Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Grand Theft Auto V

2014-06-07T18:11:07Z

Recon42: /* "Carbine Rifle" mounting an image */

== new page and type 56-2 ==

Hi!
I made this kinda quick. Didn't have a lot of time to check errors.
I'm relatively new to the editing in this site. So if any veteran
around with more knowledge could help improve the article would be indeed
great.
When it comes to the weapon, I believe it's a Norinco Type 56-2 since the stock
looks like the one in a Type 56-2. Otherwise correct if I'm wrong.
Also one of the guys seems to have a laser sight. Don't know which sort though
[[User:Santos|Santos]] 17:08, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

The rifles seem to have some sort of rail system on them... which I think is a shame--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 10:55, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Most likely is the handguard with picatinny rails. The guy knocking on the van leading those other two men, seems to have a laser sight attached to it. This is a handguard is from FAB-Defense. http://www.fab-defense.com/images/big-details/ak-47-1.jpg

One of the screenshots mentions "excellent" trigger discipline, to me it looks like his finger is actually on the trigger as there is a small curve in the shape of the finger, I wouldn't refer to that as excellent trigger discipline. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:To me it looks like the guy is holding his finger just slightly above the trigger area, not excellent but still better than most games have, to be honest the only game i can remember that had great trigger discipline was MGS4 where Snake kept his finger completely off the triggers of all weapons unless he was aiming them, but i think that since they're both video games, bad trigger discipline can be excused since i doubt developers want to spend who knows how many hours giving every character separate finger animations for trigger discipline, and also there is the fact that the character can have their fingers wrapped around the triggers, but the players have theirs completely off the fire button, so essentially, it's our own 'trigger' discipline that video game characters have (least that's how i see it) we should save the bad trigger discipline arguments for movies.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 16:26, 8 March 2012 (CST)
::Add ''[[ArmA 2]]'' to the list of games with excellent trigger discipline. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 03:55, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

== M4? ==

Help to identify; looks like a M4 rifle with longer (?) and suppressed barrel. [[User:Pawelm|Pawelm]] ([[User talk:Pawelm|talk]]) 13:55, 10 November 2012 (EST)
[[Image:GTA5_AR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

I would say that it has a shorter barrel than an M4A1. I would say it's a suppressed [[Mk. 18 Mod 0]]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 14:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)

Suppressor resembles an AAC model which covers more of the barrel than the KAC suppressors we commonly see, so it's possible it could still be an M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:10, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:If it was an M4 length barrel, there would be no suppressor left to actually trap the gas to suppress the weapon. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:24, 10 November 2012 (EST)

looks like it has the older CAR-15 style stock [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:38, 11 November 2012 (EST)
:What people refer to as CAR-15s (XM177, XM177E1, XM177E2 etc) were fitted with a stock that was made of aluminium with a black polymer coating as seen [[Colt_AR-15_Identification_Guide#2nd_Generation_Collapsible|here]]. Later Colt carbines up to and including the M4 had a synthetic fiberlite stock as seen [[Colt_AR-15_Identification_Guide#3rd_Generation_Collapsible|here]]. The easiest way to tell them apart are the vertical reinforcing ribs that are present on the side of the fiberlite stock, which are present in the game gun. As this stock can be found on Mk. 18s, Model 933s and M4s (all of which this gun could be depending on how the suppressor fits) that doesn't really help. However as the gun has the slim handguard rather than the thicker double heat shield M4 handguard, my best guess would be a Mk. 18. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:03, 11 November 2012 (EST)
::What I think he meant was this is the 3rd Gen stock, the four-position plastic, not the newer six-position.--[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 02:43, 12 November 2012 (EST)
I've seen scans that show one of the other characters holding that weapon without a suppressor on it. I'd definitely go with Mk.18 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 01:12, 11 November 2012 (EST)

I'm sure that this is why this image is in this section, but I cant believe these animated pictures as validation for the weapons in the game. GTA IV had MANY weapons in the loading screens that for what ever reason never made it to the final product.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 20:05, 11 November 2012 (EST)

:Check the [[Grand Theft Auto IV]] page and you'll notice we include loading screen weapons on it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:16, 12 November 2012 (EST)

::If a weapon is in the game and can be identified, then it should be identified. This includes artwork, loading screens, stock footage, in-game posters, whatever; if it's a clear and identifiable shot it's included. Weapons only seen in previews can also be included as long as the image is from a legitimate source and not leaked. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:52, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Cover for the latest Game Informer magazine. You can see the suppressor is missing but the muzzle and the barrel is missing [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:03, 28 November 2012 (EST)
[[Image:GTA5_AR2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Weapon Selection hope==

So I don't know about most of you, but one of the worst aspects to these games is the frank lack of weapons for which you to use. I am not saying that the game doesn't need 100 different firearms, but there is no need to use the low level weapons once the higher tier weapons are unlocked (compare the Glock and Desert Eagle in GTA IV, how often do you use the Glock after unlocking). If nothing else I hope that this game has at least 3-4 variations in firearm. There are tons of vehicles to choose from, but you dont spend most of your time offing people with cars. Having to use the same repetitive weapon again and again bores me. What are your thoughts?--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 20:09, 11 November 2012 (EST)

Four or five options of each type sound good to me. I'm hoping we get a silenced pistol again this time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:21, 12 November 2012 (EST)

:@Spartan198, exactly! The way I have seen it (for example), in the pistol category there should be a standard (Glock), Hi standard (1911), Burst (Beretta 93R), Special (Silenced [if no ability to customize]), and Magnum (Desert Eagle/Equivilant). Now this is a very basic look, but I think you can catch my drift. Same thing for shotguns where there should be a Double Barrell (For range and/or sawed off), Pump (Mossberg), Semi Auto (Benelli M4), and Automatic (USAS-12/AA-12). You can make any adjustments for which weapons are in which category does not matter. But the differences. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 12:45, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Seeing the silenced 56-2s in the reveal; its likely.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 01:25, 12 November 2012 (EST)

I'm really hoping to see an [[Ithaca 37]] in this like in San Andreas, being that this is taking place in the same fictional Los Angeles. --[[User:QueenSasha24|QueenSasha24]] ([[User talk:QueenSasha24|talk]]) 04:01, 12 November 2012 (EST)

I'm really hoping for a SIG P226 myself this time around, but with the 92FS, that's looking unlikely. I like Valiant's system of classification, though. Using that system, I'd like to see assault rifles classified like this: an AKMS without a stock (low accuracy, short range), the Type 56 (medium accuracy, short range), the AR-15 variant (high accuracy, medium range), TAR-21 (high accuracy, long range). A grenade launcher attachment (if the weapons are customizable) would be nice, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:38, 19 April 2013 (EDT)

==Trailer 2==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzue74y7A84

The only new weapon I see looks to be an M4 type at 1:15. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:05, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Aaaargh! Why won't videos stream for me? It's been like this for the past 3 days! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 02:34, 15 November 2012 (EST)

== Trailer #2 Screenshots ==

[[File:Gta5-1.JPG|200px|thumb|none|AR15 platform rifle]]
[[File:Gta5-2.JPG|200px|thumb|none|The handguard is longer than M4-style one]]
[[File:Gta5-3.JPG|200px|thumb|none|AR15 style rifle, looks a bit like a HK416 to me, also the guy on the right has the same, or very similar gun]]

The rifle on the 3rd screencap looks like a HK416 variant (handguard with these thin vents). Also the rifle in 1st and 2nd screenshot seems to be different than the one in the 3rd. It has a black magazine, in games a gun rarely can have a mag swapped out. :D --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 10:06, 15 November 2012 (EST)

PS sorry for the black bars guys :\ --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 10:08, 15 November 2012 (EST)

:I'm guessing it is the same rifle in all 3 caps. Also, in the first screencap you can see the distinctive forward assist/brass deflector that is used on VLTOR VIS and MUR upper receivers ([[Media:NovesDiplomat.jpg|here]] is a picture of a Noveske Diplomat with a VIS upper showing the forward assist). Although these uppers are used on Noveske rifles, I don't think this is one as the handguard is wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:22, 15 November 2012 (EST)

It looks like more an AAC Honey Badger (look at the stock and the bolt) than an HK416 or AR-15-like rifle for the 3rd picture. --[[User:bonshomme|bonshomme]] ([[User talk:bonshomme|talk]])
:Several reasons why I don't think it is a Honey Badger: firstly, the stock on the Honey Badger extend on rails on the side of the receiver like an MP5, as opposed to this where it extends along the buffer tube in typical Colt Carbine fashion; secondly it appears that it has a VLTOR VIS/MUR upper receiver based on the design of the combined forward assist and brass deflector which the Honey Badger doesn't; lastly, even if you disagree that it is a VLTOR upper it definitely has a forward assist, which the Honey Badger does not just having a normal brass deflector. In what way do you think the bolt makes it a Honey Badger they are pretty much the same on a typical AR-15 and a Honey Badger aren't they? (with the exception of the FA serrations, but from these screenshots you cannot tell whether they are there or not.) --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:30, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

== Very usefull thing i found ==

Hey guys i think this thread has everything about Weapons for GTA V, GTA Fans are really great at spotting things http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=532181&st=0
--[[User:Faizanali|Faizanali]] ([[User talk:Faizanali|talk]]) 03:38, 20 November 2012 (EST)
: As a member of GTA Forums, I can reliably say that anything you see there should be taken with the biggest dose of salt in history. Like, something from Big Bone Lick State Park. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 04:06, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== 1911 and Glock ==
A new artwork was revealed, and it has a 1911 and a glock variant. We should put on the main page?--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] ([[User talk:Flavio|talk]]) 15:16, 4 January 2013 (EST)
[[Image:GTA5_PISTOLS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== New trailers ==

There's new guns found in the trailer of GTA V. [[User:bonshomme|bonshomme]] ([[User talk:bonshomme|talk]]) 18:06, 30 April 2013 (EST)
[[Image:ar-15 variant.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This is an AR-15 variant, the same as seen in the trailer 2.]]
[[Image:ar-15 variant 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closer view of the variant.]]
[[Image:assault rifle gta v trailer.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A new assault rifle, I can't identify it.]]
[[Image:pistol gta v trailer.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pistol. I can't identify it.]]
[[Image:pistol gta v trailer 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pistol. It seems this is a Beretta 92FS.]]
[[Image:type 56 gangster.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Type 56-2 in the hands of a gangster.]]
[[Image:type 56 trevor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Trevor shoots his type 56-2.]]
[[Image:mossberg 590 cruiser gta v new stock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A new stock on Franklin's Mossberg 590 Cruiser.]]

I got some better images of the weapons that I'll be adding to the article. Here's a better shot of the unknown rifle; it looks kinda like a SCAR-H, but there's bits that aren't right.

Looks more like a weird FAL--[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 15:42, 30 April 2013 (EDT)

[[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 12:41, 30 April 2013 (EDT)
[[Image:Gtavgun1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Also, here's a shot of the pistol used by Michael in the rappelling scene. I can't identify it, but it almost looks to have an orange tip like an airsoft gun and no hammer. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 12:58, 30 April 2013 (EDT)
[[Image:Gtavgun4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[http://gyazo.com/ca7fae1d3d648ca8a2623bb5adb2bbbf.png?1367374112]] Not sure if it's a Hi-Power or 1911, on Michael's TV. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:11, 30 April 2013 (EDT)

Yeah, I'm also thinking some kind of short-barreled FAL for the new AR, judging by the magazine and shape of the mag well. It and the Tavor are certainly new and different choices considering GTA's past being dominated by the combo of an AK and M16 variants, which is a good thing. That's four assault rifles altogether now so far (five if the CQBR on concept art shown above is included in the game), so let's hope the other weapon categories have as diverse a selection. And considering how big the weapon selection in [[Red Dead Redemption|RDR]] was, I'm feeling pretty confident about it. Maybe my wish for a P226 could still come to pass after all? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:10, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

Here's a higher resolution cropped image of the mystery rifle.

[[File:GTA5 Mystery Gun.jpg]]

It has the heat shield, gas block, and front sight of an M249, the magazine looks more like a belt bag, and the stock looks derived from the fixed stock of the Masada/ACR. The optic is an out-of-scale Elcan SpecterDR and it has a Magpul AFG2 foregrip. The receiver area lacks details, but I'm going to hazard a guess that it's some kind of M249-based machine gun. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:15, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

Now that you said that I start to see it, but my first bet was FAL, in the end it could just be a butchered MG, the stock doesn't somehow look m249ish to me and the heat shield seems tiny.--[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 11:13, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

:After re-watching the trailer, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a [http://media.gtanet.com/gallery/gta-5-screenshots/RSG_GTAV_Screenshot_202.jpg light machine gun]. The ammo pouch gets a bit more obvious in motion and it's certainly an ammo pouch, not a 20 round 7.62 magazine. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 04:05, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

::I bet it turns out to be something ''really'' stoopid like an LSAT with a modified handguard. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:34, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

:::That horrified me for a moment, but I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing that LSAT is tucked a bit further away then the pool of common firearms that appear in GTA. It will be some monstrosity of the natural order regardless. -[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 14:57, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

Seems to be a new pistol, but I can't ID it.[http://www.thegtaplace.com/images/gtav/screenshots/RSG_GTAV_Screenshot_204.jpg]] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:52, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

Could be a beretta. Weird pouch like a 50 rounder or something, but yeah now its definitely an butchered mg. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 06:35, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

:Underside of the trigger guard is straight, all Beretta models are rounded downward. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:25, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

DRD Tactical Paratus? [[User:Thomas|Thomas]] ([[User talk:Thomas|talk]]) 10:33, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

You mean the one to the left (its more likely an M4 would make sense for a game not centered around gun pron to have a generic well known firearm rather than some obscure one) if you mean the MG probably even more unlikely to me for now its seems like a franke-gun or at least a horribly scaled one. On a side note look at the one in the case the sight seems to be open http://media.edge-online.com/wp-content/uploads/edgeonline/2013/05/GTA-V-Heists.jpg and definetely a glock held by the guy in the picture little way above http://assets.vr-zone.net/19885/GTA_V_MFT.png -[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 17:00, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

:Spartan, gun models in video games can differ from their real life counterparts. It looks like a Beretta to me. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 18:47, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
::Which gun are you talking about, the one pictured immediately above named "File:GTA5 Mystery Gun.jpg"? If so you need to look at [http://media.gtanet.com/gallery/gta-5-screenshots/RSG_GTAV_Screenshot_202.jpg this] image again, as it clearly shows that what looks like a mag from the side is actually a belt bag. Also you have the fact that the front sight and gas block are a match for a Minimi, and what can be seen of the receier in this grainy image is also pretty close. The only obvious differences are the furniture with the stock and handguard being different, and that the scaling is off. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:13, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
:::Commando, I was actually talking about this pistol: [http://www.thegtaplace.com/images/gtav/screenshots/RSG_GTAV_Screenshot_204.jpg]] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 20:28, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

Thats what I already said, since the game obviously has one in it, it's probably a beretta. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 05:59, 4 May 2013 (EDT)
:I know, I was agreeing with you because Spartan said that it couldn't be a Beretta with the squared trigger guard. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 09:57, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

Sorry came of a bit rude , I meant to accentuate the fact that beretta is probably what everyone will think it is in the first place since it is confirmed to be in the game and beretta's have that distinct look of the slide,besides there's no reason to believe its some other gun since GTA's have tried to bring multiple weapons (AK's,AR's), instead of doing the COD thing and putting in several AR based ones, since they usually have a limited pool (like 3 in a category I believe) --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 13:09, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

*I was almost going to say it looked like a [[SIG SG 552|SIG552]], but the straight-edge magazine (rather than curved) says otherwise. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 02:32, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/GrandTheftAutoV/1280%20(1).jpg Looks like a 1911 or Hi-Power in Michael's hand. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:42, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

I can almost guaranty that the handgun above is another Beretta. If you look closely you can see the exposed barrel from the cutaway slide and you can barely make out the step in at the end of the barrel which a characteristic shared among all 92-series handguns.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 16:02, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

== New pictures ==

New pictures of guns in GTA V. [[User:bonshomme|bonshomme]] ([[User talk:bonshomme|talk]]

[[Image:ar-15 variant gta v 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A very close view of the AR-15 variant.]]
[[Image:GTAV_RPG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A RPG-7 based of the Airtronic RPG-7.]]
[[Image:gta v m134 without green camo.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The handheld GE M134 without it's green finition.]]
[[Image:strange thing.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Look at the strange object the red guy is holding....]]
[[Image:gta v lmg (maybe M249).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another view of the AR-15 variant, this time with a new LMG.]]
[[Image:franklin's beretta 92fs.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Franklin's Beretta.]]
does anyone notice that Franklins Beretta has a Glock trigger guard? --[[User:Policerlhpd|Policerlhpd]] ([[User talk:Policerlhpd|talk]]) 03:57, 8 June 2013 (EDT)
[[Image:mossberg 590 cruiser gta v night.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Franklin at night with his Mossberg 590 Cruiser. I guess this is his favorite weapon.]]
[[Image:gta v ar-15 variant.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Again, the AR-15 variant. Last time I put it here.]]
[[Image:gta v mossberg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Again, the Mossberg.]]
:[[Image:strange thing.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Look at the strange object the red guy is holding....]]
:That's a camera. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:40, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

Yup camera 99% (since there is the same one in the SUV), seems that this game will sport gun customization at least color, the green Tavor,the green mini, and now the green shotty. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 09:26, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

I see a lot of influence from [[Heat]]. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 03:20, 8 May 2013 (EDT)

Yeah probably, but that is the trend in general with GTA's they put in references to movies and pop culture all the time. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 05:04, 8 May 2013 (EDT)

O yea, I know. This isn't my first GTA game by far. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 06:53, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

It's even right in the game, this time. According to an in-depth preview I watched on YouTube, Michael takes his ideas for heists directly from the game universe's versions of such movies. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:30, 8 May 2013 (EDT)

So is rockstar going to release the preview cause, all I have found right now is people talking for an hour about it .--[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 04:50, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

:They haven't released any public gameplay demos, no. At least none that I've seen yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:20, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

:As soon as they do, the media's going to be all over it. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 17:22, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

Here's a clearer picture of the pistol Franklin is holding in a previous screenshot.

[[File:Gtav pistol franklin.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Looks like some kind of cross between a Beretta and a Desert Eagle. It might be the "pistol .50" being offered as preorder DLC. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 11:25, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Seems like a different gun from the one in the above, I mean this probably is just a horrible DE, maybe work in progress, although GTA was never on top in weapons department. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 06:33, 14 June 2013 (EDT

http://www.gtav.net/screenshots/ - collection of official screenshots, might contain some weapons not already talked about. [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

== Gameplay Video ==

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/07/09/first-grand-theft-auto-v-gameplay-video/

Go ahead and spot 'em. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 11:58, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

Dammit, Rockstar, take my money already! At 3:15, I can see an AW-type sniper rifle, a multi-shot grenade launcher (it looks similar to the hybrid grenade launcher in [[Resident Evil (2002 VG)|Resident Evil Remake]]), and a roll of dynamite in the weapon wheel. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:12, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

http://gyazo.com/946b75dda4df617e58df36a566d7812a.png Got a screencap of Franklin with a tan M82A1M.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:01, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

== Article on GTA V Gunplay ==
Found this article about the evolution of GTA V's gunplay on GTA Place. [http://www.gameinformer.com/games/grand_theft_auto_v/b/xbox360/archive/2013/07/09/grand-theft-auto-v-gun-combat.aspx] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 22:39, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

== New picture. ==

[[File:GTA5UNKNOWNPIST2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

[[User:Bonshomme|Bonshomme]] 14:00, 10 July 2013 (CDT)

Is that seriously a rail on the side of the slide? [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 05:27, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

::Okay, I'm definitely not getting this game! Rockstar has always failed with the guns department (except in Max Payne 3), and that thing looks absolutely hideous. I'm done with the GTA series... Maybe when someone makes a skin mod for the guns, I'll get a copy... -.- --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 08:50, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::: Good. That leaves a copy for me. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:01, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::::As if there will not be enough copies to go around, eh? --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 15:56, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:::While you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I always consider gun accuracy a +1 for me, incorrect weapon details isn't really much of a reason to not buy a game IMO (hell, I still got my copy of BO1). Again you are entitled to your opinion.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 11:06, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:::: While I'm glad you won't be playing the game so as to avoid running into some joyless bother online, it seems to me more likely that the gun is a supposed to be some manner of TDI Kard, than whatever 1911/glock designed solely to offend your sensibilities you think it is. --[[User:Toadvine|Toadvine]] ([[User talk:Toadvine|talk]]) 17:18, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::You have been playing too much Black Ops 2 if you think there is anything about that remotely resembling a Kard. It obviously has a conventional pistol layout with a slide, and the frame and general outline suggests a 1911. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:25, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::::Well, you know what they say: opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one. I'm just sayin' you can't deny the fact that that... ''THING'' looks like a fugly frankengun, that should never see the light of day. I'm still hopin Rockstar has upped their gunplay from previous GTA titles, and made the gunplay (and the guns themselves) in this one a bit more realistic. You know, since they seem to be makin' this game another ground-breakin' masterpiece... Plus, I don't play with naive fanboys... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 18:42, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::If you would take the time to look at the trailer and use your words rather than skip to some nonsense about Black Ops 2, a game I haven't played not that it even matters, you might notice that Franklin uses the same pistol later in the trailer, his is fitted with an extended magazine and is seemingly firing on full auto, so, my suggestion that it's TDI Kard, I thought, might make a bit more sense than just losing your mind and writing off a whole title based on the appearance of a single handgun in the game. I can see how that might read as naivete though, I've had the wool pulled over my eyes and have been tricked into accepting a game in spite of the massive flaws it's exhibited in the design of one of it's firearms in a few seconds of footage and a screenshot or two, right?--[[User:Toadvine|Toadvine]] ([[User talk:Toadvine|talk]]) 12:27, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
::::::Yes. Btw, are you directing that comment to me or Commando552? --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 16:45, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::At least some of it was directed at me so will address that part first. If your only evidance for it being a Kard is that it fires on full auto, then you should know that there are many other production pistols that are capable of full auto fire, not to mention the fact that it is possible to convert pistols to full automatic. Regardless of this, it is a game where they can give a gun whatever characteristics they choose so whether or not it is depicted as firing in full auto means nothing in real terms. Secondly, I have to say again it looks absolutely nothing like a Kard. If you can't see this then there is nothing that I can say to change your mind, but when I look at it I see absolutely nothing about the gun that suggests they based anything off of the Kard. If you put a gun to my head and made me take a guess at what it is meant to be I would probably say I highly customised (or very poorly modeled) full auto Glock, or maybe something like an Arsenal Strike One (which is available in FA/burst versions) but the shape is not really anything like one, it is just reminiscent of one if the "rail" on the front of the slide was actually the front slide serrations. In general can everyone chill out a bit about this game, we could do without the GTA talk pages degrading into a bitch fest like the COD ones historically have. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:51, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
::::::::I have to agree with Commando on the fact that it looks nothing like a Kard. Maybe a fuse of a badly-rendered Glock and a I9II... I also have to agree with Commando on the latter; regardless of my opinion on the possible depiction of guns/gunlay, there's no doubt that GTA V is going to be a great game (knowing Rockstar). Altough I still stand by my comment about not acquiring the game in the future, I realize that I shouldn't have been so outspoken about it, especially here, on the IMFDB. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 22:25, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
Well, look at MoH:WF, a game with accurate gun play but pretty mediocre everywhere else. Your opinion is yours, but what about Read Dead Redemption?[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 11:38, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:Well don't get me wrong. I care about other elements besides gunplay such as gameplay and story. And as for RDR it was pretty accurate aside from a few minor mistakes.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 12:05, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::I agree with you, RDR was, and still is, pretty awesome. I still play it with my friends sometimes. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 18:42, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
Speaking of rails on the slide, it's been confirmed that we get weapon AND car customization to a pretty nice degree. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:19, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::Don't get me wrong, I always enjoy the stories and the messages Rockstar provides in their games. But I've never been a fan of the GTA-gunplay. I'll be going for Saints Row IV this fall, instead of this. At least they don't even TRY to make the game realistic, so the gunplay is WAAAAY over the top. But that just makes it fun. PS. I enjoyed MOH:W... well, to a certain degree.--[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 15:56, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
::: Well, the gunplay that we've seen in the trailer (and confirmed in interviews) actually comes much more from Max Payne 3. You can run and gun without needing to aim and slow your movement, as well as switch between hard lock, soft lock, and full free aim in the options to suit your play style. You've still got the cover shooting and blindfiring, but you can actually be mobile in gunfights. There's also new options like being able to get in and out of a car while staying low to take cover behind it, as well as entering and exiting a car already shooting. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:33, 16 July 2013 (EDT)

Has anyone considered that the pistol above could be a placeholder for something more real.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 15:40, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:Its a possibility but given how we're two months away from release its unlikely.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:18, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

I don't think it is a placeholder, but I think there is a possibility that it is a bug where the wrong texture is on the model or it is using the low detail distance model or something, as there are several inconsistencies that make not sense. Firstly you have the fact that there is what appears to be a rail (which is scaled way too small) on the side of the slide. Then you have those weird horizontal black lines at the front of the slide and frame. Assuming that the black square at the back is meant to be the slide serrations, they span across both the slide and the top of the frame, which I have never seen on a real pistol. There are generally also lines all over the place on both the slide and frame which have no business being there on either a real gun, or a gun that is suggested by the silhouette of this. To top it off it also looks like it is ejecting rifle sized brass, but this is really the least of its problems. To me this gun looks ''so'' bad that it must be an error or something. It isn't just low detailed or simplified, or with random parts switched out for aesthetics, it actually appears deliberately FUBAR'd for no apparent reason. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:17, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

I'm inclined to agree with Commando. All the guns on the page are designed relatively accurately except this one, which makes me think it's a texture bug. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 22:22, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

The Pistol is This ? Houge 1911 Avenger System - [[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] ([[User talk:KINKI'boy|talk]]) 22:48, 6 August 2013 (JST)
[[File:1911 Avenger System.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hogue 1911 Avenger System]]

== AR 15 reloading ==

Did anyone notice in the new gameplay video that when Franklin pulls the charging handle of his AR15, a empty shell falls ?

Does that means that his gun jammed, or Rockstar Games made a shell fall each time the charging handle is pulled ? [[User:Zebracherub|Zebracherub]] ([[User talk:Zebracherub|talk]]) 10 July 2013 (GMT)

:Probably the latter. And sign your posts by typing four tildes after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:32, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

: It seems like they're doing the same thing as Metal Gear Solid 4, where Snake always racks the charging handle (ejecting an unfired round if it's a mid-mag reload) to chamber a fresh round after inserting the new magazine. This lets them stay realistically detailed while avoiding the +1 confusing that more casual players would have; keep it simple. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 16:23, 20 July 2013 (EDT)
::It really is kinda stupid and kinda lazy for animating a reload. Instead of programing someone doing nothing when you do a mid mag reload, they just left the reload animation program run, and I think the extra round coming out is really for the Hollywood effect. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:02, 21 July 2013 (EDT)
:: It's easier and less resource intensive to add a simple model of a cartridge flying out and use the same animation every time. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:01, 31 July 2013 (EDT)
Didn't he pull the charging handle a bit too far? [[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 16:20, 17 July 2013 (EDT)
::Looks pretty normal to me [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:06, 17 July 2013 (EDT)

Wouldn't also be more confortable to just hit the bolt release ? If doing a mid mag reload, nothing to do because a round is chambered, but it seems more natural to me to just hit the bolt release than racking the charging handle. [[User:Zebracherub|Zbracherub]] ([[User talk:Zebracherub|talk]]) 06:05, 28 July 2013 (GMT)

:It would, but this is GTA, where any random joe can hop in and know how to pilot a fighter plane or kill hundreds of people at a time without Homeland Security (or NOOSE, as they're called in-game) locking the city down like Guantanamo Bay NS, so it's not that big a deal IMO. Besides, I'd say this is just Rockstar showing off and proving they're still the pimps of the gaming industry. Aaargh! Why won't September 17th get here sooner?! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 03:08, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

Theres lots of screen shots on the official site, some with weapons (an MP5 being fired by a SWAT member from an SUV). As for the flying part I thought they confirmed only Trevor is good at flying, it is possible there are missions the others learn to do that, SA had them, and we don't really know Niko didn't have any background in flying, Vercetti had little background at all and he was pretty old. As for the killing part most games have that I mean look at shooters even if we ignore the regeneration its quite improbable that one men can take out 20 in open shootout. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 12:32, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

:Nope, all three characters can operate any vehicle in the game, each one is just going to be better in one area than the others. This was confirmed by Rockstar in a Q&A posted on TGTAP forums. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:46, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

== CTAR-21 ==

I only noticed after editing the G11 to a CTAR-21, but does nayone know if this is meant to be the same gun just in different builds?
[[File:GTAVPossibleAUG.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[File:GTAV TAR-21.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
From the fact that it is someone using the gun firing from a helicopter, at another helicopter, I would assume that this is the same piece of gameplay just with altered models. The confusing thing though is that the picture with the better correctly looking CTAR-21 is from November last year, as opposed to the crappy modded for no reason Tavor which is from a recent gameplay trailer. This would suggest that either the recent gameplay trailers used a '''very''' out of date build, or they deliberately messed with the weapons to make them less correct at some point during development, I would guess for legal reasons. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:05, 6 August 2013 (EDT)
: It's fully possible that they altered the models to make them look different purely because they liked it better that way. They're making entertainment that looks good, not real-life gun porn. Aesthetic considerations are important. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:43, 15 August 2013 (EDT)
This is from the multiplayer trailer. It's definitely not in the TAR-21 family.
[[File:Gta5 online 32.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

A new screenshot was released showing a closer shot of the Tavor and it seems to have a P90-style fore-end.

[[File:GTA5-Tavor-Helicopter.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:06, 7 September 2013 (EDT)

== New Pictures ==

Two new photos have been released of a sniper rifle and that AP Pistol. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:49, 15 August 2013 (EDT)

[[Image:gtav10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[Image:gtav11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Also, I need to work at getting some caps from the new multiplayer trailer. But the apparent CTAR-21 (known in-game as the Advanced Rifle) actually doesn't really look like said gun in the final game except in the barest sense.

== New SMG ==

Thanks to iNero from GTA Forums for the picture. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 16:40, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

[[Image:gtasmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Looks like an oversized MP5A3.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 18:16, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
:: Highly doubt that. The only part of the shape that really matches an MP5A3 is the stock, and it has a short, straight magazine. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 15:03, 23 August 2013 (EDT)
:::Well as for the short mag, Rockstar said that weapon customization is going to be featured. So maybe the 10 round (civilian legal?) magazines is going to be an option. Also straight MP5 mags do exist. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:47, 23 August 2013 (EDT)
:::Straight MP5 magazines are older ones, and that doesn't match the pattern. The magwell is also too large for the magazine and it's sticking out at an awkward angle. And again, there's absolutely nothing that actually resembles an MP5 except for maybe the stock. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 17:25, 23 August 2013 (EDT)
:::Looking at the SMGs currently documented on the site, I think it now looks similar to a [[FAMAE SAF]]
[[Image:SAF.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAE SAF - 9x19mm]]
[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 17:33, 23 August 2013 (EDT)

Who labeled it a CZ Scorpion EVO 3? Looks a little like in the lower receiver/trigger guard area, but the rest is more MP5/SAF.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 14:23, 25 September 2013 (EDT)

:It looks like an MP5 with a sort of super-short G3 handguard. There's a closeup of it on one of the loading screens. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:00, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

== M82? ==

Is it just me, or does the rifle in the first picture of the "Unknown Sniper Rifle" section (the one Franklin is holding on the roof) look a lot like an M82 variant? it has the muzzle brake and what we see of the body has the general shape. I don't have the pic now, but a recently released photo shows the sniper rifle on the weapon wheel photo and it's NOT the same gun. It actually looks closer to an Accuracy International rifle. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 03:39, 26 August 2013 (EDT)

It's a Barrett all right, check this screencap.
http://gyazo.com/946b75dda4df617e58df36a566d7812a.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:38, 26 August 2013 (EDT)

== GTA Online Rifle ==
Found this over on Grand Theft Wiki.

[[File:GTAOnlineRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

They have it identified as a SCAR-L, but it's hard to make out. General shape is right for a SCAR, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:58, 2 September 2013 (EDT)

== MK18 artwork ==
I separated it from the LR300 section since they clearly aren't the same weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 14:55, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

==Smith and Wesson M&P or Springfield XD? Can't identify.==
A person on another forum posted this pic of Michael holding a nickle plated handgun but the view is only from the top. I don't think it's a Glock because of the way the ejection port looks but I might be wrong. I can't see an exposed hammer. Any help?

http://media.gtanet.com/gallery/gta-5-screenshots/fullsize/344.jpg

It could be a colored "AP Pistol". Paint jobs are among the weapon customization options. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:39, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
: I don't think so. The side rails on the slide are so thick that they would be visible in this image. On GTA Forums there are suggestions that it's a S&W semi-auto. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 07:59, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
::The side rails on the AP pistol are just on the texture and not on the model aren't they? With a new skin the AP pistol could look totally different. Either way there isn't enough to go on from that shot to determine what it is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:17, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
:: It's difficult to tell. One other thing that makes me less convinced that it's the AP Pistol is that this gun has noticeable sights (The AP Pistol distinctly lacks them in all screenshots), and it seems to have a shorter barrel. It's almost definitely a separate gun, unless the customization options are more in-depth than we thought. Another suggestion might be a Taurus 24/7 or similar, as that gun is striker-fired, definitely comes in that finish, and has a similar sight profile from the top. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 22:03, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

Side thought - is the AR that Franklin is holding missing the end of the buttstock or is that texture clipping? --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 15:10, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
: Pretty sure that's just clipping. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 22:03, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

== Game Guide leak ==

Pics of the official game guide are turning up online.
http://imgur.com/a/ov4Rc#ZQjg5L3
http://imgur.com/a/vnbVM

No pics of the SMG or LMG sections yet. If you search for GTA V ammunation on youtube you'll find offscreen footage of a guy walking around the gun shop. You can see some sort of RPK clone on the wall.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 11:53, 12 September 2013 (EDT)
: No RPK, but the early game machine gun (the "MG") is pretty much just a PKM. Virtually all of the weapons in the game are already on the page. There's also an Assault Shotgun (which some say looks like a UTS 15 with a box magazine to resemble an AA-12), a sawed-off pump-action that may also be based on a Mossberg 500/590, the Combat Pistol (silver pistol held by Michael in the recently released trio pic, which reminds me of a Taurus PT 24/7 or Ruger P-series like the P97 with a stainless slide), and a Taser. The "unknown pistol" in the article is the PT92, which is apparently chambered in .45 ACP with a standard 12 round magazine. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 00:05, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

== New SMG ==
This is an exclusive unlock for joining the Rockstar social club.

[[File:SC SMG.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Not sure what it is myself. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:31, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

As far as I can see, it's 100% fictional. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 05:06, 14 September 2013 (EDT)

:Yeah, seems so. And ugly as hell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 15:08, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

:I see a birdcage flash hider, and the rest looks like the Halo 2/3 Battle Rifle. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 00:11, 17 September 2013 (EDT)

::Now that you mentioned that, I looked up what Halo battle rifle looks like, and I think this submachine gun might have also borrowed some design decisions from Halo's submachine gun. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 02:09, 17 September 2013 (EDT)

:It also has a resemblance to the RCP-120 from Perfect Dark. [[User:RadiumMetal|RadiumMetal]] ([[User talk:RadiumMetal|talk]]) 17:21, 22 September 2013 (EDT)

== Barrett M-107 A1? ==

[[File:GTA5SNIPER1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

The muzzle brake and the right side of the gun, and also the color is very similar to the M-107 A1 than the AS50, is it real?

Check out the Gyazo link in my posts above. If you pause at the right moment, the rifle is a Barrett with a raised full length rail.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:36, 16 September 2013 (EDT)

== Combat Pistol ==

After unlocking the Combat Pistol in the game and using it quite a bit I'm thinking that it resembles some sort of HK pistol. Initially I thought it was like a USP Compact but I've thought it might be more like a HK45 or HK45c. I'm not sure though as at first I thought it was a Px4. Anyone else have any ideas what it could be? --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 10:39, 20 September 2013 (EDT)
:The [http://gta.wikia.com/Weapons_in_GTA_V GTA Wiki] lists the combat pistol as the Taurus (well, they say Beretta but we know what they mean), or is that not the case in the final game? Also, that page has a picture of the assault shotgun, which appears to be an [[UTAS UTS-15]] which has been slightly messed with and had a box mag stuck on the bottom. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:51, 20 September 2013 (EDT)
::The basic pistol is the Taurus not the combat pistol. They list the basic pistol as a P99 so it could be that the combat pistol is a P99. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 15:53, 20 September 2013 (EDT)
::I concur, the Combat Pistol definitely looks like a P99 to me. Glad they didn't rehash the 1911 or Glock again for the umpteenth time (not that I don't love 1911s and Glocks, I very much do ;D ). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:38, 21 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Having got a decent look at it today I don't think it's a P99. It's got an exposed hammer and the general shape it more like a Beretta Px4 having taken a much closer look at it. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 18:45, 21 September 2013 (EDT)
::::I'm only going by a tiny thumbnail (don't have the game) but it looks a bit like a [[CZ-G2000]] with a less sever angles around the trigger. This is pretty similar to the PX4, but I think it is a closer match as it has a square trigger guard and doesn't have an ambi safety (thumbnail I've seen is of the right side which lacks a safety). The profiling of the slide is also closer and the serrations look the same design (although there is one less band at both the front and back). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:37, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
::::I'd rather say a Px4 at this point. I've seen it up close (I DO have the game) and it looks a lot more like it was based on the Px4. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 13:06, 26 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::I'm going to say having spend about half an hour moving the camera around trying to get really close shots of it that it is a Px4 more than anything else. The slide profile matches, the frame matches, the back of it matches. The only thing that doesn't match is the width of the slide serrations but that could just be a texture choice. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 12:53, 28 September 2013 (EDT)
::::::I'm going to venture a guess and say it's a combo of a Px4 and a P99, with the Px4 traits shining out the most. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 22:05, 28 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I don't know who it was who put the combat pistol as the H&K P2000 but it looks nothing like that. If it looks like any H&K pistol it's either the HK45c or the P30. I'm still leaning towards the Beretta Px4 though. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 08:30, 29 September 2013 (EDT)

Picked up the guide yesterday evening while I was out and the "Combat Pistol" shown in it matches the general shape of the P2000, actually. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 11:20, 29 September 2013 (EDT)
:No one else sees a bit of the PT-909 in it?
[[File:Tau.jpg|thumb|none|800px]]
Remember no gun will be an exact match. They're all tweaked.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:10, 29 September 2013 (EDT)

http://gyazo.com/4758e01a97e67d85191a02b267d98a60.png
The trigger guard and rail look P2000, but the rest resembles the Px4 to me.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 14:13, 20 October 2013 (EDT)

== Combat MG ==
It's not a Stoner, but rather an M60/M249 hybrid. Basically the stock of an M60, while everything in front of is is M249. Making appropriate changes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:38, 21 September 2013 (EDT)

== Guns on the TV programs ==

Killed a bit of time as Michael and watched the TV at his house. One of the channels was a FIB program called 'The Underbelly of Paradise'. One of the highlights was a few weapons on a table and one of the guns was a SIG P220-series pistol. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 21:57, 21 September 2013 (EDT)

There's also a brief shot of an M1911A1 cycling on an old-style crime show/movie and if you watch Jimmy playing ''Righteous Slaughter'' (a CoD/MoH/BF parody) in his room, the game character uses an XCR and a stainless steel Desert Eagle wielded tandem with a knife in the Harris stance. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 11:08, 29 September 2013 (EDT)

And the preview for the in-game movie ''The Simian'', which I saw while hanging out with Jimmy at a movie theater, has several shots of Hunter attack helicopters and at least one clear shot of the M230 chain gun on one of them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:25, 29 September 2013 (EDT)

== What's up with the Carbine Rifle changes? ==

Uhhh... Guys? The new Carbine really looks like the LR-300 and I thought it was agreed on. I don't know why we needed the change. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 20:03, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
:I wasn't the one who changed it, but I 100% agree with the change. First off, it isn't an LR-300 as the overriding unique feature about the LR-300 is that it doesn't have a buffer tube. This gun has a buffer tube. That is before we even get into the fact that the game gun has different furniture and a VLTOR MUR receiver rather than the unique LR-300 one. As with most of the weapons in the game this appears to be a hybrid gun at best, so it can't really be given a proper ID other than a custom AR-15. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:12, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
:The assault rifle looks like a Hecker & Koch HK416 to me. -[[User:1morey]] September 25, 2013 8:43 AM (EST)
::It isn't, as far as I can tell there is not a single part on this that matches the HK416: the upper has the brass deflector built into the front of the forward assist like on a VLTOR MUR; the magazine fence on an HK416 is rounded whereas on this it is flat making it look more like one of the many different billet lowers that are available from various manufacturers; the stock is an ACE stocj which appears to be incorrectly depicted as extendable; the handguard is possibly a Daniel Defence MFR, but if not is definitely isn't a piston HK416 one. None of these parts are really perfect matches, but seeing the quality of the models on the other guns this isn't really to be expected. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:36, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Hmm...after looking through the M16 gallery, and the Colt AR-15 identification guide, and doing some googling, It seems like it COULD POSSIBLY be a hybrid of a Daniel Defense MFR and ZM LR-300, while trying to look like a HK416 (beefy handguard and short barrel), I can't shake it, to me it screams Franken-HK416, don't know why. -[[User:1morey]] September 25, 2013 1:02 PM (EST)
::::Look at the forwards assist and brass deflector area of this gun:[[File:GTAV_AR15.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]Note how the forward assist is a large flat faced wedge with the plunger coming out the bottom half of it, with a brass deflector attached at the top front corner. Now compare that to the below image:[[File:NovesDiplomat.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Noveske Rifleworks N4 Diplomat with VLTOR Modstock, EOTech sight and Surefire M900 weapon-light fore-grip - 5.56x45mm]]Notice they are a match. This is a unique thing that is only found on VLTOR MUR and VIS upper receivers (one pictured above is a VIS, MUR is the version without a monolithic handguard) and is due to the forward assist being able to be removed and replaced with a blanking plate fitted only with a brass deflector. Both the HK416 and the Z-M variants used different upper receiver designs to this, so it isn't either of them. I doubt that this is any factory gun in particular, it could be that the modellers just picked and chose various parts and stuck them together to make a gun they liked the look of, or it could be modelled off of a real custom gun that somebody has made. I don't get why people seem to think this is a HK416 (not just you, have seen people all over the place call it that) if the only thing they are going on is the fact it has a short barrel and a chunky handguard, there are a hell of a lot of guns that fit this description and are a closer match than an HK416, like this [[Media:POF P-416-11.JPG|Patriot Ordnance Factory P416]] for example. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:27, 25 September 2013 (EDT)
:All the guns are hybrids, and the game's artists won't be familiar with the internals so I would go with the gun that is most similar in look, even if the similarities are all on the cosmetic parts and the dissimilarities affect the internals. Also the Combat SMG is an MP5 hybrid, not a Scorpion.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 11:15, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

== pics of all guns except special edition weapons ==

I went and got the game guide. Here are pics of all the guns.

http://s13.postimg.org/5humxnsfr/gta_Weap.png

[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 15:23, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

== ANALYSIS: Daniel Defense MFR 9.0 (Airsoft) ==

I've identified the firearm "Carbine Rifle", I analyzed it done here

[[Image:Socom-Gear-Daniel-Defense-MFR-9-001.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daniel Defense MFR 9.0 Airsoft]]
[[Image:Socom-Gear-Daniel-Defense-MFR-9-002.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daniel Defense MFR 9.0 Airsoft]]

Ace skeleton stock:

[[Image:Ace Stock Medium1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ace skeleton Stock]]

Reference: http://jagprecision.com/daniel-defense-m4-mfr-series-from-socom-gear/

PaulD21x (talk) 08:27, 27 September 2013 (VE)

Nailed it, nice.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:58, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

:Not really, look a couple of sections above. The handguard is a Daniel Defence MUR (or at least a close approximation of one), but the upper receiver appears to be a VLTOR and the lower is not a DD one. Also you have the fact that the stock appears to be an Ace ARFX-E "Entry" stock which is the short one but this is fixed and not retractable, whereas this is extended out on the buffer tube like a regular AR-15 carbine style stock (I assume this is more due to ignorance rather than it being based on something else). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:43, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

:I think it is a customized gun with a Daniel Defense MFR handguard, VLTOR MUR upper, Brownells 3 pongs flash hidder, the lower looks to be a NorthTech Billet receiver (with de fix trigger guard), the front BUIS is like a Troy Front sight and the rear a A2 type but simplified (or an unknow model), Hogue pistol grip (or any other model) and the ACE stock (but we can see they are nothing to move it because it is a fix stock and not a telescopic, an error). But it is not a basic model for me. --[[User:ArmaLite15|armalite15]] ([[User talk:Armalite15|talk]])

== "Combat Pistol" ==

Me again, noting that you guys missed a pistol.

Of course, this pistol is simply called the "Combat Pistol" and resembles the Beretta PX4 Storm Subcompact in a way. I have no way of getting screens and I haven't seen any so far. I haven't progressed far enough into the game to unlock it, but it can be viewed at the Ammunation stores if anyone had the game and wants to look. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 22:12, 27 September 2013 (EDT)
:No, we haven't missed it. Read a couple discussions above, we're still trying to come to a consensus on what it is. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:51, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

Ah, I see sorry. I missed that discussion. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 22:03, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

== Phone shots ==

So I hear you could take snaps using the in-game smart phone. Would it be possible to get some screenshots that way? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:37, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
:Not sure, you have to sign up to Rockstar Social Network to do it, and I ''bet'' it watermarks them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:45, 30 September 2013 (EDT)
::Actually there is no watermark, but these pictures are only 640x360, and have a filter added that makes them look like low quality analog picture.--[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 15:34, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

I don't think you can take phone pictures while armed, although you might get some from cops or security guards with guns, and take photos in the Ammu-Nation.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:30, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

== In case you're wondering... ==

Cleetus' second hunting mission is bugged (hopefully forever) and when he tells you to hunt the last Elk it lets you wander the entire map with no possibility of triggering a police alert, meaning you can wander around in the military base to your hearts' content. You can keep anything you take by just causing an explosion (''anywhere'' on the map, but the jet's missiles don't count) which will spook the elk and let you quit out of the mission. I can't find anywhere to store the tank that Trevor can own, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:49, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

I'm gonna have to exploit that. I've tried constantly to get a Titan, but I can never get it off the ground before a tank blows me up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:54, 30 September 2013 (EDT)

== Can we just settle on the "Carbine Rifle" by describing the components that it's constructed from? ==
It's obvious that it's not any named product (like the DDM4 it's currently IDed as but clearly is not), so can we just call it a custom AR-15 (like we do other franken ARs), ID it by its individual components, then be done with it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:30, 3 November 2013 (EST)

Moving these here for now, since I've changed the Carbine Rifle entry to reflect that it is ''not'' a DDM4.
[[File:DDM4sbr.jpg|thumb|none|500px|DDM4 300 SBR with Magpul MOE stock, Magpul PMAG magazine, and KAC vertical foregrip - 300 BLK]]
[[Image:AF02-F-OT-ARFXE-ARULE-5.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Ace Skeleton Stock]]
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:53, 19 November 2013 (EST)

== Beach Bum pistol ==

A new handgun will be added in the next update/free DLC, called the "SNS"

http://s.pro-gmedia.com/videogamer/media/images/xbox360/gta5/screens/gta5_269_605x.jpg

Probably a movie reference, perhaps it's a Walther PP of some form.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:49, 13 November 2013 (EST)

Beach Bum pack is out, the SNS pistol looks like a Heckler & Koch P7 M13 fitted with wood grips and a round trigger guard.[[User:Zebracherub|Zebracherub]] ([[User talk:Zebracherub|talk]]) 20:01, 19 November 2013 (GMT)

== Gun pic on Social Club ==

Close view of the most used gun can be seen in the Social Club.

[[File:SocialClubAR15.jpg]]

This is a Northtech Billet lower, VLTOR Upper, A2 type "simplified" rear sight, ergonomical pistol grip but the upper is strange, it is raised up like the HK-416. And the handguard is very close to the Daniel Defense MFR 9.0..[[User:ArmaLite15|ArmaLite15]] ([[User talk:ArmaLite15|talk]]) 19:43, 17 November 2013

== "Carbine Rifle" mounting an image ==

Since I edited the image from Photoshop, is a mixture: that's to HK-416 - Northtech Billet lower, A2 type "simplified" rear sight, ergonomical pistol grip, Brownells 3 pongs flash hidder, Ace Skeleton Stock And the handguard is the Daniel Defense MFR 9.0
[[File:GTAVCARBINERIFLEMIXTURE.jpg|thumb|none|700px]]
[[User:PaulD21x|PaulD21x]] ([[User talk:PaulD21x|talk]]) 21:23, 21 November 2013

Is that a Pimpmygun pistol grip? [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:06, 21 November 2013 (EST)

No, I'm pretty sure he just Shopped in the grip from the Social Club image above. Also, if you wanted to create a composite, you could have just done an image search for the actual lower receiver used (I found plenty on Bing), because as has been previously stated, '''not a single component on this gun corresponds to the HK416'''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 10:39, 22 November 2013 (EST)
:There is possibly part of an HK416 potentially in there, as in the social club image you can see that the shape of the top rail at the rear steps down ahead of the charging handle like an HK416, which is not the case with a VLTOR MUR which the rest of the receiver is. This composite photoshop just uses a vanilla HK416 upper though which is not correct for the game gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:15, 22 November 2013 (EST)

It's all moot now, because I've solved the image problem. Found this during a Bing search for "gta v carbine rifle".

[[File:GTA5-Carbine-Rifle-Example.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The in-game "Carbine Rifle" - 5.56x45mm]]
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:23, 22 November 2013 (EST)
:On seeing that, it looks like it has an HK416 gas block as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:27, 22 November 2013 (EST)

I think the rifle may just have an HK416 upper receiver, Daniel Defense has started to make rails for it in the same style as the MFR and it fits on any standard AR lower, so that simplifies the whole description of it being a mishmash of parts. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 14:11, 7 June 2014 (EDT)

== Combat MG ID and non-player weapons ==
This is a response to Ultimate94 recently changing the MK46 Mod 0 ID back to Mod 1. The Mod 1 lacks a 12 o'clock Picatinny, using the M249 heat shield instead. This was done, AFAIK, to facilitate the re-inclusion of the carry handle. The Combat MG has a Picatinny rail in this position (albeit a low profile one), which would therefor make it a Mod 0. The weapon render linked to on the GTA Wiki is far too small to discern any details from, so doesn't prove anything.

Why were the non-player weapons added back to the main categories? Every other GTA game on IMFDb is formatted with non-player weapons in a separate "Other" category. What's the objection to this page being the same?

The artwork of Michael holding the MK18 doesn't appear in the game as a loading screen (unlike the Type 56 artwork), so it should be deleted from the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:42, 30 December 2013 (EST)

:It's been five months now and no one has responded, so I'm moving the non-player weapons to their own category and marking the MK18 artwork for deletion. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:49, 15 May 2014 (EDT)

== Valentines Day M1928 Thompson ==
So there's going to be a free Chicago Typewriter coming up.
http://socialclub.rockstargames.com/news/article/52186/Coming-this-Friday-The-GTA-Online-Valentine-s-Day-Massacr[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:23, 11 February 2014 (EST)

It's classed as an LMG in-game, with superior stats compared to the PKM (except for mag capacity), making it a good choice for anyone who hasn't unlocked the PKM, or someone who can live without the extra ammo capacity or aim-down-sight zoom (Tommy Gun doesn't get an optic) until they unlock the M249/M60 hybrid --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 03:33, 15 February 2014 (EST)

You can acquire a PKM in a few places right at the start of the game if you know where to look, though. Inside the gate at the Vagos' compound in East LS, for example (as long as you aren't wearing Families colors, you'll have plenty of time to get in and out before their threats turn into gunfire... usually). You just can't buy any mods for it yet. Quite a few weapons are ripe for the picking if you know where to look, actually. Type 56, MP5, MGL, AW, Minigun (''extremely'' hard to get as it's inside Fort Zancudo, though), Super Shorty, RPG, Assault Shotgun (another hard one to get, as it's pretty deep inside the Altruists' mountain compound), grenades, Jerry can, and Molotov cocktails. The Mossberg Cruiser can be acquired quite easily from police as long as you escape your wanted level quick, or if you happen upon a chase and follow until it erupts into a shootout (the criminals usually win LOL). A Carbine Rifle can also be effortlessly acquired from an isolated Merryweather mercenary at their LS Port "turf" if one is careful (I wouldn't advise trying to get one from the LSPD officers lingering around LS International, though). I like having the Thompson in the game, don't get me wrong, but it's largely a gimmick weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:44, 8 March 2014 (EST)

== Removing images ==

I'm in favor of keeping the PKM image on the page, but only because this page is currently incomplete and it's the only screenshot available. I expect a better image will be available when more screencaps are available and the page is completed. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 18:49, 25 February 2014 (EST)

== Cut weapons ==

So I just found this, worthy of mention in the discussion page at least:
http://gtaforums.com/topic/678397-the-gta-v-beta-hunt/page-6

In addition to several melee weapons, there are some icons for the XM25, a DMR variant of the AR-15 (seems to be referred to as M14), a HK21, and a SCAR-H.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:44, 26 February 2014 (EST)

A poster there states they weren't cut, but rather just aren't enabled for player use. So maybe Rockstar is holding them back as future DLC? I'd love to have that AR-15 sniper rifle (which resembles an M110A1, which, AFAIK, is an M110 with the fixed stock replaced with a collapsible one). I always felt the next upgrade from the bolt action should have been a semi-auto .308, with the Barrett placed in the slot with the MGL, RPG, and Minigun, and made to do more damage to vehicles. The stock on the SCAR's in-game render looks like it was taken from the LSAT machine gun, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:29, 26 February 2014 (EST)

== New upcoming DLC ==
The "Heavy Pistol" and "Special Carbine" will be released next week.
[[File:GTAV-HeavyPistol-SpecialCarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
The carbine is clearly a G36K, but the pistol seems to be a 1911 of some kind. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:23, 27 February 2014 (EST)

From looking at the gun itself and at the Social Club page, I think the pistol looks a lot more like a 1911 than an FNX-45, or maybe some sort of Kimber-esque thing. The grip and grip panels look far more 1911 than FN. Cheers, [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])
*EDIT: here's a link that shows the Social Club image, and shows how it more resembles either a regular 1911 or some sort of Kimber-style tactical model: http://gta.wikia.com/Heavy_Pistol [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

It most resembles a [[Springfield_Armory_1911_Series#Springfield_Armory_Tactical_Response_Pistol_.28TRP.29|Springfield TRP Operator]] with the slide derived from the OTs-33 to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:44, 4 March 2014 (EST)

definitely looks like a Springfield TRP operator with mabye some cz97 http://www.lipseys.net/images/CZ01411.jpg?maxwidth=520--[[User:Anarchy66660|Anarchy66660]] ([[User talk:Anarchy66660|talk]]) 22:03, 4 March 2014 (EST)

That's definitely a TRP Operator frame, the new pistol doesn't resemble an FNP very much. The slide looks like a flatter version of a normal 1911.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:43, 4 March 2014 (EST)

== Heavy Pistol ==

Could the heavy pistol be an Enterprise Arms Wide Body 1911?
[[File:Steel_Full_Rail_Gun_5.jpg|thumb|none|350px|]]
The slide is very flat like the heavy pistol, they both have the full dust cover rail, wide rear cocking serrations, and lack of front cocking. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:14, 8 March 2014 (EST)

I think you got it, looks dead on to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:01, 8 March 2014 (EST)
:It is pretty close, but I think that is just coincidence. There are a number of differences that suggest it is not based on this gun such as the fibre optic sights, different numbers of slide serrations, lack of a beavertail (or in fact a grip safety at all by the look of it), a seemingly changeable curved backstrap, slanted rather than vertical trigger guard front, different grips, and most definitively the fact that it has a single rather than double stack frame. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:29, 8 March 2014 (EST)
::None of the guns in the game are exactly modeled after anything. The Taurus has a different number of slide serrations, a different hammer, etc. Hell, look at the "Desert Eagle." The Heavy Pistol is at least a lot closer to this gun, than the Operator. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:12, 9 March 2014 (EDT)
:::To me it seems much more likely that the guy who made it simply messed around with a standard 1911 rather than modelling it after a relatively obscure custom gun though. To be honest a lot of the gun IDs on this page are pretty far fetched, in particular the so-called "OTs-33 Pernach" which looks absolutely nothing like one (to me this gun actually looks like it is the bottom half of a 2nd series [[Colt Woodsman]] with some tactical crap slapped on the top). Weapons which appear to be fictional but bear a vague (possibly coincidental) resemblance to something real should not be definitely listed as this (such as saying that "The Enterprise Arms Wide Body 1911, released with the "Business Update" DLC, appears as the Heavy Pistol." which is not really the case). For most of these guns the proper thing to do would be to have the heading for the section be, for example, "Heavy Pistol" and state underneath that it is a 1911 type pistol bearing some similarities to the Enterprise Arms Wide Body 1911 but with several notably differences. Similarly for the "Special Carbine", not a single part of that is actually taken from a real Heckler & Koch G36C, it is just a random collection of different parts (some of them real, like the [http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-pistol-grips/id-1/m16-m4-ar15-tactical-ergonomic-pistol-grip.html FAB Defense AG-43 AR-15 pistol grip]) which have been assembled into the vague shape of a G36C--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 14:17, 9 March 2014 (EDT)
::::I think the SpeCarbine has G36K resemblence in the upper receiver/ handguard and top rail, just a lot more flat than the real thing. The AP pistol definitely has a Woodsman grip, the slide was probably incorrectly based on a Kriss KARD. The frame of the SNS pistol resembles the HK P7M10, too.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:23, 2 April 2014 (EDT)

== Bullpup Rifle ==
It looks like it has a 7.62x39mm AK magazine, so shouldn't it go in the rifles category despite it being classified as an SMG in-game? Same goes for the "Assault SMG", which clearly has a 20-round AR-15 mag. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:18, 2 April 2014 (EDT)
:I think it was put in the SMG category by accident, "Bullpup Rifle" clearly indicates it is going to be classified as an assault rifle. Looks like a hybrid of the QBZ-95 and it's B carbine.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:48, 2 April 2014 (EDT)
:I think that it's a shame that it's a QBZ at all and not the L85 it looked like in one piece of concept art (below) [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])
[[File:Gtao-hl-bpr.jpeg]]

== AP Pistol ==

I just saw this on Modern Firearms. http://world.guns.ru/smg/usa/scamp-e.html Does anyone else think the AP Pistol looks more like the Colt SCAMP than the OTs-33 Pernach? [[User:Rockinthecasbah|Rockinthecasbah]] ([[User talk:Rockinthecasbah|talk]]) 18:35, 10 April 2014 (EDT)

Can't see any resemblance myself, not that it looks like a Pernach either, but it really, really doesn't look like the SCAMP [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

There are a few similarities in shape and layout to the SCAMP. The squared slide/frame, the ejection port, the central alignment of the barrel. It's not perfect, but all the guns in this game have had creative licenses taken by the designers. There are no specific similarities between the AP Pistol and the OTs-33. [[User:Rockinthecasbah|Rockinthecasbah]] ([[User talk:Rockinthecasbah|talk]]) 16:37, 15 May 2014 (EDT)
:Rather than rolling back edits without explanation, work it out here. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 23:51, 16 May 2014 (EDT)
::The page is locked again, for one week this time. Like I said, work it out here. Present your arguments and your evidence. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 02:10, 27 May 2014 (EDT)
:::Another week and no discussion. Very well. If this edit warring continues, bans will be issued. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 02:44, 3 June 2014 (EDT)
== Love all the vehicles and weapons as free DLC, I really do, but... ==
It would be nice if we got something other than just pistols and assault rifles. There's already more of those than any other weapon type. I wish they'd add some of the cut weapons detailed a few sections up (M110-style sniper rifle, XM25-style grenade launcher, etc.) in addition to new stuff. Would love an MP7A1 and a Carl Gustav rocket launcher, for example. Maybe add some new weapon attachments like laser sights and different optics. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 10:06, 13 May 2014 (EDT)

== New weapons leaked? ==

Hey I found this surfing web: http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/threads/leaked-future-dlc-weapons.1141769/
There is a picture showing some icons for weapons that already have been added and some that we will probably see in future. 

http://i.imgur.com/S5amZ8I.png - icons 

http://i.imgur.com/F8T96mT.png - textures for weapons

New weapons include: HK21 MG, SCAR-H, pistol and a knife --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 02:22, 29 May 2014 (EDT)

:See my post on the cut weapons above, although it's entirely possible the HK21 and SCAR are being re-added from cut content. The pistol looks new, too. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 09:34, 29 May 2014 (EDT)

== Snipers rifles ==

Some changes should be made to the sniper rifles on the page, (The page is now indefinitely protected due to edit warring in which I was involved, but I won't change that edit again. Can someone of the admins remove the protection?) The bolt-action sniper rifle in-game is an AWM, not a standard AW, since the weapon model shows a folding stock (although in this case the 10-round mag would be incorrect). As for the "Heavy Sniper", I think that it's an M82, since the weapon's appearance in-game doesn't seem to match the rail system seen on the M107. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 08:30, 7 June 2014 (EDT)
:I've unlocked it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 11:48, 7 June 2014 (EDT)
::As with the vast majority of the guns on this page, it is not a perfect match for any particular AI rifle. However, I would say that it is more accurate to call it a standard AW as opposed to an AWM. If you look at the ejection port it appears to be the shorter one which is on the AW as the recess in the stock beneath is notably larger, as opposed to on the AWM where the port is almost the same size as the recess. Also, just because it has a folding stock does not make it an AWM, they make AWs with folding stocks such as [[Media:Arctic Warfare Folding Stock.jpg|this]], just like they make AWM with fixed stocks like [[Media:AWSM fixed.jpg|this]]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:30, 7 June 2014 (EDT)

Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes

2013-11-25T19:32:20Z

Recon42: /* BIG BOSS's rifle */

== SMG ==

Not sure it is a Steyr. Ejection port is different and no top bolt. Might one of the PP or PM series.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 12:25, 4 September 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, about how it doesn't look like a Steyr, but I don't really see the PP or PM series in that SMG. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:39, 4 September 2012 (CDT)

::I glanced around and the best match I could find would be a Ruger MP9 with most of the grip removed and a Skorpion-style stock added. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:02, 4 September 2012 (CDT)

Comparing recent Gametrailers' pop up trailer and looking online, it does look more like a Steyr MPi 69 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:46, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

:Yeah, but in the shots we have the ribs on the side and the ejection port aren't right for the Steyr at all. I bet it's some ridiculously obscure subgun prototype or something. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:24, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

My guess is they are going for made up hybrids this time. With the rifle for example there is actually nothing on there that matches a real FNC, think it just got ID'd as that as it has a folding stock and is sort of the same general shape. If you look closely at the lower receiver it actually appears to be a bastardised malformed AR-15 lower. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:34, 8 September 2012 (EDT)
:I dunno, this is still supposed to be MSF as far as I'm aware, so it's in the past; could be a case of MSF having to go to fictional stuff after having invented every weapon and thing ever in the last game, I suppose. And actually I think that's the FAL model from Peace Walker with a 5.56mm STANAG stuck in it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:07, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

So far, none of the MGS games have resorted to fictional firearms aside from the ray guns and rail guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:02, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

:Thinking about it, is it possible it's some cheapy Airsoft FAL which is built around guts designed to go in an AR-15 platform and so needs to use a 5.56mm mag and have a front pivot? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 06:35, 9 September 2012 (EDT)
::That idea does seem like a stretch. I have never seen an "cheap" Airsoft FAL that is built to look like an AR and I've seen a lot of weird Airsoft when I was into it. Keep in mind, this is still a demo and they could still fix it to look more like an FNC, which is what I think they are trying for. And are we dead set on what the SMG really is without considering the MPi? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:42, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

I still think the AR is just a random hybrid gun rather than it being physically based on anything. It is kind of like they cobbled together random bits of models to make a gun in the ''shape'' of an FNC, so could be a place holder. As for the SMG, it appears to me to be mostly based on a malformed Uzi with a Skorpion style top folding stock added and a few parts omitted or changed. On first glance I know it doesn't really look like one but hear me out. First off are the sights, with the front and rear sights both having semi circular wings. Then there is the fact that it has the slot in the top of the receiver for the top mounted charging handle although the handle itself is absent and the top of the model has been flattened rather than keeping the humped Uzi receiver. The two short ribs at the rear of the receiver match the Uzi. Also above the pistol grip is a horizontal rectangular indent which is another telling Uzi feature. Finally in the last screenshot you can see that behind the pistol grip the receiver narrows like on the Uzi. I will admit that the final product doesn't look much like an Uzi what with it having a Skorpion folding wire stock and lacking the distinctive Uzi muzzle and handguards, but to me it appears that the "raw material" they were working from to make this gun was an Uzi. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:04, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

:Yeah, I thought Uzi as my second option, that indent is way closer to Uzi than the longer one on the MP9. As for the rifle...Tilting my head, it looks almost like it's supposed to be the missing (or rather nonexistent) link between the FAL and the SCAR. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:06, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

Grabbed a couple extra shots. Not really helpful in getting an ID, but it's something. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 23:53, 13 September 2012 (EDT)
[[File:MGSGZ-SMG1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:MGSGZ-SMG2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

This Photo had been included in "Metal Gear Solid 5 Fox Engine Tech Demo". Do you know a gun similar to this? This SMG make USSR? -- [[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] ([[User talk:KINKI'boy|talk]]) 17:31, 25 April 2013 (JST)
[[File:MGSV SMG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Just realized. That's not a photo. That's a render. It's all CG.-protoAuthor 20:54, 25 April 2013 (EDT)

::FOX Engine is amazing. I watched through the nearly one and a half hour presentation in one sitting. As far as the submachine gun is concerned it combines from the design elements of both a western, designed by Uziel Gal, MP9 and the Czechoslovakian Vz. 61, designed on the other side of the iron curtain by Miroslav Ribar. It's hard to determen it's origin, especially since it was made up by Kojima Production, but it was used by what were apparently US (or at least international) operatives in the trailers. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:16, 26 April 2013 (EDT)

== BIG BOSS's rifle ==

Is Snake with the rifle wonder why truly FN FAL Paratrooper? I think that HAC-7. - [[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] 16:17, 13 September 2012 (JST)

[[File:MGSGZFNFNC.jpeg|none|400px|thumb|Snake with the rifle.]]
[[File:HAC-7.jpg|none|400px|thumb|HAC-7 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

:It does actually bear quite a good resemblance to the [http://www.biggerhammer.net/hac7/pictorial/ HAC-7C] (assuming it would be the carbine version as the suppressor goes all the way back to the front sight) but there are some differences. Firstly it is the wrong caliber, the HAC-7 is a .308 feeding from AR-10 magazines rather than this which has a regular 30 round .223 mag. The stock is also wrong being of a more conventional FAL type, and the gun has an AR-15 pistol grip as opposed to the FAL type on the HAC-7. This gun is close enough that it ''might'' be what they were going for, but not a single part is actually a match for the real gun, it is just the same general shape and layout. Part of this might be the fact that the gun is so rare that they could not find much reference material for it, but not sure that is really an excuse as after 5 minuted on google I was able to find pictured good enough to show that there model is wrong. Again, could just be a place-holder model though. Regardless,if it turns out that it is a HAC-7 of some sort this is a totally bizarre choice, using a gun that only about 300 were made which was never designed or trialled for military use, it is just one of those random rare civillian guns made by a Texas gunsmith. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 03:53, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

While the gun seems to be a combination of parts from different weapons, wouldn't the FAL style receiver and 5.56 mm magazine indicate that it's (at least somewhat) based on the IMBEL MD-97? --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 23:49, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

[[File:Imbel MD 97.jpg|none|400px|thumb|IMBEL MD-97 - 5.56x45mm]]

The [[IMBEL MD-97]] wouldn't be that impossible looks pretty much like the screenshot, was made for the Brazilian Army, and its special forces and chambered for 5.56x45mm NATO. However it was not made until 1997 but it wouldn't be the first time anachronisms appeared in MGS unless you meant the earlier (but still anachronistic) IMBEL MD.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:28, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

:The annoying thing about this gun is it looks "pretty much" like quite a few things, but exactly like nothing. If you look at any part and compare it to the MD-97 it is different, with the exception of the magazine itself, and possibly the stock if you were feeling generous. I'm sticking with hybrid, possibly standing in for something else. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:20, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Im not sure when this happen but someone said it was a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_88 St.Kinetics SR-88] and put it on the main page but I changed it back to Commando's description.

