Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:1968: Tunnel Rats (VG)

2013-02-24T07:47:21Z

Alasdair: Created page with "Grammar: I'm sorry, ''shooting'' the hand grenade? There are certain standards of English the wiki expects."

Grammar:

I'm sorry, ''shooting'' the hand grenade? There are certain standards of English the wiki expects.

Talk:Arrow

2012-12-12T06:34:41Z

Alasdair:

Isn't Deadshot just a Batman villain? Why is he in a Green Arrow series?
:He was originally a Batman villain, but since then he has expanded and has appeared all across the DCU. He is probably best known now for the ''Suicide Squad'' and ''Secret Six'' comics, which are stand alone and are not tied to any other comic in particular, just a bunch of villains/anti-heroes doing their own morally ambiguous thing. More of a head-scratcher is the fact that they decided to make Huntress Arrows first love interest. As far as I can remember this has never happened in the comics, and its not like their is a shortage of women that Green Arrow has hooked up with that they could have chosen from. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:20, 11 December 2012 (EST)
Maybe they just didn't read their source material. I'm pretty sure Arrow dates Black Canary.

Talk:Arrow

2012-12-11T18:12:58Z

Alasdair: Created page with "Isn't Deadshot just a Batman villain? Why is he in a Green Arrow series?"

Isn't Deadshot just a Batman villain? Why is he in a Green Arrow series?

User talk:Alasdair

2012-12-11T18:11:53Z

Alasdair:

== Japanese Paratroopers ==
Yes the Japanese had paratroopers in WWII. Here is a link to Wikipedia. should at least satisfy you curiosity. As far as the suppressor goes in ''[[Dirty Harry]]''. I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's just a prop. Something mocked up for the movie for visual effect. Welcome to imfdb.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:43, 27 December 2011 (CST)

Thanks Jcordell. I'm finding it very good for things like research. Also, I can impress my friends and family with gun knowledge thanks to it. Like I was watching Shooter with my dad, and during the opening section, I just randomly said "That's an M40A5 there, Dad." He seemed impressed at first, but now he says it's a little weird. Is 13 too young to be a gun enthusiast? Lots of people keep telling me guns kill. They don't, do they? Surely humans make guns, and humans kill using them. On their own, guns are just lumps of metal, and if used correctly, provide security, peace and pleasure. Come on, back me up here guys. Anyway, I look forward to contributing to IMFDB pages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_marine_paratroopers_of_World_War_II

Oh I wouldn't worry about it. This is a debate that will never end. I'm 43 years old and I've been collecting firearms for almost thirty years. I've run into people who think it's weird and creepy that I have a gun collection and over thirty books about firearms. But I've also run into others who don't find it strange at all. As a police officer I know from first hand experience about the damage guns can do. But the damage is caused by people using those guns. The guns didn't do the damage by themselves. Cars kill people, rocks kill people, heck I was involved with a murder investigation several years ago in which the murder weapon was a bungee strap. I've seen several murders over the past 11 years in which the murder weapons were hammers, knives, a bathtub full of water and a can of gasoline and matches. People will always find ways to kill each other. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:33, 29 December 2011 (CST)

How true. Speaking as a normal citizen, keep up the good work as a cop. If anyone calls you creepy for collecting guns again, hey, why not just ignore their 911 calls? (Joke). Although, why did somebody murder somebody with a bungee strap? I can just assume it was the first thing to hand. As for the people will always find ways to kill, just look at what Robert Downey Jr said 'Peace means having a bigger stick than the other guy', which despite just being put in Iron Man for effect, is completely true. The Roman Empire, Alexander the Great and Atilla the Hun conquered and ruled large empires, and none of them used any guns at all. Although an actor once came to my school, speaking for a charity. Apparently, if we give less than 1% of what is spent on chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, small arms and so on and so on, we can cure world poverty. The request was refused. Come on countries of the world, that's not even 1%! Stop being so stingy-it's world poverty we're talking about here. It's kind of a big deal. Also, if you cure world poverty, way more people will be willing to join the army. Btw, the weirdest murder weapon ever is a toilet tank lid? No? How about a chess board? A corkscrew? A bowling ball? These are all real-life murder weapons. You must wonder what these people are taking. Anyway, thanks for making me feel slightly less embarrased to be a gun addict. And yes, I know embarressed is spelt wrong.

== Don't shut down Heckler & Koch U.K!! ==

Recently, I found out that Heckler & Koch have opened a factory in Britain. I was thrilled, until I found out that there is a 'shut down Heckler & Koch Great Britain.' campaign. This is the website for a protest against the factory being here. Come on! I mean, Britain is currently the worst country for gun lovers. If you're a gun enthusiast, you don't say "Hey, I love guns. All types. Hey, I know! I'll go to Britain! They don't hate guns there." No, you go to America. Americans, if you're reading, I'm in envy of your 'Every citizen has the right to bear arms' rule. I will put my hand on my heart now and say currently, I'd rather be American. Unless these rules are established in the U.K. Which they won't be. And these moaners aren't helping progress this. If you're British (or just don't like this idea, fine, I don't care) please comment here and say what you think. Are they right or wrong? If it's quite good, I'll re-post it on the campaigner's stupid webpage. And yes, I understand that some people may say "Just leave them alone." But if I do, then what will happen? Worst case scenario, another great gun company may die out, and I don't want to let that happen. In this financial climate, it's hard enough. Please comment. This is personal, and it means a lot to me.

I was unaware H&K had a factory in the UK, but I agree, don't shut them down! I think they should stay here as police use a few H&K weapons (armed police in the UK use the MP7A1) so it would be logical to set up shop here, so it saves on shipping them from Germany. And not too mention the fact that it seems cool that Britain has its very own gun factory.

- Fixer

Ta very much, Fixer. I've e-mailed it to them, so hopefully your words will impact upon their tiny, one-sided minds.
Alasdair

== WWII weapon discussion ==

Seeing as it was the last World War we had (and hopefully the last World War we'll ever have...erm, you rock, South Korea! We're sorry Kim-jung-il's dead too, but please don't use those weapons of mass destruction on us...), I have developed a strong interest in WWII weaponry. I hope that this can be a place for IMFDB members to come and talk about the weapons of World War Two (and One, if you want to. I'm not picky.). Have a good day!

== Army ==

Hey Alasdair, how's it going?

A while ago you asked me for advice on becoming a sniper within the Army and I was just wondering if you applied after?

Get back too me soon, mate :)
Cheers,

[[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

Thanks Fixer. It will help for when I decide to sign up a lot. Keep on fighting for Britain! Also, the SA80...unreliable? I mean, all the experts say so, but as a soldier, how many jams or problems have you had? Alasdair.

== Search for women ==

I have a Scottish friend who (despite knowing nothing about guns) reckons that there are no women on this website. Now, despite not encountering any women during my time spent on here, I'm convinced there must be at least one. Not trying to turn this into a dating website or anything, it's just, if you are a woman and a member of this website, or just know a woman who is on here, please leave a message so I can prove my sexist pig of a friend wrong. Ta! Alasdair.

== Technical advice ==

I'm just wondering how to upload images, set up links properly and everything else you need to do to make a page. I have plans to create three pages, but all that's useless if I don't know how to. Much appreciated, Alasdair.
: 1) To upload image, you have to use "Upload file" function that is in the "Toolbox" group in the menu on the left side of the main page. Then in the "Source filename:" put the link to the image on your computer and in the "Summary:" - some info about the screenshot (at least the name of the movie) and "Category:Screenshot" (put it in [[ ]] instead "" to make the image belong to the category).
: 2) In order to format the proper link on the movie page use the next:
: "Image:NAME-OF-THE-IMAGE.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Here are some words about the screenshot - who is here and with which weapon.". Use [[ ]] instead of "" (I have to use "" in this example to make the code visible).
: You may open any existing movie page and look how is is formatted, maybe even copy wiki code from the existing page into the page you are creating and then replace the text and images with your own. Hope this will help you. With best wishes, [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 11:51, 21 April 2012 (CDT)
Thanks, but I really want to know how to actually create the page in the first place. Also, I have a MacBook Pro.

== Assassin's Creed 3 ==

I am a huge Assassin's Creed fan, and am so excited about the upcoming AC3. Set in the Revolutionary War, there'll finally be identifiable guns! But can someone please try and help me identify them? I think I saw a Kentucky Flintlock, and the Brown Bess musket in the hands of the British. Finally, there might be an Assassin's Creed page on imfdb. Alasdair.

== Sherlock Holmes ==
I agree we didn't need an American version of Sherlock Holmes set in the 21st century since the BBC has already done that. Anyway Holmes belongs in London. Not New York City. I'm confident it won't last longer than one season. But I've been wrong before. But please don't get too righteous. I seem to remember a British version of ''The Longest Yard'' called ''Mean Machine'' (2002) starring Vinnie Jones and I've come across other movies from other nations that are just remakes of well known American films such as "Rambo". I believe the Russians made their own version of that movie just a couple years ago. I would argue that the movie and television business is always ripping off everybody else regardless of the language. But I still agree with you. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 00:57, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

I'll try not to be too righteous, thanks Jcordell. I suppose if something's good, people will want to rip it off. The main thing I was frustrated by was the name, as like I said, Holmes never said "Elementary, my dear Watson" in any of the original books. It just shows the American writers once again disregarding for the original material, whereas Stephen Moffat and his writers actually recreate the actual books. To my knowledge, Holmes never guessed about Watson's sex life-but then again, Holmes was never a woman. It's like when America remade Fawlty Towers and got rid of Basil Fawlty. BASIL! The owner of the thing, and they get rid of him. It just defies logic. I'm trying not to get too righteous, but some things are best left in their home nations. Like Britain would never remake 'The Wire'. Thanks for agreeing. By the way, I know about this because I read the original material-something ''Elementary'''s writers negated to do. Alasdair.

::I agree. Some things are best left in their home nations and their own unique cultures. They just don't translate when you move them to a different county. Americans love James Bond, but they've never felt the need to Americanize 007.Well I know that it could be argued that Jason Bourne is the American version, but Bourne is also different though he does have the same initials. Anyway the character is British and that's what American movie viewers (and I think the millions of other fans across the globe) like. I don't know why they're so desperate to do that to Holmes.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] ([[User talk:Jcordell|talk]]) 23:23, 10 November 2012 (EST)

I don't know, but they had to change Watson to an Asian woman for some reason. The big T.V executives have to see homosexual undertones in everything, perhaps? There never was one. Or maybe they're trying to seem multi-cultural. Who knows, but I can't see it exceeding the first season. Alasdair.

User talk:Alasdair

2012-11-10T07:52:20Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Elementary

2012-10-20T17:15:25Z

Alasdair: Created page with "Why does this show exist? There was a perfectly good Sherlock series, why did there have to be another, American one? Also, Sherlock never actually said "Elementary, my dear W..."

Why does this show exist? There was a perfectly good Sherlock series, why did there have to be another, American one? Also, Sherlock never actually said "Elementary, my dear Watson" in any of the original books. Honestly, America.

Talk:The Saboteur

2012-09-10T20:06:05Z

Alasdair:

__TOC__ 

== Weapon Descriptions ==

Could anyone please add the in-game weapon descriptions? I don't have the English version of the game and therefor can't put in the original descriptions. Some screenshots, especially of the fictional guns, would be nice too (I have the 360 version of the game.) --[[Special:Contributions/83.79.97.30|83.79.97.30]] 22:49, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
::: Add screenshots and make captions under them in English.
What should be in the caption? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 16:36, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Translation

== Unidentified M1911-like pistol ==

[[Image:Saboteur - Colt.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Game startup screen]]

--[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 17:33, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Weird, but it's looking like a Colt 1903 hammerless got it on with a Smith & Wesson Model 39, with some 1911 parts thrown in. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 16:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

Really? The first thing you looked at was the Smith & Colt?

== Steiner Rifle ==

Definitely not a [[Gewehr 43]].
[[Image:Saboteur - Steiner.jpg|thumb|none|400px|"Steiner Rifle" scoped]]
[[Image:Saboteur - Steiner2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|"Steiner Rifle"]]

--[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 11:13, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

/AUA

Looks like a generic Springfield-looking rifle, with an in-game mechanism like the M1's en-bloc. It's not like they were particularly interested in weapon function, anyway.

AUA/

Reminds me of a Gewher 98. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 22:59, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== MP40 placement ==

Why is the MP40 listed as a rifle instead of a submachinegun?

== The .44 revolver... ==

Resembles the 2nd model [[Smith_%26_Wesson_44_Hand_Ejector_Series|S&W Hand Ejector]]. ".44 Special" was one of the calibers available for this revolver, and the name of the gun appearing in the game might be in reference to this round and not the "Magnum". Notice that the revolver is never referred to as a "Magnum" in the game. Whether or not this was the intention of the game designers I can't be sure.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 03:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC

yes ur right [[cbeattie]]

Also can any one tell me what type of gun the terror scoped rifle is???????

Can someone help me, [[Cbeattie]] keeps reverting my edits like he knows better than me, can we settle on what this revolver is please, cause I think I got it right. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:14, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

Its a Smith and Wesson 44 hand ejector 2ND model

:Your just saying that cause Phillb36 mentioned it and I applied it. Your the one who kept changing it back to a Colt M1917. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:06, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

== Solution to the Terror Sniper Rifle "World-Crisis" ==

I say remove the whole section, fictional weapons should not be here, especially without PICTURES. The Terror MP60 is clearly an AA-12, but the Terror Sniper is not real. I'm sure Cbeattie will like my idea to remove the gun, right? ;-) - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:11, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
:The Terror Shotgun is '''slightly based''' on an AA-12, not clearly like the Terror MP60 is. Saiga-12s can have rifle type stocks like the Terror shotgun has, unlike the AA-12 and USAS 12. ;) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:16, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

the terror scoped rifle is real, so we will not get rid of it ([[User:Cbeattie|Cbeattie]] 03:15, 9 September 2011 (CDT))

Talk:List of firearms used by British Armed Forces

2012-08-27T15:41:02Z

Alasdair:

Once again, much like in the now-vastly-improved Russian weapons page, feel free to contribute as much as you'd like. The format is all together, and I'll periodically update the page myself, as well. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 19:09, 31 July 2012 (CDT)
:I'll add some stuff. In the case of weapons that are used by the SAS/SBS/whatever I would just list them as UKSF as that is the umbrella that they all fall under, and they all use the same pool of specialist weapons. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:23, 31 July 2012 (CDT)
::Yeah, I thought about the UKSF thing too. [[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 19:40, 31 July 2012 (CDT)
:::Massive respect too whoever created this, I've been waiting for something like this for a while! I'll try and contribute as best as I can. @Commando552, something you might wanna add is the H&K MP5A3 and MP5KA1, as used by the SAS/SBS/Royal Marines/Paratroop Regiment. As for out of service, as far as I'm aware, the SAS WERE issued Walther PPKs as a backup, however, I am unsure as to whether this is still in use by them. I know an AR-15 CQB type rifle is in use by the Pathfinder Regiment, Royal Military Police and Army Security Guard Regiments. The MP5KA1 is also used by Infantry drivers and Pilots. Hope this helps. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
::::Just added the SMGs. The problem is that there is not really any documentation about what the special forces use, it is more just what you can see them with in the rare photo or hear about through the grapevine. I believe the PPK is still on the books, although maybe not used, as there have been EFRs (Equipment Failure Reports) sent in for the PPK as recently as 2007, so someone was apparently using it then. As for the CQB AR-15, are you talking about the L119A1 which is a C8 SFW? If so I wasn't aware of the Pathfinders using this, I thought they used a C7 (for some reason i think 300 were bought but have no source for this, the number is just in my head) along with the Royal Marines Brigade Patrol Troop (as seen [http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.operations.mod.uk/veritas/img/veritas/45cdogp/jacana_stonehouse01_hr.jpg here]). They may have switched to the L119A1 by now to standardise (this was originally only used by the SAS/SBS but has been spreading out throughout the services) but a few years ago they still has the C7s. Have also seem them using M16A1s with A2 handguard which I'm assuming migrated over from UKSF. Where did you get the thing about drivers and pilots having MP5KA1s, have never seen or heard anything about that. Also, what do you mean by "Army Security Guard Regiments"? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:05, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

So we're not putting the LMT into this? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:00, 31 July 2012 (CDT)
:This page is very far from done (I'm off to bed now so if anyone else wants to try and help finish it of be my guest), but more importantly the L129A1 hasn't appeared in anything yet has it? if not then it shouldn't be on the site so shouldn't be here. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:16, 31 July 2012 (CDT)
::I think that if there is a gun used by the British, but doesn't have an Imfdb page, it should be listed here. This is a list of Guns used by the British Armed Forces, not a list of guns ''on Imfdb'' used by British Armed Forces. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:03, 31 July 2012 (CDT)
:::I was under the impression that these pages ARE a list of guns used by the British Army that appear on IMFDB as an aid to ID-ing and working out if something is anachronistic/inaccurate. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:31, 1 August 2012 (CDT)
:::That's exactly what it is, a list of guns ''on IMFDb'' used by the British Armed Forces. We're a wiki about guns in media, not a general gun encyclopedia. These "firearms used by [insert organization name]" pages are already bleeding toward the latter as is, IMO. If one wants a complete list of all guns used by the Brits, Wikipedia has a template listing as such at the bottom of various pages [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L85]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:44, 26 August 2012 (CDT)
@Commando552 Yeah mate, it's not unheard of for UKSF to use the Walther, as I believe it used as a backup. Yeah the L119A1 is what I meant - that sort of weaponry has been used by Pathfinders (to my knowledge) in Afghanistan on patrols, due too compact size (I believe). I cannot speak for the RM, but seeing as the Brigade Patrol Group are a recon regiment (like the Pathfinders) it would make sense, as they favor compact weaponry. As for pilots/drivers, I read somewhere that they had, however after re-reading the same article, they do not, it was just my error of skim reading over the words "pilots", " infantry drivers" and "MP5K". I do apologize for the confusion on the pilots part, but I do believe they carry a sidearm. In combat, Infantry drivers were known to be issued an MP5 of some sort. I assumed it was the A1 due to the fact it is easy to conceal and easy to draw (due to the sights), in case of contact. The Army Security Guards (Military Provost Guard Service) have been known too use a CQB AR-15 during in VIP close protection, too the best of my knowledge. As for the M16A1s with the A2 handguard, to the best of my knowledge, I cannot recall hearing or seeing any branch of the UK military using it in my time, but I may be wrong. However, I will double check the info and will get back too you. Apologizes for any confusion. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:The Pathfinders and BPT were still using the C7 in Afghanistan, there are quite a few photos of it, but my guess is that they may have phased it out now that the L119A1 is becoming more widespread. The only reason they adopted the C7 in the first place is that at the time the L85 was incapable of taking an UGL, so they wanted a rifle they could mount an M203 on. I don't think the MPGS do use the L119A1 as they have no close protection role, that is the Royal Military Police who tend to use the short barrelled version of the L119A1. Now that you say that about the MP5 for drivers and pilots that clicks something in my brain, but I think they actually used the MP5A3 not the MP5K. However this is not the case anymore, with them either using the L22A2 or the L119A1. Also, [http://www.mega-tapety.info/resize/militaria-zolnierze-2560-1920-1706.jpg here] is a photo of a couple of BPT marines, note that the one on the right has an A2 handguard but no brass deflector. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:31, 1 August 2012 (CDT)

Why is there a 'Flamethrower' section? To my knowledge, the British Army has-and will never use-flamethrowers. It's just not the done thing. Alasdair.
* They did use the [[No. 2 Portable Flamethrower]] during WW2 --[[User:Crackshot|Crackshot]] 07:28, 01 August 2012 (GMT)
:Flamethrower in this context also refers to any rocket-based incendiary weapon (i.e. the US FLASH launcher). --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 07:44, 1 August 2012 (CDT)

This might only be my imagination but i thought the Accuracy International AW was named L96?
:Almost. The L96A1 is the Accuracy International PM. The Arctic Warfare is the L118A1.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 03:05, 1 August 2012 (CDT)
::There is A LOT of confusion about the L96 designation, mainly because in some sources the Army gets it wrong. In some places they incorrectly call the L118A1 the L96A1, so they then work backwards to say that the original PM was just the L96, despite the fact that this isn't how British designations work, always having an A1 at the end. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:11, 1 August 2012 (CDT)

== L22A1/A2 ==

The version of the L22 that is currently issued is actually referred to as the A2 variant, despite what the L85 page says. It has the "HK A2" markings on it, and MOD documents refer to it as the L22A2. I think part of the confusion is the fact that the receiver markings are A1 as they are built from scavenged L86A1 receivers. I think the L22 prototype is now retroactively refereed to as the L22A1, although it was not called this at the time. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:40, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

== Miniguns ==

OK, I think I may have stuffed things a bit with the minigun entry, since searching http://www.defenceimagery.mod.uk for "minigun" shows both GAU-17s and M134s with DA flashhiders. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:19, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

:I wouldn't worry too much about it, there is a random mix of miniguns used by the RAF and RN. As far as I have seen, the majority have a 2 flange barrel clam with either a solid or slotted flash hider, whilst some have a 4 flange clamp with slotted flash hider (like the GAU-17/A). The two flange with the solid flash hider would be a Dillon, but don't know what the 2 flange with the slotted flash hider would be. Not sure, but i think this may be a Dillon as well, as I believe the early Dillon barrel clamps had the slots before they decided it was more effective without them. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:37, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

== This just in... ==

I'm currently scrambling to find verifiable sources for all this but apparently the Glock 17 Generation 4 with an added manual safety has been adopted to formally replace the L9A1. At the moment the only source I have is [http://www.arrse.co.uk/weapons-equipment-rations/186621-new-service-pistol.html this one], which is of questionable veracity until I see anything official. Thoughts? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:43, 26 August 2012 (CDT)
:I think [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/17/dsei-09-glock-17-with-thumb-safety/ this] is the gun in question (this is a 3rd gen but shows the safety), was put forward a few years ago but wasn't adopted and the MOD continued to buy SIGs. However I think this is now a monetary issue, with the MOD wanting a larger number of soldiers to be carrying a pistol and the Glock being probably less than half the price of a SIG. I would prefer them to keep the SIG as I prefer the trigger and the general feel of a SIG, but I can understand them going with the Glock 17 with this manual safety as it has pretty much the same position as the safety on the SA80 guns, and is also probably more idiot proof than a SA/DA gun with a decocker, which is a plus when you are looking for a gun which will be more widely issued. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:38, 26 August 2012 (CDT)
::Although looking back through the thread I think the Glock submitted for the trails in question didn't have the extra safety, which would bring the cost down a bit more. Plus the SIG was only a UOR anyway.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:44, 26 August 2012 (CDT)

== Clarification ==

Just to clarify, does the British military use the standard AW50 rifle, or the AW50F? I was just curious, and I couldn't find good information. [[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 09:15, 26 August 2012 (CDT)
:It is the AW50F. Have changed the "Used by" from UKSF to all branches, as it is used by all branches in an EOD capacity (such as [http://army-uk.com/news_detail.php?id=1652 Royal Navy clearance divers]), along with UKSF for long range sniping. Although only officially adopted in 2008, it had been used for a while by UKSF. There is a part of a biographical book called ''Sniper One'' written by Sgt. Dan Mills about hios time in Iraq in 2004 where his sniper unit is supported by a "Royal Marine" (although he is clearly actually special forces) sniper who in pictures in the book is using an AW50F.--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:56, 26 August 2012 (CDT)
:Also, [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/09/07/sniper-with-holographic-sight/ here] is a nice shot of A Royal Marine aerial sniper using one in an anti-piracy role with an EOTech sight showing that it is an AW50F. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:01, 26 August 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] 07:22, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

== L129A1 ==

Don't forget the new "Sharpshooter" L129A1 sniper rifle that got put into active duty last year.
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 12:51, 26 August 2012 (CDT)

We did have it in here, but since neither it nor the LM7 has appeared in anything fictional it got taken down again. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:18, 26 August 2012 (CDT)

:If you were going to make these pages so that they included every gun used rather than just the guns that appear in media, we would have to be adding hundreds of new pages for essentially no reason. Also, there are a large number of guns that have been used by certain militaries that it is near impossible to get a good picture of, as they have never been use by anyone but the miitary in question. For example, there was a custom made version of the P226 known as the P226K that was made in the 90s that had a full length grip with a shortened slide which was designated as the L106A1, but I dare you to find a picture of it to put it on here. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:48, 26 August 2012 (CDT)

::Also please don't link to world.guns, Max doesn't screen his ads for malicious java and the site is a digital plague pit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:10, 26 August 2012 (CDT)

:::As if his bad grammar and words constantly bleeding together aren't bad enough? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:37, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Well, he ''is'' Russian. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 09:11, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

Da.

Talk:Batman: Gotham Knight

2012-08-05T20:39:30Z

Alasdair:

From the length and shape of the empty shell casing, Deadshot's wrist guns might be chambered in .30 Carbine. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, and his rifle looks like it has the rear sights of a Thompson, and no scope. Instead he has a strange eye scope, which somehow lines up perfectly with his rifle's round, allowing him to fire from a ''moving'' ferris wheel.

==Moved from Main Page==
Could it possibly be a Smith & Wesson Model 500?
:1.)Don't post questions in the article. It looks sloppy. Use the discussion pages.
:2.)It could be. Or it could be any one of a number of 5-shot revolvers (like the [[Smith & Wesson Model 36 / 38|S&W M36]], [[Smith & Wesson Model 37 Airweight / 637 Airweight|S&W M37]], and [[Smith & Wesson Model 12|S&W M12]]), and we have no reason to assume that it's a 500 over any other model.
:--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:09, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

== Fox's gun ==

The grip reminds me of a Beretta Px4 Storm --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 09:49, 28 August 2011 (CDT)
:But none of it's other features resemble a PX4, so it can't be one.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 11:49, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Cockneys vs. Zombies

2012-08-03T21:17:45Z

Alasdair:

== Unknown guns ==

I´d need to see additional screenshots to be sure, but for the unknown guns I´d say: [[Browning Hi-Power]] (Unknown Handgun #2) and [[Enfield L85 rifle series|L85]] (Unknown Rifle), --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:20, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

Here is the trailer if you want to see it. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3p-giK1MU][[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 15:07, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

== The M16 ==

Is not an A4, it looks like an A1. Non-detachable carry handle and fixed rear sight. I'd change it, but I suck at editing pages. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] 15:28, 3 August 2012 (CDT)

== Airsoft? ==

If this is shot in London, all of those weapons must be airsoft, due to gun laws.

Talk:List of firearms used by British Armed Forces

2012-08-01T06:36:31Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Upotte!!

2012-08-01T06:34:21Z

Alasdair:

==Guns List==
[[File:U02 list.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
a list showing many guns , e.g F200 , ACR ,G11,ARX160 etc.

While it'd be fun to put all of them into the page, I don't think the anime will run that long. We will see AK derivs though, I believe the neko and the elf in the opening sequence is the Galil and some other deriv, if what I remember from people telling me about the manga...which I should read.--[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 11:54, 15 April 2012 (CDT)

== Names ==
Anyone know if Funco is correct? Most translated versions of the manga has her spelled as 'Funko' which might mean daughter of FN if I remember my Japanese, while wiki has it as Funco which would be closer to 'FNC', the gun she is personifying.--[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 10:38, 8 April 2012 (CDT)
:I'm guessing either is correct in terms of sound and the Funco / Funko thing is an intentional pun that it's impossible to preserve in English. I know "Faru" is probably a phonetic mistranslation; Japanese has no luh-ruh distinction and tends to have terminal vowel sounds, so "Faru" is just how you render "Fal" in Japanese. Same with "Jiisuri" (pronounced "gee shree"). Also if they bother to translate the names the two American rifles are called "One Six" and "One Four."

:Can't say I've ever found this kind of thing appealing, but hey. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:45, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

== Japan has done it again ==

If something like this was broadcast in the UK people would have a fit, partially due to the guns and partially because of all the school girls going spread eagle in front of the camera.

Anyway, in the picture below, what is the rifle 3rd from the front, that appears to be on a sling?

[[File:U01ar18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

It looks like it might be the AUG, but that barrel is too short for a conventional AUG.

Plus it looks like a different length from this picture:

[[File:SigandAugUppotteEp1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

There looks to be a couple more inches of actual barrel before the flash hider in the lower picture.

Anyone got any ideas? -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 06:09, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

[[Image:SteyrAugCarbineBlack.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Steyr AUG carbine with 16" Barrel - 5.56x45mm]] This? Looks to be using the open-front flash hider design. The "sling" looks like the front "leg" of the sight drawn rather severely off-model. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:48, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

:Ahh yes I see what you mean about the scope. But the barrel still looks way too short. It looks like the barrel is at 1, possibly 2 inches shorter than it should be... Can you get a carbine/short barrel version of the A2? I'm not familiar with one. -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 07:19, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

[[Image:AUG A2 16.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Steyr AUG A2 (Military Version) - 5.56x45mm NATO]] [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:20, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

== Explicit images ==

Am I the only one who frowned to see somewhat explicit content on this movie page? I am familiar with Manga, but the way I see it, here at IMFDB, both in images and in writing we should focus on the guns and not on (underaged?) girl's underwear. It is true that some good gun movies have explicit images but in these cases I think we should only show 'decent' screenshots, unless it's 200% necessary to do otherwise, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 14:20, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
:While no doubt creepy, but still technically SFW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:28, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
::This isn't explicit. Explicit is when you can actually see something. This, as noted, is just kinda creepy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:47, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
:::I'll second with Tim on this. Its a little weird, but if you know anything about Japan, then you know it is the weirdest country on the planet. If you haven't already, watch the Japanese Windows 7 advert ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1MtA5vtVVo]). It is genuinely beyond belief how a country can accept it as 'Normal' (I would love to see Bill Gates reaction to it!) -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 15:41, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
::::Uh, really?..That's all? The way you were talking about this ad I thought it was going to have porn in it or something...and no, the host shaking her butt at the camera doesn't count! Even though it may seem odd to us to use animation for a commercial which is essentially aimed at adults, it's something that is ingrained and accepted in the culture. And considering what else is out there, I really didn't find anything extremely weird or overly disburbing about this ad at all.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 21:28, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
:::: Nothing we can do about it since it's already made. I just live with it though... [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 19:28, 10 April 2012 (CDT)
:::::If this is for the images of the three Battle Rifles, I appologize, until the next episode where there are more Screenshot-worthy images of them using their gun-selves, the explicit shots remain. As for Funko/Funco's pictures, I imagine it'll be part of the plot, and also they are the best shots of the FN FNC besides the title card. The only other gun closeup screenshot to rival it would be those with Ichiroku and the M16A4.--[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 06:39, 11 April 2012 (CDT)
::::::Prudes. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 11:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)
::::Probably since, as someone who custom assembled their PC, I know that build a computer is NOT that easy. Fitting the parts isn't too bad, but wiring is soul destroying (particularly if you have multiple hard drives, optical drives, graphics cards and such) and installing the OS is... irritating to say the least. -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 13:55, 12 April 2012 (CDT)
::::I'm not really sure how the advertisement with the moe character giving an overview of a PC's components is "weird", at least compared to the number of bizarre advertisements and mascots that American television churns out. An OS-tan character is a rather tame example. There are far, far weirder Japanese adds out there ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWYtrF1z5mc&list=FLbrtS9CjDhZ7sHcsmz8dKoQ&index=6&feature=plpp_video the BOSS canned coffee adds with Tommy Lee Jones come to mind]).--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 16:19, 12 April 2012 (CDT)
It's all a question of perspective. Everything we do looks weird to them. "What, they have a cartoon mouse? Who doesn't have a battle robot?" Also, what would it be like to date a girl who was the personification of an assault rifle? Any ideas? Alasdair.

== Analogy to the real thing ==

The characters in the show seemed to have personalities and traits that apparently is mirroring their real world counter part. I wonder how true is it that the SIG SG550 is the most accurate when compared to the M16, FNC, and the L85. They even mentioned how more accurate it is with the Swiss GP90 bullets. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:52, 24 April 2012 (CDT)
:You can ascribe personalities to inanimate objects? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:10, 24 April 2012 (CDT)

Well, the characters have traits that are like the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:22, 24 April 2012 (CDT)
:I think the introduction of the Sako and Galil further proves that. Sixteen comments on why they were acting all high and mighty when the training/compeition was gonna take place in a Jungle (upon being shown Sixteen's history with the AK and the two being AK derivs). Also shown as well with Fourteen's comments on them being Western guns yet modeled after the AK ( a sentiment I'm sure shared by others). Also, Japan/China (forget which) has the tradition where an object/animal achieving a certain age (100 years I think) becomes 'alive', so no doubt the personification of inanimate objects is more 'common' or 'accepted' there than it would be here. Here in the US though, such concept would probably just fuel the meme that a loaded gun will shoot you regardless if a person is holding it or not. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 17:57, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

== Same gun, same position, same picture! ==
First time posting...

[[File:SA-80 rifle stripped 1996.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:Upotte L85A1 field strip.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

I thought that image looked familiar [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:23, 24 April 2012 (CDT)

== Congrats! ==

And this series has finally scored the Japanese weirdness hat trick: guns, schoolgirls, and cat girls. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 23:59, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

At least the current episode didn't end up with up shots of girls again....the only reason I look at this show is the gun details, though I am waiting for them to introduce the new guns like SCAR or TAVOR or other popular guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 00:17, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

:Must we bother with this? [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 00:25, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

For the sake of guns...yes...yes ONE of us has to. You don't have to if it offends you but if someone watched Human Centipede and made a page about that so...yeah. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 00:32, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

:I'll still watch this due to the gun action later on, but I just don't want to hear peeps complaining on and on and on... I feel that they're the ones being offended. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 00:46, 29 April 2012 (CDT)
::I'm not complaining, and I didn't want to start anything, I just think it's funny. (And the page looks great.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 00:55, 29 April 2012 (CDT)
:::Been working on the page since a while ago as I'm out of university for a while. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 01:12, 29 April 2012 (CDT)
::::I knew when I made the page there will be people who would be finding offense or talking about it. I don't mind it, I'm loving the show because it loves to throw tidbits of trivia out there as part of the whole 'slice-of-life' aspect of the show. And shots of girls? I dunno, you probably didn't mind the parts of episode 4 where M16A4 was cleaning herself while in undies or M14 giving L85 a bath. Just saying, if you're gonna voice some concerns about the shots of the girls, hold it and just stick with the guns, don't have to make your position very clear on the talk page. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 17:53, 29 April 2012 (CDT)

Hahah, M14 was cleaning L85 [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:04, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

== P90 Airsoft ==

Is the P90 also an airsoft gun? You can see it has the adapter for taking STANAG magazines but I don't know if they exist in real life or are airsoft only.
http://www.airsoftgi.com/images/airsoft-E1p90BoxMagC.jpg
:Airsoft only, that would never work with a real P90. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:55, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

== Early FAL ==

I have only seen the first episode (haven't gotten around to watching the rest yet), so what exactly is the context on the FAL that is labelled as 7.92x33mm? If they are trying to depict it as the first FAL they have gotten it totally wrong, with the 7.92mm FN Universal looking only vaguely like a modern FAL. As for what this is, It appears to be a bizarre hybrid with a C1 open topped dust cover, imperial receiver, smooth bolt (correct for metric and C1A1 but wrong for L1A1), L1A1 butt, early (no bipod cuts) FAL handguard and an imperial flash hider. So does that make this a C1A1 with... other bits? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:52, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

== Galil bottle opener ==

They made a sort of references when Galil bit into a bottle to pop the cap but the variant in the show doesn't have the bottle opener option [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:36, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

:I've been wondering about the Galil's bottle opener. I've always thought the bottle opener was actually under the handguard, but when I was looking it up on wiki, it says that the wire cutter actually serve as the bottle opener. Anyone know which is the correct one?--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 17:30, 29 May 2012 (CDT)

Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIwtCL8CigI go to 6:44 and it will show you where the bottle opener is [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:23, 29 May 2012 (CDT)

:That's exactly where I always thought the bottle opener would be...so Wiki's wrong then. Is the bottle opener available on AR too, or is it on ARM only?--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 14:00, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

I think all Galil have the bottle opener but only the one with the bipod can you use it to cut wires [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:23, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

:I don't think there is a bottle opener built into the standard AR as that has a different handguard. On the AR the metal band at the back of the handguard is continuous without the gap in the middle to hook the bipod legs into. I've always kind of doubted that the bottle opener was a design feature, but was just adopted as standard by soldiers. Were bent magazine lips really happening with such frequency that they had to build a bottle opener in? Regardless, using the magazine lips is lacking in ingenuity. Better to fold the stock and use the claw part inside the pivot. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:51, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

== Too many screen caps for one gun ==

I think there's too many gun pics for a lot of the firearms on this page. I think 5 is already pushing it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:51, 27 May 2012 (CDT)

:I know that it's kinda hard for me especially. I think at least the screencaps of firearms that are significant in an episode would do. Although if there's another suggestion, feel free to voice them. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 23:10, 27 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Here is a suggestion. Cut them down. Pick out the best ones and delete the rest. The rules were created because different contributors from time to time so totally abused the system that the rules had to be implemented. Remember if you cannot police your own pages, Mods will eventually do it for you. But being the creator, we want you to do the final edits if possible. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:19, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

:: From the rules: "For a single character using a single weapon, the limit should be 7 screenshots. 10 is the limit if documenting multiple characters using the same type of weapon or specifically trying to validate a weapon which may be subject of debate." Exception could be made in the case of there being some good reason to do so in order to document the weapon fully, if anyone wants to argue that, but these are the general guidelines. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:02, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

::: Letting you guys know that I didn't create the page, but a review would be done soon to see which screenshots would get the cut. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 03:25, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== This AK is Polish AKS-74 ? ==

Please a closer look at the right gun in the photo below. I do not think this AK is the AIMS-74.
And there is no grip because. I think this is Polish AK's Wz.88 Tantal?
[[File:U10 ai74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Girl on the right gun stance is that the AK.]]

