Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Category talk:Manufacturer

2013-01-27T00:59:42Z

Alkillmatic:

Should we add: Metal Storm Limited. They manufactured a couple of prototype weapons at a fast firerate. --[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]])

Category talk:Manufacturer

2013-01-27T00:58:14Z

Alkillmatic: Created page with "Should we add: Metal Storm Limited. They manufactured a couple of prototype weapons at a fast firerate."

Should we add: Metal Storm Limited. They manufactured a couple of prototype weapons at a fast firerate.

Talk:M202 FLASH

2013-01-17T15:09:06Z

Alkillmatic: /* XM191 */

== Manufacturer ==
What company manufactures this weapon? --[[User:RedCharger|RedCharger]] 18:10, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea. But I do know this. When I went through basic training in 1986 at Ft. Leonardwood, Missouri we asked an instructor about the M202. We were told that they were obsolete and being phased out. I spent 14 years (1986 - 2000) on both reserve/national guard duty and regular army and I never saw one. I did get to fire a Dragon rocket launcher once, but they were also gone by the time my ETS rolled around on 02/14/2000.Have you Googled?--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:23, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== XM191 ==

There is a predecessor of the M202 named the XM191. I don't really know how to attach an image. [http://cdn.armiespy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/dp-64_1-300x200.jpg XM191] --[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 05:07, 16 January 2013 (EST)

[[File:Dp-64 1-300x200.jpg|thumb|none|300px|XM191]]

I thank [[User:funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] for the image. Aside, we could add this on the M202A1 Page if it is seen in any Films, Games, Anime.

That isn't an XM191. That is a Russian over and under double barrelled grenade launcher called the DP-64 (there is also a clue in the file name). I don't have an image of the XM191, but i believe it looked very similar to the M202, being four barrelled and having the front section being a solid rectangular block which the launch tubes extended rearwards from. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:16, 17 January 2013 (EST)

Damn, from the side, I thought it was. Now I don't think it will make a appearance.--[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]])

Category talk:Gun

2013-01-16T18:38:00Z

Alkillmatic: /* New Sub Catergory */

Is there a way to make all the subcategories show up on the first page so that you wouldn't have to click next 200 to see the next 7 (of 9) subcategories? -UW

I agree, I didn't even realise there were more subcategories until I looked at the discussion paged. [[Special:Contributions/193.1.104.2|193.1.104.2]] 18:29, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I think there should be some kind of test or quiz that is available to take if you want to practice identifying different guns from all manufacturers. I think it would be a lot better than having to keep clicking on the back button to compare guns and such.

:I second that, an identification quiz, either on this site or posting a link to one on another, would be a great idea.

I noticed that there wasn't many of the CZ pistols listed, could someone add some more?

==Doing a formatting trick with the Smith & Wesson Entries==
I will be doing a little wiki formatting trick on the Smith & Wesson Revolver pages so that they sort in their model order (by number, not treating the numbers as text as it does now). Currently the model numbers are treated like text (so that 1,11,12 are in order, versus 1,2,3,4... etc). NO ONE UNDO THIS formatting at the bottom of the page. Invariably some guy will look at that, not know what it is for AND REMOVE THE FORMATTING CODE, thus screwing things all up. I'm saying pre-emptively for NO ONE to do that!. Thanks for your attention. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sub-Categories ==

Any chance one of the admins could add this to the main Gun Category page? Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:24, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

'''SUB CATEGORIES'''
{|
|
*[[:Category:Assault Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Battle Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Bullpup]]
*[[:Category:Carbine]]
*[[:Category:Flamethrower]]
*[[:Category:Flare Gun]]
*[[:Category:Fictional Firearm]]
*[[:Category:Grenade]]
|| ||
*[[:Category:Grenade Launcher]]
*[[:Category:Less-Than Lethal]]
*[[:Category:MANPADS]]
*[[:Category:Machine Gun]]
*[[:Category:Machine Pistol]]
*[[:Category:Mine]]
*[[:Category:Missile Launcher]]
*[[:Category:Mortar]]
|| ||
*[[:Category:Pistol]]
*[[:Category:Revolver]]
*[[:Category:Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Shotgun]]
*[[:Category:Sniper Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Submachine Gun]]
*[[:Category:UBGL]]
*[[:Category:Underwater Firearm]]
|-
|}

== New Sub Catergorys ==

Is it possible that we can have another Sub Catergory named "Recoilless Rifles". It may be limited having the Carl Gustav M3, AT4, B-10 and a few others. Not sure if it's a good idea or not. And another one named "Drum Fed" such as the AA-12.--[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 11:27, 7 January 2013 (EST)

Talk:Main Page

2013-01-16T16:18:16Z

Alkillmatic: /* Stingball Grenade */

''See [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_1]] for older discussions''

==Unknown Pistol==
Is it a [[SIG-Sauer_P230]], [[Walther PP Pistol Series|Walther PP/PPK]] or [[Bersa Thunder 380]]? -- [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]], 21:34, 26 September 2012 (EST)
:Pretty sure it's a PPK. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:57, 26 October 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Luther Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:Luther Unknown 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Help Identify this sniper rifle==
It's from the movie My Way 2011. A bolt action sniper rifle used by a Chinese guerilla during the Sino-Japanese war, if context helps. I think it might be a PU-type scope, but not sure: [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h41m55s165.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m27s215.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m42s124.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m45s178.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h43m12s144.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h55m51s183.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
:It could be a Chinese [[Mauser_Rifle_Series#Type_Zhongzheng_Rifle|Type Zhongzheng Rifle]] if they are trying to make it reasonably historically accurate, and it also seems to be a match for this but I'm no expert on Mausers so can't say for sure. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:08, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
::Looks about right, although it has a turned-down bolt handle.
:::I assumed this movie was shot in Asia but looking on IMDB, turns out it was actually shot in Latvia making a European gun more likely. Also, it looks like the top handguard doesn't extend beyond the rear sight like it does on most foreign Mauser variants, so I think that would make it a [[Karabiner 98k]], which also has the turned-down bolt handle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

==Thunderheart==

Another movie that is not on this wiki (suprisingly) is the 1992 film "Thunderheart" starring Val Kilmer, the lack of coverage of it is suprising due to the fact it features a prominent actor and a good amount of firearms (2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 19's used by FBI Agents, what appears a Smith & Wesson Model 36 drawn by Kilmer during an attack, as well as M16 or M16A1's that are seen with the old 'Starlight' scopes) in the film. [[User: Czar]]

== Team America: World Police ==

I was surprised to see that this 2004 marionet comedy movie does not appear on IMFDB. Would it be against any IMFDB 'rules' if I created such a page? I watched the movie again over the weekend and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Most guns used by the marionets were indeed somewhat fictional but the creators really seem to have been inspired by real-life guns and I'd love to get started on an IMFDB page for this movie. If nobody objects I will get to work on this. Thanks in advance for your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:02, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:I wouldn't think so; due to the scale of the props, I'm not sure that the weapons would actually be based on actual weapons, just "moulds" of them. I've seen the movie, and I think that they are very generic, so I think that making this page would go against the IMFDb rule of actually identifying weapons. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 15:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The weapons are pretty faithful to real guns. There is at least a Minimi, M134, M4 with 40mm grenade launcher, MP5K (with the stainless steel Navy suppressor), MP5A3, SKS RPG-7 and a few different varieties of AK-47 (identifiable, such as Norinco Type 56 with pig-sticker bayonet and Romanian AIMS). These are just off the top of my head and from a couple of clips on youtube. Even though the guns obviously aren't real I think it deserves a page, as they are all faithful representation of real guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:55, 13 November 2011 (CST)
Thanks for your quick comments, I understand the initial hesitation. However, just check below screenprints and you will see that indeed the makers did their homework, maybe they even checked IMFDB! Commando552's memory serves him right!
[[Image:TeamAmerica-screenshotexample.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I agree that the movie contains a lot of nonsense but I am actually tempted to go ahead, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:11, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:And It will be deleted just like last time as the "Weapons" are just whatever generic 1/6th scale guns the directors could find. they are obviously not real. The page has been deleted before and will most likely be removed again. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:17, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The guns in anime and video games aren't real either. The guns aren't generic from what I can see, can identify them all (more so than some of the guns on pages like [[Crysis 2]]). If mods so no then fair enough, but I think it should have a page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:57, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::: I'm with Commando552 on this one, if it's not eligible because the guns aren't real then all video games and anime should be removed because those guns aren't real they're drawings or digital constructs. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:38, 13 November 2011 (CST)

== New or original gun names? ==

When a gun was originally sold under one name but has since changed, which name should be used? A good example is that right now there are [[LaRue Tactical OSR]] and [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] pages. They are the exact same rifle (OSR image is the standard rifle while OBR is tricked out, both versions are currently shown on the LaRue website as the OBR), LaRue was just forced to change the name due to a copyright problem. In this kind of case, which name should be used? I would have just checked other pages to see what the norm is, but my mind is currently drawing a blank to other guns that have changed their name but remained otherwise the same. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:52, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:Oops... I was the one who made the [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] page. I sincerely thought they were different guns, one a Battle Rifle and the other a Sniper Rifle. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Sortable Tables ==

Zackmann08 had mentioned about modifying our current table format for weapons and actor pages to a version where the boxes are sortable. A sortable template is already made and can be seen on [[Amitabh Bachchan]]'s page (I've now modified it to look a little more like our current table format). This definitely would be beneficial for the gun pages, but I noticed it takes a little bit longer to load and not sure if users will understand what the sortable icon is for. Would like to get thoughts from admins and users on this before a change is completely made. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:18, 16 December 2011 (CST)

:You make a good point about users not knowing what the icon is for. It is in use on wikipedia a lot these days so i think a lot of people are familiar with it and worst case scenario, if they're not then the table is just left in it's default sort. Just my 2 cents on the matter...--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:54, 16 December 2011 (CST)

::It doesn't work with rowspaned tables (like the ones on the [[Heckler & Koch MP5]] page) so it is a one or the other decision. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:28, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::another very good point, but how many rowspan tables are really in use? Other than the MP5 page i dont recall seing any others, though i havent really been looking for them. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:37, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::I've used them a few times, but generally only when there are a number of people from the same show/movie using the same weapon, as I think it looks better than having 10 or so entries with the same title and date in a row. If people decide against the rowspaned tables am happy to get rid of them though, was just my preference. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:50, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::::I feel ya. They are definitely preferable to listing the same thing over and over but if the choice is between that and sortable tables, personally I think the sortable ones are worth losing the rowspan. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:40, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::::I like the idea of sortable tables, especially for long pages like [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta 92F/FS]] or [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. However, I have noticed that currently there's a number of page formats depending on the respective contributor. I may not be so experienced with IMFDB like most of you, but it seems to me that it would make more sense to concentrate on developing a way to create a more uniform page format before we spend time on accepting more 'sexy' features. Pretty much like working on a house and spend time on the roof when the foundations have not been properly laid yet. Take care, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:29, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I totally agree with [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]]. I think what we really need is a single page that we can look at that has a template for everything. A section showing how to make a gun page. A section for actors, section for TV Shows, a section for Movies. That way we all know that this is the page everything should be based off of. This would be far better than saying "look at the M1911 page" because even pages like that have inconsistencies with formatting. The special page could even be put in the toolbar on the left side of the page under "toolbox". That would be amazingly helpful. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:57, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Bunni made a template for gun pages: [[Template:Gun]] That's how a newly created gun page should look like. Of course, the gun specifications sections can be expanded with other stuff, like barrel length (if a gun comes with 2 or more different barrels, like the [[Remington MSR]] for example), country of Origin, Designer and Manufacturer (if it is not in the title of the page, e.g. [[9A-91]]).
:And about the sortable tables: I think it is a bad idea. Why would anyone wanna sort a table on an actor page by the notation or character the actor was playing. Sorting by year is the best option IMHO, on both actor and gun pages. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:37, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:: I can see why you wouldn't want to sort by notation, and character would basically result in sorting by movie, but I can see how you would want to sort by what guns an actor has used instead of just what year. Also, one of the benefits of the sortable tables is that some of the older pages that are NOT sorted can be fixed by simply changing the class="wikitable" to class="sortable". As for the template, it does need to be expanded but we also need to find a way to make sure people know it's there and that all pages should follow it. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:17, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is proving to be a highly educational discussion for me as a rookie IMFDB user. Actually, this is the first time I learn about the template pages, and to be honest I fear I am not the only one. Instead of searching through the website, how about simply displaying links to the template pages everytime somebody clicks the button to create a new page? I am sure this will lead to increased uniformity and substantially lower the barrier for new people to get started on a page. Taking things one step further, how about the following? If somebody indicates to create a brand new page, a question box is displayed asking e.g. to make a choice between movie, actor, gun etc. so that after this choice the relating template pops up? Again, I am not sure if this is feasible but I am quite interested to hear your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:23, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::::I LIKE THIS IDEA!!! We definitely need to make a page that has all the templates listed. Right now its really hard to track down the templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:52, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Search for "<nowiki>Category:Templates</nowiki>" and it will show u all the templates. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:20, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::That helps but still that page needs to be publicized better. It also needs to be better explained. How are [[A-Team, The]] or [[MacGyver]] templates? When I create a new page, I find a good page and I copy the 'wiki code' from it into my new page and then just edit the text. My guess is this is what most people do and I feel like that is what we need. A page with dummy titles, names and guns for people to copy to a new page and work from. Thanks for letting me know about the Template page though. Didn't know that was there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::I think that Zackmann08 is hitting the nail on the head. Building on above comments, how about the following? On the left side of all pages there's the master menu table in blue ('CATEGORIES/SPECIAL/TOOLBOX'). In 'CATEGORIES' one can choose between Movies/Guns/Actors/etc so why not add something simple like 'Templates for New Pages'? If you click that, you'd see just 7 options for new pages; (1) Movie, (2) TV, (3) Anime, (4) Video, (5) Actor, (6) Gun and (7) Others (for whatever else can be 'templated'). Any choice would lead to one single template with dummy info and a short explanation on how to use it. This way an immediate and easy access to the templates will be realized, rather than (I am sorry to say) searching through several menu's in the Toolbox option and finding dozens of random templates. Interested to know what you guys think, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 05:21, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::::This sounds perfect to me! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:41, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:::::So, any volunteers willing and able to start on an addition to "Categories" with "Templates for New pages"? Am not too familiar with such revisions, but do we need authorization from anybody? --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 09:25, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Merry Christmas! ==

[[Image:IMFDB 2011 Christmas Card.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:22, 22 December 2011 (CST)

HAHAHA! I love it!

Merry Christmas guys :) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:05, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Brands Pages ==

I had an interesting idea that I was curious what others thought of. I was thinking it might be helpful to have a page that listed all the guns made by a certain company. For example, a "Smith & Wesson" page that would list all the guns that they have. To clarify, it would only list guns that are on this site. As per the rules this is NOT a gun encyclopedia and gun pages are only on this site if they appear in a movie/tv show/etc. I feel that it could be quite helpful in trying to identify weapons. We could divide the pages into Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Rifles, etc. just like a movie page and set it up as a table perhaps with some of the characteristics listed such as caliber(s), barrel length(s), etc. Would could even have a 'notes' column that list certain characteristics that help to identify it (for example for Taurus 92, "distinguished from the Beretta by its frame-mounted safety").

If this is an idea that people think might be useful, and if an admin will give me approval, I would love to create a trial page for one of the smaller companies. (I'd rather not do S&W to start with if it turns out people don't like it). I could perhaps start with Ruger which has a good number of guns. Please share your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:07, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:Sounds like an interesting plan. Thing is that quite often I see a gun and I have a general idea what brand it could be but then I find myself flipping through many gunpages in the IMFDB hoping that the gun I am looking for has been properly registered under that brand's name. In the case of e.g. Smith & Wesson (to name but a brand...) I can imagine such a page to be very useful. Will be following this discussion, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah it seems like it would be a good idea.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 10:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)

Trial page is up and running! I went ahead and did [[Ruger]]. I threw in a gallery as well. I'm not sure whether it's better have it right after the table or to put it at the bottom of the page or what. Please share all your thoughts on the page! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:23, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I think there is no need for the tables '''and''' galleries. Just simply put the caliber after the gun's name in the gallery. Like: "Ruger LCP - .380 ACP". Sorting gun's by type if definitely good, and seeing the thumbnail of the gun's will really speed up the IDing process (at least for me it will). The whole idea of these pages is great, considering that some guns (mostly Russians) are listed without the manufacturers' names. If more pages like this will spawn, we will need a "Gun Manufacturers" category, or something like that. I definitely support this idea, but the mods will decide. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I completely agree. The only thing is that some of these guns have 5+ calibers which could be cumbersome in the Gallery format... It would be great to have a 'Gun Manufacturers' category. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:25, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I also added the [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]] pages. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:44, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::You could put them in table but have the far right column be a picture (put in <nowiki>[[Image:file_name.jpg|200px]]</nowiki>). Would take up more vertical room than a gallery, but you could then include calibre, magazine size (helpfull for identifying different 5/6 shot cylinder revolvers, and differences between double/single stack handguns for example), year introduced (which would also help with ruling stuff out for IDs in older films/TV) etc. I suppose a notes catagory could also ,be usefull, say if a gun is available in multiple finishes and stuff like that. I think these pages are a good idea, but I think having the specifications section is a bit irrelevent for a company, I would just tag it on the end of "About". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 23 December 2011 (CST)

This is what you mean, Commando?
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Introduced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Remington MSR]]|| .338 Lapua Magnum<br>.338 Norma Magnum<br>.300 Winchester Magnum<br>7.62x51mm NATO || 5, 7, 10|| Late 2000s||[[Image:RemingtonMSR.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[XM2010|Remington XM2010 ESR]]|| .300 Winchester Magnum || 5|| 2010||[[Image:XM2010.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}
You are right BTW, the year and capacity can help a lot in IDing. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:THAT LOOKS AWESOME!!! I am sold... That is how I am doing it. Next question, what do we want to do about variants? For example with the [[FN FAL]] do we also list the [[FN LAR]] on the [[FN Herstal]] page or just the [[FN FAL]] and figure if you are trying to identify the gun you will go to the FN FAL page and look at the variants? Same goes for the [[FN SCAR]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:28, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, that's what I mean. I think this is more usefull than just a gallery, and also it would be a place where sortable tables would definitely be useful, as you could sort the guns by name or chronologically. For a while I've been meaning to do a table of all the Colt AR-15 variants for my own use, but would be good for the Colt page. AR-15s are kind of a special case as their are so many variants that are very similar at first glance, so would include more columns (like upper/lower receiver type, barrel length and profile, bayonet lug, stuff like that) so someone who didn't know much about different variants could sort the columns and work out what a gun is. Regardless if it ends up going on the Colt page, I'm going to make it and put it on my user page to see how it turns out.
::As for different variants I would list them as they can look noticeably different, as is the case with the FAR and the LAR (these are pretty distinctly different weapons, more of a grey area would be listing different FAL variants such as the 50.00, 50.61 and 50.63). With guns like the SCAR, I think the split should just be between the H and the L, not the different barrel lengths. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:43, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:::Fair enough. The other idea that I had was to add an additional column called "variants". This would be great for weapons like the MP5 which all have the same base. Got the idea from this wikipedia page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heckler_%26_Koch_products Heckler and Koch]. Glad to see so many people are taking a liking to this idea. I defiantly want to make it happen. Also, the AR-15 idea is a GREAT one. Perhaps a 1911 page as well. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:56, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::You talking like one page for ALL 1911 variants, or seperate pages for each 1911 company? But then how would we handle, say, an SW1911? Would it be on the S&W page, or the 1911 page? Or both?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:I've continued working on the three trial pages ([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]]). I have noticed that A LOT of these guns are missing the most basic information (no specifications). If anyone is looking for a task, that would be a great one. I will do my part once I get these pages fully up. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)
Loving the idea, I am considering making a SIG-Sauer trial page with the basics only, then going back later and adding in lesser known stuff. But I want to see how these pages come along!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)

'''Please keep in mind that the mods will decide. DO NOT create additional gun manufacturer pages until an approval comes from them. It will be a waste of time if they delete them later.''' - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:26, 24 December 2011 (CST)
::That is why I said wanted to see what happened to these pages first.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:19, 24 December 2011 (CST)
:Another thing that would be great, is if anyone wants to go through the trial pages (([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]], [[Heckler & Koch]] & [[FN Herstal]]) and make sure that each weapon has specifications on its page that would be great. As i was creating these pages I noticed that most of the weapons were lacking the most basic specifications and info. (This could be yet another use for these pages!) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:08, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::We had this discussion in the forum a long time ago, and the consensus was that it was NOT a useful means of classifying weapons on the site. Hence why I deleted the page originally. I'm still not sure it's all that useful. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 08:58, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::::I respectfully disagree. For someone like me who is a still a novice with guns it is exceptionally helpful when identifying weapons. This will be particularly true when it comes to things like the Smith and Wesson revolvers. It is often easy to identify the revolver is a Smith and Wesson but harder to know which model. If there is a single page that list all the Smith and Wesson revolvers it saves us from having to go through page by page. I just find it is so helpful to have one location where you can see a picture and the '''basics''' of the possible weapons. If it is helpful for some of us is it okay to leave these up? I will personally make sure that the pages are done in a professional looking manner and are not sloppily thrown together. I truly believe that (as long as they are done in the proper manner) they can make a fantastic addition to this already awesome website. (ok so that was a bit of kissing up but it's true, this site freaking rocks! :-) ) I'm also using this 'project' as an excuse to update many of these weapons so that their pages are in the correct format with specifications and descriptions.
::::I appreciate that I am still a new guy here and I '''really DO NOT''' want to be that guy who joins and says "nice thing you got going here but you should really change it because I know better." I DO NOT know better, please don't take this in that light. I am merely saying that there are a lot of people who would like to contribute but don't have the knowledge that some of you experts do. I think that this addition would help us novices contribute. I welcome your feedback. Oh, and a Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah to everyone! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:21, 24 December 2011 (CST)

I propose changing 'introduced' to 'produced' and having it be a to and from date. Basically how long the weapon was in productions for. 1995-2005 rather than just 1995 for example. Any thoughts?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Would love to hear some feedback from the admins on this project. I would like to continue with it but don't want to do a bunch of work and then have the pages removed. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:13, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Looks good. I'm a mod here. I really like the Colt page. The S&W page is going to be an intensive piece of labor for you. I agree with bunni. We need a category for these new pages. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:29, 27 December 2011 (CST)

I'm a mod as well and I really like what I'm seeing. This will be a lot of work but I think it will be quite an invaluable resource once it is finished, as long as it is done well. Kudos. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 21:51, 6 January 2012 (CST)

I started the [[SIG-Sauer]] page, and am about 3/4 done. Any help would be appreciated! Oh, and if anyone knows how to change the name of a page I would greatly appreciate for it to be renamed ''SIG-Sauer Inc.''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:33, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:[[SIG-Sauer]] is fine. According to Bunni we are not using "inc" or "LLC" in the page titles. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:34, 16 January 2012 (CST)

::That's fine, I wasn't sure if it was necessary or not.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:19, 16 January 2012 (CST)

== Battle Los Angeles ==

I have a question that I cant seem to get a good bead on, in the movie Battle Los Angeles Aaron Eckhart is seen using an m9 Beretta as his pistol,which I know is the main side arm used by US military forces. However, it was my understanding that the Marines used the 1911 as their sidearm and were the only branch to keep it as the main side arm. Eckhart's character in the movie is a grizzled old vet and had just put in for his 20 at the beginning of the movie meaning that he must have joined back in 1990-1991 and it would make sense to me why he would hold on to something like that. Either way please let me know what you got, thanks NavyBoyd
:For movie-specific discussions, please go to [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Talk:Battle:_Los_Angeles|the associated talk page]].--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 19:57, 23 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Page Templates ==

As part of the 'Gun Brands Pages' project (see above), I am also trying to make sure that each weapon included has specifications listed on its page. I am using the following as my template. If anyone thinks it is missing anything, please let me know. (Note that I made it a subheading with 3 '=' instead of the normal 2 '=' so that it wouldn't be its own category. normally it would just have 2.) I personally don't feel that Muzzle Velocity or effective range are necessary but I am up for input and critique. Just want to make sure I am doing this right! Merry Christmas everyone!
Oh and under FireModes I am including DA,SA,DAO,DA/SA if applicable. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:38, 25 December 2011 (CST)
<br><br><-- start template-->
===Specifications===
(year - year)

* '''Type:''' Handgun/Revolver/Submachine Gun/Sniper Rifle/etc.

* '''Caliber(s):'''

* '''Weight:''' lb ( kg) (empty)

* '''Length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Barrel length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Capacity:'''

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto/Full-Auto (950rounds/min)

-----
<--end template-->
:Another question that one of the veterans can help me out with. With guns that have Variations ([[Heckler & Koch P2000]] or [[Heckler & Koch USP]] for example), should each subcategory have its own specifications with the different length, capacity, etc. For example should the [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] have just one specifications section for the page or should there be one for the H&K P2000 and one for the H&K P2000SK. (This is the way I did the page but I want to make sure that this is ok. If I'm supposed to just do one section I will gladly correct it.) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 25 December 2011 (CST)

== I can't create a new thread in the forum ==

I logged into the forum and tried to create a new thread, but I get a message that says I don't have permission to access the page. I'm using a different username than I have used before, so is my account "awaiting activation?"--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 11:06, 1 January 2012 (CST)
:I had the same problem a few days ago. You want to talk to [[User:Bunni|Bunni]]. He'll fix it for ya. Happy new year. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:28, 1 January 2012 (CST)
::Thanks for your help. I followed your advice and left a message for Bunni over a week ago but he hasn't yet responded. Has he not been around lately?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 10:12, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== I think it's time to end the silencer/suppressor debate ==

I see this a lot, people correct other people "It's a suppressor, not a silencer. It doesn't silence the gun" and I think it really needs to stop. Way back in 1910, the first silencer was patented by Hiram Maxim as the '''SILENCER'''. Way back then, they weren't even that good compared to today's because the technology has been advanced on yet they were still called silencers. Them having the name silencer is just a name, after all there is a model of the Ithaca 37 called "Deer Slayer". It's a inanimate object which cannot slay deer. It can be used to kill deer however but the name doesn't fit it unless it operated on it's own to shoot deer. There are some people named Rose or Diamond but they aren't a flower or an expensive jewel. My point is with this is that it's just a name. Even today, the BATFE calls them silencers on the paper work and many companies that make them call them silencers. There is even a company called SilencerCO.

The reason why a lot of people call them suppressor is because in the 1970s the magazine, Soldier of Fortune, started calling them suppressors and giving the reason that I stated in the first sentence. Most people that I've seen that actually own them call them silencers and they have most likely done their research on them.

In conclusion, calling them silencers is not wrong and neither is calling them suppressors. You call them either and you're right. It's when you claim that silencer is the improper term. Silencer is just a name, it's the way it is.
--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:20, 9 January 2012 (CST)

: I personally prefer "suppressor", it's a nice, ''woody'', sort of word. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 13:51, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:: Yes, "silencer" is a name, but it's a misnomer. "Silencer" suggests absolutely no sound is produced when a shot is fired; "Suppressor" properly states that the sound will be muffled instead of completely silenced. It's the same as saying bullet-resistant instead of bulletproof. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 17:52, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::I don't see anyone complaining that their shotgun doesn't kill deer on it's own. IT'S A NAME and it's correct. .223 fires a .224 caliber bullet, are you going to complain about that too?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:37, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::::I agree. I think "Suppressor" sounds more accurate and professional. If it were a silencer, there would be little or no sound at all, which unless you use a suppressed .22 with half loads and a plastic bottle, is impossible, and even THAT makes a sound. I say we go with Suppressor.--[[User:Scattergun]]

:::::While "Silencer" is correct in general terms, the term "suppressor" is preferred largely because of the Hollywood concept of the "magic silencer" that literally makes a gunshot into the sound of a kitten sneezing. The "suppressor" term was coined to give a more realistic idea of what the device actually does; it suppresses the sound, it doesn't silence it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:05, 14 January 2012 (CST)

== NCIS: LA gun change? ==

The latest episode of NCIS: LA "Exit Strategy" the guns don't see to be the normal Sig 228s. The guns are still Sigs, but with rails, and Deeks was not carrying his normal Beretta. Deeks' weapon may have been the same S&W used in the episode "Empty Quiver". -Tucker

== Single or Double-Stack 1911? ==

Which is a better 1911 variant to have? A single stack or a double stack magazine. I heard somewhere that a 14-shot 1911 is more prone to jamming but I'm not sure. The reason is I am currently writing a script for an independent movie that me and my class will make and I have access to all kinds of guns, both blank-adapted and Japanese flash cap versions, and the main character is to carry a 1911 .45 and I was wondering what the more professional choice would be to carry.
:Personally I would go for a Kimber Custom II TLE or a Springfield Armoury TRP, both are single stackers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:58, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== Novel guns? ==

I know this may seem like a stupid idea, but should we include guns that feature in books? I have several books in my bookcase that go into great detail about guns, albeit sometimes they call sub-machine guns machine guns for some reason. (Seriously, how can you mix it up?) I'm new here, please go easy, but please give it some thought. They could either be on the book cover or featured in print inside. I know it would be pointless to include a screenshot of the text, but there are some pages on IMFDB that are just lists of guns and pictures of the guns themselves.
Alasdair

:Check out the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page. It will help set your straight. Good thing for new users to read (I found this out the hard way just a few weeks ago when I joined). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:35, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Ah, I see. Thanks. Alasdair.

== Manufacturer Pages ==

With more people starting to work on Manufacturer Pages, I'm working on making a template for the pages ([[Manufacturer Template]]). I am going to add a link to it from the <nowiki>[[Category:Manufacturer]]</nowiki> page. I figure this will help to make sure that they all stay consistent. (Note: not all of the pages that I have already made conform to the standards that I listed on the template, I will be fixing that in the next few days.) My goal is to make sure that these pages look professional and are useful! If anyone, particularly admins, has things that would like to add to the pages or to correct with future pages, please edit the template accordingly. Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:41, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Glock Manufacturer's Page ==

I was getting ready to make the Glock page for the new Manufacturers category and ran into a small problem. The new page would ideally be called ''Glock'' but that is already taken by the [[Glock]] page which has all their guns. I definitely think this page would be helpful (at least I know it would I'd find it useful) as it will help you decide whether you are looking at a G17 or a G21. I welcome any and all ideas and suggestions. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:54, 19 January 2012 (CST)
:The actual company is trademarked in all capitals as GLOCK so you could do that. Either that or you could put "manufacturer" in brackets after it, or make this the one exception where you put on the crap after the name, in this case "Ges.m.b.H.". If not that, I don't think a manufacturer page is as important for Glocks as other brands, as they are all already on the same page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:05, 19 January 2012 (CST)
::All good ideas. I'll prolly just go with (manufacturer). I agree that its not as important but it could still be super useful. I think I'm going to add a 'frame' column like we did with the S&W revolvers. This time it will have "Compact" "Standard", "SubCompact", etc.. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:29, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Taurus ==

I am in the process of redoing all the [[Taurus]] gun pages. Giving them all specifications, converting to wiki-table, etc. If there are any Taurus aficionados in the house who are willing and able to fill in the information that I am having trouble finding (mainly production dates), that would be great! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:15, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Beretta ==

I'm in the process of making the [[Beretta]] page. My understanding is that for Semi-Automatic pistols we DO NOT include "Model" in the page title, [[Beretta 418]] for example. There are a few pages that are not consistent with this pattern. Just want to make sure that they are all named correctly and follow the same rules. Could an admin look into this? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Proper name for CZ ==

It has been brought to my attention that the new Manufacturer page for [[CZ]] may not be properly named. The full name of the manufacturer is "Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod". I am hesistant to use this name for a couple reasons. 1) Its kind of a pain to type on a 'standard' keyboard. 2) Most people (I THINK) know the company as "CZ". One possible compromise I'm considering is renaming the page "CZ (Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod) and having "CZ" redirect there. I would love to hear some thoughts on the matter. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:45, 25 January 2012 (CST)
:I would use the full name with a redirect, but if you are calling it CZUB rather than Česká zbrojovka, that would exclude at least a couple of guns, such as the vz. 24 which was made by Československá zbrojovka Brno. I'm no expert on CZ, but it was my understanding that any words after the "Česká zbrojovka" part were just different factories, or is this wrong? While talking about proper names for gun pages, what should the page be called if the manufacturer has changed its name or merged? For example, when I made the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]] page I used the original name rather than Royal Ordnance. However I was going to make a Denel Land Systems page, which was originally called Lyttleton Engineering Works, but the Denel name is much more commonly known so didn't know what to use. Any suggestions for a general rule on this sort of thing? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:23, 25 January 2012 (CST)
::I think we definitely need a [[CZ]] expert to take a look at this page... Any volunteers??? As for the different names, first and foremost, whatever the page ends up being, there should be redirects form all the others. So for example [[Royal Ordnance]] should redirect to the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]]. Also, whatever the final name of the page ends up being, there should be a short explanation about the fact that it is "Also Known As ______" or "Formally Known As ____". As for a general rule, while I think it would be best to go with what the company is most commonly known as, in the end, that is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think the rule of thumb should be to go with what the company is currently known as (use the company website?) and have other names redirect there. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
::As a side note, while talking about redirect, I'm also trying to set up redirects for these pages that will help newcomers when searching the site. For example, if you search S&W now, instead of getting a page listing all the times that that the letters 'S' and 'W' appear on a page, you are now taken to the [[Smith & Wesson]] page. Just food for thought. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:36, 25 January 2012 (CST)
what exactly do you want to know about the CZ? I grew up in czechoslovakia, we used to carry these handguns in the army.

==A question about a bolt ==

Off-topic, but could anyone ID this bolt? http://www.forgottenweapons.com/mystery-bolt
Thanks, a relatively new and inexperienced user.

It appears to be an SKS bolt, or an SKS variant bolt. Although by the size it looks a little too thin. I have no SKS to compare it to, so that is my best guess. -[[User:Hklenin|Hklenin]]

==Site Policy On 'Made Up' Weapons==
Could someone please clarify the site's policy on guns fabricated for films and videogames? I've edited articles on the Killzone games in the past only to have the articles taken down altogether because the guns featured aren't real. Now I'd accept that as fair enough, except other articles (e.g. [[Alien: Resurrection]] and [[Perfect Dark]]) deal with non-existent weapons at some length and nobody complains, even though some of the weapons they describe feature far ''less'' in common with real guns than the Killzone games' weapons did; at least many of those featured parts that were readily identifiable as belonging to real-world weapons. By deleting one and sparing the others, you're creating something of a double standard--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 09:56, 31 January 2012 (CST)

== Gun Title Template ==

Is there any way to get rid of the '''<nowiki><br clear=all></nowiki>''' that results from using the Gun Title template? I noticed that it can cause some problems when the gun in question has multiple images as there will be a bunch of white space before the list of occurrences. For an example of what I mean look at [[Smith & Wesson Model 610]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:14, 1 February 2012 (CST)

== Gangster Squad ==

Since I can't create a thread in the forum I decided to post this here.

The upcoming movie Gangster Squad will be released this year, and someone managed to record scenes being filmed, then posted the videos on Youtube. A couple of the videos feature shootouts.

This first one shows the "Gangster Squad" involved in a firefight and has a lot of M1 Thompson action:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlUBrd0uTc&feature=endscreen&NR=1 Gangster Squad 1]

The second video shows what I'm assuming are gangster-types, which is shot too far away to make positive ID's on all the weapons, but I think I know what most of them are. Two of them are using the usual Thompsons, but the guy kneeling between the cars seems to have a Sten, judging by the way he's holding it. There's another guy firing an smg, which due to the way he's holding it and it's rate of fire, I think is either an MP-40 or M-3. It's impossible to tell because he's obscured by a car. I'm pretty sure the guy up in the building is using a Lewis Gun.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xf0iEgtzBw&feature=related Gangster Squad 2]

I love these period crime movies, and this one looks really promising. What I'm seeing in these videos suggests there will be some great shootouts in this movie, and I just hope that's what we actually get in the final cut--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 09:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

== How do i add upload an image here? ==

I have gun to add, how do i add an image of it?

Also, how do i create a user page for myself?

Sorry if i am in the wrong section. If so, then please guide me to the right section.

:Look to the left; under Toolbox is upload file. To edit your user page, go to the top of the screen, where it has your username, followed by My Talk, My Preferences, ect. Click your username (red means there is nothing there yet).--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:38, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Fictional Airsoft Guns ==

Just noticed that on the [[Milkor MGL]] page there is an entry for the [[Milkor_MGL#CAW_40mm_Grenade_Launcher|CAW 40mm Grenade Launcher]], an airsoft grenade launcher. It seems random that it is on this page as it is a fictional design that shares basically nothing with the Milkor. Are there many other fictional airsoft variants that appear in stuff (only one I can think of off the top of my head is that weird AKS-74U variant that is in Call of Duty), if so is it worth creating a page for fictional airsoft guns that do not have a real world equivalent? I previously made a similar page for [[Blank Fire Only Guns]] that are not based on any specific live fire weapon, would be like that. Anyone have any thoughts on this? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:56, 7 February 2012 (CST)

- Personally, I think if it resembles the weapon, even if its fictional, it should share the page at the bottom. After all, the Bruni 1911 and the Bruni Python aren't real guns but they share a page with their real world Colt counterparts. At least thats how I feel about it. -[[User:Scattergun]]

:That is different to what I am talking about though. The very reason that the two guns you mentioned are where they are (at the bottom of the live fire equivalent page) rather than on the blank fire page is that they are clearly based on real world guns. The Bruni Olympic 6 however isn't based on any particular real world design and is just a generic revolver, hence it being on the blank fire page. My idea was that airsoft guns that are not based on any particular gun, such as the grenade launcher I mentioned above, could be put on one page for ID and listing purposes. My question really was are there enough "unique", for lack of a better term, airsoft guns around to make a page like this worth it? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:10, 7 February 2012 (CST)

== Naming conventions for SIG guns ==

Now that I have finished the S&W pages, I am moving on to revamping the SIG Sauer pages. I wanted to get feedback, particularly from admins, about the consisten disagreement about SIG vs SIG Sauer vs SIG-Sauer and see if we could come to a consensus. Some of the page have the full '''SIG-Sauer''' in the title ([[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] & [[SIG-Sauer P230]]) while other simply have '''SIG''' ([[SIG P210]] & [[SIG SG 540]]). If for no other reason than to make sure that FUTURE pages are done correctly, which is the proper format? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:49, 9 February 2012 (CST)
:It's not a matter of shorthand, the correct title depends on the firearm in question. The pistols with SIG-Sauer as the title were made by SIG-Sauer Inc., while the ones with SIG as the title were made by SIG independently, not with Sauer. Generally, the older guns (P210 & 510) are made by SIG only or Swiss Arms (which refers to themselves as SIG), while newer guns are SIG-Sauer. What I suppose I'm trying to say is that the titles are accurate as-is. As to whether the admins want SIG-Sauer or SIG Sauer is beyond me, although as they are two companies joined together I'm pretty sure there would be a hyphen.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:27, 9 February 2012 (CST)
::OOOOOHHHHHHHHH!! That makes so much more sense.... I never actually realized that SIG and Sauer were 2 separate companies that merged. Thank you SO much for that explanation!
::Given that, disregard my initial question! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 00:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
:::Having said that, I still think all of the page that say "SIG-Sauer" should get rid of the hyphen and say "SIG Sauer", as this is how both the Swiss/German and American companies spell it. If there is an actual reason for adding in a hyphen then fair enough, but has always seemed a bit random to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
Taken directly from the [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] page: ''NOTE: In the past, some IMFDB users have mis-spelled "SIG-Sauer" as "Sig Sauer". "Sig Sauer" is not the correct spelling; "SIG" is an acronym for Swiss Industrial Society ("Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft " in German), and thus, all three letters should be capitalized. Also, it is preferred that IMFDB users put a hyphen between "SIG" and "Sauer".''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:23, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:I've seen the message that putting the hyphen in is the preferred method on imfdb, but I don't understand why this is. As I said, neither the US or swiss/german companies use the hyphen so why do we? If it is a formatting reason or something technical that I don't understand then fair enough, but otherwise I think it should be deleted. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:09, 12 February 2012 (CST)
::I have to agree with Commando here... Both Wikipedia and http://www.sigsauer.com/ list it as '''SIG Sauer'''. Why was the decision made to include the Hyphen here? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:36, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Television wikitable ==

Up until now I have been using the following table for any pages that I convert from list format to table format:
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' / "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
I was considering modifying this to give '''Episode''' its own column. I wanted to see what people thought of this idea...
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Episode(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' || "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
Any feedback is appreciated. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 01:26, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:I've been combining the episode and note columns. I think I picked that up from Ben. That always made sense for me because episode info or notes are sometimes missing or unnecessary, while Show Title is ALWAYS present. I've always tried to supply episode info, and it could get a little tight when it's in there with the show name. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 01:42, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Sako vs SAKO ==

I want to come to another consensus here... Is it SAKO or Sako? I.E. [[SAKO 85 Hunter]] vs [[Sako TRG-21]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:40, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:It's an acronym (Suojeluskuntain Ase- ja Konepaja Oy), which would suggest all caps. If you go to the US website, the page is titled "SAKO Finland." Strangely enough, if you go to the "Company" link, they refer to themselves as just "Sako." --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:36, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Companies w/ one single product ==

I have always wondered, what about those companies that have only one single product, like AMSD, Rafael, DRS Precisions,... (I am sure there is more) Can they have a Manufacturer page or not? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:53, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:Can they? Yes... Should they? No... Just my humble opinion... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:49, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Featured Articles ==

Question for our admins regarding the featured articles on the main page. What is the process for becoming a featured article? I know that for obvious reasons (preventing vandalism, etc.) the [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] is locked, but is there a way for us non-admins to suggest new articles? Could we perhaps set something up whereby non-admins could post an addition in the discussion page for [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] and if an admin approves of the addition, it could then be added into the mix? I really do love the random articles that pop up on the front page but as a very frequent visitor, seeing the same images over and over starts to get a little boring... Even just changing the images for a given "Featured Article" would be nice. For example, keeping [[The Unit]] (one of the best articles on the site) as a featured article but choosing 2 different images to be displayed. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:34, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Wannabe Indie game dev has some questions ==

I'm looking into making a simple target range simulator, most likely in a software like Unity3d or Coppercube which i have experience in. I am however unsure if entire realism is a good or possibly bad move, not only for game-play, but also because I feel it wouldn't have that... special feeling of a video game, when you play a role playing game for example, they all have their own mood. Pokemon is not Final Fantasy is not The Elder Scrolls. My main concern is how all target range simulator's I've played always go graphics realism, but the shooting mechanics tend to be surreal. This makes it not very fun for many people, people who like goals in their games get to set high scores, but not much else. People who possess firearm knowledge are easily ticked off by the fact that it is trying to be real, but lacks true realism due to all sorts of game-play errors. So while this may seem far fetched, my idea is simple. Mix a realistic (game-play) target range with surreal and almost child-like simple 3d graphics and a basic plot. For those familiar with the concepts in Pokemon, the player character has two primary goals, to collect info on all the monsters, and to defeat all the gym leaders and then the elite four. Target ranges would be like gyms, each has people who you can challenge to accuracy, fastest shot, and other contests of skill. While traveling from range to range, you can collect more firearms, not in grass, but from vendors and helping people with small side-quests, etc. I doubt this kind of a game would receive much, if any audience, particularly being that it's too serious and gun-friendly in content for most children (or more specifically, their parents) to buy, and it's far too childish in graphics for Adults. It's a happy middle where it's a game i would personally love to play, and hopefully so would a few others out there somewhere. All in all, I think a target range and competition based collection RPG with a heavy emphasis on gameplay and fun while still maintaining key aspects of gun culture would be a unique game. (things like policing your brass to be reused with powder and appropriate caliber bullets as a cheaper way to procure and load ammunition, maybe even allowing you to tweak the amount of powder that way). It's hard to explain the whole concept as I haven't nailed every little thing down yet. I was planning on starting the project on a smaller scale, then slowly adding more. So is this a good idea or am i barking up the wrong tree? I'd love to do full realism, but I honestly want the game to be atleast partially fun or stylized. (I am not looking for help making this game, I merely want feedback on the ideas) (I also hope I did not break anything by posting this, I am unfamiliar with wiki editing, and I am relying on your guides.) --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 12:31, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:First thing: please post "I am not a bot" after this message before you post anything else on this wiki. Your message seems a little...out of place, and I want to check it's not automated spam. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:44, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Not a bot, Sorry for any confusion based on the ludicrous idea and my unusual name choice. I couldn't find any other place where i could... Oh. you have a forum. How did i miss that? Sorry. Seems so obvious now that it's glaring at me on the left. And now I forgot to sign. --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:07, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Email confirmed on forums, but now Posting Rules: You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts... Whaaa? --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:12, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:::Unfortunately the automatic approvals don't work for some reason, you'll need to leave a message on [[User:Bunni]]'s talk page to get approved. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:06, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== Top Shot ==

For all you [[Top Shot]] fans, we have a new viewer of IMFDB. I just got re-tweeted by Colby Donaldson... He's checking out the page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:16, 22 February 2012 (CST)
:Haha, that's great!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:18, 22 February 2012 (CST)

== SOCOM 4 ==
Anyone agree it would would a great idea to add Socom 4 with the other SOCOM games in the video game category?--[[User:Commandoninja137|Commandoninja137]] 21:28, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== CSI ==

I am in the process of trying to redo the [[CSI]] pages. There are a LOT of guns used in these series. I feel like they deserve as much attention as the [[NCIS]] pages which are awesome at the moment. If anyone has any of the seasons on DVD and is interested in helping that would be awesome. I just finished [[CSI: NY - Season 7]] and am preparing to do season 6. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:46, 24 February 2012 (CST)

== New "Current" template ==

So we already have a number of awesome templates for labeling pages. The '''Upcoming''' template for stuff that hasn't been released yet. The '''Work in Progress''' template for pages that someone is currently working on. Anyone have any thoughts on making a new template for pages that are currently being updated? For example, the current season of [[NCIS]] or the current season of [[Hawaii Five-0]]. There not exactly "upcoming" because the upcoming template specifically says "all images are from trailers" and they aren't exactly a work in progress... Just a thought. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:20, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== New category: "Containing Unidentified Firearm"? ==

I was just wondering if it would make sense to create a new category "Containing Unidentified Firearm" for movies that contain a gun that cannot be identified by the page creator. This way, anybody (like me...) who gets a kick out of identifying a gun that other people could not, can very efficiently assist others to complete pages. If you guys think it's a good idea, any suggestions how to create/promote this category? Thanks for any comments, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:43, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was thinking about that just last night... I think its a GREAT idea! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:32, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::Great! Could you advise on the following; (1) what would be a good name? (2) how to create that category? and (3) how can I get other users to start using the category? Look forward to hear from you, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:49, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I would advise talking to a few admins before doing anything else. We wanna get feedback from them before proceeding. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:38, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::::A good name for this category might be "Movies with unidentified guns" or "Featuring unknown weapons" or something like that. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:16, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::I agree that something like this would be a good idea. Something to bear in mind though, there are a lot of pages with unidentified guns on this site, most of the time because they are only seen partially, briefly, from a distance or in poor lighting, or just due to the fact that they may be "generic" looking (I bet there are a hell of a lot of pages on here that say "unidentified revolver"). With most of these guns it will be impossible to get a firm ID so the tag will remain there forever, meaning that if someone wanted to try and be helpful and ID a few guns 99% of them would be a vaguely pistol shaped shadow (if it was a chronological list this would be less of a problem but categories are alphabetised). I think a better solution might be to have a discussion page somewhere where people can post caps of unidentified guns they have found whilst building pages, adding the new unidentified gun at the top of the page. This way you would be able to periodically purge the guns that are unidentifiable (e.g. speck in the distance) and would allow discussion between people to help ID the guns. I think it would also be a more successful way of getting unknown guns identified, as if you are good at IDing guns you can just watch this hypothetical page and see whenever a new unidentified gun crops up, as opposed to with a category where you don't know (as for as I know) when something has been added to it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
Commando makes a good point. I propose a middle ground. There is a difference between "'''I''' cannot identify this gun" and "this gun cannot be identified". A gun that is only seen for a split second may not be identifiable and may simply be called an "unknown" revolver/pistol/etc. Pages that have those types of guns would NOT fall under this category. On the other hand, if you are working on a page and dont know what some of the guns are, you can add the tag and that will be a clue to some of our more experienced members to swoop in and help out. I'm in the process of capping all 20+ seasons of the 3 [[CSI]]s and there are a LOT of guns (particularly revolvers) that I can't identify but from time to time senior members come in and identify them. It would be great to tag these pages until either a) all guns are identified or b) a determination is made that 1 or more guns simply cannot be identified from the images provided. Basically I look at this as a variation of the WorkInProcess template. The page is done, all guns are uploaded, but not everything has been identified. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:56, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:Check out the template... [[Template:Unidentified]] --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:44, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::As long as it was only used for guns that could be identified if you knew what they were rather than guns you don't see properly it would probably be helpful. Still, would be nice if there was some way of doing it chronologically so you could see when a new thing with unidentified guns is added. Just throwing it out there, here is another possible image to use for the unidentified guns template. I think it looks more like a question mark and is actually made from real weapons (a Korobov TKB-022 and a No. 74 sticky bomb). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:06, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::[[File:Question mark 2.jpg|thumb|50px|none|]]
:::AWWW but i spent so much time making that quesiton mark just right!!! Grrr... Yorus is better tho... :-p --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:29, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
I like the idea and the templates, but rather than make it too complicated trying to get the question mark perfect, what if we just put a gun overlaying a simple, perfectly recognizable question mark. I like the idea of making the gun into a question mark, but I really have to look in order to see it on those. If I had any idea how to make one, I would.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:59, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:I don't mind if the question mark gun thing isn't used, in fact a regular blacked out background photo of a gun would be better as would be more in keeping with the other templates, but what is the perfect "unknown" gun that the majority of people cannot identify? [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Gun_Cylon_stunt.jpg This]? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::We could use something like that, or what about a blurry outline of a gun in front of a question mark? I think that the question mark makes the template identifiable, rather than just the words 'Unidentified Firearm' across the middle.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I like [[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]]'s idea. We definatly want to keep the question mark up there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:05, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Since the majority of unidentified guns I've seen are revolvers, why not make it a S&W Model 27 or a Colt Official Police (or some other revolver... I dislike the idea of using a weird gun for some reason). Maybe make it a Vz 58? It looks like an AK to the untrained eye, and would be mistaken for such if not for the people on this website. Inside joke, huh? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:24, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Thanks for all your input, what a short post from me a week ago can cause hahaha I like the 'Unidentified' logo and I have put it on top all movies where somebody else may be able to identify a gun I could not, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 13:19, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

== Infoboxes. ==

I am interested in trying to get the [[Template:Infobox Movie|Movie Infobox]] more widely used on the site. I think that ''if it is done well'' it could be very useful on the pages. One of the best features of wikipedia (IMHO) is the infoboxes which give you the basic information at a glace without needing to search the page. I would love some input from people, particularly the admins, regarding how best to make these infoboxes better. I want to make sure that the information they list is useful and valid, not just text filler and puff. Post your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:51, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

== The idea to change the page ==

The idea to change the page. An example of the new page. The rest of the site will have a basic table.

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>MP40 Gallery</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=450px perrow=2>
Image:MP40.jpg|MP40 - 9x19mm
Image:MP40Side.jpg|MP40 submachine gun - 9x19mm
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=== Specifications ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-
<div style="text-align=center">
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Category'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="650"|'''Data'''
|-
|'''Place of origin || Nazi Germany
|-
|'''Production''' || 1940 - 1944
|-
|'''Manufacturer''' || [[Erma Werke]]
|-
|'''Caliber''' || 9mm
|-
|'''Cartridge''' || 9x19mm Parabellum
|-
|'''Weight''' || 4 kg (8.82 lb)
|-
|'''Length''' || 833 mm (32.8 in) stock extended / 630 mm (24.8 in) stock folded
|-
|'''Barrel length''' || 251 mm (9.9 in)
|-
|'''Rate of fire''' || 500 rounds/min
|-
|'''Effective range''' || 70 m
|-
|'''Feed system''' || 32-round detachable box magazine / 64-round with dual magazines
|}

Do you like someone, such a proposal? It should be applied to each side of the gun?--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 14:51, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

This is an example of the new layout. It is more clear and transparent. You can change the way every weapon in the service. >>[[MG81]]<< How do you like it? --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 16:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:This new format has not been approved and please change your entry in the [[MG81]] into the correct format already established. Please place your suggestion for a change in the [[Talk:MG81|MG81 Discussion]] page. Unfortunately this table is too big and would make the gun pages too cluttered. We also have many different pictures of guns that don't have both sides photographed. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 19:06, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== New idea to help identify guns ==

So a while ago I started the Manufacturer pages as a way to help identify guns. I had another idea that I wanted to try on for size with people. Recently, I was working on [[CSI: Miami - Season 9]] and came across a submachine gun that I didn't recognize. I immediately went to the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page but was forced to go through every link trying to find the one that I was looking for.

What do you guys think of adding a gallery of some sort to the Category pages that shows the BASIC models of the guns included? When I say basic I mean that we wouldn't need an image of the MAC-10, MAC-11 and Cobray M11/9. Seeing the basic MAC-10 would be enough to direct you to the MAC-10 page where you can figure out whether the gun you are looking at is in fact a MAC-10 or one of the other variants. Similarly, an image of any one of the MP5s would suffice, we wouldn't need images of each of the variants.

If I can get the okay from at least one admin, I would love to try this out on the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page and see what you all think. :-)
(Note that I also posted this in the forum).

--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:19, 17 March 2012 (CDT)

:YOU MUST IMPLEMENT THIS ON ALL THE WEAPON CATEGORY PAGES. Sorry about the caps lock, this is just such an awesome idea, and it turned out so well on the submachine gun page. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 18:40, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::HAHAHAHA!!!! I'm glad you liked it. Give a few days, lets get some more reaction but I agree with you, particularly since it doesn't involve creating a new page, its just taking advantage of a page that already exist. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:43, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

Another thing that could reduce the time looking at gun images is the creation of new gun categories, like "Pocket Pistol", "Light Machine Gun", "Civilian Rifle", "IAR" and stuff like this. This could help filter the guns more. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 18:02, 19 March 2012 (CDT)
:I like that idea. Take a look at how I did the [[Sniper Rifles]] page. I split it up by Bolt Action, Semi-Auto and other. I was thinking of doing the same thing when I do the files section with an additional category for Lever action. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:33, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

One thing that I am defiantly going to need help with is making sure that these tables stay updated. If and when new guns are added to the site, we need to make sure that they get added to the appropriate tables. If you guys can help me keep an eye on the "Recently Added Pages" section that would be great! Also, I just finished the [[Shotguns]] section. I wasn't sure what to do about the [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]]s page so for now I just left it out of the gallery. Input is welcome! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:04, 20 March 2012 (CDT)
:Maybe you should add a "Dual-Mode" section to the list and place the SPAS-12, SPAS-15, and Benelli M3 there. (Or list them in both pump and semi sections) And semi-auto and full-auto SGs should be separated. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:18, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

::Don't want to over complicate things by adding more categories than are necessary. I did put the SPAS-12 in both but I didnt realized that the SPAS-15 and Benelli M3 also fit under both sections. As for the Submachine Guns, there aren't many that are semi-auto only so let's keep them all together. Plus, that is not a main identifying feature since many "Semi-Auto Only" guns are converted for a movie. The point is to help identify the guns. The fact that a shotgun is Pump-Action vs Semi-Auto is very obvious during a movie and will help in identifying the gun. Also, with the exception of dual mode shotguns such as the SPAS-12, these guns can't be converted (at least not the same way an armorer can convert a semi-auto gun to full-auto). In other words, you will never see a semi-auto [[Ithaca 37]] but you could see a full-auto [[Steyr SPP]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:00, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

I'm in the process of working on the handguns section. I am going to need a LOT of feedback on this and will warn you ahead of time that it is going to be VERY cluttered when it is first uploaded. I think I am up to 5 categories at the moment: Compact, Standard, Long, Target and Other. I may split the "compact" into Pocket and Compact but we'll see what it looks like when I'm done. I'm just doing the code in notepad for the moment so that I can upload it in one move instead of in drips and drabs. Keep the feedback coming! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:27, 22 March 2012 (CDT)
:Just completed the [[pistols]] page. I would love some help checking it. I'm sure there are AT LEAST a few typos. I'm sure i mislabeled an image or something so any help is welcome! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:21, 22 March 2012 (CDT)

I propose to add a bookmark with additions to the weapons. Accessories such as scopes, grenade launchers, flashlight. This is to be a gallery through which everyone will be able to recognize included in addition to weapons. All containers in one gallery.--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 05:18, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Guns selected for TV and Movies are not realistic ==

This is a great database and I salute the creators and contributors. But looking through the handguns used in TV and movies, they don't represent what real criminals would be using. In real life we'd see criminals with a lot of Hi-Points; Tauruses; Bersas etc not SIGs;H&K;Kimber;Sphinx;Walther and other expensive handguns. I don't know who is making the selection of handguns for TV and movies but I laugh every time I see a two bit hood in a show who is holding a pricey pistol when in real life he'd probably be carrying some cheap gun with no serial number so he can later ditch it or sell it. Whether it's the prop master or director or producer or if there are kick backs in some way I don't know but it would be nice to see mainly police procedurals use guns that real perps would use.

Again this is not a criticism of the database, you just report what firearms appeared in a series or film. Keep up the good work ![[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Actually, it's been determined that criminals prefer to use the best guns they can get their hands on (usually illegally). This means that while a criminal could go buy some Raven Arms piece of shit, they'll probably just break into somebody's home, look for a gun safe, and hope they get lucky with what's inside. Besides, if you're going to commit a crime with a gun, why buy one and get your name in the system at all? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 04:37, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

Last data I saw was most illegal weapons were not acquired by theft but on the black market, originally purchased through straw purchases. Forensics labs see all types of guns that are used in crimes, not just top of the line ones. Guns used in crimes often disappear, I don't see most criminals carrying expensive ones that will disappear or get resold after a crime. I'm just pointing out that the handguns in TV and movies are beautiful but if the producers are aiming for realism the weapons don't match the streets.[[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:I read an ATF report from a few years ago that stated that the most common pistols used in illegal activity were S&W revolvers and automatics, Ruger automatics, and cheap things like Raven Arms, Lorcin and Bryco automatics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:02, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== P226 Beavertail ==

I am attempting to ID a pistol that is used in multiple seasons of [[CSI: Miami]] ([[CSI:_Miami_-_Season_6#Unknown_SIG-Sauer|Shown Here]]). It seems that it might be a discontinued variant of a [[SIG-Sauer P226]] known as a "P226 Beavertail". Has anyone heard of such a gun? Better yet, anyone have a picture of such a gun?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:54, 7 April 2012 (CDT)
:I already posted this on the talk page for CSI Miami, but I might as well post it here too. The picture on SIG's website under the P220 Beavertail is actually a P226 Beavertail, evidenced by the double stack bulges and P226 written on the grips and slide.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:10, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

==Need some help==

I changed the skin for IMFDB to a different skin... and only afterwards realized the there was no way to change it back. Also, the majority of the links and buttons normally present (including discussion page links) are gone. I can't even access my user account to change it back. Can anybody help me out (such as by providing me with a link to the preferences page so I can change the skin back)? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 01:43, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

==Charles Askins Jr. "Unrepentant Sinner"==

'''I'm sure that several of you know who Charles Askins was. He was controversial and he still is thirteen years after his death. Here is something I found that Massad Ayoob wrote about Askins in 1999. Of course Ayoob is controversial in his own right.'''

''American Handgunner, Nov-Dec, 1999 by Massad Ayoob

The death of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. last year closed a hell-for-leather life that lasted nine decades. He was a national pistol champion, one of the first winners of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award and a big game hunter with an impressive collection of trophies from all over the world. He aggressively sought out maximum action in his careers, first as a lawman and then as a soldier.

He was also a stone cold killer. For those of us who knew him, there was just no gentler way to put it.

Charlie's contemporary, Bill Jordan, once said that killing your first man is the hardest and after that it gets easier, but for a certain kind of man, it can get too easy. Some thought old Bill was talking about Charlie. Not without reason did Askins title his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner.Any future history of 20th century gunfighters will have to devote a substantial chapter to Cal. Askins. The son of a prominent hunter and gunwriter, Junior followed in Senior's footprints and left some marks deeper than his dad.

Charles Askins, Jr. killed dozens of men, both in war and on the streets. When asked for an official body count, the Colonel replied, "Twenty-seven, not counting [blacks] and Mexicans."

Askins was bright, thoughtful and without fear, but he had a darker side. The man's prejudices spoke for themselves. Charlie once confessed to a friend that he thought he was a psychopathic killer, and that he hunted animals so avidly because he wasn't allowed to hunt men anymore.He was sometimes too willing to kill. A reading of Unrepentant Sinner shows confessions to murder and manslaughter. Yet among the many Askins gunfights, there were also acts of heroism, shootouts against the odds that he won with his coolness under fire and his deadly marksmanship.

He spent a lot of his life teaching assorted Good Guys to win firefights, and when the Final Ledger is tallied, one hopes that is taken into account on the credit side.

Askins learned early that a rifle or shotgun always beats a sidearm when trouble is in the offing. His favorites included the lever action Savage Model 99 in caliber .250/3000. For close work, he was partial to the Remington Model 11, a clone of the Browning 12 gauge Automatic-5, with an extended magazine. Night sights not yet being available, he tied a white bandage around the muzzle to index the weapon in the dark.

Askins put the speed of fire to good use. He wrote of one shootout in east El Paso, where he employed a Winchester .351 semiautomatic carbine:

"One night at the foot of Piedras Street, which runs slapbang into Cordoba Island, a team of Patrol officers watched a gang of smugglers scramble out of the willows in the river bottom and pile their load of liquor into an old Hudson sedan.

"Then the cargadores turned and raced nimbly for the protection of the Mex side of the line. Three cholos piled into the old car and commenced to drive away. The BP vehicle pulled up beside the runner's vehicle and with guns drawn, we motioned the driver to halt."The Hudson came to a stop just as I set foot on the ground. The officer who was in the rear seat also alighted. The driver of the gov't vehicle threw the door open on the left side and hit the ground. He stepped down just as a gunman sitting beside the driver of the old Hudson swung a Model 94 carbine behind the driver's head and let go at the Patrol officer in front.

"He was struck in the head by the .38/55 bullet and fell dead. The bullet broke up in his skull and a major fragment exited and by a strange coincidence struck the patrolman alighting from the back seat in the head. It did not kill him, but knocked him unconscious.

"Thus in the space of two heartbeats and with only a single round, the contrabandista had knocked out two patrolmen and had only myself to contend with.

"I ran round behind the smuggler's car and opened fire. I shot the gunman through the eye, the bullet exiting through his temple. I kept right on firing and shot the driver through the kidneys. He later died. A third smuggler in the back seat cautiously poked a sixshooter up over the back seat and got shot through the hand for his pains.

"By this time I was busy reloading. The gunman, despite the fact that he had a bullet through his right eye which had passed out through his temple, managed to pull the driver from beneath the wheel and with him out of the way, got in the driver's seat and drove the old sedan for a couple of blocks down the street where he crashed it into a tree.

"The Border Patrol in those days, as I have said, had no radio communication. I cranked up the old patrol car, after loading the dead and wounded, and got to a telephone and called Patrol headquarters. Before the night was done the trio, the dead and wounded, were all rounded up. It had been a big evening. I did not feel much regrets over the loss of the patrolman. I had never liked him much anyway. The second lad, who had picked up a jacket fragment, was not seriously hurt."

On another night, Askins used the Remington autoloading shotgun, loaded with the 00 buckshot he called "blue whistlers." He recounted:

"They came out of the shadows and, as it was brightest moonlight, I could see every manjack had a long gun in his hands. We let them get up to within nine paces of us and I fired the first shot.

"I had the old Remington with its 9shot magazine and I knocked down the first two rannies in as many shots. I then switched my attention to the other three who did not like the heat. They ran back into Mexico, a distance of about 60 yards and opened fire.

"An interesting facet of this little exchange was that the lobo in the lead had an old Smith & Wesson .44 Russian. Despite the fact that he had a load of my 00 buckshot through his middle and one of the boys had hit him spang on the breastbone with a .351 slug, he dropped to his knees behind a cottonwood sapling and kept right on shooting.

"The .44 Russian is a single-action and this bravo had to thumb the hammer back for each shot. He got off three rounds before a second charge of my buckshot ended his career,

"Quite as interesting, really, was the second gunman who had a Westley Richards 10 gauge loaded with Winchester High Speed #5 shot. We had killed him before he could touch off either barrel. A most happy circumstance since the distance between both parties was only nine steps. I have the Westley Richards today, a memento of lively times long past."

Today, Johnnie Cochran would be hired by the families of the deceased to sue Charlie and the whole Border Patrol for opening fire on the heavily armed gang without warning. Yet doing as they did undoubtedly saved multiple Patrolmen from being killed or maimed. As the saying goes, "Things were different then."

Weapon retention is the art and science of retaining control of your firearm when a criminal tries to disarm you and turn your firearm against you. Plan A is to execute a technique and peel the offender off the gun. If that can't be achieved, Plan B is to shoot him.

There wasn't much in the way of gun retention techniques in Charlie's time, and Plan B was his Plan A. He made it work more than once. He recounted the following in our American Handgunner Annual in 1988:

"I got to my feet and made a run at this coyote and just as I reached him, I tripped and fell down. This bastardo, as quick as a cat , grabbed my gun, which I had drawn, and standing over me commenced to tussle enthusiastically to get it away.

"I had no illusions as to what he'd do if he succeeded. He had thoughtfully wrapped his hands around the cylinder and while I had my finger on the trigger I could not fire the weapon because he would not permit the cylinder to turn.

"Very energetically I rolled up on my shoulders and kicked this sonofabitch in the belly. It broke him loose from my pistol. He wasted no time. He ran for the river which was only 30 steps away. I saw him very clearly against all the lights of Juarez and I let him run until he was in the Old Rio Grande up to his knees.

"I held the gold bead front sight in the white-outlined rear notch and put the gold right in his back just at the belt line. On the shot he pitched forward as though spanked with a baseball bat.

"Three days later the BP Chief told me, 'They dragged a dead Mex out of the river of the Socorro Headgates yesterday. The U.S. Consul in Juarez told me.' I didn't say anything. I wasn't any too proud of the fact that I had stumbled and the wetback had almost killed me with my own gun. (A customized Colt New Service .44-40.)"

The colonel continued, in the same issue of the magazine:

"One chill evening, it was January 1931, we jumped out a big gang of smugglers in the Standpipes district. We halted them on the levee and I ran up to the bunch and some bravo reached out and caught the old Remington by the muzzle and gave it a hell of a jerk. He aimed to catch me by surprise and get my gun, which you may be sure he'd have reversed in a twinkling and given me a dose of those big 00 pellets.

"He jerked on the muzzle and I jerked on the forestock and the pistol grip. As I gave the gun a hell of a tug, I pulled the trigger. The charge of buckshot got this coyote right through the left eye. The force lifted him completely off his feet and pitched him some four to five feet off the levee. The back of his head was quite a mess.

"I reckon I was just too impetuous in those days, for it wasn't three months later until we ran up on another gang of freebooters, this time near the Nichols Packing Plant. I got too close to the leader and he grabbed my gun muzzle and tried to whip it out of my hands. He jerked in his direction and I jerked in mine-- and I pulled the trigger.

"The nine big slugs took him right above the knee. The City-County Hospital took his leg off the next morning. The worthless scoundrel had syphilis and the last I heard the amputation would not heal. I reckon it sorta put an end to his river hopping."

Charlie's actions in the two shotgun grabs would almost certainly be ruled justifiable even today. The shooting of the fleeing man who had grabbed his Colt revolver unsuccessfully, however, would probably be seen as excessive force in light of the Supreme Court's mid-'80s Garner decision.

Askins had no patience with suspects who grabbed police guns. One of his partners was pistol-whipped almost to death by a hobo who had disarmed him of his Colt 1917 .45 revolver. The patrolman had already sustained multiple skull fractures and brain damage from the clubbed revolver when Askins stopped the assault.

At a distance of 10 paces, he killed the assailant with three shots in the chest, double-action, from his pet .4440 New Service 4" with D.W. King sights, the weapon the previously mentioned suspect tried to take from him near Juarez.

When he was actively in the field, Askins seems to have almost always fired the sidearm one-handed. In his later years he would enthusiastically recommend two-handed positions for defense, but he was not an early advocate of the concept.

It would appear that in most of his shootings, Askins aimed rather than pointed. He practiced a good deal, drawing and firing from the point-shooter's crouch position, but practiced more with a sight picture at arm's length for the matches.

He wrote that during one 10 year period, he logged 334,000 practice shots. Though in some articles late in his career he had good things to say about point-shooting, I can find mention of only two such incidents in his personal reminiscences of gunfights.

One was a mistaken identity shooting in which he exchanged shots in an alley with a rifle-armed U.S. Customs agent. The distance was 10 yards. The man with the rifle fired twice and missed both times. Askins also fired twice; one shot missed, and one struck the other man's rifle stock.

He point-fired because he had to: his gun that night was a Colt New Service .45 sixgun, its barrel chopped to two inches with no front sight.

He would write later, "To say that I took a ribbing was an understatement compared to the comments over firing two shots at another feller at 30 feet, down a narrow alley, and missing him. It was a disgrace which took a long time to live down!"

Charlie later mentioned that he had point-shot without a specific sight picture when he shot the man who was pistol-whipping his brother officer. Reading Askins' own account, he seems mildly surprised that he hit him shooting like that.

He wrote, "Each time one of the big flat-nosed 240 grain slugs hit him, it brought forth a little puff of dust. This 'bo had been riding the freight for several days and his clothing was full of dust. I cannot begin to tell you how happy it made me to see those bullets raise that dust! I knew I had him. It made my day, believe me!"

A southpaw, Askins liked ambidextrous autoloaders and lever actions for long guns-- the Savage Model 99, the .351 Winchester and the 12 ga. Remington. The latter, he said, was cut to 22 barrel length for him by J. D. Buchanan, who also affixed a full length extended magazine that held eight shells, bringing total capacity to nine rounds.

For a time when it first came out, Askins carried a 4" Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum in a Berns-Martin breakfront holster, although I can find no mention in his work of him ever using it in a gun-fight. Virtually all his shootings with handguns found him using one or another Colt; not until the very end of his man-killing days would he shoot a human with a Smith & Wesson.

Askins began his law-enforcement career as a forest ranger, using a stock GI 1911 .45 auto swapped from his lifelong best friend George Parker. "It was stamped 'U.S. Property' and had been purloined from the ordnance stores at Fort Huachucha," Charlie later admitted. He wore it in a Sam Myres holster. This was also his first sidearm when he joined the Border Patrol, but he quickly switched to a Colt New Service .44-40 with 4" barrel.

The large-frame Colt double-action was always an Askins favorite. The sawed-off snubnose version he had acquired for plainclothes wear quickly fell out of his favor when, sans sights, he fortunately missed the two shots he fired in the mistaken identity incident.

The same big gun in its long-barreled .38 Special target format, the Shooting Master, was Askins' choice in the centerfire class of bullseye pistol, the discipline in which he captured 534 medals, 117 trophies and the National Championship of the United States. When he became chief firearms instructor for the Border Patrol, he again showed his preference, though his choice of caliber was surprising. He wrote:

"As the Great Depression eased some-what, the Border Patrol at my insistence purchased new revolvers for the entire service. I had small love for the Smith & Wesson, a dislike which I share to this day, and so I elected the Colt New Service in .38 Spl. caliber. The revolver had a 4" barrel, fixed sight and a square butt.

"There were 642 revolvers purchased, at a cost to the U.S. Gov't of $19 each. I had the entire shipment sent to me in El Paso. I shot each revolver and sighted it in. The sights were all the fixed type, the front sight was a great upstanding chunk of metal and the rear sight was a rectangular notch cut into the top strap. I made a tool to bend the front sight either right or left to bring the gun to zero, I filed down the front sight if the gun shot low and filled (sic) the rear notch if it shot high."

In the .22 events, Askins shot a Colt Woodsman auto with a lead weight under the barrel. In the .45 category, his choice was a Colt Government tuned by the same "Buck" Buchanan who had tuned his shotgun and was now working for the legendary Frank Pachmayr.

In the national individual championship, an externally-stocked GI .45 was required, and Askins used one that Buchanan and Pachmayr had internally accurized and fitted with a 4 lb. trigger.

This was one of the guns he took with him to the European Theater in World War II. He swapped between it and his personal New Service .38, that one fitted with a King sight rib and a cutaway trigger guard. He shot men with both guns.

He used 230 gr. ball in the .45 and Winchester's slow 200 gr. Super Police roundnose lead in the .38. Askins believed that an accurate handgun with a smooth action, sighted to point-of-aim, point-of-impact, made the most sense as a defensive sidearm.

Based on his autobiography, the last man he killed was in 1957. Charlie was a U.S. military advisor in Vietnam. While hunting in the jungle one day, he ran across a Viet Minh soldier. Askins was carrying a Savage .358 lever action rifle (with which he had blown away a couple of other Viet Minh who interrupted his hunting on another occasion) but chose to draw his new Smith & Wesson Model 29 and fire it left hand only.

"I let the ambusher have the first 240 gr. slug right through the ribs on the left side. It was probably the first man ever killed with the .44 because it was quite new in those days," Askins observed casually. He finished the man with a second shot to the throat.

In his later life- I got to know him in the early 1970s--he told me he generally carried one or another single-action .45 auto. At one time Charlie was quite partial to the small, lightweight Star PD.

I knew Charlie Askins as a man who was fun to drink with, but a man you wouldn't want to get drunk with. He was an adoring husband and father, a lover of horses and a sucker for stray dogs. When his many fans wrote him, he answered them promptly and (usually) politely. Perhaps it was a natural compensation for the part of him that went beyond survival euphoria in the pleasure he took after killing a man.

I've heard people comment, "Whatever else you say about Askins, he sure didn't suffer from that 'post shooting trauma stuff." I beg to differ.

One of the virtually inescapable things in the aftermath of killing is what Dr. Walter Gorski defined as "Mark of Cain" syndrome. This is the sense that having killed people has changed the way that others look at you, and the way you look at yourself.There is no doubt that this was true of Charles Askins. The men he had killed, and the gunfights he survived, defined him in a very real way. Not just to others, but to himself. You didn't have to know him and talk to him to see it. It was inescapably visible in the body of his written work.

There were facets of Charlie that I wouldn't want in a cop. There was racism. There was a killer instinct, too strong, strong enough to sometimes slip its leash. Some of his shootings, if they'd been adjudicated, could have earned him "life without parole."
Yet Charlie was also the man who first organized firearms training in the Border Patrol, laying a foundation that sees that agency today as one of the world's leaders in law enforcement gunfight survival.
His tenacity, his courage, his coolness and above all his skill at arms are qualities we can all strive to emulate, though few of us will manifest them to the degree that he did.
Let that be the legacy of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. May he rest in peace.''

==A somewhat different perspective on Askins==

July 2008 issue of ''Tactical Weapons'' by Cameron Hopkins

Col. Charles Askins

The fact that Askins named his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner pretty much says it all. When his lifelong best friend, George Parker, was dying of cancer, Askins handed him a .45 auto. Parker shot himself, allowing Askins to brag that he helped his friend “do the manly thing.”

While most of his kills were racked up during his days with the Border Patrol along the Rio Grand River in his native Texas, Col. Askins added to his tally in World War II when he served as a battlefield recovery officer.

Askins rode the river for the U.S. Border Patrol in the lawless “gangster era” of the 1920s and ’30s. His numerous gunfights with contrabandistas and other criminals of the El Paso region are vividly detailed in his autobiography.

The son of Maj. Charles Askins, a noted gunwriter of the day, Charley Junior was born to guns. His old man was perhaps one of the best shotgun shooters of his day, a gifted wingshooter and an avid upland bird hunter. Charley inherited his Old Man’s mantle as a storyteller par excellence, but there was a darker side to Junior’s sagas.

Askins was one of the first recipients of the Outstanding American Handgunner Award. He was a national champion pistol shot. He won the centerfire event with what would be contested as an illegal pistol, but in typical Askins fashion, immediately after firing the winning score he resigned from the Border Patrol Pistol Team so he could go out a champion.

Knowing guns as well as he did, Askins was keenly cognizant of the handling characteristics of the best fighting guns of his time, as well as the terminal ballistics of their cartridges. He fully appreciated the firepower of self-loading weapons and favored a Remington Model 11 self-loading 12 ga., a clone of the Browning Auto-5.

Askins’ war stories were full of details on the guns he favored for combat. He was a master storyteller and his vivid descriptions of gunning down armed and unarmed criminals alike made for riveting reading in the days before political correctness made such confessions impossible.

All’s Fair In War
Always a gamesman when it came to winning at any cost, Askins cheated in gunfights as well as pistol competitions. Once, during World War II when the Allies were set to cross the Rhine into Germany, his unit was stymied on one side of the river while a bedraggled remnant of the Nazi army was facing them, dug in on the German side of the river.

As stalemates tend to go, both sides grew complacent. Askins noticed that every morning at a particular time, a fat German sergeant made his way to a particular bush near the river and squatted for his morning constitutional. This gave Askins an idea.

He found a suitable two-story house with a clear line of sight on the bush and set up a sofa and table in a second story window. He borrowed a range finder from an artillery battery and ranged the bush from the window, a bit over 800 yards. He then found a Garand that was reputed to be more accurate than most and commandeered a Jeep to drive himself to the rear. There, he set up a target using the range finder at the exact distance as the bush was from his house. He zeroed the Garand to be dead-on at that distance.
The next morning, Askins and his Garand were sandbagged when the “fat Kraut” made his way to his usual bush. Once he settled down to his business, Askins centered him on his front sight and squeezed the trigger. Killing doesn’t get any more cold-blooded than that, even if it was done under the color of war in a “legitimate” sense.

Years later, in the late ‘50s, Askins hired himself to Vietnam as a military advisor to the South Vietnamese. Askins had one of the then-new Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum revolvers and was determined to kill the first man with the big magnum.

His opportunity came when he was out on patrol with a few South Vietnamese soldiers, set to ambush some communist infiltrators. Askins gave the word that no one was to fire until he did and he waited patiently until the small column of men had passed. At the right moment, he stepped out into the trail and shot the last man in line. Askins was delighted by the huge revolver’s performance, lifting the body off his feet. He was equally pleased to proclaim that he was the first to kill a man with a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum.

Combat Training
Focusing on what works in a gunfight, Askins learned to tie a white handkerchief on the muzzle of his shotgun to better see it at night. To better train for moving targets, Askins rigged up a target stand on two clothes lines and had a youngster run back and forth, tugging the target so he could fire. He practiced shooting from awkward positions, on horseback and on the ground, all to better simulate the realities of gunfighting.

Askins was one of the first to pioneer the concept of training the way we fight, with man-shaped targets and rapid fire drills instead of bullseyes and slow fire. Today we accept “reality based” training as just obvious, but in Askins’ day, firearms training was based on bullseye-shooting techniques.

== IMDB Links ==

First of all, please forgive me if this was previously discussed and decided against, but what do people think of adding a link to the IMDB page for Actors? So for example of the [[Bruce Willis]] page there would be a link to [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/ Bruce Willis (IMDB)]. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:27, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

:I've done that before. See [[Ken Takakura]] and [[Monte Walsh (2002)]]. There is nothing in the rules that says you can't do that and I like links to more in-depth sites. Actually you're the first person who has even brought it up as far as I know. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:24, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

::I don't think anyone has brought that up, but that's a really good idea! I'm suprised someone hasn't thought of it sooner.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:35, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

== Spoilers ==

I have created a new template to indicate spoilers. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#Unless_it.27s_is_absolutely_necessary.2C_no_Spoilers|Rules, Standards & Principles]], spoilers should be avoided at all cost! Sometimes, however, they are unavoidable. When that is the case, it is good practice to warn readers before they start reading the page. The template is super easy to use. Check it out! ([[Template:Spoiler|Spoiler Template]]). I will state again so that it is super clear, '''SPOILERS SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COST!''' The use of this template '''DOES NOT''' mean that it is okay to include major spoilers just because you warned the reader. The template simply helps warn the reader of '''UNAVOIDABLE''' spoilers. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:21, 25 April 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

I have created another new template ([[Template:Ongoing]]). This is for use for TV shows that are currently on the air. So for example [[CSI: NY - Season 8]] or [[Top Shot - Season 4]]. It is way of saying "this page is continuously being updated and may not be current" and differentiates from the [[template:WorkInProgress|WorkInProgress Template]] which should be used for pages that someone is working on at this very moment to improve. I have added a picture to the template that is certainly subject to change BUT anyone changes it, lets come to a consensus on what the new image should be. I started a discussion thread about it [[Template_talk:Ongoing|HERE]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:38, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== What if only an image of a gun but not the gun itself appears in the movie? ==

I have a question: if an image of some gun is shown in the movie (as photo, drawing or a fragment of some other movie) but the gun itself never appeared, will it be correct to put this gun on the movie page? For example, on the following screenshot from ''[[For a Cop's Hide (Pour la peau d'un flic)|For a Cop's Hide]]'' we see a poster with four revolvers.
[[Image:Pour la peau Police revolver-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Is that enough to put these revolvers (they are supposed to be early S&W models) on the movie page?
- [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 13:14, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:No. Its not. The gun itself should appear (IMHO). Particularly when its hard to tell what the guns are. It would be one thing if it was clear EXACTLY what model of gun it was but there is no way to tell from these pictures. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:08, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::I agree, but no one seems to have objected [[NCIS:_The_Video_Game#M1911_Variants|in the past]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:12, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well that is a video game, not a film. But still, '''''I''''' don't think it should be included. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::::I think as a general rule they should be included. The purpose of the site is so that when someone sees something in a show or movie they can come here to find out what it is, on matter what format it appears in. As long as it is identifiable as a specific gun I say include it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:39, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::SORRY [[User:Commando552|commando552]] I have railed against this like a maniac for years. Just a PICTURE of a gun that is incidental in a scene DOES NOT QUALIFY and does not have to be included. It is ridiculous and also, people who have seen it have laughed at it. So no. I don't want IMFDB to become a laughing stock, thank you very much :) We've been accused of having Asperger's Syndrome in media before. This would cement that stereotype. :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::Maybe such items (pictures, stock footage etc.) are qualified for Trivia section? Or they must not appear at all? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 00:47, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::::I'd have to disagree there; if the picture is an identifiable weapon rather than just a generic Elmer Fudd drawing, people might want to know what type of weapon it is. The internet accuses anyone who knows anything about anything of having Asperger's sooner or later, you just have to roll with it. Besides, we have pages for media that consist entirely of drawings. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::And I disagree with you :D People push the envelope all the time. If it's OBVIOUS and "In your face" in the shot, then perhaps. See this example that I put in [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AC-POPE-AKa.jpg]] because it was front and center of the screen. You couldn't help but notice it. But casual posters or graphics on distant walls? No. NO one will wonder about a fleeting glimpse of a gun safety poster in the back wall of a police station. And I'm a bit surprised at you. ;) Equating this sort of appearance with Anime is not really honest. LOL. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::Well, like I said below you should be reasonable about it, but if someone might concievably ''want'' to know what type of gun is visible in a shot, we should tell them. Obviously if it's something so small that only someone looking very carefully at a still frame would notice it at all that's different, but I find these kinds of incidental shots just show the uploader has done a complete job. I guess it applies more in videogames where you can often be as close to or as far away from the poster as you like, but I always thought a good guideline was not to worry about ''how'' a weapon appears in something as long as it does. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:15, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::::But here is a classic case. You can't get any closer to the poster to positively identify WHAT the guns are. I think they are H&R revolvers, since I have two which look just like they do. But if WE (as in IMFDB) can't positively identify them with reasonable certainty (and in this case we cannot), then we aren't offering any sort of service at all, are we? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::::Yeah...It's troublesome because they're clearly ''there'' in that shot but it would look weird having an entry purely to say we don't know what they are. I think I'd agree with you that this one shouldn't be included, I was just speaking in more general terms (and as usual as someone who mostly does game pages where a poster might be a photograph and therefore more real than the weapons that are actually ''in'' the game :D). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::As for what these are, they look more like [[Colt New Line 38 Caliber Revolver]]s than early S&Ws to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:48, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::[[File:Colt New Line 38.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:I think what matters is if you can ID it positively, not how or where it appears. The acid test is if people will say "what gun is that?" and people will still say "what gun is on that poster?" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:25, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

So I have another new template to report! This one ([[Template:Convert|Convert]]) is a unit converter. It allows you to input specs for a gun without having to use Google or another form of unit conversion. '''There is NO need to go back and put this on gun pages where both the Metric and "Standard" values are already listed.''' But for new pages, or pages that only have 1 of the two values, this template can be used. I welcome any and all feedback! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:43, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

== Yet ANOTHER new template ==

I am just going nuts with these templates. :-) We now have the [[Template:IMDB Actor]] which will allow you to create a link to an actors IMDB page. I welcome feedback on this and all the other templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 10 May 2012 (CDT)

== Row span or Not.. ==

Whats the deal with using Row-Span... Personally I think it makes the tables more confusing because the boxes are no longer uniform... Whats the rule here? Should we use them when possible or avoid them? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:22, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== A Category for Biographical Movie ==

I suggest to make a new category "Biographical Movie" for the movies that describe the life of famous persons. This idea came to me when creating a page for ''[[Young Winston]]''. Here are more movies that fit to this category, of course. What do you think about it? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 04:58, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Error ==
When I try to make a new page, I get this
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 4053 bytes) in /home/imfdb/public_html/w/includes/media/Bitmap.php on line 213
What the shit? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:56, 28 May 2012 (CDT)
:Must be you. I made a test page here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/To_the_Limit]] though I don't have a ton of info on it, I made it just to test the new page capability. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:47, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== How to list color variations of guns ==

This is a question I have had for a while. Say that a standard pistol as well as a different color variation appear in the same movie/TV show. What is the preferred way to list that? In the past, I have always had one section for both, with a picture of each variation under the same heading (such as [[Human_Target#Walther_P99|here]]). However, I have seen some pages with seperate headings for each ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_1#SIG-Sauer_P226_.28Stainless_Slide.29|here]]), as well as one section with subheadings ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_3#SIG-Sauer_P226|here]]). So, which is the preferred way to list them?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 01:51, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

== Unidentified Guns ==

Just a reminder to anyone here who is particularly good at recognizing guns, there is a new category for pages that have Unidentified weapons. [[:Category:Unidentified]]. Check out these pages and help if you can! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:51, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Sterling 22LR pistol in Taxi Driver ==

Was looking at the picture when Travis is shooting his guns at the range, picture shows a Sterling 22LR pistol but it's a Galesi 22LR pistol.
Both pistol are look alike but they do have distinctive grips.

== Wikipedia ==

Hey guys. I am going to attempt to add an entry for IMFDB to Wikipedia. The page was previously deleted because it was poorly done. Is there anyone who would be interested in helping to contribute? Every little bit helps... I want to get a bunch of stuff together BEFORE I add the page so that it doesn't get deleted right away. Anyone interested feel free to post on my talk page! Also, if anyone can find any press attention that the site has received that would be super helpful! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:04, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:If I recall, older incarnations of the page were killed for relevance reasons. I'm not sure if there's anything we can do about that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:23, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::I spoke with the admin who killed it last time (over a year ago). He said that the previous incarnation failed to explain its significance. I think its safe to say the site has grown considerably since then... He also said that if we can demonstrate its significance it would stick around. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:31, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::How are they defining significance? It seems so subjective. What other wikis have made it onto wikipedia? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:42, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
Here is a list: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis List of Wikis] (I just added IMFDB to it). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:54, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

== Table Text Alignment ==

Is there a particular reason that text hasn't been aligned "centered" in tables?? Seems like it would look much better... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:49, 14 June 2012 (CDT)

== "Bollywood" Category ==

When I went to add the production nationalities for the ''[[Dredd]]'' page I just made I needed to add British and Indian. However, in the Produced/Filmed categories there is only the "Bollywood" category. I sure as hell would not call this a Bollywood film, so what am I meant to use? I think there should be an Indian Produced/Filmed category for films like this, but should it replace the Bollywood one or leave that separate? I know you can't redirect categories if it was decided to replace it, but there are only a dozen or so in the category so would be easy to do it manually. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:49, 21 June 2012 (CDT)
:Agreed. "Bollywood" only addressed a particular aspect of Indian cinema anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:01, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Ammunition list ? ==

I can make a list of ammunition ?
: 1 - What do you mean? Clarify your remarks with more detailed descriptions of what you want to achieve and 2 - SIGN your posts. Anonymous postings tend to carry less weight because they are usually NOOBS that do it. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::How does this help us ID guns in movies? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:24, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I can haz cheeze burger? :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

I have agree with chinaman on this on though how about having it for a category [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 18:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:There are some scenes in movies where the magazines/cylinders are shown with rounds in them. I suppose it might help in those cases, but not much for anything else. While it might be cool, it doesn't help identify firearms in a significant manner. If the mag is shown, you can probably find a (better) shot of the actual gun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:32, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::In my experience, if you see loose ammunition, it rarely goes with the gun anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 19:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

This, then, do such a site or not?
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 05:05, 25 June 2012 (CDT)
===My Example===
====Pistol/ Revolver Cartridges====
=====Caliber .38, .380, .357, .35 (9 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.357 Magnum.jpg|.357 MAGNUM
File:9x18mm MAKAROV.jpg|9x18mm MAKAROV
File:9x19mm NATO.jpg|9x19mm NATO (PARABELLUM)
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Revolver</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:ColtKingCobra.jpg|[[Colt King Cobra]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtMagnumCarry.357mag.jpg|[[Colt Magnum Carry]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtPython6In.jpg|[[Colt Python]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:Taurus617.jpg|[[Taurus Model 617]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=====Caliber .45 (11.45 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.45 acp.jpg|.45 ACP
File:.45 colt.jpg|.45 COLT
File:.45 GAP.jpg|.45 GAP
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Pistol</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M1911Colt.jpg|[[M1911A1]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP-45.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45|FNP-45]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP45Tac.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45_Tactical|FNP-45 Tactical]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:Glock21.jpg|[[Glock_21#Glock_21|Glock 21]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Submachine Guns</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M3 Grease.jpg|[[M3_/_M3A1_"Grease_Gun"|M3 / M3A1 "Grease Gun"]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:IngramMAC10.jpg|[[MAC-10#MAC-10|MAC-10]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:UMP 45.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:H&K-USC Rifle.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_USC|Heckler & Koch USC]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 08:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==I want to upload images in movie for my page ==
How do i can upload images in movie for my page ? What should i do now ?
Please tell what you know. Thanks !

or you do it for me.
:Or, you do it yourself. Yeah, let's go with that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:16, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==Can you...?==

Can you create these pages ? These movies are great movies:

1.Shanghai (2010)

2.The Flowers of War (2011)

3.Halloween II (2009)

4.Friday the 13th (2009)

5.See No Evil (2006)

6.Oba: The Last Samurai (2011)

7.Terror Trap (2010)

8.The Quiet American (2002)

9.What Love May Bring (2010)

10.Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008)

11.Spoils of War (2009)

12.In Tranzit (2008)

13.Max Manus: Man of War (2008)

14.The Keeper (2009)

15.Born to Raise Hell (2010)

Special: Pink Panther (Animated Series) and Old Master Q (Chinese Comics).

== Jack Reacher ==

I'm not sure what the rifle Jack Reacher is seen firing in the trailer. Here's a screenshot. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:18, 7 July 2012 (CDT)
[[File:JackR 102.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]
:Kind of a guess as you barely see it, but I would say it is a SIG P556 SWAT upper on a SG 550 series lower, which has appeared in a few things but most prominently in ''[[Salt]]'':
:[[File:SIG 552 2tone.jpg|thumb|450px|none|]]
:It clearly has a SIG gas block and bayonet lug, but it looks like the front slide slopes backwards (along with the same flip up rear peep sight) and it has a birdcage flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Collapsible Tables ==

This is an important note to ALL users. We are in the process of testing out a new idea of collapsible tables. For the time being, '''DO NOT''' implement this on any pages! This is a test that the admins are considering using on SOME pages. If you would like to weigh in on the discussion, you should feel free to do so [http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2005 here in the forum]. But I say again, DO NOT use this on any pages until the admins come to an agreement. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:05, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Percussion Pistols? ==

Should we have a page for percussion pistols, like we have a page for [[Flintlock Pistol]]s? They have appeared in stuff but currently there is no place to list them. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== imfdb on facebook ==

Did you guys notice the fan art logo of imfdb on facebook? I don't know who made it but it looks pretty badass. [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=262195507218912&set=a.109183475853450.11004.109180049187126&type=1&permPage=1] - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:32, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Park Boys ==

I've been visiting this site for couple of years now and yet I have not seen a page for neither the movie(s) or the show.
:If you want a page for this, go ahead and make it, don't expect others to do it for you and sign your posts.--[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:38, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::A page did exist, but was deleted for poor quality. Some users [[Talk:Trailer Park Boys|are working on it]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:44, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel==
Can someone help me make a page for this? I can fill in the blanks but the framework for the page is hard for me to set up (my HTML sucks), there is plenty of INGAME footage from the Gamescom gameplay trailer as well as their website.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 13:00, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:If you need help with editing, you can copy and paste from existing pages, or refer to the [[Help:Editing|help]] page. On a personal note, I'm a bit reluctant to help create another page for a console-only game that I'm almost certain will remain incomplete for years to come. Getting screenscaps from a console-only game (like AoT:tDC) require extra equipment and expertise that very few users here have, and it'd be unfair to toss this into their lap to finish. But that's just my two cents. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:18, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Ok, this is a standard form, though I do think a console-only game isn't a great thing to start with. Don't copy the nowiki tags or the one br line seperator, obviously:

<nowiki>{{Template:Upcoming}}</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[Image:BoxArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''NAME OF GAME'' (DATE)]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>'''''NAME OF GAME'''''</nowiki> is a (short description of the game)

<nowiki>'''The following weapons are used in the video game ''NAME OF GAME'':'''</nowiki>

<nowiki>=Class of weapons=</nowiki>

<nowiki>==A weapon==</nowiki>

<nowiki>A [[weapon]]</nowiki> is used by men to do things in a level.

<nowiki>[[Image:Gun Image.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The real gun's name - calibre]]</nowiki><br>
<nowiki>[[Image:Screenshot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Description of the screenshot.]]</nowiki>

(repeat)

<nowiki>[[Category:Some Categories]]</nowiki>

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:20, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Thank you for all the help, I still have issues uploading the pictures (I know lots online, I just dont know how to get them in the correct format). Also BTW the game will be multiplatform as well. All I really need to get is the beginning format set up, I can fill the rest (I have tried before but I was having issues with standards. Sorry I can make a basic template and filler, but to make it look nice need help. I am learning how to do HTML just been a while, thanks for all the support, I will use the template above to start the page, there is already box art and plenty of pictures, but all I know how to do is copy the URL and make a hypertext link) --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:38, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
::The official website says PS3 and X360 only, I haven't seen anything about a PC release. The first two games in the series were console-only as well. If you want to practice, there are plenty of incomplete pages available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:46, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:Uploading an image is done with the "Upload file" or "upload multiple files" options in the sidebar on the left; images must be in .jpg or .jpeg format or they won't upload. The format for an image is <nowiki>[[Image:NAME.jpg|thumb|ALIGNMENT|SIZEpx|CAPTION]]</nowiki>. The name of the image appears at the top of its page or the tail-end of the URL can be used; for example, this image:

:http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:636542_237822_front.jpg

:You copy everything after "file" at the top of the screen.

:<nowiki>[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]</nowiki>

:becomes

:[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]

:Does that help? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

::Tangentially related to that explanation, is there any reason that you have to do "Image" rather than just use the default "File"? I just copy and paste the whole title in so all my posts use the "File" and it seems to work, or are there ill effects that I'm not aware of? If nothing else it is one letter shorter so should make the page size slightly smaller. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:26, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:::Apparently the prefixes are interchangeable, I just prefer image. I don't think it's worth worrying about, but I do prefer if every image on a page at least uses the same one. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Well your explanation was solid, and I liked the fact that you used all the steps clearly, Ill be working on it soon and let you know. Thanks! --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:50, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== Octopussy ==
Does anybody have any ideas about the unknown guns featured in this movie? Please help identifying them. I'm trying to contact Bapty & Co about it but I haven't had any luck yet.
([[User:Thejoker|Thejoker]] 13:00, 19 August 2012 (CDT))

== Broken front page ==

Hi, does anyone know when the front page will be fixed? Rely on it for informing me what's new on the site.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:26, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
:Don't know when it will be fixed, but you can get all the information that was on there from different places. If you want to find newly made pages you can look at [[Special:NewPages]], and if you want to find recent updates and discussions you can go to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and filter by either "Main" or "Talk". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:30, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
::As stated in the Forum, the "Dynamic Page List" extension is not compatible with the new version of MediaWiki. I encourage you to use Commando's ideas for tracking new pages and seeing whats new on the site. We are leaving the page as is because we have another change coming that will fill that space. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 12:24, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

== talk new updated are they gone ==

will these subjects come back or are they lost forever due to up grade
--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

yay they brought back the old format thank you

== identification colt ==

Which colt uses belmondo in "hold up" ? python or diamondback ?
[http://www.toutlecine.com/images/star/0008/00085238-jean-paul-belmondo.html]
and in "ho!" ?

