Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Resident Evil 2 (2019)

2020-04-01T04:32:38Z

P226: /* Sign in Kendo's Gun Shop */

== Miscellaneous ==
===D80 bayonet===
The combat knife is based on the D80 bayonet, a Chinese copy of the US M9 bayonet.

== Ingram ==

I believe that the Ingram used by Claire in the GamesCom 2018 Demo is a Model 10, not an 11. I have here two screen shots as evidence.

[[File:Claire_RE2R_Ingram2.jpg|thumb|none|600px| Ejection Port]]
First, as can be seen here, the ejection port seems to be both rather large, and with a very narrow distance to the back of the receiver. I believe this to be a good indication as to the model.

[[File:Claire_RE2R_Ingram.jpg|thumb|none|600px| Left side]]
Second - and, to me, most important - is the lack of the twin indented rails of a Model 11 on the left side of the receiver, seen here on this screen shot.

Combined with the size of the weapon, and the sound effect used being "beefier" than that of Claire's .38 caliber Bodyguard, I have good confidence that the Ingram is, indeed, a Model 10 - and in .45ACP, not 9x19mm.

== Hi Power Mk. III ==
JMB means John Moses Browning, how do you not know this? [[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 06:51, 9 October 2018 (EDT)
: Looks like you weren't the only one left scratching their head at this oversight. I actually had to squint and ask myself "are they serious?" --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 02:35, 16 October 2018 (EDT)

== Unidentified Pistol ==

Ada Wong is seen with an unidentified pistol, pointing it at Leon. I believe it is a Mauser HSc. Can someone confirm? (I apologize about the link, it's not letting me post the picture directly.) --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 10:49, 12 October 2018 (EDT)

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/residentevil/images/0/04/Resident-Evil-2_2018_09-20-18_020.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180920135416

[http://www.imfdb.org/images/4/4e/Mauser_HSC.jpg www.imfdb.org/images/4/4e/Mauser_HSC.jpg]

: You can see it more clearly in this cutscene.

: https://youtu.be/wQAH4ey3YQE?t=185

: I think it's just a standard Makarov.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:: I think the OP is right in saying its a Mauser HSc, this image pretty much gives a much better look, gameplay of it so far seems to show it hold 9 rounds which to me, makes me think its the .32 ACP version with 8+1. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 09:52, 16 December 2018 (EST)
[[File:Resident-evil-2-remake-ada-wong-1135332.jpeg‎|300px|thumb|none|alt text]]

== Clear inventory shots ==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4mivEgXFbI

This video has clear inventory shots of many of the weapons and their modified status.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== Demo datamined ==

We're a few weeks out from the game's release, but inventory icons of all the weapons were found in the demo's files.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/998bc7463fb697c68d097b085fea079b/tumblr_pl7syjLRW41se6ntfo1_1280.jpg

The game uses non-real names like Matilda for the VP70, and some of them are franken-guns to allow "parts" to turn them into newer more powerful guns, but in the file strings are a list of real gun names:

H&K USP

H&K VP70

Browning HP

"HP (Ada)" (her Mauser)

Colt S.A.A.

S&W M60 LadySmith

Remington M1100-P

MAC11

MP5

Desert Eagle .50AE

S&W 329

M79

Sparkshot

Flamethrower

Gatling gun

Rocket launcher

Infinite rocket launcher

"Sexy gun" with some sort of ammo or power gauge

You can also spawn and use the weapon upgrades for the VP70 and Shotgun.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

Is it a copyright issue the reason why this series has stopped using real names of guns? They really should of kept the real ammo capacity of the VP70. There was never a balance issue with it in the original game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:27, 16 January 2019 (EST)

We do know for a fact that the deluxe editions will have the Samurai Edge and Wesker's gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:17, 16 January 2019 (EST)

== Desert Eagle ==

I went ahead and added an entry for the "Lightning Hawk", AKA, the Desert Eagle. The model in-game is a bit hard to figure out (specifically the safety; I don't recognize it at all), so I had to guess a bit on it being a Mark XIX (I ended up looking at the height of the cocking serrations). If anyone thinks it's a different model, feel free to change that. [[User:Riverstyx|Riverstyx]] ([[User talk:Riverstyx|talk]]) 02:15, 27 January 2019 (EST)

== Wesker's pistol ==

I might be reaching a bit here, but the blocky frame and beaver tail really remind me of the Tanfoglio CZ75 style pistols. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 19:18, 27 January 2019 (EST)

== Replacing all the old images ==

I suggest that all the pre-release images should be replaced, a they're either taken from trailers or early gameplay videos, which tend to be blurry. The profile view image of the in-game Browning and M79 for example is a screenshot from a video, and even includes the watermark of the video uploader. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 12:38, 28 January 2019 (EST)
:I agree, I also think the "Unidentified Revolver" entry should be removed from the main page, there's no picture or any information that could help users ID it. Should be moved to here for now IMO --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 12:53, 28 January 2019 (EST)
::Well, if anybody wants to help identify, [https://youtu.be/ilATDEj6tHY here's] the cutscene with Irons. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 13:18, 28 January 2019 (EST)
:::Looks like it could be an [[Alfa 840]] to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:33, 28 January 2019 (EST)
:::: Barrel profile reminds me of a Taurus raging bull or a Manurhin 93, but overall it also reminds me of a S&W PC model, though I can't quite explain why --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 13:36, 28 January 2019 (EST)
::::: It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 329. The full under lug, the sights, thumb piece, it could be a reused Smith and Wesson 329 from the other games. I don't know, I'd say Smith on account of reusing other properties. [[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 14:01, 28 January 2019 (EST)
::::: Think you're right Paddy, now that I've looked up a pic of that gun, it's exactly what I was thinking of when the idea that it's a Smith popped into my head. Matches up with the barrel profile too, the angular front. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 14:18, 28 January 2019 (EST)
:Shouldn't be too hard. I'm almost done with Leon's guns already and can start playing Claire's side to get pictures of her weapons as well. The M1911 expy is going to take some time, though, since I haven't unlocked Leon B yet. [[User:Shiro Okami|Shiro Okami]] ([[User talk:Shiro Okami|talk]]) 20:42, 28 January 2019 (EST)

== 1911 ==

It appears that the grip is partly based on a [https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImages/188971/984956808/wm_8943476.jpg Llama ] style pistol. Note the hump at the front of the mag well. I would add this myself but I'm not sure which Llama pistol it is as they're all quite similar, plus I'd rather have some confirmation from someone else. Also I am pretty bad at editing so if I tried to to add this, I'd probably just end up screwing up the entry. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 16:41, 30 January 2019 (EST)
:I already made a note of it on the [[Resident Evil 7]] page, where the model came from. Also if you don't know which specific model it is, just give it a generic description; don't try to force an identification when it's not possible. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 12:42, 4 February 2019 (EST)

And apparently the reason why Leon is holding is like that in this game is because that's how they had him hold it in the original [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:28, 5 February 2019 (EST)

Wuzh, I don't see what your issue is. I pointed out a feature and provided a link that clearly shows what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to "force an identification when it's not possible". I did give a "generic description", it's a Llama 1911 style pistol. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 19:00, 6 February 2019 (EST)
: OK. Nothing wrong then. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 19:27, 6 February 2019 (EST)

Not only the hump, the inclined notches on the slide are taken from there. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 09:21, 8 February 2019 (EST)
:Can someone who knows more than me add to the description which bits come from which gun? Atm it's just info pertaining to gameplay and some seemingly random pics of 3 different guns below. --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 08:53, 4 March 2019 (EST)

== Using the in-game names ==

So I noticed the in-games names for the weapons seem to be used in the captions on a lot of game pages recently. Do you guys want to keep it like that or should I change them to their real life names like I usually do? [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 04:49, 22 February 2019 (EST)
:I would say keep things as is. Different editors have different writing styles. I personally use a mix of in-game names and real life names, and both styles have their benefits. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 04:57, 22 February 2019 (EST)
::I mean that works for semi-fictional or hybrid guns, I'm not much for that when it is straight up a real gun. I dunno. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 22:37, 24 February 2019 (EST)

== Sparkshot ==

I thought fictional weapons were a no-no on here, or is it just included to complete the page as every other gun is real? --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 21:21, 27 February 2019 (EST)
:I originally added the section because the original RE2 page had the flamethrower and sparkshot sections. So I guess they're more or less included just to complete the page. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 23:22, 27 February 2019 (EST)

== Sign in Kendo's Gun Shop ==
[[File:RE22019KendoGunShop.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

At first I thought EAA Witness, but the flat front of the trigger guard doesn't match. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 8 January 2020 (EST)
:Vektor SP1? [[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 05:59, 8 January 2020 (EST)
::No, I don't think so. The front of the trigger guard is near vertical, whereas the SP1's angles forward. Plus, the slide isn't quite as beefy as the SP1 and the SP1 lacks that rounded cutout at the top of the grip in the rear. Using those features as a base, it most resembles a [[Grand Power X-Calibur]] to me, but the Grand Power series seems to be a somewhat obscure pistol that I doubt would come up very near the top in any gun searches for Capcom to draw on. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:10, 8 January 2020 (EST)
:::Looks like a generic CZ-75 based handgun, more Bren Ten than Grand Power or EAA Witness and a Bren Ten would fit the era more than the other two. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 20:18, 8 January 2020 (EST)
Yeah just looks a regular ol' CZ75B.
---P226 00:32, 1 April 2020 (EDT)

Talk:Rainbow Six Siege

2018-11-18T18:17:21Z

P226: /* Wind Bastion - Moroccan operators */

==Already...==
It seem that the M1911 Variant has an incorrect 10 rounds in a 8 rounds magazine. There is IN FACT a 10 rounds magazine for M1911s but it seem it's not in this one --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]
[[File:10roundsm1911.jpg|thumb|600px|none|10 Rounds magazine .45 ACP for M1911 and Variants]]

== New footage ==

Numerous new features can be seen clearly here: the MP5 ingame is referred to as the MP5F and has an unusual crooked stock (12:17), there is a USP for the terrorists, various attachments for the G36C including an oddly-reticuled ACOG scope, and the identification (at least ingame) of the 1911 as the M45 MEUSOC. At this stage it would appear that the MP5 has replaced the Mac-10 as the terrorists' weapon of choice. [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN9CMGuyGvQ

== Alpha weapons ==

Someone leaked some footage of the Alpha so we can't "use" it, but it showed a FAMAS G2, P90, UMP, Mossberg 591A1, P226, HK33A2, S&W M586, FNP-9, and a stand-alone M320

There's also a MAC-11. Don't know if that's the same gun as what's labeled as the MAC-10.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:I am still waiting for the alpha key... Although I did answer that I don't play CoD, BF, nor Titanfall so maybe they won't even send the key... :( - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 03:32, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
::I watched this trailer on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWgOSimxoPs YouTube] and I screencapped an the UMP, FAMAS F1 and an assault rifle I didn't recognize. At first I thought it was an HK416 but then I noticed it has a charging handle on the right side of the gun. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:44, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6Siege assault rifle 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown assault rifle]]
[[File:R6Siege Famas.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS F1]]
[[File:R6Siege UMP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Untextured UMP]]
They released a bunch of official footage today. FMG9, 5-7 USG, HK417, SA80 with DD rails, SG 556 XI, Remington R4. I think a Glock was briefly shown in a loadout window. FAMAS G2 is an F1 despite the name.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:Here's a screencap from the official site, the same picture also appears in the end of some videos, and I think there's MPX with a suppressor as in the MPX-SD variant, but the weapon itself is about the same length as the basic variant. Perhaps we see it in a future video. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:03, 31 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6siege mpx.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Unidentified firearms ==

I'm entirely certain that the unidentified ''VSN'' is a ''Vityaz-SN'', [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/OSN_Saturn_special_purpose_unit_%28506-20%29.jpg a 9mm Parabellum submachine gun] in use with the Russian special units that belong to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, MVD. It is also used by some specialized police detachments, such as [http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/Interpolitex-2013/i-tF82bS7/0/O/Interpolitex2013part01-17.jpg Grom] of the Federal Drug Control Service.

The unidentified machine gun with a canted ammo box is actually a relatively well represented (as of late) ''PKP'' general purpose machine gun in an [http://i.imgur.com/gnAgMhX.jpg updated bullpup kit] by the Russian company Zenit. It was supposed to be used by special forces in close quarter urban combat apparently, but it didn't quite catch on. Still the initial batch was retained and could see limited action. Interestingly enough, Zenit is the same company that made the rail system and stock used by the Vityaz-SN. Ultimately, [http://www.zenitco.ru/files/pulemet2_1.jpg Zenit dropped the exotic bullpup kit] and went for something more conventional. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 10:06, 30 July 2015 (EDT)

: Thanks, those all seem correct. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== The M590A1 ==
I'm pretty sure that the M590A1 is the Blackwater variant as it has a picatinny rail on the receiver and it appears that the ghost ring is part of the rail. The inventory image also shows that it has the "Speed Feed" stock and the tri-rail handguard; both standard on the Blackwater variant. [[User:Majorcamo|Majorcamo]] ([[User talk:Majorcamo|talk]]) 22:21, 15 September 2015 (EDT)

== Vepr-12? ==

Are we absolutely certain that's a Molot Vepr and not actually a Saiga? It's missing the elongated magazine well typical of the Vepr. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 17:39, 30 November 2015 (EST)

== Flash-hiders ==

Am I the only the one noticed that every gun that has a flash-hider, sans the P90, has an A2 flash-hider? [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 00:15, 1 December 2015 (EST)

== Weapons actually used ==

How many of the weapons in this game are actually used by special forces (of whatever they are called) in real life? I've seen some GIGN guys use revolvers and SAS have used the MP5, but the L85, AK12 etc seems rather out of place.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 05:29, 1 December 2015 (EST)
:The L85 and AK12 fit the SAS and Spetsnaz factions respectively.....given said weapons origins. They may not be standard issue but it's safe to assume that high tier counterterrorist units have access to almost any weapon they want.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 13:04, 1 December 2015 (EST)
::The SAS never use L85s, they use L119A1s (Colt Canada C8 SFW, basically M4A1s), The Spetsnaz using AK-12s in not outlandish, as the AK-12 is going through field-trials now. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 18:46, 1 December 2015 (EST)

==MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST==
It seems the "MAC-11" is a MPA10SST [[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]] ([[User talk:James Dalcan|talk]]) 05:25, 4 December 2015 (EST)
[[File:MPA10SST.jpeg|thumb|none|400px|MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST]]

== Noticed something on the wall of the armory in Club House ==

[[File:Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® Siege_20160110214429.jpeg|400px|thumb]]
Spotted a Bizon, an RPG-7 and a very low resolution model of what it seems to me an AK-103 with wood furniture similar to the one in Far Cry 3^^

--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 15:45, 10 January 2016 (EST)DH20
:Nice picture, contains a lot of words.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:40, 10 January 2016 (EST)

Damn, sorry Its my first time posting in here, i was trying to get a screencap off my PS4 with the share button but couldn't do it, it seems :( but trust me i know what i saw AK.
--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 16:49, 10 January 2016 (EST)DH20
:Those are some shitty models, looks like the game is running on ultra low or something.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:58, 11 January 2016 (EST)

== P12/USP Tactical ==

Game says it's chambered in .45ACP, however weapon capacity is 15+1. Should it be 9mm, not .45ACP which has capacity of 10 or 12 in a mag? --[[User:-Sentinel-|-Sentinel-]] ([[User talk:-Sentinel-|talk]]) 15:29, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:I'd put "though it says it's a .45 it incorrectly holds 15+1 like a 9mm USP instead of 12+1 like a real USP45." [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 23:03, 7 February 2016 (EST)

== Leaked operator with SIG MPX ==
[[File:rainbow6siegeleakedoperator.jpg|500px|thumb]]
A friend linked me a leaked picture of an upcoming operator, supposedly a Navy SEAL, that seems to be wielding a [[SIG-Sauer MPX]] --[[User:Jaffaceksi|Jaffaceksi]] ([[User talk:Jaffaceksi|talk]]) 18:50, 13 February 2016 (EST)

==Browning Hi-Power==
The in game Hi-Power has an odd serrations on the slide, one side are all tight like in the ones pictured on the Hi-Power page, and the other side has them thicker and widely spaced similar to the one seen in [[Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops_2#Browning_Hi-Power|Call of Duty: Black Ops II]], is this an error, or is there a newer version that is like this? The only Hi-Power I've ever used was my Grandfathers old service piece from the 50's, and that one didn't have the variation between sides.--[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 12:59, 5 March 2016 (EST)

== Delta gun ==

From one of the Idris vids

http://s23.postimg.org/bg73fjsmj/ddd.png

Has an Army of Two style shield on the gun and the rail cover extends past the end of the barrel.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

==The MPX doesn't look right to me==
Look at the MPX's magazine well, it looks much too big for its round, and looks like it doesn't seat properly. By the way, is the article going to be updated soon to add the Operation: Dust Line weapons?

[http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/rainbowsix/images/6/68/R6S-mpx.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160511193901 Rainbow Six Siege MPX] [[User:CloversCorner|CloversCorner]] ([[User talk:CloversCorner|talk]]) 15:57, 11 May 2016 (EDT)
:Looks more like the magazine is misporportioned, wait until the final release. I'm kinda bummed that the new characters have super trope-y weapons like the Deagle and SPAS-12.....[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:01, 11 May 2016 (EDT)
::I'm more than bummed by the Desert Eagle. Rainbow Six Siege is supposed to be a realistic squad based game inspired by real units and the weapons and equipment they use. And then they stick a frigging Desert Eagle as a Navy SEAL sidearm. Pandering to the COD crowd. I'm rather pissed off that they did that. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 05:11, 12 May 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I just don't get it. I mean, the SCAR and the MK. 11 make sense, the MPX is okay with me, and the SPAS-12, well, it's not the most practical thing in the world, but it's not necessarily bad (although, with the 6+1 capacity, they may as well have used the compact model to fit in with the CQB theme). Still, seriously? A Desert Eagle? I mean, if you wanted a big, imposing handgun, you could go with a Mk. 23, which is infinitely more practical than the DE (though, granted, that's not exactly saying much), has been in previous R6 games, and was actually meant for the US military. Seriously, it's just downright illogical. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:19, 2 September 2016 (EDT)
::Looks like the magazine size is off. Took this myself. http://www.imfdb.org/images/4/4d/SIEGE_MPX.jpeg [[User:Zombiedrd|Zombiedrd]] ([[User talk:Zombiedrd|talk]]) 10:58, 12 May 2016 (EDT)

:::The mag-well's a bit bigger than it should be, the mags are a bit too short, and they are placed in the mag-well a bit too forward instead of in the center. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 12:56, 25 May 2016 (EDT)

== C8 barrel length ==

Not sure what to make of it, as it falls in between the SFW and CQB models. Looks to 11.5in..?
[[File:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-c8sfw-001.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[File:ColtCanada C8CQB.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
:It doesn't help that like all the assault rifles in the game, it has an A2 birdcage flash hider. When in doubt, I say it's closer to the CQB do to the short barrel, even if it's a little longer. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 12:48, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
::11.5" barrel would make it a Colt 933. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:59, 1 September 2016 (EDT)

== Other unusable wall weapons in Kafe Dostoyevsky ==

[[Image:R6SKafe.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Potato-quality because Xbone.]]
Presumably a pair of Colt SAA's, flintlock pistols, and some three barreled pepperbox revolver. These can be found in the room next to the train exhibit.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:19, 12 June 2016 (EDT)

:I'll also leave the Dust Line background image here:
:[[File:RSSKeymodAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|C-Clamp™]]
:--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:20, 24 June 2016 (EDT)

On the subject of unusable guns in menu screens, some menus include M6290 flashbangs. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 09:12, 1 September 2016 (EDT)
:And, for that matter, there's a Jericho 941 on the logo of Operation <s>No Refunds</s> Health. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 12:43, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

::[[File:RSS Villaweapons.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]] Also, there's a Vetterli and some simple looking rifle in the armory of the Villa level.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:38, 1 July 2018 (EDT)

== New guns in Skull Rain ==

Ok, so we are getting a Beretta M12, Spas-15 for the defender operator Caveira, while the offensive gets a M249, DSA SA58 and for sidearm there is a Beretta 92 series pistol (not sure on the model yet, probably a Taurus PT)

What are your thoughts? Personally i think we have enough of these shotgun-wielding gals but that's just me°-°
:It's nice to see a SPAS-15 pop up, but hopefully it isn't a copy-paste of Valkyrie/Frost's shotguns. I was kinda hoping one of them would shootdodge like Max Payne lol.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:09, 28 July 2016 (EDT)
:The M249 seems to fire at an unrealistically slow 690 RPM (probably lowered for balance reasons). Caveira's PT92 gets a super cool suppressor sleeve and apparently fires "non-lethal" ammo (despite her visibly killing someone during the gameplay demo...).

== Spotted a new gun ==

There is a S&W M&P in one of the posters seen in oregon, in the first set of beds on the dormitory, next to the west window, i'd love to upload the picture but i don't have the necessary means to do it :( Sorry.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 15:41, 31 August 2016 (EDT)

== Next DLC ==

So... the next DLC will consist of Japanese operators. I've heard speculation of a P229 or P220, a Benelli Supernova, a Howa Type 89, and a Mineba PM9. I'd also expect a Howa Type 64, and maybe an AR-18. Thoughts? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:23, 13 November 2016 (EST)
:It's been confirmed as the Supernova for both operators, the Type 89 for Hibana, and a MP5SD4 for Echo. Sidearms are the P229 and PM-9.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:59, 13 November 2016 (EST)

== SVU question ==

I played this for the free weekend that just concluded, and when I played the "Cold Zero" situation I saw no such red tint through the SVU's magnifier as the section for that gun mentions. I'm assuming it was removed at some point, given one of our screenshots shows it, and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_mhlFXZO98 this video] from just after release still has it, but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLYNI_r3Ik this one] from a month ago lacks it. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 18:36, 13 November 2016 (EST)
:It looks like it is still there, just toned down a bit (similar to in the initial release, your vision went very greyscale at low health).--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:32, 13 November 2016 (EST)

==Spanish Operators==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTke6uUPvNw

Looks like a Kriss Vector, Fabarm STF 12, Fabarm STF 12 Short, POF PSG, and Diemaco C7E. Can't tell if that USP is a new Compact model.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:are you sure it is a POF PSG and not an UDP-9? You can tell by the trigger guard but then again the PSG is in Ghost Recon: Wildlands and there it looks like a complete different model than the one portrayed in Siege.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 10:27, 6 February 2017 (EST)
::Looks like you're right. It has that tiny hole running through the boltcatch on the left, and the icon has that distinct strip just above the magwell.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
Somebody mentioned Diemaco C7 as NLD on reddit. Probably Colt Canada C7NLD. --[[User:-Sentinel-|-Sentinel-]] ([[User talk:-Sentinel-|talk]]) 11:19, 7 February 2017 (EST)
:Undoubtedly.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 12:28, 7 February 2017 (EST)

==Question==

Why this game stopped having updates?--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 11:32, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
:Except it's still being updated and current operation is [https://rainbow6.ubisoft.com/siege/en-us/news/152-289775-16/year-2-season-2-operation-health Operation Health]. It was updated in June 7, 2017 to 2.2.1 and next patch 2.2.2 is scheduled to sometime in July 2017. The point is: this operation doesn't bring any content updates like operators, weapons or maps (it will introduce Alpha Packs though aka lootboxes) and instead focuses on matchmaking and bug fixes. For new ops and maps you need to wait for August (if not September). --[[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 12:30, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

Thank you Terramax. It just looked weird that no Operations were made in almost 1 year.I dont own the game so I cant knew it.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 13:12, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

== Grzmot mines ID ==

Them look like a Polish WW2 mines, which I dont remember the names, any idea?
--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:47, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

== White Noise ==

Damn, we're going to need some new weapon images. They really made some odd picks- I don't even know what the SMG-2 ''is'', although I think it's based on an Uzi Pro pistol. On a different note, what do you guys think about these new operators? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:02, 20 November 2017 (EST)
:The "SMG-12" seems to be some sorta amalgamation of a Masterpiece Arms MAC variant with the folding stock of a Mini Uzi. The K1A is listed in game as an SMG, despite very clearly being a carbine (probably due to Daewoo referring to it as such), and the "M762" is more than likely a full length Beryl 7.62 with a ''disgusting'' thumbhole stock. Interestingly enough, it uses Western optics instead of Ruskie ones, which makes me question why they even gave her an AK to begin with. And, of course, that stupid airsoft gun from Wildlands has reared its head again. Thanks Canada. As for the ops themselves, I'm gonna go ahead and say real quick that Zofia is stupidly powerful. She gets all the utility of Ash, and she can revive herself. Why? Great question. But either way she's definitely gonna see a lot of combat time by high level teams. Vigil is certainly a fun choice, as he's especially good against teams who are on their drones a lot, and I really love his design in general. And then we have Dokkaebi who, while definitely being a very strange operator in nature, could be a cheeky pick of casual matches, like Caveira. Though she is unfortunately saddled with a DMR and shotgun, so, as with Echo, you're probably gonna be using her machine pistols more than her primaries. --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 17:48, 20 November 2017 (EDT)

Western optics on Polish-made rifle made after the '90s made sense, Patfast. Poland is on NATO side now.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 10:11, 29 November 2017 (EST)

::The Beryl stock looks like a Hera Arms CQR, despite that not being normally intended for AK-type rifles. I don't quite get why they gave Zofia that Krytac gun, or why they gave the South Koreans a tactical O/U. I mean, sure, asset recycling is a factor, but they could've given her a dozen other machine guns that they already had models for (the KAC LMG, the HK121, etc), or maybe created a more appropriate model, like a UKM-2000 (considering that she is a Pole). And as for the shotgun, they could've used a KSG (which that group apparently actually uses), or even a proper South Korean shotgun, the USAS-12 (as hard as that would be to balance). Generally speaking, they made some odd choices with the weapons here. I do think that Zofia's gadget is going to be a force to be reckoned with, considering the quick breaching potential of the impact grenades (and the infuriation potential of the concussion grenades), but I don't think that the self-revive thing is going to be that big of a deal. I mean, she gets up with ''one'' hitpoint. Someone breathes on her too hard and she'll be down for the count. I frankly just think that they included that for the sake of one-in-a-million dramatic clutches that people pull off on Twitch streams (y'know, 1 HP and a dream), but I might be proven wrong. All we can do is wait and see. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 19:01, 20 November 2017 (EST)
:::I was hoping to see the whole Daewoo family - K7 SMG, K3 SAW and K5 pistol, but I guess the hipster-operators (seriously, did they hire Tumblr artists to create the characters and abilities for this season?) we got have to go with weird weapon choices. Although its cool to see the Rock Island M14, that variant never really shows up in anything. --[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:22, 20 November 2017 (EST)
::::I agree, I think this is the worst match of equipment and CTU, I don't understand the reasoning behind choosing weapons for CTU. You don't even need to hire active/former CTU member/veteran for that kind of info (MoHW was great though), even Wikipedia has information about it mostly with sources. To me it looks like "k2,k1,k7 - they're another c8-sfw,c7nld,416c,sr25" and I hope it's not the case. Maybe I'm glad I'm not getting Israel CTU for now, I don't want them to receive the same treatment as GROM (writing-wise) and them having no Galil, ACE or MTAR. Like IMFDB, I'm looking forward for more weapon representation in games. Also, [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] thank you for rearranging and formatting new weapons properly. I was almost triggered how Ubisoft gave [[AK-12]] to Polish operator first time I saw it in TTS, but then I noticed the fixed rear sight and, just like [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] said, it's HERA Arms CQR stock with some "aftermarket dust cover?" and handguards. And... it's almost certain their design team visited [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/30/hera-arms-cqr-stock-ak-rifle/ this page] for "inspiration" for "M762" (and not actual "Beryl M762" from Google Search or FB page). [[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 06:06, 21 November 2017 (EST)

== "Beryl M762" ==

Here's material for you guys who want to identify or try to explain what this gun actually is (like how "C8-SFW" and "C7E" were explained previously to be other guns completely or heavily modified). First: [http://fabrykabroni.pl/en/produkty/karabiny/beryl-m-7-62/ here's official Beryl M762] from FABRYKA BRONI "ŁUCZNIK" RADOM. Second: [https://www.flickr.com/photos/stickgunner/21074884113/ here's original non-photoshopped image] by Stickman. The handguard is Midwest Industries Extended Handguard and magazine is US PALM (not depicted in-game anyway). And third one is the "inspiration" image: [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/30/hera-arms-cqr-stock-ak-rifle/ here's the same image, but photoshopped with HERA Arms CQR stock] by TFB blog. The in-game model is probably "inspired" by the third one with the addition of custom railed dust cover (can't identify it properly, it still resembles new production AK-12/AK-15 one, but maybe not) and new in-game vertical grip model. [[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 15:47, 7 December 2017 (EST)
:I personally see it as an M762 in name only. I'm gonna give a physical description and mention the inspirations but not directly call it a Beryl M762.--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 07:57, 22 February 2018 (EST)

== Looks like p226 and p229 both have DA only triggers in the game. ==

Their hammers are uncocked not like other pistols, is it a mistake or intended?

== Apparently they changed USP40 to a DAO version in TTS ==

Does DAO USP Compact exist?

== GSG-9 Shotgun ==

Hey guys, as some of you noticed, I changed the info for the GSG-9 shotgun, because I found out that it is actually based off of the G&P M870 RAS with some wonky rail attachments. I am glad to see that people have worded it better, as I word things in the most stupidest way possible.

Best Regards,
[[User:Burga|Burga]] ([[User talk:Burga|talk]]) 17:27, 16 March 2018 (EDT)

== SASG-12 ==
Looks like the "SASG-12" shotgun is based on the customized Saigas by the Hatcher Gun Company.

[https://www.hatchergun.com/saiga_custom.htm] Should I mention it? [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 07:56, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
:You should mention it if there's nothing closer out there. The in-game model seems to still have some differences with these custom Saigas. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 08:15, 27 April 2018 (EDT)

== Trivia ==

[https://i.redd.it/a8z3c7qp8sk01.jpg Finka's] early concept art shows her holding an [[A-91]]. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 01:19, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

:That reminds me that I have these things from Operation Outbreak floating around still-
:[[file:R6S G36art.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:[[file:R6S Mk18ishart.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:[[file:R6S PPSh.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:26, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/814f6x/the_abandonment_of_realism_a_long_post_on/ This reddit rant] had some extra trivia info on some stuff around the game, like the laser sight models and Glaz's new thermal imager. I don't want to talk about their opinions, but I do find some of the details they pointed out interesting.

I also found via artstation that all weapons have tactical lights in Outbreak mode, and one of the artists had to [https://www.artstation.com/artwork/kJBAl make up a flashlight model] for some pistols that lack attachment points of any kind. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 01:19, 9 May 2018 (EDT)

:Wow, does that guy have a stick up his ass. Frankly, I'd kill for the amount of realism Siege has in Ghost Recon Wildlands. Seriously, Ubi, just point to your preferred sacrifice. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:58, 9 May 2018 (EDT)

== 7.62x54mmR Suppressor ==

Anyone know if there's a real equivalent of this?
[[File:RSS 7.62x54mmR suppessor.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:28, 6 August 2018 (EDT)
It reminds me about the PBS-4. But in-game suppressor isn't fully identical to it so maybe I'm wrong. [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 01:59, 10 August 2018 (EDT)

== Operation Grim Sky ==

Clash has a B&T MP9 and a CZ P10C (first appearance in anything?!). Maverick has an "M4" in 5.56, another AR-15 but in .50 Beowulf and a 1911 Tacops (SIG?). I like these additions and I'm glad since I was expecting recycled guns like in Chimera. ---P226 17:47, 19 August 2018 (EDT)
:I wonder if Maverick will be a true ''maverick'' and use the bolt releases on his ARs.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:58, 19 August 2018 (EDT)
::The TTS is starting today I believe, so I'll post some pics and can describe full reload animations (he'll probably just rack the charging handle like the rest of them...)---P226 11:55, 20 August 2018 (EDT)

== What Stock is this? ==

Blackbeard's SR-25 has this weird-looking stock that doesn't appear on any of our SR-25/M110 images. Since I know nothing about stocks, does anybody know what stock is this?--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 18:42, 10 November 2018 (EST)

[[file:R6S-sr25.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

:UBR Collapsible Stock by Magpul. --[[User:Nanomat|Nanomat]] ([[User talk:Nanomat|talk]]) 18:48, 10 November 2018 (EST)

== Wind Bastion - Moroccan operators ==

Seems like Kain has an AUG A3 Para 9mm and Nomad has some AK variant with Magpul furniture. We'll see the full loadout on the 18th once they are fully premiered. ---P226 12:06, 15 November 2018 (EST)

-The Attacker has an ak74m and a arx200, the defender has an aug a3 9mm and a "tcsg12" shotgun (not sure what gun it is} i can get pictures of the when the new technical test server comes out.
[[File:Kaidr6s.jpg|thumb|none|700px]] can anyone identify this gun? ---Azure 1:24 , 17 November 2018 (EST)

::Seems to be some Turkish AR-styled shotgun, likely Derya though I am not sure since the length looks kinda short. I say we should wait for the model to come out . Also Azure, can you next time use some other screencapping option? Using the Uplay screenshot option repeatedly will leave the screenshot saved mark on the image, which is a big no-no on IMFDB. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 13:34, 17 November 2018 (EST)
:::It’s a stubby Akdal Mka 1919 I think.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:35, 17 November 2018 (EST)
:::Yeah sorry i was unaware ill use something else.--[[User:Azure|Azure]] 7:25 November 17 2018 (EST)
The ops also use an Automag .44 AMP with a scope attached for their secondary... just when I thought Ubisoft couldn't make the weapon selection more mental, they outdo themselves lol---P226 13:17, 18 November 2018 (EST)

Talk:Main Page

2018-11-18T18:14:17Z

P226:

'''''See [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_1]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_2]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_3]] [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_4]] [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_5]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_6]], or [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_7]] for older discussions''''':

'''COMMON ISSUES, CHECK HERE FIRST:'''

'''The page thumbnail isn't updating when I upload a new version of an image'''

IMFDB uses a hosting service called Cloudflare. One side-effect of this is that there is a Cloudflare server between IMFDB's server and you, so uploading a new version of an image updates the image on the actual server, but it doesn't update the one stored in Cloudflare's cache for a while, and that's what people see. You can force an update to the thumbnail by changing the size of the displayed image by even a single pixel, but the image itself you just have to wait for. So just change it from, say 600px to 601px after uploading the new image and it should update on the page.

'''I got this weird message about failing to create an image and the mwstore?'''

For reasons that are unclear, the image uploader dislikes certain combinations of numbers being present in a filename. Try re-submitting but removing any strings of multiple numbers from the filename (eg change LordOfTheRings-1911-1.jpg to LordOfTheRings-ColtPistol-1.jpg).

== 2018 ==

Happy New Year, everybody! Here's to another great year of guns, movies, and more. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 00:29, 1 January 2018 (EST) P.S.: This time, I'm first.
:Happy Easter <3 [[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:22, 1 January 2018 (EST)

== Pulling a grenade pin with your teeth ==

Many pages point out how pulling a grenade pin with your teeth in real life would cause dental damage. So, why is it easier to do in movies? Prop grenade uses different material?--[[User:Thomas|Thomas]] ([[User talk:Thomas|talk]]) 13:55, 9 January 2018 (EST)
:It's a split / cotter pin, you can bend the split ends back together to make it easier to pull, with the qualifier that it makes it easier to pull when you ''don't'' want to, too. Obviously with an explosive device that you're carrying, you don't generally want to be able to pull the pin out easily (there's a scene in ''[[The_Thin_Red_Line#MK_II_Hand_Grenade|The Thin Red Line]]'' based on this, in fact). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 14:22, 9 January 2018 (EST)
::Maybe, I'm wrong, but, according [https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Граната#Распространённые_мифы_о_ручной_гранате Russian wikipedia], hand grenade's fuze contain two safeties (known in Russian as ''Usiki''), which completely blocked any moving the of pin. After this safeties were removed, the pin may be much more easily removed (which result to grenade activating and explosion after a few seconds). But, I don't know, is this a correct information or not. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 15:18, 9 January 2018 (EST)
:::I'm using Google Translate, but that seems to be talking about what I'm talking about. Here, I've got a grenade cutaway with a working pin, I'll show you.
:::[[Image:Grenade pin demo.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:::Left is the pin split open like it would be on a live grenade, right is how it flattens out after being pulled (you have to have flatten it slightly more to put it back in, even). On the right it's only held in place by the upward pressure of the spoon, and takes almost no force to pull out, the left I actually bent the pull ring a little pulling it out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:42, 9 January 2018 (EST)
::::The Russian wiki is just talking about the idea that you can straighten the split ring to make it easier to pull out. However there are some grenade that actually have multiple safeties or clips. For example, the M61 was an M26 that had an extra safety clip that kept the spoon in place even if you pulled the pin out. There are also other grenade where the pin itself is more complicated, like the [[L109 hand grenade]] where the ring of the pin is folded out of the way and clipped in place so the pin cant physically move out, or the [http://www.specialistauctions.net/uplimg/mb130918_9e406b4e720225a77615c1db780441f4_mainpic.jpg L83] smoke grenade where the pin is kind of like a safety pin with a second leg that hooks behind the main pin which must be unhooked before ring can be pulled. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:36, 9 January 2018 (EST)
:::::Yeah, the M84 flashbang has a second pin, too. But still, let's stay simple here, the answer in live-action film is that the pin's been straightened out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:59, 9 January 2018 (EST)

== Some assistance to check out the page for any unidentified weapons. ==

Happy New Year folks. I'm working on [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Black_Lagoon:_Roberta%27s_Blood_Trail this], but I got some missing info on some of the small arms used. Need another pair of eyes to check. Thanks. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 08:52, 10 January 2018 (EST)

== Registration ==

It says forum registration has been disabled and I can't register. Am I missing a step to join or was there too much spam? --[[User:H3nry8adger1982|H3nry8adger1982]] ([[User talk:H3nry8adger1982|talk]]) 18:43, 18 January 2018 (EST)H3nry8adger1982
:Please see [[Forum Request|here]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:05, 18 January 2018 (EST)

== Doing a gun article on the ballistic knife pistol ==

Is it fine to do so? At least shows here have used it, but it's from anime. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 01:30, 27 January 2018 (EST)
:If you mean something like the Soviet NRS-2 Scout Firing Knife that fires actual bullets then sure, for just generic spring knives no because they aren't firearms. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:01, 27 January 2018 (EST)
:: Gotcha. The ones in the show don't have any clues on the manufacturer, but they're based on actual BKPs. So I'll just give a generic title except for the NRS-2.[[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 02:52, 27 January 2018 (EST)

== 6P62 ==

Out of curiosity, the 6P62 Russian experimental anti-material rifle was intended as a portable machine gun, but with that 12.7x108mm round (albeit with a blatant 14-round magazine capacity), what would it classify exactly as? A GPMG or a unique form of man-portable heavy MG? (lol) --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:59, 27 January 2018 (EST)
:Its official classification is "Ruchnoy krupnokaliberny pulemyot" - literally "handheld large caliber machine gun", or (an oxymoron!) "light heavy machine gun". [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 06:21, 27 January 2018 (EST)
::Absurd. That's what you call it. Or maybe just stupid. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 09:05, 27 January 2018 (EST)
:::They could have likely meant "handheld heavy machine gun". Now, GPMGs mostly fire full-sized rifle rounds in addition to being man-portable, but the 6P62's round is bigger. So... final verdict: portable HMG? (one of the very few real ones) --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 15:03, 31 January 2018 (EST)

== Tracking new articles made in contribution page ==

Not sure about this, but does a registered user like mua have a way of keeping track of finding how many pages I made are new (The one with the ''N'' symbol)? [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 04:34, 28 January 2018 (EST)
:If you add your new articles in your watchlist, then "View and edit watchlist" in "My watchlist" section would be useful. If not... then I can suggest only manual listing in "My contrubution", choosing Namespace: Main (this option would exclude the list of uploaded files). Sorry, no more ideas. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 06:40, 28 January 2018 (EST)

== P226 full size? ==

Saw this when I was taking snapshot of Counterpart. Do need a second look [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:CounterpartS01E02_05.jpg here]. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 23:49, 22 March 2018 (EDT)
: That is definitely a full size P226 given both the longer slide and hooked trigger guard. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 16:18, 23 March 2018 (EDT)

== Pistol-Caliber Carbines ==

So, yeah. These things are kind of a mess when it comes to classification. You can't really put them under pistols, because they rather obviously aren't, but you can't put them under submachine guns either, because they aren't full-auto, and they really can't be grouped with rifles either, because those generally fire rifle rounds, not handgun rounds. So, is there any really good way to deal with these? So far, the best answer I've heard is to just put them with the SMGs and then point out that they aren't full-auto, but if there are any other ideas out there that could work, I'm open to those too. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 18:28, 26 March 2018 (EDT)
:They're Carbines put them in the Carbines section, you can find it on the Guns category. Also you should sign your posts. [[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 18:20, 26 March 2018 (EDT)
::Sorry, fixed. For the record, I probably should've clarified what I actually meant by this. What I was referring to was where to put these in an article, not what category under "Guns" they should go in. Sorry for the misunderstanding. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 18:28, 26 March 2018 (EDT)
:::I got you brother, group them under Rifles due to their being a two handed shoulder arm firing single projectiles rather than shot. It's the natural distinction, all these more involved ones only came out due to self contained cartridges radically differing how firearms can be made. Winchester Rifles and Carbines get listed under rifles despite firing what are pretty much pistol cartridges. SMGs are always full automatic, if it's got a stock and is semi auto it goes into Rifles with a note in it's description, if has no stock and a short barrel it's a pistol. I can see where it can be confusing, just remember that rifles are two handed shoulder arms, the cartridge it fires doesn't define it. [[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 18:41, 26 March 2018 (EDT)
::::Gotcha, thanks for the help. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 19:35, 26 March 2018 (EDT)
::::: We more recently have been naming 'Rifles' sections 'Rifles / Carbines' for this very reason, or so I feel anyway. Anyway BIP is correct in essentials - We've had the M1 Carbine in 'Rifles' sections prior to making this kind of running change, yet it too fires a cartridge that is 'not a rifle round' as well. It still follows them more closely than the other classifications, which have creteria that specifically excludes them - pistols have a particular aesthetic, as do SMGs which also have select (usually full auto) fire. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:07, 26 March 2018 (EDT)
:I think it's better to say that Pistol-Caliber Carbines (PCCs) aren't really rifles because they don't fire rifle-caliber cartridges. PCCs are pistol-caliber long guns, but not SMGs because they don't have burst-fire and/or full auto fire abilities. Personally I would just put them in a "Carbines" section of a page if it had room. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 15:40, 27 March 2018 (EDT)
:: At the end of the day I agree but that said for the sake of simplicity, again, I think we use 'Rifles / Carbines' on media pages to make it so inclusive. I would say separating the categories further isn't absolutely necessary. Eh, as always, just my take, of course. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 22:08, 28 March 2018 (EDT)
:I think we should hammer this out somewhere else. Is there an admin mailing list I can join or something to talk to them about it? A Rifles/Carbines section works for me even though something like the M1 or M2 Carbines were never rifles in the first place. Technically, "carbines" is too broad a term, because by itself it doesn't specify caliber or firing modes, just a barrel length. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 23:44, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
::No, here is fine and rifles / carbines is fine, we don't need to invent new terminology for this. The fact that "carbine" doesn't specify calibre or firing mode is why we ''can'' use it. Besides, a select-fire pistol-carbine is called a submachine gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 01:55, 5 April 2018 (EDT)

== Russian guns in U.S. ==

Well, I knew that because of treaties (Clinton-Yeltsin treat that proibits weapons exchange between U.S. and Russia, U.N. sanctions for Ukraine crisis, the history of the [[MP-412 REX]] and so on...)
But I discovered that some guns, like the [[Baikal MP-133]] or the [[Saiga-12K]] which is even used by some governative agencies. I m not a U.S. citizen so how it works? --[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 07:37, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
:The law enforcement purchases may have come prior to the sanctions. And there are no prohibitions against buying US made Kalashnikovs from US companies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:56, 30 March 2018 (EDT)
:Thanks--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 12:20, 31 March 2018 (EDT)

== A question about self-translated title ==

Soviet mini series ''[[Meeting at High Snows (Vstrecha u vysokikh snegov)|Vstrecha u vysokikh snegov]]'' lacks official English title, and I have a question about my home-made translation of the original title. Literally it would be ''Meeting at High Snows'', but I doubt how it will be correct: '''Meeting''', '''A Meeting''' or '''The Meeting'''. Please help, thanks in advance. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 15:29, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
:FWIW, Google Translate has it as ''Meeting at high snows''. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:17, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
::We wouldn't happen to have anyone here who is fluent in both Russian and English, would we? Google Translate can be hilariously inept at times. As for whether or not the title of that film needs an (in)definite article or an article at all, I have no idea. Some languages even lack one or more of those. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 23:46, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
:::I use google translator to check my translations, but prefer to do such work myself. And in such difficult case I can hardly rely on it. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 13:21, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
:It probably requires some context as to what the meeting being referred to is: is it one specific meeting among many ("A meeting"), a single event ("the meeting") or something people want to do ("meeting"). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:02, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
::The context is following: the main character is a man from a Central Asian village at the foot of the mountains (mentioned in the title as "High Snows") who returns to his native land after twenty years of prison, escape, banditry, participation in civil war in White and Red armies. At home he fights against enemies of past and new enemies, and at last it appears that the current leader of his enemies is his own son, unknown to this man. At last they tragically meet on battlefield. I guess that "The meeting" would fit better, right? Thanks! [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 13:21, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
:::If the meeting referred to by the title of the film is the climax of the film's story, then I agree that the title should probably read "The Meeting at High Snows." --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 00:05, 6 April 2018 (EDT)
::::Thanks a lot! [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 02:51, 6 April 2018 (EDT)

==Old deleted images==

Question. Have these images been meant to be deleted and disposed of? They're [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:IMFDBLogoGun.jpg here] and [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:OnGoing.jpg here]? [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 10:53, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
:I removed this files from delete list. Thanks for pointing this out. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 15:07, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
:: Okay. Thought that they're suppose to be gone. Although [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Arisaka_Type_30_and_bayonet.jpg I need to get rid of this since I need to do more cropping]. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 21:13, 12 April 2018 (EDT)

==Image check==

Need someone to double check on a weapon id [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Ransom_(2017_TV_Series)_-_Season_2 here], particularly the sniper rifle. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 10:51, 26 April 2018 (EDT)
:Looks like a [[Savage Arms Model 10 BA Stealth]] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:06, 26 April 2018 (EDT)
::Thanks. Wondered why the mag looks familiar. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 06:57, 27 April 2018 (EDT)

==Common firing sound==
Any suggestion on what you could call that classic firing sound that we've been commonly hearing in some movies and video games from the past decade? (the sound used [http://youtu.be/FPPMh0Gygxw?t=152 here] for the AK). At this point, it has become as cliché as the Wilhelm scream. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:22, 10 May 2018 (EDT)

== Unknown M1911 Variant ==

So, in case you somehow haven't noticed, I've been doing a lot of work on the ''[[Hot Dogs, Horseshoes & Hand Grenades|H3VR]]'' page lately. Well, in a devlog a few weeks ago, an [[M1911]] variant was shown off, referred to as the "1911 Operator" model. Does anybody know what this might be?
[[File:H3VR M1911 Operator Left.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Examining the left side of the pistol...]]
[[File:H3VR M1911 Operator Right.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and the right.]]
[[File:H3VR M1911 Operator Aiming.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the Operator. As with the earlier Tactical model (the [[Kimber Warrior]]), the Operator has an integrated red-dot sight, albeit a different, higher-profile model than the earlier pistol.]]
[[File:H3VR M1911 Operator Firing.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Firing a round. As with all the other M1911 variants, it's chambered in .45 ACP.]]
[[File:H3VR M1911 Operator Loading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Replacing the now-empty magazine with a fresh one.]]
[[File:H3VR M1911 Operator Racking.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finishing off the reload with a quick tug of the slide. Note that the slide is further back here than it was in the previous shot; ''H3'' does, in fact, show that a weapon's bolt or slide can be pulled back past its lock point.]]
Any thoughts? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 14:53, 31 March 2018 (EDT) P.S.: Sorry for asking a bunch of questions lately.

== Patent question ==

If a gun got a markings with PAT: XXXX with a 4-digit number written over, is the year in which was patented? And how can I tell the date of manufacture/patent from the ID number? (obviously for products not made by Steyr.)--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:06, 22 May 2018 (EDT)

== Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom ==

Hey all, I'm new to the site so bear with me if something doesn't look right. I was curious about the Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom page. I believe the user "1morey" made the page. Apparently the shotgun shown in one of the trailers is a Remington 870. I cannot tell from the angle of the still provided. I was wondering how "1morey" was able to distinguish this as an 870? The forend of the shotgun looks very odd to me. Just wondering what makes it stand out as an 870. I might not have a good eye for the details. Thank you.
:This should go on the talk page for ''[[Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom]]''. But as to your question, I'm not sure how he could make such as ID. I'm setting it to unknown. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 11:44, 25 May 2018 (EDT)

== Help to ID the rifle in the movie ==

Hello! Excuse me, I have some request: may somebody help me to ID this rifle in the movie. This is Russian 2007 movie, the story tooked place in 19th centery Yakutia vilage. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 14:57, 10 June 2018 (EDT)

[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The rifle is clearly percussion.]]
[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The muzzle is seen. Note, that's rusty, which means the old age of this gun.]]
[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The sling attachin position is seen.]]
[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The percussion lock is seen again. ]]
[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The hammer shape is seen in the darkness.]]
[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The hammer shape is seen clearly, althought through the fishnet.]]
[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The trigger guard can be seen.]]
[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Note, that this rifle is muzzleloaded. ]]
[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The buttstock can be seen. Note, that the sling attached a few inches under the guard.]]
[[Image:Tuman buolbut taptal 10.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The trigger guard is seen again. ]]

== Possible new gun subcategories: caseless firearms and their related technologies ==

We have some weapons on this wiki that use caseless ammunition (G11, LSAT, etc.) or somewhat-caseless ammunition (GP-25 and related grenade launchers, Volcanic Repeater, Gyrojet, etc.). Are there enough examples on this wiki to create a Caseless category and a "somewhat-caseless" category? I actually have a name in the works for the latter if it gets approved, as well as a definition for a glossary if that proves necessary. This is the first time I've done this here and I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, or if the forums or an admin mailing list are more appropriate for proposals like these. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 22:49, 13 June 2018 (EDT)
:I'm not sure what the point of the new category would be. Would users actually come here and search for weapons which use caseless or somewhat-caseless(?) ammo? I don't have any issues updating the glossary, but categories require maintenance, and it's a lot of busy-work. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 23:51, 13 June 2018 (EDT)
The [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/08/11/weekly-dtic-jim-schatz-caseless-ammunition/ late firearms technology writer David Schatz] called GP-25 ammunition and related developments (including the Volcanic Repeater's, citation available on request) "semi-caseless" ammunition, but that's a rather vague term. Here's my argument: rounds of ammunition like GP-25 grenades or the Volcanic Repeater's should be called "holomobile," like "automobile," but with "holo-" for "whole." "Holomobile" is a more precise term than "semi-caseless," because both a G-11 round and a GP-25 round leave no casing behind in the original weapon once fired, but a GP-25 round's casing hasn't actually been replaced with a block of propellant. Instead, the GP-25 round's casing just left the weapon to join the rest of the fired round on its way to the target, so the entire round ''moves as a whole'' towards the target once fired, hence "'''holomobile'''", unlike conventional cased ammunition where the case stays in the weapon and gets extracted to load the next round.

Under this paradigm, anything that works like the GP-25 launcher's ammunition, with the exception of things like mortar and rocket/missile launchers which have always inherently worked on this principle, might fall under the acronym "'''H'''olomobile '''A'''mmunition-'''U'''sing Wea'''PON'''" (or HAUPON, pronounced "Hop-On"), or just "Holomobile" if we denote caseless firearms under the hypothetical "Caseless" subcategory (which should include both fictional and real caseless firearms like the [[Aliens]] Pulse Rifle and the H&K G11 rifle.

I like the categories on this site because you can use them to see how a specific firearm is related to others in the wiki. Sure, it's busy-work, but so is any wiki to stay updated. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 00:47, 14 June 2018 (EDT)

:I don't see how this would help people identify firearms. Also no, we're not going to feature firearm terminology you invented. Also why would you classify Gyrojets as caseless rounds? We already have a term for what they are, they're rockets. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:49, 14 June 2018 (EDT)

::This wiki has always been something of a collection of niche interests (look at how many detailed entries we have for guns that have only one media entry, like the [[Ithaca Auto & Burglar]] shotgun). I was thinking that adding a Caseless and a Semi-Caseless category allows users to find out what other film- and motion-media-featured guns of those kinds have appeared in various media titles, how to differentiate those guns from others, and how they work (when it is relevant to the media they appear in). Classifying the G11 as caseless is significant because it actually had working prototypes, and the [[Aliens]] Pulse Rifle can also go in that subcategory.

::As for neologisms, I'm only resorting to them because the word for this concept hasn't been officially designated or become commonly used. But new firearms technology comes into play all the time, so why should the marketing execs who come up with terms like RIP (Radically Invasive Projectile), EXACTO, or "Counter-Defilade Target Engagement System" get to have all the fun? Informal terms like [[List_of_gun_abbreviations#C_2|"Chicom" or "ChiCom" are also used on this wiki too]]. "Holomobile" is more in the vein of [[List_of_gun_abbreviations#A|APCR or APFSDS]] in that it's intended to provide a short, apt, and accurate description of how the ammunition operates. Yes, I made up the term "holomobile," but only because an apt term hasn't been officially designated yet on this wiki. Gyrojets are a interesting case because no other weapon system I know of fires out ''inert'' (i.e., no warhead of any sort) rocket-propelled projectiles not intended only for training, and that can be easily mistaken for being caseless.

::The only relevant citation I can find right now is also from Jim Schatz, where he attempts to differentiate caseless ammunition ("has a fully-combustible propellant body") from conventional cased ammunition and "semi-caseless ammunition" on pages 5 and 6 of this [https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2012/armaments/Wednesday13614JimSchatz.pdf DTIC presentation file], and struggles due to the lack of a designated or commonly-used term to denote ammunition like VOG-25 grenades and "Rocket Ball" ammunition.

::Besides, "what business are we in?" aside from selling ad views to maintain the servers without a constant stream of notations? We're in the business of informing our audience, clarifying confusion about how relevant firearms work and why that matters, and providing conclusive evidence about what firearms appeared in which media titles. Clearing up the ways that firearm ammunition is cased (or otherwise) also works towards that end. Funny how the [[GP-series grenade launcher]] page claims its ammunition is "caseless," when in fact it functions more like the [[Volcanic Repeater]], and the latter page struggles to define it as a "borderline case" because of the lack of an apt and descriptive term which "holomobile" could fill. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 16:00, 16 June 2018 (EDT)

::: First off, trying to use ''one'' '''''fictional''''' film weapon to help your case for adding a category sounds a lot like grasping at straws. Secondly if we use your terminology in one way or other on a page that you don't prefer, that opens us up to all kinds of potential problems - problems the site doesn't need to waste time and energy on. I know you'll say you don't care, but even then better to avoid any potential disputes of that sort with members entirely I'd say. Thirdly, we mainly ''don't'' use marketing terms, we use generally accepted classifications and definitions that are used throughout the official and technical realm of firearms literature elsewhere. Hence why acronyms like APFSDS are acceptable. Your term has no usage except to classify a type of firearm (of which there are very few examples in the first place) to an inth degree, something that I very much doubt any considerable number of people are actually looking for at any given time, let alone looking for it here. Moving on, fourth, 'Gyrojets' are still technically rockets - that they may be thought of as something else sounds more an issue we should correct people on, not make up an additional extraneous term to further confuse and obfuscate the matter. Fifth and finally, you have obfuscated and confused what we do here in my book. '''We're here primarily to identify firearms used in media. That is - or at least should be - the paramount focus of the site.''' I honestly think putting a lot of energy to anything not directly related to that is honestly a waste. Noting how a movie gun operates versus a real example fits that bill. Adding super-specific extraneous classifications of guns is not. We're not supposed to be a firearms encyclopedia - which as long as we're linking to other places for reference, is stated right in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#Image_Rules:_Gun_Images|RSP]]. Although that note pertains specifically to images, I think that is a principle to be applied more generally throughout the site. When it comes to all these super specific categories and classifications, massive paragraphs regarding a weapon's ultra-detailed history and operation, and so forth, there's other - frankly more suitable - places for that, in print and on the internet. Bottom line we are an information archive yes, but one with a central purpose that honestly I've been seeing much of the site spend a lot of time and energy deviating from over the years, this being yet again a prime example. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 19:38, 16 June 2018 (EDT)
::::Holomobile sounds like something Jem would drive around in. If you can popularise the term we'll start using it, but we're not going to be the patient zero for it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 00:55, 17 June 2018 (EDT)

== Uploading a new version of a pre-existing image ==

How does this work? Every time I try it, the image thumbnail remains the same and I can't wrap my head around how this is supposed to work, I've seen others do it successfully though.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:32, 25 June 2018 (EDT)
:Ok, this is because we have Cloudflare between IMFDB's server and users, so while it updates the image on the actual server, it doesn't update the one stored in Cloudflare's cache for a while, and that's what people see. You can force an update to the thumbnail by changing the size of the displayed image (that's why you get those edits that change image size by 1 pixel, if you've ever noticed that) but the image itself you just have to wait for. So just change it from 600px to 601px and it should update on the page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 19:46, 25 June 2018 (EDT)
::Bueno, thanks--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:52, 25 June 2018 (EDT)

== 1 extra pixel for image sizes ==

Very often I would see edits like [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Talk:MAC-10&curid=9653&diff=1193128&oldid=1193118 this] that add 1 pixel to the size of an image on a page. It happens semi-often on this site but I have never seen this anywhere else. What are they for? --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 10:38, 28 June 2018 (EDT)
:Whenever someone uploads a new version of an existing image, it takes a while for it to actually change on its own. Adjusting the file size essentially forces the site to recognize that the image has been updated, but adjusting it by one pixel prevents it from actually being noticeable. In cases such as this one, it was more important than most, because the new version of the image had a different aspect ratio than the original, so leaving the images as-is left them looking "squashed".

Sincerely,

The guy who just made the edit you linked to as an example, AKA [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 10:45, 28 June 2018 (EDT)

:Oh, interesting trick. I just wait it out. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 10:51, 28 June 2018 (EDT)
::Correct, it refreshes the thumbnail. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:55, 28 June 2018 (EDT)

== Supernatural Seasons 8-14 ==

Is it just me or people just lost interest in updating the seasons 7-12 or even creating seasons 13 & 14? If people are about to ask me "why don't you do it yourself?" well one, I don't know where to download and two, I don't have a computer and I use my phone to do all of this stuff and it lags real bad like right now as I'm trying to type.
[[User:I'mallaboutguns.1|I'mallaboutguns.1]] ([[User talk:I'mallaboutguns.1|talk]]) 23:33, 5 July 2018 (EDT)
:Speaking for at least myself, sometimes other commitments get in the way. Jobs, spouses, kids, things come up. If someone gets to it, they'll get to it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 07:49, 6 July 2018 (EDT)
::I did the first 7 seasons but whilst I was doing that others started on the latter seasons so I put it on hold, especially as I only have it on DVD rather than the HD source the latter seasons were started in. However, nobody ever finished the latter ones so I intend to do them at some point (I only currently have up to season 12 though and it will only be DVD quality), but seeing as how I haven't actually watched these latter seasons yet I essentially need to fully watch 5 seasons (only taking me up to season 12) so that is about 80 hours of TV without even taking into account the time needed to actually get the screenshots and make the pages, so it will probably take me a while, so if anyone else wants to do it, feel free. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:24, 6 July 2018 (EDT)

== Help to ID the ancient revolver ==

Hello! Excuse me, I have some request: may somebody help me to ID this ancient revolver in the anime movie ''[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dagger_of_Kamui The Dagger of Kamui]''. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 16:52, 17 July 2018 (EDT)
[[Image:The Dagger of Kamui revolver 1 1.jpg|500px|thumb|none|The hammer can be seen.]]
[[Image:The Dagger of Kamui revolver 1 2.jpg|500px|thumb|none|The revolver is partly seen.]]
[[Image:The Dagger of Kamui revolver 1 3.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Perfect view of the trigger guard.]]
[[Image:The Dagger of Kamui revolver 1 4.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Note the barrel lenght. This gun is seems to be a pinfire.]]
:Seems like a Colt Open Top Revolver with the trigger guard of a Lemat Revolver, probably to look cool. [[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 17:20, 17 July 2018 (EDT)
::Maybe, something from [[Lefaucheux Revolver]]s series, like [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Revolver_Lefaucheux%2C_mod%C3%A8le_1854%2C_le_LF_28.jpg this], or [https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_94/029/g19857636.jpg this]? At least, it has the similar trigger guard, open top and a pinfire as well. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 10:18, 18 July 2018 (EDT)
:::Might could be, the hammer looks to be shaved down so it's flush with the frame. Could be modeled after a centerfire conversion of a pinfire Lefaucheux. [[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 19:00, 18 July 2018 (EDT)

== Metric units vs United States customary ==
I think IMFDB should prioritize metric over US customary units. The metric system is the more widespread system.
--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 03:15, 30 August 2018 (EDT)
:But it's an American site. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:17, 30 August 2018 (EDT)
::Then be consistent and use American English in descriptions, Tim :P --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 08:00, 30 August 2018 (EDT)
:::I do, now. Mostly. >.> [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:14, 30 August 2018 (EDT)

== ''H3VR'''s "M4 Shorty" ==

I already posted this on the ''[[H3VR]]'' talk page, but since I haven't gotten a solid response over there, I figured that this would be the next logical step. So, one copy-paste later...

In Update #49, a third variant of the "new" M4A1 model was added, referred to as the "Shorty" variant; as the name implies, it has a shortened barrel, handguard, and gas system. Now, I ''was'' going to add this under the M4A1 entry, but then I remembered two important things:
:1. Virtually every single possible combination of parts (especially with regards to barrel lengths and types) on an AR-15-pattern rifle has its own unique designation, and
:2. I am really bad at identifying them.
As such, I would like some assistance in figuring out just what we should call the "M4 Shorty" on the page. Here are a couple reference images:
[[File:H3VR M4A1 Shorty Forend.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a shot of the forend and barrel...]]
[[File:H3VR M4A1 Shorty Check.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and here's a brass-check glamour shot.]]
Any ideas? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:14, 1 September 2018 (EDT) P.S.: Yes, I did re-type my signature. Why? Because, that's why.
:It's a bit far-fetched to say that every possible combination of AR-15 parts has its own unique designation :P especially when you see custom carbines such as [[District B13#AR-15 Pistol/SMG|this one]] and [[36th Precinct#Customized AR-15 Carbine|this one]]. That's why I don't think this shorty M4 has a particular real-life counterpart; at best, I could probably call it an ever shorter version of the CQB-R / Mk 18 Mod 0. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:55, 2 September 2018 (EDT)
::Perhaps I should've specified: every ''officially manufactured'' AR-pattern rifle has its own designation that we try to point out (especially when the official manufacturing is done by one of the major manufacturers). So, if it's not anything in particular (the most likely explanation being a "pistol" upper attached to an M4A1 lower), then what should I call it? And, for that matter, where should I put it? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 08:54, 2 September 2018 (EDT)

== Help, I am looking for pictures of AK pistol. ==

I remember seeing the picture of AK shortened on this site before, but I have forgotten which page it was put on. It is cut barrel and handguard. It is like the picture below. -- [[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] ([[User talk:KINKI'boy|talk]]) 3:07, 10 September 2018 (JST)
[[File:Bandicam 2018-09-09 11-57-29-171.jpg|600px|thumb|none|scene in ''[[Zombie Plague: Mutant Zone - Toxic Revolution]]'']]
:Isn't it an airsoft gun, like [https://media2.24aul.ru/imgs/527b0fa21252080654242864/aksu-47-ak-47-1-3369652.jpg this one] (don't know the manufacturer)? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 14:13, 9 September 2018 (EDT)
:: No, without Stock. -- [[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] ([[User talk:KINKI'boy|talk]]) 3:26, 11 September 2018 (JST)
:::Maybe what you're looking for is the [[:File:Romanian Micro Draco.jpg|Micro Draco pistol]] (currently in the AIMR section), but it's different from the one seen in that screencap; the latter doesn't seem to have a hooded front sight like those Romanian carbines. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 14:52, 10 September 2018 (EDT)
::::[http://images.satom.ru/i/firms/28/107/107605/straykbolnyy-avtomat-galaxy-g-28s-rk-beta-spetsnaz-s_db335a2e07b7563_800x600.jpg Here] is another similar airsoft AKSU, Galaxy G.28S АК Beta Spetsnaz S. With removed muzzle brake and wooden furniture it would bear resemblance with a screen gun. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 15:56, 10 September 2018 (EDT)

== I need help to identify this pistol. ==

Im trying to help on the ''[[American Ultra]]'' page and in some scene of the film Mike takes a ''[[Beretta 92FS]]'' from Rose,but when he "takes" the gun,the scene changes to another cut of some other person taking another gun(Maybe because the actor couldnt do it)
It could be a XD or a Glock? but i really cant say because of the rail and because its to dark for me,and i preffer to confirm what gun it is before doing an edit
--[[User:MeilingSama|MeilingSama]] ([[User talk:MeilingSama|talk]]) 01:09, 12 September 2018 (EDT)

[[File:UnknownPistol.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Another person takes the pistol from "Rose" in a different cut]]

::Looks like a [[Glock]] with a Timberwolf frame. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 11:48, 12 September 2018 (EDT)

== A quick rule-related question. ==

Are unregistered/non-logged-in users allowed to upload screenshots? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 19:26, 29 September 2018 (EDT) P.S.: I know that I'm kinda sounding like a broken record, but does anybody have anything conclusive to say about the "M4 Shorty" a couple topics above?
:No, you have to be a registered user to upload and make edits. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 19:59, 29 September 2018 (EDT)
::Alright, thanks for letting me know. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 21:23, 29 September 2018 (EDT)

== Account Deletion ==

Hello, everyone I hope you're doing well. I just wanted to quickly reach out and ask about deleting my account. I've been on IMFDB for about 7 years now but I think it's time I move on to other endeavors. I've been told if I don't want to be on IMFDB, then simply don't use it, but I'm afraid that's not going to work in my case. If someone can begin the process of deleting my account or at the very minimum giving me a permanent suspension or ban will be great and really helpful. Thank you. [[User:Vintage Guns|Vintage Guns]] ([[User talk:Vintage Guns|talk]])
:I'll give you three months. If you haven't weaned yourself off by then, you're on your own. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:24, 4 October 2018 (EDT)

==Database Error==

Updating the Jack Ryan article and I'm almost done when I got this error:

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "LinkHolderArray::replaceInternal". Database returned error "1271: Illegal mix of collations for operation ' IN ' (173.255.217.6)".