[[File:SR-88.jpg|thumb|none|450px|St.Kinetics SR-88 assault rifle - 5.56x45]]
[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 17:03, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

This Photo had been included in "Metal Gear Solid 5 Fox Engine Tech Demo". What you see this rifle ? -- [[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] ([[User talk:KINKI'boy|talk]]) 17:31, 25 April 2013 (JST)

[[File:MGSV AR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:: What about the INSAS? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KW-cEgSriVY/ToL9OPqlMKI/AAAAAAAACc8/PM-PvC0mTf0/s1600/Kalantak+Micro+Assault+Rifle+INSAS+5.56+mm+micro+assault+rifle+CQB+%2526+Personnel+Defence+Weapon+Role+Assault+Rifle+Indian+Small+Arms+System%2529+iIndian+State+Ordnance+Factory+Board.jpg

:::KALANTAK seemed like a good match at first glance, yet there are still quite a lot of things that make it an unlikely candidate. Besides the obvious differences in the hand guard shape of the back sights, pistol grip and the trigger guard, the lower receiver is more akin to an AR clone. The other important factor why it's doubtful it represents KALANTAK or any INSAS derivative is that the base rifle only came into adoption during the vary latest of nineties, while the events of MGSV take place in the mid-80s. Just like with the submachine gun above, I have a premonition we'll be seeing a few similarly fictive, but appropriately plausible firearms in the retail version. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:00, 26 April 2013 (EDT)

Looks a bit like a Daewoo DR200 http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/buddyhoohaw/Daewoo/DR-200-1.jpg or a Bushmaster Assault Rifle http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/Stottman/Bushy1.jpg [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 14:32, 25 November 2013 (EST)

==Game now titled MGS5==

This game is now officially called Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2013 (EDT)
*Not exactly: Jay Boor stated they are still two separate games. Here's the source: http://www.siliconera.com/2013/03/27/the-phantom-pain-and-metal-gear-solid-ground-zeroes-are-two-separate-games/#6eJtQjLEJ9DWuyBo.99/ [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 23:19, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

And then in the second update it says he can't confirm anything, while Kojima said that "Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain together make MGSV." which implies that they're both the same game, Boor most likely made an error, and I'd take Kojima's word since he's the one who actually worked on the game whereas Boor is not, so I think the title should be changed. [[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 12:52, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:Maybe we should just wait until something truly solid comes along. This page has already been moved and then moved back within the last 24 hours. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:55, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

Wait I just screencaped the latest trailer but was it MSG5 or MGSGZ?--[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 14:24, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

Well according to the Wikia of MGS, it states that both are the same game. The two games were believed (mostly by the press) to be separate until they were officially announced to be one during the 2013 Game Developers Conference [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:49, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:Konami seems to disagree, and even Kojima hinted that they were still two separate games (his claim that the opening of TPP was a tutorial session at the beginning, despite claiming in the same twitter post that GZ is a prologue of TPP). [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:33, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::He still doesn't specify whether it's one game or two separate games though, as for Konami's PR guy Boor, he didn't seem too sure of what he stated in the updates to the article as I said before and with the recent interview with Kojima not saying much to imply that it's two separate releases, I think it's safe to say it's one game. [[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 04:10, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

[http://www.destructoid.com/metal-gear-solid-v-ground-zeroes-launching-spring-2014-264871.phtml The word has come down that this is now a separate game.] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:36, 4 November 2013 (EST)

== TGS demo ==

Looks like the weapons are all fictional hybrids similar to Resident Evil 6. In the live demo the FNC type rifle was called the MRS-4 and the SAR-80 lookalike the "AM Rifle Type 69" (no, not that Type 69). Bit of a waste. :( [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 07:24, 19 September 2013 (EDT)

Let's hope when the game actually came out, they'll make the weapons more realistic. It's weird all the guns look so fake because the previous games even the PSP Peacewalker game, the guns were all based on the real models. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:09, 19 September 2013 (EDT)

:Yes, especially considering that GZ/TPP takes place directly between PW and the MSX2 games. At least with MGRR's use of fictitious weapons, it was acceptable because it took place well into the future of not only real-life, but in-universe as well. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 10:13, 24 November 2013 (EST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Ghosts

2013-08-15T11:17:38Z

Recon42: /* Multiplayer Reveal Weapons */

'''MAIN PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Only officially released images will be permitted. Leaked images, even if publicised elsewhere, are not permitted. This rule is not negotiable.'''

'''TALK PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Do not post lists of weapons you hope to see in the game. They will be deleted.'''

Um...Gun images? Screenshots? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:44, 21 May 2013 (EDT)

:Sorry bout that...wanted to get the layout finished, and then I added the images. That way, I can get the images into the page faster. - [[User:1morey]] May 21, 2013 3:19 PM (EST)

A new CoD? *Yawns and goes back to more relevant business* [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 22:48, 23 May 2013 (EDIT)

:Does that REALLY have to be on every single COD page on this site? [[User:Gunmaster2011|Gunmaster2011]] 18.15, 26th June 2013

::At least it's not [[Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops_II#The_Newest_Joke.3F|an anon asking why we even have the page in the first place]], like some random person's opinion on a series is the sole determining factor in whether the site as a whole will acknowledge its existence. Really, we've lucked out on this one so far. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 23:30, 28 June 2013 (EDT)

::Do me a favor and search through talk page archives for every CoD game on this site and you'll see this is the only one I've made such a comment on. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:55, 29 June 2013 (EDT)

For now, anyway. I know now that someone will probably add that statement to all the pages just to annoy me. And I am aware of the "statement" on Black Ops II's page. Are we allowed to delete topics? [[User:Gunmaster2011|Gunmaster2011]] 14.41, 7th July 2013

== ARX-160 and developer peek weapons ==

http://gyazo.com/1c90b0083948c5c03bd198c852e1f0fa.png

Looks to have an EGLM under it, there are also previous M4 appearances and the Vector with a AFG. Also saw a Galil/AK looking gun outside the chopper scene. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:58, 24 May 2013 (EDT)
Dev video here:
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:N7/Call_of_Duty:_Ghosts_Worldwide_Premiere

:I'm fairly sure in the dev video in the Xbox1 reveal they had either the MW3 or Blops2 MP7, as well, though it might have just been a placeholder. Though MW3 proves placeholder doesn't necessarily mean it won't turn up in the actual game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:28, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

There also appears to be the Ukraine 5.45 X95/MTAR. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:58, 24 May 2013 (EDT)

== "Unknown Rifle" ==

My guess is that this is just another Honey Badger. It has a MP5 style sliding stock connected to a rearward extension from the receiver, just like on the Honey Badger. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:04, 22 May 2013 (EDT)

== Unknown shotgun ==

Though I can't be sure since we don't see it closely enough, the associated dialog makes me wonder if it isn't supposed to be something like a Daisy Model 25 rather than a real weapon. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 22:19, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

== Multiplayer Reveal Weapons ==

My apologies, I would add the ones I know if I were any good at editing pages, but [http://puu.sh/423yR.png check this out.]
[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] ([[User talk:Ghostdigga|talk]]) 04:51, 15 August 2013 (EDT)

From what I can see: Second row is GP-25/30 standalone, I think a metal storm series GL beneath it, an MP-443 Grach at the bottom and not an OTS-33, next row over "generic drum mag AR" seems to be an M27 with a C-Mag, the marksman rifle could maybe be a Robinson XCR in DMR config, one beneath seems to be a Daewoo K7, next row second from top is a CBJ-MS PDW, shotgun further down seems to be maybe a Benelli Supernova, Possible G28 beneath it, Gepard GM-6 Lynx on the bottom, and I have no idea what's above the TDI, apart from the fact it seems to be an underwater firearm, really stumped on that one. Feel free to correct, have barely woken up yet so I could be off on a few. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 07:17, 15 August 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Glock pistol series

2013-07-14T18:27:20Z

Recon42: /* Stainless steel frame? */

2 Glocks (.45?) play prominet roles in the movie "Fracture" starring Anthony Hopkins. Don't know the model so I didn't edit the main page ([[Special:Contributions/80.121.38.199|80.121.38.199]] 18:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC))

__TOC__ 

==Other Glock Variations==
===Screen-Used===
[[Image:IMFDB P00261 Sopranos Tony Soprano Glock 19.jpg|thumb|none|350px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Glock 19 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[James Gandolfini]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. More detailed images and purchasing information on this item can be found at [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00261&Store_Code=TGC&search=Sopranos+Glock&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= here].]]
[[Image:P00650 Glock Full Left.jpg|thumb|350px|none|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Glock 19 - 9x19mm. This non-firing prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film '''[[The Other Guys]]''', and was carried by [[Will Ferrell]] in the film. The gun is accompanied by the Galco belt holster also used in numerous scenes throughout the film.]]
[[Image:P00613.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Screen used Glock 19 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The gun has been modified to fire blank rounds only. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00613&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:MattDUlt.jpg|thumb|350px|none|The actual screen-used 3rd generation Glock 17 - 9mm from ''[[The Bourne Ultimatum]]''. This weapon was actually handled and fired by [[Matt Damon]]. Note the damage on the rail.]]

===Other Images===
[[File:Glock17ext.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 17 with 33 round magazine.]]
[[File:Glock17stainless ext.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 17 fitted with stainless slide and 33 round magazine.]]
[[Image:Glock_12892-1-.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 OD Green - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Evolution.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Suppressed Glock 17 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:BruniGAP-178mm.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Bruni GAP Glock 17 blank firing stage prop - 8mm blank]]
[[Image:Glock17RAM4.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 RAM - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:CAA.Tactical-RONI-G1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 - 9x19mm mounted in a CAA Tactical RONI-G1.]]
[[File:Glock18Ext.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 18 (2nd Generation) with a 33 round magazine - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Pistol Austrian Glock 18 with 31 round magazine.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 18C with a 19 and 31 round magazine - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Glock 18C.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 18C (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm. ]]
[[Image:Glock22left.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Glock 22 (2nd Generation) left side - .40 S&W.]]
[[Image:G17-1x400.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 3rd Generation with SureFire x400 attachment and extended 19-round magazine - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:Glock17wTLR-2.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 with Streamlight TLR-2 weaponlight/laser module and spare magazine - 9x19mm. Similar to the gun used by [[Shemar Moore]] in ''[[Criminal Minds]]'']]
[[File:Saliant Arms glock 34.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Salient Arms International Glock 34 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Gen2 G19C.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Gen2 Glock 19C - 9x19mm]]

== The "Glock invisible"-nonsense ==

Here's what [[Hugh Laurie]] (yes, the "House M. D."-guy) had to say about that in his novel "The gun seller":
"You may have read, at one time or another, some of the nonsense that’s been written about the Glock. The fact that its body is made from a fancy polymer material got one or two journalists very excited a while back about the possibility that the gun might not register on airport X-ray machines - which happens to be so much hooey. The slide, barrel, and a fair portion of its innards are metal, and if that weren’t enough, seventeen rounds of Parabellum ammunition are pretty hard to pass off as lipstick refills. What it does have is a high magazine capacity for a low weight, great accuracy, and virtually unequalled reliability. All of which have made the Glock 17 the choice of housewives everywhere."
Dr. House, I couldn't agree more.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 22:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I have to admit that my whole perspective of Glock changed when they sued Smith & Wesson over the Sigma. I mean, they make more money from their handguns than any other company in the world and then they go and sue someone. The Glocks design is so simple it resembles every handgun, you might as well sue them all. I see the similarities but they are easily telled apart. Not a cool thing to do Glock, I wish you hadn't stooped down like that.

== 'Resembles Every Handgun' ==

"The Glocks design is so simple it resembles every handgun, you might as well sue them all."

It only resembles every handgun, because almost every brand has a Glock copy now. There wasn't anything like it back in 1982 when it was released. Back then its main competitors were the 1911, S&W 39, Berreta 92 and various wheel guns. Gunner313
Not to mention that S&W didn't just copy the Glock design they cloned it with parts that would fit into a Glock body, with potentially disastrous consequences.

A copy is a near exact of something. The S&W Sigma is the only Glock copy. The rest are just polymer pistols.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:29, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I think he mans that is so genaric and non-descript in apperance that it has gained the status of being the genaric
icon for "pistol" among the populous, especially laymans.
An example being that I asked my parents (who know nothing of guns) to draw their interpretation of a pistol, what they drew was inescapeably a glock-like design.
I think this is because its basically just a rectangular prism with a very simple handguard on it, also its common use by police give it a good possition in the public eye even for those who avoid movies and other media for whatever reason.
Compaired to other self loading pistols the only competition I can see it having is the Beretta 92 serise of guns, also yes I think your point is very valad - other companies making sudo-glocks means that their image is even more common and that the layman will associate the image of a glock less with glocks and more with the term "pistol".
- annon

==Durability==
:Does anyone else find it ironic that Glock's are nigh indestructible but feel really fragile?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 23:05, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
The Glocks I've fired, for the most part, don't feel extremely fragile. Sure, they don't have that 'all metal heft' that some other handguns have, which makes them lighter, and conceivably more fragile feeling, but none of mine have never felt like they would shatter if I dropped them. I might be misunderstanding what you mean, though. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 21:39, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
:It just about takes a nuclear blast to destroy one, but at the same time it feels like I could cruch it with my bare hands-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I've never noticed them feeling fragille, but that could be because I can't get over how friggin' UNCOMFORTABLE they are to hold. I'm not trying bash glocks here, they just don't fit my hand. At all.--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 00:48, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

==Catastrophic Failure ==
The Portland, Oregon police department stopped offering the .45 Glock 21 as an option for Officers to carry on duty after two incidents in which the weapons exploded in the hands of the range master during testing. Afterwards reports came in from across the country of similar incidents with the Glock 21. Do all Glocks chambered for powerful cartridges (.45, 10mm) have this problem or is it just the Glock 21? Furthermore do all Glock 21s have this issue or were these just a few rare accidents? I don't particularly like Glock pistols but never considered them dangerous (at least to the user) before hearing about these incidents.
-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Hmm. Given the problems that PPB has given Glock in the past (back in the early nineties they commented that "PBB is one of those customers we can't seem to ever make happy") I'm not surprised they blame the company rather than themselves. They also refused to fly to Smyrna to allow Glock to examine one of the pistols; they also refused to allow Glock to remove even one of the allegedly defective pistols for lab tests. The PPB also failed to submit either of the pistols for independent testing, despite stating that it would.

If there was a design flaw it would have shown up '''long''' before now. Glock has ~65% of the US LEA market, mostly in .40 and while the "Short and Weak" isn't nearly as powerful as 10mm Auto, it's generally loaded to higher pressures than .45 ACP

I've used the G20 and G29 (both chambered for the far more powerful 10mm Auto round) for years and haven't had a gun explode or do anything worse that FTE when used with poor ammunition. A few years back we torture tested one with 15,000rds in a single day, it didn't explode.

It's not just .45 and 10mm. I've personally seen a glock 17 explode with factory ammo. Not a pretty sight. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 00:55, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

== Portland Police and its standards ==

The Portland Police Bureau is a strange department. I've known experienced officers who have tried to get on with the PPB only to be told that they didn't meet Portland's criteria. In a couple cases they were experienced Oregon certified officers from neighboring cities. One of them spent a year in Kosovo with the U.N. civil police training task force. It's a strange city with an odd police administration. I've known a few good cops who work for Portland, but overall I'm glad that I never applied with the PPB.Ultimately I believe the politics of that part of Oregon would have driven me crazy.Very very LEFT WING. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:40, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

It's only certain Glock models that do it. I've noticed it a lot on the .40 S&W models such as the 22 or 23. The problem is that in order to increase more reliable feeding as well as to make the gun cycle more reliably, Glocks have more of their chambers cut away, which leaves parts of the case unsupported. They count on the casing to hold in the powder load. I think it happens mostly on the larger cartridges such as 10mm Auto, .40 S&W or .45ACP. Haven't heard of it happening on any of the .45GAP models though. I'm personally not a big fan of Glock pistols. I don't find them very visually appealing and I hate the lack of a manual safety. And I really, really dislike the trigger they make on it. They need to take off the little lever in the trigger, and just go to a solid double action trigger and put a manual safety on it. I'm a 1911 man, but I think there are many other designs that are better than Glock's. For example, Sig Sauer or H&K. Or Springfield's XD series. S&W Sigma. I mean the list goes on and on. I won't buy a Glock for the reasons I mentioned above. Right now, all I own are 1911s and one H&K USP .45.

:I'm a bit confused. You say that you do not like Glock pistols because you find them unattractive and you prefer a manual safety, both of which are valid reasons. But then you claim that designs from SIG Sauer, H&K USP, the Springfield XD, and the S&W Sigma -- all of which, save for a few specialty models, do not have a manual safety -- are superior to the Glock design. That just doesn't make sense. It's perfectly fine to dislike Glock pistols, but to claim that they are inferior to other designs for lacking a manual safety, when those very other designs also lack manual safeties, is rather odd. [[Special:Contributions/68.39.83.179|68.39.83.179]] 22:07, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

::I've only had hands-on experience with the Glock 21 myself. Me and my sister shot one on my birthday this year, and she had the Glock malfunction on her too, albeit not nearly as severely as the incidents mentioned above. She pulled the trigger and the weapon failed to discharge. When I cleared the chamber, I found that the pin had missed the primer and struck the back of the casing. After that though we didn't have any further problems with the weapon, that being the only round out of 50 we put through the Glock 21 that had a misfire. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:19, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Not sure on the Sigma, but the XD has a grip safety, and most sigs have de-cockers. I don't know if those meets your definition of 'manual safety', but they're certainly more than glock has.--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 15:40, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

==Glock 18==
what would a fully automatic pistol be used for? VIPs protection and CQC
There was a fad for such machine pistols (VP-70 and M-93R for other examples).

But the Personal defense weapon have taken this firearm nitch and more. Rex095

Sort of like lasers when they first came out.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:24, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

what do you mean? about the lasers

Lasers were thought to be the end-all substitute for irons yet now they are just seen as a gimmick.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:32, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's not really a gimmick today. People still use lasers to aim, distract someone by aiming at their eyes and for small frame guns where the iron sights are bad, like a pocket gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:57, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

== Generation 4 Glocks ==

I realized that the page is laking the Gen 4 Glock 17 and Gen 4 Glock 22 --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 17:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Added the Gen 4 model for Glock 22--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 17:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

:The picture you posted is not a 4th Generation Glock; it is an RTF (Rough Texture Frame) model, which is not the same thing. The main difference between the 4th Gen Glocks and older models is that they now have removable backstraps. And anyway, we don't need the picture until we know they've appeared in movies (and at the rate armorers buy new pistols, no time soon.) IMFDB's policy is that we don't need a picture of every variant of a gun that has ever existed (at least not on the gun's page), and ''especially'' if it hasn't appeared in anything yet. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Well that and the fact that the 4th Generation also has a captive recoil spring, but of course how in the hell do you show that? Shot a 4th Gen G17 today at the range. Very nice. Recovery is all that much faster. I was impressed. The company will be coming out with the 4th Gen G19 in a month or so. However the 4th Gen G21SF isn't due out until next year. Sorry 45 acp mafia. I was talking to one of the corporate guys so I feel confident that he knows what he's talking about. Anyway just some nice to know trivia.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 05:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Question about the Gen 4s: Is it true that the compact and subcompact models aren't compatible with the standard size magazines like the previous generations can? - [[User: 2wingo]]

== Glock 34 ==

Just looking at the section for the [[Glock 34]], only [[End of Days]] and [[Man on Fire]]. In both movies, It's used by the Main Character to attempt suicide. That's gonna be a good ad campaign: "''When You Can't Go On Anymore, Reach For Your Glock 34''"
: That is horrible. But it's also kinda funny. - [[User: 2wingo]]

==1st Generation==
Did the first generation of Glock pistols feature anything other than the Glock 17? I've seen second and third generation versions of nearly every model, but the only first generation pistols I've ever seen are Glock 17s. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

A small number of first generation Glock 19's were made. - [[User:Right Wing Gun Nut|Right Wing Gun Nut]]

It should have only been in the glock 17...and you shouldn't see one easily because they didn't meet ATF regulation until the generation 2.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 22:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

What reg did they not meet?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:34, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

:1st Gen Glock 19s do exist, but they're very rare, because Glock went to the checkered front/backstraps on all of its pistols shortly after production began. Also, the Glock 17L and Glock 18 both exist in 1st generation incarnations (though they're also pretty rare). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:04, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

::So there were other 1st generation models than the 17, but were all 1st generation guns 9mms? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

To meet American ATF regulations, a steel plate with a stamped serial number was embedded into the dust cover in front of the trigger guard for generation 2. I have seen no evidence of a first generation glock being in any other model than the 17. Even the people that claim they have a generation 1 glock 19 still only show pictures of a generation 2...so i would need to see proof on anything other model being in generation 1. but my knowledge is limited to what's available in the normal U.S.A. for some glock models are not legal to have in the states.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:55, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

:Gen 1 Glock 19s do exist. Check out [http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887305 this topic] from GlockTalk. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

==Other models==
Why were the models that were removed before put back? I thought IMFDB didn't allow sections for variants of a gun that haven't appeared in any media. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::See Stan's post below, and also the Glock 20 that was deleted actually WAS in something. When we went to link it, surprise, it wasn't there because it had been removed. Not a good thing. Any SERIES of guns, do not remove the interim gun series entries ever. They are there for continuity in the SERIES of models. The only guns we remove are the weird single gun entries that some member jacked off of google and won't appear in a movie, etc. ever, and if they do, only then do we create the page. The only exception is guns that are in active armorer inventory NOW. That means that there is a much HIGHER chance of them being seen, and we need the gun pics to help members positively ID them. Hope this helps. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:51, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::When the Glock variants were initially deleted I mentioned that having gaps in the list of different models seemed odd, yet those who deleted them responded that any weapons or variants of weapons that have not appeared in media are subject to deletion. I like that the different variants have been restored to the list, I was just curious as to what the procedure was for guns that are variants of weapons that have appeared in films though that specific variant had not since I had heard conflicting information. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::::- Yeah, that was me. I found it irksome to have several models (mainly new ones), that weren't listed or even linked to anything, it was annoying to me. I still think that in regards to the newest 30 model guns, but that's just me. BUT, as MPM said, they are still standard guns of the same series, and many are in inventory, so they'll be used in something eventually (If indeed they haven't already and we just don't have pages, etc). I think the main problem was getting rid of older guns like the 20 that are ''definitely'' in stuff already and should be there accordingly. A couple of the other guns are also linked to pages but just don't have them listed - I'll go ahead and add the listing(s) myself if they're listed on complete pages and/or positively ID'd. Otherwise, you could just say they're being proactive. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:23, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

-Original Reply- 
I replaced the sections I previously deleted by request of MoviePropMaster2008. Essentially they are for reference right now. However, there are also a sort of placeholder as well - MPM has stated on other pages that such guns are in movie inventory, so eventually they'll get listings/entries - As such, the sections are to remain so that they don't have to be re-created later. A couple of the guns are already linked on pages I believe, but the pages may not be complete or they may not be listed for some other reason. I did remove them because at the time they weren't featured in anything, but it really wasn't my call to remove them in the first place. (EDIT - removed MPM's paraphrased personal message to me, as he posted himself). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:36, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::I should point that I am highly skeptical of some of the Glocks IDs that are supposedly [[Glock 20]]s. The episode of ''[[Psych]]'' in which [[John Cena]] supposedly uses a Glock 20 is wrong; I've seen that episode, and he uses a Glock 17L. I'm equally doubtful that the Glock 20 appears in Season 4 of ''[[24]]''. Since we know that (as a rule) movie armorers rarely use any Glocks that aren't 9x19mm, I can't help but wonder if people are going to be tempted to mis-identify Glocks if they see these other variants on the page. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Fair enough, and I'm not defending some of these questionable attributions, but I had to replace a pic for a VIDEO game where the gun was a specific variant of weapon (and was specifically NAMED in the game as an off caliber variant), so we still needed the section. Also foreign helmed films don't have the ammo biases that we in the States do ;) the sheer CHANCE that folks will mis-identify the gun is not reason enough to NOT have the section. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:44, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

:::- Well, in the case of those shows, I'll remove the TV subsection until they're confirmed. I will put in the VG entries, though, as they aren't questionable. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::::Whoa whoa whoa STOP!!!!! Don't remove ANYTHING!!! IMFDB users should look long and hard and try to correctly ID guns, but for now just creating a BLANK space is unacceptable. What is WITH this rush to delete everything all of a sudden? If you don't have correct info to replace it with, DON'T DELETE IT! YOu can put a disclaimer on the various discussion pages (that there may be a question as to whether or not the gun ID is correct), but I dont' want to start seeing blocks of empty space. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:47, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::- Uh, wait a minute, the only thing I removed was the TV section for the Glock 20, and that's it. Nothing else. Most of the gun sections I replaced from the other day were '''already blank''' - they didn't have anything before. Again, the TV listing subsection for the Glock 20 section was the '''only''' thing I've removed since I put all the other guns back, and I've since already restored it. Outside of that and adding some subsections to a couple of the guns, I haven't touched the rest of the page. Not trying to give ya a headache MPM, but I really haven't done that much this time, honest. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:45, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I was just reeling from the previous Glock debacle where I spent an entire morning rephotographing a Glock variant, only to realize later that it had been previously there, but deleted. My brain is still traumatized ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:53, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
::- Yeah, I still feel real bad about that.. I'll probably never live that down. Bah. ;b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:59, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

==First appearance==
I remember one of our movie pages pointing out that that film was the first appearance of a Glock Pistol in a movie. Does anyone know which movie that was because I can't remember.

: Don't know. The earliest-set movie page I can immediately spot a Glock (Glock 17) on is [[To Live and Die in L.A.]] (1985), but I'm not certain if that is it. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

That's not it. We have a page of a movie from the early 80s where the page explicitly states that this is the first appearance of a Glock in film.

:
::I'm pretty skeptical that ''[[To Live and Die in L.A.]]'' features a Glock, because they were not being imported to this country for the civilian market at the time the movie was filmed. Though I guess I'd have to see the movie to be sure. Season 3 of ''[[Miami Vice - Season 3|Miami Vice]]'' featured a Glock 17 in one episode (which was used by [[Don Johnson]]), and that's the earliest documented appearance of a Glock that we have on this site so far besides ''To Live and Die in L.A.''.

::''We have a page of a movie from the early 80s where the page explicitly states that this is the first appearance of a Glock in film.''

::Which page? I just checked all of the pages which feature our 1st gen Glock 17 picture, and didn't see any movies from the early-80s. Also, I'm skeptical because the first Glock 17s available to civilians didn't start coming into the U.S. until 1985, so it's pretty much impossible for any movie/TV show filmed before that to feature a Glock (unless it was filmed in Europe or some other country where Glocks were available sooner). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:15, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:::- Not to increase the load, but it might be worth checking under the second gen picture also. After all, not pages pages use the accurate gun picture, whether because they didn't know about the specific differences/generation release dates when they made the page or because the Gen 1 picture wasn't actually around and no one updated the thumbnail. Just a thought. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:49, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:::I have tried watching To Live and Die in L.A. and get a better cap, it just looks like a black gun to me. [[Johnny Handsome]] featured a Glock, it was released in '89. There's got to be a film before that. That Miami Vice episode aired Jan '87. Good idea about checking the 2nd gen pic. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

::::Point taken on the 2nd Gen G17 pic, I forgot about that. But I don't envy the person who has to sort through all the pages on which it appears (nearly 250 in total, last I looked). But I can still tell y'all that you're highly unlikely to see a Glock in any movie made before 1985, for the reason I mentioned earlier. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:10, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:: That's not even counting those that ''don't'' have a gun image, or.. well, you get the point. Bah. I'm afraid we may not find out what page it is, unless Anon's memory gets better. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:44, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:::I just checked all of the page links for all three Glock 17 images. So far, I can't find any movies or TV shows other than the ones mentioned previously that have featured Glocks. Of course, there is still the possibility that somebody forgot to put ''any'' image for some movie that featured a Glock, but I imagine we'd have caught that by now.

:::So, I have reached the following conclusion:

:::*Season 3 of ''[[Miami Vice - Season 3|Miami Vice]]'' is the first media appearance of a Glock 17, movie or TV.
:::*''[[Johnny Handsome]]'' is the first known movie to feature a Glock 17.

:::Unless someone finds any earlier appearances (and has the screencaps to prove it), these are the first media appearances of Glocks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

: Well, it's a page done by Pred, and the section says 'one of the earliest appearances of a Glock', so that's probably what Anonymous was talking about. If not, then we need to kill him for even bringing this up. :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that is the page I was talking about, I just couldn't remember it. Please don't kill me. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::: Sure, but only because you said please. Mystery solved then? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

::Wow look at that, I don't even like Glocks. I don't know if either of you two have seen Johnny Handsome. The gun dealer gave a little explanation about the gun, made in Austria, plastic etc. I just glad it beat Die Hard 2. When I wrote the comment I figured another film had to have featured it before JH that's why I said one of the earliest uses not the first. Unless another comes up with an appearance before JH, [[Mickey Rourke]] has both the first usage of the Desert Eagle and Glock in a film.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:06, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright I changed both the pages. If someone has better wording to use, go for it. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:20, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Removal of Variants that have not been seen in media ==

I was just re-reading the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page and was wondering if anyone has a problem removing the Glock models 24, 28, 29, and 37 - 39 as they have yet to appear in any movies/anime/games. It looks like alot of effort was put into this page so I just want check before making any changes.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Good thing you asked, since I would have been pretty pissed at you if you made such a major change without checking first.''' We've had this come up before. A previous member took it upon himself to remove a Glock variant which has not listed, and then, BEHOLD! it was obviously apparent in some movie or tv listing, so ANOTHER member, seeing that we didn't have the section (it had been deleted) copied a jacked GOOGLE image of the gun and re-created the section. I, seeing a CRAP google image thought "hmmm, I could have sworn I photographed that type of Glock for this page already", so I spent the entire morning rephotographing that model of Glock for the Glock page. When I tried to re-upload the photo, IMFDB warned me that this photo already existed. I was "WTF?" By tracking down the history of the page, I tracked down the member who DELETED the glock section and admonished them that it was just creating problems, since a few days AFTER he deleted it, the model appeared in something. So the rule is: DON'T REMOVE ANY VARIANTS on ANY PAGE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE MPM MOVIE ARMORY PHOTOGRAPHS (which were done specifically FOR IMFDB). Thanks for your attention in this matter :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:56, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:I would leave it, Glocks are hard to tell apart sometimes. So it's good to have all the models on the page for reference. It's not like a user creating an entire new page for a gun that hasn't appeared.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 06:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Damn propmaster no need to yell man. There's a reason I asked in here first. Maybe you should add the blurb about not removing variants pictured by armorers in the rules section. That's the only reason I brought up the question in the first place.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:29, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It's not yelling, it's emphasizing. And sorry if it seemed that way. As for the emphasis, it was for all members. You at least asked, but I must emphasize again, if any member MUST do something, try adding to lame pages, resist the temptation to delete other people's work. Leave that to the mods, unless its something ridiculous. MPM

== Numbers ==
Anyone know how Glock comes up with the numbers for their handguns?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:18, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

They are in the order that they were released...starting with the model 17 for it was the 17th patient to get it what it is today. But some people say that the original name came because it holds 17rds then in the order they were released--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 22:15, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

:Another theory is, if Wikipedia is to be believed, that the Austrian army set out a list of 17 requirements when they were looking for a new pistol to replace the Walther P38. In order for any pistol to be considered for the trials, it had to pass all 17 requirements. The Glock was called the 17 because it was designed specifically with thes standards in mind. Even if this isn't the source of the name, it's still an amusing coincidence. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

== Glock 30 & Glock 36 ==

Can someone explain the Difference between the Glock 30 and Glock 36. They both look like Sub-Compact Glocks in 45. ACP. [[Image:Glock30.jpg|thumb|200px|none|Glock 30 .45 ACP]][[Image:Glock36.jpg|thumb|200px|none|Glock 36 .45 ACP]]
:Glock 36 is a single stack, Glock 30 is a double stack. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:21, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
:Not to mention the Glock 36, while subcompact like the 30, also sports a slimline frame, just 1.13 inches wide and roughly six inches long.--[[User:LordOfTheLocusts|LordOfTheLocusts]] 13:50, 18 December 2011 (CST)
At SHOT show 2013, Glock USA introduced the Glock 30-S, which has the double stack magazine of the G30 and the slim slide of the 36.
[[User:idpassr|idpassr]] 1825, 19 January 2013 (CST)

== 18 vs 18C? ==

Just wondering, is there any difference between the Glock 18 and Glock 18C? I think the proper name is 18C, but correct me if I'm wrong.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:26, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:The C models include a built-in compensator, noted by a rectangular slot cut out in the top-front section of the slide and the compensator ports in the barrel. And yes, 18C is the correct name. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:18, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:: Query, how does making cuts into the barrel and slide reduce muzzle climb? - [[User: 2wingo]]
:::It directs the muzzle flash upward, the force of which counteracts the muzzle climb some by pushing the muzzle down. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:30, 1 January 2013 (EST)

== Full Auto? ==

Can other Glock pistols be converted to fire in full-auto, like the Glock 17-impersonating-Glock 18? Specifically, the 19 and 21 models? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 18:21, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

:Probably yes. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:46, 17 October 2011 (CDT)
::I've seen FA conversions of the Glock 19, 20, 22, and 26. Also shot a FA conversion 17. Fun weapons but not quite as reliable as a factory conversion IMO. Then again the 17 had been shot all day.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 02:35, 18 October 2011 (CDT)

In the Dark Knight the joker uses a glock 17 converted to fire full auto.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:44, 21 January 2012 (CST)

== Glocks in shooters ==

hey yall i was just wondering if you knew if their were any FPS games that included a normal glock. when i say normal i mean all minus the 18, it is a ridiculous gun and has very little practical use. my preference is the Glock 21 but i would like to no if there is any notable games that have any model (minus 18) thanks. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:37, 17 October 2011 (CDT)
:Did you even try looking in the listings on the page? Because I see several listed there.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 21:31, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

::And the Glock 18 is not a ridiculous weapon and ''is'' practical if you know how to use it right (especially the "C" model). - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:44, 17 October 2011 (CDT)

== .380 ACP Glocks ==

Hey all. I edited the Glock 25 and 28 sections to say:

*The Glock 28/25 will very likely never be seen in an American produced film because it is illegal to import in the United States. Since that the ATF ruled it as having no sporting purpose, the only way it will be featured in a film is if the movie is completely produced in a foreign country that has maximum caliber restrictions.

These guns have a less than .01% chance of being seen in films. Just giving a heads up --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:04, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, or if the ATF changes the rules (I know, yeah right, but it's not impossible), or if it's an Airsoft gun or mock-up, or it's stock footage, or a dozen other ways you could probably think up. Try to avoid attempting to predict the future on a gun page. Also, "completely produced?" Haven't you ever heard of "on location?" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:28, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

*Airsoft doesn't make Glock 25/28's, on top of the fact that it's now illegal to produce Glock mock ups now because Glock sued for patent infringement a year or two back. This includes the S&W Sigma series (Glock clones), Airsoft guns, and blank guns. Even if the gun could be used, do you know how hard it is to make a straight blowback gun fire blanks? It just isn't worth the effort. The ATF will not change the rules unless the supreme court miraculously changes the law, which is next to 0% unless people start voting with their brains. Lastly, "on location" filming still has American owned guns used, therefore those Glocks will not be seen. Trust me man, it ain't happening.

PS. I saw your edit on the Glock 25. The Glock 25 can't be imported no matter what. Law enforcement or not, they CAN'T. Also, Brazil has a maximum energy ban (nothing bigger than .380 for handguns,) not a "military caliber" ban. I'm going to fix those parts. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:30, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

:On location filming doesn't necessarily have American guns used. ''Rambo III'', for example, was American-produced but filmed partly in Israel and used stocks of weapons that would be impossible to get in the US, such as real DShK machine guns. The same arrangement (location filming with a local armourer) would make it far from impossible for these weapons to appear in a US-produced movie. Also, I'm fairly sure you're wrong. Here's the section of the relevant law:

:"If importing NFA and non-sporting weapons, please ensure an official government contract, purchase order, or letter typed on official law enforcement and/or government letterhead, bearing the original signature of the chief law enforcement official having jurisdiction over that area, is attached to the completed Form 6."

:The 25 is a "non-sporting weapon" because it fails the import test, but that doesn't stop a government or law enforcement ''agency'' buying it. It does mean ''individual'' officers can't import them, though.

:Also, IIRC didn't Glock do something weird like trademark the shape of their weapons rather than sue for patents? I think H&K did the same with the MP5 at about the same time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:45, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

Pretty much. They sued because the imitations were substantially identical to the iconic Glock shape. Just so you know, the Glock company is a bunch of jerks.

When it comes to using other country's armorers/weapons, it usually doesn't happen. Rambo can be the exception, but 99.99% of the time it's cheaper to mock up existing weapons and use your own armorer than to go out of the way for the real deal when usually no one will know the difference.

Also, that ATF letter is only true in name only. Regardless of signatures or agency, the request to import still has to be approved by the ATF, which it NEVER is. Look around. There are no post '86 machine guns or "non sporting" weapons used by ANY LE agency in the US (not talking about the ARMY/NAVY/Etc.) because the letters are NEVER approved. There's a couple A1 M16's with A2 uppers and MP5's with a pre '86 trigger group in use, but that's about it for LE agencies special guns usage, and all of those are pre '86 weapons.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:35, 2 November 2011 (CDT)
::Not true Ranger. There is a Dealer's Sample MP7A1 floating around the Pacific Northwest and there is a thread on HKPro about a different MP7A1 spotted in the hands of a female Motorcycle officer. I have also seen MP5A5s inside other California police cars. It's not that the BATFE doesn't sign off on the forms its just that most cops have no reason to use Automatic weapons.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 01:04, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, and a LE agency isn't going to be jumping through hoops to buy a .380 ACP pistol anyway, but it's enough to say that only LE and government could even ''theoretically'' import them according to the law for purposes of the page; it's ''not'' true to say they can't legally be imported when the law says they can be. I do agree with you that it's stunningly unlikely for a number of reasons, I just dislike terms like "impossible" being thrown around because I'm horribly pedantic. :) [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:40, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

Agreed. Especially when they can pick up a just-as-good Beretta 84 without the blinking of an eye. I noticed you live in England. Here in America, there are a couple laws which supposedly make certain things allowable with the right approval, however approval never comes and those permits are deemed impossible to obtain.

Some states allow the carrying of a handgun at 18 years old, but Sheriffs won't sign off on it, well just because. In New Jersey, you are allowed to carry a handgun, but to get the permit you need a "justifiable cause," and it happens that the only justifiable one they see is carrying more than $500,000 a day for work. Apparently my self defense isn't important enough to them. It's the same with the ATF. They don't like it, you can't have it. Unfortunately it isn't constitutional, but the judges here don't quite have the guts to end their illegal rule right now. Thanks for reading my rant ;) --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:52, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, everywhere has laws that technically exist but aren't enforced properly. Though ours mostly tend to have more to do with extremely precise ways for it to be legal to murder the Welsh. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:56, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

Bingo. Nice job with the edit too by the way --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 12:51, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

Hollywood is not the only people that make Movies...In fact there are hundreds of movies made every year without america having anything to do with them...and most of the time they are better off for it. Just because a gun is outlawed in the USA does not mean that it cant be used by another country that might decide to make a movie that may some day grace the pages of IMFDB.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:40, 21 January 2012 (CST)

== Glock 18 selector switch ==

Is the slide mounted selector switch on the Glock 18 on both sides of the slide or just the left side? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:34, 8 January 2012 (CST)
:Left side only --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:56, 8 January 2012 (CST)
::Well that complicates things. Thanks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:08, 8 January 2012 (CST)

== Naming of glocks ==

Does anyone know the story behind the naming of the Glocks? Why did they start with 17? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:26, 20 January 2012 (CST)
:The Glock 17 holds 17 rounds, but where they went from there I have no idea.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:00, 20 January 2012 (CST)
::Is that REALLY why its called the Glock 17?!?! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:01, 20 January 2012 (CST)

No its not. It came from one of these two things:
The Glock 17 was called the Glock 17 because it was Gaston Glock's 17th patent.
OR
There were 17 criteria the Austrian military had for their new pistol, that the Glock was made to meet.

Its pretty up in the air, and I've heard both stories from GLOCK reps.
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 10:03, 21 January 2012 (CST)

all the other numbers are in order in which they where made and interduced...the 17 being the first production model followed by the 18 and so on. So the 10mm models where made and interduced before the .45acp models.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:43, 21 January 2012 (CST)

== Stupid question ==

I have kind of a stupid question but why do people think glocks suck so much? or at least people think there not that good of a gun?--Gunner5

Maybe people never had shoot Glocks.And they probably think: "Oh,it's plastic! What an awful pistol! I better use my full-metal 1911!"
But,it's just my opinion. Actually,I have the same question. :) [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 03:07, 29 February 2012 (CST)

:This is pretty comprehensive: http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/gindex2.html Apparently it's mostly to do with [http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/upgrade-faq.html this] and [http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/phase3.html this] happening back in the nineties, and the [http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html pressure failures] and [http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/problems.html slide rail failures] a bit later. People tend to get nervous about a pistol that they've heard might blow their fingers off or try to insert its slide into their nose, no matter how unlikely it actually is (and even after the problem itself has been solved, most of the time). Along with the fact that everything popular accumulates people saying it sucks, obviously. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 29 February 2012 (CST)

Some people just don't like the feel of them. I personally don't like the Gen 3 Glocks; the grip angle is wrong for me, and the magazine release is just god awful. Glock fixed these issues (for me, anyway) with the Gen 4s. Now if they could just make steel sights standard... --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 15:05, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== "Compensated" Glock Pistols ==

Glock offers many of their pistols as a "Compensated" model. They denote this by adding the letter C to the model number - such as 23C. Even though they are called "compensated," they are actually ported. Does anyone know of a "Compensated" Glock being used in film or TV?

:Please sign your posts next time with the signature button on the Edit page's tools. Yes, the "C" models of Glock handguns have barrel ports (which also counts as compensated to most). No, I haven't seen compensated pistols in film or TV (probably because ported barrels are harder to get a hold of than standard ones, and possibly because in certain scenes the redirected muzzle blast that reduces muzzle rise could act in unpredictable/harmful ways), but you could always ask the more knowledgeable members of this wiki. You are far likelier to see compensated Glocks in video games than TVs or Movies, though most of the time they don't actually show the redirected muzzle blast when firing ([[GRAW 2]] is an exception).--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:44, 21 April 2012 (CDT)

==Glock 17/19==
How do you tell the diferance? I can't see anything that's visualy diferant. Also, on an unrelated note, why is there no compact .45ACP Glock? They have a standard, a subcompact, and a slim, but no compact.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 18:13, 23 June 2012 (CDT)

Well the Glock 19 is clearly shorter than the Glock 17 when seen in someone's hand or by itself.

== Stainless Steel vs. Chrome ==

On the various pictures of two-toned 3rd Gen. Glock 17s, I notice that some say it has a stainless steel slide, others say it is chrome. How do you tell the difference? - [[User: 2wingo]]
:Chrome is usually very shiny. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 05:47, 29 December 2012 (EST)

== Glock 29 hard to shoot? ==
I've gotten mixed messages about this one. I've heard that the 10mm Auto cartridge has hellacious recoil, but in every video I've seen it shot in, the shooter didn't seem to be having a difficult time of it at all. Would anyone care to offer their 2 cents? - [[User: 2wingo]]

:Your best bet is to ask the posters of those videos how the recoil was for them. In any case, it's not a .44 magnum--at full loading it comes closest to the .41 magnum. The Glock frame also helps to tame the recoil somewhat. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 19:41, 12 January 2013 (EST)

From one guy I know who has this gun as his off duty carry, it's not hard to shoot and the recoil isn't too powerful. The concept came from testings of women shooters by the FBI saying they can't handle the recoil [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:24, 16 January 2013 (EST)

You also must realize that the original 10mm loadings were a lot hotter than what most ammo companies are making. The loads were reduced due to both complaints about the recoil, and the beating it would put on firearms.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] ([[User talk:Ranger01|talk]]) 21:18, 16 January 2013 (EST)

:Didn't the original specifications from Norma call for a 200gr bullet travelling at 1200 FPS? You can still get that kind of performance level (or higher) from a few companies now. The "beating" put on firearms by the cartridge thankfully ceased after firearms companies realized they couldn't simply rechamber a frame meant for the lower-pressure .45 ACP for 10mm Auto, and made dedicated frames built around that cartridge's pressure levels. As for the recoil that full-power loads have, the right grip texturing and enough practice could help. The Gen 4 Glock 20 has dual recoil spring that's supposed to reduce the felt recoil as well, though for people with small hands, I've always wondered if a Glock 29SF with an extended, threaded barrel to accommodate one of those "linear compensators" (but downsized for pistols) could do the trick . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 22:15, 16 January 2013 (EST)

Full power 10mm recoil generally isn't much worse than .45ACP. It has a little more "Snap" to it than .45. More of a hard lurch than a big push, much like .40S&W. There will be a little more muzzle flip until you get used to it. After you shoot it a bit, that goes away, and double taps become a breeze.--[[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 01:38, 15 February 2013 (EST)

==Them sights==
Kinda awesome how some of these pictures are showing off the new Iron Sight advances Glock has been testing lately!
[[File:Glock 17.jpg|100px|thumb|none|Such as this excellent tacticool dynamic floating sight system!]]
[[File:Glock18c 01-1-.jpg|100px|thumb|none|And this quick-reflex shooting Glock Invisible front sight!]]
My apoligies for being a bit of a jerk, but these pictures make my OCD SKYROCKET...--<BIG>''-Chris'''</BIG><BIG>'''J-''</BIG> [[Special:Contributions/Chris_Jeremic|''' CONTRIBUTIONS''']] 00:04, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:With the first one it is just the really bright chrome on the slide makes the top face pretty much white, so on a white background it disappears. Thanks for pointing out the second one though, the front sight has been cropped off when the background was blanked. I have uploaded a new version to fix it:[[File:Glock18c 01-1-.jpg|thumb|401px|none|]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:33, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

==Glock 30S==
Is it alright if I put a picture of a Glock 30S under the current picture of the Glock 30?--[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] ([[User talk:L.J. Gibbs|talk]]) 10:12, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

- Well, I'd say post it only if it has been shown in something. We don't need every variant of every Glock in existence, only ones that have been in something and/or are in movie inventory. If it hasn't or you're not sure, might want to skip it, or perhaps put it in the 'Other Variants' section here on the talk page. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 12:09, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

--Thank you very much, [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]. --[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] ([[User talk:L.J. Gibbs|talk]]) 17:14, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

==Stainless steel frame?==
Does anyone produce Glocks with stainless steel frames or aftermarket SS frames for Glocks? I just found what appears to be a fully SS Glock 17 in Episode 5 of ''[[Walking Dead, The (VG)|The Walking Dead]]'' game and wanted to know if there was such a thing before I label it a possible texturing goof. The closest I've ever seen are Glocks with stainless slides. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]])
06:31, 12 July 2013 (EDT)

IIRC there are a few manufacturers of all alloy frames for them, haven't seen anything about them in a while, but there definitely are some out there [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 14:27, 14 July 2013 (EDT)

Talk:The Walking Dead (VG)

2013-07-05T12:28:08Z

Recon42: /* Unknown */

== How does it look so far? ==
Obviously it's incomplete (I'm going to get to linking to filling out the proper sections of weapon pages, just give me time), but there's finally enough meat to move it to a page of its own. Any and all additional input, corrections, or flames for doing a horrible job more than welcome. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 14:01, 16 March 2013 (EDT)
:I tweaked it a bit. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:43, 16 March 2013 (EDT)
::Categories, duh! >_< Thanks, Funky and Jcordell. I'm currently trying to locate quality screenshots of the bolt-action rifle in Lilly's hands at the beginning of Episode 2 and the electronic cattle prod that is an optional weapon in the St. John's barn later in the episode. Then I'll play through it again in search of any miscellaneous "background" guns I may have missed. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 23:04, 16 March 2013 (EDT)
Assuming you have the proper program, you can screencap gameplay videos off of Youtube like I did with MGS3.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 23:09, 16 March 2013 (EDT)
:Why does that option ''never'' come to my mind? -_- Thanks, Ice. I'll check there for any HD playthough vids. I'd really rather not use one of lower quality than existing screenshots unless I absolutely have to, since a couple current screenshots already look out of place due to lower resolution. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 23:48, 16 March 2013 (EDT)
::I'll probably be going against everyone, but when I was watching countless playthroughs I couldn't help but think that the Glock is a smaller 19, rather than a larger 17. Either that or everyone has huge hands ;) --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 06:56, 17 March 2013 (EDT)
:::The grip looks too long to be a 19 to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:25, 17 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Well to me it looks like a larger-scale 19, if that makes any sense --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 11:35, 17 March 2013 (EDT)
::::So it looks like a... 17? O_o That ''is'' what a larger-scale 19 would technically be, since, dimensions aside, there are very few major structural differences between them (unlike, say, a P228 vs a P226). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:49, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

== "Wanted" add for screenshots ==
If anyone should run upon a better screenshot of Danny St. John with "Charlotte", preferably one where the rifle's nameplate can be seen, please drop me the link to it here or on my talk page. I'd like to replace the one of Lee and Danny leaving Jolene's camp because it spoils a key event during that episode. Thanks. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:23, 19 March 2013 (EDT)

== Removing WIP template ==
Page is complete. I went through all five episodes and didn't find any other guns (be it in use or even as background images/decorations), so there we go. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 02:39, 13 April 2013 (EDT)

== Unknown ==
I can't ID this shotgun. It has unusually tall sights.

[[File:400DaysShotgun1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The prison bus guard, Clyde, holds his shotgun on a prisoner during an altercation on Day 2 of the apocalypse in the 400 Days DLC episode.]]
[[File:400DaysShotgun2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A clear shot of the weapon's unusually tall sights.]]
[[File:400DaysShotgun3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vince with the shotgun.]]

I still have more screencapping of 400 Days to do, but my machine is being finicky with videos tonight. This shotgun seems to be the only ''new'' gun, though. The rest are all recycled from season 1 (Glock, Beretta Inox, etc.). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:49, 5 July 2013 (EDT)

The sights seem to match the ones on the [[Heckler & Koch FABARM FP6]].
[[Image:Fabarm Sdass tactical -1-.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch FABARM FP6 - 12 Gauge.]]
[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 02:50, 5 July 2013 (EDT)

Isn't that just the SLP from the intro to the main game that's already on the page? Don't think it's a new model. Also what about the revolvers on the table in the diner in Shel's story? There were a few with short barrels that weren't SAAs [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 08:28, 5 July 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Barrett M95

2013-05-30T17:11:00Z

Recon42:

Shouldnt this be on M82 page ? Its basically just bullpup, right ?

- It's magazine-fed, but bolt-action. The 82 series are semiautomatic rifles. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 14:57, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone know if there is a name difference between the the original M95 with the M82 style scope rail, and the current one with the M107 style one? Below is the original M95, which appears in ''[[Hitman 2: Silent Assassin]]'' and ''[[Mercenaries 2: World in Flames]]'' (not 100% about the last one, model is kinda crappy). The one with the longer rail was developed for the M107 program so it had the same improvements that the M82 had to turn it into the M107, but as the improved M95 wasn't adopted it didn't get a new name. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:21, 30 May 2013 (EDT)
[[File:Barrett M95 original.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Barrett M95 - .50 BMG]]

That's the M90, the model that preceded the M95, the updates to the rail system was part of the production upgrade the ended production of the M90 and started with the M95. Hope it helps [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 13:11, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

Talk:The Walking Dead - Season 3

2013-04-01T10:43:43Z

Recon42: /* HOLY CRAP!!!! RECOIL! */

==Season 3 Webisodes "Cold Storage"==
'''The following weapons were used in the 4-part webisode series entitled "Cold Storage":'''

===M16===
B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2. Chase is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.
[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The original M16, the first version, firing in a 20-round magazine, adopted in large numbers by the U.S. Army in Vietnam. It would later be replaced by the upgraded M16A1 - 5.56mm]]
[[File:TWDWebCS02 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS04 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]) is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.]]

===Smith & Wesson Model 29===
B.J. also carries a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] as his sidearm.
[[Image:Smith&WessonModel29.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 Magnum.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|B.J. also carries a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] as his sidearm. ]]

===AKMS===
An [[AKMS]]-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.
[[File:AKMS.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03_01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An [[AKMS]]-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.]]

==Additional Screenshots==
[[Image:Walking dead ak.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Carol Peletier ([[Melissa McBride]]) fires the rifle from a watchtower in "Seed" (S3E01).]]
When did Carol get that gun? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:37, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
:I was wondering that too. One of the plausible explanations is that they grabbed it when raiding houses at the beginning of Season 3. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] ([[User talk:AdAstra2009|talk]]) 00:06, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

[[Image:M4_walking_dead_2.JPG|thumb|none|500px|In "Walk with Me" (S3E03), Soldier 2]]
Same thing with the M4A1. They didn't have it at the end of Season 2, so they most likely grabbed it when raiding houses. Same could probably be said for the Vektor CP1 as well. -- [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk: Antediluvial|talk]]) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:I would agree that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock, along with other guns which we have seen lately on TWD, were all likely acquired as a result of the group's scavenging efforts in private homes after they fled Hershel's farm at the end of Season 2. Rick probably decided to have his group rummage through a storage locker rental facility or two. Plus, Carl did briefly mention something about the group's previous living situation at a storage locker facility during the first episode of Season 3. (Watch TWD's "Cold Storage" webisodes if you have not yet.) Even though most real-life storage facility's rules prohibit the practice, there have been enough people who have kept their firearms and ammunition in their rented storage lockers anyway. A zombie apocalypse would not change this, which in turn could be beneficial to survivors in the know about such things. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::TWD is set in Georgia. As I have posited in a previous IMFDB forum post, Georgia in real life is a pro-gun "red" state that is simply chock-full of guns and gun owners, and not just the "Elmer Fudd" types of long guns normally used for hunting, either. This is especially true in the rural areas of Georgia. Even the Walmart stores there carry Colt AR-15's and Ruger Mini-14's. Despite all of this, the "Elmer Fudd" types of long hunting guns were all that there seemed to be available to Rick's group during Season 1 and 2 of TWD as they stayed in the greater Atlanta area. Some members of the group seemed to be rather anti-gun, too, but now it seems that such attitudes towards guns, along with the group's apparent lack of tactical firepower, is all going to become a distant memory as Season 3 unfolds. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

:::In Kennesaw,Ga there is actually a law that you have to own a gun there.

I own a WASR-10 myself, which a semi-automatic-only version of the AKMS rifle made from a combination of Romanian and American parts for legal reasons. My WASR-10 had solid wood furniture and a non-folding stock when it was shipped to the dealer from Century International Arms. I have not yet seen any of the WASR-10 series come from the factory with a tactical handguard with rails on it. A handguard such as this is what appears to be on Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Also, the sling on her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock appears to be one made for the Mosin Nagant type rifles, rather than one made for the AK/SKS rifle types. (I could see the “dog collar-style” leather attachment straps on this sling in one of the still frame shots of Carol holding her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Only the Mosin Nagant slings have those.) Being that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock was tricked out like this when we first saw her firing it, this would lead me to believe that this gun was formerly a part of some local resident's private gun collection or whatever. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 15:49, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Anybody notice that Carol had to manually cycle the action of the WASR she was using after taking the first shot?