== Calling all Wiki-Experts ==

On this wiki we have a TON of knowledgeable gun fanatics. They range from the casual gamer to the Weapon Armorer and everything in between. What we are lacking, however, is people who are proficient in wiki-markup. Anyone out there who considers themselves to be be proficient with wiki-markup, please respond to this post or drop me a message on my talk page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 13:20, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

==Borderlands 2==
I know that Borderlands 2 is a fictional universe and thus may be under scrutiny about making a page, but there are both weapons that are modeled (even named) after real guns. On top of that the weapon icons which describe the type of weapon (handgun, shotgun ect) use real life weapons to indicate them. For example the handgun looks like a [[Jericho]], the shotgun a [[Remington 870]], SMG [[MP5K]], Assault Rifle [[M16]]. That would be great. Would be hilarious if someone on the discussion page of it at least wanted to post all of their weapons they have found, but it would probably crash the internet ;) Thanks for the help. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 12:57, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

== Magnum PI and his 9mm Colt ==

Why was it that only 9mm blanks were available during all seasons of Magnum PI? Could they not have hired the right people to make 45 cal blanks? Or imported them from the mainland?
:At the time .45 blanks were notoriously unreliable, a lot of 1911 guns at the time used 9mm versions for firing scenes due to the 9mm being a much more reliable round. It's only really been in recent years that .45 blanks have become more reliable. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 19:54, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

Interesting. Who would have guessed? :) --[[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 16:22, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

== First article ''Hennessy'' (1975 IRA film) - feedback? ==

Hi, I just wrote my first IMFDB article (I know wiki code from other sites before this): [[ Hennessy ]], a movie about a man whose family is killed by British troops in Belfast, driving him to seek revenge against the British government. Could some people look over my new article and say if it works so far? Thanks for any ideas on how to improve it or things to do better next time? Thanks! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 12:04, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

::Looks good to me. I added a couple more categories and the name of the movie to the movie poster along with the year that it was produced. Good work linking the actors and firearms to the movie. Many newer members forget to do that. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 03:35, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

:::Thanks for the help! I've added another film, 1959's ''[[Inside the Mafia]]'', mostly because it has the FedLabs 37mm gas-guns at the end, and those are awesome. [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 21:32, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

== Help ID revo in [[ Blue Lamp, The ]] (UK, 1950)? ==

Not many guns in this film, but there is one revo in the intro, and another pair later that are seen pretty clearly. Anyone decent with revo ID if the image is quite clear? I'm pretty sure it's a S&W, and it looks quite large so I almost thought it's some kind of M1917 in .455, or a Hand Ejector or something. Any second opinions? Also when I turn up the contrast, I believe the "cosh" used may be a length of pipe due to seeing a bit of a suggestion of a circle/tube in the image. Thanks for any input! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 23:39, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
:"Lengths of pipe" do not qualify for inclusion on this site. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 22:19, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== Why does Bond get a 9mm Walther PPK? ==

Why is it that Bond's PPK (in his recent films...Skyfall) a 9mm and not a .380 acp? They chose to use the 9mm cal blanks back in the 80's for the filming of the Magnum PI TV series because (as some one in this forum informed me 45 caliber blanks were unreliable). Are .380 acp blanks not reliable today? in 2012?? [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:48, 14 November 2012 (EST)
:It is a .380. In the trailer (haven't seen film yet), Q refers to it as "PPK/S nine-millimeter short". 9mm short is another designation for .380 auto. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 18:52, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Good call Kaptain. I thought they just said "9mm" in the trailers for Skyfall and had taken liberties in creating a "bond gun". Forgot they did correctly refer to as a "9mm short" which is what a .380 is...a "9mm Kurz". [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:59, 14 November 2012 (EST)

== Spoilers? ==

Just a simple question asking how do spoilers work on these wiki's as i've seen the Max Payne 3 page it contains a lot of spoilers and i think this is just wrong, Please tell me do we have to mark them as spoilers or does this website allows Spoilers?
--[[User:Faizanali|Faizanali]] ([[User talk:Faizanali|talk]]) 03:02, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:The bottom line with spoilers is to avoid them at all cost when possible. With a video game page, this is slightly less of a concern than with a Movie page, but still, unless there is no other way to describe when/how the weapon is used, it should be avoided. A common technique to deal with this spoilers is to make them white text and put "Spoiler (highlight to read)" before it. If you have any questions about how to do this, drop me a message. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 10:40, 20 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, avoid them where ''practical'' is probably a better way to phrase it, and it often isn't practical since you have to say when and where the weapon appears. Glancing over the page I can't see what you're talking about regarding containing spoilers, it doesn't really give away anything about the overall plot and things like Max growing a ridiculous beard and going to Brazil can't be considered spoilers since Beard Max is on the back of the box. I'm not a huge fan of the "highlight to read" spoiler method myself, either you have to say something (in which case it should be regular text) or it shouldn't be there at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:54, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::At the end of the day, we're here to document firearms usage by actors, so that comes first. If that has to come at the expense of spoilers, then so be it, but please try to avoid spoilers if at all possible. For example, we can just say that actor X uses a particular weapon, we don't have to specify what he does with it or to whom. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:11, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== Forum Registration ==

I wanted to register in the forums, but the registration is disabled. Any idea when registrations will be open again?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] ([[User talk:Gunkatas|talk]]) 17:54, 21 November 2012 (EST)
:Forum registration has been disabled to prevent spam. Please see the [[Forum Request]] page. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 20:00, 21 November 2012 (EST)

== Stingball Grenade ==

Should I make a page about the Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade?. The only movie I seen it in is ''[[The Longest Yard (2005)]]''
[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 01:05, 27 November 2012 (EST)
[[File:http://www.bhigear.com/productimages/bh-cts-95.jpg|thumb|none|Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade]]

== Walther Firearms ==

Do we have any Walther Firearms "experts" in the house? If so, drop me a message. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 15:19, 11 December 2012 (EST)
:What specifically do you want to know about? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:22, 11 December 2012 (EST)
::I've been doing some cleaning up on Wikipedia with some of the Walther pages. If you have anything you can contribute that would be great. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 16:49, 11 December 2012 (EST)

== Fresh eyes ==

I need some fresh perspective on an ID. Please ID the pistol. Thanks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 19:49, 11 December 2012 (EST)

[[Image:DDTMonica'sPistol 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:DDTMonica'sPistol 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:DDTMonica'sPistol 4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Photoshopped Bushmaster ACR to look like MASADA ==

[[File:Magpul_Masada_Clean_Low.jpg|400px|thumb|none|]]

I took the Bushmaster ACR photo and tried photoshopping it to make it look like a Magpul Masada.
I know Bushmaster ACR and Masada are practically the same weapon but there nevertheless are some minor differences... so I changed them.
This was all because it was so difficult to find a nice clean picture of a Magpul Masada with a white background.
What do you guys think?

:Eh, I'd rather have a non-white background than a shoop, personally. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:15, 30 December 2012 (EST)

::Agreed, also there are several inaccuracies with this shop (along with probably some proportions differences that I can't tell). Firstly it has an ACR serial number, secondly it has the fixed stock rather than the side folding one on the Masada, and lastly it has the current flat style of brass deflector as opposed to the one used on the Masada which had more of an M16A2 profile to it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:45, 30 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:M202 FLASH

2013-01-16T15:51:47Z

Alkillmatic: /* XM191 */

File talk:Dp-64 1-300x200.jpg

2013-01-16T11:07:54Z

Alkillmatic:

This is the XM191, the predecessor of the M202A1 FLASH. For some difficult reason I can't attach an image on the Talk Page. --[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 06:07, 16 January 2013 (EST)

File talk:Dp-64 1-300x200.jpg

2013-01-16T11:07:14Z

Alkillmatic: Created page with "This is the XM191, the predecessor of the M202A1 FLASH. For some difficult reason I can't attach an image on the Talk Page."

This is the XM191, the predecessor of the M202A1 FLASH. For some difficult reason I can't attach an image on the Talk Page.

File:Dp-64 1-300x200.jpg

2013-01-16T11:01:35Z

Alkillmatic:

Talk:M202 FLASH

2013-01-16T10:07:17Z

Alkillmatic: /* XM191 */ new section

Category talk:Gun

2013-01-07T16:27:03Z

Alkillmatic: /* New Sub Catergory */

Is there a way to make all the subcategories show up on the first page so that you wouldn't have to click next 200 to see the next 7 (of 9) subcategories? -UW

I agree, I didn't even realise there were more subcategories until I looked at the discussion paged. [[Special:Contributions/193.1.104.2|193.1.104.2]] 18:29, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I think there should be some kind of test or quiz that is available to take if you want to practice identifying different guns from all manufacturers. I think it would be a lot better than having to keep clicking on the back button to compare guns and such.

:I second that, an identification quiz, either on this site or posting a link to one on another, would be a great idea.

I noticed that there wasn't many of the CZ pistols listed, could someone add some more?

==Doing a formatting trick with the Smith & Wesson Entries==
I will be doing a little wiki formatting trick on the Smith & Wesson Revolver pages so that they sort in their model order (by number, not treating the numbers as text as it does now). Currently the model numbers are treated like text (so that 1,11,12 are in order, versus 1,2,3,4... etc). NO ONE UNDO THIS formatting at the bottom of the page. Invariably some guy will look at that, not know what it is for AND REMOVE THE FORMATTING CODE, thus screwing things all up. I'm saying pre-emptively for NO ONE to do that!. Thanks for your attention. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sub-Categories ==

Any chance one of the admins could add this to the main Gun Category page? Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:24, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

'''SUB CATEGORIES'''
{|
|
*[[:Category:Assault Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Battle Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Bullpup]]
*[[:Category:Carbine]]
*[[:Category:Flamethrower]]
*[[:Category:Flare Gun]]
*[[:Category:Fictional Firearm]]
*[[:Category:Grenade]]
|| ||
*[[:Category:Grenade Launcher]]
*[[:Category:Less-Than Lethal]]
*[[:Category:MANPADS]]
*[[:Category:Machine Gun]]
*[[:Category:Machine Pistol]]
*[[:Category:Mine]]
*[[:Category:Missile Launcher]]
*[[:Category:Mortar]]
|| ||
*[[:Category:Pistol]]
*[[:Category:Revolver]]
*[[:Category:Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Shotgun]]
*[[:Category:Sniper Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Submachine Gun]]
*[[:Category:UBGL]]
*[[:Category:Underwater Firearm]]
|-
|}

== New Sub Catergory ==

Is it possible that we can have another Sub Catergory named "Recoilless Rifles". It may be limited having the Carl Gustav M3, AT4, B-10 and a few others. Not sure if it's a good idea or not. --[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 11:27, 7 January 2013 (EST)

Category talk:Gun

2013-01-07T16:19:38Z

Alkillmatic: /* Sub Catergory */

Is there a way to make all the subcategories show up on the first page so that you wouldn't have to click next 200 to see the next 7 (of 9) subcategories? -UW

I agree, I didn't even realise there were more subcategories until I looked at the discussion paged. [[Special:Contributions/193.1.104.2|193.1.104.2]] 18:29, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I think there should be some kind of test or quiz that is available to take if you want to practice identifying different guns from all manufacturers. I think it would be a lot better than having to keep clicking on the back button to compare guns and such.

:I second that, an identification quiz, either on this site or posting a link to one on another, would be a great idea.

I noticed that there wasn't many of the CZ pistols listed, could someone add some more?

==Doing a formatting trick with the Smith & Wesson Entries==
I will be doing a little wiki formatting trick on the Smith & Wesson Revolver pages so that they sort in their model order (by number, not treating the numbers as text as it does now). Currently the model numbers are treated like text (so that 1,11,12 are in order, versus 1,2,3,4... etc). NO ONE UNDO THIS formatting at the bottom of the page. Invariably some guy will look at that, not know what it is for AND REMOVE THE FORMATTING CODE, thus screwing things all up. I'm saying pre-emptively for NO ONE to do that!. Thanks for your attention. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sub-Categories ==

Any chance one of the admins could add this to the main Gun Category page? Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:24, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

'''SUB CATEGORIES'''
{|
|
*[[:Category:Assault Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Battle Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Bullpup]]
*[[:Category:Carbine]]
*[[:Category:Flamethrower]]
*[[:Category:Flare Gun]]
*[[:Category:Fictional Firearm]]
*[[:Category:Grenade]]
|| ||
*[[:Category:Grenade Launcher]]
*[[:Category:Less-Than Lethal]]
*[[:Category:MANPADS]]
*[[:Category:Machine Gun]]
*[[:Category:Machine Pistol]]
*[[:Category:Mine]]
*[[:Category:Missile Launcher]]
*[[:Category:Mortar]]
|| ||
*[[:Category:Pistol]]
*[[:Category:Revolver]]
*[[:Category:Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Shotgun]]
*[[:Category:Sniper Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Submachine Gun]]
*[[:Category:UBGL]]
*[[:Category:Underwater Firearm]]
|-
|}

== New Sub Catergory ==

Is it possible that we can have another Sub Catergory named "Recoilless Rifles". It may be limited having the Carl Gustav M3, AT4, B-10 and a few others. Not sure if it's a good idea or not.

Category talk:Gun

2013-01-07T16:15:17Z

Alkillmatic: /* Sub Catergory */ new section

Is there a way to make all the subcategories show up on the first page so that you wouldn't have to click next 200 to see the next 7 (of 9) subcategories? -UW

I agree, I didn't even realise there were more subcategories until I looked at the discussion paged. [[Special:Contributions/193.1.104.2|193.1.104.2]] 18:29, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I think there should be some kind of test or quiz that is available to take if you want to practice identifying different guns from all manufacturers. I think it would be a lot better than having to keep clicking on the back button to compare guns and such.

:I second that, an identification quiz, either on this site or posting a link to one on another, would be a great idea.

I noticed that there wasn't many of the CZ pistols listed, could someone add some more?

==Doing a formatting trick with the Smith & Wesson Entries==
I will be doing a little wiki formatting trick on the Smith & Wesson Revolver pages so that they sort in their model order (by number, not treating the numbers as text as it does now). Currently the model numbers are treated like text (so that 1,11,12 are in order, versus 1,2,3,4... etc). NO ONE UNDO THIS formatting at the bottom of the page. Invariably some guy will look at that, not know what it is for AND REMOVE THE FORMATTING CODE, thus screwing things all up. I'm saying pre-emptively for NO ONE to do that!. Thanks for your attention. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sub-Categories ==

Any chance one of the admins could add this to the main Gun Category page? Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:24, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

'''SUB CATEGORIES'''
{|
|
*[[:Category:Assault Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Battle Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Bullpup]]
*[[:Category:Carbine]]
*[[:Category:Flamethrower]]
*[[:Category:Flare Gun]]
*[[:Category:Fictional Firearm]]
*[[:Category:Grenade]]
|| ||
*[[:Category:Grenade Launcher]]
*[[:Category:Less-Than Lethal]]
*[[:Category:MANPADS]]
*[[:Category:Machine Gun]]
*[[:Category:Machine Pistol]]
*[[:Category:Mine]]
*[[:Category:Missile Launcher]]
*[[:Category:Mortar]]
|| ||
*[[:Category:Pistol]]
*[[:Category:Revolver]]
*[[:Category:Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Shotgun]]
*[[:Category:Sniper Rifle]]
*[[:Category:Submachine Gun]]
*[[:Category:UBGL]]
*[[:Category:Underwater Firearm]]
|-
|}

== Sub Catergory ==

Is it possible that we can have another Sub Catergory named "Recoilless Rifles". It may be limited having the Carl Gustav M3, AT4, B-10 and a few others. Not sure if it's a good idea or not.

Talk:FIM-92 Stinger

2013-01-07T12:38:26Z

Alkillmatic: /* Other Variants */ new section

Would using this weapon as a conventional rocket launcher work in real life?

*Not really. For a start, from what I can gather you'd need to build a new guidence system if you wanted it to lock on to ground targets. If you just fired the missile regardless, it's pretty thin and doesn't have the biggest warhead in the universe; it'd be a waste of a complicated, expensive weapon to just fire it straight forward. Might as well use a LAW. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 21:18, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

::Not to mention that it has an HE-Frag warhead, so you'd basically have a big, expensive grenade. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:22, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

:::As others have said, it's a proximity explosive warhead designed to take down aircraft. Now in the film [[Navy SEALs]] they used it as a last ditch weapon against an armored vehicle, but I hope people don't start thinking of it as an anti tank weapon. A total waste of a VERY expensive rocket......[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

::::Minor correction: IIRC the Stinger is a "hittile" like Rapier that doesn't use a proximity fuze. He's probably thinking of videogames; Metal Gear Solid is the chief offender, where you have to take down a giant walking tank by firing Stingers at it. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:28, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

== Page rename? ==

Should this be moved to "FIM-92 Stinger", as the FIM-92A is just the first of 5 variants of the missile, with the outward appearance of the launchers being identical. Also, does anyone know what the "M" designation for the launcher itself is, like how the launcher for the [[FIM-43 Redeye]] is the M41A1? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:27, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

== Other Variants ==

Does anyone know the differences of other designated Stinger Variants. Probably for different launch platforms, I'm not sure

FN F2000

2012-12-26T18:08:40Z

Alkillmatic:

'''The Fabrique Nationale F2000 bullpup rifle and variants can be seen in the following films, television series, and video games used by the following actors:'''
__TOC__<br clear=all>

= FN F2000 =
Standard version with integrated 1.6x magnification optics.
[[Image:F2000.jpg‎|thumb|right|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|right|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] - 40mm]]

==Specifications==
(2001 – present)

* '''Type:''' Bullpup Assault Rifle

*'''Country of Origin:''' Belgium

* '''Caliber:''' 5.56×45mm NATO

* '''Weight:''' 7.9 lbs (3.6 kg)

* '''Length:''' 27.1 in (68.8 cm)

* '''Barrel length:''' 16 in (40 cm)

* '''Feed System:''' {{STANAG}}

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto/Full-Auto

-----
=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield: Bad Company]] |||| Available with [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] || 2008
|-
| [[Splinter Cell]] ||SC-20K|| Available with silencer and [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]]|| 2002
|-
| [[Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow]] ||SC-20K|| Available with [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]]|| 2004
|-
| [[Splinter Cell: Double Agent]] ||M-160|| MP only|| 2006
|-
| [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2]] ||SC-20K|| w/variety of accessories || 2007
|-
| [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]] ||FT 200M|| Available with [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] || 2007
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] |||| Available with [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] || 2005
|-
| [[Söldner: Secret Wars]] || |||| 2004
|-
| [[Hitman: Blood Money]] |||||| 2006
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || ||w/ various attachments|| 2008
|-
| [[Counter-Strike Online]] ||F2000|| || 2009
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]] ||F2K|| ||
|-
| [[Tom Clancy's EndWar]] ||E3000 carbine|||| 2008
|-
| [[Project Origin]] ||Type-12 Pulse Weapon||w/ [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] || 2009
|-
| [[Wolfteam]] ||f2000 carbine|||| 2007
|-
| [[The Hidden (VG)|The Hidden]] ||FN2000|||| 2005
|-
|[[Ghost Recon Online]]||?||Available with [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]]||2012
|-
| [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky]] ||FT 200M|| Available with [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] || 2008
|-
|}

=== Anime ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|[[Innocent Venus]]||Japanese Military||Available with [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] ||2006
|-
|[[Toaru Majutsu no Index]] ||MISAKA clones|| Available with [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] ||2009
|-
|[[Golgo 13]] || Savine Brothers || || 2009
|-
|}
<br clear=all>

= FN F2000 Tactical =
[[Image:FN_F2000_tactical.jpg|thumb|right|500px|FN F2000 Tactical with folding vertical foregrip - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
Flat-top version without integrated optics.

==Specifications==
(2001 – present)

* '''Type:''' Bullpup Assault Rifle

* '''Caliber:''' 5.56×45mm NATO

* '''Weight:''' 7.5 lbs (3.39 kg)

* '''Length:''' 27.1 in (68.8 cm)

* '''Barrel length:''' 16 in (40 cm)

* '''Capacity:''' [[STANAG|STANAG Magazines]]

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto/Full-Auto

-----
=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Hitman]]|| || Interpol operative || with EOTech red dot sight || 2007
|-
| [[MR 73]]|| || GIPN officer || || 2008
|-
| [[G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra]]|| [[Channing Tatum]] || Duke || with trijicon tri power dot sight || 2009
|-
| [[G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra]]|| [[Marlon Wayans]] || Ripcord || with trijicon tri power dot sight || 2009
|-
| [[Gamer]]|| Various || Slayers || || 2009
|-
| [[Gamer]]|| [[Zoe Bell]] || Sandra || || 2009
|-
| [[The Expendables]]|| [[Sylvester Stallone]] || Barney Ross || with EOTech red dot sight, flashlight and laser pointer || 2010
|-
| [[The Expendables]]|| [[Jet Li]] || Yin Yang || with EOTech red dot sight, flashlight and laser pointer || 2010
|-
| [[Tekken]]|| ||Guards || with red dot scope || 2010
|-
| [[Iron Man 2]]|| || || Mounted on War Machine || 2010
|-
| [[The Mechanic (2011)|The Mechanic]]|| [[Jason Statham]] || Bishop || With Leupold CQ/T sight || 2011
|-
| [[Lockout]]|| || Police officers || || 2012
|}

=== Television ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Dennis Haysbert]] || Sgt. Major Jonas Blane || [[Unit, The|The Unit]] / Extreme Rendition || Fitted with scope || 2006 - 2009
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory]] ||SC-20K|||| 2005
|-
| [[Splinter Cell: Double Agent]] ||SC-20K|| Available with silencer and [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]]|| 2006
|-
| [[Alliance of Valiant Arms]] || As the "FN-F2000" || With optional ACOG scope || 2007
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || ||w/ various attachments|| 2008
|-
|[[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]]||||w/ M203 grenade launcher, Masterkey underbarrel shotgun, suppressor, red dot sight, 1.6x optical sight, EOtech holographic sight, Trijicon ACOG, thermal sight and/or extended magazine||2009
|-
| [[Splinter Cell: Conviction]] ||"SC3000"||heavily modified|| 2010
|-
| [[MAG]] ||ATAC 2000|| || 2010
|-
| [[Battlefield: Bad Company 2]] |||| w/ [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] and various optics || 2010
|-
| [[Medal of Honor (2010)|Medal of Honor]] ||F2000|| w/ [[FN EGLM|FN GL-1]] and various accessories, MP only || 2010
|-
| [[Battlefield Play4Free]] || As the "F2000" || With railed forend and optional EOTech or Sightmark Sure Shot red dot sight || 2011
|-
|[[SOCOM 4: US Navy SEALs]]||ATAC 2000||||2011
|-
| [[Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance]] |||| w/ ACOG scope and modified foresights || 2012
|-
| [[Ghost Recon: Future Soldier]]||F2000 ||Tactical Handguard, added in Arctic Strike DLC ||2012
|-
| [[Battlefield 3]]||F2000|| w/ various attachments || 2012
|-
|}
<br clear=all>

= FN FS2000 =
[[Image:Fnfs2000_1.jpg|thumb|right|500px|FN FS2000 with tan frame - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Fn fs2000 blk.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Fully black FN FS2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:FN FS2000 RIS.jpg|thumb|right|500px|FN FS2000 CQB - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
Civilian, semi-auto version of FN F2000, available in original or flat-top versions with or without integrated optics. It is different from military F2000 by its longer barrel, no bayonet attachement, and a different flash hider.

==Specifications==
(2006 – present)

* '''Type:''' Bullpup Assault Rifle

* '''Caliber:''' 5.56×45mm NATO

* '''Weight:''' 8 lbs (3.65 kg)

* '''Length:''' 29.3 in (74.4 cm)

* '''Barrel length:''' 17.4 in (44.3 cm)

* '''Capacity:''' [[STANAG|STANAG Magazines]]

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto

-----

=== Film ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Terminator Salvation]]|| || T-600 Terminators || || 2009
|-
|}

=== Television ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| [[Shane West]] || Michael || [[Nikita (2010)|Nikita]] / Coup de Grace || Fitted with C-More sight || 2010-
|-
| [[Taraji P. Henson]] || Detective Carter || [[Person of Interest]] / Flesh and Blood || Green Receiver || Apr. 5 2012
|-
| Gary Shank || || [[Top Shot - Season 4]] / SWAT Throwdown || CQB model || 2012
|-
|}
<br clear=all>

=See Also=
* [[FN Herstal]] - A list of all firearms manufactured by FN Herstal.

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Assault Rifle]]
[[Category:Bullpup]]

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-12-25T09:52:51Z

Alkillmatic: /* BF3 Flaws */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::This M136 guy, Matkovic, is Navy EOD attached to Blackburn's Force Recon unit, which is why he isn't present in all of the missions. Despite the fact that EOD doesn't work this closely with other units, that is the reasoning for his alternate appearance - [[User:Tangero2325|Tangero2325]] 9:55, 18 June 2012 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Just about everything in the military has a designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:10, 10 March 2012 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

Heck, I've got a pair of ammo boxes, and THEY have designations (M19A1). - Wantabs_Warrior38

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - S9771773G 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

More funny stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxsbTjPe2fs&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

More ordinary stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUpUFwV8fM8&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::An LRSR mission with the Barrett like the one in CoD4 would have been awesome to have in BF3. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)
:Holy crap, I thought that was a real Marine in that pic at first! :O [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

To be honest, I only find the first one to be chuckle-worthy. The other two are pretty much meh. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:40, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

When was the screenshot that says "HK53" taken? Shouldn't that be updated with a more recent one that says "G53"? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:46, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

:You have no idea how grateful I am to see this in a neat compilation! Been looking everywhere for just these designs to no avail. -- Long Fallen 02:46, 2 March 2012 (CST)
I think the QBB-95 is a totally made up frankengun. However the core of it is actually an Enfield L85, you can tell by the vent holes on the receiver: 3 horizontal vents at the rear, then a slightly larger gap followed by two slightly smaller vents. Also visible is the raised portion on the bottom edge of the upper receiver which runs horizontally under these vent holes, and the pistol grip and trigger guard seem to match. On top it seems to be a grossly oversized M4/M16A4 detachable carry handle, and the front is anyone's guess. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:56, 2 March 2012 (CST)
::Yeah, I think you're right. It also has the generic bipod most guns in BF3 use, Harris Bipod I think it's called. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::Not important? Any info is very welcome on this site! In fact, I was wondering this myself. -- Long Fallen 02:48, 2 March 2012 (CST)

::Yeah, most definitely. We welcome clarification on any component or add-on used in the game. IMFDB's priorities are much different than those of game-based wikis. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:31, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Do you guys think we should have a section for the attachments in the game, since there are so many? For most games it wouldn't be necessary, but here there are 12 different optics, the aftermarket irons, KAC foregrip, Harris bipod, six (I think) suppressors, PEQ-2, pistol laser sight, and a tac light. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:Yes, please include the info on which flash suppressors and other accessories are being used on which guns in the screenshots (as well as an addendum at the end of the page outlining just which real-life firearm accessories are in the game). There are many of us not in the know who would like to learn about them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:32, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

That Javelin dogtag looks so cool. I can't wait to get to 500 kills with it. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:16, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== 3 Expansions planned for BF3 ==

[http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/07/battlefield-3-close-quarters-announced.aspx 3 Expansions planned for BF3]

Newest expansion has 10 new guns, what are you guys thinking/hoping they will be? I'm hoping for a USP, perhaps another pump action shotgun,maybe a TAR or a Galil, and an XM8 (wishful thinking on that last one, but they put the Jackhammer in, so why not?) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 18:20, 7 March 2012 (CST)

EDIT: Can someone fix that link please? I'm not very good at this clearly.

Me being the AR fanboy that I am, I just want a short barreled AR (10 inches prefferably). cheech98 9:28, 7 March 2012

:HK416. I'd like to see another pump shotty and some pistols at the least. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:49, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Already spoken for; the M416 is the 10" 416.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:16, 8 March 2012 (CST)

Definitely a pump shotgun, maybe an Ithica or a Mossberg with wood furniture (because with black furniture it would look too much like the 870). I would like to see an AK in 7.62x39. I was honestly appalled that BF3 didn't feature a .30 cal AK. An MP5, a Hi-Power, a CZ-75 and a SIG-Sauer would also be nice; a non-tacticool FAL, maybe an FNC (always loved that gun), a Skorpion (come on, who doesn't wanna shoot that thing in a video game), the VZ-58, the HK P7 perhaps? The HK33 would be an awesome weapon to see (although admittedly not too plausible), an Uzi (full size or mini, doesn't really matter to me), a Makarov (still common among the Russian Armed Forces, right?), the P99, and MORE REVOLVERS, DAMMIT. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 02:04, 8 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I think if they added the FAL, it wouldn't be tacticool, seeing as how the G3A3 wasn't. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:32, 11 March 2012 (PST)

:Rumours are circulating that two such weapons in Close Quarters Pack are the CZ-75 Automatic is one such pistol as a competition towards the G18 and 93R and a new sniper rifle, the CZ-750 for the Recon. Also two new vehicles rumored are the UH-60 Blackhawk and M2A2 Bradley IFV. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:07, 9 March 2012 (CST)

::But isn't the CQ Pack gonna take place entirely indoors? I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that the four maps in the next pack are going to feture entirely infantry-based, indoors combat. I guess I could see a helicopter working in there somewhere (thinking of the Airport map's chopper-gunners on MW2, I suppose) but it seems like vehicles would break the tense, room-to-room air they're going for here. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 3:56, 13 March 2012 (EST)

The HK33 is actually in the game already, in the Back to Karkand expansion pack as the 'G53' or something like that. *EDIT* Nevermind, you meant the full size rifle, my mistake...
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

It's gonna be a bunch of CQB guns, no doubt. I'd like to see (Assault Rifles) Tavor TAR-21 and the Masada. (Carbines) AKMs and the AUG A3. (Machine Guns) LSAT and the IMI Negev (Snipers) VSS Vintorez and the DSR-1 (Submachine Guns)MP5 PDW and the Colt R0991 9mm. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 16:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year, I think we are going to have our hands full identifying all them because it ain't just firearms either, they're adding a slew of vehicles with each pack as is the norm with this supposed DLC's. "Close quarters" I think is mostly gonna be all transport vehicles so I suspect, possibly Technicals, Civilian Vehicles, maybe an aerial transport helicopter/plane or light attack scout helicopters, possibly light IFV's too. Weapons are likely to be CQB in nature, I'm hoping for alot of Sub-Machine Gun's and Shotguns, the game needs more Pump Shotguns in my opinion. My general wish-list includes:

* SA58 OSW Battle Rifle and Type 95 Assault Rifle (to round out the Chinese Firepower in BF3, almost the full collection now) for the Assault Kit
* Zastava M92 (Compact AK47 Variant) and the Mark 18 Mod 0 (Ultra compact AR) and possibly the QLZ-87 Automatic Grenade Launcher (as an Anti-Vehicle Weapon, replaces the Rocket Launcher) for the Engineer
* MG3 GPMG and L86A2 (Equivalent to BF3's RPK and M27, gotta have more weapons like those for the Support Kit)
* Mark 12 SPR (American equivalent of the SKS in BF3) and CZ-750 for the Recon
* CZ-75 Auto, H&K MP5, Mossberg 590 Pump Shotgun (if it was a secondary for the Assault I'd be in love with it), TOZ-194, Valtro PM-5, Sawn Off Double Barrel, Benelli M3 Super 90, Smith & Wesson 686, SIG P226, H&K USP, QSZ-92 and FN Five SeveN are just some examples of all kit weapons I'd love to see.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:56, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:If they added the QLZ-87, it would be '''''WAY''''' overpowered. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:28, 12 March 2012 (PST)

:Dunno about the QLZ-87, man. I'd think most Battlefield players are already sick of overpowered, hand-held weapons that can auto-fire frags. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 4:03, 13 March 2012 (EST)

"There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year"<br/>
Thirty weapons in each pack? Are you kidding me? BtK had eight weapons. And how do you know all the packs will have weapons in?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:37, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:Actually, BtK had ten weapons, and he meant at least 30 overall, he just stated it wrong. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 3:28, 9 March 2012 (PST)

They just released a new trailer that shows off some of the weapons in the first expansion pack, I only saw two but there may be more hidden throughout, the ones I saw were the L86A1 and the ACR(I assume it was the ACR, it was however called "ACW-R", I'm seeing a trend with Magpul weapons here with the PDR being renamed the PDW-R. (PS. sorry if I screwed up the formatting, this is my first entry.)
After further searching the complete list seems to be AUG, SPAS-12, ACW-R(ACR), L86A1 LSW, LSAT, MTAR-21, SCAR-L. However some people claim to have spotted the CZ-75 Auto. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 12:38, 13 March 2012 (CET)

:Good catch Spry, I watched the trailer twice carefully and found the same. I'll make it a list so it's easier to see. As with Karkand we should avoid adding anything new to the main page until we have more to add. I'm assuming the same weapon layout as Karkand until I hear something solid about that full auto CZ-75, maybe it has a stock and is a PDW? I'm also assuming what go to what classes, can't really go wrong there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:47, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

*Assault: SCAR-L (misspelled as SCARL-L; I tweeted Demize)
*Assault: AUG (variant unknown)
*Engineer: ACR (as ACW-R, like PDW-R)
*Engineer: MTAR-21
*Support: L86A1
*Support: LSAT
*Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)
*Recon: ???
*All Kit: "M5K" (don't know what it is, described as M5K tactical machine pistol)
*All Kit: SPAS-12

LIST EDITED

::I'm excited to see the AUG and the MTAR, but the ACR and SCAR-L... while I have nothing against them (in fact, I really like them) aren't they a bit... implausible? As for the LSAT... HELL. NO. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:15, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Not sure if this is on the up and up, but people are talking about the Recon weapons being the HK417 and the CZ-750 (these are were supposedly found buried in some code in a leaked beta build), and with both of these weapons having an effective range of about a thousand meters, this seems plausible. However others are claiming there will be no Recon weapons in this expansion, which seems like it would a stupid move on DICE's part. In addition people are saying the ACR will be a carbine with a 25+1 capacity, and that the SCAR-L will be the assault rifle weapon (seems odd to have a the 7.62 variant as a carbine and the 5.56 variant as an assault rifle, but oh well). Others say the second All Kit weapon will be something called an M5K? I'm not sure what that is. Again none of this was shown in the trailer, however some people claim to have seen the CZ-750 in the trailer, but it's such a poor view that it could just as well be the SV-98. Also, BF3 fans work fast, someone made these mock ups of the stats screens for the guns: http://imgur.com/a/iOlAQ [[User:Spry|Spry]] 03:08, 14 March 2012 (CET)

::::After thinking about it a bit, I'm starting to think the M5K is meant to be the MP5K, when you consider that they've renamed a couple of H&K weapons like the HK53 and the HK416, it's plausible that they had some licensing issues with H&K like they seem to have had with Magpul and Glock (No surprise there, considering how notoriously protective Glock is of their brand), So they probably just renamed it the M5K. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 10:29, 14 March 2012 (CET)
:::::Either that, or they misspelled it, like they did the SCAR-L. And if the MP5 doesn't have H&K's name in its name, they probably wouldn't have to rename it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:18, 14 March 2012 (PST)
::::::You also have to take into account that some of the weapons used by said classes in the trailer could just be kits they picked up in the middle of the battle, perhaps to throw off the assertion of which one belongs to who. I'm just glad the L86A1 is in there, finally another British weapon added, just add a Browning Hi-Power or a SIG P226 and I'm set! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:38, 14 March 2012 (CDT)Draco122

An M203A2 would be a nice addition, since the Marines don't use the M320. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:12, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

I thought this belonged here, since we're on the subject of expansions, here's a HUGE list of updates in this upcoming patch.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/#!/bf3/news/view/2832654779195992365/ [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 01:56, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

"Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)" TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:59, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

Does anyone know of any new info on the weapons in the expansion? I still have no idea of what the 2nd recon weapon is (Is recon even getting 2 weapons?). Now I'm hearing the TAR is going to be all-kit? I'm clearly confused. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== L96 Irons?! ==

What in the holy hell is that garbage?! finally a rifle with good iron sights and the stick a SECOND front sight on the end of the receiver rail... for a whopping 7" sight radius... dear god what a disappointment. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]]
:As a side note, that isn't an L96 front sight, looks more like the one that is on the G22 (German variant of the AWM). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:39, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
::Hahaha, that was my reaction too. The sights will be fixed in that big patch that should be out this month. It was on that huge notes list. EDIT: I think the BF3 rifle IS the G22; folding stock & front sight. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/G22_ohne_Schalldaempfer.jpg here][[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:55, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:AI AW G22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|G22 - .300 Winchester Magnum]]

: question on the L96, what is it chambered in? It should be .300 Winchester Magnum (I think?) but the ingame description says 7.62mmx51mm NATO... [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 00:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
::The standard Arctic Warfare is chambered in either .243 Winchester or 7.62x51mm NATO. However, the in game gun is modelled on a magnum rifle (can tell by the size of the magazine) which is chambered in .300 Winchester of .338 Lapua. The caliber is correct for the name of the gun, but wrong for the model it actually is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:00, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
:Keep in mind most of the calibres are wrong for the Back To Karkand guns, like the QBs being 5.45mm [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:40, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Shortcuts ==

I was on the 360 Marketplace this week, looking for new Add-ons for any of my games when I came across several for Battlefield 3. They are class specific and cost 560 Microsoft points apiece or you can get the ultimate bundle which includes Air, Ground and Co-Op 'shortcuts' for a whopping 3200 points. What a shortcut entails is basically a free pass to getting ALL of the specific kits weapons, attachments and gadgets thereby bypassing the experience system if someone has the credits.

In short, this is a noob's wetdream. Personally, I think they should rename the Ultimate Shortcut Bundle to the Ultimate Lazy Bastards Bundle. Thankfully all of the shortcuts have been getting pretty low reviews. Thoughts? --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 16:28, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

:Wait, it includes weapon attachments? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:24, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Every other game is dumbed down for casual gamers to blow through in an hour. Why is this any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Shortcuts are gay. 'nuff said. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 17:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm not too happy about shortcuts either, but did you really have to use gay as a way to insult it? [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42
:Sorry, I forgot gay means "happy" --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:27, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

== SPAS-12 = Pump-Action? ==

I was watching the part of the Close-Quarters Expansion Pack trailer where it showed the SPAS-12, and it looked like it was operating in pump-action mode. Is anyone else disappointed by this? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

I'm actually quite glad, I was quite disappointed with the lack of pump-action shotguns in game. I guess they could say it's an SAS-12 so it's a pump-action only variant in real life. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42

I don't really care, I want more pump actions, but another tube fed semi action shotty too. --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:40, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

:Same here, it's not technically wrong, and since we need at least one more pump shotgun, I'm fine with it. I also think they went with the SPAS-12 because most pump shotguns like 870s, Mossbergs, Ithicas, etc, looks very similar. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:20, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

::True, but they could have done the Tactical version of the Benelli Nova or SuperNova. They look unique enough. Or they could have done the Kel-Tec KSG, except without continuous fire of its two magazines (I'm looking at you, MW3).

What's wrong with a pump shotgun with 12 shots (*EDITED* the Kel-tec KSG)? The street sweeper (DAO-12) has 12 shots AND is semi-auto, then there's the USAS-12 with 10+1 and FULL-auto, a pump action with 12 or 12+1 capicity wounldn't be much of a big deal. - Wantabe_Warrior38

:You think the SPAS-12 has 12 shots? It only has an 8-round magazine. *EDITED* No, when I said "continuous fire", I meant in MW3, you continually fire as if it automatically switched its magazines, instead of actually having to manually switch it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

::Pretty sure he meant the KSG. And yeah, the SuperNova looks pretty sweet, I like the trigger guard :) EDIT: Are there any pump-action mag-fed shotguns? I can't think of any, but that'd be pretty cool, like the M1014 and Saiga-12K. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:30, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
:::There are conversion kits to convert popular pump guns to magazine fed, but they look odd with the magazine being further forward than normal, under the existing magazine tube. There are pump actions that are made with box magazines like the [[Valtro PM5 Shotgun]] series, or the [[Hawk shotgun series]]. There is also the [[Franchi SPAS-15]] which is semi/pump like the SPAS-12. I have also seen Saigas that have been converted to pump action. These are just off the top of my head, there are probably other, more obscure weapons out there. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:47, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

== KH2002 Magazine ==

Is it using the 20 round stanag magazine? Looks like it. If it is, ill mention it on the kh2002 portion of the page
EoghanG93 22-4-12

The in game magazine capacity is 30. So I doubt it would be, someone would've picked up on that mistake by now. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 01:24, 27 April 2012 (CET)

== RPK Mag ==
So, it seems someone screwed up during the development of the patch and now the RPK has an extended mag option that gives it 199+1 rounds :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 11 April 2012 (CDT)
:I think it was a DICE only attachment pre-patch --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 20:02, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

:Doubtful, the MG36 and the QBB are mysteriously missing their "extended mag" attachments, leading to the unfortunate scene of a perpetually capped off Beta C-Mag. :S -- Long Fallen 02:02, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

:The QBB is only supposed to have 75, so that was good, I think they just forgot to up the default capacity of the MG36 when they removed the attachements. Also, those two also got a heavy barrel option, and the AS Val got a 30 round mag option. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:15, 17 April 2012 (CDT)

:After June patch, RPK Ext. magazine is gone. However, they introduced Ext. Magazine for M27 IAR, and MG36 is still missing extended magazine and it's limited to fire only 51 rounds.....Nice job DICE! [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] 11:52, 13 June 2012 (PST)

::LOL! Baby steps... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:10, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

== Donya Fortress Trailer ==

See this for the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LipJK6nxEw&feature=g-u-u

Weapons seen (Confirmed):
*MTAR-21
*SPAS-12 (fired in pump action)
*AUGA3
*ACR (Called ACW-R)
*JNG-90
*L86 (Seen at 1:14)

Weapons seen (Unconfirmed):
*LSAT Machine Gun (Used by Engineer at 0:29 and seen in killfeed)
*Unknown compact AK variant (Seen at 1:11, carried by Engineer, looks different from AKS-74U)
*Unknown long barrelled Revolver (Also seen at 1:11, carried by a Support)

Thats all I can spot [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

M417 appears in the Killfeed. [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/File:M417.jpg Sauce.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:32, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:I'm betting it's the semi-auto sniper for the recon kit [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:49, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::The fact it's seen being used by a Recon kit at around 1:05 with an EoTech and a suppressor lends credence to the idea.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:54, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:::Looks like a standard 74U to me, but that pistol doesn't really look like anything. I found the MP5K, it's at 0:50. As far as I can tell this just confirms the SPAS-12 is pump, the MP5K is the SMG, and the other sniper is the JNG-90, which I'd never heard of before. Also, they updated the "AUG" to "AUG A3" since the last trailer :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:45, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::::Yeah, I'm pretty content with the weapons selection now that we've pretty much seen all of them. I'm kind of hoping that the SPAS-12 is both pump-action and semi-auto, though.
:::::From the press release: ''•Earn 10 new weapons and bring them back to the base game including: 1.AUG Assault Rifle, 2.SCAR Assault Rifle, 3.ACW-R Carbine, 4.MTAR-21 Carbine, 5.M417 Sniper Rifle, 6.JNG-90 Sniper Rifle, 7.L86LSW Machine Gun, 8.LSAT Machine Gun, 9.M5K Tactical Machine Pistol, 10.PAS-12 Shotgun'' [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 06:18, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

:Good, the SCAR-L is an AR and the ACR is a carbine, that's what I was hoping for, and the only thing we didn't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:29, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== SIG SG 553 ==

Do you ever see the charging handle of the SG 553, as I'm wondering whether it is genuinely an SG 553 or a mislabelled SG 552 (charging handle is the only deffinite difference). The gun picture is actually a mislabelled SG 552. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:20, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
:You can look at the right side of weapons in-game by putting them on a bipod and rotating them. What exactly is the definitive difference between the 552 and 533, other than the RIS? --[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 19:07, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

== MP7A1 ==

No matter how many times I look at, or just think of, the MP7 rounds ''this'' big I have hilarity induced seizures. Thanks for the unending joy, but I am suing you for giving me epilepsy. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 11:35, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

...what?
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 01:13, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

One of the screen shots for the MP7 shows the reload animation without a magazine, so the animation looks like the player is gesturing how big the bullets would be.--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 01:26, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

:It's pretty funny, as are a lot of the other ones. Whoever does those captions, I don't know if it's everyone or one really funny person, but thank you :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:52, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

== Missing Screenshots ==

So I noticed we're still missing a in game screenshots of some of the BtK weapons. I loaded up fraps and snapped a few of the ones I have unlocked. I'm missing the QBU-88 QBZ-95B the L96 and the MK3A1, but I have a few good shots of the rest. Screwed up catching images of some of the charging animations though. Also, the charging animation on the L85 looks like it's just smacking the cheek rest. Photo album is here: [http://imgur.com/a/j38Rv] I'll let someone more senior that me decide which photos to add, it's been a while since I edited a wiki. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:29, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
:That is correct for an L85, there is a bolt release catch underneath the cheek rest on the left side of the gun. When you empty a magazine the bolt will lock back, so you just need to change the magazine and push the catch up to chamber the first round. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:11, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks for that Commando, info on the L85 seems hard to find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:56, 30 April 2012 (CDT)

== PP-19 ==

Since the patch hsa changed the PP-19to be chambered in the 9x18mm Makarov, would it be at all possible to have the screenshot of the loadout screen to represent the change? It currently shows it pre-patch where its still in the 9x19mm Parabellum. I'd do it myself but I only have it for 360 and I don't know how. Thanks. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:58, 13 May 2012 (CDT)

== How do we know the M1911 in this game is an M-45 MEU(SOC)? ==

The real life picture provided shows the pistol with U.S. Army markings. How do we know the in-game M1911 is actually an MEUSOC?

:"It is a standard M1911A1 with a three-hole trigger, a Springfield slide, commander-style hammer, beavertail grip safety, Pachmayr rubber grips, and uses 8 round magazines." That's an exact match to the 1st-gen MEUSOC pisotls. As for why it has army markings, it was probably built on a standard Army M1911A1, but I don't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:57, 16 May 2012 (CDT)

== Close Quarters Weapons ==

So I bought Premium, and I've unlocked a few of the guns. Uploaded some screens, and I'm gonna start adding them into the page.

I have the SCAR-L, AUG-A3, ACR, HK417, SPAS-12, L86A2. I can't unlock the MP5K or the JNG-90 until the maps are unlocked on PC, but I'll add the LSAT and MTAR-21 screens when I unlock them. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:05, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

Added missing screens of the L85A2, MG36, QBB-95, LSAT, MTAR-21. Still have the QBU-88 sniper rifle and the L96/G22 to add. Too tired to add them now. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:21, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

== CQ Weapons Comments ==

I was disappointed to see the ACR in the carbine kit although it's the full length version with a fixed stock. I was hoping they'd put the SCAR-L in the carbine kit instead, as the SCAR-H already is there.
I Also liked if the HK417 was in the assault kit also as a Battle rifle. THe G3A3 is the only battle rifle in the Assault kit.
Instead of the HK417 being in recon they could have put in a modernized Saiga 308 or the Mk12 SPR.
Apart from that I rather do like the DLC and the weapons. [[User:EoghanG93|EoghanG93]] 10:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)
:I think they put the SCAR-L in the Assault kit because they needed to do a little balancing with the SCAR-H and -L. If the lower-powered one was the one with the shorter barrel, and therefore range, the higher-powered one would be chosen, whether it was in the same kit or not, because of its higher power and range. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:25, 9 June 2012 (PST)

The ACR is apparently using the 6.5 Grendel round, if the Battlelog weapon profile is anything to go by. -- Long Fallen 15:53, 8 June 2012 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's probably why it has a 26-round magazine instead of a 30-rounder. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:34, 9 June 2012 (PST)
::The damage of this gun is actually a lot different from other engineer guns. Unlike M4/AKS-74U and etc, it does less damage in close range, but it does more damage than other carbines. Is that an accrate representation of 6.5 Grendel round?? [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] 11:40, 13 June 2012 (PST)

== L86= A1 or A2? ==

On the page, it says that the L86 in-game is an A1, mislabeled as an A2. However, if that was because of the charging handle, I've heard of L85A1's and L86A1's upgraded in the field to A2 retaining their old A1 charging handle. Is there anything else that differentiates the L86A1 and A2? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:21, 9 June 2012 (PST)
:"upgraded in the field"
:You can do that? Last time I checked most of the A2 upgrades were armourer / factory level changes that can't be done by the average squaddie in the field. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:58, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::That's what I heard, maybe a gunsmith in the field upgraded it for the rest of the people in his squad/platoon/other organisation level in the military. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:59, 10 June 2012 (PST)

The L86 has the same charging handle as the L85 in game, if that makes a difference. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 06:04, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

Looks like it's missing the guard around the magazine catch that was added to the A2. Also, I don't know what the hell is going on [[:File:Bf3_l86a2_bolt.jpg|here.]] It's not "slapping the bolt catch" because A. The SA80 bolt release is on the other side of the weapon, and B. you can't slap it anyway. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:48, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
:That is "slapping the bolt catch", as there is a bolt release catch on the left side of the weapon just above the fire selector (where he is slapping). On SA80 weapons there is a catch on the right side behind the ejection port which you use to hold the bolt open, but there is a separate release catch on the left side. If you empty a magazine and the bolt locks back, to reload the weapon you just have the change the magazine and press the catch up to release the bolt and chamber the first round. You are correct that it doesn't have the shield around the mag release indicating that it is based on an A1 (or an inaccurate airsoft A2). Also, there were no field upgraded A2 weapons, the upgrade was carried out in a factory by H&K. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:34, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::Ah, than I guess it is an A1. Thanks, Commando. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 2:00, 10 June 2012 (PST)
:::So it's an A1 with an A2 charging handle? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:29, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Does anyone have a shot where you see the charging handle, as there are none on the main page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:00, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Edit: I just searched on youtube for some vids of it and it is very hard to see the charging handle clearly, but it is visible when you vault over things and it appears to be a standard round A1 handle rather than the comma shaped A2 handle. In fact now that I'm thinking about it, the A2 flash hider pokes upwards higher than the top of the receiver, so if it was an A2 handle you should be able to see it from the regular view anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

::::: The L86 is an A1, I think? The charging handle is straight, and not the crescent/comma shaped one from the L85A2. You can see it clearly here. [[File:l86 a1 charge handle.jpg|400px|thumb|none]] [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 17:38, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
That confirms it then, just a straight L86A1. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

I'm glad that DICE seems to at least understand the difference between the A1 and A2, because the L86 in the trailer was called L86A1, and they might have changed it to A2 to rid it of the horrid reputation of the A1. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:08, 10 June 2012 (PST)

== Armoured Kill ==

New info out! Can anyone help on IDs? The AC-130 is obvious, and the Quad appears to be the BC2 one. There's a pair of Mobile Artillery, and a pair of "Tank Destroyers". I'm not that good with vehicles, but I see a tank that looks like a T-52? T-72? Something Soviet. Also, what looks like a Stryker with a huge cannon. US Mobile Artillery? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:35, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/823-ac-130-not-driveable/

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/826-battlefield-3-dlc-armored-kill-g4tv/

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/822-ac-130-plus-bandar-desert-screens/

:I think the Styker is the M1128 Mobile Gun system (unless there's another Stryker which carries a big gun), so I think that would make it one of the 'tank destroyers'. I don't think the tank is a T-72, the hull doesn't look right. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

The Russian vehicle looks like a 2S25 Sprut airborne tank destroyer. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fan]] 10:45, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

::I believe you're both right. I looked up the Sprut, it's basically a BMD-3 with a tank cannon, which matches the Stryker nicely. That gives us our two tank destroyers, so we have yet to see either mobile artillery vehicles yet. EDIT: BF Wiki says that's right, and that the MA are the M142 HIMARS and the BM-21 Grad. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:19, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

There was a teaser video for the Battlefield 3 premium release that showed the wire outlines for the Grad and the HIMAR but no action video unless you count the Grads in the Single player mission called "Thunder run" I think. Also the box art for the armoured kill expansion shows a H-60 Blackhawk so that might be included as well. -[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

:Nah, the Blackhawk's just on the box art again. Premium confirms we know everything, 20 guns, 10 vehicles. 10 guns in Karkand and 10 in CQB. Three vehicles in Karkand, six in Armoured Kill, plus the motorcycle in End Game. That's everything. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:22, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:: Wait, so we're not getting any new weapons in Armored Kill? I thought DICE said we were getting 10 new guns in each expansion? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 12:31, 16 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Well, there's rumoured Mk 14, but as far as I know, no. They said 20 guns, that's 10 in Karkand, 10 in CQ. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

::That explains it, when I saw the 10 vehicles I forgot about the ones from Karkand and thought 10 new vehicles. I thought it was seemed out of place for an Army Blackhawk when the Marine UH-1Y is already in the game. That bugged me in BF2. [[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

== ACR in 6.5mm Grendel? ==

Hi, I just wonder that the expected caliber for the ACR is 6.5*39mm Grendel. Can please somebody explain this exception to me?

U used to expect 6.8*43mm SPC, because of the capacity of 26 Bullets in the STANAG Shaped Magazine.

The usual STANAG Shape Capacity of the 6.8 SPC is around 25 and the 6.8mm SPC base diameter in 10,72 cm. The Grendels base diameter in 11,15, so I expect a lightly smaller Mag Capacity.

And isn't it more explicable that Remingtron delivers his own weapons in its own caliber first?

By the way, this is not a fixed opinion but more like a thought, that we might say that the 6,8 SPC is a possible caliber to. [[User:RRT877|RRT(//]] 10:52, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:Copied directly from Battlelog- ''This adaptive combat rifle features a number of recent rifle designs and acts as a lightweight, feature heavy, rifle platform. '''Using the modern, recoil-reducing “Grendel” round,''' as well as being built to endure rough weather conditions and capable of utilizing standard STANAG magazines, this rifle is equipped to fill many of the roles required by both military and law enforcement uses.'' However, the ammunition specs say ''30 rounds [5.56x45mm NATO]''.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:16, 18 June 2012 (CDT)
::Well, the "ACR 6.8" in MW3 also had a 30-round capacity and it was using PMags. Developers don't really care about stuff like this being real. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:38, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:::Infinity Ward, sure, but DICE puts way more effort into making their games realistic.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:37, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

I have the ACR unlocked, and the mag curve definitely isn't 5.56x45. If you guys want I can grab a screenshot of it to clear it up? [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 17:08, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

I'm thinking that DICE originally intended to make it in 5.56, but changed the model to 6.8 and forgot to update the Battlelog specs.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:37, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:Well regardless of their first intention, I say we go off the magazine curve. Which is here[http://i.imgur.com/7zNVl.jpg] [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:10, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

::I wasn't suggesting that we should go off of their first intention, but rather trying to figure out why Battlelog is so drastically different from the in-game model (which is clearly a 6.8)--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:30, 18 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I don't think they pay as much attention to battelog. The QBZ-95B and QBU-88 were both listed as the wrong caliber, and the assignment images are all over the place. According to it's Assignment image, the Mk3A1 is chamber in .223 remington. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:33, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

Thank to you for clearing this. So Our Point is:

Model: 6,8 SPC
Battlelog: 5,56mm / 6,5 Grendel
Stats: 6,5 Grendel

Would you sight this? [[User:RRT877|RRT877]] 11:29, 19 June 2012 (CDT)

== Two questions ==

1. Do all of these bullpup weapons actually have bolt releases? I guess other games like Rainbow Six have kinda drilled me on using the charging handle on weapons like the AUG and SA80
2. Is it technically incorrect for Marines to be using 240B's? I've read a few articles, as well as seen pictures of Marines with 240's equipped with the rails and heat shields characteristic of a 240 Bravo.

:I don't know about the AUG, info on the L85 is hard to come by, but from what I've found it does have a bolt catch. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:44, 18 June 2012 (CDT)
As there is a bit of confusiong and lack of information out there, I'll give a little run down on the controls.
[[File:Sa80-l85a2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
The bolt handle is obvious, being the curved piece of dark plastic at the front of the bolt. The large green piece of plastic behind this is a dust cover that opens when the bolt moves back (it doesn't close when the bolt goes forward again, it has to be manually closed). Behind and below the dust cover is a small green plastic catch which is the bolt hold-open catch. The way that you are meant to use the hold open catch is to reach over the top of the weapon with your left hand, pull the bolt back with the side of your index finger, and when the bolt is fully retracted you push down on the catch with your thumb. It isn't really visible in this shot, but the safety is a cross-bolt above the trigger.
[[File:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
This isn't a great pic of the left side but it is the only one on here. The fire selector is at the bottom of the weapon, half way between the magazine and the butt pad. The lower position is "A" for automatic and the upper is "R" for repetition (semi-automatic). Just above and forward of this there is a square catch just below the cheek rest. This is the bolt release, and when the bolt is held back you pull it down to release the bolt. Not sure if just slapping it on the side would actually work, but in essence the reload animation is correct. However, just realised that the model for the L85A2 is missing the fence around the magazine relese. My guess is that they reused the receiver model from the L86A1 and just put the correct charging handle on it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:45, 19 June 2012 (CDT)

:Ah, you push it down, okay :) Thanks for the info [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:25, 19 June 2012 (CDT)

== m-tar 21 ==

Does anyone know how the m-tar mounts accessories? The front grip doesn't appear to have any rails

:If you look at the picture in Battlelog, you can see that there are rails on the in-game model. This is not inaccurate, as rails can be mounted.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:00, 26 June 2012 (CDT)

== Correct Dragunov SVD? ==

I recently got the Mastery dogtag for the SVD and I think It's the correct version and not the NDM-86?

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/Finncq/dogtags/245528281/ps3/

--[[User:Kona|Kona]] 10:38, 22 July 2012 (CDT)

:Looks like it is the proper one. A number of the Mastery dog tags do that, the MG36 comes to mind. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:38, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

== Mk. 14??? ==

I was reading the page, and I saw Mk. 14 Mod 0 in the Assault Rifles & Battle Rifles category. Now, naturally, I was confused, because there was no confirmed Mk. 14 in any footage of anything about the game. Then, I clicked it and was taken to its space on the page, and it said it was seen in Armored Kill gameplay in the hands of the Engineer class. First off, even if the the Mk. 14 was in the game, it wouldn't a carbine, so it was probably picked up by the Engineer. Second, DICE previously confirmed that '''there would be no new weapons in Armored Kill'''. So, that wasn't a Mk. 14, that was an M39 picked up by an Engineer. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 00:16, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

The M39 is rumored to be an all-kit weapon in Armored Kill. If they do that, I think the G3A3 should become all-kit, too, kinda like Bad Company. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 09:20, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

The M39 is a marksman rifle. It belongs in the Recon class. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 11:08, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

Let's just take it off the page. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 11:58, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

:I agree it shouldn't be on the main page yet. It was seen in video of Armoured Kill gameplay in the hands of an Engineer, as he switched to and RPG in the footage. The ammo count was 20 +1 and, though I don't remember, it may have been firing full auto. That's all we know right now. I've also heard rumours that they may add the M107 into MP, though those are compelete rumours, so don't get your hopes up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:48, 31 July 2012 (CDT)
::Could you post the link to said video? --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 11:24, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

:::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wapDDxuvhCg Here]. At 0:40, 1:10, & 1:22. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:14, 1 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Interesting...--[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 15:59, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::Guys, apparently, the full-auto Mk. 14 being used by an Engineer was probably just a DICE-exclusive weapon. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 21:20, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

:::::Can anyone confirm that it was indeed a Mk 14? If it's in the game in any fashion, it should be on the page. Whether it's DICE-exclusive or publicly-usable is irrelevant. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:35, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

::::::No new info, sadly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:51, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== Could we remove info added pre release ==

Some of the weapons have info added pre release such as the Franchi SPAS-12 as the page says it is one of the 10 guns in the UPCOMING close quarters expansion pack and plenty of others have remnants of info added pre release.--[[User:Xtremegianca|Xtremegianca]] 21:32, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

== EA/DICE "Silently" Removing DLC weapons ==

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/electronic-arts-removes-content-from-battlefield-3s-aftermath-and-end-game-dlc/

Just came across this tid-bit of information regarding Aftermath and Endgame DLC's about EA removing content from Aftermath and End Game despite the fact that previous advertising marked that an additional 10 new weapons would be provided but I'm getting mixed thoughts about this all and wanted peoples views? I personally think it's bogus, what with the new Aftermath Trailer showcasing a Crossbow as a new weapon but I've heard nothing concrete and was wondering if anyone had any idea if this is confirmed or not? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 19:22, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:The DLC hasn't been released yet, so they're allowed to add or remove anything they want from it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:30, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

::These two DLCs never said anything about new weapons, there were always going to be 20, and the article even admits that :/ As for the bullet points on the pictures, there's only room for four things, so they most likely decided marketing the new gamemode was better than marketing the crossbow. It's made from an HK417, by the way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:50, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

:::Actually, it's not. It's a real-life crossbow upper receiver for AR-15 platform lowers. It's called the [http://pse-archery.com/products/productdetail/part_number=01135/445.5.1.1.87663.1003538.0.0.0 PSE TAC 15]. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 19:50, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

::::Actually, Alex, the DLC originally did have new weapons, here is the original BF Premium ad, [http://bf3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/battlefield-premium.jpg here]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 21:03, 30 October 2012 (EDT)
:::::You'll need to upload the actual image elsewhere. The blog doesn't let you link to it --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 23:47, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

I can't upload it, I'm on an IPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 00:40, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

== "XBOW" ==

[[File:BF3-Xbow-Render.jpg|thumb|250px]]The new Aftermath DLC is adding something called the "XBoW". Now before you say that's the PSE TAC 15, it's not. The in game render makes it pretty clear it's a homemade crossbow, and according to its description and appearance, it's built from a salvaged HK417. I've included the image for reference. Now I'm not sure what the policy is on this, but do we add this under the HK417 because it's the base for the weapon? [[User:OmgHAX!|OmgHAX!]] ([[User talk:OmgHAX!|talk]]) 20:16, 3 November 2012 (EDT)
:I was wondering about this too. Maybe make it an extra on the bottom of the main page? I think it should probably be present on the page, as after all, it does inlvove a firearm in one way or another. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:05, 26 November 2012 (EST)
::In general the Rambo Exemption applies to bows which fire explosive arrows, and otherwise it's ok to mention a bow for trivia, completeness, or if the precise make and model is known. The rule mainly exists to stop pages ending up full of "unknown bow" entries that nobody will ever fill in, and / or someone using "you allowed it there!" to make a page for something like ''Lord of the Rings''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:16, 26 November 2012 (EST)
:::Makes sense. Should this crossbow be added then? As it does fire explosive arrows, and it is made from a HK416/417. I think that's enough so it isn't one of those random, useless "Bow" entries. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:05, 26 November 2012 (EST)
::::I see no problem adding it, personally I'd put it under "Other weapons" at the very bottom with the heading as '"Xbow" (Converted HK417)' [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:53, 27 November 2012 (EST)
:::::I'll grab a few shots of the XBOW when I get my graphics card back. I'll dig up some of the pre-release info too, which talked about how the XBOW was made out of car parts. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:54, 12 December 2012 (EST)
Here's the Battlefield Wikia page on the XBOW. http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/XBOW
Apparently it is based on the HK 417 and fires four different kind of bolts: Standard, HE (Which does less damage than an RPG), Scan (Which scans a 10m area for enemies, the bolt itself does the same amount of damage as a single 5.56 round.) and the Balanced (Which has longer range but does less damage.) --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 17:09, 9 December 2012 (EST)

== Operation Guillotine ==

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a clue as to why the game developers gave the US Marines H&K UMPs on this level? The Marines in your squad and the rest of Misfit during the human wave charge down Mount Ridiculous are armed with M16s, but once you hop the wall every Marine has a UMP. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand no Marine is issued an M16A3, but UMPs? I don't think even MARSOC nor Marine Security Something Or Another is armed with UMPs. Just a thought.
[[User:Miyazawa|Miyazawa]] ([[User talk:Miyazawa|talk]]) 19:00, 30 November 2012 (EST)Miyazawa

It's a game and DICE wanted to give the Marines some UMPs. Of course someone's gonna come along and say "it's 2014, maybe the USMC adopted the UMP between 2011 and 2014." Just stop over thinking it. --[[User:CommanderLukas|Commander Lukas]] ([[User talk:CommanderLukas|talk]]) 16:53, 12 December 2012 (EST)

== QLZ-87 Auto GL in Aftermath + HMMWV Mk.19 ==

So, the Aftermath DLC has brought back the Chinese rotary GL from previous game on the Barsuk (modified Vodnik) and the US Hummvee equivalent sports a Mk.19 w/o any feeding system, oddly. -AgentGumby
:Don't you know? The Army and Heckler & Koch are close to finishing their new joint project, the XM901 IBB, or ''Invisible Belt Box''. It has several key improvements over existing, visible belt boxes, such as being invisible (meaning your remaining ammo will float in mid-air and be visible to all of your enemies), it's 25 lbs heavier, %50 more expensive, and it's also %70 more complicated to attach to the weapon system. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:52, 13 December 2012 (EST)
::Oh, sorry, typo. I meant to say ''%250 more expensive''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:55, 13 December 2012 (EST)
:H&K. Because you suck. And we hate you. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 00:04, 25 December 2012 (EST)

== BF3 Flaws ==

I have posted some flaws I face sometimes in BF3 on the Forum. And a wish list which would make the game better. http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2108 --[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 10:58, 24 December 2012 (EST)

Sorry, but unless you have something constructive on the topics of firearms, there isn't need to post this here. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:24, 24 December 2012 (EST)

Sorry about that. It refers to how some parts are unreal, such as the RPG-7 being slow and the incorrect "PG-VL 85mm" --[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 04:52, 25 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-12-24T15:58:35Z

Alkillmatic: /* BF3 Flaws */ new section

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::This M136 guy, Matkovic, is Navy EOD attached to Blackburn's Force Recon unit, which is why he isn't present in all of the missions. Despite the fact that EOD doesn't work this closely with other units, that is the reasoning for his alternate appearance - [[User:Tangero2325|Tangero2325]] 9:55, 18 June 2012 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Just about everything in the military has a designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:10, 10 March 2012 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

Heck, I've got a pair of ammo boxes, and THEY have designations (M19A1). - Wantabs_Warrior38

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - S9771773G 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

More funny stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxsbTjPe2fs&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

More ordinary stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUpUFwV8fM8&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::An LRSR mission with the Barrett like the one in CoD4 would have been awesome to have in BF3. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)
:Holy crap, I thought that was a real Marine in that pic at first! :O [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

To be honest, I only find the first one to be chuckle-worthy. The other two are pretty much meh. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:40, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

When was the screenshot that says "HK53" taken? Shouldn't that be updated with a more recent one that says "G53"? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:46, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

:You have no idea how grateful I am to see this in a neat compilation! Been looking everywhere for just these designs to no avail. -- Long Fallen 02:46, 2 March 2012 (CST)
I think the QBB-95 is a totally made up frankengun. However the core of it is actually an Enfield L85, you can tell by the vent holes on the receiver: 3 horizontal vents at the rear, then a slightly larger gap followed by two slightly smaller vents. Also visible is the raised portion on the bottom edge of the upper receiver which runs horizontally under these vent holes, and the pistol grip and trigger guard seem to match. On top it seems to be a grossly oversized M4/M16A4 detachable carry handle, and the front is anyone's guess. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:56, 2 March 2012 (CST)
::Yeah, I think you're right. It also has the generic bipod most guns in BF3 use, Harris Bipod I think it's called. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::Not important? Any info is very welcome on this site! In fact, I was wondering this myself. -- Long Fallen 02:48, 2 March 2012 (CST)

::Yeah, most definitely. We welcome clarification on any component or add-on used in the game. IMFDB's priorities are much different than those of game-based wikis. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:31, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Do you guys think we should have a section for the attachments in the game, since there are so many? For most games it wouldn't be necessary, but here there are 12 different optics, the aftermarket irons, KAC foregrip, Harris bipod, six (I think) suppressors, PEQ-2, pistol laser sight, and a tac light. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:Yes, please include the info on which flash suppressors and other accessories are being used on which guns in the screenshots (as well as an addendum at the end of the page outlining just which real-life firearm accessories are in the game). There are many of us not in the know who would like to learn about them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:32, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

That Javelin dogtag looks so cool. I can't wait to get to 500 kills with it. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:16, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== 3 Expansions planned for BF3 ==

[http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/07/battlefield-3-close-quarters-announced.aspx 3 Expansions planned for BF3]

Newest expansion has 10 new guns, what are you guys thinking/hoping they will be? I'm hoping for a USP, perhaps another pump action shotgun,maybe a TAR or a Galil, and an XM8 (wishful thinking on that last one, but they put the Jackhammer in, so why not?) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 18:20, 7 March 2012 (CST)

EDIT: Can someone fix that link please? I'm not very good at this clearly.

Me being the AR fanboy that I am, I just want a short barreled AR (10 inches prefferably). cheech98 9:28, 7 March 2012

:HK416. I'd like to see another pump shotty and some pistols at the least. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:49, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Already spoken for; the M416 is the 10" 416.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:16, 8 March 2012 (CST)

Definitely a pump shotgun, maybe an Ithica or a Mossberg with wood furniture (because with black furniture it would look too much like the 870). I would like to see an AK in 7.62x39. I was honestly appalled that BF3 didn't feature a .30 cal AK. An MP5, a Hi-Power, a CZ-75 and a SIG-Sauer would also be nice; a non-tacticool FAL, maybe an FNC (always loved that gun), a Skorpion (come on, who doesn't wanna shoot that thing in a video game), the VZ-58, the HK P7 perhaps? The HK33 would be an awesome weapon to see (although admittedly not too plausible), an Uzi (full size or mini, doesn't really matter to me), a Makarov (still common among the Russian Armed Forces, right?), the P99, and MORE REVOLVERS, DAMMIT. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 02:04, 8 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I think if they added the FAL, it wouldn't be tacticool, seeing as how the G3A3 wasn't. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:32, 11 March 2012 (PST)

:Rumours are circulating that two such weapons in Close Quarters Pack are the CZ-75 Automatic is one such pistol as a competition towards the G18 and 93R and a new sniper rifle, the CZ-750 for the Recon. Also two new vehicles rumored are the UH-60 Blackhawk and M2A2 Bradley IFV. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:07, 9 March 2012 (CST)

::But isn't the CQ Pack gonna take place entirely indoors? I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that the four maps in the next pack are going to feture entirely infantry-based, indoors combat. I guess I could see a helicopter working in there somewhere (thinking of the Airport map's chopper-gunners on MW2, I suppose) but it seems like vehicles would break the tense, room-to-room air they're going for here. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 3:56, 13 March 2012 (EST)

The HK33 is actually in the game already, in the Back to Karkand expansion pack as the 'G53' or something like that. *EDIT* Nevermind, you meant the full size rifle, my mistake...
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

It's gonna be a bunch of CQB guns, no doubt. I'd like to see (Assault Rifles) Tavor TAR-21 and the Masada. (Carbines) AKMs and the AUG A3. (Machine Guns) LSAT and the IMI Negev (Snipers) VSS Vintorez and the DSR-1 (Submachine Guns)MP5 PDW and the Colt R0991 9mm. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 16:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year, I think we are going to have our hands full identifying all them because it ain't just firearms either, they're adding a slew of vehicles with each pack as is the norm with this supposed DLC's. "Close quarters" I think is mostly gonna be all transport vehicles so I suspect, possibly Technicals, Civilian Vehicles, maybe an aerial transport helicopter/plane or light attack scout helicopters, possibly light IFV's too. Weapons are likely to be CQB in nature, I'm hoping for alot of Sub-Machine Gun's and Shotguns, the game needs more Pump Shotguns in my opinion. My general wish-list includes:

* SA58 OSW Battle Rifle and Type 95 Assault Rifle (to round out the Chinese Firepower in BF3, almost the full collection now) for the Assault Kit
* Zastava M92 (Compact AK47 Variant) and the Mark 18 Mod 0 (Ultra compact AR) and possibly the QLZ-87 Automatic Grenade Launcher (as an Anti-Vehicle Weapon, replaces the Rocket Launcher) for the Engineer
* MG3 GPMG and L86A2 (Equivalent to BF3's RPK and M27, gotta have more weapons like those for the Support Kit)
* Mark 12 SPR (American equivalent of the SKS in BF3) and CZ-750 for the Recon
* CZ-75 Auto, H&K MP5, Mossberg 590 Pump Shotgun (if it was a secondary for the Assault I'd be in love with it), TOZ-194, Valtro PM-5, Sawn Off Double Barrel, Benelli M3 Super 90, Smith & Wesson 686, SIG P226, H&K USP, QSZ-92 and FN Five SeveN are just some examples of all kit weapons I'd love to see.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:56, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:If they added the QLZ-87, it would be '''''WAY''''' overpowered. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:28, 12 March 2012 (PST)

:Dunno about the QLZ-87, man. I'd think most Battlefield players are already sick of overpowered, hand-held weapons that can auto-fire frags. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 4:03, 13 March 2012 (EST)

"There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year"<br/>
Thirty weapons in each pack? Are you kidding me? BtK had eight weapons. And how do you know all the packs will have weapons in?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:37, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:Actually, BtK had ten weapons, and he meant at least 30 overall, he just stated it wrong. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 3:28, 9 March 2012 (PST)

They just released a new trailer that shows off some of the weapons in the first expansion pack, I only saw two but there may be more hidden throughout, the ones I saw were the L86A1 and the ACR(I assume it was the ACR, it was however called "ACW-R", I'm seeing a trend with Magpul weapons here with the PDR being renamed the PDW-R. (PS. sorry if I screwed up the formatting, this is my first entry.)
After further searching the complete list seems to be AUG, SPAS-12, ACW-R(ACR), L86A1 LSW, LSAT, MTAR-21, SCAR-L. However some people claim to have spotted the CZ-75 Auto. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 12:38, 13 March 2012 (CET)

:Good catch Spry, I watched the trailer twice carefully and found the same. I'll make it a list so it's easier to see. As with Karkand we should avoid adding anything new to the main page until we have more to add. I'm assuming the same weapon layout as Karkand until I hear something solid about that full auto CZ-75, maybe it has a stock and is a PDW? I'm also assuming what go to what classes, can't really go wrong there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:47, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

*Assault: SCAR-L (misspelled as SCARL-L; I tweeted Demize)
*Assault: AUG (variant unknown)
*Engineer: ACR (as ACW-R, like PDW-R)
*Engineer: MTAR-21
*Support: L86A1
*Support: LSAT
*Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)
*Recon: ???
*All Kit: "M5K" (don't know what it is, described as M5K tactical machine pistol)
*All Kit: SPAS-12

LIST EDITED

::I'm excited to see the AUG and the MTAR, but the ACR and SCAR-L... while I have nothing against them (in fact, I really like them) aren't they a bit... implausible? As for the LSAT... HELL. NO. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:15, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Not sure if this is on the up and up, but people are talking about the Recon weapons being the HK417 and the CZ-750 (these are were supposedly found buried in some code in a leaked beta build), and with both of these weapons having an effective range of about a thousand meters, this seems plausible. However others are claiming there will be no Recon weapons in this expansion, which seems like it would a stupid move on DICE's part. In addition people are saying the ACR will be a carbine with a 25+1 capacity, and that the SCAR-L will be the assault rifle weapon (seems odd to have a the 7.62 variant as a carbine and the 5.56 variant as an assault rifle, but oh well). Others say the second All Kit weapon will be something called an M5K? I'm not sure what that is. Again none of this was shown in the trailer, however some people claim to have seen the CZ-750 in the trailer, but it's such a poor view that it could just as well be the SV-98. Also, BF3 fans work fast, someone made these mock ups of the stats screens for the guns: http://imgur.com/a/iOlAQ [[User:Spry|Spry]] 03:08, 14 March 2012 (CET)

::::After thinking about it a bit, I'm starting to think the M5K is meant to be the MP5K, when you consider that they've renamed a couple of H&K weapons like the HK53 and the HK416, it's plausible that they had some licensing issues with H&K like they seem to have had with Magpul and Glock (No surprise there, considering how notoriously protective Glock is of their brand), So they probably just renamed it the M5K. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 10:29, 14 March 2012 (CET)
:::::Either that, or they misspelled it, like they did the SCAR-L. And if the MP5 doesn't have H&K's name in its name, they probably wouldn't have to rename it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:18, 14 March 2012 (PST)
::::::You also have to take into account that some of the weapons used by said classes in the trailer could just be kits they picked up in the middle of the battle, perhaps to throw off the assertion of which one belongs to who. I'm just glad the L86A1 is in there, finally another British weapon added, just add a Browning Hi-Power or a SIG P226 and I'm set! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:38, 14 March 2012 (CDT)Draco122

An M203A2 would be a nice addition, since the Marines don't use the M320. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:12, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

I thought this belonged here, since we're on the subject of expansions, here's a HUGE list of updates in this upcoming patch.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/#!/bf3/news/view/2832654779195992365/ [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 01:56, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

"Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)" TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:59, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

Does anyone know of any new info on the weapons in the expansion? I still have no idea of what the 2nd recon weapon is (Is recon even getting 2 weapons?). Now I'm hearing the TAR is going to be all-kit? I'm clearly confused. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== L96 Irons?! ==

What in the holy hell is that garbage?! finally a rifle with good iron sights and the stick a SECOND front sight on the end of the receiver rail... for a whopping 7" sight radius... dear god what a disappointment. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]]
:As a side note, that isn't an L96 front sight, looks more like the one that is on the G22 (German variant of the AWM). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:39, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
::Hahaha, that was my reaction too. The sights will be fixed in that big patch that should be out this month. It was on that huge notes list. EDIT: I think the BF3 rifle IS the G22; folding stock & front sight. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/G22_ohne_Schalldaempfer.jpg here][[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:55, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:AI AW G22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|G22 - .300 Winchester Magnum]]

: question on the L96, what is it chambered in? It should be .300 Winchester Magnum (I think?) but the ingame description says 7.62mmx51mm NATO... [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 00:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
::The standard Arctic Warfare is chambered in either .243 Winchester or 7.62x51mm NATO. However, the in game gun is modelled on a magnum rifle (can tell by the size of the magazine) which is chambered in .300 Winchester of .338 Lapua. The caliber is correct for the name of the gun, but wrong for the model it actually is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:00, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
:Keep in mind most of the calibres are wrong for the Back To Karkand guns, like the QBs being 5.45mm [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:40, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Shortcuts ==

I was on the 360 Marketplace this week, looking for new Add-ons for any of my games when I came across several for Battlefield 3. They are class specific and cost 560 Microsoft points apiece or you can get the ultimate bundle which includes Air, Ground and Co-Op 'shortcuts' for a whopping 3200 points. What a shortcut entails is basically a free pass to getting ALL of the specific kits weapons, attachments and gadgets thereby bypassing the experience system if someone has the credits.

In short, this is a noob's wetdream. Personally, I think they should rename the Ultimate Shortcut Bundle to the Ultimate Lazy Bastards Bundle. Thankfully all of the shortcuts have been getting pretty low reviews. Thoughts? --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 16:28, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

:Wait, it includes weapon attachments? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:24, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Every other game is dumbed down for casual gamers to blow through in an hour. Why is this any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Shortcuts are gay. 'nuff said. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 17:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm not too happy about shortcuts either, but did you really have to use gay as a way to insult it? [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42
:Sorry, I forgot gay means "happy" --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:27, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

== SPAS-12 = Pump-Action? ==

I was watching the part of the Close-Quarters Expansion Pack trailer where it showed the SPAS-12, and it looked like it was operating in pump-action mode. Is anyone else disappointed by this? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

I'm actually quite glad, I was quite disappointed with the lack of pump-action shotguns in game. I guess they could say it's an SAS-12 so it's a pump-action only variant in real life. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42

I don't really care, I want more pump actions, but another tube fed semi action shotty too. --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:40, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

:Same here, it's not technically wrong, and since we need at least one more pump shotgun, I'm fine with it. I also think they went with the SPAS-12 because most pump shotguns like 870s, Mossbergs, Ithicas, etc, looks very similar. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:20, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

::True, but they could have done the Tactical version of the Benelli Nova or SuperNova. They look unique enough. Or they could have done the Kel-Tec KSG, except without continuous fire of its two magazines (I'm looking at you, MW3).

What's wrong with a pump shotgun with 12 shots (*EDITED* the Kel-tec KSG)? The street sweeper (DAO-12) has 12 shots AND is semi-auto, then there's the USAS-12 with 10+1 and FULL-auto, a pump action with 12 or 12+1 capicity wounldn't be much of a big deal. - Wantabe_Warrior38

:You think the SPAS-12 has 12 shots? It only has an 8-round magazine. *EDITED* No, when I said "continuous fire", I meant in MW3, you continually fire as if it automatically switched its magazines, instead of actually having to manually switch it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

::Pretty sure he meant the KSG. And yeah, the SuperNova looks pretty sweet, I like the trigger guard :) EDIT: Are there any pump-action mag-fed shotguns? I can't think of any, but that'd be pretty cool, like the M1014 and Saiga-12K. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:30, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
:::There are conversion kits to convert popular pump guns to magazine fed, but they look odd with the magazine being further forward than normal, under the existing magazine tube. There are pump actions that are made with box magazines like the [[Valtro PM5 Shotgun]] series, or the [[Hawk shotgun series]]. There is also the [[Franchi SPAS-15]] which is semi/pump like the SPAS-12. I have also seen Saigas that have been converted to pump action. These are just off the top of my head, there are probably other, more obscure weapons out there. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:47, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

== KH2002 Magazine ==

Is it using the 20 round stanag magazine? Looks like it. If it is, ill mention it on the kh2002 portion of the page
EoghanG93 22-4-12

The in game magazine capacity is 30. So I doubt it would be, someone would've picked up on that mistake by now. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 01:24, 27 April 2012 (CET)

== RPK Mag ==
So, it seems someone screwed up during the development of the patch and now the RPK has an extended mag option that gives it 199+1 rounds :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 11 April 2012 (CDT)
:I think it was a DICE only attachment pre-patch --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 20:02, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

:Doubtful, the MG36 and the QBB are mysteriously missing their "extended mag" attachments, leading to the unfortunate scene of a perpetually capped off Beta C-Mag. :S -- Long Fallen 02:02, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

:The QBB is only supposed to have 75, so that was good, I think they just forgot to up the default capacity of the MG36 when they removed the attachements. Also, those two also got a heavy barrel option, and the AS Val got a 30 round mag option. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:15, 17 April 2012 (CDT)

:After June patch, RPK Ext. magazine is gone. However, they introduced Ext. Magazine for M27 IAR, and MG36 is still missing extended magazine and it's limited to fire only 51 rounds.....Nice job DICE! [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] 11:52, 13 June 2012 (PST)

::LOL! Baby steps... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:10, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

== Donya Fortress Trailer ==

See this for the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LipJK6nxEw&feature=g-u-u

Weapons seen (Confirmed):
*MTAR-21
*SPAS-12 (fired in pump action)
*AUGA3
*ACR (Called ACW-R)
*JNG-90
*L86 (Seen at 1:14)

Weapons seen (Unconfirmed):
*LSAT Machine Gun (Used by Engineer at 0:29 and seen in killfeed)
*Unknown compact AK variant (Seen at 1:11, carried by Engineer, looks different from AKS-74U)
*Unknown long barrelled Revolver (Also seen at 1:11, carried by a Support)

Thats all I can spot [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

M417 appears in the Killfeed. [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/File:M417.jpg Sauce.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:32, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:I'm betting it's the semi-auto sniper for the recon kit [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:49, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::The fact it's seen being used by a Recon kit at around 1:05 with an EoTech and a suppressor lends credence to the idea.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:54, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:::Looks like a standard 74U to me, but that pistol doesn't really look like anything. I found the MP5K, it's at 0:50. As far as I can tell this just confirms the SPAS-12 is pump, the MP5K is the SMG, and the other sniper is the JNG-90, which I'd never heard of before. Also, they updated the "AUG" to "AUG A3" since the last trailer :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:45, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::::Yeah, I'm pretty content with the weapons selection now that we've pretty much seen all of them. I'm kind of hoping that the SPAS-12 is both pump-action and semi-auto, though.
:::::From the press release: ''•Earn 10 new weapons and bring them back to the base game including: 1.AUG Assault Rifle, 2.SCAR Assault Rifle, 3.ACW-R Carbine, 4.MTAR-21 Carbine, 5.M417 Sniper Rifle, 6.JNG-90 Sniper Rifle, 7.L86LSW Machine Gun, 8.LSAT Machine Gun, 9.M5K Tactical Machine Pistol, 10.PAS-12 Shotgun'' [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 06:18, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

:Good, the SCAR-L is an AR and the ACR is a carbine, that's what I was hoping for, and the only thing we didn't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:29, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== SIG SG 553 ==

Do you ever see the charging handle of the SG 553, as I'm wondering whether it is genuinely an SG 553 or a mislabelled SG 552 (charging handle is the only deffinite difference). The gun picture is actually a mislabelled SG 552. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:20, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
:You can look at the right side of weapons in-game by putting them on a bipod and rotating them. What exactly is the definitive difference between the 552 and 533, other than the RIS? --[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 19:07, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

== MP7A1 ==

No matter how many times I look at, or just think of, the MP7 rounds ''this'' big I have hilarity induced seizures. Thanks for the unending joy, but I am suing you for giving me epilepsy. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 11:35, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

...what?
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 01:13, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

One of the screen shots for the MP7 shows the reload animation without a magazine, so the animation looks like the player is gesturing how big the bullets would be.--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 01:26, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

:It's pretty funny, as are a lot of the other ones. Whoever does those captions, I don't know if it's everyone or one really funny person, but thank you :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:52, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

== Missing Screenshots ==

So I noticed we're still missing a in game screenshots of some of the BtK weapons. I loaded up fraps and snapped a few of the ones I have unlocked. I'm missing the QBU-88 QBZ-95B the L96 and the MK3A1, but I have a few good shots of the rest. Screwed up catching images of some of the charging animations though. Also, the charging animation on the L85 looks like it's just smacking the cheek rest. Photo album is here: [http://imgur.com/a/j38Rv] I'll let someone more senior that me decide which photos to add, it's been a while since I edited a wiki. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:29, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
:That is correct for an L85, there is a bolt release catch underneath the cheek rest on the left side of the gun. When you empty a magazine the bolt will lock back, so you just need to change the magazine and push the catch up to chamber the first round. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:11, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks for that Commando, info on the L85 seems hard to find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:56, 30 April 2012 (CDT)

== PP-19 ==

Since the patch hsa changed the PP-19to be chambered in the 9x18mm Makarov, would it be at all possible to have the screenshot of the loadout screen to represent the change? It currently shows it pre-patch where its still in the 9x19mm Parabellum. I'd do it myself but I only have it for 360 and I don't know how. Thanks. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:58, 13 May 2012 (CDT)

== How do we know the M1911 in this game is an M-45 MEU(SOC)? ==

The real life picture provided shows the pistol with U.S. Army markings. How do we know the in-game M1911 is actually an MEUSOC?

:"It is a standard M1911A1 with a three-hole trigger, a Springfield slide, commander-style hammer, beavertail grip safety, Pachmayr rubber grips, and uses 8 round magazines." That's an exact match to the 1st-gen MEUSOC pisotls. As for why it has army markings, it was probably built on a standard Army M1911A1, but I don't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:57, 16 May 2012 (CDT)

== Close Quarters Weapons ==

So I bought Premium, and I've unlocked a few of the guns. Uploaded some screens, and I'm gonna start adding them into the page.

I have the SCAR-L, AUG-A3, ACR, HK417, SPAS-12, L86A2. I can't unlock the MP5K or the JNG-90 until the maps are unlocked on PC, but I'll add the LSAT and MTAR-21 screens when I unlock them. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:05, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

Added missing screens of the L85A2, MG36, QBB-95, LSAT, MTAR-21. Still have the QBU-88 sniper rifle and the L96/G22 to add. Too tired to add them now. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:21, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

== CQ Weapons Comments ==

I was disappointed to see the ACR in the carbine kit although it's the full length version with a fixed stock. I was hoping they'd put the SCAR-L in the carbine kit instead, as the SCAR-H already is there.
I Also liked if the HK417 was in the assault kit also as a Battle rifle. THe G3A3 is the only battle rifle in the Assault kit.
Instead of the HK417 being in recon they could have put in a modernized Saiga 308 or the Mk12 SPR.
Apart from that I rather do like the DLC and the weapons. [[User:EoghanG93|EoghanG93]] 10:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)
:I think they put the SCAR-L in the Assault kit because they needed to do a little balancing with the SCAR-H and -L. If the lower-powered one was the one with the shorter barrel, and therefore range, the higher-powered one would be chosen, whether it was in the same kit or not, because of its higher power and range. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:25, 9 June 2012 (PST)

The ACR is apparently using the 6.5 Grendel round, if the Battlelog weapon profile is anything to go by. -- Long Fallen 15:53, 8 June 2012 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's probably why it has a 26-round magazine instead of a 30-rounder. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:34, 9 June 2012 (PST)
::The damage of this gun is actually a lot different from other engineer guns. Unlike M4/AKS-74U and etc, it does less damage in close range, but it does more damage than other carbines. Is that an accrate representation of 6.5 Grendel round?? [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] 11:40, 13 June 2012 (PST)

== L86= A1 or A2? ==

On the page, it says that the L86 in-game is an A1, mislabeled as an A2. However, if that was because of the charging handle, I've heard of L85A1's and L86A1's upgraded in the field to A2 retaining their old A1 charging handle. Is there anything else that differentiates the L86A1 and A2? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:21, 9 June 2012 (PST)
:"upgraded in the field"
:You can do that? Last time I checked most of the A2 upgrades were armourer / factory level changes that can't be done by the average squaddie in the field. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:58, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::That's what I heard, maybe a gunsmith in the field upgraded it for the rest of the people in his squad/platoon/other organisation level in the military. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:59, 10 June 2012 (PST)

The L86 has the same charging handle as the L85 in game, if that makes a difference. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 06:04, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

Looks like it's missing the guard around the magazine catch that was added to the A2. Also, I don't know what the hell is going on [[:File:Bf3_l86a2_bolt.jpg|here.]] It's not "slapping the bolt catch" because A. The SA80 bolt release is on the other side of the weapon, and B. you can't slap it anyway. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:48, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
:That is "slapping the bolt catch", as there is a bolt release catch on the left side of the weapon just above the fire selector (where he is slapping). On SA80 weapons there is a catch on the right side behind the ejection port which you use to hold the bolt open, but there is a separate release catch on the left side. If you empty a magazine and the bolt locks back, to reload the weapon you just have the change the magazine and press the catch up to release the bolt and chamber the first round. You are correct that it doesn't have the shield around the mag release indicating that it is based on an A1 (or an inaccurate airsoft A2). Also, there were no field upgraded A2 weapons, the upgrade was carried out in a factory by H&K. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:34, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::Ah, than I guess it is an A1. Thanks, Commando. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 2:00, 10 June 2012 (PST)
:::So it's an A1 with an A2 charging handle? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:29, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Does anyone have a shot where you see the charging handle, as there are none on the main page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:00, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Edit: I just searched on youtube for some vids of it and it is very hard to see the charging handle clearly, but it is visible when you vault over things and it appears to be a standard round A1 handle rather than the comma shaped A2 handle. In fact now that I'm thinking about it, the A2 flash hider pokes upwards higher than the top of the receiver, so if it was an A2 handle you should be able to see it from the regular view anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

::::: The L86 is an A1, I think? The charging handle is straight, and not the crescent/comma shaped one from the L85A2. You can see it clearly here. [[File:l86 a1 charge handle.jpg|400px|thumb|none]] [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 17:38, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
That confirms it then, just a straight L86A1. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

I'm glad that DICE seems to at least understand the difference between the A1 and A2, because the L86 in the trailer was called L86A1, and they might have changed it to A2 to rid it of the horrid reputation of the A1. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:08, 10 June 2012 (PST)

== Armoured Kill ==

New info out! Can anyone help on IDs? The AC-130 is obvious, and the Quad appears to be the BC2 one. There's a pair of Mobile Artillery, and a pair of "Tank Destroyers". I'm not that good with vehicles, but I see a tank that looks like a T-52? T-72? Something Soviet. Also, what looks like a Stryker with a huge cannon. US Mobile Artillery? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:35, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/823-ac-130-not-driveable/

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/826-battlefield-3-dlc-armored-kill-g4tv/

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/822-ac-130-plus-bandar-desert-screens/

:I think the Styker is the M1128 Mobile Gun system (unless there's another Stryker which carries a big gun), so I think that would make it one of the 'tank destroyers'. I don't think the tank is a T-72, the hull doesn't look right. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

The Russian vehicle looks like a 2S25 Sprut airborne tank destroyer. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fan]] 10:45, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

::I believe you're both right. I looked up the Sprut, it's basically a BMD-3 with a tank cannon, which matches the Stryker nicely. That gives us our two tank destroyers, so we have yet to see either mobile artillery vehicles yet. EDIT: BF Wiki says that's right, and that the MA are the M142 HIMARS and the BM-21 Grad. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:19, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

There was a teaser video for the Battlefield 3 premium release that showed the wire outlines for the Grad and the HIMAR but no action video unless you count the Grads in the Single player mission called "Thunder run" I think. Also the box art for the armoured kill expansion shows a H-60 Blackhawk so that might be included as well. -[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

:Nah, the Blackhawk's just on the box art again. Premium confirms we know everything, 20 guns, 10 vehicles. 10 guns in Karkand and 10 in CQB. Three vehicles in Karkand, six in Armoured Kill, plus the motorcycle in End Game. That's everything. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:22, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:: Wait, so we're not getting any new weapons in Armored Kill? I thought DICE said we were getting 10 new guns in each expansion? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 12:31, 16 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Well, there's rumoured Mk 14, but as far as I know, no. They said 20 guns, that's 10 in Karkand, 10 in CQ. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

::That explains it, when I saw the 10 vehicles I forgot about the ones from Karkand and thought 10 new vehicles. I thought it was seemed out of place for an Army Blackhawk when the Marine UH-1Y is already in the game. That bugged me in BF2. [[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

== ACR in 6.5mm Grendel? ==

Hi, I just wonder that the expected caliber for the ACR is 6.5*39mm Grendel. Can please somebody explain this exception to me?

U used to expect 6.8*43mm SPC, because of the capacity of 26 Bullets in the STANAG Shaped Magazine.

The usual STANAG Shape Capacity of the 6.8 SPC is around 25 and the 6.8mm SPC base diameter in 10,72 cm. The Grendels base diameter in 11,15, so I expect a lightly smaller Mag Capacity.

And isn't it more explicable that Remingtron delivers his own weapons in its own caliber first?

By the way, this is not a fixed opinion but more like a thought, that we might say that the 6,8 SPC is a possible caliber to. [[User:RRT877|RRT(//]] 10:52, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:Copied directly from Battlelog- ''This adaptive combat rifle features a number of recent rifle designs and acts as a lightweight, feature heavy, rifle platform. '''Using the modern, recoil-reducing “Grendel” round,''' as well as being built to endure rough weather conditions and capable of utilizing standard STANAG magazines, this rifle is equipped to fill many of the roles required by both military and law enforcement uses.'' However, the ammunition specs say ''30 rounds [5.56x45mm NATO]''.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:16, 18 June 2012 (CDT)
::Well, the "ACR 6.8" in MW3 also had a 30-round capacity and it was using PMags. Developers don't really care about stuff like this being real. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:38, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:::Infinity Ward, sure, but DICE puts way more effort into making their games realistic.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:37, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

I have the ACR unlocked, and the mag curve definitely isn't 5.56x45. If you guys want I can grab a screenshot of it to clear it up? [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 17:08, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

I'm thinking that DICE originally intended to make it in 5.56, but changed the model to 6.8 and forgot to update the Battlelog specs.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:37, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:Well regardless of their first intention, I say we go off the magazine curve. Which is here[http://i.imgur.com/7zNVl.jpg] [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:10, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

::I wasn't suggesting that we should go off of their first intention, but rather trying to figure out why Battlelog is so drastically different from the in-game model (which is clearly a 6.8)--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:30, 18 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I don't think they pay as much attention to battelog. The QBZ-95B and QBU-88 were both listed as the wrong caliber, and the assignment images are all over the place. According to it's Assignment image, the Mk3A1 is chamber in .223 remington. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:33, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

Thank to you for clearing this. So Our Point is:

Model: 6,8 SPC
Battlelog: 5,56mm / 6,5 Grendel
Stats: 6,5 Grendel

Would you sight this? [[User:RRT877|RRT877]] 11:29, 19 June 2012 (CDT)

== Two questions ==

1. Do all of these bullpup weapons actually have bolt releases? I guess other games like Rainbow Six have kinda drilled me on using the charging handle on weapons like the AUG and SA80
2. Is it technically incorrect for Marines to be using 240B's? I've read a few articles, as well as seen pictures of Marines with 240's equipped with the rails and heat shields characteristic of a 240 Bravo.

:I don't know about the AUG, info on the L85 is hard to come by, but from what I've found it does have a bolt catch. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:44, 18 June 2012 (CDT)
As there is a bit of confusiong and lack of information out there, I'll give a little run down on the controls.
[[File:Sa80-l85a2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
The bolt handle is obvious, being the curved piece of dark plastic at the front of the bolt. The large green piece of plastic behind this is a dust cover that opens when the bolt moves back (it doesn't close when the bolt goes forward again, it has to be manually closed). Behind and below the dust cover is a small green plastic catch which is the bolt hold-open catch. The way that you are meant to use the hold open catch is to reach over the top of the weapon with your left hand, pull the bolt back with the side of your index finger, and when the bolt is fully retracted you push down on the catch with your thumb. It isn't really visible in this shot, but the safety is a cross-bolt above the trigger.
[[File:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
This isn't a great pic of the left side but it is the only one on here. The fire selector is at the bottom of the weapon, half way between the magazine and the butt pad. The lower position is "A" for automatic and the upper is "R" for repetition (semi-automatic). Just above and forward of this there is a square catch just below the cheek rest. This is the bolt release, and when the bolt is held back you pull it down to release the bolt. Not sure if just slapping it on the side would actually work, but in essence the reload animation is correct. However, just realised that the model for the L85A2 is missing the fence around the magazine relese. My guess is that they reused the receiver model from the L86A1 and just put the correct charging handle on it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:45, 19 June 2012 (CDT)

:Ah, you push it down, okay :) Thanks for the info [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:25, 19 June 2012 (CDT)

== m-tar 21 ==

Does anyone know how the m-tar mounts accessories? The front grip doesn't appear to have any rails

:If you look at the picture in Battlelog, you can see that there are rails on the in-game model. This is not inaccurate, as rails can be mounted.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:00, 26 June 2012 (CDT)

== Correct Dragunov SVD? ==

I recently got the Mastery dogtag for the SVD and I think It's the correct version and not the NDM-86?