[[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 20:08, 10 October 2018 (EDT)

== Disabling the autoplaying videos that appear on Smith & Wesson and 1911 pages ==

Is there any way to disable these loud videos? They keep on appearing at the top of the page and auto-playing when I load any page with S&W or M1911 in their name. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 23:34, 3 November 2018 (EDT)
:If you go to My Preferences>Appearance and select Monobook, all ads disappear. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 23:38, 3 November 2018 (EDT)
::That worked. Thanks. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 23:42, 3 November 2018 (EDT)

== A couple of AR variants. ==

Yep, it's me again. Much to everybody's chagrin. Anyway, I'm nearing the end of the ''[[H3VR]]'' screenshots I can actually take (I've got a plan for the rest), and I've picked up another couple of [[AR-15]] derivatives. As above, so right here - I'm not particularly good with these, and now they're low-detailed, so if anyone has any insights, it'd be much appreciated. If not, well, it just be like that sometimes.
[[File:H3VR Spawner AR-15.jpg|thumb|none|800px|The AR that appears as a tutorial image on the item spawner. Best guess would be a [[Colt Law Enforcement Carbine]], but my best guess doesn't exactly amount to much.]]
[[File:H3VR Target AR-15.jpg|thumb|none|800px|These wooden hot-dog soldier targets use a rifle that could probably be either a standard [[M4A1]], or something more along the lines of a [[Colt Model 653]].]]
Sorry to keep pestering everyone like this; all I can say is that it'll probably be over relatively soon. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 18:19, 9 November 2018 (EST)
:Actually, I think for now that I'll just put them down as "Unkown AR-15 Carbines" or something of the sort, and if anyone gets any inspiration, they can edit as they please. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 10:57, 10 November 2018 (EST)

== R6 Siege page deleted? ==

The Rainbow Six Siege page seems to be deleted, which is annoying since a new update is on the horizon that’s adding some new guns. What’s the deal? ---P226 01:45, 18 November 2018 (EST)
:Huh... the page is still up for me... [[Rainbow Six Siege]]. I'm not sure what's happening on your end. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 03:32, 18 November 2018 (EST)
For some reason I'm getting "weblogin.html" and it says the page has no text. This happens only on my phone (I used to visit on my phone occasionally in the past) but my laptop and desktop can display the page fine...pretty weird, maybe it'll sort itself out.---P226 13:14, 18 November 2018 (EST)

Talk:Main Page

2018-11-18T06:45:23Z

P226: /* R6 Siege page deleted? */ new section

Talk:Rainbow Six Siege

2018-11-15T17:06:41Z

P226: /* Wind Bastion - Moroccan operators */ new section

Rainbow Six Siege

2018-08-21T03:57:11Z

P226: /* CZ P-10C */

{{Infobox Video Game|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Rainbow Six: Siege
|picture = R6 siege pc box.jpg
|caption = ''Offical Boxart''
|series = [[Tom Clancy#Rainbow Six|Rainbow Six]]
|date = December 1, 2015
|developer = Ubisoft
|platforms = Xbox One Playstation 4 PC
|publisher = Ubisoft
|genre = First-Person Shooter
}}

'''''Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Siege''''' is a tactical first person shooter available on the PlayStation 4, Xbox One and PC. Players assume the roles of counter-terrorism operators from around the world, and engage in PvP and PvE combat. Operators are divided by their counter-terrorism unit of origin, which determines the overall set of weapons available to them, and then further into different sides as an Attacker or a Defender, which further singles out what CTU-specific equipment they can use, alongside each operator having a unique gadget. Also playable are Recruits, each of the five default CTUs having one each for the Attacker and Defender sides; recruits do not have unique gadgets, but instead they can take a second piece of universal equipment in place of a gadget (such as an Attacker recruit taking breaching charges alongside a frag grenade) and, with one exception, all weapons used by any of the regular operators of their CTU's "side" are available to them (e.g. a GSG-9 Defender recruit can use either the MP7 or the HK416C, despite each being otherwise exclusive to one of their two Defender operators).

The game also features destructible environments for players to take advantage of, primarily blowing holes in walls for a new entry point to flank opponents, creating windows to defend an area without exposing the player's whole body, or shooting through thin walls to suppress enemies.

Players are able to play either alone or with a team of up to five players in a number of game modes such as bomb defusal, hostage extraction and securing a bio-container, all available against either another team of five human players (regular gameplay) or waves of AI-controlled opponents (Terrorist Hunt).

All primary and some secondary weapons in the game have "charm mounts" to which keychain-like charms can be attached, which by default appear as sling loops.

'''The following weapons can be seen in the video game ''Rainbow Six: Siege'':'''
__TOC__ 
=Pistols=
==FN Five-seveN==
The [[FN Five-seveN|FN Five-seveN Mark 2]] is issued to the FBI SWAT faction. It appears as the "5.7 USG". The Five-seveN has an appropriate 20+1 capacity, but it's overall effectiveness is offset by low stopping power.
[[File:FN Five-seveN Mark 2.jpg|thumb|none|350px|FN Five-seveN Mark 2 - FN 5.7×28mm. This variant is now the standard version of the FN Five-seveN offered by FNH. The Mk2 model has cocking serrations on the front of the slide as well as on the rear. This is a fixed-sight version. ]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN Five-seveN USG.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Menu model of the Five-seveN Mark 2.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN Five-seveN USG holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First-person view of the weapon.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN Five-seveN USG aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN Five-seveN USG reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ejecting a magazine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN Five-seveN USG reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new mag into the empty pistol.]]
[[File:RSS Five-seveN (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pullling the slide to rechamber the Five-seveN.]]

==FN FNP-9==
The [[FN FNP-9]] is a high capacity, 9x19mm handgun used by the GIGN Operators and recruits. It is referred to as the "P9". Lion always carries one in a vest holster, in addition to his main sidearm (either another FNP-9 or a Model 586) in his leg holster; the extra pistol is not usable by the player.
[[file:FNP-Pistol.jpg |thumb|350px|none|FN FNP-9 - 9x19mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FNP-9.jpg|thumb|600px|none|FNP-9 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FNP-9 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The FNP-9 in the hands of the GIGN operator Twitch.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FNP-9 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the pistol.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FNP-9 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the FNP-9.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FNP-9 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading from empty.]]

==GSh-18==
The [[GSh-18]] is a sidearm available to the Spetsnaz CTU (the depicted CTU is more specifically Alpha Group of FSB, going under the more generic and well-known Spetsnaz name). As with the two pistols mentioned above, it is the Russians' high capacity, low damage 9x19mm caliber pistol.
[[File:Gsh18-l.jpg|thumb|none|350px|GSh-18 - 9x19mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege GSh-18.jpg|thumb|600px|none|GSh-18 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege GSh-18 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Spetsnaz operator Fuze holds the GSh-18 on a menacing armored car.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege GSh-18 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the GSh.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege GSh-18 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege GSh-18 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Empty reload.]]

==Heckler & Koch USP Tactical==
The P12 is the German equipment designation for the [[Heckler & Koch USP Tactical]], used by the German GSG-9 operatives. The loadout icon was originally the same as the FNP-9, but in Update 3.2 the USP was given a new proper icon. Magazine capacity is also wrong for a .45 ACP USP Tactical that is used as the P12 in reality; only 10- or 12-round magazines exist for it.
[[file:Hk-usp45tac.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch USP Tactical - .45 ACP]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch USP.jpg|thumb|600px|none|USP Tactical in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch USP holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The USP Tactical in the hands of GSG-9 operator Blitz.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch USP aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the handgun.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch USP reloading1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the USP.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch USP reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tugging the slide to release it and chamber a round. When using the pistol in conjunction with his flash shield, Blitz will thumb the slide release instead.]]

==M45/MEU(SOC)==
The [[M45/MEU(SOC)]] is the other sidearm available to the FBI SWAT operatives. It appears as the "M45 MEUSOC" and feeds from standard seven-round magazines. Compared to their Five-seveN, the MEU(SOC) offers substantially higher stopping power at the expense of having close to only a third of the former's magazine capacity.
[[file:M-45 MEU(SOC).jpg|thumb|none|350px|MEU(SOC) Pistol, later version - .45 ACP]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m45 meusoc.jpg‎|thumb|600px|none|M45/MEU(SOC) in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m45 meusoc holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FBI operative Ash models the M45/MEU(SOC).]]
[[file:RainbowSixSiege m45 meusoc aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the Novak night sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m45 meusoc reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading a magazine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m45 meusoc reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting another mag into the empty M45.]]
==="1911 TACOPS"===
The "1911 TACOPS" is a sidearm available to the GSUTR (Grim Sky Urban Tactical Response Team, added in Year 3 Season 3 Operation Grim Sky, consisting of Delta Force operator Maverick and Metropolitan Police Service operator Clash) Operator Maverick.
[[File:R6S-1911tacops.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The "1911 TACOPS" in lobby.]]

==Makarov PM==
Though referred to as the improved PMM, the in-game pistol is actually the older [[Makarov PM]], and is issued to the Russian Spetsnaz. Surprisingly, it deals a whopping 63 damage per shot (for comparison, the M45/MEU(SOC) has a base damage of 47, while the S&W 586 does 77 damage a round), and feeds from the normal 8-round magazine of the PM.
[[file:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Russian Makarov PM - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Makarov PMM.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Makarov PM in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Makarov PMM holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Makarov PM in the hands of Fuze.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Makarov PMM aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the PM.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Makarov PMM reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading. The animation is very fast, making up for the low magazine size.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Makarov PMM reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dry reloading the Makarov.]]

==SIG-Sauer P226 Mk 25==
The SAS faction uses the [[SIG-Sauer P226|SIG-Sauer P226 Mk 25]] as their default handgun of choice. The choice of this particular model is odd, as the military of the UK uses regular P226/P226R pistols under the "L105A1/A2" designation. It also predates the inclusion of a proper US Navy SEAL faction, who were rather strangely given the Desert Eagle as their sidearm instead.
[[file:P226 Navy.jpg|thumb|350px|none|SIG-Sauer P226 Navy, this is the version used by the Navy SEALs, easily identifiable by the white anchor on the slide - 9x19mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG-Sauer P226.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SIG-Sauer P226 Mk 25 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG-Sauer P226 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A recruit holds the P226 Mk 25.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG-Sauer P226 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the P226.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG-Sauer P226 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the pistol.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG-Sauer P226 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading from empty.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 586==
The base game's lone revolver, the [[Smith & Wesson Model 586]] is available to the French GIGN. It appears as the "LFP586". This weapon is likely standing in for the [[Manurhin MR-73]] revolver, which is used in real life by the French GIGN. Compared to their FNP-9, the Model 586 offers substantially greater stopping power per shot, but requires prime shot placement and well timed reloads to offset its severe recoil and low capacity. The only accessory available to the 586 is a laser aiming module mounted onto the trigger guard.
[[file:S&W586-6.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith & Wesson Model 586 with 6" barrel - .357 Magnum]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Smith & Wesson Model 586.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 586 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Smith & Wesson Model 586 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The S&W 586 in idle.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Smith & Wesson Model 586 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the Model 586.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Smith & Wesson Model 586 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hitting the revolver's ejector rod.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Smith & Wesson Model 586 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Loading six rounds with the aid of a speed-loader.]]
[[File:RSS S&W.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A GIGN recruit aims a Model 586 at Rook in the latter's introductory cinematic.]]
[[File:RSS S&W-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cocking the hammer...]]

==Inglis Hi-Power==
The Inglis Hi-Power, a Canadian-manufactured version of the [[Browning Hi-Power]], is used by the Canadian JTF2 Operators that appeared in the Operation Black Ice expansion. It appears under the strange name "MK1 9mm".
[[Image:Inglis Hi-Power.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Inglis Hi-Power - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-inglis-001.jpg|thumb|600px|none|MK1 9mm in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSHipower.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Hi-Power in Buck's hands.]]
[[File:RSSHipower-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sight view of the Inglis.]]
[[File:RSSHipower-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new magazine.]]
[[File:RSSHipower-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Slide released; ready to go.]]

==Desert Eagle Mark XIX==
The [[Desert Eagle Mark XIX]] is used by the Navy SEAL Operators added to the game with the Operation Dust Line expansion. It appears as the "D-50", similar to its name in other Ubisoft releases around the same time like ''[[Far Cry 3]]''. With the release of Operation Velvet Shell the finish was changed to black.
[[Image:Deser_Eagle_XIX_50AE_Picatinny.jpg|thumb|350px|none|MRI Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE]]
[[File:R6S-d50.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Old menu model of the Desert Eagle.]]
[[File:RainbowSixSiege-D50.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Current model of the weapon.]]
[[File:RSSDEagle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Having decided to forsake all sensible armament", Blackbeard brandishes the chrome Desert Eagle.]]
[[File:RSSDEagle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The non standard illuminated iron sights are nice and open, however.]]
[[File:RSSDEagle-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Performing a mid-magazine swap with the "Deagle."]]
[[File:RSSDEagle-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackbeard dramatically ditches out an empty magazine...]]
[[File:RSSDEagle-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and inserts a fresh one, 7 rounds of .50 Action Express.]]
[[File:R6S New Desert Eagle Melee.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The melee animation of the current Desert Eagle model, note the new color of the iron sights.]]
[[File:R6S New Desert Eagle Sights.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the red & yellow irons.]]

==Beretta 92==
The [[Beretta 92]] is used by the BOPE Operators from the Operation Skull Rain expansion, labeled in-game as "PRB92." Presumably, these pistols were intended to be vintage [[Taurus PT92]] handguns, but the rounded trigger guard and magazine release located on the butt of the grip are features of the first model Beretta 92. On another note, the defender Caveira wields a unique "Luison" version that comes pre-equipped with a mineral-based suppressor and fires non-lethal, subsonic rounds.
[[File:Beretta92oldest.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beretta 92, the first Beretta 92 Series model produced, noted by rounded trigger guard, butt located magazine release, and frame mounted safety (pre-decocking safety) - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:TaurusPT92AFEarlyFlipSide.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Taurus PT92AF, earliest model of the PT92 for comparison - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-prb92.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The "PRB92" in the lobby. Note the rounded trigger guard, which has never been a feature of the Taurus series.]]
[[File:R6S-luison.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Luison in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSPt92.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta in idle on the new Favelas map.]]
[[File:RSSPt92-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[File:RSSPt92-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Caveira wields her 92 one handed while in "Silent-Step" mode. Note that the "custom suppressor" is just the same Osprey 9 as other pistols, wrapped in a mysterious shroud.]]
[[File:RSSPt92-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Capitão ejects a magazine, note the low button release. This leads to a rather flamboyant "holding the pistol as high as possible while dropping the mag" show of reloading.]]
[[File:RSSPt92-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Caveira racks the slide to chamber a round on her Luison. The alleged "non-lethal" rounds seem just as lethal as other pistols, though; its only difference is that it will only incapacitate targets (unless the victim is the last person alive on the enemy team) to allow Caveira a chance to interrogate them and expose the rest of the enemy's positions.]]
[[File:RSS Taurusactual.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the Skull Rain loading screens shows the actual PT92, however, a current production PT92AF to be precise.]]

==SIG-Sauer P229 Elite==
The [[SIG-Sauer P229|P229 Elite]] is used by the SAT Operators from the Operation Red Crow expansion. It appears as simply the "P229".
[[Image:P229_Elite_Stainless.jpg|thumb|350px|none|SIG-Sauer P229 Elite - .40 S&W]]
[[File:R6S-p229.jpg|thumb|600px|none|P229 in lobby. Note the Elite beavertail frame with front strap checkering.]]
[[File:RSSP229.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hibana patrols the rooftop dojo, P229 Elite at the ready.]]
[[File:RSSP229ads.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the SIG.]]
[[File:RSSP229-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading. It predictably uses the same animations as the SAS's SIG P226.]]
[[File:RSSP229-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Fresh mag-in, preparing to release the slide from empty.]]

==Heckler & Koch USP Compact==
The [[Heckler & Koch USP Compact]] is used by the GEO Operators from the Operation Velvet Shell expansion. It appears as the "USP40".
[[Image:Usp40compact.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Heckler & Koch USP Compact - .40 S&W]]
[[File:RainbowSixSiege-USP40.jpg|thumb|600px|none|USP40 in lobby. The pistol has a custom black ergonomic grip, which combines with the default tan body and black slide to give it a somewhat three-tone appearance.]]
[[File:RSS USP40 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jackal holds down a hallway with the USP compact.]]
[[File:RSS USP40 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the USP.]]
[[File:RSS USP40 3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mashing in a new magazine.]]
[[File:RSS USP40 4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Followed by a tug of the slide, similar to the full-size USP used by the GSG-9 operators.]]
[[File:RSS USP40 5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melee bashing with the pistol.]]

==Norinco QSZ-92==
The 9x19mm variant of the [[Norinco QSZ-92]] is used by the SDU Operators featured in the Operation Blood Orchid DLC, but with a lowered capacity of 10 rounds instead of 15. It appears as the "Q-929".
[[Image:QSZ-92.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Norinco QSZ-92 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-q929.jpg|thumb|600px|none|QSZ-92 in lobby. Note the CF-07 marking on the slide. This is most likely modified from the CF-98 markings on export QSZ-92 pistols, but CF-07 is an actual (but very obscure) Chinese compact pistol derived from the QSZ-92.]]
[[File:RSS QSZ-92 (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|SDU operative Lesion skulks around outside with his QSZ-92.]]
[[File:RSS QSZ-92 (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming at a hostile ice cream truck.]]
[[File:RSS QSZ-92 (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ying reloads her QSZ.]]
[[File:RSS QSZ-92 (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the pistol from empty.]]
[[File:RSS QSZ-92 (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lesion whips a heroin packet with his sidearm.]]

==PR-15 Ragun==
The Polish [[PR-15 Ragun]] was added to the game with the Operation Blood Orchid expansion. It is referred to as the "RG15", and is used by the GROM defender Ela and GROM attacker Zofia (who was released in Operation White Noise, the season after Blood Orchid). It features a permanently-attached SIG ROMEO1 reflex sight which was originally exclusive to this pistol in-game before the inclusion of the Taurus 4510PLYFS with the Italian GIS faction. Interestingly, pre-release renders of Ela showed her instead holding a [[SIG-Sauer P228]] with a red-dot sight.
[[File:ragunpistol.jpg|thumb|350px|none|PR-15 Ragun - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-rg15.jpg|thumb|600px|none|PR-15 Ragun in lobby. A unique green colored laser, mounted in the guide rod, can be bought as an upgrade for the pistol.]]
[[File:RSS PR-15 (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ela looks down a corridor with the PR-15 Ragun.]]
[[File:RSS PR-15 (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the ROMEO1 red dot sight.]]
[[File:RSS PR15 (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the Ragun. Note the unusually large slide serrations.]]
[[File:RSS PR-15 (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Thumbing the slide release.]]
[[File:RSS PR-15 (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meleeing with the PR15.]]

==CZ 75 Automatic==
The [[CZ 75 Automatic]] using 26 round magazines was added to the game with the Operation White Noise expansion. It is referred to as the "C75 Auto", and is used by the 707th Special Mission Battalion operators. It is classified as Machine Pistol in-game.
[[Image:Cz75fa.jpg|thumb|350px|none|CZ 75 Automatic - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-c75auto.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CZ 75 Automatic in lobby.]]
[[File:RSS CZ75 (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vigil points his CZ 75 at a suspect pantry.]]
[[File:RSS CZ75 (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights. Despite the Picatinny rail drilled into the slide, it cannot accept other sight options, like the M9A1 in [[Call of Duty: Ghosts]].]]
[[File:RSS CZ75 (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading in the presence of a Buddha.]]
[[File:RSS CZ75 (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rechambering the CZ.]]
[[File:RSS CZ75 (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melee-ing. The slide is locked back in this instance.]]

==Taurus 4510PLYFS==

The [[Taurus 4510PLYFS]] is a sidearm option for Italian GIS Operators Alibi and Maestro, added in Year 3 Season 2 Operation Para Bellum. It is a .410 shotgun revolver that holds 5 rounds. In ''Siege'', it is called the "Bailiff 410" and comes equipped with a fixed ROMEO1 reflex sight, just as the GROM's PR-15 Ragun does.
[[File:Taurus 4510Plyfs.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Taurus 4510PLYFS - 410 gauge]]
[[File:R6S Judge.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Bailiff 410 in the main menu. The Bailiff 410's laser mount is located on the right side of the revolver, in a similar fashion to the PR-15. Also note the custom grip.]]
[[File:R6S Judge Idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Bailiff in game.]]
[[File:R6S Judge Sights.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming with the mini-reflex sight.]]
[[File:R6S Judge Reload 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ejecting the spent .410 shells.]]
[[File:R6S Judge Reload 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Putting in new shells. Rather weirdly, there are different animations for non-empty and empty reloads (despite there being no open/closed bolt tracking on this gun nor the need to chamber anything), with the non-empty reload animation ending with a very un-Tom Clancylike flick to shut the cylinder, and the empty reload ending with the operator pushing it shut and giving it a spin, [[Half-Life 2|Gordon Freeman]]-style.]]
[[File:R6S Judge Melee.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Punching a table.]]

==Chiappa Rhino 40DS==
The [[Chiappa Rhino 40DS]], referred to in-game as the "KERATOS .357" ("keratos" being Greek for "horn"), was added in Operation Para Bellum, and can be used by both Alibi and Maestro. It is rather bizarrely depicted as being capable of using a suppressor; with the exception of the [[Nagant M1895]], revolvers fitted with suppressors serve essentially no purpose, as the gases that escape through the gap between the cylinder and barrel would more or less completely negate any noise-reducing effects that the suppressor would otherwise have. This mistake is made even more bizarre by the fact that the game's 2 other revolvers, the [[Taurus 4510PLYFS]] and the [[Smith & Wesson Model 586]], are both correctly shown as being unable to use a suppressor.
[[File:Chiappa Rhino 4".jpg|thumb|350px|none|Chiappa Rhino 40DS (4" barrel version) - .357 Magnum]]
[[File:R6S-Rhino-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "KERATOS .357", as the game calls it, in the main menu. The markings read ".357 MAGNUM cal." on the first line, "Made in Italy" on the second, and "76481" (presumably a serial number) on the third.]]
[[File:R6S-Rhino-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Maestro's view of the Rhino. What may appear to be some sort of underbarrel module is actually just the severed head of a stone statue sitting on the floor.]]
[[File:R6s-rhino-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the Rhino's sights, which are a nice combination of green dots on the rear sight and a red fiber-optic insert in the front, though the lighting in this room makes the latter rather hard to see.]]
[[File:R6s-rhino-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ejecting a set of spent cases from the cylinder...]]
[[File:R6s-rhino-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and inserting 6 fresh rounds, with the help of a speedloader. The reload animation is pretty much identical to the S&W Model 586 reload animation.]]
[[File:R6s-rhino-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pistol-whipping a table with the Rhino.]]

==CZ P-10C==
The [[CZ P-10C]] is one of the weapons available to the GSUTR Defender Clash. It features a permanently-attached SIG ROMEO1 red dot sight like the PR-15 Ragun and a blue flat faced HB industries aftermarket trigger.
[[Image:CZ P-10C.jpg|thumb|350px|none|CZ P-10C - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-p10c.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The P-10C in lobby.]]

=Submachine Guns=
Most of the Submachine Guns are available only to Defenders in Multiplayer, with the exception of the MAC-11, Minebea M-9 and the UDP. None are used by AI enemies in Terrorist Hunt.

==FN P90 TR==
The [[FN P90 TR]] is available to the GIGN Defenders.
[[file:FN P90 Triple Rail (TR).jpg|thumb|none|450px|FN P90 TR with optics removed and empty magazine - 5.7x28mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN P90 TR.jpg|thumb|600px|none|FN P90 TR menu model. Note the grey material covering most of the magazine (it's presumably duct tape).]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN P90 TR holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The P90 TR in idle.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN P90 TR aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN P90 TR reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the P90.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FN P90 TR reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chambering a new round. The "duct tape" is probably there to cover up the fact that Ubisoft didn't animate the rounds inside of it, but this seems unlikely as the small visible portion of the magazine is clearly solid tan.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5 MLI==
The [[Heckler & Koch MP5 MLI]] is also usable by the GIGN Recruit and Defense operators. It appears as the "MP5".
[[file:Heckler-Koch-MP5-MLI.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch MP5 MLI - updated with a triple-rail forearm, a quick-release-mount, and the new RAL8000 color scheme - 9x19mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5A3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Heckler & Koch MP5 MLI in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5A3 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Holding the Heckler & Koch MP5 MLI.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5A3 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the stock ironsights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5A3 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the MP5.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5A3 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Thumbing the bolt, a rather downplayed variation on the HK Slap.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW==
The [[Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW]] is available in the game, issued to SAS Defenders.
[[file:MP5K-PDW.jpg|thumb|none|450px|MP5K-PDW with its extended barrel with 3 lugs & folding stock - 9x19mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW1 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The MP5K-PDW in the hands of a SAS Recruit.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW1 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW1 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Changing magazines.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW1 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|About to push the bolt into battery.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP7A1==
The [[Heckler & Koch MP7A1]] is issued to the GSG-9 Defense Recruit and Bandit. It has a 30 round magazine capacity despite being modeled with the 40 round magazine. For some reason, the developers also modeled the charging handle to be permanently in its pulled back position, and it's even visible on HUD icons (although this error was fixed in "Operation Black Ice" update; as of the Dust Line update, the carabiner clipped to the rear sling mount was removed in favor of a "charm" mount instead).
[[file:MP7 40rdmag.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with Zeiss Z-Point red dot sight and 40-round magazine - 4.6x30mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP7A1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 in lobby (Before "Operation Black Ice" update).]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP7A1 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In-game view of the pre-"Black Ice" MP7A1.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP7A1 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming through the MP7's iron sights. Similar to [[Medal_of_Honor:_Warfighter#Heckler_.26_Koch_MP7A1|Medal of Honor: Warfighter]], the sights are in the raised position.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP7A1 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch MP7A1 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pressing the bolt release.]]

==Heckler & Koch UMP45==
The [[Heckler & Koch UMP45]] is used by the FBI Defenders. The charging handle incorrectly locks back on its own when the magazine is emptied, similar to the MP5 in the ''[[Far Cry 3]]'' and ''[[Far Cry 4]]''.
[[file:UMP 45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch UMP45 - .45 ACP]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch UMP45.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Heckler & Koch UMP45 in the lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch UMP45 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First-person view of the UMP45.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch UMP45 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch UMP45 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch UMP45 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cocking the UMP.]]

==PP-19-01 Vityaz-SN==
The [[PP-19-01 Vityaz]] appears as the "9×19VSN" and is available to Spetsnaz defenders Tachanka and Kapkan, as well as the Recruit on defense. It is heavily customized with Zenitco furniture, including a B-13 optic mount that remains permanently on the weapon, optic on or off.
[[File:VityazsnOSN.jpg|thumb|none|450px|PP-19-01 Vityaz-SN with Zenit accessories - 9x19mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PP-19-01 Vityaz-SN.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Vityaz-SN menu model.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PP-19-01 Vityaz-SN holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Vityaz-SN in first person.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PP-19-01 Vityaz-SN aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights. Note the B-13 despite no optic being equipped.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PP-19-01 Vityaz-SN reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Removing a magazine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PP-19-01 Vityaz-SN reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reaching for the charging handle.]]

==MAC-11==
A [[MAC-11]] with the upper receiver of a MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST appears as the "SMG-11," as in ''[[Watch_Dogs]]''. The shape of the ejection port denotes it as the .45 version. It is exclusively used as a sidearm by Sledge, Smoke, and SAS Recruits.
[[file:Mpa10sst.jpg|thumb|none|450px|MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST - .45 ACP]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege MAC-11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The "SMG-11" in the lobby; note the stock similar to a Micro-Uzi's.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege MAC-11 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The MAC-11 in first person.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege MAC-11 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege MAC-11 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Opening the bolt on the M11. For balancing reasons, that large magazine only holds 16 rounds, and despite having a proper animation for an open bolt gun, it still tracks +1 round in the chamber incorrectly.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege MAC-11 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new magazine.]]

==="SMG-12"===
The "SMG-12" is a sidearm available to the Korean 707th SMB Operators, and appears to be a further development of the SAS's "SMG-11". It appears to be a heavily modified MasterPiece Arms MPA935SST and was initially integrally suppressed, although this feature was removed in the first Year 3 patch.
[[File:Mpa935SST.jpg|thumb|none|450px|MasterPiece Arms MPA935SST - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-smg12.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The "SMG-12" in lobby.]]
[[File:RSS MPA (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dokkaebi rappels off a tower in Seoul, "SMG-12" in hand.]]
[[File:RSS MPA (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights while in an elevator shaft.]]
[[File:RSS MPA (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Opening the bolt of the "SMG-12".]]
[[File:RSS MPA (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new MPA-style magazine.]]
[[File:RSS MPA (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|The SMG's melee animation, as seen here with Dokkaebi pistol-whipping a light fixture.]]

==Magpul FMG-9==
The [[Magpul FMG-9]] is available in the game, and is exclusively used by Smoke or the SAS Defender Recruit.
[[file:MagpulFMG-9.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Magpul FMG-9 in open form - 9x19mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Magpul FMG-9.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Magpul FMG-9 menu model.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Magpul FMG-9 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holding a Magpul FMG-9.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Magpul FMG-9 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Magpul FMG-9 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Magpul FMG-9 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Thumbing the internal slide release.]]

==C1 Submachine Gun==
The [[Sterling SMG|C1 Submachine Gun]], the Canadian variant of Sterling SMG, has been available in the game since the Operation Black Ice expansion was released. It is referred to as the "9mm C1", and is exclusive to the JTF-2 Defender Frost.
[[File:C1-smg.jpg|thumb|none|450px|C1 Submachine Gun - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-sterling-001.jpg|thumb|600px|none|9mm C1 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSSterling.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Prior to the Skull Rain DLC, Frost used to wield her C1 SMG incorrectly by gripping the magazine.]]
[[File:RSSSterling-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sight view of the C1 Submachine Gun.]]
[[File:RSSSterling-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Locking the bolt back on a full reload.]]
[[File:RSSC1smg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After the Skull Rain DLC was released, Frost was updated to grip the C1 SMG correctly by the heat shield.]]
[[File:RSSC1smg-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the C1 SMG. It still inaccurately tracks +1 in the chamber.]]

==SIG-Sauer MPX==
The [[SIG-Sauer MPX]] is one of the weapons available to the Navy SEAL Operator Valkyrie. It is referred to as the "MPX".
[[file:SIG_MPX.jpg|thumb|none|450px|SIG-Sauer MPX - 9x19mm]]
[[file:R6S-mpx.jpg|thumb|600px|none|MPX in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSMPX.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Valkyrie wields the SIG MPX.]]
[[File:RSSMPX-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS view of the MPX.]]
[[File:RSSMPX-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Valkyrie rather dramatically pitches the gun upwards when swapping magazines.]]
[[File:RSSMPX-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|She then turns the gun over to yank the charging handle.]]

==Beretta PM12S==
The [[Beretta M12]], with the stock extended, is one of the weapons available to the BOPE defender Caveira. As with other open bolt weapons in-game, it is incorrectly portrayed as having an additional round in the chamber.
[[File:BerettaPM12S.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Beretta PM12S - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-m12.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M12 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSM12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The PM12S inside a favela laundry.]]
[[File:RSSM12-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS of the PM12S.]]
[[File:RSSM12-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the Beretta PM12S. Note the safety marking is printed opposite of the Beretta model; this actually matches the Taurus MT-12AD produced in Brazil.]]
[[File:RSSM12-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Locking the bolt back, which apparently chambers a fresh round according to Rainbow logic.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5SD2==
The [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD|Heckler & Koch MP5SD2]] is one of the weapons available to the SAT Defender Echo. It is referred to as the "MP5SD".
[[Image:MP5SD2.jpg|thumb|none|451px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD2 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-mp5sd.jpg|thumb|600px|none|MP5SD in lobby. Note the original SEF trigger group indicating the model being MP5SD2. A KAC M4 RIS is also zip-tied to the handguard.]]
[[File:RSSMP5SD.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Looking a high tech display of some Tokyo towers.]]
[[File:RSSMP5SDads.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the MP5SD2.]]
[[File:RSSMP5SD-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Locking the bolt back, same as the other faction's MP5 variants.]]
[[File:RSSMP5SD-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Fresh magazine loaded...]]
[[File:RSSMP5SD-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and the aftermath of a gentle HK-slap.]]
[[File:RSSMP5SD-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melee animation.]]

==Minebea M-9==
The [[Minebea M-9]] is a sidearm available to the Japanese SAT Operators. It is referred to as the "Bearing 9".
[[File:Minebea_M-9_submachine_gun_(New).jpg|thumb|none|450px|Minebea M-9 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-bearing9.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"Bearing 9" in lobby. Minebea stands for "Nippon Miniature Bearing Company," which likely explains the odd in-game designation.]]
[[File:RSSM-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Echo observes some more traditional Japanese fighting gear, Minebea M-9 in hand.]]
[[File:RSSM-9ads.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the M-9.]]
[[File:RSSM-9-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading, basically the same procedure as seen on the M11.]]
[[File:RSS-M-9-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Charging the M-9, ''Modern Warfare'' style (although Echo at least has the decency to use the vertical foregrip).]]
[[File:RSSM-9-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Breaking in to one of the display cases.]]
[[File:RSS M-9 4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The empty reload animation actually changes when an optic is mounted on the M-9, another nice detail.]]

==Angstadt Arms UDP-9==
The [[Angstadt Arms UDP-9]] is available in the game with the Operation Velvet Shell expansion. It is referred to as the "PDW9", and is used by the GEO attacker Jackal, unlike the other submachine guns. It feeds from KCI 50-round 9mm Glock drum magazines (also known by other imported rebranded names such as SGM Tactical drum mags) and has a Rainier Arms ambidextrous charging handle.
[[File:UDP-9 PDW.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Angstadt Arms UPD-9 PDW - 9x19mm]]
[[File:RainbowSixSiege-PDW9.jpg|thumb|600px|none|PDW9 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSS UDP-9 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Angstadt Arms UDP-9 in idle.]]
[[File:RSS UDP-9 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS view.]]
[[File:RSS UDP-9 3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sliding in a new drum.]]
[[File:RSS UDP-9 4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chambering a round. Note that the bolt is static though, and doesn't move.]]
[[File:RSS UDP-9 5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bashing a drink glass with the collapsible stock.]]

==TDI Vector==
A Gen I / Gen II hybrid [[TDI Vector]] is available in the game with the Operation Velvet Shell expansion. It is referred to as the "Vector .45 ACP" (the same name it goes by in the ''Far Cry'' games), and is exclusive to the GEO Operator "Mira".

[[Image:KRISSVectorBlank.jpg|thumb|none|450px|TDI / KRISS USA Gen I Vector - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:KRISS VECTOR GEN-II CRB BL-PL.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Gen II KRISS USA Vector CRB Enhanced - .45 ACP]]
[[File:RainbowSixSiege-Vector45acp.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Vector .45 ACP in lobby. Note the Magpul UBR stock, and that it has the Gen II stock adaptor and pistol grip, but a Gen I trigger.]]
[[File:RSS Vector 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mira observes both sides of her one-way window gadget in the resort's courtyard, Vector in hand.]]
[[File:RSS Vector 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming; it uses the same iron sights as the GSG-9's M870 shotgun.]]
[[File:RSS Vector 3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dropping a spent magazine.]]
[[File:RSS Vector 4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new one.]]
[[File:RSS Vector 5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Charging the Vector.]]
[[File:RSS Vector 6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Attacking the floorboards with the UBR stock.]]

==="V308"===
A fictional 7.62x51mm NATO version appears as the primary choice for GIGN CBRN specialist Lion, of the Operation Chimera expansion. It bears a strong resemblance to the sci-fi weapon design "HK G56" by concept artist AlexJJessup, and uses an X Products type drum magazine, similar to the X-91 already used by the G8A1 in-game, though this one is adapted for the fictional .308 Vector magwell. It is referred to as the "V308".
[[File:R6S-v308.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"V308" in lobby.]]
[[File:R6S V308 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"V308" in game being held by Lion.]]
[[File:R6S V308 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Aiming down sights.]]
[[File:R6S V308 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Removing the magazine.]]
[[File:R6S V308 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Inserting a fresh 50 round drum.]]
[[File:R6S V308 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Lion moves to hit the bolt release with the palm of his hand.]]
[[File:R6S V308 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Hitting the ground with the Magpul stock.]]

==Jianshe JS 9mm==
The [[QCW-05#Jianshe JS 9mm|Jianshe JS 9mm]] is one of the weapons available to the SDU Defender Lesion. It is referred to as the "T-5 SMG", and is depicted with an incorrect reciprocating charging handle and closed bolt operation.
[[Image:JS05.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Jianshe JS 9mm - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-t5smg.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jianshe JS 9mm in lobby. Note the weird rail bits added to the side of gun. The Chinese text on the magazine well reads "Warning: Read Operating Manual before Use"]]
[[File:RSS JS-9 (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lesion looks at a wall with his JS 9mm.]]
[[File:RSS JS-9 (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS view.]]
[[File:RSS JS-9 (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tossing out a spent magazine.]]
[[File:RSS JS-9 (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle.]]
[[File:RSS JS9 (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bashing with the JS 9mm. Note the spent magazine on the floor.]]

==CZ Scorpion Evo 3 S1 Carbine==
The [[CZ_Scorpion_Evo_3_series#CZ_Scorpion_Evo_3_A1|CZ Scorpion Evo 3 S1 Carbine]], a civilian variant of the Scorpion Evo 3 A1, is one of the primary weapons available to the GROM Defender Ela. Unlike its real-world counterpart, (a civilian semi-auto carbine), it fires full-auto in-game like a standard Evo 3 A1; interestingly, it is modeled with the correct fire selector for such a weapon, rather than the 2-position safe-semi selector of the S1. It uses magazines fitted with CZ Custom magazine extensions; this initially gave them a correct capacity of 50 rounds, but this was later reduced to 40, for balance reasons. It also sports a HB Industries THETA trigger and charging handle in a bright green color, and the extended receiver features Picatinny rails on the M-LOK slots.
[[File:CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Carbine Muzzle Brake.jpg|thumb|none|450px|CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Carbine with muzzle brake - 9x19mm]]
[[File:CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|CZ Scorpion Evo 3 A1 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-scorpionevo3a1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The "Scorpion Evo 3 A1" in the menu. Note the threadless barrel (although the flash hider attachment gives it the factory Evo 3 A1 flash hider) and sand-colored finish that is faded on the mag and grip. Also note the oddly segmented rails on the top and bottom of the weapon.]]
[[File:RSS Scorpion (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Evo 3 S1 Carbine in idle.]]
[[File:RSS Scorpion (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the Scorpion.]]
[[File:RSS Scorpion (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading, in-between magazines. Here, both the weapon's name and the 4-position fire selector are clearly visible.]]
[[File:RSS Scorpion (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|On empty reloads, Ela locks the charging handle back...]]
[[File:RSS Scorpion (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|...changes magazines...]]
[[File:RSS Scorpion (6).jpg|thumb|none|600px|And drives it home with more thorough HK-slap than the gentle tap seen on the [[MP5]] variants.]]
[[File:RSS Scorpion (7).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meleeing with the Scorpion Evo 3.]]

==Beretta Mx4 Storm==
Alibi, one of the 2 operators added in Operation Para Bellum, has access to a [[Beretta Mx4 Storm]] submachine gun.
[[File:Beretta Mx4 Storm.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Beretta Mx4 Storm - 9x19mm Parabellum]]
[[File:R6S Mx4 Storm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mx4 in the lobby. Note the strange top rail - the standard full-length rail is replaced with a different system, which then has a normal Picatinny rail attached to it anyways.]]
[[File:R6S Mx4 Storm Idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mx4 in Alibi's hands. It only seems fitting to show this weapon in the map that was released in the same DLC as it - Villa.]]
[[File:R6S Mx4 Storm Sights.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The submachine gun's iron sights; looking just below the rear sight reveals a folded-down aperture sight; sadly, this isn't selectable in-game.]]
[[File:R6S Mx4 Storm Reload 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dropping a spent magazine out of the Mx4. Note the non-standard round charging handle.]]
[[File:R6S Mx4 Storm Reload 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sending the bolt into battery with a quick flick of the bolt release.]]
[[File:R6S Mx4 Storm Melee.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mx4's melee attack animation, which shows off the weapon's seldom-seen stock and right-hand side.]]

==Brügger & Thomet MP9==
The [[Brügger & Thomet MP9]] is one of the weapons available to the GSUTR Defender Clash. It is referred to as the "SPSMG9", uses 20-round magazines, features a permanently attached red dot sight, and is locked in two-round burst fire mode.
[[Image:Mp9tmp.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Brügger & Thomet MP9 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:R6S-spsmg9.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Brügger & Thomet MP9 in lobby.]]

=Assault Rifles, Carbines & Battle Rifles=
With the exception of the HK416C and Daewoo K1A, these weapons are only usable by Attackers in Multiplayer. This large category of weapons is also sub-divided into Assault Rifles and Marksman Rifles in-game, the latter of which all fire semi-auto only.
==Enfield L85A2==
The [[L85A2|Enfield L85A2]] is available in the game, and issued to the SAS Attackers. It is also the primary weapon of the "White Mask" terrorists in the Terrorist Hunt mode.
[[file:L85A2 upgraded.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Enfield L85A2 with magazine removed, railed fore-end, ACOG scope, Grippod foregrip, and Surefire FHSA80SA flash hider - 5.56x45mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege L85A2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Enfield L85A2 in lobby. Note the shorter-than-normal barrel compared to the reference image.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege L85A2 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The L85A2 in idle.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege L85A2 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the carry handle iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege L85A2 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting an empty magazine. Bullets have since been added in a patch.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege L85A2 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ignoring the bolt release, the recruit tugs the charging handle to release the bolt.]]

==FAMAS F1==
The [[FAMAS F1]] appears in the game as the "F2" and so far incorrectly holds 30 rounds in 25-round magazines. It is used by the GIGN Attacker Recruit and Operator Twitch.
[[file:Famas.jpg|thumb|450px|none|FAMAS F1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FAMAS F1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|FAMAS F1 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FAMAS F1 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Twitch holds the FAMAS.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FAMAS F1 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the second pair of iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FAMAS F1 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new magazine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege FAMAS F1 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Charging the FAMAS.]]

==Heckler & Koch G36C==
The [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36C]] is available in the game, and exclusively used by FBI Attacker Ash.
[[file:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C - 5.56x45mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege g36c.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C in lobby. Note the strange texture on the magazine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege g36c holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ash modeling the G36C.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege g36c aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the G36C iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege g36c reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Swapping magazines.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege g36c reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Releasing the bolt.]]

==Heckler & Koch HK33A2==
The [[Heckler & Koch HK33A2]] appears as the "AR33", and is used by SAS Operator Thatcher and SAS recruits. It uses a 30-round magazine, though it only holds 25 rounds. It has a permanently attached optic rail, a rail on the bottom of the handguard, and a "charm mount" was on the left side of the stock, above the stock pins, but was updated to be on the rearward most claw on the optic mount. The rear sight is removed when using optics.
[[file:HK33w25rdMag.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch HK33A2 Select Fire rifle with Factory 25rd Magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK33A2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Heckler & Koch HK33A2 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK33A2 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The HK33A2 in the hands of an SAS Recruit.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK33A2 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the HK diopter sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK33A2 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Changing mags on the HK33.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK33A2 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Charging the rifle. Unlike the other HK roller-delayed blowbacks, the bolt isn't locked back on this variant's reload.]]

==Heckler & Koch HK416C==
The [[Heckler & Koch HK416C]] is appears as the "416-C CARBINE". Prior to the "White Noise" update that added the Daewoo K1A for Vigil, it was the only assault rifle usable on the Defender's side; issued to the GSG-9 Recruit and Jäger.
[[file:HK416C.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch HK416C ultra-compact carbine with 9" barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK416C.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The HK416C in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK416C holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Recruit holds the HK416C.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK416C aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK416C reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading a STANAG magzine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK416C reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle.]]

==Heckler & Koch HK417==
The [[Heckler & Koch HK417]] is available to the GIGN attacker recruit, Twitch, and GIGN CBRN specialist Lion. It is intended to be used as a DMR, as it is restricted to semi-auto only. It is also modeled with a 20-round magazine, which is rendered solid instead of transparent, but the in-game capacity is only 10 rounds.
[[file:HK417 16.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch HK417 with sights removed and 16" barrel - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK417.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Heckler & Koch HK417 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK417 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The HK417 in idle.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK417 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS view.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK417 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the 417.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch HK417 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle, again....Note the fire selector is properly set to semi-auto.]]

==AK-12==
The original prototype variation of the [[AK-12]] is issued to the Spetsnaz recruit and operator Fuze.
[[file:Ak-12.jpg|thumb|450px|none|AK-12 - 5.45x39mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege ak-12.jpg|thumb|600px|none|AK-12 menu model.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege ak-12 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AK-12 in first person.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege ak-12 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege ak-12 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Throwing away an empty magazine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege ak-12 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|About to send the AK-12's bolt home. Unlike other games, the bolt is shown locking open, which is a feature of the current production model AK-12. Also unlike several games, the player character does not feel the need to ignore the left-side charging handle and reach underneath the weapon to grab the right-side one.]]

==Remington R4-C==
A [[Remington R4|Remington R4-C]] appears simply as the "R4-C" and is available to the FBI SWAT recruit and offensive Operator Ash. It is modeled with a Magpul MOE pistol grip, CTR buttstock, and Remington RAHG modular forend with rail sections permanently installed. The weapon's charm mount is located in the middle of the receiver, close to the top rail.
[[file:RemingtonR4C.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Remington R4-C - 5.56x45mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Remington R4-C.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Remington R4-C menu model. On the left side, one can see that the operator has written "pew pew" on the auto selector position in red marker pens.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Remington R4-C holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The R4-C in first person, which is held by the magwell.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Remington R4-C aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Remington R4-C reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling out an old magazine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Remington R4-C reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chambering a new round.]]

==SIG SG 552==
The [[SIG SG 552]] is appears as the "552 Commando". Like in [[Rainbow Six: Vegas|previous]] [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2|games]], it has a 30 round magazine capacity despite being modeled with the 20 round magazine. It can be seen in terrorist hands in the Terrorist Hunt mode. The SG 552 is used by GSG-9 Attacker recruits and IQ.
[[file:SIG SG552.jpg|thumb|450px|none|SIG SG 552 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 552.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SIG SG 552 in lobby. The magazine has an unusual waffle-like pattern.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 552 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The SG 552 in idle.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 552 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 552 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the SIG SG 552.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 552 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Moving to tug the charging handle.]]

==SIG-Sauer SIG556xi SWAT==
The [[SIG SG 556|SIG-Sauer SIG556xi SWAT]] with a full-auto lower and a 16" barrel is available to operative Thermite and the FBI Recruit.

A fun little trivia: in the "Inside Rainbow" trailer series showcasing the CTUs, Glaz is seen using the weapon in the the SAS, FBI SWAT, and GIGN trailers. The model is slightly different, with more segments on the handguard and R4-C-styled diamond iron sights, and is also incredibly broken - it sounds like an OTs-03 when fired, and Glaz's hand isn't even on the trigger when firing. He got the proper SVU model by the release of the GSG-9 and the Spetsnaz trailers.
[[file:SIG-Sauer SIG556XI SWAT 16in.jpg|thumb|450px|none|SIG-Sauer SIG556xi SWAT 16in - 5.56x45mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 556xi.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SIG556xi SWAT in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 556xi holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FBI SWAT operative Thermite models the SIG556xi SWAT. Note the charging handle is on the left side of the ambi reciever as can be done in real life.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 556xi aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 556xi reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege SIG SG 556xi reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chambering the SIG556xi SWAT. It is the only base game assault rifle with a used bolt release.]]

==Steyr AUG A2==
The [[Steyr AUG A2]] is available in the game to the GSG-9 recruit and IQ. It is occasionally seen in terrorist hands in the Terrorist Hunt mode.
[[file:AUG A2 16.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Steyr AUG A2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Aug-A2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Steyr AUG A2 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Aug-A2 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GSG-9 operator IQ holds the AUG A2.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Aug-A2 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights, note that these are folded down MP7 iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Aug-A2 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new mag.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Aug-A2 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Charging the AUG.]]

==Colt Model 933==
A [[Colt Model 933]] with the carrying handle removed, a RIS handguard, and using Magpul PMAGs with Ranger plates has been available for JTF-2 operator Buck since the Operation Black Ice expansion was released. It is referred to incorrectly as the "[[C8 SFW|C8-SFW]]", but is identifiable as a 933 by its 11.5" barrel. It also incorrectly has a cut in the barrel for an [[M203 grenade launcher]].

It is equipped with a M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System, which is actually Buck's special gadget, the "Skeleton Key". Details of it can be seen below.
[[Image:Colt m4 commando 03.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Model 933 with 4-position stock - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:C8-SFW.jpg|thumb|none|450px|An actual C8-SFW, for comparison - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-c8sfw-001.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Model 933 in lobby. The front sight is replaced with a low profile gas block when an optic is added.]]
[[File:RSSC8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Model 933 in first person.]]
[[File:RSSC8-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sight view of the 933.]]
[[File:RSSC8-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new Magpul PMAG, which shows a good view of the underbarrel shotgun.]]
[[File:Screenshot-Original (41).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Buck karate chops the oddly-shaped charging handle back to chamber a round.]]

==C1A1==
The [[FN_FAL#L1A1|C1A1]], the Canadian variant of the L1A1 SLR, is Buck's second primary weapon choice from the Operation Black Ice expansion. It is referred to as the "CAMRS", and is fitted with an L1A1 SLR's synthetic stock and handguard. Like the "C8-SFW", Buck's special gadget the "Skeleton Key" (a M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System) is attached to the weapon, details of which can be seen below.
[[file:C1a1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Canadian C1A1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[file:L1A1-SLR.jpg|thumb|none|450px|L1A1 SLR - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-camrs-001.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAMRS in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSC1A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The C1A1, wielded by Buck.]]
[[File:RSSC1A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|View of the C1A1's distinct ring aperture rear sight.]]
[[File:RSSC1A1-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new magazine, which give a good view of the real name on receiver.]]
[[File:RSSC1A1reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chambering a round on a C1A1 customized with a muzzle device and an Aimpoint Micro T1.]]

==FN SCAR-H CQC==
The [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|FN SCAR-H CQC]] has been available in the game since the Operation Dust Line expansion was released, for Navy SEAL operator Blackbeard. It is referred to as the "Mk17 CQB".
[[file:2fff2537c0.jpg|thumb|none|450px|FN SCAR-H CQC - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[file:R6S-mk17cqb.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mk17 CQB in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSScar.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackbeard's SCAR-H.]]
[[File:RSSScar-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS view of the Mk17.]]
[[File:RSSScarreload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the SCAR with several attachments, including Blackbeard's gadget, the Rifle Shield, attached on a pair of rail-mounted clips.]]
[[File:RSSScar-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The uncommon sight of a bolt release being used in Siege.]]

==Knight's Armament SR-25==
The [[Knight's Armament SR-25]] has been available in the game since the Operation Dust Line expansion was released. It is a second primary choice for Blackbeard.
[[file:Knights Armament SR25 ECC.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Knight's Armament SR-25 Enhanced Combat Carbine - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[file:R6S-sr25.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SR-25 in lobby. Note the clips to attach Blackbeard's Rifle Shield.]]
[[File:RSSSR25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackbeard uses his SR25 with attached gun shield to defend himself from some deranged 7.62x51mm STANAGS.]]
[[File:RSSSR25-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Troy iron sight view.]]
[[File:RSSSR25-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the SR25 ECC.]]
[[File:RSSSR25-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Operating the charging handle.]]

==DSA SA58 OSW Carbine==
A [[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSA SA58 OSW Carbine]] standing in for the for the real-world updated Brazilian-made [[FN_FAL#DSA_SA58_OSW|IMBEL M964 A1 MD-1 ParaFAL]] is the main battle rifle available to BOPE operator Capitão, under the name of "PARA-308". It has a worn tan finish and holds 30 rounds per magazine; the magazine depicted in-game is too short for that, but is also too long to be 20-rounder - 25 rounds would be a good guess.
[[Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg|thumb|none|450px|DSA SA58 OSW Carbine with 30-round magazine - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:ModernparaFAL.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Actual upgraded IMBEL M964 A1 MD-1 ParaFAL - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:R6S-para308.jpg|thumb|600px|none|PARA-308 in lobby. Note the different fire selector markings compared to the above SA58 OSW.]]
[[File:RSSSA58.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Capitão patrols a street with the OSW.]]
[[File:RSSSA58-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS view.]]
[[File:RSSSA58-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a fresh magazine of 7.62 NATO.]]
[[File:RSSSA58-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|And lastly, a refreshing tab of the FAL's lesser known bolt release.]]

==Howa Type 89-F==
The [[Howa_Type_89|Howa Type 89-F]] has been available for SAT operator Hibana with the Operation Red Crow expansion. It is referred to as the "Type-89".
[[Image:HowaType89Para.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Howa Type 89-F - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:R6S-type89.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Type-89 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSType89.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Howa Type 89-F in-game.]]
[[File:RSSType89ads.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the Type 89.]]
[[File:RSSType89-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Changing out a 20-round STANAG.]]
[[File:RSSType89-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hibana uses her right hand to chamber a round when reloading from empty.]]
[[File:RSSType89-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rifle-butting a helicopter...]]

==Colt Canada C7==
The [[M16_rifle_series#Diemaco_C7.2FColt_Model_715|Colt Canada C7]] is used exclusively by GEO Operator "Jackal" who was added with the "Operation Velvet Shell" DLC. The weapon in-game is modeled after the C7NLD, an officially dubbed, custom variant of the C7 used by the Armed Forces of the Netherlands. Along with the Dutch handguard, it is fitted with a Magpul PRS, uses PMAGs with Ranger Plates, and has the same charging handle as the UDP-9. It is named the "C7E" in-game, and is incorrectly depicted as having both fully-automatic and burst-fire modes.
[[Image:C7NLD.jpg|thumb|none|450px|C7NLD with Grip Pod and Aimpoint sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:RainbowSixSiege-C7E.jpg|thumb|600px|none|C7E menu model. Note the lack of a muzzle device and any barrel threading.]]
[[File:RSS C7E 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jackal overlooks a yacht similar the one that serves as the setting for the JTF-2 DLC.]]
[[File:RSS C7E2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the C7.]]
[[File:RSS C7E 3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading a PMAG.]]
[[File:RSS C7E 4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle.]]
[[File:RSS C7E 5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melee attack of the C7E.]]

==Daewoo K1A==
The [[Daewoo_K1_/_K2#Daewoo_K1|Daewoo K1A]] is available for 707th SMB operator Vigil with the Operation White Noise expansion. It is referred to as the "K1A" and is classified as a submachine gun; while this isn't correct from a technical standpoint, it is at least correct in the sense that that's how the Korean military classifies it. The gameplay seems to go with the SMG route too, having a damage and recoil profile more similar to other SMGs than the assault rifles.
[[Image:Carbine_Daewoo_K1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Daewoo K1A - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:R6S-k1a.jpg|thumb|600px|none|K1A in lobby. Note the rather... stylized railed handguard, and that the standard collapsible stock has been replaced with a solid stock resembling that of the [[Z-M LR 300|Z-M Weapons LR-300]].]]
[[File:RSS K1A (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|The K1A in idle.]]
[[File:RSS K1A (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the K1A.]]
[[File:RSS K1A (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading a STANAG magazine.]]
[[File:RSS K1A (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Empty reload; note the bolt release paddle is properly sticking out.]]
[[File:RSS K1A (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pressing it in.]]
[[File:RSS K1A (6).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Buttstroking with the LR-300 style stock. Note the glow-stick strapped to the stock (which also changes color depending on what weapon skin is equipped).]]

==ROCK SOPMOD M14==
The [[ROCK SOPMOD M14]] is used exclusively by 707th SMB operator Dokkaebi who was added with the Operation White Noise expansion. It is incorrectly designated "Mk 14 EBR" and locked in semi-automatic.
[[Image:SOPMODM14.jpg|thumb|none|450px|ROCK SOPMOD M14 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[File:R6S-mk14ebr.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M14 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSS M14 (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Watching a sunrise with the one-of-a-kind ROCK SOPMOD M14.]]
[[File:RSS M14 (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights.]]
[[File:RSS M14 (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Removing the magazine.]]
[[File:RSS M14 (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|In with a new one. Note the classic M14 flash hider; it can be attached as the "Flash Hider" barrel modification.]]
[[File:RSS M14 (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Releasing the bolt.]]
[[File:RSS M14 (6).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melee animation of the M14.]]

==Beryl M762==
The "M762" is the primary choice for GROM operator Zofia of the Operation White Noise expansion. It is a 7.62 AK variant with a loosely-modeled Midwest Industries Extended Handguard, a Hera Arms CQR stock, and a railed dust cover.

While supposedly a [[Kbs wz.96 Beryl|Beryl M762]] name and theme-wise, it is instead primarily inspired by a [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/30/hera-arms-cqr-stock-ak-rifle/ photoshopped image reported by the Firearms Blog], which is a [https://www.flickr.com/photos/stickgunner/21074884113/ AK-103-lookalike with the Midwest Industries Extended Handguard] with the Hera Arms CQR stock photoshopped on. The in-game AK still has the proper receiver, safety, and barrel of the Beryl M762.
[[File:HERA Arms AK Photoshop.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Arsenal SLR-107FR with the Midwest Industries Extended Handguard with the Hera Arms CQR stock photoshopped on. This is the inspiration image for the "M762" in ''Rainbow Six Siege''.]]
[[File:Beryl M762.jpg|thumb|450px|none|An actual Beryl M762 for comparison - 7.62x39mm.]]
[[File:R6S-m762.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The M762 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSS Beryl (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Zofia shows off the Beryl M762.]]
[[File:RSS Beryl (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[File:RSS Beryl (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|A foregrip-equipped Beryl, which gives a cleaner view of the rifle.]]
[[File:RSS Beryl (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading, which shows the unique foregrip that this weapon and the "BOSG 12.2" use.]]
[[File:RSS Beryl (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Charging the M762.]]
[[File:RSS Beryl (6).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melee-ing with the Hera Arms CQR stock. In real life, this stock wasn't available for AK-type rifles at the time of the release of Operation White Noise, but life imitated art (and photoshopped concepts) and the stock later became available to AK-type rifles.]]

==Saritch==
A compact version of the [[Saritch]] design concept is the primary choice for Spetsnaz CBRN specialist Finka, of the Operation Chimera expansion. This design is one conceived military version of the Saritch proposed by its designer but never mocked up, with 30 round magazines, automatic fire and a compact barrel. The in-game model is modeled quite closely after concept art from the designer. A right-facing ejection port has been added to the weapon, and the forearm is replaced with a set of underbarrel rails. It is referred to as the "Spear .308".
[[File:Saritch 308.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Saritch design concept - 7.62x51mm NATO (non-functional)]]
[[File:R6S-spear308.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Saritch in lobby. The camoflage is the weapon's default skin.]]
[[File:R6S Saritch 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Saritch in game being held by Finka.]]
[[File:R6S Saritch 3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Aiming down sights.]]
[[File:R6S Saritch 4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Removing magazine from gun, which involves a very dramatic yank.]]
[[File:R6S Saritch 5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Inserting new magazine.]]
[[File:R6S Saritch 6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Pulling the charging handle to load new round.]]
[[File:R6S Saritch 7.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Smacking a concrete wall.]]

==M4A1 Carbine==
The [[M16_rifle_series#M4.2FM4A1_Carbine|M4A1 Carbine]] is available for GSUTR operator Maverick with the Operation Grim Sky expansion. It is referred to as the "M4" and features semi-auto, 3-round burst and fully automatic fire modes.
[[Image:ColtM4A1-2.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Colt M4A1 with 6 position collapsible stock and carrying handle removed - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:R6S-m4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The M4A1 carbine in lobby.]]

==Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf==
The [[Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf]] is available for GSUTR operator Maverick with the Operation Grim Sky expansion. It is referred to as the "AR-15.50" and locked in semi-automatic fire mode. It is equipped with what seems to be a quadstack magazine modeled after a 5.56 quadstack magazine, but only holds 10 rounds in gameplay.
[[Image:AA_Beowulf.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf - .50 Beowulf]]
[[File:R6S-ar15-50.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The AA .50 Beowulf in lobby.]]

=Machine Guns=
With exception to the mounted DP-28 (technically a special gadget) and Maestro's CETME Ameli, Machine Guns are issued only to Attackers. As with the MAC-11, the open bolt machine guns incorrectly track +1 in the chamber.

==Degtyaryov DP-28==

The Spetsnaz operator Tachanka can deploy a tripod-mounted [[Degtyaryov DP-28]]. Despite being referred as the RP-46 (belt-fed version with a pistol grip), it has the original buttstock and magazines (with an incorrect 60-round capacity – this would be correct for the [[Degtyaryov DT|DT]] variant, though – instead of 47) of the DP-28, and Tachanka does refer to it as "DP-28" sometimes when deploying it. Tachanka has been said to seek out original Soviet-made parts for his weapon, however, and even going so far as to mill his own if he can't find such, making it possible that he's modified an RP-46 into a weapon resembling the DP-28.

A patch released in December 2016 added a reinforced glass shield to the turret, making its usage somewhat more viable. With the release of "Operation: Blood Orchid", the deploy animation is a bit faster, as Tachanka keeps a magazine loaded in the machine gun at all times, instead of having to load and unload when setting up or moving the turret.
[[File:DP-28.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Degtyaryov DP-28 machine gun - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[File:R6S tachanka dp.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Tachanka's DP-28 mounted on its tripod. Note the shortened barrel.]]
[[File:R6S tachanka bio.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Tachanka's profile, armed with his mounted DP-28.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege dp-28 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tachanka holds his undeployed DP-28. The large green bin seen on the far right is where additional pan magazines are stored.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege dp-28 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Manning the Degtyaryov.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege dp-28 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the magazine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege dp-28 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the custom ambidextrous charging handle.]]

