Created page for future reference, Being the top selling american handgun right now its only a matter of time before it shows up.

One I'm not sure where you got that figure, but if no movies use it, then why should we have it? -RedJedRevolver

Didn't Ruger recall this series of pistol?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:56, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

::Well since LCPs are in movie armorer inventory, we should keep the page, just in case it shows up. This is the one exception IMFDB has - original licensed armory photographs for IMFDB. We tend to delete pages for guns that NO ONE that anyone in the industry knows to have a sample, thus we need proof. But guns which are in active Movie armorer inventory may now appear, NOW, but it helps because the Odds are much greater of eventually seeing the guns in a screenshot, so we need a good pic to help identify it when it appears. Hope this helps :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:40, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

My pops own one of these and it's soooo cool. it's light easy to mantain and we get shot groupings about three inches from 50 feet out. either way it's a really good buy.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Talk:Ruger LCP

2010-10-09T02:17:31Z

SargeOverkill:

User:SargeOverkill

2010-09-27T20:15:45Z

SargeOverkill:

*'''Name''' Bailey, Yes, I am a dude
*'''Sate''' Minnesota
*'''Occupation''' HighSschool, Hunting, Baseball, Random Stuff
*'''Plans''' Hopefully join the Army, i want to be in small arms and artillery repair

: Howdy folks! OK yes i'm from Minnesota, which is a glorified version of Canada. I love sports and love guns even more, to the annoyance of my family. i handgun shoot a lot. I can identify sub machine guns and sniper rifles the best.Ii make a lot of money shooting gophers with my silenced air rifle. I belong to an air soft team. I hope to join the Army and be in small arms and artillery repair, which explains why i like this site.
==Note==
-Unfortunately i cannot screengrab and nobody is always right when identifying weapons, including me. that is all

==Contributions==
*[[Top Shot]]-Revamp
*[[MAT-49]]-Revamp
*[[Way of War, The]]-Created
*[[Clarence Williams III]]-Revamp
*[[J.K. Simmons]]-Revamp
*[[NCIS: Naval Criminal Investigative Service]]-Revamp
*[[Cuba Gooding Jr‎]]-Revamp
*[[Call of Duty]] Series-Revamp
*[[Mythbusters]]-Revamp
*[[Deadliest Warrior]]-Revamp
*MANY, many, many guns.
Iv'e now stopped counting.

==Favorite guns==
-Sniper Rifles: [[DSR-1]], [[Barrett M82]], [[Remington 700]], [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]], [[M110]], [[Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle]].

-Battle Rifles: [[M14]] EBR, [[G3A3]], [[FN SCAR]]-H.

-Assault Rifles: [[M16]] series, [[AKM]], [[M1 Carbine]]-C'mon, what's not to love? [[Bushmaster ACR]], [[FN SCAR]]-L, Barrett M468.

-Sub Machine Guns:[[Heckler & Koch UMP]], [[FN P90]], [[AKS-74U]], [[Mini Uzi]], [[MAC-10]], [[Heckler & Koch MP7A1]].

-Shotguns: [[Benelli M4 Super 90]], [[Mossberg 590]], [[Saiga-12]], [[Winchester Model 1897]] Trench Gun.

-Light Machine Guns: [[Vektor SS-77]], [[M60]]E4, [[M249]], [[PK Machine Gun]], [[MG3]].

-Handguns: [[SIG-Sauer P230]], [[Heckler & Koch Mark 23]], Smith & Wesson M&P, [[M1911A1]], [[Smith & Wesson Model 340PD]].

==Guns I've Fired==
Taurus PT1911

Smith & Wesson 3196-9mm Luger

Beretta 92FS

Glock 19

CZ 52

Ruger LCP
Smith & Wesson Model 66

Unknown Sauer & Sohns .22 automatic

Unknownsuaer & Sohns .25 automatic

Karh K40

M1911A1

SMG's

TDI Vector-sheer luck, won the chance to fire it in a raffle.

Shotguns.

20 Gauge Automatic

Westernfield M550

Browning Auto 5

Mossberg M590A1

Rifles

Remington 7600

Springfield M1A

AK-74U

Mini-14 Ranch Rifle

.22 pump

.22 break action.

I don't own all of these. most of them my Gramp's, dad's and uncle's, they were rented, shot at a convention or shot in a raffle

Talk:Franchi SPAS-12

2010-09-27T01:19:44Z

SargeOverkill: /* Just protected this page */

is it just me or are we seeing less and less of the Franchi SPAS-12
:Yup, and the AA12 has taken its place. At least the AA12 isn't heavy and useless-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

- Plus the Benelli M3 gave us the same gun without being quite as heavy or bulky. Still, the SPAS will always have that eternal beefy and badass look to it - Which is the main reason it was used so much. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:45, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

:It's really strange to me that the AA12 has become the latest, coolest auto-shotgun of choice in movies lately, considering that the design is actually ''older'' than the SPAS-12. But yes, Hollywood definitely loves the SPAS, or did. They were still appearing in tons of movies long after Franchi discontinued them. I kinda wish the SPAS-15 had caught on, but no go. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:32, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
:I held a Spas 12 last year and it seems to be heavier than my AR. I still have no clue why people love them so damn much-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 02:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

is the look, it has a intimidating appearance.
The AA12 looks cool and could be a effective weapons system. I don't see modern army adopting as a main rifle, because it the size of a rifle but don't have the range. Rex095
:I'd imagine that no one is going to adopt it as a main rifle because IT'S NOT A RIFLE TO BEGIN WITH.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 07:53, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
:He meant as a main infantry individual firearm, don't pick on words.
::Doesn't matter. [[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] was correct. A shotgun will NEVER be a main infantry weapon anyway. So the initial comment was weird. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I have the Franchi SPAS 12 in my armory. It sucks. Seriously. It's hard to rack rounds on pump action and it tends to jam on semi auto action (either LIVE rounds at the range or blanks rounds with a BFA doesn't matter, it is still really finicky). It tried hard to be the best of both worlds and sucks at both. It's heavy, clunky and is hard to use. Why do you see so many times in films it's used ONLY as a pump action shotgun? because the semiauto action sucks and jams. What I dont' understand is why Franchi didn't just make a dedicated pump action shotgun that LOOKED like the SPAS12 (to get around the stupid "Assault weapon bans" in various states in the US), cut down on the weight and make the action smooth and light. Just the bad ass looks alone would have been a selling point. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:14, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Pfff. i don't care if it looks badass. it a useless hunk of metal. you want a Better, comparible weapon? benelli M3T, ligghter, sleeker, RELIABLE, nearly any shotgun in a combat test would beat a SPAS. For something scary or bad ass that is a better choice for movies? Saiga 12k, Protecta, striker, HS model 10A or a USAS-12. But they picked the SPAS. i was offered to shoot one at a gun convention and i passed. because the SPAS is 9 odd pounds of ''Scheisse'' [[User:SargeOverkill]]

Guess I'm the only one on this site who loves the SPAS 12. :( 9 pounds, pfff, that's not much at all, the AA12 is probably heavier and it's bulkier than the SPAS 12 to boot (not that the AA12's bad in any way). did you know that heavier shotguns are much easier to control and maintain while firing than say, 6 to 7 pound shotguns. Well MoviePropMaster2008 I think you got a lemon SPAS 12 (I bet you can find a lemon Benelli M1014 (my next favorite shotgun) and it's one of the most reliable shotguns in the world!), I've heard from other sources that the SPAS 12 is very reliable, it's possible you have a civilian version (Sporting Purpose Automatic Shotgun), which is probably inferior to the Military version (Special Purpose Automatic Shotgun). I love the SPAS 12 and all it's heavy bulkiness, and you won't make me think differently. :) I not saying its the best shotgun ever but its diffidently a great one. Try talking to actual SPAS 12 users and see what you get. Oh by the way, Protecta/Striker suck because they take way to long to reload and I've heard the USAS-12 isn't very reliable. What's a HS Model 10A? The SPAS 12 being finicky, 1911 pistols can also be finicky but people still love them and carry them into combat.

::Wait a minute. ''' DO YOU OWN ONE?''' If you don't then you don't hold much sway over those who actually own the shotgun. Also, you asked what an HS10A was. It stands for High Standard Model 10A, which was one of the FIRST bullpup auto shotguns in production. But I wait to see if you own one, and whether or not it is a civilian one or a military one. And also, identify yourself when you post :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
[[Image:HIghStandardM10Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|High Standard Model 10A shotgun - 12 gauge. The Model 10A had the flashlight integral to the body of the shotgun and is the rarer of the two models.]]
[[Image:High standard 10 SHG.jpg|thumb|400px|none|High Standard Model 10B shotgun - 12 gauge. The Model 10B had a removeable carry handle and bar to attach both a handle and a flashlight.]]
:That's cool, but it doesn't look as "scary or bad ass" as the SPAS 12 though. Unfortunately, no, I do not own a one (god I wish I did, I'm too poor), :( but don't count me out. :| Sorry, I just know a lot of stuff about the SPAS 12. My sources are reliable and non-biased. I still think you just got a bad SPAS 12 though. Fussing at me about the liking the SPAS 12, is like fussing at someone for liking the Browning HP or the Colt 1911 80s series instead of the Beretta 92FS or the HK USP45 (The former is technically better than the latter).
::I own two Franchi SPAS-12s and have handled SIX. Fussing at you because you like the gun? No. Fussing at you because you're arguing like you know what you're talking about. Yes. It is amazing that you have such a strong opinion of a firearm you don't own and possibly have never even touched or fired. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Wit one moment... "Military" and "Civilian" Versions? I thought the reason for the "Special Purpose" vs "Sporting Purpose" terminology was because Franchi changed it to be more press-friendly. As far as I knew, they were the same damn gun. Also, anon editor; 9 pounds doesn't look like much on paper, but you compared it to a much larger weapon. Go ahead, pick up a SPAS-12 and try not to feel revolted by the weight. I can also assume that you've never tried operating the "controls" on one. It's like Franchi would rather you never be able to even pump the damn thing. (sorry, MPM08, I don't ''own'' one either, but I did get the... "privilege"... to try one out).--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 15:12, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

::- I've read plenty of stuff about the SPAS, and from what I gather, the overall quality and practicality of the gun is questionable at best. I've read several things and notes, some good and some bad, and 'seems questionable' is the overall opinion I make. I won't ever have a valid personal opinion of my own until I try one out for myself - and until then, I will speak with no certainty of any kind about the SPAS. I will say that the others have a point about the weight though - 9 lbs is actually quite heavy for a shoulder-arm, especially for one you might have to lug around for a while. Nonetheless, nobody's trying to discount you because you like them. I think it does look cool and awesome, and like it to that extent myself. But I think the same way about a number of guns, some of which are no better than the SPAS in terms of practical use. Good aesthetics is nice but it doesn't automatically equal a great firearm. Like you, I'd still like to handle one, if only to see for myself whether or not it is that bad. In the end, I will give MPM's word some considerable weight, as the man has handled more firearms than I can even count (and indeed owns about that many). To Franchi's credit, I will give them a bit of a break for trying to be somewhat innovative. Even if it didn't work all that well in the case of the SPAS, it helped pave the way for the Benelli M3 and probably helped some other concepts as well that do work. But overall, in a practical sense, the weapon is not the most desirable from what I've read. Again, that's my own view though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:23, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks StanTheMan my head was about to explode. :) I am diffidently giving MPM's word some considerable weight. Frankly, I don't give a damn about weight. A fully kited M16A4 or other like assault rifles weighs 10 pounds or even more, a milled receiver AK-47 type III weighs over 10 pounds, and a Thompson Sub Machine Gun weighs almost 14 pounds! I don't even know how much an AA12 weighs, 10 to 16 pounds. revolted by the weight, please. And I can't sign because I don't have an account, and I don't know if I want one anymore, because every gun page I go on everybody hates every gun, the 92FS, 1911, G36, MP5, Tommy Gun etc. God the SPAS 12 isn't like the L85A1 or something.

Look, the SPAS is an awful weapon. the Irish Army Rangers figured that out pretty quick and booted it in favor of the Benelli M3T. the Striker and protecta are meant for lightning assault and ambushes. USAS is a very well made shotgun. the High Standards Model 10A is a very innovative shotgun. the Saiga 12K is the BEST shotgun in my mind, Semi Auto, Magazine Fed, Reliable and light. it is much better than the SPAS. i can think of nearly 15+ shotguns that would beet the SPAS in nearly any category. and by the way Badassness is not a real category-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
:I thought people gave up SPAS 12 because it was "big and heavy" not because it was unreliable. Kinda like the Navy SEALs gave up the Mark. 23 because it was "big and heavy".

no, the SPAS was dumped because the IAR decided it was unreliable and not worth the price. then the adopted by the M3t. BTW you right about the MK23 but that was a reliable pistol. plus the P226, the MK23 replacement held more ammo. which was good for Log Range Recon patrols.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
:That sucks, the SOCOM only holds three less rounds and it's a very controllable and accurate .45

I agree. A very good .45 is the HK45-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
:Not good as the MK23 though. :(

Well, at least I have the Benelli M1014/M4 to fall back on. :P -(The guy who liked The SPAS 12 and fussed about it but doesn't own one. :P) Edit: I just found out that the later model SPAS 12s in nearly new condition are very reliable with almost all types of shotgun ammunition in semi-auto and are much easier to pump, look here [http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=c61939ed37126617a3e1a46d5f017e89&t=60729/ link] idk, what do you think. :)

I really hate these people that speak of experiance when they don't have any. No the MK23 isn't worth the price, neither is the USP or the HK45. If you want on my page is a link that sums up what I think of HK that is truthful.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:51, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
:What are you talking about! The MK23 is a great handgun, it's just kinda big and heavy. The USP may not be as accurate as the 92FS or the P220/P226 but it's a excellent and high quality handgun. What's your problem? Are you the same guy who hates the Beretta 92FS?
::No, the Mk23 is a terrible handgun. It may be accurate and reliable, but there are ''dozens'' of other weapons that are just as reliable and accurate without being an awkward, oversized, poorly balanced foot-long piece of metal that costs $2,000. And how does him hating the MK.23 have anything to do with the 92F?--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 21:56, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

The guns that I hate are the ones that don't work and the newer HK guns. I'm pretty biased against them because of their overpriced guns and them crapping on the civilians. I think the 92 is a wonderful handgun. If you decide to make an account, answer this, how is the USP series worth the higher price? What makes it high quality?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:43, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

==Just protected this page==
Don't like completely ANONYMOUS IP addresses arguing with folks. Once you get to a certain point of talking with (and more importantly arguing with IMFDB members) you had better make an account so that you have a contribution history. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:29, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm surprised that this whole site isn't locked so that only people with accounts can post. That would weed alot of the idiots out.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:40, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

::''I really hate these people that speak of experiance when they don't have any.''

::With all due respect, Mr. Five-Two-Seven, the fact that you've read Larry Correia's "HK. Because you suck." blog post doesn't make you any more "experienced" than most of the people on here (I posted that article for discussion on IMFDB's forum almost two years ago). You aren't even old enough to purchase long guns, let alone pistols. You really might want to stop running around and touting your own expertise; since you claim you hate other people who do it, it's hard not to think of you as a hypocrite. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:32, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I know it's a gun site but, FOOL(FIVETWOSEVEN) YOU JUST GOT OWNED IN THE FACE!-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
Besides HK is an awesome firearms manufacturer.

Just because a manufacturer makes good products doesn't mean they can't be overhyped. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

I guess thats true. anytime whether combat or just collecting you always diversify, don't just stick with your favorite brand. either way HK is preeeetty high up there on my list.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Talk:Franchi SPAS-12

2010-09-27T01:19:14Z

Talk:NCIS: Naval Criminal Investigative Service

2010-09-26T23:04:22Z

SargeOverkill: /* M40A1 */

Am I the only one who thinks this article is arranged in a very confusing manner? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:Hold up... -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:19, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

:Better? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Much. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:09, 20 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

I did some cleaning up, but this page still needs a LOT of work. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC

Did anyone see the gun stash in the Season 7 episode "Power Down"? There's an MP7, G36, UMP, P90, M16A2, MP5 and many other guns.```

It's looking very much better. This is the only article I've seen on here arranged in such an extremely sloppy manner that it was when I posted my first comment above. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

the rifle gibbs used in the helicopter shot , was a winchester 73 with a vineer sight. you were right it was not a henry.

For the love of God, Can someone get some screenshots?

** Done. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 09:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

BTW unless I am mistaken, that Combat Elite was a Commander Combat Elite, it had a short barrel.

How about you edit it then. Oh btw could you please put some more screenshots in it.

The gun that mike franks uses is a Kimber Warrior. I watched the episode today and I got a glimpse of the grips and magazine. I own one and they both match mine.

==Title change==
Is there any chance this page's title can be changed back to NCIS: Naval Criminal Investigative Service? It hasn't been called Navy NCIS in years. [[User: Ben41|Ben41]]

==Subdivide Category==
The handgun section of this article is exceptionally long and I was wondering whether putting revolvers (at least half a dozen are listed) in a separate category from auto pistols would help make the sectoin appear less bulky. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

That is a very good idea. -[[User: L.J. Gibbs]]

== Sniper Rifle ID ==

Need help ID'ing this rifle. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:23, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

This is a Marine Corps M40A3.It is the newer version of the M40A1.

[[Image:NCIS_22020.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

They say that Gibbs M40A1 is in a .338 Lapua, which is impossible. The M40A1 was and will always be a short action reviever, it was the M24 that was built on the long action. Is this a mistake of the show itself or a mistake on this web site? [[Spades of Columbia]] Dec 12, 2010

I'm just going by what Abby says near the end of the episode, but she doesn't name any particular rifle. She just says she matched the bullet to his sniper rifle. If your going to have one rifle, why not have two. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 21:36, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

This is from the NCIS wiki about Gibbs rifle ammo "Lapua 308 boat tail, full metal jacket, and molybdenum (or "moly")-coated rounds."

http://ncis.wikia.com/wiki/Leroy_Jethro_Gibbs

Now a lapua 308 win would make sense but why even say lapua when its still a winchester round. plus, it doesnt change the fact that this site has a m40a1 marked as a .338 lapua, so if someone could change that this would make the world right again. [[Spades of Columbia]]

It's a .308 Winchester chambered rifle, but the ammunition is manufactured by Lapua.

== SIG 229 ==

I don't have any screencap proof that they've changed over to the 229 in the new season, so I'm going to put this in the discussion until someone can tell me what episode they saw this in. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer P229
In season 7 the entire Team switches to the P229 .40 S&W the same model the REAL NCIS use.

[[Image:NCIS-ZIVA-7x11-P228.jpg|thumb|none|400px|7x11, P228 not a P229.]]
Also used in 7x08, 7x09, 7x10 and thats all I have recorded right now. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 20:14, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

that still looks like a 228 to me. the trigger guard looks round, and the slide serrations dont go halfway as does the 229. but thats just me...

That's what I said, though my wording could have been clearer. I've removed the listing until there is proof. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 05:48, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

oh crap, sorry i totally didn't read anything you wrote earlier. just looked at the picture x] my bad.

==Kel-Tec==
In one episode (I think it was either "Cloak" or "Dagger") Agent Lee threatens a man extorting information out of her with what looked like a Kel-Tec subcompact pistol. Can anyone confirm this? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==The M9==
Technicolly isn't the M9 and the Berreta 92 the same gun?

- M9 is the military classification of the 92F Beretta, yes. But the M9 classification is used to refer to the guns actually used by actors representing military personnel, while 92F is used in reference to being used by someone non-military (even though in the case of films/shows, they're always 92Fs/92FSs anyway) In addition, the image thumbnail is of a much newer M9A1 (which has the rail), and is not the same as the base 92F/M9. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:42, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up, I think.

