Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Man with the Golden Gun

2017-04-19T14:56:30Z

Lastgunslinger: /* 4,2 mm bullet (would it even fire) */

[[Image:MANGG.jpg|thumb|none|300px|DVD Cover for ''The Man with the Golden Gun'']]
The scene in the beginning with the mobster's Browning always bothered me. Why does it have a suppressor but have un-suppressed sound effects, and are viewers supposed to believe that the Hi-Power has an unlimited magazine capacity? Oh, Hollywood...

Hey man, just chill and enjoy a classic Bond movie [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 05:03, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me or does the golden gun's barrel seem to have too large of a bore to be a 4.2 mm?[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]] 23:44, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

== Multiple Golden Guns ==

I'm guessing of the three:

[[Image:Mwtgg-gold4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Percussion cap version (metal barrel)]]
[[Image:Mwtgg-gold7.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Stunt gun (narrower barrel, doesn't look reinforced)]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:58, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

== Supressor crooked? ==

Am I imagining it or is the supressor not correctly attached? It looks like the front end of it is drooping. Or is it an optical illusion?[[User:Dudster32|Dudester32]] ([[User talk:Dudster32|talk]]) 12:36, 15 June 2015 (EDT)
[[Image:Mwtgg-fnhp4.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|]]

==XM16E1 and Colt New Service==
Is there any shot showing the receiver with the forward assist and partial fence? If not, this could just as easily (and more likely) be an M16/SP1. Also, is it just me or does that revolver look a bit small for a New Service? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 19:32, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

== 4,2 mm bullet (would it even fire)? ==

I am not an expert when it comes to ballistics.
And even I can see, that bullet is wider than 4,2 mm.
But I wonder, if the bullet isn't a little large compared to the casing?
I mean it's way longer than the casing. And this bullet is made of gold, which makes it pretty heavy.
So with a load that's comparable to that of some .25 or .32, would this large and heavy bullet even leave the barrel?

--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] ([[User talk:Lastgunslinger|talk]]) 10:56, 19 April 2017 (EDT)

Talk:The Man with the Golden Gun

2017-04-19T14:55:57Z

Lastgunslinger: /* 4,2 mm bullet (would it even fire) */ new section

[[Image:MANGG.jpg|thumb|none|300px|DVD Cover for ''The Man with the Golden Gun'']]
The scene in the beginning with the mobster's Browning always bothered me. Why does it have a suppressor but have un-suppressed sound effects, and are viewers supposed to believe that the Hi-Power has an unlimited magazine capacity? Oh, Hollywood...

Hey man, just chill and enjoy a classic Bond movie [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 05:03, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me or does the golden gun's barrel seem to have too large of a bore to be a 4.2 mm?[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]] 23:44, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

== Multiple Golden Guns ==

I'm guessing of the three:

[[Image:Mwtgg-gold4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Percussion cap version (metal barrel)]]
[[Image:Mwtgg-gold7.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Stunt gun (narrower barrel, doesn't look reinforced)]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:58, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

== Supressor crooked? ==

Am I imagining it or is the supressor not correctly attached? It looks like the front end of it is drooping. Or is it an optical illusion?[[User:Dudster32|Dudester32]] ([[User talk:Dudster32|talk]]) 12:36, 15 June 2015 (EDT)
[[Image:Mwtgg-fnhp4.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|]]

==XM16E1 and Colt New Service==
Is there any shot showing the receiver with the forward assist and partial fence? If not, this could just as easily (and more likely) be an M16/SP1. Also, is it just me or does that revolver look a bit small for a New Service? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 19:32, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

== 4,2 mm bullet (would it even fire) ==

I am not an expert when it comes to ballistics.
And even I can see, that bullet is wider than 4,2 mm.
But I wonder, if the bullet isn't a little large compared to the casing?
I mean it's way longer than the casing. And this bullet is made of gold, which makes it pretty heavy.
So with a load that's comparable to that of some .32, would this large and heavy bullet even leave the barrel?

Talk:Steyr GB

2012-06-02T19:01:39Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Steyr GB in books */

== Steyr GB in books ==

I know, this is a site for guns in movies and books got nothing to do with it, but if you're interested in the [[Steyr GB]], you've got to read the books about Jack Reacher by Lee Child.
This guy seems to like this underappreciated austrian pistol, because it appears 3 or 4 times throughout the series.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 14:01, 2 June 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Steyr GB

2012-06-02T19:01:07Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Steyr GB in books */ new section

== Steyr GB in books ==

I know, this is a site for guns in movies and books got nothing to do with, but if you're interested in the [[Steyr GB]], you've got to read the books about Jack Reacher by Lee Child.
This guy seems to like this underappreciated austrian pistol, because it appears 3 or 4 times throughout the series.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 14:01, 2 June 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Die Hard with a Vengeance

2012-04-11T09:45:42Z

Lastgunslinger: /* WOW */

I think that the revolver that McClane uses at the end is definitely not a Centennial Airweight. You can clearly see the external hammer. Centennial Airweights have internal hammers.

== CAR-15 ==

I'm no expert, but the "M16 Variant" looks around the length of a CAR-15. Can anybody tell if this is true?

== Safety Catch ==

There's a few things bothering me with the Mp5k's safety catch.

One, The Terrorist lets off a burst of ammo before being sliced in half.

Two, When Simon flicks the safety off after taking it from Zeus, It sounds like he racks the bolt back and forth.

Agreed about point two. I think the director/whoever was in charge of that believed it would be easier for the non gun-loving audience to recognize him doing something. Instead of just flicking it, they probably wanted something louder.

== sniper scope ==

to add some info...

the scope is actually a spotting scope (and not a riflescope) of either SCT (Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope) or MCT (Maksutov-Cassegrain Telescope) type.

the dead give-away is the black circle in the center of the objective (blue looking) lens that you see, as well as the large diameter of the scope - much larger than a riflescope diameter.

If this were a MCT then the black circle would be more reflective (like the blue reflection you see) since it would also be a lens. Since there does not seem to be a reflection, nor does it seem to allow light to pass through, my guess is that the black circle is the mount for the correcting plate, thus making this scope a SCT.

SCT and MCT spotting scopes are made commercially by such companies as Vixen, Orion, Celestron, and Meade. The size (diameter) varies, ranging from 50mm up to 120mm and beyond. My guess is that this is a 4 inch diameter scope with a straight eyepiece.

If you magnify the images and then change the contrast, you can see a reflection in the glass window of the door right next to him. This allows you to see more detail of the scope (additional knobs), but unfortunately you cannot see the name of the manufacturer of the scope.

Although it looks intimidating in the movie, using a spotting scope on a rifle is impractical. The assistant (Spotter) to the sniper is the one that uses a spotting scope, not the sniper himself.

== Alternate Ending gun ==

Anyone saw the alternate version of the movie ending? Where instead of the showdown in Canada with the choppers, McClane tracks down Simon Gruber to a Hungarian restaurant. Can anyone identify the pistol what McLane uses to hold Simon at gunpoint?

It looked like a Heckler & Koch P9S to me --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 21:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC).

== Model 36 or 60 ==

Is there any way to tell the difference between a nickel S&W Model 36 and a stainless Model 60? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 20:59, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

==WOW==
Can [[Bruce Willis]] please teach me how to hide a big ole' 92FS under a button down shirt?!?!?!?!?!?! I did like how they didn't just make the gun invisible, Bruce Willis was actually wearing it.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 17:28, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

That's a trick he was taught by Clint Eastwood, who was able to hide a Smith & Wesson Mod. 29 with a 6 1/2" barrel under these tight 70ies jackets.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 04:45, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

Death Wish 3

2010-09-14T09:39:52Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Wildey */

Death Wish 3

2010-09-14T09:39:01Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Wildey */

Talk:Face/Off

2010-08-09T22:33:25Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Nicolas Cage movies where he dies */

==Mirror Scene==
This was just a cool shot from the film I wanted to put here.
[[Image:FO-MirrorScene-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Archer/Troy fires a Gold Springfield Armory M1911-A1 while Troy/Archer fires a tutone SIG-Sauer P226 at each other through the mirror. When looking in the mirror, they see the face they are wearing, which is in reality their opponent. Very artistic.]]

==S&W 1911's==

You know ever since I saw this movie for the first time I've been trying to find a set of 1911A1's that look like these that are real functioning guns. I dont care what the price is I just would like to ask if anyone knows where I could find a replica. It doesn't have to be real gold only simulated. I think they would make an excellent conversation piece framed on the wall. If anyone knows where to find some similar to these please e-mail me at bhatt86@hotmail.com. Thanks!
::Just for the record, they are Springfield Armory, not Smith & Wesson. And the guns were likely custom built for the show, so I'm pretty sure the only way to get one is to study the screencaps and build one yourself. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:::With enough money, anything can be built without him having to do it himself. I personally would like replicas built out of actual gold. I'm willing to wait and also to pay handsomely for them, but it would be badassed. I also wasn't aware you could "build" guns (relative gun noob here). - Seefu
Tokyo Toys (one of their offshoots is WWiiguns.com--excellent replica guns, I have several) is offering a nice-looking replica of the gold Face/off 1911 for about $400--complete to the porting. looks beautiful. http://www.tokyohobby.net/western-arms-face-off-m1911-a1-gold-limited-edition-gas-blowback-model-gun.html -Brad

==deleted scenes==

there are some more shots of gns in a deleted scene of the raid on the apartment. Another PG shotgun, what looked like a glock, and extra shots of the ppk, etc.
:What's a PG shotgun? And maybe I didn't watch the deleted scene closely enough, since it appeared to have the same shots essentially as the original scene had. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Trademark overdone==
I understand that the use of Doves taking flight is a trademark of John Woo's (and one I rather enjoy), however I think he slightly overdid it before and during the gunbattle at the funeral. Beginning at the point Nicolas Cage walks on the beach with seaguls flying everywhere and continuing throughout the funeral and the resulting shootout indoors and outside there are birds on screen near constantly for ridiculous period of time. While this technique is usually used very well by Woo, I think this oversaturation kind of ruined the effect.

== When Caster Troy snipes... ==

Is it possible he only took one round with him, not figuring on needing another, or maybe he didn't have the heart to kill him after killing his son?
:It could possibly be that he only had one round, but I think Castor is too emotionless to care if he killed Archer's son. Personally, I think that Castor assumed that Archer would die from his wound and that it was necessary to get the hell away from the scene before someone saw him. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 21:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== new here ==

new to www.imfdb.org just want to say what a great forum =)

== Nicolas Cage movies where he dies ==

Is this the only movie where Nicolas Cage is killed off?? There doesn't appear to be any other movies I've watched where he dies.

SPOILERS!!!!!

There's Wicker Man, Kick-Ass, Bangkok Dangerous, World Trade Center, Astro Boy to name some [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

He doesn't die in World Trade Center. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 00:47, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

:oops [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

He dies in "Leaving Las Vegas" as well
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 22:33, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Assault on Precinct 13 (2005)

2010-01-13T10:01:59Z

Lastgunslinger:

I was going to upload [[The Quick and the Dead]] but I'll wait till tommorow so I don't steal your thunder. Good work so far. -GM

Finished, how does it look now?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 05:16, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

:Excellent work, I love the armorer specials. I find it kind of cool how Al gets to have these little cameos in movies. I'll have TQATD done tommorow. I just finished watching [[Hotel Rwanda]], damn that movie is depressing. I'll have that screencapped too soon. -GM

Thanks, and I can't wait to see your newest articles. Yea, I heard that's one thing Hotel Rawanda is infamous for, and want to know something else. A teacher in my school had her class watch that movie just before Christmas break, Wierd.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 06:02, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Sig Sauer P226 ==

Hmmm, this makes me wish I hadn't deleted the old picture of the two-tone P226. The one in the movie is a newer production P226 with a milled slide, whereas the one we have now is the older production model with the stamped slide.

I see what you mean, oh well. It shouldn't make too much of a difference, it's still the same gun overall.

:Yeah, I guess. Also, it's pretty rare to see the milled ones in movies. Even though the stamped-slide P226s have not been produced for over 10 years, most of the movies being made even today still use them, just because armorers don't rush out to replace something they already have in inventory when the difference between old and new versions amounts to minor design changes. That's also why you see older-model Taurus PT92s, Gen 2 Glocks, etc. in many movies.

:Also, seems like he filed down the top of the barrel a bit too much; it looks almost like it was ground straight into the chamber.

I see, that makes sense, and there's nothing like the classic versions. That's how they modify guns to fire Blanks? I'll have to look for that in other movies, and yea it looks like he did overdo the filing, it looks like a good amount of the top of the chamber is gone.

:Yeah, some pistols need to have the top of the barrel filed down in order to function reliably with blanks. Most of the P220 series do, and so do H&K USPs, I believe.

== M4A1 ==

''That's not an M4, its a Colt Commando of some type, look at the permanent carryhandle. [[User:AdAstra2009]]''

The M4 Carbine had an integral carrying handle, the M4A1 has a removable carrying handle.