[[Image:AIMS-74.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AIMS-74 - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Wz.88 Tantal.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Wz.88 Tantal - 5.45x39mm]]

Since I have not seen this anime, please discuss with everyone. -- [[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] 10:39, 12 June 2012 (JST)

== Different weapon classes now ==

I'm confused now. It looks like a straight up Eastern Bloc Assault Rifles vs the West, but now they throw in a Saiga shotgun and a RPK. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:35, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

: Well I know the RPK has the same bullets as the AK-47. But yeah on the Saiga... [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 21:37, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
::Well so does the SAW, the RPK is just a magazine fed LMG AK [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:50, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
::: Way I see it, it's with the bullets (aside from the types of weapons involved). But bringing in shotguns is a new thing. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 17:18, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

Talk:12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun

2012-07-26T17:57:19Z

Alasdair:

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CZ-584.jpg|500px|thumb|none|CZ-584 Shotgun - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:Large2-uplander.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Stoeger Uplander - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:Baikal izh43.jpg|thumb|none|500px| Baikal Izh43 hammerless side by side shotgun - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:StoegerCoachGunWestern.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Stoeger imported Coach Western side by side shotgun with exposed hammers - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:R VG BENTLEY CLUNN.JPG|thumb|none|500px|VG Bentley - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:Beretta 470 Silver Hawk.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Beretta 470 Silver Hawk - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:Sawed-off Stevens 1960s SBS.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Stevens 1960s SBS with the barrels sawed-off - 12 Gauge (Photoshoped). Made from one of MPM's pictures.]]
[[Image:Sawed-off Stevens SBS 1960s.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Sawed-off Stevens 1960s SBS with very short barrels - 12 Gauge (Photoshoped). Made from one of MPM's pictures.]]
With two barrels stacked on top of one another the O/U proved to be more accurate and effective at shooting airborne clay targets and bird hunting than a side-by-side.
[[Image:Remington premier.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Remington Premier 12 or 20 gauge, or a combination.]]
[[Image:IMG 1298.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Samuel L. Jackon's cut-down CZ Redhead - 12 gauge O/U shotguns as used in ''The Spirit''. This image was provided specially to IMFDB by a source close to the movie's armorers.]]
[[Image:TOZ-34.jpg|500px|thumb|none|TOZ-34 - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:hitphotogun.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|This is a photoshopped image of what the Sawn-Off Over/Under Shotgun - 12 Gauge could look like, with the exception that the foregrip is still attached.]]
[[Image:Investarm12.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Investarm "Single Trigger" O/U Model Shotgun - .410 Gauge. This is not the model used in the film ''[[Eraser]]'', but very close.]]
[[Image:Sawed-off Browning O-U.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Sawn-off Browning Over and Under shotgun - 12 Gauge (Photoshoped).]]

Note: Most 8 gauge shotguns were NOT punt guns. 8 gauge punt guns were rare, and in generally had a MUCH LONGER chamber than the standard 8 gauge. I don't know why hunting regulations drew the line of 'too big' between 8 gauge and 10 gauge, but it is wrong to instantly call an 8 gauge a 'punt gun'

Unless someone objects in the near future, I will be editing out 'punt gun'

== Firing Sawn-off Double Barreled Shotguns One Handed ==

Is it possible in real life to fire a sawn-off double barreled shotgun one handed effectively and with out hurting ones-self? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]
:A 12 or 20 gauge is relatively controllable with one hand with only a little stout recoil, but if you went up to 10 or 8 gauge, it's more likely you're going to hurt your wrist or bruise your finger in the trigger guard from the recoil. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Assuming the lever that opens the breach doesn't drive into the web of your hand. Worst case scenario: severed thumb.
:::Ouch! Good thing 10 and 8 gauges are pretty rare now a days, well I should of mentioned 12 gauge do to it being the most common. Wow, I did not expect a sawn-off 12 gauge shotgun to be that easy to shoot one handed. So is shooting a sawn-off 12 GA shotgun with one hand similar to firing .44 Magnum revolver or of the like with one hand? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]
::::It's at most just a little more stout than a .44 Magnum. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
Are you sure? If experience with Snub-nosed revolvers teaches anything it's that shortening the barrel increases felt recoil. Given the recoil of a normal 12 gauge shotgun, I'd imagine a Sawn-off weapon would be a nightmare. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
:::The recoil from a shoulder-fire 12 gauge isnt too bad but it all varies based on the amount of recoil your used to, if your a first time shooter (or a woman, just saying) i wouldn't advise you do it, but if you have experience with marginal recoil(Revolvers, like .357s and .38s)i think youll be fine..... "CZAR"
::::lol, I recently shot a Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Mag revolver one handed, it was easy. X) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

==Over Under Shotgun in Call of Duty: World at War==

I don't ever remember an over-under shotgun being in this game. A side-by-side, yes, but no O/U. Someone may have gotten confused with Black Ops. Does anybody ever see an O/U shotgun in this game?

I'm calling confusion as well. No over-under shotty in World At War --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 15:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Firing both barrels of a Double Barreled Shotgun ==

Would firing both barrels at the same time really destroy a double barreled shotgun like some people said on this site? I would very much appreciate an answer from someone who actually knows what their talking about and not just someone assuming, thank you. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

I've fired both barrels at one on numerous occasions whilst clay pigeon shooting and from berettas to webleys it has never once damaged anything but my aim --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 08:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Depends on the qualitity of said shotgun and maybe the age. And the ammunition used is, of course, of importance, too.
I think that there are some shotguns out there were doubling is not a wise option - but so long I haven't encountered any.
(Maybe because I rarely handle american made shotguns ;) ) - tiredWeasel
:So would firing two shots of 2-3/4 shells with 00 Buck-shot at the same time do much to a good SBS or O/U? It probably would hurt, lol, except to someone who shoots shotguns a lot. Someone keeps posting on the Half-Life 1 & 2 pages (in the SPAS-12 section) [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Half-Life]] [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Half-Life_2]] that, and I quote "it has the unrealistic ability to fire two shells at once (alternative fire) which would destroy any double barreled shotgun if attempted from the shock of doing so and would render the weapon useless". I guess it's a rumor like the one about firing sawn-off shotguns and magnum handguns one-handed will break your wrist. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

::Yeah, that's bullshit. What's going to be destroyed? The barrels? Each barrel takes the shock of firing one round, so that guy is basically claiming it's also impossible to fire ''one'' barrel of a shotgun. The stock? What, does he have a special shotgun with a stock made of expanded polystyrene? [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 18:33, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
:::He said the '''Shock'''. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]
::::The shock that destroys the stock. Unless you drink the brew that is true, I suppose. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 1 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::No no no, that original guy didn't say anything about the stock, read the quote in my larger post above carefully. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:58, 1 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::What the guy was saying was that the shock would destroy the gun. I was questioning what part of the gun it was supposed to be able to destroy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:06, 1 August 2011 (CDT)
:::::::The barrels, but it's a silly thing that's already been resolved. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 05:24, 1 August 2011 (CDT)
::::::::Argle. Ok, he said "the shock can destroy it" so I replied "what is it supposed to destroy? The barrels (etc)? The stock (etc)?" It does make sense. :s [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:52, 1 August 2011 (CDT)
There are more parts then barrel and stock ^^
For example if parts of the locking mechanism are not tightly fitted and the shotgun is of (very) poor quality and well used there might be a small possibility that you destroy the locking mechanism when doubling the gun. I'm not talking about "blowing up". It IS possible - but very, veeeeery unlikely. Very unlikely. - tiredWeasel

* Yeah, I know that, it was just for purposes of making a point. You can build any gun badly; you'll find plenty of images lurking around of handguns that have gone kaboom for various reasons, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to shoot a handgun. Yeah, in a badly made gun you might damage the locking mechanism or the pivot, but that's hardly the same as saying it's impossible to shoot both barrels of any double-barrel without physically destroying it. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:49, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

Just to add, I've fired both barrels on one of my shotguns on multiple occasions, and no harm was done. Having said that I have also seen a shotgun break firing both barrels. The gun appeared fine immediately afterwards, but when he broke the action the barrels fell off. Turned out that the metal part at the back of the handguard that limits the pivot of the barrels (don't know the proper name) had sheared off from the recoil. This was a relatively old, loose and cheap shotgun though. On a well made and maintained shotgun, I don't think its a problem. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:52, 1 August 2011 (CDT)

:Interesting. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:25, 1 August 2011 (CDT)

== How far down can the barrels go? ==

How far down could you saw the barrels of a double barrel before it became unsafe? Alasdair.

Talk:Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

2012-07-26T11:36:04Z

Alasdair:

== Radio Calls ==

{{incomplete}}
Some of the radio calls in Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater describe the weapons that Snakes has access to throughout the game. However the amount of dialog is so great that it there is not enough room on the main page for it.

==FP-45 Liberator==

===The Boss===
The Boss: I see you're using the EZ Gun. The EZ Gun is a silenced tranquilizer gun for special-ops use developed for FOX by the CIA's technology division.

Naked Snake: A silenced tranquilizer gun? I don't see a suppressor on here...

The Boss: Apparently, the tranquilizer rounds themselves are designed to suppress the sound.

Naked Snake: Interesting. In other words, I won't have to worry about the suppressor wearing out on me, right?

The Boss: That's right. It's also equipped with a laser sight so that you can make accurate shots even at a distance. In addition, merely equipping the EZ GUN should have a positive effect on your Camo Index. I've even heard it helps you recover your stamina. Put it to good use.

==M1911A1==

===Sigint===

Sigint: So you've got an M1911A1, huh?

Snake: Yeah. EVA gave it to me. She said it used to belong to a Western officer.

Sigint: Looks like someone did a little work on it, too.

Snake: It's more than a little. First of all, the feeding ramp has been polished to a mirror sheen. It's not going to have any feeding problems. The slide's been replaced with a reinforced version. And it meshes perfectly with the frame. The frame itself has been iron-welded and scraped down multiple times for maximum precision. The front strap part of the frame has been checkered to make it dig into the hand. That prevents any slipping. The sight system's original, too. It's a 3-dot type. It's got an enlarged front sight, giving it superior target sighting capability. The regular hammer's been replaced with a ring hammer. That enhances the cocking speed and increases the hammer-down speed. They also reworked the grip safety to accommodate the ring hammer. Looks like they eliminated it altogether. This is a tool for pros. The thumbs safety and the slide stop are extended to allow for more precise handling. The base of the trigger guard is whittled down, so you can use a high grip. And the trigger itself is a long type for easy finger access. The trigger pull is about 3.5 pounds. That's about a pound and a half lighter than normal. The magazine well has been widened to make it easier to put in a new magazine. The magazine catch button has been cut down low to make it harder to hit by mistake. The mainspring housing has been changed to a flat type to increase grip. And it's even been fitted with stepping so that it doesn't slip from the recoil when firing. On top of that, they added cocking serrations to the front part of the slide. That lets you load and eject cartridges faster in an emergency. Whoever did this is a professional. No question - this thing could shoot a one-hole at 25 yards in a machine rest.

Sigint: Well, I'll be damned. That's some gun.

Snake: Yeah. I've never used a weapon this fine in my life.

==Mk22 Mod 0 "Hush Puppy" (Smith & Wesson 39)==

===The Boss===

The Boss: The gun you're using is a test model of a suppressor-equipped pistol currently in development by the Navy, that's been modified by the CIA into a tranquilizer gun. The suppressor-equipped pistol it's derived from is itself being developed for use by Special Forces based on the M39...

Naked Snake: The Mk22.

The Boss: That's what they're going to call it if they decide to adopt it for official use... It uses a slide-lock mechanism, that will keep the firing sound down to a minimum...

Naked Snake: But I'll have to reload it by hand every time I fire. Right?

The Boss: Right. You won't be able to fire multiple shots at once, so make every shot count. Aim for the enemy's vital spots. There's talk of designing the Mk22 to accommodate special subsonic rounds, but for this mission you'll be using specifically designed tranquilizer rounds. In a way, these tranquilizer rounds are like miniature syringes. When one of them strikes a target, the impact causes a needle contained within to shoot out. At the same time, chemicals inside the round are mixed to create a gas, which pushes the plunger and injects the tranquilizer into the target. You can knock out an enemy immediately by shooting them in the head. But if you shoot them in the arm or leg, the tranquilizing agent will take some time to set in. Aim carefully.

==Rocky Mountain Arms Patriot Pistol==

===Sigint===

Sigint: Using the Patriot, eh?

Snake: Yeah. It's the same one The Boss was using.

Sigint: Where'd you get it?

Snake: Hmm?

Sigint: I said, where'd you get it?

Snake: Sigint, don't get worked up over the details.

Sigint: ??? Whatever. Anyway, the Patriot is a one-of-a-kind sidearm made especially for The Boss. It's basically an XM16E1 with the barrel cut short and the stock taken off. The idea was to create a large pistol that combined the feel and quick handling of a handgun with the force of a rifle. But with a barrel that short, the recoil is unbelievable. It's tough to aim, but it more than makes up for it in firepower. From the looks of it, it's fitted with a 100-round drum magazine... And it never runs out of ammo?

Snake: Never.

Sigint: Why's that?

Snake: Because the internal feed mechanism is shaped like an infinity symbol.

Sigint: Ah, I get it. Yep, that'll give you unlimited ammo.

==AK-47==

===The Boss===

The Boss: You said the enemy is equipped with AK-47s, didn't you? The AK-47 is the official assault rifle of the Soviet army. It's employed not only by the Soviets, but throughout the Eastern bloc. It uses 7.62mm x 39 ammunitions, with a magazine capacity of 30 rounds. The AK is reliable, precise, powerful, and easy to handle - in short, one of the best assault rifles there is. Don't even think about getting into a one-man firefight against an enemy unit equipped with AKs. Avoid battle as much as possible. Are we clear?

I will be adding more and more as time goes on help will be appreciated as the MGS wiki is missing some calls in the game. [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 14:10, 3 July 2012 (CDT)

==Discussion==
=== This Game is the best game. ===

Ok, it's not the best game but it's one of the best games of all time. It's basically an awesome Bond Movie. It has a awesome pre-title sequence (The Virtous Mission), a great title sequence with an awesome song (You know the one i'm talking about), a bond girl (EVA), fights with various henchmen (Cobras, Ocelot), Q (Sigint) and a incredibly ridiculous stereotypical evil enemy (Volgin and his cronies). It's the best game on the PS2. It also got great voice acting and extremely awesome and ridiculous stuff like when EVA dropsaults Ocelot with a '''motorcycle'''. Even though i got some complaints the game is still one of the best games of all time.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

:Sure is, I really like Ocelot in this game, he is so badass with his revolver tricks and that hand gesture he does all the time. I also like how the game has you use survival tactics too, such as finding food, and treating your injuries. It was this game got me into MGS.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:57, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::I also like how Ocelot kinda admires Snake. I also like how Ocelot is basically a Cowboy and how Snake says that the engraving on his SAA ins't useful tatical wise. I just love this game. I think I'm the only one that laughed in MGS2 when there was the easter egg where snake is caught having a....ugh...erm... a ''happy time'' in a locker. Or was it MGS1? Anyway, i have some complaints about the game though. Like how EVA is supposed to be chinese and she looks extremely american or all the anachroisms (I probably spelled that wrong) or how Snake spergs out about guns.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

:::If I remember correctly, and it's possible I may not because I haven't played MGS3 in a while, Eva was actually American but had been kidnapped by the Philosophers and sent to China, where she grew up in an orphanage-type place and was trained as a Chinese agent. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
::I don't know but she's either Chinese or an american that defected to the chinese or she could be what you just said, Spartan.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::She could be based on those Americans who was captured during the Korean war, in which they been indoctrinated about the Chinese Communism. When the war was over, they were released and starting to promote Communism in U.S. However Eva is not captured, so I guess she was either left behind by her American parents in China (could be Shanghai) when Mao Zedong won the Chinese Civil war and send to an orphanage or she was kidnapped by the Chinese Philosophers and train her into an agent. - Han

I remember this was the most played Metal Gear Solid game I've ever own. I would play it over and over more than my remake of MGS1 and MGS2. When MGS4 came out, I still had time to play the 3rd one again because of the story and gameplay. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I realize that this may be late, but I think that the theme tune 'Snake Eater' is one of the best in all of video game history. Alasdair.

=== Airsoft 1911 ===

[[Image:Snake_.45-2.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Snake's custom M1911: in reality, a custom airsoft gun made by Sheriff Co. of Japan.]]

I dont think thats the model they used in the game. First of all, it was a Government model, and on its slide it had 90 degree serrations like the GI M1911A1(Both on the front and on the back). The grip safety was a standard m1911a1 grip safety, but was edited in some regions. The trigger had 5 or 6 holes in it. It had a threaded black barrel, and the wooden grips were cut to accomodate a cqc knife. That 1911 may look similar to untrained eyes, but it's quite different from what Big Boss had in Op.Snake Eater.

:Actually, the custom M1911A1 Naked Snake uses has ''no grip safety whatsoever''. This is mentioned during radio conversations with Sigint. --Orca*

Could someone try to get a screencap of it from the menu rather than using the one from my site, and don't try to deny it, I edited it to remove the markings on the slide.
-Crimson.
This 1911 looks more like a colt XSE to me...-izak 99

this is the exact copy, more or less.. just an airsoft replica, copy paste the link*
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.y-cw.com/hal-12b.htm&ei=IIsUSsbuE9HVlQf4qrTFAw&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnm%2B7267719%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DADBS,ADBS:2006-45,ADBS:en

Moved this into discussion. As I also noted in the MGS4 discussion, the airsoft gun in the picture has little more than a slight superficial resemblance to the weapon in the game. The link above seems to be a more accurate replica of the pistol in the game.

=== Slide lock on the tranq pistols ===
Why is it Snake never simply ''disengages'' the slide lock on the tranq pistols in these games in order to enable them to cycle on their own? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:48, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Best guess is that the rounds don't have the power to fully cycle the slide on their own.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

its so that it is quieter apperently. if he fires without the slide lock it will become louder---[[Special:Contributions/92.12.88.35|92.12.88.35]] 15:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC) i think that is from the manual or something, cos i definatly is true
:Personally I'd rather have a slightly ''louder'' pistol that can cycle on its own rather than a slightly ''quieter'' one that's, in effect, a "bolt action" pistol. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes I wish the game let the player disengage the slide-lock on the tranq pistols when you're not using it with a suppressor. That would make it more useful in boss fights or other situations where you want to use non-lethal force but either don't have suppressors for the Hush Puppy or don't want to use one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:As I understand it, the S&W Model 39's used for ''Hush Pupppy's'' were irreversibly modified -- the slide-lock function could not be disengaged. A later version of the slide-lock pistol was the Beretta M9, and its modification, while also permanent, permitted the weapon to be disengaged from a manual reloading function into semiautomatic function. Snake, however, was NOT PERMITTED TO ENGAGE during the ''Virtuous Mission'', the operation in which he was issued the Mk.22. Hence, the added silence of a slide-lock pistol, the ammunition, etc., were not meant for direct combat -- they were meant for sneaking. The same thing goes for Solid Snake in MGS2 -- sneaking mission, stealth only, do not kill Marines. Than the Russians came... And Snake picked up a USP, first chance he got. ;) --Orca*

::I really don't think what Snake was or wasn't permitted to do is at all relevant. As with any black operation, there's always the possibility that you can be compromised and engaged yourself. When SEALs or some other SOF team goes on a recon mission where their ROE don't permit them to engage, the whole team doesn't take M4s modified to be hand-cycled only, do they? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Wouldn't know -- not a SEAL. But I imagine they have, in addition to their primaries, some sort of option for silent killing from a ranged distance -- the Mk.22 was developed to kill guard dogs; something that SF teams wouldn't be able to easily sneak up on and stab (or whatever). The Mk.22 represented in MGS3 uses that aspect, of 'the most silence possible from a distance', because solo ops were a FOX UNIT selling point to the CIA, who would organize them into an official unit if they succeeded in a completely undetectable rescue -- no deaths on either side, objective achieved, no traces to the US. Supposedly, even Snake's shell casings were unmarked, to say nothing of the tranquilizer load. Invisibility; on a physical and politcal scale, that was the mission as the story tells it, and so the Mk.22 was seen as the best choice to send Snake, already lightly loaded, in with. --Orca*

Where exactly are you getting that the Mk. 22 was developed specifically to "kill guard dogs"? Having an extra gun on you specifically to kill a few guard dogs that:
1. may or may not be there
2. are likely within full view of their handlers
seems incredibly superfluous when any silenced pistol would do the job equally well. Forgive me if I'm a tad bit skeptical of that claim. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 17:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

:Sorry for the late reply -- The Mk.22 was nicknamed ''Hush Puppy'' due to this reason. You raise an excellent point; if I had to guess, the pistol was more than likely used on the handler(s), or sentries, or anything else that needed to be killed without raising alarm, as well. But I've never read anything that denoted it for that purpose; I've only ever read of the Mk.22 being developed to silently kill dogs. In terms of other sileneced pistols is use by the US in 1960's, I couldn't suggest anything off the top of my head. MGS3 represented suppressors the for XM16E1 and the 1911A1 as very compact for the time, or as far as I know of, so I'm not certain why the Mk.22 would have been seen as necessary if there had been other alternatives that would do things just as easily. Perhaps it was due to the slide-lock? Maybe that made it quieter and more appealing to those who used it? -- Orca*

:According to a couple books I've read, the whole "killing guard dogs" bit was a ploy to get the pistol through bureaucratic red tape because certain powers-that-be thought that killing enemy combatants with a silenced weapon was "dishonorable" or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:26, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

::Apparently the idea is locking the slide prevents gas release from the ejection port as the weapon cycles, minimises the sound of cycling by letting the user do it slowly, and also means the gun isn't throwing brass around you'd have to look for (ground sign, and all). Most of the really quiet covert weapons use manually operated actions (eg De Lisle, Welrod), so it's not like it's just this one. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:17, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

=== Reloading while carrying a knife ===

I understand the tactics behind holding a knife in your reaction hand while you grip the weapon, but in reloading, that's just one extra thing you have to worry about not dropping. How would you get a good grasp of the spare mag while holding onto a knife. Snake seems to have no problems but it just occurred to me that trying this in real life can be very dangerous. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:24, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:It's even worse in MGS4 where apparently no one has ever heard of bayonets and always has a knife in the off-hand. It's part of the bias towards the gun-and-knife tactics of CQC that the series gained since MGS3. One way I think the reload could work with the knife in your off hand is if you grip the knife with your ring and pinky finger while using your thumb, index, and middle fingers to grip the mag. The real answer, however, would require that you look closely at the reload animations in this game or MGS4 to find out how they do it. They're all motion-captured, so they all have to be something real human beings can do. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:49, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
::It's not that they've never heard of bayonets. It's that bayonets are a clumsy, antiquated last ditch weapon. They are good in practice for basically one thing, and that is to (hopefully) turn your assault rifle into something like a spear which you will somehow manage to stab your enemy with before he fills you full of messy holes. You fix bayonets when you are out of bullets, grenades, helmets to throw at the other guy, air support and better ideas. In the close-quarters combat techniques that MGS' CQC is based on, the actual purpose of a knife is not merely as a cutting and slashing weapon; the knife serves as a method of controlling an opponent using pain-compliance and leverage. Granted I never saw anyone carry their knife like that ''all the time'', but then if I've been within a hundred miles of some special forces unit, they never bothered to come over and ask if I'd build 'em a house or something. I've definitely never seen anyone just running around with their bayonet fixed though. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 00:53, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
:Thinking back on this I believe it would be more convenient, simply for the sake of gameplay, if Snake could fix his Stun Knife as a bayonet onto his various long guns, then it would be simpler to simply tap an NPC with his new bayonet to stun them into submission or kill them silently with a well-placed stab instead of having to equip the knife to do so, or to rely on CQC (which takes more time). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:54, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Here's an experiment to try: Get a gun in one hand and a steak knife in the other. Hold the knife with the blade down just like Big Boss does. Now eject the magazine. Just let it drop, dont worry about it. Now pick it back up or find a new magazine. Do so by gripping the knife with your ring finger and pinky and clamping it against your palm. It keeps it in place and keeps it stable. Use your thumb, index finger, and middle finger to manipulate the magazine and rack the slide. Resume your grip and go about your day. It might sound complicated but even doing it four or fives times it starts to get easier. Big Boss holds his gun like this EVERY SINGLE TIME. So inconclusion it isnt that dangerous or awkward. go ahead and try it for yourself.

-Double Agent M

:I rather not recommend random people online to try a trick that an ingame "professional" can do. As I said, if you aren't careful, you could end up stabbing yourself in the gut. The point of reloading is to get a firm and complete grip on the spare mags and then get it out and into the gun as efficiently as possible. Not doing it super speed like some people would try, but even doing it slowly, you'd have to mentally check the knife with that blade sticking out. You'd need to train yourself constantly with a fake knife before using a live blade. Otherwise, the chances for an amateur to stab himself is very high. And I don't want anyone to point back on my article if I say "hey, try this at home and NOT end up stabbing yourself with a steak Knife". if you reload without a complete grip on the mag, you might drop it or the knife. Remember this is Big Boss! And Solid Snake can do it as well, though oddly enough he never did that in Metal Gear Solid, or MGS2. Solid Snake only started to do the knife and handgun combo after MGS3 when we've known about Big Boss's early years and also Solid Snake's Mk 23 was replaced with a 1911 to emulate Big Boss [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:47, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, I agree with Excalibur. That's not something the average person should try. But I should point out that Snake's knife is a lot smaller than a kitchen knife. I myself, while not technically a trained professional, ''do'' know my way around with a blade and did a little test run with one of my boot knives. Turns out, it actually ''isn't'' that awkward (though still quite dangerous). When I grab my mags, I contort my wrist to the right (thumb toward the body) and grab with my thumb, pointer, and index fingers. Holding the knife like Snake does, the blade faces ''away'' from me when I reach for a mag. So the moral here is (A) kids, ''do not'' try this at home and (B) it's actually not that hard to firmly hold both knife and magazine. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

But apparently in MGS4, Solid Snake does the knife combo with pretty much all of his guns if I am not mistaken. Imagine trying to grasp a rifle magazine while holding a knife [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Not that difficult, either. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I just think that holding a knife at the same time wouldbe just as extra thing to worry about and sure, a knife is good in CQB, but i doubt it will be useful having it out when you are in the open. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Not if your an expert at it. ;)

=== The Patriot ===

It actually resembles the Rocky Mountain Arms Patriot Pistol seen in movie "Congo" and "Soldier",but this one most probably tricked out from M16A1 upper receiver with it's buttstock removed combined with the Patiot's lower receiver,and were given the M231 PFW firing mode.

*I'll see if I can get a screencap; I think the old image that was here was a real-life mock-up ''made'' from an RMA Patriot to look like the MGS4 Patriot, but I seem to recall the 3 Patriot looked ''far'' closer to the M231. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

:It did. It even had the threaded handguard. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

But it can't be a M231 FPW, the game takes place in 1964 and the M231 FPW was not designed until 1979! It may look like the M231 FPW but it's probably just a custom XM16E1. As far as the full-auto only goes, maybe the developers thought it did not need single-fire because it's unlimited. On a side note, Konami must of took the term "tumble rounds" wrong. The first time you see the Boss fire the Patriot, you see the 5.56 bullets fly in slow-mo and they actually tumble end over end in the air! O_o

Listen, Konami doesn't know much about guns (Including the bullets as well), so it is most likely the wet-dream of they think a "special" M-16 carbine would look like. They don't know a lot about history either, dispite the game takes place in the 1960's. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 22:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

*The Lockheed M-21 wouldn't fly until December of 1964 or launch a drone until 1966. The Mi-24 first flew in 1969. The Bartini Beriev VVA-14 WiG is from the early 70s. I don't think being an anachronism stops it being an M231.
:Yeah I agree, but I kinda doubt Konami meant it to be a M231. I still think it's meant to be a custom M16 not a M231. Maybe it would help if you guys could get a good pic of a M231 and a good, clear close-up of the Patriot. (I could be wrong and if it is just like the M231, I think it should still be called a custom M16 on the page though.) Also, when were Beta-C magazines made.

=== What ammunition does Colonel Volgin use? ===

Colonel Volgin is often seen with belts of ammunition on his person, and also often seen electrically firing long cartridges of unknown type in his fists, using the electricity in his suit to trigger them. Can anyone identify the kind of bullet he's using?

In any case, such a thing would not work in real life. The chamber and barrel of a gun aren't just for show, and if you try to fire a cartridge without them there will be consequences. Even if you could electrically trigger the primer of a cartridge in your hand, the fact that your fingers are no substitute for an actual gun chamber means that the casing will try to expand uniformly, which means instead of propelling the bullet forward the casing in the powder will just explode in all directions and likely amputate your fingers. Furthermore, without a rifled barrel to spin-stabilize the bullet or to provide a single channel to focus the expanding gas formed by the ignited powder, a bullet fired from a "naked" cartridge will be flying neither straight nor far. Oh well, the "rule of cool" overrides other petty concerns like "plausibility" or "adherence to physical laws" in the MGS universe.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:20, 5 August 2011 (CDT)

:I'll have to check when I'm getting the screencaps, but I'd imagine they're probably DshK rounds, since you don't see any other weapons around Grozny Grad that use belted ammo. Also, come on, this is a man who can also punch a hole in a concrete wall and has electrical powers for absolutely no reason. He probably has magic invisible electro-barrels which he created through the sheer power of his bastardry. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:32, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

::lol, that's what I was thinking when I play through the game. :D If I remember right they might have been belts of 7.62x54mmR or 7.62x39mm rounds, the bullets looked too small to be .50 cals but that's just what I remember. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:52, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Yep, the only way it could ever work is if he carried small gun barrels between his fingers and inserted the rounds manually into those barrels before electrically triggering them. Even with that, he'd only get three shots per hand at most (not the long bursts he fires in his boss fight), he'd have to take a long time manually reinserting those rounds into those short barrels (unless it was something like a volley gun configuration arranged in a straight "W" pattern and he used something like straight moon clips to hold the rounds together during insertion), and he'd have to deal with the issues of incredible muzzle blast and flash, along with the drawbacks of very short rifling. Still, I hope you'll include shots of Volgin firing those rounds from his hands, as well as the scene when Volgin meets his end when all the ammunition in his belts cooks off.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:31, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I'll probably just put it down as "Volgin's hands" as a trivia note, a bit like the guy's hand in Shoot 'Em Up. And the rounds cooking off is the one time it's right, because even if it wouldn't fire the bullets, I can't see that not killing him. Of course, I can't see being struck by lightning not killing him either, but then we're talking about Volgin here. He's a large part of the reason this is my favourite game in the series, he's just so ''happy'' being evil and ridiculous. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:49, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

::Love this game too mate. Frankly, I love all four of the ''Solid'' games. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

=== Ocelot's 9x18 Makarov Cartridge ===

Now, he carries the round that caused a stovepipe on him in the first encounter with Snake all the way through the game up until the final showdown: my question is, what is that thing around the cartridge? He's able to make a 9x18 Makarov fire using a Colt Single Action Army in the final showdown. What are the *realistic* consequences of trying to fire a 9x18 Mak in a .45 Long Colt chambered firearm? -- Long Fallen 23:57, 12 January 2012 (CST)
:Since the rim of a 9x18mm Makarov is narrower than the neck of a .45 Long Colt, the consequence would be it would be kinda rattling around inside the cylinder and that it wouldn't be held in place for the hammer to strike the primer. Also spinning the cylinder would provide a fair chance of the nose of the Makarov round sliding foward and making it stick. Unless the "thing" is him having re-seated the bullet (or the entire round) inside a .45 LC case (in which case accuracy and muzzle velocity would both stink since the bullet wouldn't be as wide as the barrel, to the point you might not even kill someone at point-blank range) there's no way it would work at all. I think you're just not supposed to think about that bit too hard / at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:06, 13 January 2012 (CST)
::Ah, so it's just Kojima brand logic then, common sense alone pretty much hinted at what you explained. I just had to ask, since it's easily noticeable in the HD remake, and that the stovepiped cartridge had this whole big deal behind it. Also, no one seems to have pointed it out. Thanks :) -- Long Fallen 19:05, 13 January 2012 (CST)
:::The other big thing about it is that it visibly has a bullet in it even though it turns out, IIRC, to be a blank. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:19, 16 January 2012 (CST)
:The thing around the Makarov round is called a sabot, which is made to let certain firearms fire subcaliber ammunition (which means rounds that are narrower than the barrel's diameter). If it was the proper size, then it would at least let the Makarov round sit properly inside the SAA cylinder. However, because an SAA was clearly not designed for firing in that manner (and because the sabot around Ocelot's necklace round doesn't encompass the actual bullet), it wouldn't work. Not that it matters anyway--if you play to the end of the game and pick the right gun just before the end you'll understand why. Tank guns using APFSDS rounds use sabots as well, but in this case the barrel is smoothbore and the sabot encases the tungsten/depleted uranium dart which has fins and stabilizes itself without rifling. Shotgun sabot slugs fired from rifled shotgun barrels, however, have the plastic sabot in place to protect the barrel from damage (since those slugs are often made of steel), and the sabot engages the rifling to spin-stabilize the slugs instead. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:46, 14 January 2012 (CST)
::No, a sabot would go around the bullet, not around the case. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:40, 14 January 2012 (CST)

Even though I'm normally a stickler for detail, am I the only one who thinks this is a rather small complaint to make of a series with bipedal nuclear death tanks and portable cloaking devices? It's a shame this entry pre-dates the development of Nanomachines in story, otherwise we could just blame them, since they seem to be behind everything else.

I also need to work on my sarcasm, because that was too blunt. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:53, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:Being able to build a walking tank doesn't mean a 9mm bullet will sit well in a 12mm hole. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:23, 16 January 2012 (CST)

It's not the only problem; given what happens later with that bullet, I'm surprised it looks so . . . conventional? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 08:39, 16 January 2012 (CST)

Unless he started carrying a .45LC bullet and hoped everyone would just assume it was the 9x18mm one? That and the devs just got lazy. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:09, 16 January 2012 (CST)

:Still not a patch on how confusing and strange Snake and Sokolov's "Shagohod" conversation is if you remember they're both speaking in Russian the whole time:
*Sokolov praises Snake's Russian.
*Sokolov, speaking in English, representing Russian, then says "Shagohod" in Russian. Snake doesn't know it's a proper noun, yet hears it like it's a name.
*Snake also doesn't know what it means.
*Without changing languages, Sokolov explains it means "The Treading Behemoth." (a) No it doesn't and (b) if it did, since he's still speaking in Russian, he just told Snake "Shagohod means Shagohod."
:The translation is very silly about this, like Granin being the only Russian with a Russian accent. So, um, does that mean he's actually speaking Russian with a broad Texan accent or something? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:45, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Talk:Hitman: Absolution

2012-07-03T19:27:50Z

Alasdair:

in this screenshot you can see a rifle againts the wall, possibly a G3 and what looks like a USP in 47's hands

[http://i.imgur.com/lgn2H.jpg]

source here [http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/first-hitman--absolution-scree/1218840] [[User:Sike|Sike]] 07:18, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

:The rifles against the are FAL-type rifles, not G3s. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:06, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

I thought it was an FNC. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:52, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
:It's too big to be a FNC, the receiver and 20 round 7.62x51mm magazine are from a FAL-type rifle. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:06, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

::With the angle of the magazine against the receiver, it doesn't look like a FAL-type rifle. It does appear to have the straight magazine, implying 7.62 Nato. The stock looks a bit like a G36, and the upper receiver looks a bit like the AR-18, so I'm going to have to go out on a limb and suggest the AR-16, the 7.62 version of the AR-18. Probably totally wrong, but its worth a try. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 06:57, 21 June 2011 (CDT)
:::It's a FAL Para. Man it's so nice to be treated as a weapon-illiterate retard. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:15, 21 June 2011 (CDT)
:::Rebusdi, how stupid are you? The magazine is perpendicular to the receiver. The only reason the magazine looks slanted is because of the grip's slant. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 6:06, 2 July 2012
== Unknown SIG Sauer pistol ==

If the game is taking it's cues from the earlier games then the SIG Sauer will most likely end up being a P220. I can't wait for this game. It looks fantastic. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:32, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

Same here.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 20:45, 25 January 2012 (CST)

== H&K Pistol ==

After watching the 20 minute gameplay video of Absolution, I have some doubts that the pistol shown in the video (and trailer) is a USP. My main concern is that this pistol does not seem have a thumb safety (on either side), which to my knowledge all USPs have. I think this is might be a [[Heckler & Koch P2000]].

I've added two images for further discussion.

[[Image:Vlcsnap-2011-10-13-21h34m03s184.jpg|400px|thumb|none|]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-2011-10-13-21h32m32s7.jpg|400px|thumb|none|]]

:It's a Taurus PT 24/7, compare this to the screen caps. I'm changing it on the page right now.
:[[Image:Taurus 247.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Taurus 24/7-40BP - .40 S&W]]
:[[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:29, 14 October 2011 (CDT)

::I can definitely agree with this. Good job.--[[User:Southpaws|Southpaws]] 13:53, 14 October 2011 (CDT)
:::Edited the text a bit, added screenshot.--[[User:Southpaws|Southpaws]] 14:10, 14 October 2011 (CDT)

== Hardballers ==

Did anyone else notice that the hardballers seem to fire with the hammer up and no cycling?- Qtrain.

