Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

2014-11-30T20:22:15Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Similarities to The Last Crusade */

== Thanks ==

Thanks to whoever corrected me on the ID of the revolver. By the way, (just out of curiosity) where is the cylinder release on that Dan Wesson? --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 21:24, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:In front of the cylinder. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:15, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Guns Missing that I can see ==

Pistol - Sniper Tau

Appears to be the same as the Wes-44 from previous games, but with a sniper scope fitted.

:Hell it does.

[[Image:Uncharted3-WesandTau-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Taurus Raging Bull? I guess that's where the "Tau" comes from. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:15, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's a Raging Bull alright. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:54, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Sniper rifle - T-Bolt Sniper

Bolt-action Sniper Rifle, 1 shot kill every time regardless of hit location.
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bolt_Sniper

==Adding Pics==

Also i keep trying to add a image to AKS-74U but i can't because i need more simpler
hints on how to add a image to pages so i need some help on adding images so
i need some guys to tell me how to add an image also displaying a image

== Any idea what the pistol in the top left is? ==

[[Image:Uncharted-Dashboard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full HD shot to make it biggar.]]

And yes, I have the ''Valkyria Chronicles'' theme. I'm a sucker for a game about tanks, ok? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:11, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like Makarov PM or Walther PP or similar pistol. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 3 November 2011 (CDT)
:''Valkyria Chronicles, heh''

Got another shot of it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-Cutterpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's Cutter's gun. Looks a bit like a Makarov, but there's a control above the trigger that neither a Makarov or a PP / PPK have. Also, as a note of interest, Cutter is voiced by Graham McTavish, who was, of all people, ''Lazarevic'' in the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Walther P5 [[File:P5Wood.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 07:21, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Yup, that's the one, thanks. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:27, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:What a cool dashboard. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:26, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== OMG! ==

Just wanted to say: this game is AWESOME! The true definition of action game. Compared to it, CoD games are like a day in retirement home :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:16, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:I so prefer a game like this over COD:MW3, too bad I can't play it, I have every console ''except'' a PS3. D: - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:24, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::I played the game at the video game shop and felt like I should buy PS3 like, right NOW. They call it PS3's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application killer app] :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:::The game looks amazing indeed, and I am stuck with F2P shooters on my shitty PC. I hate console-only games. Excuse me, now I'm going to beat myself to death with my Logitech keyboard. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, it's totally unfair for such games to be console exclusive :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== T-Bolt Sniper Rifle ==
Why isn't the T-Bolt listed on this page it's modeled after the Finnish TKIV-85 rifle. I would add it myself but I can't add pictures from my iPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:44, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I haven't got far enough to get a shot of it yet, I'll add it when I have one. I've already got a TKIV-85 image ready, I'll upload it when I add it. Obviously I can't really write an entry for a weapon I've never used, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:47, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Weapon image, placed here for now:

[[Image:7.62 TKIV 85.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Finnish TKIV-85 rifle - 7.62x53mmR]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:18, 6 November 2011 (CST)

== Suppressed 92FS is not an Inox ==

I didn't use this shot because the video was blurry, but it basically proves it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that even in bright light, the Beretta is the same colour as Nathan's suit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:03, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:417px-Silencer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that the Beretta is not the same color as the Houge grips. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:46, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I think that's just because the finish of the frame is slightly glossy compared to the grips. I'll see what that shot looks like when I get there, but you have to admit that that one shot of it being slight paler grey doesn't really prove it's bright, reflective stainless steel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:17, 6 November 2011 (CST)

The Beretta in the previous games would sometimes look like the first picture due to lighting but they were still Inox's --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:21, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Perhaps, but these are ''usually'' black, even in strong light. They catch the light from time to time is all, they're not silver as far as I can tell from my videos so far. Notes also the silver screws on the grip in your shot are much brighter than the frame and slide are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Having played the game myself, I'll tell you right now the gun clearly is NOT an Inox. --[[User:K|K]] 17:53, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:U3ddberettaInox.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Uncharted3-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta has seemingly been downgraded to the status of paperweight in the sequel.]]

You can see the contrast of slide and frame to grip and holster strap clearly here. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:58, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Equally, you can see the frame and slide are not silver while the screws on the grip are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 6 November 2011 (CST)

There is no way you can say that that the Beretta is black. It's just a tiny bit darker than the screws. Once you get to the level where you are sneaking ono the cargo plane you can see that it's an Inox. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Being very dark grey and being stainless steel are hardly the same thing. If it were an Inox the screws and slide / frame would be the exact same colour (as they are in Uncharted 2), the slide would not be dark grey when the screws are almost white. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:57, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Notice that the coloring of the Beretta of the first picture is the same as the Beretta listed in the page under Beretta 92FS Inox. Also note how the screws in the picture that was originally on the page are brighter than the slide/frame.

:::Actually I can't see that at all. Certainly not to the extent of the contrast on the suppressed pistol. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:16, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because the lighting is different in both pictures, the brighter screws might just be a result of the quality of the video. There is no way you can call the Beretta in the first pic a standard 92FS. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:24, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::But the first pic looks terrible, Nathan and Elena look like waxworks and the frame is torn at the top. I wouldn't regard is as a reliable indication of what that scene actually looks like until I've seen it myself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:29, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::The only thing that is wrong with that pic is that the frame is torn from converting it into a jpg, it's much better quality tha the pic you provided to prove that it was a regular 92FS. How much do you think the scene is going to change, that Nate is actually putting an M134 minigun in his holster. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:35, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Well, that the colours won't look wrong on the two human characters. Regardless, there's no point discussing this further until I get home to get the rest of the weapons screencapped. Also, how on earth do you tear a screenshot with jpeg conversion? Screen tearing is a lack of vsync. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:40, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Oh yeah, I forgot that Drake had blue skin and Elena's was green. And the screen didn't actually "tear" per say, but instead doubled the image and overlapped one but put it lower and I didn't realize it until after I uploaded it. I was forced to save this image via paint, because my crappy computer can only handle that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lose the attitude. It doesn't help. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:49, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::: Sorry man, it's not you I'm mad at, the New England Patriots just Lost and I'm pissed. I didn't mean to take it out on you, sorry. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:55, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Ah, don't worry about it. I'll be home in five hours or so to get the rest of those screenshots and I'll look over the video of the first stealth mission again while I'm at it. Only thing I won't get is supposedly there's a multi-only FAL and I'm not going to hit level 50 on a one week rental. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:11, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Lol, I'm renting it to, but I didn't get online pass so I can't play online, but I did hear that the FAL was a semi automatic. You can get much better views of the Beretta in question during the mission where you have to get on the cargo plane and the cutscene that sets up the mission, has some pretty decent shots of it too, so I hope that helps. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:19, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Still playing and recording, and I think I see what's up with that weapon. It ''is'' black, but the specular mapping for it is metallic, so in the right light it reflects like bare metal (the Dan Wesson PPC does exactly the same). There's a few weapons with weird specular settings; the SPAS looks like the entire heat sheild is chrome plated if you get the right light on it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:14, 7 November 2011 (CST)

== AKS-74U ==
I think the "KAL-7" is actually based on the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U because you can see in game, as well as in the title screen picture listed here that it uses 7.62x39mm AK-47 magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:38, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Also, I think the Arm Micro is based on the MasterPiece Arms MPA930SST as opposed to the model listed as the one in game is side cocking with a rail mounted on top of the receiver much like the MPA330SST. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:41, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I'll fix that when I get home, didn't see the top rail on it when I was checking my videos. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Just as some notes: I now have the ''entire game'' recorded, I'll get caps tomorrow. I think the flare pistol is based on the 3-barrel Type 90 flaregun. I'm not going to include Talbot's tranq gun, the only time you see it at all it's dark, the gun is black on a black suit, and he's already almost put it back in his jacket as the scene cuts to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 7 November 2011 (CST)

==Colt Defender==
The comment about the Defender's Mag capacity was wrong. Colt gives it as 7+1 or 8+1 on their website.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 15:29, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== Similarities to The Last Crusade ==

Spoiler Alert!!!
:
''Indiana Jones'' has obviously had a heavy influence on the Uncharted series, but this one is ridiculous! Where to start? Third in the trilogy. A main theme is Drake's relationship with Sully, the father figure. It starts off showing a young Drake stealing the thing the badguys are after and being chased, starting his adventuring career. Drake is taken captive onto a ship where he fights his way off and jumps into the water as the ship sinks, leaving him in the middle of the ocean. When Drake and Sully are shown around Yemen by Elena it is reminiscent of when Indy and Marcus are shown around Venice by Elsa, ending with them climbing into a hole in the ground. Drake makes a rubbing of a clue in the knight's tomb. Drake and Sully have to escape from a burning castle shortly after going through a secret door in the fireplace. Drake stows away on a big transport aircraft only to be forced to bail out. Familiar phrases pop up like "Two days head start", "Into the lion's den", "The name of a city" and "Out of range". Drake attacks an armored convoy, in the desert canyons, on horseback, with the help of arabs who happen to be sworn to protect the thing everyone's after, and rescue Sully who's being held in one of the vehicles by holding on while he dangles over the side and Salim (Sallah) pulls him onto his horse. Sully is shot near the end only to be miraculously fine once magic water comes into play. Of course the ancient ruins collapse as soon as the heroes get done with it. Also, duh, they talk about the actual crusades quite a bit. Greatness from Great beginnings I guess!--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]]

You know, that is very smart thinking..Now you notice it, there is a very much similar to The Last Crusade! --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

:Given Nathan has now accidentally blown up El Dorado, Shambala and Iram of the Pillars (with increasingly less effort each time), I'm guessing in the next one he'll find Atlantis but then a mouse will sneeze and it'll sink. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:39, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::El Dorado didn't blow up, the helicopter wreckage dragged it (it was a giant golden coffin containing a virus of some kind, not a city) to the bottom of the ocean. He also didn't blow Iram up, it sort of just sank into a sinkhole. As far as finding Atlantis and a mouse sneeze causing it to sink... I totally agree. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:31, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

:::According to the Atlantis myth, Atlantis already sunk. That's what caused it to the become the "Lost City of Atlantis." It would be hard to sink something that is already underwater. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:36, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::I'd kinda forgotten what the hell happened in 1, but I know there was a lost city and I'm sure it got splosioned. With Atlantis obviously he's going to raise it (which his <s>printed copy of gamefaqs</s> diary will tell him how to do) and then sink it. Also technically he didn't find Iram of the Many Pillars, he found Iram of the One Big Structurally Unsound Pillar, so maybe he'll find the rest of the pillars. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:41, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Who says the devs have to adhere to the myth? They certainly didn't with El Dorado nor did they with the Cintamani stone. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:25, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::You really couldn't create a game about Atlantis, without acknowledging that it is underwater, that's what it is known for. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:09, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::::::Well obviously, yeah. You get into it through some caves or tunnels or something full of ancient machinery 50% of which works perfectly and the other 50% of which spontaneously falls apart just after a chiseled heroic man moves near it, have all the underwater stuff, raise it up by consulting Drake's all-seeing diary, and then sink it again while blowing it up for good measure. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:14, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

Well, it couldn't be blown up until there was a speedboat convoy that Drake rides up to on a seahorse, and then jumps from speedboat to speedboat as they line up next to the ones that catch fire in order to let Drake jump over to them instead of just leaving him on the one about to blowup, even they are trying to kill him. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:19, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:And he's being chased by a Hind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:21, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::Until he reaches the boat with the convenient can of any Anti-Russian Gunship spray. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:23, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== Salim's revolver ==
In cutscenes Salim has a revolver holstered on his left side that he never uses in the game. What little of the frame I can see of it says Webley to me, but revolvers aren't really my strong point. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:40, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Talk:Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

2014-11-10T21:20:58Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Similarities to The Last Crusade */

== Thanks ==

Thanks to whoever corrected me on the ID of the revolver. By the way, (just out of curiosity) where is the cylinder release on that Dan Wesson? --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 21:24, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:In front of the cylinder. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:15, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Guns Missing that I can see ==

Pistol - Sniper Tau

Appears to be the same as the Wes-44 from previous games, but with a sniper scope fitted.

:Hell it does.

[[Image:Uncharted3-WesandTau-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Taurus Raging Bull? I guess that's where the "Tau" comes from. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:15, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's a Raging Bull alright. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:54, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Sniper rifle - T-Bolt Sniper

Bolt-action Sniper Rifle, 1 shot kill every time regardless of hit location.
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bolt_Sniper

==Adding Pics==

Also i keep trying to add a image to AKS-74U but i can't because i need more simpler
hints on how to add a image to pages so i need some help on adding images so
i need some guys to tell me how to add an image also displaying a image

== Any idea what the pistol in the top left is? ==

[[Image:Uncharted-Dashboard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full HD shot to make it biggar.]]

