Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Cockneys vs. Zombies

2012-08-06T07:29:25Z

Spanner: /* Unknown guns */

== Unknown guns ==

I´d need to see additional screenshots to be sure, but for the unknown guns I´d say: [[Browning Hi-Power]] (Unknown Handgun #2) and [[Enfield L85 rifle series|L85]] (Unknown Rifle), --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:20, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

Here is the trailer if you want to see it. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3p-giK1MU][[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 15:07, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

Thanks for the suggestion, but the trailer is in a restricted part of Youtube and I don't feel like registering. Maybe others have an idea, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 08:56, 5 August 2012 (CDT)

The first unknown rifle is definitely an L85. Unfortunately I can't help with the other unknowns yet. Is it possible that unknown rifle 2 is an AK-type rifle? It looks like there is a wooden stock, just visible next to Michelle Ryan's right arm. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== The M16 ==

Is not an A4, it looks like an A1. Non-detachable carry handle and fixed rear sight. I'd change it, but I suck at editing pages. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] 15:28, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

== Airsoft? ==

If this is shot in London, all of those weapons must be airsoft, due to gun laws.

:Blank firing weapons are legal in the UK if you have a reason to own them, such as being a film/TV armourer. There are plenty of shows and films that have been made in the UK that use real blank converted firearms. Having said that, the MP5 is an airsoft one judging by the little allen bolt on the base of the pistol grip which adjusts the motor, but using airsoft weapons in non firing scenes is commonly done so as not to require an armourer on set. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:31, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

== Type 56-1 ==

Judging from the receiver (second picture in its section), it's not a Type 56-1. It has the milling above the magazine, the sights of an AKS-74U, and the original under-folding stock, also with the ribbing on the top of the receiver. It's a 7.62 rifle, from the magazine shape, so that narrows it down to a custom-made rifle, probably based off of either the Old AK-47 or the Bulgarian AR- rifles. [[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] 15:24, 5 August 2012 (CDT)

Edit: The Bulgarian AR-M1F rifles also have the correct crimping in the stock. [[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] 15:32, 5 August 2012 (CDT)

:I'd go for a 7.62 Arsenal AR-SF:[[File:7,62ar-sf.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Arsenal AR-SF - 7.62x39mm]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:36, 5 August 2012 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==

This also is an incorrect identification. The muzzle brake looks exactly like that of an XM177. Judging from the hand-guard, an E2, or Model 629.

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-06-12T05:43:52Z

Spanner: /* Armoured Kill */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Just about everything in the military has a designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:10, 10 March 2012 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

Heck, I've got a pair of ammo boxes, and THEY have designations (M19A1). - Wantabs_Warrior38

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - S9771773G 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

More funny stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxsbTjPe2fs&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

More ordinary stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUpUFwV8fM8&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::An LRSR mission with the Barrett like the one in CoD4 would have been awesome to have in BF3. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)
:Holy crap, I thought that was a real Marine in that pic at first! :O [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

When was the screenshot that says "HK53" taken? Shouldn't that be updated with a more recent one that says "G53"? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:46, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

:You have no idea how grateful I am to see this in a neat compilation! Been looking everywhere for just these designs to no avail. -- Long Fallen 02:46, 2 March 2012 (CST)
I think the QBB-95 is a totally made up frankengun. However the core of it is actually an Enfield L85, you can tell by the vent holes on the receiver: 3 horizontal vents at the rear, then a slightly larger gap followed by two slightly smaller vents. Also visible is the raised portion on the bottom edge of the upper receiver which runs horizontally under these vent holes, and the pistol grip and trigger guard seem to match. On top it seems to be a grossly oversized M4/M16A4 detachable carry handle, and the front is anyone's guess. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:56, 2 March 2012 (CST)
::Yeah, I think you're right. It also has the generic bipod most guns in BF3 use, Harris Bipod I think it's called. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::Not important? Any info is very welcome on this site! In fact, I was wondering this myself. -- Long Fallen 02:48, 2 March 2012 (CST)

::Yeah, most definitely. We welcome clarification on any component or add-on used in the game. IMFDB's priorities are much different than those of game-based wikis. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:31, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Do you guys think we should have a section for the attachments in the game, since there are so many? For most games it wouldn't be necessary, but here there are 12 different optics, the aftermarket irons, KAC foregrip, Harris bipod, six (I think) suppressors, PEQ-2, pistol laser sight, and a tac light. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:Yes, please include the info on which flash suppressors and other accessories are being used on which guns in the screenshots (as well as an addendum at the end of the page outlining just which real-life firearm accessories are in the game). There are many of us not in the know who would like to learn about them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:32, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

That Javelin dogtag looks so cool. I can't wait to get to 500 kills with it. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:16, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== 3 Expansions planned for BF3 ==

[http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/07/battlefield-3-close-quarters-announced.aspx 3 Expansions planned for BF3]

Newest expansion has 10 new guns, what are you guys thinking/hoping they will be? I'm hoping for a USP, perhaps another pump action shotgun,maybe a TAR or a Galil, and an XM8 (wishful thinking on that last one, but they put the Jackhammer in, so why not?) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 18:20, 7 March 2012 (CST)

EDIT: Can someone fix that link please? I'm not very good at this clearly.

Me being the AR fanboy that I am, I just want a short barreled AR (10 inches prefferably). cheech98 9:28, 7 March 2012

:HK416. I'd like to see another pump shotty and some pistols at the least. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:49, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Already spoken for; the M416 is the 10" 416.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:16, 8 March 2012 (CST)

Definitely a pump shotgun, maybe an Ithica or a Mossberg with wood furniture (because with black furniture it would look too much like the 870). I would like to see an AK in 7.62x39. I was honestly appalled that BF3 didn't feature a .30 cal AK. An MP5, a Hi-Power, a CZ-75 and a SIG-Sauer would also be nice; a non-tacticool FAL, maybe an FNC (always loved that gun), a Skorpion (come on, who doesn't wanna shoot that thing in a video game), the VZ-58, the HK P7 perhaps? The HK33 would be an awesome weapon to see (although admittedly not too plausible), an Uzi (full size or mini, doesn't really matter to me), a Makarov (still common among the Russian Armed Forces, right?), the P99, and MORE REVOLVERS, DAMMIT. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 02:04, 8 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I think if they added the FAL, it wouldn't be tacticool, seeing as how the G3A3 wasn't. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:32, 11 March 2012 (PST)

:Rumours are circulating that two such weapons in Close Quarters Pack are the CZ-75 Automatic is one such pistol as a competition towards the G18 and 93R and a new sniper rifle, the CZ-750 for the Recon. Also two new vehicles rumored are the UH-60 Blackhawk and M2A2 Bradley IFV. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:07, 9 March 2012 (CST)

::But isn't the CQ Pack gonna take place entirely indoors? I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that the four maps in the next pack are going to feture entirely infantry-based, indoors combat. I guess I could see a helicopter working in there somewhere (thinking of the Airport map's chopper-gunners on MW2, I suppose) but it seems like vehicles would break the tense, room-to-room air they're going for here. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 3:56, 13 March 2012 (EST)

The HK33 is actually in the game already, in the Back to Karkand expansion pack as the 'G53' or something like that. *EDIT* Nevermind, you meant the full size rifle, my mistake...
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

It's gonna be a bunch of CQB guns, no doubt. I'd like to see (Assault Rifles) Tavor TAR-21 and the Masada. (Carbines) AKMs and the AUG A3. (Machine Guns) LSAT and the IMI Negev (Snipers) VSS Vintorez and the DSR-1 (Submachine Guns)MP5 PDW and the Colt R0991 9mm. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 16:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year, I think we are going to have our hands full identifying all them because it ain't just firearms either, they're adding a slew of vehicles with each pack as is the norm with this supposed DLC's. "Close quarters" I think is mostly gonna be all transport vehicles so I suspect, possibly Technicals, Civilian Vehicles, maybe an aerial transport helicopter/plane or light attack scout helicopters, possibly light IFV's too. Weapons are likely to be CQB in nature, I'm hoping for alot of Sub-Machine Gun's and Shotguns, the game needs more Pump Shotguns in my opinion. My general wish-list includes:

* SA58 OSW Battle Rifle and Type 95 Assault Rifle (to round out the Chinese Firepower in BF3, almost the full collection now) for the Assault Kit
* Zastava M92 (Compact AK47 Variant) and the Mark 18 Mod 0 (Ultra compact AR) and possibly the QLZ-87 Automatic Grenade Launcher (as an Anti-Vehicle Weapon, replaces the Rocket Launcher) for the Engineer
* MG3 GPMG and L86A2 (Equivalent to BF3's RPK and M27, gotta have more weapons like those for the Support Kit)
* Mark 12 SPR (American equivalent of the SKS in BF3) and CZ-750 for the Recon
* CZ-75 Auto, H&K MP5, Mossberg 590 Pump Shotgun (if it was a secondary for the Assault I'd be in love with it), TOZ-194, Valtro PM-5, Sawn Off Double Barrel, Benelli M3 Super 90, Smith & Wesson 686, SIG P226, H&K USP, QSZ-92 and FN Five SeveN are just some examples of all kit weapons I'd love to see.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:56, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:If they added the QLZ-87, it would be '''''WAY''''' overpowered. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:28, 12 March 2012 (PST)

:Dunno about the QLZ-87, man. I'd think most Battlefield players are already sick of overpowered, hand-held weapons that can auto-fire frags. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 4:03, 13 March 2012 (EST)

"There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year" 
Thirty weapons in each pack? Are you kidding me? BtK had eight weapons. And how do you know all the packs will have weapons in?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:37, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:Actually, BtK had ten weapons, and he meant at least 30 overall, he just stated it wrong. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 3:28, 9 March 2012 (PST)

They just released a new trailer that shows off some of the weapons in the first expansion pack, I only saw two but there may be more hidden throughout, the ones I saw were the L86A1 and the ACR(I assume it was the ACR, it was however called "ACW-R", I'm seeing a trend with Magpul weapons here with the PDR being renamed the PDW-R. (PS. sorry if I screwed up the formatting, this is my first entry.)
After further searching the complete list seems to be AUG, SPAS-12, ACW-R(ACR), L86A1 LSW, LSAT, MTAR-21, SCAR-L. However some people claim to have spotted the CZ-75 Auto. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 12:38, 13 March 2012 (CET)

:Good catch Spry, I watched the trailer twice carefully and found the same. I'll make it a list so it's easier to see. As with Karkand we should avoid adding anything new to the main page until we have more to add. I'm assuming the same weapon layout as Karkand until I hear something solid about that full auto CZ-75, maybe it has a stock and is a PDW? I'm also assuming what go to what classes, can't really go wrong there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:47, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

*Assault: SCAR-L (misspelled as SCARL-L; I tweeted Demize)
*Assault: AUG (variant unknown)
*Engineer: ACR (as ACW-R, like PDW-R)
*Engineer: MTAR-21
*Support: L86A1
*Support: LSAT
*Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)
*Recon: ???
*All Kit: "M5K" (don't know what it is, described as M5K tactical machine pistol)
*All Kit: SPAS-12

LIST EDITED

::I'm excited to see the AUG and the MTAR, but the ACR and SCAR-L... while I have nothing against them (in fact, I really like them) aren't they a bit... implausible? As for the LSAT... HELL. NO. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:15, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Not sure if this is on the up and up, but people are talking about the Recon weapons being the HK417 and the CZ-750 (these are were supposedly found buried in some code in a leaked beta build), and with both of these weapons having an effective range of about a thousand meters, this seems plausible. However others are claiming there will be no Recon weapons in this expansion, which seems like it would a stupid move on DICE's part. In addition people are saying the ACR will be a carbine with a 25+1 capacity, and that the SCAR-L will be the assault rifle weapon (seems odd to have a the 7.62 variant as a carbine and the 5.56 variant as an assault rifle, but oh well). Others say the second All Kit weapon will be something called an M5K? I'm not sure what that is. Again none of this was shown in the trailer, however some people claim to have seen the CZ-750 in the trailer, but it's such a poor view that it could just as well be the SV-98. Also, BF3 fans work fast, someone made these mock ups of the stats screens for the guns: http://imgur.com/a/iOlAQ [[User:Spry|Spry]] 03:08, 14 March 2012 (CET)

::::After thinking about it a bit, I'm starting to think the M5K is meant to be the MP5K, when you consider that they've renamed a couple of H&K weapons like the HK53 and the HK416, it's plausible that they had some licensing issues with H&K like they seem to have had with Magpul and Glock (No surprise there, considering how notoriously protective Glock is of their brand), So they probably just renamed it the M5K. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 10:29, 14 March 2012 (CET)
:::::Either that, or they misspelled it, like they did the SCAR-L. And if the MP5 doesn't have H&K's name in its name, they probably wouldn't have to rename it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:18, 14 March 2012 (PST)
::::::You also have to take into account that some of the weapons used by said classes in the trailer could just be kits they picked up in the middle of the battle, perhaps to throw off the assertion of which one belongs to who. I'm just glad the L86A1 is in there, finally another British weapon added, just add a Browning Hi-Power or a SIG P226 and I'm set! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:38, 14 March 2012 (CDT)Draco122

An M203A2 would be a nice addition, since the Marines don't use the M320. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:12, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

I thought this belonged here, since we're on the subject of expansions, here's a HUGE list of updates in this upcoming patch.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/#!/bf3/news/view/2832654779195992365/ [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 01:56, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

"Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)" TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:59, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

Does anyone know of any new info on the weapons in the expansion? I still have no idea of what the 2nd recon weapon is (Is recon even getting 2 weapons?). Now I'm hearing the TAR is going to be all-kit? I'm clearly confused. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== L96 Irons?! ==

What in the holy hell is that garbage?! finally a rifle with good iron sights and the stick a SECOND front sight on the end of the receiver rail... for a whopping 7" sight radius... dear god what a disappointment. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]]
:As a side note, that isn't an L96 front sight, looks more like the one that is on the G22 (German variant of the AWM). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:39, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
::Hahaha, that was my reaction too. The sights will be fixed in that big patch that should be out this month. It was on that huge notes list. EDIT: I think the BF3 rifle IS the G22; folding stock & front sight. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/G22_ohne_Schalldaempfer.jpg here][[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:55, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:AI AW G22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|G22 - .300 Winchester Magnum]]

: question on the L96, what is it chambered in? It should be .300 Winchester Magnum (I think?) but the ingame description says 7.62mmx51mm NATO... [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 00:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
::The standard Arctic Warfare is chambered in either .243 Winchester or 7.62x51mm NATO. However, the in game gun is modelled on a magnum rifle (can tell by the size of the magazine) which is chambered in .300 Winchester of .338 Lapua. The caliber is correct for the name of the gun, but wrong for the model it actually is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:00, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
:Keep in mind most of the calibres are wrong for the Back To Karkand guns, like the QBs being 5.45mm [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:40, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Shortcuts ==

I was on the 360 Marketplace this week, looking for new Add-ons for any of my games when I came across several for Battlefield 3. They are class specific and cost 560 Microsoft points apiece or you can get the ultimate bundle which includes Air, Ground and Co-Op 'shortcuts' for a whopping 3200 points. What a shortcut entails is basically a free pass to getting ALL of the specific kits weapons, attachments and gadgets thereby bypassing the experience system if someone has the credits.

In short, this is a noob's wetdream. Personally, I think they should rename the Ultimate Shortcut Bundle to the Ultimate Lazy Bastards Bundle. Thankfully all of the shortcuts have been getting pretty low reviews. Thoughts? --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 16:28, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

:Wait, it includes weapon attachments? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:24, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Every other game is dumbed down for casual gamers to blow through in an hour. Why is this any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Shortcuts are gay. 'nuff said. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 17:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm not too happy about shortcuts either, but did you really have to use gay as a way to insult it? [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42
:Sorry, I forgot gay means "happy" --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:27, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

== SPAS-12 = Pump-Action? ==

I was watching the part of the Close-Quarters Expansion Pack trailer where it showed the SPAS-12, and it looked like it was operating in pump-action mode. Is anyone else disappointed by this? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

I'm actually quite glad, I was quite disappointed with the lack of pump-action shotguns in game. I guess they could say it's an SAS-12 so it's a pump-action only variant in real life. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42

I don't really care, I want more pump actions, but another tube fed semi action shotty too. --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:40, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

:Same here, it's not technically wrong, and since we need at least one more pump shotgun, I'm fine with it. I also think they went with the SPAS-12 because most pump shotguns like 870s, Mossbergs, Ithicas, etc, looks very similar. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:20, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

::True, but they could have done the Tactical version of the Benelli Nova or SuperNova. They look unique enough. Or they could have done the Kel-Tec KSG, except without continuous fire of its two magazines (I'm looking at you, MW3).

What's wrong with a pump shotgun with 12 shots (*EDITED* the Kel-tec KSG)? The street sweeper (DAO-12) has 12 shots AND is semi-auto, then there's the USAS-12 with 10+1 and FULL-auto, a pump action with 12 or 12+1 capicity wounldn't be much of a big deal. - Wantabe_Warrior38

:You think the SPAS-12 has 12 shots? It only has an 8-round magazine. *EDITED* No, when I said "continuous fire", I meant in MW3, you continually fire as if it automatically switched its magazines, instead of actually having to manually switch it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

::Pretty sure he meant the KSG. And yeah, the SuperNova looks pretty sweet, I like the trigger guard :) EDIT: Are there any pump-action mag-fed shotguns? I can't think of any, but that'd be pretty cool, like the M1014 and Saiga-12K. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:30, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
:::There are conversion kits to convert popular pump guns to magazine fed, but they look odd with the magazine being further forward than normal, under the existing magazine tube. There are pump actions that are made with box magazines like the [[Valtro PM5 Shotgun]] series, or the [[Hawk shotgun series]]. There is also the [[Franchi SPAS-15]] which is semi/pump like the SPAS-12. I have also seen Saigas that have been converted to pump action. These are just off the top of my head, there are probably other, more obscure weapons out there. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:47, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

== KH2002 Magazine ==

Is it using the 20 round stanag magazine? Looks like it. If it is, ill mention it on the kh2002 portion of the page
EoghanG93 22-4-12

The in game magazine capacity is 30. So I doubt it would be, someone would've picked up on that mistake by now. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 01:24, 27 April 2012 (CET)

== RPK Mag ==
So, it seems someone screwed up during the development of the patch and now the RPK has an extended mag option that gives it 199+1 rounds :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 11 April 2012 (CDT)
:I think it was a DICE only attachment pre-patch --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 20:02, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

:Doubtful, the MG36 and the QBB are mysteriously missing their "extended mag" attachments, leading to the unfortunate scene of a perpetually capped off Beta C-Mag. :S -- Long Fallen 02:02, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

:The QBB is only supposed to have 75, so that was good, I think they just forgot to up the default capacity of the MG36 when they removed the attachements. Also, those two also got a heavy barrel option, and the AS Val got a 30 round mag option. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:15, 17 April 2012 (CDT)

== Donya Fortress Trailer ==

See this for the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LipJK6nxEw&feature=g-u-u

Weapons seen (Confirmed):
*MTAR-21
*SPAS-12 (fired in pump action)
*AUGA3
*ACR (Called ACW-R)
*JNG-90
*L86 (Seen at 1:14)

Weapons seen (Unconfirmed):
*LSAT Machine Gun (Used by Engineer at 0:29 and seen in killfeed)
*Unknown compact AK variant (Seen at 1:11, carried by Engineer, looks different from AKS-74U)
*Unknown long barrelled Revolver (Also seen at 1:11, carried by a Support)

Thats all I can spot [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

M417 appears in the Killfeed. [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/File:M417.jpg Sauce.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:32, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:I'm betting it's the semi-auto sniper for the recon kit [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:49, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::The fact it's seen being used by a Recon kit at around 1:05 with an EoTech and a suppressor lends credence to the idea.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:54, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:::Looks like a standard 74U to me, but that pistol doesn't really look like anything. I found the MP5K, it's at 0:50. As far as I can tell this just confirms the SPAS-12 is pump, the MP5K is the SMG, and the other sniper is the JNG-90, which I'd never heard of before. Also, they updated the "AUG" to "AUG A3" since the last trailer :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:45, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::::Yeah, I'm pretty content with the weapons selection now that we've pretty much seen all of them. I'm kind of hoping that the SPAS-12 is both pump-action and semi-auto, though.
:::::From the press release: ''•Earn 10 new weapons and bring them back to the base game including: 1.AUG Assault Rifle, 2.SCAR Assault Rifle, 3.ACW-R Carbine, 4.MTAR-21 Carbine, 5.M417 Sniper Rifle, 6.JNG-90 Sniper Rifle, 7.L86LSW Machine Gun, 8.LSAT Machine Gun, 9.M5K Tactical Machine Pistol, 10.PAS-12 Shotgun'' [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 06:18, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

:Good, the SCAR-L is an AR and the ACR is a carbine, that's what I was hoping for, and the only thing we didn't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:29, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== SIG SG 553 ==

Do you ever see the charging handle of the SG 553, as I'm wondering whether it is genuinely an SG 553 or a mislabelled SG 552 (charging handle is the only deffinite difference). The gun picture is actually a mislabelled SG 552. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:20, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

== MP7A1 ==

No matter how many times I look at, or just think of, the MP7 rounds ''this'' big I have hilarity induced seizures. Thanks for the unending joy, but I am suing you for giving me epilepsy. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 11:35, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

...what?
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 01:13, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

One of the screen shots for the MP7 shows the reload animation without a magazine, so the animation looks like the player is gesturing how big the bullets would be.--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 01:26, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

:It's pretty funny, as are a lot of the other ones. Whoever does those captions, I don't know if it's everyone or one really funny person, but thank you :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:52, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

== Missing Screenshots ==

So I noticed we're still missing a in game screenshots of some of the BtK weapons. I loaded up fraps and snapped a few of the ones I have unlocked. I'm missing the QBU-88 QBZ-95B the L96 and the MK3A1, but I have a few good shots of the rest. Screwed up catching images of some of the charging animations though. Also, the charging animation on the L85 looks like it's just smacking the cheek rest. Photo album is here: [http://imgur.com/a/j38Rv] I'll let someone more senior that me decide which photos to add, it's been a while since I edited a wiki. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:29, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
:That is correct for an L85, there is a bolt release catch underneath the cheek rest on the left side of the gun. When you empty a magazine the bolt will lock back, so you just need to change the magazine and push the catch up to chamber the first round. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:11, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks for that Commando, info on the L85 seems hard to find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:56, 30 April 2012 (CDT)

== PP-19 ==

Since the patch hsa changed the PP-19to be chambered in the 9x18mm Makarov, would it be at all possible to have the screenshot of the loadout screen to represent the change? It currently shows it pre-patch where its still in the 9x19mm Parabellum. I'd do it myself but I only have it for 360 and I don't know how. Thanks. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:58, 13 May 2012 (CDT)

== How do we know the M1911 in this game is an M-45 MEU(SOC)? ==

The real life picture provided shows the pistol with U.S. Army markings. How do we know the in-game M1911 is actually an MEUSOC?

:"It is a standard M1911A1 with a three-hole trigger, a Springfield slide, commander-style hammer, beavertail grip safety, Pachmayr rubber grips, and uses 8 round magazines." That's an exact match to the 1st-gen MEUSOC pisotls. As for why it has army markings, it was probably built on a standard Army M1911A1, but I don't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:57, 16 May 2012 (CDT)

== Close Quarters Weapons ==

So I bought Premium, and I've unlocked a few of the guns. Uploaded some screens, and I'm gonna start adding them into the page.

I have the SCAR-L, AUG-A3, ACR, HK417, SPAS-12, L86A2. I can't unlock the MP5K or the JNG-90 until the maps are unlocked on PC, but I'll add the LSAT and MTAR-21 screens when I unlock them. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:05, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

Added missing screens of the L85A2, MG36, QBB-95, LSAT, MTAR-21. Still have the QBU-88 sniper rifle and the L96/G22 to add. Too tired to add them now. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:21, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

== CQ Weapons Comments ==

I was disappointed to see the ACR in the carbine kit although it's the full length version with a fixed stock. I was hoping they'd put the SCAR-L in the carbine kit instead, as the SCAR-H already is there.
I Also liked if the HK417 was in the assault kit also as a Battle rifle. THe G3A3 is the only battle rifle in the Assault kit.
Instead of the HK417 being in recon they could have put in a modernized Saiga 308 or the Mk12 SPR.
Apart from that I rather do like the DLC and the weapons. [[User:EoghanG93|EoghanG93]] 10:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)
:I think they put the SCAR-L in the Assault kit because they needed to do a little balancing with the SCAR-H and -L. If the lower-powered one was the one with the shorter barrel, and therefore range, the higher-powered one would be chosen, whether it was in the same kit or not, because of its higher power and range. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:25, 9 June 2012 (PST)

The ACR is apparently using the 6.5 Grendel round, if the Battlelog weapon profile is anything to go by. -- Long Fallen 15:53, 8 June 2012 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's probably why it has a 26-round magazine instead of a 30-rounder. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:34, 9 June 2012 (PST)

== L86= A1 or A2? ==

On the page, it says that the L86 in-game is an A1, mislabeled as an A2. However, if that was because of the charging handle, I've heard of L85A1's and L86A1's upgraded in the field to A2 retaining their old A1 charging handle. Is there anything else that differentiates the L86A1 and A2? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:21, 9 June 2012 (PST)
:"upgraded in the field"
:You can do that? Last time I checked most of the A2 upgrades were armourer / factory level changes that can't be done by the average squaddie in the field. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:58, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::That's what I heard, maybe a gunsmith in the field upgraded it for the rest of the people in his squad/platoon/other organisation level in the military. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:59, 10 June 2012 (PST)

The L86 has the same charging handle as the L85 in game, if that makes a difference. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 06:04, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

Looks like it's missing the guard around the magazine catch that was added to the A2. Also, I don't know what the hell is going on [[:File:Bf3_l86a2_bolt.jpg|here.]] It's not "slapping the bolt catch" because A. The SA80 bolt release is on the other side of the weapon, and B. you can't slap it anyway. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:48, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
:That is "slapping the bolt catch", as there is a bolt release catch on the left side of the weapon just above the fire selector (where he is slapping). On SA80 weapons there is a catch on the right side behind the ejection port which you use to hold the bolt open, but there is a separate release catch on the left side. If you empty a magazine and the bolt locks back, to reload the weapon you just have the change the magazine and press the catch up to release the bolt and chamber the first round. You are correct that it doesn't have the shield around the mag release indicating that it is based on an A1 (or an inaccurate airsoft A2). Also, there were no field upgraded A2 weapons, the upgrade was carried out in a factory by H&K. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:34, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::Ah, than I guess it is an A1. Thanks, Commando. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 2:00, 10 June 2012 (PST)
:::So it's an A1 with an A2 charging handle? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:29, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Does anyone have a shot where you see the charging handle, as there are none on the main page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:00, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Edit: I just searched on youtube for some vids of it and it is very hard to see the charging handle clearly, but it is visible when you vault over things and it appears to be a standard round A1 handle rather than the comma shaped A2 handle. In fact now that I'm thinking about it, the A2 flash hider pokes upwards higher than the top of the receiver, so if it was an A2 handle you should be able to see it from the regular view anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

::::: The L86 is an A1, I think? The charging handle is straight, and not the crescent/comma shaped one from the L85A2. You can see it clearly here. [[File:l86 a1 charge handle.jpg|400px|thumb|none]] [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 17:38, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
That confirms it then, just a straight L86A1. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

I'm glad that DICE seems to at least understand the difference between the A1 and A2, because the L86 in the trailer was called L86A1, and they might have changed it to A2 to rid it of the horrid reputation of the A1. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:08, 10 June 2012 (PST)

== Armoured Kill ==

New info out! Can anyone help on IDs? The AC-130 is obvious, and the Quad appears to be the BC2 one. There's a pair of Mobile Artillery, and a pair of "Tank Destroyers". I'm not that good with vehicles, but I see a tank that looks like a T-52? T-72? Something Soviet. Also, what looks like a Stryker with a huge cannon. US Mobile Artillery? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:35, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/823-ac-130-not-driveable/

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/826-battlefield-3-dlc-armored-kill-g4tv/

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/822-ac-130-plus-bandar-desert-screens/

:I think the Styker is the M1128 Mobile Gun system (unless there's another Stryker which carries a big gun), so I think that would make it one of the 'tank destroyers'. I don't think the tank is a T-72, the hull doesn't look right. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Top Gear

2012-05-27T19:59:38Z

Spanner: /* Jeremy shooting cars */

This article should be deleted being that it is a documentary. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:49, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that. It's a British variety show that focuses on equal aspects entertainment and humor, but also factual information concerning the cars. If you've seen the show you'll know what I'm talking about, it really is the farthest thing from a documentary. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 22:54, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:even then so it is a nonfictional item, so it falls out of the scope of IMFDB. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:01, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
:: If that's the case, then all [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Category:Documentary these] pages need to be deleted as well. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:19, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
That is correct --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:31, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Top gear Ground Force ==

in Top gear Ground Force Jeremy uses an Over/Under shotgun for some light gardening

== TV Tropes ==

I was looking through the '''Imperial Storm Trooper Marksmanship Academy''' section and found this mentioned. ''"A Series 13 episode of Top Gear saw the British Armed Forces firing at a stationary Mitsubishi Evo 7 from only a few hundred yards away with machine guns, missing the majority of the time. The tracer rounds that went astray were enough to light parts of the surrounding area on fire." '' Is this a valid criticism? Or is that about all the accuracy you could expect form L7's and Browning M2's? [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]] 16:59 22/2/11
: Here is the video of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAPRTAksr2w . When they are actually shooting at the stationary Evo, they seem to have pretty good accuracy, but the whole thing is staged, and I imagine that the majority of the tracers are added in post, particularly when it is being driven around the firing zone. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:13, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

== Newly added AK ==

[[Image:Tg_s17ep1_ak47.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Based on the general look of it and that mold line along the top of the nearest gun's handguard: airsoft guns? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:20, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

== Interceptors ==
What about the firearms that appear in their mock 70's-detective show opening sequence titled "The Interceptors". They use, as far as I can tell, a Walther, a Luger, a Sten and a Colt Detective Special.
:: At one point a baddie is shown using a P38 as well, although it locks back after the first shot, but post editting showed it shooting again, ie muzzle flash, although this may have been somewhat deliberate as the whole sequence was spoofing 70's cop shows.

:: Jeremy or Jason Clarkson's "signature" weapon is a Walther P38, and James or James Steed's "signature" weapon is a Sten Sub Machine Gun, Richard or Roger St. Hammond's signature weapon was his hands, as hes a "karate master".

== Albania Special ==

During the Albania Special, the guys "rob" a bank, and come out with handguns. I have a capture from the episode and it seems to be a Tokarev TT-33, but im not entirely sure.

Considering where they were and what they were doing, i think its reasonable to assume its a Tokarev.

[http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Hitokiri_Gensai/vlcsnap-2011-09-22-12h49m39s45.png Screen Cap from Episode 16x03]

the location of the rear sight and the shape of the trigger seem to suggest it.

==Jeremy shooting cars==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAiXRKQffQ0

Jeremy was seen firing an Over and Under Shotgun, a SPAS-12 shotgun, an unknown General Purpose machine gun and a Carl Gustav Recoiless Rifle.

:The GPMG is the L7 GPMG, the British version of the FN MAG. It is in the fire-support set up, mounted on a tripod and with the stock removed. Is this clip actually from Top Gear, or is it from one of Jeremy Clarkson's DVDs? [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-05-02T15:42:55Z

Spanner: /* Wow... */

'''MAIN PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Only ''officially released'' images will be permitted. Leaked images, even if publicised elsewhere, are not permitted. This rule is not negotiable.'''

'''TALK PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Do not post lists of weapons you hope to see in the game. They will be deleted.'''

== The Newest Joke? ==
Why put up a IMFDB page of this game when it looks clearly like a waste of money

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks to just be like a space gun... It "resembles" a XM8 and an ACR, but looks like the SCAR from Crysis. It's just a future weapon. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:40, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

To be more specific,it appears to be the Malaysian variant of the XM8,the Malaysian variant has no built in scope like on the ones designed for the U.S Army,but a rail instead.however it has extra features of weapons such as the ACR, which Treyarch probably to give their own artistic touch to make it look unique and futuristic.[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Call Of Recon: Ghost Ops --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Well, I've given up on the series now that being on top of five grenades when they go off doesn't kill people.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

:Givern how CoD does with real weapons, watching them making up weapons should be eight kinds of hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:10, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

its been confirmed to be set in the year 2025,i would imagine a mixture of real weapons,and Treyarch-created mashups will be included[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Come On ==

There is NOTHING warranting a page for this yet. All of you fanboys need to drop your cocks and have a little patience. Would any IMFDB mods put up with this for any other page or project with the same amount of leaked content, being 1, maybe 2 usable pictures? No way; this whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If there's nothing concrete worth putting on the main page, stick to the Treyarch forums. It's insane how quickly the COD community jumped onto it on IMFDB. It's fucking preposterous to discuss ONE PICTURE for a WHOLE GAME THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED YET. Please, fanboys, calm down, and don't get ahead of yourselves. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Finally someone who agrees with me. --[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I can't disagree [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:18, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

The game has been officially announced, there are several pictures on CallofDuty.com --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:47, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Plus, a trailer is coming out today [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:29, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Trailer released, and I can already see inclusions in the form of the M249. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 19:21, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Weapon Spots ==

Weapon spots from the trailer that I found in the new trailer: at 0:30 there is a M134 Minigun (future-ized) mounted on a four legged combat drone, 0:43 there is a tank drone that appears to have a Metal Storm weapon mounted on its left (our right), 1:09 there is a future pistol (seems unrelated to any real world firearm), 1:11 there is a future-ized XM8, 1:18 there is an M16 (which model can't tell though length suggest it is a full length barrel and has 20 round magazine), 1:27 there what appears to be an M249 SAW (or M240), 1:31 there is a soldier with a balaclava firing a bullpup short barreled weapon that bears resemblance to the QBZ-95, at 1:31 or 1:32 (very easy to miss) there is a soldier being blown away holding an AK variant and by the looks of the handguard and flash hider it is an AN-94, at 1:34 in horseback solders are armed with WWII bolt action rifles, at 1:36 the technical is armed with a Dshk hmg, 1:44 hard to make out but rider on the right has an AK pattern weapon, likely an AK-47 since it looks like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, 1:48 unknown shotgun. That's all I found for now. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 21:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:I have an intuition that the M16 might (and I have empathize this, ''might'') be an A1 variant or a faux XM16 judging solely from silhouette of the upper receiver. The SAW apparently has an Mk 48 Mod 1 styled heat shield and handguard but that doesn't really mean anything, considering how the franchise loves to mix and match different variants. Weapon at 1:32, on the other hand, is ''definitely'' an AN-94. At least in aesthetic terms.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:03, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:: Isn't it "Kriss USA" instead of "TDI" now?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 08:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

==Designated Arguing/Complaining Area==
Before this discussion page turns to chaos like all the other CoD talk pages, let's open up a designated complaint zone. I know many people want to offer their negative opinions about the game, so if you don't have any real discussion topics please post in subheadings here. Hopefully this will allow people who want to actually discuss the game rather than arguing or whining to avoid these comments and have an actual discussion.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

===Wow...===
I'll start off by saying the obvious- this game looks stupid. I mean, why jump from the 60's to the 2020's? I could see the futuristic idea that they were trying for, but this looks like a Ghost Recon rip-off. I have just lost what little respect I had for Treyarch. As more details become availiable, I might change my mind, but first impressions are not good. As with any game, if it is fun I will play it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

I've lost respect for the Call of Duty franchise after Infinity Ward broke up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

After at least one failed Soviet aggression in the late 60s, failed invasion of the Eastcoast US, ''failed'' (third time's the charm, right?) invasion of continental Europe within the last three games alone, you'd think the US at least would just get used to getting attacked on a major scale by this point.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:09, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:Well they have, it's pretty clear from MW2 that Russia tries to nuke the US so often in this universe that they didn't even bother with a counter-launch since that would just encourage them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:11, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I can't believe how generic they managed to make their new take on the series. Evil robots, mechs on four legs and choppers with unnecesserly many features. It's basically the same as every futuristic game. On top of it the game looks awful, name doesn't make sense, it looks more over-the-top than MW3. Could Treyarch have mistaken May 1 for April 1? This either is a joke, or will become one.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 05:46, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

What the hell were Treyarch thinking? I was seriously hoping too see what happened to Hudson, Weaver and Mason in Operation Charybdis and maybe if we would get to see how Price started his career. It is often better to go back to basics than too go forward complications. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:What made you so sure that Price was going to be in this game?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:45, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:From what I've read on CoD wiki and heard, 1/3 of the game will take place in the 80s and the rest in 2025--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 09:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

: @ The Wierd It - the 'intel' at the ending of the final story mission of Black Ops suggest that Mason is being hunted by an SAS team in South Africa lead by a young operative called 'Jonathan' which many people have taken to mean a very young Captain Price [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Dragoon

2012-02-24T10:41:48Z

Spanner:

I'm not 100% sure this qualifies as can't tell if it is actually going to be properly released, but did some caps anyway. Also, from the trailer I suspect that all of these guns are actually replicas/airsoft with miming and CGI muzzle flashes. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:49, 23 February 2012 (CST)
:Is it a short film or a feature? I can't find the running time on IMDb. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:56, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::I can't tell, the facebook page and the official web page are pretty uninformative. While trawling through the facebook page for info I came across [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=346543265377945&set=a.321312441234361.90388.302181089814163&type=1&permPage=1 this photo] which has annoyed the hell out of me. First off he is wearing both Royal Marine Commando shoulder titles but with an SAS beret. Secondly, berets are never worn on operations like this. Thirdly, he is wearing it like an absolute twat, particularly for a film which claims "The British soldiers in the film are members of the 40 Commando, the elite unit created by James Bond author Ian Fleming during World War Two". Fourthly, the rifle appears to be an inaccurate airsoft replica as it is an L22A1 but with the round charging handle rather than the A2 style charging handle it should have. Lastly, the pistol he is carrying in his holster is one of those mini AEG airsoft guns that look like something out of a cartoon. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:18, 23 February 2012 (CST)
:::It wouldn't be the first time the creator of a short film tried to shoehorn his or her film onto the site. At least there are posters available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 20:52, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::Plus I seriously doubt any of the kit is issue; it all looks off-the-shelf to me; hence why it's Multicam or clone rather than MTP (Jesus Christ, people. DPM gear isn't that expensive to get hold of). Plus all the ACOGs are mounted wrong. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:16, 24 February 2012 (CST)
:::From the way the handguard appears to be molded onto the barrel, the ACOG and under-barrel torch, I'm willing to be that these are those incredibly cheap single-shot spring airsoft guns, similar to the ones used in Doomsday (only without the Union Jack stickers). Same goes for the L22, it looks a lot like a very cheap 'springer' airsoft gun I've seen. One thing that's confusing me - [https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=321312561234349&set=a.321312441234361.90388.302181089814163&type=3&theater this photo] - what is she armed with? It could just be me, but that doesn't look like anything I recognise. Is it just a generic 'gun' prop, or is it a replica of something real? --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-29T21:13:16Z

Spanner: /* Back to Karkand */

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-09-03T13:36:58Z

Spanner: /* Cheeky machine gun gameplay */

==Moved from main page==

These are the weapons from the leaked info which are of dubious authenticity and need confirming. Only officially confirmed weapons on the main page from now on.

''Information leaked to the website Kotaku.com included screenshots claimed to be of some of the weapon models for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3. Most weapons appear to have multiple configurations and attachments, however at present the authenticity of these shots has not been confirmed.''

=== Walther P99 ===

[[Image:WaltherP99 twotoneA.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Walther P99 with silver slide - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Walter_p99_01.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:MW3-P99-Light.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|P99 with pistol light.]]

=== MP-412 REX ===
As in the games Battlefield and Red Steel, there is an appearance of the Russian .357 Magnum revolver, the MP-412 REX. The MP-412 REX was a double action revolver with a break open frame and automatic ejector. It was developed for commercial Export by Izhevsk Mechanical Plant but never went into full production due to lack of interest. Yet another firearm that was never actually sold anywhere (except for a few prototypes in Europe) that appears in a Video Game.

[[Image:Mp-412-1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MP-412 REX - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:Mp412_pistol.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

=== SIG-Sauer P226 ===
An SIG-Sauer P226 pistol is seen holstered to an SAS operative's vest. This is accurate, as it is used by the British SAS in real life.

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Sas lmg.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The pistol is holstered to the center of the vest.]]

=== Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion ===
The [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion]] is a weapon also seen in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Because of its black pistol grip, it looks like the Yugoslavian made Skorpion.

[[Image:CZ_Vz.61.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Skorpion Sa. Vz.61 with 20 round magazine - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Yugoslav_Model_61_Skorpion.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Yugoslavian made Model 61(i) Skorpion distinguishable by it's black pistol grip - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Skorpion screenshot layout 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Skorpion model.]]

=== HK MP5A2N ===
The Standard MP5 returns from [[Call of Duty 4]] with an A2/A4-style stock, instead of the A3/A5 Collapsible stock. The forearm has also been replaced with a Knights Armament Rail Forearm.

[[Image:Mp5 new2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[MP5A2]] model.]]

=== FN SCAR-L ===
The [[FN SCAR-L]] is a new weapon shown in the screenshots. While it was only shown used by a soldier on the multiplayer background of [[Modern Warfare 2]] and wasn't usable, the version shown is a player model, and would probably take the place of the SCAR-H. The model has black scheme, flip-up iron sights and 5.56x45mm NATO Magpul. Note that the rear sight, although still cropped, is oriented correctly, while [[Modern Warfare 2]]'s SCAR-H rear sight was placed backwards.

[[Image:FN_SCAR-L_(Standard).jpg|thumb|none|450px|Third-Generation [[FN SCAR-L]] - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:Scar light 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The SCAR-L model]]

=== FN FAL ===
The [[FN FAL]] is a weapon also seen in [[Modern Warfare 2]]. This is the same model, featuring combination of the [[FN FAL]] and the [[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]].

[[Image:FN_FAL_50_00.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL]] 50.00 - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]] - 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[FN FAL]] is in the hands of the character in the top middle frame and in the hands of the characters in the bottom right two frames.]]

=== Short Barreled AK Variant ===
Seen above in the top row, second from the right and the first and second from left frames on the bottom row. Likely a successor to the AKS-74U "SMG" in Call of Duty 4 and Modern Warfare 2, but, nevertheless it's still an assault rifle.

[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Remington Semi-Automatic Sniper System ===

[[Image:Remington rsass.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ===
The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle|Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle]] is one of the weapons seen in the screenshots. This version is the Mod 0 version rather than the Mod 1 version in [[Modern Warfare 2]] as evidenced by the SAGE collapsible stock, rather than the previous AR buffer tube type stock with Magpul CTR/MOE stock.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] - 7.62x51 NATO, with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip.]]
[[Image:M14ebr.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] model.]]

=== Barret M107 ===

[[Image:Berrett M107.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Barrett M107 long range sniper rifle - .50 BMG. Noteworthy is the holes in the lower part of the buttstock and the rail that runs along the top spine of the rifle.]]
[[Image:Barrett m82.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Armsel Striker ===

[[Image:SWD-StreetSweeper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Striker iw5.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
=== Kel-Tec KSG ===

[[File:Kel-Tec KSG Shotgun Oleg Volk 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Ksg.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Heckler & Koch M320 ===
The [[Heckler & Koch M320]] grenade launcher is a new weapon (or more correctly, attachment) shown in the screenshots. This could be a replacement for the [[M203 grenade launcher]] as used in both previous installments, but nothing is confirmed at this time.

[[Image:XM320_stock_extended.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Heckler & Koch M320]] - 40mm, with optional telescoping stock.]]
[[Image:M320 grenade launcherh.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[Heckler & Koch M320#M320|M320]] model, attached to an [[M4A1]] carbine with XPS Holographic sight and suppressor.]]

==Discussion==

Oh God, another Call of Duty. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -[[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)

I see a P90 lying on the floor in the premiere trailer, in what appears to be a subway station. Appears to follow the MW2 Design, with the iron sights instead of a built in red dot. -[[User:Timaman]] May 24, 2011 22:09 PM GMT+0

http://timaman.deviantart.com/art/Possible-P90-in-Mw3-210170147

I noticed what appears to be a holstered Colt 1911 on the UMP wielding SAS members right leg, you can see it just above where the picture finishes, at the bottom. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:08, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

:I saw that too, hopefully the MW1 1911 comes back, it better, but it also looks like it could be a P226 with wierd lighting. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I hope they put an ejection port on the M4 this time.

== Title ==

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

==Issues==

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate [[User:SeanWolf]]

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

:My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.
:You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

I might be the only one, but whats up with that weird aimpoint/ holographic sight combo on the M4? is that even possible?
: Yes, it is. EoTech makes [http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=50&cat=1 optics] specifically designed to be used in conjunction with their holosights. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:59, 28 May 2011 (CDT)
cool, I never knew that. Thanks

==Winchester Model 1887==
What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - [[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.
:Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.
:I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

::Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes ''Black'' look positively restrained. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other '''sensible''' new age weapons. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
:My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::In what way is it outdated? Modern lever actions fire faster than bolt actions, can use non-tube magazines (even detachable ones) and thus fire pointed bullets, and are of comparable accuracy to bolt actions. Aside from issues with firing while prone (which are hardly impossible to deal with) they're not outdated in any sense of the term, certainly not to the extent a flintlock is. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:30, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the issue of firing when prone is -highly- critical when compared to how modern-day bolt actions are used, mostly/all by snipers who fire from the prone position frequently. They are outdated as service rifles, like I said earlier in comparison to semi-automatic gas/recoil driven weapons. The main revolution of lever action was the rapid-fire aspect and magazine capacity (Compared to single-shot/clip-fed weapons of the era), which have all been outclassed by miles in reference to modern semi-automatic rifles. Like I said,''' agree to disagree''', not going anywhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::No, it's definately an issue of lack of will to do it rather than any technical inferiority. Armies are used to bolt actions in their manual rifles and don't see the need to change to weapons that have ''different'' advantages and disadvantages but don't offer a substantial overall improvement. It's hard enough persuading them to adopt things that ''do'' offer a substantial improvement, after all. Also, I have no idea why you keep bringing up semi-autos, not everything is a marksman rifle. I was never suggesting using a manual action weapon as a replacement for anything other than a ''different'' manual action. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Agreeing to disagree, could refute what you said with evidence/concepts but it's not going to do anything. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==Barrett M107/M82 Error==

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== Gunz ==

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)
:Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence.
I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System.
One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

:The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

:You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series ''has'' done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: The weapon at 0:55 looks like an AUG to me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, or a Tavor. The barrel looks too thick to be either though, might be a flashlight/suppressor? [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:10, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==HELL YEAH==

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

: Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

==The tossed magazine doesnt look right==
In the newest trailer I noticed that a soldier tosses a magazine to the player but it's easy to see that you cant see any bullets in the top of it. I don't know that much about M4A1 magazines. Is there a door that opens when it's inserted into the rifle, did the devs over-look this or what?

: Probably due to either being lazy or being an early build of the game. IW's track record is so-so for magazines, on a normal AR-15 magazine, there are two lips at the top of the magazine and the rounds feed through them. The magazine will spend most of the time in game, being lodged in the weapon, so it's not really that big of a deal to me personally. But you are correct, the magazine model doesn't look 100% accurate. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:06, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. The real world acuracy and high detail in the MW games is what sets them apart from all the other games based on modern combat. I hope that was just an eary build.

Sorry Anon, but no, if you want real world accuracy play something like ARMA, or even Battlefield, but not COD. The weapons either aren't handled properly, or have thing on them that would never be, or are mounted wrong, or are used by people who never would, or have stats that don't work for the real weapon at all, or are out of scale, and they STILL havn't added +1 in the chamber. For better or for worse COD is a playable action movie, and the graphics literally havn't been changed since COD4. I can't really comment on 1, 2, or 3, but MW fits your description well, it's not a military simulator, but it was quite good. WAW was okay, but it was pretty much just the COD4 Marine missions for the whole game, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot etc. MW2's singleplayer was good but not amazing, there was too much that was just a little too far fetched, and a few glaring plotholes. MW was like a war movie (Saving Private Ryan/Black Hawk Down/etc.), but MW2 is an action movie, that's why it wasn't up to par with MW in my opinion. BO had potential for a good singleplayer, but the had a serious, conspiracy filled plot, and tried to make it a bad ass action movie at the same time, and those don't go together very well. COD games have good potential, but it always seems to get wasted. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

==Plot Holes==
So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

::The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if ''very'' unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Guns ==

I like the way few of currently known guns are going. AK-47 looks a lot more like rifle that Russian Army may use some time. It has cheapest Crane Stock and not one of most espensive ones (Yeah, Vltor one is expensive as fuck) and handguard is basically one ris rail on each side with rail covers. Not full plastic handguard. G36 is plain and easy which is both suprising and awesome. M4 seems like its pretty cheap too. I like that Czech Vzor 61 is back, hope it will be in hands of Czech partisans. Anyway, few guns are ugly like fuck. For example that winchester or MP5.

Well, game will suck like all of those "new" CoDs from World At War to Black Ops. But it will be atleast a bit interesting. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:04, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: I don't understand what you mean by "cheap". There's nothing wrong with Crane stocks... The AK in MW3 doesn't even have a Crane stock, it's a standard LE stock, which is a good stock. You don't need a Vltor stock to shoot a weapon accurately. AK rails don't have to be crazy railed hanguards like in MW2, which was largely inspired by an airsoft weapon. See Travis Haley's one-off MAG-K from Magpul, using the Ultimak rail system. The cost of a component doesn't effect how it behaves in game, or in real life for that matter, it's reliability and effectiveness that count. What's wrong with the handguard with a rail on each side with rail covers? That's generally what rail systems are. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:13, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Yes, i know. Thats what i meant. Any army on world (especially Russian) would hardly put shitload of ris rifles on their weapon and overpriced stocks. By cheap, i meant cheaper than MW2.

: I still don't understand what you mean by cheaper. How? Like, in real world money costs? In aesthetic looks? The Russians are putting different rail systems in their modern AK's, see my AK-200 link from Firearmblog. Russia has arguably one of the most powerful and modern militaries in the world, what would discourage them from placing RIS rails on their service rifles like everyone else? Tapco, the company that makes the rail system and stock adapter for the AK in MW2 is one of the cheaper companies in terms of quality and price, Tapco still makes good stuff regardless. Just confused as to what you mean by cheap. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:09, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: No one else ticked off that in any of the videos or demos present, there have been NO new guns? Granted, the AA-12 has a new skin, and so does the MP5, but no drum mags for the AA-12? And to be fair, I preferred the MP5K. But seriously, in MW2's Cliffhanger demo, there was tonnes of new weapons and attachments shown, like the ACR, FAMAS and the new AK. But so far, the only "new" guns that were leaked in images haven't been shown. I'm really disappointed in that. [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 12:12, 14 June 2011

== Pistols ==

Am I the only one completely pumped for the P99 and P226? Hopefully both are usable and rendered well. I tend to get more excited over the pistols rather than assault rifles in video games.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:15, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Nope, you're not the only one. I'm ''slightly'' disappointed that they seem to be going with the 1st-gen model, but otherwise, I'm hoping for the execution, so to speak, to be superb and the rest of the game to be worth 60 bucks. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 23:25, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking forward to seeing the SIG pistol too. Always had a soft spot for German guns. I hope it's usable and not just part of a character model ... [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 23:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Looking forward to both, and more. Preferably the USP and M1911. M1911 was epic in MW1 and in MW2 they took it away from multiplayer, and in Black Ops they made it black in singleplayer and chrome in multiplayer for some silly reason. Hopefully they got the silver/chrome out of their systems with the P99 already. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:36, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Part of me says "Yes! A game that you can fire a P99 and it's NOT James Bond." Another part of me says that Hand Guns, unless automatic, serve no perpise in todays FPS world. Oh I miss the Golden days.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:55, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:That's funny, since I PWN most people in FPS' who have Assault rifles or Submachine guns with my '''semi-automatic''' handguns, especially in MW1 with my USP45 :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:53, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::I agree, COD4's USP was amazing. In COD4 handguns were how game handguns should be. Most people suck with them, but if you get good with pistols, they kick ass. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:16, 29 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah, most people in WM1 waste a whole pistol mag by rapid firing at me (even with a Desert Eagle!) and I just double-tap them in the chest, end of story. One time I ran into three guys at the same time in a small room and I just wiped them all out in seconds and then two more showed up (one had a SAW!) and I rapidly took them out before they could fire a single shot. All in all, I wiped out five guys with a my USP45 in about 10 seconds! That's why my friends nick-named me Vincent, you know, from the movie [[Collateral]], because I can take down multiple people very quickly with a USP45. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:44, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::::I start to get annoyed in most FPS when the pistols are severely underpowered. Like in Black Ops- in reality a few shots from the 1911 would put somebody down, but I've had instances where it takes one and a half magazines. I still agree that MW1 got the pistols right, and IMO it is the best CoD to date.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:25, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Thats what I did when I sniped in CoD4. Since I suck at sniping, i usually got more 1911 kills than R700 kills. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 12:36, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4 had pistols right, amongst other things. I am a bit worried about the Machine Pistols continuing from MW2, it's not fun going against snipers who are so well armed. A sniper should have a pistol and his rifle, that's it... not an Uzi... especially not a Raffica that's essentially an M16. Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense. In MW2, snipers use their MP's to assault positions and run around as if they had an SMG. This isn't cool. Regardless, I think they need to make sniper rifles less of a close range deal. People pride themselves on using the Intervention at close range, and using the M40 ACOG to no-scope. This is so against what those two weapons are designed for I can't even think straight. But, this's off topic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:48, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Arg, yes, I HATE quickscoping soooo much, but yeah, the balance to snipers is they only get a pistol, so they (are supposed to be) stuck to long range fighting. Oh, and I hope shotguns are better, not like MW2 1887 better, like MW1 W1200 better. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:43, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
:The funny thing is that real US snipers use a M16 or a M4/M4A1 as they're backup weapon for they're sniper rifle along side a possible M9 pistol which would be a backup, backup weapon. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Don't quite see how relevant this is. As I've said before, CoD isn't a simulator. Also, I distinctly said "Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense", in a paragraph and in a section regarding MW3, a video game, in order to defuse any realism comments. It's simply not fun/balanced, in my opinion. In real warfare, yeah, there's really no room for fairness... but it's a game that can be adjusted to be the most fun for everyone. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:19, 1 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I know, just say'n. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:I understand that quickscoping takes skill, but it still makes me sooo mad. I think that they should find a way to limit sniper rifles to long range only. Anyway, back on topic, I realized that Quantum of Solace actually got the pistols right too. Two or three shots from a 9mm puts someone down and one to two from a .45. This might be because the game really focuses around the P99 and other pistols more than rifles/submachine guns.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Doing something that's silly can still take skill. Putting my hand in the mouth of a Shark and yanking it out again without a scratch takes skill, but it's still silly. Skill can't be the sole factor in weighing an action's legitimacy. There should be no ACOG option for any sniper rifle, especially bolt actions. Period. I'd be in favor of making a 6x or Variable Magnification scope available for sniper rifles (and assault rifles in the case of the former). My point is not that quickscoping is done, it's that IW has created a game in which it's possible. It needs to be made impossible. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:36, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Very well said, it is not legitimate because it takes skill, you might as well put Rock Band gameplay in and FPS if you think like that. COD may ot be a simulator, in the sense of what people use, unlikely events, etc, but every FPS needs to have the weapons used properly, in a technical sense, and so you can't snipe with a compact pistol, or quickscope, etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:12, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

It would be so nice to see a stealth mission where you sneak into a complex (probably as price and soap) to kill a leader and you have to sneak through hallways and vents with suppressed P99's with a fellow soldier like in Prypiat in COD4. WHY cant this happen. It would be a nice change of pace and not feel like a straight rip off of All Gilled Up like Contingency did in MW2.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:37, 06 June 2011 (CDT)

:These are nice additions, but I'm still hoping for an XD or XD(m) -- preferably in .45 caliber. :P [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:03, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==
Is it possible that the soldier catching the magazine could be holding a [[Armalite AR-10|AR-10]] 7.62x51mm rifle? Since the developers finally learned about magnifiers maybe they think they could make a hybrid sniper/assault rifle by using a bigger bullet? I just don't see a reason why soldiers would be using 20 round 5.56 magazines unless they figured out it bigger magazines don't work well in prone. Plus we do see that fire selector switch on semi? I personally think it's a AR-10 with a shortened barrel.
:Sorry dude, but the mag is too small to be a 7.62x51mm, it's defiantly a 556'er. So it's a goof on IW's part, at least for now. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr.
Wolf]] 08:31, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::Here's a thought, in Black Op's they modelled some guns with Extended Magazines when the "Extended Magazines Attachment" was added, perhaps IW has done the same? Maybe the 30 rounders are extended mags, while they revert to 20 rounders for default? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Well that's just dumb. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:02, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::And yet they made it so that an M4A1 could carry 45 round magazines without changing the magazine on the model in MW2. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:15, 27 May 2011 (CDT)
: Yeah, there's no way it's an AR-10. They've already got something similar to an AR-10 in the RSASS, which is akin to the SR-25/M110. Draco, my thoughts as well. It still doesn't make sense, but if extended magazines show up on the gun as a 30 rounder, would work. That in my opinion, is Black Ops' greatest contributing to CoD, taking abilities away from perks and adding them to attachments. Example, the taped/dual magazines in Black Ops, gave a slightly faster reload time and added more ammunition in total. This took an emphasis off of having Scavenger to last any long period of time and allowed people to balance Bling and Sleight of Hand.

