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	<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&amp;feedformat=atom&amp;user=Mercer</id>
	<title>Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]</title>
	<link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&amp;feedformat=atom&amp;user=Mercer"/>
	<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mercer"/>
	<updated>2026-04-03T21:59:26Z</updated>
	<subtitle>User contributions</subtitle>
	<generator>MediaWiki 1.41.0</generator>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Scorpion&amp;diff=359699</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Scorpion</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Scorpion&amp;diff=359699"/>
		<updated>2010-11-27T08:03:57Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Finally, a widescreen bluray version of this film is coming */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Finally, a widescreen bluray version of this film is coming==&lt;br /&gt;
No more crap FULLSCREEN badly transfered  DVDs.  Apparently Synapse procured the rights to Red Scorpion and they found a LONGER director's cut of the film.  Since they have openly stated that they want to get the original negatives and do a master transfer and a  blu ray release, I would wait until that happens. Woo hoo!  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]  (yeah, I know it's bad cinema, but it was a fun shoot em up that was ridiculous and fun).&lt;br /&gt;
:Thank god. I have been looking for a decent copy of this movie for years. I can be patient for awhile longer. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 08:01, 27 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Scorpion&amp;diff=359698</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Scorpion</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Scorpion&amp;diff=359698"/>
		<updated>2010-11-27T08:01:57Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Finally, a widescreen bluray version of this film is coming */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Finally, a widescreen bluray version of this film is coming==&lt;br /&gt;
No more crap FULLSCREEN badly transfered  DVDs.  Apparently Synapse procured the rights to Red Scorpion and they found a LONGER director's cut of the film.  Since they have openly stated that they want to get the original negatives and do a master transfer and a  blu ray release, I would wait until that happens. Woo hoo!  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]  (yeah, I know it's bad cinema, but it was a fun shoot em up that was ridiculous and fun).&lt;br /&gt;
:Thank god. I have been looking for a copy of this movie for years. I can be patient for awhile longer. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 08:01, 27 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_500&amp;diff=355573</id>
		<title>Talk:Smith &amp; Wesson Model 500</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_500&amp;diff=355573"/>
		<updated>2010-11-14T16:47:39Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* The Punisher */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== .500 S&amp;amp;W Magnum ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is the Bullet specificly made the this Gun and how much bigger is it compared to say the .357 Magnum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Basically a .357 mag is pushing a 158gr to a 180gr bullet...but the .500 S&amp;amp;W push anything from a 300gr to a 500gr bullet, and someone is even making a 702gr bullet for it...just crazy big but not as good ballistically as a .460 S&amp;amp;W.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:03, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Punisher==&lt;br /&gt;
When did Tom Jane use it? I know Ray Stevenson did in War Zone, but I don't remember it in the first one. -SasquatchJim.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He provided the voice in the videogame. That's the only time he &amp;quot;used&amp;quot; it. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Heckler_%26_Koch_USP&amp;diff=355442</id>
		<title>Talk:Heckler &amp; Koch USP</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Heckler_%26_Koch_USP&amp;diff=355442"/>
		<updated>2010-11-14T04:07:56Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* LAPD service weapons */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Additional Variants==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:IMFDB 22 Jack Bauer Live Firing HK USP Compact.jpg|thumb|none|450px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen-used live firing Heckler &amp;amp; Koch USP Compact. This weapon is verified as screen used from the series '''24.''' The gun was used in numerous scenes throughout Seasons 3 through 8 of the series. IMFDB thanks [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet] for providing this photo.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:ExDeUSP.jpg|none|thumb|450px|Heckler &amp;amp; Koch USP .45 ACP mocked up to resemble a [[Heckler &amp;amp; Koch Mark 23]], with a LAM unit and fake Knight's Armament suppressor, used by [[Kurt Russell]] in the film ''[[Executive Decision]]''. (Photo from Long Mountain Outfitters)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Blade2-2.jpg|thumb|450px|none|[[H&amp;amp;K USP#Heckler &amp;amp; Koch USP Match|H&amp;amp;K USP Match]]s - 9x19mm used by [[Wesley Snipes]] in the movies ''[[Blade II]]'' and ''[[Blade: Trinity]]''.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Discussion==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a great, affordable, light, accurate, and reliable handgun. It has been my BUG for 9 years and I wouldn't have it any other way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but, &amp;quot;affordable&amp;quot;?  Surely you concede that a new USP costs more than any other polymer-framed service pistol on the market (and often more than some steel-framed pistols)? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:00, 3 December 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well yes the USP is expensive but the old fart has gotta point, it's a pretty awesome gun.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Without a doubt my favorite tactical handgun&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My favorite is the Expert model&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I would buy a USP45 in a second if they did something about the trigger-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]]&lt;br /&gt;
--You CAN take it to a gunsmith and have the trigger cleaned up. You might try the Expert model or the Mark 23 if you want a better trigger. Heck, if you're going to go spend $1,500 to $2,000 on a gun, might as well get something you like. I honestly would rather spend that kind of money on a Les Baer or something, but the USP is good too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have a question, is the USP Match just a regular USP with the compensator? Are there any othere differences? Is the compensator removable?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It has target sights, an adjustable trigger, and the barrel is extended. The compensator can be removed, but doing so leaves you with a rather awkward looking barrel. It also has the same rubber o-ring around the barrel that the Mk. 23 has.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:24, 9 December 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I love the gun except it's got one squeeky ass trigger.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-The best two USP models are the Expert and the Mark 23. That's coming directly from my friends who have shot both in IDPA for years. The Expert and Mark 23 both have better, more cleaned up triggers compared to the base USP models. All of them are exceptionally accurate and reliable. The only compromise you have to make is in the wallet. They aren't cheap.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It has everything. Accurate, lightweight, high ammo capacity, virtually indestructible. But it's big (big grip - don't believe me - hold a Mark 23). And they are expensive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==LAPD service weapons==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it legal for LAPD to use USPs in real life or was it just made up for 24?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not an official issue weapon, at least according to Wikipedia. Only the Beretta 92, various S&amp;amp;W Automatics and Glocks. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:17, 24 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wikipedia is not a reliable source for information, because it is a Wiki like IMFDB. --[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] 19:11, 5 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I know for fact the LAPD does use the Beretta (I would think it's kinda common-knowledge, at least to us gun guys), and I have seen LAPD officers with a couple of different S&amp;amp;W autos. I also agree that the USP is not any official service weapon (or at least, I seriously doubt it is). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:48, 6 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LAPD also uses the Kimber TLE II 1911. (They call it the LAPD SWAT Custom). But detectives use this gun as well as LAPD SWAT teams.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've never seen any LAPD officers with Glocks. Just about all of them have the Beretta 92FS because that's their standard issue sidearm. And the occasional old-timers with the 6-shooter .38 Specials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know of a single police department in the United States that uses H&amp;amp;K handguns. More or less because of the price. They do use H&amp;amp;K MP5s on SWAT teams. Although I see that phased out more and more in favor of the M4A1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LAPD is transitioning to Glock, Upland uses USP i believe, and USP is on the LASD approved carry list. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 04:07, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Slide==&lt;br /&gt;
Does the USP have a stamped or milled slide? I've heard it both ways. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-It's CNC milled.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ithaca_37&amp;diff=353799</id>
		<title>Talk:Ithaca 37</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ithaca_37&amp;diff=353799"/>
		<updated>2010-11-08T05:24:08Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Is the ejection system patented? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Additional Variants==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Ithaca37Featherllight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ithaca 37 Featherlight - 12 gauge]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:xxhardball.jpg|none|600px|thumb|Airsoft Ithaca 37 &amp;quot;Stakeout&amp;quot; - 12 gauge replica shotgun nearly identical to the one used in the game ''[[Grand Theft Auto IV]]''.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ithaca represented in movies far more than its numbers==&lt;br /&gt;
I've noticed that Ithaca shotguns are by far one of the LEAST available pump shotguns on the market and yet, they show up tons of time in films and TV shows.  The Remingtons, Winchester (until Winchester stopped making pump shotguns) and Mossbergs are FAR more common, the Ithacas show up in films far more  frequently than their numbers in the marketplace merit. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:09, 21 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;(until Winchester stopped making pump shotguns)&amp;quot;I know Winchester is &amp;quot;Defunct&amp;quot; but I believe the 1300 Defender is still produced under the name &amp;quot;SXP Defender&amp;quot; http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/winchesters-sxp-defender-pump-shotgun/ --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:17, 21 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Wasn't the Ithaca the standard shotgun for the LAPD at one point? If that is the case then it could be that Ithaca's are simply more readily available in the Hollywood area and so are used more frequently in movies for that reason.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Being the 'official' shotgun of a major police force, and being seen in everything from ''[[Dead Bang]]'' to ''[[The French Connection]]'' to ''[[Tropic Thunder]]'' doesn't really translate into film appearances, in that tons of other shotguns are available in movie armories, but I believe the Ithaca has a fanbase amongst propmasters and directors (I'm not one of them, but the Ithaca seems to have an air of 'coolness' that I just can't put my finger on, that causes others to constantly pick it as the shotgun to film.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:57, 21 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::When I made my police comment I was suggesting that maybe because police in the Hollywood area used the gun in large numbers that there were plenty of used, surplus Ithacas available, however since you said that there are many other types of shotguns readily available as well, my suggestion is clearly wrong and can be disregarded.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Extended Magazine Tube photo==&lt;br /&gt;
Does IMFDB not have a picture of an Ithaca with an extended magazine tube?[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Gee Anonymous.  Why don't you go out and GET US a pic of one?  Sure Predator20 went and found a so-so Jacked Google image, but don't be spouting like we're obliged to provide a shot of one.  I've been trying to get a photo of one for a long time, but Ithaca doesn't make that style any more.  Have you seen the 'new' Ithaca 37s?  Yuck! They don't even look like Ithacas anymore :(  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:06, 21 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You mean like this? The pic below originally had another Ithaca without an extension above it, I chopped it off. It's better than the one that was before it, the previous pic was at an angle. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:26, 3 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:IthacaExtMagTub.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ithaca 37 with extended magazine tube - 12 Gauge]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Is the ejection system patented?  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I haven't heard of any other shotguns that both load and eject from the bottom port, and I'd like to know if that's a feature that's protected by a patent, like the forwards-casing ejection system of the FN F2000. A bottom-ejecting shotgun would definitely be more useful around corners or tighter areas where you don't want hot casings flying in unpredictable ways, and as the article states, it is automatically ambidextrous in design. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I'd have to say it is probably is a specific and patented design feature - I too haven't heard of any other shotgun that has bottom ejection (Most other shotguns solve the left/right issue with left-handed models that eject to the left, such as Remington). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:29, 8 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The Remington Model 10 had the bottom ejection system before the Ithaca did. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
Browning BPS is bottom ejecting/loading as well [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 05:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ithaca_37&amp;diff=353797</id>
		<title>Talk:Ithaca 37</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ithaca_37&amp;diff=353797"/>
		<updated>2010-11-08T05:23:57Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Additional Variants==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Ithaca37Featherllight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ithaca 37 Featherlight - 12 gauge]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:xxhardball.jpg|none|600px|thumb|Airsoft Ithaca 37 &amp;quot;Stakeout&amp;quot; - 12 gauge replica shotgun nearly identical to the one used in the game ''[[Grand Theft Auto IV]]''.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ithaca represented in movies far more than its numbers==&lt;br /&gt;
I've noticed that Ithaca shotguns are by far one of the LEAST available pump shotguns on the market and yet, they show up tons of time in films and TV shows.  The Remingtons, Winchester (until Winchester stopped making pump shotguns) and Mossbergs are FAR more common, the Ithacas show up in films far more  frequently than their numbers in the marketplace merit. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:09, 21 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;(until Winchester stopped making pump shotguns)&amp;quot;I know Winchester is &amp;quot;Defunct&amp;quot; but I believe the 1300 Defender is still produced under the name &amp;quot;SXP Defender&amp;quot; http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/winchesters-sxp-defender-pump-shotgun/ --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:17, 21 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Wasn't the Ithaca the standard shotgun for the LAPD at one point? If that is the case then it could be that Ithaca's are simply more readily available in the Hollywood area and so are used more frequently in movies for that reason.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Being the 'official' shotgun of a major police force, and being seen in everything from ''[[Dead Bang]]'' to ''[[The French Connection]]'' to ''[[Tropic Thunder]]'' doesn't really translate into film appearances, in that tons of other shotguns are available in movie armories, but I believe the Ithaca has a fanbase amongst propmasters and directors (I'm not one of them, but the Ithaca seems to have an air of 'coolness' that I just can't put my finger on, that causes others to constantly pick it as the shotgun to film.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:57, 21 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::When I made my police comment I was suggesting that maybe because police in the Hollywood area used the gun in large numbers that there were plenty of used, surplus Ithacas available, however since you said that there are many other types of shotguns readily available as well, my suggestion is clearly wrong and can be disregarded.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Extended Magazine Tube photo==&lt;br /&gt;
Does IMFDB not have a picture of an Ithaca with an extended magazine tube?[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Gee Anonymous.  Why don't you go out and GET US a pic of one?  Sure Predator20 went and found a so-so Jacked Google image, but don't be spouting like we're obliged to provide a shot of one.  I've been trying to get a photo of one for a long time, but Ithaca doesn't make that style any more.  Have you seen the 'new' Ithaca 37s?  Yuck! They don't even look like Ithacas anymore :(  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:06, 21 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You mean like this? The pic below originally had another Ithaca without an extension above it, I chopped it off. It's better than the one that was before it, the previous pic was at an angle. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:26, 3 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:IthacaExtMagTub.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ithaca 37 with extended magazine tube - 12 Gauge]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Is the ejection system patented?  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I haven't heard of any other shotguns that both load and eject from the bottom port, and I'd like to know if that's a feature that's protected by a patent, like the forwards-casing ejection system of the FN F2000. A bottom-ejecting shotgun would definitely be more useful around corners or tighter areas where you don't want hot casings flying in unpredictable ways, and as the article states, it is automatically ambidextrous in design. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I'd have to say it is probably is a specific and patented design feature - I too haven't heard of any other shotgun that has bottom ejection (Most other shotguns solve the left/right issue with left-handed models that eject to the left, such as Remington). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:29, 8 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The Remington Model 10 had the bottom ejection system before the Ithaca did. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
Browning BPS is bottom ececting/loading as well [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 05:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Burn_Notice&amp;diff=316102</id>
		<title>Talk:Burn Notice</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Burn_Notice&amp;diff=316102"/>
		<updated>2010-08-19T21:29:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Remington 870 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Lol Wut?==&lt;br /&gt;
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: &amp;quot;I know that in the new Burn Notice episode &amp;quot;Question &amp;amp; Answer,&amp;quot; a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is &amp;quot;Double Down&amp;quot; look it up.&amp;quot; Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Formatting==&lt;br /&gt;
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the &amp;quot;Edit&amp;quot; button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on &amp;quot;The Unit&amp;quot;). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like &amp;quot;not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle&amp;quot; instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked.  That's definetly not a Jericho.  I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model.  Here's the image I got&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is either a S&amp;amp;W 4006 or S&amp;amp;W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong.  --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fiona's assault rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sam's Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona.  Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing.  It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR.  I don't think it's an SR-25.  They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Mark 23==&lt;br /&gt;
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==sig 226==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Errors==&lt;br /&gt;
2 Errors of note:  The Steyr is a Remington 700.  The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present.  It's not a ProHunter either.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Winchester 1300's aren't either.  Note the lack of v-shaped reciever.  They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Accuracy International==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During the episode &amp;quot;Double Booked&amp;quot; Michael apparently assembles an &amp;quot;AI AWC&amp;quot; but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Desert Eagle ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Added Desert Eagle to handgun list.  Season 3 Episode 4 &amp;quot;Fearless Leader&amp;quot;.  --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
(UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Beretta Tomcat==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Season 3 Episode 8 &amp;quot;Friends Like These&amp;quot;. Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.&lt;br /&gt;
==Sig not Glock==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered Glock 19.]]&lt;br /&gt;
 - This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==HK USP compact 45==&lt;br /&gt;
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Fiona's M1==&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.&lt;br /&gt;
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;BR&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''The &amp;quot;Family Business&amp;quot; M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in &amp;quot;Turn and Burn.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Fiona's rifle==&lt;br /&gt;
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend&lt;br /&gt;
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&amp;amp;catalog_=B&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You are right.  Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S3Ep13==&lt;br /&gt;
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great show ==&lt;br /&gt;
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Heh, right on. &amp;quot;Honey! I got you a S&amp;amp;W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!&amp;quot; --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== CZ 75BD ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In season 3 episode 6 &amp;quot;the hunter&amp;quot; Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BNS4==&lt;br /&gt;
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Khan's Gun==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px  ]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&amp;amp;W. [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Nope.  [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What are these==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
these guns look really dressed up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler &amp;amp; Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode?  It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
looks like a non gun&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911).  And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now.  Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Original CZ 75... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S04E06==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :&amp;lt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S04E09==&lt;br /&gt;
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&amp;amp;K P30 on Michael&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Breaking Up By Season? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season.  The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season.  Thoughts?  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==&lt;br /&gt;
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the &amp;quot;laser targeting assist&amp;quot; she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Remington 870==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the &amp;quot;water shell&amp;quot; is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&amp;amp;W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the &amp;quot;water round.&amp;quot; No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::They look like nickel plated Winchester 1300 defenders with pistol grips and standard mag tubes. And I don't think they're airsoft, if you look down the barrel of one of them in the case, you see residue from firing blanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Winchester 1300 Defs? Bah, why didn't I think of that? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::- Not a 1300 either. 1300s have a single pin, and the safety button would be visible as would the slide release. And the &amp;quot;residue&amp;quot; could be just about anything, and I think its more likely to be from lighting. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Burn_Notice&amp;diff=315137</id>
		<title>Talk:Burn Notice</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Burn_Notice&amp;diff=315137"/>
		<updated>2010-08-17T20:30:02Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Remington 870 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Lol Wut?==&lt;br /&gt;
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: &amp;quot;I know that in the new Burn Notice episode &amp;quot;Question &amp;amp; Answer,&amp;quot; a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is &amp;quot;Double Down&amp;quot; look it up.&amp;quot; Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Formatting==&lt;br /&gt;
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the &amp;quot;Edit&amp;quot; button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on &amp;quot;The Unit&amp;quot;). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like &amp;quot;not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle&amp;quot; instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked.  That's definetly not a Jericho.  I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model.  Here's the image I got&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is either a S&amp;amp;W 4006 or S&amp;amp;W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong.  --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fiona's assault rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sam's Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona.  Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing.  It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR.  I don't think it's an SR-25.  They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Mark 23==&lt;br /&gt;
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==sig 226==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Errors==&lt;br /&gt;
2 Errors of note:  The Steyr is a Remington 700.  The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present.  It's not a ProHunter either.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Winchester 1300's aren't either.  Note the lack of v-shaped reciever.  They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Accuracy International==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During the episode &amp;quot;Double Booked&amp;quot; Michael apparently assembles an &amp;quot;AI AWC&amp;quot; but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Desert Eagle ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Added Desert Eagle to handgun list.  Season 3 Episode 4 &amp;quot;Fearless Leader&amp;quot;.  --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
(UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Beretta Tomcat==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Season 3 Episode 8 &amp;quot;Friends Like These&amp;quot;. Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.&lt;br /&gt;
==Sig not Glock==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered Glock 19.]]&lt;br /&gt;
 - This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==HK USP compact 45==&lt;br /&gt;
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Fiona's M1==&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.&lt;br /&gt;
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;BR&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''The &amp;quot;Family Business&amp;quot; M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in &amp;quot;Turn and Burn.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Fiona's rifle==&lt;br /&gt;