And yes, I have the ''Valkyria Chronicles'' theme. I'm a sucker for a game about tanks, ok? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:11, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like Makarov PM or Walther PP or similar pistol. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 3 November 2011 (CDT)
:''Valkyria Chronicles, heh''

Got another shot of it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-Cutterpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's Cutter's gun. Looks a bit like a Makarov, but there's a control above the trigger that neither a Makarov or a PP / PPK have. Also, as a note of interest, Cutter is voiced by Graham McTavish, who was, of all people, ''Lazarevic'' in the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Walther P5 [[File:P5Wood.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 07:21, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Yup, that's the one, thanks. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:27, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:What a cool dashboard. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:26, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== OMG! ==

Just wanted to say: this game is AWESOME! The true definition of action game. Compared to it, CoD games are like a day in retirement home :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:16, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:I so prefer a game like this over COD:MW3, too bad I can't play it, I have every console ''except'' a PS3. D: - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:24, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::I played the game at the video game shop and felt like I should buy PS3 like, right NOW. They call it PS3's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application killer app] :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:::The game looks amazing indeed, and I am stuck with F2P shooters on my shitty PC. I hate console-only games. Excuse me, now I'm going to beat myself to death with my Logitech keyboard. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, it's totally unfair for such games to be console exclusive :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== T-Bolt Sniper Rifle ==
Why isn't the T-Bolt listed on this page it's modeled after the Finnish TKIV-85 rifle. I would add it myself but I can't add pictures from my iPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:44, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I haven't got far enough to get a shot of it yet, I'll add it when I have one. I've already got a TKIV-85 image ready, I'll upload it when I add it. Obviously I can't really write an entry for a weapon I've never used, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:47, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Weapon image, placed here for now:

[[Image:7.62 TKIV 85.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Finnish TKIV-85 rifle - 7.62x53mmR]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:18, 6 November 2011 (CST)

== Suppressed 92FS is not an Inox ==

I didn't use this shot because the video was blurry, but it basically proves it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that even in bright light, the Beretta is the same colour as Nathan's suit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:03, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:417px-Silencer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that the Beretta is not the same color as the Houge grips. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:46, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I think that's just because the finish of the frame is slightly glossy compared to the grips. I'll see what that shot looks like when I get there, but you have to admit that that one shot of it being slight paler grey doesn't really prove it's bright, reflective stainless steel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:17, 6 November 2011 (CST)

The Beretta in the previous games would sometimes look like the first picture due to lighting but they were still Inox's --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:21, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Perhaps, but these are ''usually'' black, even in strong light. They catch the light from time to time is all, they're not silver as far as I can tell from my videos so far. Notes also the silver screws on the grip in your shot are much brighter than the frame and slide are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Having played the game myself, I'll tell you right now the gun clearly is NOT an Inox. --[[User:K|K]] 17:53, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:U3ddberettaInox.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Uncharted3-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta has seemingly been downgraded to the status of paperweight in the sequel.]]

You can see the contrast of slide and frame to grip and holster strap clearly here. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:58, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Equally, you can see the frame and slide are not silver while the screws on the grip are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 6 November 2011 (CST)

There is no way you can say that that the Beretta is black. It's just a tiny bit darker than the screws. Once you get to the level where you are sneaking ono the cargo plane you can see that it's an Inox. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Being very dark grey and being stainless steel are hardly the same thing. If it were an Inox the screws and slide / frame would be the exact same colour (as they are in Uncharted 2), the slide would not be dark grey when the screws are almost white. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:57, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Notice that the coloring of the Beretta of the first picture is the same as the Beretta listed in the page under Beretta 92FS Inox. Also note how the screws in the picture that was originally on the page are brighter than the slide/frame.

:::Actually I can't see that at all. Certainly not to the extent of the contrast on the suppressed pistol. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:16, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because the lighting is different in both pictures, the brighter screws might just be a result of the quality of the video. There is no way you can call the Beretta in the first pic a standard 92FS. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:24, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::But the first pic looks terrible, Nathan and Elena look like waxworks and the frame is torn at the top. I wouldn't regard is as a reliable indication of what that scene actually looks like until I've seen it myself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:29, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::The only thing that is wrong with that pic is that the frame is torn from converting it into a jpg, it's much better quality tha the pic you provided to prove that it was a regular 92FS. How much do you think the scene is going to change, that Nate is actually putting an M134 minigun in his holster. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:35, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Well, that the colours won't look wrong on the two human characters. Regardless, there's no point discussing this further until I get home to get the rest of the weapons screencapped. Also, how on earth do you tear a screenshot with jpeg conversion? Screen tearing is a lack of vsync. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:40, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Oh yeah, I forgot that Drake had blue skin and Elena's was green. And the screen didn't actually "tear" per say, but instead doubled the image and overlapped one but put it lower and I didn't realize it until after I uploaded it. I was forced to save this image via paint, because my crappy computer can only handle that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lose the attitude. It doesn't help. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:49, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::: Sorry man, it's not you I'm mad at, the New England Patriots just Lost and I'm pissed. I didn't mean to take it out on you, sorry. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:55, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Ah, don't worry about it. I'll be home in five hours or so to get the rest of those screenshots and I'll look over the video of the first stealth mission again while I'm at it. Only thing I won't get is supposedly there's a multi-only FAL and I'm not going to hit level 50 on a one week rental. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:11, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Lol, I'm renting it to, but I didn't get online pass so I can't play online, but I did hear that the FAL was a semi automatic. You can get much better views of the Beretta in question during the mission where you have to get on the cargo plane and the cutscene that sets up the mission, has some pretty decent shots of it too, so I hope that helps. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:19, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Still playing and recording, and I think I see what's up with that weapon. It ''is'' black, but the specular mapping for it is metallic, so in the right light it reflects like bare metal (the Dan Wesson PPC does exactly the same). There's a few weapons with weird specular settings; the SPAS looks like the entire heat sheild is chrome plated if you get the right light on it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:14, 7 November 2011 (CST)

== AKS-74U ==
I think the "KAL-7" is actually based on the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U because you can see in game, as well as in the title screen picture listed here that it uses 7.62x39mm AK-47 magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:38, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Also, I think the Arm Micro is based on the MasterPiece Arms MPA930SST as opposed to the model listed as the one in game is side cocking with a rail mounted on top of the receiver much like the MPA330SST. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:41, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I'll fix that when I get home, didn't see the top rail on it when I was checking my videos. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Just as some notes: I now have the ''entire game'' recorded, I'll get caps tomorrow. I think the flare pistol is based on the 3-barrel Type 90 flaregun. I'm not going to include Talbot's tranq gun, the only time you see it at all it's dark, the gun is black on a black suit, and he's already almost put it back in his jacket as the scene cuts to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 7 November 2011 (CST)

==Colt Defender==
The comment about the Defender's Mag capacity was wrong. Colt gives it as 7+1 or 8+1 on their website.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 15:29, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== Similarities to The Last Crusade ==

Spoiler Alert!!!
:
''Indiana Jones'' has obviously had a heavy influence on the Uncharted series, but this one is ridiculous! Where to start? Third in the trilogy. A main theme is Drake's relationship with Sully, the father figure. It starts off showing a young Drake stealing the thing the badguys are after and being chased, starting his adventuring career. Drake is taken captive onto a ship where he fights his way off and jumps into the water as the ship sinks, leaving him in the middle of the ocean. When Drake and Sully are shown around Yemen by Elena it is reminiscent of when Indy and Marcus are shown around Venice by Elsa and before long they climb into a hole in the ground. Drake makes a rubbing of a clue in the knight's tomb. Drake and Sully have to escape from a burning castle shortly after going through a secret door in the fireplace. Drake stows away on a big transport aircraft only to be forced to bail out. Phrases pop up like "Two days head start", "Into the lion's den", "The name of a city" and "Out of range". Drake attacks an armored convoy, in the desert canyons, on horseback, with the help of arabs who happen to be sworn to protect the thing everyone's after, and rescue Sully who's being held in one of the vehicles by holding on while he dangles over the side and Salim (Sallah) pulls him onto his horse. Sully is shot near the end only to be miraculously fine once magic water comes into play. Of course the ancient ruins collapse as soon as the heroes get done with it. Also, duh, they talk about the actual crusades quite a bit. Greatness from Great beginnings I guess!--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]]

You know, that is very smart thinking..Now you notice it, there is a very much similar to The Last Crusade! --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

:Given Nathan has now accidentally blown up El Dorado, Shambala and Iram of the Pillars (with increasingly less effort each time), I'm guessing in the next one he'll find Atlantis but then a mouse will sneeze and it'll sink. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:39, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::El Dorado didn't blow up, the helicopter wreckage dragged it (it was a giant golden coffin containing a virus of some kind, not a city) to the bottom of the ocean. He also didn't blow Iram up, it sort of just sank into a sinkhole. As far as finding Atlantis and a mouse sneeze causing it to sink... I totally agree. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:31, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

:::According to the Atlantis myth, Atlantis already sunk. That's what caused it to the become the "Lost City of Atlantis." It would be hard to sink something that is already underwater. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:36, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::I'd kinda forgotten what the hell happened in 1, but I know there was a lost city and I'm sure it got splosioned. With Atlantis obviously he's going to raise it (which his <s>printed copy of gamefaqs</s> diary will tell him how to do) and then sink it. Also technically he didn't find Iram of the Many Pillars, he found Iram of the One Big Structurally Unsound Pillar, so maybe he'll find the rest of the pillars. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:41, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Who says the devs have to adhere to the myth? They certainly didn't with El Dorado nor did they with the Cintamani stone. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:25, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::You really couldn't create a game about Atlantis, without acknowledging that it is underwater, that's what it is known for. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:09, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::::::Well obviously, yeah. You get into it through some caves or tunnels or something full of ancient machinery 50% of which works perfectly and the other 50% of which spontaneously falls apart just after a chiseled heroic man moves near it, have all the underwater stuff, raise it up by consulting Drake's all-seeing diary, and then sink it again while blowing it up for good measure. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:14, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

Well, it couldn't be blown up until there was a speedboat convoy that Drake rides up to on a seahorse, and then jumps from speedboat to speedboat as they line up next to the ones that catch fire in order to let Drake jump over to them instead of just leaving him on the one about to blowup, even they are trying to kill him. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:19, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:And he's being chased by a Hind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:21, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::Until he reaches the boat with the convenient can of any Anti-Russian Gunship spray. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:23, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== Salim's revolver ==
In cutscenes Salim has a revolver holstered on his left side that he never uses in the game. What little of the frame I can see of it says Webley to me, but revolvers aren't really my strong point. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:40, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Talk:Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

2014-11-10T21:18:07Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Similarities to The Last Crusade */

== Thanks ==

Thanks to whoever corrected me on the ID of the revolver. By the way, (just out of curiosity) where is the cylinder release on that Dan Wesson? --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 21:24, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:In front of the cylinder. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:15, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Guns Missing that I can see ==

Pistol - Sniper Tau

Appears to be the same as the Wes-44 from previous games, but with a sniper scope fitted.

:Hell it does.

[[Image:Uncharted3-WesandTau-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Taurus Raging Bull? I guess that's where the "Tau" comes from. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:15, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's a Raging Bull alright. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:54, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Sniper rifle - T-Bolt Sniper

Bolt-action Sniper Rifle, 1 shot kill every time regardless of hit location.
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bolt_Sniper

==Adding Pics==

Also i keep trying to add a image to AKS-74U but i can't because i need more simpler
hints on how to add a image to pages so i need some help on adding images so
i need some guys to tell me how to add an image also displaying a image

== Any idea what the pistol in the top left is? ==

[[Image:Uncharted-Dashboard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full HD shot to make it biggar.]]

And yes, I have the ''Valkyria Chronicles'' theme. I'm a sucker for a game about tanks, ok? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:11, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like Makarov PM or Walther PP or similar pistol. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 3 November 2011 (CDT)
:''Valkyria Chronicles, heh''

Got another shot of it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-Cutterpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's Cutter's gun. Looks a bit like a Makarov, but there's a control above the trigger that neither a Makarov or a PP / PPK have. Also, as a note of interest, Cutter is voiced by Graham McTavish, who was, of all people, ''Lazarevic'' in the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Walther P5 [[File:P5Wood.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 07:21, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Yup, that's the one, thanks. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:27, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:What a cool dashboard. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:26, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== OMG! ==

Just wanted to say: this game is AWESOME! The true definition of action game. Compared to it, CoD games are like a day in retirement home :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:16, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:I so prefer a game like this over COD:MW3, too bad I can't play it, I have every console ''except'' a PS3. D: - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:24, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::I played the game at the video game shop and felt like I should buy PS3 like, right NOW. They call it PS3's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application killer app] :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:::The game looks amazing indeed, and I am stuck with F2P shooters on my shitty PC. I hate console-only games. Excuse me, now I'm going to beat myself to death with my Logitech keyboard. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, it's totally unfair for such games to be console exclusive :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== T-Bolt Sniper Rifle ==
Why isn't the T-Bolt listed on this page it's modeled after the Finnish TKIV-85 rifle. I would add it myself but I can't add pictures from my iPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:44, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I haven't got far enough to get a shot of it yet, I'll add it when I have one. I've already got a TKIV-85 image ready, I'll upload it when I add it. Obviously I can't really write an entry for a weapon I've never used, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:47, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Weapon image, placed here for now:

[[Image:7.62 TKIV 85.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Finnish TKIV-85 rifle - 7.62x53mmR]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:18, 6 November 2011 (CST)

== Suppressed 92FS is not an Inox ==

I didn't use this shot because the video was blurry, but it basically proves it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that even in bright light, the Beretta is the same colour as Nathan's suit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:03, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:417px-Silencer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that the Beretta is not the same color as the Houge grips. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:46, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I think that's just because the finish of the frame is slightly glossy compared to the grips. I'll see what that shot looks like when I get there, but you have to admit that that one shot of it being slight paler grey doesn't really prove it's bright, reflective stainless steel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:17, 6 November 2011 (CST)

The Beretta in the previous games would sometimes look like the first picture due to lighting but they were still Inox's --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:21, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Perhaps, but these are ''usually'' black, even in strong light. They catch the light from time to time is all, they're not silver as far as I can tell from my videos so far. Notes also the silver screws on the grip in your shot are much brighter than the frame and slide are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Having played the game myself, I'll tell you right now the gun clearly is NOT an Inox. --[[User:K|K]] 17:53, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:U3ddberettaInox.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Uncharted3-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta has seemingly been downgraded to the status of paperweight in the sequel.]]