:I dont know who wrote that, but you're way wrong. The ENTIRE M4 generation has removable hand rails[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

::You'r both wrong. M4s made in 1994 and 1995 were fitted with non-removable carry handles. After 1995, the Department of Defense asked Colt[[trademark symbol|<nowiki>™</nowiki>]] to outfit both the M4s AND the M4A1s with Picatinny rails. Today(As in, 2009) all M4s and M4A1s that are being issued to US Military and US Police have Removeble Carry Handles. I not sure about the AR-15s that are being sold at gun stores. I think we will need MPM on this one.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

:::My understanding (after doing some reading) is this: The original M4 that was purchased by the military was called the Model 777 in Colt's AR-15 catalog. It had an M16A2-style receiver (meaning, NO detachable carry handle) and it fired semi or burst, like the M16A2. The full-auto version of the Model 777 was the earlier Model 727, which was originally designed for the armed forces of the U.A.E. This is the gun that the DoD originally designated as simply "the M4 Carbine". However, around the time that the original M4 (the Model 777) was coming into service, Colt introduced the flat-top receivers with detachable carry handles. The DoD quickly decided that this feature was desirable and stopped buying the Model 777; they switched instead to buying the Model 920 (semi or burst) and the Model 921 (semi or auto), which are the guns that are known today as the "M4" and the "M4A1", respectively. But the Model 920 was still called "the M4" even though it had a different receiver style than the Model 777. So, basically, the military bought two different guns that were both given the designation "M4", even though they were different models with different receivers.

:::Also, I should point out that the USAF, who are extremely stingy when it comes to buying new small arms (any time we attempt to upgrade or standardize a new platform, they're the branch who bitch the loudest about the cost), initially didn't buy very many M4s or M4A1s at all. Instead, they simply upgraded some of their existing M16 carbines - including their XM177s (which they called GAU-5s), Model 653s, etc. by replacing the barrels with the M4-style stepped barrel. So, until about the early-2000s, it was possible to see carbines which had M4 barrels, but A2, A1, or even SP1-style receivers. Franken-carbines, in other words. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
:The USAF does bitch about everything. Why do they bitch about Small Arms anyway? I know they don't really need Small Arms but why bitch?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

::Because they'd rather spend the money on something else, like more B-2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

==I still prefer the 1976 version==

I know what the hell does that have to do with firearms. This remake had a great arsenal but I like the original version. Showing my age. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

== Girl knows how to handle a Tommy-Gun? ==
There are many films, in which an absolute beginner suddenly knows how to handle a gun.
That might be ok for DA-revolvers, but it gets dubious when it comes to pistols (especially SA-pistols) or even more complicated guns like machine-guns of all kind.
Here the little lady knows how to handle a Tommy-Gun instantly.

I never fired one myself, but I got my hands on a PPSch-41 a few years ago. That was somewhat different from other guns. First of, you've got to wind up these drum-magazines before loading the gun with them. Do we have to believe, the Tommy-Gun has been stored cocked and loaded for years in the evidence room?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the kind of guy, who always has to yell "unrealistic". That way, I could never ever enjoy movies like this one. And I really enjoyed tis one. And I know, the girl with the Tommy-Gun was meant as "comic relief". But I thing it was uncalled for and highly ridiculous.
What do you guys think?
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 09:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Assault on Precinct 13 (2005)

2010-01-13T09:57:17Z

Lastgunslinger:

I was going to upload [[The Quick and the Dead]] but I'll wait till tommorow so I don't steal your thunder. Good work so far. -GM

Finished, how does it look now?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 05:16, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

:Excellent work, I love the armorer specials. I find it kind of cool how Al gets to have these little cameos in movies. I'll have TQATD done tommorow. I just finished watching [[Hotel Rwanda]], damn that movie is depressing. I'll have that screencapped too soon. -GM

Thanks, and I can't wait to see your newest articles. Yea, I heard that's one thing Hotel Rawanda is infamous for, and want to know something else. A teacher in my school had her class watch that movie just before Christmas break, Wierd.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 06:02, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Sig Sauer P226 ==

Hmmm, this makes me wish I hadn't deleted the old picture of the two-tone P226. The one in the movie is a newer production P226 with a milled slide, whereas the one we have now is the older production model with the stamped slide.

I see what you mean, oh well. It shouldn't make too much of a difference, it's still the same gun overall.

:Yeah, I guess. Also, it's pretty rare to see the milled ones in movies. Even though the stamped-slide P226s have not been produced for over 10 years, most of the movies being made even today still use them, just because armorers don't rush out to replace something they already have in inventory when the difference between old and new versions amounts to minor design changes. That's also why you see older-model Taurus PT92s, Gen 2 Glocks, etc. in many movies.

:Also, seems like he filed down the top of the barrel a bit too much; it looks almost like it was ground straight into the chamber.

I see, that makes sense, and there's nothing like the classic versions. That's how they modify guns to fire Blanks? I'll have to look for that in other movies, and yea it looks like he did overdo the filing, it looks like a good amount of the top of the chamber is gone.

:Yeah, some pistols need to have the top of the barrel filed down in order to function reliably with blanks. Most of the P220 series do, and so do H&K USPs, I believe.

== M4A1 ==

''That's not an M4, its a Colt Commando of some type, look at the permanent carryhandle. [[User:AdAstra2009]]''

The M4 Carbine had an integral carrying handle, the M4A1 has a removable carrying handle.

:I dont know who wrote that, but you're way wrong. The ENTIRE M4 generation has removable hand rails[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

::You'r both wrong. M4s made in 1994 and 1995 were fitted with non-removable carry handles. After 1995, the Department of Defense asked Colt[[trademark symbol|<nowiki>™</nowiki>]] to outfit both the M4s AND the M4A1s with Picatinny rails. Today(As in, 2009) all M4s and M4A1s that are being issued to US Military and US Police have Removeble Carry Handles. I not sure about the AR-15s that are being sold at gun stores. I think we will need MPM on this one.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

:::My understanding (after doing some reading) is this: The original M4 that was purchased by the military was called the Model 777 in Colt's AR-15 catalog. It had an M16A2-style receiver (meaning, NO detachable carry handle) and it fired semi or burst, like the M16A2. The full-auto version of the Model 777 was the earlier Model 727, which was originally designed for the armed forces of the U.A.E. This is the gun that the DoD originally designated as simply "the M4 Carbine". However, around the time that the original M4 (the Model 777) was coming into service, Colt introduced the flat-top receivers with detachable carry handles. The DoD quickly decided that this feature was desirable and stopped buying the Model 777; they switched instead to buying the Model 920 (semi or burst) and the Model 921 (semi or auto), which are the guns that are known today as the "M4" and the "M4A1", respectively. But the Model 920 was still called "the M4" even though it had a different receiver style than the Model 777. So, basically, the military bought two different guns that were both given the designation "M4", even though they were different models with different receivers.

:::Also, I should point out that the USAF, who are extremely stingy when it comes to buying new small arms (any time we attempt to upgrade or standardize a new platform, they're the branch who bitch the loudest about the cost), initially didn't buy very many M4s or M4A1s at all. Instead, they simply upgraded some of their existing M16 carbines - including their XM177s (which they called GAU-5s), Model 653s, etc. by replacing the barrels with the M4-style stepped barrel. So, until about the early-2000s, it was possible to see carbines which had M4 barrels, but A2, A1, or even SP1-style receivers. Franken-carbines, in other words. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
:The USAF does bitch about everything. Why do they bitch about Small Arms anyway? I know they don't really need Small Arms but why bitch?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

::Because they'd rather spend the money on something else, like more B-2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

==I still prefer the 1976 version==

I know what the hell does that have to do with firearms. This remake had a great arsenal but I like the original version. Showing my age. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

== Girl knows how to handle a Tommy-Gun? ==
There are many films, in which an absolute beginner suddenly knows how to handle a gun.
That might be ok for DA-revolvers, but it gets dubious when it comes to pistols (especially SA-pistols) or even more complicated guns like machine-guns of all kind.
Here the little lady knows how to handle a Tommy-Gun instantly.

I never fired one myself, but I got my hands on a PPSch-41 a few years ago. That was somewhat different from other guns. First of, you've got to wind up these drum-magazines before loading the gun with them. Do we have to believe, the Tommy-Gun has been stored loaded and ready to fire for years in the evidence room?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the kind of guy, who always has to yell "unrealistic". That way, I could never ever enjoy movies like this one. And I really enjoyed tis one. And I know, the girl with the Tommy-Gun was meant as "comic relief". But I thing it was uncalled for and highly ridiculous.
What do you guys think?
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 09:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Marathon Man

2010-01-06T21:28:58Z

Lastgunslinger:

Talk:Heat

2009-12-05T07:49:53Z

Lastgunslinger: /* KP90 */

==Views==

It's amazing we've reached nearly 80,000 views for this page. I remember how happy we were when it hit 50,000...which doesn't seem like it was all that long ago. Probably won't be much longer before we hit 100,000. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Over 130,000 now. Crazy. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Has anyone seen this?==

http://fateoflegions.blogspot.com/2008/06/movie-guns-x.html

I'm just curious because although his list isn't as thorough as ours, he seems to have some very high-quality screenshots which look way better than those on my DVD. I especially like the screenshot of Trejo's Norinco AK, which shows the barrel and front sight in better detail. Blu Ray, perhaps?

: The clearer shots already disproved one of my own recollections and I will fix it. I could have sworn that I saw M16A1 uppers mounted onto SP1 lowers on the set. (it was fourteen years ago!) But the clearer BLURAY shots show Wes Studi's rifle to be an M16A1 lower, not the SP1 lower I thought it was. Fooey! I pulled one of those Franken-guns from the inventory (though I can't be sure if that gun ever was in HEAT) and photographed it for nothing. I will change it back. As for this guy's list, he has much clearer High Def shots, but his information isn't nearly as accurate as IMFDB's page. [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

:: ''I always used to think it was a continuity error...the first shot (where he's firing at the car) clearly shows a gun with a mil-spec A1-style receiver, but it does look like an SP1 lower in the next scene, right before he shoots Kilmer. If it weren't for the Blu Ray shots, I would have continued to think this way.''

:''The guy thought the 733s in the film were M4A3s just because of the DVD title sequence. Pretty funny. I wish I had thought to nab more shots, many of the ones he took were ones I didn't bother because I thought the ones we had were good enough. Should have followed my gut. His page is a little more complete but less correct, as far as I'm concerned.-GM''
::''There's also the phenomenon of having '''too many screen caps''', something I'm seeing on some pages (look at Dogs of War, the changes that aren't mine.). I know that some guys get all excited about their ability to post screen caps, but having literally DOZENS of images of the same guns is really '''beating a dead horse''' and makes the page cumbersome and annoying to look at. The last thing I want are to have IMFDB movie pages resembling people's MYSPACE pages ... cluttered, hard to navigate and generally irritating. So far I think your ratio of 'useful' images is just fine. These other guys don't know when there is '''too much of a good thing'''. ''
::''Also IMFDB has the advantage of multiple users checking and re-checking the pages. Sure some of the pages have work to do, but they will eventually be 100% done. '' [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

::What is this so called M4A3? I've never heard of it. So after the A1, there's an A2 and an A3 as well? Are we talking about what Colt makes or what Bushmaster makes? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
:::No such variant exists. Someone mistook another Colt variant I guess and soon it spread around as improper fact. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::I see. Well I can somewhat understand some people when they look at AR-15 type weapons as the same rifle because they all share the same basic design. I used to look and see every shorty M16 variant as an M4 before I knew more about the M4 and also used to not know that the M4 is the burst verison and the A1 is auto with the removable carrying handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

:Hey, guys, there is no Blu-Ray of Heat yet, unfortunately.
:UPDATE ON DAT ISSUE: Yes there is, now. By the way, above is me as well.-protoAuthor 19:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

==Bosko ([[Ted Levine]])==
The first casualty of the bank robbery gun battle. What type of gun was he using? [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 03:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:The rent-a-cop with the ankle holster? Or out in the street? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 15:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

::Out in the street. I though it was a G36K or something but I can't be sure. [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 02:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:::''I know this is kind of an old comment, but the G36 series wasn't around when the movie was filmed (1994-95), and it wouldn't have been imported to the U.S. until 1998, about two years after it entered service with the ''Bundeswehr''. Anyway, Bosko uses one of the M16A1s with A2 handguards that are used by most of the other detectives in the shootout, including Detective Casals.''

== M4 ==

During the van rubbery DiNero and Killmer used M4s.

:No, they used Colt Model 733s. - [[user:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]
:Is a ''"rubbery"'' something like a ''"shrubbery"''? And who is ''DiNEro'' ("Money" in spanish) and ''KILLmer''? Just kidding LOL!~ ;) - [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Help! ==

Someone fucked up the pictures with Â letters, i fixed that. Now, some of the pictures don't show for some reason. - [[User:Flying Dane]]

== Fixed ==

It's okay, I fixed them. They had some long spaces in them. Alienqueen11.

