Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Heat

2011-04-26T01:01:14Z

August.allocco:

==Views==

It's amazing we've reached nearly 80,000 views for this page. I remember how happy we were when it hit 50,000...which doesn't seem like it was all that long ago. Probably won't be much longer before we hit 100,000. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Over 130,000 now. Crazy. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

This discussion must be pretty old; the view are now over 230,000!! [[User:jackbel]]

==Has anyone seen this?==

http://fateoflegions.blogspot.com/2008/06/movie-guns-x.html

I'm just curious because although his list isn't as thorough as ours, he seems to have some very high-quality screenshots which look way better than those on my DVD. I especially like the screenshot of Trejo's Norinco AK, which shows the barrel and front sight in better detail. Blu Ray, perhaps?

: The clearer shots already disproved one of my own recollections and I will fix it. I could have sworn that I saw M16A1 uppers mounted onto SP1 lowers on the set. (it was fourteen years ago!) But the clearer BLURAY shots show Wes Studi's rifle to be an M16A1 lower, not the SP1 lower I thought it was. Fooey! I pulled one of those Franken-guns from the inventory (though I can't be sure if that gun ever was in HEAT) and photographed it for nothing. I will change it back. As for this guy's list, he has much clearer High Def shots, but his information isn't nearly as accurate as IMFDB's page. [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

:: ''I always used to think it was a continuity error...the first shot (where he's firing at the car) clearly shows a gun with a mil-spec A1-style receiver, but it does look like an SP1 lower in the next scene, right before he shoots Kilmer. If it weren't for the Blu Ray shots, I would have continued to think this way.''

:''The guy thought the 733s in the film were M4A3s just because of the DVD title sequence. Pretty funny. I wish I had thought to nab more shots, many of the ones he took were ones I didn't bother because I thought the ones we had were good enough. Should have followed my gut. His page is a little more complete but less correct, as far as I'm concerned.-GM''
::''There's also the phenomenon of having '''too many screen caps''', something I'm seeing on some pages (look at Dogs of War, the changes that aren't mine.). I know that some guys get all excited about their ability to post screen caps, but having literally DOZENS of images of the same guns is really '''beating a dead horse''' and makes the page cumbersome and annoying to look at. The last thing I want are to have IMFDB movie pages resembling people's MYSPACE pages ... cluttered, hard to navigate and generally irritating. So far I think your ratio of 'useful' images is just fine. These other guys don't know when there is '''too much of a good thing'''. ''
::''Also IMFDB has the advantage of multiple users checking and re-checking the pages. Sure some of the pages have work to do, but they will eventually be 100% done. '' [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

::What is this so called M4A3? I've never heard of it. So after the A1, there's an A2 and an A3 as well? Are we talking about what Colt makes or what Bushmaster makes? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
:::No such variant exists. Someone mistook another Colt variant I guess and soon it spread around as improper fact. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::I see. Well I can somewhat understand some people when they look at AR-15 type weapons as the same rifle because they all share the same basic design. I used to look and see every shorty M16 variant as an M4 before I knew more about the M4 and also used to not know that the M4 is the burst verison and the A1 is auto with the removable carrying handle [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

:Hey, guys, there is no Blu-Ray of Heat yet, unfortunately.
:UPDATE ON DAT ISSUE: Yes there is, now. By the way, above is me as well.-protoAuthor 19:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

==Bosko ([[Ted Levine]])==
The first casualty of the bank robbery gun battle. What type of gun was he using? [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 03:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:The rent-a-cop with the ankle holster? Or out in the street? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 15:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

::Out in the street. I though it was a G36K or something but I can't be sure. [[User:GoldDragon|GoldDragon]] 02:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:::''I know this is kind of an old comment, but the G36 series wasn't around when the movie was filmed (1994-95), and it wouldn't have been imported to the U.S. until 1998, about two years after it entered service with the ''Bundeswehr''. Anyway, Bosko uses one of the M16A1s with A2 handguards that are used by most of the other detectives in the shootout, including Detective Casals.''

== M4 ==

During the van rubbery DiNero and Killmer used M4s.

:No, they used Colt Model 733s. - [[user:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]
:Is a ''"rubbery"'' something like a ''"shrubbery"''? And who is ''DiNEro'' ("Money" in spanish) and ''KILLmer''? Just kidding LOL!~ ;) - [[user:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Help! ==

Someone fucked up the pictures with Â letters, i fixed that. Now, some of the pictures don't show for some reason. - [[User:Flying Dane]]

== Fixed ==

It's okay, I fixed them. They had some long spaces in them. Alienqueen11.

== MoviePropMaster2008 edit ==

I deleted the MoviePropMaster2008 edit because of it's non-encyclopedic tone. If discussions about a certain gun in the article are to be made, I think it should be done here in the discussion section. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 23:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

:Well, that's fine, but then at the very least, you should have the courtesy to copy and paste the comments into this section rather than deleting them completely, as I have done here.

Alright. I'll be sure to do that in the future. [[User:Johnnieblue|Johnnieblue]] 19:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== Conversation on the FNC ==

MP2008 had a really good conversation going about which variant of FNC is carried by Vincent in this movie. I have now revived it for this section:

: Well, you've been very busy, [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]], though you're making an entirely educated guess (not a bad one) The 70-30 is a Para length barrel semi auto FNC designed for Law Enforcement use and sale only , so that would be a good guess. However, The FNCs on the set WERE full auto (I was there), but Director Michael Mann directed Al Pacino to fire semi auto only (which is pretty cool since police should NOT go full auto on street full of civilians). From what I remember, Pacino's gun was a pre-1985 American imported FNC 223 rem Sporter that was converted and had the barrel chopped WAY down to mimic the Para rifles and had a M16A1 style birdcage flash hider installed (see pic) by the movie armorers. FN imported American shorter FNC guns 'called' the para rifle, but the American barrels were several inches longer than the one seen in the movie, so this one was chopped down to look more like the European Para Models of the FNC.

[[Image:HEAT FNC Short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pacino with a chopped down FNC rifle - note the M16A1 style birdcage flash hider, the original FNCs used Belgian FN FAL style flash hiders and the Para Models had an ultra short version of the same Belgian design.]]

:Harry Lu was the lead armorer (same guy who just did Rambo (2008)), but he's the head coordinator. There were a LOT of trainers and gun handlers on location - it was a big shoot with lots of actors/stuntmen handling live weapons. Lu, like most armorers, acquired the guns from rental houses. At the beginning of the filming of the Street battle, the FNCs were provided by Mike Papac of Cinema Weaponry, but the filming went a lot longer than anticipated, and rifles apparently were swapped out with guns provided by Syd Stembridge of Stembridge Gun Rentals of Glendale (according to everyone's recollection), it's been almost 14 years since that shoot so everyone is working from memory. I too must check it for sure. What I remember and what Mike or Syd or Harry tell me may differ so I will try to get a pic of Pacino's exact gun or at least get the exact model and make info. ...[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

How do you get images onto imfdb i am really stumped

:''Use "Upload File" under the "Toolbox" section (visible on the left menu, below "Search"). To actually display images in an article, copy and paste some of the code from any article of your choice (you can use the code that I used on this page to display the image of Pacino with the FNC, above).''

::I don't remember what I said to which MPM replied. Anyone remember? [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Gonna fix my own pics==
Will probably be replacing the pic I uploaded of the Colt 733 since mine is actually an M16A1 with a Colt Sporter Carbine top, chopped down to resemble a 733. I am trying to get a REAL (marked) 733 that hasn't been altered by a gunsmith (that's pretty hard in this town). Too many of the guns are outfitted with outlandish RIS rails, lasers, scope mounts, and they're nearly unrecognizable. And if I'm borrowing someone else's gun to snap pics of I don't want to have to completely rebuild their gun. ;) Just giving everyone a heads up. (MPM2008)
:Is that why these guns have A2 recievers and yours has an A1? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==New pics==
How does our number 1 page look now that I added some extra shots? I'm quite proud of my Norinco Type 56-1 pic. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Comment regarding the first shot of the FN FNC section.==
The screencap you have would appear to show no one but civilians in Vincent's line of fire. However, the shots immediately before show Vincent and his soon-to-be-deceased partner coming under fire from Shirelis as he hops into the getaway car. Considering that most no one short of a robot's going to have enough wherewithal to know when to stop firing THAT quickly, it can be reasonably assumed that Vincent still believed he had a good bead. I wouldn't slight him for that one. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

== Discussion of "Fragmentation" ==

Hello.

I noticed a over enthiusiastic, but inccorect passage regarding the secondary wounding mechanism of "fragmentation" in the Colt 733 article, and editted it appropriately.

Fragmentation is well documented to be a function of velocity. While certain rounds can fragment at lower velocities (ie, MK262 Mod 0/Mod 1, Nosler OTM, etc) it remains a constant that a high velocity = higher chance of fragmentation. As a result, the statement that rounds fired from the 733 fragment violently, similiar to an "explosion" is completely false.

As is documented in reports by Dr. Martin L. Fackler, and in testing, the reliable fragmentation threshold for common military 5.56 rounds (Vietnam era 55 grain M-193 and modern green tip 62 grain M-855) is 2700 feet per second. The M733 with it's 10.7" barrel will produce velocities in the low 2600 range at the muzzle (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/john.ppt#3, a US SOCOM report concerning the modern MK 18, 10.5" barreled grandchild of the M733) , and as such, will not provide very good fragmentation at distances beyond punching range.

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_2700.html

==FNC rifle update==
I changed the entry for the FNC rifle. I spoke to all of the armorers on set on this film and everyone says that the rifle was a full auto FNC (imported in the early 1980s) that was chopped and fired semi only at the behest of Director Mann. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

==1911 & clones handguns==
The handgun seen on the SISs officier near the end seems to be an LA Vickers Custom, based on the Springfield Loaded pistol, with an extended magwell (you can clearly see the extension on the pistol). The LA Vickers Custom was one of the 1911 handguns delivered by Property Division to the LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom II was selected as standard issue for the LAPD (and later the Kimber SIS for the SIS officers)

:It's possible, but I dunno if you can assume that. It's always a bad idea to assume that just because a certain law enforcement agency/unit or military uses a particular gun in real life, the exact same weapon is being used in a particular movie. There are a lot of movies that depict NYPD officers using Glock 17s instead of 19s, or that depict Secret Service Agents using SIG-Sauer P226s instead of P228s/P229s, for instance. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Yeah sure, but it looks like they at least tried to replicate it. Well i think we can say its a Government pistol with a magwell extension.

==Empty P220 anyone==
During the ending section, where Neil shots Trejo, Van Zant and Waingro, then shoots at Hannah, he fires a total of 8 rounds from his P220. Now correct me if i'm wrong, but a P220 carries an 8 round mag of .45 ACP rounds, so when Neil is lying in wait for Hannah just before the end, wouldn't he be empty? That is, of course, if he never reloaded.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
:Why wouldn't he have reloaded?
::Perhaps he had 1 round in the chamber, plus the 8-round magazine. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::True, but that would still only warrant him one more shot.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

He had fired the weapon previously, not firing the complete magazine. He then makes an exit from his "combat zone", no competent shooter in the world would enter a new "combat zone" (i.e. the hotel) with an intended purpose of using that weapon against unknown number of combatants with a half empty, low-cap magazine. Not only is this something a trained shooter would do (as the film suggest Neil has autodidactically become), it is simply common sense to do so and I stress to think of anyone who would make this mistake.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 10:48, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

==Car Chase==
It's funny: I was just on the street in downtown L.A. today where they filmed the shootout in this movie between the LAPD and McCauley's gang. Remember the part where McCauley, Cheritto, and Shiherlis got in the getaway car and drove off only to be stopped by a police roadblock? They made that sequence seem longer than it really would've been in reality. When I was on Fifth Street today, I looked, thought about it, and realized: they drove roughly one block before stopping, but it seemed like a much greater distance in the film. Just wanted to point that out. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Well, what can I say...you've stumbled upon one of the nuances of direction. Depending on editing and filming, a scene like that can appear to take place over a longer distance than it actually does. Even though Mann might have only been able to get the city to close down one or two blocks for filming (which, when you think about it, makes perfect sense), they can still make the scale of the battle feel larger and more epic with good direction. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh yeah, its still a great scene. In my opinion, I think it is one of the greatest movie gunbattles ever. It reminds me of the escalator shootout at Grand Central Station in ''[[Carlito's Way]]''. It kept going for a really long time because it was a very epic gunfight. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

==Hanna's Guns==
I was also just thinking about this: the filmmakers got most of the LAPD's weapons right. Patrol Officers carry Beretta's and Remington's (of course I don't think the LAPD used Mossbergs, but whatever. Maybe they did, idk), SWAT carries 1911's, MP5s, etc. You get the point. But what I found really interesting was Hanna's choice of weapons. A Colt Officer's ACP with ivory grips and an FN FNC. Now those are weapons I've never heard of any American police department using. Anyways, I just thought that was kinda odd. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree but on the other hand, I think, plot-wise or character-wise Hanna's choice makes sense.
Maybe Hanna's guns were chosen for dramatic reasons, to show, how much a loner he was. You know, he's not playing by the rules, so he doesn't use the same guns as the rest of the team. And since he's the best cop ever, of course he's allowed to carry any gun he wants. Something like that. There are many movies in which the hero-cops carry stranger guns (Remember Sam Elliott playing a NY-cop with a .45 Winchester Magnum LAR Grizzly Pistol?).
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 07:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

With obvious reason, undercover officers, especially those conducting long term investigation with a cover, quite often are assigned with weapons that are not standard department issue (or often smaller carry pieces of those weapons). In the case of Sam Elliot's character, this is an obvious exaggeration and the weapon what just picked to be cool. Hanna's gun, I'm guessing, was just Mann picking a very cool little gun that he liked and thought would give Hanna some extra personality.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 21:56, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

==KP90==
:I do not think that Cheritto would be the kind of guy who would use this sort of pistol over something better like a Hi-Power or M1911. He seems like a fellow "Gun Guy", who would not be caught dead with such a crappy sidearm-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

What makes the KP90 so "crappy"?
I´ve shot a few rounds with a P89 some years ago. Can't say, it was a bad gun.