:I would guess that Carol had to manually cycle the action because no BFA (blank firing adapter) was apparently on her rifle at the time. The most commonly found BFA for the AK-47 looks something like a shiny lug nut. (I own a few of these myself.) A BFA such as this would have really stood out in this scene if this was the only BFA available to the show's armorers at the time of production, so perhaps a decision was made to make do without a BFA on this rifle. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::OK, I'm getting a little bit annoyed with people calling any AKMS that lacks the indentations above the magazine a "WASR-10". We don't know for sure that that's what it is, and there are a lot of rifles in Hollywood that are "Franken-guns" built up from parts of multiple weapons. This weapon is more accurately described as an "AKMS" or AKMS-type rifle. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 15:28, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

:::I get annoyed when people refer to a C8 as an "M4A1", so welcome to the club. ;-) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:32, 4 March 2013 (EST)

::::MT2008, isn't the WASR one of the only stamped variants that doesn't have the dimples though? Also I don't get the Franken-gun comment, as we are talking about the receiver here which is what defines the gun. If an AKM has a hooded front sight we call it a Type 56 and the possibility that it is a Franken-gun doesn't come into it, and this is a hell of a lot easier to change than swapping out a whole new receiver so I don't understand why you are singling out WASR-10s. Also, just to add that if you look at the image at the top of this section you will see that there are markings on the right side of the receiver below the pair of rivets at the front, which do not appear on the vast majority of the AK photos on this site. However they are present on all of the WASR photos, including the WASR-10 underfolder. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:26, 4 March 2013 (EST)

== Questionable Production Values ==

Am I the only one who was just laughing their ass off at the low production values of the shootout in the prison yard? No cycling actions, no recoil, no muzzle smoke, it's un-freaking-believable. If you don't want to have to train all the actors with firearms and just CG it for time's sake, fine; but if preteens on YouTube can do a better job with VFX for free, AMC has no viable excuse for that crap. Come on, AMC...
:The budget was slashed after the first season, with some saying it was cut by 20%. (And please sign your posts.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 21:51, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
::The budget is small enough as is, I can imagine the special effects (ie makeup and the like) and locations and all that take up the majority of the budget, then they have the actors. I didn't really mind the courtyard shootout that much.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
::I'm sure alot of that could be chalked up to the safety of the actors/extras, too. If I remember right, the fight was pretty close in.
:::Yeah, to be honest I noticed that, too. Even Lori's Colt DS is being mime-fired. The LEAST they could have done is loaded it with dummy rounds and had her pull the trigger so the cylinder would spin. That looked like total garbage and even I noticed.- [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 03:05, 23 October 2012 (EDT)
::::Indeed, TV shows tend to have low budgets these days. I mean, the ARNG guys were flying around in a single-engine Huey, that should've been a dead giveaway. One of my pet peeves in TV and movies these days is that nearly every helicopter is a Huey; ''TV Tropes'' has an entire page dedicated to this phenomenon. At least they had CGI AH-64Ds, although they were dropping napalm bombs; I don't think Apache Longbows can drop UGBs. Not to mention that most of the second season took place on a farm, and the third season mostly takes place in a prison, although it was much, much better than the poor second season. If I were the production crew, I would've had a CGI helo. A CGI UH-60 would've been much better than a real-live, outdated UH-1. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2013 (EST)
:::::Well, the Huey used by the Georgia National Guard survivors could be justified as being salvaged from a reserve or storage depot or something along those lines since the show was going on a year since the outbreak (and last I checked, you can't actually ''ride'' in a CGI Black Hawk like they were doing...). The one encountered by Rick outside the hospital in the pilot episode, however, is out of place since it was left over from before the military fell apart. Now the real reason why they're using Hueys is because, AFAIK, there are no S-70s/UH-60s in civilian hands (the Black Hawks in ''Black Hawk Down'' were ''actual'' US Army) for productions to rent, otherwise we'd probably see more of them onscreen. Same reason for the use of decommissioned British tanks like the Chieftain to stand in for the M1 Abrams. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:29, 4 March 2013 (EST)

== WASR Rails ==
I think the handguard of Carol's WASR is [http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AKS-103 this model] made by UTG. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 04:13, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

== CGI muzzle flashes? ==

I'm watching the Third Season Premier on AMC's website, and I think they're using CGI flashes on the pistols while they're clearing the prison. The pistols clearly aren't cycling and no brass is being ejected. --BigD, October 21, 8:43 AM
:Yup they were, could have been due to safety as it was really obvious when Carl was shooting, however it could also be down to the severely reduced budget since the first season. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 16:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

== several soldiers had M4A1's ==
Several soldiers ambushed by the Governor and some " self trained soldiers " from woodbury the soldiers had m4a1's. the Governor Got a hold of one I think I may have seen and LMG M60 maybe m249 saw with the soldiers and an mp5k with a woodbury " soldier ". --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 00:57, 29 October 2012 (EDT)

:I'm pretty sure the M4 the governor picks up after the ambush is the one that merle used to shot the zombie over the gate, without the suppressor, and the scope has been taken of but no one bothered to put a rear sight back on, if you look at the pictures they both have the same cloth wrap over the foreguard.

::The Woodbury guys got the M4A1s from the ARNG guys they killed, however, where did Rick's group get them? The prison armory? [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:25, 18 February 2013 (EST)

:::They had at least one prior to taking the prison because Hershel used it during said action. They found at least one inside the prison armory. And the scoped M4 used by Maggie was captured during Rick's second attack on Woodbury, I believe, because it looks like the same one Merle briefly used when Andrea and Michonne first arrived in Woodbury. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:27, 4 March 2013 (EST)

==The Governor's Pistol==
The Governor ([[David Morrissey]]) carries a [[Beretta 92FS Inox]] as his personal sidearm. He also has a Kabar 1221 knife on his right hip, for anyone who may be interested. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 07:38, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: Hi-res pics [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-david-morrissey-governor-303.jpg here] and [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-governor-episode-303.jpg here] that show off the Beretta logo on the grip. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 04:05, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: this pistol doesnt look stainless it looks more like a nickel plated beretta 92SB because if you look closely in the scene where the governor holds his pistol to maggies head it glisens in the light and shines unlike the dullness of a stainless inox also the trigger guard looks rounded --[[User:Policerlhpd |Policerlhpd ]] ([[User talk:Policerlhpd |talk]]) 03:48, 06 December 2012 (EDT)

It's not a Beretta 92SB its a beretta inox the latest episode confirms it.--[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] ([[User talk:Balin21|talk]]) 17:20, 25 February 2013 (EST)

== The Usage of Silencers in Season 3 ==

Much unlike the comic book version of TWD, which is now beyond 100 issues at the time of this writing, the TV version of TWD has depicted the usage of silencers from the very first episode of Season 3 and beyond. I was quite pleased to see this development in the TV version, yet there are other aspects of their depiction that I have found to be just a bit unrealistic. I feel this way because I have had some experience with silencers in real life, so I know a bit about what they can and cannot do.

First of all, when it comes to these improvised silencers made from common objects (flashlight tubes, aluminum baseball bats, etc.) as we have seen so far in the TV version of TWD, it is not really all that easy to make one for a gun that is chambered for ammunition that is more powerful than the .22 LR cartridge. Even then, such a project can still be a challenge. It all depends on the gun which the silencer is being made for. (Living in the post-apocalyptic world of TWD would very likely not make the job of building a decent improvised silencer any easier.)

Secondly, for any silencer to really be worthwhile, the ammunition fired through it must be subsonic. There will be a loud sonic "crack" otherwise every time the gun is discharged. The 9mm cartridge is typically ''not'' subsonic. Most gun shops that I have been to typically do not stock subsonic 9mm ammunition. The only dealers that I have seen carrying it are the online retailers. Despite all this, we have seen Rick and Carl firing their 9mm Glock and Beretta pistols fitted with improvised silencers that seem to work quite well. It would have been a bit more realistic to see them firing silenced .45 ACP pistols actually, since the .45 ACP cartridge is typically subsonic in the first place. The same goes for the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Remington cartridge - they are typically ''not'' subsonic, and subsonic variants of this ammunition are also not widely available. Yet we have also seen at least one silenced M4 rifle, presumably chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington, being fired by Merle at some zombies on the perimeter of Woodbury. That being said, we would have to assume that the characters of TWD have all figured out that subsonic ammunition is essential for silenced shooting, and that they have all been able to acquire said subsonic ammunition since the onset of the zombie apocalypse. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 11:10, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:You are making a lot of assumptions and claims for a show that can't even hire an armorer or get blank fire guns. Firstly, improvised suppressors are not all that difficult to manufacture. It can be done with freeze plugs and steel pipe (though it may not last long). The problem is getting your weapon to function and cycle properly with one. Secondly, the vast majority of 147gr 9x19 loads are subsonic, you do not need special subsonic 9mm to run through a can, any 147gr ball or JHP will be fine. Subsonic ammo is not essential, and in some cases, not even recommended, as it won't reliably cycle the action in some gas operated weapons like an AR. A suppressor is just as important, if not more, for saving your own hearing than preventing others from hearing. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::If improvised silencers were really ''that'' easy to make for just any gun, and assuming that they all worked really well too, then just about every hardcore thug, gangbanger, street-level drug dealer, and bad guy in real life would have at least one or two silenced guns, but this is simply not reality. None of the LEO's whom I know in real life and have spoken with on this subject have been able to tell me about themselves encountering much of any improvised silencers in the possession of criminal suspects during their careers. For some guns out there, yes, it is rather easy to make a decent silencer for them on the fly out of various common objects and without having access to all that many tools. One such gun is the .22LR [[Ruger_Mk_I_/_Mk_II_/_Mk_III_Pistol|Ruger Mk I / Mk II / Mk III Pistol]] series. I have seen silencers made for that gun from drink bottles, PVC pipe, tractor mufflers, oil filters, and even more odd things than I could even list here. In the post-apocalyptic world of TWD however, I submit that it would actually be quite tricky to make an improvised silencer on the fly that also actually works well for a [[Glock_17#Glock_17|Glock 17]] or a [[Beretta_92FS#Beretta_92F.2FFS|Beretta 92FS]] like we have seen on this show's Season 3. Such a silencer would have to be attached firmly enough to the muzzle without flying downrange after the first or second shot, plus, the internal baffles, wipes, or whatever the design utilizes would also have to remain in alignment with the bore from one shot to the next. To accomplish this, it would most likely require swapping out the factory barrel with an extended barrel which also has external threading. I have not yet seen any depictions or explanation on this show about where and how Rick's group would have been able to make or acquire threaded barrels for any gun. For me, it would have been much more realistic if TWD had featured a scene, or at least made a mention, of Rick's group raiding a Class III licensed gun dealer's shop (There are quite a few such gun shops in Georgia, by the way, which is where TWD is supposedly taking place.) that had some professionally silenced guns, made with machine tools, which had been locked away in some gun safes that had not been breached yet by previous scavengers.

::Maybe it's just me, but most of the 9mm Luger ammunition that I have ever seen on the store shelves out there (Walmart, Kmart, smaller gun shops, etc.) is either 115 gr or 124 gr, and both of these are typically hypersonic, since their muzzle velocities are either slightly or greatly above the sound barrier of 1129 fps. What I usually do not see much of on most store shelves are those 9mm Luger 147 gr rounds, which are typically subsonic. (It seems that the heavier bullet weight is what makes the round subsonic by fault rather than design.)
:::I'll second this. I live in Texas(another very pro-gun state), and I shoot as well. At commercial retailer type stores like Walmart, you won't find sub-sonic 9mm ammo. Even a lot of gun retailers/shooting ranges don't carry it. That said, it's entertainment, for better or worse, you can't expect a ton of realism. Just like you may have to accept that some "elite special forces" guy is going to rush into a combat zone dual wielding a pair of .50 cal Desert Eagle or something in action movies, you just have to accept that the characters here have "silencers" that make guns really really quiet, and not dwell on the lack of realism in either situation. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] ([[User talk:DKS01|talk]]) 02:42, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::I have yet to ever hear anybody in the legitimate business of making or selling ATF-registered silencers recommend against using subsonic ammunition with any silencer. If an AR-type rifle is configured as a sniping system with a bipod, telescopic sights, and a silencer, then it would not really be such a big deal to me if the subsonic ammunition being fired through it failed to cycle the action. The shooter would just have to cycle the action manually after each shot. Besides, "One shot, one kill" is the sniper's motto anyway, right?

::Since the whole point of using a silencer in a zombie-apocalyptic world as depicted in TWD would be the desire to quietly kill a zombie without attracting any other zombies in the far-away distance to your location, to use anything other than subsonic ammunition would be somewhat self-defeating as far as I am concerned. The sonic "crack" that hypersonic ammunition makes when fired through even the best of silencer designs can actually be quite conspicuous downrange. I got to hear the difference for myself between subsonic and hypersonic ammunition being fired through various silencers during a Class III weapons demonstration at a target range once. Being that a 62 gr, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 round has a muzzle velocity of over 3,000 fps, the sonic "crack" made by this round after passing through any silencer simply has to be quite considerable. So, when I saw Merle firing a silenced M4 in S3E03 and heard how relatively quiet the discharge sounded, I could not help but wonder how unrealistic that seemed if we are to also assume that this M4 was also loaded with standard, military-issue, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 ammunition. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 00:58, 6 November 2012 (EST)

:::You are forgetting one thing. This is a TV show. They don't need to use actual practical silencers on the guns, they can stick whatever they want onto the barrel and sound FX takes care of the rest. You say that we are to assume that they are using subsonic ammo in their handguns. In reality, however, we don't. If you have seen any movie featuring suppressors, most are just cylinders slipped onto the barrels, not real suppressors. We aren't supposed to assume they are using subsonic ammo, we are supposed to assume that the director wants this pistol to be suppressed, so it will sound suppressed under any circumstances. You are reading way too much into something that has been happening in movies and TV for years. Also, it would have been a huge takeaway from the storytelling, if the characters just all of a sudden went into extensive detail into how they affectively suppressed their weapons and it is much easier just to show the audience, "This is a suppressor, it makes the gun quieter," and not adding on, "But it will only be silenced under extensive conditions." --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:17, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::::Yes, of course TWD is a TV show, but this is IMFDb, where we, the contributors to IMFDb, work to identify the firearms and other weapons used in live action TV show dramas and other genres of popular entertainment. IMFDb contributors also discuss gun-related issues pertinent to the depiction of guns in popular entertainment. Being that many of us IMFDb contributors are rather knowledgeable about guns in real life, sometimes one or more of us will take issue with the depiction of guns in popular entertainment on technical grounds that others will likely not even notice or care about. For me in this case, it was the usage of improvised silencers in Season 3 of TWD. If TWD had featured Rick, Carl, and other characters all using improvised silencers made from common objects on firearms chambered in .22 LR, then I would not have taken an issue with this on technical grounds, because in real life, I know just how easy it is to make silencers such as these that will actually perform well shot after shot, and I know how readily available subsonic .22 LR ammunition is. (Almost every large and small business establishment that sells firearm ammunition now stocks it.) Even though silencers have been depicted inaccurately in popular entertainment for years, now that more Americans and other folks abroad legally own real silencers than ever before, and now that even more folks can go online to watch numerous videos which definitively demonstrate what silencers in real life are really like, I feel that the the makers of popular entertainment will be left with no choice but to rethink how they depict the capabilities of silencers in order to keep their audiences happy. Perhaps they already have - there used to be depictions of working silencers on revolvers in popular entertainment made prior to about 1980 or so. Being that it is nearly impossible to build silencers for revolvers that would be both effective and practical, except for the [[Nagant_M1895|Nagant M1895]] revolver, silencer-equipped revolvers are almost never seen in popular entertainment nowadays. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 07:41, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Yes, I know this is IMFDB, I am pretty knowledgeable in firearms and that is why I use this site. I don't see many pages picking apart silencer inaccuracies, because almost all movies and TV shows depict silencers are small tubes that can suppress anything. It is understood that Hollywood does this, therefore if you want to pick apart the inaccurate use of suppressors in every TV show and movie then you are going to need a few years. Or decades. Or lifespans. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:12, 9 November 2012 (EST)

== Warships at sea, Cheyenne Mountain, Diego Garcia, etc. ==
Do the comics ever elaborate on these and other secure or hard-to-access locations? Land bases like Fort Benning and Fort Bragg getting swamped with sick and wounded civilians that subsequently turn into walkers and overrun them is one thing, but I can't see aircraft carriers in the middle of the world's oceans, a fortified nuclear bunker with severely restricted access, or an isolated island base like DG, having big walker problems. I could conceivably see the government falling back to any such location and continuing to function, even if just to form a floating military nation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:46, 9 November 2012 (EST)
we still don't know anything about this virus that has infected the entire planet. It does seem that everyone, even the living are infected because once killed the normal way, they turn into one of the zombies. Perhaps more restricted places are secured. We still don't know how the virus was spread but if it is airborne, than no where is safe for long. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:51, 9 November 2012 (EST)

:: Everything exalilbur said plus there was never much of any one who confirmed any hope that hinted there was any goverment left on an island or underground it makes sense they ( the goverment ) wouldn't want it to be known they'd prob wanna keep it a secret wait until hopefully the zombies roamed to well they were immobile except the head or till they starved hopefully ( there was actually one hope there was a walker that rotted to the ground and was immobalized cept the head it was hinted this could happen to other walkers ) then they would try to rebuild wat twas lost i saw the walking dead wikia that in the twd world theres 1 human for every 5000 zombies maybe americas combined with the rest of the world and then average out because wit all our guns I'd think * knock on wood * there'd be more survivors with all ours guns gun stores and the guns that were the militarys ... --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 02:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:: I've read other zombie stories where they talk about warships at sea during a similar zombie outbreak. In the Day by day armeggeddon series by J L Bourne, the navy had a carrier group that was steaming off the coast launching raids on coastal facilities for supplies and rescue ops. But he also wrote about how an outbreak on a ship could quickly spread out of control due to the confined space. Also had a sub that had been undersea during the outbreak and remained submerged for as long as they could. A crew member died and stayed dead until the sub had to surface. And Max Brooks World War Z had the US gov't relocated to hawaii after the military cleared the islands [[user:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

I really believe that the climbing number of gun owners in America and how much ammo is bought at the civlian level might work towards making a zombie outbreak impossible or at least controllable. None of the zombie books including Brooks really touch on the American gun culture [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:03, 16 November 2012 (EST)

:I have watched some episodes of a reality show which has followed new episodes of TWD on the AMC Sunday night lineup. "Comic Book Men" is the show which I am referring to here. (No, I am not a fan of this show. How this show got renewed for a second season is beyond me, but apparently somebody at AMC decided to renew it.) I believe it was during an episode of this reality show during its first season when Ming, one of the comic book store employees, made a personal revelation about his greatest fear in life being the zombie apocalypse. Walt, another comic book store employee, then gave Ming a look of incredulity and said to him something like, "Dude, don't you realize how many guns there are in this country?" What Walt said there was one of the few things that I have ever liked about this "Comic Book Men" reality show. "Comic Book Men" is a reality show which takes place in the vehemently anti-gun state of New Jersey, where less than 10% of the population shoots and/or owns guns legally, and I would not at all be surprised if none of the stars of this reality show have ever actually owned or fired a real gun in their entire lives. Despite this, at least one of this show's stars, Walt, seemed to understand that a considerable gun culture truly does exist in most states outside of New Jersey. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

::As for Max Brooks, the author of several "zombie survival" books, the guy's Wikipedia page says that he was born in New York City and raised by Hollywood director Mel Brooks and Hollywood actress Anne Bancroft. Being raised in the insanely anti-gun environment of New York City by parents with Hollywood careers and presumably left-leaning and anti-gun viewpoints, and then growing up to become a "Saturday Night Live" comedy writer based in New York City, would lead me to believe that Max Brooks never got to learn much of anything about real-life gun ownership and marksmanship at any point in his life whatsoever. Assuming that this is the case, this would then also explain why Max Brooks, along with other zombie-genre authors and writers with similar non-gun-owning life histories to his own, all seem to have failed to account for the prevalence of the American gun culture in real life when they crafted their fictional tales of zombie outbreaks somehow being able to entirely overwhelm America, and the rest of this world even, to the point where a complete societal breakdown becomes the end result. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:::While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST)

I haven't read the Zombie Survival Guide, but I have read World War Z (which is fucking awesome). One of the survivors makes a point that panicked gun owners shooting other uninfected people actually caused more casualties during the opening stages of the infection ("The Great Panic" as it's called in the book) than the living dead. I'd say it's a fair point, which actually makes the "more guns for all" theory work against America in that context. - Phalanx

:Max Brooks is nothing but just another "limousine liberal" gun-hating libtard elitist who grew up in New York City and Hollywood with the figurative silver spoon in his mouth. I did my research on Max Brooks and I was not impressed. I read his Zombie Survival Guide too. I surely will never buy his World War Z book though. Eff him and that book, seriously. Max Brooks dissed the original M-16 rifle in his Zombie Survival Guide, but that was probably because he had read about the feed problems which the US Army had had with the M-16 rifle in Vietnam some 45+ years ago. If Max Brooks had ever tried joining the US Military sometime around 1990 or so when he had turned 18, then he would have known that the successor of the the original M-16 rifle from the Vietnam era was by then a markedly much better rifle, because he would likely have been issued the M-16A2 rifle at that time. Instead, Max Brooks went to a small liberal arts college in California that kicked the ROTC program off of campus in 1991, and has had outright Communists and radical leftists as commencement speakers all throughout the 2000's in addition to himself. For all we know, Max Brooks was probably all in favor of all of these policy decision at his Alma mater. It only figures that a typical gun-hater libtard like Max Brooks would put an anti-gun-owner jab into his World War Z book. Max Brooks also dissed TWD TV show simply because his friend was fired from it. To reiterate, eff Max Brooks and his books. I will also say the same about whatever movies he is associated with in the future. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 17:01, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Guys, there's a forum for this sort of thing, can we knock it off here? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:23, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:You mean there is a forum for discussion on how clueless Max Brooks is about firearms in general, even though he professes to know which firearms are the best for surviving a zombie apocalypse? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 18:27, 3 December 2012 (EST)

::What part of "knock it off" is complicated? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:29, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:::Boy, that escalated quickly. I make a chance remark about a novel and you go on a paranoid rant about "radical leftists" and "communists". Never mind that the reference in the book is from a chapter in which the US Military fights a pitched battle with the zombies and Brooks is broadly correct (if somewhat simplistic, but it's a zombie novel, not "Guns and Ammo") about a dozen weapons systems used by the US Armed Forces. Let's slam him for being, according to you, a "libtard" (because he went to a liberal college, shock horror. As opposed to all of those conservative colleges out there, oh wait). Never mind that the book is stuffed to the gills with soldiers behaving in exemplary ways and basically flat out says "the USA won in Afghanistan and Iraq but the public won't acknowledge it".
And frankly, while I'm not saying that every gun owner is a paranoid recluse who thinks the government is reading his thoughts and is ready to greet a Jehova's Witness knocking unexpectedly at his door with a blast of full-auto, to go the opposite and say that every gun owner is a saintly god of trigger discipline and restraint is equally biased. Just go on youtube and you'll find a host of tacticool retards showing off their new piece with fingers on the trigger, pointing it at themselves, et cetera. I've seen cops with appallingly bad drills. Hell, there's even that famous video of the cop doing a gun safety demonstration shooting himself. My point is, there's apparently 270,000,000 privately owned firearms in the US. That equates to what, a very, very conservative 27,000,000 people who own guns? If even a conservative one in 10,000 of said people is a dangerous idiot, or even just not equipped to deal with the stress of, oh, I dunno, THE END OF THE WORLD AND COMPLETE SOCIAL COLLAPSE, then you've still got 270,000+ instances of manslaughter. -Phalanx

::::To add to what Phalanx has to say, we'd also have to worry about less than honest people like the Governor and his band of misfits, Dave and Tony's group of bandit rapists, and possibly even rogue military and police elements. The living can be just as dangerous, if not more so than, the dead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:58, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:::::Also God help your soul if you run into a group like The Hunters from the comics.....[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 21:36, 3 December 2012 (EST)

::::::Yeah, precisely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:20, 4 December 2012 (EST)

:::::::All I know is I really enjoyed WWZ and could care less about Max Brooks politics. Same goes for saving private Ryan and the Director of that movie. Can't understand how someone can trash a book they haven't read. What's next? Trashing an AK-47 after never having ever fired one because it was made in a communist country? So silly.
::::::::Well, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast. Anyway, I'm glad the OP brought this up, because I always wondered what a USN DDG out at sea would have done in this situation, or a bunch of SEALs at Coronado or Little Creek, VA, in the midst of a zombie apocalypse. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:29, 18 February 2013 (EST)

== Guns in S03 E06 ==

One gun looks like a Walther P38.

Neil's gun (picked up by Merle after he kills him) looks like a Walther P9.

The other guy in Merle's party appears to have a Glock of some sort but isn't clear enough to be sure...90% certain of it though. Will upload screenshots later maybe.

Finally figured it out:

[[File:P38TWD.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

[[File:P9Merle.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
Whatever this is, it isn't a Glock. The slide's way too round, and the trigger & guard are not the Glock style. --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 07:41, 24 February 2013 (EST)
:It's ID'd on the main page, its a Walther P99. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:10, 24 February 2013 (EST)

== Finally! Blanks! ==

In the episode "Made To Suffer"(This episode was F#$KING awesome) it appeared that many of the guns were shooting and cycling blanks. The first and most obvious one was the 870 used by Shupert, it looked like both Daryl's AKMS and Rick's M4A1 were cycling blanks at times, Maggie's P99 seemed to shoot blanks in one or two scenes, and many other random guns during the shootout in Woodbury.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:13, 3 December 2012 (EST)
:I'm not so sure they were actually cycling blanks all the time. The M4 looked like it was CGI muzzle flashes, there was a close shot of Daryl's AKMS that was cycling blanks but the wider shots looked more like CGI muzzle flashes. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 09:40, 4 December 2012 (EST)

:I agree totally. They are indefinably not using blanks in all the shots, though I could have sworn seeing Rick's M4 shooting blanks in scene or two, but most definitely not the whole shootout. and you cannot say that the 870 used by Shupert wasn't shooting blanks, I could even see flames coming out of the ejection port when he racked the action.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 21:59, 5 December 2012 (EST)

:I just saw a video about the making of this episode and it has a lot of talk about the guns in the episode. The link is here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i9oA6PYyYc --[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:15, 6 December 2012 (EST)

== More rifles ==

Episode 8, saw a CX4 Storm and a 20 inch AR-15 series rifle with either a tan handguard or tape on it and what looked to be a cali style grip, either that or the actor was holding it strangely. Both in the background, but I'm positive it's an AR-15, but the CX4 could possibly be a dressed up Hi-Point. There were also 1 or 2 AK variants with wooden furniture, possibly Norincos, didn't see if the FSP was hooded or not (possibly a PolyTech), an AR-15 carbine with a rail system and a SOCOM stock as well as a full sized Uzi,a suppressed micro Uzi and what appears to be a Remington 870 with wooden furniture and several MP5Ks. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 16:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

*Minor Spoiler Alert* In the promo for the second half of season 3, the Governor (David Morrissey) can be seen firing what looks like a Steyr AUG (one handed no less). Renegadefunk44 20:41 December 3 2012 (EDT)
:That was definitely a Steyr AUG he was shooting, looked like an A1 model with the built in scope. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 09:42, 4 December 2012 (EST)
I think Daryl's gun might actually be a Type 56 this episode. If nothing else it is definitely a different gun to te previous AKMS as it has a different rail system. Also in some shots you can see that it has the wide front sight, and a couple of times it looked like it could have been hooded to me, but can't find a totally clear shot to confirm. When was the background possibly Cali AR-15, I can't find it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:14, 4 December 2012 (EST)

It was in the background of the Governor's speech at the end, around the same time the CX4 appeared. I think it's the same AKMS though, it looks like the same WASR, but could maybe be a Type 56 with a Tapco RIS [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 12:34, 4 December 2012 (EST)
:I am fairly sure it is a different gun to the WASR as it has the magazine well dimples and a rear sight rail. Also, there are either two different similar looking guns used in this episode or they changed the muzzle device as in some shots it is an AKM slant compensator, and in others it has a straight cylindrical (and it isn't that the cylindrical one is a BFA, as the slant one is seen in blank firing shots. The cylindrical muzzle can be seen when Glenn is handed the AKM (which I think is an editing mistake, as Daryl arrives and is reloading the AKM, next shot Glenn has it, then Daryl has it back before handing it to Glenn before he throws the grenade). Also, I think the RIS matches [http://www.gamepod.com/ak47-full-ris-p-174.html this] airsoft one (don't know if this is based on a real accessory or is airsoft only). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:07, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Pump action sound effect on double barrel shotgun ==
In episode seven, when the hermit aims his break open shotgun at Rick, it sounded like the generic sound effect of a pump action was used, despite not being a pump action.
[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 0:21 4 December 2012 (EST)
:It is possible. The post-production guys may not have known much about firearms and could have added that SFX in. Same thing happened in the 2005 Christian Bale film ''[[Harsh Times]]'', where a pump-racking SFX was added to an [[Armsel Srtiker]]. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:27, 18 February 2013 (EST)

==Shane's Shotgun==
Anybody catch what type of shotgun the resident of Woodbury mistaken for Shane was carrying? --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 13:13, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Judging by the ones earlier, I think it was an 870 [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 17:34, 4 December 2012 (EST)

:Speaking of Shane's shotgun I changed the listing from a Mossberg 590 to a Mossberg 500. Tonight's episode gives a close up of the muzzle as Glenn's carrying it, and the large image of Oscar wielding it shows that it's definitely a 500.

== Spoilers in BDA Picture ==

Is the shot of Carl's ([[Chandler Riggs]]) BDA in "Killer Within" (S3EO4) really necessary, It reveals a pretty big and sad spoiler to the episode. Thanks to whoever blurred out the picture, I really appreciate it.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 23:50, 5 December 2012 (EST)

== The Return of Bernthal (Shane) ==

In "Made to Suffer" rick has a hallucination that ''Shane'' ([[Jon Bernthal]]) is walking towards him during the Woodburry shootout. He is armed with some pump action shotgun. the scene is rather dark but it looks like it might be an 870 with synthetic furniture. I don't know how to screencap otherwise I would add this, but if someone else could I would really appreciate it.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:32, 6 December 2012 (EST)

== Please help ID ==

Not sure about what kind of rifle this is. Colt 933? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 15:42, 13 February 2013 (EST)
[[File:TWDS3E09 16.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]

:The barrel is too short to be a 933. I would say a [[Mk. 18 Mod 0]], or a civilian copy. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 15:47, 13 February 2013 (EST)
::I agree, it is close to the below weapon except without the vertical grip:[[File:Mk18.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mk. 18 Mod 0 with LMT rear sight, Crane stock, and RIS foregrip - 5.56x45mm]]They both have crane stocks and LMT rear sights, but the show gun has the sight mounted backwards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:55, 13 February 2013 (EST)

== FN FAL? ==
'''WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD.'''
When the prison got attacked at the end of the latest episode, I'm pretty sure I saw one of the attackers firing off an FN FAL with an ELCAN sight. Could somebody upload a pic of it, and correct me if I'm wrong? [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:22, 18 February 2013 (EST)

:Definitely an FAL.

==Mexican guy's revolver==
What revolver was the mexican guy on the bridge using? It looked like merele had an old model 10 or M&P

:The revolver on the bridge appeared to be some type of Webley. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:49, 18 February 2013 (EST)
::Judging by the grip it must be a Webley "WG" Army Model but i just guessing here. --[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] ([[User talk:Balin21|talk]]) 12:31, 18 February 2013 (CST)

Merle had a Colt, maybe a Police Positive or Official Police [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] ([[User talk:BeardedHoplite|talk]]) 18:42, 19 February 2013 (EST)

== Haley's gun ==

I just watched episode 8 to 9 again and discovered the Haley was using a suppressed mini Uzi can anybody get pictures of it. [[User:Balin21|User:Balin21]]

== Mossberg 590 (Shane's) Season 3 ==

In the first 2 season's Shane's Mossberg 590 has Knoxx BLACKHAWK! Spec Op's NRS stock on it. From the screen caps already up for season 3, its changed to the Knoxx BLACKHAWK! Spec Op's Recoil Suppression version. You can tell by the fact that the piece that bolts into the back of the shotgun is shorter. Allowing for the body of the shotgun to recoil back. The NRS model... Well the older Gen 1 version, the piece that bolts to the shotgun continues back to where the adjustable stock begins.
:Actually it's a Mossberg 500 Persuader fitted with the NRS stock. Take a close look in the screencap with Oscar holding it.

== The Governor's AUG ==

When the Governor's men attack the prison, The Governor himself is seen practically SPRAYING down the area with some type of Steyr-AUG variant, having relative accuracy with that and his Beretta despite the distance and having only one eye.- [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]
:My problem with the show is that they constantly are spraying bullets when they know for a fact that ammo is hard to come by. Episode one, the guy sprayed his MP5K and most likely wasted 6 rounds before getting that head shot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:36, 19 February 2013 (EST)
::I saw the logistical fail with that, as well. Plus, wouldn't having only one eye, which is a relatively new injury for the Gov to have, screw up your depth perception quite a bit, let alone make you UNABLE to land a headshot with a 9mm handgun one-handed? I love this show but the firearms logistics within it are beginning to wear me down. -[[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]
:::I'm relatively curious as to where he got the AUG from. Unlike the M4s or AKs in the show (which are military issue for the former, thus incredibly common and very popular civilian weapons for the latter), the AUG is not used by the US military (apart from US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and AFAIK they use the full length 20 inch barrel model) and the variant he uses isn't the civilian A3 model which has a Picatinny rail in place of the scope. - [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]]
::::Where they got it I have no idea, I figured it was one of those rare NFA guns floating around out there. As to why the waste of ammunition? I figured it was for the pure purpose of psychological warfare, to let the Atlanta group know that even if they survive this skirmish they can still come back with greater numbers of people and munitions than they'll ever have. Afterall in a world where ammunition is no longer being produced and highly prized, just casually blowing through it without any regard for conservation would suggest they have a large, large supply of it and they have no problem flaunting that.

he took out a national guard convoy, hes got plenty of ammo. better questions why ricks wasting so much.
: Because Officer Friendly is a cop, and in real life ammo conservation and accuracy aren't their best traits. Look at national averages for accuracy and how many rounds they discharge at times. Rick's back to facing live targets again, not just shambling walkers.

== "I Ain’t A Judas" hires promos ==

I came across a few hires promo photos from this episode, and the gun carried by Maggie got my attention:
[[File:TWD GP 311 0919 0203.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[File:TWD GP 311 0921 0286.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
To me this looks like it has a Springfield M1903A3 action (A3 because of the horizontal dovetail a the back which would normally hold the aperture sight), does anyone know if there is a sporting rifle that uses this action, or is this a sporterised M1903A3? Also, Merle uses some sort of AR-15 SBR:
[[File:TWD GP 311 0919 0119.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:02, 21 February 2013 (EST)
:It's another Mk 18-type carbine, with Magpul folding BUIS (the front sight looks to be mounted backwards) and an AAC flash hider added to it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:55, 21 February 2013 (EST)

== Merle's Colt ==

I think, based on the size of the gun relative to Michael Rooker's hand, and the length of the cylinder, it's actually a Police Positive Special rather than an Official Police. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

== Remington 700 VLS ==

I changed the caliber on the picture of the VLS from .270 to .308 - I don't know for sure that it's a .308 but its definitely NOT a .270. Remington only makes the VLS in short action, which can't accomodate a .270. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

== Huge production error ==

Not really weapons related but anyone think it's a bit odd that they have a 2013 Hyundai, yet the apocalypse started in 2010? Is South Korea unaware people are eating each other and just shipping car around the world?

It's most likely an advertisement, the show's popular so Hyundai is probably a sponsor or something, and they decided to put in their newest car... But aren't we talking about guns here? This should go into 'bloopers' section on some movie website :) And You forgot to sign Your post (four ~) --[[User:Alisha161Fishy|Alisha161Fishy]] ([[User talk:Alisha161Fishy|talk]]) 16:03, 25 February 2013 (EST)

It's never stated in the show what year it is (unless I've missed something), so the car's presence is plausible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 02:05, 1 March 2013 (EST)

It's a 2013 Hyundai Tucson. I drive the same one haha. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] ([[User talk:Puppet.of.fate|talk]]) 20:28, 2 March 2013 (EST)

Well about cars and guns, I'll be a little forgiving on new toys mostly because the actual YEAR the show takes place in is never told to us. We can assume it is "present day" but it could be a couple years from now. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:16, 2 March 2013 (EST)

:Let's wait and see if SCARs, ACRs, Masadas, and XCRs start appearing at some point in the show, ''then'' we'll see how forgiving you are. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:28, 5 March 2013 (EST)

== Machine gun ==

I cant figure out what type of machine gun is on the wall to woodbury it looks like a Browning 1919 can anyone confirm it.--[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] ([[User talk:Balin21|talk]]) 09:01, 25 February 2013 (EST)
: It could be but the rifle used by one of the guards looks to be a tactical'd SKS.
::It was definitely a 1919. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:15, 26 February 2013 (EST)
:::An M1919 definitely but, and I watched the episode a few times to make sure, it seems the weapon is lying on it's side as the gunner appears to be holding the grip "gangsta" style. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 22:58, 1 March 2013 (EST)
::::No, it's right-side up I'm pretty sure the "grip" on the side he is holding is actually the charging handle. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 09:56, 2 March 2013 (EST)

== New episode an armory a lot of guns ect. ect. ==

Okay walking dead is almost over won't spoil it rick comes to a town with Michonne Carl finds a huge armory and something tells me that that we're gonna have some work ahead of us identifying it all i saw several Ar-15 variants an AK-47 variant several shotguns and what i believe to be a crate with an mk2 grenade on top a little bit convent that they need all this stuff I'll admit but still ... --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 22:01, 3 March 2013 (EST)

I saw the Remington 700 from the first season, Several AR-15 type rifles, I believe a .50 Rifle without a scope or iron sights, Another Crossbow (I was thinking a Ghost 400 due to the all black coloring) and various wood-stocked hunting guns. Morgan used an AR with an optic I couldn't identify. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 22:35, 3 March 2013 (EST).
: Yeah i think the gun Morgan used on the rooftops and the ground i believe that's the one your talking about was a Colt 933 or a compact Ar like it i don't thinks its the mk18 we saw Merle use however oh and what i think is a Remington 700 PSS or SPS in back of Rick when he asked Michonne you think he crazy --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 00:26, 4 March 2013 (EST)
I saw an SKS in the racks (can tell by the front sight and bayonet mount) in a "Dragunov" style polymer stock with an AK magazine (probably the same gun the Woodbury Guard has). There is also a Steyr SSG 69 which is quite prominent, sitting on its bipod under the "Duane Turned" graffiti. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:34, 4 March 2013 (EST)

The Law Enforcement Carbine and M4A1/M203 from "Walk With Me" made a reappearance in Morgan's armory, too. I saw Rick pick up the former (it had the same fabric wrapping on the handguard as the one pictured in the Governor's hands) and the latter could be seen laying on its side next to Morgan while he was tied up. Prop-wise, all of these guns probably ''are'' the same ones used by the Woodbury Army. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:03, 4 March 2013 (EST) p
:: Just saw a pic of the armory several AK-47 wooden furniture variants what i believe a MP5K on a table ( like spartan said these weapons are probably the same as the woodbury armory the mp5k prob being the one Martinez was using an a box of mk2 or i should say A CRATE fulled with mk2 grenades and what be appears to be a lee enfield but i can only see the underbelly of the weapon so not positive. --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 11:41, 4 March 2013 (EST)
The black crossbow appears to be a Stryker Strykezone 380 or possibly the 350. [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 16:17, 4 March 2013 (EST)
: In the sneak peek for the next episode of walking dead on AMCTV Daryl is seen using a new crossbow identifiable by the accessory rail ( which Daryl didn't mount his Hortons red dot on ) the more shorter stock and a larger hump on the stock I'll link it because honestly i don't know i thing about crossbows but however i do think your right that is a strykezone 350 or 380 except the stock is more collapsed in but also has a woodland scheme to it now the pics i see on google of both they both have either one or the other and I'm not sure so here's the link a good shot is at around )0:37 where it closes up on the stock http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/sneak-peek-episode-313-the-walking-dead-arrow-on-the-doorpost . --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 16:41, 4 March 2013 (EST)

I saw in the grenade bin that looked like german stick grenades and i saw a couple of heckler & koch MP5's by the grenades. And one of the rifles looked like a m1 carbine because of the barrel with bayonet lug and another rifle looked like a ruger mini-14 with aftermarket choate folding stock.--[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] ([[User talk:Balin21|talk]]) 18:28, 4 March 2013 (EST)

If you look behind the lid of the grenade crate the front end of a Famas is just visible. The flash hider looks big, but that is because the grenade support is slid all the way forward. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 10:42, 5 March 2013 (EST)

I got a very I am Legend vibe from this episode. Also, I bet the writer wrote them finding this cache as a reason for why they have so much ammo to burn. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:57, 5 March 2013 (EST)

Also with that many grenades and other explosives, I'd start getting creative in killing the undead [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:59, 5 March 2013 (EST)

At one scene where michonne has the crossbow on her back im sure you could just make out STRYKER on the quiver [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 12:52, 5 March 2013 (EST)

Okay question when Rick was carring out those bags i didn't see any protrusions from barrels and frankly when i first saw i was really worried that he didn't take that many guns and it was mostly ammo i think they took the suit case filled with AR though my explanation is when Morgan said your taking a lot of guns that Rick had loaded up the car with the guns and was taking the ammo last other theory's ? can't wait to see the groups reaction when seeing what rick came back with --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 16:39, 5 March 2013 (EST)

:Like I said above, most of these guns are probably the same props used by the Woodbury Army, so having Rick take a whole bunch of guns this episode would only result in them disappearing in the next one with us complaining "Where did all those guns go?" The show has a low enough budget per episode as it is without the production having to rent tens more guns. You'd think with the show being such a huge success, AMC would be a little more generous, but ''nooooooo''. No wonder television is shyte these days. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:31, 5 March 2013 (EST)

:: I'm right there with ya spartan i hate AMC cut twd budget by reportedly 20% yet someone told me breaking bad has a 3 million dollar budget per episode amc is stupid i was gonna say they probably didn't show the guns taken so people wouldn't notice they were used by Woodbury but still the highest view premiere for any drama on amc maybe if amc did use the money that twd makes a fair share on crap like immortalized or freak show and then put previews for twd to kick off immortalized like with comic book men twd budget wouldn't be stretched. --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 20:50, 5 March 2013 (EST)

:::No TWD previews will make me watch crap like Immortalized, Freakshow, or Comic Book Men, I can tell you that.
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:28, 6 March 2013 (EST)

:::: i know me as well i just record it fast forward fifteen minutes and watch the fifteen second preview for twd which is funny that the show is that good that'll you'll go threw all that just to see a short scene but they figured out twd previews helped comic book men get on its feet so they did it again i felt bad for the killing fans when they got cancelled in favor of putting reality on amc ( they brought it back but still ) its the equivalent putting commercials on tmc its selling out for money or for more money rather but i agree --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 15:44, 6 March 2013 (EST)

==Daryls new crossbow==

talking dead showed a still saying it was replaced as the old one was clunky and norman reedus got a black eye when it bounced off the door. It definitely looks dfferent, i dont know much about crossbows though anyone want to identify?

As already stated on this page it's a Stryker Strykezone 380 or 350. [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 11:41, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
:I think it's a Stryker Strike Zone 380... not a 100% though, haven't seen the episode yet. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 12:02, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

on the front of the crossbow you can sort of see a 0 but the other numbers are too faded to make out. I thought they'd make more fuss over Daryl getting a new crossbow though, [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 12:59, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

On the AMC youtube channel the prop guy said it's "a brand new 380 Stryker." --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 12:08, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

I don't know very much about crossbows, could any crossbow expert explain the differences that will come with Daryl's new one? It's strange he has no optic for it though. [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 06:11, 18 March 2013 (EDT)

== Ep 14 new guns ==

So far I've seen an M1A with a wooden stock and 20 round magazine, a hunting rifle with a scope which looks like an older Winchester Model 70, an AKMS, a Browning M2, pump-action shotgun, scoped Steyr SSG with a suppressor, underfolding AK with a rail system and rail scope mount, a full stock AKM and an MP5K-PDW [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 13:47, 18 March 2013 (EDT)

== Real M2HB? ==

Anyone else think they have upgraded to a genuine M2HB as of S03E14 rather than that mock-up? In the shot where they are fitting it to the Humvee it appears more detailed along with being scaled correctly, and it also appears to have a different mount. I can't remember the name of it but that is the mount that was used on WWII era tanks like the Sherman and Chaffee (see [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/M24_Chaffee_in_Detroit.jpg here]), the round bit on the side (which is a spring housing) is pretty distinctive. My guess is that if they have upgraded to a real one, it is going to see some action before the series is done. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:59, 19 March 2013 (EDT)

== HOLY CRAP!!!! RECOIL! ==

Really? They had to wait for the last episode of the season to put in the cool guns? Let me rephrase, they waited to put in the working guns. This episode had everything the rest of the season didn't. It had recoil, shells, slides were moving, some Magpul shit, etc. I'm pissed they didn't have any of these for the rest of the season. They better do more like that for Season 4.--[[User:NJGunner|NJGunner]] ([[User talk:NJGunner|talk]]) 22:44, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

:I believe they spend more of the budget on the season finales and possibly the mid-season cliffhanger. The show has to operate on a budget and it's my understanding that AMC runs a pretty tight ship. Pinch every penny and make every dime scream as you spend it. Remember that it's also a business. Anyway they're one of the top rated shows in basic cable history according to ''Entertainment Weekly'' so I guess they aren't to worried about us "gun-nuts" over here on imfdb. But I agree with you. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 22:58, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

And they actually had semi-accurate wounding effects for the scene where Shupert/Bowman mowed down the walkers in the yard with Ma Deuce. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:17, 1 April 2013 (EDT)

I loved the whole breaching of the prison. The M32, the M2HB, and apparently there was an AT-4, according to Talking Dead. They might have had a few new guns too. If someone can get a good screen cap of the deuce and a half with the people in it, that would be great. It appears they have a new AR-15 style rifle with an EOTech (I think) 553 and an MOE stock. Again, these are just my observations so don't trust what I say.--[[User:NJGunner|NJGunner]] ([[User talk:NJGunner|talk]]) 01:11, 1 April 2013 (EDT)

:It looked like just a Magpuled M4. The EOTech was an XPS3, I believe. The front base of it had a rounded look rather than the slope and flat "drop off" of the 553. The "M32" also looked a bit small to me. Maybe a Deftec (sp?) launcher? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:22, 1 April 2013 (EDT)

Just saw it, also a valmet m76 5.56, 2 MP5s with Surefire forends, the FAL gets some action, as with the M1A, truck driver uses what looks to be a Browning HP or BDA, CZ variant or a 1911, Remington 870,the AUG is back and an UZI with folding stock extended. Could be more. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 06:43, 1 April 2013 (EDT)

Talk:The Walking Dead - Season 3

2013-03-18T17:47:39Z

Recon42: /* Ep 14 new guns */ new section

==Season 3 Webisodes "Cold Storage"==
'''The following weapons were used in the 4-part webisode series entitled "Cold Storage":'''

===M16===
B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2. Chase is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.
[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The original M16, the first version, firing in a 20-round magazine, adopted in large numbers by the U.S. Army in Vietnam. It would later be replaced by the upgraded M16A1 - 5.56mm]]
[[File:TWDWebCS02 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS04 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]) is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.]]

===Smith & Wesson Model 29===
B.J. also carries a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] as his sidearm.
[[Image:Smith&WessonModel29.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 Magnum.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|B.J. also carries a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] as his sidearm. ]]

===AKMS===
An [[AKMS]]-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.
[[File:AKMS.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03_01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An [[AKMS]]-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.]]

==Additional Screenshots==
[[Image:Walking dead ak.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Carol Peletier ([[Melissa McBride]]) fires the rifle from a watchtower in "Seed" (S3E01).]]
When did Carol get that gun? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:37, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
:I was wondering that too. One of the plausible explanations is that they grabbed it when raiding houses at the beginning of Season 3. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] ([[User talk:AdAstra2009|talk]]) 00:06, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

[[Image:M4_walking_dead_2.JPG|thumb|none|500px|In "Walk with Me" (S3E03), Soldier 2]]
Same thing with the M4A1. They didn't have it at the end of Season 2, so they most likely grabbed it when raiding houses. Same could probably be said for the Vektor CP1 as well. -- [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk: Antediluvial|talk]]) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:I would agree that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock, along with other guns which we have seen lately on TWD, were all likely acquired as a result of the group's scavenging efforts in private homes after they fled Hershel's farm at the end of Season 2. Rick probably decided to have his group rummage through a storage locker rental facility or two. Plus, Carl did briefly mention something about the group's previous living situation at a storage locker facility during the first episode of Season 3. (Watch TWD's "Cold Storage" webisodes if you have not yet.) Even though most real-life storage facility's rules prohibit the practice, there have been enough people who have kept their firearms and ammunition in their rented storage lockers anyway. A zombie apocalypse would not change this, which in turn could be beneficial to survivors in the know about such things. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::TWD is set in Georgia. As I have posited in a previous IMFDB forum post, Georgia in real life is a pro-gun "red" state that is simply chock-full of guns and gun owners, and not just the "Elmer Fudd" types of long guns normally used for hunting, either. This is especially true in the rural areas of Georgia. Even the Walmart stores there carry Colt AR-15's and Ruger Mini-14's. Despite all of this, the "Elmer Fudd" types of long hunting guns were all that there seemed to be available to Rick's group during Season 1 and 2 of TWD as they stayed in the greater Atlanta area. Some members of the group seemed to be rather anti-gun, too, but now it seems that such attitudes towards guns, along with the group's apparent lack of tactical firepower, is all going to become a distant memory as Season 3 unfolds. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

:::In Kennesaw,Ga there is actually a law that you have to own a gun there.

I own a WASR-10 myself, which a semi-automatic-only version of the AKMS rifle made from a combination of Romanian and American parts for legal reasons. My WASR-10 had solid wood furniture and a non-folding stock when it was shipped to the dealer from Century International Arms. I have not yet seen any of the WASR-10 series come from the factory with a tactical handguard with rails on it. A handguard such as this is what appears to be on Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Also, the sling on her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock appears to be one made for the Mosin Nagant type rifles, rather than one made for the AK/SKS rifle types. (I could see the “dog collar-style” leather attachment straps on this sling in one of the still frame shots of Carol holding her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Only the Mosin Nagant slings have those.) Being that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock was tricked out like this when we first saw her firing it, this would lead me to believe that this gun was formerly a part of some local resident's private gun collection or whatever. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 15:49, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Anybody notice that Carol had to manually cycle the action of the WASR she was using after taking the first shot?

:I would guess that Carol had to manually cycle the action because no BFA (blank firing adapter) was apparently on her rifle at the time. The most commonly found BFA for the AK-47 looks something like a shiny lug nut. (I own a few of these myself.) A BFA such as this would have really stood out in this scene if this was the only BFA available to the show's armorers at the time of production, so perhaps a decision was made to make do without a BFA on this rifle. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::OK, I'm getting a little bit annoyed with people calling any AKMS that lacks the indentations above the magazine a "WASR-10". We don't know for sure that that's what it is, and there are a lot of rifles in Hollywood that are "Franken-guns" built up from parts of multiple weapons. This weapon is more accurately described as an "AKMS" or AKMS-type rifle. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 15:28, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

:::I get annoyed when people refer to a C8 as an "M4A1", so welcome to the club. ;-) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:32, 4 March 2013 (EST)

::::MT2008, isn't the WASR one of the only stamped variants that doesn't have the dimples though? Also I don't get the Franken-gun comment, as we are talking about the receiver here which is what defines the gun. If an AKM has a hooded front sight we call it a Type 56 and the possibility that it is a Franken-gun doesn't come into it, and this is a hell of a lot easier to change than swapping out a whole new receiver so I don't understand why you are singling out WASR-10s. Also, just to add that if you look at the image at the top of this section you will see that there are markings on the right side of the receiver below the pair of rivets at the front, which do not appear on the vast majority of the AK photos on this site. However they are present on all of the WASR photos, including the WASR-10 underfolder. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:26, 4 March 2013 (EST)

== Questionable Production Values ==

Am I the only one who was just laughing their ass off at the low production values of the shootout in the prison yard? No cycling actions, no recoil, no muzzle smoke, it's un-freaking-believable. If you don't want to have to train all the actors with firearms and just CG it for time's sake, fine; but if preteens on YouTube can do a better job with VFX for free, AMC has no viable excuse for that crap. Come on, AMC...
:The budget was slashed after the first season, with some saying it was cut by 20%. (And please sign your posts.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 21:51, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
::The budget is small enough as is, I can imagine the special effects (ie makeup and the like) and locations and all that take up the majority of the budget, then they have the actors. I didn't really mind the courtyard shootout that much.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
::I'm sure alot of that could be chalked up to the safety of the actors/extras, too. If I remember right, the fight was pretty close in.
:::Yeah, to be honest I noticed that, too. Even Lori's Colt DS is being mime-fired. The LEAST they could have done is loaded it with dummy rounds and had her pull the trigger so the cylinder would spin. That looked like total garbage and even I noticed.- [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 03:05, 23 October 2012 (EDT)
::::Indeed, TV shows tend to have low budgets these days. I mean, the ARNG guys were flying around in a single-engine Huey, that should've been a dead giveaway. One of my pet peeves in TV and movies these days is that nearly every helicopter is a Huey; ''TV Tropes'' has an entire page dedicated to this phenomenon. At least they had CGI AH-64Ds, although they were dropping napalm bombs; I don't think Apache Longbows can drop UGBs. Not to mention that most of the second season took place on a farm, and the third season mostly takes place in a prison, although it was much, much better than the poor second season. If I were the production crew, I would've had a CGI helo. A CGI UH-60 would've been much better than a real-live, outdated UH-1. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:37, 18 February 2013 (EST)
:::::Well, the Huey used by the Georgia National Guard survivors could be justified as being salvaged from a reserve or storage depot or something along those lines since the show was going on a year since the outbreak (and last I checked, you can't actually ''ride'' in a CGI Black Hawk like they were doing...). The one encountered by Rick outside the hospital in the pilot episode, however, is out of place since it was left over from before the military fell apart. Now the real reason why they're using Hueys is because, AFAIK, there are no S-70s/UH-60s in civilian hands (the Black Hawks in ''Black Hawk Down'' were ''actual'' US Army) for productions to rent, otherwise we'd probably see more of them onscreen. Same reason for the use of decommissioned British tanks like the Chieftain to stand in for the M1 Abrams. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:29, 4 March 2013 (EST)

== WASR Rails ==
I think the handguard of Carol's WASR is [http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AKS-103 this model] made by UTG. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 04:13, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

== CGI muzzle flashes? ==

I'm watching the Third Season Premier on AMC's website, and I think they're using CGI flashes on the pistols while they're clearing the prison. The pistols clearly aren't cycling and no brass is being ejected. --BigD, October 21, 8:43 AM
:Yup they were, could have been due to safety as it was really obvious when Carl was shooting, however it could also be down to the severely reduced budget since the first season. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 16:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

== several soldiers had M4A1's ==
Several soldiers ambushed by the Governor and some " self trained soldiers " from woodbury the soldiers had m4a1's. the Governor Got a hold of one I think I may have seen and LMG M60 maybe m249 saw with the soldiers and an mp5k with a woodbury " soldier ". --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 00:57, 29 October 2012 (EDT)

:I'm pretty sure the M4 the governor picks up after the ambush is the one that merle used to shot the zombie over the gate, without the suppressor, and the scope has been taken of but no one bothered to put a rear sight back on, if you look at the pictures they both have the same cloth wrap over the foreguard.

::The Woodbury guys got the M4A1s from the ARNG guys they killed, however, where did Rick's group get them? The prison armory? [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:25, 18 February 2013 (EST)

:::They had at least one prior to taking the prison because Hershel used it during said action. They found at least one inside the prison armory. And the scoped M4 used by Maggie was captured during Rick's second attack on Woodbury, I believe, because it looks like the same one Merle briefly used when Andrea and Michonne first arrived in Woodbury. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:27, 4 March 2013 (EST)

==The Governor's Pistol==
The Governor ([[David Morrissey]]) carries a [[Beretta 92FS Inox]] as his personal sidearm. He also has a Kabar 1221 knife on his right hip, for anyone who may be interested. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 07:38, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: Hi-res pics [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-david-morrissey-governor-303.jpg here] and [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-governor-episode-303.jpg here] that show off the Beretta logo on the grip. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 04:05, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: this pistol doesnt look stainless it looks more like a nickel plated beretta 92SB because if you look closely in the scene where the governor holds his pistol to maggies head it glisens in the light and shines unlike the dullness of a stainless inox also the trigger guard looks rounded --[[User:Policerlhpd |Policerlhpd ]] ([[User talk:Policerlhpd |talk]]) 03:48, 06 December 2012 (EDT)

It's not a Beretta 92SB its a beretta inox the latest episode confirms it.--[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] ([[User talk:Balin21|talk]]) 17:20, 25 February 2013 (EST)

== The Usage of Silencers in Season 3 ==

Much unlike the comic book version of TWD, which is now beyond 100 issues at the time of this writing, the TV version of TWD has depicted the usage of silencers from the very first episode of Season 3 and beyond. I was quite pleased to see this development in the TV version, yet there are other aspects of their depiction that I have found to be just a bit unrealistic. I feel this way because I have had some experience with silencers in real life, so I know a bit about what they can and cannot do.

First of all, when it comes to these improvised silencers made from common objects (flashlight tubes, aluminum baseball bats, etc.) as we have seen so far in the TV version of TWD, it is not really all that easy to make one for a gun that is chambered for ammunition that is more powerful than the .22 LR cartridge. Even then, such a project can still be a challenge. It all depends on the gun which the silencer is being made for. (Living in the post-apocalyptic world of TWD would very likely not make the job of building a decent improvised silencer any easier.)

Secondly, for any silencer to really be worthwhile, the ammunition fired through it must be subsonic. There will be a loud sonic "crack" otherwise every time the gun is discharged. The 9mm cartridge is typically ''not'' subsonic. Most gun shops that I have been to typically do not stock subsonic 9mm ammunition. The only dealers that I have seen carrying it are the online retailers. Despite all this, we have seen Rick and Carl firing their 9mm Glock and Beretta pistols fitted with improvised silencers that seem to work quite well. It would have been a bit more realistic to see them firing silenced .45 ACP pistols actually, since the .45 ACP cartridge is typically subsonic in the first place. The same goes for the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Remington cartridge - they are typically ''not'' subsonic, and subsonic variants of this ammunition are also not widely available. Yet we have also seen at least one silenced M4 rifle, presumably chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington, being fired by Merle at some zombies on the perimeter of Woodbury. That being said, we would have to assume that the characters of TWD have all figured out that subsonic ammunition is essential for silenced shooting, and that they have all been able to acquire said subsonic ammunition since the onset of the zombie apocalypse. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 11:10, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:You are making a lot of assumptions and claims for a show that can't even hire an armorer or get blank fire guns. Firstly, improvised suppressors are not all that difficult to manufacture. It can be done with freeze plugs and steel pipe (though it may not last long). The problem is getting your weapon to function and cycle properly with one. Secondly, the vast majority of 147gr 9x19 loads are subsonic, you do not need special subsonic 9mm to run through a can, any 147gr ball or JHP will be fine. Subsonic ammo is not essential, and in some cases, not even recommended, as it won't reliably cycle the action in some gas operated weapons like an AR. A suppressor is just as important, if not more, for saving your own hearing than preventing others from hearing. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::If improvised silencers were really ''that'' easy to make for just any gun, and assuming that they all worked really well too, then just about every hardcore thug, gangbanger, street-level drug dealer, and bad guy in real life would have at least one or two silenced guns, but this is simply not reality. None of the LEO's whom I know in real life and have spoken with on this subject have been able to tell me about themselves encountering much of any improvised silencers in the possession of criminal suspects during their careers. For some guns out there, yes, it is rather easy to make a decent silencer for them on the fly out of various common objects and without having access to all that many tools. One such gun is the .22LR [[Ruger_Mk_I_/_Mk_II_/_Mk_III_Pistol|Ruger Mk I / Mk II / Mk III Pistol]] series. I have seen silencers made for that gun from drink bottles, PVC pipe, tractor mufflers, oil filters, and even more odd things than I could even list here. In the post-apocalyptic world of TWD however, I submit that it would actually be quite tricky to make an improvised silencer on the fly that also actually works well for a [[Glock_17#Glock_17|Glock 17]] or a [[Beretta_92FS#Beretta_92F.2FFS|Beretta 92FS]] like we have seen on this show's Season 3. Such a silencer would have to be attached firmly enough to the muzzle without flying downrange after the first or second shot, plus, the internal baffles, wipes, or whatever the design utilizes would also have to remain in alignment with the bore from one shot to the next. To accomplish this, it would most likely require swapping out the factory barrel with an extended barrel which also has external threading. I have not yet seen any depictions or explanation on this show about where and how Rick's group would have been able to make or acquire threaded barrels for any gun. For me, it would have been much more realistic if TWD had featured a scene, or at least made a mention, of Rick's group raiding a Class III licensed gun dealer's shop (There are quite a few such gun shops in Georgia, by the way, which is where TWD is supposedly taking place.) that had some professionally silenced guns, made with machine tools, which had been locked away in some gun safes that had not been breached yet by previous scavengers.

::Maybe it's just me, but most of the 9mm Luger ammunition that I have ever seen on the store shelves out there (Walmart, Kmart, smaller gun shops, etc.) is either 115 gr or 124 gr, and both of these are typically hypersonic, since their muzzle velocities are either slightly or greatly above the sound barrier of 1129 fps. What I usually do not see much of on most store shelves are those 9mm Luger 147 gr rounds, which are typically subsonic. (It seems that the heavier bullet weight is what makes the round subsonic by fault rather than design.)
:::I'll second this. I live in Texas(another very pro-gun state), and I shoot as well. At commercial retailer type stores like Walmart, you won't find sub-sonic 9mm ammo. Even a lot of gun retailers/shooting ranges don't carry it. That said, it's entertainment, for better or worse, you can't expect a ton of realism. Just like you may have to accept that some "elite special forces" guy is going to rush into a combat zone dual wielding a pair of .50 cal Desert Eagle or something in action movies, you just have to accept that the characters here have "silencers" that make guns really really quiet, and not dwell on the lack of realism in either situation. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] ([[User talk:DKS01|talk]]) 02:42, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::I have yet to ever hear anybody in the legitimate business of making or selling ATF-registered silencers recommend against using subsonic ammunition with any silencer. If an AR-type rifle is configured as a sniping system with a bipod, telescopic sights, and a silencer, then it would not really be such a big deal to me if the subsonic ammunition being fired through it failed to cycle the action. The shooter would just have to cycle the action manually after each shot. Besides, "One shot, one kill" is the sniper's motto anyway, right?