== MoviePropMaster2008 edit ==

I deleted the MoviePropMaster2008 edit because of it's non-encyclopedic tone. If discussions about a certain gun in the article are to be made, I think it should be done here in the discussion section. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 23:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:Well, that's fine, but then at the very least, you should have the courtesy to copy and paste the comments into this section rather than deleting them completely, as I have done here.

Alright. I'll be sure to do that in the future. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 19:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== Conversation on the FNC ==

MP2008 had a really good conversation going about which variant of FNC is carried by Vincent in this movie. I have now revived it for this section:

: Well, you've been very busy, [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]], though you're making an entirely educated guess (not a bad one) The 70-30 is a Para length barrel semi auto FNC designed for Law Enforcement use and sale only , so that would be a good guess. However, The FNCs on the set WERE full auto (I was there), but Director Michael Mann directed Al Pacino to fire semi auto only (which is pretty cool since police should NOT go full auto on street full of civilians). From what I remember, Pacino's gun was a pre-1985 American imported FNC 223 rem Sporter that was converted and had the barrel chopped WAY down to mimic the Para rifles and had a M16A1 style birdcage flash hider installed (see pic) by the movie armorers. FN imported American shorter FNC guns 'called' the para rifle, but the American barrels were several inches longer than the one seen in the movie, so this one was chopped down to look more like the European Para Models of the FNC.

[[Image:HEAT FNC Short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pacino with a chopped down FNC rifle - note the M16A1 style birdcage flash hider, the original FNCs used Belgian FN FAL style flash hiders and the Para Models had an ultra short version of the same Belgian design.]]

:Harry Lu was the lead armorer (same guy who just did Rambo (2008)), but he's the head coordinator. There were a LOT of trainers and gun handlers on location - it was a big shoot with lots of actors/stuntmen handling live weapons. Lu, like most armorers, acquired the guns from rental houses. At the beginning of the filming of the Street battle, the FNCs were provided by Mike Papac of Cinema Weaponry, but the filming went a lot longer than anticipated, and rifles apparently were swapped out with guns provided by Syd Stembridge of Stembridge Gun Rentals of Glendale (according to everyone's recollection), it's been almost 14 years since that shoot so everyone is working from memory. I too must check it for sure. What I remember and what Mike or Syd or Harry tell me may differ so I will try to get a pic of Pacino's exact gun or at least get the exact model and make info. ...[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

How do you get images onto imfdb i am really stumped

:''Use "Upload File" under the "Toolbox" section (visible on the left menu, below "Search"). To actually display images in an article, copy and paste some of the code from any article of your choice (you can use the code that I used on this page to display the image of Pacino with the FNC, above).''

::I don't remember what I said to which MPM replied. Anyone remember? [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Gonna fix my own pics==
Will probably be replacing the pic I uploaded of the Colt 733 since mine is actually an M16A1 with a Colt Sporter Carbine top, chopped down to resemble a 733. I am trying to get a REAL (marked) 733 that hasn't been altered by a gunsmith (that's pretty hard in this town). Too many of the guns are outfitted with outlandish RIS rails, lasers, scope mounts, and they're nearly unrecognizable. And if I'm borrowing someone else's gun to snap pics of I don't want to have to completely rebuild their gun. ;) Just giving everyone a heads up. (MPM2008)
:Is that why these guns have A2 recievers and yours has an A1? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==New pics==
How does our number 1 page look now that I added some extra shots? I'm quite proud of my Norinco Type 56-1 pic. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Comment regarding the first shot of the FN FNC section.==
The screencap you have would appear to show no one but civilians in Vincent's line of fire. However, the shots immediately before show Vincent and his soon-to-be-deceased partner coming under fire from Shirelis as he hops into the getaway car. Considering that most no one short of a robot's going to have enough wherewithal to know when to stop firing THAT quickly, it can be reasonably assumed that Vincent still believed he had a good bead. I wouldn't slight him for that one. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

== Discussion of "Fragmentation" ==

Hello.

I noticed a over enthiusiastic, but inccorect passage regarding the secondary wounding mechanism of "fragmentation" in the Colt 733 article, and editted it appropriately.

Fragmentation is well documented to be a function of velocity. While certain rounds can fragment at lower velocities (ie, MK262 Mod 0/Mod 1, Nosler OTM, etc) it remains a constant that a high velocity = higher chance of fragmentation. As a result, the statement that rounds fired from the 733 fragment violently, similiar to an "explosion" is completely false.

As is documented in reports by Dr. Martin L. Fackler, and in testing, the reliable fragmentation threshold for common military 5.56 rounds (Vietnam era 55 grain M-193 and modern green tip 62 grain M-855) is 2700 feet per second. The M733 with it's 10.7" barrel will produce velocities in the low 2600 range at the muzzle (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/john.ppt#3, a US SOCOM report concerning the modern MK 18, 10.5" barreled grandchild of the M733) , and as such, will not provide very good fragmentation at distances beyond punching range.

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_2700.html

==FNC rifle update==
I changed the entry for the FNC rifle. I spoke to all of the armorers on set on this film and everyone says that the rifle was a full auto FNC (imported in the early 1980s) that was chopped and fired semi only at the behest of Director Mann. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

==1911 & clones handguns==
The handgun seen on the SISs officier near the end seems to be an LA Vickers Custom, based on the Springfield Loaded pistol, with an extended magwell (you can clearly see the extension on the pistol). The LA Vickers Custom was one of the 1911 handguns delivered by Property Division to the LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom II was selected as standard issue for the LAPD (and later the Kimber SIS for the SIS officers)

:It's possible, but I dunno if you can assume that. It's always a bad idea to assume that just because a certain law enforcement agency/unit or military uses a particular gun in real life, the exact same weapon is being used in a particular movie. There are a lot of movies that depict NYPD officers using Glock 17s instead of 19s, or that depict Secret Service Agents using SIG-Sauer P226s instead of P228s/P229s, for instance. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Yeah sure, but it looks like they at least tried to replicate it. Well i think we can say its a Government pistol with a magwell extension.

==Empty P220 anyone==
During the ending section, where Neil shots Trejo, Van Zant and Waingro, then shoots at Hannah, he fires a total of 8 rounds from his P220. Now correct me if i'm wrong, but a P220 carries an 8 round mag of .45 ACP rounds, so when Neil is lying in wait for Hannah just before the end, wouldn't he be empty? That is, of course, if he never reloaded.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
:Why wouldn't he have reloaded?
::Perhaps he had 1 round in the chamber, plus the 8-round magazine. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::True, but that would still only warrant him one more shot.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

==Car Chase==
It's funny: I was just on the street in downtown L.A. today where they filmed the shootout in this movie between the LAPD and McCauley's gang. Remember the part where McCauley, Cheritto, and Shiherlis got in the getaway car and drove off only to be stopped by a police roadblock? They made that sequence seem longer than it really would've been in reality. When I was on Fifth Street today, I looked, thought about it, and realized: they drove roughly one block before stopping, but it seemed like a much greater distance in the film. Just wanted to point that out. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Well, what can I say...you've stumbled upon one of the nuances of direction. Depending on editing and filming, a scene like that can appear to take place over a longer distance than it actually does. Even though Mann might have only been able to get the city to close down one or two blocks for filming (which, when you think about it, makes perfect sense), they can still make the scale of the battle feel larger and more epic with good direction. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh yeah, its still a great scene. In my opinion, I think it is one of the greatest movie gunbattles ever. It reminds me of the escalator shootout at Grand Central Station in ''[[Carlito's Way]]''. It kept going for a really long time because it was a very epic gunfight. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

==Hanna's Guns==
I was also just thinking about this: the filmmakers got most of the LAPD's weapons right. Patrol Officers carry Beretta's and Remington's (of course I don't think the LAPD used Mossbergs, but whatever. Maybe they did, idk), SWAT carries 1911's, MP5s, etc. You get the point. But what I found really interesting was Hanna's choice of weapons. A Colt Officer's ACP with ivory grips and an FN FNC. Now those are weapons I've never heard of any American police department using. Anyways, I just thought that was kinda odd. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree but on the other hand, I think, plot-wise or character-wise Hanna's choice makes sense.
Maybe Hanna's guns were chosen for dramatic reasons, to show, how much a loner he was. You know, he's not playing by the rules, so he doesn't use the same guns as the rest of the team. And since he's the best cop ever, of course he's allowed to carry any gun he wants. Something like that. There are many movies in which the hero-cops carry stranger guns (Remember Sam Elliott playing a NY-cop with a .45 Winchester Magnum LAR Grizzly Pistol?).
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 07:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

==KP90==
:I do not think that Cheritto would be the kind of guy who would use this sort of pistol over something better like a Hi-Power or M1911. He seems like a fellow "Gun Guy", who would not be caught dead with such a crappy sidearm-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

What makes the KP90 so "crappy"?
I´ve shot a few rounds with a P89 some years ago. Can't say, it was a bad gun.

BTW I´ve always been under the impression, there are no really bad guns. Only bad shots.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 13:38, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

:It doesn't matter how good a shot you are if your pistol falls apart when you fire it-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

And the KP90 tends to "fall apart"? Never heard of that. Any experiences?
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 07:49, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

== Chuck Adamson. The real life inspiration for Vincent Hanna.==
[[Image:St46.png|thumb|350px|none|([[Chuck Adamson]]) as Barry Dorgan in blue blazer in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''. Adamson was the real life inspiration for the character Vincent Hanna in ''[[Heat]]''.]]
He retired as a Lt. with the Chicago PD. He was the guy that Micheal Mann modeled Vincent Hanna after. He was a technical advisor on ''[[Heat]]'' and I believe the televison series ''[[Crime Story]]'' which was also produced by Mann.Chuck Adamson passed away on 02/22/2008. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

== Duct tape? ==

At the beginning, I see DeNiro's Colt Model 654 with duct tape on the handguard. Is there a purpose for it? Because this has always bothered me when I rewatch the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
: I don't know this for sure, but I would guess that it's to either make damn sure there are no fingerprints, or help it burn with that incendiary, or help with gripping the gun some way, or just look cool. Knowing Michael Mann, it's probably one of the former three, rather than the latter, and I'm guessing mostly the grip one.-protoAuthor 19:27, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
::Well, we can rule out the first option because De Niro is wearing gloves. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 21:39, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
::I thought the duct tape was attaching a stop watch to the rifle, could be wrong though. -Toadvine

== Trivia ==

Kind of cinematic/firearms related but I remember seeing a movie in the 1980's called "[[L.A. Takedown]]" and when I saw ''[[Heat]]'' I thought they had ripped off the movie. Then I read an article which confirmed Mann had made both and had considered the former a "dress rehearsal" for the latter. Anyways, I remember in ''"Takedown"'' the lead actor in the movie used a [[Franchi SPAS-15]] in the final shootout proving, at least in my opinion, Mann always managed to make the weapons in his productions as exotic as the actors in them. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:Well maybe for LA Takedown, but in his other movies from Heat, Collateral, Miami Vice, and Public Enemies, the weapons weren't really "exotic". Maybe the SIG 552 used in Miami Vice, but all other guns since Heat were pretty normal. To me, it's the style of combat that is shown in Mann's movies that catches your eyes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:01, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

::Actually I should have said Mann delivers a little more variety in his flicks, television shows. With most "standard" police/crime dramas they have the usual firearms (Glocks, Berettas, AR-15 clones of some sort) whereas Mann adds things like the Strayer-Voigt Tiki in [[Miami Vice]], the FNC in [[Heat]], that sort of thing. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 21:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Hanna also used a nickel plated [[SIG-Sauer P226]] in "LA Takedown", further proving your point. I know someone using a SIG isn't that uncommon nowadays, but it was rare back in 1989. At that time, only ''[[Rambo: First Blood Part II]]'' and ''[[Robocop]]'' featured the 226. And this was the first time that a nickel model was used. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 05:43, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

==The new pic that Ben41 uploaded==
With the supposed M16A1 with A2 handguards. that looks like a Heavy barrel, so it would NOT be an A1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:23, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

So it's an actual A2? Should it be changed?--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
:How can it be an M16A2? It has an M16A1 receiver.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
::Huh? The only difference between an A1 and A2 lower receiver (other than the 3 round burst) is that the back end of the A2 receiver is slightly fatter to resist cracking the ring that holds the rear buffer tube. How can you tell it's an A1 lower? I have to HOLD the two together in person in order to see the difference. Now if it's an SP1 lower, then that can be seen from a distance. If it is an SP1 lower (aka original M16 slab side) then an AR15 Heavy barreled upper receiver was installed on it. Either way, it's a franken gun and should be described in as much detail as possible. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:28, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
:::It's a franken gun. We all know that. But we can't call it an M16A2 because of the lower receiver. I'm talking about the whole receiver here. The A1 lower and the A2 lower are almost the same thing. Except for the grip if you can say that the grip is part of the receiver. But the uppers are very different. I can tell the difference between the M16A2 and the M16 in Heat because of the upper receiver. The M16A2 upper has an Brass defletor and an different rear sight while the M16A1 upper has no deflector and a different sight. Of course I don't really know if the barrel is part of the upper receiver or if it can be removed. I also don't know if the sights can be separeted from the A1 or the A2 receiver, though.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