BTW I´ve always been under the impression, there are no really bad guns. Only bad shots.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 13:38, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

:It doesn't matter how good a shot you are if your pistol falls apart when you fire it-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

And the KP90 tends to "fall apart"? Never heard of that. Any experiences?
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 07:49, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't, a lot of the P-series Rugers have a reputation for reliability earning them the nickname "Bricks with Triggers." S&WShooter, just because you don't like a certain gun doesn't mean that everyone agrees with you or that a gunman's credibility should be questioned because he chooses to carry it. Your opinion is not the final say on a gun's quality. For instance, many people prefer weapons with double-action triggers like the P-series Rugers over the single action 1911 and Hi-Power you adore so much.

S&WShooter is an example of "MY BRANDS ARE BEST!!! REST ARE CRAP!!!" kind of person. Little experiance yet big talk.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:33, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== Chuck Adamson. The real life inspiration for Vincent Hanna.==
[[Image:St46 (2).jpg|thumb|350px|none|([[Chuck Adamson]]) as Barry Dorgan in blue blazer in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''. Adamson was the real life inspiration for the character Vincent Hanna in ''[[Heat]]''.]]
He retired as a Lt. with the Chicago PD. He was the guy that Micheal Mann modeled Vincent Hanna after. He was a technical advisor on ''[[Heat]]'' and I believe the televison series ''[[Crime Story]]'' which was also produced by Mann.Chuck Adamson passed away on 02/22/2008. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:That's interesting. I remember hearing Hanna was based on a real cop, but didn't know much about him. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:57, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

:On the special DVD release of ''Heat'' there is an interview with Adamson. He talks about an actual case that he worked in the early sixties in Chicago and how they ended up taking down the crew in a gun battle. Evidently this case was the inspiration for the television show ''Crime Story'' and the two movies ''L.A. Takedown'' and ''Heat''. Supposedly Adamson and [[Dennis Farina]] worked together when they were both Chicago cops. Just some interesting neat to know trivia. Impress people at parties. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:11, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== Duct tape? ==

At the beginning, I see DeNiro's Colt Model 654 with duct tape on the handguard. Is there a purpose for it? Because this has always bothered me when I rewatch the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
: I don't know this for sure, but I would guess that it's to either make damn sure there are no fingerprints, or help it burn with that incendiary, or help with gripping the gun some way, or just look cool. Knowing Michael Mann, it's probably one of the former three, rather than the latter, and I'm guessing mostly the grip one.-protoAuthor 19:27, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
::Well, we can rule out the first option because De Niro is wearing gloves. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 21:39, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
::I thought the duct tape was attaching a stop watch to the rifle, could be wrong though. -Toadvine

Here is what I read on TvTrope's page on gun accessories 'Soldiers often wrap tape around the base of a magazine to make it easier to handle, since it's usually smooth; companies such as Magpul now make slide-on grips, purpose-built magazine baseplates which include grips, and even whole magazines with gripped sides. Other options include transparent polymer magazines so you can more easily see how much ammunition you have left (with the downside that so can everyone else). Tape is also commonly wrapped around the base of a magazine to differentiate one end from another, which can be difficult in the heat of the moment, as most magazines are symmetrical. Tape can also be used to signify different bullet types within the magazine.' --~~

:::Toadvine is correct. He has duct tape on the hand guards because he has a stop watch attached to the rifle, which he uses to time the police response. It has nothing to do with making the rifle easier to hold (and TyTrope's page is talking about '''magazines'''; we're talking about the '''hand guards''', so that discussion is irrelevant). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:52, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

As a minor and more-or-less irrelevant point, I wrote more or less that entire page. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 04:28, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

Kind of cinematic/firearms related but I remember seeing a movie in the 1980's called "[[L.A. Takedown]]" and when I saw ''[[Heat]]'' I thought they had ripped off the movie. Then I read an article which confirmed Mann had made both and had considered the former a "dress rehearsal" for the latter. Anyways, I remember in ''"Takedown"'' the lead actor in the movie used a [[Franchi SPAS-15]] in the final shootout proving, at least in my opinion, Mann always managed to make the weapons in his productions as exotic as the actors in them. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:Well maybe for LA Takedown, but in his other movies from Heat, Collateral, Miami Vice, and Public Enemies, the weapons weren't really "exotic". Maybe the SIG 552 used in Miami Vice, but all other guns since Heat were pretty normal. To me, it's the style of combat that is shown in Mann's movies that catches your eyes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:01, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

::Actually I should have said Mann delivers a little more variety in his flicks, television shows. With most "standard" police/crime dramas they have the usual firearms (Glocks, Berettas, AR-15 clones of some sort) whereas Mann adds things like the Strayer-Voigt Tiki in [[Miami Vice]], the FNC in [[Heat]], that sort of thing. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 21:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Hanna also used a nickel plated [[SIG-Sauer P226]] in "LA Takedown", further proving your point. I know someone using a SIG isn't that uncommon nowadays, but it was rare back in 1989. At that time, only ''[[Rambo: First Blood Part II]]'' and ''[[Robocop]]'' featured the 226. And this was the first time that a nickel model was used. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 05:43, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I too remember "LA Takedown". I thought it was cool to see the USAS-12 in action. I'm pretty sure it was the USAS-12 and not a Franchi SPAS-15. The only reason being that it was making the firearms writers circuit at the time, and it stood out with the 10-shot magazine onscreen. I still think that part of the anniversary Edition of HEAT should have been inclusion of LA Takedown, as I've not found a Region 1 DVD of it! - BC2009 19 December 2009

::::The shotgun used in "L.A. Takedown" was a SPAS-15, not a USAS-12. There are plenty of screengrabs of the movie online which confirm that the SPAS-15 was used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

I stand corrected. I found video clips of the movie, including the bank heist/shootout. Daniel Baldwin started out with the SPAS-15. Standing erect in a "proper" hi-power rifle stance. God I'm glad to see part of the movie again!

== A social history of the SPAS-15 (from an old fart) ==

Not only was the SPAS-15 considered to be exotic when it was used in ''[[L.A. Takedown]]'', but thanks to an executive order signed by President George Bush (the first one) it wasn't being imported into the United States along with many other foreign manufactured "assault weapons". It's my understanding that very few (I don't have an exact count) were shipped into the U.S. before Bush had an knee jerk reaction to a school shooting in Stockton(?) California in 1988 and stopped the importation of a whole bunch of different firearms based on their cosmetic appearances. I believe the shooter in Stockton used some type of AK-47 variant. Some of you guys are too young to remember the eighties and early nineties. And you're lucky.

There was approximately a fifteen year stretch from 1979 - 1994. It started with a school shooting in San Diego, California on 01/29/1979 (Brenda Ann Spencer. When asked why she stated "I don't like Mondays. Which was the inspiration for the song by the Boomtown Rats "I don't Like Mondays".) and culminating with the signing of the so called "Crime Bill" in 1994 by Clinton in which gunowners couldn't catch a break. Not one. Well there were a couple wins for us, but not many.Everytime you turned around some city or state was (effectively) outlawing gunownership and gunowners were ignored and percieved as whackos. Believe it or not things are better now. Much better in my opinion.

Actually one could argue that the real bad times for American gunowners started with Whitman and his shooting spree from the tower in Austin, Texas or perhaps when the WWII veteran went on a shooting spree in Trenton, New Jersy in 47/48. But I remember the 79 shooting and that's where I started keeping track.

Anyway the SPAS-15 was a victim of that time period. Just look at this as FYI. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:21, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
::To be fair, no one was importing the SPAS-15 as of May 1989 when the suspension of importation of 'assault weapons' started (temporarily and then made permanent via very fanciful 're-interpretation of existing law' by the ATF). Bush the elder could only temporarily suspend imports being that they were LEGAL and LAWFUL items. But the ATF managed to figure out a way to re-interpret the 'sporting clause' for imported guns from the Gun Control Act of 1968. But by 1989 there weren't that many SPAS-15 shotguns in the country. They were too expensive, too clunky and shotguns like the Benelli M series of shotguns were the 'cool' tactical shotguns to have. I tried to find a SPAS-15 in 1989 and the only ones out there were used ones, no new ones had been imported for YEARS due to poor sales. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:29, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

==The new pic that Ben41 uploaded==
With the supposed M16A1 with A2 handguards. that looks like a Heavy barrel, so it would NOT be an A1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:23, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

So it's an actual A2? Should it be changed?--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
:How can it be an M16A2? It has an M16A1 receiver.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
::Huh? The only difference between an A1 and A2 lower receiver (other than the 3 round burst) is that the back end of the A2 receiver is slightly fatter to resist cracking the ring that holds the rear buffer tube. How can you tell it's an A1 lower? I have to HOLD the two together in person in order to see the difference. Now if it's an SP1 lower, then that can be seen from a distance. If it is an SP1 lower (aka original M16 slab side) then an AR15 Heavy barreled upper receiver was installed on it. Either way, it's a franken gun and should be described in as much detail as possible. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:28, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
:::It's a franken gun. We all know that. But we can't call it an M16A2 because of the lower receiver. I'm talking about the whole receiver here. The A1 lower and the A2 lower are almost the same thing. Except for the grip if you can say that the grip is part of the receiver. But the uppers are very different. I can tell the difference between the M16A2 and the M16 in Heat because of the upper receiver. The M16A2 upper has an Brass defletor and an different rear sight while the M16A1 upper has no deflector and a different sight. Of course I don't really know if the barrel is part of the upper receiver or if it can be removed. I also don't know if the sights can be separeted from the A1 or the A2 receiver, though.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

==Video Game==
:I hope it actually gets made [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0803002/]

:I don't know. Movie games tend to suck. It hasn't had a really good track record [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

:That's usually when games are released the same day the movie is, causing the developers to rush-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:49, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

True. The Godfather games are good but they were able to take their time on both of them.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 09:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

== Reorganizing Page ==

What do people think about reorganizing page by weapons? Since this is one of the most popular pages, I wanted to see if it's okay before I do it. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 18:30, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it wouldn't be a bad idea. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:What do you have in mind for order? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]\\

I was thinking by type of gun.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 10:44, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
: With a Page that gets so many views from the general public, I was theorizing about a change in how we normally organize sections. Previously we did it from smallest to largest (Pistols, SMGs, Assault rifles/Rifles, Shotguns, LMGs, HMGs, Destructive Devices, Misc) But the MOST asked questions in the blogosphere/internet deals with the assault rifles used in the street shootout. That one scene spawns the most questions asked by the general (and generally gun ignorant public), so I was wondering if we should begin the page with the most asked about weapons (Assault rifles, SMGS, Shotguns, handguns), basically going in reverse order for this one page. Most of the curiosity revolves around Al Pacino's FNC and the Colt 733s used in the fight. Just a thought. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:20, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

: ''BTW, I'm getting a photo of a REAL 733 tonight. Keep an eye out! WOO HOO! (the previous pic was one of my guns that was just a chopped carbine (when I bought it) so the pic is actually a fake 733, just like the C&C HK94s or the fake MP5Ks made from SP89s)'' [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:20, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Why not organizing guns by order of appearance? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Since this is a reference site, I find that it's easier to look it up by the type of weapon rather than by trying to remember when a particular weapon appeared in the film. This doesn't have to be the case for every film, but one with so many weapons featured, I think the way MPM talked about would work best. Let me know what the consensus is. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:06, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
::I agree with Ben41. For pages with 10+ guns I find that it is easier to look for something if it is categorized by type, especially when there are so many screencaps per weapon. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 02:19, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

:What about type of guns and in each section, you list guns by order of appearance? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Hanna is shooting at Shiherlis ==

[[Image:HeatFNFNC-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hanna fires his [[FN FNC|FN FNC-80]] at... nothing. Hanna tells his men before the gunfight to take clear shots and watch their backgrounds. All I see in his firing line is running civilians. This half of the screen was likely not visible in the original release, which wasn't in anamorphic widescreen.]]