:it seems they to in a recent trailer[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzTHY3eiWVs&feature=g-u-u]--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 15:21, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

== Bartoli Custom ==

The Bartoli pistol looks more like the Tanfoglio or some other variant of CZ75. The "low" slide, shape of handle, grips, safety, etc. totally reminiscent of Tanfoglio/EAA Witness. And "Bartoli" sounds like something italian, so I think it's Tanfoglio, not a 1911.
Also compensator together with a sound suppressor looks oddly.

I agree. That's definitely not a 1911. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 23:04, 30 May 2012 (CDT)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIc0DSbNfyQ

There's an RPG and maybe an MP7 in there that I know of for sure. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 05:40, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

Yep seen them, also i think i spotted an m4a1 Carbine used by one of The Saints on the left, a H & K G36 and a H & K UMP heres a picture:

[[File:NunswithGuns.jpg]]

--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 06:46, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

Should the guns on the Nuns trailer be capped? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:00, 2 July 2012 (CDT)
:I do not think so, it's not part of the actual game. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:05, 3 July 2012 (CDT)
Sister Act 2: The Hard Times was not a commercial success.
== "Bartoli Custom" ==

Is it just me or is it more like a CZ75 SP01 than a custom 1911 based on the frame, safety and slide?--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 16:07, 2 July 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Mythbusters

2012-06-22T21:48:55Z

Alasdair:

.38 special bullets actually measure .357in OD.

==Silver Bullets==
:Silver bullets are more effective than lead against BIG GAME because silver is much harder than lead and does not deform as much on impact. This means that the silver bullet penetrates deeper into the target, which is why BIG GAME HUNTERS use silver bullets when hunting BIG GAME (they are much more likely to kill the animal on the first shot than they are with a lead round)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 19:40, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Cite your soucres, silver is too valuable to be used as a projectile
:I've met a few big game hunters, and that's what they told me they use (they only buy small batches though)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:48, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

::From Wikipedia, not 100% accurate all the time, but this sounds right to me.
"Contrary to the legend that a silver bullet is vastly superior over a lead bullet, the opposite is true. Lead is a soft metal, while silver is much harder. This gives lead two critical advantages over silver. First, as the bullet travels down the barrel of a modern gun, it takes advantage of rifling, which spins the bullet in order to provide a better trajectory. A soft lead bullet will grip the rifling, allowing it to spin. A hard silver bullet won't be able to grip the rifling, and therefore spin significantly less, if it spins at all. Also, when a lead bullet enters a body, the soft lead flattens out and tears a large hole through tissue. The silver bullet, on the other hand, retains its shape as it passes through a body and makes a much smaller hole, making it less likely to cause lethal bleeding or to strike a vital organ."

I know of Ballistic Silvertip bullets, which are apparently very effective. Though I do not know if they are pure silver or just a silver coloured metal. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 06:44, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
:I think I will believe the word of 3 honest men over that of wikipedia-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:23, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

----

I found this picture online. It's not seen in the show but still, uh, interesting. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 22:29, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Bond-mythbusters.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]

Yeah I think the poster is from one of the two "James Bond" specials they did. One of the specials had a rather interesting use of a Dillon Aero minigun. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:17, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

==Moved from main page==
===Remington 700===
* In one episode, to test the "Shooting through the scope" myth, Adam and Jamie, along with the range owner, tested shooting throught the scope with a .308 caliber Remington 700. If they really wanted to test it properly, they would have used a Winchester Model 70 .30-06 rifle, and would have known that both scopes must be perfectly aligned for the project to work. Also, Hathcock was much closer to his target, while they tested it at 100 yards and innaccurately at point blank.
:Hathcock said in his own words that he shot through a RIFLE scope, and pondered that if he had waited another second, the other sniper would have likely done the same to him, since to shoot through the scope requires both scopes to be aimed dead on to each other.
[[Image:Remington 700 BDL.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 700 .308 Winchester]]
They retested it with a .30-06 later.

Hathcock shot the enemy sniper through the old 3.5x scope mounted on his Mosin-Nagant, it said specifically in Marine Sniper. Hathcock also wondered if he would be able to take the rifle home as a souvenier, but he never saw it again.

They shot the wrong scope too-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Didn't Hathcock use an M14 or M40 as his rifle

No, GSgt Carlos Hathcock specificaly said he preferred the Winchester m70 .30-06 spgfld over the Remington m40a1 .308 winchester (.308 NATO) which was desighned to replace the Winchester m70s due to the fact that the m70 was just a "hunting rifle" per say and was not developed for usage as a "sniper rifle". And the "sniper" varient of the m14 was designated the m21. -Drh

I actually have read in one article that when Hathcock came back for his second tour that he was surprised to still see that the core was still using the the Model 70s and was expecting that they'd be replaced by the M40s.

Also just as a fact, the original M40s WERE designed as a hunting rifle. Heavy varmit barrels, plain finish on the stock and barrel. only real difference was the caliber. Also Hathcock did in fact use an M40 to obtain his last few kills in Vietnam.

as for the M21, he was known to use not only that rifle but also an M1D, however none of his famous shots were made with those rifles; the only famous shot he made without his trusty model 70 was his distance record setting kill which was made with a M2 machine gun with a specially developed mount for his scope

===Smith & Wesson SW99===
* Season 6, episode 1 "James Bond Special 1": Kari tries to pierce a propane tank with a [[Smith & Wesson SW99]] - and fails.
[[Image:Sw99 small.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson SW99 - 9mm]]
''I remember this episode. Kind of aggravated me when they misidentified it as Bond's gun.''
:''Correct. Though the S&W99 resembles the Walther P99, it certainly is NOT James Bond's gun. This show gets it wrong a lot regarding weapons (not the physics, but attributions and historical details). The proof of physics is good, their historical fact checking is bad.''

but its still chambered in 9mm same as the actual P99 is, unless Bond was using .40 S&W version of the P99, which is doubtful because its clearly a 9mm.

:''Regardless, it's NOT 007's weapon. Kind of like how a Norinco Type 56 isn't a genuine, true-blue Russian-produced AK-47.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 03:44, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The Walther P99 is now used by bond in the later movies. And the only difference between the Walther and the S&W are the markings and the cosmetics. Besides that they are basicly the same gun and the reason Mythbusters used a S&W is they the only version you can get new. S&W is now importing the Walther for the Germans and that is the same gun.

:Isn't a SW99 just a P99 assembled by S&W for Walther, who also import their PP series through S&W?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 19:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Subtle differences, like a slightly different shaped slide, rounded trigger guard, bigger backstrap and internals, but more or less, yes it is just a P99 with S&W logos [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Unknown .50 rifle ==

I don't know what it is but the .50 BMG rifle from "Drive to Survive" is definitely not an AR-50. An AR-50 is a conventional single shot bolt action whereas this gun is a bullpup shell holder action. It looks quite a lot like the [[LAR Grizzly Big-Bore]] but there are a few differences so not sure, could be a variant/custom. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:58, 2 December 2011 (CST)

The only difference that I see is what appears to be a trigger guard, for lack of a better term. I concur that it is definitely not an AR-50 and it really does look like the [[LAR Grizzly Big-Bore]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:35, 3 December 2011 (CST)

It's a Maadi Griffin Rifle I can't tell if it's an 89 or a 99. the handguard on the pistol grip is the dead Giveaway. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 23:10, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I have never heard of the Maadi Griffin Rifle... Couldn't find much information on it either but you are definitely right about the handguard. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:27, 3 December 2011 (CST)

== Clamp = Ransom Rest ==

I found out that the clamp they use to hold the pistols is called a "Ransom Rest", for example: [http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=10972/pid=4929/Product/MACHINE-REST?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&mc_id=10000&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c3466_a_7c164100000_d_164200025_d_10078| Here is an example].

--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:33, 6 December 2011 (CST)

== Whoops... ==

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/us/2011/12/07/dnt-cannonball-stunt-goes-wrong.kgo

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:35, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:Experience is the name we give to our mistakes. The Mythbusters have years of experience. . .--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 17:32, 8 December 2011 (CST)
::Failure is always an option. Having said that, I don't remember them ever damaging someone else's property, normally they just wreck their own stuff. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:38, 8 December 2011 (CST)
:::I'm just very glad no one was hurt or killed. :) What a freak accident. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:48, 8 December 2011 (CST)
::::Whatever else you say about these guys it is clear safety is paramount. Whenever they do anything involving firearms or explosives they are always at an approved range and qualified law enforcement/military personnel are there to supervise things. This is just another example of a freak accident. I don't know if any of you follow any of the Mythbusters on Twitter but it was obvious to me they were all horrified by what happened. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 21:52, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Captions. ==

So you guys may notice that my captions for the photos are a little mundane. Its hard to come up with something creative to say when im uploading so many pictures. PLEASE feel free to add your own, more interesting caption. However, please leave the S##E## at the end of the caption. Helps me remember what episodes I have already done. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:13, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Additional guns ==

A few more guns I found in promotional/production images that aren't on the main page yet. Will just put them here for now in case they aren't actually used in the show. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:23, 9 December 2011 (CST)

[[File:MB Kari Dragoon.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Kari with a [[Colt 1851 Navy]]]]
[[File:MP M82 & shotgun.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Kari with a [[Barrett M107]] and Tori with an unknown semi-automatic shotgun.]]

:The unknown semi-automatic shotgun is a Remington Model 1100 Tactical.
:[[Image:Remington1100Tactical.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Remington Model 1100 Tactical Shotgun - 12 gauge. This is a factory configuration for a tactical setup, featuring a high-capacity magazine tube and oversized charging handle]]
:- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 10:37, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Remington 870 VS Remington 1100 ==

So there are a number of shotguns used in the show but i think one of these might be mislabeled. We have the [[Remington 870]] in the James Bond Special Part 1.

[[file:MB-UShotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tori fires the shotgun into a propane tank. (S06E01)]]

Then we have the [[Remington Model 1100]] in "Mission impossible mask".
[[File:MP M82 & shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Kari with a [[Barrett M107]] and Tori with an unknown semi-automatic shotgun.]]

These guns look exceptionally similar and I think that they are almost definately the same gun. It just seems unlikely that they have 2 different remington, Semi automatic shotguns.
That being said, the [[Remington 870]] from "Dive to Survive" is definately different from the other two since it's a pump action.

I am in the process of screencaping "Mission Impossible mask" and will upload more pictures as i get them. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:17, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:They are different guns, the 870 is always a pump gun and the 1100 is semi auto. Don't know which episode it is from (Is it the mission impossible one?) but the promo image above is definitely a 1100 rather than an 870, can tell by the slot for the charging handle in the side of the receiver. Also, they are definitely two different guns as the top one has a normal barrel whereas the second has a raised rib. I think the current gun IDs are correct. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:30, 10 December 2011 (CST)

::And this is why i always defer to the experts. Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:37, 10 December 2011 (CST)

Now that you have some screencaps, neither of the two guns under the 1100 entry are a 1100. The one in the above promo pick with the Barrett is a 1100 (it has a ribbed barrel and no sights). The first gun in the 1100 section is a regular pump by the look of it (can't tell which, would assume 870). Second is (I think) a [[Benelli_M_Series_Super_90_Shotguns#Benelli_M4|Benelli M4]] with a 7 round tube. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:10, 10 December 2011 (CST)

In the episode they also briefly show the following shot of the gun collection. (They only end up using 1 of the shotguns for the test.)

[[image:MB-UnknownShotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot.]]

:The one on the left is a Benelli M4 with solid stock and 7 round tube and the one on the right is a Remington 870 with extended magazine tube and a muzzle brake/stand-off device. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:02, 10 December 2011 (CST)

::Any chance it's the Benelli M1 Super 90? (the same one used in S08E17, [[Mythbusters#Benelli_M1_Super_90|Shown Here]]?) Just checking before I re-arrange it.--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 18:21, 10 December 2011 (CST)
:::No, the M1 didn't have any iron sights wheras this has sight and a rail on the receiver. Also, that large endcap on the magazine tube is only on the M4. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:36, 10 December 2011 (CST)

::::Very good ID'ing. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:46, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== S&W Model 500 ==

Is there dialogue that confirms that the Model 500 is a .50 revolver, as it seems to be the exact same gun as the Model 460. Also, I dont think you can get a Model 500 with a 5" barrel. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:09, 12 December 2011 (CST)

:Wow, they really do look the same... Hmmmm. They definately said it was a .500 cal revolver (though this would not be the first time they've been wrong). I will need to go back and check. Also, the wikipedia page (pinch of salt here) for the S&W 500 does imply that it was used on Mythbusters. Let me do some digging and I will get back to you. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::It is possible that they called it a Model 500 but actually used a Model 460. If you ever get a look at the right side of the frame it will say either 460 or 500 which would clear it up for certain. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:38, 12 December 2011 (CST)

:::Gotcha. I will track down a copy of that episode to re-watch and let you know. Thanks for catching that. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:45, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::::Just found the episode in question, and they never say what model it is. The gunsmith does however say the muzzle velocity 2300 fps, which is the muzzle velocity of a Model 460. Also, a Model 460 is the optimum gun for the myth, as the pressure of the escaping gases is higher on a Model 460 than on a Model 500. Having said that, the gun shown in the animation at the start of the myth is the Model 500 shown below:
::::[[File:S&W M500 HIVIS.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 500 with HIVIS sights - .500 S&W Magnum]]
::::--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:09, 12 December 2011 (CST)
Pardon the crappy quality as is taken by print screening a streamed version, but here you can just see the frame markings. The 460 is absent (has either been physically polished off, photoshopped out or was never there for some reason) but the '''V''' is clearly visible, which is only there on the 5" barrelled Model 460. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:18, 12 December 2011 (CST)
[[File:MB 460.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

:I think we have different definitions of 'clearly visible'. I would go with you "if you squint '''really hard''' you can '''just''' make out the V. :-) But right you are. I will correct this shortly. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:54, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== Gun Collections ==

Anyone have any strong opinions on the 'Gun Collections' section at the bottom of the page? With the page filling up i was thinking of removing it but if people like it then i wont. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:38, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== Revolvers and Pistols ==

I've seen on some pages that the Pistols and Revolvers are separated. Anyone have strong feelings against doing this here? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:38, 16 December 2011 (CST)

:Well, what's the problem with it? It's a big page, and a single "Handguns" category might be quite large - [[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]]

::That was kind of my point. That's why I want to separate them. Wanted to see what others thought. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:18, 16 December 2011 (CST)
:::I agree, split it. there are a lot of handguns, and the only reason not to do it would be if there were only a couple of one type, which isn't the case here with a 10:16 revolver:pistol split. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:15, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Overhall Complete! ==

I have officially completed the overhaul of this page! I have watched every episode that (according to Wikipedia's summaries) contained a firearm. I will of course continue to update this as new episodes air. Thanks to everyone for the help, particularly [[User:Commando552|Comando552]]. Couldn't have done half of this without you. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:09, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== Split up by season. ==

So I am debating whether or not to split this page up by season. On the one hand, the page is getting really full. On the other hand, it I do split it up, each season's page will be rather small. Thoughts??? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:03, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
:It's not THAT big, especially for a show that's been on for nine years. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:09, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
::Agreed. My point is more that its large enough that it takes a while to load even with a good connection. Whenever you edit the page you get that little warning: '''''Warning:''' This page is 54 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections. ''
::I do agree with you that considering it has been on for going on 10 seasons, its not that big of a page. I just think it might be worth splitting up so the page doesn't get over crowded.
As they use many of the same guns for different experiments, there would be a lot of repeats. I think it is fine the way it is.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:18, 27 March 2012 (CDT)
:The page for ''[[The Unit]]'' needs to be broken up. The sixth largest page on the site, and only four seasons. It takes a very long time to load for me. According to the list of long pages, 28 pages are over the 54 KB threshold. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:52, 27 March 2012 (CDT)

== BAR ==

I've been trying to fill in the gaps, but I just can't find the BAR as described. I flipped through the entire MacGyver episode (and I assume there's only one) but I couldn't find it. (And doesn't MacGyver have an aversion to firearms in general?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 April 2012 (CDT)
:I believe there was more than 1 MacGyver episode. It's possible that the BAR was used by the other group to test an unrelated myth in a MacGyver episode? It's also possible that whoever added that bit about the BAR was simply mistaken. That was there before I redid the entire page. Also, thanks for filling in the gaps!!! REALLY appreciate it. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:04, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

== High Speed Camera ==

heres a quick video of some high speed camera moments from the newest episode i think

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/gunslingers-high-speed.htm --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 14:38, 16 June 2012 (CDT)

== Splitting up into different seasons ==

So the latest upisode (S10E12) was ALL about gun myths. I am 6 minutes into the 43 minute long episode and already they have used 8 different guns... Considering that this page is already almost double the length pages should be ''(Warning: This page is 57 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections)'', I am going to split this page up into its separate seasons. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:17, 21 June 2012 (CDT)

== Carlos curiosity ==

I'm just curious, did Carlos Hathcock ''actually'' shoot a Viet Cong sniper through the scope? It just seems incredibly unlikely. Is there any actual evidence of the shot, like eyewitnesses? Or the Viet Cong scope itself?

User talk:Alasdair

2012-06-09T17:53:57Z

Alasdair:

User talk:Alasdair

2012-05-18T06:42:43Z

Alasdair:

User talk:Alasdair

2012-05-18T06:41:54Z

Alasdair:

== Japanese Paratroopers ==
Yes the Japanese had paratroopers in WWII. Here is a link to Wikipedia. should at least satisfy you curiosity. As far as the suppressor goes in ''[[Dirty Harry]]''. I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's just a prop. Something mocked up for the movie for visual effect. Welcome to imfdb.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:43, 27 December 2011 (CST)

Thanks Jcordell. I'm finding it very good for things like research. Also, I can impress my friends and family with gun knowledge thanks to it. Like I was watching Shooter with my dad, and during the opening section, I just randomly said "That's an M40A5 there, Dad." He seemed impressed at first, but now he says it's a little weird. Is 13 too young to be a gun enthusiast? Lots of people keep telling me guns kill. They don't, do they? Surely humans make guns, and humans kill using them. On their own, guns are just lumps of metal, and if used correctly, provide security, peace and pleasure. Come on, back me up here guys. Anyway, I look forward to contributing to IMFDB pages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_marine_paratroopers_of_World_War_II

Oh I wouldn't worry about it. This is a debate that will never end. I'm 43 years old and I've been collecting firearms for almost thirty years. I've run into people who think it's weird and creepy that I have a gun collection and over thirty books about firearms. But I've also run into others who don't find it strange at all. As a police officer I know from first hand experience about the damage guns can do. But the damage is caused by people using those guns. The guns didn't do the damage by themselves. Cars kill people, rocks kill people, heck I was involved with a murder investigation several years ago in which the murder weapon was a bungee strap. I've seen several murders over the past 11 years in which the murder weapons were hammers, knives, a bathtub full of water and a can of gasoline and matches. People will always find ways to kill each other. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:33, 29 December 2011 (CST)

How true. Speaking as a normal citizen, keep up the good work as a cop. If anyone calls you creepy for collecting guns again, hey, why not just ignore their 911 calls? (Joke). Although, why did somebody murder somebody with a bungee strap? I can just assume it was the first thing to hand. As for the people will always find ways to kill, just look at what Robert Downey Jr said 'Peace means having a bigger stick than the other guy', which despite just being put in Iron Man for effect, is completely true. The Roman Empire, Alexander the Great and Atilla the Hun conquered and ruled large empires, and none of them used any guns at all. Although an actor once came to my school, speaking for a charity. Apparently, if we give less than 1% of what is spent on chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, small arms and so on and so on, we can cure world poverty. The request was refused. Come on countries of the world, that's not even 1%! Stop being so stingy-it's world poverty we're talking about here. It's kind of a big deal. Also, if you cure world poverty, way more people will be willing to join the army. Btw, the weirdest murder weapon ever is a toilet tank lid? No? How about a chess board? A corkscrew? A bowling ball? These are all real-life murder weapons. You must wonder what these people are taking. Anyway, thanks for making me feel slightly less embarrased to be a gun addict. And yes, I know embarressed is spelt wrong.

== Don't shut down Heckler & Koch U.K!! ==

Recently, I found out that Heckler & Koch have opened a factory in Britain. I was thrilled, until I found out that there is a 'shut down Heckler & Koch Great Britain.' campaign. This is the website for a protest against the factory being here. Come on! I mean, Britain is currently the worst country for gun lovers. If you're a gun enthusiast, you don't say "Hey, I love guns. All types. Hey, I know! I'll go to Britain! They don't hate guns there." No, you go to America. Americans, if you're reading, I'm in envy of your 'Every citizen has the right to bear arms' rule. I will put my hand on my heart now and say currently, I'd rather be American. Unless these rules are established in the U.K. Which they won't be. And these moaners aren't helping progress this. If you're British (or just don't like this idea, fine, I don't care) please comment here and say what you think. Are they right or wrong? If it's quite good, I'll re-post it on the campaigner's stupid webpage. And yes, I understand that some people may say "Just leave them alone." But if I do, then what will happen? Worst case scenario, another great gun company may die out, and I don't want to let that happen. In this financial climate, it's hard enough. Please comment. This is personal, and it means a lot to me.

I was unaware H&K had a factory in the UK, but I agree, don't shut them down! I think they should stay here as police use a few H&K weapons (armed police in the UK use the MP7A1) so it would be logical to set up shop here, so it saves on shipping them from Germany. And not too mention the fact that it seems cool that Britain has its very own gun factory.

- Fixer

Ta very much, Fixer. I've e-mailed it to them, so hopefully your words will impact upon their tiny, one-sided minds.
Alasdair

== WWII weapon discussion ==

Seeing as it was the last World War we had (and hopefully the last World War we'll ever have...erm, you rock, South Korea! We're sorry Kim-jung-il's dead too, but please don't use those weapons of mass destruction on us...), I have developed a strong interest in WWII weaponry. I hope that this can be a place for IMFDB members to come and talk about the weapons of World War Two (and One, if you want to. I'm not picky.). Have a good day!

== Army ==

Hey Alasdair, how's it going?

A while ago you asked me for advice on becoming a sniper within the Army and I was just wondering if you applied after?

Get back too me soon, mate :)
Cheers,

[[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

Thanks Fixer. It will help for when I decide to sign up a lot. Keep on fighting for Britain! Also, the SA80...unreliable? I mean, ll the experts say so, but as a soldier, how many jams or problems have you had? Alasdair.

== Search for women ==

I have a Scottish friend who (despite knowing nothing about guns) reckons that there are no women on this website. Now, despite not encountering any women during my time spent on here, I'm convinced there must be at least one. Not trying to turn this into a dating website or anything, it's just, if you are a woman and a member of this website, or just know a woman who is on here, please leave a message so I can prove my sexist pig of a friend wrong. Ta! Alasdair.

== Technical advice ==

I'm just wondering how to upload images, set up links properly and everything else you need to do to make a page. I have plans to create three pages, but all that's useless if I don't know how to. Much appreciated, Alasdair.
: 1) To upload image, you have to use "Upload file" function that is in the "Toolbox" group in the menu on the left side of the main page. Then in the "Source filename:" put the link to the image on your computer and in the "Summary:" - some info about the screenshot (at least the name of the movie) and "Category:Screenshot" (put it in [[ ]] instead "" to make the image belong to the category).
: 2) In order to format the proper link on the movie page use the next:
: "Image:NAME-OF-THE-IMAGE.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Here are some words about the screenshot - who is here and with which weapon.". Use [[ ]] instead of "" (I have to use "" in this example to make the code visible).
: You may open any existing movie page and look how is is formatted, maybe even copy wiki code from the existing page into the page you are creating and then replace the text and images with your own. Hope this will help you. With best wishes, [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 11:51, 21 April 2012 (CDT)

User:Alasdair

2012-05-06T07:12:37Z

Alasdair:

Hello. My name is Alasdair Goudie. I live in the U.K, which is pretty much the worst country for gun enthusiasts. On a plus side, less gun crime! I am currently writing a novel. The main weapons involved in it are a Caracal F in .357 SIG (I have yet to see a Caracal on IMFDB-shame), a IMI Tavor 5.56mm, and an Accuracy International AX338. So I'd say they're my fave guns. I have ambitions to be a gun shop owner, but I'm unsure about how much gun shop owners earn. I hope to learn much and give in return to IMFDB!

User talk:Alasdair

2012-04-21T12:36:36Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Skyfall

2012-04-10T07:53:51Z

Alasdair:

==Bond's main gun==

I know we can see that Bond has chosen the faithful PPK as his sidearm, but I would love too see a return of the P99. It is the use of it in Bond films that made it a preferred personal sidearm of choice [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

I want to see other Walter guns. There's been quite a few new ones since the last movie that came out. I'd love to see the PPQ in action [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:34, 2 February 2012 (CST)

I'd rather him use a SIG Sauer P226 as a bigger pistol like he did in QoS. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:58, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:Nah, I think he needs a more unique pistol, something to mark that only Bond would use. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:16, 2 February 2012 (CST)

same. maybe the SIG or he pulls a [[Collateral]] with the [[Heckler & Koch USP]]--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Is anyone else puzzled by how old and haggard Daniel Craig looks in that picture? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:41, 2 February 2012 (CST)

I still have never liked the new Bond. All the Bonds before Craig were the classic fictional "spy" with all the charms and awesomeness that all women want him and men want to be him. I know REAL spies don't usually act like the classic Bond fashion with super gadgets and all but that's why we love him, not for the realism but for the fantasy it really is. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:16, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Daniel Craig does look older in this picture. I would rather see the new PPS as his sidearm because it's simply an evolution thing. From PPK to P5 to P99, Bond has usually always used a Walther. To have him go back to the PPK, while is nice to see, is not something that make sense this day in age.

:Actually in the Jeffrey Deaver Bond novel "Carte Blanche" Bond does use the Walther PPS [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 17:35, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Daniel Craig has not aged well in my opinion. In Layer Cake when he was early thirties, he looked quite young. When I saw the promo picture for Skyfall, I couldn't believe it was him for a second. I would have liked Bond to sport a P22 or PK380 in Skyfall, but as is life :( [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

Charon68, that is what I was referring to the book. --[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 17:43, 2 February 2012 (CST)

If bond is former SAS soldier, as suggested in Casino Royale, then he would have used a PPK so is a realistic choice. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Personally though I had thought the PPK was withdrawn from service after the attempted kidnapping of Princess Margaret in 1974. As cool as the thing looks the cartridge is woefully underpowered and would barely make a scratch with modern body armor. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 18:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:That incident was with the police Royalty Protection branch, and at that point the PPK was carried as a primary weapon. It wasn't a power issue, the gun jammed when the protection officer tried to return fire, and was immediately and totally withdrawn by the police due to this freak occurrence. It is still used (or was still used until relatively recently) by the SAS as an ankle gun during close protection work or for undercover work (such as in Northern Ireland), and I think there is also a hidden pocket specifically for the PPK in the SAS CRW coveralls. Main pistols used by SAS are the P226 and P228. Personally I would like to see bond with a P228, or its successor the P229 SAS. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:30, 2 February 2012 (CST)
::On the Casino Royale website it says that Bond is former SBS. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:59, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:::Personally I always thought a worth successor to the PPK would have been the HK P7. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 20:19, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:::Bond being ex-UKSF has been canon since at least ''[[Tomorrow Never Dies]]''; Bond can be seen wearing a pair of UKSF Parachute wings on the sleeve of his No.1C uniform, as in [[:File:Usairforce.jpg|This shot]]. Plus he uses a P7 in at least one of the novels. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:34, 3 February 2012 (CST)

I think we're torn on the ideal of a the Bond gun as being something small and still powerful to what is more practical. In a real sense, Bond should always be carrying full size guns or larger guns because of the situation. Why a small gun when his outfit could offer concealment on larger frame weapons and with modern day suppressors, you can't say a small gun suppresses better. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)

In the novels written by Raymond Benson, Bond would carry a PPK if he needed concealment with a suppressor and he would keep a P99 in his cars or when he was in a tactical situation where he needed more firepower. That was something that was used in the game Bloodstone and would be a nice medium. --[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 22:07, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Bond is a Naval Commmander, and personally I would like him to use a P228, as it is compact enough for undercover work and has a large enough magazine (13 rounds in 9mm) to see him through a gunfight --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 12:54, 5 February 2012 (CST).

The p228 is not bond 007 style. The thing is that the PPK is the classic bond gun, but with a magazine size of at max 8 rounds, it is not very good choice. He could use one of two pistols: the P226 Navy in .40 S&W (since he is an naval commander) or a usp compact in 9 mil. The usp compact is good for concealment and it offers a larger magazine (13 rounds) compared to the ppk's 8.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 15:28, 5 February 2012 (CST)
:"he P226 Navy in .40 S&W (since he is an naval commander)" Wrong Navy, plus the 226 Navy is (I believe) only chambered in 9mm NATO. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:21, 5 February 2012 (CST)

If anything the PPK is a good backup gun nothing else. I personally wouldn't even consider using a PPK as my primary even if I was using a compact gun just because their is simply better compact guns with better stopping power then the PPK.

Guys, we're missing the point. It doesn't matter what guns are better choices than a PPK. Most guns out there are. Bond may be a former SBS or SAS or whatever, but he NEEDS to carry a Walther. For 50 years, he has carried three different guns, all Walther. I am in huge favor of him carrying both a P99 and a PPK depending on the situation, although I would probably get over it if he replaced the PPK with a PPS. I think a lot of people want to see Bond carry guns that THEY like, but don't really fit Bond's persona. All the guns suggested are combat sidearms, while Bond only needs something to serve for a CCW. If he needs more firepower, there is the P99.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:44, 5 February 2012 (CST)

I totally agree with JazzBlackBelt. The P99 is the best for Bond and the PPK makes for a great backup gun.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 22:25, 5 February 2012 (CST)

If they want to be really faithful, they should give him back the Beretta pocket pistol he carried in the first few novels. But now I'm being overly sarcastic and need to calm down. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:30, 6 February 2012 (CST)

While I agree that there are better choices then a PPK, I wouldn't want to step in front of one in the hands of a professional like Daniel Craig's Bond. The PPK is iconic and identified with Bond as much as the dinner suit and the Aston Martin; it was chosen by Fleming because its name "rolled off the tongue" and for its sleek looks. The producers did a good job in Quantum of Solace mixing up the traditional (PPK) with the more modern (P226). And since I am new to this site, if someone could tell me how to leave a signature, I would appreciate it :)
Thanks Funkychinaman for the signature info!--[[User:SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon|SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon]] 22:58, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

I don't know if you folks have seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuO34MDezzU
It looks like folks have been discussing the gun Bond should carry for 50 years. [[User:APS221|APS221]] 00:47, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

They should follow Jeffery Deaver's advice and choose the gun from the book Carte Blanche, the book that was going to be adapted into this film originally. Shame it's not going to be-the gun's a Walther PPS .40 S&W. It betters the PPK in calibers and capacity (if you either have an extended magazine or choose 9mm instead of .40 calibre.), and matches it exactly on size. Also, I believe Bond should have a larger handgun inside his vehicle and for use on covert operations. The PP9, while Bond has been using it before and it has a good capacity, is outdated and still a 9mm. I believe it should be a full-sized handgun, still a Walther, maybe the P22 .22 LR, as it is quieter suppressed than the 9mm PP9. I'm not sure weather .22 LR is more or less powerful than 9mm though...anyone? As for the Bond gun debating, it's never going to stop completely. If Bond books and films carry on being made for hundreds more years, better and more concealable guns in better calibers with better suppressors will become available, and people like us will always disagree with the choice, unless the people in charge of firearms choosing at the Bond films come across this site and choose what we say, which is unlikely. The PPK, whilst good in it's day, is severly outdated (it's nearly twice as old as the actor holding it!), the caliber is ineffective compared to the .40 S&W at penetration and damage, and the PPS can be suppressed just as effectively with modern suppressor technology, compared to the .380 ACP with WWII suppressor technology, and is the same size exactly-Walther claim so themselves. However, the big cheeses at the Bond office just see the PPK not as ineffective, or underpowered, or old, but as a symbol of Bond. I think we may have to put up with it for many years to come, until either they see some sense or are fired. I'm sure Boothroyd's turning in his grave. Alasdair.

The thing with Bond is that he needs to use a gun with decent size caliber. If I would choose a new gun for Bond, I would choose the Kimber Warrior, which is meant for marksmen like Bond. Glocks are good, but are not suited for Bond. The Walther P99 as of the guns Bond has used is the best one that he has used. --[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 10:31, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

I want to see him with a PPS or something like that. The PPK is nice, but this isn't Ian Flemming's bond anymore. He is a more realistic action hero. A PPS in a IWB holster with a P99 or PPQ in his car. I like Craig as Bond because he is more gritty and honestly, less of a man whore. I have experience with a PPS and I think Bond would too.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 11:25, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm a huge fan of the Walther, and i would love to see him use his P99 again, i got a replica of it myself and it's really good. Especially is a Vega Holster!

In the book "Devil May Care", Bond looses his PPK frequently and is mostly seen using, of all things an [[M1911]]. That would be pretty cool. [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]] 14:55, 8 April 2012 (EST)

While I maintain my opinion that the PPK, properly supplemented at appropriate times like in Quantum, is the only gun for Bond, I am sympathetic to the argument that he should be equipped with a more modern weapon. Therefore, I nominate the new SIG SAUER P224. It is of an appropriate size (unlike the Walther P99), has the proven professional pedigree of the P220/226 line, is of high quality (unlike the poor reputation-dogged Walther), isn’t the everyone’s gun the GLOCK is, and has some style and panache that the PPS, GLOCK, USP, and their polymer look-alikes lack. I would prefer 9mm for an agent operating worldwide, but the P224 is available in .40 and .357 SIG (now that’s a serious caliber). --[[User:SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon|SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon]] 23:01, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

:Of course the big problem with a non-Walther gun is that apparently the franchise has a fairly nice sponsorship deal going with Carl Walther GmbH. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:09, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

If the franchise has a big sponsorship with Walther, then why don't Walther make a gun especially designed for James Bond? It could be tailored to meet his needs (suggestions as to what they might be, please), and then they could release it for sale to the public. They'd make a fortune by selling it to James Bond fans, and serious shooters if it was very good. Q could make a big deal in-film about how good it is, and how Walther have made it especially for him. Good idea? Alasdair.

== What Happened??? ==

In [[Casino Royale(2006)]], Bond had good trigger discipline and kept good two handed grips on his guns, an now we have shots of him in a footchase pointing his PPK in front of him with his finger on the trigger... call me a safety Nazi but I expect better from a trained agent....--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 11:35, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

You mean the footchase at Tower Hill? Maybe, and correct me if i'm wrong he just shot someone....

Talk:Skyfall

2012-04-08T07:46:43Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Skyfall

2012-04-08T07:40:31Z

Alasdair:

==Bond's main gun==

I know we can see that Bond has chosen the faithful PPK as his sidearm, but I would love too see a return of the P99. It is the use of it in Bond films that made it a preferred personal sidearm of choice [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

I want to see other Walter guns. There's been quite a few new ones since the last movie that came out. I'd love to see the PPQ in action [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:34, 2 February 2012 (CST)

I'd rather him use a SIG Sauer P226 as a bigger pistol like he did in QoS. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:58, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:Nah, I think he needs a more unique pistol, something to mark that only Bond would use. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:16, 2 February 2012 (CST)

same. maybe the SIG or he pulls a [[Collateral]] with the [[Heckler & Koch USP]]--[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Is anyone else puzzled by how old and haggard Daniel Craig looks in that picture? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:41, 2 February 2012 (CST)

I still have never liked the new Bond. All the Bonds before Craig were the classic fictional "spy" with all the charms and awesomeness that all women want him and men want to be him. I know REAL spies don't usually act like the classic Bond fashion with super gadgets and all but that's why we love him, not for the realism but for the fantasy it really is. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:16, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Daniel Craig does look older in this picture. I would rather see the new PPS as his sidearm because it's simply an evolution thing. From PPK to P5 to P99, Bond has usually always used a Walther. To have him go back to the PPK, while is nice to see, is not something that make sense this day in age.

:Actually in the Jeffrey Deaver Bond novel "Carte Blanche" Bond does use the Walther PPS [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 17:35, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Daniel Craig has not aged well in my opinion. In Layer Cake when he was early thirties, he looked quite young. When I saw the promo picture for Skyfall, I couldn't believe it was him for a second. I would have liked Bond to sport a P22 or PK380 in Skyfall, but as is life :( [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

Charon68, that is what I was referring to the book. --[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 17:43, 2 February 2012 (CST)

If bond is former SAS soldier, as suggested in Casino Royale, then he would have used a PPK so is a realistic choice. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:04, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Personally though I had thought the PPK was withdrawn from service after the attempted kidnapping of Princess Margaret in 1974. As cool as the thing looks the cartridge is woefully underpowered and would barely make a scratch with modern body armor. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 18:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:That incident was with the police Royalty Protection branch, and at that point the PPK was carried as a primary weapon. It wasn't a power issue, the gun jammed when the protection officer tried to return fire, and was immediately and totally withdrawn by the police due to this freak occurrence. It is still used (or was still used until relatively recently) by the SAS as an ankle gun during close protection work or for undercover work (such as in Northern Ireland), and I think there is also a hidden pocket specifically for the PPK in the SAS CRW coveralls. Main pistols used by SAS are the P226 and P228. Personally I would like to see bond with a P228, or its successor the P229 SAS. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:30, 2 February 2012 (CST)
::On the Casino Royale website it says that Bond is former SBS. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:59, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:::Personally I always thought a worth successor to the PPK would have been the HK P7. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 20:19, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:::Bond being ex-UKSF has been canon since at least ''[[Tomorrow Never Dies]]''; Bond can be seen wearing a pair of UKSF Parachute wings on the sleeve of his No.1C uniform, as in [[:File:Usairforce.jpg|This shot]]. Plus he uses a P7 in at least one of the novels. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:34, 3 February 2012 (CST)

I think we're torn on the ideal of a the Bond gun as being something small and still powerful to what is more practical. In a real sense, Bond should always be carrying full size guns or larger guns because of the situation. Why a small gun when his outfit could offer concealment on larger frame weapons and with modern day suppressors, you can't say a small gun suppresses better. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)

In the novels written by Raymond Benson, Bond would carry a PPK if he needed concealment with a suppressor and he would keep a P99 in his cars or when he was in a tactical situation where he needed more firepower. That was something that was used in the game Bloodstone and would be a nice medium. --[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 22:07, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Bond is a Naval Commmander, and personally I would like him to use a P228, as it is compact enough for undercover work and has a large enough magazine (13 rounds in 9mm) to see him through a gunfight --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 12:54, 5 February 2012 (CST).