You can see the contrast of slide and frame to grip and holster strap clearly here. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:58, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Equally, you can see the frame and slide are not silver while the screws on the grip are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 6 November 2011 (CST)

There is no way you can say that that the Beretta is black. It's just a tiny bit darker than the screws. Once you get to the level where you are sneaking ono the cargo plane you can see that it's an Inox. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Being very dark grey and being stainless steel are hardly the same thing. If it were an Inox the screws and slide / frame would be the exact same colour (as they are in Uncharted 2), the slide would not be dark grey when the screws are almost white. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:57, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Notice that the coloring of the Beretta of the first picture is the same as the Beretta listed in the page under Beretta 92FS Inox. Also note how the screws in the picture that was originally on the page are brighter than the slide/frame.

:::Actually I can't see that at all. Certainly not to the extent of the contrast on the suppressed pistol. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:16, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because the lighting is different in both pictures, the brighter screws might just be a result of the quality of the video. There is no way you can call the Beretta in the first pic a standard 92FS. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:24, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::But the first pic looks terrible, Nathan and Elena look like waxworks and the frame is torn at the top. I wouldn't regard is as a reliable indication of what that scene actually looks like until I've seen it myself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:29, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::The only thing that is wrong with that pic is that the frame is torn from converting it into a jpg, it's much better quality tha the pic you provided to prove that it was a regular 92FS. How much do you think the scene is going to change, that Nate is actually putting an M134 minigun in his holster. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:35, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Well, that the colours won't look wrong on the two human characters. Regardless, there's no point discussing this further until I get home to get the rest of the weapons screencapped. Also, how on earth do you tear a screenshot with jpeg conversion? Screen tearing is a lack of vsync. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:40, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Oh yeah, I forgot that Drake had blue skin and Elena's was green. And the screen didn't actually "tear" per say, but instead doubled the image and overlapped one but put it lower and I didn't realize it until after I uploaded it. I was forced to save this image via paint, because my crappy computer can only handle that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lose the attitude. It doesn't help. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:49, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::: Sorry man, it's not you I'm mad at, the New England Patriots just Lost and I'm pissed. I didn't mean to take it out on you, sorry. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:55, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Ah, don't worry about it. I'll be home in five hours or so to get the rest of those screenshots and I'll look over the video of the first stealth mission again while I'm at it. Only thing I won't get is supposedly there's a multi-only FAL and I'm not going to hit level 50 on a one week rental. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:11, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Lol, I'm renting it to, but I didn't get online pass so I can't play online, but I did hear that the FAL was a semi automatic. You can get much better views of the Beretta in question during the mission where you have to get on the cargo plane and the cutscene that sets up the mission, has some pretty decent shots of it too, so I hope that helps. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:19, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Still playing and recording, and I think I see what's up with that weapon. It ''is'' black, but the specular mapping for it is metallic, so in the right light it reflects like bare metal (the Dan Wesson PPC does exactly the same). There's a few weapons with weird specular settings; the SPAS looks like the entire heat sheild is chrome plated if you get the right light on it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:14, 7 November 2011 (CST)

== AKS-74U ==
I think the "KAL-7" is actually based on the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U because you can see in game, as well as in the title screen picture listed here that it uses 7.62x39mm AK-47 magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:38, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Also, I think the Arm Micro is based on the MasterPiece Arms MPA930SST as opposed to the model listed as the one in game is side cocking with a rail mounted on top of the receiver much like the MPA330SST. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:41, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I'll fix that when I get home, didn't see the top rail on it when I was checking my videos. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Just as some notes: I now have the ''entire game'' recorded, I'll get caps tomorrow. I think the flare pistol is based on the 3-barrel Type 90 flaregun. I'm not going to include Talbot's tranq gun, the only time you see it at all it's dark, the gun is black on a black suit, and he's already almost put it back in his jacket as the scene cuts to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 7 November 2011 (CST)

==Colt Defender==
The comment about the Defender's Mag capacity was wrong. Colt gives it as 7+1 or 8+1 on their website.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 15:29, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== Similarities to The Last Crusade ==

Spoiler Alert!!!
:
''Indiana Jones'' has obviously had a heavy influence on the Uncharted series, but this one is ridiculous! Where to start? Third in the trilogy. A main theme is Drake's relationship with Sully, the father figure. It starts off showing a young Drake stealing the thing the badguys are after and being chased, starting his adventuring career. Drake is taken captive onto a ship where he fights his way off and jumps into the water as the ship sinks, leaving him in the middle of the ocean. When Drake and Sully are shown around Yemen by Elena it is reminiscent of when Indy and Marcus are shown around Venice by Elsa and before long they climb into a hole in the ground. Drake makes a rubbing of a clue in the knight's tomb. Drake and Sully have to escape from a burning castle shortly after going through a secret door in the fireplace. Drake stows away on a big transport aircraft only to be forced to bail out. Phrases pop up like "Two days head start", "Into the lion's den", "The name of a city" and "Out of range". Drake attacks an armored convoy, in the desert canyons, on horseback, with the help of arabs who happen to be sworn to protect the thing everyone's after, and rescue Sully who's being held in one of the vehicles by holding on while he dangles over the side and Salim/Sallah pulls him onto his horse. Sully is shot near the end only to be miraculously fine once magic water comes into play. Of course the ancient ruins collapse as soon as the heroes get done with it. Also, duh, they talk about the actual crusades quite a bit. Greatness from Great beginnings I guess!--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]]

You know, that is very smart thinking..Now you notice it, there is a very much similar to The Last Crusade! --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

:Given Nathan has now accidentally blown up El Dorado, Shambala and Iram of the Pillars (with increasingly less effort each time), I'm guessing in the next one he'll find Atlantis but then a mouse will sneeze and it'll sink. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:39, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::El Dorado didn't blow up, the helicopter wreckage dragged it (it was a giant golden coffin containing a virus of some kind, not a city) to the bottom of the ocean. He also didn't blow Iram up, it sort of just sank into a sinkhole. As far as finding Atlantis and a mouse sneeze causing it to sink... I totally agree. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:31, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

:::According to the Atlantis myth, Atlantis already sunk. That's what caused it to the become the "Lost City of Atlantis." It would be hard to sink something that is already underwater. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:36, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::I'd kinda forgotten what the hell happened in 1, but I know there was a lost city and I'm sure it got splosioned. With Atlantis obviously he's going to raise it (which his <s>printed copy of gamefaqs</s> diary will tell him how to do) and then sink it. Also technically he didn't find Iram of the Many Pillars, he found Iram of the One Big Structurally Unsound Pillar, so maybe he'll find the rest of the pillars. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:41, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Who says the devs have to adhere to the myth? They certainly didn't with El Dorado nor did they with the Cintamani stone. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:25, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::You really couldn't create a game about Atlantis, without acknowledging that it is underwater, that's what it is known for. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:09, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::::::Well obviously, yeah. You get into it through some caves or tunnels or something full of ancient machinery 50% of which works perfectly and the other 50% of which spontaneously falls apart just after a chiseled heroic man moves near it, have all the underwater stuff, raise it up by consulting Drake's all-seeing diary, and then sink it again while blowing it up for good measure. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:14, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

Well, it couldn't be blown up until there was a speedboat convoy that Drake rides up to on a seahorse, and then jumps from speedboat to speedboat as they line up next to the ones that catch fire in order to let Drake jump over to them instead of just leaving him on the one about to blowup, even they are trying to kill him. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:19, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:And he's being chased by a Hind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:21, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::Until he reaches the boat with the convenient can of any Anti-Russian Gunship spray. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:23, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== Salim's revolver ==
In cutscenes Salim has a revolver holstered on his left side that he never uses in the game. What little of the frame I can see of it says Webley to me, but revolvers aren't really my strong point. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:40, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Talk:Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

2014-11-10T21:07:24Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Similarities to The Last Crusade */

== Thanks ==

Thanks to whoever corrected me on the ID of the revolver. By the way, (just out of curiosity) where is the cylinder release on that Dan Wesson? --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 21:24, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:In front of the cylinder. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:15, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Guns Missing that I can see ==

Pistol - Sniper Tau

Appears to be the same as the Wes-44 from previous games, but with a sniper scope fitted.

:Hell it does.

[[Image:Uncharted3-WesandTau-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Taurus Raging Bull? I guess that's where the "Tau" comes from. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:15, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's a Raging Bull alright. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:54, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Sniper rifle - T-Bolt Sniper

Bolt-action Sniper Rifle, 1 shot kill every time regardless of hit location.
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bolt_Sniper

==Adding Pics==

Also i keep trying to add a image to AKS-74U but i can't because i need more simpler
hints on how to add a image to pages so i need some help on adding images so
i need some guys to tell me how to add an image also displaying a image

== Any idea what the pistol in the top left is? ==

[[Image:Uncharted-Dashboard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full HD shot to make it biggar.]]

And yes, I have the ''Valkyria Chronicles'' theme. I'm a sucker for a game about tanks, ok? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:11, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like Makarov PM or Walther PP or similar pistol. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 3 November 2011 (CDT)
:''Valkyria Chronicles, heh''

Got another shot of it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-Cutterpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's Cutter's gun. Looks a bit like a Makarov, but there's a control above the trigger that neither a Makarov or a PP / PPK have. Also, as a note of interest, Cutter is voiced by Graham McTavish, who was, of all people, ''Lazarevic'' in the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Walther P5 [[File:P5Wood.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 07:21, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Yup, that's the one, thanks. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:27, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:What a cool dashboard. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:26, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== OMG! ==

Just wanted to say: this game is AWESOME! The true definition of action game. Compared to it, CoD games are like a day in retirement home :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:16, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:I so prefer a game like this over COD:MW3, too bad I can't play it, I have every console ''except'' a PS3. D: - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:24, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::I played the game at the video game shop and felt like I should buy PS3 like, right NOW. They call it PS3's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application killer app] :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:::The game looks amazing indeed, and I am stuck with F2P shooters on my shitty PC. I hate console-only games. Excuse me, now I'm going to beat myself to death with my Logitech keyboard. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, it's totally unfair for such games to be console exclusive :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== T-Bolt Sniper Rifle ==
Why isn't the T-Bolt listed on this page it's modeled after the Finnish TKIV-85 rifle. I would add it myself but I can't add pictures from my iPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:44, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I haven't got far enough to get a shot of it yet, I'll add it when I have one. I've already got a TKIV-85 image ready, I'll upload it when I add it. Obviously I can't really write an entry for a weapon I've never used, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:47, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Weapon image, placed here for now:

[[Image:7.62 TKIV 85.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Finnish TKIV-85 rifle - 7.62x53mmR]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:18, 6 November 2011 (CST)

== Suppressed 92FS is not an Inox ==

I didn't use this shot because the video was blurry, but it basically proves it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that even in bright light, the Beretta is the same colour as Nathan's suit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:03, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:417px-Silencer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that the Beretta is not the same color as the Houge grips. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:46, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I think that's just because the finish of the frame is slightly glossy compared to the grips. I'll see what that shot looks like when I get there, but you have to admit that that one shot of it being slight paler grey doesn't really prove it's bright, reflective stainless steel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:17, 6 November 2011 (CST)

The Beretta in the previous games would sometimes look like the first picture due to lighting but they were still Inox's --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:21, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Perhaps, but these are ''usually'' black, even in strong light. They catch the light from time to time is all, they're not silver as far as I can tell from my videos so far. Notes also the silver screws on the grip in your shot are much brighter than the frame and slide are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Having played the game myself, I'll tell you right now the gun clearly is NOT an Inox. --[[User:K|K]] 17:53, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:U3ddberettaInox.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Uncharted3-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta has seemingly been downgraded to the status of paperweight in the sequel.]]

You can see the contrast of slide and frame to grip and holster strap clearly here. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:58, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Equally, you can see the frame and slide are not silver while the screws on the grip are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 6 November 2011 (CST)

There is no way you can say that that the Beretta is black. It's just a tiny bit darker than the screws. Once you get to the level where you are sneaking ono the cargo plane you can see that it's an Inox. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Being very dark grey and being stainless steel are hardly the same thing. If it were an Inox the screws and slide / frame would be the exact same colour (as they are in Uncharted 2), the slide would not be dark grey when the screws are almost white. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:57, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Notice that the coloring of the Beretta of the first picture is the same as the Beretta listed in the page under Beretta 92FS Inox. Also note how the screws in the picture that was originally on the page are brighter than the slide/frame.