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend&lt;br /&gt;
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&amp;amp;catalog_=B&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You are right.  Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S3Ep13==&lt;br /&gt;
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great show ==&lt;br /&gt;
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Heh, right on. &amp;quot;Honey! I got you a S&amp;amp;W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!&amp;quot; --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== CZ 75BD ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In season 3 episode 6 &amp;quot;the hunter&amp;quot; Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BNS4==&lt;br /&gt;
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Khan's Gun==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px  ]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&amp;amp;W. [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Nope.  [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What are these==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
these guns look really dressed up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler &amp;amp; Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode?  It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
looks like a non gun&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911).  And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now.  Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Original CZ 75... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S04E06==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :&amp;lt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S04E09==&lt;br /&gt;
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&amp;amp;K P30 on Michael&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Breaking Up By Season? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season.  The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season.  Thoughts?  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==&lt;br /&gt;
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the &amp;quot;laser targeting assist&amp;quot; she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Remington 870==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the &amp;quot;water shell&amp;quot; is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&amp;amp;W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the &amp;quot;water round.&amp;quot; No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Burn_Notice&amp;diff=315136</id>
		<title>Talk:Burn Notice</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Burn_Notice&amp;diff=315136"/>
		<updated>2010-08-17T20:29:35Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Remington 870 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Lol Wut?==&lt;br /&gt;
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: &amp;quot;I know that in the new Burn Notice episode &amp;quot;Question &amp;amp; Answer,&amp;quot; a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is &amp;quot;Double Down&amp;quot; look it up.&amp;quot; Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Formatting==&lt;br /&gt;
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the &amp;quot;Edit&amp;quot; button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on &amp;quot;The Unit&amp;quot;). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like &amp;quot;not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle&amp;quot; instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked.  That's definetly not a Jericho.  I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model.  Here's the image I got&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is either a S&amp;amp;W 4006 or S&amp;amp;W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong.  --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fiona's assault rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sam's Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona.  Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing.  It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR.  I don't think it's an SR-25.  They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Mark 23==&lt;br /&gt;
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==sig 226==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Errors==&lt;br /&gt;
2 Errors of note:  The Steyr is a Remington 700.  The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present.  It's not a ProHunter either.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Winchester 1300's aren't either.  Note the lack of v-shaped reciever.  They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Accuracy International==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During the episode &amp;quot;Double Booked&amp;quot; Michael apparently assembles an &amp;quot;AI AWC&amp;quot; but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Desert Eagle ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Added Desert Eagle to handgun list.  Season 3 Episode 4 &amp;quot;Fearless Leader&amp;quot;.  --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
(UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Beretta Tomcat==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Season 3 Episode 8 &amp;quot;Friends Like These&amp;quot;. Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.&lt;br /&gt;
==Sig not Glock==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered Glock 19.]]&lt;br /&gt;
 - This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==HK USP compact 45==&lt;br /&gt;
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Fiona's M1==&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.&lt;br /&gt;
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;BR&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''The &amp;quot;Family Business&amp;quot; M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in &amp;quot;Turn and Burn.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Fiona's rifle==&lt;br /&gt;
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend&lt;br /&gt;
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&amp;amp;catalog_=B&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You are right.  Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S3Ep13==&lt;br /&gt;
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great show ==&lt;br /&gt;
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Heh, right on. &amp;quot;Honey! I got you a S&amp;amp;W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!&amp;quot; --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== CZ 75BD ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In season 3 episode 6 &amp;quot;the hunter&amp;quot; Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BNS4==&lt;br /&gt;
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Khan's Gun==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px  ]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&amp;amp;W. [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Nope.  [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What are these==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
these guns look really dressed up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler &amp;amp; Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode?  It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
looks like a non gun&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911).  And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now.  Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Original CZ 75... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S04E06==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :&amp;lt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S04E09==&lt;br /&gt;
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&amp;amp;K P30 on Michael&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Breaking Up By Season? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season.  The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season.  Thoughts?  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==&lt;br /&gt;
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the &amp;quot;laser targeting assist&amp;quot; she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Remington 870==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the &amp;quot;water shell&amp;quot; is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&amp;amp;W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the &amp;quot;water round.&amp;quot; No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Burn_Notice&amp;diff=314145</id>
		<title>Talk:Burn Notice</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Burn_Notice&amp;diff=314145"/>
		<updated>2010-08-15T16:16:24Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Remington 870 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Lol Wut?==&lt;br /&gt;
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: &amp;quot;I know that in the new Burn Notice episode &amp;quot;Question &amp;amp; Answer,&amp;quot; a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is &amp;quot;Double Down&amp;quot; look it up.&amp;quot; Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Formatting==&lt;br /&gt;
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the &amp;quot;Edit&amp;quot; button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on &amp;quot;The Unit&amp;quot;). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like &amp;quot;not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle&amp;quot; instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked.  That's definetly not a Jericho.  I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model.  Here's the image I got&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is either a S&amp;amp;W 4006 or S&amp;amp;W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong.  --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fiona's assault rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sam's Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona.  Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing.  It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR.  I don't think it's an SR-25.  They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Mark 23==&lt;br /&gt;
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==sig 226==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Errors==&lt;br /&gt;
2 Errors of note:  The Steyr is a Remington 700.  The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present.  It's not a ProHunter either.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Winchester 1300's aren't either.  Note the lack of v-shaped reciever.  They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Accuracy International==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During the episode &amp;quot;Double Booked&amp;quot; Michael apparently assembles an &amp;quot;AI AWC&amp;quot; but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Desert Eagle ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Added Desert Eagle to handgun list.  Season 3 Episode 4 &amp;quot;Fearless Leader&amp;quot;.  --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
(UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Beretta Tomcat==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Season 3 Episode 8 &amp;quot;Friends Like These&amp;quot;. Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.&lt;br /&gt;
==Sig not Glock==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered Glock 19.]]&lt;br /&gt;
 - This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==HK USP compact 45==&lt;br /&gt;
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Fiona's M1==&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.&lt;br /&gt;
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;BR&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''The &amp;quot;Family Business&amp;quot; M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in &amp;quot;Turn and Burn.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Fiona's rifle==&lt;br /&gt;
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend&lt;br /&gt;
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&amp;amp;catalog_=B&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You are right.  Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S3Ep13==&lt;br /&gt;
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great show ==&lt;br /&gt;
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Heh, right on. &amp;quot;Honey! I got you a S&amp;amp;W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!&amp;quot; --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== CZ 75BD ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In season 3 episode 6 &amp;quot;the hunter&amp;quot; Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Bn1.jpg]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BNS4==&lt;br /&gt;
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Khan's Gun==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[ Image:Screencap.jpg  ]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&amp;amp;W. [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Nope.  [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What are these==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
these guns look really dressed up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[ Image:Bns4.jpg ]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler &amp;amp; Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode?  It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
looks like a non gun&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Original CZ 75... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S04E06==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :&amp;lt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==S04E09==&lt;br /&gt;
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&amp;amp;K P30 on Michael&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Breaking Up By Season? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season.  The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season.  Thoughts?  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the &amp;quot;laser targeting assist&amp;quot; she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Remington 870==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Burn_Notice#Remington_870_Pistol_Grip]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the &amp;quot;water shell&amp;quot; is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=308500</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Dead Redemption</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=308500"/>
		<updated>2010-08-02T02:16:48Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Assassin Outfit? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Holy patron saint of awesome there's a fucking C96 in the game. I dont care about historical innacuracies, Im glad they finally put this gun in another game. Plus I've been wanting to see it in another western setting since Joe Kidd. Plus I can get all...Lawrence of arabia-y...anyone agree?--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its not inaccurate, the game takes place in 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And now I know. AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well played sir.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Il Grande Silenzio (aka The Great Silence) also features C96 used by the main character in deadly effect. Brilliant movie, you should see it.--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 12:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will do. Now, if somebody would just make a game where I could use a webley other than Bioshock/Darksector. And a mauser. AT THE SAME TIME WOAH!!!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 18:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==This page's format==&lt;br /&gt;
Nice work so far.  I look forward to seeing the page's creators fix the minor page layout errors.  i.e. don't put a LINK to the gun page.  Write an original paragraph about who uses the gun and how it appears in the game and hyperlink the gun NAME to the gun page.  Remember to check the rules &amp;amp; standards, the titles in the sections are never hyperlinked, only the name of the gun in the written section describing the usage in the game.  Also every image should have THUMB in the wiki line with a size designator and the IMFDB page standard descriptors in the gun image and the screenshot.  Any insightful summaries about the game and it's back story would also be nice.  good job.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't planning on adding details about each weapon until after the game is released, and more info is available, also, this is my first try at editing a wiki. (Wematanye)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How come there's no 1887 shotguns. They'd make more sense than an Auto-5 or a pump-action. Browing designed the lever-action specifically for frontiersmen.&lt;br /&gt;
(Hughjefender)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mannlicher M95 or Carcano 38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rifle which is currently called the &amp;quot;Mannlicher 1895&amp;quot; seems to be rather a Carcano 38 which can be seen at the front barrel band. Lookt it up on surplusrifle or google. The Austrian Mannlicher 95 has a different band. Furthermore, but I am not 100% sure about this, the Austrians did not shorten the M95s before WWI. So no matter which rifle it is it is anachronistic in all cases, but it really looks like a Carcano 38.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi it's me again. I just saw that the rifle was positively identified as a Carcano by a recently added screenshot, showing the characteristic magazine which distinguishes the Italian Mannlicher Carcano from the Austrian Steyr Mannlicher M95. Thus the Mannlicher 95 could be removed from the &amp;quot;Needs positive Identification&amp;quot; section.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]] 19 April 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Colt M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
:I was on the Red Dead Redemption wiki the other day and the good ole 1911 was listed as a usable weapon-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 05:20, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well the game is set in 1911 (From what I've been told) so could it possible? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 09:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The game is actually set in 1908 from what I've heard. Chris_Hun7er 17:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The red dead wiki has a number of weapons that are unconfirmed. They are either just hopeful or mistaken, confusing the Bordchart for a Luger and the Colt 1903/1908 for a 1911&lt;br /&gt;
 I have also heard it being set in 1911 [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where did you hear that? all official statements I have heard say 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I couldn't specifically tell you, but I believe it was from a few gaming sites (Games Radar, IGN, Game Informer etc.) [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:28, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had heard the game took place in 1908, which wouldn't make the 1911 appropriate...however who's to say all of the games events take place in the year 1908...esspecially since they talk about the mexican revolution being apart of the game which happened in 1911&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well it would make the 1911 very inappropriate actually. And the game doesn't actually contain the revolution proper, but rather the events leading up to the revolution. That being said I highly doubt the 1911 would be in the same game when the 1903/1908 is already confirmed. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 04:36, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'se reading the Playstation Store description of the game and it says that the game takes place in 1911.--[[Special:Contributions/74.177.189.181|74.177.189.181]] 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe it goes from 1908 to 1911? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well we'll all find out tomorrow children. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 04:30, 18 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's official, no 1911, no luger, no colt walker, no colt navy, no springfield 1903, no winchester 1887, or anything else people have claimed to see in the game or heard from someone. All small arms have already been identified. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 19:20, 18 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just for reference, the games does take place in 1911, it's on the back of the box [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:57, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But the map in the actual game says 1910 on it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, but that could just mean you have a year old map.--[[Special:Contributions/74.177.136.12|74.177.136.12]] 20:59, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's definitely set in 1911. If you look at (SPOILERS)John's tombstone, you'll see he died in 1911. (END SPOILERS) However, it is possible that the game starts in 1910, but transitions to 1911 at some point. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:44, 2 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Merged Carcano Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a heads up, I moved the image in &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle&amp;quot; and deleted the &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; section. Chris_Hun7er 5:50, 10 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Krag/body ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the actual rifle, but does the second Krag-Jorgensen screen shot show a naked person hanging from the ceiling?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It certainly does. And according to some early reviews there is much worse to be found in the game. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 23:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do you mean in terms of brutality or of nudity?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Both from the sound of it[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 00:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hurrah for gratuitous violence!-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 02:17, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, if that's the scene I believe it is, if you inspect the dead body after the cutscene you can see that his genitals have been cut off. Lovely. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Colt New Service/Colt New Army ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
has it been positively identified yet?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Changed the protection level on this page==&lt;br /&gt;
Now you must log in as a user to edit.  It keeps all the anonymous kids from undoing all your hard work :)  MPM2008 (a mod)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Um glock?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
why is there a pic of an animated glock on page?&lt;br /&gt;
:Anonymous User [[Special:Contributions/72.82.219.161|72.82.219.161]] put it on the page, perhaps not realizing that Example.jpg linked to a different image.  ANYWAY, that's one reason why I BLOCKED anonymous users from editing this page.  Dumb stuff like that.  It has been fixed.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:48, 22 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Thoughts?==&lt;br /&gt;
So Now that RDR has hit the streets, what do you guys think of it? I bought it thinking it would be fun, but nothing more than GTA IV in the West. Boy was I ever wrong! This has so much more to offer, and is one of the best games to come out in recent years. The combat is exciting and fun, the graphics are stunning, the story is awesome, and the sound effects are pure western! Just picking up an old Krag or SAA and capping some Mexican rebels or gang members if a hoot. The Multiplayer will keep you playing after the epic story is completed, and I think this is a game everybody should pick up. Besides minor glitches, it's perfect, 10 out of 10![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The funny part is that the glitches actually added to the fun (for me at least). Seeing flying deer or riding an invisible horse is simply gold [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:52, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I love the game. Granted, the story isn't the greatest, but it's still an amazing game, especially in terms of gameplay. If they made a sequel, I would certainly buy it. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Maxim==&lt;br /&gt;
According to rockstar social club (lists in-depth analysis of kills and such) its labeled as a Browning, which is quite possible considering that a water cooled m1919 did exist, and it looked similar. [[Special:Contributions/74.163.238.134|74.163.238.134]] 00:02, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually it's a Browning M1917, my bad. [[Special:Contributions/74.163.238.134|74.163.238.134]] 22:26, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
anyone going to change it?[[Special:Contributions/184.32.172.173|184.32.172.173]] 17:42, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Either way, it's anachronistic, since the game is set in 1911. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:49, 2 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Quigley==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Who is John Quigley?&lt;br /&gt;
Do you perhaps mean Matthew Quigley from Quigley Down Under or is that a different person? [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probably the name Quigley is a small cameo. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mauser C96 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Mauser C96 in-game is NOT fully automatic, just semi (as the &amp;quot;Savvy merchant caption&amp;quot; picture already states). Please change that. --[[Special:Contributions/85.3.141.99|85.3.141.99]] 17:28, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:In single player it's fully automatic. [[Special:Contributions/184.32.172.173|184.32.172.173]] 17:41, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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In Multiplayer it is still full-auto, its just REALLY slow [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 03:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
== Golden Guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If any of youse guys have golden guns, screencap them and upload them. I only have the Borchart and the New Service. I'll get the borchart up later today [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 14:19, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== High Power Pistol ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just read on another site. They claim that the high power is actually the FN 1903 NOT the Colt 1903. Kinda makes sense figure I'll leave it up to someone else to make sure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its definatly the FN 1903, Look at the slide lenght. I'm no good at this so can someone else please change it for me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:45, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== LeMat loading ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hold up, if the LeMat is not a break-top revolver, how does it load?&lt;br /&gt;
: It's a percussion revolver, so it loads by packing the front of the cylinders. Look at the frame by frame shots of a LeMat being loaded in this film: [[The Quick and the Dead]]. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
::There were actually pinfire and centerfire versions that loaded via gate like a Colt SAA. There's a picture of the centerfire version uploaded on this site. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Assassin Outfit? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I preordered this from GameStop, and should have gotten the Deadeye Assassin outfit or something like that, and yet I haven't figured out how to get it. Can anyone help? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:57, 2 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Should be an insert in the box with a pic of John with the outfit. On that slip should be a code, enter that code on the DLC page on the game. Then it will give you the tasks required to unlock it in the game. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 02:16, 2 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=307157</id>
		<title>Talk:Sucker Punch</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=307157"/>
		<updated>2010-07-29T07:15:05Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* This had better not END like BRazil :( */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;So they just released the teaser and some hi-res images for this film--thought I'd write down what I saw.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--MP7 with suppressor and red-dot sight&lt;br /&gt;
--M4/AR-15 with red dot and vertical grip&lt;br /&gt;
--UMP with suppressor and red-dot&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of shotgun (I wanna say a Mossberg 500 CC with a folding stock, but I could be dead wrong)&lt;br /&gt;
--Mauser Kar98k&lt;br /&gt;
--1911 handgun&lt;br /&gt;
--MP5k&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of flintlock pistol&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wait, so this movie is about women killing Huns with modern weapons? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No...by my understanding all this is happening in one of the girls head...shes a abused teen and uses this fake world to cope with problems and to deal with a escape from a girls special home or something like that.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==This had better not END like BRazil :(==&lt;br /&gt;