::Actually, on IMFDB, we just call them all 92F/92FS, even when they're in the hands of actors playing U.S. military personnel. The reason is that propmasters and armorers in Hollywood only ever use the civilian 92Fs, because the military M9 is almost impossible to find in private hands. And we only care about the behind-the-scenes info, not real life. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Indeed. And I agree, I don't care about real life either. ;D [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:33, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Same here. God bless you all.

==Can't sleep==
I suppose there's no real point to this, but did anyone else notice this? Its from 7x08, and that's DiNozzo just of screen by the way.
[[Image:NCIS-7x08-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|What's wrong with this picture?]]
:you mean the Glock? --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 18:53, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

I forgot I did this earlier. Yes, only that one single camera angle. I've never understood errors like that. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 04:42, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

At the end of the episode "Ravenous," I believe Tony is yet again holding a Glock. This could be a continuity error or it could be due to the fact that he worked for various police departments before joining NCIS. --[[User:Stephen87|Stephen87]] 03:04, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

In season one, spisode 3 or 4 " The Curse", a gun is seen mounted on the wall at 34:46. Any idea what it is?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 02:35, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

You do realize there's a shitload of guns in that episode right? Happen to have a screenshot? --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 20:09, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

You do realize i tolf you exactly when the gun is seen? Find the episode online.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:05, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Apologies, I never notice any guns the first time. This what you mean? If so, not a clue. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 00:22, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:NCIS-1x05-1.jpg|thumb|none|225px|Unknown gun from 1x05 ''The Curse'']]

That's it. Looks almost like a P38 sort of. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 01:43, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

That's what i thought at first, but the front sight and trigger guard aren't right. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:53, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Maybe a Luger or Walther prototype. Just a thought. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

Belive it's a Grendel P-30 pistol, with slide locked back. (Rusgunnut1)

==Moved from main page==
This is where discussions & comments are supposed to go. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 04:52, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

→IMI Mini Uzi -
I love how in this she goes and sprays rounds around from the hip while her mossad partner uses his P90 like true operator would [[24.17.120.59]]

→Walther P99 -
That is probably the smallest "suppressor" I have ever seen on any gun, I doubt it would do much in the way of sound suppression
[[24.17.120.59]]

What is with the section on the "Fake Glock 18". It either has a selector switch and is a true 18 or it doesnt, at which point it would be a modified 17. "Fake Glock 18" just comes off ignorant and is misleading. [[Spades of Columbia]]

== M40A1 ==
Ari attempts to kill Gibbs with it before Ziva kills him. Ari used .308 Lapua Magnums to kill Special Agent Todd, leading Ziva to remark that "You (Gibbs) used .338 Lapua Magnums when you were a sniper". This is strange because the M40A1 is chambered solely in 7.62X51 NATO cartridge. Another major note is that in the "Kill Ari" two part series, a round is called a .308 Lapua magnum was used, this is not an real round, the round used was likely confused with a .308 winchester, or a .338 Lapua magnum. I like the show, but they have to research their ammo.[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Ziva never mentions what caliber Gibbs used, Gibbs himself states it and Ziva replies simply "''That's what you shot as a Marine sniper''"
Prior to this exchange, Gibb's states "''As a marine sniper, I used hand loaded Lapua .308 boattail full metal jacket moly-coated bullets.''" Though recently it has been stated that Gibb's used a .338 Lapua Magnum round to kill Pedro Hernandez in revenge for Shannon and Kelly's deaths. [http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=887] --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 00:20, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

You really need to know what your talking about to post you know. i watch this show almost religiously. trust me i know hat happens.
Under the M40A1, it claimed that Ari used a .338 Lapua round but in the episode "Kill Ari: Part 1" it states that Ari used a .308 Lapua round. I'm not sure how to go about editing the page and just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything. Can someone verify and edit for me? --[[User:Stephen87|Stephen87]] 21:15, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Like stated above the M40A1 is ONLY made in short action and can not possibly ever ever be in a .338 Lapua. Plus, do to the history of that caliber it would not be logical for Ari or Gibbs to use or even get their hands on that type of rifle, it must be a mistake from the show. [[Spades of Columbia]]

The whole deal with the .308 lapua magnum is confusing. 1)There is no such round as a .308 Lapua Magnum. 2) What there thinking of is a .338 lapua magnum for the "Kill Ari" series 3) Gibbs uses a .308s MANUFACTURED by Lapua. not created. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

In the episode "Borderland", Paloma Reynosa gave Abby the round that Gibbs left on the ridge. It said, on the bottom ".338 Lapua"

I know, it was gibbs personal rifle he used to kill Hernandez, not the M40A1. in the future you might wanna get an account or post your name if you want feedback.-[[UserS:argeOverkill]]

== Too much info ==
Ducky reviews autopsy results from the crew of the freighter on which Ziva was traveling and mentions numerous "5.7x28mm" rounds in the bodies. While the 5.7x28mm cartridge is the correct ammo for the P90 used by Israel, the bullet in that cartridge is same .224 bullet used in the standard 5.56x45 NATO cartridge fired by the M16, the SIG 550 and dozens of other weapons. How could Ducky know from just the autopsy that the bullets came from a 5.7x28?

-Bullet weight. They are different grain rounds.

-also, don't forget, you can tell what weapon fired the ammo by the rifling patterns.

== Weapons categorization ==

I noticed that someone reordered the handguns alphabetically. Because of the fact the SIG-Sauer P228 is the main handgun used in the series, I just going to put the SIG-Sauer section first. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree that's how it should be done, it makes sense. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 07:38, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- Sounds fine to me. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:00, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

==Rule Fifty-One==

I was watching the Season 7 finale the other day and I noticed a few things. There's a really good shot of part of Mike Franks's Kimber near the end; it looks like it has pearl grips, but I couldn't get a screencap. Also the cartel members had at least one G36C in Mexico, and a couple MP5Ks on the runway. Unfortunately I couldn't get screencaps so can someone maybe look into this? Thanks --[[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 22:01, 9 August 2010

I watched the episode and Franks' gun has crimson trace laser grips in tan. It looked like it had night sights but wasnt a warrior because it didnt have a ambidextrous safety. I think that his gun is a regular custom II with the night sights and the laser grips.

== SMG in Ziva's Flashback in Shalom==

Can anyone ID the SMG used by Ziva in her flashback to a Mossad Kidon assassination in "Shalom".

It was a [[Micro Uzi]] --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 23:07, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Ah. Thank you, Crazycrankle.

==Revolver used in Cover Story==

Can anyone ID the revolver used by Landon in "Cover Story"? P.S. Add a screencap with the ID.

==Beretta 92FS Inox==

The "Beretta 92FS Inox" has a finish that's way too shiny to be an Inoxidizable (stainless) finish. It looks to me like it's actually a regular Beretta 92F with an after-market polished nickel finish and pearl (or pearlite) grips. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:23, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

==Some Unknown Guns==

A few guns that I'm not positive on. They might not be 100% necessary, but here they are:
[[Image:TwilightHK94_&Q.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Possibly an HK94 Carbine with a civilian-length barrel and a stock. There isn't a clearer shot than this.]]
[[Image:ZivaRevolver1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A snubnosed revolver that Ziva uses to gun down a serial killer while undercover, don't remember the episode but it was in Season 6. The episode is titled "Recoil" --[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] 20:50, 13 September 2010 (UTC)L.J. Gibbs]]
[[Image:ZivaRevolver2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Same as above.]]
[[Image:Sxsw_lever_action.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A lever action rifle used briefly in "South by Southwest". Possibly the same one Gibbs uses?]]
[[Image:GCBC_AK74_&Q.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Maybe an AKS-74, based on the magazine?]]

Given that AK type rifles were used by all the other terrorists, chance are good it's one of the many types. And the Ziva caps are listed as a Colt Python on the main page, though the listing lacks screencaps. Also you may want better quality screencaps if you want to put any of those on the page. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 21:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't have anything better. If anyone else does or can get them it'd be great. That's why I put them here instead. -[[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 17:23, 19 August 2010

==Ziva's rifle in 4x14: Blowback==
[[Image:NCIS-Ziva-4x14-Rifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Not a SL8, maybe a Remington 700 or something? --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 07:06, 28 August 2010 (UTC)]]
Maybe it's a Remington AICS, do you have any other screenshots? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:NCIS-Ziva-4x14-Rifle-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|How's this? Didn't think there was a shot from farther out, I paying attention to the wrong screen when this appeared. Still not very good though. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 09:03, 28 August 2010 (UTC)]]

Yeah, it looks a Remington 700PSS.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 09:26, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

== Ziva's Knife ==

What kind of tac knife does Ziva use? It looks like a SOG Tsunami to me, but were those in production when she first appeared (around Season 3's "Silver War")?

It's listed on BladeForums as a Cold Steel Kobun. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 23:16, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== Frank's Kimber ==

I've been watching for some time now, and have only seen Frank's in 3 episodes. All of these episodes hes' used his Kimber is it just a coincidence or is that his signature weapon like James Bond's is the Walther, and that Dirty Harry's is the .44? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 00:00, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

== McGee is left-handed ==

Is this problematic when using a SIG pistol?

Only when he wants to use the de-cocker...everything else works just fine.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:00, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, McGee is left handed. Like me. --[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] 21:37, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:The de-cocker is a bit of a problem, the slidelock can also be a bit of an issue depending on the size of the shooter's hands. My fingers are a little to long to easily use the P22X slidelock, but I'd imagine that someone with slightly smaller hands could manage it with relative ease.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 22:49, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

==Revolvers==
I separated the revolvers from the pistols in the handgun section to make the page easier to digest. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

:- I don't think it hurts anything. Nice idea, good job. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:01, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
==Pm12==
The mexican dude used a pm12 of some sort in the latest episode, couldn't distinguish what exactly.

You mean the Beretta M12? I know, I added it. Anyone know what the Mexican drug-dealer lady had?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 19:04, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

:I'm assuming you mean this? And her goons were using 551's. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 21:20, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:NCIS-Paloma-Pistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Not a clue.]]

Thats a magnum research micro eagle.
-k9870

Gibbs had that double-barrel shotgun for a second or two as well, and there was a pretty good shot of Franks' Kimber too. --[[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]]

:Should we put that screencap in the main page? [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 05:14, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

No, is very obviously bootleg, which is against site rules. It's been less than a week, so unless you can show me where on the official site it came from, it's bootleg and not allowed on the main page. When the DVD set comes out, it's cool. (Can we screen cap episodes that are available on the CBS webpage?)--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 16:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

There's a very high probability that most, if not all, screen caps from active TV seasons are "bootlegs". The only "legit" options are iTunes and Hulu, the later doesn't meet quality requirements in most peoples eyes. The former is expensive when you already plan on buying the entire season when it's on Blu-ray or DVD. Also, I replaced it with what I believe is an iTunes downloaded version. (I did it on my mum's friends computer, there's no watermarks or anything.) I also got other HD caps from the episode aswell. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 00:33, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

== Smith & Wesson Model 686 (snub)==
[[Image:NCIS12 418.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Greta Boyen (Rebecca Staab) points a snub [[Smith & Wesson Model 686]]) at Micki Shields ([[Mary Page Keller]])]]
[[Image:NCIS12 419.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Micki's husband David (Sean O'Bryan) tries to talk Greta down.]]
- I believe this gun is actually a Model 66, and not a 686 - The second screencap clearly shows the revolver lacks the full-length 'bull-nose' ejector rod lug/shroud that is on the 686. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:33, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

==MP-9==
Not to be picky, but should we have the MP-9 from "Legend: Part II" on here as well, since we have the SIG SG 552s and Glock 17 from that episode as well? --[[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 11: 53, 26 September 2010
:Done. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 21:25, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Brothers Grimm

2010-09-25T14:51:39Z

User:SargeOverkill

2010-09-24T19:49:30Z

SargeOverkill: /* Guns I've Fired */

*'''Name''' Bailey, Yes, I am a dude
*'''Sate''' Minnesota
*'''Occupation''' HighSschool, Hunting, Baseball, Random Stuff
*'''Plans''' Hopefully join the Army, i want to be in small arms and artillery repair

: Howdy folks! OK yes i'm from Minnesota, which is a glorified version of Canada. I love sports and love guns even more, to the annoyance of my family. i handgun shoot a lot. I can identify sub machine guns and sniper rifles the best.Ii make a lot of money shooting gophers with my silenced air rifle. I belong to an air soft team. I hope to join the Army and be in small arms and artillery repair, which explains why i like this site.
==Note==
-Unfortunately i cannot screengrab and nobody is always right when identifying weapons, including me. that is all

==Contributions==
*[[Top Shot]]-Revamp
*[[MAT-49]]-Revamp
*[[Way of War, The]]-Created
*[[Clarence Williams III]]-Revamp
*[[J.K. Simmons]]-Revamp
*[[NCIS: Naval Criminal Investigative Service]]-Revamp
*[[Cuba Gooding Jr‎]]-Revamp
*[[Call of Duty]] Series-Revamp
*[[Mythbusters]]-Revamp
*[[Deadliest Warrior]]-Revamp
*MANY, many, many guns.
Iv'e now stopped counting.

==Favorite guns==
-Sniper Rifles: [[DSR-1]], [[Barrett M82]], [[Remington 700]], [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]], [[M110]], [[Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle]].

-Battle Rifles: [[M14]] EBR, [[G3A3]], [[FN SCAR]]-H.

-Assault Rifles: [[M16]] series, [[AKM]], [[M1 Carbine]]-C'mon, what's not to love? [[Bushmaster ACR]], [[FN SCAR]]-L, Barrett M468.

-Sub Machine Guns:[[Heckler & Koch UMP]], [[FN P90]], [[AKS-74U]], [[Mini Uzi]], [[MAC-10]], [[Heckler & Koch MP7A1]].

-Shotguns: [[Benelli M4 Super 90]], [[Mossberg 590]], [[Saiga-12]], [[Winchester Model 1897]] Trench Gun.

-Light Machine Guns: [[Vektor SS-77]], [[M60]]E4, [[M249]], [[PK Machine Gun]], [[MG3]].

-Handguns: [[SIG-Sauer P230]], [[Heckler & Koch Mark 23]], Smith & Wesson M&P, [[M1911A1]], [[Smith & Wesson Model 340PD]].

==Guns I've Fired==
Taurus PT1911

Smith & Wesson 5906-9mm Luger

Beretta 92FS

Glock 19

Ruger LCP
Smith & Wesson Model 66

Unknown Sauer & Sohns .22 automatic

Unknownsuaer & Sohns .25 automatic

Karh K40

M1911A1

SMG's

TDI Vector-sheer luck, won the chance to fire it in a raffle.

Shotguns.

20 Gauge Automatic

Westernfield M550

Browning Auto 5

Mossberg M590A1

Rifles

Remington 7600

Springfield M1A

AK-74U

Mini-14 Ranch Rifle

.22 pump

.22 break action.

I don't own all of these. most of them my Gramp's, dad's and uncle's, they were rented, shot at a convention or shot in a raffle

User:SargeOverkill

2010-09-24T19:48:48Z

SargeOverkill:

*'''Name''' Bailey, Yes, I am a dude
*'''Sate''' Minnesota
*'''Occupation''' HighSschool, Hunting, Baseball, Random Stuff
*'''Plans''' Hopefully join the Army, i want to be in small arms and artillery repair

: Howdy folks! OK yes i'm from Minnesota, which is a glorified version of Canada. I love sports and love guns even more, to the annoyance of my family. i handgun shoot a lot. I can identify sub machine guns and sniper rifles the best.Ii make a lot of money shooting gophers with my silenced air rifle. I belong to an air soft team. I hope to join the Army and be in small arms and artillery repair, which explains why i like this site.
==Note==
-Unfortunately i cannot screengrab and nobody is always right when identifying weapons, including me. that is all

==Contributions==
*[[Top Shot]]-Revamp
*[[MAT-49]]-Revamp
*[[Way of War, The]]-Created
*[[Clarence Williams III]]-Revamp
*[[J.K. Simmons]]-Revamp
*[[NCIS: Naval Criminal Investigative Service]]-Revamp
*[[Cuba Gooding Jr‎]]-Revamp
*[[Call of Duty]] Series-Revamp
*[[Mythbusters]]-Revamp
*[[Deadliest Warrior]]-Revamp
*MANY, many, many guns.
Iv'e now stopped counting.

==Favorite guns==
-Sniper Rifles: [[DSR-1]], [[Barrett M82]], [[Remington 700]], [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]], [[M110]], [[Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle]].

-Battle Rifles: [[M14]] EBR, [[G3A3]], [[FN SCAR]]-H.

-Assault Rifles: [[M16]] series, [[AKM]], [[M1 Carbine]]-C'mon, what's not to love? [[Bushmaster ACR]], [[FN SCAR]]-L, Barrett M468.

-Sub Machine Guns:[[Heckler & Koch UMP]], [[FN P90]], [[AKS-74U]], [[Mini Uzi]], [[MAC-10]], [[Heckler & Koch MP7A1]].

-Shotguns: [[Benelli M4 Super 90]], [[Mossberg 590]], [[Saiga-12]], [[Winchester Model 1897]] Trench Gun.

-Light Machine Guns: [[Vektor SS-77]], [[M60]]E4, [[M249]], [[PK Machine Gun]], [[MG3]].

-Handguns: [[SIG-Sauer P230]], [[Heckler & Koch Mark 23]], Smith & Wesson M&P, [[M1911A1]], [[Smith & Wesson Model 340PD]].