The p228 is not bond 007 style. The thing is that the PPK is the classic bond gun, but with a magazine size of at max 8 rounds, it is not very good choice. He could use one of two pistols: the P226 Navy in .40 S&W (since he is an naval commander) or a usp compact in 9 mil. The usp compact is good for concealment and it offers a larger magazine (13 rounds) compared to the ppk's 8.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 15:28, 5 February 2012 (CST)
:"he P226 Navy in .40 S&W (since he is an naval commander)" Wrong Navy, plus the 226 Navy is (I believe) only chambered in 9mm NATO. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:21, 5 February 2012 (CST)

If anything the PPK is a good backup gun nothing else. I personally wouldn't even consider using a PPK as my primary even if I was using a compact gun just because their is simply better compact guns with better stopping power then the PPK.

Guys, we're missing the point. It doesn't matter what guns are better choices than a PPK. Most guns out there are. Bond may be a former SBS or SAS or whatever, but he NEEDS to carry a Walther. For 50 years, he has carried three different guns, all Walther. I am in huge favor of him carrying both a P99 and a PPK depending on the situation, although I would probably get over it if he replaced the PPK with a PPS. I think a lot of people want to see Bond carry guns that THEY like, but don't really fit Bond's persona. All the guns suggested are combat sidearms, while Bond only needs something to serve for a CCW. If he needs more firepower, there is the P99.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:44, 5 February 2012 (CST)

I totally agree with JazzBlackBelt. The P99 is the best for Bond and the PPK makes for a great backup gun.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 22:25, 5 February 2012 (CST)

If they want to be really faithful, they should give him back the Beretta pocket pistol he carried in the first few novels. But now I'm being overly sarcastic and need to calm down. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:30, 6 February 2012 (CST)

While I agree that there are better choices then a PPK, I wouldn't want to step in front of one in the hands of a professional like Daniel Craig's Bond. The PPK is iconic and identified with Bond as much as the dinner suit and the Aston Martin; it was chosen by Fleming because its name "rolled off the tongue" and for its sleek looks. The producers did a good job in Quantum of Solace mixing up the traditional (PPK) with the more modern (P226). And since I am new to this site, if someone could tell me how to leave a signature, I would appreciate it :)
Thanks Funkychinaman for the signature info!--[[User:SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon|SIG 1911 A Professional's Weapon]] 22:58, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

I don't know if you folks have seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuO34MDezzU
It looks like folks have been discussing the gun Bond should carry for 50 years. [[User:APS221|APS221]] 00:47, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

They should follow Jeffery Deaver's advice and choose the gun from the book Carte Blanche, the book that was going to be adapted into this film originally. Shame it's not going to be-the gun's a Walther PPS .40 S&W. It betters the PPK in calibers and capacity (if you either have an extended magazine or choose 9mm instead of .40 calibre.), and matches it exactly on size. Also, I believe Bond should have a larger handgun inside his vehicle and for use on covert operations. The PP9, while Bond has been using it before and it has a good capacity, is outdated and still a 9mm. I believe it should be a full-sized handgun, perhaps a Glock, chambered in .357 SIG (and yes, you can get effective .357 SIG suppressors). As for the Bond gun debating, it's never going to stop completely. If Bond books and films carry on being made for hundreds more years, better and more concealable guns in better calibers with better suppressors will become available, and people like us will always disagree with the choice, unless the people in charge of firearms choosing at the Bond films come across this site. The PPK, whilst good in it's day, is severly outdated (it's nearly twice as old as the actor holding it!), the caliber is ineffective compared to the .40 S&W at penetration and damage, and the PPS can be suppressed just as effectively with modern suppressor technology, compared to the .380 ACP with WWII technology, and is the same size exactly-Walther claim so themselves. However, the big cheeses at the Bond office just see the PPK not as ineffective, or underpowered, or old, but as a symbol of Bond. I think we may have to put up with it for many years to come, until either they see some sense or are fired. I'm sure Boothroyd's turning in his grave. Alasdair.

Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

2012-04-07T20:05:21Z

Alasdair:

=Unknowns=
==Unknown revolver==
[[Image:MPFS_Unknown_01.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Thieves with unknown revolvers in the "Stolen Newsreader" sketch. ("How to Recognise Different Types of Trees From Quite a Long Way Away?" S01E03)]]
[[Image:MPFS_Unknown_02.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Brian Equator ([[John Cleese]]) shoots Victor ([[Graham Chapman]]) with an unknown revolver in "The Visitors" sketch. ("The Ant, an Introduction" S01E09)]]
[[Webley Mk V]]? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:59, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

I do not know. Judging by the rest of the handguns used in the show, probably a Webley or Enfield variant. And now for something completely different... Alasdair. P.S: I'd like it if everyone finished their comments on this page with 'And now for something completely different...' you know, as a tribute.
:No no, we shan't have that, that would be much too silly, too silly! --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:55, 2 April 2012 (CDT)
Yes, because Monty Python is the height of realism. Of course jokes can kill, and dentists gather classified information in bookshops, and blamanges can turn people into scotsman in an attempt to win Wimbledon. And now for something completely different... Alasdair. (Oh, and I think the revolver in the second picture is a Webley Mk I. Or Mk V, or an Enfield No. 2 snub nose.)
:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE&t=5m12s Come on], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0f2aFhZ3Uk&t=2m59s did we not get] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIHF4rVTK4E&t=3m8s that reference?] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:39, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
Apologies. I'm fairly new to Python, however I do love the animations. Me and my dad keep having debates about which is better: Monty Python or Fawlty Towers. What do you guys think? And now for something completely different... ''No, stop saying '''and now for something completely different. It's far too silly.''' Alasdair. (Ah, well. Always look on the bright side of life, eh?)

Talk:Smith & Wesson Model 500

2012-04-05T17:56:23Z

Alasdair:

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:Kac warzone revolver.jpg|none|thumb|400px|The custom black version of the Smith & Wesson Model 500 with a suppressed black barrel, a Knight's Armament RIS setup, flashlight, and laser sight - .500 S&W Magnum was carried by Frank Castle during the final confrontation from ''[[Punisher: War Zone]]''.]]
[[Image:IMG 1305.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Two custom S&W Model 500s with customized barrel shrouds revolvers - .500 S&W Magnum were built for ''[[The Spirit]]''.]]
[[File:S&W M500 HIVIS.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Smith & Wesson Model 500 with HIVIS sights - .500 S&W Magnum]]

== .500 S&W Magnum ==

Is the Bullet specificly made the this Gun and how much bigger is it compared to say the .357 Magnum.

Basically a .357 mag is pushing a 158gr to a 180gr bullet...but the .500 S&W push anything from a 300gr to a 500gr bullet, and someone is even making a 702gr bullet for it...just crazy big but not as good ballistically as a .460 S&W.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:03, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

==The Punisher==
When did Tom Jane use it? I know Ray Stevenson did in War Zone, but I don't remember it in the first one. -SasquatchJim.

He provided the voice in the videogame. That's the only time he "used" it. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah, got it. -SJ

== Question ==
They say the S&W 500 is for hunters who need something powerful enough as a backup weapon in a real emergency... but what kind of emergency would a hunter use the S&W 500 for? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 13:18, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

In the event that your out bow hunting and a bear happens upon you through the thicket. My source? Personal experience. Some would call it overkill, but when a bear attack is a reality and a good possibility in the neck of the woods your hunting in, you want the biggest self defense weapon your money can buy. - Mikey

:A bear or any predator charging at you when you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 14:14, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

As Michael Bane has said about other guns, "it's perfect for when the velociraptors come right through your front window." -SasquatchJim.

So... in Michael Bane's mindset, we are now hunting dinosaurs when we use the S&W 500? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 07:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, to be fair, he was talking about a Howdah pistol when he said the dinosaur line. But, the S&W seems like it would fit the bill for a sidearm as well. -SJ

== Missing links ==

Your missing Machete, Transporter 3, and lock n' load with R. Lee Ermy.

:Well, why can't YOU put them in? --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 08:35, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

== Why? ==

Why on earth do guns this powerful and expensive exist? I am a person completely against revolvers, yes, but that's not the point. The Desert Eagle falls into this category too. Who on earth buys the world's most powerful handgun? Is it just an expensive way for men to increase their masculinity? Realistically, you buy a gun for defense, or if you're in the military. No ordinary civilian will ever buy this, it's too expensive, large and overpowered. As for the military, both the gun itself and the ammunition are far too expensive, and it can't mount a suppressor or weapon light. And why oh why do Treyarch keep putting the Deagle in CoD? No realistic military will ever use one of them, and while I understand CoD doesn't keep realism very high on the priority list, it should at least understand that military sidearms these days are all 9mm semi-automatics, that are suppressor adaptable, and not freaking hand cannons. Why do gun makers constantly try and outdo each other in this stupid, expensive, impractical game? Can someone give me one good reason why guns like this exist, please? Alasdair.
:The term is "range toy." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:53, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
::Not all guns are used by the military/police or for home defence. One of the main uses for both the Desert Eagle and the Model 500 is for hunting large game. I think they are also used for long range silhouette shooting, and short barrel versions of the Model 500 are used for self defence against dangerous animals such as bears. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:25, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
Have you ever shot one of these weapons? I love my Desert Eagle and it so much fun to shoot.

Who wrote the above statement? Name, seriously. Anyway, I don't want a gun that's fun to shoot, I want one that will save my life, and a Deagle stands a high chance of stove piping, and also a higher chance of killing, so I'll get arrested. As for the bear thing, fine in the Rockies of somewhere like that, but I live in Scotland. And I did once shoot a .44 Magnum S&W 29, but the severe recoil combined with my puny arms broke my nose. In America, you have your range toys. But in Britain, we believe in practicality over power. Hey, everyone's entitled to their own beliefs. Alasdair.

:Not every gun you own has to be for self defence. Being English, none of the guns I own are for self defence, the majority are for sport (in other words, fun). I don't think the target market of the Model 500 and Desert Eagle is people who want one gun for home defence (I also don't think they had the Scottish consumer in mind either). As to your point about about a gun being a poor choice for self defence if it is more likely to kill someone, that is moronic. If you are in a country where it is legal to own a gun for home defence (not Britain for example) and a situation arises where you are justified in using it you don't want to have to be shooting out someone's kneecaps with .22s, you should be shooting to kill in order to save your own life. Just curious, were you shooting the Model 29 in Scotland? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:41, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

Saying that a gun that's more likely to kill someone is less suited to home defense, in countries where you can't kill someone even if
they shoot at you first is true. A 9mm is best suited to this in the U.K, as it will go straight through and wound, not kill unless you aim directly at the head. In the U.S.A, fine, but can we please keep this argument within the severe U.K gun laws and stupid legal system? And no, the 29 was fired at a shooting range. I'm not yet old enough to own a firearm legally. And they might have had the Scottish market in mind...there's some pretty aggressive wildlife here. I do see your point, though. All I'm saying is guns like this serve little practical purpose. There's no need to insult my perfectly valid opinion of the home defense, though. I've tried to pick up what I can, but my parents are very restrictive and do not support this hobby of mine. I hope to have my eyes opened more, and to open more people's eyes in future. Alasdair.

Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5

2012-04-05T16:58:38Z

Alasdair:

==Other Variants or incarnations of the MP5==
[[Image:EODMP5A3rubberprop.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with mounted [[M203 grenade launcher]] 40mm as used by [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]'s character Jericho Cane in the film ''[[End of Days]]''.]]
[[Image:H&K 94.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch 94 carbine with front pistol grip & barrel jacket]]
[[Image:MP5KA42.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5KA4 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K_MP54.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP54 earliest prototype of the H&K MP5 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:P00634.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used prop Heckler & Koch MP5A3 - 9x19mm. This non-firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The gun is constructed of rubber and was used during parts of the barge sequence where the live firing gun was unecessary. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00634&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:P00646.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used prop Heckler & Koch SP89 - 9x19mm. This non-firing plastic prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The replica SP89 was used as a stand in for the virtually identical live firing MP5K used earlier in the sequence and was used onscreen when Winter throws the gun away. The tip was slightly damaged during the throw and is in otherwise good condition. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00646&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[File:HKMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with Surefire Weaponlight and "SD"-style stock]]
[[Image:DayMP5K.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daisy Airsoft Model 14 Heckler & Koch MP5K - 9x19mm. One of the first ASG.]]
[[Image:HK_MP5SD.png|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 with a integrated suppressor - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5K-UMP.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW fitted with a [[UMP]]-style stock - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5SD3-with2-round-burst.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 with additional 2-round burst fire mode. (Note that this weapon '''is not''' an MP5SD6, the SD6 '''must''' feature the 3-round burst option. This trigger group is officially called "2-round burst" by H&K.)]]
[[Image:KACMP5RSRAIL.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5F with Knight's Armament Company rail system - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:JG MP5 RAS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''Airsoft''' MP5-RAS by Jing Gong - 6mm BB]]
[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguard removed - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K-MP5Ksuitcase.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K in trademark Heckler & Koch suitcase - 9x19mm]]
[[File:SerenityMP5K.jpg |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K used in ''[[Serenity]]'' - version with SEF Plastic Trigger Pack and West German 'Waffle pattern' stick magazine - 9x19mm. The LED sight, unfortunately, could not be found to mount on the weapon for the photograph.]]
[[Image:MP5SFA3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SFA3 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5SD1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD1 - 9x19mm]]

==Early MP5 gone==

As you can tell, I deleted the section on early MP5s, for two reasons:

(1.) It's unlikely early MP5s appear in movies or TV, simply because those models are quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany. If you go to HKPRO's MP5 page, you can see what the earliest MP5s looked like.
(2.) The pictures were not early MP5s (one was an MP5A2 taken by MPM, which has since been moved to the MP5A2 section, the other was an A3 with a straight mag and older convex-style buttplate).

If anyone wants to restore it, please just copy and paste the code from an earlier revision; I made some other revisions that are important to keep. Don't undo all of my recent edits. Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
: I've never seen a movie with the original HK54s, so I agree. If someone did want to put it on though, they have it on World Guns. -GM
:: I restored it, for three reasons: 1. I strongly disagree with the conclusion that a weapon has to be common to deserve inclusion. If that was a valid criterion a considerable number of the gun articles/sections on this site never would've been created. 2. The MP-54 is in [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]], so what if it's a video game, this site covers those too. 3. People editing ''that'' article take one look at "MP-54" and assume it's a typo, because even if they do their research by looking at ''this'' article, they find no such weapon and so conclude that it doesn't exist. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 13:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I checked your page for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. That doesn't look to me like an MP-54; it looks more like a regular MP5A3 with an open front sight. Such sights do exist as after-market accessories for the MP5. However, seeing as it's a game, it could also just be an artistic decision made by the gun modeler. But it's definitely not supposed to be an MP-54; notice it has the wrong rear sight and hand guards for the -54. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

The page for [[Biggles: Adventures in Time]] (1986) mentions "old spec MP5's with staight magazines"; whether they're actual vintage early MP5s, I know not. British television and film productions might well use these guns. I worry about the deletion of the early section; it's going to clumsy to put it back when someone spots an early MP5, and someone ''will'' spot an early MP5 at some point. One will appear in the background of ''[[The Professionals]]'' or ''[[Who Dares Wins]]''; and although it may be true that they are "quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany", this database doesn't exclude German television programmes. I understand that German television has historically not been too keen on guns, but there must have been German cop dramas and television films and indeed theatrical films in the 1970s. -[[User:Ashley Pomeroy|Ashley Pomeroy]] 18:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

==Why not put the 'fake' MP5s on the HK94 section?==
It technically runs counter to common practice on IMFDB by putting the gun in the section of the weapon it's 'impersonating' rather than the real section. Case in point. We put fake M16A2s (that are A1s with A2 handguards) in the M16A1 section ... NOT the M16A2 section, even though that is the gun it is impersonating. Why don't we put the appearances of the C&C HK94s in the HK94 section? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

:Hmmm, I didn't notice that this wasn't being done. But yes, I agree, all C&C HK94s impersonating MP5s should go in the HK94 section. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:Pay no attention to what I just edited out, I was being stupid.-protoAuthor

== Heckler & Koch MP5K's with the foregrips removed ==

What is the point of MP5K's with the fore grips removed appearing in movies? you don't have a grip, and could burn you hand if you have been shooting
:What? Speak english for me please.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Better?
:Yes. On topic, they are used as if they are machine pistols. Look at the Third Matrix movie page on this site. They are used in that movie. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ on the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

"Used as if they are machine pistols"? That would still apply even if the MP5Ks had foregrips but were being dual-wielded like in those scenes. In fact, MP5Ks (as opposed to MP5K-PDWs) ''are'' machine pistols, just relatively bulky ones (compared to models like the Glock 18) due to their lack of a buttstock (like the M93 Raffica). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:31, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

== SP-10 / MP-10 is also the PXP-10 ==

Coharie Arms is the current producer of the SP-10 / MP-10 and its model is now designated as the PXP-10 (although the MP-10 designation is still in effect for fully automatic builds). Their are some slight changes since the SP-10 production. Specifically, the texturing was altered and mounting screws were added on the lower foregrip. Additionally, the tint of the plastic may have changed as well. Coharie has recently announced that the tooling is up for sale.

== U.S. Police MP5 stocks ==

What is the most common stock type used by U.S. Police departments; the A2 type or the A3 type?

That is almost impossible to tell. I've seen both in my local, county and State police SWAT teams so both are used in all police department. The better question would be are there any US police department that uses the MP5K? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:According to the picture about half way down the page, the Northeast Metro Law Enforcement Council Special Operations Unit in Massachusetts does. [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70:hk-in-action-2-a-collection-of-actual-working-teams&catid=18:hk-in-action-series&Itemid=5] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

==MP5F Redundancy?==

Do we really need a section for the MP5F? It seems highly unlikely that this model would be used in films or television, and visually distinguishing it from an MP5A3 or MP5A5 would be practically impossible. The only external indicator would be the stock, and that can be interchanged with other MP5 variants. The section claims that this model is internally modified to handle high-pressure ammo, which would be irrelevant for a blank-adapted weapon seen on-screen. If you ask me, having a section for the MP5F would be like having a section for the US military's M9 Beretta on the Beretta 92 page. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 19:33, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:No contest, nuke it. From what I understand unless the gun image came directly from a movie armorer, if the weapon has not appeared in anything than it has no right to be on IMFDB. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:Just to add, there are actually some other exterior differences other than the stock. If by some miracle you can see the receiver markings on the spine in a movie, they will simply read HK MP5 rather than HK MP5-N. More realistically, you can also tell the difference by the front sling loop. On the original MP5s there is only a sling eye on the left hand side, mounted as the end of a pin. On the MP5F however, there is a sling loop on either side of the barrel, lower than the single loop on the standard MP5s. The original sling loop pin is replaced with a regular pin, and a "saddle" type mount for the sling loops is mounted under the barrel, placing the sling loops level with the centre of the barrel rather than above it as in the original MP5s. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:32, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

==MP5/10==

Could the MP5/10 be fitted with an MP5A3-style telescoping stock? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 00:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:: I believe so, I remember seeing MP5/10s with collapsible stocks. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Only the really cool ones :) plus if you google it, the very first picture of one has a telescoping stock. God bless Jeff Cooper and his 10mm. --[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

== MP5K without sights ==

In a couple of shows (only one I can think of right now is [[Ultimate Force]]) a version of the MP5K can be seen that appears to have no sights aside from a vestigial post at the front, and possibly a simple notch at the back. Anyone know if this was an actual version that was made a or a modification? As a side note, this version was actually used in real life by the British SAS, and can be seen in several "publicity" (for lack of a better term) photos taken during a training exercise.

Also, does anyone know if the single fire MP5 versions (Not chopped HK94s, but the things with paddle magazine releases and 3-lug muzzles, and with regular SEF or Navy trigger groups just missing the FA position) were ever available to the public as I think I have spotted a couple in something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:37, 13 April 2011 (CDT)

Bloody typical, immediately after I ask the question I find out that it an MP5KA1 (or MP5KA5 with 3 round burst added), and has low profile fixed pistol type sight for use when worn under clothing to prevent snagging. Does this deserve its own entry on the main page, as the visual differances between the K and KA1 are more than the difference between a MP5A2 and MP5A4. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:03, 13 April 2011 (CDT)
[[File:MP5KA1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KA1]]
[[File:MP5KA5.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KA5 fitted with the bulky old aiming point projector.]]

:Yes, the MP5KA1 should get its own section, although I'm not sure it's all that common (''[[Ultimate Force]]'' is so far the only media appearance of this variant that I've seen).

:And to answer your other question: In the U.S., the MP5SF (the semi-only versions) would not be legal for public ownership. The MP5SF is just a standard mil-spec/LE MP5 that has had its lower receiver swapped out for the SF trigger group; any of the burst/auto-fire lowers can be installed quickly, which means that legally, it is still a machine gun. And if it has a short barrel with the attachment lugs, it would also be an SBR (Short-Barreled Rifle). The reason that the HK94 and other MP5 semi-auto clones don't have the paddle mag releases is because the semi-auto lower receiver is permanently attached to the upper so that a select-fire lower can never be installed. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

== MP5KN ==

I think, the gun labeled as "MP5KN" in the MP5K section is just an MP5K fitted with a Navy trigger pack. The real KN has an extended barrel, like the PDW. Anyone agree with this? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:53, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
:I agree, have been meaning to change it for a while but keep forgetting about it. Below is an actual MP5KN (well not exactly as the only ones in existence were issued to the US Navy, but this one is a Navy lower MP5K that someone has fitted with a rare genuine MP5KN barrel so is as close as you will ever get). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:47, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:MP5K-N.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KN - 9x19mm]]

::Rather curious why Heckler & Koch haven't made MP5K with threaded barrel in the first place... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:25, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

== Suitcase gun ==

I was looking at the pictures of the MP5's at the top of this page, and the one of the MP5K in the specially-made suitcase got me wondering-wouldn't that be very hard to aim properly? No iron sights, firing from the shin...and who uses it anyway? CIA, MI6, FSD (I think that's the Russian security service). And say you wanted to buy one, where would you buy it? I doubt from a normal H&K weapons shop. And how much would it even cost, assuming it hasn't been banned in loads of places? Why has this even been made? I mean, I am very interested in guns-that-don't-look-like-guns. I just wonder, have there been suitcase guns before this? If so, did anyone ever actually use them, and can legally talk about it? Can anyone else tell me about any guns out there that are disguised as something else? Always interested...Alasdair.
:Supposedly HK offered it to private security firms for use by bodyguards; given you can't reload it without opening the case anyway, I assume it's only designed for use against someone who jumps your VIP at extremely close range where just pointing the case and shooting is all you're going to need. No idea if anyone ever seriously used one, mind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:50, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
::It was used by the British SAS for close protection (they had it, don't know if they actually used it seriously though). The taught way to aim it was to brace the end of the case (the opposite end to the barrel obviously) horizontally across your chest. You can see pics of it being used [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=91:mp5k-series&catid=9:the-submachine-guns&Itemid=5 here], along with pictures of the more practical (IMHO) MP5K bag, which allows you to access the selector, as well as being more naturally "pointable". These did get around a bit, [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/Todays%20Pix/e160ef77.jpg 22 MP5Ks in the briefcase] were found by US soldiers as part of an arms cache in Baghdad in 2003. The same arms cache also had a [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/Todays%20Pix/09028da8.jpg gold plated MP5SD6]. If you google it you can find a few places selling them, with the prices being up to $4,000 for the case not including the gun, with about $2,500 apparently being about the average they go for these days.--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:43, 5 April 2012 (CDT)
Ah, O.K. Thanks. I once heard something about camera guns, though. Anyone know anything about them? Alasdair.

Talk:Smith & Wesson Model 500

2012-04-05T16:55:59Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Smith & Wesson Model 500

2012-04-05T08:29:36Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Smith & Wesson Model 500

2012-04-05T08:27:49Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5

2012-04-05T08:14:36Z

Alasdair:

==Other Variants or incarnations of the MP5==
[[Image:EODMP5A3rubberprop.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with mounted [[M203 grenade launcher]] 40mm as used by [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]'s character Jericho Cane in the film ''[[End of Days]]''.]]
[[Image:H&K 94.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch 94 carbine with front pistol grip & barrel jacket]]
[[Image:MP5KA42.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5KA4 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K_MP54.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP54 earliest prototype of the H&K MP5 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:P00634.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used prop Heckler & Koch MP5A3 - 9x19mm. This non-firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The gun is constructed of rubber and was used during parts of the barge sequence where the live firing gun was unecessary. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00634&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:P00646.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used prop Heckler & Koch SP89 - 9x19mm. This non-firing plastic prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The replica SP89 was used as a stand in for the virtually identical live firing MP5K used earlier in the sequence and was used onscreen when Winter throws the gun away. The tip was slightly damaged during the throw and is in otherwise good condition. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00646&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[File:HKMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with Surefire Weaponlight and "SD"-style stock]]
[[Image:DayMP5K.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daisy Airsoft Model 14 Heckler & Koch MP5K - 9x19mm. One of the first ASG.]]
[[Image:HK_MP5SD.png|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 with a integrated suppressor - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5K-UMP.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW fitted with a [[UMP]]-style stock - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5SD3-with2-round-burst.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 with additional 2-round burst fire mode. (Note that this weapon '''is not''' an MP5SD6, the SD6 '''must''' feature the 3-round burst option. This trigger group is officially called "2-round burst" by H&K.)]]
[[Image:KACMP5RSRAIL.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5F with Knight's Armament Company rail system - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:JG MP5 RAS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''Airsoft''' MP5-RAS by Jing Gong - 6mm BB]]
[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguard removed - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K-MP5Ksuitcase.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K in trademark Heckler & Koch suitcase - 9x19mm]]
[[File:SerenityMP5K.jpg |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5K used in ''[[Serenity]]'' - version with SEF Plastic Trigger Pack and West German 'Waffle pattern' stick magazine - 9x19mm. The LED sight, unfortunately, could not be found to mount on the weapon for the photograph.]]
[[Image:MP5SFA3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SFA3 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5SD1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD1 - 9x19mm]]

==Early MP5 gone==

As you can tell, I deleted the section on early MP5s, for two reasons:

(1.) It's unlikely early MP5s appear in movies or TV, simply because those models are quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany. If you go to HKPRO's MP5 page, you can see what the earliest MP5s looked like.
(2.) The pictures were not early MP5s (one was an MP5A2 taken by MPM, which has since been moved to the MP5A2 section, the other was an A3 with a straight mag and older convex-style buttplate).

If anyone wants to restore it, please just copy and paste the code from an earlier revision; I made some other revisions that are important to keep. Don't undo all of my recent edits. Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
: I've never seen a movie with the original HK54s, so I agree. If someone did want to put it on though, they have it on World Guns. -GM
:: I restored it, for three reasons: 1. I strongly disagree with the conclusion that a weapon has to be common to deserve inclusion. If that was a valid criterion a considerable number of the gun articles/sections on this site never would've been created. 2. The MP-54 is in [[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl]], so what if it's a video game, this site covers those too. 3. People editing ''that'' article take one look at "MP-54" and assume it's a typo, because even if they do their research by looking at ''this'' article, they find no such weapon and so conclude that it doesn't exist. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 13:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I checked your page for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. That doesn't look to me like an MP-54; it looks more like a regular MP5A3 with an open front sight. Such sights do exist as after-market accessories for the MP5. However, seeing as it's a game, it could also just be an artistic decision made by the gun modeler. But it's definitely not supposed to be an MP-54; notice it has the wrong rear sight and hand guards for the -54. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

The page for [[Biggles: Adventures in Time]] (1986) mentions "old spec MP5's with staight magazines"; whether they're actual vintage early MP5s, I know not. British television and film productions might well use these guns. I worry about the deletion of the early section; it's going to clumsy to put it back when someone spots an early MP5, and someone ''will'' spot an early MP5 at some point. One will appear in the background of ''[[The Professionals]]'' or ''[[Who Dares Wins]]''; and although it may be true that they are "quite rare and basically not available outside of Germany", this database doesn't exclude German television programmes. I understand that German television has historically not been too keen on guns, but there must have been German cop dramas and television films and indeed theatrical films in the 1970s. -[[User:Ashley Pomeroy|Ashley Pomeroy]] 18:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

==Why not put the 'fake' MP5s on the HK94 section?==
It technically runs counter to common practice on IMFDB by putting the gun in the section of the weapon it's 'impersonating' rather than the real section. Case in point. We put fake M16A2s (that are A1s with A2 handguards) in the M16A1 section ... NOT the M16A2 section, even though that is the gun it is impersonating. Why don't we put the appearances of the C&C HK94s in the HK94 section? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

:Hmmm, I didn't notice that this wasn't being done. But yes, I agree, all C&C HK94s impersonating MP5s should go in the HK94 section. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:Pay no attention to what I just edited out, I was being stupid.-protoAuthor

== Heckler & Koch MP5K's with the foregrips removed ==

What is the point of MP5K's with the fore grips removed appearing in movies? you don't have a grip, and could burn you hand if you have been shooting
:What? Speak english for me please.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Better?
:Yes. On topic, they are used as if they are machine pistols. Look at the Third Matrix movie page on this site. They are used in that movie. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ on the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

"Used as if they are machine pistols"? That would still apply even if the MP5Ks had foregrips but were being dual-wielded like in those scenes. In fact, MP5Ks (as opposed to MP5K-PDWs) ''are'' machine pistols, just relatively bulky ones (compared to models like the Glock 18) due to their lack of a buttstock (like the M93 Raffica). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:31, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

== SP-10 / MP-10 is also the PXP-10 ==

Coharie Arms is the current producer of the SP-10 / MP-10 and its model is now designated as the PXP-10 (although the MP-10 designation is still in effect for fully automatic builds). Their are some slight changes since the SP-10 production. Specifically, the texturing was altered and mounting screws were added on the lower foregrip. Additionally, the tint of the plastic may have changed as well. Coharie has recently announced that the tooling is up for sale.

== U.S. Police MP5 stocks ==

What is the most common stock type used by U.S. Police departments; the A2 type or the A3 type?

That is almost impossible to tell. I've seen both in my local, county and State police SWAT teams so both are used in all police department. The better question would be are there any US police department that uses the MP5K? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:According to the picture about half way down the page, the Northeast Metro Law Enforcement Council Special Operations Unit in Massachusetts does. [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70:hk-in-action-2-a-collection-of-actual-working-teams&catid=18:hk-in-action-series&Itemid=5] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

==MP5F Redundancy?==

Do we really need a section for the MP5F? It seems highly unlikely that this model would be used in films or television, and visually distinguishing it from an MP5A3 or MP5A5 would be practically impossible. The only external indicator would be the stock, and that can be interchanged with other MP5 variants. The section claims that this model is internally modified to handle high-pressure ammo, which would be irrelevant for a blank-adapted weapon seen on-screen. If you ask me, having a section for the MP5F would be like having a section for the US military's M9 Beretta on the Beretta 92 page. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 19:33, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:No contest, nuke it. From what I understand unless the gun image came directly from a movie armorer, if the weapon has not appeared in anything than it has no right to be on IMFDB. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:Just to add, there are actually some other exterior differences other than the stock. If by some miracle you can see the receiver markings on the spine in a movie, they will simply read HK MP5 rather than HK MP5-N. More realistically, you can also tell the difference by the front sling loop. On the original MP5s there is only a sling eye on the left hand side, mounted as the end of a pin. On the MP5F however, there is a sling loop on either side of the barrel, lower than the single loop on the standard MP5s. The original sling loop pin is replaced with a regular pin, and a "saddle" type mount for the sling loops is mounted under the barrel, placing the sling loops level with the centre of the barrel rather than above it as in the original MP5s. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:32, 19 May 2011 (CDT)

==MP5/10==

Could the MP5/10 be fitted with an MP5A3-style telescoping stock? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 00:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:: I believe so, I remember seeing MP5/10s with collapsible stocks. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Only the really cool ones :) plus if you google it, the very first picture of one has a telescoping stock. God bless Jeff Cooper and his 10mm. --[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

== MP5K without sights ==

In a couple of shows (only one I can think of right now is [[Ultimate Force]]) a version of the MP5K can be seen that appears to have no sights aside from a vestigial post at the front, and possibly a simple notch at the back. Anyone know if this was an actual version that was made a or a modification? As a side note, this version was actually used in real life by the British SAS, and can be seen in several "publicity" (for lack of a better term) photos taken during a training exercise.

Also, does anyone know if the single fire MP5 versions (Not chopped HK94s, but the things with paddle magazine releases and 3-lug muzzles, and with regular SEF or Navy trigger groups just missing the FA position) were ever available to the public as I think I have spotted a couple in something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:37, 13 April 2011 (CDT)

Bloody typical, immediately after I ask the question I find out that it an MP5KA1 (or MP5KA5 with 3 round burst added), and has low profile fixed pistol type sight for use when worn under clothing to prevent snagging. Does this deserve its own entry on the main page, as the visual differances between the K and KA1 are more than the difference between a MP5A2 and MP5A4. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:03, 13 April 2011 (CDT)
[[File:MP5KA1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KA1]]
[[File:MP5KA5.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KA5 fitted with the bulky old aiming point projector.]]

:Yes, the MP5KA1 should get its own section, although I'm not sure it's all that common (''[[Ultimate Force]]'' is so far the only media appearance of this variant that I've seen).

:And to answer your other question: In the U.S., the MP5SF (the semi-only versions) would not be legal for public ownership. The MP5SF is just a standard mil-spec/LE MP5 that has had its lower receiver swapped out for the SF trigger group; any of the burst/auto-fire lowers can be installed quickly, which means that legally, it is still a machine gun. And if it has a short barrel with the attachment lugs, it would also be an SBR (Short-Barreled Rifle). The reason that the HK94 and other MP5 semi-auto clones don't have the paddle mag releases is because the semi-auto lower receiver is permanently attached to the upper so that a select-fire lower can never be installed. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

== MP5KN ==

I think, the gun labeled as "MP5KN" in the MP5K section is just an MP5K fitted with a Navy trigger pack. The real KN has an extended barrel, like the PDW. Anyone agree with this? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:53, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
:I agree, have been meaning to change it for a while but keep forgetting about it. Below is an actual MP5KN (well not exactly as the only ones in existence were issued to the US Navy, but this one is a Navy lower MP5K that someone has fitted with a rare genuine MP5KN barrel so is as close as you will ever get). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:47, 4 April 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:MP5K-N.jpg|thumb|400px|none|MP5KN - 9x19mm]]

== Suitcase gun ==

I was looking at the pictures of the MP5's at the top of this page, and the one of the MP5K in the specially-made suitcase got me wondering-wouldn't that be very hard to aim properly? No iron sights, firing from the shin...and who uses it anyway? CIA, MI6, FSD (I think that's the Russian security service). And say you wanted to buy one, where would you buy it? I doubt from a normal H&K weapons shop. And how much would it even cost, assuming it hasn't been banned in loads of places? Why has this even been made? I mean, I am very interested in guns-that-don't-look-like-guns. I just wonder, have there been suitcase guns before this? If so, did anyone ever actually use them, and can legally talk about it? Can anyone else tell me about any guns out there that are disguised as something else? Always interested...Alasdair.

User talk:Czar

2012-04-05T08:04:24Z

Alasdair:

Interesting Topic-Perfect Assassin's Weapon
-COURTESY OF IMFDB USERS-

It depends which weapon. For pistol, I'd probably say a Ruger Mk III Integrally Suppressed .22 LR. As for a sniper rifle, an Accuracy International Covert 7.62 would probably be the best choice if they need to carry a weapon past security, or take it on board a flight. And it's very accurate too. Contract killers tend not to use anything automatic, so skip machine guns, sub-machine guns and assault rifles...seeing as the Assassin's Creed hidden blade isn't actually a real weapon, I'd say probably a Fairbairn-Sykes Fighting Knife. They were made for the British WWII Commandos, and designed to do one thing only-kill. Useless at everything else, but exceedingly good at that. Should top anything else...Alasdair.

Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

2012-04-04T16:47:43Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

2012-04-04T16:46:36Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

2012-04-04T16:34:08Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

2012-04-04T16:30:56Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

2012-04-04T16:29:55Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

2012-04-04T16:28:54Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

2012-04-02T18:35:24Z

Alasdair:

=Unknowns=
==Unknown revolver==
[[Image:MPFS_Unknown_01.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Thieves with unknown revolvers in the "Stolen Newsreader" sketch. ("How to Recognise Different Types of Trees From Quite a Long Way Away?" S01E03)]]

I do not know. Judging by the rest of the handguns used in the show, probably a Webley or Enfield variant. And now for something completely different... Alasdair. P.S: I'd like it if everyone finished their comments on this page with 'And now for something completely different...' you know, as a tribute.

Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

2012-04-02T18:34:24Z

Alasdair:

=Unknowns=
==Unknown revolver==
[[Image:MPFS_Unknown_01.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Thieves with unknown revolvers in the "Stolen Newsreader" sketch. ("How to Recognise Different Types of Trees From Quite a Long Way Away?" S01E03)]]

I do not know. Judging by the rest of the handguns used in the show, probably a Webley or Enfield variant. And now for something completely different...