: Furthermore, everyone seems to think that IW is making a system whereby one folds down the 3x magnifier and uses the EOTech singularly and vice versa. I really think IW will be using an EOTech as a separate attachment, and a magnified EOTech as its version of an ACOG. I have yet to see a picture with a regular ACOG, correct me if I'm wrong. By all means, it would be preferable to have it behave like in real life where you could use both or the EOTech in different instances, but sadly I think IW may just be saving on development time by combining the two. However, what I think is more likely/logical is for them to include a traditional RDS/Reflex, and an ACOG, while including the EOTech with magnifier as one attachment to make it different from the RDS.

: IW could also be making the M4 with a 20 round magazine because they want it to -act- like a 7.62x51 NATO, i.e. be more powerful, so therefore they'd have to balance the ammunition capacity. IW is notorious for making weapons with silly statistics, like the SCAR-H being 7.62x51 NATO and having a very small amount of recoil on full-auto.

::I doubt that. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::If anything, it seems the most logical explanation for them making a 20 round magazine standard on the M4. The M4 was one of the weakest assault rifles in MW2, so it's logical that they'd try and up the damage on it and offset this increased damage with a smaller magazine/semi-automatic fire rate. It's still silly, but IW isn't dumb. They may not be well known for making a realistic game, but balance is kind of their forte, even if it's manifested by making weapons have odd properties. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::You know what, It would be really funny if IW made the 20-round magazine hold 30 rounds anyway, lol. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:48, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:PS - There is a picture of the MP5 with an ACOG from CoD4 in the leaked pictures from Kotaku, assuming this won't be in game. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:45, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's because they're comparing the MW3 MP5 with the MW1 and 2 MP5s. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 05:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::That's also why I put that PS there, it's a toss up between a comparison and including them as variants. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:21, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Cover Art ==
What is that the dude is holding on the cover art? It first glance I thought it was a TAR21 or something similar, but now I'm thinking its an M4 of some sort, but with an AFG Magpul grip attached instead. Could someone clear this up for me? --[[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 14:09 25 May 2011 (GMT+0)

: Yeah, it's just an AR variant with an AFG on it. It seems that IW has received a lot of sponsorship from Remington and Magpul, so it's possible that the AFG may be included as an attachment, though that's very doubtful. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:37, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: Ahh, its nice to choose having a grip, but choosing the actual grip model is a luxury we will probably never have in CoD. Ironicy, it is one of the thigns I want MW3 to deliver, weapon customization like in Army of Two 40th Day. That was/is a BEASTLY game for weapon customization. Like PMG on console. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 12:26, 26 May 2011 (GMT+0)

:: I think COD's decent enough in terms of weapon customization, one step they could take is allowing Bling Pro to give you three attachments (Not including M203/Masterkey in my opinion) and add a few more attachments that were in Black Ops and ones that aid in recoil/accuracy that aren't sights. Or, the more preferable solution in my eyes, is to separate attachments from perks altogether. In other words, get rid of Bling and just give people the ability to customize their weapons. There's no invisible wall preventing one from putting attachments on a weapon in real life. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:08, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Yeah, it worked for Brink afterall. just make it so having a grenade launcher stops you using throw lethal grenades, or stops you from having a first perk, simple as. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:12, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

== MP5SD2 ==

I think there was '''NO''' MP5SD in the reveal trailer. The COD wikia has it wrong. [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_3] It is a normal A2 with a suppressor, unless the SD2 has rails around the built-in suppressor. Well, this game is pure sci-fi so, I don't know.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Without agreeing or disagreeing (I'm indifferent toward this game at the moment), I don't see anything that would prevent IW from sticking rails on an MP5SD if they wanted. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:37, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Err... Guys? ==

Just remember that there's still no guarantee this is even getting released, depending on which way the pending lawsuit goes. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

*I imagine it'd come out regardless, just without the Modern Warfare brand if Activision loses. You know, like it was going to be with FEAR 2 being just "Project Origin" before Monolith bought the franchise from Activision. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::But if Activision loses, and can't use the MW brand, doesn't that also include, and mean they can't use the characters either? Like Price and MacTavish? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:48, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::I don't think so, even when it was "Project Origin" FEAR 2 was going to have Alma in it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:52, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::: If it is being pushed through to November, it's going to be released. Activision wouldn't risk losing their baby of a franchise to go out like that, they aren't dumb. COD games come out every Holiday season like the sun rises and sets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Flip-Up Sights ==

The german magazine GameStar did a preview on the game, apparently IW and Sledgehammer showed two levels of the game in London. And they write something about "flipping up sights" as a new feature. It isnt explained what this means exactly, nor is there any picture/video material of it, but it could be a hint about it. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:They're probably talking about that magnifier; I guess that means you really can control if it's used or not (D-pad function, perhaps). Games magazines can usually be relied on to get every piece of firearm terminology they try to use wrong since they learned gun terminology from video games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:24, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::They actually use the german term for Flip-Up sights, so i dont know. I posted the question in the comment sections, maybe i'll get an answer. But even if it's the magnifier, still an improvement. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:42, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::The minute I posted this, I got a response. You are right, she means the magnifier. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Either way, seems to be an improvement. Thanks for the info! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:23, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Samopal Vzor 58 ==
In Prague level (Czech Republic), Russian soldier can be seen holding an AK type gun that seems like Samopal Vzor 58. Off course its most probably just wrongly lighted AK-47, but it may sense that he captured it from Czech Army as it takes place in Czech Republic.

[[File:Samopal Vzor 58 MW3 probably.JPG|thumb|left|200px|Well, it would have been really awesome if IW included this rare weapon.]]

[[Image:800px-Sa 58-JH01.jpg|thumb|left|400px|'''Czech Sa. vz. 58P''' ''(Pěchotní aka "Infantry")'' with fixed stock - 7.62x39mm]]

Just look on it - It seems to lack AK ejecting port, it may lack top-mount RIS rifle and gas block looks shorter. Also, body looks almost tiny compared to 7.62 magazine.

:: There's already an AK variant/format weapon that's not of Czech design, IW wouldn't put another in just for kicks. What you're likely seeing is a lack of modeling, or lighting as you indicated, for example the M4 in MW2 didn't have an ejection port simply because it's a mirror image in terms of a weapon model, laziness on IW's part. As for the magazine, the mags have always been a bit oversized on MW AK's, but they're not ridiculous. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:31, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== New Weapons Confirmed ==

From reading several previews posted 5/26/2011, multiple games press have confirmed a few weapons. Modern Warfare 24/7 has a list of these previews here (http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/first-mw3-previews-screens) while the one that details the weapons by name are found here (http://aggregame.com/news/2011/05/26/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-preview/). Weapons confirmed in closed doors preview include: AK-47, P90, M4A1, Spas-12, AT-4, and XM-25. The XM-25 has been called the "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" or "a nod to the crossbow" in other previews. Also confirms the usage of a "hybrid" sight mixing acog and red dot and its use. Lastly, theres a "9-bang" which is a "cluster bomb" of flashbangs and/pr stun grenades that you throw (I don't know if that one is a real life thing but someone who's more versed in gun/warfare knowledge confirm please). Please update main imfdb page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

: Modernwarfare 247 is notorious for labeling firearms inaccurately, they did so with MW2 on several weapons before correcting it after the game came out. There's nothing in the Modernwarfare 247 article that says XM-25, but either way, it's not a sniper rifle by any means. Would be a cool inclusion if it's in. Dunno what the 9 bang thing is, stun grenades and flashbangs are increasingly irritating, I don't think they need to be made better by any means. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

You are correct that the Modernwarfare 247 article doesn't name the xm-25, I merely mentioned that it had a list a previews and that some of the previews do. The one paticulalrly from aggregame.com, which I linked, mentions weapons by name. Many articles of the gaming press, who clearly don't know guns like the people on here, claim a "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" on the New York level. Aggregame.com's article says this in the 3rd paragraph quote, "We see a new type of weapon used in this level called the XM25. This weapon uses a laser rangefinder to determine the distance to the target and once fired, detonated at the proper distance to produce an airburst effect. Anyone hiding will be properly taken out." Now, judging from the grammar used (though this is only a hypothetical analysis) he mentioned it being "called" an XM-25. Meaning that the game files at this stage of development identify it as such, not that he used it and was like "oh I know what this is". Judging from the description of many gaming press articles (again linked by modernwarfare24/7) it 'seems' to be the real thing. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

:Arg, I was just in the middle of adding that :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:55, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Ahhh fair enough, gotcha'. Hm, well I hope they actually make it semi-automatic and with a small overall ammunition capacity. IW seems to shower in explosions and knifing, when they're making a -shooter-. I dunno' why they don't focus on making their conventional firearms better. Either way, nice snag on the info. Though, I will still caution you on MW247, I encountered them in my MW2 forum days and they weren't reliable at all. The 9 bang thing is troubling, what the hell was wrong with the Stun/Flash grenandes? Stun Grenades are -way- overpowered in my opinion, granted being stunned is an effect of a common flashbang, but being paralyzed -and- blinded, isn't. Regular flashbangs are enough, nothing else. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:59, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah, I wouldn't mid COD so much if they toned down the knifing, seriously, it's not sothing you should use because you couldn't think to do anything else, it should be a very last ditch defence, this goes for all shooters. What's strange is when I play COD4 (cause I still play 4 :) ), there's very little knifing if you watch the killfeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:My thoughts exactly, Commando is silly. They had it right in CoD4. One thing that really bothers me, is that even on Hardcore, when I'm face to face and lighting the person up... it's still possible for them to knife me and walk away. Getting shot should interrupt the knife ability, and it shouldn't work faster than bullets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:30, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, it's not that it's one hit kill, it's that it's so damn fast! Bad Company 2 got the knife right, you press the button, and it kills them about a whole second (that's a long time) later, it's mostly an assassination weapon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Just wanna throw out, the XM-25 is now also confirmed by IGN. Link here: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1171345p1.html. Someone can edit the main page appropriately as I'm not the most professional gun expert. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 22:23, 30 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

The "hybrid ACOG" could be one of Trijicon's ECOS models which have a small red dot sight mounted on top. And within a month, everybody will be whining about how "unfair" it is to have a scope and an RDS in one package... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Controversy ==

Well, it was inevitable, but the controversy's already gotten rolling.

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110393-Daily-Mail-Voices-Concern-Over-Ultra-Violent-Modern-Warfare-3 Escapist: Daily Mail Voices Concern Over "Ultra-Violent" Modern Warfare 3]

[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Fortunately, most gamers care about good games regardless of content. personally, I could care less what the media says. Not a big issue, always going to be this somewhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:12, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: The controversy is exactly what they want, it's good promotion. Just like that whole "airport-level" in MW2 was. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 07:12, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::Yup, it's good marketing for them, people become more interested when all the soccer mums etc. cry out about something. Until we see games like GTA actually getting banned, we FPS players have nothing to worry about. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:54, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Killer, Alex, those are the most truthful words ever. They dont care about decency or people, they care about MONEY. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 17:58, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:I get upset every time I see footage of the Towers falling, but that doesn't mean I think such images should be censored. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown Ak Variant ==

I was think the gun listed as the Unknown Ak Variant might be a AK74. I thought this because it appears to have a longer flash hider, which the AK74 encorporates, although I wouldnt hold my breath. Thoughts?

: If you check out the flash-hider on the leaked Kotaku screens, you can see that it's emphatically not the AK-74 typical flash-hider. It's something I've never seen before, it's like just the last few centimeters of the AK-74 flashhider, married to the barrel. Magazine looks too curved to be the AK-74, so it's probably a 7.62x39 AK. AK Variant is good enough for me, CoD's AK's are always pretty non-specific. :) [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:52, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:: On first screen, that unknown AK variant looks like Vzor 58 rifle as it doesnt have AK´s ejection port/ bolt. On second screen, its just normal AK that is on one of those leaked shots. They arent same, as first gun is longer, thiner and lacks top mounted RIS rail.

: It looks different because it's in the dark and is low-res, whereas the leaked one is in the bright daylight and is a high-res closeup. It's the same weapon, there is no reason why IW would include both being so similar.It doesn't have the bolt/ejection port because IW is lazy and uses mirror images of weapons to render their models. Where the end of the receiver meets the stock adapter and the angled area of the receiver around the magwell are dead giveaways that it's not the Czor in addition to the spacing of the ribs on the receiver, which on the Czor are very close together. The magazines are always a little bigger, just CoD's style, and even then the magazine looks just fine to me. It's an AK variant, not the Czech make.

:As for the length, it's the same. What you might be confusing is where the gas tube meets the barrel as the end of the weapon, in the reveal trailer capture, the barrel ends near the man's thigh it's just hard to make out. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:01, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

Shouldn't the AK-74 in the main page be called "Unknown AK variant" or something like that? It's a bit hard currently to determine what is the correct variant, but by the leaked footage, this could be the same customized AK-47 like in Modern Warfare 2 only with different flash hider, handguard (which is also in black instead of tan) and black stock instead of tan. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:50, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: The railed foreguard is distinctly smaller. The stock isn't a VLTOR-type stock, but an LE one. Also, in the CoD Elite snippet trailer, one can see that the leaked Kotaku picture is legitimate. It matches the AK in that perfectly, this is a new AK weapon model for sure not just a painted one from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:25, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Call Of Duty: Elite ==
Kinda off topic, but this site's COD talk pages always end up becomeing half about discussing the game anyway, I was that trailer for Elite, and man, they expect us to pay for that? I mean, it's cool, but Bungie's been doing that with Halo forever, and it's free... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:02, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:The only color that matters to Activision, is green. I don't get it, your company produces the top-selling franchise of recent history, and you still want -more- money... get over yourselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 17:13, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:Meh. Don't like it, then don't pay for it. Vote with your dollars. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 06:41, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I agree, and I don't plan on paying for it. Bungie did heatmaps/statistics/awards/etc for free... Activision is marketing Elite as some sort of CoD Facebook with the occasional prize won. As long as those are the only perks, then I will not be paying for it. However, if they decide to transform it into some VIP membership giving members say, discounts on map packs, early access, or different weapon/abilities that are available no other way... then it's supremely disappointing and insulting to the people who spend an already outrageous $60 USD on the very game they produced. I understand that Activision is a business, and the goal is to make money... but this just seems like overt greed and a way to cash in. It's also detrimental, because for some odd reason, CoD seems to set the paradigm for all FPS's of late. So, other companies now feel pressured to emulate CoD in order to make money themselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:45, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'ts been pretty much summed up already. DEFINITELY not buying this, and I'm still not even sure I want MW3. I saw somewhere that there are no dedicated servers, which was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing that could save it is...well...a miracle. I am probably just going to go with Battlefield 3.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:36, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not expecting much from MW3, but I will get it for the singleplayer, just to see what happens with Price and Soap. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

They buy it used. Kick Activision where it hurts.

Battlefield 3 looks great, really high hopes for that one. MW3 doesn't look bad necessarily, just the same stuff in a different package. Will get it and play it a ton, but, as far as a good game being made, Battlefield 3 is going to take the cake. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:03, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, well said, I don't think MW3 is gonna be BAD, just the same thing again. BF3 looks awesome though. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:49, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Not going to lie, I'm going to buy this to round out the MW series (hopefully it ends with #3), and I'll be buying BF3. I will not be paying a single cent for the Elite service though. There's no reason for it to exist as a pay service. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:55, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

DICE also just blogged about their FREE BattleLog thing, which is pretty much the same as Elite. But free, because DICE seem to be less concerned with making dough and more concerned with producing a decent game and making their customers happy. IW makes their customers happy, sure, but most of those customers value big 'splosions rather than deep and interesting gameplay. I love CoD, but Battlefield is long overdue and as a company, EA/DICE are good in my book. Really looking forward to the Multiplayer footage and information that'll be coming out of E3 in the next few days. Seems a bit odd though, nobody seems to be posting regularly on the BF3 Discussion thread... get to it! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Ummm... is Call of Duty: Elite directly related to MW3? If not, shouldn't it have it's own page? Please correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:04, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Elite is some kind of online service, not a separate game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:36, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet? ==

In the snippet of mw3 at the end of the Call of Duty Elite trailer, when the player is killed the stock of the TSI Vector from Mw2 appears on his back.
[[File:TDI Vector.jpg]]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 22:04, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: Yep! I noticed that too. It's prolly indeed, the TDI Vector. However, I did notice that stock somewhere else on a weapon it shouldn't be in MW3, I can't say where, I just feel like I saw it somewhere. Good spot! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:24, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Could that be the M93 Raffica from MW2? I've always thought the stocks look similar. Although why a pistol has a stock in the first place is beyond me. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:39, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:::To make it a more stable firing platform, especially for a pistol that fires in full-auto/tri-burst. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:33, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== E3 Footage ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfTBe_PJrQ
Some firearms could be seen here. AA-12 confirmed. --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 13:26, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

You can see the AK-74u, P-90, and Glock 18 as pickups at times 5:14, 5:22, and 6:46 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

AA-12 is used for breaching the bridge of the sub starting at 6:16 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:52, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I am nowhere near impressed with what we've seen out of MW3 so far... Good spots. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

2nd E3 Trailer spots at trailer found here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-call-of/714784?type=flv). AK-47 as pickup at 1:29. 0:09 Driver of Humvee screams "RPG!", Dshk mounted on enemy vehicle at 1:40, M2 on automated gun system on Stryker at 2:16, Mi-24 using Yak-B gattling gun at 2:53, 9-bang used at 4:27, RPG (with RPG-7 sound from MW2) fired towards allied npcs at 4:50, XM-25 usage starting at 5:20, AT-4 as pickup at 5:30, AK-47 Grenadier seen as pickup at 7:00 possibly a gp-25 or a gp-30, Spas-12 as pickup at 8:12, Thermite grenades at 8:40, Reaper Drone weapons used starting at 9:25, M134 Minigun sighted 10:32, and RPG-7's fired at player shortly after, M134 magically taking down Hinds for remainder of the video (Hind cockpit glass alone is 12.7mm resistant).
:Wow, four years were not enough for them to realize that there is no such sh*t as "AK-74u". - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:21, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Hehe. Even when I name my classes I always find myself putting the 's' in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I've seen people refer to the S model as a "Ak47 pistol". I mean, seriously, a pistol? makes it worse the bloke who said it is a retired soldier who fought in Vietnam. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:41, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
Note how they say 12.7mm resistant. With a m134 you have 50 rounds a second heading for those Hinds. Now I've known people who are attack helicopter pilots and they do not want to get hit by a minigun as while such things as Titanium armored tubs will take the hit such things as armored cockpit glass cannot due to the number of bullets hitting the "glass" Sort of like how you can drop a quarter on a car window and it will bounce but if you drop a tin can full of quarters it will break the window.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:38, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The worst thing was that you got HIT by the crashing Hind, then HIT the building, fall out of the Blackhawk (almost), pull yourself BACK IN while it's spinning out, and GET BACK ON THE DAMN M134, then, oh we're fine, let's keep on flying... Oh, that and the HUGE BRICK OF C4 that you breach the Bridge with, and it doesn't hurt you... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:58, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::MW3=$60 MW2 DLC. Not impressed by anything I've seen so far, other than it taking place in NY; but Crysis 2, anyone? -Kangabox

Few more finds in the msnbc coverage of E3 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/43349883#43349883). Some gameplay of spec-ops shows (at 0:30) a man running around with a lever-action rifle/shotgun of some kind. It looks similar to the M1887 shotgun from the "leaked" photos a month back. At 0:53 the gamers are using what appears to be the Bushmaster ACR but I may be wrong because I'm not a gun expert. Someone please identify, thanks. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 20:50, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

:Did anybody notice that the MP-5 was called an MP-5k? and that the ACR was called ACR 6.8 --[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

More MW3 stuff. M1887 spotted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRx33M0V6I --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 01:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually, that may be a hint at caliber change options and the option to remove/attach stock.We'll see. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:03, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:^ This would be so awesome --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:58, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I doubt Activision would put something semi-realistic in CoD, but if caliber change was implemented I would buy it just for that reason.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:17, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::: Imagine what an 7.62X39 ACR would be like (it can be modified to use it). Just kill the bad guys and pick up their AK magazines. Awesome. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:38, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 18c ==

Should this not be put down as a Glock 17 seeing as it's likely it's the exact same gun from MW2? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]
:We should wait until we get a good shot of it before we make a decision, although it is likely the same.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, Jazz :) -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

== Unknown pistol from Late Night footage ==

[[Image:FN57MW3.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

Can anyone help identify this pistol? Looks like an FN Five seveN to me (sorry for bad quality) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:15, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yep, that's a Five-seveN alright, cool. EDIT, it holds 15 rounds. Wow, hardcore fail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:I had figured they'd do SOMETHING to balance it, either keep it at 20 rounds and give it low damage, or reduce mag size to keep it similar to other pistols --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:46, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Is there a link to this footage? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-61311/1333686/ Also confirms the inclusion of the Model 1887 in the game --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:36, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

FN five-seveN- YES! One handed grip- meh. Could get over it. Once (or if) they confirm the P99/P226, I will be more excited. At one point, the developer says something like "This gives an action movie feel. We tried to make it a cinematic experience." That is what CoD is- an action movie. If you want a military sim go to Battlefield.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:True that, I will always enjoy both games because they offer completely different experiences despite being the same genre. I'll be more interested in MW3 when they start announcing some MGs, but the Five-seveN is a pretty cool addition --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:53, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Gotta agree with both of you, there, I'm psyched for an FN five-seveN in a game like CoD. -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 00:43, 15 June 2011
::"Wow, hardcore fail." Alex, what the f#ck did you expect from a call of duty game. +1 round in the chamber? Some things will never change. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:53, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Haha, I was never hopeful enough for +1, but until not they'd gotten almost all the mag capacities right, especially since the 20 round mag is one of the most notable features of the Five-seveN :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::::If it did have 20 rounds, people would complain that it was overpowered. All in the name of balance! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:51, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Not if it was very weak, no one complained about the 20 round Five-seveN in the Counter Strike games. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:16, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::There is that I suppose. It'd probably never be used in favour of something a little more powerful with fewer rounds though. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:22, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

:And of course it's probably still going to have 15 rounds in single even though multiplayer balance is totally irrelevant there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
::Good point, didn't consider that. Screw Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:12, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

I am starting to realise that if ammo sharing between primaries and secondaries comes back from Cod4, most SMGs will have an advantage, as of now there are many possible combos (P90/Five-seveN, MP5 & FMG-9/P226 & Glock 18 and possibly UMP45/USP45 or M1911). This would make Scavenger (if it returns) unecessary and would open up a perk slot. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 19:38, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:That would be awesome! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:04, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 back in MW3 ==

Does anyone think the M1911 will be back in Modern Warfare, and I found a 1911 looking gun when soldier blind-firing with a UMP45 in the reveal trailer [[File:UMP45-MW3]]

:I know the shot you're talking about, it could be a 1911, I HOPE it's a 1911, but it could also be the P226 with wierd lighting on it, if there really is a P226. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:46, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope both are included, the selection of secondaries in Black Ops was paltry, more pistol choices plz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:54, 16 June 2011 (CDT)
: yeah more pistol choices because in black ops I only used the m1911 and the python.

:I only use the ASP, I know it was highly outclassed by all the others but it was obscure enough to make it a favourite.--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:41, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:I like all the pistols in Black Ops (except the Makarov, I've never liked it), but the problem was they were almost all the same, low capacity, low damage, like the WaW pistols. While we're talking about pistols, has anyone else noticed that the sildes of the COD4 pistols actually locked back when empty, and the WaW ones had working hammers? Then starting with MW2, it just became part of the animation, so it would fully cycle, then appear back when you started reloading. Black Ops continued this too. The only pistol in MW2 that locked empty was the 1911 because they just copy-pasted the whole thing from 4, and the only one to lock empty in BO is... the 1911. Apparently they just reskined the WaW 1911 in BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:06, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Can't say I'm surprised, I suppose the majority of players don't notice small inconsistencies in weapon function animations. I guess they could get away with copy pasting the M1911 from CoD4 into MW2 as it was only featured in campaign, which in itself was pretty lame as it was the only sidearm I used in CoD4 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah Ive heard about it and sceen it do you think they fix the bug --[[User:GVK2009|GVK2009]] 22:01, 16 June 2011 (CDT)GVK2009

: I wouldn't be surprised, it's kinda become a tradition to have it in the series. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:36, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::They better, if only so Price can have it like in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons Wishlist ==

Any particular guns that people are hoping to see in MW3? All I need in order to be happy is the M240. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
:Hmm, I'm having for some drum mags and Frag-12 rounds for the AA-12. Also, a Blaser R93 LRS2 wouldn't go amiss. Probably not a military weapon, but neither is the WA2000 or the Winchester 1887. *Cough* MW2 *Cough* Also hope they bring back the M93R but fix the magazines to give it 30 rounds. And hopefully they throw in the PSG-1, like in BO, but make it look decent (Not sure about you guys, but to me the gun looked disgusting in BO). That's pretty much my wishlist, I guess. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:08, 17 June 2011
::Argle bargle there is no such thing as an M93R Beretta does not use M for model prefix etc etc [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thanks for the correction, Tim. I'm not amazing with guns, but I hope to improve. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:24, 17 June 2011
::Muh the AA-12, sure it looks cool but it can never, ever be balanced for inclusion in a video game. Also I think the PSG-1 in Black Ops was hot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
All I need to be happy is a HUGE selection of pistols, not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs, AA12, etc, and (gonna get a lot of heat for this) NO QUICKSCOPING. IMHO snipers should be used as snipers, and running around close-quarters with a sniper is simply a one shot one kill semi auto rifle. Pistols I would love to see in the game even though half of them have a guaranteed 0% chance- Walther P99, SIG-Sauer P226/P228/P229, HK P30 or HK45, Beretta Cougar or more realistically the Px4 Storm, S&W M&P, Para Ordnance P14 45 Limited (this would be the best pistol in the game, as I would leave out the Desert Eagle), and to round it all out a good ole Smith & Wesson Model 686 with Pachmayr Grips. I am also glad that the FN Five-seveN is in it, I just wish they gave it a proper two-handed grip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:09, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::About the PSG-1, ALL the weapons looked terrible in Black Ops. JazzBlackBelt, I'd be worried if you took heat for not wanting quickscoping on this website, that would seriously worry me :/ And, yeah, pretty much what you said. As for balancing an AA-12, no, it can't be done, everyone go watch FPSRussia's AA-12 video, especially when he one-hands it; you can't balance that. They just made the pellets disappear after (literally!) 10 feet in MW2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:04, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::'not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs' Haha, as a regular LMG user this makes me sad :( I don't think LMGs are 'noob guns' if employed properly, they are fairly essential in defensive roles if playing gametypes like domination in which points NEED to be effectively locked down. However, I will concede that the majority of players who DO choose LMGs do so in order to hold the trigger down and hope 2-3 of their 100 round belts hit, which is just not on. As for quickscoping, I can't stand it. I feel it's cheap and 95% down to aim assist (though obviously not on PC). --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:29, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::I'm so ''sick'' of the term N00B, ugh. I'm not going to give my "wish list" cause IW is gonna do what "they" want and not listen to "us", I stopped playing COD games at WM2. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::75% of the LMG users use them improperly, like running around not really aiming. I still get annoyed when they kill me (I get annoyed at pretty much everything when it kills me) but if they were actually using it properly it makes me feel a little bit better. As I play on PC there are still annoying players that play outrageously, but on PC virtually nobody uses the mic (on CoD anyway) so I don't have to listen to them talk!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:25, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::I'm the same, though I think getting annoyed is part of the fun. It must be, otherwise we wouldn't keep playing. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::Nah, getting annoyed is never part of the fun, the game is good enough that we can clinch our teeth from the few annoying things and still enjoy the game. ;) (At least in MW1 for me anyway.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::I've never been that keen on CoD4, definitely not on PC anyway. The maps are far too small for the amount of players each server has :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:33, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Love COD4 on the PC, I love the 24 to 50 players on those "small" maps, 50 players makes it a true war! I prefer playing on Hard Core mode, just love it, no HUD, 1 or 2 bullets to kill someone, that's the way all the COD games '''should''' be by default. :) Never played WM2 or BO, they're too silly and Hollywood. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:22, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::::COD4 is by far the best CoD in my opinion. I play on PC, but I hate when there are too many players on a map. I aim for servers with about 4-15 players. Likewise, I love the big maps on BC2, but only when there are enough players.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:53, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Aside from seconding the inclusion of a bigger variety of combat pistols (note that by "combat pistols", I don't mean Desert Eagles, S&W 500s, and the like), the only weapon I'd like to see is a Mark 12 SPR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:48, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be for more Shotguns and to have them placed not ONLY as secondaries, but Primaries too. For example, I'd love to have the semi-auto M1014 or the 1887 as a primary but have a smaller sawn off shotgun or a compact pump action as a secondary, like a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. MW2 with it's secondary shotguns was a bit of disappointment with me. I'd love to see more real life mainstream shotguns instead of the damn SPAS-12, it's overused for god sake, just start adding the 870 or the Mossberg, I wouldn't even mind if it had all the "Tacticool" crap on, as long as it was either the Mossberg or 870 underneath it all. But overall, more pistols in general, maybe a sniper rifle with only a single shot fire capability, a G3 Rifle from COD4 and maybe some really old weapons, like a Bolt Action Mosin Nagant or a Lee Enfield Rifle. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:36, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:How about NO shotguns as secondaries? IMO primaries should be the rifle/shotgun and secondaries should be pistols. Two shotguns? A little bit overkill and unfair.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:58, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I don't know, there is something crazy fun about running around with a M4 and the semi-atuo M1014. Unrealistic, and ridiculous? Maybe, but can't deny that its fun. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:02, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be that we could choose our equipment before the missions. There are some, I suppose where that would be unrealistic such as the 'No Russian' from MW2, but I think it would give everyone a bit more personal or in depth experience if they could choose their kit. I love the idea that we could get the flip up magnifier for an EOTech sight, but in general I prefer how much less of the screen is taken up by the red dot sight from MW1+2. I don't know enough about programming to understand if this would be impossible, but right now I have a bit of a crush on the Bushmaster ACR and would love to play levels with that, and in a few months when I'm having another of my HK 41X kicks play the game again with that rifle. Living in the UK my PC is the closest I will get to these guns, and I think everyone would have more fun if they could personalise their kit rather than have it chosen arbitrarily by IW/Activision who, I doubt, could not come up with one reason, good or bad, for giving you the equipment that they do. One specific request Sig Sauer p226 in .357 sig, they won't do it but you have to have dreams. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:00, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

A Weapon Loadout wouldn't be too hard. Medal of Honor: Airborne did the same thing. Maybe, completing missions, unlocking achievements/trophies (and a separate means on PC and Wii), unlocks new weapons to choose. - [[User:1morey]] June 20, 2011 8:50 PM (EST)

Two main things I'm hoping for: First, I want my F2000 back, but I want IW to get the unique optics right -- the EGLM sight on the real F2000 is magnified, so in-game, it should be the ACOG scope that looks like the EGLM, not the Red Dot. Second, I want a Springfield Armory XD or XD(m) pistol, preferably in .45 caliber; hell, I'd settle for the Croatian HS2000 that the XD is based on. I have a few other wishes (XM500 instead of M82/M107), but those two are the only ones that really have any chance of coming true. - [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:13, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

When will CoD learn? i love CoD but its seriously going down hill from CoD4. they had nice, popular NORMAL weapons in CoD4. M4A1, AK, M16, 1911, M9. now their bringing in stuff that knowone has ever heard of. is it too much to ask for a normal Glock? maybe a 17 or 21 in place of the USP. maybe use some pistols actually being used by actual SF Operators like the Glock, Sig, 1911, Springfield XD. and what is up with the Russians carrying FAMAS's. just looking for a call of duty that had the same quality and standards as COD4.. anyone with me on this? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:59, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:What? The USP is WAY more "normal" that the XD [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

i'd give it a few years, its been tried to replace the M9 (as did the hK45), its employed by a few police forces, im sure its being used by SF. and PS im pretty sure that most people would hand in the USP for the newer more ergonomic hK45, or the P30(same thing but in 9x19/.40S&W) [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 21:07, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:But... The HK45 only holds 10+1 rounds where as the USP45 holds 12+1. :B By decreasing the grip size for smaller hands and better ergonomics it lost 2 rounds. :( If someone made flush-fitting 12 round mags for the HK45, I'd buy it in a heart beat. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:25, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:I would take the fully ambi version of the USP45 over any other handgun. Period. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:05, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74u ==

Shouldn't the section for the aks74u on the page be titled "AKS-74u" and not AK-74u with quotations? IMO it's the same as calling a Glock 17 converted to full auto a fake Glock 18. I don't believe in the "call it what the game calls it" method because that is incorrect. I think we should definitely mention that the game incorrectly names it in the description, but the title should be the actual gun it is modeled after.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:47, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:It uses that title because the weapon is actually a replica of the JG "AK Beta-F" Airsoft gun, not an AKS-74u; it's a mess of different AK variant bits and pieces (mostly AK-47) that's shaped a bit like an AKS-74u but certainly isn't one. Hence it's a quote-unquote AK-74u. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:23, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just as Evil Tim said, it's only similar to the 74u in name, it's a bunch of different AKs, and it's not even a 74, it's a 47 anyway. Someone could copy-paste the description from the COD4 page. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

::Then shouldn't it be titled the model of the airsoft gun? All other pages I have seen that use airsoft guns as stand ins for real guns have the gun(s) it is modeled after and in parenthesis the airsoft gun. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up as I'm not much of an AK expert.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:25, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::It's not exactly the same as the Airsoft gun either, though. On a movie page where the gun in question was being used to play a real one, yes, you'd use the name, but here it's a fictional gun ''based'' on an Airsoft gun, so you just have to go with what they call it in quotes. That's how it's normally done for Frankenguns and fictional custom weapons in games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:Well, technically the only difference is the bakelite mags, but "AK-74u" looks WAY better than "AK Beta-F". [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:19, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::There's some minor differences in the layout of the gas block and front grip (check the CoD4 page images) and I'd agree it looks better to call it by the game name in quotes; it also makes it easier for someone looking for an ID of the weapon to actually find it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::The gas block and grip just look like fail modelling, but they are different ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:20, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for all the replies, really cleared that up for me. As I said before, I am NOT in any way an AK expert. I had read that the one in COD4 it was modeled after an airsoft gun, and assumed the airsoft gun was modeled after the actual gun, not random bits. To avoid making other people confused I will update the description with a modified version of the COD4 one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah I know what you mean by not an AK expert, it took me forever to be able to tell what one was just by looking at it for a sec, and there's still a lot that I come across I hadn't heard of. Same with revolvers, even now, they still all look the same to me lol. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:29, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Other than a few Smith & Wessons, don't ask me ANYTHING about revolvers. But hey, that's what this site is for- educating people about firearms.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:56, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:Lol, well said :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:58, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

It is correct that this gun is not an aks 74u and that the term ak 74u "doesn't exist." However, I don't know where the author of the main page got the information that this gun "doesn't exist." It's called an SBR (short barreled rifle) you can look it up if you don't believe me, just type in: short barrel rifle ak. Also, I know for a fact that you can fit an aks 74u type muzzle brake on the rifle. Most, if not all ak type muzzle brakes are compatible with each other. Just sayin'. --[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 16:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I googled, and there's no weapon listed called an "AK-74u" on the first page. If you can find a fullauto AKM-pattern weapon that looks like the one in the game and is called the AK-74u ''by the manufacturer'', then feel free to add it to the page, but as far as anyone can tell it's an "AK Beta F" Airsoft gun. This would hardly be the first mistake CoD has made regarding weapons, CoD1 had eight and ten-man weapons with a one-man crew and MP44s at Stalingrad in 1942-43. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm sorry for the poor communication, the gun is call a "Short Barrel Rifle." Ak 74u is just a nickname of AKS 74u. Look up "Short Barrel Rifle ak" on google. You are correct in saying that the Ak 74u isn't a "real weapon."--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:43, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:SBR is a legal classification of weapons (shoulder-fired rifled guns with barrels 16 inches or shorter) which require a special tax stamp and registration, it's not a specific gun. It's been applied to handguns with shoulder stocks before. What you're finding with that google search is weapons which fit that legal definition. Bear in mind we ''don't'' use legal definitions here, because legally, for example, there's no such thing as a fully automatic shotgun (it's a "machine gun"). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:49, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Regardless of what you say it's classified as, the weapon exists regardless of technical terms. I was merely proving the weapon existed. Even if it is heavily modified.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:55, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Um, you're looking at dozens of different short-barrel AKM-pattern weapons with that search, the only thing they have in common is requiring an SBR stamp. It doesn't really change that ''this'' AK isn't a real gun, because it's an Airsoft gun based on piecemeal bits of the AK47 and AKS-74U. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:01, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I don't want to debate the issue with you here, I am aware that you are correct about the SBR title and its classification. However, If you look at the weapon posted, you will realize that it is merely an AKM with a shortened barrel, the pictures I found proves that this customization exists. You're going by weapon title whereas I'm going by the weapon itself. A weapon like that could, in theory, exist. With full auto capability and everything. But do what you will, It doesn't bother me at all, However, I think you can agree that this fictional weapon is at least based off a real firearm.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:09, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

The only Aks 74u piece you're talking about is the muzzle brake.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:12, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and the sight, but dude, I don't want to be that guy, I just want to show that this gun could be real, after all, the gun in-game doesn't show any manufacturer or anything, it's just a customized AKM.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:15, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about the fact that the configuration could ''theoretically'' be made into a real gun, though. We know of an ''actual'' Airsoft gun which is mass-produced right now and easily available to be used as a reference, which is all but identical to what is shown in the game. This means it's based on a fake weapon. Whether you could make an actual weapon based on ''it'' doesn't really change that. We say the same of handheld miniguns in videogames which have the "chainsaw grip" from T2 but retain the half-circle attachment point for the ''Predator'' M60 grip: you could make a minigun with a useless half-circle attachment, but that doesn't change that the useless half-circle comes from the Airsoft version we have pictured on the M134 page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:23, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

By all means do whatever you want, you know more about this site than I do, and frankly, I like this site and don't want to get into an argument on it. Either way is fine by me. And I'll leave it as a agree to disagree kind of thing regarding its actual existence. There's not enough evidence to say it does or doesn't exist. So I apologize for my previous remark. I leave it at a possibilty.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:30, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Call of Duty XP 2011 ==

I doubt it, but was just wondering if anyone is going to this? I'm curious if they got all the right guns in the "Call of Duty Armory", which apparently has the guns from CoD in it. You also get the chance to play MW3 for the first time, and a little beforehand reporting never hurt anyone ;).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:00, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:If I lived in the States/had the money to afford a flight to LA I probably would have gone. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted? ==

[http://a.yfrog.com/img736/504/nceia.jpg]

Looks like the Juggernaut soldier is using a PKP Pecheneg (note the distinctive carry handle on the top of the barrel).
There are some other guns lying around, possible an M14 on the left? Looks like a .308 mag to me....

(also is there a way to post an image directly in a discussion?)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:16, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Anyone else notice the annoyingly obvious Remington and EOTech trademarks? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:03, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah I don't like the trades at all, though I doubt I will use the ACR all that much. Good job on the PKP spot Ghost, think you're on the money there. Have wanted the PKP for a while. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:50, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's not like guns have rollmarks in real life, right?-protoAuthor 21:10, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, I don't mind the trades. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:46, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Each to their own, but they are massive so it feels a little like (very obscure) product placement --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:51, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, I'll take overt sponsorship over price rises. You have to remember that games have gone from something that could be made by half a dozen people in six months to something that takes 150-2,000 (GTAIV) people years and costs millions of dollars, and in real terms games now cost less than they did in those days. For example, the original ''Turok'' adjusted for inflation cost over $100 when the N64 first came out. They've got to get more money from somewhere, and you should be glad that somewhere isn't you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::I think it's brilliant. The MW series has made ACOG and EOTech house-hold names to an entire generation of potential customers. How many twelve year olds knew what an ACOG was pre-MW? Or what a Remington ACR was, or FN SCAR? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:00, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::But can they tell the difference between a Remington ACR and a Magpul Masada? But seriously, I don't mind the trades that much. Sure, they are gigantic and wrongly placed, but will you honestly be focused on that while playing?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:14, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::I suppose not, no. You might struggle to play the game if constantly focusing on your gun's trades. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:17, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yeah, you guys are right, the product placement isn't too bad, it's just the oversized obviousness that bothers me. Oh, and I'm not familiar with the new EOTech in this game, but isn't the EOTech trade where the buttons should be? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Not necessarily, I believe the model depicted there is the EXPS2, which has the buttons on the left-hand side (http://www.copquest.com/75-8030.jpg) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:18, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Oh okay, it doesn't bother me nearly as much now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:13, 14 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::If you guys have 3 minutes to spare, here's a youtube vid of the EXPS2, which indeed does have the EOTech trade on the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpw0IigxQM Plus, at the 1:00 minute mark he brings out a magnifier that has the same flip to side capability as we saw in some video for MW3, I don't remember which.
::Yeah, it is a PKP Pecheneg, Confirmed. - [[User:ReikoKotobuki|ReikoKotobuki]]

== ??????? ==
Why haven't all the guns from the Walther P99 to the Heckler & Koch M320 (above) been applied to the main page? Every image containing the guns have been confirmed as official by Robert Bowling.
:They were on Kotaku, which is not a reliable source, and last I heard they said "some of the information released is accurate, some not". If they have been confirmed elsewhere, please post a link.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:54, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

This isn't rocket science. Those pictures were leaked before the gameplay videos were. Look at the M-4 from the video, then from the Kotaku Link. They're the exact same, and the MP5 as well. They're legit, I'm convinced.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 17:04, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:This website operates based on CONFIRMED information. However likely it may be that they are legit (I'm convinced too) we have to wait for them to be in an official gameplay video.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yes, plus, as the template at the top of the age says, all images must be from ''official trailers''. The pics here are still from a leak, even if some of them have been confirmed. I'd say the only time we should use leaked pics is ''after'' the release if they include weapons that never made the final cut (eg the minigun in the leaked STALKER alpha), but never before. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:18, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, fair enough. Sounds good to me.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:24, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Survival Mode Trailer ==

Look HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDQ2Ow-VfI&feature=player_embedded. New weapon spots include...(please identify) at 0:11, (please identify...maybe Scar-H) at 0:14, buy screen confirms USAS-12 and M60E4 at 0:40, G36 at 0:42, ?auto-grenade launcher? (mk.19???) at 0:48, new telescopic lens attachment at 1:25, riot shield at 1:38, FMG-9 and bounding landmine (unknown type) at 2:04. Please update main page accordingly =D --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:24, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

You beat me to it, was just in the middle of writing a post about this! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:30, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Forgot to mention, at 0:42, ACR using 6.8mm ammo --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also 0:52, it IS a mk.19 automatic grenade launcher!!!! --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:34, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think the weapon at 0:11 might be another AR platform weapon, they show more of it at 0:15. I'm thinking LWRC's M6A4 but they're not an exact match. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:: It's the same M4 seen in the leaks and the E3 footage.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Nah that's shown at 0:17, is definitely a different gun. Much longer than the M4, also the rail system, charging handle and rear sight differ. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:25, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Dammit, I was hoping they wouldn't bring back that juggernaut soldier. Also, seeing what they did to that poor 1887 made me cry. One good thing though, deploying a riot shield squad could be interesting.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:56, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, weren't riot shields also available in MW2? I remember seeing them in MW2 videos. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:37, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::Indeed they were introduced in MW2, but only the AI could use a sidearm in tandem with the shield. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:15, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Aww. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also, here's the list of weapons up for purchase during the trailer: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110809195831/callofduty/images/8/8f/USAS_12_Survival_Mode.png Clicky!] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:02, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The landmine device at the end of the video is an IMS landmine. Information here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk. I don't know if we post about that kind of thing, but claymores are listed on the main website. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

== Colt CM901 ==
[[Image:UK1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Anyone know what this is? I think it's LWRC's M6A4 but I'm not certain, definitely isn't either of the other AR platform weapon's we've seen so far though

Well, since Infinity Ward loves to put Future Weapons stuff in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the LWRC M6A4 made an appearance as a mag-fed LMG, Black Ops-style. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:28, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ That's what I was thinking, the reload animation looks quite slow for an assault rifle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yet, once again, they have put the rear iron sight backwards :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:57, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::Good job whoever identified this as a Colt CM901! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:05, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, that iron sight isn't on backwards. That's the standard BIS for M4's in the Army. Every M4 in our Brigade has that flip up sight. The only thing wrong with it is that it's supposed to be a the standard peep hole, not the night sight that you see on the M16/M4 carrying handles. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 09:51, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::: For reference, I believe [http://www.aresarmor.com/install/media/ecom/prodlg/matechbuis.jpg this] either is or is a commercial copy of the sight he's on about. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:33, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::Yes sir that would be it [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 12:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP5K!! ==

Someone throw in the MP5K to confirmed weapons, it can be seen with a holographic in the vid, after the player tosses a purple smoke grenade for AC-130 fire at 1:08 in the newest trailer! :D Dunno WHY they add it in with the regular MP5, but it's confirmed in the bottom right hand corner. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:On it. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:38, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::The strange thing is that the difference is not even noticeable as the guy holds the MP5K close to his body and the buttstock (the buttplate on the MP5K) isn't visible. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:46, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I think it has a buttstock attached, as far as I can tell. I get the feeling this is the only MP5 variant in the game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::::What the about the MP5A2? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:00, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I thought they both looked very similar (buttstock, rails etc) so that's why I assumed they might both be one and the same, but if they're both confirmed as separate weapons then fair enough. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:07, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::They could have misnamed the MP5A2 an MP5K. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:12, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I also think this might be the only MP5 in the game, and if it is the MP5k OR it is a MP5A2 misnamed, I'm going to get angry. The MP5k is a nice gun, but I want to be able to use a full size MP5 again, like the good ole days. Ahh, how I miss COD4...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:17, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::True to that. Well I'm still playing COD4, huaha! >:D I just played Black Ops only for a little while, I completed SP, played Zombies and MP for a couple of hours until I quit due to the frustrating and the annoying, and went back to playing COD4. XD Oh, and I never even touched the abomination that is called MW2. D:< - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I played Black Ops for a while, enjoyed, then played COD4 again and realized how bad BO was. Recently I broke down and bought MW2 because Steam had it half off, and having extremely low expectations for it, I found it wasn't terrible, but just bad. I still play the MP, but I have no idea why.
We saw the teaser trailer and it is the full size MP5. I'd be damn if they kept the MP5K. Seriously man. In Black Ops they had the right idea of no mini Uzi and gave us a full Uzi, I want me full size MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:Hehe. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
::Seriously though, I don't know why they put the smaller variants of everything. MP5k, Mini-Uzi, and small guns in particular like the sawed off shotgun and stuff. Don't even get me started about the excess rails, which appears to have continued over into MW3. 0.o--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:37, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I quite like the MP5K, but for the most part I prefer the full size variants of the weapons they include. As for rails, everybody knows the more rails you have on your gun, the better your gaming experience will be. *Trollface* --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:20, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
::: Needs more Tacticool. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:31, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
:::^ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:58, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

== M60E4 could be M60E3 ==

After looking closely again at the trailer, I have noticed that the picture of the M60E4 is actually the M60E3 from [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Of course we haven't seen MW3's M60 in action yet, but once again, could be another mistake, or just an early development place holder... Here are the pictures for comparison:
* Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-18-50.jpg
* Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COD4M60E4.jpg

What do you think? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:54, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think they images they're using atm are largely just placeholders until final ones are chosen, so the final in-game model may end up being the E4 variant. Guess we'll have to wait till footage from CoD XP comes out to see for ourselves. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:09, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:: The fact the MW2 ACR image is being used supports that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:45, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== FAD assault rifle ==

Whereabouts in the spec-ops trailer is the FAD? Someone updated the main page but no pics. Here's a picture of the FAD for anyone who hasn't seen it, looks horrific [http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5347/fad3vv2.jpg] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:Just watched the trailer and am 99% there was no FAD in it. Also, the MP5K is actually a railed MP5A2, and can be seen from the side on the ground when the first juggernaut fast ropes in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:50, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::I thought so. :) And yeah the FAD is pretty horrific looking. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:29, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::OMG that gun looks bleh...i'd rather see the F2000 or TAR-21 again, those are some sexy bullpup rifles. But this time please with correct grenadelauncher placement.--[[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:29, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
: Chrausis, the FAD isn't in the trailer, but can be seen on Sledgehammer's site in image 2 as seen here [http://sledgehammergames.com/]. And Commando, you may be right, but Robert Bowling confirmed on Twitter both versions of the MP5 will be included. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 02:38, 13 August 2011
::Hmm... this could prove interesting... if they pull it off right there could be pros/cons to each version, i.e. MP5k lets you run a little faster but poorer accuracy and MP5A2 gives you better accuracy but a little slower. Of course, they could just be making the MP5k a secondary, which would make me pretty mad.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:10, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::It's kinda hard for MW3's MP5K to be a secondary with that A2 stock. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::::That was the MP5A2 we saw, just with rails.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:24, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::But the HUD said "MP5K Holographic". :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:15, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::1of 2 things is happening. 1) IW has REALLY screwed up this time and put an A2 stock on a MP5k or 2) the HUD is just a placeholder from MW2 and will be updated. I can't tell if the handguard is full length or not from that clip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I think there going with the Machine Pistol Secondaries again, perhaps the MP5K is in the Machine Pistol Slot now, makes sense, considering it's smaller profile and IW's reputation, given that they had placed similar weapons in the catergory such as the MP9 and PP-2000. Might have a smaller magazine capacity or trade in something else over the full size version like firepower or accuracy. I know that one theory of mine, is that the A2 version may function similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:26, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::The GSN-19 is a '''30mm''' grenade launcher dude. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:16, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I was using that as the US equivalent, the only other '''30mm''' Grenade Launcher I see in use by US Forces would be the 37mm and that's usually designated to Police Riot situations and signal purposes, not exactly a great combat multiplier on a Sub-Machine gun. And did I mention the GSN-19 anywhere in that description or saying that it was '''30mm'''? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 01:23, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::You said "Similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung '''40mm Grenade Launcher'''" <-(referring to the '''30mm''' GSN-19 that mounts to the AKS-74U). Just making a correction. Anyway I see a 40mm grenade launcher being mounted on a MP5 kinda silly, Half-Life anyone?