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/Finncq/dogtags/245528281/ps3/

--[[User:Kona|Kona]] 10:38, 22 July 2012 (CDT)

:Looks like it is the proper one. A number of the Mastery dog tags do that, the MG36 comes to mind. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:38, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

== Mk. 14??? ==

I was reading the page, and I saw Mk. 14 Mod 0 in the Assault Rifles & Battle Rifles category. Now, naturally, I was confused, because there was no confirmed Mk. 14 in any footage of anything about the game. Then, I clicked it and was taken to its space on the page, and it said it was seen in Armored Kill gameplay in the hands of the Engineer class. First off, even if the the Mk. 14 was in the game, it wouldn't a carbine, so it was probably picked up by the Engineer. Second, DICE previously confirmed that '''there would be no new weapons in Armored Kill'''. So, that wasn't a Mk. 14, that was an M39 picked up by an Engineer. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 00:16, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

The M39 is rumored to be an all-kit weapon in Armored Kill. If they do that, I think the G3A3 should become all-kit, too, kinda like Bad Company. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 09:20, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

The M39 is a marksman rifle. It belongs in the Recon class. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 11:08, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

Let's just take it off the page. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 11:58, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

:I agree it shouldn't be on the main page yet. It was seen in video of Armoured Kill gameplay in the hands of an Engineer, as he switched to and RPG in the footage. The ammo count was 20 +1 and, though I don't remember, it may have been firing full auto. That's all we know right now. I've also heard rumours that they may add the M107 into MP, though those are compelete rumours, so don't get your hopes up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:48, 31 July 2012 (CDT)
::Could you post the link to said video? --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 11:24, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

:::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wapDDxuvhCg Here]. At 0:40, 1:10, & 1:22. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:14, 1 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Interesting...--[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 15:59, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::Guys, apparently, the full-auto Mk. 14 being used by an Engineer was probably just a DICE-exclusive weapon. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 21:20, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

:::::Can anyone confirm that it was indeed a Mk 14? If it's in the game in any fashion, it should be on the page. Whether it's DICE-exclusive or publicly-usable is irrelevant. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:35, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

::::::No new info, sadly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:51, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== Could we remove info added pre release ==

Some of the weapons have info added pre release such as the Franchi SPAS-12 as the page says it is one of the 10 guns in the UPCOMING close quarters expansion pack and plenty of others have remnants of info added pre release.--[[User:Xtremegianca|Xtremegianca]] 21:32, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

== EA/DICE "Silently" Removing DLC weapons ==

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/electronic-arts-removes-content-from-battlefield-3s-aftermath-and-end-game-dlc/

Just came across this tid-bit of information regarding Aftermath and Endgame DLC's about EA removing content from Aftermath and End Game despite the fact that previous advertising marked that an additional 10 new weapons would be provided but I'm getting mixed thoughts about this all and wanted peoples views? I personally think it's bogus, what with the new Aftermath Trailer showcasing a Crossbow as a new weapon but I've heard nothing concrete and was wondering if anyone had any idea if this is confirmed or not? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 19:22, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:The DLC hasn't been released yet, so they're allowed to add or remove anything they want from it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:30, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

::These two DLCs never said anything about new weapons, there were always going to be 20, and the article even admits that :/ As for the bullet points on the pictures, there's only room for four things, so they most likely decided marketing the new gamemode was better than marketing the crossbow. It's made from an HK417, by the way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:50, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

:::Actually, it's not. It's a real-life crossbow upper receiver for AR-15 platform lowers. It's called the [http://pse-archery.com/products/productdetail/part_number=01135/445.5.1.1.87663.1003538.0.0.0 PSE TAC 15]. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 19:50, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

::::Actually, Alex, the DLC originally did have new weapons, here is the original BF Premium ad, [http://bf3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/battlefield-premium.jpg here]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 21:03, 30 October 2012 (EDT)
:::::You'll need to upload the actual image elsewhere. The blog doesn't let you link to it --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 23:47, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

I can't upload it, I'm on an IPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 00:40, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

== "XBOW" ==

[[File:BF3-Xbow-Render.jpg|thumb|250px]]The new Aftermath DLC is adding something called the "XBoW". Now before you say that's the PSE TAC 15, it's not. The in game render makes it pretty clear it's a homemade crossbow, and according to its description and appearance, it's built from a salvaged HK417. I've included the image for reference. Now I'm not sure what the policy is on this, but do we add this under the HK417 because it's the base for the weapon? [[User:OmgHAX!|OmgHAX!]] ([[User talk:OmgHAX!|talk]]) 20:16, 3 November 2012 (EDT)
:I was wondering about this too. Maybe make it an extra on the bottom of the main page? I think it should probably be present on the page, as after all, it does inlvove a firearm in one way or another. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:05, 26 November 2012 (EST)
::In general the Rambo Exemption applies to bows which fire explosive arrows, and otherwise it's ok to mention a bow for trivia, completeness, or if the precise make and model is known. The rule mainly exists to stop pages ending up full of "unknown bow" entries that nobody will ever fill in, and / or someone using "you allowed it there!" to make a page for something like ''Lord of the Rings''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:16, 26 November 2012 (EST)
:::Makes sense. Should this crossbow be added then? As it does fire explosive arrows, and it is made from a HK416/417. I think that's enough so it isn't one of those random, useless "Bow" entries. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:05, 26 November 2012 (EST)
::::I see no problem adding it, personally I'd put it under "Other weapons" at the very bottom with the heading as '"Xbow" (Converted HK417)' [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:53, 27 November 2012 (EST)
:::::I'll grab a few shots of the XBOW when I get my graphics card back. I'll dig up some of the pre-release info too, which talked about how the XBOW was made out of car parts. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:54, 12 December 2012 (EST)
Here's the Battlefield Wikia page on the XBOW. http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/XBOW
Apparently it is based on the HK 417 and fires four different kind of bolts: Standard, HE (Which does less damage than an RPG), Scan (Which scans a 10m area for enemies, the bolt itself does the same amount of damage as a single 5.56 round.) and the Balanced (Which has longer range but does less damage.) --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 17:09, 9 December 2012 (EST)

== Operation Guillotine ==

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a clue as to why the game developers gave the US Marines H&K UMPs on this level? The Marines in your squad and the rest of Misfit during the human wave charge down Mount Ridiculous are armed with M16s, but once you hop the wall every Marine has a UMP. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand no Marine is issued an M16A3, but UMPs? I don't think even MARSOC nor Marine Security Something Or Another is armed with UMPs. Just a thought.
[[User:Miyazawa|Miyazawa]] ([[User talk:Miyazawa|talk]]) 19:00, 30 November 2012 (EST)Miyazawa

It's a game and DICE wanted to give the Marines some UMPs. Of course someone's gonna come along and say "it's 2014, maybe the USMC adopted the UMP between 2011 and 2014." Just stop over thinking it. --[[User:CommanderLukas|Commander Lukas]] ([[User talk:CommanderLukas|talk]]) 16:53, 12 December 2012 (EST)

== QLZ-87 Auto GL in Aftermath + HMMWV Mk.19 ==

So, the Aftermath DLC has brought back the Chinese rotary GL from previous game on the Barsuk (modified Vodnik) and the US Hummvee equivalent sports a Mk.19 w/o any feeding system, oddly. -AgentGumby
:Don't you know? The Army and Heckler & Koch are close to finishing their new joint project, the XM901 IBB, or ''Invisible Belt Box''. It has several key improvements over existing, visible belt boxes, such as being invisible (meaning your remaining ammo will float in mid-air and be visible to all of your enemies), it's 25 lbs heavier, %50 more expensive, and it's also %70 more complicated to attach to the weapon system. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:52, 13 December 2012 (EST)
::Oh, sorry, typo. I meant to say ''%250 more expensive''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:55, 13 December 2012 (EST)

== BF3 Flaws ==

I have posted some flaws I face sometimes in BF3 on the Forum. And a wish list which would make the game better. http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2108 --[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 10:58, 24 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Steyr AUG

2012-12-17T07:56:10Z

Alkillmatic: /* AUG refered twice in Black Ops */

==Additional Images==
[[Image:Steyr_AUG_A3_SF.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Steyr AUG A2 SF 16 inches barrel 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:Austeyr f88t 1-tfb.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Austeyr F-88T training rifle, a .22 calibre training version of the Austeyr F88S, with integral Picantinny rail, 20-inch barrel and standard 1.5 power optic - .22 LR]]

==Talk==

There is a major problem on this page. The AUG-A2 is not only different because of its capability to mount a Picatinny scope rail in place of the integrated scope. It also varies in a minor detail concerning its charging handle. On the A1, the handle was permenantly fixed at an angle, and in the A2 it could be folded to lie alongside the receiver. A scope rail is nothing new, as the AUG had the option of mounting a NATO-standard sighting mount since it was introduced (as the AUG-T), the A2 just introduced an easier method of mounting. This really needs to be rectified. I am willing to do it but I would like to hear some confirmation before I change this. Additionally, the AUG-A2 is also available with the integrated rifle scope. See Steyr-Mannlicher's website: www.Steyr-Mannlicher.com.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 15:40, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

==uhh wtf==

is a F89 as far as i know the F88 is the only steyr used by the ADF the F89 is the designation given to the Minimi i should know seeing i have use a F88 before

also on another note the ADF has started using new F88's pretty much everything that was black is now a greenish tan and new sights that look similar to the A3's sights. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== Why do alot of people hate the Steyr AUG and nearly every other bullpup rifle out there? ==

Seriously, it seems like most people that I talk to love to hate bullpup rifles like the Steyr AUG. Why do bullpups get so much hate anyway? They are just as good as any other standard assault rifle, even though they are designed differently and have a different look, they can still pack the same punch that your standard M-16 or AK-47 rifle can. Yet there are all these fan-brats of those other assault rifles who just love to hate on bullpups and will come up with some rather stupid and over the top reasons to hate on them such as; '''"OMG! Ur a Counter-Strike noob cuz u liek teh FAMAS!"''', if you say you like bullpup rifles to them. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:17, 3 June 2011 (CDT)
:Maybe these haters are left-handed people who don't like hot brass flying into their face. I think there are only two or three bullpup designs that are truly ambidextrous, some can be converted, while some just force lefties to shoot right-handed. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 09:52, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::The AUG, FAMAS, and F2000 are fully ambidextrous, the AUG and FAMAS can have they're ejection ports flipped to the right side for left handed users, the FN F2000 doesn't need to since its ejection port is in front of the hand guard. I'm designing a bullpup assault rifle right now, I deem it the most practical futuristic assault rifle ever made. The weapon length to range ratio Is what I like most about bullpup designs. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:25, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Well Funkychinaman, most of the haters of bullpup rifles that I encounter usually hate on bullpups on the grounds that they are 'ugly-looking guns' and that they 'feel odd when handled', while others hate bullpups on the grounds of the manufacturing and materials that they are built with (Rarely do I ever hear about the 'reliability' argument). But just because some bullpups are built using high-grade plastics doesn't mean they are inferior to the aircraft-grade metal that other standard assault rifles are built from. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 03:05, 9 June 2011 (CDT)
::::Plastic and stainless steel all the way, woot! To me the AUG is a fairly handsome rifle, especially the A3, but that's just me. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 05:06, 9 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Wait a minute, what about the [[Tavor TAR-21]]? Is that one also ambidextrous? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:49, 4 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yes, the Tavor TAR-21 is also ambidextrous, it has a flippable ejection port just like the the AUG, I think it's a cool gun too. Firearm manufacturers aren't stupid, they know the problem with left-handed shooters and so they design their weapon with that in mind. The F2000's forward funneling ejection port system is very innovative and solves the problem, but personally I don't 100% trust its reliably. My bullpup assault rifle that I'm designing uses a flippable ejection port like the the AUG, atleast for now.

== Bracket on barrel ==

On some instances of the AUG it has some sort of bracket mounted on the barrel a couple of inches behind the flash hider (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AUG_A1_508mm_04.jpg). Would I be correct in assuming this is a bayonet mount? Also, is this indicative of the F88 Austeyr? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:07, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yes. I think Wikipedia's screwed up there and got a picture of an Austeyr as an AUG A1. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:41, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Checking, theirs isn't an Austeyr, it doesn't have an ALO tab at the bottom of the trigger for locking out the fullauto fire mode. It seems Steyr only sells bayonet lugged barrels to military customers (and not the Austrian military, which doesn't use a lugged barrel), so you're only really likely to see a bayonet lug on an F88 in anything live action. ALO is also on Irish Army AUGs, but it's not that likely you're going to see one of them in a movie. Apparently some newer AUG versions have started using a 3-position fire selector rather than ALO or two-step trigger (rather than just having right-safe left-auto there's a middle "semi" position, though the trigger is still two-step even on the auto setting), I guess that's why my pic of the F88S doesn't have an ALO. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:09, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

== AUG reload in Counter Strike ==

Is it just me or the reload animation of the Steyr AUG in Counter Strike resembles how to reload an MP5/G3? I mean if you look at it at the end of the reload, it seems the player performs an HK Slap.

== AUG refered twice in Black Ops ==

I noticed the AUG A1 being in Black Ops (incapable of being in that time period), but there is the AUG A2 (which someone typed in). Shouldn't there be one variant or are there two? --[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 02:55, 17 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Steyr AUG

2012-12-17T07:55:25Z

Alkillmatic: /* AUG refered twice in Black Ops */

==Additional Images==
[[Image:Steyr_AUG_A3_SF.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Steyr AUG A2 SF 16 inches barrel 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:Austeyr f88t 1-tfb.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Austeyr F-88T training rifle, a .22 calibre training version of the Austeyr F88S, with integral Picantinny rail, 20-inch barrel and standard 1.5 power optic - .22 LR]]

==Talk==

There is a major problem on this page. The AUG-A2 is not only different because of its capability to mount a Picatinny scope rail in place of the integrated scope. It also varies in a minor detail concerning its charging handle. On the A1, the handle was permenantly fixed at an angle, and in the A2 it could be folded to lie alongside the receiver. A scope rail is nothing new, as the AUG had the option of mounting a NATO-standard sighting mount since it was introduced (as the AUG-T), the A2 just introduced an easier method of mounting. This really needs to be rectified. I am willing to do it but I would like to hear some confirmation before I change this. Additionally, the AUG-A2 is also available with the integrated rifle scope. See Steyr-Mannlicher's website: www.Steyr-Mannlicher.com.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 15:40, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

==uhh wtf==

is a F89 as far as i know the F88 is the only steyr used by the ADF the F89 is the designation given to the Minimi i should know seeing i have use a F88 before

also on another note the ADF has started using new F88's pretty much everything that was black is now a greenish tan and new sights that look similar to the A3's sights. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== Why do alot of people hate the Steyr AUG and nearly every other bullpup rifle out there? ==

Seriously, it seems like most people that I talk to love to hate bullpup rifles like the Steyr AUG. Why do bullpups get so much hate anyway? They are just as good as any other standard assault rifle, even though they are designed differently and have a different look, they can still pack the same punch that your standard M-16 or AK-47 rifle can. Yet there are all these fan-brats of those other assault rifles who just love to hate on bullpups and will come up with some rather stupid and over the top reasons to hate on them such as; '''"OMG! Ur a Counter-Strike noob cuz u liek teh FAMAS!"''', if you say you like bullpup rifles to them. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:17, 3 June 2011 (CDT)
:Maybe these haters are left-handed people who don't like hot brass flying into their face. I think there are only two or three bullpup designs that are truly ambidextrous, some can be converted, while some just force lefties to shoot right-handed. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 09:52, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::The AUG, FAMAS, and F2000 are fully ambidextrous, the AUG and FAMAS can have they're ejection ports flipped to the right side for left handed users, the FN F2000 doesn't need to since its ejection port is in front of the hand guard. I'm designing a bullpup assault rifle right now, I deem it the most practical futuristic assault rifle ever made. The weapon length to range ratio Is what I like most about bullpup designs. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:25, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Well Funkychinaman, most of the haters of bullpup rifles that I encounter usually hate on bullpups on the grounds that they are 'ugly-looking guns' and that they 'feel odd when handled', while others hate bullpups on the grounds of the manufacturing and materials that they are built with (Rarely do I ever hear about the 'reliability' argument). But just because some bullpups are built using high-grade plastics doesn't mean they are inferior to the aircraft-grade metal that other standard assault rifles are built from. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 03:05, 9 June 2011 (CDT)
::::Plastic and stainless steel all the way, woot! To me the AUG is a fairly handsome rifle, especially the A3, but that's just me. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 05:06, 9 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Wait a minute, what about the [[Tavor TAR-21]]? Is that one also ambidextrous? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:49, 4 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::Yes, the Tavor TAR-21 is also ambidextrous, it has a flippable ejection port just like the the AUG, I think it's a cool gun too. Firearm manufacturers aren't stupid, they know the problem with left-handed shooters and so they design their weapon with that in mind. The F2000's forward funneling ejection port system is very innovative and solves the problem, but personally I don't 100% trust its reliably. My bullpup assault rifle that I'm designing uses a flippable ejection port like the the AUG, atleast for now.

== Bracket on barrel ==

On some instances of the AUG it has some sort of bracket mounted on the barrel a couple of inches behind the flash hider (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AUG_A1_508mm_04.jpg). Would I be correct in assuming this is a bayonet mount? Also, is this indicative of the F88 Austeyr? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:07, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yes. I think Wikipedia's screwed up there and got a picture of an Austeyr as an AUG A1. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:41, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

::Checking, theirs isn't an Austeyr, it doesn't have an ALO tab at the bottom of the trigger for locking out the fullauto fire mode. It seems Steyr only sells bayonet lugged barrels to military customers (and not the Austrian military, which doesn't use a lugged barrel), so you're only really likely to see a bayonet lug on an F88 in anything live action. ALO is also on Irish Army AUGs, but it's not that likely you're going to see one of them in a movie. Apparently some newer AUG versions have started using a 3-position fire selector rather than ALO or two-step trigger (rather than just having right-safe left-auto there's a middle "semi" position, though the trigger is still two-step even on the auto setting), I guess that's why my pic of the F88S doesn't have an ALO. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:09, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

== AUG reload in Counter Strike ==

Is it just me or the reload animation of the Steyr AUG in Counter Strike resembles how to reload an MP5/G3? I mean if you look at it at the end of the reload, it seems the player performs an HK Slap.

== AUG refered twice in Black Ops ==

I noticed the AUG A1 being in Black Ops (incapable of being in that time period), but there is the AUG A2 (which someone typed in). Shouldn't there be one variant or are there two? [[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 02:55, 17 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Steyr AUG

2012-12-15T18:12:14Z

Alkillmatic: /* AUG refered twice in Black Ops */ new section

Battlefield 3

2012-11-30T05:59:24Z

Alkillmatic: /* RPG-7V2 */

{{workinprogress}}

{{Infobox Video Game|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Battlefield 3
|picture = Bf3-pc-cover.jpg
|caption = PC Boxart
|series= Battlefield
|date= 2011
|developer=DICE
|platforms=Xbox 360<br>PC<br>Playstation 3
|publisher= EA
|genre=First-Person Shooter
}}
[[Image:Battlefield-3-back-to-karkand-pc-boxart.jpg|thumb|right|320px|Battlefield 3 Back to Karkand (2011) DLC.]]
[[Image:Battlefield-3-close-quarters-dlc-cover-hd.jpg|thumb|right|320px|Battlefield 3 Close Quarters (2012) DLC.]]

'''''Battlefield 3''''' (also known as '''''BF3''''') is the twelfth installment of the ''[[Battlefield|Battlefield series]]'', and direct sequel to ''[[Battlefield 2]]''. The game was developed by the Swedish company Digital Illusions Creative Entertainment (DICE) and published by Electronic Arts in 2011 for the PC, PS3 and Xbox 360. The game is powered by the proprietary Frostbite 2 engine, a further development of the engine used in the ''Bad Company'' games.

'''The following weapons appear in the video game ''Battlefield 3'':'''
__TOC__<br clear="all">

= Handguns =

== Beretta 92SB ==

The [[Beretta 92SB]], modified to resemble the [[Beretta 93R|93R]], can be unlocked as a sidearm in Co-Op requiring a 86,000 Co-Op Score. The weapon has been fitted with the 93R's muzzle brake and foregrip, as well as being modified to fire 3 round bursts. Uses 20 round magazines.

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92SB - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Bf3 93r holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer holds his Beretta 92SB on an F/A-18 Hornet he found grazing in a field.]]
[[Image:Bf3 93r aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the Beretta.]]
[[Image:Bf3_93r_slide_locked.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character stops to admire his custom weapon. And reload it.]]
[[Image:Bf3 93r reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After replacing the magazine he operates the slide release; note the projecting base of the 20-round magazine and the two-handed grip used with this weapon.]]

== Beretta M9 ==

In the beginning of the single-player mission "Semper Fidelis" and "The Great Destroyer", Blackburn acquires a [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta M9]]. It can also be seen holstered on some US Marine throughout the single-player campaign. In multiplayer it is the starting handgun for US forces. Another note of interest is that unlike in [[Battlefield: Bad Company 2]] and [[Medal of Honor (2010)|Medal of Honor]]'s multiplayer, the M9's magazine is 15 rounds + 1 in the chamber like in reality. In multiplayer, Players can unlock additional M9's outfitted with a Tactical Light and a Sound Suppressor separately as they level (rank) up.

[[Image:M9-pistolet.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta M9 - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:BF3-M9-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds an M9 at the start of the introductory mission "Semper Fidelis." This one of only two times in the entire campaign the player character has a sidearm.]]
[[Image:BF3-M9-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the Beretta M9.]]
[[Image:Bf3 m9 latarka reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer reloads a Beretta M9 fitted with a flashlight.]]
[[Image:Bf3_M9_suppressed.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M9 with a suppressor. Different classes of weapon use different suppressor models, but those models are shared among the weapons of that class. The only exceptions to this are the G3A3 and SCAR-H CQC, which use the same model as the sniper rifles because of their caliber.]]

== Glock 17 ==

The [[Glock#Glock 17|Glock 17]] is shown in an official screenshot for the Battlelog. Called "G17C", although it is modeled after a standard Glock 17 as there are no compensator cuts on the top of the slide. It comes standard with a laser sight, while a variant that has both a laser sight and a suppressor is available as a later unlock. It is the only handgun that lets you equip two attachments at a time without being a DICE developer. Also, all of the US Assault kit soldiers have a G17 in a chest holster in addition to whatever their selected sidearm is, and this G17 does not have a laser.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Bf3 glock 17 laser holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holding a Glock 17 fitted with a laser sight.]]
[[Image:Bf3 glock 17 laser reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the Glock 17.]]
[[Image:BF3-Glock-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A dead PLR soldier with a Glock 17 at his side.]]

== Glock 18 Generation 3 ==

The [[Glock 18|Glock 18 Generation 3]] appears as the "G18". It has an extended magazine base that gives it a 19 round capacity. Interestingly enough in the beta, the suppressed Glock 18 is unlocked before the standard unsuppressed variant (though this has been fixed in the regular game and the unsuppressed version is unlocked at Rank 30 with the suppressed variant unlocked at 41). Note that the Battlelog picture (seen below) lacks a fire selector, but is actually different than that G17's picture. This is most likely because it is from an early build of the game, as it appears correctly in-game. It is an incredibly effective sidearm in close quarters, but is useless at medium range and beyond unless burst fired.

[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Glock 18C (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm. The model in-game is not a "C" model.]]
[[Image:BF3BLG18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|G18 Battlelog render.]]
[[Image:Bf3Glock18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Firing the "G18.]]
[[Image:BF3G18reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the Glock 18,note the fire selector.]]

== MEU(SOC) Pistol==

The USMC variant of the [[M1911]], the [[M1911_pistol_series#M45_.2F_MEU.28SOC.29|M-45]], can be used if the player is a Battlefield Veteran or a member of the EA Gun Club. It is a standard M1911A1 with a three-hole trigger, a Springfield slide, commander-style hammer, beavertail grip safety, Pachmayr rubber grips, and uses 8 round magazines. It comes with additional variants that incorporate a Tactical Flashlight or Sound Suppressor. A variant with both aforementioned attachments (named ''M1911 S-TAC'') is available only to DICE employees.

[[File:Silver MEU.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MEU(SOC) Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A player character in multiplayer holds a MEU(SOC) pistol.]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the MEU(SOC) pistol in multiplayer, the player character dumps the empty magazine...]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and lines up a fresh one (that's actually loaded) with the magazine well. Note that the markings and slanted serrations show it is a Springfield made slide.]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A player character aims down the tritium sights of his MEU(SOC) pistol.]]
[[Image:BF3-MEU(SOC)-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A player character vaults over a fence with his MEU(SOC) pistol, appreciative of the fact that he actually has legs in this game.]]

== MP-412 REX ==

The [[MP-412 REX]] revolver returns from ''Bad Company'' and ''Bad Company 2'' as an unlockable sidearm that can only be unlocked by achieving a 5000 Co-Op Score. Unlike in ''Bad Company 2'', the top break cartridge ejector is seen in full effect actually ejecting spent rounds as opposed to "flicking" them out. It is considerably different by having a slightly faster rate of fire and being more effective at close range compared to it's larger .44 cousin.

[[Image:Mp-412-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP-412 REX - .357 Magnum]]
[[Image:BF3 REX.jpg|599px|thumb|none|The player character in multiplayer holds an MP-412 REX.]]
[[Image:Bf3 rex aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the MP-412 REX.]]
[[image:Bf3_MP412_reload_1.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Pictured: the automatic extractor in action. Not pictured: Antigravity field generator.]]

== MP-443 Grach ==

The [[MP-443 Grach]] returns from ''Bad Company 2'' and is the Russian faction's sidearm. In Multiplayer the player unlocks the Tactical Light and Sound Suppressor as they level up instead of by gaining kills with the weapon.

[[Image:MP433Grach.jpg|none|thumb|400px|MP-443 Grach - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:BF3-MP443-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vladimir uses his MP-443 as one of Solomon's men demonstrates how not to steal a car stereo.]]
[[Image:BF3-MP443-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds his MP-443 on Blackburn as he tries to blame everything on a fire extinguisher.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 grach 16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 grach reload 16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Taurus Model 44 ==

The .44 version of the [[Taurus Model 44]], the Model 44, appears as an unlockable sidearm, and can be fitted with a scope. Appears as ".44 Magnum", one of the few weapons in game that does not go by its proper name. In the campaign, the antagonist Solomon uses one as his personal sidearm. In multiplayer, a variant with a PK-A scope is fittingly unlocked at Rank 44.

[[Image:Taurus 44.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Taurus Model 444 with 6" barrel - .44 Magnum]]
[[Image:BF3-Taurus44-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Solomon aims his Taurus Model 44 at Blackburn during the introductory level. Visible in the full-sized image is what appears to be an empty speedloader hovering in mid-air behind the weapon, just above Solomon's wrist.]]
[[Image:BF3-Taurus44-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn soon finds himself getting a closer look at the barrel.]]
[[Image:BF3-Taurus44-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Prior to the start of "Uprising," Solomon is seen aiming his Taurus at an injured Marine.]]
[[Image:Battlefield-3-44magnum-4-620x348.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The ".44 Magnum" being fired.]]

== Dog Tag Weapons ==

A large number of weapons appear on dog tags associated with a similar weapon, weapon of the same family, weapon of the same category, or in a few cases, weapons that make no sense at all. As there are so many, the weapons found '''only''' on dog tags have been placed in their own category at the bottom of each class of weapon. This is to avoid confusion as to which weapons are actually in the game and which ones are only pictures.

[[Image:Battlefield 3 DogTag Pistols.jpg|thumb|none|599px|Dog Tag Pistols.]]
Beretta 92SB Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Beretta 92SB]] / [[Beretta 93R]]<br>
Beretta M9 Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta M9]] / [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta M9]]<br>
Beretta M9 Suppressed Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta M9]] / [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta M9]]<br>
Glock 17 Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Glock#Glock 17|Glock 17 Generation 3]] / [[Glock#Glock 17|Glock 17 Generation 3]]<br>
Glock 18 Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Glock 18|Glock 18 Generation 3]] / [[Glock 18|Glock 18 Generation 3]]<br>
MEU (SOC) Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[M1911A1]] / [[M1911_pistol_series#M45_.2F_MEU.28SOC.29|MEU (SOC)]]<br>
MP-442 REX Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[MP-412 REX]] / [[MP-412 REX]]<br>
MP-443 Grach Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[MP-443 Grach]] / [[MP-443 Grach]]<br>
MP-443 Grach Suppressed Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Makarov_PM#Makarov PB|Makarov PB]] / [[MP-443 Grach]]<br>
Taurus Model 44 Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Taurus Model 44]] / [[Taurus Model 44]]<br>
Handgun Mastery Dog Tag Handgun Medal 1 Time - [[Single Action Army|Single Action Army 1873]]<br>
"toe2toe" Dog tag - [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta M9]] / [[MP-443 Grach]]<br>

= Submachine Guns =

Unlike previous games in the series, SMGs are all-kit unlockables, and not strictly limited to an Engineer/Spec Ops-type class.

== Heckler & Koch MP7A1 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP7|H&K MP7A1]] can be unlocked and used by any kit. It can use either a 20- or 40-round magazine. It must be unlocked in the Co-Op mode, requiring 34,000 Score. It does low damage to enemies, but has a very high rate of fire and manageable recoil to balance it out. An interesting thing to note is that this weapon has separate reload animations for the 20 and 40 round magazines (the 20 round magazine is dropped via the use of gravity, while the 40 round magazine is manually removed). The "reload-from-empty" animation on the MP7 has the player thumb an invisible bolt release, not reaching far enough to tab the lever.

[[Image:MP7 40rdmag.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with Zeiss Z-Point red dot sight and 40-round magazine - 4.6x30mm]]
[[Image:BF3-MP7-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds an MP7A1 with suppressor, EOTech sight and 40-round extended magazine during the mission "Night Shift." Note the BUIS are retained even with an optic added.]]
[[Image:BF3-MP7-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|Blackburn loads a new 40-round magazine into his MP7A1 as he is menaced by a series of incomprehensible graffiti tags.]]
[[Image:BF3-MP7-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The 20-round magazine for the MP7A1 frequently glitches and fails to appear during the campaign; here in "The Great Destroyer" Blackburn reloads one with a large flash suppressor, IRNV scope and laser pointer...]]
[[Image:BF3-MP7-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...whereas earlier he just told his vanilla one to imagine it was full of bullets that were ''this'' big.]]

== Heckler & Koch UMP45 ==

This weapon can be used by all four classes, and has an ammo capacity of 25 + 1. The game correctly depicts the UMP's single / 2 round burst / full auto firing modes.

[[Image:UMP_45.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch UMP45 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Rrt877 ump.jpg|thumb|none|601px|UMP in Multiplayer.]]
[[Image:BF3-UMP-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn reloads his UMP during "The Great Destroyer," wondering why he didn't have it the first time he went through this section. Note the caution on the side of the weapon to read the owner's manual; while this makes some sense on this level where the UMPs are seen in the hands of terrorists, the warning is still present even in "Operation Guillotine" when the UMPs are used by the US military; military UMPs should not have it.]]

== FN P90 TR ==

The FN P90 TR boasts a large ammo capacity at 50 + 1, a high rate of fire, and excellent accuracy at the expense of suffering from low damage at long distance. The weapon is capable of being used by all four classes in multiplayer.
[[Image:FN_P90_Triple_Rail_(TR).jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|FN P90TR - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:BF3-P90-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a P90TR during the mission "Comrades."]]

== PP-19 Bizon-2 ==

The [[Izhmash PP-19 Bizon|PP-19 Bizon-2]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by any kit. The weapon features a slightly inaccurate magazine capacity of 54 rounds (where the real life 9x19mm Parabellum helical magazine has a max capacity of 53), although post-patch the PP-19 is now even more innacurate in that it was a 55 round magazine chambered in the 9x18mm Makarov, although this could very well be for balancing purposes, as DICE may have felt 64 rounds in an SMG would be a tad unfair. Also to note, the PP-19 is the only 9x18mm Makarov weapon in the game.

[[Image:Bizon9x18.jpg|thumb|none|400px|PP-19 Bizon-2 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:BF3-PP19-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PP-19 Bizon-2 on the customise menu.]]
[[file:bf3 bizon idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The PP-19 idle, looking rather ridiculous with a PK-A 3x scope and an enormous flash suppressor.]]
[[file:bf3 bizon reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new magazine]]
[[file:bf3 bizon bolt.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the bolt to chamber a new round]]

== PP-2000 ==

The [[PP-2000]] returns from ''Bad Company 2'', feeling much more realistic this time around, with a more believable firing rate and packing a decent punch per shot, as opposed to the previous game, in which its firing rate was more akin to a Minigun and its power-per-shot around the area of lightly tossing a handful of pebbles at your opponent's face. Comes standard with a 20 round mag, and a 40 round extended mag can be unlocked.

[[Image:Pp-2000 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|PP-2000 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:BF3-PP2000-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds his PP-2000 after completing a HALO jump into Northern Iran at the start of the mission "Kaffarov."]]
[[Image:Bf3 pp-2000 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the PP-2000.]]
[[Image:Bf3 pp-2000 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the PP-2000.]]

== MP5KA4 ==

The [[MP5K|MP5KA4]] is added to BF3 via Close Quarters DLC, called M5K in BF3, comes standard with a 15 round magazine that incorrectly holds 20 rounds. However, the Extended Mags attachment gives it a 30 round magazine with the correct ammo count. Note that in Battlelog, its render is a MP5KN with the fire selector on safe, but in-game it is a MP5KA4 with the fire selector on full-auto. A correct three-round burst mode was added in a patch around the time of release for the "Armored Kill" expansion.

[[image:MP5KA4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP5KA4 - 9x19mm]]
[[file:bf3 m5k idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "M5K" in Battlefield 3.]]
[[file:bf3 m5k reload1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling back the bolt]]
[[file:bf3 m5k reload2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new magazine]]
[[file:bf3 m5k reload3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Performing a HK slap]]

= Shotguns =
For the first time in a main ''Battlefield'' series game (excluding spinoffs like ''[[Battlefield Play4Free]]''), shotguns can be iron-sighted, and like the SMGs, can be used in every kit. In addition, DICE made it so that their shotguns have considerable range, unlike most videogames where you have to see the whites of the enemies' eyes for shotguns to be effective.

== Benelli M1014 ==

The [[Benelli M4 Super 90|Benelli M1014]] features semi-automatic firing and its tactical stock fully extended during gameplay. Magazine capacities available are either the civilian legal 4+1, or the full-length 6+1 (Indicating the use of 3-inch magnum rounds. The full-length tube normally holds seven 2.75-inch rounds). When reloading from empty, the player character loads a round into the chamber first, then fills the tube, and using the extended option will change the model's magazine tube accordingly, just like the 870 MCS. It's unrealistically inaccurate despite having a Cylinder Bore.

[[Image:M4Super90.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Benelli M4 Super 90 with 7-shot tube - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3-M1014-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds an M1014 during the mission "Comrades."]]
[[Image:Rrt877 m1014.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M1014 in MP.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 m1014 reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M1014 in MP, reloading.]]

== Franchi SPAS-12 ==

The [[SPAS-12]] is one of the 10 guns appearing in the Close Quarters expansion pack. Despite having a fire selector, it is limited to pump action for balance reasons. It performs similarly to the 870MCS and has the same standard (4+1) and extended (6+1) capacities, but has a slower per-shell reload speed and each shell contains one less pellet than those of the 870. However, it's offset by a maximum rate of fire that is high enough to the point that the next shot can be fired way before the pump animation can finish, specifically at the brief moment where the action is fully to the rear.

The SPAS is also one of the strangest weapons to appear on a different weapon's Dog Tag; it appears on the Dog Tag awarded for 100 kills with the USAS-12. Other than four capital letters followed by "-12", both being 12-gauge, and that they were both in the [[Battlefield: Bad Company]] series, they have little in common. The Close Quarters DLC, which adds the SPAS-12, still has the USAS-12 displaying a SPAS-12 Dog Tag.

[[File:SPAS12.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Franchi SPAS-12 - 12 gauge]]
[[file:bf3 spas idle.jpg|thumb|600px|none|SPAS-12 idle]]
[[file:bf3 spas iron.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The SPAS-12's iron sights]]
[[file:bf3 spas chamber.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Inserting a new round into the chamber]]
[[file:bf3 spas reload.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Continuing the reload. If you look closely, you can make out part of the word "gauge" on the shell.]]

== M26 MASS ==

The [[M26 MASS]] can be used only in the Assault kit in the "Gadget 1" slot. It may be used either as a standalone weapon, or mounted on any of the assault rifles if said rifle is equipped with the underslung rail. It can fire buckshot, flechettes, FRAG-12 rounds, or slugs, same as the other shotguns. For some odd reason, the AEK-971 and AN-94 cannot mount the M26 MASS despite having underslung rails. A model glitch exists on some weapons that mount the M26 MASS where the charging handle will stay up even when the weapon is not in use.

[[Image:XM26 2 highRes.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M26 MASS - 12 gauge, mounted on [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1 carbine]] with C-More red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:XM26.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Standalone version of M26 MASS - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3 Mass.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M26 standalone.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 mass mounted.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MASS mounted on a M16A3 in MP.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 mass mounted reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MASS mounted on a M16A3 in MP, reloading.]]

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

The [[Pancor Jackhammer]], called the "MK3A1", is included in the Back to Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by any kit. The appearance is highly unrealistic since only two fully automatic prototypes were ever produced; obviously, it does not emulate the real weapon's problems with failing to cycle in fullauto. It feeds from a 6-round magazine or a 12-round extended magazine; the real weapon feeds from a 10-round revolver style cylinder and does not chamber a round to gain a +1 as portrayed in the game.

[[Image:Jackhammer.jpg‎|400px|thumb|none|Pancor Jackhammer - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3-Jackhammer-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jackhammer on the customisation screen. Note the erroneous suppressor attachment that has since been patched out of the Jackhammer's available accessories list.]]
[[Image:Pancor Jackhammer BF3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Pancor Jackhammer idle]]
[[Image:Pancor Mark III A1 BF3 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Pancor Jackhammer reloading]]

== Remington 870 MCS ==

The [[Remington 870|Remington 870 MCS]] appears as the "870MCS". The player pumps the shotgun very quickly, which makes it seem almost semi-automatic in-game, like a pump action combat shotgun should be. Magazine capacities are either the standard 4+1, or the extended 6+1. As with the M1014, when reloading from empty the player character loads a round into the chamber first, then fills the tube, and using the extended option will change the model's magazine tube accordingly.

[[Image:Remington_870MCS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 MCS - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3-MCS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds an 870 MCS with a tactical light during the mission "Uprising."]]
[[Image:BF3-MCS-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of Blackburn's starting weapons in "Operation Guillotine" is this Remington 870 MCS with a laser aiming module. Precisely what this is for when he has his Big Magic White Circle for aiming with is unclear.]]
[[Image:Bf3 870 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the Remington 870 MCS.]]
[[File:Bf3_870MCS_Frag.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Firing a 12 gauge fragmentation round from the 870. It looks impressive and can suppress enemies well, but it does about as much damage as a firecracker without a direct hit.]]
[[File:BF3_chamberload_870mcs_ext_mag.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chamberloading an 870 that has an extended magazine.]]

== Saiga-12K ==

The [[Izhmash Saiga series shotgun|Saiga-12K]] returns from ''Battlefield 2'' and is the second semi-auto shotgun unlocked. Magazine capacities are either the standard 5+1, or an extended 10+1 (originally 8+1, following the maximum factory capacity, changed after the 4th update).

[[Image:Saiga 12k-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Saiga-12K - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:BF3-Saiga-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds a rather beat-up camouflaged Saiga 12K during the mission "Uprising."]]
[[Image:BF3-Saiga-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The mission "Kaffarov" can be a little on the strange side at times; here Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a Saiga 12K fitted with a laser aiming module and PK-AS optic, watching in bemusement as shooting the windshield of a car makes two men who had clipped inside it dramatically leap through the roof. For a finishing touch, the car exploded immediately afterwards.]]
[[Image:BF3-Saiga-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wary of any other weirdness, Dmitri reloads his Saiga 12K.]]

== SWD / Cobray Street Sweeper ==

The [[Armsel_Striker_and_variants#SWD.2FCobray_Street_Sweeper|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper]] is included, identifiable by the winding key on the front of the drum magazine and lack of a rear-mounted drum advance lever. The weapon is referred to as the "DAO-12" in material advertising the game's pre-order rewards, as it was in ''[[Battlefield 2]]''; this stands for "double action only, 12 gauge" and is a ''description'' of the weapon rather than a correct name for it. The name was kept as an homage to ''Battlefield 2''. The weapon has an incorrect capacity of 8-rounds by default, but the correct 12 if the extended magazine attachment is used. This is most likely for balance, so players can't use a semi-auto, 12 round shotgun AND 3 attachments on top of that.
[[Image:CobrayStreetSweeper.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper with short barrel and top folding stock - 12 gauge. Visible is the Cobray logo on the side, no visible drum advance lever like on the Striker and the recognizable 'key' in the front of the drum for winding up the rotary cylinder.]]
[[Image:BF3-Streetsweeper-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a Street Sweeper fitted with a Kobra reflex sight at the start of the mission "Kaffarov."]]
[[Image:Bf3 Cobray Street Sweeper aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the SWD / Cobray Street Sweeper.]]
[[Image:Bf3 Cobray Street Sweeper reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|To reload, the player character tilts the weapon to the side...]]
[[Image:Bf3 Cobray Street Sweeper reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And inserts the shells one at a time via the loading gate. Note "12 GAUGE" and a fragmentation symbol visible on the shells.]]

== USAS-12 ==

The [[USAS-12]] is the only full-auto shotgun in-game, barring Back to Karkand's MK3A1 Jackhammer. The magazine capacity is incorrectly 6+1 by standard or the correct 10+1 with the extended magazines equipped, most likely for balance, same as the Striker. When optics are attached it becomes a WM-12, an American semi-auto clone of the USAS-12, but with a rail instead of the carry handle. Like all shotguns, it can utilise standard Buckshot, Slugs, Flechettes and explosive FRAG-12 rounds as well as fit a variety of accessories and attachments.

[[Image:USAS12.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daewoo USAS-12 with 10-round magazine - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Bf3 usas12 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holds a USAS-12, vowing that nobody will take the last sun lounger from him.]]
[[Image:Bf3 usas12 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the USAS-12.]]
[[Image:BF3-USAS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky reloads his USAS-12, which, according to the trademarks, was made by "Baewoo Brecisions" of Korea.]]
[[Image:Bf3 usas12 reloaded 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After replacing the magazine, the player character pulls on the charging handle.]]
[[Image:Bf3 usas12 world.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Icon and world model for the USAS-12. Note that the world model has no sights and no magazine.]]

== Dog Tag Weapons ==

[[Image:Battlefield 3 DogTag Shotguns.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Dog Tag Shotguns.]]

Benellli M1014 Dog Tag 100/500 kill- [[Benelli M4 Super 90|Benelli M1014]] / [[Benelli M4 Super 90|Benelli M1014]]<br>
Franchi SPAS-12 Dog Tag 100/1000 kill - [[SPAS-12]] / [[SPAS-12]]<br>
M26 MASS Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[M26 MASS]] / [[M26 MASS]]<br>
Pancor Jackhammer Dog tag 100/500 kill - [[Pancor Jackhammer]] / [[Pancor Jackhammer]]<br>
Remington 870 MCS Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Remington 870|Remington 870 MCS]] / [[Remington 870|Remington 870 MCS]]<br>
Saiga 12K Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Izhmash Saiga series shotgun|Saiga-12K]] / [[Izhmash Saiga series shotgun|Saiga-12K]]<br>
SWD / Cobray Street Sweeper Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[Armsel_Striker_and_variants#SWD.2FCobray_Street_Sweeper|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper]] / [[Armsel_Striker_and_variants#SWD.2FCobray_Street_Sweeper|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper]]<br>
USAS-12 Dog Tag 100/500 kill - [[SPAS-12]] / [[USAS-12]]<br>

= Assault Rifles & Battle Rifles =

== 5,56A-91 ==

The [[5,56A-91]] appears as part of the incredibly vague "Compact Assault Rifle" classification, and thus is used by the 'Engineer' kit. It does not have its 40mm grenade launcher. It is the successor to the [[9A-91]] from ''Bad Company 2'', albeit firing the 5.56mm NATO round instead of the 9A-91's 9x39mm one. Called "[[A-91]]" in the game, which refers to the 7.62x39mm variant.

[[Image:A91.jpg|thumb|none|400px|5,56A-91 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-A91-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky looks at fellow GRU agent Vladimir holding a 5,56A-91 as they go to work at the start of "Comrades."]]
[[Image:Rrt877 a-91.jpg|thumb|none|600px|5,56A-91 in MP.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 a-91 reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|5,56A-91 in MP reloading.]]

== AEK-971 ==

The [[AEK-971]] is an unlock for the Assault kit. If the M320 is selected and mounted on the weapon, it will instead be a GP-30, though if set to standalone, will still be an M320. It cannot mount the M26 MASS due to a bug on the Xbox 360 version.

[[Image:aek971_545.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AEK-971 (Current Model) with folding stock - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-AEK-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds an AEK-971 near the start of the mission "Uprising."]]
[[Image:BF3 AEK971.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AEK-971 in Battlefield 3 with Kobra Red dot sight and foregrip attached. Note that because of a glitch, both the indirect flightpath crosshair and the standard crosshair appear when switching rapidly between the grenade launcher and primary weapon. Switching to secondary weapon and back again fixes this issue.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 aek2 reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AEK-917 in MP, reloading.]]

== AK-74M ==

The [[AK-74#AK-74|AK-74M]] has been seen in gameplay trailers. It is the standard assault rifle used by the Russian 'Assault' kit. If the M320 is selected and mounted on the weapon, it will instead be a GP-30, though if set to standalone, will still be an M320.

[[Image:AK-74M.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-74M - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-AK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds an AK-74M equipped with a PSO-1 scope during "Operation Swordbreaker." Weapons on the ground do not show their attachments or have text signifying what they have attached, meaning occasionally picking up a boring-looking vanilla weapon will result in the player character producing Excalibur as here.]]
[[Image:Bf3 ak-74m aim.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the AK-74M.]]
[[Image:Bf3 ak-74m reloading 1.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn reloads his AK-74M; note the tape grip around the magazine.]]
[[Image:Bf3 ak-74m reloading 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After that, he flips the weapon over and pulls on the charging handle.]]
[[Image:Bf3 ak-74m world.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Icon and world model of the AK-74M.]]

== AKS-74U ==

The [[AK-74#AKS-74U|AKS-74U]] has been seen in gameplay trailers. In multiplayer, the AKS-74U, being a carbine, is used by the 'Engineer' kit, and is the starting weapon for Russian Engineers.

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U - 5.45x39mm.]]
[[Image:BF3-AKS-74U-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn wrestles with one of Solomon's men during the introductory mission "Semper Fidelis." On the Xbox 360 version before the Back to Karkand update, this terrorist was instead armed with a UMP45, but still gives Blackburn an AKS-74U when he dies.]]
[[Image:BF3-AKS-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|At the start of the mission "Uprising," Blackburn relieves a PLR soldier of this AKS-74U with a Kobra reflex sight, suppressor and tactical light.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 aks74u reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aks74u in multiplayer, note the milled receiver.]]

== AN-94 ==

The [[AN-94]] returns from the Bad Company series. The AN-94's dual-rate full-auto mode has been correctly featured in Battlefield 3. When set to burst, the weapon fires an 1800RPM 2-round burst, and when set to full auto, it fires the first two shots at 1800RPM, while the rest are fired at 600RPM. If the M320 is selected and mounted on the weapon, it will instead be a GP-30, though if set to standalone, will still be an M320. The AN-94 is unique in that it starts in 2-round burst by default, in contrast to every other weapon in BF3, which all use the most aggressive fire mode available by default, usually full auto. Before a patch, the weapon lacked the semi-automatic mode found on the real weapon, instead featuring only the 2-burst and full-auto modes. One detail that should be noted is that in the single-player campaign, the 2 round burst is shown to incorrectly fire at the 600 rpm as opposed to the correct 1800 rpm, though this may be fixed as the game still contains a handful of bugs. Interesting note about the way the player character reloads the AN-94, he flicks the magazine out with another magazine, the same applies to the AEK-971.

[[Image:Russian AN-94 Abakan Nikonov 5.45x39mm assault rifle 3.jpg|thumb|400px|none|AN-94 Abakan Nikonov - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-AN94-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds an AN-94 equipped with a PKS-07 long-range scope as he looks over an airdropped Russian D-30 122mm howitzer during the mission "Rock and a Hard Place."]]

== AS Val ==
The [[AS Val]] appears as an all kit weapon, most likely due to its small size and unique integrated suppressor, making it too specialized for any specific kit. The March 2012 update added the option of using extended 30-round box magazines (the largest box mag available for the VSS/AS Val/SR-3 rifles) instead of the standard 20-rounders.

[[Image:As val1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AS Val - 9x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-ASVal-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds his starting weapon, an AS Val assault rifle with a Kobra reflex sight, during the mission "Comrades."]]
[[Image:BF3-ASVal-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kiril holds his AS Val near the end of "Comrades."]]

== Colt M4/M4A1 ==

The [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1 Carbine]] is commonly seen in gameplay footage which is also in the hands of the main character. During the alpha stages footage, the in-game M4A1 can be seen fitted with iron sights, EOTech 552 Holographic sight, Trijicon TA01NSN 4x32 ACOG scope, Surefire Universal Weaponlight, AN/PEQ-2 laser designator, Magpul Ranger Plate, and a SOPMOD stock. Two different "reload-from-empty" animations have been seen. The "Fault Line" trailers had the player rack the charging handle, while in the more recent Operation Metro trailer, and the rest since then, the player uses the bolt release. It comes in both the M4A1 (full-auto) and M4 (3-round burst) for use within the game. The standard M4/M4A1 has a KAC RIS handguard, Crane SOPMOD stock, Hogue pistol grip, M16A1 flash hider, and Magpul Ranger Plates. In multiplayer, the M4A1, being a carbine, is used by the 'Engineer' kit, and is the starting weapon for US Engineers.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M4A1 Carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M4-1.jpg‎|602px|thumb|none|Blackburn holds an M4A1 during "Operation Swordbreaker."]]
[[Image:BF3-M4-2.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Blackburn reloads his M4A1. "For law enforcement / military use" is printed on the side of the EOTech optic. Note also the fire selector on semi-auto.]]
[[Image:BF3-M4-3.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Reloading with the rifle in shadow reveals a snake-like design engraved on the mag well; this is present in ''Medal of Honor'', though as a dark shape that shows up in light rather than a silvery etching that only shows up in the dark. Also note that the semi-auto position reads "Fire", meaning it was modeled on a civilian M4 variant.]]

== Colt M16A3/M16A4 ==

The [[M16 rifle series#M16A4 Rifle|M16A4 rifle]] was one of the first weapons to be shown in early gameplay footage, but was lacking rear iron sights and even optical sights because of the alpha stage development; these were added later on. Some later footage showed the M16 with the gas block missing when mounting sights, but this too was corrected in the final release. Both the M16A3 (full-auto) and M16A4 (3-round burst) are available for use within the game. They have [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]] flash hiders, KAC RIS handguards with a rail cover on the right side rail, a Hogue pistol grip, Magpul loops on the magazines, and a cloth sleeve wrapped around the stock. It is the standard assault rifle used by the US 'Assault' kit.

[[Image:M16A4withANPEQ&ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A4 MWS (Modular Weapon System) with RAS rails installed, AN/PEQ-2 IR designator, RIS foregrip, and Trijicon 4x32 ACOG scope - 5.56x45mm. This is the USMC style setup.]]
[[Image:BF3-M16-1.jpg|601px|thumb|none|Blackburn holds his M16A3 during Operation Swordbreaker.]]
[[Image:Bf3 m16a3 aim.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the M16A3.]]
[[Image:BF3-M16-2.jpg|600px|thumb|none|A Marine reloads his M16A3 with a mounted Trijicon ACOG scope in multiplayer. Note that there are actually bullets in the magazine, a relatively rare sight in a modern shooter. But unfortunately, like in most modern shooters, the fire selector is always set to semi-auto.]]
[[Image:Bf3 m16a4 world.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Icon and world model of the M16A3 in Single-Player. (Note that the front sight and gas block are missing, while in the first person model they are present)]]

== DIO KH2002 Sama ==

The Xbox 360 Operation Guillotine gameplay trailer shows a PLR militant using the [[DIO KH2002|DIO KH2002 Sama]] assault rifle. The weapon is a bullpup conversion of the DIO S-5.56 assault rifle, which is a direct copy of the [[M16 rifle series#Norinco Model 311|Norinco CQ]] assault rifle. The KH2002 was put into service in 2004 as a replacement for the Iranian Military's obsolete G3A3. The model featured in the game is the improved Sama model introduced in 2009, as noted by the diagonal cuts on the receiver as opposed to horizontal, side mounted rails and the combination of long carry handle and barrel mounted front sight. The improved foregrip of the Sama model only appears if the Foregrip attachment is used in multiplayer. The in-game model fires 30 rounds form a 20 round STANAG magazine, however.
In campaign mode, the weapon is often found in the hands of Iranian Army soldiers after the PLR's hostile takeover. It fires in single shot and 3-round burst firing modes, and uses Russian optics. It can be unlocked for multiplayer use with a 17,000 co-op score.

[[Image:Kh2002 2009 improved.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Iranian Defense Industries Organization (DIO) KH2002, improved 2009 model - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-KH2002-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds a KH2002 during the mission "Uprising" as he discovers the exit.]]
[[Image:Bf3 kh2002 aim.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the KH2002.]]
[[Image:BF3-KH2002-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn reloads his KH2002, showing that the Khaybar variant used in the game is the 2009 model.]]

== FAMAS Surbaissé ==

A [[FAMAS|FAMAS Surbaissé]] (FAMAS Low Profile) is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Assault kit. The weapon is shown with the large G1 / G2 trigger guard rather than the twin grips this version seems to use. In-game, the FAMAS uses the 25 round straight magazines.

[[Image:FAMASFELIN2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS Surbaissé - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-FAMAS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS Surbaissé on the customisation screen. Note the incorrect 30 round magazine capacity, which has since been patched.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 famas3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 famas3 reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== FN F2000 Tactical ==

The [[FN F2000]] returns from the Bad Company series, and has much more realistic statistics, most notably that it doesn't have a fire rate resembling a minigun. Due to its lack of an underslung rail, an M320 or M26 MASS will always be carried as a standalone if the F2000 is equipped. The F2000 can mount a bipod and foregrip like the other assault rifles.

[[Image:FN_F2000_tactical.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN F2000 Tactical with folding vertical foregrip - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-F2000-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Dmitri Mayakovsky reloads an F2000 with EOTech reflex sight during the mission "Comrades."]]
[[Image:1000px-BF3 F2000 Left Side.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The left side of the F2000 Tactical, note the FN trademarks. ]]
[[Image:1000px-Bf3 2012-07-31 23-56-43-08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The left side of the F2000 with Navy Blue Digital "camoflauge",folding bipod, EOtech sight, and aftermarket flash hider. ]]
[[Image:1000px-BF3 F2000 Iron Sight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The F2000 iron sights.]]
[[Image:1000px-BF3 F2000.jpg|thumb|none|600px| The F2000 Tactical idle. ]]

== FN MK 16 Mod 0 (SCAR-L) ==

The FN MK16 MOD 0, or SCAR-L, is an assault rifle added in the Close Quarters expansion pack and is issued to the Assault kit. It's weaker than its bigger brother the SCAR-H because of its smaller round, but it boasts a higher rate of fire (620 rpm) and extremely controllable recoil. It's unlocked by completing the 'Set us up the Bomb' assignment, which involves killing 20 enemies with an underslung grenade launcher and 15 enemies with hand grenades.

[[file:FN_SCAR-L_(Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|Third Generation FN SCAR-L - 5.56x45mm NATO]][[File:Bf3_cq_SCARL.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The SCAR-L idle]][[File:BF3_cq_SCAR_L_Iron.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The SCAR-L's iron sights]]
[[file:BF3_CQ_SCAR_l_reload.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The SCAR-L's reload. Note the selector switch is incorrectly set on single fire, but the charging handle is correctly in the locked back position since all rounds were expended.]]
[[file:BF3_SCAR_L_bolt.jpg|thumb|600px|none| Pressing the bolt release, which simultaneously sends the charging handle forward with the bolt. The game also correctly animates the reciprocating charging handle when firing the weapon.]]

== FN Mk 17 Mod 0 (SCAR-H CQC) ==

The First Generation FN Mk 17 Mod 0, or [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|SCAR-H CQC]], can be seen in the new Caspian Border gameplay trailer. In multiplayer, the SCAR-H is used by the 'Engineer' kit. A modelling mistakes shows the fire selector switch set on semi-auto as the weapon itself fires on full-auto by default.

[[Image:FN_SCAR_-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|First Gen Fabrique Nationale SCAR-H with M68 Aimpoint scope and Grippod foregrip - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Rrt877 mk17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:BF3-SCAR-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn reloads his SCAR-H at the start of "Operation Guillotine." Note that even though the weapon can fire in full-auto, the fire selector switch is set on semi-auto.]]

== Heckler & Koch G36 ("MG36") ==

A hybrid of the [[Heckler & Koch G36]] and G36C, mislabeled as "MG36" (a weapon with a production run of around 100 units) is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Support kit. The weapon has the full-length forearm and barrel of the G36, but the carry handle of the G36C, as well as having a C-Mag fitted. The C-Mag only holds 50+1 instead of the correct 100+1. While the correct capacity can be obtained using the "Extended Magazines" attachment.

[[Image:G36 CMag.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Configuration typically called "MG36;" actually just a standard G36 with a bipod handguard and C-Mag - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-MG36-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"MG36" on the customization menu. Note the 12x sniper scope attached, in case you feel the need to give suppressive fire from 1000+ meters.]]
[[file:bf3 mg36 idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"MG36" idle, with a Beta C-mag that only holds 50 rounds]]
[[file:bf3 mg36 iron.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"MG36"'s iron sights]]
[[file:bf3 mg36 reload1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a fresh magazine]]
[[file:bf3 mg36 reload2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle]]

== Heckler & Koch G36C ==

A [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36C]] It is seen in single player in the mission "Comrades",it can fire, semi, auto, or two-round burst. In multiplayer, the G36C being a carbine is used by the engineer kit and uses opaque magazines.

[[Image:G36CwForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36C with vertical foregrip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-G36-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a G36C he took from a French police officer during the mission "Comrades." Note that while the fire selector is in the correct position for fully automatic fire, the white position indicator is pointing to "safe."]]

== Heckler & Koch G3A3 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch G3#Heckler & Koch G3|G3A3]] is available in both single and multiplayer. It is an actual H&K G3A3, and not an Iranian clone. It has a wide handguard, and the fire selector markings are S-E-F. The Iranian-manufactured version differs in that it utilizes a slimline handguard and has Farsi writing on the receiver. It can be unlocked for use in multiplayer by gaining 160,000 Co-Op score.

[[File:G3a3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G3A3 with wide handguard - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-G3-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|Blackburn holds a G3A3 with ACOG scope during the mission "Operation Swordbreaker."]]
[[File:BF3-G3A3-Pickup.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The detailed pick-up icon for the G3A3.]]
[[Image:Bf3 g3a3 aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the G3A3.]]
[[Image:Bf3 g3a3 reloading 1.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the G3A3.]]
[[Image:Bf3 g3a3 world.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Icon and world model. Note the slightly mispositioned magazine.]]

== Heckler & Koch HK416 ==

The [[HK416]] returns from Bad Company and Bad Company 2 having a 10.4" barrel and OD furniture. It is the first unlock for the Assault kit and can have an M320 (which replaces the kit's Medkit) mounted as long as a grip or bipod are not. It once again appears as the "M416," seemingly just because that's what it was called in the ''Bad Company'' games since it is no longer shown as a standardised US military weapon in singleplayer. At release, it featured semi-auto, burst, and full-auto modes, something that isn't typically possible with AR-15 type rifles and derivatives. A patch in December of 2011 removed the burst mode for PC, and as of the March 2012 patch, the Xbox 360 and PS3 version's M416 has it removed as well. The BF3 HK416 uses the older M4 Gen II style stock and a Tangodown pistol grip. Newer variants utilize HK's in-house stock and grip designs.

[[Image:Heckler and Koch 416.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 10 inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-HK416-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn runs with his HK416 with M320 grenade launcher, straight into a most unpleasant surprise. The Russian transport craft depicted is an Antonov An-22. The pilot of the Antonov is a big fan of ''[[Top Gun]]'' and is getting as much low-altitude fly-by practice in as he can before the real war starts.]]
[[Image:Bf3 hk416 holding.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A minor modeling error is present in the charging handle: the backside of the handle is completely solid. In reality, you would see a slot with the latch showing through on the left side. This mistake is not present in the M4/M16 models, but is present in the M27 and HK417 (both also HK designs).]]
[[Image:Bf3 hk416 aim.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Iron sights of the HK416.]]
[[Image:Bf3 hk416 reloading 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character reloads his HK416.]]

== Heckler & Koch HK53 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch HK33|HK53]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack as the G53. It was listed in game under its original "HK53" name on the PS3 version until a patch altered it to G53 as used in the PC and X360 versions. It is a compact version of the HK33 rifle, and as a carbine, it can be used by the Engineer kit.

[[Image:H&KHK53-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK53 - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:BF3-HK53-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|HK53 on the customization screen. This is a pre-patch screnshot from the PS3 version]]
[[Image:Rrt877 hk53.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 hk53 reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== L85A2 ==

The [[Enfield L85 rifle series|L85A2]] is included in the Back to Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Assault kit. It features very high accuracy, low recoil and better hip-fire accuracy due to its bullpup configuration but suffers in close quarters due to it's 650 rpm rate of fire. However it cannot mount an underslung M320 like it can in real life.

[[Image:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|none|400px|L85A2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-L85-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|L85A2 on the customisation screen.]]
[[file:bf3 l85 idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|L85A2 idle, fitted with an ACOG sight and a bipod.]]
[[file:bf3 l85 reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Removing the empty magazine.]]
[[file:bf3 l85 bolt.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Moving to press the bolt release.]]

== Magpul PDR ==

The [[Magpul PDR]] appears as an all kit weapon. For unknown reasons, it appears as the "PDW-R"(most likely standing for Personal Defence Weapon-Rifle). Uses either 20 or 30 round polymer magazines, with 20 being the default option.

[[File:MagpulPDR.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Magpul PDR - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-PDR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky reloads his PDR as he ponders the wisdom of Vladimir's "walking into a fire" plan.]]

== QBZ-95B ==

The [[Norinco QB rifle series|QBZ-95B]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and, as a carbine, can be used by the Engineer kit.

[[Image:Qbz-95carb s.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Norinco QBZ-95B - 5.8x42mm]]
[[Image:BF3-QBZ95B-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|QBZ-95B on the customise menu.]]
[[Image:QBZ-95BF3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The QBZ-95B idle .]]
[[Image:QBZ-95RELOADBF3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Removing the spent magazine with a fresh one]]

== SIG SG 553 ==

The [[SIG SG 550|SG 553]] Apperars in Battlefield 3. In multiplayer, being a carbine, is used by the 'Engineer' kit. It can only be unlocked in Co-Op by achieving a score of 120,000. In the campaign mode, the SG 553 is found in two places. The first is in "Comrades", where a police officer exiting the van has one, and the other one being found by the player after the train crashes in "The Great Destroyer".

[[File:SIG SG 553-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG SG 553 with railed handguard, vertical foregrip, flashlight, ACOG and 20-round factory magazine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-SG553-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds a SIG SG 553 during the mission "Comrades" as he fights his way through a French police cordon.]]
[[File:BF3 SG553 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The SG553 being reloaded]]
== Remington ACR ==

The [[Remington ACR|Remington ACR]] joins the arsenal of Battlefield 3 as part of the 'Close Quarters' expansion pack and was first seen in the "Ziba Tower" gameplay video. Inaccurately appears as the "ACW-R" (likely meaning 'Adaptive Combat Weapon - Rifle') much like the "PDW-R". It boasts a high rate of fire with controllable recoil and features a 26 round capacity in a 30 round 5.56mm PMAG magazine. Developers have stated that the "ACW-R" in-game is chambered for 6.5x38mm Grendel, which explains the round capacity. Newer revisions of the Remington ACR have features not reflected in this game model, such as an angled / folding charging handle and an updated lighter-weight rail.

[[File:Bushmasteracrentry.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington ACR - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[file:bf3 acr idle.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The "ACW-R" idle. Note the 26+1 magazine.]]
[[file:bf3 acr reload 1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Removing an empty mag.]]
[[file:bf3 acr reload 2.jpg|thumb|600px|none| And inserting a fresh one. It is a polymer Magpul PMAG instead of the STANAG aluminum magazine.]]
[[file:bf3 acr bolt.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Pressing the bolt release to chamber a new round. A more efficient method would be to use your trigger finger, as the bolt release is ambidextrous. This was most likely done so the player can see the bolt being released.]]
[[File:RussianguywithACR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Russian Engineer fires his "ACW-R," note the 14.5" barrel and the correct AAC Blackout flash hider.]]

== Steyr AUG A3 ==

The [[Steyr AUG A3]] was added in the Close Quarters expansion pack. It serves a similar role to the M416, a stable gun with a steady 700 rpm rate of fire and easy to control recoil. The AUG A3 is unique, as it's the only bullpup assault rifle that can mount an underslung weapon. It was first shown in the "Ziba Tower" gameplay trailer and in pre-release screenshots.

[[File:1.Steyr AUG A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Steyr AUG A3 with Surefire M900 weaponlight foregrip and Leupold CQ/T scope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:BF3wallpaper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The soldier in the foreground can be seen holding an AUGA3 (Note the tri-railed handguard and the placement of the charging handle) fitted with an EOTech 552 and KAC foregrip.]]
[[file:bf3 aug idle.jpg|thumb|600px|none| The AUG A3 idle. Note the underslung M320 grenade launcher.]]
[[file:bf3 aug iron.jpg|thumb|600px|none| The AUG A3's iron sights.]]
[[file:bf3 aug reload.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The AUG A3 mid-reload. Note how the M320 clips through the trigger guard of the AUG.]]
[[file:Bf3_2012-06-06_14-42-49-55.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Pressing the bolt release]]

== MTAR-21 ==

The [[Tavor_TAR-21_rifle_series#IMI_Micro_Tavor_MTAR-21|IMI Micro Tavor (MTAR-21)]] is a carbine added in the Close Quarters expansion pack. It features high recoil due to its short barrel and high rate of fire. In CQB it's capable of mowing down enemies with little trouble due to it's 900 rpm rate of fire, but the recoil severely limits its long range capabilities.

[[file:Mtar-21.jpg|thumb|none|400px|IMI Tavor MTAR-21 with Kimber Mepro red dot sight - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[file:bf3 mtar idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The IMI MTAR-21 idle, fitted with a Trijicon RX01 reflex sight.]]
[[file:bf3 mtar reload1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The MTAR-21 with its magazine removed. Note that since all rounds were expended, the charging handle is correctly shown in the rear position with the bolt locked back.]]
[[file:bf3 mtar reload2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a fresh magazine.]]
[[file:bf3 mtar bolt.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pressing the bolt release, which sends the bolt and charging handle forward.]]

== Dog Tag Weapons ==

=== M16A1 ===

The Dog Tag awarded for 500 kills with the M320/GP-30 shows an [[M203]] mounted to an [[M16A1]], complete with the heatshield handguard.

=== M16A2 ===

The Dog Tag the player recieves for 500 kills with the M16A3/A4 shows an [[M16A2]] instead.

=== FAMAS ===

A [[FAMAS]] (G2?) appears on the Dog Tag awarded for 500 kills with the FAMAS.

=== FN F2000 ===
The standard version of the F2000, with its built in scope, appears on the 500 kill Dog Tag for the F2000 Tactical.
[[Image:Bf3 dogtag fn f2000 GL-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN F2000 + FN GL-1. 100 kill.]]

=== FN Mk 16 Mod 0 (SCAR-L)===

100 Kills with either the SCAR-H carbine or the SCAR-L assault rifle earns the player a SCAR-L dog tag. The release of the Close Quarters DLC (which introduced the SCAR-L) has not brought along a proper dog tag for the SCAR-H.

[[Image:BF3_SCAR_L_dogtag.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=== Heckler & Koch HK416 ===

[[Image:Bf3 dogtag hk416 m203.jpg|thumb|left|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416 + M203. 100 kill.]]
[[Image:Bf3 dogtag hk416.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416. 500 kill.]]

=== SIG SG 553 ===

[[Image:Bf3 dogtag sg 553.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG SG 553. 100 kill.]]

= Machine Guns =

== Heckler & Koch M27 IAR ==

The [[Heckler & Koch HK rifle series#Heckler & Koch M27 IAR|Heckler & Koch M27 IAR]] is the starting weapon for the US support class, and uses a 45-round extended magazine. It is shown with a 4-vent handguard, but the correct extended barrel for the version is shown, the handguard simply covering less of it.

[[Image:H&K M27 IAR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch M27 IAR - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-IAR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds an M27 IAR equipped with a Trijicon RX01 reflex sight and tactical light in the mission "Kaffarov."]]
[[Image:Rrt877 iar.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== LSAT Light Machine Gun ==

The [[LSAT|LSAT Light Machine Gun]] is a light machine gun added to Battlefield 3 through the Close Quarters expansion pack. In-game it uses the configuration that loads polymer-cased ammunition.

[[Image:LSAT.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AAI Corporation LSAT Light Machine Gun with bipod and front and rear sights removed - 5.56x45mm Caseless]]
[[Image:bf3 lsat idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The LSAT LMG in idle]]
[[Image:bf3 lsat iron.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The LSAT LMG's iron sights. The rear sights are modeled after the KAC folding 600m.]]
[[Image:bf3 lsat reload1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle to empty the chamber]]
[[Image:bf3 lsat reload2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Removing the ammo box]]
[[Image:bf3 lsat reload3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Feeding the ammo belt into the chamber]]

== M240B ==

The [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240B]] appears in the hands of some US Marines, and in the hands of the player character, fitted with an EOTech Holographic Weapon Sight (HWS). The trailer shows the weapon as having a deployable bipod which can be used to increase accuracy during prolonged firing, at the cost of player mobility.

[[Image:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240B with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut) - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:BF3-M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of Blackburn's fellow Marines, Montes, holds his M240B fitted with an M145 Machine Gun Optic.]]
[[File:BF3 M240B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer holds an M240B with M145 Machine Gun Optic.]]

== M249E3 Para SAW / Mk 46 Mod 0 Hybrid ==

An [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|M249E3 Para SAW]] is featured in the game. It has a STANAG magazine well, identifying it as an M249 rather than a Mark 46, but the fixed buttstock and rail system are features of the Mk 46 Mod 0. This configuration is typical of Airsoft "Mk 46" guns which have Mk 46 features but retain their STANAG wells.

[[Image:M249ParaWAmmo.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|FN M249 Para - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mk46.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Mk 46 Mod 0 light machine gun - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M249-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds the hybrid SAW near the end of Operation Swordbreaker. Note the STANAG magazine well visible under the belt.]]
[[Image:BF3-SAW-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn sets up the bipod of his SAW.]]

== M60E4 ==

The [[M60E4]] is the last MG to be unlocked in the Support kit. Extended magazines gifts the weapon with a massive 200 round box and this is visually shown on the weapon when attached.

[[Image:M60E4-mk43.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60E4 Mk.43 with Picatinny rails, RIS foregrip, and ammo belt - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-M60-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds an M60E4 with M145 Machine Gun Optic as Kaffarov's bodyguards have the brilliant idea of firing an RPG-7 indoors.]]

== QBB-95 ==

The [[Norinco QB rifle series|QBB-95]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Support kit. It uses 75-round drums, and has the highest capacity of any weapon in the game besides belt-fed LMGs.

[[Image:QBB95Scope.jpg|thumb|none|401px|QBB-95 with 75-round drum magazine and 4x scope - 5.8x42mm]]
[[Image:BF3-QBB95-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|QBB-95 on the customise menu.]]
[[file:bf3 qbb95 idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The QBB-95 fitted with a PKA-S holographic sight.]]
[[file:bf3 qbb95 reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a fresh drum magazine into the QBB-95.]]
[[file:bf3 qbb95 charge.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle.]]

== QJY-88 ==

The [[Norinco QJY-88]] returns from Bad Company 2, once again called the "Type 88". This is quite odd, as the QBZ-95B, QBB-95, and QBU-88 all use their proper "QB" names.

[[Image:Type88gpmg2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Norinco QJY-88 - 5.8x42mm]]
[[Image:BF3-QJY88-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky discovers a QJY-88 with the rare and for some reason unpopular linoleum-plated finish.]]
[[Image:BF3QJY-88.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The QJY-88 idle]]
[[Image:Bf3QJY-88reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Removing the spent belt box]]

== PKP Pecheneg ==

The [[PK_Machine_Gun#PKP_Pecheneg_Machine_Gun|PKP Pecheneg]] appears in the game. It features high stopping power like other 7.62 weapons, and is more accurate than other LMGs, but has a sharp vertical recoil and less than optimal mobility due to its weight.

[[Image:Pecheneg.jpg|thumb|401px|none|PKP Pecheneg machine gun with ammo box - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:BF3-PKP-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds a PKP Pecheneg as he infiltrates someone's garage in "Operation Guillotine."]]
[[Image:BF3-PKP-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovski uses his PKP Pecheneg to make some amendments to the internal layout of a building. Mostly new doors.]]

== RPK ==

The [[RPK light machine gun]] is the starting weapon for the Russian Support class. It is referred to in game as an "[[RPK light machine gun#RPK-74|RPK-74M]]", a modernised 5.45x39mm version with synthetic furnishings and a flash hider, despite that it is not shown with a flash hider. The weapon's damage matches the idea that it is a -74 model, as it is scaled to the 5.56mm machine guns, as opposed to behaving like a 7.62x39. When mounting optics the weapon gains side-mounted bracket for attaching them; if it does not mount optics, the bracket is not present. It can sometimes be found fitted with a vertical front grip attached to the underside of the handguard.

[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn holds an RPK equipped with a Kobra reflex sight during "Uprising."]]
[[Image:BF3-RPK-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn looks down at an RPK on the ground; note the lack of a rail under the handguard. Despite this, it can still mount a RIS foregrip.]]
[[Image:BF3-RPK-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading an RPK fitted with an odd aftermarket bipod; the real RPK bipod is fixed just behind the front sight and folds backwards. This bipod is actually shorter than the magazine and therefore would not be particularly useful.]]

== L86A1 ==

The Enfield L86A1 is an upcoming weapon, being added as a part of the "Close Quarters" map pack. In game it's named the "L86A2" and features a 45+1 magazine, despite being modelled with a 30 round one. Like in [[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]] it's rear foregrip is unused. In game it handles much like the L85A2. It's low rate of fire is balanced by it's low recoil. It comes with a bipod by default.

[[File:SA80-L86A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Enfield L86A1 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[file:bf3 l86a2 idle.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The "L86A2" idle]]
[[file:bf3 l86a2 reload.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Removing an empty magazine]]
[[File:bf3 l86a2 bolt.jpg|thumb|600px|none| Slapping the bolt release to chamber a new round]]

== Dog Tag Weapons ==

=== MG36 ===

Despite the fact that BF3's "MG36" is a hybrid of G36 variants, a configuration correct for an actual MG36 appears on the Dog Tag the player is awarded with for getting 500 kills with it.

= Sniper Rifles =

Unusually, Recon players can opt for low-magnification optics, unmagnified reflex/red-dot sights, or even iron-sights in lieu of the standard high-magnification optics.

== Barrett M98B ==

The [[Barrett M98B|M98B]] is the last bolt action unlocked. It is incredibly accurate and powerful, but is heavy and suffers from substantial sway unless a bipod is used.

[[Image:M98B.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Barrett M98B with Harris bipod - .338 Lapua Magnum]]
[[Image:BF3-98B-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn uses an M98B with the bipod set up as he assaults the bank at the end of "Operation Guillotine."]]

== Barrett M107 ==

The [[Barrett M107]] is confirmed to be in the game, however, DICE felt that the .50 caliber round it uses would either be overpowered if depicted properly, or feel useless if kept balanced, so they opted to simply not have it in multiplayer. It only appears in the singleplayer level "Kaffarov", where player character Dmitri Mayakovsky acquires it due to a somewhat bizarre series of events that don't seem to play out quite the way they were intended to. Here, it is equipped with a thermal scope.

[[Image:Berrett M107.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Barrett M107 long range sniper rifle - .50 BMG.]]
[[Image:BF3-Barrett-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the room ''before'' Dmitri Mayakovsky is actually supposed to get the M107, he acquires the M107 by approaching the door.]]
[[Image:BF3-Barrett-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|On opening the door he finds an enemy sniper kindly carrying the M107 he already has, with the barrel pretending to be a bipod and the magazine very badly wanting to be the pistol grip.]]
[[Image:BF3-SV98-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Thank you, I had no idea why I was carrying that."]]
[[Image:BF3-Barrett-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky thanks the man by murdering him with his own SV-98 and proceeds onward, armed with the M107.]]
[[Image:Bf3 barrett m107 reloaded 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Down by the pool, Dmitri reloads his M107, changing out the magazine...]]
[[Image:Bf3 barrett m107 reloaded 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...Then pulling on the charging handle.]]
[[Image:Bf3 barrett m107 world.jpg|thumb|none|600px|World model of the M107.]]

== Accuracy International AWM-F ==

The [[Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_series#Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_Magnum|Accuracy International AWM-F]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack as the "L96", and can be used by the Recon kit. True to its reputation, the gun is extremely accurate at long ranges, with minimal bullet drop allowing for precise headshots. Its ballistics are modeled after the L96A1's 7.62 NATO chambering rather the the AW Magnum's .338 Lapua.

[[File:AI AW G22.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Accuracy International AWM-F - .300 Winchester Magnum]]
[[Image:BF3-L96-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AWM-F on the customise menu.]]
[[file:bf3 l96 idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "L96" idle with iron sights. Note the Airman camouflage.]]
[[file:bf3 l96 reload 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling back the bolt to empty the chamber]]
[[file:bf3 l96 reload 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a full magazine]]
[[file:bf3 l96 reload 3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pushing the bolt back into place to chamber a new round]]

== MKEK JNG-90 ==

Within numerous shots of the Battlefield 3's Close Quarters: Donya Fortress Trailer, the film shows the player getting kills with the [[MKEK JNG-90]].

[[Image:JNG-90.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MKEK JNG-90 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:bf3 jng idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The MKEK JNG-90 fitted with a Russian PKS-07 scope.]]
[[Image:bf3 jng reload1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling back the bolt]]
[[Image:bf3 jng reload2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Inserting a new magazine]]
[[Image:bf3 jng reload3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pushing the bolt back into place. The JNG-90 seems to use the same reload animation as the L96.]]

== M39 EMR ==

The [[M14 Rifle#M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle|M39 EMR]] is a sniper rifle in the "Recon" class, it is unlocked when the player receives 58,000 Co-Op Score.

[[Image:M-39EMR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle with Harris bipod - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-M39-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dmitri Mayakovsky holds an M39 EMR rather curiously equipped with a Russian PK-AS optic as he looks around Kaffarov's villa. He might be a bad guy, but he sure knows how to keep the place neat.]]
[[Image:Rrt877 ebr reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer simultaneously reloads the M39 EMR and demonstrates that Battlefield 3 does not necessary require you to have a sniper scope on your sniper rifle.]]

== M40A5 ==

The [[Remington Model 700#M40A5 Sniper Rifle|M40A5 sniper rifle]] is the second bolt-action rifle unlocked for the Recon class. It has lower muzzle velocity than the other bolt-action rifles, but benefits from the fastest cycle time between shots and moderately low sway.

[[Image:M40A5.jpg|thumb|none|401px|M40A5 sniper rifle with Harris bipod - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-M40-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds a suppressed M40A5 fitted with an IR scope during the mission "Night Shift."]]

== HK417 ==

The Heckler and Koch [[HK417]] is added in the Close Quarters expansion pack. Much like the HK53 and the HK416, it lacks the 'HK' prefix and is instead called the M417 in game. It's limited to semi-automatic fire in game and features a 20 round magazine. In game it performs as a hybrid of the Mk11/M39/SVD and the SKS. It has the damage of the MK11/M39/SVD with the capacity of the SKS and a rate of fire that's inbetween the two. It has manageable recoil, and comes with a 8x scope by default. It comes correctly equipped with early-production 20-round HK417 magazines, but are colored grayish instead of transparent. This can be easily seen by looking at the magazine while crawling.

[[Image:HK417_20MOD.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch 417 with 20" barrel, Leupold Mark 4 scope, and Harris bipod - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:bf3 m417 idle.jpg|thumb|600px|none| The "M417" idle, equipped with an 8x scope]]
[[Image:bf3 m417 reload1.jpg|thumb|600px|none| The "M417" with it's magazine removed]]
[[Image:bf3 m417 reload2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Inserting a new magazine.]]
[[Image:bf3 m417 bolt.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Slapping the bolt release.]]

== Mk 11 Mod 0 ==

The [[Knight's_Armament_SR-25|Mk 11 Mod 0]] can be found occasionally in the single-player campaign. It is the default rifle for the US Recon kit in multiplayer, outfitted by standard with a 8x rifle scope.

[[Image:SR25.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Knight's Armament SR-25 (known as Mk 11 Mod 0 in USMC and US Navy service) with suppressor and Harris bipod - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-Mod11-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|Blackburn holds a scoped Mk 11 Mod 0 during Operation Swordbreaker.]]
[[Image:BF3-Mk 11-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Marine sniper in multiplayer provides some overwatch with his scoped Mk 11 Mod 0.]]
[[Image:BF3-Mk 11-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|After some successful hunting, he reloads his rifle...]]
[[Image:BF3-Mk 11-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And hits the bolt-release. Note that the fire-selector is set to safe.]]
[[Image:Bf3 mk11 mod 0 world.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Icon and world model for the Mk 11 Mod 0.]]

== Norinco NDM-86 ==

The .308 variant of the [[SVD_Dragunov#Norinco_NDM-86|Norinco NDM-86]] returns from ''[[Battlefield Play4Free]]'', once again appearing as the ''[[SVD]]'' It is default for the Russian Recon Kit sporting a PKS-07 7x Scope by default, though the correct PSO-1 4x scope is the first attachment unlocked at only 10 kills.

[[Image:Ndm86.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Norinco NDM-86 - .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3 NorincoNDM Multi.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer holds an NDM-86 fitted with a PKS-07 scope.]]

== QBU-88 ==

The [[Norinco QB rifle series|QBU-88]] is included in the Back To Karkand expansion pack, and can be used by the Recon kit.

[[Image:Qbu-88-0.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Norinco QBU-88 5.8x42mm]]
[[Image:BF3-QBU88-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The QBU-88 on the customiztion screen, note the game claims to it being chambered in 7.62x54R which has since been patched to show the correct 5.8x42mm ammuntion.]]
[[file:Bf3 Qbu 88 idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The QBU-88 Idle, fitted with a PKS-07 7x scope.]]
[[file:bf3 qbu 88 reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The QBU-88 reloading. Oddly, the empty magazine is slapped out with the players hand. This is similar to the AEK-971/AN-94 reload, and very unusual to witness in first person.]]
[[file:bf3 qbu 88 bolt.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle.]]

== SKS ==

The [[SKS rifle|SKS]] appears in-game, it has synthetic Tapco furniture and uses 20 round magazines. It is a good choice for close range compared to other Recon-class rifles due to it's higher mobility/low weight, 20-round capacity and low recoil, at the cost of less hitting power and range.

[[Image:Sks_tapco_stock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SKS with Tapco furniture installed as it appears ingame - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:BF3-SKS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SKS on the customise menu.]]
[[Image:BF3 SKS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer holds an SKS as he ponders if there might be a tank nearby.]]

== SV-98 ==

The [[SV-98]] returns as the first unlockable bolt action rifle, with the best mobility and close-up performance among bolt-action rifles.

[[Image:SV98.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SV-98 with suppressor, bipod, carrying handle, and mirage band - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:BF3-SV98-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During an extremely confusing QTE, an enemy sniper holds an SV-98.]]
[[Image:BF3 SV98.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SV-98 fitted with the unnamed 12x scope, without a bipod.]]
[[Image:BF3SV98reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Removing the spent magazine.]]
[[Image:Bf3SV-98bolt.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closing the bolt.]]

= Launchers =

== FGM-148 Javelin ==

The [[FGM-148 Javelin|Javelin]] appears and can be used in either top-down or direct-fire modes, and obviously needs a lock to fire. In the campaign, Blackburn uses one during "Operation Guillotine;" here it has infinite ammunition. During the latter sequence, the Javelin is shown firing at absurdly short range; in real life it has a minimum range of around 250 feet.

[[Image:Javalin.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FGM-148 Javelin - 127mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Javelin-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Harassed by tanks during "Operation Guillotine," Blackburn comes across his salvation in the form of an FGM-148 Javelin launcher.]]
[[Image:BF3-Javelin-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds the Javelin. Note the help text misidentifies it as a SMAW.]]

== FIM-92A Stinger ==

The [[FIM-92A Stinger]] appears as the American Engineer's anti-air launcher. A Stinger launcher with an infinite number of reloads is also found in the singleplayer mission "Rock and a Hard Place."

[[Image:-0976t.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FIM-92A Stinger - 70mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Stinger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finding himself under attack from an Su-25 "Frogfoot" ground-attack plane, Blackburn searches the wreckage of an M1161 "Growler" ITV. Thankfully, the Stinger is apparently made of stronger stuff than the light vehicle which exploded with it inside. The weapon resting on its unfolded tracking antenna cannot be good for the launcher.]]
[[Image:BF3-Stinger-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Quickly grabbing the Stinger, Blackburn has one last look in completely the wrong direction...]]
[[Image:BF3-Stinger-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...before sighting up the Su-25 and locking on, struggling not to go blind.]]
[[Image:BF3-Stinger-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Frogfoot, clearly seeing the way things are going, apparently decides to take its own life; while sometimes it will only start smoking after being hit, other times, as here, it will not even wait for the missile to hit it.]]
[[Image:BF3-Stinger-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds another Stinger launcher as the Frogfoot manages one last dramatic flyby. "I regret nothing!"]]

== GP-30 ==

Interestingly, if the M320 is mounted to a Russian weapon, it instead becomes a [[GP-30]]. It is also correctly depicted firing VOG-25 caseless rounds, as the launcher is not flicked downwards to eject the spent casing as is common in first person shooters.

[[Image:Gp-30 ak-74.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GP-30 40mm grenade launcher mounted on an [[AK-74]] (5.45x39mm)]]
[[Image:GP-30BF3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The GP-30 mounted on an newer model AEK-971]]

== Heckler & Koch M320 ==

The [[Heckler & Koch M320]] is the standard grenade launcher and can fire standard HE rounds, buckshot, or smoke rounds. It can either be mounted on the rifle, or standalone.

[[Image:XM320 stock extended.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch M320 with optional telescoping stock - 40x46mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M320-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn holds a standalone M320 at the start of "Operation Guillotine." This appears to be randomly dropped by US infantry in this area.]]
[[Image:BF3-M320-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As usual for an FPS protagonist, Blackburn is of the "pick a random notch and use it like a regular iron sight" school of leaf sight use.]]
[[Image:BF3-M320-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the standalone M320; note the front grip visible and the fire selector always set to safe.]]
[[Image:BF3-M320-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn reloads the M320 mounted under his HK416. Note that here he is removing the "spent" round; there appears to only be one grenade round model, so the fired round is shown unfired.]]

== Pansarskott m/86 ==

The Pansarskott m/86, a Swedish version of the [[M136 AT4]] with a folding front grip, appears in the hands of US Marines. The m/86 only appears in the Singleplayer campaign. It is incorrectly referred to as an "RPG".

[[Image:Pskott86.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Pansarskott m/86, Swedish Army version of the M136 AT4 with folding foregrip - 84mm]]
[[Image:BF3-AT4-3.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn readies a Pansarskott m/86 as the squad try to take out a sniper hidden in a hotel.]]
[[Image:BF3-AT4-2.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|The results are fairly predictable. "Good effect on target!"]]
[[Image:BF3-AT4-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Throughout the campaign, Matkovic carries a Pansarskott m/86 on his back.]]

== M224 Mortar ==

At the start of "Operation Guillotine," Blackburn is tasked with briefly carrying an [[M224 Mortar]] as he advances with his fellow Marines; here it cannot be used by the player, and is used by NPCs to fire illumination rounds during the night-time mission. In multiplayer it can be used by the Support class; the M224 in multiplayer has infinite ammunition and can fire smoke or HE rounds. In singleplayer, it is shown with no baseplate fitted, which would make it practically impossible to actually use.

[[Image:M224-60mm-mortar.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M224 Mortar - 60mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M224-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn looks at the set-up M224, wondering when he can have a go.]]

== Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW ==

The [[Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW]] appears as the American Engineer's unguided rocket launcher.

[[Image:Mk153SMAW.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW - 83mm]]
[[Image:BF3 SMAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player wields the MK 153 SMAW as he prepares to dish out some disproportionate retribution on some tumbleweeds for giving him allergies.]]

== RPG-7V2 ==

The [[RPG-7#RPG-7|RPG-7]] is featured as the Russian Engineer's unguided rocket launcher. It incorrectly shows it as 83 mm, which a PG-VL HEAT is 93 mm.

[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|RPG-7 - 40mm]]
[[Image:BF3-RPG7-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Practically invisible in his well-planned cover position, an Iranian soldier with an RPG-7 plots his next move, apparently oblivious to the 70-ton American tank lurking close by.]]

[[Image:Rrt877 rpg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Rrt877 rpg reloading.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== SA-7 Grail ==

The [[SA-7 Grail]] appears as the Russian Engineer's anti-air launcher, misnamed as an [[SA-18 Grouse]] (Russian: 9K38 Igla). As in the previous ''Battlefield'' games the name is given as "SA-18 Igla", using the US designation, but the Russian nickname.

[[Image:800px-SA-7.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA-7 Grail launcher and missile - 70mm]]
[[Image:BF3BL9K38.jpg|thumb|none|350px|In-game render of the SA-7.]]
[[Image:BF3 SA18 Multi.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holds an SA-7 in multiplayer as he wonders whether a checkpoint office counts as a vehicle.]]

== Dog Tag Weapons ==

=== GL1 ===
The F2000's GL1 appears on the Dog Tag awarded for 100 kills with the F2000, mounted to the rifle.

=== M203 ===
The [[M203]] appears on three Dog Tags. The first is the Dog Tag awarded for 100 kills with the M320/GP-30 where it appears not mounted to anything, the second is the Dog Tag awarded for 500 kills with the M320/GP-30, where it appears mounted to an M16A1, and the third is the Dog Tag awarded for 100 kills with the HK416, mounted to the rifle, just like it was in the ''Bad Company'' series.

= Explosives =

== M15 Anti-Tank mine ==

The [[M15 anti-tank mine|M15 Anti-Tank mine]] can be used by the Engineer kit. In Multiplayer mines that are placed can only be destroyed with explosives, shooting them has no effect, however Explosive FRAG rounds fired from shotguns will detonate the mine. The mine is pressure activated, meaning only something heavy like a vehicle will set it off, infantry running across will not detonate it.

[[Image:Landmine-dod-closeup.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M15 Anti-Tank mine]]
[[Image:BF3 ATMine Multi.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player ponders the idea of putting AT mines inside a tire and rolling them toward a tank. ]]

== M18A1 Claymore ==

[[M18A1 Claymore]] anti-personnel mines can also be used by the Support kit.

[[Image:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine]]

== M67 Hand Grenade ==

The [[M67 hand grenade]] is the primary grenade seen in ''Battlefield 3'', used by all factions. Instead of a grenade indicator, the body of the grenade flashes to make it more easily visible. Three grenades are carried in singleplayer. In multiplayer, every kit gets one as standard, but can equip two by using the "FRAG" specialization. There are two ways to throw grenades; either using a hotkey or by selecting the grenade as a weapon. The hotkey tosses the grenade instantly then switches back to the previously equipped weapon. Selecting the grenade manually allows multiple grenades to be thrown one after the other, and also allows the pin to be pulled and the grenade prepared for tossing - though as the spoon is held down, this does not actually "cook" the grenade's fuse.

[[Image:Baseball.jpg|thumb|none|250px|M67 hand grenade]]
[[Image:BF3-M67-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn readies an M67 grenade.]]

== M84 stun grenade ==

Blackburn uses an [[M84 stun grenade]] to disorient a group of PLR fighters at the bottom of an elevator shaft.

[[Image:M84stun.jpg|thumb|none|M84 stun grenade]]
[[Image:BF3-Flashbang-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn, after managing not to fall to his death while rappelling down an elevator, readies an M84 "flashbang" grenade.]]
[[Image:BF3-Flashbang-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn throws the grenade. This frame and the next both show that, in common with many modern shooters, the thrown model is the same as the "in world" model for this grenade and so the safety lever is still attached.]]

= Mounted Weapons =

== AT-14 Spriggan ==

The [[AT-14 Spriggan]] appears in the game as the Russian counter to the American BGM-71 TOW mentioned below, and is also a secondary weapon on the BMP-2M APC.

[[Image:AT14-Spriggan.JPG|thumb|none|400px|AT-14 Spriggan launcher and missile - 152mm]]

== BGM-71 TOW ==

The [[BGM-71 TOW]] appears in the game as an emplaced anti-tank missile launcher for the US faction.

[[Image:Tow 07.jpg|thumb|none|400px|BGM-71 TOW on M220 tripod - 152mm]]
[[Image:Bf3 GM-71 TOW in Game 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character in multiplayer tracks down a TOW launcher.]]
[[Image:Bf3 GM-71 TOW in Game 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another view of the same launcher.]]

== Browning M2HB ==

The [[Browning M2#Browning M2 Heavy Barrel|Browning M2HB heavy machine gun]] appears in the game mounted on vehicles, including M1A2 Abrams tanks. In terms of gameplay, the M2HB behaves more like a medium machine gun, requiring three or four shots to kill infantry, and dozens to disable a vehicle. In multiplayer, M1 tanks can be fitted with an M2HB mounted above the main cannon. When mounted like this, the M2's rate of fire slows to about 400rpm but gains a damage bonus that puts its power more in line with its real life counterpart. These changes were likely made to keep heavy machine guns from being overly powerful compared to other weapons.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB heavy machine gun in vehicle mount - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:BF3-M2-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|At the end of "Uprising," Blackburn takes control of an M2HB mounted on a Humvee as he defends a landing zone until a V-22 Osprey can extract the scattered Marines.]]
[[Image:BF3-M2-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Near the end of "Thunder Run," Sergeant Jonathan Miller mans his tank's .50 cal. It seems in the game's fiction the US Marine Corps has upgraded their Abrams tanks, since Anvil 3 is an M1A2, currently used only by the US Army. Note the TUSK gunshields for the missing loader's M240 are instead fitted to the M2.]]
[[Image:BF3-M2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A M2HB mounted on M1161 "Growler" ITV.]]

== DShK heavy machine gun (mounting) ==

Mountings for the [[DShK heavy machine gun]] can be seen on Iranian Type-72Z main battle tanks, modernised versions of the Russian T-55. These tanks seem to have been modelled from museum display vehicles, since the gun itself is missing from the mounting.

[[Image:DShKM-vehicle-mount.jpg|thumb|none|400px|DShKM heavy machine gun in standard vehicle mounting on a Romanian TR-85 main battle tank - 12.7x108mm]]
[[Image:BF3-DShK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|An Iranian Type-72Z shows off the DShK it conspicuously does not have. Note the border at the edge of the screenshot is authentic, intended to display the edge of the Abrams' display screen as the vehicle moves around.]]

== GAU-8/A Avenger ==

The [[General Electric GAU-8/A Avenger]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the A-10 Thunderbolt II ground attack jet. The A-10 is not playable during campaign mode, but can be piloted in certain multiplayer maps, wherein the A-10's GAU-8/A is devastating against soft targets caught in the open.

[[Image:GAU-8A.jpg|thumb|400px|none|GAU-8/A Avenger complete with feed system and 1,174 round drum - 30x173mm]]
[[Image:BF3-GAU-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Jennifer Hawkins looks out at an A-10 Thunderbolt II armed with a GAU-8/A during the mission "Going Hunting."]]
[[Image:BF3-GAU-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Later in the mission Hawkins gets to call in gun runs from the A-10, here shown on thermal imaging.]]

== GE M134 Minigun ==

The [[GE M134 Minigun]] is seen mounted on AH-6 Little Birds in both single and multiplayer.

[[Image:M134.JPG|thumb|none|400px|General Electric M134 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-M134-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An AH-6 "Little Bird" opens fire with its M134 minigun. Note that tracers are treated as solid by the engine, meaning the underside of what should be a bright light source is shown in shadow here. This is only really visible in stills.]]

== General Dynamics GAU-17/A ==

Two [[M134_Minigun#General_Dynamics_GAU-17.2FA|GAU-17/A miniguns]] are mounted on the sides of UH-1Y helicopters. More strangely, two are mounted on the windows of Kaffarov's Ka-60 Kasatka helicopter in the singleplayer campaign.

[[Image:GAU-17A HH60.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Dynamics GAU-17/A, US Air Force version of the M134 Minigun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-GAU17-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A GAU-17/A can be seen mounted on Kaffarov's private helicopter as Dmitri Mayakovsky dangles from it. Note it has no ammo feed.]]

== Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-1 ==

The [[Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30#GSh-30-1|Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-1]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the Su-35BM Flanker-E fighter jet.

[[Image:GSH30 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-1 with ammo belt 30mm]]
[[Image:BF3-MiG-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the mission "Going Hunting," Hawkins faces several Su-35BM Flanker-E aircraft, incorrectly referred to throughout as "MiGs." This error is only present in the text in this mission; they are correctly named elsewhere in the game.]]
[[Image:BF3-MiG-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Chased by ''Shark 4-6'', one Su-35BM decides to show off with Pugachev's Cobra manoeuvre...]]
[[Image:BF3-MiG-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...giving Hawkins a nice look at its missile armament.]]

== Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2 ==

The [[Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the Su-25TM (Su-39) Frogfoot ground attack jet.

[[Image:GSh-30-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2 30mm automatic cannon - 30x165mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Frogfoot-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Su-39 Frogfoot ground attack aircraft flies over as Blackburn finds himself between Iraq and a hard place.]]
[[Image:BF3-Frogfoot-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|It soon returns for a series of gun runs as Blackburn has to move from cover to cover to find a Stinger. The Frogfoot here is basically firing a death ray with a deadzone around pieces of cover; moving out of cover is instant death during the time that counts as its attack even if it has already flown overhead and stopped firing.]]

== Kord ==

The [[Kord heavy machine gun]] is mounted on the T-90A tank, Russian army buggies and Vodniks, and a number of technicals. It behaves very similarly to the [[Browning M2#Browning M2 Heavy Barrel|Browning M2HB heavy machine gun]]: more in line with a medium machine gun, and can be mounted on a T-90 with a lowered rate of fire but higher shot-for-shot damage.

[[Image:Kord 02.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Kord heavy machine gun with ammo box - 12.7x108mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Kord-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn looks over a Kord machine gun mounted on a technical.]]
[[Image:BF3-Kord-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|He soon discovers the hard way that manning a Kord during an earthquake is a bad idea.]]
[[Image:BF3-Kord-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A T-90 MBT opens fire with its main gun, the massive muzzle flash illuminating the Commander's Kord heavy machine gun.]]

== M61 Vulcan ==

The [[M61 Vulcan#M61 Vulcan|M61 Vulcan]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the F/A-18E and F/A-18F Super Hornet fighter jets. M61s are also seen in Phalanx installations on American warships, and in multiplayer the US base is protected by a land-based Phalanx C-RAM installation. It should be noted that the game's campaign mode incorrectly shows the Hornets' M61 (and all other weapons, for that matter) as being operated by the back-seater, when in reality the gun is operated by the pilot.

[[Image:M61vulcan.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M61 Vulcan - 20mm]]
[[Image:Phalanx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Phalanx CIWS - 20mm]]
[[Image:C-RAM_3.JPG|thumb|none|401px|Land-based Phalanx C-RAM mounting on a mobile trailer - 20mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|In the mission "Gone Hunting" the player character is Lieutenant Jennifer Hawkins, WSO of an F/A-18F "Super Hornet" callsign ''Shark 4-6'' assigned to CVN-77 USS ''George H.W. Bush''.]]
[[Image:BF3-Phalanx-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hawkins climbs up to the deck of the USS ''George H.W. Bush'', spotting the USS ''Ford'' (FFG-54), an ''Oliver Hazard Perry''-class frigate in the distance. This incorrectly mounts bow and stern Phalanx installations; while a future block upgrade is planned to add a forward gun over the removed SM-1 missile launcher of nine of the ''Perry''-class, this will be a Mk 38 Mod 2 (a remote-controlled navalised [[M242 Bushmaster chaingun]]), not a second Phalanx.]]
[[Image:BF3-M61-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The two Hornets ''Shark 4-2'' and ''Shark 4-6'' overfly the US fleet, giving plenty of glimpses of Phalanx installations on the various ships.]]
[[Image:BF3-C-RAM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close up look at a land-based Phalanx C-RAM in multiplayer.]]

== M197 Vulcan ==

The [[M61 Vulcan#General Dynamics M197 Vulcan|M197 Vulcan]] appears in the game as the secondary armament of the AH-1Z Viper attack helicopter.

[[Image:M197Gatling.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M197 Vulcan - 20mm]]
[[Image:BF3-M197-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Miller looks up at a pair of friendly AH-1Z Vipers during the mission "Thunder Run."]]
[[Image:BF3-M197 Vulcan-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closer look at an AH-1Z Viper's M197 Vulcan cannon.]]

== GAU-12/U ==

The [[General Dynamics GAU-12/U#GAU-12/U|GAU-12/U]] is the main gun on the LAV-AD in multiplayer. It should be noted that the LAV-AD itself is technically anachronistic as it has been removed from service.

[[Image:GAU-12U.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Dynamics GAU-12/U with unfired rounds - 25mm]]
[[Image:BF3-GAU-12U.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A GAU-12/U mounted on an LAV-AD.]]

== GAU-22/A ==

The [[General Dynamics GAU-12/U#GAU-22/A|GAU-22/A]] appears in the game as the secondary weapon of F-35B Lightning II aircraft on some multiplayer maps, such as the revamped version of Gulf of Oman.

[[Image:F-35 GAU-22A.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GAU-22/A - 25mm]]

== M240C ==

The [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240C machine gun]] is coaxially mounted on the M1A2 Abrams MBT.

[[Image:M240C.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240C machine gun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:BF3-M240C-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Miller runs back towards the tank column after retrieving the "clicker" trigger for an M58 Mine Clearing Line Charge.]]

== M242 Bushmaster ==

The [[M242 Bushmaster chaingun]] is the main gun of the LAV-25.

[[Image:M242 25mm gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M242 Bushmaster chaingun - 25mm]]
[[Image:BF3-LAV-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn and his fellow Marines get out of their own LAV-25 and look over someone else's at the start of "Operation Swordbreaker."]]
[[Image:BF3-LAV-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Blackburn looks over another LAV-25 during the mission "Rock and a Hard Place."]]

== Mk 19 Grenade Launcher ==

The [[Mk 19 grenade launcher]] is seen mounted on M1114 Humvees and AAVP7A1 amphibious transports.

[[Image:US_Mk._19_40mm_grenade_machine-gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mk 19 grenade launcher on vehicle mount - 40mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Mk19-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Miller looks over an AAVP7A1, mounting an M2HB and a Mark 19 grenade launcher in the commander's mini-turret.]]

== PKT ==

The [[PK Machine Gun#Kalashnikov PK/PKM Machine Gun|PKT machine gun]] is coaxially mounted on the T-90A and T-72 MBTs.

[[Image:Machine gun PKT.jpg|thumb|none|400px|PKT machine gun with 250-round ammo drum - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:BF3-T72-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Miller gets a little ''too'' close to an Iranian T-72. The coaxial gun on the T-72 is mounted to the right of the main gun; the view is blocked from most angles (including this one) by the searchlight mounted next to it.]]

== Shipunov 2A42 ==

The [[Shipunov 2A42]] appears in the game as the main gun of the BMP-2M and BTR-90 APCs, and the secondary armament of the Mi-28 Havoc helicopter.

[[Image:Shipunov 2A42.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Shipunov 2A42 - 30mm]]
[[Image:BF3-Shipunov-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Blackburn advances on a BMP-2M during "Rock and a Hard Place," the IFV seemingly oblivious to his dastardly rocket-launching ambitions.]]