==Heckler & Koch G8A1==
The G8A1, the German military version of the [[Heckler & Koch HK11|Heckler & Koch HK11A1]], is available in the game for IQ and the GSG-9 Recruit. It has a [[G3]] rear sight, added rails, and uses X Products X-91 50-round drum magazines.
[[file:Hk11e.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch HK11E - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege hk21.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Heckler & Koch G8A1 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege g8a1 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The HK G8A1, held by IQ.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege g8a1 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege g8a1 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading an X-91 drum.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege g8a1 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Locking the bolt back on an empty reload.]]

==PKP Pecheneg==
A [[PKP Pecheneg]] with an aftermarket bullpup conversion kit manufactured by Zenit is used by the Spetsnaz attacker Recruit, Fuze, and Spetsnaz CBRN specialist Finka. Some suicide bombers also use it in Terrorist Hunt; they are a force to be reckoned with.
[[file:Pkpzenit.jpg|thumb|450px|none|PKP Pecheneg with Zenit bullpup conversion kit - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PKP Pecheneg.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The PKP Pecheneg bullpup in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PKP Pecheneg holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Fuze holding the PKP. Note that it is labeled by its GRAU index of "6P41" in game.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PKP Pecheneg aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS view; an AK12 rear sight is co-opted as the new rear sight since the original is covered by a cheek rest.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PKP Pecheneg reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Opening the tray cover.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege PKP Pecheneg reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Setting in the new belt of 7.62x54R. The incorrect +1 in the chamber has since been patched.]]

==M249 SAW==
The second option for BOPE attacker Capitão is the [[FN Minimi|M249 Paratrooper SAW]]. It has a newer FN Minimi Mk 3 collapsible stock and sports a worn beige finish, similar to his SA58 OSW. Until "Operation: Blood Orchid", it incorrectly tracked a round in the chamber.
[[File:M249 Para ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M249 SAW Paratrooper - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:R6S-m249.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M249 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSM249.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M249 SAW in idle.]]
[[File:RSSM249-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|View down the rather beat up iron sights.]]
[[File:RSSM249-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Capitão moving to open the latches and pop up the feed tray cover. Note the clippage issue on the rear sight.]]
[[File:RSSM249-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Setting the fresh belt in place. Unlike the PKP, the belt does not disappear as it reaches zero, unfortunately.]]
[[File:RSSM249-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|And finally, a tug of the charging handle.]]

==Norinco QBB-95==
The [[Norinco QBB-95]] is available in the game with the Operation Blood Orchid expansion. It is indexed as the "T-95 LSW", and is usable by the SDU attacker Ying. The weapon's description inaccurately states that it fires 5.56mm rounds, even though the weapon model is clearly based on the 5.8x42mm version. The QBB is also modeled with several T97.ca upgrades from civilian Type-97 rifles, such as the Flat-Top Upper, Enhanced Trigger Group, and Lower Hand Guard upgrades.
[[Image:QBB95.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Norinco QBB-95 - 5.8x42mm]]
[[File:T97.ca.jpg|thumb|none|500px|EMEI T97NSR with T97.ca LHG (Lower Hand Guard) and FTU (Flat Top Upper) modifications - .223 Remington]]
[[File:R6S-t95lsw.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Norinco QBB-95 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSS QBB-95 (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|The QBB-95 in idle.]]
[[File:RSS QBB-95 (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming.]]
[[File:RSS QBB-95 (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the drum magazine.]]
[[File:RSS QBB-95 (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Charging the QBB.]]
[[File:RSS QBB-95 (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stock attack of the weapon.]]

==Krytac Trident LMG-E==
The same airsoft gun based on the [[Ares Shrike]] from ''[[Ghost Recon: Wildlands]]'' appears in ''Rainbow: Six Siege'' under the designation of "LMG-E". The "LMG-E" is used exclusively by GROM operator Zofia, of the Operation White Noise expansion.
[[File:Krytac-55432.jpg|thumb|none|450px|'''Airsoft''' Krytac Trident LMG-E]]
[[File:Ares-16 AMG.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Ares-16 AMG, for comparison - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:R6S-lmge.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"LMG-E" in lobby.]]
[[File:RSS LMG-E (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "LMG-E", idle.]]
[[File:RSS LMG-E (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[File:RSS LMG-E (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Opening the top cover.]]
[[File:RSS LMG-E (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting the magazine.]]
[[File:RSS LMG-E(5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Feeding the ammunition belt into the receiver.]]
[[File:RSS LMG-E (6).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Charging the "LMG-E".]]
[[File:RSS LMG-E (7).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melee animation.]]

==CETME Ameli==
The [[CETME Ameli]] is added in Operation Para Bellum as the "ALDA 5.56". Being a primary option for Defense Operator Maestro, it is the only portable LMG available to Defenders.
[[Image:CetmeAmeli556.jpg|thumb|none|500px|CETME Ameli Light Machine Gun - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[File:R6S Ameli.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The LMG in the main lobby.]]
[[File:R6S Ameli Idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Ameli in the hands of Maestro. One could presume that he stole it from the Spanish GEO faction's armory.]]
[[File:R6S Ameli Sights.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down sights.]]
[[File:R6S Ameli Reload 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lifting the tray cover to remove the spent 80 round magazine.]]
[[File:R6S Ameli Reload 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Placing a new magazine onto the gun.]]
[[File:R6S Ameli Reload 3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle.]]
[[File:R6S Ameli Melee.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hitting a table with the stock of the Ameli.]]

=Shotguns=
Shotguns are available to both sides in Multiplayer. Given the game's emphasis on micro-destruction, they make great assets in "redecorating" the interiors throughout the game's levels.
==Benelli M4 Super 90==
The [[Benelli M4 Super 90]] is available in the game, and goes by its US Military designation of M1014. Although in-game, the M4 hold 8 rounds, it is modeled with a 4-round civilian magazine-tube. The Benelli M4 is usable by every FBI operator except Ash.
[[file:Benelli m4 2.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Benelli M4 Super 90 with 4-shot tube - 12 gauge]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Benelli M4 Super 90.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Benelli M4 Super 90 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Benelli M4 Super 90 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M1014 in the hands of Thermite.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Benelli M4 Super 90 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Benelli M4 Super 90 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chamberloading the M4 Super 90.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Benelli M4 Super 90 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Loading the tube magazine.]]

==FABARM SDASS COMPACT==
A [[Heckler & Koch FABARM FP6|FABARM SDASS COMPACT]] with ghost ring sights of the "Tactical" model appears as the "SG-CQB". It can be used by every GIGN operator sans Montagne, who favors "Le Rock," a massive riot shield in exchange of a primary weapon.
[[file:FABARM SDASS compact 20.jpg|thumb|none|450px|FABARM SDASS Compact - 12 gauge]]
[[file:Fabarm Sdass tactical -1-.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|FABARM SDASS Tactical - 12 gauge]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Mossberg 500.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Heckler & Koch FABARM SDASS Tactical in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch FABARM SDASS Tactical holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Twitch holds her FABARM.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch FABARM SDASS Tactical aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the shotgun.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch FABARM SDASS Tactical reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dropping a shell into the chamber.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Heckler & Koch FABARM SDASS Tactical reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the rest of the magazine.]]

==Saiga-12K==
A heavily customized [[Saiga 12|Saiga-12K]], most closely resembling ones customized by the Hatcher Gun Company, appears as the "SASG-12" (which ''[[The Division]]'' followed suit with). It has a RIS foregrip with an aftermarket front sight and an AK-12 rear sight mounted on top, an aftermarket trigger-guard, Hogue pistol grip, and a CAA CBS AR-15 stock. It uses 8-round box magazines. The Saiga-12 is used primarily by Spetsnaz defenders, though the attacker recruit and Finka may use it as well.
[[file:Saiga 12k-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Saiga-12K - 12 gauge]]
[[File:HGC Saiga.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A heavily customized Saiga-12 by the Hatcher Gun Company (H.G.C.) - 12 gauge]]
[[file:Rainbow Six Siege Saiga-12.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Custom Saiga-12K in the lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Saiga-12K holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First-person view of the Saiga.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Saiga-12K aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Saiga-12K reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new magazine.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Saiga-12K reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle. Despite being modeled with an ambidextrous charging handle, it uses an animation similar to that of the Vityaz-SN.]]

==Mossberg 590A1 Blackwater==
The [[Mossberg 590A1|Mossberg 590A1 Blackwater]] is available in the game, issued to the SAS. The M590A1 is also somewhat used by terrorists in the Terrorist Hunt mode, though they usually carry assault rifles.
[[File:M590A1B.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Mossberg 590A1 Blackwater - 12 gauge]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Mossberg 590A1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mossberg 590A1 Blackwater in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Mossberg 590A1 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Holding the Mossberg 590A1 Blackwater.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Mossberg 590A1 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the shotgun.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Mossberg 590A1 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chamberloading the Mossberg.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege Mossberg 590A1 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Filling up the rest of the tube.]]
[[file:RSS M590A1 terrorist.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The business end of a terrorist's M590A1.]]

==G&P M870 RAS==
A cut-down [[Remington Model 870]] equipped with what appears to be an M4 stock and back-up flip sights is available to both the GSG-9 Attacker and Defender recruits, and both the GSG-9 Defender operators. It is closely modeled after the G&P M870 RAS, an airsoft Remington Model 870.
[[File:SBS4E5REM 870.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Remington 870 with Aimtec Warhammer rail system, FAB Defense stock and pump, MAGPUL Back-Up Sights, and 1st generation Bushnell Holosight - 12 gauge. This is the screen-used gun from ''[[Strike Back - Season 4]]'']]
[[file:M870.jpg|thumb|450px|none|G&P M870 RAS, Airsoft shotgun that is the inspiration for the GSG-9 shotgun.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m870.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M870 in lobby.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m870 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A GSG-9 recruit models the M870.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m870 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m870 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading. Placing a shell into the M870's chamber.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m870 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading, but this time from the magazine loading port. In spite of its size, suggesting a 3+1 capacity at the most, the weapon in-game holds an impressive 6 rounds in the tube, plus one in the chamber.]]

==Benelli M3 Super 90 Shorty==
The [[Benelli M3 Super 90|Benelli M3 Super 90 Shorty]] has been available in the game since the Operation Black Ice expansion was released, for JTF-2 defender Frost. It is referred to as the "Super 90," and operates exclusively in semi-automatic mode.
[[File:Benelli_M3_Super_90_Shorty.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Benelli M3 Super 90 Shorty - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-super90-001.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Super 90 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSM1Super90.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Benelli M3 shorty in first person.]]
[[File:RSSM1Super90-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS on the M3 Super 90; the rear sight's usefulness is negligible at best.]]
[[File:RSSM1Super90-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Frost has not yet mastered the technique of chamber-loading this Benelli....]]
[[File:RSSM1Super90-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Loading more shells in the tube.]]

==M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System==
The JTF-2 operator Buck uses the [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System]] as his gadget, equipped to whatever primary weapon (i.e. "C8-SFW" or "CAMRS") he is using. It is named the Skeleton Key, an obvious allusion to the [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]]'s name, and also a likely nod to how the fictional Skeleton Key can open any door, paired with the fact the M26 was designed to be a door-breaching (or wall-breaching as the design is applied in ''Siege'') shotgun. It has a very large spread that limits its use in combat and at range, but is ''very'' destructive, able to create giant peek holes on walls with ease when combined with its spread. Like in [[Rainbow Six: Vegas|previous]] [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2|games]], the M26 in the game is semi-automatic, while the real one is a straight-pull bolt action.
[[File:PEO M26 MASS on M4 Carbine.jpg|thumb|450px|none|M4A1 carbine fitted with M26 MASS - 5.56x45mm NATO & 12 gauge]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-c8sfw-001.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M26 MASS mounted to a Model 933 in lobby.]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-camrs-001.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M26 MASS mounted to a CAMRS in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSM26.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Activated M26 MASS on the Model 933.]]
[[File:RSSM26-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the M26; note the bolt locks back like a modern auto loading shotgun. In this instance, the carbine also sports its railed gas block instead of the front sight.]]
[[File:RSSM26-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Releasing the bolt on an empty C1A1's M26. Note the totally empty FAL magazine, even the follower is gone.]]

==Franchi SPAS-12==
The [[Franchi SPAS-12]] was released in the Operation Dustline update as a possible loadout option for Navy SEAL operator Valkyrie. As with the Benelli M3, it operates only in semi-automatic mode.
[[File:SPAS12.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Franchi SPAS-12 - 12 gauge]]
[[File:R6S-spas12.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SPAS-12 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSSPAS12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The SPAS-12 in first person.]]
[[File:RSSSPAS12-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sight view of the SPAS-12, which appear to be identical to the ones on the same weapon in ''Far Cry 3'' and ''4''.]]
[[File:RSSSPAS12-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Valkyrie, on the other hand, has mastered the ability to load her shotgun from empty. And it's nice to see that developers understand how the SPAS-12 works in semi-automatic, leaving the pump locked and stationary. Also note the first-generation lever-type safety.]]
[[File:RSSSPAS12-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In an extremely rare display of realism, Valkyrie holds the shotgun upside down to load the tube with her right hand while keeping her left forefingers on the bolt release to enable the feed door to open.]]

==Franchi SPAS-15==
The last addition of the Operation Skull Rain update is the SPAS-12's successor, the [[Franchi SPAS-15]], used exclusively by BOPE operator Caviera. It is depicted as semi-automatic only, and properly utilizes its bolt catch mechanism.
[[File:Franchi spas15.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Franchi SPAS-15 - 12 Gauge]]
[[File:R6S-spas15.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SPAS-15 in lobby.]]
[[File:RSSSPAS15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SPAS-15 in-game view.]]
[[File:RSSSPAS15-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ADS view. As with the USAS-12 from Modern Warfare 3, optics are mounted rather high on the non-removable carry handle.]]
[[File:RSSSPAS-15-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the SPAS-15 mid-magazine.]]
[[File:RSSSPAS15-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Releasing the bolt....after making a new window.]]

==Benelli Supernova==
The [[Benelli Supernova]] has been available in the game since the Operation Red Crow expansion release, and is available to both SAT Operators. It is less powerful than other pump action shotguns, but offers excellent recoil control.
[[Image:Benelli Supernova pistol grip.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Benelli Supernova with pistol grip stock combination - 12 Gauge]]
[[File:R6S-supernova.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SuperNova menu model. Note the green furniture.]]
[[File:RSSSupernova.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hibana holding the Benelli Supernova.]]
[[File:RSSSupernovaads.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights.]]
[[File:RSSSupernova-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pumping the Supernova.]]
[[File:RSSSupernova-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chamberloading the Benelli.]]
[[File:RSSSupernova-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Loading shells into the magazine tube. Like with most shotguns in Siege, the player turns it sideways/upside down.]]
[[File:RSSSupernova-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Melee attack.]]

==FABARM STF 12==
The [[FABARM STF 12]] is available for both G.E.O. operators introduced in Operation Velvet Shell, and comes in two variants, the Pistolgrip F.E. (without the muzzle brake) as the primary "ITA12L" and the Short Initial as the secondary "ITA12S".
[[File:FABARM STF 12 PISTOLGRIP F.E..jpg|thumb|none|450px|FABARM STF 12 Pistolgrip F.E. - 12 gauge]]
[[File:RainbowSixSiege-ITA12L.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ITA12L in lobby.]]
[[File:RSS STF 12 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The STF 12 in-game.]]
[[File:RSS STF 12 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming.]]
[[File:RSS STF 12 3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the STF 12 from empty.]]
[[File:RSS STF 12 4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Loading the tube magazine.]]
[[File:RSS STF 12 5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hitting a pillow with the stock.]]
[[File:FABARM STF 12 SHORT INITIAL.jpg|thumb|none|450px|FABARM STF 12 Short Initial - 12 gauge]]
[[File:RainbowSixSiege-ITA12S.jpg|thumb|none|600px|ITA12S in lobby.]]
[[File:RSS STF 126.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The STF 12 Short Initial in idle.]]
[[File:RSS STF 12 7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chamberloading the shotgun.]]
[[File:RSS STF 12 8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stuffing more shells into the tube.]]

==Crye Precision Six12==
The [[Crye Precision Six12]] is available for both SDU operators introduced in Operation Blood Orchid, and comes in two variants, the standard variant as "SIX12" for operator Ying and the integrally suppressed as "SIX12 SD" for operator Lesion.
[[Image:Crye_Precision_SIX12_2016.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Crye Precision SIX12 (2016 production) - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Six12 Suppressed.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Crye Precision Six12 with integral SilencerCo Salvo 12 shotgun suppressor - 12 gauge]]
[[File:R6S-six12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The SIX12 in lobby. Note how this one has the buttpad of the SD variant above...]]
[[File:R6S-six12sd.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...while this one, the SIX12 SD, has the buttpad of the normal variant's reference image.]]
[[File:RSS Six12 (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ying's Six12 in idle.]]
[[File:RSS Six12 (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|And Lesion's suppressed Six12, equipped with a Trijicon RMR, similar to the reference image seen above.]]
[[File:RSS Six12 (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the MBUS iron sights.]]
[[File:RSS Six12 (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading.]]
[[File:RSS Six12 (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a fresh cylinder on the SD variant.]]
[[File:RSS Six12 (6).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stock attack of the Six12. Note that the "SIX12" engraving on the magazine can be seen on certain revolutions of the cylinder.]]

==Fostech Origin-12==
The [[Fostech Origin-12]] is available in the game with the Operation Blood Orchid expansion. It is referred to as the "FO-12", and is used by the GROM defender Ela.
[[Image:Origin-12-short.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Fostech Origin-12 SBS with 5-round magazine - 12 gauge]]
[[File:R6S-fo12.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Origin-12 in the lobby. The in-game weapon uses the 10-round magazine.]]
[[File:RSS Origin-12 (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ela checks a suspicious garage door with her Origin-12.]]
[[File:RSS Origin-12 (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the "diamond" sights.]]
[[File:RSS Origin-12 (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the Origin after revealing the dastardly delivery van that was hiding outside.]]
[[File:RSS Origin-12 (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pressing the shotguns bolt release, a surprising maneuver given how most of the Rainbow operators prefer to yank their weapons' inviting charging handles instead.]]
[[File:RSS Origin-12 (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meleeing with the shotgun.]]
[[File:Fostech Origin 12.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Fostech Origin-12 - 12 gauge]]
[[File:RSS Origin-12 (6).jpg|thumb|none|600px|The extended barrel attachment turns the Origin-12 SBS back into its factory variant.]]

=="BOSG.12.2"==
The "BOSG.12.2" (BOSG presumably standing for Break-Open Shotgun, compare with how "SASG" likely stands for Semi-Auto Shotgun) is a tactical over/under shotgun that is usable by the 707th SMB operators introduced in the Operation White Noise expansion. It shares many design elements with the [[Mossberg HS12|Mossberg Maverick HS-12]] and Stoeger Double Defense Over and Under shotguns. It fires slug shells, unlike the other shotguns in the game. These slugs are extremely powerful, and have impressive capability; in the Technical Test Server, they were able to pierce the windows of the executive jet of the "Presidential Plane" map just as Glaz's SVU can, but this ability was removed in the official release.
[[File:Maverick HS12.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Maverick HS-12 Thunder Ranch - 12 gauge]]
[[File:Stoeger Double Defense OverUnder.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Stoeger Double Defense Over and Under - 12 gauge]]
[[File:R6S-bosg122.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Preview of the "BOSG.12.2".]]
[[File:RSS OverUnder (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "BOSG.12.2" in idle.]]
[[File:RSS OverUnder (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the shotgun; these sights appear to be [http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1264 Advantage Tactical pyramid pistol sights].]]
[[File:RSS OverUnder (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ejecting spent shells. Note that, despite having been fired, these shells have unstruck primers.]]
[[File:RSS OverUnder (4).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Loading two more in. Reloading with only a single shell fired will only reload that single shell, the one in the bottom barrel.]]
[[File:RSS OverUnder (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stock attack.]]

==AA-12==
Added in Operation Para Bellum, the "ACS12" is a modified [[AA-12]], and can be used by Maestro and Alibi alike. Its standard iron sights are missing, the weapon instead being fitted with a G36C-like top rail system for mounting optics, a corresponding low-profile extended charging handle, and a handguard seemingly inspired by the [[Mk 14 Enhanced Battle Rifle]]'s Kydex handguard, with rail segments on its sides and bottom. It uses 20 or 32-round drum magazines in-game, which incorrectly hold 30 rounds (plus an incorrect 1 in the chamber, Ubisoft either not realizing or caring that the AA-12 is open-bolt).

Of note is that the addition of the "ACS-12" marks the appearance of ''Siege'''s first (and so far only) fully-automatic shotgun, which also makes it the single most destructive weapon in terms of environmental destruction, able to eat through an entire wall in seconds. Balancing out its full-auto capability is its very big spread, but that's just another plus when you're busy bulldozing entire rooms because it allows more destruction per shot.

Incidentally, the name "ACS-12" was first used for this weapon in a previous Ubisoft game, ''[[Splinter Cell: Blacklist]]''. Presumably Ubisoft has its own dictionary for non-trademark-infringing weapon names for its allegedly interconnected video game universe spanning multiple franchises.
[[File:AA12FullAutoShotGun.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AA-12 - 12 gauge]]
[[File:R6S AA-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "ACS12" in the main lobby. This camouflage finish is, interestingly, the default skin for this weapon.]]
[[File:R6S AA-12 Idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AA-12 in Alibi's white-nailed hands. The text on the scope mount reads "Mil-spec 1913 Rail" on the first line, and "Scope Mount" on the second.]]
[[File:R6S AA-12 Sights.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the shotgun; someone should probably let Bandit know that Alibi stole his [[MP7|MP7A1]]'s sights.]]
[[File:R6S AA-12 Reload 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Removing an empty drum after a rather impressive demonstration of the game's destruction mechanics...]]
[[File:R6S AA-12 Reload 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...inserting a fresh one...]]
[[File:R6S AA-12 Reload 3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and ignoring enemy gunfire whilst pulling the charging handle, an action which does not apparently require touching it.]]
[[File:R6S AA-12 Melee.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Then again, Alibi can make sparks by hitting a table with a shotgun, so she might very well be some sort of magician.]]

=Sniper Rifles=
The sole real sniper rifle in the game, the SVU Dragunov, is grouped alongside the Marksman Rifles in-game.
==SVU Dragunov==
The [[SVU Dragunov]] appears as the "OTs-03", and is used by the Spetsnaz operator Glaz. It has some of the best armor penetration in the game, being capable of piercing a wide variety of surfaces with a minimal loss of damage, and, prior to Operation White Noise and its addition of the "BOSG. 12.2", being the only weapon capable of shooting through airplane windows (specifically the reinforced airplane windows on the map "Presidential Plane", which is also the only place where they appear); after the aforementioned weapon's mechanics were changed, it once again became the only weapon capable of such a feat.

Glaz's unique gadget is the magnifier on the rifle, which can be flipped into or out of the main sight plane; this does not actually require an optical sight to use, with the front iron sight serving as the reticule instead in the absence of other optics. The sight is originally a rather odd red-tinted (or completely clear, as shown in the Spetsnaz trailer) magnifier called the "HDS Flip Sight", which had no effect other than a bit of zoom. In the Velvet Shell Mid-Season Reinforcements, the magnifier lost its red tint and gained a thermal effect, highlighting enemies by their heat signature; this effect, strangely, only applies to a smaller central blue-tinted circle in the magnifier, rather than the entire thing.

A rather neat detail is that after the thermal sight update, the sight model had an extra clip-on thermal imager added to it.
[[file:Svu-a 2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|SVU Dragunov modernized with black furniture and a bipod - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siegesvu.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SVU Dragunov in lobby (pre-update).]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siegesvu holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Holding the SVU Dragunov.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siegesvu aim 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming with the regular sights.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siegesvu aim 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming with the flip-up magnifier (pre-update). The rather heavy red tint was toned down in a later patch, before being replaced by the thermal scope. The reticle seems to be from a Belarusian Zenit civilian 8x42 PSOP scope; note the .5 and 1.5 meter lines on the stadiametric range finder, which are for hunting deer and elk respectively; a military PSO-1 or PSOP (or, for that matter, presumably any military scope) would instead feature a single 1.7 meter line for human targets.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siegesvu reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the SVU.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siegesvu reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chambering a new round.]]
[[File:RSS SVU (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lining up a headshot on a suicide bomber with the thermal lens. The "red tint" one may infer from this image is actually the red wallpapers and wood furniture in the hallways of Kafe Dostoyevsky.]]
[[File:RSS SVU (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming a SVU equipped with the OKP-7 reflex sight, which shows a good view of the magnifier's thermal imager.]]
[[File:RSS SVU (3).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Butt-stroking with the SVU.]]

=Launchers=
Launchers are almost always Operator gadgets. Other launchers of note include Capitão's crossbow, Hibana's X-KAIROS, and Zofia's KS79 LIFELINE, not listed here for one reason or another.
==Heckler & Koch M320==
The [[Heckler & Koch M320]], indexed as "M120 CREM," is used by the FBI SWAT operative "Ash". It appears stand-alone in the game with a longer barrel and an under-barrel rail with an attached vertical grip instead of the the built-in folding vertical grip. Ingame it fires specialized (and, given the reload animation, seemingly caseless) breaching rounds that drill into destructible surfaces, then explode after a delay in order to ensure maximum penetration. To the relief of some and the disappointment of others, the game's list of "breachable surfaces" does not include enemies; a round that directly impacts an enemy will simply deal impact damage and bounce off.
[[file:XM320 stock extended.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch M320 with optional telescoping stock - 40x46mm]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m320 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ash with the customized Heckler & Koch M320.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m320 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming the M320 with non-standard sights mounted directly on top, similar to the [[Heckler & Koch HK69A1|HK69A1]]. The Closed Alpha launcher had them on raised rails like the image above.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m320 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Handling another breaching round.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m320 reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "M120 CREM" barrel loaded and about to be closed.]]
[[File:RSS M120 (1).jpg|thumb|none|600px|The update from "Operation Blood Orchid" altered the M320's reload animation; Ash keeps the muzzle pointed up now.]]
[[File:RSS M120 (2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bashing with the pistol grip.]]

=Grenades & Explosives=
Equipment in this category are all non-exclusive "generic" gadgets available to multiple Operators (alongside things like Barbed Wire and Deployable Shields), though they are still limited to one team.

==T13 Beano grenade==
The Impact Grenade was added on September 13, 2016, in patch 4.2. It is a modernized depiction of the WWII-era T13 Beano impact grenade. It is exclusive to defenders and deals limited damage, but is very effective at opening passageways on walls.

[[File:T13 Impact Grenade.jpg|thumb|none|200px|T13 Beano impact grenade]]

==C4==
The C4 appears as "Nitro Cell" and is available for the defenders. It is detonated by a cellphone remote.
[[file:RainbowSix Siege c4 a.jpg|thumb|600px|none|C4 in game.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege c4 b.jpg|thumb|600px|none|C4 in game.]]

==M18 smoke grenade==
The [[M18 smoke grenade]] is available to attacking operators.
[[file:M18red.jpg|thumb|none|150px|M18 smoke grenade]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m18 smoke.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M18 smoke grenade in game. Apparently, it releases grenade-colored smoke (compare with the above image).]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m18 smoke holding.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M18 smoke grenade in game.]]

==M67 hand grenade==
The [[M67 hand grenade]] is given to some attacking operators.
[[file:Baseball.jpg|thumb|none|150px|M67 hand grenade]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m67 grenade a.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M67 hand grenade in game.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m67 grenade holding.jpg|thumb|600px|none|M67 hand grenade in game.]]

==M84 Stun Grenade==
The [[M84 stun grenade]] is another non-lethal grenade for attackers.
[[File:M84-Flash-Bang-Grenade.jpg|thumb|none|150px|M84 Stun Grenade]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m84 grenade.jpg‎|thumb|600px|none|M84 Stun Grenade in game.]]
[[file:RainbowSix Siege m84 grenade holding 1.jpg‎|thumb|600px|none|M84 Stun Grenade in game.]]

==M18A1 Claymore Mine==
The [[M18A1 Claymore]] was added in the September 13, 2016 patch 4.2 for attacking operators.
[[File:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine]]
[[File:RSS M18A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Back of the Claymore in the loadoout screen, note the warnings.]]
[[File:RSS M18A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|And a triple laser beam trigger device is glued on the enemy-facing side. The lasers terminate at about 1 meter, limiting the range of the Claymore.]]
[[File:RSS M18A1-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Claymore in-game.]]

=Other=
==PP-19 Bizon==
A [[PP-19 Bizon]] is seen in the map "Clubhouse", in the basement, though it isn't available for use in-game.
[[File:Bizon1.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|PP-19 Bizon-1 - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[File:Rainbowsix 2016-05-10 02-58-47.jpg||thumb|none|600px]]

==AK-107==
In the introductory video for the Spetsnaz operator Fuze, terrorists are shown wielding what appears to be [[AK-107]] rifles.
[[File:Ak107-2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AK-107 with experimental 60-round magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
[[File:RSS AK107.jpg||thumb|none|600px|Note the distinctive gas tube containing the counter-balance recoil system and the scope rail.]]
[[File:RSS AK107-1.jpg||thumb|none|600px]]

==Mk 19 Grenade Launcher==
GSG-9 operative Jäger tests his trademark active defense system against a remote [[Mk 19 Grenade Launcher]] firing a training 40mm round in his introduction video.
[[File:US Mk. 19 40mm grenade machine-gun.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Mk 19 grenade launcher in vehicle mounting - 40x53mm]]
[[File:RSS Mk19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mark-19 with a mounted camera scope rises out of a bunker. Note the blue rounds, which usually signify dummy ammunition.]]
[[File:RSS Mk19-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The business end of the mean machine.]]

==RPG-7==
An [[RPG-7]] is seen in the map "Clubhouse", in the basement.
[[File:Rpg-7.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|RPG-7 with PG-7VM rocket and PGO-7 scope - 40mm]]
[[File:Rainbowsix 2016-05-10 02-58-47.jpg||thumb|none|600px]]

{{Tom Clancy Series}}
[[Category: Video Game]]
[[Category: Tom Clancy]]
[[Category: First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category: Crime]]

Talk:Rainbow Six Siege

2018-08-20T15:56:06Z

P226: /* Operation Grim Sky */

Talk:Rainbow Six Siege

2018-08-20T15:55:43Z

P226: /* Operation Grim Sky */

==Already...==
It seem that the M1911 Variant has an incorrect 10 rounds in a 8 rounds magazine. There is IN FACT a 10 rounds magazine for M1911s but it seem it's not in this one --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]
[[File:10roundsm1911.jpg|thumb|600px|none|10 Rounds magazine .45 ACP for M1911 and Variants]]

== New footage ==

Numerous new features can be seen clearly here: the MP5 ingame is referred to as the MP5F and has an unusual crooked stock (12:17), there is a USP for the terrorists, various attachments for the G36C including an oddly-reticuled ACOG scope, and the identification (at least ingame) of the 1911 as the M45 MEUSOC. At this stage it would appear that the MP5 has replaced the Mac-10 as the terrorists' weapon of choice. [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN9CMGuyGvQ

== Alpha weapons ==

Someone leaked some footage of the Alpha so we can't "use" it, but it showed a FAMAS G2, P90, UMP, Mossberg 591A1, P226, HK33A2, S&W M586, FNP-9, and a stand-alone M320

There's also a MAC-11. Don't know if that's the same gun as what's labeled as the MAC-10.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:I am still waiting for the alpha key... Although I did answer that I don't play CoD, BF, nor Titanfall so maybe they won't even send the key... :( - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 03:32, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
::I watched this trailer on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWgOSimxoPs YouTube] and I screencapped an the UMP, FAMAS F1 and an assault rifle I didn't recognize. At first I thought it was an HK416 but then I noticed it has a charging handle on the right side of the gun. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:44, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6Siege assault rifle 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown assault rifle]]
[[File:R6Siege Famas.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS F1]]
[[File:R6Siege UMP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Untextured UMP]]
They released a bunch of official footage today. FMG9, 5-7 USG, HK417, SA80 with DD rails, SG 556 XI, Remington R4. I think a Glock was briefly shown in a loadout window. FAMAS G2 is an F1 despite the name.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:Here's a screencap from the official site, the same picture also appears in the end of some videos, and I think there's MPX with a suppressor as in the MPX-SD variant, but the weapon itself is about the same length as the basic variant. Perhaps we see it in a future video. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:03, 31 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6siege mpx.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Unidentified firearms ==

I'm entirely certain that the unidentified ''VSN'' is a ''Vityaz-SN'', [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/OSN_Saturn_special_purpose_unit_%28506-20%29.jpg a 9mm Parabellum submachine gun] in use with the Russian special units that belong to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, MVD. It is also used by some specialized police detachments, such as [http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/Interpolitex-2013/i-tF82bS7/0/O/Interpolitex2013part01-17.jpg Grom] of the Federal Drug Control Service.

The unidentified machine gun with a canted ammo box is actually a relatively well represented (as of late) ''PKP'' general purpose machine gun in an [http://i.imgur.com/gnAgMhX.jpg updated bullpup kit] by the Russian company Zenit. It was supposed to be used by special forces in close quarter urban combat apparently, but it didn't quite catch on. Still the initial batch was retained and could see limited action. Interestingly enough, Zenit is the same company that made the rail system and stock used by the Vityaz-SN. Ultimately, [http://www.zenitco.ru/files/pulemet2_1.jpg Zenit dropped the exotic bullpup kit] and went for something more conventional. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 10:06, 30 July 2015 (EDT)

: Thanks, those all seem correct. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== The M590A1 ==
I'm pretty sure that the M590A1 is the Blackwater variant as it has a picatinny rail on the receiver and it appears that the ghost ring is part of the rail. The inventory image also shows that it has the "Speed Feed" stock and the tri-rail handguard; both standard on the Blackwater variant. [[User:Majorcamo|Majorcamo]] ([[User talk:Majorcamo|talk]]) 22:21, 15 September 2015 (EDT)

== Vepr-12? ==

Are we absolutely certain that's a Molot Vepr and not actually a Saiga? It's missing the elongated magazine well typical of the Vepr. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 17:39, 30 November 2015 (EST)

== Flash-hiders ==

Am I the only the one noticed that every gun that has a flash-hider, sans the P90, has an A2 flash-hider? [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 00:15, 1 December 2015 (EST)

== Weapons actually used ==

How many of the weapons in this game are actually used by special forces (of whatever they are called) in real life? I've seen some GIGN guys use revolvers and SAS have used the MP5, but the L85, AK12 etc seems rather out of place.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 05:29, 1 December 2015 (EST)
:The L85 and AK12 fit the SAS and Spetsnaz factions respectively.....given said weapons origins. They may not be standard issue but it's safe to assume that high tier counterterrorist units have access to almost any weapon they want.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 13:04, 1 December 2015 (EST)
::The SAS never use L85s, they use L119A1s (Colt Canada C8 SFW, basically M4A1s), The Spetsnaz using AK-12s in not outlandish, as the AK-12 is going through field-trials now. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 18:46, 1 December 2015 (EST)

==MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST==
It seems the "MAC-11" is a MPA10SST [[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]] ([[User talk:James Dalcan|talk]]) 05:25, 4 December 2015 (EST)
[[File:MPA10SST.jpeg|thumb|none|400px|MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST]]

== Noticed something on the wall of the armory in Club House ==

[[File:Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® Siege_20160110214429.jpeg|400px|thumb]]
Spotted a Bizon, an RPG-7 and a very low resolution model of what it seems to me an AK-103 with wood furniture similar to the one in Far Cry 3^^

--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 15:45, 10 January 2016 (EST)DH20
:Nice picture, contains a lot of words.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:40, 10 January 2016 (EST)

Damn, sorry Its my first time posting in here, i was trying to get a screencap off my PS4 with the share button but couldn't do it, it seems :( but trust me i know what i saw AK.
--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 16:49, 10 January 2016 (EST)DH20
:Those are some shitty models, looks like the game is running on ultra low or something.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:58, 11 January 2016 (EST)

== P12/USP Tactical ==

Game says it's chambered in .45ACP, however weapon capacity is 15+1. Should it be 9mm, not .45ACP which has capacity of 10 or 12 in a mag? --[[User:-Sentinel-|-Sentinel-]] ([[User talk:-Sentinel-|talk]]) 15:29, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:I'd put "though it says it's a .45 it incorrectly holds 15+1 like a 9mm USP instead of 12+1 like a real USP45." [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 23:03, 7 February 2016 (EST)

== Leaked operator with SIG MPX ==
[[File:rainbow6siegeleakedoperator.jpg|500px|thumb]]
A friend linked me a leaked picture of an upcoming operator, supposedly a Navy SEAL, that seems to be wielding a [[SIG-Sauer MPX]] --[[User:Jaffaceksi|Jaffaceksi]] ([[User talk:Jaffaceksi|talk]]) 18:50, 13 February 2016 (EST)

==Browning Hi-Power==
The in game Hi-Power has an odd serrations on the slide, one side are all tight like in the ones pictured on the Hi-Power page, and the other side has them thicker and widely spaced similar to the one seen in [[Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops_2#Browning_Hi-Power|Call of Duty: Black Ops II]], is this an error, or is there a newer version that is like this? The only Hi-Power I've ever used was my Grandfathers old service piece from the 50's, and that one didn't have the variation between sides.--[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 12:59, 5 March 2016 (EST)

== Delta gun ==

From one of the Idris vids

http://s23.postimg.org/bg73fjsmj/ddd.png

Has an Army of Two style shield on the gun and the rail cover extends past the end of the barrel.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

==The MPX doesn't look right to me==
Look at the MPX's magazine well, it looks much too big for its round, and looks like it doesn't seat properly. By the way, is the article going to be updated soon to add the Operation: Dust Line weapons?

[http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/rainbowsix/images/6/68/R6S-mpx.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160511193901 Rainbow Six Siege MPX] [[User:CloversCorner|CloversCorner]] ([[User talk:CloversCorner|talk]]) 15:57, 11 May 2016 (EDT)
:Looks more like the magazine is misporportioned, wait until the final release. I'm kinda bummed that the new characters have super trope-y weapons like the Deagle and SPAS-12.....[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:01, 11 May 2016 (EDT)
::I'm more than bummed by the Desert Eagle. Rainbow Six Siege is supposed to be a realistic squad based game inspired by real units and the weapons and equipment they use. And then they stick a frigging Desert Eagle as a Navy SEAL sidearm. Pandering to the COD crowd. I'm rather pissed off that they did that. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 05:11, 12 May 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I just don't get it. I mean, the SCAR and the MK. 11 make sense, the MPX is okay with me, and the SPAS-12, well, it's not the most practical thing in the world, but it's not necessarily bad (although, with the 6+1 capacity, they may as well have used the compact model to fit in with the CQB theme). Still, seriously? A Desert Eagle? I mean, if you wanted a big, imposing handgun, you could go with a Mk. 23, which is infinitely more practical than the DE (though, granted, that's not exactly saying much), has been in previous R6 games, and was actually meant for the US military. Seriously, it's just downright illogical. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:19, 2 September 2016 (EDT)
::Looks like the magazine size is off. Took this myself. http://www.imfdb.org/images/4/4d/SIEGE_MPX.jpeg [[User:Zombiedrd|Zombiedrd]] ([[User talk:Zombiedrd|talk]]) 10:58, 12 May 2016 (EDT)

:::The mag-well's a bit bigger than it should be, the mags are a bit too short, and they are placed in the mag-well a bit too forward instead of in the center. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 12:56, 25 May 2016 (EDT)

== C8 barrel length ==

Not sure what to make of it, as it falls in between the SFW and CQB models. Looks to 11.5in..?
[[File:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-c8sfw-001.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[File:ColtCanada C8CQB.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
:It doesn't help that like all the assault rifles in the game, it has an A2 birdcage flash hider. When in doubt, I say it's closer to the CQB do to the short barrel, even if it's a little longer. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 12:48, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
::11.5" barrel would make it a Colt 933. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:59, 1 September 2016 (EDT)

== Other unusable wall weapons in Kafe Dostoyevsky ==

[[Image:R6SKafe.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Potato-quality because Xbone.]]
Presumably a pair of Colt SAA's, flintlock pistols, and some three barreled pepperbox revolver. These can be found in the room next to the train exhibit.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:19, 12 June 2016 (EDT)

:I'll also leave the Dust Line background image here:
:[[File:RSSKeymodAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|C-Clamp™]]
:--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:20, 24 June 2016 (EDT)

On the subject of unusable guns in menu screens, some menus include M6290 flashbangs. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 09:12, 1 September 2016 (EDT)
:And, for that matter, there's a Jericho 941 on the logo of Operation <s>No Refunds</s> Health. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 12:43, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

::[[File:RSS Villaweapons.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]] Also, there's a Vetterli and some simple looking rifle in the armory of the Villa level.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:38, 1 July 2018 (EDT)

== New guns in Skull Rain ==

Ok, so we are getting a Beretta M12, Spas-15 for the defender operator Caveira, while the offensive gets a M249, DSA SA58 and for sidearm there is a Beretta 92 series pistol (not sure on the model yet, probably a Taurus PT)

What are your thoughts? Personally i think we have enough of these shotgun-wielding gals but that's just me°-°
:It's nice to see a SPAS-15 pop up, but hopefully it isn't a copy-paste of Valkyrie/Frost's shotguns. I was kinda hoping one of them would shootdodge like Max Payne lol.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:09, 28 July 2016 (EDT)
:The M249 seems to fire at an unrealistically slow 690 RPM (probably lowered for balance reasons). Caveira's PT92 gets a super cool suppressor sleeve and apparently fires "non-lethal" ammo (despite her visibly killing someone during the gameplay demo...).

== Spotted a new gun ==

There is a S&W M&P in one of the posters seen in oregon, in the first set of beds on the dormitory, next to the west window, i'd love to upload the picture but i don't have the necessary means to do it :( Sorry.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 15:41, 31 August 2016 (EDT)

== Next DLC ==

So... the next DLC will consist of Japanese operators. I've heard speculation of a P229 or P220, a Benelli Supernova, a Howa Type 89, and a Mineba PM9. I'd also expect a Howa Type 64, and maybe an AR-18. Thoughts? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:23, 13 November 2016 (EST)
:It's been confirmed as the Supernova for both operators, the Type 89 for Hibana, and a MP5SD4 for Echo. Sidearms are the P229 and PM-9.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:59, 13 November 2016 (EST)

== SVU question ==

I played this for the free weekend that just concluded, and when I played the "Cold Zero" situation I saw no such red tint through the SVU's magnifier as the section for that gun mentions. I'm assuming it was removed at some point, given one of our screenshots shows it, and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_mhlFXZO98 this video] from just after release still has it, but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLYNI_r3Ik this one] from a month ago lacks it. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 18:36, 13 November 2016 (EST)
:It looks like it is still there, just toned down a bit (similar to in the initial release, your vision went very greyscale at low health).--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:32, 13 November 2016 (EST)

==Spanish Operators==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTke6uUPvNw

Looks like a Kriss Vector, Fabarm STF 12, Fabarm STF 12 Short, POF PSG, and Diemaco C7E. Can't tell if that USP is a new Compact model.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:are you sure it is a POF PSG and not an UDP-9? You can tell by the trigger guard but then again the PSG is in Ghost Recon: Wildlands and there it looks like a complete different model than the one portrayed in Siege.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 10:27, 6 February 2017 (EST)
::Looks like you're right. It has that tiny hole running through the boltcatch on the left, and the icon has that distinct strip just above the magwell.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
Somebody mentioned Diemaco C7 as NLD on reddit. Probably Colt Canada C7NLD. --[[User:-Sentinel-|-Sentinel-]] ([[User talk:-Sentinel-|talk]]) 11:19, 7 February 2017 (EST)
:Undoubtedly.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 12:28, 7 February 2017 (EST)

==Question==

Why this game stopped having updates?--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 11:32, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
:Except it's still being updated and current operation is [https://rainbow6.ubisoft.com/siege/en-us/news/152-289775-16/year-2-season-2-operation-health Operation Health]. It was updated in June 7, 2017 to 2.2.1 and next patch 2.2.2 is scheduled to sometime in July 2017. The point is: this operation doesn't bring any content updates like operators, weapons or maps (it will introduce Alpha Packs though aka lootboxes) and instead focuses on matchmaking and bug fixes. For new ops and maps you need to wait for August (if not September). --[[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 12:30, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

Thank you Terramax. It just looked weird that no Operations were made in almost 1 year.I dont own the game so I cant knew it.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 13:12, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

== Grzmot mines ID ==

Them look like a Polish WW2 mines, which I dont remember the names, any idea?
--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:47, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

== White Noise ==

Damn, we're going to need some new weapon images. They really made some odd picks- I don't even know what the SMG-2 ''is'', although I think it's based on an Uzi Pro pistol. On a different note, what do you guys think about these new operators? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:02, 20 November 2017 (EST)
:The "SMG-12" seems to be some sorta amalgamation of a Masterpiece Arms MAC variant with the folding stock of a Mini Uzi. The K1A is listed in game as an SMG, despite very clearly being a carbine (probably due to Daewoo referring to it as such), and the "M762" is more than likely a full length Beryl 7.62 with a ''disgusting'' thumbhole stock. Interestingly enough, it uses Western optics instead of Ruskie ones, which makes me question why they even gave her an AK to begin with. And, of course, that stupid airsoft gun from Wildlands has reared its head again. Thanks Canada. As for the ops themselves, I'm gonna go ahead and say real quick that Zofia is stupidly powerful. She gets all the utility of Ash, and she can revive herself. Why? Great question. But either way she's definitely gonna see a lot of combat time by high level teams. Vigil is certainly a fun choice, as he's especially good against teams who are on their drones a lot, and I really love his design in general. And then we have Dokkaebi who, while definitely being a very strange operator in nature, could be a cheeky pick of casual matches, like Caveira. Though she is unfortunately saddled with a DMR and shotgun, so, as with Echo, you're probably gonna be using her machine pistols more than her primaries. --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 17:48, 20 November 2017 (EDT)

Western optics on Polish-made rifle made after the '90s made sense, Patfast. Poland is on NATO side now.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 10:11, 29 November 2017 (EST)

::The Beryl stock looks like a Hera Arms CQR, despite that not being normally intended for AK-type rifles. I don't quite get why they gave Zofia that Krytac gun, or why they gave the South Koreans a tactical O/U. I mean, sure, asset recycling is a factor, but they could've given her a dozen other machine guns that they already had models for (the KAC LMG, the HK121, etc), or maybe created a more appropriate model, like a UKM-2000 (considering that she is a Pole). And as for the shotgun, they could've used a KSG (which that group apparently actually uses), or even a proper South Korean shotgun, the USAS-12 (as hard as that would be to balance). Generally speaking, they made some odd choices with the weapons here. I do think that Zofia's gadget is going to be a force to be reckoned with, considering the quick breaching potential of the impact grenades (and the infuriation potential of the concussion grenades), but I don't think that the self-revive thing is going to be that big of a deal. I mean, she gets up with ''one'' hitpoint. Someone breathes on her too hard and she'll be down for the count. I frankly just think that they included that for the sake of one-in-a-million dramatic clutches that people pull off on Twitch streams (y'know, 1 HP and a dream), but I might be proven wrong. All we can do is wait and see. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 19:01, 20 November 2017 (EST)
:::I was hoping to see the whole Daewoo family - K7 SMG, K3 SAW and K5 pistol, but I guess the hipster-operators (seriously, did they hire Tumblr artists to create the characters and abilities for this season?) we got have to go with weird weapon choices. Although its cool to see the Rock Island M14, that variant never really shows up in anything. --[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:22, 20 November 2017 (EST)
::::I agree, I think this is the worst match of equipment and CTU, I don't understand the reasoning behind choosing weapons for CTU. You don't even need to hire active/former CTU member/veteran for that kind of info (MoHW was great though), even Wikipedia has information about it mostly with sources. To me it looks like "k2,k1,k7 - they're another c8-sfw,c7nld,416c,sr25" and I hope it's not the case. Maybe I'm glad I'm not getting Israel CTU for now, I don't want them to receive the same treatment as GROM (writing-wise) and them having no Galil, ACE or MTAR. Like IMFDB, I'm looking forward for more weapon representation in games. Also, [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] thank you for rearranging and formatting new weapons properly. I was almost triggered how Ubisoft gave [[AK-12]] to Polish operator first time I saw it in TTS, but then I noticed the fixed rear sight and, just like [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] said, it's HERA Arms CQR stock with some "aftermarket dust cover?" and handguards. And... it's almost certain their design team visited [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/30/hera-arms-cqr-stock-ak-rifle/ this page] for "inspiration" for "M762" (and not actual "Beryl M762" from Google Search or FB page). [[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 06:06, 21 November 2017 (EST)

== "Beryl M762" ==

Here's material for you guys who want to identify or try to explain what this gun actually is (like how "C8-SFW" and "C7E" were explained previously to be other guns completely or heavily modified). First: [http://fabrykabroni.pl/en/produkty/karabiny/beryl-m-7-62/ here's official Beryl M762] from FABRYKA BRONI "ŁUCZNIK" RADOM. Second: [https://www.flickr.com/photos/stickgunner/21074884113/ here's original non-photoshopped image] by Stickman. The handguard is Midwest Industries Extended Handguard and magazine is US PALM (not depicted in-game anyway). And third one is the "inspiration" image: [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/30/hera-arms-cqr-stock-ak-rifle/ here's the same image, but photoshopped with HERA Arms CQR stock] by TFB blog. The in-game model is probably "inspired" by the third one with the addition of custom railed dust cover (can't identify it properly, it still resembles new production AK-12/AK-15 one, but maybe not) and new in-game vertical grip model. [[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 15:47, 7 December 2017 (EST)
:I personally see it as an M762 in name only. I'm gonna give a physical description and mention the inspirations but not directly call it a Beryl M762.--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 07:57, 22 February 2018 (EST)

== Looks like p226 and p229 both have DA only triggers in the game. ==

Their hammers are uncocked not like other pistols, is it a mistake or intended?

== Apparently they changed USP40 to a DAO version in TTS ==

Does DAO USP Compact exist?

== GSG-9 Shotgun ==

Hey guys, as some of you noticed, I changed the info for the GSG-9 shotgun, because I found out that it is actually based off of the G&P M870 RAS with some wonky rail attachments. I am glad to see that people have worded it better, as I word things in the most stupidest way possible.

Best Regards,
[[User:Burga|Burga]] ([[User talk:Burga|talk]]) 17:27, 16 March 2018 (EDT)

== SASG-12 ==
Looks like the "SASG-12" shotgun is based on the customized Saigas by the Hatcher Gun Company.

[https://www.hatchergun.com/saiga_custom.htm] Should I mention it? [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 07:56, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
:You should mention it if there's nothing closer out there. The in-game model seems to still have some differences with these custom Saigas. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 08:15, 27 April 2018 (EDT)

== Trivia ==

[https://i.redd.it/a8z3c7qp8sk01.jpg Finka's] early concept art shows her holding an [[A-91]]. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 01:19, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

:That reminds me that I have these things from Operation Outbreak floating around still-
:[[file:R6S G36art.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:[[file:R6S Mk18ishart.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:[[file:R6S PPSh.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:26, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/814f6x/the_abandonment_of_realism_a_long_post_on/ This reddit rant] had some extra trivia info on some stuff around the game, like the laser sight models and Glaz's new thermal imager. I don't want to talk about their opinions, but I do find some of the details they pointed out interesting.

I also found via artstation that all weapons have tactical lights in Outbreak mode, and one of the artists had to [https://www.artstation.com/artwork/kJBAl make up a flashlight model] for some pistols that lack attachment points of any kind. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 01:19, 9 May 2018 (EDT)

:Wow, does that guy have a stick up his ass. Frankly, I'd kill for the amount of realism Siege has in Ghost Recon Wildlands. Seriously, Ubi, just point to your preferred sacrifice. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:58, 9 May 2018 (EDT)

== 7.62x54mmR Suppressor ==

Anyone know if there's a real equivalent of this?
[[File:RSS 7.62x54mmR suppessor.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:28, 6 August 2018 (EDT)
It reminds me about the PBS-4. But in-game suppressor isn't fully identical to it so maybe I'm wrong. [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 01:59, 10 August 2018 (EDT)

== Operation Grim Sky ==

Clash has a B&T MP9 and a CZ P10C (first appearance in anything?!). Maverick has an "M4" in 5.56, another AR-15 but in .50 Beowulf and a 1911 Tacops (SIG?). I like these additions and I'm glad since I was expecting recycled guns like in Chimera. ---P226 17:47, 19 August 2018 (EDT)
:I wonder if Maverick will be a true ''maverick'' and use the bolt releases on his ARs.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:58, 19 August 2018 (EDT)
The TTS is starting today I believe, so I'll post some pics and can describe full reload animations (he'll probably just rack the charging handle like the rest of them...)---P226 11:55, 20 August 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Rainbow Six Siege

2018-08-19T21:48:26Z

P226: /* Operation Grim Sky */

Talk:Rainbow Six Siege

2018-08-19T21:48:01Z

P226: /* Operation Grim Sky */

==Already...==
It seem that the M1911 Variant has an incorrect 10 rounds in a 8 rounds magazine. There is IN FACT a 10 rounds magazine for M1911s but it seem it's not in this one --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]
[[File:10roundsm1911.jpg|thumb|600px|none|10 Rounds magazine .45 ACP for M1911 and Variants]]

== New footage ==

Numerous new features can be seen clearly here: the MP5 ingame is referred to as the MP5F and has an unusual crooked stock (12:17), there is a USP for the terrorists, various attachments for the G36C including an oddly-reticuled ACOG scope, and the identification (at least ingame) of the 1911 as the M45 MEUSOC. At this stage it would appear that the MP5 has replaced the Mac-10 as the terrorists' weapon of choice. [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN9CMGuyGvQ

== Alpha weapons ==

Someone leaked some footage of the Alpha so we can't "use" it, but it showed a FAMAS G2, P90, UMP, Mossberg 591A1, P226, HK33A2, S&W M586, FNP-9, and a stand-alone M320

There's also a MAC-11. Don't know if that's the same gun as what's labeled as the MAC-10.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:I am still waiting for the alpha key... Although I did answer that I don't play CoD, BF, nor Titanfall so maybe they won't even send the key... :( - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 03:32, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
::I watched this trailer on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWgOSimxoPs YouTube] and I screencapped an the UMP, FAMAS F1 and an assault rifle I didn't recognize. At first I thought it was an HK416 but then I noticed it has a charging handle on the right side of the gun. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:44, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6Siege assault rifle 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown assault rifle]]
[[File:R6Siege Famas.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS F1]]
[[File:R6Siege UMP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Untextured UMP]]
They released a bunch of official footage today. FMG9, 5-7 USG, HK417, SA80 with DD rails, SG 556 XI, Remington R4. I think a Glock was briefly shown in a loadout window. FAMAS G2 is an F1 despite the name.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:Here's a screencap from the official site, the same picture also appears in the end of some videos, and I think there's MPX with a suppressor as in the MPX-SD variant, but the weapon itself is about the same length as the basic variant. Perhaps we see it in a future video. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:03, 31 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6siege mpx.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Unidentified firearms ==

I'm entirely certain that the unidentified ''VSN'' is a ''Vityaz-SN'', [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/OSN_Saturn_special_purpose_unit_%28506-20%29.jpg a 9mm Parabellum submachine gun] in use with the Russian special units that belong to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, MVD. It is also used by some specialized police detachments, such as [http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/Interpolitex-2013/i-tF82bS7/0/O/Interpolitex2013part01-17.jpg Grom] of the Federal Drug Control Service.

The unidentified machine gun with a canted ammo box is actually a relatively well represented (as of late) ''PKP'' general purpose machine gun in an [http://i.imgur.com/gnAgMhX.jpg updated bullpup kit] by the Russian company Zenit. It was supposed to be used by special forces in close quarter urban combat apparently, but it didn't quite catch on. Still the initial batch was retained and could see limited action. Interestingly enough, Zenit is the same company that made the rail system and stock used by the Vityaz-SN. Ultimately, [http://www.zenitco.ru/files/pulemet2_1.jpg Zenit dropped the exotic bullpup kit] and went for something more conventional. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 10:06, 30 July 2015 (EDT)

: Thanks, those all seem correct. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== The M590A1 ==
I'm pretty sure that the M590A1 is the Blackwater variant as it has a picatinny rail on the receiver and it appears that the ghost ring is part of the rail. The inventory image also shows that it has the "Speed Feed" stock and the tri-rail handguard; both standard on the Blackwater variant. [[User:Majorcamo|Majorcamo]] ([[User talk:Majorcamo|talk]]) 22:21, 15 September 2015 (EDT)

== Vepr-12? ==

Are we absolutely certain that's a Molot Vepr and not actually a Saiga? It's missing the elongated magazine well typical of the Vepr. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 17:39, 30 November 2015 (EST)

== Flash-hiders ==

Am I the only the one noticed that every gun that has a flash-hider, sans the P90, has an A2 flash-hider? [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 00:15, 1 December 2015 (EST)

== Weapons actually used ==

How many of the weapons in this game are actually used by special forces (of whatever they are called) in real life? I've seen some GIGN guys use revolvers and SAS have used the MP5, but the L85, AK12 etc seems rather out of place.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 05:29, 1 December 2015 (EST)
:The L85 and AK12 fit the SAS and Spetsnaz factions respectively.....given said weapons origins. They may not be standard issue but it's safe to assume that high tier counterterrorist units have access to almost any weapon they want.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 13:04, 1 December 2015 (EST)
::The SAS never use L85s, they use L119A1s (Colt Canada C8 SFW, basically M4A1s), The Spetsnaz using AK-12s in not outlandish, as the AK-12 is going through field-trials now. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 18:46, 1 December 2015 (EST)

==MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST==
It seems the "MAC-11" is a MPA10SST [[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]] ([[User talk:James Dalcan|talk]]) 05:25, 4 December 2015 (EST)
[[File:MPA10SST.jpeg|thumb|none|400px|MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST]]

== Noticed something on the wall of the armory in Club House ==

[[File:Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® Siege_20160110214429.jpeg|400px|thumb]]
Spotted a Bizon, an RPG-7 and a very low resolution model of what it seems to me an AK-103 with wood furniture similar to the one in Far Cry 3^^

--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 15:45, 10 January 2016 (EST)DH20
:Nice picture, contains a lot of words.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:40, 10 January 2016 (EST)

Damn, sorry Its my first time posting in here, i was trying to get a screencap off my PS4 with the share button but couldn't do it, it seems :( but trust me i know what i saw AK.
--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 16:49, 10 January 2016 (EST)DH20
:Those are some shitty models, looks like the game is running on ultra low or something.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:58, 11 January 2016 (EST)

== P12/USP Tactical ==

Game says it's chambered in .45ACP, however weapon capacity is 15+1. Should it be 9mm, not .45ACP which has capacity of 10 or 12 in a mag? --[[User:-Sentinel-|-Sentinel-]] ([[User talk:-Sentinel-|talk]]) 15:29, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:I'd put "though it says it's a .45 it incorrectly holds 15+1 like a 9mm USP instead of 12+1 like a real USP45." [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 23:03, 7 February 2016 (EST)

== Leaked operator with SIG MPX ==
[[File:rainbow6siegeleakedoperator.jpg|500px|thumb]]
A friend linked me a leaked picture of an upcoming operator, supposedly a Navy SEAL, that seems to be wielding a [[SIG-Sauer MPX]] --[[User:Jaffaceksi|Jaffaceksi]] ([[User talk:Jaffaceksi|talk]]) 18:50, 13 February 2016 (EST)

==Browning Hi-Power==
The in game Hi-Power has an odd serrations on the slide, one side are all tight like in the ones pictured on the Hi-Power page, and the other side has them thicker and widely spaced similar to the one seen in [[Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops_2#Browning_Hi-Power|Call of Duty: Black Ops II]], is this an error, or is there a newer version that is like this? The only Hi-Power I've ever used was my Grandfathers old service piece from the 50's, and that one didn't have the variation between sides.--[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 12:59, 5 March 2016 (EST)

== Delta gun ==

From one of the Idris vids

http://s23.postimg.org/bg73fjsmj/ddd.png

Has an Army of Two style shield on the gun and the rail cover extends past the end of the barrel.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

==The MPX doesn't look right to me==
Look at the MPX's magazine well, it looks much too big for its round, and looks like it doesn't seat properly. By the way, is the article going to be updated soon to add the Operation: Dust Line weapons?

[http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/rainbowsix/images/6/68/R6S-mpx.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160511193901 Rainbow Six Siege MPX] [[User:CloversCorner|CloversCorner]] ([[User talk:CloversCorner|talk]]) 15:57, 11 May 2016 (EDT)
:Looks more like the magazine is misporportioned, wait until the final release. I'm kinda bummed that the new characters have super trope-y weapons like the Deagle and SPAS-12.....[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:01, 11 May 2016 (EDT)
::I'm more than bummed by the Desert Eagle. Rainbow Six Siege is supposed to be a realistic squad based game inspired by real units and the weapons and equipment they use. And then they stick a frigging Desert Eagle as a Navy SEAL sidearm. Pandering to the COD crowd. I'm rather pissed off that they did that. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 05:11, 12 May 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I just don't get it. I mean, the SCAR and the MK. 11 make sense, the MPX is okay with me, and the SPAS-12, well, it's not the most practical thing in the world, but it's not necessarily bad (although, with the 6+1 capacity, they may as well have used the compact model to fit in with the CQB theme). Still, seriously? A Desert Eagle? I mean, if you wanted a big, imposing handgun, you could go with a Mk. 23, which is infinitely more practical than the DE (though, granted, that's not exactly saying much), has been in previous R6 games, and was actually meant for the US military. Seriously, it's just downright illogical. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:19, 2 September 2016 (EDT)
::Looks like the magazine size is off. Took this myself. http://www.imfdb.org/images/4/4d/SIEGE_MPX.jpeg [[User:Zombiedrd|Zombiedrd]] ([[User talk:Zombiedrd|talk]]) 10:58, 12 May 2016 (EDT)

:::The mag-well's a bit bigger than it should be, the mags are a bit too short, and they are placed in the mag-well a bit too forward instead of in the center. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 12:56, 25 May 2016 (EDT)

== C8 barrel length ==

Not sure what to make of it, as it falls in between the SFW and CQB models. Looks to 11.5in..?
[[File:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-c8sfw-001.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[File:ColtCanada C8CQB.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
:It doesn't help that like all the assault rifles in the game, it has an A2 birdcage flash hider. When in doubt, I say it's closer to the CQB do to the short barrel, even if it's a little longer. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 12:48, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
::11.5" barrel would make it a Colt 933. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:59, 1 September 2016 (EDT)

== Other unusable wall weapons in Kafe Dostoyevsky ==

[[Image:R6SKafe.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Potato-quality because Xbone.]]
Presumably a pair of Colt SAA's, flintlock pistols, and some three barreled pepperbox revolver. These can be found in the room next to the train exhibit.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:19, 12 June 2016 (EDT)

:I'll also leave the Dust Line background image here:
:[[File:RSSKeymodAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|C-Clamp™]]
:--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:20, 24 June 2016 (EDT)

On the subject of unusable guns in menu screens, some menus include M6290 flashbangs. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 09:12, 1 September 2016 (EDT)
:And, for that matter, there's a Jericho 941 on the logo of Operation <s>No Refunds</s> Health. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 12:43, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

::[[File:RSS Villaweapons.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]] Also, there's a Vetterli and some simple looking rifle in the armory of the Villa level.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:38, 1 July 2018 (EDT)

== New guns in Skull Rain ==

Ok, so we are getting a Beretta M12, Spas-15 for the defender operator Caveira, while the offensive gets a M249, DSA SA58 and for sidearm there is a Beretta 92 series pistol (not sure on the model yet, probably a Taurus PT)

What are your thoughts? Personally i think we have enough of these shotgun-wielding gals but that's just me°-°
:It's nice to see a SPAS-15 pop up, but hopefully it isn't a copy-paste of Valkyrie/Frost's shotguns. I was kinda hoping one of them would shootdodge like Max Payne lol.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:09, 28 July 2016 (EDT)
:The M249 seems to fire at an unrealistically slow 690 RPM (probably lowered for balance reasons). Caveira's PT92 gets a super cool suppressor sleeve and apparently fires "non-lethal" ammo (despite her visibly killing someone during the gameplay demo...).