==Video Game==
:I hope it actually gets made [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0803002/]

:I don't know. Movie games tend to suck. It hasn't had a really good track record [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Lethal Weapon 2

2009-11-30T19:31:50Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Choice of backup Gun */

On the cover it appears he is using the extended slide release model from the first film (the shot is reversed). - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Choice of backup Gun ==
I praise Murtaugh's choice of the fine Smith 5906, but why he uses that as his backup gun and the old .38 revolver as his main weapon is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 06:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Two reasons i can see. First the model 19 is .357 magnum. And secondly, since Murtaugh is an older cop he was most definitely trained with a revolver so he would be more comfortable, and more accurate with the piece he's carried most of his career.

you do make a point there, but I'd still rather have 15 rounds of 9mm then 6 of .357 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

IMO Murtaugh's choice is a little odd.
Most people would use something, that is more or less a smaller version of the main weapon.
A S&W snubnose (Model 36, 38 or similiar) would make sense.
Or a model 19 with the shorter barrel, since Murtaugh doesn't seem to care about the weight of a backup gun.
But of course, to carry a fullsize pistol with 15 rounds as a "backup" is kind of cool, lethal-weapon-wise.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 19:30, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Lethal Weapon 2

2009-11-30T19:30:10Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Choice of backup Gun */

On the cover it appears he is using the extended slide release model from the first film (the shot is reversed). - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Choice of backup Gun ==
I praise Murtaugh's choice of the fine Smith 5906, but why he uses that as his backup gun and the old .38 revolver as his main weapon is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 06:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Two reasons i can see. First the model 19 is .357 magnum. And secondly, since Murtaugh is an older cop he was most definitely trained with a revolver so he would be more comfortable, and more accurate with the piece he's carried most of his career.

you do make a point there, but I'd still rather have 15 rounds of 9mm then 6 of .357 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

IMO Murtaugh's choice is a little odd.
Most people would use something, that is more or less a smaller version of the main weapon.
A S&W snubnose (Model 36 or similiar) would make sense.
Or a model 19 with the shorter barrel, since Murtaugh doesn't seem to care about the weight of a backup gun.
But of course, to carry a fullsize pistol with 15 rounds as a "backup" is kind of cool, lethal-weapon-wise.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 19:30, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Heat

2009-11-01T07:21:52Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Hanna's Guns */

==Views==

It's amazing we've reached nearly 80,000 views for this page. I remember how happy we were when it hit 50,000...which doesn't seem like it was all that long ago. Probably won't be much longer before we hit 100,000. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Over 130,000 now. Crazy. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Has anyone seen this?==

http://fateoflegions.blogspot.com/2008/06/movie-guns-x.html

I'm just curious because although his list isn't as thorough as ours, he seems to have some very high-quality screenshots which look way better than those on my DVD. I especially like the screenshot of Trejo's Norinco AK, which shows the barrel and front sight in better detail. Blu Ray, perhaps?

: The clearer shots already disproved one of my own recollections and I will fix it. I could have sworn that I saw M16A1 uppers mounted onto SP1 lowers on the set. (it was fourteen years ago!) But the clearer BLURAY shots show Wes Studi's rifle to be an M16A1 lower, not the SP1 lower I thought it was. Fooey! I pulled one of those Franken-guns from the inventory (though I can't be sure if that gun ever was in HEAT) and photographed it for nothing. I will change it back. As for this guy's list, he has much clearer High Def shots, but his information isn't nearly as accurate as IMFDB's page. [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

:: ''I always used to think it was a continuity error...the first shot (where he's firing at the car) clearly shows a gun with a mil-spec A1-style receiver, but it does look like an SP1 lower in the next scene, right before he shoots Kilmer. If it weren't for the Blu Ray shots, I would have continued to think this way.''

:''The guy thought the 733s in the film were M4A3s just because of the DVD title sequence. Pretty funny. I wish I had thought to nab more shots, many of the ones he took were ones I didn't bother because I thought the ones we had were good enough. Should have followed my gut. His page is a little more complete but less correct, as far as I'm concerned.-GM''
::''There's also the phenomenon of having '''too many screen caps''', something I'm seeing on some pages (look at Dogs of War, the changes that aren't mine.). I know that some guys get all excited about their ability to post screen caps, but having literally DOZENS of images of the same guns is really '''beating a dead horse''' and makes the page cumbersome and annoying to look at. The last thing I want are to have IMFDB movie pages resembling people's MYSPACE pages ... cluttered, hard to navigate and generally irritating. So far I think your ratio of 'useful' images is just fine. These other guys don't know when there is '''too much of a good thing'''. ''
::''Also IMFDB has the advantage of multiple users checking and re-checking the pages. Sure some of the pages have work to do, but they will eventually be 100% done. '' [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

::What is this so called M4A3? I've never heard of it. So after the A1, there's an A2 and an A3 as well? Are we talking about what Colt makes or what Bushmaster makes? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
:::No such variant exists. Someone mistook another Colt variant I guess and soon it spread around as improper fact. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::I see. Well I can somewhat understand some people when they look at AR-15 type weapons as the same rifle because they all share the same basic design. I used to look and see every shorty M16 variant as an M4 before I knew more about the M4 and also used to not know that the M4 is the burst verison and the A1 is auto with the removable carrying handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

:Hey, guys, there is no Blu-Ray of Heat yet, unfortunately.
:UPDATE ON DAT ISSUE: Yes there is, now. By the way, above is me as well.-protoAuthor 19:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

==Bosko ([[Ted Levine]])==
The first casualty of the bank robbery gun battle. What type of gun was he using? [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 03:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:The rent-a-cop with the ankle holster? Or out in the street? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 15:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

::Out in the street. I though it was a G36K or something but I can't be sure. [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 02:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:::''I know this is kind of an old comment, but the G36 series wasn't around when the movie was filmed (1994-95), and it wouldn't have been imported to the U.S. until 1998, about two years after it entered service with the ''Bundeswehr''. Anyway, Bosko uses one of the M16A1s with A2 handguards that are used by most of the other detectives in the shootout, including Detective Casals.''

== M4 ==

During the van rubbery DiNero and Killmer used M4s.

:No, they used Colt Model 733s. - [[user:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]
:Is a ''"rubbery"'' something like a ''"shrubbery"''? And who is ''DiNEro'' ("Money" in spanish) and ''KILLmer''? Just kidding LOL!~ ;) - [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Help! ==

Someone fucked up the pictures with Â letters, i fixed that. Now, some of the pictures don't show for some reason. - [[User:Flying Dane]]

== Fixed ==

It's okay, I fixed them. They had some long spaces in them. Alienqueen11.

== MoviePropMaster2008 edit ==

I deleted the MoviePropMaster2008 edit because of it's non-encyclopedic tone. If discussions about a certain gun in the article are to be made, I think it should be done here in the discussion section. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 23:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:Well, that's fine, but then at the very least, you should have the courtesy to copy and paste the comments into this section rather than deleting them completely, as I have done here.

Alright. I'll be sure to do that in the future. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 19:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== Conversation on the FNC ==

MP2008 had a really good conversation going about which variant of FNC is carried by Vincent in this movie. I have now revived it for this section:

: Well, you've been very busy, [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]], though you're making an entirely educated guess (not a bad one) The 70-30 is a Para length barrel semi auto FNC designed for Law Enforcement use and sale only , so that would be a good guess. However, The FNCs on the set WERE full auto (I was there), but Director Michael Mann directed Al Pacino to fire semi auto only (which is pretty cool since police should NOT go full auto on street full of civilians). From what I remember, Pacino's gun was a pre-1985 American imported FNC 223 rem Sporter that was converted and had the barrel chopped WAY down to mimic the Para rifles and had a M16A1 style birdcage flash hider installed (see pic) by the movie armorers. FN imported American shorter FNC guns 'called' the para rifle, but the American barrels were several inches longer than the one seen in the movie, so this one was chopped down to look more like the European Para Models of the FNC.

[[Image:HEAT FNC Short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pacino with a chopped down FNC rifle - note the M16A1 style birdcage flash hider, the original FNCs used Belgian FN FAL style flash hiders and the Para Models had an ultra short version of the same Belgian design.]]

:Harry Lu was the lead armorer (same guy who just did Rambo (2008)), but he's the head coordinator. There were a LOT of trainers and gun handlers on location - it was a big shoot with lots of actors/stuntmen handling live weapons. Lu, like most armorers, acquired the guns from rental houses. At the beginning of the filming of the Street battle, the FNCs were provided by Mike Papac of Cinema Weaponry, but the filming went a lot longer than anticipated, and rifles apparently were swapped out with guns provided by Syd Stembridge of Stembridge Gun Rentals of Glendale (according to everyone's recollection), it's been almost 14 years since that shoot so everyone is working from memory. I too must check it for sure. What I remember and what Mike or Syd or Harry tell me may differ so I will try to get a pic of Pacino's exact gun or at least get the exact model and make info. ...[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

How do you get images onto imfdb i am really stumped

:''Use "Upload File" under the "Toolbox" section (visible on the left menu, below "Search"). To actually display images in an article, copy and paste some of the code from any article of your choice (you can use the code that I used on this page to display the image of Pacino with the FNC, above).''

::I don't remember what I said to which MPM replied. Anyone remember? [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Gonna fix my own pics==
Will probably be replacing the pic I uploaded of the Colt 733 since mine is actually an M16A1 with a Colt Sporter Carbine top, chopped down to resemble a 733. I am trying to get a REAL (marked) 733 that hasn't been altered by a gunsmith (that's pretty hard in this town). Too many of the guns are outfitted with outlandish RIS rails, lasers, scope mounts, and they're nearly unrecognizable. And if I'm borrowing someone else's gun to snap pics of I don't want to have to completely rebuild their gun. ;) Just giving everyone a heads up. (MPM2008)
:Is that why these guns have A2 recievers and yours has an A1? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==New pics==
How does our number 1 page look now that I added some extra shots? I'm quite proud of my Norinco Type 56-1 pic. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Comment regarding the first shot of the FN FNC section.==
The screencap you have would appear to show no one but civilians in Vincent's line of fire. However, the shots immediately before show Vincent and his soon-to-be-deceased partner coming under fire from Shirelis as he hops into the getaway car. Considering that most no one short of a robot's going to have enough wherewithal to know when to stop firing THAT quickly, it can be reasonably assumed that Vincent still believed he had a good bead. I wouldn't slight him for that one. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

== Discussion of "Fragmentation" ==

Hello.

I noticed a over enthiusiastic, but inccorect passage regarding the secondary wounding mechanism of "fragmentation" in the Colt 733 article, and editted it appropriately.

Fragmentation is well documented to be a function of velocity. While certain rounds can fragment at lower velocities (ie, MK262 Mod 0/Mod 1, Nosler OTM, etc) it remains a constant that a high velocity = higher chance of fragmentation. As a result, the statement that rounds fired from the 733 fragment violently, similiar to an "explosion" is completely false.

As is documented in reports by Dr. Martin L. Fackler, and in testing, the reliable fragmentation threshold for common military 5.56 rounds (Vietnam era 55 grain M-193 and modern green tip 62 grain M-855) is 2700 feet per second. The M733 with it's 10.7" barrel will produce velocities in the low 2600 range at the muzzle (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/john.ppt#3, a US SOCOM report concerning the modern MK 18, 10.5" barreled grandchild of the M733) , and as such, will not provide very good fragmentation at distances beyond punching range.

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_2700.html

==FNC rifle update==
I changed the entry for the FNC rifle. I spoke to all of the armorers on set on this film and everyone says that the rifle was a full auto FNC (imported in the early 1980s) that was chopped and fired semi only at the behest of Director Mann. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

==1911 & clones handguns==
The handgun seen on the SISs officier near the end seems to be an LA Vickers Custom, based on the Springfield Loaded pistol, with an extended magwell (you can clearly see the extension on the pistol). The LA Vickers Custom was one of the 1911 handguns delivered by Property Division to the LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom II was selected as standard issue for the LAPD (and later the Kimber SIS for the SIS officers)

:It's possible, but I dunno if you can assume that. It's always a bad idea to assume that just because a certain law enforcement agency/unit or military uses a particular gun in real life, the exact same weapon is being used in a particular movie. There are a lot of movies that depict NYPD officers using Glock 17s instead of 19s, or that depict Secret Service Agents using SIG-Sauer P226s instead of P228s/P229s, for instance. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Yeah sure, but it looks like they at least tried to replicate it. Well i think we can say its a Government pistol with a magwell extension.