== Purchase Weapons like Black Ops? ==

Was just curious after watching the Survival Mode trailer, anyone else think that IW maybe following Treyarch's example and giving all their guns, equipment and killstreaks price tags in the Multiplayer Armory instead of unlocking them with experience and further ranks? I personally enjoy the idea, as in Black Op's it worked quite well, I could buy what I want and didn't need to work too much in order to get it. It was always in reach. What do you alot think about this? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:31, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:I would prefer the money system. as you noticed, the upgrades where always in reach and it wasnt necessairi to perform a gazillion kills simply to get that one feature unlocked, that i like. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:23, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

:Robert Bowling has confirmed that there'll be no in-game currency (other than in survival mode) but there will be a whole new system in which weapons are unlocked. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:52, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== One handed grip ==

I know its not supposed to be a sim, but a one handed grip on the pistols is going to get old quick [[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:24, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:I agree fully.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:31, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
::Be thankful it's just a one-handed grip and not a sideways 'gangsta' style grip. Though now I've said that... --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
::And they wouldn't even have the shell casings eject into the player's face.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
::Would make you flinch if you were playing in 3D. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:08, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Well in the real world you only one handed a pistol when your off-hand is not available, ie steadying on something, moving something, holding a flashlight, driving, disabled, etc. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:51, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
::::We all know how the CoD developers feel about the real world...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::lolz. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:17, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

On a lighter note, they are supposed to be bringing back a fully sized MP-5[[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:34, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:Old news pal. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

== Infinity ward when will you ever learn ==

that russians don't use 9mm european smgs in frontline combat i throught Russians used heavy calber Russian weapons.--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

And I hate the EBR why do they have it in there!

know what I hate in COD games is that the player automatically thinks that they know every gun just by playing cOD.But I still like cod enough to play it--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:They don't really care about the minor details. They just want to create a fun game, rather than to do a research about a weapon and recreate it in the game itself. I myself, also getting annoyed of the unrealistically bull**** stuff that the developers put in CoD, especially CoD:BO where 90% of the weapons are anachronistic. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:14, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

We have WAAAAYYY passed the realistic mark with CoD. CoD is basically a playable action movie. If you want realistic, play Battlefield. Depending on how they present multiplayer, I play it because it is fun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, yeah, the CODs since 4 aren't so bad if you just think of them as action movies. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:01, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

did anyone actually pay attention of what i wrote?- nazi fishwife

:You basically went for the rather tiresome 'an unrealistic game scored better in reviews than a realistic game, so people must prefer unrealistic games' line. This is a fallacious argument unless you can prove ''Modern Warfare 2'' scored more highly ''because'' it was unrealistic and that it would have scored less if the weapon choice had at least attempted to make sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

how is it a fallacious argument, action packed less realistic games are statistically better than realistic, slow and boring games i had proof i added all of the scores modern warfare 2 and all of the scores with operation flashpoint 2: dragon rising on the page but it got deleted because it wasn't set out in the acceptible fashion - nazi fishwife

:No, ''one'' unrealistic game got better review scores than ''one'' realistic game. The comparison is flawed, since you assume that ''MW2'' is better because the weapons used are unrealistic choices for the people using them (something no review praised the game for) rather than because the game is better at a mechanical level, or simply appealed to more reviewers due to the more "pick up and play" style of gameplay. I could just as easily claim that since ''Portal 2'' has a higher Metacritic score than ''MW2'', first-person games with no guns in them are "statistically better" than ones with guns. Would you accept this as an arguement for MW3 not letting you shoot anything? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

thats funny, i didn't know that portal 2 was a realistic war game?

:Way to miss the point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:28, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

like when you started talkin about portal instead of a war game who's missing the point??

:Wow you just epically failed basic logic there ''and'' you didn't sign your posts... -.- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

i didnt know logic came into commenting on a website are you fucking stupid or do you just not get what logic is???

:Interesting, your attitude is just as bad as your logic and your name, you better watch yourself Nazi. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:Popular =/= Good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:: I love the EBR and its still in service. It's not in alot of games/movies so why do you hate it? - Joey1666

You're asking when Infinity Ward will learn? They did, and a majority of them quite the company. What's left of IW is nothing compared to who they used to be [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:09, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I went kinda over board,What I ment about the EBR is not the gun I hate,Its the damage in-game what I hate.Other then that I love the EBR.An about the Russians I was just making a point like it making them look like a terroist army when they are not.Like they could be using a little more Russian weaponry.Right (makarovs men are the terroist if you didn't know),Anyways COD is still my favorite game series.--v 15:07, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[user:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
----

== Confirmed guns still on Talk page ==

The following guns have been confirmed (either by official trailers or by live gameplay videos), and have already been added to the main page; therefore, they can be removed from the "unconfirmed" list on the Talk page (and IMHO, removing them will help prevent any confusion):
*FN Five-seveN
*Magpul FMG-9
*Colt M4A1
*Customized AK-47
*Remington ACR
*Heckler & Koch G36C
*Winchester Model 1887
*AA-12

== Hopefully this game turns out really good ==

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one folks. Cause to be quite honest, it's good that Infinity Ward got Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software to help in the development of the game, rather than just them doing it all on their own like how painfully obvious it was in Modern Warfare 2 (Not that the game was bad in any way, but it could have spent a little more time in development). After all, Raven Software is famous for it's development of the Jedi Knight games (instant classics right there), The X-Men Legends games, the Soldier of Fortune trilogy and a few Star Trek games here and there, so definitely the Multiplayer aspect of Modern Warfare 3 will be much improved over MW2's, and more fun to play. While Sledgehammer Games was founded by two guys who used to be a part of Visceral Games (a subsidiary of Electronic Arts), and that company was famous for development of 007: Agent Under Fire, 007: Everything or Nothing, 007: From Russia With Love (Pretty good first person shooters back in the day when games in that genre weren't copying the whole 'duck-and-cover-while-your-health-regenerates' system like they do now from the more modern CoD games... *cough* stole it from Halo *cough*), and of course both of The Godfather games and the Dead Space trilogy. So definitely the single-player campaign of Modern Warfare 3 will be much better and probably less glitchy and just ''maybe'', a little more 'realistic' like how Call of Duty 4 almost nailed down. Granted, this game and every other Call of Duty that comes afterwards will never be intended as 'realistic military simulators', and I understand and accept that, since Call of Duty is nothing more than a game you play for enjoyment rather than for the realism. But for what it's worth, I'm really hoping that this game turns out just as good as the first Modern Warfare did, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 06:33, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, couldn't have said it better :D I love how any time someone talks about COD, no matter the opinion, COD4 is ALWAYS mentioned as being good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

== M14 Derivative Spotted Possibly M21 EBR ==

Far right picture in second row of confirmed screenshots/concept art http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/183-more-concept-art-mw3 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:34, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I seen it too, over on the CoD Wikia. So psyched that it's back. Also, it appears Captain Price is back :( Oh well, can't have everything I want :( --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 23:03, 30 August 2011

::YAY! Captain Price!!!! I am soooo happy! Even though I suppose we already knew he'd be back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:41, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:::That art looks so awesome <3 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

If you need proof that some people on the CoD wiki are morons, I got called a troll for saying this doesn't mean the M14 is confirmed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:40, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, they also don't allow real life gun info on the weapon pages. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:52, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:: That was to stop it turning into a load of nerds swinging their virtual cocks around. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:07, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Eh, the result is ignoring misinformation about weapons spread by the games (eg that there's such a thing as an M93R). Not exactly an improvement. Especially when the original games had writeups that talked about the real guns in their manuals. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:03, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyswpn6xzQ Bam.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:50, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
: And it's already been taken down; I think it got put up too early. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:57, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Was this the multiplayer reveal trailer? I've heard it'll come out during the live stream of CoD XP at 11AM LA time. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:41, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
::: In the meantime, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaYrfe1S650 here's] where someone else stuck it up. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:::: I saw a hk usp on a guys back. -- Joey1666

:::::Why would a pistol be on a guys back?! XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:: It's been officially released now; Kotaku has an article with it. Some interesting new stuff in there. Bouncing Bettys, anyone? -[[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 07:46, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: Saw a Mk 46, USP Tactical, Remington MSR/XM2010, SVD. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

this trailer looks epic, when i seen the sniper 2: ghost warrior gameplay i knew they would have the msr on every new war game its in battlefield and this (waiting for homefront two lol)

:Why is the M4A1 still using 20-round magazines *facepalm*. Wanna bet that they will still hold 30 rounds? Using 20-round magazines on a modern assault carbine meant mainly for CQC = retarded. 15:24, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: All footage - http://gamingeverything.com/?p=8478 -- [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

== Equipment List (Not sure if it's leaked) ==

So, I was checking out Call of Duty Wiki for some MW3 news and I spotted this: http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/195-mw3-multiplayer-info-blowout
It's a complete list with all equipment options, not sure if it's considered leaked. But from what I saw up to now some new weapons are:
:1. Mk.46/M249
:2. G36C w/ AG36 (YES!)
:3. PP-90M1
:4. MP5 (NOT the MP5K)
:5. AS50
:6. Remington MSR
:7. Dragunov SVD.
:Plus, the G36C has a really badass reload (kind of MW2 FAL-style) [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 16:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

OHMYGOD OHMYGOD THE SIG P226 WASN'T LISTED UNDER THE PISTOLS SECTION NOOOOOOO ARGLEBARGLE AUUGHH BLARGBLARG *dies*--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:14, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Assault Rifles

close

M4A1
M16A4 - 3 round burst
SCAR-L
CM901
Type 95 - 3 round burst [lvl 32]
G36c - [lvl 42]
ACR 6.8 - [lvl 50]
MK14 - Semi-automatic [lvl 60]
AK-47 - [lvl 68]
FAD - [lvl 78]

LMGs

close

L86 LSW
MG36
PKP Pecheneg
MK46 - [lvl 68]
M60E4 - [lvl 72]

Shotguns

close

USAS 12
KSG 12
SPAS 12
Striker - Semi-auto - [lvl 48]
Model 1887 - [lvl 62]

Machine pistols

close

FMG9
MP9
Scorpion - [lvl 36]
G18 - [lvl 70]

Pistols

close

USP .45
P99
MP412
.44 Magnum - [lvl 46]
Five Seven - [lvl 58]
Desert Eagle - [lvl 76]

Sub Machine Guns

close

MP5
UMP
PP90M1
P90 [Lv. 38]
PM-9 [Lv. 56]
MP7 [Lv. 74]

Sniper Rifles

close

Barrett .50 Cal
L118A (bolt action, looks similar to the L96 from Black Ops)
Dragunov
AS50
RSASS [Lv. 44]
MSR [Lv. 66]

Launchers

close

SMAW
Javelin
Stinger - [lvl 40]
XM25 - [lvl 52]
M320 GLM - [lvl 64]
RPG - [lvl 80]

:Is this information considered leaked or can it be added to the main page? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:30, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

== COD XP 2011 Robert Bowling Interview ==

Shows some pretty interesting snippets of other weapons seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUJcoCq37I&feature=feedu
I see there is a L118A? / Arctic Warfare Sniper variant, HK USP, PP-90M1, SCAR-L (4:19, appears very briefly as a name tag), P99 Confirmed (name tag), M320 / AG36 (seen on G36C), CM901 (appears with a Tan Finish, Sniper Scope and Suppressor and firing fully automatic) [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

== weapon list ==

the list is supposed to be real and on the site it says the FAMAS was removed and the AK74U and AT4 are campaign only??

someone get proof please

: Well... that list isn't wrong, but there are more weapons than it states. Look at the Kotaku official screens, there's an M240B in one... which isn't listed. So I'd say that there's more than the list would lead you to believe.

:: No m1911 or Fal mentioned... Im dissapointed if that will be the final list. -- Joey1666

:::Yeah I was thinking that quite a few guns mentioned were missing, perhaps they're campaign-only like MW2's Dragunov. I hope not though, <3 the 240. Also the guy on that site claiming that the FAMAS was replaced by the QBZ-95 is a moron, they look nothing alike. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:45, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== Cheeky machine gun gameplay ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3i-vASNb68 Here] is a short video showing some Mk46 and MG36 gameplay. The MG36 is hilariously badly modeled, ultrasadface. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:59, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Until the guy reloaded it and I saw the side of the weapon, I honestly had no idea that the model was meant to be the MG36... Also, from the brief shot I saw of it (during the loadout section) the L86-LSW has made a return. Unfortunately (from my perspective anyway)it's the old MW2 model with drum mag, carry-handle/barrel change and L85 handguard. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== PP-90M1 ==

This is not the same PP-90 that the gun redirects the user towards. One is a folding submachine gun, the other is a helical-fed submachine gun. They are two entirely different weapons, at least, according to Wikipedia: "other than sharing a manufacturer is unrelated to the similarly named PP-90M."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-90M1] Also, if it hasn't been done already...looks like the PP-90M1 needs a page to itself. [[User:Arcdash|Arcdash]] 07:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-09-03T13:36:43Z

Spanner: /* Cheeky machine gun gameplay */

==Moved from main page==

These are the weapons from the leaked info which are of dubious authenticity and need confirming. Only officially confirmed weapons on the main page from now on.

''Information leaked to the website Kotaku.com included screenshots claimed to be of some of the weapon models for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3. Most weapons appear to have multiple configurations and attachments, however at present the authenticity of these shots has not been confirmed.''

=== Walther P99 ===

[[Image:WaltherP99 twotoneA.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Walther P99 with silver slide - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Walter_p99_01.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:MW3-P99-Light.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|P99 with pistol light.]]

=== MP-412 REX ===
As in the games Battlefield and Red Steel, there is an appearance of the Russian .357 Magnum revolver, the MP-412 REX. The MP-412 REX was a double action revolver with a break open frame and automatic ejector. It was developed for commercial Export by Izhevsk Mechanical Plant but never went into full production due to lack of interest. Yet another firearm that was never actually sold anywhere (except for a few prototypes in Europe) that appears in a Video Game.

[[Image:Mp-412-1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MP-412 REX - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:Mp412_pistol.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

=== SIG-Sauer P226 ===
An SIG-Sauer P226 pistol is seen holstered to an SAS operative's vest. This is accurate, as it is used by the British SAS in real life.

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Sas lmg.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The pistol is holstered to the center of the vest.]]

=== Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion ===
The [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion]] is a weapon also seen in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Because of its black pistol grip, it looks like the Yugoslavian made Skorpion.

[[Image:CZ_Vz.61.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Skorpion Sa. Vz.61 with 20 round magazine - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Yugoslav_Model_61_Skorpion.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Yugoslavian made Model 61(i) Skorpion distinguishable by it's black pistol grip - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Skorpion screenshot layout 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Skorpion model.]]

=== HK MP5A2N ===
The Standard MP5 returns from [[Call of Duty 4]] with an A2/A4-style stock, instead of the A3/A5 Collapsible stock. The forearm has also been replaced with a Knights Armament Rail Forearm.

[[Image:Mp5 new2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[MP5A2]] model.]]

=== FN SCAR-L ===
The [[FN SCAR-L]] is a new weapon shown in the screenshots. While it was only shown used by a soldier on the multiplayer background of [[Modern Warfare 2]] and wasn't usable, the version shown is a player model, and would probably take the place of the SCAR-H. The model has black scheme, flip-up iron sights and 5.56x45mm NATO Magpul. Note that the rear sight, although still cropped, is oriented correctly, while [[Modern Warfare 2]]'s SCAR-H rear sight was placed backwards.

[[Image:FN_SCAR-L_(Standard).jpg|thumb|none|450px|Third-Generation [[FN SCAR-L]] - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:Scar light 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The SCAR-L model]]

=== FN FAL ===
The [[FN FAL]] is a weapon also seen in [[Modern Warfare 2]]. This is the same model, featuring combination of the [[FN FAL]] and the [[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]].

[[Image:FN_FAL_50_00.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL]] 50.00 - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]] - 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[FN FAL]] is in the hands of the character in the top middle frame and in the hands of the characters in the bottom right two frames.]]

=== Short Barreled AK Variant ===
Seen above in the top row, second from the right and the first and second from left frames on the bottom row. Likely a successor to the AKS-74U "SMG" in Call of Duty 4 and Modern Warfare 2, but, nevertheless it's still an assault rifle.

[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Remington Semi-Automatic Sniper System ===

[[Image:Remington rsass.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ===
The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle|Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle]] is one of the weapons seen in the screenshots. This version is the Mod 0 version rather than the Mod 1 version in [[Modern Warfare 2]] as evidenced by the SAGE collapsible stock, rather than the previous AR buffer tube type stock with Magpul CTR/MOE stock.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] - 7.62x51 NATO, with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip.]]
[[Image:M14ebr.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] model.]]

=== Barret M107 ===

[[Image:Berrett M107.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Barrett M107 long range sniper rifle - .50 BMG. Noteworthy is the holes in the lower part of the buttstock and the rail that runs along the top spine of the rifle.]]
[[Image:Barrett m82.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Armsel Striker ===

[[Image:SWD-StreetSweeper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Striker iw5.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
=== Kel-Tec KSG ===

[[File:Kel-Tec KSG Shotgun Oleg Volk 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Ksg.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Heckler & Koch M320 ===
The [[Heckler & Koch M320]] grenade launcher is a new weapon (or more correctly, attachment) shown in the screenshots. This could be a replacement for the [[M203 grenade launcher]] as used in both previous installments, but nothing is confirmed at this time.

[[Image:XM320_stock_extended.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Heckler & Koch M320]] - 40mm, with optional telescoping stock.]]
[[Image:M320 grenade launcherh.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[Heckler & Koch M320#M320|M320]] model, attached to an [[M4A1]] carbine with XPS Holographic sight and suppressor.]]

==Discussion==

Oh God, another Call of Duty. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -[[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)

I see a P90 lying on the floor in the premiere trailer, in what appears to be a subway station. Appears to follow the MW2 Design, with the iron sights instead of a built in red dot. -[[User:Timaman]] May 24, 2011 22:09 PM GMT+0

http://timaman.deviantart.com/art/Possible-P90-in-Mw3-210170147

I noticed what appears to be a holstered Colt 1911 on the UMP wielding SAS members right leg, you can see it just above where the picture finishes, at the bottom. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:08, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

:I saw that too, hopefully the MW1 1911 comes back, it better, but it also looks like it could be a P226 with wierd lighting. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I hope they put an ejection port on the M4 this time.

== Title ==

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

==Issues==

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate [[User:SeanWolf]]

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

:My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.
:You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

I might be the only one, but whats up with that weird aimpoint/ holographic sight combo on the M4? is that even possible?
: Yes, it is. EoTech makes [http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=50&cat=1 optics] specifically designed to be used in conjunction with their holosights. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:59, 28 May 2011 (CDT)
cool, I never knew that. Thanks

==Winchester Model 1887==
What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - [[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.
:Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.
:I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

::Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes ''Black'' look positively restrained. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other '''sensible''' new age weapons. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
:My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::In what way is it outdated? Modern lever actions fire faster than bolt actions, can use non-tube magazines (even detachable ones) and thus fire pointed bullets, and are of comparable accuracy to bolt actions. Aside from issues with firing while prone (which are hardly impossible to deal with) they're not outdated in any sense of the term, certainly not to the extent a flintlock is. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:30, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the issue of firing when prone is -highly- critical when compared to how modern-day bolt actions are used, mostly/all by snipers who fire from the prone position frequently. They are outdated as service rifles, like I said earlier in comparison to semi-automatic gas/recoil driven weapons. The main revolution of lever action was the rapid-fire aspect and magazine capacity (Compared to single-shot/clip-fed weapons of the era), which have all been outclassed by miles in reference to modern semi-automatic rifles. Like I said,''' agree to disagree''', not going anywhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::No, it's definately an issue of lack of will to do it rather than any technical inferiority. Armies are used to bolt actions in their manual rifles and don't see the need to change to weapons that have ''different'' advantages and disadvantages but don't offer a substantial overall improvement. It's hard enough persuading them to adopt things that ''do'' offer a substantial improvement, after all. Also, I have no idea why you keep bringing up semi-autos, not everything is a marksman rifle. I was never suggesting using a manual action weapon as a replacement for anything other than a ''different'' manual action. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Agreeing to disagree, could refute what you said with evidence/concepts but it's not going to do anything. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==Barrett M107/M82 Error==

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== Gunz ==

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)
:Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence.
I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System.
One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

:The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

:You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series ''has'' done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: The weapon at 0:55 looks like an AUG to me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, or a Tavor. The barrel looks too thick to be either though, might be a flashlight/suppressor? [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:10, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==HELL YEAH==

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

: Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

==The tossed magazine doesnt look right==
In the newest trailer I noticed that a soldier tosses a magazine to the player but it's easy to see that you cant see any bullets in the top of it. I don't know that much about M4A1 magazines. Is there a door that opens when it's inserted into the rifle, did the devs over-look this or what?

: Probably due to either being lazy or being an early build of the game. IW's track record is so-so for magazines, on a normal AR-15 magazine, there are two lips at the top of the magazine and the rounds feed through them. The magazine will spend most of the time in game, being lodged in the weapon, so it's not really that big of a deal to me personally. But you are correct, the magazine model doesn't look 100% accurate. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:06, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. The real world acuracy and high detail in the MW games is what sets them apart from all the other games based on modern combat. I hope that was just an eary build.

Sorry Anon, but no, if you want real world accuracy play something like ARMA, or even Battlefield, but not COD. The weapons either aren't handled properly, or have thing on them that would never be, or are mounted wrong, or are used by people who never would, or have stats that don't work for the real weapon at all, or are out of scale, and they STILL havn't added +1 in the chamber. For better or for worse COD is a playable action movie, and the graphics literally havn't been changed since COD4. I can't really comment on 1, 2, or 3, but MW fits your description well, it's not a military simulator, but it was quite good. WAW was okay, but it was pretty much just the COD4 Marine missions for the whole game, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot etc. MW2's singleplayer was good but not amazing, there was too much that was just a little too far fetched, and a few glaring plotholes. MW was like a war movie (Saving Private Ryan/Black Hawk Down/etc.), but MW2 is an action movie, that's why it wasn't up to par with MW in my opinion. BO had potential for a good singleplayer, but the had a serious, conspiracy filled plot, and tried to make it a bad ass action movie at the same time, and those don't go together very well. COD games have good potential, but it always seems to get wasted. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

==Plot Holes==
So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

::The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if ''very'' unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Guns ==

I like the way few of currently known guns are going. AK-47 looks a lot more like rifle that Russian Army may use some time. It has cheapest Crane Stock and not one of most espensive ones (Yeah, Vltor one is expensive as fuck) and handguard is basically one ris rail on each side with rail covers. Not full plastic handguard. G36 is plain and easy which is both suprising and awesome. M4 seems like its pretty cheap too. I like that Czech Vzor 61 is back, hope it will be in hands of Czech partisans. Anyway, few guns are ugly like fuck. For example that winchester or MP5.

Well, game will suck like all of those "new" CoDs from World At War to Black Ops. But it will be atleast a bit interesting. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:04, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: I don't understand what you mean by "cheap". There's nothing wrong with Crane stocks... The AK in MW3 doesn't even have a Crane stock, it's a standard LE stock, which is a good stock. You don't need a Vltor stock to shoot a weapon accurately. AK rails don't have to be crazy railed hanguards like in MW2, which was largely inspired by an airsoft weapon. See Travis Haley's one-off MAG-K from Magpul, using the Ultimak rail system. The cost of a component doesn't effect how it behaves in game, or in real life for that matter, it's reliability and effectiveness that count. What's wrong with the handguard with a rail on each side with rail covers? That's generally what rail systems are. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:13, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Yes, i know. Thats what i meant. Any army on world (especially Russian) would hardly put shitload of ris rifles on their weapon and overpriced stocks. By cheap, i meant cheaper than MW2.

: I still don't understand what you mean by cheaper. How? Like, in real world money costs? In aesthetic looks? The Russians are putting different rail systems in their modern AK's, see my AK-200 link from Firearmblog. Russia has arguably one of the most powerful and modern militaries in the world, what would discourage them from placing RIS rails on their service rifles like everyone else? Tapco, the company that makes the rail system and stock adapter for the AK in MW2 is one of the cheaper companies in terms of quality and price, Tapco still makes good stuff regardless. Just confused as to what you mean by cheap. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:09, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: No one else ticked off that in any of the videos or demos present, there have been NO new guns? Granted, the AA-12 has a new skin, and so does the MP5, but no drum mags for the AA-12? And to be fair, I preferred the MP5K. But seriously, in MW2's Cliffhanger demo, there was tonnes of new weapons and attachments shown, like the ACR, FAMAS and the new AK. But so far, the only "new" guns that were leaked in images haven't been shown. I'm really disappointed in that. [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 12:12, 14 June 2011

== Pistols ==

Am I the only one completely pumped for the P99 and P226? Hopefully both are usable and rendered well. I tend to get more excited over the pistols rather than assault rifles in video games.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:15, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Nope, you're not the only one. I'm ''slightly'' disappointed that they seem to be going with the 1st-gen model, but otherwise, I'm hoping for the execution, so to speak, to be superb and the rest of the game to be worth 60 bucks. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 23:25, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking forward to seeing the SIG pistol too. Always had a soft spot for German guns. I hope it's usable and not just part of a character model ... [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 23:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Looking forward to both, and more. Preferably the USP and M1911. M1911 was epic in MW1 and in MW2 they took it away from multiplayer, and in Black Ops they made it black in singleplayer and chrome in multiplayer for some silly reason. Hopefully they got the silver/chrome out of their systems with the P99 already. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:36, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Part of me says "Yes! A game that you can fire a P99 and it's NOT James Bond." Another part of me says that Hand Guns, unless automatic, serve no perpise in todays FPS world. Oh I miss the Golden days.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:55, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:That's funny, since I PWN most people in FPS' who have Assault rifles or Submachine guns with my '''semi-automatic''' handguns, especially in MW1 with my USP45 :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:53, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::I agree, COD4's USP was amazing. In COD4 handguns were how game handguns should be. Most people suck with them, but if you get good with pistols, they kick ass. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:16, 29 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah, most people in WM1 waste a whole pistol mag by rapid firing at me (even with a Desert Eagle!) and I just double-tap them in the chest, end of story. One time I ran into three guys at the same time in a small room and I just wiped them all out in seconds and then two more showed up (one had a SAW!) and I rapidly took them out before they could fire a single shot. All in all, I wiped out five guys with a my USP45 in about 10 seconds! That's why my friends nick-named me Vincent, you know, from the movie [[Collateral]], because I can take down multiple people very quickly with a USP45. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:44, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::::I start to get annoyed in most FPS when the pistols are severely underpowered. Like in Black Ops- in reality a few shots from the 1911 would put somebody down, but I've had instances where it takes one and a half magazines. I still agree that MW1 got the pistols right, and IMO it is the best CoD to date.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:25, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Thats what I did when I sniped in CoD4. Since I suck at sniping, i usually got more 1911 kills than R700 kills. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 12:36, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4 had pistols right, amongst other things. I am a bit worried about the Machine Pistols continuing from MW2, it's not fun going against snipers who are so well armed. A sniper should have a pistol and his rifle, that's it... not an Uzi... especially not a Raffica that's essentially an M16. Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense. In MW2, snipers use their MP's to assault positions and run around as if they had an SMG. This isn't cool. Regardless, I think they need to make sniper rifles less of a close range deal. People pride themselves on using the Intervention at close range, and using the M40 ACOG to no-scope. This is so against what those two weapons are designed for I can't even think straight. But, this's off topic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:48, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Arg, yes, I HATE quickscoping soooo much, but yeah, the balance to snipers is they only get a pistol, so they (are supposed to be) stuck to long range fighting. Oh, and I hope shotguns are better, not like MW2 1887 better, like MW1 W1200 better. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:43, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
:The funny thing is that real US snipers use a M16 or a M4/M4A1 as they're backup weapon for they're sniper rifle along side a possible M9 pistol which would be a backup, backup weapon. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Don't quite see how relevant this is. As I've said before, CoD isn't a simulator. Also, I distinctly said "Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense", in a paragraph and in a section regarding MW3, a video game, in order to defuse any realism comments. It's simply not fun/balanced, in my opinion. In real warfare, yeah, there's really no room for fairness... but it's a game that can be adjusted to be the most fun for everyone. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:19, 1 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I know, just say'n. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:I understand that quickscoping takes skill, but it still makes me sooo mad. I think that they should find a way to limit sniper rifles to long range only. Anyway, back on topic, I realized that Quantum of Solace actually got the pistols right too. Two or three shots from a 9mm puts someone down and one to two from a .45. This might be because the game really focuses around the P99 and other pistols more than rifles/submachine guns.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Doing something that's silly can still take skill. Putting my hand in the mouth of a Shark and yanking it out again without a scratch takes skill, but it's still silly. Skill can't be the sole factor in weighing an action's legitimacy. There should be no ACOG option for any sniper rifle, especially bolt actions. Period. I'd be in favor of making a 6x or Variable Magnification scope available for sniper rifles (and assault rifles in the case of the former). My point is not that quickscoping is done, it's that IW has created a game in which it's possible. It needs to be made impossible. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:36, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Very well said, it is not legitimate because it takes skill, you might as well put Rock Band gameplay in and FPS if you think like that. COD may ot be a simulator, in the sense of what people use, unlikely events, etc, but every FPS needs to have the weapons used properly, in a technical sense, and so you can't snipe with a compact pistol, or quickscope, etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:12, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

It would be so nice to see a stealth mission where you sneak into a complex (probably as price and soap) to kill a leader and you have to sneak through hallways and vents with suppressed P99's with a fellow soldier like in Prypiat in COD4. WHY cant this happen. It would be a nice change of pace and not feel like a straight rip off of All Gilled Up like Contingency did in MW2.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:37, 06 June 2011 (CDT)

:These are nice additions, but I'm still hoping for an XD or XD(m) -- preferably in .45 caliber. :P [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:03, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==
Is it possible that the soldier catching the magazine could be holding a [[Armalite AR-10|AR-10]] 7.62x51mm rifle? Since the developers finally learned about magnifiers maybe they think they could make a hybrid sniper/assault rifle by using a bigger bullet? I just don't see a reason why soldiers would be using 20 round 5.56 magazines unless they figured out it bigger magazines don't work well in prone. Plus we do see that fire selector switch on semi? I personally think it's a AR-10 with a shortened barrel.
:Sorry dude, but the mag is too small to be a 7.62x51mm, it's defiantly a 556'er. So it's a goof on IW's part, at least for now. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr.
Wolf]] 08:31, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::Here's a thought, in Black Op's they modelled some guns with Extended Magazines when the "Extended Magazines Attachment" was added, perhaps IW has done the same? Maybe the 30 rounders are extended mags, while they revert to 20 rounders for default? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Well that's just dumb. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:02, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::And yet they made it so that an M4A1 could carry 45 round magazines without changing the magazine on the model in MW2. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:15, 27 May 2011 (CDT)
: Yeah, there's no way it's an AR-10. They've already got something similar to an AR-10 in the RSASS, which is akin to the SR-25/M110. Draco, my thoughts as well. It still doesn't make sense, but if extended magazines show up on the gun as a 30 rounder, would work. That in my opinion, is Black Ops' greatest contributing to CoD, taking abilities away from perks and adding them to attachments. Example, the taped/dual magazines in Black Ops, gave a slightly faster reload time and added more ammunition in total. This took an emphasis off of having Scavenger to last any long period of time and allowed people to balance Bling and Sleight of Hand.

: Furthermore, everyone seems to think that IW is making a system whereby one folds down the 3x magnifier and uses the EOTech singularly and vice versa. I really think IW will be using an EOTech as a separate attachment, and a magnified EOTech as its version of an ACOG. I have yet to see a picture with a regular ACOG, correct me if I'm wrong. By all means, it would be preferable to have it behave like in real life where you could use both or the EOTech in different instances, but sadly I think IW may just be saving on development time by combining the two. However, what I think is more likely/logical is for them to include a traditional RDS/Reflex, and an ACOG, while including the EOTech with magnifier as one attachment to make it different from the RDS.

: IW could also be making the M4 with a 20 round magazine because they want it to -act- like a 7.62x51 NATO, i.e. be more powerful, so therefore they'd have to balance the ammunition capacity. IW is notorious for making weapons with silly statistics, like the SCAR-H being 7.62x51 NATO and having a very small amount of recoil on full-auto.

::I doubt that. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::If anything, it seems the most logical explanation for them making a 20 round magazine standard on the M4. The M4 was one of the weakest assault rifles in MW2, so it's logical that they'd try and up the damage on it and offset this increased damage with a smaller magazine/semi-automatic fire rate. It's still silly, but IW isn't dumb. They may not be well known for making a realistic game, but balance is kind of their forte, even if it's manifested by making weapons have odd properties. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::You know what, It would be really funny if IW made the 20-round magazine hold 30 rounds anyway, lol. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:48, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:PS - There is a picture of the MP5 with an ACOG from CoD4 in the leaked pictures from Kotaku, assuming this won't be in game. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:45, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's because they're comparing the MW3 MP5 with the MW1 and 2 MP5s. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 05:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::That's also why I put that PS there, it's a toss up between a comparison and including them as variants. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:21, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Cover Art ==
What is that the dude is holding on the cover art? It first glance I thought it was a TAR21 or something similar, but now I'm thinking its an M4 of some sort, but with an AFG Magpul grip attached instead. Could someone clear this up for me? --[[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 14:09 25 May 2011 (GMT+0)

: Yeah, it's just an AR variant with an AFG on it. It seems that IW has received a lot of sponsorship from Remington and Magpul, so it's possible that the AFG may be included as an attachment, though that's very doubtful. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:37, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: Ahh, its nice to choose having a grip, but choosing the actual grip model is a luxury we will probably never have in CoD. Ironicy, it is one of the thigns I want MW3 to deliver, weapon customization like in Army of Two 40th Day. That was/is a BEASTLY game for weapon customization. Like PMG on console. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 12:26, 26 May 2011 (GMT+0)

:: I think COD's decent enough in terms of weapon customization, one step they could take is allowing Bling Pro to give you three attachments (Not including M203/Masterkey in my opinion) and add a few more attachments that were in Black Ops and ones that aid in recoil/accuracy that aren't sights. Or, the more preferable solution in my eyes, is to separate attachments from perks altogether. In other words, get rid of Bling and just give people the ability to customize their weapons. There's no invisible wall preventing one from putting attachments on a weapon in real life. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:08, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Yeah, it worked for Brink afterall. just make it so having a grenade launcher stops you using throw lethal grenades, or stops you from having a first perk, simple as. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:12, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

== MP5SD2 ==

I think there was '''NO''' MP5SD in the reveal trailer. The COD wikia has it wrong. [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_3] It is a normal A2 with a suppressor, unless the SD2 has rails around the built-in suppressor. Well, this game is pure sci-fi so, I don't know.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Without agreeing or disagreeing (I'm indifferent toward this game at the moment), I don't see anything that would prevent IW from sticking rails on an MP5SD if they wanted. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:37, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Err... Guys? ==

Just remember that there's still no guarantee this is even getting released, depending on which way the pending lawsuit goes. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

*I imagine it'd come out regardless, just without the Modern Warfare brand if Activision loses. You know, like it was going to be with FEAR 2 being just "Project Origin" before Monolith bought the franchise from Activision. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::But if Activision loses, and can't use the MW brand, doesn't that also include, and mean they can't use the characters either? Like Price and MacTavish? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:48, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::I don't think so, even when it was "Project Origin" FEAR 2 was going to have Alma in it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:52, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::: If it is being pushed through to November, it's going to be released. Activision wouldn't risk losing their baby of a franchise to go out like that, they aren't dumb. COD games come out every Holiday season like the sun rises and sets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Flip-Up Sights ==

The german magazine GameStar did a preview on the game, apparently IW and Sledgehammer showed two levels of the game in London. And they write something about "flipping up sights" as a new feature. It isnt explained what this means exactly, nor is there any picture/video material of it, but it could be a hint about it. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:They're probably talking about that magnifier; I guess that means you really can control if it's used or not (D-pad function, perhaps). Games magazines can usually be relied on to get every piece of firearm terminology they try to use wrong since they learned gun terminology from video games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:24, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::They actually use the german term for Flip-Up sights, so i dont know. I posted the question in the comment sections, maybe i'll get an answer. But even if it's the magnifier, still an improvement. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:42, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::The minute I posted this, I got a response. You are right, she means the magnifier. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Either way, seems to be an improvement. Thanks for the info! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:23, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Samopal Vzor 58 ==
In Prague level (Czech Republic), Russian soldier can be seen holding an AK type gun that seems like Samopal Vzor 58. Off course its most probably just wrongly lighted AK-47, but it may sense that he captured it from Czech Army as it takes place in Czech Republic.

[[File:Samopal Vzor 58 MW3 probably.JPG|thumb|left|200px|Well, it would have been really awesome if IW included this rare weapon.]]

[[Image:800px-Sa 58-JH01.jpg|thumb|left|400px|'''Czech Sa. vz. 58P''' ''(Pěchotní aka "Infantry")'' with fixed stock - 7.62x39mm]]

Just look on it - It seems to lack AK ejecting port, it may lack top-mount RIS rifle and gas block looks shorter. Also, body looks almost tiny compared to 7.62 magazine.

:: There's already an AK variant/format weapon that's not of Czech design, IW wouldn't put another in just for kicks. What you're likely seeing is a lack of modeling, or lighting as you indicated, for example the M4 in MW2 didn't have an ejection port simply because it's a mirror image in terms of a weapon model, laziness on IW's part. As for the magazine, the mags have always been a bit oversized on MW AK's, but they're not ridiculous. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:31, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== New Weapons Confirmed ==

From reading several previews posted 5/26/2011, multiple games press have confirmed a few weapons. Modern Warfare 24/7 has a list of these previews here (http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/first-mw3-previews-screens) while the one that details the weapons by name are found here (http://aggregame.com/news/2011/05/26/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-preview/). Weapons confirmed in closed doors preview include: AK-47, P90, M4A1, Spas-12, AT-4, and XM-25. The XM-25 has been called the "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" or "a nod to the crossbow" in other previews. Also confirms the usage of a "hybrid" sight mixing acog and red dot and its use. Lastly, theres a "9-bang" which is a "cluster bomb" of flashbangs and/pr stun grenades that you throw (I don't know if that one is a real life thing but someone who's more versed in gun/warfare knowledge confirm please). Please update main imfdb page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

: Modernwarfare 247 is notorious for labeling firearms inaccurately, they did so with MW2 on several weapons before correcting it after the game came out. There's nothing in the Modernwarfare 247 article that says XM-25, but either way, it's not a sniper rifle by any means. Would be a cool inclusion if it's in. Dunno what the 9 bang thing is, stun grenades and flashbangs are increasingly irritating, I don't think they need to be made better by any means. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

You are correct that the Modernwarfare 247 article doesn't name the xm-25, I merely mentioned that it had a list a previews and that some of the previews do. The one paticulalrly from aggregame.com, which I linked, mentions weapons by name. Many articles of the gaming press, who clearly don't know guns like the people on here, claim a "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" on the New York level. Aggregame.com's article says this in the 3rd paragraph quote, "We see a new type of weapon used in this level called the XM25. This weapon uses a laser rangefinder to determine the distance to the target and once fired, detonated at the proper distance to produce an airburst effect. Anyone hiding will be properly taken out." Now, judging from the grammar used (though this is only a hypothetical analysis) he mentioned it being "called" an XM-25. Meaning that the game files at this stage of development identify it as such, not that he used it and was like "oh I know what this is". Judging from the description of many gaming press articles (again linked by modernwarfare24/7) it 'seems' to be the real thing. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

:Arg, I was just in the middle of adding that :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:55, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Ahhh fair enough, gotcha'. Hm, well I hope they actually make it semi-automatic and with a small overall ammunition capacity. IW seems to shower in explosions and knifing, when they're making a -shooter-. I dunno' why they don't focus on making their conventional firearms better. Either way, nice snag on the info. Though, I will still caution you on MW247, I encountered them in my MW2 forum days and they weren't reliable at all. The 9 bang thing is troubling, what the hell was wrong with the Stun/Flash grenandes? Stun Grenades are -way- overpowered in my opinion, granted being stunned is an effect of a common flashbang, but being paralyzed -and- blinded, isn't. Regular flashbangs are enough, nothing else. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:59, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah, I wouldn't mid COD so much if they toned down the knifing, seriously, it's not sothing you should use because you couldn't think to do anything else, it should be a very last ditch defence, this goes for all shooters. What's strange is when I play COD4 (cause I still play 4 :) ), there's very little knifing if you watch the killfeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:My thoughts exactly, Commando is silly. They had it right in CoD4. One thing that really bothers me, is that even on Hardcore, when I'm face to face and lighting the person up... it's still possible for them to knife me and walk away. Getting shot should interrupt the knife ability, and it shouldn't work faster than bullets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:30, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, it's not that it's one hit kill, it's that it's so damn fast! Bad Company 2 got the knife right, you press the button, and it kills them about a whole second (that's a long time) later, it's mostly an assassination weapon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Just wanna throw out, the XM-25 is now also confirmed by IGN. Link here: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1171345p1.html. Someone can edit the main page appropriately as I'm not the most professional gun expert. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 22:23, 30 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

The "hybrid ACOG" could be one of Trijicon's ECOS models which have a small red dot sight mounted on top. And within a month, everybody will be whining about how "unfair" it is to have a scope and an RDS in one package... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Controversy ==

Well, it was inevitable, but the controversy's already gotten rolling.

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110393-Daily-Mail-Voices-Concern-Over-Ultra-Violent-Modern-Warfare-3 Escapist: Daily Mail Voices Concern Over "Ultra-Violent" Modern Warfare 3]

[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Fortunately, most gamers care about good games regardless of content. personally, I could care less what the media says. Not a big issue, always going to be this somewhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:12, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: The controversy is exactly what they want, it's good promotion. Just like that whole "airport-level" in MW2 was. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 07:12, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::Yup, it's good marketing for them, people become more interested when all the soccer mums etc. cry out about something. Until we see games like GTA actually getting banned, we FPS players have nothing to worry about. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:54, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Killer, Alex, those are the most truthful words ever. They dont care about decency or people, they care about MONEY. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 17:58, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:I get upset every time I see footage of the Towers falling, but that doesn't mean I think such images should be censored. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown Ak Variant ==

I was think the gun listed as the Unknown Ak Variant might be a AK74. I thought this because it appears to have a longer flash hider, which the AK74 encorporates, although I wouldnt hold my breath. Thoughts?

: If you check out the flash-hider on the leaked Kotaku screens, you can see that it's emphatically not the AK-74 typical flash-hider. It's something I've never seen before, it's like just the last few centimeters of the AK-74 flashhider, married to the barrel. Magazine looks too curved to be the AK-74, so it's probably a 7.62x39 AK. AK Variant is good enough for me, CoD's AK's are always pretty non-specific. :) [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:52, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:: On first screen, that unknown AK variant looks like Vzor 58 rifle as it doesnt have AK´s ejection port/ bolt. On second screen, its just normal AK that is on one of those leaked shots. They arent same, as first gun is longer, thiner and lacks top mounted RIS rail.

: It looks different because it's in the dark and is low-res, whereas the leaked one is in the bright daylight and is a high-res closeup. It's the same weapon, there is no reason why IW would include both being so similar.It doesn't have the bolt/ejection port because IW is lazy and uses mirror images of weapons to render their models. Where the end of the receiver meets the stock adapter and the angled area of the receiver around the magwell are dead giveaways that it's not the Czor in addition to the spacing of the ribs on the receiver, which on the Czor are very close together. The magazines are always a little bigger, just CoD's style, and even then the magazine looks just fine to me. It's an AK variant, not the Czech make.

:As for the length, it's the same. What you might be confusing is where the gas tube meets the barrel as the end of the weapon, in the reveal trailer capture, the barrel ends near the man's thigh it's just hard to make out. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:01, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

Shouldn't the AK-74 in the main page be called "Unknown AK variant" or something like that? It's a bit hard currently to determine what is the correct variant, but by the leaked footage, this could be the same customized AK-47 like in Modern Warfare 2 only with different flash hider, handguard (which is also in black instead of tan) and black stock instead of tan. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:50, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: The railed foreguard is distinctly smaller. The stock isn't a VLTOR-type stock, but an LE one. Also, in the CoD Elite snippet trailer, one can see that the leaked Kotaku picture is legitimate. It matches the AK in that perfectly, this is a new AK weapon model for sure not just a painted one from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:25, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Call Of Duty: Elite ==
Kinda off topic, but this site's COD talk pages always end up becomeing half about discussing the game anyway, I was that trailer for Elite, and man, they expect us to pay for that? I mean, it's cool, but Bungie's been doing that with Halo forever, and it's free... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:02, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:The only color that matters to Activision, is green. I don't get it, your company produces the top-selling franchise of recent history, and you still want -more- money... get over yourselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 17:13, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:Meh. Don't like it, then don't pay for it. Vote with your dollars. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 06:41, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I agree, and I don't plan on paying for it. Bungie did heatmaps/statistics/awards/etc for free... Activision is marketing Elite as some sort of CoD Facebook with the occasional prize won. As long as those are the only perks, then I will not be paying for it. However, if they decide to transform it into some VIP membership giving members say, discounts on map packs, early access, or different weapon/abilities that are available no other way... then it's supremely disappointing and insulting to the people who spend an already outrageous $60 USD on the very game they produced. I understand that Activision is a business, and the goal is to make money... but this just seems like overt greed and a way to cash in. It's also detrimental, because for some odd reason, CoD seems to set the paradigm for all FPS's of late. So, other companies now feel pressured to emulate CoD in order to make money themselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:45, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'ts been pretty much summed up already. DEFINITELY not buying this, and I'm still not even sure I want MW3. I saw somewhere that there are no dedicated servers, which was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing that could save it is...well...a miracle. I am probably just going to go with Battlefield 3.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:36, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not expecting much from MW3, but I will get it for the singleplayer, just to see what happens with Price and Soap. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

They buy it used. Kick Activision where it hurts.

Battlefield 3 looks great, really high hopes for that one. MW3 doesn't look bad necessarily, just the same stuff in a different package. Will get it and play it a ton, but, as far as a good game being made, Battlefield 3 is going to take the cake. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:03, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, well said, I don't think MW3 is gonna be BAD, just the same thing again. BF3 looks awesome though. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:49, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Not going to lie, I'm going to buy this to round out the MW series (hopefully it ends with #3), and I'll be buying BF3. I will not be paying a single cent for the Elite service though. There's no reason for it to exist as a pay service. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:55, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

DICE also just blogged about their FREE BattleLog thing, which is pretty much the same as Elite. But free, because DICE seem to be less concerned with making dough and more concerned with producing a decent game and making their customers happy. IW makes their customers happy, sure, but most of those customers value big 'splosions rather than deep and interesting gameplay. I love CoD, but Battlefield is long overdue and as a company, EA/DICE are good in my book. Really looking forward to the Multiplayer footage and information that'll be coming out of E3 in the next few days. Seems a bit odd though, nobody seems to be posting regularly on the BF3 Discussion thread... get to it! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Ummm... is Call of Duty: Elite directly related to MW3? If not, shouldn't it have it's own page? Please correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:04, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Elite is some kind of online service, not a separate game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:36, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet? ==

In the snippet of mw3 at the end of the Call of Duty Elite trailer, when the player is killed the stock of the TSI Vector from Mw2 appears on his back.
[[File:TDI Vector.jpg]]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 22:04, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: Yep! I noticed that too. It's prolly indeed, the TDI Vector. However, I did notice that stock somewhere else on a weapon it shouldn't be in MW3, I can't say where, I just feel like I saw it somewhere. Good spot! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:24, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Could that be the M93 Raffica from MW2? I've always thought the stocks look similar. Although why a pistol has a stock in the first place is beyond me. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:39, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:::To make it a more stable firing platform, especially for a pistol that fires in full-auto/tri-burst. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:33, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== E3 Footage ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfTBe_PJrQ
Some firearms could be seen here. AA-12 confirmed. --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 13:26, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

You can see the AK-74u, P-90, and Glock 18 as pickups at times 5:14, 5:22, and 6:46 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

AA-12 is used for breaching the bridge of the sub starting at 6:16 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:52, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I am nowhere near impressed with what we've seen out of MW3 so far... Good spots. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

2nd E3 Trailer spots at trailer found here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-call-of/714784?type=flv). AK-47 as pickup at 1:29. 0:09 Driver of Humvee screams "RPG!", Dshk mounted on enemy vehicle at 1:40, M2 on automated gun system on Stryker at 2:16, Mi-24 using Yak-B gattling gun at 2:53, 9-bang used at 4:27, RPG (with RPG-7 sound from MW2) fired towards allied npcs at 4:50, XM-25 usage starting at 5:20, AT-4 as pickup at 5:30, AK-47 Grenadier seen as pickup at 7:00 possibly a gp-25 or a gp-30, Spas-12 as pickup at 8:12, Thermite grenades at 8:40, Reaper Drone weapons used starting at 9:25, M134 Minigun sighted 10:32, and RPG-7's fired at player shortly after, M134 magically taking down Hinds for remainder of the video (Hind cockpit glass alone is 12.7mm resistant).
:Wow, four years were not enough for them to realize that there is no such sh*t as "AK-74u". - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:21, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Hehe. Even when I name my classes I always find myself putting the 's' in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I've seen people refer to the S model as a "Ak47 pistol". I mean, seriously, a pistol? makes it worse the bloke who said it is a retired soldier who fought in Vietnam. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:41, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
Note how they say 12.7mm resistant. With a m134 you have 50 rounds a second heading for those Hinds. Now I've known people who are attack helicopter pilots and they do not want to get hit by a minigun as while such things as Titanium armored tubs will take the hit such things as armored cockpit glass cannot due to the number of bullets hitting the "glass" Sort of like how you can drop a quarter on a car window and it will bounce but if you drop a tin can full of quarters it will break the window.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:38, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The worst thing was that you got HIT by the crashing Hind, then HIT the building, fall out of the Blackhawk (almost), pull yourself BACK IN while it's spinning out, and GET BACK ON THE DAMN M134, then, oh we're fine, let's keep on flying... Oh, that and the HUGE BRICK OF C4 that you breach the Bridge with, and it doesn't hurt you... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:58, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::MW3=$60 MW2 DLC. Not impressed by anything I've seen so far, other than it taking place in NY; but Crysis 2, anyone? -Kangabox

Few more finds in the msnbc coverage of E3 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/43349883#43349883). Some gameplay of spec-ops shows (at 0:30) a man running around with a lever-action rifle/shotgun of some kind. It looks similar to the M1887 shotgun from the "leaked" photos a month back. At 0:53 the gamers are using what appears to be the Bushmaster ACR but I may be wrong because I'm not a gun expert. Someone please identify, thanks. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 20:50, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

:Did anybody notice that the MP-5 was called an MP-5k? and that the ACR was called ACR 6.8 --[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

More MW3 stuff. M1887 spotted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRx33M0V6I --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 01:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually, that may be a hint at caliber change options and the option to remove/attach stock.We'll see. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:03, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:^ This would be so awesome --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:58, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I doubt Activision would put something semi-realistic in CoD, but if caliber change was implemented I would buy it just for that reason.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:17, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::: Imagine what an 7.62X39 ACR would be like (it can be modified to use it). Just kill the bad guys and pick up their AK magazines. Awesome. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:38, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 18c ==

Should this not be put down as a Glock 17 seeing as it's likely it's the exact same gun from MW2? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]
:We should wait until we get a good shot of it before we make a decision, although it is likely the same.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, Jazz :) -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

== Unknown pistol from Late Night footage ==

[[Image:FN57MW3.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

Can anyone help identify this pistol? Looks like an FN Five seveN to me (sorry for bad quality) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:15, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yep, that's a Five-seveN alright, cool. EDIT, it holds 15 rounds. Wow, hardcore fail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:I had figured they'd do SOMETHING to balance it, either keep it at 20 rounds and give it low damage, or reduce mag size to keep it similar to other pistols --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:46, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Is there a link to this footage? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-61311/1333686/ Also confirms the inclusion of the Model 1887 in the game --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:36, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

FN five-seveN- YES! One handed grip- meh. Could get over it. Once (or if) they confirm the P99/P226, I will be more excited. At one point, the developer says something like "This gives an action movie feel. We tried to make it a cinematic experience." That is what CoD is- an action movie. If you want a military sim go to Battlefield.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:True that, I will always enjoy both games because they offer completely different experiences despite being the same genre. I'll be more interested in MW3 when they start announcing some MGs, but the Five-seveN is a pretty cool addition --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:53, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Gotta agree with both of you, there, I'm psyched for an FN five-seveN in a game like CoD. -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 00:43, 15 June 2011
::"Wow, hardcore fail." Alex, what the f#ck did you expect from a call of duty game. +1 round in the chamber? Some things will never change. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:53, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Haha, I was never hopeful enough for +1, but until not they'd gotten almost all the mag capacities right, especially since the 20 round mag is one of the most notable features of the Five-seveN :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::::If it did have 20 rounds, people would complain that it was overpowered. All in the name of balance! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:51, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Not if it was very weak, no one complained about the 20 round Five-seveN in the Counter Strike games. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:16, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::There is that I suppose. It'd probably never be used in favour of something a little more powerful with fewer rounds though. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:22, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

:And of course it's probably still going to have 15 rounds in single even though multiplayer balance is totally irrelevant there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
::Good point, didn't consider that. Screw Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:12, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

I am starting to realise that if ammo sharing between primaries and secondaries comes back from Cod4, most SMGs will have an advantage, as of now there are many possible combos (P90/Five-seveN, MP5 & FMG-9/P226 & Glock 18 and possibly UMP45/USP45 or M1911). This would make Scavenger (if it returns) unecessary and would open up a perk slot. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 19:38, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:That would be awesome! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:04, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 back in MW3 ==

Does anyone think the M1911 will be back in Modern Warfare, and I found a 1911 looking gun when soldier blind-firing with a UMP45 in the reveal trailer [[File:UMP45-MW3]]

:I know the shot you're talking about, it could be a 1911, I HOPE it's a 1911, but it could also be the P226 with wierd lighting on it, if there really is a P226. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:46, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope both are included, the selection of secondaries in Black Ops was paltry, more pistol choices plz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:54, 16 June 2011 (CDT)
: yeah more pistol choices because in black ops I only used the m1911 and the python.