::Since the whole point of using a silencer in a zombie-apocalyptic world as depicted in TWD would be the desire to quietly kill a zombie without attracting any other zombies in the far-away distance to your location, to use anything other than subsonic ammunition would be somewhat self-defeating as far as I am concerned. The sonic "crack" that hypersonic ammunition makes when fired through even the best of silencer designs can actually be quite conspicuous downrange. I got to hear the difference for myself between subsonic and hypersonic ammunition being fired through various silencers during a Class III weapons demonstration at a target range once. Being that a 62 gr, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 round has a muzzle velocity of over 3,000 fps, the sonic "crack" made by this round after passing through any silencer simply has to be quite considerable. So, when I saw Merle firing a silenced M4 in S3E03 and heard how relatively quiet the discharge sounded, I could not help but wonder how unrealistic that seemed if we are to also assume that this M4 was also loaded with standard, military-issue, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 ammunition. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 00:58, 6 November 2012 (EST)

:::You are forgetting one thing. This is a TV show. They don't need to use actual practical silencers on the guns, they can stick whatever they want onto the barrel and sound FX takes care of the rest. You say that we are to assume that they are using subsonic ammo in their handguns. In reality, however, we don't. If you have seen any movie featuring suppressors, most are just cylinders slipped onto the barrels, not real suppressors. We aren't supposed to assume they are using subsonic ammo, we are supposed to assume that the director wants this pistol to be suppressed, so it will sound suppressed under any circumstances. You are reading way too much into something that has been happening in movies and TV for years. Also, it would have been a huge takeaway from the storytelling, if the characters just all of a sudden went into extensive detail into how they affectively suppressed their weapons and it is much easier just to show the audience, "This is a suppressor, it makes the gun quieter," and not adding on, "But it will only be silenced under extensive conditions." --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:17, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::::Yes, of course TWD is a TV show, but this is IMFDb, where we, the contributors to IMFDb, work to identify the firearms and other weapons used in live action TV show dramas and other genres of popular entertainment. IMFDb contributors also discuss gun-related issues pertinent to the depiction of guns in popular entertainment. Being that many of us IMFDb contributors are rather knowledgeable about guns in real life, sometimes one or more of us will take issue with the depiction of guns in popular entertainment on technical grounds that others will likely not even notice or care about. For me in this case, it was the usage of improvised silencers in Season 3 of TWD. If TWD had featured Rick, Carl, and other characters all using improvised silencers made from common objects on firearms chambered in .22 LR, then I would not have taken an issue with this on technical grounds, because in real life, I know just how easy it is to make silencers such as these that will actually perform well shot after shot, and I know how readily available subsonic .22 LR ammunition is. (Almost every large and small business establishment that sells firearm ammunition now stocks it.) Even though silencers have been depicted inaccurately in popular entertainment for years, now that more Americans and other folks abroad legally own real silencers than ever before, and now that even more folks can go online to watch numerous videos which definitively demonstrate what silencers in real life are really like, I feel that the the makers of popular entertainment will be left with no choice but to rethink how they depict the capabilities of silencers in order to keep their audiences happy. Perhaps they already have - there used to be depictions of working silencers on revolvers in popular entertainment made prior to about 1980 or so. Being that it is nearly impossible to build silencers for revolvers that would be both effective and practical, except for the [[Nagant_M1895|Nagant M1895]] revolver, silencer-equipped revolvers are almost never seen in popular entertainment nowadays. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 07:41, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Yes, I know this is IMFDB, I am pretty knowledgeable in firearms and that is why I use this site. I don't see many pages picking apart silencer inaccuracies, because almost all movies and TV shows depict silencers are small tubes that can suppress anything. It is understood that Hollywood does this, therefore if you want to pick apart the inaccurate use of suppressors in every TV show and movie then you are going to need a few years. Or decades. Or lifespans. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:12, 9 November 2012 (EST)

== Warships at sea, Cheyenne Mountain, Diego Garcia, etc. ==
Do the comics ever elaborate on these and other secure or hard-to-access locations? Land bases like Fort Benning and Fort Bragg getting swamped with sick and wounded civilians that subsequently turn into walkers and overrun them is one thing, but I can't see aircraft carriers in the middle of the world's oceans, a fortified nuclear bunker with severely restricted access, or an isolated island base like DG, having big walker problems. I could conceivably see the government falling back to any such location and continuing to function, even if just to form a floating military nation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:46, 9 November 2012 (EST)
we still don't know anything about this virus that has infected the entire planet. It does seem that everyone, even the living are infected because once killed the normal way, they turn into one of the zombies. Perhaps more restricted places are secured. We still don't know how the virus was spread but if it is airborne, than no where is safe for long. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:51, 9 November 2012 (EST)

:: Everything exalilbur said plus there was never much of any one who confirmed any hope that hinted there was any goverment left on an island or underground it makes sense they ( the goverment ) wouldn't want it to be known they'd prob wanna keep it a secret wait until hopefully the zombies roamed to well they were immobile except the head or till they starved hopefully ( there was actually one hope there was a walker that rotted to the ground and was immobalized cept the head it was hinted this could happen to other walkers ) then they would try to rebuild wat twas lost i saw the walking dead wikia that in the twd world theres 1 human for every 5000 zombies maybe americas combined with the rest of the world and then average out because wit all our guns I'd think * knock on wood * there'd be more survivors with all ours guns gun stores and the guns that were the militarys ... --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 02:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:: I've read other zombie stories where they talk about warships at sea during a similar zombie outbreak. In the Day by day armeggeddon series by J L Bourne, the navy had a carrier group that was steaming off the coast launching raids on coastal facilities for supplies and rescue ops. But he also wrote about how an outbreak on a ship could quickly spread out of control due to the confined space. Also had a sub that had been undersea during the outbreak and remained submerged for as long as they could. A crew member died and stayed dead until the sub had to surface. And Max Brooks World War Z had the US gov't relocated to hawaii after the military cleared the islands [[user:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

I really believe that the climbing number of gun owners in America and how much ammo is bought at the civlian level might work towards making a zombie outbreak impossible or at least controllable. None of the zombie books including Brooks really touch on the American gun culture [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:03, 16 November 2012 (EST)

:I have watched some episodes of a reality show which has followed new episodes of TWD on the AMC Sunday night lineup. "Comic Book Men" is the show which I am referring to here. (No, I am not a fan of this show. How this show got renewed for a second season is beyond me, but apparently somebody at AMC decided to renew it.) I believe it was during an episode of this reality show during its first season when Ming, one of the comic book store employees, made a personal revelation about his greatest fear in life being the zombie apocalypse. Walt, another comic book store employee, then gave Ming a look of incredulity and said to him something like, "Dude, don't you realize how many guns there are in this country?" What Walt said there was one of the few things that I have ever liked about this "Comic Book Men" reality show. "Comic Book Men" is a reality show which takes place in the vehemently anti-gun state of New Jersey, where less than 10% of the population shoots and/or owns guns legally, and I would not at all be surprised if none of the stars of this reality show have ever actually owned or fired a real gun in their entire lives. Despite this, at least one of this show's stars, Walt, seemed to understand that a considerable gun culture truly does exist in most states outside of New Jersey. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

::As for Max Brooks, the author of several "zombie survival" books, the guy's Wikipedia page says that he was born in New York City and raised by Hollywood director Mel Brooks and Hollywood actress Anne Bancroft. Being raised in the insanely anti-gun environment of New York City by parents with Hollywood careers and presumably left-leaning and anti-gun viewpoints, and then growing up to become a "Saturday Night Live" comedy writer based in New York City, would lead me to believe that Max Brooks never got to learn much of anything about real-life gun ownership and marksmanship at any point in his life whatsoever. Assuming that this is the case, this would then also explain why Max Brooks, along with other zombie-genre authors and writers with similar non-gun-owning life histories to his own, all seem to have failed to account for the prevalence of the American gun culture in real life when they crafted their fictional tales of zombie outbreaks somehow being able to entirely overwhelm America, and the rest of this world even, to the point where a complete societal breakdown becomes the end result. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:::While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST)

I haven't read the Zombie Survival Guide, but I have read World War Z (which is fucking awesome). One of the survivors makes a point that panicked gun owners shooting other uninfected people actually caused more casualties during the opening stages of the infection ("The Great Panic" as it's called in the book) than the living dead. I'd say it's a fair point, which actually makes the "more guns for all" theory work against America in that context. - Phalanx

:Max Brooks is nothing but just another "limousine liberal" gun-hating libtard elitist who grew up in New York City and Hollywood with the figurative silver spoon in his mouth. I did my research on Max Brooks and I was not impressed. I read his Zombie Survival Guide too. I surely will never buy his World War Z book though. Eff him and that book, seriously. Max Brooks dissed the original M-16 rifle in his Zombie Survival Guide, but that was probably because he had read about the feed problems which the US Army had had with the M-16 rifle in Vietnam some 45+ years ago. If Max Brooks had ever tried joining the US Military sometime around 1990 or so when he had turned 18, then he would have known that the successor of the the original M-16 rifle from the Vietnam era was by then a markedly much better rifle, because he would likely have been issued the M-16A2 rifle at that time. Instead, Max Brooks went to a small liberal arts college in California that kicked the ROTC program off of campus in 1991, and has had outright Communists and radical leftists as commencement speakers all throughout the 2000's in addition to himself. For all we know, Max Brooks was probably all in favor of all of these policy decision at his Alma mater. It only figures that a typical gun-hater libtard like Max Brooks would put an anti-gun-owner jab into his World War Z book. Max Brooks also dissed TWD TV show simply because his friend was fired from it. To reiterate, eff Max Brooks and his books. I will also say the same about whatever movies he is associated with in the future. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 17:01, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Guys, there's a forum for this sort of thing, can we knock it off here? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:23, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:You mean there is a forum for discussion on how clueless Max Brooks is about firearms in general, even though he professes to know which firearms are the best for surviving a zombie apocalypse? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 18:27, 3 December 2012 (EST)

::What part of "knock it off" is complicated? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:29, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:::Boy, that escalated quickly. I make a chance remark about a novel and you go on a paranoid rant about "radical leftists" and "communists". Never mind that the reference in the book is from a chapter in which the US Military fights a pitched battle with the zombies and Brooks is broadly correct (if somewhat simplistic, but it's a zombie novel, not "Guns and Ammo") about a dozen weapons systems used by the US Armed Forces. Let's slam him for being, according to you, a "libtard" (because he went to a liberal college, shock horror. As opposed to all of those conservative colleges out there, oh wait). Never mind that the book is stuffed to the gills with soldiers behaving in exemplary ways and basically flat out says "the USA won in Afghanistan and Iraq but the public won't acknowledge it".
And frankly, while I'm not saying that every gun owner is a paranoid recluse who thinks the government is reading his thoughts and is ready to greet a Jehova's Witness knocking unexpectedly at his door with a blast of full-auto, to go the opposite and say that every gun owner is a saintly god of trigger discipline and restraint is equally biased. Just go on youtube and you'll find a host of tacticool retards showing off their new piece with fingers on the trigger, pointing it at themselves, et cetera. I've seen cops with appallingly bad drills. Hell, there's even that famous video of the cop doing a gun safety demonstration shooting himself. My point is, there's apparently 270,000,000 privately owned firearms in the US. That equates to what, a very, very conservative 27,000,000 people who own guns? If even a conservative one in 10,000 of said people is a dangerous idiot, or even just not equipped to deal with the stress of, oh, I dunno, THE END OF THE WORLD AND COMPLETE SOCIAL COLLAPSE, then you've still got 270,000+ instances of manslaughter. -Phalanx

::::To add to what Phalanx has to say, we'd also have to worry about less than honest people like the Governor and his band of misfits, Dave and Tony's group of bandit rapists, and possibly even rogue military and police elements. The living can be just as dangerous, if not more so than, the dead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:58, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:::::Also God help your soul if you run into a group like The Hunters from the comics.....[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 21:36, 3 December 2012 (EST)

::::::Yeah, precisely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:20, 4 December 2012 (EST)

:::::::All I know is I really enjoyed WWZ and could care less about Max Brooks politics. Same goes for saving private Ryan and the Director of that movie. Can't understand how someone can trash a book they haven't read. What's next? Trashing an AK-47 after never having ever fired one because it was made in a communist country? So silly.
::::::::Well, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast. Anyway, I'm glad the OP brought this up, because I always wondered what a USN DDG out at sea would have done in this situation, or a bunch of SEALs at Coronado or Little Creek, VA, in the midst of a zombie apocalypse. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:29, 18 February 2013 (EST)

== Guns in S03 E06 ==

One gun looks like a Walther P38.

Neil's gun (picked up by Merle after he kills him) looks like a Walther P9.

The other guy in Merle's party appears to have a Glock of some sort but isn't clear enough to be sure...90% certain of it though. Will upload screenshots later maybe.

Finally figured it out:

[[File:P38TWD.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

[[File:P9Merle.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
Whatever this is, it isn't a Glock. The slide's way too round, and the trigger & guard are not the Glock style. --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] ([[User talk:Sangheili1155|talk]]) 07:41, 24 February 2013 (EST)
:It's ID'd on the main page, its a Walther P99. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:10, 24 February 2013 (EST)

== Finally! Blanks! ==

In the episode "Made To Suffer"(This episode was F#$KING awesome) it appeared that many of the guns were shooting and cycling blanks. The first and most obvious one was the 870 used by Shupert, it looked like both Daryl's AKMS and Rick's M4A1 were cycling blanks at times, Maggie's P99 seemed to shoot blanks in one or two scenes, and many other random guns during the shootout in Woodbury.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:13, 3 December 2012 (EST)
:I'm not so sure they were actually cycling blanks all the time. The M4 looked like it was CGI muzzle flashes, there was a close shot of Daryl's AKMS that was cycling blanks but the wider shots looked more like CGI muzzle flashes. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 09:40, 4 December 2012 (EST)

:I agree totally. They are indefinably not using blanks in all the shots, though I could have sworn seeing Rick's M4 shooting blanks in scene or two, but most definitely not the whole shootout. and you cannot say that the 870 used by Shupert wasn't shooting blanks, I could even see flames coming out of the ejection port when he racked the action.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 21:59, 5 December 2012 (EST)

:I just saw a video about the making of this episode and it has a lot of talk about the guns in the episode. The link is here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i9oA6PYyYc --[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:15, 6 December 2012 (EST)

== More rifles ==

Episode 8, saw a CX4 Storm and a 20 inch AR-15 series rifle with either a tan handguard or tape on it and what looked to be a cali style grip, either that or the actor was holding it strangely. Both in the background, but I'm positive it's an AR-15, but the CX4 could possibly be a dressed up Hi-Point. There were also 1 or 2 AK variants with wooden furniture, possibly Norincos, didn't see if the FSP was hooded or not (possibly a PolyTech), an AR-15 carbine with a rail system and a SOCOM stock as well as a full sized Uzi,a suppressed micro Uzi and what appears to be a Remington 870 with wooden furniture and several MP5Ks. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 16:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

*Minor Spoiler Alert* In the promo for the second half of season 3, the Governor (David Morrissey) can be seen firing what looks like a Steyr AUG (one handed no less). Renegadefunk44 20:41 December 3 2012 (EDT)
:That was definitely a Steyr AUG he was shooting, looked like an A1 model with the built in scope. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 09:42, 4 December 2012 (EST)
I think Daryl's gun might actually be a Type 56 this episode. If nothing else it is definitely a different gun to te previous AKMS as it has a different rail system. Also in some shots you can see that it has the wide front sight, and a couple of times it looked like it could have been hooded to me, but can't find a totally clear shot to confirm. When was the background possibly Cali AR-15, I can't find it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:14, 4 December 2012 (EST)

It was in the background of the Governor's speech at the end, around the same time the CX4 appeared. I think it's the same AKMS though, it looks like the same WASR, but could maybe be a Type 56 with a Tapco RIS [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 12:34, 4 December 2012 (EST)
:I am fairly sure it is a different gun to the WASR as it has the magazine well dimples and a rear sight rail. Also, there are either two different similar looking guns used in this episode or they changed the muzzle device as in some shots it is an AKM slant compensator, and in others it has a straight cylindrical (and it isn't that the cylindrical one is a BFA, as the slant one is seen in blank firing shots. The cylindrical muzzle can be seen when Glenn is handed the AKM (which I think is an editing mistake, as Daryl arrives and is reloading the AKM, next shot Glenn has it, then Daryl has it back before handing it to Glenn before he throws the grenade). Also, I think the RIS matches [http://www.gamepod.com/ak47-full-ris-p-174.html this] airsoft one (don't know if this is based on a real accessory or is airsoft only). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:07, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Pump action sound effect on double barrel shotgun ==
In episode seven, when the hermit aims his break open shotgun at Rick, it sounded like the generic sound effect of a pump action was used, despite not being a pump action.
[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 0:21 4 December 2012 (EST)
:It is possible. The post-production guys may not have known much about firearms and could have added that SFX in. Same thing happened in the 2005 Christian Bale film ''[[Harsh Times]]'', where a pump-racking SFX was added to an [[Armsel Srtiker]]. [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:27, 18 February 2013 (EST)

==Shane's Shotgun==
Anybody catch what type of shotgun the resident of Woodbury mistaken for Shane was carrying? --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 13:13, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Judging by the ones earlier, I think it was an 870 [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 17:34, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Spoilers in BDA Picture ==

Is the shot of Carl's ([[Chandler Riggs]]) BDA in "Killer Within" (S3EO4) really necessary, It reveals a pretty big and sad spoiler to the episode. Thanks to whoever blurred out the picture, I really appreciate it.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 23:50, 5 December 2012 (EST)

== The Return of Bernthal (Shane) ==

In "Made to Suffer" rick has a hallucination that ''Shane'' ([[Jon Bernthal]]) is walking towards him during the Woodburry shootout. He is armed with some pump action shotgun. the scene is rather dark but it looks like it might be an 870 with synthetic furniture. I don't know how to screencap otherwise I would add this, but if someone else could I would really appreciate it.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:32, 6 December 2012 (EST)

== Please help ID ==

Not sure about what kind of rifle this is. Colt 933? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 15:42, 13 February 2013 (EST)
[[File:TWDS3E09 16.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]

:The barrel is too short to be a 933. I would say a [[Mk. 18 Mod 0]], or a civilian copy. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 15:47, 13 February 2013 (EST)
::I agree, it is close to the below weapon except without the vertical grip:[[File:Mk18.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mk. 18 Mod 0 with LMT rear sight, Crane stock, and RIS foregrip - 5.56x45mm]]They both have crane stocks and LMT rear sights, but the show gun has the sight mounted backwards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:55, 13 February 2013 (EST)

== FN FAL? ==
'''WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD.'''
When the prison got attacked at the end of the latest episode, I'm pretty sure I saw one of the attackers firing off an FN FAL with an ELCAN sight. Could somebody upload a pic of it, and correct me if I'm wrong? [[User:Laqueesha|Laqueesha]] ([[User talk:Laqueesha|talk]]) 01:22, 18 February 2013 (EST)

:Definitely an FAL.

==Mexican guy's revolver==
What revolver was the mexican guy on the bridge using? It looked like merele had an old model 10 or M&P

:The revolver on the bridge appeared to be some type of Webley. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 12:49, 18 February 2013 (EST)
::Judging by the grip it must be a Webley "WG" Army Model but i just guessing here. --[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] ([[User talk:Balin21|talk]]) 12:31, 18 February 2013 (CST)

Merle had a Colt, maybe a Police Positive or Official Police [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] ([[User talk:BeardedHoplite|talk]]) 18:42, 19 February 2013 (EST)

== Haley's gun ==

I just watched episode 8 to 9 again and discovered the Haley was using a suppressed mini Uzi can anybody get pictures of it. [[User:Balin21|User:Balin21]]

== Mossberg 590 (Shane's) Season 3 ==

In the first 2 season's Shane's Mossberg 590 has Knoxx BLACKHAWK! Spec Op's NRS stock on it. From the screen caps already up for season 3, its changed to the Knoxx BLACKHAWK! Spec Op's Recoil Suppression version. You can tell by the fact that the piece that bolts into the back of the shotgun is shorter. Allowing for the body of the shotgun to recoil back. The NRS model... Well the older Gen 1 version, the piece that bolts to the shotgun continues back to where the adjustable stock begins.

== The Governor's AUG ==

When the Governor's men attack the prison, The Governor himself is seen practically SPRAYING down the area with some type of Steyr-AUG variant, having relative accuracy with that and his Beretta despite the distance and having only one eye.- [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]
:My problem with the show is that they constantly are spraying bullets when they know for a fact that ammo is hard to come by. Episode one, the guy sprayed his MP5K and most likely wasted 6 rounds before getting that head shot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:36, 19 February 2013 (EST)
::I saw the logistical fail with that, as well. Plus, wouldn't having only one eye, which is a relatively new injury for the Gov to have, screw up your depth perception quite a bit, let alone make you UNABLE to land a headshot with a 9mm handgun one-handed? I love this show but the firearms logistics within it are beginning to wear me down. -[[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]
:::I'm relatively curious as to where he got the AUG from. Unlike the M4s or AKs in the show (which are military issue for the former, thus incredibly common and very popular civilian weapons for the latter), the AUG is not used by the US military (apart from US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and AFAIK they use the full length 20 inch barrel model) and the variant he uses isn't the civilian A3 model which has a Picatinny rail in place of the scope. - [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]]
::::Where they got it I have no idea, I figured it was one of those rare NFA guns floating around out there. As to why the waste of ammunition? I figured it was for the pure purpose of psychological warfare, to let the Atlanta group know that even if they survive this skirmish they can still come back with greater numbers of people and munitions than they'll ever have. Afterall in a world where ammunition is no longer being produced and highly prized, just casually blowing through it without any regard for conservation would suggest they have a large, large supply of it and they have no problem flaunting that.

he took out a national guard convoy, hes got plenty of ammo. better questions why ricks wasting so much.
: Because Officer Friendly is a cop, and in real life ammo conservation and accuracy aren't their best traits. Look at national averages for accuracy and how many rounds they discharge at times. Rick's back to facing live targets again, not just shambling walkers.

== "I Ain’t A Judas" hires promos ==

I came across a few hires promo photos from this episode, and the gun carried by Maggie got my attention:
[[File:TWD GP 311 0919 0203.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[File:TWD GP 311 0921 0286.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
To me this looks like it has a Springfield M1903A3 action (A3 because of the horizontal dovetail a the back which would normally hold the aperture sight), does anyone know if there is a sporting rifle that uses this action, or is this a sporterised M1903A3? Also, Merle uses some sort of AR-15 SBR:
[[File:TWD GP 311 0919 0119.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:02, 21 February 2013 (EST)
:It's another Mk 18-type carbine, with Magpul folding BUIS (the front sight looks to be mounted backwards) and an AAC flash hider added to it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:55, 21 February 2013 (EST)

== Merle's Colt ==

I think, based on the size of the gun relative to Michael Rooker's hand, and the length of the cylinder, it's actually a Police Positive Special rather than an Official Police. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

== Remington 700 VLS ==

I changed the caliber on the picture of the VLS from .270 to .308 - I don't know for sure that it's a .308 but its definitely NOT a .270. Remington only makes the VLS in short action, which can't accomodate a .270. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

== Huge production error ==

Not really weapons related but anyone think it's a bit odd that they have a 2013 Hyundai, yet the apocalypse started in 2010? Is South Korea unaware people are eating each other and just shipping car around the world?

It's most likely an advertisement, the show's popular so Hyundai is probably a sponsor or something, and they decided to put in their newest car... But aren't we talking about guns here? This should go into 'bloopers' section on some movie website :) And You forgot to sign Your post (four ~) --[[User:Alisha161Fishy|Alisha161Fishy]] ([[User talk:Alisha161Fishy|talk]]) 16:03, 25 February 2013 (EST)

It's never stated in the show what year it is (unless I've missed something), so the car's presence is plausible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 02:05, 1 March 2013 (EST)

It's a 2013 Hyundai Tucson. I drive the same one haha. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] ([[User talk:Puppet.of.fate|talk]]) 20:28, 2 March 2013 (EST)

Well about cars and guns, I'll be a little forgiving on new toys mostly because the actual YEAR the show takes place in is never told to us. We can assume it is "present day" but it could be a couple years from now. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:16, 2 March 2013 (EST)

:Let's wait and see if SCARs, ACRs, Masadas, and XCRs start appearing at some point in the show, ''then'' we'll see how forgiving you are. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:28, 5 March 2013 (EST)

== Machine gun ==

I cant figure out what type of machine gun is on the wall to woodbury it looks like a Browning 1919 can anyone confirm it.--[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] ([[User talk:Balin21|talk]]) 09:01, 25 February 2013 (EST)
: It could be but the rifle used by one of the guards looks to be a tactical'd SKS.
::It was definitely a 1919. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:15, 26 February 2013 (EST)
:::An M1919 definitely but, and I watched the episode a few times to make sure, it seems the weapon is lying on it's side as the gunner appears to be holding the grip "gangsta" style. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 22:58, 1 March 2013 (EST)
::::No, it's right-side up I'm pretty sure the "grip" on the side he is holding is actually the charging handle. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 09:56, 2 March 2013 (EST)

== New episode an armory a lot of guns ect. ect. ==

Okay walking dead is almost over won't spoil it rick comes to a town with Michonne Carl finds a huge armory and something tells me that that we're gonna have some work ahead of us identifying it all i saw several Ar-15 variants an AK-47 variant several shotguns and what i believe to be a crate with an mk2 grenade on top a little bit convent that they need all this stuff I'll admit but still ... --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 22:01, 3 March 2013 (EST)

I saw the Remington 700 from the first season, Several AR-15 type rifles, I believe a .50 Rifle without a scope or iron sights, Another Crossbow (I was thinking a Ghost 400 due to the all black coloring) and various wood-stocked hunting guns. Morgan used an AR with an optic I couldn't identify. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 22:35, 3 March 2013 (EST).
: Yeah i think the gun Morgan used on the rooftops and the ground i believe that's the one your talking about was a Colt 933 or a compact Ar like it i don't thinks its the mk18 we saw Merle use however oh and what i think is a Remington 700 PSS or SPS in back of Rick when he asked Michonne you think he crazy --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 00:26, 4 March 2013 (EST)
I saw an SKS in the racks (can tell by the front sight and bayonet mount) in a "Dragunov" style polymer stock with an AK magazine (probably the same gun the Woodbury Guard has). There is also a Steyr SSG 69 which is quite prominent, sitting on its bipod under the "Duane Turned" graffiti. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:34, 4 March 2013 (EST)

The Law Enforcement Carbine and M4A1/M203 from "Walk With Me" made a reappearance in Morgan's armory, too. I saw Rick pick up the former (it had the same fabric wrapping on the handguard as the one pictured in the Governor's hands) and the latter could be seen laying on its side next to Morgan while he was tied up. Prop-wise, all of these guns probably ''are'' the same ones used by the Woodbury Army. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:03, 4 March 2013 (EST) p
:: Just saw a pic of the armory several AK-47 wooden furniture variants what i believe a MP5K on a table ( like spartan said these weapons are probably the same as the woodbury armory the mp5k prob being the one Martinez was using an a box of mk2 or i should say A CRATE fulled with mk2 grenades and what be appears to be a lee enfield but i can only see the underbelly of the weapon so not positive. --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 11:41, 4 March 2013 (EST)
The black crossbow appears to be a Stryker Strykezone 380 or possibly the 350. [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 16:17, 4 March 2013 (EST)
: In the sneak peek for the next episode of walking dead on AMCTV Daryl is seen using a new crossbow identifiable by the accessory rail ( which Daryl didn't mount his Hortons red dot on ) the more shorter stock and a larger hump on the stock I'll link it because honestly i don't know i thing about crossbows but however i do think your right that is a strykezone 350 or 380 except the stock is more collapsed in but also has a woodland scheme to it now the pics i see on google of both they both have either one or the other and I'm not sure so here's the link a good shot is at around )0:37 where it closes up on the stock http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/sneak-peek-episode-313-the-walking-dead-arrow-on-the-doorpost . --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 16:41, 4 March 2013 (EST)

I saw in the grenade bin that looked like german stick grenades and i saw a couple of heckler & koch MP5's by the grenades. And one of the rifles looked like a m1 carbine because of the barrel with bayonet lug and another rifle looked like a ruger mini-14 with aftermarket choate folding stock.--[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] ([[User talk:Balin21|talk]]) 18:28, 4 March 2013 (EST)

If you look behind the lid of the grenade crate the front end of a Famas is just visible. The flash hider looks big, but that is because the grenade support is slid all the way forward. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 10:42, 5 March 2013 (EST)

I got a very I am Legend vibe from this episode. Also, I bet the writer wrote them finding this cache as a reason for why they have so much ammo to burn. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:57, 5 March 2013 (EST)

Also with that many grenades and other explosives, I'd start getting creative in killing the undead [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:59, 5 March 2013 (EST)

At one scene where michonne has the crossbow on her back im sure you could just make out STRYKER on the quiver [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 12:52, 5 March 2013 (EST)

Okay question when Rick was carring out those bags i didn't see any protrusions from barrels and frankly when i first saw i was really worried that he didn't take that many guns and it was mostly ammo i think they took the suit case filled with AR though my explanation is when Morgan said your taking a lot of guns that Rick had loaded up the car with the guns and was taking the ammo last other theory's ? can't wait to see the groups reaction when seeing what rick came back with --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 16:39, 5 March 2013 (EST)

:Like I said above, most of these guns are probably the same props used by the Woodbury Army, so having Rick take a whole bunch of guns this episode would only result in them disappearing in the next one with us complaining "Where did all those guns go?" The show has a low enough budget per episode as it is without the production having to rent tens more guns. You'd think with the show being such a huge success, AMC would be a little more generous, but ''nooooooo''. No wonder television is shyte these days. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:31, 5 March 2013 (EST)

:: I'm right there with ya spartan i hate AMC cut twd budget by reportedly 20% yet someone told me breaking bad has a 3 million dollar budget per episode amc is stupid i was gonna say they probably didn't show the guns taken so people wouldn't notice they were used by Woodbury but still the highest view premiere for any drama on amc maybe if amc did use the money that twd makes a fair share on crap like immortalized or freak show and then put previews for twd to kick off immortalized like with comic book men twd budget wouldn't be stretched. --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 20:50, 5 March 2013 (EST)

:::No TWD previews will make me watch crap like Immortalized, Freakshow, or Comic Book Men, I can tell you that.
[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:28, 6 March 2013 (EST)

:::: i know me as well i just record it fast forward fifteen minutes and watch the fifteen second preview for twd which is funny that the show is that good that'll you'll go threw all that just to see a short scene but they figured out twd previews helped comic book men get on its feet so they did it again i felt bad for the killing fans when they got cancelled in favor of putting reality on amc ( they brought it back but still ) its the equivalent putting commercials on tmc its selling out for money or for more money rather but i agree --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 15:44, 6 March 2013 (EST)

==Daryls new crossbow==

talking dead showed a still saying it was replaced as the old one was clunky and norman reedus got a black eye when it bounced off the door. It definitely looks dfferent, i dont know much about crossbows though anyone want to identify?

As already stated on this page it's a Stryker Strykezone 380 or 350. [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 11:41, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
:I think it's a Stryker Strike Zone 380... not a 100% though, haven't seen the episode yet. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 12:02, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

on the front of the crossbow you can sort of see a 0 but the other numbers are too faded to make out. I thought they'd make more fuss over Daryl getting a new crossbow though, [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 12:59, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

On the AMC youtube channel the prop guy said it's "a brand new 380 Stryker." --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 12:08, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

I don't know very much about crossbows, could any crossbow expert explain the differences that will come with Daryl's new one? It's strange he has no optic for it though. [[User:Bahlemar|Bahlemar]] ([[User talk:Bahlemar|talk]]) 06:11, 18 March 2013 (EDT)

== Ep 14 new guns ==

So far I've seen an M1A with a wooden stock and 20 round magazine, a hunting rifle with a scope which looks like an older Winchester Model 70, an AKMS, a Browning M2, pump-action shotgun, scoped Steyr SSG with a suppressor, underfolding AK with a rail system and rail scope mount, a full stock AKM and an MP5K-PDW [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 13:47, 18 March 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Weeds

2013-02-15T18:03:12Z

Recon42: /* Serbu Super Shorty */ new section

I put this page in proper format but have never watched it so I couldn't fill in the descriptions, forcing me to put in only the linked gun name (because the gun should be linked in the description, NOT the title). - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

I am watching the series and will ad pics as they pop up. I am not the best at identifying exact models so all the help is appreciated. - [[User:SneakyKitteh|SneakyKitteh]]

== Serbu Super Shorty ==

S01E05, when the house is shot up about halfway through the episode a Serbu is used [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 13:03, 15 February 2013 (EST)

Talk:FAMAS

2013-01-28T20:04:45Z

Recon42: /* The Search for the FAMAS' replacement */

==Additional images==

[[Image:FAMAS-G2 family.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS G2 family - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:FAMAS_G2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS G2 with bayonet fixed - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:FAMASFELIN2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS Surbaissé with magazine removed and scope - 5.56x45mm]]

==Discussion==

Does anyone know if any other countries use the FAMAS besides France?--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 13:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS#Users That should have them. --[[Special:Contributions/74.177.135.205|74.177.135.205]] 14:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:According to Wikipedia, the Republic of Djibouti, Gabon, special forces groups in Indonesia, the Republic of Senegal, the United Arab Emirates, Lebanon, and the Philippine Special Forces use the FAMAS.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:31, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Which makes sense since they are all former french colonial possessions.
: For more FYI, Indonesia, the Philippines and UAE aren't French colonies. They just bought them (mostly) for spec ops use. I know the Special Action Force and Kopassus use them as one of their main ARs. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 14:54, 4 March 2012 (CST)

Hmmm. The picture of the FAMAS G2 on this page is actually of a G1 which is the intermediate model between the F1 and G2. The G1 has the older F1 magazine-well and uses the old F1 magazines, wheres the the G2 has a fuller magazine-well and can only accept NATO STANAG magazines. Check here http://world.guns.ru/assault/as21-e.htm

On a side note, the FAMAS in Metal Gear Solid is modeled after Tokyo Marui FAMAS, which in turn is modeled after the FAMAS G1. I think the FAMAS entries for Metal Gear Solid and Twin Snakes should be changed to the FAMAS G1 instead of the FAMAS G2.

== New image for G2 ==

Am I the only one who thinks that it was a bad idea to overwrite a standard FAMAS G2 pic with the image of a G2 with F1-style trigger guard?? I cannot find any page with that configuration. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:06, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== The Search for the FAMAS' replacement ==

Fans of this gun may be interested in knowing the circumstances behind this gun's upcoming replacement in the future. I happened upon a [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/08/28/guest-post-the-french-army-and-the-search-to-replace-the-famas-rifle/ guest blogger's post] that explains the problematic circumstances the French Army is currently in and how the efforts to replace the FAMAS are being affected. If that blogger's words are true, then the French Army is deep in the ''merde''. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:00, 28 August 2012 (CDT)

Pretty sure they decided to officially replace it with an HK417 variant although they'll still buy some SCAR-Ls as well since SF use them already [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 15:04, 28 January 2013 (EST)Recon42

Talk:The Walking Dead - Season 3

2012-12-04T22:34:24Z

Recon42: /* Shane's Shotgun */

==Season 3 Webisodes "Cold Storage"==
'''The following weapons were used in the 4-part webisode series entitled "Cold Storage":'''

===M16A1===
B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2. Chase is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.
[[Image:M16A1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A1 with 20 round magazine - 5.56x45mm. What distinguishes it from the original M16 was the addition of a raised rib around the magazine release button, changing of the forward Receiver pins, and the addition of the forward assist button on the upper receiver.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS02 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS04 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]) is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.]]

===Smith & Wesson Model 29===
B.J. also carries a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] as his sidearm.
[[Image:Smith&WessonModel29.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 Magnum.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

===AKMS===
An [[AKMS]]-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.
[[File:AKMS.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03_01.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

==Additional Screenshots==
[[Image:Walking dead ak.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Carol Peletier ([[Melissa McBride]]) fires the rifle from a watchtower in "Seed" (S3E01).]]
When did Carol get that gun? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:37, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
:I was wondering that too. One of the plausible explanations is that they grabbed it when raiding houses at the beginning of Season 3. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] ([[User talk:AdAstra2009|talk]]) 00:06, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

[[Image:M4_walking_dead_2.JPG|thumb|none|500px|In "Walk with Me" (S3E03), Soldier 2]]
Same thing with the M4A1. They didn't have it at the end of Season 2, so they most likely grabbed it when raiding houses. Same could probably be said for the Vektor CP1 as well. -- [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk: Antediluvial|talk]]) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:I would agree that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock, along with other guns which we have seen lately on TWD, were all likely acquired as a result of the group's scavenging efforts in private homes after they fled Hershel's farm at the end of Season 2. Rick probably decided to have his group rummage through a storage locker rental facility or two. Plus, Carl did briefly mention something about the group's previous living situation at a storage locker facility during the first episode of Season 3. (Watch TWD's "Cold Storage" webisodes if you have not yet.) Even though most real-life storage facility's rules prohibit the practice, there have been enough people who have kept their firearms and ammunition in their rented storage lockers anyway. A zombie apocalypse would not change this, which in turn could be beneficial to survivors in the know about such things. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::TWD is set in Georgia. As I have posited in a previous IMFDB forum post, Georgia in real life is a pro-gun "red" state that is simply chock-full of guns and gun owners, and not just the "Elmer Fudd" types of long guns normally used for hunting, either. This is especially true in the rural areas of Georgia. Even the Walmart stores there carry Colt AR-15's and Ruger Mini-14's. Despite all of this, the "Elmer Fudd" types of long hunting guns were all that there seemed to be available to Rick's group during Season 1 and 2 of TWD as they stayed in the greater Atlanta area. Some members of the group seemed to be rather anti-gun, too, but now it seems that such attitudes towards guns, along with the group's apparent lack of tactical firepower, is all going to become a distant memory as Season 3 unfolds. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

:::In Kennesaw,Ga there is actually a law that you have to own a gun there.

I own a WASR-10 myself, which a semi-automatic-only version of the AKMS rifle made from a combination of Romanian and American parts for legal reasons. My WASR-10 had solid wood furniture and a non-folding stock when it was shipped to the dealer from Century International Arms. I have not yet seen any of the WASR-10 series come from the factory with a tactical handguard with rails on it. A handguard such as this is what appears to be on Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Also, the sling on her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock appears to be one made for the Mosin Nagant type rifles, rather than one made for the AK/SKS rifle types. (I could see the “dog collar-style” leather attachment straps on this sling in one of the still frame shots of Carol holding her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Only the Mosin Nagant slings have those.) Being that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock was tricked out like this when we first saw her firing it, this would lead me to believe that this gun was formerly a part of some local resident's private gun collection or whatever. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 15:49, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Anybody notice that Carol had to manually cycle the action of the WASR she was using after taking the first shot?

:I would guess that Carol had to manually cycle the action because no BFA (blank firing adapter) was apparently on her rifle at the time. The most commonly found BFA for the AK-47 looks something like a shiny lug nut. (I own a few of these myself.) A BFA such as this would have really stood out in this scene if this was the only BFA available to the show's armorers at the time of production, so perhaps a decision was made to make do without a BFA on this rifle. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::OK, I'm getting a little bit annoyed with people calling any AKMS that lacks the indentations above the magazine a "WASR-10". We don't know for sure that that's what it is, and there are a lot of rifles in Hollywood that are "Franken-guns" built up from parts of multiple weapons. This weapon is more accurately described as an "AKMS" or AKMS-type rifle. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 15:28, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== Questionable Production Values ==

Am I the only one who was just laughing their ass off at the low production values of the shootout in the prison yard? No cycling actions, no recoil, no muzzle smoke, it's un-freaking-believable. If you don't want to have to train all the actors with firearms and just CG it for time's sake, fine; but if preteens on YouTube can do a better job with VFX for free, AMC has no viable excuse for that crap. Come on, AMC...
:The budget was slashed after the first season, with some saying it was cut by 20%. (And please sign your posts.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 21:51, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
::The budget is small enough as is, I can imagine the special effects (ie makeup and the like) and locations and all that take up the majority of the budget, then they have the actors. I didn't really mind the courtyard shootout that much.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
::I'm sure alot of that could be chalked up to the safety of the actors/extras, too. If I remember right, the fight was pretty close in.
:Yeah, to be honest I noticed that, too. Even Lori's Colt DS is being mime-fired. The LEAST they could have done is loaded it with dummy rounds and had her pull the trigger so the cylinder would spin. That looked like total garbage and even I noticed.- [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 03:05, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== WASR Rails ==
I think the handguard of Carol's WASR is [http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AKS-103 this model] made by UTG. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 04:13, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

== CGI muzzle flashes? ==

I'm watching the Third Season Premier on AMC's website, and I think they're using CGI flashes on the pistols while they're clearing the prison. The pistols clearly aren't cycling and no brass is being ejected. --BigD, October 21, 8:43 AM
:Yup they were, could have been due to safety as it was really obvious when Carl was shooting, however it could also be down to the severely reduced budget since the first season. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 16:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

== several soldiers had M4A1's ==

Several soldiers ambushed by the Governor and some " self trained soldiers " from woodbury the soldiers had m4a1's. the Governor Got a hold of one I think I may have seen and LMG M60 maybe m249 saw with the soldiers and an mp5k with a woodbury " soldier ". --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 00:57, 29 October 2012 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure the M4 the governor picks up after the ambush is the one that merle used to shot the zombie over the gate, without the suppressor, and the scope has been taken of but no one bothered to put a rear sight back on, if you look at the pictures they both have the same cloth wrap over the foreguard

==The Governor's Pistol==
The Governor ([[David Morrissey]]) carries a [[Beretta 92FS Inox]] as his personal sidearm. He also has a Kabar 1221 knife on his right hip, for anyone who may be interested. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 07:38, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: Hi-res pics [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-david-morrissey-governor-303.jpg here] and [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-governor-episode-303.jpg here] that show off the Beretta logo on the grip. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 04:05, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

== The Usage of Silencers in Season 3 ==

Much unlike the comic book version of TWD, which is now beyond 100 issues at the time of this writing, the TV version of TWD has depicted the usage of silencers from the very first episode of Season 3 and beyond. I was quite pleased to see this development in the TV version, yet there are other aspects of their depiction that I have found to be just a bit unrealistic. I feel this way because I have had some experience with silencers in real life, so I know a bit about what they can and cannot do.

First of all, when it comes to these improvised silencers made from common objects (flashlight tubes, aluminum baseball bats, etc.) as we have seen so far in the TV version of TWD, it is not really all that easy to make one for a gun that is chambered for ammunition that is more powerful than the .22 LR cartridge. Even then, such a project can still be a challenge. It all depends on the gun which the silencer is being made for. (Living in the post-apocalyptic world of TWD would very likely not make the job of building a decent improvised silencer any easier.)

Secondly, for any silencer to really be worthwhile, the ammunition fired through it must be subsonic. There will be a loud sonic "crack" otherwise every time the gun is discharged. The 9mm cartridge is typically ''not'' subsonic. Most gun shops that I have been to typically do not stock subsonic 9mm ammunition. The only dealers that I have seen carrying it are the online retailers. Despite all this, we have seen Rick and Carl firing their 9mm Glock and Beretta pistols fitted with improvised silencers that seem to work quite well. It would have been a bit more realistic to see them firing silenced .45 ACP pistols actually, since the .45 ACP cartridge is typically subsonic in the first place. The same goes for the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Remington cartridge - they are typically ''not'' subsonic, and subsonic variants of this ammunition are also not widely available. Yet we have also seen at least one silenced M4 rifle, presumably chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington, being fired by Merle at some zombies on the perimeter of Woodbury. That being said, we would have to assume that the characters of TWD have all figured out that subsonic ammunition is essential for silenced shooting, and that they have all been able to acquire said subsonic ammunition since the onset of the zombie apocalypse. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 11:10, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:You are making a lot of assumptions and claims for a show that can't even hire an armorer or get blank fire guns. Firstly, improvised suppressors are not all that difficult to manufacture. It can be done with freeze plugs and steel pipe (though it may not last long). The problem is getting your weapon to function and cycle properly with one. Secondly, the vast majority of 147gr 9x19 loads are subsonic, you do not need special subsonic 9mm to run through a can, any 147gr ball or JHP will be fine. Subsonic ammo is not essential, and in some cases, not even recommended, as it won't reliably cycle the action in some gas operated weapons like an AR. A suppressor is just as important, if not more, for saving your own hearing than preventing others from hearing. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::If improvised silencers were really ''that'' easy to make for just any gun, and assuming that they all worked really well too, then just about every hardcore thug, gangbanger, street-level drug dealer, and bad guy in real life would have at least one or two silenced guns, but this is simply not reality. None of the LEO's whom I know in real life and have spoken with on this subject have been able to tell me about themselves encountering much of any improvised silencers in the possession of criminal suspects during their careers. For some guns out there, yes, it is rather easy to make a decent silencer for them on the fly out of various common objects and without having access to all that many tools. One such gun is the .22LR [[Ruger_Mk_I_/_Mk_II_/_Mk_III_Pistol|Ruger Mk I / Mk II / Mk III Pistol]] series. I have seen silencers made for that gun from drink bottles, PVC pipe, tractor mufflers, oil filters, and even more odd things than I could even list here. In the post-apocalyptic world of TWD however, I submit that it would actually be quite tricky to make an improvised silencer on the fly that also actually works well for a [[Glock_17#Glock_17|Glock 17]] or a [[Beretta_92FS#Beretta_92F.2FFS|Beretta 92FS]] like we have seen on this show's Season 3. Such a silencer would have to be attached firmly enough to the muzzle without flying downrange after the first or second shot, plus, the internal baffles, wipes, or whatever the design utilizes would also have to remain in alignment with the bore from one shot to the next. To accomplish this, it would most likely require swapping out the factory barrel with an extended barrel which also has external threading. I have not yet seen any depictions or explanation on this show about where and how Rick's group would have been able to make or acquire threaded barrels for any gun. For me, it would have been much more realistic if TWD had featured a scene, or at least made a mention, of Rick's group raiding a Class III licensed gun dealer's shop (There are quite a few such gun shops in Georgia, by the way, which is where TWD is supposedly taking place.) that had some professionally silenced guns, made with machine tools, which had been locked away in some gun safes that had not been breached yet by previous scavengers.

::Maybe it's just me, but most of the 9mm Luger ammunition that I have ever seen on the store shelves out there (Walmart, Kmart, smaller gun shops, etc.) is either 115 gr or 124 gr, and both of these are typically hypersonic, since their muzzle velocities are either slightly or greatly above the sound barrier of 1129 fps. What I usually do not see much of on most store shelves are those 9mm Luger 147 gr rounds, which are typically subsonic. (It seems that the heavier bullet weight is what makes the round subsonic by fault rather than design.)
:::I'll second this. I live in Texas(another very pro-gun state), and I shoot as well. At commercial retailer type stores like Walmart, you won't find sub-sonic 9mm ammo. Even a lot of gun retailers/shooting ranges don't carry it. That said, it's entertainment, for better or worse, you can't expect a ton of realism. Just like you may have to accept that some "elite special forces" guy is going to rush into a combat zone dual wielding a pair of .50 cal Desert Eagle or something in action movies, you just have to accept that the characters here have "silencers" that make guns really really quiet, and not dwell on the lack of realism in either situation. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] ([[User talk:DKS01|talk]]) 02:42, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::I have yet to ever hear anybody in the legitimate business of making or selling ATF-registered silencers recommend against using subsonic ammunition with any silencer. If an AR-type rifle is configured as a sniping system with a bipod, telescopic sights, and a silencer, then it would not really be such a big deal to me if the subsonic ammunition being fired through it failed to cycle the action. The shooter would just have to cycle the action manually after each shot. Besides, "One shot, one kill" is the sniper's motto anyway, right?

::Since the whole point of using a silencer in a zombie-apocalyptic world as depicted in TWD would be the desire to quietly kill a zombie without attracting any other zombies in the far-away distance to your location, to use anything other than subsonic ammunition would be somewhat self-defeating as far as I am concerned. The sonic "crack" that hypersonic ammunition makes when fired through even the best of silencer designs can actually be quite conspicuous downrange. I got to hear the difference for myself between subsonic and hypersonic ammunition being fired through various silencers during a Class III weapons demonstration at a target range once. Being that a 62 gr, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 round has a muzzle velocity of over 3,000 fps, the sonic "crack" made by this round after passing through any silencer simply has to be quite considerable. So, when I saw Merle firing a silenced M4 in S3E03 and heard how relatively quiet the discharge sounded, I could not help but wonder how unrealistic that seemed if we are to also assume that this M4 was also loaded with standard, military-issue, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 ammunition. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 00:58, 6 November 2012 (EST)

:::You are forgetting one thing. This is a TV show. They don't need to use actual practical silencers on the guns, they can stick whatever they want onto the barrel and sound FX takes care of the rest. You say that we are to assume that they are using subsonic ammo in their handguns. In reality, however, we don't. If you have seen any movie featuring suppressors, most are just cylinders slipped onto the barrels, not real suppressors. We aren't supposed to assume they are using subsonic ammo, we are supposed to assume that the director wants this pistol to be suppressed, so it will sound suppressed under any circumstances. You are reading way too much into something that has been happening in movies and TV for years. Also, it would have been a huge takeaway from the storytelling, if the characters just all of a sudden went into extensive detail into how they affectively suppressed their weapons and it is much easier just to show the audience, "This is a suppressor, it makes the gun quieter," and not adding on, "But it will only be silenced under extensive conditions." --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:17, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::::Yes, of course TWD is a TV show, but this is IMFDb, where we, the contributors to IMFDb, work to identify the firearms and other weapons used in live action TV show dramas and other genres of popular entertainment. IMFDb contributors also discuss gun-related issues pertinent to the depiction of guns in popular entertainment. Being that many of us IMFDb contributors are rather knowledgeable about guns in real life, sometimes one or more of us will take issue with the depiction of guns in popular entertainment on technical grounds that others will likely not even notice or care about. For me in this case, it was the usage of improvised silencers in Season 3 of TWD. If TWD had featured Rick, Carl, and other characters all using improvised silencers made from common objects on firearms chambered in .22 LR, then I would not have taken an issue with this on technical grounds, because in real life, I know just how easy it is to make silencers such as these that will actually perform well shot after shot, and I know how readily available subsonic .22 LR ammunition is. (Almost every large and small business establishment that sells firearm ammunition now stocks it.) Even though silencers have been depicted inaccurately in popular entertainment for years, now that more Americans and other folks abroad legally own real silencers than ever before, and now that even more folks can go online to watch numerous videos which definitively demonstrate what silencers in real life are really like, I feel that the the makers of popular entertainment will be left with no choice but to rethink how they depict the capabilities of silencers in order to keep their audiences happy. Perhaps they already have - there used to be depictions of working silencers on revolvers in popular entertainment made prior to about 1980 or so. Being that it is nearly impossible to build silencers for revolvers that would be both effective and practical, except for the [[Nagant_M1895|Nagant M1895]] revolver, silencer-equipped revolvers are almost never seen in popular entertainment nowadays. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 07:41, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Yes, I know this is IMFDB, I am pretty knowledgeable in firearms and that is why I use this site. I don't see many pages picking apart silencer inaccuracies, because almost all movies and TV shows depict silencers are small tubes that can suppress anything. It is understood that Hollywood does this, therefore if you want to pick apart the inaccurate use of suppressors in every TV show and movie then you are going to need a few years. Or decades. Or lifespans. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:12, 9 November 2012 (EST)

== Warships at sea, Cheyenne Mountain, Diego Garcia, etc. ==
Do the comics ever elaborate on these and other secure or hard-to-access locations? Land bases like Fort Benning and Fort Bragg getting swamped with sick and wounded civilians that subsequently turn into walkers and overrun them is one thing, but I can't see aircraft carriers in the middle of the world's oceans, a fortified nuclear bunker with severely restricted access, or an isolated island base like DG, having big walker problems. I could conceivably see the government falling back to any such location and continuing to function, even if just to form a floating military nation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:46, 9 November 2012 (EST)
we still don't know anything about this virus that has infected the entire planet. It does seem that everyone, even the living are infected because once killed the normal way, they turn into one of the zombies. Perhaps more restricted places are secured. We still don't know how the virus was spread but if it is airborne, than no where is safe for long. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:51, 9 November 2012 (EST)

:: Everything exalilbur said plus there was never much of any one who confirmed any hope that hinted there was any goverment left on an island or underground it makes sense they ( the goverment ) wouldn't want it to be known they'd prob wanna keep it a secret wait until hopefully the zombies roamed to well they were immobile except the head or till they starved hopefully ( there was actually one hope there was a walker that rotted to the ground and was immobalized cept the head it was hinted this could happen to other walkers ) then they would try to rebuild wat twas lost i saw the walking dead wikia that in the twd world theres 1 human for every 5000 zombies maybe americas combined with the rest of the world and then average out because wit all our guns I'd think * knock on wood * there'd be more survivors with all ours guns gun stores and the guns that were the militarys ... --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 02:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:: I've read other zombie stories where they talk about warships at sea during a similar zombie outbreak. In the Day by day armeggeddon series by J L Bourne, the navy had a carrier group that was steaming off the coast launching raids on coastal facilities for supplies and rescue ops. But he also wrote about how an outbreak on a ship could quickly spread out of control due to the confined space. Also had a sub that had been undersea during the outbreak and remained submerged for as long as they could. A crew member died and stayed dead until the sub had to surface. And Max Brooks World War Z had the US gov't relocated to hawaii after the military cleared the islands [[user:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

I really believe that the climbing number of gun owners in America and how much ammo is bought at the civlian level might work towards making a zombie outbreak impossible or at least controllable. None of the zombie books including Brooks really touch on the American gun culture [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:03, 16 November 2012 (EST)

:I have watched some episodes of a reality show which has followed new episodes of TWD on the AMC Sunday night lineup. "Comic Book Men" is the show which I am referring to here. (No, I am not a fan of this show. How this show got renewed for a second season is beyond me, but apparently somebody at AMC decided to renew it.) I believe it was during an episode of this reality show during its first season when Ming, one of the comic book store employees, made a personal revelation about his greatest fear in life being the zombie apocalypse. Walt, another comic book store employee, then gave Ming a look of incredulity and said to him something like, "Dude, don't you realize how many guns there are in this country?" What Walt said there was one of the few things that I have ever liked about this "Comic Book Men" reality show. "Comic Book Men" is a reality show which takes place in the vehemently anti-gun state of New Jersey, where less than 10% of the population shoots and/or owns guns legally, and I would not at all be surprised if none of the stars of this reality show have ever actually owned or fired a real gun in their entire lives. Despite this, at least one of this show's stars, Walt, seemed to understand that a considerable gun culture truly does exist in most states outside of New Jersey. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

::As for Max Brooks, the author of several "zombie survival" books, the guy's Wikipedia page says that he was born in New York City and raised by Hollywood director Mel Brooks and Hollywood actress Anne Bancroft. Being raised in the insanely anti-gun environment of New York City by parents with Hollywood careers and presumably left-leaning and anti-gun viewpoints, and then growing up to become a "Saturday Night Live" comedy writer based in New York City, would lead me to believe that Max Brooks never got to learn much of anything about real-life gun ownership and marksmanship at any point in his life whatsoever. Assuming that this is the case, this would then also explain why Max Brooks, along with other zombie-genre authors and writers with similar non-gun-owning life histories to his own, all seem to have failed to account for the prevalence of the American gun culture in real life when they crafted their fictional tales of zombie outbreaks somehow being able to entirely overwhelm America, and the rest of this world even, to the point where a complete societal breakdown becomes the end result. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:::While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST)

I haven't read the Zombie Survival Guide, but I have read World War Z (which is fucking awesome). One of the survivors makes a point that panicked gun owners shooting other uninfected people actually caused more casualties during the opening stages of the infection ("The Great Panic" as it's called in the book) than the living dead. I'd say it's a fair point, which actually makes the "more guns for all" theory work against America in that context. - Phalanx

:Max Brooks is nothing but just another "limousine liberal" gun-hating libtard elitist who grew up in New York City and Hollywood with the figurative silver spoon in his mouth. I did my research on Max Brooks and I was not impressed. I read his Zombie Survival Guide too. I surely will never buy his World War Z book though. Eff him and that book, seriously. Max Brooks dissed the original M-16 rifle in his Zombie Survival Guide, but that was probably because he had read about the feed problems which the US Army had had with the M-16 rifle in Vietnam some 45+ years ago. If Max Brooks had ever tried joining the US Military sometime around 1990 or so when he had turned 18, then he would have known that the successor of the the original M-16 rifle from the Vietnam era was by then a markedly much better rifle, because he would likely have been issued the M-16A2 rifle at that time. Instead, Max Brooks went to a small liberal arts college in California that kicked the ROTC program off of campus in 1991, and has had outright Communists and radical leftists as commencement speakers all throughout the 2000's in addition to himself. For all we know, Max Brooks was probably all in favor of all of these policy decision at his Alma mater. It only figures that a typical gun-hater libtard like Max Brooks would put an anti-gun-owner jab into his World War Z book. Max Brooks also dissed TWD TV show simply because his friend was fired from it. To reiterate, eff Max Brooks and his books. I will also say the same about whatever movies he is associated with in the future. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 17:01, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Guys, there's a forum for this sort of thing, can we knock it off here? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:23, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:You mean there is a forum for discussion on how clueless Max Brooks is about firearms in general, even though he professes to know which firearms are the best for surviving a zombie apocalypse? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 18:27, 3 December 2012 (EST)

::What part of "knock it off" is complicated? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:29, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Boy, that escalated quickly. I make a chance remark about a novel and you go on a paranoid rant about "radical leftists" and "communists". Never mind that the reference in the book is from a chapter in which the US Military fights a pitched battle with the zombies and Brooks is broadly correct (if somewhat simplistic, but it's a zombie novel, not "Guns and Ammo") about a dozen weapons systems used by the US Armed Forces. Let's slam him for being, according to you, a "libtard" (because he went to a liberal college, shock horror. As opposed to all of those conservative colleges out there, oh wait). Never mind that the book is stuffed to the gills with soldiers behaving in exemplary ways and basically flat out says "the USA won in Afghanistan and Iraq but the public won't acknowledge it".
And frankly, while I'm not saying that every gun owner is a paranoid recluse who thinks the government is reading his thoughts and is ready to greet a Jehova's Witness knocking unexpectedly at his door with a blast of full-auto, to go the opposite and say that every gun owner is a saintly god of trigger discipline and restraint is equally biased. Just go on youtube and you'll find a host of tacticool retards showing off their new piece with fingers on the trigger, pointing it at themselves, et cetera. I've seen cops with appallingly bad drills. Hell, there's even that famous video of the cop doing a gun safety demonstration shooting himself. My point is, there's apparently 270,000,000 privately owned firearms in the US. That equates to what, a very, very conservative 27,000,000 people who own guns? If even a conservative one in 10,000 of said people is a dangerous idiot, or even just not equipped to deal with the stress of, oh, I dunno, THE END OF THE WORLD AND COMPLETE SOCIAL COLLAPSE, then you've still got 270,000+ instances of manslaughter. -Phalanx

To add to what Phalanx has to say, we'd also have to worry about less than honest people like the Governor and his band of misfits, Dave and Tony's group of bandit rapists, and possibly even rogue military and police elements. The living can be just as dangerous, if not more so than, the dead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:58, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Also God help your soul if you run into a group like The Hunters from the comics.....[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 21:36, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:Yeah, precisely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:20, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Guns in S03 E06 ==

One gun looks like a Walther P38.

Neil's gun (picked up by Merle after he kills him) looks like a Walther P9.

The other guy in Merle's party appears to have a Glock of some sort but isn't clear enough to be sure...90% certain of it though. Will upload screenshots later maybe.

Finally figured it out:

[[File:P38TWD.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

[[File:P9Merle.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

== Finally! Blanks! ==

In the episode "Made To Suffer"(This episode was F#$KING awesome) it appeared that many of the guns were shooting and cycling blanks. The first and most obvious one was the 870 used by Shupert, it looked like both Daryl's AKMS and Rick's M4A1 were cycling blanks at times, Maggie's P99 seemed to shoot blanks in one or two scenes, and many other random guns during the shootout in Woodbury.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:13, 3 December 2012 (EST)
:I'm not so sure they were actually cycling blanks all the time. The M4 looked like it was CGI muzzle flashes, there was a close shot of Daryl's AKMS that was cycling blanks but the wider shots looked more like CGI muzzle flashes. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 09:40, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== More rifles ==

Episode 8, saw a CX4 Storm and a 20 inch AR-15 series rifle with either a tan handguard or tape on it and what looked to be a cali style grip, either that or the actor was holding it strangely. Both in the background, but I'm positive it's an AR-15, but the CX4 could possibly be a dressed up Hi-Point. There were also 1 or 2 AK variants with wooden furniture, possibly Norincos, didn't see if the FSP was hooded or not (possibly a PolyTech), an AR-15 carbine with a rail system and a SOCOM stock as well as a full sized Uzi,a suppressed micro Uzi and what appears to be a Remington 870 with wooden furniture and several MP5Ks. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 16:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

*Minor Spoiler Alert* In the promo for the second half of season 3, the Governor (David Morrissey) can be seen firing what looks like a Steyr AUG (one handed no less). Renegadefunk44 20:41 December 3 2012 (EDT)
:That was definitely a Steyr AUG he was shooting, looked like an A1 model with the built in scope. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 09:42, 4 December 2012 (EST)
I think Daryl's gun might actually be a Type 56 this episode. If nothing else it is definitely a different gun to te previous AKMS as it has a different rail system. Also in some shots you can see that it has the wide front sight, and a couple of times it looked like it could have been hooded to me, but can't find a totally clear shot to confirm. When was the background possibly Cali AR-15, I can't find it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:14, 4 December 2012 (EST)

It was in the background of the Governor's speech at the end, around the same time the CX4 appeared. I think it's the same AKMS though, it looks like the same WASR, but could maybe be a Type 56 with a Tapco RIS [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 12:34, 4 December 2012 (EST)
:I am fairly sure it is a different gun to the WASR as it has the magazine well dimples and a rear sight rail. Also, there are either two different similar looking guns used in this episode or they changed the muzzle device as in some shots it is an AKM slant compensator, and in others it has a straight cylindrical (and it isn't that the cylindrical one is a BFA, as the slant one is seen in blank firing shots. The cylindrical muzzle can be seen when Glenn is handed the AKM (which I think is an editing mistake, as Daryl arrives and is reloading the AKM, next shot Glenn has it, then Daryl has it back before handing it to Glenn before he throws the grenade). Also, I think the RIS matches [http://www.gamepod.com/ak47-full-ris-p-174.html this] airsoft one (don't know if this is based on a real accessory or is airsoft only). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:07, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Pump action sound effect on double barrel shotgun ==

In episode seven, when the hermit aims his break open shotgun at Rick, it sounded like the generic sound effect of a pump action was used, despite not being a pump action.
[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 0:21 4 December 2012 (EST)

==Shane's Shotgun==
Anybody catch what type of shotgun the resident of Woodbury mistaken for Shane was carrying? --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 13:13, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Judging by the ones earlier, I think it was an 870 [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 17:34, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:The Walking Dead - Season 3

2012-12-04T17:34:25Z

Recon42: /* More rifles */

==Season 3 Webisodes "Cold Storage"==
'''The following weapons were used in the 4-part webisode series entitled "Cold Storage":'''

===M16A1===
B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2. Chase is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.
[[Image:M16A1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A1 with 20 round magazine - 5.56x45mm. What distinguishes it from the original M16 was the addition of a raised rib around the magazine release button, changing of the forward Receiver pins, and the addition of the forward assist button on the upper receiver.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS02 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS04 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]) is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.]]