The girl has a five day window to escape from the mental institution before she is lobotomized.  This film had better not end with her getting lobotomized!  Downer endings like that suck!  The point is that she and the other girl inmates are trying to figure out how to escape, all within the backdrop of the girl's own dreams about a hero life.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ah, but I like Brazil's ending, it was a nice change of pace from usual (happier) movie endings [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Brazil's ending worked for Brazil.  This film could potentially be much more cruel, since the victim of the unjustly administered lobotomy is an abused girl.  Though Brazil was a dark look at a totalitarian society, this one could just be an exercise in cruelty.  But then I really have a problem with Lobotomies in general.  to me it's WORSE than death.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I always thought the worst thing you could do to a person you absolutely hated was an icepick lobotomy. That would be much crueler than death, not matter how slow. That being said, who still does lobotomies? Is the film set in the fifties? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The 'real world' stories is set in the 1950s, but the fantasy worlds in her head prior to her 'fate' is a mish mash of different dreamworlds.  Even though the weapons are anachronistic for her time, since they are all fantasy weapons in her head, it really doesn't bother me being that she is 'dreaming' the weapons and events.   [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And lobotomies aren't exactly rare today either, they still happen. But, just like most medical procedures, it's not like television. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:10, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:WTF are you talking about?  On WHAT do you base this comment?  Nobody has done lobotomies since the 1960s.  Modern Anti psychotic drugs have taken the place of this barbaric surgical procedure.  One, the vast majority of Lobotomies done in the world were in either America, Canada, the Scandinavian Countries or the UK.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Here's a start http://www.psychologistworld.com/biological/lobotomy.php Not to mention brain tumors. I didn't say it was used in psychological medicine anymore, but is still a medical procedure performed to remove malicious tissue from the brain. I wouldnt just talk out of my ass MPM.  [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::But if you wanna call horseshit on it, that's fine. No harm , no foul. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::No whoreshit called ;) , you were talking about lobotomies in the context of the surgical removal of brain tissue.  I was talking about a FRONTAL LOBOTOMY which was a scrambling of the frontal lobes as a 'cure' for various mental illnesses.  So there WAS No harm no foul, we were talking about TWO different things.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:44, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apparently they are still done in France of all places occasionally, at least since 2001 http://www.ccne-ethique.fr/docs/fr/avis071.pdf. I don't know if you read french though. Admittedly it has been a few years since I've been in psychology classes. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:52, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well that's because they're French. What else don't they do over there? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:30, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Scary thing is that's just what i could find documentation for. I saw some claims that they're still performed in the US; but since no credible sources jumped out at me on my casual search and any links I post via my school's library database will probably end up as dead for you guys it doesn't seem to be worth the effort to pursue. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 07:15, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==This movie is gonad suck==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I mean from actresses (if you can name em that) their hiring to the idea hell I'm all for girl power but when the hell did girl power mean actual ''girls'' I mean think about aliens and all the other movies women are in powerful roles they usually aren't little girl who act in Disney movies, sure there are examples Summer Glau of course but since she was in firefly everyone already associated her with badass&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==anachronistic==&lt;br /&gt;
the look of there imaginary world look like they took fiction, past, present, and future and mash them to gather. this kind of visual style making the idea of anachronistic pointless. we have dragons chasing a B-25 and Robots gunning down WW1 biplanes. so if thinks are out of place, they are there for the visual style. an example if a character is a detective he would be dresses like a 1930s detective so say up fount that he is a detective&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306794</id>
		<title>Talk:Sucker Punch</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306794"/>
		<updated>2010-07-28T06:52:47Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* This had better not END like BRazil :( */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;So they just released the teaser and some hi-res images for this film--thought I'd write down what I saw.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--MP7 with suppressor and red-dot sight&lt;br /&gt;
--M4/AR-15 with red dot and vertical grip&lt;br /&gt;
--UMP with suppressor and red-dot&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of shotgun (I wanna say a Mossberg 500 CC with a folding stock, but I could be dead wrong)&lt;br /&gt;
--Mauser Kar98k&lt;br /&gt;
--1911 handgun&lt;br /&gt;
--MP5k&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of flintlock pistol&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wait, so this movie is about women killing Huns with modern weapons? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No...by my understanding all this is happening in one of the girls head...shes a abused teen and uses this fake world to cope with problems and to deal with a escape from a girls special home or something like that.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==This had better not END like BRazil :(==&lt;br /&gt;
The girl has a five day window to escape from the mental institution before she is lobotomized.  This film had better not end with her getting lobotomized!  Downer endings like that suck!  The point is that she and the other girl inmates are trying to figure out how to escape, all within the backdrop of the girl's own dreams about a hero life.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ah, but I like Brazil's ending, it was a nice change of pace from usual (happier) movie endings [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Brazil's ending worked for Brazil.  This film could potentially be much more cruel, since the victim of the unjustly administered lobotomy is an abused girl.  Though Brazil was a dark look at a totalitarian society, this one could just be an exercise in cruelty.  But then I really have a problem with Lobotomies in general.  to me it's WORSE than death.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I always thought the worst thing you could do to a person you absolutely hated was an icepick lobotomy. That would be much crueler than death, not matter how slow. That being said, who still does lobotomies? Is the film set in the fifties? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The 'real world' stories is set in the 1950s, but the fantasy worlds in her head prior to her 'fate' is a mish mash of different dreamworlds.  Even though the weapons are anachronistic for her time, since they are all fantasy weapons in her head, it really doesn't bother me being that she is 'dreaming' the weapons and events.   [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And lobotomies aren't exactly rare today either, they still happen. But, just like most medical procedures, it's not like television. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:10, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:WTF are you talking about?  On WHAT do you base this comment?  Nobody has done lobotomies since the 1960s.  Modern Anti psychotic drugs have taken the place of this barbaric surgical procedure.  One, the vast majority of Lobotomies done in the world were in either America, Canada, the Scandinavian Countries or the UK.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Here's a start http://www.psychologistworld.com/biological/lobotomy.php Not to mention brain tumors. I didn't say it was used in psychological medicine anymore, but is still a medical procedure performed to remove malicious tissue from the brain. I wouldnt just talk out of my ass MPM.  [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::But if you wanna call horseshit on it, that's fine. No harm , no foul. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::No whoreshit called ;) , you were talking about lobotomies in the context of the surgical removal of brain tissue.  I was talking about a FRONTAL LOBOTOMY which was a scrambling of the frontal lobes as a 'cure' for various mental illnesses.  So there WAS No harm no foul, we were talking about TWO different things.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:44, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apparently they are still done in France of all places occasionally, at least since 2001 http://www.ccne-ethique.fr/docs/fr/avis071.pdf. I don't know if you read french though. Admittedly it has been a few years since I've been in psychology classes. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:52, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306791</id>
		<title>Talk:Sucker Punch</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306791"/>
		<updated>2010-07-28T06:39:03Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* This had better not END like BRazil :( */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;So they just released the teaser and some hi-res images for this film--thought I'd write down what I saw.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--MP7 with suppressor and red-dot sight&lt;br /&gt;
--M4/AR-15 with red dot and vertical grip&lt;br /&gt;
--UMP with suppressor and red-dot&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of shotgun (I wanna say a Mossberg 500 CC with a folding stock, but I could be dead wrong)&lt;br /&gt;
--Mauser Kar98k&lt;br /&gt;
--1911 handgun&lt;br /&gt;
--MP5k&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of flintlock pistol&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wait, so this movie is about women killing Huns with modern weapons? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No...by my understanding all this is happening in one of the girls head...shes a abused teen and uses this fake world to cope with problems and to deal with a escape from a girls special home or something like that.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==This had better not END like BRazil :(==&lt;br /&gt;
The girl has a five day window to escape from the mental institution before she is lobotomized.  This film had better not end with her getting lobotomized!  Downer endings like that suck!  The point is that she and the other girl inmates are trying to figure out how to escape, all within the backdrop of the girl's own dreams about a hero life.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ah, but I like Brazil's ending, it was a nice change of pace from usual (happier) movie endings [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Brazil's ending worked for Brazil.  This film could potentially be much more cruel, since the victim of the unjustly administered lobotomy is an abused girl.  Though Brazil was a dark look at a totalitarian society, this one could just be an exercise in cruelty.  But then I really have a problem with Lobotomies in general.  to me it's WORSE than death.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I always thought the worst thing you could do to a person you absolutely hated was an icepick lobotomy. That would be much crueler than death, not matter how slow. That being said, who still does lobotomies? Is the film set in the fifties? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The 'real world' stories is set in the 1950s, but the fantasy worlds in her head prior to her 'fate' is a mish mash of different dreamworlds.  Even though the weapons are anachronistic for her time, since they are all fantasy weapons in her head, it really doesn't bother me being that she is 'dreaming' the weapons and events.   [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And lobotomies aren't exactly rare today either, they still happen. But, just like most medical procedures, it's not like television. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:10, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:WTF are you talking about?  On WHAT do you base this comment?  Nobody has done lobotomies since the 1960s.  Modern Anti psychotic drugs have taken the place of this barbaric surgical procedure.  One, the vast majority of Lobotomies done in the world were in either America, Canada, the Scandinavian Countries or the UK.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Here's a start http://www.psychologistworld.com/biological/lobotomy.php Not to mention brain tumors. I didn't say it was used in psychological medicine anymore, but is still a medical procedure performed to remove malicious tissue from the brain. I wouldnt just talk out of my ass MPM.  [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 ::But if you wanna call horseshit on it, that's fine. No harm , no foul. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306790</id>
		<title>Talk:Sucker Punch</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306790"/>
		<updated>2010-07-28T06:36:23Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* This had better not END like BRazil :( */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;So they just released the teaser and some hi-res images for this film--thought I'd write down what I saw.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--MP7 with suppressor and red-dot sight&lt;br /&gt;
--M4/AR-15 with red dot and vertical grip&lt;br /&gt;
--UMP with suppressor and red-dot&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of shotgun (I wanna say a Mossberg 500 CC with a folding stock, but I could be dead wrong)&lt;br /&gt;
--Mauser Kar98k&lt;br /&gt;
--1911 handgun&lt;br /&gt;
--MP5k&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of flintlock pistol&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wait, so this movie is about women killing Huns with modern weapons? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No...by my understanding all this is happening in one of the girls head...shes a abused teen and uses this fake world to cope with problems and to deal with a escape from a girls special home or something like that.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==This had better not END like BRazil :(==&lt;br /&gt;
The girl has a five day window to escape from the mental institution before she is lobotomized.  This film had better not end with her getting lobotomized!  Downer endings like that suck!  The point is that she and the other girl inmates are trying to figure out how to escape, all within the backdrop of the girl's own dreams about a hero life.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ah, but I like Brazil's ending, it was a nice change of pace from usual (happier) movie endings [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Brazil's ending worked for Brazil.  This film could potentially be much more cruel, since the victim of the unjustly administered lobotomy is an abused girl.  Though Brazil was a dark look at a totalitarian society, this one could just be an exercise in cruelty.  But then I really have a problem with Lobotomies in general.  to me it's WORSE than death.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I always thought the worst thing you could do to a person you absolutely hated was an icepick lobotomy. That would be much crueler than death, not matter how slow. That being said, who still does lobotomies? Is the film set in the fifties? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The 'real world' stories is set in the 1950s, but the fantasy worlds in her head prior to her 'fate' is a mish mash of different dreamworlds.  Even though the weapons are anachronistic for her time, since they are all fantasy weapons in her head, it really doesn't bother me being that she is 'dreaming' the weapons and events.   [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And lobotomies aren't exactly rare today either, they still happen. But, just like most medical procedures, it's not like television. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:10, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:WTF are you talking about?  On WHAT do you base this comment?  Nobody has done lobotomies since the 1960s.  Modern Anti psychotic drugs have taken the place of this barbaric surgical procedure.  One, the vast majority of Lobotomies done in the world were in either America, Canada, the Scandinavian Countries or the UK.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Here's a start http://www.psychologistworld.com/biological/lobotomy.php Not to mention brain tumors. I didn't say it was used in psychological medicine anymore, but is still a medical procedure performed to remove malicious tissue from the brain. I wouldnt just talk out of my ass MPM.  [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306781</id>
		<title>Talk:Sucker Punch</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306781"/>
		<updated>2010-07-28T06:11:48Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* This had better not END like BRazil :( */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;So they just released the teaser and some hi-res images for this film--thought I'd write down what I saw.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--MP7 with suppressor and red-dot sight&lt;br /&gt;
--M4/AR-15 with red dot and vertical grip&lt;br /&gt;
--UMP with suppressor and red-dot&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of shotgun (I wanna say a Mossberg 500 CC with a folding stock, but I could be dead wrong)&lt;br /&gt;
--Mauser Kar98k&lt;br /&gt;
--1911 handgun&lt;br /&gt;
--MP5k&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of flintlock pistol&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wait, so this movie is about women killing Huns with modern weapons? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No...by my understanding all this is happening in one of the girls head...shes a abused teen and uses this fake world to cope with problems and to deal with a escape from a girls special home or something like that.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==This had better not END like BRazil :(==&lt;br /&gt;
The girl has a five day window to escape from the mental institution before she is lobotomized.  This film had better not end with her getting lobotomized!  Downer endings like that suck!  The point is that she and the other girl inmates are trying to figure out how to escape, all within the backdrop of the girl's own dreams about a hero life.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ah, but I like Brazil's ending, it was a nice change of pace from usual (happier) movie endings [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Brazil's ending worked for Brazil.  This film could potentially be much more cruel, since the victim of the unjustly administered lobotomy is an abused girl.  Though Brazil was a dark look at a totalitarian society, this one could just be an exercise in cruelty.  But then I really have a problem with Lobotomies in general.  to me it's WORSE than death.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I always thought the worst thing you could do to a person you absolutely hated was an icepick lobotomy. That would be much crueler than death, not matter how slow. That being said, who still does lobotomies? Is the film set in the fifties? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The 'real world' stories is set in the 1950s, but the fantasy worlds in her head prior to her 'fate' is a mish mash of different dreamworlds.  Even though the weapons are anachronistic for her time, since they are all fantasy weapons in her head, it really doesn't bother me being that she is 'dreaming' the weapons and events.   [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And lobotomies aren't exactly rare today either, they still happen. But, just like most medical procedures, it's not like television. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:10, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306778</id>
		<title>Talk:Sucker Punch</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Sucker_Punch&amp;diff=306778"/>
		<updated>2010-07-28T06:10:22Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* This had better not END like BRazil :( */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;So they just released the teaser and some hi-res images for this film--thought I'd write down what I saw.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--MP7 with suppressor and red-dot sight&lt;br /&gt;
--M4/AR-15 with red dot and vertical grip&lt;br /&gt;
--UMP with suppressor and red-dot&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of shotgun (I wanna say a Mossberg 500 CC with a folding stock, but I could be dead wrong)&lt;br /&gt;
--Mauser Kar98k&lt;br /&gt;
--1911 handgun&lt;br /&gt;
--MP5k&lt;br /&gt;
--Some kind of flintlock pistol&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wait, so this movie is about women killing Huns with modern weapons? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No...by my understanding all this is happening in one of the girls head...shes a abused teen and uses this fake world to cope with problems and to deal with a escape from a girls special home or something like that.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==This had better not END like BRazil :(==&lt;br /&gt;
The girl has a five day window to escape from the mental institution before she is lobotomized.  This film had better not end with her getting lobotomized!  Downer endings like that suck!  The point is that she and the other girl inmates are trying to figure out how to escape, all within the backdrop of the girl's own dreams about a hero life.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ah, but I like Brazil's ending, it was a nice change of pace from usual (happier) movie endings [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Brazil's ending worked for Brazil.  This film could potentially be much more cruel, since the victim of the unjustly administered lobotomy is an abused girl.  Though Brazil was a dark look at a totalitarian society, this one could just be an exercise in cruelty.  But then I really have a problem with Lobotomies in general.  to me it's WORSE than death.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I always thought the worst thing you could do to a person you absolutely hated was an icepick lobotomy. That would be much crueler than death, not matter how slow. That being said, who still does lobotomies? Is the film set in the fifties? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The 'real world' stories is set in the 1950s, but the fantasy worlds in her head prior to her 'fate' is a mish mash of different dreamworlds.  Even though the weapons are anachronistic for her time, since they are all fantasy weapons in her head, it really doesn't bother me being that she is 'dreaming' the weapons and events.   [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And lobotomies aren't exactly rare today either, they still happen. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 06:10, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:In_the_Line_of_Duty:_The_F.B.I._Murders&amp;diff=292559</id>
		<title>Talk:In the Line of Duty: The F.B.I. Murders</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:In_the_Line_of_Duty:_The_F.B.I._Murders&amp;diff=292559"/>
		<updated>2010-06-26T21:03:34Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Nice Work */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Nice Work==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nice work, Predator20. Your captures are far better than the ones I had. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks, I was going to send you a message about replacing your caps. You sound okay with it, so that's good. I'm going to read up more on the actual shootout and add as much info I can about it. From what I read and saw from the film, it was close. -[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::My Criminal Justice professor has a published copy of the complete evidence package with all the forensics and agent statements. It's an interesting read to say the least. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:The_A-Team_(2010)&amp;diff=289672</id>
		<title>Talk:The A-Team (2010)</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:The_A-Team_(2010)&amp;diff=289672"/>
		<updated>2010-06-20T15:50:15Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Not a lot of new guns */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I just watched the trailer. Is that tank an XM8 Buford? Wow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A-Team -- B-movie?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''-Implying B-movie is a bad thing.''--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 15:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No shit. I mean come on, the trailer shows one of the team shooting down an F-18 with a mounted machine gun on a tank, WHILE THE TANK IS FALLING OUT OF THE GODDAMNED SKY!!! Even kicking your transmission of disbelief into high gear won't help that.[[User:StrikerDelta|StrikerDelta]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Consider the source material. You've got four special forces guys who expend thousands of rounds of ammo and yet manage to not even wound, much less kill, anyone in five years, all while somehow evading arrest while riding around in a VERY distinctive vehicle driven by an even more distinctive driver. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 05:13, 17 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Well dude if you pay attention to the shows audience, it was a helluva a lot of kids on a friday night, they didn't want it to be to violent, but you have to give them this, of there was a tire to be shot it was shot.&lt;br /&gt;
I think the original was more believable cause it was back in the day no satellites and databases no APB's so its probably hard to catch them if they go all around, nowadays the show wouldn't work just to unrealistic. &lt;br /&gt;
it looked like a drone not a fighter&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah its a drone still stupid &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
it aspost to be an over the top action movies&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's an MQ-1 Predator which is a UAV. Also the film is Fictitious. Made for peoples enjoyment to get away from the real world by watching something impossible done on film. what's the problem with that.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
also lately in films and tv show they have been showing UAV to by mounted with machine guns when they can only by fitted with missiles and bombs. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M4A1 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Can anyone post some links or pictures of these rifles used in the Movie?&lt;br /&gt;
I am really loving those Olive Foregrips and Stock.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
UPDATE: Could the M4A1 actually be this?&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M6A1.jpg|thumb|right|500px|LWRC M6A1, 5.56x45mm NATO]]&lt;br /&gt;
:no, this is too expensive. Also note their rifles have step-down on the barrels for nubtube fixation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Armorers tend to mostly use what they have in inventory already.  They're not going to go out and buy all-new ARs (since all such rifles are so similar).  It's more likely that these are just regular M4A1s that have been fitted with the olive furniture. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:33, 7 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::And the M203 is ''not'' a &amp;quot;noob tube&amp;quot;... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Right, someone's been playing too much MW2 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The gun is in fact the LWRC M6A1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
About these M4s. I actually saw a picture of the A-Team running away from an explosion, in IMDB, okay and I saw Hannibal's M4 had an EOTech sight on it. And Face's M4 must have been the only one with the Red Dot Sight on it. I didn't want to post the actual picture, due to me fearing copyright, but is it alright if I provide just the link to that picture? [[User:Shoockeye7665|Shoockeye7665]] 12:03, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hannibal's sidearm ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No doubt about it: Hannibal's 1911 is in fact a Para-ord. The slide serrations spell it all out on this one. 6 in back - offset under sights - with 3 in front. Looks like a P14 with front cocking serrations milled, or more likely an S14 with night sights. You even see the finish in the movie, and it almost looks like they've just sprayed over the stainless. Regardless, it's a Para. If not one specific, it could just be a mix-master hi-cap. --[[User:Gwhysow|Gwhysow]] 23:11, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently saw a production still in a magazine of Hannibal and he had a shoulder holster on with what appeared to carry a 1911 variant possibly a Kimber Custom II.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any chance at someone identifing the brand/type of shoulder holster that Hannibal uses? [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just saw the movie last night; Hannibal's 1911 is most certainly not a Kimber of any sort. Slide serrations are way off, so who knows. Almost looked like a custom slide from Caspian, but still wouldn't bet on it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the leather shoulder rig, it looked a lot like a DeSantis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To me the 1911 looks like a Para p-14 or some sort of variant, take a look at one of the promo pics where you can see it in the shoulder holster.  Looks like a double-stack grip to me, but maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I just saw this movie, and I agree that it's not a Kimber Warrior (lacks the Picatinny rail).  My guess is Colt XSE.  It's also likely that it was a custom 1911 assembled by the movie's armorers; the slide could be Colt, frame could be something else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:49, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No it's defiantly a Kimber possibly a Custom some don't have rails. Confirmed by the films armorer the same guy who confirmed Face's Glock as a 17 standard finish.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I need to see that evidence before you change it back (link please).  And if it's not a Warrior, then don't put down that it is.  It's better to say &amp;quot;Unknown 1911&amp;quot; if we don't know the exact model. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 11:03, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: If I can find it I will post the link but I watched as a special on Sleuth or FX I forget.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Not a lot of new guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am a bit disappointed that they didn't have a wide variety of weapons used int his movie [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I was a little more disappointed by the dialogue, the way in which the action scenes were directed, and the excessive cheese throughout.  And I tend to think that kind of stuff matters a little more than the variety of weapons. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:56, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I saw a guy with an Uzi at the bank, and I'm sure the Sig 552 isn't. It has a ful rail on top.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 18:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I don't think it was a 556; the receiver didn't look like it (mostly around the magazine well).  Also, they make continuous rails for the 552.  I think it's more likely that they just took a 552, removed the stock, and gave it the upper rail, though I could be wrong.  We'll see when the Blu Ray becomes available. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:51, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I thought it was a 552 the first time. After viewing again I'm pretty sure it was the 556 pistol, it seemed to be using STANAG magazines. And for posterity, I enjoyed the stupid dialog and oozing cheese. C'mon its the A Team its not gonna be oscar worthy, its gonna be guns, explosions, stupidity and deus ex machina. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 15:50, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Iron_Man_2&amp;diff=286147</id>