== Spotted a new gun ==

There is a S&W M&P in one of the posters seen in oregon, in the first set of beds on the dormitory, next to the west window, i'd love to upload the picture but i don't have the necessary means to do it :( Sorry.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 15:41, 31 August 2016 (EDT)

== Next DLC ==

So... the next DLC will consist of Japanese operators. I've heard speculation of a P229 or P220, a Benelli Supernova, a Howa Type 89, and a Mineba PM9. I'd also expect a Howa Type 64, and maybe an AR-18. Thoughts? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:23, 13 November 2016 (EST)
:It's been confirmed as the Supernova for both operators, the Type 89 for Hibana, and a MP5SD4 for Echo. Sidearms are the P229 and PM-9.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:59, 13 November 2016 (EST)

== SVU question ==

I played this for the free weekend that just concluded, and when I played the "Cold Zero" situation I saw no such red tint through the SVU's magnifier as the section for that gun mentions. I'm assuming it was removed at some point, given one of our screenshots shows it, and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_mhlFXZO98 this video] from just after release still has it, but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLYNI_r3Ik this one] from a month ago lacks it. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 18:36, 13 November 2016 (EST)
:It looks like it is still there, just toned down a bit (similar to in the initial release, your vision went very greyscale at low health).--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:32, 13 November 2016 (EST)

==Spanish Operators==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTke6uUPvNw

Looks like a Kriss Vector, Fabarm STF 12, Fabarm STF 12 Short, POF PSG, and Diemaco C7E. Can't tell if that USP is a new Compact model.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:are you sure it is a POF PSG and not an UDP-9? You can tell by the trigger guard but then again the PSG is in Ghost Recon: Wildlands and there it looks like a complete different model than the one portrayed in Siege.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 10:27, 6 February 2017 (EST)
::Looks like you're right. It has that tiny hole running through the boltcatch on the left, and the icon has that distinct strip just above the magwell.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
Somebody mentioned Diemaco C7 as NLD on reddit. Probably Colt Canada C7NLD. --[[User:-Sentinel-|-Sentinel-]] ([[User talk:-Sentinel-|talk]]) 11:19, 7 February 2017 (EST)
:Undoubtedly.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 12:28, 7 February 2017 (EST)

==Question==

Why this game stopped having updates?--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 11:32, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
:Except it's still being updated and current operation is [https://rainbow6.ubisoft.com/siege/en-us/news/152-289775-16/year-2-season-2-operation-health Operation Health]. It was updated in June 7, 2017 to 2.2.1 and next patch 2.2.2 is scheduled to sometime in July 2017. The point is: this operation doesn't bring any content updates like operators, weapons or maps (it will introduce Alpha Packs though aka lootboxes) and instead focuses on matchmaking and bug fixes. For new ops and maps you need to wait for August (if not September). --[[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 12:30, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

Thank you Terramax. It just looked weird that no Operations were made in almost 1 year.I dont own the game so I cant knew it.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 13:12, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

== Grzmot mines ID ==

Them look like a Polish WW2 mines, which I dont remember the names, any idea?
--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:47, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

== White Noise ==

Damn, we're going to need some new weapon images. They really made some odd picks- I don't even know what the SMG-2 ''is'', although I think it's based on an Uzi Pro pistol. On a different note, what do you guys think about these new operators? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:02, 20 November 2017 (EST)
:The "SMG-12" seems to be some sorta amalgamation of a Masterpiece Arms MAC variant with the folding stock of a Mini Uzi. The K1A is listed in game as an SMG, despite very clearly being a carbine (probably due to Daewoo referring to it as such), and the "M762" is more than likely a full length Beryl 7.62 with a ''disgusting'' thumbhole stock. Interestingly enough, it uses Western optics instead of Ruskie ones, which makes me question why they even gave her an AK to begin with. And, of course, that stupid airsoft gun from Wildlands has reared its head again. Thanks Canada. As for the ops themselves, I'm gonna go ahead and say real quick that Zofia is stupidly powerful. She gets all the utility of Ash, and she can revive herself. Why? Great question. But either way she's definitely gonna see a lot of combat time by high level teams. Vigil is certainly a fun choice, as he's especially good against teams who are on their drones a lot, and I really love his design in general. And then we have Dokkaebi who, while definitely being a very strange operator in nature, could be a cheeky pick of casual matches, like Caveira. Though she is unfortunately saddled with a DMR and shotgun, so, as with Echo, you're probably gonna be using her machine pistols more than her primaries. --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 17:48, 20 November 2017 (EDT)

Western optics on Polish-made rifle made after the '90s made sense, Patfast. Poland is on NATO side now.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 10:11, 29 November 2017 (EST)

::The Beryl stock looks like a Hera Arms CQR, despite that not being normally intended for AK-type rifles. I don't quite get why they gave Zofia that Krytac gun, or why they gave the South Koreans a tactical O/U. I mean, sure, asset recycling is a factor, but they could've given her a dozen other machine guns that they already had models for (the KAC LMG, the HK121, etc), or maybe created a more appropriate model, like a UKM-2000 (considering that she is a Pole). And as for the shotgun, they could've used a KSG (which that group apparently actually uses), or even a proper South Korean shotgun, the USAS-12 (as hard as that would be to balance). Generally speaking, they made some odd choices with the weapons here. I do think that Zofia's gadget is going to be a force to be reckoned with, considering the quick breaching potential of the impact grenades (and the infuriation potential of the concussion grenades), but I don't think that the self-revive thing is going to be that big of a deal. I mean, she gets up with ''one'' hitpoint. Someone breathes on her too hard and she'll be down for the count. I frankly just think that they included that for the sake of one-in-a-million dramatic clutches that people pull off on Twitch streams (y'know, 1 HP and a dream), but I might be proven wrong. All we can do is wait and see. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 19:01, 20 November 2017 (EST)
:::I was hoping to see the whole Daewoo family - K7 SMG, K3 SAW and K5 pistol, but I guess the hipster-operators (seriously, did they hire Tumblr artists to create the characters and abilities for this season?) we got have to go with weird weapon choices. Although its cool to see the Rock Island M14, that variant never really shows up in anything. --[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:22, 20 November 2017 (EST)
::::I agree, I think this is the worst match of equipment and CTU, I don't understand the reasoning behind choosing weapons for CTU. You don't even need to hire active/former CTU member/veteran for that kind of info (MoHW was great though), even Wikipedia has information about it mostly with sources. To me it looks like "k2,k1,k7 - they're another c8-sfw,c7nld,416c,sr25" and I hope it's not the case. Maybe I'm glad I'm not getting Israel CTU for now, I don't want them to receive the same treatment as GROM (writing-wise) and them having no Galil, ACE or MTAR. Like IMFDB, I'm looking forward for more weapon representation in games. Also, [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] thank you for rearranging and formatting new weapons properly. I was almost triggered how Ubisoft gave [[AK-12]] to Polish operator first time I saw it in TTS, but then I noticed the fixed rear sight and, just like [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] said, it's HERA Arms CQR stock with some "aftermarket dust cover?" and handguards. And... it's almost certain their design team visited [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/30/hera-arms-cqr-stock-ak-rifle/ this page] for "inspiration" for "M762" (and not actual "Beryl M762" from Google Search or FB page). [[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 06:06, 21 November 2017 (EST)

== "Beryl M762" ==

Here's material for you guys who want to identify or try to explain what this gun actually is (like how "C8-SFW" and "C7E" were explained previously to be other guns completely or heavily modified). First: [http://fabrykabroni.pl/en/produkty/karabiny/beryl-m-7-62/ here's official Beryl M762] from FABRYKA BRONI "ŁUCZNIK" RADOM. Second: [https://www.flickr.com/photos/stickgunner/21074884113/ here's original non-photoshopped image] by Stickman. The handguard is Midwest Industries Extended Handguard and magazine is US PALM (not depicted in-game anyway). And third one is the "inspiration" image: [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/30/hera-arms-cqr-stock-ak-rifle/ here's the same image, but photoshopped with HERA Arms CQR stock] by TFB blog. The in-game model is probably "inspired" by the third one with the addition of custom railed dust cover (can't identify it properly, it still resembles new production AK-12/AK-15 one, but maybe not) and new in-game vertical grip model. [[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 15:47, 7 December 2017 (EST)
:I personally see it as an M762 in name only. I'm gonna give a physical description and mention the inspirations but not directly call it a Beryl M762.--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 07:57, 22 February 2018 (EST)

== Looks like p226 and p229 both have DA only triggers in the game. ==

Their hammers are uncocked not like other pistols, is it a mistake or intended?

== Apparently they changed USP40 to a DAO version in TTS ==

Does DAO USP Compact exist?

== GSG-9 Shotgun ==

Hey guys, as some of you noticed, I changed the info for the GSG-9 shotgun, because I found out that it is actually based off of the G&P M870 RAS with some wonky rail attachments. I am glad to see that people have worded it better, as I word things in the most stupidest way possible.

Best Regards,
[[User:Burga|Burga]] ([[User talk:Burga|talk]]) 17:27, 16 March 2018 (EDT)

== SASG-12 ==
Looks like the "SASG-12" shotgun is based on the customized Saigas by the Hatcher Gun Company.

[https://www.hatchergun.com/saiga_custom.htm] Should I mention it? [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 07:56, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
:You should mention it if there's nothing closer out there. The in-game model seems to still have some differences with these custom Saigas. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 08:15, 27 April 2018 (EDT)

== Trivia ==

[https://i.redd.it/a8z3c7qp8sk01.jpg Finka's] early concept art shows her holding an [[A-91]]. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 01:19, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

:That reminds me that I have these things from Operation Outbreak floating around still-
:[[file:R6S G36art.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:[[file:R6S Mk18ishart.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:[[file:R6S PPSh.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:26, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/814f6x/the_abandonment_of_realism_a_long_post_on/ This reddit rant] had some extra trivia info on some stuff around the game, like the laser sight models and Glaz's new thermal imager. I don't want to talk about their opinions, but I do find some of the details they pointed out interesting.

I also found via artstation that all weapons have tactical lights in Outbreak mode, and one of the artists had to [https://www.artstation.com/artwork/kJBAl make up a flashlight model] for some pistols that lack attachment points of any kind. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 01:19, 9 May 2018 (EDT)

:Wow, does that guy have a stick up his ass. Frankly, I'd kill for the amount of realism Siege has in Ghost Recon Wildlands. Seriously, Ubi, just point to your preferred sacrifice. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:58, 9 May 2018 (EDT)

== 7.62x54mmR Suppressor ==

Anyone know if there's a real equivalent of this?
[[File:RSS 7.62x54mmR suppessor.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:28, 6 August 2018 (EDT)
It reminds me about the PBS-4. But in-game suppressor isn't fully identical to it so maybe I'm wrong. [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 01:59, 10 August 2018 (EDT)

== Operation Grim Sky ==

Clash has a B&T MP9 and a CZ P10C (first appearance in anything?!). Maverick has an "M4", another AR-15 but in .50 Beowulf and a 1911 Tacops (SIG?). I like these additions and I'm glad since I was expecting recycled guns like in Chimera. ---P226 17:47, 19 August 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Rainbow Six Siege

2018-08-19T21:47:17Z

P226: /* Operation Grim Sky */ new section

==Already...==
It seem that the M1911 Variant has an incorrect 10 rounds in a 8 rounds magazine. There is IN FACT a 10 rounds magazine for M1911s but it seem it's not in this one --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]
[[File:10roundsm1911.jpg|thumb|600px|none|10 Rounds magazine .45 ACP for M1911 and Variants]]

== New footage ==

Numerous new features can be seen clearly here: the MP5 ingame is referred to as the MP5F and has an unusual crooked stock (12:17), there is a USP for the terrorists, various attachments for the G36C including an oddly-reticuled ACOG scope, and the identification (at least ingame) of the 1911 as the M45 MEUSOC. At this stage it would appear that the MP5 has replaced the Mac-10 as the terrorists' weapon of choice. [[User:Sandymon|Sandymon]] ([[User talk:Sandymon|talk]])

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN9CMGuyGvQ

== Alpha weapons ==

Someone leaked some footage of the Alpha so we can't "use" it, but it showed a FAMAS G2, P90, UMP, Mossberg 591A1, P226, HK33A2, S&W M586, FNP-9, and a stand-alone M320

There's also a MAC-11. Don't know if that's the same gun as what's labeled as the MAC-10.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

:I am still waiting for the alpha key... Although I did answer that I don't play CoD, BF, nor Titanfall so maybe they won't even send the key... :( - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 03:32, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
::I watched this trailer on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWgOSimxoPs YouTube] and I screencapped an the UMP, FAMAS F1 and an assault rifle I didn't recognize. At first I thought it was an HK416 but then I noticed it has a charging handle on the right side of the gun. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:44, 22 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6Siege assault rifle 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown assault rifle]]
[[File:R6Siege Famas.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS F1]]
[[File:R6Siege UMP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Untextured UMP]]
They released a bunch of official footage today. FMG9, 5-7 USG, HK417, SA80 with DD rails, SG 556 XI, Remington R4. I think a Glock was briefly shown in a loadout window. FAMAS G2 is an F1 despite the name.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:Here's a screencap from the official site, the same picture also appears in the end of some videos, and I think there's MPX with a suppressor as in the MPX-SD variant, but the weapon itself is about the same length as the basic variant. Perhaps we see it in a future video. --[[User:CnC Fin|CnC Fin]] ([[User talk:CnC Fin|talk]]) 16:03, 31 March 2015 (EDT)
[[File:R6siege mpx.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Unidentified firearms ==

I'm entirely certain that the unidentified ''VSN'' is a ''Vityaz-SN'', [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/OSN_Saturn_special_purpose_unit_%28506-20%29.jpg a 9mm Parabellum submachine gun] in use with the Russian special units that belong to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, MVD. It is also used by some specialized police detachments, such as [http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/Interpolitex-2013/i-tF82bS7/0/O/Interpolitex2013part01-17.jpg Grom] of the Federal Drug Control Service.

The unidentified machine gun with a canted ammo box is actually a relatively well represented (as of late) ''PKP'' general purpose machine gun in an [http://i.imgur.com/gnAgMhX.jpg updated bullpup kit] by the Russian company Zenit. It was supposed to be used by special forces in close quarter urban combat apparently, but it didn't quite catch on. Still the initial batch was retained and could see limited action. Interestingly enough, Zenit is the same company that made the rail system and stock used by the Vityaz-SN. Ultimately, [http://www.zenitco.ru/files/pulemet2_1.jpg Zenit dropped the exotic bullpup kit] and went for something more conventional. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 10:06, 30 July 2015 (EDT)

: Thanks, those all seem correct. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

== The M590A1 ==
I'm pretty sure that the M590A1 is the Blackwater variant as it has a picatinny rail on the receiver and it appears that the ghost ring is part of the rail. The inventory image also shows that it has the "Speed Feed" stock and the tri-rail handguard; both standard on the Blackwater variant. [[User:Majorcamo|Majorcamo]] ([[User talk:Majorcamo|talk]]) 22:21, 15 September 2015 (EDT)

== Vepr-12? ==

Are we absolutely certain that's a Molot Vepr and not actually a Saiga? It's missing the elongated magazine well typical of the Vepr. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 17:39, 30 November 2015 (EST)

== Flash-hiders ==

Am I the only the one noticed that every gun that has a flash-hider, sans the P90, has an A2 flash-hider? [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 00:15, 1 December 2015 (EST)

== Weapons actually used ==

How many of the weapons in this game are actually used by special forces (of whatever they are called) in real life? I've seen some GIGN guys use revolvers and SAS have used the MP5, but the L85, AK12 etc seems rather out of place.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 05:29, 1 December 2015 (EST)
:The L85 and AK12 fit the SAS and Spetsnaz factions respectively.....given said weapons origins. They may not be standard issue but it's safe to assume that high tier counterterrorist units have access to almost any weapon they want.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 13:04, 1 December 2015 (EST)
::The SAS never use L85s, they use L119A1s (Colt Canada C8 SFW, basically M4A1s), The Spetsnaz using AK-12s in not outlandish, as the AK-12 is going through field-trials now. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 18:46, 1 December 2015 (EST)

==MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST==
It seems the "MAC-11" is a MPA10SST [[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]] ([[User talk:James Dalcan|talk]]) 05:25, 4 December 2015 (EST)
[[File:MPA10SST.jpeg|thumb|none|400px|MasterPiece Arms MPA10SST]]

== Noticed something on the wall of the armory in Club House ==

[[File:Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® Siege_20160110214429.jpeg|400px|thumb]]
Spotted a Bizon, an RPG-7 and a very low resolution model of what it seems to me an AK-103 with wood furniture similar to the one in Far Cry 3^^

--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 15:45, 10 January 2016 (EST)DH20
:Nice picture, contains a lot of words.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:40, 10 January 2016 (EST)

Damn, sorry Its my first time posting in here, i was trying to get a screencap off my PS4 with the share button but couldn't do it, it seems :( but trust me i know what i saw AK.
--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 16:49, 10 January 2016 (EST)DH20
:Those are some shitty models, looks like the game is running on ultra low or something.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:58, 11 January 2016 (EST)

== P12/USP Tactical ==

Game says it's chambered in .45ACP, however weapon capacity is 15+1. Should it be 9mm, not .45ACP which has capacity of 10 or 12 in a mag? --[[User:-Sentinel-|-Sentinel-]] ([[User talk:-Sentinel-|talk]]) 15:29, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:I'd put "though it says it's a .45 it incorrectly holds 15+1 like a 9mm USP instead of 12+1 like a real USP45." [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 23:03, 7 February 2016 (EST)

== Leaked operator with SIG MPX ==
[[File:rainbow6siegeleakedoperator.jpg|500px|thumb]]
A friend linked me a leaked picture of an upcoming operator, supposedly a Navy SEAL, that seems to be wielding a [[SIG-Sauer MPX]] --[[User:Jaffaceksi|Jaffaceksi]] ([[User talk:Jaffaceksi|talk]]) 18:50, 13 February 2016 (EST)

==Browning Hi-Power==
The in game Hi-Power has an odd serrations on the slide, one side are all tight like in the ones pictured on the Hi-Power page, and the other side has them thicker and widely spaced similar to the one seen in [[Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops_2#Browning_Hi-Power|Call of Duty: Black Ops II]], is this an error, or is there a newer version that is like this? The only Hi-Power I've ever used was my Grandfathers old service piece from the 50's, and that one didn't have the variation between sides.--[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 12:59, 5 March 2016 (EST)

== Delta gun ==

From one of the Idris vids

http://s23.postimg.org/bg73fjsmj/ddd.png

Has an Army of Two style shield on the gun and the rail cover extends past the end of the barrel.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])

==The MPX doesn't look right to me==
Look at the MPX's magazine well, it looks much too big for its round, and looks like it doesn't seat properly. By the way, is the article going to be updated soon to add the Operation: Dust Line weapons?

[http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/rainbowsix/images/6/68/R6S-mpx.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160511193901 Rainbow Six Siege MPX] [[User:CloversCorner|CloversCorner]] ([[User talk:CloversCorner|talk]]) 15:57, 11 May 2016 (EDT)
:Looks more like the magazine is misporportioned, wait until the final release. I'm kinda bummed that the new characters have super trope-y weapons like the Deagle and SPAS-12.....[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:01, 11 May 2016 (EDT)
::I'm more than bummed by the Desert Eagle. Rainbow Six Siege is supposed to be a realistic squad based game inspired by real units and the weapons and equipment they use. And then they stick a frigging Desert Eagle as a Navy SEAL sidearm. Pandering to the COD crowd. I'm rather pissed off that they did that. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 05:11, 12 May 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I just don't get it. I mean, the SCAR and the MK. 11 make sense, the MPX is okay with me, and the SPAS-12, well, it's not the most practical thing in the world, but it's not necessarily bad (although, with the 6+1 capacity, they may as well have used the compact model to fit in with the CQB theme). Still, seriously? A Desert Eagle? I mean, if you wanted a big, imposing handgun, you could go with a Mk. 23, which is infinitely more practical than the DE (though, granted, that's not exactly saying much), has been in previous R6 games, and was actually meant for the US military. Seriously, it's just downright illogical. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:19, 2 September 2016 (EDT)
::Looks like the magazine size is off. Took this myself. http://www.imfdb.org/images/4/4d/SIEGE_MPX.jpeg [[User:Zombiedrd|Zombiedrd]] ([[User talk:Zombiedrd|talk]]) 10:58, 12 May 2016 (EDT)

:::The mag-well's a bit bigger than it should be, the mags are a bit too short, and they are placed in the mag-well a bit too forward instead of in the center. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 12:56, 25 May 2016 (EDT)

== C8 barrel length ==

Not sure what to make of it, as it falls in between the SFW and CQB models. Looks to 11.5in..?
[[File:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[File:Cc-r6.siege-c8sfw-001.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[File:ColtCanada C8CQB.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
:It doesn't help that like all the assault rifles in the game, it has an A2 birdcage flash hider. When in doubt, I say it's closer to the CQB do to the short barrel, even if it's a little longer. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 12:48, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
::11.5" barrel would make it a Colt 933. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:59, 1 September 2016 (EDT)

== Other unusable wall weapons in Kafe Dostoyevsky ==

[[Image:R6SKafe.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Potato-quality because Xbone.]]
Presumably a pair of Colt SAA's, flintlock pistols, and some three barreled pepperbox revolver. These can be found in the room next to the train exhibit.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:19, 12 June 2016 (EDT)

:I'll also leave the Dust Line background image here:
:[[File:RSSKeymodAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|C-Clamp™]]
:--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:20, 24 June 2016 (EDT)

On the subject of unusable guns in menu screens, some menus include M6290 flashbangs. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 09:12, 1 September 2016 (EDT)
:And, for that matter, there's a Jericho 941 on the logo of Operation <s>No Refunds</s> Health. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 12:43, 31 July 2017 (EDT)

::[[File:RSS Villaweapons.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]] Also, there's a Vetterli and some simple looking rifle in the armory of the Villa level.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:38, 1 July 2018 (EDT)

== New guns in Skull Rain ==

Ok, so we are getting a Beretta M12, Spas-15 for the defender operator Caveira, while the offensive gets a M249, DSA SA58 and for sidearm there is a Beretta 92 series pistol (not sure on the model yet, probably a Taurus PT)

What are your thoughts? Personally i think we have enough of these shotgun-wielding gals but that's just me°-°
:It's nice to see a SPAS-15 pop up, but hopefully it isn't a copy-paste of Valkyrie/Frost's shotguns. I was kinda hoping one of them would shootdodge like Max Payne lol.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:09, 28 July 2016 (EDT)
:The M249 seems to fire at an unrealistically slow 690 RPM (probably lowered for balance reasons). Caveira's PT92 gets a super cool suppressor sleeve and apparently fires "non-lethal" ammo (despite her visibly killing someone during the gameplay demo...).

== Spotted a new gun ==

There is a S&W M&P in one of the posters seen in oregon, in the first set of beds on the dormitory, next to the west window, i'd love to upload the picture but i don't have the necessary means to do it :( Sorry.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 15:41, 31 August 2016 (EDT)

== Next DLC ==

So... the next DLC will consist of Japanese operators. I've heard speculation of a P229 or P220, a Benelli Supernova, a Howa Type 89, and a Mineba PM9. I'd also expect a Howa Type 64, and maybe an AR-18. Thoughts? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:23, 13 November 2016 (EST)
:It's been confirmed as the Supernova for both operators, the Type 89 for Hibana, and a MP5SD4 for Echo. Sidearms are the P229 and PM-9.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:59, 13 November 2016 (EST)

== SVU question ==

I played this for the free weekend that just concluded, and when I played the "Cold Zero" situation I saw no such red tint through the SVU's magnifier as the section for that gun mentions. I'm assuming it was removed at some point, given one of our screenshots shows it, and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_mhlFXZO98 this video] from just after release still has it, but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLYNI_r3Ik this one] from a month ago lacks it. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 18:36, 13 November 2016 (EST)
:It looks like it is still there, just toned down a bit (similar to in the initial release, your vision went very greyscale at low health).--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:32, 13 November 2016 (EST)

==Spanish Operators==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTke6uUPvNw

Looks like a Kriss Vector, Fabarm STF 12, Fabarm STF 12 Short, POF PSG, and Diemaco C7E. Can't tell if that USP is a new Compact model.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
:are you sure it is a POF PSG and not an UDP-9? You can tell by the trigger guard but then again the PSG is in Ghost Recon: Wildlands and there it looks like a complete different model than the one portrayed in Siege.--[[User:Death Shadow20|Death Shadow20]] ([[User talk:Death Shadow20|talk]]) 10:27, 6 February 2017 (EST)
::Looks like you're right. It has that tiny hole running through the boltcatch on the left, and the icon has that distinct strip just above the magwell.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]])
Somebody mentioned Diemaco C7 as NLD on reddit. Probably Colt Canada C7NLD. --[[User:-Sentinel-|-Sentinel-]] ([[User talk:-Sentinel-|talk]]) 11:19, 7 February 2017 (EST)
:Undoubtedly.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 12:28, 7 February 2017 (EST)

==Question==

Why this game stopped having updates?--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 11:32, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
:Except it's still being updated and current operation is [https://rainbow6.ubisoft.com/siege/en-us/news/152-289775-16/year-2-season-2-operation-health Operation Health]. It was updated in June 7, 2017 to 2.2.1 and next patch 2.2.2 is scheduled to sometime in July 2017. The point is: this operation doesn't bring any content updates like operators, weapons or maps (it will introduce Alpha Packs though aka lootboxes) and instead focuses on matchmaking and bug fixes. For new ops and maps you need to wait for August (if not September). --[[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 12:30, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

Thank you Terramax. It just looked weird that no Operations were made in almost 1 year.I dont own the game so I cant knew it.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 13:12, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

== Grzmot mines ID ==

Them look like a Polish WW2 mines, which I dont remember the names, any idea?
--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 09:47, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

== White Noise ==

Damn, we're going to need some new weapon images. They really made some odd picks- I don't even know what the SMG-2 ''is'', although I think it's based on an Uzi Pro pistol. On a different note, what do you guys think about these new operators? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 17:02, 20 November 2017 (EST)
:The "SMG-12" seems to be some sorta amalgamation of a Masterpiece Arms MAC variant with the folding stock of a Mini Uzi. The K1A is listed in game as an SMG, despite very clearly being a carbine (probably due to Daewoo referring to it as such), and the "M762" is more than likely a full length Beryl 7.62 with a ''disgusting'' thumbhole stock. Interestingly enough, it uses Western optics instead of Ruskie ones, which makes me question why they even gave her an AK to begin with. And, of course, that stupid airsoft gun from Wildlands has reared its head again. Thanks Canada. As for the ops themselves, I'm gonna go ahead and say real quick that Zofia is stupidly powerful. She gets all the utility of Ash, and she can revive herself. Why? Great question. But either way she's definitely gonna see a lot of combat time by high level teams. Vigil is certainly a fun choice, as he's especially good against teams who are on their drones a lot, and I really love his design in general. And then we have Dokkaebi who, while definitely being a very strange operator in nature, could be a cheeky pick of casual matches, like Caveira. Though she is unfortunately saddled with a DMR and shotgun, so, as with Echo, you're probably gonna be using her machine pistols more than her primaries. --[[User:Patfast|Patfast]] ([[User talk:Patfast|talk]]) 17:48, 20 November 2017 (EDT)

Western optics on Polish-made rifle made after the '90s made sense, Patfast. Poland is on NATO side now.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 10:11, 29 November 2017 (EST)

::The Beryl stock looks like a Hera Arms CQR, despite that not being normally intended for AK-type rifles. I don't quite get why they gave Zofia that Krytac gun, or why they gave the South Koreans a tactical O/U. I mean, sure, asset recycling is a factor, but they could've given her a dozen other machine guns that they already had models for (the KAC LMG, the HK121, etc), or maybe created a more appropriate model, like a UKM-2000 (considering that she is a Pole). And as for the shotgun, they could've used a KSG (which that group apparently actually uses), or even a proper South Korean shotgun, the USAS-12 (as hard as that would be to balance). Generally speaking, they made some odd choices with the weapons here. I do think that Zofia's gadget is going to be a force to be reckoned with, considering the quick breaching potential of the impact grenades (and the infuriation potential of the concussion grenades), but I don't think that the self-revive thing is going to be that big of a deal. I mean, she gets up with ''one'' hitpoint. Someone breathes on her too hard and she'll be down for the count. I frankly just think that they included that for the sake of one-in-a-million dramatic clutches that people pull off on Twitch streams (y'know, 1 HP and a dream), but I might be proven wrong. All we can do is wait and see. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 19:01, 20 November 2017 (EST)
:::I was hoping to see the whole Daewoo family - K7 SMG, K3 SAW and K5 pistol, but I guess the hipster-operators (seriously, did they hire Tumblr artists to create the characters and abilities for this season?) we got have to go with weird weapon choices. Although its cool to see the Rock Island M14, that variant never really shows up in anything. --[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:22, 20 November 2017 (EST)
::::I agree, I think this is the worst match of equipment and CTU, I don't understand the reasoning behind choosing weapons for CTU. You don't even need to hire active/former CTU member/veteran for that kind of info (MoHW was great though), even Wikipedia has information about it mostly with sources. To me it looks like "k2,k1,k7 - they're another c8-sfw,c7nld,416c,sr25" and I hope it's not the case. Maybe I'm glad I'm not getting Israel CTU for now, I don't want them to receive the same treatment as GROM (writing-wise) and them having no Galil, ACE or MTAR. Like IMFDB, I'm looking forward for more weapon representation in games. Also, [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] thank you for rearranging and formatting new weapons properly. I was almost triggered how Ubisoft gave [[AK-12]] to Polish operator first time I saw it in TTS, but then I noticed the fixed rear sight and, just like [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] said, it's HERA Arms CQR stock with some "aftermarket dust cover?" and handguards. And... it's almost certain their design team visited [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/30/hera-arms-cqr-stock-ak-rifle/ this page] for "inspiration" for "M762" (and not actual "Beryl M762" from Google Search or FB page). [[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 06:06, 21 November 2017 (EST)

== "Beryl M762" ==

Here's material for you guys who want to identify or try to explain what this gun actually is (like how "C8-SFW" and "C7E" were explained previously to be other guns completely or heavily modified). First: [http://fabrykabroni.pl/en/produkty/karabiny/beryl-m-7-62/ here's official Beryl M762] from FABRYKA BRONI "ŁUCZNIK" RADOM. Second: [https://www.flickr.com/photos/stickgunner/21074884113/ here's original non-photoshopped image] by Stickman. The handguard is Midwest Industries Extended Handguard and magazine is US PALM (not depicted in-game anyway). And third one is the "inspiration" image: [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/30/hera-arms-cqr-stock-ak-rifle/ here's the same image, but photoshopped with HERA Arms CQR stock] by TFB blog. The in-game model is probably "inspired" by the third one with the addition of custom railed dust cover (can't identify it properly, it still resembles new production AK-12/AK-15 one, but maybe not) and new in-game vertical grip model. [[User:Terramax|Terramax]] ([[User talk:Terramax|talk]]) 15:47, 7 December 2017 (EST)
:I personally see it as an M762 in name only. I'm gonna give a physical description and mention the inspirations but not directly call it a Beryl M762.--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 07:57, 22 February 2018 (EST)

== Looks like p226 and p229 both have DA only triggers in the game. ==

Their hammers are uncocked not like other pistols, is it a mistake or intended?

== Apparently they changed USP40 to a DAO version in TTS ==

Does DAO USP Compact exist?

== GSG-9 Shotgun ==

Hey guys, as some of you noticed, I changed the info for the GSG-9 shotgun, because I found out that it is actually based off of the G&P M870 RAS with some wonky rail attachments. I am glad to see that people have worded it better, as I word things in the most stupidest way possible.

Best Regards,
[[User:Burga|Burga]] ([[User talk:Burga|talk]]) 17:27, 16 March 2018 (EDT)

== SASG-12 ==
Looks like the "SASG-12" shotgun is based on the customized Saigas by the Hatcher Gun Company.

[https://www.hatchergun.com/saiga_custom.htm] Should I mention it? [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 07:56, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
:You should mention it if there's nothing closer out there. The in-game model seems to still have some differences with these custom Saigas. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 08:15, 27 April 2018 (EDT)

== Trivia ==

[https://i.redd.it/a8z3c7qp8sk01.jpg Finka's] early concept art shows her holding an [[A-91]]. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 01:19, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

:That reminds me that I have these things from Operation Outbreak floating around still-
:[[file:R6S G36art.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:[[file:R6S Mk18ishart.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:[[file:R6S PPSh.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:26, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/814f6x/the_abandonment_of_realism_a_long_post_on/ This reddit rant] had some extra trivia info on some stuff around the game, like the laser sight models and Glaz's new thermal imager. I don't want to talk about their opinions, but I do find some of the details they pointed out interesting.

I also found via artstation that all weapons have tactical lights in Outbreak mode, and one of the artists had to [https://www.artstation.com/artwork/kJBAl make up a flashlight model] for some pistols that lack attachment points of any kind. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 01:19, 9 May 2018 (EDT)

:Wow, does that guy have a stick up his ass. Frankly, I'd kill for the amount of realism Siege has in Ghost Recon Wildlands. Seriously, Ubi, just point to your preferred sacrifice. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:58, 9 May 2018 (EDT)

== 7.62x54mmR Suppressor ==

Anyone know if there's a real equivalent of this?
[[File:RSS 7.62x54mmR suppessor.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:28, 6 August 2018 (EDT)
It reminds me about the PBS-4. But in-game suppressor isn't fully identical to it so maybe I'm wrong. [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 01:59, 10 August 2018 (EDT)

== Operation Grim Sky ==

Clash has a B&T MP9 and a CZ P10C (first appearance in anything?!). Maverick has an "M4", an AR-15 in .50 Beowulf and a 1911 Tacops (SIG?). I like these additions and I'm glad since I was expecting recycled guns like in Chimera. ---P226 17:47, 19 August 2018 (EDT)

Talk:True Detective - Season 1

2017-04-01T21:25:47Z

P226: /* Rust's duty gun */

==Unknown Rifle==
Cohle's friend Robert Doumain (Johnny McPhail) uses a rifle in episode 8.

[[File:TrueDet-S08E01-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Robert aims the rifle.]]

In episode 7, Rust asks Marty what he's carrying, and he says ".38 hollow points." The revolver, which looks like his earlier .44 mag 629, Is not, and has a non-fluted cylinder. It looks like a model 627 Lew Horton 8-shot model only produced in 1999 for S&W performance center. It was the only snub nosed 627 made. --[[User:Rugerlvr|Rugerlvr]] ([[User talk:Rugerlvr|talk]]) 21:09, 3 March 2014 (EST)
:Agreed. From the head-on screencap, there are definitely more than just six shots. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 02:24, 4 March 2014 (EST)

==reggie ledoux guns==
When reggie ledoux is first held at gunpoint by marty some guns can be seen on the counter that he comtemplates reaching for before he notices that rust is also drawing down on him. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] ([[User talk:AdAstra2009|talk]]) 13:18, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

== Rust's duty gun ==

Was Rust's duty gun really the Glock 17 (in 1995)? It looks like he was carrying the SIG P226 for the most part and would sometimes wise the Glock.
-P226

Talk:True Detective - Season 1

2017-03-26T20:16:30Z

P226: /* Rust's duty gun */ new section

Talk:Rainbow Six

2016-01-04T20:31:30Z

P226: Created page with "Isn't the straight magazine for the MP5 an indicator that it's an MP-40 (MP5 chambered in .40 SW) like in the novel? --~~~~"

Isn't the straight magazine for the MP5 an indicator that it's an MP-40 (MP5 chambered in .40 SW) like in the novel? ---P226 15:31, 4 January 2016 (EST)

Talk:Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories

2011-12-17T01:43:12Z

P226: /* Anachronisms? */

== The SP89 ==
I can't believe that nobody noticed this anachronism, but I suppose it isn't the first time that Rockstar Games has goofed on firearm specifications in video games (much less, ones set in the past). [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 16:12, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== The Ithaca 37 ==

:This has beenn a really difficult gun to identify, so I just went to get confirmation: is this an Ithaca 37? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 16:52, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::It is a Over and under double barrel shotgun. There are pictures of it in the double barrel shotgun page. This shotgun also appears in Liberty city Stories.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==MP5 Thingamabob==
It is not at all a safe assumption that the "SMG" is directly based on an SP89. Take into account A: the frankengun mishmash appearance of it, and B: the fact that both Vice City and Liberty City Stories had their own MP5K abominations that were very clearly not SP89's either. [[User:PersonOfInterest|PersonOfInterest]]

==Anachronisms?==
I'm not sure if the US Army adopted the M249 in 1984, if so then the M249's appearance is anachronistic. Though you could explain that it's an FN Minimi. But then again, I'm not sure when the Minimi itself was put in production. The Beretta's presence is completely unrealistic as the XM9 trials didn't happen until 1985 and even then the Army didn't receive the M9 pistols until 1988. It would make more sense if they stuck with the 1911. Correct me if any of this is wrong though.
Hughjefender

Its a M92 not a military issue M9, the original M92 was developed in the mid 70's. As for the SAW, it apparently got issued in '84 so its not anachronistic.---P226 19:43, 16 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories

2011-12-17T01:43:00Z

P226: /* Anachronisms? */

Talk:Dark Blue (TV Series)

2011-12-07T21:32:52Z

P226: /* Whats the point? */ new section

When placing screenshots in the page, please use the proper formatting. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:09, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Links are just as well and for some reason adding pictures doesn't work for me.

24guns,
:Take a look at the page now and see how I put your images on the page. Also before uploading, change your file names into something easier to work with. Instead of having "Screen shot 2010-06-28 at 12.16.31 PM.", use "DB-M4A1-1". DB for Dark Blue, M4A1 for the weapon and 1 for the image # --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:23, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

==The page==
The page is a mess, I'll try to clean and sort it out as I post screencaps and progress through the series... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:22, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== removed from main page (considering the Glock screenshots) ==

''That last screenshot looks more like a SIG than a Glock to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:54, 28 February 2011 (UTC)''

== removed from main page (1911) ==

The Gun IS an M1911A1 notice the frame cutouts behind the trigger. The trigger could very well be aftermarket

Exactly, it's incredibly easy to swap out a trigger on these guns, and there are millions of afteramrket triggers available. It's an A1. --[[User:James3|James3]] 14:01, 12 April 2011 (CDT)

== KP89 or KP90? ==

I think that whoever said a KP90 is used in the Pilot episode, while a KP89 is used in the second episode, is mistaken. Why would the armorer bring two different but (almost) visually identical guns in different calibers to the set? It would make a lot more sense (given economics) that only one Ruger pistol was brought to the set and used by both [[James Russo]] and [[Gonzalo Menendez]] in the first two episodes. And I'm guessing it's probably a KP89 since we all know that 9mm pistols are the norm in Hollywood. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:43, 23 March 2011 (CDT)

::It was me. To me that bore looked like a .45, especially when comparing it to the Ruger used in the second episode. I didn't think about what's the most convenient thing for the armorer. I mean look at the bores, there's a difference. And aren't pilots shot before you shoot the remaining season? I mean don't you market it to studios, and when somebody gives you the funds you get to it. Maybe then the crew, and even the armorer(?) might have changed. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 05:45, 24 March 2011 (CDT)

:::You do raise a good point: The Pilot episode is always shot before the rest of the first season, and sometimes the crew (and even members of the cast) can change in the interim period before the show is greenlit for a full season. That being said, regarding the pistol specifically, I really don't think that looks like a .45 ACP bore. Unless we have good visual evidence to be sure this Ruger is a KP90 (i.e. the magazine is ejected and we see it's single-stack), odds are that it's a a KP89. And whenever we're in doubt, we always assume a pistol is a 9mm (as opposed to a larger caliber variant) because that's what is most common in prop houses' armories. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 09:52, 24 March 2011 (CDT)

== moving this here ==

[[Image:DarkBluePoster1.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|''Dark Blue'' (2009 - 2010)]]

== Whats the point? ==

In having a flat top M4 section and a regular M4 section? They are the same guns

Talk:Heckler & Koch HK416 rifle series

2011-12-07T01:29:02Z

P226: /* RIS */ new section

== Discussion ==

"See Also

* M4A1 Firearm from which the HK416 was derived. "
As far as i know the 416/417 rifles are based on the M16/AR15 series ONLY in looks and are using similar interiors like the G36
:Utter bullshit you are spewing there as even H&K admits publically that the M416 is simply an improved M4A1 carbine. The gas piston system may possibly be adapted from that of a G36 to work on an M4 but that is all. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:50, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
:::And the gas piston on the G36 was derived from the AR-18. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)
::The HK 416 WAS meant to be a improved M4A1 from the get go!

They brought on board Larry Vickers a former Delta Force operative to help design the HK416. And it was always intended to be an improved M4A1. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:28, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

== HK 416c ==

someone who has an idea of the engine of imfdb.org has to add the new HK 416c
http://www.heckler-koch.com/HKWebText/detailProd/1928/475/4/19
at least the pictures would be great to upload!!

It should probably be in a movie first...but yeah cool design.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 15:56, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

If it was used in a movie or video game. If not, then no. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:54, 3 December 2011 (CST)

== M27 IAR ==

Are there any differences between the normal HK416 and the M27 IAR, or that's just the U.S. Army name of the gun, like the M1014 is the M4 Super 90's ?? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 03:26, 20 August 2011 (CDT)
:I think it's a HK416 with a longer barrel and handguard. Some guys in the U.S. Military (I think the Marines) got the okay from the high-ups or whoever to get these under the guise of new "SAWs" (Squad Automatic Weapons) but the Marines actually use them as assault rifles, lol. I think that's how the story goes, I just remembered it off the top of my head, shows you how much the U.S. Military wants HK416s.

:[[Image:H&K M27 IAR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch M27 IAR]]
:[[Image:Hk416-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 14.5 inch barrel]]
:- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:40, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

:: Here is the Wikipedia article on the M27 IAR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M27_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle

::Apparently the weapon was adopted by the Marine Corps as a replacement for the M249 SAW. The main differences are a heavier barrel to handle prolonged automatic firing and a bayonet lug. It is rated for 20 & 30-round STANAG box magazines, but tests are underway on higher-capacity magazines such as the beta-C drum mag. It also has a slower rate of fire; 560 to 640 rounds per minute vs. 700 to 900 rpm with the HK416. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 02:03, 1 October 2011 (CDT)
:::A ''supplement'' for the M249, not a replacement. There's no way in HFIL that a magazine-fed weapon could ''replace'' a belt-fed automatic weapon in the suppression fire role. If the Corps wanted to lessen reliance on the SAW, just put FA lowers on M16A4s and M4s and be done with it. Why do you think SOF don't use a SAW? Because ''all'' of their weapons are capable of full auto. I don't see why they didn't give this an M1918A3 designation, since it's just ''BAR 2.0''. Maybe they should replace their M16s with M1 Garands and their M4s with M1 carbines, considering this backwards motion that procurement is taking. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:14, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::The M27 IAR was meant as a prolonged Automatic Rifle not a Light Machine Gun. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 09:51, 4 December 2011 (CST)
:::::In application, there really isn't any difference between the two. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:05, 5 December 2011 (CST)

::As an Automatic Rifle it has only 2 inches on the standard HK416's barrel length. Sure, without a belt-feed it can still feed casket- or drum-magazines, but those usually don't net you more than a 100 rounds maximum. And for maximum accuracy wouldn't you need the full 20-inch barrel? Or would they rather use M16A4s for that? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 11:05, 4 December 2011 (CST)

== Stock options for the HK Rifle series ==

All the photos or depictions I've seen for this rifle series depict them with telescoping M4-style buttstocks. Of course it can use a fixed buttstock, but if this rifle is based on the G36 then it stands to reason that it should be able to use the same buttstocks as a G36 can, such as a folding buttstock or just a buttcap. Wouldn't those units issued HK416s/HK417s want the added versatility of a folding buttstock if they're going to be travelling in a vehicle a lot? What about a combination folding/telescoping buttstock seen on the LR-300 rifles? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 05:19, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Only the bolt and gas system are from the G36, the outside is (mostly) just like a M4A1 Carbine. A G36 stock would not fit on a M4/M16 why would it fit a HK416, I'm surprised you don't see that. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:12, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

In any case, the G36 gas system has no need for a receiver extension (that big cylindrical thing sticking out the back if you remove a standard AR-15's buttstock) that precludes folding buttstocks. I suppose the standard M4 telescoping stock was kept for familiarity's sake, but for those who can afford to train to adapt to the difference, I'm very surprised that HK didn't go all the way and introduce a folding stock for maximum compactness. It's not exactly rocket science to make and attach a folding buttstock securely to a rifle that can take it, and this is why I'm confused as to why I haven't seen one yet for an HK416. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 19:06, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Well, this is what the U.S. Military wanted. :\ Most other gas-piston ARs still have the buffer-tube too. P.S. I think you meant "buffer-tube" not "receiver extension" - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:49, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

The bolt in an HK416 isn't from the G36, it differs very little from an AR-15 bolt. [http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN2461.jpg] For that reason, it does require a buffer tube and can't take a folding stock. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:59, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:Yes, it seems from [http://www.armytimes.com/projects/flash/2007_02_20_carbine/ this flash animation] that the HK416 still (regrettably) uses a buffer tube. I still don't know why they didn't go "whole hog" for the HK416/417 since "compactness, compactness, compactness" seems to be the order of the day, since a folding buttstock makes it even shorter (without sacrificing range or accuracy like shortening a barrel does). And the G36 (according to a newer photo of an additional variant on this wiki) also had a combination buttstock earlier. Was it to make the field-stripping/maintenance process similar enough to the M4 carbine so those used to it could transition without any further training? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:57, 4 December 2011 (CST)

::Because it's what Delta wanted. The point of the HK416 was to be just an upgraded M4. No more, no less. If Delta want folding stocks, I'd imagine they have a number of G36Cs (and now SCAR-L/H) laying around in their armory to use. It's pretty safe to assume that top tier units like Delta and DEVGRU have access to virtually any weapon they could ever want to use. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:01, 5 December 2011 (CST)

^ I agree ---P226 21:26, 5 December 2011 (CST)

== RIS ==

Can you switch out the stock RIS on this rifle for another AR15 RIS? Are they compatable?---P226 19:29, 6 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch HK416 rifle series

2011-12-06T03:26:59Z

P226: /* Stock options for the HK Rifle series */

Talk:AK-47

2011-12-04T04:02:36Z

P226: /* What do you guys think? */

__TOC__ 

=='''Image gallery - OTHER variants of the AK-47'''==
Since members get confused by some of the other (usually customized) variants made for movies, we should store the images here, so that all members can easily find a variant that they've seen in a movie or tv show. '''Note: These do NOT belong on the main AK-47 page because they are customized guns for films and not indicative of any 'production gun'.''' They are stored here for viewing and usage on movie pages that require them.

[[Image:AK47WeWereSoldiersHeroGun.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|'''Actual Screen used AK-47''' from the film [[We Were Soldiers]] (built by Cinema Weaponry) - 7.62x39mm.]]
[[Image:Type56MuzzleBrake.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 56-1 Mocked up to resemble [[AK-74#AKS-74|AKS-74]] - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Norinco56Mockup.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 56 Mocked up to resemble [[AK-74]] - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Type84HybridRifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Norinco Type 84S modified with a pig Sticker bayonet, no cleaning rod and milled front end with no detent pin (as seen in ''[[Hollow Point]]'') - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BellyNorincoType56-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Custom Norinco Type 56-1 nickel-plated, fitted with ivory furniture and a Romanian AIM-style vertical grip, originally made for the movie ''[[Belly]]'', also seen in ''[[Lord of War]]'' and ''[[Sopranos, The|The Sopranos]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Zastava M70AB2 with scope.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M70AB2 with scope - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:AK_open.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Custom-built gold-plated AK carbine from ''[[Lord of War]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Ak47mw.2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-47 fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and an [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4 carbine]] stock and Stock Adapter similar to the one in ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]''.- 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:KrinkovQuadRail.jpg|thumb|none|500px| AKMSU with KCI quad rail system - 7.62x39mm.]]
[[File:AKPDW01.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AKMSU with RIS handguard - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:PolytechGalilSidefolder.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Poly Tech AKS-47 [[Galil]] side-folder - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Wm 634735.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FEG AK-63E (Hungarian version of the AKMS) - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:RD-Maadi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Maadi ARM (AKM) - 7.62x39mm as used in ''[[Red Dawn]]'' (1984) (image from Long Mountain Outfitters)]]
[[Image:RomanianblackwidowAKfolder.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Romanian AKMS Black Widow - 7.62x39mm.]]
[[Image:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-47 with a AR-15 stock and a synthetic handguard - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:AKWITHOUTSTOCK.JPG|thumb|500px|none|Airsoft AK-47 replica without stock - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Romanian-WASR-3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Romanian WASR-3 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Zastava_M80.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M80 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:PolyTechLegendAK47.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Poly Technologies Legend AK with original Russian Style front sight, AKM muzzle brake, and bayonet - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Far Cry 3 AK-103.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-103 7.62x39mm with side-mounted RIS rail & [[AK-74]] style stock, handguard, and pistol grip as seen in ''[[Far Cry 3]]'']]
[[Image:MW3 AK 47.jpg|thumb|none|500px| AK-47 with synthetic M4 style stock, pistol grip and Hand guard, AK 74 style muzzle brake, and side mounted RIS rail as seen in ''[[Modern Warfare 3]]'' - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:1romakm47gpwasr10uf1501.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Romanian WASR-10 UF with Tapco magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Bulgarian-AR-M4SF.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Arsenal AR-M4SF with red dot sight and stock folded - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:PM md. 90 Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Romanian PM md. 90 Krinkov - 7.62x39mm. Note: this differs from the US import version the [[AK-47#Romanian_AK_Draco_Carbine|Draco]] by its 3 position fire selector, folding stock as standard and darker AKM type palm-swell handguard.]]

== The Romanian WASR-3==

Should we have a section for the WASR-3?

:Yeah, I suppose we could do that, since they've appeared in at least three movies that we know of (''[[Casino Royale]]'', ''[[Sahara (2005)|Sahara]]'', and now ''[[Hotel Rwanda]]''). I would also like to do a section for the Romanian AIM series, which appears in ''[[Street Kings]]'' and ''[[44 Minutes: The North Hollywood Shoot-out]]''.

::Well thanks to LUMPY, we now know the make and model of the mystery AKs in Casino Royale and Sahara (2005). It's an obscure FEG Hungarian AK variant that was exported to Europe during the 1980s, which is why Sasha Robey has them and We don't. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:26, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

== Get A Load of This Beast! ==

Gentlemen, I present to you, Franken-AK!

[http://www.impactguns.com/store/MGC-PW85-000407.html Franken-AK]
:I hate Franken-guns.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Ugly. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:52, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Looks like someone took the Type 84S from ''[[Hollow Point]]'' and added some wierd-looking muzzle brake and bleached the furniture. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:06, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

== AKMSU ==

The AKMSU SMG has been produced by the USSR from 1975 to 1979 ans distributed to special forces and paratroopers, but they were in many cases too hard to handle to be used effectively, so many were scrapped. In 1979 they were replaced by the AKS74U and the remaining guns were shipped to allied countries like Iraq. Very hard to find, hollywood armories usually carry foreign copys (From Zastava) or mock-ups made with parts of AKS74Us. Standard AKMSU has a forward grip and under-folding stock.

Info source please? As far as i know AKMSU was never mass-produced by USSR. It was abandoned because of obvious problems -- too short barrel that resulted in unsatisfactory bullet ballistics and quick overheating.

:The comment above stretched the page quite a bit to the right. I edited to fix that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

AKMSU 7.62 never produced in the USSR. It is not in any Soviet or Russian book about the Kalashnikov weapons. This weapon is clearly a foreign design [[User:Slow Rider|Slow Rider]] 09:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

It was a project for special forces, tankers and that sort of thing. It was cancelled I believe, because the authorities in question felt that the shortened barrel would degrade ballistic performance, the shortened gas system would cause heating issues and the light weight would make the recoil uncontrollable. Odd given that they approved the AKSU-74 later, but all points aside, there were Russian 7.62x39mm assault carbines back then. It just never went into production.

I beg to differ, I know Wikipedia isn't exactly a reliable source, but Russian Wikipedia has a page on the SOVIET-produced AKMSU. My Russian is still rudimentary (I'm learning), and I wouldn't trust Google Translate that much, but it pretty much says what the first post here says, except that it was produced in 1959, a whopping 20 years before the 74U! The only reason I'm trusting its existence is because I've seen the gun in the pictures there before. I'm dead certain it's never been featured in any media, but it's worth mentioning here. If anything, that unique pre-AKS-74U flash hider is very interesting. Sources: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%9A%D0%9C%D0%A1%D0%A3 http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000570/570186.jpg [[User:GreveSparf|GreveSparf]] 22:07, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

== East German AKs==
Should we have a section for the Mpi-KMS or any East German AK variants because I saw them in Hotel Rwanda and The Hurt Locker, I have no more info because I am new to this site
::Yes, but be sure they really are NVA (East German) AKs. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:37, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

== Zastava M70AB2 ==
I got the picture of the Zastava M70AB2 with standard black pistol grip, should I post it on the main page or keep it here?
[[Image:Zastava M70 AB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Zastava M70AB2 with standard pistol grip - 7.62x39mm]]

I went ahead and added it, and kept the "Mitchell Arms" version on there as well, since it shows a version that'd likely appear in American productions featuring the weapon. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Vltor Modstock? ==
[[Image:Ak47mw.2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-47 fitted with Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and a Vltor Modstock and Stock Adapter.- 7.62x39mm]]

Oh jesus christ. What they have done to that AK ?

It looks more like a typical M4 stock to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:29, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
::So what? Vltor Modstock sounds cooler.

:::I don't care what "sounds cooler". It's a regular M4 stock, '''not''' a Vltor Modstock. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Whatever you want to call it the thing looks revolting. Anyone who tries to "tacticool" an AK should be shot in the face by a true AK. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 22:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

:Homicidal much? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:22, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

== AK-101, AK-102, AK-103 etc. ==

Shouldn't all "black AKs" be in the AK-74 page?
They are just AK-74M in different calibres, and they have AK-74M style muzzle brake and plastic side-folding buttstock.

== Draco Pistol ==
Should we make a section for the Romanian Draco Pistol on the AK-47 page or does it get its own article? Please tell me.
:Unless it has been seen in a film then it does not get a mention. If it is a 7.62X39mm AK pistol then yes it goes on this page. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:22, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

==Hungarian AK==
Isn't the Hungarian FEG AK-63 considered a gun that is not custom? It was made in Hungary, but the company that made it has gone bankrupt and is defunct now. Shouldn't the AK-63 get it's own section?

==The Cold War==
Although weapons from Warsaw pact nations were banned from importation to the US during the Cold War. Did any criminals tried smuggling them into the US?

==Villan weapon==
While I understand the reasons for doing so, I still belive these weapons get a bad deal from Hollywood which always casts them as the "Bad Guy's Gun" even though many nations and rebel groups supported by the U.S. have also used Kalashnikovs.

I think it's because in the real world AKs are the most obtainable assault rifle. It stands to reason that most villains in films would have an AK of some sort. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:14, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

==AK 46, AK 47, AK==
Actualy correct name of the Avtomat Kalashnikova is AK (without 47). AK 46 and AK 47 was esperemental models and serial model is "Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947 year "AK". You also can see it on original NSD (I had photo but now can't find).
Also model called AK now using nowhere, except Africa maybe. This model was quickly changed by AKM, what known in USA as AK 47 7.62х39mm. Only models after AK 74 have numbers in their names.
P.S. Sorry for my terrible english, I whould explain better on esperanto or russian.

== Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater's AMD-65s ==

You forgot to make a video game entree for Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater in the AMD-65 section, the Ocelot Unit uses AMD-65/63 in the game.

== AK-101 and AK-103 ==

Shouldn't they be moved to AK-74 article? They are AK-74M chambered for different rounds.
As far I'm moving AK-101 hence it is practically the same as AK-74 --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] 19:42, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
::No, all 5.56x45mm AK variants are on this page along with the original 7.62x39mm. All 5.45x39mm AK variants are on the AK74 page. Do NOT change it. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:58, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Franken-AK ==
Stumbled across this monstrosity while surfing the other day. Only thing I can think to say is...WTF??? --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 21:47, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
::That's not an AK, but a SAIGA (with a probably Photoshop Job) mpm

look fake

[[Image:WTF1.JPG]]

:- Well, MPM would know photoshop jobs. :b Lol, that's is the most fucked up shit I've seen in a while. Bah! [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:17, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

:::That's only slightly 'shopped. I'll post the original. -protoAuthor 21:35, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:K178977 k79867 saiga.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The original]]

== Question about AK actions ==

I was wondering, when firing an AK-series rifle, does the bolt lock back in the open position after the last round as with [[M16 rifle series|M16-series]] rifles, or does it come back closed again? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:24, 6 March 2011 (MSK)
: Normally, NO! But the Yugoslav models had a modified bolt that when used with a Yugoslav magazine with a modified follower, would lock the bolt open on the last round. BUT, when the magazine was removed, the bolt closed anyway. The bolt would not lock back if another magazine type was used. Sometimes a notch was cut into the selector to hold the bolt back but this only worked when the selector was set to safe after you pulled the bolt back. ''Wraith''

== What AK is this? ==

I'm currently doing some recapping for a big edit of the [[Ultimate Force]] page and came across this gun:
[[File:Vlcsnap-2011-03-30-16h26m46s158.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
As far as I can tell, it has a stamped upper and lower receiver, folding stock, ported gas tube, slanted muzzle and open front sights. I can't find a variant on this page that fits, so is this a franken-gun, or something not listed here? Also ,the gun does actually fire blanks so it isn't an airsoft gun or replica. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:34, 30 March 2011 (CDT)

Looks like a AKMS ([http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/AK-47#AKMS]). You would have to look at receiver markings to get a more detailed description. ''Wraith''

:It's an AKMS, but yeah, it has a ported gas tube and smooth front hand guard (which are features found on the AKS-47). I would say it's an AKMS with AKS-47 parts. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:31, 31 March 2011 (CDT)

::We recently discovered a Hungarian AKM that has the AK47/Type 56 style gas tube. It's a FEG variant that was only exported to Europe and not the U.S> during the 1980s which explains why British armorers have it and American ones do not. Check out ([http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/AK-47#FEG NGM-81]). Note that nearly everyone removed the ugly factory PKM flash hider and replaced it with something more conventional. The underfolder version of this gun was called the NGV-81. :) Since the NGM-81 was built in 5.56mm only, I will investigate further if the Hungarians built any other AKS from this particular lineage, chambered in 7.62x39mm. IF so then we're in business. I will let everyone know if I find something. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:30, 1 September 2011 (CDT)
:::Thanks, did a bit of looking at other FEG variants, and it seems a pretty close match for the under-folding variant of the SA-85. Only difference I can see is the different colour hand-guards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:53, 1 September 2011 (CDT)
:::[[File:FEG SA-85.jpg|thumb|500px|none|FEG SA-85 - 7.62x39mm]]
I know this might be slightly off-topic, but the guy in that shot looks like he's wearing German flecktarn camo used by the Bundeswehr. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:35, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

Could be an AKS47 with an AKM muzzle break (is that what they're called?) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:17, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
: If it was originally an AKS it would have a milled rather than stamped receiver. Also, the front sight is of the AKM type. I agree with MT2008 that it is an AKM with some parts changed. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:00, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::It certainly looks to have been cannibalised from several; by the looks of things, the gas tube is from a different gun to the lower handguard, for a start (check out how the top and bottom of the handguard aren't anywhere near the same colour or level of wear). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:08, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Too me, it's just a AKMS with some parts (gas tube, lower handguard) from a AK-47. AK parts are mixed and matched a lot. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:28, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::::I think that statement is incorrect on the AK-47 versus AKM, if that is what you are talking about. not sure what you meant, but different AK-47 parts are interchangeable with other AK-47 guns and different AKM parts are interchangeable with other AKM guns, but the AKM Parts are NOT easily interchangeable with the AK-47. Though it can happen and has, it's a hassle. If you use the AK-47/Type 56 style gas tube with the gas relief holes in it, you CANNOT use the AKM gas block (which has the gas relief holes in it's tube ring). You have to use the solid AK-47/Type 56 style gas block in order for the gun to cycle. Also the gas tube of the AK-47 doesn't fit the AKM (unless a gunsmiths does a lot of modifying). I know, I've tried and without changing, milling, grinding or welding the items, they just don't fit into each other at all. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:01, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Okay, I see. Thank you for the brain nourishment. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:34, 1 September 2011 (CDT)

==Question about AK Part==

I was wondering, what's the thin metal tube that runs ''underneath'' the barrel of AK-series rifles called? I know it's not part of the gas system, as that's on top and the weapon still seems to be able to operate without it. Any help figuring this out would be appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:58, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

:That's the cleaning rod. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:23, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

== What do you guys think? ==

Last week, I was watching a Youtube video of a German WWII re-enactor firing an STG-44. I decided to post a comment: "The AK's Grandfather", and got multiple thumbs up (not really important, except for what happened later). What happend was I got some comments some saying things along the lines of:

1. You should have wrote AK's FATHER since there was no inbetween model.

2. Kalashnikov didn't look at the STG at ALL when designing the AK.

And then I got this: "@1Morey The MP44 most know by CoD fags as STG 44 was a good weapon, the problem is that it reached the warfare in 1945 basicly in the end of the war, so it was a failure, and the russians made the Ak years after. The Ak 47 was a failure too, it was just for military and it was on function only 1 year, then they made the Akm 47 wich alot of cod fags confuses it with the Ak 47. Please, seriously, do some research, Sorry for my bad english, p.s: I dont think you know too much about guns." - quoted by Andre232323232332323.