==Empty P220 anyone==
During the ending section, where Neil shots Trejo, Van Zant and Waingro, then shoots at Hannah, he fires a total of 8 rounds from his P220. Now correct me if i'm wrong, but a P220 carries an 8 round mag of .45 ACP rounds, so when Neil is lying in wait for Hannah just before the end, wouldn't he be empty? That is, of course, if he never reloaded.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
:Why wouldn't he have reloaded?
::Perhaps he had 1 round in the chamber, plus the 8-round magazine. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::True, but that would still only warrant him one more shot.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

==Car Chase==
It's funny: I was just on the street in downtown L.A. today where they filmed the shootout in this movie between the LAPD and McCauley's gang. Remember the part where McCauley, Cheritto, and Shiherlis got in the getaway car and drove off only to be stopped by a police roadblock? They made that sequence seem longer than it really would've been in reality. When I was on Fifth Street today, I looked, thought about it, and realized: they drove roughly one block before stopping, but it seemed like a much greater distance in the film. Just wanted to point that out. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Well, what can I say...you've stumbled upon one of the nuances of direction. Depending on editing and filming, a scene like that can appear to take place over a longer distance than it actually does. Even though Mann might have only been able to get the city to close down one or two blocks for filming (which, when you think about it, makes perfect sense), they can still make the scale of the battle feel larger and more epic with good direction. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh yeah, its still a great scene. In my opinion, I think it is one of the greatest movie gunbattles ever. It reminds me of the escalator shootout at Grand Central Station in ''[[Carlito's Way]]''. It kept going for a really long time because it was a very epic gunfight. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

==Hanna's Guns==
I was also just thinking about this: the filmmakers got most of the LAPD's weapons right. Patrol Officers carry Beretta's and Remington's (of course I don't think the LAPD used Mossbergs, but whatever. Maybe they did, idk), SWAT carries 1911's, MP5s, etc. You get the point. But what I found really interesting was Hanna's choice of weapons. A Colt Officer's ACP with ivory grips and an FN FNC. Now those are weapons I've never heard of any American police department using. Anyways, I just thought that was kinda odd. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree but on the other hand, I think, plot-wise or character-wise Hanna's choice makes sense.
Maybe Hanna's guns were chosen for dramatic reasons, to show, how much a loner he was. You know, he's not playing by the rules, so he doesn't use the same guns as the rest of the team. And since he's the best cop ever, of course he's allowed to carry any gun he wants. Something like that. There are many movies in which the hero-cops carry stranger guns (Remember Sam Elliott playing a NY-cop with a .45 Winchester Magnum LAR Grizzly Pistol?).
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 07:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

==KP90==
:I do not think that Cheritto would be the kind of guy who would use this sort of pistol over something better like a Hi-Power or M1911. He seems like a fellow "Gun Guy", who would not be caught dead with such a crappy sidearm-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

What makes the KP90 so "crappy"?
I´ve shot a few rounds with a P89 some years ago. Can't say, it was a bad gun.

BTW I´ve always been under the impression, there are no really bad guns. Only bad shots.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 13:38, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

== Chuck Adamson. The real life inspiration for Vincent Hanna.==
[[Image:St46.png|thumb|350px|none|([[Chuck Adamson]]) as Barry Dorgan in blue blazer in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''. Adamson was the real life inspiration for the character Vincent Hanna in ''[[Heat]]''.]]
He retired as a Lt. with the Chicago PD. He was the guy that Micheal Mann modeled Vincent Hanna after. He was a technical advisor on ''[[Heat]]'' and I believe the televison series ''[[Crime Story]]'' which was also produced by Mann.Chuck Adamson passed away on 02/22/2008. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

== Duct tape? ==

At the beginning, I see DeNiro's Colt Model 654 with duct tape on the handguard. Is there a purpose for it? Because this has always bothered me when I rewatch the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
: I don't know this for sure, but I would guess that it's to either make damn sure there are no fingerprints, or help it burn with that incendiary, or help with gripping the gun some way, or just look cool. Knowing Michael Mann, it's probably one of the former three, rather than the latter, and I'm guessing mostly the grip one.-protoAuthor 19:27, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
::Well, we can rule out the first option because De Niro is wearing gloves. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 21:39, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

Kind of cinematic/firearms related but I remember seeing a movie in the 1980's called "[[L.A. Takedown]]" and when I saw ''[[Heat]]'' I thought they had ripped off the movie. Then I read an article which confirmed Mann had made both and had considered the former a "dress rehearsal" for the latter. Anyways, I remember in ''"Takedown"'' the lead actor in the movie used a [[USAS-12 Shotgun]] in the final shootout proving, at least in my opinion, Mann always managed to make the weapons in his productions as exotic as the actors in them. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:Well maybe for LA Takedown, but in his other movies from Heat, Collateral, Miami Vice, and Public Enemies, the weapons weren't really "exotic". Maybe the SIG 552 used in Miami Vice, but all other guns since Heat were pretty normal. To me, it's the style of combat that is shown in Mann's movies that catches your eyes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:01, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Die Hard 2

2009-11-01T06:59:50Z

Lastgunslinger: /* The "Glock invisible"-nonsense */

Thanks for the ID on the [[Remington 870]], I figured has to be either that or a Mossberg, but didn't guess it in fear of getting it wrong. Anyway, I decided to do more screencaps to get the rest of the weapons onto the page, and also for the M16A1. I figured since everyone knows there are M16A1s with A2 Handguards in the movie, I might as well get a screencap of it.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:24, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

:I think we could use some better MP5 pictures. There are lots of good close-ups of the guns that would be great to have, especially since this movie features them so prominently. -MT2008

I included more shots of the MP5s, how does it loook now?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:39, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

== The "Glock invisible"-nonsense ==

Here's what Hugh Laurie (yes, the "House M. D."-guy) had to say about that in his novel "The gun seller":
"You may have read, at one time or another, some of the nonsense that’s been written about the Glock. The fact that its body is made from a fancy polymer material got one or two journalists very excited a while back about the possibility that the gun might not register on airport X-ray machines - which happens to be so much hooey. The slide, barrel, and a fair portion of its innards are metal, and if that weren’t enough, seventeen rounds of Parabellum ammunition are pretty hard to pass off as lipstick refills. What it does have is a high magazine capacity for a low weight, great accuracy, and virtually unequalled reliability. All of which have made the Glock 17 the choice of housewives everywhere."
Dr. House, I couldn't agree more.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 22:36, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:Is it a non-fiction book where Laurie talks about guns?--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

No, it´s a fictional novel. The hero is a merc, who got caught up in a gun-trade-conspiracy.
And to the user, who thinks, it's unlikely that Laurie is a gun expert: He doesn't need to be.
Really good authors tend to do something called "research".
This "research"-thing is a pretty rare phenomenon amongst writers.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 13:31, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

:We can do without the stupid sarcastic comments, dude. Don't be a jerk. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 16:57, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

This wasn't sarcasm, it was irony.
As in "Can we also do without the personal insults?" ("stupid", "jerk"?)
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 06:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

It seems unlikely that Laurie is a gun expert. On an appearance with Letterman he noted while here in the USA he and his son shot guns for the first time at a local gunrange.

However, his information is dead on. Further, I must comment that x-ray machines are most commonly used to take pictures of bones, which aren't metal. The amount of metal is really immaterial for X-ray detection. The polymer used in the frame is relatively dense compared to clothing and shows up nicely...just like bone.

::As for the infamous falsehoods about guns like the Glock that was 'parroted' by the Mainstream Media without fact checking back for the last 25 years, you can all blame guys like Josh Sugermann (of Handgun Control Inc.) who famously stated that the public's lack of knowledge about firearms will allow gun control advocates to pass more gun bans purely on hysteria and not on the facts. BTW: Josh Sugarmann, even though he is a fanatical anti gun activist, has a life membership to the NRA, so that he can openly visit the NRA conventions and "Report their dastardly machinations" to others. It's a bit of a fanatic to 'want' to spend so much time with their ideological opponents '''all in the the misguided attempt to 'destroy them''''. Also it was Democratic Senator from Ohio, Howard Metzembaum, who was famous for much of the 'anti gun' hyperbole of the 1980s. He's the one who 'coined' the phrase "Cop Killer Bullet" so I guess he will be known for 'something'. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== Blank Rounds ==
So we all know that guns can't switch between live and blank rounds, like the MP5s in this movie. So would the Beretta used by the Major be incorrectly able to switch between blanks and live? He is clearly seen firing the weapon in the attack on the church, but then he tries to shoot McClane with it on the 747 wing? Unless he was just trying to scare McClane or hold him up or something, or he really did fire live rounds at the church and hoped he didn't hit anyone.

Talk:Die Hard

2009-10-31T14:13:31Z

Lastgunslinger:

I am pretty sure it was not a recoiless rifle used to hit the LAPD APC in the movie. If I remember the scene correctly it seemed more like a bazooka a la the USMC SMAW (the Israeli B-300) where the missle/rocket is in a separate tube screwed into the rear of the launcher. In addition the launcher itself does not have the "crank" to close the rear hatch as is the case with most recoiless weapons. Finally, the reloads shown in the movie do not have the perforated shielding common to most/all recoiless rifle rounds.

:I don't have this on DVD but I swear at least one of them is a chopped down HK94 and not an A3. During the elavator scene, you can see it is missing a paddle mag release and 3 lugs on the barrel end. If someone could cap that, it would be much appreciated. -GM

::They're all chopped-down HK94s, every one of them, just like in ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' and ''[[Predator]]''. I have this movie on DVD, so I'll try to screencap the MP5s when I'm back at my apartment tomorrow.

==AQ11==
Nice work with the page! It was in much need of better shots. I have 2, 3, and 4 on DVD, but 1 on VHS. I guess now 1, 2, and 3 are your work mainly. Excellent work. -GM

Thanks, I've been meaning to redo the page. I especially wanted to get rid of the screengrabs taken from Youtube videos, those didn't look too great. Anyway, now everyone can say IMFDB has completed pages of every film in the Die Hard series.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 05:26, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Heckler & Koch never made a stainless version of their P7, it´s either nickel plated or hard chromed. Keep up the good work.

==Recoilless rifle==

I've taken a look around and I can't see any recoilless with a tube that looks like that one at the back. Thing is, there are some recoilless rifles with ''muzzles'' that look like that; if it's not a prop, it looks like they mounted it backwards. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 07:05, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

== Beretta taped to Willis' back ==
First off, I love "Die Hard". Always have, ever since I first saw it 20 years ago.
But I can't help but doubt that cheap tape would hold a Beretta.
That pistol is at about 2 lbs.

Don't you guys outthere think, filmmakers tend to forget about the weight of weapons too often?
In many movies, people can be seen throwing and catching guns, as if they were baseballs.
And how many times have we seen guns hidden in clothing and even in hats?! Even a small handgun like a Browning Baby or one of the small Berettas are at least 400 g. That's the weight of a beer can. Ever tried to hide a beer can under your hat?
In one of his movies, I remember seeing Schwarzenegger carrying his Beretta 92 in one of his socks!
Don't you think, it would be a hell of a job to walk that way?
What dou you think about all these almost weightless guns in many movies?
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 14:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Heat

2009-10-31T13:41:45Z

Lastgunslinger: /* KP90 */

==Views==

It's amazing we've reached nearly 80,000 views for this page. I remember how happy we were when it hit 50,000...which doesn't seem like it was all that long ago. Probably won't be much longer before we hit 100,000. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Over 130,000 now. Crazy. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Has anyone seen this?==

http://fateoflegions.blogspot.com/2008/06/movie-guns-x.html

I'm just curious because although his list isn't as thorough as ours, he seems to have some very high-quality screenshots which look way better than those on my DVD. I especially like the screenshot of Trejo's Norinco AK, which shows the barrel and front sight in better detail. Blu Ray, perhaps?

: The clearer shots already disproved one of my own recollections and I will fix it. I could have sworn that I saw M16A1 uppers mounted onto SP1 lowers on the set. (it was fourteen years ago!) But the clearer BLURAY shots show Wes Studi's rifle to be an M16A1 lower, not the SP1 lower I thought it was. Fooey! I pulled one of those Franken-guns from the inventory (though I can't be sure if that gun ever was in HEAT) and photographed it for nothing. I will change it back. As for this guy's list, he has much clearer High Def shots, but his information isn't nearly as accurate as IMFDB's page. [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

:: ''I always used to think it was a continuity error...the first shot (where he's firing at the car) clearly shows a gun with a mil-spec A1-style receiver, but it does look like an SP1 lower in the next scene, right before he shoots Kilmer. If it weren't for the Blu Ray shots, I would have continued to think this way.''