:I only use the ASP, I know it was highly outclassed by all the others but it was obscure enough to make it a favourite.--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:41, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:I like all the pistols in Black Ops (except the Makarov, I've never liked it), but the problem was they were almost all the same, low capacity, low damage, like the WaW pistols. While we're talking about pistols, has anyone else noticed that the sildes of the COD4 pistols actually locked back when empty, and the WaW ones had working hammers? Then starting with MW2, it just became part of the animation, so it would fully cycle, then appear back when you started reloading. Black Ops continued this too. The only pistol in MW2 that locked empty was the 1911 because they just copy-pasted the whole thing from 4, and the only one to lock empty in BO is... the 1911. Apparently they just reskined the WaW 1911 in BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:06, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Can't say I'm surprised, I suppose the majority of players don't notice small inconsistencies in weapon function animations. I guess they could get away with copy pasting the M1911 from CoD4 into MW2 as it was only featured in campaign, which in itself was pretty lame as it was the only sidearm I used in CoD4 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah Ive heard about it and sceen it do you think they fix the bug --[[User:GVK2009|GVK2009]] 22:01, 16 June 2011 (CDT)GVK2009

: I wouldn't be surprised, it's kinda become a tradition to have it in the series. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:36, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::They better, if only so Price can have it like in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons Wishlist ==

Any particular guns that people are hoping to see in MW3? All I need in order to be happy is the M240. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
:Hmm, I'm having for some drum mags and Frag-12 rounds for the AA-12. Also, a Blaser R93 LRS2 wouldn't go amiss. Probably not a military weapon, but neither is the WA2000 or the Winchester 1887. *Cough* MW2 *Cough* Also hope they bring back the M93R but fix the magazines to give it 30 rounds. And hopefully they throw in the PSG-1, like in BO, but make it look decent (Not sure about you guys, but to me the gun looked disgusting in BO). That's pretty much my wishlist, I guess. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:08, 17 June 2011
::Argle bargle there is no such thing as an M93R Beretta does not use M for model prefix etc etc [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thanks for the correction, Tim. I'm not amazing with guns, but I hope to improve. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:24, 17 June 2011
::Muh the AA-12, sure it looks cool but it can never, ever be balanced for inclusion in a video game. Also I think the PSG-1 in Black Ops was hot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
All I need to be happy is a HUGE selection of pistols, not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs, AA12, etc, and (gonna get a lot of heat for this) NO QUICKSCOPING. IMHO snipers should be used as snipers, and running around close-quarters with a sniper is simply a one shot one kill semi auto rifle. Pistols I would love to see in the game even though half of them have a guaranteed 0% chance- Walther P99, SIG-Sauer P226/P228/P229, HK P30 or HK45, Beretta Cougar or more realistically the Px4 Storm, S&W M&P, Para Ordnance P14 45 Limited (this would be the best pistol in the game, as I would leave out the Desert Eagle), and to round it all out a good ole Smith & Wesson Model 686 with Pachmayr Grips. I am also glad that the FN Five-seveN is in it, I just wish they gave it a proper two-handed grip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:09, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::About the PSG-1, ALL the weapons looked terrible in Black Ops. JazzBlackBelt, I'd be worried if you took heat for not wanting quickscoping on this website, that would seriously worry me :/ And, yeah, pretty much what you said. As for balancing an AA-12, no, it can't be done, everyone go watch FPSRussia's AA-12 video, especially when he one-hands it; you can't balance that. They just made the pellets disappear after (literally!) 10 feet in MW2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:04, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::'not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs' Haha, as a regular LMG user this makes me sad :( I don't think LMGs are 'noob guns' if employed properly, they are fairly essential in defensive roles if playing gametypes like domination in which points NEED to be effectively locked down. However, I will concede that the majority of players who DO choose LMGs do so in order to hold the trigger down and hope 2-3 of their 100 round belts hit, which is just not on. As for quickscoping, I can't stand it. I feel it's cheap and 95% down to aim assist (though obviously not on PC). --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:29, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::I'm so ''sick'' of the term N00B, ugh. I'm not going to give my "wish list" cause IW is gonna do what "they" want and not listen to "us", I stopped playing COD games at WM2. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::75% of the LMG users use them improperly, like running around not really aiming. I still get annoyed when they kill me (I get annoyed at pretty much everything when it kills me) but if they were actually using it properly it makes me feel a little bit better. As I play on PC there are still annoying players that play outrageously, but on PC virtually nobody uses the mic (on CoD anyway) so I don't have to listen to them talk!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:25, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::I'm the same, though I think getting annoyed is part of the fun. It must be, otherwise we wouldn't keep playing. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::Nah, getting annoyed is never part of the fun, the game is good enough that we can clinch our teeth from the few annoying things and still enjoy the game. ;) (At least in MW1 for me anyway.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::I've never been that keen on CoD4, definitely not on PC anyway. The maps are far too small for the amount of players each server has :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:33, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Love COD4 on the PC, I love the 24 to 50 players on those "small" maps, 50 players makes it a true war! I prefer playing on Hard Core mode, just love it, no HUD, 1 or 2 bullets to kill someone, that's the way all the COD games '''should''' be by default. :) Never played WM2 or BO, they're too silly and Hollywood. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:22, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::::COD4 is by far the best CoD in my opinion. I play on PC, but I hate when there are too many players on a map. I aim for servers with about 4-15 players. Likewise, I love the big maps on BC2, but only when there are enough players.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:53, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Aside from seconding the inclusion of a bigger variety of combat pistols (note that by "combat pistols", I don't mean Desert Eagles, S&W 500s, and the like), the only weapon I'd like to see is a Mark 12 SPR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:48, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be for more Shotguns and to have them placed not ONLY as secondaries, but Primaries too. For example, I'd love to have the semi-auto M1014 or the 1887 as a primary but have a smaller sawn off shotgun or a compact pump action as a secondary, like a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. MW2 with it's secondary shotguns was a bit of disappointment with me. I'd love to see more real life mainstream shotguns instead of the damn SPAS-12, it's overused for god sake, just start adding the 870 or the Mossberg, I wouldn't even mind if it had all the "Tacticool" crap on, as long as it was either the Mossberg or 870 underneath it all. But overall, more pistols in general, maybe a sniper rifle with only a single shot fire capability, a G3 Rifle from COD4 and maybe some really old weapons, like a Bolt Action Mosin Nagant or a Lee Enfield Rifle. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:36, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:How about NO shotguns as secondaries? IMO primaries should be the rifle/shotgun and secondaries should be pistols. Two shotguns? A little bit overkill and unfair.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:58, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I don't know, there is something crazy fun about running around with a M4 and the semi-atuo M1014. Unrealistic, and ridiculous? Maybe, but can't deny that its fun. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:02, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be that we could choose our equipment before the missions. There are some, I suppose where that would be unrealistic such as the 'No Russian' from MW2, but I think it would give everyone a bit more personal or in depth experience if they could choose their kit. I love the idea that we could get the flip up magnifier for an EOTech sight, but in general I prefer how much less of the screen is taken up by the red dot sight from MW1+2. I don't know enough about programming to understand if this would be impossible, but right now I have a bit of a crush on the Bushmaster ACR and would love to play levels with that, and in a few months when I'm having another of my HK 41X kicks play the game again with that rifle. Living in the UK my PC is the closest I will get to these guns, and I think everyone would have more fun if they could personalise their kit rather than have it chosen arbitrarily by IW/Activision who, I doubt, could not come up with one reason, good or bad, for giving you the equipment that they do. One specific request Sig Sauer p226 in .357 sig, they won't do it but you have to have dreams. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:00, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

A Weapon Loadout wouldn't be too hard. Medal of Honor: Airborne did the same thing. Maybe, completing missions, unlocking achievements/trophies (and a separate means on PC and Wii), unlocks new weapons to choose. - [[User:1morey]] June 20, 2011 8:50 PM (EST)

Two main things I'm hoping for: First, I want my F2000 back, but I want IW to get the unique optics right -- the EGLM sight on the real F2000 is magnified, so in-game, it should be the ACOG scope that looks like the EGLM, not the Red Dot. Second, I want a Springfield Armory XD or XD(m) pistol, preferably in .45 caliber; hell, I'd settle for the Croatian HS2000 that the XD is based on. I have a few other wishes (XM500 instead of M82/M107), but those two are the only ones that really have any chance of coming true. - [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:13, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

When will CoD learn? i love CoD but its seriously going down hill from CoD4. they had nice, popular NORMAL weapons in CoD4. M4A1, AK, M16, 1911, M9. now their bringing in stuff that knowone has ever heard of. is it too much to ask for a normal Glock? maybe a 17 or 21 in place of the USP. maybe use some pistols actually being used by actual SF Operators like the Glock, Sig, 1911, Springfield XD. and what is up with the Russians carrying FAMAS's. just looking for a call of duty that had the same quality and standards as COD4.. anyone with me on this? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:59, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:What? The USP is WAY more "normal" that the XD [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

i'd give it a few years, its been tried to replace the M9 (as did the hK45), its employed by a few police forces, im sure its being used by SF. and PS im pretty sure that most people would hand in the USP for the newer more ergonomic hK45, or the P30(same thing but in 9x19/.40S&W) [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 21:07, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:But... The HK45 only holds 10+1 rounds where as the USP45 holds 12+1. :B By decreasing the grip size for smaller hands and better ergonomics it lost 2 rounds. :( If someone made flush-fitting 12 round mags for the HK45, I'd buy it in a heart beat. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:25, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:I would take the fully ambi version of the USP45 over any other handgun. Period. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:05, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74u ==

Shouldn't the section for the aks74u on the page be titled "AKS-74u" and not AK-74u with quotations? IMO it's the same as calling a Glock 17 converted to full auto a fake Glock 18. I don't believe in the "call it what the game calls it" method because that is incorrect. I think we should definitely mention that the game incorrectly names it in the description, but the title should be the actual gun it is modeled after.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:47, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:It uses that title because the weapon is actually a replica of the JG "AK Beta-F" Airsoft gun, not an AKS-74u; it's a mess of different AK variant bits and pieces (mostly AK-47) that's shaped a bit like an AKS-74u but certainly isn't one. Hence it's a quote-unquote AK-74u. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:23, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just as Evil Tim said, it's only similar to the 74u in name, it's a bunch of different AKs, and it's not even a 74, it's a 47 anyway. Someone could copy-paste the description from the COD4 page. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

::Then shouldn't it be titled the model of the airsoft gun? All other pages I have seen that use airsoft guns as stand ins for real guns have the gun(s) it is modeled after and in parenthesis the airsoft gun. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up as I'm not much of an AK expert.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:25, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::It's not exactly the same as the Airsoft gun either, though. On a movie page where the gun in question was being used to play a real one, yes, you'd use the name, but here it's a fictional gun ''based'' on an Airsoft gun, so you just have to go with what they call it in quotes. That's how it's normally done for Frankenguns and fictional custom weapons in games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:Well, technically the only difference is the bakelite mags, but "AK-74u" looks WAY better than "AK Beta-F". [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:19, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::There's some minor differences in the layout of the gas block and front grip (check the CoD4 page images) and I'd agree it looks better to call it by the game name in quotes; it also makes it easier for someone looking for an ID of the weapon to actually find it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::The gas block and grip just look like fail modelling, but they are different ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:20, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for all the replies, really cleared that up for me. As I said before, I am NOT in any way an AK expert. I had read that the one in COD4 it was modeled after an airsoft gun, and assumed the airsoft gun was modeled after the actual gun, not random bits. To avoid making other people confused I will update the description with a modified version of the COD4 one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah I know what you mean by not an AK expert, it took me forever to be able to tell what one was just by looking at it for a sec, and there's still a lot that I come across I hadn't heard of. Same with revolvers, even now, they still all look the same to me lol. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:29, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Other than a few Smith & Wessons, don't ask me ANYTHING about revolvers. But hey, that's what this site is for- educating people about firearms.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:56, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:Lol, well said :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:58, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

It is correct that this gun is not an aks 74u and that the term ak 74u "doesn't exist." However, I don't know where the author of the main page got the information that this gun "doesn't exist." It's called an SBR (short barreled rifle) you can look it up if you don't believe me, just type in: short barrel rifle ak. Also, I know for a fact that you can fit an aks 74u type muzzle brake on the rifle. Most, if not all ak type muzzle brakes are compatible with each other. Just sayin'. --[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 16:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I googled, and there's no weapon listed called an "AK-74u" on the first page. If you can find a fullauto AKM-pattern weapon that looks like the one in the game and is called the AK-74u ''by the manufacturer'', then feel free to add it to the page, but as far as anyone can tell it's an "AK Beta F" Airsoft gun. This would hardly be the first mistake CoD has made regarding weapons, CoD1 had eight and ten-man weapons with a one-man crew and MP44s at Stalingrad in 1942-43. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm sorry for the poor communication, the gun is call a "Short Barrel Rifle." Ak 74u is just a nickname of AKS 74u. Look up "Short Barrel Rifle ak" on google. You are correct in saying that the Ak 74u isn't a "real weapon."--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:43, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:SBR is a legal classification of weapons (shoulder-fired rifled guns with barrels 16 inches or shorter) which require a special tax stamp and registration, it's not a specific gun. It's been applied to handguns with shoulder stocks before. What you're finding with that google search is weapons which fit that legal definition. Bear in mind we ''don't'' use legal definitions here, because legally, for example, there's no such thing as a fully automatic shotgun (it's a "machine gun"). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:49, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Regardless of what you say it's classified as, the weapon exists regardless of technical terms. I was merely proving the weapon existed. Even if it is heavily modified.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:55, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Um, you're looking at dozens of different short-barrel AKM-pattern weapons with that search, the only thing they have in common is requiring an SBR stamp. It doesn't really change that ''this'' AK isn't a real gun, because it's an Airsoft gun based on piecemeal bits of the AK47 and AKS-74U. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:01, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I don't want to debate the issue with you here, I am aware that you are correct about the SBR title and its classification. However, If you look at the weapon posted, you will realize that it is merely an AKM with a shortened barrel, the pictures I found proves that this customization exists. You're going by weapon title whereas I'm going by the weapon itself. A weapon like that could, in theory, exist. With full auto capability and everything. But do what you will, It doesn't bother me at all, However, I think you can agree that this fictional weapon is at least based off a real firearm.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:09, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

The only Aks 74u piece you're talking about is the muzzle brake.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:12, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and the sight, but dude, I don't want to be that guy, I just want to show that this gun could be real, after all, the gun in-game doesn't show any manufacturer or anything, it's just a customized AKM.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:15, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about the fact that the configuration could ''theoretically'' be made into a real gun, though. We know of an ''actual'' Airsoft gun which is mass-produced right now and easily available to be used as a reference, which is all but identical to what is shown in the game. This means it's based on a fake weapon. Whether you could make an actual weapon based on ''it'' doesn't really change that. We say the same of handheld miniguns in videogames which have the "chainsaw grip" from T2 but retain the half-circle attachment point for the ''Predator'' M60 grip: you could make a minigun with a useless half-circle attachment, but that doesn't change that the useless half-circle comes from the Airsoft version we have pictured on the M134 page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:23, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

By all means do whatever you want, you know more about this site than I do, and frankly, I like this site and don't want to get into an argument on it. Either way is fine by me. And I'll leave it as a agree to disagree kind of thing regarding its actual existence. There's not enough evidence to say it does or doesn't exist. So I apologize for my previous remark. I leave it at a possibilty.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:30, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Call of Duty XP 2011 ==

I doubt it, but was just wondering if anyone is going to this? I'm curious if they got all the right guns in the "Call of Duty Armory", which apparently has the guns from CoD in it. You also get the chance to play MW3 for the first time, and a little beforehand reporting never hurt anyone ;).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:00, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:If I lived in the States/had the money to afford a flight to LA I probably would have gone. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted? ==

[http://a.yfrog.com/img736/504/nceia.jpg]

Looks like the Juggernaut soldier is using a PKP Pecheneg (note the distinctive carry handle on the top of the barrel).
There are some other guns lying around, possible an M14 on the left? Looks like a .308 mag to me....

(also is there a way to post an image directly in a discussion?)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:16, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Anyone else notice the annoyingly obvious Remington and EOTech trademarks? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:03, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah I don't like the trades at all, though I doubt I will use the ACR all that much. Good job on the PKP spot Ghost, think you're on the money there. Have wanted the PKP for a while. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:50, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's not like guns have rollmarks in real life, right?-protoAuthor 21:10, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, I don't mind the trades. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:46, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Each to their own, but they are massive so it feels a little like (very obscure) product placement --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:51, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, I'll take overt sponsorship over price rises. You have to remember that games have gone from something that could be made by half a dozen people in six months to something that takes 150-2,000 (GTAIV) people years and costs millions of dollars, and in real terms games now cost less than they did in those days. For example, the original ''Turok'' adjusted for inflation cost over $100 when the N64 first came out. They've got to get more money from somewhere, and you should be glad that somewhere isn't you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::I think it's brilliant. The MW series has made ACOG and EOTech house-hold names to an entire generation of potential customers. How many twelve year olds knew what an ACOG was pre-MW? Or what a Remington ACR was, or FN SCAR? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:00, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::But can they tell the difference between a Remington ACR and a Magpul Masada? But seriously, I don't mind the trades that much. Sure, they are gigantic and wrongly placed, but will you honestly be focused on that while playing?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:14, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::I suppose not, no. You might struggle to play the game if constantly focusing on your gun's trades. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:17, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yeah, you guys are right, the product placement isn't too bad, it's just the oversized obviousness that bothers me. Oh, and I'm not familiar with the new EOTech in this game, but isn't the EOTech trade where the buttons should be? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Not necessarily, I believe the model depicted there is the EXPS2, which has the buttons on the left-hand side (http://www.copquest.com/75-8030.jpg) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:18, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Oh okay, it doesn't bother me nearly as much now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:13, 14 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::If you guys have 3 minutes to spare, here's a youtube vid of the EXPS2, which indeed does have the EOTech trade on the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpw0IigxQM Plus, at the 1:00 minute mark he brings out a magnifier that has the same flip to side capability as we saw in some video for MW3, I don't remember which.
::Yeah, it is a PKP Pecheneg, Confirmed. - [[User:ReikoKotobuki|ReikoKotobuki]]

== ??????? ==
Why haven't all the guns from the Walther P99 to the Heckler & Koch M320 (above) been applied to the main page? Every image containing the guns have been confirmed as official by Robert Bowling.
:They were on Kotaku, which is not a reliable source, and last I heard they said "some of the information released is accurate, some not". If they have been confirmed elsewhere, please post a link.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:54, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

This isn't rocket science. Those pictures were leaked before the gameplay videos were. Look at the M-4 from the video, then from the Kotaku Link. They're the exact same, and the MP5 as well. They're legit, I'm convinced.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 17:04, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:This website operates based on CONFIRMED information. However likely it may be that they are legit (I'm convinced too) we have to wait for them to be in an official gameplay video.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yes, plus, as the template at the top of the age says, all images must be from ''official trailers''. The pics here are still from a leak, even if some of them have been confirmed. I'd say the only time we should use leaked pics is ''after'' the release if they include weapons that never made the final cut (eg the minigun in the leaked STALKER alpha), but never before. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:18, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, fair enough. Sounds good to me.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:24, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Survival Mode Trailer ==

Look HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDQ2Ow-VfI&feature=player_embedded. New weapon spots include...(please identify) at 0:11, (please identify...maybe Scar-H) at 0:14, buy screen confirms USAS-12 and M60E4 at 0:40, G36 at 0:42, ?auto-grenade launcher? (mk.19???) at 0:48, new telescopic lens attachment at 1:25, riot shield at 1:38, FMG-9 and bounding landmine (unknown type) at 2:04. Please update main page accordingly =D --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:24, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

You beat me to it, was just in the middle of writing a post about this! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:30, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Forgot to mention, at 0:42, ACR using 6.8mm ammo --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also 0:52, it IS a mk.19 automatic grenade launcher!!!! --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:34, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think the weapon at 0:11 might be another AR platform weapon, they show more of it at 0:15. I'm thinking LWRC's M6A4 but they're not an exact match. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:: It's the same M4 seen in the leaks and the E3 footage.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Nah that's shown at 0:17, is definitely a different gun. Much longer than the M4, also the rail system, charging handle and rear sight differ. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:25, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Dammit, I was hoping they wouldn't bring back that juggernaut soldier. Also, seeing what they did to that poor 1887 made me cry. One good thing though, deploying a riot shield squad could be interesting.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:56, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, weren't riot shields also available in MW2? I remember seeing them in MW2 videos. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:37, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::Indeed they were introduced in MW2, but only the AI could use a sidearm in tandem with the shield. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:15, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Aww. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also, here's the list of weapons up for purchase during the trailer: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110809195831/callofduty/images/8/8f/USAS_12_Survival_Mode.png Clicky!] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:02, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The landmine device at the end of the video is an IMS landmine. Information here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk. I don't know if we post about that kind of thing, but claymores are listed on the main website. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

== Colt CM901 ==
[[Image:UK1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Anyone know what this is? I think it's LWRC's M6A4 but I'm not certain, definitely isn't either of the other AR platform weapon's we've seen so far though

Well, since Infinity Ward loves to put Future Weapons stuff in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the LWRC M6A4 made an appearance as a mag-fed LMG, Black Ops-style. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:28, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ That's what I was thinking, the reload animation looks quite slow for an assault rifle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yet, once again, they have put the rear iron sight backwards :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:57, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::Good job whoever identified this as a Colt CM901! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:05, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, that iron sight isn't on backwards. That's the standard BIS for M4's in the Army. Every M4 in our Brigade has that flip up sight. The only thing wrong with it is that it's supposed to be a the standard peep hole, not the night sight that you see on the M16/M4 carrying handles. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 09:51, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::: For reference, I believe [http://www.aresarmor.com/install/media/ecom/prodlg/matechbuis.jpg this] either is or is a commercial copy of the sight he's on about. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:33, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::Yes sir that would be it [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 12:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP5K!! ==

Someone throw in the MP5K to confirmed weapons, it can be seen with a holographic in the vid, after the player tosses a purple smoke grenade for AC-130 fire at 1:08 in the newest trailer! :D Dunno WHY they add it in with the regular MP5, but it's confirmed in the bottom right hand corner. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:On it. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:38, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::The strange thing is that the difference is not even noticeable as the guy holds the MP5K close to his body and the buttstock (the buttplate on the MP5K) isn't visible. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:46, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I think it has a buttstock attached, as far as I can tell. I get the feeling this is the only MP5 variant in the game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::::What the about the MP5A2? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:00, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I thought they both looked very similar (buttstock, rails etc) so that's why I assumed they might both be one and the same, but if they're both confirmed as separate weapons then fair enough. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:07, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::They could have misnamed the MP5A2 an MP5K. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:12, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I also think this might be the only MP5 in the game, and if it is the MP5k OR it is a MP5A2 misnamed, I'm going to get angry. The MP5k is a nice gun, but I want to be able to use a full size MP5 again, like the good ole days. Ahh, how I miss COD4...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:17, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::True to that. Well I'm still playing COD4, huaha! >:D I just played Black Ops only for a little while, I completed SP, played Zombies and MP for a couple of hours until I quit due to the frustrating and the annoying, and went back to playing COD4. XD Oh, and I never even touched the abomination that is called MW2. D:< - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I played Black Ops for a while, enjoyed, then played COD4 again and realized how bad BO was. Recently I broke down and bought MW2 because Steam had it half off, and having extremely low expectations for it, I found it wasn't terrible, but just bad. I still play the MP, but I have no idea why.
We saw the teaser trailer and it is the full size MP5. I'd be damn if they kept the MP5K. Seriously man. In Black Ops they had the right idea of no mini Uzi and gave us a full Uzi, I want me full size MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:Hehe. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
::Seriously though, I don't know why they put the smaller variants of everything. MP5k, Mini-Uzi, and small guns in particular like the sawed off shotgun and stuff. Don't even get me started about the excess rails, which appears to have continued over into MW3. 0.o--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:37, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I quite like the MP5K, but for the most part I prefer the full size variants of the weapons they include. As for rails, everybody knows the more rails you have on your gun, the better your gaming experience will be. *Trollface* --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:20, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
::: Needs more Tacticool. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:31, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
:::^ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:58, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

== M60E4 could be M60E3 ==

After looking closely again at the trailer, I have noticed that the picture of the M60E4 is actually the M60E3 from [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Of course we haven't seen MW3's M60 in action yet, but once again, could be another mistake, or just an early development place holder... Here are the pictures for comparison:
* Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-18-50.jpg
* Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COD4M60E4.jpg

What do you think? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:54, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think they images they're using atm are largely just placeholders until final ones are chosen, so the final in-game model may end up being the E4 variant. Guess we'll have to wait till footage from CoD XP comes out to see for ourselves. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:09, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:: The fact the MW2 ACR image is being used supports that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:45, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== FAD assault rifle ==

Whereabouts in the spec-ops trailer is the FAD? Someone updated the main page but no pics. Here's a picture of the FAD for anyone who hasn't seen it, looks horrific [http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5347/fad3vv2.jpg] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:Just watched the trailer and am 99% there was no FAD in it. Also, the MP5K is actually a railed MP5A2, and can be seen from the side on the ground when the first juggernaut fast ropes in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:50, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::I thought so. :) And yeah the FAD is pretty horrific looking. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:29, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::OMG that gun looks bleh...i'd rather see the F2000 or TAR-21 again, those are some sexy bullpup rifles. But this time please with correct grenadelauncher placement.--[[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:29, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
: Chrausis, the FAD isn't in the trailer, but can be seen on Sledgehammer's site in image 2 as seen here [http://sledgehammergames.com/]. And Commando, you may be right, but Robert Bowling confirmed on Twitter both versions of the MP5 will be included. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 02:38, 13 August 2011
::Hmm... this could prove interesting... if they pull it off right there could be pros/cons to each version, i.e. MP5k lets you run a little faster but poorer accuracy and MP5A2 gives you better accuracy but a little slower. Of course, they could just be making the MP5k a secondary, which would make me pretty mad.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:10, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::It's kinda hard for MW3's MP5K to be a secondary with that A2 stock. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::::That was the MP5A2 we saw, just with rails.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:24, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::But the HUD said "MP5K Holographic". :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:15, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::1of 2 things is happening. 1) IW has REALLY screwed up this time and put an A2 stock on a MP5k or 2) the HUD is just a placeholder from MW2 and will be updated. I can't tell if the handguard is full length or not from that clip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I think there going with the Machine Pistol Secondaries again, perhaps the MP5K is in the Machine Pistol Slot now, makes sense, considering it's smaller profile and IW's reputation, given that they had placed similar weapons in the catergory such as the MP9 and PP-2000. Might have a smaller magazine capacity or trade in something else over the full size version like firepower or accuracy. I know that one theory of mine, is that the A2 version may function similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:26, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::The GSN-19 is a '''30mm''' grenade launcher dude. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:16, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I was using that as the US equivalent, the only other '''30mm''' Grenade Launcher I see in use by US Forces would be the 37mm and that's usually designated to Police Riot situations and signal purposes, not exactly a great combat multiplier on a Sub-Machine gun. And did I mention the GSN-19 anywhere in that description or saying that it was '''30mm'''? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 01:23, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::You said "Similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung '''40mm Grenade Launcher'''" <-(referring to the '''30mm''' GSN-19 that mounts to the AKS-74U). Just making a correction. Anyway I see a 40mm grenade launcher being mounted on a MP5 kinda silly, Half-Life anyone?

== Purchase Weapons like Black Ops? ==

Was just curious after watching the Survival Mode trailer, anyone else think that IW maybe following Treyarch's example and giving all their guns, equipment and killstreaks price tags in the Multiplayer Armory instead of unlocking them with experience and further ranks? I personally enjoy the idea, as in Black Op's it worked quite well, I could buy what I want and didn't need to work too much in order to get it. It was always in reach. What do you alot think about this? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:31, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:I would prefer the money system. as you noticed, the upgrades where always in reach and it wasnt necessairi to perform a gazillion kills simply to get that one feature unlocked, that i like. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:23, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

:Robert Bowling has confirmed that there'll be no in-game currency (other than in survival mode) but there will be a whole new system in which weapons are unlocked. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:52, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== One handed grip ==

I know its not supposed to be a sim, but a one handed grip on the pistols is going to get old quick [[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:24, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:I agree fully.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:31, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
::Be thankful it's just a one-handed grip and not a sideways 'gangsta' style grip. Though now I've said that... --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
::And they wouldn't even have the shell casings eject into the player's face.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
::Would make you flinch if you were playing in 3D. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:08, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Well in the real world you only one handed a pistol when your off-hand is not available, ie steadying on something, moving something, holding a flashlight, driving, disabled, etc. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:51, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
::::We all know how the CoD developers feel about the real world...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::lolz. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:17, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

On a lighter note, they are supposed to be bringing back a fully sized MP-5[[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:34, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:Old news pal. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

== Infinity ward when will you ever learn ==

that russians don't use 9mm european smgs in frontline combat i throught Russians used heavy calber Russian weapons.--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

And I hate the EBR why do they have it in there!

know what I hate in COD games is that the player automatically thinks that they know every gun just by playing cOD.But I still like cod enough to play it--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:They don't really care about the minor details. They just want to create a fun game, rather than to do a research about a weapon and recreate it in the game itself. I myself, also getting annoyed of the unrealistically bull**** stuff that the developers put in CoD, especially CoD:BO where 90% of the weapons are anachronistic. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:14, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

We have WAAAAYYY passed the realistic mark with CoD. CoD is basically a playable action movie. If you want realistic, play Battlefield. Depending on how they present multiplayer, I play it because it is fun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, yeah, the CODs since 4 aren't so bad if you just think of them as action movies. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:01, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

did anyone actually pay attention of what i wrote?- nazi fishwife

:You basically went for the rather tiresome 'an unrealistic game scored better in reviews than a realistic game, so people must prefer unrealistic games' line. This is a fallacious argument unless you can prove ''Modern Warfare 2'' scored more highly ''because'' it was unrealistic and that it would have scored less if the weapon choice had at least attempted to make sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

how is it a fallacious argument, action packed less realistic games are statistically better than realistic, slow and boring games i had proof i added all of the scores modern warfare 2 and all of the scores with operation flashpoint 2: dragon rising on the page but it got deleted because it wasn't set out in the acceptible fashion - nazi fishwife

:No, ''one'' unrealistic game got better review scores than ''one'' realistic game. The comparison is flawed, since you assume that ''MW2'' is better because the weapons used are unrealistic choices for the people using them (something no review praised the game for) rather than because the game is better at a mechanical level, or simply appealed to more reviewers due to the more "pick up and play" style of gameplay. I could just as easily claim that since ''Portal 2'' has a higher Metacritic score than ''MW2'', first-person games with no guns in them are "statistically better" than ones with guns. Would you accept this as an arguement for MW3 not letting you shoot anything? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

thats funny, i didn't know that portal 2 was a realistic war game?

:Way to miss the point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:28, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

like when you started talkin about portal instead of a war game who's missing the point??

:Wow you just epically failed basic logic there ''and'' you didn't sign your posts... -.- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

i didnt know logic came into commenting on a website are you fucking stupid or do you just not get what logic is???

:Interesting, your attitude is just as bad as your logic and your name, you better watch yourself Nazi. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:Popular =/= Good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:: I love the EBR and its still in service. It's not in alot of games/movies so why do you hate it? - Joey1666

You're asking when Infinity Ward will learn? They did, and a majority of them quite the company. What's left of IW is nothing compared to who they used to be [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:09, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I went kinda over board,What I ment about the EBR is not the gun I hate,Its the damage in-game what I hate.Other then that I love the EBR.An about the Russians I was just making a point like it making them look like a terroist army when they are not.Like they could be using a little more Russian weaponry.Right (makarovs men are the terroist if you didn't know),Anyways COD is still my favorite game series.--v 15:07, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[user:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
----

== Confirmed guns still on Talk page ==

The following guns have been confirmed (either by official trailers or by live gameplay videos), and have already been added to the main page; therefore, they can be removed from the "unconfirmed" list on the Talk page (and IMHO, removing them will help prevent any confusion):
*FN Five-seveN
*Magpul FMG-9
*Colt M4A1
*Customized AK-47
*Remington ACR
*Heckler & Koch G36C
*Winchester Model 1887
*AA-12

== Hopefully this game turns out really good ==

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one folks. Cause to be quite honest, it's good that Infinity Ward got Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software to help in the development of the game, rather than just them doing it all on their own like how painfully obvious it was in Modern Warfare 2 (Not that the game was bad in any way, but it could have spent a little more time in development). After all, Raven Software is famous for it's development of the Jedi Knight games (instant classics right there), The X-Men Legends games, the Soldier of Fortune trilogy and a few Star Trek games here and there, so definitely the Multiplayer aspect of Modern Warfare 3 will be much improved over MW2's, and more fun to play. While Sledgehammer Games was founded by two guys who used to be a part of Visceral Games (a subsidiary of Electronic Arts), and that company was famous for development of 007: Agent Under Fire, 007: Everything or Nothing, 007: From Russia With Love (Pretty good first person shooters back in the day when games in that genre weren't copying the whole 'duck-and-cover-while-your-health-regenerates' system like they do now from the more modern CoD games... *cough* stole it from Halo *cough*), and of course both of The Godfather games and the Dead Space trilogy. So definitely the single-player campaign of Modern Warfare 3 will be much better and probably less glitchy and just ''maybe'', a little more 'realistic' like how Call of Duty 4 almost nailed down. Granted, this game and every other Call of Duty that comes afterwards will never be intended as 'realistic military simulators', and I understand and accept that, since Call of Duty is nothing more than a game you play for enjoyment rather than for the realism. But for what it's worth, I'm really hoping that this game turns out just as good as the first Modern Warfare did, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 06:33, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, couldn't have said it better :D I love how any time someone talks about COD, no matter the opinion, COD4 is ALWAYS mentioned as being good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

== M14 Derivative Spotted Possibly M21 EBR ==

Far right picture in second row of confirmed screenshots/concept art http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/183-more-concept-art-mw3 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:34, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I seen it too, over on the CoD Wikia. So psyched that it's back. Also, it appears Captain Price is back :( Oh well, can't have everything I want :( --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 23:03, 30 August 2011

::YAY! Captain Price!!!! I am soooo happy! Even though I suppose we already knew he'd be back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:41, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:::That art looks so awesome <3 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

If you need proof that some people on the CoD wiki are morons, I got called a troll for saying this doesn't mean the M14 is confirmed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:40, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, they also don't allow real life gun info on the weapon pages. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:52, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:: That was to stop it turning into a load of nerds swinging their virtual cocks around. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:07, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Eh, the result is ignoring misinformation about weapons spread by the games (eg that there's such a thing as an M93R). Not exactly an improvement. Especially when the original games had writeups that talked about the real guns in their manuals. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:03, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyswpn6xzQ Bam.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:50, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
: And it's already been taken down; I think it got put up too early. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:57, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Was this the multiplayer reveal trailer? I've heard it'll come out during the live stream of CoD XP at 11AM LA time. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:41, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
::: In the meantime, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaYrfe1S650 here's] where someone else stuck it up. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:::: I saw a hk usp on a guys back. -- Joey1666

:::::Why would a pistol be on a guys back?! XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:: It's been officially released now; Kotaku has an article with it. Some interesting new stuff in there. Bouncing Bettys, anyone? -[[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 07:46, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: Saw a Mk 46, USP Tactical, Remington MSR/XM2010, SVD. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

this trailer looks epic, when i seen the sniper 2: ghost warrior gameplay i knew they would have the msr on every new war game its in battlefield and this (waiting for homefront two lol)

:Why is the M4A1 still using 20-round magazines *facepalm*. Wanna bet that they will still hold 30 rounds? Using 20-round magazines on a modern assault carbine meant mainly for CQC = retarded. 15:24, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: All footage - http://gamingeverything.com/?p=8478 -- [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

== Equipment List (Not sure if it's leaked) ==

So, I was checking out Call of Duty Wiki for some MW3 news and I spotted this: http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/195-mw3-multiplayer-info-blowout
It's a complete list with all equipment options, not sure if it's considered leaked. But from what I saw up to now some new weapons are:
:1. Mk.46/M249
:2. G36C w/ AG36 (YES!)
:3. PP-90M1
:4. MP5 (NOT the MP5K)
:5. AS50
:6. Remington MSR
:7. Dragunov SVD.
:Plus, the G36C has a really badass reload (kind of MW2 FAL-style) [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 16:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

OHMYGOD OHMYGOD THE SIG P226 WASN'T LISTED UNDER THE PISTOLS SECTION NOOOOOOO ARGLEBARGLE AUUGHH BLARGBLARG *dies*--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:14, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Assault Rifles

close

M4A1
M16A4 - 3 round burst
SCAR-L
CM901
Type 95 - 3 round burst [lvl 32]
G36c - [lvl 42]
ACR 6.8 - [lvl 50]
MK14 - Semi-automatic [lvl 60]
AK-47 - [lvl 68]
FAD - [lvl 78]

LMGs

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L86 LSW
MG36
PKP Pecheneg
MK46 - [lvl 68]
M60E4 - [lvl 72]

Shotguns

close

USAS 12
KSG 12
SPAS 12
Striker - Semi-auto - [lvl 48]
Model 1887 - [lvl 62]

Machine pistols

close

FMG9
MP9
Scorpion - [lvl 36]
G18 - [lvl 70]

Pistols

close

USP .45
P99
MP412
.44 Magnum - [lvl 46]
Five Seven - [lvl 58]
Desert Eagle - [lvl 76]

Sub Machine Guns

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MP5
UMP
PP90M1
P90 [Lv. 38]
PM-9 [Lv. 56]
MP7 [Lv. 74]

Sniper Rifles

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Barrett .50 Cal
L118A (bolt action, looks similar to the L96 from Black Ops)
Dragunov
AS50
RSASS [Lv. 44]
MSR [Lv. 66]

Launchers

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SMAW
Javelin
Stinger - [lvl 40]
XM25 - [lvl 52]
M320 GLM - [lvl 64]
RPG - [lvl 80]

:Is this information considered leaked or can it be added to the main page? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:30, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

== COD XP 2011 Robert Bowling Interview ==

Shows some pretty interesting snippets of other weapons seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUJcoCq37I&feature=feedu
I see there is a L118A? / Arctic Warfare Sniper variant, HK USP, PP-90M1, SCAR-L (4:19, appears very briefly as a name tag), P99 Confirmed (name tag), M320 / AG36 (seen on G36C), CM901 (appears with a Tan Finish, Sniper Scope and Suppressor and firing fully automatic) [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

== weapon list ==

the list is supposed to be real and on the site it says the FAMAS was removed and the AK74U and AT4 are campaign only??

someone get proof please

: Well... that list isn't wrong, but there are more weapons than it states. Look at the Kotaku official screens, there's an M240B in one... which isn't listed. So I'd say that there's more than the list would lead you to believe.

:: No m1911 or Fal mentioned... Im dissapointed if that will be the final list. -- Joey1666

:::Yeah I was thinking that quite a few guns mentioned were missing, perhaps they're campaign-only like MW2's Dragunov. I hope not though, <3 the 240. Also the guy on that site claiming that the FAMAS was replaced by the QBZ-95 is a moron, they look nothing alike. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:45, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== Cheeky machine gun gameplay ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3i-vASNb68 Here] is a short video showing some Mk46 and MG36 gameplay. The MG36 is hilariously badly modeled, ultrasadface. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:59, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Until the guy reloaded it and I saw the side of the weapon, I honestly had no idea that the model was meant to be the MG36... Also, from the brief shot I saw of it (during the loadout section) the L86-LSW has made a return. Unfortunately (from my perspective anyway)it's the old MW2 model with drum mag, carry-handle/barrel change and L85 handguard. --[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== PP-90M1 ==

This is not the same PP-90 that the gun redirects the user towards. One is a folding submachine gun, the other is a helical-fed submachine gun. They are two entirely different weapons, at least, according to Wikipedia: "other than sharing a manufacturer is unrelated to the similarly named PP-90M."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-90M1] Also, if it hasn't been done already...looks like the PP-90M1 needs a page to itself. [[User:Arcdash|Arcdash]] 07:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-09-03T13:35:39Z

Spanner: /* Cheeky machine gun gameplay */

==Moved from main page==

These are the weapons from the leaked info which are of dubious authenticity and need confirming. Only officially confirmed weapons on the main page from now on.

''Information leaked to the website Kotaku.com included screenshots claimed to be of some of the weapon models for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3. Most weapons appear to have multiple configurations and attachments, however at present the authenticity of these shots has not been confirmed.''

=== Walther P99 ===

[[Image:WaltherP99 twotoneA.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Walther P99 with silver slide - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Walter_p99_01.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:MW3-P99-Light.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|P99 with pistol light.]]

=== MP-412 REX ===
As in the games Battlefield and Red Steel, there is an appearance of the Russian .357 Magnum revolver, the MP-412 REX. The MP-412 REX was a double action revolver with a break open frame and automatic ejector. It was developed for commercial Export by Izhevsk Mechanical Plant but never went into full production due to lack of interest. Yet another firearm that was never actually sold anywhere (except for a few prototypes in Europe) that appears in a Video Game.

[[Image:Mp-412-1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MP-412 REX - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:Mp412_pistol.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

=== SIG-Sauer P226 ===
An SIG-Sauer P226 pistol is seen holstered to an SAS operative's vest. This is accurate, as it is used by the British SAS in real life.

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Sas lmg.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The pistol is holstered to the center of the vest.]]

=== Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion ===
The [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion]] is a weapon also seen in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Because of its black pistol grip, it looks like the Yugoslavian made Skorpion.

[[Image:CZ_Vz.61.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Skorpion Sa. Vz.61 with 20 round magazine - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Yugoslav_Model_61_Skorpion.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Yugoslavian made Model 61(i) Skorpion distinguishable by it's black pistol grip - .32 ACP.]]
[[Image:Skorpion screenshot layout 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Skorpion model.]]

=== HK MP5A2N ===
The Standard MP5 returns from [[Call of Duty 4]] with an A2/A4-style stock, instead of the A3/A5 Collapsible stock. The forearm has also been replaced with a Knights Armament Rail Forearm.

[[Image:Mp5 new2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[MP5A2]] model.]]

=== FN SCAR-L ===
The [[FN SCAR-L]] is a new weapon shown in the screenshots. While it was only shown used by a soldier on the multiplayer background of [[Modern Warfare 2]] and wasn't usable, the version shown is a player model, and would probably take the place of the SCAR-H. The model has black scheme, flip-up iron sights and 5.56x45mm NATO Magpul. Note that the rear sight, although still cropped, is oriented correctly, while [[Modern Warfare 2]]'s SCAR-H rear sight was placed backwards.

[[Image:FN_SCAR-L_(Standard).jpg|thumb|none|450px|Third-Generation [[FN SCAR-L]] - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:Scar light 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The SCAR-L model]]

=== FN FAL ===
The [[FN FAL]] is a weapon also seen in [[Modern Warfare 2]]. This is the same model, featuring combination of the [[FN FAL]] and the [[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]].

[[Image:FN_FAL_50_00.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL]] 50.00 - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine]] - 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[FN FAL]] is in the hands of the character in the top middle frame and in the hands of the characters in the bottom right two frames.]]

=== Short Barreled AK Variant ===
Seen above in the top row, second from the right and the first and second from left frames on the bottom row. Likely a successor to the AKS-74U "SMG" in Call of Duty 4 and Modern Warfare 2, but, nevertheless it's still an assault rifle.

[[Image:Novinka169 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Remington Semi-Automatic Sniper System ===

[[Image:Remington rsass.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ===
The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle|Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle]] is one of the weapons seen in the screenshots. This version is the Mod 0 version rather than the Mod 1 version in [[Modern Warfare 2]] as evidenced by the SAGE collapsible stock, rather than the previous AR buffer tube type stock with Magpul CTR/MOE stock.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] - 7.62x51 NATO, with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip.]]
[[Image:M14ebr.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[M14 Rifle#Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] model.]]

=== Barret M107 ===

[[Image:Berrett M107.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Barrett M107 long range sniper rifle - .50 BMG. Noteworthy is the holes in the lower part of the buttstock and the rail that runs along the top spine of the rifle.]]
[[Image:Barrett m82.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Armsel Striker ===

[[Image:SWD-StreetSweeper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Striker iw5.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
=== Kel-Tec KSG ===

[[File:Kel-Tec KSG Shotgun Oleg Volk 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Ksg.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Heckler & Koch M320 ===
The [[Heckler & Koch M320]] grenade launcher is a new weapon (or more correctly, attachment) shown in the screenshots. This could be a replacement for the [[M203 grenade launcher]] as used in both previous installments, but nothing is confirmed at this time.

[[Image:XM320_stock_extended.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Heckler & Koch M320]] - 40mm, with optional telescoping stock.]]
[[Image:M320 grenade launcherh.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The [[Heckler & Koch M320#M320|M320]] model, attached to an [[M4A1]] carbine with XPS Holographic sight and suppressor.]]

==Discussion==

Oh God, another Call of Duty. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -[[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)

I see a P90 lying on the floor in the premiere trailer, in what appears to be a subway station. Appears to follow the MW2 Design, with the iron sights instead of a built in red dot. -[[User:Timaman]] May 24, 2011 22:09 PM GMT+0

http://timaman.deviantart.com/art/Possible-P90-in-Mw3-210170147

I noticed what appears to be a holstered Colt 1911 on the UMP wielding SAS members right leg, you can see it just above where the picture finishes, at the bottom. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:08, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

:I saw that too, hopefully the MW1 1911 comes back, it better, but it also looks like it could be a P226 with wierd lighting. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:33, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

I hope they put an ejection port on the M4 this time.

== Title ==

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

==Issues==

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate [[User:SeanWolf]]

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

:My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.
:You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

I might be the only one, but whats up with that weird aimpoint/ holographic sight combo on the M4? is that even possible?
: Yes, it is. EoTech makes [http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=50&cat=1 optics] specifically designed to be used in conjunction with their holosights. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:59, 28 May 2011 (CDT)
cool, I never knew that. Thanks

==Winchester Model 1887==
What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - [[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.
:Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.
:I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

::Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes ''Black'' look positively restrained. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other '''sensible''' new age weapons. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
:My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::In what way is it outdated? Modern lever actions fire faster than bolt actions, can use non-tube magazines (even detachable ones) and thus fire pointed bullets, and are of comparable accuracy to bolt actions. Aside from issues with firing while prone (which are hardly impossible to deal with) they're not outdated in any sense of the term, certainly not to the extent a flintlock is. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:30, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Well, the issue of firing when prone is -highly- critical when compared to how modern-day bolt actions are used, mostly/all by snipers who fire from the prone position frequently. They are outdated as service rifles, like I said earlier in comparison to semi-automatic gas/recoil driven weapons. The main revolution of lever action was the rapid-fire aspect and magazine capacity (Compared to single-shot/clip-fed weapons of the era), which have all been outclassed by miles in reference to modern semi-automatic rifles. Like I said,''' agree to disagree''', not going anywhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::No, it's definately an issue of lack of will to do it rather than any technical inferiority. Armies are used to bolt actions in their manual rifles and don't see the need to change to weapons that have ''different'' advantages and disadvantages but don't offer a substantial overall improvement. It's hard enough persuading them to adopt things that ''do'' offer a substantial improvement, after all. Also, I have no idea why you keep bringing up semi-autos, not everything is a marksman rifle. I was never suggesting using a manual action weapon as a replacement for anything other than a ''different'' manual action. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
::Agreeing to disagree, could refute what you said with evidence/concepts but it's not going to do anything. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==Barrett M107/M82 Error==

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== Gunz ==

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)
:Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence.
I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System.
One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

:The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

:You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series ''has'' done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: The weapon at 0:55 looks like an AUG to me. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

My thoughts exactly, or a Tavor. The barrel looks too thick to be either though, might be a flashlight/suppressor? [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:10, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

==HELL YEAH==

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

: Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

==The tossed magazine doesnt look right==
In the newest trailer I noticed that a soldier tosses a magazine to the player but it's easy to see that you cant see any bullets in the top of it. I don't know that much about M4A1 magazines. Is there a door that opens when it's inserted into the rifle, did the devs over-look this or what?

: Probably due to either being lazy or being an early build of the game. IW's track record is so-so for magazines, on a normal AR-15 magazine, there are two lips at the top of the magazine and the rounds feed through them. The magazine will spend most of the time in game, being lodged in the weapon, so it's not really that big of a deal to me personally. But you are correct, the magazine model doesn't look 100% accurate. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:06, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. The real world acuracy and high detail in the MW games is what sets them apart from all the other games based on modern combat. I hope that was just an eary build.

Sorry Anon, but no, if you want real world accuracy play something like ARMA, or even Battlefield, but not COD. The weapons either aren't handled properly, or have thing on them that would never be, or are mounted wrong, or are used by people who never would, or have stats that don't work for the real weapon at all, or are out of scale, and they STILL havn't added +1 in the chamber. For better or for worse COD is a playable action movie, and the graphics literally havn't been changed since COD4. I can't really comment on 1, 2, or 3, but MW fits your description well, it's not a military simulator, but it was quite good. WAW was okay, but it was pretty much just the COD4 Marine missions for the whole game, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot etc. MW2's singleplayer was good but not amazing, there was too much that was just a little too far fetched, and a few glaring plotholes. MW was like a war movie (Saving Private Ryan/Black Hawk Down/etc.), but MW2 is an action movie, that's why it wasn't up to par with MW in my opinion. BO had potential for a good singleplayer, but the had a serious, conspiracy filled plot, and tried to make it a bad ass action movie at the same time, and those don't go together very well. COD games have good potential, but it always seems to get wasted. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

==Plot Holes==
So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

::The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if ''very'' unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Guns ==

I like the way few of currently known guns are going. AK-47 looks a lot more like rifle that Russian Army may use some time. It has cheapest Crane Stock and not one of most espensive ones (Yeah, Vltor one is expensive as fuck) and handguard is basically one ris rail on each side with rail covers. Not full plastic handguard. G36 is plain and easy which is both suprising and awesome. M4 seems like its pretty cheap too. I like that Czech Vzor 61 is back, hope it will be in hands of Czech partisans. Anyway, few guns are ugly like fuck. For example that winchester or MP5.

Well, game will suck like all of those "new" CoDs from World At War to Black Ops. But it will be atleast a bit interesting. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:04, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: I don't understand what you mean by "cheap". There's nothing wrong with Crane stocks... The AK in MW3 doesn't even have a Crane stock, it's a standard LE stock, which is a good stock. You don't need a Vltor stock to shoot a weapon accurately. AK rails don't have to be crazy railed hanguards like in MW2, which was largely inspired by an airsoft weapon. See Travis Haley's one-off MAG-K from Magpul, using the Ultimak rail system. The cost of a component doesn't effect how it behaves in game, or in real life for that matter, it's reliability and effectiveness that count. What's wrong with the handguard with a rail on each side with rail covers? That's generally what rail systems are. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:13, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Yes, i know. Thats what i meant. Any army on world (especially Russian) would hardly put shitload of ris rifles on their weapon and overpriced stocks. By cheap, i meant cheaper than MW2.

: I still don't understand what you mean by cheaper. How? Like, in real world money costs? In aesthetic looks? The Russians are putting different rail systems in their modern AK's, see my AK-200 link from Firearmblog. Russia has arguably one of the most powerful and modern militaries in the world, what would discourage them from placing RIS rails on their service rifles like everyone else? Tapco, the company that makes the rail system and stock adapter for the AK in MW2 is one of the cheaper companies in terms of quality and price, Tapco still makes good stuff regardless. Just confused as to what you mean by cheap. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:09, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: No one else ticked off that in any of the videos or demos present, there have been NO new guns? Granted, the AA-12 has a new skin, and so does the MP5, but no drum mags for the AA-12? And to be fair, I preferred the MP5K. But seriously, in MW2's Cliffhanger demo, there was tonnes of new weapons and attachments shown, like the ACR, FAMAS and the new AK. But so far, the only "new" guns that were leaked in images haven't been shown. I'm really disappointed in that. [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 12:12, 14 June 2011

== Pistols ==

Am I the only one completely pumped for the P99 and P226? Hopefully both are usable and rendered well. I tend to get more excited over the pistols rather than assault rifles in video games.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:15, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Nope, you're not the only one. I'm ''slightly'' disappointed that they seem to be going with the 1st-gen model, but otherwise, I'm hoping for the execution, so to speak, to be superb and the rest of the game to be worth 60 bucks. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 23:25, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

I'm looking forward to seeing the SIG pistol too. Always had a soft spot for German guns. I hope it's usable and not just part of a character model ... [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 23:33, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

: Looking forward to both, and more. Preferably the USP and M1911. M1911 was epic in MW1 and in MW2 they took it away from multiplayer, and in Black Ops they made it black in singleplayer and chrome in multiplayer for some silly reason. Hopefully they got the silver/chrome out of their systems with the P99 already. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:36, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

Part of me says "Yes! A game that you can fire a P99 and it's NOT James Bond." Another part of me says that Hand Guns, unless automatic, serve no perpise in todays FPS world. Oh I miss the Golden days.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:55, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:That's funny, since I PWN most people in FPS' who have Assault rifles or Submachine guns with my '''semi-automatic''' handguns, especially in MW1 with my USP45 :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:53, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::I agree, COD4's USP was amazing. In COD4 handguns were how game handguns should be. Most people suck with them, but if you get good with pistols, they kick ass. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:16, 29 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Yeah, most people in WM1 waste a whole pistol mag by rapid firing at me (even with a Desert Eagle!) and I just double-tap them in the chest, end of story. One time I ran into three guys at the same time in a small room and I just wiped them all out in seconds and then two more showed up (one had a SAW!) and I rapidly took them out before they could fire a single shot. All in all, I wiped out five guys with a my USP45 in about 10 seconds! That's why my friends nick-named me Vincent, you know, from the movie [[Collateral]], because I can take down multiple people very quickly with a USP45. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:44, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::::I start to get annoyed in most FPS when the pistols are severely underpowered. Like in Black Ops- in reality a few shots from the 1911 would put somebody down, but I've had instances where it takes one and a half magazines. I still agree that MW1 got the pistols right, and IMO it is the best CoD to date.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:25, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Thats what I did when I sniped in CoD4. Since I suck at sniping, i usually got more 1911 kills than R700 kills. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 12:36, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I agree, COD4 had pistols right, amongst other things. I am a bit worried about the Machine Pistols continuing from MW2, it's not fun going against snipers who are so well armed. A sniper should have a pistol and his rifle, that's it... not an Uzi... especially not a Raffica that's essentially an M16. Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense. In MW2, snipers use their MP's to assault positions and run around as if they had an SMG. This isn't cool. Regardless, I think they need to make sniper rifles less of a close range deal. People pride themselves on using the Intervention at close range, and using the M40 ACOG to no-scope. This is so against what those two weapons are designed for I can't even think straight. But, this's off topic. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:48, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

Arg, yes, I HATE quickscoping soooo much, but yeah, the balance to snipers is they only get a pistol, so they (are supposed to be) stuck to long range fighting. Oh, and I hope shotguns are better, not like MW2 1887 better, like MW1 W1200 better. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:43, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
:The funny thing is that real US snipers use a M16 or a M4/M4A1 as they're backup weapon for they're sniper rifle along side a possible M9 pistol which would be a backup, backup weapon. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Don't quite see how relevant this is. As I've said before, CoD isn't a simulator. Also, I distinctly said "Snipers in video games should be confined to long range, with their pistols being used for defense", in a paragraph and in a section regarding MW3, a video game, in order to defuse any realism comments. It's simply not fun/balanced, in my opinion. In real warfare, yeah, there's really no room for fairness... but it's a game that can be adjusted to be the most fun for everyone. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:19, 1 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I know, just say'n. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:07, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:I understand that quickscoping takes skill, but it still makes me sooo mad. I think that they should find a way to limit sniper rifles to long range only. Anyway, back on topic, I realized that Quantum of Solace actually got the pistols right too. Two or three shots from a 9mm puts someone down and one to two from a .45. This might be because the game really focuses around the P99 and other pistols more than rifles/submachine guns.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Doing something that's silly can still take skill. Putting my hand in the mouth of a Shark and yanking it out again without a scratch takes skill, but it's still silly. Skill can't be the sole factor in weighing an action's legitimacy. There should be no ACOG option for any sniper rifle, especially bolt actions. Period. I'd be in favor of making a 6x or Variable Magnification scope available for sniper rifles (and assault rifles in the case of the former). My point is not that quickscoping is done, it's that IW has created a game in which it's possible. It needs to be made impossible. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:36, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

::Very well said, it is not legitimate because it takes skill, you might as well put Rock Band gameplay in and FPS if you think like that. COD may ot be a simulator, in the sense of what people use, unlikely events, etc, but every FPS needs to have the weapons used properly, in a technical sense, and so you can't snipe with a compact pistol, or quickscope, etc. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:12, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

It would be so nice to see a stealth mission where you sneak into a complex (probably as price and soap) to kill a leader and you have to sneak through hallways and vents with suppressed P99's with a fellow soldier like in Prypiat in COD4. WHY cant this happen. It would be a nice change of pace and not feel like a straight rip off of All Gilled Up like Contingency did in MW2.[[User:PP7Silenced|PP7Silenced]] 14:37, 06 June 2011 (CDT)

:These are nice additions, but I'm still hoping for an XD or XD(m) -- preferably in .45 caliber. :P [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:03, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== M4A1 ==
Is it possible that the soldier catching the magazine could be holding a [[Armalite AR-10|AR-10]] 7.62x51mm rifle? Since the developers finally learned about magnifiers maybe they think they could make a hybrid sniper/assault rifle by using a bigger bullet? I just don't see a reason why soldiers would be using 20 round 5.56 magazines unless they figured out it bigger magazines don't work well in prone. Plus we do see that fire selector switch on semi? I personally think it's a AR-10 with a shortened barrel.
:Sorry dude, but the mag is too small to be a 7.62x51mm, it's defiantly a 556'er. So it's a goof on IW's part, at least for now. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr.
Wolf]] 08:31, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::Here's a thought, in Black Op's they modelled some guns with Extended Magazines when the "Extended Magazines Attachment" was added, perhaps IW has done the same? Maybe the 30 rounders are extended mags, while they revert to 20 rounders for default? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::Well that's just dumb. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:02, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::And yet they made it so that an M4A1 could carry 45 round magazines without changing the magazine on the model in MW2. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:15, 27 May 2011 (CDT)
: Yeah, there's no way it's an AR-10. They've already got something similar to an AR-10 in the RSASS, which is akin to the SR-25/M110. Draco, my thoughts as well. It still doesn't make sense, but if extended magazines show up on the gun as a 30 rounder, would work. That in my opinion, is Black Ops' greatest contributing to CoD, taking abilities away from perks and adding them to attachments. Example, the taped/dual magazines in Black Ops, gave a slightly faster reload time and added more ammunition in total. This took an emphasis off of having Scavenger to last any long period of time and allowed people to balance Bling and Sleight of Hand.