		<title>Talk:Iron Man 2</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Iron_Man_2&amp;diff=286147"/>
		<updated>2010-06-12T05:04:52Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* War Machine's guns */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Besides the mingun ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are you sure those other guns mounted on Warmachine are an F2000 and an M4 with a MASS? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree, the forearm gun looks remininsant of a UMP --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 20:06, 13 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the footage screened at last year's comic con, there's a scene where Justin Hammer specially mentions the weapons he can put into War Machine, which is where the info comes from.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:49, 14 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guessing that instead of attaching the guns on to the arms of war machine, but used the guts of the guns in war machine arm guns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just watched it last night. Nick Fury is packing a glock (probably a 17 as it was only seen in a shoulder holster. Black Widow carries twin USP's (possibly compacts) but as none of these shots are in the trailers im guessing there will be no images to stick up till the dvd release, just thought you'd all like to be kept in the loop. Oh and The MASS is mounted on a rip and stock not an actual M4 Justin hammer aso incorrectly describes it as pump action while working the bolt action! - Captain Snikt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Monaco police can be seen using Heckler and Koch MP5s when they arrest Ivan Vanko after getting subdued by Iron Man&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm a little confused by the &amp;quot;Monaco police&amp;quot; since they got CRS printed on their vest, which is a French National Police unit.  Later in prison, the guards all have French flags on their patch too.  It seem odd they they would transfer their prisoners to France.--[[Special:Contributions/207.6.234.114|207.6.234.114]] 23:05, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Monaco is a small city-state surrounded on three sides by France. It's a play-ground and tax haven for rich Europeans. It's defense is provided for by the French (which also augments the small Monacan police force during large events, like the Grand Prix). - Paladin127&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think they use Barret barrels or modified M2's as the drone shoulder guns&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually, I think they were M242's. - Paladin127&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think this too but i was not sure so i did not post it on the page. [[User:AceV|AceV]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was wrong about black widow, she commandeers a USP from one of hammers goon's which she holds in her right hand, on her left leg she has a different nickle/chrome/inox pistol. Possibly a baby eagle, or a compact baby eagle (if such a thing exists. Who ever updated the page is wrong about the USP she definatly takes it from a guard and her side arm is shown quite clearly on this image http://www.eclecticelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/iron-man-2-black-widow-whiplash-entertainment-weekly-july-24-2009.jpg i think its eagle based but its deffo not a USP - Captain Snikt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
the gun seems quite strange maybe its pohotoshoped in, sorta like the suit which seems either photoshoped or pre cgi suit worn on set, the magwell seems strange and the magazine too small it looks like a desert eagle but its to short and the mag is different tho its definitely not a Jericho since they don't look that much alike--[[Special:Contributions/188.112.128.8|188.112.128.8]] 17:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It looks pretty much like a Walther PPk/s in a serpa holster to me, note the stainless circle on the bootom of the grip right above the magazine butt pad- Spades of Columbia&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah it could be as she is Russian it could be as a stand in for makarov--[[Special:Contributions/188.112.128.8|188.112.128.8]] 12:18, 7 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== War Machine's guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I question the penetration power of any of the guns that were put on War Machine aside from the minigun. He had a 9mm, and a 5.56mm weapon mounted with nothing that looks like a reloading system. I mean, I would think they'd develop proprietary weapons and ammo for the suit instead of guns and ammo that can't even dent a tank and yet we see these weapons making great damage against the drones at the end of the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:23, 8 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
for al we know he could have had specialty rounds in the comics he had depleted uranium rounds besides the minigun is 5.56 too, what do you mean by reloading system, we don't really see it but it could be there the gauntlets are huge. --[[User:Drakus|drakus]] 13:50, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gotta agree, this is the Iron Man we're talking about. If all it took was a burst of 5.55 to get through the suit, Iron Man 1 would have ended on a tragic note about 20 minutes in. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 16:18, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Umm, the minigun is 7.62. It's a beast of a gun, so I can understand the penetration power of that thing. And oh right, specialty rounds of depleted uranium for 9mm, and 5.56. Yeah, very likely. They could have kept all the special effects of the guns firing, but not tell us what guns they simply mounted onto the thing. In the comics, War machine had the minigun on its shoulder, but its other guns were guns made for it. They didn't take existing gun and just glued them on it. That's just stupid. It's like you putting guns on a spacesuit, it doesn't really work unless those guns are specially designed to be attached to the suit. When War Machine was finished in the movie, we don't see any of the guns exposed at all except the minigun, so there's no point in the scene before that told us what guns are going to be in it. They could have just made a scene of Justin Hammer asking Rhode what kind of ammo does he want in his suit? 9mm, 5.56, 7.62, grenades or missiles? and have Rhode say &amp;quot;all of them&amp;quot;. And I go back to the fact that if War Machine had existing guns simply mounted on it, then how does it reload? We see it shooting a lot with the guns attached to its arm, but it must have run out of ammo for those guns by now if they are magazine fed. We also don't see him using the shotgun or grenade launchers that are supposed to be mounted on it. All I'm saying is that the movie would have made more sense if they just didn't tell us that War Machine had existing guns mounted on it but instead lead us to believe all its guns were just made for it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh common its a comic book movie don't read to much into, its almost like complaining that iron man shouldn't have repulsor weapons since they don't exist and not complain about the fact that the suit flies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well we don't have Iron Man's repulsor weapons. That's not the point here and you don't seem to get it. And sign your name. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Best guess I can wager as to War Machine's weaponry is that underneath all of that extra armor, there's some kind of ammo feeding system that funnels or channels each weapon's needed ammunition to the proper gun.  The suit, after being worked on by the Air Force, is considerably bulkier than Stark's suits.  As for the ammo itself, given everything else we know about the universe, it's not a major stretch to assume that even the 9mm rounds used were beefed up considerably. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 05:36, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can stretch my imagination that they invented gun barrels, put them on the arms and bullets to feed into the gun barrels and fire automatically. And at the end of the day decided to put a minigun on the shoulder for shits and giggles. But seriously, having existing weapons simply mounted on the arms like that? This is a &amp;quot;war machine&amp;quot; not a James Bond car where Xander Cage can say &amp;quot;I want all that in here.&amp;quot; It just doesn't make any sense and serves no purpose from a technical standpoint. Since we can suspend our imagination on the fact that it can fly and super power, but when you bring real world guns and put them in a fictional position...it's like us always pointing out a character firing off 10 more rounds than a gun can hold. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anybody else catch the Kimel AP-9 sitting on the table next to the Claridge when Hammer sets down the shotgun?&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes it was one of those 'stainless' versions of the AP9.  From what I remember, the Claridge had the finned barrel extension and an extended magazine.  Funny that Hammer would bring up TWO guns whose companies went under in the 1990s and thus are no longer made....Doh! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 16:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I thought that was hilarious and helped reinforce that he knows nothing about weapons and picked them based on looks.[[User:Mercer|Mercer]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What were the ingredients for the ex-wife again?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Black Widow==&lt;br /&gt;
Saw the movie today. It looked like Black Widow was using a Sig Sauer P230 and a P250.[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Nope, it was definitely the PPK and a USP Compact--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 23:32, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you take a look at the Hot Toys 1/6th scale figure http://www.cooltoyreview.com/photo.asp?image=http://www.cooltoyreview.com/2010/HT-Black-Widow-14.jpg&amp;amp;text= you can see she has a PPk so i think that confirms her sidearm, however the other gun included appears to be a SIG sauer and not a USP (which it clearly was a USP in the film) so take from this what you will - Captain Snikt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:While it's true she has a PPK in the movie, a Hot Toys action figure is by no means any kind of credible confirmation of what the character used in a movie, as they often put the wrong weapons with the figure. Take the company's renditions of Dutch and Billy from ''Predator'' as a clear example of this [http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_060309b.htm]. Dutch has an M16A4 and Billy has a fixed stock M4, whereas in the movie both had M16A1s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even though...it doesn't change the fact that she has and uses a Walther PPK/S [[Spades of Columbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I never said she didn't I only said the uSP wasn't her sidearm, and that she picked it up. Tho to be technical she never actually uses it, only brandishes it - captain snikt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
hi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:right this is only a thought no-one flip at me &lt;br /&gt;
:the gun is most likely a walther anyway&lt;br /&gt;
:she is russian what if it could be a modified makarov PM?&lt;br /&gt;
:just a suggestion&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
to help people have a better look the doll of black widow has the pistols at this link&lt;br /&gt;
http://img40.imageshack.us/i/20100513d4bc4e3be0ad225.jpg/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Scarlett Johansson==&lt;br /&gt;
Ahhhh, despite her kicking guys' asses, I found it strangely alluring to imagine Scarlett Johanssons' thighs wrapped around my head...............&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=274506</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Dead Redemption</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=274506"/>
		<updated>2010-05-18T19:20:19Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Colt M1911 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Holy patron saint of awesome there's a fucking C96 in the game. I dont care about historical innacuracies, Im glad they finally put this gun in another game. Plus I've been wanting to see it in another western setting since Joe Kidd. Plus I can get all...Lawrence of arabia-y...anyone agree?--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its not inaccurate, the game takes place in 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And now I know. AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well played sir.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Il Grande Silenzio (aka The Great Silence) also features C96 used by the main character in deadly effect. Brilliant movie, you should see it.--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 12:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will do. Now, if somebody would just make a game where I could use a webley other than Bioshock/Darksector. And a mauser. AT THE SAME TIME WOAH!!!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 18:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==This page's format==&lt;br /&gt;
Nice work so far.  I look forward to seeing the page's creators fix the minor page layout errors.  i.e. don't put a LINK to the gun page.  Write an original paragraph about who uses the gun and how it appears in the game and hyperlink the gun NAME to the gun page.  Remember to check the rules &amp;amp; standards, the titles in the sections are never hyperlinked, only the name of the gun in the written section describing the usage in the game.  Also every image should have THUMB in the wiki line with a size designator and the IMFDB page standard descriptors in the gun image and the screenshot.  Any insightful summaries about the game and it's back story would also be nice.  good job.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't planning on adding details about each weapon until after the game is released, and more info is available, also, this is my first try at editing a wiki. (Wematanye)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How come there's no 1887 shotguns. They'd make more sense than an Auto-5 or a pump-action. Browing designed the lever-action specifically for frontiersmen.&lt;br /&gt;
(Hughjefender)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mannlicher M95 or Carcano 38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rifle which is currently called the &amp;quot;Mannlicher 1895&amp;quot; seems to be rather a Carcano 38 which can be seen at the front barrel band. Lookt it up on surplusrifle or google. The Austrian Mannlicher 95 has a different band. Furthermore, but I am not 100% sure about this, the Austrians did not shorten the M95s before WWI. So no matter which rifle it is it is anachronistic in all cases, but it really looks like a Carcano 38.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi it's me again. I just saw that the rifle was positively identified as a Carcano by a recently added screenshot, showing the characteristic magazine which distinguishes the Italian Mannlicher Carcano from the Austrian Steyr Mannlicher M95. Thus the Mannlicher 95 could be removed from the &amp;quot;Needs positive Identification&amp;quot; section.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]] 19 April 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Colt M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
:I was on the Red Dead Redemption wiki the other day and the good ole 1911 was listed as a usable weapon-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 05:20, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well the game is set in 1911 (From what I've been told) so could it possible? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 09:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The game is actually set in 1908 from what I've heard. Chris_Hun7er 17:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The red dead wiki has a number of weapons that are unconfirmed. They are either just hopeful or mistaken, confusing the Bordchart for a Luger and the Colt 1903/1908 for a 1911&lt;br /&gt;
 I have also heard it being set in 1911 [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where did you hear that? all official statements I have heard say 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I couldn't specifically tell you, but I believe it was from a few gaming sites (Games Radar, IGN, Game Informer etc.) [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:28, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had heard the game took place in 1908, which wouldn't make the 1911 appropriate...however who's to say all of the games events take place in the year 1908...esspecially since they talk about the mexican revolution being apart of the game which happened in 1911&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well it would make the 1911 very inappropriate actually. And the game doesn't actually contain the revolution proper, but rather the events leading up to the revolution. That being said I highly doubt the 1911 would be in the same game when the 1903/1908 is already confirmed. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 04:36, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'se reading the Playstation Store description of the game and it says that the game takes place in 1911.--[[Special:Contributions/74.177.189.181|74.177.189.181]] 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe it goes from 1908 to 1911? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well we'll all find out tomorrow children. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 04:30, 18 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's official, no 1911, no luger, no colt walker, no colt navy, no springfield 1903, no winchester 1887, or anything else people have claimed to see in the game or heard from someone. All small arms have already been identified. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 19:20, 18 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Merged Carcano Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a heads up, I moved the image in &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle&amp;quot; and deleted the &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; section. Chris_Hun7er 5:50, 10 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Krag/body ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the actual rifle, but does the second Krag-Jorgensen screen shot show a naked person hanging from the ceiling?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It certainly does. And according to some early reviews there is much worse to be found in the game. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 23:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do you mean in terms of brutality or of nudity?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both from the sound of it[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 00:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hurrah for gratuitous violence!-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 02:17, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Colt New Service/Colt New Army ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
has it been positively identified yet?&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=274290</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Dead Redemption</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=274290"/>
		<updated>2010-05-18T04:30:01Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Colt M1911 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Holy patron saint of awesome there's a fucking C96 in the game. I dont care about historical innacuracies, Im glad they finally put this gun in another game. Plus I've been wanting to see it in another western setting since Joe Kidd. Plus I can get all...Lawrence of arabia-y...anyone agree?--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its not inaccurate, the game takes place in 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And now I know. AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well played sir.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Il Grande Silenzio (aka The Great Silence) also features C96 used by the main character in deadly effect. Brilliant movie, you should see it.--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 12:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will do. Now, if somebody would just make a game where I could use a webley other than Bioshock/Darksector. And a mauser. AT THE SAME TIME WOAH!!!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 18:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==This page's format==&lt;br /&gt;
Nice work so far.  I look forward to seeing the page's creators fix the minor page layout errors.  i.e. don't put a LINK to the gun page.  Write an original paragraph about who uses the gun and how it appears in the game and hyperlink the gun NAME to the gun page.  Remember to check the rules &amp;amp; standards, the titles in the sections are never hyperlinked, only the name of the gun in the written section describing the usage in the game.  Also every image should have THUMB in the wiki line with a size designator and the IMFDB page standard descriptors in the gun image and the screenshot.  Any insightful summaries about the game and it's back story would also be nice.  good job.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't planning on adding details about each weapon until after the game is released, and more info is available, also, this is my first try at editing a wiki. (Wematanye)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How come there's no 1887 shotguns. They'd make more sense than an Auto-5 or a pump-action. Browing designed the lever-action specifically for frontiersmen.&lt;br /&gt;
(Hughjefender)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mannlicher M95 or Carcano 38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rifle which is currently called the &amp;quot;Mannlicher 1895&amp;quot; seems to be rather a Carcano 38 which can be seen at the front barrel band. Lookt it up on surplusrifle or google. The Austrian Mannlicher 95 has a different band. Furthermore, but I am not 100% sure about this, the Austrians did not shorten the M95s before WWI. So no matter which rifle it is it is anachronistic in all cases, but it really looks like a Carcano 38.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi it's me again. I just saw that the rifle was positively identified as a Carcano by a recently added screenshot, showing the characteristic magazine which distinguishes the Italian Mannlicher Carcano from the Austrian Steyr Mannlicher M95. Thus the Mannlicher 95 could be removed from the &amp;quot;Needs positive Identification&amp;quot; section.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]] 19 April 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Colt M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
:I was on the Red Dead Redemption wiki the other day and the good ole 1911 was listed as a usable weapon-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 05:20, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well the game is set in 1911 (From what I've been told) so could it possible? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 09:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The game is actually set in 1908 from what I've heard. Chris_Hun7er 17:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The red dead wiki has a number of weapons that are unconfirmed. They are either just hopeful or mistaken, confusing the Bordchart for a Luger and the Colt 1903/1908 for a 1911&lt;br /&gt;
 I have also heard it being set in 1911 [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where did you hear that? all official statements I have heard say 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I couldn't specifically tell you, but I believe it was from a few gaming sites (Games Radar, IGN, Game Informer etc.) [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:28, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had heard the game took place in 1908, which wouldn't make the 1911 appropriate...however who's to say all of the games events take place in the year 1908...esspecially since they talk about the mexican revolution being apart of the game which happened in 1911&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well it would make the 1911 very inappropriate actually. And the game doesn't actually contain the revolution proper, but rather the events leading up to the revolution. That being said I highly doubt the 1911 would be in the same game when the 1903/1908 is already confirmed. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 04:36, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'se reading the Playstation Store description of the game and it says that the game takes place in 1911.--[[Special:Contributions/74.177.189.181|74.177.189.181]] 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe it goes from 1908 to 1911? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well we'll all find out tomorrow children. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 04:30, 18 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Merged Carcano Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a heads up, I moved the image in &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle&amp;quot; and deleted the &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; section. Chris_Hun7er 5:50, 10 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Krag/body ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the actual rifle, but does the second Krag-Jorgensen screen shot show a naked person hanging from the ceiling?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It certainly does. And according to some early reviews there is much worse to be found in the game. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 23:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do you mean in terms of brutality or of nudity?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both from the sound of it[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 00:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hurrah for gratuitous violence!-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 02:17, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Colt New Service/Colt New Army ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
has it been positively identified yet?&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=The_Godfather&amp;diff=273873</id>
		<title>The Godfather</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=The_Godfather&amp;diff=273873"/>
		<updated>2010-05-17T04:21:38Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10 */ the character was an ex cop&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Godfather.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''The Godfather'' (1972)]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''The following weapons were used in ''The Godfather'':'''&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&amp;lt;br clear=&amp;quot;all&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Smith &amp;amp; Wesson .357 Magnum ==&lt;br /&gt;
Luca Brasi ([[Lenny Montana]]) checks a [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 27 / 28|Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 27 Snub Nose]] before going to his meeting with Sollozzo and the Tattaglias. The frame appears to be that of the larger S&amp;amp;W N Frame. Also since this point in the story takes place in December 1945 it would more than likely be a pre-war S&amp;amp;W Registered Magnum. Or possibly a S&amp;amp;W .357 Magnum since a few were made between the ending of the Registered Magnum model and the start of WWII. During WWII, S&amp;amp;W only produced the M&amp;amp;P/Victory model. S&amp;amp;W did not number its models until the middle of the 1950s.&lt;br /&gt;
It can be confirmed that it is a Pre-war Smith &amp;amp; Wesson, possibly a Registered Magnum. All pre-Model 27 Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 357 Magnums had front sights that did not run flush with the end of the barrel. The one pictured doesn't run flush with the barrel, therefore it's a Pre-war Magnum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:S&amp;amp;WRev.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 27 Snub nosed revolver with 3.5&amp;quot; barrel - .357 magnum.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-swmag.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Luca Brasi looks in the cylinder of his Smith &amp;amp; Wesson.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Beretta M1934 ==&lt;br /&gt;