{{Battlefield Series}}

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:Battlefield]]
[[Category:Swedish Produced/Filmed]]

Talk:Main Page

2012-11-27T06:06:24Z

Alkillmatic: /* Stingball Grenade */

''See [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_1]] for older discussions''

==Unknown Pistol==
Is it a [[SIG-Sauer_P230]], [[Walther PP Pistol Series|Walther PP/PPK]] or [[Bersa Thunder 380]]? -- [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]], 21:34, 26 September 2012 (EST)
:Pretty sure it's a PPK. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:57, 26 October 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Luther Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:Luther Unknown 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Help Identify this sniper rifle==
It's from the movie My Way 2011. A bolt action sniper rifle used by a Chinese guerilla during the Sino-Japanese war, if context helps. I think it might be a PU-type scope, but not sure: [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h41m55s165.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m27s215.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m42s124.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m45s178.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h43m12s144.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h55m51s183.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
:It could be a Chinese [[Mauser_Rifle_Series#Type_Zhongzheng_Rifle|Type Zhongzheng Rifle]] if they are trying to make it reasonably historically accurate, and it also seems to be a match for this but I'm no expert on Mausers so can't say for sure. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:08, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
::Looks about right, although it has a turned-down bolt handle.
:::I assumed this movie was shot in Asia but looking on IMDB, turns out it was actually shot in Latvia making a European gun more likely. Also, it looks like the top handguard doesn't extend beyond the rear sight like it does on most foreign Mauser variants, so I think that would make it a [[Karabiner 98k]], which also has the turned-down bolt handle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

==Thunderheart==

Another movie that is not on this wiki (suprisingly) is the 1992 film "Thunderheart" starring Val Kilmer, the lack of coverage of it is suprising due to the fact it features a prominent actor and a good amount of firearms (2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 19's used by FBI Agents, what appears a Smith & Wesson Model 36 drawn by Kilmer during an attack, as well as M16 or M16A1's that are seen with the old 'Starlight' scopes) in the film. [[User: Czar]]

== Team America: World Police ==

I was surprised to see that this 2004 marionet comedy movie does not appear on IMFDB. Would it be against any IMFDB 'rules' if I created such a page? I watched the movie again over the weekend and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Most guns used by the marionets were indeed somewhat fictional but the creators really seem to have been inspired by real-life guns and I'd love to get started on an IMFDB page for this movie. If nobody objects I will get to work on this. Thanks in advance for your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:02, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:I wouldn't think so; due to the scale of the props, I'm not sure that the weapons would actually be based on actual weapons, just "moulds" of them. I've seen the movie, and I think that they are very generic, so I think that making this page would go against the IMFDb rule of actually identifying weapons. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 15:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The weapons are pretty faithful to real guns. There is at least a Minimi, M134, M4 with 40mm grenade launcher, MP5K (with the stainless steel Navy suppressor), MP5A3, SKS RPG-7 and a few different varieties of AK-47 (identifiable, such as Norinco Type 56 with pig-sticker bayonet and Romanian AIMS). These are just off the top of my head and from a couple of clips on youtube. Even though the guns obviously aren't real I think it deserves a page, as they are all faithful representation of real guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:55, 13 November 2011 (CST)
Thanks for your quick comments, I understand the initial hesitation. However, just check below screenprints and you will see that indeed the makers did their homework, maybe they even checked IMFDB! Commando552's memory serves him right!
[[Image:TeamAmerica-screenshotexample.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I agree that the movie contains a lot of nonsense but I am actually tempted to go ahead, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:11, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:And It will be deleted just like last time as the "Weapons" are just whatever generic 1/6th scale guns the directors could find. they are obviously not real. The page has been deleted before and will most likely be removed again. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:17, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The guns in anime and video games aren't real either. The guns aren't generic from what I can see, can identify them all (more so than some of the guns on pages like [[Crysis 2]]). If mods so no then fair enough, but I think it should have a page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:57, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::: I'm with Commando552 on this one, if it's not eligible because the guns aren't real then all video games and anime should be removed because those guns aren't real they're drawings or digital constructs. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:38, 13 November 2011 (CST)

== New or original gun names? ==

When a gun was originally sold under one name but has since changed, which name should be used? A good example is that right now there are [[LaRue Tactical OSR]] and [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] pages. They are the exact same rifle (OSR image is the standard rifle while OBR is tricked out, both versions are currently shown on the LaRue website as the OBR), LaRue was just forced to change the name due to a copyright problem. In this kind of case, which name should be used? I would have just checked other pages to see what the norm is, but my mind is currently drawing a blank to other guns that have changed their name but remained otherwise the same. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:52, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:Oops... I was the one who made the [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] page. I sincerely thought they were different guns, one a Battle Rifle and the other a Sniper Rifle. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Sortable Tables ==

Zackmann08 had mentioned about modifying our current table format for weapons and actor pages to a version where the boxes are sortable. A sortable template is already made and can be seen on [[Amitabh Bachchan]]'s page (I've now modified it to look a little more like our current table format). This definitely would be beneficial for the gun pages, but I noticed it takes a little bit longer to load and not sure if users will understand what the sortable icon is for. Would like to get thoughts from admins and users on this before a change is completely made. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:18, 16 December 2011 (CST)

:You make a good point about users not knowing what the icon is for. It is in use on wikipedia a lot these days so i think a lot of people are familiar with it and worst case scenario, if they're not then the table is just left in it's default sort. Just my 2 cents on the matter...--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:54, 16 December 2011 (CST)

::It doesn't work with rowspaned tables (like the ones on the [[Heckler & Koch MP5]] page) so it is a one or the other decision. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:28, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::another very good point, but how many rowspan tables are really in use? Other than the MP5 page i dont recall seing any others, though i havent really been looking for them. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:37, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::I've used them a few times, but generally only when there are a number of people from the same show/movie using the same weapon, as I think it looks better than having 10 or so entries with the same title and date in a row. If people decide against the rowspaned tables am happy to get rid of them though, was just my preference. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:50, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::::I feel ya. They are definitely preferable to listing the same thing over and over but if the choice is between that and sortable tables, personally I think the sortable ones are worth losing the rowspan. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:40, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::::I like the idea of sortable tables, especially for long pages like [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta 92F/FS]] or [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. However, I have noticed that currently there's a number of page formats depending on the respective contributor. I may not be so experienced with IMFDB like most of you, but it seems to me that it would make more sense to concentrate on developing a way to create a more uniform page format before we spend time on accepting more 'sexy' features. Pretty much like working on a house and spend time on the roof when the foundations have not been properly laid yet. Take care, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:29, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I totally agree with [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]]. I think what we really need is a single page that we can look at that has a template for everything. A section showing how to make a gun page. A section for actors, section for TV Shows, a section for Movies. That way we all know that this is the page everything should be based off of. This would be far better than saying "look at the M1911 page" because even pages like that have inconsistencies with formatting. The special page could even be put in the toolbar on the left side of the page under "toolbox". That would be amazingly helpful. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:57, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Bunni made a template for gun pages: [[Template:Gun]] That's how a newly created gun page should look like. Of course, the gun specifications sections can be expanded with other stuff, like barrel length (if a gun comes with 2 or more different barrels, like the [[Remington MSR]] for example), country of Origin, Designer and Manufacturer (if it is not in the title of the page, e.g. [[9A-91]]).
:And about the sortable tables: I think it is a bad idea. Why would anyone wanna sort a table on an actor page by the notation or character the actor was playing. Sorting by year is the best option IMHO, on both actor and gun pages. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:37, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:: I can see why you wouldn't want to sort by notation, and character would basically result in sorting by movie, but I can see how you would want to sort by what guns an actor has used instead of just what year. Also, one of the benefits of the sortable tables is that some of the older pages that are NOT sorted can be fixed by simply changing the class="wikitable" to class="sortable". As for the template, it does need to be expanded but we also need to find a way to make sure people know it's there and that all pages should follow it. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:17, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is proving to be a highly educational discussion for me as a rookie IMFDB user. Actually, this is the first time I learn about the template pages, and to be honest I fear I am not the only one. Instead of searching through the website, how about simply displaying links to the template pages everytime somebody clicks the button to create a new page? I am sure this will lead to increased uniformity and substantially lower the barrier for new people to get started on a page. Taking things one step further, how about the following? If somebody indicates to create a brand new page, a question box is displayed asking e.g. to make a choice between movie, actor, gun etc. so that after this choice the relating template pops up? Again, I am not sure if this is feasible but I am quite interested to hear your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:23, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::::I LIKE THIS IDEA!!! We definitely need to make a page that has all the templates listed. Right now its really hard to track down the templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:52, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Search for "<nowiki>Category:Templates</nowiki>" and it will show u all the templates. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:20, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::That helps but still that page needs to be publicized better. It also needs to be better explained. How are [[A-Team, The]] or [[MacGyver]] templates? When I create a new page, I find a good page and I copy the 'wiki code' from it into my new page and then just edit the text. My guess is this is what most people do and I feel like that is what we need. A page with dummy titles, names and guns for people to copy to a new page and work from. Thanks for letting me know about the Template page though. Didn't know that was there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::I think that Zackmann08 is hitting the nail on the head. Building on above comments, how about the following? On the left side of all pages there's the master menu table in blue ('CATEGORIES/SPECIAL/TOOLBOX'). In 'CATEGORIES' one can choose between Movies/Guns/Actors/etc so why not add something simple like 'Templates for New Pages'? If you click that, you'd see just 7 options for new pages; (1) Movie, (2) TV, (3) Anime, (4) Video, (5) Actor, (6) Gun and (7) Others (for whatever else can be 'templated'). Any choice would lead to one single template with dummy info and a short explanation on how to use it. This way an immediate and easy access to the templates will be realized, rather than (I am sorry to say) searching through several menu's in the Toolbox option and finding dozens of random templates. Interested to know what you guys think, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 05:21, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::::This sounds perfect to me! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:41, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:::::So, any volunteers willing and able to start on an addition to "Categories" with "Templates for New pages"? Am not too familiar with such revisions, but do we need authorization from anybody? --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 09:25, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Merry Christmas! ==

[[Image:IMFDB 2011 Christmas Card.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:22, 22 December 2011 (CST)

HAHAHA! I love it!

Merry Christmas guys :) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:05, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Brands Pages ==

I had an interesting idea that I was curious what others thought of. I was thinking it might be helpful to have a page that listed all the guns made by a certain company. For example, a "Smith & Wesson" page that would list all the guns that they have. To clarify, it would only list guns that are on this site. As per the rules this is NOT a gun encyclopedia and gun pages are only on this site if they appear in a movie/tv show/etc. I feel that it could be quite helpful in trying to identify weapons. We could divide the pages into Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Rifles, etc. just like a movie page and set it up as a table perhaps with some of the characteristics listed such as caliber(s), barrel length(s), etc. Would could even have a 'notes' column that list certain characteristics that help to identify it (for example for Taurus 92, "distinguished from the Beretta by its frame-mounted safety").

If this is an idea that people think might be useful, and if an admin will give me approval, I would love to create a trial page for one of the smaller companies. (I'd rather not do S&W to start with if it turns out people don't like it). I could perhaps start with Ruger which has a good number of guns. Please share your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:07, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:Sounds like an interesting plan. Thing is that quite often I see a gun and I have a general idea what brand it could be but then I find myself flipping through many gunpages in the IMFDB hoping that the gun I am looking for has been properly registered under that brand's name. In the case of e.g. Smith & Wesson (to name but a brand...) I can imagine such a page to be very useful. Will be following this discussion, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah it seems like it would be a good idea.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 10:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)

Trial page is up and running! I went ahead and did [[Ruger]]. I threw in a gallery as well. I'm not sure whether it's better have it right after the table or to put it at the bottom of the page or what. Please share all your thoughts on the page! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:23, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I think there is no need for the tables '''and''' galleries. Just simply put the caliber after the gun's name in the gallery. Like: "Ruger LCP - .380 ACP". Sorting gun's by type if definitely good, and seeing the thumbnail of the gun's will really speed up the IDing process (at least for me it will). The whole idea of these pages is great, considering that some guns (mostly Russians) are listed without the manufacturers' names. If more pages like this will spawn, we will need a "Gun Manufacturers" category, or something like that. I definitely support this idea, but the mods will decide. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I completely agree. The only thing is that some of these guns have 5+ calibers which could be cumbersome in the Gallery format... It would be great to have a 'Gun Manufacturers' category. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:25, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I also added the [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]] pages. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:44, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::You could put them in table but have the far right column be a picture (put in <nowiki>[[Image:file_name.jpg|200px]]</nowiki>). Would take up more vertical room than a gallery, but you could then include calibre, magazine size (helpfull for identifying different 5/6 shot cylinder revolvers, and differences between double/single stack handguns for example), year introduced (which would also help with ruling stuff out for IDs in older films/TV) etc. I suppose a notes catagory could also ,be usefull, say if a gun is available in multiple finishes and stuff like that. I think these pages are a good idea, but I think having the specifications section is a bit irrelevent for a company, I would just tag it on the end of "About". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 23 December 2011 (CST)

This is what you mean, Commando?
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Introduced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Remington MSR]]|| .338 Lapua Magnum<br>.338 Norma Magnum<br>.300 Winchester Magnum<br>7.62x51mm NATO || 5, 7, 10|| Late 2000s||[[Image:RemingtonMSR.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[XM2010|Remington XM2010 ESR]]|| .300 Winchester Magnum || 5|| 2010||[[Image:XM2010.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}
You are right BTW, the year and capacity can help a lot in IDing. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:THAT LOOKS AWESOME!!! I am sold... That is how I am doing it. Next question, what do we want to do about variants? For example with the [[FN FAL]] do we also list the [[FN LAR]] on the [[FN Herstal]] page or just the [[FN FAL]] and figure if you are trying to identify the gun you will go to the FN FAL page and look at the variants? Same goes for the [[FN SCAR]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:28, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, that's what I mean. I think this is more usefull than just a gallery, and also it would be a place where sortable tables would definitely be useful, as you could sort the guns by name or chronologically. For a while I've been meaning to do a table of all the Colt AR-15 variants for my own use, but would be good for the Colt page. AR-15s are kind of a special case as their are so many variants that are very similar at first glance, so would include more columns (like upper/lower receiver type, barrel length and profile, bayonet lug, stuff like that) so someone who didn't know much about different variants could sort the columns and work out what a gun is. Regardless if it ends up going on the Colt page, I'm going to make it and put it on my user page to see how it turns out.
::As for different variants I would list them as they can look noticeably different, as is the case with the FAR and the LAR (these are pretty distinctly different weapons, more of a grey area would be listing different FAL variants such as the 50.00, 50.61 and 50.63). With guns like the SCAR, I think the split should just be between the H and the L, not the different barrel lengths. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:43, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:::Fair enough. The other idea that I had was to add an additional column called "variants". This would be great for weapons like the MP5 which all have the same base. Got the idea from this wikipedia page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heckler_%26_Koch_products Heckler and Koch]. Glad to see so many people are taking a liking to this idea. I defiantly want to make it happen. Also, the AR-15 idea is a GREAT one. Perhaps a 1911 page as well. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:56, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::You talking like one page for ALL 1911 variants, or seperate pages for each 1911 company? But then how would we handle, say, an SW1911? Would it be on the S&W page, or the 1911 page? Or both?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:I've continued working on the three trial pages ([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]]). I have noticed that A LOT of these guns are missing the most basic information (no specifications). If anyone is looking for a task, that would be a great one. I will do my part once I get these pages fully up. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)
Loving the idea, I am considering making a SIG-Sauer trial page with the basics only, then going back later and adding in lesser known stuff. But I want to see how these pages come along!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)

'''Please keep in mind that the mods will decide. DO NOT create additional gun manufacturer pages until an approval comes from them. It will be a waste of time if they delete them later.''' - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:26, 24 December 2011 (CST)
::That is why I said wanted to see what happened to these pages first.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:19, 24 December 2011 (CST)
:Another thing that would be great, is if anyone wants to go through the trial pages (([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]], [[Heckler & Koch]] & [[FN Herstal]]) and make sure that each weapon has specifications on its page that would be great. As i was creating these pages I noticed that most of the weapons were lacking the most basic specifications and info. (This could be yet another use for these pages!) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:08, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::We had this discussion in the forum a long time ago, and the consensus was that it was NOT a useful means of classifying weapons on the site. Hence why I deleted the page originally. I'm still not sure it's all that useful. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 08:58, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::::I respectfully disagree. For someone like me who is a still a novice with guns it is exceptionally helpful when identifying weapons. This will be particularly true when it comes to things like the Smith and Wesson revolvers. It is often easy to identify the revolver is a Smith and Wesson but harder to know which model. If there is a single page that list all the Smith and Wesson revolvers it saves us from having to go through page by page. I just find it is so helpful to have one location where you can see a picture and the '''basics''' of the possible weapons. If it is helpful for some of us is it okay to leave these up? I will personally make sure that the pages are done in a professional looking manner and are not sloppily thrown together. I truly believe that (as long as they are done in the proper manner) they can make a fantastic addition to this already awesome website. (ok so that was a bit of kissing up but it's true, this site freaking rocks! :-) ) I'm also using this 'project' as an excuse to update many of these weapons so that their pages are in the correct format with specifications and descriptions.
::::I appreciate that I am still a new guy here and I '''really DO NOT''' want to be that guy who joins and says "nice thing you got going here but you should really change it because I know better." I DO NOT know better, please don't take this in that light. I am merely saying that there are a lot of people who would like to contribute but don't have the knowledge that some of you experts do. I think that this addition would help us novices contribute. I welcome your feedback. Oh, and a Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah to everyone! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:21, 24 December 2011 (CST)

I propose changing 'introduced' to 'produced' and having it be a to and from date. Basically how long the weapon was in productions for. 1995-2005 rather than just 1995 for example. Any thoughts?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Would love to hear some feedback from the admins on this project. I would like to continue with it but don't want to do a bunch of work and then have the pages removed. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:13, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Looks good. I'm a mod here. I really like the Colt page. The S&W page is going to be an intensive piece of labor for you. I agree with bunni. We need a category for these new pages. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:29, 27 December 2011 (CST)

I'm a mod as well and I really like what I'm seeing. This will be a lot of work but I think it will be quite an invaluable resource once it is finished, as long as it is done well. Kudos. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 21:51, 6 January 2012 (CST)

I started the [[SIG-Sauer]] page, and am about 3/4 done. Any help would be appreciated! Oh, and if anyone knows how to change the name of a page I would greatly appreciate for it to be renamed ''SIG-Sauer Inc.''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:33, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:[[SIG-Sauer]] is fine. According to Bunni we are not using "inc" or "LLC" in the page titles. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:34, 16 January 2012 (CST)

::That's fine, I wasn't sure if it was necessary or not.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:19, 16 January 2012 (CST)

== Battle Los Angeles ==

I have a question that I cant seem to get a good bead on, in the movie Battle Los Angeles Aaron Eckhart is seen using an m9 Beretta as his pistol,which I know is the main side arm used by US military forces. However, it was my understanding that the Marines used the 1911 as their sidearm and were the only branch to keep it as the main side arm. Eckhart's character in the movie is a grizzled old vet and had just put in for his 20 at the beginning of the movie meaning that he must have joined back in 1990-1991 and it would make sense to me why he would hold on to something like that. Either way please let me know what you got, thanks NavyBoyd
:For movie-specific discussions, please go to [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Talk:Battle:_Los_Angeles|the associated talk page]].--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 19:57, 23 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Page Templates ==

As part of the 'Gun Brands Pages' project (see above), I am also trying to make sure that each weapon included has specifications listed on its page. I am using the following as my template. If anyone thinks it is missing anything, please let me know. (Note that I made it a subheading with 3 '=' instead of the normal 2 '=' so that it wouldn't be its own category. normally it would just have 2.) I personally don't feel that Muzzle Velocity or effective range are necessary but I am up for input and critique. Just want to make sure I am doing this right! Merry Christmas everyone!
Oh and under FireModes I am including DA,SA,DAO,DA/SA if applicable. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:38, 25 December 2011 (CST)
<br><br><-- start template-->
===Specifications===
(year - year)

* '''Type:''' Handgun/Revolver/Submachine Gun/Sniper Rifle/etc.

* '''Caliber(s):'''

* '''Weight:''' lb ( kg) (empty)

* '''Length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Barrel length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Capacity:'''

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto/Full-Auto (950rounds/min)

-----
<--end template-->
:Another question that one of the veterans can help me out with. With guns that have Variations ([[Heckler & Koch P2000]] or [[Heckler & Koch USP]] for example), should each subcategory have its own specifications with the different length, capacity, etc. For example should the [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] have just one specifications section for the page or should there be one for the H&K P2000 and one for the H&K P2000SK. (This is the way I did the page but I want to make sure that this is ok. If I'm supposed to just do one section I will gladly correct it.) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 25 December 2011 (CST)

== I can't create a new thread in the forum ==

I logged into the forum and tried to create a new thread, but I get a message that says I don't have permission to access the page. I'm using a different username than I have used before, so is my account "awaiting activation?"--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 11:06, 1 January 2012 (CST)
:I had the same problem a few days ago. You want to talk to [[User:Bunni|Bunni]]. He'll fix it for ya. Happy new year. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:28, 1 January 2012 (CST)
::Thanks for your help. I followed your advice and left a message for Bunni over a week ago but he hasn't yet responded. Has he not been around lately?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 10:12, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== I think it's time to end the silencer/suppressor debate ==

I see this a lot, people correct other people "It's a suppressor, not a silencer. It doesn't silence the gun" and I think it really needs to stop. Way back in 1910, the first silencer was patented by Hiram Maxim as the '''SILENCER'''. Way back then, they weren't even that good compared to today's because the technology has been advanced on yet they were still called silencers. Them having the name silencer is just a name, after all there is a model of the Ithaca 37 called "Deer Slayer". It's a inanimate object which cannot slay deer. It can be used to kill deer however but the name doesn't fit it unless it operated on it's own to shoot deer. There are some people named Rose or Diamond but they aren't a flower or an expensive jewel. My point is with this is that it's just a name. Even today, the BATFE calls them silencers on the paper work and many companies that make them call them silencers. There is even a company called SilencerCO.

The reason why a lot of people call them suppressor is because in the 1970s the magazine, Soldier of Fortune, started calling them suppressors and giving the reason that I stated in the first sentence. Most people that I've seen that actually own them call them silencers and they have most likely done their research on them.

In conclusion, calling them silencers is not wrong and neither is calling them suppressors. You call them either and you're right. It's when you claim that silencer is the improper term. Silencer is just a name, it's the way it is.
--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:20, 9 January 2012 (CST)

: I personally prefer "suppressor", it's a nice, ''woody'', sort of word. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 13:51, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:: Yes, "silencer" is a name, but it's a misnomer. "Silencer" suggests absolutely no sound is produced when a shot is fired; "Suppressor" properly states that the sound will be muffled instead of completely silenced. It's the same as saying bullet-resistant instead of bulletproof. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 17:52, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::I don't see anyone complaining that their shotgun doesn't kill deer on it's own. IT'S A NAME and it's correct. .223 fires a .224 caliber bullet, are you going to complain about that too?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:37, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::::I agree. I think "Suppressor" sounds more accurate and professional. If it were a silencer, there would be little or no sound at all, which unless you use a suppressed .22 with half loads and a plastic bottle, is impossible, and even THAT makes a sound. I say we go with Suppressor.--[[User:Scattergun]]

:::::While "Silencer" is correct in general terms, the term "suppressor" is preferred largely because of the Hollywood concept of the "magic silencer" that literally makes a gunshot into the sound of a kitten sneezing. The "suppressor" term was coined to give a more realistic idea of what the device actually does; it suppresses the sound, it doesn't silence it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:05, 14 January 2012 (CST)

== NCIS: LA gun change? ==

The latest episode of NCIS: LA "Exit Strategy" the guns don't see to be the normal Sig 228s. The guns are still Sigs, but with rails, and Deeks was not carrying his normal Beretta. Deeks' weapon may have been the same S&W used in the episode "Empty Quiver". -Tucker

== Single or Double-Stack 1911? ==

Which is a better 1911 variant to have? A single stack or a double stack magazine. I heard somewhere that a 14-shot 1911 is more prone to jamming but I'm not sure. The reason is I am currently writing a script for an independent movie that me and my class will make and I have access to all kinds of guns, both blank-adapted and Japanese flash cap versions, and the main character is to carry a 1911 .45 and I was wondering what the more professional choice would be to carry.
:Personally I would go for a Kimber Custom II TLE or a Springfield Armoury TRP, both are single stackers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:58, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== Novel guns? ==

I know this may seem like a stupid idea, but should we include guns that feature in books? I have several books in my bookcase that go into great detail about guns, albeit sometimes they call sub-machine guns machine guns for some reason. (Seriously, how can you mix it up?) I'm new here, please go easy, but please give it some thought. They could either be on the book cover or featured in print inside. I know it would be pointless to include a screenshot of the text, but there are some pages on IMFDB that are just lists of guns and pictures of the guns themselves.
Alasdair

:Check out the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page. It will help set your straight. Good thing for new users to read (I found this out the hard way just a few weeks ago when I joined). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:35, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Ah, I see. Thanks. Alasdair.

== Manufacturer Pages ==

With more people starting to work on Manufacturer Pages, I'm working on making a template for the pages ([[Manufacturer Template]]). I am going to add a link to it from the <nowiki>[[Category:Manufacturer]]</nowiki> page. I figure this will help to make sure that they all stay consistent. (Note: not all of the pages that I have already made conform to the standards that I listed on the template, I will be fixing that in the next few days.) My goal is to make sure that these pages look professional and are useful! If anyone, particularly admins, has things that would like to add to the pages or to correct with future pages, please edit the template accordingly. Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:41, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Glock Manufacturer's Page ==

I was getting ready to make the Glock page for the new Manufacturers category and ran into a small problem. The new page would ideally be called ''Glock'' but that is already taken by the [[Glock]] page which has all their guns. I definitely think this page would be helpful (at least I know it would I'd find it useful) as it will help you decide whether you are looking at a G17 or a G21. I welcome any and all ideas and suggestions. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:54, 19 January 2012 (CST)
:The actual company is trademarked in all capitals as GLOCK so you could do that. Either that or you could put "manufacturer" in brackets after it, or make this the one exception where you put on the crap after the name, in this case "Ges.m.b.H.". If not that, I don't think a manufacturer page is as important for Glocks as other brands, as they are all already on the same page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:05, 19 January 2012 (CST)
::All good ideas. I'll prolly just go with (manufacturer). I agree that its not as important but it could still be super useful. I think I'm going to add a 'frame' column like we did with the S&W revolvers. This time it will have "Compact" "Standard", "SubCompact", etc.. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:29, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Taurus ==

I am in the process of redoing all the [[Taurus]] gun pages. Giving them all specifications, converting to wiki-table, etc. If there are any Taurus aficionados in the house who are willing and able to fill in the information that I am having trouble finding (mainly production dates), that would be great! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:15, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Beretta ==

I'm in the process of making the [[Beretta]] page. My understanding is that for Semi-Automatic pistols we DO NOT include "Model" in the page title, [[Beretta 418]] for example. There are a few pages that are not consistent with this pattern. Just want to make sure that they are all named correctly and follow the same rules. Could an admin look into this? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Proper name for CZ ==

It has been brought to my attention that the new Manufacturer page for [[CZ]] may not be properly named. The full name of the manufacturer is "Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod". I am hesistant to use this name for a couple reasons. 1) Its kind of a pain to type on a 'standard' keyboard. 2) Most people (I THINK) know the company as "CZ". One possible compromise I'm considering is renaming the page "CZ (Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod) and having "CZ" redirect there. I would love to hear some thoughts on the matter. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:45, 25 January 2012 (CST)
:I would use the full name with a redirect, but if you are calling it CZUB rather than Česká zbrojovka, that would exclude at least a couple of guns, such as the vz. 24 which was made by Československá zbrojovka Brno. I'm no expert on CZ, but it was my understanding that any words after the "Česká zbrojovka" part were just different factories, or is this wrong? While talking about proper names for gun pages, what should the page be called if the manufacturer has changed its name or merged? For example, when I made the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]] page I used the original name rather than Royal Ordnance. However I was going to make a Denel Land Systems page, which was originally called Lyttleton Engineering Works, but the Denel name is much more commonly known so didn't know what to use. Any suggestions for a general rule on this sort of thing? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:23, 25 January 2012 (CST)
::I think we definitely need a [[CZ]] expert to take a look at this page... Any volunteers??? As for the different names, first and foremost, whatever the page ends up being, there should be redirects form all the others. So for example [[Royal Ordnance]] should redirect to the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]]. Also, whatever the final name of the page ends up being, there should be a short explanation about the fact that it is "Also Known As ______" or "Formally Known As ____". As for a general rule, while I think it would be best to go with what the company is most commonly known as, in the end, that is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think the rule of thumb should be to go with what the company is currently known as (use the company website?) and have other names redirect there. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
::As a side note, while talking about redirect, I'm also trying to set up redirects for these pages that will help newcomers when searching the site. For example, if you search S&W now, instead of getting a page listing all the times that that the letters 'S' and 'W' appear on a page, you are now taken to the [[Smith & Wesson]] page. Just food for thought. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:36, 25 January 2012 (CST)
what exactly do you want to know about the CZ? I grew up in czechoslovakia, we used to carry these handguns in the army.

==A question about a bolt ==

Off-topic, but could anyone ID this bolt? http://www.forgottenweapons.com/mystery-bolt
Thanks, a relatively new and inexperienced user.

==Site Policy On 'Made Up' Weapons==
Could someone please clarify the site's policy on guns fabricated for films and videogames? I've edited articles on the Killzone games in the past only to have the articles taken down altogether because the guns featured aren't real. Now I'd accept that as fair enough, except other articles (e.g. [[Alien: Resurrection]] and [[Perfect Dark]]) deal with non-existent weapons at some length and nobody complains, even though some of the weapons they describe feature far ''less'' in common with real guns than the Killzone games' weapons did; at least many of those featured parts that were readily identifiable as belonging to real-world weapons. By deleting one and sparing the others, you're creating something of a double standard--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 09:56, 31 January 2012 (CST)

== Gun Title Template ==

Is there any way to get rid of the '''<nowiki><br clear=all></nowiki>''' that results from using the Gun Title template? I noticed that it can cause some problems when the gun in question has multiple images as there will be a bunch of white space before the list of occurrences. For an example of what I mean look at [[Smith & Wesson Model 610]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:14, 1 February 2012 (CST)

== Gangster Squad ==

Since I can't create a thread in the forum I decided to post this here.

The upcoming movie Gangster Squad will be released this year, and someone managed to record scenes being filmed, then posted the videos on Youtube. A couple of the videos feature shootouts.

This first one shows the "Gangster Squad" involved in a firefight and has a lot of M1 Thompson action:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlUBrd0uTc&feature=endscreen&NR=1 Gangster Squad 1]

The second video shows what I'm assuming are gangster-types, which is shot too far away to make positive ID's on all the weapons, but I think I know what most of them are. Two of them are using the usual Thompsons, but the guy kneeling between the cars seems to have a Sten, judging by the way he's holding it. There's another guy firing an smg, which due to the way he's holding it and it's rate of fire, I think is either an MP-40 or M-3. It's impossible to tell because he's obscured by a car. I'm pretty sure the guy up in the building is using a Lewis Gun.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xf0iEgtzBw&feature=related Gangster Squad 2]

I love these period crime movies, and this one looks really promising. What I'm seeing in these videos suggests there will be some great shootouts in this movie, and I just hope that's what we actually get in the final cut--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 09:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

== How do i add upload an image here? ==

I have gun to add, how do i add an image of it?

Also, how do i create a user page for myself?

Sorry if i am in the wrong section. If so, then please guide me to the right section.

:Look to the left; under Toolbox is upload file. To edit your user page, go to the top of the screen, where it has your username, followed by My Talk, My Preferences, ect. Click your username (red means there is nothing there yet).--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:38, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Fictional Airsoft Guns ==

Just noticed that on the [[Milkor MGL]] page there is an entry for the [[Milkor_MGL#CAW_40mm_Grenade_Launcher|CAW 40mm Grenade Launcher]], an airsoft grenade launcher. It seems random that it is on this page as it is a fictional design that shares basically nothing with the Milkor. Are there many other fictional airsoft variants that appear in stuff (only one I can think of off the top of my head is that weird AKS-74U variant that is in Call of Duty), if so is it worth creating a page for fictional airsoft guns that do not have a real world equivalent? I previously made a similar page for [[Blank Fire Only Guns]] that are not based on any specific live fire weapon, would be like that. Anyone have any thoughts on this? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:56, 7 February 2012 (CST)

- Personally, I think if it resembles the weapon, even if its fictional, it should share the page at the bottom. After all, the Bruni 1911 and the Bruni Python aren't real guns but they share a page with their real world Colt counterparts. At least thats how I feel about it. -[[User:Scattergun]]

:That is different to what I am talking about though. The very reason that the two guns you mentioned are where they are (at the bottom of the live fire equivalent page) rather than on the blank fire page is that they are clearly based on real world guns. The Bruni Olympic 6 however isn't based on any particular real world design and is just a generic revolver, hence it being on the blank fire page. My idea was that airsoft guns that are not based on any particular gun, such as the grenade launcher I mentioned above, could be put on one page for ID and listing purposes. My question really was are there enough "unique", for lack of a better term, airsoft guns around to make a page like this worth it? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:10, 7 February 2012 (CST)

== Naming conventions for SIG guns ==

Now that I have finished the S&W pages, I am moving on to revamping the SIG Sauer pages. I wanted to get feedback, particularly from admins, about the consisten disagreement about SIG vs SIG Sauer vs SIG-Sauer and see if we could come to a consensus. Some of the page have the full '''SIG-Sauer''' in the title ([[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] & [[SIG-Sauer P230]]) while other simply have '''SIG''' ([[SIG P210]] & [[SIG SG 540]]). If for no other reason than to make sure that FUTURE pages are done correctly, which is the proper format? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:49, 9 February 2012 (CST)
:It's not a matter of shorthand, the correct title depends on the firearm in question. The pistols with SIG-Sauer as the title were made by SIG-Sauer Inc., while the ones with SIG as the title were made by SIG independently, not with Sauer. Generally, the older guns (P210 & 510) are made by SIG only or Swiss Arms (which refers to themselves as SIG), while newer guns are SIG-Sauer. What I suppose I'm trying to say is that the titles are accurate as-is. As to whether the admins want SIG-Sauer or SIG Sauer is beyond me, although as they are two companies joined together I'm pretty sure there would be a hyphen.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:27, 9 February 2012 (CST)
::OOOOOHHHHHHHHH!! That makes so much more sense.... I never actually realized that SIG and Sauer were 2 separate companies that merged. Thank you SO much for that explanation!
::Given that, disregard my initial question! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 00:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
:::Having said that, I still think all of the page that say "SIG-Sauer" should get rid of the hyphen and say "SIG Sauer", as this is how both the Swiss/German and American companies spell it. If there is an actual reason for adding in a hyphen then fair enough, but has always seemed a bit random to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
Taken directly from the [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] page: ''NOTE: In the past, some IMFDB users have mis-spelled "SIG-Sauer" as "Sig Sauer". "Sig Sauer" is not the correct spelling; "SIG" is an acronym for Swiss Industrial Society ("Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft " in German), and thus, all three letters should be capitalized. Also, it is preferred that IMFDB users put a hyphen between "SIG" and "Sauer".''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:23, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:I've seen the message that putting the hyphen in is the preferred method on imfdb, but I don't understand why this is. As I said, neither the US or swiss/german companies use the hyphen so why do we? If it is a formatting reason or something technical that I don't understand then fair enough, but otherwise I think it should be deleted. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:09, 12 February 2012 (CST)
::I have to agree with Commando here... Both Wikipedia and http://www.sigsauer.com/ list it as '''SIG Sauer'''. Why was the decision made to include the Hyphen here? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:36, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Television wikitable ==

Up until now I have been using the following table for any pages that I convert from list format to table format:
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' / "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
I was considering modifying this to give '''Episode''' its own column. I wanted to see what people thought of this idea...
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Episode(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' || "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
Any feedback is appreciated. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 01:26, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:I've been combining the episode and note columns. I think I picked that up from Ben. That always made sense for me because episode info or notes are sometimes missing or unnecessary, while Show Title is ALWAYS present. I've always tried to supply episode info, and it could get a little tight when it's in there with the show name. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 01:42, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Sako vs SAKO ==

I want to come to another consensus here... Is it SAKO or Sako? I.E. [[SAKO 85 Hunter]] vs [[Sako TRG-21]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:40, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:It's an acronym (Suojeluskuntain Ase- ja Konepaja Oy), which would suggest all caps. If you go to the US website, the page is titled "SAKO Finland." Strangely enough, if you go to the "Company" link, they refer to themselves as just "Sako." --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:36, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Companies w/ one single product ==

I have always wondered, what about those companies that have only one single product, like AMSD, Rafael, DRS Precisions,... (I am sure there is more) Can they have a Manufacturer page or not? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:53, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:Can they? Yes... Should they? No... Just my humble opinion... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:49, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Featured Articles ==

Question for our admins regarding the featured articles on the main page. What is the process for becoming a featured article? I know that for obvious reasons (preventing vandalism, etc.) the [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] is locked, but is there a way for us non-admins to suggest new articles? Could we perhaps set something up whereby non-admins could post an addition in the discussion page for [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] and if an admin approves of the addition, it could then be added into the mix? I really do love the random articles that pop up on the front page but as a very frequent visitor, seeing the same images over and over starts to get a little boring... Even just changing the images for a given "Featured Article" would be nice. For example, keeping [[The Unit]] (one of the best articles on the site) as a featured article but choosing 2 different images to be displayed. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:34, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Wannabe Indie game dev has some questions ==

I'm looking into making a simple target range simulator, most likely in a software like Unity3d or Coppercube which i have experience in. I am however unsure if entire realism is a good or possibly bad move, not only for game-play, but also because I feel it wouldn't have that... special feeling of a video game, when you play a role playing game for example, they all have their own mood. Pokemon is not Final Fantasy is not The Elder Scrolls. My main concern is how all target range simulator's I've played always go graphics realism, but the shooting mechanics tend to be surreal. This makes it not very fun for many people, people who like goals in their games get to set high scores, but not much else. People who possess firearm knowledge are easily ticked off by the fact that it is trying to be real, but lacks true realism due to all sorts of game-play errors. So while this may seem far fetched, my idea is simple. Mix a realistic (game-play) target range with surreal and almost child-like simple 3d graphics and a basic plot. For those familiar with the concepts in Pokemon, the player character has two primary goals, to collect info on all the monsters, and to defeat all the gym leaders and then the elite four. Target ranges would be like gyms, each has people who you can challenge to accuracy, fastest shot, and other contests of skill. While traveling from range to range, you can collect more firearms, not in grass, but from vendors and helping people with small side-quests, etc. I doubt this kind of a game would receive much, if any audience, particularly being that it's too serious and gun-friendly in content for most children (or more specifically, their parents) to buy, and it's far too childish in graphics for Adults. It's a happy middle where it's a game i would personally love to play, and hopefully so would a few others out there somewhere. All in all, I think a target range and competition based collection RPG with a heavy emphasis on gameplay and fun while still maintaining key aspects of gun culture would be a unique game. (things like policing your brass to be reused with powder and appropriate caliber bullets as a cheaper way to procure and load ammunition, maybe even allowing you to tweak the amount of powder that way). It's hard to explain the whole concept as I haven't nailed every little thing down yet. I was planning on starting the project on a smaller scale, then slowly adding more. So is this a good idea or am i barking up the wrong tree? I'd love to do full realism, but I honestly want the game to be atleast partially fun or stylized. (I am not looking for help making this game, I merely want feedback on the ideas) (I also hope I did not break anything by posting this, I am unfamiliar with wiki editing, and I am relying on your guides.) --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 12:31, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:First thing: please post "I am not a bot" after this message before you post anything else on this wiki. Your message seems a little...out of place, and I want to check it's not automated spam. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:44, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Not a bot, Sorry for any confusion based on the ludicrous idea and my unusual name choice. I couldn't find any other place where i could... Oh. you have a forum. How did i miss that? Sorry. Seems so obvious now that it's glaring at me on the left. And now I forgot to sign. --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:07, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Email confirmed on forums, but now Posting Rules: You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts... Whaaa? --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:12, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:::Unfortunately the automatic approvals don't work for some reason, you'll need to leave a message on [[User:Bunni]]'s talk page to get approved. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:06, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== Top Shot ==

For all you [[Top Shot]] fans, we have a new viewer of IMFDB. I just got re-tweeted by Colby Donaldson... He's checking out the page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:16, 22 February 2012 (CST)
:Haha, that's great!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:18, 22 February 2012 (CST)

== SOCOM 4 ==
Anyone agree it would would a great idea to add Socom 4 with the other SOCOM games in the video game category?--[[User:Commandoninja137|Commandoninja137]] 21:28, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== CSI ==

I am in the process of trying to redo the [[CSI]] pages. There are a LOT of guns used in these series. I feel like they deserve as much attention as the [[NCIS]] pages which are awesome at the moment. If anyone has any of the seasons on DVD and is interested in helping that would be awesome. I just finished [[CSI: NY - Season 7]] and am preparing to do season 6. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:46, 24 February 2012 (CST)

== New "Current" template ==

So we already have a number of awesome templates for labeling pages. The '''Upcoming''' template for stuff that hasn't been released yet. The '''Work in Progress''' template for pages that someone is currently working on. Anyone have any thoughts on making a new template for pages that are currently being updated? For example, the current season of [[NCIS]] or the current season of [[Hawaii Five-0]]. There not exactly "upcoming" because the upcoming template specifically says "all images are from trailers" and they aren't exactly a work in progress... Just a thought. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:20, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== New category: "Containing Unidentified Firearm"? ==

I was just wondering if it would make sense to create a new category "Containing Unidentified Firearm" for movies that contain a gun that cannot be identified by the page creator. This way, anybody (like me...) who gets a kick out of identifying a gun that other people could not, can very efficiently assist others to complete pages. If you guys think it's a good idea, any suggestions how to create/promote this category? Thanks for any comments, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:43, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was thinking about that just last night... I think its a GREAT idea! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:32, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::Great! Could you advise on the following; (1) what would be a good name? (2) how to create that category? and (3) how can I get other users to start using the category? Look forward to hear from you, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:49, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I would advise talking to a few admins before doing anything else. We wanna get feedback from them before proceeding. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:38, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::::A good name for this category might be "Movies with unidentified guns" or "Featuring unknown weapons" or something like that. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:16, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::I agree that something like this would be a good idea. Something to bear in mind though, there are a lot of pages with unidentified guns on this site, most of the time because they are only seen partially, briefly, from a distance or in poor lighting, or just due to the fact that they may be "generic" looking (I bet there are a hell of a lot of pages on here that say "unidentified revolver"). With most of these guns it will be impossible to get a firm ID so the tag will remain there forever, meaning that if someone wanted to try and be helpful and ID a few guns 99% of them would be a vaguely pistol shaped shadow (if it was a chronological list this would be less of a problem but categories are alphabetised). I think a better solution might be to have a discussion page somewhere where people can post caps of unidentified guns they have found whilst building pages, adding the new unidentified gun at the top of the page. This way you would be able to periodically purge the guns that are unidentifiable (e.g. speck in the distance) and would allow discussion between people to help ID the guns. I think it would also be a more successful way of getting unknown guns identified, as if you are good at IDing guns you can just watch this hypothetical page and see whenever a new unidentified gun crops up, as opposed to with a category where you don't know (as for as I know) when something has been added to it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
Commando makes a good point. I propose a middle ground. There is a difference between "'''I''' cannot identify this gun" and "this gun cannot be identified". A gun that is only seen for a split second may not be identifiable and may simply be called an "unknown" revolver/pistol/etc. Pages that have those types of guns would NOT fall under this category. On the other hand, if you are working on a page and dont know what some of the guns are, you can add the tag and that will be a clue to some of our more experienced members to swoop in and help out. I'm in the process of capping all 20+ seasons of the 3 [[CSI]]s and there are a LOT of guns (particularly revolvers) that I can't identify but from time to time senior members come in and identify them. It would be great to tag these pages until either a) all guns are identified or b) a determination is made that 1 or more guns simply cannot be identified from the images provided. Basically I look at this as a variation of the WorkInProcess template. The page is done, all guns are uploaded, but not everything has been identified. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:56, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:Check out the template... [[Template:Unidentified]] --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:44, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::As long as it was only used for guns that could be identified if you knew what they were rather than guns you don't see properly it would probably be helpful. Still, would be nice if there was some way of doing it chronologically so you could see when a new thing with unidentified guns is added. Just throwing it out there, here is another possible image to use for the unidentified guns template. I think it looks more like a question mark and is actually made from real weapons (a Korobov TKB-022 and a No. 74 sticky bomb). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:06, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::[[File:Question mark 2.jpg|thumb|50px|none|]]
:::AWWW but i spent so much time making that quesiton mark just right!!! Grrr... Yorus is better tho... :-p --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:29, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
I like the idea and the templates, but rather than make it too complicated trying to get the question mark perfect, what if we just put a gun overlaying a simple, perfectly recognizable question mark. I like the idea of making the gun into a question mark, but I really have to look in order to see it on those. If I had any idea how to make one, I would.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:59, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:I don't mind if the question mark gun thing isn't used, in fact a regular blacked out background photo of a gun would be better as would be more in keeping with the other templates, but what is the perfect "unknown" gun that the majority of people cannot identify? [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Gun_Cylon_stunt.jpg This]? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::We could use something like that, or what about a blurry outline of a gun in front of a question mark? I think that the question mark makes the template identifiable, rather than just the words 'Unidentified Firearm' across the middle.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I like [[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]]'s idea. We definatly want to keep the question mark up there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:05, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Since the majority of unidentified guns I've seen are revolvers, why not make it a S&W Model 27 or a Colt Official Police (or some other revolver... I dislike the idea of using a weird gun for some reason). Maybe make it a Vz 58? It looks like an AK to the untrained eye, and would be mistaken for such if not for the people on this website. Inside joke, huh? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:24, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Thanks for all your input, what a short post from me a week ago can cause hahaha I like the 'Unidentified' logo and I have put it on top all movies where somebody else may be able to identify a gun I could not, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 13:19, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

== Infoboxes. ==

I am interested in trying to get the [[Template:Infobox Movie|Movie Infobox]] more widely used on the site. I think that ''if it is done well'' it could be very useful on the pages. One of the best features of wikipedia (IMHO) is the infoboxes which give you the basic information at a glace without needing to search the page. I would love some input from people, particularly the admins, regarding how best to make these infoboxes better. I want to make sure that the information they list is useful and valid, not just text filler and puff. Post your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:51, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

== The idea to change the page ==

The idea to change the page. An example of the new page. The rest of the site will have a basic table.

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>MP40 Gallery</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=450px perrow=2>
Image:MP40.jpg|MP40 - 9x19mm
Image:MP40Side.jpg|MP40 submachine gun - 9x19mm
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=== Specifications ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-
<div style="text-align=center">
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Category'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="650"|'''Data'''
|-
|'''Place of origin || Nazi Germany
|-
|'''Production''' || 1940 - 1944
|-
|'''Manufacturer''' || [[Erma Werke]]
|-
|'''Caliber''' || 9mm
|-
|'''Cartridge''' || 9x19mm Parabellum
|-
|'''Weight''' || 4 kg (8.82 lb)
|-
|'''Length''' || 833 mm (32.8 in) stock extended / 630 mm (24.8 in) stock folded
|-
|'''Barrel length''' || 251 mm (9.9 in)
|-
|'''Rate of fire''' || 500 rounds/min
|-
|'''Effective range''' || 70 m
|-
|'''Feed system''' || 32-round detachable box magazine / 64-round with dual magazines
|}

Do you like someone, such a proposal? It should be applied to each side of the gun?--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 14:51, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

This is an example of the new layout. It is more clear and transparent. You can change the way every weapon in the service. >>[[MG81]]<< How do you like it? --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 16:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:This new format has not been approved and please change your entry in the [[MG81]] into the correct format already established. Please place your suggestion for a change in the [[Talk:MG81|MG81 Discussion]] page. Unfortunately this table is too big and would make the gun pages too cluttered. We also have many different pictures of guns that don't have both sides photographed. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 19:06, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== New idea to help identify guns ==

So a while ago I started the Manufacturer pages as a way to help identify guns. I had another idea that I wanted to try on for size with people. Recently, I was working on [[CSI: Miami - Season 9]] and came across a submachine gun that I didn't recognize. I immediately went to the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page but was forced to go through every link trying to find the one that I was looking for.

What do you guys think of adding a gallery of some sort to the Category pages that shows the BASIC models of the guns included? When I say basic I mean that we wouldn't need an image of the MAC-10, MAC-11 and Cobray M11/9. Seeing the basic MAC-10 would be enough to direct you to the MAC-10 page where you can figure out whether the gun you are looking at is in fact a MAC-10 or one of the other variants. Similarly, an image of any one of the MP5s would suffice, we wouldn't need images of each of the variants.

If I can get the okay from at least one admin, I would love to try this out on the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page and see what you all think. :-)
(Note that I also posted this in the forum).

--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:19, 17 March 2012 (CDT)

:YOU MUST IMPLEMENT THIS ON ALL THE WEAPON CATEGORY PAGES. Sorry about the caps lock, this is just such an awesome idea, and it turned out so well on the submachine gun page. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 18:40, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::HAHAHAHA!!!! I'm glad you liked it. Give a few days, lets get some more reaction but I agree with you, particularly since it doesn't involve creating a new page, its just taking advantage of a page that already exist. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:43, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

Another thing that could reduce the time looking at gun images is the creation of new gun categories, like "Pocket Pistol", "Light Machine Gun", "Civilian Rifle", "IAR" and stuff like this. This could help filter the guns more. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 18:02, 19 March 2012 (CDT)
:I like that idea. Take a look at how I did the [[Sniper Rifles]] page. I split it up by Bolt Action, Semi-Auto and other. I was thinking of doing the same thing when I do the files section with an additional category for Lever action. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:33, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

One thing that I am defiantly going to need help with is making sure that these tables stay updated. If and when new guns are added to the site, we need to make sure that they get added to the appropriate tables. If you guys can help me keep an eye on the "Recently Added Pages" section that would be great! Also, I just finished the [[Shotguns]] section. I wasn't sure what to do about the [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]]s page so for now I just left it out of the gallery. Input is welcome! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:04, 20 March 2012 (CDT)
:Maybe you should add a "Dual-Mode" section to the list and place the SPAS-12, SPAS-15, and Benelli M3 there. (Or list them in both pump and semi sections) And semi-auto and full-auto SGs should be separated. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:18, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

::Don't want to over complicate things by adding more categories than are necessary. I did put the SPAS-12 in both but I didnt realized that the SPAS-15 and Benelli M3 also fit under both sections. As for the Submachine Guns, there aren't many that are semi-auto only so let's keep them all together. Plus, that is not a main identifying feature since many "Semi-Auto Only" guns are converted for a movie. The point is to help identify the guns. The fact that a shotgun is Pump-Action vs Semi-Auto is very obvious during a movie and will help in identifying the gun. Also, with the exception of dual mode shotguns such as the SPAS-12, these guns can't be converted (at least not the same way an armorer can convert a semi-auto gun to full-auto). In other words, you will never see a semi-auto [[Ithaca 37]] but you could see a full-auto [[Steyr SPP]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:00, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

I'm in the process of working on the handguns section. I am going to need a LOT of feedback on this and will warn you ahead of time that it is going to be VERY cluttered when it is first uploaded. I think I am up to 5 categories at the moment: Compact, Standard, Long, Target and Other. I may split the "compact" into Pocket and Compact but we'll see what it looks like when I'm done. I'm just doing the code in notepad for the moment so that I can upload it in one move instead of in drips and drabs. Keep the feedback coming! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:27, 22 March 2012 (CDT)
:Just completed the [[pistols]] page. I would love some help checking it. I'm sure there are AT LEAST a few typos. I'm sure i mislabeled an image or something so any help is welcome! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:21, 22 March 2012 (CDT)

I propose to add a bookmark with additions to the weapons. Accessories such as scopes, grenade launchers, flashlight. This is to be a gallery through which everyone will be able to recognize included in addition to weapons. All containers in one gallery.--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 05:18, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Guns selected for TV and Movies are not realistic ==

This is a great database and I salute the creators and contributors. But looking through the handguns used in TV and movies, they don't represent what real criminals would be using. In real life we'd see criminals with a lot of Hi-Points; Tauruses; Bersas etc not SIGs;H&K;Kimber;Sphinx;Walther and other expensive handguns. I don't know who is making the selection of handguns for TV and movies but I laugh every time I see a two bit hood in a show who is holding a pricey pistol when in real life he'd probably be carrying some cheap gun with no serial number so he can later ditch it or sell it. Whether it's the prop master or director or producer or if there are kick backs in some way I don't know but it would be nice to see mainly police procedurals use guns that real perps would use.

Again this is not a criticism of the database, you just report what firearms appeared in a series or film. Keep up the good work ![[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Actually, it's been determined that criminals prefer to use the best guns they can get their hands on (usually illegally). This means that while a criminal could go buy some Raven Arms piece of shit, they'll probably just break into somebody's home, look for a gun safe, and hope they get lucky with what's inside. Besides, if you're going to commit a crime with a gun, why buy one and get your name in the system at all? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 04:37, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

Last data I saw was most illegal weapons were not acquired by theft but on the black market, originally purchased through straw purchases. Forensics labs see all types of guns that are used in crimes, not just top of the line ones. Guns used in crimes often disappear, I don't see most criminals carrying expensive ones that will disappear or get resold after a crime. I'm just pointing out that the handguns in TV and movies are beautiful but if the producers are aiming for realism the weapons don't match the streets.[[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:I read an ATF report from a few years ago that stated that the most common pistols used in illegal activity were S&W revolvers and automatics, Ruger automatics, and cheap things like Raven Arms, Lorcin and Bryco automatics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:02, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== P226 Beavertail ==

I am attempting to ID a pistol that is used in multiple seasons of [[CSI: Miami]] ([[CSI:_Miami_-_Season_6#Unknown_SIG-Sauer|Shown Here]]). It seems that it might be a discontinued variant of a [[SIG-Sauer P226]] known as a "P226 Beavertail". Has anyone heard of such a gun? Better yet, anyone have a picture of such a gun?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:54, 7 April 2012 (CDT)
:I already posted this on the talk page for CSI Miami, but I might as well post it here too. The picture on SIG's website under the P220 Beavertail is actually a P226 Beavertail, evidenced by the double stack bulges and P226 written on the grips and slide.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:10, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

==Need some help==

I changed the skin for IMFDB to a different skin... and only afterwards realized the there was no way to change it back. Also, the majority of the links and buttons normally present (including discussion page links) are gone. I can't even access my user account to change it back. Can anybody help me out (such as by providing me with a link to the preferences page so I can change the skin back)? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 01:43, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

==Charles Askins Jr. "Unrepentant Sinner"==

'''I'm sure that several of you know who Charles Askins was. He was controversial and he still is thirteen years after his death. Here is something I found that Massad Ayoob wrote about Askins in 1999. Of course Ayoob is controversial in his own right.'''

''American Handgunner, Nov-Dec, 1999 by Massad Ayoob

The death of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. last year closed a hell-for-leather life that lasted nine decades. He was a national pistol champion, one of the first winners of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award and a big game hunter with an impressive collection of trophies from all over the world. He aggressively sought out maximum action in his careers, first as a lawman and then as a soldier.

He was also a stone cold killer. For those of us who knew him, there was just no gentler way to put it.

Charlie's contemporary, Bill Jordan, once said that killing your first man is the hardest and after that it gets easier, but for a certain kind of man, it can get too easy. Some thought old Bill was talking about Charlie. Not without reason did Askins title his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner.Any future history of 20th century gunfighters will have to devote a substantial chapter to Cal. Askins. The son of a prominent hunter and gunwriter, Junior followed in Senior's footprints and left some marks deeper than his dad.

Charles Askins, Jr. killed dozens of men, both in war and on the streets. When asked for an official body count, the Colonel replied, "Twenty-seven, not counting [blacks] and Mexicans."

Askins was bright, thoughtful and without fear, but he had a darker side. The man's prejudices spoke for themselves. Charlie once confessed to a friend that he thought he was a psychopathic killer, and that he hunted animals so avidly because he wasn't allowed to hunt men anymore.He was sometimes too willing to kill. A reading of Unrepentant Sinner shows confessions to murder and manslaughter. Yet among the many Askins gunfights, there were also acts of heroism, shootouts against the odds that he won with his coolness under fire and his deadly marksmanship.

He spent a lot of his life teaching assorted Good Guys to win firefights, and when the Final Ledger is tallied, one hopes that is taken into account on the credit side.

Askins learned early that a rifle or shotgun always beats a sidearm when trouble is in the offing. His favorites included the lever action Savage Model 99 in caliber .250/3000. For close work, he was partial to the Remington Model 11, a clone of the Browning 12 gauge Automatic-5, with an extended magazine. Night sights not yet being available, he tied a white bandage around the muzzle to index the weapon in the dark.

Askins put the speed of fire to good use. He wrote of one shootout in east El Paso, where he employed a Winchester .351 semiautomatic carbine:

"One night at the foot of Piedras Street, which runs slapbang into Cordoba Island, a team of Patrol officers watched a gang of smugglers scramble out of the willows in the river bottom and pile their load of liquor into an old Hudson sedan.

"Then the cargadores turned and raced nimbly for the protection of the Mex side of the line. Three cholos piled into the old car and commenced to drive away. The BP vehicle pulled up beside the runner's vehicle and with guns drawn, we motioned the driver to halt."The Hudson came to a stop just as I set foot on the ground. The officer who was in the rear seat also alighted. The driver of the gov't vehicle threw the door open on the left side and hit the ground. He stepped down just as a gunman sitting beside the driver of the old Hudson swung a Model 94 carbine behind the driver's head and let go at the Patrol officer in front.

"He was struck in the head by the .38/55 bullet and fell dead. The bullet broke up in his skull and a major fragment exited and by a strange coincidence struck the patrolman alighting from the back seat in the head. It did not kill him, but knocked him unconscious.

"Thus in the space of two heartbeats and with only a single round, the contrabandista had knocked out two patrolmen and had only myself to contend with.

"I ran round behind the smuggler's car and opened fire. I shot the gunman through the eye, the bullet exiting through his temple. I kept right on firing and shot the driver through the kidneys. He later died. A third smuggler in the back seat cautiously poked a sixshooter up over the back seat and got shot through the hand for his pains.

"By this time I was busy reloading. The gunman, despite the fact that he had a bullet through his right eye which had passed out through his temple, managed to pull the driver from beneath the wheel and with him out of the way, got in the driver's seat and drove the old sedan for a couple of blocks down the street where he crashed it into a tree.

"The Border Patrol in those days, as I have said, had no radio communication. I cranked up the old patrol car, after loading the dead and wounded, and got to a telephone and called Patrol headquarters. Before the night was done the trio, the dead and wounded, were all rounded up. It had been a big evening. I did not feel much regrets over the loss of the patrolman. I had never liked him much anyway. The second lad, who had picked up a jacket fragment, was not seriously hurt."

On another night, Askins used the Remington autoloading shotgun, loaded with the 00 buckshot he called "blue whistlers." He recounted:

"They came out of the shadows and, as it was brightest moonlight, I could see every manjack had a long gun in his hands. We let them get up to within nine paces of us and I fired the first shot.

"I had the old Remington with its 9shot magazine and I knocked down the first two rannies in as many shots. I then switched my attention to the other three who did not like the heat. They ran back into Mexico, a distance of about 60 yards and opened fire.

"An interesting facet of this little exchange was that the lobo in the lead had an old Smith & Wesson .44 Russian. Despite the fact that he had a load of my 00 buckshot through his middle and one of the boys had hit him spang on the breastbone with a .351 slug, he dropped to his knees behind a cottonwood sapling and kept right on shooting.

"The .44 Russian is a single-action and this bravo had to thumb the hammer back for each shot. He got off three rounds before a second charge of my buckshot ended his career,

"Quite as interesting, really, was the second gunman who had a Westley Richards 10 gauge loaded with Winchester High Speed #5 shot. We had killed him before he could touch off either barrel. A most happy circumstance since the distance between both parties was only nine steps. I have the Westley Richards today, a memento of lively times long past."

Today, Johnnie Cochran would be hired by the families of the deceased to sue Charlie and the whole Border Patrol for opening fire on the heavily armed gang without warning. Yet doing as they did undoubtedly saved multiple Patrolmen from being killed or maimed. As the saying goes, "Things were different then."

Weapon retention is the art and science of retaining control of your firearm when a criminal tries to disarm you and turn your firearm against you. Plan A is to execute a technique and peel the offender off the gun. If that can't be achieved, Plan B is to shoot him.

There wasn't much in the way of gun retention techniques in Charlie's time, and Plan B was his Plan A. He made it work more than once. He recounted the following in our American Handgunner Annual in 1988:

"I got to my feet and made a run at this coyote and just as I reached him, I tripped and fell down. This bastardo, as quick as a cat , grabbed my gun, which I had drawn, and standing over me commenced to tussle enthusiastically to get it away.

"I had no illusions as to what he'd do if he succeeded. He had thoughtfully wrapped his hands around the cylinder and while I had my finger on the trigger I could not fire the weapon because he would not permit the cylinder to turn.

"Very energetically I rolled up on my shoulders and kicked this sonofabitch in the belly. It broke him loose from my pistol. He wasted no time. He ran for the river which was only 30 steps away. I saw him very clearly against all the lights of Juarez and I let him run until he was in the Old Rio Grande up to his knees.

"I held the gold bead front sight in the white-outlined rear notch and put the gold right in his back just at the belt line. On the shot he pitched forward as though spanked with a baseball bat.

"Three days later the BP Chief told me, 'They dragged a dead Mex out of the river of the Socorro Headgates yesterday. The U.S. Consul in Juarez told me.' I didn't say anything. I wasn't any too proud of the fact that I had stumbled and the wetback had almost killed me with my own gun. (A customized Colt New Service .44-40.)"

The colonel continued, in the same issue of the magazine:

"One chill evening, it was January 1931, we jumped out a big gang of smugglers in the Standpipes district. We halted them on the levee and I ran up to the bunch and some bravo reached out and caught the old Remington by the muzzle and gave it a hell of a jerk. He aimed to catch me by surprise and get my gun, which you may be sure he'd have reversed in a twinkling and given me a dose of those big 00 pellets.

"He jerked on the muzzle and I jerked on the forestock and the pistol grip. As I gave the gun a hell of a tug, I pulled the trigger. The charge of buckshot got this coyote right through the left eye. The force lifted him completely off his feet and pitched him some four to five feet off the levee. The back of his head was quite a mess.

"I reckon I was just too impetuous in those days, for it wasn't three months later until we ran up on another gang of freebooters, this time near the Nichols Packing Plant. I got too close to the leader and he grabbed my gun muzzle and tried to whip it out of my hands. He jerked in his direction and I jerked in mine-- and I pulled the trigger.

"The nine big slugs took him right above the knee. The City-County Hospital took his leg off the next morning. The worthless scoundrel had syphilis and the last I heard the amputation would not heal. I reckon it sorta put an end to his river hopping."

Charlie's actions in the two shotgun grabs would almost certainly be ruled justifiable even today. The shooting of the fleeing man who had grabbed his Colt revolver unsuccessfully, however, would probably be seen as excessive force in light of the Supreme Court's mid-'80s Garner decision.

Askins had no patience with suspects who grabbed police guns. One of his partners was pistol-whipped almost to death by a hobo who had disarmed him of his Colt 1917 .45 revolver. The patrolman had already sustained multiple skull fractures and brain damage from the clubbed revolver when Askins stopped the assault.

At a distance of 10 paces, he killed the assailant with three shots in the chest, double-action, from his pet .4440 New Service 4" with D.W. King sights, the weapon the previously mentioned suspect tried to take from him near Juarez.

When he was actively in the field, Askins seems to have almost always fired the sidearm one-handed. In his later years he would enthusiastically recommend two-handed positions for defense, but he was not an early advocate of the concept.

It would appear that in most of his shootings, Askins aimed rather than pointed. He practiced a good deal, drawing and firing from the point-shooter's crouch position, but practiced more with a sight picture at arm's length for the matches.

He wrote that during one 10 year period, he logged 334,000 practice shots. Though in some articles late in his career he had good things to say about point-shooting, I can find mention of only two such incidents in his personal reminiscences of gunfights.

One was a mistaken identity shooting in which he exchanged shots in an alley with a rifle-armed U.S. Customs agent. The distance was 10 yards. The man with the rifle fired twice and missed both times. Askins also fired twice; one shot missed, and one struck the other man's rifle stock.

He point-fired because he had to: his gun that night was a Colt New Service .45 sixgun, its barrel chopped to two inches with no front sight.

He would write later, "To say that I took a ribbing was an understatement compared to the comments over firing two shots at another feller at 30 feet, down a narrow alley, and missing him. It was a disgrace which took a long time to live down!"

Charlie later mentioned that he had point-shot without a specific sight picture when he shot the man who was pistol-whipping his brother officer. Reading Askins' own account, he seems mildly surprised that he hit him shooting like that.

He wrote, "Each time one of the big flat-nosed 240 grain slugs hit him, it brought forth a little puff of dust. This 'bo had been riding the freight for several days and his clothing was full of dust. I cannot begin to tell you how happy it made me to see those bullets raise that dust! I knew I had him. It made my day, believe me!"

A southpaw, Askins liked ambidextrous autoloaders and lever actions for long guns-- the Savage Model 99, the .351 Winchester and the 12 ga. Remington. The latter, he said, was cut to 22 barrel length for him by J. D. Buchanan, who also affixed a full length extended magazine that held eight shells, bringing total capacity to nine rounds.

For a time when it first came out, Askins carried a 4" Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum in a Berns-Martin breakfront holster, although I can find no mention in his work of him ever using it in a gun-fight. Virtually all his shootings with handguns found him using one or another Colt; not until the very end of his man-killing days would he shoot a human with a Smith & Wesson.

Askins began his law-enforcement career as a forest ranger, using a stock GI 1911 .45 auto swapped from his lifelong best friend George Parker. "It was stamped 'U.S. Property' and had been purloined from the ordnance stores at Fort Huachucha," Charlie later admitted. He wore it in a Sam Myres holster. This was also his first sidearm when he joined the Border Patrol, but he quickly switched to a Colt New Service .44-40 with 4" barrel.

The large-frame Colt double-action was always an Askins favorite. The sawed-off snubnose version he had acquired for plainclothes wear quickly fell out of his favor when, sans sights, he fortunately missed the two shots he fired in the mistaken identity incident.

The same big gun in its long-barreled .38 Special target format, the Shooting Master, was Askins' choice in the centerfire class of bullseye pistol, the discipline in which he captured 534 medals, 117 trophies and the National Championship of the United States. When he became chief firearms instructor for the Border Patrol, he again showed his preference, though his choice of caliber was surprising. He wrote:

"As the Great Depression eased some-what, the Border Patrol at my insistence purchased new revolvers for the entire service. I had small love for the Smith & Wesson, a dislike which I share to this day, and so I elected the Colt New Service in .38 Spl. caliber. The revolver had a 4" barrel, fixed sight and a square butt.

"There were 642 revolvers purchased, at a cost to the U.S. Gov't of $19 each. I had the entire shipment sent to me in El Paso. I shot each revolver and sighted it in. The sights were all the fixed type, the front sight was a great upstanding chunk of metal and the rear sight was a rectangular notch cut into the top strap. I made a tool to bend the front sight either right or left to bring the gun to zero, I filed down the front sight if the gun shot low and filled (sic) the rear notch if it shot high."

In the .22 events, Askins shot a Colt Woodsman auto with a lead weight under the barrel. In the .45 category, his choice was a Colt Government tuned by the same "Buck" Buchanan who had tuned his shotgun and was now working for the legendary Frank Pachmayr.

In the national individual championship, an externally-stocked GI .45 was required, and Askins used one that Buchanan and Pachmayr had internally accurized and fitted with a 4 lb. trigger.

This was one of the guns he took with him to the European Theater in World War II. He swapped between it and his personal New Service .38, that one fitted with a King sight rib and a cutaway trigger guard. He shot men with both guns.

He used 230 gr. ball in the .45 and Winchester's slow 200 gr. Super Police roundnose lead in the .38. Askins believed that an accurate handgun with a smooth action, sighted to point-of-aim, point-of-impact, made the most sense as a defensive sidearm.

Based on his autobiography, the last man he killed was in 1957. Charlie was a U.S. military advisor in Vietnam. While hunting in the jungle one day, he ran across a Viet Minh soldier. Askins was carrying a Savage .358 lever action rifle (with which he had blown away a couple of other Viet Minh who interrupted his hunting on another occasion) but chose to draw his new Smith & Wesson Model 29 and fire it left hand only.

"I let the ambusher have the first 240 gr. slug right through the ribs on the left side. It was probably the first man ever killed with the .44 because it was quite new in those days," Askins observed casually. He finished the man with a second shot to the throat.

In his later life- I got to know him in the early 1970s--he told me he generally carried one or another single-action .45 auto. At one time Charlie was quite partial to the small, lightweight Star PD.

I knew Charlie Askins as a man who was fun to drink with, but a man you wouldn't want to get drunk with. He was an adoring husband and father, a lover of horses and a sucker for stray dogs. When his many fans wrote him, he answered them promptly and (usually) politely. Perhaps it was a natural compensation for the part of him that went beyond survival euphoria in the pleasure he took after killing a man.

I've heard people comment, "Whatever else you say about Askins, he sure didn't suffer from that 'post shooting trauma stuff." I beg to differ.

One of the virtually inescapable things in the aftermath of killing is what Dr. Walter Gorski defined as "Mark of Cain" syndrome. This is the sense that having killed people has changed the way that others look at you, and the way you look at yourself.There is no doubt that this was true of Charles Askins. The men he had killed, and the gunfights he survived, defined him in a very real way. Not just to others, but to himself. You didn't have to know him and talk to him to see it. It was inescapably visible in the body of his written work.

There were facets of Charlie that I wouldn't want in a cop. There was racism. There was a killer instinct, too strong, strong enough to sometimes slip its leash. Some of his shootings, if they'd been adjudicated, could have earned him "life without parole."
Yet Charlie was also the man who first organized firearms training in the Border Patrol, laying a foundation that sees that agency today as one of the world's leaders in law enforcement gunfight survival.
His tenacity, his courage, his coolness and above all his skill at arms are qualities we can all strive to emulate, though few of us will manifest them to the degree that he did.
Let that be the legacy of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. May he rest in peace.''

==A somewhat different perspective on Askins==

July 2008 issue of ''Tactical Weapons'' by Cameron Hopkins

Col. Charles Askins

The fact that Askins named his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner pretty much says it all. When his lifelong best friend, George Parker, was dying of cancer, Askins handed him a .45 auto. Parker shot himself, allowing Askins to brag that he helped his friend “do the manly thing.”

While most of his kills were racked up during his days with the Border Patrol along the Rio Grand River in his native Texas, Col. Askins added to his tally in World War II when he served as a battlefield recovery officer.

Askins rode the river for the U.S. Border Patrol in the lawless “gangster era” of the 1920s and ’30s. His numerous gunfights with contrabandistas and other criminals of the El Paso region are vividly detailed in his autobiography.

The son of Maj. Charles Askins, a noted gunwriter of the day, Charley Junior was born to guns. His old man was perhaps one of the best shotgun shooters of his day, a gifted wingshooter and an avid upland bird hunter. Charley inherited his Old Man’s mantle as a storyteller par excellence, but there was a darker side to Junior’s sagas.

Askins was one of the first recipients of the Outstanding American Handgunner Award. He was a national champion pistol shot. He won the centerfire event with what would be contested as an illegal pistol, but in typical Askins fashion, immediately after firing the winning score he resigned from the Border Patrol Pistol Team so he could go out a champion.

Knowing guns as well as he did, Askins was keenly cognizant of the handling characteristics of the best fighting guns of his time, as well as the terminal ballistics of their cartridges. He fully appreciated the firepower of self-loading weapons and favored a Remington Model 11 self-loading 12 ga., a clone of the Browning Auto-5.

Askins’ war stories were full of details on the guns he favored for combat. He was a master storyteller and his vivid descriptions of gunning down armed and unarmed criminals alike made for riveting reading in the days before political correctness made such confessions impossible.

All’s Fair In War
Always a gamesman when it came to winning at any cost, Askins cheated in gunfights as well as pistol competitions. Once, during World War II when the Allies were set to cross the Rhine into Germany, his unit was stymied on one side of the river while a bedraggled remnant of the Nazi army was facing them, dug in on the German side of the river.

As stalemates tend to go, both sides grew complacent. Askins noticed that every morning at a particular time, a fat German sergeant made his way to a particular bush near the river and squatted for his morning constitutional. This gave Askins an idea.

He found a suitable two-story house with a clear line of sight on the bush and set up a sofa and table in a second story window. He borrowed a range finder from an artillery battery and ranged the bush from the window, a bit over 800 yards. He then found a Garand that was reputed to be more accurate than most and commandeered a Jeep to drive himself to the rear. There, he set up a target using the range finder at the exact distance as the bush was from his house. He zeroed the Garand to be dead-on at that distance.
The next morning, Askins and his Garand were sandbagged when the “fat Kraut” made his way to his usual bush. Once he settled down to his business, Askins centered him on his front sight and squeezed the trigger. Killing doesn’t get any more cold-blooded than that, even if it was done under the color of war in a “legitimate” sense.

Years later, in the late ‘50s, Askins hired himself to Vietnam as a military advisor to the South Vietnamese. Askins had one of the then-new Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum revolvers and was determined to kill the first man with the big magnum.

His opportunity came when he was out on patrol with a few South Vietnamese soldiers, set to ambush some communist infiltrators. Askins gave the word that no one was to fire until he did and he waited patiently until the small column of men had passed. At the right moment, he stepped out into the trail and shot the last man in line. Askins was delighted by the huge revolver’s performance, lifting the body off his feet. He was equally pleased to proclaim that he was the first to kill a man with a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum.

Combat Training
Focusing on what works in a gunfight, Askins learned to tie a white handkerchief on the muzzle of his shotgun to better see it at night. To better train for moving targets, Askins rigged up a target stand on two clothes lines and had a youngster run back and forth, tugging the target so he could fire. He practiced shooting from awkward positions, on horseback and on the ground, all to better simulate the realities of gunfighting.

Askins was one of the first to pioneer the concept of training the way we fight, with man-shaped targets and rapid fire drills instead of bullseyes and slow fire. Today we accept “reality based” training as just obvious, but in Askins’ day, firearms training was based on bullseye-shooting techniques.

== IMDB Links ==

First of all, please forgive me if this was previously discussed and decided against, but what do people think of adding a link to the IMDB page for Actors? So for example of the [[Bruce Willis]] page there would be a link to [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/ Bruce Willis (IMDB)]. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:27, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

:I've done that before. See [[Ken Takakura]] and [[Monte Walsh (2002)]]. There is nothing in the rules that says you can't do that and I like links to more in-depth sites. Actually you're the first person who has even brought it up as far as I know. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:24, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

::I don't think anyone has brought that up, but that's a really good idea! I'm suprised someone hasn't thought of it sooner.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:35, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

== Spoilers ==

I have created a new template to indicate spoilers. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#Unless_it.27s_is_absolutely_necessary.2C_no_Spoilers|Rules, Standards & Principles]], spoilers should be avoided at all cost! Sometimes, however, they are unavoidable. When that is the case, it is good practice to warn readers before they start reading the page. The template is super easy to use. Check it out! ([[Template:Spoiler|Spoiler Template]]). I will state again so that it is super clear, '''SPOILERS SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COST!''' The use of this template '''DOES NOT''' mean that it is okay to include major spoilers just because you warned the reader. The template simply helps warn the reader of '''UNAVOIDABLE''' spoilers. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:21, 25 April 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

I have created another new template ([[Template:Ongoing]]). This is for use for TV shows that are currently on the air. So for example [[CSI: NY - Season 8]] or [[Top Shot - Season 4]]. It is way of saying "this page is continuously being updated and may not be current" and differentiates from the [[template:WorkInProgress|WorkInProgress Template]] which should be used for pages that someone is working on at this very moment to improve. I have added a picture to the template that is certainly subject to change BUT anyone changes it, lets come to a consensus on what the new image should be. I started a discussion thread about it [[Template_talk:Ongoing|HERE]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:38, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== What if only an image of a gun but not the gun itself appears in the movie? ==

I have a question: if an image of some gun is shown in the movie (as photo, drawing or a fragment of some other movie) but the gun itself never appeared, will it be correct to put this gun on the movie page? For example, on the following screenshot from ''[[For a Cop's Hide (Pour la peau d'un flic)|For a Cop's Hide]]'' we see a poster with four revolvers.
[[Image:Pour la peau Police revolver-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Is that enough to put these revolvers (they are supposed to be early S&W models) on the movie page?
- [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 13:14, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:No. Its not. The gun itself should appear (IMHO). Particularly when its hard to tell what the guns are. It would be one thing if it was clear EXACTLY what model of gun it was but there is no way to tell from these pictures. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:08, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::I agree, but no one seems to have objected [[NCIS:_The_Video_Game#M1911_Variants|in the past]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:12, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well that is a video game, not a film. But still, '''''I''''' don't think it should be included. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::::I think as a general rule they should be included. The purpose of the site is so that when someone sees something in a show or movie they can come here to find out what it is, on matter what format it appears in. As long as it is identifiable as a specific gun I say include it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:39, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::SORRY [[User:Commando552|commando552]] I have railed against this like a maniac for years. Just a PICTURE of a gun that is incidental in a scene DOES NOT QUALIFY and does not have to be included. It is ridiculous and also, people who have seen it have laughed at it. So no. I don't want IMFDB to become a laughing stock, thank you very much :) We've been accused of having Asperger's Syndrome in media before. This would cement that stereotype. :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::Maybe such items (pictures, stock footage etc.) are qualified for Trivia section? Or they must not appear at all? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 00:47, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::::I'd have to disagree there; if the picture is an identifiable weapon rather than just a generic Elmer Fudd drawing, people might want to know what type of weapon it is. The internet accuses anyone who knows anything about anything of having Asperger's sooner or later, you just have to roll with it. Besides, we have pages for media that consist entirely of drawings. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::And I disagree with you :D People push the envelope all the time. If it's OBVIOUS and "In your face" in the shot, then perhaps. See this example that I put in [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AC-POPE-AKa.jpg]] because it was front and center of the screen. You couldn't help but notice it. But casual posters or graphics on distant walls? No. NO one will wonder about a fleeting glimpse of a gun safety poster in the back wall of a police station. And I'm a bit surprised at you. ;) Equating this sort of appearance with Anime is not really honest. LOL. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::Well, like I said below you should be reasonable about it, but if someone might concievably ''want'' to know what type of gun is visible in a shot, we should tell them. Obviously if it's something so small that only someone looking very carefully at a still frame would notice it at all that's different, but I find these kinds of incidental shots just show the uploader has done a complete job. I guess it applies more in videogames where you can often be as close to or as far away from the poster as you like, but I always thought a good guideline was not to worry about ''how'' a weapon appears in something as long as it does. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:15, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::::But here is a classic case. You can't get any closer to the poster to positively identify WHAT the guns are. I think they are H&R revolvers, since I have two which look just like they do. But if WE (as in IMFDB) can't positively identify them with reasonable certainty (and in this case we cannot), then we aren't offering any sort of service at all, are we? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::::Yeah...It's troublesome because they're clearly ''there'' in that shot but it would look weird having an entry purely to say we don't know what they are. I think I'd agree with you that this one shouldn't be included, I was just speaking in more general terms (and as usual as someone who mostly does game pages where a poster might be a photograph and therefore more real than the weapons that are actually ''in'' the game :D). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::As for what these are, they look more like [[Colt New Line 38 Caliber Revolver]]s than early S&Ws to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:48, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::[[File:Colt New Line 38.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:I think what matters is if you can ID it positively, not how or where it appears. The acid test is if people will say "what gun is that?" and people will still say "what gun is on that poster?" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:25, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

So I have another new template to report! This one ([[Template:Convert|Convert]]) is a unit converter. It allows you to input specs for a gun without having to use Google or another form of unit conversion. '''There is NO need to go back and put this on gun pages where both the Metric and "Standard" values are already listed.''' But for new pages, or pages that only have 1 of the two values, this template can be used. I welcome any and all feedback! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:43, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

== Yet ANOTHER new template ==

I am just going nuts with these templates. :-) We now have the [[Template:IMDB Actor]] which will allow you to create a link to an actors IMDB page. I welcome feedback on this and all the other templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 10 May 2012 (CDT)

== Row span or Not.. ==

Whats the deal with using Row-Span... Personally I think it makes the tables more confusing because the boxes are no longer uniform... Whats the rule here? Should we use them when possible or avoid them? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:22, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== A Category for Biographical Movie ==

I suggest to make a new category "Biographical Movie" for the movies that describe the life of famous persons. This idea came to me when creating a page for ''[[Young Winston]]''. Here are more movies that fit to this category, of course. What do you think about it? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 04:58, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Error ==
When I try to make a new page, I get this
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 4053 bytes) in /home/imfdb/public_html/w/includes/media/Bitmap.php on line 213
What the shit? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:56, 28 May 2012 (CDT)
:Must be you. I made a test page here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/To_the_Limit]] though I don't have a ton of info on it, I made it just to test the new page capability. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:47, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== How to list color variations of guns ==

This is a question I have had for a while. Say that a standard pistol as well as a different color variation appear in the same movie/TV show. What is the preferred way to list that? In the past, I have always had one section for both, with a picture of each variation under the same heading (such as [[Human_Target#Walther_P99|here]]). However, I have seen some pages with seperate headings for each ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_1#SIG-Sauer_P226_.28Stainless_Slide.29|here]]), as well as one section with subheadings ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_3#SIG-Sauer_P226|here]]). So, which is the preferred way to list them?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 01:51, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

== Unidentified Guns ==

Just a reminder to anyone here who is particularly good at recognizing guns, there is a new category for pages that have Unidentified weapons. [[:Category:Unidentified]]. Check out these pages and help if you can! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:51, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Sterling 22LR pistol in Taxi Driver ==

Was looking at the picture when Travis is shooting his guns at the range, picture shows a Sterling 22LR pistol but it's a Galesi 22LR pistol.
Both pistol are look alike but they do have distinctive grips.

== Wikipedia ==

Hey guys. I am going to attempt to add an entry for IMFDB to Wikipedia. The page was previously deleted because it was poorly done. Is there anyone who would be interested in helping to contribute? Every little bit helps... I want to get a bunch of stuff together BEFORE I add the page so that it doesn't get deleted right away. Anyone interested feel free to post on my talk page! Also, if anyone can find any press attention that the site has received that would be super helpful! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:04, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:If I recall, older incarnations of the page were killed for relevance reasons. I'm not sure if there's anything we can do about that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:23, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::I spoke with the admin who killed it last time (over a year ago). He said that the previous incarnation failed to explain its significance. I think its safe to say the site has grown considerably since then... He also said that if we can demonstrate its significance it would stick around. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:31, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::How are they defining significance? It seems so subjective. What other wikis have made it onto wikipedia? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:42, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
Here is a list: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis List of Wikis] (I just added IMFDB to it). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:54, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

== Table Text Alignment ==

Is there a particular reason that text hasn't been aligned "centered" in tables?? Seems like it would look much better... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:49, 14 June 2012 (CDT)

== "Bollywood" Category ==

When I went to add the production nationalities for the ''[[Dredd]]'' page I just made I needed to add British and Indian. However, in the Produced/Filmed categories there is only the "Bollywood" category. I sure as hell would not call this a Bollywood film, so what am I meant to use? I think there should be an Indian Produced/Filmed category for films like this, but should it replace the Bollywood one or leave that separate? I know you can't redirect categories if it was decided to replace it, but there are only a dozen or so in the category so would be easy to do it manually. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:49, 21 June 2012 (CDT)
:Agreed. "Bollywood" only addressed a particular aspect of Indian cinema anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:01, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Ammunition list ? ==

I can make a list of ammunition ?
: 1 - What do you mean? Clarify your remarks with more detailed descriptions of what you want to achieve and 2 - SIGN your posts. Anonymous postings tend to carry less weight because they are usually NOOBS that do it. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::How does this help us ID guns in movies? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:24, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I can haz cheeze burger? :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

I have agree with chinaman on this on though how about having it for a category [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 18:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:There are some scenes in movies where the magazines/cylinders are shown with rounds in them. I suppose it might help in those cases, but not much for anything else. While it might be cool, it doesn't help identify firearms in a significant manner. If the mag is shown, you can probably find a (better) shot of the actual gun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:32, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::In my experience, if you see loose ammunition, it rarely goes with the gun anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 19:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

This, then, do such a site or not?
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 05:05, 25 June 2012 (CDT)
===My Example===
====Pistol/ Revolver Cartridges====
=====Caliber .38, .380, .357, .35 (9 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.357 Magnum.jpg|.357 MAGNUM
File:9x18mm MAKAROV.jpg|9x18mm MAKAROV
File:9x19mm NATO.jpg|9x19mm NATO (PARABELLUM)
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Revolver</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:ColtKingCobra.jpg|[[Colt King Cobra]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtMagnumCarry.357mag.jpg|[[Colt Magnum Carry]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtPython6In.jpg|[[Colt Python]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:Taurus617.jpg|[[Taurus Model 617]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=====Caliber .45 (11.45 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.45 acp.jpg|.45 ACP
File:.45 colt.jpg|.45 COLT
File:.45 GAP.jpg|.45 GAP
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Pistol</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M1911Colt.jpg|[[M1911A1]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP-45.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45|FNP-45]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP45Tac.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45_Tactical|FNP-45 Tactical]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:Glock21.jpg|[[Glock_21#Glock_21|Glock 21]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Submachine Guns</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M3 Grease.jpg|[[M3_/_M3A1_"Grease_Gun"|M3 / M3A1 "Grease Gun"]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:IngramMAC10.jpg|[[MAC-10#MAC-10|MAC-10]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:UMP 45.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:H&K-USC Rifle.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_USC|Heckler & Koch USC]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 08:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==I want to upload images in movie for my page ==
How do i can upload images in movie for my page ? What should i do now ?
Please tell what you know. Thanks !

or you do it for me.
:Or, you do it yourself. Yeah, let's go with that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:16, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==Can you...?==

Can you create these pages ? These movies are great movies:

1.Shanghai (2010)

2.The Flowers of War (2011)

3.Halloween II (2009)

4.Friday the 13th (2009)

5.See No Evil (2006)

6.Oba: The Last Samurai (2011)

7.Terror Trap (2010)

8.The Quiet American (2002)

9.What Love May Bring (2010)

10.Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008)

11.Spoils of War (2009)

12.In Tranzit (2008)

13.Max Manus: Man of War (2008)

14.The Keeper (2009)

15.Born to Raise Hell (2010)

Special: Pink Panther (Animated Series) and Old Master Q (Chinese Comics).

== Jack Reacher ==

I'm not sure what the rifle Jack Reacher is seen firing in the trailer. Here's a screenshot. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:18, 7 July 2012 (CDT)
[[File:JackR 102.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]
:Kind of a guess as you barely see it, but I would say it is a SIG P556 SWAT upper on a SG 550 series lower, which has appeared in a few things but most prominently in ''[[Salt]]'':
:[[File:SIG 552 2tone.jpg|thumb|450px|none|]]
:It clearly has a SIG gas block and bayonet lug, but it looks like the front slide slopes backwards (along with the same flip up rear peep sight) and it has a birdcage flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Collapsible Tables ==

This is an important note to ALL users. We are in the process of testing out a new idea of collapsible tables. For the time being, '''DO NOT''' implement this on any pages! This is a test that the admins are considering using on SOME pages. If you would like to weigh in on the discussion, you should feel free to do so [http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2005 here in the forum]. But I say again, DO NOT use this on any pages until the admins come to an agreement. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:05, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Percussion Pistols? ==

Should we have a page for percussion pistols, like we have a page for [[Flintlock Pistol]]s? They have appeared in stuff but currently there is no place to list them. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== imfdb on facebook ==

Did you guys notice the fan art logo of imfdb on facebook? I don't know who made it but it looks pretty badass. [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=262195507218912&set=a.109183475853450.11004.109180049187126&type=1&permPage=1] - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:32, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Park Boys ==

I've been visiting this site for couple of years now and yet I have not seen a page for neither the movie(s) or the show.
:If you want a page for this, go ahead and make it, don't expect others to do it for you and sign your posts.--[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:38, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::A page did exist, but was deleted for poor quality. Some users [[Talk:Trailer Park Boys|are working on it]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:44, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel==
Can someone help me make a page for this? I can fill in the blanks but the framework for the page is hard for me to set up (my HTML sucks), there is plenty of INGAME footage from the Gamescom gameplay trailer as well as their website.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 13:00, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:If you need help with editing, you can copy and paste from existing pages, or refer to the [[Help:Editing|help]] page. On a personal note, I'm a bit reluctant to help create another page for a console-only game that I'm almost certain will remain incomplete for years to come. Getting screenscaps from a console-only game (like AoT:tDC) require extra equipment and expertise that very few users here have, and it'd be unfair to toss this into their lap to finish. But that's just my two cents. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:18, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Ok, this is a standard form, though I do think a console-only game isn't a great thing to start with. Don't copy the nowiki tags or the one br line seperator, obviously:

<nowiki>{{Template:Upcoming}}</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[Image:BoxArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''NAME OF GAME'' (DATE)]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>'''''NAME OF GAME'''''</nowiki> is a (short description of the game)

<nowiki>'''The following weapons are used in the video game ''NAME OF GAME'':'''</nowiki>

<nowiki>=Class of weapons=</nowiki>

<nowiki>==A weapon==</nowiki>

<nowiki>A [[weapon]]</nowiki> is used by men to do things in a level.

<nowiki>[[Image:Gun Image.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The real gun's name - calibre]]</nowiki><br>
<nowiki>[[Image:Screenshot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Description of the screenshot.]]</nowiki>

(repeat)

<nowiki>[[Category:Some Categories]]</nowiki>

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:20, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Thank you for all the help, I still have issues uploading the pictures (I know lots online, I just dont know how to get them in the correct format). Also BTW the game will be multiplatform as well. All I really need to get is the beginning format set up, I can fill the rest (I have tried before but I was having issues with standards. Sorry I can make a basic template and filler, but to make it look nice need help. I am learning how to do HTML just been a while, thanks for all the support, I will use the template above to start the page, there is already box art and plenty of pictures, but all I know how to do is copy the URL and make a hypertext link) --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:38, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
::The official website says PS3 and X360 only, I haven't seen anything about a PC release. The first two games in the series were console-only as well. If you want to practice, there are plenty of incomplete pages available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:46, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:Uploading an image is done with the "Upload file" or "upload multiple files" options in the sidebar on the left; images must be in .jpg or .jpeg format or they won't upload. The format for an image is <nowiki>[[Image:NAME.jpg|thumb|ALIGNMENT|SIZEpx|CAPTION]]</nowiki>. The name of the image appears at the top of its page or the tail-end of the URL can be used; for example, this image:

:http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:636542_237822_front.jpg

:You copy everything after "file" at the top of the screen.

:<nowiki>[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]</nowiki>

:becomes

:[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]

:Does that help? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

::Tangentially related to that explanation, is there any reason that you have to do "Image" rather than just use the default "File"? I just copy and paste the whole title in so all my posts use the "File" and it seems to work, or are there ill effects that I'm not aware of? If nothing else it is one letter shorter so should make the page size slightly smaller. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:26, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:::Apparently the prefixes are interchangeable, I just prefer image. I don't think it's worth worrying about, but I do prefer if every image on a page at least uses the same one. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Well your explanation was solid, and I liked the fact that you used all the steps clearly, Ill be working on it soon and let you know. Thanks! --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:50, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== Octopussy ==
Does anybody have any ideas about the unknown guns featured in this movie? Please help identifying them. I'm trying to contact Bapty & Co about it but I haven't had any luck yet.
([[User:Thejoker|Thejoker]] 13:00, 19 August 2012 (CDT))

== Broken front page ==

Hi, does anyone know when the front page will be fixed? Rely on it for informing me what's new on the site.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:26, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
:Don't know when it will be fixed, but you can get all the information that was on there from different places. If you want to find newly made pages you can look at [[Special:NewPages]], and if you want to find recent updates and discussions you can go to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and filter by either "Main" or "Talk". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:30, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
::As stated in the Forum, the "Dynamic Page List" extension is not compatible with the new version of MediaWiki. I encourage you to use Commando's ideas for tracking new pages and seeing whats new on the site. We are leaving the page as is because we have another change coming that will fill that space. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 12:24, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

== talk new updated are they gone ==

will these subjects come back or are they lost forever due to up grade
--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

yay they brought back the old format thank you

== identification colt ==

Which colt uses belmondo in "hold up" ? python or diamondback ?
[http://www.toutlecine.com/images/star/0008/00085238-jean-paul-belmondo.html]
and in "ho!" ?

== Calling all Wiki-Experts ==

On this wiki we have a TON of knowledgeable gun fanatics. They range from the casual gamer to the Weapon Armorer and everything in between. What we are lacking, however, is people who are proficient in wiki-markup. Anyone out there who considers themselves to be be proficient with wiki-markup, please respond to this post or drop me a message on my talk page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 13:20, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

==Borderlands 2==
I know that Borderlands 2 is a fictional universe and thus may be under scrutiny about making a page, but there are both weapons that are modeled (even named) after real guns. On top of that the weapon icons which describe the type of weapon (handgun, shotgun ect) use real life weapons to indicate them. For example the handgun looks like a [[Jericho]], the shotgun a [[Remington 870]], SMG [[MP5K]], Assault Rifle [[M16]]. That would be great. Would be hilarious if someone on the discussion page of it at least wanted to post all of their weapons they have found, but it would probably crash the internet ;) Thanks for the help. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 12:57, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

== Magnum PI and his 9mm Colt ==

Why was it that only 9mm blanks were available during all seasons of Magnum PI? Could they not have hired the right people to make 45 cal blanks? Or imported them from the mainland?
:At the time .45 blanks were notoriously unreliable, a lot of 1911 guns at the time used 9mm versions for firing scenes due to the 9mm being a much more reliable round. It's only really been in recent years that .45 blanks have become more reliable. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 19:54, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

Interesting. Who would have guessed? :) --[[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 16:22, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

== First article ''Hennessy'' (1975 IRA film) - feedback? ==

Hi, I just wrote my first IMFDB article (I know wiki code from other sites before this): [[ Hennessy ]], a movie about a man whose family is killed by British troops in Belfast, driving him to seek revenge against the British government. Could some people look over my new article and say if it works so far? Thanks for any ideas on how to improve it or things to do better next time? Thanks! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 12:04, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

::Looks good to me. I added a couple more categories and the name of the movie to the movie poster along with the year that it was produced. Good work linking the actors and firearms to the movie. Many newer members forget to do that. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 03:35, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

:::Thanks for the help! I've added another film, 1959's ''[[Inside the Mafia]]'', mostly because it has the FedLabs 37mm gas-guns at the end, and those are awesome. [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 21:32, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

== Help ID revo in [[ Blue Lamp, The ]] (UK, 1950)? ==

Not many guns in this film, but there is one revo in the intro, and another pair later that are seen pretty clearly. Anyone decent with revo ID if the image is quite clear? I'm pretty sure it's a S&W, and it looks quite large so I almost thought it's some kind of M1917 in .455, or a Hand Ejector or something. Any second opinions? Also when I turn up the contrast, I believe the "cosh" used may be a length of pipe due to seeing a bit of a suggestion of a circle/tube in the image. Thanks for any input! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 23:39, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
:"Lengths of pipe" do not qualify for inclusion on this site. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 22:19, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== Why does Bond get a 9mm Walther PPK? ==

Why is it that Bond's PPK (in his recent films...Skyfall) a 9mm and not a .380 acp? They chose to use the 9mm cal blanks back in the 80's for the filming of the Magnum PI TV series because (as some one in this forum informed me 45 caliber blanks were unreliable). Are .380 acp blanks not reliable today? in 2012?? [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:48, 14 November 2012 (EST)
:It is a .380. In the trailer (haven't seen film yet), Q refers to it as "PPK/S nine-millimeter short". 9mm short is another designation for .380 auto. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 18:52, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Good call Kaptain. I thought they just said "9mm" in the trailers for Skyfall and had taken liberties in creating a "bond gun". Forgot they did correctly refer to as a "9mm short" which is what a .380 is...a "9mm Kurz". [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:59, 14 November 2012 (EST)

== Spoilers? ==

Just a simple question asking how do spoilers work on these wiki's as i've seen the Max Payne 3 page it contains a lot of spoilers and i think this is just wrong, Please tell me do we have to mark them as spoilers or does this website allows Spoilers?
--[[User:Faizanali|Faizanali]] ([[User talk:Faizanali|talk]]) 03:02, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:The bottom line with spoilers is to avoid them at all cost when possible. With a video game page, this is slightly less of a concern than with a Movie page, but still, unless there is no other way to describe when/how the weapon is used, it should be avoided. A common technique to deal with this spoilers is to make them white text and put "Spoiler (highlight to read)" before it. If you have any questions about how to do this, drop me a message. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 10:40, 20 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, avoid them where ''practical'' is probably a better way to phrase it, and it often isn't practical since you have to say when and where the weapon appears. Glancing over the page I can't see what you're talking about regarding containing spoilers, it doesn't really give away anything about the overall plot and things like Max growing a ridiculous beard and going to Brazil can't be considered spoilers since Beard Max is on the back of the box. I'm not a huge fan of the "highlight to read" spoiler method myself, either you have to say something (in which case it should be regular text) or it shouldn't be there at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:54, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::At the end of the day, we're here to document firearms usage by actors, so that comes first. If that has to come at the expense of spoilers, then so be it, but please try to avoid spoilers if at all possible. For example, we can just say that actor X uses a particular weapon, we don't have to specify what he does with it or to whom. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:11, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== Forum Registration ==

I wanted to register in the forums, but the registration is disabled. Any idea when registrations will be open again?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] ([[User talk:Gunkatas|talk]]) 17:54, 21 November 2012 (EST)
:Forum registration has been disabled to prevent spam. Please see the [[Forum Request]] page. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 20:00, 21 November 2012 (EST)

== Stingball Grenade ==

Should I make a page about the Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade (AKA: Hornet's Nest)?. The only movie I seen it in is ''[[The Longest Yard (2005)]]''
[[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 01:05, 27 November 2012 (EST)
[[File:http://www.bhigear.com/productimages/bh-cts-95.jpg|thumb|Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade]]

Talk:Main Page

2012-11-27T06:05:51Z

Alkillmatic: /* Stingball Grenade */

''See [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_1]] for older discussions''

==Unknown Pistol==
Is it a [[SIG-Sauer_P230]], [[Walther PP Pistol Series|Walther PP/PPK]] or [[Bersa Thunder 380]]? -- [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]], 21:34, 26 September 2012 (EST)
:Pretty sure it's a PPK. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:57, 26 October 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Luther Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:Luther Unknown 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Help Identify this sniper rifle==
It's from the movie My Way 2011. A bolt action sniper rifle used by a Chinese guerilla during the Sino-Japanese war, if context helps. I think it might be a PU-type scope, but not sure: [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h41m55s165.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m27s215.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m42s124.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m45s178.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h43m12s144.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h55m51s183.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
:It could be a Chinese [[Mauser_Rifle_Series#Type_Zhongzheng_Rifle|Type Zhongzheng Rifle]] if they are trying to make it reasonably historically accurate, and it also seems to be a match for this but I'm no expert on Mausers so can't say for sure. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:08, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
::Looks about right, although it has a turned-down bolt handle.
:::I assumed this movie was shot in Asia but looking on IMDB, turns out it was actually shot in Latvia making a European gun more likely. Also, it looks like the top handguard doesn't extend beyond the rear sight like it does on most foreign Mauser variants, so I think that would make it a [[Karabiner 98k]], which also has the turned-down bolt handle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

==Thunderheart==

Another movie that is not on this wiki (suprisingly) is the 1992 film "Thunderheart" starring Val Kilmer, the lack of coverage of it is suprising due to the fact it features a prominent actor and a good amount of firearms (2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 19's used by FBI Agents, what appears a Smith & Wesson Model 36 drawn by Kilmer during an attack, as well as M16 or M16A1's that are seen with the old 'Starlight' scopes) in the film. [[User: Czar]]

== Team America: World Police ==

I was surprised to see that this 2004 marionet comedy movie does not appear on IMFDB. Would it be against any IMFDB 'rules' if I created such a page? I watched the movie again over the weekend and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Most guns used by the marionets were indeed somewhat fictional but the creators really seem to have been inspired by real-life guns and I'd love to get started on an IMFDB page for this movie. If nobody objects I will get to work on this. Thanks in advance for your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:02, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:I wouldn't think so; due to the scale of the props, I'm not sure that the weapons would actually be based on actual weapons, just "moulds" of them. I've seen the movie, and I think that they are very generic, so I think that making this page would go against the IMFDb rule of actually identifying weapons. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 15:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The weapons are pretty faithful to real guns. There is at least a Minimi, M134, M4 with 40mm grenade launcher, MP5K (with the stainless steel Navy suppressor), MP5A3, SKS RPG-7 and a few different varieties of AK-47 (identifiable, such as Norinco Type 56 with pig-sticker bayonet and Romanian AIMS). These are just off the top of my head and from a couple of clips on youtube. Even though the guns obviously aren't real I think it deserves a page, as they are all faithful representation of real guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:55, 13 November 2011 (CST)
Thanks for your quick comments, I understand the initial hesitation. However, just check below screenprints and you will see that indeed the makers did their homework, maybe they even checked IMFDB! Commando552's memory serves him right!
[[Image:TeamAmerica-screenshotexample.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I agree that the movie contains a lot of nonsense but I am actually tempted to go ahead, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:11, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:And It will be deleted just like last time as the "Weapons" are just whatever generic 1/6th scale guns the directors could find. they are obviously not real. The page has been deleted before and will most likely be removed again. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:17, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The guns in anime and video games aren't real either. The guns aren't generic from what I can see, can identify them all (more so than some of the guns on pages like [[Crysis 2]]). If mods so no then fair enough, but I think it should have a page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:57, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::: I'm with Commando552 on this one, if it's not eligible because the guns aren't real then all video games and anime should be removed because those guns aren't real they're drawings or digital constructs. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:38, 13 November 2011 (CST)

== New or original gun names? ==

When a gun was originally sold under one name but has since changed, which name should be used? A good example is that right now there are [[LaRue Tactical OSR]] and [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] pages. They are the exact same rifle (OSR image is the standard rifle while OBR is tricked out, both versions are currently shown on the LaRue website as the OBR), LaRue was just forced to change the name due to a copyright problem. In this kind of case, which name should be used? I would have just checked other pages to see what the norm is, but my mind is currently drawing a blank to other guns that have changed their name but remained otherwise the same. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:52, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:Oops... I was the one who made the [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] page. I sincerely thought they were different guns, one a Battle Rifle and the other a Sniper Rifle. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Sortable Tables ==

Zackmann08 had mentioned about modifying our current table format for weapons and actor pages to a version where the boxes are sortable. A sortable template is already made and can be seen on [[Amitabh Bachchan]]'s page (I've now modified it to look a little more like our current table format). This definitely would be beneficial for the gun pages, but I noticed it takes a little bit longer to load and not sure if users will understand what the sortable icon is for. Would like to get thoughts from admins and users on this before a change is completely made. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:18, 16 December 2011 (CST)

:You make a good point about users not knowing what the icon is for. It is in use on wikipedia a lot these days so i think a lot of people are familiar with it and worst case scenario, if they're not then the table is just left in it's default sort. Just my 2 cents on the matter...--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:54, 16 December 2011 (CST)

::It doesn't work with rowspaned tables (like the ones on the [[Heckler & Koch MP5]] page) so it is a one or the other decision. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:28, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::another very good point, but how many rowspan tables are really in use? Other than the MP5 page i dont recall seing any others, though i havent really been looking for them. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:37, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::I've used them a few times, but generally only when there are a number of people from the same show/movie using the same weapon, as I think it looks better than having 10 or so entries with the same title and date in a row. If people decide against the rowspaned tables am happy to get rid of them though, was just my preference. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:50, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::::I feel ya. They are definitely preferable to listing the same thing over and over but if the choice is between that and sortable tables, personally I think the sortable ones are worth losing the rowspan. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:40, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::::I like the idea of sortable tables, especially for long pages like [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta 92F/FS]] or [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. However, I have noticed that currently there's a number of page formats depending on the respective contributor. I may not be so experienced with IMFDB like most of you, but it seems to me that it would make more sense to concentrate on developing a way to create a more uniform page format before we spend time on accepting more 'sexy' features. Pretty much like working on a house and spend time on the roof when the foundations have not been properly laid yet. Take care, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:29, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I totally agree with [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]]. I think what we really need is a single page that we can look at that has a template for everything. A section showing how to make a gun page. A section for actors, section for TV Shows, a section for Movies. That way we all know that this is the page everything should be based off of. This would be far better than saying "look at the M1911 page" because even pages like that have inconsistencies with formatting. The special page could even be put in the toolbar on the left side of the page under "toolbox". That would be amazingly helpful. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:57, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Bunni made a template for gun pages: [[Template:Gun]] That's how a newly created gun page should look like. Of course, the gun specifications sections can be expanded with other stuff, like barrel length (if a gun comes with 2 or more different barrels, like the [[Remington MSR]] for example), country of Origin, Designer and Manufacturer (if it is not in the title of the page, e.g. [[9A-91]]).
:And about the sortable tables: I think it is a bad idea. Why would anyone wanna sort a table on an actor page by the notation or character the actor was playing. Sorting by year is the best option IMHO, on both actor and gun pages. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:37, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:: I can see why you wouldn't want to sort by notation, and character would basically result in sorting by movie, but I can see how you would want to sort by what guns an actor has used instead of just what year. Also, one of the benefits of the sortable tables is that some of the older pages that are NOT sorted can be fixed by simply changing the class="wikitable" to class="sortable". As for the template, it does need to be expanded but we also need to find a way to make sure people know it's there and that all pages should follow it. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:17, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is proving to be a highly educational discussion for me as a rookie IMFDB user. Actually, this is the first time I learn about the template pages, and to be honest I fear I am not the only one. Instead of searching through the website, how about simply displaying links to the template pages everytime somebody clicks the button to create a new page? I am sure this will lead to increased uniformity and substantially lower the barrier for new people to get started on a page. Taking things one step further, how about the following? If somebody indicates to create a brand new page, a question box is displayed asking e.g. to make a choice between movie, actor, gun etc. so that after this choice the relating template pops up? Again, I am not sure if this is feasible but I am quite interested to hear your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:23, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::::I LIKE THIS IDEA!!! We definitely need to make a page that has all the templates listed. Right now its really hard to track down the templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:52, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Search for "<nowiki>Category:Templates</nowiki>" and it will show u all the templates. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:20, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::That helps but still that page needs to be publicized better. It also needs to be better explained. How are [[A-Team, The]] or [[MacGyver]] templates? When I create a new page, I find a good page and I copy the 'wiki code' from it into my new page and then just edit the text. My guess is this is what most people do and I feel like that is what we need. A page with dummy titles, names and guns for people to copy to a new page and work from. Thanks for letting me know about the Template page though. Didn't know that was there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::I think that Zackmann08 is hitting the nail on the head. Building on above comments, how about the following? On the left side of all pages there's the master menu table in blue ('CATEGORIES/SPECIAL/TOOLBOX'). In 'CATEGORIES' one can choose between Movies/Guns/Actors/etc so why not add something simple like 'Templates for New Pages'? If you click that, you'd see just 7 options for new pages; (1) Movie, (2) TV, (3) Anime, (4) Video, (5) Actor, (6) Gun and (7) Others (for whatever else can be 'templated'). Any choice would lead to one single template with dummy info and a short explanation on how to use it. This way an immediate and easy access to the templates will be realized, rather than (I am sorry to say) searching through several menu's in the Toolbox option and finding dozens of random templates. Interested to know what you guys think, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 05:21, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::::This sounds perfect to me! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:41, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:::::So, any volunteers willing and able to start on an addition to "Categories" with "Templates for New pages"? Am not too familiar with such revisions, but do we need authorization from anybody? --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 09:25, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Merry Christmas! ==

[[Image:IMFDB 2011 Christmas Card.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:22, 22 December 2011 (CST)

HAHAHA! I love it!