: Furthermore, everyone seems to think that IW is making a system whereby one folds down the 3x magnifier and uses the EOTech singularly and vice versa. I really think IW will be using an EOTech as a separate attachment, and a magnified EOTech as its version of an ACOG. I have yet to see a picture with a regular ACOG, correct me if I'm wrong. By all means, it would be preferable to have it behave like in real life where you could use both or the EOTech in different instances, but sadly I think IW may just be saving on development time by combining the two. However, what I think is more likely/logical is for them to include a traditional RDS/Reflex, and an ACOG, while including the EOTech with magnifier as one attachment to make it different from the RDS.

: IW could also be making the M4 with a 20 round magazine because they want it to -act- like a 7.62x51 NATO, i.e. be more powerful, so therefore they'd have to balance the ammunition capacity. IW is notorious for making weapons with silly statistics, like the SCAR-H being 7.62x51 NATO and having a very small amount of recoil on full-auto.

::I doubt that. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:05, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:::If anything, it seems the most logical explanation for them making a 20 round magazine standard on the M4. The M4 was one of the weakest assault rifles in MW2, so it's logical that they'd try and up the damage on it and offset this increased damage with a smaller magazine/semi-automatic fire rate. It's still silly, but IW isn't dumb. They may not be well known for making a realistic game, but balance is kind of their forte, even if it's manifested by making weapons have odd properties. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
::::You know what, It would be really funny if IW made the 20-round magazine hold 30 rounds anyway, lol. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:48, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:PS - There is a picture of the MP5 with an ACOG from CoD4 in the leaked pictures from Kotaku, assuming this won't be in game. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:45, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's because they're comparing the MW3 MP5 with the MW1 and 2 MP5s. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 05:14, 26 May 2011 (CDT)
::That's also why I put that PS there, it's a toss up between a comparison and including them as variants. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:21, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Cover Art ==
What is that the dude is holding on the cover art? It first glance I thought it was a TAR21 or something similar, but now I'm thinking its an M4 of some sort, but with an AFG Magpul grip attached instead. Could someone clear this up for me? --[[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 14:09 25 May 2011 (GMT+0)

: Yeah, it's just an AR variant with an AFG on it. It seems that IW has received a lot of sponsorship from Remington and Magpul, so it's possible that the AFG may be included as an attachment, though that's very doubtful. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:37, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

: Ahh, its nice to choose having a grip, but choosing the actual grip model is a luxury we will probably never have in CoD. Ironicy, it is one of the thigns I want MW3 to deliver, weapon customization like in Army of Two 40th Day. That was/is a BEASTLY game for weapon customization. Like PMG on console. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 12:26, 26 May 2011 (GMT+0)

:: I think COD's decent enough in terms of weapon customization, one step they could take is allowing Bling Pro to give you three attachments (Not including M203/Masterkey in my opinion) and add a few more attachments that were in Black Ops and ones that aid in recoil/accuracy that aren't sights. Or, the more preferable solution in my eyes, is to separate attachments from perks altogether. In other words, get rid of Bling and just give people the ability to customize their weapons. There's no invisible wall preventing one from putting attachments on a weapon in real life. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 20:08, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Yeah, it worked for Brink afterall. just make it so having a grenade launcher stops you using throw lethal grenades, or stops you from having a first perk, simple as. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 09:12, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

== MP5SD2 ==

I think there was '''NO''' MP5SD in the reveal trailer. The COD wikia has it wrong. [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_3] It is a normal A2 with a suppressor, unless the SD2 has rails around the built-in suppressor. Well, this game is pure sci-fi so, I don't know.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:29, 25 May 2011 (CDT)
:Without agreeing or disagreeing (I'm indifferent toward this game at the moment), I don't see anything that would prevent IW from sticking rails on an MP5SD if they wanted. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:37, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Err... Guys? ==

Just remember that there's still no guarantee this is even getting released, depending on which way the pending lawsuit goes. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

*I imagine it'd come out regardless, just without the Modern Warfare brand if Activision loses. You know, like it was going to be with FEAR 2 being just "Project Origin" before Monolith bought the franchise from Activision. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::But if Activision loses, and can't use the MW brand, doesn't that also include, and mean they can't use the characters either? Like Price and MacTavish? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:48, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::I don't think so, even when it was "Project Origin" FEAR 2 was going to have Alma in it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:52, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::: If it is being pushed through to November, it's going to be released. Activision wouldn't risk losing their baby of a franchise to go out like that, they aren't dumb. COD games come out every Holiday season like the sun rises and sets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Flip-Up Sights ==

The german magazine GameStar did a preview on the game, apparently IW and Sledgehammer showed two levels of the game in London. And they write something about "flipping up sights" as a new feature. It isnt explained what this means exactly, nor is there any picture/video material of it, but it could be a hint about it. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:20, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:They're probably talking about that magnifier; I guess that means you really can control if it's used or not (D-pad function, perhaps). Games magazines can usually be relied on to get every piece of firearm terminology they try to use wrong since they learned gun terminology from video games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:24, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

::They actually use the german term for Flip-Up sights, so i dont know. I posted the question in the comment sections, maybe i'll get an answer. But even if it's the magnifier, still an improvement. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:42, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::The minute I posted this, I got a response. You are right, she means the magnifier. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 09:44, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Either way, seems to be an improvement. Thanks for the info! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:23, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Samopal Vzor 58 ==
In Prague level (Czech Republic), Russian soldier can be seen holding an AK type gun that seems like Samopal Vzor 58. Off course its most probably just wrongly lighted AK-47, but it may sense that he captured it from Czech Army as it takes place in Czech Republic.

[[File:Samopal Vzor 58 MW3 probably.JPG|thumb|left|200px|Well, it would have been really awesome if IW included this rare weapon.]]

[[Image:800px-Sa 58-JH01.jpg|thumb|left|400px|'''Czech Sa. vz. 58P''' ''(Pěchotní aka "Infantry")'' with fixed stock - 7.62x39mm]]

Just look on it - It seems to lack AK ejecting port, it may lack top-mount RIS rifle and gas block looks shorter. Also, body looks almost tiny compared to 7.62 magazine.

:: There's already an AK variant/format weapon that's not of Czech design, IW wouldn't put another in just for kicks. What you're likely seeing is a lack of modeling, or lighting as you indicated, for example the M4 in MW2 didn't have an ejection port simply because it's a mirror image in terms of a weapon model, laziness on IW's part. As for the magazine, the mags have always been a bit oversized on MW AK's, but they're not ridiculous. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:31, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== New Weapons Confirmed ==

From reading several previews posted 5/26/2011, multiple games press have confirmed a few weapons. Modern Warfare 24/7 has a list of these previews here (http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/first-mw3-previews-screens) while the one that details the weapons by name are found here (http://aggregame.com/news/2011/05/26/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-preview/). Weapons confirmed in closed doors preview include: AK-47, P90, M4A1, Spas-12, AT-4, and XM-25. The XM-25 has been called the "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" or "a nod to the crossbow" in other previews. Also confirms the usage of a "hybrid" sight mixing acog and red dot and its use. Lastly, theres a "9-bang" which is a "cluster bomb" of flashbangs and/pr stun grenades that you throw (I don't know if that one is a real life thing but someone who's more versed in gun/warfare knowledge confirm please). Please update main imfdb page accordingly.--[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

: Modernwarfare 247 is notorious for labeling firearms inaccurately, they did so with MW2 on several weapons before correcting it after the game came out. There's nothing in the Modernwarfare 247 article that says XM-25, but either way, it's not a sniper rifle by any means. Would be a cool inclusion if it's in. Dunno what the 9 bang thing is, stun grenades and flashbangs are increasingly irritating, I don't think they need to be made better by any means. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

You are correct that the Modernwarfare 247 article doesn't name the xm-25, I merely mentioned that it had a list a previews and that some of the previews do. The one paticulalrly from aggregame.com, which I linked, mentions weapons by name. Many articles of the gaming press, who clearly don't know guns like the people on here, claim a "sniper rifle that shoots grenades" on the New York level. Aggregame.com's article says this in the 3rd paragraph quote, "We see a new type of weapon used in this level called the XM25. This weapon uses a laser rangefinder to determine the distance to the target and once fired, detonated at the proper distance to produce an airburst effect. Anyone hiding will be properly taken out." Now, judging from the grammar used (though this is only a hypothetical analysis) he mentioned it being "called" an XM-25. Meaning that the game files at this stage of development identify it as such, not that he used it and was like "oh I know what this is". Judging from the description of many gaming press articles (again linked by modernwarfare24/7) it 'seems' to be the real thing. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

:Arg, I was just in the middle of adding that :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:55, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:: Ahhh fair enough, gotcha'. Hm, well I hope they actually make it semi-automatic and with a small overall ammunition capacity. IW seems to shower in explosions and knifing, when they're making a -shooter-. I dunno' why they don't focus on making their conventional firearms better. Either way, nice snag on the info. Though, I will still caution you on MW247, I encountered them in my MW2 forum days and they weren't reliable at all. The 9 bang thing is troubling, what the hell was wrong with the Stun/Flash grenandes? Stun Grenades are -way- overpowered in my opinion, granted being stunned is an effect of a common flashbang, but being paralyzed -and- blinded, isn't. Regular flashbangs are enough, nothing else. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:59, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Yeah, I wouldn't mid COD so much if they toned down the knifing, seriously, it's not sothing you should use because you couldn't think to do anything else, it should be a very last ditch defence, this goes for all shooters. What's strange is when I play COD4 (cause I still play 4 :) ), there's very little knifing if you watch the killfeed. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:27, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

:My thoughts exactly, Commando is silly. They had it right in CoD4. One thing that really bothers me, is that even on Hardcore, when I'm face to face and lighting the person up... it's still possible for them to knife me and walk away. Getting shot should interrupt the knife ability, and it shouldn't work faster than bullets. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:30, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Exactly, it's not that it's one hit kill, it's that it's so damn fast! Bad Company 2 got the knife right, you press the button, and it kills them about a whole second (that's a long time) later, it's mostly an assassination weapon. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:34, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

Just wanna throw out, the XM-25 is now also confirmed by IGN. Link here: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1171345p1.html. Someone can edit the main page appropriately as I'm not the most professional gun expert. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 22:23, 30 May 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

The "hybrid ACOG" could be one of Trijicon's ECOS models which have a small red dot sight mounted on top. And within a month, everybody will be whining about how "unfair" it is to have a scope and an RDS in one package... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Controversy ==

Well, it was inevitable, but the controversy's already gotten rolling.

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110393-Daily-Mail-Voices-Concern-Over-Ultra-Violent-Modern-Warfare-3 Escapist: Daily Mail Voices Concern Over "Ultra-Violent" Modern Warfare 3]

[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:45, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: Fortunately, most gamers care about good games regardless of content. personally, I could care less what the media says. Not a big issue, always going to be this somewhere. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:12, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

: The controversy is exactly what they want, it's good promotion. Just like that whole "airport-level" in MW2 was. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 07:12, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::Yup, it's good marketing for them, people become more interested when all the soccer mums etc. cry out about something. Until we see games like GTA actually getting banned, we FPS players have nothing to worry about. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:54, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Killer, Alex, those are the most truthful words ever. They dont care about decency or people, they care about MONEY. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 17:58, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:I get upset every time I see footage of the Towers falling, but that doesn't mean I think such images should be censored. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 9 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown Ak Variant ==

I was think the gun listed as the Unknown Ak Variant might be a AK74. I thought this because it appears to have a longer flash hider, which the AK74 encorporates, although I wouldnt hold my breath. Thoughts?

: If you check out the flash-hider on the leaked Kotaku screens, you can see that it's emphatically not the AK-74 typical flash-hider. It's something I've never seen before, it's like just the last few centimeters of the AK-74 flashhider, married to the barrel. Magazine looks too curved to be the AK-74, so it's probably a 7.62x39 AK. AK Variant is good enough for me, CoD's AK's are always pretty non-specific. :) [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:52, 27 May 2011 (CDT)

:: On first screen, that unknown AK variant looks like Vzor 58 rifle as it doesnt have AK´s ejection port/ bolt. On second screen, its just normal AK that is on one of those leaked shots. They arent same, as first gun is longer, thiner and lacks top mounted RIS rail.

: It looks different because it's in the dark and is low-res, whereas the leaked one is in the bright daylight and is a high-res closeup. It's the same weapon, there is no reason why IW would include both being so similar.It doesn't have the bolt/ejection port because IW is lazy and uses mirror images of weapons to render their models. Where the end of the receiver meets the stock adapter and the angled area of the receiver around the magwell are dead giveaways that it's not the Czor in addition to the spacing of the ribs on the receiver, which on the Czor are very close together. The magazines are always a little bigger, just CoD's style, and even then the magazine looks just fine to me. It's an AK variant, not the Czech make.

:As for the length, it's the same. What you might be confusing is where the gas tube meets the barrel as the end of the weapon, in the reveal trailer capture, the barrel ends near the man's thigh it's just hard to make out. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:01, 28 May 2011 (CDT)

Shouldn't the AK-74 in the main page be called "Unknown AK variant" or something like that? It's a bit hard currently to determine what is the correct variant, but by the leaked footage, this could be the same customized AK-47 like in Modern Warfare 2 only with different flash hider, handguard (which is also in black instead of tan) and black stock instead of tan. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:50, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: The railed foreguard is distinctly smaller. The stock isn't a VLTOR-type stock, but an LE one. Also, in the CoD Elite snippet trailer, one can see that the leaked Kotaku picture is legitimate. It matches the AK in that perfectly, this is a new AK weapon model for sure not just a painted one from MW2. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:25, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Call Of Duty: Elite ==
Kinda off topic, but this site's COD talk pages always end up becomeing half about discussing the game anyway, I was that trailer for Elite, and man, they expect us to pay for that? I mean, it's cool, but Bungie's been doing that with Halo forever, and it's free... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:02, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:The only color that matters to Activision, is green. I don't get it, your company produces the top-selling franchise of recent history, and you still want -more- money... get over yourselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 17:13, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:Meh. Don't like it, then don't pay for it. Vote with your dollars. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 06:41, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I agree, and I don't plan on paying for it. Bungie did heatmaps/statistics/awards/etc for free... Activision is marketing Elite as some sort of CoD Facebook with the occasional prize won. As long as those are the only perks, then I will not be paying for it. However, if they decide to transform it into some VIP membership giving members say, discounts on map packs, early access, or different weapon/abilities that are available no other way... then it's supremely disappointing and insulting to the people who spend an already outrageous $60 USD on the very game they produced. I understand that Activision is a business, and the goal is to make money... but this just seems like overt greed and a way to cash in. It's also detrimental, because for some odd reason, CoD seems to set the paradigm for all FPS's of late. So, other companies now feel pressured to emulate CoD in order to make money themselves. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 15:45, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

I'ts been pretty much summed up already. DEFINITELY not buying this, and I'm still not even sure I want MW3. I saw somewhere that there are no dedicated servers, which was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing that could save it is...well...a miracle. I am probably just going to go with Battlefield 3.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:36, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not expecting much from MW3, but I will get it for the singleplayer, just to see what happens with Price and Soap. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

They buy it used. Kick Activision where it hurts.

Battlefield 3 looks great, really high hopes for that one. MW3 doesn't look bad necessarily, just the same stuff in a different package. Will get it and play it a ton, but, as far as a good game being made, Battlefield 3 is going to take the cake. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:03, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, well said, I don't think MW3 is gonna be BAD, just the same thing again. BF3 looks awesome though. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:49, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Not going to lie, I'm going to buy this to round out the MW series (hopefully it ends with #3), and I'll be buying BF3. I will not be paying a single cent for the Elite service though. There's no reason for it to exist as a pay service. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 03:55, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

DICE also just blogged about their FREE BattleLog thing, which is pretty much the same as Elite. But free, because DICE seem to be less concerned with making dough and more concerned with producing a decent game and making their customers happy. IW makes their customers happy, sure, but most of those customers value big 'splosions rather than deep and interesting gameplay. I love CoD, but Battlefield is long overdue and as a company, EA/DICE are good in my book. Really looking forward to the Multiplayer footage and information that'll be coming out of E3 in the next few days. Seems a bit odd though, nobody seems to be posting regularly on the BF3 Discussion thread... get to it! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:54, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

Ummm... is Call of Duty: Elite directly related to MW3? If not, shouldn't it have it's own page? Please correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:04, 8 June 2011 (CDT)

:Elite is some kind of online service, not a separate game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:36, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== TDI Vector in Call of Duty Elite, MW-3 Snippet? ==

In the snippet of mw3 at the end of the Call of Duty Elite trailer, when the player is killed the stock of the TSI Vector from Mw2 appears on his back.
[[File:TDI Vector.jpg]]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 22:04, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

: Yep! I noticed that too. It's prolly indeed, the TDI Vector. However, I did notice that stock somewhere else on a weapon it shouldn't be in MW3, I can't say where, I just feel like I saw it somewhere. Good spot! [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 13:24, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

:: Could that be the M93 Raffica from MW2? I've always thought the stocks look similar. Although why a pistol has a stock in the first place is beyond me. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:39, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:::To make it a more stable firing platform, especially for a pistol that fires in full-auto/tri-burst. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:33, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== E3 Footage ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfTBe_PJrQ
Some firearms could be seen here. AA-12 confirmed. --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 13:26, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

You can see the AK-74u, P-90, and Glock 18 as pickups at times 5:14, 5:22, and 6:46 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)DaiTaNam

AA-12 is used for breaching the bridge of the sub starting at 6:16 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:52, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

I am nowhere near impressed with what we've seen out of MW3 so far... Good spots. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 14:29, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

2nd E3 Trailer spots at trailer found here (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-call-of/714784?type=flv). AK-47 as pickup at 1:29. 0:09 Driver of Humvee screams "RPG!", Dshk mounted on enemy vehicle at 1:40, M2 on automated gun system on Stryker at 2:16, Mi-24 using Yak-B gattling gun at 2:53, 9-bang used at 4:27, RPG (with RPG-7 sound from MW2) fired towards allied npcs at 4:50, XM-25 usage starting at 5:20, AT-4 as pickup at 5:30, AK-47 Grenadier seen as pickup at 7:00 possibly a gp-25 or a gp-30, Spas-12 as pickup at 8:12, Thermite grenades at 8:40, Reaper Drone weapons used starting at 9:25, M134 Minigun sighted 10:32, and RPG-7's fired at player shortly after, M134 magically taking down Hinds for remainder of the video (Hind cockpit glass alone is 12.7mm resistant).
:Wow, four years were not enough for them to realize that there is no such sh*t as "AK-74u". - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:21, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Hehe. Even when I name my classes I always find myself putting the 's' in it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:::I've seen people refer to the S model as a "Ak47 pistol". I mean, seriously, a pistol? makes it worse the bloke who said it is a retired soldier who fought in Vietnam. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:41, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
Note how they say 12.7mm resistant. With a m134 you have 50 rounds a second heading for those Hinds. Now I've known people who are attack helicopter pilots and they do not want to get hit by a minigun as while such things as Titanium armored tubs will take the hit such things as armored cockpit glass cannot due to the number of bullets hitting the "glass" Sort of like how you can drop a quarter on a car window and it will bounce but if you drop a tin can full of quarters it will break the window.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:38, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:The worst thing was that you got HIT by the crashing Hind, then HIT the building, fall out of the Blackhawk (almost), pull yourself BACK IN while it's spinning out, and GET BACK ON THE DAMN M134, then, oh we're fine, let's keep on flying... Oh, that and the HUGE BRICK OF C4 that you breach the Bridge with, and it doesn't hurt you... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:58, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::MW3=$60 MW2 DLC. Not impressed by anything I've seen so far, other than it taking place in NY; but Crysis 2, anyone? -Kangabox

Few more finds in the msnbc coverage of E3 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/43349883#43349883). Some gameplay of spec-ops shows (at 0:30) a man running around with a lever-action rifle/shotgun of some kind. It looks similar to the M1887 shotgun from the "leaked" photos a month back. At 0:53 the gamers are using what appears to be the Bushmaster ACR but I may be wrong because I'm not a gun expert. Someone please identify, thanks. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 20:50, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

:Did anybody notice that the MP-5 was called an MP-5k? and that the ACR was called ACR 6.8 --[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

More MW3 stuff. M1887 spotted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRx33M0V6I --[[User:Ferrariguy1000|Ferrariguy1000]] 01:13, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

Actually, that may be a hint at caliber change options and the option to remove/attach stock.We'll see. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:03, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:^ This would be so awesome --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:58, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I doubt Activision would put something semi-realistic in CoD, but if caliber change was implemented I would buy it just for that reason.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:17, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::: Imagine what an 7.62X39 ACR would be like (it can be modified to use it). Just kill the bad guys and pick up their AK magazines. Awesome. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 17:38, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

== Glock 18c ==

Should this not be put down as a Glock 17 seeing as it's likely it's the exact same gun from MW2? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]
:We should wait until we get a good shot of it before we make a decision, although it is likely the same.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:04, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, Jazz :) -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

== Unknown pistol from Late Night footage ==

[[Image:FN57MW3.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px]]

Can anyone help identify this pistol? Looks like an FN Five seveN to me (sorry for bad quality) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:15, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yep, that's a Five-seveN alright, cool. EDIT, it holds 15 rounds. Wow, hardcore fail. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:I had figured they'd do SOMETHING to balance it, either keep it at 20 rounds and give it low damage, or reduce mag size to keep it similar to other pistols --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:46, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Is there a link to this footage? -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-61311/1333686/ Also confirms the inclusion of the Model 1887 in the game --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:36, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

FN five-seveN- YES! One handed grip- meh. Could get over it. Once (or if) they confirm the P99/P226, I will be more excited. At one point, the developer says something like "This gives an action movie feel. We tried to make it a cinematic experience." That is what CoD is- an action movie. If you want a military sim go to Battlefield.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:23, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:True that, I will always enjoy both games because they offer completely different experiences despite being the same genre. I'll be more interested in MW3 when they start announcing some MGs, but the Five-seveN is a pretty cool addition --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:53, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Gotta agree with both of you, there, I'm psyched for an FN five-seveN in a game like CoD. -- [[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 00:43, 15 June 2011
::"Wow, hardcore fail." Alex, what the f#ck did you expect from a call of duty game. +1 round in the chamber? Some things will never change. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:53, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Haha, I was never hopeful enough for +1, but until not they'd gotten almost all the mag capacities right, especially since the 20 round mag is one of the most notable features of the Five-seveN :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 24 June 2011 (CDT)
::::If it did have 20 rounds, people would complain that it was overpowered. All in the name of balance! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:51, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Not if it was very weak, no one complained about the 20 round Five-seveN in the Counter Strike games. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:16, 27 June 2011 (CDT)
::::::There is that I suppose. It'd probably never be used in favour of something a little more powerful with fewer rounds though. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:22, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

:And of course it's probably still going to have 15 rounds in single even though multiplayer balance is totally irrelevant there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
::Good point, didn't consider that. Screw Sledgehammer. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 03:12, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

I am starting to realise that if ammo sharing between primaries and secondaries comes back from Cod4, most SMGs will have an advantage, as of now there are many possible combos (P90/Five-seveN, MP5 & FMG-9/P226 & Glock 18 and possibly UMP45/USP45 or M1911). This would make Scavenger (if it returns) unecessary and would open up a perk slot. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 19:38, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:That would be awesome! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:04, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

== 1911 back in MW3 ==

Does anyone think the M1911 will be back in Modern Warfare, and I found a 1911 looking gun when soldier blind-firing with a UMP45 in the reveal trailer [[File:UMP45-MW3]]

:I know the shot you're talking about, it could be a 1911, I HOPE it's a 1911, but it could also be the P226 with wierd lighting on it, if there really is a P226. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:46, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:I hope both are included, the selection of secondaries in Black Ops was paltry, more pistol choices plz. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:54, 16 June 2011 (CDT)
: yeah more pistol choices because in black ops I only used the m1911 and the python.

:I only use the ASP, I know it was highly outclassed by all the others but it was obscure enough to make it a favourite.--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 15:41, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:I like all the pistols in Black Ops (except the Makarov, I've never liked it), but the problem was they were almost all the same, low capacity, low damage, like the WaW pistols. While we're talking about pistols, has anyone else noticed that the sildes of the COD4 pistols actually locked back when empty, and the WaW ones had working hammers? Then starting with MW2, it just became part of the animation, so it would fully cycle, then appear back when you started reloading. Black Ops continued this too. The only pistol in MW2 that locked empty was the 1911 because they just copy-pasted the whole thing from 4, and the only one to lock empty in BO is... the 1911. Apparently they just reskined the WaW 1911 in BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:06, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Can't say I'm surprised, I suppose the majority of players don't notice small inconsistencies in weapon function animations. I guess they could get away with copy pasting the M1911 from CoD4 into MW2 as it was only featured in campaign, which in itself was pretty lame as it was the only sidearm I used in CoD4 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:57, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah Ive heard about it and sceen it do you think they fix the bug --[[User:GVK2009|GVK2009]] 22:01, 16 June 2011 (CDT)GVK2009

: I wouldn't be surprised, it's kinda become a tradition to have it in the series. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:36, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::They better, if only so Price can have it like in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:47, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

== Weapons Wishlist ==

Any particular guns that people are hoping to see in MW3? All I need in order to be happy is the M240. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 11:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
:Hmm, I'm having for some drum mags and Frag-12 rounds for the AA-12. Also, a Blaser R93 LRS2 wouldn't go amiss. Probably not a military weapon, but neither is the WA2000 or the Winchester 1887. *Cough* MW2 *Cough* Also hope they bring back the M93R but fix the magazines to give it 30 rounds. And hopefully they throw in the PSG-1, like in BO, but make it look decent (Not sure about you guys, but to me the gun looked disgusting in BO). That's pretty much my wishlist, I guess. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:08, 17 June 2011
::Argle bargle there is no such thing as an M93R Beretta does not use M for model prefix etc etc [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thanks for the correction, Tim. I'm not amazing with guns, but I hope to improve. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 18:24, 17 June 2011
::Muh the AA-12, sure it looks cool but it can never, ever be balanced for inclusion in a video game. Also I think the PSG-1 in Black Ops was hot. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
All I need to be happy is a HUGE selection of pistols, not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs, AA12, etc, and (gonna get a lot of heat for this) NO QUICKSCOPING. IMHO snipers should be used as snipers, and running around close-quarters with a sniper is simply a one shot one kill semi auto rifle. Pistols I would love to see in the game even though half of them have a guaranteed 0% chance- Walther P99, SIG-Sauer P226/P228/P229, HK P30 or HK45, Beretta Cougar or more realistically the Px4 Storm, S&W M&P, Para Ordnance P14 45 Limited (this would be the best pistol in the game, as I would leave out the Desert Eagle), and to round it all out a good ole Smith & Wesson Model 686 with Pachmayr Grips. I am also glad that the FN Five-seveN is in it, I just wish they gave it a proper two-handed grip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:09, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::About the PSG-1, ALL the weapons looked terrible in Black Ops. JazzBlackBelt, I'd be worried if you took heat for not wanting quickscoping on this website, that would seriously worry me :/ And, yeah, pretty much what you said. As for balancing an AA-12, no, it can't be done, everyone go watch FPSRussia's AA-12 video, especially when he one-hands it; you can't balance that. They just made the pellets disappear after (literally!) 10 feet in MW2... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:04, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::'not many (forgive me for lack of a better word) noob guns like LMGs' Haha, as a regular LMG user this makes me sad :( I don't think LMGs are 'noob guns' if employed properly, they are fairly essential in defensive roles if playing gametypes like domination in which points NEED to be effectively locked down. However, I will concede that the majority of players who DO choose LMGs do so in order to hold the trigger down and hope 2-3 of their 100 round belts hit, which is just not on. As for quickscoping, I can't stand it. I feel it's cheap and 95% down to aim assist (though obviously not on PC). --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:29, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::I'm so ''sick'' of the term N00B, ugh. I'm not going to give my "wish list" cause IW is gonna do what "they" want and not listen to "us", I stopped playing COD games at WM2. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::75% of the LMG users use them improperly, like running around not really aiming. I still get annoyed when they kill me (I get annoyed at pretty much everything when it kills me) but if they were actually using it properly it makes me feel a little bit better. As I play on PC there are still annoying players that play outrageously, but on PC virtually nobody uses the mic (on CoD anyway) so I don't have to listen to them talk!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:25, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::I'm the same, though I think getting annoyed is part of the fun. It must be, otherwise we wouldn't keep playing. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:33, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::Nah, getting annoyed is never part of the fun, the game is good enough that we can clinch our teeth from the few annoying things and still enjoy the game. ;) (At least in MW1 for me anyway.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:15, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::I've never been that keen on CoD4, definitely not on PC anyway. The maps are far too small for the amount of players each server has :\ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 10:33, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Love COD4 on the PC, I love the 24 to 50 players on those "small" maps, 50 players makes it a true war! I prefer playing on Hard Core mode, just love it, no HUD, 1 or 2 bullets to kill someone, that's the way all the COD games '''should''' be by default. :) Never played WM2 or BO, they're too silly and Hollywood. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:22, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

::::::::COD4 is by far the best CoD in my opinion. I play on PC, but I hate when there are too many players on a map. I aim for servers with about 4-15 players. Likewise, I love the big maps on BC2, but only when there are enough players.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:53, 18 June 2011 (CDT)

Aside from seconding the inclusion of a bigger variety of combat pistols (note that by "combat pistols", I don't mean Desert Eagles, S&W 500s, and the like), the only weapon I'd like to see is a Mark 12 SPR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:48, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be for more Shotguns and to have them placed not ONLY as secondaries, but Primaries too. For example, I'd love to have the semi-auto M1014 or the 1887 as a primary but have a smaller sawn off shotgun or a compact pump action as a secondary, like a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. MW2 with it's secondary shotguns was a bit of disappointment with me. I'd love to see more real life mainstream shotguns instead of the damn SPAS-12, it's overused for god sake, just start adding the 870 or the Mossberg, I wouldn't even mind if it had all the "Tacticool" crap on, as long as it was either the Mossberg or 870 underneath it all. But overall, more pistols in general, maybe a sniper rifle with only a single shot fire capability, a G3 Rifle from COD4 and maybe some really old weapons, like a Bolt Action Mosin Nagant or a Lee Enfield Rifle. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:36, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:How about NO shotguns as secondaries? IMO primaries should be the rifle/shotgun and secondaries should be pistols. Two shotguns? A little bit overkill and unfair.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:58, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

:: I don't know, there is something crazy fun about running around with a M4 and the semi-atuo M1014. Unrealistic, and ridiculous? Maybe, but can't deny that its fun. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:02, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

My wishlist would be that we could choose our equipment before the missions. There are some, I suppose where that would be unrealistic such as the 'No Russian' from MW2, but I think it would give everyone a bit more personal or in depth experience if they could choose their kit. I love the idea that we could get the flip up magnifier for an EOTech sight, but in general I prefer how much less of the screen is taken up by the red dot sight from MW1+2. I don't know enough about programming to understand if this would be impossible, but right now I have a bit of a crush on the Bushmaster ACR and would love to play levels with that, and in a few months when I'm having another of my HK 41X kicks play the game again with that rifle. Living in the UK my PC is the closest I will get to these guns, and I think everyone would have more fun if they could personalise their kit rather than have it chosen arbitrarily by IW/Activision who, I doubt, could not come up with one reason, good or bad, for giving you the equipment that they do. One specific request Sig Sauer p226 in .357 sig, they won't do it but you have to have dreams. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:00, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

A Weapon Loadout wouldn't be too hard. Medal of Honor: Airborne did the same thing. Maybe, completing missions, unlocking achievements/trophies (and a separate means on PC and Wii), unlocks new weapons to choose. - [[User:1morey]] June 20, 2011 8:50 PM (EST)

Two main things I'm hoping for: First, I want my F2000 back, but I want IW to get the unique optics right -- the EGLM sight on the real F2000 is magnified, so in-game, it should be the ACOG scope that looks like the EGLM, not the Red Dot. Second, I want a Springfield Armory XD or XD(m) pistol, preferably in .45 caliber; hell, I'd settle for the Croatian HS2000 that the XD is based on. I have a few other wishes (XM500 instead of M82/M107), but those two are the only ones that really have any chance of coming true. - [[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 18:13, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

When will CoD learn? i love CoD but its seriously going down hill from CoD4. they had nice, popular NORMAL weapons in CoD4. M4A1, AK, M16, 1911, M9. now their bringing in stuff that knowone has ever heard of. is it too much to ask for a normal Glock? maybe a 17 or 21 in place of the USP. maybe use some pistols actually being used by actual SF Operators like the Glock, Sig, 1911, Springfield XD. and what is up with the Russians carrying FAMAS's. just looking for a call of duty that had the same quality and standards as COD4.. anyone with me on this? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:59, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:What? The USP is WAY more "normal" that the XD [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

i'd give it a few years, its been tried to replace the M9 (as did the hK45), its employed by a few police forces, im sure its being used by SF. and PS im pretty sure that most people would hand in the USP for the newer more ergonomic hK45, or the P30(same thing but in 9x19/.40S&W) [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 21:07, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:But... The HK45 only holds 10+1 rounds where as the USP45 holds 12+1. :B By decreasing the grip size for smaller hands and better ergonomics it lost 2 rounds. :( If someone made flush-fitting 12 round mags for the HK45, I'd buy it in a heart beat. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:25, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:I would take the fully ambi version of the USP45 over any other handgun. Period. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:05, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

== AK-74u ==

Shouldn't the section for the aks74u on the page be titled "AKS-74u" and not AK-74u with quotations? IMO it's the same as calling a Glock 17 converted to full auto a fake Glock 18. I don't believe in the "call it what the game calls it" method because that is incorrect. I think we should definitely mention that the game incorrectly names it in the description, but the title should be the actual gun it is modeled after.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:47, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:It uses that title because the weapon is actually a replica of the JG "AK Beta-F" Airsoft gun, not an AKS-74u; it's a mess of different AK variant bits and pieces (mostly AK-47) that's shaped a bit like an AKS-74u but certainly isn't one. Hence it's a quote-unquote AK-74u. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:23, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just as Evil Tim said, it's only similar to the 74u in name, it's a bunch of different AKs, and it's not even a 74, it's a 47 anyway. Someone could copy-paste the description from the COD4 page. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:43, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

::Then shouldn't it be titled the model of the airsoft gun? All other pages I have seen that use airsoft guns as stand ins for real guns have the gun(s) it is modeled after and in parenthesis the airsoft gun. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up as I'm not much of an AK expert.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:25, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::It's not exactly the same as the Airsoft gun either, though. On a movie page where the gun in question was being used to play a real one, yes, you'd use the name, but here it's a fictional gun ''based'' on an Airsoft gun, so you just have to go with what they call it in quotes. That's how it's normally done for Frankenguns and fictional custom weapons in games. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:Well, technically the only difference is the bakelite mags, but "AK-74u" looks WAY better than "AK Beta-F". [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:19, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::There's some minor differences in the layout of the gas block and front grip (check the CoD4 page images) and I'd agree it looks better to call it by the game name in quotes; it also makes it easier for someone looking for an ID of the weapon to actually find it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:49, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:::The gas block and grip just look like fail modelling, but they are different ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:20, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

Thanks for all the replies, really cleared that up for me. As I said before, I am NOT in any way an AK expert. I had read that the one in COD4 it was modeled after an airsoft gun, and assumed the airsoft gun was modeled after the actual gun, not random bits. To avoid making other people confused I will update the description with a modified version of the COD4 one.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah I know what you mean by not an AK expert, it took me forever to be able to tell what one was just by looking at it for a sec, and there's still a lot that I come across I hadn't heard of. Same with revolvers, even now, they still all look the same to me lol. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:29, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Other than a few Smith & Wessons, don't ask me ANYTHING about revolvers. But hey, that's what this site is for- educating people about firearms.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:56, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:Lol, well said :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:58, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

It is correct that this gun is not an aks 74u and that the term ak 74u "doesn't exist." However, I don't know where the author of the main page got the information that this gun "doesn't exist." It's called an SBR (short barreled rifle) you can look it up if you don't believe me, just type in: short barrel rifle ak. Also, I know for a fact that you can fit an aks 74u type muzzle brake on the rifle. Most, if not all ak type muzzle brakes are compatible with each other. Just sayin'. --[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 16:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I googled, and there's no weapon listed called an "AK-74u" on the first page. If you can find a fullauto AKM-pattern weapon that looks like the one in the game and is called the AK-74u ''by the manufacturer'', then feel free to add it to the page, but as far as anyone can tell it's an "AK Beta F" Airsoft gun. This would hardly be the first mistake CoD has made regarding weapons, CoD1 had eight and ten-man weapons with a one-man crew and MP44s at Stalingrad in 1942-43. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm sorry for the poor communication, the gun is call a "Short Barrel Rifle." Ak 74u is just a nickname of AKS 74u. Look up "Short Barrel Rifle ak" on google. You are correct in saying that the Ak 74u isn't a "real weapon."--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:43, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:SBR is a legal classification of weapons (shoulder-fired rifled guns with barrels 16 inches or shorter) which require a special tax stamp and registration, it's not a specific gun. It's been applied to handguns with shoulder stocks before. What you're finding with that google search is weapons which fit that legal definition. Bear in mind we ''don't'' use legal definitions here, because legally, for example, there's no such thing as a fully automatic shotgun (it's a "machine gun"). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:49, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Regardless of what you say it's classified as, the weapon exists regardless of technical terms. I was merely proving the weapon existed. Even if it is heavily modified.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 23:55, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:Um, you're looking at dozens of different short-barrel AKM-pattern weapons with that search, the only thing they have in common is requiring an SBR stamp. It doesn't really change that ''this'' AK isn't a real gun, because it's an Airsoft gun based on piecemeal bits of the AK47 and AKS-74U. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:01, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, I don't want to debate the issue with you here, I am aware that you are correct about the SBR title and its classification. However, If you look at the weapon posted, you will realize that it is merely an AKM with a shortened barrel, the pictures I found proves that this customization exists. You're going by weapon title whereas I'm going by the weapon itself. A weapon like that could, in theory, exist. With full auto capability and everything. But do what you will, It doesn't bother me at all, However, I think you can agree that this fictional weapon is at least based off a real firearm.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:09, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

The only Aks 74u piece you're talking about is the muzzle brake.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:12, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and the sight, but dude, I don't want to be that guy, I just want to show that this gun could be real, after all, the gun in-game doesn't show any manufacturer or anything, it's just a customized AKM.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:15, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:You're talking about the fact that the configuration could ''theoretically'' be made into a real gun, though. We know of an ''actual'' Airsoft gun which is mass-produced right now and easily available to be used as a reference, which is all but identical to what is shown in the game. This means it's based on a fake weapon. Whether you could make an actual weapon based on ''it'' doesn't really change that. We say the same of handheld miniguns in videogames which have the "chainsaw grip" from T2 but retain the half-circle attachment point for the ''Predator'' M60 grip: you could make a minigun with a useless half-circle attachment, but that doesn't change that the useless half-circle comes from the Airsoft version we have pictured on the M134 page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:23, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

By all means do whatever you want, you know more about this site than I do, and frankly, I like this site and don't want to get into an argument on it. Either way is fine by me. And I'll leave it as a agree to disagree kind of thing regarding its actual existence. There's not enough evidence to say it does or doesn't exist. So I apologize for my previous remark. I leave it at a possibilty.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:30, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Call of Duty XP 2011 ==

I doubt it, but was just wondering if anyone is going to this? I'm curious if they got all the right guns in the "Call of Duty Armory", which apparently has the guns from CoD in it. You also get the chance to play MW3 for the first time, and a little beforehand reporting never hurt anyone ;).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:00, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:If I lived in the States/had the money to afford a flight to LA I probably would have gone. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 12:27, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot from FourZeroTwo/PKP Pecheneg spotted? ==

[http://a.yfrog.com/img736/504/nceia.jpg]

Looks like the Juggernaut soldier is using a PKP Pecheneg (note the distinctive carry handle on the top of the barrel).
There are some other guns lying around, possible an M14 on the left? Looks like a .308 mag to me....

(also is there a way to post an image directly in a discussion?)

--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 14:16, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Anyone else notice the annoyingly obvious Remington and EOTech trademarks? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:03, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah I don't like the trades at all, though I doubt I will use the ACR all that much. Good job on the PKP spot Ghost, think you're on the money there. Have wanted the PKP for a while. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 01:50, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's not like guns have rollmarks in real life, right?-protoAuthor 21:10, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Meh, I don't mind the trades. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 04:46, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Each to their own, but they are massive so it feels a little like (very obscure) product placement --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:51, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::To be honest, I'll take overt sponsorship over price rises. You have to remember that games have gone from something that could be made by half a dozen people in six months to something that takes 150-2,000 (GTAIV) people years and costs millions of dollars, and in real terms games now cost less than they did in those days. For example, the original ''Turok'' adjusted for inflation cost over $100 when the N64 first came out. They've got to get more money from somewhere, and you should be glad that somewhere isn't you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::I think it's brilliant. The MW series has made ACOG and EOTech house-hold names to an entire generation of potential customers. How many twelve year olds knew what an ACOG was pre-MW? Or what a Remington ACR was, or FN SCAR? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:00, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::But can they tell the difference between a Remington ACR and a Magpul Masada? But seriously, I don't mind the trades that much. Sure, they are gigantic and wrongly placed, but will you honestly be focused on that while playing?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:14, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::I suppose not, no. You might struggle to play the game if constantly focusing on your gun's trades. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 16:17, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yeah, you guys are right, the product placement isn't too bad, it's just the oversized obviousness that bothers me. Oh, and I'm not familiar with the new EOTech in this game, but isn't the EOTech trade where the buttons should be? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:04, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Not necessarily, I believe the model depicted there is the EXPS2, which has the buttons on the left-hand side (http://www.copquest.com/75-8030.jpg) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:18, 13 July 2011 (CDT)
::::::Oh okay, it doesn't bother me nearly as much now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:13, 14 July 2011 (CDT)
:::::::If you guys have 3 minutes to spare, here's a youtube vid of the EXPS2, which indeed does have the EOTech trade on the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpw0IigxQM Plus, at the 1:00 minute mark he brings out a magnifier that has the same flip to side capability as we saw in some video for MW3, I don't remember which.
::Yeah, it is a PKP Pecheneg, Confirmed. - [[User:ReikoKotobuki|ReikoKotobuki]]

== ??????? ==
Why haven't all the guns from the Walther P99 to the Heckler & Koch M320 (above) been applied to the main page? Every image containing the guns have been confirmed as official by Robert Bowling.
:They were on Kotaku, which is not a reliable source, and last I heard they said "some of the information released is accurate, some not". If they have been confirmed elsewhere, please post a link.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:54, 25 July 2011 (CDT)

This isn't rocket science. Those pictures were leaked before the gameplay videos were. Look at the M-4 from the video, then from the Kotaku Link. They're the exact same, and the MP5 as well. They're legit, I'm convinced.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 17:04, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:This website operates based on CONFIRMED information. However likely it may be that they are legit (I'm convinced too) we have to wait for them to be in an official gameplay video.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:59, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

::Yes, plus, as the template at the top of the age says, all images must be from ''official trailers''. The pics here are still from a leak, even if some of them have been confirmed. I'd say the only time we should use leaked pics is ''after'' the release if they include weapons that never made the final cut (eg the minigun in the leaked STALKER alpha), but never before. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:18, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

Okay, fair enough. Sounds good to me.--[[User:Grimmerc915|Grimmerc915]] 00:24, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

== Survival Mode Trailer ==

Look HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDQ2Ow-VfI&feature=player_embedded. New weapon spots include...(please identify) at 0:11, (please identify...maybe Scar-H) at 0:14, buy screen confirms USAS-12 and M60E4 at 0:40, G36 at 0:42, ?auto-grenade launcher? (mk.19???) at 0:48, new telescopic lens attachment at 1:25, riot shield at 1:38, FMG-9 and bounding landmine (unknown type) at 2:04. Please update main page accordingly =D --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:24, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

You beat me to it, was just in the middle of writing a post about this! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 13:30, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Forgot to mention, at 0:42, ACR using 6.8mm ammo --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also 0:52, it IS a mk.19 automatic grenade launcher!!!! --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 13:34, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think the weapon at 0:11 might be another AR platform weapon, they show more of it at 0:15. I'm thinking LWRC's M6A4 but they're not an exact match. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 14:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:: It's the same M4 seen in the leaks and the E3 footage.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:39, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Nah that's shown at 0:17, is definitely a different gun. Much longer than the M4, also the rail system, charging handle and rear sight differ. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:25, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

Dammit, I was hoping they wouldn't bring back that juggernaut soldier. Also, seeing what they did to that poor 1887 made me cry. One good thing though, deploying a riot shield squad could be interesting.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:56, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wait, weren't riot shields also available in MW2? I remember seeing them in MW2 videos. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:37, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::Indeed they were introduced in MW2, but only the AI could use a sidearm in tandem with the shield. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:15, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Aww. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
Also, here's the list of weapons up for purchase during the trailer: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110809195831/callofduty/images/8/8f/USAS_12_Survival_Mode.png Clicky!] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:02, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

The landmine device at the end of the video is an IMS landmine. Information here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upxZigECyk. I don't know if we post about that kind of thing, but claymores are listed on the main website. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 17:36, 14 August 2011 (CDT)

== Colt CM901 ==
[[Image:UK1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:UK2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Anyone know what this is? I think it's LWRC's M6A4 but I'm not certain, definitely isn't either of the other AR platform weapon's we've seen so far though

Well, since Infinity Ward loves to put Future Weapons stuff in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the LWRC M6A4 made an appearance as a mag-fed LMG, Black Ops-style. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:28, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:^ That's what I was thinking, the reload animation looks quite slow for an assault rifle. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:32, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yet, once again, they have put the rear iron sight backwards :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:57, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::Good job whoever identified this as a Colt CM901! --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:05, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

:::No, that iron sight isn't on backwards. That's the standard BIS for M4's in the Army. Every M4 in our Brigade has that flip up sight. The only thing wrong with it is that it's supposed to be a the standard peep hole, not the night sight that you see on the M16/M4 carrying handles. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 09:51, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::: For reference, I believe [http://www.aresarmor.com/install/media/ecom/prodlg/matechbuis.jpg this] either is or is a commercial copy of the sight he's on about. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:33, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::Yes sir that would be it [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 12:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

== MP5K!! ==

Someone throw in the MP5K to confirmed weapons, it can be seen with a holographic in the vid, after the player tosses a purple smoke grenade for AC-130 fire at 1:08 in the newest trailer! :D Dunno WHY they add it in with the regular MP5, but it's confirmed in the bottom right hand corner. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]]

:On it. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:38, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::The strange thing is that the difference is not even noticeable as the guy holds the MP5K close to his body and the buttstock (the buttplate on the MP5K) isn't visible. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 20:46, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::I think it has a buttstock attached, as far as I can tell. I get the feeling this is the only MP5 variant in the game. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:50, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

::::What the about the MP5A2? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:00, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:::::I thought they both looked very similar (buttstock, rails etc) so that's why I assumed they might both be one and the same, but if they're both confirmed as separate weapons then fair enough. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:07, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::They could have misnamed the MP5A2 an MP5K. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:12, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I also think this might be the only MP5 in the game, and if it is the MP5k OR it is a MP5A2 misnamed, I'm going to get angry. The MP5k is a nice gun, but I want to be able to use a full size MP5 again, like the good ole days. Ahh, how I miss COD4...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:17, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::True to that. Well I'm still playing COD4, huaha! >:D I just played Black Ops only for a little while, I completed SP, played Zombies and MP for a couple of hours until I quit due to the frustrating and the annoying, and went back to playing COD4. XD Oh, and I never even touched the abomination that is called MW2. D:< - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I played Black Ops for a while, enjoyed, then played COD4 again and realized how bad BO was. Recently I broke down and bought MW2 because Steam had it half off, and having extremely low expectations for it, I found it wasn't terrible, but just bad. I still play the MP, but I have no idea why.
We saw the teaser trailer and it is the full size MP5. I'd be damn if they kept the MP5K. Seriously man. In Black Ops they had the right idea of no mini Uzi and gave us a full Uzi, I want me full size MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:27, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:Hehe. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:12, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
::Seriously though, I don't know why they put the smaller variants of everything. MP5k, Mini-Uzi, and small guns in particular like the sawed off shotgun and stuff. Don't even get me started about the excess rails, which appears to have continued over into MW3. 0.o--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:37, 10 August 2011 (CDT)
:::I quite like the MP5K, but for the most part I prefer the full size variants of the weapons they include. As for rails, everybody knows the more rails you have on your gun, the better your gaming experience will be. *Trollface* --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:20, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
::: Needs more Tacticool. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:31, 11 August 2011 (CDT)
:::^ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:58, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

== M60E4 could be M60E3 ==

After looking closely again at the trailer, I have noticed that the picture of the M60E4 is actually the M60E3 from [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]. Of course we haven't seen MW3's M60 in action yet, but once again, could be another mistake, or just an early development place holder... Here are the pictures for comparison:
* Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Wmplayer_2011-08-09_23-35-18-50.jpg
* Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3's M60 - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COD4M60E4.jpg

What do you think? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 21:54, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

:I think they images they're using atm are largely just placeholders until final ones are chosen, so the final in-game model may end up being the E4 variant. Guess we'll have to wait till footage from CoD XP comes out to see for ourselves. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:09, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:: The fact the MW2 ACR image is being used supports that. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:45, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

== FAD assault rifle ==

Whereabouts in the spec-ops trailer is the FAD? Someone updated the main page but no pics. Here's a picture of the FAD for anyone who hasn't seen it, looks horrific [http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5347/fad3vv2.jpg] --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:Just watched the trailer and am 99% there was no FAD in it. Also, the MP5K is actually a railed MP5A2, and can be seen from the side on the ground when the first juggernaut fast ropes in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:50, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::I thought so. :) And yeah the FAD is pretty horrific looking. XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:29, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::OMG that gun looks bleh...i'd rather see the F2000 or TAR-21 again, those are some sexy bullpup rifles. But this time please with correct grenadelauncher placement.--[[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:29, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
: Chrausis, the FAD isn't in the trailer, but can be seen on Sledgehammer's site in image 2 as seen here [http://sledgehammergames.com/]. And Commando, you may be right, but Robert Bowling confirmed on Twitter both versions of the MP5 will be included. --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 02:38, 13 August 2011
::Hmm... this could prove interesting... if they pull it off right there could be pros/cons to each version, i.e. MP5k lets you run a little faster but poorer accuracy and MP5A2 gives you better accuracy but a little slower. Of course, they could just be making the MP5k a secondary, which would make me pretty mad.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:10, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::It's kinda hard for MW3's MP5K to be a secondary with that A2 stock. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
::::That was the MP5A2 we saw, just with rails.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:24, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::But the HUD said "MP5K Holographic". :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:15, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::1of 2 things is happening. 1) IW has REALLY screwed up this time and put an A2 stock on a MP5k or 2) the HUD is just a placeholder from MW2 and will be updated. I can't tell if the handguard is full length or not from that clip.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 00:42, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::I think there going with the Machine Pistol Secondaries again, perhaps the MP5K is in the Machine Pistol Slot now, makes sense, considering it's smaller profile and IW's reputation, given that they had placed similar weapons in the catergory such as the MP9 and PP-2000. Might have a smaller magazine capacity or trade in something else over the full size version like firepower or accuracy. I know that one theory of mine, is that the A2 version may function similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung 40mm Grenade Launcher. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:26, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::The GSN-19 is a '''30mm''' grenade launcher dude. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:16, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::::I was using that as the US equivalent, the only other '''30mm''' Grenade Launcher I see in use by US Forces would be the 37mm and that's usually designated to Police Riot situations and signal purposes, not exactly a great combat multiplier on a Sub-Machine gun. And did I mention the GSN-19 anywhere in that description or saying that it was '''30mm'''? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 01:23, 19 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::::You said "Similarly to the AKS-74U from Black Op's in the addition of mounting alot more accessories over the K variant, such as Dual Mags (Or Mag Clamps) or in this case, an underslung '''40mm Grenade Launcher'''" <-(referring to the '''30mm''' GSN-19 that mounts to the AKS-74U). Just making a correction. Anyway I see a 40mm grenade launcher being mounted on a MP5 kinda silly, Half-Life anyone?