===Smith & Wesson Model 29===
B.J. also carries a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] as his sidearm.
[[Image:Smith&WessonModel29.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 Magnum.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

===AKMS===
An [[AKMS]]-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.
[[File:AKMS.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03_01.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

==Additional Screenshots==
[[Image:Walking dead ak.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Carol Peletier ([[Melissa McBride]]) fires the rifle from a watchtower in "Seed" (S3E01).]]
When did Carol get that gun? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:37, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
:I was wondering that too. One of the plausible explanations is that they grabbed it when raiding houses at the beginning of Season 3. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] ([[User talk:AdAstra2009|talk]]) 00:06, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

[[Image:M4_walking_dead_2.JPG|thumb|none|500px|In "Walk with Me" (S3E03), Soldier 2]]
Same thing with the M4A1. They didn't have it at the end of Season 2, so they most likely grabbed it when raiding houses. Same could probably be said for the Vektor CP1 as well. -- [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk: Antediluvial|talk]]) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:I would agree that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock, along with other guns which we have seen lately on TWD, were all likely acquired as a result of the group's scavenging efforts in private homes after they fled Hershel's farm at the end of Season 2. Rick probably decided to have his group rummage through a storage locker rental facility or two. Plus, Carl did briefly mention something about the group's previous living situation at a storage locker facility during the first episode of Season 3. (Watch TWD's "Cold Storage" webisodes if you have not yet.) Even though most real-life storage facility's rules prohibit the practice, there have been enough people who have kept their firearms and ammunition in their rented storage lockers anyway. A zombie apocalypse would not change this, which in turn could be beneficial to survivors in the know about such things. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::TWD is set in Georgia. As I have posited in a previous IMFDB forum post, Georgia in real life is a pro-gun "red" state that is simply chock-full of guns and gun owners, and not just the "Elmer Fudd" types of long guns normally used for hunting, either. This is especially true in the rural areas of Georgia. Even the Walmart stores there carry Colt AR-15's and Ruger Mini-14's. Despite all of this, the "Elmer Fudd" types of long hunting guns were all that there seemed to be available to Rick's group during Season 1 and 2 of TWD as they stayed in the greater Atlanta area. Some members of the group seemed to be rather anti-gun, too, but now it seems that such attitudes towards guns, along with the group's apparent lack of tactical firepower, is all going to become a distant memory as Season 3 unfolds. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

:::In Kennesaw,Ga there is actually a law that you have to own a gun there.

I own a WASR-10 myself, which a semi-automatic-only version of the AKMS rifle made from a combination of Romanian and American parts for legal reasons. My WASR-10 had solid wood furniture and a non-folding stock when it was shipped to the dealer from Century International Arms. I have not yet seen any of the WASR-10 series come from the factory with a tactical handguard with rails on it. A handguard such as this is what appears to be on Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Also, the sling on her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock appears to be one made for the Mosin Nagant type rifles, rather than one made for the AK/SKS rifle types. (I could see the “dog collar-style” leather attachment straps on this sling in one of the still frame shots of Carol holding her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Only the Mosin Nagant slings have those.) Being that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock was tricked out like this when we first saw her firing it, this would lead me to believe that this gun was formerly a part of some local resident's private gun collection or whatever. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 15:49, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Anybody notice that Carol had to manually cycle the action of the WASR she was using after taking the first shot?

:I would guess that Carol had to manually cycle the action because no BFA (blank firing adapter) was apparently on her rifle at the time. The most commonly found BFA for the AK-47 looks something like a shiny lug nut. (I own a few of these myself.) A BFA such as this would have really stood out in this scene if this was the only BFA available to the show's armorers at the time of production, so perhaps a decision was made to make do without a BFA on this rifle. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::OK, I'm getting a little bit annoyed with people calling any AKMS that lacks the indentations above the magazine a "WASR-10". We don't know for sure that that's what it is, and there are a lot of rifles in Hollywood that are "Franken-guns" built up from parts of multiple weapons. This weapon is more accurately described as an "AKMS" or AKMS-type rifle. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 15:28, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== Questionable Production Values ==

Am I the only one who was just laughing their ass off at the low production values of the shootout in the prison yard? No cycling actions, no recoil, no muzzle smoke, it's un-freaking-believable. If you don't want to have to train all the actors with firearms and just CG it for time's sake, fine; but if preteens on YouTube can do a better job with VFX for free, AMC has no viable excuse for that crap. Come on, AMC...
:The budget was slashed after the first season, with some saying it was cut by 20%. (And please sign your posts.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 21:51, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
::The budget is small enough as is, I can imagine the special effects (ie makeup and the like) and locations and all that take up the majority of the budget, then they have the actors. I didn't really mind the courtyard shootout that much.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
::I'm sure alot of that could be chalked up to the safety of the actors/extras, too. If I remember right, the fight was pretty close in.
:Yeah, to be honest I noticed that, too. Even Lori's Colt DS is being mime-fired. The LEAST they could have done is loaded it with dummy rounds and had her pull the trigger so the cylinder would spin. That looked like total garbage and even I noticed.- [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 03:05, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== WASR Rails ==
I think the handguard of Carol's WASR is [http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AKS-103 this model] made by UTG. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 04:13, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

== CGI muzzle flashes? ==

I'm watching the Third Season Premier on AMC's website, and I think they're using CGI flashes on the pistols while they're clearing the prison. The pistols clearly aren't cycling and no brass is being ejected. --BigD, October 21, 8:43 AM
:Yup they were, could have been due to safety as it was really obvious when Carl was shooting, however it could also be down to the severely reduced budget since the first season. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 16:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

== several soldiers had M4A1's ==

Several soldiers ambushed by the Governor and some " self trained soldiers " from woodbury the soldiers had m4a1's. the Governor Got a hold of one I think I may have seen and LMG M60 maybe m249 saw with the soldiers and an mp5k with a woodbury " soldier ". --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 00:57, 29 October 2012 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure the M4 the governor picks up after the ambush is the one that merle used to shot the zombie over the gate, without the suppressor, and the scope has been taken of but no one bothered to put a rear sight back on, if you look at the pictures they both have the same cloth wrap over the foreguard

==The Governor's Pistol==
The Governor ([[David Morrissey]]) carries a [[Beretta 92FS Inox]] as his personal sidearm. He also has a Kabar 1221 knife on his right hip, for anyone who may be interested. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 07:38, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: Hi-res pics [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-david-morrissey-governor-303.jpg here] and [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-governor-episode-303.jpg here] that show off the Beretta logo on the grip. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 04:05, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

== The Usage of Silencers in Season 3 ==

Much unlike the comic book version of TWD, which is now beyond 100 issues at the time of this writing, the TV version of TWD has depicted the usage of silencers from the very first episode of Season 3 and beyond. I was quite pleased to see this development in the TV version, yet there are other aspects of their depiction that I have found to be just a bit unrealistic. I feel this way because I have had some experience with silencers in real life, so I know a bit about what they can and cannot do.

First of all, when it comes to these improvised silencers made from common objects (flashlight tubes, aluminum baseball bats, etc.) as we have seen so far in the TV version of TWD, it is not really all that easy to make one for a gun that is chambered for ammunition that is more powerful than the .22 LR cartridge. Even then, such a project can still be a challenge. It all depends on the gun which the silencer is being made for. (Living in the post-apocalyptic world of TWD would very likely not make the job of building a decent improvised silencer any easier.)

Secondly, for any silencer to really be worthwhile, the ammunition fired through it must be subsonic. There will be a loud sonic "crack" otherwise every time the gun is discharged. The 9mm cartridge is typically ''not'' subsonic. Most gun shops that I have been to typically do not stock subsonic 9mm ammunition. The only dealers that I have seen carrying it are the online retailers. Despite all this, we have seen Rick and Carl firing their 9mm Glock and Beretta pistols fitted with improvised silencers that seem to work quite well. It would have been a bit more realistic to see them firing silenced .45 ACP pistols actually, since the .45 ACP cartridge is typically subsonic in the first place. The same goes for the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Remington cartridge - they are typically ''not'' subsonic, and subsonic variants of this ammunition are also not widely available. Yet we have also seen at least one silenced M4 rifle, presumably chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington, being fired by Merle at some zombies on the perimeter of Woodbury. That being said, we would have to assume that the characters of TWD have all figured out that subsonic ammunition is essential for silenced shooting, and that they have all been able to acquire said subsonic ammunition since the onset of the zombie apocalypse. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 11:10, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:You are making a lot of assumptions and claims for a show that can't even hire an armorer or get blank fire guns. Firstly, improvised suppressors are not all that difficult to manufacture. It can be done with freeze plugs and steel pipe (though it may not last long). The problem is getting your weapon to function and cycle properly with one. Secondly, the vast majority of 147gr 9x19 loads are subsonic, you do not need special subsonic 9mm to run through a can, any 147gr ball or JHP will be fine. Subsonic ammo is not essential, and in some cases, not even recommended, as it won't reliably cycle the action in some gas operated weapons like an AR. A suppressor is just as important, if not more, for saving your own hearing than preventing others from hearing. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::If improvised silencers were really ''that'' easy to make for just any gun, and assuming that they all worked really well too, then just about every hardcore thug, gangbanger, street-level drug dealer, and bad guy in real life would have at least one or two silenced guns, but this is simply not reality. None of the LEO's whom I know in real life and have spoken with on this subject have been able to tell me about themselves encountering much of any improvised silencers in the possession of criminal suspects during their careers. For some guns out there, yes, it is rather easy to make a decent silencer for them on the fly out of various common objects and without having access to all that many tools. One such gun is the .22LR [[Ruger_Mk_I_/_Mk_II_/_Mk_III_Pistol|Ruger Mk I / Mk II / Mk III Pistol]] series. I have seen silencers made for that gun from drink bottles, PVC pipe, tractor mufflers, oil filters, and even more odd things than I could even list here. In the post-apocalyptic world of TWD however, I submit that it would actually be quite tricky to make an improvised silencer on the fly that also actually works well for a [[Glock_17#Glock_17|Glock 17]] or a [[Beretta_92FS#Beretta_92F.2FFS|Beretta 92FS]] like we have seen on this show's Season 3. Such a silencer would have to be attached firmly enough to the muzzle without flying downrange after the first or second shot, plus, the internal baffles, wipes, or whatever the design utilizes would also have to remain in alignment with the bore from one shot to the next. To accomplish this, it would most likely require swapping out the factory barrel with an extended barrel which also has external threading. I have not yet seen any depictions or explanation on this show about where and how Rick's group would have been able to make or acquire threaded barrels for any gun. For me, it would have been much more realistic if TWD had featured a scene, or at least made a mention, of Rick's group raiding a Class III licensed gun dealer's shop (There are quite a few such gun shops in Georgia, by the way, which is where TWD is supposedly taking place.) that had some professionally silenced guns, made with machine tools, which had been locked away in some gun safes that had not been breached yet by previous scavengers.

::Maybe it's just me, but most of the 9mm Luger ammunition that I have ever seen on the store shelves out there (Walmart, Kmart, smaller gun shops, etc.) is either 115 gr or 124 gr, and both of these are typically hypersonic, since their muzzle velocities are either slightly or greatly above the sound barrier of 1129 fps. What I usually do not see much of on most store shelves are those 9mm Luger 147 gr rounds, which are typically subsonic. (It seems that the heavier bullet weight is what makes the round subsonic by fault rather than design.)
:::I'll second this. I live in Texas(another very pro-gun state), and I shoot as well. At commercial retailer type stores like Walmart, you won't find sub-sonic 9mm ammo. Even a lot of gun retailers/shooting ranges don't carry it. That said, it's entertainment, for better or worse, you can't expect a ton of realism. Just like you may have to accept that some "elite special forces" guy is going to rush into a combat zone dual wielding a pair of .50 cal Desert Eagle or something in action movies, you just have to accept that the characters here have "silencers" that make guns really really quiet, and not dwell on the lack of realism in either situation. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] ([[User talk:DKS01|talk]]) 02:42, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::I have yet to ever hear anybody in the legitimate business of making or selling ATF-registered silencers recommend against using subsonic ammunition with any silencer. If an AR-type rifle is configured as a sniping system with a bipod, telescopic sights, and a silencer, then it would not really be such a big deal to me if the subsonic ammunition being fired through it failed to cycle the action. The shooter would just have to cycle the action manually after each shot. Besides, "One shot, one kill" is the sniper's motto anyway, right?

::Since the whole point of using a silencer in a zombie-apocalyptic world as depicted in TWD would be the desire to quietly kill a zombie without attracting any other zombies in the far-away distance to your location, to use anything other than subsonic ammunition would be somewhat self-defeating as far as I am concerned. The sonic "crack" that hypersonic ammunition makes when fired through even the best of silencer designs can actually be quite conspicuous downrange. I got to hear the difference for myself between subsonic and hypersonic ammunition being fired through various silencers during a Class III weapons demonstration at a target range once. Being that a 62 gr, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 round has a muzzle velocity of over 3,000 fps, the sonic "crack" made by this round after passing through any silencer simply has to be quite considerable. So, when I saw Merle firing a silenced M4 in S3E03 and heard how relatively quiet the discharge sounded, I could not help but wonder how unrealistic that seemed if we are to also assume that this M4 was also loaded with standard, military-issue, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 ammunition. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 00:58, 6 November 2012 (EST)

:::You are forgetting one thing. This is a TV show. They don't need to use actual practical silencers on the guns, they can stick whatever they want onto the barrel and sound FX takes care of the rest. You say that we are to assume that they are using subsonic ammo in their handguns. In reality, however, we don't. If you have seen any movie featuring suppressors, most are just cylinders slipped onto the barrels, not real suppressors. We aren't supposed to assume they are using subsonic ammo, we are supposed to assume that the director wants this pistol to be suppressed, so it will sound suppressed under any circumstances. You are reading way too much into something that has been happening in movies and TV for years. Also, it would have been a huge takeaway from the storytelling, if the characters just all of a sudden went into extensive detail into how they affectively suppressed their weapons and it is much easier just to show the audience, "This is a suppressor, it makes the gun quieter," and not adding on, "But it will only be silenced under extensive conditions." --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:17, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::::Yes, of course TWD is a TV show, but this is IMFDb, where we, the contributors to IMFDb, work to identify the firearms and other weapons used in live action TV show dramas and other genres of popular entertainment. IMFDb contributors also discuss gun-related issues pertinent to the depiction of guns in popular entertainment. Being that many of us IMFDb contributors are rather knowledgeable about guns in real life, sometimes one or more of us will take issue with the depiction of guns in popular entertainment on technical grounds that others will likely not even notice or care about. For me in this case, it was the usage of improvised silencers in Season 3 of TWD. If TWD had featured Rick, Carl, and other characters all using improvised silencers made from common objects on firearms chambered in .22 LR, then I would not have taken an issue with this on technical grounds, because in real life, I know just how easy it is to make silencers such as these that will actually perform well shot after shot, and I know how readily available subsonic .22 LR ammunition is. (Almost every large and small business establishment that sells firearm ammunition now stocks it.) Even though silencers have been depicted inaccurately in popular entertainment for years, now that more Americans and other folks abroad legally own real silencers than ever before, and now that even more folks can go online to watch numerous videos which definitively demonstrate what silencers in real life are really like, I feel that the the makers of popular entertainment will be left with no choice but to rethink how they depict the capabilities of silencers in order to keep their audiences happy. Perhaps they already have - there used to be depictions of working silencers on revolvers in popular entertainment made prior to about 1980 or so. Being that it is nearly impossible to build silencers for revolvers that would be both effective and practical, except for the [[Nagant_M1895|Nagant M1895]] revolver, silencer-equipped revolvers are almost never seen in popular entertainment nowadays. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 07:41, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Yes, I know this is IMFDB, I am pretty knowledgeable in firearms and that is why I use this site. I don't see many pages picking apart silencer inaccuracies, because almost all movies and TV shows depict silencers are small tubes that can suppress anything. It is understood that Hollywood does this, therefore if you want to pick apart the inaccurate use of suppressors in every TV show and movie then you are going to need a few years. Or decades. Or lifespans. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:12, 9 November 2012 (EST)

== Warships at sea, Cheyenne Mountain, Diego Garcia, etc. ==
Do the comics ever elaborate on these and other secure or hard-to-access locations? Land bases like Fort Benning and Fort Bragg getting swamped with sick and wounded civilians that subsequently turn into walkers and overrun them is one thing, but I can't see aircraft carriers in the middle of the world's oceans, a fortified nuclear bunker with severely restricted access, or an isolated island base like DG, having big walker problems. I could conceivably see the government falling back to any such location and continuing to function, even if just to form a floating military nation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:46, 9 November 2012 (EST)
we still don't know anything about this virus that has infected the entire planet. It does seem that everyone, even the living are infected because once killed the normal way, they turn into one of the zombies. Perhaps more restricted places are secured. We still don't know how the virus was spread but if it is airborne, than no where is safe for long. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:51, 9 November 2012 (EST)

:: Everything exalilbur said plus there was never much of any one who confirmed any hope that hinted there was any goverment left on an island or underground it makes sense they ( the goverment ) wouldn't want it to be known they'd prob wanna keep it a secret wait until hopefully the zombies roamed to well they were immobile except the head or till they starved hopefully ( there was actually one hope there was a walker that rotted to the ground and was immobalized cept the head it was hinted this could happen to other walkers ) then they would try to rebuild wat twas lost i saw the walking dead wikia that in the twd world theres 1 human for every 5000 zombies maybe americas combined with the rest of the world and then average out because wit all our guns I'd think * knock on wood * there'd be more survivors with all ours guns gun stores and the guns that were the militarys ... --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 02:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:: I've read other zombie stories where they talk about warships at sea during a similar zombie outbreak. In the Day by day armeggeddon series by J L Bourne, the navy had a carrier group that was steaming off the coast launching raids on coastal facilities for supplies and rescue ops. But he also wrote about how an outbreak on a ship could quickly spread out of control due to the confined space. Also had a sub that had been undersea during the outbreak and remained submerged for as long as they could. A crew member died and stayed dead until the sub had to surface. And Max Brooks World War Z had the US gov't relocated to hawaii after the military cleared the islands [[user:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

I really believe that the climbing number of gun owners in America and how much ammo is bought at the civlian level might work towards making a zombie outbreak impossible or at least controllable. None of the zombie books including Brooks really touch on the American gun culture [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:03, 16 November 2012 (EST)

:I have watched some episodes of a reality show which has followed new episodes of TWD on the AMC Sunday night lineup. "Comic Book Men" is the show which I am referring to here. (No, I am not a fan of this show. How this show got renewed for a second season is beyond me, but apparently somebody at AMC decided to renew it.) I believe it was during an episode of this reality show during its first season when Ming, one of the comic book store employees, made a personal revelation about his greatest fear in life being the zombie apocalypse. Walt, another comic book store employee, then gave Ming a look of incredulity and said to him something like, "Dude, don't you realize how many guns there are in this country?" What Walt said there was one of the few things that I have ever liked about this "Comic Book Men" reality show. "Comic Book Men" is a reality show which takes place in the vehemently anti-gun state of New Jersey, where less than 10% of the population shoots and/or owns guns legally, and I would not at all be surprised if none of the stars of this reality show have ever actually owned or fired a real gun in their entire lives. Despite this, at least one of this show's stars, Walt, seemed to understand that a considerable gun culture truly does exist in most states outside of New Jersey. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

::As for Max Brooks, the author of several "zombie survival" books, the guy's Wikipedia page says that he was born in New York City and raised by Hollywood director Mel Brooks and Hollywood actress Anne Bancroft. Being raised in the insanely anti-gun environment of New York City by parents with Hollywood careers and presumably left-leaning and anti-gun viewpoints, and then growing up to become a "Saturday Night Live" comedy writer based in New York City, would lead me to believe that Max Brooks never got to learn much of anything about real-life gun ownership and marksmanship at any point in his life whatsoever. Assuming that this is the case, this would then also explain why Max Brooks, along with other zombie-genre authors and writers with similar non-gun-owning life histories to his own, all seem to have failed to account for the prevalence of the American gun culture in real life when they crafted their fictional tales of zombie outbreaks somehow being able to entirely overwhelm America, and the rest of this world even, to the point where a complete societal breakdown becomes the end result. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:::While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST)

I haven't read the Zombie Survival Guide, but I have read World War Z (which is fucking awesome). One of the survivors makes a point that panicked gun owners shooting other uninfected people actually caused more casualties during the opening stages of the infection ("The Great Panic" as it's called in the book) than the living dead. I'd say it's a fair point, which actually makes the "more guns for all" theory work against America in that context. - Phalanx

:Max Brooks is nothing but just another "limousine liberal" gun-hating libtard elitist who grew up in New York City and Hollywood with the figurative silver spoon in his mouth. I did my research on Max Brooks and I was not impressed. I read his Zombie Survival Guide too. I surely will never buy his World War Z book though. Eff him and that book, seriously. Max Brooks dissed the original M-16 rifle in his Zombie Survival Guide, but that was probably because he had read about the feed problems which the US Army had had with the M-16 rifle in Vietnam some 45+ years ago. If Max Brooks had ever tried joining the US Military sometime around 1990 or so when he had turned 18, then he would have known that the successor of the the original M-16 rifle from the Vietnam era was by then a markedly much better rifle, because he would likely have been issued the M-16A2 rifle at that time. Instead, Max Brooks went to a small liberal arts college in California that kicked the ROTC program off of campus in 1991, and has had outright Communists and radical leftists as commencement speakers all throughout the 2000's in addition to himself. For all we know, Max Brooks was probably all in favor of all of these policy decision at his Alma mater. It only figures that a typical gun-hater libtard like Max Brooks would put an anti-gun-owner jab into his World War Z book. Max Brooks also dissed TWD TV show simply because his friend was fired from it. To reiterate, eff Max Brooks and his books. I will also say the same about whatever movies he is associated with in the future. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 17:01, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Guys, there's a forum for this sort of thing, can we knock it off here? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:23, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:You mean there is a forum for discussion on how clueless Max Brooks is about firearms in general, even though he professes to know which firearms are the best for surviving a zombie apocalypse? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 18:27, 3 December 2012 (EST)

::What part of "knock it off" is complicated? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 18:29, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Boy, that escalated quickly. I make a chance remark about a novel and you go on a paranoid rant about "radical leftists" and "communists". Never mind that the reference in the book is from a chapter in which the US Military fights a pitched battle with the zombies and Brooks is broadly correct (if somewhat simplistic, but it's a zombie novel, not "Guns and Ammo") about a dozen weapons systems used by the US Armed Forces. Let's slam him for being, according to you, a "libtard" (because he went to a liberal college, shock horror. As opposed to all of those conservative colleges out there, oh wait). Never mind that the book is stuffed to the gills with soldiers behaving in exemplary ways and basically flat out says "the USA won in Afghanistan and Iraq but the public won't acknowledge it".
And frankly, while I'm not saying that every gun owner is a paranoid recluse who thinks the government is reading his thoughts and is ready to greet a Jehova's Witness knocking unexpectedly at his door with a blast of full-auto, to go the opposite and say that every gun owner is a saintly god of trigger discipline and restraint is equally biased. Just go on youtube and you'll find a host of tacticool retards showing off their new piece with fingers on the trigger, pointing it at themselves, et cetera. I've seen cops with appallingly bad drills. Hell, there's even that famous video of the cop doing a gun safety demonstration shooting himself. My point is, there's apparently 270,000,000 privately owned firearms in the US. That equates to what, a very, very conservative 27,000,000 people who own guns? If even a conservative one in 10,000 of said people is a dangerous idiot, or even just not equipped to deal with the stress of, oh, I dunno, THE END OF THE WORLD AND COMPLETE SOCIAL COLLAPSE, then you've still got 270,000+ instances of manslaughter. -Phalanx

To add to what Phalanx has to say, we'd also have to worry about less than honest people like the Governor and his band of misfits, Dave and Tony's group of bandit rapists, and possibly even rogue military and police elements. The living can be just as dangerous, if not more so than, the dead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:58, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Also God help your soul if you run into a group like The Hunters from the comics.....[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 21:36, 3 December 2012 (EST)

:Yeah, precisely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:20, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Guns in S03 E06 ==

One gun looks like a Walther P38.

Neil's gun (picked up by Merle after he kills him) looks like a Walther P9.

The other guy in Merle's party appears to have a Glock of some sort but isn't clear enough to be sure...90% certain of it though. Will upload screenshots later maybe.

Finally figured it out:

[[File:P38TWD.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

[[File:P9Merle.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

== Finally! Blanks! ==

In the episode "Made To Suffer"(This episode was F#$KING awesome) it appeared that many of the guns were shooting and cycling blanks. The first and most obvious one was the 870 used by Shupert, it looked like both Daryl's AKMS and Rick's M4A1 were cycling blanks at times, Maggie's P99 seemed to shoot blanks in one or two scenes, and many other random guns during the shootout in Woodbury.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:13, 3 December 2012 (EST)
:I'm not so sure they were actually cycling blanks all the time. The M4 looked like it was CGI muzzle flashes, there was a close shot of Daryl's AKMS that was cycling blanks but the wider shots looked more like CGI muzzle flashes. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 09:40, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== More rifles ==

Episode 8, saw a CX4 Storm and a 20 inch AR-15 series rifle with either a tan handguard or tape on it and what looked to be a cali style grip, either that or the actor was holding it strangely. Both in the background, but I'm positive it's an AR-15, but the CX4 could possibly be a dressed up Hi-Point. There were also 1 or 2 AK variants with wooden furniture, possibly Norincos, didn't see if the FSP was hooded or not (possibly a PolyTech), an AR-15 carbine with a rail system and a SOCOM stock as well as a full sized Uzi,a suppressed micro Uzi and what appears to be a Remington 870 with wooden furniture and several MP5Ks. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 16:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

*Minor Spoiler Alert* In the promo for the second half of season 3, the Governor (David Morrissey) can be seen firing what looks like a Steyr AUG (one handed no less). Renegadefunk44 20:41 December 3 2012 (EDT)
:That was definitely a Steyr AUG he was shooting, looked like an A1 model with the built in scope. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 09:42, 4 December 2012 (EST)
I think Daryl's gun might actually be a Type 56 this episode. If nothing else it is definitely a different gun to te previous AKMS as it has a different rail system. Also in some shots you can see that it has the wide front sight, and a couple of times it looked like it could have been hooded to me, but can't find a totally clear shot to confirm. When was the background possibly Cali AR-15, I can't find it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:14, 4 December 2012 (EST)

It was in the background of the Governor's speech at the end, around the same time the CX4 appeared. I think it's the same AKMS though, it looks like the same WASR, but could maybe be a Type 56 with a Tapco RIS [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 12:34, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Pump action sound effect on double barrel shotgun ==

In episode seven, when the hermit aims his break open shotgun at Rick, it sounded like the generic sound effect of a pump action was used, despite not being a pump action.
[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 0:21 4 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:The Walking Dead - Season 3

2012-12-03T22:01:38Z

Recon42: /* More rifles */

==Season 3 Webisodes "Cold Storage"==
'''The following weapons were used in the 4-part webisode series entitled "Cold Storage":'''

===M16A1===
B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2. Chase is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.
[[Image:M16A1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A1 with 20 round magazine - 5.56x45mm. What distinguishes it from the original M16 was the addition of a raised rib around the magazine release button, changing of the forward Receiver pins, and the addition of the forward assist button on the upper receiver.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS02 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS04 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]) is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.]]

===Smith & Wesson Model 29===
B.J. also carries a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] as his sidearm.
[[Image:Smith&WessonModel29.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 Magnum.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

===AKMS===
An [[AKMS]]-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.
[[File:AKMS.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03_01.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

==Additional Screenshots==
[[Image:Walking dead ak.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Carol Peletier ([[Melissa McBride]]) fires the rifle from a watchtower in "Seed" (S3E01).]]
When did Carol get that gun? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:37, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
:I was wondering that too. One of the plausible explanations is that they grabbed it when raiding houses at the beginning of Season 3. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] ([[User talk:AdAstra2009|talk]]) 00:06, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

[[Image:M4_walking_dead_2.JPG|thumb|none|500px|In "Walk with Me" (S3E03), Soldier 2]]
Same thing with the M4A1. They didn't have it at the end of Season 2, so they most likely grabbed it when raiding houses. Same could probably be said for the Vektor CP1 as well. -- [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk: Antediluvial|talk]]) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:I would agree that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock, along with other guns which we have seen lately on TWD, were all likely acquired as a result of the group's scavenging efforts in private homes after they fled Hershel's farm at the end of Season 2. Rick probably decided to have his group rummage through a storage locker rental facility or two. Plus, Carl did briefly mention something about the group's previous living situation at a storage locker facility during the first episode of Season 3. (Watch TWD's "Cold Storage" webisodes if you have not yet.) Even though most real-life storage facility's rules prohibit the practice, there have been enough people who have kept their firearms and ammunition in their rented storage lockers anyway. A zombie apocalypse would not change this, which in turn could be beneficial to survivors in the know about such things. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::TWD is set in Georgia. As I have posited in a previous IMFDB forum post, Georgia in real life is a pro-gun "red" state that is simply chock-full of guns and gun owners, and not just the "Elmer Fudd" types of long guns normally used for hunting, either. This is especially true in the rural areas of Georgia. Even the Walmart stores there carry Colt AR-15's and Ruger Mini-14's. Despite all of this, the "Elmer Fudd" types of long hunting guns were all that there seemed to be available to Rick's group during Season 1 and 2 of TWD as they stayed in the greater Atlanta area. Some members of the group seemed to be rather anti-gun, too, but now it seems that such attitudes towards guns, along with the group's apparent lack of tactical firepower, is all going to become a distant memory as Season 3 unfolds. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

:::In Kennesaw,Ga there is actually a law that you have to own a gun there.

I own a WASR-10 myself, which a semi-automatic-only version of the AKMS rifle made from a combination of Romanian and American parts for legal reasons. My WASR-10 had solid wood furniture and a non-folding stock when it was shipped to the dealer from Century International Arms. I have not yet seen any of the WASR-10 series come from the factory with a tactical handguard with rails on it. A handguard such as this is what appears to be on Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Also, the sling on her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock appears to be one made for the Mosin Nagant type rifles, rather than one made for the AK/SKS rifle types. (I could see the “dog collar-style” leather attachment straps on this sling in one of the still frame shots of Carol holding her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Only the Mosin Nagant slings have those.) Being that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock was tricked out like this when we first saw her firing it, this would lead me to believe that this gun was formerly a part of some local resident's private gun collection or whatever. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 15:49, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Anybody notice that Carol had to manually cycle the action of the WASR she was using after taking the first shot?

:I would guess that Carol had to manually cycle the action because no BFA (blank firing adapter) was apparently on her rifle at the time. The most commonly found BFA for the AK-47 looks something like a shiny lug nut. (I own a few of these myself.) A BFA such as this would have really stood out in this scene if this was the only BFA available to the show's armorers at the time of production, so perhaps a decision was made to make do without a BFA on this rifle. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::OK, I'm getting a little bit annoyed with people calling any AKMS that lacks the indentations above the magazine a "WASR-10". We don't know for sure that that's what it is, and there are a lot of rifles in Hollywood that are "Franken-guns" built up from parts of multiple weapons. This weapon is more accurately described as an "AKMS" or AKMS-type rifle. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 15:28, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== Questionable Production Values ==

Am I the only one who was just laughing their ass off at the low production values of the shootout in the prison yard? No cycling actions, no recoil, no muzzle smoke, it's un-freaking-believable. If you don't want to have to train all the actors with firearms and just CG it for time's sake, fine; but if preteens on YouTube can do a better job with VFX for free, AMC has no viable excuse for that crap. Come on, AMC...
:The budget was slashed after the first season, with some saying it was cut by 20%. (And please sign your posts.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 21:51, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
::The budget is small enough as is, I can imagine the special effects (ie makeup and the like) and locations and all that take up the majority of the budget, then they have the actors. I didn't really mind the courtyard shootout that much.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
::I'm sure alot of that could be chalked up to the safety of the actors/extras, too. If I remember right, the fight was pretty close in.
:Yeah, to be honest I noticed that, too. Even Lori's Colt DS is being mime-fired. The LEAST they could have done is loaded it with dummy rounds and had her pull the trigger so the cylinder would spin. That looked like total garbage and even I noticed.- [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 03:05, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== WASR Rails ==
I think the handguard of Carol's WASR is [http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AKS-103 this model] made by UTG. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 04:13, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

== CGI muzzle flashes? ==

I'm watching the Third Season Premier on AMC's website, and I think they're using CGI flashes on the pistols while they're clearing the prison. The pistols clearly aren't cycling and no brass is being ejected. --BigD, October 21, 8:43 AM
:Yup they were, could have been due to safety as it was really obvious when Carl was shooting, however it could also be down to the severely reduced budget since the first season. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 16:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

== several soldiers had M4A1's ==

Several soldiers ambushed by the Governor and some " self trained soldiers " from woodbury the soldiers had m4a1's. the Governor Got a hold of one I think I may have seen and LMG M60 maybe m249 saw with the soldiers and an mp5k with a woodbury " soldier ". --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 00:57, 29 October 2012 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure the M4 the governor picks up after the ambush is the one that merle used to shot the zombie over the gate, without the suppressor, and the scope has been taken of but no one bothered to put a rear sight back on, if you look at the pictures they both have the same cloth wrap over the foreguard

==The Governor's Pistol==
The Governor ([[David Morrissey]]) carries a [[Beretta 92FS Inox]] as his personal sidearm. He also has a Kabar 1221 knife on his right hip, for anyone who may be interested. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 07:38, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: Hi-res pics [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-david-morrissey-governor-303.jpg here] and [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-governor-episode-303.jpg here] that show off the Beretta logo on the grip. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 04:05, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

== The Usage of Silencers in Season 3 ==

Much unlike the comic book version of TWD, which is now beyond 100 issues at the time of this writing, the TV version of TWD has depicted the usage of silencers from the very first episode of Season 3 and beyond. I was quite pleased to see this development in the TV version, yet there are other aspects of their depiction that I have found to be just a bit unrealistic. I feel this way because I have had some experience with silencers in real life, so I know a bit about what they can and cannot do.

First of all, when it comes to these improvised silencers made from common objects (flashlight tubes, aluminum baseball bats, etc.) as we have seen so far in the TV version of TWD, it is not really all that easy to make one for a gun that is chambered for ammunition that is more powerful than the .22 LR cartridge. Even then, such a project can still be a challenge. It all depends on the gun which the silencer is being made for. (Living in the post-apocalyptic world of TWD would very likely not make the job of building a decent improvised silencer any easier.)

Secondly, for any silencer to really be worthwhile, the ammunition fired through it must be subsonic. There will be a loud sonic "crack" otherwise every time the gun is discharged. The 9mm cartridge is typically ''not'' subsonic. Most gun shops that I have been to typically do not stock subsonic 9mm ammunition. The only dealers that I have seen carrying it are the online retailers. Despite all this, we have seen Rick and Carl firing their 9mm Glock and Beretta pistols fitted with improvised silencers that seem to work quite well. It would have been a bit more realistic to see them firing silenced .45 ACP pistols actually, since the .45 ACP cartridge is typically subsonic in the first place. The same goes for the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Remington cartridge - they are typically ''not'' subsonic, and subsonic variants of this ammunition are also not widely available. Yet we have also seen at least one silenced M4 rifle, presumably chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington, being fired by Merle at some zombies on the perimeter of Woodbury. That being said, we would have to assume that the characters of TWD have all figured out that subsonic ammunition is essential for silenced shooting, and that they have all been able to acquire said subsonic ammunition since the onset of the zombie apocalypse. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 11:10, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:You are making a lot of assumptions and claims for a show that can't even hire an armorer or get blank fire guns. Firstly, improvised suppressors are not all that difficult to manufacture. It can be done with freeze plugs and steel pipe (though it may not last long). The problem is getting your weapon to function and cycle properly with one. Secondly, the vast majority of 147gr 9x19 loads are subsonic, you do not need special subsonic 9mm to run through a can, any 147gr ball or JHP will be fine. Subsonic ammo is not essential, and in some cases, not even recommended, as it won't reliably cycle the action in some gas operated weapons like an AR. A suppressor is just as important, if not more, for saving your own hearing than preventing others from hearing. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::If improvised silencers were really ''that'' easy to make for just any gun, and assuming that they all worked really well too, then just about every hardcore thug, gangbanger, street-level drug dealer, and bad guy in real life would have at least one or two silenced guns, but this is simply not reality. None of the LEO's whom I know in real life and have spoken with on this subject have been able to tell me about themselves encountering much of any improvised silencers in the possession of criminal suspects during their careers. For some guns out there, yes, it is rather easy to make a decent silencer for them on the fly out of various common objects and without having access to all that many tools. One such gun is the .22LR [[Ruger_Mk_I_/_Mk_II_/_Mk_III_Pistol|Ruger Mk I / Mk II / Mk III Pistol]] series. I have seen silencers made for that gun from drink bottles, PVC pipe, tractor mufflers, oil filters, and even more odd things than I could even list here. In the post-apocalyptic world of TWD however, I submit that it would actually be quite tricky to make an improvised silencer on the fly that also actually works well for a [[Glock_17#Glock_17|Glock 17]] or a [[Beretta_92FS#Beretta_92F.2FFS|Beretta 92FS]] like we have seen on this show's Season 3. Such a silencer would have to be attached firmly enough to the muzzle without flying downrange after the first or second shot, plus, the internal baffles, wipes, or whatever the design utilizes would also have to remain in alignment with the bore from one shot to the next. To accomplish this, it would most likely require swapping out the factory barrel with an extended barrel which also has external threading. I have not yet seen any depictions or explanation on this show about where and how Rick's group would have been able to make or acquire threaded barrels for any gun. For me, it would have been much more realistic if TWD had featured a scene, or at least made a mention, of Rick's group raiding a Class III licensed gun dealer's shop (There are quite a few such gun shops in Georgia, by the way, which is where TWD is supposedly taking place.) that had some professionally silenced guns, made with machine tools, which had been locked away in some gun safes that had not been breached yet by previous scavengers.

::Maybe it's just me, but most of the 9mm Luger ammunition that I have ever seen on the store shelves out there (Walmart, Kmart, smaller gun shops, etc.) is either 115 gr or 124 gr, and both of these are typically hypersonic, since their muzzle velocities are either slightly or greatly above the sound barrier of 1129 fps. What I usually do not see much of on most store shelves are those 9mm Luger 147 gr rounds, which are typically subsonic. (It seems that the heavier bullet weight is what makes the round subsonic by fault rather than design.)
:::I'll second this. I live in Texas(another very pro-gun state), and I shoot as well. At commercial retailer type stores like Walmart, you won't find sub-sonic 9mm ammo. Even a lot of gun retailers/shooting ranges don't carry it. That said, it's entertainment, for better or worse, you can't expect a ton of realism. Just like you may have to accept that some "elite special forces" guy is going to rush into a combat zone dual wielding a pair of .50 cal Desert Eagle or something in action movies, you just have to accept that the characters here have "silencers" that make guns really really quiet, and not dwell on the lack of realism in either situation. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] ([[User talk:DKS01|talk]]) 02:42, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::I have yet to ever hear anybody in the legitimate business of making or selling ATF-registered silencers recommend against using subsonic ammunition with any silencer. If an AR-type rifle is configured as a sniping system with a bipod, telescopic sights, and a silencer, then it would not really be such a big deal to me if the subsonic ammunition being fired through it failed to cycle the action. The shooter would just have to cycle the action manually after each shot. Besides, "One shot, one kill" is the sniper's motto anyway, right?

::Since the whole point of using a silencer in a zombie-apocalyptic world as depicted in TWD would be the desire to quietly kill a zombie without attracting any other zombies in the far-away distance to your location, to use anything other than subsonic ammunition would be somewhat self-defeating as far as I am concerned. The sonic "crack" that hypersonic ammunition makes when fired through even the best of silencer designs can actually be quite conspicuous downrange. I got to hear the difference for myself between subsonic and hypersonic ammunition being fired through various silencers during a Class III weapons demonstration at a target range once. Being that a 62 gr, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 round has a muzzle velocity of over 3,000 fps, the sonic "crack" made by this round after passing through any silencer simply has to be quite considerable. So, when I saw Merle firing a silenced M4 in S3E03 and heard how relatively quiet the discharge sounded, I could not help but wonder how unrealistic that seemed if we are to also assume that this M4 was also loaded with standard, military-issue, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 ammunition. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 00:58, 6 November 2012 (EST)

:::You are forgetting one thing. This is a TV show. They don't need to use actual practical silencers on the guns, they can stick whatever they want onto the barrel and sound FX takes care of the rest. You say that we are to assume that they are using subsonic ammo in their handguns. In reality, however, we don't. If you have seen any movie featuring suppressors, most are just cylinders slipped onto the barrels, not real suppressors. We aren't supposed to assume they are using subsonic ammo, we are supposed to assume that the director wants this pistol to be suppressed, so it will sound suppressed under any circumstances. You are reading way too much into something that has been happening in movies and TV for years. Also, it would have been a huge takeaway from the storytelling, if the characters just all of a sudden went into extensive detail into how they affectively suppressed their weapons and it is much easier just to show the audience, "This is a suppressor, it makes the gun quieter," and not adding on, "But it will only be silenced under extensive conditions." --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:17, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::::Yes, of course TWD is a TV show, but this is IMFDb, where we, the contributors to IMFDb, work to identify the firearms and other weapons used in live action TV show dramas and other genres of popular entertainment. IMFDb contributors also discuss gun-related issues pertinent to the depiction of guns in popular entertainment. Being that many of us IMFDb contributors are rather knowledgeable about guns in real life, sometimes one or more of us will take issue with the depiction of guns in popular entertainment on technical grounds that others will likely not even notice or care about. For me in this case, it was the usage of improvised silencers in Season 3 of TWD. If TWD had featured Rick, Carl, and other characters all using improvised silencers made from common objects on firearms chambered in .22 LR, then I would not have taken an issue with this on technical grounds, because in real life, I know just how easy it is to make silencers such as these that will actually perform well shot after shot, and I know how readily available subsonic .22 LR ammunition is. (Almost every large and small business establishment that sells firearm ammunition now stocks it.) Even though silencers have been depicted inaccurately in popular entertainment for years, now that more Americans and other folks abroad legally own real silencers than ever before, and now that even more folks can go online to watch numerous videos which definitively demonstrate what silencers in real life are really like, I feel that the the makers of popular entertainment will be left with no choice but to rethink how they depict the capabilities of silencers in order to keep their audiences happy. Perhaps they already have - there used to be depictions of working silencers on revolvers in popular entertainment made prior to about 1980 or so. Being that it is nearly impossible to build silencers for revolvers that would be both effective and practical, except for the [[Nagant_M1895|Nagant M1895]] revolver, silencer-equipped revolvers are almost never seen in popular entertainment nowadays. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 07:41, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Yes, I know this is IMFDB, I am pretty knowledgeable in firearms and that is why I use this site. I don't see many pages picking apart silencer inaccuracies, because almost all movies and TV shows depict silencers are small tubes that can suppress anything. It is understood that Hollywood does this, therefore if you want to pick apart the inaccurate use of suppressors in every TV show and movie then you are going to need a few years. Or decades. Or lifespans. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:12, 9 November 2012 (EST)

== Warships at sea, Cheyenne Mountain, Diego Garcia, etc. ==
Do the comics ever elaborate on these and other secure or hard-to-access locations? Land bases like Fort Benning and Fort Bragg getting swamped with sick and wounded civilians that subsequently turn into walkers and overrun them is one thing, but I can't see aircraft carriers in the middle of the world's oceans, a fortified nuclear bunker with severely restricted access, or an isolated island base like DG, having big walker problems. I could conceivably see the government falling back to any such location and continuing to function, even if just to form a floating military nation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:46, 9 November 2012 (EST)
we still don't know anything about this virus that has infected the entire planet. It does seem that everyone, even the living are infected because once killed the normal way, they turn into one of the zombies. Perhaps more restricted places are secured. We still don't know how the virus was spread but if it is airborne, than no where is safe for long. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:51, 9 November 2012 (EST)

:: Everything exalilbur said plus there was never much of any one who confirmed any hope that hinted there was any goverment left on an island or underground it makes sense they ( the goverment ) wouldn't want it to be known they'd prob wanna keep it a secret wait until hopefully the zombies roamed to well they were immobile except the head or till they starved hopefully ( there was actually one hope there was a walker that rotted to the ground and was immobalized cept the head it was hinted this could happen to other walkers ) then they would try to rebuild wat twas lost i saw the walking dead wikia that in the twd world theres 1 human for every 5000 zombies maybe americas combined with the rest of the world and then average out because wit all our guns I'd think * knock on wood * there'd be more survivors with all ours guns gun stores and the guns that were the militarys ... --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 02:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:: I've read other zombie stories where they talk about warships at sea during a similar zombie outbreak. In the Day by day armeggeddon series by J L Bourne, the navy had a carrier group that was steaming off the coast launching raids on coastal facilities for supplies and rescue ops. But he also wrote about how an outbreak on a ship could quickly spread out of control due to the confined space. Also had a sub that had been undersea during the outbreak and remained submerged for as long as they could. A crew member died and stayed dead until the sub had to surface. And Max Brooks World War Z had the US gov't relocated to hawaii after the military cleared the islands [[user:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

I really believe that the climbing number of gun owners in America and how much ammo is bought at the civlian level might work towards making a zombie outbreak impossible or at least controllable. None of the zombie books including Brooks really touch on the American gun culture [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:03, 16 November 2012 (EST)

:I have watched some episodes of a reality show which has followed new episodes of TWD on the AMC Sunday night lineup. "Comic Book Men" is the show which I am referring to here. (No, I am not a fan of this show. How this show got renewed for a second season is beyond me, but apparently somebody at AMC decided to renew it.) I believe it was during an episode of this reality show during its first season when Ming, one of the comic book store employees, made a personal revelation about his greatest fear in life being the zombie apocalypse. Walt, another comic book store employee, then gave Ming a look of incredulity and said to him something like, "Dude, don't you realize how many guns there are in this country?" What Walt said there was one of the few things that I have ever liked about this "Comic Book Men" reality show. "Comic Book Men" is a reality show which takes place in the vehemently anti-gun state of New Jersey, where less than 10% of the population shoots and/or owns guns legally, and I would not at all be surprised if none of the stars of this reality show have ever actually owned or fired a real gun in their entire lives. Despite this, at least one of this show's stars, Walt, seemed to understand that a considerable gun culture truly does exist in most states outside of New Jersey. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

::As for Max Brooks, the author of several "zombie survival" books, the guy's Wikipedia page says that he was born in New York City and raised by Hollywood director Mel Brooks and Hollywood actress Anne Bancroft. Being raised in the insanely anti-gun environment of New York City by parents with Hollywood careers and presumably left-leaning and anti-gun viewpoints, and then growing up to become a "Saturday Night Live" comedy writer based in New York City, would lead me to believe that Max Brooks never got to learn much of anything about real-life gun ownership and marksmanship at any point in his life whatsoever. Assuming that this is the case, this would then also explain why Max Brooks, along with other zombie-genre authors and writers with similar non-gun-owning life histories to his own, all seem to have failed to account for the prevalence of the American gun culture in real life when they crafted their fictional tales of zombie outbreaks somehow being able to entirely overwhelm America, and the rest of this world even, to the point where a complete societal breakdown becomes the end result. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:::While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST)

I haven't read the Zombie Survival Guide, but I have read World War Z (which is fucking awesome). One of the survivors makes a point that panicked gun owners shooting other uninfected people actually caused more casualties during the opening stages of the infection ("The Great Panic" as it's called in the book) than the living dead. I'd say it's a fair point, which actually makes the "more guns for all" theory work against America in that context. - Phalanx

:Max Brooks is nothing but just another "limousine liberal" gun-hating libtard elitist who grew up in New York City and Hollywood with the figurative silver spoon in his mouth. I did my research on Max Brooks and I read his Zombie Survival Guide. I surely will never buy his World War Z book though. Eff him and that book, seriously. Max Brooks dissed the M-16 rifle in his Zombie Survival Guide, but that was probably because he had read about the feed problems which the US Army had had with the M-16 rifle in Vietnam some 45+ years ago. If Max Brooks had ever tried joining the US Military sometime around 1990 or so when he had turned 18, then he would have known that the successor of the the original M-16 rifle from the Vietnam era was by then a markedly much better rifle, because he would likely have been issued a M-16A2 or whatever at that time. Instead, Max Brooks went to a small liberal arts college in California that kicked the ROTC program off of campus in 1991. For all we know, Max Brooks was probably all in favor of that policy decision. To reiterate, eff Max Brooks and his books. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 17:01, 3 December 2012 (EST)

== Guns in S03 E06 ==

One gun looks like a Walther P38.

Neil's gun (picked up by Merle after he kills him) looks like a Walther P9.

The other guy in Merle's party appears to have a Glock of some sort but isn't clear enough to be sure...90% certain of it though. Will upload screenshots later maybe.

Finally figured it out:

[[File:P38TWD.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

[[File:P9Merle.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

== Finally! Blanks! ==

In the episode "Made To Suffer"(This episode was F#$KING awesome) it appeared that many of the guns were shooting and cycling blanks. The first and most obvious one was the 870 used by Shupert, it looked like both Daryl's AKMS and Rick's M4A1 were cycling blanks at times, Maggie's P99 seemed to shoot blanks in one or two scenes, and many other random guns during the shootout in Woodbury.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:13, 3 December 2012 (EST)

== More rifles ==

Episode 8, saw a CX4 Storm and a 20 inch AR-15 series rifle with either a tan handguard or tape on it and what looked to be a cali style grip, either that or the actor was holding it strangely. Both in the background, but I'm positive it's an AR-15, but the CX4 could possibly be a dressed up Hi-Point. There were also 1 or 2 AK variants with wooden furniture, possibly Norincos, didn't see if the FSP was hooded or not (possibly a PolyTech), an AR-15 carbine with a rail system and a SOCOM stock as well as a full sized Uzi,a suppressed micro Uzi and what appears to be a Remington 870 with wooden furniture and several MP5Ks. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 16:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:The Walking Dead - Season 3

2012-12-03T21:50:18Z

Recon42: /* More rifles */ new section

==Season 3 Webisodes "Cold Storage"==
'''The following weapons were used in the 4-part webisode series entitled "Cold Storage":'''

===M16A1===
B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2. Chase is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.
[[Image:M16A1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A1 with 20 round magazine - 5.56x45mm. What distinguishes it from the original M16 was the addition of a raised rib around the magazine release button, changing of the forward Receiver pins, and the addition of the forward assist button on the upper receiver.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS02 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|B.J. ([[Daniel Roebuck]]) is seen holding an [[M16A1]] on Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]), notably in Part 2.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS04 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chase ([[Josh Stewart]]) is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.]]

===Smith & Wesson Model 29===
B.J. also carries a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] as his sidearm.
[[Image:Smith&WessonModel29.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 Magnum.]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

===AKMS===
An [[AKMS]]-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.
[[File:AKMS.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:TWDWebCS03_01.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

==Additional Screenshots==
[[Image:Walking dead ak.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Carol Peletier ([[Melissa McBride]]) fires the rifle from a watchtower in "Seed" (S3E01).]]
When did Carol get that gun? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:37, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
:I was wondering that too. One of the plausible explanations is that they grabbed it when raiding houses at the beginning of Season 3. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] ([[User talk:AdAstra2009|talk]]) 00:06, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

[[Image:M4_walking_dead_2.JPG|thumb|none|500px|In "Walk with Me" (S3E03), Soldier 2]]
Same thing with the M4A1. They didn't have it at the end of Season 2, so they most likely grabbed it when raiding houses. Same could probably be said for the Vektor CP1 as well. -- [[User: Antediluvial|Antediluvial]] ([[User talk: Antediluvial|talk]]) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:I would agree that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock, along with other guns which we have seen lately on TWD, were all likely acquired as a result of the group's scavenging efforts in private homes after they fled Hershel's farm at the end of Season 2. Rick probably decided to have his group rummage through a storage locker rental facility or two. Plus, Carl did briefly mention something about the group's previous living situation at a storage locker facility during the first episode of Season 3. (Watch TWD's "Cold Storage" webisodes if you have not yet.) Even though most real-life storage facility's rules prohibit the practice, there have been enough people who have kept their firearms and ammunition in their rented storage lockers anyway. A zombie apocalypse would not change this, which in turn could be beneficial to survivors in the know about such things. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::TWD is set in Georgia. As I have posited in a previous IMFDB forum post, Georgia in real life is a pro-gun "red" state that is simply chock-full of guns and gun owners, and not just the "Elmer Fudd" types of long guns normally used for hunting, either. This is especially true in the rural areas of Georgia. Even the Walmart stores there carry Colt AR-15's and Ruger Mini-14's. Despite all of this, the "Elmer Fudd" types of long hunting guns were all that there seemed to be available to Rick's group during Season 1 and 2 of TWD as they stayed in the greater Atlanta area. Some members of the group seemed to be rather anti-gun, too, but now it seems that such attitudes towards guns, along with the group's apparent lack of tactical firepower, is all going to become a distant memory as Season 3 unfolds. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

:::In Kennesaw,Ga there is actually a law that you have to own a gun there.

I own a WASR-10 myself, which a semi-automatic-only version of the AKMS rifle made from a combination of Romanian and American parts for legal reasons. My WASR-10 had solid wood furniture and a non-folding stock when it was shipped to the dealer from Century International Arms. I have not yet seen any of the WASR-10 series come from the factory with a tactical handguard with rails on it. A handguard such as this is what appears to be on Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Also, the sling on her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock appears to be one made for the Mosin Nagant type rifles, rather than one made for the AK/SKS rifle types. (I could see the “dog collar-style” leather attachment straps on this sling in one of the still frame shots of Carol holding her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Only the Mosin Nagant slings have those.) Being that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock was tricked out like this when we first saw her firing it, this would lead me to believe that this gun was formerly a part of some local resident's private gun collection or whatever. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 15:49, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Anybody notice that Carol had to manually cycle the action of the WASR she was using after taking the first shot?

:I would guess that Carol had to manually cycle the action because no BFA (blank firing adapter) was apparently on her rifle at the time. The most commonly found BFA for the AK-47 looks something like a shiny lug nut. (I own a few of these myself.) A BFA such as this would have really stood out in this scene if this was the only BFA available to the show's armorers at the time of production, so perhaps a decision was made to make do without a BFA on this rifle. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::OK, I'm getting a little bit annoyed with people calling any AKMS that lacks the indentations above the magazine a "WASR-10". We don't know for sure that that's what it is, and there are a lot of rifles in Hollywood that are "Franken-guns" built up from parts of multiple weapons. This weapon is more accurately described as an "AKMS" or AKMS-type rifle. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 15:28, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== Questionable Production Values ==

Am I the only one who was just laughing their ass off at the low production values of the shootout in the prison yard? No cycling actions, no recoil, no muzzle smoke, it's un-freaking-believable. If you don't want to have to train all the actors with firearms and just CG it for time's sake, fine; but if preteens on YouTube can do a better job with VFX for free, AMC has no viable excuse for that crap. Come on, AMC...
:The budget was slashed after the first season, with some saying it was cut by 20%. (And please sign your posts.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 21:51, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
::The budget is small enough as is, I can imagine the special effects (ie makeup and the like) and locations and all that take up the majority of the budget, then they have the actors. I didn't really mind the courtyard shootout that much.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
::I'm sure alot of that could be chalked up to the safety of the actors/extras, too. If I remember right, the fight was pretty close in.
:Yeah, to be honest I noticed that, too. Even Lori's Colt DS is being mime-fired. The LEAST they could have done is loaded it with dummy rounds and had her pull the trigger so the cylinder would spin. That looked like total garbage and even I noticed.- [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 03:05, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== WASR Rails ==
I think the handguard of Carol's WASR is [http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AKS-103 this model] made by UTG. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 04:13, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

== CGI muzzle flashes? ==

I'm watching the Third Season Premier on AMC's website, and I think they're using CGI flashes on the pistols while they're clearing the prison. The pistols clearly aren't cycling and no brass is being ejected. --BigD, October 21, 8:43 AM
:Yup they were, could have been due to safety as it was really obvious when Carl was shooting, however it could also be down to the severely reduced budget since the first season. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 16:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

== several soldiers had M4A1's ==

Several soldiers ambushed by the Governor and some " self trained soldiers " from woodbury the soldiers had m4a1's. the Governor Got a hold of one I think I may have seen and LMG M60 maybe m249 saw with the soldiers and an mp5k with a woodbury " soldier ". --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 00:57, 29 October 2012 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure the M4 the governor picks up after the ambush is the one that merle used to shot the zombie over the gate, without the suppressor, and the scope has been taken of but no one bothered to put a rear sight back on, if you look at the pictures they both have the same cloth wrap over the foreguard

==The Governor's Pistol==
The Governor ([[David Morrissey]]) carries a [[Beretta 92FS Inox]] as his personal sidearm. He also has a Kabar 1221 knife on his right hip, for anyone who may be interested. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 07:38, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: Hi-res pics [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-david-morrissey-governor-303.jpg here] and [http://www.gothic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/walking-dead-governor-episode-303.jpg here] that show off the Beretta logo on the grip. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] ([[User talk:Mmarlon brando|talk]]) 04:05, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

== The Usage of Silencers in Season 3 ==

Much unlike the comic book version of TWD, which is now beyond 100 issues at the time of this writing, the TV version of TWD has depicted the usage of silencers from the very first episode of Season 3 and beyond. I was quite pleased to see this development in the TV version, yet there are other aspects of their depiction that I have found to be just a bit unrealistic. I feel this way because I have had some experience with silencers in real life, so I know a bit about what they can and cannot do.

First of all, when it comes to these improvised silencers made from common objects (flashlight tubes, aluminum baseball bats, etc.) as we have seen so far in the TV version of TWD, it is not really all that easy to make one for a gun that is chambered for ammunition that is more powerful than the .22 LR cartridge. Even then, such a project can still be a challenge. It all depends on the gun which the silencer is being made for. (Living in the post-apocalyptic world of TWD would very likely not make the job of building a decent improvised silencer any easier.)

Secondly, for any silencer to really be worthwhile, the ammunition fired through it must be subsonic. There will be a loud sonic "crack" otherwise every time the gun is discharged. The 9mm cartridge is typically ''not'' subsonic. Most gun shops that I have been to typically do not stock subsonic 9mm ammunition. The only dealers that I have seen carrying it are the online retailers. Despite all this, we have seen Rick and Carl firing their 9mm Glock and Beretta pistols fitted with improvised silencers that seem to work quite well. It would have been a bit more realistic to see them firing silenced .45 ACP pistols actually, since the .45 ACP cartridge is typically subsonic in the first place. The same goes for the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Remington cartridge - they are typically ''not'' subsonic, and subsonic variants of this ammunition are also not widely available. Yet we have also seen at least one silenced M4 rifle, presumably chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington, being fired by Merle at some zombies on the perimeter of Woodbury. That being said, we would have to assume that the characters of TWD have all figured out that subsonic ammunition is essential for silenced shooting, and that they have all been able to acquire said subsonic ammunition since the onset of the zombie apocalypse. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 11:10, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:You are making a lot of assumptions and claims for a show that can't even hire an armorer or get blank fire guns. Firstly, improvised suppressors are not all that difficult to manufacture. It can be done with freeze plugs and steel pipe (though it may not last long). The problem is getting your weapon to function and cycle properly with one. Secondly, the vast majority of 147gr 9x19 loads are subsonic, you do not need special subsonic 9mm to run through a can, any 147gr ball or JHP will be fine. Subsonic ammo is not essential, and in some cases, not even recommended, as it won't reliably cycle the action in some gas operated weapons like an AR. A suppressor is just as important, if not more, for saving your own hearing than preventing others from hearing. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

::If improvised silencers were really ''that'' easy to make for just any gun, and assuming that they all worked really well too, then just about every hardcore thug, gangbanger, street-level drug dealer, and bad guy in real life would have at least one or two silenced guns, but this is simply not reality. None of the LEO's whom I know in real life and have spoken with on this subject have been able to tell me about themselves encountering much of any improvised silencers in the possession of criminal suspects during their careers. For some guns out there, yes, it is rather easy to make a decent silencer for them on the fly out of various common objects and without having access to all that many tools. One such gun is the .22LR [[Ruger_Mk_I_/_Mk_II_/_Mk_III_Pistol|Ruger Mk I / Mk II / Mk III Pistol]] series. I have seen silencers made for that gun from drink bottles, PVC pipe, tractor mufflers, oil filters, and even more odd things than I could even list here. In the post-apocalyptic world of TWD however, I submit that it would actually be quite tricky to make an improvised silencer on the fly that also actually works well for a [[Glock_17#Glock_17|Glock 17]] or a [[Beretta_92FS#Beretta_92F.2FFS|Beretta 92FS]] like we have seen on this show's Season 3. Such a silencer would have to be attached firmly enough to the muzzle without flying downrange after the first or second shot, plus, the internal baffles, wipes, or whatever the design utilizes would also have to remain in alignment with the bore from one shot to the next. To accomplish this, it would most likely require swapping out the factory barrel with an extended barrel which also has external threading. I have not yet seen any depictions or explanation on this show about where and how Rick's group would have been able to make or acquire threaded barrels for any gun. For me, it would have been much more realistic if TWD had featured a scene, or at least made a mention, of Rick's group raiding a Class III licensed gun dealer's shop (There are quite a few such gun shops in Georgia, by the way, which is where TWD is supposedly taking place.) that had some professionally silenced guns, made with machine tools, which had been locked away in some gun safes that had not been breached yet by previous scavengers.

::Maybe it's just me, but most of the 9mm Luger ammunition that I have ever seen on the store shelves out there (Walmart, Kmart, smaller gun shops, etc.) is either 115 gr or 124 gr, and both of these are typically hypersonic, since their muzzle velocities are either slightly or greatly above the sound barrier of 1129 fps. What I usually do not see much of on most store shelves are those 9mm Luger 147 gr rounds, which are typically subsonic. (It seems that the heavier bullet weight is what makes the round subsonic by fault rather than design.)
:::I'll second this. I live in Texas(another very pro-gun state), and I shoot as well. At commercial retailer type stores like Walmart, you won't find sub-sonic 9mm ammo. Even a lot of gun retailers/shooting ranges don't carry it. That said, it's entertainment, for better or worse, you can't expect a ton of realism. Just like you may have to accept that some "elite special forces" guy is going to rush into a combat zone dual wielding a pair of .50 cal Desert Eagle or something in action movies, you just have to accept that the characters here have "silencers" that make guns really really quiet, and not dwell on the lack of realism in either situation. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] ([[User talk:DKS01|talk]]) 02:42, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::I have yet to ever hear anybody in the legitimate business of making or selling ATF-registered silencers recommend against using subsonic ammunition with any silencer. If an AR-type rifle is configured as a sniping system with a bipod, telescopic sights, and a silencer, then it would not really be such a big deal to me if the subsonic ammunition being fired through it failed to cycle the action. The shooter would just have to cycle the action manually after each shot. Besides, "One shot, one kill" is the sniper's motto anyway, right?