:''The guy thought the 733s in the film were M4A3s just because of the DVD title sequence. Pretty funny. I wish I had thought to nab more shots, many of the ones he took were ones I didn't bother because I thought the ones we had were good enough. Should have followed my gut. His page is a little more complete but less correct, as far as I'm concerned.-GM''
::''There's also the phenomenon of having '''too many screen caps''', something I'm seeing on some pages (look at Dogs of War, the changes that aren't mine.). I know that some guys get all excited about their ability to post screen caps, but having literally DOZENS of images of the same guns is really '''beating a dead horse''' and makes the page cumbersome and annoying to look at. The last thing I want are to have IMFDB movie pages resembling people's MYSPACE pages ... cluttered, hard to navigate and generally irritating. So far I think your ratio of 'useful' images is just fine. These other guys don't know when there is '''too much of a good thing'''. ''
::''Also IMFDB has the advantage of multiple users checking and re-checking the pages. Sure some of the pages have work to do, but they will eventually be 100% done. '' [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

::What is this so called M4A3? I've never heard of it. So after the A1, there's an A2 and an A3 as well? Are we talking about what Colt makes or what Bushmaster makes? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
:::No such variant exists. Someone mistook another Colt variant I guess and soon it spread around as improper fact. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::I see. Well I can somewhat understand some people when they look at AR-15 type weapons as the same rifle because they all share the same basic design. I used to look and see every shorty M16 variant as an M4 before I knew more about the M4 and also used to not know that the M4 is the burst verison and the A1 is auto with the removable carrying handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

:Hey, guys, there is no Blu-Ray of Heat yet, unfortunately.

==Bosko ([[Ted Levine]])==
The first casualty of the bank robbery gun battle. What type of gun was he using? [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 03:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:The rent-a-cop with the ankle holster? Or out in the street? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 15:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

::Out in the street. I though it was a G36K or something but I can't be sure. [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 02:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:::''I know this is kind of an old comment, but the G36 series wasn't around when the movie was filmed (1994-95), and it wouldn't have been imported to the U.S. until 1998, about two years after it entered service with the ''Bundeswehr''. Anyway, Bosko uses one of the M16A1s with A2 handguards that are used by most of the other detectives in the shootout, including Detective Casals.''

== M4 ==

During the van rubbery DiNero and Killmer used M4s.

:No, they used Colt Model 733s. - [[user:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]
:Is a ''"rubbery"'' something like a ''"shrubbery"''? And who is ''DiNEro'' ("Money" in spanish) and ''KILLmer''? Just kidding LOL!~ ;) - [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Help! ==

Someone fucked up the pictures with Â letters, i fixed that. Now, some of the pictures don't show for some reason. - [[User:Flying Dane]]

== Fixed ==

It's okay, I fixed them. They had some long spaces in them. Alienqueen11.

== MoviePropMaster2008 edit ==

I deleted the MoviePropMaster2008 edit because of it's non-encyclopedic tone. If discussions about a certain gun in the article are to be made, I think it should be done here in the discussion section. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 23:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:Well, that's fine, but then at the very least, you should have the courtesy to copy and paste the comments into this section rather than deleting them completely, as I have done here.

Alright. I'll be sure to do that in the future. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 19:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== Conversation on the FNC ==

MP2008 had a really good conversation going about which variant of FNC is carried by Vincent in this movie. I have now revived it for this section:

: Well, you've been very busy, [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]], though you're making an entirely educated guess (not a bad one) The 70-30 is a Para length barrel semi auto FNC designed for Law Enforcement use and sale only , so that would be a good guess. However, The FNCs on the set WERE full auto (I was there), but Director Michael Mann directed Al Pacino to fire semi auto only (which is pretty cool since police should NOT go full auto on street full of civilians). From what I remember, Pacino's gun was a pre-1985 American imported FNC 223 rem Sporter that was converted and had the barrel chopped WAY down to mimic the Para rifles and had a M16A1 style birdcage flash hider installed (see pic) by the movie armorers. FN imported American shorter FNC guns 'called' the para rifle, but the American barrels were several inches longer than the one seen in the movie, so this one was chopped down to look more like the European Para Models of the FNC.

[[Image:HEAT FNC Short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pacino with a chopped down FNC rifle - note the M16A1 style birdcage flash hider, the original FNCs used Belgian FN FAL style flash hiders and the Para Models had an ultra short version of the same Belgian design.]]

:Harry Lu was the lead armorer (same guy who just did Rambo (2008)), but he's the head coordinator. There were a LOT of trainers and gun handlers on location - it was a big shoot with lots of actors/stuntmen handling live weapons. Lu, like most armorers, acquired the guns from rental houses. At the beginning of the filming of the Street battle, the FNCs were provided by Mike Papac of Cinema Weaponry, but the filming went a lot longer than anticipated, and rifles apparently were swapped out with guns provided by Syd Stembridge of Stembridge Gun Rentals of Glendale (according to everyone's recollection), it's been almost 14 years since that shoot so everyone is working from memory. I too must check it for sure. What I remember and what Mike or Syd or Harry tell me may differ so I will try to get a pic of Pacino's exact gun or at least get the exact model and make info. ...[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

How do you get images onto imfdb i am really stumped

:''Use "Upload File" under the "Toolbox" section (visible on the left menu, below "Search"). To actually display images in an article, copy and paste some of the code from any article of your choice (you can use the code that I used on this page to display the image of Pacino with the FNC, above).''

::I don't remember what I said to which MPM replied. Anyone remember? [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Gonna fix my own pics==
Will probably be replacing the pic I uploaded of the Colt 733 since mine is actually an M16A1 with a Colt Sporter Carbine top, chopped down to resemble a 733. I am trying to get a REAL (marked) 733 that hasn't been altered by a gunsmith (that's pretty hard in this town). Too many of the guns are outfitted with outlandish RIS rails, lasers, scope mounts, and they're nearly unrecognizable. And if I'm borrowing someone else's gun to snap pics of I don't want to have to completely rebuild their gun. ;) Just giving everyone a heads up. (MPM2008)
:Is that why these guns have A2 recievers and yours has an A1? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==New pics==
How does our number 1 page look now that I added some extra shots? I'm quite proud of my Norinco Type 56-1 pic. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Comment regarding the first shot of the FN FNC section.==
The screencap you have would appear to show no one but civilians in Vincent's line of fire. However, the shots immediately before show Vincent and his soon-to-be-deceased partner coming under fire from Shirelis as he hops into the getaway car. Considering that most no one short of a robot's going to have enough wherewithal to know when to stop firing THAT quickly, it can be reasonably assumed that Vincent still believed he had a good bead. I wouldn't slight him for that one. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

== Discussion of "Fragmentation" ==

Hello.

I noticed a over enthiusiastic, but inccorect passage regarding the secondary wounding mechanism of "fragmentation" in the Colt 733 article, and editted it appropriately.

Fragmentation is well documented to be a function of velocity. While certain rounds can fragment at lower velocities (ie, MK262 Mod 0/Mod 1, Nosler OTM, etc) it remains a constant that a high velocity = higher chance of fragmentation. As a result, the statement that rounds fired from the 733 fragment violently, similiar to an "explosion" is completely false.

As is documented in reports by Dr. Martin L. Fackler, and in testing, the reliable fragmentation threshold for common military 5.56 rounds (Vietnam era 55 grain M-193 and modern green tip 62 grain M-855) is 2700 feet per second. The M733 with it's 10.7" barrel will produce velocities in the low 2600 range at the muzzle (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/john.ppt#3, a US SOCOM report concerning the modern MK 18, 10.5" barreled grandchild of the M733) , and as such, will not provide very good fragmentation at distances beyond punching range.

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_2700.html

==FNC rifle update==
I changed the entry for the FNC rifle. I spoke to all of the armorers on set on this film and everyone says that the rifle was a full auto FNC (imported in the early 1980s) that was chopped and fired semi only at the behest of Director Mann. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

==1911 & clones handguns==
The handgun seen on the SISs officier near the end seems to be an LA Vickers Custom, based on the Springfield Loaded pistol, with an extended magwell (you can clearly see the extension on the pistol). The LA Vickers Custom was one of the 1911 handguns delivered by Property Division to the LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom II was selected as standard issue for the LAPD (and later the Kimber SIS for the SIS officers)

:It's possible, but I dunno if you can assume that. It's always a bad idea to assume that just because a certain law enforcement agency/unit or military uses a particular gun in real life, the exact same weapon is being used in a particular movie. There are a lot of movies that depict NYPD officers using Glock 17s instead of 19s, or that depict Secret Service Agents using SIG-Sauer P226s instead of P228s/P229s, for instance. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Yeah sure, but it looks like they at least tried to replicate it. Well i think we can say its a Government pistol with a magwell extension.

==Empty P220 anyone==
During the ending section, where Neil shots Trejo, Van Zant and Waingro, then shoots at Hannah, he fires a total of 8 rounds from his P220. Now correct me if i'm wrong, but a P220 carries an 8 round mag of .45 ACP rounds, so when Neil is lying in wait for Hannah just before the end, wouldn't he be empty? That is, of course, if he never reloaded.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
:Why wouldn't he have reloaded?
::Perhaps he had 1 round in the chamber, plus the 8-round magazine. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::True, but that would still only warrant him one more shot.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

==Car Chase==
It's funny: I was just on the street in downtown L.A. today where they filmed the shootout in this movie between the LAPD and McCauley's gang. Remember the part where McCauley, Cheritto, and Shiherlis got in the getaway car and drove off only to be stopped by a police roadblock? They made that sequence seem longer than it really would've been in reality. When I was on Fifth Street today, I looked, thought about it, and realized: they drove roughly one block before stopping, but it seemed like a much greater distance in the film. Just wanted to point that out. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Well, what can I say...you've stumbled upon one of the nuances of direction. Depending on editing and filming, a scene like that can appear to take place over a longer distance than it actually does. Even though Mann might have only been able to get the city to close down one or two blocks for filming (which, when you think about it, makes perfect sense), they can still make the scale of the battle feel larger and more epic with good direction. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh yeah, its still a great scene. In my opinion, I think it is one of the greatest movie gunbattles ever. It reminds me of the escalator shootout at Grand Central Station in ''[[Carlito's Way]]''. It kept going for a really long time because it was a very epic gunfight. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

==Hanna's Guns==
I was also just thinking about this: the filmmakers got most of the LAPD's weapons right. Patrol Officers carry Beretta's and Remington's (of course I don't think the LAPD used Mossbergs, but whatever. Maybe they did, idk), SWAT carries 1911's, MP5s, etc. You get the point. But what I found really interesting was Hanna's choice of weapons. A Colt Officer's ACP with ivory grips and an FN FNC. Now those are weapons I've never heard of any American police department using. Anyways, I just thought that was kinda odd. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
==KP90==
:I do not think that Cheritto would be the kind of guy who would use this sort of pistol over something better like a Hi-Power or M1911. He seems like a fellow "Gun Guy", who would not be caught dead with such a crappy sidearm-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

What makes the KP90 so "crappy"?
I´ve shot a few rounds with a P89 some years ago. Can't say, it was a bad gun.

BTW I´ve always been under the impression, there are no really bad guns. Only bad shots.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 13:38, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

== Chuck Adamson. The real life inspiration for Vincent Hanna.==
[[Image:St46.png|thumb|350px|none|([[Chuck Adamson]]) as Barry Dorgan in blue blazer in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''. Adamson was the real life inspiration for the character Vincent Hanna in ''[[Heat]]''.]]
He retired as a Lt. with the Chicago PD. He was the guy that Micheal Mann modeled Vincent Hanna after. He was a technical advisor on ''[[Heat]]'' and I believe the televison series ''[[Crime Story]]'' which was also produced by Mann.Chuck Adamson passed away on 02/22/2008. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

== Duct tape? ==

At the beginning, I see DeNiro's Colt Model 654 with duct tape on the handguard. Is there a purpose for it? Because this has always bothered me when I rewatch the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Heat

2009-10-31T13:38:58Z

Lastgunslinger: /* KP90 */

==Views==

It's amazing we've reached nearly 80,000 views for this page. I remember how happy we were when it hit 50,000...which doesn't seem like it was all that long ago. Probably won't be much longer before we hit 100,000. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Over 130,000 now. Crazy. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Has anyone seen this?==

http://fateoflegions.blogspot.com/2008/06/movie-guns-x.html

I'm just curious because although his list isn't as thorough as ours, he seems to have some very high-quality screenshots which look way better than those on my DVD. I especially like the screenshot of Trejo's Norinco AK, which shows the barrel and front sight in better detail. Blu Ray, perhaps?

: The clearer shots already disproved one of my own recollections and I will fix it. I could have sworn that I saw M16A1 uppers mounted onto SP1 lowers on the set. (it was fourteen years ago!) But the clearer BLURAY shots show Wes Studi's rifle to be an M16A1 lower, not the SP1 lower I thought it was. Fooey! I pulled one of those Franken-guns from the inventory (though I can't be sure if that gun ever was in HEAT) and photographed it for nothing. I will change it back. As for this guy's list, he has much clearer High Def shots, but his information isn't nearly as accurate as IMFDB's page. [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

:: ''I always used to think it was a continuity error...the first shot (where he's firing at the car) clearly shows a gun with a mil-spec A1-style receiver, but it does look like an SP1 lower in the next scene, right before he shoots Kilmer. If it weren't for the Blu Ray shots, I would have continued to think this way.''