==Guns I've Fired==
Taurus PT1911
Smith & Wesson 5906-9mm Luger
Beretta 92FS
Glock 19
Ruger LCP
Smith & Wesson Model 66
Unknown Sauer & Sohns .22 automatic
Unknownsuaer & Sohns .25 automatic
Karh K40
M1911A1
SMG's
TDI Vector-sheer luck, won the chance to fire it in a raffle.
Shotguns.
20 Gauge Automatic
Westernfield M550
Browning Auto 5
Mossberg M590A1
Rifles
Remington 7600
Springfield M1A
AK-74U
Mini-14 Ranch Rifle
.22 pump
.22 break action.
I don't own all of these. most of them my Gramp's, dad's and uncle's, they were rented, shot at a convention or shot in a raffle

Talk:Franchi SPAS-12

2010-09-24T19:19:10Z

SargeOverkill:

is it just me or are we seeing less and less of the Franchi SPAS-12
:Yup, and the AA12 has taken its place. At least the AA12 isn't heavy and useless-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

- Plus the Benelli M3 gave us the same gun without being quite as heavy or bulky. Still, the SPAS will always have that eternal beefy and badass look to it - Which is the main reason it was used so much. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:45, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

:It's really strange to me that the AA12 has become the latest, coolest auto-shotgun of choice in movies lately, considering that the design is actually ''older'' than the SPAS-12. But yes, Hollywood definitely loves the SPAS, or did. They were still appearing in tons of movies long after Franchi discontinued them. I kinda wish the SPAS-15 had caught on, but no go. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:32, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
:I held a Spas 12 last year and it seems to be heavier than my AR. I still have no clue why people love them so damn much-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 02:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

is the look, it has a intimidating appearance.
The AA12 looks cool and could be a effective weapons system. I don't see modern army adopting as a main rifle, because it the size of a rifle but don't have the range. Rex095
:I'd imagine that no one is going to adopt it as a main rifle because IT'S NOT A RIFLE TO BEGIN WITH.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 07:53, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
:He meant as a main infantry individual firearm, don't pick on words.
::Doesn't matter. [[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] was correct. A shotgun will NEVER be a main infantry weapon anyway. So the initial comment was weird. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I have the Franchi SPAS 12 in my armory. It sucks. Seriously. It's hard to rack rounds on pump action and it tends to jam on semi auto action (either LIVE rounds at the range or blanks rounds with a BFA doesn't matter, it is still really finicky). It tried hard to be the best of both worlds and sucks at both. It's heavy, clunky and is hard to use. Why do you see so many times in films it's used ONLY as a pump action shotgun? because the semiauto action sucks and jams. What I dont' understand is why Franchi didn't just make a dedicated pump action shotgun that LOOKED like the SPAS12 (to get around the stupid "Assault weapon bans" in various states in the US), cut down on the weight and make the action smooth and light. Just the bad ass looks alone would have been a selling point. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:14, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Pfff. i don't care if it looks badass. it a useless hunk of metal. you want a Better, comparible weapon? benelli M3T, ligghter, sleeker, RELIABLE, nearly any shotgun in a combat test would beat a SPAS. For something scary or bad ass that is a better choice for movies? Saiga 12k, Protecta, striker, HS model 10A or a USAS-12. But they picked the SPAS. i was offered to shoot one at a gun convention and i passed. because the SPAS is 9 odd pounds of ''Scheisse'' [[User:SargeOverkill]]

Guess I'm the only one on this site who loves the SPAS 12. :( 9 pounds, pfff, that's not much at all, the AA12 is probably heavier and it's bulkier than the SPAS 12 to boot (not that the AA12's bad in any way). did you know that heavier shotguns are much easier to control and maintain while firing than say, 6 to 7 pound shotguns. Well MoviePropMaster2008 I think you got a lemon SPAS 12 (I bet you can find a lemon Benelli M1014 (my next favorite shotgun) and it's one of the most reliable shotguns in the world!), I've heard from other sources that the SPAS 12 is very reliable, it's possible you have a civilian version (Sporting Purpose Automatic Shotgun), which is probably inferior to the Military version (Special Purpose Automatic Shotgun). I love the SPAS 12 and all it's heavy bulkiness, and you won't make me think differently. :) I not saying its the best shotgun ever but its diffidently a great one. Try talking to actual SPAS 12 users and see what you get. Oh by the way, Protecta/Striker suck because they take way to long to reload and I've heard the USAS-12 isn't very reliable. What's a HS Model 10A? The SPAS 12 being finicky, 1911 pistols can also be finicky but people still love them and carry them into combat.

::Wait a minute. ''' DO YOU OWN ONE?''' If you don't then you don't hold much sway over those who actually own the shotgun. Also, you asked what an HS10A was. It stands for High Standard Model 10A, which was one of the FIRST bullpup auto shotguns in production. But I wait to see if you own one, and whether or not it is a civilian one or a military one. And also, identify yourself when you post :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
[[Image:HIghStandardM10Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|High Standard Model 10A shotgun - 12 gauge. The Model 10A had the flashlight integral to the body of the shotgun and is the rarer of the two models.]]
[[Image:High standard 10 SHG.jpg|thumb|400px|none|High Standard Model 10B shotgun - 12 gauge. The Model 10B had a removeable carry handle and bar to attach both a handle and a flashlight.]]
:That's cool, but it doesn't look as "scary or bad ass" as the SPAS 12 though. Unfortunately, no, I do not own a one (god I wish I did, I'm too poor), :( but don't count me out. :| Sorry, I just know a lot of stuff about the SPAS 12. My sources are reliable and non-biased. I still think you just got a bad SPAS 12 though. Fussing at me about the liking the SPAS 12, is like fussing at someone for liking the Browning HP or the Colt 1911 80s series instead of the Beretta 92FS or the HK USP45 (The former is technically better than the latter).
::I own two Franchi SPAS-12s and have handled SIX. Fussing at you because you like the gun? No. Fussing at you because you're arguing like you know what you're talking about. Yes. It is amazing that you have such a strong opinion of a firearm you don't own and possibly have never even touched or fired. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Wit one moment... "Military" and "Civilian" Versions? I thought the reason for the "Special Purpose" vs "Sporting Purpose" terminology was because Franchi changed it to be more press-friendly. As far as I knew, they were the same damn gun. Also, anon editor; 9 pounds doesn't look like much on paper, but you compared it to a much larger weapon. Go ahead, pick up a SPAS-12 and try not to feel revolted by the weight. I can also assume that you've never tried operating the "controls" on one. It's like Franchi would rather you never be able to even pump the damn thing. (sorry, MPM08, I don't ''own'' one either, but I did get the... "privilege"... to try one out).--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 15:12, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

::- I've read plenty of stuff about the SPAS, and from what I gather, the overall quality and practicality of the gun is questionable at best. I've read several things and notes, some good and some bad, and 'seems questionable' is the overall opinion I make. I won't ever have a valid personal opinion of my own until I try one out for myself - and until then, I will speak with no certainty of any kind about the SPAS. I will say that the others have a point about the weight though - 9 lbs is actually quite heavy for a shoulder-arm, especially for one you might have to lug around for a while. Nonetheless, nobody's trying to discount you because you like them. I think it does look cool and awesome, and like it to that extent myself. But I think the same way about a number of guns, some of which are no better than the SPAS in terms of practical use. Good aesthetics is nice but it doesn't automatically equal a great firearm. Like you, I'd still like to handle one, if only to see for myself whether or not it is that bad. In the end, I will give MPM's word some considerable weight, as the man has handled more firearms than I can even count (and indeed owns about that many). To Franchi's credit, I will give them a bit of a break for trying to be somewhat innovative. Even if it didn't work all that well in the case of the SPAS, it helped pave the way for the Benelli M3 and probably helped some other concepts as well that do work. But overall, in a practical sense, the weapon is not the most desirable from what I've read. Again, that's my own view though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:23, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks StanTheMan my head was about to explode. :) I am diffidently giving MPM's word some considerable weight. Frankly, I don't give a damn about weight. A fully kited M16A4 or other like assault rifles weighs 10 pounds or even more, a milled receiver AK-47 type III weighs over 10 pounds, and a Thompson Sub Machine Gun weighs almost 14 pounds! I don't even know how much an AA12 weighs, 10 to 16 pounds. revolted by the weight, please. And I can't sign because I don't have an account, and I don't know if I want one anymore, because every gun page I go on everybody hates every gun, the 92FS, 1911, USP, G36, MP5, Tommy Gun etc. God the SPAS 12 isn't like the L85A1 or something.

Look, the SPAS is an awful weapon. the Irish Army Rangers figured that out pretty quick and booted it in favor of the Benelli M3T. the Striker and protecta are meant for lightning assault and ambushes. USAS is a very well made shotgun. the High Standards Model 10A is a very innovative shotgun. the Saiga 12K is the BEST shotgun in my mind, Semi Auto, Magazine Fed, Reliable and light. it is much better than the SPAS. i can think of nearly 15+ shotguns that would beet the SPAS in nearly any category. and by the way Badassness is not a real category-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
:I thought people gave up SPAS 12 because it was "big and heavy" not because it was unreliable. Kinda like the Navy SEALs gave up the Mark. 23 because it was "big and heavy".

no, the SPAS was dumped because the IAR decided it was unreliable and not worth the price. then the adopted by the M3t. BTW you right about the MK23 but that was a reliable pistol. plus the P226, the MK23 replacement held more ammo. which was good for Log Range Recon patrols.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Talk:Franchi SPAS-12

2010-09-24T18:49:42Z

SargeOverkill:

User talk:SargeOverkill

2010-09-24T00:40:33Z

SargeOverkill: /* thanks! */

== Adding guns to Burn Notice ==

When adding new weapons to [[Burn Notice]], please follow the process that's been established on the page: please state what season and what episode the weapon was seen in (you can look up on IMDB if you need to find the season and episode name" and hyperlink the weapon name. Take a look below for the proper format:

==SCAR-L==
An [[FN SCAR-L]] is used by one of Matt Reece's thugs in Season 4's "Guilty as Charged". It's used when when Michael beats down the thug, causing the weapon to go flying in the air.
[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|Third-Generation FN SCAR-L, 5.56x45mm]]

If you don't have a screenshot of the show, that's okay as long as you put the stock shot of the weapon (which you did). Thanks for your cooperation. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:26, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem
BTW the episode it is in is "Center of the Storm"

==thanks!==

I appreciate the help! The page was in need of improvement, and I'm glad you stepped up to the plate. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:50, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem. I had been browsing around for a while and got annoyed that ever AW was listed as an L96. I was glad to help though.

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-24T00:37:07Z

SargeOverkill: /* KS-23 */

This game has a cold war look to it

==Just a thought==
Don't wet your pants at me here, but the final mission might be in the future, which would explain the Anachrostic weapons in the game.. like how in COD: MW there was "all Ghillied up", a mission in the past--[[User:SargeOverkill]]

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

It's an Intermediate rifle, like the P90 or MP7A1, slightly smaller caliber but with an effective range between a rifle's range and a sub gun's range.
:No, that is an incorrect comparison. The AK-74U is just a compact rifle since it fires an assault rifle round, not an assault rifle "styled" rifle. The P90 and the MP7 are designed from the ground up to be PDWs that fired ammo that are necked down rifle rounds instead of pistol rounds designed with the same armor piercing power as the full size rifle. It's like the Colt Model 733 or the 933 or any of the other shorten assault rifle variants. A submachine gun is always compared to weapons that fire pistol caliber ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

But weapons like the SAM-R use the same caliber as 933 and 733, 5.56x45, and the SAM-R is used as a DMR. i doubt the 5.45x39 could be a marksman rifle cartridge. even though its longer than the 5.7 or 4.6, its range and accuracy are not that of a true assault rifle.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.
Some people are still saying it could be WASR-2. It's not a WASR-2. WASR-2's are new production (within the past few years) rifles from Romania made ONLY for semi-automatic use and for importation into the US. There's no way on God's green earth that the rifle in game is a WASR-2.

More than likely this is just an AK-47 with an incorrectly modeled mag. They ARE modeling these things after airsoft guns ya know.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Grenade launchers are balanced, mininum detonation range, slow reload, not very accurate (need to arc) only 2 rounds, and besides, use it to take down campers.

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Not to mention it's impossible to actually fire one with live rounds. -Mandaloin

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:While looking at the Create-a-class 2.0 vid shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzSImy-xm4, I found it rather odd for the choice that Treyarch was going with on the weapon selection for the pistols at the 0:23 mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to place the Makarov PM as the starting pistol because of it's weak 9x18mm cartridge? I'd personally would have liked to see it like this:

*Makarov PM
*ASP
*1911
*Colt Python
*CZ75

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::The guns don't make sense at all, not just because of the era. I mean flamethrower attachments, handheld miniguns, the same rear sight on many guns, 20-round mags holding 30 rounds, semi-auto shotguns impossibly cycling with dragonsbreath ammo. Before MW2 the Call of Duty series was known for its accuracy and attention to how the guns really work, as well as the weapons for the time periods the games take place in. And GunGunGun has a point, it's just going to be the same chaotic multiplayer as MW2, a bunch of stoners and kids making themselves feel better by corner camping, tubing, and quickscoping. Treyarch only seems to have done things to promote those playing techniques, not discourage them like they should. -Mandaloin
::: Cry some more then? It's pretty obvious that you don't like the gameplay style. There are many, MANY gamers out there that would disagree with your tastes, and those are the ones that Treyarch is aiming to please (along with those on the fence over some of MW2s perks/killstreaks which were changed for the better). So what if it's not all realistic, the key point in a video game is if it's any fun to play or not. Last I checked, I couldn't actually survive crashing a Ferrari at 100MPh at Laguna Seca either, but it is sure as hell fun to play a game that allows me to get back up and try again without it being "game over" for me. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Meh, quit complaining, it's a video game. If you want realism go play ARMA or Operation Flashpoint. It does look better than MW2, that I will say. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I just love how people can criticize a game, when yet, they haven't even played it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 21:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I just love how people keep saying that. We don't have to play it to criticize what we've already seen of it. -Mandaloin
:: Yeah, you kinda do. If you have not actually sat down and played this game, you're only assuming it's gonna be bad by just looking at it. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well whatdaya know, the one I missed. Good find. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

They are Skorpians in 9x18mm without the stocks. Looks awesome to me.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

: We've already seen what the Skorpions look like, these look alot like that OTs-02 Kiparis --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 00:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:I presume the KS-23 is likely to have heavy recoil, small capacity (3 rounds) and a delay between shots. Also can't the KS-23 also function as a Grenade launcher as well firing firing a variety of shells such as Tear Gass, Flash Bang and White Phosphorous? I would marry Treyarch if they finally added Slugs to this baby! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Draco i think your my new friend. JK. i always wondered why they never put chokes or slugs as attachments for guns in video games.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a AR-18 but don't we have the full assault rifle list?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: It's not an AR-18, the recievers don't match. It looks more like the 63, although it doesn't appear to have the ventilated barrel housing. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

After actually looking at a 63, this gun looks like it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Stoner63-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stoner 63 in rifle and LMG configuration.]]
[[Image:COD7Stonerpossible.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a screencap from gameplay footage of the possible Stoner 63. Compared to the stock image I'd say it is.]] . - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reflex sights==
Just wondering about the reflex sights, were they even developed back during the periods the game is set in? Another thing I was curious about is that the M4 Spectre in the list shows it having a reflex mounted on it. While it is using a side-mount, wouldn't the stock get in the way if you try to fold/unfold it since it folds to the top of the gun?--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
: '''1,''' Yeah, i am almost sure reflex sight existed during cold war. There is even patent on internet, dating it into seventies.
: '''2,''' All SMG´s have apparently stocks removed for some reason. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Not exactly on topic==
Alright, I am having a pretty bad day with dealing all the crap my professors are throwing at me and then my roommate says something that is kinda pissing me off so I am gonna rant a little bit. Last night(this early morning actually, around 1), he decided not to do his homework and decided to watch a show about snipers and the amazing feats they pulled off including one about Hatchcock. It was pretty interesting until he ruined it after watching a sniper take out VietCongs using kentucky windage with his scoped (now busted) m14 after his helo was shot down by saying, "So what, I don't see how that is impressive, I can do that all the time in Modern Warfare 2." Now he wants to go buy Black Ops when it comes out because he wants to "pwn some noobs" and all the feature look really realistic just like in MW2. He goes on to say that he wants to become a Ranger because he thinks it is easy enough since he is smart since he was on a debate team, ran for state assembly, etc. and strong because he can do MMA and finishes that with he can drink a lot beer. I give him credit for having the balls to join the Rangers but at the same time, it feels like he is insulting them. Sorry for writing all this but I was having a shitty day and just had to let is all out and I figured it since he was talking of COD, that I would put it here. Alright, rant over, feeling much better now. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, is actual real military service gonna shit on his cereal, lets see just how easy pwning noobs is when your actually getting shot at, oh and apparently theres this thing called recoil in reality, suprising i know. Oh and no respawns either. On an actual related note this game is gonna suck, I do love the return of the 1911 to COD i just can forgive the erronious amounts of just horrendous anacronisms, and the flamethrower undermount is so retarded --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a fun idea, hand a CoD fanboy an AR-15 with the bolt locked back, hand them a magazine, and tell them to fire it. See how long it takes them to realize that the weapon isn't magically ready to fire just because you slap in a fresh magazine. You get five points for every ten seconds it takes before they realize what the bolt catch is. You get bonus points if they pull the charging handle.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 06:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Oh and pop that elusive saftey on too, just for good measure.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 09:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they would give the back stock a flat slap after loading a fresh mag and charged the gun like a real badass.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better would be actually getting through the first phase of basic to even hold a weapon.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be even more surprised to find a gamer doing a proper tactical reload, instead of letting a mag drop to the ground and becoming confused as to why it doesn't magically appear back in his pouches.

==Kinda liking the weapons list==

Well, they are things you never see in other games, although the awp and famas and spas12 can go, and id love the a1 to be full auto. But, a revovler that makes sense, old school submachine guns, a pump action grenade launcher its kind of cool.

I do wish they didn't decided the nearly the same weapons from the other MW series like the AUG, SPAS-12, or the MP5K. They could have picked other pump action shotguns like the Remington 870, or another weapon aside from the MP5K. They should have stuck with the full size MP5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do have the Ithaca 37. And at least the AUG is a rifle and not a LMG in this one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I do know most of these guns really shouldn't exist but you can believe I will have a ton of fun with the under-barrel flamethrower with a smily face reflex sight on the G11(they better not mess up the G11).--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

At this moment, I am not bothered about weapons that don't exist at the time, but more on original choices. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda of agree with you there, sorta disappointed though that they made the M16A1 burst fire in Multiplayer. Though it's hard to say exactly when all these guns appear, while yes we were told it was starting in Vietnam but IT could possibly star in other timezones too. From what I've gathered, you play as multiple characters so it's possible you could play as multiple characters in different time periods, 1 in Vietnam, another in Cold War and maybe a few fictional war zones in the early 2000's [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, it seems that original M16 without forward assist is in game. Anyway - As far as i know M16A1 fired in 3-round bursts, no ?
:::The A1 is full-auto. The A2 and A4 variants fire bursts. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 10:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont like how they use the correct 20 round mag model but make it hold 30. Hopefully the burst/30 rounds is online only, like in cod 4 where the m16 was full auto SP but burst MP.

== CZ75 ==

JUst curious, does anyone think that the CZ-75 might be the Automatic version of the weapon. Granted Treyarch wasn't going to add Machine Pistols but since it's the last handgun in the list and it costs 750 credits would it be possible? I mean Bad Company 2 had their 93R as their last unlock which was a machine pistol [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well, it doesnt have to be automatic. CZ-75 is superior to all other handguns from list in real life.( maybe besides Colt Python ) - Its better than Makarov, ASP and even M1911 in all "stats" . Its probably best 9mm handgun.

::Not too sure as to how it would be better than a .45 caliber 1911. I can see it being better than the ASP or Makarov due to their small magazines of 7-8 rounds compared to the 75's 16 (9mm). Of course it does open the slight possibility that an Automatic conversion kit is available as an attachment [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Its not just about calibre or mag capacity. CZ-75 is more accurate, bullet is faster and i think its lighter. Anyway - Its sure that heavier cartrigde is allways better :) But i would take CZ75 to combat instead of M1911.

:Maybe the developers just read a lot of Gunsmith Cats, and took Rally's speech to heart, but the possibility that it may be an automatic makes me sigh. I hope it isn't.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, The CZ-75 is not more accurate than a 1911
Secondly, there is no "best" 9x19 millimeter pistol, its all personal preference,
Thirdly, the .45 is a better combat round due to its lager grain bullet and more dispersion of energy on contact,
and Lastly, while caliber is not the most important factor, the .45 A.C.P is superior to the 9x19mm because the 9 is a small lightweight bullet, while the .45 is a large heavyweight bullet.
P.S. sign your posts.
~~ PunisherDave
: Well, i tested both CZ75 and 1911. I was doing better with CZ. Anyway - I would take it into combat because of for example mag size. And 9mm bullets are way much more common... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Military 1911s almost universally sucked, with ultra loose fitting parts and 7 pound triggers, and nearly useless sights. 1911s in the civilian world, or the uber built special forces 1911, are nice. But your average GI 1911....not so. Im sure a cz75 would kick its ass in accuracy and reliability if you wanted to use more than ball ammo.
~~k9870
: Ágreed. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Those old 1911's had one thing going for them though, there was a hell of a lot of abuse you could put them through before they malfunctioned. Reliability is a factor. I'm not saying the CZ isn't reliable though, don't get me wrong. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 17:24, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It was once said "the colt 45 will drop a charging bull dead in its tracks, but good luck hitting it.