What do you guys think. It really seems to contradict everything I have read about the AK, and as far as I know, there is no such thing as the "AKM-47", I have heard of AK-47 and AKM, but not a AKM-47. I'm guessing this youtuber is whacked. I just want to know what you think. - [[User:1morey]] December 3, 2011 10:28 PM (EST)

Just an idiot who over uses the word "Codfag" and thinks he knows alot about firearms---P226 22:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-25T01:00:58Z

P226: /* Delta Force Weapons */

See [[Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

== KSG ==

Kinda surprised it never appears in singleplayer since it's supposed to be one of the "gimmick" guns for this game, has anyone seen one anywhere? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:07, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::Right now it's still in production. It was apparently a HUGE hit at the 2011 SHOT Show, however on the downside Kel-Tec is a pretty small manufacturer who happens to make pretty popular products, and that results in some pretty severe backlogging. I think they are planning on releasing it in early 2012 last I heard. The best part though is it's supposedly not going to be that expensive! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 18:14, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::: This gun is out now! It's going for between $650 and $800 depending on where you shop. I found 6 different places selling it by putting a simple search into Google. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

I think he meant in the game, but that's good news too!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:22, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I did. And now I've got one, I get to discover they got literally ''everything'' about it wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:22, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Do tell :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:42, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::: LOL ooooooops! I haven't found the gun in single player, but I didn't do much searching either. But yea it's so messed up in the game (multiplayer). First, it's not a continuous fire shotgun. You get 7, then have to manually switch (not exactly sure how) to the other tube which holds another 7. Second, for being a 12 gauge, the damage is absurdly low. It took me an average of 3 torso hits to kill someone. Also, you would think they would give this shotgun to have slugs in one tube, and buckshot in the other! After all, that was the main idea behind the gun! Instant ammo switching or a lot of ammo in a compact package! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Way to ruin an awesome gun!!! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:00, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::In Survival it's 12 rounds and it's just treated as a standard shotgun; no switching tube mags. It's more or less just a crappier version of the Striker with even less damage and slow pump rather than semi-auto. Everything I've read implies it's 12 in multi too, which as I said on the page would only be true if it were using 3" shells; since it damages like it's using 1 1/2" shells loaded with sand, I'm just writing that up as an error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:08, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Mk 14 ==

on the pic Price's Mk 14 has a CTR stock so it is a Mod 1 --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:20, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Soap's M1911 ==
In the pic of his holster, that's not a 1911. Looks like an M9, by the grips and slide safety groove. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:03, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== reload animations ==

A lot of the reloads are still carried from the previous games but what baffles me is there are plenty of guns that have a cocking handle on the left side and even some are the same gun like the MG36 and the G36 but both cock the charging handle from different sides. I was hoping the ACR would changed, but nothing really changed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Beefed up gun sounds ==

I am really liking the beefed up gun shots in this game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)
::Lol... Everything but the ARs have good sounds, and everyone else's gunfire sounds great (ie. your standing next to them). Now I'll admit I'm only about 1/2 way through the ranking so I don't have all of the guns unlocked, so I don't know what some of the later guns sound like. I will say though, the Dragunov gunshot is incredible. I mean like 100% dead on. The L118 is the right sound, BUT NOT LOUD ENOUGH!!! That gunshot should be teeth rattling! The Barrett M107 is the same way; right but not loud enough! I just cope with it by cranking the volume when no one's home :D --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:36, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Actually, this was one of the things I really ''didn't'' like in this game, they all sound like they were made on a computer as opposed to being recorded. Think of the M200 in MW2, and a few others, they sound like, well, it's hard to describe, but something like metal hitting against metal? I dunno, but the Desert Eagle's sound in this is very bad compared to COD4 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::::That's what I think the Assault Rifles and quite a few LMGs sound like. They finally fixed the pistols and sniper rifle's sounds, but totally messed up the others! What the heck? --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 14:50, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== Overall thoughts on the game ==
To be honest folks, this game turned out really good in the end. The gameplay doesn't feel as noobified like the last game was, the graphics, game engine and gameplay is more sharper and cleaner this time around as opposed to the glitches and bugs in second game, the multiplayer isn't so bland, the SpecOps feel more polished and fun, and the game's story explained a whole lot more stuff to the overall plot than Modern Warfare 2 did, and it left it on a more appropriate closure to the series. All in all, a good game. Maybe it's nothing groundbreaking in the "realism" factor (We'll leave that to Battlefield), but it still turned out to be a damn good game, and definitely worth the price. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:42, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::After watching the whole Singleplayer playthrough, and some MP stuff too, I agree. While (to me) it doesn't beat MW1, it sure is better than MW2 and BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)
:Modern Warfare 3 had the gameplay of Modern Warfare 2, but has more-balanced multiplayer content (though the multiplayer is obviously borrowed from Modern Warfare 2), gameplay, perks, satisfying story with clear parts (unlike Modern Warfare 2, which had a muddled plot), and like everyone said, realistic gun sounds. Even though it is not as successful or good as the older Call of Duty games and the other modern FPS games, it is overall the best video game set during modern times. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:33, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Well, it being the best modern shooter is your opinion, and I'm certainly not trying to say that it's ''wrong'', but for me MW1 and BF3 both take the that title. I agree with your summary though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:21, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:We need more MOH up in here.-protoAuthor 18:52, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== MP5K? ==

Is there actually an MP5K in the game, or is this just an MP5A2 that someone misidentified ages ago? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:32, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:No, that is actually an MP5K (you can see the name on the right is "MP5K holographic," and the hold is with the PC's thumb covering more of the rail, implying it's shorter), it was just cut from the final game. It's quite likely that when the dev console codes come out you'll be able to call it up in singleplayer with a "give" cheat. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:45, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::As we all know a lot of things in Call of Duty games are copy-pasted from previous ones, and since what we see of the K looks identical to the MW3 MP5, and we can see the reload animation is copy-pasted from the MW2 K, so I'm betting they copy-pasted the whole gun, changed the model, but didn't change the name til after that video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:26, 12 November 2011 (CST)
:::This MP5K (if that is what it is, am still not 101% convinced) isn't the one from MW2 as has different rail system and a solid butt. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:40, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::::You misunderstood, the MW3 MP5K we're looking at, and the normal MP5 in MW3 look the same. The game files for the MP5K were brought over from MW2, and it was given a new model and name, but the name hadn't been changed yet as of the video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:::::I don't think so, the one labelled as an MP5K looks shorter. Edit: Actually, looking at the Spec-Ops trailer and my own caps you might be right, it's the MW3 MP5 but he's holding it like it's an MP5K because it doesn't have new hand positions yet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:35, 12 November 2011 (CST)

== RSASS Secondary Sight on the Wrong Side ==

Has anybody else noticed that the red dot secondary sight is mounted in the wrong (left) side? If your holding the gun as a rightie, than it needs to be on the right side so that the hand holding the pistol grip just has to twist outwards. With it being on the left side, you have to twist your hand inwards to be able to look through the sight, and between a pistol grip in the gut, no stock surface on your shoulder, a magazine getting in the way of your support hand, and a 100% unnatural face angle, it ain't happening. But what else is new. Go figure. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)

:You'd think you'd just put it on the top or side of the scope, regardless. But the left hold kinda works if you're willing to stick your "wing" right out for it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:16, 13 November 2011 (CST)

::I noticed that too but I just figured they wanted the player to see it. Even though it's wrong, I think it's still cool that they tried it. reminds me of Jerry Miculek doing a 3 gun match.--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 20:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::That's probably it, and also probably the reason for some other subtle reasons such as the Pechang LMG feeding from the wrong side and so on. I personally know that if I couldn't see it in game, I probably would forget about it. They pretty much dropped realism for gameplay. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 20:25, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Barrett ==

Price used an M82A1 in Pripyat as the M107 wasn't even developed 15 years before 2011. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:30, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Oh, whoops. Although a weapon not being invented yet has historically never been a problem for this series, you know. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:43, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::CoughBlackOpsCough..... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:53, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::OMFG, is that a suppressed RSASS between the two RPG's? In '96? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:34, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::See? SEE?! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:CoD... CoD... -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:02, 15 November 2011 (CST)

Also, the helicopter flying past is an Mi-28N (round ball above the rotor), which wasn't delivered until 2006. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Exactly. I recently updated CoD4:MW's main page about that issue. But something else I would like to know if in anyway, is it matter if Price used the M82A1 rather than the L96, even though the British Army does using the M82A1? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:24, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::The range involved, you'd be pushing things with just a 7.62. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

:::Ah, okay. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::Back then a Barrett M82A1 would be the correct weapon for an SAS sniper at long range. Although the M82A1 is still in the British army inventory, The AW50F tends to be favoured nowadays by both special forces and regulars (mainly EOD and anti material), so this weapon choice is chronologically correct although I think this is purely by accident. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Sigh, RSASSs... At least the weapons in the two flashback missions were close to being right, at most a couple years too early, but these? Really? Of all the guns they could have picked for that scene :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:To give Blops one point, the framing device does add some scope for ridiculous weapons (the action is being recounted by a man who's half dead, dosed up to the eyeballs on drugs and being tortured), though that in turn raises the question of why the interrogator is apparently letting him describe exactly how he shot every single person. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:02, 18 November 2011 (CST)

==EOTech XPS Logo==
There's nothing ridiculous about it, it actually ''is'' that big. [http://webyshops.com/ns/images/EOTech/EOTech-EXPS2-2-Holographic-Sight-2-dot-Ballistic-Reticle-with-3X-Magnifier-and-FTS-Mount-Flipped-View-MPO-III-Pic1.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:59, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Actually, there's still something ridiculous about that. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:12, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::How come? It's the same one. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:33, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Because it's ridiculous in real life too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Minigun ==

Are we sure it's Dillon Aero rather than Garwood Industries' [http://www.garwoodindustries.com/proddetail.php?prod=M-134G M-134G]? I can't find a Dillon with that top-mounted RIS rail, but Garwood's one has it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:44, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:If you go onto YouTube, you can find people shooting Dillon Aero miniguns with rails. It's more of an aftermarket thing, but they are out there. I'm also not sure why you wouldn't be able to find a photo, as 95% of handheld military arms have rails on them. Since the adoption of the M16A3/A4, rails have become pretty much standard on everything that might remotely need a sight. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:45, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, I meant I couldn't find a base model on their site with rails. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:06, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::Oh well you likely won't find one then. What is likely though, is the gun is probably drilled and tapped for the rail and shipped with filler screws, so that whoever receives the gun can add a rail if they want to. It's a pretty common practice on a lot of rifles. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:23, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::I wouldn't worry too much about the rail, as it is mounted in the wrong place anyway. Any sight rail I have seen on a minigun has been mounted to the yoke rather than to the gun body itself. Regardless, from the slotted flash suppressor the closest match is a GAU-17/A, which incidentally also has a sight rail. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::[[File:GAU-17A HH60.jpg|thumb|400px|none|GAU-17/A mounted on an HH-60H Seahawk - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
::::Looking at the screencaps again, just noticed that although it has the barrel assembly of a GAU-17/A it has dome Dillon parts, including the spade grips, the gun drive motor and gun control unit. Also, when you fire the gun, does the character press down with his thumbs, because this is what it looks like in the screenshot. If so, I think that this is incorrect as the fire buttons are on the GCU and the buttons on top of the spade grips can be optionally wired up to activate things like lasers or illuminators, or to deploy flares and chaff. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:16, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Yes. He rests his thumbs together in the middle when not firing, that's "firing" even though you can't see a muzzle flash in that shot. But looking at Dillon's site, the wording implies that those switches can be used for other functions ''or'' as triggers, so it might not be wrong, just weird. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::The trigger on these things can be a number of different options. I've seen a butterfly trigger with 2 toggle switches (one for power, the other for rate of fire) and I have seen ones with a power toggle switch and two button triggers, both firing the the weapon but each at different rates of fire. These guns are built to order, so all that's shown on the website is a base model. Extra features can be had when someone orders it.

::::::The rail is next to useless anyway though, because the gun is intended to be walked onto target. You start firing in the general direction, then move the gun onto target by watching the tracers (every 4th or 5th round). This makes red dot sights and most lasers pretty much worthless.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 10:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Well, the rail's always empty in CoD, so they might have actually got something right there. It's just there under the Black theory that adding a RIS rail makes any gun 30% better (the average gun in Black is thus roughly 270% better). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::LOL In the shooting community here, rails are super popular among people, but they add weight onto guns REALLY fast. Taking an AR-15 and switching out a normal handguard to a quad rail immediately adds on 8-20 ounces of weight (depending on rail length). Factor in grips, lights, and lasers, it gets heavy way too fast!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:08, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::::::And of course the 37mm flare launcher that you tell everyone is an M203, that's a vital part of every ridiculous range toy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::::Pah those things are really cool but ridiculously heavy. They are quite a bit of fun at night though!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:30, 16 November 2011 (CST)
I don't think those top thumb switches can be configured to fire the gun, as don't think there is an "input" into the GCU other than the main power supply. There is one plug I'm not 100% sure about, but when looking at pictures if it is attached it always goes away from the gun, possibly it is the power supply to the ammo booster if fitted but don't know. As for the rail thing, the one time a sight is handy is if you want to fire a warning shot across something, as would be a bit embarrassing to start firing and mince the target accidentally because you judged it slightly wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:Ok 1st, I don't think anyone on earth would fire a warning shot with a minigun. That just seems stupid beyond belief. Another reason a sight is worthless is because it doesn't take into account windage, lead, and bullet drop, especially if moving. These are all things you have to eyeball in order to make a hit.
:As for those switches, they can. It's all about how the manufacturer sends the gun out and simple electronics. Just like I could wire up all the lights in the house to be turned on with a timer or from my car, but there's just no reason to do so. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::I am only talking about the Dillon M134D, how other manufacturer set up their fire control group is up to them, but the spade grips here are for a Dillon. The GCU has 1 input and 2 or 3 outputs. Input is main power to the gun, first two outputs are for the motor and the clutch, and the third, if connected, goes away from the gun, my guess to the ammunition booster but not 100%.
::Warning shot from a minigun is not stupid, I have done it a couple of times to discourage fast boats getting a bit too close to where they shouldn't be, and it works pretty damn well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:07, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Fun fact ==

This screenshot

[[Image:MW3-Magnum-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Is actually ''impossible'' to get using Steam's screenshot feature, since it won't take shots during that part of the intro (loading, I guess). In the end I had to use FRAPS. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:25, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Glock 18C/Glock 17 hybrid? ==

I couldn't find a good picture to verify currectly, but even so the developers remembered to add a fire selector switch this time, let's not forget that the really really actual Glock 18C has compensator cuts on both the slider and barrel, in order to reduce the recoil (if I'm not mistaken).

[[Image:MW3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Undeterred by this, he's soon using his Glock to blow a Russian patrol boat in half. One-handed, no less.]]

If you open the picture above in a new tab, zoom in and look closely on the slider, there are no compensator cuts. Could this be, still, the same covereted-full-auto-fire Glock 17 model from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'', only with a fire selector switch? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 07:41, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:It is a Glock 18 not the 18C. Whoever wrote the "C" was wrong. Real G18C can be seen in [[GRAW]] for example. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:22, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:: +1 for the normal Glock 18. The C stands for compensator, and since it doesn't have one, It won't be a Glock 18C, just a normal Glock 18.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:00, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::Okay, guys, thanks for answering that :) --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:58, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Just noticed, they have put the fire selector on backwards. WTF is wrong with these people, it takes conscious effort to make some of these mistakes. It's like they just mess with stuff for the hell of it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:09, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:It's a little hard to tell, but it looks like it's on correctly. But as a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if they read these entries and switch stuff last minute just to mess with us lol...
:A side note that I noticed: The Glock 18 has way to little recoil for being uncompensated. The compensator removes about 1/2 the muzzle climb, however for being uncompensated and full auto, it really doesn't seem to have that much recoil.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:29, 17 November 2011 (CST)
::In the above image you can see the "pointer" on the fire selector, which is pointing backwards (If you zoom in you can see part of the circle of the selector above the straight "pointer" part which you wouldn't see if it was pointing forwards correctly). On a real Glock 18 the two positions are both forwards (up for semi down for auto). An easier way to see that it is wrong is in the create a class menu:
::[[File:Weapon g18 large.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
::The serrations are in the wrong place due to this, and the selector is too far back as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:06, 17 November 2011 (CST)
Gotchya. I wasn't sure if in the photo it was the pointer or a shadow, but I see it now. Go figure...--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:28, 17 November 2011 (CST)

::Also the magazine is shorter than an actual 31/33 round magazine, but it's still too long for a 20 rounder, 19-round mags (17-round Glock mag with a +2 base plate) are flush fitting. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:21, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== HD Screenshots from the MW3 Commercial ==

Here's some screenshots from the MW3 Commercial starring [[Sam Worthington]] and [[Jonah Hill]]:
[[File:MW3Com 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Vet ([[Sam Worthington]]) loads up his ACR during the opening battle in New York City.]]
[[File:MW3Com 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Vet then switches to his dual Skorpions during the first engagement.]]
[[File:MW3Com 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the battle in Germany, The n00b aims an RPG-7 at an enemy sniper, as The Vet looks on in disbelief at such a choice.]]
^That one makes me laugh my ass off every time I look at it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:41, 22 November 2011 (CST)
[[File:MW3Com 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b now shows off the skills he's learned from The Vet.]]

It might be a good idea to give this its own subheading (or even sub-page, there's a lot of weapons in the trailer). Usually we cover guns that appear in trailers and previews, but it's rather unique for a game trailer to have so many real weapons in it, and it'd look weird shoehorning shots from this trailer into the main page's gun entries. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:28, 18 November 2011 (CST)
:Here's some more screenshots from the same commercial. Note that I accidentally uploaded an existing screenshot. The following weapons appear in the commercial: FN SCAR-L, Czech Skorpions, RPG-7, M67 grenade, Barret M82, 9-Bang, M4A1 Carbine, M1911 and its modern variants, AKMS, Remington RSASS, M60E4, M16A2, and the M203 launcher. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:56, 18 November 2011 (CST)
::Actually, that "SCAR-L" is an ACR. :\ BTW, I just love this commercial for some reason. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Seeing Sam Worthington in it just feels weird, since he's the star of BO. Do you think it was a dig at Treyarch? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:57, 22 November 2011 (CST)
::::Well, the rules on IMFDB state that commercials are not allowed to have their own pages. But maybe these screenshots can have their own section on the bottom of the Modern Warfare 3 main page as a "trivia special"? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 01:58, 23 November 2011 (CST)
:::::The thing is while commercials are not allowed, ''trailers'' usually are allowed on the main page. I think in this very unusual case this trailer has enough guns to warrant a page of it's own. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:52, 23 November 2011 (CST)
::::::Hmm... that would be nice to see a page about this trailer on here. But then again, we'd probably have other people complaining that it would be our obligation to also include pages for the live action trailer for Call of Duty: Black Ops, the Black Ops Zombies trailer and the Rezurrection expansion pack trailer. Personally I say put all these screenshots on the bottom of the Modern Warfare 3 page as a "trivia special", and if someone wants to add screenshots from the live action trailers for Black Ops and it's expansions, then I agree on the same deal; putting them on the bottom of the main page as a "trivia special" --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 07:36, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:::::::Naw, if you actually did the gun IDs properly for this trailer it'd be about the same size as the actual page. I think for this a sub-page is probably the best bet. And to be honest, if someone wanted to make the three pages you mention, I'd say the same would apply (and as to complaining, the standard "make it yourself if you want it done so bad" response would be fine). It's not like this is going to be a huge issue with games companies suddenly ''all'' having live action trailers with loads of guns in them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:MW3Noob-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b ([[Jonah Hill]]) realizes the mistake he's just made in pulling the pin from his M67 grenade prematurely in the opening battle in New York City.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Vet draws his dual Skorpions. Interestingly, there are no holsters for these weapons. So how he keeps them holstered on his back is unknown.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Vet now stares down at an attacking Mil-24 "Hind" helicopter...]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and dodges an incoming missile from the "Hind".]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b charges onto the war-torn New York City streets in typical n00b fashion; spraying from the hip and yelling a war-cry like you're Arnold Schwarzenegger.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unfortunately, The n00b forgot about one thing; watch out for hidden landmines!]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b and The Vet sneak up on the enemy sniper during the battle in Germany.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Watch, and learn!" The Vet once again tries to show The n00b how to prepare for combat properly during the battle in Paris.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b learns what it's like to fight in zero gravity in a recreation of the mission "Turbulence".]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Take a break big dog, I got this!" The n00b prepares to show that he's proven his worth on the battlefield.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the battle in New York City, The n00b switches from his ACR to his M1911. Smart choice. Not bad for a n00b!]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b fires his M1911.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b and The Vet walk side-by-side on the battlefield, as the trailer's tagline appears on the screen.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another n00b ([[Dwight Howard]]) comes onto the battlefield, displaying the typical n00b mannerisms.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b whoops with joy after spraying the battlefield with his M16A2/M203 combo.]]

== I can't be the only one ==

[[image:CODBO-TDIVector.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Whenever I look at this image I feel an urgent need to photoshop Bill and Ted in either side of him and add the caption "EXCELLENT!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:34, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Lolz. X) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Hahaha!! :D Nice one!! - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:44, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Colt License ==
Did Colt have a licensing agreement with MW3, as well because if you look at the charging handle of the CM901, it has the Colt logo printed on it. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:49, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:I've got an image of the thanks section from the credits which includes everyone who advertised, I'll post it up when I get home. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::Cool, thanks man. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:MW3-Thanksto-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

"Colt Defense LLC." Oddities include thanking "Desert Eagle" ''and'' Magnum Research, Barrett ''and'' Barrett Rifles, and that they got help from Degroat, a company that refurbishes miniguns; I guess explaining why they're GAU-17/As with Dillon bits. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:31, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:I find it amazing that the developers actually included '''Bobby Kotick''' in the special thanks section. -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::"Thanks for not firing us yet!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Kevin Smith? The director? [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:43, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== M4A1 20 round magazine ==

I find it funny that they model 30 round magazines on the M16A4, but model 20 round mags on the M4A1 with a 30 round capacity, judging by this picture below, they look like straight 30 round mags instead of curved.
[[Image:MW3-M4-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Master Sergeant "Sandman" prepares to throw a magazine to Westbrook at the very start of the game.]]
--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]
:I don't think straight 30 round STANAG magazines exist. However, there were straight 25 round magazine in the early days of the M16 that are about this length, but they are rare as hens' teeth these days and would doubt that is what the developers intended. Think it is more likely that they just modelled it wrong deliberately or accidentally. They probably liked the aesthetic of a straight magazine, but a corect length 20 round would have looked conspicuously short compared to the other rifles in the game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:10, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm more inclined to say it's an oversized straight magazine than a rare one (it could also be an M4 adapted to use FAMAS F1 mags, if we're being silly). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:19, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::There ''are'' 30 round straight STANAG magazines out there, however they are extremely rare and also unreliable because the follower tends to hang up with the magazine frame. I have seen '''maybe''' 3 of them in my 16 years of working with guns, including on the internet. The mags in the picture however are too short to be them, and they are most certainly 20 rounders. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:59, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::If you compare them to the pistol grip they're ''slightly'' too long to be 20 rounders, too, they're sorta halfway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:04, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Well that's kinda because the grip is at the wrong angle too... lol Go to my page and look at the AR-15 I have up and you'll see that the grip here is angled too far backwards, which may be part of the problem... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:15, 22 November 2011 (CST)
::::::Do you have any links to pics of 30 round straight magazines, as have never seen one. I thought the 30 round magazine were always curved, but the original ones had a shallower, constant curve rather than the subsequent ones which are straight inside the magazine well, with a more sever curve underneath. Regardless of the grip angle, the 20 round magazine is too long:
::::::[[File:COD MW3 M4A1 class.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
::::::compare to this:
::::::[[File:ColtAR-15A3TacticalCarbine.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
::::::It also lacks the M4 profile barrel, and that flash hider is ridiculous, almost looks like a non-gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:07, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Ok here is a prototype that I have had on my files for a while.

[[File:30 round straight AR mag.jpg|300px]]

It lacks the cutout for the normal mag catch because it was designed for another gun (can't remember exactly what). Those 30 round straight mags may very well be converted magazines for other mags done before AR mags were widely available. Also, the grip angle looked worse in the in-game photo than the game picture of the gun. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:27, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:Ok upon doing further research here that magazine is actually a FAL magazine. Oops! I can't find any pictures on Gunbroker because once they archive their auctions you can't go back and get the pictures. Grrr... Sorry to let you down guys. Some research I found though was that the curve was given because of reliability issues found back with the original M16, therefore any 30 round straight magazines are going to be collector items and very rare. Just interesting... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::The grip is probably at least in part due to perspective. The picture Commando posted does look to be a static render of the same in-world gun model that Sandman is carrying, it's just that one's tilted towards us while the one in my pic is tilted away. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:39, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Did anyone notice the gas piston block on top of the receiver? Look at the rear sight, then look forward a millimeter. It's obviously not a removable riser which leads me to the conclusion that it must have been modeled after an M4 with a gas piston operated upper receiver. Hmmm... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:48, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:It's fairly well documented that their primary references are usually Airsoft guns, so it could be anything. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:53, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I don't think it is based on a piston gun. The raised flat top looks more like it is due to a riser as it looks very "bitty" and slapped on top (looks a bit like the back end of whatever you call those rail systems that clamp onto the flat-top, SIR?). Also, it has a regular handguard slip ring, which I don't think you could have as it wouldn't leave enough room for the piston. The handguard itself is pretty screwed up as well, with 5 large cooling holes along the top, but 7 smaller ones along the bottom, the rail along the bottom is totally flat, and along the side isn't a rail at all, but rather a series of hollow loops much further apart than the ridges on a rail. It looks like a complete frankengun monstrosity. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:14, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I agree, the riser looks like the rear part of MW2's RIS. And this RIS is the single worst RIS I have EVER seen, in so many ways. Also, it's funny you'd use a picture of an AR-15A3, as that's the "M4A1" in COD4 :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:24, 22 November 2011 (CST)

== Delta Force Weapons ==

Anyone else annoyed at the weapons used by the AI Delta Force members? Besides the issue of the 20 RD mags on the M4s, Delta is one of the most advanced spec ops teams in the world and better funded than most units within the military, but none of the AI's guns have any sort of attachment besides M203s. You'd think that if by now basic infantry in real life has optics on their guns, then an elite team like Delta would have ACOG's or Eotechs on all of their guns in a game set in 2016.--[[User:James Woods|James Woods]] 16:27, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:And Desert Eagles... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:28, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::Also seen in the hands of other SF Units and Russian [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigBad Big Bads] [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Eagle through the series]... It's like, seriously! D:< --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:18, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:I just was researching Delta Force. I saw alot of pictures were operators had just a normal iron sighted M4 with an M203. Literally, only two of the multiple pictures i saw, they had no optics other than an m203.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

::As they should. I would, there's nothing wrong with ironsights, it's just nowadays everyone wants a reflex sight on everything. I wouldn't want anything electronic on ''my'' gun. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:20, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::They probably don't want to be caught out by an EMP again. Seriously though, unless they are trying to keep a low profile by using indigenous weapons, special forces these days would likely have gadgets. Why would they penalise themselves by not giving themselves every possible advantage? To analogise to British SAS, when they are not trying to look like conventional forces, I have seen them using C8s with silencers, AN/PEQ-2s, flashlights, vertical grips, ACOGs, coupled magazines, P226 pistols with crimson trace grips and AN/PVS-21 goggles. I would imagine it vary much depends on the mission though, but I think I have only ever seen iron sights on a British C8 once, and that was on Salisbury plane. All of this is British rather than Delta force though, but I would imagine they would carry the same number of (if not more) gadgets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:29, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::That's what back-up iron sights (BIS) are for in addition to your optics. Most people have them in case their battery dies or the optics breaks...or in this case an EMP knocks them out. The D-boys should definitely not just be iron sighting it--[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 23:48, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::Indeed, where are the laser sights and tactical flashlights? SF firearms look so barebones without them :\
::::At least, vertical forward grips are on. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:18, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:The actual answer to this is a combination of resources (putting scopes on everyone's weapons would be more objects in the game world, this would be especially bad when they're chucking an infinite good guy respawn at an infinite bad guy respawn until the player kills some guys) and gameplay (players who see their teammates with cool-looking guns would hang back and wait for them to get killed so they can snag them). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:56, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Don't most units of Delta use HK 416's, weren't they the first ones to use it too?---P226 19:00, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== Two USPs ==

First, sorry for my bad english! In Tha name "USP.45 Tactical Suppressed", the "Tactical" part refers to the tacticl knife, NOT the USP Tactical.the normal "USP .45" in the game has a threaded barrel too. Look at the C-A-C icon of USP on codwiki if yu don't believe. The 2 USP sections shuold be merged to become 1. --Paul, bozitojugg3nut's brother

:Good point, though it should still be noted that there are two very different USP textures. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:17, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::No they shouldn't.

::[[Image:MW3-USP-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Standard USP. Slide wording "(front cocking serration) USP .45 Auto." Has no visible projecting barrel. This is a USP 45, and the model is more or less lifted straight from the previous game.]]

::[[Image:MW3-USPTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|USP Tactical model. Slide says "USP Tactical .45 Auto," barrel projects forward of the front of the slide. This is a USP Tactical.]]

::They are two distinct models, not just retextures of one. The confusion arises because the C-A-C image is of the Tactical version, even though it says it isn't (you'll notice the C-A-C icon on CoDwiki also has the Tactical model's underbarrel accessory, not the USP 45's, because it is not the USP 45 model), and because the Tactical version is just called USP 45 except the one time Burns uses it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:00, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::Does the regular USP also have no bullets in the magazine, whereas the Tactical does? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:33, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:53, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/ Because we suck. And HK hates us.] xD -- Long Fallen 04:44, 24 November 2011 (CST)

:I think my retarded brother is right this time:
:[[Image:MW3-0000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:And to respond to the upper image where the pistol is being reloaded on the ship or what that is: it HAS a visible projecting barrel (not on that image tho). I asked my bro to play the level where you run around in a gas mask in Paris. In better lighting conditions, the threaded barrel is perfectly visible on the 1st person model too.
:And for the last, the article says that the USP45 is ''using almost exactly the same model as the previous game''. ''EVERY'' USP in ''EVERY'' COD game has a threaded barrel. Now I am gone to kick Paul's ass for using my account and giving me a bad name (again). - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:18, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::You're forgetting that in-world and player-held models are not the same (and can sometimes be entirely seperate weapons as a result). Here's an angle-for-angle comparison of the player models:
::[[Image:MW3-Nottactical.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Standard USP. Slide wording "(front cocking serration) USP .45 Auto." Has ''very slightly'' visible projecting barrel (it isn't "perfectly" visible or really visible at all outside taking stills no matter what you do). This is a USP 45, and the model is more or less lifted straight from the previous game.]]
::[[Image:MW3-USPTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|USP Tactical model. Slide says "USP Tactical .45 Auto," has ''highly'' visible (and therefore longer) projecting barrel. This is a USP Tactical.]]
::As for being recycled, the USP model is. It also has the same LAM / light (the COD 4 model used a square Mark 23 style LAM, not this diagonal one), the same cocking serration replacing the HK logo, etc. The new one has a longer barrel and correctly calls itself a USP Tactical on the slide, while the original is just a malformed USP. The new model also has different sights (check the rear sight in particular), it's ''not'' just a straight-up retexture of the same model. They are therefore two different guns. The only retexture is Tactical Suppressed, which has an HK logo on the grip when the basic Tactical model doesn't.
::[[Image:Akimbo_usp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MW2 USPs. Note the same LAM as the MW3 version, same sights, HK logo replaced with a cocking serration, etc.]]
::Let me just break this down:
::*Someone decided they needed a new USP model.
::*They made a new USP model which has features correct for a Tactical, and slide engraving saying it's a Tactical.
::*They decided to use the old MW2 USP model as well for no good reason.
::*They decided to call both the USP 45, also for no good reason.
::Hence, there are two gun models, the old mutant USP and the new Tactical. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::My bad Tim, you're right. That's what I get for trying to ID guns at 2 in the morning :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:28, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

2011-11-19T18:37:52Z

P226: /* Question about apparel? */

For older discussions see [[Talk:Modern Warfare 2/Archive 1]]

__TOC__

= MP5K or PDW? =

Y'know, if you take a look at the MP5K's barrel, it actually extends out PAST the front sight post. Wouldn't this make it a PDW sans Folding Stock? [[user:gamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]
:An MP5K PDW is just an MP5K with a folding stock, so I think it's labeled correctly. The extended barrel is just there to mount a suppressor (as does happen in the game) and can be put on any MP5K. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:55, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::Not it isn't, regular MP5K doesn't have the lugged/extended barrel. The only production MP5K variant with barrel lugs and no stock is the MP5K-N (picture labelled on the MP5 page as an MP5KN is not it, that is just an MP5K with Navy trigger group). However, as the name implies it should have a Navy trigger group, and as this has an SEF one, then this gun is an MP5K fitted with the barrel from an MP5K-N/MP5K-PDW. Also when optics are fitted technically it turns into an MP5KA1, as the rear sight can't be removed from a regular MP5K like they are on this gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Question about apparel? ==

What kind of Jacket is Roach and Ghost wereing during loose ends? I'v seen jackets like the Condor Sierra Fleece but it doesn't come in gray. Heres an example

[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/071031-M-3197S-023.jpg

:The closest thing to it I'm aware of is a [http://www.tripleaughtdesign.com/Apparel/Jackets/Ranger-Hoodie TAD Ranger Hoodie]. I think the one in the game is either an earlier generation, or messed around with slightly. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:16, 18 November 2011 (CST)

Thanks man :)---P226 12:37, 19 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

2011-11-19T18:37:31Z

P226: /* Question about apparel? */

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

2011-11-18T03:34:24Z

P226: /* Question about apparel? */ new section

Talk:CZ 75

2010-12-05T16:51:22Z

P226: /* Just wondering? */ new section

==availability==
:I can't find one of these bastards anywhere-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:09, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

:: Do you have any Academy sporting good stores where you are? The one where I am sells the CZ 75B. Actually got to handle one, nice ergonomics on it. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:27, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

:They only sell Sigs, Glocks, Taurus' and Saturday Night Special type guns-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 05:51, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

:: The one here sells Glock, Taurus, Springfield Armory, Ruger, Beretta, Remington, Browning, Mossberg, NAA, CZ, and a few more obscure manufacturers I didn't recognize and can't recall. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 11:58, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

:The day I get enough money I am going out to try and find one-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
:I went to Academy today and to my horror, the only CZ 75's they sell are those ugly SP-01's-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:04, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm tryin to find a picture of a certain CZ handgun, It resembles the 75(as most of them do) but it's a more compact size. It has a more square shaped body. It has a more square-like trigger guard frame and an accessory rail. I believe it's a .380 cartridge. If any one can help me out that'd be great.

The CZ100 is more square. It comes in 9mm and 40S&W. I believe it is discontinued.

or new CZ P-07 Duty [http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/79-pistols-cz/PC/CZ_75_P-07_DUTY.aspx] --[[User:Jakub225|Jakub225]] 11:31, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

== Just wondering? ==

If the CZ75 was made in Czech Republic in the 1970's(under communist Regime) how come american films and police departments were able to get there hands on them before 1993 when the Warsaw pact ended?

Out for a Kill

2010-12-04T14:14:43Z

P226: /* Type 56 */

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-11-16T20:03:51Z

P226: /* Impressions So Far? */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AK74u==

In game, it is a ak74u, not an aks74u. U=carbine S=folding stock.
The in game models are all mssing stocks, so are only an ak74u, as they are called in game. It should be noted as such, im sick of having to re change the main page and want to get this cleared up/

I don't care if there's no stock, there's no such designation as "AK-74u". Also, try unlocking the "grip" attachment for it. That adds the stock back on. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

AK74 is base model, u means shortened, s means folding stock, etc. So chopping stock off makes it a 74u

I am fully aware of what the designations mean. Find me an actual AK-74 carbine produced from the factory without the side-folder and actually labelled "AK-74u" (cannot be simply an AKS-74U with the stock detached), and I'll gladly change it back. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:16, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

It doesnt matter how it left the factory, it matters how you modify it. If you put a 4.25 inch barrel and slide on a full sized 1911 do you call it a government model or a commander? I mean its a commander model but left the factory a government.....

This isn't the Call of Duty Wiki, kid. We don't promote misinformation as fact like they do there. We refer to and classify firearms as they are in the ''real'' world, not the ''game'' world. That means referring to it by its ''actual'' name (AKS-74U, not AK-74U) and classification (carbine, not SMG). It doesn't matter what it's called in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Im trying to put the corerect designation, maybe even note there is a ak74 u and a aks74u, remember that we cant say a gun has a folding stock if it has NO stock. a 7.5 inch barreled ar with a stock is a carbine, taking the stock of its an ar pistol, not a ar stockless rifle.

But "AK-74U" is ''not'' the correct designation. Look at the [[I Am Legend]] page and you'll note that even though Will Smith's AR is modified to appear as an M4A1 in the movie, we still classify it based on what it ''came out of the factory as'', a Colt Law Enforcement Carbine. Also not that the most recent AK iterations as well as the AN-94 all have side-folding stocks, yet no "S" in their designations. Your AR "pistol" comparison also has no validity in that those so-called "pistols" all fire the same full-sized .223 cal./5.56mm ammunition and as such are pistols ''in name only''. So like HashiriyaR32 said, unless you can provide proof of an actual real life AK-74 carbine ''factory-produced'' without a folding stock and bearing the in-game designation, it stays AKS-74U. You're in the domain of the "gun nerds" and real life fact takes priority over in-game fiction. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==Accuracy of Game==
I have Black Ops and have beaten the campaign, while the missions range from 1961 to 1968 the game is LOADED with anachronisms, im not sure an alternate reality would explain for having FAMAS F1s ( ''In fact, FELIN´s'' --[[User:Werc|Werc]]) and AUG A1s in the 1960s. Also they have the M16 in Vietnam with a so-called Masterkey system on it, im not sure that they had Masterkeys in Vietnam but it looks to be an Ithaca 37 stakeout attatched to the M16, also nearly ALL of the NVA soldiers are armed with SPAS-12 which is completely wierd. Any comments from people who have played the game?
: Yeah, you are right. If this game would be atleast fun. But its boring, MP is even worse than in MW2 ( ''And MW2 had worst MP of all'' ''times'' ), SP is boring like hell. There is nothin such as AI. Storyline is boring an unoriginal. Weapons are both anachronistic and unrealistic. Nothing like kicback even on Mosin Nagant ? '''THIS GAME SUCKS, just like MW2 did''' --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Do you get a nickel from EA every time you rag on the game? And there are many things I can say about the story, but "unoriginal" is not one of them. I have yet to play another FPS where the player is mentally ill and one of the main characters is merely a hallucination. (Unless there's an "A Beautiful Mind" FPS I don't know about.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

well i enjoyed it , and if i tape a shotgun under the barrel of my M16 why cant i call it a masterkey . simmons 8492

I know that most of the weapons in the game are anachronistic and that's a little bit sad for a cold war game, but a lot of those firearms are never seen in video games, that's one thing that made me like it. Perhaps,I enjoyed the stroryline from the begining to the end, I love the Zombie mode and the multiplayer is great (at least when I play with my friends). --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 19:19, November 11 2010 (UTC)

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

It's an Intermediate rifle, like the P90 or MP7A1, slightly smaller caliber but with an effective range between a rifle's range and a sub gun's range.
:No, that is an incorrect comparison. The AK-74U is just a compact rifle since it fires an assault rifle round, not an assault rifle "styled" rifle. The P90 and the MP7 are designed from the ground up to be PDWs that fired ammo that are necked down rifle rounds instead of pistol rounds designed with the same armor piercing power as the full size rifle. It's like the Colt Model 733 or the 933 or any of the other shorten assault rifle variants. A submachine gun is always compared to weapons that fire pistol caliber ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

But weapons like the SAM-R use the same caliber as 933 and 733, 5.56x45, and the SAM-R is used as a DMR. i doubt the 5.45x39 could be a marksman rifle cartridge. even though its longer than the 5.7 or 4.6, its range and accuracy are not that of a true assault rifle.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==
Hey guys, Zombie mode on Black Ops includes 2 maps, each bringing there own unique cast of characters
-Kind Der Untoten-
-All classic Nazi Zombies Characters

-Five-
-Fidel Castro (Holding Colt Python)
-John F. Kennedy (Holding China Lake Launcher)
-Richard Nixon
-Character w/ Glasses and Suit (Forget His Name)

These maps i have not played that much but from what i have there are these weapons
-Kind Der Untoten-
-Olympia (Over & Under)
-Walther MPL
-PM-63
-MP-40
-Mystery Box (Any number of assorted weapons)

-Five-
-Olympia
-Walther MPL

-will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

its been confermed . for news hit up black ops 24/7 . they dont have 100 percent accurate weapons lists but its the best site out there

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''
Lee Enfield SMLE/ Jungle Carbine, M1 carbine, M2 carbine, SKS, Webley, Skorpion, M1 grand, RPG-2[[User:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

if anything there going to have those guns , and ruinthem buy adding rails and underbarell shit.simmons8492

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.
Some people are still saying it could be WASR-2. It's not a WASR-2. WASR-2's are new production (within the past few years) rifles from Romania made ONLY for semi-automatic use and for importation into the US. There's no way on God's green earth that the rifle in game is a WASR-2.

More than likely this is just an AK-47 with an incorrectly modeled mag. They ARE modeling these things after airsoft guns ya know.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

im not sure but with those ironsites id say a g36 . i hope they brink the one from COD4 back i loved it. simmons 8492

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

well am i the only one who thinks WAW did a horible job of represting the stoping power of the .45 . i mean the gun does nothing in the game , but in real life its a man stoper. simmons 8492

Game balance. That's why [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

i under stand but the walther is better in that game than the 1911. at least the .45 in COD4 had some good stopingpower to it . i know its a diffrent model but still . simmons 8492

and luchy for me , the boys at trayarc made the M1911A1 the manstoper that it is .SEMPER FI!!! simmons 8492

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

well the ak-74 would be good , but no one would notice the difference. most kids playing this game dont know am1911a1 from a m14 . id like to see both

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

a littel of topic but, that guy has one of the shitties grips that i have ever seen

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

i dont think he has the globe and anchor tat , but because of him im going to grow a mullet and wear a head band shhhing people. simmons8492

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

youd be suprised what i can do with one hand. simmond 8492

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Grenade launchers are balanced, mininum detonation range, slow reload, not very accurate (need to arc) only 2 rounds, and besides, use it to take down campers.

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

Yes. Confermed on callofduty.com

as lon as he goes all predator on some one like in wold at war , im fine with in, and being as that hes a soviet why is he with the us? defector or what? simmons 8492

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Not to mention it's impossible to actually fire one with live rounds. -Mandaloin

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

just for that tom jane is going to kill you with a bow and arrow. good job . and the balistic knive uses high tention (missspeled) springs, so id call it a projectial if anything. not to mension that , if you look at the rock on this site , it has the little dart shot gun that nick cage uses in the begining. simmons 8492

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

first , i had a kid tell me that the moddel 1887 is a rifel , based only on the fact that it has a lever and not a pump. i own no guns and also only pop on this site to win bets with my brother but i know that. but dose any one know if the m16 or famas have selector switches that can be changed?

Yes they do. The FAMAS can shoot on semi auto, and the M16a4 also has semi auto.[[user:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:While looking at the Create-a-class 2.0 vid shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzSImy-xm4, I found it rather odd for the choice that Treyarch was going with on the weapon selection for the pistols at the 0:23 mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to place the Makarov PM as the starting pistol because of it's weak 9x18mm cartridge? I'd personally would have liked to see it like this:

*Makarov PM
*ASP
*1911
*Colt Python
*CZ75

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

. reality and videogames are like an amish hacker , never gonna happen . this is going to be FUCKIN EPIC . simmons 8492

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

it looks like famas had a field day and fucked everything up . the pig dosent deserve that . and for all the idiots out there reading this and thinking"whats the pig, can you use farm animals as weapona" the pig is the name for the m60 , that gun hold a special place in my heart . simmons 8492

It really looks like they just took a lot of stuff from mw2 (like those god damned iron sights) and whats the deal putting Troy industries sight on an AUG? How stupid does that even look, couldnt hit shit in real life cuz there is no spacing between the front and rear post! Come on Treyarch i tough u could do better --[[User:Patrickgt|℗Λ✝r][©Κ]] 02:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/FAMAS_Felin_501556_fh000002.jpg [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

in the same video they show parts froma game called "gun game " the player swaps the M14 for the m136 . im gonna go all jessie ventura up in that bitch . simmons 8492

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::The guns don't make sense at all, not just because of the era. I mean flamethrower attachments, handheld miniguns, the same rear sight on many guns, 20-round mags holding 30 rounds, semi-auto shotguns impossibly cycling with dragonsbreath ammo. Before MW2 the Call of Duty series was known for its accuracy and attention to how the guns really work, as well as the weapons for the time periods the games take place in. And GunGunGun has a point, it's just going to be the same chaotic multiplayer as MW2, a bunch of stoners and kids making themselves feel better by corner camping, tubing, and quickscoping. Treyarch only seems to have done things to promote those playing techniques, not discourage them like they should. -Mandaloin
::: Cry some more then? It's pretty obvious that you don't like the gameplay style. There are many, MANY gamers out there that would disagree with your tastes, and those are the ones that Treyarch is aiming to please (along with those on the fence over some of MW2s perks/killstreaks which were changed for the better). So what if it's not all realistic, the key point in a video game is if it's any fun to play or not. Last I checked, I couldn't actually survive crashing a Ferrari at 100MPh at Laguna Seca either, but it is sure as hell fun to play a game that allows me to get back up and try again without it being "game over" for me. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Meh, quit complaining, it's a video game. If you want realism go play ARMA or Operation Flashpoint. It does look better than MW2, that I will say. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I just love how people can criticize a game, when yet, they haven't even played it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 21:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I just love how people keep saying that. We don't have to play it to criticize what we've already seen of it. -Mandaloin
:: Yeah, you kinda do. If you have not actually sat down and played this game, you're only assuming it's gonna be bad by just looking at it. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Medal of Honor pwns Call of Duty in every way. ''That's'' my opinion of Black Ops. Anyone who doesn't like it can go cry a river. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well whatdaya know, the one I missed. Good find. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

They are Skorpians in 9x18mm without the stocks. Looks awesome to me.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

: We've already seen what the Skorpions look like, these look alot like that OTs-02 Kiparis --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 00:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:I presume the KS-23 is likely to have heavy recoil, small capacity (3 rounds) and a delay between shots. Also can't the KS-23 also function as a Grenade launcher as well firing firing a variety of shells such as Tear Gass, Flash Bang and White Phosphorous? I would marry Treyarch if they finally added Slugs to this baby! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Draco i think your my new friend. JK. i always wondered why they never put chokes or slugs as attachments for guns in video games.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

::They have added slugs to some games. But to name few, Bad Company 2, Fallout: New Vegas and STALKER are one's that come to mind, though I don't think even the majority of game designers (save for a small collection of the minority) that know what a Choke on a shotgun even is. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a AR-18 but don't we have the full assault rifle list?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: It's not an AR-18, the recievers don't match. It looks more like the 63, although it doesn't appear to have the ventilated barrel housing. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

After actually looking at a 63, this gun looks like it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Stoner63-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stoner 63 in rifle and LMG configuration.]]
[[Image:COD7Stonerpossible.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a screencap from gameplay footage of the possible Stoner 63. Compared to the stock image I'd say it is.]] . - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reflex sights==
Just wondering about the reflex sights, were they even developed back during the periods the game is set in? Another thing I was curious about is that the M4 Spectre in the list shows it having a reflex mounted on it. While it is using a side-mount, wouldn't the stock get in the way if you try to fold/unfold it since it folds to the top of the gun?--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
: '''1,''' Yeah, i am almost sure reflex sight existed during cold war. There is even patent on internet, dating it into seventies.
: '''2,''' All SMG´s have apparently stocks removed for some reason. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Not exactly on topic==
Alright, I am having a pretty bad day with dealing all the crap my professors are throwing at me and then my roommate says something that is kinda pissing me off so I am gonna rant a little bit. Last night(this early morning actually, around 1), he decided not to do his homework and decided to watch a show about snipers and the amazing feats they pulled off including one about Hatchcock. It was pretty interesting until he ruined it after watching a sniper take out VietCongs using kentucky windage with his scoped (now busted) m14 after his helo was shot down by saying, "So what, I don't see how that is impressive, I can do that all the time in Modern Warfare 2." Now he wants to go buy Black Ops when it comes out because he wants to "pwn some noobs" and all the feature look really realistic just like in MW2. He goes on to say that he wants to become a Ranger because he thinks it is easy enough since he is smart since he was on a debate team, ran for state assembly, etc. and strong because he can do MMA and finishes that with he can drink a lot beer. I give him credit for having the balls to join the Rangers but at the same time, it feels like he is insulting them. Sorry for writing all this but I was having a shitty day and just had to let is all out and I figured it since he was talking of COD, that I would put it here. Alright, rant over, feeling much better now. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, is actual real military service gonna shit on his cereal, lets see just how easy pwning noobs is when your actually getting shot at, oh and apparently theres this thing called recoil in reality, suprising i know. Oh and no respawns either. On an actual related note this game is gonna suck, I do love the return of the 1911 to COD i just can forgive the erronious amounts of just horrendous anacronisms, and the flamethrower undermount is so retarded --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a fun idea, hand a CoD fanboy an AR-15 with the bolt locked back, hand them a magazine, and tell them to fire it. See how long it takes them to realize that the weapon isn't magically ready to fire just because you slap in a fresh magazine. You get five points for every ten seconds it takes before they realize what the bolt catch is. You get bonus points if they pull the charging handle.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 06:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Oh and pop that elusive saftey on too, just for good measure.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 09:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they would give the back stock a flat slap after loading a fresh mag and charged the gun like a real badass.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better would be actually getting through the first phase of basic to even hold a weapon.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be even more surprised to find a gamer doing a proper tactical reload, instead of letting a mag drop to the ground and becoming confused as to why it doesn't magically appear back in his pouches.

first of id slap the shit out of your roommate , the second he hit basic hes gonna be crying for mommy shitting him self , and i cant wait for the m1911 to make its return .simmons 8492

==Kinda liking the weapons list==

Well, they are things you never see in other games, although the awp and famas and spas12 can go, and id love the a1 to be full auto. But, a revovler that makes sense, old school submachine guns, a pump action grenade launcher its kind of cool.

I do wish they didn't decided the nearly the same weapons from the other MW series like the AUG, SPAS-12, or the MP5K. They could have picked other pump action shotguns like the Remington 870, or another weapon aside from the MP5K. They should have stuck with the full size MP5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do have the Ithaca 37. And at least the AUG is a rifle and not a LMG in this one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I do know most of these guns really shouldn't exist but you can believe I will have a ton of fun with the under-barrel flamethrower with a smily face reflex sight on the G11(they better not mess up the G11).--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

At this moment, I am not bothered about weapons that don't exist at the time, but more on original choices. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda of agree with you there, sorta disappointed though that they made the M16A1 burst fire in Multiplayer. Though it's hard to say exactly when all these guns appear, while yes we were told it was starting in Vietnam but IT could possibly star in other timezones too. From what I've gathered, you play as multiple characters so it's possible you could play as multiple characters in different time periods, 1 in Vietnam, another in Cold War and maybe a few fictional war zones in the early 2000's [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, it seems that original M16 without forward assist is in game. Anyway - As far as i know M16A1 fired in 3-round bursts, no ?
:::The A1 is full-auto. The A2 and A4 variants fire bursts. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 10:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont like how they use the correct 20 round mag model but make it hold 30. Hopefully the burst/30 rounds is online only, like in cod 4 where the m16 was full auto SP but burst MP.

== CZ75 ==

JUst curious, does anyone think that the CZ-75 might be the Automatic version of the weapon. Granted Treyarch wasn't going to add Machine Pistols but since it's the last handgun in the list and it costs 750 credits would it be possible? I mean Bad Company 2 had their 93R as their last unlock which was a machine pistol [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well, it doesnt have to be automatic. CZ-75 is superior to all other handguns from list in real life.( maybe besides Colt Python ) - Its better than Makarov, ASP and even M1911 in all "stats" . Its probably best 9mm handgun.

::Not too sure as to how it would be better than a .45 caliber 1911. I can see it being better than the ASP or Makarov due to their small magazines of 7-8 rounds compared to the 75's 16 (9mm). Of course it does open the slight possibility that an Automatic conversion kit is available as an attachment [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Its not just about calibre or mag capacity. CZ-75 is more accurate, bullet is faster and i think its lighter. Anyway - Its sure that heavier cartrigde is allways better :) But i would take CZ75 to combat instead of M1911.

:Maybe the developers just read a lot of Gunsmith Cats, and took Rally's speech to heart, but the possibility that it may be an automatic makes me sigh. I hope it isn't.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, The CZ-75 is not more accurate than a 1911
Secondly, there is no "best" 9x19 millimeter pistol, its all personal preference,
Thirdly, the .45 is a better combat round due to its lager grain bullet and more dispersion of energy on contact,
and Lastly, while caliber is not the most important factor, the .45 A.C.P is superior to the 9x19mm because the 9 is a small lightweight bullet, while the .45 is a large heavyweight bullet.
P.S. sign your posts.
~~ PunisherDave
: Well, i tested both CZ75 and 1911. I was doing better with CZ. Anyway - I would take it into combat because of for example mag size. And 9mm bullets are way much more common... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Military 1911s almost universally sucked, with ultra loose fitting parts and 7 pound triggers, and nearly useless sights. 1911s in the civilian world, or the uber built special forces 1911, are nice. But your average GI 1911....not so. Im sure a cz75 would kick its ass in accuracy and reliability if you wanted to use more than ball ammo.
~~k9870
: Ágreed. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Those old 1911's had one thing going for them though, there was a hell of a lot of abuse you could put them through before they malfunctioned. Reliability is a factor. I'm not saying the CZ isn't reliable though, don't get me wrong. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 17:24, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It was once said "the colt 45 will drop a charging bull dead in its tracks, but good luck hitting it.

Haha, while I do know (note how I'm just basing what I say off of research, so I am open to corrections. Hopefully one day I can fire a 1911 and CZ to really know the differences)that the old GI 1911's were often maligned for their lack of accuracy, I've also heard people say it isn't that big of a deal considering that it is a handgun. In a military capacity, the pistol is there when shit gets up close and personal and you need to defend yourself. When the guy is close enough that you can see the whites of his eyes, I'm sure you're not gonna have to be a deadeye to land shots on target. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 18:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:My buddy's father was a Marine in Vietnam, and at least according to him, a lot had to do with the fact that their M1911s were just really old and worn. I would think that WWII production of M1911s would've been more enough to supply US forces for decades. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:29, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Ive heard they manuactured no new 1911s after ww2, and that they just swapped parts, keeping frame and slide. They were loose fitting, and rattled in holsters. a 7 pound single action trigger, and the sights are just awful, especially against a dark background, cheap 3 dot sights would be better. problem is when people think "1911" they think of the sweet modern ones. To be fair, military berettas are beat to hell too, and have known countless people to say the sights were misaligned, magazines had weak springs, etc.
The cz-75 though, this is the first time ive seen it in a game, its pretty cool. I cant wait to use it, im sick of the beretta being the staple 9mm.
-k9870

Misaliged sights are from them getting knocked around and is easily fixed, worn mag springs is through use and they are easily replaced.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It is true that no new 1911's were purchased after World War 2. The same .45's that were on G.I's hips in Europe and The Pacific were being carried by U.S troops during the Gulf War in the 1990's. I've heard that the quality of the 1911's varied from gun to gun. Some were actually were in decent shape while others were just horrid. I don't believe they all suffered from the problems that K9870 is saying. Although I admit the standard sights on those guns are just awful, Most of the time I can't even make out the front post. A lot of soldiers I've read actually preferred a 1911 to the M9 and carried it when possible. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 22:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I dunno about the automatic thing... I myself have only heard of the machine pistol variant of the CZ-75 until very recently, plus I don't think it has a place in media history as a well-known variant of the CZ-75 (much less the CZ-75 itself, outside of [[Gunsmith Cats]]), so I don't know how Treyarch could know about it. Most of the guns they got ideas for the game from are the airsoft guns they had in their office, and last I checked no one makes an airsoft automatic CZ-75. So I would bet my money on that this is just the game's Desert Eagle - the pistol that outshines the rest (and it's about time! The CZ-75 is very underused in the media, IMO). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 09:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually I'm thinking that the Python is gonna be the Power Pistol of this game followed by the 1911. The CZ is probably gonna be the 9mm hi cap of the game.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I hope they dont neuter it for "balance" and that it is awesome, who cares if they need to balance with the makarov and asp? When you buy better guns, they should actually be better, not just change one stat for another.

==asp==

was the asp pistol any good or even used much? It seems the grips would be slippery and the sights are weird.
-k9879
:According to a random site I found, it wasn't used much. Originally, only 100 were produced, and if they are still produced, they are produced only on a pistol-by-pistol basis by custom gunsmiths or shops or something along those lines. The grips were smooth because the original designer intended it to be the ultimate concealed carry pistol, and the smooth grips helped this keeping the chance for the hand to snag on the grips while pulling, aiming, and firing to a minimum. In addition, the sights are weird but when aimed through, due to the design of the sight which employed fluorescent panels, would point at the target when properly aligned, making it easier to shoot reflexively. -Chris Hun7er 23:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

It is a S&W Model 39 which was a really good pistol. It looks as though its in the game because of the size of the Makarov. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:34, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Over-Under Shotgun ==

The Over-Under Shotgun AKA "Olympia", seems to be based off of a Browning Citori XT shotgun. I don't have a screenshot of the gun ingame (It was on the ground, and in HD, but the page was protected so I couldn't save it). But I am pretty sure that the Browning Citori XT is the real-life inspiration for the Olympia.

==Snubnose more accurate?==

What game designers brilliant idea was this? i could understand faster switch or something, but higher accuracy?

I think they were too stupid to make the snubnose version default and a 6" barrel an attachment. --[[User:Xarex|Xarex]]

A 4 inch python is a great service handgun, they should just have 4inch standard, the 6 inch a slower draw but more accurate, the snubby less accurate but faster draw, and unlocks like a nickle finish, different grips, pimp it out however you please.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would think that a snub makes it more accurate, this is just stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

On the COD wiki it shows the stat page ffor snubnose, down one bar power, up one accuracy.
k9870
:It could be that one of the developers mixed it up by mistake, if its not a mix up..... then why bother making videogames with real guns anymore if Treyarch is just going to make up stuff. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 08:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

::A snub nosed revolver has less power AND accuracy than a full size revolver.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

:::I mean in a video game sense (balance over realism), wouldn't a shorter barrel logically mean less accuracy? Sorry if what i said earlier sounded like i wanted Treyarch to make the game like real life. I just meant that Treyarch would be messing with logic to make a shorter barrel mean higher accuracy. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 12:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Black Ops Zombies weapons ==

For those that are wondering, this is the "teaser" trailer for Black Op's Zombie mode www.gknova6.com

So far the weapons I can see and identify are the HK21E, Ithaca M37 Trench Gun, a sniper rifle that looks similar to the design of an Artic Warfare Super Magnum and a tricked out AK variant.

Also it seems we may have Zombies in modern arenas like Office complexes and Labs [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Makarov with target sights. ==

I just noticed that the Makarov has target sights instead of the Military sights. That definatly seems wrong for Military use.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Military sights suck, im sure special forces would replace them.

Maybe but as I recall they didn't have target sights back then, plus they are Dropped by the Russians so they would have the military sights. They aren't that bad by the way, I have personal experiance with them and they are fine.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Saw on COD wiki "upgraded iron sights" as an attachment.

==Strela-3 Missile launcher! Latest Trailer!==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA 1:10 "Vehicle Lock-On Only". Also whats that gun at 2:03, it makes me confus
--[[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]] 17:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

==Who Wants to Ice Castro?==
Apparently you can do it, and there's even an achievement for doing it in one shot!
http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/call-of-duty-black-ops/news/call-of-duty-black-ops-achievementstrophies-reward-you-for-murdering-monkeys-and-fidel-castro/a-20101001104021980032/g-20100430155437473001
[[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 18:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

tell ya what , if you can do that cuba is gonna be pissed . simmons 8492
Oh, oh, I DO!!! :D [[User:Young Gun]]

== Clues from leaked Achievements list ==

Full list here. SPOILERS! [http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2]

:-The player gets to use TOW missiles in the game.
:: MP killstreak list is more than few days old.
:-It's DEFINITELY alternative history.
:: That was clear.
:-The Grim Reaper is in the campaign somewhere.
:: Seen already in one of first trailers.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== Found a PSG1 ==

[http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101001181628/callofduty/images/f/f9/Psg1better.jpg Here], to the right of the G2 --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 19:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

: '''Oh. My. God'''. 2000 Famas with flamethrower and M16 handguard. I beg it would sound crazy month ago. Looking forward MoH much more. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
:Sharp eye, dude. You have my respect. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:13, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63 RAK ==

@ 2:04 in the new trailer here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA] Looks like a PM-63 RAK
[[Image:BO Unidentified.JPG]]--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

:He he, monkey.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 02:31, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Galil ==

Hey guys, found an ingame image of the Galil, head over to the Black Ops page to see it --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Explanation for Impossibly Inaccurate Weapons ==

It is possible that the explanation is that not all of this game is 1968. By looking at www.gknova6.com viral ad site for black ops, reading the trophy/achievemnt list, and by piecing together all the nova-6 gas based missions I believe that one of the playable characters will be killed or severely wounded in the Bay of Pigs Invasion in Cuba(due to the Sacrifice tropy found on the list at http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2). The Gk Company or the Russian goverment then has him revived or recovered to relate what happened with his Ops in the year 1993(www.gknova6.com) or 2010(reveal) at Rebirth Island(Vozrozhdeniya Island) home to the Russian Microbioligical Warfare Unit(source wikipedia). This is not fannon look at the all the raw info of GKNOVA, the mission objectives of sevarel missions, and this GKNOVA6 Web site. Sorry for the long windedness but hopefully you will all understand.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 17:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

So...how does any of this new information explain the inaccurate weapons? The missions with the weapons in question like the AR-15 and the AUG really did took place in a time when they shouldn't exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:20, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Its confirmed this game is alternate reality/timeline so inaccurate weapons is less of a deal.
[[User:K9870|K9870]]

I was more or less talking about way off ones like the WA2000, FAMAS Felin, Artic Warfare, and Spectre M4.Trust me Im not saying thats a good excuse for F-ing up with the CAR-15 hybrid thing and the production "protoype" AUG but that might be the excuse for the G11 and all other post 1970 weapons.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 04:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course there's always the point that this is just a video game that has events based off of real life occurrences too... [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Model 1887 is back ==
In before complaining. Seen in the newest trailer around the 00:42 second mark.
http://kotaku.com/5661296/a-look-at-black-ops-single-player-gameplay-and-story

Definitely a shout out to Terminator 2 there. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 02:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It has been confirmed for single player campaign only, by trearch. Dunno about zombies --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh-ho, my friend, they are here. The best part is that the zombies are still of the Nazi variety. http://www.gknova6.com/agegate.php

:I mean dont know if its on zombies--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Only in one sequence within the campaign, don't think it's in zombies --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

What did enough people bitch about "how unfair" it is by blaming their lack of skill on "noob guns"?
:Honestly, I can understand why people complained about Akimbo 1887s. They definitely weren't balanced, since you could fire them almost constantly by staggering your shots until you had to reload. They also had almost insane range (For a video game shotgun), and very high power. I was fine with the single 1887, but I was glad that they nerfed the Akimbos. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 17:02, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

And I hope the zombies arent nazis, i want to fight commie zombies......

:Looks more like there may be a possibility of fighting not only Commie Zombies but Vietcong Zombies and regular civi zombies too, some of those screens look like their wearing office uniforms and lab coats besides military armor. In some ways I'm glad the 1887 is in singleplayer but at the same time I was kinda hoping it would also be added in multiplayer minus the silly akimbo models, they just looked wrong in my opinion. Also sign your posts with "~ ~ ~ ~" without quotations and spaces. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Deer Hunter ==
Looks like theres a scene in the new trailer similiar to the roulette scene in The Deer Hunter, I wonder how that will work in the game. (just a cut scene or a playable moment?) --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 03:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

'MOW" haha that shit gets me every time . simmons 8492
:Nips? Wow, you're doubly ignorant. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

*Actually, there is no proof the Vietcong actually did anything like that, and it is widely agreed among film critics that the Russian Roulette scenes are actually allegories for the American involvement in Vietnam. We also have a few Asian members on this site, so you should keep your racism to yourself. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

:Well I'm not Vietnamese, so that won't offend me. Besides, sticks and stones. I'm more American than I am Asian [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Dont want to look bad to future members, i know some is just joking but some people take everything seriously.

know what , your right . my bad guys . ill take it down. simmons8492

== Walther MPL confirmed ==

Found a video on G4 containing confirmation that the MPL SMG is in-game. For reference it's the gun painted all green http://g4tv.com/videos/49177/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops---Jungle-Multiplayer-Map-Exclusive/ [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 16:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== 'Grip attachment' on Sub Machine Guns ==

I've heard that the grip attachment on SMGs in fact deploys the stock. That would explain why they all seem to be removed/folded ont the SMGs.

:This is most proven on the Skorpion, attaching a grip actually attaches the wire folding stock [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:24, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

==Is it just me...==

or is using the same flip up sights on every damn gun just friggin lazy?

[[User:k9870|k9870]]

It's an attachment called 'improved iron sights'. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:32, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

No, there standard in game sights. The improved adds outiline and dots to pistols, the flip up sights on guns is laz and trying to look tacticool. Even the m60 has them

And because the standard factory iron-sights for the M60 and the FAMAS, well, SUCK. I really was not a fan of the M60's irons in COD4 and the Battlefield Bad Company games. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:19, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
: Agreed. Kinda bugged by the repetitive sights on some guns myself, but I'm not gonna let it get me down. Most of the guns have their own, correct sights. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, thats Treyarch development style. Put everything they want in any time etape. This game is already dead to me - actually, MoH with its 5 hour campaign is much better than MW2 and Black Ops ('' MW2 with different textures and anachronistic guns'' )
:: Wow dude, you must be from the future seeing as how you are able to form this opinion with a game that hasn't even been released yet. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Meh, I usually play games because they are fun. MOH was pretty realisitc, (compared to Call of Duty anyway...) but it definetly wasn't fun (online). I'll just revel in the ridiculousness of it all... Akimbo HS-10 FTW
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I just finally see these old obscure guns in games and they put lameass sights on, BTW medal of honors single player was cool (ending was abrupt and anticlimactic though) but online is glitchy and feels unpolished. I want to play COD.

Not really sure about the LAME part, but I'd rather have USABLE sights even if they aren't the originals and seem LAME in other people's eyes. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:46, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Is it so hard to ask for variety, im sure the stock sights are usable for a game, i may just use an AK online since it doesnt have flip ups.

Is it so much to ask them to give us variety in the same type of gun, like stock and stockless MP5 or underfolder AK. performances, it makes no difference, but I like variety in what you pick to shoot with. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

== *SPOILER* Zombie Mode Characters. ==

Hey, just saw the intro video for zombie mode. It seems you play as John F Kennedy, Richard Nixon, Some CIA Bloke and Fidel Castro... Heres the link:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbhcHCP24g]r
::That fourth guy would appear to be Robert McNamara, JFK and LBJ's Sec of Defense. Why not just LBJ? Or Bobby Kennedy? They couldn't find two voice actors to do bad Bahston/Kennedy accents? ("Er-eh, toss me another maaahg!") --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Awsome.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 23:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

: These guys are only on bonus map that you get after finishing campaign. There are some random US sosldiers fighting Nazi Zombies in normal zombie mode. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Damn, i love cigars but hate commies. [[user:k9870|k987]]

Zombies better be commies, killing nazis got old i want to shoot commie zobies.