:::Actually I can't see that at all. Certainly not to the extent of the contrast on the suppressed pistol. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:16, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because the lighting is different in both pictures, the brighter screws might just be a result of the quality of the video. There is no way you can call the Beretta in the first pic a standard 92FS. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:24, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::But the first pic looks terrible, Nathan and Elena look like waxworks and the frame is torn at the top. I wouldn't regard is as a reliable indication of what that scene actually looks like until I've seen it myself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:29, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::The only thing that is wrong with that pic is that the frame is torn from converting it into a jpg, it's much better quality tha the pic you provided to prove that it was a regular 92FS. How much do you think the scene is going to change, that Nate is actually putting an M134 minigun in his holster. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:35, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Well, that the colours won't look wrong on the two human characters. Regardless, there's no point discussing this further until I get home to get the rest of the weapons screencapped. Also, how on earth do you tear a screenshot with jpeg conversion? Screen tearing is a lack of vsync. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:40, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Oh yeah, I forgot that Drake had blue skin and Elena's was green. And the screen didn't actually "tear" per say, but instead doubled the image and overlapped one but put it lower and I didn't realize it until after I uploaded it. I was forced to save this image via paint, because my crappy computer can only handle that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lose the attitude. It doesn't help. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:49, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::: Sorry man, it's not you I'm mad at, the New England Patriots just Lost and I'm pissed. I didn't mean to take it out on you, sorry. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:55, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Ah, don't worry about it. I'll be home in five hours or so to get the rest of those screenshots and I'll look over the video of the first stealth mission again while I'm at it. Only thing I won't get is supposedly there's a multi-only FAL and I'm not going to hit level 50 on a one week rental. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:11, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Lol, I'm renting it to, but I didn't get online pass so I can't play online, but I did hear that the FAL was a semi automatic. You can get much better views of the Beretta in question during the mission where you have to get on the cargo plane and the cutscene that sets up the mission, has some pretty decent shots of it too, so I hope that helps. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:19, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Still playing and recording, and I think I see what's up with that weapon. It ''is'' black, but the specular mapping for it is metallic, so in the right light it reflects like bare metal (the Dan Wesson PPC does exactly the same). There's a few weapons with weird specular settings; the SPAS looks like the entire heat sheild is chrome plated if you get the right light on it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:14, 7 November 2011 (CST)

== AKS-74U ==
I think the "KAL-7" is actually based on the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U because you can see in game, as well as in the title screen picture listed here that it uses 7.62x39mm AK-47 magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:38, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Also, I think the Arm Micro is based on the MasterPiece Arms MPA930SST as opposed to the model listed as the one in game is side cocking with a rail mounted on top of the receiver much like the MPA330SST. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:41, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I'll fix that when I get home, didn't see the top rail on it when I was checking my videos. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Just as some notes: I now have the ''entire game'' recorded, I'll get caps tomorrow. I think the flare pistol is based on the 3-barrel Type 90 flaregun. I'm not going to include Talbot's tranq gun, the only time you see it at all it's dark, the gun is black on a black suit, and he's already almost put it back in his jacket as the scene cuts to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 7 November 2011 (CST)

==Colt Defender==
The comment about the Defender's Mag capacity was wrong. Colt gives it as 7+1 or 8+1 on their website.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 15:29, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== Similarities to The Last Crusade ==

Spoiler Alert!!!
:
''Indiana Jones'' has obviously had a heavy influence on the Uncharted series, but this one is ridiculous! Where to start? Third in the trilogy. A main theme is Drake's relationship with Sully, the father figure. It starts off showing a young Drake stealing the thing the badguys are after and being chased, starting his adventuring career. Drake is taken captive onto a ship where he fights his way off and jumps into the water as the ship sinks, leaving him in the middle of the ocean. When Drake and Sully are shown around Yemen by Elena it is reminiscent of when Indy and Marcus are shown around Venice by Elsa. Drake makes a rubbing of a clue in the knight's tomb. Drake and Sully have to escape from a burning castle shortly after going through a secret door in the fireplace. Drake stows away on a big transport aircraft only to be forced to bail out. Phrases pop up like "Two days head start", "Into the lion's den", "The name of a city" and "Out of range". Drake attacks an armored convoy, in the desert, on horseback, with the help of arabs who happen to be sworn to protect the thing everyone's after, and rescue Sully who's being held in one of the vehicles. Sully is shot near the end only to be miraculously fine once magic water comes into play. Of course the ancient ruins collapse as soon as the heroes get done with it. Also, duh, they talk about the actual crusades quite a bit. Greatness from Great beginnings I guess!--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]]

You know, that is very smart thinking..Now you notice it, there is a very much similar to The Last Crusade! --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

:Given Nathan has now accidentally blown up El Dorado, Shambala and Iram of the Pillars (with increasingly less effort each time), I'm guessing in the next one he'll find Atlantis but then a mouse will sneeze and it'll sink. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:39, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::El Dorado didn't blow up, the helicopter wreckage dragged it (it was a giant golden coffin containing a virus of some kind, not a city) to the bottom of the ocean. He also didn't blow Iram up, it sort of just sank into a sinkhole. As far as finding Atlantis and a mouse sneeze causing it to sink... I totally agree. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:31, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

:::According to the Atlantis myth, Atlantis already sunk. That's what caused it to the become the "Lost City of Atlantis." It would be hard to sink something that is already underwater. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:36, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::I'd kinda forgotten what the hell happened in 1, but I know there was a lost city and I'm sure it got splosioned. With Atlantis obviously he's going to raise it (which his <s>printed copy of gamefaqs</s> diary will tell him how to do) and then sink it. Also technically he didn't find Iram of the Many Pillars, he found Iram of the One Big Structurally Unsound Pillar, so maybe he'll find the rest of the pillars. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:41, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Who says the devs have to adhere to the myth? They certainly didn't with El Dorado nor did they with the Cintamani stone. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:25, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::You really couldn't create a game about Atlantis, without acknowledging that it is underwater, that's what it is known for. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:09, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::::::Well obviously, yeah. You get into it through some caves or tunnels or something full of ancient machinery 50% of which works perfectly and the other 50% of which spontaneously falls apart just after a chiseled heroic man moves near it, have all the underwater stuff, raise it up by consulting Drake's all-seeing diary, and then sink it again while blowing it up for good measure. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:14, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

Well, it couldn't be blown up until there was a speedboat convoy that Drake rides up to on a seahorse, and then jumps from speedboat to speedboat as they line up next to the ones that catch fire in order to let Drake jump over to them instead of just leaving him on the one about to blowup, even they are trying to kill him. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:19, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:And he's being chased by a Hind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:21, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::Until he reaches the boat with the convenient can of any Anti-Russian Gunship spray. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:23, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== Salim's revolver ==
In cutscenes Salim has a revolver holstered on his left side that he never uses in the game. What little of the frame I can see of it says Webley to me, but revolvers aren't really my strong point. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:40, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Talk:Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

2014-05-09T02:09:06Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Similarities to The Last Crusade */

== Thanks ==

Thanks to whoever corrected me on the ID of the revolver. By the way, (just out of curiosity) where is the cylinder release on that Dan Wesson? --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 21:24, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:In front of the cylinder. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:15, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Guns Missing that I can see ==

Pistol - Sniper Tau

Appears to be the same as the Wes-44 from previous games, but with a sniper scope fitted.

:Hell it does.

[[Image:Uncharted3-WesandTau-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Taurus Raging Bull? I guess that's where the "Tau" comes from. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:15, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's a Raging Bull alright. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:54, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Sniper rifle - T-Bolt Sniper

Bolt-action Sniper Rifle, 1 shot kill every time regardless of hit location.
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bolt_Sniper

==Adding Pics==

Also i keep trying to add a image to AKS-74U but i can't because i need more simpler
hints on how to add a image to pages so i need some help on adding images so
i need some guys to tell me how to add an image also displaying a image

== Any idea what the pistol in the top left is? ==

[[Image:Uncharted-Dashboard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full HD shot to make it biggar.]]

And yes, I have the ''Valkyria Chronicles'' theme. I'm a sucker for a game about tanks, ok? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:11, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like Makarov PM or Walther PP or similar pistol. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 3 November 2011 (CDT)
:''Valkyria Chronicles, heh''

Got another shot of it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-Cutterpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's Cutter's gun. Looks a bit like a Makarov, but there's a control above the trigger that neither a Makarov or a PP / PPK have. Also, as a note of interest, Cutter is voiced by Graham McTavish, who was, of all people, ''Lazarevic'' in the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Walther P5 [[File:P5Wood.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 07:21, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Yup, that's the one, thanks. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:27, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:What a cool dashboard. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:26, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== OMG! ==

Just wanted to say: this game is AWESOME! The true definition of action game. Compared to it, CoD games are like a day in retirement home :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:16, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:I so prefer a game like this over COD:MW3, too bad I can't play it, I have every console ''except'' a PS3. D: - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:24, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::I played the game at the video game shop and felt like I should buy PS3 like, right NOW. They call it PS3's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application killer app] :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:::The game looks amazing indeed, and I am stuck with F2P shooters on my shitty PC. I hate console-only games. Excuse me, now I'm going to beat myself to death with my Logitech keyboard. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, it's totally unfair for such games to be console exclusive :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== T-Bolt Sniper Rifle ==
Why isn't the T-Bolt listed on this page it's modeled after the Finnish TKIV-85 rifle. I would add it myself but I can't add pictures from my iPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:44, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I haven't got far enough to get a shot of it yet, I'll add it when I have one. I've already got a TKIV-85 image ready, I'll upload it when I add it. Obviously I can't really write an entry for a weapon I've never used, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:47, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Weapon image, placed here for now:

[[Image:7.62 TKIV 85.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Finnish TKIV-85 rifle - 7.62x53mmR]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:18, 6 November 2011 (CST)

== Suppressed 92FS is not an Inox ==

I didn't use this shot because the video was blurry, but it basically proves it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that even in bright light, the Beretta is the same colour as Nathan's suit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:03, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:417px-Silencer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that the Beretta is not the same color as the Houge grips. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:46, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I think that's just because the finish of the frame is slightly glossy compared to the grips. I'll see what that shot looks like when I get there, but you have to admit that that one shot of it being slight paler grey doesn't really prove it's bright, reflective stainless steel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:17, 6 November 2011 (CST)

The Beretta in the previous games would sometimes look like the first picture due to lighting but they were still Inox's --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:21, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Perhaps, but these are ''usually'' black, even in strong light. They catch the light from time to time is all, they're not silver as far as I can tell from my videos so far. Notes also the silver screws on the grip in your shot are much brighter than the frame and slide are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Having played the game myself, I'll tell you right now the gun clearly is NOT an Inox. --[[User:K|K]] 17:53, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:U3ddberettaInox.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Uncharted3-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta has seemingly been downgraded to the status of paperweight in the sequel.]]

You can see the contrast of slide and frame to grip and holster strap clearly here. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:58, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Equally, you can see the frame and slide are not silver while the screws on the grip are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 6 November 2011 (CST)

There is no way you can say that that the Beretta is black. It's just a tiny bit darker than the screws. Once you get to the level where you are sneaking ono the cargo plane you can see that it's an Inox. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Being very dark grey and being stainless steel are hardly the same thing. If it were an Inox the screws and slide / frame would be the exact same colour (as they are in Uncharted 2), the slide would not be dark grey when the screws are almost white. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:57, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Notice that the coloring of the Beretta of the first picture is the same as the Beretta listed in the page under Beretta 92FS Inox. Also note how the screws in the picture that was originally on the page are brighter than the slide/frame.

:::Actually I can't see that at all. Certainly not to the extent of the contrast on the suppressed pistol. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:16, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because the lighting is different in both pictures, the brighter screws might just be a result of the quality of the video. There is no way you can call the Beretta in the first pic a standard 92FS. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:24, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::But the first pic looks terrible, Nathan and Elena look like waxworks and the frame is torn at the top. I wouldn't regard is as a reliable indication of what that scene actually looks like until I've seen it myself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:29, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::The only thing that is wrong with that pic is that the frame is torn from converting it into a jpg, it's much better quality tha the pic you provided to prove that it was a regular 92FS. How much do you think the scene is going to change, that Nate is actually putting an M134 minigun in his holster. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:35, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Well, that the colours won't look wrong on the two human characters. Regardless, there's no point discussing this further until I get home to get the rest of the weapons screencapped. Also, how on earth do you tear a screenshot with jpeg conversion? Screen tearing is a lack of vsync. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:40, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Oh yeah, I forgot that Drake had blue skin and Elena's was green. And the screen didn't actually "tear" per say, but instead doubled the image and overlapped one but put it lower and I didn't realize it until after I uploaded it. I was forced to save this image via paint, because my crappy computer can only handle that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lose the attitude. It doesn't help. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:49, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::: Sorry man, it's not you I'm mad at, the New England Patriots just Lost and I'm pissed. I didn't mean to take it out on you, sorry. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:55, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Ah, don't worry about it. I'll be home in five hours or so to get the rest of those screenshots and I'll look over the video of the first stealth mission again while I'm at it. Only thing I won't get is supposedly there's a multi-only FAL and I'm not going to hit level 50 on a one week rental. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:11, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Lol, I'm renting it to, but I didn't get online pass so I can't play online, but I did hear that the FAL was a semi automatic. You can get much better views of the Beretta in question during the mission where you have to get on the cargo plane and the cutscene that sets up the mission, has some pretty decent shots of it too, so I hope that helps. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:19, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Still playing and recording, and I think I see what's up with that weapon. It ''is'' black, but the specular mapping for it is metallic, so in the right light it reflects like bare metal (the Dan Wesson PPC does exactly the same). There's a few weapons with weird specular settings; the SPAS looks like the entire heat sheild is chrome plated if you get the right light on it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:14, 7 November 2011 (CST)