One of the hitmen who shoots at Don Vito Corleone ([[Marlon Brando]]) carries a [[Beretta M1934]].&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BerettaModel1935.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Beretta Model 1935, the .32 ACP version of the Model 1934.  Other than caliber, the pistols are identical.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-beretta-coltds.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The hitmen carry a Beretta and a Detective Special.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Colt Detective Special ==&lt;br /&gt;
This .38 snubnose [[Colt Detective Special]] makes several appearances throughout the movie, as the revolver truly was popular amongst Mafioso of the time due to it's compact size, reliability and accuracy despite only having a 2&amp;quot; barrel. One of the hitmen who shoots at Don Vito Corleone carries a Detective Special.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Colt Detective Special.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Colt Detective Special - .38 Special]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-beretta-coltds.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The hitmen carry a Beretta and a Detective Special.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 36 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Fredo Corleone ([[John Cazale]]) draws and immediately drops a nickel [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 36]] after his father Vito is shot on the street. Sonny Corleone ([[James Caan]]) is briefly shown checking one and sticking it into his waistband when he sees Clemenza at the door.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:S&amp;amp;W 36.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith and Wesson Model 36 - .38 special]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw36.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Fredo's Smith &amp;amp; Wesson dangles from his hand.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw36b.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sonny answers the door with his revolver.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw36c.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sonny's snubnose sticks out of his waistband.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10 Snubnose ==&lt;br /&gt;
Peter Clemenza ([[Richard S. Castellano]]) gives Michael Corleone ([[Al Pacino]]) a [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10|Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10 Snubnose]] to kill Virgil &amp;quot;the Turk&amp;quot; Sollozzo ([[Al Lettieri]]) and Capt. McClusky ([[Sterling Hayden]]).&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:S&amp;amp;WModel10Snub.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10 Revolver Snub Nose - .38 Special.  Same Frame, but with smaller grips and 2 inch barrel.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw10snub.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clemenza hands the snubnose to Michael.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw10snub2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Michael prepares to fire the revolver.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw10snub3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clemenza shows the revolver to Michael.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw10snub4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Michael shoots McClusky after killing Sollozzo.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Double Barreled Shotgun (unknown) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Michael's Sicilian bodyguards, Fabrizio and Calo, carry [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupara Lupara] [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]]s with exposed hammers. Clemenza uses a hammerless model when assassinating Stracci in an elevator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'll bet that the shotguns the bodyguards used are of Italian manufacture&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-shotguns.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Michael's bodyguards carry shotguns.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-shotguns2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Fabrizio with his shotgun.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-shotguns3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Calo with his shotgun.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clemenza shoots Stracci.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Thompson M1928 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Barzini's hitmen use [[Thompson Submachine Gun|Thompson M1928]]s with drum magazines when gunning down Sonny Corleone ([[James Caan]]) at the toll booth.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M1928.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M1928 &amp;quot;Tommy Gun&amp;quot; .45 ACP with 50-round drum magazine]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-thompson1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Three of Sonny's assassins with Thompsons.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-thompson2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the assassins emptying his Thompson from the toll booth.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-thompson3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the hitmen kicks Sonny's head after killing him.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bolt-Action Rifles (unknown) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Don Corleone's bodyguards at the house all carry rifles while patrolling the grounds.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-rifles.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Guards at the Corleone compound watch Michael exit the car.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Al Neri ([[Richard Bright]]) carries and uses a [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10]] revolver when dressed in his old police uniform for the hit on Don Emilio Barzini ([[Richard Conte]]).&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:S&amp;amp;W Model M&amp;amp;P.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model M&amp;amp;P Revolver - .38 Special]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw10a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Al Neri pulls out his revolver.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw10b.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Al Neri sets the Model 10 on his bed.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-sw10c.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Al Neri takes aim and fires at Barzini.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Madsen M50 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Rocco Lampone ([[Tom Rosqui]]) and another Corleone hitman use Danish 9 mm [[Madsen M50]] submachine guns to murder Don Philip Tattaglia ([[Victor Rendina]]) and a woman he was sleeping with.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:DanishMadsenm50.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Madsen M50 - 9x19mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-m50a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Loading up the M50.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-m50b.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The hitmen burst in on Tattaglia with M50s.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M1911A1 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Willi Cicci ([[Joe Spinell]]) uses a [[M1911 pistol series|M1911A1]] to murder Don Otilleo Cuneo ([[Rudy Bond]]) in a revolving door.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gf-1911.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cuneo reacts to the .45 pointed at him.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Movie]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Crime]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Francis Ford Coppola]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=273151</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Dead Redemption</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=273151"/>
		<updated>2010-05-15T04:39:07Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Colt M1911 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Holy patron saint of awesome there's a fucking C96 in the game. I dont care about historical innacuracies, Im glad they finally put this gun in another game. Plus I've been wanting to see it in another western setting since Joe Kidd. Plus I can get all...Lawrence of arabia-y...anyone agree?--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its not inaccurate, the game takes place in 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And now I know. AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well played sir.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Il Grande Silenzio (aka The Great Silence) also features C96 used by the main character in deadly effect. Brilliant movie, you should see it.--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 12:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will do. Now, if somebody would just make a game where I could use a webley other than Bioshock/Darksector. And a mauser. AT THE SAME TIME WOAH!!!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 18:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==This page's format==&lt;br /&gt;
Nice work so far.  I look forward to seeing the page's creators fix the minor page layout errors.  i.e. don't put a LINK to the gun page.  Write an original paragraph about who uses the gun and how it appears in the game and hyperlink the gun NAME to the gun page.  Remember to check the rules &amp;amp; standards, the titles in the sections are never hyperlinked, only the name of the gun in the written section describing the usage in the game.  Also every image should have THUMB in the wiki line with a size designator and the IMFDB page standard descriptors in the gun image and the screenshot.  Any insightful summaries about the game and it's back story would also be nice.  good job.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't planning on adding details about each weapon until after the game is released, and more info is available, also, this is my first try at editing a wiki. (Wematanye)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How come there's no 1887 shotguns. They'd make more sense than an Auto-5 or a pump-action. Browing designed the lever-action specifically for frontiersmen.&lt;br /&gt;
(Hughjefender)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mannlicher M95 or Carcano 38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rifle which is currently called the &amp;quot;Mannlicher 1895&amp;quot; seems to be rather a Carcano 38 which can be seen at the front barrel band. Lookt it up on surplusrifle or google. The Austrian Mannlicher 95 has a different band. Furthermore, but I am not 100% sure about this, the Austrians did not shorten the M95s before WWI. So no matter which rifle it is it is anachronistic in all cases, but it really looks like a Carcano 38.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi it's me again. I just saw that the rifle was positively identified as a Carcano by a recently added screenshot, showing the characteristic magazine which distinguishes the Italian Mannlicher Carcano from the Austrian Steyr Mannlicher M95. Thus the Mannlicher 95 could be removed from the &amp;quot;Needs positive Identification&amp;quot; section.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]] 19 April 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Colt M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
:I was on the Red Dead Redemption wiki the other day and the good ole 1911 was listed as a usable weapon-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 05:20, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well the game is set in 1911 (From what I've been told) so could it possible? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 09:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The game is actually set in 1908 from what I've heard. Chris_Hun7er 17:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The red dead wiki has a number of weapons that are unconfirmed. They are either just hopeful or mistaken, confusing the Bordchart for a Luger and the Colt 1903/1908 for a 1911&lt;br /&gt;
 I have also heard it being set in 1911 [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where did you hear that? all official statements I have heard say 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I couldn't specifically tell you, but I believe it was from a few gaming sites (Games Radar, IGN, Game Informer etc.) [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:28, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had heard the game took place in 1908, which wouldn't make the 1911 appropriate...however who's to say all of the games events take place in the year 1908...esspecially since they talk about the mexican revolution being apart of the game which happened in 1911&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well it would make the 1911 very inappropriate actually. And the game doesn't actually contain the revolution proper, but rather the events leading up to the revolution. That being said I highly doubt the 1911 would be in the same game when the 1903/1908 is already confirmed. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 04:36, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Merged Carcano Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a heads up, I moved the image in &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle&amp;quot; and deleted the &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; section. Chris_Hun7er 5:50, 10 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Krag/body ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the actual rifle, but does the second Krag-Jorgensen screen shot show a naked person hanging from the ceiling?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It certainly does. And according to some early reviews there is much worse to be found in the game. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 23:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do you mean in terms of brutality or of nudity?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both from the sound of it[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 00:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hurrah for gratuitous violence!-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 02:17, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=273150</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Dead Redemption</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=273150"/>
		<updated>2010-05-15T04:36:55Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Colt M1911 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Holy patron saint of awesome there's a fucking C96 in the game. I dont care about historical innacuracies, Im glad they finally put this gun in another game. Plus I've been wanting to see it in another western setting since Joe Kidd. Plus I can get all...Lawrence of arabia-y...anyone agree?--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its not inaccurate, the game takes place in 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And now I know. AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well played sir.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Il Grande Silenzio (aka The Great Silence) also features C96 used by the main character in deadly effect. Brilliant movie, you should see it.--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 12:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will do. Now, if somebody would just make a game where I could use a webley other than Bioshock/Darksector. And a mauser. AT THE SAME TIME WOAH!!!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 18:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==This page's format==&lt;br /&gt;
Nice work so far.  I look forward to seeing the page's creators fix the minor page layout errors.  i.e. don't put a LINK to the gun page.  Write an original paragraph about who uses the gun and how it appears in the game and hyperlink the gun NAME to the gun page.  Remember to check the rules &amp;amp; standards, the titles in the sections are never hyperlinked, only the name of the gun in the written section describing the usage in the game.  Also every image should have THUMB in the wiki line with a size designator and the IMFDB page standard descriptors in the gun image and the screenshot.  Any insightful summaries about the game and it's back story would also be nice.  good job.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't planning on adding details about each weapon until after the game is released, and more info is available, also, this is my first try at editing a wiki. (Wematanye)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How come there's no 1887 shotguns. They'd make more sense than an Auto-5 or a pump-action. Browing designed the lever-action specifically for frontiersmen.&lt;br /&gt;
(Hughjefender)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mannlicher M95 or Carcano 38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rifle which is currently called the &amp;quot;Mannlicher 1895&amp;quot; seems to be rather a Carcano 38 which can be seen at the front barrel band. Lookt it up on surplusrifle or google. The Austrian Mannlicher 95 has a different band. Furthermore, but I am not 100% sure about this, the Austrians did not shorten the M95s before WWI. So no matter which rifle it is it is anachronistic in all cases, but it really looks like a Carcano 38.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi it's me again. I just saw that the rifle was positively identified as a Carcano by a recently added screenshot, showing the characteristic magazine which distinguishes the Italian Mannlicher Carcano from the Austrian Steyr Mannlicher M95. Thus the Mannlicher 95 could be removed from the &amp;quot;Needs positive Identification&amp;quot; section.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]] 19 April 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Colt M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
:I was on the Red Dead Redemption wiki the other day and the good ole 1911 was listed as a usable weapon-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 05:20, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well the game is set in 1911 (From what I've been told) so could it possible? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 09:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The game is actually set in 1908 from what I've heard. Chris_Hun7er 17:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The red dead wiki has a number of weapons that are unconfirmed. They are either just hopeful or mistaken, confusing the Bordchart for a Luger and the Colt 1903/1908 for a 1911&lt;br /&gt;
 I have also heard it being set in 1911 [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where did you hear that? all official statements I have heard say 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I couldn't specifically tell you, but I believe it was from a few gaming sites (Games Radar, IGN, Game Informer etc.) [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:28, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had heard the game took place in 1908, which wouldn't make the 1911 appropriate...however who's to say all of the games events take place in the year 1908...esspecially since they talk about the mexican revolution being apart of the game which happened in 1911&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well it would make the 1911 very inappropriate actually. The page for Titanic explains exactly how much. And the game doesn't actually contain the revolution proper, but rather the events leading up to the revolution. That being said I highly doubt the 1911 would be in the same game when the 1903/1908 is already confirmed. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 04:36, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Merged Carcano Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a heads up, I moved the image in &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle&amp;quot; and deleted the &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; section. Chris_Hun7er 5:50, 10 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Krag/body ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the actual rifle, but does the second Krag-Jorgensen screen shot show a naked person hanging from the ceiling?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It certainly does. And according to some early reviews there is much worse to be found in the game. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 23:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do you mean in terms of brutality or of nudity?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both from the sound of it[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 00:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hurrah for gratuitous violence!-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 02:17, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=273085</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Dead Redemption</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=273085"/>
		<updated>2010-05-15T00:49:33Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Krag/body */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Holy patron saint of awesome there's a fucking C96 in the game. I dont care about historical innacuracies, Im glad they finally put this gun in another game. Plus I've been wanting to see it in another western setting since Joe Kidd. Plus I can get all...Lawrence of arabia-y...anyone agree?--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its not inaccurate, the game takes place in 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And now I know. AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well played sir.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Il Grande Silenzio (aka The Great Silence) also features C96 used by the main character in deadly effect. Brilliant movie, you should see it.--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 12:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will do. Now, if somebody would just make a game where I could use a webley other than Bioshock/Darksector. And a mauser. AT THE SAME TIME WOAH!!!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 18:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==This page's format==&lt;br /&gt;
Nice work so far.  I look forward to seeing the page's creators fix the minor page layout errors.  i.e. don't put a LINK to the gun page.  Write an original paragraph about who uses the gun and how it appears in the game and hyperlink the gun NAME to the gun page.  Remember to check the rules &amp;amp; standards, the titles in the sections are never hyperlinked, only the name of the gun in the written section describing the usage in the game.  Also every image should have THUMB in the wiki line with a size designator and the IMFDB page standard descriptors in the gun image and the screenshot.  Any insightful summaries about the game and it's back story would also be nice.  good job.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't planning on adding details about each weapon until after the game is released, and more info is available, also, this is my first try at editing a wiki. (Wematanye)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How come there's no 1887 shotguns. They'd make more sense than an Auto-5 or a pump-action. Browing designed the lever-action specifically for frontiersmen.&lt;br /&gt;
(Hughjefender)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mannlicher M95 or Carcano 38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rifle which is currently called the &amp;quot;Mannlicher 1895&amp;quot; seems to be rather a Carcano 38 which can be seen at the front barrel band. Lookt it up on surplusrifle or google. The Austrian Mannlicher 95 has a different band. Furthermore, but I am not 100% sure about this, the Austrians did not shorten the M95s before WWI. So no matter which rifle it is it is anachronistic in all cases, but it really looks like a Carcano 38.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi it's me again. I just saw that the rifle was positively identified as a Carcano by a recently added screenshot, showing the characteristic magazine which distinguishes the Italian Mannlicher Carcano from the Austrian Steyr Mannlicher M95. Thus the Mannlicher 95 could be removed from the &amp;quot;Needs positive Identification&amp;quot; section.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]] 19 April 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Colt M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
:I was on the Red Dead Redemption wiki the other day and the good ole 1911 was listed as a usable weapon-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 05:20, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well the game is set in 1911 (From what I've been told) so could it possible? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 09:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The game is actually set in 1908 from what I've heard. Chris_Hun7er 17:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The red dead wiki has a number of weapons that are unconfirmed. They are either just hopeful or mistaken, confusing the Bordchart for a Luger and the Colt 1903/1908 for a 1911&lt;br /&gt;
 I have also heard it being set in 1911 [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where did you hear that? all official statements I have heard say 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I couldn't specifically tell you, but I believe it was from a few gaming sites (Games Radar, IGN, Game Informer etc.) [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:28, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Merged Carcano Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a heads up, I moved the image in &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle&amp;quot; and deleted the &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; section. Chris_Hun7er 5:50, 10 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Krag/body ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the actual rifle, but does the second Krag-Jorgensen screen shot show a naked person hanging from the ceiling?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It certainly does. And according to some early reviews there is much worse to be found in the game. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 23:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do you mean in terms of brutality or of nudity?--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both from the sound of it[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 00:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=272518</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Dead Redemption</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption&amp;diff=272518"/>
		<updated>2010-05-13T23:31:46Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Krag/body */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Holy patron saint of awesome there's a fucking C96 in the game. I dont care about historical innacuracies, Im glad they finally put this gun in another game. Plus I've been wanting to see it in another western setting since Joe Kidd. Plus I can get all...Lawrence of arabia-y...anyone agree?--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its not inaccurate, the game takes place in 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And now I know. AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 08:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well played sir.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Il Grande Silenzio (aka The Great Silence) also features C96 used by the main character in deadly effect. Brilliant movie, you should see it.--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 12:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will do. Now, if somebody would just make a game where I could use a webley other than Bioshock/Darksector. And a mauser. AT THE SAME TIME WOAH!!!--[[User:ConditionNone|ConditionNone]] 18:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==This page's format==&lt;br /&gt;
Nice work so far.  I look forward to seeing the page's creators fix the minor page layout errors.  i.e. don't put a LINK to the gun page.  Write an original paragraph about who uses the gun and how it appears in the game and hyperlink the gun NAME to the gun page.  Remember to check the rules &amp;amp; standards, the titles in the sections are never hyperlinked, only the name of the gun in the written section describing the usage in the game.  Also every image should have THUMB in the wiki line with a size designator and the IMFDB page standard descriptors in the gun image and the screenshot.  Any insightful summaries about the game and it's back story would also be nice.  good job.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't planning on adding details about each weapon until after the game is released, and more info is available, also, this is my first try at editing a wiki. (Wematanye)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How come there's no 1887 shotguns. They'd make more sense than an Auto-5 or a pump-action. Browing designed the lever-action specifically for frontiersmen.&lt;br /&gt;
(Hughjefender)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mannlicher M95 or Carcano 38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rifle which is currently called the &amp;quot;Mannlicher 1895&amp;quot; seems to be rather a Carcano 38 which can be seen at the front barrel band. Lookt it up on surplusrifle or google. The Austrian Mannlicher 95 has a different band. Furthermore, but I am not 100% sure about this, the Austrians did not shorten the M95s before WWI. So no matter which rifle it is it is anachronistic in all cases, but it really looks like a Carcano 38.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi it's me again. I just saw that the rifle was positively identified as a Carcano by a recently added screenshot, showing the characteristic magazine which distinguishes the Italian Mannlicher Carcano from the Austrian Steyr Mannlicher M95. Thus the Mannlicher 95 could be removed from the &amp;quot;Needs positive Identification&amp;quot; section.&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings from Franconia. [[User:Paul_Baeumer|Paul_Baeumer]] 19 April 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Colt M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