Merry Christmas guys :) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:05, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Brands Pages ==

I had an interesting idea that I was curious what others thought of. I was thinking it might be helpful to have a page that listed all the guns made by a certain company. For example, a "Smith & Wesson" page that would list all the guns that they have. To clarify, it would only list guns that are on this site. As per the rules this is NOT a gun encyclopedia and gun pages are only on this site if they appear in a movie/tv show/etc. I feel that it could be quite helpful in trying to identify weapons. We could divide the pages into Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Rifles, etc. just like a movie page and set it up as a table perhaps with some of the characteristics listed such as caliber(s), barrel length(s), etc. Would could even have a 'notes' column that list certain characteristics that help to identify it (for example for Taurus 92, "distinguished from the Beretta by its frame-mounted safety").

If this is an idea that people think might be useful, and if an admin will give me approval, I would love to create a trial page for one of the smaller companies. (I'd rather not do S&W to start with if it turns out people don't like it). I could perhaps start with Ruger which has a good number of guns. Please share your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:07, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:Sounds like an interesting plan. Thing is that quite often I see a gun and I have a general idea what brand it could be but then I find myself flipping through many gunpages in the IMFDB hoping that the gun I am looking for has been properly registered under that brand's name. In the case of e.g. Smith & Wesson (to name but a brand...) I can imagine such a page to be very useful. Will be following this discussion, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah it seems like it would be a good idea.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 10:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)

Trial page is up and running! I went ahead and did [[Ruger]]. I threw in a gallery as well. I'm not sure whether it's better have it right after the table or to put it at the bottom of the page or what. Please share all your thoughts on the page! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:23, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I think there is no need for the tables '''and''' galleries. Just simply put the caliber after the gun's name in the gallery. Like: "Ruger LCP - .380 ACP". Sorting gun's by type if definitely good, and seeing the thumbnail of the gun's will really speed up the IDing process (at least for me it will). The whole idea of these pages is great, considering that some guns (mostly Russians) are listed without the manufacturers' names. If more pages like this will spawn, we will need a "Gun Manufacturers" category, or something like that. I definitely support this idea, but the mods will decide. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I completely agree. The only thing is that some of these guns have 5+ calibers which could be cumbersome in the Gallery format... It would be great to have a 'Gun Manufacturers' category. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:25, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I also added the [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]] pages. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:44, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::You could put them in table but have the far right column be a picture (put in <nowiki>[[Image:file_name.jpg|200px]]</nowiki>). Would take up more vertical room than a gallery, but you could then include calibre, magazine size (helpfull for identifying different 5/6 shot cylinder revolvers, and differences between double/single stack handguns for example), year introduced (which would also help with ruling stuff out for IDs in older films/TV) etc. I suppose a notes catagory could also ,be usefull, say if a gun is available in multiple finishes and stuff like that. I think these pages are a good idea, but I think having the specifications section is a bit irrelevent for a company, I would just tag it on the end of "About". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 23 December 2011 (CST)

This is what you mean, Commando?
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Introduced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Remington MSR]]|| .338 Lapua Magnum<br>.338 Norma Magnum<br>.300 Winchester Magnum<br>7.62x51mm NATO || 5, 7, 10|| Late 2000s||[[Image:RemingtonMSR.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[XM2010|Remington XM2010 ESR]]|| .300 Winchester Magnum || 5|| 2010||[[Image:XM2010.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}
You are right BTW, the year and capacity can help a lot in IDing. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:THAT LOOKS AWESOME!!! I am sold... That is how I am doing it. Next question, what do we want to do about variants? For example with the [[FN FAL]] do we also list the [[FN LAR]] on the [[FN Herstal]] page or just the [[FN FAL]] and figure if you are trying to identify the gun you will go to the FN FAL page and look at the variants? Same goes for the [[FN SCAR]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:28, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, that's what I mean. I think this is more usefull than just a gallery, and also it would be a place where sortable tables would definitely be useful, as you could sort the guns by name or chronologically. For a while I've been meaning to do a table of all the Colt AR-15 variants for my own use, but would be good for the Colt page. AR-15s are kind of a special case as their are so many variants that are very similar at first glance, so would include more columns (like upper/lower receiver type, barrel length and profile, bayonet lug, stuff like that) so someone who didn't know much about different variants could sort the columns and work out what a gun is. Regardless if it ends up going on the Colt page, I'm going to make it and put it on my user page to see how it turns out.
::As for different variants I would list them as they can look noticeably different, as is the case with the FAR and the LAR (these are pretty distinctly different weapons, more of a grey area would be listing different FAL variants such as the 50.00, 50.61 and 50.63). With guns like the SCAR, I think the split should just be between the H and the L, not the different barrel lengths. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:43, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:::Fair enough. The other idea that I had was to add an additional column called "variants". This would be great for weapons like the MP5 which all have the same base. Got the idea from this wikipedia page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heckler_%26_Koch_products Heckler and Koch]. Glad to see so many people are taking a liking to this idea. I defiantly want to make it happen. Also, the AR-15 idea is a GREAT one. Perhaps a 1911 page as well. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:56, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::You talking like one page for ALL 1911 variants, or seperate pages for each 1911 company? But then how would we handle, say, an SW1911? Would it be on the S&W page, or the 1911 page? Or both?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:I've continued working on the three trial pages ([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]]). I have noticed that A LOT of these guns are missing the most basic information (no specifications). If anyone is looking for a task, that would be a great one. I will do my part once I get these pages fully up. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)
Loving the idea, I am considering making a SIG-Sauer trial page with the basics only, then going back later and adding in lesser known stuff. But I want to see how these pages come along!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)

'''Please keep in mind that the mods will decide. DO NOT create additional gun manufacturer pages until an approval comes from them. It will be a waste of time if they delete them later.''' - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:26, 24 December 2011 (CST)
::That is why I said wanted to see what happened to these pages first.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:19, 24 December 2011 (CST)
:Another thing that would be great, is if anyone wants to go through the trial pages (([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]], [[Heckler & Koch]] & [[FN Herstal]]) and make sure that each weapon has specifications on its page that would be great. As i was creating these pages I noticed that most of the weapons were lacking the most basic specifications and info. (This could be yet another use for these pages!) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:08, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::We had this discussion in the forum a long time ago, and the consensus was that it was NOT a useful means of classifying weapons on the site. Hence why I deleted the page originally. I'm still not sure it's all that useful. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 08:58, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::::I respectfully disagree. For someone like me who is a still a novice with guns it is exceptionally helpful when identifying weapons. This will be particularly true when it comes to things like the Smith and Wesson revolvers. It is often easy to identify the revolver is a Smith and Wesson but harder to know which model. If there is a single page that list all the Smith and Wesson revolvers it saves us from having to go through page by page. I just find it is so helpful to have one location where you can see a picture and the '''basics''' of the possible weapons. If it is helpful for some of us is it okay to leave these up? I will personally make sure that the pages are done in a professional looking manner and are not sloppily thrown together. I truly believe that (as long as they are done in the proper manner) they can make a fantastic addition to this already awesome website. (ok so that was a bit of kissing up but it's true, this site freaking rocks! :-) ) I'm also using this 'project' as an excuse to update many of these weapons so that their pages are in the correct format with specifications and descriptions.
::::I appreciate that I am still a new guy here and I '''really DO NOT''' want to be that guy who joins and says "nice thing you got going here but you should really change it because I know better." I DO NOT know better, please don't take this in that light. I am merely saying that there are a lot of people who would like to contribute but don't have the knowledge that some of you experts do. I think that this addition would help us novices contribute. I welcome your feedback. Oh, and a Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah to everyone! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:21, 24 December 2011 (CST)

I propose changing 'introduced' to 'produced' and having it be a to and from date. Basically how long the weapon was in productions for. 1995-2005 rather than just 1995 for example. Any thoughts?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Would love to hear some feedback from the admins on this project. I would like to continue with it but don't want to do a bunch of work and then have the pages removed. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:13, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Looks good. I'm a mod here. I really like the Colt page. The S&W page is going to be an intensive piece of labor for you. I agree with bunni. We need a category for these new pages. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:29, 27 December 2011 (CST)

I'm a mod as well and I really like what I'm seeing. This will be a lot of work but I think it will be quite an invaluable resource once it is finished, as long as it is done well. Kudos. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 21:51, 6 January 2012 (CST)

I started the [[SIG-Sauer]] page, and am about 3/4 done. Any help would be appreciated! Oh, and if anyone knows how to change the name of a page I would greatly appreciate for it to be renamed ''SIG-Sauer Inc.''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:33, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:[[SIG-Sauer]] is fine. According to Bunni we are not using "inc" or "LLC" in the page titles. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:34, 16 January 2012 (CST)

::That's fine, I wasn't sure if it was necessary or not.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:19, 16 January 2012 (CST)

== Battle Los Angeles ==

I have a question that I cant seem to get a good bead on, in the movie Battle Los Angeles Aaron Eckhart is seen using an m9 Beretta as his pistol,which I know is the main side arm used by US military forces. However, it was my understanding that the Marines used the 1911 as their sidearm and were the only branch to keep it as the main side arm. Eckhart's character in the movie is a grizzled old vet and had just put in for his 20 at the beginning of the movie meaning that he must have joined back in 1990-1991 and it would make sense to me why he would hold on to something like that. Either way please let me know what you got, thanks NavyBoyd
:For movie-specific discussions, please go to [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Talk:Battle:_Los_Angeles|the associated talk page]].--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 19:57, 23 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Page Templates ==

As part of the 'Gun Brands Pages' project (see above), I am also trying to make sure that each weapon included has specifications listed on its page. I am using the following as my template. If anyone thinks it is missing anything, please let me know. (Note that I made it a subheading with 3 '=' instead of the normal 2 '=' so that it wouldn't be its own category. normally it would just have 2.) I personally don't feel that Muzzle Velocity or effective range are necessary but I am up for input and critique. Just want to make sure I am doing this right! Merry Christmas everyone!
Oh and under FireModes I am including DA,SA,DAO,DA/SA if applicable. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:38, 25 December 2011 (CST)
<br><br><-- start template-->
===Specifications===
(year - year)

* '''Type:''' Handgun/Revolver/Submachine Gun/Sniper Rifle/etc.

* '''Caliber(s):'''

* '''Weight:''' lb ( kg) (empty)

* '''Length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Barrel length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Capacity:'''

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto/Full-Auto (950rounds/min)

-----
<--end template-->
:Another question that one of the veterans can help me out with. With guns that have Variations ([[Heckler & Koch P2000]] or [[Heckler & Koch USP]] for example), should each subcategory have its own specifications with the different length, capacity, etc. For example should the [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] have just one specifications section for the page or should there be one for the H&K P2000 and one for the H&K P2000SK. (This is the way I did the page but I want to make sure that this is ok. If I'm supposed to just do one section I will gladly correct it.) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 25 December 2011 (CST)

== I can't create a new thread in the forum ==

I logged into the forum and tried to create a new thread, but I get a message that says I don't have permission to access the page. I'm using a different username than I have used before, so is my account "awaiting activation?"--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 11:06, 1 January 2012 (CST)
:I had the same problem a few days ago. You want to talk to [[User:Bunni|Bunni]]. He'll fix it for ya. Happy new year. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:28, 1 January 2012 (CST)
::Thanks for your help. I followed your advice and left a message for Bunni over a week ago but he hasn't yet responded. Has he not been around lately?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 10:12, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== I think it's time to end the silencer/suppressor debate ==

I see this a lot, people correct other people "It's a suppressor, not a silencer. It doesn't silence the gun" and I think it really needs to stop. Way back in 1910, the first silencer was patented by Hiram Maxim as the '''SILENCER'''. Way back then, they weren't even that good compared to today's because the technology has been advanced on yet they were still called silencers. Them having the name silencer is just a name, after all there is a model of the Ithaca 37 called "Deer Slayer". It's a inanimate object which cannot slay deer. It can be used to kill deer however but the name doesn't fit it unless it operated on it's own to shoot deer. There are some people named Rose or Diamond but they aren't a flower or an expensive jewel. My point is with this is that it's just a name. Even today, the BATFE calls them silencers on the paper work and many companies that make them call them silencers. There is even a company called SilencerCO.

The reason why a lot of people call them suppressor is because in the 1970s the magazine, Soldier of Fortune, started calling them suppressors and giving the reason that I stated in the first sentence. Most people that I've seen that actually own them call them silencers and they have most likely done their research on them.

In conclusion, calling them silencers is not wrong and neither is calling them suppressors. You call them either and you're right. It's when you claim that silencer is the improper term. Silencer is just a name, it's the way it is.
--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:20, 9 January 2012 (CST)

: I personally prefer "suppressor", it's a nice, ''woody'', sort of word. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 13:51, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:: Yes, "silencer" is a name, but it's a misnomer. "Silencer" suggests absolutely no sound is produced when a shot is fired; "Suppressor" properly states that the sound will be muffled instead of completely silenced. It's the same as saying bullet-resistant instead of bulletproof. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 17:52, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::I don't see anyone complaining that their shotgun doesn't kill deer on it's own. IT'S A NAME and it's correct. .223 fires a .224 caliber bullet, are you going to complain about that too?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:37, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::::I agree. I think "Suppressor" sounds more accurate and professional. If it were a silencer, there would be little or no sound at all, which unless you use a suppressed .22 with half loads and a plastic bottle, is impossible, and even THAT makes a sound. I say we go with Suppressor.--[[User:Scattergun]]

:::::While "Silencer" is correct in general terms, the term "suppressor" is preferred largely because of the Hollywood concept of the "magic silencer" that literally makes a gunshot into the sound of a kitten sneezing. The "suppressor" term was coined to give a more realistic idea of what the device actually does; it suppresses the sound, it doesn't silence it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:05, 14 January 2012 (CST)

== NCIS: LA gun change? ==

The latest episode of NCIS: LA "Exit Strategy" the guns don't see to be the normal Sig 228s. The guns are still Sigs, but with rails, and Deeks was not carrying his normal Beretta. Deeks' weapon may have been the same S&W used in the episode "Empty Quiver". -Tucker

== Single or Double-Stack 1911? ==

Which is a better 1911 variant to have? A single stack or a double stack magazine. I heard somewhere that a 14-shot 1911 is more prone to jamming but I'm not sure. The reason is I am currently writing a script for an independent movie that me and my class will make and I have access to all kinds of guns, both blank-adapted and Japanese flash cap versions, and the main character is to carry a 1911 .45 and I was wondering what the more professional choice would be to carry.
:Personally I would go for a Kimber Custom II TLE or a Springfield Armoury TRP, both are single stackers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:58, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== Novel guns? ==

I know this may seem like a stupid idea, but should we include guns that feature in books? I have several books in my bookcase that go into great detail about guns, albeit sometimes they call sub-machine guns machine guns for some reason. (Seriously, how can you mix it up?) I'm new here, please go easy, but please give it some thought. They could either be on the book cover or featured in print inside. I know it would be pointless to include a screenshot of the text, but there are some pages on IMFDB that are just lists of guns and pictures of the guns themselves.
Alasdair

:Check out the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page. It will help set your straight. Good thing for new users to read (I found this out the hard way just a few weeks ago when I joined). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:35, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Ah, I see. Thanks. Alasdair.

== Manufacturer Pages ==

With more people starting to work on Manufacturer Pages, I'm working on making a template for the pages ([[Manufacturer Template]]). I am going to add a link to it from the <nowiki>[[Category:Manufacturer]]</nowiki> page. I figure this will help to make sure that they all stay consistent. (Note: not all of the pages that I have already made conform to the standards that I listed on the template, I will be fixing that in the next few days.) My goal is to make sure that these pages look professional and are useful! If anyone, particularly admins, has things that would like to add to the pages or to correct with future pages, please edit the template accordingly. Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:41, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Glock Manufacturer's Page ==

I was getting ready to make the Glock page for the new Manufacturers category and ran into a small problem. The new page would ideally be called ''Glock'' but that is already taken by the [[Glock]] page which has all their guns. I definitely think this page would be helpful (at least I know it would I'd find it useful) as it will help you decide whether you are looking at a G17 or a G21. I welcome any and all ideas and suggestions. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:54, 19 January 2012 (CST)
:The actual company is trademarked in all capitals as GLOCK so you could do that. Either that or you could put "manufacturer" in brackets after it, or make this the one exception where you put on the crap after the name, in this case "Ges.m.b.H.". If not that, I don't think a manufacturer page is as important for Glocks as other brands, as they are all already on the same page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:05, 19 January 2012 (CST)
::All good ideas. I'll prolly just go with (manufacturer). I agree that its not as important but it could still be super useful. I think I'm going to add a 'frame' column like we did with the S&W revolvers. This time it will have "Compact" "Standard", "SubCompact", etc.. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:29, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Taurus ==

I am in the process of redoing all the [[Taurus]] gun pages. Giving them all specifications, converting to wiki-table, etc. If there are any Taurus aficionados in the house who are willing and able to fill in the information that I am having trouble finding (mainly production dates), that would be great! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:15, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Beretta ==

I'm in the process of making the [[Beretta]] page. My understanding is that for Semi-Automatic pistols we DO NOT include "Model" in the page title, [[Beretta 418]] for example. There are a few pages that are not consistent with this pattern. Just want to make sure that they are all named correctly and follow the same rules. Could an admin look into this? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Proper name for CZ ==

It has been brought to my attention that the new Manufacturer page for [[CZ]] may not be properly named. The full name of the manufacturer is "Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod". I am hesistant to use this name for a couple reasons. 1) Its kind of a pain to type on a 'standard' keyboard. 2) Most people (I THINK) know the company as "CZ". One possible compromise I'm considering is renaming the page "CZ (Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod) and having "CZ" redirect there. I would love to hear some thoughts on the matter. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:45, 25 January 2012 (CST)
:I would use the full name with a redirect, but if you are calling it CZUB rather than Česká zbrojovka, that would exclude at least a couple of guns, such as the vz. 24 which was made by Československá zbrojovka Brno. I'm no expert on CZ, but it was my understanding that any words after the "Česká zbrojovka" part were just different factories, or is this wrong? While talking about proper names for gun pages, what should the page be called if the manufacturer has changed its name or merged? For example, when I made the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]] page I used the original name rather than Royal Ordnance. However I was going to make a Denel Land Systems page, which was originally called Lyttleton Engineering Works, but the Denel name is much more commonly known so didn't know what to use. Any suggestions for a general rule on this sort of thing? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:23, 25 January 2012 (CST)
::I think we definitely need a [[CZ]] expert to take a look at this page... Any volunteers??? As for the different names, first and foremost, whatever the page ends up being, there should be redirects form all the others. So for example [[Royal Ordnance]] should redirect to the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]]. Also, whatever the final name of the page ends up being, there should be a short explanation about the fact that it is "Also Known As ______" or "Formally Known As ____". As for a general rule, while I think it would be best to go with what the company is most commonly known as, in the end, that is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think the rule of thumb should be to go with what the company is currently known as (use the company website?) and have other names redirect there. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
::As a side note, while talking about redirect, I'm also trying to set up redirects for these pages that will help newcomers when searching the site. For example, if you search S&W now, instead of getting a page listing all the times that that the letters 'S' and 'W' appear on a page, you are now taken to the [[Smith & Wesson]] page. Just food for thought. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:36, 25 January 2012 (CST)
what exactly do you want to know about the CZ? I grew up in czechoslovakia, we used to carry these handguns in the army.

==A question about a bolt ==

Off-topic, but could anyone ID this bolt? http://www.forgottenweapons.com/mystery-bolt
Thanks, a relatively new and inexperienced user.

==Site Policy On 'Made Up' Weapons==
Could someone please clarify the site's policy on guns fabricated for films and videogames? I've edited articles on the Killzone games in the past only to have the articles taken down altogether because the guns featured aren't real. Now I'd accept that as fair enough, except other articles (e.g. [[Alien: Resurrection]] and [[Perfect Dark]]) deal with non-existent weapons at some length and nobody complains, even though some of the weapons they describe feature far ''less'' in common with real guns than the Killzone games' weapons did; at least many of those featured parts that were readily identifiable as belonging to real-world weapons. By deleting one and sparing the others, you're creating something of a double standard--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 09:56, 31 January 2012 (CST)

== Gun Title Template ==

Is there any way to get rid of the '''<nowiki><br clear=all></nowiki>''' that results from using the Gun Title template? I noticed that it can cause some problems when the gun in question has multiple images as there will be a bunch of white space before the list of occurrences. For an example of what I mean look at [[Smith & Wesson Model 610]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:14, 1 February 2012 (CST)

== Gangster Squad ==

Since I can't create a thread in the forum I decided to post this here.

The upcoming movie Gangster Squad will be released this year, and someone managed to record scenes being filmed, then posted the videos on Youtube. A couple of the videos feature shootouts.

This first one shows the "Gangster Squad" involved in a firefight and has a lot of M1 Thompson action:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlUBrd0uTc&feature=endscreen&NR=1 Gangster Squad 1]

The second video shows what I'm assuming are gangster-types, which is shot too far away to make positive ID's on all the weapons, but I think I know what most of them are. Two of them are using the usual Thompsons, but the guy kneeling between the cars seems to have a Sten, judging by the way he's holding it. There's another guy firing an smg, which due to the way he's holding it and it's rate of fire, I think is either an MP-40 or M-3. It's impossible to tell because he's obscured by a car. I'm pretty sure the guy up in the building is using a Lewis Gun.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xf0iEgtzBw&feature=related Gangster Squad 2]

I love these period crime movies, and this one looks really promising. What I'm seeing in these videos suggests there will be some great shootouts in this movie, and I just hope that's what we actually get in the final cut--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 09:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

== How do i add upload an image here? ==

I have gun to add, how do i add an image of it?

Also, how do i create a user page for myself?

Sorry if i am in the wrong section. If so, then please guide me to the right section.

:Look to the left; under Toolbox is upload file. To edit your user page, go to the top of the screen, where it has your username, followed by My Talk, My Preferences, ect. Click your username (red means there is nothing there yet).--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:38, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Fictional Airsoft Guns ==

Just noticed that on the [[Milkor MGL]] page there is an entry for the [[Milkor_MGL#CAW_40mm_Grenade_Launcher|CAW 40mm Grenade Launcher]], an airsoft grenade launcher. It seems random that it is on this page as it is a fictional design that shares basically nothing with the Milkor. Are there many other fictional airsoft variants that appear in stuff (only one I can think of off the top of my head is that weird AKS-74U variant that is in Call of Duty), if so is it worth creating a page for fictional airsoft guns that do not have a real world equivalent? I previously made a similar page for [[Blank Fire Only Guns]] that are not based on any specific live fire weapon, would be like that. Anyone have any thoughts on this? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:56, 7 February 2012 (CST)

- Personally, I think if it resembles the weapon, even if its fictional, it should share the page at the bottom. After all, the Bruni 1911 and the Bruni Python aren't real guns but they share a page with their real world Colt counterparts. At least thats how I feel about it. -[[User:Scattergun]]

:That is different to what I am talking about though. The very reason that the two guns you mentioned are where they are (at the bottom of the live fire equivalent page) rather than on the blank fire page is that they are clearly based on real world guns. The Bruni Olympic 6 however isn't based on any particular real world design and is just a generic revolver, hence it being on the blank fire page. My idea was that airsoft guns that are not based on any particular gun, such as the grenade launcher I mentioned above, could be put on one page for ID and listing purposes. My question really was are there enough "unique", for lack of a better term, airsoft guns around to make a page like this worth it? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:10, 7 February 2012 (CST)

== Naming conventions for SIG guns ==

Now that I have finished the S&W pages, I am moving on to revamping the SIG Sauer pages. I wanted to get feedback, particularly from admins, about the consisten disagreement about SIG vs SIG Sauer vs SIG-Sauer and see if we could come to a consensus. Some of the page have the full '''SIG-Sauer''' in the title ([[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] & [[SIG-Sauer P230]]) while other simply have '''SIG''' ([[SIG P210]] & [[SIG SG 540]]). If for no other reason than to make sure that FUTURE pages are done correctly, which is the proper format? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:49, 9 February 2012 (CST)
:It's not a matter of shorthand, the correct title depends on the firearm in question. The pistols with SIG-Sauer as the title were made by SIG-Sauer Inc., while the ones with SIG as the title were made by SIG independently, not with Sauer. Generally, the older guns (P210 & 510) are made by SIG only or Swiss Arms (which refers to themselves as SIG), while newer guns are SIG-Sauer. What I suppose I'm trying to say is that the titles are accurate as-is. As to whether the admins want SIG-Sauer or SIG Sauer is beyond me, although as they are two companies joined together I'm pretty sure there would be a hyphen.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:27, 9 February 2012 (CST)
::OOOOOHHHHHHHHH!! That makes so much more sense.... I never actually realized that SIG and Sauer were 2 separate companies that merged. Thank you SO much for that explanation!
::Given that, disregard my initial question! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 00:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
:::Having said that, I still think all of the page that say "SIG-Sauer" should get rid of the hyphen and say "SIG Sauer", as this is how both the Swiss/German and American companies spell it. If there is an actual reason for adding in a hyphen then fair enough, but has always seemed a bit random to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
Taken directly from the [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] page: ''NOTE: In the past, some IMFDB users have mis-spelled "SIG-Sauer" as "Sig Sauer". "Sig Sauer" is not the correct spelling; "SIG" is an acronym for Swiss Industrial Society ("Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft " in German), and thus, all three letters should be capitalized. Also, it is preferred that IMFDB users put a hyphen between "SIG" and "Sauer".''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:23, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:I've seen the message that putting the hyphen in is the preferred method on imfdb, but I don't understand why this is. As I said, neither the US or swiss/german companies use the hyphen so why do we? If it is a formatting reason or something technical that I don't understand then fair enough, but otherwise I think it should be deleted. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:09, 12 February 2012 (CST)
::I have to agree with Commando here... Both Wikipedia and http://www.sigsauer.com/ list it as '''SIG Sauer'''. Why was the decision made to include the Hyphen here? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:36, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Television wikitable ==

Up until now I have been using the following table for any pages that I convert from list format to table format:
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' / "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
I was considering modifying this to give '''Episode''' its own column. I wanted to see what people thought of this idea...
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Episode(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' || "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
Any feedback is appreciated. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 01:26, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:I've been combining the episode and note columns. I think I picked that up from Ben. That always made sense for me because episode info or notes are sometimes missing or unnecessary, while Show Title is ALWAYS present. I've always tried to supply episode info, and it could get a little tight when it's in there with the show name. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 01:42, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Sako vs SAKO ==

I want to come to another consensus here... Is it SAKO or Sako? I.E. [[SAKO 85 Hunter]] vs [[Sako TRG-21]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:40, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:It's an acronym (Suojeluskuntain Ase- ja Konepaja Oy), which would suggest all caps. If you go to the US website, the page is titled "SAKO Finland." Strangely enough, if you go to the "Company" link, they refer to themselves as just "Sako." --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:36, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Companies w/ one single product ==

I have always wondered, what about those companies that have only one single product, like AMSD, Rafael, DRS Precisions,... (I am sure there is more) Can they have a Manufacturer page or not? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:53, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:Can they? Yes... Should they? No... Just my humble opinion... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:49, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Featured Articles ==

Question for our admins regarding the featured articles on the main page. What is the process for becoming a featured article? I know that for obvious reasons (preventing vandalism, etc.) the [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] is locked, but is there a way for us non-admins to suggest new articles? Could we perhaps set something up whereby non-admins could post an addition in the discussion page for [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] and if an admin approves of the addition, it could then be added into the mix? I really do love the random articles that pop up on the front page but as a very frequent visitor, seeing the same images over and over starts to get a little boring... Even just changing the images for a given "Featured Article" would be nice. For example, keeping [[The Unit]] (one of the best articles on the site) as a featured article but choosing 2 different images to be displayed. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:34, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Wannabe Indie game dev has some questions ==

I'm looking into making a simple target range simulator, most likely in a software like Unity3d or Coppercube which i have experience in. I am however unsure if entire realism is a good or possibly bad move, not only for game-play, but also because I feel it wouldn't have that... special feeling of a video game, when you play a role playing game for example, they all have their own mood. Pokemon is not Final Fantasy is not The Elder Scrolls. My main concern is how all target range simulator's I've played always go graphics realism, but the shooting mechanics tend to be surreal. This makes it not very fun for many people, people who like goals in their games get to set high scores, but not much else. People who possess firearm knowledge are easily ticked off by the fact that it is trying to be real, but lacks true realism due to all sorts of game-play errors. So while this may seem far fetched, my idea is simple. Mix a realistic (game-play) target range with surreal and almost child-like simple 3d graphics and a basic plot. For those familiar with the concepts in Pokemon, the player character has two primary goals, to collect info on all the monsters, and to defeat all the gym leaders and then the elite four. Target ranges would be like gyms, each has people who you can challenge to accuracy, fastest shot, and other contests of skill. While traveling from range to range, you can collect more firearms, not in grass, but from vendors and helping people with small side-quests, etc. I doubt this kind of a game would receive much, if any audience, particularly being that it's too serious and gun-friendly in content for most children (or more specifically, their parents) to buy, and it's far too childish in graphics for Adults. It's a happy middle where it's a game i would personally love to play, and hopefully so would a few others out there somewhere. All in all, I think a target range and competition based collection RPG with a heavy emphasis on gameplay and fun while still maintaining key aspects of gun culture would be a unique game. (things like policing your brass to be reused with powder and appropriate caliber bullets as a cheaper way to procure and load ammunition, maybe even allowing you to tweak the amount of powder that way). It's hard to explain the whole concept as I haven't nailed every little thing down yet. I was planning on starting the project on a smaller scale, then slowly adding more. So is this a good idea or am i barking up the wrong tree? I'd love to do full realism, but I honestly want the game to be atleast partially fun or stylized. (I am not looking for help making this game, I merely want feedback on the ideas) (I also hope I did not break anything by posting this, I am unfamiliar with wiki editing, and I am relying on your guides.) --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 12:31, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:First thing: please post "I am not a bot" after this message before you post anything else on this wiki. Your message seems a little...out of place, and I want to check it's not automated spam. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:44, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Not a bot, Sorry for any confusion based on the ludicrous idea and my unusual name choice. I couldn't find any other place where i could... Oh. you have a forum. How did i miss that? Sorry. Seems so obvious now that it's glaring at me on the left. And now I forgot to sign. --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:07, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Email confirmed on forums, but now Posting Rules: You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts... Whaaa? --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:12, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:::Unfortunately the automatic approvals don't work for some reason, you'll need to leave a message on [[User:Bunni]]'s talk page to get approved. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:06, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== Top Shot ==

For all you [[Top Shot]] fans, we have a new viewer of IMFDB. I just got re-tweeted by Colby Donaldson... He's checking out the page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:16, 22 February 2012 (CST)
:Haha, that's great!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:18, 22 February 2012 (CST)

== SOCOM 4 ==
Anyone agree it would would a great idea to add Socom 4 with the other SOCOM games in the video game category?--[[User:Commandoninja137|Commandoninja137]] 21:28, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== CSI ==

I am in the process of trying to redo the [[CSI]] pages. There are a LOT of guns used in these series. I feel like they deserve as much attention as the [[NCIS]] pages which are awesome at the moment. If anyone has any of the seasons on DVD and is interested in helping that would be awesome. I just finished [[CSI: NY - Season 7]] and am preparing to do season 6. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:46, 24 February 2012 (CST)

== New "Current" template ==

So we already have a number of awesome templates for labeling pages. The '''Upcoming''' template for stuff that hasn't been released yet. The '''Work in Progress''' template for pages that someone is currently working on. Anyone have any thoughts on making a new template for pages that are currently being updated? For example, the current season of [[NCIS]] or the current season of [[Hawaii Five-0]]. There not exactly "upcoming" because the upcoming template specifically says "all images are from trailers" and they aren't exactly a work in progress... Just a thought. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:20, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== New category: "Containing Unidentified Firearm"? ==

I was just wondering if it would make sense to create a new category "Containing Unidentified Firearm" for movies that contain a gun that cannot be identified by the page creator. This way, anybody (like me...) who gets a kick out of identifying a gun that other people could not, can very efficiently assist others to complete pages. If you guys think it's a good idea, any suggestions how to create/promote this category? Thanks for any comments, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:43, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was thinking about that just last night... I think its a GREAT idea! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:32, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::Great! Could you advise on the following; (1) what would be a good name? (2) how to create that category? and (3) how can I get other users to start using the category? Look forward to hear from you, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:49, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I would advise talking to a few admins before doing anything else. We wanna get feedback from them before proceeding. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:38, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::::A good name for this category might be "Movies with unidentified guns" or "Featuring unknown weapons" or something like that. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:16, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::I agree that something like this would be a good idea. Something to bear in mind though, there are a lot of pages with unidentified guns on this site, most of the time because they are only seen partially, briefly, from a distance or in poor lighting, or just due to the fact that they may be "generic" looking (I bet there are a hell of a lot of pages on here that say "unidentified revolver"). With most of these guns it will be impossible to get a firm ID so the tag will remain there forever, meaning that if someone wanted to try and be helpful and ID a few guns 99% of them would be a vaguely pistol shaped shadow (if it was a chronological list this would be less of a problem but categories are alphabetised). I think a better solution might be to have a discussion page somewhere where people can post caps of unidentified guns they have found whilst building pages, adding the new unidentified gun at the top of the page. This way you would be able to periodically purge the guns that are unidentifiable (e.g. speck in the distance) and would allow discussion between people to help ID the guns. I think it would also be a more successful way of getting unknown guns identified, as if you are good at IDing guns you can just watch this hypothetical page and see whenever a new unidentified gun crops up, as opposed to with a category where you don't know (as for as I know) when something has been added to it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
Commando makes a good point. I propose a middle ground. There is a difference between "'''I''' cannot identify this gun" and "this gun cannot be identified". A gun that is only seen for a split second may not be identifiable and may simply be called an "unknown" revolver/pistol/etc. Pages that have those types of guns would NOT fall under this category. On the other hand, if you are working on a page and dont know what some of the guns are, you can add the tag and that will be a clue to some of our more experienced members to swoop in and help out. I'm in the process of capping all 20+ seasons of the 3 [[CSI]]s and there are a LOT of guns (particularly revolvers) that I can't identify but from time to time senior members come in and identify them. It would be great to tag these pages until either a) all guns are identified or b) a determination is made that 1 or more guns simply cannot be identified from the images provided. Basically I look at this as a variation of the WorkInProcess template. The page is done, all guns are uploaded, but not everything has been identified. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:56, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:Check out the template... [[Template:Unidentified]] --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:44, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::As long as it was only used for guns that could be identified if you knew what they were rather than guns you don't see properly it would probably be helpful. Still, would be nice if there was some way of doing it chronologically so you could see when a new thing with unidentified guns is added. Just throwing it out there, here is another possible image to use for the unidentified guns template. I think it looks more like a question mark and is actually made from real weapons (a Korobov TKB-022 and a No. 74 sticky bomb). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:06, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::[[File:Question mark 2.jpg|thumb|50px|none|]]
:::AWWW but i spent so much time making that quesiton mark just right!!! Grrr... Yorus is better tho... :-p --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:29, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
I like the idea and the templates, but rather than make it too complicated trying to get the question mark perfect, what if we just put a gun overlaying a simple, perfectly recognizable question mark. I like the idea of making the gun into a question mark, but I really have to look in order to see it on those. If I had any idea how to make one, I would.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:59, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:I don't mind if the question mark gun thing isn't used, in fact a regular blacked out background photo of a gun would be better as would be more in keeping with the other templates, but what is the perfect "unknown" gun that the majority of people cannot identify? [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Gun_Cylon_stunt.jpg This]? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::We could use something like that, or what about a blurry outline of a gun in front of a question mark? I think that the question mark makes the template identifiable, rather than just the words 'Unidentified Firearm' across the middle.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I like [[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]]'s idea. We definatly want to keep the question mark up there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:05, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Since the majority of unidentified guns I've seen are revolvers, why not make it a S&W Model 27 or a Colt Official Police (or some other revolver... I dislike the idea of using a weird gun for some reason). Maybe make it a Vz 58? It looks like an AK to the untrained eye, and would be mistaken for such if not for the people on this website. Inside joke, huh? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:24, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Thanks for all your input, what a short post from me a week ago can cause hahaha I like the 'Unidentified' logo and I have put it on top all movies where somebody else may be able to identify a gun I could not, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 13:19, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

== Infoboxes. ==

I am interested in trying to get the [[Template:Infobox Movie|Movie Infobox]] more widely used on the site. I think that ''if it is done well'' it could be very useful on the pages. One of the best features of wikipedia (IMHO) is the infoboxes which give you the basic information at a glace without needing to search the page. I would love some input from people, particularly the admins, regarding how best to make these infoboxes better. I want to make sure that the information they list is useful and valid, not just text filler and puff. Post your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:51, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

== The idea to change the page ==

The idea to change the page. An example of the new page. The rest of the site will have a basic table.

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>MP40 Gallery</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=450px perrow=2>
Image:MP40.jpg|MP40 - 9x19mm
Image:MP40Side.jpg|MP40 submachine gun - 9x19mm
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=== Specifications ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-
<div style="text-align=center">
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Category'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="650"|'''Data'''
|-
|'''Place of origin || Nazi Germany
|-
|'''Production''' || 1940 - 1944
|-
|'''Manufacturer''' || [[Erma Werke]]
|-
|'''Caliber''' || 9mm
|-
|'''Cartridge''' || 9x19mm Parabellum
|-
|'''Weight''' || 4 kg (8.82 lb)
|-
|'''Length''' || 833 mm (32.8 in) stock extended / 630 mm (24.8 in) stock folded
|-
|'''Barrel length''' || 251 mm (9.9 in)
|-
|'''Rate of fire''' || 500 rounds/min
|-
|'''Effective range''' || 70 m
|-
|'''Feed system''' || 32-round detachable box magazine / 64-round with dual magazines
|}

Do you like someone, such a proposal? It should be applied to each side of the gun?--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 14:51, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

This is an example of the new layout. It is more clear and transparent. You can change the way every weapon in the service. >>[[MG81]]<< How do you like it? --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 16:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:This new format has not been approved and please change your entry in the [[MG81]] into the correct format already established. Please place your suggestion for a change in the [[Talk:MG81|MG81 Discussion]] page. Unfortunately this table is too big and would make the gun pages too cluttered. We also have many different pictures of guns that don't have both sides photographed. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 19:06, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== New idea to help identify guns ==

So a while ago I started the Manufacturer pages as a way to help identify guns. I had another idea that I wanted to try on for size with people. Recently, I was working on [[CSI: Miami - Season 9]] and came across a submachine gun that I didn't recognize. I immediately went to the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page but was forced to go through every link trying to find the one that I was looking for.

What do you guys think of adding a gallery of some sort to the Category pages that shows the BASIC models of the guns included? When I say basic I mean that we wouldn't need an image of the MAC-10, MAC-11 and Cobray M11/9. Seeing the basic MAC-10 would be enough to direct you to the MAC-10 page where you can figure out whether the gun you are looking at is in fact a MAC-10 or one of the other variants. Similarly, an image of any one of the MP5s would suffice, we wouldn't need images of each of the variants.

If I can get the okay from at least one admin, I would love to try this out on the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page and see what you all think. :-)
(Note that I also posted this in the forum).

--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:19, 17 March 2012 (CDT)

:YOU MUST IMPLEMENT THIS ON ALL THE WEAPON CATEGORY PAGES. Sorry about the caps lock, this is just such an awesome idea, and it turned out so well on the submachine gun page. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 18:40, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::HAHAHAHA!!!! I'm glad you liked it. Give a few days, lets get some more reaction but I agree with you, particularly since it doesn't involve creating a new page, its just taking advantage of a page that already exist. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:43, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

Another thing that could reduce the time looking at gun images is the creation of new gun categories, like "Pocket Pistol", "Light Machine Gun", "Civilian Rifle", "IAR" and stuff like this. This could help filter the guns more. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 18:02, 19 March 2012 (CDT)
:I like that idea. Take a look at how I did the [[Sniper Rifles]] page. I split it up by Bolt Action, Semi-Auto and other. I was thinking of doing the same thing when I do the files section with an additional category for Lever action. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:33, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

One thing that I am defiantly going to need help with is making sure that these tables stay updated. If and when new guns are added to the site, we need to make sure that they get added to the appropriate tables. If you guys can help me keep an eye on the "Recently Added Pages" section that would be great! Also, I just finished the [[Shotguns]] section. I wasn't sure what to do about the [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]]s page so for now I just left it out of the gallery. Input is welcome! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:04, 20 March 2012 (CDT)
:Maybe you should add a "Dual-Mode" section to the list and place the SPAS-12, SPAS-15, and Benelli M3 there. (Or list them in both pump and semi sections) And semi-auto and full-auto SGs should be separated. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:18, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

::Don't want to over complicate things by adding more categories than are necessary. I did put the SPAS-12 in both but I didnt realized that the SPAS-15 and Benelli M3 also fit under both sections. As for the Submachine Guns, there aren't many that are semi-auto only so let's keep them all together. Plus, that is not a main identifying feature since many "Semi-Auto Only" guns are converted for a movie. The point is to help identify the guns. The fact that a shotgun is Pump-Action vs Semi-Auto is very obvious during a movie and will help in identifying the gun. Also, with the exception of dual mode shotguns such as the SPAS-12, these guns can't be converted (at least not the same way an armorer can convert a semi-auto gun to full-auto). In other words, you will never see a semi-auto [[Ithaca 37]] but you could see a full-auto [[Steyr SPP]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:00, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

I'm in the process of working on the handguns section. I am going to need a LOT of feedback on this and will warn you ahead of time that it is going to be VERY cluttered when it is first uploaded. I think I am up to 5 categories at the moment: Compact, Standard, Long, Target and Other. I may split the "compact" into Pocket and Compact but we'll see what it looks like when I'm done. I'm just doing the code in notepad for the moment so that I can upload it in one move instead of in drips and drabs. Keep the feedback coming! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:27, 22 March 2012 (CDT)
:Just completed the [[pistols]] page. I would love some help checking it. I'm sure there are AT LEAST a few typos. I'm sure i mislabeled an image or something so any help is welcome! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:21, 22 March 2012 (CDT)

I propose to add a bookmark with additions to the weapons. Accessories such as scopes, grenade launchers, flashlight. This is to be a gallery through which everyone will be able to recognize included in addition to weapons. All containers in one gallery.--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 05:18, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Guns selected for TV and Movies are not realistic ==

This is a great database and I salute the creators and contributors. But looking through the handguns used in TV and movies, they don't represent what real criminals would be using. In real life we'd see criminals with a lot of Hi-Points; Tauruses; Bersas etc not SIGs;H&K;Kimber;Sphinx;Walther and other expensive handguns. I don't know who is making the selection of handguns for TV and movies but I laugh every time I see a two bit hood in a show who is holding a pricey pistol when in real life he'd probably be carrying some cheap gun with no serial number so he can later ditch it or sell it. Whether it's the prop master or director or producer or if there are kick backs in some way I don't know but it would be nice to see mainly police procedurals use guns that real perps would use.

Again this is not a criticism of the database, you just report what firearms appeared in a series or film. Keep up the good work ![[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Actually, it's been determined that criminals prefer to use the best guns they can get their hands on (usually illegally). This means that while a criminal could go buy some Raven Arms piece of shit, they'll probably just break into somebody's home, look for a gun safe, and hope they get lucky with what's inside. Besides, if you're going to commit a crime with a gun, why buy one and get your name in the system at all? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 04:37, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

Last data I saw was most illegal weapons were not acquired by theft but on the black market, originally purchased through straw purchases. Forensics labs see all types of guns that are used in crimes, not just top of the line ones. Guns used in crimes often disappear, I don't see most criminals carrying expensive ones that will disappear or get resold after a crime. I'm just pointing out that the handguns in TV and movies are beautiful but if the producers are aiming for realism the weapons don't match the streets.[[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:I read an ATF report from a few years ago that stated that the most common pistols used in illegal activity were S&W revolvers and automatics, Ruger automatics, and cheap things like Raven Arms, Lorcin and Bryco automatics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:02, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== P226 Beavertail ==

I am attempting to ID a pistol that is used in multiple seasons of [[CSI: Miami]] ([[CSI:_Miami_-_Season_6#Unknown_SIG-Sauer|Shown Here]]). It seems that it might be a discontinued variant of a [[SIG-Sauer P226]] known as a "P226 Beavertail". Has anyone heard of such a gun? Better yet, anyone have a picture of such a gun?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:54, 7 April 2012 (CDT)
:I already posted this on the talk page for CSI Miami, but I might as well post it here too. The picture on SIG's website under the P220 Beavertail is actually a P226 Beavertail, evidenced by the double stack bulges and P226 written on the grips and slide.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:10, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

==Need some help==

I changed the skin for IMFDB to a different skin... and only afterwards realized the there was no way to change it back. Also, the majority of the links and buttons normally present (including discussion page links) are gone. I can't even access my user account to change it back. Can anybody help me out (such as by providing me with a link to the preferences page so I can change the skin back)? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 01:43, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

==Charles Askins Jr. "Unrepentant Sinner"==

'''I'm sure that several of you know who Charles Askins was. He was controversial and he still is thirteen years after his death. Here is something I found that Massad Ayoob wrote about Askins in 1999. Of course Ayoob is controversial in his own right.'''

''American Handgunner, Nov-Dec, 1999 by Massad Ayoob

The death of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. last year closed a hell-for-leather life that lasted nine decades. He was a national pistol champion, one of the first winners of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award and a big game hunter with an impressive collection of trophies from all over the world. He aggressively sought out maximum action in his careers, first as a lawman and then as a soldier.

He was also a stone cold killer. For those of us who knew him, there was just no gentler way to put it.

Charlie's contemporary, Bill Jordan, once said that killing your first man is the hardest and after that it gets easier, but for a certain kind of man, it can get too easy. Some thought old Bill was talking about Charlie. Not without reason did Askins title his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner.Any future history of 20th century gunfighters will have to devote a substantial chapter to Cal. Askins. The son of a prominent hunter and gunwriter, Junior followed in Senior's footprints and left some marks deeper than his dad.

Charles Askins, Jr. killed dozens of men, both in war and on the streets. When asked for an official body count, the Colonel replied, "Twenty-seven, not counting [blacks] and Mexicans."

Askins was bright, thoughtful and without fear, but he had a darker side. The man's prejudices spoke for themselves. Charlie once confessed to a friend that he thought he was a psychopathic killer, and that he hunted animals so avidly because he wasn't allowed to hunt men anymore.He was sometimes too willing to kill. A reading of Unrepentant Sinner shows confessions to murder and manslaughter. Yet among the many Askins gunfights, there were also acts of heroism, shootouts against the odds that he won with his coolness under fire and his deadly marksmanship.

He spent a lot of his life teaching assorted Good Guys to win firefights, and when the Final Ledger is tallied, one hopes that is taken into account on the credit side.

Askins learned early that a rifle or shotgun always beats a sidearm when trouble is in the offing. His favorites included the lever action Savage Model 99 in caliber .250/3000. For close work, he was partial to the Remington Model 11, a clone of the Browning 12 gauge Automatic-5, with an extended magazine. Night sights not yet being available, he tied a white bandage around the muzzle to index the weapon in the dark.

Askins put the speed of fire to good use. He wrote of one shootout in east El Paso, where he employed a Winchester .351 semiautomatic carbine:

"One night at the foot of Piedras Street, which runs slapbang into Cordoba Island, a team of Patrol officers watched a gang of smugglers scramble out of the willows in the river bottom and pile their load of liquor into an old Hudson sedan.

"Then the cargadores turned and raced nimbly for the protection of the Mex side of the line. Three cholos piled into the old car and commenced to drive away. The BP vehicle pulled up beside the runner's vehicle and with guns drawn, we motioned the driver to halt."The Hudson came to a stop just as I set foot on the ground. The officer who was in the rear seat also alighted. The driver of the gov't vehicle threw the door open on the left side and hit the ground. He stepped down just as a gunman sitting beside the driver of the old Hudson swung a Model 94 carbine behind the driver's head and let go at the Patrol officer in front.

"He was struck in the head by the .38/55 bullet and fell dead. The bullet broke up in his skull and a major fragment exited and by a strange coincidence struck the patrolman alighting from the back seat in the head. It did not kill him, but knocked him unconscious.

"Thus in the space of two heartbeats and with only a single round, the contrabandista had knocked out two patrolmen and had only myself to contend with.

"I ran round behind the smuggler's car and opened fire. I shot the gunman through the eye, the bullet exiting through his temple. I kept right on firing and shot the driver through the kidneys. He later died. A third smuggler in the back seat cautiously poked a sixshooter up over the back seat and got shot through the hand for his pains.

"By this time I was busy reloading. The gunman, despite the fact that he had a bullet through his right eye which had passed out through his temple, managed to pull the driver from beneath the wheel and with him out of the way, got in the driver's seat and drove the old sedan for a couple of blocks down the street where he crashed it into a tree.

"The Border Patrol in those days, as I have said, had no radio communication. I cranked up the old patrol car, after loading the dead and wounded, and got to a telephone and called Patrol headquarters. Before the night was done the trio, the dead and wounded, were all rounded up. It had been a big evening. I did not feel much regrets over the loss of the patrolman. I had never liked him much anyway. The second lad, who had picked up a jacket fragment, was not seriously hurt."

On another night, Askins used the Remington autoloading shotgun, loaded with the 00 buckshot he called "blue whistlers." He recounted:

"They came out of the shadows and, as it was brightest moonlight, I could see every manjack had a long gun in his hands. We let them get up to within nine paces of us and I fired the first shot.

"I had the old Remington with its 9shot magazine and I knocked down the first two rannies in as many shots. I then switched my attention to the other three who did not like the heat. They ran back into Mexico, a distance of about 60 yards and opened fire.

"An interesting facet of this little exchange was that the lobo in the lead had an old Smith & Wesson .44 Russian. Despite the fact that he had a load of my 00 buckshot through his middle and one of the boys had hit him spang on the breastbone with a .351 slug, he dropped to his knees behind a cottonwood sapling and kept right on shooting.

"The .44 Russian is a single-action and this bravo had to thumb the hammer back for each shot. He got off three rounds before a second charge of my buckshot ended his career,

"Quite as interesting, really, was the second gunman who had a Westley Richards 10 gauge loaded with Winchester High Speed #5 shot. We had killed him before he could touch off either barrel. A most happy circumstance since the distance between both parties was only nine steps. I have the Westley Richards today, a memento of lively times long past."

Today, Johnnie Cochran would be hired by the families of the deceased to sue Charlie and the whole Border Patrol for opening fire on the heavily armed gang without warning. Yet doing as they did undoubtedly saved multiple Patrolmen from being killed or maimed. As the saying goes, "Things were different then."

Weapon retention is the art and science of retaining control of your firearm when a criminal tries to disarm you and turn your firearm against you. Plan A is to execute a technique and peel the offender off the gun. If that can't be achieved, Plan B is to shoot him.

There wasn't much in the way of gun retention techniques in Charlie's time, and Plan B was his Plan A. He made it work more than once. He recounted the following in our American Handgunner Annual in 1988:

"I got to my feet and made a run at this coyote and just as I reached him, I tripped and fell down. This bastardo, as quick as a cat , grabbed my gun, which I had drawn, and standing over me commenced to tussle enthusiastically to get it away.

"I had no illusions as to what he'd do if he succeeded. He had thoughtfully wrapped his hands around the cylinder and while I had my finger on the trigger I could not fire the weapon because he would not permit the cylinder to turn.

"Very energetically I rolled up on my shoulders and kicked this sonofabitch in the belly. It broke him loose from my pistol. He wasted no time. He ran for the river which was only 30 steps away. I saw him very clearly against all the lights of Juarez and I let him run until he was in the Old Rio Grande up to his knees.

"I held the gold bead front sight in the white-outlined rear notch and put the gold right in his back just at the belt line. On the shot he pitched forward as though spanked with a baseball bat.

"Three days later the BP Chief told me, 'They dragged a dead Mex out of the river of the Socorro Headgates yesterday. The U.S. Consul in Juarez told me.' I didn't say anything. I wasn't any too proud of the fact that I had stumbled and the wetback had almost killed me with my own gun. (A customized Colt New Service .44-40.)"

The colonel continued, in the same issue of the magazine:

"One chill evening, it was January 1931, we jumped out a big gang of smugglers in the Standpipes district. We halted them on the levee and I ran up to the bunch and some bravo reached out and caught the old Remington by the muzzle and gave it a hell of a jerk. He aimed to catch me by surprise and get my gun, which you may be sure he'd have reversed in a twinkling and given me a dose of those big 00 pellets.

"He jerked on the muzzle and I jerked on the forestock and the pistol grip. As I gave the gun a hell of a tug, I pulled the trigger. The charge of buckshot got this coyote right through the left eye. The force lifted him completely off his feet and pitched him some four to five feet off the levee. The back of his head was quite a mess.

"I reckon I was just too impetuous in those days, for it wasn't three months later until we ran up on another gang of freebooters, this time near the Nichols Packing Plant. I got too close to the leader and he grabbed my gun muzzle and tried to whip it out of my hands. He jerked in his direction and I jerked in mine-- and I pulled the trigger.

"The nine big slugs took him right above the knee. The City-County Hospital took his leg off the next morning. The worthless scoundrel had syphilis and the last I heard the amputation would not heal. I reckon it sorta put an end to his river hopping."

Charlie's actions in the two shotgun grabs would almost certainly be ruled justifiable even today. The shooting of the fleeing man who had grabbed his Colt revolver unsuccessfully, however, would probably be seen as excessive force in light of the Supreme Court's mid-'80s Garner decision.

Askins had no patience with suspects who grabbed police guns. One of his partners was pistol-whipped almost to death by a hobo who had disarmed him of his Colt 1917 .45 revolver. The patrolman had already sustained multiple skull fractures and brain damage from the clubbed revolver when Askins stopped the assault.

At a distance of 10 paces, he killed the assailant with three shots in the chest, double-action, from his pet .4440 New Service 4" with D.W. King sights, the weapon the previously mentioned suspect tried to take from him near Juarez.

When he was actively in the field, Askins seems to have almost always fired the sidearm one-handed. In his later years he would enthusiastically recommend two-handed positions for defense, but he was not an early advocate of the concept.

It would appear that in most of his shootings, Askins aimed rather than pointed. He practiced a good deal, drawing and firing from the point-shooter's crouch position, but practiced more with a sight picture at arm's length for the matches.

He wrote that during one 10 year period, he logged 334,000 practice shots. Though in some articles late in his career he had good things to say about point-shooting, I can find mention of only two such incidents in his personal reminiscences of gunfights.

One was a mistaken identity shooting in which he exchanged shots in an alley with a rifle-armed U.S. Customs agent. The distance was 10 yards. The man with the rifle fired twice and missed both times. Askins also fired twice; one shot missed, and one struck the other man's rifle stock.

He point-fired because he had to: his gun that night was a Colt New Service .45 sixgun, its barrel chopped to two inches with no front sight.

He would write later, "To say that I took a ribbing was an understatement compared to the comments over firing two shots at another feller at 30 feet, down a narrow alley, and missing him. It was a disgrace which took a long time to live down!"

Charlie later mentioned that he had point-shot without a specific sight picture when he shot the man who was pistol-whipping his brother officer. Reading Askins' own account, he seems mildly surprised that he hit him shooting like that.

He wrote, "Each time one of the big flat-nosed 240 grain slugs hit him, it brought forth a little puff of dust. This 'bo had been riding the freight for several days and his clothing was full of dust. I cannot begin to tell you how happy it made me to see those bullets raise that dust! I knew I had him. It made my day, believe me!"

A southpaw, Askins liked ambidextrous autoloaders and lever actions for long guns-- the Savage Model 99, the .351 Winchester and the 12 ga. Remington. The latter, he said, was cut to 22 barrel length for him by J. D. Buchanan, who also affixed a full length extended magazine that held eight shells, bringing total capacity to nine rounds.

For a time when it first came out, Askins carried a 4" Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum in a Berns-Martin breakfront holster, although I can find no mention in his work of him ever using it in a gun-fight. Virtually all his shootings with handguns found him using one or another Colt; not until the very end of his man-killing days would he shoot a human with a Smith & Wesson.

Askins began his law-enforcement career as a forest ranger, using a stock GI 1911 .45 auto swapped from his lifelong best friend George Parker. "It was stamped 'U.S. Property' and had been purloined from the ordnance stores at Fort Huachucha," Charlie later admitted. He wore it in a Sam Myres holster. This was also his first sidearm when he joined the Border Patrol, but he quickly switched to a Colt New Service .44-40 with 4" barrel.

The large-frame Colt double-action was always an Askins favorite. The sawed-off snubnose version he had acquired for plainclothes wear quickly fell out of his favor when, sans sights, he fortunately missed the two shots he fired in the mistaken identity incident.

The same big gun in its long-barreled .38 Special target format, the Shooting Master, was Askins' choice in the centerfire class of bullseye pistol, the discipline in which he captured 534 medals, 117 trophies and the National Championship of the United States. When he became chief firearms instructor for the Border Patrol, he again showed his preference, though his choice of caliber was surprising. He wrote:

"As the Great Depression eased some-what, the Border Patrol at my insistence purchased new revolvers for the entire service. I had small love for the Smith & Wesson, a dislike which I share to this day, and so I elected the Colt New Service in .38 Spl. caliber. The revolver had a 4" barrel, fixed sight and a square butt.

"There were 642 revolvers purchased, at a cost to the U.S. Gov't of $19 each. I had the entire shipment sent to me in El Paso. I shot each revolver and sighted it in. The sights were all the fixed type, the front sight was a great upstanding chunk of metal and the rear sight was a rectangular notch cut into the top strap. I made a tool to bend the front sight either right or left to bring the gun to zero, I filed down the front sight if the gun shot low and filled (sic) the rear notch if it shot high."

In the .22 events, Askins shot a Colt Woodsman auto with a lead weight under the barrel. In the .45 category, his choice was a Colt Government tuned by the same "Buck" Buchanan who had tuned his shotgun and was now working for the legendary Frank Pachmayr.

In the national individual championship, an externally-stocked GI .45 was required, and Askins used one that Buchanan and Pachmayr had internally accurized and fitted with a 4 lb. trigger.

This was one of the guns he took with him to the European Theater in World War II. He swapped between it and his personal New Service .38, that one fitted with a King sight rib and a cutaway trigger guard. He shot men with both guns.

He used 230 gr. ball in the .45 and Winchester's slow 200 gr. Super Police roundnose lead in the .38. Askins believed that an accurate handgun with a smooth action, sighted to point-of-aim, point-of-impact, made the most sense as a defensive sidearm.

Based on his autobiography, the last man he killed was in 1957. Charlie was a U.S. military advisor in Vietnam. While hunting in the jungle one day, he ran across a Viet Minh soldier. Askins was carrying a Savage .358 lever action rifle (with which he had blown away a couple of other Viet Minh who interrupted his hunting on another occasion) but chose to draw his new Smith & Wesson Model 29 and fire it left hand only.

"I let the ambusher have the first 240 gr. slug right through the ribs on the left side. It was probably the first man ever killed with the .44 because it was quite new in those days," Askins observed casually. He finished the man with a second shot to the throat.

In his later life- I got to know him in the early 1970s--he told me he generally carried one or another single-action .45 auto. At one time Charlie was quite partial to the small, lightweight Star PD.

I knew Charlie Askins as a man who was fun to drink with, but a man you wouldn't want to get drunk with. He was an adoring husband and father, a lover of horses and a sucker for stray dogs. When his many fans wrote him, he answered them promptly and (usually) politely. Perhaps it was a natural compensation for the part of him that went beyond survival euphoria in the pleasure he took after killing a man.

I've heard people comment, "Whatever else you say about Askins, he sure didn't suffer from that 'post shooting trauma stuff." I beg to differ.

One of the virtually inescapable things in the aftermath of killing is what Dr. Walter Gorski defined as "Mark of Cain" syndrome. This is the sense that having killed people has changed the way that others look at you, and the way you look at yourself.There is no doubt that this was true of Charles Askins. The men he had killed, and the gunfights he survived, defined him in a very real way. Not just to others, but to himself. You didn't have to know him and talk to him to see it. It was inescapably visible in the body of his written work.

There were facets of Charlie that I wouldn't want in a cop. There was racism. There was a killer instinct, too strong, strong enough to sometimes slip its leash. Some of his shootings, if they'd been adjudicated, could have earned him "life without parole."
Yet Charlie was also the man who first organized firearms training in the Border Patrol, laying a foundation that sees that agency today as one of the world's leaders in law enforcement gunfight survival.
His tenacity, his courage, his coolness and above all his skill at arms are qualities we can all strive to emulate, though few of us will manifest them to the degree that he did.
Let that be the legacy of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. May he rest in peace.''

==A somewhat different perspective on Askins==

July 2008 issue of ''Tactical Weapons'' by Cameron Hopkins

Col. Charles Askins

The fact that Askins named his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner pretty much says it all. When his lifelong best friend, George Parker, was dying of cancer, Askins handed him a .45 auto. Parker shot himself, allowing Askins to brag that he helped his friend “do the manly thing.”

While most of his kills were racked up during his days with the Border Patrol along the Rio Grand River in his native Texas, Col. Askins added to his tally in World War II when he served as a battlefield recovery officer.

Askins rode the river for the U.S. Border Patrol in the lawless “gangster era” of the 1920s and ’30s. His numerous gunfights with contrabandistas and other criminals of the El Paso region are vividly detailed in his autobiography.

The son of Maj. Charles Askins, a noted gunwriter of the day, Charley Junior was born to guns. His old man was perhaps one of the best shotgun shooters of his day, a gifted wingshooter and an avid upland bird hunter. Charley inherited his Old Man’s mantle as a storyteller par excellence, but there was a darker side to Junior’s sagas.

Askins was one of the first recipients of the Outstanding American Handgunner Award. He was a national champion pistol shot. He won the centerfire event with what would be contested as an illegal pistol, but in typical Askins fashion, immediately after firing the winning score he resigned from the Border Patrol Pistol Team so he could go out a champion.

Knowing guns as well as he did, Askins was keenly cognizant of the handling characteristics of the best fighting guns of his time, as well as the terminal ballistics of their cartridges. He fully appreciated the firepower of self-loading weapons and favored a Remington Model 11 self-loading 12 ga., a clone of the Browning Auto-5.

Askins’ war stories were full of details on the guns he favored for combat. He was a master storyteller and his vivid descriptions of gunning down armed and unarmed criminals alike made for riveting reading in the days before political correctness made such confessions impossible.

All’s Fair In War
Always a gamesman when it came to winning at any cost, Askins cheated in gunfights as well as pistol competitions. Once, during World War II when the Allies were set to cross the Rhine into Germany, his unit was stymied on one side of the river while a bedraggled remnant of the Nazi army was facing them, dug in on the German side of the river.

As stalemates tend to go, both sides grew complacent. Askins noticed that every morning at a particular time, a fat German sergeant made his way to a particular bush near the river and squatted for his morning constitutional. This gave Askins an idea.

He found a suitable two-story house with a clear line of sight on the bush and set up a sofa and table in a second story window. He borrowed a range finder from an artillery battery and ranged the bush from the window, a bit over 800 yards. He then found a Garand that was reputed to be more accurate than most and commandeered a Jeep to drive himself to the rear. There, he set up a target using the range finder at the exact distance as the bush was from his house. He zeroed the Garand to be dead-on at that distance.
The next morning, Askins and his Garand were sandbagged when the “fat Kraut” made his way to his usual bush. Once he settled down to his business, Askins centered him on his front sight and squeezed the trigger. Killing doesn’t get any more cold-blooded than that, even if it was done under the color of war in a “legitimate” sense.

Years later, in the late ‘50s, Askins hired himself to Vietnam as a military advisor to the South Vietnamese. Askins had one of the then-new Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum revolvers and was determined to kill the first man with the big magnum.

His opportunity came when he was out on patrol with a few South Vietnamese soldiers, set to ambush some communist infiltrators. Askins gave the word that no one was to fire until he did and he waited patiently until the small column of men had passed. At the right moment, he stepped out into the trail and shot the last man in line. Askins was delighted by the huge revolver’s performance, lifting the body off his feet. He was equally pleased to proclaim that he was the first to kill a man with a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum.

Combat Training
Focusing on what works in a gunfight, Askins learned to tie a white handkerchief on the muzzle of his shotgun to better see it at night. To better train for moving targets, Askins rigged up a target stand on two clothes lines and had a youngster run back and forth, tugging the target so he could fire. He practiced shooting from awkward positions, on horseback and on the ground, all to better simulate the realities of gunfighting.

Askins was one of the first to pioneer the concept of training the way we fight, with man-shaped targets and rapid fire drills instead of bullseyes and slow fire. Today we accept “reality based” training as just obvious, but in Askins’ day, firearms training was based on bullseye-shooting techniques.

== IMDB Links ==

First of all, please forgive me if this was previously discussed and decided against, but what do people think of adding a link to the IMDB page for Actors? So for example of the [[Bruce Willis]] page there would be a link to [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/ Bruce Willis (IMDB)]. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:27, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

:I've done that before. See [[Ken Takakura]] and [[Monte Walsh (2002)]]. There is nothing in the rules that says you can't do that and I like links to more in-depth sites. Actually you're the first person who has even brought it up as far as I know. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:24, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

::I don't think anyone has brought that up, but that's a really good idea! I'm suprised someone hasn't thought of it sooner.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:35, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

== Spoilers ==

I have created a new template to indicate spoilers. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#Unless_it.27s_is_absolutely_necessary.2C_no_Spoilers|Rules, Standards & Principles]], spoilers should be avoided at all cost! Sometimes, however, they are unavoidable. When that is the case, it is good practice to warn readers before they start reading the page. The template is super easy to use. Check it out! ([[Template:Spoiler|Spoiler Template]]). I will state again so that it is super clear, '''SPOILERS SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COST!''' The use of this template '''DOES NOT''' mean that it is okay to include major spoilers just because you warned the reader. The template simply helps warn the reader of '''UNAVOIDABLE''' spoilers. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:21, 25 April 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

I have created another new template ([[Template:Ongoing]]). This is for use for TV shows that are currently on the air. So for example [[CSI: NY - Season 8]] or [[Top Shot - Season 4]]. It is way of saying "this page is continuously being updated and may not be current" and differentiates from the [[template:WorkInProgress|WorkInProgress Template]] which should be used for pages that someone is working on at this very moment to improve. I have added a picture to the template that is certainly subject to change BUT anyone changes it, lets come to a consensus on what the new image should be. I started a discussion thread about it [[Template_talk:Ongoing|HERE]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:38, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== What if only an image of a gun but not the gun itself appears in the movie? ==

I have a question: if an image of some gun is shown in the movie (as photo, drawing or a fragment of some other movie) but the gun itself never appeared, will it be correct to put this gun on the movie page? For example, on the following screenshot from ''[[For a Cop's Hide (Pour la peau d'un flic)|For a Cop's Hide]]'' we see a poster with four revolvers.
[[Image:Pour la peau Police revolver-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Is that enough to put these revolvers (they are supposed to be early S&W models) on the movie page?
- [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 13:14, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:No. Its not. The gun itself should appear (IMHO). Particularly when its hard to tell what the guns are. It would be one thing if it was clear EXACTLY what model of gun it was but there is no way to tell from these pictures. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:08, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::I agree, but no one seems to have objected [[NCIS:_The_Video_Game#M1911_Variants|in the past]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:12, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well that is a video game, not a film. But still, '''''I''''' don't think it should be included. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::::I think as a general rule they should be included. The purpose of the site is so that when someone sees something in a show or movie they can come here to find out what it is, on matter what format it appears in. As long as it is identifiable as a specific gun I say include it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:39, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::SORRY [[User:Commando552|commando552]] I have railed against this like a maniac for years. Just a PICTURE of a gun that is incidental in a scene DOES NOT QUALIFY and does not have to be included. It is ridiculous and also, people who have seen it have laughed at it. So no. I don't want IMFDB to become a laughing stock, thank you very much :) We've been accused of having Asperger's Syndrome in media before. This would cement that stereotype. :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::Maybe such items (pictures, stock footage etc.) are qualified for Trivia section? Or they must not appear at all? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 00:47, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::::I'd have to disagree there; if the picture is an identifiable weapon rather than just a generic Elmer Fudd drawing, people might want to know what type of weapon it is. The internet accuses anyone who knows anything about anything of having Asperger's sooner or later, you just have to roll with it. Besides, we have pages for media that consist entirely of drawings. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::And I disagree with you :D People push the envelope all the time. If it's OBVIOUS and "In your face" in the shot, then perhaps. See this example that I put in [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AC-POPE-AKa.jpg]] because it was front and center of the screen. You couldn't help but notice it. But casual posters or graphics on distant walls? No. NO one will wonder about a fleeting glimpse of a gun safety poster in the back wall of a police station. And I'm a bit surprised at you. ;) Equating this sort of appearance with Anime is not really honest. LOL. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::Well, like I said below you should be reasonable about it, but if someone might concievably ''want'' to know what type of gun is visible in a shot, we should tell them. Obviously if it's something so small that only someone looking very carefully at a still frame would notice it at all that's different, but I find these kinds of incidental shots just show the uploader has done a complete job. I guess it applies more in videogames where you can often be as close to or as far away from the poster as you like, but I always thought a good guideline was not to worry about ''how'' a weapon appears in something as long as it does. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:15, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::::But here is a classic case. You can't get any closer to the poster to positively identify WHAT the guns are. I think they are H&R revolvers, since I have two which look just like they do. But if WE (as in IMFDB) can't positively identify them with reasonable certainty (and in this case we cannot), then we aren't offering any sort of service at all, are we? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::::Yeah...It's troublesome because they're clearly ''there'' in that shot but it would look weird having an entry purely to say we don't know what they are. I think I'd agree with you that this one shouldn't be included, I was just speaking in more general terms (and as usual as someone who mostly does game pages where a poster might be a photograph and therefore more real than the weapons that are actually ''in'' the game :D). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::As for what these are, they look more like [[Colt New Line 38 Caliber Revolver]]s than early S&Ws to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:48, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::[[File:Colt New Line 38.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:I think what matters is if you can ID it positively, not how or where it appears. The acid test is if people will say "what gun is that?" and people will still say "what gun is on that poster?" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:25, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

So I have another new template to report! This one ([[Template:Convert|Convert]]) is a unit converter. It allows you to input specs for a gun without having to use Google or another form of unit conversion. '''There is NO need to go back and put this on gun pages where both the Metric and "Standard" values are already listed.''' But for new pages, or pages that only have 1 of the two values, this template can be used. I welcome any and all feedback! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:43, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

== Yet ANOTHER new template ==

I am just going nuts with these templates. :-) We now have the [[Template:IMDB Actor]] which will allow you to create a link to an actors IMDB page. I welcome feedback on this and all the other templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 10 May 2012 (CDT)

== Row span or Not.. ==

Whats the deal with using Row-Span... Personally I think it makes the tables more confusing because the boxes are no longer uniform... Whats the rule here? Should we use them when possible or avoid them? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:22, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== A Category for Biographical Movie ==

I suggest to make a new category "Biographical Movie" for the movies that describe the life of famous persons. This idea came to me when creating a page for ''[[Young Winston]]''. Here are more movies that fit to this category, of course. What do you think about it? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 04:58, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Error ==
When I try to make a new page, I get this
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 4053 bytes) in /home/imfdb/public_html/w/includes/media/Bitmap.php on line 213
What the shit? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:56, 28 May 2012 (CDT)
:Must be you. I made a test page here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/To_the_Limit]] though I don't have a ton of info on it, I made it just to test the new page capability. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:47, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== How to list color variations of guns ==

This is a question I have had for a while. Say that a standard pistol as well as a different color variation appear in the same movie/TV show. What is the preferred way to list that? In the past, I have always had one section for both, with a picture of each variation under the same heading (such as [[Human_Target#Walther_P99|here]]). However, I have seen some pages with seperate headings for each ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_1#SIG-Sauer_P226_.28Stainless_Slide.29|here]]), as well as one section with subheadings ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_3#SIG-Sauer_P226|here]]). So, which is the preferred way to list them?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 01:51, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

== Unidentified Guns ==

Just a reminder to anyone here who is particularly good at recognizing guns, there is a new category for pages that have Unidentified weapons. [[:Category:Unidentified]]. Check out these pages and help if you can! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:51, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Sterling 22LR pistol in Taxi Driver ==

Was looking at the picture when Travis is shooting his guns at the range, picture shows a Sterling 22LR pistol but it's a Galesi 22LR pistol.
Both pistol are look alike but they do have distinctive grips.

== Wikipedia ==

Hey guys. I am going to attempt to add an entry for IMFDB to Wikipedia. The page was previously deleted because it was poorly done. Is there anyone who would be interested in helping to contribute? Every little bit helps... I want to get a bunch of stuff together BEFORE I add the page so that it doesn't get deleted right away. Anyone interested feel free to post on my talk page! Also, if anyone can find any press attention that the site has received that would be super helpful! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:04, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:If I recall, older incarnations of the page were killed for relevance reasons. I'm not sure if there's anything we can do about that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:23, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::I spoke with the admin who killed it last time (over a year ago). He said that the previous incarnation failed to explain its significance. I think its safe to say the site has grown considerably since then... He also said that if we can demonstrate its significance it would stick around. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:31, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::How are they defining significance? It seems so subjective. What other wikis have made it onto wikipedia? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:42, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
Here is a list: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis List of Wikis] (I just added IMFDB to it). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:54, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

== Table Text Alignment ==

Is there a particular reason that text hasn't been aligned "centered" in tables?? Seems like it would look much better... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:49, 14 June 2012 (CDT)

== "Bollywood" Category ==

When I went to add the production nationalities for the ''[[Dredd]]'' page I just made I needed to add British and Indian. However, in the Produced/Filmed categories there is only the "Bollywood" category. I sure as hell would not call this a Bollywood film, so what am I meant to use? I think there should be an Indian Produced/Filmed category for films like this, but should it replace the Bollywood one or leave that separate? I know you can't redirect categories if it was decided to replace it, but there are only a dozen or so in the category so would be easy to do it manually. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:49, 21 June 2012 (CDT)
:Agreed. "Bollywood" only addressed a particular aspect of Indian cinema anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:01, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Ammunition list ? ==

I can make a list of ammunition ?
: 1 - What do you mean? Clarify your remarks with more detailed descriptions of what you want to achieve and 2 - SIGN your posts. Anonymous postings tend to carry less weight because they are usually NOOBS that do it. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::How does this help us ID guns in movies? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:24, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I can haz cheeze burger? :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

I have agree with chinaman on this on though how about having it for a category [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 18:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:There are some scenes in movies where the magazines/cylinders are shown with rounds in them. I suppose it might help in those cases, but not much for anything else. While it might be cool, it doesn't help identify firearms in a significant manner. If the mag is shown, you can probably find a (better) shot of the actual gun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:32, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::In my experience, if you see loose ammunition, it rarely goes with the gun anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 19:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

This, then, do such a site or not?
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 05:05, 25 June 2012 (CDT)
===My Example===
====Pistol/ Revolver Cartridges====
=====Caliber .38, .380, .357, .35 (9 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.357 Magnum.jpg|.357 MAGNUM
File:9x18mm MAKAROV.jpg|9x18mm MAKAROV
File:9x19mm NATO.jpg|9x19mm NATO (PARABELLUM)
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Revolver</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:ColtKingCobra.jpg|[[Colt King Cobra]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtMagnumCarry.357mag.jpg|[[Colt Magnum Carry]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtPython6In.jpg|[[Colt Python]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:Taurus617.jpg|[[Taurus Model 617]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=====Caliber .45 (11.45 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.45 acp.jpg|.45 ACP
File:.45 colt.jpg|.45 COLT
File:.45 GAP.jpg|.45 GAP
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Pistol</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M1911Colt.jpg|[[M1911A1]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP-45.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45|FNP-45]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP45Tac.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45_Tactical|FNP-45 Tactical]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:Glock21.jpg|[[Glock_21#Glock_21|Glock 21]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Submachine Guns</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M3 Grease.jpg|[[M3_/_M3A1_"Grease_Gun"|M3 / M3A1 "Grease Gun"]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:IngramMAC10.jpg|[[MAC-10#MAC-10|MAC-10]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:UMP 45.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:H&K-USC Rifle.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_USC|Heckler & Koch USC]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 08:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==I want to upload images in movie for my page ==
How do i can upload images in movie for my page ? What should i do now ?
Please tell what you know. Thanks !

or you do it for me.
:Or, you do it yourself. Yeah, let's go with that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:16, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==Can you...?==

Can you create these pages ? These movies are great movies:

1.Shanghai (2010)

2.The Flowers of War (2011)

3.Halloween II (2009)

4.Friday the 13th (2009)

5.See No Evil (2006)

6.Oba: The Last Samurai (2011)

7.Terror Trap (2010)

8.The Quiet American (2002)

9.What Love May Bring (2010)

10.Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008)

11.Spoils of War (2009)

12.In Tranzit (2008)

13.Max Manus: Man of War (2008)

14.The Keeper (2009)

15.Born to Raise Hell (2010)

Special: Pink Panther (Animated Series) and Old Master Q (Chinese Comics).

== Jack Reacher ==

I'm not sure what the rifle Jack Reacher is seen firing in the trailer. Here's a screenshot. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:18, 7 July 2012 (CDT)
[[File:JackR 102.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]
:Kind of a guess as you barely see it, but I would say it is a SIG P556 SWAT upper on a SG 550 series lower, which has appeared in a few things but most prominently in ''[[Salt]]'':
:[[File:SIG 552 2tone.jpg|thumb|450px|none|]]
:It clearly has a SIG gas block and bayonet lug, but it looks like the front slide slopes backwards (along with the same flip up rear peep sight) and it has a birdcage flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Collapsible Tables ==

This is an important note to ALL users. We are in the process of testing out a new idea of collapsible tables. For the time being, '''DO NOT''' implement this on any pages! This is a test that the admins are considering using on SOME pages. If you would like to weigh in on the discussion, you should feel free to do so [http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2005 here in the forum]. But I say again, DO NOT use this on any pages until the admins come to an agreement. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:05, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Percussion Pistols? ==

Should we have a page for percussion pistols, like we have a page for [[Flintlock Pistol]]s? They have appeared in stuff but currently there is no place to list them. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== imfdb on facebook ==

Did you guys notice the fan art logo of imfdb on facebook? I don't know who made it but it looks pretty badass. [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=262195507218912&set=a.109183475853450.11004.109180049187126&type=1&permPage=1] - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:32, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Park Boys ==

I've been visiting this site for couple of years now and yet I have not seen a page for neither the movie(s) or the show.
:If you want a page for this, go ahead and make it, don't expect others to do it for you and sign your posts.--[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:38, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::A page did exist, but was deleted for poor quality. Some users [[Talk:Trailer Park Boys|are working on it]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:44, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel==
Can someone help me make a page for this? I can fill in the blanks but the framework for the page is hard for me to set up (my HTML sucks), there is plenty of INGAME footage from the Gamescom gameplay trailer as well as their website.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 13:00, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:If you need help with editing, you can copy and paste from existing pages, or refer to the [[Help:Editing|help]] page. On a personal note, I'm a bit reluctant to help create another page for a console-only game that I'm almost certain will remain incomplete for years to come. Getting screenscaps from a console-only game (like AoT:tDC) require extra equipment and expertise that very few users here have, and it'd be unfair to toss this into their lap to finish. But that's just my two cents. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:18, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Ok, this is a standard form, though I do think a console-only game isn't a great thing to start with. Don't copy the nowiki tags or the one br line seperator, obviously:

<nowiki>{{Template:Upcoming}}</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[Image:BoxArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''NAME OF GAME'' (DATE)]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>'''''NAME OF GAME'''''</nowiki> is a (short description of the game)

<nowiki>'''The following weapons are used in the video game ''NAME OF GAME'':'''</nowiki>

<nowiki>=Class of weapons=</nowiki>

<nowiki>==A weapon==</nowiki>

<nowiki>A [[weapon]]</nowiki> is used by men to do things in a level.

<nowiki>[[Image:Gun Image.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The real gun's name - calibre]]</nowiki><br>
<nowiki>[[Image:Screenshot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Description of the screenshot.]]</nowiki>

(repeat)

<nowiki>[[Category:Some Categories]]</nowiki>

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:20, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Thank you for all the help, I still have issues uploading the pictures (I know lots online, I just dont know how to get them in the correct format). Also BTW the game will be multiplatform as well. All I really need to get is the beginning format set up, I can fill the rest (I have tried before but I was having issues with standards. Sorry I can make a basic template and filler, but to make it look nice need help. I am learning how to do HTML just been a while, thanks for all the support, I will use the template above to start the page, there is already box art and plenty of pictures, but all I know how to do is copy the URL and make a hypertext link) --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:38, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
::The official website says PS3 and X360 only, I haven't seen anything about a PC release. The first two games in the series were console-only as well. If you want to practice, there are plenty of incomplete pages available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:46, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:Uploading an image is done with the "Upload file" or "upload multiple files" options in the sidebar on the left; images must be in .jpg or .jpeg format or they won't upload. The format for an image is <nowiki>[[Image:NAME.jpg|thumb|ALIGNMENT|SIZEpx|CAPTION]]</nowiki>. The name of the image appears at the top of its page or the tail-end of the URL can be used; for example, this image:

:http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:636542_237822_front.jpg

:You copy everything after "file" at the top of the screen.

:<nowiki>[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]</nowiki>

:becomes

:[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]

:Does that help? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

::Tangentially related to that explanation, is there any reason that you have to do "Image" rather than just use the default "File"? I just copy and paste the whole title in so all my posts use the "File" and it seems to work, or are there ill effects that I'm not aware of? If nothing else it is one letter shorter so should make the page size slightly smaller. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:26, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:::Apparently the prefixes are interchangeable, I just prefer image. I don't think it's worth worrying about, but I do prefer if every image on a page at least uses the same one. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Well your explanation was solid, and I liked the fact that you used all the steps clearly, Ill be working on it soon and let you know. Thanks! --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:50, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== Octopussy ==
Does anybody have any ideas about the unknown guns featured in this movie? Please help identifying them. I'm trying to contact Bapty & Co about it but I haven't had any luck yet.
([[User:Thejoker|Thejoker]] 13:00, 19 August 2012 (CDT))

== Broken front page ==

Hi, does anyone know when the front page will be fixed? Rely on it for informing me what's new on the site.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:26, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
:Don't know when it will be fixed, but you can get all the information that was on there from different places. If you want to find newly made pages you can look at [[Special:NewPages]], and if you want to find recent updates and discussions you can go to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and filter by either "Main" or "Talk". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:30, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
::As stated in the Forum, the "Dynamic Page List" extension is not compatible with the new version of MediaWiki. I encourage you to use Commando's ideas for tracking new pages and seeing whats new on the site. We are leaving the page as is because we have another change coming that will fill that space. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 12:24, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

== talk new updated are they gone ==

will these subjects come back or are they lost forever due to up grade
--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

yay they brought back the old format thank you

== identification colt ==

Which colt uses belmondo in "hold up" ? python or diamondback ?
[http://www.toutlecine.com/images/star/0008/00085238-jean-paul-belmondo.html]
and in "ho!" ?

== Calling all Wiki-Experts ==

On this wiki we have a TON of knowledgeable gun fanatics. They range from the casual gamer to the Weapon Armorer and everything in between. What we are lacking, however, is people who are proficient in wiki-markup. Anyone out there who considers themselves to be be proficient with wiki-markup, please respond to this post or drop me a message on my talk page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 13:20, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

==Borderlands 2==
I know that Borderlands 2 is a fictional universe and thus may be under scrutiny about making a page, but there are both weapons that are modeled (even named) after real guns. On top of that the weapon icons which describe the type of weapon (handgun, shotgun ect) use real life weapons to indicate them. For example the handgun looks like a [[Jericho]], the shotgun a [[Remington 870]], SMG [[MP5K]], Assault Rifle [[M16]]. That would be great. Would be hilarious if someone on the discussion page of it at least wanted to post all of their weapons they have found, but it would probably crash the internet ;) Thanks for the help. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 12:57, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

== Magnum PI and his 9mm Colt ==

Why was it that only 9mm blanks were available during all seasons of Magnum PI? Could they not have hired the right people to make 45 cal blanks? Or imported them from the mainland?
:At the time .45 blanks were notoriously unreliable, a lot of 1911 guns at the time used 9mm versions for firing scenes due to the 9mm being a much more reliable round. It's only really been in recent years that .45 blanks have become more reliable. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 19:54, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

Interesting. Who would have guessed? :) --[[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 16:22, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

== First article ''Hennessy'' (1975 IRA film) - feedback? ==

Hi, I just wrote my first IMFDB article (I know wiki code from other sites before this): [[ Hennessy ]], a movie about a man whose family is killed by British troops in Belfast, driving him to seek revenge against the British government. Could some people look over my new article and say if it works so far? Thanks for any ideas on how to improve it or things to do better next time? Thanks! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 12:04, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

::Looks good to me. I added a couple more categories and the name of the movie to the movie poster along with the year that it was produced. Good work linking the actors and firearms to the movie. Many newer members forget to do that. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 03:35, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

:::Thanks for the help! I've added another film, 1959's ''[[Inside the Mafia]]'', mostly because it has the FedLabs 37mm gas-guns at the end, and those are awesome. [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 21:32, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

== Help ID revo in [[ Blue Lamp, The ]] (UK, 1950)? ==

Not many guns in this film, but there is one revo in the intro, and another pair later that are seen pretty clearly. Anyone decent with revo ID if the image is quite clear? I'm pretty sure it's a S&W, and it looks quite large so I almost thought it's some kind of M1917 in .455, or a Hand Ejector or something. Any second opinions? Also when I turn up the contrast, I believe the "cosh" used may be a length of pipe due to seeing a bit of a suggestion of a circle/tube in the image. Thanks for any input! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 23:39, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
:"Lengths of pipe" do not qualify for inclusion on this site. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 22:19, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== Why does Bond get a 9mm Walther PPK? ==

Why is it that Bond's PPK (in his recent films...Skyfall) a 9mm and not a .380 acp? They chose to use the 9mm cal blanks back in the 80's for the filming of the Magnum PI TV series because (as some one in this forum informed me 45 caliber blanks were unreliable). Are .380 acp blanks not reliable today? in 2012?? [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:48, 14 November 2012 (EST)
:It is a .380. In the trailer (haven't seen film yet), Q refers to it as "PPK/S nine-millimeter short". 9mm short is another designation for .380 auto. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 18:52, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Good call Kaptain. I thought they just said "9mm" in the trailers for Skyfall and had taken liberties in creating a "bond gun". Forgot they did correctly refer to as a "9mm short" which is what a .380 is...a "9mm Kurz". [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:59, 14 November 2012 (EST)

== Spoilers? ==

Just a simple question asking how do spoilers work on these wiki's as i've seen the Max Payne 3 page it contains a lot of spoilers and i think this is just wrong, Please tell me do we have to mark them as spoilers or does this website allows Spoilers?
--[[User:Faizanali|Faizanali]] ([[User talk:Faizanali|talk]]) 03:02, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:The bottom line with spoilers is to avoid them at all cost when possible. With a video game page, this is slightly less of a concern than with a Movie page, but still, unless there is no other way to describe when/how the weapon is used, it should be avoided. A common technique to deal with this spoilers is to make them white text and put "Spoiler (highlight to read)" before it. If you have any questions about how to do this, drop me a message. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 10:40, 20 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, avoid them where ''practical'' is probably a better way to phrase it, and it often isn't practical since you have to say when and where the weapon appears. Glancing over the page I can't see what you're talking about regarding containing spoilers, it doesn't really give away anything about the overall plot and things like Max growing a ridiculous beard and going to Brazil can't be considered spoilers since Beard Max is on the back of the box. I'm not a huge fan of the "highlight to read" spoiler method myself, either you have to say something (in which case it should be regular text) or it shouldn't be there at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:54, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::At the end of the day, we're here to document firearms usage by actors, so that comes first. If that has to come at the expense of spoilers, then so be it, but please try to avoid spoilers if at all possible. For example, we can just say that actor X uses a particular weapon, we don't have to specify what he does with it or to whom. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:11, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== Forum Registration ==

I wanted to register in the forums, but the registration is disabled. Any idea when registrations will be open again?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] ([[User talk:Gunkatas|talk]]) 17:54, 21 November 2012 (EST)
:Forum registration has been disabled to prevent spam. Please see the [[Forum Request]] page. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 20:00, 21 November 2012 (EST)

== Stingball Grenade ==

Should I make a page about the Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade (AKA: Hornet's Nest)?. The only movie I seen it in is ''[[The Longest Yard (2005)]]'' [[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 01:05, 27 November 2012 (EST)
[[File:http://www.bhigear.com/productimages/bh-cts-95.jpg|thumb|Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade]]

Talk:Main Page

2012-11-27T06:05:01Z

Alkillmatic:

''See [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_1]] for older discussions''

==Unknown Pistol==
Is it a [[SIG-Sauer_P230]], [[Walther PP Pistol Series|Walther PP/PPK]] or [[Bersa Thunder 380]]? -- [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]], 21:34, 26 September 2012 (EST)
:Pretty sure it's a PPK. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:57, 26 October 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Luther Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:Luther Unknown 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Help Identify this sniper rifle==
It's from the movie My Way 2011. A bolt action sniper rifle used by a Chinese guerilla during the Sino-Japanese war, if context helps. I think it might be a PU-type scope, but not sure: [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h41m55s165.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m27s215.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m42s124.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m45s178.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h43m12s144.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h55m51s183.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
:It could be a Chinese [[Mauser_Rifle_Series#Type_Zhongzheng_Rifle|Type Zhongzheng Rifle]] if they are trying to make it reasonably historically accurate, and it also seems to be a match for this but I'm no expert on Mausers so can't say for sure. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:08, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
::Looks about right, although it has a turned-down bolt handle.
:::I assumed this movie was shot in Asia but looking on IMDB, turns out it was actually shot in Latvia making a European gun more likely. Also, it looks like the top handguard doesn't extend beyond the rear sight like it does on most foreign Mauser variants, so I think that would make it a [[Karabiner 98k]], which also has the turned-down bolt handle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

==Thunderheart==

Another movie that is not on this wiki (suprisingly) is the 1992 film "Thunderheart" starring Val Kilmer, the lack of coverage of it is suprising due to the fact it features a prominent actor and a good amount of firearms (2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 19's used by FBI Agents, what appears a Smith & Wesson Model 36 drawn by Kilmer during an attack, as well as M16 or M16A1's that are seen with the old 'Starlight' scopes) in the film. [[User: Czar]]

== Team America: World Police ==

I was surprised to see that this 2004 marionet comedy movie does not appear on IMFDB. Would it be against any IMFDB 'rules' if I created such a page? I watched the movie again over the weekend and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Most guns used by the marionets were indeed somewhat fictional but the creators really seem to have been inspired by real-life guns and I'd love to get started on an IMFDB page for this movie. If nobody objects I will get to work on this. Thanks in advance for your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:02, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:I wouldn't think so; due to the scale of the props, I'm not sure that the weapons would actually be based on actual weapons, just "moulds" of them. I've seen the movie, and I think that they are very generic, so I think that making this page would go against the IMFDb rule of actually identifying weapons. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 15:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The weapons are pretty faithful to real guns. There is at least a Minimi, M134, M4 with 40mm grenade launcher, MP5K (with the stainless steel Navy suppressor), MP5A3, SKS RPG-7 and a few different varieties of AK-47 (identifiable, such as Norinco Type 56 with pig-sticker bayonet and Romanian AIMS). These are just off the top of my head and from a couple of clips on youtube. Even though the guns obviously aren't real I think it deserves a page, as they are all faithful representation of real guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:55, 13 November 2011 (CST)
Thanks for your quick comments, I understand the initial hesitation. However, just check below screenprints and you will see that indeed the makers did their homework, maybe they even checked IMFDB! Commando552's memory serves him right!
[[Image:TeamAmerica-screenshotexample.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I agree that the movie contains a lot of nonsense but I am actually tempted to go ahead, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:11, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:And It will be deleted just like last time as the "Weapons" are just whatever generic 1/6th scale guns the directors could find. they are obviously not real. The page has been deleted before and will most likely be removed again. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:17, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The guns in anime and video games aren't real either. The guns aren't generic from what I can see, can identify them all (more so than some of the guns on pages like [[Crysis 2]]). If mods so no then fair enough, but I think it should have a page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:57, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::: I'm with Commando552 on this one, if it's not eligible because the guns aren't real then all video games and anime should be removed because those guns aren't real they're drawings or digital constructs. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:38, 13 November 2011 (CST)

== New or original gun names? ==

When a gun was originally sold under one name but has since changed, which name should be used? A good example is that right now there are [[LaRue Tactical OSR]] and [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] pages. They are the exact same rifle (OSR image is the standard rifle while OBR is tricked out, both versions are currently shown on the LaRue website as the OBR), LaRue was just forced to change the name due to a copyright problem. In this kind of case, which name should be used? I would have just checked other pages to see what the norm is, but my mind is currently drawing a blank to other guns that have changed their name but remained otherwise the same. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:52, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:Oops... I was the one who made the [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] page. I sincerely thought they were different guns, one a Battle Rifle and the other a Sniper Rifle. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Sortable Tables ==

Zackmann08 had mentioned about modifying our current table format for weapons and actor pages to a version where the boxes are sortable. A sortable template is already made and can be seen on [[Amitabh Bachchan]]'s page (I've now modified it to look a little more like our current table format). This definitely would be beneficial for the gun pages, but I noticed it takes a little bit longer to load and not sure if users will understand what the sortable icon is for. Would like to get thoughts from admins and users on this before a change is completely made. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:18, 16 December 2011 (CST)

:You make a good point about users not knowing what the icon is for. It is in use on wikipedia a lot these days so i think a lot of people are familiar with it and worst case scenario, if they're not then the table is just left in it's default sort. Just my 2 cents on the matter...--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:54, 16 December 2011 (CST)

::It doesn't work with rowspaned tables (like the ones on the [[Heckler & Koch MP5]] page) so it is a one or the other decision. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:28, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::another very good point, but how many rowspan tables are really in use? Other than the MP5 page i dont recall seing any others, though i havent really been looking for them. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:37, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::I've used them a few times, but generally only when there are a number of people from the same show/movie using the same weapon, as I think it looks better than having 10 or so entries with the same title and date in a row. If people decide against the rowspaned tables am happy to get rid of them though, was just my preference. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:50, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::::I feel ya. They are definitely preferable to listing the same thing over and over but if the choice is between that and sortable tables, personally I think the sortable ones are worth losing the rowspan. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:40, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::::I like the idea of sortable tables, especially for long pages like [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta 92F/FS]] or [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. However, I have noticed that currently there's a number of page formats depending on the respective contributor. I may not be so experienced with IMFDB like most of you, but it seems to me that it would make more sense to concentrate on developing a way to create a more uniform page format before we spend time on accepting more 'sexy' features. Pretty much like working on a house and spend time on the roof when the foundations have not been properly laid yet. Take care, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:29, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I totally agree with [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]]. I think what we really need is a single page that we can look at that has a template for everything. A section showing how to make a gun page. A section for actors, section for TV Shows, a section for Movies. That way we all know that this is the page everything should be based off of. This would be far better than saying "look at the M1911 page" because even pages like that have inconsistencies with formatting. The special page could even be put in the toolbar on the left side of the page under "toolbox". That would be amazingly helpful. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:57, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Bunni made a template for gun pages: [[Template:Gun]] That's how a newly created gun page should look like. Of course, the gun specifications sections can be expanded with other stuff, like barrel length (if a gun comes with 2 or more different barrels, like the [[Remington MSR]] for example), country of Origin, Designer and Manufacturer (if it is not in the title of the page, e.g. [[9A-91]]).
:And about the sortable tables: I think it is a bad idea. Why would anyone wanna sort a table on an actor page by the notation or character the actor was playing. Sorting by year is the best option IMHO, on both actor and gun pages. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:37, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:: I can see why you wouldn't want to sort by notation, and character would basically result in sorting by movie, but I can see how you would want to sort by what guns an actor has used instead of just what year. Also, one of the benefits of the sortable tables is that some of the older pages that are NOT sorted can be fixed by simply changing the class="wikitable" to class="sortable". As for the template, it does need to be expanded but we also need to find a way to make sure people know it's there and that all pages should follow it. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:17, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is proving to be a highly educational discussion for me as a rookie IMFDB user. Actually, this is the first time I learn about the template pages, and to be honest I fear I am not the only one. Instead of searching through the website, how about simply displaying links to the template pages everytime somebody clicks the button to create a new page? I am sure this will lead to increased uniformity and substantially lower the barrier for new people to get started on a page. Taking things one step further, how about the following? If somebody indicates to create a brand new page, a question box is displayed asking e.g. to make a choice between movie, actor, gun etc. so that after this choice the relating template pops up? Again, I am not sure if this is feasible but I am quite interested to hear your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:23, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::::I LIKE THIS IDEA!!! We definitely need to make a page that has all the templates listed. Right now its really hard to track down the templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:52, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Search for "<nowiki>Category:Templates</nowiki>" and it will show u all the templates. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:20, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::That helps but still that page needs to be publicized better. It also needs to be better explained. How are [[A-Team, The]] or [[MacGyver]] templates? When I create a new page, I find a good page and I copy the 'wiki code' from it into my new page and then just edit the text. My guess is this is what most people do and I feel like that is what we need. A page with dummy titles, names and guns for people to copy to a new page and work from. Thanks for letting me know about the Template page though. Didn't know that was there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::I think that Zackmann08 is hitting the nail on the head. Building on above comments, how about the following? On the left side of all pages there's the master menu table in blue ('CATEGORIES/SPECIAL/TOOLBOX'). In 'CATEGORIES' one can choose between Movies/Guns/Actors/etc so why not add something simple like 'Templates for New Pages'? If you click that, you'd see just 7 options for new pages; (1) Movie, (2) TV, (3) Anime, (4) Video, (5) Actor, (6) Gun and (7) Others (for whatever else can be 'templated'). Any choice would lead to one single template with dummy info and a short explanation on how to use it. This way an immediate and easy access to the templates will be realized, rather than (I am sorry to say) searching through several menu's in the Toolbox option and finding dozens of random templates. Interested to know what you guys think, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 05:21, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::::This sounds perfect to me! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:41, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:::::So, any volunteers willing and able to start on an addition to "Categories" with "Templates for New pages"? Am not too familiar with such revisions, but do we need authorization from anybody? --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 09:25, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Merry Christmas! ==

[[Image:IMFDB 2011 Christmas Card.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:22, 22 December 2011 (CST)

HAHAHA! I love it!