== AKS-74U ==
I think the "KAL-7" is actually based on the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U because you can see in game, as well as in the title screen picture listed here that it uses 7.62x39mm AK-47 magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:38, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Also, I think the Arm Micro is based on the MasterPiece Arms MPA930SST as opposed to the model listed as the one in game is side cocking with a rail mounted on top of the receiver much like the MPA330SST. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:41, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I'll fix that when I get home, didn't see the top rail on it when I was checking my videos. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Just as some notes: I now have the ''entire game'' recorded, I'll get caps tomorrow. I think the flare pistol is based on the 3-barrel Type 90 flaregun. I'm not going to include Talbot's tranq gun, the only time you see it at all it's dark, the gun is black on a black suit, and he's already almost put it back in his jacket as the scene cuts to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 7 November 2011 (CST)

==Colt Defender==
The comment about the Defender's Mag capacity was wrong. Colt gives it as 7+1 or 8+1 on their website.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 15:29, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== Similarities to The Last Crusade ==

Spoiler Alert!!!
:
''Indiana Jones'' has obviously had a heavy influence on the Uncharted series, but this one is ridiculous! Where to start? Third in the trilogy. A main theme is Drake's relationship with Sully, the father figure. It starts off showing a young Drake stealing the thing the badguys are after and being chased, starting his adventuring career. Drake is taken captive onto a ship where he fights his way off and jumps into the water as the ship sinks, leaving him in the middle of the ocean. When Drake and Sully are shown around Yemen by Elena it is reminiscent of when Indy and Marcus are shown around Venice by Elsa. Drake makes a rubbing of a clue in the knight's tomb. Drake and Sully have to escape from a burning castle shortly after going through a secret door in the fireplace. Drake stows away on a big transport aircraft only to be forced to bail out. Phrases pop up like "Two days head start", "Into the lion's den" and "Out of range". Drake attacks an armored convoy, in the desert, on horseback, with the help of arabs who happen to be sworn to protect the thing everyone's after, and rescue Sully who's being held in one of the vehicles. Sully is shot near the end only to be miraculously fine once magic water comes into play. Of course the ancient ruins collapse as soon as the heroes get done with it. Also, duh, they talk about the actual crusades quite a bit. Greatness from Great beginnings I guess!--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]]

You know, that is very smart thinking..Now you notice it, there is a very much similar to The Last Crusade! --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

:Given Nathan has now accidentally blown up El Dorado, Shambala and Iram of the Pillars (with increasingly less effort each time), I'm guessing in the next one he'll find Atlantis but then a mouse will sneeze and it'll sink. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:39, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::El Dorado didn't blow up, the helicopter wreckage dragged it (it was a giant golden coffin containing a virus of some kind, not a city) to the bottom of the ocean. He also didn't blow Iram up, it sort of just sank into a sinkhole. As far as finding Atlantis and a mouse sneeze causing it to sink... I totally agree. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:31, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

:::According to the Atlantis myth, Atlantis already sunk. That's what caused it to the become the "Lost City of Atlantis." It would be hard to sink something that is already underwater. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:36, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::I'd kinda forgotten what the hell happened in 1, but I know there was a lost city and I'm sure it got splosioned. With Atlantis obviously he's going to raise it (which his <s>printed copy of gamefaqs</s> diary will tell him how to do) and then sink it. Also technically he didn't find Iram of the Many Pillars, he found Iram of the One Big Structurally Unsound Pillar, so maybe he'll find the rest of the pillars. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:41, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Who says the devs have to adhere to the myth? They certainly didn't with El Dorado nor did they with the Cintamani stone. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:25, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::You really couldn't create a game about Atlantis, without acknowledging that it is underwater, that's what it is known for. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:09, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::::::Well obviously, yeah. You get into it through some caves or tunnels or something full of ancient machinery 50% of which works perfectly and the other 50% of which spontaneously falls apart just after a chiseled heroic man moves near it, have all the underwater stuff, raise it up by consulting Drake's all-seeing diary, and then sink it again while blowing it up for good measure. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:14, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

Well, it couldn't be blown up until there was a speedboat convoy that Drake rides up to on a seahorse, and then jumps from speedboat to speedboat as they line up next to the ones that catch fire in order to let Drake jump over to them instead of just leaving him on the one about to blowup, even they are trying to kill him. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:19, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:And he's being chased by a Hind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:21, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::Until he reaches the boat with the convenient can of any Anti-Russian Gunship spray. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:23, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== Salim's revolver ==
In cutscenes Salim has a revolver holstered on his left side that he never uses in the game. What little of the frame I can see of it says Webley to me, but revolvers aren't really my strong point. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:40, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Talk:Shooter (2007)

2014-04-26T17:51:12Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Goof? - **SPOILERS** */

==Memphis' Glock==

-Memphis' piece could be a Glock 22, seeing is that is what an FBI agent would be using in real life and the barrel looks like it could be 10mm... at a glance atleast...?
It would make a lot of sense if it were a G22 which fires a .40 S&W round, a short 10mm.

I have explained before that just because the Glock 22 is what the FBI uses in real life does not mean that the prop gun used by Michael Pena is one. It is generally more common for blank pistols in Hollywood to be 9mm. Until evidence is presented to suggest otherwise, it's far more fair to assume this is a Glock 17. Also, Ryan Steacy, the armorer who worked on this movie, has posted on this page and corrected us when we said that the machine gun on the helicopter was a PKM (he also added more info about the Barrett M82, which can be seen above). He didn't correct us on the Glock model used, which suggests to me that we got it right. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:35, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

When the government agents try to force Memphis to commit suicide, there are some good shots of his Glock. One shot shows the bore diameter could possibly be .40. I no longer own this movie so I can't screencap it myself sadly. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

Sorry I had to move your Glock input Gunmaster, but Glock and M203, sadly, do not mix. (GamerfreakB7)

==Pop-bottle suppressed .22 LR==

- There seems to be a bit of confusion about what exactly this weapon is. To add to the mix, it almost looks like a Winchester Model 60 Cooey. The tubular magazine and the shape of the safety knob at the back of the bolt are somewhat similar, not to mention the wood carving on the stock at the grip. It is virtually identical to my own Cooey.

It looks like a Marlin 781 or 981 to me.

has no one done the silenced steyr aug that swagger uses at the end, i would but i dont know how to do images
-no because it's an m4/ar15 variant

also the statement this is the only time swagger fires right handed is untrue as there is anothe shot on the page where he shoots right handed with the m40

== Quote by Weapons Coordinator ==

Someone removed the Quote by the films Weapon Co ordinator and I just reverted it. I did so because We as a site can't get better information than First hand from the people who supply the weapons used in film. What they have to say has alot of merit towards a film.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

==Spoilers not allowed==
I am removing the extra information that pretty much outlines the plot and twists in the movie unless it is completely unavoidable. It is not necessary to repeat the entire plot of the film for the viewer. It is NOT necessary for this page and completely irrelevant to the gun information on the page. MPM20008

:Okay I understand, MPM2008. Thanks for doing so.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 00:26, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Left Handed and right handed shooting ==

Swagger naturally is right-handed. He shoots right until he is wounded in the RIGHT shoulder. Recoil from firearms hurts as it is. When you have a wounded shoulder, it REALLY hurts! Therefore, Swagger (a highly trained sniper) changes to left handed shooting (which Walberg naturally is) for the duration of the movie. There are certain times in the movie (namely the farm shootout) Swagger had to shoot right handed, in order to be tactically correct and keep most of his body undercover. He made two shots righthanded, he probably just sucked it up and took the pain. For the most part, Swagger shoots left handed because of a wounded right shoulder. When a tactical situation called for it, he shot right. But in the end, Bob Lee Swagger is right handed. The writers wrote in an injury to make things easier for Mark Walberg (a lefty) to protray. Easier to go with what you know. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

I think you are a bit off there. After he is released and he goes to the nighttime cabin he is still shooting left handed. You would think that a bullet wound would have healed by that time. [[User:bristow8411|bristow8411]]
:Bullet wounds don't just heal overnight. It can take months to recover. -Survivalkid21

== BULLET FLIGHT TIME ==

I'm a gun nut, and it frustrates me that with all the technical assistance and knowledge available to the moviemakers, they still don't get it right. When presented with the details of the required shot at the beginning by Glover, Whalberg replies that it could be a 6 - 10 sec bullet flight time for a shot about 1.5 miles. Well at 6 secs, the bullet would have a muzzle velocity of 1000fps. Later in the film, the shot distance is mentioned at 2000 yds, and using the gun in the film to make this shot, that flight time for the projectile would have been about 2.14secs. How can they miscalculate that easy one!?

:Because then they'd also show the way a round at that range would *actually* hit: straight down to blow the dude to literal pieces.

yea the USMC sniper saying about that is that even true? -scarecrow

:Yes. Bullets follow a parabolic path when fired. That means you'd have to compensate when firing at range (ie, aiming higher than the actual target to account for this) which means that the bullet would eventually come arcing pointing downwards into the top of the target's head. And seeing as how this is a large-caliber round...

== M203 ==

did anyone else notice at the begining, when swagger is covering the troops, that the distance to the target was 870 yards, yet a minute later we see swaggers spotter firing his m203 and hitting a parked car, now i think that the range for a single shot grenade launcher is a bit unrealistic. never the less more tactically sound than most and still a good film.

I was watching shooter on my iPod (again) and noticed a discrepancy with Donnie Fenn's M203: Its trigger guard is TOTALLY SQUARED in the back. I went and watched it on my computer to be sure and I was right, so this means that they used a CM203 39mm Flare Launcher instead of an M203 Grenade Launcher. (GamerfreakB7)

40 MM ERLP rounds have a range of 880 yds (burnrate)

== Sniper Rifle Tripod ==

In the assassination scene the gun used to kill the guy next to the President is on a remote control tripod. Does anyone know what kind of stand this is, and would it still take a highly trained shooter to take this shoot considering the technology being used?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 08:22, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

The Remote control sniper weapom is the Precision Remotes Telepresent Rapid-Aiming Platform (TRAP). It's basically a computer-operated weapon platform that holds a standard rifle. Think Mars Rover holding a CheyTac M200. (GamerfreakB7)

http://precisionremotes.com/ground-mount.php

I wouldn't let ''anyone'' take the shot unless it had been set and calibrated by an experienced shooter. Long range shooting has a lot of variables involved: wind speed and direction (which can vary downrange, and moreso in an urban environment), elevation of the shooter relative to the target, local weather (temperature and humidity), to name but a few. There are ballistics software programs that can take a lot of the guesswork out of the equation, but the more data you have the more accurate the prediction will be. An experienced shooter would be able to factor in a lot of the above variables within a short space of time. Note early in the film before the hit he was checking a lot of this on the location. ''Wraith''

A related question: What was the rifle on the TRAP in the demo video Memphis watched online? An M82 variant already listed or another weapon? There doesn't seem to be a mention on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 10:51, 3 February 2014 (EST)

== uniforms ==

i know this isnt about guns but the uniform that swagger and his spotter wear while covering the contractors looks like army ucp pattern rather than marine marpat wondering if anyone else noticed.
:your right, they were ACUs, not the MARPAT. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

marines contracted to the US army O_o

From some conversations with retired military personnel, snipers often have a lot of leeway in the uniforms they wear in the field. It depends on the military service but some have the option of choosing a pattern that better reflects their environment. In that location Swagger and his spotter thought that ACU made a better base pattern that MARPAT, and their CO allowed them to do this. I have heard of some odd pattern combinations being used, such as US Desert 6-color chock-chip pattern being used with UK DPM jacket, Italian WW2 pattern smocks (also used by the Waffen-SS) with AusCam pants, knock-off US Woodland, surplus German Flektern, and so on. Some extra uniforms on hand are cheaper than losing a trained sniper team that were found because of a camo pattern that didn't quite match the environment. Or, MARPAT was not available to the production crew so they used ACU because it was what they had. ''Wraith''

Unless we can talk to someone in the production of the movie, the uniforms are either a mistake in costuming or an effort to show snipers in the field using what they thought was best for the operation. ''Wraith''
:Of course, in what world besides Army La La Land, UCP is superior to MARPAT, I don't know... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:33, 11 December 2012 (EST)

== Trivia ==

When Swagger and FBI agent Memphis go to Tennessee to the home of Swaggers friend, the expert on shooting and ballistics (played by former drummer for The Band Levon Helm), the wife of Swagger's friend is played by actress Rebecca Toolan, who played the mother of FBI Agent Fox Mulder from seasons 1-7, the character being killed off in 2000, season 7, Mulder's last full season on the show.-[[User:Harleyguy|Harleyguy]]

== Gun in ranch ==

what is the rifle that swagger uses during the ranch is it still the .22 or did he pickup a 2nd remington 700

I believe it's in a deleted scene, but Swagger has Memphis buy two rifles. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 23:01, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

thanks love this site hopefully im learning enough to contribute eventually

I've found it considerably easier to create a .txt file with a basic page template, then using it for any new additions/creations and copying it over to the site. Just remember not to save over the original .txt file, might be a pain in the butt the next time. Also, marking who you are, even if your just an IP right now is always nice for other people. Use this: <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> or the little square second from the right above where you type. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 23:43, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

in the movie shooter the guy with the unidentfied pistol is proberbly a BERETTA M92SB with a shorter barrel. the way you can tell is the trigger guard is rounded instead of crested at the front of trigger guard.