Haha, while I do know (note how I'm just basing what I say off of research, so I am open to corrections. Hopefully one day I can fire a 1911 and CZ to really know the differences)that the old GI 1911's were often maligned for their lack of accuracy, I've also heard people say it isn't that big of a deal considering that it is a handgun. In a military capacity, the pistol is there when shit gets up close and personal and you need to defend yourself. When the guy is close enough that you can see the whites of his eyes, I'm sure you're not gonna have to be a deadeye to land shots on target. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 18:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:My buddy's father was a Marine in Vietnam, and at least according to him, a lot had to do with the fact that their M1911s were just really old and worn. I would think that WWII production of M1911s would've been more enough to supply US forces for decades. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:29, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Ive heard they manuactured no new 1911s after ww2, and that they just swapped parts, keeping frame and slide. They were loose fitting, and rattled in holsters. a 7 pound single action trigger, and the sights are just awful, especially against a dark background, cheap 3 dot sights would be better. problem is when people think "1911" they think of the sweet modern ones. To be fair, military berettas are beat to hell too, and have known countless people to say the sights were misaligned, magazines had weak springs, etc.
The cz-75 though, this is the first time ive seen it in a game, its pretty cool. I cant wait to use it, im sick of the beretta being the staple 9mm.
-k9870

Misaliged sights are from them getting knocked around and is easily fixed, worn mag springs is through use and they are easily replaced.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It is true that no new 1911's were purchased after World War 2. The same .45's that were on G.I's hips in Europe and The Pacific were being carried by U.S troops during the Gulf War in the 1990's. I've heard that the quality of the 1911's varied from gun to gun. Some were actually were in decent shape while others were just horrid. I don't believe they all suffered from the problems that K9870 is saying. Although I admit the standard sights on those guns are just awful, Most of the time I can't even make out the front post. A lot of soldiers I've read actually preferred a 1911 to the M9 and carried it when possible. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 22:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

==asp==

was the asp pistol any good or even used much? It seems the grips would be slippery and the sights are weird.
-k9879
:According to a random site I found, it wasn't used much. Originally, only 100 were produced, and if they are still produced, they are produced only on a pistol-by-pistol basis by custom gunsmiths or shops or something along those lines. The grips were smooth because the original designer intended it to be the ultimate concealed carry pistol, and the smooth grips helped this keeping the chance for the hand to snag on the grips while pulling, aiming, and firing to a minimum. In addition, the sights are weird but when aimed through, due to the design of the sight which employed fluorescent panels, would point at the target when properly aligned, making it easier to shoot reflexively. -Chris Hun7er 23:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

It is a S&W Model 39 which was a really good pistol. It looks as though its in the game because of the size of the Makarov. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:34, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

User talk:MT2008

2010-09-23T23:34:30Z

SargeOverkill: /* ARCTIC WARFARE */

==ARCTIC WARFARE==
My friend, i have done the job of describing the differences of the [[Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series]] check the discussion board of the page. i hope you appreciate my work.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== User 67.183.66.44 ==
It is better to block this idiot for an infinite period of time, since just as his blocking period expired he has started making his usual changes, Take for example, he added the pistol and machine pistol category to full-sized SMGs like Spectre M4 and Jatimatic.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 08:56, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

==S&W 4500==
I recently combined the smith & wesson 4505, 4506, 4516, and 4566 articles into one. I was told to contact an administrator to see about removing the old individual pages if the change is considered acceptable. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
:: (What I wrote to ANONYMOUS) I just banned an IP address (person did not log in as user Anonymous) for wholesale removal of data from three S&W pages. That is NOT the way to do it. If this is YOU (i.e. Anonymous User), I will lift the ban, but you CREATE the new page first and then cut & paste the old data AND then put a note at the TOP of the old page explaining what you did. Suddenly BLANK Pages by unknown IP addresses usually AUTOMATICALLY put up a big red flag. If that is you, ALWAYS log in before you do stuff like that. Unknown IP address get automatically banned for that. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:43, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

== The Stand ==

Why so snarky? The last photo does appear to be some type of folding stock attached to the weapon. And why did you not either send me a message on my page or add to the discussion page for the movie? I don't mind a debate but I'm puzzled by your tone. Have I done something to you lately? I was under the impression that we strove for some type of polite excahnges here. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Sure I understand how that goes.We all get tired and sometimes come across in wasy that we didn't intend. Not a problem. I thought I saw a folded stock in the last screecap, but I'll change it to the 89 model.I'm not a big MP5 guy. More into S&W revolvers. Thanks. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:52, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

==I am back again==

Hey Matt, Things have been slow so I have to work twice as hard to make ends meet. The Industry has been off as of late but did work on some TV shows. Shop work is slowly coming on line so that will be nice. I like the new things going on with the website looks good. [[User:ritwikbmca|ritwikbmca]] new templates look great don't know if the rest of the admins had agreed on them as standard. I have been hearing from others in the Industry about the site most good some feel that there are some errors that need to be corrected. I did find out that some film archivist are looking at the site to very weapons and props used in the films which is very cool. A couple have stated we should think about adding studios to the show info so it can be used as a cross reference. I believe that no matter what people believe that IMFDB will be similar to IMDB on the information it has. I have other show that I have screen-capped and hope to post some more this week and go back through others to check them of errors. -[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

==Buying a SIG==
I may be looking into getting a SIG P220 (45acp). At the gun shop where I bought a S&W 4505 (same as your 4506 but blued, carbon steel). After the 3 day waiting period is up on the 4505, I'm going to take my Desert Eagle up there and see what they'll give me for it. The SIG in question is a two tone model, nickel side, black frame. It had a better grip than the 4505 but it was $50 more (listed at $600) and wasn't as clean as the 4505. Are the pre '96 stamped slide models the best to get and is there anything else I should look for? Is there anything else negative about the post '96 models other than the slide weight? --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:23, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for the response, very informative. No problem with it being long either. Cleared up a lot of questions. I'm pretty sure it had the older style plastic grips. I don't think it had nickel controls either just the slide. I'll bring the date list with me and check. I didn't really give it a good look over. I just saw that was as clean as the 4505. I went into the gun shop just to see what they had, didn't plan on buying anything. I saw that 4505, you don't ever see them just the 4506 models. That had some P226's too, didn't really look at them. I already have a few nines and was wanting to get some .45's. If the Desert Eagle was a .44 I would keep it, my S&W 586 takes care of my .357 needs. If the SIG isn't up to par I get something else and look into getting one later. Thanks for the help. Also I considered trying to buy your 4506, but since it's a pain for you to ship out of state, I went local. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:34, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

::No SIG for me. Gun shop wanted to give me $500 for the Desert Eagle. I didn't handle the SIG again. But I was wrong about the grips. Had the newer style. I'll get a SIG later. I'm very pleased with the 4505. I just wish the grip had a little swell on the sides to keep it from being so flat. I'll post some pics on the forum later. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:32, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

==User 67.183.66.44==
He's back. I've had to fix almost a dozen pages on which he did edits. For one thing, he adds custom gun pics to the main gun pages, and then he doesn't even format it correctly. WTF? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:10, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

==Seecamp LWS-32==
I replaced the image of the Seecamp from Weapon Specialists LTD with one from my own inventory. At least it's one of our own copyrighted images. Hope you like it. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:SeecampLWS-32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Seecamp LWS-32 pocket pistol - 32 acp]]

==User 67.183.66.44 ==
I just had to to block him AGAIN for one month. I'm tempted to permanently ban him. Literally the MOMENT that his ban expired, he started making TONS of changes, most of which were stupid and required fixing. Thoughts? Should this guy get a longer ban? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:25, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Afghan Breakdown==
In regards to your question I'm afraid there hasn't been a version of Afghan Breakdown released with English subtitles, officially or otherwise. I tried looking for them when I originally watched the movie and found that the torrented version was Italian-dubbed while the only available subtitles were Polish. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 02:32, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

==So are you happy now?==
I'll get one of the Canuck Flat top soon.... ;)
[[Image:Colt715 C7Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt 715 aka Canadian C7 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Unlike the real C7, this has an A1 flash hider for the sake of a full 'flower' flash pattern]]
[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:40, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==BTW: More pics ;) ==
I've been replacing a bunch of the lame pics. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:MPIKM72Wood.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|East German AKM - MPi-KM-72 Transitional Rifle - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Savage-Stevens-311-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Savage Stevens 311A Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:M1A1Carbine.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M1A1 Paratrooper Carbine - .30 Carbine]]
[[Image:Ruger10 22.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Ruger 10/22 (Pre-2005 Model) - .22 LR ]]
[[Image:ColtSAA HandOfGod.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Colt Single Action Army Fast Draw Model "Hand of God" - .45 LC]]
[[Image:Smith&Wesson-Model-19.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 19]]
[[Image:RossiModel851.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Rossi Model 851 Revolver - .38 Special]]
[[Image:CharterArmsUnderCover70s.jpg‎‎|thumb|none|300px|1970s era Charter Arms Undercover with 3" barrel - .38 Special]]

==There's no pleasing you ;) ==
So are all the Canadian shows have the Oly grip on them? Are you sure? If they have the A2 style pistol grip, then it's essentially the same rifle. Also the 715 is not mine so I won't be getting that back to photograph any time soon. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:29, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==What about Stargate and other shows?==
There are TONS of TV shows filmed in Canada and I'm not sure that they use the Oly grip. I 'think' Seven days had the A2 grip and SG1 had the A2 grip sometimes. Let me know if ALL of the Canadian shows have the Oly grip, but I am sure I've seen other lowers on the guns in the past. I will try to get the rifle upper back and film it on an Oly lower. YOU KNOW I'm the ONLY IMFDB member who bothers to do that! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:57, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==Deleting Frankengun pics==
I just deleted another one of my pics 'modified' by a member. I don't mind placeholders but the noobs don't give accreditation so I delete them as soon as I see them. People doing 'frankengun' chop jobs DE-motivates me to go out and photograph the real guns, and we don't want THAT to happen. :) I mean why bother trying to track down the real guns from HEAT if some guy is going to PS Franken gun another gun? If it looks decent enough the reason and motivation for me to take the time (and irritate my fellow armorers) becomes less and less compelling. Thoughts? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:57, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==C7 stuff==
I was going to overwrite your old C7 shot with this new image, but then I realized that the naming nomenclature would be wrong and give the wrong impression (i.e. naming the file c7 when the rifle is a 715). I am looking forward to fixing the UGLY pics of the Diemaco section of the M16 page soon. Just a thought regarding a movie page, I don't think the rifles in [[Operation Dumbo Drop]] are 715s. Those 715 uppers were really prevalent in the 1990s when the supply of original M16A1 uppers dried up and everyone stopped making them and went to the A2 uppers. A lot of guys who wanted the M16A1 look but didn't have an A1 gun were buying what we all called 'The Canadian A1 upper' to build up their guns. So it's a regular franken gun with a straight ring and light barrel that happens to have a 715 upper receiver. It's the real life franken guns that trips us up. AR parts from so many manufacturers are so prevalent that we can be seeing Bushmaster or DPMS or Eagle Arms (now defunct) or Pac West guns all over the place. I remember that Colt was NOT selling their lower receivers (assholes) before the first Clinton ban, but everyone else was. I bought over 30 Pac West receivers and built them up into AR15 variants before the first AW ban. They were about $55.00 (and then jumped up to $400 just before the ban.). Just a note. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:32, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==Colt cowards==
They were one of the first ones to CAVE when the gun control fanatics started their jihad against gun owners, starting with the Stockton shooting in Feb 1989 all the way to the passage of the Clinton AW ban in 1994. Colt SOLD complete emasculated rifles with no bayonet lug and renamed receivers. Colt refused to sell lower receivers upon which to build custom guns. But that's what armorers wanted. We swap out uppers all the time. So unless the armory (like Stembridge, and later CW who picked up a lot of their stuff) bought all their guns in the 1970s and 1980s, from Colt, the most prevalent build up guns would be by other manufacturers. IN the early 1990s Colt rifles were more expensive than many competitors and also harder to find. Colt, IMHO, is the American H&K ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:04, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==715 photo==
Just talked to the owner about getting the barreled upper for a shoot. He will be available in about 2 weeks. Also I discovered during our conversation. ((I didn't look that closely at the gun because it was a really quick shoot that I had to do in about 3 minutes! Someone put the gun against the white background and I lit it and click off about a dozen shots from that angle only and off it went))... that it was a full Colt 715 kit but mounted on a pre-1989 Bushmaster XM15-A2 lower that was legally converted to full auto fire from a civilian receiver (i.e. a post 86 sample). There are small 'marking' differences, i.e. the full auto setting word was stamped on LATER. Does that make a difference? Or should I reshoot the entire gun with a Colt lower receiver? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:51, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==Got an easy fix for the 715==
The Factory Colt 715 has no select fire markings on the right side of the gun. I can just 'clone' out the markings, though I don't like to do that, (I use Photoshop just to remove SNs if needed, scratches, cracks, oil stains, weird reflections, etc. I try not to fundamentally change the look of the gun, just to 'clean it up'). But I can clone out the Bushmaster Selector markings and keep it blank. Thus for all intents and purposes, it looks like a Colt 715 lower from that side. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
::(EDIT) Done. I also cloned out a big fat THUMBPRINT that I left on the upper (oops!) hahahahaha. Don't want to pollute IMFDB's pics with that kinda stuff! :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:10, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

==SIG P228==
You know, I've been itching to replace that 228 with a better pic. That gun was dropped and in the middle of repair when I snapped a pic of it. The frame was scratched really bad (from a car stunt) and was repainted with black spray paint. It was NOT the best example to use. Should we let Joker keep his P228 pic until I can get a better screen used P228 sample? At the least, it will be a reminder for me to get a new P228 pic. Thoughts? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:28, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:I opt to keep the beater P228 pic for now. It IS a screen used gun, but nothing big or eventful, mostly B-movies and I can't figure out where it was rented to. I will try to get a screen used P228 from a BIG MOVIE from CW hopefully soon. I will be out of town for a WW2 documentary shoot for NATGEO in the South Pacific again (I leave on wed), so I will not be able to screencap or take pics (only some blank firing Pistols of which IMFDB already has the pics for and a BUNCH of rubber Arisakas and garands for some reenactments for the documentary film crew). I will be back 1st week of April. I will be on here on IMFDB, though via wi fi from the lap top from the hotel. If we get rained out, you'll be seeing me here on IMFDB! hahahaha. best regards [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:38, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
==Desert Eagle==
Great work on the page. :) Let me know what you need help on. I think my brother has Lucky Number Slevin. So I'll check and see if the model can be determined. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:52, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah I could give two shits about the video game junk too. Most of them will probably Mark XIX. The grid pattern isn't necessary unless it's a long list. But anyway I'll help what I can. Also that custom Eagle you just uploaded is a USA built one. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:06, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I would do, let the hardcore gamers sort that crap out if they care so much.(Very few would be Mark VII) Also even though there wouldn't be any blank converted Eagles in the .440 Cor-Bon caliber I added it to the specifications to be more accurate.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:27, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the .440 version didn't have the flutes. Also I'm throwing a wrench here. But I think the early Mark XIX models at least in the .44 Magnum may not have had fluted barrels. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:58, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:BSDesertEagle-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here we can see the .44 stamp on the other Russian's Desert Eagle Mark XIX. His has a chrome barrel and frame with a black slide.]]
[[Image:44barrel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Why do they prefer the .50 AE? Does it cycle better than the .357 and .44 because you can get a heavier powder charge? Or I'm wondering if the .50 isn't rimmed like the .357 and .44 makes it easier. All this talk about Eagles makes me what to go shoot mine.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:28, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

:I helped identify Desert Eagles appearing in animes and a few video games. Even after this a lot of video games are left, some of which cannot be identified since either those pages have no screencaps to identify the model or the Desert Eagles appearing in them have components of Mark I,VII,XIX mixed together!. I also deleted some video games, films, anime and television series appearing in the page which appeared in red.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 06:21, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

==Blanks==
It took them a while to get .45 1911's to cycle blanks also. It seems like it would be tough to get a DE to cycle reliable with blanks. Don't know if you handled one and racked the slide. (Fucking heavy). I almost smacked myself in the face after shooting mine and then switching to a Hi-power. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:01, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

:I'll have to search the forum and read your Desert Eagle story. The .357 is the biggest handgun caliber I have shot. I don't go shooting with anyone else besides my dad, so I don't get to shoot anyone else guns. I'd like to shoot a .50 just for the experience. You can't trust internet gun users about gun recoil.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

No it's fine like it is, thanks though. They can click on the image and see who it belongs to. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Also I think I'm going to have a problem with a user on the [[Death Sentence]] page. He made some okay edits. But he took one of my images off the page and wrote he used different gun and renamed some of the image files so they ended not showing up. (I hope I didn't confuse you) --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Desert Eagle==
I'll be adding the template to the page. Can you help me with it?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:07, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

== Boondocks Saints 2 ==

Oh alright, I'll leave it to you. One less thing on my to do list. I'll go work on Ninja Assassin. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== screencapping ==

Well I need some help cause I have no idea how to work the screen capture feature on VLC [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

==delete==
Need this file deleted, uploaded it by accident, when I should have been uploading over an existing file. Thanks --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:FDTD-00115.jpg

==From Dusk Till Dawn==
Thanks. The page wasn't really missing any screencaps, but was lacking in good ones. Also I borrowed Lucky # Slevin, so I'll check out the DE used. I think the page is incomplete so I may end up capping it. Plan on adding some caps of the missing revolvers in [[The Killer]] too.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 00:05, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

==Mods & Stuff==
yeah, he was writing snarky sarcastic stuff. Sounds just like a kid. Personally I think some of our newer (foreign) members are 'young' based on their actions (and preferences). For one, I don't like spending time arguing why we should NOT have a section on suction cup arrows LOL! We always get some noob waltz in and start challenging the rules of IMFDB (Gee, why don't you guys start doing THIS instead?) Thankfully I've seen some of our experienced (and even some newer members who 'get it') step in and intervene. It's gratifying to see that we have members who follow the rules and enforce that amongst other members. :) the shoot was a mixed bag. It was really windy and stormy in the South pacific. Even though there was no rain, the wind gusts knocked me down several times. I'm only here for a few days. I leave for Rome for a shoot and then for a gig in Hong Kong. No I don't take any weapons with me ;) I only act in a paid advisory capacity. But depending on whether I can get internet access from wherever I'm at in the world, I may not be around for April-early May. We'll see. Sometimes the shoot days are so long, that I just crash at the end of the day. Anyway, I felt like I was the lone mod sometimes (but again, we have quite a few experienced standard members who are doing a good job of reigning in some of the wacky changes made by 'drive by members'. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:39, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

== Re: Model 733 ==

Thank you for clarifying this for me. While we're on the subject of the M16 series, would you mind if I went ahead and phased out the older Model 715 picture and deleted it in favor of MPM's pic? It's rather redundant to have two pictures of the same weapon, especially when one is significantly higher-quality than the other. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 19:44, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

==The Killer==
The replica HPs must have been used by the triads. There is one good view of a HP. It appears to be a Inglis, judging from the front sight and finger notch on slide. They were imported into China during WWII. Interestingly they put an A1 style birdcage flash hider on the Norinco 56. Any of the trivia stuff you learned please add to the page.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:TK-HP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This is during the gun buy.]]