Merry Christmas guys :) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:05, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Brands Pages ==

I had an interesting idea that I was curious what others thought of. I was thinking it might be helpful to have a page that listed all the guns made by a certain company. For example, a "Smith & Wesson" page that would list all the guns that they have. To clarify, it would only list guns that are on this site. As per the rules this is NOT a gun encyclopedia and gun pages are only on this site if they appear in a movie/tv show/etc. I feel that it could be quite helpful in trying to identify weapons. We could divide the pages into Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Rifles, etc. just like a movie page and set it up as a table perhaps with some of the characteristics listed such as caliber(s), barrel length(s), etc. Would could even have a 'notes' column that list certain characteristics that help to identify it (for example for Taurus 92, "distinguished from the Beretta by its frame-mounted safety").

If this is an idea that people think might be useful, and if an admin will give me approval, I would love to create a trial page for one of the smaller companies. (I'd rather not do S&W to start with if it turns out people don't like it). I could perhaps start with Ruger which has a good number of guns. Please share your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:07, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:Sounds like an interesting plan. Thing is that quite often I see a gun and I have a general idea what brand it could be but then I find myself flipping through many gunpages in the IMFDB hoping that the gun I am looking for has been properly registered under that brand's name. In the case of e.g. Smith & Wesson (to name but a brand...) I can imagine such a page to be very useful. Will be following this discussion, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah it seems like it would be a good idea.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 10:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)

Trial page is up and running! I went ahead and did [[Ruger]]. I threw in a gallery as well. I'm not sure whether it's better have it right after the table or to put it at the bottom of the page or what. Please share all your thoughts on the page! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:23, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I think there is no need for the tables '''and''' galleries. Just simply put the caliber after the gun's name in the gallery. Like: "Ruger LCP - .380 ACP". Sorting gun's by type if definitely good, and seeing the thumbnail of the gun's will really speed up the IDing process (at least for me it will). The whole idea of these pages is great, considering that some guns (mostly Russians) are listed without the manufacturers' names. If more pages like this will spawn, we will need a "Gun Manufacturers" category, or something like that. I definitely support this idea, but the mods will decide. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I completely agree. The only thing is that some of these guns have 5+ calibers which could be cumbersome in the Gallery format... It would be great to have a 'Gun Manufacturers' category. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:25, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I also added the [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]] pages. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:44, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::You could put them in table but have the far right column be a picture (put in <nowiki>[[Image:file_name.jpg|200px]]</nowiki>). Would take up more vertical room than a gallery, but you could then include calibre, magazine size (helpfull for identifying different 5/6 shot cylinder revolvers, and differences between double/single stack handguns for example), year introduced (which would also help with ruling stuff out for IDs in older films/TV) etc. I suppose a notes catagory could also ,be usefull, say if a gun is available in multiple finishes and stuff like that. I think these pages are a good idea, but I think having the specifications section is a bit irrelevent for a company, I would just tag it on the end of "About". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 23 December 2011 (CST)

This is what you mean, Commando?
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Introduced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Remington MSR]]|| .338 Lapua Magnum<br>.338 Norma Magnum<br>.300 Winchester Magnum<br>7.62x51mm NATO || 5, 7, 10|| Late 2000s||[[Image:RemingtonMSR.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[XM2010|Remington XM2010 ESR]]|| .300 Winchester Magnum || 5|| 2010||[[Image:XM2010.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}
You are right BTW, the year and capacity can help a lot in IDing. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:THAT LOOKS AWESOME!!! I am sold... That is how I am doing it. Next question, what do we want to do about variants? For example with the [[FN FAL]] do we also list the [[FN LAR]] on the [[FN Herstal]] page or just the [[FN FAL]] and figure if you are trying to identify the gun you will go to the FN FAL page and look at the variants? Same goes for the [[FN SCAR]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:28, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, that's what I mean. I think this is more usefull than just a gallery, and also it would be a place where sortable tables would definitely be useful, as you could sort the guns by name or chronologically. For a while I've been meaning to do a table of all the Colt AR-15 variants for my own use, but would be good for the Colt page. AR-15s are kind of a special case as their are so many variants that are very similar at first glance, so would include more columns (like upper/lower receiver type, barrel length and profile, bayonet lug, stuff like that) so someone who didn't know much about different variants could sort the columns and work out what a gun is. Regardless if it ends up going on the Colt page, I'm going to make it and put it on my user page to see how it turns out.
::As for different variants I would list them as they can look noticeably different, as is the case with the FAR and the LAR (these are pretty distinctly different weapons, more of a grey area would be listing different FAL variants such as the 50.00, 50.61 and 50.63). With guns like the SCAR, I think the split should just be between the H and the L, not the different barrel lengths. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:43, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:::Fair enough. The other idea that I had was to add an additional column called "variants". This would be great for weapons like the MP5 which all have the same base. Got the idea from this wikipedia page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heckler_%26_Koch_products Heckler and Koch]. Glad to see so many people are taking a liking to this idea. I defiantly want to make it happen. Also, the AR-15 idea is a GREAT one. Perhaps a 1911 page as well. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:56, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::You talking like one page for ALL 1911 variants, or seperate pages for each 1911 company? But then how would we handle, say, an SW1911? Would it be on the S&W page, or the 1911 page? Or both?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:I've continued working on the three trial pages ([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]]). I have noticed that A LOT of these guns are missing the most basic information (no specifications). If anyone is looking for a task, that would be a great one. I will do my part once I get these pages fully up. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)
Loving the idea, I am considering making a SIG-Sauer trial page with the basics only, then going back later and adding in lesser known stuff. But I want to see how these pages come along!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)

'''Please keep in mind that the mods will decide. DO NOT create additional gun manufacturer pages until an approval comes from them. It will be a waste of time if they delete them later.''' - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:26, 24 December 2011 (CST)
::That is why I said wanted to see what happened to these pages first.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:19, 24 December 2011 (CST)
:Another thing that would be great, is if anyone wants to go through the trial pages (([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]], [[Heckler & Koch]] & [[FN Herstal]]) and make sure that each weapon has specifications on its page that would be great. As i was creating these pages I noticed that most of the weapons were lacking the most basic specifications and info. (This could be yet another use for these pages!) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:08, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::We had this discussion in the forum a long time ago, and the consensus was that it was NOT a useful means of classifying weapons on the site. Hence why I deleted the page originally. I'm still not sure it's all that useful. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 08:58, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::::I respectfully disagree. For someone like me who is a still a novice with guns it is exceptionally helpful when identifying weapons. This will be particularly true when it comes to things like the Smith and Wesson revolvers. It is often easy to identify the revolver is a Smith and Wesson but harder to know which model. If there is a single page that list all the Smith and Wesson revolvers it saves us from having to go through page by page. I just find it is so helpful to have one location where you can see a picture and the '''basics''' of the possible weapons. If it is helpful for some of us is it okay to leave these up? I will personally make sure that the pages are done in a professional looking manner and are not sloppily thrown together. I truly believe that (as long as they are done in the proper manner) they can make a fantastic addition to this already awesome website. (ok so that was a bit of kissing up but it's true, this site freaking rocks! :-) ) I'm also using this 'project' as an excuse to update many of these weapons so that their pages are in the correct format with specifications and descriptions.
::::I appreciate that I am still a new guy here and I '''really DO NOT''' want to be that guy who joins and says "nice thing you got going here but you should really change it because I know better." I DO NOT know better, please don't take this in that light. I am merely saying that there are a lot of people who would like to contribute but don't have the knowledge that some of you experts do. I think that this addition would help us novices contribute. I welcome your feedback. Oh, and a Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah to everyone! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:21, 24 December 2011 (CST)

I propose changing 'introduced' to 'produced' and having it be a to and from date. Basically how long the weapon was in productions for. 1995-2005 rather than just 1995 for example. Any thoughts?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Would love to hear some feedback from the admins on this project. I would like to continue with it but don't want to do a bunch of work and then have the pages removed. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:13, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Looks good. I'm a mod here. I really like the Colt page. The S&W page is going to be an intensive piece of labor for you. I agree with bunni. We need a category for these new pages. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:29, 27 December 2011 (CST)

I'm a mod as well and I really like what I'm seeing. This will be a lot of work but I think it will be quite an invaluable resource once it is finished, as long as it is done well. Kudos. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 21:51, 6 January 2012 (CST)

I started the [[SIG-Sauer]] page, and am about 3/4 done. Any help would be appreciated! Oh, and if anyone knows how to change the name of a page I would greatly appreciate for it to be renamed ''SIG-Sauer Inc.''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:33, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:[[SIG-Sauer]] is fine. According to Bunni we are not using "inc" or "LLC" in the page titles. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:34, 16 January 2012 (CST)

::That's fine, I wasn't sure if it was necessary or not.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:19, 16 January 2012 (CST)

== Battle Los Angeles ==

I have a question that I cant seem to get a good bead on, in the movie Battle Los Angeles Aaron Eckhart is seen using an m9 Beretta as his pistol,which I know is the main side arm used by US military forces. However, it was my understanding that the Marines used the 1911 as their sidearm and were the only branch to keep it as the main side arm. Eckhart's character in the movie is a grizzled old vet and had just put in for his 20 at the beginning of the movie meaning that he must have joined back in 1990-1991 and it would make sense to me why he would hold on to something like that. Either way please let me know what you got, thanks NavyBoyd
:For movie-specific discussions, please go to [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Talk:Battle:_Los_Angeles|the associated talk page]].--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 19:57, 23 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Page Templates ==

As part of the 'Gun Brands Pages' project (see above), I am also trying to make sure that each weapon included has specifications listed on its page. I am using the following as my template. If anyone thinks it is missing anything, please let me know. (Note that I made it a subheading with 3 '=' instead of the normal 2 '=' so that it wouldn't be its own category. normally it would just have 2.) I personally don't feel that Muzzle Velocity or effective range are necessary but I am up for input and critique. Just want to make sure I am doing this right! Merry Christmas everyone!
Oh and under FireModes I am including DA,SA,DAO,DA/SA if applicable. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:38, 25 December 2011 (CST)
<br><br><-- start template-->
===Specifications===
(year - year)

* '''Type:''' Handgun/Revolver/Submachine Gun/Sniper Rifle/etc.

* '''Caliber(s):'''

* '''Weight:''' lb ( kg) (empty)

* '''Length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Barrel length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Capacity:'''

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto/Full-Auto (950rounds/min)

-----
<--end template-->
:Another question that one of the veterans can help me out with. With guns that have Variations ([[Heckler & Koch P2000]] or [[Heckler & Koch USP]] for example), should each subcategory have its own specifications with the different length, capacity, etc. For example should the [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] have just one specifications section for the page or should there be one for the H&K P2000 and one for the H&K P2000SK. (This is the way I did the page but I want to make sure that this is ok. If I'm supposed to just do one section I will gladly correct it.) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 25 December 2011 (CST)

== I can't create a new thread in the forum ==

I logged into the forum and tried to create a new thread, but I get a message that says I don't have permission to access the page. I'm using a different username than I have used before, so is my account "awaiting activation?"--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 11:06, 1 January 2012 (CST)
:I had the same problem a few days ago. You want to talk to [[User:Bunni|Bunni]]. He'll fix it for ya. Happy new year. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:28, 1 January 2012 (CST)
::Thanks for your help. I followed your advice and left a message for Bunni over a week ago but he hasn't yet responded. Has he not been around lately?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 10:12, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== I think it's time to end the silencer/suppressor debate ==

I see this a lot, people correct other people "It's a suppressor, not a silencer. It doesn't silence the gun" and I think it really needs to stop. Way back in 1910, the first silencer was patented by Hiram Maxim as the '''SILENCER'''. Way back then, they weren't even that good compared to today's because the technology has been advanced on yet they were still called silencers. Them having the name silencer is just a name, after all there is a model of the Ithaca 37 called "Deer Slayer". It's a inanimate object which cannot slay deer. It can be used to kill deer however but the name doesn't fit it unless it operated on it's own to shoot deer. There are some people named Rose or Diamond but they aren't a flower or an expensive jewel. My point is with this is that it's just a name. Even today, the BATFE calls them silencers on the paper work and many companies that make them call them silencers. There is even a company called SilencerCO.

The reason why a lot of people call them suppressor is because in the 1970s the magazine, Soldier of Fortune, started calling them suppressors and giving the reason that I stated in the first sentence. Most people that I've seen that actually own them call them silencers and they have most likely done their research on them.

In conclusion, calling them silencers is not wrong and neither is calling them suppressors. You call them either and you're right. It's when you claim that silencer is the improper term. Silencer is just a name, it's the way it is.
--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:20, 9 January 2012 (CST)

: I personally prefer "suppressor", it's a nice, ''woody'', sort of word. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 13:51, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:: Yes, "silencer" is a name, but it's a misnomer. "Silencer" suggests absolutely no sound is produced when a shot is fired; "Suppressor" properly states that the sound will be muffled instead of completely silenced. It's the same as saying bullet-resistant instead of bulletproof. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 17:52, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::I don't see anyone complaining that their shotgun doesn't kill deer on it's own. IT'S A NAME and it's correct. .223 fires a .224 caliber bullet, are you going to complain about that too?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:37, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::::I agree. I think "Suppressor" sounds more accurate and professional. If it were a silencer, there would be little or no sound at all, which unless you use a suppressed .22 with half loads and a plastic bottle, is impossible, and even THAT makes a sound. I say we go with Suppressor.--[[User:Scattergun]]

:::::While "Silencer" is correct in general terms, the term "suppressor" is preferred largely because of the Hollywood concept of the "magic silencer" that literally makes a gunshot into the sound of a kitten sneezing. The "suppressor" term was coined to give a more realistic idea of what the device actually does; it suppresses the sound, it doesn't silence it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:05, 14 January 2012 (CST)

== NCIS: LA gun change? ==

The latest episode of NCIS: LA "Exit Strategy" the guns don't see to be the normal Sig 228s. The guns are still Sigs, but with rails, and Deeks was not carrying his normal Beretta. Deeks' weapon may have been the same S&W used in the episode "Empty Quiver". -Tucker

== Single or Double-Stack 1911? ==

Which is a better 1911 variant to have? A single stack or a double stack magazine. I heard somewhere that a 14-shot 1911 is more prone to jamming but I'm not sure. The reason is I am currently writing a script for an independent movie that me and my class will make and I have access to all kinds of guns, both blank-adapted and Japanese flash cap versions, and the main character is to carry a 1911 .45 and I was wondering what the more professional choice would be to carry.
:Personally I would go for a Kimber Custom II TLE or a Springfield Armoury TRP, both are single stackers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:58, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== Novel guns? ==

I know this may seem like a stupid idea, but should we include guns that feature in books? I have several books in my bookcase that go into great detail about guns, albeit sometimes they call sub-machine guns machine guns for some reason. (Seriously, how can you mix it up?) I'm new here, please go easy, but please give it some thought. They could either be on the book cover or featured in print inside. I know it would be pointless to include a screenshot of the text, but there are some pages on IMFDB that are just lists of guns and pictures of the guns themselves.
Alasdair

:Check out the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page. It will help set your straight. Good thing for new users to read (I found this out the hard way just a few weeks ago when I joined). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:35, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Ah, I see. Thanks. Alasdair.

== Manufacturer Pages ==

With more people starting to work on Manufacturer Pages, I'm working on making a template for the pages ([[Manufacturer Template]]). I am going to add a link to it from the <nowiki>[[Category:Manufacturer]]</nowiki> page. I figure this will help to make sure that they all stay consistent. (Note: not all of the pages that I have already made conform to the standards that I listed on the template, I will be fixing that in the next few days.) My goal is to make sure that these pages look professional and are useful! If anyone, particularly admins, has things that would like to add to the pages or to correct with future pages, please edit the template accordingly. Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:41, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Glock Manufacturer's Page ==

I was getting ready to make the Glock page for the new Manufacturers category and ran into a small problem. The new page would ideally be called ''Glock'' but that is already taken by the [[Glock]] page which has all their guns. I definitely think this page would be helpful (at least I know it would I'd find it useful) as it will help you decide whether you are looking at a G17 or a G21. I welcome any and all ideas and suggestions. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:54, 19 January 2012 (CST)
:The actual company is trademarked in all capitals as GLOCK so you could do that. Either that or you could put "manufacturer" in brackets after it, or make this the one exception where you put on the crap after the name, in this case "Ges.m.b.H.". If not that, I don't think a manufacturer page is as important for Glocks as other brands, as they are all already on the same page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:05, 19 January 2012 (CST)
::All good ideas. I'll prolly just go with (manufacturer). I agree that its not as important but it could still be super useful. I think I'm going to add a 'frame' column like we did with the S&W revolvers. This time it will have "Compact" "Standard", "SubCompact", etc.. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:29, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Taurus ==

I am in the process of redoing all the [[Taurus]] gun pages. Giving them all specifications, converting to wiki-table, etc. If there are any Taurus aficionados in the house who are willing and able to fill in the information that I am having trouble finding (mainly production dates), that would be great! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:15, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Beretta ==

I'm in the process of making the [[Beretta]] page. My understanding is that for Semi-Automatic pistols we DO NOT include "Model" in the page title, [[Beretta 418]] for example. There are a few pages that are not consistent with this pattern. Just want to make sure that they are all named correctly and follow the same rules. Could an admin look into this? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Proper name for CZ ==

It has been brought to my attention that the new Manufacturer page for [[CZ]] may not be properly named. The full name of the manufacturer is "Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod". I am hesistant to use this name for a couple reasons. 1) Its kind of a pain to type on a 'standard' keyboard. 2) Most people (I THINK) know the company as "CZ". One possible compromise I'm considering is renaming the page "CZ (Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod) and having "CZ" redirect there. I would love to hear some thoughts on the matter. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:45, 25 January 2012 (CST)
:I would use the full name with a redirect, but if you are calling it CZUB rather than Česká zbrojovka, that would exclude at least a couple of guns, such as the vz. 24 which was made by Československá zbrojovka Brno. I'm no expert on CZ, but it was my understanding that any words after the "Česká zbrojovka" part were just different factories, or is this wrong? While talking about proper names for gun pages, what should the page be called if the manufacturer has changed its name or merged? For example, when I made the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]] page I used the original name rather than Royal Ordnance. However I was going to make a Denel Land Systems page, which was originally called Lyttleton Engineering Works, but the Denel name is much more commonly known so didn't know what to use. Any suggestions for a general rule on this sort of thing? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:23, 25 January 2012 (CST)
::I think we definitely need a [[CZ]] expert to take a look at this page... Any volunteers??? As for the different names, first and foremost, whatever the page ends up being, there should be redirects form all the others. So for example [[Royal Ordnance]] should redirect to the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]]. Also, whatever the final name of the page ends up being, there should be a short explanation about the fact that it is "Also Known As ______" or "Formally Known As ____". As for a general rule, while I think it would be best to go with what the company is most commonly known as, in the end, that is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think the rule of thumb should be to go with what the company is currently known as (use the company website?) and have other names redirect there. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
::As a side note, while talking about redirect, I'm also trying to set up redirects for these pages that will help newcomers when searching the site. For example, if you search S&W now, instead of getting a page listing all the times that that the letters 'S' and 'W' appear on a page, you are now taken to the [[Smith & Wesson]] page. Just food for thought. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:36, 25 January 2012 (CST)
what exactly do you want to know about the CZ? I grew up in czechoslovakia, we used to carry these handguns in the army.

==A question about a bolt ==

Off-topic, but could anyone ID this bolt? http://www.forgottenweapons.com/mystery-bolt
Thanks, a relatively new and inexperienced user.

==Site Policy On 'Made Up' Weapons==
Could someone please clarify the site's policy on guns fabricated for films and videogames? I've edited articles on the Killzone games in the past only to have the articles taken down altogether because the guns featured aren't real. Now I'd accept that as fair enough, except other articles (e.g. [[Alien: Resurrection]] and [[Perfect Dark]]) deal with non-existent weapons at some length and nobody complains, even though some of the weapons they describe feature far ''less'' in common with real guns than the Killzone games' weapons did; at least many of those featured parts that were readily identifiable as belonging to real-world weapons. By deleting one and sparing the others, you're creating something of a double standard--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 09:56, 31 January 2012 (CST)

== Gun Title Template ==

Is there any way to get rid of the '''<nowiki><br clear=all></nowiki>''' that results from using the Gun Title template? I noticed that it can cause some problems when the gun in question has multiple images as there will be a bunch of white space before the list of occurrences. For an example of what I mean look at [[Smith & Wesson Model 610]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:14, 1 February 2012 (CST)

== Gangster Squad ==

Since I can't create a thread in the forum I decided to post this here.

The upcoming movie Gangster Squad will be released this year, and someone managed to record scenes being filmed, then posted the videos on Youtube. A couple of the videos feature shootouts.

This first one shows the "Gangster Squad" involved in a firefight and has a lot of M1 Thompson action:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlUBrd0uTc&feature=endscreen&NR=1 Gangster Squad 1]

The second video shows what I'm assuming are gangster-types, which is shot too far away to make positive ID's on all the weapons, but I think I know what most of them are. Two of them are using the usual Thompsons, but the guy kneeling between the cars seems to have a Sten, judging by the way he's holding it. There's another guy firing an smg, which due to the way he's holding it and it's rate of fire, I think is either an MP-40 or M-3. It's impossible to tell because he's obscured by a car. I'm pretty sure the guy up in the building is using a Lewis Gun.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xf0iEgtzBw&feature=related Gangster Squad 2]

I love these period crime movies, and this one looks really promising. What I'm seeing in these videos suggests there will be some great shootouts in this movie, and I just hope that's what we actually get in the final cut--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 09:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

== How do i add upload an image here? ==

I have gun to add, how do i add an image of it?

Also, how do i create a user page for myself?

Sorry if i am in the wrong section. If so, then please guide me to the right section.

:Look to the left; under Toolbox is upload file. To edit your user page, go to the top of the screen, where it has your username, followed by My Talk, My Preferences, ect. Click your username (red means there is nothing there yet).--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:38, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Fictional Airsoft Guns ==

Just noticed that on the [[Milkor MGL]] page there is an entry for the [[Milkor_MGL#CAW_40mm_Grenade_Launcher|CAW 40mm Grenade Launcher]], an airsoft grenade launcher. It seems random that it is on this page as it is a fictional design that shares basically nothing with the Milkor. Are there many other fictional airsoft variants that appear in stuff (only one I can think of off the top of my head is that weird AKS-74U variant that is in Call of Duty), if so is it worth creating a page for fictional airsoft guns that do not have a real world equivalent? I previously made a similar page for [[Blank Fire Only Guns]] that are not based on any specific live fire weapon, would be like that. Anyone have any thoughts on this? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:56, 7 February 2012 (CST)

- Personally, I think if it resembles the weapon, even if its fictional, it should share the page at the bottom. After all, the Bruni 1911 and the Bruni Python aren't real guns but they share a page with their real world Colt counterparts. At least thats how I feel about it. -[[User:Scattergun]]

:That is different to what I am talking about though. The very reason that the two guns you mentioned are where they are (at the bottom of the live fire equivalent page) rather than on the blank fire page is that they are clearly based on real world guns. The Bruni Olympic 6 however isn't based on any particular real world design and is just a generic revolver, hence it being on the blank fire page. My idea was that airsoft guns that are not based on any particular gun, such as the grenade launcher I mentioned above, could be put on one page for ID and listing purposes. My question really was are there enough "unique", for lack of a better term, airsoft guns around to make a page like this worth it? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:10, 7 February 2012 (CST)

== Naming conventions for SIG guns ==

Now that I have finished the S&W pages, I am moving on to revamping the SIG Sauer pages. I wanted to get feedback, particularly from admins, about the consisten disagreement about SIG vs SIG Sauer vs SIG-Sauer and see if we could come to a consensus. Some of the page have the full '''SIG-Sauer''' in the title ([[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] & [[SIG-Sauer P230]]) while other simply have '''SIG''' ([[SIG P210]] & [[SIG SG 540]]). If for no other reason than to make sure that FUTURE pages are done correctly, which is the proper format? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:49, 9 February 2012 (CST)
:It's not a matter of shorthand, the correct title depends on the firearm in question. The pistols with SIG-Sauer as the title were made by SIG-Sauer Inc., while the ones with SIG as the title were made by SIG independently, not with Sauer. Generally, the older guns (P210 & 510) are made by SIG only or Swiss Arms (which refers to themselves as SIG), while newer guns are SIG-Sauer. What I suppose I'm trying to say is that the titles are accurate as-is. As to whether the admins want SIG-Sauer or SIG Sauer is beyond me, although as they are two companies joined together I'm pretty sure there would be a hyphen.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:27, 9 February 2012 (CST)
::OOOOOHHHHHHHHH!! That makes so much more sense.... I never actually realized that SIG and Sauer were 2 separate companies that merged. Thank you SO much for that explanation!
::Given that, disregard my initial question! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 00:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
:::Having said that, I still think all of the page that say "SIG-Sauer" should get rid of the hyphen and say "SIG Sauer", as this is how both the Swiss/German and American companies spell it. If there is an actual reason for adding in a hyphen then fair enough, but has always seemed a bit random to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
Taken directly from the [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] page: ''NOTE: In the past, some IMFDB users have mis-spelled "SIG-Sauer" as "Sig Sauer". "Sig Sauer" is not the correct spelling; "SIG" is an acronym for Swiss Industrial Society ("Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft " in German), and thus, all three letters should be capitalized. Also, it is preferred that IMFDB users put a hyphen between "SIG" and "Sauer".''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:23, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:I've seen the message that putting the hyphen in is the preferred method on imfdb, but I don't understand why this is. As I said, neither the US or swiss/german companies use the hyphen so why do we? If it is a formatting reason or something technical that I don't understand then fair enough, but otherwise I think it should be deleted. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:09, 12 February 2012 (CST)
::I have to agree with Commando here... Both Wikipedia and http://www.sigsauer.com/ list it as '''SIG Sauer'''. Why was the decision made to include the Hyphen here? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:36, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Television wikitable ==

Up until now I have been using the following table for any pages that I convert from list format to table format:
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' / "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
I was considering modifying this to give '''Episode''' its own column. I wanted to see what people thought of this idea...
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Episode(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' || "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
Any feedback is appreciated. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 01:26, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:I've been combining the episode and note columns. I think I picked that up from Ben. That always made sense for me because episode info or notes are sometimes missing or unnecessary, while Show Title is ALWAYS present. I've always tried to supply episode info, and it could get a little tight when it's in there with the show name. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 01:42, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Sako vs SAKO ==

I want to come to another consensus here... Is it SAKO or Sako? I.E. [[SAKO 85 Hunter]] vs [[Sako TRG-21]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:40, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:It's an acronym (Suojeluskuntain Ase- ja Konepaja Oy), which would suggest all caps. If you go to the US website, the page is titled "SAKO Finland." Strangely enough, if you go to the "Company" link, they refer to themselves as just "Sako." --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:36, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Companies w/ one single product ==

I have always wondered, what about those companies that have only one single product, like AMSD, Rafael, DRS Precisions,... (I am sure there is more) Can they have a Manufacturer page or not? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:53, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:Can they? Yes... Should they? No... Just my humble opinion... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:49, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Featured Articles ==

Question for our admins regarding the featured articles on the main page. What is the process for becoming a featured article? I know that for obvious reasons (preventing vandalism, etc.) the [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] is locked, but is there a way for us non-admins to suggest new articles? Could we perhaps set something up whereby non-admins could post an addition in the discussion page for [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] and if an admin approves of the addition, it could then be added into the mix? I really do love the random articles that pop up on the front page but as a very frequent visitor, seeing the same images over and over starts to get a little boring... Even just changing the images for a given "Featured Article" would be nice. For example, keeping [[The Unit]] (one of the best articles on the site) as a featured article but choosing 2 different images to be displayed. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:34, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Wannabe Indie game dev has some questions ==

I'm looking into making a simple target range simulator, most likely in a software like Unity3d or Coppercube which i have experience in. I am however unsure if entire realism is a good or possibly bad move, not only for game-play, but also because I feel it wouldn't have that... special feeling of a video game, when you play a role playing game for example, they all have their own mood. Pokemon is not Final Fantasy is not The Elder Scrolls. My main concern is how all target range simulator's I've played always go graphics realism, but the shooting mechanics tend to be surreal. This makes it not very fun for many people, people who like goals in their games get to set high scores, but not much else. People who possess firearm knowledge are easily ticked off by the fact that it is trying to be real, but lacks true realism due to all sorts of game-play errors. So while this may seem far fetched, my idea is simple. Mix a realistic (game-play) target range with surreal and almost child-like simple 3d graphics and a basic plot. For those familiar with the concepts in Pokemon, the player character has two primary goals, to collect info on all the monsters, and to defeat all the gym leaders and then the elite four. Target ranges would be like gyms, each has people who you can challenge to accuracy, fastest shot, and other contests of skill. While traveling from range to range, you can collect more firearms, not in grass, but from vendors and helping people with small side-quests, etc. I doubt this kind of a game would receive much, if any audience, particularly being that it's too serious and gun-friendly in content for most children (or more specifically, their parents) to buy, and it's far too childish in graphics for Adults. It's a happy middle where it's a game i would personally love to play, and hopefully so would a few others out there somewhere. All in all, I think a target range and competition based collection RPG with a heavy emphasis on gameplay and fun while still maintaining key aspects of gun culture would be a unique game. (things like policing your brass to be reused with powder and appropriate caliber bullets as a cheaper way to procure and load ammunition, maybe even allowing you to tweak the amount of powder that way). It's hard to explain the whole concept as I haven't nailed every little thing down yet. I was planning on starting the project on a smaller scale, then slowly adding more. So is this a good idea or am i barking up the wrong tree? I'd love to do full realism, but I honestly want the game to be atleast partially fun or stylized. (I am not looking for help making this game, I merely want feedback on the ideas) (I also hope I did not break anything by posting this, I am unfamiliar with wiki editing, and I am relying on your guides.) --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 12:31, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:First thing: please post "I am not a bot" after this message before you post anything else on this wiki. Your message seems a little...out of place, and I want to check it's not automated spam. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:44, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Not a bot, Sorry for any confusion based on the ludicrous idea and my unusual name choice. I couldn't find any other place where i could... Oh. you have a forum. How did i miss that? Sorry. Seems so obvious now that it's glaring at me on the left. And now I forgot to sign. --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:07, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Email confirmed on forums, but now Posting Rules: You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts... Whaaa? --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:12, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:::Unfortunately the automatic approvals don't work for some reason, you'll need to leave a message on [[User:Bunni]]'s talk page to get approved. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:06, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== Top Shot ==

For all you [[Top Shot]] fans, we have a new viewer of IMFDB. I just got re-tweeted by Colby Donaldson... He's checking out the page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:16, 22 February 2012 (CST)
:Haha, that's great!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:18, 22 February 2012 (CST)

== SOCOM 4 ==
Anyone agree it would would a great idea to add Socom 4 with the other SOCOM games in the video game category?--[[User:Commandoninja137|Commandoninja137]] 21:28, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== CSI ==

I am in the process of trying to redo the [[CSI]] pages. There are a LOT of guns used in these series. I feel like they deserve as much attention as the [[NCIS]] pages which are awesome at the moment. If anyone has any of the seasons on DVD and is interested in helping that would be awesome. I just finished [[CSI: NY - Season 7]] and am preparing to do season 6. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:46, 24 February 2012 (CST)

== New "Current" template ==

So we already have a number of awesome templates for labeling pages. The '''Upcoming''' template for stuff that hasn't been released yet. The '''Work in Progress''' template for pages that someone is currently working on. Anyone have any thoughts on making a new template for pages that are currently being updated? For example, the current season of [[NCIS]] or the current season of [[Hawaii Five-0]]. There not exactly "upcoming" because the upcoming template specifically says "all images are from trailers" and they aren't exactly a work in progress... Just a thought. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:20, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== New category: "Containing Unidentified Firearm"? ==

I was just wondering if it would make sense to create a new category "Containing Unidentified Firearm" for movies that contain a gun that cannot be identified by the page creator. This way, anybody (like me...) who gets a kick out of identifying a gun that other people could not, can very efficiently assist others to complete pages. If you guys think it's a good idea, any suggestions how to create/promote this category? Thanks for any comments, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:43, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was thinking about that just last night... I think its a GREAT idea! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:32, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::Great! Could you advise on the following; (1) what would be a good name? (2) how to create that category? and (3) how can I get other users to start using the category? Look forward to hear from you, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:49, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I would advise talking to a few admins before doing anything else. We wanna get feedback from them before proceeding. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:38, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::::A good name for this category might be "Movies with unidentified guns" or "Featuring unknown weapons" or something like that. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:16, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::I agree that something like this would be a good idea. Something to bear in mind though, there are a lot of pages with unidentified guns on this site, most of the time because they are only seen partially, briefly, from a distance or in poor lighting, or just due to the fact that they may be "generic" looking (I bet there are a hell of a lot of pages on here that say "unidentified revolver"). With most of these guns it will be impossible to get a firm ID so the tag will remain there forever, meaning that if someone wanted to try and be helpful and ID a few guns 99% of them would be a vaguely pistol shaped shadow (if it was a chronological list this would be less of a problem but categories are alphabetised). I think a better solution might be to have a discussion page somewhere where people can post caps of unidentified guns they have found whilst building pages, adding the new unidentified gun at the top of the page. This way you would be able to periodically purge the guns that are unidentifiable (e.g. speck in the distance) and would allow discussion between people to help ID the guns. I think it would also be a more successful way of getting unknown guns identified, as if you are good at IDing guns you can just watch this hypothetical page and see whenever a new unidentified gun crops up, as opposed to with a category where you don't know (as for as I know) when something has been added to it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
Commando makes a good point. I propose a middle ground. There is a difference between "'''I''' cannot identify this gun" and "this gun cannot be identified". A gun that is only seen for a split second may not be identifiable and may simply be called an "unknown" revolver/pistol/etc. Pages that have those types of guns would NOT fall under this category. On the other hand, if you are working on a page and dont know what some of the guns are, you can add the tag and that will be a clue to some of our more experienced members to swoop in and help out. I'm in the process of capping all 20+ seasons of the 3 [[CSI]]s and there are a LOT of guns (particularly revolvers) that I can't identify but from time to time senior members come in and identify them. It would be great to tag these pages until either a) all guns are identified or b) a determination is made that 1 or more guns simply cannot be identified from the images provided. Basically I look at this as a variation of the WorkInProcess template. The page is done, all guns are uploaded, but not everything has been identified. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:56, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:Check out the template... [[Template:Unidentified]] --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:44, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::As long as it was only used for guns that could be identified if you knew what they were rather than guns you don't see properly it would probably be helpful. Still, would be nice if there was some way of doing it chronologically so you could see when a new thing with unidentified guns is added. Just throwing it out there, here is another possible image to use for the unidentified guns template. I think it looks more like a question mark and is actually made from real weapons (a Korobov TKB-022 and a No. 74 sticky bomb). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:06, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::[[File:Question mark 2.jpg|thumb|50px|none|]]
:::AWWW but i spent so much time making that quesiton mark just right!!! Grrr... Yorus is better tho... :-p --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:29, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
I like the idea and the templates, but rather than make it too complicated trying to get the question mark perfect, what if we just put a gun overlaying a simple, perfectly recognizable question mark. I like the idea of making the gun into a question mark, but I really have to look in order to see it on those. If I had any idea how to make one, I would.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:59, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:I don't mind if the question mark gun thing isn't used, in fact a regular blacked out background photo of a gun would be better as would be more in keeping with the other templates, but what is the perfect "unknown" gun that the majority of people cannot identify? [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Gun_Cylon_stunt.jpg This]? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::We could use something like that, or what about a blurry outline of a gun in front of a question mark? I think that the question mark makes the template identifiable, rather than just the words 'Unidentified Firearm' across the middle.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I like [[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]]'s idea. We definatly want to keep the question mark up there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:05, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Since the majority of unidentified guns I've seen are revolvers, why not make it a S&W Model 27 or a Colt Official Police (or some other revolver... I dislike the idea of using a weird gun for some reason). Maybe make it a Vz 58? It looks like an AK to the untrained eye, and would be mistaken for such if not for the people on this website. Inside joke, huh? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:24, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Thanks for all your input, what a short post from me a week ago can cause hahaha I like the 'Unidentified' logo and I have put it on top all movies where somebody else may be able to identify a gun I could not, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 13:19, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

== Infoboxes. ==

I am interested in trying to get the [[Template:Infobox Movie|Movie Infobox]] more widely used on the site. I think that ''if it is done well'' it could be very useful on the pages. One of the best features of wikipedia (IMHO) is the infoboxes which give you the basic information at a glace without needing to search the page. I would love some input from people, particularly the admins, regarding how best to make these infoboxes better. I want to make sure that the information they list is useful and valid, not just text filler and puff. Post your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:51, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

== The idea to change the page ==

The idea to change the page. An example of the new page. The rest of the site will have a basic table.

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>MP40 Gallery</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=450px perrow=2>
Image:MP40.jpg|MP40 - 9x19mm
Image:MP40Side.jpg|MP40 submachine gun - 9x19mm
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=== Specifications ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-
<div style="text-align=center">
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Category'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="650"|'''Data'''
|-
|'''Place of origin || Nazi Germany
|-
|'''Production''' || 1940 - 1944
|-
|'''Manufacturer''' || [[Erma Werke]]
|-
|'''Caliber''' || 9mm
|-
|'''Cartridge''' || 9x19mm Parabellum
|-
|'''Weight''' || 4 kg (8.82 lb)
|-
|'''Length''' || 833 mm (32.8 in) stock extended / 630 mm (24.8 in) stock folded
|-
|'''Barrel length''' || 251 mm (9.9 in)
|-
|'''Rate of fire''' || 500 rounds/min
|-
|'''Effective range''' || 70 m
|-
|'''Feed system''' || 32-round detachable box magazine / 64-round with dual magazines
|}

Do you like someone, such a proposal? It should be applied to each side of the gun?--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 14:51, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

This is an example of the new layout. It is more clear and transparent. You can change the way every weapon in the service. >>[[MG81]]<< How do you like it? --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 16:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:This new format has not been approved and please change your entry in the [[MG81]] into the correct format already established. Please place your suggestion for a change in the [[Talk:MG81|MG81 Discussion]] page. Unfortunately this table is too big and would make the gun pages too cluttered. We also have many different pictures of guns that don't have both sides photographed. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 19:06, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== New idea to help identify guns ==

So a while ago I started the Manufacturer pages as a way to help identify guns. I had another idea that I wanted to try on for size with people. Recently, I was working on [[CSI: Miami - Season 9]] and came across a submachine gun that I didn't recognize. I immediately went to the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page but was forced to go through every link trying to find the one that I was looking for.

What do you guys think of adding a gallery of some sort to the Category pages that shows the BASIC models of the guns included? When I say basic I mean that we wouldn't need an image of the MAC-10, MAC-11 and Cobray M11/9. Seeing the basic MAC-10 would be enough to direct you to the MAC-10 page where you can figure out whether the gun you are looking at is in fact a MAC-10 or one of the other variants. Similarly, an image of any one of the MP5s would suffice, we wouldn't need images of each of the variants.

If I can get the okay from at least one admin, I would love to try this out on the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page and see what you all think. :-)
(Note that I also posted this in the forum).

--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:19, 17 March 2012 (CDT)

:YOU MUST IMPLEMENT THIS ON ALL THE WEAPON CATEGORY PAGES. Sorry about the caps lock, this is just such an awesome idea, and it turned out so well on the submachine gun page. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 18:40, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::HAHAHAHA!!!! I'm glad you liked it. Give a few days, lets get some more reaction but I agree with you, particularly since it doesn't involve creating a new page, its just taking advantage of a page that already exist. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:43, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

Another thing that could reduce the time looking at gun images is the creation of new gun categories, like "Pocket Pistol", "Light Machine Gun", "Civilian Rifle", "IAR" and stuff like this. This could help filter the guns more. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 18:02, 19 March 2012 (CDT)
:I like that idea. Take a look at how I did the [[Sniper Rifles]] page. I split it up by Bolt Action, Semi-Auto and other. I was thinking of doing the same thing when I do the files section with an additional category for Lever action. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:33, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

One thing that I am defiantly going to need help with is making sure that these tables stay updated. If and when new guns are added to the site, we need to make sure that they get added to the appropriate tables. If you guys can help me keep an eye on the "Recently Added Pages" section that would be great! Also, I just finished the [[Shotguns]] section. I wasn't sure what to do about the [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]]s page so for now I just left it out of the gallery. Input is welcome! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:04, 20 March 2012 (CDT)
:Maybe you should add a "Dual-Mode" section to the list and place the SPAS-12, SPAS-15, and Benelli M3 there. (Or list them in both pump and semi sections) And semi-auto and full-auto SGs should be separated. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:18, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

::Don't want to over complicate things by adding more categories than are necessary. I did put the SPAS-12 in both but I didnt realized that the SPAS-15 and Benelli M3 also fit under both sections. As for the Submachine Guns, there aren't many that are semi-auto only so let's keep them all together. Plus, that is not a main identifying feature since many "Semi-Auto Only" guns are converted for a movie. The point is to help identify the guns. The fact that a shotgun is Pump-Action vs Semi-Auto is very obvious during a movie and will help in identifying the gun. Also, with the exception of dual mode shotguns such as the SPAS-12, these guns can't be converted (at least not the same way an armorer can convert a semi-auto gun to full-auto). In other words, you will never see a semi-auto [[Ithaca 37]] but you could see a full-auto [[Steyr SPP]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:00, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

I'm in the process of working on the handguns section. I am going to need a LOT of feedback on this and will warn you ahead of time that it is going to be VERY cluttered when it is first uploaded. I think I am up to 5 categories at the moment: Compact, Standard, Long, Target and Other. I may split the "compact" into Pocket and Compact but we'll see what it looks like when I'm done. I'm just doing the code in notepad for the moment so that I can upload it in one move instead of in drips and drabs. Keep the feedback coming! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:27, 22 March 2012 (CDT)
:Just completed the [[pistols]] page. I would love some help checking it. I'm sure there are AT LEAST a few typos. I'm sure i mislabeled an image or something so any help is welcome! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:21, 22 March 2012 (CDT)

I propose to add a bookmark with additions to the weapons. Accessories such as scopes, grenade launchers, flashlight. This is to be a gallery through which everyone will be able to recognize included in addition to weapons. All containers in one gallery.--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 05:18, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Guns selected for TV and Movies are not realistic ==

This is a great database and I salute the creators and contributors. But looking through the handguns used in TV and movies, they don't represent what real criminals would be using. In real life we'd see criminals with a lot of Hi-Points; Tauruses; Bersas etc not SIGs;H&K;Kimber;Sphinx;Walther and other expensive handguns. I don't know who is making the selection of handguns for TV and movies but I laugh every time I see a two bit hood in a show who is holding a pricey pistol when in real life he'd probably be carrying some cheap gun with no serial number so he can later ditch it or sell it. Whether it's the prop master or director or producer or if there are kick backs in some way I don't know but it would be nice to see mainly police procedurals use guns that real perps would use.

Again this is not a criticism of the database, you just report what firearms appeared in a series or film. Keep up the good work ![[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Actually, it's been determined that criminals prefer to use the best guns they can get their hands on (usually illegally). This means that while a criminal could go buy some Raven Arms piece of shit, they'll probably just break into somebody's home, look for a gun safe, and hope they get lucky with what's inside. Besides, if you're going to commit a crime with a gun, why buy one and get your name in the system at all? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 04:37, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

Last data I saw was most illegal weapons were not acquired by theft but on the black market, originally purchased through straw purchases. Forensics labs see all types of guns that are used in crimes, not just top of the line ones. Guns used in crimes often disappear, I don't see most criminals carrying expensive ones that will disappear or get resold after a crime. I'm just pointing out that the handguns in TV and movies are beautiful but if the producers are aiming for realism the weapons don't match the streets.[[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:I read an ATF report from a few years ago that stated that the most common pistols used in illegal activity were S&W revolvers and automatics, Ruger automatics, and cheap things like Raven Arms, Lorcin and Bryco automatics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:02, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== P226 Beavertail ==

I am attempting to ID a pistol that is used in multiple seasons of [[CSI: Miami]] ([[CSI:_Miami_-_Season_6#Unknown_SIG-Sauer|Shown Here]]). It seems that it might be a discontinued variant of a [[SIG-Sauer P226]] known as a "P226 Beavertail". Has anyone heard of such a gun? Better yet, anyone have a picture of such a gun?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:54, 7 April 2012 (CDT)
:I already posted this on the talk page for CSI Miami, but I might as well post it here too. The picture on SIG's website under the P220 Beavertail is actually a P226 Beavertail, evidenced by the double stack bulges and P226 written on the grips and slide.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:10, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

==Need some help==

I changed the skin for IMFDB to a different skin... and only afterwards realized the there was no way to change it back. Also, the majority of the links and buttons normally present (including discussion page links) are gone. I can't even access my user account to change it back. Can anybody help me out (such as by providing me with a link to the preferences page so I can change the skin back)? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 01:43, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

==Charles Askins Jr. "Unrepentant Sinner"==

'''I'm sure that several of you know who Charles Askins was. He was controversial and he still is thirteen years after his death. Here is something I found that Massad Ayoob wrote about Askins in 1999. Of course Ayoob is controversial in his own right.'''

''American Handgunner, Nov-Dec, 1999 by Massad Ayoob

The death of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. last year closed a hell-for-leather life that lasted nine decades. He was a national pistol champion, one of the first winners of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award and a big game hunter with an impressive collection of trophies from all over the world. He aggressively sought out maximum action in his careers, first as a lawman and then as a soldier.

He was also a stone cold killer. For those of us who knew him, there was just no gentler way to put it.

Charlie's contemporary, Bill Jordan, once said that killing your first man is the hardest and after that it gets easier, but for a certain kind of man, it can get too easy. Some thought old Bill was talking about Charlie. Not without reason did Askins title his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner.Any future history of 20th century gunfighters will have to devote a substantial chapter to Cal. Askins. The son of a prominent hunter and gunwriter, Junior followed in Senior's footprints and left some marks deeper than his dad.

Charles Askins, Jr. killed dozens of men, both in war and on the streets. When asked for an official body count, the Colonel replied, "Twenty-seven, not counting [blacks] and Mexicans."

Askins was bright, thoughtful and without fear, but he had a darker side. The man's prejudices spoke for themselves. Charlie once confessed to a friend that he thought he was a psychopathic killer, and that he hunted animals so avidly because he wasn't allowed to hunt men anymore.He was sometimes too willing to kill. A reading of Unrepentant Sinner shows confessions to murder and manslaughter. Yet among the many Askins gunfights, there were also acts of heroism, shootouts against the odds that he won with his coolness under fire and his deadly marksmanship.

He spent a lot of his life teaching assorted Good Guys to win firefights, and when the Final Ledger is tallied, one hopes that is taken into account on the credit side.

Askins learned early that a rifle or shotgun always beats a sidearm when trouble is in the offing. His favorites included the lever action Savage Model 99 in caliber .250/3000. For close work, he was partial to the Remington Model 11, a clone of the Browning 12 gauge Automatic-5, with an extended magazine. Night sights not yet being available, he tied a white bandage around the muzzle to index the weapon in the dark.

Askins put the speed of fire to good use. He wrote of one shootout in east El Paso, where he employed a Winchester .351 semiautomatic carbine:

"One night at the foot of Piedras Street, which runs slapbang into Cordoba Island, a team of Patrol officers watched a gang of smugglers scramble out of the willows in the river bottom and pile their load of liquor into an old Hudson sedan.

"Then the cargadores turned and raced nimbly for the protection of the Mex side of the line. Three cholos piled into the old car and commenced to drive away. The BP vehicle pulled up beside the runner's vehicle and with guns drawn, we motioned the driver to halt."The Hudson came to a stop just as I set foot on the ground. The officer who was in the rear seat also alighted. The driver of the gov't vehicle threw the door open on the left side and hit the ground. He stepped down just as a gunman sitting beside the driver of the old Hudson swung a Model 94 carbine behind the driver's head and let go at the Patrol officer in front.

"He was struck in the head by the .38/55 bullet and fell dead. The bullet broke up in his skull and a major fragment exited and by a strange coincidence struck the patrolman alighting from the back seat in the head. It did not kill him, but knocked him unconscious.

"Thus in the space of two heartbeats and with only a single round, the contrabandista had knocked out two patrolmen and had only myself to contend with.

"I ran round behind the smuggler's car and opened fire. I shot the gunman through the eye, the bullet exiting through his temple. I kept right on firing and shot the driver through the kidneys. He later died. A third smuggler in the back seat cautiously poked a sixshooter up over the back seat and got shot through the hand for his pains.

"By this time I was busy reloading. The gunman, despite the fact that he had a bullet through his right eye which had passed out through his temple, managed to pull the driver from beneath the wheel and with him out of the way, got in the driver's seat and drove the old sedan for a couple of blocks down the street where he crashed it into a tree.

"The Border Patrol in those days, as I have said, had no radio communication. I cranked up the old patrol car, after loading the dead and wounded, and got to a telephone and called Patrol headquarters. Before the night was done the trio, the dead and wounded, were all rounded up. It had been a big evening. I did not feel much regrets over the loss of the patrolman. I had never liked him much anyway. The second lad, who had picked up a jacket fragment, was not seriously hurt."

On another night, Askins used the Remington autoloading shotgun, loaded with the 00 buckshot he called "blue whistlers." He recounted:

"They came out of the shadows and, as it was brightest moonlight, I could see every manjack had a long gun in his hands. We let them get up to within nine paces of us and I fired the first shot.

"I had the old Remington with its 9shot magazine and I knocked down the first two rannies in as many shots. I then switched my attention to the other three who did not like the heat. They ran back into Mexico, a distance of about 60 yards and opened fire.

"An interesting facet of this little exchange was that the lobo in the lead had an old Smith & Wesson .44 Russian. Despite the fact that he had a load of my 00 buckshot through his middle and one of the boys had hit him spang on the breastbone with a .351 slug, he dropped to his knees behind a cottonwood sapling and kept right on shooting.

"The .44 Russian is a single-action and this bravo had to thumb the hammer back for each shot. He got off three rounds before a second charge of my buckshot ended his career,

"Quite as interesting, really, was the second gunman who had a Westley Richards 10 gauge loaded with Winchester High Speed #5 shot. We had killed him before he could touch off either barrel. A most happy circumstance since the distance between both parties was only nine steps. I have the Westley Richards today, a memento of lively times long past."

Today, Johnnie Cochran would be hired by the families of the deceased to sue Charlie and the whole Border Patrol for opening fire on the heavily armed gang without warning. Yet doing as they did undoubtedly saved multiple Patrolmen from being killed or maimed. As the saying goes, "Things were different then."

Weapon retention is the art and science of retaining control of your firearm when a criminal tries to disarm you and turn your firearm against you. Plan A is to execute a technique and peel the offender off the gun. If that can't be achieved, Plan B is to shoot him.

There wasn't much in the way of gun retention techniques in Charlie's time, and Plan B was his Plan A. He made it work more than once. He recounted the following in our American Handgunner Annual in 1988:

"I got to my feet and made a run at this coyote and just as I reached him, I tripped and fell down. This bastardo, as quick as a cat , grabbed my gun, which I had drawn, and standing over me commenced to tussle enthusiastically to get it away.

"I had no illusions as to what he'd do if he succeeded. He had thoughtfully wrapped his hands around the cylinder and while I had my finger on the trigger I could not fire the weapon because he would not permit the cylinder to turn.

"Very energetically I rolled up on my shoulders and kicked this sonofabitch in the belly. It broke him loose from my pistol. He wasted no time. He ran for the river which was only 30 steps away. I saw him very clearly against all the lights of Juarez and I let him run until he was in the Old Rio Grande up to his knees.

"I held the gold bead front sight in the white-outlined rear notch and put the gold right in his back just at the belt line. On the shot he pitched forward as though spanked with a baseball bat.

"Three days later the BP Chief told me, 'They dragged a dead Mex out of the river of the Socorro Headgates yesterday. The U.S. Consul in Juarez told me.' I didn't say anything. I wasn't any too proud of the fact that I had stumbled and the wetback had almost killed me with my own gun. (A customized Colt New Service .44-40.)"

The colonel continued, in the same issue of the magazine:

"One chill evening, it was January 1931, we jumped out a big gang of smugglers in the Standpipes district. We halted them on the levee and I ran up to the bunch and some bravo reached out and caught the old Remington by the muzzle and gave it a hell of a jerk. He aimed to catch me by surprise and get my gun, which you may be sure he'd have reversed in a twinkling and given me a dose of those big 00 pellets.

"He jerked on the muzzle and I jerked on the forestock and the pistol grip. As I gave the gun a hell of a tug, I pulled the trigger. The charge of buckshot got this coyote right through the left eye. The force lifted him completely off his feet and pitched him some four to five feet off the levee. The back of his head was quite a mess.

"I reckon I was just too impetuous in those days, for it wasn't three months later until we ran up on another gang of freebooters, this time near the Nichols Packing Plant. I got too close to the leader and he grabbed my gun muzzle and tried to whip it out of my hands. He jerked in his direction and I jerked in mine-- and I pulled the trigger.

"The nine big slugs took him right above the knee. The City-County Hospital took his leg off the next morning. The worthless scoundrel had syphilis and the last I heard the amputation would not heal. I reckon it sorta put an end to his river hopping."

Charlie's actions in the two shotgun grabs would almost certainly be ruled justifiable even today. The shooting of the fleeing man who had grabbed his Colt revolver unsuccessfully, however, would probably be seen as excessive force in light of the Supreme Court's mid-'80s Garner decision.

Askins had no patience with suspects who grabbed police guns. One of his partners was pistol-whipped almost to death by a hobo who had disarmed him of his Colt 1917 .45 revolver. The patrolman had already sustained multiple skull fractures and brain damage from the clubbed revolver when Askins stopped the assault.

At a distance of 10 paces, he killed the assailant with three shots in the chest, double-action, from his pet .4440 New Service 4" with D.W. King sights, the weapon the previously mentioned suspect tried to take from him near Juarez.

When he was actively in the field, Askins seems to have almost always fired the sidearm one-handed. In his later years he would enthusiastically recommend two-handed positions for defense, but he was not an early advocate of the concept.

It would appear that in most of his shootings, Askins aimed rather than pointed. He practiced a good deal, drawing and firing from the point-shooter's crouch position, but practiced more with a sight picture at arm's length for the matches.

He wrote that during one 10 year period, he logged 334,000 practice shots. Though in some articles late in his career he had good things to say about point-shooting, I can find mention of only two such incidents in his personal reminiscences of gunfights.

One was a mistaken identity shooting in which he exchanged shots in an alley with a rifle-armed U.S. Customs agent. The distance was 10 yards. The man with the rifle fired twice and missed both times. Askins also fired twice; one shot missed, and one struck the other man's rifle stock.

He point-fired because he had to: his gun that night was a Colt New Service .45 sixgun, its barrel chopped to two inches with no front sight.

He would write later, "To say that I took a ribbing was an understatement compared to the comments over firing two shots at another feller at 30 feet, down a narrow alley, and missing him. It was a disgrace which took a long time to live down!"

Charlie later mentioned that he had point-shot without a specific sight picture when he shot the man who was pistol-whipping his brother officer. Reading Askins' own account, he seems mildly surprised that he hit him shooting like that.

He wrote, "Each time one of the big flat-nosed 240 grain slugs hit him, it brought forth a little puff of dust. This 'bo had been riding the freight for several days and his clothing was full of dust. I cannot begin to tell you how happy it made me to see those bullets raise that dust! I knew I had him. It made my day, believe me!"

A southpaw, Askins liked ambidextrous autoloaders and lever actions for long guns-- the Savage Model 99, the .351 Winchester and the 12 ga. Remington. The latter, he said, was cut to 22 barrel length for him by J. D. Buchanan, who also affixed a full length extended magazine that held eight shells, bringing total capacity to nine rounds.

For a time when it first came out, Askins carried a 4" Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum in a Berns-Martin breakfront holster, although I can find no mention in his work of him ever using it in a gun-fight. Virtually all his shootings with handguns found him using one or another Colt; not until the very end of his man-killing days would he shoot a human with a Smith & Wesson.

Askins began his law-enforcement career as a forest ranger, using a stock GI 1911 .45 auto swapped from his lifelong best friend George Parker. "It was stamped 'U.S. Property' and had been purloined from the ordnance stores at Fort Huachucha," Charlie later admitted. He wore it in a Sam Myres holster. This was also his first sidearm when he joined the Border Patrol, but he quickly switched to a Colt New Service .44-40 with 4" barrel.

The large-frame Colt double-action was always an Askins favorite. The sawed-off snubnose version he had acquired for plainclothes wear quickly fell out of his favor when, sans sights, he fortunately missed the two shots he fired in the mistaken identity incident.

The same big gun in its long-barreled .38 Special target format, the Shooting Master, was Askins' choice in the centerfire class of bullseye pistol, the discipline in which he captured 534 medals, 117 trophies and the National Championship of the United States. When he became chief firearms instructor for the Border Patrol, he again showed his preference, though his choice of caliber was surprising. He wrote:

"As the Great Depression eased some-what, the Border Patrol at my insistence purchased new revolvers for the entire service. I had small love for the Smith & Wesson, a dislike which I share to this day, and so I elected the Colt New Service in .38 Spl. caliber. The revolver had a 4" barrel, fixed sight and a square butt.

"There were 642 revolvers purchased, at a cost to the U.S. Gov't of $19 each. I had the entire shipment sent to me in El Paso. I shot each revolver and sighted it in. The sights were all the fixed type, the front sight was a great upstanding chunk of metal and the rear sight was a rectangular notch cut into the top strap. I made a tool to bend the front sight either right or left to bring the gun to zero, I filed down the front sight if the gun shot low and filled (sic) the rear notch if it shot high."

In the .22 events, Askins shot a Colt Woodsman auto with a lead weight under the barrel. In the .45 category, his choice was a Colt Government tuned by the same "Buck" Buchanan who had tuned his shotgun and was now working for the legendary Frank Pachmayr.

In the national individual championship, an externally-stocked GI .45 was required, and Askins used one that Buchanan and Pachmayr had internally accurized and fitted with a 4 lb. trigger.

This was one of the guns he took with him to the European Theater in World War II. He swapped between it and his personal New Service .38, that one fitted with a King sight rib and a cutaway trigger guard. He shot men with both guns.

He used 230 gr. ball in the .45 and Winchester's slow 200 gr. Super Police roundnose lead in the .38. Askins believed that an accurate handgun with a smooth action, sighted to point-of-aim, point-of-impact, made the most sense as a defensive sidearm.

Based on his autobiography, the last man he killed was in 1957. Charlie was a U.S. military advisor in Vietnam. While hunting in the jungle one day, he ran across a Viet Minh soldier. Askins was carrying a Savage .358 lever action rifle (with which he had blown away a couple of other Viet Minh who interrupted his hunting on another occasion) but chose to draw his new Smith & Wesson Model 29 and fire it left hand only.

"I let the ambusher have the first 240 gr. slug right through the ribs on the left side. It was probably the first man ever killed with the .44 because it was quite new in those days," Askins observed casually. He finished the man with a second shot to the throat.

In his later life- I got to know him in the early 1970s--he told me he generally carried one or another single-action .45 auto. At one time Charlie was quite partial to the small, lightweight Star PD.

I knew Charlie Askins as a man who was fun to drink with, but a man you wouldn't want to get drunk with. He was an adoring husband and father, a lover of horses and a sucker for stray dogs. When his many fans wrote him, he answered them promptly and (usually) politely. Perhaps it was a natural compensation for the part of him that went beyond survival euphoria in the pleasure he took after killing a man.

I've heard people comment, "Whatever else you say about Askins, he sure didn't suffer from that 'post shooting trauma stuff." I beg to differ.

One of the virtually inescapable things in the aftermath of killing is what Dr. Walter Gorski defined as "Mark of Cain" syndrome. This is the sense that having killed people has changed the way that others look at you, and the way you look at yourself.There is no doubt that this was true of Charles Askins. The men he had killed, and the gunfights he survived, defined him in a very real way. Not just to others, but to himself. You didn't have to know him and talk to him to see it. It was inescapably visible in the body of his written work.

There were facets of Charlie that I wouldn't want in a cop. There was racism. There was a killer instinct, too strong, strong enough to sometimes slip its leash. Some of his shootings, if they'd been adjudicated, could have earned him "life without parole."
Yet Charlie was also the man who first organized firearms training in the Border Patrol, laying a foundation that sees that agency today as one of the world's leaders in law enforcement gunfight survival.
His tenacity, his courage, his coolness and above all his skill at arms are qualities we can all strive to emulate, though few of us will manifest them to the degree that he did.
Let that be the legacy of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. May he rest in peace.''

==A somewhat different perspective on Askins==

July 2008 issue of ''Tactical Weapons'' by Cameron Hopkins

Col. Charles Askins

The fact that Askins named his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner pretty much says it all. When his lifelong best friend, George Parker, was dying of cancer, Askins handed him a .45 auto. Parker shot himself, allowing Askins to brag that he helped his friend “do the manly thing.”

While most of his kills were racked up during his days with the Border Patrol along the Rio Grand River in his native Texas, Col. Askins added to his tally in World War II when he served as a battlefield recovery officer.

Askins rode the river for the U.S. Border Patrol in the lawless “gangster era” of the 1920s and ’30s. His numerous gunfights with contrabandistas and other criminals of the El Paso region are vividly detailed in his autobiography.

The son of Maj. Charles Askins, a noted gunwriter of the day, Charley Junior was born to guns. His old man was perhaps one of the best shotgun shooters of his day, a gifted wingshooter and an avid upland bird hunter. Charley inherited his Old Man’s mantle as a storyteller par excellence, but there was a darker side to Junior’s sagas.

Askins was one of the first recipients of the Outstanding American Handgunner Award. He was a national champion pistol shot. He won the centerfire event with what would be contested as an illegal pistol, but in typical Askins fashion, immediately after firing the winning score he resigned from the Border Patrol Pistol Team so he could go out a champion.

Knowing guns as well as he did, Askins was keenly cognizant of the handling characteristics of the best fighting guns of his time, as well as the terminal ballistics of their cartridges. He fully appreciated the firepower of self-loading weapons and favored a Remington Model 11 self-loading 12 ga., a clone of the Browning Auto-5.

Askins’ war stories were full of details on the guns he favored for combat. He was a master storyteller and his vivid descriptions of gunning down armed and unarmed criminals alike made for riveting reading in the days before political correctness made such confessions impossible.

All’s Fair In War
Always a gamesman when it came to winning at any cost, Askins cheated in gunfights as well as pistol competitions. Once, during World War II when the Allies were set to cross the Rhine into Germany, his unit was stymied on one side of the river while a bedraggled remnant of the Nazi army was facing them, dug in on the German side of the river.

As stalemates tend to go, both sides grew complacent. Askins noticed that every morning at a particular time, a fat German sergeant made his way to a particular bush near the river and squatted for his morning constitutional. This gave Askins an idea.

He found a suitable two-story house with a clear line of sight on the bush and set up a sofa and table in a second story window. He borrowed a range finder from an artillery battery and ranged the bush from the window, a bit over 800 yards. He then found a Garand that was reputed to be more accurate than most and commandeered a Jeep to drive himself to the rear. There, he set up a target using the range finder at the exact distance as the bush was from his house. He zeroed the Garand to be dead-on at that distance.
The next morning, Askins and his Garand were sandbagged when the “fat Kraut” made his way to his usual bush. Once he settled down to his business, Askins centered him on his front sight and squeezed the trigger. Killing doesn’t get any more cold-blooded than that, even if it was done under the color of war in a “legitimate” sense.

Years later, in the late ‘50s, Askins hired himself to Vietnam as a military advisor to the South Vietnamese. Askins had one of the then-new Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum revolvers and was determined to kill the first man with the big magnum.

His opportunity came when he was out on patrol with a few South Vietnamese soldiers, set to ambush some communist infiltrators. Askins gave the word that no one was to fire until he did and he waited patiently until the small column of men had passed. At the right moment, he stepped out into the trail and shot the last man in line. Askins was delighted by the huge revolver’s performance, lifting the body off his feet. He was equally pleased to proclaim that he was the first to kill a man with a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum.

Combat Training
Focusing on what works in a gunfight, Askins learned to tie a white handkerchief on the muzzle of his shotgun to better see it at night. To better train for moving targets, Askins rigged up a target stand on two clothes lines and had a youngster run back and forth, tugging the target so he could fire. He practiced shooting from awkward positions, on horseback and on the ground, all to better simulate the realities of gunfighting.

Askins was one of the first to pioneer the concept of training the way we fight, with man-shaped targets and rapid fire drills instead of bullseyes and slow fire. Today we accept “reality based” training as just obvious, but in Askins’ day, firearms training was based on bullseye-shooting techniques.

== IMDB Links ==

First of all, please forgive me if this was previously discussed and decided against, but what do people think of adding a link to the IMDB page for Actors? So for example of the [[Bruce Willis]] page there would be a link to [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/ Bruce Willis (IMDB)]. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:27, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

:I've done that before. See [[Ken Takakura]] and [[Monte Walsh (2002)]]. There is nothing in the rules that says you can't do that and I like links to more in-depth sites. Actually you're the first person who has even brought it up as far as I know. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:24, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

::I don't think anyone has brought that up, but that's a really good idea! I'm suprised someone hasn't thought of it sooner.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:35, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

== Spoilers ==

I have created a new template to indicate spoilers. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#Unless_it.27s_is_absolutely_necessary.2C_no_Spoilers|Rules, Standards & Principles]], spoilers should be avoided at all cost! Sometimes, however, they are unavoidable. When that is the case, it is good practice to warn readers before they start reading the page. The template is super easy to use. Check it out! ([[Template:Spoiler|Spoiler Template]]). I will state again so that it is super clear, '''SPOILERS SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COST!''' The use of this template '''DOES NOT''' mean that it is okay to include major spoilers just because you warned the reader. The template simply helps warn the reader of '''UNAVOIDABLE''' spoilers. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:21, 25 April 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

I have created another new template ([[Template:Ongoing]]). This is for use for TV shows that are currently on the air. So for example [[CSI: NY - Season 8]] or [[Top Shot - Season 4]]. It is way of saying "this page is continuously being updated and may not be current" and differentiates from the [[template:WorkInProgress|WorkInProgress Template]] which should be used for pages that someone is working on at this very moment to improve. I have added a picture to the template that is certainly subject to change BUT anyone changes it, lets come to a consensus on what the new image should be. I started a discussion thread about it [[Template_talk:Ongoing|HERE]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:38, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== What if only an image of a gun but not the gun itself appears in the movie? ==

I have a question: if an image of some gun is shown in the movie (as photo, drawing or a fragment of some other movie) but the gun itself never appeared, will it be correct to put this gun on the movie page? For example, on the following screenshot from ''[[For a Cop's Hide (Pour la peau d'un flic)|For a Cop's Hide]]'' we see a poster with four revolvers.
[[Image:Pour la peau Police revolver-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Is that enough to put these revolvers (they are supposed to be early S&W models) on the movie page?
- [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 13:14, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:No. Its not. The gun itself should appear (IMHO). Particularly when its hard to tell what the guns are. It would be one thing if it was clear EXACTLY what model of gun it was but there is no way to tell from these pictures. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:08, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::I agree, but no one seems to have objected [[NCIS:_The_Video_Game#M1911_Variants|in the past]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:12, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well that is a video game, not a film. But still, '''''I''''' don't think it should be included. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::::I think as a general rule they should be included. The purpose of the site is so that when someone sees something in a show or movie they can come here to find out what it is, on matter what format it appears in. As long as it is identifiable as a specific gun I say include it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:39, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::SORRY [[User:Commando552|commando552]] I have railed against this like a maniac for years. Just a PICTURE of a gun that is incidental in a scene DOES NOT QUALIFY and does not have to be included. It is ridiculous and also, people who have seen it have laughed at it. So no. I don't want IMFDB to become a laughing stock, thank you very much :) We've been accused of having Asperger's Syndrome in media before. This would cement that stereotype. :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::Maybe such items (pictures, stock footage etc.) are qualified for Trivia section? Or they must not appear at all? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 00:47, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::::I'd have to disagree there; if the picture is an identifiable weapon rather than just a generic Elmer Fudd drawing, people might want to know what type of weapon it is. The internet accuses anyone who knows anything about anything of having Asperger's sooner or later, you just have to roll with it. Besides, we have pages for media that consist entirely of drawings. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::And I disagree with you :D People push the envelope all the time. If it's OBVIOUS and "In your face" in the shot, then perhaps. See this example that I put in [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AC-POPE-AKa.jpg]] because it was front and center of the screen. You couldn't help but notice it. But casual posters or graphics on distant walls? No. NO one will wonder about a fleeting glimpse of a gun safety poster in the back wall of a police station. And I'm a bit surprised at you. ;) Equating this sort of appearance with Anime is not really honest. LOL. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::Well, like I said below you should be reasonable about it, but if someone might concievably ''want'' to know what type of gun is visible in a shot, we should tell them. Obviously if it's something so small that only someone looking very carefully at a still frame would notice it at all that's different, but I find these kinds of incidental shots just show the uploader has done a complete job. I guess it applies more in videogames where you can often be as close to or as far away from the poster as you like, but I always thought a good guideline was not to worry about ''how'' a weapon appears in something as long as it does. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:15, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::::But here is a classic case. You can't get any closer to the poster to positively identify WHAT the guns are. I think they are H&R revolvers, since I have two which look just like they do. But if WE (as in IMFDB) can't positively identify them with reasonable certainty (and in this case we cannot), then we aren't offering any sort of service at all, are we? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::::Yeah...It's troublesome because they're clearly ''there'' in that shot but it would look weird having an entry purely to say we don't know what they are. I think I'd agree with you that this one shouldn't be included, I was just speaking in more general terms (and as usual as someone who mostly does game pages where a poster might be a photograph and therefore more real than the weapons that are actually ''in'' the game :D). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::As for what these are, they look more like [[Colt New Line 38 Caliber Revolver]]s than early S&Ws to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:48, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::[[File:Colt New Line 38.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:I think what matters is if you can ID it positively, not how or where it appears. The acid test is if people will say "what gun is that?" and people will still say "what gun is on that poster?" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:25, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

So I have another new template to report! This one ([[Template:Convert|Convert]]) is a unit converter. It allows you to input specs for a gun without having to use Google or another form of unit conversion. '''There is NO need to go back and put this on gun pages where both the Metric and "Standard" values are already listed.''' But for new pages, or pages that only have 1 of the two values, this template can be used. I welcome any and all feedback! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:43, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

== Yet ANOTHER new template ==

I am just going nuts with these templates. :-) We now have the [[Template:IMDB Actor]] which will allow you to create a link to an actors IMDB page. I welcome feedback on this and all the other templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 10 May 2012 (CDT)

== Row span or Not.. ==

Whats the deal with using Row-Span... Personally I think it makes the tables more confusing because the boxes are no longer uniform... Whats the rule here? Should we use them when possible or avoid them? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:22, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== A Category for Biographical Movie ==

I suggest to make a new category "Biographical Movie" for the movies that describe the life of famous persons. This idea came to me when creating a page for ''[[Young Winston]]''. Here are more movies that fit to this category, of course. What do you think about it? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 04:58, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Error ==
When I try to make a new page, I get this
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 4053 bytes) in /home/imfdb/public_html/w/includes/media/Bitmap.php on line 213
What the shit? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:56, 28 May 2012 (CDT)
:Must be you. I made a test page here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/To_the_Limit]] though I don't have a ton of info on it, I made it just to test the new page capability. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:47, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== How to list color variations of guns ==

This is a question I have had for a while. Say that a standard pistol as well as a different color variation appear in the same movie/TV show. What is the preferred way to list that? In the past, I have always had one section for both, with a picture of each variation under the same heading (such as [[Human_Target#Walther_P99|here]]). However, I have seen some pages with seperate headings for each ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_1#SIG-Sauer_P226_.28Stainless_Slide.29|here]]), as well as one section with subheadings ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_3#SIG-Sauer_P226|here]]). So, which is the preferred way to list them?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 01:51, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

== Unidentified Guns ==

Just a reminder to anyone here who is particularly good at recognizing guns, there is a new category for pages that have Unidentified weapons. [[:Category:Unidentified]]. Check out these pages and help if you can! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:51, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Sterling 22LR pistol in Taxi Driver ==

Was looking at the picture when Travis is shooting his guns at the range, picture shows a Sterling 22LR pistol but it's a Galesi 22LR pistol.
Both pistol are look alike but they do have distinctive grips.

== Wikipedia ==

Hey guys. I am going to attempt to add an entry for IMFDB to Wikipedia. The page was previously deleted because it was poorly done. Is there anyone who would be interested in helping to contribute? Every little bit helps... I want to get a bunch of stuff together BEFORE I add the page so that it doesn't get deleted right away. Anyone interested feel free to post on my talk page! Also, if anyone can find any press attention that the site has received that would be super helpful! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:04, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:If I recall, older incarnations of the page were killed for relevance reasons. I'm not sure if there's anything we can do about that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:23, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::I spoke with the admin who killed it last time (over a year ago). He said that the previous incarnation failed to explain its significance. I think its safe to say the site has grown considerably since then... He also said that if we can demonstrate its significance it would stick around. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:31, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::How are they defining significance? It seems so subjective. What other wikis have made it onto wikipedia? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:42, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
Here is a list: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis List of Wikis] (I just added IMFDB to it). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:54, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

== Table Text Alignment ==

Is there a particular reason that text hasn't been aligned "centered" in tables?? Seems like it would look much better... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:49, 14 June 2012 (CDT)

== "Bollywood" Category ==

When I went to add the production nationalities for the ''[[Dredd]]'' page I just made I needed to add British and Indian. However, in the Produced/Filmed categories there is only the "Bollywood" category. I sure as hell would not call this a Bollywood film, so what am I meant to use? I think there should be an Indian Produced/Filmed category for films like this, but should it replace the Bollywood one or leave that separate? I know you can't redirect categories if it was decided to replace it, but there are only a dozen or so in the category so would be easy to do it manually. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:49, 21 June 2012 (CDT)
:Agreed. "Bollywood" only addressed a particular aspect of Indian cinema anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:01, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Ammunition list ? ==

I can make a list of ammunition ?
: 1 - What do you mean? Clarify your remarks with more detailed descriptions of what you want to achieve and 2 - SIGN your posts. Anonymous postings tend to carry less weight because they are usually NOOBS that do it. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::How does this help us ID guns in movies? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:24, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I can haz cheeze burger? :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

I have agree with chinaman on this on though how about having it for a category [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 18:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:There are some scenes in movies where the magazines/cylinders are shown with rounds in them. I suppose it might help in those cases, but not much for anything else. While it might be cool, it doesn't help identify firearms in a significant manner. If the mag is shown, you can probably find a (better) shot of the actual gun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:32, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::In my experience, if you see loose ammunition, it rarely goes with the gun anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 19:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

This, then, do such a site or not?
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 05:05, 25 June 2012 (CDT)
===My Example===
====Pistol/ Revolver Cartridges====
=====Caliber .38, .380, .357, .35 (9 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.357 Magnum.jpg|.357 MAGNUM
File:9x18mm MAKAROV.jpg|9x18mm MAKAROV
File:9x19mm NATO.jpg|9x19mm NATO (PARABELLUM)
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Revolver</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:ColtKingCobra.jpg|[[Colt King Cobra]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtMagnumCarry.357mag.jpg|[[Colt Magnum Carry]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtPython6In.jpg|[[Colt Python]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:Taurus617.jpg|[[Taurus Model 617]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=====Caliber .45 (11.45 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.45 acp.jpg|.45 ACP
File:.45 colt.jpg|.45 COLT
File:.45 GAP.jpg|.45 GAP
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Pistol</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M1911Colt.jpg|[[M1911A1]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP-45.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45|FNP-45]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP45Tac.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45_Tactical|FNP-45 Tactical]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:Glock21.jpg|[[Glock_21#Glock_21|Glock 21]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Submachine Guns</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M3 Grease.jpg|[[M3_/_M3A1_"Grease_Gun"|M3 / M3A1 "Grease Gun"]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:IngramMAC10.jpg|[[MAC-10#MAC-10|MAC-10]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:UMP 45.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:H&K-USC Rifle.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_USC|Heckler & Koch USC]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 08:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==I want to upload images in movie for my page ==
How do i can upload images in movie for my page ? What should i do now ?
Please tell what you know. Thanks !

or you do it for me.
:Or, you do it yourself. Yeah, let's go with that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:16, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==Can you...?==

Can you create these pages ? These movies are great movies:

1.Shanghai (2010)

2.The Flowers of War (2011)

3.Halloween II (2009)

4.Friday the 13th (2009)

5.See No Evil (2006)

6.Oba: The Last Samurai (2011)

7.Terror Trap (2010)

8.The Quiet American (2002)

9.What Love May Bring (2010)

10.Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008)

11.Spoils of War (2009)

12.In Tranzit (2008)

13.Max Manus: Man of War (2008)

14.The Keeper (2009)

15.Born to Raise Hell (2010)

Special: Pink Panther (Animated Series) and Old Master Q (Chinese Comics).

== Jack Reacher ==

I'm not sure what the rifle Jack Reacher is seen firing in the trailer. Here's a screenshot. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:18, 7 July 2012 (CDT)
[[File:JackR 102.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]
:Kind of a guess as you barely see it, but I would say it is a SIG P556 SWAT upper on a SG 550 series lower, which has appeared in a few things but most prominently in ''[[Salt]]'':
:[[File:SIG 552 2tone.jpg|thumb|450px|none|]]
:It clearly has a SIG gas block and bayonet lug, but it looks like the front slide slopes backwards (along with the same flip up rear peep sight) and it has a birdcage flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Collapsible Tables ==

This is an important note to ALL users. We are in the process of testing out a new idea of collapsible tables. For the time being, '''DO NOT''' implement this on any pages! This is a test that the admins are considering using on SOME pages. If you would like to weigh in on the discussion, you should feel free to do so [http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2005 here in the forum]. But I say again, DO NOT use this on any pages until the admins come to an agreement. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:05, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Percussion Pistols? ==

Should we have a page for percussion pistols, like we have a page for [[Flintlock Pistol]]s? They have appeared in stuff but currently there is no place to list them. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== imfdb on facebook ==

Did you guys notice the fan art logo of imfdb on facebook? I don't know who made it but it looks pretty badass. [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=262195507218912&set=a.109183475853450.11004.109180049187126&type=1&permPage=1] - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:32, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Park Boys ==

I've been visiting this site for couple of years now and yet I have not seen a page for neither the movie(s) or the show.
:If you want a page for this, go ahead and make it, don't expect others to do it for you and sign your posts.--[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:38, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::A page did exist, but was deleted for poor quality. Some users [[Talk:Trailer Park Boys|are working on it]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:44, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel==
Can someone help me make a page for this? I can fill in the blanks but the framework for the page is hard for me to set up (my HTML sucks), there is plenty of INGAME footage from the Gamescom gameplay trailer as well as their website.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 13:00, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:If you need help with editing, you can copy and paste from existing pages, or refer to the [[Help:Editing|help]] page. On a personal note, I'm a bit reluctant to help create another page for a console-only game that I'm almost certain will remain incomplete for years to come. Getting screenscaps from a console-only game (like AoT:tDC) require extra equipment and expertise that very few users here have, and it'd be unfair to toss this into their lap to finish. But that's just my two cents. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:18, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Ok, this is a standard form, though I do think a console-only game isn't a great thing to start with. Don't copy the nowiki tags or the one br line seperator, obviously:

<nowiki>{{Template:Upcoming}}</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[Image:BoxArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''NAME OF GAME'' (DATE)]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>'''''NAME OF GAME'''''</nowiki> is a (short description of the game)

<nowiki>'''The following weapons are used in the video game ''NAME OF GAME'':'''</nowiki>

<nowiki>=Class of weapons=</nowiki>

<nowiki>==A weapon==</nowiki>

<nowiki>A [[weapon]]</nowiki> is used by men to do things in a level.

<nowiki>[[Image:Gun Image.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The real gun's name - calibre]]</nowiki><br>
<nowiki>[[Image:Screenshot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Description of the screenshot.]]</nowiki>

(repeat)

<nowiki>[[Category:Some Categories]]</nowiki>

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:20, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Thank you for all the help, I still have issues uploading the pictures (I know lots online, I just dont know how to get them in the correct format). Also BTW the game will be multiplatform as well. All I really need to get is the beginning format set up, I can fill the rest (I have tried before but I was having issues with standards. Sorry I can make a basic template and filler, but to make it look nice need help. I am learning how to do HTML just been a while, thanks for all the support, I will use the template above to start the page, there is already box art and plenty of pictures, but all I know how to do is copy the URL and make a hypertext link) --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:38, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
::The official website says PS3 and X360 only, I haven't seen anything about a PC release. The first two games in the series were console-only as well. If you want to practice, there are plenty of incomplete pages available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:46, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:Uploading an image is done with the "Upload file" or "upload multiple files" options in the sidebar on the left; images must be in .jpg or .jpeg format or they won't upload. The format for an image is <nowiki>[[Image:NAME.jpg|thumb|ALIGNMENT|SIZEpx|CAPTION]]</nowiki>. The name of the image appears at the top of its page or the tail-end of the URL can be used; for example, this image:

:http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:636542_237822_front.jpg

:You copy everything after "file" at the top of the screen.

:<nowiki>[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]</nowiki>

:becomes

:[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]

:Does that help? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

::Tangentially related to that explanation, is there any reason that you have to do "Image" rather than just use the default "File"? I just copy and paste the whole title in so all my posts use the "File" and it seems to work, or are there ill effects that I'm not aware of? If nothing else it is one letter shorter so should make the page size slightly smaller. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:26, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:::Apparently the prefixes are interchangeable, I just prefer image. I don't think it's worth worrying about, but I do prefer if every image on a page at least uses the same one. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Well your explanation was solid, and I liked the fact that you used all the steps clearly, Ill be working on it soon and let you know. Thanks! --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:50, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== Octopussy ==
Does anybody have any ideas about the unknown guns featured in this movie? Please help identifying them. I'm trying to contact Bapty & Co about it but I haven't had any luck yet.
([[User:Thejoker|Thejoker]] 13:00, 19 August 2012 (CDT))

== Broken front page ==

Hi, does anyone know when the front page will be fixed? Rely on it for informing me what's new on the site.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:26, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
:Don't know when it will be fixed, but you can get all the information that was on there from different places. If you want to find newly made pages you can look at [[Special:NewPages]], and if you want to find recent updates and discussions you can go to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and filter by either "Main" or "Talk". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:30, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
::As stated in the Forum, the "Dynamic Page List" extension is not compatible with the new version of MediaWiki. I encourage you to use Commando's ideas for tracking new pages and seeing whats new on the site. We are leaving the page as is because we have another change coming that will fill that space. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 12:24, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

== talk new updated are they gone ==

will these subjects come back or are they lost forever due to up grade
--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

yay they brought back the old format thank you

== identification colt ==

Which colt uses belmondo in "hold up" ? python or diamondback ?
[http://www.toutlecine.com/images/star/0008/00085238-jean-paul-belmondo.html]
and in "ho!" ?

== Calling all Wiki-Experts ==

On this wiki we have a TON of knowledgeable gun fanatics. They range from the casual gamer to the Weapon Armorer and everything in between. What we are lacking, however, is people who are proficient in wiki-markup. Anyone out there who considers themselves to be be proficient with wiki-markup, please respond to this post or drop me a message on my talk page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 13:20, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

==Borderlands 2==
I know that Borderlands 2 is a fictional universe and thus may be under scrutiny about making a page, but there are both weapons that are modeled (even named) after real guns. On top of that the weapon icons which describe the type of weapon (handgun, shotgun ect) use real life weapons to indicate them. For example the handgun looks like a [[Jericho]], the shotgun a [[Remington 870]], SMG [[MP5K]], Assault Rifle [[M16]]. That would be great. Would be hilarious if someone on the discussion page of it at least wanted to post all of their weapons they have found, but it would probably crash the internet ;) Thanks for the help. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 12:57, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

== Magnum PI and his 9mm Colt ==

Why was it that only 9mm blanks were available during all seasons of Magnum PI? Could they not have hired the right people to make 45 cal blanks? Or imported them from the mainland?
:At the time .45 blanks were notoriously unreliable, a lot of 1911 guns at the time used 9mm versions for firing scenes due to the 9mm being a much more reliable round. It's only really been in recent years that .45 blanks have become more reliable. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 19:54, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

Interesting. Who would have guessed? :) --[[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 16:22, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

== First article ''Hennessy'' (1975 IRA film) - feedback? ==

Hi, I just wrote my first IMFDB article (I know wiki code from other sites before this): [[ Hennessy ]], a movie about a man whose family is killed by British troops in Belfast, driving him to seek revenge against the British government. Could some people look over my new article and say if it works so far? Thanks for any ideas on how to improve it or things to do better next time? Thanks! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 12:04, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

::Looks good to me. I added a couple more categories and the name of the movie to the movie poster along with the year that it was produced. Good work linking the actors and firearms to the movie. Many newer members forget to do that. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 03:35, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

:::Thanks for the help! I've added another film, 1959's ''[[Inside the Mafia]]'', mostly because it has the FedLabs 37mm gas-guns at the end, and those are awesome. [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 21:32, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

== Help ID revo in [[ Blue Lamp, The ]] (UK, 1950)? ==

Not many guns in this film, but there is one revo in the intro, and another pair later that are seen pretty clearly. Anyone decent with revo ID if the image is quite clear? I'm pretty sure it's a S&W, and it looks quite large so I almost thought it's some kind of M1917 in .455, or a Hand Ejector or something. Any second opinions? Also when I turn up the contrast, I believe the "cosh" used may be a length of pipe due to seeing a bit of a suggestion of a circle/tube in the image. Thanks for any input! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 23:39, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
:"Lengths of pipe" do not qualify for inclusion on this site. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 22:19, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== Why does Bond get a 9mm Walther PPK? ==

Why is it that Bond's PPK (in his recent films...Skyfall) a 9mm and not a .380 acp? They chose to use the 9mm cal blanks back in the 80's for the filming of the Magnum PI TV series because (as some one in this forum informed me 45 caliber blanks were unreliable). Are .380 acp blanks not reliable today? in 2012?? [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:48, 14 November 2012 (EST)
:It is a .380. In the trailer (haven't seen film yet), Q refers to it as "PPK/S nine-millimeter short". 9mm short is another designation for .380 auto. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 18:52, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Good call Kaptain. I thought they just said "9mm" in the trailers for Skyfall and had taken liberties in creating a "bond gun". Forgot they did correctly refer to as a "9mm short" which is what a .380 is...a "9mm Kurz". [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:59, 14 November 2012 (EST)

== Spoilers? ==

Just a simple question asking how do spoilers work on these wiki's as i've seen the Max Payne 3 page it contains a lot of spoilers and i think this is just wrong, Please tell me do we have to mark them as spoilers or does this website allows Spoilers?
--[[User:Faizanali|Faizanali]] ([[User talk:Faizanali|talk]]) 03:02, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:The bottom line with spoilers is to avoid them at all cost when possible. With a video game page, this is slightly less of a concern than with a Movie page, but still, unless there is no other way to describe when/how the weapon is used, it should be avoided. A common technique to deal with this spoilers is to make them white text and put "Spoiler (highlight to read)" before it. If you have any questions about how to do this, drop me a message. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 10:40, 20 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, avoid them where ''practical'' is probably a better way to phrase it, and it often isn't practical since you have to say when and where the weapon appears. Glancing over the page I can't see what you're talking about regarding containing spoilers, it doesn't really give away anything about the overall plot and things like Max growing a ridiculous beard and going to Brazil can't be considered spoilers since Beard Max is on the back of the box. I'm not a huge fan of the "highlight to read" spoiler method myself, either you have to say something (in which case it should be regular text) or it shouldn't be there at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:54, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::At the end of the day, we're here to document firearms usage by actors, so that comes first. If that has to come at the expense of spoilers, then so be it, but please try to avoid spoilers if at all possible. For example, we can just say that actor X uses a particular weapon, we don't have to specify what he does with it or to whom. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:11, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== Forum Registration ==

I wanted to register in the forums, but the registration is disabled. Any idea when registrations will be open again?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] ([[User talk:Gunkatas|talk]]) 17:54, 21 November 2012 (EST)
:Forum registration has been disabled to prevent spam. Please see the [[Forum Request]] page. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 20:00, 21 November 2012 (EST)

== Stingball Grenade ==

Should I make a page about the Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade (AKA: Hornet's Nest)?. The only movie I seen it in is ''[[The Longest Yard (2005)]]''
[[File:http://www.bhigear.com/productimages/bh-cts-95.jpg|thumb|Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade]]

Talk:Main Page

2012-11-27T06:04:30Z

Alkillmatic: /* Stingball Grenade */ new section

''See [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_1]] for older discussions''

==Unknown Pistol==
Is it a [[SIG-Sauer_P230]], [[Walther PP Pistol Series|Walther PP/PPK]] or [[Bersa Thunder 380]]? -- [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]], 21:34, 26 September 2012 (EST)
:Pretty sure it's a PPK. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:57, 26 October 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Luther Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:Luther Unknown 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Help Identify this sniper rifle==
It's from the movie My Way 2011. A bolt action sniper rifle used by a Chinese guerilla during the Sino-Japanese war, if context helps. I think it might be a PU-type scope, but not sure: [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h41m55s165.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m27s215.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m42s124.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m45s178.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h43m12s144.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h55m51s183.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
:It could be a Chinese [[Mauser_Rifle_Series#Type_Zhongzheng_Rifle|Type Zhongzheng Rifle]] if they are trying to make it reasonably historically accurate, and it also seems to be a match for this but I'm no expert on Mausers so can't say for sure. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:08, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
::Looks about right, although it has a turned-down bolt handle.
:::I assumed this movie was shot in Asia but looking on IMDB, turns out it was actually shot in Latvia making a European gun more likely. Also, it looks like the top handguard doesn't extend beyond the rear sight like it does on most foreign Mauser variants, so I think that would make it a [[Karabiner 98k]], which also has the turned-down bolt handle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

==Thunderheart==

Another movie that is not on this wiki (suprisingly) is the 1992 film "Thunderheart" starring Val Kilmer, the lack of coverage of it is suprising due to the fact it features a prominent actor and a good amount of firearms (2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 19's used by FBI Agents, what appears a Smith & Wesson Model 36 drawn by Kilmer during an attack, as well as M16 or M16A1's that are seen with the old 'Starlight' scopes) in the film. [[User: Czar]]

== Team America: World Police ==

I was surprised to see that this 2004 marionet comedy movie does not appear on IMFDB. Would it be against any IMFDB 'rules' if I created such a page? I watched the movie again over the weekend and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Most guns used by the marionets were indeed somewhat fictional but the creators really seem to have been inspired by real-life guns and I'd love to get started on an IMFDB page for this movie. If nobody objects I will get to work on this. Thanks in advance for your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:02, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:I wouldn't think so; due to the scale of the props, I'm not sure that the weapons would actually be based on actual weapons, just "moulds" of them. I've seen the movie, and I think that they are very generic, so I think that making this page would go against the IMFDb rule of actually identifying weapons. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 15:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The weapons are pretty faithful to real guns. There is at least a Minimi, M134, M4 with 40mm grenade launcher, MP5K (with the stainless steel Navy suppressor), MP5A3, SKS RPG-7 and a few different varieties of AK-47 (identifiable, such as Norinco Type 56 with pig-sticker bayonet and Romanian AIMS). These are just off the top of my head and from a couple of clips on youtube. Even though the guns obviously aren't real I think it deserves a page, as they are all faithful representation of real guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:55, 13 November 2011 (CST)
Thanks for your quick comments, I understand the initial hesitation. However, just check below screenprints and you will see that indeed the makers did their homework, maybe they even checked IMFDB! Commando552's memory serves him right!
[[Image:TeamAmerica-screenshotexample.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I agree that the movie contains a lot of nonsense but I am actually tempted to go ahead, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:11, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:And It will be deleted just like last time as the "Weapons" are just whatever generic 1/6th scale guns the directors could find. they are obviously not real. The page has been deleted before and will most likely be removed again. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:17, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The guns in anime and video games aren't real either. The guns aren't generic from what I can see, can identify them all (more so than some of the guns on pages like [[Crysis 2]]). If mods so no then fair enough, but I think it should have a page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:57, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::: I'm with Commando552 on this one, if it's not eligible because the guns aren't real then all video games and anime should be removed because those guns aren't real they're drawings or digital constructs. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:38, 13 November 2011 (CST)

== New or original gun names? ==

When a gun was originally sold under one name but has since changed, which name should be used? A good example is that right now there are [[LaRue Tactical OSR]] and [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] pages. They are the exact same rifle (OSR image is the standard rifle while OBR is tricked out, both versions are currently shown on the LaRue website as the OBR), LaRue was just forced to change the name due to a copyright problem. In this kind of case, which name should be used? I would have just checked other pages to see what the norm is, but my mind is currently drawing a blank to other guns that have changed their name but remained otherwise the same. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:52, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:Oops... I was the one who made the [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] page. I sincerely thought they were different guns, one a Battle Rifle and the other a Sniper Rifle. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Sortable Tables ==

Zackmann08 had mentioned about modifying our current table format for weapons and actor pages to a version where the boxes are sortable. A sortable template is already made and can be seen on [[Amitabh Bachchan]]'s page (I've now modified it to look a little more like our current table format). This definitely would be beneficial for the gun pages, but I noticed it takes a little bit longer to load and not sure if users will understand what the sortable icon is for. Would like to get thoughts from admins and users on this before a change is completely made. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:18, 16 December 2011 (CST)

:You make a good point about users not knowing what the icon is for. It is in use on wikipedia a lot these days so i think a lot of people are familiar with it and worst case scenario, if they're not then the table is just left in it's default sort. Just my 2 cents on the matter...--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:54, 16 December 2011 (CST)

::It doesn't work with rowspaned tables (like the ones on the [[Heckler & Koch MP5]] page) so it is a one or the other decision. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:28, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::another very good point, but how many rowspan tables are really in use? Other than the MP5 page i dont recall seing any others, though i havent really been looking for them. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:37, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::I've used them a few times, but generally only when there are a number of people from the same show/movie using the same weapon, as I think it looks better than having 10 or so entries with the same title and date in a row. If people decide against the rowspaned tables am happy to get rid of them though, was just my preference. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:50, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::::I feel ya. They are definitely preferable to listing the same thing over and over but if the choice is between that and sortable tables, personally I think the sortable ones are worth losing the rowspan. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:40, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::::I like the idea of sortable tables, especially for long pages like [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta 92F/FS]] or [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. However, I have noticed that currently there's a number of page formats depending on the respective contributor. I may not be so experienced with IMFDB like most of you, but it seems to me that it would make more sense to concentrate on developing a way to create a more uniform page format before we spend time on accepting more 'sexy' features. Pretty much like working on a house and spend time on the roof when the foundations have not been properly laid yet. Take care, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:29, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I totally agree with [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]]. I think what we really need is a single page that we can look at that has a template for everything. A section showing how to make a gun page. A section for actors, section for TV Shows, a section for Movies. That way we all know that this is the page everything should be based off of. This would be far better than saying "look at the M1911 page" because even pages like that have inconsistencies with formatting. The special page could even be put in the toolbar on the left side of the page under "toolbox". That would be amazingly helpful. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:57, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Bunni made a template for gun pages: [[Template:Gun]] That's how a newly created gun page should look like. Of course, the gun specifications sections can be expanded with other stuff, like barrel length (if a gun comes with 2 or more different barrels, like the [[Remington MSR]] for example), country of Origin, Designer and Manufacturer (if it is not in the title of the page, e.g. [[9A-91]]).
:And about the sortable tables: I think it is a bad idea. Why would anyone wanna sort a table on an actor page by the notation or character the actor was playing. Sorting by year is the best option IMHO, on both actor and gun pages. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:37, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:: I can see why you wouldn't want to sort by notation, and character would basically result in sorting by movie, but I can see how you would want to sort by what guns an actor has used instead of just what year. Also, one of the benefits of the sortable tables is that some of the older pages that are NOT sorted can be fixed by simply changing the class="wikitable" to class="sortable". As for the template, it does need to be expanded but we also need to find a way to make sure people know it's there and that all pages should follow it. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:17, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is proving to be a highly educational discussion for me as a rookie IMFDB user. Actually, this is the first time I learn about the template pages, and to be honest I fear I am not the only one. Instead of searching through the website, how about simply displaying links to the template pages everytime somebody clicks the button to create a new page? I am sure this will lead to increased uniformity and substantially lower the barrier for new people to get started on a page. Taking things one step further, how about the following? If somebody indicates to create a brand new page, a question box is displayed asking e.g. to make a choice between movie, actor, gun etc. so that after this choice the relating template pops up? Again, I am not sure if this is feasible but I am quite interested to hear your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:23, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::::I LIKE THIS IDEA!!! We definitely need to make a page that has all the templates listed. Right now its really hard to track down the templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:52, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Search for "<nowiki>Category:Templates</nowiki>" and it will show u all the templates. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:20, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::That helps but still that page needs to be publicized better. It also needs to be better explained. How are [[A-Team, The]] or [[MacGyver]] templates? When I create a new page, I find a good page and I copy the 'wiki code' from it into my new page and then just edit the text. My guess is this is what most people do and I feel like that is what we need. A page with dummy titles, names and guns for people to copy to a new page and work from. Thanks for letting me know about the Template page though. Didn't know that was there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::I think that Zackmann08 is hitting the nail on the head. Building on above comments, how about the following? On the left side of all pages there's the master menu table in blue ('CATEGORIES/SPECIAL/TOOLBOX'). In 'CATEGORIES' one can choose between Movies/Guns/Actors/etc so why not add something simple like 'Templates for New Pages'? If you click that, you'd see just 7 options for new pages; (1) Movie, (2) TV, (3) Anime, (4) Video, (5) Actor, (6) Gun and (7) Others (for whatever else can be 'templated'). Any choice would lead to one single template with dummy info and a short explanation on how to use it. This way an immediate and easy access to the templates will be realized, rather than (I am sorry to say) searching through several menu's in the Toolbox option and finding dozens of random templates. Interested to know what you guys think, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 05:21, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::::This sounds perfect to me! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:41, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:::::So, any volunteers willing and able to start on an addition to "Categories" with "Templates for New pages"? Am not too familiar with such revisions, but do we need authorization from anybody? --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 09:25, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Merry Christmas! ==

[[Image:IMFDB 2011 Christmas Card.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:22, 22 December 2011 (CST)

HAHAHA! I love it!