==Unidentified Pistols==

The second one is a Beretta 92FS, the first one tucked into the guys pants looks like some kind of Sig-Sauer.--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:14, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Tactical action ==

When Swagger changes M4A1 magazines during the running gunfight, he pulls back the charge handle when all he should have to do is push the slide release to chamber the next round. I think this is correct.

There can be a number of reasons for this. One is that he want to follow the charging handle down to assure the bolt locks. Just using the slide release could result in a jam and he wouldnt know until he pulled the trigger costing seconds if not more. I for one do the butt stock slap to load the first round of a new magazine...not tactical...just looks cool.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 23:03, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

For all of us not "in the know" what is the deal with this stock slap? [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 06:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Next time you are playin around with a AR-15 and you load a fresh mag in to a open chambered action...give the back of the butt a firm flat handed slap...and see what happens.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:04, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Will do. [[Special:Contributions/166.137.11.187|166.137.11.187]] 02:52, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

If I remember, a casing ejects when he pulls the charging handle. I think he was just clearing a jam. I don't think he even changed the mag, just reinserted the same one. --[[User:Gtcsmc|Gtcsmc]] 17:58, 4 June 2012 (CDT)

Some shooting schools teach you to use the charging handle instead of the slide releases. They say that it is far more reliable. Personally, I don't know if this is true or not. -Survivalkid21

== Swagger's CheyTac ==

The reason Swagger is holding the rifle with his left hand is because he got shot on the right side. He switches to a left-handed shooting stance for every weapon after that.

as stated above multiple times, and sign you posts with four ~ at the end [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:06, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Anyone else notice the tape on the 870? ==

The last image for the 870, where the bad guy is holding it on the girl, the foreend is taped back, as well as the grip is taped to the baddie's hand. Why would they tape the foreend back? For safety or what?

http://www.imfdb.org/images/2/2c/S-Remington-870-3.jpg

Not a clue. Strong duct tape would prevent the forend from moving; if it was forward, you would fire one shot and be stuck. If it was back, the gun would be unable to fire as long as the tape was on. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 23:44, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

In the film the tape is to hold the wire loop(?) which goes around the girl's neck to keep the muzzle pointed at her. In real life maybe a rubber stunt was not available or undesirable due to the closeness of (filming)shot - having the slide locked back would be a good way of preventing firing and allow you to see no round is chambered so they could safely use a live weapon. Or it's a mistake :) . --[[User:Sidewinder Forge|Sidewinder Forge]] 09:17, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

== Swaggers M4 ==

I know this probably a stupid question, but does anyone know what happened to Bobs M4 after he uses it to crack the gas line? It's been on my mind a while and it's bugging me.--[[User:SAMBAMA|SAMBAMA]] 21:06, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

:He left it there to make it appear somebody inside the house was responsible for the shooting. I don't recall who he planted it on because I haven't seen the movie in a while. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:26, 11 December 2012 (EST)
::Actually, Swagger took his M4 with him. He left his 1911 with one of the government agents. -Survivalkid21
:::No, I'm watching the scene of him leaving the house before it blows up right now and he doesn't have the M4 on him. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 23:02, 23 January 2014 (EST)

== Any fans of the books? ==

Just kinda wondering if anyone else on this site has read the Stephen Hunter novels that this movie is (loosely) based on. - [[User: 2wingo]]
:I have "Point of Impact", "Dirty White Boys","Blacklight", and "Hot Springs" in my personal collection. I have read the Swagger series up to "Night of Thunder".[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] ([[User talk:Rockwolf66|talk]]) 01:47, 24 December 2012 (EST)

== Goof? - **SPOILERS** ==

The idea is to frame Swagger by implying that he shot the Bishop with his rifle, which is a CheyTac .408. Yet, when we see the remote platform with the weapon that does the ''actual'' shooting, it says "Barrett M82A1" on the scope's digital screen. Meaning the Bishop was killed with a .50 BMG round, not Swagger's .408.

I thought I would get some opinions on this, and see if any changes/additions should be made to the article. [[User:Thewolfchild|Thewolfchild]] ([[User talk:Thewolfchild|talk]]) 06:43, 26 April 2014 (EDT)

:It's because Swagger's original bullet was reloaded in a sabot which would require the bigger bore. --[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] ([[User talk:Acepeacemaker|talk]])

Talk:Shooter (2007)

2014-04-26T17:50:19Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Goof? - **SPOILERS** */

Talk:Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

2013-08-06T06:54:27Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Similarities to The Last Crusade */

== Thanks ==

Thanks to whoever corrected me on the ID of the revolver. By the way, (just out of curiosity) where is the cylinder release on that Dan Wesson? --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 21:24, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:In front of the cylinder. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:15, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Guns Missing that I can see ==

Pistol - Sniper Tau

Appears to be the same as the Wes-44 from previous games, but with a sniper scope fitted.

:Hell it does.

[[Image:Uncharted3-WesandTau-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Taurus Raging Bull? I guess that's where the "Tau" comes from. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:15, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's a Raging Bull alright. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:54, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Sniper rifle - T-Bolt Sniper

Bolt-action Sniper Rifle, 1 shot kill every time regardless of hit location.
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bolt_Sniper

==Adding Pics==

Also i keep trying to add a image to AKS-74U but i can't because i need more simpler
hints on how to add a image to pages so i need some help on adding images so
i need some guys to tell me how to add an image also displaying a image

== Any idea what the pistol in the top left is? ==

[[Image:Uncharted-Dashboard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full HD shot to make it biggar.]]

And yes, I have the ''Valkyria Chronicles'' theme. I'm a sucker for a game about tanks, ok? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:11, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like Makarov PM or Walther PP or similar pistol. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 3 November 2011 (CDT)
:''Valkyria Chronicles, heh''

Got another shot of it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-Cutterpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's Cutter's gun. Looks a bit like a Makarov, but there's a control above the trigger that neither a Makarov or a PP / PPK have. Also, as a note of interest, Cutter is voiced by Graham McTavish, who was, of all people, ''Lazarevic'' in the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Walther P5 [[File:P5Wood.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 07:21, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Yup, that's the one, thanks. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:27, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:What a cool dashboard. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:26, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== OMG! ==

Just wanted to say: this game is AWESOME! The true definition of action game. Compared to it, CoD games are like a day in retirement home :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:16, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:I so prefer a game like this over COD:MW3, too bad I can't play it, I have every console ''except'' a PS3. D: - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:24, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::I played the game at the video game shop and felt like I should buy PS3 like, right NOW. They call it PS3's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application killer app] :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:::The game looks amazing indeed, and I am stuck with F2P shooters on my shitty PC. I hate console-only games. Excuse me, now I'm going to beat myself to death with my Logitech keyboard. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, it's totally unfair for such games to be console exclusive :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== T-Bolt Sniper Rifle ==
Why isn't the T-Bolt listed on this page it's modeled after the Finnish TKIV-85 rifle. I would add it myself but I can't add pictures from my iPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:44, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I haven't got far enough to get a shot of it yet, I'll add it when I have one. I've already got a TKIV-85 image ready, I'll upload it when I add it. Obviously I can't really write an entry for a weapon I've never used, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:47, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Weapon image, placed here for now:

[[Image:7.62 TKIV 85.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Finnish TKIV-85 rifle - 7.62x53mmR]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:18, 6 November 2011 (CST)

== Suppressed 92FS is not an Inox ==

I didn't use this shot because the video was blurry, but it basically proves it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that even in bright light, the Beretta is the same colour as Nathan's suit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:03, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:417px-Silencer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that the Beretta is not the same color as the Houge grips. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:46, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I think that's just because the finish of the frame is slightly glossy compared to the grips. I'll see what that shot looks like when I get there, but you have to admit that that one shot of it being slight paler grey doesn't really prove it's bright, reflective stainless steel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:17, 6 November 2011 (CST)

The Beretta in the previous games would sometimes look like the first picture due to lighting but they were still Inox's --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:21, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Perhaps, but these are ''usually'' black, even in strong light. They catch the light from time to time is all, they're not silver as far as I can tell from my videos so far. Notes also the silver screws on the grip in your shot are much brighter than the frame and slide are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Having played the game myself, I'll tell you right now the gun clearly is NOT an Inox. --[[User:K|K]] 17:53, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:U3ddberettaInox.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Uncharted3-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta has seemingly been downgraded to the status of paperweight in the sequel.]]

You can see the contrast of slide and frame to grip and holster strap clearly here. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:58, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Equally, you can see the frame and slide are not silver while the screws on the grip are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 6 November 2011 (CST)

There is no way you can say that that the Beretta is black. It's just a tiny bit darker than the screws. Once you get to the level where you are sneaking ono the cargo plane you can see that it's an Inox. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Being very dark grey and being stainless steel are hardly the same thing. If it were an Inox the screws and slide / frame would be the exact same colour (as they are in Uncharted 2), the slide would not be dark grey when the screws are almost white. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:57, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Notice that the coloring of the Beretta of the first picture is the same as the Beretta listed in the page under Beretta 92FS Inox. Also note how the screws in the picture that was originally on the page are brighter than the slide/frame.

:::Actually I can't see that at all. Certainly not to the extent of the contrast on the suppressed pistol. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:16, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because the lighting is different in both pictures, the brighter screws might just be a result of the quality of the video. There is no way you can call the Beretta in the first pic a standard 92FS. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:24, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::But the first pic looks terrible, Nathan and Elena look like waxworks and the frame is torn at the top. I wouldn't regard is as a reliable indication of what that scene actually looks like until I've seen it myself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:29, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::The only thing that is wrong with that pic is that the frame is torn from converting it into a jpg, it's much better quality tha the pic you provided to prove that it was a regular 92FS. How much do you think the scene is going to change, that Nate is actually putting an M134 minigun in his holster. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:35, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Well, that the colours won't look wrong on the two human characters. Regardless, there's no point discussing this further until I get home to get the rest of the weapons screencapped. Also, how on earth do you tear a screenshot with jpeg conversion? Screen tearing is a lack of vsync. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:40, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Oh yeah, I forgot that Drake had blue skin and Elena's was green. And the screen didn't actually "tear" per say, but instead doubled the image and overlapped one but put it lower and I didn't realize it until after I uploaded it. I was forced to save this image via paint, because my crappy computer can only handle that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lose the attitude. It doesn't help. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:49, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::: Sorry man, it's not you I'm mad at, the New England Patriots just Lost and I'm pissed. I didn't mean to take it out on you, sorry. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:55, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Ah, don't worry about it. I'll be home in five hours or so to get the rest of those screenshots and I'll look over the video of the first stealth mission again while I'm at it. Only thing I won't get is supposedly there's a multi-only FAL and I'm not going to hit level 50 on a one week rental. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:11, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Lol, I'm renting it to, but I didn't get online pass so I can't play online, but I did hear that the FAL was a semi automatic. You can get much better views of the Beretta in question during the mission where you have to get on the cargo plane and the cutscene that sets up the mission, has some pretty decent shots of it too, so I hope that helps. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:19, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Still playing and recording, and I think I see what's up with that weapon. It ''is'' black, but the specular mapping for it is metallic, so in the right light it reflects like bare metal (the Dan Wesson PPC does exactly the same). There's a few weapons with weird specular settings; the SPAS looks like the entire heat sheild is chrome plated if you get the right light on it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:14, 7 November 2011 (CST)

== AKS-74U ==
I think the "KAL-7" is actually based on the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U because you can see in game, as well as in the title screen picture listed here that it uses 7.62x39mm AK-47 magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:38, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Also, I think the Arm Micro is based on the MasterPiece Arms MPA930SST as opposed to the model listed as the one in game is side cocking with a rail mounted on top of the receiver much like the MPA330SST. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:41, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I'll fix that when I get home, didn't see the top rail on it when I was checking my videos. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Just as some notes: I now have the ''entire game'' recorded, I'll get caps tomorrow. I think the flare pistol is based on the 3-barrel Type 90 flaregun. I'm not going to include Talbot's tranq gun, the only time you see it at all it's dark, the gun is black on a black suit, and he's already almost put it back in his jacket as the scene cuts to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 7 November 2011 (CST)

==Colt Defender==
The comment about the Defender's Mag capacity was wrong. Colt gives it as 7+1 or 8+1 on their website.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 15:29, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== Similarities to The Last Crusade ==

Spoiler Alert!!!
:
''Indiana Jones'' has obviously had a heavy influence on the Uncharted series, but this one is ridiculous! Where to start? Third in the trilogy. A main theme is Drake's relationship with Sully, the father figure. It starts off showing a young Drake stealing the thing the badguys are after and being chased, starting his adventuring career. Drake is taken captive onto a ship where he fights his way off and jumps into the water as the ship sinks, leaving him in the middle of the ocean. When Drake and Sully are shown around Yemen by Elena it is reminiscent of when Indy and Marcus are shown around Venice by Elsa. Drake makes a rubbing of a clue in the knight's tomb. Drake and Sully have to escape from a burning castle shortly after going through a secret door in the fireplace. Drake stows away on a big transport aircraft only to be forced to bail out. Drake attacks an armored convoy, in the desert, on horseback, with the help of arabs who happen to be sworn to protect the thing everyone's after, and rescue Sully who's being held in one of the vehicles. Sully is shot near the end only to be miraculously fine once magic water comes into play. Of course the ancient ruins collapse as soon as the heroes get done with it. Also, duh, they talk about the actual crusades quite a bit. Greatness from Great beginnings I guess!--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]]