Talk:M1911 pistol series

2012-04-02T18:32:01Z

Alasdair:

==Additional Variants==
===Screen Used===
[[Image:EnemyofState1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Screen-used original Colt M1911 pistol wielded by [[Gene Hackman]]'s character Brill in ''[[Enemy of the State]]'', serial #357414 (photo from Long Mountain Outfitters).]]
[[Image:M1911WeWereSoldiers.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Screen used M1911 pistol (Hero Gun) carried and used by [[Sam Elliott]] as Command Sergeant Major Basil Plumley in ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1WeWereSoldiers.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Screen Used Hero Gun M1911A1, carried by [[Mel Gibson]] as Lt. Col. Hal Moore in the film ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' - .45 ACP. Provided by Cinema Weaponry.]]
[[Image:ColtMkIVSilver DeNiro Machete.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Custom engraved nickel plated Colt MKIV Series 80 with pearl grips - .45 ACP. This is the screen used pistol for [[Robert De Niro]] playing Senator McLaughlin in the upcoming Robert Rodriguez film [[Machete]] (scheduled for release on April 16, 2010). ]]
[[Image:ColtCustomXXX.jpg‎|thumb|450px|none|This is the screen used Colt XSE M1911 Pistol, wielded, carried (and lost) by August Gibbons ([[Samuel L. Jackson]]) in the film ''[[XXX 2: State of the Union]]''. This pistol has a customized slide with the initials "A G" etched (for "Augustus Gibbons") and also has the logo for SEAL TEAM 4 in the center - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:T2M1911detonicsprop.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The Colt/Detonics M1911A1 Series 70 hybrid pistol used in the film ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:Saradet.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Detonics 1911 used in the film ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]''. Image courtesy of ScreeUsed.com]]
[[Image:SCM1911A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The stainless Springfield Armory M1911A1 used by [[Benicio del Toro|Benico Del Toro]] as Detective Jack Rafferty in the film ''[[Sin City]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:TitanicM1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A Nickel-Plated ''[[Titanic]]'' M1911 from Stembridge Gun Rentals - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:P1010522ig5.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Actual D&L Sports Professional Model Longslides - .45 ACP movie props used by the Comedian [[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]] in ''[[Watchmen]]''.]]
[[Image:Wanted_21.JPG|thumb|none|450px|The Safari Arms Matchmaster used by [[Angelina Jolie]] in the film ''[[Wanted]]'' - .45 ACP. Note Safari Arms Lion logo.]]
[[Image:IMG 1666.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP used on ''[[The Unit]]''. The weapon pictured here was the actual Warrior carried and fired by Dennis Haysbert in the last season.]]
[[Image:IMG 1534.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Another Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP was used in the most recent season of ''[[The Unit]]''. This was Dennis Haysbert's backup weapon in case the first failed (it is customary in Hollywood for each "hero" gun use to have at least one backup on set).]]
[[Image:BDSIIParas-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A pair of Para-Ordnance SSPs (.45 ACP) as used in ''[[The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day]]''. The weapons pictured here were the actual screen-used guns handled and fired by Clifton Collins, Jr. in the film; note the custom grips, golden suppressors, and "El Jefe" engraved into the slides. ''(Big thanks to [[Al Vrkljan]] at Movie Armaments Group for this IMFDB Exclusive image!)'']]
[[Image:ShootEmUp-HammersonNiteTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac (.45 ACP) used in ''[[Shoot 'Em Up]]''. The weapon pictured here is one of the actual screen-used guns from the film; note the engraved Hammerson logo. ''(Big thanks to [[Al Vrkljan]] at Movie Armaments Group for this IMFDB Exclusive image!)'']]
[[Image:1911-The Getaway.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Government Commercial M1911 - .45 ACP used by [[Steve McQueen]] in the film ''[[Getaway, The (1972)]]''.]]
[[Image:M&MSColtXSEusedinfilm.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The Colt M1911A1 XSE - .45 ACP used in the film ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]''.]]
[[Image:ColtM1911A1PunisherProps.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The two blank firing prop custom Colt M1911A1s used in the film ''[[Punisher, The (2004)]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:NashBridges1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Nash Bridges' Custom 1911 - .38 Super. This is the actual pistol that was used by [[Don Johnson]] in the show ''[[Nash Bridges]]''.]]
[[Image:Colt-M1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The actual M1911A1 [[Pierce Brosnan]] used in ''[[The World Is Not Enough]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SerenityM191A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Jayne Cobb's Mocked-Up Custom M1911A1 - .45 ACP used in the film ''[[Serenity]]''.]]
[[Image:P00654 1911 Full Left.jpg|thumb|none|450px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Colt M1911 with Nickel-plated and pearl grips - .45 ACP pistol. This non-firing prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film '''[[The Other Guys]]'''. The gun is accompanied by the Galco shoulder holster and clip pouch also used in numerous scenes from the film. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TGC&Product_Code=P00654&Category_Code=OtherGuys here].]]
[[Image:IMG 1509.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A Strayer Voight Infinity - .45 ACP. This is one of the actual guns that has been used by The Company henchmen on ''[[Heroes]]''; this weapon was supplied to the show by Independent Studio Services and has been used on every season.]]
[[Image:Expendable-kimber-b.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Modified Kimber Gold Combat II used by [[Sylvester Stallone‎]] in ''[[Expendables, The|The Expendables]]'' - .45 ACP]]

[[Image:IMG 0444.JPG|thumb|none|450px|[[M1911|Colt MK IV Series 80]] - .45 ACP This was used in the film ''[[Street Kings]]'' and the series ''[[Chase]]'' and ''[[Dark Blue]]''.]]

===Airsoft Variants===
[[Image:GP WE M1911Peral lg.jpg|thumb|none|450px|An airsoft reproduction of the Springfield Armory M1911-A1 made by J-Armoury (Western Arms) used in the film ''[[Se7en]]''.]]
[[Image:CobrGold1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Perfect airsoft replica of [[Cobra]]'s Colt GC National Match - 9mm Pistol made by Western Arms.]]
[[Image:Htk1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft replica of Storm's M1911A1 from ''[[Hard to Kill]]'' - made by Western Arms.]]
[[Image:WA-WLUF_2_mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Replica of Castor Troy's custom Springfield Armory M1911-A1 - .45 ACP from the film ''[[Face/Off]]''.]]
[[Image:WA490 4 mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Long Slide Jim Hoag M1911A1 replica - .45 ACP, very similar to what Frank ([[James Caan]]) used in the film ''[[Thief]]''.]]
[[Image:Snake_.45-2.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Sheriff Co. "Custom M1911" Airsoft Gun - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SAProTac.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Airsoft replica of a Springfield Armory Loaded - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:Baby1.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Airsoft WE HiCapa 5.1 Full Metal Dragon Custom M1911 (Type B) Black Model with blue LED lights in the grip - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Detonics CombatMaster M1911 airsoft.jpg|450px|thumb|none|WE "Caspian Arms" M1911 replica of a Detonics CombatMaster M1911 or a Colt Officer's ACP - .45ACP]]
[[Image:Colt M1911.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Yu Teng 'YT385' replica of the original Colt M1911A1 model - .45ACP]]

===Other Replicas===
[[Image:Snake_.45.JPG|thumb|none|450px|CGI rendering of the Springfield Operator from the game [[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]] - .45 ACP]]

===Other Variants===
[[File:M1911A1PreWar.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Detailed screenshot of prewar M1911A1]]
[[Image:Kimber_Ultra_Crimson_Carry_II.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Kimber Ultra Carry Crimson II - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Kongsberg M1914.JPG|thumb|450px|none|Kongsberg M1914 - .45 ACP. The Kongsberg M/1914 is a Colt M1911 pistol produced under license by the Norwegian factory Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk, with a minor modification to the slide stop and stock.]]
[[Image:.38Super1911MachinePistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The real-life Dillinger's .38 Super M1911A1 Machine Pistol, for comparison purposes.]]
[[Image:SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 1911 PISTOL.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory M1911A1 mil-spec stainless - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:SpringfieldArmoryM1911A1stainless.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory M1911A1 "Mil-Spec" - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ED 45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AMT Hardballer Longslide with laserlock sight as used in the film ''[[The Terminator]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:AMT_Hardballer_Hitman_Replica.jpg|390px|thumb|none|A near-perfect, firing, replica of the "Silverballers" from the Hitman series.]]

[[Image:MilSpec-1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Mil-spec M1911A1 - .45 ACP. This was one of the most commonly seen .45s used by LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom TLE II.]]
[[Image:0862731R.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1911A1 Commercial (Same marks of the movie's pistol) - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:PC9111.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Professional 1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1ithaca.jpg|thumb|none|450px|World War II Ithaca made M1911A1 with light grey finish - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:PublicEnemies1.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Pre-War Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP used on ''[[Public Enemies]]'' (2009)]]
[[Image:SW1911pd.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911PD Tactical Rail - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:1911 Longslide.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP. This model is very similar to the one in the episode on the ''[[Miami Vice (TV Series)]]''.]]
[[Image:Colt45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1911A1 .45 ACP with Pachymar grips]]
[[Image:Taurus PT1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Taurus PT1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Bruni8mm.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Bruni M1911A1-style blank firing stage prop - 8mm blank.]]
[[Image:Para1911G.I..jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para 1911 G.I. Expert - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SA_loaded_m1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Loaded M1911A1 - .45 ACP similar to the one used by Sydney Bristow from ''[[Alias]]''.]]
[[Image:Peter-1-5006-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Federal Ordnance PSP-07 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:TIKI.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Strayer Voight Infinity TIKI - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:CustomM1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom Colt Series 80 M1911A1 pistol similair to one in the film ''[[Street Kings]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:LaserAimSeriesIIIPistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|LaserAim Series III Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:KimberUltraRaptor.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Kimber Stainless Ultra Raptor - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Para645LDA.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para-Ordnance 6.45 LDA with spare magazines - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ColtDefenderRIGHT83.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Defender - .45 ACP was similar to the one used in the game ''[[Uncharted 2: Among Thieves]]''.]]
[[Image:GM45M1911A1-3.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Hybrid 1911 "Gladys" fitted with a nickel plated three cut compensator - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Delta 001.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Delta Elite - 10mm Auto]]
[[Image:SM178017.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911 Pro Series - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:SW108282.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:KimberWarrior.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP like the one in the show ''[[24 - Season 8|24]]''.]]
[[Image:FLX 2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Nighthawk FLX - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Triple_Tap_IMM_Open_pistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|This SVI 1911 - .45 ACP is almost exactly like the one used in the film ''[[Triple Tap]]''. The description on the website reads, "IMM Open pistol made of carbon steel with Titanium compensator." (Picture supplied by sviguns.com)]]
[[Image:NiteTac.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:1911WideSpur.png|thumb|none|450px|Springfield GI 1911 A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ColtM1991A1L.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt M1991A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:The Veteran Colt 1991A1 Series 80.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt M1991A1 Series 80 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1USAF.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Black Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Springfield_ultra_compact.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Springfield Armory Ultra Compact - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:PX9105MLP.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Loaded MC Operator - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Springfield Armory 1911 Lightweight Operator.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Springfield Armory 1911 Lightweight Operator - .45 ACP]]
[[image:Razorcat.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Limcat Custom 2011 RazorCat - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Sight-Tracker.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Strayer Voigt Infinity Sight Tracker - .40 S&W. This is one of 10 pistols custom made by SVI for the television show ''[[Top Shot - Season 3|Top Shot]]''.]]

[[Image:MV_Tiki.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Crockett loads up his [[Strayer Voight Infinity TIKI]].]]
[[Image:Infinity_tiki1911.jpg‎|thumb|300px|none|SVI TIKI.]]
[[File:Para P14 Limited.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para Ordnance P14 Limited, early model with vertical slide serrations - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Kimber ICQB.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Kimber MCSOCOM ICQB - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Umarex 1911 blank firer right side.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Umarex Colt Government 1911 A1, right side showing the external extractor and slide markings - 9mm P.A.K. blanks]]

==Video game appearances of this pistol series==

Why is it that the "Video Game appearances" tables have a column named "Passwords"? I don't think it's for passwords to unlock them, because to my knowledge very few video games actually have a password system to unlock weapons. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a "Notes" after the "Mods" section where certain pertinent but miscellaneous information can be written, such as what copyright-infringement-avoiding name it goes under in the game, or whether it is chambered in a non-standard caliber?

I'd like this cleared up. Oh, and someone needs to include a note saying that "mods" is short for "modifications/customizations for the weapon," not "downloadable modifications to the game itself."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 06:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Frankly I think both the "Mods" and "Passwords" sections can go, since the latter is pointless and the former's purpose can be adequately served by "Notes". --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 15:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

==Colt Government Model Section==
With regard to the following sentence:

''"Aside from Colt selling the M1911A1 to the US military, the gun was also sold under the name "Colt Government Model" to the civilian market, and called the "Pre-Series 70" guns today."''

First, the Colt Government Model was introduced in 1912, and as such, it was originally in the M1911 configuration. When the U.S. Military switched to the M1911A1 configuration in the mid 1920s, Colt began manufacturing their Government Models in the M1911A1 configuration as well. So early Government Models parallel the military's M1911 configuration, while later Government Models (after the mid 1920s) parallel the military's M1911A1 configuration. Additionally, not only pre-Series 70 guns are Government Models. Series 70 and Series 80 guns are both Government Models. In fact, Colt still makes the Government Model to this day in various configurations.

With regard to the following sentence:

''"For IMFDB purposes, this can also be referred to as an M1911A1. In this manner, there is no need to list film, television, anime, video games in this section."''

It is sloppy to refer to a Colt Government Model as an M1911A1. "M1911A1" is the U.S. Military designation for a particular type of gun, and most of them were not even made by Colt (Remington Rand [the typewriter company] made most of them). I can see referring to a gun as an "M1911 type" or "M1911A1 type" if the manufacturer can't be determined, but when you simply type "M1911" or "M1911A1" you are referring to a U.S. Military contract pistol.

On top of that, the pictured gun in the Colt Government Model section is not even a "Pre-Series 70", it is a pre-enhanced Series 80 Government Model.

--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

:So it's like how we don't call it the Beretta M9, we call it the Beretta 92FS. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 03:52, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

::With the M9 vs. 92FS situation, it is next to impossible to tell the difference between the two onscreen, unless there is a closeup allowing one to read the markings. In such cases I would say, if a civilian character is using the gun, it is probably intended to be a 92F or 92FS. If a military character is using it, it is probably intended to be an M9, regardless of what the actual prop is. I would assume that most—if not all—movie and TV props are actually 92Fs or 92FSs, because I don't believe that actual M9s have ever been made available for civilian sale.

::With the M1911 or M1911A1 vs. the Colt Government Model (or other brands of 1911-type guns), it is usually possible to tell the difference onscreen without being able to read the markings. For example, the Colt Government Model does not have a lanyard loop. Most M1911A1s were parkerized, while no Government Models were parkerized. When dealing with more modern Government Models, there are even more differences. For example, starting in 1950, Government Models started coming with a full-shelf thumb safety; while all M1911[A1]s had partial-shelf thumb safeties. Also at this time, Government Models started being given a finish with polished flats and matte radiuses, while blued and Du-Lite (similar to bluing in appearance) M1911A1s had polished radiuses and brushed flats or entirely polished (depending on the manufacturer and/or time of manufacture); and of course the more common parkerized M1911A1s were simply all matte.

::Additionally, the newer Government Models as mentioned above have narrow hammers with polished sides left "in the white", and polished chamber hoods also left "in the white". Many M1911A1s had wide-spur hammers, and the ones that had narrow hammers were fully finished (no polished "in the white" sides) and they all had fully blued barrels, including the otherwise parkerized ones (no polished "in the white" chamber hoods).

::Most of the Government Models you see onscreen from the early 70s to the mid-to-late '80s were actually 9mm versions, though they were usually representing a "forty-five" onscreen. This had to do with reliable functioning with readily available 9mm blanks. Colt introduced the 9mm version of the Government Model when they introduced the Series 70 in the early 1970s, and the 9mm version of the CGM had a lowered ejection port (while the .45 ACP version still had the standard military style ejection port). With the introduction of the Series 80 Government Model in 1983, the .45 ACP version also got a lowered ejection port. No M1911[A1] had a lowered ejection port.

::I'll give an example. In the show Magnum, P.I., his gun is blued with polished flats and matte radiuses; polished "in the white" chamber hood and hammer sides, and a lowered ejection port. It is clear from looking that the gun is a Series 70 Colt Government Model chambered for 9mm (though it was always addressed as a "forty-five" in the show's dialogue); and is definitely not an M1911A1. Recently the gun came up for auction and is now in the NRA's National Firearms Museum, and it has been confirmed that that is exactly what the main prop gun was (serial # 70L33101 to be exact).

::--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

==Primary M1911 description==
Who wrote this? The historical paragraph (on the background of the M1911) implies that the M1911 was replaced by the U.S. Military AFTER Operation Desert Storm (1991) which is not true. The Beretta M92 (M9) was already approved and adopted by 1985.

Well for a period of time both the 1911 and M9 were in use by the U.S. military,therefore just because the M9 was in service does'nt mean it replaced the 1911 by that time, and for awhile soldiers actualy got to choose which weapon they prefered :o [[User:Leadback|Leadback]]
======================================
The Beretta M9 officially replaced the M1911 in 1985. They still used the M1911, but they weren't buying anymore. They simply phased them out over the years. Now there are some units in the US military that still use the M1911. The M9 is really only used by conventional military nowadays. For example, the Navy SEALs don't even use the M9 or M1911 anymore. They have the H&K MK23 Mod 0. Which is a purpose-built USP .45. I've even heard of some SEALs using the Ruger Mk. II. It's a .22 target pistol with an integrated silencer on it.

Soldiers were never given the choice to choose. They were given the M9, but many didn't like it. It was big, many could not shoot it accurately, and lots contested the effectiveness of the 9x19 round. Lots of people I work with were in the military around the time of the switch, were given the M9, hated it, and decided just to keep carrying the M1911. It wasn't until they were given an official order that they were forced to carry the M9. And even there, there were times when they went back to the M1911s the military had stored up. For example, out in the deserts. The magazines the military bought were junk, got sand in them, and jammed. The M1911 functioned perfectly. Same thing is happening over there now.

wrong. Special Operations soldiers are given their choice of a sidearm( and assault rifle). 1stSFOD-D has been using 1911s since foundation. infact Larry Vickers (Nighthawk Customs) has worked very closely with Delta Force. Nighthawk 1911s are being used by Delta. 2- the Seals in Vietnam started out with the Ruger Mk II Suppressed. and know one still used the HK MK23. it was fazed out years ago because of how bulky it is. SEALs use the Sig Sauer P226 or USPs. but that is still a generalization. because all SOF have a choice in sidearm [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:20, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Para-Ordance==
Shouldnt these guns get their own page? Sure they are a 1911 varients, but their made by a totally different company.[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]] 00:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, but they're 1911 variants. This is the M1911 pistol series page, and they are 1911s. That's why they are on here. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::I would prefer the Para Ordnance series of pistols have their own page due PRIMARILY to the fact that the Paras have a whole slew of different calibers that other M1911 makes and models don't have [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

What calibers does para have that other 1911 manufactures do not have?--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

On the main page, the LDA entry claims that some of the LDA models were made DA/SA with an exposed hammer, but that isnt true is it? I thought all the LDA were Double Action Only, with the exposed hammer simply for aesthetic reasons? -MissySummers-

== The M in the page title ==

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the M in the page title incorrect? These are Colt 1911s (or 1911a1s, etc.), not Colt M1911s, unless referred to by US military nomenclature, just the same way that a Beretta 92f is an M9 only to the US Army and a SIG Sauer P228 is an M11 only in USAF terms. Just because it's the model of 1911 doesn't make it an M1911, any more than a '67 Shelby GT500 is an M67 Shelby GT500.[[User:YourMessageHere|YourMessageHere]] 08:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
::No. The Colt pistol was formally adopted by the Army on March 29, 1911, thus gaining its designation, M1911 (Model of 1911). Only examples or prototypes prior to the year 1911 would NOT have the M designation (which is extremely rare). Between the years of 1907 and 1910 the Colt pistol was constantly being modified and re-designed to win the Army's trials for adoption of a new handgun. The gun was only mass produced AFTER winning the Army's pistol trials. The Beretta 92FS was already famous world wide and was commercially available as the 92F/FS for YEARS before the Army adopted it. Every 1911 design came AFTER the M1911 (aka Model of 1911) so it is the correct nomenclature. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Using "1911" to refer to any and all pistols based on the M1911 design has only been popular for about fifteen years. Prior to that, the vast majority of such pistols were Colts, and were usually called "Colt .45s", even if they were pistols made by wartime contractors like Remington Rand. Those commercial guns that weren't made by Colt, as made by Vega, Randall, Federal Ordnance, Essex, etc., were called "clones", as they were generally close copies of the Colt. When makers started adding previously "custom" features to production-line guns, and branching into areas that Colt hadn't, a new name was needed, and "1911" became popular. The problem that I have with the various names on the site is the mixing of military and commercial designations; a gun cannot be a "M1911A1 Government Model", as M1911A1 is a military designation, and Government Model is what Colt has always called the civilian version of the "M" military pistols. Colt has made M1911s (1912-circa 1924), M1911A1s (circa 1926-1945), and Government Models (1912-date), but you can't mix or combine those names without confusing the issue.

==Caliber question==
I thought I would ask permission before making this change considering how important this article is: in the specifications category the caliber is listed solely as .45 ACP. I was wondering whether or not that should be changed to include .380 ACP, .38 Super, 9mm, and .40 S&W?
:-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

No, since the ORIGINAL Colt M1911 is .45 ACP Caliber, it should stay like that, since copies of the M1911 maybe have different calibers those should be put on the "copy" section

Agreed --[[PunisherDave]]

==M1991 Series==
I was wondering: what exactly is the difference between the 1911 series and the 1991 series? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 17:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Colt introduced (announced) the M1991A1 in 1991 as a sort of economy version of the Government Model, resembling the military M1911A1, and with the serial numbers picking up where the military gun left off after WWII. The gun was made in that form until about 2003, at which time the finish was changed to polished blue rather than matte blue, and the black rubber grips replaced with checkered wood.
:I heard a guy explain on youtube that 1991 got "extra safety feature" which blocked firing pin movement entirely when trigger was not pressed; allegedly this modification appeared after a incident involving police officer accidentally killing suspect while snapping him with the gun. However, this modification somehow managed to eject firing pin from the slide during decocking so only few people liked it --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
::The YouTube guy doesn't know what he's talking about. The Colt M1991A1 did have the Series 80 firing pin safety, but this was introduced on all Colt Government Models in the early 1980s when the Series 80 version replaced the Series 70. The modification has never caused any problems, aside from perhaps complicating the trigger pull slightly, making it a little more difficult to achieve a good "trigger job". Also, the Series 80 parts are easily removed (and normally a few other minor things are done), and the gun will function just fine, in the same manner as a pre-Series 80 gun. The Series 80 firing pin safety wasn't prompted by any specific accidental police shooting. The only thing a non-Series 80 1911-type gun can accidentally shoot due to the lack of a firing pin safety is the ground. In other words, if a non-Series 80 1911-type gun is dropped from a significantly high height (6 feet or so I believe) directly onto its muzzle, the firing pin can continue forward with enough inertia to dent the primer, thus firing the gun (into the ground of course).

::It is too bad that Colt went to the trouble of designing the Series 80 modifications back in the early '80s, because the remote risk of accidental discharge as I described above is more easily solved by simply using a titanium firing pin (rather than the usual steel firing pin) along with a different weight firing pin spring. Since the titanium firing pin weighs less than a steel one, it has less inertia, and a 1911 so-equipped will pass the drop test just fine. In fact, Colt now uses titanium firing pins on their Series 70 Government Models that they started reissuing several years ago. If Colt had thought of the titanium firing pin idea back in the early '80s, they wouldn't have had to make any actual changes to the legendary 1911 design (changes which annoyed a lot of people), and they might not have lost so much of the 1911 market.

::Now, about the M1991A1: it went through a few different incarnations, but it originally was simply an economy version of the Series 80 Colt Government Model. Instead of the polished blue finish of the Government Model (polished flats and matte radiuses), it had an all-matte blue finish. It also had really cheap plastic grips that didn't fit well (they fell short of the bottom of the grip frame by about 3/16"). It also had a big, ugly rollmark on the slide, with "M1991A1" emblazoned in huge block letters. Finally, it came with a flat mainspring housing and a long trigger (both plastic), which was like the original M1911 (pre-M1911A1), which was ironic considering it was named M1991'''A1'''. --[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 09:13, 17 December 2011 (CST)

==Terminator 2==
It was my understanding that the 1911 used in the film was a custom Colt frame with a fitted Detonic slide. Was it a combatmaster slide? [[Special:Contributions/65.29.239.251|65.29.239.251]] 09:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== blank firers / K911 ==

I've added/moved blank firing Kimar 911 to the bottom of page as told by MoviePropMaster2008 ''("Non-firing replicas of the M1911 belong on the bottom of the M1911 page. Thanks.")'' 
But I wonder, shouldn't there be an entire sub-category of blank firers (with K911 being sub-section of this) in order to distinguish blanks from the real ones? It ''might'' look confusing this way. And also, I made multiple photos of K911 for what I thought would be it's page here including disassembled weapon photo, so perhaps these unused ones might be deleted? --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

==Strayer Voigt Infinity ==
This gun is using a frame from STI, they call that frame the 2011, it's double stacked. And is made from steel and polymer.

:are Strayer Voigt Infinity custom built guns? or just have alot of models? Rex095

The modular frames look exactly like those used by STI. http://www.sviguns.com
Don't know if they collaborate or something. They (SVI) have more optional grips than STI.

Both companies reside in Texas.
::Read up: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc]

Does anyone know the mag cap for a Strayer Voigt Infinity in 45acp? - captain snikt

==Police service pistols==

Before the 90s were American Police ever issued the M1911, or were they're only given to the FBI and SWAT team?

- Some regular state/county/municipal departments might have used a 1911 as a standard duty-weapon before semiautos came into heavy use following the eighties, but I imagine that's a very low number. I certainly don't know of any specific departments myself offhand. Not that many departments use 'em much today. As a 1911 generally was considered a large pistol with a fairly powerful round it wasn't considered easy to use and handle by regular officers. Same general reason why departments in older times stuck with .38s over .357s - The .357 was generally considered too powerful for standard-duty officers. As such, most police departments used 9mms when they first went to automatics in the eighties as there were few semiauto calibers with lower recoil impulse and power at the time than .45ACP.

Some other police units might have used 1911s when it suited them - Homicide detectives in our county's police dept. carried 1911 type pistols, though I don't think that was the county's standard sidearm for uniformed officers. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

:There's another reason, besides caliber, that the 1911 wouldn't have been too popular in the old days - it's a single-action. Before DA-only became more acceptable (i.e. Glocks), most LE departments preferred handguns that were SA/DA. Almost all police revolvers used prior to the 1980s, like the S&W Model 15 and 19, or the Colt Python, were single- or double-action. This bias continued into the 1980s when a lot of departments started adopting the Beretta 92F and the 3rd Generation Smith & Wesson autos. Now that Glocks have been around long enough, DA-only is finally becoming the standard. But SA-only is pretty much a no-go to any LE agency, and that's the way it was even before the 1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Isn't Glocks SA-only? The firing pin is cocked by cambering a round?

Would a Smith and Wesson Model 39 or 639 or Colt Commander be more acceptable for police use back then?

- To MT, that's a good point as well. SA weapons do require a lot of training and familiarity to operate effectively and safely, and as such, again, weren't considered practical for regular police officers either. Very good to point out. If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the main reasons why the 1911 fell out of favor in the Armed Forces as well - the fact they required extensive training and familiarity to use and carry safely. DA weapons are easier to train and operate with. Very true.

As for the Glock question, no, Glocks are actually DA only.

As for actions - In a Single-Action (SA) firearm, the hammer must be manually cocked to a firing position prior to pulling the trigger. Just like revolvers of the old west. Double action firearms will both cock and release the hammer when the trigger is pulled. SA/DA firearms use double-action by default, but feature an externally accessible hammer to allow single-action style firing (by cocking the hammer back and then pulling the trigger). Modern revolvers are perhaps the simplest examples of this.

DAO (Double-Action-Only) firearms only fire by double-action as they don't have an accessible hammer for single-action cocking. Such as Glock and various other semiauto pistols.

So if you have empty casing in the chamber, an pull the trigger several times, you would hear a loud click every time because the firing pin would be cocked every time? That's what happens in a DAO gun. If not, it's a SAO.

And on the last question, yes the Smith 39/59 pistols were used by police departments back then. Illinois State Police used the 59 back in the 60s/70s if I remember my Jane's Gun Recognition book correctly. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:07, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Correction, Glocks are not DAO. They fire from a half-cocked position. When you dry fire the gun, the hammer falls and must be recocked by racking the slide, it does not cock by double action springs. That's why the have a slightly heavy trigger pull, they are half cocked, and are brought to full cock and dropped by pulling the trigger. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::: Bah, how did I miss that.. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:05, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

i thought glocks were striker-fired?

I think I read that Tacoma, WA police carry 1911s as standard issue service weapons.

I read on another forum that the LAPD authorises 1911 varients to officers, however they have to go through an intense training program to be authorised for it and they have to re-qualify ever few months too. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:30, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

Yes. A Glock is a "striker-fired" weapon so technically it is not either double action or single action because a glock doesnt have a hammer but instead releases the firing pin inside the slide. However if you were going to have to compare it, Single Action would be the closest term. Because the firing pin is "cocked" when the slide is racked and then the trigger only releases it and firing the round. Additionally a Glock does not qualify as a double action because it in no way cocks anything with the trigger. The trigger on a Glock can not be pulled again without cycling the weapon, whereas on a gun that is a double action the trigger can be pulled and the hammer actuated multiple times without cycling the weapon. -[[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

==Versus modern pistols==

One thing I've noticed about this pistol is that almost everyone loves it, as though it were the best, most versatile handgun ever made. But really, what makes this thing, almost 100 years old now, any better than any modern pistols? Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 21:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Familiarity, accuracy, ease of getting parts, feel, simplicity (yes I know there are designs that are simpler, but for what this pistol is, it is simple), many different makes and models of the 1911, modularity, traditionalism. There are many makes and models of the 1911 style that have the same features as many modern "wonder guns". Want more ammo? Get a Para Ord P14, ditto for DA, and DA/SA. Want a 9mm/ 10mm/ etc? there are many types of 1911 platform pistols ranging from .22lr to .44 Magnum. A quote I heard about the 1911 a few years ago is "It's like a '32 Ford Hotrod, its cheap, reliable, powerful, fun, and is easy to make it your own. Just don't think you'll get much mileage out of a tank of gas." Now tell me can you put custom grips, barrels, sights, slides, frames, triggers, hammers, finishes, safeties, slide releases magazines, etc etc etc on a Glock, XD, SIG, Beretta, etc? Maby a few of those, but at what price, and can you do it all? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 08:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

: ''Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.''

- Funny, several pistols I can think of that fit that criteria are little more than updated 1911 pistols. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:08, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

"bigger clips"
: Fail. I believe you meant Magazines. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
ya Unless your talkin about a Mauser broomhandle (which you're not) I would prefer if you said magazine instead of clip

::Actually, that's another thing I'm questioning. Really, what is the difference between the detaachable box magazines and clips? I mean, clips hold bullets for easy loading, right? SO wouldn't modern detachable magazines be classified as clips too?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 20:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Simplest way I can put this - a clip loads a magazine. The magazine is what the gun feeds from - NOT THE CLIP. It just so happens that on some guns, the magazine is affixed to the weapon (the M1 Garand and the Mauser, for example). Thus, users have to use clips to reload them. On, say, a M1911 or an M16, the magazine falls out, thus allowing the user to swap in a new one when needed. A magazine could hold a clip, if so designed...but that particular road is one-way only. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 20:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

::The "clip vs. magazine" distinction is something that really needs to be clarified, and one of the reasons why I asked for the "general information" section in the first place. Hopefully someone can make a good article there showing the various type of bullet clips and why they should not be confused with magazines. By the way, revolvers when not loaded manually use bullet clips. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 05:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

considering that this page is dedicated to the 1911 which is generally made in .45 does anyone else find it somewhat stupid that our military and most police departments are using handguns that have been known for their lack of stopping power. there are better handguns out there that hold a generous amount of .45 ammunition anyway. for example the Nighthawk FLX holds 12-14. the HK USP/HK45, and the Infinity handgun line are double stacked. and even if most .45s hold 7-10 isnt that enough in most scenarios. 7 .45 slugs does the work of at least 20. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Its the same reason that police used the .38 Special for so many years even after the .357 came out. Politics, logistics, ability to handle the round, etc etc... -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:30, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:With regard to caliber, police need rounds that can penetrate car bodies, doors, walls, etc. .45 rounds are not known for penetration. Also, while the .45 round is more effective against soft tissue than 9mm and .40 S&W rounds, anyone who tries to claim that 7 .45 rounds can do the work of 20 9mm or .40 rounds is completely dillusional. Watch ballistic test videos. A .45 slug entering the body does more damage than a 9mm round entering the body. If you try to claim that one .45 wound is more damaging than 2 9mm wounds with any decent grouping than you clearly have no understanding of physics or human anatomy.

But the fact remains with a 9mm you dont want him dead in the half hour it will take for him to bleed out. you want him dead NOW. with the .45 hes going to feel it. he aint gunna get back up. with the 9mm he might just keep firing.
:Depending on shot placement. A 9mm slug to the heart or any of the major arteries surrounding it will cause death within several seconds. The same is true of a shot to most areas of the skull. .45 does have increased lethality over 9mm, but that degree of superiority has been greatly exaggerated.

Yeah but a 9mm can pass through a person and keep going, a .45 doesn't. I would imagine you wouldn't want those two 9mm rounds going through a person and hitting an innocent bystander. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:28, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

It all really comes down to preference. Honestly a body shot with any round is not guaranteed to kill or stop anyone. The only thing guaranteed to immediately incapacitate someone is to severing the brain from the rest of the body. Recoil is also a big factor. If you cant shoot it it doesnt matter what you carry. People and police departments have to find the weapon that will work best for them. Personally I like the .45 and I own a 1911. The most important feature on the 1911 for me is its thinness with the single stack mag. Honestly I think my Sig 229 .40 kicks more violently and is harder to shoot than my .45. I know a lot of people who do not like the .45 and much prefer their 9mm because they are better with it. -[[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

Modern 9mm JHP and .45 ACP JHP in ballestic gel create near equal wounds. I can post reference links if anyone wants them. The whole thing about magazine capacity isn't really a problem as 99% of the time, only three shots are fired at most. Even with police, most of the time, no more than 3 rounds are fired.

Carry what guns suits you best, whether its a .22LR or its a .45 ACP. Once I turn 21, I plan on getting a SIG 1911 with a 4" barrel in .45 ACP but for the time being, I have to stick with my XD40.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:01, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

==Variants NOT listed with any film/TV/game appearances==

- I've taken it upon myself to remove several listed variants that had no list of anything that they've appeared in. Guns posted that didn't say they were in anything - Not one movie, TV show episode, video game, nothing. A couple of which I don't think have appeared on anything and seem to have been put up just for the hell of it.

Now I know we have a lot of 1911 variants on the page, but the page is not intended to show/describe ''every'' variant of 1911 ever made, but only those ''that have actually appeared in something'', as quoted by some of the admins. I just find it a bit annoying to have to scroll down the page and see numerous 1911 pistols that have nothing listed under them (Again, with some looking like they were just added for the sake of being there), and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anyway, clearing said sections out now. If it seems like an unusual or otherwise noteworthy variant, I'll add it to the 'additional variants' section below. Bottom-line, if it ain't actually been in anything, ''don't add it'', no matter how cool it is or whatever. If it has been in something, then next time, don't half-ass - If you're going to bother with the effort of putting it up in the first place, do it 100% and say what it's appeared in. Thanks. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:18, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

==Kimber==
in the Kimber Warrior section it is listed as "Warrior II", which is wrong, the Warrior is built to full military specs and never got the "II" desinated saftey system...so it is just a Warrior because kimber only puts the II on the models they put their special saftey on.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Controversy igniter==
I am fully aware that what I am about to say will probably ignite the greatest firestorm of controversy this site has seen in a while. I have fired several 1911 pistols and found them to be a good, solid design. That said, it doesn’t change the fact that I think this is undoubtedly the most overrated firearm in history. Throughout the entire gun community there is the consensus that this is the absolute greatest thing ever conceived by the mind of man and anyone who says anything different is a blasphemer. Again, I am not saying it is a bad pistol, I just don’t think it is best (I won’t say what my top choice is for fear of causing even more indignation to come my way). Though even if it were the undisputed best pistol design around, I still don’t think it would be so significantly greater than other designs as to warrant being the object of the worship and masturbatory fantasies of every gun enthusiast in the world as it currently is. That’s my two cents, I await the fallout.

:I smell a troll.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 17:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I'd say he's not because he seems to explain his point. At least his reasoning isn't 'this gun sukzz' [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:My main reasoning is that the weapons are predominately single action only, which necessitates that they either be carried condition three (which makes the pistol slow to bring into action), or condition one (which many consider unsafe). The double/single action and double action only systems have become omnipresent in most modern combat pistols for good reason. Additionally, while a generally reliable design, many other pistols have surpassed 1911 models in ruggedness and reliability. Another thing that I find odd is the vast variety of weapons that are claimed to be “1911s.” For instance, I have seen subcompact, double action only, double-column “1911s” in many calibers other than .45acp. At this point the only common feature between these weapons and the original Colt 1911 design are a loose aesthetic resemblance. The internal mechanisms maybe similar as well, but many other pistols share a far greater functional similarity to 1911s yet do not bear the moniker. At what point does a gun cease being a “1911” and become something simply trying to cash in on a famous name sake?