Merry Christmas guys :) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:05, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Brands Pages ==

I had an interesting idea that I was curious what others thought of. I was thinking it might be helpful to have a page that listed all the guns made by a certain company. For example, a "Smith & Wesson" page that would list all the guns that they have. To clarify, it would only list guns that are on this site. As per the rules this is NOT a gun encyclopedia and gun pages are only on this site if they appear in a movie/tv show/etc. I feel that it could be quite helpful in trying to identify weapons. We could divide the pages into Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Rifles, etc. just like a movie page and set it up as a table perhaps with some of the characteristics listed such as caliber(s), barrel length(s), etc. Would could even have a 'notes' column that list certain characteristics that help to identify it (for example for Taurus 92, "distinguished from the Beretta by its frame-mounted safety").

If this is an idea that people think might be useful, and if an admin will give me approval, I would love to create a trial page for one of the smaller companies. (I'd rather not do S&W to start with if it turns out people don't like it). I could perhaps start with Ruger which has a good number of guns. Please share your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:07, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:Sounds like an interesting plan. Thing is that quite often I see a gun and I have a general idea what brand it could be but then I find myself flipping through many gunpages in the IMFDB hoping that the gun I am looking for has been properly registered under that brand's name. In the case of e.g. Smith & Wesson (to name but a brand...) I can imagine such a page to be very useful. Will be following this discussion, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah it seems like it would be a good idea.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 10:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)

Trial page is up and running! I went ahead and did [[Ruger]]. I threw in a gallery as well. I'm not sure whether it's better have it right after the table or to put it at the bottom of the page or what. Please share all your thoughts on the page! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:23, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I think there is no need for the tables '''and''' galleries. Just simply put the caliber after the gun's name in the gallery. Like: "Ruger LCP - .380 ACP". Sorting gun's by type if definitely good, and seeing the thumbnail of the gun's will really speed up the IDing process (at least for me it will). The whole idea of these pages is great, considering that some guns (mostly Russians) are listed without the manufacturers' names. If more pages like this will spawn, we will need a "Gun Manufacturers" category, or something like that. I definitely support this idea, but the mods will decide. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I completely agree. The only thing is that some of these guns have 5+ calibers which could be cumbersome in the Gallery format... It would be great to have a 'Gun Manufacturers' category. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:25, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I also added the [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]] pages. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:44, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::You could put them in table but have the far right column be a picture (put in <nowiki>[[Image:file_name.jpg|200px]]</nowiki>). Would take up more vertical room than a gallery, but you could then include calibre, magazine size (helpfull for identifying different 5/6 shot cylinder revolvers, and differences between double/single stack handguns for example), year introduced (which would also help with ruling stuff out for IDs in older films/TV) etc. I suppose a notes catagory could also ,be usefull, say if a gun is available in multiple finishes and stuff like that. I think these pages are a good idea, but I think having the specifications section is a bit irrelevent for a company, I would just tag it on the end of "About". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 23 December 2011 (CST)

This is what you mean, Commando?
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Introduced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Remington MSR]]|| .338 Lapua Magnum<br>.338 Norma Magnum<br>.300 Winchester Magnum<br>7.62x51mm NATO || 5, 7, 10|| Late 2000s||[[Image:RemingtonMSR.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[XM2010|Remington XM2010 ESR]]|| .300 Winchester Magnum || 5|| 2010||[[Image:XM2010.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}
You are right BTW, the year and capacity can help a lot in IDing. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:THAT LOOKS AWESOME!!! I am sold... That is how I am doing it. Next question, what do we want to do about variants? For example with the [[FN FAL]] do we also list the [[FN LAR]] on the [[FN Herstal]] page or just the [[FN FAL]] and figure if you are trying to identify the gun you will go to the FN FAL page and look at the variants? Same goes for the [[FN SCAR]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:28, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, that's what I mean. I think this is more usefull than just a gallery, and also it would be a place where sortable tables would definitely be useful, as you could sort the guns by name or chronologically. For a while I've been meaning to do a table of all the Colt AR-15 variants for my own use, but would be good for the Colt page. AR-15s are kind of a special case as their are so many variants that are very similar at first glance, so would include more columns (like upper/lower receiver type, barrel length and profile, bayonet lug, stuff like that) so someone who didn't know much about different variants could sort the columns and work out what a gun is. Regardless if it ends up going on the Colt page, I'm going to make it and put it on my user page to see how it turns out.
::As for different variants I would list them as they can look noticeably different, as is the case with the FAR and the LAR (these are pretty distinctly different weapons, more of a grey area would be listing different FAL variants such as the 50.00, 50.61 and 50.63). With guns like the SCAR, I think the split should just be between the H and the L, not the different barrel lengths. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:43, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:::Fair enough. The other idea that I had was to add an additional column called "variants". This would be great for weapons like the MP5 which all have the same base. Got the idea from this wikipedia page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heckler_%26_Koch_products Heckler and Koch]. Glad to see so many people are taking a liking to this idea. I defiantly want to make it happen. Also, the AR-15 idea is a GREAT one. Perhaps a 1911 page as well. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:56, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::You talking like one page for ALL 1911 variants, or seperate pages for each 1911 company? But then how would we handle, say, an SW1911? Would it be on the S&W page, or the 1911 page? Or both?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:I've continued working on the three trial pages ([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]]). I have noticed that A LOT of these guns are missing the most basic information (no specifications). If anyone is looking for a task, that would be a great one. I will do my part once I get these pages fully up. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)
Loving the idea, I am considering making a SIG-Sauer trial page with the basics only, then going back later and adding in lesser known stuff. But I want to see how these pages come along!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)

'''Please keep in mind that the mods will decide. DO NOT create additional gun manufacturer pages until an approval comes from them. It will be a waste of time if they delete them later.''' - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:26, 24 December 2011 (CST)
::That is why I said wanted to see what happened to these pages first.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:19, 24 December 2011 (CST)
:Another thing that would be great, is if anyone wants to go through the trial pages (([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]], [[Heckler & Koch]] & [[FN Herstal]]) and make sure that each weapon has specifications on its page that would be great. As i was creating these pages I noticed that most of the weapons were lacking the most basic specifications and info. (This could be yet another use for these pages!) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:08, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::We had this discussion in the forum a long time ago, and the consensus was that it was NOT a useful means of classifying weapons on the site. Hence why I deleted the page originally. I'm still not sure it's all that useful. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 08:58, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::::I respectfully disagree. For someone like me who is a still a novice with guns it is exceptionally helpful when identifying weapons. This will be particularly true when it comes to things like the Smith and Wesson revolvers. It is often easy to identify the revolver is a Smith and Wesson but harder to know which model. If there is a single page that list all the Smith and Wesson revolvers it saves us from having to go through page by page. I just find it is so helpful to have one location where you can see a picture and the '''basics''' of the possible weapons. If it is helpful for some of us is it okay to leave these up? I will personally make sure that the pages are done in a professional looking manner and are not sloppily thrown together. I truly believe that (as long as they are done in the proper manner) they can make a fantastic addition to this already awesome website. (ok so that was a bit of kissing up but it's true, this site freaking rocks! :-) ) I'm also using this 'project' as an excuse to update many of these weapons so that their pages are in the correct format with specifications and descriptions.
::::I appreciate that I am still a new guy here and I '''really DO NOT''' want to be that guy who joins and says "nice thing you got going here but you should really change it because I know better." I DO NOT know better, please don't take this in that light. I am merely saying that there are a lot of people who would like to contribute but don't have the knowledge that some of you experts do. I think that this addition would help us novices contribute. I welcome your feedback. Oh, and a Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah to everyone! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:21, 24 December 2011 (CST)

I propose changing 'introduced' to 'produced' and having it be a to and from date. Basically how long the weapon was in productions for. 1995-2005 rather than just 1995 for example. Any thoughts?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Would love to hear some feedback from the admins on this project. I would like to continue with it but don't want to do a bunch of work and then have the pages removed. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:13, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Looks good. I'm a mod here. I really like the Colt page. The S&W page is going to be an intensive piece of labor for you. I agree with bunni. We need a category for these new pages. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:29, 27 December 2011 (CST)

I'm a mod as well and I really like what I'm seeing. This will be a lot of work but I think it will be quite an invaluable resource once it is finished, as long as it is done well. Kudos. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 21:51, 6 January 2012 (CST)

I started the [[SIG-Sauer]] page, and am about 3/4 done. Any help would be appreciated! Oh, and if anyone knows how to change the name of a page I would greatly appreciate for it to be renamed ''SIG-Sauer Inc.''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:33, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:[[SIG-Sauer]] is fine. According to Bunni we are not using "inc" or "LLC" in the page titles. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:34, 16 January 2012 (CST)

::That's fine, I wasn't sure if it was necessary or not.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:19, 16 January 2012 (CST)

== Battle Los Angeles ==

I have a question that I cant seem to get a good bead on, in the movie Battle Los Angeles Aaron Eckhart is seen using an m9 Beretta as his pistol,which I know is the main side arm used by US military forces. However, it was my understanding that the Marines used the 1911 as their sidearm and were the only branch to keep it as the main side arm. Eckhart's character in the movie is a grizzled old vet and had just put in for his 20 at the beginning of the movie meaning that he must have joined back in 1990-1991 and it would make sense to me why he would hold on to something like that. Either way please let me know what you got, thanks NavyBoyd
:For movie-specific discussions, please go to [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Talk:Battle:_Los_Angeles|the associated talk page]].--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 19:57, 23 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Page Templates ==

As part of the 'Gun Brands Pages' project (see above), I am also trying to make sure that each weapon included has specifications listed on its page. I am using the following as my template. If anyone thinks it is missing anything, please let me know. (Note that I made it a subheading with 3 '=' instead of the normal 2 '=' so that it wouldn't be its own category. normally it would just have 2.) I personally don't feel that Muzzle Velocity or effective range are necessary but I am up for input and critique. Just want to make sure I am doing this right! Merry Christmas everyone!
Oh and under FireModes I am including DA,SA,DAO,DA/SA if applicable. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:38, 25 December 2011 (CST)
<br><br><-- start template-->
===Specifications===
(year - year)

* '''Type:''' Handgun/Revolver/Submachine Gun/Sniper Rifle/etc.

* '''Caliber(s):'''

* '''Weight:''' lb ( kg) (empty)

* '''Length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Barrel length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Capacity:'''

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto/Full-Auto (950rounds/min)

-----
<--end template-->
:Another question that one of the veterans can help me out with. With guns that have Variations ([[Heckler & Koch P2000]] or [[Heckler & Koch USP]] for example), should each subcategory have its own specifications with the different length, capacity, etc. For example should the [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] have just one specifications section for the page or should there be one for the H&K P2000 and one for the H&K P2000SK. (This is the way I did the page but I want to make sure that this is ok. If I'm supposed to just do one section I will gladly correct it.) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 25 December 2011 (CST)

== I can't create a new thread in the forum ==

I logged into the forum and tried to create a new thread, but I get a message that says I don't have permission to access the page. I'm using a different username than I have used before, so is my account "awaiting activation?"--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 11:06, 1 January 2012 (CST)
:I had the same problem a few days ago. You want to talk to [[User:Bunni|Bunni]]. He'll fix it for ya. Happy new year. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:28, 1 January 2012 (CST)
::Thanks for your help. I followed your advice and left a message for Bunni over a week ago but he hasn't yet responded. Has he not been around lately?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 10:12, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== I think it's time to end the silencer/suppressor debate ==

I see this a lot, people correct other people "It's a suppressor, not a silencer. It doesn't silence the gun" and I think it really needs to stop. Way back in 1910, the first silencer was patented by Hiram Maxim as the '''SILENCER'''. Way back then, they weren't even that good compared to today's because the technology has been advanced on yet they were still called silencers. Them having the name silencer is just a name, after all there is a model of the Ithaca 37 called "Deer Slayer". It's a inanimate object which cannot slay deer. It can be used to kill deer however but the name doesn't fit it unless it operated on it's own to shoot deer. There are some people named Rose or Diamond but they aren't a flower or an expensive jewel. My point is with this is that it's just a name. Even today, the BATFE calls them silencers on the paper work and many companies that make them call them silencers. There is even a company called SilencerCO.

The reason why a lot of people call them suppressor is because in the 1970s the magazine, Soldier of Fortune, started calling them suppressors and giving the reason that I stated in the first sentence. Most people that I've seen that actually own them call them silencers and they have most likely done their research on them.

In conclusion, calling them silencers is not wrong and neither is calling them suppressors. You call them either and you're right. It's when you claim that silencer is the improper term. Silencer is just a name, it's the way it is.
--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:20, 9 January 2012 (CST)

: I personally prefer "suppressor", it's a nice, ''woody'', sort of word. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 13:51, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:: Yes, "silencer" is a name, but it's a misnomer. "Silencer" suggests absolutely no sound is produced when a shot is fired; "Suppressor" properly states that the sound will be muffled instead of completely silenced. It's the same as saying bullet-resistant instead of bulletproof. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 17:52, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::I don't see anyone complaining that their shotgun doesn't kill deer on it's own. IT'S A NAME and it's correct. .223 fires a .224 caliber bullet, are you going to complain about that too?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:37, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::::I agree. I think "Suppressor" sounds more accurate and professional. If it were a silencer, there would be little or no sound at all, which unless you use a suppressed .22 with half loads and a plastic bottle, is impossible, and even THAT makes a sound. I say we go with Suppressor.--[[User:Scattergun]]

:::::While "Silencer" is correct in general terms, the term "suppressor" is preferred largely because of the Hollywood concept of the "magic silencer" that literally makes a gunshot into the sound of a kitten sneezing. The "suppressor" term was coined to give a more realistic idea of what the device actually does; it suppresses the sound, it doesn't silence it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:05, 14 January 2012 (CST)

== NCIS: LA gun change? ==

The latest episode of NCIS: LA "Exit Strategy" the guns don't see to be the normal Sig 228s. The guns are still Sigs, but with rails, and Deeks was not carrying his normal Beretta. Deeks' weapon may have been the same S&W used in the episode "Empty Quiver". -Tucker

== Single or Double-Stack 1911? ==

Which is a better 1911 variant to have? A single stack or a double stack magazine. I heard somewhere that a 14-shot 1911 is more prone to jamming but I'm not sure. The reason is I am currently writing a script for an independent movie that me and my class will make and I have access to all kinds of guns, both blank-adapted and Japanese flash cap versions, and the main character is to carry a 1911 .45 and I was wondering what the more professional choice would be to carry.
:Personally I would go for a Kimber Custom II TLE or a Springfield Armoury TRP, both are single stackers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:58, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== Novel guns? ==

I know this may seem like a stupid idea, but should we include guns that feature in books? I have several books in my bookcase that go into great detail about guns, albeit sometimes they call sub-machine guns machine guns for some reason. (Seriously, how can you mix it up?) I'm new here, please go easy, but please give it some thought. They could either be on the book cover or featured in print inside. I know it would be pointless to include a screenshot of the text, but there are some pages on IMFDB that are just lists of guns and pictures of the guns themselves.
Alasdair

:Check out the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page. It will help set your straight. Good thing for new users to read (I found this out the hard way just a few weeks ago when I joined). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:35, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Ah, I see. Thanks. Alasdair.

== Manufacturer Pages ==

With more people starting to work on Manufacturer Pages, I'm working on making a template for the pages ([[Manufacturer Template]]). I am going to add a link to it from the <nowiki>[[Category:Manufacturer]]</nowiki> page. I figure this will help to make sure that they all stay consistent. (Note: not all of the pages that I have already made conform to the standards that I listed on the template, I will be fixing that in the next few days.) My goal is to make sure that these pages look professional and are useful! If anyone, particularly admins, has things that would like to add to the pages or to correct with future pages, please edit the template accordingly. Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:41, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Glock Manufacturer's Page ==

I was getting ready to make the Glock page for the new Manufacturers category and ran into a small problem. The new page would ideally be called ''Glock'' but that is already taken by the [[Glock]] page which has all their guns. I definitely think this page would be helpful (at least I know it would I'd find it useful) as it will help you decide whether you are looking at a G17 or a G21. I welcome any and all ideas and suggestions. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:54, 19 January 2012 (CST)
:The actual company is trademarked in all capitals as GLOCK so you could do that. Either that or you could put "manufacturer" in brackets after it, or make this the one exception where you put on the crap after the name, in this case "Ges.m.b.H.". If not that, I don't think a manufacturer page is as important for Glocks as other brands, as they are all already on the same page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:05, 19 January 2012 (CST)
::All good ideas. I'll prolly just go with (manufacturer). I agree that its not as important but it could still be super useful. I think I'm going to add a 'frame' column like we did with the S&W revolvers. This time it will have "Compact" "Standard", "SubCompact", etc.. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:29, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Taurus ==

I am in the process of redoing all the [[Taurus]] gun pages. Giving them all specifications, converting to wiki-table, etc. If there are any Taurus aficionados in the house who are willing and able to fill in the information that I am having trouble finding (mainly production dates), that would be great! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:15, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Beretta ==

I'm in the process of making the [[Beretta]] page. My understanding is that for Semi-Automatic pistols we DO NOT include "Model" in the page title, [[Beretta 418]] for example. There are a few pages that are not consistent with this pattern. Just want to make sure that they are all named correctly and follow the same rules. Could an admin look into this? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Proper name for CZ ==

It has been brought to my attention that the new Manufacturer page for [[CZ]] may not be properly named. The full name of the manufacturer is "Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod". I am hesistant to use this name for a couple reasons. 1) Its kind of a pain to type on a 'standard' keyboard. 2) Most people (I THINK) know the company as "CZ". One possible compromise I'm considering is renaming the page "CZ (Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod) and having "CZ" redirect there. I would love to hear some thoughts on the matter. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:45, 25 January 2012 (CST)
:I would use the full name with a redirect, but if you are calling it CZUB rather than Česká zbrojovka, that would exclude at least a couple of guns, such as the vz. 24 which was made by Československá zbrojovka Brno. I'm no expert on CZ, but it was my understanding that any words after the "Česká zbrojovka" part were just different factories, or is this wrong? While talking about proper names for gun pages, what should the page be called if the manufacturer has changed its name or merged? For example, when I made the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]] page I used the original name rather than Royal Ordnance. However I was going to make a Denel Land Systems page, which was originally called Lyttleton Engineering Works, but the Denel name is much more commonly known so didn't know what to use. Any suggestions for a general rule on this sort of thing? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:23, 25 January 2012 (CST)
::I think we definitely need a [[CZ]] expert to take a look at this page... Any volunteers??? As for the different names, first and foremost, whatever the page ends up being, there should be redirects form all the others. So for example [[Royal Ordnance]] should redirect to the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]]. Also, whatever the final name of the page ends up being, there should be a short explanation about the fact that it is "Also Known As ______" or "Formally Known As ____". As for a general rule, while I think it would be best to go with what the company is most commonly known as, in the end, that is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think the rule of thumb should be to go with what the company is currently known as (use the company website?) and have other names redirect there. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
::As a side note, while talking about redirect, I'm also trying to set up redirects for these pages that will help newcomers when searching the site. For example, if you search S&W now, instead of getting a page listing all the times that that the letters 'S' and 'W' appear on a page, you are now taken to the [[Smith & Wesson]] page. Just food for thought. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:36, 25 January 2012 (CST)
what exactly do you want to know about the CZ? I grew up in czechoslovakia, we used to carry these handguns in the army.

==A question about a bolt ==

Off-topic, but could anyone ID this bolt? http://www.forgottenweapons.com/mystery-bolt
Thanks, a relatively new and inexperienced user.

==Site Policy On 'Made Up' Weapons==
Could someone please clarify the site's policy on guns fabricated for films and videogames? I've edited articles on the Killzone games in the past only to have the articles taken down altogether because the guns featured aren't real. Now I'd accept that as fair enough, except other articles (e.g. [[Alien: Resurrection]] and [[Perfect Dark]]) deal with non-existent weapons at some length and nobody complains, even though some of the weapons they describe feature far ''less'' in common with real guns than the Killzone games' weapons did; at least many of those featured parts that were readily identifiable as belonging to real-world weapons. By deleting one and sparing the others, you're creating something of a double standard--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 09:56, 31 January 2012 (CST)

== Gun Title Template ==

Is there any way to get rid of the '''<nowiki><br clear=all></nowiki>''' that results from using the Gun Title template? I noticed that it can cause some problems when the gun in question has multiple images as there will be a bunch of white space before the list of occurrences. For an example of what I mean look at [[Smith & Wesson Model 610]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:14, 1 February 2012 (CST)

== Gangster Squad ==

Since I can't create a thread in the forum I decided to post this here.

The upcoming movie Gangster Squad will be released this year, and someone managed to record scenes being filmed, then posted the videos on Youtube. A couple of the videos feature shootouts.

This first one shows the "Gangster Squad" involved in a firefight and has a lot of M1 Thompson action:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlUBrd0uTc&feature=endscreen&NR=1 Gangster Squad 1]

The second video shows what I'm assuming are gangster-types, which is shot too far away to make positive ID's on all the weapons, but I think I know what most of them are. Two of them are using the usual Thompsons, but the guy kneeling between the cars seems to have a Sten, judging by the way he's holding it. There's another guy firing an smg, which due to the way he's holding it and it's rate of fire, I think is either an MP-40 or M-3. It's impossible to tell because he's obscured by a car. I'm pretty sure the guy up in the building is using a Lewis Gun.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xf0iEgtzBw&feature=related Gangster Squad 2]

I love these period crime movies, and this one looks really promising. What I'm seeing in these videos suggests there will be some great shootouts in this movie, and I just hope that's what we actually get in the final cut--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 09:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

== How do i add upload an image here? ==

I have gun to add, how do i add an image of it?

Also, how do i create a user page for myself?

Sorry if i am in the wrong section. If so, then please guide me to the right section.

:Look to the left; under Toolbox is upload file. To edit your user page, go to the top of the screen, where it has your username, followed by My Talk, My Preferences, ect. Click your username (red means there is nothing there yet).--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:38, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Fictional Airsoft Guns ==

Just noticed that on the [[Milkor MGL]] page there is an entry for the [[Milkor_MGL#CAW_40mm_Grenade_Launcher|CAW 40mm Grenade Launcher]], an airsoft grenade launcher. It seems random that it is on this page as it is a fictional design that shares basically nothing with the Milkor. Are there many other fictional airsoft variants that appear in stuff (only one I can think of off the top of my head is that weird AKS-74U variant that is in Call of Duty), if so is it worth creating a page for fictional airsoft guns that do not have a real world equivalent? I previously made a similar page for [[Blank Fire Only Guns]] that are not based on any specific live fire weapon, would be like that. Anyone have any thoughts on this? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:56, 7 February 2012 (CST)

- Personally, I think if it resembles the weapon, even if its fictional, it should share the page at the bottom. After all, the Bruni 1911 and the Bruni Python aren't real guns but they share a page with their real world Colt counterparts. At least thats how I feel about it. -[[User:Scattergun]]

:That is different to what I am talking about though. The very reason that the two guns you mentioned are where they are (at the bottom of the live fire equivalent page) rather than on the blank fire page is that they are clearly based on real world guns. The Bruni Olympic 6 however isn't based on any particular real world design and is just a generic revolver, hence it being on the blank fire page. My idea was that airsoft guns that are not based on any particular gun, such as the grenade launcher I mentioned above, could be put on one page for ID and listing purposes. My question really was are there enough "unique", for lack of a better term, airsoft guns around to make a page like this worth it? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:10, 7 February 2012 (CST)

== Naming conventions for SIG guns ==

Now that I have finished the S&W pages, I am moving on to revamping the SIG Sauer pages. I wanted to get feedback, particularly from admins, about the consisten disagreement about SIG vs SIG Sauer vs SIG-Sauer and see if we could come to a consensus. Some of the page have the full '''SIG-Sauer''' in the title ([[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] & [[SIG-Sauer P230]]) while other simply have '''SIG''' ([[SIG P210]] & [[SIG SG 540]]). If for no other reason than to make sure that FUTURE pages are done correctly, which is the proper format? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:49, 9 February 2012 (CST)
:It's not a matter of shorthand, the correct title depends on the firearm in question. The pistols with SIG-Sauer as the title were made by SIG-Sauer Inc., while the ones with SIG as the title were made by SIG independently, not with Sauer. Generally, the older guns (P210 & 510) are made by SIG only or Swiss Arms (which refers to themselves as SIG), while newer guns are SIG-Sauer. What I suppose I'm trying to say is that the titles are accurate as-is. As to whether the admins want SIG-Sauer or SIG Sauer is beyond me, although as they are two companies joined together I'm pretty sure there would be a hyphen.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:27, 9 February 2012 (CST)
::OOOOOHHHHHHHHH!! That makes so much more sense.... I never actually realized that SIG and Sauer were 2 separate companies that merged. Thank you SO much for that explanation!
::Given that, disregard my initial question! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 00:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
:::Having said that, I still think all of the page that say "SIG-Sauer" should get rid of the hyphen and say "SIG Sauer", as this is how both the Swiss/German and American companies spell it. If there is an actual reason for adding in a hyphen then fair enough, but has always seemed a bit random to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
Taken directly from the [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] page: ''NOTE: In the past, some IMFDB users have mis-spelled "SIG-Sauer" as "Sig Sauer". "Sig Sauer" is not the correct spelling; "SIG" is an acronym for Swiss Industrial Society ("Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft " in German), and thus, all three letters should be capitalized. Also, it is preferred that IMFDB users put a hyphen between "SIG" and "Sauer".''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:23, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:I've seen the message that putting the hyphen in is the preferred method on imfdb, but I don't understand why this is. As I said, neither the US or swiss/german companies use the hyphen so why do we? If it is a formatting reason or something technical that I don't understand then fair enough, but otherwise I think it should be deleted. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:09, 12 February 2012 (CST)
::I have to agree with Commando here... Both Wikipedia and http://www.sigsauer.com/ list it as '''SIG Sauer'''. Why was the decision made to include the Hyphen here? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:36, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Television wikitable ==

Up until now I have been using the following table for any pages that I convert from list format to table format:
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' / "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
I was considering modifying this to give '''Episode''' its own column. I wanted to see what people thought of this idea...
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Episode(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' || "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
Any feedback is appreciated. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 01:26, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:I've been combining the episode and note columns. I think I picked that up from Ben. That always made sense for me because episode info or notes are sometimes missing or unnecessary, while Show Title is ALWAYS present. I've always tried to supply episode info, and it could get a little tight when it's in there with the show name. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 01:42, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Sako vs SAKO ==

I want to come to another consensus here... Is it SAKO or Sako? I.E. [[SAKO 85 Hunter]] vs [[Sako TRG-21]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:40, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:It's an acronym (Suojeluskuntain Ase- ja Konepaja Oy), which would suggest all caps. If you go to the US website, the page is titled "SAKO Finland." Strangely enough, if you go to the "Company" link, they refer to themselves as just "Sako." --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:36, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Companies w/ one single product ==

I have always wondered, what about those companies that have only one single product, like AMSD, Rafael, DRS Precisions,... (I am sure there is more) Can they have a Manufacturer page or not? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:53, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:Can they? Yes... Should they? No... Just my humble opinion... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:49, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Featured Articles ==

Question for our admins regarding the featured articles on the main page. What is the process for becoming a featured article? I know that for obvious reasons (preventing vandalism, etc.) the [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] is locked, but is there a way for us non-admins to suggest new articles? Could we perhaps set something up whereby non-admins could post an addition in the discussion page for [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] and if an admin approves of the addition, it could then be added into the mix? I really do love the random articles that pop up on the front page but as a very frequent visitor, seeing the same images over and over starts to get a little boring... Even just changing the images for a given "Featured Article" would be nice. For example, keeping [[The Unit]] (one of the best articles on the site) as a featured article but choosing 2 different images to be displayed. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:34, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Wannabe Indie game dev has some questions ==

I'm looking into making a simple target range simulator, most likely in a software like Unity3d or Coppercube which i have experience in. I am however unsure if entire realism is a good or possibly bad move, not only for game-play, but also because I feel it wouldn't have that... special feeling of a video game, when you play a role playing game for example, they all have their own mood. Pokemon is not Final Fantasy is not The Elder Scrolls. My main concern is how all target range simulator's I've played always go graphics realism, but the shooting mechanics tend to be surreal. This makes it not very fun for many people, people who like goals in their games get to set high scores, but not much else. People who possess firearm knowledge are easily ticked off by the fact that it is trying to be real, but lacks true realism due to all sorts of game-play errors. So while this may seem far fetched, my idea is simple. Mix a realistic (game-play) target range with surreal and almost child-like simple 3d graphics and a basic plot. For those familiar with the concepts in Pokemon, the player character has two primary goals, to collect info on all the monsters, and to defeat all the gym leaders and then the elite four. Target ranges would be like gyms, each has people who you can challenge to accuracy, fastest shot, and other contests of skill. While traveling from range to range, you can collect more firearms, not in grass, but from vendors and helping people with small side-quests, etc. I doubt this kind of a game would receive much, if any audience, particularly being that it's too serious and gun-friendly in content for most children (or more specifically, their parents) to buy, and it's far too childish in graphics for Adults. It's a happy middle where it's a game i would personally love to play, and hopefully so would a few others out there somewhere. All in all, I think a target range and competition based collection RPG with a heavy emphasis on gameplay and fun while still maintaining key aspects of gun culture would be a unique game. (things like policing your brass to be reused with powder and appropriate caliber bullets as a cheaper way to procure and load ammunition, maybe even allowing you to tweak the amount of powder that way). It's hard to explain the whole concept as I haven't nailed every little thing down yet. I was planning on starting the project on a smaller scale, then slowly adding more. So is this a good idea or am i barking up the wrong tree? I'd love to do full realism, but I honestly want the game to be atleast partially fun or stylized. (I am not looking for help making this game, I merely want feedback on the ideas) (I also hope I did not break anything by posting this, I am unfamiliar with wiki editing, and I am relying on your guides.) --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 12:31, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:First thing: please post "I am not a bot" after this message before you post anything else on this wiki. Your message seems a little...out of place, and I want to check it's not automated spam. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:44, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Not a bot, Sorry for any confusion based on the ludicrous idea and my unusual name choice. I couldn't find any other place where i could... Oh. you have a forum. How did i miss that? Sorry. Seems so obvious now that it's glaring at me on the left. And now I forgot to sign. --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:07, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Email confirmed on forums, but now Posting Rules: You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts... Whaaa? --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:12, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:::Unfortunately the automatic approvals don't work for some reason, you'll need to leave a message on [[User:Bunni]]'s talk page to get approved. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:06, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== Top Shot ==

For all you [[Top Shot]] fans, we have a new viewer of IMFDB. I just got re-tweeted by Colby Donaldson... He's checking out the page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:16, 22 February 2012 (CST)
:Haha, that's great!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:18, 22 February 2012 (CST)

== SOCOM 4 ==
Anyone agree it would would a great idea to add Socom 4 with the other SOCOM games in the video game category?--[[User:Commandoninja137|Commandoninja137]] 21:28, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== CSI ==

I am in the process of trying to redo the [[CSI]] pages. There are a LOT of guns used in these series. I feel like they deserve as much attention as the [[NCIS]] pages which are awesome at the moment. If anyone has any of the seasons on DVD and is interested in helping that would be awesome. I just finished [[CSI: NY - Season 7]] and am preparing to do season 6. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:46, 24 February 2012 (CST)

== New "Current" template ==

So we already have a number of awesome templates for labeling pages. The '''Upcoming''' template for stuff that hasn't been released yet. The '''Work in Progress''' template for pages that someone is currently working on. Anyone have any thoughts on making a new template for pages that are currently being updated? For example, the current season of [[NCIS]] or the current season of [[Hawaii Five-0]]. There not exactly "upcoming" because the upcoming template specifically says "all images are from trailers" and they aren't exactly a work in progress... Just a thought. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:20, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== New category: "Containing Unidentified Firearm"? ==

I was just wondering if it would make sense to create a new category "Containing Unidentified Firearm" for movies that contain a gun that cannot be identified by the page creator. This way, anybody (like me...) who gets a kick out of identifying a gun that other people could not, can very efficiently assist others to complete pages. If you guys think it's a good idea, any suggestions how to create/promote this category? Thanks for any comments, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:43, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was thinking about that just last night... I think its a GREAT idea! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:32, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::Great! Could you advise on the following; (1) what would be a good name? (2) how to create that category? and (3) how can I get other users to start using the category? Look forward to hear from you, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:49, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I would advise talking to a few admins before doing anything else. We wanna get feedback from them before proceeding. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:38, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::::A good name for this category might be "Movies with unidentified guns" or "Featuring unknown weapons" or something like that. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:16, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::I agree that something like this would be a good idea. Something to bear in mind though, there are a lot of pages with unidentified guns on this site, most of the time because they are only seen partially, briefly, from a distance or in poor lighting, or just due to the fact that they may be "generic" looking (I bet there are a hell of a lot of pages on here that say "unidentified revolver"). With most of these guns it will be impossible to get a firm ID so the tag will remain there forever, meaning that if someone wanted to try and be helpful and ID a few guns 99% of them would be a vaguely pistol shaped shadow (if it was a chronological list this would be less of a problem but categories are alphabetised). I think a better solution might be to have a discussion page somewhere where people can post caps of unidentified guns they have found whilst building pages, adding the new unidentified gun at the top of the page. This way you would be able to periodically purge the guns that are unidentifiable (e.g. speck in the distance) and would allow discussion between people to help ID the guns. I think it would also be a more successful way of getting unknown guns identified, as if you are good at IDing guns you can just watch this hypothetical page and see whenever a new unidentified gun crops up, as opposed to with a category where you don't know (as for as I know) when something has been added to it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
Commando makes a good point. I propose a middle ground. There is a difference between "'''I''' cannot identify this gun" and "this gun cannot be identified". A gun that is only seen for a split second may not be identifiable and may simply be called an "unknown" revolver/pistol/etc. Pages that have those types of guns would NOT fall under this category. On the other hand, if you are working on a page and dont know what some of the guns are, you can add the tag and that will be a clue to some of our more experienced members to swoop in and help out. I'm in the process of capping all 20+ seasons of the 3 [[CSI]]s and there are a LOT of guns (particularly revolvers) that I can't identify but from time to time senior members come in and identify them. It would be great to tag these pages until either a) all guns are identified or b) a determination is made that 1 or more guns simply cannot be identified from the images provided. Basically I look at this as a variation of the WorkInProcess template. The page is done, all guns are uploaded, but not everything has been identified. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:56, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:Check out the template... [[Template:Unidentified]] --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:44, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::As long as it was only used for guns that could be identified if you knew what they were rather than guns you don't see properly it would probably be helpful. Still, would be nice if there was some way of doing it chronologically so you could see when a new thing with unidentified guns is added. Just throwing it out there, here is another possible image to use for the unidentified guns template. I think it looks more like a question mark and is actually made from real weapons (a Korobov TKB-022 and a No. 74 sticky bomb). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:06, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::[[File:Question mark 2.jpg|thumb|50px|none|]]
:::AWWW but i spent so much time making that quesiton mark just right!!! Grrr... Yorus is better tho... :-p --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:29, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
I like the idea and the templates, but rather than make it too complicated trying to get the question mark perfect, what if we just put a gun overlaying a simple, perfectly recognizable question mark. I like the idea of making the gun into a question mark, but I really have to look in order to see it on those. If I had any idea how to make one, I would.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:59, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:I don't mind if the question mark gun thing isn't used, in fact a regular blacked out background photo of a gun would be better as would be more in keeping with the other templates, but what is the perfect "unknown" gun that the majority of people cannot identify? [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Gun_Cylon_stunt.jpg This]? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::We could use something like that, or what about a blurry outline of a gun in front of a question mark? I think that the question mark makes the template identifiable, rather than just the words 'Unidentified Firearm' across the middle.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I like [[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]]'s idea. We definatly want to keep the question mark up there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:05, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Since the majority of unidentified guns I've seen are revolvers, why not make it a S&W Model 27 or a Colt Official Police (or some other revolver... I dislike the idea of using a weird gun for some reason). Maybe make it a Vz 58? It looks like an AK to the untrained eye, and would be mistaken for such if not for the people on this website. Inside joke, huh? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:24, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Thanks for all your input, what a short post from me a week ago can cause hahaha I like the 'Unidentified' logo and I have put it on top all movies where somebody else may be able to identify a gun I could not, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 13:19, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

== Infoboxes. ==

I am interested in trying to get the [[Template:Infobox Movie|Movie Infobox]] more widely used on the site. I think that ''if it is done well'' it could be very useful on the pages. One of the best features of wikipedia (IMHO) is the infoboxes which give you the basic information at a glace without needing to search the page. I would love some input from people, particularly the admins, regarding how best to make these infoboxes better. I want to make sure that the information they list is useful and valid, not just text filler and puff. Post your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:51, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

== The idea to change the page ==

The idea to change the page. An example of the new page. The rest of the site will have a basic table.

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>MP40 Gallery</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=450px perrow=2>
Image:MP40.jpg|MP40 - 9x19mm
Image:MP40Side.jpg|MP40 submachine gun - 9x19mm
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=== Specifications ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-
<div style="text-align=center">
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Category'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="650"|'''Data'''
|-
|'''Place of origin || Nazi Germany
|-
|'''Production''' || 1940 - 1944
|-
|'''Manufacturer''' || [[Erma Werke]]
|-
|'''Caliber''' || 9mm
|-
|'''Cartridge''' || 9x19mm Parabellum
|-
|'''Weight''' || 4 kg (8.82 lb)
|-
|'''Length''' || 833 mm (32.8 in) stock extended / 630 mm (24.8 in) stock folded
|-
|'''Barrel length''' || 251 mm (9.9 in)
|-
|'''Rate of fire''' || 500 rounds/min
|-
|'''Effective range''' || 70 m
|-
|'''Feed system''' || 32-round detachable box magazine / 64-round with dual magazines
|}

Do you like someone, such a proposal? It should be applied to each side of the gun?--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 14:51, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

This is an example of the new layout. It is more clear and transparent. You can change the way every weapon in the service. >>[[MG81]]<< How do you like it? --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 16:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:This new format has not been approved and please change your entry in the [[MG81]] into the correct format already established. Please place your suggestion for a change in the [[Talk:MG81|MG81 Discussion]] page. Unfortunately this table is too big and would make the gun pages too cluttered. We also have many different pictures of guns that don't have both sides photographed. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 19:06, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== New idea to help identify guns ==

So a while ago I started the Manufacturer pages as a way to help identify guns. I had another idea that I wanted to try on for size with people. Recently, I was working on [[CSI: Miami - Season 9]] and came across a submachine gun that I didn't recognize. I immediately went to the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page but was forced to go through every link trying to find the one that I was looking for.

What do you guys think of adding a gallery of some sort to the Category pages that shows the BASIC models of the guns included? When I say basic I mean that we wouldn't need an image of the MAC-10, MAC-11 and Cobray M11/9. Seeing the basic MAC-10 would be enough to direct you to the MAC-10 page where you can figure out whether the gun you are looking at is in fact a MAC-10 or one of the other variants. Similarly, an image of any one of the MP5s would suffice, we wouldn't need images of each of the variants.

If I can get the okay from at least one admin, I would love to try this out on the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page and see what you all think. :-)
(Note that I also posted this in the forum).

--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:19, 17 March 2012 (CDT)

:YOU MUST IMPLEMENT THIS ON ALL THE WEAPON CATEGORY PAGES. Sorry about the caps lock, this is just such an awesome idea, and it turned out so well on the submachine gun page. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 18:40, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::HAHAHAHA!!!! I'm glad you liked it. Give a few days, lets get some more reaction but I agree with you, particularly since it doesn't involve creating a new page, its just taking advantage of a page that already exist. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:43, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

Another thing that could reduce the time looking at gun images is the creation of new gun categories, like "Pocket Pistol", "Light Machine Gun", "Civilian Rifle", "IAR" and stuff like this. This could help filter the guns more. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 18:02, 19 March 2012 (CDT)
:I like that idea. Take a look at how I did the [[Sniper Rifles]] page. I split it up by Bolt Action, Semi-Auto and other. I was thinking of doing the same thing when I do the files section with an additional category for Lever action. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:33, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

One thing that I am defiantly going to need help with is making sure that these tables stay updated. If and when new guns are added to the site, we need to make sure that they get added to the appropriate tables. If you guys can help me keep an eye on the "Recently Added Pages" section that would be great! Also, I just finished the [[Shotguns]] section. I wasn't sure what to do about the [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]]s page so for now I just left it out of the gallery. Input is welcome! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:04, 20 March 2012 (CDT)
:Maybe you should add a "Dual-Mode" section to the list and place the SPAS-12, SPAS-15, and Benelli M3 there. (Or list them in both pump and semi sections) And semi-auto and full-auto SGs should be separated. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:18, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

::Don't want to over complicate things by adding more categories than are necessary. I did put the SPAS-12 in both but I didnt realized that the SPAS-15 and Benelli M3 also fit under both sections. As for the Submachine Guns, there aren't many that are semi-auto only so let's keep them all together. Plus, that is not a main identifying feature since many "Semi-Auto Only" guns are converted for a movie. The point is to help identify the guns. The fact that a shotgun is Pump-Action vs Semi-Auto is very obvious during a movie and will help in identifying the gun. Also, with the exception of dual mode shotguns such as the SPAS-12, these guns can't be converted (at least not the same way an armorer can convert a semi-auto gun to full-auto). In other words, you will never see a semi-auto [[Ithaca 37]] but you could see a full-auto [[Steyr SPP]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:00, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

I'm in the process of working on the handguns section. I am going to need a LOT of feedback on this and will warn you ahead of time that it is going to be VERY cluttered when it is first uploaded. I think I am up to 5 categories at the moment: Compact, Standard, Long, Target and Other. I may split the "compact" into Pocket and Compact but we'll see what it looks like when I'm done. I'm just doing the code in notepad for the moment so that I can upload it in one move instead of in drips and drabs. Keep the feedback coming! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:27, 22 March 2012 (CDT)
:Just completed the [[pistols]] page. I would love some help checking it. I'm sure there are AT LEAST a few typos. I'm sure i mislabeled an image or something so any help is welcome! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:21, 22 March 2012 (CDT)

I propose to add a bookmark with additions to the weapons. Accessories such as scopes, grenade launchers, flashlight. This is to be a gallery through which everyone will be able to recognize included in addition to weapons. All containers in one gallery.--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 05:18, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Guns selected for TV and Movies are not realistic ==

This is a great database and I salute the creators and contributors. But looking through the handguns used in TV and movies, they don't represent what real criminals would be using. In real life we'd see criminals with a lot of Hi-Points; Tauruses; Bersas etc not SIGs;H&K;Kimber;Sphinx;Walther and other expensive handguns. I don't know who is making the selection of handguns for TV and movies but I laugh every time I see a two bit hood in a show who is holding a pricey pistol when in real life he'd probably be carrying some cheap gun with no serial number so he can later ditch it or sell it. Whether it's the prop master or director or producer or if there are kick backs in some way I don't know but it would be nice to see mainly police procedurals use guns that real perps would use.

Again this is not a criticism of the database, you just report what firearms appeared in a series or film. Keep up the good work ![[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Actually, it's been determined that criminals prefer to use the best guns they can get their hands on (usually illegally). This means that while a criminal could go buy some Raven Arms piece of shit, they'll probably just break into somebody's home, look for a gun safe, and hope they get lucky with what's inside. Besides, if you're going to commit a crime with a gun, why buy one and get your name in the system at all? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 04:37, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

Last data I saw was most illegal weapons were not acquired by theft but on the black market, originally purchased through straw purchases. Forensics labs see all types of guns that are used in crimes, not just top of the line ones. Guns used in crimes often disappear, I don't see most criminals carrying expensive ones that will disappear or get resold after a crime. I'm just pointing out that the handguns in TV and movies are beautiful but if the producers are aiming for realism the weapons don't match the streets.[[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:I read an ATF report from a few years ago that stated that the most common pistols used in illegal activity were S&W revolvers and automatics, Ruger automatics, and cheap things like Raven Arms, Lorcin and Bryco automatics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:02, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== P226 Beavertail ==

I am attempting to ID a pistol that is used in multiple seasons of [[CSI: Miami]] ([[CSI:_Miami_-_Season_6#Unknown_SIG-Sauer|Shown Here]]). It seems that it might be a discontinued variant of a [[SIG-Sauer P226]] known as a "P226 Beavertail". Has anyone heard of such a gun? Better yet, anyone have a picture of such a gun?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:54, 7 April 2012 (CDT)
:I already posted this on the talk page for CSI Miami, but I might as well post it here too. The picture on SIG's website under the P220 Beavertail is actually a P226 Beavertail, evidenced by the double stack bulges and P226 written on the grips and slide.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:10, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

==Need some help==

I changed the skin for IMFDB to a different skin... and only afterwards realized the there was no way to change it back. Also, the majority of the links and buttons normally present (including discussion page links) are gone. I can't even access my user account to change it back. Can anybody help me out (such as by providing me with a link to the preferences page so I can change the skin back)? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 01:43, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

==Charles Askins Jr. "Unrepentant Sinner"==

'''I'm sure that several of you know who Charles Askins was. He was controversial and he still is thirteen years after his death. Here is something I found that Massad Ayoob wrote about Askins in 1999. Of course Ayoob is controversial in his own right.'''

''American Handgunner, Nov-Dec, 1999 by Massad Ayoob

The death of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. last year closed a hell-for-leather life that lasted nine decades. He was a national pistol champion, one of the first winners of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award and a big game hunter with an impressive collection of trophies from all over the world. He aggressively sought out maximum action in his careers, first as a lawman and then as a soldier.

He was also a stone cold killer. For those of us who knew him, there was just no gentler way to put it.

Charlie's contemporary, Bill Jordan, once said that killing your first man is the hardest and after that it gets easier, but for a certain kind of man, it can get too easy. Some thought old Bill was talking about Charlie. Not without reason did Askins title his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner.Any future history of 20th century gunfighters will have to devote a substantial chapter to Cal. Askins. The son of a prominent hunter and gunwriter, Junior followed in Senior's footprints and left some marks deeper than his dad.

Charles Askins, Jr. killed dozens of men, both in war and on the streets. When asked for an official body count, the Colonel replied, "Twenty-seven, not counting [blacks] and Mexicans."

Askins was bright, thoughtful and without fear, but he had a darker side. The man's prejudices spoke for themselves. Charlie once confessed to a friend that he thought he was a psychopathic killer, and that he hunted animals so avidly because he wasn't allowed to hunt men anymore.He was sometimes too willing to kill. A reading of Unrepentant Sinner shows confessions to murder and manslaughter. Yet among the many Askins gunfights, there were also acts of heroism, shootouts against the odds that he won with his coolness under fire and his deadly marksmanship.

He spent a lot of his life teaching assorted Good Guys to win firefights, and when the Final Ledger is tallied, one hopes that is taken into account on the credit side.

Askins learned early that a rifle or shotgun always beats a sidearm when trouble is in the offing. His favorites included the lever action Savage Model 99 in caliber .250/3000. For close work, he was partial to the Remington Model 11, a clone of the Browning 12 gauge Automatic-5, with an extended magazine. Night sights not yet being available, he tied a white bandage around the muzzle to index the weapon in the dark.

Askins put the speed of fire to good use. He wrote of one shootout in east El Paso, where he employed a Winchester .351 semiautomatic carbine:

"One night at the foot of Piedras Street, which runs slapbang into Cordoba Island, a team of Patrol officers watched a gang of smugglers scramble out of the willows in the river bottom and pile their load of liquor into an old Hudson sedan.

"Then the cargadores turned and raced nimbly for the protection of the Mex side of the line. Three cholos piled into the old car and commenced to drive away. The BP vehicle pulled up beside the runner's vehicle and with guns drawn, we motioned the driver to halt."The Hudson came to a stop just as I set foot on the ground. The officer who was in the rear seat also alighted. The driver of the gov't vehicle threw the door open on the left side and hit the ground. He stepped down just as a gunman sitting beside the driver of the old Hudson swung a Model 94 carbine behind the driver's head and let go at the Patrol officer in front.

"He was struck in the head by the .38/55 bullet and fell dead. The bullet broke up in his skull and a major fragment exited and by a strange coincidence struck the patrolman alighting from the back seat in the head. It did not kill him, but knocked him unconscious.

"Thus in the space of two heartbeats and with only a single round, the contrabandista had knocked out two patrolmen and had only myself to contend with.

"I ran round behind the smuggler's car and opened fire. I shot the gunman through the eye, the bullet exiting through his temple. I kept right on firing and shot the driver through the kidneys. He later died. A third smuggler in the back seat cautiously poked a sixshooter up over the back seat and got shot through the hand for his pains.

"By this time I was busy reloading. The gunman, despite the fact that he had a bullet through his right eye which had passed out through his temple, managed to pull the driver from beneath the wheel and with him out of the way, got in the driver's seat and drove the old sedan for a couple of blocks down the street where he crashed it into a tree.

"The Border Patrol in those days, as I have said, had no radio communication. I cranked up the old patrol car, after loading the dead and wounded, and got to a telephone and called Patrol headquarters. Before the night was done the trio, the dead and wounded, were all rounded up. It had been a big evening. I did not feel much regrets over the loss of the patrolman. I had never liked him much anyway. The second lad, who had picked up a jacket fragment, was not seriously hurt."

On another night, Askins used the Remington autoloading shotgun, loaded with the 00 buckshot he called "blue whistlers." He recounted:

"They came out of the shadows and, as it was brightest moonlight, I could see every manjack had a long gun in his hands. We let them get up to within nine paces of us and I fired the first shot.

"I had the old Remington with its 9shot magazine and I knocked down the first two rannies in as many shots. I then switched my attention to the other three who did not like the heat. They ran back into Mexico, a distance of about 60 yards and opened fire.

"An interesting facet of this little exchange was that the lobo in the lead had an old Smith & Wesson .44 Russian. Despite the fact that he had a load of my 00 buckshot through his middle and one of the boys had hit him spang on the breastbone with a .351 slug, he dropped to his knees behind a cottonwood sapling and kept right on shooting.

"The .44 Russian is a single-action and this bravo had to thumb the hammer back for each shot. He got off three rounds before a second charge of my buckshot ended his career,

"Quite as interesting, really, was the second gunman who had a Westley Richards 10 gauge loaded with Winchester High Speed #5 shot. We had killed him before he could touch off either barrel. A most happy circumstance since the distance between both parties was only nine steps. I have the Westley Richards today, a memento of lively times long past."

Today, Johnnie Cochran would be hired by the families of the deceased to sue Charlie and the whole Border Patrol for opening fire on the heavily armed gang without warning. Yet doing as they did undoubtedly saved multiple Patrolmen from being killed or maimed. As the saying goes, "Things were different then."

Weapon retention is the art and science of retaining control of your firearm when a criminal tries to disarm you and turn your firearm against you. Plan A is to execute a technique and peel the offender off the gun. If that can't be achieved, Plan B is to shoot him.

There wasn't much in the way of gun retention techniques in Charlie's time, and Plan B was his Plan A. He made it work more than once. He recounted the following in our American Handgunner Annual in 1988:

"I got to my feet and made a run at this coyote and just as I reached him, I tripped and fell down. This bastardo, as quick as a cat , grabbed my gun, which I had drawn, and standing over me commenced to tussle enthusiastically to get it away.

"I had no illusions as to what he'd do if he succeeded. He had thoughtfully wrapped his hands around the cylinder and while I had my finger on the trigger I could not fire the weapon because he would not permit the cylinder to turn.

"Very energetically I rolled up on my shoulders and kicked this sonofabitch in the belly. It broke him loose from my pistol. He wasted no time. He ran for the river which was only 30 steps away. I saw him very clearly against all the lights of Juarez and I let him run until he was in the Old Rio Grande up to his knees.

"I held the gold bead front sight in the white-outlined rear notch and put the gold right in his back just at the belt line. On the shot he pitched forward as though spanked with a baseball bat.

"Three days later the BP Chief told me, 'They dragged a dead Mex out of the river of the Socorro Headgates yesterday. The U.S. Consul in Juarez told me.' I didn't say anything. I wasn't any too proud of the fact that I had stumbled and the wetback had almost killed me with my own gun. (A customized Colt New Service .44-40.)"

The colonel continued, in the same issue of the magazine:

"One chill evening, it was January 1931, we jumped out a big gang of smugglers in the Standpipes district. We halted them on the levee and I ran up to the bunch and some bravo reached out and caught the old Remington by the muzzle and gave it a hell of a jerk. He aimed to catch me by surprise and get my gun, which you may be sure he'd have reversed in a twinkling and given me a dose of those big 00 pellets.

"He jerked on the muzzle and I jerked on the forestock and the pistol grip. As I gave the gun a hell of a tug, I pulled the trigger. The charge of buckshot got this coyote right through the left eye. The force lifted him completely off his feet and pitched him some four to five feet off the levee. The back of his head was quite a mess.

"I reckon I was just too impetuous in those days, for it wasn't three months later until we ran up on another gang of freebooters, this time near the Nichols Packing Plant. I got too close to the leader and he grabbed my gun muzzle and tried to whip it out of my hands. He jerked in his direction and I jerked in mine-- and I pulled the trigger.

"The nine big slugs took him right above the knee. The City-County Hospital took his leg off the next morning. The worthless scoundrel had syphilis and the last I heard the amputation would not heal. I reckon it sorta put an end to his river hopping."

Charlie's actions in the two shotgun grabs would almost certainly be ruled justifiable even today. The shooting of the fleeing man who had grabbed his Colt revolver unsuccessfully, however, would probably be seen as excessive force in light of the Supreme Court's mid-'80s Garner decision.

Askins had no patience with suspects who grabbed police guns. One of his partners was pistol-whipped almost to death by a hobo who had disarmed him of his Colt 1917 .45 revolver. The patrolman had already sustained multiple skull fractures and brain damage from the clubbed revolver when Askins stopped the assault.

At a distance of 10 paces, he killed the assailant with three shots in the chest, double-action, from his pet .4440 New Service 4" with D.W. King sights, the weapon the previously mentioned suspect tried to take from him near Juarez.

When he was actively in the field, Askins seems to have almost always fired the sidearm one-handed. In his later years he would enthusiastically recommend two-handed positions for defense, but he was not an early advocate of the concept.

It would appear that in most of his shootings, Askins aimed rather than pointed. He practiced a good deal, drawing and firing from the point-shooter's crouch position, but practiced more with a sight picture at arm's length for the matches.

He wrote that during one 10 year period, he logged 334,000 practice shots. Though in some articles late in his career he had good things to say about point-shooting, I can find mention of only two such incidents in his personal reminiscences of gunfights.

One was a mistaken identity shooting in which he exchanged shots in an alley with a rifle-armed U.S. Customs agent. The distance was 10 yards. The man with the rifle fired twice and missed both times. Askins also fired twice; one shot missed, and one struck the other man's rifle stock.

He point-fired because he had to: his gun that night was a Colt New Service .45 sixgun, its barrel chopped to two inches with no front sight.

He would write later, "To say that I took a ribbing was an understatement compared to the comments over firing two shots at another feller at 30 feet, down a narrow alley, and missing him. It was a disgrace which took a long time to live down!"

Charlie later mentioned that he had point-shot without a specific sight picture when he shot the man who was pistol-whipping his brother officer. Reading Askins' own account, he seems mildly surprised that he hit him shooting like that.

He wrote, "Each time one of the big flat-nosed 240 grain slugs hit him, it brought forth a little puff of dust. This 'bo had been riding the freight for several days and his clothing was full of dust. I cannot begin to tell you how happy it made me to see those bullets raise that dust! I knew I had him. It made my day, believe me!"

A southpaw, Askins liked ambidextrous autoloaders and lever actions for long guns-- the Savage Model 99, the .351 Winchester and the 12 ga. Remington. The latter, he said, was cut to 22 barrel length for him by J. D. Buchanan, who also affixed a full length extended magazine that held eight shells, bringing total capacity to nine rounds.

For a time when it first came out, Askins carried a 4" Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum in a Berns-Martin breakfront holster, although I can find no mention in his work of him ever using it in a gun-fight. Virtually all his shootings with handguns found him using one or another Colt; not until the very end of his man-killing days would he shoot a human with a Smith & Wesson.

Askins began his law-enforcement career as a forest ranger, using a stock GI 1911 .45 auto swapped from his lifelong best friend George Parker. "It was stamped 'U.S. Property' and had been purloined from the ordnance stores at Fort Huachucha," Charlie later admitted. He wore it in a Sam Myres holster. This was also his first sidearm when he joined the Border Patrol, but he quickly switched to a Colt New Service .44-40 with 4" barrel.

The large-frame Colt double-action was always an Askins favorite. The sawed-off snubnose version he had acquired for plainclothes wear quickly fell out of his favor when, sans sights, he fortunately missed the two shots he fired in the mistaken identity incident.

The same big gun in its long-barreled .38 Special target format, the Shooting Master, was Askins' choice in the centerfire class of bullseye pistol, the discipline in which he captured 534 medals, 117 trophies and the National Championship of the United States. When he became chief firearms instructor for the Border Patrol, he again showed his preference, though his choice of caliber was surprising. He wrote:

"As the Great Depression eased some-what, the Border Patrol at my insistence purchased new revolvers for the entire service. I had small love for the Smith & Wesson, a dislike which I share to this day, and so I elected the Colt New Service in .38 Spl. caliber. The revolver had a 4" barrel, fixed sight and a square butt.

"There were 642 revolvers purchased, at a cost to the U.S. Gov't of $19 each. I had the entire shipment sent to me in El Paso. I shot each revolver and sighted it in. The sights were all the fixed type, the front sight was a great upstanding chunk of metal and the rear sight was a rectangular notch cut into the top strap. I made a tool to bend the front sight either right or left to bring the gun to zero, I filed down the front sight if the gun shot low and filled (sic) the rear notch if it shot high."

In the .22 events, Askins shot a Colt Woodsman auto with a lead weight under the barrel. In the .45 category, his choice was a Colt Government tuned by the same "Buck" Buchanan who had tuned his shotgun and was now working for the legendary Frank Pachmayr.

In the national individual championship, an externally-stocked GI .45 was required, and Askins used one that Buchanan and Pachmayr had internally accurized and fitted with a 4 lb. trigger.

This was one of the guns he took with him to the European Theater in World War II. He swapped between it and his personal New Service .38, that one fitted with a King sight rib and a cutaway trigger guard. He shot men with both guns.

He used 230 gr. ball in the .45 and Winchester's slow 200 gr. Super Police roundnose lead in the .38. Askins believed that an accurate handgun with a smooth action, sighted to point-of-aim, point-of-impact, made the most sense as a defensive sidearm.

Based on his autobiography, the last man he killed was in 1957. Charlie was a U.S. military advisor in Vietnam. While hunting in the jungle one day, he ran across a Viet Minh soldier. Askins was carrying a Savage .358 lever action rifle (with which he had blown away a couple of other Viet Minh who interrupted his hunting on another occasion) but chose to draw his new Smith & Wesson Model 29 and fire it left hand only.

"I let the ambusher have the first 240 gr. slug right through the ribs on the left side. It was probably the first man ever killed with the .44 because it was quite new in those days," Askins observed casually. He finished the man with a second shot to the throat.

In his later life- I got to know him in the early 1970s--he told me he generally carried one or another single-action .45 auto. At one time Charlie was quite partial to the small, lightweight Star PD.

I knew Charlie Askins as a man who was fun to drink with, but a man you wouldn't want to get drunk with. He was an adoring husband and father, a lover of horses and a sucker for stray dogs. When his many fans wrote him, he answered them promptly and (usually) politely. Perhaps it was a natural compensation for the part of him that went beyond survival euphoria in the pleasure he took after killing a man.

I've heard people comment, "Whatever else you say about Askins, he sure didn't suffer from that 'post shooting trauma stuff." I beg to differ.

One of the virtually inescapable things in the aftermath of killing is what Dr. Walter Gorski defined as "Mark of Cain" syndrome. This is the sense that having killed people has changed the way that others look at you, and the way you look at yourself.There is no doubt that this was true of Charles Askins. The men he had killed, and the gunfights he survived, defined him in a very real way. Not just to others, but to himself. You didn't have to know him and talk to him to see it. It was inescapably visible in the body of his written work.

There were facets of Charlie that I wouldn't want in a cop. There was racism. There was a killer instinct, too strong, strong enough to sometimes slip its leash. Some of his shootings, if they'd been adjudicated, could have earned him "life without parole."
Yet Charlie was also the man who first organized firearms training in the Border Patrol, laying a foundation that sees that agency today as one of the world's leaders in law enforcement gunfight survival.
His tenacity, his courage, his coolness and above all his skill at arms are qualities we can all strive to emulate, though few of us will manifest them to the degree that he did.
Let that be the legacy of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. May he rest in peace.''

==A somewhat different perspective on Askins==

July 2008 issue of ''Tactical Weapons'' by Cameron Hopkins

Col. Charles Askins

The fact that Askins named his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner pretty much says it all. When his lifelong best friend, George Parker, was dying of cancer, Askins handed him a .45 auto. Parker shot himself, allowing Askins to brag that he helped his friend “do the manly thing.”

While most of his kills were racked up during his days with the Border Patrol along the Rio Grand River in his native Texas, Col. Askins added to his tally in World War II when he served as a battlefield recovery officer.

Askins rode the river for the U.S. Border Patrol in the lawless “gangster era” of the 1920s and ’30s. His numerous gunfights with contrabandistas and other criminals of the El Paso region are vividly detailed in his autobiography.

The son of Maj. Charles Askins, a noted gunwriter of the day, Charley Junior was born to guns. His old man was perhaps one of the best shotgun shooters of his day, a gifted wingshooter and an avid upland bird hunter. Charley inherited his Old Man’s mantle as a storyteller par excellence, but there was a darker side to Junior’s sagas.

Askins was one of the first recipients of the Outstanding American Handgunner Award. He was a national champion pistol shot. He won the centerfire event with what would be contested as an illegal pistol, but in typical Askins fashion, immediately after firing the winning score he resigned from the Border Patrol Pistol Team so he could go out a champion.

Knowing guns as well as he did, Askins was keenly cognizant of the handling characteristics of the best fighting guns of his time, as well as the terminal ballistics of their cartridges. He fully appreciated the firepower of self-loading weapons and favored a Remington Model 11 self-loading 12 ga., a clone of the Browning Auto-5.

Askins’ war stories were full of details on the guns he favored for combat. He was a master storyteller and his vivid descriptions of gunning down armed and unarmed criminals alike made for riveting reading in the days before political correctness made such confessions impossible.

All’s Fair In War
Always a gamesman when it came to winning at any cost, Askins cheated in gunfights as well as pistol competitions. Once, during World War II when the Allies were set to cross the Rhine into Germany, his unit was stymied on one side of the river while a bedraggled remnant of the Nazi army was facing them, dug in on the German side of the river.

As stalemates tend to go, both sides grew complacent. Askins noticed that every morning at a particular time, a fat German sergeant made his way to a particular bush near the river and squatted for his morning constitutional. This gave Askins an idea.

He found a suitable two-story house with a clear line of sight on the bush and set up a sofa and table in a second story window. He borrowed a range finder from an artillery battery and ranged the bush from the window, a bit over 800 yards. He then found a Garand that was reputed to be more accurate than most and commandeered a Jeep to drive himself to the rear. There, he set up a target using the range finder at the exact distance as the bush was from his house. He zeroed the Garand to be dead-on at that distance.
The next morning, Askins and his Garand were sandbagged when the “fat Kraut” made his way to his usual bush. Once he settled down to his business, Askins centered him on his front sight and squeezed the trigger. Killing doesn’t get any more cold-blooded than that, even if it was done under the color of war in a “legitimate” sense.

Years later, in the late ‘50s, Askins hired himself to Vietnam as a military advisor to the South Vietnamese. Askins had one of the then-new Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum revolvers and was determined to kill the first man with the big magnum.

His opportunity came when he was out on patrol with a few South Vietnamese soldiers, set to ambush some communist infiltrators. Askins gave the word that no one was to fire until he did and he waited patiently until the small column of men had passed. At the right moment, he stepped out into the trail and shot the last man in line. Askins was delighted by the huge revolver’s performance, lifting the body off his feet. He was equally pleased to proclaim that he was the first to kill a man with a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum.

Combat Training
Focusing on what works in a gunfight, Askins learned to tie a white handkerchief on the muzzle of his shotgun to better see it at night. To better train for moving targets, Askins rigged up a target stand on two clothes lines and had a youngster run back and forth, tugging the target so he could fire. He practiced shooting from awkward positions, on horseback and on the ground, all to better simulate the realities of gunfighting.

Askins was one of the first to pioneer the concept of training the way we fight, with man-shaped targets and rapid fire drills instead of bullseyes and slow fire. Today we accept “reality based” training as just obvious, but in Askins’ day, firearms training was based on bullseye-shooting techniques.

== IMDB Links ==

First of all, please forgive me if this was previously discussed and decided against, but what do people think of adding a link to the IMDB page for Actors? So for example of the [[Bruce Willis]] page there would be a link to [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/ Bruce Willis (IMDB)]. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:27, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

:I've done that before. See [[Ken Takakura]] and [[Monte Walsh (2002)]]. There is nothing in the rules that says you can't do that and I like links to more in-depth sites. Actually you're the first person who has even brought it up as far as I know. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:24, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

::I don't think anyone has brought that up, but that's a really good idea! I'm suprised someone hasn't thought of it sooner.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:35, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

== Spoilers ==

I have created a new template to indicate spoilers. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#Unless_it.27s_is_absolutely_necessary.2C_no_Spoilers|Rules, Standards & Principles]], spoilers should be avoided at all cost! Sometimes, however, they are unavoidable. When that is the case, it is good practice to warn readers before they start reading the page. The template is super easy to use. Check it out! ([[Template:Spoiler|Spoiler Template]]). I will state again so that it is super clear, '''SPOILERS SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COST!''' The use of this template '''DOES NOT''' mean that it is okay to include major spoilers just because you warned the reader. The template simply helps warn the reader of '''UNAVOIDABLE''' spoilers. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:21, 25 April 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

I have created another new template ([[Template:Ongoing]]). This is for use for TV shows that are currently on the air. So for example [[CSI: NY - Season 8]] or [[Top Shot - Season 4]]. It is way of saying "this page is continuously being updated and may not be current" and differentiates from the [[template:WorkInProgress|WorkInProgress Template]] which should be used for pages that someone is working on at this very moment to improve. I have added a picture to the template that is certainly subject to change BUT anyone changes it, lets come to a consensus on what the new image should be. I started a discussion thread about it [[Template_talk:Ongoing|HERE]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:38, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== What if only an image of a gun but not the gun itself appears in the movie? ==

I have a question: if an image of some gun is shown in the movie (as photo, drawing or a fragment of some other movie) but the gun itself never appeared, will it be correct to put this gun on the movie page? For example, on the following screenshot from ''[[For a Cop's Hide (Pour la peau d'un flic)|For a Cop's Hide]]'' we see a poster with four revolvers.
[[Image:Pour la peau Police revolver-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Is that enough to put these revolvers (they are supposed to be early S&W models) on the movie page?
- [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 13:14, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:No. Its not. The gun itself should appear (IMHO). Particularly when its hard to tell what the guns are. It would be one thing if it was clear EXACTLY what model of gun it was but there is no way to tell from these pictures. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:08, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::I agree, but no one seems to have objected [[NCIS:_The_Video_Game#M1911_Variants|in the past]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:12, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well that is a video game, not a film. But still, '''''I''''' don't think it should be included. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::::I think as a general rule they should be included. The purpose of the site is so that when someone sees something in a show or movie they can come here to find out what it is, on matter what format it appears in. As long as it is identifiable as a specific gun I say include it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:39, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::SORRY [[User:Commando552|commando552]] I have railed against this like a maniac for years. Just a PICTURE of a gun that is incidental in a scene DOES NOT QUALIFY and does not have to be included. It is ridiculous and also, people who have seen it have laughed at it. So no. I don't want IMFDB to become a laughing stock, thank you very much :) We've been accused of having Asperger's Syndrome in media before. This would cement that stereotype. :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::Maybe such items (pictures, stock footage etc.) are qualified for Trivia section? Or they must not appear at all? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 00:47, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::::I'd have to disagree there; if the picture is an identifiable weapon rather than just a generic Elmer Fudd drawing, people might want to know what type of weapon it is. The internet accuses anyone who knows anything about anything of having Asperger's sooner or later, you just have to roll with it. Besides, we have pages for media that consist entirely of drawings. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::And I disagree with you :D People push the envelope all the time. If it's OBVIOUS and "In your face" in the shot, then perhaps. See this example that I put in [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AC-POPE-AKa.jpg]] because it was front and center of the screen. You couldn't help but notice it. But casual posters or graphics on distant walls? No. NO one will wonder about a fleeting glimpse of a gun safety poster in the back wall of a police station. And I'm a bit surprised at you. ;) Equating this sort of appearance with Anime is not really honest. LOL. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::Well, like I said below you should be reasonable about it, but if someone might concievably ''want'' to know what type of gun is visible in a shot, we should tell them. Obviously if it's something so small that only someone looking very carefully at a still frame would notice it at all that's different, but I find these kinds of incidental shots just show the uploader has done a complete job. I guess it applies more in videogames where you can often be as close to or as far away from the poster as you like, but I always thought a good guideline was not to worry about ''how'' a weapon appears in something as long as it does. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:15, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::::But here is a classic case. You can't get any closer to the poster to positively identify WHAT the guns are. I think they are H&R revolvers, since I have two which look just like they do. But if WE (as in IMFDB) can't positively identify them with reasonable certainty (and in this case we cannot), then we aren't offering any sort of service at all, are we? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::::Yeah...It's troublesome because they're clearly ''there'' in that shot but it would look weird having an entry purely to say we don't know what they are. I think I'd agree with you that this one shouldn't be included, I was just speaking in more general terms (and as usual as someone who mostly does game pages where a poster might be a photograph and therefore more real than the weapons that are actually ''in'' the game :D). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::As for what these are, they look more like [[Colt New Line 38 Caliber Revolver]]s than early S&Ws to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:48, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::[[File:Colt New Line 38.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:I think what matters is if you can ID it positively, not how or where it appears. The acid test is if people will say "what gun is that?" and people will still say "what gun is on that poster?" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:25, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

So I have another new template to report! This one ([[Template:Convert|Convert]]) is a unit converter. It allows you to input specs for a gun without having to use Google or another form of unit conversion. '''There is NO need to go back and put this on gun pages where both the Metric and "Standard" values are already listed.''' But for new pages, or pages that only have 1 of the two values, this template can be used. I welcome any and all feedback! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:43, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

== Yet ANOTHER new template ==

I am just going nuts with these templates. :-) We now have the [[Template:IMDB Actor]] which will allow you to create a link to an actors IMDB page. I welcome feedback on this and all the other templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 10 May 2012 (CDT)

== Row span or Not.. ==

Whats the deal with using Row-Span... Personally I think it makes the tables more confusing because the boxes are no longer uniform... Whats the rule here? Should we use them when possible or avoid them? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:22, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== A Category for Biographical Movie ==

I suggest to make a new category "Biographical Movie" for the movies that describe the life of famous persons. This idea came to me when creating a page for ''[[Young Winston]]''. Here are more movies that fit to this category, of course. What do you think about it? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 04:58, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Error ==
When I try to make a new page, I get this
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 4053 bytes) in /home/imfdb/public_html/w/includes/media/Bitmap.php on line 213
What the shit? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:56, 28 May 2012 (CDT)
:Must be you. I made a test page here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/To_the_Limit]] though I don't have a ton of info on it, I made it just to test the new page capability. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:47, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== How to list color variations of guns ==

This is a question I have had for a while. Say that a standard pistol as well as a different color variation appear in the same movie/TV show. What is the preferred way to list that? In the past, I have always had one section for both, with a picture of each variation under the same heading (such as [[Human_Target#Walther_P99|here]]). However, I have seen some pages with seperate headings for each ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_1#SIG-Sauer_P226_.28Stainless_Slide.29|here]]), as well as one section with subheadings ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_3#SIG-Sauer_P226|here]]). So, which is the preferred way to list them?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 01:51, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

== Unidentified Guns ==

Just a reminder to anyone here who is particularly good at recognizing guns, there is a new category for pages that have Unidentified weapons. [[:Category:Unidentified]]. Check out these pages and help if you can! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:51, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Sterling 22LR pistol in Taxi Driver ==

Was looking at the picture when Travis is shooting his guns at the range, picture shows a Sterling 22LR pistol but it's a Galesi 22LR pistol.
Both pistol are look alike but they do have distinctive grips.

== Wikipedia ==

Hey guys. I am going to attempt to add an entry for IMFDB to Wikipedia. The page was previously deleted because it was poorly done. Is there anyone who would be interested in helping to contribute? Every little bit helps... I want to get a bunch of stuff together BEFORE I add the page so that it doesn't get deleted right away. Anyone interested feel free to post on my talk page! Also, if anyone can find any press attention that the site has received that would be super helpful! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:04, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:If I recall, older incarnations of the page were killed for relevance reasons. I'm not sure if there's anything we can do about that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:23, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::I spoke with the admin who killed it last time (over a year ago). He said that the previous incarnation failed to explain its significance. I think its safe to say the site has grown considerably since then... He also said that if we can demonstrate its significance it would stick around. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:31, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::How are they defining significance? It seems so subjective. What other wikis have made it onto wikipedia? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:42, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
Here is a list: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis List of Wikis] (I just added IMFDB to it). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:54, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

== Table Text Alignment ==

Is there a particular reason that text hasn't been aligned "centered" in tables?? Seems like it would look much better... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:49, 14 June 2012 (CDT)

== "Bollywood" Category ==

When I went to add the production nationalities for the ''[[Dredd]]'' page I just made I needed to add British and Indian. However, in the Produced/Filmed categories there is only the "Bollywood" category. I sure as hell would not call this a Bollywood film, so what am I meant to use? I think there should be an Indian Produced/Filmed category for films like this, but should it replace the Bollywood one or leave that separate? I know you can't redirect categories if it was decided to replace it, but there are only a dozen or so in the category so would be easy to do it manually. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:49, 21 June 2012 (CDT)
:Agreed. "Bollywood" only addressed a particular aspect of Indian cinema anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:01, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Ammunition list ? ==

I can make a list of ammunition ?
: 1 - What do you mean? Clarify your remarks with more detailed descriptions of what you want to achieve and 2 - SIGN your posts. Anonymous postings tend to carry less weight because they are usually NOOBS that do it. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::How does this help us ID guns in movies? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:24, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I can haz cheeze burger? :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

I have agree with chinaman on this on though how about having it for a category [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 18:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:There are some scenes in movies where the magazines/cylinders are shown with rounds in them. I suppose it might help in those cases, but not much for anything else. While it might be cool, it doesn't help identify firearms in a significant manner. If the mag is shown, you can probably find a (better) shot of the actual gun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:32, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::In my experience, if you see loose ammunition, it rarely goes with the gun anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 19:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

This, then, do such a site or not?
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 05:05, 25 June 2012 (CDT)
===My Example===
====Pistol/ Revolver Cartridges====
=====Caliber .38, .380, .357, .35 (9 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.357 Magnum.jpg|.357 MAGNUM
File:9x18mm MAKAROV.jpg|9x18mm MAKAROV
File:9x19mm NATO.jpg|9x19mm NATO (PARABELLUM)
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Revolver</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:ColtKingCobra.jpg|[[Colt King Cobra]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtMagnumCarry.357mag.jpg|[[Colt Magnum Carry]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtPython6In.jpg|[[Colt Python]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:Taurus617.jpg|[[Taurus Model 617]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=====Caliber .45 (11.45 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.45 acp.jpg|.45 ACP
File:.45 colt.jpg|.45 COLT
File:.45 GAP.jpg|.45 GAP
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Pistol</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M1911Colt.jpg|[[M1911A1]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP-45.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45|FNP-45]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP45Tac.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45_Tactical|FNP-45 Tactical]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:Glock21.jpg|[[Glock_21#Glock_21|Glock 21]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Submachine Guns</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M3 Grease.jpg|[[M3_/_M3A1_"Grease_Gun"|M3 / M3A1 "Grease Gun"]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:IngramMAC10.jpg|[[MAC-10#MAC-10|MAC-10]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:UMP 45.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:H&K-USC Rifle.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_USC|Heckler & Koch USC]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 08:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==I want to upload images in movie for my page ==
How do i can upload images in movie for my page ? What should i do now ?
Please tell what you know. Thanks !

or you do it for me.
:Or, you do it yourself. Yeah, let's go with that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:16, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==Can you...?==

Can you create these pages ? These movies are great movies:

1.Shanghai (2010)

2.The Flowers of War (2011)

3.Halloween II (2009)

4.Friday the 13th (2009)

5.See No Evil (2006)

6.Oba: The Last Samurai (2011)

7.Terror Trap (2010)

8.The Quiet American (2002)

9.What Love May Bring (2010)

10.Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008)

11.Spoils of War (2009)

12.In Tranzit (2008)

13.Max Manus: Man of War (2008)

14.The Keeper (2009)

15.Born to Raise Hell (2010)

Special: Pink Panther (Animated Series) and Old Master Q (Chinese Comics).

== Jack Reacher ==

I'm not sure what the rifle Jack Reacher is seen firing in the trailer. Here's a screenshot. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:18, 7 July 2012 (CDT)
[[File:JackR 102.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]
:Kind of a guess as you barely see it, but I would say it is a SIG P556 SWAT upper on a SG 550 series lower, which has appeared in a few things but most prominently in ''[[Salt]]'':
:[[File:SIG 552 2tone.jpg|thumb|450px|none|]]
:It clearly has a SIG gas block and bayonet lug, but it looks like the front slide slopes backwards (along with the same flip up rear peep sight) and it has a birdcage flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Collapsible Tables ==

This is an important note to ALL users. We are in the process of testing out a new idea of collapsible tables. For the time being, '''DO NOT''' implement this on any pages! This is a test that the admins are considering using on SOME pages. If you would like to weigh in on the discussion, you should feel free to do so [http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2005 here in the forum]. But I say again, DO NOT use this on any pages until the admins come to an agreement. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:05, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Percussion Pistols? ==

Should we have a page for percussion pistols, like we have a page for [[Flintlock Pistol]]s? They have appeared in stuff but currently there is no place to list them. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== imfdb on facebook ==

Did you guys notice the fan art logo of imfdb on facebook? I don't know who made it but it looks pretty badass. [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=262195507218912&set=a.109183475853450.11004.109180049187126&type=1&permPage=1] - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:32, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Park Boys ==

I've been visiting this site for couple of years now and yet I have not seen a page for neither the movie(s) or the show.
:If you want a page for this, go ahead and make it, don't expect others to do it for you and sign your posts.--[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:38, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::A page did exist, but was deleted for poor quality. Some users [[Talk:Trailer Park Boys|are working on it]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:44, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel==
Can someone help me make a page for this? I can fill in the blanks but the framework for the page is hard for me to set up (my HTML sucks), there is plenty of INGAME footage from the Gamescom gameplay trailer as well as their website.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 13:00, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:If you need help with editing, you can copy and paste from existing pages, or refer to the [[Help:Editing|help]] page. On a personal note, I'm a bit reluctant to help create another page for a console-only game that I'm almost certain will remain incomplete for years to come. Getting screenscaps from a console-only game (like AoT:tDC) require extra equipment and expertise that very few users here have, and it'd be unfair to toss this into their lap to finish. But that's just my two cents. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:18, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Ok, this is a standard form, though I do think a console-only game isn't a great thing to start with. Don't copy the nowiki tags or the one br line seperator, obviously:

<nowiki>{{Template:Upcoming}}</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[Image:BoxArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''NAME OF GAME'' (DATE)]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>'''''NAME OF GAME'''''</nowiki> is a (short description of the game)

<nowiki>'''The following weapons are used in the video game ''NAME OF GAME'':'''</nowiki>

<nowiki>=Class of weapons=</nowiki>

<nowiki>==A weapon==</nowiki>

<nowiki>A [[weapon]]</nowiki> is used by men to do things in a level.

<nowiki>[[Image:Gun Image.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The real gun's name - calibre]]</nowiki><br>
<nowiki>[[Image:Screenshot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Description of the screenshot.]]</nowiki>

(repeat)

<nowiki>[[Category:Some Categories]]</nowiki>

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:20, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Thank you for all the help, I still have issues uploading the pictures (I know lots online, I just dont know how to get them in the correct format). Also BTW the game will be multiplatform as well. All I really need to get is the beginning format set up, I can fill the rest (I have tried before but I was having issues with standards. Sorry I can make a basic template and filler, but to make it look nice need help. I am learning how to do HTML just been a while, thanks for all the support, I will use the template above to start the page, there is already box art and plenty of pictures, but all I know how to do is copy the URL and make a hypertext link) --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:38, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
::The official website says PS3 and X360 only, I haven't seen anything about a PC release. The first two games in the series were console-only as well. If you want to practice, there are plenty of incomplete pages available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:46, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:Uploading an image is done with the "Upload file" or "upload multiple files" options in the sidebar on the left; images must be in .jpg or .jpeg format or they won't upload. The format for an image is <nowiki>[[Image:NAME.jpg|thumb|ALIGNMENT|SIZEpx|CAPTION]]</nowiki>. The name of the image appears at the top of its page or the tail-end of the URL can be used; for example, this image:

:http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:636542_237822_front.jpg

:You copy everything after "file" at the top of the screen.

:<nowiki>[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]</nowiki>

:becomes

:[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]

:Does that help? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

::Tangentially related to that explanation, is there any reason that you have to do "Image" rather than just use the default "File"? I just copy and paste the whole title in so all my posts use the "File" and it seems to work, or are there ill effects that I'm not aware of? If nothing else it is one letter shorter so should make the page size slightly smaller. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:26, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:::Apparently the prefixes are interchangeable, I just prefer image. I don't think it's worth worrying about, but I do prefer if every image on a page at least uses the same one. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Well your explanation was solid, and I liked the fact that you used all the steps clearly, Ill be working on it soon and let you know. Thanks! --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:50, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== Octopussy ==
Does anybody have any ideas about the unknown guns featured in this movie? Please help identifying them. I'm trying to contact Bapty & Co about it but I haven't had any luck yet.
([[User:Thejoker|Thejoker]] 13:00, 19 August 2012 (CDT))

== Broken front page ==

Hi, does anyone know when the front page will be fixed? Rely on it for informing me what's new on the site.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:26, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
:Don't know when it will be fixed, but you can get all the information that was on there from different places. If you want to find newly made pages you can look at [[Special:NewPages]], and if you want to find recent updates and discussions you can go to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and filter by either "Main" or "Talk". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:30, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
::As stated in the Forum, the "Dynamic Page List" extension is not compatible with the new version of MediaWiki. I encourage you to use Commando's ideas for tracking new pages and seeing whats new on the site. We are leaving the page as is because we have another change coming that will fill that space. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 12:24, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

== talk new updated are they gone ==

will these subjects come back or are they lost forever due to up grade
--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

yay they brought back the old format thank you

== identification colt ==

Which colt uses belmondo in "hold up" ? python or diamondback ?
[http://www.toutlecine.com/images/star/0008/00085238-jean-paul-belmondo.html]
and in "ho!" ?

== Calling all Wiki-Experts ==

On this wiki we have a TON of knowledgeable gun fanatics. They range from the casual gamer to the Weapon Armorer and everything in between. What we are lacking, however, is people who are proficient in wiki-markup. Anyone out there who considers themselves to be be proficient with wiki-markup, please respond to this post or drop me a message on my talk page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 13:20, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

==Borderlands 2==
I know that Borderlands 2 is a fictional universe and thus may be under scrutiny about making a page, but there are both weapons that are modeled (even named) after real guns. On top of that the weapon icons which describe the type of weapon (handgun, shotgun ect) use real life weapons to indicate them. For example the handgun looks like a [[Jericho]], the shotgun a [[Remington 870]], SMG [[MP5K]], Assault Rifle [[M16]]. That would be great. Would be hilarious if someone on the discussion page of it at least wanted to post all of their weapons they have found, but it would probably crash the internet ;) Thanks for the help. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 12:57, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

== Magnum PI and his 9mm Colt ==

Why was it that only 9mm blanks were available during all seasons of Magnum PI? Could they not have hired the right people to make 45 cal blanks? Or imported them from the mainland?
:At the time .45 blanks were notoriously unreliable, a lot of 1911 guns at the time used 9mm versions for firing scenes due to the 9mm being a much more reliable round. It's only really been in recent years that .45 blanks have become more reliable. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 19:54, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

Interesting. Who would have guessed? :) --[[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 16:22, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

== First article ''Hennessy'' (1975 IRA film) - feedback? ==

Hi, I just wrote my first IMFDB article (I know wiki code from other sites before this): [[ Hennessy ]], a movie about a man whose family is killed by British troops in Belfast, driving him to seek revenge against the British government. Could some people look over my new article and say if it works so far? Thanks for any ideas on how to improve it or things to do better next time? Thanks! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 12:04, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

::Looks good to me. I added a couple more categories and the name of the movie to the movie poster along with the year that it was produced. Good work linking the actors and firearms to the movie. Many newer members forget to do that. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 03:35, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

:::Thanks for the help! I've added another film, 1959's ''[[Inside the Mafia]]'', mostly because it has the FedLabs 37mm gas-guns at the end, and those are awesome. [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 21:32, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

== Help ID revo in [[ Blue Lamp, The ]] (UK, 1950)? ==

Not many guns in this film, but there is one revo in the intro, and another pair later that are seen pretty clearly. Anyone decent with revo ID if the image is quite clear? I'm pretty sure it's a S&W, and it looks quite large so I almost thought it's some kind of M1917 in .455, or a Hand Ejector or something. Any second opinions? Also when I turn up the contrast, I believe the "cosh" used may be a length of pipe due to seeing a bit of a suggestion of a circle/tube in the image. Thanks for any input! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 23:39, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
:"Lengths of pipe" do not qualify for inclusion on this site. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 22:19, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== Why does Bond get a 9mm Walther PPK? ==

Why is it that Bond's PPK (in his recent films...Skyfall) a 9mm and not a .380 acp? They chose to use the 9mm cal blanks back in the 80's for the filming of the Magnum PI TV series because (as some one in this forum informed me 45 caliber blanks were unreliable). Are .380 acp blanks not reliable today? in 2012?? [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:48, 14 November 2012 (EST)
:It is a .380. In the trailer (haven't seen film yet), Q refers to it as "PPK/S nine-millimeter short". 9mm short is another designation for .380 auto. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 18:52, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Good call Kaptain. I thought they just said "9mm" in the trailers for Skyfall and had taken liberties in creating a "bond gun". Forgot they did correctly refer to as a "9mm short" which is what a .380 is...a "9mm Kurz". [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:59, 14 November 2012 (EST)

== Spoilers? ==

Just a simple question asking how do spoilers work on these wiki's as i've seen the Max Payne 3 page it contains a lot of spoilers and i think this is just wrong, Please tell me do we have to mark them as spoilers or does this website allows Spoilers?
--[[User:Faizanali|Faizanali]] ([[User talk:Faizanali|talk]]) 03:02, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:The bottom line with spoilers is to avoid them at all cost when possible. With a video game page, this is slightly less of a concern than with a Movie page, but still, unless there is no other way to describe when/how the weapon is used, it should be avoided. A common technique to deal with this spoilers is to make them white text and put "Spoiler (highlight to read)" before it. If you have any questions about how to do this, drop me a message. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 10:40, 20 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, avoid them where ''practical'' is probably a better way to phrase it, and it often isn't practical since you have to say when and where the weapon appears. Glancing over the page I can't see what you're talking about regarding containing spoilers, it doesn't really give away anything about the overall plot and things like Max growing a ridiculous beard and going to Brazil can't be considered spoilers since Beard Max is on the back of the box. I'm not a huge fan of the "highlight to read" spoiler method myself, either you have to say something (in which case it should be regular text) or it shouldn't be there at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:54, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::At the end of the day, we're here to document firearms usage by actors, so that comes first. If that has to come at the expense of spoilers, then so be it, but please try to avoid spoilers if at all possible. For example, we can just say that actor X uses a particular weapon, we don't have to specify what he does with it or to whom. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:11, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== Forum Registration ==

I wanted to register in the forums, but the registration is disabled. Any idea when registrations will be open again?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] ([[User talk:Gunkatas|talk]]) 17:54, 21 November 2012 (EST)
:Forum registration has been disabled to prevent spam. Please see the [[Forum Request]] page. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 20:00, 21 November 2012 (EST)

== Stingball Grenade ==

Should I make a page about the Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade (AKA: Hornet's Nest)?. The only movie I seen it in is ''[[The Longest Yard (2005)]]''
[[File:http://www.bhigear.com/productimages/bh-cts-95.jpg|thumb|Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade]]

== Stingball Grenade ==

Should I make a page about the Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade (AKA: Hornet's Nest)?. The only movie I seen it in is ''[[The Longest Yard (2005)]]''
[[File:http://www.bhigear.com/productimages/bh-cts-95.jpg|thumb|Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade]]

Talk:Main Page

2012-11-27T06:03:45Z

Alkillmatic: /* Stingball Grenade */ new section

''See [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive_1]] for older discussions''

==Unknown Pistol==
Is it a [[SIG-Sauer_P230]], [[Walther PP Pistol Series|Walther PP/PPK]] or [[Bersa Thunder 380]]? -- [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]], 21:34, 26 September 2012 (EST)
:Pretty sure it's a PPK. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 08:57, 26 October 2012 (EDT)
[[File:Luther Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:Luther Unknown 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Help Identify this sniper rifle==
It's from the movie My Way 2011. A bolt action sniper rifle used by a Chinese guerilla during the Sino-Japanese war, if context helps. I think it might be a PU-type scope, but not sure: [[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h41m55s165.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m27s215.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m42s124.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h42m45s178.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h43m12s144.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[File:Vlcsnap-2012-08-31-13h55m51s183.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
:It could be a Chinese [[Mauser_Rifle_Series#Type_Zhongzheng_Rifle|Type Zhongzheng Rifle]] if they are trying to make it reasonably historically accurate, and it also seems to be a match for this but I'm no expert on Mausers so can't say for sure. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:08, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
::Looks about right, although it has a turned-down bolt handle.
:::I assumed this movie was shot in Asia but looking on IMDB, turns out it was actually shot in Latvia making a European gun more likely. Also, it looks like the top handguard doesn't extend beyond the rear sight like it does on most foreign Mauser variants, so I think that would make it a [[Karabiner 98k]], which also has the turned-down bolt handle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 31 August 2012 (CDT)

==Thunderheart==

Another movie that is not on this wiki (suprisingly) is the 1992 film "Thunderheart" starring Val Kilmer, the lack of coverage of it is suprising due to the fact it features a prominent actor and a good amount of firearms (2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 19's used by FBI Agents, what appears a Smith & Wesson Model 36 drawn by Kilmer during an attack, as well as M16 or M16A1's that are seen with the old 'Starlight' scopes) in the film. [[User: Czar]]

== Team America: World Police ==

I was surprised to see that this 2004 marionet comedy movie does not appear on IMFDB. Would it be against any IMFDB 'rules' if I created such a page? I watched the movie again over the weekend and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Most guns used by the marionets were indeed somewhat fictional but the creators really seem to have been inspired by real-life guns and I'd love to get started on an IMFDB page for this movie. If nobody objects I will get to work on this. Thanks in advance for your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:02, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:I wouldn't think so; due to the scale of the props, I'm not sure that the weapons would actually be based on actual weapons, just "moulds" of them. I've seen the movie, and I think that they are very generic, so I think that making this page would go against the IMFDb rule of actually identifying weapons. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 15:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The weapons are pretty faithful to real guns. There is at least a Minimi, M134, M4 with 40mm grenade launcher, MP5K (with the stainless steel Navy suppressor), MP5A3, SKS RPG-7 and a few different varieties of AK-47 (identifiable, such as Norinco Type 56 with pig-sticker bayonet and Romanian AIMS). These are just off the top of my head and from a couple of clips on youtube. Even though the guns obviously aren't real I think it deserves a page, as they are all faithful representation of real guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:55, 13 November 2011 (CST)
Thanks for your quick comments, I understand the initial hesitation. However, just check below screenprints and you will see that indeed the makers did their homework, maybe they even checked IMFDB! Commando552's memory serves him right!
[[Image:TeamAmerica-screenshotexample.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I agree that the movie contains a lot of nonsense but I am actually tempted to go ahead, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:11, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:And It will be deleted just like last time as the "Weapons" are just whatever generic 1/6th scale guns the directors could find. they are obviously not real. The page has been deleted before and will most likely be removed again. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:17, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The guns in anime and video games aren't real either. The guns aren't generic from what I can see, can identify them all (more so than some of the guns on pages like [[Crysis 2]]). If mods so no then fair enough, but I think it should have a page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:57, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::: I'm with Commando552 on this one, if it's not eligible because the guns aren't real then all video games and anime should be removed because those guns aren't real they're drawings or digital constructs. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:38, 13 November 2011 (CST)

== New or original gun names? ==

When a gun was originally sold under one name but has since changed, which name should be used? A good example is that right now there are [[LaRue Tactical OSR]] and [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] pages. They are the exact same rifle (OSR image is the standard rifle while OBR is tricked out, both versions are currently shown on the LaRue website as the OBR), LaRue was just forced to change the name due to a copyright problem. In this kind of case, which name should be used? I would have just checked other pages to see what the norm is, but my mind is currently drawing a blank to other guns that have changed their name but remained otherwise the same. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:52, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:Oops... I was the one who made the [[LaRue Tactical OBR]] page. I sincerely thought they were different guns, one a Battle Rifle and the other a Sniper Rifle. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Sortable Tables ==

Zackmann08 had mentioned about modifying our current table format for weapons and actor pages to a version where the boxes are sortable. A sortable template is already made and can be seen on [[Amitabh Bachchan]]'s page (I've now modified it to look a little more like our current table format). This definitely would be beneficial for the gun pages, but I noticed it takes a little bit longer to load and not sure if users will understand what the sortable icon is for. Would like to get thoughts from admins and users on this before a change is completely made. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:18, 16 December 2011 (CST)

:You make a good point about users not knowing what the icon is for. It is in use on wikipedia a lot these days so i think a lot of people are familiar with it and worst case scenario, if they're not then the table is just left in it's default sort. Just my 2 cents on the matter...--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:54, 16 December 2011 (CST)

::It doesn't work with rowspaned tables (like the ones on the [[Heckler & Koch MP5]] page) so it is a one or the other decision. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:28, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::another very good point, but how many rowspan tables are really in use? Other than the MP5 page i dont recall seing any others, though i havent really been looking for them. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:37, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::I've used them a few times, but generally only when there are a number of people from the same show/movie using the same weapon, as I think it looks better than having 10 or so entries with the same title and date in a row. If people decide against the rowspaned tables am happy to get rid of them though, was just my preference. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:50, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:::::I feel ya. They are definitely preferable to listing the same thing over and over but if the choice is between that and sortable tables, personally I think the sortable ones are worth losing the rowspan. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:40, 17 December 2011 (CST)

::::::I like the idea of sortable tables, especially for long pages like [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta 92F/FS]] or [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. However, I have noticed that currently there's a number of page formats depending on the respective contributor. I may not be so experienced with IMFDB like most of you, but it seems to me that it would make more sense to concentrate on developing a way to create a more uniform page format before we spend time on accepting more 'sexy' features. Pretty much like working on a house and spend time on the roof when the foundations have not been properly laid yet. Take care, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:29, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I totally agree with [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]]. I think what we really need is a single page that we can look at that has a template for everything. A section showing how to make a gun page. A section for actors, section for TV Shows, a section for Movies. That way we all know that this is the page everything should be based off of. This would be far better than saying "look at the M1911 page" because even pages like that have inconsistencies with formatting. The special page could even be put in the toolbar on the left side of the page under "toolbox". That would be amazingly helpful. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:57, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Bunni made a template for gun pages: [[Template:Gun]] That's how a newly created gun page should look like. Of course, the gun specifications sections can be expanded with other stuff, like barrel length (if a gun comes with 2 or more different barrels, like the [[Remington MSR]] for example), country of Origin, Designer and Manufacturer (if it is not in the title of the page, e.g. [[9A-91]]).
:And about the sortable tables: I think it is a bad idea. Why would anyone wanna sort a table on an actor page by the notation or character the actor was playing. Sorting by year is the best option IMHO, on both actor and gun pages. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:37, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:: I can see why you wouldn't want to sort by notation, and character would basically result in sorting by movie, but I can see how you would want to sort by what guns an actor has used instead of just what year. Also, one of the benefits of the sortable tables is that some of the older pages that are NOT sorted can be fixed by simply changing the class="wikitable" to class="sortable". As for the template, it does need to be expanded but we also need to find a way to make sure people know it's there and that all pages should follow it. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:17, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is proving to be a highly educational discussion for me as a rookie IMFDB user. Actually, this is the first time I learn about the template pages, and to be honest I fear I am not the only one. Instead of searching through the website, how about simply displaying links to the template pages everytime somebody clicks the button to create a new page? I am sure this will lead to increased uniformity and substantially lower the barrier for new people to get started on a page. Taking things one step further, how about the following? If somebody indicates to create a brand new page, a question box is displayed asking e.g. to make a choice between movie, actor, gun etc. so that after this choice the relating template pops up? Again, I am not sure if this is feasible but I am quite interested to hear your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:23, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::::I LIKE THIS IDEA!!! We definitely need to make a page that has all the templates listed. Right now its really hard to track down the templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:52, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Search for "<nowiki>Category:Templates</nowiki>" and it will show u all the templates. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:20, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::That helps but still that page needs to be publicized better. It also needs to be better explained. How are [[A-Team, The]] or [[MacGyver]] templates? When I create a new page, I find a good page and I copy the 'wiki code' from it into my new page and then just edit the text. My guess is this is what most people do and I feel like that is what we need. A page with dummy titles, names and guns for people to copy to a new page and work from. Thanks for letting me know about the Template page though. Didn't know that was there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::I think that Zackmann08 is hitting the nail on the head. Building on above comments, how about the following? On the left side of all pages there's the master menu table in blue ('CATEGORIES/SPECIAL/TOOLBOX'). In 'CATEGORIES' one can choose between Movies/Guns/Actors/etc so why not add something simple like 'Templates for New Pages'? If you click that, you'd see just 7 options for new pages; (1) Movie, (2) TV, (3) Anime, (4) Video, (5) Actor, (6) Gun and (7) Others (for whatever else can be 'templated'). Any choice would lead to one single template with dummy info and a short explanation on how to use it. This way an immediate and easy access to the templates will be realized, rather than (I am sorry to say) searching through several menu's in the Toolbox option and finding dozens of random templates. Interested to know what you guys think, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 05:21, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::::This sounds perfect to me! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:41, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:::::So, any volunteers willing and able to start on an addition to "Categories" with "Templates for New pages"? Am not too familiar with such revisions, but do we need authorization from anybody? --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 09:25, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== Merry Christmas! ==

[[Image:IMFDB 2011 Christmas Card.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:22, 22 December 2011 (CST)

HAHAHA! I love it!