You know, that is very smart thinking..Now you notice it, there is a very much similar to The Last Crusade! --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

:Given Nathan has now accidentally blown up El Dorado, Shambala and Iram of the Pillars (with increasingly less effort each time), I'm guessing in the next one he'll find Atlantis but then a mouse will sneeze and it'll sink. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:39, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::El Dorado didn't blow up, the helicopter wreckage dragged it (it was a giant golden coffin containing a virus of some kind, not a city) to the bottom of the ocean. He also didn't blow Iram up, it sort of just sank into a sinkhole. As far as finding Atlantis and a mouse sneeze causing it to sink... I totally agree. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:31, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

:::According to the Atlantis myth, Atlantis already sunk. That's what caused it to the become the "Lost City of Atlantis." It would be hard to sink something that is already underwater. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:36, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::I'd kinda forgotten what the hell happened in 1, but I know there was a lost city and I'm sure it got splosioned. With Atlantis obviously he's going to raise it (which his <s>printed copy of gamefaqs</s> diary will tell him how to do) and then sink it. Also technically he didn't find Iram of the Many Pillars, he found Iram of the One Big Structurally Unsound Pillar, so maybe he'll find the rest of the pillars. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:41, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Who says the devs have to adhere to the myth? They certainly didn't with El Dorado nor did they with the Cintamani stone. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:25, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::You really couldn't create a game about Atlantis, without acknowledging that it is underwater, that's what it is known for. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:09, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::::::Well obviously, yeah. You get into it through some caves or tunnels or something full of ancient machinery 50% of which works perfectly and the other 50% of which spontaneously falls apart just after a chiseled heroic man moves near it, have all the underwater stuff, raise it up by consulting Drake's all-seeing diary, and then sink it again while blowing it up for good measure. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:14, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

Well, it couldn't be blown up until there was a speedboat convoy that Drake rides up to on a seahorse, and then jumps from speedboat to speedboat as they line up next to the ones that catch fire in order to let Drake jump over to them instead of just leaving him on the one about to blowup, even they are trying to kill him. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:19, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

:And he's being chased by a Hind. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:21, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

::Until he reaches the boat with the convenient can of any Anti-Russian Gunship spray. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:23, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== Salim's revolver ==
In cutscenes Salim has a revolver holstered on his left side that he never uses in the game. What little of the frame I can see of it says Webley to me, but revolvers aren't really my strong point. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:40, 22 February 2013 (EST)

User talk:Acepeacemaker

2013-08-06T06:50:34Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Never heard of it */

Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

2013-06-12T19:20:10Z

Acepeacemaker:

==Unknown SMG==
Anybody know what these are?

[[File:MGS5Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:05, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:Considering all footage shown so far, showing relatively narrow arsenal assets, I'm willing to say pretty surely that it's the same MP9 as in Ground Zeroes. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:24, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

But whats the point of holding them sideways like that especially with the ejection port facing up.--[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 17:40, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:I assume however, it could be held sideways because they are so densely packed together, using it as a method of evading to shower their mates with hot brass. I'm puzzled as to why they are holding them ejection port upwards, but it could be some recoil controlling technique perhaps even a depiction of the C.A.R. technique. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 18:03, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::You are thinking about it too much, I would highly doubt that anyone involved in this decision has even heard of the CAR technique. My guess is that they are doing it because someone thinks it looks cool, particularly if you get to have the cases spraying upwards into the air showing off some nice physics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::I don't know about the guns, but the stuff on the soldiers backs seem to resemble the fuel canisters for the M2 Flamethrower or a similar flamethrower. What I do know is that whatever the make, the backpack is undeniably a flamethrower weapon. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:50, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think they are, more likely they are air tanks as they appear to be wearing breathing apparatus. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:39, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Found another gun image, it's from the last few seconds of the VGA trailer:
:::[[File:Pp12.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:::Don't know if its the same gun or a different gun, but still, hope I helped. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

The The Phantom Pain and Ground Zero is the same game. They've just announced that. So one of these pages has got to go [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:47, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:The last I read (earlier today) "Ground Zeroes" is the prologue to "The Phantom Pain" which taken together make up MGS5, but they would not confirm whether or not they were shipping it as one game or two separate ones. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::Well, I advocated patience and just waiting for official word earlier, I don't know why people are in such a rush. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:22, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Yeah, here's a bit of a problem, though: Konami told GameSpot that they are two separate games. Jay Boor, director of PR, stated they are two separate games, and the official MGS facebook page (which is owned by Konami and Kojima Productions) not only stated they were two different games, they even quoted Kojima's twitter on it. We keep them separate. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 20:46, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::If they truly are separate games, then why does the new trailer contain footage from BOTH teasers and titled it MGS5 The Phantom Pain? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::If I recall correctly, ''Peace Walker'' and ''Portable Ops'' also contained footage from ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' in their debut trailers, so I doubt it would mean much. Even if it did, it's likely that they are somewhat connected, but still separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::I don't ever remember they using footage from MGS3 to advertise that the final product will look like Portable Ops or Peacewalker. The recent trailer did not even state they were two separate games. It didn't say Ground Zeroes once, it only titled itself as MGS5 The Phantom Pain. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:58, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::Portable Ops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NUg0DLMpQ
:::::::Peace Walker TGS2009 Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5trPeM9wI
:::::::Both of these trailers showed footage from ''MGS3'', at least at the beginning of the trailer. And the trailer may not have stated they were two separate games, but Konami and other official sources stated they are. Heck, even Kojima stated that the sequence he showed in TPP was actually the tutorial at the beginning of a game, despite claiming that Ground Zeroes was the prologue. The only way to claim both to be true is if they are indeed separate games. And besides, Kojima also stated that both Rising and Peace Walker were Metal Gear Solid 5 in interviews, even though back then it was clear as day they were separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 23:16, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I am still holding out that it's all misdirection on part of the creator. It seems odd to market 2 games at the same time. Are both going to be released at the same time? in one box? a year apart? There's a lot of questions from a production standpoint [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:22, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::::And going back to the portable games trailers with MGS3 footage. Those were the Japanese trailers and the MGS3 footages serve as a jump off point. If you were to compare advertising like that to these games, it would be like watching a trailer of MGS5 starting off with a couple scenes from MGS4, 2 completely different games but obviously has connections to each other since they exist in the same universe. You can't argue because the portable games did it so it makes sense for the new MGS5 trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:26, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::::It's not odd at all that they'd market two completely different games at the same time. Heck, Lords of Shadows 2 actually marketed both the console game and the portable game at the exact same time in E3 2012, and Epic Mickey 2 also did the same with two games that were completely different. And misdirection or not, I sincerely doubt Kojima'd refer to the opening scene of TPP as being the tutorial to the game AFTER marketing it as the same as Ground Zeroes. You can't have a tutorial level after the main prologue of a game. Did we have that in the Plant Chapter of MGS2? Operation Snake Eater in MGS3? Any of the levels after Liquid Sun in MGS4? Any of the levels after the intro to Peace Walker? There is a way for games to be separate and the same at the exact same time though: Think Sonic 4. Separate releases, same game. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 12:07, 21 April 2013 (EDT)

==Gun wish list==
Here's some guns I hope will come for the game since Kojima confirmed The Phantom Pain will take place around 1984. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:52, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

The first is a Glock and not the Glock 18.
Galil

CZ75

UZI

ASP9

M14

AK74

FAL

Valmet series

Browning HP

VP70

Beretta 93R

SIG SG 540

XL64E5

FAMAS

More M16 variants

Daewoo K1 / K2

Mini-14

SA Vz.58

AR-18

Different AK variants

=New Red band trailer=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gEqmkduIeMU

:Am the only one, but are there quite a lot of hybrid firearms on display here? Take a closer look at those AKs, both the 7.62 and 5.56 versions. AK-74 stand-ins have a ring sight mounted on the back of the receiver, and [http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/14607241/mgs5_phantom_pain.0_cinema_640.0.jpg 7.62 ones have a bizarre wooden front grip, AKS-74U patterned back sights along with a pretty western looking flash hider]. Now those are some jive-ass Kalashnikovs if I ever laid my very one eyes upon one. Is anyone a bit more versed as to why Kojima suddenly went for this bizarre change? --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:26, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

I'll admit it is unusual, but at least they look like they can exist unlike Resident Evil 6 where all guns seemed like frankenguns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:58, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

=Getting the feeling of anachronism =
I wonder, with the recent trailer, a lot of the tech and gear are a bit anachronistic for the 80s like Skull face's men. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:19, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:Dudes got a robot arm, I don't think historical accuracy is a big deal.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 20:49, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
::That's a BS argument. If that's the excuse, why not all guns be fictional and they start using halo plasma rifles and phasers? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

= Single Action Army =

Not much to go off but Ocelot's gun does not look like an SAA at all. It looks like some kind of top breaker. Do you think the guns in this one are going to be generic instead of actual models like they've been before?--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] ([[User talk:Acepeacemaker|talk]])

Talk:Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

2013-06-12T19:19:16Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Single Action Army */ new section

==Unknown SMG==
Anybody know what these are?

[[File:MGS5Unknown.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 16:05, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:Considering all footage shown so far, showing relatively narrow arsenal assets, I'm willing to say pretty surely that it's the same MP9 as in Ground Zeroes. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:24, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

But whats the point of holding them sideways like that especially with the ejection port facing up.--[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 17:40, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

:I assume however, it could be held sideways because they are so densely packed together, using it as a method of evading to shower their mates with hot brass. I'm puzzled as to why they are holding them ejection port upwards, but it could be some recoil controlling technique perhaps even a depiction of the C.A.R. technique. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 18:03, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::You are thinking about it too much, I would highly doubt that anyone involved in this decision has even heard of the CAR technique. My guess is that they are doing it because someone thinks it looks cool, particularly if you get to have the cases spraying upwards into the air showing off some nice physics. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::I don't know about the guns, but the stuff on the soldiers backs seem to resemble the fuel canisters for the M2 Flamethrower or a similar flamethrower. What I do know is that whatever the make, the backpack is undeniably a flamethrower weapon. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:50, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::I don't think they are, more likely they are air tanks as they appear to be wearing breathing apparatus. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:39, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Found another gun image, it's from the last few seconds of the VGA trailer:
:::[[File:Pp12.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
:::Don't know if its the same gun or a different gun, but still, hope I helped. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

The The Phantom Pain and Ground Zero is the same game. They've just announced that. So one of these pages has got to go [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:47, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:The last I read (earlier today) "Ground Zeroes" is the prologue to "The Phantom Pain" which taken together make up MGS5, but they would not confirm whether or not they were shipping it as one game or two separate ones. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::Well, I advocated patience and just waiting for official word earlier, I don't know why people are in such a rush. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:22, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Yeah, here's a bit of a problem, though: Konami told GameSpot that they are two separate games. Jay Boor, director of PR, stated they are two separate games, and the official MGS facebook page (which is owned by Konami and Kojima Productions) not only stated they were two different games, they even quoted Kojima's twitter on it. We keep them separate. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 20:46, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::If they truly are separate games, then why does the new trailer contain footage from BOTH teasers and titled it MGS5 The Phantom Pain? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::If I recall correctly, ''Peace Walker'' and ''Portable Ops'' also contained footage from ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' in their debut trailers, so I doubt it would mean much. Even if it did, it's likely that they are somewhat connected, but still separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 21:59, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::I don't ever remember they using footage from MGS3 to advertise that the final product will look like Portable Ops or Peacewalker. The recent trailer did not even state they were two separate games. It didn't say Ground Zeroes once, it only titled itself as MGS5 The Phantom Pain. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:58, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::Portable Ops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NUg0DLMpQ
:::::::Peace Walker TGS2009 Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5trPeM9wI
:::::::Both of these trailers showed footage from ''MGS3'', at least at the beginning of the trailer. And the trailer may not have stated they were two separate games, but Konami and other official sources stated they are. Heck, even Kojima stated that the sequence he showed in TPP was actually the tutorial at the beginning of a game, despite claiming that Ground Zeroes was the prologue. The only way to claim both to be true is if they are indeed separate games. And besides, Kojima also stated that both Rising and Peace Walker were Metal Gear Solid 5 in interviews, even though back then it was clear as day they were separate games. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 23:16, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I am still holding out that it's all misdirection on part of the creator. It seems odd to market 2 games at the same time. Are both going to be released at the same time? in one box? a year apart? There's a lot of questions from a production standpoint [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:22, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::::::::And going back to the portable games trailers with MGS3 footage. Those were the Japanese trailers and the MGS3 footages serve as a jump off point. If you were to compare advertising like that to these games, it would be like watching a trailer of MGS5 starting off with a couple scenes from MGS4, 2 completely different games but obviously has connections to each other since they exist in the same universe. You can't argue because the portable games did it so it makes sense for the new MGS5 trailer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:26, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::::::It's not odd at all that they'd market two completely different games at the same time. Heck, Lords of Shadows 2 actually marketed both the console game and the portable game at the exact same time in E3 2012, and Epic Mickey 2 also did the same with two games that were completely different. And misdirection or not, I sincerely doubt Kojima'd refer to the opening scene of TPP as being the tutorial to the game AFTER marketing it as the same as Ground Zeroes. You can't have a tutorial level after the main prologue of a game. Did we have that in the Plant Chapter of MGS2? Operation Snake Eater in MGS3? Any of the levels after Liquid Sun in MGS4? Any of the levels after the intro to Peace Walker? There is a way for games to be separate and the same at the exact same time though: Think Sonic 4. Separate releases, same game. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 12:07, 21 April 2013 (EDT)