In this image, the caption said that Hanna was shooting at no one and looks to be firing at bystanders. In reality, this shot was taken at the exact same time Shiherlis stopped shooting and finally got into the getaway care, and when the suppressing fire from Shiherlis stopped, Hanna came out of cover to shoot back, only to see Shiherlis wasn't there anymore. In my opinion, Hanna seems to be shooting at where Shiherlis was a moment ago before he stepped into the car. The camera angle makes it appear he's shooting directly ahead, when he is shooting towards the getaway car. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:35, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

This is definitely a camera angle quirk, my guess is that he is firing at the back window of the vehicle.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 10:54, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

If you look closely, you can see that Shiherlis isn't in the car yet. Watch the film closely, and you see that Hanna opens fire as soon as Shiherlis opens the car door. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 15:54, 16 March 2011 (CDT)

== Organizing ==

I'm just organizing some pages. I'm not changing the text or screencaps, but I'm anal and I am grouping the firearms by type. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

== Andy McNab training ==

I just saw the behind the scenes feature and I didn't know the famous SAS operator, Andy McNab was behind the training for the De Niro and his bank robber characters and a different SAS guy, Mike Gould, training for police did Al Picino and his guys [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:12, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

well for an actor , al pacino dose a lot of running in the down town shootout.simmons 8492

What does that have to do with the training he and the other actors recieved? --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:48, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

well obviously he had to train for that scean, im sure all the actors did , im just suprised that he did it and wasnt needing oxygen after. just saying. simmons 8492

::Oh got ya. Actually Pacino should have been sweating and breathing hard at the end of the bank robbery gunfight. He might also have been shaking a little bit from all the adrenalin blasting through his body. Oh well movie magic. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:44, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

In the movie both Hanna and McCauley are former marines (Nate's intel on Hanna and McCauley's arm tat when he wakes up at Eady's). --[[User:Devang.dn|Devang.dn]] 02:57, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

put pacino and De Niro arent , so that SAS trainer realy got them in shape. simmons 8492

And you have to think movie production. They do scenes, especially big shootout scenes in sections and not one big go...Most of the time. They also do a lot of retakes as well as position the camera on different angles so it looked like they ran farther than they actually did. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Not sure where I read this but the whole scene was filmed within a block or two , due to camera tricks it looks like they covered a lots of distance. --[[User:Devang.dn|Devang.dn]] 16:56, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

thats true , but mann isint like those others . he dosent do the whole cut up shit . he probable had them redo it to get it right . simmons 8492

::It's very well-known that McNab and Gould were the weapons/tactics advisers on this movie. Gould also makes a cameo in the film. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:56, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

who dose he play? simmons 8492

In the film we know that both Hanna and McCauley were former US Marines, but would a Marine receive the extent of training needed to be proficient in CQB as portrayed by the two main characters in the film? I mean think about it; Hanna and McCauley would have joined the Marine Corp probably during the 70's or early 80'. Now I am unfamiliar with how exactly US Army and Marine Corp trained soldiers during that time in regards to trigger discipline and CQB, but I know that the training soldiers receive now in CQB is different then the CQB training given in the past. When I asked my father, who joined the Army as an Infantry officer in the late 70's, about the training he received in regards to CQB he told me he didn't really receive CQB training at all. I know that special forces groups such as the British SAS were masters in CQB during those eras but what about regular infantry? I also know that Hanna would have received more training throughout his career as a cop, but what about McCauley? I point out McCauley cause he probably would have left the Marine Corps sometime in the mid 80's, and started his criminal career most likely after he got out. AND YES I KNOW THIS IS JUST A MOVIE. -[[User:Choi117|Choi117]]

:Ok, Marine training is a little different from the regular army. I've heard from the older Marines I know about how they joke how the Army "ain't shit" compared to them. The Marines have always been a bit more specialized than the Army since WWII. McCauley most likely honed his CQB tactics during his career as a robber. Obviously he and the others on his team had worked long enough as a unit 02:13, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

first off , damm second im sure the marines trained him well enough in CQB . i mean being out of the service dosent realy matter . muscel memory kicks in and McCauly rembers all the things he was taught and does them without even thing . simmons 8492

first off , let me just say that heat is one of the best fims , second the entire LA bank job and shoot out , from when De Nero walks in to the bank , til pacino kills Tom sizemore is easly the best shootout in film history . and the training the entire cast went threw is mind blowing , al pacino running to De Neros CQB training , michael mann did an outstanding job . it is my opnion that this is movie gold. simmons 8492

i know this is a bit out of place , but i was watching this last night and wanted to know , when hanna is looking for McCauley in the airfield he fires his sidearm 4 time with three rounds in a nice triangular shape . my question is , where did his first round hit ? once again , i know this is out of place but i fiugred he would have been trained where to shoot him . [[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Cheritto's Galil==
What confused me during the bank shootout was that unlike his partners Chris and McCauley who were armed with Colt 733s, why was Cheritto armed with an IMI Galil ARM during the bank robbery? The person who wrote the Colt 733 section gave a good description of why the crew used Colt 733s in the bank job. However, no one really gave a good reason why Cheritto was armed with a rifle that was a longer barrel and even with its buttstock folded sticked out underneath his blazer when exiting from the bank. Was there a practical tactical reason for Cheritto to be armed with the Galil or did the production simply didn't have enough Colt 733s? [[User:Choi117|Choi117]]

:'''Story-wise''', the answer is probably that McCauley's crew was unable to purchase enough ARs for all of them. '''Behind the scenes''', my guess is that Michael Mann just really wanted to have a Galil in the movie. Of course, there are short-barreled versions of the Galil available, which would have made more sense for concealment purposes, but maybe Stembridge (the company which supplied the weapons for ''[[Heat]]'') didn't have any short-barreled Galils in stock. Any way, short answer is that there is probably no practical reason. This is a movie. You are over-thinking it too much.

:On a side note, the original script had them all using HK53s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:22, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Isn't the Galil ARM pretty much a light machine gun variant of the AR and can substan more automatic fire than most light barreled assualt rifle? Maybe the needed some sort of support gunner as he does have five more bullets in his mags and can lay down fire much more than your standard M733.---P226 21:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Too bad we didn't see much shots of him in the movie using the Galil. It would have been nice [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. Heh, guess we have Pacino to blame for the Galil's lack of use.--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 23:19, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Well Cheritto isn't the top character, he isn't even top billing. Otherwise, he would have been on the movie poster [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Just so happened that this movie was an TV tonight, and I turned on just after the shoot-out started. Would I be correct in assuming that the Galil that is used is a semi automatic only conversion? It seems that he only ever fires with it in SA, and considering the prolific use of full auto by the other characters, if this gun was capable he would have fired in full auto also. It makes the choice of gun even stranger, considering it rules out the possibility that he was using it as a sort of LSW as the original ARM was intended. Suppose it could just be personal preference, also to the layman the Galil has the look of an "Evil" gun, and is used by the sort of person who picks up a child as a shield. This contrasts with the other two more sympathetic robbers, who use the "Good" looking Armalite type weapons. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:50, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the Galil looks like an "evil" gun? It has an exotic look and feel to it but not "evil" about it. We also don't get any real character development from Cheritto than we do for the other two guys on the team. If you remember the opening armored car robbery, he was using a FAL while the other 2 veterans had their AR-15s [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:32, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, but you are not the layman in terms of guns. I do not see at as an "evil" gun either, but to the majority of the public, the Galil looks like an AK, so looks evil. Was just my take on the character that he was less sympathetic than the other two, and was a more traditional "bad guy", so this gun was more suited to him. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 17:13, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Odd ==

Has anyone else noticed that, despite his character being married, Pacino is not wearing a wedding ring? I know it's not gun related, I just find this odd, and want to know if anyone else has seen this.--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 00:51, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Not odd at all...first its a marriage that isnt so good and second he is a high profile police officer that doesnt need the add attention of a wedding ring.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 02:16, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Huh. The first reason I get, get would a wedding really attract more attention than the big ass ring on his right hand?--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 19:10, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

To a bad guy...a wedding ring on your enemies hand means leverage.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:39, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Then doesn't him flat out telling De Niro's character that he's married defeat the purpose?--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 18:43, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

its like what denzel washington said in training day . a criminal sees that and uses it against you. and i think he tells him that so that MCcally that will either make a personial connection or make him tell hanna something about himself.-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Edited Muzzle Flash==

Just an interesting tidbit here. The third Screencap in the Star Megamaster section shows Waingrow shooting an armored car driver in the head. The muzzle flash is clearly shown. However, if you look closely at the back of the gun itself, the hammer is still cocked. I guess it was too dangerous to fire a blank that close to the actors head, even if the shooter aimed over the target's shoulder. [[User:August.allocco|August.allocco]] 20:01, 25 April 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2011-03-18T23:20:09Z

August.allocco: /* RPG Shooting */ new section

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Hey, correctness is a virtue. Good on you for doing it. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 01:39, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

::::::Those of you who were saying he was denying the enemy are correct. You'll notice that he doesn't pocket the magazine. He tosses it away. He didn't field strip it because he likely didn't know how. So the easiest thing to do would be to unload it and throw the magazine away. I was in the military and we were trained to be observant and look for things that would compromise security (like unsecured enemy weapons). One thing you never do is use ammo you find lying around on the street, and in any case, M14Fanboy was right in that the calibers of the US weapons were totally incompatible with the Soviet rounds. Smashing the rifle would have taken time and energy that needed to be spent elsewhere. Besides, it's a rifle...not an airsoft gun. Have you ever tried to smash a real AK? There's a reason it's been in service for so many years... [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 01:52, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

::::: I believe it was because he was firing his M14 until it ran out of ammo, and then using a helo crew member's M16 before retreating to reload both rifles.:::

:::- Yes, that's the case. Gordon is also seen dropping his CAR-15 when it's empty and using his 1911. Later, when Shughart is killed, he fires the M14 'til it's empty, then switching to his 1911, and when that is empty, using an MP5 from the chopper. Hell, they're being overwhelmed, and it is quicker to pick up and and shoot another weapon that is ready than reload the present one. They were pretty much using whatever they could trying their damndest to fend an army off, I would think that was obvious. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did read Mike Durant's book and would like to point out he referred to Randy's weapon as a High-Tech rifle. as we all no, it was a vietnam era M14. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:I just stared reading Durant's "In the Company of Heroes" before he called it a "German piece of crap", he said the MP5 had shot fine at the range but he probably had neglected to clean it. It was after Shughart gave him Gordon's CAR-15 which didn't jam and was far more effective despite only having half a mag left he thought of the MP5 as a piece of shit. He also had an M9 that he never drew, which he said probably saved his life since he wasn't seen as a threat. While Shughart's M14 isn't really a "High-Tech rifle" it was a lot better than a bolt-gun in the situation he was in. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

'''Don't forget about the 10th Mountain and the U.N Soldiers. Whoever created this page missed them completly and they had alot of firearms. Whats omore is i can't for some reason edit the page. the autheor needs to fix this right away'''

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::I'm fairly certain this convo is referring to the later M4 with detachable carry handle. That's why I mentioned the 727 having an A2 upper. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

All gear that is used in the US Army has to be tested. Part of this testing cycle is to give it to SF, Rangers, Delta, etc. to field it before it is approved for widespread use. Considering the length of trials and the endless bureaucracy in the DoD, it is completely plausible that these guys had the first generation of the M4 in TFR/OGS. I saw a SCAR in the wild on my latest deployment to Afghanistan last year. These guys are like the pro athletes of the military world. All sorts of manufacturers will just give them gear to use in order to try to get them to reccomend it... Optics, armor, boots, gun accessories, etc...

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

::Which is funny, because when Griz is drawing in the barracks and Busch walks up behind him, he calls him "Griz." But not "all" Delta had their names changed. Norm Hooten was really there, but for the movie they combined him with John Macejunas. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:04, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.

== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v
:Not to mention a flashlight beam in that environment would scream, "here I am, shoot me!" [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

That's Jeremy Piven, nowadays best known for playing Ari Gold on HBO's Entourage. Wikipedia says he played CFO Clifton Wolcott.

:I do not think it Piven. In the film he plays a pilot role and his hair is black.
http://files.haiguinet.com/flashupload/UploadedFiles/1252005569_159Jeremy_Piven.jpg
http://emsworth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jeremy-piven-in-black-hawk-down-2.jpg
When I put the photos on the page, before to name him "delta actor", I looked for the name of this guy in the entire cast. Unsuccessfully. I think it is a stunt.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Definitely not Piven. Maybe he's a stand-in or something. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:06, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

:::- ''Uh, I had replied below I didn't know about these gloves specifically, which you seem to have failed to notice. Just as you also seem to have failed to notice that all these comments you posted this slightly irritable and unnecessary response in-between were all posted '''days ago'''. It might help if you thoroughly read the comments and check the dates next time.'' [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Flight gloves are a very thin layer of Nomex with a Clarino palm and finger overlaid. These are very light, wick sweat, and give you tactile feeling and the ability to perform tasks as though you were bare handed. They are maybe a few mm thick on the palms, and do not affect in any way your shooting ability or accuracy, even whilst firing an M249, which is notorious for running away due to gloves getting stuck and holding the trigger back.

:::I was in the Army for 9 years, and I wore flight gloves all the time during exercises. I never had a problem with them whatsoever. I was a SAW gunner as well. Whoever posted that caption about trained operators not wearing gloves is an idiot. [[User:Cozmo|Cozmo]] 02:14, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

==Discussion about the bullets, or something==
- Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The question about observing the laws was rhetorical in nature. But I agree wholeheartedly about what you say pertaining to the HC and GC applying to people who did not sign it. Its like bringing pirates and terrorists into the US to give them civilian trials. People say they should get military trials... When according to the GC (that people are so happy to apply to the situation) pirates and terrorists are not able to receive either. We selectively apply laws to make us look good internationally, when in reality it costs money, and even worse lives of US citizens and military forces.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 12:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances full metal jacket .556 is an ideal round. When fighting a traditional battle, against an enemy that follows the rules of war, it is far better to wound the enemy than kill him. Gunner313

We haven't fought a conventional war that lasted any period of time since Korea (and you could even say WWII, since Korea was less than conventional). Also with the way the enemy works now, any intel we can gather from enemy combatants will likely be useless (if it ever was useful) by the time it gets to the guys on the ground. Also as stated by me, and others before, under 50 yards and especially against an enemy that is drugged up a FMJ is likely not going to down an enemy either by wounding him or killing him. Of course shot placement comes into play heavily, but as cases have proven a COM shot is likely not to drop a determined attacker immediately. Head and extremity shots are also very hard to make, with FMJ pretty much the only way to immediately and most important reliably drop an attacker at close range is a pelvic shot. But now days in Afghanistan most fighting is taking place on the far end if not beyond the 5.56's effective range. Also Gunner313 it is 5.56, not .556, .556mm is a really damn small projectile haha. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 14:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

One could say that the First Gulf War was conventional. we were fighting an organized military(Iraq), i still think they were a bunch of crazy towel heads hellbent on destroying the western world.[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Why is it better to wound them? -SasquatchJim.