:Is it just me, or would LBJ be better replaced by LHO? (Lee Harvey Oswald.)
::Only if he could only carry three bullets at one time. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:47, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

=="escape the past"==

Its a achievemnet listed, does this imply time travel?
-k9870

Or that something one of the characters did is going to come back to bite them in the arse. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

If it's time travel I'm tearing someone at Treyarch a new one--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:Don't get so defensive over a title. It could be a really cool section, forcing the player to battle his way out of his hometown. Or, maybe time travel. >.> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 23:31, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Nah I meant it all in good humour XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I highly doubt that it's actual time travel. From what we've seen and has been speculated, the majority of the campaign will take place as memories of Black Ops missions that the main characters participated in. No time travel, just photographic memories. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

==New Videos confirm various unknowns==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrNoLz4gC60&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=dvWBYFCAcck]

Among a few things, this video confirms that the G11 is burst fire only, and at the exceptional rate we expect. The poster has posted about many other of the weapons, also confirming that Full Auto is a pistol attachment for the CV-75. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:19, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Golden Guns are Fugly ==

I mean take a look at this!

[[Image:Golden_PSG1.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden PSG1]]

[[Image:Golden_WA2000.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden WA2000]]

[[Image:Golden_Stakeout.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden Ithaca Stakeout]]

[[Image:Golden_HS-10.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden HS-10]]

Also, it would appear the the Ithaca M37 IS the Stakeout version and not the Trench Gun version we initially believed [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:39, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:I thought golden guns were fugly before. >> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:That doesn't even look like real gold, it looks spray painted on! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The gold guns look terribad, probably will avoid using gold camo altogether :C --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 00:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Why spend money on gun colours, when you can just buy gun attachements? :D [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:^ This. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Eh, still gonna make my Duke of New York class with a gold Mac-10 and a nickel (I swear I saw a nickel or 'silver' camo) Python. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Not sure it was confirmed, I think there was rumors flying around but nothing concrete. Besides, I don't think camo patterns can be applied to secondaries, which is lame. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Have you heard that even ACOG´s can be added on pistols ? This game is gonna suck.
:::Because the fact that you can put a scope on a high powered revolver (Something that's doable and often useful in real life) means that the game automatically sucks. Thank you for your insight. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Only python can take an acog. And as to golden guns you only use them if you want to and it looks like you can do it for individual guns instead of the whole damn class its in.

The Python's recoil with the ACOG looks pretty balanced, I'm not too bothered about it. Besides, is pretty cool that Treyarch are doing something a bit different. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:I just added pictures of all the golden guns, they are pretty gross. I would never waste any fake money to buy them.

==just watched zomie gameplay==

pentagon level, the zombies were amix of original nazi zombies and pentagon workers turned to zombies (were wearing shirt/tie)

Why cant they have communist zombies, seriously?

[[user:k9870|k9870]

:I guess they don't want to offend anyone who might be communist. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I still hope there's some Nazi ones left. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Nazis made sense in ww2, but thats been done, we want something new, commie zombies.

From what I've seen, the WaW characters are returning to fight straight Nazi zombies, JFK and friends fight Pentagon zombies in the Pentagon, and there's another with Russian zombies in Winter camo (that's shown on that GKNOVA6 website right now). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The JFK/Nixon/Castro/McNamara level is a bonus level at the end of the game, not the actual zombies mode. The real zombies mode features some new guys in some labs (as seen on GKNOVA6) most probably russian special forces. It will include communist zombies. and the characters from W@w are in it if you buy hardened --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 11:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I hope the pentagon level is 4 player co op so i can play with friends

==Interview with the military advisor==
Here is the link to the interview with the Call of Duty: Black Ops military advisor if anyone is interested in reading it. [http://www.3news.co.nz/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-military-advisor-interview/tabid/418/articleID/185313/Default.aspx] --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 16:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, that Advisor doesnt know anything about weapons. Or any kind of warfare. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Of course your in a position to judge him right...--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, god forbid Treyarch try and make a fun game, instead of a military simulator. Fun? What's that?! [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 10:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: But game can be fun even with realistic weapons or good AI of enemies.
Unfortunately, Treyarch went in MW2 way and instead of making enemy AI better, they spawned twice as much of them.
:::No one says COD was ever a military simulator, but a M16/M203 turning up during the Bay of Pigs invasion would seem to be a "bit" out of place. Now that we know the singleplayer is set between 1961 and 1968, any arguments about the game taking place in some era that justifies the anachronisms has become irrelevant.

==Just putting this out there==
Does anyone else believe that now that the game's actually out and we can get higher quality screenshots, that the old low quality caps be removed? Or maybe the entire page be redone so it looks a little more consistent because you have a low quality shot from an online video then a high quality ingame cap from the game. I'm just saying it probably would look better. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 01:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the low-quality screencaps should be removed ASAP. I'll try to post some as I go through the single-player campaign, but eventually, they too may need to be replaced. I'm running it on 960x600 with no AA for playability. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:This page also need screencaps from the Zombies mode. I was unable to get the Thundergun (a two-shot sound wave gun that resembles a modern rocket launcher) and the Ray gun due to the constant waves of zombies that may sneak up on you and kill you easily, large number of barriers (too many to defend), and the poor weapons you receive in the early rounds. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I just finished single-player, and I've got tons of caps available. I'll try to upload that are relevant and in need later --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 04:18, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Impressions So Far? ==

What do you guys thinks of the game so far? My only dissapointment is that they have decided to remove the front sight when you use optics. Other than that, the guns look fantastic.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:I think it's alright, I haven't played campaign yet since the game is my roommate's so we've only been playing on Live. I think the only thing I'm not really liking so far is that they took away the slip-screen Special Ops. As for the guns, pretty much the same as yours along with the whole flame thrower thing, I just think it is rather ridiculous.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 06:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Boring. SP is short, unoriginal ('' This wont matter as MoH had short SP too. But it was atleast fun. Atmospheric and realistic fun. While its boring, unatmospheric and completely unoriginal in BO'' ) . There isnt anything like AI. Too many boring scripts. To the guns : They are anachronistic and unrealistic. It feels strange encountering NVA with Spas-12. MP is same like in MW2 ('' Read - Crappy'' ) with tons of spammed killstreasks etc.
:This game deserves '''5/10''', nothing more. Oh, and do not think i have something against Treyarch. I hated MW2 too. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I like it. SP was a bit of a mind fuck at times, and the AI could have been better, but 98% of the time I was having fun. MP is mostly good, better than MW2, though over the last 12 hours I started seeing some tubers. Yes it's anachronistic and ridiculous, but if I wanted an exact simulation of war I'd join the CF. Aside from some maps, I like it far more (In every way) than MW2. Galil w/ red dot & suppressor + 1911 w/ extended mags = awesomeness. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 15:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The story is actually pretty decent, better than the sponataneous betrayals of MW2. The voice acting is also, suprisingly, very well done. I really don't play multiplayer alot, but it's more balanced than MW2. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 15:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The constant flashes on the screen is annoying as hell. Almost gave me a seizure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The campaign was a bit hard to follow at first, but it comes together nicely in the end. Yes, the weapons are ludicrous (not even ridiculous, beyond ridiculous,) but oh well, I can live with it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Pretty much, I'll give this game a 9.2/10. The multiplayer and content is better and improved from Modern Warfare 2, but the campaign is a bit too short (only 15 missions :() and there's some minor complicated glitches in frame rate. Overall, the game is much better than Modern Warfare 2 and a good recommendation. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:24, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

To be honest guys I just ignore the ancronistic weaponry as it really doesnt matter in the long run. Lets face it, saying a game will suck because theres some AUGs in the 'nam era is just plain ludacris. If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops. Now that thats out of my system I can say with all honesty that this game is very addicting and its finnally a challenge to kill people(5-6 shots for a kill rather than 3-4 shots a kill in MW2). This game is a way more fun experince than MW2 and finally shows the potential of Teyarch development team. ---P226 21:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

: I agree, you people take the weapons accuracy way too seriously. What the hell did you expect from a mainstream video game? The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful. At least this games fun. Hate it for any other reason, that's fine I'll respect that. Hate it for innaccuracies when you really should be used to by know, and that's just ridiculous. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:: You and P226 have both just contradicted yourselves. On the one hand you state it's ridiculous to say a game sucks because of the guns, but then go on to say games that have accurate depictions of guns suck. If the game is fun, it's going to be fun whether the guns are accurate or not. I can't believe that if Black Ops had the correct weapons in it that it suddenly wouldn't be fun anymore. Perhaps you can give an explanation of how this would be so?
::''If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops.''
::I have to totally disagree with this statement. If Treyarch had used firearms of the period, we would have ended up with weapons that, to my knowledge, have never before been used in a video game. I have mentioned in other posts how the Remington 7188, an automatic shotgun that was really used by the NAVY seals in Vietnam could have been used in Black Ops. Instead we get the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time, and has been used in a million other video games. Which is the "bland, unoriginal" gun here? I'm gonna have to say the SPAS-12. Of course, if Treyarch had used the period correct shotgun the game would all of a sudden not be fun anymore and would suck, right?
::''The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful.'' I find this statement hard to believe. Would you care to back this up with some examples?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 04:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I never said having a game with correct guns of that period is going to be bad, I was trying to make a point that if Black Ops were to have just your standard m16's,Ak47's and colt Commando's, it would be just some normal Vietnam game. Also, all the guns above have been done to death in every video game none to man (though they are nice to have to fill in weapon slots), in my opinion I find the Galil as sweet( and different) Assualt Rifle, Ancronistic or not. If your the kind of guy who can't get over the fact that your using guns lke the AK'''74'''u and the CZ'''75''' in 1968, then this isn't the game for you. ---P226 18:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

:I don't know if you guys remember "Men of Valor," but it was a Vietnam FPS that came out a few years ago. It was developed by the same studio that did MoH: AA, so it felt a lot like MoH: Vietnam.) All the weapons were historically accurate, nothing was out of place, but if you've never heard of it, I'm not surprised. The game isn't bad, but it's not great, and it's flawed. The weapons were correct, but there weren't that many, and many of the weapons were just variations on the same weapon. (M16 and CAR-15, M14 and M21, and AK-47 and Type 56, and you couldn't share ammo for some reason.) Thus, you can make a game like BO that has ludicrously anachronistic weapons and have the biggest media launch of all time, or a game like Men of Valor that has historically accurate (and yes, boring) weapons and have it be unknown to the general gaming public. (You should try out Men of Valor though. If you have an original Xbox, you can get it new for a penny. It's not backwards compatible though.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

: I just might have to pick that up. And when I said the games with 100% accurate weapons suck, I didn't mean they sucked because of the guns, I meant that every game I could think of that was ultra-realistic just simply wasn't fun. No contradiction. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:54, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:You all seem to say the guns don't matter, but then show your disdain for having the correct weapons in the game, as if this would somehow make it boring. ''I never said having a game with correct guns of that period is going to be bad, I was trying to make a point that if Black Ops were to have just your standard m16's,Ak47's and colt Commando's, it would be just some normal Vietnam game.'' So if Black Ops had the exact same story, but the correct guns it would just be a normal Vietnam game? Why? The story makes the game, not the guns. And there's plenty of weapons that would be correct to the period that haven't been "done to death" (HK-33 w/ 40 rd mag, used by Navy SEALS, Carl Gustav m/45, Remington 7188, the list goes on) What exactly qualifies as bland,unoriginal guns, that if they were included would make the game boring? I just get the impression from you that the only interesting guns in this game are the ones that dont' belong there. My point is that they could have had period correct weapons and it wouldn't have affected the fun factor of the game at all--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 04:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::I am more bothered by the guns that didn't make the cut. Why not an M76, a Carl Gustav, a Madsen M50, or an M3 Grease Gun? Sure, they could've, but they didn't, probably on purpose. That brings leads me to what can be an interesting exercise: what would've been better weapons on each level? For the first level (the Cuban one) I would've put in an M2 Carbine and a PPK instead of the M16 and ASP. Other levels? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

::: RPK instead of "''RPK''" in first level. Also AK-47 instead of "''AK-47''" in second one. Vladimirov KPV instead of Minigun would be awesome. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, this game doesnt suck just because of guns. It sucks because its boring, it doesnt have AI and MP is shitty just like in MW2. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

How is the MP shitty, its definitly not, It developed to be much more balanced than MW2 in every way. Although it isnt perfect,(commando lunges...)it certainly makes modern warfare 2 look like crap as a SUBMACHINE GUN....*cough*UMP45*cough* had more power and range than most assualt rifles. As for the people listing the guns that should have been in the game, all I can say is 'sure I wish they added more time appropriate guns like the Carl Gusav and the Greese Gun, but its too late now and its going to be somthing we have to live as there is no point complaining about it on the internet(not trying to say that in harsh or disrespectful way). I feel if we can all sit down , forget all those anchronisms, and just enjoy this game for what it is, a FICTIONAL cold war/ Vietnam Game. Also on a side note, I think if Treyarh were to have focused this game on Vietnam mainly, then we would have all the correct weaponry, but since there going for a 'top secret CIA' type game,they add all these ludacris guns to accomidate the feel and presence of the cold war.---P226 20:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Pistol grips ==

Anyone noticed that there isnt gun without pistol grip ? Jeez. They put one even on Mosin. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Mosin and ppsh dont have them, characters just hold them like they do.

: Maybe in first person. But mosin has actually pistol grip when its in hands of NPC´s.

No, they just hold their hand as if they were, when its on their backs or they die and drop it doesnt, its probably due to all other characters carrying pistol grips and they dont want too redo characte rmodeling.

== Gold weapon images ==

Do we really need all those pictures of the gold camo? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah. It shows how silly and disguisting tis game is.
Sign your posts. But, I agree that the gold weapon pictures are rather unnecssary. If someone has the PC version of the game, taking pictures of the standard weapons in multiplayer would be greatly appreciated.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 20:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G36

2010-11-15T21:20:24Z

P226: /* Just wondering */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:Mod._G36-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36K with the stock removed and two magazines clipped together - 5.56x45mm as used in the film ''[[Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines]]''.]]

==Question==

Just a Question about the SL8, it seems silly, but is it integrally suppressed?
:[[User:Revolver|Revolver]], not at all silly question, but no. None of the SL8s have integral silencers. They have heavy barrels but I have never seen one outfitted to take a silencer either. The three SL8 Variants you see on the page are my personal guns, so I am just working from that. ;) There may be variations somewhere that I don't know about, but I can assure you that such a modification is a custom aftermarket modification. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 09:35, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

:As far as I know, the only Heckler & Koch weapon that comes with a silencer from the factory is the [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Heckler & Koch MP5SD|Heckler & Koch MP5SD]] submachine gun. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 08:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if this counts as integrally suppressed, but on HKPRO.COM, there is something advertised as the SL9-SD.
http://www.hkpro.com/sl9sd.htm
Kinda reminds me of the suppressed sniper rifle in Far Cry: Instincts.
hkpro.com is also a good site for pics/info pertaining to hk products, btw.
:Cool! It looks neat. It's an SL8 with a threaded barrel for their suppressor. Other than the addition of a PSG-01 style trigger, I don't see much of a difference, except they did not subdue the "bright red" HK logos on the stocks. I may have to convert one of my SL8 rifles to that configuration. ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:35, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Could a G36 take the role of a Designated Marksman Rifle, if the Designated Marksman lost it rifle. in a story im writing for fun a former Designated Marksman use a G36 as his main rifle, and carys is Mark 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle for sharpshooting. I was wounding if it was a good chose REX095

Probably. Any semi-automatic weapon that can take an optic can be a DMR, as long as it has greater accuracy than a standard model; I'd probably have him use a Springfield M1A Match instead of the G36, because it's basically a civilian model of the M14 with around the same inherent accuracy. It's semi-auto only, but a DMR isn't exactly going to use a full-auto weapon either, so it works out.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:Why would one take an M1A and a Mark 14 into battle at the same time? That makes no sense because doing so wouldn't provide any kind of advantage as you'd have two weapons that are of the same basic classification. What Rex095 is asking is if a G36 (his character's primary ''defensive'' weapon) can take over the role of DMR if his EBR (his marksman rifle, which itself is selectable between semi-automatic and full automatic) goes down. Rex, as the guy above me said, any semi-auto rifle can perform in a limited DMR role, but accuracy is likely going to be sub-par compared to a dedicated DMR. If your character has the resources, equip his G36 with a heavier barrel (e.g., an MG36 barrel) which will give better accuracy than a standard G36 barrel in case the EBR goes down and it's needed to fulfill the DMR role. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==G36C==
:Why is this gun in just about every new action movie and video game that feature large amounts of gunplay? I'm getting tired of seeing this gun and wonder why there are barely any other of the G36 series in movies and video games-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:34, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

:Why is it I hear lots of "I'm tired of (insert fairly new weapon here) when no one ever says "I'm tired of seeing those M4s. Theyre in every new action movie and video game and I'm sick of it" when that last statement is actually true? S&W, I don't know about you, but I don't see the G36C as much as many many other kinds of weapons. Personally I'm getting very sick of seeing overly-upgraded M4 or M16 rifles and all the Beretta 92-like guns going around out there. I think seeing more of the G36 family would be a refreshing change. Any other gun that deserves more attention would be nice. Where are all the Mk. 46s and the REC-7s? I've only seen those in R6V2 and if you ask me were misrepresented terribly. And am I the only one upset over losing the G36 in MW2? I was hoping for the full size version.

I like seeing more gun variety in movies and games, so as long as it makes some sense (i.e., not stuff like random street thugs in Predator 2 pulling out Steyr AUGs). Contrary to what some naive or misinformed souls may believe, Colt is not "teh ownly gun manufacturer wurth showing" on screen or in games, and not everyone uses a M16 or an M4 or an AK-47. The G36 is a perfectly good gun to round out the arsenal on screen or in games.

By the same token:

-The FN P90 is not the only PDW/Armour-piercing SMG worth showing on screen or in games--the MP7 and SR-3 Vikhr or the OTs-14 Groza are both perfectly suitable for the same role.

-M60s and M249 SAWs are not the only light machine guns that are effective or useful--PKMs, MG36s, QBB-95s, or even older ones like the MG42 are perfectly viable and useful.

The firearms industry has always been fiercely competitive and people from different factions often use different weapons in real life. More gun variety in games usually means more possible playstyles available and less of a chance that someone will get bored looking at the same gun all the time. For instance, despite the ejection ports being in the wrong places and the reliability factors largely in favour of Warsaw pact weapons vs. NATO weapons, STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl's gun selection was good for both the variety and the various playstyles it encouraged.

Hopefully movie armourers and game developers will put in more reasonable gun variety in those two media forms. Even in real life I highly doubt any one firearms company will end up establishing an unbreakable monopoly, forcing gun monotony on us all. [[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:24, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

--
GOD, I hated Infinity Ward for taking the G36C out of MW2, as I am a HUGE G36 fan. But to your point, [[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]]: Weapons like the Remington ACR, HK G36, IMI Tavor, HK MP7, FNH F2000... Newer, more modern weapons like these don't see NEARLY enough movie use.

The way I see it, when it comes down to it, you have these as perhaps the 10 most cliched weapons in the media (not in any particular order):

1: M16/M4 Assault Rifle series

2: Beretta 92FS

3: Franchi SPAS-12

4: HK MP5A3

5: FNH P90 PDW

6: FNH M249 S.A.W.

7: Glock Safe-Action Pistols (Any model, but the 18 is the most cliched, no doubt about it)

8: Desert Eagle (Models VII and XIX)

9: Steyr AUG A1

10: Saco Defense M60

With the exception of the Desert Eagle (Gotta love it), we've seen and re-seen these guns WAY too much if you ask me, but no one ever complains about it. WTF is up with that?
On the other end of the spectrum, you have some firearms that need to see more use (also not in any particular order):

1: HK G36 Assault Rifle series

2: Remington ACR

3: FNH F2000

4: IMI Tavor

5: HK MP7A1

6: Steyr AUG A3

7: M14 (Both the Original and the Mk. 14 EBR as well)

8: Saiga 20K (PGO)

9: TDI Vector

10: FNH M249 S.P.W.

Sorry if this got a bit long, but I just wanted to put it out there.
--[[User:GamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]--Destroying the world, one hippie at a time. 04:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

We don't see a lot of the "newer" guns like the ACR, TDI Vector or the ACR because I don't think any armorer has them yet. A Canadian armorer that did Resident Evil Apocalypse had a couple Tavors, 24 showed the MP7s and F2000. It's just that you have to look at the armorers. They can't have every single gun in their collection. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:38, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

The weird thing about the Beretta 92 is that no one ever seems to have a Beretta 90-two, in the newer games/films.

Also, I've never seen a Steyr M9/A1 in ANY film. Even in Fringe, they just used the Five-seveN as a futuristic stand-in; the world is supposed to be like ours, except different. The Steyr looks superficially like the Glock, but it has pretty out-there sights and is pretty different externally when you look at it up close.

And about the Saiga, I don't think I've seen a Saiga sporter (the original model from which the Saiga-20K is derived) in any film either.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

I totally agree, when they next make a game about US soldiers in combat, they should give them all G36s, ACRs, Vektors, HK45s, and PSG1s even though they don't use them in the real world simply because the "old guns" are cliched *rolls eyes*. But, seriously, I ''am'' all for variety, but that variety needs to be sensible. LAPD SWAT or US Army SF suddenly appearing with Tavors or XM8s wouldn't make a lick of sense. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:04, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

== Reliability? ==

Is the G36 reliable when put through mud, water,and dirt(ex Ak-47, HK416)? or does it face similar problems the M16 family faces?

The H&K 416 is basically a G36 operating system in an AR-15. So yeah, it is reliable in those conditions. The XM8 rifle was just a revamped G36, and it topped the 416's reliability by more than 200 rounds.

Thank you for responding, also does this apply to other assualt rifles of this era too?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

I don't know about the fifty-plus other assault rifles (I only really know about the main ones and some irregular ones like the Vektor CR-21), but the newer H&K models are mostly based on the G36. It's the same relationship as the G3 on contemporary models (PSG1, etc), you know?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

== Just wondering ==

Does the G36C see any action at all in either american or british special forces?
---P226 21:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

im not quite shure about the american special forces but yes it is actualy used by britsh speical forces not as heavaly as shown is movies and vidio games but is still a comon weapon in there arsenal --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 23:14, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

:I have never heard of either American or British SF carrying G36 variants. Both use AR-series rifles. It's possible they may have purchased some G36s, but that's irrelevant, because those guys purchase a little of everything. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:48, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Well maybe this is a better question... Does the G36C model have any use in the special forces comunity at all?, and does it have any conventional military use?---P226 21:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Heat

2010-11-15T21:12:56Z

P226: /* Cheritto's Galil */

==Views==

It's amazing we've reached nearly 80,000 views for this page. I remember how happy we were when it hit 50,000...which doesn't seem like it was all that long ago. Probably won't be much longer before we hit 100,000. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Over 130,000 now. Crazy. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

This discussion must be pretty old; the view are now over 230,000!! [[User:jackbel]]

==Has anyone seen this?==

http://fateoflegions.blogspot.com/2008/06/movie-guns-x.html

I'm just curious because although his list isn't as thorough as ours, he seems to have some very high-quality screenshots which look way better than those on my DVD. I especially like the screenshot of Trejo's Norinco AK, which shows the barrel and front sight in better detail. Blu Ray, perhaps?

: The clearer shots already disproved one of my own recollections and I will fix it. I could have sworn that I saw M16A1 uppers mounted onto SP1 lowers on the set. (it was fourteen years ago!) But the clearer BLURAY shots show Wes Studi's rifle to be an M16A1 lower, not the SP1 lower I thought it was. Fooey! I pulled one of those Franken-guns from the inventory (though I can't be sure if that gun ever was in HEAT) and photographed it for nothing. I will change it back. As for this guy's list, he has much clearer High Def shots, but his information isn't nearly as accurate as IMFDB's page. [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

:: ''I always used to think it was a continuity error...the first shot (where he's firing at the car) clearly shows a gun with a mil-spec A1-style receiver, but it does look like an SP1 lower in the next scene, right before he shoots Kilmer. If it weren't for the Blu Ray shots, I would have continued to think this way.''

:''The guy thought the 733s in the film were M4A3s just because of the DVD title sequence. Pretty funny. I wish I had thought to nab more shots, many of the ones he took were ones I didn't bother because I thought the ones we had were good enough. Should have followed my gut. His page is a little more complete but less correct, as far as I'm concerned.-GM''
::''There's also the phenomenon of having '''too many screen caps''', something I'm seeing on some pages (look at Dogs of War, the changes that aren't mine.). I know that some guys get all excited about their ability to post screen caps, but having literally DOZENS of images of the same guns is really '''beating a dead horse''' and makes the page cumbersome and annoying to look at. The last thing I want are to have IMFDB movie pages resembling people's MYSPACE pages ... cluttered, hard to navigate and generally irritating. So far I think your ratio of 'useful' images is just fine. These other guys don't know when there is '''too much of a good thing'''. ''
::''Also IMFDB has the advantage of multiple users checking and re-checking the pages. Sure some of the pages have work to do, but they will eventually be 100% done. '' [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

::What is this so called M4A3? I've never heard of it. So after the A1, there's an A2 and an A3 as well? Are we talking about what Colt makes or what Bushmaster makes? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
:::No such variant exists. Someone mistook another Colt variant I guess and soon it spread around as improper fact. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::I see. Well I can somewhat understand some people when they look at AR-15 type weapons as the same rifle because they all share the same basic design. I used to look and see every shorty M16 variant as an M4 before I knew more about the M4 and also used to not know that the M4 is the burst verison and the A1 is auto with the removable carrying handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

:Hey, guys, there is no Blu-Ray of Heat yet, unfortunately.
:UPDATE ON DAT ISSUE: Yes there is, now. By the way, above is me as well.-protoAuthor 19:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

==Bosko ([[Ted Levine]])==
The first casualty of the bank robbery gun battle. What type of gun was he using? [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 03:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:The rent-a-cop with the ankle holster? Or out in the street? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 15:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

::Out in the street. I though it was a G36K or something but I can't be sure. [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 02:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:::''I know this is kind of an old comment, but the G36 series wasn't around when the movie was filmed (1994-95), and it wouldn't have been imported to the U.S. until 1998, about two years after it entered service with the ''Bundeswehr''. Anyway, Bosko uses one of the M16A1s with A2 handguards that are used by most of the other detectives in the shootout, including Detective Casals.''

== M4 ==

During the van rubbery DiNero and Killmer used M4s.

:No, they used Colt Model 733s. - [[user:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]
:Is a ''"rubbery"'' something like a ''"shrubbery"''? And who is ''DiNEro'' ("Money" in spanish) and ''KILLmer''? Just kidding LOL!~ ;) - [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Help! ==

Someone fucked up the pictures with Â letters, i fixed that. Now, some of the pictures don't show for some reason. - [[User:Flying Dane]]

== Fixed ==

It's okay, I fixed them. They had some long spaces in them. Alienqueen11.

== MoviePropMaster2008 edit ==

I deleted the MoviePropMaster2008 edit because of it's non-encyclopedic tone. If discussions about a certain gun in the article are to be made, I think it should be done here in the discussion section. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 23:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:Well, that's fine, but then at the very least, you should have the courtesy to copy and paste the comments into this section rather than deleting them completely, as I have done here.

Alright. I'll be sure to do that in the future. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 19:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== Conversation on the FNC ==

MP2008 had a really good conversation going about which variant of FNC is carried by Vincent in this movie. I have now revived it for this section:

: Well, you've been very busy, [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]], though you're making an entirely educated guess (not a bad one) The 70-30 is a Para length barrel semi auto FNC designed for Law Enforcement use and sale only , so that would be a good guess. However, The FNCs on the set WERE full auto (I was there), but Director Michael Mann directed Al Pacino to fire semi auto only (which is pretty cool since police should NOT go full auto on street full of civilians). From what I remember, Pacino's gun was a pre-1985 American imported FNC 223 rem Sporter that was converted and had the barrel chopped WAY down to mimic the Para rifles and had a M16A1 style birdcage flash hider installed (see pic) by the movie armorers. FN imported American shorter FNC guns 'called' the para rifle, but the American barrels were several inches longer than the one seen in the movie, so this one was chopped down to look more like the European Para Models of the FNC.

[[Image:HEAT FNC Short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pacino with a chopped down FNC rifle - note the M16A1 style birdcage flash hider, the original FNCs used Belgian FN FAL style flash hiders and the Para Models had an ultra short version of the same Belgian design.]]

:Harry Lu was the lead armorer (same guy who just did Rambo (2008)), but he's the head coordinator. There were a LOT of trainers and gun handlers on location - it was a big shoot with lots of actors/stuntmen handling live weapons. Lu, like most armorers, acquired the guns from rental houses. At the beginning of the filming of the Street battle, the FNCs were provided by Mike Papac of Cinema Weaponry, but the filming went a lot longer than anticipated, and rifles apparently were swapped out with guns provided by Syd Stembridge of Stembridge Gun Rentals of Glendale (according to everyone's recollection), it's been almost 14 years since that shoot so everyone is working from memory. I too must check it for sure. What I remember and what Mike or Syd or Harry tell me may differ so I will try to get a pic of Pacino's exact gun or at least get the exact model and make info. ...[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

How do you get images onto imfdb i am really stumped

:''Use "Upload File" under the "Toolbox" section (visible on the left menu, below "Search"). To actually display images in an article, copy and paste some of the code from any article of your choice (you can use the code that I used on this page to display the image of Pacino with the FNC, above).''

::I don't remember what I said to which MPM replied. Anyone remember? [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Gonna fix my own pics==
Will probably be replacing the pic I uploaded of the Colt 733 since mine is actually an M16A1 with a Colt Sporter Carbine top, chopped down to resemble a 733. I am trying to get a REAL (marked) 733 that hasn't been altered by a gunsmith (that's pretty hard in this town). Too many of the guns are outfitted with outlandish RIS rails, lasers, scope mounts, and they're nearly unrecognizable. And if I'm borrowing someone else's gun to snap pics of I don't want to have to completely rebuild their gun. ;) Just giving everyone a heads up. (MPM2008)
:Is that why these guns have A2 recievers and yours has an A1? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==New pics==
How does our number 1 page look now that I added some extra shots? I'm quite proud of my Norinco Type 56-1 pic. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Comment regarding the first shot of the FN FNC section.==
The screencap you have would appear to show no one but civilians in Vincent's line of fire. However, the shots immediately before show Vincent and his soon-to-be-deceased partner coming under fire from Shirelis as he hops into the getaway car. Considering that most no one short of a robot's going to have enough wherewithal to know when to stop firing THAT quickly, it can be reasonably assumed that Vincent still believed he had a good bead. I wouldn't slight him for that one. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

== Discussion of "Fragmentation" ==

Hello.

I noticed a over enthiusiastic, but inccorect passage regarding the secondary wounding mechanism of "fragmentation" in the Colt 733 article, and editted it appropriately.

Fragmentation is well documented to be a function of velocity. While certain rounds can fragment at lower velocities (ie, MK262 Mod 0/Mod 1, Nosler OTM, etc) it remains a constant that a high velocity = higher chance of fragmentation. As a result, the statement that rounds fired from the 733 fragment violently, similiar to an "explosion" is completely false.

As is documented in reports by Dr. Martin L. Fackler, and in testing, the reliable fragmentation threshold for common military 5.56 rounds (Vietnam era 55 grain M-193 and modern green tip 62 grain M-855) is 2700 feet per second. The M733 with it's 10.7" barrel will produce velocities in the low 2600 range at the muzzle (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/john.ppt#3, a US SOCOM report concerning the modern MK 18, 10.5" barreled grandchild of the M733) , and as such, will not provide very good fragmentation at distances beyond punching range.

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_2700.html

==FNC rifle update==
I changed the entry for the FNC rifle. I spoke to all of the armorers on set on this film and everyone says that the rifle was a full auto FNC (imported in the early 1980s) that was chopped and fired semi only at the behest of Director Mann. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

==1911 & clones handguns==
The handgun seen on the SISs officier near the end seems to be an LA Vickers Custom, based on the Springfield Loaded pistol, with an extended magwell (you can clearly see the extension on the pistol). The LA Vickers Custom was one of the 1911 handguns delivered by Property Division to the LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom II was selected as standard issue for the LAPD (and later the Kimber SIS for the SIS officers)

:It's possible, but I dunno if you can assume that. It's always a bad idea to assume that just because a certain law enforcement agency/unit or military uses a particular gun in real life, the exact same weapon is being used in a particular movie. There are a lot of movies that depict NYPD officers using Glock 17s instead of 19s, or that depict Secret Service Agents using SIG-Sauer P226s instead of P228s/P229s, for instance. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Yeah sure, but it looks like they at least tried to replicate it. Well i think we can say its a Government pistol with a magwell extension.

==Empty P220 anyone==
During the ending section, where Neil shots Trejo, Van Zant and Waingro, then shoots at Hannah, he fires a total of 8 rounds from his P220. Now correct me if i'm wrong, but a P220 carries an 8 round mag of .45 ACP rounds, so when Neil is lying in wait for Hannah just before the end, wouldn't he be empty? That is, of course, if he never reloaded.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
:Why wouldn't he have reloaded?
::Perhaps he had 1 round in the chamber, plus the 8-round magazine. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::True, but that would still only warrant him one more shot.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

==Car Chase==
It's funny: I was just on the street in downtown L.A. today where they filmed the shootout in this movie between the LAPD and McCauley's gang. Remember the part where McCauley, Cheritto, and Shiherlis got in the getaway car and drove off only to be stopped by a police roadblock? They made that sequence seem longer than it really would've been in reality. When I was on Fifth Street today, I looked, thought about it, and realized: they drove roughly one block before stopping, but it seemed like a much greater distance in the film. Just wanted to point that out. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Well, what can I say...you've stumbled upon one of the nuances of direction. Depending on editing and filming, a scene like that can appear to take place over a longer distance than it actually does. Even though Mann might have only been able to get the city to close down one or two blocks for filming (which, when you think about it, makes perfect sense), they can still make the scale of the battle feel larger and more epic with good direction. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh yeah, its still a great scene. In my opinion, I think it is one of the greatest movie gunbattles ever. It reminds me of the escalator shootout at Grand Central Station in ''[[Carlito's Way]]''. It kept going for a really long time because it was a very epic gunfight. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

==Hanna's Guns==
I was also just thinking about this: the filmmakers got most of the LAPD's weapons right. Patrol Officers carry Beretta's and Remington's (of course I don't think the LAPD used Mossbergs, but whatever. Maybe they did, idk), SWAT carries 1911's, MP5s, etc. You get the point. But what I found really interesting was Hanna's choice of weapons. A Colt Officer's ACP with ivory grips and an FN FNC. Now those are weapons I've never heard of any American police department using. Anyways, I just thought that was kinda odd. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree but on the other hand, I think, plot-wise or character-wise Hanna's choice makes sense.
Maybe Hanna's guns were chosen for dramatic reasons, to show, how much a loner he was. You know, he's not playing by the rules, so he doesn't use the same guns as the rest of the team. And since he's the best cop ever, of course he's allowed to carry any gun he wants. Something like that. There are many movies in which the hero-cops carry stranger guns (Remember Sam Elliott playing a NY-cop with a .45 Winchester Magnum LAR Grizzly Pistol?).
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 07:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

==KP90==
:I do not think that Cheritto would be the kind of guy who would use this sort of pistol over something better like a Hi-Power or M1911. He seems like a fellow "Gun Guy", who would not be caught dead with such a crappy sidearm-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

What makes the KP90 so "crappy"?
I´ve shot a few rounds with a P89 some years ago. Can't say, it was a bad gun.

BTW I´ve always been under the impression, there are no really bad guns. Only bad shots.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 13:38, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

:It doesn't matter how good a shot you are if your pistol falls apart when you fire it-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

And the KP90 tends to "fall apart"? Never heard of that. Any experiences?
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 07:49, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't, a lot of the P-series Rugers have a reputation for reliability earning them the nickname "Bricks with Triggers." S&WShooter, just because you don't like a certain gun doesn't mean that everyone agrees with you or that a gunman's credibility should be questioned because he chooses to carry it. Your opinion is not the final say on a gun's quality. For instance, many people prefer weapons with double-action triggers like the P-series Rugers over the single action 1911 and Hi-Power you adore so much.

S&WShooter is an example of "MY BRANDS ARE BEST!!! REST ARE CRAP!!!" kind of person. Little experiance yet big talk.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:33, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== Chuck Adamson. The real life inspiration for Vincent Hanna.==
[[Image:St46 (2).jpg|thumb|350px|none|([[Chuck Adamson]]) as Barry Dorgan in blue blazer in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''. Adamson was the real life inspiration for the character Vincent Hanna in ''[[Heat]]''.]]
He retired as a Lt. with the Chicago PD. He was the guy that Micheal Mann modeled Vincent Hanna after. He was a technical advisor on ''[[Heat]]'' and I believe the televison series ''[[Crime Story]]'' which was also produced by Mann.Chuck Adamson passed away on 02/22/2008. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:That's interesting. I remember hearing Hanna was based on a real cop, but didn't know much about him. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:57, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

:On the special DVD release of ''Heat'' there is an interview with Adamson. He talks about an actual case that he worked in the early sixties in Chicago and how they ended up taking down the crew in a gun battle. Evidently this case was the inspiration for the television show ''Crime Story'' and the two movies ''L.A. Takedown'' and ''Heat''. Supposedly Adamson and [[Dennis Farina]] worked together when they were both Chicago cops. Just some interesting neat to know trivia. Impress people at parties. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:11, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== Duct tape? ==

At the beginning, I see DeNiro's Colt Model 654 with duct tape on the handguard. Is there a purpose for it? Because this has always bothered me when I rewatch the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
: I don't know this for sure, but I would guess that it's to either make damn sure there are no fingerprints, or help it burn with that incendiary, or help with gripping the gun some way, or just look cool. Knowing Michael Mann, it's probably one of the former three, rather than the latter, and I'm guessing mostly the grip one.-protoAuthor 19:27, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
::Well, we can rule out the first option because De Niro is wearing gloves. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 21:39, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
::I thought the duct tape was attaching a stop watch to the rifle, could be wrong though. -Toadvine

Here is what I read on TvTrope's page on gun accessories 'Soldiers often wrap tape around the base of a magazine to make it easier to handle, since it's usually smooth; companies such as Magpul now make slide-on grips, purpose-built magazine baseplates which include grips, and even whole magazines with gripped sides. Other options include transparent polymer magazines so you can more easily see how much ammunition you have left (with the downside that so can everyone else). Tape is also commonly wrapped around the base of a magazine to differentiate one end from another, which can be difficult in the heat of the moment, as most magazines are symmetrical. Tape can also be used to signify different bullet types within the magazine.' --~~

:::Toadvine is correct. He has duct tape on the hand guards because he has a stop watch attached to the rifle, which he uses to time the police response. It has nothing to do with making the rifle easier to hold (and TyTrope's page is talking about '''magazines'''; we're talking about the '''hand guards''', so that discussion is irrelevant). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:52, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

Kind of cinematic/firearms related but I remember seeing a movie in the 1980's called "[[L.A. Takedown]]" and when I saw ''[[Heat]]'' I thought they had ripped off the movie. Then I read an article which confirmed Mann had made both and had considered the former a "dress rehearsal" for the latter. Anyways, I remember in ''"Takedown"'' the lead actor in the movie used a [[Franchi SPAS-15]] in the final shootout proving, at least in my opinion, Mann always managed to make the weapons in his productions as exotic as the actors in them. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:Well maybe for LA Takedown, but in his other movies from Heat, Collateral, Miami Vice, and Public Enemies, the weapons weren't really "exotic". Maybe the SIG 552 used in Miami Vice, but all other guns since Heat were pretty normal. To me, it's the style of combat that is shown in Mann's movies that catches your eyes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:01, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

::Actually I should have said Mann delivers a little more variety in his flicks, television shows. With most "standard" police/crime dramas they have the usual firearms (Glocks, Berettas, AR-15 clones of some sort) whereas Mann adds things like the Strayer-Voigt Tiki in [[Miami Vice]], the FNC in [[Heat]], that sort of thing. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 21:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Hanna also used a nickel plated [[SIG-Sauer P226]] in "LA Takedown", further proving your point. I know someone using a SIG isn't that uncommon nowadays, but it was rare back in 1989. At that time, only ''[[Rambo: First Blood Part II]]'' and ''[[Robocop]]'' featured the 226. And this was the first time that a nickel model was used. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 05:43, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I too remember "LA Takedown". I thought it was cool to see the USAS-12 in action. I'm pretty sure it was the USAS-12 and not a Franchi SPAS-15. The only reason being that it was making the firearms writers circuit at the time, and it stood out with the 10-shot magazine onscreen. I still think that part of the anniversary Edition of HEAT should have been inclusion of LA Takedown, as I've not found a Region 1 DVD of it! - BC2009 19 December 2009

::::The shotgun used in "L.A. Takedown" was a SPAS-15, not a USAS-12. There are plenty of screengrabs of the movie online which confirm that the SPAS-15 was used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

I stand corrected. I found video clips of the movie, including the bank heist/shootout. Daniel Baldwin started out with the SPAS-15. Standing erect in a "proper" hi-power rifle stance. God I'm glad to see part of the movie again!

== A social history of the SPAS-15 (from an old fart) ==

Not only was the SPAS-15 considered to be exotic when it was used in ''L.A. Takedown'', but thanks to an executive order signed by President George Bush (the first one) it wasn't being imported into the United States along with many other foreign manufactured "assault weapons". It's my understanding that very few (I don't have an exact count) were shipped into the U.S. before Bush had an knee jerk reaction to a school shooting in Stockton(?) California in 1988 and stopped the importation of a whole bunch of different firearms based on their cosmetic appearances. I believe the shooter in Stockton used some type of AK-47 variant. Some of you guys are too young to remember the eighties and early nineties. And you're lucky.

There was approximately a fifteen year stretch from 1979 - 1994. It started with a school shooting in San Diego, California on 01/29/1979 (Brenda Ann Spencer. When asked why she stated "I don't like Mondays. Which was the inspiration for the song by the Boomtown Rats "I don't Like Mondays".) and culminating with the signing of the so called "Crime Bill" in 1994 by Clinton in which gunowners couldn't catch a break. Not one. Well there were a couple wins for us, but not many.Everytime you turned around some city or state was (effectively) outlawing gunownership and gunowners were ignored and percieved as whackos. Believe it or not things are better now. Much better in my opinion.

Actually one could argue that the real bad times for American gunowners started with Whitman and his shooting spree from the tower in Austin, Texas or perhaps when the WWII veteran went on a shooting spree in Trenton, New Jersy in 47/48. But I remember the 79 shooting and that's where I started keeping track.

Anyway the SPAS-15 was a victim of that time period. Just look at this as FYI. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:21, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

==The new pic that Ben41 uploaded==
With the supposed M16A1 with A2 handguards. that looks like a Heavy barrel, so it would NOT be an A1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:23, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

So it's an actual A2? Should it be changed?--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
:How can it be an M16A2? It has an M16A1 receiver.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
::Huh? The only difference between an A1 and A2 lower receiver (other than the 3 round burst) is that the back end of the A2 receiver is slightly fatter to resist cracking the ring that holds the rear buffer tube. How can you tell it's an A1 lower? I have to HOLD the two together in person in order to see the difference. Now if it's an SP1 lower, then that can be seen from a distance. If it is an SP1 lower (aka original M16 slab side) then an AR15 Heavy barreled upper receiver was installed on it. Either way, it's a franken gun and should be described in as much detail as possible. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:28, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
:::It's a franken gun. We all know that. But we can't call it an M16A2 because of the lower receiver. I'm talking about the whole receiver here. The A1 lower and the A2 lower are almost the same thing. Except for the grip if you can say that the grip is part of the receiver. But the uppers are very different. I can tell the difference between the M16A2 and the M16 in Heat because of the upper receiver. The M16A2 upper has an Brass defletor and an different rear sight while the M16A1 upper has no deflector and a different sight. Of course I don't really know if the barrel is part of the upper receiver or if it can be removed. I also don't know if the sights can be separeted from the A1 or the A2 receiver, though.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

==Video Game==
:I hope it actually gets made [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0803002/]

:I don't know. Movie games tend to suck. It hasn't had a really good track record [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:That's usually when games are released the same day the movie is, causing the developers to rush-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:49, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

True. The Godfather games are good but they were able to take their time on both of them.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 09:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

== Reorganizing Page ==

What do people think about reorganizing page by weapons? Since this is one of the most popular pages, I wanted to see if it's okay before I do it. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 18:30, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it wouldn't be a bad idea. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:What do you have in mind for order? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]\\

I was thinking by type of gun.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 10:44, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
: With a Page that gets so many views from the general public, I was theorizing about a change in how we normally organize sections. Previously we did it from smallest to largest (Pistols, SMGs, Assault rifles/Rifles, Shotguns, LMGs, HMGs, Destructive Devices, Misc) But the MOST asked questions in the blogosphere/internet deals with the assault rifles used in the street shootout. That one scene spawns the most questions asked by the general (and generally gun ignorant public), so I was wondering if we should begin the page with the most asked about weapons (Assault rifles, SMGS, Shotguns, handguns), basically going in reverse order for this one page. Most of the curiosity revolves around Al Pacino's FNC and the Colt 733s used in the fight. Just a thought. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:20, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

: ''BTW, I'm getting a photo of a REAL 733 tonight. Keep an eye out! WOO HOO! (the previous pic was one of my guns that was just a chopped carbine (when I bought it) so the pic is actually a fake 733, just like the C&C HK94s or the fake MP5Ks made from SP89s)'' [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:20, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Why not organizing guns by order of appearance? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Since this is a reference site, I find that it's easier to look it up by the type of weapon rather than by trying to remember when a particular weapon appeared in the film. This doesn't have to be the case for every film, but one with so many weapons featured, I think the way MPM talked about would work best. Let me know what the consensus is. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:06, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
::I agree with Ben41. For pages with 10+ guns I find that it is easier to look for something if it is categorized by type, especially when there are so many screencaps per weapon. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 02:19, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

:What about type of guns and in each section, you list guns by order of appearance? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Hanna is shooting at Shiherlis ==

[[Image:HeatFNFNC-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna fires his [[FN FNC|FN FNC-80]] at... nothing. Hanna tells his men before the gunfight to take clear shots and watch their backgrounds. All I see in his firing line is running civilians. This half of the screen was likely not visible in the original release, which wasn't in anamorphic widescreen.]]

In this image, the caption said that Hanna was shooting at no one and looks to be firing at bystanders. In reality, this shot was taken at the exact same time Shiherlis stopped shooting and finally got into the getaway care, and when the suppressing fire from Shiherlis stopped, Hanna came out of cover to shoot back, only to see Shiherlis wasn't there anymore. In my opinion, Hanna seems to be shooting at where Shiherlis was a moment ago before he stepped into the car. The camera angle makes it appear he's shooting directly ahead, when he is shooting towards the getaway car. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Organizing ==

I'm just organizing some pages. I'm not changing the text or screencaps, but I'm anal and I am grouping the firearms by type. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

== Andy McNab training ==

I just saw the behind the scenes feature and I didn't know the famous SAS operator, Andy McNab was behind the training for the De Niro and his bank robber characters and a different SAS guy, Mike Gould, training for police did Al Picino and his guys [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:12, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

well for an actor , al pacino dose a lot of running in the down town shootout.simmons 8492

What does that have to do with the training he and the other actors recieved? --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:48, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

well obviously he had to train for that scean, im sure all the actors did , im just suprised that he did it and wasnt needing oxygen after. just saying. simmons 8492

::Oh got ya. Actually Pacino should have been sweating and breathing hard at the end of the bank robbery gunfight. He might also have been shaking a little bit from all the adrenalin blasting through his body. Oh well movie magic. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:44, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

In the movie both Hanna and McCauley are former marines (Nate's intel on Hanna and McCauley's arm tat when he wakes up at Eady's). --[[User:Devang.dn|Devang.dn]] 02:57, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

put pacino and De Niro arent , so that SAS trainer realy got them in shape. simmons 8492

And you have to think movie production. They do scenes, especially big shootout scenes in sections and not one big go...Most of the time. They also do a lot of retakes as well as position the camera on different angles so it looked like they ran farther than they actually did. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Not sure where I read this but the whole scene was filmed within a block or two , due to camera tricks it looks like they covered a lots of distance. --[[User:Devang.dn|Devang.dn]] 16:56, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

thats true , but mann isint like those others . he dosent do the whole cut up shit . he probable had them redo it to get it right . simmons 8492

::It's very well-known that McNab and Gould were the weapons/tactics advisers on this movie. Gould also makes a cameo in the film. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:56, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

who dose he play? simmons 8492

In the film we know that both Hanna and McCauley were former US Marines, but would a Marine receive the extent of training needed to be proficient in CQB as portrayed by the two main characters in the film? I mean think about it; Hanna and McCauley would have joined the Marine Corp probably during the 70's or early 80'. Now I am unfamiliar with how exactly US Army and Marine Corp trained soldiers during that time in regards to trigger discipline and CQB, but I know that the training soldiers receive now in CQB is different then the CQB training given in the past. When I asked my father, who joined the Army as an Infantry officer in the late 70's, about the training he received in regards to CQB he told me he didn't really receive CQB training at all. I know that special forces groups such as the British SAS were masters in CQB during those eras but what about regular infantry? I also know that Hanna would have received more training throughout his career as a cop, but what about McCauley? I point out McCauley cause he probably would have left the Marine Corps sometime in the mid 80's, and started his criminal career most likely after he got out. AND YES I KNOW THIS IS JUST A MOVIE. -[[User:Choi117|Choi117]]

:Ok, Marine training is a little different from the regular army. I've heard from the older Marines I know about how they joke how the Army "ain't shit" compared to them. The Marines have always been a bit more specialized than the Army since WWII. McCauley most likely honed his CQB tactics during his career as a robber. Obviously he and the others on his team had worked long enough as a unit [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:13, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

first off , damm second im sure the marines trained him well enough in CQB . i mean being out of the service dosent realy matter . muscel memory kicks in and McCauly rembers all the things he was taught and does them without even thing . simmons 8492

first off , let me just say that heat is one of the best fims , second the entire LA bank job and shoot out , from when De Nero walks in to the bank , til pacino kills Tom sizemore is easly the best shootout in film history . and the training the entire cast went threw is mind blowing , al pacino running to De Neros CQB training , michael mann did an outstanding job . it is my opnion that this is movie gold. simmons 8492

==Cheritto's Galil==
What confused me during the bank shootout was that unlike his partners Chris and McCauley who were armed with Colt 733s, why was Cheritto armed with an IMI Galil ARM during the bank robbery? The person who wrote the Colt 733 section gave a good description of why the crew used Colt 733s in the bank job. However, no one really gave a good reason why Cheritto was armed with a rifle that was a longer barrel and even with its buttstock folded sticked out underneath his blazer when exiting from the bank. Was there a practical tactical reason for Cheritto to be armed with the Galil or did the production simply didn't have enough Colt 733s? [[User:Choi117|Choi117]]

:'''Story-wise''', the answer is probably that McCauley's crew was unable to purchase enough ARs for all of them. '''Behind the scenes''', my guess is that Michael Mann just really wanted to have a Galil in the movie. Of course, there are short-barreled versions of the Galil available, which would have made more sense for concealment purposes, but maybe Stembridge (the company which supplied the weapons for ''[[Heat]]'') didn't have any short-barreled Galils in stock. Any way, short answer is that there is probably no practical reason. This is a movie. You are over-thinking it too much.

:On a side note, the original script had them all using HK53s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:22, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Isn't the Galil ARM pretty much a light machine gun variant of the AR and can substan more automatic fire than most light barreled assualt rifle? Maybe the needed some sort of support gunner as he does have five more bullets in his mags and can lay down fire much more than your standard M733.---P226 21:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Too bad we didn't see much shots of him in the movie using the Galil. It would have been nice [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Heat

2010-11-15T19:26:36Z

P226: /* Cheritto's Galil */

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-11-15T18:47:16Z

P226: /* Impressions So Far? */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AK74u==

In game, it is a ak74u, not an aks74u. U=carbine S=folding stock.
The in game models are all mssing stocks, so are only an ak74u, as they are called in game. It should be noted as such, im sick of having to re change the main page and want to get this cleared up/

I don't care if there's no stock, there's no such designation as "AK-74u". Also, try unlocking the "grip" attachment for it. That adds the stock back on. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

AK74 is base model, u means shortened, s means folding stock, etc. So chopping stock off makes it a 74u

I am fully aware of what the designations mean. Find me an actual AK-74 carbine produced from the factory without the side-folder and actually labelled "AK-74u" (cannot be simply an AKS-74U with the stock detached), and I'll gladly change it back. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:16, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

It doesnt matter how it left the factory, it matters how you modify it. If you put a 4.25 inch barrel and slide on a full sized 1911 do you call it a government model or a commander? I mean its a commander model but left the factory a government.....

This isn't the Call of Duty Wiki, kid. We don't promote misinformation as fact like they do there. We refer to and classify firearms as they are in the ''real'' world, not the ''game'' world. That means referring to it by its ''actual'' name (AKS-74U, not AK-74U) and classification (carbine, not SMG). It doesn't matter what it's called in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Im trying to put the corerect designation, maybe even note there is a ak74 u and a aks74u, remember that we cant say a gun has a folding stock if it has NO stock. a 7.5 inch barreled ar with a stock is a carbine, taking the stock of its an ar pistol, not a ar stockless rifle.

But "AK-74U" is ''not'' the correct designation. Look at the [[I Am Legend]] page and you'll note that even though Will Smith's AR is modified to appear as an M4A1 in the movie, we still classify it based on what it ''came out of the factory as'', a Colt Law Enforcement Carbine. Also not that the most recent AK iterations as well as the AN-94 all have side-folding stocks, yet no "S" in their designations. Your AR "pistol" comparison also has no validity in that those so-called "pistols" all fire the same full-sized .223 cal./5.56mm ammunition and as such are pistols ''in name only''. So like HashiriyaR32 said, unless you can provide proof of an actual real life AK-74 carbine ''factory-produced'' without a folding stock and bearing the in-game designation, it stays AKS-74U. You're in the domain of the "gun nerds" and real life fact takes priority over in-game fiction. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==Accuracy of Game==
I have Black Ops and have beaten the campaign, while the missions range from 1961 to 1968 the game is LOADED with anachronisms, im not sure an alternate reality would explain for having FAMAS F1s ( ''In fact, FELIN´s'' --[[User:Werc|Werc]]) and AUG A1s in the 1960s. Also they have the M16 in Vietnam with a so-called Masterkey system on it, im not sure that they had Masterkeys in Vietnam but it looks to be an Ithaca 37 stakeout attatched to the M16, also nearly ALL of the NVA soldiers are armed with SPAS-12 which is completely wierd. Any comments from people who have played the game?
: Yeah, you are right. If this game would be atleast fun. But its boring, MP is even worse than in MW2 ( ''And MW2 had worst MP of all'' ''times'' ), SP is boring like hell. There is nothin such as AI. Storyline is boring an unoriginal. Weapons are both anachronistic and unrealistic. Nothing like kicback even on Mosin Nagant ? '''THIS GAME SUCKS, just like MW2 did''' --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Do you get a nickel from EA every time you rag on the game? And there are many things I can say about the story, but "unoriginal" is not one of them. I have yet to play another FPS where the player is mentally ill and one of the main characters is merely a hallucination. (Unless there's an "A Beautiful Mind" FPS I don't know about.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

well i enjoyed it , and if i tape a shotgun under the barrel of my M16 why cant i call it a masterkey . simmons 8492

I know that most of the weapons in the game are anachronistic and that's a little bit sad for a cold war game, but a lot of those firearms are never seen in video games, that's one thing that made me like it. Perhaps,I enjoyed the stroryline from the begining to the end, I love the Zombie mode and the multiplayer is great (at least when I play with my friends). --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 19:19, November 11 2010 (UTC)

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

It's an Intermediate rifle, like the P90 or MP7A1, slightly smaller caliber but with an effective range between a rifle's range and a sub gun's range.
:No, that is an incorrect comparison. The AK-74U is just a compact rifle since it fires an assault rifle round, not an assault rifle "styled" rifle. The P90 and the MP7 are designed from the ground up to be PDWs that fired ammo that are necked down rifle rounds instead of pistol rounds designed with the same armor piercing power as the full size rifle. It's like the Colt Model 733 or the 933 or any of the other shorten assault rifle variants. A submachine gun is always compared to weapons that fire pistol caliber ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

But weapons like the SAM-R use the same caliber as 933 and 733, 5.56x45, and the SAM-R is used as a DMR. i doubt the 5.45x39 could be a marksman rifle cartridge. even though its longer than the 5.7 or 4.6, its range and accuracy are not that of a true assault rifle.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==
Hey guys, Zombie mode on Black Ops includes 2 maps, each bringing there own unique cast of characters
-Kind Der Untoten-
-All classic Nazi Zombies Characters

-Five-
-Fidel Castro (Holding Colt Python)
-John F. Kennedy (Holding China Lake Launcher)
-Richard Nixon
-Character w/ Glasses and Suit (Forget His Name)

These maps i have not played that much but from what i have there are these weapons
-Kind Der Untoten-
-Olympia (Over & Under)
-Walther MPL
-PM-63
-MP-40
-Mystery Box (Any number of assorted weapons)

-Five-
-Olympia
-Walther MPL

-will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

its been confermed . for news hit up black ops 24/7 . they dont have 100 percent accurate weapons lists but its the best site out there

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''
Lee Enfield SMLE/ Jungle Carbine, M1 carbine, M2 carbine, SKS, Webley, Skorpion, M1 grand, RPG-2[[User:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

if anything there going to have those guns , and ruinthem buy adding rails and underbarell shit.simmons8492

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.
Some people are still saying it could be WASR-2. It's not a WASR-2. WASR-2's are new production (within the past few years) rifles from Romania made ONLY for semi-automatic use and for importation into the US. There's no way on God's green earth that the rifle in game is a WASR-2.

More than likely this is just an AK-47 with an incorrectly modeled mag. They ARE modeling these things after airsoft guns ya know.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

im not sure but with those ironsites id say a g36 . i hope they brink the one from COD4 back i loved it. simmons 8492

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

well am i the only one who thinks WAW did a horible job of represting the stoping power of the .45 . i mean the gun does nothing in the game , but in real life its a man stoper. simmons 8492

Game balance. That's why [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

i under stand but the walther is better in that game than the 1911. at least the .45 in COD4 had some good stopingpower to it . i know its a diffrent model but still . simmons 8492

and luchy for me , the boys at trayarc made the M1911A1 the manstoper that it is .SEMPER FI!!! simmons 8492

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

well the ak-74 would be good , but no one would notice the difference. most kids playing this game dont know am1911a1 from a m14 . id like to see both

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

a littel of topic but, that guy has one of the shitties grips that i have ever seen

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

i dont think he has the globe and anchor tat , but because of him im going to grow a mullet and wear a head band shhhing people. simmons8492

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

youd be suprised what i can do with one hand. simmond 8492

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Grenade launchers are balanced, mininum detonation range, slow reload, not very accurate (need to arc) only 2 rounds, and besides, use it to take down campers.

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

Yes. Confermed on callofduty.com

as lon as he goes all predator on some one like in wold at war , im fine with in, and being as that hes a soviet why is he with the us? defector or what? simmons 8492

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Not to mention it's impossible to actually fire one with live rounds. -Mandaloin

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

just for that tom jane is going to kill you with a bow and arrow. good job . and the balistic knive uses high tention (missspeled) springs, so id call it a projectial if anything. not to mension that , if you look at the rock on this site , it has the little dart shot gun that nick cage uses in the begining. simmons 8492

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

first , i had a kid tell me that the moddel 1887 is a rifel , based only on the fact that it has a lever and not a pump. i own no guns and also only pop on this site to win bets with my brother but i know that. but dose any one know if the m16 or famas have selector switches that can be changed?

Yes they do. The FAMAS can shoot on semi auto, and the M16a4 also has semi auto.[[user:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:While looking at the Create-a-class 2.0 vid shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzSImy-xm4, I found it rather odd for the choice that Treyarch was going with on the weapon selection for the pistols at the 0:23 mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to place the Makarov PM as the starting pistol because of it's weak 9x18mm cartridge? I'd personally would have liked to see it like this:

*Makarov PM
*ASP
*1911
*Colt Python
*CZ75

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

. reality and videogames are like an amish hacker , never gonna happen . this is going to be FUCKIN EPIC . simmons 8492

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

it looks like famas had a field day and fucked everything up . the pig dosent deserve that . and for all the idiots out there reading this and thinking"whats the pig, can you use farm animals as weapona" the pig is the name for the m60 , that gun hold a special place in my heart . simmons 8492

It really looks like they just took a lot of stuff from mw2 (like those god damned iron sights) and whats the deal putting Troy industries sight on an AUG? How stupid does that even look, couldnt hit shit in real life cuz there is no spacing between the front and rear post! Come on Treyarch i tough u could do better --[[User:Patrickgt|℗Λ✝r][©Κ]] 02:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/FAMAS_Felin_501556_fh000002.jpg [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

in the same video they show parts froma game called "gun game " the player swaps the M14 for the m136 . im gonna go all jessie ventura up in that bitch . simmons 8492

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::The guns don't make sense at all, not just because of the era. I mean flamethrower attachments, handheld miniguns, the same rear sight on many guns, 20-round mags holding 30 rounds, semi-auto shotguns impossibly cycling with dragonsbreath ammo. Before MW2 the Call of Duty series was known for its accuracy and attention to how the guns really work, as well as the weapons for the time periods the games take place in. And GunGunGun has a point, it's just going to be the same chaotic multiplayer as MW2, a bunch of stoners and kids making themselves feel better by corner camping, tubing, and quickscoping. Treyarch only seems to have done things to promote those playing techniques, not discourage them like they should. -Mandaloin
::: Cry some more then? It's pretty obvious that you don't like the gameplay style. There are many, MANY gamers out there that would disagree with your tastes, and those are the ones that Treyarch is aiming to please (along with those on the fence over some of MW2s perks/killstreaks which were changed for the better). So what if it's not all realistic, the key point in a video game is if it's any fun to play or not. Last I checked, I couldn't actually survive crashing a Ferrari at 100MPh at Laguna Seca either, but it is sure as hell fun to play a game that allows me to get back up and try again without it being "game over" for me. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Meh, quit complaining, it's a video game. If you want realism go play ARMA or Operation Flashpoint. It does look better than MW2, that I will say. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I just love how people can criticize a game, when yet, they haven't even played it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 21:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I just love how people keep saying that. We don't have to play it to criticize what we've already seen of it. -Mandaloin
:: Yeah, you kinda do. If you have not actually sat down and played this game, you're only assuming it's gonna be bad by just looking at it. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Medal of Honor pwns Call of Duty in every way. ''That's'' my opinion of Black Ops. Anyone who doesn't like it can go cry a river. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well whatdaya know, the one I missed. Good find. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

They are Skorpians in 9x18mm without the stocks. Looks awesome to me.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

: We've already seen what the Skorpions look like, these look alot like that OTs-02 Kiparis --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 00:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:I presume the KS-23 is likely to have heavy recoil, small capacity (3 rounds) and a delay between shots. Also can't the KS-23 also function as a Grenade launcher as well firing firing a variety of shells such as Tear Gass, Flash Bang and White Phosphorous? I would marry Treyarch if they finally added Slugs to this baby! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Draco i think your my new friend. JK. i always wondered why they never put chokes or slugs as attachments for guns in video games.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

::They have added slugs to some games. But to name few, Bad Company 2, Fallout: New Vegas and STALKER are one's that come to mind, though I don't think even the majority of game designers (save for a small collection of the minority) that know what a Choke on a shotgun even is. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a AR-18 but don't we have the full assault rifle list?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: It's not an AR-18, the recievers don't match. It looks more like the 63, although it doesn't appear to have the ventilated barrel housing. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

After actually looking at a 63, this gun looks like it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Stoner63-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stoner 63 in rifle and LMG configuration.]]
[[Image:COD7Stonerpossible.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a screencap from gameplay footage of the possible Stoner 63. Compared to the stock image I'd say it is.]] . - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reflex sights==
Just wondering about the reflex sights, were they even developed back during the periods the game is set in? Another thing I was curious about is that the M4 Spectre in the list shows it having a reflex mounted on it. While it is using a side-mount, wouldn't the stock get in the way if you try to fold/unfold it since it folds to the top of the gun?--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
: '''1,''' Yeah, i am almost sure reflex sight existed during cold war. There is even patent on internet, dating it into seventies.
: '''2,''' All SMG´s have apparently stocks removed for some reason. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Not exactly on topic==
Alright, I am having a pretty bad day with dealing all the crap my professors are throwing at me and then my roommate says something that is kinda pissing me off so I am gonna rant a little bit. Last night(this early morning actually, around 1), he decided not to do his homework and decided to watch a show about snipers and the amazing feats they pulled off including one about Hatchcock. It was pretty interesting until he ruined it after watching a sniper take out VietCongs using kentucky windage with his scoped (now busted) m14 after his helo was shot down by saying, "So what, I don't see how that is impressive, I can do that all the time in Modern Warfare 2." Now he wants to go buy Black Ops when it comes out because he wants to "pwn some noobs" and all the feature look really realistic just like in MW2. He goes on to say that he wants to become a Ranger because he thinks it is easy enough since he is smart since he was on a debate team, ran for state assembly, etc. and strong because he can do MMA and finishes that with he can drink a lot beer. I give him credit for having the balls to join the Rangers but at the same time, it feels like he is insulting them. Sorry for writing all this but I was having a shitty day and just had to let is all out and I figured it since he was talking of COD, that I would put it here. Alright, rant over, feeling much better now. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, is actual real military service gonna shit on his cereal, lets see just how easy pwning noobs is when your actually getting shot at, oh and apparently theres this thing called recoil in reality, suprising i know. Oh and no respawns either. On an actual related note this game is gonna suck, I do love the return of the 1911 to COD i just can forgive the erronious amounts of just horrendous anacronisms, and the flamethrower undermount is so retarded --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a fun idea, hand a CoD fanboy an AR-15 with the bolt locked back, hand them a magazine, and tell them to fire it. See how long it takes them to realize that the weapon isn't magically ready to fire just because you slap in a fresh magazine. You get five points for every ten seconds it takes before they realize what the bolt catch is. You get bonus points if they pull the charging handle.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 06:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Oh and pop that elusive saftey on too, just for good measure.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 09:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they would give the back stock a flat slap after loading a fresh mag and charged the gun like a real badass.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better would be actually getting through the first phase of basic to even hold a weapon.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be even more surprised to find a gamer doing a proper tactical reload, instead of letting a mag drop to the ground and becoming confused as to why it doesn't magically appear back in his pouches.

first of id slap the shit out of your roommate , the second he hit basic hes gonna be crying for mommy shitting him self , and i cant wait for the m1911 to make its return .simmons 8492

==Kinda liking the weapons list==

Well, they are things you never see in other games, although the awp and famas and spas12 can go, and id love the a1 to be full auto. But, a revovler that makes sense, old school submachine guns, a pump action grenade launcher its kind of cool.