:''The guy thought the 733s in the film were M4A3s just because of the DVD title sequence. Pretty funny. I wish I had thought to nab more shots, many of the ones he took were ones I didn't bother because I thought the ones we had were good enough. Should have followed my gut. His page is a little more complete but less correct, as far as I'm concerned.-GM''
::''There's also the phenomenon of having '''too many screen caps''', something I'm seeing on some pages (look at Dogs of War, the changes that aren't mine.). I know that some guys get all excited about their ability to post screen caps, but having literally DOZENS of images of the same guns is really '''beating a dead horse''' and makes the page cumbersome and annoying to look at. The last thing I want are to have IMFDB movie pages resembling people's MYSPACE pages ... cluttered, hard to navigate and generally irritating. So far I think your ratio of 'useful' images is just fine. These other guys don't know when there is '''too much of a good thing'''. ''
::''Also IMFDB has the advantage of multiple users checking and re-checking the pages. Sure some of the pages have work to do, but they will eventually be 100% done. '' [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

::What is this so called M4A3? I've never heard of it. So after the A1, there's an A2 and an A3 as well? Are we talking about what Colt makes or what Bushmaster makes? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
:::No such variant exists. Someone mistook another Colt variant I guess and soon it spread around as improper fact. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::I see. Well I can somewhat understand some people when they look at AR-15 type weapons as the same rifle because they all share the same basic design. I used to look and see every shorty M16 variant as an M4 before I knew more about the M4 and also used to not know that the M4 is the burst verison and the A1 is auto with the removable carrying handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

:Hey, guys, there is no Blu-Ray of Heat yet, unfortunately.

==Bosko ([[Ted Levine]])==
The first casualty of the bank robbery gun battle. What type of gun was he using? [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 03:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:The rent-a-cop with the ankle holster? Or out in the street? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 15:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

::Out in the street. I though it was a G36K or something but I can't be sure. [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 02:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:::''I know this is kind of an old comment, but the G36 series wasn't around when the movie was filmed (1994-95), and it wouldn't have been imported to the U.S. until 1998, about two years after it entered service with the ''Bundeswehr''. Anyway, Bosko uses one of the M16A1s with A2 handguards that are used by most of the other detectives in the shootout, including Detective Casals.''

== M4 ==

During the van rubbery DiNero and Killmer used M4s.

:No, they used Colt Model 733s. - [[user:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]
:Is a ''"rubbery"'' something like a ''"shrubbery"''? And who is ''DiNEro'' ("Money" in spanish) and ''KILLmer''? Just kidding LOL!~ ;) - [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Help! ==

Someone fucked up the pictures with Â letters, i fixed that. Now, some of the pictures don't show for some reason. - [[User:Flying Dane]]

== Fixed ==

It's okay, I fixed them. They had some long spaces in them. Alienqueen11.

== MoviePropMaster2008 edit ==

I deleted the MoviePropMaster2008 edit because of it's non-encyclopedic tone. If discussions about a certain gun in the article are to be made, I think it should be done here in the discussion section. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 23:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:Well, that's fine, but then at the very least, you should have the courtesy to copy and paste the comments into this section rather than deleting them completely, as I have done here.

Alright. I'll be sure to do that in the future. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 19:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== Conversation on the FNC ==

MP2008 had a really good conversation going about which variant of FNC is carried by Vincent in this movie. I have now revived it for this section:

: Well, you've been very busy, [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]], though you're making an entirely educated guess (not a bad one) The 70-30 is a Para length barrel semi auto FNC designed for Law Enforcement use and sale only , so that would be a good guess. However, The FNCs on the set WERE full auto (I was there), but Director Michael Mann directed Al Pacino to fire semi auto only (which is pretty cool since police should NOT go full auto on street full of civilians). From what I remember, Pacino's gun was a pre-1985 American imported FNC 223 rem Sporter that was converted and had the barrel chopped WAY down to mimic the Para rifles and had a M16A1 style birdcage flash hider installed (see pic) by the movie armorers. FN imported American shorter FNC guns 'called' the para rifle, but the American barrels were several inches longer than the one seen in the movie, so this one was chopped down to look more like the European Para Models of the FNC.

[[Image:HEAT FNC Short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pacino with a chopped down FNC rifle - note the M16A1 style birdcage flash hider, the original FNCs used Belgian FN FAL style flash hiders and the Para Models had an ultra short version of the same Belgian design.]]

:Harry Lu was the lead armorer (same guy who just did Rambo (2008)), but he's the head coordinator. There were a LOT of trainers and gun handlers on location - it was a big shoot with lots of actors/stuntmen handling live weapons. Lu, like most armorers, acquired the guns from rental houses. At the beginning of the filming of the Street battle, the FNCs were provided by Mike Papac of Cinema Weaponry, but the filming went a lot longer than anticipated, and rifles apparently were swapped out with guns provided by Syd Stembridge of Stembridge Gun Rentals of Glendale (according to everyone's recollection), it's been almost 14 years since that shoot so everyone is working from memory. I too must check it for sure. What I remember and what Mike or Syd or Harry tell me may differ so I will try to get a pic of Pacino's exact gun or at least get the exact model and make info. ...[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

How do you get images onto imfdb i am really stumped

:''Use "Upload File" under the "Toolbox" section (visible on the left menu, below "Search"). To actually display images in an article, copy and paste some of the code from any article of your choice (you can use the code that I used on this page to display the image of Pacino with the FNC, above).''

::I don't remember what I said to which MPM replied. Anyone remember? [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Gonna fix my own pics==
Will probably be replacing the pic I uploaded of the Colt 733 since mine is actually an M16A1 with a Colt Sporter Carbine top, chopped down to resemble a 733. I am trying to get a REAL (marked) 733 that hasn't been altered by a gunsmith (that's pretty hard in this town). Too many of the guns are outfitted with outlandish RIS rails, lasers, scope mounts, and they're nearly unrecognizable. And if I'm borrowing someone else's gun to snap pics of I don't want to have to completely rebuild their gun. ;) Just giving everyone a heads up. (MPM2008)
:Is that why these guns have A2 recievers and yours has an A1? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==New pics==
How does our number 1 page look now that I added some extra shots? I'm quite proud of my Norinco Type 56-1 pic. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Comment regarding the first shot of the FN FNC section.==
The screencap you have would appear to show no one but civilians in Vincent's line of fire. However, the shots immediately before show Vincent and his soon-to-be-deceased partner coming under fire from Shirelis as he hops into the getaway car. Considering that most no one short of a robot's going to have enough wherewithal to know when to stop firing THAT quickly, it can be reasonably assumed that Vincent still believed he had a good bead. I wouldn't slight him for that one. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

== Discussion of "Fragmentation" ==

Hello.

I noticed a over enthiusiastic, but inccorect passage regarding the secondary wounding mechanism of "fragmentation" in the Colt 733 article, and editted it appropriately.

Fragmentation is well documented to be a function of velocity. While certain rounds can fragment at lower velocities (ie, MK262 Mod 0/Mod 1, Nosler OTM, etc) it remains a constant that a high velocity = higher chance of fragmentation. As a result, the statement that rounds fired from the 733 fragment violently, similiar to an "explosion" is completely false.

As is documented in reports by Dr. Martin L. Fackler, and in testing, the reliable fragmentation threshold for common military 5.56 rounds (Vietnam era 55 grain M-193 and modern green tip 62 grain M-855) is 2700 feet per second. The M733 with it's 10.7" barrel will produce velocities in the low 2600 range at the muzzle (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/john.ppt#3, a US SOCOM report concerning the modern MK 18, 10.5" barreled grandchild of the M733) , and as such, will not provide very good fragmentation at distances beyond punching range.

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_2700.html

==FNC rifle update==
I changed the entry for the FNC rifle. I spoke to all of the armorers on set on this film and everyone says that the rifle was a full auto FNC (imported in the early 1980s) that was chopped and fired semi only at the behest of Director Mann. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

==1911 & clones handguns==
The handgun seen on the SISs officier near the end seems to be an LA Vickers Custom, based on the Springfield Loaded pistol, with an extended magwell (you can clearly see the extension on the pistol). The LA Vickers Custom was one of the 1911 handguns delivered by Property Division to the LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom II was selected as standard issue for the LAPD (and later the Kimber SIS for the SIS officers)

:It's possible, but I dunno if you can assume that. It's always a bad idea to assume that just because a certain law enforcement agency/unit or military uses a particular gun in real life, the exact same weapon is being used in a particular movie. There are a lot of movies that depict NYPD officers using Glock 17s instead of 19s, or that depict Secret Service Agents using SIG-Sauer P226s instead of P228s/P229s, for instance. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Yeah sure, but it looks like they at least tried to replicate it. Well i think we can say its a Government pistol with a magwell extension.

==Empty P220 anyone==
During the ending section, where Neil shots Trejo, Van Zant and Waingro, then shoots at Hannah, he fires a total of 8 rounds from his P220. Now correct me if i'm wrong, but a P220 carries an 8 round mag of .45 ACP rounds, so when Neil is lying in wait for Hannah just before the end, wouldn't he be empty? That is, of course, if he never reloaded.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
:Why wouldn't he have reloaded?
::Perhaps he had 1 round in the chamber, plus the 8-round magazine. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::True, but that would still only warrant him one more shot.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

==Car Chase==
It's funny: I was just on the street in downtown L.A. today where they filmed the shootout in this movie between the LAPD and McCauley's gang. Remember the part where McCauley, Cheritto, and Shiherlis got in the getaway car and drove off only to be stopped by a police roadblock? They made that sequence seem longer than it really would've been in reality. When I was on Fifth Street today, I looked, thought about it, and realized: they drove roughly one block before stopping, but it seemed like a much greater distance in the film. Just wanted to point that out. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Well, what can I say...you've stumbled upon one of the nuances of direction. Depending on editing and filming, a scene like that can appear to take place over a longer distance than it actually does. Even though Mann might have only been able to get the city to close down one or two blocks for filming (which, when you think about it, makes perfect sense), they can still make the scale of the battle feel larger and more epic with good direction. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh yeah, its still a great scene. In my opinion, I think it is one of the greatest movie gunbattles ever. It reminds me of the escalator shootout at Grand Central Station in ''[[Carlito's Way]]''. It kept going for a really long time because it was a very epic gunfight. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

==Hanna's Guns==
I was also just thinking about this: the filmmakers got most of the LAPD's weapons right. Patrol Officers carry Beretta's and Remington's (of course I don't think the LAPD used Mossbergs, but whatever. Maybe they did, idk), SWAT carries 1911's, MP5s, etc. You get the point. But what I found really interesting was Hanna's choice of weapons. A Colt Officer's ACP with ivory grips and an FN FNC. Now those are weapons I've never heard of any American police department using. Anyways, I just thought that was kinda odd. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
==KP90==
:I do not think that Cheritto would be the kind of guy who would use this sort of pistol over something better like a Hi-Power or M1911. He seems like a fellow "Gun Guy", who would not be caught dead with such a crappy sidearm-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

What makes the KP90 so "crappy"?
I´ve shot a few rounds with a P89 some years ago. Can't say, it was a bad gun.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 13:38, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

== Chuck Adamson. The real life inspiration for Vincent Hanna.==
[[Image:St46.png|thumb|350px|none|([[Chuck Adamson]]) as Barry Dorgan in blue blazer in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''. Adamson was the real life inspiration for the character Vincent Hanna in ''[[Heat]]''.]]
He retired as a Lt. with the Chicago PD. He was the guy that Micheal Mann modeled Vincent Hanna after. He was a technical advisor on ''[[Heat]]'' and I believe the televison series ''[[Crime Story]]'' which was also produced by Mann.Chuck Adamson passed away on 02/22/2008. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

== Duct tape? ==

At the beginning, I see DeNiro's Colt Model 654 with duct tape on the handguard. Is there a purpose for it? Because this has always bothered me when I rewatch the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Die Hard 2

2009-10-31T13:31:12Z

Lastgunslinger: /* The "Glock invisible"-nonsense */

Thanks for the ID on the [[Remington 870]], I figured has to be either that or a Mossberg, but didn't guess it in fear of getting it wrong. Anyway, I decided to do more screencaps to get the rest of the weapons onto the page, and also for the M16A1. I figured since everyone knows there are M16A1s with A2 Handguards in the movie, I might as well get a screencap of it.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:24, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

:I think we could use some better MP5 pictures. There are lots of good close-ups of the guns that would be great to have, especially since this movie features them so prominently. -MT2008

I included more shots of the MP5s, how does it loook now?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:39, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

== The "Glock invisible"-nonsense ==

Here's what Hugh Laurie (yes, the "House M. D."-guy) had to say about that in his novel "The gun seller":
"You may have read, at one time or another, some of the nonsense that’s been written about the Glock. The fact that its body is made from a fancy polymer material got one or two journalists very excited a while back about the possibility that the gun might not register on airport X-ray machines - which happens to be so much hooey. The slide, barrel, and a fair portion of its innards are metal, and if that weren’t enough, seventeen rounds of Parabellum ammunition are pretty hard to pass off as lipstick refills. What it does have is a high magazine capacity for a low weight, great accuracy, and virtually unequalled reliability. All of which have made the Glock 17 the choice of housewives everywhere."
Dr. House, I couldn't agree more.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 22:36, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:Is it a non-fiction book where Laurie talks about guns?--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

No, it´s a fictional novel. The hero is a merc, who got caught up in a gun-trade-conspiracy.
And to the user, who thinks, it's unlikely that Laurie is a gun expert: He doesn't need to be.
Really good authors tend to do something called "research".
This "research"-thing is a pretty rare phenomenon amongst writers.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 13:31, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems unlikely that Laurie is a gun expert. On an appearance with Letterman he noted while here in the USA he and his son shot guns for the first time at a local gunrange.