:I was on the Red Dead Redemption wiki the other day and the good ole 1911 was listed as a usable weapon-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 05:20, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well the game is set in 1911 (From what I've been told) so could it possible? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 09:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The game is actually set in 1908 from what I've heard. Chris_Hun7er 17:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The red dead wiki has a number of weapons that are unconfirmed. They are either just hopeful or mistaken, confusing the Bordchart for a Luger and the Colt 1903/1908 for a 1911&lt;br /&gt;
 I have also heard it being set in 1911 [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where did you hear that? all official statements I have heard say 1908.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I couldn't specifically tell you, but I believe it was from a few gaming sites (Games Radar, IGN, Game Informer etc.) [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:28, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Merged Carcano Rifle ==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a heads up, I moved the image in &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle&amp;quot; and deleted the &amp;quot;Carcano Rifle Scoped&amp;quot; section. Chris_Hun7er 5:50, 10 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Krag/body ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the actual rifle, but does the second Krag-Jorgensen screen shot show a naked person hanging from the ceiling?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It certainly does. And according to some early reviews there is much worse to be found in the game. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 23:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=272496</id>
		<title>Talk:Metal Gear Solid</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=272496"/>
		<updated>2010-05-13T23:24:50Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* US special forces with French FAMASs? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== US special forces with French FAMASs? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My only gripe with this game is why the Japanese developers decided to give the so called US special forces you take on FAMASs. It just has always seemed kinda weird with me. There are so many better looking guns than these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 09:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That annoys me, too. It was used in the PS1 original supposedly only because it was &amp;quot;easy to render&amp;quot; graphics-wise. However, as far as Twin Snakes (which was developed in-house at Silicon Knights in Canada) goes, I would have preferred it to (a bit logically) be replaced by the M4A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
True, that. I recently came into possession of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' for the Nintendo Gamecube and was quite stunned to find that they hadn't updated the FAMAS to an M4 Carbine (or even a M16A3 assault rifle), considering that they bothered to put both the Beretta M9 and Heckler &amp;amp; Koch PSG1-T less-lethal tranquilizer weapons into the game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also saw somewhere that there was a Heckler &amp;amp; Koch submachine gun in the beta (possibly the MP5N) which was later cut from the release version. Unfortunately, I don't know the source off the top of my head. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:58, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Famas is just ugly gun. Period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the Japanese version, the SOCOM was replaced by the USP from MGS2. So they had to render that into the game. So why couldn't they put a gun actually used by US Forces? Lazy people these days... [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That's damn right, Hoot471. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:12, 28 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Just chalk it up to people who don't know guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, according to the developers, they had been looking for unusual-looking and/or obscure weapons as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is not obscure because it's used by a major military, the French. Unusual doesn't describe it. They could have picked a more futuristic design [[Special:Contributions/69.51.184.172|69.51.184.172]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not knowing about guns isn't the problem, Excalibur01.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is that the development team of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' only thought of adding things (first-person shooting, less-than-lethal weapons, etcetera) to the game, instead of improving stuff that was already in it (dialogue, weaponry, etcetera).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In fact, I remember quite clearly reading an article on IGN about how Hideo Kojima did extensive weapons research in preparation for developing the game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only reason for the French FAMAS assault rifle being in the original ''Metal Gear Solid'' was because of graphical limitations and if they had tried rendering an AR-15 model assault rifle, it would have turned out unrecognisable and that is forgivable considering that the game was released in 1998.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''The Twin Snakes'' however, is a different story. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 10:58, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aside from the graphical limitations, I think from an ingame perspective it's possible that the Genome army, being a &amp;quot;black project,&amp;quot; needed a standard assault rifle that was less traceable than &amp;quot;All-American homegrown&amp;quot; M4s or M16 rifles. It could be the case that the FAMAS rifles seen in the game were just the most available and least traceable 5.56mm rifle at the time when the time came to approve the weapons for the Genome army, and 5.56mm ammunition is certainly available from many more sources than rifles are.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even so, it doesn't excuse how useless the gun is in Twin Snakes at penetrating body armour, which you can see in action here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrg4gpzBT-8] (granted, the player in the video is not using the FPV function to aim for headshots). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:22, 5 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why all the FAMAS hate? I think it's a really cool rifle (my personal favorite) and very original to this game besides it's getting boring to see M4 this and M4 that in every freaking game out there. (no offence. M4A1 is still a decent gun) --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 14:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:M16s and M4s are used by so many nations all over the world (even at the time of MGS1's original PS1 release) that I doubt traceability would have been a problem, even for a black ops unit. I know it certainly wasn't back in the '60s when MACV-SOG units were launching covert raids into Laos and Cambodia armed with CAR-15s and XM177s, which weren't exactly commonplace like the M16/M4 platform is today. Compare the number of FAMAS users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS#Service] with the number of M4 users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#Users] and you'll see my point that, if anything, the FAMAS is ''more'' traceable than the M4 alone, let alone the entire M16 family.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
:No one is &amp;quot;hating on&amp;quot; the FAMAS. As for &amp;quot;M4 this, M4 that in every game&amp;quot;, what else do you expect? The M4 is the standard by which every firearm of its class is judged. It's light, accurate, easy to maintain and operate, reliable, and highly modular. It's the epitome of what a military firearm should be. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:48, 25 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Heh, nice yankee propaganda :) I still think that AK is better (I'm sure a lot of people agree with this one) and it's even more reliable and easier to maintain than M4. But why all the bother? Americans use a lot of european guns and nobody's complaining? --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 04:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, I stand corrected on the FAMAS. I do, however, remember reading that during the development of MGS they wanted an assault rifle that looked futuristic in 1998, so they picked the FAMAS to that end. It's likely that they also did so since it was easier to render convincingly with the 3D technology of that day. I own a copy of the PS2 version of MGS2, and even that engine has problems with rendering an M4 convincingly. The round handguard ends up being diamond-shaped, the front sight (being a 2D plane with no thickness) is invisible when you look at it head-on, etc. So it's probable that the FAMAS was chosen for having far fewer curves, which are hard on a primitive engine's polygon limit. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One thing needs to be reiterated though; the Genome Army are not a Special Forces or Black Ops unit--they are a black project, through and through. To my knowledge the Genome Soldiers don't have any field experience either, being raised only on virtual training. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Besides, the MGS series seems to operate on a different timeline than ours, especially since in MGS4 the XM8 was formally adopted. Maybe in the MGS timeline Colt never let their rights to the M16/M4 family lapse. It could explain why in MGS4 so very few soldiers use M4s (only Old Snake and certain soldiers from &amp;quot;All-American&amp;quot; forces), and ''no one'' uses M16s. It's too bad that they didn't implement the FAMAS in MGS4 for old time's sake. The M4 maybe the &amp;quot;epitome&amp;quot; of a short-barrelled assault rifle, but it's a standard that can be met in other ways, otherwise we wouldn't see things like the G36C, the FN F2000, the SA80 series, the Steyr AUG, the FAMAS itself, etc.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I imagine of people in the MGS universe use M4s (that's surmountable to saying nobody uses EOTechs because they replaced Snake's 552 with an Aimpoint CompM2). Even the enemy contractors were originally armed with M4s [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/coletam/Misc%20Web/Military/MGS4PMC.jpg], which is probably the reason the US soldiers and Marines later in the game have XM8s, as a way of visually &amp;quot;separating&amp;quot; them from the contractors. Some of the dialogue regarding it was even left in when Drebin told Snake that the M4 Custom was &amp;quot;a favorite of the big PMCs&amp;quot; and flashbacks during the very first mission briefing even showed contractors with them. So the M4 is a lot more widespread than it appears in the final game. And who's this &amp;quot;certain soldier from the 'All-American' forces&amp;quot; you're talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recall seeing a terrified trainee soldier on the Missouri in MGS4 pointing his M4 (sideways, for some reason) at the swarms of  Dwarf Gekko crawling up the ship's bridge. Still, my point on how graphically difficult it is to convincingly render a weapon with so many rounded surfaces like the M4 stands as the most probable theory as to why it wasn't used in MGS1. They make up for it in MGS2 though (if I ever get my PC port copy working again I'll post screenshots)--Seal Team 10, the Tanker Marines, and the Presidential Bodyguards all use M4s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I still think the relative lack of M4s/M16s in MGS4 (despite Drebin's quip) is a sign that Colt in the MGS timeline held onto their rights with that weapon series, and gave &amp;quot;preferential customer&amp;quot; status to the US forces, while making others pay through the nose to use those weapons, which is probably why FN has so much more market share in MGS4--the SCAR-H, P90, and Five-SeveN all make appearances among many more NPCs than the users of Colt products do. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That or the weapons developers for the game MGS4 wanted the most futuristic of weapons, meaning weapons that are either supposed to replace current standard rifles of today like the M4 or M16. With the P90s, it's always a gun that's for fictional special elite characters. The weird part in MGS4 is that Drebin said the M4 is the official carbine for the US army, but when later on when we see US forces swarm Liquid, they all had XM8s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And to SilentwarriorX, it isn't &amp;quot;yankee&amp;quot; propaganda. Some of the users on this site aren't even American. I will admit the AK is a reliable weapon to use, robust but even the AK has its limits when it comes to sighting targets and accuracy. I'd love to have an AK-47, but you don't see a lot of western military adopting anything similar to AKs. It's more or less a symbol of terrorism, fear and hatred. So the forces in MGS 1 would need a weapon that doesn't represent something that the AK is known for. Though as a futuristic gun, they could have use G36s which were just coming out in the early 90s.  [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:47, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
We may use a lot of European guns, but is the FAMAS one of them? No, it's not. And the excellence of the M4 isn't &amp;quot;yankee propoganda&amp;quot;, it's simple ''fact''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Spartan, just about every one of my friends who has served in the US military thinks the entire M16 series is crap compared to other  rifles that are available now, or what they could have used since it's inception. I myself do not look forward to its use considering a few of the other options. Is it a bad gun? No. Is it the best gun? No. Is it the ideal military weapon? Probably not. sure its light and fairly accurate, but it is also VERY delicate compared to other weapons and also quite complicated compared to say an AK or an M14; it's ammunition is also underpowered and ballistically inefficient. Always remember that military equipment is done by the LOWEST bidder. Whoever can supply a product that can perform A, B, and C for less than $X per unit wins. But your opinion is your own, and neither my input or anyone else's is likely to change that, the same as our opinion is unlikely to change from yours. M4 is your favorite, that's perfectly fine; I think they're fun to shoot but it wouldn't be my first choice in combat. Besides, it's a videogame about genetically engineered supersoldiers and battlemechs, with psychics and ghosts. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please sign your name, in fact, register with the site first off. I'd tell you, all my pals are Marines and they know how to deal with what they got. They've never had actual problems with the M16/M4 in combat and most of them went to Iraq and a couple are now in Afgan with their M4s. Sure, they said it's jammed once or twice, but mostly from misfeds because of the magazines. This is the weapon they trust their life would in combat. Would they like something better? Sure, if the government and the conservatives in the military would get off their asses and pick a newer rifle, but no where soon are they getting the ACR or HK416s. And these are the kinds of guys that aren't above getting their own personal magazines as well as hollow points and frangible bullets, then getting rid of them because they are not regulation. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lastly, yes this is a video game, but we're here to discuss about the guns of the game, not about the super soldiers, and battle mechs with psychics, and ghosts. You don't see anyone here talking about the weapon system on the Rex, do you? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:00, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I truly hope your friends don't get caught violating the Hague Convention. Yes my friends too have performed admirably with their M4s, as there isn't exactly any alternative. The point I was making in regards to mechs, ghosts and such is that considering the other lack of realism already established is it really THAT big of a deal that they chose an assault rifle that was a little bit different, and probably easier to render? To be honest with you I was pretty unfamiliar  with the FAMAS when MGS first came out and now i really like it and would love to take one for a test drive.[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Don't mind it too much, it's there SOP to dump their contraband ammo when they get rotated back and on glancing inspection, they don't look too much different front regular rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I will admit that when I first played the game back in 98, I knew next to nothing about guns at all and thought the FAMAS was a cool weapon. It isn't bad, but I still think when they remade the game for the Game Cube, they could have rendered the weapons with something else [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that by the time the remake came out the FAMAS had become as synonymous with the game as the other weapons, otherwise they probably would have like they did with the Resident Evil remake. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 18:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:And here I was thinking that one of the advantages of complying with the Hague convention in &amp;quot;low-intensity warfare&amp;quot; was that the insurgents were more likely to be wounded rather than killed outright, and therefore more likely to give up information when humanely interrogated (apparently it's not an uncommon element for insurgent detainees to discover that their treatment in the hands of &amp;quot;Blue Forces&amp;quot; is actually better than anything else they've had previously, which provides good incentive for them to crack). And where do your buddies dump the ammo (hopefully away from insurgent reuse)? Not the worst I've heard about our &amp;quot;Blue Forces,&amp;quot; but not a good sign either. &lt;br /&gt;
::The United States isn't a Hague Convention signatory. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:32, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The US actually is, where did you get the idea that we are not?[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 22:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Every Internet search I do for &amp;quot;United States Hague Convention&amp;quot; brings up zilch regarding warfare. All that comes up is intercountry adoption. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:16, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:List of signatory countries with date of signature, http://www.pca-cpa.org/showpage.asp?pag_id=1038 R. Lee Ermy also discussed it on the ammunition episode of Lock 'n Load. 23:24, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd agree with the FAMAS essentially becoming a symbol of the Genome Army in this game, but I'm still a little miffed that it didn't make a return in MGS4. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:55, 12 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== FAMAS Version ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'd mistakenly noted in the article that the Genomes used the F2/G2 version, but after playing it again, I noticed the full-sized hand guard rather than the small trigger guard (characteristic of the F1/G1 version). My apologies. I've also removed my noting from the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:28, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=The_Art_of_War&amp;diff=272494</id>
		<title>The Art of War</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=The_Art_of_War&amp;diff=272494"/>
		<updated>2010-05-13T23:14:04Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* Secret Cache of Weapons */ pin placement and ejection port are wrong for a mossberg&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The following guns were used in the film ''The Art of War'':&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Art of War.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''The Art of War'' (2000)]]&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&amp;lt;br clear=all&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Spectre M4==&lt;br /&gt;
A Security specialist fires a [[Spectre M4]] at Shaw when he parachutes off the building at the beginning of the movie. &lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Sites Spectre.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Spectre M4 9x19mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Security specialist fires a [[Spectre M4]] at Shaw.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Walther P22==&lt;br /&gt;
United Nations operative Neil Shaw ([[Wesley Snipes]]) carries a [[Walther P22]] as his sidearm when he pursues the assassin through the streets of New York.  He is seen giving up the weapon when he's confronted by the NYPD.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW009.jpg|thumb|none|600px|United Nations operative Neil Shaw ([[Wesley Snipes]]) gives up his Walther .]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW010.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the Walther.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The trigger guard looks a bit to rounded to be a P22&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I want to say it looks like a PSM, PSS, or maybe a Type 77&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Glock 17==&lt;br /&gt;
Shaw ([[Wesley Snipes]]) then gets a [[Glock 17]] fitted with a suppressor from a former operative's secret cache of weapons.  NYPD officers as well as FBI Special Agent Frank Capella ([[Maury Chaykin]]) also carry the Glock.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Glock17EarlyModel.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 17 - 9mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW023.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW026.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW032.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Beretta 92FS==&lt;br /&gt;
Operative Robert Bly ([[Michael Biehn]]) carries a suppressed [[Beretta 92FS]] when he confronts Shaw at the United Nations.  Also seen in the hands of NYPD officers.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW025.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW026.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Beretta 93R==&lt;br /&gt;
An assassin is seen with a [[Beretta 93R]] later in the film.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Beretta M93.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 93R with wood grips 9x19mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW030.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Beretta 92D==&lt;br /&gt;
Shaw is seen shooting his leg chains with a [[Beretta 92F|Beretta 92D]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW016.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Para-Ordnance P-13 ==&lt;br /&gt;
A Chinese assassin is seen holding a suppressed [[M1911 pistol series|Para-Ordnance P13]].&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Para Ordinance P-13 45.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Para-Ordnance P-13 - .45 ACP]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW020.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Heckler &amp;amp; Koch USP==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A [[Heckler &amp;amp; Koch USP]] is seen drawn by bodyguard of Ambassador Wu ([[James Hong]]).&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:H&amp;amp;KUSP40.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler &amp;amp; Koch USP .40 S&amp;amp;W]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW007.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Walther PPK ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A female assassin is seen with a suppressed [[Walther PPK]] when confronting Julia Fang ([[Marie Matiko]]) in the hospital.&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:WaltherPPKSuppressed.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW033.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Steyr AUG==&lt;br /&gt;
An assassin is seen using a suppressed [[Steyr AUG]] to eliminate Ambassador Wu.   The AUG is later seen being put in the hands of Shaw in order to frame him.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Steyr-AUG.jpg|none|thumb|450px|Steyr AUG - Austrian Army Version 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Heckler &amp;amp; Koch MP5A3==&lt;br /&gt;
NYPD ESU members are armed with the [[Heckler &amp;amp; Koch MP5A3]] when confronting Shaw on the street.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:HKmp5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler &amp;amp; Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and safe-semi-two round burst trigger group]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW011.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M16A2==&lt;br /&gt;
An honor guard detail is seen holding [[M16A2]]s during a funeral ceremony.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm.  Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW031.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Secret Cache of Weapons==&lt;br /&gt;
Shaw smashes a mirror to reveal a secret cache of weapons. Among the weapons are a Ruger mini-14 GB-F, an MP5K-PDW, a stainless Remington 870, 2 Glocks, a 1911, a pearl-gripped pocket pistol, and a stainless revolver model. &lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AOW021.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Category:Movie]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Action Movie]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=272485</id>
		<title>Talk:Metal Gear Solid</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=272485"/>
		<updated>2010-05-13T22:56:24Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* US special forces with French FAMASs? */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== US special forces with French FAMASs? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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My only gripe with this game is why the Japanese developers decided to give the so called US special forces you take on FAMASs. It just has always seemed kinda weird with me. There are so many better looking guns than these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 09:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That annoys me, too. It was used in the PS1 original supposedly only because it was &amp;quot;easy to render&amp;quot; graphics-wise. However, as far as Twin Snakes (which was developed in-house at Silicon Knights in Canada) goes, I would have preferred it to (a bit logically) be replaced by the M4A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;br /&gt;
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True, that. I recently came into possession of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' for the Nintendo Gamecube and was quite stunned to find that they hadn't updated the FAMAS to an M4 Carbine (or even a M16A3 assault rifle), considering that they bothered to put both the Beretta M9 and Heckler &amp;amp; Koch PSG1-T less-lethal tranquilizer weapons into the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also saw somewhere that there was a Heckler &amp;amp; Koch submachine gun in the beta (possibly the MP5N) which was later cut from the release version. Unfortunately, I don't know the source off the top of my head. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:58, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Famas is just ugly gun. Period.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Japanese version, the SOCOM was replaced by the USP from MGS2. So they had to render that into the game. So why couldn't they put a gun actually used by US Forces? Lazy people these days... [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's damn right, Hoot471. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:12, 28 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Just chalk it up to people who don't know guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually, according to the developers, they had been looking for unusual-looking and/or obscure weapons as well.&lt;br /&gt;
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The FAMAS is not obscure because it's used by a major military, the French. Unusual doesn't describe it. They could have picked a more futuristic design [[Special:Contributions/69.51.184.172|69.51.184.172]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not knowing about guns isn't the problem, Excalibur01.&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is that the development team of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' only thought of adding things (first-person shooting, less-than-lethal weapons, etcetera) to the game, instead of improving stuff that was already in it (dialogue, weaponry, etcetera).&lt;br /&gt;
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In fact, I remember quite clearly reading an article on IGN about how Hideo Kojima did extensive weapons research in preparation for developing the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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The only reason for the French FAMAS assault rifle being in the original ''Metal Gear Solid'' was because of graphical limitations and if they had tried rendering an AR-15 model assault rifle, it would have turned out unrecognisable and that is forgivable considering that the game was released in 1998.&lt;br /&gt;
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''The Twin Snakes'' however, is a different story. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 10:58, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Aside from the graphical limitations, I think from an ingame perspective it's possible that the Genome army, being a &amp;quot;black project,&amp;quot; needed a standard assault rifle that was less traceable than &amp;quot;All-American homegrown&amp;quot; M4s or M16 rifles. It could be the case that the FAMAS rifles seen in the game were just the most available and least traceable 5.56mm rifle at the time when the time came to approve the weapons for the Genome army, and 5.56mm ammunition is certainly available from many more sources than rifles are.&lt;br /&gt;