== Purchase Weapons like Black Ops? ==

Was just curious after watching the Survival Mode trailer, anyone else think that IW maybe following Treyarch's example and giving all their guns, equipment and killstreaks price tags in the Multiplayer Armory instead of unlocking them with experience and further ranks? I personally enjoy the idea, as in Black Op's it worked quite well, I could buy what I want and didn't need to work too much in order to get it. It was always in reach. What do you alot think about this? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 05:31, 13 August 2011 (CDT)
:I would prefer the money system. as you noticed, the upgrades where always in reach and it wasnt necessairi to perform a gazillion kills simply to get that one feature unlocked, that i like. [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 08:23, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

:Robert Bowling has confirmed that there'll be no in-game currency (other than in survival mode) but there will be a whole new system in which weapons are unlocked. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:52, 13 August 2011 (CDT)

== One handed grip ==

I know its not supposed to be a sim, but a one handed grip on the pistols is going to get old quick [[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:24, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:I agree fully.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:31, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
::Be thankful it's just a one-handed grip and not a sideways 'gangsta' style grip. Though now I've said that... --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 08:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
::And they wouldn't even have the shell casings eject into the player's face.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:33, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
::Would make you flinch if you were playing in 3D. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 07:08, 16 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Well in the real world you only one handed a pistol when your off-hand is not available, ie steadying on something, moving something, holding a flashlight, driving, disabled, etc. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:51, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
::::We all know how the CoD developers feel about the real world...--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::lolz. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:17, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

On a lighter note, they are supposed to be bringing back a fully sized MP-5[[User:Slayerofthesand|Slayerofthesand]] 21:34, 14 August 2011 (CDT)
:Old news pal. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:13, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

== Infinity ward when will you ever learn ==

that russians don't use 9mm european smgs in frontline combat i throught Russians used heavy calber Russian weapons.--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

And I hate the EBR why do they have it in there!

know what I hate in COD games is that the player automatically thinks that they know every gun just by playing cOD.But I still like cod enough to play it--[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]] 00:19, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:They don't really care about the minor details. They just want to create a fun game, rather than to do a research about a weapon and recreate it in the game itself. I myself, also getting annoyed of the unrealistically bull**** stuff that the developers put in CoD, especially CoD:BO where 90% of the weapons are anachronistic. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:14, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

We have WAAAAYYY passed the realistic mark with CoD. CoD is basically a playable action movie. If you want realistic, play Battlefield. Depending on how they present multiplayer, I play it because it is fun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 06:30, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, yeah, the CODs since 4 aren't so bad if you just think of them as action movies. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:01, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

did anyone actually pay attention of what i wrote?- nazi fishwife

:You basically went for the rather tiresome 'an unrealistic game scored better in reviews than a realistic game, so people must prefer unrealistic games' line. This is a fallacious argument unless you can prove ''Modern Warfare 2'' scored more highly ''because'' it was unrealistic and that it would have scored less if the weapon choice had at least attempted to make sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

how is it a fallacious argument, action packed less realistic games are statistically better than realistic, slow and boring games i had proof i added all of the scores modern warfare 2 and all of the scores with operation flashpoint 2: dragon rising on the page but it got deleted because it wasn't set out in the acceptible fashion - nazi fishwife

:No, ''one'' unrealistic game got better review scores than ''one'' realistic game. The comparison is flawed, since you assume that ''MW2'' is better because the weapons used are unrealistic choices for the people using them (something no review praised the game for) rather than because the game is better at a mechanical level, or simply appealed to more reviewers due to the more "pick up and play" style of gameplay. I could just as easily claim that since ''Portal 2'' has a higher Metacritic score than ''MW2'', first-person games with no guns in them are "statistically better" than ones with guns. Would you accept this as an arguement for MW3 not letting you shoot anything? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:02, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

thats funny, i didn't know that portal 2 was a realistic war game?

:Way to miss the point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:28, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

like when you started talkin about portal instead of a war game who's missing the point??

:Wow you just epically failed basic logic there ''and'' you didn't sign your posts... -.- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

i didnt know logic came into commenting on a website are you fucking stupid or do you just not get what logic is???

:Interesting, your attitude is just as bad as your logic and your name, you better watch yourself Nazi. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:20, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:Popular =/= Good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:05, 24 August 2011 (CDT)

:: I love the EBR and its still in service. It's not in alot of games/movies so why do you hate it? - Joey1666

You're asking when Infinity Ward will learn? They did, and a majority of them quite the company. What's left of IW is nothing compared to who they used to be [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:09, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I went kinda over board,What I ment about the EBR is not the gun I hate,Its the damage in-game what I hate.Other then that I love the EBR.An about the Russians I was just making a point like it making them look like a terroist army when they are not.Like they could be using a little more Russian weaponry.Right (makarovs men are the terroist if you didn't know),Anyways COD is still my favorite game series.--v 15:07, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[user:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
----

== Confirmed guns still on Talk page ==

The following guns have been confirmed (either by official trailers or by live gameplay videos), and have already been added to the main page; therefore, they can be removed from the "unconfirmed" list on the Talk page (and IMHO, removing them will help prevent any confusion):
*FN Five-seveN
*Magpul FMG-9
*Colt M4A1
*Customized AK-47
*Remington ACR
*Heckler & Koch G36C
*Winchester Model 1887
*AA-12

== Hopefully this game turns out really good ==

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one folks. Cause to be quite honest, it's good that Infinity Ward got Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software to help in the development of the game, rather than just them doing it all on their own like how painfully obvious it was in Modern Warfare 2 (Not that the game was bad in any way, but it could have spent a little more time in development). After all, Raven Software is famous for it's development of the Jedi Knight games (instant classics right there), The X-Men Legends games, the Soldier of Fortune trilogy and a few Star Trek games here and there, so definitely the Multiplayer aspect of Modern Warfare 3 will be much improved over MW2's, and more fun to play. While Sledgehammer Games was founded by two guys who used to be a part of Visceral Games (a subsidiary of Electronic Arts), and that company was famous for development of 007: Agent Under Fire, 007: Everything or Nothing, 007: From Russia With Love (Pretty good first person shooters back in the day when games in that genre weren't copying the whole 'duck-and-cover-while-your-health-regenerates' system like they do now from the more modern CoD games... *cough* stole it from Halo *cough*), and of course both of The Godfather games and the Dead Space trilogy. So definitely the single-player campaign of Modern Warfare 3 will be much better and probably less glitchy and just ''maybe'', a little more 'realistic' like how Call of Duty 4 almost nailed down. Granted, this game and every other Call of Duty that comes afterwards will never be intended as 'realistic military simulators', and I understand and accept that, since Call of Duty is nothing more than a game you play for enjoyment rather than for the realism. But for what it's worth, I'm really hoping that this game turns out just as good as the first Modern Warfare did, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 06:33, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, couldn't have said it better :D I love how any time someone talks about COD, no matter the opinion, COD4 is ALWAYS mentioned as being good. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 29 August 2011 (CDT)

== M14 Derivative Spotted Possibly M21 EBR ==

Far right picture in second row of confirmed screenshots/concept art http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/183-more-concept-art-mw3 --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 15:34, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I seen it too, over on the CoD Wikia. So psyched that it's back. Also, it appears Captain Price is back :( Oh well, can't have everything I want :( --[[User:TheTrueNight|TheTrueNight]] 23:03, 30 August 2011

::YAY! Captain Price!!!! I am soooo happy! Even though I suppose we already knew he'd be back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:41, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

:::That art looks so awesome <3 --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 18:03, 30 August 2011 (CDT)

If you need proof that some people on the CoD wiki are morons, I got called a troll for saying this doesn't mean the M14 is confirmed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 02:40, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

:Haha, they also don't allow real life gun info on the weapon pages. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:52, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:: That was to stop it turning into a load of nerds swinging their virtual cocks around. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:07, 31 August 2011 (CDT)
:::Eh, the result is ignoring misinformation about weapons spread by the games (eg that there's such a thing as an M93R). Not exactly an improvement. Especially when the original games had writeups that talked about the real guns in their manuals. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:03, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyswpn6xzQ Bam.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:50, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
: And it's already been taken down; I think it got put up too early. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:57, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

::Was this the multiplayer reveal trailer? I've heard it'll come out during the live stream of CoD XP at 11AM LA time. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:41, 2 September 2011 (CDT)
::: In the meantime, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaYrfe1S650 here's] where someone else stuck it up. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:::: I saw a hk usp on a guys back. -- Joey1666

:::::Why would a pistol be on a guys back?! XD - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:12, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

:: It's been officially released now; Kotaku has an article with it. Some interesting new stuff in there. Bouncing Bettys, anyone? -[[User:Rhainor|Rhainor]] 07:46, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: Saw a Mk 46, USP Tactical, Remington MSR/XM2010, SVD. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 09:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

this trailer looks epic, when i seen the sniper 2: ghost warrior gameplay i knew they would have the msr on every new war game its in battlefield and this (waiting for homefront two lol)

:Why is the M4A1 still using 20-round magazines *facepalm*. Wanna bet that they will still hold 30 rounds? Using 20-round magazines on a modern assault carbine meant mainly for CQC = retarded. 15:24, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

: All footage - http://gamingeverything.com/?p=8478 -- [[User:Joey1666|Joey1666]]

== Equipment List (Not sure if it's leaked) ==

So, I was checking out Call of Duty Wiki for some MW3 news and I spotted this: http://beta.digitalwarfare247.com/games/modernwarfare3/195-mw3-multiplayer-info-blowout
It's a complete list with all equipment options, not sure if it's considered leaked. But from what I saw up to now some new weapons are:
:1. Mk.46/M249
:2. G36C w/ AG36 (YES!)
:3. PP-90M1
:4. MP5 (NOT the MP5K)
:5. AS50
:6. Remington MSR
:7. Dragunov SVD.
:Plus, the G36C has a really badass reload (kind of MW2 FAL-style) [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 16:45, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

OHMYGOD OHMYGOD THE SIG P226 WASN'T LISTED UNDER THE PISTOLS SECTION NOOOOOOO ARGLEBARGLE AUUGHH BLARGBLARG *dies*--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:14, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

Assault Rifles

close

M4A1
M16A4 - 3 round burst
SCAR-L
CM901
Type 95 - 3 round burst [lvl 32]
G36c - [lvl 42]
ACR 6.8 - [lvl 50]
MK14 - Semi-automatic [lvl 60]
AK-47 - [lvl 68]
FAD - [lvl 78]

LMGs

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L86 LSW
MG36
PKP Pecheneg
MK46 - [lvl 68]
M60E4 - [lvl 72]

Shotguns

close

USAS 12
KSG 12
SPAS 12
Striker - Semi-auto - [lvl 48]
Model 1887 - [lvl 62]

Machine pistols

close

FMG9
MP9
Scorpion - [lvl 36]
G18 - [lvl 70]

Pistols

close

USP .45
P99
MP412
.44 Magnum - [lvl 46]
Five Seven - [lvl 58]
Desert Eagle - [lvl 76]

Sub Machine Guns

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MP5
UMP
PP90M1
P90 [Lv. 38]
PM-9 [Lv. 56]
MP7 [Lv. 74]

Sniper Rifles

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Barrett .50 Cal
L118A (bolt action, looks similar to the L96 from Black Ops)
Dragunov
AS50
RSASS [Lv. 44]
MSR [Lv. 66]

Launchers

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SMAW
Javelin
Stinger - [lvl 40]
XM25 - [lvl 52]
M320 GLM - [lvl 64]
RPG - [lvl 80]

:Is this information considered leaked or can it be added to the main page? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 17:30, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

== COD XP 2011 Robert Bowling Interview ==

Shows some pretty interesting snippets of other weapons seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUJcoCq37I&feature=feedu
I see there is a L118A? / Arctic Warfare Sniper variant, HK USP, PP-90M1, SCAR-L (4:19, appears very briefly as a name tag), P99 Confirmed (name tag), M320 / AG36 (seen on G36C), CM901 (appears with a Tan Finish, Sniper Scope and Suppressor and firing fully automatic) [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:35, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

== weapon list ==

the list is supposed to be real and on the site it says the FAMAS was removed and the AK74U and AT4 are campaign only??

someone get proof please

: Well... that list isn't wrong, but there are more weapons than it states. Look at the Kotaku official screens, there's an M240B in one... which isn't listed. So I'd say that there's more than the list would lead you to believe.

:: No m1911 or Fal mentioned... Im dissapointed if that will be the final list. -- Joey1666

:::Yeah I was thinking that quite a few guns mentioned were missing, perhaps they're campaign-only like MW2's Dragunov. I hope not though, <3 the 240. Also the guy on that site claiming that the FAMAS was replaced by the QBZ-95 is a moron, they look nothing alike. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 05:45, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

== Cheeky machine gun gameplay ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3i-vASNb68 Here] is a short video showing some Mk46 and MG36 gameplay. The MG36 is hilariously badly modeled, ultrasadface. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 06:59, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Until the guy reloaded it and I saw the side of the weapon, I honestly had no idea that the model was meant to be the MG36... Also, from the brief shot I saw of it (during the loadout section) the L86-LSW has made a return. (Unfortunately, for me anyway) It's the old MW2 model with drum mag, carry-handle/barrel change and L85 handguard. --[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== PP-90M1 ==

This is not the same PP-90 that the gun redirects the user towards. One is a folding submachine gun, the other is a helical-fed submachine gun. They are two entirely different weapons, at least, according to Wikipedia: "other than sharing a manufacturer is unrelated to the similarly named PP-90M."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-90M1] Also, if it hasn't been done already...looks like the PP-90M1 needs a page to itself. [[User:Arcdash|Arcdash]] 07:44, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Enfield SA80

2011-08-21T19:45:14Z

Spanner: /* Questions about Carbines */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the orrigional L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defence force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visist.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got alot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's alot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

::::::::If you fitted a C mag or stacked/clamped magazines into an L85 or L86 the magazine would get in the way of the mag release button and you'd need a screwdriver or multitool to get the mag release to work. The C mag itself wouldn't get in the way of your chest unless you were wearing a vest or rucksack, but it definitely gets in the way of your trigger hand. -[[User:HairySteve|HairySteve]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. One of the main 'design flaws' that 'experts' commented on at the time was the lack of a 7.62 round and how the SA80 was fully automatic. Do you know what squaddies were doing in the Falklands War to get their 7.62 SLRs to fire in full (well, burst)? Sticking match sticks in the chamber. Half the 'experts' complaints against the SA80 are old traditionalists who want the British Army to go back to 'ye olde glory days' of the 'mad minuite' with Lee-Enfields. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight. As the last line from ARRSE says, "the nice new versions aren't that bad, really. However, johnny squaddie is likely to always miss the nice destructive power that the SLR gave him, and so the whingeing will continue for a long time"
:The guys in the Falklands were getting full auto FAL's by using captured Argentinian gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 11:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Never seen, heard or read anything suggesting they used any captured rifles - where'd you find that out? I've only ever seen the '3 match trick' used by the British forces in the Falklands campaign, but I suppose some units may have 'borrowed' the Argentinian rifles. That the SA80 comes as standard with full-auto as an option is good in my books. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L22A2 ==

Just a small niggle, but contrary to what the article currently says, the current issue SA80 carbine is the L22A2. The confusion comes from the fact that the L22A1 version was made but never widely issued, if at all, and I believe that this version is what is labelled as the L22 prototype in the article. I'm not sure if the original version was designated as the L22A1 at the time or whether this is a backronym, but current official MOD documents refer to the current version as "CARBINE, 5.56, L22A2", and this is backed up by the Light Weapons group at the UK's Defence Academy at Watchfield, who claim to have possibly the last remaining L22A1. Does anyone know something I don't meaning it shouldn't be changed? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

== L64 Service? ==

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the Wikipedia article was that the XL64 actually ''saw service'' with the Brits from the 1960s to 1980s. Is this true, or am I just mis-interpreting things?[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 05:25, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
To my knowledge during that time it was L1A1's and M16 types, as the rifles for squadies, and other weapons for support troops, MGs, Snipers and the like.

Most likely limited service for field testing. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::The information surrounding this is difficult to find, and conflicting at best. Different books say different things, and hell, the British Army's technical museum (REME) and the ordanance museum (RA) say different things. The (X)L64 (and XL65 LSW)did see field testing in the very late 60's to mid 70's (around '78 the 5.56mm XL70- series arrived). There are a handful of photos showing this. Did it see ''combat'' service? Well, a handful of sources have suggested that the Royal Marines/SBS used the L64 and XL70 in the Falklands - however, I have yet to see proof that they did. The XL70E3 did see service in Northern Ireland. The M16 only saw service with one unit at the time IRRC, - the Paras, in Northern Ireland - the date for the photos I have been shown is 1982 - the M16 never saw mass use in the British forces. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L85A1 flash hider ==

In the top screenshot for the L85A1 (the rifle with the iron sights) it is fitted with a shorter flash hider. I've never seen this kind of flash hider on an L85A1, does anyone know if this was ever fitted, or is this some kind of modification to the L85A1 to fit a permanent inside the barrel BFA? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The photo looks oddly like the Prexis (American civvi market semi-auto) clone of the L98A1 cadet rifle. The PR85 has that flash hider, but I can't remember if the L98s had it or not. I've only ever seen that flash hider on that pic.
:::Do you have a pic of this, as I have done a search and can only find pictures of the prototype kit, and it appears to use the standard flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I think I should point this out - the L85 with 40mm launcher isn't real. It's a STAR L85A2 airsoft gun, with ARES launcher. I know this because the photo was first posted on an airsoft site, by someone I know. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:That makes sense. Have never seen the combination of iron sights and UGL, probably because UGL is only used by front line units, which will always use optics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 22:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The real give away for me that it was the guy's skirmishing replica was the carpet floor tiles its resting on... As for the PR85, the photo on the sight is different from when I first came across it last year (it now has the real flash hider) One other thought I've had on this - it could be one of the first LSW flash hiders. The last prototype A1 LSWs had similar flash hiders (and were unable to fit bayonets)
So, my thoughts are it could be a prototype. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Questions about Carbines ==

Two questions to knowledgeable ones about carbines:

Is L85 Carbine a fictional version made up by AirSoft manufacturers and is there an Iron Sights version of L22 Carbine?

Do you mean the carbine with the handguard from the LSW?
I'm not 100% sure on the numbers, but I believe RSOV made around 100 of them as prototypes. They were issued on very limited basis to tank crews. They never (officially anyway) made it into A2 status. They were a fine example of 1980s British engineering (done on the cheap and as quickly as possible!) - they were standard L85s with the barrels sawn off (literally) and the LSW's handguard bolted on. They were cheaper to make than the L22/AFV/SA80K which required new gas block parts.
As for the L22 (which is in service in all British Forces under the name SA80K-A2 instead of the usual land 'L' designation), I have honestly never seen them without a SUSAT. That said I can't see the point in them using iron sights, as the gas-block (where the front iron sight on all SA80 types is mounted) has been moved so far back and made flush with the receiver, the front iron sight would be an inch away from the rear sight/carry handle... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-05-24T07:38:15Z

Spanner: /* Plot Holes */

Oh God, another Call of Duty. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:05, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

AK74su-type(AKS-74u)weapon in screenshot as well as FN FAL similar to the one in Modern Warfare 2.

Visible in this screenshot

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/prague_resistance_rioter_civ_02.jpg

Also, there's some type of Sig Sauer pistol in this screenshot on the chest

http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/05/sas_lmg.jpg

Looks like the M18 Smoke Grenade returns. -[[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:07 AM (EST)
== Title ==

This page should be moved to "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" since that is the official title. Don't let the "Modern Warfare 2" page confuse you, that's fucked up also. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:49, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I also think that the title should be the official title, so I already changed it. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:40, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

==Issues==

We have no confirmation from anyone that any of these images are legit. Should this page even exist? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I don't see any evidence proving to the contrary either. We'll live, if it's not legit, then it'll be taken off. Seems like an insanely elaborate hoax to basically render half of a game's weapon arsenal and create a ton of concept art, in addition to the images of the NPC skins and such. You could be right, but, in all likelihood... this is a leak of legitimate information.

If it is legit though, how do we know it's final? This could be a deliberate leak of outdated info and models. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:11, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

Even if it isn't final, it's still worthwhile to put in. The G3 was in a trailer for Modern Warfare 2, and the last time I checked, it was still on the imfdb page.

There is a update to this Modern Warfare 3 leak. Robert Bowling of Infinity Ward tweeted this: "A lot of hype & a lot of leaked info on #MW3, some still accurate, some not. To avoid spoiling the experience, I'd wait for the real reveal." So I'm guessing the leak IS legitimate [[User:SeanWolf]]

Well, as much as I think Bowling is a self-absorbed hipster, this is good. I assume the "tangible" pics and stuff like that are more concrete than some of the story details and map names "Plaza 2", was probably changed/cut. Either way, good for identifying stuff.

Oh god, the KSG. Here's hoping they use both of that weapon's mag tubes instead of restricting you to only one of them --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 23:02, 13 May 2011 (CDT)

I am a huge fan of the KSG. Yeah, I really agree with you there. Though, in the previous Modern Warfares, they've limited the M1014 to the capacity of a KAC Masterkey for balancing purposes. Wouldn't get my hopes up.

:My biggest fear with the KSG is how IW or whoever is really making it will make the KSG act in-game. My thought process tells me "Somehow, I think their gonna make it fire like a double barrelled shotgun, two shots at the same time". Given IW's creditability and COD's inaccuracy with real world weapons in game, this to me seems like a likely possibility. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:38, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yes, but, would it really be that noticeable? I mean, what would be the difference over firing one round? It's still a pump-action, so regardless, you'd still have to rack the pump back. They didn't make the Ranger shotgun or the Olympia fire both rounds at the same time, they're double barreled as well.
:You actually got two firing triggers when you use a single Ranger --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 09:12, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Which is plausible, because it has two triggers on the real-world model. On the KSG, IF, big IF, they made it fire two rounds at the same time for some reason, they'd probably operate under the assumption that you're switching tubes between each shot. I don't know, just giving IW the benefit of the doubt for now. They don't seem to have messed up with any of their modern shotguns except in the realm of magazine capacity.

==Winchester Model 1887==
What in the name of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit did they do to that shotgun. *Pukes all over keyboard*. I mean, I love CoD as much as the next person (I just look past the mistakes (Russians with Tavors, and TDI Vectors)), but THAT just looks ridiculous!!! - [[User:1morey]] May 14, 2011 12:09 AM (EST)

I mean, it's the "CoD Universe", IW can make the Russians use whatever weapons they want. It's no different/worse than Special Operations personnel using MP5k airsoft replicas [They did in MW2], or using MG4's for that matter, and ACR's. Call of Duty was never intended to be a military simulator, even less so starting to really become obvious with MW2 [A US Army General firing a revolver on the front lines]. However, on topic, the 1887 never should've been in the game in my opinion. There are plenty of shotguns, and IW seems to just copy and paste things from movies rather than being original. As for the depiction in MW3, at least they made the 1887 unique. Granted, it's silly, but for a game weapon... it's much more fitting to "tacticalize" it.
:Also as far as multiplayer is concerned, the removal of the enlarged loop means that you will no longer be able to flip cock it, therefore no longer able to dual wield... unless IW does it anyway which means that technically the player would be breaking their fingers every time they do a flip cock. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 17:10, 18 May 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, gonna' have to side with you on that one. IW showers in the over the top, unoriginal, borderline plagiarism from popular movies. There's no logical advantage for them to include the 1887 unless it's able to be dual wielded. But, like you said, they may have tacticalized it to be a "modern lever-action shotgun", whilst taking out the dual wield capability. We'll see.
:I'd rather see them give us a nice lever-action rifle than the 1887 again. Not enough games have them, and it's not like "the army doesn't use them" is a valid excuse in a series where a military firing range has Deagles lying around. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:54, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

I'd rather them just scrap lever actions altogether. Certainly, the argument of "The army doesn't use them" isn't really relevant, perhaps the argument "No army would even consider using it" is more fitting. But when nobody uses an overall design archetype (Lever Action) in a tactical setting, it seems silly to include it as a shotgun or not. In other words, in my opinion, lever actions have no place in Modern Warfare both the game and the concept. 1887 should've never been in MW2, because it set a precedent that it was okay to put absurdly pointless weapons in CoD games.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Several armies not only considered using them but actually did. That's rather more than the number of armies which have ever considered using the WA2000 or Desert Eagle, which last I checked was zero. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:12, 20 May 2011 (CDT)

Which armies? Were they in this century? If not then it's irrelevant to the term "Modern". Most, if not all lever-action overall designs were prominent before the turn of the 20th century. No modern military uses lever-actions when they could just be using more modern semi-automatic weapons that operate on various methods (recoil/gas/etc).[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:Um, Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1, and there's several modern designs like the Browning BLR. Most sniper rifles in military service are still manual actions (as opposed to marksman rifles, which are the semi-autos), they just tend to be bolt actions rather than lever or pump. Leverguns are just as common in military use as gas-operated rotating bolt pistols, $80,000 semi-auto rifles or off-axis blowback subguns (ie not), and more to the point, the setting of an invaded US means civilian weapons can be included within the setting. For example, you could have a level where you're a Marine who was on leave and only has his hunting rifle and his wits to make his way through enemy lines and assemble with his unit. Or given that such levels usually have a helper NPC, you're the Marine's kid who insisted on coming along to help fight the good fight. For bonus points, reveal halfway through the level that the kid is the Marine's daughter rather than his son; I'd pay good money to watch the forum fallout from that. "Kotick made me play as a GIRL! Now I have COOTIES!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:17, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:You do bring up a valid point, MW3 is based in an invasion US. Theoretically, they could add the civilian weapons for this reason, but CoD has always been a strictly military deal. But then again, MW2 involved an invasion US, and there were no civilian player-characters. Furthermore, "Russia was still using Winchesters right into WW1", this game is not in WW1 and warfare/technology has changed quite a lot since then. There is nothing modern about the BLR's design, save for some features that make it easier to use (Moving trigger/detachable magazine), and still... it's not used by -any- military, current or otherwise. Bolt action sniper rifles are just that, bolt action, not lever action, regardless I'm talking about service rifles/shotguns not high end sniper rifles. Lever-action weapons are not common in militaries of this century (21st) by any means. Lever actions should not be included in a modern military setting, year 2000 and beyond. There are no lever actions being used by any current formal military force as far as I'm aware, certainly not the ones we're talking about (NATO countries, Russians). They've got no place in modern warfare because the design has been outclassed by others, hence why they're not used. Even in Khyber pass bootleg weapons from Pakistan/Afghanistan, or South American countries, it'd be a stretch to see them using lever-actions... the design is -that- outdated.[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:56, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

::Again pointing out that no military has ever used or considered using the Desert Eagle either. Or the SPAS-12. Or the TDI Vector. Or the WA2000. CoD's weapon list has been in la-la land since we had German soldiers with StG-44s at Stalingrad in the first game and hasn't really come back since then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:00, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:For different reasons. No modern military uses lever-actions because they're outdated. Desert Eagle, should never have been in the game, not saying it should. It's not used because it's not practical. TDI Vector, it's not used because it's new and the benefits are negligeble. WA2000, it's a trophy weapon which has a price-tag of a BMW and less than 200 were built, obviously not a choice. SPAS-12, used by various militaries around the world (Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh), in addition to SWAT/SRT teams around the world. The weapons you listed are not used for various reasons, not for being antiquated technology. You can't deny that IW put the 1887 in because it was "badass" in the Terminator movie, that's the only reason. The STG44 thing doesn't bother me, seeing as it was used in WW2, which is the timeframe in which the game was set, though in limited numbers later on in real life. However, the 1887 has no purpose in game or out. The Desert Eagle, has no purpose in real-life but it does serve a role in game (High Damage sidearm with low mag capacity). Thus, the Desert Eagle is tolerable, the 1887 is just pointless. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the section is titled "Winchester Model 1887", not "Weapons that shouldn't be in the game" thus I would focus on this weapon, rather than the others in the game that shouldn't be there in my opinion. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 12:53, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm not entirely sure why you're opposed to this, though; we've already got a laundry list of weapons no military would ever dream of using, so one more or less hardly matters. I'm saying I'd rather see a lever-action rifle than the 1887 again, since that would actually be a nice variation from the usual bolts and semi-autos and could be interesting for variation (levers being faster but harder to use while prone). I equally don't see the point of trolling out the antique shotgun again, this time with a stack of silly accessories on it that makes ''Black'' look positively restrained. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:50, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
::A lever-action rifle would have been a great idea in Black Ops, but not in the "Modern" Warfare games where they should stick with using the correct "modern" weapons that each country actually uses, plus some other '''sensible''' new age weapons. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:33, 23 May 2011 (CDT)
:My point is that the design incorporating a lever-action, has no place in any modern military setting, at all, shotgun or rifle included. It'd be akin to using a flintlock in a modern warfare video game, it's simply outdated technology on a design level that's no longer used by modern military forces. That is why I'm opposed to it, it's not like the TDI Vector or Desert Eagle not being used (For different reasons, which I explained in depth, none of which includes an outdated design) because they are both modern weapons that incorporate modern designs. Bottom line, if you want lever-actions, play Red Dead Redemption. Granted it's a video game and not a military simulator at that but IW putting in outdated weaponry simply because it was in a movie, when they are supposed to be working with pseudo-real world operators and scenarios, is silly. The tacticalized variant as shown in MW3 is certainly a step in the right direction, if you want a pristine replica of a beautiful antique weapon, again, Call of Duty is not the appropriate place to search for such and nor should it be. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 11:12, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

==Barrett M107/M82 Error==

It seems IW thinks that there's some sort of bolt/ejection port, being visible on the left side of the receiver of the M107. As far as I know, the left side is flat and the right hand side has the bolt mechanism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's like this in MW2 and not in CoD4.

To clarify, it seems that IW has made the M107 receiver open on both sides, rather than just having the bolt handle on the right. Probably should be corrected, but can be lived with. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:57, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

== Gunz ==

Is it just me or anyone else agrees that these guns are f#&king ugly? What did they do to that poor MP5A2? Not to mention the Winchester and the "AK-47". BTW the game will take place around 2012, yet the Russians will still use the "AK-47". Well, it is still better than them using U.S. guns, right? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:26, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

How do you know the game will take place in 2012? If Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare took place in 2011, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is 5 years later (2016), so how MW3, which is a direct sequel to MW2, taking place in 2012? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:39, 14 May 2011 (CDT)
:Sorry, my bad, I thought COD4 was in 2007 since it was releases in that year. I knew that MW2 was 5 years later, thats why I wrote 2012. Anyways, that won't make the difference. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:32, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

Again, Call of Duty was never meant to be a military simulator. If you want realism, look at the Battlefield series and ARMA series. Call of Duty has always been a playable action movie, that happens to be based in a real-world (First 1-3, Black Ops, WaW) or fictional (Modern Warfare) war.

Russians have used AK variants since the late 1940's... that's over sixty years of use. What's so outlandish about them using it for another twenty? IW calls it an "AK-47" because that's what people identify as the general AK weapon pattern. It's a video game. How exactly is it better than them using US weapons? Many foreign nations use the AR platform, amongst other weapon systems designed in the United States. Hell, most of the United States' small arms are provided/designed by Fabrique Nationale, a Belgian company. As I said before, it's a "Call of Duty Universe", not an explicitly real world universe, IW has creative license to put whatever weapons in the hands of whatever faction they see fit.

As for the weapons, they look fine to me. Some have been tacticalized, yes, but it makes them unique to the game and in specific cases like the 1887, it makes it more plausible for an almost 130 year old weapon to be included in a Modern setting used by people who have access to better designed shotguns. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

I am wondering why we don't see an 870 or a Mossberg in these games? It's weird as well that they would include a really old gun like the 1887 but none of the pump actions. And the SPAS-12 doesn't count because it's been overused in this series to death. I bet for the ACR's reload animation, they are not going to have the model press a button to release the bolt. Most likely they'll just reuse the AK reload animation and have the shooting hand reach over and rack the charging handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:17, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:For the sake of it, I do wish we could have a 870 or a Mossberg in-game, even if it was one of these "Starter" guns. I wouldn't care if it was "Tacticalized" or not, as long as it's there. I could somehow imagine in a perfect world following MW2 as an example, a Remington 870 MCS as a primary shotgun loaded with slugs and a Aimpoint Sight with the Bling Perk while using a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser that was "Tacticalized" as a secondary shotgun loaded with Buckshot. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:43, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Thank God they are bringing back a full size MP5. I am so sick of the MP5K. And what is up with the magazine on the M4? Is it supposed to be a 20 rounder or they messed up the design again? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:19, 14 May 2011 (CDT)

:Amen to that! Though somewhere in the back of mind, I sometimes think they're gonna add the MP5K back in as some "other" weapon, maybe if they were to stick to MW2 styling, I could imagine it as a Machine Pistol alongside maybe the PP-2000 and TMP. Also, I can't escape the feeling that IW is gonna try and copy Treyarch in some way by trying to copy Black Op's example with the AK(S)-74U and attach a grenade launcher to it. It would be awesome all the same though. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 00:55, 15 May 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, well at this point, I've just given up on reload animations in Call of Duty. I agree, I am stoked for the full sized MP5. As for the M4, no clue, could be to balance it somehow? But, these are probably early development screens, wouldn't put it on being concrete just yet. If a MW3 forum goes up, I'll see about getting a 30 round magazine back for the M4 as I did see the MW2 M4 in a few of the screens on the Kotaku locations video. Shotguns, yeah, 870 would be lovely but... I could care less, why use a shotgun when you've got 7.62x51

Seems like they're pretty covered on the shotgun front, except for a traditional 870 style. But, I am a bit worried regarding the LMG's. None shown. Banking on the M27 IAR. CoD4, M4 with Bandolier, Stopping Power, and Deep Impact on Hardcore was my impromptu IAR class, always loved the concept. Either way, would like to see the return of a M249 variant (Mk 46/Mk 48). [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:I had heard rumours that the M249 was reappearing as a "Possible" returning LMG. But I had also heard that somewhere, IW was going to make three variants of MG's featured in Multiplayer. Ranging from Light Support type weapons similar to "Black Ops", with 30 round magazines like the HK21 or RPK or just modified assault rifles with a bigger magazine, as well as other LMG's and SAW's like the M249, with GPMG's being the M240 or the M60 and finally mounted HMG's like the Browning M2 fixed into certain tactical positions.

Source? Wouldn't get my hopes up for ADDING any weapon classes, at least until I saw proof. IW tends to want to simplify things, not divide things up and add diversity. However, even if they put all of those types into the overall LMG category, would be wonderful. M27 IAR, Mk 46/48, RPD, PKM, MG3, M240L are my top choices.

However, sniper rifles are a subject of concern for me as well. MW2 including ONE bolt-action? This was a fatal flaw for me, the M40A3 was so much fun to use and the Cheytac kind of sucks. They've got a good lineup of sniper rifles here, RSASS, M107, EBR, but no bolt-action. RSASS is a good move because I've always wanted an SR-25 type weapon in CoD. They need a Russian sniper rifle of course and a few bolt actions (M40A5 or XM2010, Desert Tactical SRS (Bullpup bolt-action), and L115A3 would be all good choices). In addition, I've always wanted to see a Mk 12 SPR sniper rifle in CoD, something that did low damage but had a high magazine capacity. Would be great for Hardcore. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

very exciting looking at those leaked pics....and i gotta say its a nice line-up of guns so far...some old standard ones (M4, AK-47; M107) and some new ones i've never seen before like that KSG or the Magpul FMG (OMG the box gun from Robocop2!!!). Also i'm very glad to see the old 203 gone in favor for the newer M320! The AA-12 is cool but i didnt like it in MW2...it was just not that usefull because the boxmag so was spent within a second. the 20round drum mag would make so much more sence.
I really hope they bring back the M249, preferebly as the Mk46 or even Mk48 and introduce some new Russian MG like the PKM with the Blackwater-Rail System.
One question though: is the KSG something very special or simply a bullpup pump-action shotgun? [[User:WARthog|WARthog]] 07:20, 16 May 2011 (CDT)

Ugh, again with the sporterized AK's, dont suppose they actually look at what the Russians use.

:The Russians have been looking at AK's with various rail systems. Take a look at the AK-200. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/27/ak-200-rifle-the-21st-century-ak/. Regardless, it's Call of Duty, not a simulator by any means. The AK in MW3 looks to be a step in the right direction over the airsoft-inspired replica in MW2. The KSG is a pump action shotgun which features the use of two tubes, doubling the capacity of a normal shotgun in this configuration and gives the operator the ability to switch tube magazines once one is expended (Due to magazine capacity laws). But in practice, it features a 14+1 magazine capacity, which is astounding when compared to normally configured shotguns like Remington 870's. Also, it features a twelve and I believe six o'clock rail for mounting of accessories. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

:If it's got a six o'clock rail, does that mean we'll be able to stick a Masterkey on it and have a shotgun with a back-up shotgun? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

The KSG is a pump-action shotgun. If you did put an underbarrel-type shotgun on it, then you wouldn't have enough room to pull the pump back enough to eject a shell. Besides, that would be unnecessary and impractical. The KSG had two magazine tubes, so if you needed a breaching round, beanbag round, or etc. instead of buckshot, then you could just switch the feed over to swap from lethal to nonlethal. A question about the MP5, what differences are there between the Navy and A2 model? Other than the lower receiver being metal with a new trigger group instead of synthetic with a German fire selector layout. The MP5 in MW3 looks like a Navy model but I'm guessing there's a reason someone changed it to A2. Just wondering if I was wrong. And how do I automatically leave a sig at the end of my messages? xD new to the site. -

:You use the masterkey as the pump, silly. It's genius! (Or rather, it's no less silly than some of the things the series ''has'' done in the past). Leaving a sig is four tildes (~) in a row. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:27, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:But if you used the masterkey then it would take up all the ro- oh I see what you did there. And thanks for the sig help. [[User:Scutshakes|Scutshakes]] 01:34, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

:Plus, any under-barrel attachments have been confined to the Assault Rifle class, and more recently, the AK74su "SMG" in Black Ops, which in real life... is still an Assault Rifle. Shotguns have no precedent in CoD for having under-barrel attachments of any sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 10:58, 21 May 2011 (CDT)

Can someone help me identify the weapon the guy on the front-right is holding? Looks like an RPD or RPK to me http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/wtfisthisk.jpg/ --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 20:44, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

: Pretty sure that's the RPD, yep. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:21, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

Only not-yet-seen weapons I saw during the trailer were the P90 at 0:32, FAMAS at 0:35, UMP at 1:04, RPD at 0:52, and an unknown weapon with a flashlight at 0:55, looks to be a bullpup of some sort. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:38, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

==HELL YEAH==

the guns are supposed to look rusty and mangled and outdated because its a fully urban war environment like homefont

i think the new model looks badass in a stealthy black camo

does anyone know if these pictures have been confirmed to be real

: Robert Bowling said that the leaks were mostly accurate, likely alluding to the fact that they're from an early build of the game. So some stuff might've changed, but this is what we know so far. What model are you talking about specifically? I don't really see rusty and mangled anywhere, the weapons all look pretty pristine to me. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:35, 22 May 2011 (CDT)

==Plot Holes==
So the campaign takes place in (from what appeared in the leak) New York, France and Germany. Besides the massive stupidity of Russia invading the U.S. East-to-West. How would Russia manage to fight it's way through Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine, the Baltic states and the Czech Republic into Germany AND then through Belgium and Holland to get into France. At this point, I think even China would be over-extended watching over eight modern, democratic nations and be fighting a a war with two of the strongest of these plus the U.S. But at this point Activision could release a fifteen minute demo and it'll still sell millions of copies. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:16, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

A possible explanation is that in their new found "ultra-nationalist" rage, they take over or make a new alliance with all the former warsaw pact countries. That would explain a few things on the man power problem, a possible explanation is that similar defense system breaches occur in the attacked areas (like in MW2 DC got waylayed pretty early). Maybe NATO got complacent with the Russian threat and signed a non-aggression pact(WWII). Still I agree with you there is no way in hell they could attack NYC, Germaney, England, and France all at the same time having already attacked the eastren seaboard in Mw2. Seeing as CoD is the 10 ton ape in the consumers eyes, it really wont matter.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 01:44, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

::The plot for London getting attacked is (or atleast was) that terrorists funded by the Russians attack London. The SAS raid part of the Docklands (I think that is East London) where the Russian terrorists are, but basically end up chasing them all over London, ending with a gun fight infront of Parliament (surely we'd also see one of the Guard regiments as well, since they're both in London?). Whilst I'll let the "London's Burning" bit of the plot slide as it is plausible (if ''very'' unlikely), I agree, the rest doesn't seem to make sense. But hey-ho, this is CodMod, where reality takes a back seat so that we can enjoy bombing around in Berlin, Paris, NYC and London... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Enfield SA80

2011-02-27T00:00:23Z

Spanner: /* L85A1 flash hider */

Talk:Enfield SA80

2011-02-26T15:10:21Z

Spanner: /* L85A1 flash hider */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the orrigional L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defence force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visist.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got alot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's alot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

::::::::If you fitted a C mag or stacked/clamped magazines into an L85 or L86 the magazine would get in the way of the mag release button and you'd need a screwdriver or multitool to get the mag release to work. The C mag itself wouldn't get in the way of your chest unless you were wearing a vest or rucksack, but it definitely gets in the way of your trigger hand. -[[User:HairySteve|HairySteve]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. One of the main 'design flaws' that 'experts' commented on at the time was the lack of a 7.62 round and how the SA80 was fully automatic. Do you know what squaddies were doing in the Falklands War to get their 7.62 SLRs to fire in full (well, burst)? Sticking match sticks in the chamber. Half the 'experts' complaints against the SA80 are old traditionalists who want the British Army to go back to 'ye olde glory days' of the 'mad minuite' with Lee-Enfields. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight. As the last line from ARRSE says, "the nice new versions aren't that bad, really. However, johnny squaddie is likely to always miss the nice destructive power that the SLR gave him, and so the whingeing will continue for a long time"
:The guys in the Falklands were getting full auto FAL's by using captured Argentinian gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 11:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Never seen, heard or read anything suggesting they used any captured rifles - where'd you find that out? I've only ever seen the '3 match trick' used by the British forces in the Falklands campaign, but I suppose some units may have 'borrowed' the Argentinian rifles. That the SA80 comes as standard with full-auto as an option is good in my books. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L22A2 ==

Just a small niggle, but contrary to what the article currently says, the current issue SA80 carbine is the L22A2. The confusion comes from the fact that the L22A1 version was made but never widely issued, if at all, and I believe that this version is what is labelled as the L22 prototype in the article. I'm not sure if the original version was designated as the L22A1 at the time or whether this is a backronym, but current official MOD documents refer to the current version as "CARBINE, 5.56, L22A2", and this is backed up by the Light Weapons group at the UK's Defence Academy at Watchfield, who claim to have possibly the last remaining L22A1. Does anyone know something I don't meaning it shouldn't be changed? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

== L64 Service? ==

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the Wikipedia article was that the XL64 actually ''saw service'' with the Brits from the 1960s to 1980s. Is this true, or am I just mis-interpreting things?[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 05:25, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
To my knowledge during that time it was L1A1's and M16 types, as the rifles for squadies, and other weapons for support troops, MGs, Snipers and the like.

Most likely limited service for field testing. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::The information surrounding this is difficult to find, and conflicting at best. Different books say different things, and hell, the British Army's technical museum (REME) and the ordanance museum (RA) say different things. The (X)L64 (and XL65 LSW)did see field testing in the very late 60's to mid 70's (around '78 the 5.56mm XL70- series arrived). There are a handful of photos showing this. Did it see ''combat'' service? Well, a handful of sources have suggested that the Royal Marines/SBS used the L64 and XL70 in the Falklands - however, I have yet to see proof that they did. The XL70E3 did see service in Northern Ireland. The M16 only saw service with one unit at the time IRRC, - the Paras, in Northern Ireland - the date for the photos I have been shown is 1982 - the M16 never saw mass use in the British forces. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L85A1 flash hider ==

In the top screenshot for the L85A1 (the rifle with the iron sights) it is fitted with a shorter flash hider. I've never seen this kind of flash hider on an L85A1, does anyone know if this was ever fitted, or is this some kind of modification to the L85A1 to fit a permanent inside the barrel BFA? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

::The photo looks oddly like the Prexis (American civvi market semi-auto) clone of the L98A1 cadet rifle. The PR85 has that flash hider, but I can't remember if the L98s had it or not. I've only ever seen that flash hider on that pic.

Also, I think I should point this out - the L85 with 40mm launcher isn't real. It's a STAR L85A2 airsoft gun, with ARES launcher. I know this because the photo was first posted on an airsoft site, by someone I know. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Outcasts

2011-02-23T16:20:19Z

Spanner: /* Outcasts */

== Outcasts ==

Does anyone have any screen shots from this BBC mini series? Theres L85s and Glocks in it and im sure there are more guns
--[[User:GunGunGun|GunGunGun]] 15:45, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

::From what I've seen so far, there are L85A2s (look like ICS airsoftguns with plastics and mags painted white, and only have iron sights), orange Glocks (I'd say 17s) and what look like H&K USPs. The second episode had something that looked like an L86 LSW but with some 'sci-fi' bits and carry handle on the barrel - but it was on screen so briefly I couldn't tell.

Enfield SA80

2011-02-07T22:14:03Z

Spanner: /* L86A2 */

The '''SA80''' ('''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80'''s) is a series of 5.56x45mm bullpup assault rifles and light support weapons designed on the operation of the [[Armalite AR-18]] and SAR-87 (An advanced AR-18 made by the rival company Sterling Armaments of Dagenham), and produced from 1985 to 1994 by the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock.

In 1988 production of the rifle was transferred to the Royal Ordnance’s Nottingham Small Arms Facility (later British Aerospace, Royal Ordnance; now BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions & Ordnance).

'''The SA80 can be seen in the following films, television series, anime and video games used by the following actors:'''

==Specifications==

''(1985-1994)''
*'''Type:''' Assault Rifle
*'''Caliber:''' 5.56x45mm NATO
*'''Capacity:''' 20, 30-round STANAG magazines
*'''Fire Modes:''' repetition (semiautomatic), automatic (safety is NOT a fire mode and is separate to the selector)

=L85=

==L85A1==
The original variant of the SA80 series issued to the British forces. These were manufactured by Royal Ordnance (Formerly known as Enfield) from 1985 until 1994 after the notorious faults of the weapon in battlefield conditions.

[[Image:Sa80-l85a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Aliens]] || || || Seen on gun rack on ''Sulaco'' in extended edition || 1986
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army Guards || With covered SUSAT scopes and bayonets || 1992
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 1992
|-
| [[Police Story 3: Supercop ]] || || Royal Hong Kong police officer || || 1992
|-
| [[The Devil's Own]] || || British Army soldiers || With SUSAT scopes|| 1997
|-
| [[Dog Soldiers]] || || British Army soldiers || With blank-firing adaptors and SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Underworld]] || || || With SUSAT scope, seen on gun rack || 2003
|-
| [[Resident Evil: Extinction]] || [[Linden Ashby]] || Chase || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
| [[Doomsday]] || || British Army Guards || Appear to be old airsoft toys (due to mini Union Flag near butt plate) || 2008
|-
| [[Punisher: War Zone]] || || ||Seen on gun rack || 2009
|-
| [[Kick-Ass]] || || ||Seen on gun rack || 2010
|}
===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Bugs]]/"Stealth" || || || || 1995 - 1999
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || [[Robson Green]] || Dave Tucker|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || ??? || British Army soldiers|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Alliance soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Browncoats || || 2002
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]] || ??? || Honor guards || w/white-painted handguard and lower receiver || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]]/"Resistance", "The Farm" || ??? || Caprica Resistance fighters || w/ SUSAT scopes || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Situation Critical]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2007
|-
| [[Zero Hour]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || || 2004-2007
|-
| [[Caprica]] || ??? ||Caprican police officer || ||2010
|-
| [[Red Cap]] || [[Tamzin Outhwaite]], others || British Army || W/SUSATs or Iron Sights || 2003-4
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || w/ SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas (PSP)]] || || || ||
|-
| [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]] || IL86 || w/optional [[M203 grenade launcher]] and suppressor || Erroneously shown with controls inverted onto the lefthand side || 2007
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film/Series Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Akira]] || Neo Tokyo Police troops || w/SUSAT scopes || 1987
|-
| [[Spriggan]] || British (?) troops || || 1994
|}
 

==L85A2==

The L85A2 is a revamped version of the L85A1 with improved components, most notably the external 'Comma' shaped combined charging handle/brass deflector and stronger internal parts. The upgrading of L85A1 rifles to the L85A2 standard was carried out by Heckler & Koch between 2002 and 2006; since then further improvements have been made in response to operational requirements, including new RIS/RAS equipped foreguards and the adoption of the ACOG sight by some units in Afghanistan. The new foreguards and the adoption of the Elcan Spectre as the official replacement of the SUSAT will be applied to all British Army units over the next three to four years.

[[Image:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sa80-l85a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:L85A2AG36.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 5.56x45mm with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] 40mm]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[28 Days Later]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes, with and without bayonet || 2002
|-
| [[Children of Men]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 2006
|-
| [[Flood]] || || British soldiers || || 2007
|-
|}

===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Sherlock]] / S01E01 - "A Study in Pink" || ??? || British Army soldier || w/SUSAT scope || 2010
|-
| [[Doctor Who (New Series)|Doctor Who]] || ??? || British Army paratroopers || w/and w/out Surefire weaponlights || 2005 - ????
|-
| [[Ultimate Force]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002 - 2006
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; {|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig|Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. 2nd GIG]]||British soldiers||With futuristic furniture, cybernetic sights and underbarrel M203||2004-2005
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || With AG36 grenade launcher || || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With grippod foregrip and optional L17A2 grenade launcher, ACOG or SUSAT scopes || || 2005
|-
| [[Battlefield 2: Modern Combat]] || || w/[[M203 grenade launcher]] || || 2005
|-
| [[Ghost Recon 2]] || SA-80A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2004
|-
| [[Counter-Strike Online]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]] || || w/various optional accessories || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: Confrontation]] || IW-80 A2 || || || 2008
|-
| [[Delta Force: Task Force Dagger]] || Sa-80 A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2002
|-
| [[Contra 4]] || || || || 2007
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || SA80A2 || w/ RIS, SUSAT, EOTech sights; also can be fitted with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] || || 2010
|-
|}
 

=L22=

==L22 Prototype==
Converted from L86A1 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC, RAC and some REME Crew as a personal defence weapon. Often wrongly refered to as the L22A1, this gun was never given an L designation, known only as an SA80 AFV or Armoured Fighting Vehicle.

[[Image:Sa80-l22a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|SA80 AFV prototype with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Killing Floor]] || Bullpup || w/EOTech red dot sight and 40-round magazine || || 2009
|-
|}
 

==L22A1==
Converted from L86A2 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC Crew as a personal defense weapon. Often wrongly labled the L22A2. The L22A1 has the same internal modification as the L85A2 and L86A2, but as the modification were done before the L22 was officially introduced it is designated the L22A1, new upgrades are now available such as the 20rnd magazine and picatinny rail systems.
[[Image:Sa80A2-l22a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L22A1 w/20-round magazine and SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}

 

=L86=

==L86A1==
The L86A1 Light Support Weapon is the sustained fire variant of the SA80 series. Many have been replaced by the [[FN Minimi]] in this role or converted into L22 Carbines for AFV/Chopper crew members as a personal defense weapon.

[[Image:SA80-L86A1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[A Sound of Thunder]] || || Apartment Resident || Lacks either iron sights or optics || 2005
|-
|}

===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || || British Army Soldiers || w/various optics, w/ and w/O BFAs || 1991-1997
|-
| [[Red Cap]] || || British Army Soldiers || w/SUSAT optic || 2003-2004
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Fallout 2]] || Light Support Weapon || || Features tan plastics, lengthened barrel || 1998
|-
| [[Modern Warfare 2]] || || w/various modifications|| || 2009
|-
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; {|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Black Lagoon]] || || Seen on wall, with SUSAT scope || 2006
|-
|}

 

==L86A2==
A revamped L86A1 LSW. The L86A2 is in limited usage along the FN Minimi, only for DMR purposes as it has superior accuracy/range. The L86A2 is also used by the ACF but only 3-Star+ Trained Cadets are allowed to use this weapon.
As of 2009/10, futher modifications have been made to L86A2s used in Afghanistan. These have the current foreguards replaced with the DD-quad RAS foreguard (with the ability to add various extras on all surfaces, such as foregrips or flashlights). The outrigger under the barrel can been removed (but bipod retained) or replaced with a RiS/RAS rail system. SUSATs retained, with the intention of replacing them with Elcan Spectre optics. These modifications have only been made to a select few units L86A2 DMRs. Those units not in, or immediately going to Afghanistan have yet to recieve the upgrades.

[[Image:Image-SA80-L86A2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With optional SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}
 

=SA80 Prototypes=
Various prototypes made by Enfield for the British Government, starting in 1969. Various models, earliest using NATO 7.62. However, both of the listed below used the experimental British 4.85mm round. When NATO adopted the US 5.56 round, the XL70 series was redesigned to fire 5.56 and renamed under the SA80 programme - '''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80''''s. This project also included an LSW (although that version had a changeable barrel)
Originally, the weapon had only a SUSAT - which was built in to the rifle, and non-removable - however, there was a folding foresight (visible)

==XL64E5==
[[Image:EnfieldXL64.jpg|thumb|right|400px|XL64E5, 4.85x49mm]]

===Television===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Lewis Collins]]||Bodie||||1977-1983
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Martin Shaw]]||Doyle||||1977-1983
|-
|}
 

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]||Enfield||||||2010
|-
|}

==XL70E3==

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Fallout]]||||||||1997
|-
|[[Fallout 2]]||||||||1998
|-
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Assault Rifle]]
[[Category:Machine Gun]]
[[Category:Bullpup]]
[[Category:Personal Defense Weapon]]

Enfield SA80

2011-02-07T22:13:35Z

Spanner: /* Video Games */

The '''SA80''' ('''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80'''s) is a series of 5.56x45mm bullpup assault rifles and light support weapons designed on the operation of the [[Armalite AR-18]] and SAR-87 (An advanced AR-18 made by the rival company Sterling Armaments of Dagenham), and produced from 1985 to 1994 by the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock.

In 1988 production of the rifle was transferred to the Royal Ordnance’s Nottingham Small Arms Facility (later British Aerospace, Royal Ordnance; now BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions & Ordnance).