Because then you can detain them get information from them.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. I apologize; I thought he meant that wounding them was more humane, or something. Although, dead people can't keep shooting at you; wounded ones can. -SasquatchJim

It is better to wound them because it requires the enemy to care for their wounded, they have to be treated, they have to be transported, it is demoralizing to the others to hear someone in terrible pain, so for a short time a wounding shot, takes two people out of the fight. Also the more medical supplies that have to be shipped to the front for the wounded, means less of other items such as ammo, food, fuel, misc... Gunner313

Makes sense to me. Thanks. -SJ

Well in my opinion, I still think it's better to kill the enemy rather than just wound them, that way they don't get patched up and come back later to kill you.

agreed. especially in Somalia when if their not dead their gunna come back and shoot you in the back. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:- Bah, can't believe my one off-hand comment spawned all this. Heh. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to add other than that this was really informative. This site is one of the best blind discoveries I've made on the internet. --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] 01:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Never Forget==
Sorry to post as anon, but I dont have an account but frequent the site. Just wanted to point out that today is the 17th anniversary of the US intervention in Somalia.

:- Actually the anniversary is for the mission and subsequent battle portrayed in the film. The 'intervention' began as Operation Provide Relief, which started in December 1992. Still, good to point it out. EDIT - I actually just realized that not only is it the anniversary, but the actual day is correct (That is, Oct. 3 was a Sunday, same day as the Oct. 3 in the battle). Again, pretty cool I guess. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The entire day yesterday i thought about it. i decided to watch the movie being Sunday Oct-3. i also found it fit to say a pray for the brave soldiers who lost their lives fighting to help the ungratefull bastards. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Interesting Uniform Note==

Just wanted to point out an interesting observation about the uniforms worn by the Rangers; this is one of the few films to accurately depict the transition from the 6-color "chocolate chip" camouflage made famous during Desert Storm to the 3-color "coffee stain" pattern that was used throughout the rest of the 1990's and during the invasion and early occupation of Iraq in the early 2000's. During the transition between these two camouflage patterns, it was common to see a combination of the two patterns on the same soldier; they would wear the new DCU's with the old 6-color on their PASGT helmets. Practically all the Rangers in the film have this combination.

[[Image:BHDMinimi-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[Tom Hardy]] wielding an FN Minimi as Spc. Twombly, giving us a good look at his 3-color DCU uniform and 6-color helmet cover]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun ==

What gun have Mo'alim in his shoulder? He don't remove it from the shoulder at any time, but there are two scenes where you can see:

1 When prevents the killing of Duran:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/

2 When the cannon is firing in the area of the first downed helicopter:
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/

are you referring to the AK-74u? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I think he is referring to the pistol in his shoulder holster under his left arm. Can't make it out though, will have to have a look on my Bluray version when I get a minute, but don't think it can be seen well enough to make it out. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 10:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

i wasn't aware he had a shoulder holster? can you upload a photo?[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it is a revolver or a pistol:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/
i couldnt see anything on the 2nd picture but the first was definetly a revolver. my guess, and im not expert with revolvers would be a .38 or 357 perhaps a S&W? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== Doc Schmid ==
In the movie PFC Kurt "Doc" Schmid is shown as a Ranger medic but in reality he was Delta Force. It's curious why they chose to depict him as a Ranger and not a Delta operator in the movie.

Maybe they forgot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is somewhat unrelated, but I found it really funny that Schmid is played by the same actor who later played [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185836/ Adam]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

==tapeing==
i was just watching this , and i noticed that a majority of the rangers taped the ends of the butt stocks on their rifles . Why is that?-[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]
:I believe that tape was used (not quite sure how) to attach the sling to the butt of the rifle. Tape is also used at the front of the rifle, to attach a loop of para cord around the front sight to the sling. The reason this was done was so that the sling would be attached on the top/side of the weapon, rather than the bottom (where the only fitted sling loops are) to make it more usable in combat. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:25, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

i noticed nearly all the mag's have brown tape on them, any reasons for this, or is it just purely cosmetic? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

STANAG Magazines are smooth and can be hard to grip on to to reload, especially in a high stress situation like combat. The tape helps you to grip the magazine for a speedy reload, MAGPUL makes sleeves that slide over them now. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 3:31, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Nelson's M60 ==

Is is correct to have Nelson carrying the Vietnam Era M60 over the M60E3 or E4? I'm not sure when the E3 or E4 came out.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:The M60 used in the film is an original spec M60, the same as were actually used by the Rangers in Somalia (As identified by the hand guard and bi-pod attaching at the end of the barrel). Not sure exactly when the E3 was made (started being issues in 1986), but I know there was one in the 1985 film [[Commando]]. Regardless, I don't think it was that widely used, as the lighter weight barrel and other parts made the gun more prone to overheating and malfunction. The rangers actually used a mix of M60s and FN MAGs as shown below:
:[[Image:101120ritchie20pursley8yp.jpg|thumb|500px|none]]
:Also, there has been talk on this page about what the actual weapons used by Delta where, and I cannot speak to this operation in particular, but in most of the photos I have seen of Delta force in Somalia, there are actually armed with M16A2s, normally with a telescopic sight mounted onto the carry handle (example below). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/9607/21820burns20weaver6az.jpg
::Delta operators in Somalia used Colt Model 723 carbines with M4 style barrel, at least watching the few pictures of that time. --[[User:Pz.Abt.100|X-Ray Bravo 6]] 13:54, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Did the Rangers at the time use a black ballistic vest in addition to the woodland RBAs? While searching for M60 photos saw several photos of people in black vests carrying M16A2s with an optic on the handle, also sometimes carrying shotguns and LAWs. Are these likely Rangers rather than Delta then? Also, there are pictures of rangers using colt carbines with the step down M4 type barrels, so I think there was a much wider variety of weapons used than the film shows. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
::::The Rangers only wore Woodland camo RBA (Ranger Body Armor) vests and desert-camo PASGT helmets during the operation (see the "Interesting Uniform Note" section above for info about the desert camo patterns used in the film). Black vests were Delta-issue only. Sort of like present-day spec. ops units using Dragon Skin vests while the main Army uses Interceptor/IOTV vests (though it's not as easy to tell the difference between the modern-day examples by looking at them. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

In the book there was specific mention of a couple of the Rangers being stuck with the Delta "Turtle" Armor because they didn't have enough of the Ranger vests for a while.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 09:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks, that explains photos like the following one then (also, note the Colt carbines with M4 type barrels the Rangers are carrying.)
:[[Image:RangersM4.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

:Also, can anyone shed some light as to what is going on with this SAW:
:[[Image:Saw.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
:First off, isn't this an E2, rather than the E1 as the main article says was used by the Rangers? Also, why does it look like the receiver is made of different metal, and is the sight mount a standard fitting, or something cobbled together? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 00:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Another thing the book mentions is that Delta's Armorer played gunsmith for some of the Ranger guys (at least 1 customized SAW is mentioned).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

that part of the book is referring to Spc. Waddell's SAW and i believe is was a grip that was put on. i would also like to shed some light on the fact that in 1993 only the Armys Special Ops like Delta Force had that kind of ability on their weapons, and now every soldier on the battlefield has the ability to put on optics, lights, lasers, and stocks. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:22, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes that is the part I was referring to, although I remember there being more than just a grip added, but its been a while. Also Rangers aren't basic infantry, they too are a part of USASOC. and in a combat zone leeway with weapons (also uniforms, gear, etc) is pretty much at the command's discretion. I believe that they would allow Rangers a bit of leeway with modifying their weapons in certain ways to enhance their effectiveness in a given environment. Spc. Waddell's SAW grip would have been noticed by his command at some point, and either him or the Delta armorer would have had to get permission to modify it, being that it is US Gov property (not to mention the other customized weapons we see in Ranger's hands in photos).-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 04:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Just noticing. Why do some people call it an "M4" type barrel? I mean it's a rifle in service before the M4 came out, so shouldn't it NOT be called an M4 barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:48, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

You got me on that one... Probably because most people know the "M203 Step" Barrel as an M4 feature, so it gets genericised as an "M4 Profile Barrel".-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:53, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I mean didn't they have the step down barrel before the M4 came about? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe so, but it would have only been within a couple years of the M4s debut (the Colt 727 comes to mind). Another reason would be marketing, people will pay more for a milspec carbine that has the "M203 step barrel" so companies market the rifles as having "M4 profile barrels".-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:41, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Is this the only film to have someone shooting an M16 on burst-fire mode? ==

I would kinda doubt it, but it's the only time I've ever seen it. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 06:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

You referring to when Daniel Busch is sliding out from under the Walcott bird? That's the only time I remember. [[User:Thursday|Thursday]] 07:51, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

He's referring to a point where one of the Rangers kills an approaching Somali with a three round burst from his M-16A2. Sgt. Busch is using an M727 and fires quick single shots to kill the miltia approaching the Blackhawk. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 08:16, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, can remember any burst stuff, I'll re-watch it after work. And I'm very aware Busch had a 727. I wonder why Gary Gordons rifle wasn't on burst in the movie, it was in real life. [[User:Thursday|Thursday]] 15:29, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

They're referring to the part near the end when the rangers are running out of the city and one of them guns down a woman who picks up a rifle. As for burst mode: most likely the M16 in question was a full auto weapon (as virtually all of them in Hollywood are) and the actor simply fired a couple of short bursts (possibly with some editing done by the sound and special effects teams) to make in appear as though he was using burst mode.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 17:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== RPG Shooting ==

I was just looking through the section regarding the RPGs, and noticed something peculiar. Look at the shooter in the first picture. Now look at the guy in the second. Now back at the first. Is it just me, or are the two guys shooting down the two different helicopters from two different places actually the ''exact same guy''? Notice the matching folds in their clothing, and the cloth wrapped around their heads, and their silhouettes. They're all identical. Anyone else see what I'm seeing? [[User:August.allocco|August.allocco]] 18:20, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-12-30T22:23:05Z

August.allocco: /* Discussion */

= Wonder Weapons and Miscellaneous Weapons =

== Ray Gun ==

The Ray Gun is available in Call of Duty: Black Ops, only in the Nazi Zombies game mode. While still being very powerful, the gun has a tendency to make crawlers on later rounds more often. Although this can be very useful, it can also create problems for the player, as the player may be caught unaware by them.

[[Image:446px-BORayGun.png|thumb|none|400px|The Ray Gun in-game.]]

== Wunderwaffe DG-2 ==

The Wunderwaffe only appears in Shi No Numa and Der Riese as part of the hardened and prestige editions. In the new maps, the weapon is replaced by its spiritual successor, the Thundergun. When Pack-a-Punched in Der Riese it becomes gold-plated. In one of the intel pieces, a group of wunderwaffe projects are referred to. One of the projects listed is the Die Glocke.

[[Image:Wunderwaffe_DG-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Wunderwaffe DG-2 in-game.]]

== Thundergun ==

This is a weapon featured in the level Kino der Toten. It pushes back zombies with such force that it kills them and should be used only to push back zombies if the player(s) are crowded and cornered considering its low ammunition it starts out with. It becomes the "Zeus Cannon" when upgraded. It also appears in as a easter egg in the Call of Duty: Black Ops campaign level Numbers. It is strongly hinted that it was created by Dr. Maxis.

[[Image:621px-Thundergun.png|thumb|none|400px|The Thundergun in-game.]]

== Winter's Howl ==

This weapon is featured in "Five" and Zombie Verruckt, but only in Call of Duty Black Ops. It is able to freeze zombies on impact, lowering their health drastically. In later rounds, it seems to make zombies health go down and takes a couple of seconds to freeze. It has a 6 round magazine and 24 shots in reserve. When pack-a-punched, it becomes Winter's Fury, and has a 9 round magazine and 36 shots in reserve. Frozen zombies have ice surrounding them. It is currently unknown who created it, but it is possible that the Americans created it because of where you find it (the Pentagon).

[[Image:WintersHowl.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Winter's Howl in-game.]]

== SOG Knife ==
The SOG Knife is a special knife used by the player (as Alex Mason) in the mission "Victor Charlie". This is the only time the SOG Knife is in use.

[[Image:Shot0159.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0167.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife been drawn.]]

== Tomahawk ==
The Tomahawk axe is a melee weapon that replaces the throwing knife (or tactical knife) from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'' in mutliplayer. In single-player, it's only available on the mission "Rebirth" after obtaining it from a Russian harbor worker and killing him with it.
[[Image:Tomahawk-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tomahawk in Create-a-Class.]]
[[Image:Tomahawk-BOthrow.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Tomahawk being thrown.]]

== Ballistic Knife ==
The ballistic knife is a powerful melee weapon that available only in multiplayer and zombie modes. The knife is firing blades with a spring inside the body. In real life, this knife is used by Russian special forces units like Spetsnaz.
[[Image:BK-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The ballistic knife being reloaded.]]

== Crossbow ==

The Crossbow is a new weapon that featured in ''Call of Duty: Black Ops''. It is speculated to fulfill the role of a quiet, long range weapon. The crossbow appears in the campaign mission "WMD", which is set in the Ural Mountains, 1968. Crossbows can have different types of bolts which it can fire, such as normal bolts and Explosive bolts. The crossbow is a military grade crossbow that can attach a scope, which the player can steady.

[[Image:Shot0205.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Crossbow in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0206.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Crossbow in reloading.]]

== Flamethrower ==

A flamethrower of unknown model has been confirmed to be in Call of Duty: Black Ops as found in the "GKnova6 document" which can be found here: [http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr135/priceman14/doc10.jpg]
The document only refers to it as "Improvised Weaponry" in "Phase 1 Testing" with most of the other information redacted.

Another model appears as an underbarrel attachment.

The image used by www.codblackopsblog.com
[http://www.codblackopsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Black-Ops-Weapons-Flamethrower.jpg]

Reference image of Flamethrowers in Call of Duty: World at War, a past Treyarch game that featured flamethrowers. Image from www.gameinformer.com
[http://blog.al.com/techcetera/2008/12/Pelilucodwaw.jpg]

[[Image:PSG1pic.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Flamethrower mounted on FAMAS F2 FELIN. ''Note ankward M16 handguard'']]

== Main Knife ==

The knife returns in Call of Duty: Black Ops. It is still a one-hit kill, but unlike the previous versions, seems to cause a very large fountain of blood to appear after knifing an enemy.