Merry Christmas guys :) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:05, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Brands Pages ==

I had an interesting idea that I was curious what others thought of. I was thinking it might be helpful to have a page that listed all the guns made by a certain company. For example, a "Smith & Wesson" page that would list all the guns that they have. To clarify, it would only list guns that are on this site. As per the rules this is NOT a gun encyclopedia and gun pages are only on this site if they appear in a movie/tv show/etc. I feel that it could be quite helpful in trying to identify weapons. We could divide the pages into Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns, Rifles, etc. just like a movie page and set it up as a table perhaps with some of the characteristics listed such as caliber(s), barrel length(s), etc. Would could even have a 'notes' column that list certain characteristics that help to identify it (for example for Taurus 92, "distinguished from the Beretta by its frame-mounted safety").

If this is an idea that people think might be useful, and if an admin will give me approval, I would love to create a trial page for one of the smaller companies. (I'd rather not do S&W to start with if it turns out people don't like it). I could perhaps start with Ruger which has a good number of guns. Please share your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:07, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:Sounds like an interesting plan. Thing is that quite often I see a gun and I have a general idea what brand it could be but then I find myself flipping through many gunpages in the IMFDB hoping that the gun I am looking for has been properly registered under that brand's name. In the case of e.g. Smith & Wesson (to name but a brand...) I can imagine such a page to be very useful. Will be following this discussion, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah it seems like it would be a good idea.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 10:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)

Trial page is up and running! I went ahead and did [[Ruger]]. I threw in a gallery as well. I'm not sure whether it's better have it right after the table or to put it at the bottom of the page or what. Please share all your thoughts on the page! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:23, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I think there is no need for the tables '''and''' galleries. Just simply put the caliber after the gun's name in the gallery. Like: "Ruger LCP - .380 ACP". Sorting gun's by type if definitely good, and seeing the thumbnail of the gun's will really speed up the IDing process (at least for me it will). The whole idea of these pages is great, considering that some guns (mostly Russians) are listed without the manufacturers' names. If more pages like this will spawn, we will need a "Gun Manufacturers" category, or something like that. I definitely support this idea, but the mods will decide. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I completely agree. The only thing is that some of these guns have 5+ calibers which could be cumbersome in the Gallery format... It would be great to have a 'Gun Manufacturers' category. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:25, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::I also added the [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]] pages. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:44, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::You could put them in table but have the far right column be a picture (put in <nowiki>[[Image:file_name.jpg|200px]]</nowiki>). Would take up more vertical room than a gallery, but you could then include calibre, magazine size (helpfull for identifying different 5/6 shot cylinder revolvers, and differences between double/single stack handguns for example), year introduced (which would also help with ruling stuff out for IDs in older films/TV) etc. I suppose a notes catagory could also ,be usefull, say if a gun is available in multiple finishes and stuff like that. I think these pages are a good idea, but I think having the specifications section is a bit irrelevent for a company, I would just tag it on the end of "About". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 23 December 2011 (CST)

This is what you mean, Commando?
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Weapon'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Caliber(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Capacity'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Introduced'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Image'''
|-
|[[Remington MSR]]|| .338 Lapua Magnum<br>.338 Norma Magnum<br>.300 Winchester Magnum<br>7.62x51mm NATO || 5, 7, 10|| Late 2000s||[[Image:RemingtonMSR.jpg|200px]]
|-
|[[XM2010|Remington XM2010 ESR]]|| .300 Winchester Magnum || 5|| 2010||[[Image:XM2010.jpg|200px]]
|-
|}
You are right BTW, the year and capacity can help a lot in IDing. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:THAT LOOKS AWESOME!!! I am sold... That is how I am doing it. Next question, what do we want to do about variants? For example with the [[FN FAL]] do we also list the [[FN LAR]] on the [[FN Herstal]] page or just the [[FN FAL]] and figure if you are trying to identify the gun you will go to the FN FAL page and look at the variants? Same goes for the [[FN SCAR]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:28, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, that's what I mean. I think this is more usefull than just a gallery, and also it would be a place where sortable tables would definitely be useful, as you could sort the guns by name or chronologically. For a while I've been meaning to do a table of all the Colt AR-15 variants for my own use, but would be good for the Colt page. AR-15s are kind of a special case as their are so many variants that are very similar at first glance, so would include more columns (like upper/lower receiver type, barrel length and profile, bayonet lug, stuff like that) so someone who didn't know much about different variants could sort the columns and work out what a gun is. Regardless if it ends up going on the Colt page, I'm going to make it and put it on my user page to see how it turns out.
::As for different variants I would list them as they can look noticeably different, as is the case with the FAR and the LAR (these are pretty distinctly different weapons, more of a grey area would be listing different FAL variants such as the 50.00, 50.61 and 50.63). With guns like the SCAR, I think the split should just be between the H and the L, not the different barrel lengths. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:43, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:::Fair enough. The other idea that I had was to add an additional column called "variants". This would be great for weapons like the MP5 which all have the same base. Got the idea from this wikipedia page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heckler_%26_Koch_products Heckler and Koch]. Glad to see so many people are taking a liking to this idea. I defiantly want to make it happen. Also, the AR-15 idea is a GREAT one. Perhaps a 1911 page as well. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:56, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::You talking like one page for ALL 1911 variants, or seperate pages for each 1911 company? But then how would we handle, say, an SW1911? Would it be on the S&W page, or the 1911 page? Or both?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:I've continued working on the three trial pages ([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]] & [[FN Herstal]]). I have noticed that A LOT of these guns are missing the most basic information (no specifications). If anyone is looking for a task, that would be a great one. I will do my part once I get these pages fully up. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:32, 23 December 2011 (CST)
Loving the idea, I am considering making a SIG-Sauer trial page with the basics only, then going back later and adding in lesser known stuff. But I want to see how these pages come along!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:31, 23 December 2011 (CST)

'''Please keep in mind that the mods will decide. DO NOT create additional gun manufacturer pages until an approval comes from them. It will be a waste of time if they delete them later.''' - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:26, 24 December 2011 (CST)
::That is why I said wanted to see what happened to these pages first.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:19, 24 December 2011 (CST)
:Another thing that would be great, is if anyone wants to go through the trial pages (([[Ruger]], [[Barrett]], [[Heckler & Koch]] & [[FN Herstal]]) and make sure that each weapon has specifications on its page that would be great. As i was creating these pages I noticed that most of the weapons were lacking the most basic specifications and info. (This could be yet another use for these pages!) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:08, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::We had this discussion in the forum a long time ago, and the consensus was that it was NOT a useful means of classifying weapons on the site. Hence why I deleted the page originally. I'm still not sure it's all that useful. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 08:58, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::::I respectfully disagree. For someone like me who is a still a novice with guns it is exceptionally helpful when identifying weapons. This will be particularly true when it comes to things like the Smith and Wesson revolvers. It is often easy to identify the revolver is a Smith and Wesson but harder to know which model. If there is a single page that list all the Smith and Wesson revolvers it saves us from having to go through page by page. I just find it is so helpful to have one location where you can see a picture and the '''basics''' of the possible weapons. If it is helpful for some of us is it okay to leave these up? I will personally make sure that the pages are done in a professional looking manner and are not sloppily thrown together. I truly believe that (as long as they are done in the proper manner) they can make a fantastic addition to this already awesome website. (ok so that was a bit of kissing up but it's true, this site freaking rocks! :-) ) I'm also using this 'project' as an excuse to update many of these weapons so that their pages are in the correct format with specifications and descriptions.
::::I appreciate that I am still a new guy here and I '''really DO NOT''' want to be that guy who joins and says "nice thing you got going here but you should really change it because I know better." I DO NOT know better, please don't take this in that light. I am merely saying that there are a lot of people who would like to contribute but don't have the knowledge that some of you experts do. I think that this addition would help us novices contribute. I welcome your feedback. Oh, and a Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah to everyone! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:21, 24 December 2011 (CST)

I propose changing 'introduced' to 'produced' and having it be a to and from date. Basically how long the weapon was in productions for. 1995-2005 rather than just 1995 for example. Any thoughts?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 25 December 2011 (CST)

Would love to hear some feedback from the admins on this project. I would like to continue with it but don't want to do a bunch of work and then have the pages removed. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:13, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Looks good. I'm a mod here. I really like the Colt page. The S&W page is going to be an intensive piece of labor for you. I agree with bunni. We need a category for these new pages. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:29, 27 December 2011 (CST)

I'm a mod as well and I really like what I'm seeing. This will be a lot of work but I think it will be quite an invaluable resource once it is finished, as long as it is done well. Kudos. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 21:51, 6 January 2012 (CST)

I started the [[SIG-Sauer]] page, and am about 3/4 done. Any help would be appreciated! Oh, and if anyone knows how to change the name of a page I would greatly appreciate for it to be renamed ''SIG-Sauer Inc.''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:33, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:[[SIG-Sauer]] is fine. According to Bunni we are not using "inc" or "LLC" in the page titles. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:34, 16 January 2012 (CST)

::That's fine, I wasn't sure if it was necessary or not.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:19, 16 January 2012 (CST)

== Battle Los Angeles ==

I have a question that I cant seem to get a good bead on, in the movie Battle Los Angeles Aaron Eckhart is seen using an m9 Beretta as his pistol,which I know is the main side arm used by US military forces. However, it was my understanding that the Marines used the 1911 as their sidearm and were the only branch to keep it as the main side arm. Eckhart's character in the movie is a grizzled old vet and had just put in for his 20 at the beginning of the movie meaning that he must have joined back in 1990-1991 and it would make sense to me why he would hold on to something like that. Either way please let me know what you got, thanks NavyBoyd
:For movie-specific discussions, please go to [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Talk:Battle:_Los_Angeles|the associated talk page]].--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 19:57, 23 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Page Templates ==

As part of the 'Gun Brands Pages' project (see above), I am also trying to make sure that each weapon included has specifications listed on its page. I am using the following as my template. If anyone thinks it is missing anything, please let me know. (Note that I made it a subheading with 3 '=' instead of the normal 2 '=' so that it wouldn't be its own category. normally it would just have 2.) I personally don't feel that Muzzle Velocity or effective range are necessary but I am up for input and critique. Just want to make sure I am doing this right! Merry Christmas everyone!
Oh and under FireModes I am including DA,SA,DAO,DA/SA if applicable. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:38, 25 December 2011 (CST)
<br><br><-- start template-->
===Specifications===
(year - year)

* '''Type:''' Handgun/Revolver/Submachine Gun/Sniper Rifle/etc.

* '''Caliber(s):'''

* '''Weight:''' lb ( kg) (empty)

* '''Length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Barrel length:''' in ( mm)

* '''Capacity:'''

* '''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi-Auto/Full-Auto (950rounds/min)

-----
<--end template-->
:Another question that one of the veterans can help me out with. With guns that have Variations ([[Heckler & Koch P2000]] or [[Heckler & Koch USP]] for example), should each subcategory have its own specifications with the different length, capacity, etc. For example should the [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] have just one specifications section for the page or should there be one for the H&K P2000 and one for the H&K P2000SK. (This is the way I did the page but I want to make sure that this is ok. If I'm supposed to just do one section I will gladly correct it.) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:03, 25 December 2011 (CST)

== I can't create a new thread in the forum ==

I logged into the forum and tried to create a new thread, but I get a message that says I don't have permission to access the page. I'm using a different username than I have used before, so is my account "awaiting activation?"--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 11:06, 1 January 2012 (CST)
:I had the same problem a few days ago. You want to talk to [[User:Bunni|Bunni]]. He'll fix it for ya. Happy new year. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:28, 1 January 2012 (CST)
::Thanks for your help. I followed your advice and left a message for Bunni over a week ago but he hasn't yet responded. Has he not been around lately?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 10:12, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== I think it's time to end the silencer/suppressor debate ==

I see this a lot, people correct other people "It's a suppressor, not a silencer. It doesn't silence the gun" and I think it really needs to stop. Way back in 1910, the first silencer was patented by Hiram Maxim as the '''SILENCER'''. Way back then, they weren't even that good compared to today's because the technology has been advanced on yet they were still called silencers. Them having the name silencer is just a name, after all there is a model of the Ithaca 37 called "Deer Slayer". It's a inanimate object which cannot slay deer. It can be used to kill deer however but the name doesn't fit it unless it operated on it's own to shoot deer. There are some people named Rose or Diamond but they aren't a flower or an expensive jewel. My point is with this is that it's just a name. Even today, the BATFE calls them silencers on the paper work and many companies that make them call them silencers. There is even a company called SilencerCO.

The reason why a lot of people call them suppressor is because in the 1970s the magazine, Soldier of Fortune, started calling them suppressors and giving the reason that I stated in the first sentence. Most people that I've seen that actually own them call them silencers and they have most likely done their research on them.

In conclusion, calling them silencers is not wrong and neither is calling them suppressors. You call them either and you're right. It's when you claim that silencer is the improper term. Silencer is just a name, it's the way it is.
--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:20, 9 January 2012 (CST)

: I personally prefer "suppressor", it's a nice, ''woody'', sort of word. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 13:51, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:: Yes, "silencer" is a name, but it's a misnomer. "Silencer" suggests absolutely no sound is produced when a shot is fired; "Suppressor" properly states that the sound will be muffled instead of completely silenced. It's the same as saying bullet-resistant instead of bulletproof. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 17:52, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::I don't see anyone complaining that their shotgun doesn't kill deer on it's own. IT'S A NAME and it's correct. .223 fires a .224 caliber bullet, are you going to complain about that too?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:37, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::::I agree. I think "Suppressor" sounds more accurate and professional. If it were a silencer, there would be little or no sound at all, which unless you use a suppressed .22 with half loads and a plastic bottle, is impossible, and even THAT makes a sound. I say we go with Suppressor.--[[User:Scattergun]]

:::::While "Silencer" is correct in general terms, the term "suppressor" is preferred largely because of the Hollywood concept of the "magic silencer" that literally makes a gunshot into the sound of a kitten sneezing. The "suppressor" term was coined to give a more realistic idea of what the device actually does; it suppresses the sound, it doesn't silence it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:05, 14 January 2012 (CST)

== NCIS: LA gun change? ==

The latest episode of NCIS: LA "Exit Strategy" the guns don't see to be the normal Sig 228s. The guns are still Sigs, but with rails, and Deeks was not carrying his normal Beretta. Deeks' weapon may have been the same S&W used in the episode "Empty Quiver". -Tucker

== Single or Double-Stack 1911? ==

Which is a better 1911 variant to have? A single stack or a double stack magazine. I heard somewhere that a 14-shot 1911 is more prone to jamming but I'm not sure. The reason is I am currently writing a script for an independent movie that me and my class will make and I have access to all kinds of guns, both blank-adapted and Japanese flash cap versions, and the main character is to carry a 1911 .45 and I was wondering what the more professional choice would be to carry.
:Personally I would go for a Kimber Custom II TLE or a Springfield Armoury TRP, both are single stackers. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:58, 13 January 2012 (CST)

== Novel guns? ==

I know this may seem like a stupid idea, but should we include guns that feature in books? I have several books in my bookcase that go into great detail about guns, albeit sometimes they call sub-machine guns machine guns for some reason. (Seriously, how can you mix it up?) I'm new here, please go easy, but please give it some thought. They could either be on the book cover or featured in print inside. I know it would be pointless to include a screenshot of the text, but there are some pages on IMFDB that are just lists of guns and pictures of the guns themselves.
Alasdair

:Check out the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page. It will help set your straight. Good thing for new users to read (I found this out the hard way just a few weeks ago when I joined). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:35, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Ah, I see. Thanks. Alasdair.

== Manufacturer Pages ==

With more people starting to work on Manufacturer Pages, I'm working on making a template for the pages ([[Manufacturer Template]]). I am going to add a link to it from the <nowiki>[[Category:Manufacturer]]</nowiki> page. I figure this will help to make sure that they all stay consistent. (Note: not all of the pages that I have already made conform to the standards that I listed on the template, I will be fixing that in the next few days.) My goal is to make sure that these pages look professional and are useful! If anyone, particularly admins, has things that would like to add to the pages or to correct with future pages, please edit the template accordingly. Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:41, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Glock Manufacturer's Page ==

I was getting ready to make the Glock page for the new Manufacturers category and ran into a small problem. The new page would ideally be called ''Glock'' but that is already taken by the [[Glock]] page which has all their guns. I definitely think this page would be helpful (at least I know it would I'd find it useful) as it will help you decide whether you are looking at a G17 or a G21. I welcome any and all ideas and suggestions. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:54, 19 January 2012 (CST)
:The actual company is trademarked in all capitals as GLOCK so you could do that. Either that or you could put "manufacturer" in brackets after it, or make this the one exception where you put on the crap after the name, in this case "Ges.m.b.H.". If not that, I don't think a manufacturer page is as important for Glocks as other brands, as they are all already on the same page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:05, 19 January 2012 (CST)
::All good ideas. I'll prolly just go with (manufacturer). I agree that its not as important but it could still be super useful. I think I'm going to add a 'frame' column like we did with the S&W revolvers. This time it will have "Compact" "Standard", "SubCompact", etc.. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:29, 19 January 2012 (CST)

== Taurus ==

I am in the process of redoing all the [[Taurus]] gun pages. Giving them all specifications, converting to wiki-table, etc. If there are any Taurus aficionados in the house who are willing and able to fill in the information that I am having trouble finding (mainly production dates), that would be great! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:15, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Beretta ==

I'm in the process of making the [[Beretta]] page. My understanding is that for Semi-Automatic pistols we DO NOT include "Model" in the page title, [[Beretta 418]] for example. There are a few pages that are not consistent with this pattern. Just want to make sure that they are all named correctly and follow the same rules. Could an admin look into this? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:52, 20 January 2012 (CST)

== Proper name for CZ ==

It has been brought to my attention that the new Manufacturer page for [[CZ]] may not be properly named. The full name of the manufacturer is "Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod". I am hesistant to use this name for a couple reasons. 1) Its kind of a pain to type on a 'standard' keyboard. 2) Most people (I THINK) know the company as "CZ". One possible compromise I'm considering is renaming the page "CZ (Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod) and having "CZ" redirect there. I would love to hear some thoughts on the matter. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:45, 25 January 2012 (CST)
:I would use the full name with a redirect, but if you are calling it CZUB rather than Česká zbrojovka, that would exclude at least a couple of guns, such as the vz. 24 which was made by Československá zbrojovka Brno. I'm no expert on CZ, but it was my understanding that any words after the "Česká zbrojovka" part were just different factories, or is this wrong? While talking about proper names for gun pages, what should the page be called if the manufacturer has changed its name or merged? For example, when I made the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]] page I used the original name rather than Royal Ordnance. However I was going to make a Denel Land Systems page, which was originally called Lyttleton Engineering Works, but the Denel name is much more commonly known so didn't know what to use. Any suggestions for a general rule on this sort of thing? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:23, 25 January 2012 (CST)
::I think we definitely need a [[CZ]] expert to take a look at this page... Any volunteers??? As for the different names, first and foremost, whatever the page ends up being, there should be redirects form all the others. So for example [[Royal Ordnance]] should redirect to the [[Royal Small Arms Factory]]. Also, whatever the final name of the page ends up being, there should be a short explanation about the fact that it is "Also Known As ______" or "Formally Known As ____". As for a general rule, while I think it would be best to go with what the company is most commonly known as, in the end, that is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think the rule of thumb should be to go with what the company is currently known as (use the company website?) and have other names redirect there. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
::As a side note, while talking about redirect, I'm also trying to set up redirects for these pages that will help newcomers when searching the site. For example, if you search S&W now, instead of getting a page listing all the times that that the letters 'S' and 'W' appear on a page, you are now taken to the [[Smith & Wesson]] page. Just food for thought. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:36, 25 January 2012 (CST)
what exactly do you want to know about the CZ? I grew up in czechoslovakia, we used to carry these handguns in the army.

==A question about a bolt ==

Off-topic, but could anyone ID this bolt? http://www.forgottenweapons.com/mystery-bolt
Thanks, a relatively new and inexperienced user.

==Site Policy On 'Made Up' Weapons==
Could someone please clarify the site's policy on guns fabricated for films and videogames? I've edited articles on the Killzone games in the past only to have the articles taken down altogether because the guns featured aren't real. Now I'd accept that as fair enough, except other articles (e.g. [[Alien: Resurrection]] and [[Perfect Dark]]) deal with non-existent weapons at some length and nobody complains, even though some of the weapons they describe feature far ''less'' in common with real guns than the Killzone games' weapons did; at least many of those featured parts that were readily identifiable as belonging to real-world weapons. By deleting one and sparing the others, you're creating something of a double standard--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] 09:56, 31 January 2012 (CST)

== Gun Title Template ==

Is there any way to get rid of the '''<nowiki><br clear=all></nowiki>''' that results from using the Gun Title template? I noticed that it can cause some problems when the gun in question has multiple images as there will be a bunch of white space before the list of occurrences. For an example of what I mean look at [[Smith & Wesson Model 610]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:14, 1 February 2012 (CST)

== Gangster Squad ==

Since I can't create a thread in the forum I decided to post this here.

The upcoming movie Gangster Squad will be released this year, and someone managed to record scenes being filmed, then posted the videos on Youtube. A couple of the videos feature shootouts.

This first one shows the "Gangster Squad" involved in a firefight and has a lot of M1 Thompson action:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlUBrd0uTc&feature=endscreen&NR=1 Gangster Squad 1]

The second video shows what I'm assuming are gangster-types, which is shot too far away to make positive ID's on all the weapons, but I think I know what most of them are. Two of them are using the usual Thompsons, but the guy kneeling between the cars seems to have a Sten, judging by the way he's holding it. There's another guy firing an smg, which due to the way he's holding it and it's rate of fire, I think is either an MP-40 or M-3. It's impossible to tell because he's obscured by a car. I'm pretty sure the guy up in the building is using a Lewis Gun.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xf0iEgtzBw&feature=related Gangster Squad 2]

I love these period crime movies, and this one looks really promising. What I'm seeing in these videos suggests there will be some great shootouts in this movie, and I just hope that's what we actually get in the final cut--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 09:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

== How do i add upload an image here? ==

I have gun to add, how do i add an image of it?

Also, how do i create a user page for myself?

Sorry if i am in the wrong section. If so, then please guide me to the right section.

:Look to the left; under Toolbox is upload file. To edit your user page, go to the top of the screen, where it has your username, followed by My Talk, My Preferences, ect. Click your username (red means there is nothing there yet).--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:38, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Fictional Airsoft Guns ==

Just noticed that on the [[Milkor MGL]] page there is an entry for the [[Milkor_MGL#CAW_40mm_Grenade_Launcher|CAW 40mm Grenade Launcher]], an airsoft grenade launcher. It seems random that it is on this page as it is a fictional design that shares basically nothing with the Milkor. Are there many other fictional airsoft variants that appear in stuff (only one I can think of off the top of my head is that weird AKS-74U variant that is in Call of Duty), if so is it worth creating a page for fictional airsoft guns that do not have a real world equivalent? I previously made a similar page for [[Blank Fire Only Guns]] that are not based on any specific live fire weapon, would be like that. Anyone have any thoughts on this? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:56, 7 February 2012 (CST)

- Personally, I think if it resembles the weapon, even if its fictional, it should share the page at the bottom. After all, the Bruni 1911 and the Bruni Python aren't real guns but they share a page with their real world Colt counterparts. At least thats how I feel about it. -[[User:Scattergun]]

:That is different to what I am talking about though. The very reason that the two guns you mentioned are where they are (at the bottom of the live fire equivalent page) rather than on the blank fire page is that they are clearly based on real world guns. The Bruni Olympic 6 however isn't based on any particular real world design and is just a generic revolver, hence it being on the blank fire page. My idea was that airsoft guns that are not based on any particular gun, such as the grenade launcher I mentioned above, could be put on one page for ID and listing purposes. My question really was are there enough "unique", for lack of a better term, airsoft guns around to make a page like this worth it? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:10, 7 February 2012 (CST)

== Naming conventions for SIG guns ==

Now that I have finished the S&W pages, I am moving on to revamping the SIG Sauer pages. I wanted to get feedback, particularly from admins, about the consisten disagreement about SIG vs SIG Sauer vs SIG-Sauer and see if we could come to a consensus. Some of the page have the full '''SIG-Sauer''' in the title ([[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] & [[SIG-Sauer P230]]) while other simply have '''SIG''' ([[SIG P210]] & [[SIG SG 540]]). If for no other reason than to make sure that FUTURE pages are done correctly, which is the proper format? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:49, 9 February 2012 (CST)
:It's not a matter of shorthand, the correct title depends on the firearm in question. The pistols with SIG-Sauer as the title were made by SIG-Sauer Inc., while the ones with SIG as the title were made by SIG independently, not with Sauer. Generally, the older guns (P210 & 510) are made by SIG only or Swiss Arms (which refers to themselves as SIG), while newer guns are SIG-Sauer. What I suppose I'm trying to say is that the titles are accurate as-is. As to whether the admins want SIG-Sauer or SIG Sauer is beyond me, although as they are two companies joined together I'm pretty sure there would be a hyphen.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:27, 9 February 2012 (CST)
::OOOOOHHHHHHHHH!! That makes so much more sense.... I never actually realized that SIG and Sauer were 2 separate companies that merged. Thank you SO much for that explanation!
::Given that, disregard my initial question! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 00:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
:::Having said that, I still think all of the page that say "SIG-Sauer" should get rid of the hyphen and say "SIG Sauer", as this is how both the Swiss/German and American companies spell it. If there is an actual reason for adding in a hyphen then fair enough, but has always seemed a bit random to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:17, 10 February 2012 (CST)
Taken directly from the [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series]] page: ''NOTE: In the past, some IMFDB users have mis-spelled "SIG-Sauer" as "Sig Sauer". "Sig Sauer" is not the correct spelling; "SIG" is an acronym for Swiss Industrial Society ("Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft " in German), and thus, all three letters should be capitalized. Also, it is preferred that IMFDB users put a hyphen between "SIG" and "Sauer".''--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:23, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:I've seen the message that putting the hyphen in is the preferred method on imfdb, but I don't understand why this is. As I said, neither the US or swiss/german companies use the hyphen so why do we? If it is a formatting reason or something technical that I don't understand then fair enough, but otherwise I think it should be deleted. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:09, 12 February 2012 (CST)
::I have to agree with Commando here... Both Wikipedia and http://www.sigsauer.com/ list it as '''SIG Sauer'''. Why was the decision made to include the Hyphen here? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:36, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Television wikitable ==

Up until now I have been using the following table for any pages that I convert from list format to table format:
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Show Title / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' / "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
I was considering modifying this to give '''Episode''' its own column. I wanted to see what people thought of this idea...
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Episode(s)'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
| ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' || "Down to the Wire" || [[Tom Sizemore]] || Private Investigator Kurt Rossi || || 2002 - Present
|-
|}
Any feedback is appreciated. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 01:26, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:I've been combining the episode and note columns. I think I picked that up from Ben. That always made sense for me because episode info or notes are sometimes missing or unnecessary, while Show Title is ALWAYS present. I've always tried to supply episode info, and it could get a little tight when it's in there with the show name. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 01:42, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Sako vs SAKO ==

I want to come to another consensus here... Is it SAKO or Sako? I.E. [[SAKO 85 Hunter]] vs [[Sako TRG-21]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:40, 11 February 2012 (CST)
:It's an acronym (Suojeluskuntain Ase- ja Konepaja Oy), which would suggest all caps. If you go to the US website, the page is titled "SAKO Finland." Strangely enough, if you go to the "Company" link, they refer to themselves as just "Sako." --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:36, 11 February 2012 (CST)

== Companies w/ one single product ==

I have always wondered, what about those companies that have only one single product, like AMSD, Rafael, DRS Precisions,... (I am sure there is more) Can they have a Manufacturer page or not? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 06:53, 12 February 2012 (CST)
:Can they? Yes... Should they? No... Just my humble opinion... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:49, 12 February 2012 (CST)

== Featured Articles ==

Question for our admins regarding the featured articles on the main page. What is the process for becoming a featured article? I know that for obvious reasons (preventing vandalism, etc.) the [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] is locked, but is there a way for us non-admins to suggest new articles? Could we perhaps set something up whereby non-admins could post an addition in the discussion page for [[Template:FeaturedArticle2]] and if an admin approves of the addition, it could then be added into the mix? I really do love the random articles that pop up on the front page but as a very frequent visitor, seeing the same images over and over starts to get a little boring... Even just changing the images for a given "Featured Article" would be nice. For example, keeping [[The Unit]] (one of the best articles on the site) as a featured article but choosing 2 different images to be displayed. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:34, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Wannabe Indie game dev has some questions ==

I'm looking into making a simple target range simulator, most likely in a software like Unity3d or Coppercube which i have experience in. I am however unsure if entire realism is a good or possibly bad move, not only for game-play, but also because I feel it wouldn't have that... special feeling of a video game, when you play a role playing game for example, they all have their own mood. Pokemon is not Final Fantasy is not The Elder Scrolls. My main concern is how all target range simulator's I've played always go graphics realism, but the shooting mechanics tend to be surreal. This makes it not very fun for many people, people who like goals in their games get to set high scores, but not much else. People who possess firearm knowledge are easily ticked off by the fact that it is trying to be real, but lacks true realism due to all sorts of game-play errors. So while this may seem far fetched, my idea is simple. Mix a realistic (game-play) target range with surreal and almost child-like simple 3d graphics and a basic plot. For those familiar with the concepts in Pokemon, the player character has two primary goals, to collect info on all the monsters, and to defeat all the gym leaders and then the elite four. Target ranges would be like gyms, each has people who you can challenge to accuracy, fastest shot, and other contests of skill. While traveling from range to range, you can collect more firearms, not in grass, but from vendors and helping people with small side-quests, etc. I doubt this kind of a game would receive much, if any audience, particularly being that it's too serious and gun-friendly in content for most children (or more specifically, their parents) to buy, and it's far too childish in graphics for Adults. It's a happy middle where it's a game i would personally love to play, and hopefully so would a few others out there somewhere. All in all, I think a target range and competition based collection RPG with a heavy emphasis on gameplay and fun while still maintaining key aspects of gun culture would be a unique game. (things like policing your brass to be reused with powder and appropriate caliber bullets as a cheaper way to procure and load ammunition, maybe even allowing you to tweak the amount of powder that way). It's hard to explain the whole concept as I haven't nailed every little thing down yet. I was planning on starting the project on a smaller scale, then slowly adding more. So is this a good idea or am i barking up the wrong tree? I'd love to do full realism, but I honestly want the game to be atleast partially fun or stylized. (I am not looking for help making this game, I merely want feedback on the ideas) (I also hope I did not break anything by posting this, I am unfamiliar with wiki editing, and I am relying on your guides.) --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 12:31, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:First thing: please post "I am not a bot" after this message before you post anything else on this wiki. Your message seems a little...out of place, and I want to check it's not automated spam. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:44, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Not a bot, Sorry for any confusion based on the ludicrous idea and my unusual name choice. I couldn't find any other place where i could... Oh. you have a forum. How did i miss that? Sorry. Seems so obvious now that it's glaring at me on the left. And now I forgot to sign. --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:07, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Email confirmed on forums, but now Posting Rules: You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts... Whaaa? --[[User:Pepper|Pepper]] 14:12, 18 February 2012 (CST)

:::Unfortunately the automatic approvals don't work for some reason, you'll need to leave a message on [[User:Bunni]]'s talk page to get approved. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:06, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== Top Shot ==

For all you [[Top Shot]] fans, we have a new viewer of IMFDB. I just got re-tweeted by Colby Donaldson... He's checking out the page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:16, 22 February 2012 (CST)
:Haha, that's great!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:18, 22 February 2012 (CST)

== SOCOM 4 ==
Anyone agree it would would a great idea to add Socom 4 with the other SOCOM games in the video game category?--[[User:Commandoninja137|Commandoninja137]] 21:28, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== CSI ==

I am in the process of trying to redo the [[CSI]] pages. There are a LOT of guns used in these series. I feel like they deserve as much attention as the [[NCIS]] pages which are awesome at the moment. If anyone has any of the seasons on DVD and is interested in helping that would be awesome. I just finished [[CSI: NY - Season 7]] and am preparing to do season 6. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:46, 24 February 2012 (CST)

== New "Current" template ==

So we already have a number of awesome templates for labeling pages. The '''Upcoming''' template for stuff that hasn't been released yet. The '''Work in Progress''' template for pages that someone is currently working on. Anyone have any thoughts on making a new template for pages that are currently being updated? For example, the current season of [[NCIS]] or the current season of [[Hawaii Five-0]]. There not exactly "upcoming" because the upcoming template specifically says "all images are from trailers" and they aren't exactly a work in progress... Just a thought. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:20, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== New category: "Containing Unidentified Firearm"? ==

I was just wondering if it would make sense to create a new category "Containing Unidentified Firearm" for movies that contain a gun that cannot be identified by the page creator. This way, anybody (like me...) who gets a kick out of identifying a gun that other people could not, can very efficiently assist others to complete pages. If you guys think it's a good idea, any suggestions how to create/promote this category? Thanks for any comments, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:43, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was thinking about that just last night... I think its a GREAT idea! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:32, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::Great! Could you advise on the following; (1) what would be a good name? (2) how to create that category? and (3) how can I get other users to start using the category? Look forward to hear from you, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:49, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I would advise talking to a few admins before doing anything else. We wanna get feedback from them before proceeding. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:38, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::::A good name for this category might be "Movies with unidentified guns" or "Featuring unknown weapons" or something like that. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:16, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::I agree that something like this would be a good idea. Something to bear in mind though, there are a lot of pages with unidentified guns on this site, most of the time because they are only seen partially, briefly, from a distance or in poor lighting, or just due to the fact that they may be "generic" looking (I bet there are a hell of a lot of pages on here that say "unidentified revolver"). With most of these guns it will be impossible to get a firm ID so the tag will remain there forever, meaning that if someone wanted to try and be helpful and ID a few guns 99% of them would be a vaguely pistol shaped shadow (if it was a chronological list this would be less of a problem but categories are alphabetised). I think a better solution might be to have a discussion page somewhere where people can post caps of unidentified guns they have found whilst building pages, adding the new unidentified gun at the top of the page. This way you would be able to periodically purge the guns that are unidentifiable (e.g. speck in the distance) and would allow discussion between people to help ID the guns. I think it would also be a more successful way of getting unknown guns identified, as if you are good at IDing guns you can just watch this hypothetical page and see whenever a new unidentified gun crops up, as opposed to with a category where you don't know (as for as I know) when something has been added to it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
Commando makes a good point. I propose a middle ground. There is a difference between "'''I''' cannot identify this gun" and "this gun cannot be identified". A gun that is only seen for a split second may not be identifiable and may simply be called an "unknown" revolver/pistol/etc. Pages that have those types of guns would NOT fall under this category. On the other hand, if you are working on a page and dont know what some of the guns are, you can add the tag and that will be a clue to some of our more experienced members to swoop in and help out. I'm in the process of capping all 20+ seasons of the 3 [[CSI]]s and there are a LOT of guns (particularly revolvers) that I can't identify but from time to time senior members come in and identify them. It would be great to tag these pages until either a) all guns are identified or b) a determination is made that 1 or more guns simply cannot be identified from the images provided. Basically I look at this as a variation of the WorkInProcess template. The page is done, all guns are uploaded, but not everything has been identified. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:56, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
:Check out the template... [[Template:Unidentified]] --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:44, 11 March 2012 (CDT)
::As long as it was only used for guns that could be identified if you knew what they were rather than guns you don't see properly it would probably be helpful. Still, would be nice if there was some way of doing it chronologically so you could see when a new thing with unidentified guns is added. Just throwing it out there, here is another possible image to use for the unidentified guns template. I think it looks more like a question mark and is actually made from real weapons (a Korobov TKB-022 and a No. 74 sticky bomb). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:06, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::[[File:Question mark 2.jpg|thumb|50px|none|]]
:::AWWW but i spent so much time making that quesiton mark just right!!! Grrr... Yorus is better tho... :-p --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:29, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
I like the idea and the templates, but rather than make it too complicated trying to get the question mark perfect, what if we just put a gun overlaying a simple, perfectly recognizable question mark. I like the idea of making the gun into a question mark, but I really have to look in order to see it on those. If I had any idea how to make one, I would.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 15:59, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:I don't mind if the question mark gun thing isn't used, in fact a regular blacked out background photo of a gun would be better as would be more in keeping with the other templates, but what is the perfect "unknown" gun that the majority of people cannot identify? [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Gun_Cylon_stunt.jpg This]? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::We could use something like that, or what about a blurry outline of a gun in front of a question mark? I think that the question mark makes the template identifiable, rather than just the words 'Unidentified Firearm' across the middle.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:02, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
:::I like [[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]]'s idea. We definatly want to keep the question mark up there. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:05, 12 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Since the majority of unidentified guns I've seen are revolvers, why not make it a S&W Model 27 or a Colt Official Police (or some other revolver... I dislike the idea of using a weird gun for some reason). Maybe make it a Vz 58? It looks like an AK to the untrained eye, and would be mistaken for such if not for the people on this website. Inside joke, huh? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:24, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::Thanks for all your input, what a short post from me a week ago can cause hahaha I like the 'Unidentified' logo and I have put it on top all movies where somebody else may be able to identify a gun I could not, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 13:19, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

== Infoboxes. ==

I am interested in trying to get the [[Template:Infobox Movie|Movie Infobox]] more widely used on the site. I think that ''if it is done well'' it could be very useful on the pages. One of the best features of wikipedia (IMHO) is the infoboxes which give you the basic information at a glace without needing to search the page. I would love some input from people, particularly the admins, regarding how best to make these infoboxes better. I want to make sure that the information they list is useful and valid, not just text filler and puff. Post your thoughts! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:51, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

== The idea to change the page ==

The idea to change the page. An example of the new page. The rest of the site will have a basic table.

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>MP40 Gallery</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=450px perrow=2>
Image:MP40.jpg|MP40 - 9x19mm
Image:MP40Side.jpg|MP40 submachine gun - 9x19mm
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=== Specifications ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-
<div style="text-align=center">
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Category'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="650"|'''Data'''
|-
|'''Place of origin || Nazi Germany
|-
|'''Production''' || 1940 - 1944
|-
|'''Manufacturer''' || [[Erma Werke]]
|-
|'''Caliber''' || 9mm
|-
|'''Cartridge''' || 9x19mm Parabellum
|-
|'''Weight''' || 4 kg (8.82 lb)
|-
|'''Length''' || 833 mm (32.8 in) stock extended / 630 mm (24.8 in) stock folded
|-
|'''Barrel length''' || 251 mm (9.9 in)
|-
|'''Rate of fire''' || 500 rounds/min
|-
|'''Effective range''' || 70 m
|-
|'''Feed system''' || 32-round detachable box magazine / 64-round with dual magazines
|}

Do you like someone, such a proposal? It should be applied to each side of the gun?--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 14:51, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

This is an example of the new layout. It is more clear and transparent. You can change the way every weapon in the service. >>[[MG81]]<< How do you like it? --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 16:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:This new format has not been approved and please change your entry in the [[MG81]] into the correct format already established. Please place your suggestion for a change in the [[Talk:MG81|MG81 Discussion]] page. Unfortunately this table is too big and would make the gun pages too cluttered. We also have many different pictures of guns that don't have both sides photographed. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 19:06, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== New idea to help identify guns ==

So a while ago I started the Manufacturer pages as a way to help identify guns. I had another idea that I wanted to try on for size with people. Recently, I was working on [[CSI: Miami - Season 9]] and came across a submachine gun that I didn't recognize. I immediately went to the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page but was forced to go through every link trying to find the one that I was looking for.

What do you guys think of adding a gallery of some sort to the Category pages that shows the BASIC models of the guns included? When I say basic I mean that we wouldn't need an image of the MAC-10, MAC-11 and Cobray M11/9. Seeing the basic MAC-10 would be enough to direct you to the MAC-10 page where you can figure out whether the gun you are looking at is in fact a MAC-10 or one of the other variants. Similarly, an image of any one of the MP5s would suffice, we wouldn't need images of each of the variants.

If I can get the okay from at least one admin, I would love to try this out on the [[:Category: Submachine Gun]] page and see what you all think. :-)
(Note that I also posted this in the forum).

--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:19, 17 March 2012 (CDT)

:YOU MUST IMPLEMENT THIS ON ALL THE WEAPON CATEGORY PAGES. Sorry about the caps lock, this is just such an awesome idea, and it turned out so well on the submachine gun page. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 18:40, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::HAHAHAHA!!!! I'm glad you liked it. Give a few days, lets get some more reaction but I agree with you, particularly since it doesn't involve creating a new page, its just taking advantage of a page that already exist. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:43, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

Another thing that could reduce the time looking at gun images is the creation of new gun categories, like "Pocket Pistol", "Light Machine Gun", "Civilian Rifle", "IAR" and stuff like this. This could help filter the guns more. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 18:02, 19 March 2012 (CDT)
:I like that idea. Take a look at how I did the [[Sniper Rifles]] page. I split it up by Bolt Action, Semi-Auto and other. I was thinking of doing the same thing when I do the files section with an additional category for Lever action. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:33, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

One thing that I am defiantly going to need help with is making sure that these tables stay updated. If and when new guns are added to the site, we need to make sure that they get added to the appropriate tables. If you guys can help me keep an eye on the "Recently Added Pages" section that would be great! Also, I just finished the [[Shotguns]] section. I wasn't sure what to do about the [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]]s page so for now I just left it out of the gallery. Input is welcome! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:04, 20 March 2012 (CDT)
:Maybe you should add a "Dual-Mode" section to the list and place the SPAS-12, SPAS-15, and Benelli M3 there. (Or list them in both pump and semi sections) And semi-auto and full-auto SGs should be separated. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:18, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

::Don't want to over complicate things by adding more categories than are necessary. I did put the SPAS-12 in both but I didnt realized that the SPAS-15 and Benelli M3 also fit under both sections. As for the Submachine Guns, there aren't many that are semi-auto only so let's keep them all together. Plus, that is not a main identifying feature since many "Semi-Auto Only" guns are converted for a movie. The point is to help identify the guns. The fact that a shotgun is Pump-Action vs Semi-Auto is very obvious during a movie and will help in identifying the gun. Also, with the exception of dual mode shotguns such as the SPAS-12, these guns can't be converted (at least not the same way an armorer can convert a semi-auto gun to full-auto). In other words, you will never see a semi-auto [[Ithaca 37]] but you could see a full-auto [[Steyr SPP]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:00, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

I'm in the process of working on the handguns section. I am going to need a LOT of feedback on this and will warn you ahead of time that it is going to be VERY cluttered when it is first uploaded. I think I am up to 5 categories at the moment: Compact, Standard, Long, Target and Other. I may split the "compact" into Pocket and Compact but we'll see what it looks like when I'm done. I'm just doing the code in notepad for the moment so that I can upload it in one move instead of in drips and drabs. Keep the feedback coming! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:27, 22 March 2012 (CDT)
:Just completed the [[pistols]] page. I would love some help checking it. I'm sure there are AT LEAST a few typos. I'm sure i mislabeled an image or something so any help is welcome! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:21, 22 March 2012 (CDT)

I propose to add a bookmark with additions to the weapons. Accessories such as scopes, grenade launchers, flashlight. This is to be a gallery through which everyone will be able to recognize included in addition to weapons. All containers in one gallery.--[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 05:18, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Guns selected for TV and Movies are not realistic ==

This is a great database and I salute the creators and contributors. But looking through the handguns used in TV and movies, they don't represent what real criminals would be using. In real life we'd see criminals with a lot of Hi-Points; Tauruses; Bersas etc not SIGs;H&K;Kimber;Sphinx;Walther and other expensive handguns. I don't know who is making the selection of handguns for TV and movies but I laugh every time I see a two bit hood in a show who is holding a pricey pistol when in real life he'd probably be carrying some cheap gun with no serial number so he can later ditch it or sell it. Whether it's the prop master or director or producer or if there are kick backs in some way I don't know but it would be nice to see mainly police procedurals use guns that real perps would use.

Again this is not a criticism of the database, you just report what firearms appeared in a series or film. Keep up the good work ![[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Actually, it's been determined that criminals prefer to use the best guns they can get their hands on (usually illegally). This means that while a criminal could go buy some Raven Arms piece of shit, they'll probably just break into somebody's home, look for a gun safe, and hope they get lucky with what's inside. Besides, if you're going to commit a crime with a gun, why buy one and get your name in the system at all? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 04:37, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

Last data I saw was most illegal weapons were not acquired by theft but on the black market, originally purchased through straw purchases. Forensics labs see all types of guns that are used in crimes, not just top of the line ones. Guns used in crimes often disappear, I don't see most criminals carrying expensive ones that will disappear or get resold after a crime. I'm just pointing out that the handguns in TV and movies are beautiful but if the producers are aiming for realism the weapons don't match the streets.[[User:Passinby|Passinby]] 12:32, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:I read an ATF report from a few years ago that stated that the most common pistols used in illegal activity were S&W revolvers and automatics, Ruger automatics, and cheap things like Raven Arms, Lorcin and Bryco automatics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:02, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== P226 Beavertail ==

I am attempting to ID a pistol that is used in multiple seasons of [[CSI: Miami]] ([[CSI:_Miami_-_Season_6#Unknown_SIG-Sauer|Shown Here]]). It seems that it might be a discontinued variant of a [[SIG-Sauer P226]] known as a "P226 Beavertail". Has anyone heard of such a gun? Better yet, anyone have a picture of such a gun?? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:54, 7 April 2012 (CDT)
:I already posted this on the talk page for CSI Miami, but I might as well post it here too. The picture on SIG's website under the P220 Beavertail is actually a P226 Beavertail, evidenced by the double stack bulges and P226 written on the grips and slide.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:10, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

==Need some help==

I changed the skin for IMFDB to a different skin... and only afterwards realized the there was no way to change it back. Also, the majority of the links and buttons normally present (including discussion page links) are gone. I can't even access my user account to change it back. Can anybody help me out (such as by providing me with a link to the preferences page so I can change the skin back)? [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 01:43, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

==Charles Askins Jr. "Unrepentant Sinner"==

'''I'm sure that several of you know who Charles Askins was. He was controversial and he still is thirteen years after his death. Here is something I found that Massad Ayoob wrote about Askins in 1999. Of course Ayoob is controversial in his own right.'''

''American Handgunner, Nov-Dec, 1999 by Massad Ayoob

The death of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. last year closed a hell-for-leather life that lasted nine decades. He was a national pistol champion, one of the first winners of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award and a big game hunter with an impressive collection of trophies from all over the world. He aggressively sought out maximum action in his careers, first as a lawman and then as a soldier.

He was also a stone cold killer. For those of us who knew him, there was just no gentler way to put it.

Charlie's contemporary, Bill Jordan, once said that killing your first man is the hardest and after that it gets easier, but for a certain kind of man, it can get too easy. Some thought old Bill was talking about Charlie. Not without reason did Askins title his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner.Any future history of 20th century gunfighters will have to devote a substantial chapter to Cal. Askins. The son of a prominent hunter and gunwriter, Junior followed in Senior's footprints and left some marks deeper than his dad.

Charles Askins, Jr. killed dozens of men, both in war and on the streets. When asked for an official body count, the Colonel replied, "Twenty-seven, not counting [blacks] and Mexicans."

Askins was bright, thoughtful and without fear, but he had a darker side. The man's prejudices spoke for themselves. Charlie once confessed to a friend that he thought he was a psychopathic killer, and that he hunted animals so avidly because he wasn't allowed to hunt men anymore.He was sometimes too willing to kill. A reading of Unrepentant Sinner shows confessions to murder and manslaughter. Yet among the many Askins gunfights, there were also acts of heroism, shootouts against the odds that he won with his coolness under fire and his deadly marksmanship.

He spent a lot of his life teaching assorted Good Guys to win firefights, and when the Final Ledger is tallied, one hopes that is taken into account on the credit side.

Askins learned early that a rifle or shotgun always beats a sidearm when trouble is in the offing. His favorites included the lever action Savage Model 99 in caliber .250/3000. For close work, he was partial to the Remington Model 11, a clone of the Browning 12 gauge Automatic-5, with an extended magazine. Night sights not yet being available, he tied a white bandage around the muzzle to index the weapon in the dark.

Askins put the speed of fire to good use. He wrote of one shootout in east El Paso, where he employed a Winchester .351 semiautomatic carbine:

"One night at the foot of Piedras Street, which runs slapbang into Cordoba Island, a team of Patrol officers watched a gang of smugglers scramble out of the willows in the river bottom and pile their load of liquor into an old Hudson sedan.

"Then the cargadores turned and raced nimbly for the protection of the Mex side of the line. Three cholos piled into the old car and commenced to drive away. The BP vehicle pulled up beside the runner's vehicle and with guns drawn, we motioned the driver to halt."The Hudson came to a stop just as I set foot on the ground. The officer who was in the rear seat also alighted. The driver of the gov't vehicle threw the door open on the left side and hit the ground. He stepped down just as a gunman sitting beside the driver of the old Hudson swung a Model 94 carbine behind the driver's head and let go at the Patrol officer in front.

"He was struck in the head by the .38/55 bullet and fell dead. The bullet broke up in his skull and a major fragment exited and by a strange coincidence struck the patrolman alighting from the back seat in the head. It did not kill him, but knocked him unconscious.

"Thus in the space of two heartbeats and with only a single round, the contrabandista had knocked out two patrolmen and had only myself to contend with.

"I ran round behind the smuggler's car and opened fire. I shot the gunman through the eye, the bullet exiting through his temple. I kept right on firing and shot the driver through the kidneys. He later died. A third smuggler in the back seat cautiously poked a sixshooter up over the back seat and got shot through the hand for his pains.

"By this time I was busy reloading. The gunman, despite the fact that he had a bullet through his right eye which had passed out through his temple, managed to pull the driver from beneath the wheel and with him out of the way, got in the driver's seat and drove the old sedan for a couple of blocks down the street where he crashed it into a tree.

"The Border Patrol in those days, as I have said, had no radio communication. I cranked up the old patrol car, after loading the dead and wounded, and got to a telephone and called Patrol headquarters. Before the night was done the trio, the dead and wounded, were all rounded up. It had been a big evening. I did not feel much regrets over the loss of the patrolman. I had never liked him much anyway. The second lad, who had picked up a jacket fragment, was not seriously hurt."

On another night, Askins used the Remington autoloading shotgun, loaded with the 00 buckshot he called "blue whistlers." He recounted:

"They came out of the shadows and, as it was brightest moonlight, I could see every manjack had a long gun in his hands. We let them get up to within nine paces of us and I fired the first shot.

"I had the old Remington with its 9shot magazine and I knocked down the first two rannies in as many shots. I then switched my attention to the other three who did not like the heat. They ran back into Mexico, a distance of about 60 yards and opened fire.

"An interesting facet of this little exchange was that the lobo in the lead had an old Smith & Wesson .44 Russian. Despite the fact that he had a load of my 00 buckshot through his middle and one of the boys had hit him spang on the breastbone with a .351 slug, he dropped to his knees behind a cottonwood sapling and kept right on shooting.

"The .44 Russian is a single-action and this bravo had to thumb the hammer back for each shot. He got off three rounds before a second charge of my buckshot ended his career,

"Quite as interesting, really, was the second gunman who had a Westley Richards 10 gauge loaded with Winchester High Speed #5 shot. We had killed him before he could touch off either barrel. A most happy circumstance since the distance between both parties was only nine steps. I have the Westley Richards today, a memento of lively times long past."

Today, Johnnie Cochran would be hired by the families of the deceased to sue Charlie and the whole Border Patrol for opening fire on the heavily armed gang without warning. Yet doing as they did undoubtedly saved multiple Patrolmen from being killed or maimed. As the saying goes, "Things were different then."

Weapon retention is the art and science of retaining control of your firearm when a criminal tries to disarm you and turn your firearm against you. Plan A is to execute a technique and peel the offender off the gun. If that can't be achieved, Plan B is to shoot him.

There wasn't much in the way of gun retention techniques in Charlie's time, and Plan B was his Plan A. He made it work more than once. He recounted the following in our American Handgunner Annual in 1988:

"I got to my feet and made a run at this coyote and just as I reached him, I tripped and fell down. This bastardo, as quick as a cat , grabbed my gun, which I had drawn, and standing over me commenced to tussle enthusiastically to get it away.

"I had no illusions as to what he'd do if he succeeded. He had thoughtfully wrapped his hands around the cylinder and while I had my finger on the trigger I could not fire the weapon because he would not permit the cylinder to turn.

"Very energetically I rolled up on my shoulders and kicked this sonofabitch in the belly. It broke him loose from my pistol. He wasted no time. He ran for the river which was only 30 steps away. I saw him very clearly against all the lights of Juarez and I let him run until he was in the Old Rio Grande up to his knees.

"I held the gold bead front sight in the white-outlined rear notch and put the gold right in his back just at the belt line. On the shot he pitched forward as though spanked with a baseball bat.

"Three days later the BP Chief told me, 'They dragged a dead Mex out of the river of the Socorro Headgates yesterday. The U.S. Consul in Juarez told me.' I didn't say anything. I wasn't any too proud of the fact that I had stumbled and the wetback had almost killed me with my own gun. (A customized Colt New Service .44-40.)"

The colonel continued, in the same issue of the magazine:

"One chill evening, it was January 1931, we jumped out a big gang of smugglers in the Standpipes district. We halted them on the levee and I ran up to the bunch and some bravo reached out and caught the old Remington by the muzzle and gave it a hell of a jerk. He aimed to catch me by surprise and get my gun, which you may be sure he'd have reversed in a twinkling and given me a dose of those big 00 pellets.

"He jerked on the muzzle and I jerked on the forestock and the pistol grip. As I gave the gun a hell of a tug, I pulled the trigger. The charge of buckshot got this coyote right through the left eye. The force lifted him completely off his feet and pitched him some four to five feet off the levee. The back of his head was quite a mess.

"I reckon I was just too impetuous in those days, for it wasn't three months later until we ran up on another gang of freebooters, this time near the Nichols Packing Plant. I got too close to the leader and he grabbed my gun muzzle and tried to whip it out of my hands. He jerked in his direction and I jerked in mine-- and I pulled the trigger.

"The nine big slugs took him right above the knee. The City-County Hospital took his leg off the next morning. The worthless scoundrel had syphilis and the last I heard the amputation would not heal. I reckon it sorta put an end to his river hopping."

Charlie's actions in the two shotgun grabs would almost certainly be ruled justifiable even today. The shooting of the fleeing man who had grabbed his Colt revolver unsuccessfully, however, would probably be seen as excessive force in light of the Supreme Court's mid-'80s Garner decision.

Askins had no patience with suspects who grabbed police guns. One of his partners was pistol-whipped almost to death by a hobo who had disarmed him of his Colt 1917 .45 revolver. The patrolman had already sustained multiple skull fractures and brain damage from the clubbed revolver when Askins stopped the assault.

At a distance of 10 paces, he killed the assailant with three shots in the chest, double-action, from his pet .4440 New Service 4" with D.W. King sights, the weapon the previously mentioned suspect tried to take from him near Juarez.

When he was actively in the field, Askins seems to have almost always fired the sidearm one-handed. In his later years he would enthusiastically recommend two-handed positions for defense, but he was not an early advocate of the concept.

It would appear that in most of his shootings, Askins aimed rather than pointed. He practiced a good deal, drawing and firing from the point-shooter's crouch position, but practiced more with a sight picture at arm's length for the matches.

He wrote that during one 10 year period, he logged 334,000 practice shots. Though in some articles late in his career he had good things to say about point-shooting, I can find mention of only two such incidents in his personal reminiscences of gunfights.

One was a mistaken identity shooting in which he exchanged shots in an alley with a rifle-armed U.S. Customs agent. The distance was 10 yards. The man with the rifle fired twice and missed both times. Askins also fired twice; one shot missed, and one struck the other man's rifle stock.

He point-fired because he had to: his gun that night was a Colt New Service .45 sixgun, its barrel chopped to two inches with no front sight.

He would write later, "To say that I took a ribbing was an understatement compared to the comments over firing two shots at another feller at 30 feet, down a narrow alley, and missing him. It was a disgrace which took a long time to live down!"

Charlie later mentioned that he had point-shot without a specific sight picture when he shot the man who was pistol-whipping his brother officer. Reading Askins' own account, he seems mildly surprised that he hit him shooting like that.

He wrote, "Each time one of the big flat-nosed 240 grain slugs hit him, it brought forth a little puff of dust. This 'bo had been riding the freight for several days and his clothing was full of dust. I cannot begin to tell you how happy it made me to see those bullets raise that dust! I knew I had him. It made my day, believe me!"

A southpaw, Askins liked ambidextrous autoloaders and lever actions for long guns-- the Savage Model 99, the .351 Winchester and the 12 ga. Remington. The latter, he said, was cut to 22 barrel length for him by J. D. Buchanan, who also affixed a full length extended magazine that held eight shells, bringing total capacity to nine rounds.

For a time when it first came out, Askins carried a 4" Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum in a Berns-Martin breakfront holster, although I can find no mention in his work of him ever using it in a gun-fight. Virtually all his shootings with handguns found him using one or another Colt; not until the very end of his man-killing days would he shoot a human with a Smith & Wesson.

Askins began his law-enforcement career as a forest ranger, using a stock GI 1911 .45 auto swapped from his lifelong best friend George Parker. "It was stamped 'U.S. Property' and had been purloined from the ordnance stores at Fort Huachucha," Charlie later admitted. He wore it in a Sam Myres holster. This was also his first sidearm when he joined the Border Patrol, but he quickly switched to a Colt New Service .44-40 with 4" barrel.

The large-frame Colt double-action was always an Askins favorite. The sawed-off snubnose version he had acquired for plainclothes wear quickly fell out of his favor when, sans sights, he fortunately missed the two shots he fired in the mistaken identity incident.

The same big gun in its long-barreled .38 Special target format, the Shooting Master, was Askins' choice in the centerfire class of bullseye pistol, the discipline in which he captured 534 medals, 117 trophies and the National Championship of the United States. When he became chief firearms instructor for the Border Patrol, he again showed his preference, though his choice of caliber was surprising. He wrote:

"As the Great Depression eased some-what, the Border Patrol at my insistence purchased new revolvers for the entire service. I had small love for the Smith & Wesson, a dislike which I share to this day, and so I elected the Colt New Service in .38 Spl. caliber. The revolver had a 4" barrel, fixed sight and a square butt.

"There were 642 revolvers purchased, at a cost to the U.S. Gov't of $19 each. I had the entire shipment sent to me in El Paso. I shot each revolver and sighted it in. The sights were all the fixed type, the front sight was a great upstanding chunk of metal and the rear sight was a rectangular notch cut into the top strap. I made a tool to bend the front sight either right or left to bring the gun to zero, I filed down the front sight if the gun shot low and filled (sic) the rear notch if it shot high."

In the .22 events, Askins shot a Colt Woodsman auto with a lead weight under the barrel. In the .45 category, his choice was a Colt Government tuned by the same "Buck" Buchanan who had tuned his shotgun and was now working for the legendary Frank Pachmayr.

In the national individual championship, an externally-stocked GI .45 was required, and Askins used one that Buchanan and Pachmayr had internally accurized and fitted with a 4 lb. trigger.

This was one of the guns he took with him to the European Theater in World War II. He swapped between it and his personal New Service .38, that one fitted with a King sight rib and a cutaway trigger guard. He shot men with both guns.

He used 230 gr. ball in the .45 and Winchester's slow 200 gr. Super Police roundnose lead in the .38. Askins believed that an accurate handgun with a smooth action, sighted to point-of-aim, point-of-impact, made the most sense as a defensive sidearm.

Based on his autobiography, the last man he killed was in 1957. Charlie was a U.S. military advisor in Vietnam. While hunting in the jungle one day, he ran across a Viet Minh soldier. Askins was carrying a Savage .358 lever action rifle (with which he had blown away a couple of other Viet Minh who interrupted his hunting on another occasion) but chose to draw his new Smith & Wesson Model 29 and fire it left hand only.

"I let the ambusher have the first 240 gr. slug right through the ribs on the left side. It was probably the first man ever killed with the .44 because it was quite new in those days," Askins observed casually. He finished the man with a second shot to the throat.

In his later life- I got to know him in the early 1970s--he told me he generally carried one or another single-action .45 auto. At one time Charlie was quite partial to the small, lightweight Star PD.

I knew Charlie Askins as a man who was fun to drink with, but a man you wouldn't want to get drunk with. He was an adoring husband and father, a lover of horses and a sucker for stray dogs. When his many fans wrote him, he answered them promptly and (usually) politely. Perhaps it was a natural compensation for the part of him that went beyond survival euphoria in the pleasure he took after killing a man.

I've heard people comment, "Whatever else you say about Askins, he sure didn't suffer from that 'post shooting trauma stuff." I beg to differ.

One of the virtually inescapable things in the aftermath of killing is what Dr. Walter Gorski defined as "Mark of Cain" syndrome. This is the sense that having killed people has changed the way that others look at you, and the way you look at yourself.There is no doubt that this was true of Charles Askins. The men he had killed, and the gunfights he survived, defined him in a very real way. Not just to others, but to himself. You didn't have to know him and talk to him to see it. It was inescapably visible in the body of his written work.

There were facets of Charlie that I wouldn't want in a cop. There was racism. There was a killer instinct, too strong, strong enough to sometimes slip its leash. Some of his shootings, if they'd been adjudicated, could have earned him "life without parole."
Yet Charlie was also the man who first organized firearms training in the Border Patrol, laying a foundation that sees that agency today as one of the world's leaders in law enforcement gunfight survival.
His tenacity, his courage, his coolness and above all his skill at arms are qualities we can all strive to emulate, though few of us will manifest them to the degree that he did.
Let that be the legacy of Col. Charles Askins, Jr. May he rest in peace.''

==A somewhat different perspective on Askins==

July 2008 issue of ''Tactical Weapons'' by Cameron Hopkins

Col. Charles Askins

The fact that Askins named his autobiography Unrepentant Sinner pretty much says it all. When his lifelong best friend, George Parker, was dying of cancer, Askins handed him a .45 auto. Parker shot himself, allowing Askins to brag that he helped his friend “do the manly thing.”

While most of his kills were racked up during his days with the Border Patrol along the Rio Grand River in his native Texas, Col. Askins added to his tally in World War II when he served as a battlefield recovery officer.

Askins rode the river for the U.S. Border Patrol in the lawless “gangster era” of the 1920s and ’30s. His numerous gunfights with contrabandistas and other criminals of the El Paso region are vividly detailed in his autobiography.

The son of Maj. Charles Askins, a noted gunwriter of the day, Charley Junior was born to guns. His old man was perhaps one of the best shotgun shooters of his day, a gifted wingshooter and an avid upland bird hunter. Charley inherited his Old Man’s mantle as a storyteller par excellence, but there was a darker side to Junior’s sagas.

Askins was one of the first recipients of the Outstanding American Handgunner Award. He was a national champion pistol shot. He won the centerfire event with what would be contested as an illegal pistol, but in typical Askins fashion, immediately after firing the winning score he resigned from the Border Patrol Pistol Team so he could go out a champion.

Knowing guns as well as he did, Askins was keenly cognizant of the handling characteristics of the best fighting guns of his time, as well as the terminal ballistics of their cartridges. He fully appreciated the firepower of self-loading weapons and favored a Remington Model 11 self-loading 12 ga., a clone of the Browning Auto-5.

Askins’ war stories were full of details on the guns he favored for combat. He was a master storyteller and his vivid descriptions of gunning down armed and unarmed criminals alike made for riveting reading in the days before political correctness made such confessions impossible.

All’s Fair In War
Always a gamesman when it came to winning at any cost, Askins cheated in gunfights as well as pistol competitions. Once, during World War II when the Allies were set to cross the Rhine into Germany, his unit was stymied on one side of the river while a bedraggled remnant of the Nazi army was facing them, dug in on the German side of the river.

As stalemates tend to go, both sides grew complacent. Askins noticed that every morning at a particular time, a fat German sergeant made his way to a particular bush near the river and squatted for his morning constitutional. This gave Askins an idea.

He found a suitable two-story house with a clear line of sight on the bush and set up a sofa and table in a second story window. He borrowed a range finder from an artillery battery and ranged the bush from the window, a bit over 800 yards. He then found a Garand that was reputed to be more accurate than most and commandeered a Jeep to drive himself to the rear. There, he set up a target using the range finder at the exact distance as the bush was from his house. He zeroed the Garand to be dead-on at that distance.
The next morning, Askins and his Garand were sandbagged when the “fat Kraut” made his way to his usual bush. Once he settled down to his business, Askins centered him on his front sight and squeezed the trigger. Killing doesn’t get any more cold-blooded than that, even if it was done under the color of war in a “legitimate” sense.

Years later, in the late ‘50s, Askins hired himself to Vietnam as a military advisor to the South Vietnamese. Askins had one of the then-new Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum revolvers and was determined to kill the first man with the big magnum.

His opportunity came when he was out on patrol with a few South Vietnamese soldiers, set to ambush some communist infiltrators. Askins gave the word that no one was to fire until he did and he waited patiently until the small column of men had passed. At the right moment, he stepped out into the trail and shot the last man in line. Askins was delighted by the huge revolver’s performance, lifting the body off his feet. He was equally pleased to proclaim that he was the first to kill a man with a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum.

Combat Training
Focusing on what works in a gunfight, Askins learned to tie a white handkerchief on the muzzle of his shotgun to better see it at night. To better train for moving targets, Askins rigged up a target stand on two clothes lines and had a youngster run back and forth, tugging the target so he could fire. He practiced shooting from awkward positions, on horseback and on the ground, all to better simulate the realities of gunfighting.

Askins was one of the first to pioneer the concept of training the way we fight, with man-shaped targets and rapid fire drills instead of bullseyes and slow fire. Today we accept “reality based” training as just obvious, but in Askins’ day, firearms training was based on bullseye-shooting techniques.

== IMDB Links ==

First of all, please forgive me if this was previously discussed and decided against, but what do people think of adding a link to the IMDB page for Actors? So for example of the [[Bruce Willis]] page there would be a link to [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/ Bruce Willis (IMDB)]. Any thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:27, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

:I've done that before. See [[Ken Takakura]] and [[Monte Walsh (2002)]]. There is nothing in the rules that says you can't do that and I like links to more in-depth sites. Actually you're the first person who has even brought it up as far as I know. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:24, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

::I don't think anyone has brought that up, but that's a really good idea! I'm suprised someone hasn't thought of it sooner.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:35, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

== Spoilers ==

I have created a new template to indicate spoilers. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#Unless_it.27s_is_absolutely_necessary.2C_no_Spoilers|Rules, Standards & Principles]], spoilers should be avoided at all cost! Sometimes, however, they are unavoidable. When that is the case, it is good practice to warn readers before they start reading the page. The template is super easy to use. Check it out! ([[Template:Spoiler|Spoiler Template]]). I will state again so that it is super clear, '''SPOILERS SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COST!''' The use of this template '''DOES NOT''' mean that it is okay to include major spoilers just because you warned the reader. The template simply helps warn the reader of '''UNAVOIDABLE''' spoilers. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:21, 25 April 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

I have created another new template ([[Template:Ongoing]]). This is for use for TV shows that are currently on the air. So for example [[CSI: NY - Season 8]] or [[Top Shot - Season 4]]. It is way of saying "this page is continuously being updated and may not be current" and differentiates from the [[template:WorkInProgress|WorkInProgress Template]] which should be used for pages that someone is working on at this very moment to improve. I have added a picture to the template that is certainly subject to change BUT anyone changes it, lets come to a consensus on what the new image should be. I started a discussion thread about it [[Template_talk:Ongoing|HERE]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:38, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== What if only an image of a gun but not the gun itself appears in the movie? ==

I have a question: if an image of some gun is shown in the movie (as photo, drawing or a fragment of some other movie) but the gun itself never appeared, will it be correct to put this gun on the movie page? For example, on the following screenshot from ''[[For a Cop's Hide (Pour la peau d'un flic)|For a Cop's Hide]]'' we see a poster with four revolvers.
[[Image:Pour la peau Police revolver-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Is that enough to put these revolvers (they are supposed to be early S&W models) on the movie page?
- [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 13:14, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:No. Its not. The gun itself should appear (IMHO). Particularly when its hard to tell what the guns are. It would be one thing if it was clear EXACTLY what model of gun it was but there is no way to tell from these pictures. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:08, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::I agree, but no one seems to have objected [[NCIS:_The_Video_Game#M1911_Variants|in the past]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:12, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well that is a video game, not a film. But still, '''''I''''' don't think it should be included. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
::::I think as a general rule they should be included. The purpose of the site is so that when someone sees something in a show or movie they can come here to find out what it is, on matter what format it appears in. As long as it is identifiable as a specific gun I say include it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:39, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::SORRY [[User:Commando552|commando552]] I have railed against this like a maniac for years. Just a PICTURE of a gun that is incidental in a scene DOES NOT QUALIFY and does not have to be included. It is ridiculous and also, people who have seen it have laughed at it. So no. I don't want IMFDB to become a laughing stock, thank you very much :) We've been accused of having Asperger's Syndrome in media before. This would cement that stereotype. :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::Maybe such items (pictures, stock footage etc.) are qualified for Trivia section? Or they must not appear at all? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 00:47, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::::I'd have to disagree there; if the picture is an identifiable weapon rather than just a generic Elmer Fudd drawing, people might want to know what type of weapon it is. The internet accuses anyone who knows anything about anything of having Asperger's sooner or later, you just have to roll with it. Besides, we have pages for media that consist entirely of drawings. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:59, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::And I disagree with you :D People push the envelope all the time. If it's OBVIOUS and "In your face" in the shot, then perhaps. See this example that I put in [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AC-POPE-AKa.jpg]] because it was front and center of the screen. You couldn't help but notice it. But casual posters or graphics on distant walls? No. NO one will wonder about a fleeting glimpse of a gun safety poster in the back wall of a police station. And I'm a bit surprised at you. ;) Equating this sort of appearance with Anime is not really honest. LOL. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::Well, like I said below you should be reasonable about it, but if someone might concievably ''want'' to know what type of gun is visible in a shot, we should tell them. Obviously if it's something so small that only someone looking very carefully at a still frame would notice it at all that's different, but I find these kinds of incidental shots just show the uploader has done a complete job. I guess it applies more in videogames where you can often be as close to or as far away from the poster as you like, but I always thought a good guideline was not to worry about ''how'' a weapon appears in something as long as it does. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:15, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::::::But here is a classic case. You can't get any closer to the poster to positively identify WHAT the guns are. I think they are H&R revolvers, since I have two which look just like they do. But if WE (as in IMFDB) can't positively identify them with reasonable certainty (and in this case we cannot), then we aren't offering any sort of service at all, are we? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::::::::::Yeah...It's troublesome because they're clearly ''there'' in that shot but it would look weird having an entry purely to say we don't know what they are. I think I'd agree with you that this one shouldn't be included, I was just speaking in more general terms (and as usual as someone who mostly does game pages where a poster might be a photograph and therefore more real than the weapons that are actually ''in'' the game :D). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 29 May 2012 (CDT)
::::As for what these are, they look more like [[Colt New Line 38 Caliber Revolver]]s than early S&Ws to me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:48, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:::::[[File:Colt New Line 38.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:I think what matters is if you can ID it positively, not how or where it appears. The acid test is if people will say "what gun is that?" and people will still say "what gun is on that poster?" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:25, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Another New Template ==

So I have another new template to report! This one ([[Template:Convert|Convert]]) is a unit converter. It allows you to input specs for a gun without having to use Google or another form of unit conversion. '''There is NO need to go back and put this on gun pages where both the Metric and "Standard" values are already listed.''' But for new pages, or pages that only have 1 of the two values, this template can be used. I welcome any and all feedback! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:43, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

== Yet ANOTHER new template ==

I am just going nuts with these templates. :-) We now have the [[Template:IMDB Actor]] which will allow you to create a link to an actors IMDB page. I welcome feedback on this and all the other templates. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:24, 10 May 2012 (CDT)

== Row span or Not.. ==

Whats the deal with using Row-Span... Personally I think it makes the tables more confusing because the boxes are no longer uniform... Whats the rule here? Should we use them when possible or avoid them? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:22, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== A Category for Biographical Movie ==

I suggest to make a new category "Biographical Movie" for the movies that describe the life of famous persons. This idea came to me when creating a page for ''[[Young Winston]]''. Here are more movies that fit to this category, of course. What do you think about it? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 04:58, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Error ==
When I try to make a new page, I get this
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 4053 bytes) in /home/imfdb/public_html/w/includes/media/Bitmap.php on line 213
What the shit? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 20:56, 28 May 2012 (CDT)
:Must be you. I made a test page here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/To_the_Limit]] though I don't have a ton of info on it, I made it just to test the new page capability. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:47, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== How to list color variations of guns ==

This is a question I have had for a while. Say that a standard pistol as well as a different color variation appear in the same movie/TV show. What is the preferred way to list that? In the past, I have always had one section for both, with a picture of each variation under the same heading (such as [[Human_Target#Walther_P99|here]]). However, I have seen some pages with seperate headings for each ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_1#SIG-Sauer_P226_.28Stainless_Slide.29|here]]), as well as one section with subheadings ([[Burn_Notice_-_Season_3#SIG-Sauer_P226|here]]). So, which is the preferred way to list them?--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 01:51, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

== Unidentified Guns ==

Just a reminder to anyone here who is particularly good at recognizing guns, there is a new category for pages that have Unidentified weapons. [[:Category:Unidentified]]. Check out these pages and help if you can! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:51, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Sterling 22LR pistol in Taxi Driver ==

Was looking at the picture when Travis is shooting his guns at the range, picture shows a Sterling 22LR pistol but it's a Galesi 22LR pistol.
Both pistol are look alike but they do have distinctive grips.

== Wikipedia ==

Hey guys. I am going to attempt to add an entry for IMFDB to Wikipedia. The page was previously deleted because it was poorly done. Is there anyone who would be interested in helping to contribute? Every little bit helps... I want to get a bunch of stuff together BEFORE I add the page so that it doesn't get deleted right away. Anyone interested feel free to post on my talk page! Also, if anyone can find any press attention that the site has received that would be super helpful! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:04, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:If I recall, older incarnations of the page were killed for relevance reasons. I'm not sure if there's anything we can do about that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:23, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::I spoke with the admin who killed it last time (over a year ago). He said that the previous incarnation failed to explain its significance. I think its safe to say the site has grown considerably since then... He also said that if we can demonstrate its significance it would stick around. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:31, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::How are they defining significance? It seems so subjective. What other wikis have made it onto wikipedia? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:42, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
Here is a list: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis List of Wikis] (I just added IMFDB to it). --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:54, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

== Table Text Alignment ==

Is there a particular reason that text hasn't been aligned "centered" in tables?? Seems like it would look much better... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:49, 14 June 2012 (CDT)

== "Bollywood" Category ==

When I went to add the production nationalities for the ''[[Dredd]]'' page I just made I needed to add British and Indian. However, in the Produced/Filmed categories there is only the "Bollywood" category. I sure as hell would not call this a Bollywood film, so what am I meant to use? I think there should be an Indian Produced/Filmed category for films like this, but should it replace the Bollywood one or leave that separate? I know you can't redirect categories if it was decided to replace it, but there are only a dozen or so in the category so would be easy to do it manually. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:49, 21 June 2012 (CDT)
:Agreed. "Bollywood" only addressed a particular aspect of Indian cinema anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:01, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Ammunition list ? ==

I can make a list of ammunition ?
: 1 - What do you mean? Clarify your remarks with more detailed descriptions of what you want to achieve and 2 - SIGN your posts. Anonymous postings tend to carry less weight because they are usually NOOBS that do it. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::How does this help us ID guns in movies? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:24, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I can haz cheeze burger? :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

I have agree with chinaman on this on though how about having it for a category [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 18:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:There are some scenes in movies where the magazines/cylinders are shown with rounds in them. I suppose it might help in those cases, but not much for anything else. While it might be cool, it doesn't help identify firearms in a significant manner. If the mag is shown, you can probably find a (better) shot of the actual gun.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:32, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::In my experience, if you see loose ammunition, it rarely goes with the gun anyway. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 19:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

This, then, do such a site or not?
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 05:05, 25 June 2012 (CDT)
===My Example===
====Pistol/ Revolver Cartridges====
=====Caliber .38, .380, .357, .35 (9 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.357 Magnum.jpg|.357 MAGNUM
File:9x18mm MAKAROV.jpg|9x18mm MAKAROV
File:9x19mm NATO.jpg|9x19mm NATO (PARABELLUM)
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Revolver</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:ColtKingCobra.jpg|[[Colt King Cobra]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtMagnumCarry.357mag.jpg|[[Colt Magnum Carry]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:ColtPython6In.jpg|[[Colt Python]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
File:Taurus617.jpg|[[Taurus Model 617]] - '''.357 MAGNUM'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
=====Caliber .45 (11.45 mm)=====

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Cartridge</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:.45 acp.jpg|.45 ACP
File:.45 colt.jpg|.45 COLT
File:.45 GAP.jpg|.45 GAP
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Pistol</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M1911Colt.jpg|[[M1911A1]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP-45.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45|FNP-45]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:FNP45Tac.jpg|[[FNP#FNP-45_Tactical|FNP-45 Tactical]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:Glock21.jpg|[[Glock_21#Glock_21|Glock 21]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}

{| align="center" style="text-align:center"
!align="center"|<div style=font-size:300%>Submachine Guns</div><br>
|-
|<div style="text-align=center">

<gallery widths=200px heights=120px perrow=4>
File:M3 Grease.jpg|[[M3_/_M3A1_"Grease_Gun"|M3 / M3A1 "Grease Gun"]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:IngramMAC10.jpg|[[MAC-10#MAC-10|MAC-10]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:UMP 45.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP]] - '''.45 ACP'''
File:H&K-USC Rifle.jpg|[[Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP#Heckler_.26_Koch_USC|Heckler & Koch USC]] - '''.45 ACP'''
</gallery></div>
|-
|}
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] 08:12, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==I want to upload images in movie for my page ==
How do i can upload images in movie for my page ? What should i do now ?
Please tell what you know. Thanks !

or you do it for me.
:Or, you do it yourself. Yeah, let's go with that. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:16, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

==Can you...?==

Can you create these pages ? These movies are great movies:

1.Shanghai (2010)

2.The Flowers of War (2011)

3.Halloween II (2009)

4.Friday the 13th (2009)

5.See No Evil (2006)

6.Oba: The Last Samurai (2011)

7.Terror Trap (2010)

8.The Quiet American (2002)

9.What Love May Bring (2010)

10.Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008)

11.Spoils of War (2009)

12.In Tranzit (2008)

13.Max Manus: Man of War (2008)

14.The Keeper (2009)

15.Born to Raise Hell (2010)

Special: Pink Panther (Animated Series) and Old Master Q (Chinese Comics).

== Jack Reacher ==

I'm not sure what the rifle Jack Reacher is seen firing in the trailer. Here's a screenshot. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:18, 7 July 2012 (CDT)
[[File:JackR 102.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]
:Kind of a guess as you barely see it, but I would say it is a SIG P556 SWAT upper on a SG 550 series lower, which has appeared in a few things but most prominently in ''[[Salt]]'':
:[[File:SIG 552 2tone.jpg|thumb|450px|none|]]
:It clearly has a SIG gas block and bayonet lug, but it looks like the front slide slopes backwards (along with the same flip up rear peep sight) and it has a birdcage flash hider. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Collapsible Tables ==

This is an important note to ALL users. We are in the process of testing out a new idea of collapsible tables. For the time being, '''DO NOT''' implement this on any pages! This is a test that the admins are considering using on SOME pages. If you would like to weigh in on the discussion, you should feel free to do so [http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=2005 here in the forum]. But I say again, DO NOT use this on any pages until the admins come to an agreement. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:05, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

== Percussion Pistols? ==

Should we have a page for percussion pistols, like we have a page for [[Flintlock Pistol]]s? They have appeared in stuff but currently there is no place to list them. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:37, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== imfdb on facebook ==

Did you guys notice the fan art logo of imfdb on facebook? I don't know who made it but it looks pretty badass. [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=262195507218912&set=a.109183475853450.11004.109180049187126&type=1&permPage=1] - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:32, 19 July 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Park Boys ==

I've been visiting this site for couple of years now and yet I have not seen a page for neither the movie(s) or the show.
:If you want a page for this, go ahead and make it, don't expect others to do it for you and sign your posts.--[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:38, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::A page did exist, but was deleted for poor quality. Some users [[Talk:Trailer Park Boys|are working on it]]. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:44, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel==
Can someone help me make a page for this? I can fill in the blanks but the framework for the page is hard for me to set up (my HTML sucks), there is plenty of INGAME footage from the Gamescom gameplay trailer as well as their website.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 13:00, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:If you need help with editing, you can copy and paste from existing pages, or refer to the [[Help:Editing|help]] page. On a personal note, I'm a bit reluctant to help create another page for a console-only game that I'm almost certain will remain incomplete for years to come. Getting screenscaps from a console-only game (like AoT:tDC) require extra equipment and expertise that very few users here have, and it'd be unfair to toss this into their lap to finish. But that's just my two cents. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:18, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Ok, this is a standard form, though I do think a console-only game isn't a great thing to start with. Don't copy the nowiki tags or the one br line seperator, obviously:

<nowiki>{{Template:Upcoming}}</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[Image:BoxArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''NAME OF GAME'' (DATE)]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>'''''NAME OF GAME'''''</nowiki> is a (short description of the game)

<nowiki>'''The following weapons are used in the video game ''NAME OF GAME'':'''</nowiki>

<nowiki>=Class of weapons=</nowiki>

<nowiki>==A weapon==</nowiki>

<nowiki>A [[weapon]]</nowiki> is used by men to do things in a level.

<nowiki>[[Image:Gun Image.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The real gun's name - calibre]]</nowiki><br>
<nowiki>[[Image:Screenshot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Description of the screenshot.]]</nowiki>

(repeat)

<nowiki>[[Category:Some Categories]]</nowiki>

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:20, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Thank you for all the help, I still have issues uploading the pictures (I know lots online, I just dont know how to get them in the correct format). Also BTW the game will be multiplatform as well. All I really need to get is the beginning format set up, I can fill the rest (I have tried before but I was having issues with standards. Sorry I can make a basic template and filler, but to make it look nice need help. I am learning how to do HTML just been a while, thanks for all the support, I will use the template above to start the page, there is already box art and plenty of pictures, but all I know how to do is copy the URL and make a hypertext link) --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:38, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
::The official website says PS3 and X360 only, I haven't seen anything about a PC release. The first two games in the series were console-only as well. If you want to practice, there are plenty of incomplete pages available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:46, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:Uploading an image is done with the "Upload file" or "upload multiple files" options in the sidebar on the left; images must be in .jpg or .jpeg format or they won't upload. The format for an image is <nowiki>[[Image:NAME.jpg|thumb|ALIGNMENT|SIZEpx|CAPTION]]</nowiki>. The name of the image appears at the top of its page or the tail-end of the URL can be used; for example, this image:

:http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:636542_237822_front.jpg

:You copy everything after "file" at the top of the screen.

:<nowiki>[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]</nowiki>

:becomes

:[[Image:636542 237822 front.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This is a caption.]]

:Does that help? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

::Tangentially related to that explanation, is there any reason that you have to do "Image" rather than just use the default "File"? I just copy and paste the whole title in so all my posts use the "File" and it seems to work, or are there ill effects that I'm not aware of? If nothing else it is one letter shorter so should make the page size slightly smaller. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:26, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:::Apparently the prefixes are interchangeable, I just prefer image. I don't think it's worth worrying about, but I do prefer if every image on a page at least uses the same one. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Well your explanation was solid, and I liked the fact that you used all the steps clearly, Ill be working on it soon and let you know. Thanks! --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] 14:50, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== Octopussy ==
Does anybody have any ideas about the unknown guns featured in this movie? Please help identifying them. I'm trying to contact Bapty & Co about it but I haven't had any luck yet.
([[User:Thejoker|Thejoker]] 13:00, 19 August 2012 (CDT))

== Broken front page ==

Hi, does anyone know when the front page will be fixed? Rely on it for informing me what's new on the site.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:26, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
:Don't know when it will be fixed, but you can get all the information that was on there from different places. If you want to find newly made pages you can look at [[Special:NewPages]], and if you want to find recent updates and discussions you can go to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and filter by either "Main" or "Talk". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:30, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
::As stated in the Forum, the "Dynamic Page List" extension is not compatible with the new version of MediaWiki. I encourage you to use Commando's ideas for tracking new pages and seeing whats new on the site. We are leaving the page as is because we have another change coming that will fill that space. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 12:24, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

== talk new updated are they gone ==

will these subjects come back or are they lost forever due to up grade
--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

yay they brought back the old format thank you

== identification colt ==

Which colt uses belmondo in "hold up" ? python or diamondback ?
[http://www.toutlecine.com/images/star/0008/00085238-jean-paul-belmondo.html]
and in "ho!" ?

== Calling all Wiki-Experts ==

On this wiki we have a TON of knowledgeable gun fanatics. They range from the casual gamer to the Weapon Armorer and everything in between. What we are lacking, however, is people who are proficient in wiki-markup. Anyone out there who considers themselves to be be proficient with wiki-markup, please respond to this post or drop me a message on my talk page. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 13:20, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

==Borderlands 2==
I know that Borderlands 2 is a fictional universe and thus may be under scrutiny about making a page, but there are both weapons that are modeled (even named) after real guns. On top of that the weapon icons which describe the type of weapon (handgun, shotgun ect) use real life weapons to indicate them. For example the handgun looks like a [[Jericho]], the shotgun a [[Remington 870]], SMG [[MP5K]], Assault Rifle [[M16]]. That would be great. Would be hilarious if someone on the discussion page of it at least wanted to post all of their weapons they have found, but it would probably crash the internet ;) Thanks for the help. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 12:57, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

== Magnum PI and his 9mm Colt ==

Why was it that only 9mm blanks were available during all seasons of Magnum PI? Could they not have hired the right people to make 45 cal blanks? Or imported them from the mainland?
:At the time .45 blanks were notoriously unreliable, a lot of 1911 guns at the time used 9mm versions for firing scenes due to the 9mm being a much more reliable round. It's only really been in recent years that .45 blanks have become more reliable. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 19:54, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

Interesting. Who would have guessed? :) --[[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 16:22, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

== First article ''Hennessy'' (1975 IRA film) - feedback? ==

Hi, I just wrote my first IMFDB article (I know wiki code from other sites before this): [[ Hennessy ]], a movie about a man whose family is killed by British troops in Belfast, driving him to seek revenge against the British government. Could some people look over my new article and say if it works so far? Thanks for any ideas on how to improve it or things to do better next time? Thanks! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 12:04, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

::Looks good to me. I added a couple more categories and the name of the movie to the movie poster along with the year that it was produced. Good work linking the actors and firearms to the movie. Many newer members forget to do that. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 03:35, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

:::Thanks for the help! I've added another film, 1959's ''[[Inside the Mafia]]'', mostly because it has the FedLabs 37mm gas-guns at the end, and those are awesome. [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 21:32, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

== Help ID revo in [[ Blue Lamp, The ]] (UK, 1950)? ==

Not many guns in this film, but there is one revo in the intro, and another pair later that are seen pretty clearly. Anyone decent with revo ID if the image is quite clear? I'm pretty sure it's a S&W, and it looks quite large so I almost thought it's some kind of M1917 in .455, or a Hand Ejector or something. Any second opinions? Also when I turn up the contrast, I believe the "cosh" used may be a length of pipe due to seeing a bit of a suggestion of a circle/tube in the image. Thanks for any input! [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 23:39, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
:"Lengths of pipe" do not qualify for inclusion on this site. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 22:19, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== Why does Bond get a 9mm Walther PPK? ==

Why is it that Bond's PPK (in his recent films...Skyfall) a 9mm and not a .380 acp? They chose to use the 9mm cal blanks back in the 80's for the filming of the Magnum PI TV series because (as some one in this forum informed me 45 caliber blanks were unreliable). Are .380 acp blanks not reliable today? in 2012?? [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:48, 14 November 2012 (EST)
:It is a .380. In the trailer (haven't seen film yet), Q refers to it as "PPK/S nine-millimeter short". 9mm short is another designation for .380 auto. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 18:52, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Good call Kaptain. I thought they just said "9mm" in the trailers for Skyfall and had taken liberties in creating a "bond gun". Forgot they did correctly refer to as a "9mm short" which is what a .380 is...a "9mm Kurz". [[User:BDD8|BDD8]] ([[User talk:BDD8|talk]]) 18:59, 14 November 2012 (EST)

== Spoilers? ==

Just a simple question asking how do spoilers work on these wiki's as i've seen the Max Payne 3 page it contains a lot of spoilers and i think this is just wrong, Please tell me do we have to mark them as spoilers or does this website allows Spoilers?
--[[User:Faizanali|Faizanali]] ([[User talk:Faizanali|talk]]) 03:02, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:The bottom line with spoilers is to avoid them at all cost when possible. With a video game page, this is slightly less of a concern than with a Movie page, but still, unless there is no other way to describe when/how the weapon is used, it should be avoided. A common technique to deal with this spoilers is to make them white text and put "Spoiler (highlight to read)" before it. If you have any questions about how to do this, drop me a message. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 10:40, 20 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, avoid them where ''practical'' is probably a better way to phrase it, and it often isn't practical since you have to say when and where the weapon appears. Glancing over the page I can't see what you're talking about regarding containing spoilers, it doesn't really give away anything about the overall plot and things like Max growing a ridiculous beard and going to Brazil can't be considered spoilers since Beard Max is on the back of the box. I'm not a huge fan of the "highlight to read" spoiler method myself, either you have to say something (in which case it should be regular text) or it shouldn't be there at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:54, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::At the end of the day, we're here to document firearms usage by actors, so that comes first. If that has to come at the expense of spoilers, then so be it, but please try to avoid spoilers if at all possible. For example, we can just say that actor X uses a particular weapon, we don't have to specify what he does with it or to whom. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 12:11, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== Forum Registration ==

I wanted to register in the forums, but the registration is disabled. Any idea when registrations will be open again?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] ([[User talk:Gunkatas|talk]]) 17:54, 21 November 2012 (EST)
:Forum registration has been disabled to prevent spam. Please see the [[Forum Request]] page. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 20:00, 21 November 2012 (EST)

== Stingball Grenade ==

Should I make a page about the Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade (AKA: Hornet's Nest)?. The only movie I seen it in is ''[[The Longest Yard (2005)]]''
[[File:http://www.bhigear.com/productimages/bh-cts-95.jpg|thumb|Model 9590 Sting-Ball Grenade]]

Talk:Forum Request

2012-11-26T08:11:16Z

Alkillmatic: /* Account Request */

==Forum account request==
I would like to post in the forums. [[User:LeJerk|LeJerk]]

== Please create me an account ==

I would like to have an account created. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 15:51, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

(this is a sample)

== I would like an account ==

Please create one for me. Thanks. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] ([[User talk:ColonelTomb|talk]]) 18:26, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

== IMFDB Forum Account ==

I would also like an account please, thankyou. --[[User:Bunsen95|Bunsen95]] ([[User talk:Bunsen95|talk]]) 21:25, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

please i would like a account
thanks

==Me too==

I would like to have an account created. Since i am not quite good into wiki structured databases --[[User:3loader|3loader]]

== Please create me an account ==

I would like to discuss some popular action movies, as well as to create some pages about movies and TV-series not listed here yet. It's been half a year since I first visited your site, trying to find out which weapons were used in Assault on Precinct 13 (2005), and since then came to like it a lot. By the way, can you please create pages on the following:
Movies and TV-series:
1. My favorite, The Sword ("Меч"), an 2009 Russian/Ukrainian action TV-series about the group of vigilantes created by former VDV captain Maxim Kalinin. The show is extremely cool and exciting, despite low budget. It's as if Rogue Force were to be filmed as TV-series. I can provide you with the list of almost ALL of weapons used in the series.
2. Pistol Whipped (2008, with Steven Seagal as main hero)
3. Skyscraper (1996)
4. Detention (2003)

Anime:
1. Burst Angel
2. Sunabouzu
3. Great Teacher Onizuka
4. Venus versus Virus
5. Sacred Seven

--[[User:SilverFox|SilverFox]]

== Please start me a Forums account ==

I just finished writing [[ Hennessy ]] and some feedback would be awesome. Please set me up with a Forums account. [[User:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|REPLICAwrittendowntheside]] ([[User talk:REPLICAwrittendowntheside|talk]]) 12:25, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

== Acoount ==

I'd like an account. --[[User:Creed|Creed]] ([[User talk:Creed|talk]]) 18:26, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== Account Creation ==

I would like an account in the forums. Thank you.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] ([[User talk:Gunkatas|talk]]) 16:51, 24 November 2012 (EST)

== Account Request ==

I'd like to join the forum please, I have a discussion of a gun that is not yet on this website. Thank You. [[User:Alkillmatic|Alkillmatic]] ([[User talk:Alkillmatic|talk]]) 03:11, 26 November 2012 (EST)

Talk:Forum Request

2012-11-26T08:10:46Z

Alkillmatic: /* Account Request */ new section

Talk:AMC Auto Mag Pistol

2012-11-26T07:44:29Z

Alkillmatic:

Magazine capacity is 7, not 8.
As a note, with 7 in the mag, the bolt has to be pulled back before inserting the mag, so there is no 7+1 possible.

Fire-mode is semi-automatic, but single action only.

Calibers are:

475 Wildey Mag, 45ACP Mag, 45 Win Mag, 45ACP, 44AMP, 41JMP, 40KMP, 357AMP, 30LMP, 300AMP, 25LMP, 22LMP

AMP = Auto Mag Pistol

JMP = Jurras Magnum Pistol

LMP = Lomont Magnum Pistol

KMP = Kincel Maynard Precision

Missing '180' in the name

General Dynamics GAU-19/A

2012-11-26T07:37:34Z

Alkillmatic:

[[Image:GAU19.jpg|thumb|right|415px|General Dynamics GAU-19/A - .50 BMG. Here pictured with Jet pilot, Helicopter pilot, and infantry soldier's helmets, and belt of .50 BMG ammo.]]
[[Image:Gau 19-2.jpg|thumb|right|500px|GD GAU-19/A with muzzle brake and mount - .50 BMG.]]
Originally designed by General Electrics (GE) as the '''GECAL 50''', this gun was designated by the US military as the '''General Dynamics GAU-19'''. Though otherwise similar to the [[GE M134 Minigun]], the GAU-19/A is an electronically fired, three-barrelled Gatling Gun built to fire the .50 BMG round. The weapon can selectively fire 1,000-2,000RPM while the version mounted on the AM General HMMWV fires at a fixed rate of 1,300RPM.

'''The General Dynamics GAU-19/A has been used in the following films, video games, and anime:'''
===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Doomsday]]'' || || || Mounted on Super Frelon helicopter || 2008
|-
| ''[[Avatar]]'' || || || Appeares as MBS-9M "Hydra"; mounted on SA-2 Samson helicopters || 2009
|-
|}

===Anime===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Akira]]'' || || Mounted on the flying platform || 1987
|-
| ''[[Appleseed]]'' || || Mounted on the patrol helicopters || 1988
|-
| [[Patlabor: The Movie 2]] || || Door-mounted on JGSDF helicopter || 1993
|-
| ''[[Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig|Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. 2nd GIG]]'' || || Part of JGSDA combat suits || 2004-2005
|-
| ''[[Flag]]'' || || Mounted on the mecha || 2006
|-
| ''[[The Skull Man]]'' || American Garo soldiers || || 2007
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories]]'' || || || Portable version || 2006
|-
| ''[[Clive Barker's Jericho]]'' || || || Portable version || 2007
|-
| ''[[Resident Evil 5]]'' || || || Turret machine guns || 2009
|-
| ''[[Uncharted 2: Among Thieves]]'' || || || Mounted on Hind gunships || 2009
|-
| ''[[Army of Two: The 40th Day]]'' || || || Portable || 2010
|-
| ''[[Homefront]]'' || || || Mounted on Humvees and AH-700 helicopters || 2011
|-
| ''[[F.3.A.R.]]'' || || || Part of the E.P.A. - Enhanced Power Armor || 2011
|-
| ''[[Call of Duty: Black Ops 2]]'' || Death Machine || Futuristic Look || Portable || 2012
|-
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Machine Gun]]

Hawk MM1 grenade launcher

2012-11-26T07:26:29Z

Alkillmatic:

[[Image:MM1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|MM1 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
The MM1 revolver grenade launcher is manufactured by the United States based company Hawk Engineering Co and is in use by Special Forces of the same nation, as well as several South American and African countries. While the MM1 may look much like a up-scaled Milkor MGL grenade launcher, the MM-1 most probably traces its ancestry back to the Manville machine projector, a revolver-type 20-shot tear gas gun, developed in the USA for law-enforcement use before the Second World War. The MM1, while being relatively heavy and quite bulky, can provide devastating firepower, with a practical rate of fire of up to 30 rounds per minute.

The MM1 is a revolver-type weapon, with the heavy cylinder being rotated for each shot by the clockwork-type spring. The spring is wound manually during the reloading. To reload the cylinder, the rear part of the gun is released and rotated sideways to expose the rear of the cylinder, which is connected to the front part of the frame and barrel.

==Specifications==
(???? - ????)

* '''Type:''' Grenade launcher

* '''Caliber:''' 40x46mm

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|5.7}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|635}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|000}}

* '''Feed System:''' 12 round drum

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title}}
==Film==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[The Dogs of War]]'' || || || || 1981
|-
|''[[The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension]]''|| [[Bill Henderson]]||Casper Lindsey|| ||1984
|-
|''[[RoboCop]]'' || || Detroit SWAT officer || ||1987
|-
|''[[Ishtar]]'' || [[Dustin Hoffman]] || Chuck Clarke || || 1987
|-
|''[[Bulletproof (1988)|Bulletproof]]'' || [[William Smith]] || Russian Major || || 1988
|-
|''[[Darkman]]'' || [[Larry Drake]] || Robert G. Durant || || 1990
|-
|''[[Terminator 2: Judgement Day]]'' || [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] || The Terminator || || 1991
|-
|''[[Idiocracy]]'' || [[Andrew Wilson]] || Beef Supreme || Red highlights, fires explosive grenades || 2006
|-
|}

== Television ==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[A-Team, The|The A-Team]]'' || [[George Peppard]] || John "Hannibal" Smith || || 1983 - 1987
|-
|}

==Anime==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Hellsing|Hellsing Ultimate]]'' || [[Christopher Walken]] || Reference to ''[[The Dogs of War]]'' || 2006
|-
|}

== Video Games ==

* ''[[Operation Flashpoint]]''

* ''[[Delta Force: Land Warrior]]''

* ''[[Soldier of Fortune II: Double Helix]]''

* ''[[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Combined Assault]]'' (unlockable)

* ''[[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]]''

* ''[[Ghost Recon]]'' (Added in Island Thunder)

* ''[[Parasite Eve 2]]''

* ''[[Call of Duty: Black Ops 2]]'' (SP only)
<br clear=all>
[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Grenade Launcher]]
[[Category:Less-Than Lethal]]