'''The SA80 can be seen in the following films, television series, anime and video games used by the following actors:'''

==Specifications==

''(1985-1994)''
*'''Type:''' Assault Rifle
*'''Caliber:''' 5.56x45mm NATO
*'''Capacity:''' 20, 30-round STANAG magazines
*'''Fire Modes:''' repetition (semiautomatic), automatic (safety is NOT a fire mode and is separate to the selector)

=L85=

==L85A1==
The original variant of the SA80 series issued to the British forces. These were manufactured by Royal Ordnance (Formerly known as Enfield) from 1985 until 1994 after the notorious faults of the weapon in battlefield conditions.

[[Image:Sa80-l85a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Aliens]] || || || Seen on gun rack on ''Sulaco'' in extended edition || 1986
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army Guards || With covered SUSAT scopes and bayonets || 1992
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 1992
|-
| [[Police Story 3: Supercop ]] || || Royal Hong Kong police officer || || 1992
|-
| [[The Devil's Own]] || || British Army soldiers || With SUSAT scopes|| 1997
|-
| [[Dog Soldiers]] || || British Army soldiers || With blank-firing adaptors and SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Underworld]] || || || With SUSAT scope, seen on gun rack || 2003
|-
| [[Resident Evil: Extinction]] || [[Linden Ashby]] || Chase || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
| [[Doomsday]] || || British Army Guards || Appear to be old airsoft toys (due to mini Union Flag near butt plate) || 2008
|-
| [[Punisher: War Zone]] || || ||Seen on gun rack || 2009
|-
| [[Kick-Ass]] || || ||Seen on gun rack || 2010
|}
===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Bugs]]/"Stealth" || || || || 1995 - 1999
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || [[Robson Green]] || Dave Tucker|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || ??? || British Army soldiers|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Alliance soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Browncoats || || 2002
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]] || ??? || Honor guards || w/white-painted handguard and lower receiver || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]]/"Resistance", "The Farm" || ??? || Caprica Resistance fighters || w/ SUSAT scopes || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Situation Critical]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2007
|-
| [[Zero Hour]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || || 2004-2007
|-
| [[Caprica]] || ??? ||Caprican police officer || ||2010
|-
| [[Red Cap]] || [[Tamzin Outhwaite]], others || British Army || W/SUSATs or Iron Sights || 2003-4
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || w/ SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas (PSP)]] || || || ||
|-
| [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]] || IL86 || w/optional [[M203 grenade launcher]] and suppressor || Erroneously shown with controls inverted onto the lefthand side || 2007
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film/Series Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Akira]] || Neo Tokyo Police troops || w/SUSAT scopes || 1987
|-
| [[Spriggan]] || British (?) troops || || 1994
|}
 

==L85A2==

The L85A2 is a revamped version of the L85A1 with improved components, most notably the external 'Comma' shaped combined charging handle/brass deflector and stronger internal parts. The upgrading of L85A1 rifles to the L85A2 standard was carried out by Heckler & Koch between 2002 and 2006; since then further improvements have been made in response to operational requirements, including new RIS/RAS equipped foreguards and the adoption of the ACOG sight by some units in Afghanistan. The new foreguards and the adoption of the Elcan Spectre as the official replacement of the SUSAT will be applied to all British Army units over the next three to four years.

[[Image:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sa80-l85a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:L85A2AG36.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 5.56x45mm with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] 40mm]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[28 Days Later]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes, with and without bayonet || 2002
|-
| [[Children of Men]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 2006
|-
| [[Flood]] || || British soldiers || || 2007
|-
|}

===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Sherlock]] / S01E01 - "A Study in Pink" || ??? || British Army soldier || w/SUSAT scope || 2010
|-
| [[Doctor Who (New Series)|Doctor Who]] || ??? || British Army paratroopers || w/and w/out Surefire weaponlights || 2005 - ????
|-
| [[Ultimate Force]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002 - 2006
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; {|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig|Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. 2nd GIG]]||British soldiers||With futuristic furniture, cybernetic sights and underbarrel M203||2004-2005
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || With AG36 grenade launcher || || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With grippod foregrip and optional L17A2 grenade launcher, ACOG or SUSAT scopes || || 2005
|-
| [[Battlefield 2: Modern Combat]] || || w/[[M203 grenade launcher]] || || 2005
|-
| [[Ghost Recon 2]] || SA-80A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2004
|-
| [[Counter-Strike Online]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]] || || w/various optional accessories || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: Confrontation]] || IW-80 A2 || || || 2008
|-
| [[Delta Force: Task Force Dagger]] || Sa-80 A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2002
|-
| [[Contra 4]] || || || || 2007
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || SA80A2 || w/ RIS, SUSAT, EOTech sights; also can be fitted with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] || || 2010
|-
|}
 

=L22=

==L22 Prototype==
Converted from L86A1 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC, RAC and some REME Crew as a personal defence weapon. Often wrongly refered to as the L22A1, this gun was never given an L designation, known only as an SA80 AFV or Armoured Fighting Vehicle.

[[Image:Sa80-l22a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|SA80 AFV prototype with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Killing Floor]] || Bullpup || w/EOTech red dot sight and 40-round magazine || || 2009
|-
|}
 

==L22A1==
Converted from L86A2 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC Crew as a personal defense weapon. Often wrongly labled the L22A2. The L22A1 has the same internal modification as the L85A2 and L86A2, but as the modification were done before the L22 was officially introduced it is designated the L22A1, new upgrades are now available such as the 20rnd magazine and picatinny rail systems.
[[Image:Sa80A2-l22a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L22A1 w/20-round magazine and SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}

 

=L86=

==L86A1==
The L86A1 Light Support Weapon is the sustained fire variant of the SA80 series. Many have been replaced by the [[FN Minimi]] in this role or converted into L22 Carbines for AFV/Chopper crew members as a personal defense weapon.

[[Image:SA80-L86A1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[A Sound of Thunder]] || || Apartment Resident || Lacks either iron sights or optics || 2005
|-
|}

===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || || British Army Soldiers || w/various optics, w/ and w/O BFAs || 1991-1997
|-
| [[Red Cap]] || || British Army Soldiers || w/SUSAT optic || 2003-2004
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Fallout 2]] || Light Support Weapon || || Features tan plastics, lengthened barrel || 1998
|-
| [[Modern Warfare 2]] || || w/various modifications|| || 2009
|-
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; {|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Black Lagoon]] || || Seen on wall, with SUSAT scope || 2006
|-
|}

 

==L86A2==
A revamped L86A1 LSW. The L86A2 is in limited usage along the FN Minimi, only for DMR purposes as it has superior accuracy/range. The L86A2 is also used by the ACF but only 3-Star+ Trained Cadets are allowed to use this weapon.
As of 2009/10, futher modifications have been made to L86A2s used in Afghanistan. These have the current foreguards replaced with the DD-quad RAS foreguard (with the ability to add various extras on all surfaces, such as foregrips or flashlights). The outrigger under the barrel can been removed (but bipod retained) or replaced with a RiS/RAS rail system. SUSATs retained, with the intention of replacing them with Elcan Spectre optics. These modifications have only been made to a select few units L86A2 DMRs. Those units not in, or immediately going to Afghanistan have yet to recieve the upgrades.

[[Image:Image-SA80-L86A2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Fallout 2]] || Light Support Weapon || || || 1998
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With optional SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}
 

=SA80 Prototypes=
Various prototypes made by Enfield for the British Government, starting in 1969. Various models, earliest using NATO 7.62. However, both of the listed below used the experimental British 4.85mm round. When NATO adopted the US 5.56 round, the XL70 series was redesigned to fire 5.56 and renamed under the SA80 programme - '''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80''''s. This project also included an LSW (although that version had a changeable barrel)
Originally, the weapon had only a SUSAT - which was built in to the rifle, and non-removable - however, there was a folding foresight (visible)

==XL64E5==
[[Image:EnfieldXL64.jpg|thumb|right|400px|XL64E5, 4.85x49mm]]

===Television===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Lewis Collins]]||Bodie||||1977-1983
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Martin Shaw]]||Doyle||||1977-1983
|-
|}
 

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]||Enfield||||||2010
|-
|}

==XL70E3==

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Fallout]]||||||||1997
|-
|[[Fallout 2]]||||||||1998
|-
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Assault Rifle]]
[[Category:Machine Gun]]
[[Category:Bullpup]]
[[Category:Personal Defense Weapon]]

Enfield SA80

2011-02-07T22:11:35Z

Spanner: /* L86A1 */

The '''SA80''' ('''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80'''s) is a series of 5.56x45mm bullpup assault rifles and light support weapons designed on the operation of the [[Armalite AR-18]] and SAR-87 (An advanced AR-18 made by the rival company Sterling Armaments of Dagenham), and produced from 1985 to 1994 by the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock.

In 1988 production of the rifle was transferred to the Royal Ordnance’s Nottingham Small Arms Facility (later British Aerospace, Royal Ordnance; now BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions & Ordnance).

'''The SA80 can be seen in the following films, television series, anime and video games used by the following actors:'''

==Specifications==

''(1985-1994)''
*'''Type:''' Assault Rifle
*'''Caliber:''' 5.56x45mm NATO
*'''Capacity:''' 20, 30-round STANAG magazines
*'''Fire Modes:''' repetition (semiautomatic), automatic (safety is NOT a fire mode and is separate to the selector)

=L85=

==L85A1==
The original variant of the SA80 series issued to the British forces. These were manufactured by Royal Ordnance (Formerly known as Enfield) from 1985 until 1994 after the notorious faults of the weapon in battlefield conditions.

[[Image:Sa80-l85a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Aliens]] || || || Seen on gun rack on ''Sulaco'' in extended edition || 1986
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army Guards || With covered SUSAT scopes and bayonets || 1992
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 1992
|-
| [[Police Story 3: Supercop ]] || || Royal Hong Kong police officer || || 1992
|-
| [[The Devil's Own]] || || British Army soldiers || With SUSAT scopes|| 1997
|-
| [[Dog Soldiers]] || || British Army soldiers || With blank-firing adaptors and SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Underworld]] || || || With SUSAT scope, seen on gun rack || 2003
|-
| [[Resident Evil: Extinction]] || [[Linden Ashby]] || Chase || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
| [[Doomsday]] || || British Army Guards || Appear to be old airsoft toys (due to mini Union Flag near butt plate) || 2008
|-
| [[Punisher: War Zone]] || || ||Seen on gun rack || 2009
|-
| [[Kick-Ass]] || || ||Seen on gun rack || 2010
|}
===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Bugs]]/"Stealth" || || || || 1995 - 1999
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || [[Robson Green]] || Dave Tucker|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || ??? || British Army soldiers|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Alliance soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Browncoats || || 2002
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]] || ??? || Honor guards || w/white-painted handguard and lower receiver || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]]/"Resistance", "The Farm" || ??? || Caprica Resistance fighters || w/ SUSAT scopes || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Situation Critical]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2007
|-
| [[Zero Hour]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || || 2004-2007
|-
| [[Caprica]] || ??? ||Caprican police officer || ||2010
|-
| [[Red Cap]] || [[Tamzin Outhwaite]], others || British Army || W/SUSATs or Iron Sights || 2003-4
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || w/ SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas (PSP)]] || || || ||
|-
| [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]] || IL86 || w/optional [[M203 grenade launcher]] and suppressor || Erroneously shown with controls inverted onto the lefthand side || 2007
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film/Series Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Akira]] || Neo Tokyo Police troops || w/SUSAT scopes || 1987
|-
| [[Spriggan]] || British (?) troops || || 1994
|}
 

==L85A2==

The L85A2 is a revamped version of the L85A1 with improved components, most notably the external 'Comma' shaped combined charging handle/brass deflector and stronger internal parts. The upgrading of L85A1 rifles to the L85A2 standard was carried out by Heckler & Koch between 2002 and 2006; since then further improvements have been made in response to operational requirements, including new RIS/RAS equipped foreguards and the adoption of the ACOG sight by some units in Afghanistan. The new foreguards and the adoption of the Elcan Spectre as the official replacement of the SUSAT will be applied to all British Army units over the next three to four years.

[[Image:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sa80-l85a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:L85A2AG36.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 5.56x45mm with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] 40mm]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[28 Days Later]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes, with and without bayonet || 2002
|-
| [[Children of Men]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 2006
|-
| [[Flood]] || || British soldiers || || 2007
|-
|}

===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Sherlock]] / S01E01 - "A Study in Pink" || ??? || British Army soldier || w/SUSAT scope || 2010
|-
| [[Doctor Who (New Series)|Doctor Who]] || ??? || British Army paratroopers || w/and w/out Surefire weaponlights || 2005 - ????
|-
| [[Ultimate Force]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002 - 2006
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; {|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig|Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. 2nd GIG]]||British soldiers||With futuristic furniture, cybernetic sights and underbarrel M203||2004-2005
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || With AG36 grenade launcher || || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With grippod foregrip and optional L17A2 grenade launcher, ACOG or SUSAT scopes || || 2005
|-
| [[Battlefield 2: Modern Combat]] || || w/[[M203 grenade launcher]] || || 2005
|-
| [[Ghost Recon 2]] || SA-80A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2004
|-
| [[Counter-Strike Online]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]] || || w/various optional accessories || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: Confrontation]] || IW-80 A2 || || || 2008
|-
| [[Delta Force: Task Force Dagger]] || Sa-80 A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2002
|-
| [[Contra 4]] || || || || 2007
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || SA80A2 || w/ RIS, SUSAT, EOTech sights; also can be fitted with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] || || 2010
|-
|}
 

=L22=

==L22 Prototype==
Converted from L86A1 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC, RAC and some REME Crew as a personal defence weapon. Often wrongly refered to as the L22A1, this gun was never given an L designation, known only as an SA80 AFV or Armoured Fighting Vehicle.

[[Image:Sa80-l22a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|SA80 AFV prototype with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Killing Floor]] || Bullpup || w/EOTech red dot sight and 40-round magazine || || 2009
|-
|}
 

==L22A1==
Converted from L86A2 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC Crew as a personal defense weapon. Often wrongly labled the L22A2. The L22A1 has the same internal modification as the L85A2 and L86A2, but as the modification were done before the L22 was officially introduced it is designated the L22A1, new upgrades are now available such as the 20rnd magazine and picatinny rail systems.
[[Image:Sa80A2-l22a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L22A1 w/20-round magazine and SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}

 

=L86=

==L86A1==
The L86A1 Light Support Weapon is the sustained fire variant of the SA80 series. Many have been replaced by the [[FN Minimi]] in this role or converted into L22 Carbines for AFV/Chopper crew members as a personal defense weapon.

[[Image:SA80-L86A1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[A Sound of Thunder]] || || Apartment Resident || Lacks either iron sights or optics || 2005
|-
|}

===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || || British Army Soldiers || w/various optics, w/ and w/O BFAs || 1991-1997
|-
| [[Red Cap]] || || British Army Soldiers || w/SUSAT optic || 2003-2004
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Modern Warfare 2]] || || w/red dot sight and SUSAT scope || || 2009
|-
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; {|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Black Lagoon]] || || Seen on wall, with SUSAT scope || 2006
|-
|}

 

==L86A2==
A revamped L86A1 LSW. The L86A2 is in limited usage along the FN Minimi, only for DMR purposes as it has superior accuracy/range. The L86A2 is also used by the ACF but only 3-Star+ Trained Cadets are allowed to use this weapon.
As of 2009/10, futher modifications have been made to L86A2s used in Afghanistan. These have the current foreguards replaced with the DD-quad RAS foreguard (with the ability to add various extras on all surfaces, such as foregrips or flashlights). The outrigger under the barrel can been removed (but bipod retained) or replaced with a RiS/RAS rail system. SUSATs retained, with the intention of replacing them with Elcan Spectre optics. These modifications have only been made to a select few units L86A2 DMRs. Those units not in, or immediately going to Afghanistan have yet to recieve the upgrades.

[[Image:Image-SA80-L86A2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Fallout 2]] || Light Support Weapon || || || 1998
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With optional SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}
 

=SA80 Prototypes=
Various prototypes made by Enfield for the British Government, starting in 1969. Various models, earliest using NATO 7.62. However, both of the listed below used the experimental British 4.85mm round. When NATO adopted the US 5.56 round, the XL70 series was redesigned to fire 5.56 and renamed under the SA80 programme - '''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80''''s. This project also included an LSW (although that version had a changeable barrel)
Originally, the weapon had only a SUSAT - which was built in to the rifle, and non-removable - however, there was a folding foresight (visible)

==XL64E5==
[[Image:EnfieldXL64.jpg|thumb|right|400px|XL64E5, 4.85x49mm]]

===Television===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Lewis Collins]]||Bodie||||1977-1983
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Martin Shaw]]||Doyle||||1977-1983
|-
|}
 

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]||Enfield||||||2010
|-
|}

==XL70E3==

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Fallout]]||||||||1997
|-
|[[Fallout 2]]||||||||1998
|-
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Assault Rifle]]
[[Category:Machine Gun]]
[[Category:Bullpup]]
[[Category:Personal Defense Weapon]]

Enfield SA80

2011-02-07T22:05:24Z

Spanner: /* Television */

The '''SA80''' ('''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80'''s) is a series of 5.56x45mm bullpup assault rifles and light support weapons designed on the operation of the [[Armalite AR-18]] and SAR-87 (An advanced AR-18 made by the rival company Sterling Armaments of Dagenham), and produced from 1985 to 1994 by the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock.

In 1988 production of the rifle was transferred to the Royal Ordnance’s Nottingham Small Arms Facility (later British Aerospace, Royal Ordnance; now BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions & Ordnance).

'''The SA80 can be seen in the following films, television series, anime and video games used by the following actors:'''

==Specifications==

''(1985-1994)''
*'''Type:''' Assault Rifle
*'''Caliber:''' 5.56x45mm NATO
*'''Capacity:''' 20, 30-round STANAG magazines
*'''Fire Modes:''' repetition (semiautomatic), automatic (safety is NOT a fire mode and is separate to the selector)

=L85=

==L85A1==
The original variant of the SA80 series issued to the British forces. These were manufactured by Royal Ordnance (Formerly known as Enfield) from 1985 until 1994 after the notorious faults of the weapon in battlefield conditions.

[[Image:Sa80-l85a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Aliens]] || || || Seen on gun rack on ''Sulaco'' in extended edition || 1986
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army Guards || With covered SUSAT scopes and bayonets || 1992
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 1992
|-
| [[Police Story 3: Supercop ]] || || Royal Hong Kong police officer || || 1992
|-
| [[The Devil's Own]] || || British Army soldiers || With SUSAT scopes|| 1997
|-
| [[Dog Soldiers]] || || British Army soldiers || With blank-firing adaptors and SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Underworld]] || || || With SUSAT scope, seen on gun rack || 2003
|-
| [[Resident Evil: Extinction]] || [[Linden Ashby]] || Chase || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
| [[Doomsday]] || || British Army Guards || Appear to be old airsoft toys (due to mini Union Flag near butt plate) || 2008
|-
| [[Punisher: War Zone]] || || ||Seen on gun rack || 2009
|-
| [[Kick-Ass]] || || ||Seen on gun rack || 2010
|}
===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Bugs]]/"Stealth" || || || || 1995 - 1999
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || [[Robson Green]] || Dave Tucker|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || ??? || British Army soldiers|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Alliance soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Browncoats || || 2002
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]] || ??? || Honor guards || w/white-painted handguard and lower receiver || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]]/"Resistance", "The Farm" || ??? || Caprica Resistance fighters || w/ SUSAT scopes || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Situation Critical]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2007
|-
| [[Zero Hour]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || || 2004-2007
|-
| [[Caprica]] || ??? ||Caprican police officer || ||2010
|-
| [[Red Cap]] || [[Tamzin Outhwaite]], others || British Army || W/SUSATs or Iron Sights || 2003-4
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || w/ SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas (PSP)]] || || || ||
|-
| [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]] || IL86 || w/optional [[M203 grenade launcher]] and suppressor || Erroneously shown with controls inverted onto the lefthand side || 2007
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film/Series Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Akira]] || Neo Tokyo Police troops || w/SUSAT scopes || 1987
|-
| [[Spriggan]] || British (?) troops || || 1994
|}
 

==L85A2==

The L85A2 is a revamped version of the L85A1 with improved components, most notably the external 'Comma' shaped combined charging handle/brass deflector and stronger internal parts. The upgrading of L85A1 rifles to the L85A2 standard was carried out by Heckler & Koch between 2002 and 2006; since then further improvements have been made in response to operational requirements, including new RIS/RAS equipped foreguards and the adoption of the ACOG sight by some units in Afghanistan. The new foreguards and the adoption of the Elcan Spectre as the official replacement of the SUSAT will be applied to all British Army units over the next three to four years.

[[Image:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sa80-l85a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:L85A2AG36.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 5.56x45mm with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] 40mm]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[28 Days Later]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes, with and without bayonet || 2002
|-
| [[Children of Men]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 2006
|-
| [[Flood]] || || British soldiers || || 2007
|-
|}

===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Sherlock]] / S01E01 - "A Study in Pink" || ??? || British Army soldier || w/SUSAT scope || 2010
|-
| [[Doctor Who (New Series)|Doctor Who]] || ??? || British Army paratroopers || w/and w/out Surefire weaponlights || 2005 - ????
|-
| [[Ultimate Force]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002 - 2006
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; {|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig|Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. 2nd GIG]]||British soldiers||With futuristic furniture, cybernetic sights and underbarrel M203||2004-2005
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || With AG36 grenade launcher || || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With grippod foregrip and optional L17A2 grenade launcher, ACOG or SUSAT scopes || || 2005
|-
| [[Battlefield 2: Modern Combat]] || || w/[[M203 grenade launcher]] || || 2005
|-
| [[Ghost Recon 2]] || SA-80A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2004
|-
| [[Counter-Strike Online]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]] || || w/various optional accessories || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: Confrontation]] || IW-80 A2 || || || 2008
|-
| [[Delta Force: Task Force Dagger]] || Sa-80 A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2002
|-
| [[Contra 4]] || || || || 2007
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || SA80A2 || w/ RIS, SUSAT, EOTech sights; also can be fitted with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] || || 2010
|-
|}
 

=L22=

==L22 Prototype==
Converted from L86A1 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC, RAC and some REME Crew as a personal defence weapon. Often wrongly refered to as the L22A1, this gun was never given an L designation, known only as an SA80 AFV or Armoured Fighting Vehicle.

[[Image:Sa80-l22a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|SA80 AFV prototype with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Killing Floor]] || Bullpup || w/EOTech red dot sight and 40-round magazine || || 2009
|-
|}
 

==L22A1==
Converted from L86A2 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC Crew as a personal defense weapon. Often wrongly labled the L22A2. The L22A1 has the same internal modification as the L85A2 and L86A2, but as the modification were done before the L22 was officially introduced it is designated the L22A1, new upgrades are now available such as the 20rnd magazine and picatinny rail systems.
[[Image:Sa80A2-l22a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L22A1 w/20-round magazine and SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}

 

=L86=

==L86A1==
The L86A1 Light Support Weapon is the sustained fire variant of the SA80 series. Many have been replaced by the [[FN Minimi]] in this role or converted into L22 Carbines for AFV/Chopper crew members as a personal defense weapon.

[[Image:SA80-L86A1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[A Sound of Thunder]] || || Apartment Resident || Lacks either iron sights or optics || 2005
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Modern Warfare 2]] || || w/red dot sight and SUSAT scope || || 2009
|-
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; {|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Black Lagoon]] || || Seen on wall, with SUSAT scope || 2006
|-
|}

 

==L86A2==
A revamped L86A1 LSW. The L86A2 is in limited usage along the FN Minimi, only for DMR purposes as it has superior accuracy/range. The L86A2 is also used by the ACF but only 3-Star+ Trained Cadets are allowed to use this weapon.
As of 2009/10, futher modifications have been made to L86A2s used in Afghanistan. These have the current foreguards replaced with the DD-quad RAS foreguard (with the ability to add various extras on all surfaces, such as foregrips or flashlights). The outrigger under the barrel can been removed (but bipod retained) or replaced with a RiS/RAS rail system. SUSATs retained, with the intention of replacing them with Elcan Spectre optics. These modifications have only been made to a select few units L86A2 DMRs. Those units not in, or immediately going to Afghanistan have yet to recieve the upgrades.

[[Image:Image-SA80-L86A2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Fallout 2]] || Light Support Weapon || || || 1998
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With optional SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}
 

=SA80 Prototypes=
Various prototypes made by Enfield for the British Government, starting in 1969. Various models, earliest using NATO 7.62. However, both of the listed below used the experimental British 4.85mm round. When NATO adopted the US 5.56 round, the XL70 series was redesigned to fire 5.56 and renamed under the SA80 programme - '''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80''''s. This project also included an LSW (although that version had a changeable barrel)
Originally, the weapon had only a SUSAT - which was built in to the rifle, and non-removable - however, there was a folding foresight (visible)

==XL64E5==
[[Image:EnfieldXL64.jpg|thumb|right|400px|XL64E5, 4.85x49mm]]

===Television===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Lewis Collins]]||Bodie||||1977-1983
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Martin Shaw]]||Doyle||||1977-1983
|-
|}
 

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]||Enfield||||||2010
|-
|}

==XL70E3==

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Fallout]]||||||||1997
|-
|[[Fallout 2]]||||||||1998
|-
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Assault Rifle]]
[[Category:Machine Gun]]
[[Category:Bullpup]]
[[Category:Personal Defense Weapon]]

Combat Arms

2011-01-08T12:20:48Z

Spanner: /* Lee Enfield L85A1 */

Talk:Dog Soldiers

2010-12-30T16:27:02Z

Spanner:

==Finally finished==
Now it's all completely screencapped, how does everything look? I know some of the pictures aren't the best quality, so if there's any you think should be removed, please let me know beforehand. [[User:Death|Death]]
::Why did you remove some of the previous pics that were of superior quality? Rule No 1 for IMFDB, best pics stay, regardless of who puts them on the page. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:26, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Its great how you added more photos but some are pretty dark and hard to see. One thing I would think about doing is really trying to limit the spoliers in the page. Im not sure if your wrote them all or not, but there is a real lot present in the decriptions and captions. Things such as "''Later in the film it is used by Megan (Emma Cleasby) after Joe is killed. Cooper finally uses it to kill Captain Ryan in his werewolf form.''" Can be redone to not give out so much info. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 05:49, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
:::I concur. That kind of Spoilers is specifically against IMFDB rules. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:42, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
::::Sure thing, I can change them up, I just wanted to show how it was used by other characters that's all, and the reason or removal of the other images is because a lot of them seemed to be just google images, not actual screencaps. My apologies, I wasn't aware of that rule. [[User:Death|Death]]

==A few little things.==
How does it look? I'm not completely finished with this page yet, there's a few more images and info I want to add and to add the stun grenade used, hopefully I can get some help identifying it. And also, I feel that some of the dialogue in this film would make nice quotes for the main page, such as "''Well we might have pissed on our chips. We've only got two full mags for the MP5's, six rounds for the shotgun and one spare, just in case.''.." Anyone else? [[User:Death|Death]] 01:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

:It looks great, much more complete! As for the Main Page quote, it might be OK, though it's not so "self-explanatory" as some of the others we usually put. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:31, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

::Thanks, I had to do this film justice, it's one of my favourites. And what exactly do you mean by "self explanatory"? I always thought you just took cool quotes relating to guns. [[User:Death|Death]] 01:36, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

:::They have to make sense to people who aren't 100% familiar with the film. So what's the deal with the "Pissed on our chips" quote? What's so exceptional about that sentence? Just curious since it just seems banal, thats all. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:28, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I think we should add a quote from Sgt. Wells "We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the bitch." But that's up to yall.

Other than that good job on the page, Ive been waiting for someone to do this one justice.

--[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree, that's a pretty funny quote, and thanks, but I can't help but think I may have overdone the images a little. [[User:Death|Death]]

==SR9(T)==

[[Image:Dog soldiers sr905.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Terry surverys the area with the SR9(T).]]
[[Image:Dog soldiers sr906.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Terry fires at the werewolves.]]

Can anyone explain to me how this gun is an SR9(T)? It looks to me like a regular G3A3 with its flash hider removed. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

I thought it might've been a regular G3 myself (also look at the grip), but it was listed as a SR9(T) before I started work, so I left it as it was. Since I'm not the only one who thinks so, I'll list it as a G3A3 for now unless proved otherwise. [[User:Death|Death]]

:I think whoever wrote that it's an SR9 was mistaken. It's definitely a G3A3. They even referred to it as a G3 during the commentary. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:17, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

::Excellent, so we were right. It's good to see members of a film crew who actually know what weapons they're dealing with. [[User:Death|Death]]

:::Both of you need your eyes examined. LOL That is NOT a standard G3 barrel. It's too long and it is a tapered barrel like the SR9. Also check out the rear sight and the thing that looks like an integral brass deflector behind the ejection port. Regular G3A3 my butt. ;) It has been modified to resemble a sniper variant. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:11, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

== Kevin McKidd ==

I'm sure others have noticed but Kevin McKidd who plays Pvt. Cooper in the movie also did the voice for "Soap" MacTavish in Moderen Warfare 2 and Jezz Torrent in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.

== Stun Grenade ID ==

I think the stun grenade used is probably actually a smoke grenade. From the looks of it I think it is a L84 screening grenade, with a bit of tape wrapped around the middle to hide the text saying "GRENADE HAND SMOKE SCREENING". Unfortunately the only photo I can find of one right now is pretty lousy, so can't do a good comparison:

http://www.kmnw.co.uk/store/images/tiberius/SMOKE.jpg (Obviously, the one standing upright)

As this was a British film, I assume it would be a Brit grenade, and as it has a ridge at the top of the side, this shows it to be a screening variety rather than a signalling type which has a rounded edge. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 20:18, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

== Scopes ==

There is a continual error in the scene where sgt wells has his guts ripped out. i believe there are two different scopes on the two scoped mp5s. the first looks like a regular cross-hair scope, whilst the other has a battery compartment on the left hand side. during that scene sgt wells continually switches between the two. any help confirming this or identifying the scopes would be a great help? anon

==Sequel==
:Wasn't there supposed to be a sequel coming out a few years ago? I saw a few ads for it and then never heard about it again-
[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 17:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

=='Springer' SA80s? ==
I see someone has posted this comment under one of the screen caps. Is this an airsoft/springer? I take the point that the bolt-release catch is upside down, but a screw in the cocking handle doesn't mean it's not real - I've seen one or two 'DIY' cocking handles for A1 SA80s (as the cocking handles could, and did break off) so a screw in that place, to me, doesn't make it a fake. Willing to be corrected though.
Also - are the others airsoft props too? They all seem to have the bolt-relase catch the correct way around. Real or springers?
[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2010-12-01T19:49:27Z

Spanner: /* What kind of tank was that? */

==OTHER==
That's Norman Reedus with the crossbow. He plays Daryl Dixon, who was not in the actual comic that I can recall. I like that though, he's a cool actor. I'm also a little bummed that they didn't use the guns drawn in the comics. Rick uses a HK mk.23. For those of you who might think that it's impossible to tell that from the comic the artist wrote HK MK.23 on the barrel. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I read some where that the Walker are attracted to loud noises. that might be why he is carrying a crossbow

It is smart to use a crossbow; because it saves on bullets and in most all undead literature and movies the undead always react and swarm when they hear a gunshot. Very good show, have never read the comic but look forward to.-GoshMr.Peabody

It's pretty amazing. I recommend buying the trade paperbacks. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

==Whoa==
I loved the comic, when the hell did it get a tv show?

The idea was revealed a while ago. It comes out on Halloween. -SasquatchJim

honestly , its like two hours till the show ,i cant wait. simmons 8492

Well it kept my interest. I'll watch it again next week to see if it can maintain the momentum.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

honestly it took some time to realy get things going , but now hes in a populated zone with other survivers . and if i was him id start that tank up! simmons 8492

I coulda sworn the 50 on that tank was still loaded with ammo and in the next scene, it had no ammo [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Just watched it again. The .50 on the tank doesn't appear to be loaded, but there's another one in a sandbag fort that is, in the foreground as he goes by. -IGemini 04:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

== Crappy dialogue ==

In the trailer, one of the cops told the other to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off. First off, the man he was talking to, had a Glock, so no safety. And since he's a trained cop, ready to open fire on a suspect that's hostile, why wouldn't he have a round in the chamber and his gun ready to go? That line just threw me off [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, just watched it. Its brilliant, easily as good as the comic. The 'crappy dialogue above does jar a little tho. Hes telling him to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off as it is implied the officer in question is a bit useless, however after doing a brass check the officer in question then presses down on the slide release (even tho the slide is forward) as if to pretend it is the saftey catch. Morgan has a 5 shot snub revolver (which someone else will have to identify as im not too good with em). Rick pull a 92fs (standing in for an m9) from a dead soldiers shoulder holster at the end of the episode, and i'm fairly sure the SIG is a tutone P228 or 229 not a P239 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

The funny thing about the thing with the safety is that you can hear the sound of a safety being click off.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 04:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the dialogue was written long before it was decided the cop would be holding a Glock(unless the writer is Michael Mann). So maybe the round in the chamber thing may have been unwarranted, but maybe he was a rookie, he did seem sort of skittish. Regardless, it's unfair to call ''that'' crappy dialogue. I think you're letting your knowledge of guns get in the way of enjoying good stories.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 04:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dont know if its worth noting, but the cop he tells that too, is actually, the first zombie he ends up shooting, after leaving the police station. Rick commented he was careless and dumb, so reminding him, makes sense.

And, of course, Rick committed a cardinal sin; he referred to a magazine as a clip :P -SasquatchJim

I'm not surprised, Sasqatch. The cop I talked to called his Glock 17 a "Glock 9". I'm sure he would have said clip to. Not all cops are into guns. Haha

==SIG P239==

[[Image:WalkingDead-SIGP239.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A chase suspect emerges from the wrecked car firing a two-tone SIG P239 at police.]]

This doesn't look like a P239 to me; more like a P226 or P228. It's too big, and it has nickel controls (which the two-tone P239s don't have). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:P228 because of the slide length. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Remember, on low resolution screencaps like the ones I had to use, feel free to correct the Gun IDs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::: Watching the scene I agree that it is somewhat larger. Sounds fine to me - I'll change it. The first episode was pretty good. I'm adding a Beretta 92FS (M9) entry - Grimes indeed takes one off a 'dead' soldier inside the Abrams tank he gets into, as noted by the above section. Also, I never did get a good glance at the snub revolver, though I'm fairly certain it's a S&W. They're replaying the show so I'll keep an eye for it, and some of the other guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

==Spoiler Comment and Morgan's Revolver==
Its nice to see the page updated but arn't some of the descriptions (mainly the colt python) a bit spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched it yet? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Whoa, yes they are, I sure as hell didn't add those. :b I'll reword them somewhat. Also! The revolver Morgan uses is a Snub S&W Model 66, I can almost guarantee it. Bah, wish I could get screencaps. Still, I'll add that as well. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure its a 66? I remember it having a 5 round cylinder --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I grabbed this off my skyplus box so sorry bout the quality [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2i700fm.jpg[/IMG] Any use, its definatly a 5 shot--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: I could have ''sworn'' it was a S&W. But it's definitely not a Model 66, since there's no rear adj. sights, nor of course a 6-shot cylinder. But Smith snubbie J-frames (5-shot) all have flat 'bull-nose' ejector rod shrouds, not curved. Bah, now I'm kinda stumped. My best guess at this point would probably be a [[Ruger SP101]]. Convert that image there to JPG and upload it on the site. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Looks like it could also be either the [[Taurus Model 617]] or possibly a stainless steel [[Taurus Model 85]]. Biu it is difficult.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

From the barrel it looks like an early Taurus Model 85 in stainless or nickel plated. It was a five shot cylinder definitely.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: After posting I did consider it being a Taurus, many of them are awfully S&W looking to begin with. I doubt it's a 617 but it easily could be an 85. Hell, could be anything for all I know at this point. I guess it'll just be another 'unidentified' until we get more/better screencaps. I'll modify the S&W 66 entry I posted and just call it un-ID'd snub revolver, noting the 5-shot capacity and stating the possible choices. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain it is actually a Ruger SP101, two inch model. No other snubbie, as far as I know, has the upper rear of the frame shaped into a rear sight notch like the SP101, as both of those Taurus models just lack rear sights - you can check the Taurus website as both models lack a "rear sight" category under specifications. Also, if you check out the behind the scenes vid [http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/?bclid=625294007001&bcpid=111717822001&bctid=628200502001 here], there is a pretty decent side shot of the revolver. The general shape is very close to a SP101, and even from the front, the lines on Morgan's triggerguard and barrel are cut much closer semi-melted look on the SP than the very sharp ones on a Taurus oR S&W.

All said, the easiest way to tell would be if they showed the damned cylinder release at some point. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 07:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC) (Corrected typo --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 02:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

Judging by the screens uploaded I'd say definately not a 617, 617 is a 7-shot, also can't see a ported barrel. Still think it's a Taurus though. [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 09:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of tank was that? ==

Its oviously a stand-in for an M-1 but I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking possibly a Chieftain, but I'm not sure. Also, note that a real M-1 woulnd't have worked for the scene since it lacks the floor escape hatch.

-AC.

At this point I'm not sure, but I do suspect it's the same tank that shows up in ''[[Zombieland]]''. Both shows are filmed in Georgia and the voice-over commentary on ''Zombieland'' states that the tank is owned by a private collector.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Definately a Chieftain.

: I concur, Chieftains are often used (mocked-up) as stand-ins for Abrams tanks. I also noticed the bottom escape hatch, which as far as I can recall, indeed isn't on an actual Abrams. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

''Other comments posted on main page-''

(Perhaps it is just me, but the Abrams featured in this appears to be a mocked up British Chieftain Tank, I didn't get a good look at the tank but it didn't seem to be a genuine Abrams, although it could simply be an older pattern M1 without the TUSK upgrade, reactive armor and the more apparent loaders hatch. Yet that would not explain the escape hatch.- Doc345)

Older M1s didn't look that diffrent, from the later ones, aside from the most recent upgardes.

Also, the angle of the frontal turret armor is wrong to be an M1.

I think this may be the same tank which appeared in, among other series, Jericho. The vehicle, if I remember correctly, is built on an old Centurion chasis to resemble an Abrams with some obvious differences. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On a random note, where was a Striker seen in the episode? It says on the page that there was one with a fifty cal on it, but aside from the tank, the only other military vehicles I saw where some HMMWVs, what looked like a deuce, and a half, and some abandone Hueys.

Intrestingly, in the trailor, the one Rick first sees after leaving the hospital lacked a rotor blade making me think it was edited in post-production. Also, the one off to Ricks left appears to still be lacking one.

-AC

at the begging seen when the main cerictor walkes out of the hospital he sees a ebandoned military equpent you can see a Stryker IFV --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
heres a picture
[[Image:The walking dead.png]]

I can say without a doubt that the 'M1' ''is'' a Chieftain, not a Centurion. The long sloping frontal 'nose' armour, the front idler wheel and the lockers/storage bins are features of the Chieftain, not the Centurion. Not too sure about the 'escape hatch' though. I wonder if this is the same 'M1' that appears in the 2010 remake of Red Dawn? It looks the same to me. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Things I noticed ==

Did anybody else notice that when Morgan cocked the hammer back on his gun and threatened to shoot Grimes if he didn't talk, the cylinder didn't advance to the next chamber like it should?

And what about Grimes' personal arsenal in his backpack? Is it safe to assume that rubber/resin mockups? He was getting bounced pretty hard by that horse and the guns kept bumping him in the back. That's at least 40 pounds of gear to be carrying around.

More than safe to assume that. Most of them even appeared to have solid barrels. Probably rubber.--[[Special:Contributions/99.48.50.70|99.48.50.70]] 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The cylinder did rotate, I remembered that happening when I watched the scene. As far as the bag -o- guns, I have no idea. If they were all rubber, they were modeled after some hard to find shotgun configurations and looked very real. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 20:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Grimes in episode 3 his duffle bag was holding six shotguns, two "high powered" rifles, a dozen handguns, and 700 rounds of assorted ammo. That's easily 80-90 pounds of gear. There's no way Grimes could be carrying that around in one hand with a gas can in the other. Or getting bucked and having the bag sag to the side and the stuff not come falling out.

Did anybody else notice that Dale seemed to switch between carrying a rifle with a sling, to carrying one without a sling between scenes?

== I rewatched the first episode. ==

Two of the Sheriffs deputys from the neighboring county had shotguns. One looked like and 870 Remington. The other looked like a Mossberg.

The gun used to shoot Rick, I'm pretty sure was either 1911, or a Glock. It seemed to have an extended slide.

-AC

:: I noticed the shotguns too but it was hard to get a decent look at them, mainly the second one (Mossberg I guess). I will concur at least one of the other shotguns was indeed a standard 870. No idea what the pistol is/was. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Almost positive the other two deputys, from the neighboring county had Glocks, like the other deputys from Ricks department.

You can see one of the shotguns fairly well, after Rick gots shot, one of the two deputys joins Shane in trying to help Rick. Like Shane, he drops his gun, and it can be seen fairly well.

Looking at the pick on here, I'm more positive than ever that the last gunmans weapon was a 1911.
Good eye on my part, since it was litreally visible for like less than a second.-AC.

==Andrea's gun==
I believe Andrea is packing a Smith and Wesson 3913 Ladysmith [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I concur. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Here's a good picture. http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-2-rick-andrea.php
[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:: I also agree about it being a 3913 Ladysmith. We also saw a M67 'baseball' grenade in this latest episode (actually the training version, you could still spot some blue paint on it). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of rifle did Meryl have? ==

Looked like possibly a Model 70, but I'm bad at identifing bolt actions.
-AC

Seriously, does anyone know what kind of rifle he had?-AC

Compare the bolt heads (or whatever the end of the bolt closest to the butt is called); the Remington 700 seems to have more of a protruding portion, while the Mod. 70 is tucked in and more square-like.

At least, that's what it seems like. There used to be a generic page for comparing Bolt-Action Rifles, like the shotguns have now. Where did that page go?

Here it is.

[[Bolt Action Rifles - Most common Sporting Models|Scoped Bolt Action Hunting Rifles]]. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

==Shane's Pistol==
Can anyone identify the pistol Shane is carrying? It looks like either a Glock or possibly a Sig Pro. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Probally a Gock. There very common cop guns, in both hollywood, and real life. Also, severael of the cops, at opening shootout had them, so evedently the prophouse they went to had some.
-AC

Definitely a Glock. Although it's only shown briefly, it looks like a 17. He carries it in a thumb break holster.

Picture of him holding it: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-4-carl-lori-shane-morales.php

After looking at the screenshot on the main page, can anyone identify the holster?

==Merle==

It's Merle not Maryl or Marle

==Guts==
I really like how Rick actually checks the dead soldier's vest for more ammo instead of just taking the weapon like every other film. I also like how when his Beretta runs dry he doesn't toss it away like some generic action hero but he keeps it and stows it in Glenn's backpack. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was good stuff. Have yet to see the Beretta again though. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:Did you also notice that his [[Colt Python]] is still in his hoslter even though he ran out of ammo for it? I liked that touch as well. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

You never know what you might find ammo for at a latter date.-AC
::Which he does in the third episode. Anyway Python's are too expensive to be tossing away on a whim. Even after the Zombie Apocalypse has happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If I recall right they've been outta production since the late 90s.

::The last Python was manufactured approximately six years ago. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Still outta production than. If I recall right, for a while it was outta generael production, but could be special ordered.

Yes the last five or six years it had to be ordered through the custom shop.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The Python, and The Anaconda, where the best revolvers Colt made since the SAA imho-AC

IMO, the Official Police and Detective Special should be included as well. -SasquatchJim

Too bad that still fully loaded .50 next to the tank is too heavy to take back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If he can walk and ride a horse with a 90lb bag on his back like its nothing, he could carry a M2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And he brought buddies with him to GET that bag he left behind. They can lug around an M2 with ammo. Sure it doesn't look like there's any extra, but it's an M2 with AMMO! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But honestly, what would be the purpose, in this story? I mean, they're already getting guns and ammo, and it's not like you need a lot of penetration to kill a zombie, so they don't really need a .50 caliber machinegun. All it would really do was kill a couple of zombies while making a shitload of noise, attracting every zombie in a mile radius. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

: I bet one would've come in handy on top of the camper during the attack on the camp. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::Possibly (I posted that before I saw that episode, sorry.), though I doubt any of them have any training or even any practice with military grade machine guns, and so I'm betting that during the chaos of the attack, they would have killed more of their own people. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

==Vatos==
Ok, tonight I think I've seen a S&W model 10, a Colt Detective Special, and possibly a S&W mosel 28 in the hands of the mexican gangsters and it looks like T-Dog was using a BAR. The bag had some Sigs and Glocks and Daryl had a Remington 870 and I think that Rick is using a Mossberg 590 not a 500. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't edit the page tonight, I just wrote on here. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Daryl took at least one Sig from the bag. T-Dog used a Mossberg later, but I think his scoped rifle was a BAR. The shotty Glenn ended up with, looked the same as Daryl's. Also, Shane drew his pistol at one point, but it was hard to see.-AC
==Daryl's Crossbow==
Daryl Dixon's crossbow is a Horton Scout HD 125: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2817217&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch. In the fourth episode "Vatos", when Daryl points it a T-dog on the roof you can see the faded Horton logo on the front. Scout 125 can be seen above the trigger after the camera angle changes.

::Picture added and changes made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Was that an XD? ==

The handgun, that Daryl takes from the bag of guns. At first I thought it was a SIG, but after rewatching it, I think it may have been a Springfield Army XD.
-AC

Nope, definitely a bi-tone Sig of some kind.

Yeah, the XDs don't have all that stuff on the side of the gun and the slide is actually more Glock like than the more rounder Sig slides [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Walkingdeadsig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rick Grimes ([[Andrew Lincoln]]) inspects a bi-tone Sig Sauer handgun from his bag of guns.]]

- ZeoRanger5 17:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that looks like a SIG-sauer P226 or P228. simmons 8492

I agree with simmons 8492, i'd say p228 myself.

How did you think that was an XD?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 14:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. When I stuck it in his waistband, it looked like a combination between a Sig, and a Glock. As far as handguns go, I'd say the XD is closest to that description. Course I was rather sleep deprived at the time.-AC

==Faking recoil==

Its a littlle overdone but nice to see it (a HP in 9mm doesnt kick as much as shown, but its better than most shows, and handling is pretty good or tv.

==DShK heavy machine gun?==

I believe there was an abandoned DShK heavy machine gun flanked by sandbags when they headed towards the CDC building by the looks of the muzzle. (This was the best episode so far, I think.) - Angel_956

Most likely a mocked up M2 but I definatly saw that distinct muzzle brake.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I added a cap but you cannot really tell one way or another if it is a mock up or not. Either way...it makes no sense for it to be there in the first place!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why would an outdated Soviet Union machine gun even be in the show, but it might be cleared up in the next episode. I clearly remember the guy in the CDC building saying something about some French soilders, I think. If so it might of meant that there was an international response to the zombie outbreak, trying to control it, explaining the DShK. [[User:Angel_956|Angel_956]]

:Now your just over-analyzing, it's in all likeliness what they used because it's what was available to use when they were shooting the scene. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Weird though, since they oviously had M2s available for filming.-AC

:Not necessarily. Armorers can change during filming and weapons may not be available even though they were previously. Also remember that only the first episode had the M2 so the armorer could have changed since then. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

== Daryl's knife ==

In the third episode, when Daryl is told about his brother, he attacks Rick with some sort of hunting or combat knife. He's later seen with it in a sheath on his left thigh, and you get a fairly close (But very brief) look at it when they're walking through the building at the beginning of the forth episode. Anyone have any clue what it is? I mean, from the brief glimpse I got of it in the forth episode, it looked like it was possibly a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C, the same kind of knife that the character Royce had sheathed in Predators, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm, or give an alternative? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of gun did he give Morales? ==

He said it was a .357, but I have no idea what it was.-AC

/AUA

He held it in his hand for a profile shot; maybe you should try screencapping it at that point and going from there. There should be an ID for it though, unlike Morgan's snubnose.

AUA/

== Rick's second shotgun.==

After Rick gives the 590 (it wasn't a 500, someone should change that) to Guillermo, he uses one with an 18 inch barrel, a blued type finish and wood furniture. I think some people commented on it being a Mossberg, but it has a rounded bolt like a Remington 870. However, it's not an 870 since the trigger guard isn't round enough, the magazine tube is longer than the standard 4 shot tube, and it doesn't have an extension attached, and the wood furniture has a single rib on the side for gripping. After doing some research, my best guess is that it's an earlier H&R Pardner Pump, possibly in some sort of police configuration. I know it's neither a Mossberg or a Remington, though.

/AUA

I'd PrtScn/screencap the shotgun in question before making any comparisons. We still haven't definitively IDed Dale's bolt-action, so maybe you should get one of that as well.

AUA/

We still have Merles bolt-action as well.
-AC

==Think its funny==

Rick misses several close range shots (so do long gun toting officers) in the beginning against chase suspects, then later in series hes nailing headshots left and right....

Noticed that too, although zombies don't shoot back. They just charge straight ahead.

/AUA

It's a screenplay-direction thing. The show is already a bit overdramatized in general, so little things like the 'clip' and 'safety' dialogue or the headshot ratio aren't really all that important to the screenwriters, at least not compared with inserting dramatic bits into it.

AUA/

==Question about Shane's shotgun technique==
Just a question for those who may know, is it considered proper technique to hold the gun that high on the shoulder, with his cheek resting on the receiver? I figuered it was an adjustmant made due to the M4-style stock, as Rick and other survivors wielding unmodified weapons don't do this.

: I noticed that too, I figured it was just the actor's preference (possibly due to inexperience) but I guess it could be because of the M4 stock. I dunno. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-11-19T15:39:57Z

Spanner: /* L64 Service? */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the orrigional L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defence force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visist.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got alot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's alot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. One of the main 'design flaws' that 'experts' commented on at the time was the lack of a 7.62 round and how the SA80 was fully automatic. Do you know what squaddies were doing in the Falklands War to get their 7.62 SLRs to fire in full (well, burst)? Sticking match sticks in the chamber. Half the 'experts' complaints against the SA80 are old traditionalists who want the British Army to go back to 'ye olde glory days' of the 'mad minuite' with Lee-Enfields. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight. As the last line from ARRSE says, "the nice new versions aren't that bad, really. However, johnny squaddie is likely to always miss the nice destructive power that the SLR gave him, and so the whingeing will continue for a long time"
:The guys in the Falklands were getting full auto FAL's by using captured Argentinian gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 11:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
::Never seen, heard or read anything suggesting they used any captured rifles - where'd you find that out? I've only ever seen the '3 match trick' used by the British forces in the Falklands campaign, but I suppose some units may have 'borrowed' the Argentinian rifles. That the SA80 comes as standard with full-auto as an option is good in my books. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== L22A2 ==

Just a small niggle, but contrary to what the article currently says, the current issue SA80 carbine is the L22A2. The confusion comes from the fact that the L22A1 version was made but never widely issued, if at all, and I believe that this version is what is labelled as the L22 prototype in the article. I'm not sure if the original version was designated as the L22A1 at the time or whether this is a backronym, but current official MOD documents refer to the current version as "CARBINE, 5.56, L22A2", and this is backed up by the Light Weapons group at the UK's Defence Academy at Watchfield, who claim to have possibly the last remaining L22A1. Does anyone know something I don't meaning it shouldn't be changed? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

== L64 Service? ==

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the Wikipedia article was that the XL64 actually ''saw service'' with the Brits from the 1960s to 1980s. Is this true, or am I just mis-interpreting things?[[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 05:25, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
To my knowledge during that time it was L1A1's and M16 types, as the rifles for squadies, and other weapons for support troops, MGs, Snipers and the like.