It is human nature to emulate successful designs in the hopes of getting a piece of that pie, especially in the modern business world. Less-refined terms for this behaviour include "jumping on the bandwagon" or "riding a gravy train." It's nothing new now in the firearms industry, what with all the AR-15 variants, Glock knock-offs, and (of course) countless "1911-type" pistols around. What defines a "1911-type" pistol is really matter of personal preference.

I would, however, agree that it's foolish to fetishize a type of firearm or a firearms manufacturer just because of its track record or Public Relations budget. There is no such thing as the "perfect" weapon in the real world--every design involves tradeoffs, and that's even before you include the "human factor." Designs can always be improved. What matters most is what you can use the most effectively in a consistent manner. And if you can't, then you ought to get yourself another weapon or train more.

Speaking of "best pistol ever," I remember how H&K tried to label their 4.6x30mm pistol as "the Ultimate Combat Pistol," but it got unceremoniously cancelled, because of "inadequate ballistics in a handgun format." So much for "Ultimate Combat Pistol"--now it joins the legions of "Useless Cancelled Pistols" that came before it. Perhaps it could have had a chance if it were a machine pistol instead, dubbed the "MP7 UltraComPact," in essence an MP7 PDW in handgun format. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:34, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:What I would like to know is what is it about the 1911 that supposedly makes it the best. I've heard people say it is the greatest pistol ever for more than a decade yet never explain what ''specific'' features or advantages it has that make it so good.

You should head on over to the forum and ask that question: "What makes the M1911 pistol so great compared to everything else, and when does an M1911 stop being one and start being a pistol just pretending to be one?" I'm sure there are more people there who could answer your questions better than what you could get here. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

What makes the 1911 the "best"? There are many reasons for the following it has. I am of course referring to the original 1911A1 model, not the double stack nor double action variants. For one, the single action trigger is extremely easy to train with and use by a lot of people. Second, it has redundant safety systems in place. Even with the manual safety off, it will not fire unless the grip safety is fully pressed, though this safety system is seen by a few as a con of the design. Third, it utilized a single stack design. That coupled with the angle of the grip is a very comfortable for a majority of the people. The degree of the grip angle was chosen because, for a lot of people, it is a natural point meaning that one could close ones eyes and bring the pistol up and have it pointing directly at the target. Fourth, it fired the .45 ACP. The .45ACP is a proven manstopper especially when compared to the other rounds utilized at the time of its adoption and until the development of reliable hollow point designs. Lastly, I would argue that compared to many other designs, such as the Mauser C96, Luger,etc..., the 1911 was easily field strip as the pieces of the pistol were designed to aid in the stripping down of the firearm. Compared to todays plethora of firearms, the 1911 is no longer the only pistol to chamber effective rounds or reliability. Why is it still popular then? Because some people still favor the 1911 design. Overrated, I don't think so. There is a reason why it is still chosen over other designs. Is it the end-all-be-all of pistol design? No, I would say it isn't. Anyway, from everything I've read, personal experience, and research that is what I have come up with. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 21:15, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Everything you have described establishes that the gun is a good design, perhaps the best gun around when it first came out, but does not explain it's enduring following. The grip may be confortable for many people, but that is far too subjective to explain why so many people (with so many different hand sizes) still favor this gun. It's single stack magazine make it a confortable target and practical concealed carry weapon, but the limited capacity it offers can be a death trap in a combat weapon (which many still claim the 1911 is the quintessential example of). The .45 ACP is a great round against soft targets, but does not offer very good penetration or long distance acuracy. And with the isistance on reliable "Soldier Proof" weapons in most of today's militaries, many modern pistols are more reliable and easier to strip than the original 1911s. I don't deny that the 1911 was most likely the best pistol in the world when it came out and for a few decades after, but I don't think it still warrents that praise anymore, yet almost every gun Television show, magazine, website, etc. seems to constantly proclaim its supremacy.

To answer your first point. The single stack, thin handgrip is easily usable by people of differing handtypes. You say its subjective but isn't how something feels in someones hand subjective? For example, the M9/Beretta 92FS has a thick grip. Bigger hands have no problem with the grip but smaller hands do. The slim 1911 grip can be used by big hands or little hands. The grip angle is something else that many people find comfortable. You second point that you made was the single stack "death trap". You say that the single stack is a liability. But capacity isn't everything. 7+ rounds of .45 ACP is good. The .45ACP has a well known reputation for one shot stops. The 9mm of the Beretta 92 or Glock 17 does not have that reputation. As for the .45ACP, it is not meant to penetrate body armor, neither is the standard 9mm, but it is accurate over long distances. There are very few pistol rounds that are meant to penetrate body armor of vehicle armor, which is what I think that you are getting at. If you draw a pistol in a combat zone, you are already in deep trouble or in a position where a high capacity is not needed, i.e. MP's. Anyway, a pistol is not meant to be accurate at long distances so the point is moot. As for the "Soldier Proof" weapons, that is just a cheap way out of training soldiers correctly, as they did with the A2 model of the M16. A milspec 1911 is just as reliable as newer designs. One such argument is that the 1911 was only tested for 6000 rounds with no failure before cleaning while Glock for example is tested at 30,000 rounds. What soldier won't clean his sidearm after 6000 rounds? What battle involves firing 6000 rounds out of a pistol? If you can't see why the 1911 design is praised and still being used then I can't help any further. The 1911 design has many good points that apparently many people still find better than other designs, and many still find the 1911 a proven and effective design.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 22:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Apparently I wasn't clear when I rebutted you last time. The single stack is confortable for people with small hands yes. However, people with larger hands, and even some small handed people, have no problem with thicker grips and so the capacity limiting single stack serves no purpose. The grip angle is a completely subjective feature and so it is imposible to argue that one style is better than another. What matters more is simply what one is used to. You are right that 7-9 rounds of ammunition and 6000 rounds before cleaning is more than adequate for most applications, however my point wasn't that the 1911 is bad (it is a good weapon) but simply that there are better guns out their. 7 or 8 rounds may be enough for most encounters, but having 12-17 rounds and being able to fire 30,000+ rounds before cleaning is an advantage, whether or not one will utalize those features often. Also, when I referenced penetration I had things like doors, walls, and car bodies in mind, not armor. The .38 Super cartridge was specifically developed because the .45 could not penetrate car bodies effectively. Your previous post all focuses on arguing that the 1911 is an ''adequate'' combat pistol which I completely agree with. My whole point is that the features you mentioned ''do not make it the best pistol around.'' When I first began this conversation I stated that the 1911 is not a bad gun, simply that with all the pistol designs that have emerged in the past century it is no longer the greatest pistol in the world, yet nearly everyone in the gun community (yourself clearly included) still claim it is for no other reason than people like its grip (which is subjective), its caliber (which is used in many much modern modern firearms), and its history (which can easily make it a favorite gun but can not be used as justification for it being the best).

::'''"You are right that 7-9 rounds of ammunition and 6000 rounds before cleaning is more than adequate for most applications"'''

::"Before cleaning"? What do you think; that it will malfunction on the 6001st round if you don't clean it? The gun is as dirty as it is going to get after a few hundred rounds. When you've fired a gun 6000 times in a row without cleaning and with no malfunctions, that means that when the gun finally does malfunction it won't be because it is dirty; it will most likely continue to function properly until something breaks.

::'''"but having 12-17 rounds and being able to fire 30,000+ rounds before cleaning is an advantage, whether or not one will utalize those features often."'''

::Just so you know, the M1911 didn't malfunction on the 6000th round. It didn't malfunction at all. They stopped after 6000 rounds because that is how many rounds they had decided beforehand would be adequate for a test. Any gun that can fire 6000 rounds without malfunctioning can most likely fire indefinitely without malfunctioning, until something breaks. And keep in mind that the M1911 did this 100 years ago, being built out of the relatively poor grades of steel of the day (steel was greatly improved after WWII, even though no U.S. military M1911 or M1911A1 ever got to take advantage of it, because none were bought after WWII). Also, those things you mentioned are ''potential'' advantages. A potential advantage that isn't used at all is not an actual advantage, obviously.

::30,000 rounds is overkill for a test. Most people will never fire anywhere near that many rounds through their handgun (especially without cleaning), and even if they did, who would want to trust their life to a gun that has 30,000 rounds worth of wear and tear on it? --[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 13:18, 17 December 2011 (CST)

You were arguing the design flaws but it is the design that is one of the big reasons it has such a following. Since you are arguing one view against the other. Why a lot of people think that it is the best. The design is one reason, history is another, the round it fires is yet another reason. I actually don't think it is the best I was merely stating the reasons that it is popular and why people say it is the best. I like the Beretta 92fs for its grip and certain design attributes and the Glock 21sf for different reasons. Would I object to using the 1911 in combat. No. Would I use the Beretta 92fs in combat with FMJ ammo? Not if I didn't have to. With HP ammo, I wouldn't hesitate to use the Beretta. But even your view of other designs being better is subjective. If a pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc...is reliable and fires a moderately effective round then it is a good design. What makes it the best is subjective as far as it goes. What one pistol may be best at is what makes it worst at something else. There is no way to objectively define the "best" just what is better than something else.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 00:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. I don't have any gun in mind that I think is indisputably better than all others. The features I pointed out I did so to demonstrate that in certain aspects the 1911 is inferior to other disigns, not that said other designs are the perfect weapon. Every design is a give and take of different features. Because of this, my main complaint was a pervaisive belief that the 1911 is unquestioningly the greatest gun ever (I have heard that phrase Verbatim in many issues of Guns & Ammo). Is it better in some aspects than double-collumn, double-action 9mm pistols? Yes. Is it better across the board? Absolutly not. I apologize if at any point I have come across as confrontational, it is just that I have heard so many people assert the 1911's complete supremacy so many times that it has really gotten on my nerves and I wanted to know what others thought.

Google "1911"...then google any other gun...now tell me which one has the most varieties...which one has the most after market parts and pieces for the specialist. Which one has the most surplus parts. Its so popular and so famous because if you wanted to you could make one look like no other one or you could make it look like that one in your favorite movie. Not only that but all the diffrent calibers from 45cal to the awesome and unbeatable 10mm. Plus they are sexy as hell. To sum up you can basically have a beautiful, functional, all steel combat pistol in your choice of caliber and its going to feel like a dream in your hands.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:48, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:The madness of crowds surely knows few bounds--just look at how the various bottled water companies manage to make a killing selling what is essentially tap water, because people will do often do things just because enough other people tell them it's a good idea. Then again, I suppose the "cult following" that some pistol-types have over others is due in part to the following facts:

:*Pistols are rarely if ever primary combat weapons anymore, with the exception of law enforcement.
:*Few people who routinely carry pistols have to regularly use them in gun battles against opponents who are earnestly trying to kill them.

:Therefore there aren't many occasions for most pistol-carriers to test their assumptions in the most revealing field of all--life-or-death situations. So depending on your circumstances you can go a lifetime without ever putting the hype in the harsh light of real return-fire. I'd bet on the M1911-type (the "pure" single-stack .45 ACP M1911s) pistols selling so much mostly because of its hype and history, and that it is, at its heart, a serviceable (though hardly optimal) weapon. Given how many clones there are, however, I really must wonder what would have happened had Colt become the sole copyright holder for this pistol type--would we see more innovation that way, or just countless clones of some other pistol type? Perhaps a more revealing, specific question would be "How does the M1911 platform compare to the Glock platform or CZ-75 platform?" That could work because all three are successful pistol types offered in multiple calibers, including 9x19mm, .45 ACP, and 10mm Auto.

:Bottom line? The "pure" M1911 works, but we can certainly do better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:07, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::Exactly

Ok, well answer me this then. Why if the 1911 is all hype and legend does MEUSOC still issue 1911s? Why does Delta give out a stipend to have an operator buy his own custom 1911? Why does the FBI HRT use 1911s? and LAPD SWAT? and so many other groups that use pistols? The reasons the wonder 9s came into popularity are lower recoil (marginal), size (marginal) higher capacity (less training in marksmanship), weight (long since gone by the wayside), to match ammo with other NATO countries (Military), and hype/ cool factor (civilian). The 1911 has served admirably (in one capacity or another) with few major changes to the platform for almost 100 years. The Beretta, Glock, CZ-75, etc. have been redesigned and "improved" since they came out just to try and match the 1911s in popularity, reliability, etc.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 17:30, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

:Sure thing. How many of these operators you mentioned fulfill the conditions I mentioned above, namely that they regularly use pistols as their primary combat weapons instead of SMGs/PDWs/Rifles and often engage in gunfights with earnest, aware opponents? And other combat platforms for the .45 ACP won out, such as the Mk. 23 SOCOM pistol which won out over Colt's version. The "improved" Beretta, Glock, CZ-75 you mentioned have done so to fit consumer demand and market competition, but national armed forces aren't that commercial and competitive most of the time because of how many contracts and vested interests are running the show. I simply said that the "Pure" M1911 platform works when used, but it can be improved, otherwise the Mk.23 SOCOM wouldn't have won the OHWS program. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:05, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::A lot of Special Forces don't even use the Mk. 23 due to its bulky and awkward size. Many Navy SEALs opt to use 9mm SIG-Sauer Pistols

H&K won the competition because they strictly adhered to all of the requirements (some of which were asinine), and they put in the best bid. When USSOCOM received the Mk. 23 they got exactly what they asked for but not what they had actually wanted. The SEALS who used it complained about how it was too big, heavy, and its cons outweighed its pros. They tried to pawn them off on the ARMY but no one there would touch them, so most of them went back to H&K. As with all things military, big brass does not listen to the guys who actually have to use the equipment until its too late.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 06:13, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I would like to toss my thoughts into the mix. Being a Brit getting a hold of a real firearm is harder than getting away with stealing the Popes hat, but I am an avid airsofter and I have held and fired many different types of airsoft pistols ranging from HK USPs, to Glocks, to Berettas, to SIGs. But I still go back to my 1911s to which I have 2 (I'm awaiting delivery of a third). I don't have tiny hands but I don't have big bear hands and the 1911 design feels right in my hands. I use a weaver stance and the 1911 is the best pistol for hand placement in that stance, I had an issue with the Beretta that sometimes my thumb could slip onto the slide locking mechinism and prevent slide lock. With Glocks they felt too top heavy for me, maybe it's how the airsoft Glocks are designed and it's not like that on the Real steel. I used a SIG for quite a while as that felt pretty good, but as soon as I picked up a 1911 I needed one. After a little practice I can draw, remove the safety and bring the pistol up to the target in a little under 2 seconds. Why do I like the 1911 so much? It's all about the placement, the safety is right by your thumb so when you draw it you can use one motion to bring the pistol up and deactivate the safety. I found the Beretta to be a bit of a fumbling job deactivating the safety mid draw. Why the 1911 design is still praised isn't down to some cult following, it's down to simple ergonomics, it looks great, the functionality is great, the placement of everything on the pistol is perfect. I saw someone post that they would rather be able to fire 30,000 shots and not have to clean their pistol rather than 6000. I don't know about you but if I only fired off one shot from my pistol in a battle I would still clean it to make sure nothing is going to cause a problem next time. Better to be safe than sorry. --[[User:Cool-breeze|Cool-breeze]] 17:19, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I think it depends by what you define as 'best', and what you need the gun for. In my mind, if you want an M1911 variant, get a Para-Ordnance LDA. Like the P14.45, but double action. If you want a cheap, reliable, accurate semi-auto, do what everybody else does, get a Glock 17 and stop moaning. Your moaning about not people liking 7-round magazines (we've moved on to higher-capacity ones-in my mind, if armies must use M1911 variants, use Para-Ordnance's. 7 or 8 rounds plus one in the chamber is just awful, and you'll run out quickly.) is making the world of semi-auto's remain stuck in the 20th century. Embrace the future! With pistols like the Caracal, FN Herstal Five-seveN, and many other great ones, it's not half bad.

== Ballester-Molina ==

The Ballester-Molina should not be included in the 1911 page. It's not a 1911, only the mags and barrel interchange. Internally it's based on the Star Model A, which has significant differences from the 1911 in terms of lockwork. Unless anyone objects I'm going to create a separate page for it. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

== Link share ==

Hello there,

This is a question for the webmaster/admin here at www.imfdb.org.

Can I use part of the information from this blog post right above if I give a link back to your site?

Thanks,
Daniel

== Dreamworks Animation ==

When are you guys going to add animated films from Dreamworks like Monsters vs. Aliens and Megamind, because they have guns used by police and the military.

Just because there are guns in it doesn't mean it gets a page here. Are they recognisable as real guns, or are they stylised ones? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

They are real guns in the animated films, like in Monsters vs Aliens, the soldiers used some M16 rifles to shoot at the alien, and in Megamind, the police uses rifles and pistols on aiming the villain, who is walking.

OK, I'm going to assume that you haven't read the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page, most notably [[Rules, Standards and Principles#Anime: Rules & Restrictions|this section]]. Read that, then check back. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

But wait, why do we have video game pages then? Firearms in them barely resemble real ones --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok sorry, no big deal, lets not add cartoons yet, because they have to wait.

:@Jackbel. Because in video games you can clearly identify the guns, and no the good ones do not just 'barely resemble real ones.' As a video game person you should know this, unless Australia has weird rules about depicting guns in video games. The reason cartoons are generally not allowed is because unlike anime, most cartoons have a generic silouette of a 'gun' while most animes have enough detail to be able to determine what guns was used. Think [[Ghost in the Shell]] or [[Cowboy Bebop]].--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==.45 Blanks==

I've read a lot here that .45 blanks used to be unreliable. I was wondering when they started to become a bit more reliable and why they were unreliable? I can't find that anywhere.

I thought it wasn't really the blanks being unreliable so much as it just being easier to blank-convert a 9mm than a .45. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

.45 pistols require more recoil force to cycle their actions than 9mms. Since blank rounds have virtually no recoil, .45s are much harder to convert to use blanks.

Ah right. Is there some new way of converting them now because I've started to notice that in recent years there have been a lot of films using .45 ACP versions of pistols that are also chambered in 9mm. Die Hard 4.0 for example, McClane as a P220 in .45 ACP. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:37, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
:Is it explicitly stated that the prop gun was chambered in .45? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
::''"Is it explicitly stated that the prop gun was chambered in .45"'' We have a pic of the actual screen used gun and is listed as .45 ACP. I think all newer P220s are chambered in .45, only some of the older ones were chambered in 9mm and .38 Super. Also the .45 being unreliable with blanks. I don't think it encompassed all .45 chambered pistols. I think it was only in the 1911 platform. With the 9mm being a much smaller blank and having the large ejection port made for the .45 it was easier to eject them.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:SIGP220R LiveFreeDieHard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SIG-Sauer P220R - .45 ACP. This is the screen used gun in the film and was carried and fired by ''[[Bruce Willis]]''.]]
::: Just checking. Especially after the whole issue with the Glocks. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:54, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Long (and detailed!)story short. For a 1911 to fire blanks reliably you must first drill and tap the barrel for a blank adapter, then taper the barrel hood, then grind off the locking lugs, and remove the barrel linkage. Once that is done, the testing for a reliable adapter and blank combo ensues (you may or may not need to enlarge the ejection port too). I figure its pretty much the same with other pistols...-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

That sounds like a very complex process. I'm assuming if you do that well though the 1911 will cycle blanks as well as 9mm blanks. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:28, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I read an article in a gun magazine a few years back about blanks and it said that it comes down to the casings used. According to the article, blanks are made from rifle brass because it has to be long enough to be crimped and still be long enough to be the length of a real cartridge. The problem with .45 acp ammo is that until recently there was no rifle brass in .45 diameter that could be used for blanks. I remember reading back when "Miami Vice" was on that Timothy La France had brass custom manufactured in .45 for blanks. -- David, 3 December 2010 (well, its the 3rd where I live)

==Laseraim Series III?==

So what is this thing?
[[Image:LaserAimSeriesIIIPistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|LaserAim Series III Pistol - .45 ACP]]
It looks more like a CZ derivative than a 1911 derivative to me... Alot like a mashup of CZ, S&W, Sig, STI, etc..-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 06:51, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
:It draws a little from the S&W series (namely the safety) and CZ-75 (in terms of grip shape), but technically it is a M1911 derivative, they just didn't make many of them.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 07:15, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Used to see these in tv shows during the late 80s. the later model was the first pistol I ever saw with an integral accessory rail on the dust cover, although that was in a catalog. David. 11 December 2010
:::Dust cover? What are you talking about? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
I don't know what else to call it, it is the part of the frame extending in front of the trigger guard. I have seen it, in print referred to as a dust cover. David.

::THIS Laseraim was photographed for the [[Haunted (2002)]] page since it was used in an episode. If you guys read the Haunted (2002) page, for which this IMAGE was originally shot for, the description says: '''Laser Aim was yet another manufacturer who built ported .45 ACP pistol based on the original M1911 design, but incorporating elements of the BHP and the CZ-75 into a new design. The unique feature of the Laser Aim was a hole cut out of the trigger guard ahead of the trigger to mount a laser. Since the production ended for this pistol, smaller lasers with better battery life have been invented. By the late 1990s LaserAim had gone out of business and had sold their patents to AMT. ''' Hope this sheds some light on the piece. It is a new weapon influenced purportedly by M1911, BHP and CZ designs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

Ah, that explains it. Could have saved myself about 2 hrs of google searching if I'd looked up the image uses hah.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:13, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

== MEU(SOC) Pistol... ==
...has been given a new designation, ''M45''. [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/24/m45-close-quarters-combat-pistol/] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

We also need a better image for it, but I can't find one I can't be sure isn't an Airsoft gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:04, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The big problem is there is no single model that is the M45/ MEUSOC Pistol. The "M-45s" in service are a mix and match of Kimbers, Springfields, Colts, etc. The "M-45" is a set of specs that any pistols built for MEUSOC have to comply with. There are SOME retrofitted M1911A1 pistols that were done by USMC Armorers at Quantico, but they are going to be near impossible to differentiate from the M1911A1 they were built from.
Here's a good thread from AR15.com (dear lord its hard to say that haha) about the M-45 MEUSOC pistol variants.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=86667
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 08:46, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

== More proof of the M1911's greatness ==

According to the news, the M1911 is now the official state gun of Utah! This is kind of cool, since John Browning lived in Utah, and it's just in time for the great .45's centennial anniversary. [[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 21:16, 19 March 2011 (CDT)

== Happy 100th Anniversary to the Colt M1911! ==

Happy 100 years of service M1911! Thank you for providing some of the most nastiest knockdown power available to the armed forces and for providing an eternal name of badassery in motion pictures!

Here's looking forward to 100 years more! --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 15:40, 29 March 2011 (CDT)

My favorite semi-auto is the 1911. I've had affairs with others but I always come back to a good ole Colt .45. I didn't understand why until I did some research and figured out we shared a birthday. Still saving for an anniversary model... [[User:USGIMar29|USGIMar29]] 19:40, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

==9mm 1911s==
I'm not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask but could anyone recommend some good 9mm 1911s? I live in Australia and the maximum calibre you can get without doing competition shooting is .38 or 9mm rounds. --[[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 07:07, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Kind of late, but if you're still there GunEnthusiast, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is a Para-Ordnance P18-9, otherwise known as Hitman's gun (well, in the film.). The reason 9mm M1911 variants are so far and few between and rare is that .45 ACP was invented for the gun, and despite no living American being old enough to say they were born before it's creation, most Americans believe a 9mm M1911 is a sin, and that the ghost of John Moses Browning will come and haunt it's makers and buyers. I think. Anyway, the fact the P18-9 is Canadian explains it. No one complete American fully understands Canada. Alasdair.

== Naming the MEU(SOC) pistol ==

On M1911's page (and correspondingly on pages that list the weapon) it is named "M-45 MEUSOC":

1) While calling it "M-45" wouldn't be incorrect, it should be changed to "M45" in line with other officially adopted names on IMFDB;

2) Using "MEUSOC" in conjunction with "M45" is incorrect. It is either "MEU(SOC) Pistol" or "M45 Close Quarters Battle Pistol" / "M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol".

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:46, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:Well, then go change it. ^3^ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:59, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::Will be done right now. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:17, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::I think they are the same pistol. I remember seeing a story about how the MEU(SOC) was reclassified as the M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol at some point, and have also seen documents that use the term M45 MEUSOC (no brackets). What do you think the differences are between the two? I think there is some confusing as there have been various different versions of the MEU(SOC) pistol built from various off the shelf parts. There are at least 5 versions that I know of, and main fetures are as follows. 1: original version with unflared ejection port and Springfield Armoury logo behind the ejection port. 2: newer slide with flared ejection port and logo in front of the ejection port. 3: front slide serrations. 4: wide slide serrations and Novak sights, with grip safety with "bumb" at the bottom. 5: 4th version with skeleton hammer rather than Commander type hammer. You also have the ICQB which is a Kimber made pistol with a railed frame. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:26, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
::::Sorry, just realised I totally misread your original post. Though you were saying that the MEU(SOC) and M45 were different pistols. However, the term M45 MEUSOC (without brackets) is also correct. [https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=df43476377acd40c0f409faa2ceffc9d&_cview=1] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:52, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::Notice the presence of comma between M-45 and MEUSOC. That would indicate the listing of different designations for the weapon. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:27, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::I really don't think the comma means that, but to satisfy you, here [http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2010/03-March/19-Mar-2010/FBO-02095403.htm]. To be fair though, I have seen official documents that refer to the M45 being the MEUSOC, Close Quarters Battle or Close Quarters Combat pistol. I think this whole conversation is irrelevant however, as on looking into it, I think the M45 pistol and the MEU(SOC) pistol listed on this page are different weapons, with the M45 being a commercial of the shelf pistol made by either Colt, Sprinfield Armoury or Karl Lippard Designs. This article from the [http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/01/marine-marsoc-pistol-45cal-012511w/ Marine Corps Times] seems to back this up (this time referring to it as the Close Quarter Battle Pistol) stating that the M45 is modelled on the MEU(SOC) but will be a COTS pistol, which is currently being evaluated. For the sake of simplicity, I think the pistol on this page should just be called the MEU(SOC). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:19, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::::MEUSCOC. Wonder what the first "C" stands for?
:::::::It would have been so much simpler if there was website that chronicles the history of MEU(SOC) pistol. Every variant along with pictures and how they were designated (to distinguish them)... Because currently sources are conflicting. In USMC's [http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/ MCB Quantico] section there is an article "[http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/Sentry/storyview.aspx?SID=4913 The Devil Dogs’ workshop]". There it says M45 Close Quarters Battle Pistol is being built by local armorers. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:50, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

One more issue: sources vary on the year of adoption. Some say 1985[http://www.americanspecialops.com/special-ops-weapons/meusoc-pistol.php][http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm], other say 1986[http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/marinefacts/blsoc.htm][http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=16][http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/meusoc.htm]. Maybe change the part to "since the mid-1980s"? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:53, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

:Done. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:08, 13 October 2011 (CDT)

== A Location of Procuring ==
Does anyone know where you can get one of these great airsoft movie-1911 replicas namly the stunning and slender long-slide?

[[Image:WA490 4 mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Long Slide Jim Hoag M1911A1 replica]]

-[[User:GladeTaylor]]

The image has a watermark from [http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/ ehobbyasia.com] on it, so I'd suggest looking there. The exact pistol is [http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/western-arms-colt-hoag-bianchi-special-gbb-pistol.html here.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:12, 14 December 2011 (CST)

== Organization. ==

Any objections to alphabetizing this page? I think it would make a bit more sense... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:38, 6 December 2011 (CST)
:No don't do that. The M1911 and M1911A1 go first. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:52, 6 December 2011 (CST)
::Fair enough, I actually agree with that. But what about the less common ones. Seems weird to Kimber, Strayer, Inifinity, Detonics, Springfield, etc... What if we keep the most common ones at the top (M1911 & M1911A1) and put the rest in order? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:58, 6 December 2011 (CST)

== Difference between Kimber and Colt. ==

In several medias, I discovered that Colt M1911 can sometimes be referred as the Kimber. Why is it so since the weapon manufacturer is Colt? And is there any difference in the mechanism of gun between the both companies? --[[User:S9771773G|S9771773G]] 21:31, 28 December 2011 (CST)

those medias are just being ignorant with their terminology. Colt makes 1911's and kimber makes 1911's...two diffrent companies that happen to make the same model. Any true diffrences in them will mostly be cosmetic in nature. The biggest diffrence between colt and kimber is that Kimber say Yonkers on it and colt say Hartford. Most people think that colt was the first and only maker of the 1911 and call all 1911's colts no matter of maker...for example someone saying "I own a colt 1911 made by springfield"...well no sir you have a Springfield 1911-A1 and colt has nothing to do with it.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 10:21, 29 December 2011 (CST)

== Airsoft Colt's grips. ==

Maybe it's kinda stupid,but I was wondering,could I install some custom or just another grips on my.. hahaha,Marui's Colt Government spring pistol? ;)
That thought came to me,cause I realised,that mine is 1:1 copy of the real one,so.. maybe,new grips would be possible to install. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 16:17, 22 January 2012 (CST)
: Not sure about the springer, but you can put them on the GBB pistol. Makes the gun much lighter though, as the airsoft grips have metal weights inside them. Seems a bit of a waste doing it on a springer though, the grips would probably be worth more than the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:34, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Yeah,agreed about the price.Thanks for a useful answer.:) [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 16:41, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== When to add here Vs own page ==

What makes the decision between a 1911 variant being including on this page versus having its own page? With this page getting so large seems like some of these guns could have their own page. The [[Star Model B]] has its own page, for example, while the [[Para-Ordnance LDA]] is part of the M1911 page. How is that decision made? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:13, 1 March 2012 (CST)

:The Star B while similar on the exterior, internally it isn't. From the Star Model B talk page ''First, these pistols had no automated grip safety, and no detachable backstrap/mainspring housing. Second, Star pistols had simplified trigger/sear design with single trigger link, and pivoting trigger. Third, external safety swiths locked the hammer, not the sear. Fourth, Star pistols featured exetrnal extractors. Fifth, as noted above, Star A Super and B Super also had different barrel locking/unlocking.'' The page is getting a bit big. They could be split per manufacturer. Colt would stay on this page I guess. Kimber, Para, Springfield etc getting their own. The M16 rifle page is also getting too big, it often kicks me out of it. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:25, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::That makes sense! Yea I've got a pretty good connection here but when it takes over a minute for a page to load, time to split them up... I like your idea of doing them by manufacturer and we can always have a '''See Also''' at the bottom. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:31, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:::Maybe make thread on it in the forums. Most probably won't go for it though. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:02, 1 March 2012 (CST)

== British M1911 ==

I understand a series of M1911's were modified to fire .455 Webley Auto rounds. Can anyone give more information about this? Like is it suppressor adaptable? Who used it? Etc, etc.
:It was mainly used by the Royal Navy (although imagine the Army got hold of a few) and 11,000 were made from 1915 to 1916. I doubt a standard pistol can take a suppressor as it was a WWI service pistol so had no need for one but imagine it could be threaded for one, which I would not recommend as it is a relatively valuable pistol you would be messing with. I think the mags are pretty pricey as well, as they are not standard .45 ones as the .455 Webley Auto Mk I was slightly longer than the .45 ACP. An interesting fact about this pistol (to me anyway) is that it can be legally owned in the UK due to the fact that it was made before 1919 and uses a cartridge that is deemed as not readily available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:56, 9 March 2012 (CST)

Talk:You Are Empty

2012-03-28T07:11:14Z

Alasdair: Created page with " == Eh? == Can someone please explain the plot of this game to me? Is it just another one of those games where the guy wakes up, and there's no-one else left in the world but hi..."

== Eh? ==

Can someone please explain the plot of this game to me? Is it just another one of those games where the guy wakes up, and there's no-one else left in the world but him/everybody else are zombies? Please help. Alasdair.

User talk:Alasdair

2012-03-26T06:35:18Z

Alasdair:

User talk:Alasdair

2012-03-24T08:11:26Z

Alasdair:

User talk:Fixer

2012-03-24T08:05:58Z

Alasdair:

== Army advice ==

Dear Fixer

Hello. My name is Alasdair. I've been a member of this site for a few months now. I am myself British and also thinking of joining our Great British Army's ranks. However, there is one downside. If I'm to join, I want to be a sniper (I'd really hate to be a regular infantryman-no offense Fixer or any ordinary soldier who looks at this, you guys are doing a great job, it's just not for me, and the amount of recoil that comes from being a light machine gunner would break my shoulder-and I cannot drive anything), so really it's either sniper or commander. And as sniper seems more likely, that's the route I've chosen. The problem is that I am short sighted, and rely on glasses to see things at distance. Can I still be a sniper even with glasses? I've looked around on the internet and found yes, no, use laser eye surgery (which is too expensive-£395 per eye!) and no because the glint reveals their position to the enemy. But I feel as if I should ask you these two questions:

One: Can you be a sniper if you are short-sighted? If so, how?
Two: Is sniper training more or less intense than the standard army training? Because I'm not the fittest of men.

Much appreciated
Alasdair

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alasdair

Cheers for getting in touch mate, I'll be glad to answer your questions. To be a sniper, (I haven't yet applied) I think we would both have to train as infantry men. You need not worry however, as if you apply to be a sniper on your application form, I think you train as it for your Phase 2 training. The army will also teach you how to drive, by the way. I too do not have perfect vision. When I thought about applying for the Royal Navy as a Warfare Specialist, it was compulsory for me to have an eye test, which I think the Army would give you a voucher for (to be done in Boots, as I recall). They suggested that I be fitted for contact lenses. If you haven't been tested yet, they require your eyesight to be within -6 to +6 diopters, which is the measurement for long/short sight. Providing you pass that, you should be alright. I came back with about -1.6 in my one eye and -2.3 in the other, and I occasionally wear glasses. I agree, laser eye surgery is bloody expensive, and if you do get it, you have to wait six months after the operation to be able to start or continue an application. I'm not sure about the glint off the glasses, I'd imagine so, but you are on a site packed full of gun-experts, I'm sure they would be able to answer that question :) When you say commander do you mean officer or Commando? (Sorry, by commander i meant tactician. Alasdair.)

To answer your questions Alisdair, I am unsure whether you can be a sniper if you are short sighted. Your best guess is to ask the ArmyJobs page on Facebook, but I think if you pass the eye test, you should be alright. They recommend you switch to contact lenses instead of glasses, as contacts are more likely not to get in your way during training. As for sniper training, I'd imagine it would be infantry training, along with learning how to use the scope on a sniper. Like I say, I haven't applied yet, so don't take my word as gospel. As for you not being "the fittest of men", I'm not either, so what I would suggest is to start exercising. Don't join a gym if you can't afford it, just go out running with your headphones and a water bottle.

The best thing you should do, is find your nearest AFCO (Armed Forces Career Office) and ask them.

If you have anymore questions, I'd be more than happy to try and answer them. Contact me on MSN - rjcashman@live.co.uk

Cheers for getting in touch mate, and I hope it all goes well :)
Fixer

User talk:Alasdair

2012-03-24T08:04:10Z

Alasdair:

Talk:Patton

2012-03-21T16:34:05Z

Alasdair:

== Patton's guns and the actual hero guns from ''Patton'' ==
I've been to the Patton museum and seen these handguns. It's a great museum if you ever get the chance.
All photographs courtesy of the Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor, Fort Knox, KY.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:59, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Holster 02.jpg|thumb|350px|none| General Patton's sidearms and his actual leather gear]]
[[Image:PattonPistol 02.jpg|thumb|none|350px| the top revolver is the prop from the movie. The bottom one is Patton's]]
[[Image:PattonPistol 03.jpg|thumb|none|350px| the top is Patton's registered magnum and the bottom is the hero gun.]]

:- Awesome stuff, Jcordell - Thanks for sharing! [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:25, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Glad you liked it. A little more info. The Colt Single Action is serial number 332088. It was manufactured in 1916 and purchased by Patton that same year. I believe it was a special order by him.

The S&W .357 Registerd Magnum was purchased by Patton in 1935 when he was stationed in Hawaii. The .357 Registerd Magnum was strictly customer order only and would have been very expensive for 1935. So that revolver was made strictly for him and all the features (trigger adapter, patridge front sight,3.5" barrel)were what he ordered. The Registered Magnum model was introduced in 1935 which makes Patton's probably one of the first ones made. Patton was actually very well off and sometimes irritated his fellow officers with his luxurious lifestyle. Especially during the depression when money was so tight for many. To include the U.S. Army. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:17, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Patton actually bought his Colt Single Action Army when he was serving under General John "Black Jack" Pershing and first used it in the pursuit of Pancho Villa. Patton killed three of Villa's men and brought them back to Pershing. Pershing dubbed Patton his "Little Bandito".[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 16:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

==Moved From Main Page==

''Correction: this was not a 27, it was a Registered Magnum==''
''The Model 27 did not exist until 1959. Prior to WW2 the pistol was named "The Registered Magnum".''

''The Smith & Wesson Patton carried wasn't yet called the Model 27. They were known as Registered Magnums, the first of the 357s and special order. I'm not sure about the one in the movie, but notice the hammer difference in the movie picture. Patton I believe called his Registered Magnum his "killing gun."''