However, his information is dead on. Further, I must comment that x-ray machines are most commonly used to take pictures of bones, which aren't metal. The amount of metal is really immaterial for X-ray detection. The polymer used in the frame is relatively dense compared to clothing and shows up nicely...just like bone.

::As for the infamous falsehoods about guns like the Glock that was 'parroted' by the Mainstream Media without fact checking back for the last 25 years, you can all blame guys like Josh Sugermann (of Handgun Control Inc.) who famously stated that the public's lack of knowledge about firearms will allow gun control advocates to pass more gun bans purely on hysteria and not on the facts. BTW: Josh Sugarmann, even though he is a fanatical anti gun activist, has a life membership to the NRA, so that he can openly visit the NRA conventions and "Report their dastardly machinations" to others. It's a bit of a fanatic to 'want' to spend so much time with their ideological opponents '''all in the the misguided attempt to 'destroy them''''. Also it was Democratic Senator from Ohio, Howard Metzembaum, who was famous for much of the 'anti gun' hyperbole of the 1980s. He's the one who 'coined' the phrase "Cop Killer Bullet" so I guess he will be known for 'something'. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== Blank Rounds ==
So we all know that guns can't switch between live and blank rounds, like the MP5s in this movie. So would the Beretta used by the Major be incorrectly able to switch between blanks and live? He is clearly seen firing the weapon in the attack on the church, but then he tries to shoot McClane with it on the 747 wing? Unless he was just trying to scare McClane or hold him up or something, or he really did fire live rounds at the church and hoped he didn't hit anyone.

Talk:Glock pistol series

2009-10-25T22:39:15Z

Lastgunslinger:

2 Glocks (.45?) play prominet roles in the movie "Fracture" starring Anthony Hopkins. Don't know the model so I didn't edit the main page ([[Special:Contributions/80.121.38.199|80.121.38.199]] 18:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC))

== The "Glock invisible"-nonsense ==

Here's what Hugh Laurie (yes, the "House M. D."-guy) had to say about that in his novel "The gun seller":
"You may have read, at one time or another, some of the nonsense that’s been written about the Glock. The fact that its body is made from a fancy polymer material got one or two journalists very excited a while back about the possibility that the gun might not register on airport X-ray machines - which happens to be so much hooey. The slide, barrel, and a fair portion of its innards are metal, and if that weren’t enough, seventeen rounds of Parabellum ammunition are pretty hard to pass off as lipstick refills. What it does have is a high magazine capacity for a low weight, great accuracy, and virtually unequalled reliability. All of which have made the Glock 17 the choice of housewives everywhere."
Dr. House, I couldn't agree more.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 22:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Die Hard 2

2009-10-25T22:36:29Z

Lastgunslinger:

Talk:Death Wish 4: The Crackdown

2009-10-25T22:23:46Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Walther PPk or PPks? */

== Mini 14 ==

No mention of his silenced Mini 14 with folding stock? Pretty sure it wasn't a ranch rifle, if I remember right it had a rear sight and the scope was mounted to a base attached to the side of the reciever.

== Walther PPk or PPk/S? ==
Haven´t seen this one in years (or decades), but didn´t Kersey use a Walther PPk to kill someone by shooting through a desk?
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 22:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Death Wish 4: The Crackdown

2009-10-25T22:21:26Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Mini 14 */

== Mini 14 ==

No mention of his silenced Mini 14 with folding stock? Pretty sure it wasn't a ranch rifle, if I remember right it had a rear sight and the scope was mounted to a base attached to the side of the reciever.

== Walther PPk or PPks? ==
Haven´t seen this one in years (or decades), but didn´t Kersey use a Walther PPk to kill someone by shooting through a desk?
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 22:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:The Terminator (1984)

2009-10-25T18:14:26Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Laser Sight */

==Sound Effects==
:''It seems, with the recent DVD releases of this movie, they remastered the sound as well. Though I've yet to see the police station shootout scene in full, there are several points where I've done double takes trying to reconcile watching it now with my childhood memories of VHS.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 03:47, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
::I noticed that too. I own the VHS and when I saw it on TV, they used better gunshots and got rid of all the ricocheting sounds. I didn't really mind too much though. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Laser Sight==
I always wondered why the Terminator needed a laser sight on his gun, besides making it look really cool.
:It was new technology at the time, and director James Cameron wanted the visual impact of the red dot glowing on Linda Hamilton's forehead. Prior to the early 1980s there were few scenes of Laser dot sighting systems, of course, NOW they are a cliche, but back then they were fresh. MPM2008

Of course, no Terminator would need a laser sight.
PLUS no Terminator would ever miss, not to mention waste 9mm ammo with an Uzi, like in the scene at the "tech-noir" club.
But on the other hand, it's just a movie. --[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 18:14, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

== The Uzi ==
I have read in a biography of Arnold that the Uzi used in the film was borrowed from a federal agency as they were the only ones with full auto Uzi's in those days. Would anyone care to confirm that information? [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]]
:Baloney. Federal Agency Uzis would NOT be "Hollywood blank adapted", i.e. barrel tapped and a BFA screwed into the barrel interior for hot movie blanks. I've seen Federal Law enforcement train sometimes with commercial 'weak' blanks, and I've seen those military 9mm blanks, but they're nothing close to full flash movie blanks. Also military and Law enforcement tend to use external 'attachable' blank firing adaptors so that the weapon can be quickly rendered back into active service. Also the film was made in 1984. The movie industry had no problem getting Uzis by that time. The Movie [[Stripes]] shot in 1980, released in 1981 has MAC-10s disguised as Uzis and some legitimate Uzis as well. MPM2008

==Pipe bomb pics==
Uzi870, despite the practices of some of the other users, it is not necessary to put so many pics of the pipe bombs, especially shots where we don't see the actual weapon, but only the aftermath. At this point it is just RETELLING the movie rather than identifying the weapon. As an admin I tend to delete images which belabor the point and don't even show the weapons in the section. Please try to use some discipline when doing screenshots. Pipe bombs, like IEDs, are not standard enough weapons to merit a page on the gun category, and no viewer would 'wonder what make and model' pipe bomb was used. Thanks. MPM2008

== Comment ==
I agree about the G3 being a good choice. If someone were to put one into the Terminator's head they could maybe kill it.- S&Wshooter

: I think most of the guns the rebels use in the terminator movies could destroy terminators.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:00, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Blue Thunder

2009-10-24T22:01:27Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Smith & Wesson Model 27 */

''Blue Thunder'' is a 1983 action film starring [[Roy Scheider]] as a Los Angeles police helicopter pilot who is assigned to be involved in a secret military helicopter program. There is a title card at the beginning of the film that states all of the technology portrayed in the film is real and currently in use in the United States military.

'''The following weapons were used in the movie ''Blue Thunder:''

==M61A1 20mm Vulcan Cannon==
The main offensive weapon of the Blue Thunder helicopter. It is chin-mounted on a turret in the front and is able to be guided by pilot's helmet movements.

[[Image:BlueT000.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The army weapons officer states that Blue Thunder's six barrels are capable of firing 4000 rounds a minute.]]
[[Image:BlueT001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the Vulcan cannon firing.]]
[[Image:BlueT001a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The turret shows that the Vulcan can be fired at a 90 degree angle.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 27==
Carried by the LA police officer that stops Kate on the bridge.

[[Image:BlueT006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kate ([[Candy Clark]]) is stopped by police officers carrying the S&W Model 27.]]

"Smith & Wesson Model 27"?
I doubt it. It´s way too small (K-frame size probably) and where are the adjustable sights?
Looks more like a Model 10 or 13 to me.

==Smith & Wesson Model 10 .38 Snubnose==
Colonel Cochrane ([[Malcolm McDowell]]) takes out his [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] snubnose and fires at Murphy as he takes off with Blue Thunder.

Officer Frank Murphy ([[Roy Scheider]])points his .38 snub at an angry mechanic while he sits in Blue Thunder.
[[Image:BlueT003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"You talkin' to me?" Murphy aims his .38 at a helicopter mechanic.]]

==[[M230 Chain Gun]]==
The Hughes M230 30mm Chain Gun is typically mounted on the AH-64 Apache, but two are mounted on Col. Cochrane's Hughes 500 helicopter.

[[Image:BlueT002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Twin chainguns are seen mounted on the Cochrane's Hughes helicopter.]]

==M60 Machine Gun==

SWAT officers try to knock down Blue Thunder with their M60 machine guns.
[[Image:BlueT004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SWAT officer fires his M60 at Blue Thunder. The M60 appears to have a brass catcher.]]
[[Image:BlueT005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another SWAT officer with his M60.]]

==M16A1 ==

SWAT officers use M16's to take down Blue Thunder during the chase in the Los Angeles river.

==Ithaca 37==
Seen being fired by police officers and carried by SWAT officers.

==Trivia Section==
* The "Blue Thunder" chopper in reality is a French Aerospatiale Gazelle with the cockpit section modded. This cockpit section was also used as part of a Mil-24 Hind in the movie ''[[Firefox]]''.

[[Image:Firefox07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Blue Thunder cockpit as seen in ''[[Firefox]]''.]]
[[Category:Movie]]

Blue Thunder

2009-10-24T22:00:34Z

Lastgunslinger: /* Smith & Wesson Model 27 */

''Blue Thunder'' is a 1983 action film starring [[Roy Scheider]] as a Los Angeles police helicopter pilot who is assigned to be involved in a secret military helicopter program. There is a title card at the beginning of the film that states all of the technology portrayed in the film is real and currently in use in the United States military.

'''The following weapons were used in the movie ''Blue Thunder:''

==M61A1 20mm Vulcan Cannon==
The main offensive weapon of the Blue Thunder helicopter. It is chin-mounted on a turret in the front and is able to be guided by pilot's helmet movements.

[[Image:BlueT000.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The army weapons officer states that Blue Thunder's six barrels are capable of firing 4000 rounds a minute.]]
[[Image:BlueT001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the Vulcan cannon firing.]]
[[Image:BlueT001a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The turret shows that the Vulcan can be fired at a 90 degree angle.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 27==
Carried by the LA police officer that stops Kate on the bridge.

[[Image:BlueT006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kate ([[Candy Clark]]) is stopped by police officers carrying the S&W Model 27.]]

"Smith & Wesson Model 27"?
I doubt it. It´s way too small (more of a K-frame size) and where are the adjustable sights?
Looks more like a Model 10 or 13 to me.

==Smith & Wesson Model 10 .38 Snubnose==
Colonel Cochrane ([[Malcolm McDowell]]) takes out his [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] snubnose and fires at Murphy as he takes off with Blue Thunder.

Officer Frank Murphy ([[Roy Scheider]])points his .38 snub at an angry mechanic while he sits in Blue Thunder.
[[Image:BlueT003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"You talkin' to me?" Murphy aims his .38 at a helicopter mechanic.]]

==[[M230 Chain Gun]]==
The Hughes M230 30mm Chain Gun is typically mounted on the AH-64 Apache, but two are mounted on Col. Cochrane's Hughes 500 helicopter.

[[Image:BlueT002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Twin chainguns are seen mounted on the Cochrane's Hughes helicopter.]]

==M60 Machine Gun==

SWAT officers try to knock down Blue Thunder with their M60 machine guns.
[[Image:BlueT004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SWAT officer fires his M60 at Blue Thunder. The M60 appears to have a brass catcher.]]
[[Image:BlueT005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another SWAT officer with his M60.]]

==M16A1 ==

SWAT officers use M16's to take down Blue Thunder during the chase in the Los Angeles river.

==Ithaca 37==
Seen being fired by police officers and carried by SWAT officers.

==Trivia Section==
* The "Blue Thunder" chopper in reality is a French Aerospatiale Gazelle with the cockpit section modded. This cockpit section was also used as part of a Mil-24 Hind in the movie ''[[Firefox]]''.

[[Image:Firefox07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Blue Thunder cockpit as seen in ''[[Firefox]]''.]]
[[Category:Movie]]