Yeah I think that modified revolver may be a Taurus also. Since most of the fired revolvers are Taurus. There are some really good close ups of some of the guns. Makes iding them easy.Other than some text and one or two images that need to be uploaded over. I'm through with it.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==Disambiguation page==
I have created some disambiguation pages,eg, [[M3]] and [[Delta Force]] to improve page navigation in IMFDB. Considering the latter I used to hate when I typed to search the video game Delta Force when the site redirected me to the movie page Delta Force with the same name. So I am currently in the process of making disambiguation pages for pages with similar titles to make navigating pages easy. Ben41 asked me recieve the sysop's consent before undertaking this project.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 14:29, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

:I think we should keep the pictures in the disambiguation page atleast for the guns.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 06:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

==Lois & Clark: Tempus, Anyone?==
Where did you find the Gali AR? I couldn't find it, but is this the Gali AR (the one being waved by the man in the middle) in this screeencap? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 13:41, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Ruger-Mini-14LC.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

==RE:RE==
Thanks for the info. I was able to find more guns and a poster of guns in that episode. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 14:42, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

==General Information==
Shouldn't [[IMFDB Info - The History of M16s in Film and Television]] be added to GE? It's locked so reg users can't edit it.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 04:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Another thing, the purpose of the General Information category was so a glossary of firearm terms could be made up. Nobody has created one. Should it just be called Glossary or Glossary - Firearm Terms? I figure a section for gun types, action, malfunction. I'm not sure what else. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:17, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I added it to general information category. MPM didn't want anyone else messing with that page is the reason why it was protected. Probably best to change it back to that.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 00:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

:What about a page for all gun related [[Abbreviations|abbreviations]].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 06:50, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

==Beretta==
Sure. I can do that. By the way I have no idea what type of M16/AR15 they are using in [[Jesse Stone: Death in Paradise]]. Whne I was in the Army we had the M16A1, M16A2 and the M4 carbine. Truth be told I've stopped trying to follow all the different variations. So I will leave it to you or somebody else to figure out. Thanks. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:20, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks on the M4 info. I'll get that added. As you've probably gathered over the past few months my strength is in revolvers and the older firearms. The new stuff I can identify, but all the variants leave me cold. I think I stopped paying attention around 1995. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:29, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

== User talk:99.12.124.133 ==

I hate to report this, but this user keeps creating pages with only a minimal amount of information and I'm not sure what to do. I hate to have to go and fix every page this user makes. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

== ''Andromeda Strain'' ==

Thank you for your additions to ''[[Andromeda Strain, The (2008 Miniseries)|The Andromeda Strain]]''. I plan to rent & cap this sometime in the near future, but the extra work on the page is appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 19:10, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you for capping this as well. I was planning to cap it myself, but the help is again appreciated. One minor note though; the name of the M1126 APC is spelled 'Stryker', like the name, not with an I. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 00:09, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

==Are you psychic? Part deax==
Again within SECONDS of me uploading a hero gun pic, you comment. Your Jedi Mind powers are starting to freak me out. I just flew back into the US this morning and I'm trying to adjust to the time zone change again. I'm also trying to fix the WWS page since I never liked the overdoing of the screencaps on that page. It held the record at one time, 36 shots of the same gun in one section. Ben41 and I am working on it since it is one of the most viewed pages on IMFDB. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:05, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

==AKs and Canucks==
Those AKs built for We Were Soldiers were built in 2002, so they could not have been in anything prior to that. They were built because the filmmakers, upon learning what we all know about Type 56s, etc. opted to have tons of real milled receiver guns built for the film's authenticity. The last time I saw them, they were the same color (i.e. wood furniture) so they're pretty easy to spot. As for replacing the real AK-47 pic, I'm trying to get a pic of a real example from an Army Museum, so that we have a real Soviet one for all those film entries that were done overseas over the years. I hate those jacked Type 1-3 examples, for one they don't represent what was actually a production model and they're also readily recognizable jacked images. But since the WWS AKs had that weird wood, I wouldn't replace the other pics just yet.

''BTW, I finally learned why Canadian movies and TV shows have so many Olympic Arms AR rifles''
....AND?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
mpm

== Heat ==
Thanks for the correction. I didn't realize I had put the Colt under the subgun category. I'm just going in and organizing some of the pages. I want to point out that I'm not changing any of the text or screencaps. But [[Heat]] and [[Ronin]] are some of our most viewed pages and they had different types of firearms scattered all over the page, Guess I'm just anal. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:38, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

== Virtuosity ==

I will take a look again at my screenshots to see if I have them. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 16:25, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==nice to see you back==
I'm going a little stir crazy here. A lot of the veteran mods are MIA. Good thing we have some really great vet users who are trying their best to improve the site. Hahaha. I just got the Farcry DVD but I see you already did it. :) Does that mean you're back? :)[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:58, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

== Armyguy277 user page ==
ok first of all the k4s were on the page becuse it was the clossest i could get to a C7/C8 and second WTF do you care it is my userpage --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:58, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
PS how do you tumb nail --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:58, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

==you da man!==
Now that I have some good pics of the gun, I have some chopped Type 56 barrels lying around here. I can put a post ban Type 56 front sight and an American Krinkov Muzzle brake on it. I have a messed up AK receiver that I do parts work on. Think I should build it? Don't know what to call it since it IS a 100% gunshop custom frankengun. Do you think calling it a Fake East German MPi-AKS-74NK is appropriate? I just thought it was the closest production AK variant to that monstrosity :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:59, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
==delete==
Need to delete this image, we already have an Inglis Hi-Power pic.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Browninghipower9mm.jpg
[[Image:Browninghipower9mm.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning Hi-Power - 9mm]]

[[Image:Armyguy277]]
ok thanks

==HK21==
I think HK21 needs its own page since it has three-four variants of its own (HK11,HK23,HK13,GR9). What do you think?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:25, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:BTW we should create a set of rules stating whether a gun should demand its own page or be redirected to another page for a gun from which the former gun was derived. Earlier there were many controversies regarding these redirects (though the FPK/PSL thing was my fault, it was actually a AK style receiver on close inspection) and these set of rules will define the place where a gun actually belongs to. For example, like the HK21 the PSG-1 is a modified G3 and happens to be in the G3 page, but it has a sub variant of its own (the MSG-90) and I believe it should have its own , separate page. And by doing this, pages like the AK-47, M16 and G3 will be brief in size too.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== New Weapons Infobox Template ==
I just created a [[Template:Infobox Weapon|‎new weapons infobox]] template. Its just a modified version of the previous templates put together (since I don't know how to create one from scratch). It is only in the prototype stage and I will request help from other members, who know more about creating these templates.What do you think about the template? Should there be any new features?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

==Carbines, Repeating Rifles==
I'm getting confused with repeating rifles and carbines and I am having trouble sorting out repeating rifles and carbines in [[Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman|Lois & Clark]]. Here's some questions I have:
*1. Should carbines and lever-action repeating rifles go in the rifle section?
*2. Are semi-auto carbines like the [[Ruger Mini-14]] considered as rifles or assault rifles?
*3. Are carbines the same as rifles?

I hope I'll be able to sort them out once I find out about carbines and lever-action repeating rifles. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 22:49, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

==RE:==
I just created a separate page for the HK LMGs-
[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_series_machine_guns]
As for the template, I'm trying to take the extra space in consideration and add more IMFDB specific content to it.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

==Delete list==

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_2_frame_10157%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Punisher_M1911a.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_16_frame_75585%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_19_frame_88904%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_16_frame_73433%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_16_frame_73942%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Punisher_ShotgunA.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Punisher_AcetyleneGunA.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_19_frame_91493%29.jpg

Sorry about the long list. I use to upload over existing caps, but when there are several contributors and they label differently. It's more trouble than it's worth to sort.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:11, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

==Real-Time Strategy Computer Games Allowed?==
I was wondering if strategy games are allowed. There are some that have real weapons (such as Company of Heroes, which I'll try to do) and players can just zoom in to get good shots of the guns. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:08, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

== Re: Lethal Weapon S&W ==

I was looking at the ''[[Lethal Weapon 2]]'' page not long ago and saw that the S&W was changed from a 5906 to a 659. I don't remember where I saw it (one of the discussion pages I think) but someone had wrote that the 5906 in Lethal Weapon 2 couldn't be possible at that time period so it had to be a 659. And then, seeing as Murtaugh used what I think was the same gun in ''[[Lethal Weapon 3]]'', that's why I thought it was a 659. But seeing as you've just provided better evidence, I'll change it back lol. My mistake. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 18:08, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

==Should I have blocked this guy?==
He's an anonymous IP address and all he did was slowly, bit by bit, delete the entire discussion page of the VG. It struck me as weird, but I could be tired and cranky so I thought I would asked a few other Mods to see if I overreacted. I can always life the ban.
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/72.9.28.64
[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:16, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

==delete page==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Shoot_Em_Up

Someone started this talk page and had Russian language in it, I cleared it. But still needs to be deleted. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

==SIG cont.==
I checked that SIG out at the gun shop again. They had dropped the price from $600 to $570. But after looking over it better, all over the nickel slide, tiny spots of the finish are missing. Pretty poor gun. They have an all black one a little cheaper but it wasn't much better.

I found one on gun broker I really like for $575. Here is the description "Sig P220, West German Manuf. This Sig has been refinished by, CCR / Cummings Custom Refinish. There are no issues and was in Excellent Condition prior to Refinish as it is now, low round count and all Orginal factory parts."

pics.

[[Image:SIG220-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:SIG220-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

It's technically reverse two-tone by SIG standards, but norm for others. It's a $160 for the refinish job, not to mention shipping. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

:I've bought a few older guns off GB and I haven't had any problems. (knock on wood) Generally if the gun was really beat up prior to refinishing, it would still show. Also the grips should actually be the checkered style right? --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

The all black P220 at the gun shop had Hogue finger groove grips, they were much too big for me. The two-tone had the pebble grain and it felt just right. The non finger groove Hogue's may be okay. A few hours before the two-tone SIG above goes out, there's an all black West German one with factory box, papers and two mags. It's in very good condition. It's at $350 right now, I may try to get it, depends on how crazy the bidding gets. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:23, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:SIG220-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Well it looks like I'll be the two-tone SIG owner. I got into a bidding war with the black one above. Bowed out at $475 (it was back and forth). I figure the extra $100 on the two-tone would be worth it. Even if it didn't come with extra mag and box.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:33, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

::No prob on getting back to me. I like the two-tone much much better too. But I figured if I could have saved a 100 bucks or more, it would have been nice. But after getting outbid the last time on the black one, I was relieved --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:26, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

==This user==
Check out what this user did to the [[MAC-10]] page, I reverted his edits. Not sure what the punishment should be.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:17, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/69.92.163.96

== Crossing Over ==

Thanks for doing this page. I was going to do this page, and I started doing some screencaps, but I never got back to it. I just uploaded the pics I already had done, but you can go ahead and do the rest. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have the DVD anymore, and that's all the ones I got to. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:58, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

==Delete==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:HD-AUG.jpg

Thanks--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:18, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

== Dear Wendy ==

Why did you delete [[Dear Wendy]]? That was work in progress, I was still doing the screencaps and now the page is gone! Great, now you really killed my effort. Next time, just wait one single day!

==AK's==
Any idea what these are? I usually go by the front sight to see whether it's hooded or not. But I can't tell. Also my SIG shipped yesterday, maybe it'll arrive by Fri.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:HD-WP-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:HD-WP-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
Here are some full screen shots. If they can't be identified then no biggie. Thanks for the help.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:03, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:HD-AK-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:HD-AK-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:HD-AK-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Appreciate the help.

Also my SIG was supposed to be delivered Thurs. but my FFL guy wasn't there to sign for it, I guess. (gun transfers are a side business for him). So I probably won't be able to see it until Mon. to start the transfer. I hope it at least gets redelivered today. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:33, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

==Spades of Columbia==
[[Spades of Columbia]] I think this guy intended to make a user page. But made an actual page instead. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:47, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, I Love movie and know guns, but i am ignorant on computer codes and what not. I'm learning or at least trying to.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:57, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

==Thanks==
The SIG got redelivered yesterday. Funny thing, it came from NC. I hope I get to look at tomorrow. Have a happy 4th too. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:31, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

==22 AKs==
Nope there were a bunch, the ones imported by Mitchell Arms, I think, were the Armscorp ones made in the Philippines, and they looked like crap. Or the Italian Armi-Jager ones, also imported. Regardless, only the .22LR guns had that style of forearm. As for the Hudsons, I would demand proof of your assertion. I have every Hudson imported from the late 1970s on. They all look the same and they don't look anything like that. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:19, 5 July 2010 (UTC) (BTW, I'm typing this with no sleep so if I sound insane, forget it) You know what? I think they're the .22 style AKs with other types of mags jammed in.

==delete list==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Crazies_S%26W_14.jpg

From the trailer.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:SniperRifle-Leibw%C3%A4chter-Cobra11.png

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:CodenameTiger-StetschkinAPS-Cobra11.png

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RassmannSecurity-IMIUzi-Cobra11.png

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:MP5K-Leibw%C3%A4chter-Cobra11.png

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DA012-CodenameTiger-Cobra11.png

I told the guy who uploaded the 5 above, to upload jpgs in the future, he offered to re-upload these as jpgs.

Also I get to pick up the SIG Thurs. It's one sexy gun. I'm not sure if its even be fired after the refinish, unless the finish from CCR is really that good.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==delete tag==
How do I do it? --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:02, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Got it thanks.

There's also the unused file section. http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:UnusedImages --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:13, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

== Daewoo Paratrooper ==

I moved your comment to the [[Talk:Driven_To_Kill|discussion page]]. Thank you for the help! --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 11:18, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

==Limited Time offer==
To only the most TRUSTED IMFDB fellow mods! ;) lOL. If you have a 'wish list' for pics you think the site needs desperately, shoot me a list. I've been busy, but I got a STACK of guns that I haven't photographed yet, including a WASR-3 that looks EXACTLY like Sascha Robey's gun, and a BUNCH of just general replacement pics. But I was thinking you might have a list that you really wanted. this is a limited time offer! :D The only problem with getting some of the BIG armory guns is that the guys really don't like it when I bother them to snap pics when they're neck deep in a big movie production. Gotta tread lightly there. :) On the photo front, I've 'fixed and cleaned up' some guns (and those are the ones I don't put the copyright disclaimer on so you know that I'm just cleaning up jacked images). Hope your summer is going well. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:25, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

==Predators Guns==
Hey Matt, The guns for Predators was supplied by ISS. I made the muzzle attachments on the Beretta 92 and the HK. Also made the mount on the AA-12 for the surefire grip/light. - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

==Transformers 3==
Okay. I was SNOOKERED. Apparently this member LIAM who is [[User:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]] is a fanboy who created the facebook page himself, even though the page says the "OFFICIAL" transformers 3 facebook page, thus falsely implying that it is sanctioned by the studio. NOT being a sanctioned facebook page, immediately makes it suspect in my eyes and I vote for deletion. These behind the scenes photos were NOT released by the studio. They were personally taken by people on set and 'leaked'. The only reason why I did not ban it immediately was because I thought it was an officially facebook sanctioned page. ''' It is not.''' We can get into serious trouble if studio lawyers all of a sudden get pissed at IMFDB and start sending us 'cease and desist' letters to 'remove' all of our screencaps. That would spell the END Of IMFDB. All because of one fanboy idiot. But I wonder what you think about the matter "No Harm done?" or "delete" ? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:05, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

==public enemies?==
You never disclosed that anything was wrong, so this reference to an 'incident' is a mystery to me.[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:01, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

==Screen used gun?==
Is this the screen used gun from Public Enemies?--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:John-Dillinger-1911A1-Full-Auto-Machine-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
I did a search earlier. I think it came from this site. http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/tag/pistol/
--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:Well I think Kilgore thought it was Dillinger's actual pistol not the screen used gun. It fucking blows you can't put the screen guns on the site. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:45, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== Re: Public Enemies ==

Here is the link[http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/03/29/colt-m1911a1-full-auto-pistol/]
. [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 00:17, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:You're Welcome. And I already know that it was not Dillenger's Gun after doing some research, but I don't really care because I'll never be able to use it. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 00:33, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

==Willis Beretta==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DH3-Beretta92FS.jpg
Didn't I replace this already? Or is this another version I missed? Help out my crappy memory. ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:57, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Admin==
Yeah sounds good, thanks. Another user I'd recommend is User:Jcordell. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:38, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
:Got admin rights now. I just want to say thanks again for the recommendation. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

==Another RE: Admin==
Sure thing. Very flattering. Thanks.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:45, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Great. Looking forward to it. Now I'll have something new to learn. And now I can create a category for Australian movies. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Also I think Ben41 would be a good addition. He and I have been working together on several pages the last few weeks and he seems like a good guy. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:16, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the recommendation. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:08, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

== PNG images ==

You can delete the PNG images I uploaded now.

[[:Image:Carnosaur3M16.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:Carnosaur3Sniper2Ak47.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:Carnosaur3SniperAk47.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:CarnosaurRanceM4A1.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:Carnosaur3PolcheckwSPAS12.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:Carnosaur3TerroristRPG.PNG|50px]]

--[[User:ScratteLover|ScratteLover]] 14:08, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Image name syntax ==
I think we should better make it '''mandatory''' for all the names of the screenshot images being uploaded to IMFDB to have a proper syntax, bearing both the movie/television series/game's name and the guns name. Just check out today's recent changes you will a couple of images bearing names such as 'Blaser R93','UMP' and 'G36C', but in fact they are screenshots. I believe that a proper syntax will group common screenshots together and will not club with a gun image bearing the same name.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, we should make it a rule and display it in bold letters in the upload file page as well.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:22, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:Sorry, couldn't reply earlier as I was too busy with CODBO. Yeah, that's fine. As I said earlier we should put a note of it in the upload file page as well (isn't Bunni the only one who can do this?). BTW we already have rule-breaker with EliteCrew.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== Image:M1917 Enfield Rifle - .30-06.JPG ==

Originally I was trying to upload this as new version of '''Image:M1917enfield.jpg''' and I messed up and uploaded it as a seperate image. Can you delete it at once. Thanks. Also, when I uploaded as a new version of '''Image:M1917enfield.jpg''', it showed it as the old version of picture. I was never good at uploading new versions of pictures. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 21:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

==Help me out on House of the Dead==
What would you say this is? :D
[[Image:HOTD-SilverKahr9pocket.jpg|thumb|none|400px| ]]
[[Image:HOTD-SilverKahr9.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:HOTD-Kahr9tone.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:HOTD-Kahr9Shot22Tone.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:HOTD-Twotone-pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
Any good guess would help me. My brain is firing out of sync for some reason when I look at these screencaps! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==CW and Die hard with a Vengeance ==
From what I remember, CW purchased the guns from WS when they were done. There is a lot of internal selling and swapping going on, but only between guys who are friendly with each other. :) Now I annoy everyone ;P LOL but I do loan out stuff to other armories who are short of stuff. :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:49, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==Type 56==
I was reading the list of your weapons and noticed you mentioned your Type 56 was "Pre-Ban". Just out of curiosity, are you reffering to the ban on imported Chinese weapons or the ban on automatic weapons? At first I assumed the former but then I realized I've never seen a semi-automatic only Type 56 (not that I have anywhere near enough experience for that to indicate they don't exist). -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==Reply==
Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were talking about the import ban but wasn't sure. In addition to the assult weapons import ban I think there was another ban that prevents any weapons, including sporting arms like the Norinco coppy of the Winchester 1887, from being imported from China. I would have to double check that information though. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

== PersonOfInterest ==

What did he do this time?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

User talk:MT2008

2010-09-23T23:33:15Z

SargeOverkill:

==ARCTIC WARFARE==
My friend, i have done the job of describing the differences, check the discussion board of the page. i hope you appreciate my work.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== User 67.183.66.44 ==
It is better to block this idiot for an infinite period of time, since just as his blocking period expired he has started making his usual changes, Take for example, he added the pistol and machine pistol category to full-sized SMGs like Spectre M4 and Jatimatic.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 08:56, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