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Even so, it doesn't excuse how useless the gun is in Twin Snakes at penetrating body armour, which you can see in action here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrg4gpzBT-8] (granted, the player in the video is not using the FPV function to aim for headshots). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:22, 5 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Why all the FAMAS hate? I think it's a really cool rifle (my personal favorite) and very original to this game besides it's getting boring to see M4 this and M4 that in every freaking game out there. (no offence. M4A1 is still a decent gun) --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 14:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:M16s and M4s are used by so many nations all over the world (even at the time of MGS1's original PS1 release) that I doubt traceability would have been a problem, even for a black ops unit. I know it certainly wasn't back in the '60s when MACV-SOG units were launching covert raids into Laos and Cambodia armed with CAR-15s and XM177s, which weren't exactly commonplace like the M16/M4 platform is today. Compare the number of FAMAS users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS#Service] with the number of M4 users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#Users] and you'll see my point that, if anything, the FAMAS is ''more'' traceable than the M4 alone, let alone the entire M16 family.&lt;br /&gt;
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:@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
:No one is &amp;quot;hating on&amp;quot; the FAMAS. As for &amp;quot;M4 this, M4 that in every game&amp;quot;, what else do you expect? The M4 is the standard by which every firearm of its class is judged. It's light, accurate, easy to maintain and operate, reliable, and highly modular. It's the epitome of what a military firearm should be. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:48, 25 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Heh, nice yankee propaganda :) I still think that AK is better (I'm sure a lot of people agree with this one) and it's even more reliable and easier to maintain than M4. But why all the bother? Americans use a lot of european guns and nobody's complaining? --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 04:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, I stand corrected on the FAMAS. I do, however, remember reading that during the development of MGS they wanted an assault rifle that looked futuristic in 1998, so they picked the FAMAS to that end. It's likely that they also did so since it was easier to render convincingly with the 3D technology of that day. I own a copy of the PS2 version of MGS2, and even that engine has problems with rendering an M4 convincingly. The round handguard ends up being diamond-shaped, the front sight (being a 2D plane with no thickness) is invisible when you look at it head-on, etc. So it's probable that the FAMAS was chosen for having far fewer curves, which are hard on a primitive engine's polygon limit. &lt;br /&gt;
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One thing needs to be reiterated though; the Genome Army are not a Special Forces or Black Ops unit--they are a black project, through and through. To my knowledge the Genome Soldiers don't have any field experience either, being raised only on virtual training. &lt;br /&gt;
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Besides, the MGS series seems to operate on a different timeline than ours, especially since in MGS4 the XM8 was formally adopted. Maybe in the MGS timeline Colt never let their rights to the M16/M4 family lapse. It could explain why in MGS4 so very few soldiers use M4s (only Old Snake and certain soldiers from &amp;quot;All-American&amp;quot; forces), and ''no one'' uses M16s. It's too bad that they didn't implement the FAMAS in MGS4 for old time's sake. The M4 maybe the &amp;quot;epitome&amp;quot; of a short-barrelled assault rifle, but it's a standard that can be met in other ways, otherwise we wouldn't see things like the G36C, the FN F2000, the SA80 series, the Steyr AUG, the FAMAS itself, etc.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I imagine of people in the MGS universe use M4s (that's surmountable to saying nobody uses EOTechs because they replaced Snake's 552 with an Aimpoint CompM2). Even the enemy contractors were originally armed with M4s [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/coletam/Misc%20Web/Military/MGS4PMC.jpg], which is probably the reason the US soldiers and Marines later in the game have XM8s, as a way of visually &amp;quot;separating&amp;quot; them from the contractors. Some of the dialogue regarding it was even left in when Drebin told Snake that the M4 Custom was &amp;quot;a favorite of the big PMCs&amp;quot; and flashbacks during the very first mission briefing even showed contractors with them. So the M4 is a lot more widespread than it appears in the final game. And who's this &amp;quot;certain soldier from the 'All-American' forces&amp;quot; you're talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I recall seeing a terrified trainee soldier on the Missouri in MGS4 pointing his M4 (sideways, for some reason) at the swarms of  Dwarf Gekko crawling up the ship's bridge. Still, my point on how graphically difficult it is to convincingly render a weapon with so many rounded surfaces like the M4 stands as the most probable theory as to why it wasn't used in MGS1. They make up for it in MGS2 though (if I ever get my PC port copy working again I'll post screenshots)--Seal Team 10, the Tanker Marines, and the Presidential Bodyguards all use M4s. &lt;br /&gt;
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I still think the relative lack of M4s/M16s in MGS4 (despite Drebin's quip) is a sign that Colt in the MGS timeline held onto their rights with that weapon series, and gave &amp;quot;preferential customer&amp;quot; status to the US forces, while making others pay through the nose to use those weapons, which is probably why FN has so much more market share in MGS4--the SCAR-H, P90, and Five-SeveN all make appearances among many more NPCs than the users of Colt products do. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That or the weapons developers for the game MGS4 wanted the most futuristic of weapons, meaning weapons that are either supposed to replace current standard rifles of today like the M4 or M16. With the P90s, it's always a gun that's for fictional special elite characters. The weird part in MGS4 is that Drebin said the M4 is the official carbine for the US army, but when later on when we see US forces swarm Liquid, they all had XM8s. &lt;br /&gt;
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And to SilentwarriorX, it isn't &amp;quot;yankee&amp;quot; propaganda. Some of the users on this site aren't even American. I will admit the AK is a reliable weapon to use, robust but even the AK has its limits when it comes to sighting targets and accuracy. I'd love to have an AK-47, but you don't see a lot of western military adopting anything similar to AKs. It's more or less a symbol of terrorism, fear and hatred. So the forces in MGS 1 would need a weapon that doesn't represent something that the AK is known for. Though as a futuristic gun, they could have use G36s which were just coming out in the early 90s.  [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:47, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
We may use a lot of European guns, but is the FAMAS one of them? No, it's not. And the excellence of the M4 isn't &amp;quot;yankee propoganda&amp;quot;, it's simple ''fact''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Spartan, just about every one of my friends who has served in the US military thinks the entire M16 series is crap compared to other  rifles that are available now, or what they could have used since it's inception. I myself do not look forward to its use considering a few of the other options. Is it a bad gun? No. Is it the best gun? No. Is it the ideal military weapon? Probably not. sure its light and fairly accurate, but it is also VERY delicate compared to other weapons and also quite complicated compared to say an AK or an M14; it's ammunition is also underpowered and ballistically inefficient. Always remember that military equipment is done by the LOWEST bidder. Whoever can supply a product that can perform A, B, and C for less than $X per unit wins. But your opinion is your own, and neither my input or anyone else's is likely to change that, the same as our opinion is unlikely to change from yours. M4 is your favorite, that's perfectly fine; I think they're fun to shoot but it wouldn't be my first choice in combat. Besides, it's a videogame about genetically engineered supersoldiers and battlemechs, with psychics and ghosts. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Please sign your name, in fact, register with the site first off. I'd tell you, all my pals are Marines and they know how to deal with what they got. They've never had actual problems with the M16/M4 in combat and most of them went to Iraq and a couple are now in Afgan with their M4s. Sure, they said it's jammed once or twice, but mostly from misfeds because of the magazines. This is the weapon they trust their life would in combat. Would they like something better? Sure, if the government and the conservatives in the military would get off their asses and pick a newer rifle, but no where soon are they getting the ACR or HK416s. And these are the kinds of guys that aren't above getting their own personal magazines as well as hollow points and frangible bullets, then getting rid of them because they are not regulation. &lt;br /&gt;
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Lastly, yes this is a video game, but we're here to discuss about the guns of the game, not about the super soldiers, and battle mechs with psychics, and ghosts. You don't see anyone here talking about the weapon system on the Rex, do you? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:00, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I truly hope your friends don't get caught violating the Hague Convention. Yes my friends too have performed admirably with their M4s, as there isn't exactly any alternative. The point I was making in regards to mechs, ghosts and such is that considering the other lack of realism already established is it really THAT big of a deal that they chose an assault rifle that was a little bit different, and probably easier to render? To be honest with you I was pretty unfamiliar  with the FAMAS when MGS first came out and now i really like it and would love to take one for a test drive.[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Don't mind it too much, it's there SOP to dump their contraband ammo when they get rotated back and on glancing inspection, they don't look too much different front regular rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
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Anyway, I will admit that when I first played the game back in 98, I knew next to nothing about guns at all and thought the FAMAS was a cool weapon. It isn't bad, but I still think when they remade the game for the Game Cube, they could have rendered the weapons with something else [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that by the time the remake came out the FAMAS had become as synonymous with the game as the other weapons, otherwise they probably would have like they did with the Resident Evil remake. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 18:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:And here I was thinking that one of the advantages of complying with the Hague convention in &amp;quot;low-intensity warfare&amp;quot; was that the insurgents were more likely to be wounded rather than killed outright, and therefore more likely to give up information when humanely interrogated (apparently it's not an uncommon element for insurgent detainees to discover that their treatment in the hands of &amp;quot;Blue Forces&amp;quot; is actually better than anything else they've had previously, which provides good incentive for them to crack). And where do your buddies dump the ammo (hopefully away from insurgent reuse)? Not the worst I've heard about our &amp;quot;Blue Forces,&amp;quot; but not a good sign either. &lt;br /&gt;
::The United States isn't a Hague Convention signatory. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:32, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The US actually is, where did you get the idea that we are not?[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 22:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'd agree with the FAMAS essentially becoming a symbol of the Genome Army in this game, but I'm still a little miffed that it didn't make a return in MGS4. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:55, 12 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== FAMAS Version ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'd mistakenly noted in the article that the Genomes used the F2/G2 version, but after playing it again, I noticed the full-sized hand guard rather than the small trigger guard (characteristic of the F1/G1 version). My apologies. I've also removed my noting from the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:28, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=271485</id>
		<title>Talk:Metal Gear Solid</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=271485"/>
		<updated>2010-05-11T18:55:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* US special forces with French FAMASs? */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== US special forces with French FAMASs? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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My only gripe with this game is why the Japanese developers decided to give the so called US special forces you take on FAMASs. It just has always seemed kinda weird with me. There are so many better looking guns than these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 09:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That annoys me, too. It was used in the PS1 original supposedly only because it was &amp;quot;easy to render&amp;quot; graphics-wise. However, as far as Twin Snakes (which was developed in-house at Silicon Knights in Canada) goes, I would have preferred it to (a bit logically) be replaced by the M4A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;br /&gt;
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True, that. I recently came into possession of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' for the Nintendo Gamecube and was quite stunned to find that they hadn't updated the FAMAS to an M4 Carbine (or even a M16A3 assault rifle), considering that they bothered to put both the Beretta M9 and Heckler &amp;amp; Koch PSG1-T less-lethal tranquilizer weapons into the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also saw somewhere that there was a Heckler &amp;amp; Koch submachine gun in the beta (possibly the MP5N) which was later cut from the release version. Unfortunately, I don't know the source off the top of my head. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:58, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Famas is just ugly gun. Period.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Japanese version, the SOCOM was replaced by the USP from MGS2. So they had to render that into the game. So why couldn't they put a gun actually used by US Forces? Lazy people these days... [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's damn right, Hoot471. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:12, 28 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Just chalk it up to people who don't know guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually, according to the developers, they had been looking for unusual-looking and/or obscure weapons as well.&lt;br /&gt;
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The FAMAS is not obscure because it's used by a major military, the French. Unusual doesn't describe it. They could have picked a more futuristic design [[Special:Contributions/69.51.184.172|69.51.184.172]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not knowing about guns isn't the problem, Excalibur01.&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is that the development team of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' only thought of adding things (first-person shooting, less-than-lethal weapons, etcetera) to the game, instead of improving stuff that was already in it (dialogue, weaponry, etcetera).&lt;br /&gt;
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In fact, I remember quite clearly reading an article on IGN about how Hideo Kojima did extensive weapons research in preparation for developing the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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The only reason for the French FAMAS assault rifle being in the original ''Metal Gear Solid'' was because of graphical limitations and if they had tried rendering an AR-15 model assault rifle, it would have turned out unrecognisable and that is forgivable considering that the game was released in 1998.&lt;br /&gt;
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''The Twin Snakes'' however, is a different story. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 10:58, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Aside from the graphical limitations, I think from an ingame perspective it's possible that the Genome army, being a &amp;quot;black project,&amp;quot; needed a standard assault rifle that was less traceable than &amp;quot;All-American homegrown&amp;quot; M4s or M16 rifles. It could be the case that the FAMAS rifles seen in the game were just the most available and least traceable 5.56mm rifle at the time when the time came to approve the weapons for the Genome army, and 5.56mm ammunition is certainly available from many more sources than rifles are.&lt;br /&gt;
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Even so, it doesn't excuse how useless the gun is in Twin Snakes at penetrating body armour, which you can see in action here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrg4gpzBT-8] (granted, the player in the video is not using the FPV function to aim for headshots). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:22, 5 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Why all the FAMAS hate? I think it's a really cool rifle (my personal favorite) and very original to this game besides it's getting boring to see M4 this and M4 that in every freaking game out there. (no offence. M4A1 is still a decent gun) --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 14:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:M16s and M4s are used by so many nations all over the world (even at the time of MGS1's original PS1 release) that I doubt traceability would have been a problem, even for a black ops unit. I know it certainly wasn't back in the '60s when MACV-SOG units were launching covert raids into Laos and Cambodia armed with CAR-15s and XM177s, which weren't exactly commonplace like the M16/M4 platform is today. Compare the number of FAMAS users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS#Service] with the number of M4 users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#Users] and you'll see my point that, if anything, the FAMAS is ''more'' traceable than the M4 alone, let alone the entire M16 family.&lt;br /&gt;
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:@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
:No one is &amp;quot;hating on&amp;quot; the FAMAS. As for &amp;quot;M4 this, M4 that in every game&amp;quot;, what else do you expect? The M4 is the standard by which every firearm of its class is judged. It's light, accurate, easy to maintain and operate, reliable, and highly modular. It's the epitome of what a military firearm should be. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:48, 25 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Heh, nice yankee propaganda :) I still think that AK is better (I'm sure a lot of people agree with this one) and it's even more reliable and easier to maintain than M4. But why all the bother? Americans use a lot of european guns and nobody's complaining? --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 04:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, I stand corrected on the FAMAS. I do, however, remember reading that during the development of MGS they wanted an assault rifle that looked futuristic in 1998, so they picked the FAMAS to that end. It's likely that they also did so since it was easier to render convincingly with the 3D technology of that day. I own a copy of the PS2 version of MGS2, and even that engine has problems with rendering an M4 convincingly. The round handguard ends up being diamond-shaped, the front sight (being a 2D plane with no thickness) is invisible when you look at it head-on, etc. So it's probable that the FAMAS was chosen for having far fewer curves, which are hard on a primitive engine's polygon limit. &lt;br /&gt;
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One thing needs to be reiterated though; the Genome Army are not a Special Forces or Black Ops unit--they are a black project, through and through. To my knowledge the Genome Soldiers don't have any field experience either, being raised only on virtual training. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Besides, the MGS series seems to operate on a different timeline than ours, especially since in MGS4 the XM8 was formally adopted. Maybe in the MGS timeline Colt never let their rights to the M16/M4 family lapse. It could explain why in MGS4 so very few soldiers use M4s (only Old Snake and certain soldiers from &amp;quot;All-American&amp;quot; forces), and ''no one'' uses M16s. It's too bad that they didn't implement the FAMAS in MGS4 for old time's sake. The M4 maybe the &amp;quot;epitome&amp;quot; of a short-barrelled assault rifle, but it's a standard that can be met in other ways, otherwise we wouldn't see things like the G36C, the FN F2000, the SA80 series, the Steyr AUG, the FAMAS itself, etc.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I imagine of people in the MGS universe use M4s (that's surmountable to saying nobody uses EOTechs because they replaced Snake's 552 with an Aimpoint CompM2). Even the enemy contractors were originally armed with M4s [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/coletam/Misc%20Web/Military/MGS4PMC.jpg], which is probably the reason the US soldiers and Marines later in the game have XM8s, as a way of visually &amp;quot;separating&amp;quot; them from the contractors. Some of the dialogue regarding it was even left in when Drebin told Snake that the M4 Custom was &amp;quot;a favorite of the big PMCs&amp;quot; and flashbacks during the very first mission briefing even showed contractors with them. So the M4 is a lot more widespread than it appears in the final game. And who's this &amp;quot;certain soldier from the 'All-American' forces&amp;quot; you're talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I recall seeing a terrified trainee soldier on the Missouri in MGS4 pointing his M4 (sideways, for some reason) at the swarms of  Dwarf Gekko crawling up the ship's bridge. Still, my point on how graphically difficult it is to convincingly render a weapon with so many rounded surfaces like the M4 stands as the most probable theory as to why it wasn't used in MGS1. They make up for it in MGS2 though (if I ever get my PC port copy working again I'll post screenshots)--Seal Team 10, the Tanker Marines, and the Presidential Bodyguards all use M4s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I still think the relative lack of M4s/M16s in MGS4 (despite Drebin's quip) is a sign that Colt in the MGS timeline held onto their rights with that weapon series, and gave &amp;quot;preferential customer&amp;quot; status to the US forces, while making others pay through the nose to use those weapons, which is probably why FN has so much more market share in MGS4--the SCAR-H, P90, and Five-SeveN all make appearances among many more NPCs than the users of Colt products do. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That or the weapons developers for the game MGS4 wanted the most futuristic of weapons, meaning weapons that are either supposed to replace current standard rifles of today like the M4 or M16. With the P90s, it's always a gun that's for fictional special elite characters. The weird part in MGS4 is that Drebin said the M4 is the official carbine for the US army, but when later on when we see US forces swarm Liquid, they all had XM8s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And to SilentwarriorX, it isn't &amp;quot;yankee&amp;quot; propaganda. Some of the users on this site aren't even American. I will admit the AK is a reliable weapon to use, robust but even the AK has its limits when it comes to sighting targets and accuracy. I'd love to have an AK-47, but you don't see a lot of western military adopting anything similar to AKs. It's more or less a symbol of terrorism, fear and hatred. So the forces in MGS 1 would need a weapon that doesn't represent something that the AK is known for. Though as a futuristic gun, they could have use G36s which were just coming out in the early 90s.  [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:47, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
We may use a lot of European guns, but is the FAMAS one of them? No, it's not. And the excellence of the M4 isn't &amp;quot;yankee propoganda&amp;quot;, it's simple ''fact''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Spartan, just about every one of my friends who has served in the US military thinks the entire M16 series is crap compared to other  rifles that are available now, or what they could have used since it's inception. I myself do not look forward to its use considering a few of the other options. Is it a bad gun? No. Is it the best gun? No. Is it the ideal military weapon? Probably not. sure its light and fairly accurate, but it is also VERY delicate compared to other weapons and also quite complicated compared to say an AK or an M14; it's ammunition is also underpowered and ballistically inefficient. Always remember that military equipment is done by the LOWEST bidder. Whoever can supply a product that can perform A, B, and C for less than $X per unit wins. But your opinion is your own, and neither my input or anyone else's is likely to change that, the same as our opinion is unlikely to change from yours. M4 is your favorite, that's perfectly fine; I think they're fun to shoot but it wouldn't be my first choice in combat. Besides, it's a videogame about genetically engineered supersoldiers and battlemechs, with psychics and ghosts. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Please sign your name, in fact, register with the site first off. I'd tell you, all my pals are Marines and they know how to deal with what they got. They've never had actual problems with the M16/M4 in combat and most of them went to Iraq and a couple are now in Afgan with their M4s. Sure, they said it's jammed once or twice, but mostly from misfeds because of the magazines. This is the weapon they trust their life would in combat. Would they like something better? Sure, if the government and the conservatives in the military would get off their asses and pick a newer rifle, but no where soon are they getting the ACR or HK416s. And these are the kinds of guys that aren't above getting their own personal magazines as well as hollow points and frangible bullets, then getting rid of them because they are not regulation. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lastly, yes this is a video game, but we're here to discuss about the guns of the game, not about the super soldiers, and battle mechs with psychics, and ghosts. You don't see anyone here talking about the weapon system on the Rex, do you? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:00, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I truly hope your friends don't get caught violating the Hague Convention. Yes my friends too have performed admirably with their M4s, as there isn't exactly any alternative. The point I was making in regards to mechs, ghosts and such is that considering the other lack of realism already established is it really THAT big of a deal that they chose an assault rifle that was a little bit different, and probably easier to render? To be honest with you I was pretty unfamiliar  with the FAMAS when MGS first came out and now i really like it and would love to take one for a test drive.[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Don't mind it too much, it's there SOP to dump their contraband ammo when they get rotated back and on glancing inspection, they don't look too much different front regular rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
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Anyway, I will admit that when I first played the game back in 98, I knew next to nothing about guns at all and thought the FAMAS was a cool weapon. It isn't bad, but I still think when they remade the game for the Game Cube, they could have rendered the weapons with something else [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that by the time the remake came out the FAMAS had become as synonymous with the game as the other weapons, otherwise they probably would have like they did with the Resident Evil remake. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 18:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== FAMAS Version ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'd mistakenly noted in the article that the Genomes used the F2/G2 version, but after playing it again, I noticed the full-sized hand guard rather than the small trigger guard (characteristic of the F1/G1 version). My apologies. I've also removed my noting from the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:28, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=271378</id>
		<title>Talk:Metal Gear Solid</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=271378"/>
		<updated>2010-05-11T16:07:54Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* US special forces with French FAMASs? */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== US special forces with French FAMASs? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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My only gripe with this game is why the Japanese developers decided to give the so called US special forces you take on FAMASs. It just has always seemed kinda weird with me. There are so many better looking guns than these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 09:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That annoys me, too. It was used in the PS1 original supposedly only because it was &amp;quot;easy to render&amp;quot; graphics-wise. However, as far as Twin Snakes (which was developed in-house at Silicon Knights in Canada) goes, I would have preferred it to (a bit logically) be replaced by the M4A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;br /&gt;