[[Image:659px-KnifeBlackOpsMultiplayer.png|thumb|none|500px|The Main Knife in-game.]]

== Prison Knife ==

The Prison Knife is a melee weapon used in the mission "Vorkuta" in Call of Duty: Black Ops. It appears to be a jagged piece of scrap metal, similar to a 'shank' or 'shiv'. After Mason acquires another weapon, the prison knife is no longer equipped, and is only used by pressing the melee button. You can see blood on the blade, probably from stabbing the prison guard. Upon closer expection though, I found out it is just a piece of glass with black tape around the handle.

[[Image:624px-Prisonknife.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The Prison Knife in-game.]]

== Karambit Knife ==

The Karambit Knife is a combat knife used in the Call of Duty: Black Ops mission Executive Order. It is used to kill a Russian soldier by sticking it into the soldier's spinal cord, killing him, allowing the player and Frank Woods to take their uniform and infiltrate the launch site. Though this blade is used only by US Federal Air Marshals currently, Mason and Woods could have used it instead of a normal blade to aid in the purpose of the mission. Unlike a normal blade, it is shaped like a jungle cat's claw.

[[Image:561px-Karambit_Knife.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Karambit Knife in-game.]]

== Bowie Knife ==

The Bowie Knife is a special melee weapon which can be bought for 3000 points in Der Riese, Kino der Toten and Five. It is larger and wider than the standard combat knife in Call of Duty: Black Ops (or any Call of Duty game for that matter). It increases Knife damage from 150 to 1150, making it a one-hit-kill for zombies from Round 1 to Round 11. It is a one-hit-kill to Hellhounds all the way up until the third hellround.

[[Image:BowieKnifePolkCompetition2-1024.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The Bowie Knife in Real Life.]]

[[Image:Bowie.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Bowie Knife in-game.]]

=Discussion=
This game has a cold war look to it

==AK74u==

In game, it is a ak74u, not an aks74u. U=carbine S=folding stock.
The in game models are all mssing stocks, so are only an ak74u, as they are called in game. It should be noted as such, im sick of having to re change the main page and want to get this cleared up/

I don't care if there's no stock, there's no such designation as "AK-74u". Also, try unlocking the "grip" attachment for it. That adds the stock back on. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

AK74 is base model, u means shortened, s means folding stock, etc. So chopping stock off makes it a 74u

I am fully aware of what the designations mean. Find me an actual AK-74 carbine produced from the factory without the side-folder and actually labelled "AK-74u" (cannot be simply an AKS-74U with the stock detached), and I'll gladly change it back. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:16, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

It doesnt matter how it left the factory, it matters how you modify it. If you put a 4.25 inch barrel and slide on a full sized 1911 do you call it a government model or a commander? I mean its a commander model but left the factory a government.....

This isn't the Call of Duty Wiki, kid. We don't promote misinformation as fact like they do there. We refer to and classify firearms as they are in the ''real'' world, not the ''game'' world. That means referring to it by its ''actual'' name (AKS-74U, not AK-74U) and classification (carbine, not SMG). It doesn't matter what it's called in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Im trying to put the corerect designation, maybe even note there is a ak74 u and a aks74u, remember that we cant say a gun has a folding stock if it has NO stock. a 7.5 inch barreled ar with a stock is a carbine, taking the stock of its an ar pistol, not a ar stockless rifle.

But "AK-74U" is ''not'' the correct designation. Look at the [[I Am Legend]] page and you'll note that even though Will Smith's AR is modified to appear as an M4A1 in the movie, we still classify it based on what it ''came out of the factory as'', a Colt Law Enforcement Carbine. Also not that the most recent AK iterations as well as the AN-94 all have side-folding stocks, yet no "S" in their designations. Your AR "pistol" comparison also has no validity in that those so-called "pistols" all fire the same full-sized .223 cal./5.56mm ammunition and as such are pistols ''in name only''. So like HashiriyaR32 said, unless you can provide proof of an actual real life AK-74 carbine ''factory-produced'' without a folding stock and bearing the in-game designation, it stays AKS-74U. You're in the domain of the "gun nerds" and real life fact takes priority over in-game fiction. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==Accuracy of Game==
I have Black Ops and have beaten the campaign, while the missions range from 1961 to 1968 the game is LOADED with anachronisms, im not sure an alternate reality would explain for having FAMAS F1s ( ''In fact, FELIN´s'' --[[User:Werc|Werc]]) and AUG A1s in the 1960s. Also they have the M16 in Vietnam with a so-called Masterkey system on it, im not sure that they had Masterkeys in Vietnam but it looks to be an Ithaca 37 stakeout attatched to the M16, also nearly ALL of the NVA soldiers are armed with SPAS-12 which is completely wierd. Any comments from people who have played the game?
: Yeah, you are right. If this game would be atleast fun. But its boring, MP is even worse than in MW2 ( ''And MW2 had worst MP of all'' ''times'' ), SP is boring like hell. There is nothin such as AI. Storyline is boring an unoriginal. Weapons are both anachronistic and unrealistic. Nothing like kicback even on Mosin Nagant ? '''THIS GAME SUCKS, just like MW2 did''' --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Do you get a nickel from EA every time you rag on the game? And there are many things I can say about the story, but "unoriginal" is not one of them. I have yet to play another FPS where the player is mentally ill and one of the main characters is merely a hallucination. (Unless there's an "A Beautiful Mind" FPS I don't know about.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

well i enjoyed it , and if i tape a shotgun under the barrel of my M16 why cant i call it a masterkey . simmons 8492

I know that most of the weapons in the game are anachronistic and that's a little bit sad for a cold war game, but a lot of those firearms are never seen in video games, that's one thing that made me like it. Perhaps,I enjoyed the stroryline from the begining to the end, I love the Zombie mode and the multiplayer is great (at least when I play with my friends). --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 19:19, November 11 2010 (UTC)

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

It's an Intermediate rifle, like the P90 or MP7A1, slightly smaller caliber but with an effective range between a rifle's range and a sub gun's range.
:No, that is an incorrect comparison. The AK-74U is just a compact rifle since it fires an assault rifle round, not an assault rifle "styled" rifle. The P90 and the MP7 are designed from the ground up to be PDWs that fired ammo that are necked down rifle rounds instead of pistol rounds designed with the same armor piercing power as the full size rifle. It's like the Colt Model 733 or the 933 or any of the other shorten assault rifle variants. A submachine gun is always compared to weapons that fire pistol caliber ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

But weapons like the SAM-R use the same caliber as 933 and 733, 5.56x45, and the SAM-R is used as a DMR. i doubt the 5.45x39 could be a marksman rifle cartridge. even though its longer than the 5.7 or 4.6, its range and accuracy are not that of a true assault rifle.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==
Hey guys, Zombie mode on Black Ops includes 2 maps, each bringing there own unique cast of characters
-Kind Der Untoten-
-All classic Nazi Zombies Characters

-Five-
-Fidel Castro (Holding Colt Python)
-John F. Kennedy (Holding China Lake Launcher)
-Richard Nixon
-Robert McNamara
These maps i have not played that much but from what i have there are these weapons
-Kind Der Untoten-
-Olympia (Over & Under)
-Walther MPL
-PM-63
-MP-40
-Mystery Box (Any number of assorted weapons)

-Five-
-Olympia
-Walther MPL

-will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

its been confermed . for news hit up black ops 24/7 . they dont have 100 percent accurate weapons lists but its the best site out there

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, the SKS, Norinco Type 54, M1 Carbine, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''
Lee Enfield SMLE/ Jungle Carbine, M1 carbine, M2 carbine, SKS, Webley, Skorpion, M1 grand, RPG-2[[User:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

if anything there going to have those guns , and ruinthem buy adding rails and underbarell shit.simmons8492

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.
Some people are still saying it could be WASR-2. It's not a WASR-2. WASR-2's are new production (within the past few years) rifles from Romania made ONLY for semi-automatic use and for importation into the US. There's no way on God's green earth that the rifle in game is a WASR-2.

More than likely this is just an AK-47 with an incorrectly modeled mag. They ARE modeling these things after airsoft guns ya know.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

im not sure but with those ironsites id say a g36 . i hope they brink the one from COD4 back i loved it. simmons 8492

In black ops there appears also a weapon that an elicoptero is in use for throwing .. it appears in the game in the level 2 as harpoon
[[Image:Harpoon.jgp]]

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

well am i the only one who thinks WAW did a horible job of represting the stoping power of the .45 . i mean the gun does nothing in the game , but in real life its a man stoper. simmons 8492

Game balance. That's why [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

i under stand but the walther is better in that game than the 1911. at least the .45 in COD4 had some good stopingpower to it . i know its a diffrent model but still . simmons 8492

and lucky for me , the boys at trayarc made the M1911A1 the manstoper that it is .SEMPER FI!!! simmons 8492

one thing i noticed is that some times the player racks the slide and it stays back like its empty . i dont get it. simmons 8492

Its a useless flair that can be done with a real gun by pushing up on the Slide release as you pull it back and then release it after its locked. I did it on my Hi Power after seeing it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:30, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

well the ak-74 would be good , but no one would notice the difference. most kids playing this game dont know am1911a1 from a m14 . id like to see both

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

a littel of topic but, that guy has one of the shitties grips that i have ever seen

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

i dont think he has the globe and anchor tat , but because of him im going to grow a mullet and wear a head band shhhing people. simmons8492

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

youd be suprised what i can do with one hand. simmond 8492

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Grenade launchers are balanced, mininum detonation range, slow reload, not very accurate (need to arc) only 2 rounds, and besides, use it to take down campers.

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

Yes. Confermed on callofduty.com

as lon as he goes all predator on some one like in wold at war , im fine with in, and being as that hes a soviet why is he with the us? defector or what? simmons 8492

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Not to mention it's impossible to actually fire one with live rounds. -Mandaloin

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

just for that tom jane is going to kill you with a bow and arrow. good job . and the balistic knive uses high tention (missspeled) springs, so id call it a projectial if anything. not to mension that , if you look at the rock on this site , it has the little dart shot gun that nick cage uses in the begining. simmons 8492

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

first , i had a kid tell me that the moddel 1887 is a rifel , based only on the fact that it has a lever and not a pump. i own no guns and also only pop on this site to win bets with my brother but i know that. but dose any one know if the m16 or famas have selector switches that can be changed?

Yes they do. The FAMAS can shoot on semi auto, and the M16a4 also has semi auto.[[user:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Just pitching in here but isnt the Galil what the israelis made as an improved AK-47 ? I think i heard that on the millitary channel or something (btw the price for the WA2000 these days is minimum 40 000 $ THE 2ND VERSION IS MIN 75 000 $ there was only 176 built (thank you wikipedia)--[[User:Patrickgt|℗Λ✝r][©Κ]] 04:29, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:While looking at the Create-a-class 2.0 vid shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzSImy-xm4, I found it rather odd for the choice that Treyarch was going with on the weapon selection for the pistols at the 0:23 mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to place the Makarov PM as the starting pistol because of it's weak 9x18mm cartridge? I'd personally would have liked to see it like this:

*Makarov PM
*ASP
*1911
*Colt Python
*CZ75

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

. reality and videogames are like an amish hacker , never gonna happen . this is going to be FUCKIN EPIC . simmons 8492

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

it looks like famas had a field day and fucked everything up . the pig dosent deserve that . and for all the idiots out there reading this and thinking"whats the pig, can you use farm animals as weapona" the pig is the name for the m60 , that gun hold a special place in my heart . simmons 8492

It really looks like they just took a lot of stuff from mw2 (like those god damned iron sights) and whats the deal putting Troy industries sight on an AUG? How stupid does that even look, couldnt hit shit in real life cuz there is no spacing between the front and rear post! Come on Treyarch i tough u could do better --[[User:Patrickgt|℗Λ✝r][©Κ]] 02:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/FAMAS_Felin_501556_fh000002.jpg [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

in the same video they show parts froma game called "gun game " the player swaps the M14 for the m136 . im gonna go all jessie ventura up in that bitch . simmons 8492

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::The guns don't make sense at all, not just because of the era. I mean flamethrower attachments, handheld miniguns, the same rear sight on many guns, 20-round mags holding 30 rounds, semi-auto shotguns impossibly cycling with dragonsbreath ammo. Before MW2 the Call of Duty series was known for its accuracy and attention to how the guns really work, as well as the weapons for the time periods the games take place in. And GunGunGun has a point, it's just going to be the same chaotic multiplayer as MW2, a bunch of stoners and kids making themselves feel better by corner camping, tubing, and quickscoping. Treyarch only seems to have done things to promote those playing techniques, not discourage them like they should. -Mandaloin
::: Cry some more then? It's pretty obvious that you don't like the gameplay style. There are many, MANY gamers out there that would disagree with your tastes, and those are the ones that Treyarch is aiming to please (along with those on the fence over some of MW2s perks/killstreaks which were changed for the better). So what if it's not all realistic, the key point in a video game is if it's any fun to play or not. Last I checked, I couldn't actually survive crashing a Ferrari at 100MPh at Laguna Seca either, but it is sure as hell fun to play a game that allows me to get back up and try again without it being "game over" for me. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Meh, quit complaining, it's a video game. If you want realism go play ARMA or Operation Flashpoint. It does look better than MW2, that I will say. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I just love how people can criticize a game, when yet, they haven't even played it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 21:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I just love how people keep saying that. We don't have to play it to criticize what we've already seen of it. -Mandaloin
:: Yeah, you kinda do. If you have not actually sat down and played this game, you're only assuming it's gonna be bad by just looking at it. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Medal of Honor pwns Call of Duty in every way. ''That's'' my opinion of Black Ops. Anyone who doesn't like it can go cry a river. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well whatdaya know, the one I missed. Good find. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