Most likely limited service for field testing. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::The information surrounding this is difficult to find, and conflicting at best. Different books say different things, and hell, the British Army's technical museum (REME) and the ordanance museum (RA) say different things. The (X)L64 (and XL65 LSW)did see field testing in the very late 60's to mid 70's (around '78 the 5.56mm XL70- series arrived). There are a handful of photos showing this. Did it see ''combat'' service? Well, a handful of sources have suggested that the Royal Marines/SBS used the L64 and XL70 in the Falklands - however, I have yet to see proof that they did. The XL70E3 did see service in Northern Ireland. The M16 only saw service with one unit at the time IRRC, - the Paras, in Northern Ireland - the date for the photos I have been shown is 1982 - the M16 never saw mass use in the British forces. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Soldier Soldier (TV series)

2010-10-31T08:38:58Z

Spanner:

Just started a major revamp of this page as it was a bit lean. Will look a bit sorry for itself for a few days though. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 23:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

::You've done an excellent job so far, however there is a few minor error. The series has the Challenger 1, not Challenger 2 MBT - the CR1 doesn't have the L94a1 chaingun that the Warrior does (the Challenger 2 does however) The CR1 uses the L37A2 7.62mm coaxial machine gun - a variant of the L7 GPMG. Also, the L7/M240 GPMG is also used on the CR1 as the commander's external/AA defence machine gun (although the vehicle mounted variant is the L8A2 if memory serves me correctly) Other than that, the article looks pretty good to me [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

:::Thanks, have added in a pic of the L37 in the L7 section (took a while to find one, most don't seem to have it mounted in the series) and fixed the L94 section to remove the Chally 1. Think Iwill leave out the L8A2 though, unless I find an episode when it is actually used. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 20:14, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

On another topic, can someone confirm for me whether my guess that the AK-47 looking rifle is actually an R4 is correct as I am by no means an expert on these kinds of rifles.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 20:14, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

::RE:AK/R4 - I'd say you are correct in that it is not a 'real' AK-47, and it does indeed look very similar to the R4, albeit with wooden parts on it (but, like yourself, I am not an AK expert) It does appear to be missing part of the R4 - the metal 'lump' infront of the charging handle but behind the foreguard (visible on the R4 display pic, but not the 'AK')

:::If you are talking about the lump on the underside in front of the magazine, that is just the feet of the folding bipod, which is removeable.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:01, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
::::No, Its the 'thing' on the top of the reciever - it is directly above the indentation in the magwell. It's visible on the actual R4s, but not the 'AK'.
:::::Or, on second thoughts, it probably is just the charging handle of the R4 - it just isn't present on the screen cap.
On the Chally, you've mixed them up - the L37 is the coax MG (not visible in shot), the L8 is the commanders pintle mount (visible in shot). Both are used in an episode (training), along with the CRARRV's L8A2, but I cannot remember the episodes (it was from the Robson Green era of the show) --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:Am pretty sure I am correct. L8A1 is for internal coaxial mounting and barrel has fume extractor, trigger is a solenoid and there is only a folding emergency pistol grip. L37A1 is for pintle mounting and uses the breech of the L8A1, but mates it with a conventional L7A1 barrel and uses a regular pistol grip and trigger.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 21:58, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
::I'll be honest, I'm getting my info from 3 text books and a magazine article on the L7 GPMG in service - all three suggest L37 is the coax - but I'll admit the Chally 1 is not my main topic (a little bit before my time, Chally 2 however isn't - but that has a bog standard L7 and L94A2) I'm happy for you to leave it the way it is, as I think you've probably gotten it correct.--[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Unknown artillery gun - to me, that looks like the second world war British 6pdr AT gun (57mm)--[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Soldier Soldier (TV series)

2010-10-30T06:06:16Z

Spanner:

Talk:Soldier Soldier (TV series)

2010-10-30T06:02:15Z

Spanner:

Just started a major revamp of this page as it was a bit lean. Will look a bit sorry for itself for a few days though. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 23:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

::You've done an excellent job so far, however there is a few minor error. The series has the Challenger 1, not Challenger 2 MBT - the CR1 doesn't have the L94a1 chaingun that the Warrior does (the Challenger 2 does however) The CR1 uses the L37A2 7.62mm coaxial machine gun - a variant of the L7 GPMG. Also, the L7/M240 GPMG is also used on the CR1 as the commander's external/AA defence machine gun (although the vehicle mounted variant is the L8A2 if memory serves me correctly) Other than that, the article looks pretty good to me [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

:::Thanks, have added in a pic of the L37 in the L7 section (took a while to find one, most don't seem to have it mounted in the series) and fixed the L94 section to remove the Chally 1. Think Iwill leave out the L8A2 though, unless I find an episode when it is actually used. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 20:14, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

On another topic, can someone confirm for me whether my guess that the AK-47 looking rifle is actually an R4 is correct as I am by no means an expert on these kinds of rifles.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 20:14, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

::RE:AK/R4 - I'd say you are correct in that it is not a 'real' AK-47, and it does indeed look very similar to the R4, albeit with wooden parts on it (but, like yourself, I am not an AK expert) It does appear to be missing part of the R4 - the metal 'lump' infront of the charging handle but behind the foreguard (visible on the R4 display pic, but not the 'AK')

:::If you are talking about the lump on the underside in front of the magazine, that is just the feet of the folding bipod, which is removeable.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:01, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
::::No, Its the 'thing' on the top of the reciever - it is directly above the indentation in the magwell. It's visible on the actual R4s, but not the 'AK'.
On the Chally, you've mixed them up - the L37 is the coax MG (not visible in shot), the L8 is the commanders pintle mount (visible in shot). Both are used in an episode (training), along with the CRARRV's L8A2, but I cannot remember the episodes (it was from the Robson Green era of the show) --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:Am pretty sure I am correct. L8A1 is for internal coaxial mounting and barrel has fume extractor, trigger is a solenoid and there is only a folding emergency pistol grip. L37A1 is for pintle mounting and uses the breech of the L8A1, but mates it with a conventional L7A1 barrel and uses a regular pistol grip and trigger.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 21:58, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
::I'll be honest, I'm getting my info from 3 text books and a magazine article on the L7 GPMG in service - all three suggest L37 is the coax - but I'll admit the Chally 1 is not my main topic (a little bit before my time, Chally 2 however isn't - but that has a bog standard L7 and L94A2) I'm happy for you to leave it the way it is, as I think you've probably gotten it correct.--[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Soldier Soldier (TV series)

2010-10-30T06:00:30Z

Spanner:

Just started a major revamp of this page as it was a bit lean. Will look a bit sorry for itself for a few days though. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 23:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

::You've done an excellent job so far, however there is a few minor error. The series has the Challenger 1, not Challenger 2 MBT - the CR1 doesn't have the L94a1 chaingun that the Warrior does (the Challenger 2 does however) The CR1 uses the L37A2 7.62mm coaxial machine gun - a variant of the L7 GPMG. Also, the L7/M240 GPMG is also used on the CR1 as the commander's external/AA defence machine gun (although the vehicle mounted variant is the L8A2 if memory serves me correctly) Other than that, the article looks pretty good to me [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

:::Thanks, have added in a pic of the L37 in the L7 section (took a while to find one, most don't seem to have it mounted in the series) and fixed the L94 section to remove the Chally 1. Think Iwill leave out the L8A2 though, unless I find an episode when it is actually used. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 20:14, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

On another topic, can someone confirm for me whether my guess that the AK-47 looking rifle is actually an R4 is correct as I am by no means an expert on these kinds of rifles.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 20:14, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

::RE:AK/R4 - I'd say you are correct in that it is not a 'real' AK-47, and it does indeed look very similar to the R4, albeit with wooden parts on it (but, like yourself, I am not an AK expert) It does appear to be missing part of the R4 - the metal 'lump' infront of the charging handle but behind the foreguard (visible on the R4 display pic, but not the 'AK')

:::If you are talking about the lump on the underside in front of the magazine, that is just the feet of the folding bipod, which is removeable.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:01, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

On the Chally, you've mixed them up - the L37 is the coax MG (not visible in shot), the L8 is the commanders pintle mount (visible in shot). Both are used in an episode (training), along with the CRARRV's L8A2, but I cannot remember the episodes (it was from the Robson Green era of the show) --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:Am pretty sure I am correct. L8A1 is for internal coaxial mounting and barrel has fume extractor, trigger is a solenoid and there is only a folding emergency pistol grip. L37A1 is for pintle mounting and uses the breech of the L8A1, but mates it with a conventional L7A1 barrel and uses a regular pistol grip and trigger.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 21:58, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
::I'll be honest, I'm getting my info from 3 text books and a magazine article on the L7 GPMG in service - all three suggest L37 is the coax - but I'll admit the Chally 1 is not my main topic (a little bit before my time, Chally 2 however isn't - but that has a bog standard L7 and L94A2) I'm happy for you to leave it the way it is, as I think you've probably gotten it correct.--[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Soldier Soldier (TV series)

2010-10-29T20:41:18Z

Spanner:

Talk:Soldier Soldier (TV series)

2010-10-29T17:35:37Z

Spanner:

Soldier Soldier (TV series)

2010-10-29T17:27:09Z

Spanner: /* L94A1 chain gun */

{{incomplete}}
'''The following weapons appear in the television series ''Soldier Soldier'':'''
[[Image:SoldierSoldierCompleteDVDset.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Soldier Soldier'' (1991 - 1997)]]
__TOC__ 

==Handguns==
===Glock 17===
[[Glock 17]]s can be seen being carried by armed police during the terrorist incident in "Sweet Revenge" (Season 5, Eisode 7).

[[Image:Glock17EarlyModel.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A generation 2 Glock 17 in 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:GLOCK 17 S05E07 - 19H54M04S214.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A Glock can be seen on the belt of the left policeman as he jumps to clear a fence to gain access to the property.]]
[[Image:GLOCK 17 S05E07 - 19H54M25S5.JPG|thumb|none|500px|GLocks can be seen in the holsters of all 3 polcemen in this shot, as they storm the house after shots are fired.]]

===Webley Mk IV===
A [[Webley Mk IV]] can be seen being carried by a Chinese illegal immigrant in "Lifelines" (Season 2, Episode 4).

[[Image:Webley-MK-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley Mk.IV WW2 British Army version chambered for .38 S&W]]
[[Image:WEBLEY S02E04 - 19H14M42S90.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The revolver can be seen in the Chinese man's lap.]]
[[Image:WEBLEY S02E04 - 19H14M54S206.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The Chinese man reaches for the revolver when he hears a British patrol.]]

===Unidentified Revolver===
A unidentified revolver can be seen on the belt of an RUC officer delivering a subpoena just before he is shot and killed in "All the King's Men" (Season 1, Episode 1).

[[Image:REVOLVER S01E01 - 21H33M24S95.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The revolve in question can be seen on he RUC officer's right hip.]]

==Submachine Guns==
===Heckler & Koch MP5===
A number of [[MP5A3]]s are seen being carried by police during the terrorist incident in "Sweet Revenge" (Season 5, Eisode 7). They all of flashlight handguards attached, and either mount a laser sight, or telescopic sight on top.

[[Image:MP5A3 StockCollapsed.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5 S05E07 - 19H45M53S208.JPG|thumb|none|500px|This MP5 has a laser mounted on top]]
[[Image:MP5 S05E07 - 19H49M15S19.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Two policeman provide cover to police negotiators with scoped MP5s]]

===Sterling SMG===
In "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14) a [[Sterling SMG]] can be seen being fired by a Makindi militiaman.

[[Image:Sterling-Mk-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sterling Mk. IV Submachine Gun - 9mm]]
[[Image:STERLING S05E14 - 21H11M19S99.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The Sterling SMG can be seen in the bottom right of this frame being fired from the back of a pick-up truck.]]

==Shotguns==
===Double Barrelled Shotgun===
A number of [[double barrelled shotguns]] can be seen in "Battlefields" (Season 1, Episode 5) at a clay pigeon shooting ground, and another double barrelled shotgun features prominently in "Bushed" (Season 5, Episode 4) being used by a farmer in Australia, who mistakenly fires it at a group of soldiers believing them the be intruders.

[[Image:SHOTGUN S01E05 - 22H02M45S112.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Both side by side (right) and over and under (far left) shotguns can be seen in the clay pigeon shooting scene.]]
[[Image:SHOTGUN S05E04 - 19H32M12S32.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The farmer's shotgun can be clearly seen as he allows the soldiers to use his radio to call for help.]]

===Sawed Off Shotgun===
A [[12_Gauge_Double_Barreled_Shotgun#Short_barreled_Side_by_Side_Shotgun_.28Sawed_Off.29|sawed off shotgun]] can be seen being used by the hostage taker in "Sweet Revenge" (Season 5, Eisode 7).

[[Image:SHOTGUN S05E07 - 19H42M25S3.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Bryan Casey ([[James Nesbitt]]) pointing his shotgun at a hostage.]]
[[Image:SHOTGUN S05E07 - 19H52M41S153.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A policeman carried the unloaded shotgun after the siege is over.]]

===Unidentified Pump Action Shotgun===
This shotgun can be seen carried by an armed robber before he is disarmed by an off-duty Military Policewoman in "Shifting Sands" (Season 3, Episode 1).

[[Image:SHOTGUN S03E01 - 00H32M33S115.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The shotgun in question. All that can be said about it from the few moments that it is onscreen is that it has a wooden pistol grip and no stock.]]

==Rifles==
===L85A1===
The [[L85A1]] Is the standard weapon used by the British Forces in this series, and is used throughout the run of the show. Normally they have SUSATs mounted (as the Kings Own Fusiliers is an infantry regiment) and is often seen with mounted blank firing adapter (BFA).
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|L85A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:L85A1 S01E04 - 21H40M28S24.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Lt Nick Pasco ([[Peter Wingfield]]) cleans his L85A1 in "Fighting Spirit" (Season 1, Episode 4). The part that he is holding is the bolt guide rod and return spring assembly.)]]
[[Image:L85A1 S04E03 - 23H14M28S3.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Troops take part in a beach landing exercise in Cyprus in "Damage" (Season 4, Episode 3) with BFAs attached to their L85A1s.]]
[[Image:L85A1 S04E07 - 23H30M58S0.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Pvt Tucker ([[Robson Green]]) carries his L85A1 on ceremonial duties with bayonet attached and with ceremonial coverings in "Further Education" (Season 4 Episode 7) at Windsor Castle.]]
[[Image:L85A1 S04E11 - 00H09M48S169.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Soldiers perform NSPs (normal safety procedures) after NBC (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical) training in "Poles Apart" (Season 4 Episode 11).]]
[[Image:L85A1 S05E09 - 20H03M04S106.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An L85A1 mounter with SAWES(Small Arms Weapons Effects Simulator) equipment in "Love and War" (Season 5, Episode 9).]]
[[Image:L85A1 S05E14 - 21H13M10S117.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A non training use of the L85A1, when the battalion is sent to the civil war torn Makindi in "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14).]]

===Steyr AUG A1===
The [[Steyr AUG A1]] is the standard issue Assault rifle of the New Zealand and Australian armed forces, and is seen as such in seasons 3 and 5 respectively.

[[Image:Steyr-AUG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Steyr AUG - Austrian Army Version 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:STEYR AUG S03E01 - 00H28M03S72.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A New Zealand Army soldier patrols With his Steyr AUG during a training exercise in "Shifting Sands" (Season 3, Episode 1).]]
[[Image:STEYR AUG S03E01 - 00H29M02S200.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A squad of New Zealand Army soldiers getting a bollocking in "Shifting Sands" (Season 3, Episode 1) with their Steyr AUGs slung across their chests.]]
[[Image:STEYR AUG S05E04 - 19H29M22S97.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An Australian soldier runs with his Steyr AUG in "Bushed" (Season 5, Episode 4).]]

===Vektor R4===
As the standard weapon of the South Afican armed forces, the [[Vektor R4]] is seen on a number of occasions during season 5.

[[Image:VektorR4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Vektor R4 assault rifle of the South African forces 5.56x45mm with 50-round magazine]]
[[Image:R4 S05E13 - 20H37M32S9.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A group of South African soldiers running with their R4s slung across their chests from "Under the Skin" (Season 5, Episode 13).]]
[[Image:R4 S05E13 - 20H43M46S213.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An R4 can be seen in the bottom right of the frame resting on its internal bipod from "Under the Skin" (Season 5, Episode 13).]]
[[Image:R4 S05E15 - 21H20M22S130.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A South African soldier firing his R4 in "Twist of Fate" (Season 5, Episode 15).]]

===FN FAL===
An [[FN FAL]] can be seen being used by Makindi militiamen in "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14).

[[Image:FN-FAL-50.61.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN FAL 50.61 Paratrooper with 21" barrel - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:STERLING S05E14 - 21H11M19S99.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An FN FAL can be seen resting against the back window of this pick up truck. From what little can be seen of this weapon, it appears that from the stock it is a folding stock paratrooper version of the FN FAL.]]

===L1A1 Self Loading Rifle===
The [[L1A1]] (British version of the FN FAL, also known as the SLR) can be seen in the title sequence for Season 1 of the show. These images appear to be stock footage, and hence are likely video clips of real soldiers.

[[Image:L1A1-SLR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|British Inch Pattern L1A1 SLR (Self Loading Rifle) chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO - Variation of the FN FAL rifle. British & New Zealand SLR's were later fitted with black fibreglass furniture as seen here.]]
[[Image:CARL GUSTAV L1A1 - 15h10m16s241.jpg|thumb|none|500px|An anti tank gunner (note the Carl Gustav launcher on his back) carrying an SLR,]]
[[Image:L1A1 - 15h11m33s235.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A group of soldiers carrying SLRs jump out of a Rigid Raider. Note that this is from the opening credits, where the images are displayed as if projected onto the skin of a playing side drum.]]

===AK-47 Mock-up===
Seen several times in the hands of Makindi militiamen, this appears to be a South African [[Vektor R4]] modified to look like an [[AK-47]].

[[Image:VektorR4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Vektor R4 assault rifle on which this weapon is based.]]
[[Image:AK S05E14 - 20H58M15S180.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A child soldier patrolling with his modified R4 in "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14). Note the shape of the lower reciever, the indentation above the magazine well, the shape of the gas block and the magazine type that all point towards this being an R4.]]
[[Image:AK S05E14 - 21H10M04S85.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A Makindi militiaman fires his rifle from the back of a truck in "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14).]]

===Unknown G3 variant===
A short barrelled variant of the [[G3]] is seen in the hands of a Makindi militiaman in "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14). This is possibly the South African version of the G3, with the barrel cut down all the way to the front sight.

[[Image:SouthAfricanG3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|South African version of the Heckler & Koch G3A3 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:G3 S05E14 - 21H12M05S32.JPG|thumb|none|500px|G3 in the centre of the shot. Note the raised section at the back of the fixed butt.]]
[[Image:RPD G3 S05E15 - 21H19M50S42.JPG|thumb|none|500px|G3 visible on the far right. note the peculiar slotted hand guard with grooves along the bottom edges.]]

===Short Magazine Lee-Enfield (SMLE)===
The [[Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III*]] is seen in "Further Education" (Season 4, Episode 7) during the D-Day commemoration event.

[[Image:SMLE.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III* - .303 British. This was the main battle rifle of British and Commonwealth forces during the First World War, introduced in 1907 it has seen action throughout the 20th century.]]
[[Image:LEE ENFIELD S04E07 - 00H03M37S58.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Two teams compete in a simulated batle exercise, one using 1940s equipment, the other modern day equipment.]]

===Unknown Musket===
A Musket can be seen mounted on the wall of the Cafe in "Shifting Sands" (Season 3, Episode 1) along with another unidentified rifle.

[[Image:FLINTLOCK S03E01 - 00H31M00S78.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The Musket can be seen mounted on the wall behind Sergeant Nancy Garvey as she disarms an armed robber.]]

==Machine Guns==
===L86A1===
The [[L86A1]], or LSW, is seen multiple times throughout the series. However, it is not seen as regularly as it should be, as when the series was set the LSW was issued at a rate of one per four man fire team.
[[Image:SA80-L86A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|L86A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:L86A1 S02E06 - 19H25M55S159.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An "enemy" on a training exercise emerging from the hatch of an armoured vehicle with his LSW, in "Lost and Found" (Season 2, Episode 6).]]
[[Image:L86A1 S02E07 - 19H36M56S103.JPG|thumb|none|500px|During a beach landing exercise in "The Last Post" (Season 2, Episode 7) as gunner is seen using his LSW from the upper deck of an LCU (Landing Craft Utility) Mk9.]]

===L7===
The UK version of the [[FN MAG]], the L7 is the standard general purpose machine gun of the British armed forces, and is also seen mounted on South African helicopters. Generally in the series it is only vehicle mounted, or used in prepared positions.

[[Image:L7A2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|British L7A2 General Purpose Machine Gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:L7 S01E04 - 21H43M55S79.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Setting up an L7 in the sustained fire mode, with butt removed and tripod added in "Fighting Spirit" (Season 1, Episode 4).]]
[[Image:L7 S02E07 - 19H38M04S26.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A Royal Marine acts as "enemy" during a beach landing exercise in "The Last Post" (Season 2, Episode 7).]]
[[Image:L7 S04E12 - 00H14M29S147.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A soldier loads his L7 with a belt of blanks in "Bombshell" (Season 4, Episode 12).]]
[[Image:L7 S05E14 - 20H49M08S101.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An L7 is seen mounted on a South African AS350 helicopter, along with presumably mocked up rocket pods in "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14).]]

===M240D===
An [[FN_MAG#M240_Machine_Gun|M240D]] can be seen in "Bushed" (Season 5, Episode 4) mounted in the window of an Australian Army Blackhawk helicopter.

[[Image:M240d.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240D 7.62x51mm NATO vehicle and aircraft-mount version with spade grips]]
[[Image:MAG58 S05E04 - 19H30M12S45.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An M240D seen on the flexible mount of an Australian Blackhawk.]]

===Browning M1919===
The [[Browning M1919]] is seen in use by Australian, South African and Makindi Militia forces. With the exception of the M1919s that are mounted on Australian M113 APCs which are real military vehicles, it is possible that the M1919s used in the series are prop replicas, as their is no belt inserted into the gun, yet it appears to fire, producing flash and smoke.

[[Image:M1919A4Browning.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M1919 .30-06 on M2 tripod]]
[[Image:M1919 M2 S05E05 - 19H36M22S189.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The turret of an Australian M113 APC in "Far Away" (Season 5, Episode 5), with the M1919 on the left with a conical flash hider.]]
[[Image:M1919 S05E14 - 20H53M40S10.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An M1919 is mounted on a borrowed south African jeep, and is operated by british soldiers in "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14). Note that the light seems to go straight through the barrel shroud, implying that there is no actual barrel.]]
[[Image:M1919 S05E14 - 21H01M36S153.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The jeep mounted M1919 is fired in "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14), producing smoke and flash despite having no ammunition belt attached.]]
[[Image:M1919 S05E15 - 21H21M02S240.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An M1919 can also be seen mounted on a Makindi truck in "Twist of Fate" (Season 5, Episode 15).]]

===Browning M2HB===
A [[Browning M2HB]] is first seen mounted in an Australian M113 turret, and is later seen with a Drum Magazine mounted on a South African vehicle. Similarly to the M1919 above, it is likely that this is a modified prop gun.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB on vehicle mount - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:M1919 M2 S05E05 - 19H36M22S189.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The turret of an Australian M113 APC in "Far Away" (Season 5, Episode 5), with the M2HB on the right.]]
[[Image:M2 S05E14 - 20H52M28S43.JPG|thumb|none|500px|An M2HB is mounted on a borrowed south African jeep, and is operated by British soldiers in "Baptism of Fire" (Season 5, Episode 14). Note the drum magazine, that appears to be a simple bolt on prop, as it has no opening for feeding rounds, and is not in-line with the feed tray anyway.]]
[[Image:M2 S05E14 - 21H06M44S140.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The M2HB being fired, producing smoke despite having no rounds fed to it.]]

===RPD===
An [RPD] can be seen being used by Makindi militia forces in "Twist of Fate" (Season 5, Episode 15).

[[Image:RPD-Light-Machine-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPD Light Machine Gun - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:RPD G3 S05E15 - 21H19M50S42.JPG|thumb|none|500px|A militiaman fires his RPD from the back of a truck.]]

===L94A1 chain gun===
This weapon is seen throughout the run of the series, as the coaxial weapon of FV510 Warriors and Challengers and as the main weapon on FV512 MCRVs.
[[Image:L94 S07E01 - 00h15m21s32.jpg|thumb|none|500px|An L94A1 mounted in the turret of an FV512 Mechanised Combat Repair Vehicle in "Stormy Weather" (Season 7, Episode 1).]]
[[Image:L94 S07E01 - 23h37m50s202.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Warriors firing their L94A1s during an exercise in "Stormy Weather" (Season 7, Episode 1). The large yellow device mounted onto the muzzle appears to be some kind of BFA. As the L94A1 is a chain gun and cycles rounds with electrical power rather than gas pressure, it is likely that these BFAs are used purely as a safety measure to minimise the amount of powder residue that is shot out in close proximity to exposed troops.]]

==Heavy Weapons==
===LAW 80===

===Carl Gustav Recoilless Rifle===

===RPG-7 Mock-up===

===L16 81mm Mortar===

===Unidentified Mortar===

===L21A1 RARDEN 30mm Cannon===

===L23A1 76mm Gun===

===L11A5 120mm Gun===

===QF 3 Pounder Hotchkiss 47MM Naval Gun===

===Unidentified Artillery===

==Other Weapons==
===Bayonet===

===L2 HE Grenade===

===L3 Inert Grenade===

===L4 Drill Grenade===

===PE4 Plastic Explosive===

===C3 Elsie Mine===

===Unidentified Mines===

===L50 Series Smoke Grenade===

===L60 Series Smoke Grenade===

===Tripflare===

===Flashbang===

===Mark 8 Thunderflash===

[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:British Produced/Filmed]]

Enfield SA80

2010-10-20T19:18:33Z

Spanner: /* Film */

The '''SA80''' ('''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80'''s) is a series of 5.56x45mm bullpup assault rifles and light support weapons designed on the operation of the [[Armalite AR-18]] and SAR-87 (An advanced AR-18 made by the rival company Sterling Armaments of Dagenham), and produced from 1985 to 1994 by the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock.

In 1988 production of the rifle was transferred to the Royal Ordnance’s Nottingham Small Arms Facility (later British Aerospace, Royal Ordnance; now BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions & Ordnance).

'''The SA80 can be seen in the following films, television series, anime and video games used by the following actors:'''

==Specifications==

''(1985-1994)''
*'''Type:''' Assault Rifle
*'''Caliber:''' 5.56x45mm NATO
*'''Capacity:''' 20, 30-round STANAG magazines
*'''Fire Modes:''' repetition (semiautomatic), automatic (safety is NOT a fire mode and is separate to the selector)

=L85=

==L85A1==
The original variant of the SA80 series issued to the British forces. These were manufactured by Royal Ordnance (Formerly known as Enfield) from 1985 until 1994 after the notorious faults of the weapon in battlefield conditions.

[[Image:Sa80-l85a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army Guards || With covered SUSAT scopes and bayonets || 1992
|-
| [[Patriot Games]] || || British Army soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 1992
|-
| [[Dog Soldiers]] || || British Army soldiers || With blank-firing adaptors and SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Aliens]] || || || Seen on gun rack on ''Sulaco'' in extended edition || 1986
|-
| [[Police Story 3: Supercop ]] || || Royal Hong Kong police officer || 1992
|-
| [[Resident Evil: Extinction]] || [[Linden Ashby]] || Chase || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
| [[Doomsday]] || || British Army Guards || Appear to be old airsoft toys (due to mini Union Flag near butt plate) || 2008
|-
| [[Underworld]] || || || With SUSAT scope, seen on gun rack || 2003
|-
| [[Punisher: War Zone]] || || ||Seen on gun rack || 2009
|}
===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Bugs]]/"Stealth" || || || || 1995 - 1999
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || [[Robson Green]] || Dave Tucker|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Soldier Soldier (TV series)|Soldier Soldier]] || ??? || British Army soldiers|| w/ SUSAT scopes, w/ and without bayonets and protective covers || 1991 - 1997
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Alliance soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002
|-
| [[Firefly]] || ??? || Browncoats || || 2002
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]] || ??? || Honor guards || w/white-painted handguard and lower receiver || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Battlestar Galactica]]/"Resistance", "The Farm" || ??? || Caprica Resistance fighters || w/ SUSAT scopes || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Situation Critical]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2007
|-
| [[Zero Hour]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || || 2004-2007
|-
| [[Caprica]] || ??? ||Caprican police officer || ||2010
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || w/ SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas (PSP)]] || || || ||
|-
| [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]] || IL86 || w/optional [[M203 grenade launcher]] and suppressor || Erroneously shown with controls inverted onto the lefthand side || 2007
|}

===Anime===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film/Series Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Akira]] || Neo Tokyo Police troops || w/SUSAT scopes || 1987
|-
| [[Spriggan]] || British (?) troops || || 1994
|}
 

==L85A2==

The L85A2 is a revamped version of the L85A1 with improved components, most notably the external 'Comma' shaped combined charging handle/brass deflector and stronger internal parts. The upgrading of L85A1 rifles to the L85A2 standard was carried out by Heckler & Koch between 2002 and 2006; since then further improvements have been made in response to operational requirements, including new RIS/RAS equipped foreguards and the adoption of the ACOG sight by some units in Afghanistan. The new foreguards and the adoption of the Elcan Spectre as the official replacement of the SUSAT will be applied to all British Army units over the next three to four years.

[[Image:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sa80-l85a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:L85A2AG36.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L85A2 5.56x45mm with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] 40mm]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[28 Days Later]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes, with and without bayonet || 2002
|-
| [[Children of Men]] || || British soldiers || With SUSAT scopes || 2006
|-
| [[Flood]] || || British soldiers || || 2007
|-
|}

===Television===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Doctor Who (New Series)|Doctor Who]] || ??? || British Army paratroopers || w/and w/out Surefire weaponlights || 2005 - ????
|-
| [[Ultimate Force]] || ??? || British Army soldiers || w/SUSAT scopes || 2002 - 2006
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || w/ || || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With grippod foregrip and optional L17A2 grenade launcher, ACOG or SUSAT scopes || || 2005
|-
| [[Battlefield 2: Modern Combat]] || || w/[[M203 grenade launcher]] || || 2005
|-
| [[Ghost Recon 2]] || SA-80A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2004
|-
| [[Counter-Strike Online]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]] || || w/various optional accessories || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: Confrontation]] || IW-80 A2 || || || 2008
|-
| [[Delta Force: Task Force Dagger]] || Sa-80 A2 || w/SUSAT scope || || 2002
|-
| [[Contra 4]] || || || || 2007
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || SA80A2 || w/ RIS, SUSAT, EOTech sights; also can be fitted with [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher|L17A2 grenade launcher]] || || 2010
|-
|}
 

=L22=

==L22 Prototype==
Converted from L86A1 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC, RAC and some REME Crew as a personal defence weapon. Often wrongly refered to as the L22A1, this gun was never given an L designation, known only as an SA80 AFV or Armoured Fighting Vehicle.

[[Image:Sa80-l22a1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|SA80 AFV prototype with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Killing Floor]] || Bullpup || w/EOTech red dot sight and 40-round magazine || || 2009
|-
|}
 

==L22A1==
Converted from L86A2 Light Support Weapons, These are issued to AAC Crew as a personal defense weapon. Often wrongly labled the L22A2. The L22A1 has the same internal modification as the L85A2 and L86A2, but as the modification were done before the L22 was officially introduced it is designated the L22A1, new upgrades are now available such as the 20rnd magazine and picatinny rail systems.
[[Image:Sa80A2-l22a2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L22A1 w/20-round magazine and SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}

 

=L86=

==L86A1==
The L86A1 Light Support Weapon is the sustained fire variant of the SA80 series. Many have been replaced by the [[FN Minimi]] in this role or converted into L22 Carbines for AFV/Chopper crew members as a personal defense weapon.

[[Image:SA80-L86A1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A1 with SUSAT scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Film===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[A Sound of Thunder]] || || Apartment Resident || Lacks either iron sights or optics || 2005
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Modern Warfare 2]] || || w/red dot sight and SUSAT scope || || 2009
|-
|}
 

==L86A2==
A revamped L86A1 LSW. The L86A2 is in limited usage along the FN Minimi, only for DMR purposes as it has superior accuracy/range. The L86A2 is also used by the ACF but only 3-Star+ Trained Cadets are allowed to use this weapon.
As of 2009/10, futher modifications have been made to L86A2s used in Afghanistan. These have the current foreguards replaced with the DD-quad RAS foreguard (with the ability to add various extras on all surfaces, such as foregrips or flashlights). The outrigger under the barrel can been removed (but bipod retained) or replaced with a RiS/RAS rail system. SUSATs retained, with the intention of replacing them with Elcan Spectre optics. These modifications have only been made to a select few units L86A2 DMRs. Those units not in, or immediately going to Afghanistan have yet to recieve the upgrades.

[[Image:Image-SA80-L86A2.jpg|thumb|right|400px|L86A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Fallout 2]] || Light Support Weapon || || || 1998
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || With SUSAT scope || || 2005
|-
|}
 

=SA80 Prototypes=
Various prototypes made by Enfield for the British Government, starting in 1969. Various models, earliest using NATO 7.62. However, both of the listed below used the experimental British 4.95mm round. When NATO adopted the US 5.56 round, the XL70 series was redesigned to fire 5.56 and renamed under the SA80 programme - '''S'''mall '''A'''rms for the 19'''80''''s. This project also included an LSW (although that version had a changeable barrel)
Originally, the weapon had only a SUSAT - which was built in to the rifle, and non-removable - however, there was a folding foresight (visible)

==XL64ES==
[[Image:EnfieldXL64.jpg|thumb|right|400px|XL64ES, 4.85x49mm]]

===Television===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="225"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Lewis Collins]]||Bodie||||1977-1983
|-
|[[Professionals (TV Series), The]]/Wild Justice||[[Martin Shaw]]||Doyle||||1977-1983
|-
|}
 

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]||Enfield||||||2010
|-
|}

==XL70E3==

===Video Games===
{|class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
|[[Fallout]]||||||||1997
|-
|[[Fallout 2]]||||||||1998
|-
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Assault Rifle]]
[[Category:Machine Gun]]
[[Category:Bullpup]]

Talk:Hot Fuzz

2010-10-19T09:11:01Z

Spanner: /* Guns */

I just saw a commercial for the HD DVD release of ''Hot Fuzz'' and they showed a scene wherein a Catholic priest says "Stop this mindless violence!" and whips out two small-frame handguns hidden in the sleeves of his outfit. I was unable to identify them because the camera cut to the next scene in the commercial too quickly. Can anyone else ID these weapons and add them to the article? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 01:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

:I've got a boatload of screenshots for Hot Fuzz I need to upload... pics of the pistols are in there, though I wasn't able to identify them... [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 01:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

==Snarky Commentary==
I am removing snarky commentary from this page. If you're one of the folks who put in sarcastic insults to the actors .... tough titties. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
==Mossberg==
In the Mossberg section, the gun in Andy's hand is NOT a Mossberg, it has a cross bolt safety, and is marked Squires Bingham, so not a Mossberg, idk what it is though, maybe someone else can help with that. Oh and Mary Porter's isn't either, the rear of the receiver has a slight hump. Looks like a Charles Daly.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]] 23:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
==Annette Roper==
The shop owner lady's name is Annette Roper, played by Patricia Franklin.
==Fake Gun?==
Since the air rifle used at the fete and the fake gun used by Eve Draper are included, can anyone else ID the fake gun used by Danny while watching Point Break?

:LOL, that's his TV remote! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 12:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

==Guns==
:you know, for a town in Britain (A country whose top three most hated things are the Irish, Indians and guns) that little town in the movie sure does have alot of firearms-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:15, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Irish, immigrants and guns. Only the extreme right wing of the british goverment hates immigrants and the Irish however.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:14, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
:Sure they do. That totally explains the Troubles hahaha-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:56, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
::I think the Troubles is much more easily blamed on the far-right Ulster Unionists than the British government. And in my experience, the Brits hate the Northern Irish Protestants (who claim to be British) almost as much as the Catholics. But anyway, this isn't the place for this discussion... -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:I don't think the UDA or IRA are going to keep up there antics for much longer, thank god-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

if heckler and koch can send an 82 yr old a MP5 that lives in a small country town mistaking here for a police station anythings posable - scarecrow

The last time I checked, the Conservatives and other right-wing political parties in the UK were as equally against legal gun ownership as their Labour and left-wing counterparts. Don't forget that the 1988 gun laws (the laws that prohibited the legal ownership of semi-automatic centrefire rifles in the UK) that were introduced in the UK after the Hungerford massacre in 1987 were done by Margaret Thatcher's Tory Government.
It seems that the conservatives in both the UK and Australia are against gun ownership and support draconian gun laws (I know because I live in Australia, I own a few firearms and I saw first hand the anti-gun hysteria the conservative government of John Howard and the Australian media whipped up in Australia in the days and weeks after the Port Arthur massacre in April 1996)-[[Roughneck Jase]] 10:09AM AEST, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

:That sums up the the UK gun situation quite well ''Roughneck Jase''. However, the conservatives opinions of guns (UK atleast) can partly be blamed on wanting to appear friendly and liberal - in other words, gain votes. There are that many MAG type groups in the UK, they're bound to get some votes by appearing anti-gun. @ ''Scarecrow'' - if you're talking about what I think you are, it was actually the ''Police Firearms training centre'', not H&K who sent the elderly lady the submachine gun! And finally - trust me S&WShooter, the Brits hate far more than the Irish, Indians and guns.

== Anyone notice maybe... ==

How Mr. Webleys name may be a reference to the british webley revolvers? thought crossed my mind. I know the name comes up a lot in the UK but y'know...something to think about.--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 07:50, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

==Re-organize==
Hope you people don't mind if I re-organized it so it looks cleaner.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 21:00, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

== Outtake firearm ==
In one of the outtakes which you can find on youtube, it shows Simon Pegg failing to do the S019 scene and you can briefly see the Police officer behind him with a shotgun which resembles a Remington 870 but it could be a Winchester or Mossberg used later on, infact The British armed forces use Remingtons for door breaching.

==Old People==

it may be just me, but it seems most of the older townspeople in the movie do a better job of firing their weapons than the younger ones, case in point being Mr. Treacher and the shopkeeper with the Steyr. I guess that proves the old adage, with age comes experience. :P -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 21:13, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Mr. Treacher is so good with firarms because the actor playing him ([[Tim Barlow]]) is actually deaf! He had lost his hearing for over fifty years before having a cochlea transplant in 2008, one year after this film was made. ([[User:jackbel]])

==G36==

During the SO19 scene at the beginning, Simon Pegg fires an automatic burst into the offender with the Kalashnikov. This is incorrect as all weapons used by British Police are limited to Semi-Automatic fire only, as an officer may only use the number of bullets necessary to stop the suspect. This does not apply to Military Police.
[[Theocd]]

Talk:Torchwood

2010-10-19T09:02:28Z

Spanner: /* weird scope on G36 */

you really ought to add the numerous (over)uses of G36s in various episodes.
__TOC__ 

== Unidentified Firearms/airsoft weapons etc ==

[[Image:Torchwood - G36 1.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Is that the usual scope for a G36?]]
[[Image:Torchwood - M4A1.jpg|thumb‎|thumb|none|350px|M4 derivative as seen in Season 2´s "Sleeper".]]
[[Image:Torchwood - Nickel plated sissy pistol.jpg‎‎|thumb|none|350px|Appropriate image name, I know]]
[[Image:Torchwood - Walthern 1.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|]]

Forgot to sign --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 19:09, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== weird scope on G36 ==
all it is on the G36 is a SUSAT scope so know its not the weird being that it is used by britsh army solders

No, it's not. It doesn't have the flat bit in the middle. Looks more like an ELCAN. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:47, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

It is an ELCAN type. You can tell from the front of the sight casing. The mounting looks a bit odd though (but that could the camera angle, and that I'm not used to seeing them on G36s) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-09-12T07:40:17Z

Spanner: /* Where did they go wrong? */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the orrigional L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defence force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visist.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got alot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's alot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. One of the main 'design flaws' that 'experts' commented on at the time was the lack of a 7.62 round and how the SA80 was fully automatic. Do you know what squaddies were doing in the Falklands War to get their 7.62 SLRs to fire in full (well, burst)? Sticking match sticks in the chamber. Half the 'experts' complaints against the SA80 are old traditionalists who want the British Army to go back to 'ye olde glory days' of the 'mad minuite' with Lee-Enfields. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight. As the last line from ARRSE says, "the nice new versions aren't that bad, really. However, johnny squaddie is likely to always miss the nice destructive power that the SLR gave him, and so the whingeing will continue for a long time"

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-09-12T07:33:12Z

Spanner: /* Where did they go wrong? */

:Too bad I will probably never have the chance to handle one of these-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:35, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:Ehh... I could live without messing with one. The fact that it is the main battle rifle of the army, but SAS does not use it says a lot to me. I'll follow the highly trained experts who have the choice in what to carry and from what I've mostly read that choice is a M4 variant. [[User:Eagleye1022|Eagleye1022]] 03:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

::Seeing as I shoot left-handed, this weapon sounds like it'd be a major pain in the ass for me to shoot. Good thing the U.S. uses [[M16 rifle series|M16 & M4-series]] weapons instead. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

:::The British forces are trained to use it right-handed. Yes, its a pain, but it's fairly easy to do, and after a while you get used to it. The A2, and now the newer A2-mk2 are very nice and reliable - just as good as the newer M16 and M4s. One of the reasons the Hereford Gun Club doesn't use the SA80 family is because (aside from the orrigional L85's poor reliability) is because no-one else uses it. (Aside from the defence force of Jamaica and one or two other places). If someone sees them using the L85 (or L86) they can easily guess who's popping in for a visist.

::::I've shot the SA80A2 pretty extensively in field conditions, and never had a jam with it. It's got alot of good features as a soldier (short, easy to clean, very slick sling setup), but as a serious shooter there's alot to dislike. Shitty trigger, hard to reach controls, poor ergonomics in the grips. I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying one in Afghanistan, but I was much happier with my C7. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

:::::I found this little bit of information interesting (from a visit to REME's museum and technical museum) - one of the prototypes for the L85 (XL68 I think) was actually left handed. Also, the L86 prototypes had a changable barrel - it was effectivly a bullpup bren-gun - I wonder why these features never made it into production - time saving I suppose. [[user:Spanner|Spanner]]

==Excessive Variants==
This page has too many SA80 variants that have not appeared in any films/games/animes, it needs to be cut down. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:I removed the L98 section and listed their appearance according to each variant.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Beta-C Compatibility? ==

Does anyone know if any of the SA80-series weapons, such as the L86A1 & L86A2 LSW variants, can use Beta-C drum magazines? I know they can handle all [[M16 rifle series|STANAG]] box magazines, but the design of the SA80's magazine well makes me wonder wether it could take the Beta-C or not. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:In theory it should be able to fit and feed from Beta-C mags, but I think the postiton of the Mag-well, given the bullpup configuration of the weapon, would make it impractical to use, given that it would mean the mag would be in the way of your arm when holding the weapon. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

::Anyone remember the old quad-stacked magazines they used to have for the Suomi M31,(http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg52-e.htm), anyone think that we could bring back that concept? Yeah it wouldn't be the 100 rounds in the Beta-C, but it could potentially make any rifle that can accept STANAG Magazines into a light automatic weapon. [[User:W190009637|W190009637]]

::: No, i don´t think so, for a LaW use an Ultimax or FN Minimi.-[[User:Markost|Markost]] 15:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: Which is what the Birtish Army has done, replaced the L86A2 with the FN Minimi Para (L110A1) in the LSW role, and using the L86A2 in the DMR role with a conventional STANAG Magazine. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'd pick the Ares Shrike out of the lot myself. Light weight, compact, dual belt and magazine feed, rifleman accuracy... what more could one ask for? If only they could get the damned thing into widespread production, it would have been a shoe-in for the USMC IAR program. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::It seems to be doing pretty well in its new DRM role, although a newer version of the A2 is being released - foreguard replaced with the new RAS-guard (and grip-pod), and the outrigger along the barrel has been removed. Various new optics have been trialed, the ACOG is a UOR, until the new Spectre Elcan can be brought in.

:::::::You couldn't really use a Beta C mag in an SA80, espescially if you were wearing a vest. I don't think it would necessarily get in the way of your arm, and it would fit in the mag well, but it would definately get in the way of your chest. Both in the firing position, and the carry - remember with the SA80 sling (slick set-up by the way, I wish you could mount one on a C7) you carry it across your chest. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

==New title==
Is the new title okay?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Overhaul. ==

I'm move several items around this page, as evidently, someone is unable to tell the difference between 1994 and 2008.
Soldier Soldier did indeed use the SA80. However, due to the time it was filmed, and the years it was set, it did not use the A2. Infact, because this was several years '''before''' 2002 the A2 was not in existance yet. Indeed, some of the problems which resulted with the A2's creation had yet to be found (i.e. poor conditions in sand)

Also, there are one or two blindingly obvious errors, for example, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, the IL86 is obviously an A1 (inverted for 'coolness'). This is obvious because: a)the cocking handle is round and b)the in-game story details practically state it is the A1...

*Infact, it appears that most of the TV appearances of the A2 are the A1. Bugs/Stealth, Soldier Soldier, Firefly, Situation Critical, Zero Hour and Battlestar Galactica. These are A1 models used in the show, and because of the Pre-2002 release date of the A2 to the UK armed forces. Dr Who and Ultimate Force are the only TV shows which actually have A2s in them!

== Enfield Prototypes ==

Since these are part of the SA80 family - should they be added?

I'm talking about the late 60's and early 70's models - such as the XL64ES (which has made an appearance, in The Professionals) and the XL70E3 (and others) (Fallout 1 and 2). Use 7.62 NATO and 4.95 British. Latter models used the 5.56 after the US orders NATO to follow suit.

Hell, maybe put the EM-2 in?

I won't to anything until anyone suggests it, but at the moment non of the prototypes have a page/place to link to.

Only if they've actually been used in something. Same reason we don't have the L98s on here. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Ah cheers for putting them up. XL70 appeared in a big mod for Fallout 3 (but blue. P90, G3, Desert Eagle and a load of others appeared in it). You might want to put it up, since you've also put Project Reality. But, I'll leave that choice for you.

== Quad-Rails Updates ==

Anyone got a picture of them? --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.218.80|190.176.218.80]] 01:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

:after a quick search of the net, it appears most of the ones google has to show are either airsoft replicas with the real thing (STAR & Ares can accept it) or complete airsoft replicas. The BBC had some film of soldiers in Afghanistan talking to the Minister of Defence, Dr Liam Fox (sp?), and one of them handed him the new L86A2 - complete with Elcan Spectre and quad-rails.

== Where did they go wrong? ==

If these bullpup rifles are so bad, then what did the designers do wrong that the Steyr AUG, the FN F2000, and the FAMAS do right (just to keep it all European-designed and chambered in 5.56mm NATO)? Why didn't the British Gov't just buy some of the aforementioned rifles for their troops? By the way, if casing ejection is such a problem for bullpups, how much would it cost to license the forward-ejection system (which is patented) of the FN F2000 for the SA80? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: More than it would cost just to drill everyone to shoot right-handed. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::They are not so bad. Having used the A1 and A2, and an M16A4 (I think...A3 or A4) and a(Canadian)M4 in exchange exercises, I would pick an L85 everytime.
The original prototypes that the MoD decided to buy were hand made - and were very reliable - in terms of few jams, few parts broken, etc. The actual production models were mass produced, quickly and cheaply. Cheap mass production will not produce the same level of quality and performance as hand made.
"Buy another rifle" ok...well, at the time, only the FAMAS and AUG were avalible on the market. The SA80 project had been running since the mid 1960's, and produced several good prototypes (XL64, XL70E, the LSW, all of them hand made) If you mean why didn't the MoD replace the SA80 in 2000 - think of the costs. New rifles, spare parts, repair kits, training for the armourers, training for the soliders. Considering at the time H&K were British owned, and running out of Nottingham, it was cheaper and easier to simply have the SA80 updated. In the British army you are trained to become right-handed when shooting. No exceptions. Otherwise, firing down range could become...'interesting' with cases being (literally) ejected left, right and centre. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the SA80 family, apart from the weight (especially with the SUSAT). If I was still in service, I'd take an L85 over other assault rifles any day.
:You seem to forget that the SA80 series is very unreliable and fragile, including the "improved" A2 models.
:: No more so than the M16 series. At least the SA80 wasn't sabotaged by the brass. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
:::@whoever posted before The Weird It - have you ever used them? 'Unreliable' - if you forget to clean or look after your rifle, don't expect it to work. Look after it, like you're taught to at training. Never had a problem with any of the A2s I got asigned, and I used them for four years, and the A1s for 5 years. And fragile? For Christ's sake, most of the rifle is made of steel! The only parts I would call fragile are the plastic pistol grips and foreguards, and that was after some berk ran a landrover over one...
::::For one, I'm not a big fan of the M16 series ether, the M16 and SA80 both can be very unreliable in actual combat conditions with sand or mud. Secondly, No, I have never used a SA80 because I'm American. Thirdly, I think it's just stupid for a combat weapon needing to be cleaned frequently, I mean come! Keeping a weapon clean in muddy or sandy combat conditions is a Oxymoron. A true combat weapon should not have to be clean to be reliable. Just a question, have you actually used your SA80s in severe combat conditions, with the rain, mud, and sand (Just so I can know, not to be critical or rude). And when you say steel, you mean the cheap stamped-steel the weapon is made out of, I heard it dents very easily and screws up the rifle badly (Interestingly, most AKs are made with stamped-steel too, but of a thicker gauge). I think an assault rifle should be made out of stainless-steel and ultra-tough plastic, that way it will need little to no cleaning at all and it will be extremely durable and reliable. The H&K G36 is the only rifle I know that's fairly close to that, it being made out of anti-corrosive finished steel and tough plastic and it is one of the finest assault rifle systems in the world next to AK series.
:::::Yes, I've used it in 'severe' combat conditions. The A1 had problems - but in the 4 years I used my A2s, I only ever had 3 jams. Yes, cleaning a gun is wasted time, but it has to be done for most firearms. That said - I've chucked my L85 into thick mud for a while and then still been able to fire off a few magazines without problem. The whole "SA80s jam when dirty" and "SA80s are unreliable" stuff was only really true for the A1s. The steel is thin - but not that thin. I have seen dents on L85s - but that was because someone had shot it, when the squaddie carrying it had used it as an improvised flak vest. The L85, whilst dented, was still perfectly functioning. Now, the magazines - the orrigional magazines were made of very thin and awful steel. Those dented very easily, and they did cause problems for the gun - which is why they were replaced. A year or so back I read an article, about what the MoD would replace the SA80 with (in 2025) - the idea was, keep the SA80 design - but rebuild it with the same high-quality polymers and light-wieght, non-corrosive metals used in the G36 (as you mentioned). I liked the idea - but I haven't heard anything since, and quite frankly, haven't bothered looking into it. I agree with you - the G36 is a fine weapon, due to it's materials - but you still have to look after it. If the SA80 was re-designed and rebuilt using the materials of the G36 (or similar), it would be a much better weapon system. I'll agree that the SA80 family has problems - the LSW is useless as an LSW, ''but'' is very good as a DMR, the IW is heavy, until recently it was almost impossible to attatch modern 20mm gear to it (I had to screw a strip of RiS to my old foreguard so I could put a foregrip on) - hell, most weapon systems have a downfall or disadvantage - but my point remains. Whilst the SA80 series does indeed have problems - they are fine weapons, and really deserve far more credit than they get. And modern materials could improve the weapon greatly.
::::::Thank you for putting the SA80 in a new light for me. :) So the A1 sucks and the A2 is pretty good, kind of like how the M16 sucks but M16A2/A4 is pretty good. I did not mean you never have to clean the G36 off, but if you get mud or sand in it, you won't have to worry about it. I've seen videos of the G36 (and the HK416) put in to vats of mud and then pulled and fire several mags with out a problem. ;) btw, I still think assault rifles being made out of stainless-steel and plastic is diffidently the way to go. I came up with my own design for a stainless-steel and plastic, 7.62 NATO, 32 round, bull-pup assault rifle. ;)
:::::::Yes, a good comparison would probably be the origional M16s and then the updated version (although, we were told right from the start that the SA80 needed cleaning, I suppose it was just to avoid similar problems)

If they had chosen the FN F2000 (which is a fine rifle in its own right, and easier to aim grenades with given its computerized ballistic curve compensator) then the only direction the brass would be going is down, with the added advantage of easier brass recovery for recycling and whatnot. Still, I guess it's commendable that they made the best of a bad situation, although I wish they took it a little easier on the South Paws over there. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, one of the original pre-production models was a leftie version. The only reason I assume they didn't make it was cost - considering how many people are right handed, and how many left handed people join the Armed Forces, it probably wasn't cost effective to make two versions of the IW and two versions of the LSW. But, training to use the rifle if you are a leftie isn't that difficult. Just very, very annoying. As for the FN F2000, I'll agree it is a fine weapon from what I've seen (I've never had the pleasure to use one) and the downwards brass was a perfect idea. And it's the British Armed Forces. We usually end up trying to make the best out of shite situations... [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

This is a somewhat old article criticizing the SA80 series, but I think I'd like to hear how much of it has been proven false or true by the test of time. [http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html] --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that takes me back... An interesting read. Note of importance - Taking information from ARRSE, like that article did in places, will not end well. It is a joke version of wikipedia, edited by the squaddies and ex-servicemen of the British Army - it generally takes the mick out of anything and everything. It always point out flaws and then exaggerates them. However - I will accept that the L85 does indeed have a problem shooting round left corners. But - I've never faced problems with fumes, like it mentions some have. However, when 25 men are all shooting their rifles whilst in a small room, I have had problems... And 2002 - it was just after the A2s had some out. The unit involved in this (that reported the faults) was one of the RM groups in Afghanistan - it was pointed out that the reason their A2s weren't working was because they hadn't actually cleaned them. As in, ever. 8 years on, with a rigorous and well taught cleaning system and with better internals, the A2 is functioning well - like I said, I only ever had 3 jams in service. The only problem they have now is weight.

== Upgraded LSW ==

Does anyone have any photographs, videos or anything showing the supposed new version of the LSW, using the Daniel Defence rail system, and having the outrigger/bipod system changed? If not I think it should be removed from the article, as I suspect it is pure conjecture.

:- It is somewhat extraneous info, but I don't see what it hurts, really. We've had similar 'extra' info posted about movies and shows on their respective pages. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::I have no problem with information like this being on here, its just that I am fairly sure in this case it is wrong, as I have heard hide nor hair about this upgrade except on this entry. Even in the rare cases when you see the crow cannon being used these days, it is just the standard A2 version, maybe with an ACOG if you are lucky.

::: Boom: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/03/latest-l85a2-model/ Looks kinda ugly if you ask me --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] 20:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

::::That isn't the LSW, but the regular IW with the current array of mods.--[[Special:Contributions/80.177.215.100|80.177.215.100]] 20:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:::::The only photo I've ever seen of one with the new rail system is property of the BBC, and was used in an item about the defence budget/cuts in November. As in, it was part of a film. There are photos of the new Elcan update (only on an L85 so far), taken at an arms fair in London, 2009, when the company announced that the MoD intended to have the Elcan Spectres by 20...11 I think. [[Spanner|Spanner]]

Ok, I've found a photo of the current L86, (Pre-Elcan Spectre Optic upgrade) with an ACOG. Still can't find the pic with the Elcan, but this should do. (Since I do not own the photo I'll link you to the forum, 10 post down on page 12) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=87669&page=12 --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-09-11T17:18:18Z

Spanner: /* Where did they go wrong? */

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-09-11T08:09:45Z

Spanner: /* Upgraded LSW */

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-09-11T07:51:27Z

Spanner: /* Where did they go wrong? */

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-09-10T15:11:44Z

Spanner: /* Upgraded LSW */

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-09-08T15:09:28Z

Spanner: /* Where did they go wrong? */

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-09-07T15:14:32Z

Spanner: /* Quad-Rails Updates */

Talk:Enfield SA80

2010-09-06T06:49:15Z

Spanner:

Hot Fuzz

2010-09-06T05:56:04Z

Spanner: /* Heckler & Koch G36C */

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-04T09:24:05Z

Spanner: /* Unknow rocket launcher guide missile */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknow Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

==Unknow rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Flamethorwer ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-04T09:23:21Z

Spanner: /* Unknow rocket launcher guide missile */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknow Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

==Unknow rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system)

== Flamethorwer ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-02T19:17:23Z

Spanner: /* Enfield */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-02T19:09:59Z

Spanner: /* Enfield */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Saab Bofors Dynamics AT4

2010-09-02T17:26:16Z

Spanner: /* Hmm... */

==Hmm...==
Didn't Sarah Michelle Gellar fire this in BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER? --[[Special:Contributions/24.193.1.9|24.193.1.9]] 23:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

-She sure did. In the middle of a shopping mall! Good thing nobody noticed, because I think they call out the national guard for things like that. [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]]

-I thought that they (Xander?) nicked it ''from'' the national guard in the first place. And it is Sunnydale - a girl with an anti-tank weapon is probably the least of their troubles...
[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Talk:Saab Bofors Dynamics AT4

2010-09-02T17:24:48Z

Spanner: /* Hmm... */

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-02T16:56:26Z

Spanner: /* Enfield */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.