::Since the whole point of using a silencer in a zombie-apocalyptic world as depicted in TWD would be the desire to quietly kill a zombie without attracting any other zombies in the far-away distance to your location, to use anything other than subsonic ammunition would be somewhat self-defeating as far as I am concerned. The sonic "crack" that hypersonic ammunition makes when fired through even the best of silencer designs can actually be quite conspicuous downrange. I got to hear the difference for myself between subsonic and hypersonic ammunition being fired through various silencers during a Class III weapons demonstration at a target range once. Being that a 62 gr, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 round has a muzzle velocity of over 3,000 fps, the sonic "crack" made by this round after passing through any silencer simply has to be quite considerable. So, when I saw Merle firing a silenced M4 in S3E03 and heard how relatively quiet the discharge sounded, I could not help but wonder how unrealistic that seemed if we are to also assume that this M4 was also loaded with standard, military-issue, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 ammunition. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 00:58, 6 November 2012 (EST)

:::You are forgetting one thing. This is a TV show. They don't need to use actual practical silencers on the guns, they can stick whatever they want onto the barrel and sound FX takes care of the rest. You say that we are to assume that they are using subsonic ammo in their handguns. In reality, however, we don't. If you have seen any movie featuring suppressors, most are just cylinders slipped onto the barrels, not real suppressors. We aren't supposed to assume they are using subsonic ammo, we are supposed to assume that the director wants this pistol to be suppressed, so it will sound suppressed under any circumstances. You are reading way too much into something that has been happening in movies and TV for years. Also, it would have been a huge takeaway from the storytelling, if the characters just all of a sudden went into extensive detail into how they affectively suppressed their weapons and it is much easier just to show the audience, "This is a suppressor, it makes the gun quieter," and not adding on, "But it will only be silenced under extensive conditions." --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:17, 6 November 2012 (EST)

::::Yes, of course TWD is a TV show, but this is IMFDb, where we, the contributors to IMFDb, work to identify the firearms and other weapons used in live action TV show dramas and other genres of popular entertainment. IMFDb contributors also discuss gun-related issues pertinent to the depiction of guns in popular entertainment. Being that many of us IMFDb contributors are rather knowledgeable about guns in real life, sometimes one or more of us will take issue with the depiction of guns in popular entertainment on technical grounds that others will likely not even notice or care about. For me in this case, it was the usage of improvised silencers in Season 3 of TWD. If TWD had featured Rick, Carl, and other characters all using improvised silencers made from common objects on firearms chambered in .22 LR, then I would not have taken an issue with this on technical grounds, because in real life, I know just how easy it is to make silencers such as these that will actually perform well shot after shot, and I know how readily available subsonic .22 LR ammunition is. (Almost every large and small business establishment that sells firearm ammunition now stocks it.) Even though silencers have been depicted inaccurately in popular entertainment for years, now that more Americans and other folks abroad legally own real silencers than ever before, and now that even more folks can go online to watch numerous videos which definitively demonstrate what silencers in real life are really like, I feel that the the makers of popular entertainment will be left with no choice but to rethink how they depict the capabilities of silencers in order to keep their audiences happy. Perhaps they already have - there used to be depictions of working silencers on revolvers in popular entertainment made prior to about 1980 or so. Being that it is nearly impossible to build silencers for revolvers that would be both effective and practical, except for the [[Nagant_M1895|Nagant M1895]] revolver, silencer-equipped revolvers are almost never seen in popular entertainment nowadays. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 07:41, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Yes, I know this is IMFDB, I am pretty knowledgeable in firearms and that is why I use this site. I don't see many pages picking apart silencer inaccuracies, because almost all movies and TV shows depict silencers are small tubes that can suppress anything. It is understood that Hollywood does this, therefore if you want to pick apart the inaccurate use of suppressors in every TV show and movie then you are going to need a few years. Or decades. Or lifespans. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:12, 9 November 2012 (EST)

== Warships at sea, Cheyenne Mountain, Diego Garcia, etc. ==
Do the comics ever elaborate on these and other secure or hard-to-access locations? Land bases like Fort Benning and Fort Bragg getting swamped with sick and wounded civilians that subsequently turn into walkers and overrun them is one thing, but I can't see aircraft carriers in the middle of the world's oceans, a fortified nuclear bunker with severely restricted access, or an isolated island base like DG, having big walker problems. I could conceivably see the government falling back to any such location and continuing to function, even if just to form a floating military nation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:46, 9 November 2012 (EST)
we still don't know anything about this virus that has infected the entire planet. It does seem that everyone, even the living are infected because once killed the normal way, they turn into one of the zombies. Perhaps more restricted places are secured. We still don't know how the virus was spread but if it is airborne, than no where is safe for long. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:51, 9 November 2012 (EST)

:: Everything exalilbur said plus there was never much of any one who confirmed any hope that hinted there was any goverment left on an island or underground it makes sense they ( the goverment ) wouldn't want it to be known they'd prob wanna keep it a secret wait until hopefully the zombies roamed to well they were immobile except the head or till they starved hopefully ( there was actually one hope there was a walker that rotted to the ground and was immobalized cept the head it was hinted this could happen to other walkers ) then they would try to rebuild wat twas lost i saw the walking dead wikia that in the twd world theres 1 human for every 5000 zombies maybe americas combined with the rest of the world and then average out because wit all our guns I'd think * knock on wood * there'd be more survivors with all ours guns gun stores and the guns that were the militarys ... --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 02:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:: I've read other zombie stories where they talk about warships at sea during a similar zombie outbreak. In the Day by day armeggeddon series by J L Bourne, the navy had a carrier group that was steaming off the coast launching raids on coastal facilities for supplies and rescue ops. But he also wrote about how an outbreak on a ship could quickly spread out of control due to the confined space. Also had a sub that had been undersea during the outbreak and remained submerged for as long as they could. A crew member died and stayed dead until the sub had to surface. And Max Brooks World War Z had the US gov't relocated to hawaii after the military cleared the islands [[user:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

I really believe that the climbing number of gun owners in America and how much ammo is bought at the civlian level might work towards making a zombie outbreak impossible or at least controllable. None of the zombie books including Brooks really touch on the American gun culture [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:03, 16 November 2012 (EST)

:I have watched some episodes of a reality show which has followed new episodes of TWD on the AMC Sunday night lineup. "Comic Book Men" is the show which I am referring to here. (No, I am not a fan of this show. How this show got renewed for a second season is beyond me, but apparently somebody at AMC decided to renew it.) I believe it was during an episode of this reality show during its first season when Ming, one of the comic book store employees, made a personal revelation about his greatest fear in life being the zombie apocalypse. Walt, another comic book store employee, then gave Ming a look of incredulity and said to him something like, "Dude, don't you realize how many guns there are in this country?" What Walt said there was one of the few things that I have ever liked about this "Comic Book Men" reality show. "Comic Book Men" is a reality show which takes place in the vehemently anti-gun state of New Jersey, where less than 10% of the population shoots and/or owns guns legally, and I would not at all be surprised if none of the stars of this reality show have ever actually owned or fired a real gun in their entire lives. Despite this, at least one of this show's stars, Walt, seemed to understand that a considerable gun culture truly does exist in most states outside of New Jersey. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

::As for Max Brooks, the author of several "zombie survival" books, the guy's Wikipedia page says that he was born in New York City and raised by Hollywood director Mel Brooks and Hollywood actress Anne Bancroft. Being raised in the insanely anti-gun environment of New York City by parents with Hollywood careers and presumably left-leaning and anti-gun viewpoints, and then growing up to become a "Saturday Night Live" comedy writer based in New York City, would lead me to believe that Max Brooks never got to learn much of anything about real-life gun ownership and marksmanship at any point in his life whatsoever. Assuming that this is the case, this would then also explain why Max Brooks, along with other zombie-genre authors and writers with similar non-gun-owning life histories to his own, all seem to have failed to account for the prevalence of the American gun culture in real life when they crafted their fictional tales of zombie outbreaks somehow being able to entirely overwhelm America, and the rest of this world even, to the point where a complete societal breakdown becomes the end result. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] ([[User talk:Kepiblanc|talk]]) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:::While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST)

I haven't read the Zombie Survival Guide, but I have read World War Z (which is fucking awesome). One of the survivors makes a point that panicked gun owners shooting other uninfected people actually caused more casualties during the opening stages of the infection ("The Great Panic" as it's called in the book) than the living dead. I'd say it's a fair point, which actually makes the "more guns for all" theory work against America in that context. - Phalanx

== Guns in S03 E06 ==

One gun looks like a Walther P38.

Neil's gun (picked up by Merle after he kills him) looks like a Walther P9.

The other guy in Merle's party appears to have a Glock of some sort but isn't clear enough to be sure...90% certain of it though. Will upload screenshots later maybe.

Finally figured it out:

[[File:P38TWD.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

[[File:P9Merle.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

== Finally! Blanks! ==

In the episode "Made To Suffer"(This episode was F#$KING awesome) it appeared that many of the guns were shooting and cycling blanks. The first and most obvious one was the 870 used by Shupert, it looked like both Daryl's AKMS and Rick's M4A1 were cycling blanks at times, Maggie's P99 seemed to shoot blanks in one or two scenes, and many other random guns during the shootout in Woodbury.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|1911isthebestgunever]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 01:13, 3 December 2012 (EST)

== More rifles ==

Episode 8, saw a CX4 Storm and a 20 inch AR-15 series rifle with either a tan handguard or tape on it and what looked to be a cali style grip, either that or the actor was holding it strangely. Both in the background, but I'm positive it's an AR-15, but the CX4 could possibly be a dressed up Hi-Point [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 16:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Sleeping Dogs

2012-08-28T13:22:55Z

Recon42: /* Redone */

=Commercial=
==Beretta 92FS Inox==
The [[Beretta M92F#Beretta Inox|Berreta 92 FS Inox]] was used by Wei Shen to kill multiple triad members while trying to get a suitcase in the Live-action trailer.
[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beretta 92FS INOX - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:Johnwoo46.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Image of Wei Shen's Beretta in his waistband.]]
[[File:Johnwoo45.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A triad member takes Wei Shen's gun only to be stabbed by a knife.]]
[[File:Johnwoo48.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A triad member takes Wei Shen's gun only to be stabbed by a knife.]]
[[File:Johnwoo52.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wei Shen kicking knife into triads chest.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5K==
The [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]] was used by Wei Shen and multiple triad members during the live-action trailer.
[[File:MP5KA3.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch MP5KN - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Johnwoo49.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Triad Members wait for Wei Shen to come out of kitchen with his hostage.]]
[[File:Johnwoo47.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Triad Members hold guns to Wei Shen and his hostage.]]
[[File:Johnwoo51.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wei Shen shoots at Police with an MP5K.]]

==Unknown Pistol==
The unknown pistol is used by a few triad members. Wei Shen grabs it from one of them and then uses it until he runs out of ammo.
[[File:Johnwoo50.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

=Discussion=
== Commercial? ==

I'm not totally 100% sure that this page should stay up because these live action screenshots are from a trailer to the videogame and not actual gameplay. This was similar to the elaborate commercial for [[Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3|Modern Warfare 3]], but those screenshots were just added to the discussion page and not on the main game page. I would welcome some more opinions on this. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:45, 24 March 2012 (CDT)
:Take these shots away and the page is empty. This is basically a page for a commercial at this point, as there is NOTHING here that's actually related to the game. We can move the code to the discussion page, delete the main page, and if it gets recreated, the discussion page will still be here. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:02, 27 March 2012 (CDT)

There is already a gameplay trailer out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MBFOidzHOo --[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 03:03, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

Game's been out for at least a day now. If anyone has caps, feel free to remake the page and get them up. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:48, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== Unknown Pistol ==
The unknown pistol is probably P226 or P228. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 08:45, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Redone ==

Missing: Assault Rifle w/ Grenade Launcher, HKPD sidearm, pump shotgun, semi-automatic shotgun and an image of the SMG. Since all weapons appear to be modifications of existing designs this page will need a lot of additional details added. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 03:39, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

k, here are some Frankenguns for you to pick apart:

[[File:Sleeping Dogs - GrenadeRifle 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Assault Rifle w/ grenade launcher]]
[[File:Sleeping Dogs - Auto 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Riot Shotgun, a [[Valtro PM5 Shotgun|PM5]] on crack.]]
:Maybe a [[Hawk_shotgun_series#Hawk_Semi-Auto|Hawk Semi-Auto]] tactical shotgun? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:02, 22 August 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:Hawk-Semiauto.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hawk Semi-Auto Tactical - 12 Gauge]]

:: Nice catch. The only difference is the stock and the back of the receiver. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 10:12, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:: Added it, will need to write a more detailed description, though. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 10:39, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

I think the Assault Rifle is the a QBZ-95 with a custom body shroud, and the main pistol is the QSZ-92 pistol. google and weep?
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 18:45, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

:I don't see the QSZ-92 in the game's pistol at all. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:29, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

I think the Assault rifle is based off an L85A2, it looks similar to it with a 40mm forend as well as the charging handle, possibly mixed with a TAR-21 Flat Top because of the trigger guard covering the whole hand and the upper receiver looks similar--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 08:22, 28 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Medal of Honor: Warfighter

2012-08-22T12:23:48Z

Recon42: /* New trailer weapons */

== LaRue OBR ==

I changed the M4 entry, but I don't have a picture of the OBR without LaRue watermaks. -- Spike785 2/25/2012 10:35PM

Yeah, I went ahead and removed the M4 picture. No point in having it there if it isn't the weapon being described. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:53, 25 February 2012 (CST)

I suppose I should have done that. Should I link the 7.62 OBR pic? Or buy one and upload some sexy pics of it? [[User:Spike785|Spike785]] 23:19, 25 February 2012

Its not an OBR like I originaly thought, its a PredatAR. The handguard is too thin to be an OBR's, and the way the handguard angles up toward the reciever gives it away. [[User:Spike785|Spike785]] 9:21, 26 February 2012

:It is an OBR 5.56, the top rail is raised up higher than on a PredatAR. The 5.56 OBR is pretty different to the 7.62 in terms of the handguard being more like the PredatAR one. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:04, 26 February 2012 (CST)

== MEU(SOC) Pistol? ==

Is that the M1911 variant in new game? The lower part of slide doesn't seem to end like one. It could be one of custom M1911s used by Delta Force. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 8 March 2012 (CST)

I'm just happy there's a 1911, period. lol Hopefully it appears in the SP campaign, though. I've no interest in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 8 March 2012 (CST)

the M1911 makes me happy as well but I'd also like to see another SIG in SP. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:20, 8 March 2012 (CST)

== Sniper Rifle in Trailer ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/03/shoot-win Shoot To Win | Medal of Honor]

It's one of the four: [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-cs5.php CS5] / [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-300.php TAC-300] / [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-50.php TAC-50] / [http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?clicktype=rifles M1A] (McMillan customized)

And totally not M40 of any kind.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Sweet, we get to play as Ryan McMillan. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:24, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

It's propbly the the TAC-300, the limited edition of the game come with a MP SEAL skin and the TAC-300 rifle early unlocks. - Wantabe_Warrior

== More details of the cover art! ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/03/worlds-finest-illumination-tools-and-tactical-products SureFire, LLC | Medal of Honor]

The [http://www.surefire.com/FA556-212-Suppressor FA556-212 Sound Suppressor], attached to the [http://www.surefire.com/mb556k-muzzle-brakeadapter.html MB556K Muzzle Brake / Suppressor Adapter];

The [http://www.surefire.com/m720v.html M720V RAID WeaponLight], attached to the left rail of the weapon, with its remote dual switch attached to the top rail of the weapon.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:23, 31 March 2012 (CDT)

== Dual Sights! ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/04/brilliant-aiming-solutions Trijicon, Inc. | Medal of Honor]

''"We will also give the player the ability to deploy ACOG® weapon sights with a “piggy-back” Ruggedized Miniature Reflex or RMR® for close-quarter engagements without having to transition from the primary to a secondary weapon system. But just in case, if gamers want to forgo all magnification, they may also choose to outfit their weapon with the full sized Trijicon Reflex Sight."''

'''Another conclusion''': the weapon sight on the cover art turns out to be [http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_TA01NSNRMR_p/trijicon-ta01nsn-rmr.htm TA01NSN-RMR] rather than [http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_TA01NSNDOC_p/trijicon-ta01nsn-doc.htm TA01NSN-DOC].

'''Another speculation''': will the [http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RX01 RX01] / [http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RX01NSN RX01NSN] reflex sight have correct amber dot reticle, like IRL, or incorrect red dot reticle, like in [[Battlefield 3|BF3]]? Place your bets.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:46, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

== MP interview firearms ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-wWouKKQEM&feature=player_embedded

SASR armed with an AUG (I assume Austeyr) at 0:55 and a mortar of some sort at 1:08.[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]]
:Don't think it is an Austeyr as it is missing the bayonet lug on the barrel. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:01, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Steyr AUG ==

In a video report of the E3 2012 on the official website the AUG make a short apperance. It's actual game footage from the multiplayer contest at the LA expo and the rifle is shown used by the guys who won the contest. It appears with a tan camo and dual sight.
(sorry fot eh weak english)
:By the look of the camoflage on the arm (DPDU) it looks like its for the aussies, though thats a little erroneous seeing we have our own steyrs (F88SA2's as of current, see [http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=89682.0;attach=29950;image])

*Also odd is its inclusion as a SASR weapon when SASR (or any Aussie SOF) have not used the F88 platform for over a decade. Clearly its been included simply to get an AUG variant into the game... ~~YEPPOON~~

:They kind of have to to have a varied weapon selection between units, since the SASR uses the M4A1 as their regular issue weapon just like virtually every first-world SOF unit in existence. And those that don't use actual M4s (like the Brits and I believe the Norwegians) instead use C8s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:02, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== SIG P-226, HK USP - Medal of Honor Warfighter Grudge Match ==

What looks like a SIG P-226 and a HK USP can be seen in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6TORbW87qE]--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:10, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

Freddie's got a SIG P226. EDIT: Actually I think he uses a USP9 for the second match. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 10:18, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

Its not a USP. Its a HK45C with extended 10 round magazine. Same one Navy SEALs have been using for a few years. I'm sure the player just mistook it for a USP. [http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2009/Day3/DSC04917.JPG] --[[User:snake1|snake1]]

Yeah I was just about to say that, at one point in the video you can see HK45C written on the slide and HK45 on the grip. Here's the pic: [[Image:HK45CMOH.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The slide reads ''HK45C .45 Auto'' and ''HK45'' can be seen on the grip. The pistol also has a threaded barrel.]] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 10:46, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

== New trailer weapons ==

From what I can see in the new fireteam trailer the Glock variant is an 18, there's a PKP Pecheneg, a SMAW, an AK5, an AKS-74U with a fixed stock or possibly a generic Krinkov (referred to as "Suchka" or "Little Bitch", a Kimber 1911, a Remington 870, an OBR 7.62, what I think is an MSR, the F88 AUG and an M79 grenade launcher. There's also an M86 PDM as seen in the killfeed on one of the shots. Here's a link to see if anyone can spot something I missed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUxxNv3NCB8&feature=channel&list=UL--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 07:28, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

You sure that's a Kimber? I watched the trailer a couple times and never got a really good look at the 1911. Maybe it's the one that Larry Vickers built for the game.
http://www.recoilweb.com/larry-vickers-demos-hk-mp7-7665.html
Either way, I'm glad we get to kick some ass using JMB's masterpiece in this one. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 13:43, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Yeah, I think that's the right 1911. I think it's kind of ironic that after so many CoD fails with naming it the AK74U that we finally get what really could be called that (fixed stock in krinkov config)--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 16:06, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:Maybe it's a stab at CoD by EA? Like, "hey guy, this is an ''actual'' "AK-74U", look and learn, amateurs!" [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:47, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

That's what I thought too, that's why I love DICE being so competitive after BF3 coming out and giving MW3 a kicking--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 07:23, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== We need more images ==

I have edited this page to add some of the new weapons that have been shown in trailers over the past two months. However, someone needs to add images from the trailers to the page. Also, someone needs to analyze the promotional images that have come out and add whatever weapons appear in them to this page - because I can't do that, as I don't know enough about guns. [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] 10:29, 16 August 2012 (CDT)
:Or we can just wait for the game to come out in October and we can be absolutely certain about the guns and get real screenshots. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:56, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== We need a freaking kit up screen! ==
I know, it's unlikely we'll get one, but I'm getting pretty tired of the "here's the weapon you get to use" approach that shooters take these days. Units like Delta and ST6 get their pick of the armory, so since we're playing these very guys, shouldn't we the players get the same luxury? I could understand making mission-essential accessories (suppressors, etc.) mandatory, but at least let us choose the weapon itself. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:04, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
:Like in GR:FS. That would be great. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:26, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
:Or like ''SOCOM III'' had back in 2006.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:59, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
:You forgot about SOCOM 4.--[[User:Commandoninja137|Commandoninja137]] 17:03, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
::Because I haven't played it. So I wouldn't know. =p [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:50, 18 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Medal of Honor: Warfighter

2012-08-15T21:06:25Z

Recon42: /* New trailer weapons */

== LaRue OBR ==

I changed the M4 entry, but I don't have a picture of the OBR without LaRue watermaks. -- Spike785 2/25/2012 10:35PM

Yeah, I went ahead and removed the M4 picture. No point in having it there if it isn't the weapon being described. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:53, 25 February 2012 (CST)

I suppose I should have done that. Should I link the 7.62 OBR pic? Or buy one and upload some sexy pics of it? [[User:Spike785|Spike785]] 23:19, 25 February 2012

Its not an OBR like I originaly thought, its a PredatAR. The handguard is too thin to be an OBR's, and the way the handguard angles up toward the reciever gives it away. [[User:Spike785|Spike785]] 9:21, 26 February 2012

:It is an OBR 5.56, the top rail is raised up higher than on a PredatAR. The 5.56 OBR is pretty different to the 7.62 in terms of the handguard being more like the PredatAR one. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:04, 26 February 2012 (CST)

== MEU(SOC) Pistol? ==

Is that the M1911 variant in new game? The lower part of slide doesn't seem to end like one. It could be one of custom M1911s used by Delta Force. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 8 March 2012 (CST)

I'm just happy there's a 1911, period. lol Hopefully it appears in the SP campaign, though. I've no interest in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 8 March 2012 (CST)

the M1911 makes me happy as well but I'd also like to see another SIG in SP. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:20, 8 March 2012 (CST)

== Sniper Rifle in Trailer ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/03/shoot-win Shoot To Win | Medal of Honor]

It's one of the four: [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-cs5.php CS5] / [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-300.php TAC-300] / [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-50.php TAC-50] / [http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?clicktype=rifles M1A] (McMillan customized)

And totally not M40 of any kind.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Sweet, we get to play as Ryan McMillan. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:24, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

It's propbly the the TAC-300, the limited edition of the game come with a MP SEAL skin and the TAC-300 rifle early unlocks. - Wantabe_Warrior

== More details of the cover art! ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/03/worlds-finest-illumination-tools-and-tactical-products SureFire, LLC | Medal of Honor]

The [http://www.surefire.com/FA556-212-Suppressor FA556-212 Sound Suppressor], attached to the [http://www.surefire.com/mb556k-muzzle-brakeadapter.html MB556K Muzzle Brake / Suppressor Adapter];

The [http://www.surefire.com/m720v.html M720V RAID WeaponLight], attached to the left rail of the weapon, with its remote dual switch attached to the top rail of the weapon.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:23, 31 March 2012 (CDT)

== Dual Sights! ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/04/brilliant-aiming-solutions Trijicon, Inc. | Medal of Honor]

''"We will also give the player the ability to deploy ACOG® weapon sights with a “piggy-back” Ruggedized Miniature Reflex or RMR® for close-quarter engagements without having to transition from the primary to a secondary weapon system. But just in case, if gamers want to forgo all magnification, they may also choose to outfit their weapon with the full sized Trijicon Reflex Sight."''

'''Another conclusion''': the weapon sight on the cover art turns out to be [http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_TA01NSNRMR_p/trijicon-ta01nsn-rmr.htm TA01NSN-RMR] rather than [http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_TA01NSNDOC_p/trijicon-ta01nsn-doc.htm TA01NSN-DOC].

'''Another speculation''': will the [http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RX01 RX01] / [http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RX01NSN RX01NSN] reflex sight have correct amber dot reticle, like IRL, or incorrect red dot reticle, like in [[Battlefield 3|BF3]]? Place your bets.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:46, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

== MP interview firearms ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-wWouKKQEM&feature=player_embedded

SASR armed with an AUG (I assume Austeyr) at 0:55 and a mortar of some sort at 1:08.[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]]
:Don't think it is an Austeyr as it is missing the bayonet lug on the barrel. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:01, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Steyr AUG ==

In a video report of the E3 2012 on the official website the AUG make a short apperance. It's actual game footage from the multiplayer contest at the LA expo and the rifle is shown used by the guys who won the contest. It appears with a tan camo and dual sight.
(sorry fot eh weak english)
:By the look of the camoflage on the arm (DPDU) it looks like its for the aussies, though thats a little erroneous seeing we have our own steyrs (F88SA2's as of current, see [http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=89682.0;attach=29950;image])

== SIG P-226, HK USP - Medal of Honor Warfighter Grudge Match ==

What looks like a SIG P-226 and a HK USP can be seen in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6TORbW87qE]--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:10, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

Freddie's got a SIG P226. EDIT: Actually I think he uses a USP9 for the second match. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 10:18, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

Its not a USP. Its a HK45C with extended 10 round magazine. Same one Navy SEALs have been using for a few years. I'm sure the player just mistook it for a USP. [http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2009/Day3/DSC04917.JPG] --[[User:snake1|snake1]]

Yeah I was just about to say that, at one point in the video you can see HK45C written on the slide and HK45 on the grip. Here's the pic: [[Image:HK45CMOH.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The slide reads ''HK45C .45 Auto'' and ''HK45'' can be seen on the grip. The pistol also has a threaded barrel.]] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 10:46, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

== New trailer weapons ==

From what I can see in the new fireteam trailer the Glock variant is an 18, there's a PKP Pecheneg, a SMAW, an AK5, an AKS-74U with a fixed stock or possibly a generic Krinkov (referred to as "Suchka" or "Little Bitch", a Kimber 1911, a Remington 870, an OBR 7.62, what I think is an MSR, the F88 AUG and an M79 grenade launcher. There's also an M86 PDM as seen in the killfeed on one of the shots. Here's a link to see if anyone can spot something I missed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUxxNv3NCB8&feature=channel&list=UL--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 07:28, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

You sure that's a Kimber? I watched the trailer a couple times and never got a really good look at the 1911. Maybe it's the one that Larry Vickers built for the game.
http://www.recoilweb.com/larry-vickers-demos-hk-mp7-7665.html
Either way, I'm glad we get to kick some ass using JMB's masterpiece in this one. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 13:43, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Yeah, I think that's the right 1911. I think it's kind of ironic that after so many CoD fails with naming it the AK74U that we finally get what really could be called that (fixed stock in krinkov config)--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 16:06, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Medal of Honor: Warfighter

2012-08-15T12:28:11Z

Recon42: /* New trailer weapons */ new section

Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV

2012-08-12T20:05:37Z

Recon42: /* Remington 1100 / 11-87 */

- Just a quick message from the creator, thanks for updating and correcting the article. It looks professional now. Thanks again.

== Colt M4A1 ==

''Total BS, that's got to be a M468/REC7, model design is nothing close to an M4A1''
(comment placed here so as to not clutter up the main article)

:Hi. I've looked at M468 and the REC7, and while, yes, they do bear some resemblance, there are also many differences which distinguish it to not be the weapon used in GTA IV. For example, the foregrip of the M468 is vastly different from the in-game weapon which is cylindrical, much like a stock M4, and does not have the R.I.S foregrip which features on the M468 or REC7. Another difference is that of the front sight, which is upright and fixed, found on the game's version of the weapon (again, like the M4A1) does not feature on either the M468 or REC7. Furthermore, neither the M468 or REC7 have a front sling hoop and the M468 has a shorter barrel than the game's weapon. [[User:Chef Brian|'''''Chef Brian''''']] [[User talk:Chef Brian|Vrooom]] 20:06, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

::This gun can't be an M468 or a 416 because both those guns have flip up sights. This rifle in game has the standard front sights of an M4. It just has the carrying handle taken off and replaced with an H&K style rear sight. Get pics of a these guns together on one screen and you can really tell the difference. Hell, I'll do it myself

[[Image:Hk416-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 10 inch barrel, 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Colt M4A1 Carbine - 5.56mm]]
[[Image:BarettM468.gif|thumb|none|500px|Barrett M468 6.8 caliber.]]

Now comparing, seeing which one fits the one Niko is using.

[[Image:M4gta.jpg|none|thumb|300px|The M4A1 Carbine]]

Definitely a M4A1 Carbine, The only thing that makes even an argument for it being a 416 is the absence of the carry handle and rear site.
Another thing is the cylindrical AR-15 foregrips (they arent rail covers) I have yet to see a 416 with a cylindrical foregrip. -[[User:AdAstra2009]]
I DON'T THINK SO THE 416 HAS FLIP UP SIGHTS.. ONLY THE M468 DOES. ANYWAY, ITS' SIMPLY AN M4A1 WITH CARRYING HANDLE REMOVED AND DIFFERENT SIGHT
:^Stop writing in all capitals please. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

[[Image:Parts_CA_P118M_lg.jpg|none|thumb|300px|The sight on the M4A1 in game]]
Here is the sight on the M4. It is not a 416.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== Lost and Damned Compensated Pistol ==
Definitely a CZ-75 style pistol,looks nothing like a BHP, besides the slide is not tall enough to be a Browning Hi-Power.
[[Image:Cz75.jpg|thumb|none|350px|CZ-75 9mm]]
[[Image:BrowningHiPowerStd.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning Hi-Power 9mm]]
[[Image:ColtM1911 1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Shot from the game]]

== HK XM320 ==

From the picture on the official site it looks like the grenade launcher is the XM320's predecessor the HK69. You can tell from where the stock connects to the frame. But we shall see when the game is released if the breach opens to the side or top. It might be a combination gun.

==Lost and Damned Weapons==

Anyone got any new, good pictures of the new weapons from the Lost and Damned? If you have any, post them.

==Glock 17==

It would actually make sense that the regular pistol in the game was a Glock 22. As someone pointed out, the CZ-75, a 9mm pistol, isn't as powerful as the Glock. In addition, we should call it a Glock 22 based on appearance, not specifications. For instance, previous GTA games used a Colt 1911 as the main pistol, despite it having an unrealistic 17 round magazine. Nonetheless, it was a Colt 1911, just like this is clearly a Glock 22. Hey if you get a close up of the Glock in game it says 22 on the side making it a Glock 22.

The Glock 22 '''does''' accept an optional 17 round magazine.

Just like to point out that whoever changed the Glock 22 to a Glock 17 is a dumbass and I'm changing it back. - PersonOfInterest

How am I a dumb ass? I'm going to change it right back.

Because you're completely ignoring established precedent. Stop being a dumbass. - PersonOfInterest

Well the "established precedent" is fucked up.

''Established precedent'' on this site is to identify guns by '''visual''' standards. The texture does indeed have a "22" on the slide, so therefor that's what we go by. So it's a 22, despite the 17 round mag. Please stop the flaming, PersonOfInterest. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:40, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

The great irony of all this is that the NYPD actually uses the Glock 19. Isn't life funny sometimes? - [[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]]

The even greater irony is this is Liberty City is a fictional city only based off of New York, therefor, whatever the real world city police force use does not apply to the fictional city police force. [[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 17:51, 11 April 2011 (CDT)

It might say 22 on the slide but all the other evidence in the game makes it out to be a Glock 17. The magazine capacity, the fact that everyone refers to it as a 9mm. Yet all this is being ignored because the modelers but a tiny 22 on the slide which you can't even make out in the actual game. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 08:13, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

:Mag capacities are often wrong in games (just look at the older GTAs which had 17-rounder 1911s!) and who refers to it as a 9mm? I can only recall one reference to it being a 9mm, and that's the hint text when you buy weapons from Little Jacob. That could easily be a goof. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 09:20, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

::I remember in the cutscenes 9mm being mentioned. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:03, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

==AK-47==

Could someone get a good screenshot of the AK-47 in-game and post it.
[[Image:Machine_Gun.jpg|thumb|350px|none|AK-47 in GTA IV]]
:There you go. [[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]]

Thanks for the AK-47 screenshot. It looks really good. Now, does anyone have ANY screenshots from the Lost and Damned part of the game? It'd be really cool to see some of the sawn off shotgun and the grenade launcher. I really wanna see what the new guns look like before I download The Lost and The Damned.

Does anyone have any pictures of the Desert Eagle in gameplay? If you have or get any, please post them.

== About the Ithaca 37 ==
The gun in game doesnt look very much like a stakeout at all. you shouldn't base it off of some airsoft gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 21:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
::That's probably what the developers did.-protoAuthor
:::Then I can say that's probably what they didn't do just as easily --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Well, unless you know of another gun that looks like the in-game gun, it really IS most likely what the developers did, despite what you think. I mean, just look at the two photos. They are almost exactly the same. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 19:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
the gun is side ejecting, so it can't be an ithica. ithicas eject from the bottom.

:::::In Far Cry 2, the Ithaca 37 ejects from side too.

::::::and so it does in a fuckton of other games so thats not really an issue.

== AK vs M4 ==

Okay, so in GTA IV you've got the AK-47 and M4A1 to choose from, but which is best? Well, the AK seems to have more power, which makes sense, and the M4 is more accurate, which again makes sense. But really, which is a better rifle to use overall?--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 20:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

::I think the M4 has a better rate of fire but i'm not sure.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Thanks to whoever got those kick-ass screenshots of the snipers and desert eagle and the Micro-Uzi. Those shots are pretty damn awesome.

::::No problem :-) -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 20:00, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

:::::Believe it or not, the AK-47 and the M4A1 do the same damage in SP, and the M4A1 does more in multiplayer. (I know for sure because I've seen the values) Meanwhile, the M4A1 can shoot farther than the AK, which is obviously inaccurate. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 11:49, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Inaccurate?! you say a 5.56 mm with AR mechanic has a shorter engage range then a russian-made weapon intended to mass-production? the M4 shoots circa 600 meters in real life, and it's a carbine. The M16 hits 800. the ak doesn't hit anything over 150 meters. anyway, I saw values too, and they say are identical, but they're not. The AK has a bit more stopping power, and the M4 is more accurate, has lighter recoil and more action range.

I would go for the M4 later in the game.

The M4 isn't meant or even used for 600 yards. Thats the M16, the M4 is good for about 400.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

==WTF?==
:I can't seem to get a copy of this game that doesn't freeze up sometimes. I've tried 5 different copies on 2 different 360's and they all froze at some point. I even went and tracked down a brand new copy and it still froze. I'm getting sick and tired of having to do missions over because the freezes before I can save-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 07:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
::Hm. I know there were freezing issues around the launch of the PS3 version due to network load problems, but those were cleared up. Is it possible both the 360s were having disc or hard drive issues? [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:01, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
:Nope. one was a brand new Elite and the other one was in good condition-S&Wshooter

===Heckler & Koch MP5A3===

One of the screenshots from the beta version of the game depict Niko holding a [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]] with it's stock extended. However, this weapon was removed from the final version of the game, and replaced by the [[MP5#Special_Weapons_MP-10_and_SP-10|MP-10]] .
[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:gta4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Niko holds a [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]] in the beta version of the game.]]

::MP5A3 should be removed -it is not a "non player weapon" it is a weapon that is not even in the game so it is irrelevant. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 01:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree. These weapons aren't counted in any of the other GTA games, so why should we start here? I also think putting in the other weapons that are only in the artwork is irrelevant as well. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 19:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

actualy it is in the game in the loading seqwince of the game it shows a picture of to police officers one with a SPAS-12 and another with a MP-5 --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 18:16, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

== Gay Tony weapons ==

on the official website it appears there will also be an Automag. the AA12 is ejecting green shotgun shells in the trailer, and is shown to be firing Frag12 rounds in the Weazel News special on gun crime in Liberty City.

ok just a complete list for people not looking at the main page for some reason? (feel free to correct it)
.44 AMT AUTOMAG
auto assault 12 shotgun (explosive rounds avalible too that are unrealistic)
FN P90 with suppressor
gold plated UZI
M249 SAW
and a DSR-1

How are exploding shotgun shells unrealistic? the company that makes the AA12 makes them, they're called FRAG12 rounds.

ok let me clear that up their realistic but in game their not i mean its makes a dent the size of a person in the side door of a taxi but the taxi is relatively undamaged including the occupant and the explosions are litarly explosions about 4 ft in diameter

That sounds so awesome! -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 15:47, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
:Trust me... it is. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:57, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

its is but just when noting it on this site i mean its unrealistic

In TBoGT, Green shells indicate explosive rounds, red are standard. And dispite what the article says, the "Advanced Sniper" does not fire explosive round - Primevil
:No, you're right, it doesn't. If that hasn't yet been removed, I'll do so now. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:10, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

My mistake. It does in fact fire explosive rounds, but they are only available in muliplayer.

Actually you can obtain exploding Sniper rounds but only Via cheat codes and here it is, courtesy of www.gta4.net
Explosive Sniper (NEW!)
Makes the sniper rifles fire explosive rounds. 486-555-2526 (TBOGT ONLY)

== Gay Tony FN P90 ==
Is the P90 in The Ballad of Gay Tony a FN PS90 converted to full-auto?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:38, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
:I don't think so. The barrel on the PS90 is longer and thinner than the one in the game. My guess is it's a suppressor, but we won't find out until the game is released. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]]

yea its a suppressor more of a "thock" sound than anything -scarecrow

It is a supressor, and it is not removeable, contrarey to the article - Primevil

An interesting note on this gun is that, even though Luis cannot use it for drive bys, in later Drug Wars missions his friends can be seen firing it one handed.--[[User:Westernman1987|Westernman1987]] 12:16, 27 April 2011 (CDT)

== old gun ==
what i don't understand is why the armourers or people who decide what guns go on the game chose such an out of date pistol. the AMC Automag had stopped prodution ages before the new millenium so why decide to put it in a modern day game, the gun would have been more appropriate for GTA Vice city or Vc Stories since they were set in the mid 80's.
:It's because the Automag looks like it could take a man's head off even if you miss-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 23:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
:You know, I pride myself on trying to be clever, but I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a better response than that. -protoAuthor 00:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Ah the old adage of "I'm not a good shot but this shoots REALLY big bullets" (courtesy of Hellboy) if that were the case why not a S&W500? the biggest production handgun cartridge. though it only holds 5 shots which many would get angry over in a videogame.

:I'm guessing its because the Automag just looks cool. The S&W 500 just looks like a regular revolver. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:32, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
::Because it's the gun Charles Bronson used in Death Wish 3 to kill hundreds. And Clint Eastwood used in one of the Dirty Harry movies to kill even more hundreds. In other words, it's a badass pistol and deserves to be in the game.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:38, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

On a badass scale of 1 to 10, it hits 11. Need more be said? [[User:Mcguinness]]

:Bronson used a Wildey in Death Wish 3, not an Automag-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
::Damm. I guess we now need a Wildey in this Game too so we can dual wield a Wildey and an Automag in each hand.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:07, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
:That would be pretty bitchin'. The Wildey is a huge pistol, even to a guy like me (when I hold a S&W M500 it doesn't look that big), so duel wielding would probably be a bad idea-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:56, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Old or not, this thing is unreal when shooting through windshields. Most other guns in-game (including the M4 and AK) take a few shots to punch through, but the Auto Mag can do it in one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:18, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

:That sounds awesome! I gotta get this game. :) -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:56, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

::For sure. The gunfights in it are unreal, one bank heist mission clearly takes influence from the shootout scene in Heat, and it's arguably just as intense. Also, in what other game can you pull off crazy shit like [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ73zqDaXsk this]? --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 03:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

:::Definite five stars on that one. And on a side note, the improved driving physics (especially with sports cars) really make a lot of difference with maneuvers like the reverse 180s you pulled off there. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

==Glock issue==

I believe we should go back to calling the in-game Glock a 17 because it is described as "9mm" in the weapons shops and Little Jacob's car, plus when Johnny calls Jim (TLAD only) for a weapon, he calls the Glock a "9mm". Now, it has been previously mentioned that it should be called a 22 due to the markings, but I think we should go by specifications. If we go by appearances, for example, that means non-Russian made AK-47s (AIMS, Type 56, MpiKM, Zastava M70, etc.) would simply be "AK-47s" as in the ones made in Izhmesh and Tula, and all AR-15 knockoffs would have to be classified as "M16"s or "M4"s rather than Bushmasters, DPMS, Diemaco C7/C8, Rock River Arms, etc. -KLR
:Ok, well if we went on specifications, we wouldn't be able to identify half the weapons in previous GTA games. The 1911s, the M16 w/ 60 round magazines, the over and under shotgun that functions like a pump. All of these would have to be changed if we went by specifications. RockStar obviously based the Glock in the game off of a Glock 22, it is just misidentified as a 9mm. This wouldn't be the first time a weapon was incorrectly referred to in a game. It's the same issue if a revolver fires 7 rounds, when its clearly a 6-shot. It's still the same gun, the makers just screwed up a bit. So we're not going to call this a Glock 17. This issue has been argued to death on several websites. It's based off of a Glock 22, therefore thats what it is, regardless of its "specification". -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:14, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

:A 7 shot revolver is a bad example. I have one and it's called a S&W 686+P-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
::I mean a revolver that is clearly six rounds, like a Colt DS. Often times you'll see that it fired seven rounds in a movie, but it only holds six. This is a common error in movies, when the # of rounds fired doesn't meet the specifications. Like if the Colt DS fired seven rounds, that doesn't automatically mean its a S&W 686+P. See what I'm saying? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 00:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I discovered something sad while discussing this last week. While playing this game with a friend of mine, who considers himself a 'heavy' gamer (whatever the hell that means- i'm NOT a gamer), he referred to the in game glock as a 9mm (though he just said "9"). I corrected him, saying the glock 22 was a .40 caliber pistol. He look at me, and asks, "What the fucks a .40?". Going by this, might I suggest the develepors call it a 9mm because many gamers don't know what a .40 S&W is? Or is my friend just a bigger idiot than i've ever given him credit for?--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 10:56, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

If it says 22 on the slide, it's a 22 whether or not the in-game characters refer to it incorrectly. Simple as that. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 07:49, 18 April 2012 (CDT)

==removed weapon==

on one of the trailers of the lost & damned called meet the gang, find the video on youtube and if u pause at 0:17 theres a spas 12 look alike with an m4 buttstock. probably a removed weapon like the mp5a3 and being replaced by the sawn-off or street sweeper.

its not removed, its also just not a new weapon. its the regular semi auto shotgun with a new stock.

yea in my version all the "combat" shotguns in the vans and stores are the old ones but the one from the cheat codes are ones with an m4 stock. oh and its a mossenberg 590 not a spas -scarecrow

Its a Remington 1100 i believe, but it can also be found in certain places with the M4 stock. Only while Playing Lost and Damned though.

It's like that shotgun that Switek had in Miami Vice (the movie), it can be obtained in TLAD with the advanced gun cheat (486-555-0100)

No its the semi auto from the regular game with a different stock.

==Names==
The names they've chosen for the new weapons crack me up, they're generic to the point of nonsense. "''Assault'' SMG", "''Advanced'' MG", "''Advanced'' Sniper"...

There is only one machine gun, so why did they feel the need to add 'advanced' to the name? And it irritates me how people, gamers usually, refer to sniper rifles simply as "''snipers''", it's like saying "drivers" when you mean "vehicles". --[[Special:Contributions/219.90.213.180|219.90.213.180]] 10:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

==Behind Enemy Lines movie reference==

Did anyone else notice that in the very begginning of the game, Nikko looks and dresses like the Serbian sniper who tries to kill Owen Wilson in ''Behind Enemy Lines''? Nikko is also Serbian.- ArmoredMason619
:Never noticed, but you're right. They are similar in appearance. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
::[http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c257/lostering/untitled10.jpg You're not the only one who noticed]. You can also buy a blue track top from the Russian shop that looks almost identical to the one worn by the sniper in that picture. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 07:03, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

== Awesome page ==

I júst want to say that the images look so cool,they make me think about a computer animated movie.Seriously,if you know anyone who hasnt heard about GTA ever,show him/her this article and ask if its a videogame or animated movie or else.Really,nice job on the pictures.

== Remington 1100 / 11-87 ==
The long barrel, long magazine tube, and the thing along the top of the barrel (I don't know what that's called) all jump out at you and scream "Remington 1100 TAC4". Those are very specific features of a very specific model. To say it's an 11-87 because of the length of the forearm and nothing else ignores A: the features that are only on the 1100 TAC4 and not on any other model, and B: the forearm doesn't even look like a proper Remington forearm. Thoughts? [[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]] 1:53 PM, 2 April 2010

Shotguns aren't my specialty but I believe that thing on top of the barrel is called a "heat shield", that is you are refering to something on the barrel like that of the old Winchester Trench Gun. Am I right? --[[User:Camden Hennis|Camden Hennis]] 14:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

No, it's not a heat shield. A heat shield is perforated sheet metal wrapped around the barrel. The thing I'm talking about, I can't remember what it's called, but it's function is to provide rigidity to the barrel. Revolvers have them too. - PersonOfInterest
:Ribbing? I agree it's a TAC4, this image matches it best. http://img22.imageshack.us/i/1100006.jpg/ - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Is that some kind of 12 gauge stripper clip? - [[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]]
No, just a shell holder--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 15:05, 12 August 2012 (CDT)

==DLC is no longer XBOX360 Exclusive==
As title says, someone need to delete "Xbox360 exclusive" from line "Xbox 360 Exclusive Downloadable Content". I would do that if I could, but without account I can't.
:Done. Thanks for taking the time to mention it. :) --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 16:54, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

==AR-15?==

Anyone else notice that the "M4A1" in the game seems to have a barrel longer than 14.5 in., and that it "steps up" instead of stepping down?
:Looks a bit like the Diemaco C8, with black furniture. --[[User:Sangheili1155|Sangheili1155]] 14:56, 12 August 2012 (CDT)

== CZ 75 ==

Why did someone replace the picture of the lost & the damned cz 75? the first one suited it better.

== Screenshots ==

This page is in urgent need of actual screencaps rather than PR stuff. I'll do my best, and as and when my new PC arrives I should be able to replace PS3 screencaps with higher-quality PC ones. Assuming I can be bothered dealing with signing up to the eighty-three different things PC GTAIV wants you to sign up to before it'll actually save. >:( [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:03, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
:Cool, games like this deserve proper pages. BTW FYI, the M4 has a ''strange'' barrel. See [http://www.freeimagehosting.net/a9432 here]. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:32, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

== Carbine Rifle ==

Whoever wrote in that calling the M4 a Carbine Rifle a contradiction isn't really correct. A rifle can be referred to any long arm that has a rifled barrel. An M4 might be a carbine of a full size M16, but it is also a rifle, so it can be called a rifle or a carbine. It's just a bit weird to say in terms of combinations of words to be called carbine rifle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:01, 9 October 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, that's what I mean by "in the strictest sense." In the strictest sense, "rifle" is a specific class of long gun with defined qualities. In a more general sense, it's anything with a rifled barrel (in an even more general sense, it's anything that ''looks'' like a rifle, which is why you can say things like "laser rifle" in fiction). So, strictly speaking "carbine rifle" is a contradiction, but not more generally speaking. I was rewriting because it used to just say it ''was'' a contradiction, which, as you say, isn't true. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:44, 9 October 2011 (CDT)

Carbine Rifle = Rifle-caliber Carbine. My 2 cents. You may now take shots at me. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:21, 9 October 2011 (CDT)

:But 5.56mm is an intermediate calibre, not a rifle calibre. So if it's that, then it ''is'' a contradiction, har har. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:30, 9 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:The Hunter (2011)

2012-08-12T18:36:41Z

Recon42: /* Unknown Rifle */

There are two other guns in this film.

Jack, the local guide, had a bolt-action hunting rifle, and the other operative appears to have the same bullpup rifle as Martin.

==Unknown Rifle==
Jack Mindy ([[Sam Neill]]) arms himself with an unknown bolt action rifle when Martin comes looking for him. Anyone want to take a crack before I just put it up as unknown? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:27, 11 August 2012 (CDT)
[[Image:Hunter2011_rifle2_01.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack aims his rifle as Martin.]]

From what I can see it looks to be a Winchester Model 70, can't really tell without a shot of the action, but based on the angle of the stock (from what I can see) it seems right--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 13:36, 12 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-08-08T18:37:26Z

Recon42: /* Multiplayer Reveal Trailer */

'''MAIN PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Only ''officially released'' images will be permitted. Leaked images, even if publicised elsewhere, are not permitted. This rule is not negotiable.'''

'''TALK PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Do not post lists of weapons you hope to see in the game. They will be deleted.'''

== The Newest Joke? ==
Why put up a IMFDB page of this game when it looks clearly like a waste of money

Because I am loking forward to this game, and cheevo hunting. Besides I am the only biotic organism that plays CoD for the SP and not the multi (well, except for split-screening with my girlfriend). Anyways, I like Call of Duty, and I think this will be cool, and I cannot wait to see what new weapons they will have. - [[User:1morey]] May 6, 2012 8:58 AM (EST)

Because we hate you, that's why. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:44, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

:And ''he sucks'' and we hate him. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:30, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

Sorry [[User:1morey|1morey]], but you are not the only "biotic organism" who buy CoD only for the SP campaign XD [[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]

I too like to play CoD single player campaigns. I dabbled a little in MP here and there, but don't really understand what all the fuss is about. If only the developers put in as much time and effort into the SP nowadays, like they used too :( --[[User:Ultimagameboy|Ultimagameboy]] 19:12, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks to just be like a space gun... It "resembles" a XM8 and an ACR, but looks like the SCAR from Crysis. It's just a future weapon. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:40, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

To be more specific,it appears to be the Malaysian variant of the XM8,the Malaysian variant has no built in scope like on the ones designed for the U.S Army,but a rail instead.however it has extra features of weapons such as the ACR, which Treyarch probably to give their own artistic touch to make it look unique and futuristic.[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

In the description, someone wrote that it is based on the M41A1 pulse rifle from Aliens. How? Why? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:52, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Call Of Recon: Ghost Ops --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Well, I've given up on the series now that being on top of five grenades when they go off doesn't kill people.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

:Givern how CoD does with real weapons, watching them making up weapons should be eight kinds of hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:10, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

its been confirmed to be set in the year 2025,i would imagine a mixture of real weapons,and Treyarch-created mashups will be included[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

As long as we get (have) to shoot hundreds of rounds full auto at each quadrupedal robot it will apparently be awesome. I hope bullets have no effect on enemies until they suddenly die also. ~ACE

:I don't know, as long as the robots acknowledge being hit, a linebreaker enemy that stops you getting bogged down in one place can be good. ''Resistance: Fall of Man'' had enemies which would use their superior hitpoints (3+ headshots on normal for grunts with the basic rifles) to advance under fire while firing from the hip, which meant they ''didn't'' have to spam grenades at you constantly to stop you staying in one place (also they had Steelheads with guns that shot through walls to help them with that). It actually made the firefights rather more interesting than the headshot = dead standard. Though they at least reacted to being shot (flinched but kept running), it wasn't like ''STALKER'' where enemies were either alive or dead and wouldn't acknowledge any state in between (which in ''Clear Sky'' where they jacked up Bloodsucker HP ridiculously meant you weren't actually sure you were even hurting them).

:In general enemy variety is a huge weakness for modern shooters, since almost everything is 'man with gun.' If they do this ''right'' it could actually have far more varied firefights. Or they'll just have it invincible until you find the glowing rocket launcher Private Dies In An Inconvenient Place dropped, which seems more likely all things considered. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

::Dual wielding Javelins. ~ACE

== Come On ==

There is NOTHING warranting a page for this yet. All of you fanboys need to drop your cocks and have a little patience. Would any IMFDB mods put up with this for any other page or project with the same amount of leaked content, being 1, maybe 2 usable pictures? No way; this whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If there's nothing concrete worth putting on the main page, stick to the Treyarch forums. It's insane how quickly the COD community jumped onto it on IMFDB. It's fucking preposterous to discuss ONE PICTURE for a WHOLE GAME THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED YET. Please, fanboys, calm down, and don't get ahead of yourselves. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Finally someone who agrees with me. --[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I can't disagree [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:18, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

The game has been officially announced, there are several pictures on CallofDuty.com --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:47, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Plus, a trailer is coming out today [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:29, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Trailer released, and I can already see inclusions in the form of the M249. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 19:21, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Weapon Spots ==

Weapon spots from the trailer that I found in the new trailer: at 0:30 there is a M134 Minigun (future-ized) mounted on a four legged combat drone, 0:43 there is a tank drone that appears to have a Metal Storm weapon mounted on its left (our right), 1:09 there is a future pistol (seems unrelated to any real world firearm), 1:11 there is a future-ized XM8, 1:18 there is an M16 (which model can't tell though length suggest it is a full length barrel and has 20 round magazine), 1:27 there what appears to be an M249 SAW (or M240), 1:31 there is a soldier with a balaclava firing a bullpup short barreled weapon that bears resemblance to the QBZ-95, at 1:31 or 1:32 (very easy to miss) there is a soldier being blown away holding an AK variant and by the looks of the handguard and flash hider it is an AN-94, at 1:34 in horseback solders are armed with WWII bolt action rifles, at 1:36 the technical is armed with a Dshk hmg, 1:44 hard to make out but rider on the right has an AK pattern weapon, likely an AK-47 since it looks like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, 1:48 unknown shotgun. That's all I found for now. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 21:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:I have an intuition that the M16 might (and I have empathize this, ''might'') be an A1 variant or a faux XM16 judging solely from silhouette of the upper receiver. The SAW apparently has an Mk 48 Mod 1 styled heat shield and handguard but that doesn't really mean anything, considering how the franchise loves to mix and match different variants. Weapon at 1:32, on the other hand, is ''definitely'' an AN-94. At least in aesthetic terms.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:03, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:: Isn't it "Kriss USA" instead of "TDI" now?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 08:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Possibly, but KRISS ALLCAPS TACTICOOL ARMS is a stupid title and they were TDI first. They only changed it because they've belatedly discovered the mil-spec subgun market is a ghost town if you're not an MP5 and they're only ever going to sell Vectors to mall ninjas. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

==Designated Arguing/Complaining Area==
Before this discussion page turns to chaos like all the other CoD talk pages, let's open up a designated complaint zone. I know many people want to offer their negative opinions about the game, so if you don't have any real discussion topics please post in subheadings here. Hopefully this will allow people who want to actually discuss the game rather than arguing or whining to avoid these comments and have an actual discussion.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

===What is this going to be like===
I have looked at the trailer several times. This is how I think the games success is going to be. A: It will be a huge hit and sell millions of copies like all other COD games or B: It is going to be a complete and total disaster and there will never be another COD game made again in our lifetimes. I find from what I learned from the plot line details that has been released that it is going to feature what the first Black Ops did, except that the flashbacks will be set in the 1980's and the present 2025. I am wondering how Treyarch is going to do that. This will be a very curious COD game that I will be wondering about UNTIL it comes out.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 21:58, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

===Wow...===
I'll start off by saying the obvious- this game looks stupid. I mean, why jump from the 60's to the 2020's? I could see the futuristic idea that they were trying for, but this looks like a Ghost Recon rip-off. I have just lost what little respect I had for Treyarch. As more details become availiable, I might change my mind, but first impressions are not good. As with any game, if it is fun I will play it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

I've lost respect for the Call of Duty franchise after Infinity Ward broke up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

After at least one failed Soviet aggression in the late 60s, failed invasion of the Eastcoast US, ''failed'' (third time's the charm, right?) invasion of continental Europe within the last three games alone, you'd think the US at least would just get used to getting attacked on a major scale by this point.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:09, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:Well they have, it's pretty clear from MW2 that Russia tries to nuke the US so often in this universe that they didn't even bother with a counter-launch since that would just encourage them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:11, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I can't believe how generic they managed to make their new take on the series. Evil robots, mechs on four legs and choppers with unnecesserly many features. It's basically the same as every futuristic game. On top of it the game looks awful, name doesn't make sense, it looks more over-the-top than MW3. Could Treyarch have mistaken May 1 for April 1? This either is a joke, or will become one.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 05:46, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

What the hell were Treyarch thinking? I was seriously hoping too see what happened to Hudson, Weaver and Mason in Operation Charybdis and maybe if we would get to see how Price started his career. It is often better to go back to basics than too go forward complications. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:What made you so sure that Price was going to be in this game?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:45, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:Modern Warfare is set in a different continuity, and they even wanted to spin it off into an entirely separate franchise. The Call of Duty label was stuck on by Activision as a way of marketing it. Price won't be appearing because he doesn't exist. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:From what I've read on CoD wiki and heard, 1/3 of the game will take place in the 80s and the rest in 2025--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 09:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

: @ The Wierd It - the 'intel' at the ending of the final story mission of Black Ops suggest that Mason is being hunted by an SAS team in South Africa lead by a young operative called 'Jonathan' which many people have taken to mean a very young Captain Price [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::I think it's very unlikely that they'll have any crossovers between the WaW/BO and MW universes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:47, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
::I know that. I'm wondering where the leap in logic came that took people from one of the more common first names in the English language to "this is obviously meant to be Price". [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:36, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well, it's positively rational compared to the kind of logical gymnastics that some rumour threads get. "I performed a series of random mathematical actions on this Valve press release and made the number 3! Episode 3 confirmed!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:59, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
The first thing I thought when I saw the trailer was that this game was CoD attempting to piggyback on the whole idea of Metal Gear Solid 4. Then I saw the horse sequences and realized I was actually watching an Uncharted 3 trailer. --[[User:K|K]] 19:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I honestly like the way it's going now. I liked Black Ops better than Modern Warfare because it went to a setting not commonly covered (especially in big-budget titles) and had some more interesting segments than just running through an urban environment shooting dozens of AK-toting terrorists or Russians. I'm interested in seeing how Black Ops II progresses now that they're able to create their own technology (no worries of anachronisms or errors). It's a refreshing change of pace from generic World War II and modern day "realistic" shooters. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

@ The Wierd It - Ok mate, fair enough I might have jumped the gun. But on what we know from the intel in Black Ops and the character of Price in the MW franchise, ("promising SAS solider named Jonathan" also referred to as Price in the french Black Ops) - basing it on that knowledge, see why I jumped the gun? However, they brought Woods back for this one, when we were all sure he was dead, what's too say a very young Price won't be featuring in this game? [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:I still love COD4, great game, but now I refuse to play anything after it. I did play through MW3's story to see the ending, and the MW series' ''story'' is pretty good, but the 2 and 3's gameplay is soooooo bad. In every single mission except one, you start with a reflex sight on your gun in MW3. The other mission you have a pistol. I'm gonna follow this page just to see how bad they can make it. I find it really funny how Halo and Mass Effect have guns (and tech) that are more realistic than MW2/BO/MW3/BO2. Hell, not just more realistic, Halo and ME's weapons ''actually make sense''. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:23, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

It looks like the US got some help from the Combine with those 4 propeller gunships they have. Maybe we might see an AR1 or a Strider? :D [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:12, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

===My two cents on the matter===
Ok... well, first off, I'll admit that I am a fan of CoD. But from the first glance of this trailer, I think that Activision needs it's old management back, and fire the current management along with Robert Kotick.

Seriously Robert? This is what Black Ops II is going to be? A pseudo-futuristic first person shooter with player-driven choices thrown into the mix?

I was expecting that the next Call of Duty was going to be the inevitable Black Ops II (and if not that, then maybe something different for a change like making the game about a war that many people have forgotten about, like World War I or the Korean War, cause World War II and Vietnam get WAY too much attention). but I was expecting it to dive into details about Black Ops operations in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s when the United States got involved in conflicts during those years AFTER the Vietnam war (a.k.a., Grenada, Panama, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Gulf War I, Bosnian conflicts, etc.). But really, THIS is the best idea that your workers came up with? Some cyberwar between China and the United States?

Ok, from what I've read, there will be some throwbacks to the 1980s in this game, but adding in player-driven choices which affect the outcome of the game is a bad idea. I play Call of Duty for mindless entertainment and for shooting things, not to play over and over for making different moral decisions every time to get all the endings of the game! If I wanted a first person shooter with that theme, I'd go play Fallout 3. (Speaking of which, do you think we're really that stupid to notice that you guys stole "The Vault" name?)
: A video game uses the word "Vault" to refer to a location. Must have been stolen from Fallout, since they invented....the English language? [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

As for the weapons... you guys do realize that MANY of these weapons are either still on the drawing board, in the prototype stages, canceled (*cough* XM8 *cough*), or being tested in LIMITED numbers, and that we might not be seeing ANY of them in any future war by the year 2025... right?

it isn't even an xm8, i don't know how it could be a wrong choice for a gun if the gun itself isn't actually a real concept of any kind, its just a futuristic-looking gun designed by treyarch, and what would firing bobby kotick actually do it wouldn't change any of the games because he doesn't make any desicions regarding them, he worries about the money side e.g. the budget, the advertisement.
also the creators of fallout didn't actually invent the word vault so i don't really know what the pointless rant was for.--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 02:48, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

In the game it's called an M8A1. It's definitely the XM8. It's Treyarch doing what they do. Being creative with things that shouldn't have creativity added. [[User:DJCDavisDubstep|DJCDavisDubstep]] 16:25, 10 July 2012 (PDT)

Well... maybe I might give this game a chance when it comes out. But seriously, if this is what all future Call of Duty games are going to follow from this point onward, then I will stick with the older ones instead. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:20, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

Hey, thanks to the video game industry, one would think that there may be a chance that the project will get cancelled like many games before it... unfortunately since the Call Of Duty franchise pops out games like a mother rabbit the future seems bleak...
--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 01:44, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure the game will still have all the mindless shooter nonsense that makes them millions and spawns dozens of poor imitations, but the addition of branching storylines and sandbox gameplay at least makes things more interesting. The Call of Duty formula stagnated with Modern Warfare 2, as it showed that it was little more than repeating the same basic formula with minor changes that add less new content than the average DLC pack. Black Ops at least tried to break from the mold a bit with the helicopter sequences (a throwback to the old games' vehicle segments) and the protagonist not suddenly losing his voice when you look through his eyes. I'm proud of Treyarch for trying to actually do something different and make an interesting game instead of following Infinity Ward and Activision's lead and just making a clone of Black Ops with some new weapons and tweaking the multiplayer. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

== M16A1? ==

Link to image

(403 error)

also the futuristic M4: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120502191412/callofduty/images/5/53/20120502-084241.jpg

The 'futuristic' M4 in the link above appears to be based upon the GR4 G26 airsoft rifle manufactured by Guay & Guay. Shown here for comparison: http://www.titano-shopping.com/immagini/Prodotti/Big/GR4_G26_DST

Yes it looks like that... It's not the first time CoD takes from airosft the looks for the guns

I wouldn't be surprised if they just used that futuristic looking gun for the photoshoot for the poster and it doesn't appear at all in the game itself. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:32, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

All those links are broken. Also I saw the recent trailer and the sillohuotte images of the M16 does look like an A1 from the handguard but the pop up trailer on gametrailers.com called it a classic M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:51, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

:Classic? It was an M4 before there were any M4s. That's a hipster M4 if there ever was one... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:43, 5 May 2012 (CDT)

== Rename ==

Shouldn't the page be renamed to "Call of Duty: Black Ops II". With the Roman numerals, because that's what all official material lists it as. - [[User:1morey]] May 5, 2012 8:59 AM (EST)

:Naw, since that would put it out of order when they inevitably make Black Ops 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:08, 6 May 2012 (CDT)

::A note could be made in the first paragraph though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:36, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

== AK variant during horse scene ==

Recently revealed production images of Black Ops 2 not only show how seriously Treyarch is taking the precise animation of horses but also that the AK variants they are carrying are actually mo-capped TOYS:
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2012/05/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-II-Horse-Motion-Capture-2.jpg

:Ha, that's the most obvious airsoft horse I've ever seen. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:40, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

== Bulldog Assault Rifle ==

Trailer from BO2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr0Z3RsOmlo

looks like the assault rifle from distric 9 use by the bad guys

:Looks like a futuristic QB rifle variant to me.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 06:34, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

::The name "Type 25" has been mentioned. Could that be it?