They are Skorpians in 9x18mm without the stocks. Looks awesome to me.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

: We've already seen what the Skorpions look like, these look alot like that OTs-02 Kiparis --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 00:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:I presume the KS-23 is likely to have heavy recoil, small capacity (3 rounds) and a delay between shots. Also can't the KS-23 also function as a Grenade launcher as well firing firing a variety of shells such as Tear Gass, Flash Bang and White Phosphorous? I would marry Treyarch if they finally added Slugs to this baby! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Draco i think your my new friend. JK. i always wondered why they never put chokes or slugs as attachments for guns in video games.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

::They have added slugs to some games. But to name few, Bad Company 2, Fallout: New Vegas and STALKER are one's that come to mind, though I don't think even the majority of game designers (save for a small collection of the minority) that know what a Choke on a shotgun even is. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a AR-18 but don't we have the full assault rifle list?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: It's not an AR-18, the recievers don't match. It looks more like the 63, although it doesn't appear to have the ventilated barrel housing. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

After actually looking at a 63, this gun looks like it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Stoner63-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stoner 63 in rifle and LMG configuration.]]
[[Image:COD7Stonerpossible.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a screencap from gameplay footage of the possible Stoner 63. Compared to the stock image I'd say it is.]] . - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reflex sights==
Just wondering about the reflex sights, were they even developed back during the periods the game is set in? Another thing I was curious about is that the M4 Spectre in the list shows it having a reflex mounted on it. While it is using a side-mount, wouldn't the stock get in the way if you try to fold/unfold it since it folds to the top of the gun?--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
: '''1,''' Yeah, i am almost sure reflex sight existed during cold war. There is even patent on internet, dating it into seventies.
: '''2,''' All SMG´s have apparently stocks removed for some reason. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Not exactly on topic==
Alright, I am having a pretty bad day with dealing all the crap my professors are throwing at me and then my roommate says something that is kinda pissing me off so I am gonna rant a little bit. Last night(this early morning actually, around 1), he decided not to do his homework and decided to watch a show about snipers and the amazing feats they pulled off including one about Hatchcock. It was pretty interesting until he ruined it after watching a sniper take out VietCongs using kentucky windage with his scoped (now busted) m14 after his helo was shot down by saying, "So what, I don't see how that is impressive, I can do that all the time in Modern Warfare 2." Now he wants to go buy Black Ops when it comes out because he wants to "pwn some noobs" and all the feature look really realistic just like in MW2. He goes on to say that he wants to become a Ranger because he thinks it is easy enough since he is smart since he was on a debate team, ran for state assembly, etc. and strong because he can do MMA and finishes that with he can drink a lot beer. I give him credit for having the balls to join the Rangers but at the same time, it feels like he is insulting them. Sorry for writing all this but I was having a shitty day and just had to let is all out and I figured it since he was talking of COD, that I would put it here. Alright, rant over, feeling much better now. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, is actual real military service gonna shit on his cereal, lets see just how easy pwning noobs is when your actually getting shot at, oh and apparently theres this thing called recoil in reality, suprising i know. Oh and no respawns either. On an actual related note this game is gonna suck, I do love the return of the 1911 to COD i just can forgive the erronious amounts of just horrendous anacronisms, and the flamethrower undermount is so retarded --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a fun idea, hand a CoD fanboy an AR-15 with the bolt locked back, hand them a magazine, and tell them to fire it. See how long it takes them to realize that the weapon isn't magically ready to fire just because you slap in a fresh magazine. You get five points for every ten seconds it takes before they realize what the bolt catch is. You get bonus points if they pull the charging handle.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 06:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Oh and pop that elusive saftey on too, just for good measure.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 09:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they would give the back stock a flat slap after loading a fresh mag and charged the gun like a real badass.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better would be actually getting through the first phase of basic to even hold a weapon.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be even more surprised to find a gamer doing a proper tactical reload, instead of letting a mag drop to the ground and becoming confused as to why it doesn't magically appear back in his pouches.

first of id slap the shit out of your roommate , the second he hit basic hes gonna be crying for mommy shitting him self , and i cant wait for the m1911 to make its return .simmons 8492

==Kinda liking the weapons list==

Well, they are things you never see in other games, although the awp and famas and spas12 can go, and id love the a1 to be full auto. But, a revovler that makes sense, old school submachine guns, a pump action grenade launcher its kind of cool.

I do wish they didn't decided the nearly the same weapons from the other MW series like the AUG, SPAS-12, or the MP5K. They could have picked other pump action shotguns like the Remington 870, or another weapon aside from the MP5K. They should have stuck with the full size MP5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do have the Ithaca 37. And at least the AUG is a rifle and not a LMG in this one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I do know most of these guns really shouldn't exist but you can believe I will have a ton of fun with the under-barrel flamethrower with a smily face reflex sight on the G11(they better not mess up the G11).--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

At this moment, I am not bothered about weapons that don't exist at the time, but more on original choices. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda of agree with you there, sorta disappointed though that they made the M16A1 burst fire in Multiplayer. Though it's hard to say exactly when all these guns appear, while yes we were told it was starting in Vietnam but IT could possibly star in other timezones too. From what I've gathered, you play as multiple characters so it's possible you could play as multiple characters in different time periods, 1 in Vietnam, another in Cold War and maybe a few fictional war zones in the early 2000's [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, it seems that original M16 without forward assist is in game. Anyway - As far as i know M16A1 fired in 3-round bursts, no ?
:::The A1 is full-auto. The A2 and A4 variants fire bursts. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 10:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont like how they use the correct 20 round mag model but make it hold 30. Hopefully the burst/30 rounds is online only, like in cod 4 where the m16 was full auto SP but burst MP.

== CZ75 ==

JUst curious, does anyone think that the CZ-75 might be the Automatic version of the weapon. Granted Treyarch wasn't going to add Machine Pistols but since it's the last handgun in the list and it costs 750 credits would it be possible? I mean Bad Company 2 had their 93R as their last unlock which was a machine pistol [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well, it doesnt have to be automatic. CZ-75 is superior to all other handguns from list in real life.( maybe besides Colt Python ) - Its better than Makarov, ASP and even M1911 in all "stats" . Its probably best 9mm handgun.

::Not too sure as to how it would be better than a .45 caliber 1911. I can see it being better than the ASP or Makarov due to their small magazines of 7-8 rounds compared to the 75's 16 (9mm). Of course it does open the slight possibility that an Automatic conversion kit is available as an attachment [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Its not just about calibre or mag capacity. CZ-75 is more accurate, bullet is faster and i think its lighter. Anyway - Its sure that heavier cartrigde is allways better :) But i would take CZ75 to combat instead of M1911.

:Maybe the developers just read a lot of Gunsmith Cats, and took Rally's speech to heart, but the possibility that it may be an automatic makes me sigh. I hope it isn't.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, The CZ-75 is not more accurate than a 1911
Secondly, there is no "best" 9x19 millimeter pistol, its all personal preference,
Thirdly, the .45 is a better combat round due to its lager grain bullet and more dispersion of energy on contact,
and Lastly, while caliber is not the most important factor, the .45 A.C.P is superior to the 9x19mm because the 9 is a small lightweight bullet, while the .45 is a large heavyweight bullet.
P.S. sign your posts.
~~ PunisherDave
: Well, i tested both CZ75 and 1911. I was doing better with CZ. Anyway - I would take it into combat because of for example mag size. And 9mm bullets are way much more common... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Military 1911s almost universally sucked, with ultra loose fitting parts and 7 pound triggers, and nearly useless sights. 1911s in the civilian world, or the uber built special forces 1911, are nice. But your average GI 1911....not so. Im sure a cz75 would kick its ass in accuracy and reliability if you wanted to use more than ball ammo.
~~k9870
: Ágreed. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Those old 1911's had one thing going for them though, there was a hell of a lot of abuse you could put them through before they malfunctioned. Reliability is a factor. I'm not saying the CZ isn't reliable though, don't get me wrong. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 17:24, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It was once said "the colt 45 will drop a charging bull dead in its tracks, but good luck hitting it.

Haha, while I do know (note how I'm just basing what I say off of research, so I am open to corrections. Hopefully one day I can fire a 1911 and CZ to really know the differences)that the old GI 1911's were often maligned for their lack of accuracy, I've also heard people say it isn't that big of a deal considering that it is a handgun. In a military capacity, the pistol is there when shit gets up close and personal and you need to defend yourself. When the guy is close enough that you can see the whites of his eyes, I'm sure you're not gonna have to be a deadeye to land shots on target. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 18:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:My buddy's father was a Marine in Vietnam, and at least according to him, a lot had to do with the fact that their M1911s were just really old and worn. I would think that WWII production of M1911s would've been more enough to supply US forces for decades. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:29, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Ive heard they manuactured no new 1911s after ww2, and that they just swapped parts, keeping frame and slide. They were loose fitting, and rattled in holsters. a 7 pound single action trigger, and the sights are just awful, especially against a dark background, cheap 3 dot sights would be better. problem is when people think "1911" they think of the sweet modern ones. To be fair, military berettas are beat to hell too, and have known countless people to say the sights were misaligned, magazines had weak springs, etc.
The cz-75 though, this is the first time ive seen it in a game, its pretty cool. I cant wait to use it, im sick of the beretta being the staple 9mm.
-k9870

Misaliged sights are from them getting knocked around and is easily fixed, worn mag springs is through use and they are easily replaced.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It is true that no new 1911's were purchased after World War 2. The same .45's that were on G.I's hips in Europe and The Pacific were being carried by U.S troops during the Gulf War in the 1990's. I've heard that the quality of the 1911's varied from gun to gun. Some were actually were in decent shape while others were just horrid. I don't believe they all suffered from the problems that K9870 is saying. Although I admit the standard sights on those guns are just awful, Most of the time I can't even make out the front post. A lot of soldiers I've read actually preferred a 1911 to the M9 and carried it when possible. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 22:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I dunno about the automatic thing... I myself have only heard of the machine pistol variant of the CZ-75 until very recently, plus I don't think it has a place in media history as a well-known variant of the CZ-75 (much less the CZ-75 itself, outside of [[Gunsmith Cats]]), so I don't know how Treyarch could know about it. Most of the guns they got ideas for the game from are the airsoft guns they had in their office, and last I checked no one makes an airsoft automatic CZ-75. So I would bet my money on that this is just the game's Desert Eagle - the pistol that outshines the rest (and it's about time! The CZ-75 is very underused in the media, IMO). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 09:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually I'm thinking that the Python is gonna be the Power Pistol of this game followed by the 1911. The CZ is probably gonna be the 9mm hi cap of the game.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I hope they dont neuter it for "balance" and that it is awesome, who cares if they need to balance with the makarov and asp? When you buy better guns, they should actually be better, not just change one stat for another.

==asp==

was the asp pistol any good or even used much? It seems the grips would be slippery and the sights are weird.
-k9879
:According to a random site I found, it wasn't used much. Originally, only 100 were produced, and if they are still produced, they are produced only on a pistol-by-pistol basis by custom gunsmiths or shops or something along those lines. The grips were smooth because the original designer intended it to be the ultimate concealed carry pistol, and the smooth grips helped this keeping the chance for the hand to snag on the grips while pulling, aiming, and firing to a minimum. In addition, the sights are weird but when aimed through, due to the design of the sight which employed fluorescent panels, would point at the target when properly aligned, making it easier to shoot reflexively. -Chris Hun7er 23:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

It is a S&W Model 39 which was a really good pistol. It looks as though its in the game because of the size of the Makarov. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:34, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Over-Under Shotgun ==

The Over-Under Shotgun AKA "Olympia", seems to be based off of a Browning Citori XT shotgun. I don't have a screenshot of the gun ingame (It was on the ground, and in HD, but the page was protected so I couldn't save it). But I am pretty sure that the Browning Citori XT is the real-life inspiration for the Olympia.

==Snubnose more accurate?==

What game designers brilliant idea was this? i could understand faster switch or something, but higher accuracy?

I think they were too stupid to make the snubnose version default and a 6" barrel an attachment. --[[User:Xarex|Xarex]]

A 4 inch python is a great service handgun, they should just have 4inch standard, the 6 inch a slower draw but more accurate, the snubby less accurate but faster draw, and unlocks like a nickle finish, different grips, pimp it out however you please.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would think that a snub makes it more accurate, this is just stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

On the COD wiki it shows the stat page ffor snubnose, down one bar power, up one accuracy.
k9870
:It could be that one of the developers mixed it up by mistake, if its not a mix up..... then why bother making videogames with real guns anymore if Treyarch is just going to make up stuff. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 08:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

::A snub nosed revolver has less power AND accuracy than a full size revolver.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

:::I mean in a video game sense (balance over realism), wouldn't a shorter barrel logically mean less accuracy? Sorry if what i said earlier sounded like i wanted Treyarch to make the game like real life. I just meant that Treyarch would be messing with logic to make a shorter barrel mean higher accuracy. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 12:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Black Ops Zombies weapons ==

For those that are wondering, this is the "teaser" trailer for Black Op's Zombie mode www.gknova6.com

So far the weapons I can see and identify are the HK21E, Ithaca M37 Trench Gun, a sniper rifle that looks similar to the design of an Artic Warfare Super Magnum and a tricked out AK variant.

Also it seems we may have Zombies in modern arenas like Office complexes and Labs [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Makarov with target sights. ==

I just noticed that the Makarov has target sights instead of the Military sights. That definatly seems wrong for Military use.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Military sights suck, im sure special forces would replace them.

Maybe but as I recall they didn't have target sights back then, plus they are Dropped by the Russians so they would have the military sights. They aren't that bad by the way, I have personal experiance with them and they are fine.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Saw on COD wiki "upgraded iron sights" as an attachment.