: For the record I think we know the gun is a "Registered Magnum", but I think it was noted under 'Model 27' since all the RM is is an early variant of it, and the Model 27 made it easier to list and categorize (We do the same for M&P revolvers, which are merely early Model 10s). ''That said'', we do still note early M&P guns as M&P in the articles so perhaps we should note the gun as 'Registered Magnum' here, which is what I've done. However, I should note that is not appropriate to correct the entry solely because it fits the time-line on a film/media that takes place in the past, as movies often use newer (often anachronistic) guns to take their place as long as they're similar, there are many examples. In this case, the above picture of the movie gun looks like an actual RM so the commenters are correct in this case. Still, you can't assume they HAVE to use a certain gun because of the film's setting. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:01, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

== M14? ==

According to IMDb, one of the soldiers in the congestion has an M14. Can anyone confirm this? I think the picture is on this page.

''At 2:08:46 in the movie, during the congestion at a crossroads there is a close up of the chaos. A soldier with rolled up sleeves can be seen standing on the hood and fender of a Command Car number 378(?)554 holding what appears to be an M14 Rifle. This weapon is a modified M1 Garand, and is visibly similar to the M1 Carbine used in WWII except that it is bulkier, the sling is attached to the bottom of the butt with a swivel, and the magazine is larger than that of the M1 Carbine due to the longer ammunition it uses. The M14 came into use in the 1957, and not during WWII.''

: Here's some stills. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 19:55, 20 March 2012 (CDT)
[[File:Patton 1305.jpg|thumb|none|800px|The soldier on the far left.]]
[[File:Patton 1306.jpg|thumb|none|800px|Another still.]]

== Proper weapon placement ==

Why is the MAS-36 under the submachine gun category when it is clearly a rifle? Please move.

Talk:Walther PP Pistol Series

2012-03-21T16:30:57Z

Alasdair:

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:AustinPowersPPKscreenused1.JPG‎|thumb|400px|none|One of the actual custom Walther PPK/S pistols used by [[Mike Myers]] on all three of the ''Austin Powers'' movies. - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:AustinPowersPPKscreenused2.JPG‎|thumb|400px|none|Another one of the actual custom Walther PPK/S pistols used by [[Mike Myers]] in the ''Austin Powers'' movies. - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:Walther-PPK.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Walther PPK - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:Opb-layout-licence-to-kill-ppk-pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px|James Bond's Hero Walther PPK - .32ACP. Note the eagle engraved on the slide, the smaller rear sight, the lanyard ring, and the irregular front, indicating that this particular pistol was manufactured in Nazi Germany.]]
[[Image:Bruni8mmPolicePPK.jpg|thumb|none|350px|A Bruni/BBM "ME-8 Police" 8mm blank firing gun (used to impersonate a [[Walther PPK]])]]
[[Image:IMFDB P00263 Sopranos Christopher Walther PPK S.jpg|thumb|none|350px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Walther PPK/S - .380 ACP pistol. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[Michael Imperioli]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. More detailed images and purchasing information on this item can be found at [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TGC&Product_Code=P00263&Category_Code= here].]]
[[Image:Walther ppk rzm.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Gold plated Walther PPK with ivory grips]]

- Surprisingly, this image, used throughout the site, isn't listed on the PP series Main page, or here in the Talk page. So, I'll post it here. Being that it was uploaded by MPM, and given it's appearance, I figure it's a screen-used weapon, but I don't really know - perhaps someone can enlighten me. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:15, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I looked up the Walther PPK on the Long Mountain Outfitters and it turns out that the one pictured above is the screen gun used by Sean Connery AND Roger Moore as James Bond. Here's the picture of it they had on the site: [[User:jackbel]]

[[Image:PPK 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

==Other==

How common are the .22 and .25 versions of this weapon? I ask because it seems the only versions one ever sees are the .32 and .380 models.

Is the Walter PPK a good gun or just iconic?

I'm rather curious about the answer to the question the anonymous user put above. Would you guys still consider a PPK a useful concealed personal defense weapon? seems like today a spy would want something like a Walther PPS or a SIG P239 which are pretty small and use 9mm rounds instead -- [[User:Mdw|Mdw]] 14:53, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

In the novels, the PPK was never intended to be the main weapon. It was intended to be a small light pistol that Agents could easily conceal, and carry around in case of trouble. If they were knowingly heading into a hazardous situation, then they would carry a larger weapon in a heavier caliber. Even though the PPK was available in .380 acp back then, they still preferred the .32 acp. Bullet placement was considered more important, and the .32 is easier to fire in a small pistol. --[[User:Krel|Krel]] 20:58, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

== Brausch ==

In the first James bond film, James is given a Walther PPK and told that it 'accepts a Brausch suppressor like a duck to water'. What are Brausch suppressors? I've searched the internet and I cannot find either a website or a place to buy them. Do they even exist? Were they better than the normal suppressors of the day? Please help.

Talk:M1911 pistol series

2012-03-09T21:17:22Z

Alasdair:

==Additional Variants==
===Screen Used===
[[Image:EnemyofState1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Screen-used original Colt M1911 pistol wielded by [[Gene Hackman]]'s character Brill in ''[[Enemy of the State]]'', serial #357414 (photo from Long Mountain Outfitters).]]
[[Image:M1911WeWereSoldiers.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Screen used M1911 pistol (Hero Gun) carried and used by [[Sam Elliott]] as Command Sergeant Major Basil Plumley in ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1WeWereSoldiers.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Screen Used Hero Gun M1911A1, carried by [[Mel Gibson]] as Lt. Col. Hal Moore in the film ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' - .45 ACP. Provided by Cinema Weaponry.]]
[[Image:ColtMkIVSilver DeNiro Machete.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Custom engraved nickel plated Colt MKIV Series 80 with pearl grips - .45 ACP. This is the screen used pistol for [[Robert De Niro]] playing Senator McLaughlin in the upcoming Robert Rodriguez film [[Machete]] (scheduled for release on April 16, 2010). ]]
[[Image:ColtCustomXXX.jpg‎|thumb|450px|none|This is the screen used Colt XSE M1911 Pistol, wielded, carried (and lost) by August Gibbons ([[Samuel L. Jackson]]) in the film ''[[XXX 2: State of the Union]]''. This pistol has a customized slide with the initials "A G" etched (for "Augustus Gibbons") and also has the logo for SEAL TEAM 4 in the center - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:T2M1911detonicsprop.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The Colt/Detonics M1911A1 Series 70 hybrid pistol used in the film ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' - 9x19mm.]]
[[File:Saradet.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Detonics 1911 used in the film ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]''. Image courtesy of ScreeUsed.com]]
[[Image:SCM1911A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The stainless Springfield Armory M1911A1 used by [[Benicio del Toro|Benico Del Toro]] as Detective Jack Rafferty in the film ''[[Sin City]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:TitanicM1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A Nickel-Plated ''[[Titanic]]'' M1911 from Stembridge Gun Rentals - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:P1010522ig5.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Actual D&L Sports Professional Model Longslides - .45 ACP movie props used by the Comedian [[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]] in ''[[Watchmen]]''.]]
[[Image:Wanted_21.JPG|thumb|none|450px|The Safari Arms Matchmaster used by [[Angelina Jolie]] in the film ''[[Wanted]]'' - .45 ACP. Note Safari Arms Lion logo.]]
[[Image:IMG 1666.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP used on ''[[The Unit]]''. The weapon pictured here was the actual Warrior carried and fired by Dennis Haysbert in the last season.]]
[[Image:IMG 1534.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Another Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP was used in the most recent season of ''[[The Unit]]''. This was Dennis Haysbert's backup weapon in case the first failed (it is customary in Hollywood for each "hero" gun use to have at least one backup on set).]]
[[Image:BDSIIParas-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A pair of Para-Ordnance SSPs (.45 ACP) as used in ''[[The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day]]''. The weapons pictured here were the actual screen-used guns handled and fired by Clifton Collins, Jr. in the film; note the custom grips, golden suppressors, and "El Jefe" engraved into the slides. ''(Big thanks to [[Al Vrkljan]] at Movie Armaments Group for this IMFDB Exclusive image!)'']]
[[Image:ShootEmUp-HammersonNiteTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac (.45 ACP) used in ''[[Shoot 'Em Up]]''. The weapon pictured here is one of the actual screen-used guns from the film; note the engraved Hammerson logo. ''(Big thanks to [[Al Vrkljan]] at Movie Armaments Group for this IMFDB Exclusive image!)'']]
[[Image:1911-The Getaway.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Government Commercial M1911 - .45 ACP used by [[Steve McQueen]] in the film ''[[Getaway, The (1972)]]''.]]
[[Image:M&MSColtXSEusedinfilm.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The Colt M1911A1 XSE - .45 ACP used in the film ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]''.]]
[[Image:ColtM1911A1PunisherProps.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The two blank firing prop custom Colt M1911A1s used in the film ''[[Punisher, The (2004)]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:NashBridges1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Nash Bridges' Custom 1911 - .38 Super. This is the actual pistol that was used by [[Don Johnson]] in the show ''[[Nash Bridges]]''.]]
[[Image:Colt-M1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The actual M1911A1 [[Pierce Brosnan]] used in ''[[The World Is Not Enough]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SerenityM191A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Jayne Cobb's Mocked-Up Custom M1911A1 - .45 ACP used in the film ''[[Serenity]]''.]]
[[Image:P00654 1911 Full Left.jpg|thumb|none|450px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used Colt M1911 with Nickel-plated and pearl grips - .45 ACP pistol. This non-firing prop weapon is verified as screen used from the film '''[[The Other Guys]]'''. The gun is accompanied by the Galco shoulder holster and clip pouch also used in numerous scenes from the film. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TGC&Product_Code=P00654&Category_Code=OtherGuys here].]]
[[Image:IMG 1509.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A Strayer Voight Infinity - .45 ACP. This is one of the actual guns that has been used by The Company henchmen on ''[[Heroes]]''; this weapon was supplied to the show by Independent Studio Services and has been used on every season.]]
[[Image:Expendable-kimber-b.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Modified Kimber Gold Combat II used by [[Sylvester Stallone‎]] in ''[[Expendables, The|The Expendables]]'' - .45 ACP]]

[[Image:IMG 0444.JPG|thumb|none|450px|[[M1911|Colt MK IV Series 80]] - .45 ACP This was used in the film ''[[Street Kings]]'' and the series ''[[Chase]]'' and ''[[Dark Blue]]''.]]

===Airsoft Variants===
[[Image:GP WE M1911Peral lg.jpg|thumb|none|450px|An airsoft reproduction of the Springfield Armory M1911-A1 made by J-Armoury (Western Arms) used in the film ''[[Se7en]]''.]]
[[Image:CobrGold1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Perfect airsoft replica of [[Cobra]]'s Colt GC National Match - 9mm Pistol made by Western Arms.]]
[[Image:Htk1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft replica of Storm's M1911A1 from ''[[Hard to Kill]]'' - made by Western Arms.]]
[[Image:WA-WLUF_2_mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Replica of Castor Troy's custom Springfield Armory M1911-A1 - .45 ACP from the film ''[[Face/Off]]''.]]
[[Image:WA490 4 mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Long Slide Jim Hoag M1911A1 replica - .45 ACP, very similar to what Frank ([[James Caan]]) used in the film ''[[Thief]]''.]]
[[Image:Snake_.45-2.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Sheriff Co. "Custom M1911" Airsoft Gun - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SAProTac.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Airsoft replica of a Springfield Armory Loaded - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:Baby1.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Airsoft WE HiCapa 5.1 Full Metal Dragon Custom M1911 (Type B) Black Model with blue LED lights in the grip - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Detonics CombatMaster M1911 airsoft.jpg|450px|thumb|none|WE "Caspian Arms" M1911 replica of a Detonics CombatMaster M1911 or a Colt Officer's ACP - .45ACP]]
[[Image:Colt M1911.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Yu Teng 'YT385' replica of the original Colt M1911A1 model - .45ACP]]

===Other Replicas===
[[Image:Snake_.45.JPG|thumb|none|450px|CGI rendering of the Springfield Operator from the game [[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]] - .45 ACP]]

===Other Variants===
[[File:M1911A1PreWar.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Detailed screenshot of prewar M1911A1]]
[[Image:Kimber_Ultra_Crimson_Carry_II.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Kimber Ultra Carry Crimson II - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Kongsberg M1914.JPG|thumb|450px|none|Kongsberg M1914 - .45 ACP. The Kongsberg M/1914 is a Colt M1911 pistol produced under license by the Norwegian factory Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk, with a minor modification to the slide stop and stock.]]
[[Image:.38Super1911MachinePistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The real-life Dillinger's .38 Super M1911A1 Machine Pistol, for comparison purposes.]]
[[Image:SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 1911 PISTOL.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory M1911A1 mil-spec stainless - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:SpringfieldArmoryM1911A1stainless.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory M1911A1 "Mil-Spec" - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ED 45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AMT Hardballer Longslide with laserlock sight as used in the film ''[[The Terminator]]'' - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:AMT_Hardballer_Hitman_Replica.jpg|390px|thumb|none|A near-perfect, firing, replica of the "Silverballers" from the Hitman series.]]

[[Image:MilSpec-1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Mil-spec M1911A1 - .45 ACP. This was one of the most commonly seen .45s used by LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom TLE II.]]
[[Image:0862731R.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1911A1 Commercial (Same marks of the movie's pistol) - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:PC9111.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Professional 1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1ithaca.jpg|thumb|none|450px|World War II Ithaca made M1911A1 with light grey finish - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:PublicEnemies1.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Pre-War Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP used on ''[[Public Enemies]]'' (2009)]]
[[Image:SW1911pd.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911PD Tactical Rail - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:1911 Longslide.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP. This model is very similar to the one in the episode on the ''[[Miami Vice (TV Series)]]''.]]
[[Image:Colt45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1911A1 .45 ACP with Pachymar grips]]
[[Image:Taurus PT1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Taurus PT1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Bruni8mm.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Bruni M1911A1-style blank firing stage prop - 8mm blank.]]
[[Image:Para1911G.I..jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para 1911 G.I. Expert - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SA_loaded_m1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Loaded M1911A1 - .45 ACP similar to the one used by Sydney Bristow from ''[[Alias]]''.]]
[[Image:Peter-1-5006-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Federal Ordnance PSP-07 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:TIKI.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Strayer Voight Infinity TIKI - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:CustomM1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom Colt Series 80 M1911A1 pistol similair to one in the film ''[[Street Kings]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:LaserAimSeriesIIIPistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|LaserAim Series III Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:KimberUltraRaptor.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Kimber Stainless Ultra Raptor - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Para645LDA.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para-Ordnance 6.45 LDA with spare magazines - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ColtDefenderRIGHT83.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Defender - .45 ACP was similar to the one used in the game ''[[Uncharted 2: Among Thieves]]''.]]
[[Image:GM45M1911A1-3.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Hybrid 1911 "Gladys" fitted with a nickel plated three cut compensator - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Delta 001.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt Delta Elite - 10mm Auto]]
[[Image:SM178017.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911 Pro Series - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:SW108282.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:KimberWarrior.jpg|450px|thumb|none|Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP like the one in the show ''[[24 - Season 8|24]]''.]]
[[Image:FLX 2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Nighthawk FLX - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Triple_Tap_IMM_Open_pistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|This SVI 1911 - .45 ACP is almost exactly like the one used in the film ''[[Triple Tap]]''. The description on the website reads, "IMM Open pistol made of carbon steel with Titanium compensator." (Picture supplied by sviguns.com)]]
[[Image:NiteTac.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:1911WideSpur.png|thumb|none|450px|Springfield GI 1911 A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ColtM1991A1L.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt M1991A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:The Veteran Colt 1991A1 Series 80.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Colt M1991A1 Series 80 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M1911A1USAF.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Black Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Springfield_ultra_compact.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Springfield Armory Ultra Compact - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:PX9105MLP.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Loaded MC Operator - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Springfield Armory 1911 Lightweight Operator.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Springfield Armory 1911 Lightweight Operator - .45 ACP]]
[[image:Razorcat.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Limcat Custom 2011 RazorCat - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Sight-Tracker.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Strayer Voigt Infinity Sight Tracker - .40 S&W. This is one of 10 pistols custom made by SVI for the television show ''[[Top Shot - Season 3|Top Shot]]''.]]

[[Image:MV_Tiki.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Crockett loads up his [[Strayer Voight Infinity TIKI]].]]
[[Image:Infinity_tiki1911.jpg‎|thumb|300px|none|SVI TIKI.]]
[[File:Para P14 Limited.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Para Ordnance P14 Limited, early model with vertical slide serrations - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Kimber ICQB.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Kimber MCSOCOM ICQB - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Umarex 1911 blank firer right side.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Umarex Colt Government 1911 A1, right side showing the external extractor and slide markings - 9mm P.A.K. blanks]]

==Video game appearances of this pistol series==

Why is it that the "Video Game appearances" tables have a column named "Passwords"? I don't think it's for passwords to unlock them, because to my knowledge very few video games actually have a password system to unlock weapons. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a "Notes" after the "Mods" section where certain pertinent but miscellaneous information can be written, such as what copyright-infringement-avoiding name it goes under in the game, or whether it is chambered in a non-standard caliber?

I'd like this cleared up. Oh, and someone needs to include a note saying that "mods" is short for "modifications/customizations for the weapon," not "downloadable modifications to the game itself."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 06:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Frankly I think both the "Mods" and "Passwords" sections can go, since the latter is pointless and the former's purpose can be adequately served by "Notes". --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 15:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

==Colt Government Model Section==
With regard to the following sentence:

''"Aside from Colt selling the M1911A1 to the US military, the gun was also sold under the name "Colt Government Model" to the civilian market, and called the "Pre-Series 70" guns today."''

First, the Colt Government Model was introduced in 1912, and as such, it was originally in the M1911 configuration. When the U.S. Military switched to the M1911A1 configuration in the mid 1920s, Colt began manufacturing their Government Models in the M1911A1 configuration as well. So early Government Models parallel the military's M1911 configuration, while later Government Models (after the mid 1920s) parallel the military's M1911A1 configuration. Additionally, not only pre-Series 70 guns are Government Models. Series 70 and Series 80 guns are both Government Models. In fact, Colt still makes the Government Model to this day in various configurations.

With regard to the following sentence:

''"For IMFDB purposes, this can also be referred to as an M1911A1. In this manner, there is no need to list film, television, anime, video games in this section."''

It is sloppy to refer to a Colt Government Model as an M1911A1. "M1911A1" is the U.S. Military designation for a particular type of gun, and most of them were not even made by Colt (Remington Rand [the typewriter company] made most of them). I can see referring to a gun as an "M1911 type" or "M1911A1 type" if the manufacturer can't be determined, but when you simply type "M1911" or "M1911A1" you are referring to a U.S. Military contract pistol.

On top of that, the pictured gun in the Colt Government Model section is not even a "Pre-Series 70", it is a pre-enhanced Series 80 Government Model.

--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

:So it's like how we don't call it the Beretta M9, we call it the Beretta 92FS. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 03:52, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

::With the M9 vs. 92FS situation, it is next to impossible to tell the difference between the two onscreen, unless there is a closeup allowing one to read the markings. In such cases I would say, if a civilian character is using the gun, it is probably intended to be a 92F or 92FS. If a military character is using it, it is probably intended to be an M9, regardless of what the actual prop is. I would assume that most—if not all—movie and TV props are actually 92Fs or 92FSs, because I don't believe that actual M9s have ever been made available for civilian sale.

::With the M1911 or M1911A1 vs. the Colt Government Model (or other brands of 1911-type guns), it is usually possible to tell the difference onscreen without being able to read the markings. For example, the Colt Government Model does not have a lanyard loop. Most M1911A1s were parkerized, while no Government Models were parkerized. When dealing with more modern Government Models, there are even more differences. For example, starting in 1950, Government Models started coming with a full-shelf thumb safety; while all M1911[A1]s had partial-shelf thumb safeties. Also at this time, Government Models started being given a finish with polished flats and matte radiuses, while blued and Du-Lite (similar to bluing in appearance) M1911A1s had polished radiuses and brushed flats or entirely polished (depending on the manufacturer and/or time of manufacture); and of course the more common parkerized M1911A1s were simply all matte.

::Additionally, the newer Government Models as mentioned above have narrow hammers with polished sides left "in the white", and polished chamber hoods also left "in the white". Many M1911A1s had wide-spur hammers, and the ones that had narrow hammers were fully finished (no polished "in the white" sides) and they all had fully blued barrels, including the otherwise parkerized ones (no polished "in the white" chamber hoods).

::Most of the Government Models you see onscreen from the early 70s to the mid-to-late '80s were actually 9mm versions, though they were usually representing a "forty-five" onscreen. This had to do with reliable functioning with readily available 9mm blanks. Colt introduced the 9mm version of the Government Model when they introduced the Series 70 in the early 1970s, and the 9mm version of the CGM had a lowered ejection port (while the .45 ACP version still had the standard military style ejection port). With the introduction of the Series 80 Government Model in 1983, the .45 ACP version also got a lowered ejection port. No M1911[A1] had a lowered ejection port.

::I'll give an example. In the show Magnum, P.I., his gun is blued with polished flats and matte radiuses; polished "in the white" chamber hood and hammer sides, and a lowered ejection port. It is clear from looking that the gun is a Series 70 Colt Government Model chambered for 9mm (though it was always addressed as a "forty-five" in the show's dialogue); and is definitely not an M1911A1. Recently the gun came up for auction and is now in the NRA's National Firearms Museum, and it has been confirmed that that is exactly what the main prop gun was (serial # 70L33101 to be exact).

::--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

==Primary M1911 description==
Who wrote this? The historical paragraph (on the background of the M1911) implies that the M1911 was replaced by the U.S. Military AFTER Operation Desert Storm (1991) which is not true. The Beretta M92 (M9) was already approved and adopted by 1985.

Well for a period of time both the 1911 and M9 were in use by the U.S. military,therefore just because the M9 was in service does'nt mean it replaced the 1911 by that time, and for awhile soldiers actualy got to choose which weapon they prefered :o [[User:Leadback|Leadback]]
======================================
The Beretta M9 officially replaced the M1911 in 1985. They still used the M1911, but they weren't buying anymore. They simply phased them out over the years. Now there are some units in the US military that still use the M1911. The M9 is really only used by conventional military nowadays. For example, the Navy SEALs don't even use the M9 or M1911 anymore. They have the H&K MK23 Mod 0. Which is a purpose-built USP .45. I've even heard of some SEALs using the Ruger Mk. II. It's a .22 target pistol with an integrated silencer on it.

Soldiers were never given the choice to choose. They were given the M9, but many didn't like it. It was big, many could not shoot it accurately, and lots contested the effectiveness of the 9x19 round. Lots of people I work with were in the military around the time of the switch, were given the M9, hated it, and decided just to keep carrying the M1911. It wasn't until they were given an official order that they were forced to carry the M9. And even there, there were times when they went back to the M1911s the military had stored up. For example, out in the deserts. The magazines the military bought were junk, got sand in them, and jammed. The M1911 functioned perfectly. Same thing is happening over there now.

wrong. Special Operations soldiers are given their choice of a sidearm( and assault rifle). 1stSFOD-D has been using 1911s since foundation. infact Larry Vickers (Nighthawk Customs) has worked very closely with Delta Force. Nighthawk 1911s are being used by Delta. 2- the Seals in Vietnam started out with the Ruger Mk II Suppressed. and know one still used the HK MK23. it was fazed out years ago because of how bulky it is. SEALs use the Sig Sauer P226 or USPs. but that is still a generalization. because all SOF have a choice in sidearm [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:20, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Para-Ordance==
Shouldnt these guns get their own page? Sure they are a 1911 varients, but their made by a totally different company.[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]] 00:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, but they're 1911 variants. This is the M1911 pistol series page, and they are 1911s. That's why they are on here. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::I would prefer the Para Ordnance series of pistols have their own page due PRIMARILY to the fact that the Paras have a whole slew of different calibers that other M1911 makes and models don't have [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

What calibers does para have that other 1911 manufactures do not have?--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

On the main page, the LDA entry claims that some of the LDA models were made DA/SA with an exposed hammer, but that isnt true is it? I thought all the LDA were Double Action Only, with the exposed hammer simply for aesthetic reasons? -MissySummers-

== The M in the page title ==

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the M in the page title incorrect? These are Colt 1911s (or 1911a1s, etc.), not Colt M1911s, unless referred to by US military nomenclature, just the same way that a Beretta 92f is an M9 only to the US Army and a SIG Sauer P228 is an M11 only in USAF terms. Just because it's the model of 1911 doesn't make it an M1911, any more than a '67 Shelby GT500 is an M67 Shelby GT500.[[User:YourMessageHere|YourMessageHere]] 08:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
::No. The Colt pistol was formally adopted by the Army on March 29, 1911, thus gaining its designation, M1911 (Model of 1911). Only examples or prototypes prior to the year 1911 would NOT have the M designation (which is extremely rare). Between the years of 1907 and 1910 the Colt pistol was constantly being modified and re-designed to win the Army's trials for adoption of a new handgun. The gun was only mass produced AFTER winning the Army's pistol trials. The Beretta 92FS was already famous world wide and was commercially available as the 92F/FS for YEARS before the Army adopted it. Every 1911 design came AFTER the M1911 (aka Model of 1911) so it is the correct nomenclature. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Using "1911" to refer to any and all pistols based on the M1911 design has only been popular for about fifteen years. Prior to that, the vast majority of such pistols were Colts, and were usually called "Colt .45s", even if they were pistols made by wartime contractors like Remington Rand. Those commercial guns that weren't made by Colt, as made by Vega, Randall, Federal Ordnance, Essex, etc., were called "clones", as they were generally close copies of the Colt. When makers started adding previously "custom" features to production-line guns, and branching into areas that Colt hadn't, a new name was needed, and "1911" became popular. The problem that I have with the various names on the site is the mixing of military and commercial designations; a gun cannot be a "M1911A1 Government Model", as M1911A1 is a military designation, and Government Model is what Colt has always called the civilian version of the "M" military pistols. Colt has made M1911s (1912-circa 1924), M1911A1s (circa 1926-1945), and Government Models (1912-date), but you can't mix or combine those names without confusing the issue.

==Caliber question==
I thought I would ask permission before making this change considering how important this article is: in the specifications category the caliber is listed solely as .45 ACP. I was wondering whether or not that should be changed to include .380 ACP, .38 Super, 9mm, and .40 S&W?
:-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

No, since the ORIGINAL Colt M1911 is .45 ACP Caliber, it should stay like that, since copies of the M1911 maybe have different calibers those should be put on the "copy" section

Agreed --[[PunisherDave]]

==M1991 Series==
I was wondering: what exactly is the difference between the 1911 series and the 1991 series? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 17:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Colt introduced (announced) the M1991A1 in 1991 as a sort of economy version of the Government Model, resembling the military M1911A1, and with the serial numbers picking up where the military gun left off after WWII. The gun was made in that form until about 2003, at which time the finish was changed to polished blue rather than matte blue, and the black rubber grips replaced with checkered wood.
:I heard a guy explain on youtube that 1991 got "extra safety feature" which blocked firing pin movement entirely when trigger was not pressed; allegedly this modification appeared after a incident involving police officer accidentally killing suspect while snapping him with the gun. However, this modification somehow managed to eject firing pin from the slide during decocking so only few people liked it --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
::The YouTube guy doesn't know what he's talking about. The Colt M1991A1 did have the Series 80 firing pin safety, but this was introduced on all Colt Government Models in the early 1980s when the Series 80 version replaced the Series 70. The modification has never caused any problems, aside from perhaps complicating the trigger pull slightly, making it a little more difficult to achieve a good "trigger job". Also, the Series 80 parts are easily removed (and normally a few other minor things are done), and the gun will function just fine, in the same manner as a pre-Series 80 gun. The Series 80 firing pin safety wasn't prompted by any specific accidental police shooting. The only thing a non-Series 80 1911-type gun can accidentally shoot due to the lack of a firing pin safety is the ground. In other words, if a non-Series 80 1911-type gun is dropped from a significantly high height (6 feet or so I believe) directly onto its muzzle, the firing pin can continue forward with enough inertia to dent the primer, thus firing the gun (into the ground of course).

::It is too bad that Colt went to the trouble of designing the Series 80 modifications back in the early '80s, because the remote risk of accidental discharge as I described above is more easily solved by simply using a titanium firing pin (rather than the usual steel firing pin) along with a different weight firing pin spring. Since the titanium firing pin weighs less than a steel one, it has less inertia, and a 1911 so-equipped will pass the drop test just fine. In fact, Colt now uses titanium firing pins on their Series 70 Government Models that they started reissuing several years ago. If Colt had thought of the titanium firing pin idea back in the early '80s, they wouldn't have had to make any actual changes to the legendary 1911 design (changes which annoyed a lot of people), and they might not have lost so much of the 1911 market.

::Now, about the M1991A1: it went through a few different incarnations, but it originally was simply an economy version of the Series 80 Colt Government Model. Instead of the polished blue finish of the Government Model (polished flats and matte radiuses), it had an all-matte blue finish. It also had really cheap plastic grips that didn't fit well (they fell short of the bottom of the grip frame by about 3/16"). It also had a big, ugly rollmark on the slide, with "M1991A1" emblazoned in huge block letters. Finally, it came with a flat mainspring housing and a long trigger (both plastic), which was like the original M1911 (pre-M1911A1), which was ironic considering it was named M1991'''A1'''. --[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 09:13, 17 December 2011 (CST)

==Terminator 2==
It was my understanding that the 1911 used in the film was a custom Colt frame with a fitted Detonic slide. Was it a combatmaster slide? [[Special:Contributions/65.29.239.251|65.29.239.251]] 09:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== blank firers / K911 ==

I've added/moved blank firing Kimar 911 to the bottom of page as told by MoviePropMaster2008 ''("Non-firing replicas of the M1911 belong on the bottom of the M1911 page. Thanks.")'' 
But I wonder, shouldn't there be an entire sub-category of blank firers (with K911 being sub-section of this) in order to distinguish blanks from the real ones? It ''might'' look confusing this way. And also, I made multiple photos of K911 for what I thought would be it's page here including disassembled weapon photo, so perhaps these unused ones might be deleted? --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

==Strayer Voigt Infinity ==
This gun is using a frame from STI, they call that frame the 2011, it's double stacked. And is made from steel and polymer.

:are Strayer Voigt Infinity custom built guns? or just have alot of models? Rex095

The modular frames look exactly like those used by STI. http://www.sviguns.com
Don't know if they collaborate or something. They (SVI) have more optional grips than STI.

Both companies reside in Texas.
::Read up: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc]

Does anyone know the mag cap for a Strayer Voigt Infinity in 45acp? - captain snikt

==Police service pistols==

Before the 90s were American Police ever issued the M1911, or were they're only given to the FBI and SWAT team?

- Some regular state/county/municipal departments might have used a 1911 as a standard duty-weapon before semiautos came into heavy use following the eighties, but I imagine that's a very low number. I certainly don't know of any specific departments myself offhand. Not that many departments use 'em much today. As a 1911 generally was considered a large pistol with a fairly powerful round it wasn't considered easy to use and handle by regular officers. Same general reason why departments in older times stuck with .38s over .357s - The .357 was generally considered too powerful for standard-duty officers. As such, most police departments used 9mms when they first went to automatics in the eighties as there were few semiauto calibers with lower recoil impulse and power at the time than .45ACP.

Some other police units might have used 1911s when it suited them - Homicide detectives in our county's police dept. carried 1911 type pistols, though I don't think that was the county's standard sidearm for uniformed officers. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

:There's another reason, besides caliber, that the 1911 wouldn't have been too popular in the old days - it's a single-action. Before DA-only became more acceptable (i.e. Glocks), most LE departments preferred handguns that were SA/DA. Almost all police revolvers used prior to the 1980s, like the S&W Model 15 and 19, or the Colt Python, were single- or double-action. This bias continued into the 1980s when a lot of departments started adopting the Beretta 92F and the 3rd Generation Smith & Wesson autos. Now that Glocks have been around long enough, DA-only is finally becoming the standard. But SA-only is pretty much a no-go to any LE agency, and that's the way it was even before the 1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Isn't Glocks SA-only? The firing pin is cocked by cambering a round?

Would a Smith and Wesson Model 39 or 639 or Colt Commander be more acceptable for police use back then?

- To MT, that's a good point as well. SA weapons do require a lot of training and familiarity to operate effectively and safely, and as such, again, weren't considered practical for regular police officers either. Very good to point out. If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the main reasons why the 1911 fell out of favor in the Armed Forces as well - the fact they required extensive training and familiarity to use and carry safely. DA weapons are easier to train and operate with. Very true.

As for the Glock question, no, Glocks are actually DA only.

As for actions - In a Single-Action (SA) firearm, the hammer must be manually cocked to a firing position prior to pulling the trigger. Just like revolvers of the old west. Double action firearms will both cock and release the hammer when the trigger is pulled. SA/DA firearms use double-action by default, but feature an externally accessible hammer to allow single-action style firing (by cocking the hammer back and then pulling the trigger). Modern revolvers are perhaps the simplest examples of this.

DAO (Double-Action-Only) firearms only fire by double-action as they don't have an accessible hammer for single-action cocking. Such as Glock and various other semiauto pistols.

So if you have empty casing in the chamber, an pull the trigger several times, you would hear a loud click every time because the firing pin would be cocked every time? That's what happens in a DAO gun. If not, it's a SAO.

And on the last question, yes the Smith 39/59 pistols were used by police departments back then. Illinois State Police used the 59 back in the 60s/70s if I remember my Jane's Gun Recognition book correctly. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:07, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Correction, Glocks are not DAO. They fire from a half-cocked position. When you dry fire the gun, the hammer falls and must be recocked by racking the slide, it does not cock by double action springs. That's why the have a slightly heavy trigger pull, they are half cocked, and are brought to full cock and dropped by pulling the trigger. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::: Bah, how did I miss that.. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:05, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

i thought glocks were striker-fired?

I think I read that Tacoma, WA police carry 1911s as standard issue service weapons.

I read on another forum that the LAPD authorises 1911 varients to officers, however they have to go through an intense training program to be authorised for it and they have to re-qualify ever few months too. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:30, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

Yes. A Glock is a "striker-fired" weapon so technically it is not either double action or single action because a glock doesnt have a hammer but instead releases the firing pin inside the slide. However if you were going to have to compare it, Single Action would be the closest term. Because the firing pin is "cocked" when the slide is racked and then the trigger only releases it and firing the round. Additionally a Glock does not qualify as a double action because it in no way cocks anything with the trigger. The trigger on a Glock can not be pulled again without cycling the weapon, whereas on a gun that is a double action the trigger can be pulled and the hammer actuated multiple times without cycling the weapon. -[[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

==Versus modern pistols==

One thing I've noticed about this pistol is that almost everyone loves it, as though it were the best, most versatile handgun ever made. But really, what makes this thing, almost 100 years old now, any better than any modern pistols? Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 21:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Familiarity, accuracy, ease of getting parts, feel, simplicity (yes I know there are designs that are simpler, but for what this pistol is, it is simple), many different makes and models of the 1911, modularity, traditionalism. There are many makes and models of the 1911 style that have the same features as many modern "wonder guns". Want more ammo? Get a Para Ord P14, ditto for DA, and DA/SA. Want a 9mm/ 10mm/ etc? there are many types of 1911 platform pistols ranging from .22lr to .44 Magnum. A quote I heard about the 1911 a few years ago is "It's like a '32 Ford Hotrod, its cheap, reliable, powerful, fun, and is easy to make it your own. Just don't think you'll get much mileage out of a tank of gas." Now tell me can you put custom grips, barrels, sights, slides, frames, triggers, hammers, finishes, safeties, slide releases magazines, etc etc etc on a Glock, XD, SIG, Beretta, etc? Maby a few of those, but at what price, and can you do it all? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 08:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

: ''Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.''

- Funny, several pistols I can think of that fit that criteria are little more than updated 1911 pistols. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:08, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

"bigger clips"
: Fail. I believe you meant Magazines. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
ya Unless your talkin about a Mauser broomhandle (which you're not) I would prefer if you said magazine instead of clip

::Actually, that's another thing I'm questioning. Really, what is the difference between the detaachable box magazines and clips? I mean, clips hold bullets for easy loading, right? SO wouldn't modern detachable magazines be classified as clips too?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 20:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Simplest way I can put this - a clip loads a magazine. The magazine is what the gun feeds from - NOT THE CLIP. It just so happens that on some guns, the magazine is affixed to the weapon (the M1 Garand and the Mauser, for example). Thus, users have to use clips to reload them. On, say, a M1911 or an M16, the magazine falls out, thus allowing the user to swap in a new one when needed. A magazine could hold a clip, if so designed...but that particular road is one-way only. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 20:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

::The "clip vs. magazine" distinction is something that really needs to be clarified, and one of the reasons why I asked for the "general information" section in the first place. Hopefully someone can make a good article there showing the various type of bullet clips and why they should not be confused with magazines. By the way, revolvers when not loaded manually use bullet clips. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 05:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

considering that this page is dedicated to the 1911 which is generally made in .45 does anyone else find it somewhat stupid that our military and most police departments are using handguns that have been known for their lack of stopping power. there are better handguns out there that hold a generous amount of .45 ammunition anyway. for example the Nighthawk FLX holds 12-14. the HK USP/HK45, and the Infinity handgun line are double stacked. and even if most .45s hold 7-10 isnt that enough in most scenarios. 7 .45 slugs does the work of at least 20. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Its the same reason that police used the .38 Special for so many years even after the .357 came out. Politics, logistics, ability to handle the round, etc etc... -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:30, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:With regard to caliber, police need rounds that can penetrate car bodies, doors, walls, etc. .45 rounds are not known for penetration. Also, while the .45 round is more effective against soft tissue than 9mm and .40 S&W rounds, anyone who tries to claim that 7 .45 rounds can do the work of 20 9mm or .40 rounds is completely dillusional. Watch ballistic test videos. A .45 slug entering the body does more damage than a 9mm round entering the body. If you try to claim that one .45 wound is more damaging than 2 9mm wounds with any decent grouping than you clearly have no understanding of physics or human anatomy.