==S&W 4500==
I recently combined the smith & wesson 4505, 4506, 4516, and 4566 articles into one. I was told to contact an administrator to see about removing the old individual pages if the change is considered acceptable. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
:: (What I wrote to ANONYMOUS) I just banned an IP address (person did not log in as user Anonymous) for wholesale removal of data from three S&W pages. That is NOT the way to do it. If this is YOU (i.e. Anonymous User), I will lift the ban, but you CREATE the new page first and then cut & paste the old data AND then put a note at the TOP of the old page explaining what you did. Suddenly BLANK Pages by unknown IP addresses usually AUTOMATICALLY put up a big red flag. If that is you, ALWAYS log in before you do stuff like that. Unknown IP address get automatically banned for that. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:43, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

== The Stand ==

Why so snarky? The last photo does appear to be some type of folding stock attached to the weapon. And why did you not either send me a message on my page or add to the discussion page for the movie? I don't mind a debate but I'm puzzled by your tone. Have I done something to you lately? I was under the impression that we strove for some type of polite excahnges here. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Sure I understand how that goes.We all get tired and sometimes come across in wasy that we didn't intend. Not a problem. I thought I saw a folded stock in the last screecap, but I'll change it to the 89 model.I'm not a big MP5 guy. More into S&W revolvers. Thanks. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:52, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

==I am back again==

Hey Matt, Things have been slow so I have to work twice as hard to make ends meet. The Industry has been off as of late but did work on some TV shows. Shop work is slowly coming on line so that will be nice. I like the new things going on with the website looks good. [[User:ritwikbmca|ritwikbmca]] new templates look great don't know if the rest of the admins had agreed on them as standard. I have been hearing from others in the Industry about the site most good some feel that there are some errors that need to be corrected. I did find out that some film archivist are looking at the site to very weapons and props used in the films which is very cool. A couple have stated we should think about adding studios to the show info so it can be used as a cross reference. I believe that no matter what people believe that IMFDB will be similar to IMDB on the information it has. I have other show that I have screen-capped and hope to post some more this week and go back through others to check them of errors. -[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

==Buying a SIG==
I may be looking into getting a SIG P220 (45acp). At the gun shop where I bought a S&W 4505 (same as your 4506 but blued, carbon steel). After the 3 day waiting period is up on the 4505, I'm going to take my Desert Eagle up there and see what they'll give me for it. The SIG in question is a two tone model, nickel side, black frame. It had a better grip than the 4505 but it was $50 more (listed at $600) and wasn't as clean as the 4505. Are the pre '96 stamped slide models the best to get and is there anything else I should look for? Is there anything else negative about the post '96 models other than the slide weight? --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:23, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for the response, very informative. No problem with it being long either. Cleared up a lot of questions. I'm pretty sure it had the older style plastic grips. I don't think it had nickel controls either just the slide. I'll bring the date list with me and check. I didn't really give it a good look over. I just saw that was as clean as the 4505. I went into the gun shop just to see what they had, didn't plan on buying anything. I saw that 4505, you don't ever see them just the 4506 models. That had some P226's too, didn't really look at them. I already have a few nines and was wanting to get some .45's. If the Desert Eagle was a .44 I would keep it, my S&W 586 takes care of my .357 needs. If the SIG isn't up to par I get something else and look into getting one later. Thanks for the help. Also I considered trying to buy your 4506, but since it's a pain for you to ship out of state, I went local. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:34, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

::No SIG for me. Gun shop wanted to give me $500 for the Desert Eagle. I didn't handle the SIG again. But I was wrong about the grips. Had the newer style. I'll get a SIG later. I'm very pleased with the 4505. I just wish the grip had a little swell on the sides to keep it from being so flat. I'll post some pics on the forum later. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:32, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

==User 67.183.66.44==
He's back. I've had to fix almost a dozen pages on which he did edits. For one thing, he adds custom gun pics to the main gun pages, and then he doesn't even format it correctly. WTF? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:10, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

==Seecamp LWS-32==
I replaced the image of the Seecamp from Weapon Specialists LTD with one from my own inventory. At least it's one of our own copyrighted images. Hope you like it. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:SeecampLWS-32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Seecamp LWS-32 pocket pistol - 32 acp]]

==User 67.183.66.44 ==
I just had to to block him AGAIN for one month. I'm tempted to permanently ban him. Literally the MOMENT that his ban expired, he started making TONS of changes, most of which were stupid and required fixing. Thoughts? Should this guy get a longer ban? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:25, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Afghan Breakdown==
In regards to your question I'm afraid there hasn't been a version of Afghan Breakdown released with English subtitles, officially or otherwise. I tried looking for them when I originally watched the movie and found that the torrented version was Italian-dubbed while the only available subtitles were Polish. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 02:32, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

==So are you happy now?==
I'll get one of the Canuck Flat top soon.... ;)
[[Image:Colt715 C7Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt 715 aka Canadian C7 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Unlike the real C7, this has an A1 flash hider for the sake of a full 'flower' flash pattern]]
[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:40, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==BTW: More pics ;) ==
I've been replacing a bunch of the lame pics. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:MPIKM72Wood.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|East German AKM - MPi-KM-72 Transitional Rifle - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Savage-Stevens-311-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Savage Stevens 311A Shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:M1A1Carbine.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M1A1 Paratrooper Carbine - .30 Carbine]]
[[Image:Ruger10 22.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Ruger 10/22 (Pre-2005 Model) - .22 LR ]]
[[Image:ColtSAA HandOfGod.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Colt Single Action Army Fast Draw Model "Hand of God" - .45 LC]]
[[Image:Smith&Wesson-Model-19.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 19]]
[[Image:RossiModel851.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Rossi Model 851 Revolver - .38 Special]]
[[Image:CharterArmsUnderCover70s.jpg‎‎|thumb|none|300px|1970s era Charter Arms Undercover with 3" barrel - .38 Special]]

==There's no pleasing you ;) ==
So are all the Canadian shows have the Oly grip on them? Are you sure? If they have the A2 style pistol grip, then it's essentially the same rifle. Also the 715 is not mine so I won't be getting that back to photograph any time soon. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:29, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==What about Stargate and other shows?==
There are TONS of TV shows filmed in Canada and I'm not sure that they use the Oly grip. I 'think' Seven days had the A2 grip and SG1 had the A2 grip sometimes. Let me know if ALL of the Canadian shows have the Oly grip, but I am sure I've seen other lowers on the guns in the past. I will try to get the rifle upper back and film it on an Oly lower. YOU KNOW I'm the ONLY IMFDB member who bothers to do that! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:57, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==Deleting Frankengun pics==
I just deleted another one of my pics 'modified' by a member. I don't mind placeholders but the noobs don't give accreditation so I delete them as soon as I see them. People doing 'frankengun' chop jobs DE-motivates me to go out and photograph the real guns, and we don't want THAT to happen. :) I mean why bother trying to track down the real guns from HEAT if some guy is going to PS Franken gun another gun? If it looks decent enough the reason and motivation for me to take the time (and irritate my fellow armorers) becomes less and less compelling. Thoughts? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:57, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==C7 stuff==
I was going to overwrite your old C7 shot with this new image, but then I realized that the naming nomenclature would be wrong and give the wrong impression (i.e. naming the file c7 when the rifle is a 715). I am looking forward to fixing the UGLY pics of the Diemaco section of the M16 page soon. Just a thought regarding a movie page, I don't think the rifles in [[Operation Dumbo Drop]] are 715s. Those 715 uppers were really prevalent in the 1990s when the supply of original M16A1 uppers dried up and everyone stopped making them and went to the A2 uppers. A lot of guys who wanted the M16A1 look but didn't have an A1 gun were buying what we all called 'The Canadian A1 upper' to build up their guns. So it's a regular franken gun with a straight ring and light barrel that happens to have a 715 upper receiver. It's the real life franken guns that trips us up. AR parts from so many manufacturers are so prevalent that we can be seeing Bushmaster or DPMS or Eagle Arms (now defunct) or Pac West guns all over the place. I remember that Colt was NOT selling their lower receivers (assholes) before the first Clinton ban, but everyone else was. I bought over 30 Pac West receivers and built them up into AR15 variants before the first AW ban. They were about $55.00 (and then jumped up to $400 just before the ban.). Just a note. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:32, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==Colt cowards==
They were one of the first ones to CAVE when the gun control fanatics started their jihad against gun owners, starting with the Stockton shooting in Feb 1989 all the way to the passage of the Clinton AW ban in 1994. Colt SOLD complete emasculated rifles with no bayonet lug and renamed receivers. Colt refused to sell lower receivers upon which to build custom guns. But that's what armorers wanted. We swap out uppers all the time. So unless the armory (like Stembridge, and later CW who picked up a lot of their stuff) bought all their guns in the 1970s and 1980s, from Colt, the most prevalent build up guns would be by other manufacturers. IN the early 1990s Colt rifles were more expensive than many competitors and also harder to find. Colt, IMHO, is the American H&K ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:04, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==715 photo==
Just talked to the owner about getting the barreled upper for a shoot. He will be available in about 2 weeks. Also I discovered during our conversation. ((I didn't look that closely at the gun because it was a really quick shoot that I had to do in about 3 minutes! Someone put the gun against the white background and I lit it and click off about a dozen shots from that angle only and off it went))... that it was a full Colt 715 kit but mounted on a pre-1989 Bushmaster XM15-A2 lower that was legally converted to full auto fire from a civilian receiver (i.e. a post 86 sample). There are small 'marking' differences, i.e. the full auto setting word was stamped on LATER. Does that make a difference? Or should I reshoot the entire gun with a Colt lower receiver? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:51, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==Got an easy fix for the 715==
The Factory Colt 715 has no select fire markings on the right side of the gun. I can just 'clone' out the markings, though I don't like to do that, (I use Photoshop just to remove SNs if needed, scratches, cracks, oil stains, weird reflections, etc. I try not to fundamentally change the look of the gun, just to 'clean it up'). But I can clone out the Bushmaster Selector markings and keep it blank. Thus for all intents and purposes, it looks like a Colt 715 lower from that side. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
::(EDIT) Done. I also cloned out a big fat THUMBPRINT that I left on the upper (oops!) hahahahaha. Don't want to pollute IMFDB's pics with that kinda stuff! :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:10, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

==SIG P228==
You know, I've been itching to replace that 228 with a better pic. That gun was dropped and in the middle of repair when I snapped a pic of it. The frame was scratched really bad (from a car stunt) and was repainted with black spray paint. It was NOT the best example to use. Should we let Joker keep his P228 pic until I can get a better screen used P228 sample? At the least, it will be a reminder for me to get a new P228 pic. Thoughts? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:28, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:I opt to keep the beater P228 pic for now. It IS a screen used gun, but nothing big or eventful, mostly B-movies and I can't figure out where it was rented to. I will try to get a screen used P228 from a BIG MOVIE from CW hopefully soon. I will be out of town for a WW2 documentary shoot for NATGEO in the South Pacific again (I leave on wed), so I will not be able to screencap or take pics (only some blank firing Pistols of which IMFDB already has the pics for and a BUNCH of rubber Arisakas and garands for some reenactments for the documentary film crew). I will be back 1st week of April. I will be on here on IMFDB, though via wi fi from the lap top from the hotel. If we get rained out, you'll be seeing me here on IMFDB! hahahaha. best regards [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:38, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
==Desert Eagle==
Great work on the page. :) Let me know what you need help on. I think my brother has Lucky Number Slevin. So I'll check and see if the model can be determined. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:52, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah I could give two shits about the video game junk too. Most of them will probably Mark XIX. The grid pattern isn't necessary unless it's a long list. But anyway I'll help what I can. Also that custom Eagle you just uploaded is a USA built one. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:06, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I would do, let the hardcore gamers sort that crap out if they care so much.(Very few would be Mark VII) Also even though there wouldn't be any blank converted Eagles in the .440 Cor-Bon caliber I added it to the specifications to be more accurate.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:27, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the .440 version didn't have the flutes. Also I'm throwing a wrench here. But I think the early Mark XIX models at least in the .44 Magnum may not have had fluted barrels. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:58, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:BSDesertEagle-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here we can see the .44 stamp on the other Russian's Desert Eagle Mark XIX. His has a chrome barrel and frame with a black slide.]]
[[Image:44barrel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Why do they prefer the .50 AE? Does it cycle better than the .357 and .44 because you can get a heavier powder charge? Or I'm wondering if the .50 isn't rimmed like the .357 and .44 makes it easier. All this talk about Eagles makes me what to go shoot mine.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:28, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

:I helped identify Desert Eagles appearing in animes and a few video games. Even after this a lot of video games are left, some of which cannot be identified since either those pages have no screencaps to identify the model or the Desert Eagles appearing in them have components of Mark I,VII,XIX mixed together!. I also deleted some video games, films, anime and television series appearing in the page which appeared in red.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 06:21, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

==Blanks==
It took them a while to get .45 1911's to cycle blanks also. It seems like it would be tough to get a DE to cycle reliable with blanks. Don't know if you handled one and racked the slide. (Fucking heavy). I almost smacked myself in the face after shooting mine and then switching to a Hi-power. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:01, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

:I'll have to search the forum and read your Desert Eagle story. The .357 is the biggest handgun caliber I have shot. I don't go shooting with anyone else besides my dad, so I don't get to shoot anyone else guns. I'd like to shoot a .50 just for the experience. You can't trust internet gun users about gun recoil.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

No it's fine like it is, thanks though. They can click on the image and see who it belongs to. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Also I think I'm going to have a problem with a user on the [[Death Sentence]] page. He made some okay edits. But he took one of my images off the page and wrote he used different gun and renamed some of the image files so they ended not showing up. (I hope I didn't confuse you) --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Desert Eagle==
I'll be adding the template to the page. Can you help me with it?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:07, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

== Boondocks Saints 2 ==

Oh alright, I'll leave it to you. One less thing on my to do list. I'll go work on Ninja Assassin. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== screencapping ==

Well I need some help cause I have no idea how to work the screen capture feature on VLC [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

==delete==
Need this file deleted, uploaded it by accident, when I should have been uploading over an existing file. Thanks --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:FDTD-00115.jpg

==From Dusk Till Dawn==
Thanks. The page wasn't really missing any screencaps, but was lacking in good ones. Also I borrowed Lucky # Slevin, so I'll check out the DE used. I think the page is incomplete so I may end up capping it. Plan on adding some caps of the missing revolvers in [[The Killer]] too.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 00:05, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

==Mods & Stuff==
yeah, he was writing snarky sarcastic stuff. Sounds just like a kid. Personally I think some of our newer (foreign) members are 'young' based on their actions (and preferences). For one, I don't like spending time arguing why we should NOT have a section on suction cup arrows LOL! We always get some noob waltz in and start challenging the rules of IMFDB (Gee, why don't you guys start doing THIS instead?) Thankfully I've seen some of our experienced (and even some newer members who 'get it') step in and intervene. It's gratifying to see that we have members who follow the rules and enforce that amongst other members. :) the shoot was a mixed bag. It was really windy and stormy in the South pacific. Even though there was no rain, the wind gusts knocked me down several times. I'm only here for a few days. I leave for Rome for a shoot and then for a gig in Hong Kong. No I don't take any weapons with me ;) I only act in a paid advisory capacity. But depending on whether I can get internet access from wherever I'm at in the world, I may not be around for April-early May. We'll see. Sometimes the shoot days are so long, that I just crash at the end of the day. Anyway, I felt like I was the lone mod sometimes (but again, we have quite a few experienced standard members who are doing a good job of reigning in some of the wacky changes made by 'drive by members'. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:39, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

== Re: Model 733 ==

Thank you for clarifying this for me. While we're on the subject of the M16 series, would you mind if I went ahead and phased out the older Model 715 picture and deleted it in favor of MPM's pic? It's rather redundant to have two pictures of the same weapon, especially when one is significantly higher-quality than the other. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 19:44, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

==The Killer==
The replica HPs must have been used by the triads. There is one good view of a HP. It appears to be a Inglis, judging from the front sight and finger notch on slide. They were imported into China during WWII. Interestingly they put an A1 style birdcage flash hider on the Norinco 56. Any of the trivia stuff you learned please add to the page.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:TK-HP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This is during the gun buy.]]

Yeah I think that modified revolver may be a Taurus also. Since most of the fired revolvers are Taurus. There are some really good close ups of some of the guns. Makes iding them easy.Other than some text and one or two images that need to be uploaded over. I'm through with it.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==Disambiguation page==
I have created some disambiguation pages,eg, [[M3]] and [[Delta Force]] to improve page navigation in IMFDB. Considering the latter I used to hate when I typed to search the video game Delta Force when the site redirected me to the movie page Delta Force with the same name. So I am currently in the process of making disambiguation pages for pages with similar titles to make navigating pages easy. Ben41 asked me recieve the sysop's consent before undertaking this project.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 14:29, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

:I think we should keep the pictures in the disambiguation page atleast for the guns.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 06:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

==Lois & Clark: Tempus, Anyone?==
Where did you find the Gali AR? I couldn't find it, but is this the Gali AR (the one being waved by the man in the middle) in this screeencap? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 13:41, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Ruger-Mini-14LC.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

==RE:RE==
Thanks for the info. I was able to find more guns and a poster of guns in that episode. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 14:42, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

==General Information==
Shouldn't [[IMFDB Info - The History of M16s in Film and Television]] be added to GE? It's locked so reg users can't edit it.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 04:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Another thing, the purpose of the General Information category was so a glossary of firearm terms could be made up. Nobody has created one. Should it just be called Glossary or Glossary - Firearm Terms? I figure a section for gun types, action, malfunction. I'm not sure what else. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:17, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I added it to general information category. MPM didn't want anyone else messing with that page is the reason why it was protected. Probably best to change it back to that.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 00:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

:What about a page for all gun related [[Abbreviations|abbreviations]].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 06:50, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

==Beretta==
Sure. I can do that. By the way I have no idea what type of M16/AR15 they are using in [[Jesse Stone: Death in Paradise]]. Whne I was in the Army we had the M16A1, M16A2 and the M4 carbine. Truth be told I've stopped trying to follow all the different variations. So I will leave it to you or somebody else to figure out. Thanks. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:20, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks on the M4 info. I'll get that added. As you've probably gathered over the past few months my strength is in revolvers and the older firearms. The new stuff I can identify, but all the variants leave me cold. I think I stopped paying attention around 1995. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:29, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

== User talk:99.12.124.133 ==

I hate to report this, but this user keeps creating pages with only a minimal amount of information and I'm not sure what to do. I hate to have to go and fix every page this user makes. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

== ''Andromeda Strain'' ==

Thank you for your additions to ''[[Andromeda Strain, The (2008 Miniseries)|The Andromeda Strain]]''. I plan to rent & cap this sometime in the near future, but the extra work on the page is appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 19:10, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you for capping this as well. I was planning to cap it myself, but the help is again appreciated. One minor note though; the name of the M1126 APC is spelled 'Stryker', like the name, not with an I. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 00:09, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

==Are you psychic? Part deax==
Again within SECONDS of me uploading a hero gun pic, you comment. Your Jedi Mind powers are starting to freak me out. I just flew back into the US this morning and I'm trying to adjust to the time zone change again. I'm also trying to fix the WWS page since I never liked the overdoing of the screencaps on that page. It held the record at one time, 36 shots of the same gun in one section. Ben41 and I am working on it since it is one of the most viewed pages on IMFDB. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:05, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

==AKs and Canucks==
Those AKs built for We Were Soldiers were built in 2002, so they could not have been in anything prior to that. They were built because the filmmakers, upon learning what we all know about Type 56s, etc. opted to have tons of real milled receiver guns built for the film's authenticity. The last time I saw them, they were the same color (i.e. wood furniture) so they're pretty easy to spot. As for replacing the real AK-47 pic, I'm trying to get a pic of a real example from an Army Museum, so that we have a real Soviet one for all those film entries that were done overseas over the years. I hate those jacked Type 1-3 examples, for one they don't represent what was actually a production model and they're also readily recognizable jacked images. But since the WWS AKs had that weird wood, I wouldn't replace the other pics just yet.