==Strela-3 Missile launcher! Latest Trailer!==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA 1:10 "Vehicle Lock-On Only". Also whats that gun at 2:03, it makes me confus
--[[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]] 17:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

==Who Wants to Ice Castro?==
Apparently you can do it, and there's even an achievement for doing it in one shot!
http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/call-of-duty-black-ops/news/call-of-duty-black-ops-achievementstrophies-reward-you-for-murdering-monkeys-and-fidel-castro/a-20101001104021980032/g-20100430155437473001
[[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 18:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

tell ya what , if you can do that cuba is gonna be pissed . simmons 8492
Oh, oh, I DO!!! :D [[User:Young Gun]]

== Clues from leaked Achievements list ==

Full list here. SPOILERS! [http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2]

:-The player gets to use TOW missiles in the game.
:: MP killstreak list is more than few days old.
:-It's DEFINITELY alternative history.
:: That was clear.
:-The Grim Reaper is in the campaign somewhere.
:: Seen already in one of first trailers.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== Found a PSG1 ==

[http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101001181628/callofduty/images/f/f9/Psg1better.jpg Here], to the right of the G2 --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 19:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

: '''Oh. My. God'''. 2000 Famas with flamethrower and M16 handguard. I beg it would sound crazy month ago. Looking forward MoH much more. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
:Sharp eye, dude. You have my respect. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:13, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63 RAK ==

@ 2:04 in the new trailer here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA] Looks like a PM-63 RAK
[[Image:BO Unidentified.JPG]]--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

:He he, monkey.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 02:31, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Galil ==

Hey guys, found an ingame image of the Galil, head over to the Black Ops page to see it --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Explanation for Impossibly Inaccurate Weapons ==

It is possible that the explanation is that not all of this game is 1968. By looking at www.gknova6.com viral ad site for black ops, reading the trophy/achievemnt list, and by piecing together all the nova-6 gas based missions I believe that one of the playable characters will be killed or severely wounded in the Bay of Pigs Invasion in Cuba(due to the Sacrifice tropy found on the list at http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2). The Gk Company or the Russian goverment then has him revived or recovered to relate what happened with his Ops in the year 1993(www.gknova6.com) or 2010(reveal) at Rebirth Island(Vozrozhdeniya Island) home to the Russian Microbioligical Warfare Unit(source wikipedia). This is not fannon look at the all the raw info of GKNOVA, the mission objectives of sevarel missions, and this GKNOVA6 Web site. Sorry for the long windedness but hopefully you will all understand.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 17:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

So...how does any of this new information explain the inaccurate weapons? The missions with the weapons in question like the AR-15 and the AUG really did took place in a time when they shouldn't exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:20, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Its confirmed this game is alternate reality/timeline so inaccurate weapons is less of a deal.
[[User:K9870|K9870]]

I was more or less talking about way off ones like the WA2000, FAMAS Felin, Artic Warfare, and Spectre M4.Trust me Im not saying thats a good excuse for F-ing up with the CAR-15 hybrid thing and the production "protoype" AUG but that might be the excuse for the G11 and all other post 1970 weapons.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 04:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course there's always the point that this is just a video game that has events based off of real life occurrences too... [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Model 1887 is back ==
In before complaining. Seen in the newest trailer around the 00:42 second mark.
http://kotaku.com/5661296/a-look-at-black-ops-single-player-gameplay-and-story

Definitely a shout out to Terminator 2 there. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 02:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It has been confirmed for single player campaign only, by trearch. Dunno about zombies --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh-ho, my friend, they are here. The best part is that the zombies are still of the Nazi variety. http://www.gknova6.com/agegate.php

:I mean dont know if its on zombies--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Only in one sequence within the campaign, don't think it's in zombies --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

What did enough people bitch about "how unfair" it is by blaming their lack of skill on "noob guns"?
:Honestly, I can understand why people complained about Akimbo 1887s. They definitely weren't balanced, since you could fire them almost constantly by staggering your shots until you had to reload. They also had almost insane range (For a video game shotgun), and very high power. I was fine with the single 1887, but I was glad that they nerfed the Akimbos. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 17:02, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

And I hope the zombies arent nazis, i want to fight commie zombies......

:Looks more like there may be a possibility of fighting not only Commie Zombies but Vietcong Zombies and regular civi zombies too, some of those screens look like their wearing office uniforms and lab coats besides military armor. In some ways I'm glad the 1887 is in singleplayer but at the same time I was kinda hoping it would also be added in multiplayer minus the silly akimbo models, they just looked wrong in my opinion. Also sign your posts with "~ ~ ~ ~" without quotations and spaces. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Deer Hunter ==
Looks like theres a scene in the new trailer similiar to the roulette scene in The Deer Hunter, I wonder how that will work in the game. (just a cut scene or a playable moment?) --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 03:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

'MOW" haha that shit gets me every time . simmons 8492
:Nips? Wow, you're doubly ignorant. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

*Actually, there is no proof the Vietcong actually did anything like that, and it is widely agreed among film critics that the Russian Roulette scenes are actually allegories for the American involvement in Vietnam. We also have a few Asian members on this site, so you should keep your racism to yourself. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

:Well I'm not Vietnamese, so that won't offend me. Besides, sticks and stones. I'm more American than I am Asian [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Dont want to look bad to future members, i know some is just joking but some people take everything seriously.

know what , your right . my bad guys . ill take it down. simmons8492

== Walther MPL confirmed ==

Found a video on G4 containing confirmation that the MPL SMG is in-game. For reference it's the gun painted all green http://g4tv.com/videos/49177/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops---Jungle-Multiplayer-Map-Exclusive/ [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 16:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== 'Grip attachment' on Sub Machine Guns ==

I've heard that the grip attachment on SMGs in fact deploys the stock. That would explain why they all seem to be removed/folded ont the SMGs.

:This is most proven on the Skorpion, attaching a grip actually attaches the wire folding stock [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:24, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

==Is it just me...==

or is using the same flip up sights on every damn gun just friggin lazy?

[[User:k9870|k9870]]

It's an attachment called 'improved iron sights'. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:32, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

No, there standard in game sights. The improved adds outiline and dots to pistols, the flip up sights on guns is laz and trying to look tacticool. Even the m60 has them

And because the standard factory iron-sights for the M60 and the FAMAS, well, SUCK. I really was not a fan of the M60's irons in COD4 and the Battlefield Bad Company games. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:19, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
: Agreed. Kinda bugged by the repetitive sights on some guns myself, but I'm not gonna let it get me down. Most of the guns have their own, correct sights. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, thats Treyarch development style. Put everything they want in any time etape. This game is already dead to me - actually, MoH with its 5 hour campaign is much better than MW2 and Black Ops ('' MW2 with different textures and anachronistic guns'' )
:: Wow dude, you must be from the future seeing as how you are able to form this opinion with a game that hasn't even been released yet. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Meh, I usually play games because they are fun. MOH was pretty realisitc, (compared to Call of Duty anyway...) but it definetly wasn't fun (online). I'll just revel in the ridiculousness of it all... Akimbo HS-10 FTW
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I just finally see these old obscure guns in games and they put lameass sights on, BTW medal of honors single player was cool (ending was abrupt and anticlimactic though) but online is glitchy and feels unpolished. I want to play COD.

Not really sure about the LAME part, but I'd rather have USABLE sights even if they aren't the originals and seem LAME in other people's eyes. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:46, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Is it so hard to ask for variety, im sure the stock sights are usable for a game, i may just use an AK online since it doesnt have flip ups.

Is it so much to ask them to give us variety in the same type of gun, like stock and stockless MP5 or underfolder AK. performances, it makes no difference, but I like variety in what you pick to shoot with. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

== *SPOILER* Zombie Mode Characters. ==

Hey, just saw the intro video for zombie mode. It seems you play as John F Kennedy, Richard Nixon, Some CIA Bloke and Fidel Castro... Heres the link:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbhcHCP24g]r
::That fourth guy would appear to be Robert McNamara, JFK and LBJ's Sec of Defense. Why not just LBJ? Or Bobby Kennedy? They couldn't find two voice actors to do bad Bahston/Kennedy accents? ("Er-eh, toss me another maaahg!") --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Awsome.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 23:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

: These guys are only on bonus map that you get after finishing campaign. There are some random US sosldiers fighting Nazi Zombies in normal zombie mode. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Damn, i love cigars but hate commies. [[user:k9870|k987]]

Zombies better be commies, killing nazis got old i want to shoot commie zobies.

:Is it just me, or would LBJ be better replaced by LHO? (Lee Harvey Oswald.)
::Only if he could only carry three bullets at one time. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:47, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

=="escape the past"==

Its a achievemnet listed, does this imply time travel?
-k9870

Or that something one of the characters did is going to come back to bite them in the arse. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

If it's time travel I'm tearing someone at Treyarch a new one--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:Don't get so defensive over a title. It could be a really cool section, forcing the player to battle his way out of his hometown. Or, maybe time travel. >.> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 23:31, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Nah I meant it all in good humour XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I highly doubt that it's actual time travel. From what we've seen and has been speculated, the majority of the campaign will take place as memories of Black Ops missions that the main characters participated in. No time travel, just photographic memories. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

==New Videos confirm various unknowns==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrNoLz4gC60&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=dvWBYFCAcck]

Among a few things, this video confirms that the G11 is burst fire only, and at the exceptional rate we expect. The poster has posted about many other of the weapons, also confirming that Full Auto is a pistol attachment for the CV-75. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:19, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Golden Guns are Fugly ==

I mean take a look at this!

[[Image:Golden_PSG1.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden PSG1]]

[[Image:Golden_WA2000.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden WA2000]]

[[Image:Golden_Stakeout.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden Ithaca Stakeout]]

[[Image:Golden_HS-10.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden HS-10]]

Also, it would appear the the Ithaca M37 IS the Stakeout version and not the Trench Gun version we initially believed [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:39, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:I thought golden guns were fugly before. >> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:That doesn't even look like real gold, it looks spray painted on! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The gold guns look terribad, probably will avoid using gold camo altogether :C --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 00:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Why spend money on gun colours, when you can just buy gun attachements? :D [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:^ This. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Eh, still gonna make my Duke of New York class with a gold Mac-10 and a nickel (I swear I saw a nickel or 'silver' camo) Python. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Not sure it was confirmed, I think there was rumors flying around but nothing concrete. Besides, I don't think camo patterns can be applied to secondaries, which is lame. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Have you heard that even ACOG´s can be added on pistols ? This game is gonna suck.
:::Because the fact that you can put a scope on a high powered revolver (Something that's doable and often useful in real life) means that the game automatically sucks. Thank you for your insight. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Only python can take an acog. And as to golden guns you only use them if you want to and it looks like you can do it for individual guns instead of the whole damn class its in.

The Python's recoil with the ACOG looks pretty balanced, I'm not too bothered about it. Besides, is pretty cool that Treyarch are doing something a bit different. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:I just added pictures of all the golden guns, they are pretty gross. I would never waste any fake money to buy them.

==just watched zomie gameplay==

pentagon level, the zombies were amix of original nazi zombies and pentagon workers turned to zombies (were wearing shirt/tie)

Why cant they have communist zombies, seriously?

[[user:k9870|k9870]

:I guess they don't want to offend anyone who might be communist. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I still hope there's some Nazi ones left. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Nazis made sense in ww2, but thats been done, we want something new, commie zombies.

From what I've seen, the WaW characters are returning to fight straight Nazi zombies, JFK and friends fight Pentagon zombies in the Pentagon, and there's another with Russian zombies in Winter camo (that's shown on that GKNOVA6 website right now). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The JFK/Nixon/Castro/McNamara level is a bonus level at the end of the game, not the actual zombies mode. The real zombies mode features some new guys in some labs (as seen on GKNOVA6) most probably russian special forces. It will include communist zombies. and the characters from W@w are in it if you buy hardened --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 11:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I hope the pentagon level is 4 player co op so i can play with friends

==Interview with the military advisor==
Here is the link to the interview with the Call of Duty: Black Ops military advisor if anyone is interested in reading it. [http://www.3news.co.nz/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-military-advisor-interview/tabid/418/articleID/185313/Default.aspx] --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 16:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, that Advisor doesnt know anything about weapons. Or any kind of warfare. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Of course your in a position to judge him right...--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, god forbid Treyarch try and make a fun game, instead of a military simulator. Fun? What's that?! [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 10:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: But game can be fun even with realistic weapons or good AI of enemies.
Unfortunately, Treyarch went in MW2 way and instead of making enemy AI better, they spawned twice as much of them.
:::No one says COD was ever a military simulator, but a M16/M203 turning up during the Bay of Pigs invasion would seem to be a "bit" out of place. Now that we know the singleplayer is set between 1961 and 1968, any arguments about the game taking place in some era that justifies the anachronisms has become irrelevant.