But the fact remains with a 9mm you dont want him dead in the half hour it will take for him to bleed out. you want him dead NOW. with the .45 hes going to feel it. he aint gunna get back up. with the 9mm he might just keep firing.
:Depending on shot placement. A 9mm slug to the heart or any of the major arteries surrounding it will cause death within several seconds. The same is true of a shot to most areas of the skull. .45 does have increased lethality over 9mm, but that degree of superiority has been greatly exaggerated.

Yeah but a 9mm can pass through a person and keep going, a .45 doesn't. I would imagine you wouldn't want those two 9mm rounds going through a person and hitting an innocent bystander. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:28, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

It all really comes down to preference. Honestly a body shot with any round is not guaranteed to kill or stop anyone. The only thing guaranteed to immediately incapacitate someone is to severing the brain from the rest of the body. Recoil is also a big factor. If you cant shoot it it doesnt matter what you carry. People and police departments have to find the weapon that will work best for them. Personally I like the .45 and I own a 1911. The most important feature on the 1911 for me is its thinness with the single stack mag. Honestly I think my Sig 229 .40 kicks more violently and is harder to shoot than my .45. I know a lot of people who do not like the .45 and much prefer their 9mm because they are better with it. -[[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

Modern 9mm JHP and .45 ACP JHP in ballestic gel create near equal wounds. I can post reference links if anyone wants them. The whole thing about magazine capacity isn't really a problem as 99% of the time, only three shots are fired at most. Even with police, most of the time, no more than 3 rounds are fired.

Carry what guns suits you best, whether its a .22LR or its a .45 ACP. Once I turn 21, I plan on getting a SIG 1911 with a 4" barrel in .45 ACP but for the time being, I have to stick with my XD40.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:01, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

==Variants NOT listed with any film/TV/game appearances==

- I've taken it upon myself to remove several listed variants that had no list of anything that they've appeared in. Guns posted that didn't say they were in anything - Not one movie, TV show episode, video game, nothing. A couple of which I don't think have appeared on anything and seem to have been put up just for the hell of it.

Now I know we have a lot of 1911 variants on the page, but the page is not intended to show/describe ''every'' variant of 1911 ever made, but only those ''that have actually appeared in something'', as quoted by some of the admins. I just find it a bit annoying to have to scroll down the page and see numerous 1911 pistols that have nothing listed under them (Again, with some looking like they were just added for the sake of being there), and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anyway, clearing said sections out now. If it seems like an unusual or otherwise noteworthy variant, I'll add it to the 'additional variants' section below. Bottom-line, if it ain't actually been in anything, ''don't add it'', no matter how cool it is or whatever. If it has been in something, then next time, don't half-ass - If you're going to bother with the effort of putting it up in the first place, do it 100% and say what it's appeared in. Thanks. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:18, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

==Kimber==
in the Kimber Warrior section it is listed as "Warrior II", which is wrong, the Warrior is built to full military specs and never got the "II" desinated saftey system...so it is just a Warrior because kimber only puts the II on the models they put their special saftey on.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Controversy igniter==
I am fully aware that what I am about to say will probably ignite the greatest firestorm of controversy this site has seen in a while. I have fired several 1911 pistols and found them to be a good, solid design. That said, it doesn’t change the fact that I think this is undoubtedly the most overrated firearm in history. Throughout the entire gun community there is the consensus that this is the absolute greatest thing ever conceived by the mind of man and anyone who says anything different is a blasphemer. Again, I am not saying it is a bad pistol, I just don’t think it is best (I won’t say what my top choice is for fear of causing even more indignation to come my way). Though even if it were the undisputed best pistol design around, I still don’t think it would be so significantly greater than other designs as to warrant being the object of the worship and masturbatory fantasies of every gun enthusiast in the world as it currently is. That’s my two cents, I await the fallout.

:I smell a troll.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 17:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I'd say he's not because he seems to explain his point. At least his reasoning isn't 'this gun sukzz' [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:My main reasoning is that the weapons are predominately single action only, which necessitates that they either be carried condition three (which makes the pistol slow to bring into action), or condition one (which many consider unsafe). The double/single action and double action only systems have become omnipresent in most modern combat pistols for good reason. Additionally, while a generally reliable design, many other pistols have surpassed 1911 models in ruggedness and reliability. Another thing that I find odd is the vast variety of weapons that are claimed to be “1911s.” For instance, I have seen subcompact, double action only, double-column “1911s” in many calibers other than .45acp. At this point the only common feature between these weapons and the original Colt 1911 design are a loose aesthetic resemblance. The internal mechanisms maybe similar as well, but many other pistols share a far greater functional similarity to 1911s yet do not bear the moniker. At what point does a gun cease being a “1911” and become something simply trying to cash in on a famous name sake?

It is human nature to emulate successful designs in the hopes of getting a piece of that pie, especially in the modern business world. Less-refined terms for this behaviour include "jumping on the bandwagon" or "riding a gravy train." It's nothing new now in the firearms industry, what with all the AR-15 variants, Glock knock-offs, and (of course) countless "1911-type" pistols around. What defines a "1911-type" pistol is really matter of personal preference.

I would, however, agree that it's foolish to fetishize a type of firearm or a firearms manufacturer just because of its track record or Public Relations budget. There is no such thing as the "perfect" weapon in the real world--every design involves tradeoffs, and that's even before you include the "human factor." Designs can always be improved. What matters most is what you can use the most effectively in a consistent manner. And if you can't, then you ought to get yourself another weapon or train more.

Speaking of "best pistol ever," I remember how H&K tried to label their 4.6x30mm pistol as "the Ultimate Combat Pistol," but it got unceremoniously cancelled, because of "inadequate ballistics in a handgun format." So much for "Ultimate Combat Pistol"--now it joins the legions of "Useless Cancelled Pistols" that came before it. Perhaps it could have had a chance if it were a machine pistol instead, dubbed the "MP7 UltraComPact," in essence an MP7 PDW in handgun format. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:34, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:What I would like to know is what is it about the 1911 that supposedly makes it the best. I've heard people say it is the greatest pistol ever for more than a decade yet never explain what ''specific'' features or advantages it has that make it so good.

You should head on over to the forum and ask that question: "What makes the M1911 pistol so great compared to everything else, and when does an M1911 stop being one and start being a pistol just pretending to be one?" I'm sure there are more people there who could answer your questions better than what you could get here. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

What makes the 1911 the "best"? There are many reasons for the following it has. I am of course referring to the original 1911A1 model, not the double stack nor double action variants. For one, the single action trigger is extremely easy to train with and use by a lot of people. Second, it has redundant safety systems in place. Even with the manual safety off, it will not fire unless the grip safety is fully pressed, though this safety system is seen by a few as a con of the design. Third, it utilized a single stack design. That coupled with the angle of the grip is a very comfortable for a majority of the people. The degree of the grip angle was chosen because, for a lot of people, it is a natural point meaning that one could close ones eyes and bring the pistol up and have it pointing directly at the target. Fourth, it fired the .45 ACP. The .45ACP is a proven manstopper especially when compared to the other rounds utilized at the time of its adoption and until the development of reliable hollow point designs. Lastly, I would argue that compared to many other designs, such as the Mauser C96, Luger,etc..., the 1911 was easily field strip as the pieces of the pistol were designed to aid in the stripping down of the firearm. Compared to todays plethora of firearms, the 1911 is no longer the only pistol to chamber effective rounds or reliability. Why is it still popular then? Because some people still favor the 1911 design. Overrated, I don't think so. There is a reason why it is still chosen over other designs. Is it the end-all-be-all of pistol design? No, I would say it isn't. Anyway, from everything I've read, personal experience, and research that is what I have come up with. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 21:15, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Everything you have described establishes that the gun is a good design, perhaps the best gun around when it first came out, but does not explain it's enduring following. The grip may be confortable for many people, but that is far too subjective to explain why so many people (with so many different hand sizes) still favor this gun. It's single stack magazine make it a confortable target and practical concealed carry weapon, but the limited capacity it offers can be a death trap in a combat weapon (which many still claim the 1911 is the quintessential example of). The .45 ACP is a great round against soft targets, but does not offer very good penetration or long distance acuracy. And with the isistance on reliable "Soldier Proof" weapons in most of today's militaries, many modern pistols are more reliable and easier to strip than the original 1911s. I don't deny that the 1911 was most likely the best pistol in the world when it came out and for a few decades after, but I don't think it still warrents that praise anymore, yet almost every gun Television show, magazine, website, etc. seems to constantly proclaim its supremacy.

To answer your first point. The single stack, thin handgrip is easily usable by people of differing handtypes. You say its subjective but isn't how something feels in someones hand subjective? For example, the M9/Beretta 92FS has a thick grip. Bigger hands have no problem with the grip but smaller hands do. The slim 1911 grip can be used by big hands or little hands. The grip angle is something else that many people find comfortable. You second point that you made was the single stack "death trap". You say that the single stack is a liability. But capacity isn't everything. 7+ rounds of .45 ACP is good. The .45ACP has a well known reputation for one shot stops. The 9mm of the Beretta 92 or Glock 17 does not have that reputation. As for the .45ACP, it is not meant to penetrate body armor, neither is the standard 9mm, but it is accurate over long distances. There are very few pistol rounds that are meant to penetrate body armor of vehicle armor, which is what I think that you are getting at. If you draw a pistol in a combat zone, you are already in deep trouble or in a position where a high capacity is not needed, i.e. MP's. Anyway, a pistol is not meant to be accurate at long distances so the point is moot. As for the "Soldier Proof" weapons, that is just a cheap way out of training soldiers correctly, as they did with the A2 model of the M16. A milspec 1911 is just as reliable as newer designs. One such argument is that the 1911 was only tested for 6000 rounds with no failure before cleaning while Glock for example is tested at 30,000 rounds. What soldier won't clean his sidearm after 6000 rounds? What battle involves firing 6000 rounds out of a pistol? If you can't see why the 1911 design is praised and still being used then I can't help any further. The 1911 design has many good points that apparently many people still find better than other designs, and many still find the 1911 a proven and effective design.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 22:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Apparently I wasn't clear when I rebutted you last time. The single stack is confortable for people with small hands yes. However, people with larger hands, and even some small handed people, have no problem with thicker grips and so the capacity limiting single stack serves no purpose. The grip angle is a completely subjective feature and so it is imposible to argue that one style is better than another. What matters more is simply what one is used to. You are right that 7-9 rounds of ammunition and 6000 rounds before cleaning is more than adequate for most applications, however my point wasn't that the 1911 is bad (it is a good weapon) but simply that there are better guns out their. 7 or 8 rounds may be enough for most encounters, but having 12-17 rounds and being able to fire 30,000+ rounds before cleaning is an advantage, whether or not one will utalize those features often. Also, when I referenced penetration I had things like doors, walls, and car bodies in mind, not armor. The .38 Super cartridge was specifically developed because the .45 could not penetrate car bodies effectively. Your previous post all focuses on arguing that the 1911 is an ''adequate'' combat pistol which I completely agree with. My whole point is that the features you mentioned ''do not make it the best pistol around.'' When I first began this conversation I stated that the 1911 is not a bad gun, simply that with all the pistol designs that have emerged in the past century it is no longer the greatest pistol in the world, yet nearly everyone in the gun community (yourself clearly included) still claim it is for no other reason than people like its grip (which is subjective), its caliber (which is used in many much modern modern firearms), and its history (which can easily make it a favorite gun but can not be used as justification for it being the best).

::'''"You are right that 7-9 rounds of ammunition and 6000 rounds before cleaning is more than adequate for most applications"'''

::"Before cleaning"? What do you think; that it will malfunction on the 6001st round if you don't clean it? The gun is as dirty as it is going to get after a few hundred rounds. When you've fired a gun 6000 times in a row without cleaning and with no malfunctions, that means that when the gun finally does malfunction it won't be because it is dirty; it will most likely continue to function properly until something breaks.

::'''"but having 12-17 rounds and being able to fire 30,000+ rounds before cleaning is an advantage, whether or not one will utalize those features often."'''

::Just so you know, the M1911 didn't malfunction on the 6000th round. It didn't malfunction at all. They stopped after 6000 rounds because that is how many rounds they had decided beforehand would be adequate for a test. Any gun that can fire 6000 rounds without malfunctioning can most likely fire indefinitely without malfunctioning, until something breaks. And keep in mind that the M1911 did this 100 years ago, being built out of the relatively poor grades of steel of the day (steel was greatly improved after WWII, even though no U.S. military M1911 or M1911A1 ever got to take advantage of it, because none were bought after WWII). Also, those things you mentioned are ''potential'' advantages. A potential advantage that isn't used at all is not an actual advantage, obviously.

::30,000 rounds is overkill for a test. Most people will never fire anywhere near that many rounds through their handgun (especially without cleaning), and even if they did, who would want to trust their life to a gun that has 30,000 rounds worth of wear and tear on it? --[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 13:18, 17 December 2011 (CST)

You were arguing the design flaws but it is the design that is one of the big reasons it has such a following. Since you are arguing one view against the other. Why a lot of people think that it is the best. The design is one reason, history is another, the round it fires is yet another reason. I actually don't think it is the best I was merely stating the reasons that it is popular and why people say it is the best. I like the Beretta 92fs for its grip and certain design attributes and the Glock 21sf for different reasons. Would I object to using the 1911 in combat. No. Would I use the Beretta 92fs in combat with FMJ ammo? Not if I didn't have to. With HP ammo, I wouldn't hesitate to use the Beretta. But even your view of other designs being better is subjective. If a pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc...is reliable and fires a moderately effective round then it is a good design. What makes it the best is subjective as far as it goes. What one pistol may be best at is what makes it worst at something else. There is no way to objectively define the "best" just what is better than something else.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 00:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. I don't have any gun in mind that I think is indisputably better than all others. The features I pointed out I did so to demonstrate that in certain aspects the 1911 is inferior to other disigns, not that said other designs are the perfect weapon. Every design is a give and take of different features. Because of this, my main complaint was a pervaisive belief that the 1911 is unquestioningly the greatest gun ever (I have heard that phrase Verbatim in many issues of Guns & Ammo). Is it better in some aspects than double-collumn, double-action 9mm pistols? Yes. Is it better across the board? Absolutly not. I apologize if at any point I have come across as confrontational, it is just that I have heard so many people assert the 1911's complete supremacy so many times that it has really gotten on my nerves and I wanted to know what others thought.

Google "1911"...then google any other gun...now tell me which one has the most varieties...which one has the most after market parts and pieces for the specialist. Which one has the most surplus parts. Its so popular and so famous because if you wanted to you could make one look like no other one or you could make it look like that one in your favorite movie. Not only that but all the diffrent calibers from 45cal to the awesome and unbeatable 10mm. Plus they are sexy as hell. To sum up you can basically have a beautiful, functional, all steel combat pistol in your choice of caliber and its going to feel like a dream in your hands.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:48, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:The madness of crowds surely knows few bounds--just look at how the various bottled water companies manage to make a killing selling what is essentially tap water, because people will do often do things just because enough other people tell them it's a good idea. Then again, I suppose the "cult following" that some pistol-types have over others is due in part to the following facts:

:*Pistols are rarely if ever primary combat weapons anymore, with the exception of law enforcement.
:*Few people who routinely carry pistols have to regularly use them in gun battles against opponents who are earnestly trying to kill them.

:Therefore there aren't many occasions for most pistol-carriers to test their assumptions in the most revealing field of all--life-or-death situations. So depending on your circumstances you can go a lifetime without ever putting the hype in the harsh light of real return-fire. I'd bet on the M1911-type (the "pure" single-stack .45 ACP M1911s) pistols selling so much mostly because of its hype and history, and that it is, at its heart, a serviceable (though hardly optimal) weapon. Given how many clones there are, however, I really must wonder what would have happened had Colt become the sole copyright holder for this pistol type--would we see more innovation that way, or just countless clones of some other pistol type? Perhaps a more revealing, specific question would be "How does the M1911 platform compare to the Glock platform or CZ-75 platform?" That could work because all three are successful pistol types offered in multiple calibers, including 9x19mm, .45 ACP, and 10mm Auto.

:Bottom line? The "pure" M1911 works, but we can certainly do better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:07, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::Exactly

Ok, well answer me this then. Why if the 1911 is all hype and legend does MEUSOC still issue 1911s? Why does Delta give out a stipend to have an operator buy his own custom 1911? Why does the FBI HRT use 1911s? and LAPD SWAT? and so many other groups that use pistols? The reasons the wonder 9s came into popularity are lower recoil (marginal), size (marginal) higher capacity (less training in marksmanship), weight (long since gone by the wayside), to match ammo with other NATO countries (Military), and hype/ cool factor (civilian). The 1911 has served admirably (in one capacity or another) with few major changes to the platform for almost 100 years. The Beretta, Glock, CZ-75, etc. have been redesigned and "improved" since they came out just to try and match the 1911s in popularity, reliability, etc.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 17:30, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

:Sure thing. How many of these operators you mentioned fulfill the conditions I mentioned above, namely that they regularly use pistols as their primary combat weapons instead of SMGs/PDWs/Rifles and often engage in gunfights with earnest, aware opponents? And other combat platforms for the .45 ACP won out, such as the Mk. 23 SOCOM pistol which won out over Colt's version. The "improved" Beretta, Glock, CZ-75 you mentioned have done so to fit consumer demand and market competition, but national armed forces aren't that commercial and competitive most of the time because of how many contracts and vested interests are running the show. I simply said that the "Pure" M1911 platform works when used, but it can be improved, otherwise the Mk.23 SOCOM wouldn't have won the OHWS program. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:05, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::A lot of Special Forces don't even use the Mk. 23 due to its bulky and awkward size. Many Navy SEALs opt to use 9mm SIG-Sauer Pistols

H&K won the competition because they strictly adhered to all of the requirements (some of which were asinine), and they put in the best bid. When USSOCOM received the Mk. 23 they got exactly what they asked for but not what they had actually wanted. The SEALS who used it complained about how it was too big, heavy, and its cons outweighed its pros. They tried to pawn them off on the ARMY but no one there would touch them, so most of them went back to H&K. As with all things military, big brass does not listen to the guys who actually have to use the equipment until its too late.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 06:13, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I would like to toss my thoughts into the mix. Being a Brit getting a hold of a real firearm is harder than getting away with stealing the Popes hat, but I am an avid airsofter and I have held and fired many different types of airsoft pistols ranging from HK USPs, to Glocks, to Berettas, to SIGs. But I still go back to my 1911s to which I have 2 (I'm awaiting delivery of a third). I don't have tiny hands but I don't have big bear hands and the 1911 design feels right in my hands. I use a weaver stance and the 1911 is the best pistol for hand placement in that stance, I had an issue with the Beretta that sometimes my thumb could slip onto the slide locking mechinism and prevent slide lock. With Glocks they felt too top heavy for me, maybe it's how the airsoft Glocks are designed and it's not like that on the Real steel. I used a SIG for quite a while as that felt pretty good, but as soon as I picked up a 1911 I needed one. After a little practice I can draw, remove the safety and bring the pistol up to the target in a little under 2 seconds. Why do I like the 1911 so much? It's all about the placement, the safety is right by your thumb so when you draw it you can use one motion to bring the pistol up and deactivate the safety. I found the Beretta to be a bit of a fumbling job deactivating the safety mid draw. Why the 1911 design is still praised isn't down to some cult following, it's down to simple ergonomics, it looks great, the functionality is great, the placement of everything on the pistol is perfect. I saw someone post that they would rather be able to fire 30,000 shots and not have to clean their pistol rather than 6000. I don't know about you but if I only fired off one shot from my pistol in a battle I would still clean it to make sure nothing is going to cause a problem next time. Better to be safe than sorry. --[[User:Cool-breeze|Cool-breeze]] 17:19, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I think it depends by what you define as 'best', and what you need the gun for. In my mind, if you want an M1911 variant, get a Para-Ordnance LDA. Like the P14.45, but double action. If you want a cheap, reliable, accurate semi-auto, do what everybody else does, get a Glock 17 and stop moaning. Your moaning about not people liking 7-round magazines (we've moved on to higher-capacity ones-in my mind, if armies must use M1911 variants, use Para-Ordnance's. 7 or 8 rounds plus one in the chamber is just awful, and you'll run out quickly.) is making the world of semi-auto's remain stuck in the 20th century. Embrace the future! With pistols like the Caracal, FN Herstal Five-seveN, and many other great ones, it's not half bad.

== Ballester-Molina ==

The Ballester-Molina should not be included in the 1911 page. It's not a 1911, only the mags and barrel interchange. Internally it's based on the Star Model A, which has significant differences from the 1911 in terms of lockwork. Unless anyone objects I'm going to create a separate page for it. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

== Link share ==

Hello there,

This is a question for the webmaster/admin here at www.imfdb.org.

Can I use part of the information from this blog post right above if I give a link back to your site?

Thanks,
Daniel

== Dreamworks Animation ==

When are you guys going to add animated films from Dreamworks like Monsters vs. Aliens and Megamind, because they have guns used by police and the military.

Just because there are guns in it doesn't mean it gets a page here. Are they recognisable as real guns, or are they stylised ones? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

They are real guns in the animated films, like in Monsters vs Aliens, the soldiers used some M16 rifles to shoot at the alien, and in Megamind, the police uses rifles and pistols on aiming the villain, who is walking.

OK, I'm going to assume that you haven't read the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page, most notably [[Rules, Standards and Principles#Anime: Rules & Restrictions|this section]]. Read that, then check back. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

But wait, why do we have video game pages then? Firearms in them barely resemble real ones --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok sorry, no big deal, lets not add cartoons yet, because they have to wait.

:@Jackbel. Because in video games you can clearly identify the guns, and no the good ones do not just 'barely resemble real ones.' As a video game person you should know this, unless Australia has weird rules about depicting guns in video games. The reason cartoons are generally not allowed is because unlike anime, most cartoons have a generic silouette of a 'gun' while most animes have enough detail to be able to determine what guns was used. Think [[Ghost in the Shell]] or [[Cowboy Bebop]].--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

==.45 Blanks==

I've read a lot here that .45 blanks used to be unreliable. I was wondering when they started to become a bit more reliable and why they were unreliable? I can't find that anywhere.

I thought it wasn't really the blanks being unreliable so much as it just being easier to blank-convert a 9mm than a .45. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

.45 pistols require more recoil force to cycle their actions than 9mms. Since blank rounds have virtually no recoil, .45s are much harder to convert to use blanks.

Ah right. Is there some new way of converting them now because I've started to notice that in recent years there have been a lot of films using .45 ACP versions of pistols that are also chambered in 9mm. Die Hard 4.0 for example, McClane as a P220 in .45 ACP. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:37, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
:Is it explicitly stated that the prop gun was chambered in .45? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
::''"Is it explicitly stated that the prop gun was chambered in .45"'' We have a pic of the actual screen used gun and is listed as .45 ACP. I think all newer P220s are chambered in .45, only some of the older ones were chambered in 9mm and .38 Super. Also the .45 being unreliable with blanks. I don't think it encompassed all .45 chambered pistols. I think it was only in the 1911 platform. With the 9mm being a much smaller blank and having the large ejection port made for the .45 it was easier to eject them.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:SIGP220R LiveFreeDieHard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SIG-Sauer P220R - .45 ACP. This is the screen used gun in the film and was carried and fired by ''[[Bruce Willis]]''.]]
::: Just checking. Especially after the whole issue with the Glocks. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:54, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Long (and detailed!)story short. For a 1911 to fire blanks reliably you must first drill and tap the barrel for a blank adapter, then taper the barrel hood, then grind off the locking lugs, and remove the barrel linkage. Once that is done, the testing for a reliable adapter and blank combo ensues (you may or may not need to enlarge the ejection port too). I figure its pretty much the same with other pistols...-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

That sounds like a very complex process. I'm assuming if you do that well though the 1911 will cycle blanks as well as 9mm blanks. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:28, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I read an article in a gun magazine a few years back about blanks and it said that it comes down to the casings used. According to the article, blanks are made from rifle brass because it has to be long enough to be crimped and still be long enough to be the length of a real cartridge. The problem with .45 acp ammo is that until recently there was no rifle brass in .45 diameter that could be used for blanks. I remember reading back when "Miami Vice" was on that Timothy La France had brass custom manufactured in .45 for blanks. -- David, 3 December 2010 (well, its the 3rd where I live)

==Laseraim Series III?==

So what is this thing?
[[Image:LaserAimSeriesIIIPistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|LaserAim Series III Pistol - .45 ACP]]
It looks more like a CZ derivative than a 1911 derivative to me... Alot like a mashup of CZ, S&W, Sig, STI, etc..-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 06:51, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
:It draws a little from the S&W series (namely the safety) and CZ-75 (in terms of grip shape), but technically it is a M1911 derivative, they just didn't make many of them.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 07:15, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Used to see these in tv shows during the late 80s. the later model was the first pistol I ever saw with an integral accessory rail on the dust cover, although that was in a catalog. David. 11 December 2010
:::Dust cover? What are you talking about? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
I don't know what else to call it, it is the part of the frame extending in front of the trigger guard. I have seen it, in print referred to as a dust cover. David.

::THIS Laseraim was photographed for the [[Haunted (2002)]] page since it was used in an episode. If you guys read the Haunted (2002) page, for which this IMAGE was originally shot for, the description says: '''Laser Aim was yet another manufacturer who built ported .45 ACP pistol based on the original M1911 design, but incorporating elements of the BHP and the CZ-75 into a new design. The unique feature of the Laser Aim was a hole cut out of the trigger guard ahead of the trigger to mount a laser. Since the production ended for this pistol, smaller lasers with better battery life have been invented. By the late 1990s LaserAim had gone out of business and had sold their patents to AMT. ''' Hope this sheds some light on the piece. It is a new weapon influenced purportedly by M1911, BHP and CZ designs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

Ah, that explains it. Could have saved myself about 2 hrs of google searching if I'd looked up the image uses hah.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:13, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

== MEU(SOC) Pistol... ==
...has been given a new designation, ''M45''. [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/24/m45-close-quarters-combat-pistol/] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

We also need a better image for it, but I can't find one I can't be sure isn't an Airsoft gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:04, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The big problem is there is no single model that is the M45/ MEUSOC Pistol. The "M-45s" in service are a mix and match of Kimbers, Springfields, Colts, etc. The "M-45" is a set of specs that any pistols built for MEUSOC have to comply with. There are SOME retrofitted M1911A1 pistols that were done by USMC Armorers at Quantico, but they are going to be near impossible to differentiate from the M1911A1 they were built from.
Here's a good thread from AR15.com (dear lord its hard to say that haha) about the M-45 MEUSOC pistol variants.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=86667
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 08:46, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

== More proof of the M1911's greatness ==

According to the news, the M1911 is now the official state gun of Utah! This is kind of cool, since John Browning lived in Utah, and it's just in time for the great .45's centennial anniversary. [[Special:Contributions/74.192.58.206|74.192.58.206]] 21:16, 19 March 2011 (CDT)

== Happy 100th Anniversary to the Colt M1911! ==

Happy 100 years of service M1911! Thank you for providing some of the most nastiest knockdown power available to the armed forces and for providing an eternal name of badassery in motion pictures!

Here's looking forward to 100 years more! --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 15:40, 29 March 2011 (CDT)

My favorite semi-auto is the 1911. I've had affairs with others but I always come back to a good ole Colt .45. I didn't understand why until I did some research and figured out we shared a birthday. Still saving for an anniversary model... [[User:USGIMar29|USGIMar29]] 19:40, 2 September 2011 (CDT)

==9mm 1911s==
I'm not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask but could anyone recommend some good 9mm 1911s? I live in Australia and the maximum calibre you can get without doing competition shooting is .38 or 9mm rounds. --[[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 07:07, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Naming the MEU(SOC) pistol ==

On M1911's page (and correspondingly on pages that list the weapon) it is named "M-45 MEUSOC":

1) While calling it "M-45" wouldn't be incorrect, it should be changed to "M45" in line with other officially adopted names on IMFDB;

2) Using "MEUSOC" in conjunction with "M45" is incorrect. It is either "MEU(SOC) Pistol" or "M45 Close Quarters Battle Pistol" / "M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol".

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:46, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:Well, then go change it. ^3^ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:59, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::Will be done right now. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:17, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::I think they are the same pistol. I remember seeing a story about how the MEU(SOC) was reclassified as the M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol at some point, and have also seen documents that use the term M45 MEUSOC (no brackets). What do you think the differences are between the two? I think there is some confusing as there have been various different versions of the MEU(SOC) pistol built from various off the shelf parts. There are at least 5 versions that I know of, and main fetures are as follows. 1: original version with unflared ejection port and Springfield Armoury logo behind the ejection port. 2: newer slide with flared ejection port and logo in front of the ejection port. 3: front slide serrations. 4: wide slide serrations and Novak sights, with grip safety with "bumb" at the bottom. 5: 4th version with skeleton hammer rather than Commander type hammer. You also have the ICQB which is a Kimber made pistol with a railed frame. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:26, 3 October 2011 (CDT)
::::Sorry, just realised I totally misread your original post. Though you were saying that the MEU(SOC) and M45 were different pistols. However, the term M45 MEUSOC (without brackets) is also correct. [https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=df43476377acd40c0f409faa2ceffc9d&_cview=1] --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:52, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::Notice the presence of comma between M-45 and MEUSOC. That would indicate the listing of different designations for the weapon. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:27, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::I really don't think the comma means that, but to satisfy you, here [http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2010/03-March/19-Mar-2010/FBO-02095403.htm]. To be fair though, I have seen official documents that refer to the M45 being the MEUSOC, Close Quarters Battle or Close Quarters Combat pistol. I think this whole conversation is irrelevant however, as on looking into it, I think the M45 pistol and the MEU(SOC) pistol listed on this page are different weapons, with the M45 being a commercial of the shelf pistol made by either Colt, Sprinfield Armoury or Karl Lippard Designs. This article from the [http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/01/marine-marsoc-pistol-45cal-012511w/ Marine Corps Times] seems to back this up (this time referring to it as the Close Quarter Battle Pistol) stating that the M45 is modelled on the MEU(SOC) but will be a COTS pistol, which is currently being evaluated. For the sake of simplicity, I think the pistol on this page should just be called the MEU(SOC). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:19, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::::::MEUSCOC. Wonder what the first "C" stands for?
:::::::It would have been so much simpler if there was website that chronicles the history of MEU(SOC) pistol. Every variant along with pictures and how they were designated (to distinguish them)... Because currently sources are conflicting. In USMC's [http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/ MCB Quantico] section there is an article "[http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/Sentry/storyview.aspx?SID=4913 The Devil Dogs’ workshop]". There it says M45 Close Quarters Battle Pistol is being built by local armorers. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:50, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

One more issue: sources vary on the year of adoption. Some say 1985[http://www.americanspecialops.com/special-ops-weapons/meusoc-pistol.php][http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm], other say 1986[http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/marinefacts/blsoc.htm][http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=16][http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/meusoc.htm]. Maybe change the part to "since the mid-1980s"? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:53, 11 October 2011 (CDT)

:Done. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:08, 13 October 2011 (CDT)

== A Location of Procuring ==
Does anyone know where you can get one of these great airsoft movie-1911 replicas namly the stunning and slender long-slide?

[[Image:WA490 4 mark.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Airsoft Long Slide Jim Hoag M1911A1 replica]]

-[[User:GladeTaylor]]

The image has a watermark from [http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/ ehobbyasia.com] on it, so I'd suggest looking there. The exact pistol is [http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/western-arms-colt-hoag-bianchi-special-gbb-pistol.html here.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 10:12, 14 December 2011 (CST)

== Organization. ==

Any objections to alphabetizing this page? I think it would make a bit more sense... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:38, 6 December 2011 (CST)
:No don't do that. The M1911 and M1911A1 go first. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:52, 6 December 2011 (CST)
::Fair enough, I actually agree with that. But what about the less common ones. Seems weird to Kimber, Strayer, Inifinity, Detonics, Springfield, etc... What if we keep the most common ones at the top (M1911 & M1911A1) and put the rest in order? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 21:58, 6 December 2011 (CST)

== Difference between Kimber and Colt. ==

In several medias, I discovered that Colt M1911 can sometimes be referred as the Kimber. Why is it so since the weapon manufacturer is Colt? And is there any difference in the mechanism of gun between the both companies? --[[User:S9771773G|S9771773G]] 21:31, 28 December 2011 (CST)

those medias are just being ignorant with their terminology. Colt makes 1911's and kimber makes 1911's...two diffrent companies that happen to make the same model. Any true diffrences in them will mostly be cosmetic in nature. The biggest diffrence between colt and kimber is that Kimber say Yonkers on it and colt say Hartford. Most people think that colt was the first and only maker of the 1911 and call all 1911's colts no matter of maker...for example someone saying "I own a colt 1911 made by springfield"...well no sir you have a Springfield 1911-A1 and colt has nothing to do with it.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 10:21, 29 December 2011 (CST)

== Airsoft Colt's grips. ==

Maybe it's kinda stupid,but I was wondering,could I install some custom or just another grips on my.. hahaha,Marui's Colt Government spring pistol? ;)
That thought came to me,cause I realised,that mine is 1:1 copy of the real one,so.. maybe,new grips would be possible to install. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 16:17, 22 January 2012 (CST)
: Not sure about the springer, but you can put them on the GBB pistol. Makes the gun much lighter though, as the airsoft grips have metal weights inside them. Seems a bit of a waste doing it on a springer though, the grips would probably be worth more than the gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:34, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Yeah,agreed about the price.Thanks for a useful answer.:) [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 16:41, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== When to add here Vs own page ==

What makes the decision between a 1911 variant being including on this page versus having its own page? With this page getting so large seems like some of these guns could have their own page. The [[Star Model B]] has its own page, for example, while the [[Para-Ordnance LDA]] is part of the M1911 page. How is that decision made? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:13, 1 March 2012 (CST)

:The Star B while similar on the exterior, internally it isn't. From the Star Model B talk page ''First, these pistols had no automated grip safety, and no detachable backstrap/mainspring housing. Second, Star pistols had simplified trigger/sear design with single trigger link, and pivoting trigger. Third, external safety swiths locked the hammer, not the sear. Fourth, Star pistols featured exetrnal extractors. Fifth, as noted above, Star A Super and B Super also had different barrel locking/unlocking.'' The page is getting a bit big. They could be split per manufacturer. Colt would stay on this page I guess. Kimber, Para, Springfield etc getting their own. The M16 rifle page is also getting too big, it often kicks me out of it. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:25, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::That makes sense! Yea I've got a pretty good connection here but when it takes over a minute for a page to load, time to split them up... I like your idea of doing them by manufacturer and we can always have a '''See Also''' at the bottom. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:31, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:::Maybe make thread on it in the forums. Most probably won't go for it though. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:02, 1 March 2012 (CST)

== British M1911 ==

I understand a series of M1911's were modified to fire .455 Webley Auto rounds. Can anyone give more information about this? Like is it suppressor adaptable? Who used it? Etc, etc.

Talk:Once Upon a Time in Mexico

2012-03-04T08:24:46Z

Alasdair:

I pretend this movie doesn't exist, because it ruins everything I like about Desperado. I hated this movie, Desperado was much better. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:Any movie where Depp gets his eyes taken out is a good movie in my book-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:35, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
::what like, three guns are ACTUALLY BLANK FIRED in this movie! everything else is CG. Jesus Christ. Doesnt even compare to desperado.
:::it´s CGi because the real ones were stop in the mexican frontier, when they got the actual guns, great part of the film was already done.
::::At least Robert Rodriguez took the time to make the flashes look somewhat realistic and add in casings being ejected and the wall squibs. It may not quite be the same as blank fire, but its a huge step up from other movies that opt for CGI gun fire like ''[[Curse of the Komodo]].'' -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==Agent Ramirez's revolver==
I think the weapon used by retired FBI Agent Ramirez was a third generation Colt Detective Special. Can anyone confirm this?

Idk about you dude but im a huge rodriguez fan, this is just as good as deperado. i do have one small comment though despite the movies badassness. To whoever wrote the page: are you sure its 12 guage because i think it could possibly be a Howdah Pistol.

== Suppressed Revolver? ==

When Ajedrez has a silencer on her revolver, isn't that impossible to work because it is a revolver? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

You are forgetting that in the movies aparently it can work, the magic of the movies. --[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 18:12, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
it has the ruger indent on the side of it so i think its a ruger revolver-Doomsayer64
::I thought it looked like an SP101. In one shot when she's in the room with Sands, you can see the ribbed grips. But since they never a blued SP101, (at least as far as I know) it may be a rubber gun, like a lot of the other guns in the movie. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:02, 5 May 2011 (CDT)

Saying suppressors don't work on revolvers because they are revolvers is inaccurate. To my knowledge, one revolver exists with the ability to mount a sound suppressor-the Nagant M1895, used by in World Wars One and Two, and by civilians and security companies long after the war had ended. However, sometimes either script writers or amoury guys get things wrong, or can't be bothered, or don't have enough money or time to get things right, or think people won't care, so they make a mock suppressor for a revolver that can't be suppressed in something called 'The Real World'. Alasdair

== Publicity shot or screenshot? ==

Does he actually use this in the film? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:51, 26 May 2011 (CDT)

== Flashpaper Beretta ==
Whenever a Beretta is fired in close proximity to an actor, a flashpaper version is used. Barrilo uses one.
[[Image:BARILLO.JPG|thumb|400px|none|Used by Barillo]]

== additional screenshots ==

[[Image:Ajedrez (3).jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:Ajedrez (4).jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:Ajedrez (9).jpg|thumb|none|500px]]