''BTW, I finally learned why Canadian movies and TV shows have so many Olympic Arms AR rifles''
....AND?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
mpm

== Heat ==
Thanks for the correction. I didn't realize I had put the Colt under the subgun category. I'm just going in and organizing some of the pages. I want to point out that I'm not changing any of the text or screencaps. But [[Heat]] and [[Ronin]] are some of our most viewed pages and they had different types of firearms scattered all over the page, Guess I'm just anal. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:38, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

== Virtuosity ==

I will take a look again at my screenshots to see if I have them. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 16:25, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==nice to see you back==
I'm going a little stir crazy here. A lot of the veteran mods are MIA. Good thing we have some really great vet users who are trying their best to improve the site. Hahaha. I just got the Farcry DVD but I see you already did it. :) Does that mean you're back? :)[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:58, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

== Armyguy277 user page ==
ok first of all the k4s were on the page becuse it was the clossest i could get to a C7/C8 and second WTF do you care it is my userpage --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:58, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
PS how do you tumb nail --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:58, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

==you da man!==
Now that I have some good pics of the gun, I have some chopped Type 56 barrels lying around here. I can put a post ban Type 56 front sight and an American Krinkov Muzzle brake on it. I have a messed up AK receiver that I do parts work on. Think I should build it? Don't know what to call it since it IS a 100% gunshop custom frankengun. Do you think calling it a Fake East German MPi-AKS-74NK is appropriate? I just thought it was the closest production AK variant to that monstrosity :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:59, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
==delete==
Need to delete this image, we already have an Inglis Hi-Power pic.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Browninghipower9mm.jpg
[[Image:Browninghipower9mm.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning Hi-Power - 9mm]]

[[Image:Armyguy277]]
ok thanks

==HK21==
I think HK21 needs its own page since it has three-four variants of its own (HK11,HK23,HK13,GR9). What do you think?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:25, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:BTW we should create a set of rules stating whether a gun should demand its own page or be redirected to another page for a gun from which the former gun was derived. Earlier there were many controversies regarding these redirects (though the FPK/PSL thing was my fault, it was actually a AK style receiver on close inspection) and these set of rules will define the place where a gun actually belongs to. For example, like the HK21 the PSG-1 is a modified G3 and happens to be in the G3 page, but it has a sub variant of its own (the MSG-90) and I believe it should have its own , separate page. And by doing this, pages like the AK-47, M16 and G3 will be brief in size too.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== New Weapons Infobox Template ==
I just created a [[Template:Infobox Weapon|‎new weapons infobox]] template. Its just a modified version of the previous templates put together (since I don't know how to create one from scratch). It is only in the prototype stage and I will request help from other members, who know more about creating these templates.What do you think about the template? Should there be any new features?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

==Carbines, Repeating Rifles==
I'm getting confused with repeating rifles and carbines and I am having trouble sorting out repeating rifles and carbines in [[Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman|Lois & Clark]]. Here's some questions I have:
*1. Should carbines and lever-action repeating rifles go in the rifle section?
*2. Are semi-auto carbines like the [[Ruger Mini-14]] considered as rifles or assault rifles?
*3. Are carbines the same as rifles?

I hope I'll be able to sort them out once I find out about carbines and lever-action repeating rifles. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 22:49, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

==RE:==
I just created a separate page for the HK LMGs-
[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_series_machine_guns]
As for the template, I'm trying to take the extra space in consideration and add more IMFDB specific content to it.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

==Delete list==

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_2_frame_10157%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Punisher_M1911a.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_16_frame_75585%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_19_frame_88904%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_16_frame_73433%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_16_frame_73942%29.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Punisher_ShotgunA.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Punisher_AcetyleneGunA.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:VIDEO_TS_%28title_0_ch_19_frame_91493%29.jpg

Sorry about the long list. I use to upload over existing caps, but when there are several contributors and they label differently. It's more trouble than it's worth to sort.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:11, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

==Real-Time Strategy Computer Games Allowed?==
I was wondering if strategy games are allowed. There are some that have real weapons (such as Company of Heroes, which I'll try to do) and players can just zoom in to get good shots of the guns. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:08, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

== Re: Lethal Weapon S&W ==

I was looking at the ''[[Lethal Weapon 2]]'' page not long ago and saw that the S&W was changed from a 5906 to a 659. I don't remember where I saw it (one of the discussion pages I think) but someone had wrote that the 5906 in Lethal Weapon 2 couldn't be possible at that time period so it had to be a 659. And then, seeing as Murtaugh used what I think was the same gun in ''[[Lethal Weapon 3]]'', that's why I thought it was a 659. But seeing as you've just provided better evidence, I'll change it back lol. My mistake. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 18:08, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

==Should I have blocked this guy?==
He's an anonymous IP address and all he did was slowly, bit by bit, delete the entire discussion page of the VG. It struck me as weird, but I could be tired and cranky so I thought I would asked a few other Mods to see if I overreacted. I can always life the ban.
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/72.9.28.64
[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:16, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

==delete page==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Shoot_Em_Up

Someone started this talk page and had Russian language in it, I cleared it. But still needs to be deleted. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

==SIG cont.==
I checked that SIG out at the gun shop again. They had dropped the price from $600 to $570. But after looking over it better, all over the nickel slide, tiny spots of the finish are missing. Pretty poor gun. They have an all black one a little cheaper but it wasn't much better.

I found one on gun broker I really like for $575. Here is the description "Sig P220, West German Manuf. This Sig has been refinished by, CCR / Cummings Custom Refinish. There are no issues and was in Excellent Condition prior to Refinish as it is now, low round count and all Orginal factory parts."

pics.

[[Image:SIG220-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:SIG220-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

It's technically reverse two-tone by SIG standards, but norm for others. It's a $160 for the refinish job, not to mention shipping. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

:I've bought a few older guns off GB and I haven't had any problems. (knock on wood) Generally if the gun was really beat up prior to refinishing, it would still show. Also the grips should actually be the checkered style right? --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

The all black P220 at the gun shop had Hogue finger groove grips, they were much too big for me. The two-tone had the pebble grain and it felt just right. The non finger groove Hogue's may be okay. A few hours before the two-tone SIG above goes out, there's an all black West German one with factory box, papers and two mags. It's in very good condition. It's at $350 right now, I may try to get it, depends on how crazy the bidding gets. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:23, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:SIG220-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Well it looks like I'll be the two-tone SIG owner. I got into a bidding war with the black one above. Bowed out at $475 (it was back and forth). I figure the extra $100 on the two-tone would be worth it. Even if it didn't come with extra mag and box.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:33, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

::No prob on getting back to me. I like the two-tone much much better too. But I figured if I could have saved a 100 bucks or more, it would have been nice. But after getting outbid the last time on the black one, I was relieved --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:26, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

==This user==
Check out what this user did to the [[MAC-10]] page, I reverted his edits. Not sure what the punishment should be.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:17, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/69.92.163.96

== Crossing Over ==

Thanks for doing this page. I was going to do this page, and I started doing some screencaps, but I never got back to it. I just uploaded the pics I already had done, but you can go ahead and do the rest. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have the DVD anymore, and that's all the ones I got to. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:58, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

==Delete==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:HD-AUG.jpg

Thanks--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:18, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

== Dear Wendy ==

Why did you delete [[Dear Wendy]]? That was work in progress, I was still doing the screencaps and now the page is gone! Great, now you really killed my effort. Next time, just wait one single day!

==AK's==
Any idea what these are? I usually go by the front sight to see whether it's hooded or not. But I can't tell. Also my SIG shipped yesterday, maybe it'll arrive by Fri.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:HD-WP-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:HD-WP-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
Here are some full screen shots. If they can't be identified then no biggie. Thanks for the help.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:03, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:HD-AK-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:HD-AK-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:HD-AK-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Appreciate the help.

Also my SIG was supposed to be delivered Thurs. but my FFL guy wasn't there to sign for it, I guess. (gun transfers are a side business for him). So I probably won't be able to see it until Mon. to start the transfer. I hope it at least gets redelivered today. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:33, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

==Spades of Columbia==
[[Spades of Columbia]] I think this guy intended to make a user page. But made an actual page instead. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:47, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, I Love movie and know guns, but i am ignorant on computer codes and what not. I'm learning or at least trying to.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:57, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

==Thanks==
The SIG got redelivered yesterday. Funny thing, it came from NC. I hope I get to look at tomorrow. Have a happy 4th too. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:31, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

==22 AKs==
Nope there were a bunch, the ones imported by Mitchell Arms, I think, were the Armscorp ones made in the Philippines, and they looked like crap. Or the Italian Armi-Jager ones, also imported. Regardless, only the .22LR guns had that style of forearm. As for the Hudsons, I would demand proof of your assertion. I have every Hudson imported from the late 1970s on. They all look the same and they don't look anything like that. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:19, 5 July 2010 (UTC) (BTW, I'm typing this with no sleep so if I sound insane, forget it) You know what? I think they're the .22 style AKs with other types of mags jammed in.

==delete list==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Crazies_S%26W_14.jpg

From the trailer.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:SniperRifle-Leibw%C3%A4chter-Cobra11.png

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:CodenameTiger-StetschkinAPS-Cobra11.png

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RassmannSecurity-IMIUzi-Cobra11.png

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:MP5K-Leibw%C3%A4chter-Cobra11.png

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DA012-CodenameTiger-Cobra11.png

I told the guy who uploaded the 5 above, to upload jpgs in the future, he offered to re-upload these as jpgs.

Also I get to pick up the SIG Thurs. It's one sexy gun. I'm not sure if its even be fired after the refinish, unless the finish from CCR is really that good.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==delete tag==
How do I do it? --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:02, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Got it thanks.

There's also the unused file section. http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:UnusedImages --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:13, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

== Daewoo Paratrooper ==

I moved your comment to the [[Talk:Driven_To_Kill|discussion page]]. Thank you for the help! --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 11:18, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

==Limited Time offer==
To only the most TRUSTED IMFDB fellow mods! ;) lOL. If you have a 'wish list' for pics you think the site needs desperately, shoot me a list. I've been busy, but I got a STACK of guns that I haven't photographed yet, including a WASR-3 that looks EXACTLY like Sascha Robey's gun, and a BUNCH of just general replacement pics. But I was thinking you might have a list that you really wanted. this is a limited time offer! :D The only problem with getting some of the BIG armory guns is that the guys really don't like it when I bother them to snap pics when they're neck deep in a big movie production. Gotta tread lightly there. :) On the photo front, I've 'fixed and cleaned up' some guns (and those are the ones I don't put the copyright disclaimer on so you know that I'm just cleaning up jacked images). Hope your summer is going well. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:25, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

==Predators Guns==
Hey Matt, The guns for Predators was supplied by ISS. I made the muzzle attachments on the Beretta 92 and the HK. Also made the mount on the AA-12 for the surefire grip/light. - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

==Transformers 3==
Okay. I was SNOOKERED. Apparently this member LIAM who is [[User:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]] is a fanboy who created the facebook page himself, even though the page says the "OFFICIAL" transformers 3 facebook page, thus falsely implying that it is sanctioned by the studio. NOT being a sanctioned facebook page, immediately makes it suspect in my eyes and I vote for deletion. These behind the scenes photos were NOT released by the studio. They were personally taken by people on set and 'leaked'. The only reason why I did not ban it immediately was because I thought it was an officially facebook sanctioned page. ''' It is not.''' We can get into serious trouble if studio lawyers all of a sudden get pissed at IMFDB and start sending us 'cease and desist' letters to 'remove' all of our screencaps. That would spell the END Of IMFDB. All because of one fanboy idiot. But I wonder what you think about the matter "No Harm done?" or "delete" ? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:05, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

==public enemies?==
You never disclosed that anything was wrong, so this reference to an 'incident' is a mystery to me.[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:01, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

==Screen used gun?==
Is this the screen used gun from Public Enemies?--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:John-Dillinger-1911A1-Full-Auto-Machine-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
I did a search earlier. I think it came from this site. http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/tag/pistol/
--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:Well I think Kilgore thought it was Dillinger's actual pistol not the screen used gun. It fucking blows you can't put the screen guns on the site. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:45, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== Re: Public Enemies ==

Here is the link[http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/03/29/colt-m1911a1-full-auto-pistol/]
. [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 00:17, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:You're Welcome. And I already know that it was not Dillenger's Gun after doing some research, but I don't really care because I'll never be able to use it. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 00:33, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

==Willis Beretta==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DH3-Beretta92FS.jpg
Didn't I replace this already? Or is this another version I missed? Help out my crappy memory. ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:57, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Admin==
Yeah sounds good, thanks. Another user I'd recommend is User:Jcordell. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:38, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
:Got admin rights now. I just want to say thanks again for the recommendation. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

==Another RE: Admin==
Sure thing. Very flattering. Thanks.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:45, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Great. Looking forward to it. Now I'll have something new to learn. And now I can create a category for Australian movies. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Also I think Ben41 would be a good addition. He and I have been working together on several pages the last few weeks and he seems like a good guy. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:16, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the recommendation. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:08, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

== PNG images ==

You can delete the PNG images I uploaded now.

[[:Image:Carnosaur3M16.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:Carnosaur3Sniper2Ak47.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:Carnosaur3SniperAk47.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:CarnosaurRanceM4A1.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:Carnosaur3PolcheckwSPAS12.PNG|50px]]
[[:Image:Carnosaur3TerroristRPG.PNG|50px]]

--[[User:ScratteLover|ScratteLover]] 14:08, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Image name syntax ==
I think we should better make it '''mandatory''' for all the names of the screenshot images being uploaded to IMFDB to have a proper syntax, bearing both the movie/television series/game's name and the guns name. Just check out today's recent changes you will a couple of images bearing names such as 'Blaser R93','UMP' and 'G36C', but in fact they are screenshots. I believe that a proper syntax will group common screenshots together and will not club with a gun image bearing the same name.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:21, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, we should make it a rule and display it in bold letters in the upload file page as well.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:22, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:Sorry, couldn't reply earlier as I was too busy with CODBO. Yeah, that's fine. As I said earlier we should put a note of it in the upload file page as well (isn't Bunni the only one who can do this?). BTW we already have rule-breaker with EliteCrew.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== Image:M1917 Enfield Rifle - .30-06.JPG ==

Originally I was trying to upload this as new version of '''Image:M1917enfield.jpg''' and I messed up and uploaded it as a seperate image. Can you delete it at once. Thanks. Also, when I uploaded as a new version of '''Image:M1917enfield.jpg''', it showed it as the old version of picture. I was never good at uploading new versions of pictures. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 21:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

==Help me out on House of the Dead==
What would you say this is? :D
[[Image:HOTD-SilverKahr9pocket.jpg|thumb|none|400px| ]]
[[Image:HOTD-SilverKahr9.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:HOTD-Kahr9tone.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:HOTD-Kahr9Shot22Tone.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:HOTD-Twotone-pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
Any good guess would help me. My brain is firing out of sync for some reason when I look at these screencaps! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==CW and Die hard with a Vengeance ==
From what I remember, CW purchased the guns from WS when they were done. There is a lot of internal selling and swapping going on, but only between guys who are friendly with each other. :) Now I annoy everyone ;P LOL but I do loan out stuff to other armories who are short of stuff. :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:49, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==Type 56==
I was reading the list of your weapons and noticed you mentioned your Type 56 was "Pre-Ban". Just out of curiosity, are you reffering to the ban on imported Chinese weapons or the ban on automatic weapons? At first I assumed the former but then I realized I've never seen a semi-automatic only Type 56 (not that I have anywhere near enough experience for that to indicate they don't exist). -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==Reply==
Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were talking about the import ban but wasn't sure. In addition to the assult weapons import ban I think there was another ban that prevents any weapons, including sporting arms like the Norinco coppy of the Winchester 1887, from being imported from China. I would have to double check that information though. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

== PersonOfInterest ==

What did he do this time?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series

2010-09-23T23:30:21Z

SargeOverkill:

'''The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series of rifles can be seen in the following films, television series, and video games used by the following actors:'''

''NOTE: IMFDB really needs someone who is good with the AW rifles and can tell the more subtle variants apart from each other - i.e. L96 from AW and AWM, AWP from AICS, etc. This page was crap before, treating every AW variant as if it were the L96 (which is the British service version) and eschewing the other variants. However, I don't know enough about the platform to tell them apart, and distinguish between them all in the movies where they appear. So anyone who wants to help out, please do. Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]''

Sir, i have done the job. Check the discussion for the differences.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Accuracy International Arctic Warfare ==

[[Image:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare - Psg 90.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Accuracy International AW 7.62x51mm NATO]]

Also known as the L96A1 in British military service; This model is the basis for the Arctic Warfare series of tactical rifles and is currently produced in calibers .243 Win and 7.62x51mm NATO and normally fitted with a 660mm (26") match grade barrel for accurate long range performance. The .243 Win has a 1 in 10 twist and the 7.62x51mm NATO has a 1 in 12.

The 7.62x51mm NATO version AW is fitted with a muzzle brake which serves to reduce recoil and muzzle flip. The AW is normally supplied with a 10-round box magazine. Both versions are housed in either olive drab or black stock panels and black metalwork. Butt length can be adjusted by fitting spacers to suit the shooter.

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| || S.T.A.R.S. Sniper || [[Resident Evil: Apocalypse]] || || 2004
|-
| [[Keifer Sutherland]] || "The caller" || [[Phone Booth]] || With silencer || 2002
|-
| [[Nicolas Cage]] || Joe || [[Bangkok Dangerous]] || || 2008
|-
|}

=== Television ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| || SAS soldiers || [[Ultimate Force]] || || 2002 - 2006
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Conflict: Desert Storm 2 Back to Baghdad]]||||||Erroneously shown as being semiautomatic||2003
|-
|[[Cold Winter]]||||||||2005
|-
|[[Combat Arms]]||L96A1||Available w/ suppressor and ghille camouflage strips||||2004
|-
|[[Delta Force: Task Force Dagger]]||AW||||||2002
|-
|[[SOCOM: Confrontation]]||L96AW||||||2008
|-
|[[War Rock]]||||||||2004
|-
|[[MAG]]||L96AW||||||2010
|-
|[[Ghost Recon]]||7.62 Sniper Rifle||||Chambered in 7.62X51MM NATO||2000
|-
|[[Battlefield 2]]||L96A1||With custom camo||||2005
|-
|[[Project Reality]]||L96A1||With Custom camo||||2005
|-
|[[Project Reality]]||L115A1||||||2005
|-
|}

=== Anime ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film/Television Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Toshokan Senso]]||Media Betterment Committee operators.||||2008
|-
|[[Kochikame]]
|}

== Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Magnum ==

[[Image:L96A1G.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Magnum .338 Lapua Magnum]]
[[Image:Accuracy International Arctic WarfareM - Psg 90.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Accuracy International AWSM .338 Lapua Magnum]]

The "Arctic Warfare Magnum"; Based on the AW rifle with minimal changes to accommodate Magnum length cartridges. Detachable box magazine which takes 5 rounds. Normal calibers are .300 Winchester Magnum and .338 Lapua Magnum. Designated L115A1 Long Range Rifle within the British military, the latter as the Arctic Warfare Super Magnum or L115A3 LRR. It is described by Guiness World Records to be the most advanced sniper rifle and was used by Cpl. Craig Harrison of the British Army to establish a new record distance for a confirmed kill shot in Afghanistan in November 2009, surpassing the previous record held by a [[McMillan TAC-50]] fired by Cpl. Rob Furlong of the Canadian Armed Forces.