:::Most likely is. In fact, it almost definitely is, but we can't actually confirm that until the game comes out. Also, remember to sign your posts. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 05:46, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Preview ==

A preview mentions the Type 95 and Keltec KSG by name. Will wait for screens.
http://www.nowgamer.com/xbox-360/xbox-360-previews/1388343/black_ops_2_campaign_eyeson_with_two_levels_protect_potus_singapore.html

Well hopefully it's the real Type 95 and not the Type 97 misnamed [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Black Ops 2 Behind the Scenes E3 trailer ==

The new Behind the Scenes BO2 trailer released at E3 shows a couple of guns, most notably a sniper rifle at 3:18
Link to trailer: http://youtu(dot)be/GElKpJLvKLc
:2:08, what looks like a Galil SAR, 2:41, possible MM1 grenade launcher [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:37, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

In another behind the scenes trailer, there's a KRISS Vector.--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 15:03, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== There's a reason the Vector is called a K10 ==

Apparently, at SHOT Show 2011, a newer, improved, slightly more compact variant of the Vector with a telescoping stock was revealed, called the K10.
Here's the source:
:http://www.defensereview.com/kriss-k10-super-v-vector-xsmg-submachine-gun-smg-product-improvedupgraded-multi-caliber-subgun-for-special-operations-forces-sof-and-close-quarters-battle-cqb-applications-shot-show-2011-phot/

It does look slightly different from the Vector, though:
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_1.jpg
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_2.jpg
--[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:45, 6 July 2012 (PST)

== LAPD Shotgun ==

I don't really think that we can call the fact that the LAPD officers are using the KSG incorrect, since the game takes place in the future. Apparently in the time the game takes place, we will have flying, fighting robots, so it's not too hard to imagine that the LAPD could have switched shotguns. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:02, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:48, 6 July 2012 (PST)

::Well after talking to some cops, it really depends on the department to say what an officer can have in his car. A lot can get their own personal shotguns in their car after qualifying with it. Not sure about a KSG, but it's possible if approved [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:22, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Yeah, it would probably be even more likely to be in use since the game takes place in the future. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:25, 10 July 2012 (PST)

== The Unknown Shotgun ==

The unknown shotgun is actually the Storm PSR (the ridiculous X-Ray Railgun thing), if you look closely at Harper's vest the white dot is from the scope, and it's also been stated by Treyarch that the Storm PSR has three barrels.... --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 21:20, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

== Gameplay footage ==

Well folks, here's a video from E3 showcasing the extended gameplay of Black Ops 2, and what might be expected in the game when it's released: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTtsn2Srm3E] --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 in segment taking place in the 80's? ==

It seems to me that part of the trailer the AN-94 appears in takes place in one of the 80's segments of the game. I shouldn't be surprised, but seriously, this seems like an even bigger anachronism than usual, even though it's not. Anyone else thinking the same? --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 2:57, 10 July 2012 (PST)

:You never know just because it was seen in the desert doesn't mean its in the 80's segment of the game.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

::That's not what I meant, I just meant if it was part of the main 2025 story line of the game, there probably would have been '''some''' kind of future technology. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 3:14, 10 July 2012 (PST)

Oh yeah, it'll be anachronistic, no doubts there. This is Treyarch, after all. Do you think you'll be seeing anything (non-explosive) from the 20th Century in the future setting? I don't.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:28, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I have no doubt there'll be TONS of anachronisms in the 80's parts. I think the QBZ-97 was in the future part, so that's one thing from the 20th century in the future setting. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:41, 10 July 2012 (PST)

::I did not see it, are you talking about the fictional Type 25, or did i miss it?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:46, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Go on the page, there'll be a QBZ-97, and then it'll say "Type 25" somewhere else on the page. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 5:24, 10 July 2012 (PST)

==SCAR-L :)==

http://k31.kn3.net/D8EA00866.png

Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QP3_8y8uzk

:I'm afraid the picture link doesn't work, but the rifle that appears 1:45 is most definitely a SCAR-H. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:05, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

== IMFDB's Fault ==

Does anyone think that the fact that this game takes place in the future is partly our (IMFDB's users) fault. I bet someone working for Treyarch saw the IMFDB page for Black Ops and how the anachronistic guns are criticized, and thought, "We're anachronistic, are we? Well let's see about being anachronistic when the game takes place over a decade in the future!" --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:46, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

That's.... something to think about for awhile and if they did then either 3arc will be more accurate with the guns or make the guns worst than the first time.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I don't know why it's such a big deal to everyone, just treat the "game" as a "game" and play it; there are too many over-opinionated comments with the words I DON'T LIKE IT, WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE IT LIKE I WANTED IT!!! WAAAAHHH
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 16:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

To be fair you do know where you are right? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 17:12, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Nah, I highly doubt that anyone at Treyarch or Activision has taken the time to read up about their videogames being featured on this site, and the legit or unnecessary complaints people have made about their past games. IMFDB has been a growing name in the film industry for a while now and this site is often browsed and looked into by those who have made or acted in the films featured on here and many of the administrators (the ones who work in the industry) can vouch for that. But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

You do realize that I meant this as a joke, right? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:07, 21 July 2012 (CDT)

"But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that."

I see where you're getting at, but I want to make a point. I was hoping for a bunch of weapons to be in CoJ 3. And more than a handful of them were in the game (or a variant of the weapon). Just to make this clear, I am an admin for the CoJ Wiki, and we have connections to Techland. And I had posted links to the IMFDB CoJ pages on the fan page for CoJ on Facebook (Which Techland frequents).
I was hoping for a Skorpion, Benelli M4, SW Model 29, FN FAL, M72 LAW, and FN Five-seveN. They were in the game.
I was hoping for a Uzi (Instead, a Mini Uzi), A Sig-Sauer (Instead a SIG Mosquito), Remington 700 ( Instead a Remington M24), MP5 variant (The game had a MP5A2), AR-15 variant (The game had a HK416), Mossberg 500 variant (The game had a Mossberg 500A Field Gun). Now I'm not saying Techland read the page and said "Ph hey, this 1morey guy wants to see these weapons, let's answer his request." That's not what I am saying at all, but I wouldn't doubt they read the page, and used the list as "inspiration". Another user had wanted a Steyr AUG A3. That was a cut weapon.

Anyways, back on topic. I don't doubt some video game companies use this site as inspiration, but if I had to pick one, I would say Infinity Ward, EA, and Treyarch probably don't look at this site at all, I think they just watch a bunch of movies, or see what other games have. - [[User:1morey]] August 7, 2012 3:10 PM (EST)
I mean if this isn't a coincidence, I don't know what is.

== Multiplayer Reveal Trailer ==

The new trailer for the multiplayer of BO2 just went up, showing a plethora of new weapons: -killerkirill, 19:13 GMT, 07/08/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrOpWYsp3L8&feature=g-u-u

:Well, the good thing at least is that the main page will be considerably shorter and easier to maintain. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 14:28, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Taurus Raging Bull/Dan Wesson???, barrett/steyr sniper?/ Mechem NTW?, SRM Arms Model 1212/1216?, Remington MSR? and lots, lots more. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:04, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

This game is going to be worse than Crysis for people coming up with contrived "hybrid" explanations for the guns. That shotgun does look pretty close to a SRM Arms Model 1216 though, even looks like the player is correctly rotating the magazine very 4 shots, never thought I would see that in a game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:25, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

i have played it safe and included the dsr-50 sniper rifle in the page, source= http://mp1st.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Screen-Shot-2012-08-07-at-1.58.00-PM-600x331.png

yellow sniper looks like the Remington MSR, an Ashbury ASW338LM, or an FN SCAR - SSR Mk.20 Mod.0 / Sniper Support Rifle with modifications including bolt action.

--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 23:30, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Looking through screenshots in this article: [url=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/362018/39-black-ops-2-multiplayer-screens-from-the-trailer/?page=1#top_banner] 
-LSAT LMG 
-AN-94 
-QCW-05 known as "Chicom QCB" 
-Kriss K-10 
-H&K XM8 is known as the "M8A1", this is very clearly seen in screencap 17. 
-"Ballista" bolt-action sniper in screencap 18- has an extremely similar first-person appearance to BF3's [[MKEK JNG-90]] 
-FN Mk.48 
-"PDW-5.7" in screencap 12, quite likely a [[P90]] variant, it looks like one, 50 round mag, plus the P90 is a PDW in 5.7 mm. Seen in pic 32 in 3rd person. 
-[[SRM Arms 1200 Series Shotguns|M1216 Shotgun]] 
-Taurus Raging Bull in screencap 12- distinctive sights and red backstrap. 
-Unknown in screencap 20 
-Screencap 25 is possibly also the "Ballista"/possible JNG-90? Looks similar but too small. 
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 13:13, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

It's the FN Ballista, a new-ish rifle designed to compete with the MSR--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 13:37, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:21 Jump Street (2012)

2012-08-05T18:53:28Z

Recon42:

Hmm, this could be the first film to feature the Gen4 Glock 17? Or some pages already have it? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:35, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

They all look like Gen 3 Glocks to me. *EDIT* I stand corrected the one in close up is a Gen 4 one, or at least the slide is anyway. I thought the Gen 4 Glocks had different serrations in the slide but after using some of my googlemagic I have discovered that they have the same serrations as previous generations. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 09:20, 4 November 2011 (CDT)
:I think you're thinking of the RTF model they made before the Gen4. The serrations looked like boomerangs. http://www.discountgunsales.com/glock-17-rtf-pr-3762.html --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 09:31, 4 November 2011 (CDT)
::Yup that was the one I was thinking of :)--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:13, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== ==
The four barrel derringer used in the first car chase was a COP .357, and there was a MP5K PDW used in the final chase. There was a two toned Desert Eagle and I THINK there was S&W 500 with either a 102 or 165mm barrel used by one of the biker guys in the hotel scene.

--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 22:15, 17 March 2012 (CDT)

There's a Desert Eagle used in the apartment shootout at the end. Had a stainless frame and black style--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 13:53, 5 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:List of weapons used by U.S. Armed Forces

2012-07-20T11:35:19Z

Recon42: /* Colt Rail Gun */ new section

Thank you to whoever created this page, I've thought a lot about trying to do a page like this myself, since a lot of people on this site like to point out "That isn't what a solder/officer in such and such military of law enforcement agency would use in real life." Maybe if this page proves to be popular we could do other pages about other agencies. --[[User:AndCA|AndCA]] 22:06, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Your very welcome :) everything on that page took about a month to make due to my schedule (and I'm only 15). I am planning on doing a page about the British and the Russian armed forces but I want to have this done first. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 22:17, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I didn't know the Marines have started using the SCAR H [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:23, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I may have gotten some incorrect info during my research, I'll look into it. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 22:31, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Thank You for doing this, the fact that you are fifteen only makes me have more respect for you.--[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 23:29, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Mate, big respect for you for doing this! Well done! If you need any info on what the British Armed Forces do, please let me know, I can help with that!! Again, proper nice job mate!! [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

::As far as I know the only use by the USMC of the SCAR platform was a variant of the 'L' model during trials for the M27. The H&K 416 was chosen. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:26, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Doesn't the Navy also use the M16A3 variant? [[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] 6:37, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Yes they do, my Seabee buddy's issued weapon is an M16A3 with a 203.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:56, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Are we doing out of service rifles and shotguns as well? Wicked wikipedia gives a complete list if that helps he page.-[[User:Balin21|Balin21]] 12:30, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Of course. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:33, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== YES!!! ==

THIS IS AN AWESOME IDEA!!! One that I have been wanting to do for a while. Gets my 100% stamp of approval! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:33, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

Glad you like it I just hope this gets done soon so I can work on my next idea. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 08:55, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

When this one is done, how about one for the British Armed Forces, SAS and suchlike? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:25, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

I have been thinking about one for the British I may do one like that next. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 11:32, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:If you do, don't forget they recently adopted the LMT 7.62 as their new Sniper rifle/DMR [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:47, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
::That they do, but I don't think we have a page for it since it's not shown up in media yet. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:59, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== SDM-R picture ==

I'm looking for a good shot of the Army's Squad Designated Marksman Rifle, but I can't find one. Can anyone help me out? --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 10:27, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:I'm reasonably sure it's not that different from the M16A4, aside from subtle differences in the rails (DD M4Rail rather than KAC M5) and differences to the barrel which are hidden by the rails. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:27, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:Never mind, then; I'll simply remove it on the grounds that's it's not dissimilar from M16A4 model. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 11:33, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:The SDM-R was a very limited trial program and it was only fielded to one unit before it was canceled and/or withdrawn from service. The SAM-R met a similar end when the Marines opted for the Mark 12 Mod 1 instead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:34, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== P226R ==

Don't the SEALs use the 226 with a rail now? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:01, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Page name ==

Should the "firearms" be changed to "weapons", as there are several things on here that I would not call firearms, such as the grenades, mines and launchers. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:15, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

I say go for it if accuracy is the case [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:22, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== USMC SOCOM ==

Should the listing of USMC SOCOM be changed to USMC MARSOC since MARSOC is the branch of the USMC that is a part of SOCOM. I think USMC SOCOM just sounds odd because it describes the USMC ''branch'' of SOCOM. This is just my opinion, what do you guys think? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:22, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
:Done.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:59, 19 July 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:00, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Magazine capacities ==

Great idea Mr.Ice. Anyway, is it OK if I add the various magazine capacities for the firearms with the caliber in parentheses beside it?
:It is already there... Under "Capacity"... And sign your post. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:04, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Colt Rail Gun ==

I think it's been adopted very recently to replace the Kimber ICQB, should it go on the page?--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 06:35, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Hitman: Absolution

2012-07-02T21:07:26Z

Recon42: /* "Bartoli Custom" */ new section

in this screenshot you can see a rifle againts the wall, possibly a G3 and what looks like a USP in 47's hands

[http://i.imgur.com/lgn2H.jpg]

source here [http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/first-hitman--absolution-scree/1218840] [[User:Sike|Sike]] 07:18, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

:The rifles against the are FAL-type rifles, not G3s. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:06, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

I thought it was an FNC. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:52, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
:It's too big to be a FNC, the receiver and 20 round 7.62x51mm magazine are from a FAL-type rifle. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:06, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

::With the angle of the magazine against the receiver, it doesn't look like a FAL-type rifle. It does appear to have the straight magazine, implying 7.62 Nato. The stock looks a bit like a G36, and the upper receiver looks a bit like the AR-18, so I'm going to have to go out on a limb and suggest the AR-16, the 7.62 version of the AR-18. Probably totally wrong, but its worth a try. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 06:57, 21 June 2011 (CDT)
:::It's a FAL Para. Man it's so nice to be treated as a weapon-illiterate retard. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:15, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown SIG Sauer pistol ==

If the game is taking it's cues from the earlier games then the SIG Sauer will most likely end up being a P220. I can't wait for this game. It looks fantastic. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:32, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

Same here.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 20:45, 25 January 2012 (CST)

== H&K Pistol ==

After watching the 20 minute gameplay video of Absolution, I have some doubts that the pistol shown in the video (and trailer) is a USP. My main concern is that this pistol does not seem have a thumb safety (on either side), which to my knowledge all USPs have. I think this is might be a [[Heckler & Koch P2000]].

I've added two images for further discussion.

[[Image:Vlcsnap-2011-10-13-21h34m03s184.jpg|400px|thumb|none|]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-2011-10-13-21h32m32s7.jpg|400px|thumb|none|]]

:It's a Taurus PT 24/7, compare this to the screen caps. I'm changing it on the page right now.
:[[Image:Taurus 247.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Taurus 24/7-40BP - .40 S&W]]
:[[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:29, 14 October 2011 (CDT)

::I can definitely agree with this. Good job.--[[User:Southpaws|Southpaws]] 13:53, 14 October 2011 (CDT)
:::Edited the text a bit, added screenshot.--[[User:Southpaws|Southpaws]] 14:10, 14 October 2011 (CDT)

== Hardballers ==

Did anyone else notice that the hardballers seem to fire with the hammer up and no cycling?- Qtrain.

:it seems they to in a recent trailer[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzTHY3eiWVs&feature=g-u-u]--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 15:21, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

== Bartoli Custom ==

The Bartoli pistol looks more like the Tanfoglio or some other variant of CZ75. The "low" slide, shape of handle, grips, safety, etc. totally reminiscent of Tanfoglio/EAA Witness. And "Bartoli" sounds like something italian, so I think it's Tanfoglio, not a 1911.
Also compensator together with a sound suppressor looks oddly.

I agree. That's definitely not a 1911. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 23:04, 30 May 2012 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIc0DSbNfyQ

There's an RPG and maybe an MP7 in there that I know of for sure. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 05:40, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

Yep seen them, also i think i spotted an m4a1 Carbine used by one of The Saints on the left, a H & K G36 and a H & K UMP heres a picture:

[[File:NunswithGuns.jpg]]

--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 06:46, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

Should the guns on the Nuns trailer be capped? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:00, 2 July 2012 (CDT)

== "Bartoli Custom" ==

Is it just me or is it more like a CZ75 SP01 than a custom 1911 based on the frame, safety and slide?--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 16:07, 2 July 2012 (CDT)

Talk:7 Seconds

2012-06-30T08:59:09Z

Recon42:

Cromix: The Reck Miami 92F blank firing gun was mistaken for a Beretta 92FS Inox, I corrected that.
I own the exact same blank gun both in black and nickel finish. The differences in details are very clear. The one used in the movie is not a Beretta.

==Unknown Shotgun==
Before editing the page i wanted to post what i think the shotgun is and allow it to be reviewed.
::Nope, the handguard placement eliminates the Hatsan. NO Escorts have that handguard configuration. and SIGN your posts
Could maybe be a H&R Pardner Pump based on the shape of the receiver?--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 03:58, 30 June 2012 (CDT)

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
[[File:AimGuard.jpg|thumb|none|500px| My choice: The Hatsan Escort AimGuard.]]
[[File:7 Seconds 2005 Shotgun (4).jpg|thumb|none|500px| Note the shape of the receiver as well as the hole in the ejection port if you look closely despite the handguard placement.]]
[[File:7 Seconds 2005 Shotgun (6).jpg|thumb|none|500px| This view shows the sling mount and magazine tube extremely similar to the shotgun above.]]
[[File:7 Seconds 2005 Shotgun (7).jpg|thumb|none|500px| Frontal view.]]

Talk:7 Seconds

2012-06-30T08:58:47Z

Recon42:

Cromix: The Reck Miami 92F blank firing gun was mistaken for a Beretta 92FS Inox, I corrected that.
I own the exact same blank gun both in black and nickel finish. The differences in details are very clear. The one used in the movie is not a Beretta.

==Unknown Shotgun==
Before editing the page i wanted to post what i think the shotgun is and allow it to be reviewed.
::Nope, the handguard placement eliminates the Hatsan. NO Escorts have that handguard configuration. and SIGN your posts
Could maybe be a H&R Pardner Pump based on the shape of the receiver?--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 03:58, 30 June 2012 (CDT)Recon42

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
[[File:AimGuard.jpg|thumb|none|500px| My choice: The Hatsan Escort AimGuard.]]
[[File:7 Seconds 2005 Shotgun (4).jpg|thumb|none|500px| Note the shape of the receiver as well as the hole in the ejection port if you look closely despite the handguard placement.]]
[[File:7 Seconds 2005 Shotgun (6).jpg|thumb|none|500px| This view shows the sling mount and magazine tube extremely similar to the shotgun above.]]
[[File:7 Seconds 2005 Shotgun (7).jpg|thumb|none|500px| Frontal view.]]

User:Recon42

2012-06-23T11:05:47Z

Recon42:

About me:

I'm a 14 year old from Belfast, Northern Ireland. I have a bit of experience with military firearms such as the FN GPMG and SA80A2 variants and currently own a Saiga 12 (Technically my uncle's, but I saved up and paid for it, he's got it registered under his licence until I'm old enought to own a firearms licence). I have also shot unknown makes of AR-15 (straight pull bolt-action and semi auto) as well as a WASR 10/63 AK-47. My favourite brands are CZ, S&W, Ruger and anything made by Izhmash. I love classic looking firearms with blued finish and wooden grips. Hoping to join either British Army or Irish Army Rangers when I leave high school.

Firearms I hope to own:

Rifles;

1. Romanian AKM in 5.45 x 39, it's still got the classic look and reliability, but also has the built in foregrip to make controlling it a lot easier.

2. M1A, .308 power and legendary accuracy? Yes please! I'll take a SAGE kit for mine.

3. Ruger Mini-14, excellent rifle, should be great to use and a nice little brother to the M1A.

4. CZ 550 Ultimate hunting rifle, MOA accuracy guaranteed at 600 yards and a real looker, need I say anything else?

5. SKS, Cheap and cheerful with a great feel to it.

6. M1 Garand, a .30-06 is always good to have, even better if it's semi-auto.

7. Vz 58 military sporter, my personal favourite rifle ever made, just as reliable as an AK with better looks and is even simpler to use.

8. Dragunov SVD with PSO-1 scope, Russian Classic and the 7.62 x 54R makes this a great deer rifle.

9. Steyr AUG A3, would be a semi-auto only, but I love the sleek bullpup stock with the bulky rail system, gives it a distinctive look that I can't get enough of.

10. AR-15 carbine, dunno what parts yet, but I'm going to build one from scratch.

11. FN FAL, A classic L1A1 would be great, but I've heard the DSA 58 has some great accuracy.

12. An AR-10, LMT makes a few great ones and I'm a sucker for British Army weapons, so a civilian L129A1 is what I'm wanting.

13. Last, but certainly not least, a good old Ruger 10/22. So many customization options and cheap ammo make this a definite must have.

Shotguns;

1. Remington 870, one of the best out there.

2. Mossberg 500, if the 870 isn't the best, then this sure is.

3. CZ Sporting 12 guage, great skeet shooter.

4. CZ 712, semi-auto with great looks and functionality.

5. Benelli M3, pump action and semi, great gun.

Handguns;

1. CZ 97 B wooden grips, .45 and an overall great pistol.

2. CZ 75 with wooden grips, makes a great little brother to the 97 B.

3. CZ 52, if you couldn't tell, I love CZ. 7.62 x 25 Tokarev and usually about £150-250 to import to N.I.

4. Makarov, if there's an AK 47 in pistol form, it's this.

5. VZ 61 Skorpion, I always loved the style of this as a sporting pistol, would have to be .32 ACP though because I love the curved magazine look of it.

6. Para G.I. 1911, classic handgun and you can't go wrong with a 1911.

7. S&W Model 39, always loved SW autos.

8. S&W Model 37 Airweight, great carry gun.

9. S&W Model 29, 'Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?' Not the most powerful anymore, but still a great revolver and hits like a truck.

Favourite military weapons:

1. Vz 58, explained above.

2. M249 SAW, get me one with the rail system, a grippod foregrip, 100 round cloth ammo bag, Aimpoint M4 and collapsable stock and I'm in.

3. AK-74M, 5.45 is one helluva round and can do major damage when it yaws, it's got the heritage too.

4. L85A2, after working out the kinks it's a great rifle and is extremely accurate.

5. FN2000S, love the look of the F2000 and the rails and carrying handle just make this version my overall favourite.

6. AUG A3, amazing rifle, accurate, reliable and plenty of mounting points for any attachments you want to put on it.

7. FN MAG, been in service for about 60 years for a reason.

8. MEU SOC, a great looking 1911.

9. Norwegian G36A2, love that thing.

10. SG550, based on an AK, but fixes the accuracy problems without losing any reliability and more modular.

11. Vektor CR-21, a usually unknown rifle that a lot of people don't know, but it is a great rifle, bullpup 5.56 with 35 or 50 round magazines and uses the AK system.

12. L129A1, an AR-10 with 0.3 MOA accuracy and 20 rounds a magazine makes this a fav of mine.

13. HK416-N, 16" barrel and great reliability, I'd take one.

User:Recon42

2012-06-23T10:41:54Z

Recon42: Created page with "About me: I'm a 14 year old from Belfast, Northern Ireland. I have a bit of experience with military firearms such as the FN GPMG and SA80A2 variants and currently own a Saiga 1..."

Talk:Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team

2012-06-23T09:54:38Z

Recon42: /* Can't be a Glock */

== Can't be a Glock ==

What part of this gun even remotely LOOKS like a Glock? I just stumbled on this page and looked. How is this in anyway resemble a Glock? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:23, 22 June 2012 (CDT)

The frame appears to be quite similar, and it appears to have a glock 18 styled fire selector on the slide as well as the same kind of slide serrations.--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 04:54, 23 June 2012 (CDT)Recon42

Talk:Heckler & Koch HK416 rifle series

2012-06-22T16:13:23Z

Recon42: /* RIS */

== Additional Variants ==
[[Image:HK416 current.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416 D10RS with 10.4 inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

[[Image:HK416C.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416C ultra-compact carbine with 9" barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

[[Image:HK417 Prototype.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK417 Prototype utilizing [[G3]] magazines - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

== Discussion ==

"See Also

* M4A1 Firearm from which the HK416 was derived. "
As far as i know the 416/417 rifles are based on the M16/AR15 series ONLY in looks and are using similar interiors like the G36
:Utter bullshit you are spewing there as even H&K admits publically that the M416 is simply an improved M4A1 carbine. The gas piston system may possibly be adapted from that of a G36 to work on an M4 but that is all. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:50, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
:::And the gas piston on the G36 was derived from the AR-18. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)
::The HK 416 WAS meant to be a improved M4A1 from the get go!

They brought on board Larry Vickers a former Delta Force operative to help design the HK416. And it was always intended to be an improved M4A1. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:28, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

== HK 416c ==

someone who has an idea of the engine of imfdb.org has to add the new HK 416c
http://www.heckler-koch.com/HKWebText/detailProd/1928/475/4/19
at least the pictures would be great to upload!!

It should probably be in a movie first...but yeah cool design.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 15:56, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

If it was used in a movie or video game. If not, then no. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:54, 3 December 2011 (CST)

== M27 IAR ==

Are there any differences between the normal HK416 and the M27 IAR, or that's just the U.S. Army name of the gun, like the M1014 is the M4 Super 90's ?? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 03:26, 20 August 2011 (CDT)
:I think it's a HK416 with a longer barrel and handguard. Some guys in the U.S. Military (I think the Marines) got the okay from the high-ups or whoever to get these under the guise of new "SAWs" (Squad Automatic Weapons) but the Marines actually use them as assault rifles, lol. I think that's how the story goes, I just remembered it off the top of my head, shows you how much the U.S. Military wants HK416s.

:[[Image:H&K M27 IAR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch M27 IAR]]
:[[Image:Hk416-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 14.5 inch barrel]]
:- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:40, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

:: Here is the Wikipedia article on the M27 IAR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M27_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle

::Apparently the weapon was adopted by the Marine Corps as a replacement for the M249 SAW. The main differences are a heavier barrel to handle prolonged automatic firing and a bayonet lug. It is rated for 20 & 30-round STANAG box magazines, but tests are underway on higher-capacity magazines such as the beta-C drum mag. It also has a slower rate of fire; 560 to 640 rounds per minute vs. 700 to 900 rpm with the HK416. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 02:03, 1 October 2011 (CDT)
:::A ''supplement'' for the M249, not a replacement. There's no way in HFIL that a magazine-fed weapon could ''replace'' a belt-fed automatic weapon in the suppression fire role. If the Corps wanted to lessen reliance on the SAW, just put FA lowers on M16A4s and M4s and be done with it. Why do you think SOF don't use a SAW? Because ''all'' of their weapons are capable of full auto. I don't see why they didn't give this an M1918A3 designation, since it's just ''BAR 2.0''. Maybe they should replace their M16s with M1 Garands and their M4s with M1 carbines, considering this backwards motion that procurement is taking. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:14, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::The M27 IAR was meant as a prolonged Automatic Rifle not a Light Machine Gun. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 09:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)
:::::In application, there really isn't any difference between the two. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:05, 5 December 2011 (CST)

::As an Automatic Rifle it has only 2 inches on the standard HK416's barrel length. Sure, without a belt-feed it can still feed casket- or drum-magazines, but those usually don't net you more than a 100 rounds maximum. And for maximum accuracy wouldn't you need the full 20-inch barrel? Or would they rather use M16A4s for that? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 11:05, 4 December 2011 (CST)

== Stock options for the HK Rifle series ==

All the photos or depictions I've seen for this rifle series depict them with telescoping M4-style buttstocks. Of course it can use a fixed buttstock, but if this rifle is based on the G36 then it stands to reason that it should be able to use the same buttstocks as a G36 can, such as a folding buttstock or just a buttcap. Wouldn't those units issued HK416s/HK417s want the added versatility of a folding buttstock if they're going to be travelling in a vehicle a lot? What about a combination folding/telescoping buttstock seen on the LR-300 rifles? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 05:19, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Only the bolt and gas system are from the G36, the outside is (mostly) just like a M4A1 Carbine. A G36 stock would not fit on a M4/M16 why would it fit a HK416, I'm surprised you don't see that. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:12, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

In any case, the G36 gas system has no need for a receiver extension (that big cylindrical thing sticking out the back if you remove a standard AR-15's buttstock) that precludes folding buttstocks. I suppose the standard M4 telescoping stock was kept for familiarity's sake, but for those who can afford to train to adapt to the difference, I'm very surprised that HK didn't go all the way and introduce a folding stock for maximum compactness. It's not exactly rocket science to make and attach a folding buttstock securely to a rifle that can take it, and this is why I'm confused as to why I haven't seen one yet for an HK416. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 19:06, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Well, this is what the U.S. Military wanted. :\ Most other gas-piston ARs still have the buffer-tube too. P.S. I think you meant "buffer-tube" not "receiver extension" - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:49, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

The bolt in an HK416 isn't from the G36, it differs very little from an AR-15 bolt. [http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2461.jpg] For that reason, it does require a buffer tube and can't take a folding stock. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:59, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:Yes, it seems from [http://www.armytimes.com/projects/flash/2007_02_20_carbine/ this flash animation] that the HK416 still (regrettably) uses a buffer tube. I still don't know why they didn't go "whole hog" for the HK416/417 since "compactness, compactness, compactness" seems to be the order of the day, since a folding buttstock makes it even shorter (without sacrificing range or accuracy like shortening a barrel does). And the G36 (according to a newer photo of an additional variant on this wiki) also had a combination buttstock earlier. Was it to make the field-stripping/maintenance process similar enough to the M4 carbine so those used to it could transition without any further training? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:57, 4 December 2011 (CST)

::Because it's what Delta wanted. The point of the HK416 was to be just an upgraded M4. No more, no less. If Delta want folding stocks, I'd imagine they have a number of G36Cs (and now SCAR-L/H) laying around in their armory to use. It's pretty safe to assume that top tier units like Delta and DEVGRU have access to virtually any weapon they could ever want to use. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:01, 5 December 2011 (CST)

^ I agree ---P226 21:26, 5 December 2011 (CST)

== RIS ==

Can you switch out the stock RIS on this rifle for another AR15 RIS? Are they compatable?---P226 19:29, 6 December 2011 (CST)
:The 416's RIS is proprietary, its attachment system is different and it has to sit higher because of the piston. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 20:11, 6 December 2011 (CST)

There is a rail system made by Geissele for the standard AR-15 that fits the 416. --[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 11:13, 22 June 2012 (CDT)Recon42

Talk:Eight Legged Freaks

2012-06-12T17:04:54Z

Recon42: /* M1 Garand */ new section

== P.S ==
The film is'nt set in Texas it's set in Arizona.

:Thank you. Now I remember some type of handgun and a crossbow in this movie, expand. And brush up on your English ;) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Yeah im seeing this movie, an while they hide in the mall, in a store there is the crossbow, i think that the handgun is a beretta. [[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]]

== M1 Garand ==

At about 45 mins into the film, when one of them is gearing up he picks up an M1 Garand and misquotes it as the "Lee Oswald gun". Don't have a pic, but there's a clear shot of the receiver and it's definitely a Garand.--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 12:04, 12 June 2012 (CDT)Recon42

Talk:Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

2012-06-08T13:46:54Z

Recon42: /* L85A2? */ new section

I'm sorry for the shitty quality of these pics. The video players were tiny and i couldnt make them any bigger. This will have to do, but I promise to get better ones when more footage is released. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:Thats a little better, but more will come. Just so everyone knows, (im a freak, I know) both main military characters have been promoted, so they are now Major Lennox and Senor Master Sergeant Epps. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

About the M4s in the movie i just saw it today and it appears that barrels have been modified
and it almost looks like it is for grenades and a light under the barrel, but if you look at the magazine it is a regular 5.56 magazine.
: It looked like the forend from a G-36 or something similar in shape. It's impossible to be sure untill the DVD comes out though. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:: OK, I've been doing some digging and I think that the M4s may be fitted with [http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76&products_id=303 Magpul MOE handguards] in adittion to the CTR stocks, similar to [http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/ProductDetail?prodID=26749 this] airsoft gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Well if you look at the Beowulf they too have the same magazine look as the M4 only it holds less ammunition! Which would make total sense that a military unit would employ the .50 caliber Beowulf rifle to go up against huge robots, then a smaller 5.56mm round. Plus the upper receiver of the Beowulf can be easily mounted on any M4 or M-16 lower receiver.
:I think we need Karnes on this one since i think he was the armorer on this film. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ at the end of your post.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Don't really know where to put this but: are you sure that the soldiers w/AKMs are on the Egy./Jor. border? I mean is that what it says in the movie because Egypt and Jordan don't have a border.[[User:Jp|Jp]] 02:22, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
:It would be pretty hard, since Israel is between them. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 22:44, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Beowulfar.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beowulf assault rifle, .50 Beowulf]]

== The music ==
Along Linkin Park which is in my opinion, pure shit we are going to have another theme for this movie. I know this has nothing to do with guns but, i just though i had to post this here:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3_EXxwDpq0&fmt=22 The Touch: Sam's Theme]

The first one to say that the song wasn't bad gets a 7.62 NATO to the head, you hear me?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
:Also, The movie's main theme is going to be Cheap trick's version of the transformer theme.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:48, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Why 7.62*51mm and not .357 SIG? beeteles
:More Ridiculous. As in "[[Commando]]" ridiculous.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:14, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
: Someone ought to give Michael Bay a Belfast Six Pack( Bullet in the wrists, elbows and knees). He's such a dbag-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] (S&Wshooter)
:B-but....Bad Boys!
:You have a point, but it doesn't make up for his douchebaggery-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] (S&Wshooter)
::We can't blame Bay for that song. Cheap Trick is going to make the Theme Song so atleast that shows us that Michael Bay has enough of a brain to know that song is shit. Also, the first Bay Transformers movie was awesome and this one looks like to have more Robots and less humans and the usual Michael Bay "I have a boner for the US Military so here is the Military doing awesome things" scenes so that means that this one will be much better than the first one. Everything in Michael Bay movies explode which is '''''AWESOME'''''.
::I will just quote the Transformers Wiki article on him:

"He demands that things be AWESOME. And explode. Because explosions are awesome."

And that's true. Michael Bay is awesome and explosions are awesome. Here is the Transformers article on him: [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Michael_Bay].

And to finish this, i will quote the TF wiki again:

"He starred in a Verizon FiOS commercial in which he had an awesome pussy cat (a tiger), an awesome grill (with a life-size Bumblebee, also awesome), and an awesome pool. Typically, he had a switch to blow something up, which he did...three times. The cat was not blown up (which was fortunate), but all three explosions were '''''AWESOME'''''."
:Every time I have seen a Bay movie other than Bad Boys, my eyes felt like they were going to literally bleed-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 04:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::Come On! The Rock was awesome!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:32, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I got to see an advance screening of this film 2 days before the official U.S. release (my sister won tickets from a local radio station and took me with her), and I have to say this film is truly awesome. A -lot- more action-oriented than the first ''[[Transformers]]'', with some well-placed comic relief scenes. A lot of the guns seen in the film seemed to be fictional weapons though, but did see some real weapons including those mentioned in the article, as well as a couple of A2 or A4-model M16's(couldn't see if the carry handle/rear sight was held on by screws or not) and a couple of M240's. Definitely a must-see for anyone with -ANY- interest in Transformers at all. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::Thank god this movie is good. The first one was fun but most of the comic-relief was bad. I got one question though. Were Shia's parents funny? I liked them in the first movie and were they still funny?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:::They were pretty hilarious. I can't say too much without giving spoilers, but they make some pretty funny scenes in the film. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 16:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== M16 Variants ==
Several of the M16/AR variants seem like they have the handguard of the M16A2 LMG -Mythekal

==Ravage==
Yup. Ravage was good and he has cool miniguns. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]]

==GAU-19==
Some anoynimous user put in that there was a GAU-19 .50 BMG minigun in the film. I have seen the film and neather I nor my friends who have both seen the film and are firearms enthusiasts remember seeing such a weapon. We have seen lots of Miniguns mounted on NEST vehicles,but nothing that is the size and design of a GAU-19. thus I am blanking the section until proven wrong with a screencap or an armore on the film says that yes they have managed to get ahold of such a rare weapons system. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 07:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
** Can we get some sort of ruling on this because I am pretty sure that was a GAU-19 and not a minigun or some mocked up chaingun --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 01:29, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Well it's not a Minigun and it's way too small to bwe a GAU-19/A. You can tell that from looking at the scale of the photo of the GAU-19 armed HHMWV and the weapons on the NEST vehicles. We have discussed it on the forum and they are mockups as far as we can tell. Steve would have mentioned it long ago if he had managed to get his hands on such a weapon as he worked on the film and built the handheld minigun in it. --[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 03:15, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:::The mocked up GAU/19 guns appear to be Browning M1919s based on their shapes and reciever features. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
I can conclude that this gun is, if anything, a Browning M37, with special tri-barrel shell around it. You can actually see it spinning when it is fired, probably from some remote control

== Anyone? ==

Someone going to do this movie? It's out on DVD for a few weeks now. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:22, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
:I have it and would, but i have a feeling that GM45 will just delete them with Blu-ray HD pics instead. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

::GM45 is probably not going to be back for a while. Also, last I checked, he doesn't have Blu-Ray, just standard-def. I do have Blu-Ray, but I haven't had time to work on very many projects for a while. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:::Oh well hell, i'll start tomorrow then :) -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::::I have this on my Blockbuster rental lineup, but as with GM45, I only have standard DVD capability. Do you have Blu-Ray, Winchester? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 02:44, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, standard for me as well. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

I have a DVD quality version on my computer, so I'll pitch in, since this might take awhile. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:59, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

:::I can also see about getting the Blu Ray (I'm sure somebody I know has it and will let me borrow it). But I doubt I'm going to find time to work on it until Christmas vacation. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:55, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

:I have Blu-Ray, but I can't screencap. Sucks, doesn't it?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 16:25, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
::Well, you could install VLC media player and screencap it but I don't think Spetsnaz would allow it.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

:No, he would probably kill me with a pencil or something if I did-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

== M26 MASS? ==

Could the Marine in the pic below seems to have M26 MASS on his M4? Due to the way he's holding it, the Mag in front doesn't look like it's for the M4. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 23:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:TF2 009.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's also too bulky to be a 5.56 mag, so yeah, I'd surmise it to be an MASS. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:08, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== HK416 ==

I think there was at least one HK416 in the movie. In the below behind the scenes image I think the guy kneeling on the left is using a 10" barrelled HK416, the handguard matches along with the markings on the magazine well and the lack of barrel mounted front sight:
[[File:TF2 1003.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
Anyone know if it was actually visible in the main film at any point? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:58, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== L85A2? ==

From one of the pages I've seen it said the L85A2 was used in the movie? This is the link http://www.icollector.com/Rubber-stunt-L85A2-assault-rifle-from-Transformers-Revenge-of-the-Fallen_i8633076 --[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 08:46, 8 June 2012 (CDT)Recon42

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2012-06-06T13:11:49Z

Recon42:

==OTHER==
That's Norman Reedus with the crossbow. He plays Daryl Dixon, who was not in the actual comic that I can recall. I like that though, he's a cool actor. I'm also a little bummed that they didn't use the guns drawn in the comics. Rick uses a HK mk.23. For those of you who might think that it's impossible to tell that from the comic the artist wrote HK MK.23 on the barrel. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I read some where that the Walker are attracted to loud noises. that might be why he is carrying a crossbow

It is smart to use a crossbow; because it saves on bullets and in most all undead literature and movies the undead always react and swarm when they hear a gunshot. Very good show, have never read the comic but look forward to.-GoshMr.Peabody

It's pretty amazing. I recommend buying the trade paperbacks. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Not only does a crossbow save on ammo and is silent, crossbow bolts can be retrieved and reused repeatedly before they bend, dull, break, or otherwise can't be used any longer. In effect, Daryl has essentially a near-infinite source of ammunition. As for Rick, I think the Python suits him better. It has personality, the Mark 23... not so much. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:43, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==Whoa==
I loved the comic, when the hell did it get a tv show?

The idea was revealed a while ago. It comes out on Halloween. -SasquatchJim

honestly , its like two hours till the show ,i cant wait. simmons 8492

Well it kept my interest. I'll watch it again next week to see if it can maintain the momentum.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

honestly it took some time to realy get things going , but now hes in a populated zone with other survivers . and if i was him id start that tank up! simmons 8492

I coulda sworn the 50 on that tank was still loaded with ammo and in the next scene, it had no ammo [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Just watched it again. The .50 on the tank doesn't appear to be loaded, but there's another one in a sandbag fort that is, in the foreground as he goes by. -IGemini 04:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

iv watched it from the start and i have to say its great simmons 8492

== Crappy dialogue ==

In the trailer, one of the cops told the other to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off. First off, the man he was talking to, had a Glock, so no safety. And since he's a trained cop, ready to open fire on a suspect that's hostile, why wouldn't he have a round in the chamber and his gun ready to go? That line just threw me off [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, just watched it. Its brilliant, easily as good as the comic. The 'crappy dialogue above does jar a little tho. Hes telling him to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off as it is implied the officer in question is a bit useless, however after doing a brass check the officer in question then presses down on the slide release (even tho the slide is forward) as if to pretend it is the saftey catch. Morgan has a 5 shot snub revolver (which someone else will have to identify as im not too good with em). Rick pull a 92fs (standing in for an m9) from a dead soldiers shoulder holster at the end of the episode, and i'm fairly sure the SIG is a tutone P228 or 229 not a P239 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe Basset is so damn useless that he hasn't even figured out that Glocks don't come with manual safeties... --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:28, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing about the thing with the safety is that you can hear the sound of a safety being click off.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 04:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the dialogue was written long before it was decided the cop would be holding a Glock(unless the writer is Michael Mann). So maybe the round in the chamber thing may have been unwarranted, but maybe he was a rookie, he did seem sort of skittish. Regardless, it's unfair to call ''that'' crappy dialogue. I think you're letting your knowledge of guns get in the way of enjoying good stories.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 04:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dont know if its worth noting, but the cop he tells that too, is actually, the first zombie he ends up shooting, after leaving the police station. Rick commented he was careless and dumb, so reminding him, makes sense.

And, of course, Rick committed a cardinal sin; he referred to a magazine as a clip :P -SasquatchJim

I'm not surprised, Sasqatch. The cop I talked to called his Glock 17 a "Glock 9". I'm sure he would have said clip to. Not all cops are into guns. Haha

:He also could have meant "Glock 9mm", you know, since "9" is common shorthand for 9mm. When has anyone referred to .45 ACP as "11.43mm"? Hell, I once had a conversation with a Korean War vet about 1911s and when I referred to the cartridge by its dimensions, he had a dumbfounded look on his face and "corrected" me, telling me that the 1911A1 was "a 45, not no 11-something". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:51, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==SIG P239==

[[Image:WalkingDead-SIGP239.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A chase suspect emerges from the wrecked car firing a two-tone SIG P239 at police.]]

This doesn't look like a P239 to me; more like a P226 or P228. It's too big, and it has nickel controls (which the two-tone P239s don't have). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:P228 because of the slide length. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Remember, on low resolution screencaps like the ones I had to use, feel free to correct the Gun IDs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::: Watching the scene I agree that it is somewhat larger. Sounds fine to me - I'll change it. The first episode was pretty good. I'm adding a Beretta 92FS (M9) entry - Grimes indeed takes one off a 'dead' soldier inside the Abrams tank he gets into, as noted by the above section. Also, I never did get a good glance at the snub revolver, though I'm fairly certain it's a S&W. They're replaying the show so I'll keep an eye for it, and some of the other guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

==Spoiler Comment and Morgan's Revolver==
Its nice to see the page updated but arn't some of the descriptions (mainly the colt python) a bit spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched it yet? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Whoa, yes they are, I sure as hell didn't add those. :b I'll reword them somewhat. Also! The revolver Morgan uses is a Snub S&W Model 66, I can almost guarantee it. Bah, wish I could get screencaps. Still, I'll add that as well. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure its a 66? I remember it having a 5 round cylinder --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I grabbed this off my skyplus box so sorry bout the quality [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2i700fm.jpg[/IMG] Any use, its definatly a 5 shot--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: I could have ''sworn'' it was a S&W. But it's definitely not a Model 66, since there's no rear adj. sights, nor of course a 6-shot cylinder. But Smith snubbie J-frames (5-shot) all have flat 'bull-nose' ejector rod shrouds, not curved. Bah, now I'm kinda stumped. My best guess at this point would probably be a [[Ruger SP101]]. Convert that image there to JPG and upload it on the site. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Looks like it could also be either the [[Taurus Model 617]] or possibly a stainless steel [[Taurus Model 85]]. Biu it is difficult.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

From the barrel it looks like an early Taurus Model 85 in stainless or nickel plated. It was a five shot cylinder definitely.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: After posting I did consider it being a Taurus, many of them are awfully S&W looking to begin with. I doubt it's a 617 but it easily could be an 85. Hell, could be anything for all I know at this point. I guess it'll just be another 'unidentified' until we get more/better screencaps. I'll modify the S&W 66 entry I posted and just call it un-ID'd snub revolver, noting the 5-shot capacity and stating the possible choices. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain it is actually a Ruger SP101, two inch model. No other snubbie, as far as I know, has the upper rear of the frame shaped into a rear sight notch like the SP101, as both of those Taurus models just lack rear sights - you can check the Taurus website as both models lack a "rear sight" category under specifications. Also, if you check out the behind the scenes vid [http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/?bclid=625294007001&bcpid=111717822001&bctid=628200502001 here], there is a pretty decent side shot of the revolver. The general shape is very close to a SP101, and even from the front, the lines on Morgan's triggerguard and barrel are cut much closer semi-melted look on the SP than the very sharp ones on a Taurus oR S&W.

All said, the easiest way to tell would be if they showed the damned cylinder release at some point. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 07:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC) (Corrected typo --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 02:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

: It's not an SP101. The recoil shield shown is a simple traditional shape, not the bulkier contours Rugers have in that part of the frame. Also, the ejector rod shroud is cut back more sharply from the muzzle, and the revolver in the show seems to lack the small hole on the front of the frame for the front crane lock. [[User:Rule .303|Rule .303]] 14:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the screens uploaded I'd say definately not a 617, 617 is a 7-shot, also can't see a ported barrel. Still think it's a Taurus though. [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 09:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

If you watch the Making of the Walking dead Season 1 it shows the side of the revolver.. Looks exactly like the Ruger SP101 from Breaking Bad. I'm guessing its the same prop. (Just like I think the RV is. )

: It's definately not a Ruger SP101. As to the comment of the SP101 being unique with regards to the rear notch site. Nope. All snubbies have that. I have both the Taurus 85 (old shape) and the Taurus 85 Stainless. Looks much more like that due to the unique underlug on the revolver. Also look at the SP101's front. http://www.dayattherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sp101target8.jpg Definately not what we are seeing in these screen captures. [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 07:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It appears to be a Taurus 405 to me. Looks large-bored, probably .40S&W so that would match the 405. The front sight is tiny from that back angle which also matches the 405, the cylinder backing plate is the same etc. krispic 21:36 Feb 22 2012

== What kind of tank was that? ==

Its oviously a stand-in for an M-1 but I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking possibly a Chieftain, but I'm not sure. Also, note that a real M-1 woulnd't have worked for the scene since it lacks the floor escape hatch.

-AC.

:I'm also reasonably certain the 82nd Airborne Division doesn't have tanks in their TO&E, yet the (un)dead soldier in the tank had an 82nd patch on his left shoulder. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:32, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Well i would imagine that in the chaos of the zombie apocalypse lots of soldiers ended up with other units doin jobs they aren't really trained for.

Actually smaller units are frequently attached (I believe the Brits call it seconded) to other units for mission purposes. Some armor battalions spent the whole campaign in France (WW II, 1944-1945) being attached to various infantry units - to include the airborne. After all the elements of the 9th and 10th armor divisions that were in Bastogne during the siege fell under the 101st Airborne for the duration of that battle. Funny how the airborne mafia always seems to forget about all the ''other'' troops that fought in that battle. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:17, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

At this point I'm not sure, but I do suspect it's the same tank that shows up in ''[[Zombieland]]''. Both shows are filmed in Georgia and the voice-over commentary on ''Zombieland'' states that the tank is owned by a private collector.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Definately a Chieftain.

: I concur, Chieftains are often used (mocked-up) as stand-ins for Abrams tanks. I also noticed the bottom escape hatch, which as far as I can recall, indeed isn't on an actual Abrams. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

''Other comments posted on main page-''

(Perhaps it is just me, but the Abrams featured in this appears to be a mocked up British Chieftain Tank, I didn't get a good look at the tank but it didn't seem to be a genuine Abrams, although it could simply be an older pattern M1 without the TUSK upgrade, reactive armor and the more apparent loaders hatch. Yet that would not explain the escape hatch.- Doc345)

Older M1s didn't look that diffrent, from the later ones, aside from the most recent upgardes.

Also, the angle of the frontal turret armor is wrong to be an M1.

I think this may be the same tank which appeared in, among other series, Jericho. The vehicle, if I remember correctly, is built on an old Centurion chasis to resemble an Abrams with some obvious differences. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On a random note, where was a Striker seen in the episode? It says on the page that there was one with a fifty cal on it, but aside from the tank, the only other military vehicles I saw where some HMMWVs, what looked like a deuce, and a half, and some abandone Hueys.

Intrestingly, in the trailor, the one Rick first sees after leaving the hospital lacked a rotor blade making me think it was edited in post-production. Also, the one off to Ricks left appears to still be lacking one.

-AC

at the begging seen when the main cerictor walkes out of the hospital he sees a ebandoned military equpent you can see a Stryker IFV --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
heres a picture
[[Image:The walking dead.png]]

I can say without a doubt that the 'M1' ''is'' a Chieftain, not a Centurion. The long sloping frontal 'nose' armour, the front idler wheel and the lockers/storage bins are features of the Chieftain, not the Centurion. Not too sure about the 'escape hatch' though. I wonder if this is the same 'M1' that appears in the 2010 remake of Red Dawn? It looks the same to me. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

*Naw, that one they've actually made some modifications to like building up the hull and turret to be more Abrams-like and putting an M1-style bulge over the cylindrical fume extractor. This is just a Chieftain with a fake M2 awkwardly perched on top of the hatch weapon mounting. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:07, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

== Things I noticed ==

Did anybody else notice that when Morgan cocked the hammer back on his gun and threatened to shoot Grimes if he didn't talk, the cylinder didn't advance to the next chamber like it should?

And what about Grimes' personal arsenal in his backpack? Is it safe to assume that rubber/resin mockups? He was getting bounced pretty hard by that horse and the guns kept bumping him in the back. That's at least 40 pounds of gear to be carrying around.

More than safe to assume that. Most of them even appeared to have solid barrels. Probably rubber.--[[Special:Contributions/99.48.50.70|99.48.50.70]] 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The cylinder did rotate, I remembered that happening when I watched the scene. As far as the bag -o- guns, I have no idea. If they were all rubber, they were modeled after some hard to find shotgun configurations and looked very real. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 20:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Grimes in episode 3 his duffle bag was holding six shotguns, two "high powered" rifles, a dozen handguns, and 700 rounds of assorted ammo. That's easily 80-90 pounds of gear. There's no way Grimes could be carrying that around in one hand with a gas can in the other. Or getting bucked and having the bag sag to the side and the stuff not come falling out.

Did anybody else notice that Dale seemed to switch between carrying a rifle with a sling, to carrying one without a sling between scenes?

== I rewatched the first episode. ==

Two of the Sheriffs deputys from the neighboring county had shotguns. One looked like and 870 Remington. The other looked like a Mossberg.

The gun used to shoot Rick, I'm pretty sure was either 1911, or a Glock. It seemed to have an extended slide.

-AC

:: I noticed the shotguns too but it was hard to get a decent look at them, mainly the second one (Mossberg I guess). I will concur at least one of the other shotguns was indeed a standard 870. No idea what the pistol is/was. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Almost positive the other two deputys, from the neighboring county had Glocks, like the other deputys from Ricks department.

You can see one of the shotguns fairly well, after Rick gots shot, one of the two deputys joins Shane in trying to help Rick. Like Shane, he drops his gun, and it can be seen fairly well.

Looking at the pick on here, I'm more positive than ever that the last gunmans weapon was a 1911.
Good eye on my part, since it was litreally visible for like less than a second.-AC.

==Andrea's gun==
I believe Andrea is packing a Smith and Wesson 3913 Ladysmith [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I concur. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Here's a good picture. http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-2-rick-andrea.php
[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:: I also agree about it being a 3913 Ladysmith. We also saw a M67 'baseball' grenade in this latest episode (actually the training version, you could still spot some blue paint on it). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of rifle did Meryl have? ==

Looked like possibly a Model 70, but I'm bad at identifing bolt actions.
-AC

Seriously, does anyone know what kind of rifle he had?-AC

Compare the bolt heads (or whatever the end of the bolt closest to the butt is called); the Remington 700 seems to have more of a protruding portion, while the Mod. 70 is tucked in and more square-like.

At least, that's what it seems like. There used to be a generic page for comparing Bolt-Action Rifles, like the shotguns have now. Where did that page go?

Here it is.

[[Bolt Action Rifles - Most common Sporting Models|Scoped Bolt Action Hunting Rifles]]. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

==Shane's Pistol==
Can anyone identify the pistol Shane is carrying? It looks like either a Glock or possibly a Sig Pro. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Probally a Gock. There very common cop guns, in both hollywood, and real life. Also, severael of the cops, at opening shootout had them, so evedently the prophouse they went to had some.
-AC

Definitely a Glock. Although it's only shown briefly, it looks like a 17. He carries it in a thumb break holster. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

Picture of him holding it: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-4-carl-lori-shane-morales.php

After looking at the screenshot on the main page, can anyone identify the holster?

In the finale you can see its a Glock 19. Not 17. (Also the firing M4s looked like they had blank firing adapters as flashiders)

Definitely a 17 in the last episode when shane opens the barn doors and shhots all the walkers he fires too many rounds for it to be a 19

This is getting tiresome now, stop identifying guns based on the amount of rounds that they fire! It's a TV series where in editing they can easily make a 15 round magazine last for 80 rounds (see John Woo films) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:27, 2 January 2012 (CST)

==Merle==

It's Merle not Maryl or Marle

==Guts==
I really like how Rick actually checks the dead soldier's vest for more ammo instead of just taking the weapon like every other film. I also like how when his Beretta runs dry he doesn't toss it away like some generic action hero but he keeps it and stows it in Glenn's backpack. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was good stuff. Have yet to see the Beretta again though. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:Did you also notice that his [[Colt Python]] is still in his hoslter even though he ran out of ammo for it? I liked that touch as well. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

You never know what you might find ammo for at a latter date.-AC
::Which he does in the third episode. Anyway Python's are too expensive to be tossing away on a whim. Even after the Zombie Apocalypse has happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If I recall right they've been outta production since the late 90s.

::The last Python was manufactured approximately six years ago. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Still outta production than. If I recall right, for a while it was outta generael production, but could be special ordered.

Yes the last five or six years it had to be ordered through the custom shop.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The Python, and The Anaconda, where the best revolvers Colt made since the SAA imho-AC

IMO, the Official Police and Detective Special should be included as well. -SasquatchJim

Too bad that still fully loaded .50 next to the tank is too heavy to take back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If he can walk and ride a horse with a 90lb bag on his back like its nothing, he could carry a M2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And he brought buddies with him to GET that bag he left behind. They can lug around an M2 with ammo. Sure it doesn't look like there's any extra, but it's an M2 with AMMO! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But honestly, what would be the purpose, in this story? I mean, they're already getting guns and ammo, and it's not like you need a lot of penetration to kill a zombie, so they don't really need a .50 caliber machinegun. All it would really do was kill a couple of zombies while making a shitload of noise, attracting every zombie in a mile radius. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

: I bet one would've come in handy on top of the camper during the attack on the camp. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::Possibly (I posted that before I saw that episode, sorry.), though I doubt any of them have any training or even any practice with military grade machine guns, and so I'm betting that during the chaos of the attack, they would have killed more of their own people. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
::: Woulda been kinda hard to use that thing in the dark, too, since the only source of light is that campfire. Scoring headshots on zombies without friendly fire in a situation like that? No way even TV-land can pull THAT one off.

Talking about scavenging guns, even when they were rushing back to the vehicles in front of the CDC wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least grab a couple of the discarded weapons lying around out front?

==Vatos==
Ok, tonight I think I've seen a S&W model 10, a Colt Detective Special, and possibly a S&W mosel 28 in the hands of the mexican gangsters and it looks like T-Dog was using a BAR. The bag had some Sigs and Glocks and Daryl had a Remington 870 and I think that Rick is using a Mossberg 590 not a 500. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't edit the page tonight, I just wrote on here. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Daryl took at least one Sig from the bag. T-Dog used a Mossberg later, but I think his scoped rifle was a BAR. The shotty Glenn ended up with, looked the same as Daryl's. Also, Shane drew his pistol at one point, but it was hard to see.-AC
==Daryl's Crossbow==
Daryl Dixon's crossbow is a Horton Scout HD 125: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2817217&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch. In the fourth episode "Vatos", when Daryl points it a T-dog on the roof you can see the faded Horton logo on the front. Scout 125 can be seen above the trigger after the camera angle changes. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

::Picture added and changes made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Was that an XD? ==

The handgun, that Daryl takes from the bag of guns. At first I thought it was a SIG, but after rewatching it, I think it may have been a Springfield Army XD.
-AC

Nope, definitely a bi-tone Sig of some kind.

Yeah, the XDs don't have all that stuff on the side of the gun and the slide is actually more Glock like than the more rounder Sig slides [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Walkingdeadsig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rick Grimes ([[Andrew Lincoln]]) inspects a bi-tone Sig Sauer handgun from his bag of guns.]]

- ZeoRanger5 17:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that looks like a SIG-sauer P226 or P228. simmons 8492

I agree with simmons 8492, i'd say p228 myself.

How did you think that was an XD?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 14:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. When I stuck it in his waistband, it looked like a combination between a Sig, and a Glock. As far as handguns go, I'd say the XD is closest to that description. Course I was rather sleep deprived at the time.-AC

i also think that in episode 5 shane pulls what looks to be a sig when the sister is coming back to life . im not sure because i know shane has a glock but this isnt in the holster , its carried mexican style and is only seen for seconds. can some one verify ?[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Rick also pulls a gun carried similarily in that scene. Ricks looked like a Glock.

but shanes looks more like a sig or something .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Some ones gotta move that pic into the 228 spot.[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:It's not a P228. The screencap doesn't show it well, but I checked the episode again, and it's possible to see that it has the squared trigger guard of the P226, rather than rounded, as on a P228. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

==Faking recoil==

Its a littlle overdone but nice to see it (a HP in 9mm doesnt kick as much as shown, but its better than most shows, and handling is pretty good or tv.

may be because he hasent realy fired a 9mm in a while he wasnt use to it or because hes used to the revovler

That makes no sense, .357 Magnum (I'm guessing thats what is loaded) has alot more kick, if he can handle a .357 than he could easily handle a 9mm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

and im sure that a python has more kick than that highpower . and being that he killed a hand full of zombies with that in the first episode it wont matter .-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:Just a FYI, its Hi Power, not High Power.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Since most people don't know the distinction between a Hi-Power and a Colt M1911, and the show is known to have certain..flaws when it comes to reality, they could have just been assuming that it was a .45, and Hollywood logic states that if it's larger than 9mm, it makes your wrist fly up and sends bad guys flying.

Or it was just because they wanted Rick to seem cool with a stainless steel firearm (like his Colt Python, which he points at other survivors so often, it could be a drinking game).

But being seriously, this is the same show where Glocks have external, slide-mounted safeties in the US and headshots can be made off-hand with a sidearm at 50 meters while running.

AUA/

:I haven't been able to watch the series only the first episode (no cable) but... The Python is a heavy revolver and could be loaded with .38 Specials. Also with the Hi-Power being a semi-auto and able to shoot more rapidly. Would have more perceived recoil. Seeing guys on YouTube handle .45s with very little recoil, it's shotguns and full auto rifles where movies get recoil wrong. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==DShK heavy machine gun?==

I believe there was an abandoned DShK heavy machine gun flanked by sandbags when they headed towards the CDC building by the looks of the muzzle. (This was the best episode so far, I think.) - Angel_956

Most likely a mocked up M2 but I definatly saw that distinct muzzle brake.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I added a cap but you cannot really tell one way or another if it is a mock up or not. Either way...it makes no sense for it to be there in the first place!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why would an outdated Soviet Union machine gun even be in the show, but it might be cleared up in the next episode. I clearly remember the guy in the CDC building saying something about some French soilders, I think. If so it might of meant that there was an international response to the zombie outbreak, trying to control it, explaining the DShK. [[User:Angel_956|Angel_956]]

:Now your just over-analyzing, it's in all likeliness what they used because it's what was available to use when they were shooting the scene. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe somebody "requisitioned" (read: looted) it from the National Infantry Museum or Fort Benning; both are in or around Columbus, GA, which isn't exactly close to Atlanta, but it's the closest place I can think of where you might plausibly find a DShK. When you need more HMGs, you grab what's available. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 20:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Weird though, since they obviously had M2s available for filming.-AC

:Not necessarily. Armorers can change during filming and weapons may not be available even though they were previously. Also remember that only the first episode had the M2 so the armorer could have changed since then. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, those M2HBs are still there in episodes 2 ("Guts," when Grimes escapes from the tank) and 4 ("Vatos," when Glenn goes to retrieve the Bag O' Guns) and they pass at least two M2HBs on the way to the CDC's front door after they pass the DShK. They weren't just there for the pilot. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 09:18, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

My thought was militia that made a last stand with the army to protect the people gathering at the CDC (notice the weapon is surrounded by bodies in civilian clothes), the DShK having been purchased by one of the members (legitimately or otherwise) and subsequently put to use following the outbreak. - Wolfblade670

Maybe the Russians dropped in tom VDV to help protect the CDC. -Jakezergling

:I, umm, highly doubt that... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:30, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, Russia would have enough trouble fighting the Walkers on their own turf, considering that Russia is easily 2 times the size of continental United States. Besides that, do the Russians even use the DshK anymore? I do believe it's been phased out by the Kord since the late 90s/early 2000s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:18, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's knife ==

In the third episode, when Daryl is told about his brother, he attacks Rick with some sort of hunting or combat knife. He's later seen with it in a sheath on his left thigh, and you get a fairly close (But very brief) look at it when they're walking through the building at the beginning of the forth episode. Anyone have any clue what it is? I mean, from the brief glimpse I got of it in the forth episode, it looked like it was possibly a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C, the same kind of knife that the character Royce had sheathed in Predators, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm, or give an alternative? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

It's actually a Busse Combat Team Gemini with a bead blasted finish and black and tan layered g10. Gerber is now supplying knives to the show as well, as seen in the season 2 premiere when Carl finds a full roll in and abandon vehicle. The list of models is on their FB page. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

: I would agree that Daryl does have a Busse Combat Team Gemini. A clear profile-type photo of Daryl's knife was featured in the "story sync" for the eighth episode of the second season on the AMC website. Here's a link to that image: http://www.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/208-17.jpg --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:24, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== What kind of gun did he give Morales? ==

He said it was a .357, but I have no idea what it was.-AC

/AUA

He held it in his hand for a profile shot; maybe you should try screencapping it at that point and going from there. There should be an ID for it though, unlike Morgan's snubnose.