I do wish they didn't decided the nearly the same weapons from the other MW series like the AUG, SPAS-12, or the MP5K. They could have picked other pump action shotguns like the Remington 870, or another weapon aside from the MP5K. They should have stuck with the full size MP5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do have the Ithaca 37. And at least the AUG is a rifle and not a LMG in this one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I do know most of these guns really shouldn't exist but you can believe I will have a ton of fun with the under-barrel flamethrower with a smily face reflex sight on the G11(they better not mess up the G11).--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

At this moment, I am not bothered about weapons that don't exist at the time, but more on original choices. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda of agree with you there, sorta disappointed though that they made the M16A1 burst fire in Multiplayer. Though it's hard to say exactly when all these guns appear, while yes we were told it was starting in Vietnam but IT could possibly star in other timezones too. From what I've gathered, you play as multiple characters so it's possible you could play as multiple characters in different time periods, 1 in Vietnam, another in Cold War and maybe a few fictional war zones in the early 2000's [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, it seems that original M16 without forward assist is in game. Anyway - As far as i know M16A1 fired in 3-round bursts, no ?
:::The A1 is full-auto. The A2 and A4 variants fire bursts. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 10:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont like how they use the correct 20 round mag model but make it hold 30. Hopefully the burst/30 rounds is online only, like in cod 4 where the m16 was full auto SP but burst MP.

== CZ75 ==

JUst curious, does anyone think that the CZ-75 might be the Automatic version of the weapon. Granted Treyarch wasn't going to add Machine Pistols but since it's the last handgun in the list and it costs 750 credits would it be possible? I mean Bad Company 2 had their 93R as their last unlock which was a machine pistol [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well, it doesnt have to be automatic. CZ-75 is superior to all other handguns from list in real life.( maybe besides Colt Python ) - Its better than Makarov, ASP and even M1911 in all "stats" . Its probably best 9mm handgun.

::Not too sure as to how it would be better than a .45 caliber 1911. I can see it being better than the ASP or Makarov due to their small magazines of 7-8 rounds compared to the 75's 16 (9mm). Of course it does open the slight possibility that an Automatic conversion kit is available as an attachment [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Its not just about calibre or mag capacity. CZ-75 is more accurate, bullet is faster and i think its lighter. Anyway - Its sure that heavier cartrigde is allways better :) But i would take CZ75 to combat instead of M1911.

:Maybe the developers just read a lot of Gunsmith Cats, and took Rally's speech to heart, but the possibility that it may be an automatic makes me sigh. I hope it isn't.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, The CZ-75 is not more accurate than a 1911
Secondly, there is no "best" 9x19 millimeter pistol, its all personal preference,
Thirdly, the .45 is a better combat round due to its lager grain bullet and more dispersion of energy on contact,
and Lastly, while caliber is not the most important factor, the .45 A.C.P is superior to the 9x19mm because the 9 is a small lightweight bullet, while the .45 is a large heavyweight bullet.
P.S. sign your posts.
~~ PunisherDave
: Well, i tested both CZ75 and 1911. I was doing better with CZ. Anyway - I would take it into combat because of for example mag size. And 9mm bullets are way much more common... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Military 1911s almost universally sucked, with ultra loose fitting parts and 7 pound triggers, and nearly useless sights. 1911s in the civilian world, or the uber built special forces 1911, are nice. But your average GI 1911....not so. Im sure a cz75 would kick its ass in accuracy and reliability if you wanted to use more than ball ammo.
~~k9870
: Ágreed. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Those old 1911's had one thing going for them though, there was a hell of a lot of abuse you could put them through before they malfunctioned. Reliability is a factor. I'm not saying the CZ isn't reliable though, don't get me wrong. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 17:24, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It was once said "the colt 45 will drop a charging bull dead in its tracks, but good luck hitting it.

Haha, while I do know (note how I'm just basing what I say off of research, so I am open to corrections. Hopefully one day I can fire a 1911 and CZ to really know the differences)that the old GI 1911's were often maligned for their lack of accuracy, I've also heard people say it isn't that big of a deal considering that it is a handgun. In a military capacity, the pistol is there when shit gets up close and personal and you need to defend yourself. When the guy is close enough that you can see the whites of his eyes, I'm sure you're not gonna have to be a deadeye to land shots on target. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 18:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:My buddy's father was a Marine in Vietnam, and at least according to him, a lot had to do with the fact that their M1911s were just really old and worn. I would think that WWII production of M1911s would've been more enough to supply US forces for decades. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:29, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Ive heard they manuactured no new 1911s after ww2, and that they just swapped parts, keeping frame and slide. They were loose fitting, and rattled in holsters. a 7 pound single action trigger, and the sights are just awful, especially against a dark background, cheap 3 dot sights would be better. problem is when people think "1911" they think of the sweet modern ones. To be fair, military berettas are beat to hell too, and have known countless people to say the sights were misaligned, magazines had weak springs, etc.
The cz-75 though, this is the first time ive seen it in a game, its pretty cool. I cant wait to use it, im sick of the beretta being the staple 9mm.
-k9870

Misaliged sights are from them getting knocked around and is easily fixed, worn mag springs is through use and they are easily replaced.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It is true that no new 1911's were purchased after World War 2. The same .45's that were on G.I's hips in Europe and The Pacific were being carried by U.S troops during the Gulf War in the 1990's. I've heard that the quality of the 1911's varied from gun to gun. Some were actually were in decent shape while others were just horrid. I don't believe they all suffered from the problems that K9870 is saying. Although I admit the standard sights on those guns are just awful, Most of the time I can't even make out the front post. A lot of soldiers I've read actually preferred a 1911 to the M9 and carried it when possible. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 22:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I dunno about the automatic thing... I myself have only heard of the machine pistol variant of the CZ-75 until very recently, plus I don't think it has a place in media history as a well-known variant of the CZ-75 (much less the CZ-75 itself, outside of [[Gunsmith Cats]]), so I don't know how Treyarch could know about it. Most of the guns they got ideas for the game from are the airsoft guns they had in their office, and last I checked no one makes an airsoft automatic CZ-75. So I would bet my money on that this is just the game's Desert Eagle - the pistol that outshines the rest (and it's about time! The CZ-75 is very underused in the media, IMO). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 09:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually I'm thinking that the Python is gonna be the Power Pistol of this game followed by the 1911. The CZ is probably gonna be the 9mm hi cap of the game.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I hope they dont neuter it for "balance" and that it is awesome, who cares if they need to balance with the makarov and asp? When you buy better guns, they should actually be better, not just change one stat for another.

==asp==

was the asp pistol any good or even used much? It seems the grips would be slippery and the sights are weird.
-k9879
:According to a random site I found, it wasn't used much. Originally, only 100 were produced, and if they are still produced, they are produced only on a pistol-by-pistol basis by custom gunsmiths or shops or something along those lines. The grips were smooth because the original designer intended it to be the ultimate concealed carry pistol, and the smooth grips helped this keeping the chance for the hand to snag on the grips while pulling, aiming, and firing to a minimum. In addition, the sights are weird but when aimed through, due to the design of the sight which employed fluorescent panels, would point at the target when properly aligned, making it easier to shoot reflexively. -Chris Hun7er 23:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

It is a S&W Model 39 which was a really good pistol. It looks as though its in the game because of the size of the Makarov. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:34, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Over-Under Shotgun ==

The Over-Under Shotgun AKA "Olympia", seems to be based off of a Browning Citori XT shotgun. I don't have a screenshot of the gun ingame (It was on the ground, and in HD, but the page was protected so I couldn't save it). But I am pretty sure that the Browning Citori XT is the real-life inspiration for the Olympia.

==Snubnose more accurate?==

What game designers brilliant idea was this? i could understand faster switch or something, but higher accuracy?

I think they were too stupid to make the snubnose version default and a 6" barrel an attachment. --[[User:Xarex|Xarex]]

A 4 inch python is a great service handgun, they should just have 4inch standard, the 6 inch a slower draw but more accurate, the snubby less accurate but faster draw, and unlocks like a nickle finish, different grips, pimp it out however you please.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would think that a snub makes it more accurate, this is just stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

On the COD wiki it shows the stat page ffor snubnose, down one bar power, up one accuracy.
k9870
:It could be that one of the developers mixed it up by mistake, if its not a mix up..... then why bother making videogames with real guns anymore if Treyarch is just going to make up stuff. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 08:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

::A snub nosed revolver has less power AND accuracy than a full size revolver.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

:::I mean in a video game sense (balance over realism), wouldn't a shorter barrel logically mean less accuracy? Sorry if what i said earlier sounded like i wanted Treyarch to make the game like real life. I just meant that Treyarch would be messing with logic to make a shorter barrel mean higher accuracy. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 12:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Black Ops Zombies weapons ==

For those that are wondering, this is the "teaser" trailer for Black Op's Zombie mode www.gknova6.com

So far the weapons I can see and identify are the HK21E, Ithaca M37 Trench Gun, a sniper rifle that looks similar to the design of an Artic Warfare Super Magnum and a tricked out AK variant.

Also it seems we may have Zombies in modern arenas like Office complexes and Labs [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Makarov with target sights. ==

I just noticed that the Makarov has target sights instead of the Military sights. That definatly seems wrong for Military use.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Military sights suck, im sure special forces would replace them.

Maybe but as I recall they didn't have target sights back then, plus they are Dropped by the Russians so they would have the military sights. They aren't that bad by the way, I have personal experiance with them and they are fine.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Saw on COD wiki "upgraded iron sights" as an attachment.

==Strela-3 Missile launcher! Latest Trailer!==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA 1:10 "Vehicle Lock-On Only". Also whats that gun at 2:03, it makes me confus
--[[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]] 17:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

==Who Wants to Ice Castro?==
Apparently you can do it, and there's even an achievement for doing it in one shot!
http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/call-of-duty-black-ops/news/call-of-duty-black-ops-achievementstrophies-reward-you-for-murdering-monkeys-and-fidel-castro/a-20101001104021980032/g-20100430155437473001
[[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 18:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

tell ya what , if you can do that cuba is gonna be pissed . simmons 8492
Oh, oh, I DO!!! :D [[User:Young Gun]]

== Clues from leaked Achievements list ==

Full list here. SPOILERS! [http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2]

:-The player gets to use TOW missiles in the game.
:: MP killstreak list is more than few days old.
:-It's DEFINITELY alternative history.
:: That was clear.
:-The Grim Reaper is in the campaign somewhere.
:: Seen already in one of first trailers.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== Found a PSG1 ==

[http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101001181628/callofduty/images/f/f9/Psg1better.jpg Here], to the right of the G2 --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 19:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

: '''Oh. My. God'''. 2000 Famas with flamethrower and M16 handguard. I beg it would sound crazy month ago. Looking forward MoH much more. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
:Sharp eye, dude. You have my respect. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:13, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63 RAK ==

@ 2:04 in the new trailer here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA] Looks like a PM-63 RAK
[[Image:BO Unidentified.JPG]]--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

:He he, monkey.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 02:31, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Galil ==

Hey guys, found an ingame image of the Galil, head over to the Black Ops page to see it --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Explanation for Impossibly Inaccurate Weapons ==

It is possible that the explanation is that not all of this game is 1968. By looking at www.gknova6.com viral ad site for black ops, reading the trophy/achievemnt list, and by piecing together all the nova-6 gas based missions I believe that one of the playable characters will be killed or severely wounded in the Bay of Pigs Invasion in Cuba(due to the Sacrifice tropy found on the list at http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2). The Gk Company or the Russian goverment then has him revived or recovered to relate what happened with his Ops in the year 1993(www.gknova6.com) or 2010(reveal) at Rebirth Island(Vozrozhdeniya Island) home to the Russian Microbioligical Warfare Unit(source wikipedia). This is not fannon look at the all the raw info of GKNOVA, the mission objectives of sevarel missions, and this GKNOVA6 Web site. Sorry for the long windedness but hopefully you will all understand.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 17:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

So...how does any of this new information explain the inaccurate weapons? The missions with the weapons in question like the AR-15 and the AUG really did took place in a time when they shouldn't exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:20, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Its confirmed this game is alternate reality/timeline so inaccurate weapons is less of a deal.
[[User:K9870|K9870]]

I was more or less talking about way off ones like the WA2000, FAMAS Felin, Artic Warfare, and Spectre M4.Trust me Im not saying thats a good excuse for F-ing up with the CAR-15 hybrid thing and the production "protoype" AUG but that might be the excuse for the G11 and all other post 1970 weapons.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 04:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course there's always the point that this is just a video game that has events based off of real life occurrences too... [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Model 1887 is back ==
In before complaining. Seen in the newest trailer around the 00:42 second mark.
http://kotaku.com/5661296/a-look-at-black-ops-single-player-gameplay-and-story

Definitely a shout out to Terminator 2 there. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 02:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It has been confirmed for single player campaign only, by trearch. Dunno about zombies --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh-ho, my friend, they are here. The best part is that the zombies are still of the Nazi variety. http://www.gknova6.com/agegate.php

:I mean dont know if its on zombies--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Only in one sequence within the campaign, don't think it's in zombies --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

What did enough people bitch about "how unfair" it is by blaming their lack of skill on "noob guns"?
:Honestly, I can understand why people complained about Akimbo 1887s. They definitely weren't balanced, since you could fire them almost constantly by staggering your shots until you had to reload. They also had almost insane range (For a video game shotgun), and very high power. I was fine with the single 1887, but I was glad that they nerfed the Akimbos. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 17:02, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

And I hope the zombies arent nazis, i want to fight commie zombies......

:Looks more like there may be a possibility of fighting not only Commie Zombies but Vietcong Zombies and regular civi zombies too, some of those screens look like their wearing office uniforms and lab coats besides military armor. In some ways I'm glad the 1887 is in singleplayer but at the same time I was kinda hoping it would also be added in multiplayer minus the silly akimbo models, they just looked wrong in my opinion. Also sign your posts with "~ ~ ~ ~" without quotations and spaces. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Deer Hunter ==
Looks like theres a scene in the new trailer similiar to the roulette scene in The Deer Hunter, I wonder how that will work in the game. (just a cut scene or a playable moment?) --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 03:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

'MOW" haha that shit gets me every time . simmons 8492
:Nips? Wow, you're doubly ignorant. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

*Actually, there is no proof the Vietcong actually did anything like that, and it is widely agreed among film critics that the Russian Roulette scenes are actually allegories for the American involvement in Vietnam. We also have a few Asian members on this site, so you should keep your racism to yourself. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

:Well I'm not Vietnamese, so that won't offend me. Besides, sticks and stones. I'm more American than I am Asian [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Dont want to look bad to future members, i know some is just joking but some people take everything seriously.

know what , your right . my bad guys . ill take it down. simmons8492

== Walther MPL confirmed ==

Found a video on G4 containing confirmation that the MPL SMG is in-game. For reference it's the gun painted all green http://g4tv.com/videos/49177/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops---Jungle-Multiplayer-Map-Exclusive/ [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 16:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== 'Grip attachment' on Sub Machine Guns ==

I've heard that the grip attachment on SMGs in fact deploys the stock. That would explain why they all seem to be removed/folded ont the SMGs.

:This is most proven on the Skorpion, attaching a grip actually attaches the wire folding stock [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:24, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

==Is it just me...==

or is using the same flip up sights on every damn gun just friggin lazy?

[[User:k9870|k9870]]

It's an attachment called 'improved iron sights'. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:32, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

No, there standard in game sights. The improved adds outiline and dots to pistols, the flip up sights on guns is laz and trying to look tacticool. Even the m60 has them

And because the standard factory iron-sights for the M60 and the FAMAS, well, SUCK. I really was not a fan of the M60's irons in COD4 and the Battlefield Bad Company games. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:19, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
: Agreed. Kinda bugged by the repetitive sights on some guns myself, but I'm not gonna let it get me down. Most of the guns have their own, correct sights. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, thats Treyarch development style. Put everything they want in any time etape. This game is already dead to me - actually, MoH with its 5 hour campaign is much better than MW2 and Black Ops ('' MW2 with different textures and anachronistic guns'' )
:: Wow dude, you must be from the future seeing as how you are able to form this opinion with a game that hasn't even been released yet. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Meh, I usually play games because they are fun. MOH was pretty realisitc, (compared to Call of Duty anyway...) but it definetly wasn't fun (online). I'll just revel in the ridiculousness of it all... Akimbo HS-10 FTW
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I just finally see these old obscure guns in games and they put lameass sights on, BTW medal of honors single player was cool (ending was abrupt and anticlimactic though) but online is glitchy and feels unpolished. I want to play COD.

Not really sure about the LAME part, but I'd rather have USABLE sights even if they aren't the originals and seem LAME in other people's eyes. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:46, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Is it so hard to ask for variety, im sure the stock sights are usable for a game, i may just use an AK online since it doesnt have flip ups.

Is it so much to ask them to give us variety in the same type of gun, like stock and stockless MP5 or underfolder AK. performances, it makes no difference, but I like variety in what you pick to shoot with. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

== *SPOILER* Zombie Mode Characters. ==

Hey, just saw the intro video for zombie mode. It seems you play as John F Kennedy, Richard Nixon, Some CIA Bloke and Fidel Castro... Heres the link:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbhcHCP24g]r
::That fourth guy would appear to be Robert McNamara, JFK and LBJ's Sec of Defense. Why not just LBJ? Or Bobby Kennedy? They couldn't find two voice actors to do bad Bahston/Kennedy accents? ("Er-eh, toss me another maaahg!") --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Awsome.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 23:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

: These guys are only on bonus map that you get after finishing campaign. There are some random US sosldiers fighting Nazi Zombies in normal zombie mode. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Damn, i love cigars but hate commies. [[user:k9870|k987]]

Zombies better be commies, killing nazis got old i want to shoot commie zobies.

:Is it just me, or would LBJ be better replaced by LHO? (Lee Harvey Oswald.)
::Only if he could only carry three bullets at one time. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:47, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

=="escape the past"==

Its a achievemnet listed, does this imply time travel?
-k9870

Or that something one of the characters did is going to come back to bite them in the arse. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

If it's time travel I'm tearing someone at Treyarch a new one--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:Don't get so defensive over a title. It could be a really cool section, forcing the player to battle his way out of his hometown. Or, maybe time travel. >.> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 23:31, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Nah I meant it all in good humour XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I highly doubt that it's actual time travel. From what we've seen and has been speculated, the majority of the campaign will take place as memories of Black Ops missions that the main characters participated in. No time travel, just photographic memories. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

==New Videos confirm various unknowns==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrNoLz4gC60&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=dvWBYFCAcck]

Among a few things, this video confirms that the G11 is burst fire only, and at the exceptional rate we expect. The poster has posted about many other of the weapons, also confirming that Full Auto is a pistol attachment for the CV-75. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:19, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Golden Guns are Fugly ==

I mean take a look at this!

[[Image:Golden_PSG1.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden PSG1]]

[[Image:Golden_WA2000.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden WA2000]]

[[Image:Golden_Stakeout.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden Ithaca Stakeout]]

[[Image:Golden_HS-10.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden HS-10]]

Also, it would appear the the Ithaca M37 IS the Stakeout version and not the Trench Gun version we initially believed [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:39, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:I thought golden guns were fugly before. >> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:That doesn't even look like real gold, it looks spray painted on! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The gold guns look terribad, probably will avoid using gold camo altogether :C --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 00:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Why spend money on gun colours, when you can just buy gun attachements? :D [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:^ This. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Eh, still gonna make my Duke of New York class with a gold Mac-10 and a nickel (I swear I saw a nickel or 'silver' camo) Python. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Not sure it was confirmed, I think there was rumors flying around but nothing concrete. Besides, I don't think camo patterns can be applied to secondaries, which is lame. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Have you heard that even ACOG´s can be added on pistols ? This game is gonna suck.
:::Because the fact that you can put a scope on a high powered revolver (Something that's doable and often useful in real life) means that the game automatically sucks. Thank you for your insight. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Only python can take an acog. And as to golden guns you only use them if you want to and it looks like you can do it for individual guns instead of the whole damn class its in.

The Python's recoil with the ACOG looks pretty balanced, I'm not too bothered about it. Besides, is pretty cool that Treyarch are doing something a bit different. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:I just added pictures of all the golden guns, they are pretty gross. I would never waste any fake money to buy them.

==just watched zomie gameplay==

pentagon level, the zombies were amix of original nazi zombies and pentagon workers turned to zombies (were wearing shirt/tie)

Why cant they have communist zombies, seriously?

[[user:k9870|k9870]

:I guess they don't want to offend anyone who might be communist. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I still hope there's some Nazi ones left. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Nazis made sense in ww2, but thats been done, we want something new, commie zombies.

From what I've seen, the WaW characters are returning to fight straight Nazi zombies, JFK and friends fight Pentagon zombies in the Pentagon, and there's another with Russian zombies in Winter camo (that's shown on that GKNOVA6 website right now). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The JFK/Nixon/Castro/McNamara level is a bonus level at the end of the game, not the actual zombies mode. The real zombies mode features some new guys in some labs (as seen on GKNOVA6) most probably russian special forces. It will include communist zombies. and the characters from W@w are in it if you buy hardened --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 11:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I hope the pentagon level is 4 player co op so i can play with friends

==Interview with the military advisor==
Here is the link to the interview with the Call of Duty: Black Ops military advisor if anyone is interested in reading it. [http://www.3news.co.nz/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-military-advisor-interview/tabid/418/articleID/185313/Default.aspx] --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 16:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, that Advisor doesnt know anything about weapons. Or any kind of warfare. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Of course your in a position to judge him right...--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, god forbid Treyarch try and make a fun game, instead of a military simulator. Fun? What's that?! [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 10:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: But game can be fun even with realistic weapons or good AI of enemies.
Unfortunately, Treyarch went in MW2 way and instead of making enemy AI better, they spawned twice as much of them.
:::No one says COD was ever a military simulator, but a M16/M203 turning up during the Bay of Pigs invasion would seem to be a "bit" out of place. Now that we know the singleplayer is set between 1961 and 1968, any arguments about the game taking place in some era that justifies the anachronisms has become irrelevant.

==Just putting this out there==
Does anyone else believe that now that the game's actually out and we can get higher quality screenshots, that the old low quality caps be removed? Or maybe the entire page be redone so it looks a little more consistent because you have a low quality shot from an online video then a high quality ingame cap from the game. I'm just saying it probably would look better. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 01:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the low-quality screencaps should be removed ASAP. I'll try to post some as I go through the single-player campaign, but eventually, they too may need to be replaced. I'm running it on 960x600 with no AA for playability. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:This page also need screencaps from the Zombies mode. I was unable to get the Thundergun (a two-shot sound wave gun that resembles a modern rocket launcher) and the Ray gun due to the constant waves of zombies that may sneak up on you and kill you easily, large number of barriers (too many to defend), and the poor weapons you receive in the early rounds. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Impressions So Far? ==

What do you guys thinks of the game so far? My only dissapointment is that they have decided to remove the front sight when you use optics. Other than that, the guns look fantastic.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:I think it's alright, I haven't played campaign yet since the game is my roommate's so we've only been playing on Live. I think the only thing I'm not really liking so far is that they took away the slip-screen Special Ops. As for the guns, pretty much the same as yours along with the whole flame thrower thing, I just think it is rather ridiculous.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 06:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Boring. SP is short, unoriginal ('' This wont matter as MoH had short SP too. But it was atleast fun. Atmospheric and realistic fun. While its boring, unatmospheric and completely unoriginal in BO'' ) . There isnt anything like AI. Too many boring scripts. To the guns : They are anachronistic and unrealistic. It feels strange encountering NVA with Spas-12. MP is same like in MW2 ('' Read - Crappy'' ) with tons of spammed killstreasks etc.
:This game deserves '''5/10''', nothing more. Oh, and do not think i have something against Treyarch. I hated MW2 too. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I like it. SP was a bit of a mind fuck at times, and the AI could have been better, but 98% of the time I was having fun. MP is mostly good, better than MW2, though over the last 12 hours I started seeing some tubers. Yes it's anachronistic and ridiculous, but if I wanted an exact simulation of war I'd join the CF. Aside from some maps, I like it far more (In every way) than MW2. Galil w/ red dot & suppressor + 1911 w/ extended mags = awesomeness. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 15:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The story is actually pretty decent, better than the sponataneous betrayals of MW2. The voice acting is also, suprisingly, very well done. I really don't play multiplayer alot, but it's more balanced than MW2. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 15:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The constant flashes on the screen is annoying as hell. Almost gave me a seizure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The campaign was a bit hard to follow at first, but it comes together nicely in the end. Yes, the weapons are ludicrous (not even ridiculous, beyond ridiculous,) but oh well, I can live with it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Pretty much, I'll give this game a 9.2/10. The multiplayer and content is better and improved from Modern Warfare 2, but the campaign is a bit too short (only 15 missions :() and there's some minor complicated glitches in frame rate. Overall, the game is much better than Modern Warfare 2 and a good recommendation. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:24, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

To be honest guys I just ignore the ancronistic weaponry as it really doesnt matter in the long run. Lets face it, saying a game will suck because theres some AUGs in the 'nam era is just plain ludacris. If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops. Now that thats out of my system I can say with all honesty that this game is very addicting and its finnally a challenge to kill people(5-6 shots for a kill rather than 3-4 shots a kill in MW2). This game is a way more fun experince than MW2 and finally shows the potential of Teyarch development team. ---P226 21:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

: I agree, you people take the weapons accuracy way too seriously. What the hell did you expect from a mainstream video game? The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful. At least this games fun. Hate it for any other reason, that's fine I'll respect that. Hate it for innaccuracies when you really should be used to by know, and that's just ridiculous. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:: You and P226 have both just contradicted yourselves. On the one hand you state it's ridiculous to say a game sucks because of the guns, but then go on to say games that have accurate depictions of guns suck. If the game is fun, it's going to be fun whether the guns are accurate or not. I can't believe that if Black Ops had the correct weapons in it that it suddenly wouldn't be fun anymore. Perhaps you can give an explanation of how this would be so?
::''If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops.''
::I have to totally disagree with this statement. If Treyarch had used firearms of the period, we would have ended up with weapons that, to my knowledge, have never before been used in a video game. I have mentioned in other posts how the Remington 7188, an automatic shotgun that was really used by the NAVY seals in Vietnam could have been used in Black Ops. Instead we get the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time, and has been used in a million other video games. Which is the "bland, unoriginal" gun here? I'm gonna have to say the SPAS-12. Of course, if Treyarch had used the period correct shotgun the game would all of a sudden not be fun anymore and would suck, right?
::''The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful.'' I find this statement hard to believe. Would you care to back this up with some examples?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 04:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I never said having a game with correct guns of that period is going to be bad, I was trying to make a point that if Black Ops were to have just your standard m16's,Ak47's and colt Commando's, it would be just some normal Vietnam game. Also, all the guns above have been done to death in every video game none to man (though they are nice to have to fill in weapon slots), in my opinion I find the Galil as sweet( and different) Assualt Rifle, Ancronistic or not. If your the kind of guy who can't get over the fact that your using guns lke the AK'''74'''u and the CZ'''75''' in 1968, then this isn't the game for you. ---P226 18:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

== Pistol grips ==

Anyone noticed that there isnt gun without pistol grip ? Jeez. They put one even on Mosin. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Mosin and ppsh dont have them, characters just hold them like they do.

: Maybe in first person. But mosin has actually pistol grip when its in hands of NPC´s.

No, they just hold their hand as if they were, when its on their backs or they die and drop it doesnt, its probably due to all other characters carrying pistol grips and they dont want too redo characte rmodeling.

== Gold weapon images ==

Do we really need all those pictures of the gold camo? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah. It shows how silly and disguisting tis game is.
Sign your posts. But, I agree that the gold weapon pictures are rather unnecssary. If someone has the PC version of the game, taking pictures of the standard weapons in multiplayer would be greatly appreciated.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 20:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-11-14T21:24:36Z

P226: /* Impressions So Far? */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AK74u==

In game, it is a ak74u, not an aks74u. U=carbine S=folding stock.
The in game models are all mssing stocks, so are only an ak74u, as they are called in game. It should be noted as such, im sick of having to re change the main page and want to get this cleared up/

I don't care if there's no stock, there's no such designation as "AK-74u". Also, try unlocking the "grip" attachment for it. That adds the stock back on. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

AK74 is base model, u means shortened, s means folding stock, etc. So chopping stock off makes it a 74u

I am fully aware of what the designations mean. Find me an actual AK-74 carbine produced from the factory without the side-folder and actually labelled "AK-74u" (cannot be simply an AKS-74U with the stock detached), and I'll gladly change it back. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:16, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

It doesnt matter how it left the factory, it matters how you modify it. If you put a 4.25 inch barrel and slide on a full sized 1911 do you call it a government model or a commander? I mean its a commander model but left the factory a government.....

This isn't the Call of Duty Wiki, kid. We don't promote misinformation as fact like they do there. We refer to and classify firearms as they are in the ''real'' world, not the ''game'' world. That means referring to it by its ''actual'' name (AKS-74U, not AK74U) and classification (carbine, not SMG). It doesn't matter what it's called in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Im trying to put the corerect designation, maybe even note there is a ak74 u and a aks74u, remember that we cant say a gun has a folding stock if it has NO stock. a 7.5 inch barreled ar with a stock is a carbine, taking the stock of its an ar pistol, not a ar stockless rifle.

==Accuracy of Game==
I have Black Ops and have beaten the campaign, while the missions range from 1961 to 1968 the game is LOADED with anachronisms, im not sure an alternate reality would explain for having FAMAS F1s ( ''In fact, FELIN´s'' --[[User:Werc|Werc]]) and AUG A1s in the 1960s. Also they have the M16 in Vietnam with a so-called Masterkey system on it, im not sure that they had Masterkeys in Vietnam but it looks to be an Ithaca 37 stakeout attatched to the M16, also nearly ALL of the NVA soldiers are armed with SPAS-12 which is completely wierd. Any comments from people who have played the game?
: Yeah, you are right. If this game would be atleast fun. But its boring, MP is even worse than in MW2 ( ''And MW2 had worst MP of all'' ''times'' ), SP is boring like hell. There is nothin such as AI. Storyline is boring an unoriginal. Weapons are both anachronistic and unrealistic. Nothing like kicback even on Mosin Nagant ? '''THIS GAME SUCKS, just like MW2 did''' --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Do you get a nickel from EA every time you rag on the game? And there are many things I can say about the story, but "unoriginal" is not one of them. I have yet to play another FPS where the player is mentally ill and one of the main characters is merely a hallucination. (Unless there's an "A Beautiful Mind" FPS I don't know about.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

well i enjoyed it , and if i tape a shotgun under the barrel of my M16 why cant i call it a masterkey . simmons 8492

I know that most of the weapons in the game are anachronistic and that's a little bit sad for a cold war game, but a lot of those firearms are never seen in video games, that's one thing that made me like it. Perhaps,I enjoyed the stroryline from the begining to the end, I love the Zombie mode and the multiplayer is great (at least when I play with my friends). --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 19:19, November 11 2010 (UTC)

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

It's an Intermediate rifle, like the P90 or MP7A1, slightly smaller caliber but with an effective range between a rifle's range and a sub gun's range.
:No, that is an incorrect comparison. The AK-74U is just a compact rifle since it fires an assault rifle round, not an assault rifle "styled" rifle. The P90 and the MP7 are designed from the ground up to be PDWs that fired ammo that are necked down rifle rounds instead of pistol rounds designed with the same armor piercing power as the full size rifle. It's like the Colt Model 733 or the 933 or any of the other shorten assault rifle variants. A submachine gun is always compared to weapons that fire pistol caliber ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

But weapons like the SAM-R use the same caliber as 933 and 733, 5.56x45, and the SAM-R is used as a DMR. i doubt the 5.45x39 could be a marksman rifle cartridge. even though its longer than the 5.7 or 4.6, its range and accuracy are not that of a true assault rifle.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==
Hey guys, Zombie mode on Black Ops includes 2 maps, each bringing there own unique cast of characters
-Kind Der Untoten-
-All classic Nazi Zombies Characters

-Five-
-Fidel Castro (Holding Colt Python)
-John F. Kennedy (Holding China Lake Launcher)
-Richard Nixon
-Character w/ Glasses and Suit (Forget His Name)

These maps i have not played that much but from what i have there are these weapons
-Kind Der Untoten-
-Olympia (Over & Under)
-Walther MPL
-PM-63
-MP-40
-Mystery Box (Any number of assorted weapons)

-Five-
-Olympia
-Walther MPL

-will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

its been confermed . for news hit up black ops 24/7 . they dont have 100 percent accurate weapons lists but its the best site out there

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''
Lee Enfield SMLE/ Jungle Carbine, M1 carbine, M2 carbine, SKS, Webley, Skorpion, M1 grand, RPG-2[[User:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

if anything there going to have those guns , and ruinthem buy adding rails and underbarell shit.simmons8492

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.
Some people are still saying it could be WASR-2. It's not a WASR-2. WASR-2's are new production (within the past few years) rifles from Romania made ONLY for semi-automatic use and for importation into the US. There's no way on God's green earth that the rifle in game is a WASR-2.

More than likely this is just an AK-47 with an incorrectly modeled mag. They ARE modeling these things after airsoft guns ya know.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

im not sure but with those ironsites id say a g36 . i hope they brink the one from COD4 back i loved it. simmons 8492

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

well am i the only one who thinks WAW did a horible job of represting the stoping power of the .45 . i mean the gun does nothing in the game , but in real life its a man stoper. simmons 8492

Game balance. That's why [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

i under stand but the walther is better in that game than the 1911. at least the .45 in COD4 had some good stopingpower to it . i know its a diffrent model but still . simmons 8492

and luchy for me , the boys at trayarc made the M1911A1 the manstoper that it is .SEMPER FI!!! simmons 8492

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

well the ak-74 would be good , but no one would notice the difference. most kids playing this game dont know am1911a1 from a m14 . id like to see both

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

a littel of topic but, that guy has one of the shitties grips that i have ever seen

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

i dont think he has the globe and anchor tat , but because of him im going to grow a mullet and wear a head band shhhing people. simmons8492

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

youd be suprised what i can do with one hand. simmond 8492

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Grenade launchers are balanced, mininum detonation range, slow reload, not very accurate (need to arc) only 2 rounds, and besides, use it to take down campers.

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

Yes. Confermed on callofduty.com

as lon as he goes all predator on some one like in wold at war , im fine with in, and being as that hes a soviet why is he with the us? defector or what? simmons 8492

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Not to mention it's impossible to actually fire one with live rounds. -Mandaloin

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

just for that tom jane is going to kill you with a bow and arrow. good job . and the balistic knive uses high tention (missspeled) springs, so id call it a projectial if anything. not to mension that , if you look at the rock on this site , it has the little dart shot gun that nick cage uses in the begining. simmons 8492

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

first , i had a kid tell me that the moddel 1887 is a rifel , based only on the fact that it has a lever and not a pump. i own no guns and also only pop on this site to win bets with my brother but i know that. but dose any one know if the m16 or famas have selector switches that can be changed?

Yes they do. The FAMAS can shoot on semi auto, and the M16a4 also has semi auto.[[user:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:While looking at the Create-a-class 2.0 vid shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzSImy-xm4, I found it rather odd for the choice that Treyarch was going with on the weapon selection for the pistols at the 0:23 mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to place the Makarov PM as the starting pistol because of it's weak 9x18mm cartridge? I'd personally would have liked to see it like this:

*Makarov PM
*ASP
*1911
*Colt Python
*CZ75

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

. reality and videogames are like an amish hacker , never gonna happen . this is going to be FUCKIN EPIC . simmons 8492

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

it looks like famas had a field day and fucked everything up . the pig dosent deserve that . and for all the idiots out there reading this and thinking"whats the pig, can you use farm animals as weapona" the pig is the name for the m60 , that gun hold a special place in my heart . simmons 8492

It really looks like they just took a lot of stuff from mw2 (like those god damned iron sights) and whats the deal putting Troy industries sight on an AUG? How stupid does that even look, couldnt hit shit in real life cuz there is no spacing between the front and rear post! Come on Treyarch i tough u could do better --[[User:Patrickgt|℗Λ✝r][©Κ]] 02:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/FAMAS_Felin_501556_fh000002.jpg [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

in the same video they show parts froma game called "gun game " the player swaps the M14 for the m136 . im gonna go all jessie ventura up in that bitch . simmons 8492

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::The guns don't make sense at all, not just because of the era. I mean flamethrower attachments, handheld miniguns, the same rear sight on many guns, 20-round mags holding 30 rounds, semi-auto shotguns impossibly cycling with dragonsbreath ammo. Before MW2 the Call of Duty series was known for its accuracy and attention to how the guns really work, as well as the weapons for the time periods the games take place in. And GunGunGun has a point, it's just going to be the same chaotic multiplayer as MW2, a bunch of stoners and kids making themselves feel better by corner camping, tubing, and quickscoping. Treyarch only seems to have done things to promote those playing techniques, not discourage them like they should. -Mandaloin
::: Cry some more then? It's pretty obvious that you don't like the gameplay style. There are many, MANY gamers out there that would disagree with your tastes, and those are the ones that Treyarch is aiming to please (along with those on the fence over some of MW2s perks/killstreaks which were changed for the better). So what if it's not all realistic, the key point in a video game is if it's any fun to play or not. Last I checked, I couldn't actually survive crashing a Ferrari at 100MPh at Laguna Seca either, but it is sure as hell fun to play a game that allows me to get back up and try again without it being "game over" for me. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Meh, quit complaining, it's a video game. If you want realism go play ARMA or Operation Flashpoint. It does look better than MW2, that I will say. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I just love how people can criticize a game, when yet, they haven't even played it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 21:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I just love how people keep saying that. We don't have to play it to criticize what we've already seen of it. -Mandaloin
:: Yeah, you kinda do. If you have not actually sat down and played this game, you're only assuming it's gonna be bad by just looking at it. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Medal of Honor pwns Call of Duty in every way. ''That's'' my opinion of Black Ops. Anyone who doesn't like it can go cry a river. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well whatdaya know, the one I missed. Good find. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

They are Skorpians in 9x18mm without the stocks. Looks awesome to me.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

: We've already seen what the Skorpions look like, these look alot like that OTs-02 Kiparis --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 00:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:I presume the KS-23 is likely to have heavy recoil, small capacity (3 rounds) and a delay between shots. Also can't the KS-23 also function as a Grenade launcher as well firing firing a variety of shells such as Tear Gass, Flash Bang and White Phosphorous? I would marry Treyarch if they finally added Slugs to this baby! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Draco i think your my new friend. JK. i always wondered why they never put chokes or slugs as attachments for guns in video games.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

::They have added slugs to some games. But to name few, Bad Company 2, Fallout: New Vegas and STALKER are one's that come to mind, though I don't think even the majority of game designers (save for a small collection of the minority) that know what a Choke on a shotgun even is. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a AR-18 but don't we have the full assault rifle list?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: It's not an AR-18, the recievers don't match. It looks more like the 63, although it doesn't appear to have the ventilated barrel housing. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

After actually looking at a 63, this gun looks like it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Stoner63-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stoner 63 in rifle and LMG configuration.]]
[[Image:COD7Stonerpossible.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a screencap from gameplay footage of the possible Stoner 63. Compared to the stock image I'd say it is.]] . - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reflex sights==
Just wondering about the reflex sights, were they even developed back during the periods the game is set in? Another thing I was curious about is that the M4 Spectre in the list shows it having a reflex mounted on it. While it is using a side-mount, wouldn't the stock get in the way if you try to fold/unfold it since it folds to the top of the gun?--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
: '''1,''' Yeah, i am almost sure reflex sight existed during cold war. There is even patent on internet, dating it into seventies.
: '''2,''' All SMG´s have apparently stocks removed for some reason. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Not exactly on topic==
Alright, I am having a pretty bad day with dealing all the crap my professors are throwing at me and then my roommate says something that is kinda pissing me off so I am gonna rant a little bit. Last night(this early morning actually, around 1), he decided not to do his homework and decided to watch a show about snipers and the amazing feats they pulled off including one about Hatchcock. It was pretty interesting until he ruined it after watching a sniper take out VietCongs using kentucky windage with his scoped (now busted) m14 after his helo was shot down by saying, "So what, I don't see how that is impressive, I can do that all the time in Modern Warfare 2." Now he wants to go buy Black Ops when it comes out because he wants to "pwn some noobs" and all the feature look really realistic just like in MW2. He goes on to say that he wants to become a Ranger because he thinks it is easy enough since he is smart since he was on a debate team, ran for state assembly, etc. and strong because he can do MMA and finishes that with he can drink a lot beer. I give him credit for having the balls to join the Rangers but at the same time, it feels like he is insulting them. Sorry for writing all this but I was having a shitty day and just had to let is all out and I figured it since he was talking of COD, that I would put it here. Alright, rant over, feeling much better now. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, is actual real military service gonna shit on his cereal, lets see just how easy pwning noobs is when your actually getting shot at, oh and apparently theres this thing called recoil in reality, suprising i know. Oh and no respawns either. On an actual related note this game is gonna suck, I do love the return of the 1911 to COD i just can forgive the erronious amounts of just horrendous anacronisms, and the flamethrower undermount is so retarded --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a fun idea, hand a CoD fanboy an AR-15 with the bolt locked back, hand them a magazine, and tell them to fire it. See how long it takes them to realize that the weapon isn't magically ready to fire just because you slap in a fresh magazine. You get five points for every ten seconds it takes before they realize what the bolt catch is. You get bonus points if they pull the charging handle.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 06:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Oh and pop that elusive saftey on too, just for good measure.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 09:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they would give the back stock a flat slap after loading a fresh mag and charged the gun like a real badass.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better would be actually getting through the first phase of basic to even hold a weapon.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be even more surprised to find a gamer doing a proper tactical reload, instead of letting a mag drop to the ground and becoming confused as to why it doesn't magically appear back in his pouches.

first of id slap the shit out of your roommate , the second he hit basic hes gonna be crying for mommy shitting him self , and i cant wait for the m1911 to make its return .simmons 8492

==Kinda liking the weapons list==

Well, they are things you never see in other games, although the awp and famas and spas12 can go, and id love the a1 to be full auto. But, a revovler that makes sense, old school submachine guns, a pump action grenade launcher its kind of cool.

I do wish they didn't decided the nearly the same weapons from the other MW series like the AUG, SPAS-12, or the MP5K. They could have picked other pump action shotguns like the Remington 870, or another weapon aside from the MP5K. They should have stuck with the full size MP5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do have the Ithaca 37. And at least the AUG is a rifle and not a LMG in this one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I do know most of these guns really shouldn't exist but you can believe I will have a ton of fun with the under-barrel flamethrower with a smily face reflex sight on the G11(they better not mess up the G11).--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

At this moment, I am not bothered about weapons that don't exist at the time, but more on original choices. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda of agree with you there, sorta disappointed though that they made the M16A1 burst fire in Multiplayer. Though it's hard to say exactly when all these guns appear, while yes we were told it was starting in Vietnam but IT could possibly star in other timezones too. From what I've gathered, you play as multiple characters so it's possible you could play as multiple characters in different time periods, 1 in Vietnam, another in Cold War and maybe a few fictional war zones in the early 2000's [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, it seems that original M16 without forward assist is in game. Anyway - As far as i know M16A1 fired in 3-round bursts, no ?
:::The A1 is full-auto. The A2 and A4 variants fire bursts. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 10:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont like how they use the correct 20 round mag model but make it hold 30. Hopefully the burst/30 rounds is online only, like in cod 4 where the m16 was full auto SP but burst MP.

== CZ75 ==

JUst curious, does anyone think that the CZ-75 might be the Automatic version of the weapon. Granted Treyarch wasn't going to add Machine Pistols but since it's the last handgun in the list and it costs 750 credits would it be possible? I mean Bad Company 2 had their 93R as their last unlock which was a machine pistol [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well, it doesnt have to be automatic. CZ-75 is superior to all other handguns from list in real life.( maybe besides Colt Python ) - Its better than Makarov, ASP and even M1911 in all "stats" . Its probably best 9mm handgun.

::Not too sure as to how it would be better than a .45 caliber 1911. I can see it being better than the ASP or Makarov due to their small magazines of 7-8 rounds compared to the 75's 16 (9mm). Of course it does open the slight possibility that an Automatic conversion kit is available as an attachment [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Its not just about calibre or mag capacity. CZ-75 is more accurate, bullet is faster and i think its lighter. Anyway - Its sure that heavier cartrigde is allways better :) But i would take CZ75 to combat instead of M1911.

:Maybe the developers just read a lot of Gunsmith Cats, and took Rally's speech to heart, but the possibility that it may be an automatic makes me sigh. I hope it isn't.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, The CZ-75 is not more accurate than a 1911
Secondly, there is no "best" 9x19 millimeter pistol, its all personal preference,
Thirdly, the .45 is a better combat round due to its lager grain bullet and more dispersion of energy on contact,
and Lastly, while caliber is not the most important factor, the .45 A.C.P is superior to the 9x19mm because the 9 is a small lightweight bullet, while the .45 is a large heavyweight bullet.
P.S. sign your posts.
~~ PunisherDave
: Well, i tested both CZ75 and 1911. I was doing better with CZ. Anyway - I would take it into combat because of for example mag size. And 9mm bullets are way much more common... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Military 1911s almost universally sucked, with ultra loose fitting parts and 7 pound triggers, and nearly useless sights. 1911s in the civilian world, or the uber built special forces 1911, are nice. But your average GI 1911....not so. Im sure a cz75 would kick its ass in accuracy and reliability if you wanted to use more than ball ammo.
~~k9870
: Ágreed. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Those old 1911's had one thing going for them though, there was a hell of a lot of abuse you could put them through before they malfunctioned. Reliability is a factor. I'm not saying the CZ isn't reliable though, don't get me wrong. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 17:24, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It was once said "the colt 45 will drop a charging bull dead in its tracks, but good luck hitting it.

Haha, while I do know (note how I'm just basing what I say off of research, so I am open to corrections. Hopefully one day I can fire a 1911 and CZ to really know the differences)that the old GI 1911's were often maligned for their lack of accuracy, I've also heard people say it isn't that big of a deal considering that it is a handgun. In a military capacity, the pistol is there when shit gets up close and personal and you need to defend yourself. When the guy is close enough that you can see the whites of his eyes, I'm sure you're not gonna have to be a deadeye to land shots on target. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 18:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:My buddy's father was a Marine in Vietnam, and at least according to him, a lot had to do with the fact that their M1911s were just really old and worn. I would think that WWII production of M1911s would've been more enough to supply US forces for decades. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:29, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Ive heard they manuactured no new 1911s after ww2, and that they just swapped parts, keeping frame and slide. They were loose fitting, and rattled in holsters. a 7 pound single action trigger, and the sights are just awful, especially against a dark background, cheap 3 dot sights would be better. problem is when people think "1911" they think of the sweet modern ones. To be fair, military berettas are beat to hell too, and have known countless people to say the sights were misaligned, magazines had weak springs, etc.
The cz-75 though, this is the first time ive seen it in a game, its pretty cool. I cant wait to use it, im sick of the beretta being the staple 9mm.
-k9870

Misaliged sights are from them getting knocked around and is easily fixed, worn mag springs is through use and they are easily replaced.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It is true that no new 1911's were purchased after World War 2. The same .45's that were on G.I's hips in Europe and The Pacific were being carried by U.S troops during the Gulf War in the 1990's. I've heard that the quality of the 1911's varied from gun to gun. Some were actually were in decent shape while others were just horrid. I don't believe they all suffered from the problems that K9870 is saying. Although I admit the standard sights on those guns are just awful, Most of the time I can't even make out the front post. A lot of soldiers I've read actually preferred a 1911 to the M9 and carried it when possible. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 22:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I dunno about the automatic thing... I myself have only heard of the machine pistol variant of the CZ-75 until very recently, plus I don't think it has a place in media history as a well-known variant of the CZ-75 (much less the CZ-75 itself, outside of [[Gunsmith Cats]]), so I don't know how Treyarch could know about it. Most of the guns they got ideas for the game from are the airsoft guns they had in their office, and last I checked no one makes an airsoft automatic CZ-75. So I would bet my money on that this is just the game's Desert Eagle - the pistol that outshines the rest (and it's about time! The CZ-75 is very underused in the media, IMO). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 09:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually I'm thinking that the Python is gonna be the Power Pistol of this game followed by the 1911. The CZ is probably gonna be the 9mm hi cap of the game.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I hope they dont neuter it for "balance" and that it is awesome, who cares if they need to balance with the makarov and asp? When you buy better guns, they should actually be better, not just change one stat for another.

==asp==

was the asp pistol any good or even used much? It seems the grips would be slippery and the sights are weird.
-k9879
:According to a random site I found, it wasn't used much. Originally, only 100 were produced, and if they are still produced, they are produced only on a pistol-by-pistol basis by custom gunsmiths or shops or something along those lines. The grips were smooth because the original designer intended it to be the ultimate concealed carry pistol, and the smooth grips helped this keeping the chance for the hand to snag on the grips while pulling, aiming, and firing to a minimum. In addition, the sights are weird but when aimed through, due to the design of the sight which employed fluorescent panels, would point at the target when properly aligned, making it easier to shoot reflexively. -Chris Hun7er 23:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

It is a S&W Model 39 which was a really good pistol. It looks as though its in the game because of the size of the Makarov. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:34, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Over-Under Shotgun ==

The Over-Under Shotgun AKA "Olympia", seems to be based off of a Browning Citori XT shotgun. I don't have a screenshot of the gun ingame (It was on the ground, and in HD, but the page was protected so I couldn't save it). But I am pretty sure that the Browning Citori XT is the real-life inspiration for the Olympia.

==Snubnose more accurate?==

What game designers brilliant idea was this? i could understand faster switch or something, but higher accuracy?

I think they were too stupid to make the snubnose version default and a 6" barrel an attachment. --[[User:Xarex|Xarex]]

A 4 inch python is a great service handgun, they should just have 4inch standard, the 6 inch a slower draw but more accurate, the snubby less accurate but faster draw, and unlocks like a nickle finish, different grips, pimp it out however you please.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would think that a snub makes it more accurate, this is just stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

On the COD wiki it shows the stat page ffor snubnose, down one bar power, up one accuracy.
k9870
:It could be that one of the developers mixed it up by mistake, if its not a mix up..... then why bother making videogames with real guns anymore if Treyarch is just going to make up stuff. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 08:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

::A snub nosed revolver has less power AND accuracy than a full size revolver.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

:::I mean in a video game sense (balance over realism), wouldn't a shorter barrel logically mean less accuracy? Sorry if what i said earlier sounded like i wanted Treyarch to make the game like real life. I just meant that Treyarch would be messing with logic to make a shorter barrel mean higher accuracy. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 12:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Black Ops Zombies weapons ==

For those that are wondering, this is the "teaser" trailer for Black Op's Zombie mode www.gknova6.com

So far the weapons I can see and identify are the HK21E, Ithaca M37 Trench Gun, a sniper rifle that looks similar to the design of an Artic Warfare Super Magnum and a tricked out AK variant.

Also it seems we may have Zombies in modern arenas like Office complexes and Labs [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Makarov with target sights. ==

I just noticed that the Makarov has target sights instead of the Military sights. That definatly seems wrong for Military use.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Military sights suck, im sure special forces would replace them.

Maybe but as I recall they didn't have target sights back then, plus they are Dropped by the Russians so they would have the military sights. They aren't that bad by the way, I have personal experiance with them and they are fine.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Saw on COD wiki "upgraded iron sights" as an attachment.

==Strela-3 Missile launcher! Latest Trailer!==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA 1:10 "Vehicle Lock-On Only". Also whats that gun at 2:03, it makes me confus
--[[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]] 17:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

==Who Wants to Ice Castro?==
Apparently you can do it, and there's even an achievement for doing it in one shot!
http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/call-of-duty-black-ops/news/call-of-duty-black-ops-achievementstrophies-reward-you-for-murdering-monkeys-and-fidel-castro/a-20101001104021980032/g-20100430155437473001
[[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 18:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

tell ya what , if you can do that cuba is gonna be pissed . simmons 8492
Oh, oh, I DO!!! :D [[User:Young Gun]]

== Clues from leaked Achievements list ==

Full list here. SPOILERS! [http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2]

:-The player gets to use TOW missiles in the game.
:: MP killstreak list is more than few days old.
:-It's DEFINITELY alternative history.
:: That was clear.
:-The Grim Reaper is in the campaign somewhere.
:: Seen already in one of first trailers.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== Found a PSG1 ==

[http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101001181628/callofduty/images/f/f9/Psg1better.jpg Here], to the right of the G2 --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 19:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

: '''Oh. My. God'''. 2000 Famas with flamethrower and M16 handguard. I beg it would sound crazy month ago. Looking forward MoH much more. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
:Sharp eye, dude. You have my respect. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:13, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63 RAK ==

@ 2:04 in the new trailer here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA] Looks like a PM-63 RAK
[[Image:BO Unidentified.JPG]]--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

:He he, monkey.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 02:31, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Galil ==

Hey guys, found an ingame image of the Galil, head over to the Black Ops page to see it --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Explanation for Impossibly Inaccurate Weapons ==

It is possible that the explanation is that not all of this game is 1968. By looking at www.gknova6.com viral ad site for black ops, reading the trophy/achievemnt list, and by piecing together all the nova-6 gas based missions I believe that one of the playable characters will be killed or severely wounded in the Bay of Pigs Invasion in Cuba(due to the Sacrifice tropy found on the list at http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2). The Gk Company or the Russian goverment then has him revived or recovered to relate what happened with his Ops in the year 1993(www.gknova6.com) or 2010(reveal) at Rebirth Island(Vozrozhdeniya Island) home to the Russian Microbioligical Warfare Unit(source wikipedia). This is not fannon look at the all the raw info of GKNOVA, the mission objectives of sevarel missions, and this GKNOVA6 Web site. Sorry for the long windedness but hopefully you will all understand.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 17:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

So...how does any of this new information explain the inaccurate weapons? The missions with the weapons in question like the AR-15 and the AUG really did took place in a time when they shouldn't exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:20, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Its confirmed this game is alternate reality/timeline so inaccurate weapons is less of a deal.
[[User:K9870|K9870]]

I was more or less talking about way off ones like the WA2000, FAMAS Felin, Artic Warfare, and Spectre M4.Trust me Im not saying thats a good excuse for F-ing up with the CAR-15 hybrid thing and the production "protoype" AUG but that might be the excuse for the G11 and all other post 1970 weapons.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 04:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course there's always the point that this is just a video game that has events based off of real life occurrences too... [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Model 1887 is back ==
In before complaining. Seen in the newest trailer around the 00:42 second mark.
http://kotaku.com/5661296/a-look-at-black-ops-single-player-gameplay-and-story

Definitely a shout out to Terminator 2 there. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 02:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It has been confirmed for single player campaign only, by trearch. Dunno about zombies --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh-ho, my friend, they are here. The best part is that the zombies are still of the Nazi variety. http://www.gknova6.com/agegate.php

:I mean dont know if its on zombies--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Only in one sequence within the campaign, don't think it's in zombies --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

What did enough people bitch about "how unfair" it is by blaming their lack of skill on "noob guns"?
:Honestly, I can understand why people complained about Akimbo 1887s. They definitely weren't balanced, since you could fire them almost constantly by staggering your shots until you had to reload. They also had almost insane range (For a video game shotgun), and very high power. I was fine with the single 1887, but I was glad that they nerfed the Akimbos. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 17:02, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

And I hope the zombies arent nazis, i want to fight commie zombies......

:Looks more like there may be a possibility of fighting not only Commie Zombies but Vietcong Zombies and regular civi zombies too, some of those screens look like their wearing office uniforms and lab coats besides military armor. In some ways I'm glad the 1887 is in singleplayer but at the same time I was kinda hoping it would also be added in multiplayer minus the silly akimbo models, they just looked wrong in my opinion. Also sign your posts with "~ ~ ~ ~" without quotations and spaces. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Deer Hunter ==
Looks like theres a scene in the new trailer similiar to the roulette scene in The Deer Hunter, I wonder how that will work in the game. (just a cut scene or a playable moment?) --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 03:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

'MOW" haha that shit gets me every time . simmons 8492
:Nips? Wow, you're doubly ignorant. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

*Actually, there is no proof the Vietcong actually did anything like that, and it is widely agreed among film critics that the Russian Roulette scenes are actually allegories for the American involvement in Vietnam. We also have a few Asian members on this site, so you should keep your racism to yourself. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

:Well I'm not Vietnamese, so that won't offend me. Besides, sticks and stones. I'm more American than I am Asian [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Dont want to look bad to future members, i know some is just joking but some people take everything seriously.

know what , your right . my bad guys . ill take it down. simmons8492

== Walther MPL confirmed ==

Found a video on G4 containing confirmation that the MPL SMG is in-game. For reference it's the gun painted all green http://g4tv.com/videos/49177/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops---Jungle-Multiplayer-Map-Exclusive/ [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 16:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== 'Grip attachment' on Sub Machine Guns ==

I've heard that the grip attachment on SMGs in fact deploys the stock. That would explain why they all seem to be removed/folded ont the SMGs.

:This is most proven on the Skorpion, attaching a grip actually attaches the wire folding stock [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:24, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

==Is it just me...==

or is using the same flip up sights on every damn gun just friggin lazy?

[[User:k9870|k9870]]

It's an attachment called 'improved iron sights'. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:32, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

No, there standard in game sights. The improved adds outiline and dots to pistols, the flip up sights on guns is laz and trying to look tacticool. Even the m60 has them

And because the standard factory iron-sights for the M60 and the FAMAS, well, SUCK. I really was not a fan of the M60's irons in COD4 and the Battlefield Bad Company games. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:19, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
: Agreed. Kinda bugged by the repetitive sights on some guns myself, but I'm not gonna let it get me down. Most of the guns have their own, correct sights. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, thats Treyarch development style. Put everything they want in any time etape. This game is already dead to me - actually, MoH with its 5 hour campaign is much better than MW2 and Black Ops ('' MW2 with different textures and anachronistic guns'' )
:: Wow dude, you must be from the future seeing as how you are able to form this opinion with a game that hasn't even been released yet. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Meh, I usually play games because they are fun. MOH was pretty realisitc, (compared to Call of Duty anyway...) but it definetly wasn't fun (online). I'll just revel in the ridiculousness of it all... Akimbo HS-10 FTW
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I just finally see these old obscure guns in games and they put lameass sights on, BTW medal of honors single player was cool (ending was abrupt and anticlimactic though) but online is glitchy and feels unpolished. I want to play COD.

Not really sure about the LAME part, but I'd rather have USABLE sights even if they aren't the originals and seem LAME in other people's eyes. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:46, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Is it so hard to ask for variety, im sure the stock sights are usable for a game, i may just use an AK online since it doesnt have flip ups.

Is it so much to ask them to give us variety in the same type of gun, like stock and stockless MP5 or underfolder AK. performances, it makes no difference, but I like variety in what you pick to shoot with. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

== *SPOILER* Zombie Mode Characters. ==

Hey, just saw the intro video for zombie mode. It seems you play as John F Kennedy, Richard Nixon, Some CIA Bloke and Fidel Castro... Heres the link:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbhcHCP24g]r
::That fourth guy would appear to be Robert McNamara, JFK and LBJ's Sec of Defense. Why not just LBJ? Or Bobby Kennedy? They couldn't find two voice actors to do bad Bahston/Kennedy accents? ("Er-eh, toss me another maaahg!") --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Awsome.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 23:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

: These guys are only on bonus map that you get after finishing campaign. There are some random US sosldiers fighting Nazi Zombies in normal zombie mode. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Damn, i love cigars but hate commies. [[user:k9870|k987]]

Zombies better be commies, killing nazis got old i want to shoot commie zobies.

:Is it just me, or would LBJ be better replaced by LHO? (Lee Harvey Oswald.)
::Only if he could only carry three bullets at one time. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:47, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

=="escape the past"==

Its a achievemnet listed, does this imply time travel?
-k9870

Or that something one of the characters did is going to come back to bite them in the arse. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

If it's time travel I'm tearing someone at Treyarch a new one--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:Don't get so defensive over a title. It could be a really cool section, forcing the player to battle his way out of his hometown. Or, maybe time travel. >.> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 23:31, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Nah I meant it all in good humour XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I highly doubt that it's actual time travel. From what we've seen and has been speculated, the majority of the campaign will take place as memories of Black Ops missions that the main characters participated in. No time travel, just photographic memories. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

==New Videos confirm various unknowns==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrNoLz4gC60&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=dvWBYFCAcck]

Among a few things, this video confirms that the G11 is burst fire only, and at the exceptional rate we expect. The poster has posted about many other of the weapons, also confirming that Full Auto is a pistol attachment for the CV-75. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:19, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Golden Guns are Fugly ==

I mean take a look at this!

[[Image:Golden_PSG1.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden PSG1]]

[[Image:Golden_WA2000.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden WA2000]]

[[Image:Golden_Stakeout.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden Ithaca Stakeout]]

[[Image:Golden_HS-10.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden HS-10]]

Also, it would appear the the Ithaca M37 IS the Stakeout version and not the Trench Gun version we initially believed [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:39, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:I thought golden guns were fugly before. >> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:That doesn't even look like real gold, it looks spray painted on! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The gold guns look terribad, probably will avoid using gold camo altogether :C --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 00:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Why spend money on gun colours, when you can just buy gun attachements? :D [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:^ This. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Eh, still gonna make my Duke of New York class with a gold Mac-10 and a nickel (I swear I saw a nickel or 'silver' camo) Python. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Not sure it was confirmed, I think there was rumors flying around but nothing concrete. Besides, I don't think camo patterns can be applied to secondaries, which is lame. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Have you heard that even ACOG´s can be added on pistols ? This game is gonna suck.
:::Because the fact that you can put a scope on a high powered revolver (Something that's doable and often useful in real life) means that the game automatically sucks. Thank you for your insight. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Only python can take an acog. And as to golden guns you only use them if you want to and it looks like you can do it for individual guns instead of the whole damn class its in.