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Counter Strike]]||Magnum Sniper Rifle||||Feeds 10 rounds magazine and also named "AWP"||2000
|-
|[[Counter Strike: Condition Zero]]||Magnum Sniper Rifle||||Feeds 10 rounds magazine and also named "AWP"||2003
|-
|[[Counter Strike: Source]]||Magnum Sniper Rifle||||Feeds 10 rounds magazine and also named "AWP"||2004
|-
|[[Counter-Strike Online]]||Magnum Sniper Rifle||Red(Christmas Special) Camouflage||Feeds 10 rounds magazine and also named "AWP"||2007
|-
|[[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]]||||||||2008
|-
|[[Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising]]||L115A1||||||2004
|-
|[[007: Nightfire]]||Winter Covert Sniper Rifle/Winter Tactical Sniper Rifle||w/ suppressor and white stock||||2002
|-
| [[Left 4 Dead 2]] || Accuracy International AWSM || w/ the tactical flashlight and optional laser sight 20 round || German Version only || 2009
|-
|}

== Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Police ==

[[Image:AWP.gif|thumb|right|500px|Accuracy International AWP]]

The "Arctic Warfare Police", The AWP rifle has a stiffer and shorter 610mm (24") barrel to maximise precision. Usual calibres are .243 Win (1 in 10 twist) and .308 Win (1 in 12 twist). The rifle is designed to perform best with match-grade ammunition. Butt length can be adjusted to suit the firer by using spacers. The AWP differs to other models, in that it's the only AW weapon system to have a black finish.

===Film===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| || Corrupt SWAT Snipers || [[Assault on Precinct 13 (2005)|Assault on Precinct 13]] || || 2005
|-
| [[Norman Reedus]] || Murphy || [[Boondock Saints, The|The Boondock Saints]] || || 1999
|-
|}

== Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Covert ==
Covert version of the AW featuring a side-folding stock and a suppressor.

===Video Games===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield]]||AW Covert||||||2004
|-
|}

== Accuracy International Arctic Warfare 50 ==

[[Image:AW50.gif|thumb|right|500px|Accuracy International AW50 .50 BMG]]
[[Image:AW50F.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Accuracy International AW50F .50 BMG]]

The biggest, largest-caliber variant of the Arctic Warfare rifles, chambered in .50 BMG. The "F" model, designed for the Australian military, differs in that it has a folding stock and a Madco barrel.

=== Television ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Jamie Draven]] || Jamie Bow || [[Ultimate Force]] / "Just a Target" || AW50F || 2002 - 2006
|-
|}

=== Anime ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|[[Elfen Lied]] || S.A.T. Sniper || AW50F || 2004
|-
|}

=== Video games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Far Cry]]||Sniper Rifle||||||2005
|-
|[[Counter-Strike Online]]||AW50||||||2008
|-
|[[Global Operations]]||||||||2002
|-
|[[Warrock]]||||||||2009
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Sniper Rifle]]

Talk:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series

2010-09-23T23:28:25Z

SargeOverkill: /* How to distinguish-The Basics */

==How to distinguish-The Basics==
1st off for any one confused with whether a rifle is an R700 in an AICS chassis or an Accuracy international, look at the bolt! the AI l96 series uses a ball shape bolt at the end of a round piece of metal while the R700 uses a flat "Tab" bolt handle.

PM/L96A1:The PM, the Grandpops of all the Arctic Warfare series, it is robust and is in 7.62 NATO. It was called the '''l96A1''' by the Brit military until its replacement by the AWSM, the Super Magnum.

AW: The AW is the standard Arctic Warfare, it is only chambered in 7.62 NATO and .243, and has the smallest frame of all the AW series.

AWM: The AWM is the Arctic Warfare Magnum, slightly larger feed and operating system, due to it being chambered in .300 Win. Mag.

IMPORTANT: A surefire way to tell a standard AW from an AW magnum. Look at the magazine! The magnum is .300 WM so the magazine is clearly longer than the standard AW in 7.62 NATO.!!!

AWP: The AWP is for Police, so AWP standing for Arctic Warfare Police. It is always black, not olive drab or tan. It also has a shorter 24 in (610 mm) barrel in comparison to AW model. The AWP is normally chambered for 7.62 mm NATO/.308 Winchester or .243 Winchester ammunition. The AWP is similar to the AW AE which has a black finish, but is a cheaper non-military version of the AW series.

AWS: The AWS(Arctic Warfare Suppressed) is simply a standard AW in 7.62 NATO, with an elongated barrel with an attached suppressor, which unfortunately gives it the effectiveness of a .22 Magnum.

AWC: The AWC is the Arctic Warfare Covert. It is the Standard 7.62 AW with a folding stock, and has a Suppressor similar to a AWS but with a shorter, fatter suppressor. It is often stored and transported in a civilian suitcase.

AWSM: The Arctic Warfare Super magnum, the AWSM is the AW magnum in .338 Lapua. it is the '''G22''' in the German military.

AW50: The AW50 is a AW Magnum chambered in .50 BMG, it's extremely large loading system distinguishes it from others.

AW50F: AW50F is the same as a AW50 except with a folding stock and a Madco custom barrel. This kind is uncommon because it is only used by the Australian Military.

AE: The AE is cheap alternative to the PM/L96. it is made of cheaper materials and less ergonomic, it is simply a meant for police practice and target shooting.

I did my best, researched, and produced. i hope this provides lots of help! Thanks![[User:SargeOverkill]]

Talk:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series

2010-09-23T23:27:23Z

SargeOverkill: /* How to distinguish-The Basics */

==How to distinguish-The Basics==
1st off for any one confused with whether a rifle is an R700 in an AICS chassis or an Accuracy international, look at the bolt! the AI l96 series uses a ball shape bolt at the end of a round piece of metal while the R700 uses a flat "Tab" bolt handle.

PM/L96A1:The PM, the Grandpops of all the Arctic Warfare series, it is robust and is in 7.62 NATO. It was called the '''l96A1''' by the Brit military until its replacement by the AWSM, the Super Magnum.

AW: The AW is the standard Arctic Warfare, it is only chambered in 7.62 NATO and .243, and has the smallest frame of all the AW series.

AWM: The AWM is the Arctic Warfare Magnum, slightly larger feed and operating system, due to it being chambered in .300 Win. Mag.

IMPORTANT: A surefire way to tell a standard AW from an AW magnum. Look at the magazine! The magnum is .300 WM so the magazine is clearly longer than the standard AW in 7.62 NATO.!!!

AWP: The AWP is for Police, so AWP standing for Arctic Warfare Police. It is always black, not olive drab or tan. It also has a shorter 24 in (610 mm) barrel in comparison to AW model. The AWP is normally chambered for 7.62 mm NATO/.308 Winchester or .243 Winchester ammunition. The AWP is similar to the AW AE which has a black finish, but is a cheaper non-military version of the AW series.

AWS: The AWS(Arctic Warfare Suppressed) is simply a standard AW in 7.62 NATO, with an elongated barrel with an attached suppressor, which unfortunately gives it the effectiveness of a .22 Magnum.

AWC: The AWC is the Arctic Warfare Covert. It is the Standard 7.62 AW with a folding stock, and has a Suppressor similar to a AWS but with a shorter, fatter suppressor. It is often stored and transported in a civilian suitcase.

AWSM: The Arctic Warfare Super magnum, the AWSM is the AW magnum in .338 Lapua. it is the '''G22''' in the German military.

AW50: The AW50 is a AW Magnum chambered in .50 BMG, it's extremely large loading system distinguishes it from others

AW50F: AW50F is the same as a AW50 except with a folding stock and a Madco custom barrel. This kind is uncommon because it is only used by the Australian Military.

AE: The AE is cheap alternative to the PM/L96. it is made of cheaper materials and less ergonomic, it is simply a meant for police practice and target shooting.

I did my best, researched, and produced. i hope this provides lots of help! Thanks![[User:SargeOverkill]]

Talk:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series

2010-09-23T23:27:03Z

SargeOverkill: /* How to distinguish-The Basics */

==How to distinguish-The Basics==
1st off for any one confused with whether a rifle is an R700 in an AICS chassis or an Accuracy international, look at the bolt! the AI l96 series uses a ball shape bolt at the end of a round piece of metal while the R700 uses a flat "Tab" bolt handle.

PM/L96A1:The PM, the Grandpops of all the Arctic Warfare series, it is robust and is in 7.62 NATO. It was called the '''l96A1''' by the Brit military until its replacement by the AWSM, the Super Magnum.

AW: The AW is the standard Arctic Warfare, it is only chambered in 7.62 NATO and .243, and has the smallest frame of all the AW series.

AWM: The AWM is the Arctic Warfare Magnum, slightly larger feed and operating system, due to it being chambered in .300 Win. Mag.

IMPORTANT: A surefire way to tell a standard AW from an AW magnum. Look at the magazine! The magnum is .300 WM so the magazine is clearly longer than the standard AW in 7.62 NATO.!!!

AWP: The AWP is for Police, so AWP standing for Arctic Warfare Police. It is always black, not olive drab or tan. It also has a shorter 24 in (610 mm) barrel in comparison to AW model. The AWP is normally chambered for 7.62 mm NATO/.308 Winchester or .243 Winchester ammunition. The AWP is similar to the AW AE which has a black finish, but is a cheaper non-military version of the AW series.

AWS: The AWS(Arctic Warfare Suppressed) is simply a standard AW in 7.62 NATO, with an elongated barrel with an attached suppressor, which unfortunately gives it the effectiveness of a .22 Magnum.

AWC: The AWC is the Arctic Warfare Convert. It is the Standard 7.62 AW with a folding stock, and has a Suppressor similar to a AWS but with a shorter, fatter suppressor. It is often stored and transported in a civilian suitcase.

AWSM: The Arctic Warfare Super magnum, the AWSM is the AW magnum in .338 Lapua. it is the '''G22''' in the German military.

AW50: The AW50 is a AW Magnum chambered in .50 BMG, it's extremely large loading system distinguishes it from others

AW50F: AW50F is the same as a AW50 except with a folding stock and a Madco custom barrel. This kind is uncommon because it is only used by the Australian Military.

AE: The AE is cheap alternative to the PM/L96. it is made of cheaper materials and less ergonomic, it is simply a meant for police practice and target shooting.

I did my best, researched, and produced. i hope this provides lots of help! Thanks![[User:SargeOverkill]]

Talk:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series

2010-09-23T23:26:06Z

SargeOverkill: /* How to distinguish-The Basics */

==How to distinguish-The Basics==
1st off for any one confused with whether a rifle is an R700 in an AICS chassis or an Accuracy international, look at the bolt! the AI l96 series uses a ball shape bolt at the end of a round piece of metal while the R700 uses a flat "Tab" bolt handle.

PM/L96A1:The PM, the Grandpops of all the Arctic Warfare series, it is robust and is in 7.62 NATO. It was called the '''l96A1''' by the Brit military until its replacement by the AWSM, the Super Magnum.

AW: The AW is the standard Arctic Warfare, it is only chambered in 7.62 NATO and .243, and has the smallest frame of all the AW series.

AWM: The AWM is the Arctic Warfare Magnum, slightly larger feed and operating system, due to it being chambered in .300 Win. Mag.

IMPORTANT: A surefire way to tell a standard AW from an AW magnum. Look at the magazine! The magnum is .300 WM so the magazine is clearly longer than the standard AW in 7.62 NATO.!!!

AWP: The AWP is for Police, so AWP standing for Arctic Warfare Police. It is always black, not olive drab or tan. It also has a shorter 24 in (610 mm) barrel in comparison to AW model. The AWP is normally chambered for 7.62 mm NATO/.308 Winchester or .243 Winchester ammunition. The AWP is similar to the AW AE which has a black finish, but is a cheaper non-military version of the AW series.

AWS: The AWS(Arctic Warfare Suppressed) is simply a standard AW in 7.62 NATO, with an elongated barrel with an attached suppressor, witch unfortunately gives it the effectiveness of a .22 Magnum.

AWC: The AWC is the Arctic Warfare Convert. It is the Standard 7.62 AW with a folding stock, and has a Suppressor similar to a AWS but with a shorter, fatter suppressor. It is often stored and transported in a civilian suitcase.

AWSM: The Arctic Warfare Super magnum, the AWSM is the AW magnum in .338 Lapua. it is the '''G22''' in the German military.

AW50: The AW50 is a AW Magnum chambered in .50 BMG, it's extremely large loading system distinguishes it from others

AW50F: AW50F is the same as a AW50 except with a folding stock and a Madco custom barrel. This kind is uncommon because it is only used by the Australian Military.

AE: The AE is cheap alternative to the PM/L96. it is made of cheaper materials and less ergonomic, it is simply a meant for police practice and target shooting.

I did my best, researched, and produced. i hope this provides lots of help! Thanks![[User:SargeOverkill]]

Talk:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series

2010-09-23T23:25:39Z

SargeOverkill: /* How to distinguish-The Basics */

==How to distinguish-The Basics==
1st off for any one confused with whether a rifle is an R700 in an AICS chassis or an Accuracy international, look at the bolt! the AI l96 series uses a ball shape bolt at the end of a round piece of metal while the R700 uses a flat "Tab" bolt handle.

PM/L96A1:The PM, the Grandpops of all the Arctic Warfare series, it is robust and is in 7.62 NATO. It was called the '''l96A1''' by the Brit military until its replacement by the AWSM, the Super Magnum.

AW: The AW is the standard Arctic Warfare, it is only chambered in 7.62 NATO and .243, and has the smallest frame of all the AW series.

AWM: The AWM is the Arctic warfare magnum, slightly larger feed and operating system, due to it being chambered in .300 Win. Mag.

IMPORTANT: A surefire way to tell a standard AW from an AW magnum. Look at the magazine! The magnum is .300 WM so the magazine is clearly longer than the standard AW in 7.62 NATO.!!!

AWP: The AWP is for Police, so AWP standing for Arctic Warfare Police. It is always black, not olive drab or tan. It also has a shorter 24 in (610 mm) barrel in comparison to AW model. The AWP is normally chambered for 7.62 mm NATO/.308 Winchester or .243 Winchester ammunition. The AWP is similar to the AW AE which has a black finish, but is a cheaper non-military version of the AW series.

AWS: The AWS(Arctic Warfare Suppressed) is simply a standard AW in 7.62 NATO, with an elongated barrel with an attached suppressor, witch unfortunately gives it the effectiveness of a .22 Magnum.

AWC: The AWC is the Arctic Warfare Convert. It is the Standard 7.62 AW with a folding stock, and has a Suppressor similar to a AWS but with a shorter, fatter suppressor. It is often stored and transported in a civilian suitcase.

AWSM: The Arctic Warfare Super magnum, the AWSM is the AW magnum in .338 Lapua. it is the '''G22''' in the German military.

AW50: The AW50 is a AW Magnum chambered in .50 BMG, it's extremely large loading system distinguishes it from others

AW50F: AW50F is the same as a AW50 except with a folding stock and a Madco custom barrel. This kind is uncommon because it is only used by the Australian Military.

AE: The AE is cheap alternative to the PM/L96. it is made of cheaper materials and less ergonomic, it is simply a meant for police practice and target shooting.

I did my best, researched, and produced. i hope this provides lots of help! Thanks![[User:SargeOverkill]]

Talk:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series

2010-09-23T23:24:42Z

SargeOverkill: /* How to distinguish-The Basics */

==How to distinguish-The Basics==
1st off for any one confused with whether a rifle is an R700 in an AICS chassis or an Accuracy international, look at the bolt! the AI l96 series uses a ball shape bolt at the end of a round piece of metal while the R700 uses a flat "Tab" bolt handle.

PM/L96A1:The PM, the Grandpops of all the Arctic Warfare series, it is robust and is in 7.62 NATO. It was called the '''l96A1''' by the Brit military until its replacement by the AWSM, the super Magnum.

AW:The AW is the standard Arctic Warfare, it is only chambered in 7.62 NATO and .243, and has the smallest frame of all the AW series.

AWM: The AWM is the Arctic warfare magnum, slightly larger feed and operating system, due to it being chambered in .300 Win. Mag.

IMPORTANT: A surefire way to tell a standard AW from an AW magnum. Look at the magazine! The magnum is .300 WM so the magazine is clearly longer than the standard AW in 7.62 NATO.!!!

AWP: The AWP is for Police, so AWP standing for Arctic Warfare Police. It is always black, not olive drab or tan. It also has a shorter 24 in (610 mm) barrel in comparison to AW model. The AWP is normally chambered for 7.62 mm NATO/.308 Winchester or .243 Winchester ammunition. The AWP is similar to the AW AE which has a black finish, but is a cheaper non-military version of the AW series.

AWS: The AWS(Arctic Warfare Suppressed) is simply a standard AW in 7.62 NATO, with an elongated barrel with an attached suppressor, witch unfortunately gives it the effectiveness of a .22 Magnum.

AWC: The AWC is the Arctic Warfare Convert. It is the Standard 7.62 AW with a folding stock, and has a Suppressor similar to a AWS but with a shorter, fatter suppressor. It is often stored and transported in a civilian suitcase.

AWSM: The Arctic Warfare Super magnum, the AWSM is the AW magnum in .338 Lapua. it is the '''G22''' in the German military.

AW50: The AW50 is a AW Magnum chambered in .50 BMG, it's extremely large loading system distinguishes it from others

AW50F: AW50F is the same as a AW50 except with a folding stock and a Madco custom barrel. This kind is uncommon because it is only used by the Australian Military.

AE: The AE is cheap alternative to the PM/L96. it is made of cheaper materials and less ergonomic, it is simply a meant for police practice and target shooting.

I did my best, researched, and produced. i hope this provides lots of help! Thanks![[User:SargeOverkill]]

Talk:Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series

2010-09-23T22:55:09Z

SargeOverkill: /* How to distinguish-The Basics */

==How to distinguish-The Basics==
1st off for any one confused with whether a rifle is an R700 in an AICS chassis or an Accuracy international, look at the bolt. the AI l96 series uses a ball shape bolt at the end of a round piece of metal while the R700 uses a flat "Tab" bolt handle

2nd. surefire way to tell a standard AW from an AW magnum. Look at the magazine! the magnum is .300 WM so the magazine is clearly longer than the standard AW in 7.62 NATO.

The AWP is fore Police, so AWP standing for Arctic Warfare Police. it is always black, not olive drab or tan. It also has a shorter 24 in (610 mm) barrel in comparison to AW model. The AWP is normally chambered for 7.62 mm NATO/.308 Winchester or .243 Winchester ammunition. The AWP is similar to the AW AE which has a black finish, but is a cheaper non-military version of the AW series.

AWS is simply a standard AW in 7.62 NATO, with an elongated barrel with an attached suppressor, witch unfortunately gives it the effectiveness of a .22 Magnum.

The AWC is the arctic warfare convert. it is the Standard 7.62 AW with a folding stock, and has a Suppressor similar to a AWS but with a shorter, fatter suppressor. it is often stored and transported in a civilian suitcase.

The AWSM is the AW magnum in .338 Lapua. it is the '''G22''' in the German military.

i will finish tommorow! for the sake of ease please do not edit this page or its discussion until i am finished. THANKS![[User:SargeOverkill]]