==Just putting this out there==
Does anyone else believe that now that the game's actually out and we can get higher quality screenshots, that the old low quality caps be removed? Or maybe the entire page be redone so it looks a little more consistent because you have a low quality shot from an online video then a high quality ingame cap from the game. I'm just saying it probably would look better. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 01:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the low-quality screencaps should be removed ASAP. I'll try to post some as I go through the single-player campaign, but eventually, they too may need to be replaced. I'm running it on 960x600 with no AA for playability. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:This page also need screencaps from the Zombies mode. I was unable to get the Thundergun (a two-shot sound wave gun that resembles a modern rocket launcher) and the Ray gun due to the constant waves of zombies that may sneak up on you and kill you easily, large number of barriers (too many to defend), and the poor weapons you receive in the early rounds. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I just finished single-player, and I've got tons of caps available. I'll try to upload that are relevant and in need later --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 04:18, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Impressions So Far? ==

What do you guys thinks of the game so far? My only dissapointment is that they have decided to remove the front sight when you use optics. Other than that, the guns look fantastic.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:I think it's alright, I haven't played campaign yet since the game is my roommate's so we've only been playing on Live. I think the only thing I'm not really liking so far is that they took away the slip-screen Special Ops. As for the guns, pretty much the same as yours along with the whole flame thrower thing, I just think it is rather ridiculous.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 06:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Boring. SP is short, unoriginal ('' This wont matter as MoH had short SP too. But it was atleast fun. Atmospheric and realistic fun. While its boring, unatmospheric and completely unoriginal in BO'' ) . There isnt anything like AI. Too many boring scripts. To the guns : They are anachronistic and unrealistic. It feels strange encountering NVA with Spas-12. MP is same like in MW2 ('' Read - Crappy'' ) with tons of spammed killstreasks etc.
:This game deserves '''5/10''', nothing more. Oh, and do not think i have something against Treyarch. I hated MW2 too. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I like it. SP was a bit of a mind fuck at times, and the AI could have been better, but 98% of the time I was having fun. MP is mostly good, better than MW2, though over the last 12 hours I started seeing some tubers. Yes it's anachronistic and ridiculous, but if I wanted an exact simulation of war I'd join the CF. Aside from some maps, I like it far more (In every way) than MW2. Galil w/ red dot & suppressor + 1911 w/ extended mags = awesomeness. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 15:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The story is actually pretty decent, better than the sponataneous betrayals of MW2. The voice acting is also, suprisingly, very well done. I really don't play multiplayer alot, but it's more balanced than MW2. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 15:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The constant flashes on the screen is annoying as hell. Almost gave me a seizure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The campaign was a bit hard to follow at first, but it comes together nicely in the end. Yes, the weapons are ludicrous (not even ridiculous, beyond ridiculous,) but oh well, I can live with it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Pretty much, I'll give this game a 9.2/10. The multiplayer and content is better and improved from Modern Warfare 2, but the campaign is a bit too short (only 15 missions :() and there's some minor complicated glitches in frame rate. Overall, the game is much better than Modern Warfare 2 and a good recommendation. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:24, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

To be honest guys I just ignore the ancronistic weaponry as it really doesnt matter in the long run. Lets face it, saying a game will suck because theres some AUGs in the 'nam era is just plain ludacris. If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops. Now that thats out of my system I can say with all honesty that this game is very addicting and its finnally a challenge to kill people(5-6 shots for a kill rather than 3-4 shots a kill in MW2). This game is a way more fun experince than MW2 and finally shows the potential of Teyarch development team. ---P226 21:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

: I agree, you people take the weapons accuracy way too seriously. What the hell did you expect from a mainstream video game? The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful. At least this games fun. Hate it for any other reason, that's fine I'll respect that. Hate it for innaccuracies when you really should be used to by know, and that's just ridiculous. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:: You and P226 have both just contradicted yourselves. On the one hand you state it's ridiculous to say a game sucks because of the guns, but then go on to say games that have accurate depictions of guns suck. If the game is fun, it's going to be fun whether the guns are accurate or not. I can't believe that if Black Ops had the correct weapons in it that it suddenly wouldn't be fun anymore. Perhaps you can give an explanation of how this would be so?
::''If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops.''
::I have to totally disagree with this statement. If Treyarch had used firearms of the period, we would have ended up with weapons that, to my knowledge, have never before been used in a video game. I have mentioned in other posts how the Remington 7188, an automatic shotgun that was really used by the NAVY seals in Vietnam could have been used in Black Ops. Instead we get the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time, and has been used in a million other video games. Which is the "bland, unoriginal" gun here? I'm gonna have to say the SPAS-12. Of course, if Treyarch had used the period correct shotgun the game would all of a sudden not be fun anymore and would suck, right?
::''The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful.'' I find this statement hard to believe. Would you care to back this up with some examples?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 04:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I never said having a game with correct guns of that period is going to be bad, I was trying to make a point that if Black Ops were to have just your standard m16's,Ak47's and colt Commando's, it would be just some normal Vietnam game. Also, all the guns above have been done to death in every video game none to man (though they are nice to have to fill in weapon slots), in my opinion I find the Galil as sweet( and different) Assualt Rifle, Ancronistic or not. If your the kind of guy who can't get over the fact that your using guns lke the AK'''74'''u and the CZ'''75''' in 1968, then this isn't the game for you. ---P226 18:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

:I don't know if you guys remember "Men of Valor," but it was a Vietnam FPS that came out a few years ago. It was developed by the same studio that did MoH: AA, so it felt a lot like MoH: Vietnam.) All the weapons were historically accurate, nothing was out of place, but if you've never heard of it, I'm not surprised. The game isn't bad, but it's not great, and it's flawed. The weapons were correct, but there weren't that many, and many of the weapons were just variations on the same weapon. (M16 and CAR-15, M14 and M21, and AK-47 and Type 56, and you couldn't share ammo for some reason.) Thus, you can make a game like BO that has ludicrously anachronistic weapons and have the biggest media launch of all time, or a game like Men of Valor that has historically accurate (and yes, boring) weapons and have it be unknown to the general gaming public. (You should try out Men of Valor though. If you have an original Xbox, you can get it new for a penny. It's not backwards compatible though.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

: I just might have to pick that up. And when I said the games with 100% accurate weapons suck, I didn't mean they sucked because of the guns, I meant that every game I could think of that was ultra-realistic just simply wasn't fun. No contradiction. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:54, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:You all seem to say the guns don't matter, but then show your disdain for having the correct weapons in the game, as if this would somehow make it boring. ''I never said having a game with correct guns of that period is going to be bad, I was trying to make a point that if Black Ops were to have just your standard m16's,Ak47's and colt Commando's, it would be just some normal Vietnam game.'' So if Black Ops had the exact same story, but the correct guns it would just be a normal Vietnam game? Why? The story makes the game, not the guns. And there's plenty of weapons that would be correct to the period that haven't been "done to death" (HK-33 w/ 40 rd mag, used by Navy SEALS, Carl Gustav m/45, Remington 7188, the list goes on) What exactly qualifies as bland,unoriginal guns, that if they were included would make the game boring? I just get the impression from you that the only interesting guns in this game are the ones that dont' belong there. My point is that they could have had period correct weapons and it wouldn't have affected the fun factor of the game at all--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 04:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::I am more bothered by the guns that didn't make the cut. Why not an M76, a Carl Gustav, a Madsen M50, or an M3 Grease Gun? Sure, they could've, but they didn't, probably on purpose. That brings leads me to what can be an interesting exercise: what would've been better weapons on each level? For the first level (the Cuban one) I would've put in an M2 Carbine and a PPK instead of the M16 and ASP. Other levels? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

:::You pose an interesting question, but there are actually a lot of different choices so it's one not easily answered. I agree with you on the M-2 carbine, it would be very appropriate for the Cuban level. I feel another good choice would have been one of the Czech SA series of submachine guns. If you've ever seen photos from the Bay of Pigs Invasion, you would have noticed that SA 25 quite a common weapon in the hands of Castro's forces. The FAL is actually historically correct for that level, but it's more likely that was an accident than by design.
:::I haven't played the game yet, so I'm not familiar with all the levels, but I have some general ideas of what they should have included. For pistols a Browning Hi-Power, and if Treyarch absolutely had to have a machine pistol, they could have used the Stechkin. For SMG's, the Carl Gustav M/45 standard model or suppressed version, and if not that then the Madsen M50. The SA 23,24,25,or 26, a Beretta model 12 w/ 40 round mag instead of the Spectre, maybe the MAT-49 for the NVA/Vietcong, if not the standard version then the suppressed model that was supposedly employed by NVA counter-SOG teams. If the MP-5 is going to be included then the standard MP5A3 should have been used instead of that ugly ass prototype MP5K.
:::Of course replace the damn SPAS-12 with the Remington 7188. HK33 instead of the AUG. The correct model CAR-15 instead of the flat top Commando. How about the AMD-65 instead of an AKS-74U? I think they should have axed the RPK altogether and perhaps used 2 different Russian machine guns, maybe an older model like the RP-46, and then the PK for the Spetsnaz.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:53, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

::: RPK instead of "''RPK''" in first level. Also AK-47 instead of "''AK-47''" in second one. Vladimirov KPV instead of Minigun would be awesome. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, this game doesnt suck just because of guns. It sucks because its boring, it doesnt have AI and MP is shitty just like in MW2. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

How is the MP shitty, its definitly not, It developed to be much more balanced than MW2 in every way. Although it isnt perfect,(commando lunges...)it certainly makes modern warfare 2 look like crap as a SUBMACHINE GUN....*cough*UMP45*cough* had more power and range than most assualt rifles. As for the people listing the guns that should have been in the game, all I can say is 'sure I wish they added more time appropriate guns like the Carl Gusav and the Greese Gun, but its too late now and its going to be somthing we have to live as there is no point complaining about it on the internet(not trying to say that in harsh or disrespectful way). I feel if we can all sit down , forget all those anchronisms, and just enjoy this game for what it is, a FICTIONAL cold war/ Vietnam Game. Also on a side note, I think if Treyarh were to have focused this game on Vietnam mainly, then we would have all the correct weaponry, but since there going for a 'top secret CIA' type game,they add all these ludacris guns to accomidate the feel and presence of the cold war.---P226 20:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Pistol grips ==

Anyone noticed that there isnt gun without pistol grip ? Jeez. They put one even on Mosin. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Mosin and ppsh dont have them, characters just hold them like they do.

: Maybe in first person. But mosin has actually pistol grip when its in hands of NPC´s.

No, they just hold their hand as if they were, when its on their backs or they die and drop it doesnt, its probably due to all other characters carrying pistol grips and they dont want too redo characte rmodeling.

I was taking a closer look at when they hold it (Mosin) and guess what, the world models are normal, but when they hold them they DO have pistol grips.... but i do agree, they probably didn't want to make new models. They probably put grips on them while their holding the weapon just so they didn't look even more awkward (floating hands). --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 22:13, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Not all the weapons have pistol grips. If you watch them carefully there are no pistol grips EXCEPT on Steiner's Mosin that is given to him my a Soviet soldier. It is actually modeled as having a pistol grip that is quite visable. Otherwise they do not have pistol grips on anything, it just looks like it. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 16:00, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

== Gold weapon images ==

Do we really need all those pictures of the gold camo? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah. It shows how silly and disguisting tis game is.
Disgusting? It's not THAT bad, man. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:42, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Sign your posts. But, I agree that the gold weapon pictures are rather unnecssary. If someone has the PC version of the game, taking pictures of the standard weapons in multiplayer would be greatly appreciated.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 20:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Semi Auto FAL ==

Since it is semi auto only, shouldn't it be renamed to the SLR? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:56, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

It has a metric reciever and handguards but a SLR-style flash hider... Its a Franken-gun but nowhere near as bad as MW2's FN-FAL was...--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:59, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Snub-nose ==
Could the effect of this actually reduce the visual recoil of the Python, allowing you to fire off your next shot faster, and thus make it "more accurate"? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:56, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

But wouldn't it instead exacerbate recoil, without the weight of the barrel to mitigate it? If anything, a snub-nose would make the recoil more pronounced, and thus less accurate for quick follow-up shots.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 23:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Huh.....looks like I really suck at gun physics when it comes to recovery time and barrel lengths >_> --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:32, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Though it may be incorrect for real life, I'd say Hashiriya's idea is most probably how it works in game. Since all weapons in COD are perfectly accurate when aiming, the accuracy stat is there to show how easy it is for the player to accuratly shoot the weapon, not the actual weapon's accuracy as we would think of it. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

== Tunnel Rat Revolver ==
When in the tunnels, the report of the Python is fairly muted. Is the implication therefore that is it loaded with "closed circuit" shotgun ammunition as used by the experimental [http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg213-e.htm Quiet Special Purpose Revolver] as tested by Tunnel Rats in Vietnam?

When ever its fired inside a building its strangely quieter yet louder when you step outside.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's your eardrums preemptively ('prolly didn't spell that right) exploding? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:18, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, wasn't that ammunition meant for a .44 magnum? Also its just the way it sounds when its indoors.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:46, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Stop Complaining==

Please just stop. Who cares if the guns aren't accurate? Just sit back and enjoy the Game! If you don't like the game, don't play it! [[User:SAMBAMA|SAMBAMA]]

: 1, I dont play game, because its boring and its just ripoff of MW2. Which was crap too.
: 2, This is firearms site. Not some gaming one. So it doesnt make sense to stop complaining.
: 3, I wont be complaining if those guns would be 3 or 4 years from future. But ''30-40'' ?
--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:38, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Your late to the party, we for the most part don't care anymore.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

^ Hahahahaha! [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 19:08, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

==Crossbow==
I was playing zombies the other day and got the crossbow out of the box. I do't know if anyone else has seen this but, at least I think, it bears a major resemblance to the PSE Tac 15 crossbow. Again this is just me but if that's true I'm pretty sure that would make it the most anachronistic weapon in the game seeing as it was made maybe 2 or 3 years ago? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 16:05, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

==1911 in Zombies==
The 1911 in zombies is just the regular nickeled finish like in multiplayer it looks black because of the low light in the starting room. If you go outside by the 'double tap' vending machine you can see it in daylight.

In FIVE where the lighting is fine, its still a Blued finish.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:08, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

== Did alittle overhauling ==

Removed the misimformation (Shiny black finish is called a Blued finish) and another things.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

==Front Cover 1911==

Is it just me or is the 1911 in the soldier's hand on the title picture (the right hand when you're looking at it) missing its hammer? I've been looking as closely as I can, but I just can't seem to find it. An error on the artists part perhaps? Strange though, the pistol marked "Sally" has its proper hammer.--[[User:august.allocco|august.allocco]] 17:32, 30 December 2010