The Python's recoil with the ACOG looks pretty balanced, I'm not too bothered about it. Besides, is pretty cool that Treyarch are doing something a bit different. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:I just added pictures of all the golden guns, they are pretty gross. I would never waste any fake money to buy them.

==just watched zomie gameplay==

pentagon level, the zombies were amix of original nazi zombies and pentagon workers turned to zombies (were wearing shirt/tie)

Why cant they have communist zombies, seriously?

[[user:k9870|k9870]

:I guess they don't want to offend anyone who might be communist. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I still hope there's some Nazi ones left. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Nazis made sense in ww2, but thats been done, we want something new, commie zombies.

From what I've seen, the WaW characters are returning to fight straight Nazi zombies, JFK and friends fight Pentagon zombies in the Pentagon, and there's another with Russian zombies in Winter camo (that's shown on that GKNOVA6 website right now). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The JFK/Nixon/Castro/McNamara level is a bonus level at the end of the game, not the actual zombies mode. The real zombies mode features some new guys in some labs (as seen on GKNOVA6) most probably russian special forces. It will include communist zombies. and the characters from W@w are in it if you buy hardened --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 11:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I hope the pentagon level is 4 player co op so i can play with friends

==Interview with the military advisor==
Here is the link to the interview with the Call of Duty: Black Ops military advisor if anyone is interested in reading it. [http://www.3news.co.nz/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-military-advisor-interview/tabid/418/articleID/185313/Default.aspx] --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 16:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, that Advisor doesnt know anything about weapons. Or any kind of warfare. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Of course your in a position to judge him right...--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, god forbid Treyarch try and make a fun game, instead of a military simulator. Fun? What's that?! [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 10:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: But game can be fun even with realistic weapons or good AI of enemies.
Unfortunately, Treyarch went in MW2 way and instead of making enemy AI better, they spawned twice as much of them.
:::No one says COD was ever a military simulator, but a M16/M203 turning up during the Bay of Pigs invasion would seem to be a "bit" out of place. Now that we know the singleplayer is set between 1961 and 1968, any arguments about the game taking place in some era that justifies the anachronisms has become irrelevant.

==Just putting this out there==
Does anyone else believe that now that the game's actually out and we can get higher quality screenshots, that the old low quality caps be removed? Or maybe the entire page be redone so it looks a little more consistent because you have a low quality shot from an online video then a high quality ingame cap from the game. I'm just saying it probably would look better. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 01:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the low-quality screencaps should be removed ASAP. I'll try to post some as I go through the single-player campaign, but eventually, they too may need to be replaced. I'm running it on 960x600 with no AA for playability. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:This page also need screencaps from the Zombies mode. I was unable to get the Thundergun (a two-shot sound wave gun that resembles a modern rocket launcher) and the Ray gun due to the constant waves of zombies that may sneak up on you and kill you easily, large number of barriers (too many to defend), and the poor weapons you receive in the early rounds. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Impressions So Far? ==

What do you guys thinks of the game so far? My only dissapointment is that they have decided to remove the front sight when you use optics. Other than that, the guns look fantastic.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:I think it's alright, I haven't played campaign yet since the game is my roommate's so we've only been playing on Live. I think the only thing I'm not really liking so far is that they took away the slip-screen Special Ops. As for the guns, pretty much the same as yours along with the whole flame thrower thing, I just think it is rather ridiculous.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 06:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Boring. SP is short, unoriginal ('' This wont matter as MoH had short SP too. But it was atleast fun. Atmospheric and realistic fun. While its boring, unatmospheric and completely unoriginal in BO'' ) . There isnt anything like AI. Too many boring scripts. To the guns : They are anachronistic and unrealistic. It feels strange encountering NVA with Spas-12. MP is same like in MW2 ('' Read - Crappy'' ) with tons of spammed killstreasks etc.
:This game deserves '''5/10''', nothing more. Oh, and do not think i have something against Treyarch. I hated MW2 too. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I like it. SP was a bit of a mind fuck at times, and the AI could have been better, but 98% of the time I was having fun. MP is mostly good, better than MW2, though over the last 12 hours I started seeing some tubers. Yes it's anachronistic and ridiculous, but if I wanted an exact simulation of war I'd join the CF. Aside from some maps, I like it far more (In every way) than MW2. Galil w/ red dot & suppressor + 1911 w/ extended mags = awesomeness. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 15:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The story is actually pretty decent, better than the sponataneous betrayals of MW2. The voice acting is also, suprisingly, very well done. I really don't play multiplayer alot, but it's more balanced than MW2. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 15:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The constant flashes on the screen is annoying as hell. Almost gave me a seizure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The campaign was a bit hard to follow at first, but it comes together nicely in the end. Yes, the weapons are ludicrous (not even ridiculous, beyond ridiculous,) but oh well, I can live with it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Pretty much, I'll give this game a 9.2/10. The multiplayer and content is better and improved from Modern Warfare 2, but the campaign is a bit too short (only 15 missions :() and there's some minor complicated glitches in frame rate. Overall, the game is much better than Modern Warfare 2 and a good recommendation. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:24, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

To be honest guys I just ignore the ancronistic weaponry as it really doesnt matter in the long run. Lets face it, saying a game will suck because theres some AUGs in the 'nam era is just plain ludacris. If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops. Now that thats out of my system I can say with all honesty that this game is very addicting and its finnally a challenge to kill people(5-6 shots for a kill rather than 3-4 shots a kill in MW2). This game is a way more fun experince than MW2 and finally shows the potential of Teyarch development team. ---P226 21:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Pistol grips ==

Anyone noticed that there isnt gun without pistol grip ? Jeez. They put one even on Mosin. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Mosin and ppsh dont have them, characters just hold them like they do.

: Maybe in first person. But mosin has actually pistol grip when its in hands of NPC´s.

No, they just hold their hand as if they were, when its on their backs or they die and drop it doesnt, its probably due to all other characters carrying pistol grips and they dont want too redo characte rmodeling.

== Gold weapon images ==

Do we really need all those pictures of the gold camo? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah. It shows how silly and disguisting tis game is.
Sign your posts. But, I agree that the gold weapon pictures are rather unnecssary. If someone has the PC version of the game, taking pictures of the standard weapons in multiplayer would be greatly appreciated.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 20:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Heckler & Koch G36

2010-11-14T21:13:19Z

P226: /* Just wondering */ new section

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:Mod._G36-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36K with the stock removed and two magazines clipped together - 5.56x45mm as used in the film ''[[Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines]]''.]]

==Question==

Just a Question about the SL8, it seems silly, but is it integrally suppressed?
:[[User:Revolver|Revolver]], not at all silly question, but no. None of the SL8s have integral silencers. They have heavy barrels but I have never seen one outfitted to take a silencer either. The three SL8 Variants you see on the page are my personal guns, so I am just working from that. ;) There may be variations somewhere that I don't know about, but I can assure you that such a modification is a custom aftermarket modification. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 09:35, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

:As far as I know, the only Heckler & Koch weapon that comes with a silencer from the factory is the [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Heckler & Koch MP5SD|Heckler & Koch MP5SD]] submachine gun. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 08:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if this counts as integrally suppressed, but on HKPRO.COM, there is something advertised as the SL9-SD.
http://www.hkpro.com/sl9sd.htm
Kinda reminds me of the suppressed sniper rifle in Far Cry: Instincts.
hkpro.com is also a good site for pics/info pertaining to hk products, btw.
:Cool! It looks neat. It's an SL8 with a threaded barrel for their suppressor. Other than the addition of a PSG-01 style trigger, I don't see much of a difference, except they did not subdue the "bright red" HK logos on the stocks. I may have to convert one of my SL8 rifles to that configuration. ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:35, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Could a G36 take the role of a Designated Marksman Rifle, if the Designated Marksman lost it rifle. in a story im writing for fun a former Designated Marksman use a G36 as his main rifle, and carys is Mark 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle for sharpshooting. I was wounding if it was a good chose REX095

Probably. Any semi-automatic weapon that can take an optic can be a DMR, as long as it has greater accuracy than a standard model; I'd probably have him use a Springfield M1A Match instead of the G36, because it's basically a civilian model of the M14 with around the same inherent accuracy. It's semi-auto only, but a DMR isn't exactly going to use a full-auto weapon either, so it works out.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

==G36C==
:Why is this gun in just about every new action movie and video game that feature large amounts of gunplay? I'm getting tired of seeing this gun and wonder why there are barely any other of the G36 series in movies and video games-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:34, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

:Why is it I hear lots of "I'm tired of (insert fairly new weapon here) when no one ever says "I'm tired of seeing those M4s. Theyre in every new action movie and video game and I'm sick of it" when that last statement is actually true? S&W, I don't know about you, but I don't see the G36C as much as many many other kinds of weapons. Personally I'm getting very sick of seeing overly-upgraded M4 or M16 rifles and all the Beretta 92-like guns going around out there. I think seeing more of the G36 family would be a refreshing change. Any other gun that deserves more attention would be nice. Where are all the Mk. 46s and the REC-7s? I've only seen those in R6V2 and if you ask me were misrepresented terribly. And am I the only one upset over losing the G36 in MW2? I was hoping for the full size version.

I like seeing more gun variety in movies and games, so as long as it makes some sense (i.e., not stuff like random street thugs in Predator 2 pulling out Steyr AUGs). Contrary to what some naive or misinformed souls may believe, Colt is not "teh ownly gun manufacturer wurth showing" on screen or in games, and not everyone uses a M16 or an M4 or an AK-47. The G36 is a perfectly good gun to round out the arsenal on screen or in games.

By the same token:

-The FN P90 is not the only PDW/Armour-piercing SMG worth showing on screen or in games--the MP7 and SR-3 Vikhr or the OTs-14 Groza are both perfectly suitable for the same role.

-M60s and M249 SAWs are not the only light machine guns that are effective or useful--PKMs, MG36s, QBB-95s, or even older ones like the MG42 are perfectly viable and useful.

The firearms industry has always been fiercely competitive and people from different factions often use different weapons in real life. More gun variety in games usually means more possible playstyles available and less of a chance that someone will get bored looking at the same gun all the time. For instance, despite the ejection ports being in the wrong places and the reliability factors largely in favour of Warsaw pact weapons vs. NATO weapons, STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl's gun selection was good for both the variety and the various playstyles it encouraged.

Hopefully movie armourers and game developers will put in more reasonable gun variety in those two media forms. Even in real life I highly doubt any one firearms company will end up establishing an unbreakable monopoly, forcing gun monotony on us all. [[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:24, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

--
GOD, I hated Infinity Ward for taking the G36C out of MW2, as I am a HUGE G36 fan. But to your point, [[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]]: Weapons like the Remington ACR, HK G36, IMI Tavor, HK MP7, FNH F2000... Newer, more modern weapons like these don't see NEARLY enough movie use.

The way I see it, when it comes down to it, you have these as perhaps the 10 most cliched weapons in the media (not in any particular order):

1: M16/M4 Assault Rifle series

2: Beretta 92FS

3: Franchi SPAS-12

4: HK MP5A3

5: FNH P90 PDW

6: FNH M249 S.A.W.

7: Glock Safe-Action Pistols (Any model, but the 18 is the most cliched, no doubt about it)

8: Desert Eagle (Models VII and XIX)

9: Steyr AUG A1

10: Saco Defense M60

With the exception of the Desert Eagle (Gotta love it), we've seen and re-seen these guns WAY too much if you ask me, but no one ever complains about it. WTF is up with that?
On the other end of the spectrum, you have some firearms that need to see more use (also not in any particular order):

1: HK G36 Assault Rifle series

2: Remington ACR

3: FNH F2000

4: IMI Tavor

5: HK MP7A1

6: Steyr AUG A3

7: M14 (Both the Original and the Mk. 14 EBR as well)

8: Saiga 20K (PGO)

9: TDI Vector

10: FNH M249 S.P.W.

Sorry if this got a bit long, but I just wanted to put it out there.
--[[User:GamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]--Destroying the world, one hippie at a time. 04:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

We don't see a lot of the "newer" guns like the ACR, TDI Vector or the ACR because I don't think any armorer has them yet. A Canadian armorer that did Resident Evil Apocalypse had a couple Tavors, 24 showed the MP7s and F2000. It's just that you have to look at the armorers. They can't have every single gun in their collection. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:38, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

The weird thing about the Beretta 92 is that no one ever seems to have a Beretta 90-two, in the newer games/films.

Also, I've never seen a Steyr M9/A1 in ANY film. Even in Fringe, they just used the Five-seveN as a futuristic stand-in; the world is supposed to be like ours, except different. The Steyr looks superficially like the Glock, but it has pretty out-there sights and is pretty different externally when you look at it up close.

And about the Saiga, I don't think I've seen a Saiga sporter (the original model from which the Saiga-20K is derived) in any film either.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

== Reliability? ==

Is the G36 reliable when put through mud, water,and dirt(ex Ak-47, HK416)? or does it face similar problems the M16 family faces?

The H&K 416 is basically a G36 operating system in an AR-15. So yeah, it is reliable in those conditions. The XM8 rifle was just a revamped G36, and it topped the 416's reliability by more than 200 rounds.

Thank you for responding, also does this apply to other assualt rifles of this era too?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

I don't know about the fifty-plus other assault rifles (I only really know about the main ones and some irregular ones like the Vektor CR-21), but the newer H&K models are mostly based on the G36. It's the same relationship as the G3 on contemporary models (PSG1, etc), you know?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

== Just wondering ==

Does the G36C see any action at all in either american or british special forces?
---P226 21:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

007: The World Is Not Enough

2010-10-13T00:02:07Z

P226: /* Heckler & Koch UMP45 */

'''The following weapons appear in the video game ''007: The World Is Not Enough'':'''
[[Image:The World is Not Enough box.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''007: The World Is Not Enough'' (2000)]]

== Walther P99 ==

The [[Walther P99]] appears in the game as the "Wolfram P2K", and can be fitted with a silencer. It is Bond's standard-issue weapon, and is avalable in all single-player missions. It also acts as a backup weapon for AI characters in singleplayer mode; when zapped with the stun mode of Bond's watch, the AI characters will drop their main weapon and draw a Wolfram P2K once they recover.

[[Image:Walther-P99-Pistol.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Walther P99 9x19mm]]
[[Image:TWINE_P99.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The "Wolfram P2K" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

==Magnum Research Desert Eagle Mk. XIX==

The [[Desert Eagle]], chambered in .44 Magnum and with a stainless steel finish, appears in the game as the "Raptor Magnum", and comes fitted with a frame-mounted laser pointer. Activating the laser pointer increases accuracy, but at the cost of a slower rate of fire.

[[Image:DesertEagle50AE.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Desert Eagle .44 Magnum with stainless steel finish]]
[[Image:TWINE DE.jpg|thumb|400px|none|The "Raptor Magnum" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== Colt Anaconda ==

The [[Colt Anaconda]] appears in the game as the "Mustang .44", and is fitted with a 2x magnification scope. It fires the slowest of all the pistols, but packs the biggest punch and has the longest effective range.

[[Image:Colt-Anaconda Revolver.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Colt Anaconda .44 Magnum]]
[[Image:Bondyblueboop3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The "Mustang .44" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== MAC-10 ==

The [[MAC-10#MAC-10|MAC-10]] appears in the game as the "Ingalls Type-20", and is fitted with a silencer.

[[Image:MAC10.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MAC-10 .45 ACP with magazine removed and fitted with silencer]]
[[Image:TWINE MAC10.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The "Ingalls Type-20" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== Heckler & Koch MP5SD5 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Heckler & Koch MP5SD|Heckler & Koch MP5SD]] appears in the game as the "Deutsche M9S", and is fitted with a 2x zoom scope and laser pointer. Activating the laser limits the weapon to semi-auto mode, but increases accuracy.

[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Badboybond4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The "Deutsche M9S" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== Steyr-Mannlicher TMP ==

The [[Steyr TMP]] appears in the game as the "Meyer TMP", and can operate in semi or full auto modes.athough in the game is moderetly weak.

[[Image:SteyrTMP.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Steyr TMP 9x19mm]]
[[Image:TWINE TMP.jpg|thumb|400px|thumb|none|The "Meyer TMP" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== Heckler & Koch UMP45 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch UMP]] appears in the game as the "Deutsche M45", chambered in .45 ACP and fitted with a RIS foregrip as well as an accessory rail on top of the weapon, and fires in full auto or 2-round burst modes, despite the real weapon operatng in semi or full auto only with no burst setting.

False the UMP series Sub machine guns do come with a 2 round burst setting

[[Image:UMP 45.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch UMP45 .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Bond11.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The "Deutsche M45" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== FN P90 ==

The [[FN P90]] appears in the game as the "MB PDW 90", and aside from having a 2x zoom and the highest rate of fire, also has the highest magazine capacity of all the weapons in the game.

[[Image:FNP90.jpg|thumb|none|350px|FN P90 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:MB POW 90.png‎ |thumb|none|400px|The "MB PDW 90" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== AKS-47 ==

The [[AK-47#AKS-47|AKS-47]] appears in the game as the "Soviet KA-57". Has very nice power, and has a resonable capacty. Yet has horrible accuracy.

[[Image:Aks47e.jpg|thumb|350px|none|AKS-47 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:KA-57.png|thumb|none|400px|The "Soviet KA-57" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== Colt CAR15 Mod. 607 ==

The [[M16 rifle series#Colt XM177/CAR-15/Commando Series|Colt Model 607]] appears in the game as the "Mustang MAR-4" with a 2x scope, or fitted with an [[M203 grenade launcher]] as the "Mustang MAR-4 GL". One glitch is that the MAR-4 GL can occasionally fire two grenades without having to reload between shots.

[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Model 607, 5.56 x 45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:Twine MAR.png‎|thumb|none|400px|The "MAR-4" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]
[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 Grenade Launcher]]
[[Image:Mustang MAR-4 GL.png‎|thumb|none|400px|The "Mustang MAR-4 GL" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== Steyr AUG ==

The [[Steyr AUG]] appears in the game as the "Meyer Bullpup", with a 2x zoom scope. Has an amazing range, accuracy, and power but is wasteful on ammo.

[[Image:Steyr-AUG.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Steyr AUG 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Meyer Bullpup.png|thumb|none|400px|The "Meyer Bullpup" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== Heckler & Koch MSG90 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch G3#H&K MSG90|Heckler & Koch MSG90]] appears in the game as the "Deutsche SA90", equipped with a 6x zoom scope wich is the highest in the game

[[Image:HKMSG90.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch MSG90 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[image:Deutsche SA90.png|thumb|none|400px|The "Deutsche SA90" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== SIG-Sauer SSG 3000 ==

The [[SIG-Sauer SSG 3000]] appears in the game as the "Suisse SSR 4000" and is equipped with a 6x zoom scope and silencer, yet is noticeably shorter-range than the "Deutche SA90". It is one of the 2 guns that don't have magazines and need to be reloaded more than one time to have full ammo.

[[Image:SSG3000.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer SSG 3000 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Sussie.png|thumb|none|400px|The "Suisse SSR 4000" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== Franchi SPAS-12 ==

The [[Franchi SPAS-12]] appears in the game with the stock removed and a green heat shield as the "Frinesi Special 12", and can operate in pump-action or full-auto modes, contrary to the real weapon only being capable of semi-auto fire at best. The "Frinesi Special 12" is one of the 2 guns that don't have magazines, it has to be reloded more than one time to have full ammo.

[[Image:FSpas12orign.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Franchi SPAS-12 12 Guage with stock removed]]
[[Image:Bond1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|The "Frinesi Special 12" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== M79 grenade launcher ==

The [[M79 grenade launcher]] appears in the game as the "GL 40" fitted with green synthetic furniture, and is capable of 2x zoom magnification, and can fire grenades that detonate either on impact or after a 5-second delay.

[[Image:M79-Grenade-Launcher.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M79 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:GL 40.png|thumb|none|400px|The "GL-40" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== RPG-22 ==

The [[RPG-22]] appears in the game as the "RL 22", and is capable of 2x zoom magnification.

[[Image:RPG-22 rocket launcher.jpg|thumb|none|350px|RPG-22 rocket launcher 72.5mm]]
[[Image:RL 22.png|thumb|none|400px|The "RL-22" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== M202 FLASH ==

The [[M202 FLASH]] appears in the game as the "AT-420 Sentinel", and is capable of 4x zoom magnification, and can fire either fully or semi-automatic, the latter being laser-guided.

[[Image:M202A2 FLASH.JPG|thumb|none|350px|M202 FLASH 66mm]]
[[Image:AT-420 Sentinel.png|thumb|none|400px|The "AT-420 Sentinel" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== M62 Grenade ==
The fragmentation grenade in this game is the M62.

== Golden Gun ==

As in other ''James Bond'' shooters, the [[Golden Gun]] appears in the game, usable in multiplayer mode. It is the strongest and most accurate gun on the game. It also has the same SFX as as the Wolfram P2K.

[[Image:Golden Gun.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Golden Gun]]
[[Image:the golden gun.jpg]]

== Ultimate Spear Gun ==

An Ultimate Spear Gun appears in the game as a "Seamaster Spear Gun"

[[Image:Spearmaster Speargun.png|thumb|none|400px|The "Seamaster Spear Gun" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

== Delta Mag 900 ==

Fictional pump-action crossbow.

[[Image:Delta 900 Mag.png|thumb|none|400px|The "Delta 900 Mag" in ''The World Is Not Enough'']]

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:James Bond Game]]
[[Category:Espionage]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]

Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-10-01T23:01:33Z

P226: /* Heckler&Koch PSG-1 */

Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-10-01T23:01:16Z

P226: /* Heckler&Koch PSG-1 */

Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-10-01T22:59:44Z

P226: /* Heckler&Koch PSG-1 */

Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-10-01T22:59:27Z

P226: /* Heckler&Koch PSG-1 */

Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-10-01T22:59:05Z

P226: /* Sniper Rifles */

Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-10-01T22:55:27Z

P226: /* Sniper Rifles */

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

2010-07-20T20:02:44Z

P226: /* FN FAL */

[[Image:MW2.jpg|right|300px|thumb|''Modern Warfare 2'' (2009)]]
'''The following weapons are used in the video game ''Modern Warfare 2'', also known as ''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2'':'''

==Handguns==
Note: All handguns in the game except the Springfield Pro 1911 are available in single and multiplayer modes. All handguns in multiplayer mode can be equipped with a variety of accessories including FMJ rounds, supressors/silencers, dual wield (akimbo), tactical knives, and extended magazines (unless noted otherwise).
===Heckler & Koch USP45===
Modified (with threaded barrels) [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP|Heckler & Koch USP45]]s have been seen in single and multiplayer and can be identified by the slide. They are equipped with unidentified non-removable, non-usable Laser Aiming Modules and suppressors. One of the main sidearms of the Russian forces, including Ultranationalists and Internal Troops, and Task Force 141. In singleplayer, the USP is always equipped with the tactical knife attachment. (Note that the rear sights are not adjustable ones like that of the USP Tactical.)
In multiplayer, the USP is unlocked at level 4 (Private First Class) and is an effective sidearm overall. It has a magazine capacity of 12 rounds or 18 rounds with the extended magazines attachment.
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch USP - .45ACP]]
[[Image:Mw2usp45.jpg|400px]]
[[Image:Iexplore 2009-09-01 21-24-28-59.png|thumb|none|400px|Reloading the USP during a CTF.]]
[[Image:Mw2_usptk_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|USP with Silencer and a tactical knife.]]
[[Image:Akimbo_usp.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Akimbo USP's in-game]]

===Colt Anaconda .44===
The [[Colt Anaconda]] is used by General Shepard in the Campaign in a couple of significant instances in the story. In one scene, he pulls back the hammer, and then the cylinder incorrectly rotates again when he pulls the trigger. Earlier in the story, we see that the revolver is holstered, yet he pulls the same model of that revolver out to shoot someone, as though he has another big Anaconda tucked in the back of his pants. It is a useful weapon in multiplayer mode due to its quick draw, and the fact that the weapon will fire as fast as the player can press the fire button. As you probably suspected, the .44 Anaconda is not available with a silencer or extended magazines. Also, instead of 75 kills, the player has to reach 100 kills with this weapon to unlock the tactical knife attachment.
[[Image:Colt-Anaconda Revolver.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Colt Anaconda]] .44]]
[[Image:Mw244magnum.jpg|400px|]]
[[Image:Mw2_44_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Anaconda .44 in first-person view.]]
[[Image:44magnum_6.jpg|thumb|none|Colt Anaconda .44 close-up.]]
[[Image:AnacondaShepherd-MW2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|General Shepherd loading his Colt Anaconda before helping the player get up.]]

===Beretta 92SB===
As in the original Modern Warfare (Call of Duty 4), the [[Beretta 92SB]] appears as the military issue M9. It is the primary sidearm of all U.S. troops in singleplayer, and is also used by the Afghan National Army, Task Force 141, U.S. Navy SEALs, and is infrequently used by the Middle Eastern OpFor.
[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]
[[Image:M92FS.png|thumb|none|400px|Note the rounded trigger guard, denoting the pistol as a 92SB]]
[[Image:Mw2m9.PNG|thumb|none|400px|Player with Beretta 92SB pistol (posing as the M9).]]
[[Image:Mw2wall.PNG|thumb|none|400px|92SB pistol is under SPAS-12's pistol grip.]]
[[Image:Mw2_m9_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92SB in first-person view.]]

===IMI Desert Eagle===
Faust, Alejandro Rojas' assistant, carries a [[Desert Eagle]] with a laser aiming module attached it. It is equipped with incorrect 3-dot sights. The pistol modelled with Magnum Researches' new barrel with a picatinny rail. Main sidearm of the Brazilian militia. Surprisingly, quite a few Americans, most notably Cpl. Dunn, use this gun as their preferred sidearm.
Similarly to the Colt Anaconda, 100 kills are required to unlock the tactical knife, and no supressor or extended magazines are available.
[[Image:Desert-Eagle.jpeg|thumb|400px|none|Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE Black finish.]]
[[Image:MW2 Desert Eagle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Desert Eagle, as unlocked in Create a Class at Level 62.]]
[[Image:Faust shoots a Dude with a DesertEagle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|The arms dealer's assistant, Faust, shoots local gunman with his Desert Eagle. Also noted is the game's newer character models, which show pain when hit by rounds.]]
The choreography of this scene is an homage to the briefcase scene in Collateral
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol2.png|thumb|350px|none|A Brazilian militant aims and fires a Desert Eagle in the trailer.]]
[[Image:Moder warfare 2 deagle 2.jpg|thumb|350px|none|A bigger picture and a clear look at the laser module.]]
[[Image:Mw2_deagle_ego.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Desert Eagle in first-person view. Note the incorrect sights.]]
[[Image:Deagledunn_6.png|thumb|400px|none|A close-up of Corporal Dunn's Desert Eagle.]]

===Springfield Armory Professional 1911===
It is the same pistol given to Soap by Captain Price in the 1st game, during the final level, "Game Over". Some Ghillie snipers are also seen with this M1911 holstered, though they never use them and tend to switch to a Heckler & Koch USP that magically appears. When Soap and Price reunite in during the Gulag level, Soap hands the pistol to Price and says, "This belongs to you sir." One of the only guns not usable in-game. Only usable in museum bonus level. Strangely, in multiplayer modes, when the player is using a sniper rifle as their primary weapon, on an arctic or desert type map, the M1911 will appear in either the player's holster or on their belt. Also, at the very beginning of the game, during the level S.S.D.D, Sergeant Foley can be seen with a WWII-era M1911A1 in his holster.

This particular 1911 was generated into the game to serve the role as the Kimber MARSOC ICQB 1911, but in the end, was modeled after a custom Springfield Professional.

[[Image:SAProTac.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Springfield Armory Pro Tactical, this is an airsoft replica of the real model.]]
[[Image:MW2Soap.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Captain "Soap" MacTavish climbing up the ice with a 1911 pistol. He also has a M14 EBR that's noted in the screenshot above.]]
[[Image:MW2 Militia Drops 1911.jpg|thumb|400px|none|A militiaman attempting to arrest Faust drops his M1911 after being shot. Interestingly enough, once gameplay starts, the weapons turn into Beretta M9s.]]
[[Image:Mw2_1911_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M1911 in first-person view.]]
[[Image:Mw21911.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Museum bonus level.]]
[[Image:MW2-holsteredM1911.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A dead Ghillie sniper with a holstered M1911.]]

==Machine Pistols==
===PP-2000===
Used by Russian Paratroopers and Makarov's Ultranationalist troops in both normal and last stand modes. The [[PP-2000]] can be equipped with assorted sights, scopes and accessories, including a thermal sight on the level "The Only Easy Day...Was Yesterday." It is an all around effective weapon in multiplayer mode because of its high rate of fire and low recoil. Additionally, the weapon's only drawback is its 20 round magazine.
[[Image:Pp2000 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|PP-2000 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Mw2wall.PNG|thumb|none|400px|PP 2000 is under M9 pistol.]]
[[Image:Mw2_p2000_ego.jpg|thumb|none|400px|PP 2000 with Reflex (Doctor?) in first-person view]]
[[Image:Mw2Pp2000.jpg|400px]]

===Glock 17 converted to full-auto===
The [[Glock#Glock17|Glock 17]] appears in the game in a full auto configuration, with a 33 round magazine. Although it is called a G18, alluding to the Select fire [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] manufactured by the same company, it has no selector switch, and the frame is olive-drab, which was only featured on their semi-automatic designs. The [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] is used by the Brazilian Milita, Task Force 141, wounded Shadow Company soldiers when they are in "Last Stand", and, on occasion, Middle-Eastearn Opfor. The pistol is also available in several Spec Ops missions. It is unlocked at level 22 (Master Sergeant) for multiplayer modes. The weapon has a high rate of fire, high recoil, but it is possible to utilize the recoil to get headshots. When paired with akimbo and extended magazine attachments it is especially accurate and deadly.
[[Image:Glock_12892-1-.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 17 OD Green - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Mw2G18.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Glock 17 converted known as "G18" in the create a class menu.]]
[[Image:Mw2_glock_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Glock 17 converted in first-person view, idle.]][[Image:MW2Glock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Glock 17 converted fired by "Roach" on a snowmobile in Mission "Cliffhanger". Note olive-drab frame.]]

===Beretta 92FS converted to selective fire===
A confirmed weapon classified under the Machine Pistol slot as the M93 Raffica, it's attached with a skeletal stock and what looks like an attachment rail for a flashlight/LAM. In game model has extended mag but still only holds 15 rounds, MP model holds 20 rounds though. Seen in the armory in "The Gulag" when the player is searching the prison for prisoner 627. The "M93 Raffica" is unlocked at level 38 in multiplayer, and benefits from low recoil, high damage, fast reload times, and instantaneous ADS.
[[Image:Beretta93-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Beretta 93R]], 9x19mm. The model in game does not match this, however, as there is a slide-mounted safety present.]]
[[Image:Mw2M9raffica.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Burst converted Beretta 92FS as the M93 Raffica.]]
[[Image:Mw2_93r_ego_idle.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Burst converted Beretta 92FS in game.]]
[[Image:M93_6.png|400px|thumb|none|A close up of the "Raffica" Note how the player holds onto the front grip.]]

===Brügger And Thomet MP9===
The [[Steyr TMP#Brügger & Thomet MP-9|Brügger & Thomet MP-9]] variant with the scope rail and folding stock was seen in the Special Ops Gameplay footage. Often seen in singleplayer used by Middle Eastern OpFor, Russian Airport Security Police, Makarov's Ultranationalist and Shadow Company and is often dual-wielded (with a fairly realistic drop in accuracy, especially since you lose your ghost-ring ironsights). In multiplayer is has a small 15 round magazine (which can be emptied in about 1 second), but extremely low recoil and great accuracy. It is unlocked at level 58.
[[Image:Mp9tmp.jpg|thumb|none|400px|B&T MP9 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Tmp.jpg|thumb|none|400px|B&T MP9 (called TMP in game) in first-person view, with olive lower receiver, ghost ring sights, and unused side rails.]]

==Sub-machine Guns==
===Heckler & Koch MP5K===
The [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Heckler & Koch MP5K|MP5K]] (with custom Rail Interface System) appears in the game. Comes with a foregrip in multiplayer, but in singleplayer this is absent. Used by Brazilian Milita, Middle Eastern OpFor, Rangers, Task Force 141, Russian Internal Troops\FSB, and some Russian soldiers\Ultranationalist. It is often seen with a Red Dot Sight. A suppressed version, the MP5KSD, is available in "The Enemy of My Enemy," "Just Like Old Times," and several of the Spec Ops missions.
[[Image:MP5K-SEF.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch MP5K - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:381.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP5K R.I.S. System (modeled after an ICS Airsoft RAS)]]
[[Image:Mw2Mp5k.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP5K In Create a Class Menu.]]
[[Image:MW2-MP5K-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP5K in action during Flag Runner mode.]][[Image:MW2MP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian Internal Troops' supply units (notable by their white griffin patches) firing MP5K behind riot shields.]]
[[Image:MP5KSD-MW2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The MP5KSD in "The Enemy of My Enemy."]]
[[Image:MP5KSD2-MW2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reloading the MP5KSD.]]

===Heckler & Koch UMP 45===
Used by Russian police, Russian military, Shadow Company and Task Force 141. The [[Heckler & Koch UMP|UMP]] can be equipped with extended magazines, and is one of the only SMGs to use scopes.
[[Image:UMP 45.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch UMP - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Mw2Ump45.jpg|400px]]
[[Image:mw2_ump.png|thumb|none|The UMP in-game.]]
[[image:MW2TR5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Russian soldier with a UMP.]]
[[Image:MW2 screen 24-1255733504.jpg|thumb|none|400px|One of the Shadow Company soldiers in this pic is seen with the UMP with an EoTech sight attachment.]]

===TDI Vector===
The May 24th trailer shows a brief scene of the [[TDI Vector#TDI Vector|TDI Vector]] being used with its experimental 26-round magazine and possible EOTech Holographic sight. Used by Russians, Shadow Company, and occasionally Task Force 141, along with the Brazilians who rarely ever use this. Usually has a reflex sight, and in some levels has a suppressor.

[[Image:Krisssuperv.jpg|thumb|none|400px|TDI Vector - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Mw2Vector.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Iexplore 2009-09-01 21-45-38-52.png|thumb|400px|none|TDI Vector equipped with a suppressor and a red-dot sight in multiplayer.]]
[[Image:MW2TDIVector.jpg|thumb|400px|none|A Russian Ultranationalist with a TDI Vector.]]

===FN P90TR===
Used by Russians and Shadow Company in singleplayer.
[[Image:FN P90 Triple Rail (TR).jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN P90#P90TR|FN P90TR]].]]
[[Image:Mw2P90.jpg|400px]]
[[Image:Mw2_p90_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN P90 with Reflexsight (Doctor?) in first-person view.]]

===IMI Mini-Uzi===
Seen in the "Infamy" trailer. The [[Uzi#Mini Uzi|Mini Uzi]] used by Brazilian Militia, Mideast OpFor and rarely Makarov's Ultranationalist in the level "Enemy of My Enemy". Used near the end of the game in the boat chase scene. Rarely has any attachments. Dual wield available. When aiming down sights, sights are not properly lined up, and gun would shoot high in reality.
[[Image:MiniUzi 01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mini Uzi with stock folded - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:381.png|thumb|none|400px|Mini Uzi in-game.]]
[[Image:Mw2_uzi_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mini UZI in first-person view.]]

==Assault Rifles==
===FAMAS F1===
The [[FAMAS|FAMAS F1]] is seen in the game. It can only fire in bursts, and is used mostly by Russians. It is also the only weapon trhat can be seen using White Tape Camo, which is used as a temporary stand-in for arctic camo. This feature is only present in single player.
[[Image:Famas.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS 5.56mm Assault Rifle. Standard service rifle of the French Forces.]]
[[Image:FAMAS_modern_warafe_2.JPG|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS assault rifle first-person.]]
[[Image:FAMAS2Reloading.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reloading the [[FAMAS]]. This is unlike the first game, Roach is reloading with his finger OFF the trigger.]][[Image:MW2FamasF1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian Ultra-nationalist with a FAMAS assault rifle w/ White Tape Camo.]]

===M4A1 Carbine===
The [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1]] variant with ARMS S.I.R. system and flip-up PRI front and ARMS #40L rear back up iron sights. With a few exceptions, this is mostly used with an M203, and many of them use optical sights or scopes. In the museum level, there is a suppressed version of this. The [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1]] is used by the Rangers, Task Force 141, and Makarov's Russian terrorist assaulting the Russian airport.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Colt M4A1 with 6 position collapsible stock - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:SIR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|S.I.R. System]]
[[Image:Mw2_m4a1_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M4A1 in first-person view. Also note the aircraft in the backdrop with an inflatable evacuation slide deployed, showing that Modern Warefare 2 took more care in the realism of the graphics.]][[Image:MW2ColtM933.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M4 Carbine with a S.I.R. system, an ACOG sight and a M203 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MW2_screen_13-1024x768.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Captain Soap MacTavish with M4A1 S.I.R.]]
[[Image:MW2SpOpsM4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Task force 141 member with a M4 Carbine with a M203 grenade launcher, EOTech sight, and desert camouflaged stock and pistol grip.]]
[[Image:MW2 screen 16-1255734153.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ghost with his M4A1 S.I.R.]]
:*A note of interest: While you can only fire this weapon in full-auto, the selector switch is modeled on semi-auto.

===FN SCAR-H CQC===
Seen in game trailers and magazines. The [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|SCAR-H]] is one of the primary rifles of Task Force 141, U.S. Army Rangers, and Shadow Company soldiers. Note that it's an old 2nd generation model used in-game, with the straight cheek rest on the stock. In singleplayer the weapon incorrectly has a thirty round magazine, though the multiplayer version correctly holds 20. It also has a chopped down rear sight.

[[Image:2fff2537c0.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|SCAR-H]] CQC (third generation) - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MW2-Scar-1.jpg|400px|thumb|none|The FN SCAR-H in action during the video of Flag Runner mode.]][[Image:PrestigeMW2.png|thumb|none|400px|Robert Bowling showing the artbook of the prestige edition. Also note that the digital pattern returns to the second sequel of Modern Warfare. Also noted at top of page is a tan/snow FN SCAR-H, which means there may be newer camouflage patterns to customize weapons from.]]
[[Image:MW2 screen 26-12557342731.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Shadow Company commando armed with an FN SCAR-H, fitted with an ACOG sight. Note the forward folding front sight.]]

===IMI Tavor TAR-21===
The [[Tavor TAR-21 rifle series#IMI Tavor TAR-21|IMI Tavor TAR-21]] weapon pick-up icon is seen in the new capture the flag video, seen loaded with Full Metal Jacket rounds, and is also seen in the create a class video. It is used by Russian soldiers, and Task Force 141.The [[Tavor TAR-21 rifle series#IMI Tavor TAR-21|IMI Tavor TAR-21]] almost always has some kind of optical sight or scope, including the standard MARS sight (As a result, after the EMP 3/4 of them become junk, though ACOG scopes are still usable).
[[Image:Tavor-tar.jpg|thumb|none|400px|IMI Tavor TAR-21 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:ModernWarfare2TAR-21.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The IMI Tavor TAR-21 known as the "TAR-21" seen in the create a class menu.]]
[[Image:Mw2_tar21_ego.jpg|thumb|none|400px|IMI Tar 21 with EoTech signt in first-person view.]]
[[Image:Mw2tar21stupid.jpg|thumb|none|500px|In game what the Tavor with an M203 looks like. Unfortunately, they did not remove the front handguard and directly attached the M203 onto the barrel. As a result, it looks very ugly and seems almost impossible to actually mount it in such a manner.]]
[[Image:Mw2tar21M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|How an Tavor/M203 combo SHOULD look like for comparison.]]

===FN FAL===
The [[FN FAL]] rifle appears in game trailers with an extended 30 round magazine and custom Rail Interface System (similar to R.I.S. on DSArms SA58 OSW). Used almost as often as the [[AK-47]] by militia, and sometimes by Russians. It's not capable of full-auto fire, which is correct for the Brazilians and OpFor, but is unusual for a full-time military like the Russians.*Not really since most militaries (the british for example)used there FALs(or L1A1
)in semi only* Usually equipped with either an M870 Masterkey or an ACOG scope. Does the "speed reload" technique when reloading. In Multiplayer, the 30-round mags are restricted to 20 rounds unless the Extended Mags are equipped.

[[Image:FN FAL 50 00.jpg|none|thumb|400px|FN FAL - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg|none|thumb|400px|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Ka-falras.jpg|thumb|none|400px|R.I.S.]]
[[Image:Mw2_fal_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN FAL in first-person view.]]
[[Image:Mw2_fal_ego_idle2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Looking down an ACOG after the EMP. Technically because the ACOG scope doesn't uses any batteries, we should be seeing a glowing reticule instead a black crosshair.]]
[[Image:MW2TR2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Brazilian militia with FN FAL]]

===M16A4===
Seen in the "Infamy" trailer. The [[M16 rifle series#M16A4 Rifle |M16A4]] is correctly depicted as the standard weapon of the U.S. Army Rangers. Like the M4A1, many of these have M203 grenade launchers. Mostly seen used by the Rangers in the Washington, D.C. missions or by Task Force 141.

Just like in ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare|Modern Warfare 1]]'', when the M16 is mounted with optics, the front sight and the gas block are removed. This would render the gun unable to fire automatically after the first shot. The shooter would have to manually load a round into the chamber by racking the bolt. This would effectively make the gun a bolt action.

[[Image:M16A4withANPEQ%26ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[M16A4]] Modular Weapon System]]
[[Image:382.png|thumb|none|400px|US Army Ranger with M16A4 (ACOG scope). Note that M16A4 still fires in 3 rounds burst mode. Also note that the front sight is removed]]
[[Image:389.png|thumb|none|400px|M16A4 with M203 in "Infamy" trailer]]
[[Image:Mw2_m16_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A4 with ACOG in First-person view]]
[[Image:Mw2M16.jpg|400px]]

===Remington ACR===
The [[Bushmaster_ACR|Remington ACR]] is chambered in 5.56x45mm NATO and equipped with a silencer, reflex sight, heartbeat monitor, and a 30 round magazine in the "Cliffhanger" mission. In the mission "Takedown", it's seen with a 40mm M203 Grenade Launcher. Referred as the ACR, it is formerly known as the Magpul Masada. A special black version of the "Cliffhanger" ACR is available in the mission "Just Like Old Times" that has a maximum ammo limit of 1,260 rounds, while the limit of the regular ACR is 650 rounds. Commonly used by the Task Force 141 and Shadow Company. Regardless of single-player missions or multiplayer gamemodes, all ACR's use Magpul PMAG's, in place of the STANAG magazines.

[[Image:Bushmasteracrentry.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Bushmaster ACR Entry Carbine, 5.56x45mm NATO/6.8x43mm Rem SPC/7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:MW2AR2.png|thumb|none|400px|Bushmaster ACR used by "Roach" Sanderson in Mission "Cliffhanger".]]
[[Image:MW2ACRReloading.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Racking the action on the Bushmaster ACR on Mission "Cliffhangar", although it would be more efficient to simply press the bolt catch release button that is right next to the trigger housing.]]

===FN F2000===
An [[FN F2000#FN F2000 Tactical|FN F2000 Tactical]] (denoted by lack of optical sight) is seen in the hands of a Brazilian Militia. In singleplayer, this is used by the Russians, most notably in the oil rig, where they use thermal sights.
[[Image:Fn fs2000 blk.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN F2000 Tactical - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Mw2_fn2000_ego.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN2000 Tactical with infrared scope, first-person view.]][[Image:MW2TR6.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The FN2000 Tactical with "Masterkey" shotgun.]]

===AK-47===
The [[AK-47]] variant of the Tapco Intrafuse and T6 furniture sets and a Vltor Modstock and Stock Adapter. Standard rifle of pretty much every foreign military you fight. Most are seen with arctic or desert furniture, although some AK's in the level Loose Ends will have several in digital and woodland furniture.
[[Image:Ak47mw.2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-47 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:MW2AK-47 Red Dot Sight2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The AK-47 with a Red Dot Sight on Mission "Cliffhangar".]][[Image:AKMW2.png|thumb|none|400px|AK-47 on Captain MacTavish's back. Note M4 style telescoping stock.]]
[[Image:CptMacTavishAk47.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Captain "Soap" MacTavish with an AK-47.]]

===AK-74===
The [[AK-74]] is seen on a poster in the Multiplayer map 'Sub Base', but is not usable in the game.
[[Image:AK-74_NTW_12_92.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-74 - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Cod4mw mw2 akm poster.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-74 Poster.]]

===Heckler & Koch G3A4===
The [[Heckler & Koch G3#H&K G3A4|H&K G3A4]] appears in trailers and early screenshots, but appears to have been dropped (most likely in favor of the FAL).
[[Image:G3A4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|H&K G3A4 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:Vlc 2009-09-03 10-20-00-79.png|thumb|none|400px|]]

===IMI Galil===
During briefing for "No Russian" a newspaper article is seen showing an Ultra-nationalist with a [[Galil]].
[[Image:Galil-SAR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|IMI Galil - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mw2Galil.png|thumb|none|500px|the left Ultra-nationalist with a Galil ? ]]

===Daewoo K2===
During briefing for "No Russian" a newspaper article is seen showing a soldier of unknown nationality with a Daewoo K2.
[[Image:Daewoo-K2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Daewoo K2 Assault rifle - 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Mw2k2.png|thumb|none|500px|A soldier with a Daewoo K2 in a newspaper article.]]

===FN SCAR-L===
In the background image of multiplayer, we see a soldier carrying a third generation [[FN SCAR|SCAR-L]], but it was never used in the game.

[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|Third-Generation FN SCAR-L, 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MW2Scar.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

==Sniper Rifles==
===Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention===
Used on several occasions by Rangers, and used in the assault on Shepherd's bunker.

[[Image:M200.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Chey-Tac M-200, .408]]
[[Image:Interventionm200mw2.png|thumb|none|400px|M200 in class menu with PP-2000 Below]]
[[Image:Mw2_cheytech_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cheytech M200 I in first-person view.]]

===Barrett M82===
Used by Russian snipers covering the Mall (the stretch from the Lincoln Memorial to the Washington Monument to the Capital).

[[Image:m82a1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Barret M82 .50]]
[[Image:Mw2wall.PNG|thumb|none|400px|The Barret M82 in the sacred room.]]

===Walther WA 2000===
Used by Russian snipers in "Loose Ends", with both thermal scopes and optical scopes and by Shadow Company troops in the level "Enemy of My Enemy".

[[Image:Walther-WA2000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Walther WA 2000]]
[[Image:WA2000.jpg‎|400px|thumb|none]]
[[Image:Mw2_wa2000_egoview.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Walther WA 2000 in first-person view.]]
[[Image:Confirmation-wa2000.jpg|none|400px|A Shadow Company soldier fires a Walther Wa 2000]]

===M14 EBR===
This firearm is an [[M14 Rifle#Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR|M14]] featuring a SAGE EBR stock, Harris Bi-pod, and vertical front grip, however, it is fitted with a Magpul CTR stock instead of the standard telescoping SAGE stock. This seems to be the weapon of choice for Captain MacTavish, and is very rarely found in singleplayer without a scope attached. It is the last sniper rifle to be unlocked in multiplayer, where it is listed as an "M21EBR", likely to remind players of the actual [[M14 Rifle#M21 Designated Marksman Rifle/M25 Sniper Rifle|M21]] in ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare|Modern Warfare]]''.
[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mk 14 Mod 1 - 7.62x51 NATO]]
[[Image:Mw2_m14ebr_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M14 EBR in first-person view.]][[Image:MW2McTavishRifle.png|thumb|none|400px|Soap with the M14 EBR with a suppressor on his back.]]
[[Image:Pc_wallpaper_04_1024x768.png|thumb|none|400px|Soap with the M14 EBR. Note the Magpul CTR stock.]]

===SVD Dragunov===
The [[SVD Dragunov]] is only featured in campaign. Has winter furniture in the level "Contingency".

[[Image:SVD Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SVD Dragunov sniper rifle - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:2hMD.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Brazilian militia with a SVD sniper rifle.]]
[[Image:Mw2_svd_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SVD in first-person view.]]

===Accuracy International Arctic Warfare===
Seen in Multiplayer Menu Background art.

[[Image:Mw2AIAW.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Light Machine Guns==
===L86A1 LSW===
The [[SA80#L86A1|L86A1 Light Support Weapon]] was first seen in the "Afghanistan" MP gameplay footage. Only appears once in the entire game, during the defense of the safehouse. Confirmed as an A1 by the round charging handle. Also, in multiplayer, the ACOG sight is replaced by the SUSAT which is the standard optical sight of the British Armed Forces, the L86A1 LSW is portrayed incorrect in MW2 as it has the L85A1/A2 handguard whereas the L86A1/A2 has a shortened handguard.
[[Image:SA80-L86A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|L86A1 Light Support Weapon - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mw2l86lswbling.png|thumb|none|400px|L86 LSW]]
[[Image:Mw2_l86_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|L86 in first-person view.]]

===Heckler & Koch MG4===
The [[Heckler & Koch MG4]] is used by Russians in some levels and also seen in the Shadow Company base.

[[Image:H&KMG4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MG4, 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:PrestigeMW2MG.png|thumb|none|400px|Robert Bowling showing the artbook of the prestige edition.]]
[[Image:Mw2_mg4_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MG4 in first-person view.]]

===RPD Light Machine Gun===
The [[RPD light machine gun]] known as the "RPD" is used in multiplayer of this game and seen in the trailer by an Russian Ultra-Nationalist. Used by Brazilians, Middle Eastern OpFor, and some Russians.
[[Image:RPD-Light-Machine-Gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPD light machine gun - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:ModernWarfare2RPD.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The RPD light machine gun and M136 AT4 in the "Create-A-Class" menu.]]
[[Image:ModernWarfare2-Screenshot1-1920x1200.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian special force with a RPD light machine gun.]]
[[Image:Mw2_rpd_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPD with Reflexsight in first-person view.]]

===Steyr AUG HBAR===
A [[Steyr AUG]] H-Bar is under the light machine gun class in multiplayer, where it uses a bipod, but is used in an A2-like assault rifle configuration for single player. Used mainly by Russians. When no sight is mounted in multiplayer, the rear sight is missing.
[[Image:Steyr-AUG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Steyr AUG]] assault rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Aug-hbar.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Steyr AUG]] Hbar LMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MW2AUGA1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian Ultra-nationalist with an Steyr AUG Hbar with A1 Scope installed.]]
[[Image:MW2TR3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Soap throwing a man armed with a Steyr AUG Hbar over his shoulder.]]
[[Image:Mw2_aug_ego.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Steyr Aug with A1 scope and olive body in first-person view.]]

===M240===
Seen in game trailers.Used by US Army Rangers, Task Force 141,Shadow Company, Juggernauts, and Makarov's terrorist assaulting the airport. Often seen with a heartbeat sensor (resemblance to the motion sensors from [[Aliens]] is entirely coincidental... yeah right). Also seen mounted on the Abrams tank (unusable).
[[Image:M240-1.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|M240B 7.62x51mm NATO with newer style lower handguard]]
[[Image:MW2FNminimi.png|thumb|none|400px|M240 machine gun held by a Russian terrorist in the controversial level "No Russian".]]
[[Image:M240_heartbeatsensor.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|M240 with Heartbeat sensor.]]

==Shotguns==
===Franchi SPAS-12===
The [[Franchi SPAS-12]] is used in pump-action mode by the Russians, Shadow Company, and the Task Force, usually with no attachments. An interesting point is that in singleplayer,you can see the empty shells ejecting when the gun is cycled, but you can't see the shells in multiplayer.
[[Image:SPAS12.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Franchi SPAS-12 12-gauge with optional screw-on choke.]]
[[Image:Mw2suppressedspas12.png|thumb|none|400px|Suppressed SPAS-12 shotgun.]]
[[Image:Mw2wall.PNG|thumb|none|400px|SPAS-12 is under TAR-21.]]
[[Image:Mw2_spas_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SPAS 12 in first-person view.]]

===AA-12===
The [[AA-12]] is seen in the multiplayer trailer in use by the player, fitted with the 8-round box magazine. Used by the Russians and Shadow Company. Also appears outside the obstacle course in the first level once the player has run through it once and a supressed version with a heartbeat sensor appears in the Spec-Ops mission "Acceptable Losses.".
[[Image:AA12FullAutoShotGun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|AA-12 with 8 round magazine.]]
[[Image:MW2AA12.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The AA-12 shotgun shown in the first multiplayer video.]]
[[Image:Mw2aa12.PNG|thumb|none|400px|Reloading AA-12. Note the straight feeding lips.]]
[[Image:Mw2wall.PNG|thumb|none|400px|AA-12 is under FN-2000.]]

===Armsel Striker===
The [[Armsel Striker]] is used by a terrorist assaulting a Russian airport, it seems to have a reflex sight. Also used by many Russian soldiers, who also like to use it with a reflex sight.
[[Image:Striker.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armsel Striker - 12-gauge.]]
[[Image:MW2Armsel.png|thumb|none|400px|A Russian terrorist with an Armsel Striker type shotgun.]]
[[Image:Mw2_striker_ego.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armsel Striker with Reflexsight (Doctor?) in first-person view.]]

===Benelli M4 Super 90===
The [[Benelli M Series Super 90 Shotguns#Benelli M4|Benelli M4 Super 90]] is seen in the Special Ops mode gameplay footage. It has an olive drab colored frame in single player. Referred to as the M1014 ingame. Used by Americans and several Brazilians.
[[Image:M4Super90.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Benelli M4 Super 90 12 gauge, also known as the M1014 shotgun.]]
[[Image:Mw2m1014.PNG|thumb|400px|none|Benelli M4 Super 90 in Special Ops.]]

===Sears Ranger===
A sawed-off Sears Ranger is featured in the game. It can be dual-wielded to make up for its 2-round capacity. It can fire both barrells at the same time, despite that the Create-a-Class icon clearly has only one trigger. Used by some Brazilians.
[[Image:Remington SBS.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Sawn off double barreled shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Ranger.jpg‎|400px|thumb|none|Sawn Off Shotgun, Hammerless]]
[[Image:Mw2_ranger_ego_idle.jpg‎|400px|thumb|none|Ranger in first-person view.]]

===Winchester Model 1887===
The [[Winchester Model 1887]] is used by some Brazilians. Judging by how much damage it does, especially at range, it's most likely chambered in 10-guage. The weapon has a shortened barrel, no stock, and an enlarged lever loop. When akimbo, the weapons are flip-cocked as in ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]''.
[[Image:Win1887shotgunT2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The sawed-off Winchester 1887 with large-lever loop used by [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] as The Terminator - 10 Gauge. Note the metal plate on the lever for better handling during flip-cocking.]]
[[Image:M1887.jpg|400px|thumb|none]]
[[Image:MW2Winch1887.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Winchester Model 1887 wielded by a Russian Ultra-nationalist.]]
[[Image:Mw2_win1887_ego.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Winchester Model 1887 in first-person view.]]
[[Image:Mw2_1887_ego_repeating.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Winchester Model 1887 chambering a new round in first-person view.]]
I found this one while on the mission where you find the sacred weapon room,It was upstairs right by a few M240's

===Winchester 1200===
A [[Winchester_Model_1200/1300|Winchester 1200]] shogtun is seen in use by Russian Internal Troops in the trailer. It is only featured in the museum exhibit.
[[Image:WinM1200.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Heavily Modified Winchester 1200, used by the Marine Corps in the game]]
[[Image:MW2 W1200.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Winchester M1200 as seen in game.]]
[[Image:MW2shotgun.png|thumb|none|400px|A Russian Internal Troop with a Winchester 1200 with extended magazine.]]

==Launchers==
===AT4===
The [[M136 AT4]] unguided rocket launcher has been seen in a official multi-player video and some other confirmed videos as well. In one multi-player video it appears they named the launcher a "AT4-HS". "HS" most likely is abbreviated for "Heat-Seeking" and is also how it was able to guide it's way to a moving aircraft but can still be counter measured by flares.
[[Image:AT-4Launcher.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M136 AT4 Anti-Tank rocket launcher - 84mm]]
[[Image:MW2AT4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The player firing on an AC-130 gunship using the AT4 rocket launcher during a multi-player mode.]]

===M79 grenade launcher===
The [[M79 grenade launcher]] is issued with a black stock and grip and called the "Thumper".
[[Image:M79-Grenade-Launcher.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M79 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:MW2m79.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Mw2_eisenbeisser_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M79 "Thumper" in first-person view.]]

===FIM-92A Stinger===
The [[FIM-92A Stinger]] is used in "Wolverines!" campaign mission, and unlockable in multiplayer. Can only be fired when locked onto helicopters.
[[Image:-0976t.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FIM-92A Stinger - 70mm]]
[[Image:StingerMW.jpg‎|400px|thumb|none|FIM-92 Stinger Launcher]]
[[Image:Mw2_singer_ego_idle.jpg‎|400px|thumb|none|Stinger in game.]]

===FGM-148 Javelin===
An [[FGM-148 Javelin]] launcher seems to be another available launcher for use in Multiplayer. While the multiplayer version has limited ammo, the singleplayer version has infinite ammo. Unlike the real thing (and the MW1 version) the Javelin is able to lock on to helicopters. Used by the Russians.
:I believe the Javelin has a direct fire mode that can be used to engage low flying helicopters (same fire mode was used in ''[[War of the Worlds]]'' and ''[[Cloverfield]]''). However, in the game, the player still use top attack mode on the Mi-28s, which is not the proper way to use Javelins to engage helicopters.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 19:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
::Actually the Javelin ingame (when locked on to helicopters) shows on the HUD that it's firing in direct-fire mode, but ingame it is only coded to do top-down attacks. [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 04:34, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Javalin.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FGM-148 Javelin, 142mm]]
[[Image:Javelin.jpg|400px|thumb|none]]
[[Image:Mw2_javelin_ego_idle.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Javelin, ingame.]]

===RPG-7===
The [[RPG-7]] is seen in the "Infamy" trailer and is used by all the enemy forces.
[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPG-7 70mm Grenade Launcher]]
[[Image:Rpg-7_2.png|thumb|none|400px|A Middle East Insurgent with RPG-7 in-game.]]
[[Image:Mw2_rpg_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPG idle in first-person view.]]

==Attachments==
===M203 grenade launcher===
The [[M203 grenade launcher]] appears as an underbarrel grenade launcher for the FN SCAR, the M4A1 Carbine, and several others.
[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 grenade launcher 40mm. Note that the in-game attachment method differs from the launcher pictured.]]
[[Image:Mw2_m203_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 Launcher attached to a M4A1, ready to fire.]]
[[Image:Mw2_m203_ego_reloading.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 Launcher attached to a M4A1, during reloading. Its RIS mounting bracket is clearly visible. Note how there is no trigger housing.]]

===Knight's Armament Masterkey===
The [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]] shotgun is frequently seen mounted to rifles as an underslung shotgun like the M203. It is mostly attached to the FN FAL or SCAR-H assault rifles, but is sometimes seen on other weapons. Carries 7 shells in single player (most likely impossible to hold in such a small weapon), or 4 shells in multiplayer in the tubular magazine, and is unlocked for assault rifles after 20 M203 kills in multiplayer.
[[Image:M4masterkey01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Example of a Masterkey shotgun fitted to a M4]]
[[Image:Mw2sg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Masterkey shotgun displayed in class customization menu.]]
[[Image:Mw2_masterkey_ego_ready.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Masterkey shotgun attached to an AK47 ready to fire in first-person view.]]
[[Image:Mw2_masterkey_ego_reloading.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Masterkey shotgun during reloading in first-person view.]]
===GP-25===
The [[GP-series grenade launcher#GP-25|GP-25]] grenade launcher is sometimes seen mounted on the [[AK-47]]s in game.
[[Image:Russian GP-30 40mm caseless grenade launcher & grenades.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GP-25 Grenade Launcher -40mm]]
[[Image:Mw2 ak-47 gp-25.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A GP-25 grenade launcher mounted on an AK-47.]]

==Grenades==
===M67 hand grenade===
[[Image:M67.jpg|thumb|none|200px|M69 training grenade - an inert version of the M67 High-Explosive Fragmentation hand grenade. The real live version has a more brownish color and has painted factory markings on the body.]]
[[Image:MW2TR2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Brazilian militia with a M67 fragmentation grenade on his chest.]]

===M18 Smoke Grenade===
The [[M18 smoke grenade]] is the standard smoke grenade you use in-game.
[[Image:M18red.jpg|thumb|none|M18 smoke grenade]]
[[Image:M18Smoke-MW2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A dead Russian with M18 smoke grenades attached to his belt.]]

==Mines==
===M18A1 Claymore===
The standard issued deployable claymore for the player.
[[Image:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine]]

==Mounted==
===GE M134 Minigun===
[[GE M134 Minigun]]s are mounted on Humvees and is used by the player. In the "Wolverines!" level and in multiplayer, it is the platform for the M5 sentry gun auto-turret. Several dismantled ones can be found in Makarov's safehouse, and some are mounted (like M249 SAW's were in the original game) in some multiplayer maps.They can also be seen mounted on the Shadow Company SUVs. In some levels it becomes a vulcan cannon firing explosive rounds.
[[Image:Minigun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Dillon Aero M134 with flash suppressor - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:232.png|thumb|none|400px|First person view. Check out the soldiers with cell phones.]]
[[Image:MW2minigun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M134 on Humvees.]]
[[Image:MW2 screen 17-1255733026.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Another good view of the M134 used in the game.]]

===Mark 19 Mod 3 Automatic Grenade Launcher===
A lone [[Mk 19 grenade launcher|Mark 19 Mod 3]] automatic grenade launcher is seen on the ground next to a Humvee under repair in the "S.S.D.D." level, but is not usable in-game.
[[Image:MK19-02.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mk 19 grenade launcher 40mm with ammo box on M3 tripod.]]
[[Image:MK19gl-MW2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Mk 19 grenade launcher on the ground next to a humvee.]]

===M2 Browning Machine gun===
The [[Browning M2]] is seen mounted on a Brazilian Technical truck during the levels where the Brazilian Militia are encountered. It can be used in one instance of killing the former users but is near suicidal to do so. Like on many mounted weapons, it will overheat on continuous fire. They also appear mounted on the Stryker vehicle and the Abrams tank.
(Note the lack of ammo box or bullets).
[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB on vehicle mount - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:MW2 M2 Browning.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB as seen in-game. (note the M249 SAW icon which is used for mounted Machine Guns.)]]
[[Image:ModernWarfare2-Browning.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Browning M2 viewed from the side.]]
[[Image:AbramsM2-MW2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Browning M2 mounted on a destroyed M1 Abrams tank.]]

===M249 SAW===
The [[FN Minimi#M249 SAW|M249 SAW]] can be seen mounted on a fallen tree and used as a turret in the level Whiskey Hotel.
[[Image:Fn_m249saw_mk2_10-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M249-E2 SAW - upgraded M249 with heat shield and full synthetic Stock - 5.56x45mm with 200 round ammo drum.]]
[[Image:Mw2 M249.jpg|thumb|none|400px|An M249 SAW mounted on a log in the level"Whiskey Hotel".]]
[[Image:MW2-M249side.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A side view of the M249 mounted on the log.]]

=See Also=

'''Call of Duty franchise'''

* ''[[Call of Duty]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: United Offensive]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: Finest Hour]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 2]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 2: Big Red One]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 3]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Nintendo DS Version)]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: World at War]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: World at War: Final Fronts]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: World at War (DS)]]''
* ''[[Call of Duty: Black Ops]]''

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]

Talk:Heckler & Koch G3

2010-07-13T13:11:00Z

P226: /* Fully automatic? */

==Image gallery - OTHER variants of the G3==

[[Image:G3a3zf.jpg|thumb|350px|none|G3A3ZF with Hensoldt 4x24 optical sight - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[Image:HK51K.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Fleming HK51K - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:NPSHK51.JPG|thumb|400px|none|]]

Picture of the G3 SG/1 is incorrect, the German army G3 SG/1 was fitted with a smaller non illuminated scope on a H&K proprieatary "claw" type mounting, and has compicated "set" trigger mechanism visible as a second "trigger" behind the normal trigger.

==HK21==
HK21 should have its own page since it has four variants of its own.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 05:28, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

== Fully automatic? ==

Is the g3 when fired on fully automatic jumpy and hard to control like the FAL? Since both fire the same round.--P226

Talk:Heckler & Koch G3

2010-07-13T13:09:23Z

P226: /* Fully automatic? */ new section