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True, that. I recently came into possession of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' for the Nintendo Gamecube and was quite stunned to find that they hadn't updated the FAMAS to an M4 Carbine (or even a M16A3 assault rifle), considering that they bothered to put both the Beretta M9 and Heckler &amp;amp; Koch PSG1-T less-lethal tranquilizer weapons into the game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also saw somewhere that there was a Heckler &amp;amp; Koch submachine gun in the beta (possibly the MP5N) which was later cut from the release version. Unfortunately, I don't know the source off the top of my head. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:58, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Famas is just ugly gun. Period.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Japanese version, the SOCOM was replaced by the USP from MGS2. So they had to render that into the game. So why couldn't they put a gun actually used by US Forces? Lazy people these days... [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's damn right, Hoot471. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:12, 28 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Just chalk it up to people who don't know guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually, according to the developers, they had been looking for unusual-looking and/or obscure weapons as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is not obscure because it's used by a major military, the French. Unusual doesn't describe it. They could have picked a more futuristic design [[Special:Contributions/69.51.184.172|69.51.184.172]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not knowing about guns isn't the problem, Excalibur01.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is that the development team of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' only thought of adding things (first-person shooting, less-than-lethal weapons, etcetera) to the game, instead of improving stuff that was already in it (dialogue, weaponry, etcetera).&lt;br /&gt;
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In fact, I remember quite clearly reading an article on IGN about how Hideo Kojima did extensive weapons research in preparation for developing the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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The only reason for the French FAMAS assault rifle being in the original ''Metal Gear Solid'' was because of graphical limitations and if they had tried rendering an AR-15 model assault rifle, it would have turned out unrecognisable and that is forgivable considering that the game was released in 1998.&lt;br /&gt;
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''The Twin Snakes'' however, is a different story. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 10:58, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Aside from the graphical limitations, I think from an ingame perspective it's possible that the Genome army, being a &amp;quot;black project,&amp;quot; needed a standard assault rifle that was less traceable than &amp;quot;All-American homegrown&amp;quot; M4s or M16 rifles. It could be the case that the FAMAS rifles seen in the game were just the most available and least traceable 5.56mm rifle at the time when the time came to approve the weapons for the Genome army, and 5.56mm ammunition is certainly available from many more sources than rifles are.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even so, it doesn't excuse how useless the gun is in Twin Snakes at penetrating body armour, which you can see in action here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrg4gpzBT-8] (granted, the player in the video is not using the FPV function to aim for headshots). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:22, 5 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Why all the FAMAS hate? I think it's a really cool rifle (my personal favorite) and very original to this game besides it's getting boring to see M4 this and M4 that in every freaking game out there. (no offence. M4A1 is still a decent gun) --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 14:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:M16s and M4s are used by so many nations all over the world (even at the time of MGS1's original PS1 release) that I doubt traceability would have been a problem, even for a black ops unit. I know it certainly wasn't back in the '60s when MACV-SOG units were launching covert raids into Laos and Cambodia armed with CAR-15s and XM177s, which weren't exactly commonplace like the M16/M4 platform is today. Compare the number of FAMAS users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS#Service] with the number of M4 users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#Users] and you'll see my point that, if anything, the FAMAS is ''more'' traceable than the M4 alone, let alone the entire M16 family.&lt;br /&gt;
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:@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
:No one is &amp;quot;hating on&amp;quot; the FAMAS. As for &amp;quot;M4 this, M4 that in every game&amp;quot;, what else do you expect? The M4 is the standard by which every firearm of its class is judged. It's light, accurate, easy to maintain and operate, reliable, and highly modular. It's the epitome of what a military firearm should be. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:48, 25 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Heh, nice yankee propaganda :) I still think that AK is better (I'm sure a lot of people agree with this one) and it's even more reliable and easier to maintain than M4. But why all the bother? Americans use a lot of european guns and nobody's complaining? --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 04:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, I stand corrected on the FAMAS. I do, however, remember reading that during the development of MGS they wanted an assault rifle that looked futuristic in 1998, so they picked the FAMAS to that end. It's likely that they also did so since it was easier to render convincingly with the 3D technology of that day. I own a copy of the PS2 version of MGS2, and even that engine has problems with rendering an M4 convincingly. The round handguard ends up being diamond-shaped, the front sight (being a 2D plane with no thickness) is invisible when you look at it head-on, etc. So it's probable that the FAMAS was chosen for having far fewer curves, which are hard on a primitive engine's polygon limit. &lt;br /&gt;
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One thing needs to be reiterated though; the Genome Army are not a Special Forces or Black Ops unit--they are a black project, through and through. To my knowledge the Genome Soldiers don't have any field experience either, being raised only on virtual training. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Besides, the MGS series seems to operate on a different timeline than ours, especially since in MGS4 the XM8 was formally adopted. Maybe in the MGS timeline Colt never let their rights to the M16/M4 family lapse. It could explain why in MGS4 so very few soldiers use M4s (only Old Snake and certain soldiers from &amp;quot;All-American&amp;quot; forces), and ''no one'' uses M16s. It's too bad that they didn't implement the FAMAS in MGS4 for old time's sake. The M4 maybe the &amp;quot;epitome&amp;quot; of a short-barrelled assault rifle, but it's a standard that can be met in other ways, otherwise we wouldn't see things like the G36C, the FN F2000, the SA80 series, the Steyr AUG, the FAMAS itself, etc.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I imagine of people in the MGS universe use M4s (that's surmountable to saying nobody uses EOTechs because they replaced Snake's 552 with an Aimpoint CompM2). Even the enemy contractors were originally armed with M4s [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/coletam/Misc%20Web/Military/MGS4PMC.jpg], which is probably the reason the US soldiers and Marines later in the game have XM8s, as a way of visually &amp;quot;separating&amp;quot; them from the contractors. Some of the dialogue regarding it was even left in when Drebin told Snake that the M4 Custom was &amp;quot;a favorite of the big PMCs&amp;quot; and flashbacks during the very first mission briefing even showed contractors with them. So the M4 is a lot more widespread than it appears in the final game. And who's this &amp;quot;certain soldier from the 'All-American' forces&amp;quot; you're talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recall seeing a terrified trainee soldier on the Missouri in MGS4 pointing his M4 (sideways, for some reason) at the swarms of  Dwarf Gekko crawling up the ship's bridge. Still, my point on how graphically difficult it is to convincingly render a weapon with so many rounded surfaces like the M4 stands as the most probable theory as to why it wasn't used in MGS1. They make up for it in MGS2 though (if I ever get my PC port copy working again I'll post screenshots)--Seal Team 10, the Tanker Marines, and the Presidential Bodyguards all use M4s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I still think the relative lack of M4s/M16s in MGS4 (despite Drebin's quip) is a sign that Colt in the MGS timeline held onto their rights with that weapon series, and gave &amp;quot;preferential customer&amp;quot; status to the US forces, while making others pay through the nose to use those weapons, which is probably why FN has so much more market share in MGS4--the SCAR-H, P90, and Five-SeveN all make appearances among many more NPCs than the users of Colt products do. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That or the weapons developers for the game MGS4 wanted the most futuristic of weapons, meaning weapons that are either supposed to replace current standard rifles of today like the M4 or M16. With the P90s, it's always a gun that's for fictional special elite characters. The weird part in MGS4 is that Drebin said the M4 is the official carbine for the US army, but when later on when we see US forces swarm Liquid, they all had XM8s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And to SilentwarriorX, it isn't &amp;quot;yankee&amp;quot; propaganda. Some of the users on this site aren't even American. I will admit the AK is a reliable weapon to use, robust but even the AK has its limits when it comes to sighting targets and accuracy. I'd love to have an AK-47, but you don't see a lot of western military adopting anything similar to AKs. It's more or less a symbol of terrorism, fear and hatred. So the forces in MGS 1 would need a weapon that doesn't represent something that the AK is known for. Though as a futuristic gun, they could have use G36s which were just coming out in the early 90s.  [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:47, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
We may use a lot of European guns, but is the FAMAS one of them? No, it's not. And the excellence of the M4 isn't &amp;quot;yankee propoganda&amp;quot;, it's simple ''fact''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Spartan, just about every one of my friends who has served in the US military thinks the entire M16 series is crap compared to other  rifles that are available now, or what they could have used since it's inception. I myself do not look forward to its use considering a few of the other options. Is it a bad gun? No. Is it the best gun? No. Is it the ideal military weapon? Probably not. sure its light and fairly accurate, but it is also VERY delicate compared to other weapons and also quite complicated compared to say an AK or an M14; it's ammunition is also underpowered and ballistically inefficient. Always remember that military equipment is done by the LOWEST bidder. Whoever can supply a product that can perform A, B, and C for less than $X per unit wins. But your opinion is your own, and neither my input or anyone else's is likely to change that, the same as our opinion is unlikely to change from yours. M4 is your favorite, that's perfectly fine; I think they're fun to shoot but it wouldn't be my first choice in combat. Besides, it's a videogame about genetically engineered supersoldiers and battlemechs, with psychics and ghosts. =P [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Please sign your name, in fact, register with the site first off. I'd tell you, all my pals are Marines and they know how to deal with what they got. They've never had actual problems with the M16/M4 in combat and most of them went to Iraq and a couple are now in Afgan with their M4s. Sure, they said it's jammed once or twice, but mostly from misfeds because of the magazines. This is the weapon they trust their life would in combat. Would they like something better? Sure, if the government and the conservatives in the military would get off their asses and pick a newer rifle, but no where soon are they getting the ACR or HK416s. And these are the kinds of guys that aren't above getting their own personal magazines as well as hollow points and frangible bullets, then getting rid of them because they are not regulation. &lt;br /&gt;
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Lastly, yes this is a video game, but we're here to discuss about the guns of the game, not about the super soldiers, and battle mechs with psychics, and ghosts. You don't see anyone here talking about the weapon system on the Rex, do you? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:00, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I truly hope your friends don't get caught violating the Hague Convention. Yes my friends too have performed admirably with their M4s, as there isn't exactly any alternative. The point I was making in regards to mechs, ghosts and such is that considering the other lack of realism already established is it really THAT big of a deal that they chose an assault rifle that was a little bit different, and probably easier to render? To be honest with you I was pretty unfamiliar  with the FAMAS when MGS first came out and now i really like it and would love to take one for a test drive.[[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== FAMAS Version ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'd mistakenly noted in the article that the Genomes used the F2/G2 version, but after playing it again, I noticed the full-sized hand guard rather than the small trigger guard (characteristic of the F1/G1 version). My apologies. I've also removed my noting from the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:28, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mercer</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=271377</id>
		<title>Talk:Metal Gear Solid</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid&amp;diff=271377"/>
		<updated>2010-05-11T16:05:41Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mercer: /* US special forces with French FAMASs? */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== US special forces with French FAMASs? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My only gripe with this game is why the Japanese developers decided to give the so called US special forces you take on FAMASs. It just has always seemed kinda weird with me. There are so many better looking guns than these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 09:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That annoys me, too. It was used in the PS1 original supposedly only because it was &amp;quot;easy to render&amp;quot; graphics-wise. However, as far as Twin Snakes (which was developed in-house at Silicon Knights in Canada) goes, I would have preferred it to (a bit logically) be replaced by the M4A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
True, that. I recently came into possession of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' for the Nintendo Gamecube and was quite stunned to find that they hadn't updated the FAMAS to an M4 Carbine (or even a M16A3 assault rifle), considering that they bothered to put both the Beretta M9 and Heckler &amp;amp; Koch PSG1-T less-lethal tranquilizer weapons into the game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also saw somewhere that there was a Heckler &amp;amp; Koch submachine gun in the beta (possibly the MP5N) which was later cut from the release version. Unfortunately, I don't know the source off the top of my head. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:58, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Famas is just ugly gun. Period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the Japanese version, the SOCOM was replaced by the USP from MGS2. So they had to render that into the game. So why couldn't they put a gun actually used by US Forces? Lazy people these days... [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's damn right, Hoot471. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:12, 28 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Just chalk it up to people who don't know guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, according to the developers, they had been looking for unusual-looking and/or obscure weapons as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is not obscure because it's used by a major military, the French. Unusual doesn't describe it. They could have picked a more futuristic design [[Special:Contributions/69.51.184.172|69.51.184.172]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not knowing about guns isn't the problem, Excalibur01.&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is that the development team of ''Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes'' only thought of adding things (first-person shooting, less-than-lethal weapons, etcetera) to the game, instead of improving stuff that was already in it (dialogue, weaponry, etcetera).&lt;br /&gt;
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In fact, I remember quite clearly reading an article on IGN about how Hideo Kojima did extensive weapons research in preparation for developing the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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The only reason for the French FAMAS assault rifle being in the original ''Metal Gear Solid'' was because of graphical limitations and if they had tried rendering an AR-15 model assault rifle, it would have turned out unrecognisable and that is forgivable considering that the game was released in 1998.&lt;br /&gt;
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''The Twin Snakes'' however, is a different story. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 10:58, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Aside from the graphical limitations, I think from an ingame perspective it's possible that the Genome army, being a &amp;quot;black project,&amp;quot; needed a standard assault rifle that was less traceable than &amp;quot;All-American homegrown&amp;quot; M4s or M16 rifles. It could be the case that the FAMAS rifles seen in the game were just the most available and least traceable 5.56mm rifle at the time when the time came to approve the weapons for the Genome army, and 5.56mm ammunition is certainly available from many more sources than rifles are.&lt;br /&gt;
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Even so, it doesn't excuse how useless the gun is in Twin Snakes at penetrating body armour, which you can see in action here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrg4gpzBT-8] (granted, the player in the video is not using the FPV function to aim for headshots). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:22, 5 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Why all the FAMAS hate? I think it's a really cool rifle (my personal favorite) and very original to this game besides it's getting boring to see M4 this and M4 that in every freaking game out there. (no offence. M4A1 is still a decent gun) --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 14:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:M16s and M4s are used by so many nations all over the world (even at the time of MGS1's original PS1 release) that I doubt traceability would have been a problem, even for a black ops unit. I know it certainly wasn't back in the '60s when MACV-SOG units were launching covert raids into Laos and Cambodia armed with CAR-15s and XM177s, which weren't exactly commonplace like the M16/M4 platform is today. Compare the number of FAMAS users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS#Service] with the number of M4 users [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#Users] and you'll see my point that, if anything, the FAMAS is ''more'' traceable than the M4 alone, let alone the entire M16 family.&lt;br /&gt;
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:@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
:No one is &amp;quot;hating on&amp;quot; the FAMAS. As for &amp;quot;M4 this, M4 that in every game&amp;quot;, what else do you expect? The M4 is the standard by which every firearm of its class is judged. It's light, accurate, easy to maintain and operate, reliable, and highly modular. It's the epitome of what a military firearm should be. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:48, 25 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Heh, nice yankee propaganda :) I still think that AK is better (I'm sure a lot of people agree with this one) and it's even more reliable and easier to maintain than M4. But why all the bother? Americans use a lot of european guns and nobody's complaining? --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 04:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, I stand corrected on the FAMAS. I do, however, remember reading that during the development of MGS they wanted an assault rifle that looked futuristic in 1998, so they picked the FAMAS to that end. It's likely that they also did so since it was easier to render convincingly with the 3D technology of that day. I own a copy of the PS2 version of MGS2, and even that engine has problems with rendering an M4 convincingly. The round handguard ends up being diamond-shaped, the front sight (being a 2D plane with no thickness) is invisible when you look at it head-on, etc. So it's probable that the FAMAS was chosen for having far fewer curves, which are hard on a primitive engine's polygon limit. &lt;br /&gt;
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One thing needs to be reiterated though; the Genome Army are not a Special Forces or Black Ops unit--they are a black project, through and through. To my knowledge the Genome Soldiers don't have any field experience either, being raised only on virtual training. &lt;br /&gt;
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Besides, the MGS series seems to operate on a different timeline than ours, especially since in MGS4 the XM8 was formally adopted. Maybe in the MGS timeline Colt never let their rights to the M16/M4 family lapse. It could explain why in MGS4 so very few soldiers use M4s (only Old Snake and certain soldiers from &amp;quot;All-American&amp;quot; forces), and ''no one'' uses M16s. It's too bad that they didn't implement the FAMAS in MGS4 for old time's sake. The M4 maybe the &amp;quot;epitome&amp;quot; of a short-barrelled assault rifle, but it's a standard that can be met in other ways, otherwise we wouldn't see things like the G36C, the FN F2000, the SA80 series, the Steyr AUG, the FAMAS itself, etc.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I imagine of people in the MGS universe use M4s (that's surmountable to saying nobody uses EOTechs because they replaced Snake's 552 with an Aimpoint CompM2). Even the enemy contractors were originally armed with M4s [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/coletam/Misc%20Web/Military/MGS4PMC.jpg], which is probably the reason the US soldiers and Marines later in the game have XM8s, as a way of visually &amp;quot;separating&amp;quot; them from the contractors. Some of the dialogue regarding it was even left in when Drebin told Snake that the M4 Custom was &amp;quot;a favorite of the big PMCs&amp;quot; and flashbacks during the very first mission briefing even showed contractors with them. So the M4 is a lot more widespread than it appears in the final game. And who's this &amp;quot;certain soldier from the 'All-American' forces&amp;quot; you're talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I recall seeing a terrified trainee soldier on the Missouri in MGS4 pointing his M4 (sideways, for some reason) at the swarms of  Dwarf Gekko crawling up the ship's bridge. Still, my point on how graphically difficult it is to convincingly render a weapon with so many rounded surfaces like the M4 stands as the most probable theory as to why it wasn't used in MGS1. They make up for it in MGS2 though (if I ever get my PC port copy working again I'll post screenshots)--Seal Team 10, the Tanker Marines, and the Presidential Bodyguards all use M4s. &lt;br /&gt;
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I still think the relative lack of M4s/M16s in MGS4 (despite Drebin's quip) is a sign that Colt in the MGS timeline held onto their rights with that weapon series, and gave &amp;quot;preferential customer&amp;quot; status to the US forces, while making others pay through the nose to use those weapons, which is probably why FN has so much more market share in MGS4--the SCAR-H, P90, and Five-SeveN all make appearances among many more NPCs than the users of Colt products do. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That or the weapons developers for the game MGS4 wanted the most futuristic of weapons, meaning weapons that are either supposed to replace current standard rifles of today like the M4 or M16. With the P90s, it's always a gun that's for fictional special elite characters. The weird part in MGS4 is that Drebin said the M4 is the official carbine for the US army, but when later on when we see US forces swarm Liquid, they all had XM8s. &lt;br /&gt;
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And to SilentwarriorX, it isn't &amp;quot;yankee&amp;quot; propaganda. Some of the users on this site aren't even American. I will admit the AK is a reliable weapon to use, robust but even the AK has its limits when it comes to sighting targets and accuracy. I'd love to have an AK-47, but you don't see a lot of western military adopting anything similar to AKs. It's more or less a symbol of terrorism, fear and hatred. So the forces in MGS 1 would need a weapon that doesn't represent something that the AK is known for. Though as a futuristic gun, they could have use G36s which were just coming out in the early 90s.  [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:47, 10 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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@Silentwarrior&lt;br /&gt;
We may use a lot of European guns, but is the FAMAS one of them? No, it's not. And the excellence of the M4 isn't &amp;quot;yankee propoganda&amp;quot;, it's simple ''fact''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Spartan, just about every one of my friends who has served in the US military thinks the entire M16 series is crap compared to other  rifles that are available now, or what they could have used since it's inception. I myself do not look forward to its use considering a few of the other options. Is it a bad gun? No. Is it the best gun? No. Is it the ideal military weapon? Probably not. sure its light and fairly accurate, but it is also VERY delicate compared to other weapons and also quite complicated compared to say an AK or an M14; it's ammunition is also underpowered and ballistically inefficient. Always remember that military equipment is done by the LOWEST bidder. Whoever can supply a product that can perform A, B, and C for less than $X per unit wins. But your opinion is your own, and neither my input or anyone else's is likely to change that, the same as our opinion is unlikely to change from yours. M4 is your favorite, that's perfectly fine; I think they're fun to shoot but it wouldn't be my first choice in combat. Besides, it's a videogame about genetically engineered supersoldiers and battlemechs, with psychics and ghosts. =P&lt;br /&gt;
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Please sign your name, in fact, register with the site first off. I'd tell you, all my pals are Marines and they know how to deal with what they got. They've never had actual problems with the M16/M4 in combat and most of them went to Iraq and a couple are now in Afgan with their M4s. Sure, they said it's jammed once or twice, but mostly from misfeds because of the magazines. This is the weapon they trust their life would in combat. Would they like something better? Sure, if the government and the conservatives in the military would get off their asses and pick a newer rifle, but no where soon are they getting the ACR or HK416s. And these are the kinds of guys that aren't above getting their own personal magazines as well as hollow points and frangible bullets, then getting rid of them because they are not regulation. &lt;br /&gt;
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Lastly, yes this is a video game, but we're here to discuss about the guns of the game, not about the super soldiers, and battle mechs with psychics, and ghosts. You don't see anyone here talking about the weapon system on the Rex, do you? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:00, 11 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I truly hope your friends don't get caught violating the Hague Convention. Yes my friends too have performed admirably with their M4s, as there isn't exactly any alternative. The point I was making in regards to mechs, ghosts and such is that considering the other lack of realism already established is it really THAT big of a deal that they chose an assault rifle that was a little bit different, and probably easier to render? To be honest with you I was pretty unfamiliar  with the FAMAS when MGS first came out and now i really like it and would love to take one for a test drive.&lt;br /&gt;
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== FAMAS Version ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'd mistakenly noted in the article that the Genomes used the F2/G2 version, but after playing it again, I noticed the full-sized hand guard rather than the small trigger guard (characteristic of the F1/G1 version). My apologies. I've also removed my noting from the article. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:28, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Spartan198&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
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