AUA/

I lack the equipment needed to screencap.-AC

/AUA

Use IrfanView (freeware) or the PrtScn button on your computer (press it on the frame you want to capture, and then paste it into Paint to crop it).

AUA/

I think it's a Smith and Wesson 586 [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== Rick's second shotgun.==

After Rick gives the 590 (it wasn't a 500, someone should change that) to Guillermo, he uses one with an 18 inch barrel, a blued type finish and wood furniture. I think some people commented on it being a Mossberg, but it has a rounded bolt like a Remington 870. However, it's not an 870 since the trigger guard isn't round enough, the magazine tube is longer than the standard 4 shot tube, and it doesn't have an extension attached, and the wood furniture has a single rib on the side for gripping. After doing some research, my best guess is that it's an earlier H&R Pardner Pump, possibly in some sort of police configuration. I know it's neither a Mossberg or a Remington, though.

It's indeed an H&R Pardner Pump. The humpback receiver is unmistakable. [Ballistics_Expert2]

/AUA

I'd PrtScn/screencap the shotgun in question before making any comparisons. We still haven't definitively IDed Dale's bolt-action, so maybe you should get one of that as well.

AUA/

We still have Merles bolt-action as well.
-AC

This cap from the page will suffice:

[[Image:WD870ep05.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Rick with his Remigton, when he and Shane patrol the woods (Episode 5).]]

And a link to a Pardner Pump configured similarly:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/TRguy/Guns/NEFPardnerPumpYouth8-12-10.jpg

A few things distinguishing the shotgun in the picture as a Pardner Pump as opposed to an 870, 500 series, or whatever:

-Some type of thin rib on the top of the barrel.
-The foregrip has the distinctive groove in it as seen on the Pardner Pump.
-The agnle that the receiver curves at the butt end is a sharper angle rather than a bend type (you can tell by the shadow).
-The magazine tube is longer than a 4 shot, but it's not screwed on like other models, nor does the endcap and barrel link resemble that of other models.

Some other things that you can't notice in the picture, like the flatter trigger guard or a good shot of the angled receiver, are seen in the series very easily, namely in Episode 5 during Rick and Shane's patrol, when this cap takes place, and one instance in Episode 6 where the doctor is drawing blood and the gun is sitting behind Rick as he waits. This good enough? --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 10:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think you're right, it's not a Remington, Mossberg, or a Winchester. It looks like a Pardner, more like the Pardner pump compact, due to the shorter barrell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

-Rick's first shotgun was a 500 with the extended tube. It didn't have the bayonet lug, just check some of the promo pics on imbd.com - [[User:MarkXIX|MarkXIX]]

Ah, so it is, I could have sworn I saw the 590s tube cap on it. I can notice a buncha stuff on an H&R, but I get that wrong, lol. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 17:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Rick's shotgun, from the end of Vatos and on, was a Pardner Pump, but I don't think it was a 20 gauge. Sometimes, hunting model guns can have the vent-rib barrel cut down, to where it is a riot shotgun. I see that as being more plausible. --[[User:1897Reloaded|1897Reloaded]] 11:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

==Think its funny==

Rick misses several close range shots (so do long gun toting officers) in the beginning against chase suspects, then later in series hes nailing headshots left and right....

Noticed that too, although zombies don't shoot back. They just charge straight ahead.

/AUA

It's a screenplay-direction thing. The show is already a bit overdramatized in general, so little things like the 'clip' and 'safety' dialogue or the headshot ratio aren't really all that important to the screenwriters, at least not compared with inserting dramatic bits into it.

AUA/

When the police were shooting the chase suspects, their targets were live people. An accurate marksman or not, if you're not used to firing live rounds at live humans your subconscious may not want you to hit that kill shot. Zombies are different.

also he has had weeks of shooting live targets ie the zombies so he as probaly leared to shot them really well --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Unless you're superhuman, you can't learn how to make a shot that is off-hand, behind you, at a 1.5 x 1 ft target at 50 meters, while RUNNING, in a few weeks. Few people would be able to make that shot, period. The gate-zombie shots were just...unfeasible.

AUA/

*Well it is a show about the dead walking around and eating the flesh of the living. I'm willing to overlook the amazing skill that Rick displays with headshots.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:28, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

==Question about Shane's shotgun technique==
Just a question for those who may know, is it considered proper technique to hold the gun that high on the shoulder, with his cheek resting on the receiver? I figuered it was an adjustmant made due to the M4-style stock, as Rick and other survivors wielding unmodified weapons don't do this.

: I noticed that too, I figured it was just the actor's preference (possibly due to inexperience) but I guess it could be because of the M4 stock. I dunno. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

:It's standard practice in the US military. They teach you to ride the stock high so that your sights are level with your eyes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats with the M16/M4, not a shotgun.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:the stock on the shotgun is a Knoxx Industries SpecOps NRS Shotgun Stock

::My dad has one on his 870.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

-i noticed that . i dont think that stock has a single thing to do with it . it probably prefrances [[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Considering the US military teaches you do to that with a M4, the stock is pretty much the same as the M4 so I could see why he's doing it. Also I don't get the feeling that any of the actors are really inexperienced, they all seem to be trained well in regards to weapons. Least Rick and Shane do.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:18, 8 March 2012 (CST)

==Series Finale==

I noticed a nickel finished pistol tucked into Daryl's waistband mexican style early on in the episode, looked like a SIG.
I'm thinking that Daryl's pistol was probably the same Hi-Power Rick took off merle in episode 2.

Does any one else think the grenade description is a bit of a spoiler as it is a deus ex machina. I suggest only saying it is used in episode 6 and not how. I know this has absoloutely nothing to do with firearms but i loved the ax decapitation amidst the headshots at the end --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

:The grenade wasn't a deus ex machina, but a textbook example of Chekhov's gun. He found it in the first episode even. It would have been a deus ex machina if they found it there.(I expected him to actually bring it out against the guys in the city in episode 3, myself)--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 08:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, New guy here. When Jenner allows the the others to enter the facility at the start of the episode, he's seen holding an M4, and he mentions that "There're a lot of these lying around. I familiarized myself." And yet, none of the others ever even think of finding a couple of the guns for themselves. Shame, considering a couple of those and a few mags would've come in pretty handy outside (especially if there was a suppressor to be found) Anyone else bugged by this?

They've been sitting outside for like a month. The M4 is a fine, gun, but you need to clean it regularly.-AC

:Only if your in the desert sand, sitting around like that outside would be fine but not how I would store my guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I was definitely bugged by this fact. Supposedly a lot of M4s and 30 round magazines lying around, and Jenner's the only guy who has one. But then again the supply of ammo might've been low, considering everything that'd happened. [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

first off all there are no M4A1`s seen inside all out side wicth iswere he probily got it second they were only out side for a few momints ehter runing away from the bulding or trying to get in before they are over welbed with zombies tird as he said ammo is preety rare as you can see when they are out side there are hunderdes of dead zombies witch had to be killed by something --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== To Do List. ==

1. Shotguns used by deputies in opening shootout.
2. Morgans revolver.
3. Merles rifle.
4. The guns, Rick, and Shane pull after Amy turns.
5. The gun given to Morales.
6. Daryls handgun.
7. Whether Shanes Glock is a 17 or 19.
8. Whether Ricks first shotty was a 500 or a 590.
9. Ricks second shotty.

I miss anything?-AC

==Short Season Huh?==

At least season 2 will be twice as long, whenever they get around to making it.....

At least there will be a seaon two, I thought this was a miniseries at first and was very dissapointed that it was over so soon. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 01:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It's definately already in production. Normally when a series gets picked up production on the second season gets rolling ASAP. This became a pretty popular show, show I'm guessing AMC got the ball rolling right away when they realized they had demand for the show. Anyone here read the graphic novel series? I want to try and get into it but want to know if it's worth the time and money--[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 05:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

They really are worth it. I buy the trade paperbacks, they are like $12.00 a book. There are 13 of them up to now. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Personaaly i prefer the graphic novels. Dont get me wrong i love the series, but the comics are much more grim and dark, in the series everyone seems to be more willing to get along and its more zombie orientated, the comics are much more grim, its about the characters and in the comic no characters are safe, even mainstay ones. The tv series feels slightly more commercialised and main characters have outlived their comic book life already. I do love the tv version, and darly dixion is the best non comic character creation to be added to the series, I just hope Carl gets a gun next series, that said and cant belive i have to wait till october to see series 2.- Captain Snikt [[Special:Contributions/109.157.4.163|109.157.4.163]] 23:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:Daryl has proven so popular that he's actually being written into the comic. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:15, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

== Popular Cop Guns ==
An answer above said that the Glock was "a very common cop gun, in both hollywood, and real life." This is true, but I was wondering if their were any other cop guns in hollywood and in real life that are as popular as the Glock.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The Beretta 92 is the only one that comes to mind for me. -SasquatchJim.

:There aren't too many police depts issuing the Beretta 92F anymore, even though Hollywood still shows them being carried by cops. Anyway, Glock holds just under 2/3rds of the U.S. law enforcement market, SIG-Sauer holds about 1/3rd, and a number of other makes (S&W, H&K, Beretta, etc.) are constantly fighting each other for what's left. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer P226, S&W M19/66, AR-15, and many more... --[[User:nkingman|nkingman]]

Ah, that's right.
Some older ones include the S&W Model 10, S&W Model 28, Colt Trooper, and a 12 gauge pump shotgun (namely a Remington 870.)
Another new one is the S&W M&P -SasquatchJim

There was once a time when the S&W Model 15/67, the S&W Model 13/65. Colt Official Police, Ruger Six Series revolvers, the S&W Model 19/66 and the Colt Lawman/Trooper Mk III were also very popular Cop revolvers.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:40, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

Glocks, S&W M&Ps, SIGs, HK USPs, S&W 5906 (4506, etc) are known for being "cop guns",
Glocks IIRC are used by 60% of the police force in the US so its kinda hard to compare

== Flash suppressor on M4A1 ==

Did anyone else notice the flash suppressor on the M4A1 held by the soldier that gets grabbed is different than normal?
:I thought it was a nongun.--[[Special:Contributions/129.89.179.105|129.89.179.105]] 01:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)(thePotShot)
::Just for reference,
::[[Image:M4A1nongun.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M4A1 Non Gun]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Yeah, it's a Non Gun M4. Look at the range at which he's shooting at his comrades. Blanks are dangerous if an actor is shooting at other actors who are that close, so they probably had to use the Non Gun instead. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, the Aimpoint M68 CCO (in this case I believe it is a Comp M2 or ML2) can be used with the foreward lens cover closed. Used in this method, it forms an occuladed eye-sight, which were one of the first types of weapons optics employed. Using an occuladed eye-sight is very similar in principle to the BAC method employed in some Trijicon ACOGs, both eyes are left open and due to the way the brain processes images from the eye, what the left (or right eye sees) downrange has the red dot from the other eye (which is looking down the sight) superimposed on it. This is useful as there are rumors that the red dot (particularly in the Aimpoint family) can in fact be detected from in front of the weapon due to the intensity of the light, espiecially in night battle conditions. So the sceintist might really know what he is doing, but it is just as likely it was a mistake by the prop department.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 22:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== I liked Rick's reaction when he pulled the pin on the grenade in the last episode ==

He was thinkin "ohshitohshitohshitohshit" and then hauled ass outta there haha. I liked that little detail, along with him getting knocked off his feet as he tried to get as far away from it as possible, instead of the clichè "walk slowly towards the camera as a bomb goes off behind you with a bad-ass grimace on your face". This show had a lot of nice little details like that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)- Yeah but its a grenade bro, you have like what 7 seconds so you can't walk away slowly from it..and also the building was about to total..-jake

Yeah, I liked that too. i hate when like the everyday joe can slowly walk away from a huge explosion,[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

I like the way that he pulled the pin and had the "Oh my GOD!" moment when he suddenly realised that he needed to run fast. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:49, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

Lol, my friend was like that fuse is burning wtf is he doing? chilling?

== Season 2 ==

Anyone seen the trailer yet for the second seaons? It's been out for a few weeks now. I jus--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)t thought it was interesting that it hasn't been mentioned here.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

I don't have the equipment for getting screencaps from TV, but the revolver Daryl took from the camper who committed suicide looks like either a Colt Cobra or Detective Special. The structure doesn't look right for being a S&W Model 10 or Model 36/37. And the slender grip profile and lack of an ejector rod housing eliminates the possibility of it being a Taurus.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

I was rewatching the season 2 premier episode and I noticed something that irked me a bit concerning the scene at the tent where Daryl found the Colt revolver. This is a series known for a great deal of firearms safety and consideration. But here we have an example of typical Hollywood gun handling. Nobody checked to see how many live rounds were in it, they just assumed it was still loaded and ready to be used. For all we know Daryl handed Laurie an empty weapon for taking on the trail back to the RV.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

==Gerber Bag of Knives==

Carl ([[Chandler Riggs]]) found this bag in the first episode of the second season which contained six different gerber tool knives and machetes.

[[Image:Gerber-Zombie-Apocolypse-Knives.jpg|thumb|none|500px| So long as you use a knife, there's still a little love left.]]

In the Season 2 props video on the AMC website, they explain the endorsement and show some of the gear. The prop master also gives a look at Rick's character specific items, which includes a [http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000582-Modified-Partially-Serrated/dp/B004DT26ME/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319921541&sr=8-2 DMF Folder]. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:58, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

Some of this bag is anachronistic though, as the knives were not invented until after the zombie apocalypse destroyed humanity, and presumably the Gerber factory. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:21, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

How do you know that though? As far as I can remember there hasn't been a date mentioned for when the zombie apocalypse happened, it could be set in the very near future. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:30, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:What I meant is that some of the knives have been released since the series started airing, and I'm assuming that the first episode wasn't set in the future. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
::Fair enough. I do think of it like well they haven't really set an actual date on when it occurs so anything "new" that shows up in the show is either there to look cool or it's there for some sort of product placement. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:33, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::Or both. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:35, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::: Touche --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:08, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

== Morgan's Revolver ==

The revolver that Morgan uses is a S&W model 60

:It can't be the Model 60 because of the curved ejector shroud. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:38, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Season 2 spoiler-ish descriptions ==

I feel like a lot of the description "updates" on the guns used (or re-used, as applicable) in Season 2 are giving too much info away. Definitely enough to qualify as spoilers to some people (like me). One shouldn't need to narrate the scene and context in which the gun appears, at least not to the extent some of the descriptions are- especially if it's giving away future happenings.

== M4 ==

I think the caption about the doctor not noticing the covers for the M68 is a little of a moot point. The doctor stated he wasnt familiar with the weapon, and simply picked it up when soldiers started dying or running away. -MissySummers-

== Dave and Tony's guns ==

In the eighth episode of the second season - "Nebraska" - two newcomers walk into the bar where Rick and Glenn found Hershel drinking alone. The strangers introduce themselves to Rick, Glenn, and Hershel as Dave and Tony. I had a difficult time identifying these two guns that Dave and Tony had. Dave's gun looked to me like it might be a SIG-Sauer P226. Tony's gun looked to me like it was some sort of sawn-off double-barrel shotgun - maybe an over/under style double barrel shotgun too. Did anybody get a good look at either one of these guns? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:52, 21 February 2012 (CST)

After watching the episode "Triggerfinger" it looks like hershel picked up Dave's pistol which looked to me like a SIG-SAUER P228 to me. And the big guy had a cutdown pump shotgun that I think was a Remington 870 and Rick was duel weilding it with his Python when they left the bar. The kid on the roof appeared to a have a bolt action rifle but it never showed a clear pic.

: I just watched the "Nebraska" and "Triggerfinger" episodes again back to back. I would have to agree with you now on Dave's gun. It appears that Dave actually did bring a SIG-Sauer P228 into the bar in the "Nebraska" episode. I got a better look at this gun in the "Triggerfinger" episode when Hershel was armed with it. I could tell this gun was a P228 because the trigger guard was curved instead of hooked like the P226 has, plus the barrel and slide on this gun were shorter than what the P226 has. I looked very closely at Tony's shotgun too, but I don't agree with you on this one. There's no way it could have been a Remington 870. I would still say that it is a sawn-off, over/under, double barrel shotgun. (Just my opinion here, but a sawn-off shotgun would be a piss-poor gun for defending yourself against a zombie horde that is coming at you. The shot spread pattern on a sawn-off shotgun would be way too wide to be effective on any zombie's head beyond short range, and it's better to kill multiple zombies from a distance than at point blank range, right?) I also noticed that Glenn had Tony's shotgun later on in the "Triggerfinger" episode. I agree with you about that the kid on the roof though - he sure seemed to have a bolt action rifle with a scope mounted on it. What happened to it is the question now. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 15:59, 22 February 2012 (CST)
I just watched it again and I swore I heard a cocking sound so that could make it a pump action shotgun. You were right its not a pump action i believe its a over/under gun. [[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

: TV shows and movies usually have the cocking sound effects for guns added in for dramatic purposes. (For example, it seems that we often hear the cocking sound effect every time the script calls for one character to point a gun at somebody or something. In real life, guns are normally silent when this happens.) The Walking Dead seems to be just such a TV show. I don't know how to screen capture this yet, but I paused episode 208 at the 43:15 mark. I could clearly see the underside of Tony's gun there, and I did not see things on this gun such as a loading port, or a slide piece, both of which would be consistent with a pump action shotgun. It was all dark on that part of the shotgun instead, which to me seems more consistent with a double barrel, over/under, break action shotgun than with a pump action shotgun. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:55, 23 February 2012 (CST)

: I couldn't get a good look at Tony's shotgun in either "Nebraska" or "Triggerfinger". At first glance it looked like a cut down Winchester 1887 (like in T-2). I was wondering if anyone else happened to think that too? Also it almost looked like it had a synthetic stock on it which made me think it could have been the Chiappa T-Series 1887, but I don't know if those are availible yet, but again I didn't get a good enough look at it.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 20:10, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::It is a sawn off over and under (although it may be purpose made as it appeared to have a front sight present). You get a look at the gun when the guy gets up to piss, and after he is shot you see a front view of the gun showing that it is two open barrels rather than a barrel with a magazine tube underneath. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::: You're right. After rewatching the episode online and pausing just after he gets shot I could see the two barrels and also could see there is no lever either.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 22:57, 23 February 2012 (CST)

Tony's shotgun looks VERY much like the MOSSBERG HS12 after another look at episode 9. When Rick searches Tony's pocket and picks up two (probably 12-ga) shotgun rounds, you can clearly see the Top/Locking Lever for opening/locking the breech contrasted against the background. In the shot just before that you can see a Picatinny or Weaver rail on top of the receiver. This clearly says "HS12" to me...and though it pretty clearly does not have a rail on the bottom of the under barrel, not all HS12s have the under-barrel rail, I think. --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]] 27 Feb 2012
:Had to Google Mossberg HS12, and I must admit I giggled a little bit at the concept of a "tactical" over/under. I watched the episodes in question the other day, and from memory at least I'd have to agree with you. It'd be nice if someone could post a picture, though.... [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 18:05, 27 February 2012 (CST)
::I will try to get an appropriate screencap uploaded; ditto for the Sig P228/229 to help resolve that one. PS "tactical" double-barrels have made ground in the last couple years or so- check out Stoeger's "tactical" SxS...just remember to bring your barf bag- they're charging the same prices for one as you'd see for a good 870 or Mossy pump. Outrageous! In any case, stupid people waste their money on them- but I digress. Tony's apparent choice of shotgun bespeaks his desperation and/or seriously limited tactical reasoning ability- which I guess we already could've figured out around the time his body hit the floor. =P --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]]

: Does the Mossberg HS12 come with sling swivel studs? I noticed that Tony was carrying his shotgun by a sling that was looped over his shoulder. Since the buttstock of this shotgun had been sawn off, there was no way to just let it hang there - he had to keep holding onto the sling with his hand instead. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 09:00, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== What caused it? ==
Does the comic ever reveal what the cause of the outbreak was? I'm not asking for spoilers as to what the cause ''was'', I'm just asking if it's ever revealed, like a "yeah, they find out what it was" or "no, they build a rocket ship and fly to Mars to restart human civilization", or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:59, 27 February 2012 (CST)
:I don't think any reason has actually been given, and Robert Kirkman (writer of the comic) has stated that he doesn't plan to ever give a definitive cause. In the comic characters have speculated that it is caused by a virus that everyone in the world is infected with that causes them to reanimate after death. Because I've read the comic I already knew this so can't remember if it is made clear in the series, but it is the kind of zombie apocalypse where everyone who dies turns into a zombie, even if they die from non zombie causes (zombie bites cause infections that are 100% lethal). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 27 February 2012 (CST)

For Example a certain Main Character is shot dead at the end of the first book (in the comic they never went to the CDC, instead they just got the guns and left, but before they left the character is killed) and later in the series (maybe a book or two later, Rick returns to the place where they buried said person, and he was a zombie even though he had died by a bullet and not bite/scratch --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 09:34, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== Unidentified pistol ==

In the most recent episode, S02E11, Carl takes a pistol out of Daryl's bike. Presumably it is the same pistol Daryl used in episode S01E4. There were some pretty clear shots of the pistol when Carl is holding it, looked like a Browning, but I could be completely wrong. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 23:51, 5 March 2012 (CST)
:It was a [[Browning BDA]], not sure if this is the same gun as in S01E04 as it looks like that has a larger beavertail on the back of the grip, but is hard to tell from the shots available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:56, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Shotgun stock? ==
What type of stock is on Shane's shotgun?
--[[User:Zombie Killer 1995|Zombie Killer 1995]] 09:24, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:It says on the main article, a KNOXX SpecOps NRS stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:40, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's pistol ==

I think Daryl's unidentified pistol might be a CZ-75 series, the frame/grips seem to match it as does the general size.
:Looked more like a Browning Hi-Power to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:18, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I concur with Cool-breeze. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:41, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Looked more like a Browning BDM to me.

Hey, it does not really matter at this point as the stupid kid loses in the leafs and then books it..
::He ''didn't'' lose it in the bushes. But even if he had, it still matters what it is, considering the purpose of this website. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:22, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

That actually seemed to best the best look at the handgun we see and it appeared to be a Browning Hi-Power to me as well.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:15, 8 March 2012 (CST)

:People are talking about two different guns here. The easily identifiable one is the one that Carl takes out of Daryl's saddle bag in the most recent episode, which is definitely a [[Browning BDA]]. There is also the pistol that only the grip is seen sticking out of his waist band in S01E04, which I think is a different pistol. One of the only features that you can make out on this pistol is that fact that it has a prominent beavertail/grip spur at the back which is does not match the BDA or BDM. Hammer is wrong for the Hi-Power, my best guess would be a CZ-75 from the relationship between the hammer and the grip spur but it is not possible to tell from this pic. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:57, 9 March 2012 (CST)

== GUN SENSE ==

Their for sure would tons of M4'S and possibly m16a4's lying around in the streets of Atlanta with moer Berettas. Why does no one go for one and why do they not ask jenner for some. Would an assault rifle not be good to kill hordes of undead? Also why did rick not get on the .50 on the tank and take out some before. Even when I see police cars don't they raid them. The only time I have seen anyone do that is when Shane and Otis use the flares from the cruiser to distract the walkers..And yes I know it is a scripted show.
------
Don't forget that the show starts a while after the zombies take over so any M4s,M16s, etc would have already been scooped up from the Atlanta streets, at least the ones people could get before the city was overrun. And they didn't ask Jenner for any because an assault rifle is actually quite cumbersome and the ammo could weigh them down even more then they already are. Also it would be pretty hard to find any ammunition for M4s/M16s as that doesn't seem to be a commonly used weapon in this show beyond the military. They don't search cop cars because as I stated, the show starts a while after the initial overrunning of cities so if people had any brains, they would have raided cop cars a long time ago. As for the Beretta statement, it seems like that is more of a military firearm as well and not a police weapon, plus they can't search every single corpse they find in the city. As to the .50 cal on the tank, notice how fast the zombies crawled on top of the tank? Rick would never have lasted, plus I don't believe there was any .50 ammo in the tank, nor in the gun. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:14, 8 March 2012 (CST)

- -

Sorry I'm new at posting on here. Good point I forgot it starts 2 week after the outbreak. But I was thinking if Otis and Shane both had automatics it may have ended differently. Also we do Rick's beretta again with Shane and Andrea in the housing developments she has it no and perfers it to her ladysmith. And as to the .50cal their was one zombie when he came out to escape he shoveled it in the face. The .50 just is a bad idea in my opinion caue its one loud mother. Also I don't understand why people carry bolt actions around, look what happend to Dale. Imagine how smooth the show would run if everyone had silenced weapons. One more thing, is anyone else hoping for the variety of guns to switch up? We know that the kid's camp has 30 men+(jude,jury,executioner)so assuming Rick's group comes up on top cause the shows been renewed for season 3. Will they get some real artiliery? (User:n Gunfan1996)

:If I remember in the first episode, Rick did bump into a tank and I coulda sworn I saw ammo in that 50 cal, but it is a bit heavy for one to carry. An Assault Rifle plus ammo is not heavy at all. A shotgun with ammo is actually more heavy and cumbersome to carry and limited range 12:46, 9 March 2012 (CST)

:There was no ammo in the tank gun.

[[Image:WalkingDead-BrowningM2HB 02.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A closeup of the mounting; note that the mounting is designed for the L7 GPMG, an FN MAG derivative, and the fake M2 simply sits on top of it. Compare to the real M2 in the foreground of the shot above.]]

:Besides, Rick was on horseback. What's he going to do, mount the .50 on the head of his horse? And it's also worth noting that he didn't have any weapons that used that ammo. A belt of .50 would be dead weight (no pun intended). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:37, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

== WOW!!!!!!! AWESOME ENDING (SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!) ==

I couln' resist saying how awesome i thought S02: E12 was. That was the way to kill off Shane. Plus with the cool remix of the theme song playing as you see an army of walkers walk out onto the field. Just saying, I think Hershel or Maggie will die in the season finale. For those who missed it, here's a link: http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/talked-about-scene-episode-212-the-walking-dead-shanes-last-stand --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 14:51, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Yep pretty good. I knew that eventually Shane was going. If I remember the comic book correctly it was Carl who killed Shane when he was going to kill rick and then Rick finished him off when he came back as a walker. So in the television show they reversed that. Liked the ending. I wonder if next season they will deal with the Governor and the Prison? --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:30, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:If you search for news of the show, te actor has already been cast, looking forward to the next season.--[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 17:14, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:The Governor has indeed been cast and no it is not Merle. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:55, 12 March 2012 (CDT) [[http://screenrant.com/david-morrissey-governor-the-walking-dead-yman-156371/]]

Nothing you guys said makes any sense because i don't read comics. Don't tell me though. I'm going to read the comics after the series finally ends. I know a friend with the complete collection who sai he is going to sell it along with DVD copies when they all come out. I WANT THAT!!!!! Check on ebay after the series comes to an end.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 18:56, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

All I'm wondering is why did they make it so all you have to do is die to become a zombie instead of being bitten/scratched? Do they explain this as well? [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 10:00, 13 March 2012

:Almost every zombie story I've ever read, movie I've ever seen, or game I've ever played has it the same way as The Walking Dead TV series and comic book has had it - When a person dies for any reason, that same person later becomes a zombie, unless their brain has been damaged or destroyed first. So far, no explanation has been given as to exactly how this happens. My guess would be that it's all due to an airborne virus. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:56, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

Can anyone identify the knife Rick used to finally put Shane down? Was it one of the Gerbers seen frequently throughout this season, or something else? I couldn't get a close enough look.--[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:35, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:I paused S02/Ep12 at the 39:09 mark. That was where I could get the best look at this knife. As best I can tell, Rick used a Gerber DMF folder on Shane. I think Rick has had that same knife all throughout Season 2. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 13:19, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

I also wanted to know about a knife from episode 10 of season 2 (18 Miles Out). The knife in question is the one that Rick leaves for Randall to use. I don't know if it can be seen any better in any other episode but I know that Randall does eventually use it and I think I remember a few semi-close up shots of it.

:Yes, there are a few close-up shots of the knife Randall uses in Episode 10 of Season 2. It appears to be a sheath knife without any serrations on the blade, finger grooves on the grip, and a clip point. I checked the official Gerber website, but I was unable to see any knife pictured there which resembled this one. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 19:20, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

On the actual subject of the firearms used in the finale, I think Lori uses the Charter Arms Pug that Carl had earlier in the season. Daryl used a revolver I couldn't ID.... Looked like a .38 of some kind with a 4 or 5 inch barrel, but I'm not sure. [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 22:02, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

To add to that, Glenn was seen using Shane's Mossberg with the M4-style stock in the finale. (Shane no longer needed it.)
Hershel was also seen using, what I believe is the Remington 870 Wingmaster used by Dayrl in "Vatos"

== Logo on Carl's shirt ==
This is way off topic for IMFDB, but the logo on Carl's shirt in the episode "Better Angels", a black bear paw in front of a red atom, I know I've seen it elsewhere but I can't place it. At first I thought it was the old Blackwater logo, but the BW logo is a black bear paw in a red scope crosshair. Does anyone recognize it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:13, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

:The logo on Carl's shirt is for "Science Dog" - another comic book by the creator of TWD, Robert Kirkman. The comic book version of Carl has this same exact logo on his shirt too. Adding this level of detail to Carl's wardrobe in the TV series was a nice touch, I would say. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 07:01, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== The guns of the survivors ==
Way back in episode one of the series we see Rick load up all of the available weapons from the precinct's armory for his journey to Atlanta. And while we've had about 18 episodes to ask the question we really haven't yet. If they weapons came from the police armory why do a good portion of the long guns appear to be hunting firearms? The Browning BAR, the Remington 700, the Remington 870 and such look out of place in the right context.

- Well, I think that the older wooden-furniture Remington 870 and the Remington 700 can be explained, as it is a small, rural County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Before the widespread distribution of tactical sniper rifles, M16's and M4's across America's police departments, police were using other weapons, such as the Remington 700 and the Winchester Model 70 for that purpose. Also, we see Rick gathering up the weapons AFTER the outbreak. The Sheriff's officers could have grabbed the new firearms and left the older ones, which would still be in the armory for storage and reserve purposes. If the story was broadened, it would probably show the other Sheriff's deputy's taking tactical rifles and carbines to employ them in the field. [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]

:One thing that always struck me as "unrealistic" about TWD has been the types and and amounts of guns depicted in seasons 1 and 2, along with the feelings of some of the characters toward guns. The setting for this show all along has been in Georgia, which in real life is a "red" pro-gun southern state with a longtime history of private gun ownership among a large percentage of the population. So far on TWD however, the way in which guns have been depicted seems somewhat more as if the show's setting has been in a "blue" anti-gun northeastern state like New Jersey!

:In real-life Georgia, I have no doubt that there are many civilians who own at least one semi-automatic rifle chambered for a military cartridge and a few high-capacity magazines for it, and that number probably increased by even more after Obama got elected in 2008. Bearing this in mind, I can't see why there would not have been at least a few people in that survivor's camp outside Atlanta during season 1 armed with something more than just hunting firearms and handguns. The two "redneck" characters in season 1 - Merle and Daryl - they would have both had tactical-type rifles and hidden caches of ammunition for them if it had been up to me. Rednecks in real life have been stockpiling ammunition ever since Obama got elected. Plus, seasons 1 and 2 have had two former cops in the group - Rick and Shane - but neither one of them have ever seen the need to acquire better firepower. There were M4's and other weapons scattered all around the outside of the CDC in season 1, but nobody thought to pick any of them up. If I had been Rick, I would have been constantly telling everybody else in the group all throughout seasons 1 and 2 to keep gathering up guns and ammunition whenever possible. That one black bag Rick loaded up at the police station's armory in the first episode of season 1 could not possibly have held enough ammunition to last all the way to the end of season 2.

:Then there were the anti-gun sentiments among some members in the group - Lori in season 1 and 2, and Hershel in season 2. Lori's objections to her son Carl learning how to shoot struck me as being a bit odd. Lori is supposed to be a housewife from a small town in the South who is married to a cop, not a soccer mom with a career from a liberal anti-gun upbringing. Being that Carl is the son of a southern small town cop, I think it would have been more realistic if he had already learned a few things about shooting from his dad Rick long before the outbreak. Hershel's attitude towards guns struck me as being most odd. Hershel is supposed to be a cattle rancher from rural Georgia, so when he said that he did want his property to become an "armed camp" from the group carrying guns around, I was shaking my head by then. Cattle ranchers in real life often have to keep a gun handy to kill coyotes and other pests. I doubt that coyotes would stay away from a farm or ranch with livestock on it after a zombie apocalypse starts. I would have to say that Hershel seemed to redeem himself later in season 2 when he said that he knew how to shoot, although he did not like to. In the season 2 finale however, Hershel seemed to be very much into showing off his shooting skills. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:43, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::I just want to say a couple of things about this rant. First, you are being very stereotypical about the South, thinking that everyone is a gun-toting redneck. I can speak from experience because I am from the most anti-gun state in the country, Massachusetts, I think I can guarantee that there are at least a few people living in the South who don't like firearms. Like I said, I am from Massachusetts, but I like guns, unlike most of the state and most of the Northeast for that matter, except New Hampshire of course. Also, the show takes place a few weeks after the zombie outbreak, most of the people with the military caliber firearms have probably long since left and moved to places they would think was safer. About Rick teaching Carl to shoot guns, he is a cop, so maybe he has seen people get badly hurt by guns, so he didn't want anything to happen to Carl. Hershel knows how to shoot pretty well. I am guessing by his hate for guns, he probably faced some kind of horrible incident in the past that resulted from him using a gun. Again, this is just speculation. In the season 2 finale, Hershel showed his shooting skills because by this time, his outlook on the undead had completely changed. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:01, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::We love our guns up here in New Hampshire! Rick teaching Carl about guns is a good thing and something that is needed. He'll be needing to use that gun more considering how the world has become with the Zombies. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:57, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::::Oh no, I completely agree with teaching Carl to use guns after the zombie outbreak, but I mean before the outbreak maybe Rick didn't have any motivation to teach his son to use guns, that's all. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:36, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::SmithandWesson36, have you been to the South much? I have. I have been to most of the southern states myself, and not just to the large cities and tourist spots, either. I also live in a somewhat rural part of Pennsylvania - it's had some population growth over the last 15 years. Anyway, the point I was trying to make above is that these days, in the "red states" of the South and other rural areas, there are more tactical type rifles in the hands of "plain folks" civilians than ever before. It's more than some people may even realize or want to admit, and the buyers are not necessarily ones who fit the "redneck" mold. Case in point: Not long after Obama was elected in 2008, the biggest gun shop in my area was packed every time I went in to browse. The gun shop's employees were often telling me back then that they could not keep up with the demand for semi-auto rifles chambered in .223 Remington. I made some small talk there once with a single mom, who seemed articulate enough, not a redneck type, etc. She was with her teenage son - they were there to buy her first gun. She bought a Yugo SKS rifle. (I think she wanted to buy an AR type rifle at first, but the SKS was much cheaper.) Also in 2008, I went to several parts of North Carolina at different times that year. I noticed that even the small pawn shops in the suburban "Research Triangle" area of NC had at least one or two AK type rifles. Plus, every time I have been to either of the two shooting ranges that I regularly go to, there has always been at least one person there shooting his or her own AR type rifle. Based upon my own personal experiences such as these, this is part of the reason why wrote what I did above. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 01:11, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Originally this started out as a discussion about why a police precinct would have hunting firearms in the armory. I don't really know how we got into the portrayal of red state/blue state issues in the show and about who personally owns what and why as opposed to something else.

As to the anti-gun bias on the show, I believe that it's to some degree understandable when considering everything. Rick and Shane are police officers, their training dictates that firearms not in the hands of fellow officers are a threat to their safety. Even if the dead have started walking that training is still with them and they're going to be relying on what they know. Hershel's stance is understandable because he sees the Walkers as sick people in need of help, not open slaughter like what was possibly being shown on the news reports. He understands that the survivors don't see things his way and would rather shoot a Walker rather than help it and he wants to prevent that...at least until after Shane opens his eyes to the truth. Lori is a mother and worries about the safety of her son, possibly because so many kids get shot and killed each year and was afraid of contributing to that. It's also possible she's opposed to the idea of Carl learning to shoot because it doesn't jive with her hopes of the world returning to what is used to be when there was order and safety. It's possible she views the idea of her child growing up cold and hard is just another nail in the coffin of the world having any sort of order to it again and she doesn't want to be swinging that hammer. --[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

:Thank you, Ballistics_Expert, that's exactly what I was trying to say. I wasn't arguing anything about red state/blue state, I'm simply stating that not everyone single person in the South loves guns and some are opposed to them. I didn't mean anything political by that, I just meant that anywhere you go, there will be people who disagree with the common concensus of the area. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:37, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

...and back to the subject...reason would lead one to believe the other cops already took the duty guns at the begining and all that was left was confiscated guns left in the evidence locker or something.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 14:44, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:Plausible, considering Shane's M4-stocked Mossy sort of stands out from the rest of the group's guns. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:29, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::I don't know about anyone else here, but my experience with firearms and viewing preferences with firearms-related TV shows is much more based in real life than in make-believe. I shoot my semi-auto tactical rifles and 1911 pistols on a regular basis and I know many other people who do likewise. I have been to gun shops, gun shows, and gun ranges all over this country. TWD is the only fictional TV show that I am into these days - all the other ones I watch are the "reality" shows on History Channel, Discovery, NatGeo, etc. ("Sons of Guns"/"Doomsday Preppers"/"American Guns"/"Top Shot" - just to name a few.) If you watch shows like these, have been to the South as often as I have been, have been around many gunners like I have, and have seen what I have seen, you probably also would have been a bit disappointed to see how nobody in season 1 of the TWD already had at least one modern semi-auto tactical carbine, or even an older military surplus rifle such the M1 Garand or the SKS. I have already tried to point out how it is actually quite common in real life for civilians in "red" states like Georgia to own semi-auto rifles such as these, and it's not just the hardcore "redneck" types who own them now - it's more like people from all walks of life instead. As a matter of fact, due to an overwhelming demand from the civilian market, Sturm Ruger, America's largest gun maker, actually had to halt production temporarily just this week. Bearing all of this in mind, this is why I say that it should not have even mattered if Rick and Shane's hometown police station's armory had already been looted of all the tactical carbines. As for some people in the South being anti-gun/non-gun-owners, sure, they exist, but they are nowhere as nearly numerous as the anti-gunners/non-gun-owners are in a "blue" state up North like New Jersey, and these are exactly the types of people who are mostly likely going to die first and die the most in a widespread zombie outbreak, simply because they will be totally unarmed before an outbreak begins. The percentage of lawful gun owners in most of the "red" states is 50% or greater. In most of the "blue" states, the percentage of lawful gun owners is as low as 10%.

::Now, one thing that did strike me as "realistic" about the depiction of "blue" states in TWD were the characters of Dave and Tony in the "Nebraska" episode. Both of them seemed to me as being very much "blue" state guys - it was as if they were two lost cast members of the "Jersey Shore" show or something. (Could you imagine having to rely on people like them during a zombie outbreak? Would you want "Snooki" or "the situation" in your survivor group?) What I mean by this is that Dave and Tony both acted like cocky jerks with chips on their shoulders. Dave actually did mention something about meeting Tony along Route 95 outside of Philadelphia, which is also rather close to the Jersey Shore for those of you who did not know this. Much like a great many of the "blue" state folks, neither Dave nor Tony were likely gun owners, or had had any firearms training prior to the zombie outbreak. Dave actually mentioned that he got his SIG pistol off a dead cop. For all we know, Dave was the one who killed that cop, in cold blood, no less. Tony had a sawn-off Mossberg HS12 - he was probably the one who cut the stock on it down, too. If that is what happened, then it just goes to show how clueless Tony was about guns in general. Just about everything Dave and Tony said and did in the "Nebraska" episode was ignorant, rude, and rubbed me the wrong way. How Rick handled Dave and Tony was one of the best decisions he made during all of season 2 as far as I am concerned. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 20:41, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Okay, I'm sorry, but I am still confused about why you keep bringing up "blue states" and "red states," all I am trying to say is that maybe all the modern, military caliber weapon wielding people left with their weapons to find better shelters out of a small town with no protection. I don't get what you mean by having people from the Jersey Shore as survivors in your group, I have a friend with relatives from the Jersey Shore who are not orange-skinned Italians. You also say that Dave and Tony are ignorant and rude because they come from a "blue" state? I'm sorry, but you are rudely stereotyping people, which has nothing to do with what this discussion is about. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:26, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Anyway, getting back to the original topic,there is an Android Walking Dead game made by AMC and explains the first events of the outbreak right after Rick got shot, all the way up to Shane heading to the hospital to save Rick. According to the game, there were only three officers at the station when the first zombies attacked, Shane, Leon, and someone named Don. Judging by the fact that there are times when only three officers are at the station, there are probably not too many officers in this small town. I think that the police force of this town might just have been too small for it to have the budget to buy tactical rifles and they didn't really have the need for more firepower than hunting firearms. How much crime can a tiny town have, right? This is obviously just speculation, but it is my opinion. Although the real reason for their weapons could just be that a zombie show would be boring if the survivors were untouchable because they had military-grade firepower and tons and tons of ammo. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:06, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Police Armory ==

Hello everybody. Pretty spirited discussion going on above. Okay first of all (don't know how applicable this is, but here goes) I'm a police officer. October 12, 2012 will make twelve years for me. I'm also in Idaho which is in the Northwest, but very much a Red State. My department has 63 sworn officers (full-time) and eight reserve officers. I think. Our city is closing in on 50,000 residents.

Our swat team is called TRT (Tactical Response Team). We have two snipers. Both are equipped with Remington 700 rifles in .308. The rifles have 18" heavy barrels, synthetic sticks, scopes, bipods ect. All the gee-whiz tactical stuff. The other TRT members are equipped with Colt AR-15 carbines (16" barrel) and all the various accoutrements that have come to be assocaited with the AR-15 platform in the past decade. TRT officers are issued their rifles by the department.

Other offcers who wish to carry an AR-15 have to purchase the rifle out of their own pocket and attend a week long class. They have to qualify with the rifle at the end of the week if they hope to carry the rifle. The department supplies forty rounds for the rifle.

If you don't want to purchase a rifle you can carry a Remington 870 Police shotgun (supplied by the department) in 12 gauge, but it isn't mandatory.

We are issued either a [[Glock 21]] (45acp) or a [[Glock 19]] (9mm) if the 21 is too large and so on. I carry the [[Glock 19]] and I am also authorized to carry the [[Glock 26]] and the [[Smith & Wesson Model 36 / 38#Smith & Wesson Model 38/49|Smith & Wesson Model 49 Bodyguard]] as my backups and off duty pieces.

Only a couple years before I joined my department the TRT officers were carrying the [[Ruger Mini-14]] with the wooden stock and the [[Remington 870]] shotgun - also with the wooden stock. There was just one sniper and he carried the [[Savage 10/110 Series Rifles|Savage 110]] in .243 also outfitted with a wooden stock.

Officers were allowed to carry whatever type of semi-auto handgun they wanted as long as it was in 9mm, 40S&W or 45 acp. We didn't go to issuing Glocks until 2006.

So as you see it only been over the past fifteen years (more or less) that my department has gotten "modern". I can guarantee that there are many smaller departments out there (in the U.S.) that are still playing catch-up. So the police gun vault that we see in the first episode isn't that difficult to believe in. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:41, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

==Herschel's Shotgun==
is it just me or did herschel's shotgun have like unlimited ammo, cause he was just laying those shells into the zombies like a boss

:Yeah, I was thinking that too, when I watched the episode. I think he reloaded maybe once, and was able to get off upwards of 20 shells out of that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:08, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::Yep. Evidently I wasn't around when the local Cabelas was selling the special Remington 870 "Hollywood" configuration. Darn it. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:16, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Herschel's SIG ==

Is it just me or does it look a tad too short to be a P226? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 00:11, 29 March 2012 (CDT)
:It also has a rounded trigger guard which makes it a P228/ --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:46, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

==Mossberg HS12==
Uh, are there ANY other screencaps of this gun? The one we have does NOT prove that it is a Mossberg HS12 on its' own. I'm sure that there are other screenshots available (I don't work on this page so I count on others to do it). But right now it is a vague and nondistinct image and thus a new gun page for the Mossberg HS12 was created just for this one entry. We need to verify that this gun ID is correct. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:55, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Season 3 Mystery suppressed Gun ==

Just found this image online. It's apparently a season 3 sneak peek snapshot. What is Rick holding? Almost looks like a two tone glock with a stielhandgranate taped to it, stick pointing towards us.... but its obviously not=P
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/4/46/Rick.JPG
:Definitely looks like a glock. The can looks like a big Mag-lite to me. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] 21:33, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

I'm making an assumption, but it's safe to say it's the same Glock 17 he used in the season 2 finale. Seems like he will be using this pistol along with his Colt Python a lot next season. The suppressor was a pleasant surprise. Given the situation in the show, it's probably just a crude, homemade suppressor made with whatever materials he could scrounge.

I think it might be one of the Russian PBS suppressors, I have to agree with ^ it is good to see a suppressor for once when facing zombies.[[User:Recon42|Recon42]]

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-04-08T15:04:22Z

Recon42:

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Just about everything in the military has a designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:10, 10 March 2012 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

More funny stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxsbTjPe2fs&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::An LRSR mission with the Barrett like the one in CoD4 would have been awesome to have in BF3. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)
:Holy crap, I thought that was a real Marine in that pic at first! :O [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

:You have no idea how grateful I am to see this in a neat compilation! Been looking everywhere for just these designs to no avail. -- Long Fallen 02:46, 2 March 2012 (CST)
I think the QBB-95 is a totally made up frankengun. However the core of it is actually an Enfield L85, you can tell by the vent holes on the receiver: 3 horizontal vents at the rear, then a slightly larger gap followed by two slightly smaller vents. Also visible is the raised portion on the bottom edge of the upper receiver which runs horizontally under these vent holes, and the pistol grip and trigger guard seem to match. On top it seems to be a grossly oversized M4/M16A4 detachable carry handle, and the front is anyone's guess. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:56, 2 March 2012 (CST)
::Yeah, I think you're right. It also has the generic bipod most guns in BF3 use, Harris Bipod I think it's called. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::Not important? Any info is very welcome on this site! In fact, I was wondering this myself. -- Long Fallen 02:48, 2 March 2012 (CST)

::Yeah, most definitely. We welcome clarification on any component or add-on used in the game. IMFDB's priorities are much different than those of game-based wikis. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:31, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Do you guys think we should have a section for the attachments in the game, since there are so many? For most games it wouldn't be necessary, but here there are 12 different optics, the aftermarket irons, KAC foregrip, Harris bipod, six (I think) suppressors, PEQ-2, pistol laser sight, and a tac light. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:Yes, please include the info on which flash suppressors and other accessories are being used on which guns in the screenshots (as well as an addendum at the end of the page outlining just which real-life firearm accessories are in the game). There are many of us not in the know who would like to learn about them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:32, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

== 3 Expansions planned for BF3 ==

[http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/07/battlefield-3-close-quarters-announced.aspx 3 Expansions planned for BF3]

Newest expansion has 10 new guns, what are you guys thinking/hoping they will be? I'm hoping for a USP, perhaps another pump action shotgun,maybe a TAR or a Galil, and an XM8 (wishful thinking on that last one, but they put the Jackhammer in, so why not?) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 18:20, 7 March 2012 (CST)

EDIT: Can someone fix that link please? I'm not very good at this clearly.

Me being the AR fanboy that I am, I just want a short barreled AR (10 inches prefferably). cheech98 9:28, 7 March 2012

:HK416. I'd like to see another pump shotty and some pistols at the least. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:49, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Already spoken for; the M416 is the 10" 416.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:16, 8 March 2012 (CST)

Definitely a pump shotgun, maybe an Ithica or a Mossberg with wood furniture (because with black furniture it would look too much like the 870). I would like to see an AK in 7.62x39. I was honestly appalled that BF3 didn't feature a .30 cal AK. An MP5, a Hi-Power, a CZ-75 and a SIG-Sauer would also be nice; a non-tacticool FAL, maybe an FNC (always loved that gun), a Skorpion (come on, who doesn't wanna shoot that thing in a video game), the VZ-58, the HK P7 perhaps? The HK33 would be an awesome weapon to see (although admittedly not too plausible), an Uzi (full size or mini, doesn't really matter to me), a Makarov (still common among the Russian Armed Forces, right?), the P99, and MORE REVOLVERS, DAMMIT. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 02:04, 8 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I think if they added the FAL, it wouldn't be tacticool, seeing as how the G3A3 wasn't. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:32, 11 March 2012 (PST)

:Rumours are circulating that two such weapons in Close Quarters Pack are the CZ-75 Automatic is one such pistol as a competition towards the G18 and 93R and a new sniper rifle, the CZ-750 for the Recon. Also two new vehicles rumored are the UH-60 Blackhawk and M2A2 Bradley IFV. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:07, 9 March 2012 (CST)

::But isn't the CQ Pack gonna take place entirely indoors? I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that the four maps in the next pack are going to feture entirely infantry-based, indoors combat. I guess I could see a helicopter working in there somewhere (thinking of the Airport map's chopper-gunners on MW2, I suppose) but it seems like vehicles would break the tense, room-to-room air they're going for here. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 3:56, 13 March 2012 (EST)

The HK33 is actually in the game already, in the Back to Karkand expansion pack as the 'G53' or something like that. *EDIT* Nevermind, you meant the full size rifle, my mistake...
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

It's gonna be a bunch of CQB guns, no doubt. I'd like to see (Assault Rifles) Tavor TAR-21 and the Masada. (Carbines) AKMs and the AUG A3. (Machine Guns) LSAT and the IMI Negev (Snipers) VSS Vintorez and the DSR-1 (Submachine Guns)MP5 PDW and the Colt R0991 9mm. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 16:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year, I think we are going to have our hands full identifying all them because it ain't just firearms either, they're adding a slew of vehicles with each pack as is the norm with this supposed DLC's. "Close quarters" I think is mostly gonna be all transport vehicles so I suspect, possibly Technicals, Civilian Vehicles, maybe an aerial transport helicopter/plane or light attack scout helicopters, possibly light IFV's too. Weapons are likely to be CQB in nature, I'm hoping for alot of Sub-Machine Gun's and Shotguns, the game needs more Pump Shotguns in my opinion. My general wish-list includes:

* SA58 OSW Battle Rifle and Type 95 Assault Rifle (to round out the Chinese Firepower in BF3, almost the full collection now) for the Assault Kit
* Zastava M92 (Compact AK47 Variant) and the Mark 18 Mod 0 (Ultra compact AR) and possibly the QLZ-87 Automatic Grenade Launcher (as an Anti-Vehicle Weapon, replaces the Rocket Launcher) for the Engineer
* MG3 GPMG and L86A2 (Equivalent to BF3's RPK and M27, gotta have more weapons like those for the Support Kit)
* Mark 12 SPR (American equivalent of the SKS in BF3) and CZ-750 for the Recon
* CZ-75 Auto, H&K MP5, Mossberg 590 Pump Shotgun (if it was a secondary for the Assault I'd be in love with it), TOZ-194, Valtro PM-5, Sawn Off Double Barrel, Benelli M3 Super 90, Smith & Wesson 686, SIG P226, H&K USP, QSZ-92 and FN Five SeveN are just some examples of all kit weapons I'd love to see.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:56, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:If they added the QLZ-87, it would be '''''WAY''''' overpowered. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:28, 12 March 2012 (PST)

:Dunno about the QLZ-87, man. I'd think most Battlefield players are already sick of overpowered, hand-held weapons that can auto-fire frags. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 4:03, 13 March 2012 (EST)

"There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year" 
Thirty weapons in each pack? Are you kidding me? BtK had eight weapons. And how do you know all the packs will have weapons in?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:37, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:Actually, BtK had ten weapons, and he meant at least 30 overall, he just stated it wrong. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 3:28, 9 March 2012 (PST)

They just released a new trailer that shows off some of the weapons in the first expansion pack, I only saw two but there may be more hidden throughout, the ones I saw were the L86A1 and the ACR(I assume it was the ACR, it was however called "ACW-R", I'm seeing a trend with Magpul weapons here with the PDR being renamed the PDW-R. (PS. sorry if I screwed up the formatting, this is my first entry.)
After further searching the complete list seems to be AUG, SPAS-12, ACW-R(ACR), L86A1 LSW, LSAT, MTAR-21, SCAR-L. However some people claim to have spotted the CZ-75 Auto. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 12:38, 13 March 2012 (CET)

:Good catch Spry, I watched the trailer twice carefully and found the same. I'll make it a list so it's easier to see. As with Karkand we should avoid adding anything new to the main page until we have more to add. I'm assuming the same weapon layout as Karkand until I hear something solid about that full auto CZ-75, maybe it has a stock and is a PDW? I'm also assuming what go to what classes, can't really go wrong there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:47, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

*Assault: SCAR-L (misspelled as SCARL-L; I tweeted Demize)
*Assault: AUG (variant unknown)
*Engineer: ACR (as ACW-R, like PDW-R)
*Engineer: MTAR-21
*Support: L86A1
*Support: LSAT
*Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)
*Recon: ???
*All Kit: "M5K" (don't know what it is, described as M5K tactical machine pistol)
*All Kit: SPAS-12

LIST EDITED

::I'm excited to see the AUG and the MTAR, but the ACR and SCAR-L... while I have nothing against them (in fact, I really like them) aren't they a bit... implausible? As for the LSAT... HELL. NO. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:15, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Not sure if this is on the up and up, but people are talking about the Recon weapons being the HK417 and the CZ-750 (these are were supposedly found buried in some code in a leaked beta build), and with both of these weapons having an effective range of about a thousand meters, this seems plausible. However others are claiming there will be no Recon weapons in this expansion, which seems like it would a stupid move on DICE's part. In addition people are saying the ACR will be a carbine with a 25+1 capacity, and that the SCAR-L will be the assault rifle weapon (seems odd to have a the 7.62 variant as a carbine and the 5.56 variant as an assault rifle, but oh well). Others say the second All Kit weapon will be something called an M5K? I'm not sure what that is. Again none of this was shown in the trailer, however some people claim to have seen the CZ-750 in the trailer, but it's such a poor view that it could just as well be the SV-98. Also, BF3 fans work fast, someone made these mock ups of the stats screens for the guns: http://imgur.com/a/iOlAQ [[User:Spry|Spry]] 03:08, 14 March 2012 (CET)

::::After thinking about it a bit, I'm starting to think the M5K is meant to be the MP5K, when you consider that they've renamed a couple of H&K weapons like the HK53 and the HK416, it's plausible that they had some licensing issues with H&K like they seem to have had with Magpul and Glock (No surprise there, considering how notoriously protective Glock is of their brand), So they probably just renamed it the M5K. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 10:29, 14 March 2012 (CET)
:::::Either that, or they misspelled it, like they did the SCAR-L. And if the MP5 doesn't have H&K's name in its name, they probably wouldn't have to rename it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:18, 14 March 2012 (PST)
::::::You also have to take into account that some of the weapons used by said classes in the trailer could just be kits they picked up in the middle of the battle, perhaps to throw off the assertion of which one belongs to who. I'm just glad the L86A1 is in there, finally another British weapon added, just add a Browning Hi-Power or a SIG P226 and I'm set! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:38, 14 March 2012 (CDT)Draco122

An M203A2 would be a nice addition, since the Marines don't use the M320. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:12, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

I thought this belonged here, since we're on the subject of expansions, here's a HUGE list of updates in this upcoming patch.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/#!/bf3/news/view/2832654779195992365/ [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 01:56, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

"Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)" TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:59, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

== L96 Irons?! ==

What in the holy hell is that garbage?! finally a rifle with good iron sights and the stick a SECOND front sight on the end of the receiver rail... for a whopping 7" sight radius... dear god what a disappointment. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]]
:As a side note, that isn't an L96 front sight, looks more like the one that is on the G22 (German variant of the AWM). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:39, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
::Hahaha, that was my reaction too. The sights will be fixed in that big patch that should be out this month. It was on that huge notes list. EDIT: I think the BF3 rifle IS the G22; folding stock & front sight. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/G22_ohne_Schalldaempfer.jpg here][[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:55, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:AI AW G22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|G22 - .300 Winchester Magnum]]

: question on the L96, what is it chambered in? It should be .300 Winchester Magnum (I think?) but the ingame description says 7.62mmx51mm NATO... [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 00:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
::The standard Arctic Warfare is chambered in either .243 Winchester or 7.62x51mm NATO. However, the in game gun is modelled on a magnum rifle (can tell by the size of the magazine) which is chambered in .300 Winchester of .338 Lapua. The caliber is correct for the name of the gun, but wrong for the model it actually is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:00, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
:Keep in mind most of the calibres are wrong for the Back To Karkand guns, like the QBs being 5.45mm [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:40, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Shortcuts ==

I was on the 360 Marketplace this week, looking for new Add-ons for any of my games when I came across several for Battlefield 3. They are class specific and cost 560 Microsoft points apiece or you can get the ultimate bundle which includes Air, Ground and Co-Op 'shortcuts' for a whopping 3200 points. What a shortcut entails is basically a free pass to getting ALL of the specific kits weapons, attachments and gadgets thereby bypassing the experience system if someone has the credits.

In short, this is a noob's wetdream. Personally, I think they should rename the Ultimate Shortcut Bundle to the Ultimate Lazy Bastards Bundle. Thankfully all of the shortcuts have been getting pretty low reviews. Thoughts? --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 16:28, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

:Wait, it includes weapon attachments? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:24, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Every other game is dumbed down for casual gamers to blow through in an hour. Why is this any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Shortcuts are gay. 'nuff said. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 17:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm not too happy about shortcuts either, but did you really have to use gay as a way to insult it? [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42

== SPAS-12 = Pump-Action? ==

I was watching the part of the Close-Quarters Expansion Pack trailer where it showed the SPAS-12, and it looked like it was operating in pump-action mode. Is anyone else disappointed by this? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

I'm actually quite glad, I was quite disappointed with the lack of pump-action shotguns in game. I guess they could say it's an SAS-12 so it's a pump-action only variant in real life. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42

Talk:Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City

2012-04-02T11:42:51Z

Recon42: /* Shotgun and AM rifle */ new section

Not realy sure how to add pictures, but here the picture of the MP7 that "Four Eyes

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:40d7ef1ba905ef42438ddf49af875be4.jpg#file

I think the only problem I have with this game is that the graphics look nowhere as good as RE5's. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:49, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Newest Game Informer shows two new members of the U.S.S. and a screenshot of Leon holding what looks like a Samurai Edge instead of the Glock. I just have no way of providing a screenshot or scan. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 13:38, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

:Is it just me or do the weapon models look like crap compared to RE5's weapon models. (*sad face*) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:51, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

== Bolt-action Rifle ==

Sako 75 or Remington 700?

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:RemingtonPSS700.jpg

:I think it does look more like a Remington 700. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:43, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

== WTH! ==

Who the frick messed up the page! It was good after I last edited it and now it's all half-assed! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:30, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

-That's the problem with wiki pages: ANYONE can edit them. --[[User:E2theSamps|E2theSamps]] 21:41, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

== Wow ==

Not sure what to think of all the anachronistic weapons in this game. I can understand wanting to make the game as fun as possible, but appealing to the MW/BF fanbois isn't going to do the game any favors. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 22:34, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

Agreed. I'm a BF fanboy but seriously the anachronism here is as bad as CODBO. For 1998 there were plenty of weapons they could have used for the game's line up. --[[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 01:42, 16 February 2012 (PT)

== "Arbiter" M16A4 sniper rifle ==

No one else thinks it's more likely to be a very poorly modelled SR-25?

:No, it's diffidently not a SR-25, One big give away is the Arbiter has a forward-assist which the SR-25 does not possess, also the magazine is 5.56x45mm sized not 7.62x51mm sized. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:23, 31 October 2011 (CDT)

There were flat top AR-15 variants before the M16A4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:37, 19 December 2011 (CST)

And an A4-type rifle like the one shown could be easily mocked up by an enterprising SOF soldier with existing components by replacing an A2 upper with a long-barreled M4 upper. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:26, 11 January 2012 (CST)

== Mystery Pre-order Bonus Weapons ==

Some very ugly renders were shown at the end of the most recent ORC "Heroes" trailer. Can't tell what many of them are.
http://vegivo.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/325163_288097721211122_185275861493309_961217_884375225_o.jpg

== Fictional Grenade Launcher ==
I was looking Inserted Evil's Files, and when I came across this fictional Grenade launcher, my first tought was a B&T GL-06 ([[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:B%26T-GL-06.jpg]]) , because of some shapes that matched. Now I have 2 theories: 1- its a modified B&T or...
2- It's a fictional grenade launcher based on the B&T, but "customized by kendo", or different so they didn't have to pay any gun maker comany for the rights of the gun (like they did with some magnums, silver ghost and blacktail in previous games). Hope you excuse my english :) --[[User:Thebarry1394|TheBarry1394]] 19:48, 19 December 2011 (CST)

== Pre-Order GL ==

Looking at the pre-order grenade launcher, it looks a lot like the Brugger and Thomet GL-06 (Also seen in Brink) --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 03:48, 11 January 2012 (CST)

== Sorry ==
I couldn't figure out how to post a picture on the main page of this article and make it not show up as a worded link so I posted it as a external link. Sorry. Also I found a picture of Ada Wong holding what looked like a Beretta 93R but I couldn't tell because the barrel of the gun was facing the photo, I thought I saw the folding grip for it but I need confirmation from someone. Also the RE Wikia incorrectly states that this unknown Beretta is her Blacktail. [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120119175348/residentevil/images/9/9f/Hair_%3D0.jpg]
--[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 22:23, 24 January 2012 (CST)

== Shotgun and AM rifle ==

The shotgun that is based off the Neostead has the receiver of a TAR 21 and the carry handle of a G36 series. The anti-materiel rifle seems to be based off of the Barrett M98 Bravo with a magpul UBR stock and modified to semi auto. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 06:42, 2 April 2012 (CDT)Recon42