==Gun wish list==
Here's some guns I hope will come for the game since Kojima confirmed The Phantom Pain will take place around 1984. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:52, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

The first is a Glock and not the Glock 18.
Galil

CZ75

UZI

ASP9

M14

AK74

FAL

Valmet series

Browning HP

VP70

Beretta 93R

SIG SG 540

XL64E5

FAMAS

More M16 variants

Daewoo K1 / K2

Mini-14

SA Vz.58

AR-18

Different AK variants

=New Red band trailer=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gEqmkduIeMU

:Am the only one, but are there quite a lot of hybrid firearms on display here? Take a closer look at those AKs, both the 7.62 and 5.56 versions. AK-74 stand-ins have a ring sight mounted on the back of the receiver, and [http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/14607241/mgs5_phantom_pain.0_cinema_640.0.jpg 7.62 ones have a bizarre wooden front grip, AKS-74U patterned back sights along with a pretty western looking flash hider]. Now those are some jive-ass Kalashnikovs if I ever laid my very one eyes upon one. Is anyone a bit more versed as to why Kojima suddenly went for this bizarre change? --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:26, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

I'll admit it is unusual, but at least they look like they can exist unlike Resident Evil 6 where all guns seemed like frankenguns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:58, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

=Getting the feeling of anachronism =
I wonder, with the recent trailer, a lot of the tech and gear are a bit anachronistic for the 80s like Skull face's men. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:19, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
:Dudes got a robot arm, I don't think historical accuracy is a big deal.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 20:49, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
::That's a BS argument. If that's the excuse, why not all guns be fictional and they start using halo plasma rifles and phasers? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

== Single Action Army ==

Not much to go off but Ocelot's gun does not look like an SAA at all. It looks like some kind of top breaker. Do you think the guns in this one are going to be generic instead of actual models like they've been before?--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] ([[User talk:Acepeacemaker|talk]])

Talk:Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

2012-07-31T17:27:28Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Similarities to The Last Crusade */

== Thanks ==

Thanks to whoever corrected me on the ID of the revolver. By the way, (just out of curiosity) where is the cylinder release on that Dan Wesson? --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 21:24, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:In front of the cylinder. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:15, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Guns Missing that I can see ==

Pistol - Sniper Tau

Appears to be the same as the Wes-44 from previous games, but with a sniper scope fitted.

:Hell it does.

[[Image:Uncharted3-WesandTau-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Taurus Raging Bull? I guess that's where the "Tau" comes from. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:15, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's a Raging Bull alright. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:54, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Sniper rifle - T-Bolt Sniper

Bolt-action Sniper Rifle, 1 shot kill every time regardless of hit location.
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bolt_Sniper

==Adding Pics==

Also i keep trying to add a image to AKS-74U but i can't because i need more simpler
hints on how to add a image to pages so i need some help on adding images so
i need some guys to tell me how to add an image also displaying a image

== Any idea what the pistol in the top left is? ==

[[Image:Uncharted-Dashboard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full HD shot to make it biggar.]]

And yes, I have the ''Valkyria Chronicles'' theme. I'm a sucker for a game about tanks, ok? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:11, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like Makarov PM or Walther PP or similar pistol. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 3 November 2011 (CDT)
:''Valkyria Chronicles, heh''

Got another shot of it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-Cutterpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's Cutter's gun. Looks a bit like a Makarov, but there's a control above the trigger that neither a Makarov or a PP / PPK have. Also, as a note of interest, Cutter is voiced by Graham McTavish, who was, of all people, ''Lazarevic'' in the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Walther P5 [[File:P5Wood.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 07:21, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Yup, that's the one, thanks. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:27, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:What a cool dashboard. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:26, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== OMG! ==

Just wanted to say: this game is AWESOME! The true definition of action game. Compared to it, CoD games are like a day in retirement home :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:16, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:I so prefer a game like this over COD:MW3, too bad I can't play it, I have every console ''except'' a PS3. D: - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:24, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::I played the game at the video game shop and felt like I should buy PS3 like, right NOW. They call it PS3's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application killer app] :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:::The game looks amazing indeed, and I am stuck with F2P shooters on my shitty PC. I hate console-only games. Excuse me, now I'm going to beat myself to death with my Logitech keyboard. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, it's totally unfair for such games to be console exclusive :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== T-Bolt Sniper Rifle ==
Why isn't the T-Bolt listed on this page it's modeled after the Finnish TKIV-85 rifle. I would add it myself but I can't add pictures from my iPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:44, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I haven't got far enough to get a shot of it yet, I'll add it when I have one. I've already got a TKIV-85 image ready, I'll upload it when I add it. Obviously I can't really write an entry for a weapon I've never used, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:47, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Weapon image, placed here for now:

[[Image:7.62 TKIV 85.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Finnish TKIV-85 rifle - 7.62x53mmR]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:18, 6 November 2011 (CST)

== Suppressed 92FS is not an Inox ==

I didn't use this shot because the video was blurry, but it basically proves it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that even in bright light, the Beretta is the same colour as Nathan's suit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:03, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:417px-Silencer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that the Beretta is not the same color as the Houge grips. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:46, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I think that's just because the finish of the frame is slightly glossy compared to the grips. I'll see what that shot looks like when I get there, but you have to admit that that one shot of it being slight paler grey doesn't really prove it's bright, reflective stainless steel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:17, 6 November 2011 (CST)

The Beretta in the previous games would sometimes look like the first picture due to lighting but they were still Inox's --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:21, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Perhaps, but these are ''usually'' black, even in strong light. They catch the light from time to time is all, they're not silver as far as I can tell from my videos so far. Notes also the silver screws on the grip in your shot are much brighter than the frame and slide are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Having played the game myself, I'll tell you right now the gun clearly is NOT an Inox. --[[User:K|K]] 17:53, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:U3ddberettaInox.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Uncharted3-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta has seemingly been downgraded to the status of paperweight in the sequel.]]

You can see the contrast of slide and frame to grip and holster strap clearly here. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:58, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Equally, you can see the frame and slide are not silver while the screws on the grip are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 6 November 2011 (CST)

There is no way you can say that that the Beretta is black. It's just a tiny bit darker than the screws. Once you get to the level where you are sneaking ono the cargo plane you can see that it's an Inox. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Being very dark grey and being stainless steel are hardly the same thing. If it were an Inox the screws and slide / frame would be the exact same colour (as they are in Uncharted 2), the slide would not be dark grey when the screws are almost white. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:57, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Notice that the coloring of the Beretta of the first picture is the same as the Beretta listed in the page under Beretta 92FS Inox. Also note how the screws in the picture that was originally on the page are brighter than the slide/frame.

:::Actually I can't see that at all. Certainly not to the extent of the contrast on the suppressed pistol. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:16, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because the lighting is different in both pictures, the brighter screws might just be a result of the quality of the video. There is no way you can call the Beretta in the first pic a standard 92FS. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:24, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::But the first pic looks terrible, Nathan and Elena look like waxworks and the frame is torn at the top. I wouldn't regard is as a reliable indication of what that scene actually looks like until I've seen it myself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:29, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::The only thing that is wrong with that pic is that the frame is torn from converting it into a jpg, it's much better quality tha the pic you provided to prove that it was a regular 92FS. How much do you think the scene is going to change, that Nate is actually putting an M134 minigun in his holster. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:35, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Well, that the colours won't look wrong on the two human characters. Regardless, there's no point discussing this further until I get home to get the rest of the weapons screencapped. Also, how on earth do you tear a screenshot with jpeg conversion? Screen tearing is a lack of vsync. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:40, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Oh yeah, I forgot that Drake had blue skin and Elena's was green. And the screen didn't actually "tear" per say, but instead doubled the image and overlapped one but put it lower and I didn't realize it until after I uploaded it. I was forced to save this image via paint, because my crappy computer can only handle that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lose the attitude. It doesn't help. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:49, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::: Sorry man, it's not you I'm mad at, the New England Patriots just Lost and I'm pissed. I didn't mean to take it out on you, sorry. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:55, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Ah, don't worry about it. I'll be home in five hours or so to get the rest of those screenshots and I'll look over the video of the first stealth mission again while I'm at it. Only thing I won't get is supposedly there's a multi-only FAL and I'm not going to hit level 50 on a one week rental. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:11, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Lol, I'm renting it to, but I didn't get online pass so I can't play online, but I did hear that the FAL was a semi automatic. You can get much better views of the Beretta in question during the mission where you have to get on the cargo plane and the cutscene that sets up the mission, has some pretty decent shots of it too, so I hope that helps. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:19, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Still playing and recording, and I think I see what's up with that weapon. It ''is'' black, but the specular mapping for it is metallic, so in the right light it reflects like bare metal (the Dan Wesson PPC does exactly the same). There's a few weapons with weird specular settings; the SPAS looks like the entire heat sheild is chrome plated if you get the right light on it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:14, 7 November 2011 (CST)

== AKS-74U ==
I think the "KAL-7" is actually based on the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U because you can see in game, as well as in the title screen picture listed here that it uses 7.62x39mm AK-47 magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:38, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Also, I think the Arm Micro is based on the MasterPiece Arms MPA930SST as opposed to the model listed as the one in game is side cocking with a rail mounted on top of the receiver much like the MPA330SST. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:41, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I'll fix that when I get home, didn't see the top rail on it when I was checking my videos. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Just as some notes: I now have the ''entire game'' recorded, I'll get caps tomorrow. I think the flare pistol is based on the 3-barrel Type 90 flaregun. I'm not going to include Talbot's tranq gun, the only time you see it at all it's dark, the gun is black on a black suit, and he's already almost put it back in his jacket as the scene cuts to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 7 November 2011 (CST)

==Colt Defender==
The comment about the Defender's Mag capacity was wrong. Colt gives it as 7+1 or 8+1 on their website.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 15:29, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== Similarities to The Last Crusade ==

Spoiler Alert!!!
:
''Indiana Jones'' has obviously had a heavy influence on the Uncharted series, but this one is ridiculous! Where to start? Third in the trilogy. A main theme is Drake's relationship with Sully, the father figure. It starts off showing a young Drake stealing the thing the badguys are after and being chased, starting his adventuring career. Drake is taken captive onto a ship where he fights his way off and jumps into the water as the ship sinks, leaving him in the middle of the ocean. When Drake and Sully are shown around Yemen by Elena it reminds me of when Indy and Marcus are shown around Venice by Elsa. Drake makes a rubbing of a clue in the knight's tomb. Drake and Sully have to escape from a burning castle. Drake stows away on a big transport aircraft only to be forced to bail out. Drake attacks an armored convoy, in the desert, on horseback, with the help of arabs who happen to be sworn to protect the thing everyone's after, and rescue Sully who's being held in one of the vehicles. Sully is shot near the end only to be miraculously fine once magic water comes into play. Of course the ancient ruins collapse as soon as the heroes get done with it. Also, duh, they talk about the actual crusades quite a bit. It just goes to show you, there's nothing really ''new''. Everything is influenced by something before it. Greatness from Great beginnings I guess!--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]]

You know, that is very smart thinking..Now you notice it, there is a very much similar to The Last Crusade! --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

Talk:Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

2012-07-31T00:44:32Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Similarities to Last Crusade */

== Thanks ==

Thanks to whoever corrected me on the ID of the revolver. By the way, (just out of curiosity) where is the cylinder release on that Dan Wesson? --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 21:24, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:In front of the cylinder. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:15, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Guns Missing that I can see ==

Pistol - Sniper Tau

Appears to be the same as the Wes-44 from previous games, but with a sniper scope fitted.

:Hell it does.

[[Image:Uncharted3-WesandTau-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Taurus Raging Bull? I guess that's where the "Tau" comes from. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:15, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's a Raging Bull alright. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:54, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Sniper rifle - T-Bolt Sniper

Bolt-action Sniper Rifle, 1 shot kill every time regardless of hit location.
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bolt_Sniper

==Adding Pics==

Also i keep trying to add a image to AKS-74U but i can't because i need more simpler
hints on how to add a image to pages so i need some help on adding images so
i need some guys to tell me how to add an image also displaying a image

== Any idea what the pistol in the top left is? ==

[[Image:Uncharted-Dashboard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full HD shot to make it biggar.]]

And yes, I have the ''Valkyria Chronicles'' theme. I'm a sucker for a game about tanks, ok? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:11, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like Makarov PM or Walther PP or similar pistol. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 3 November 2011 (CDT)
:''Valkyria Chronicles, heh''

Got another shot of it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-Cutterpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's Cutter's gun. Looks a bit like a Makarov, but there's a control above the trigger that neither a Makarov or a PP / PPK have. Also, as a note of interest, Cutter is voiced by Graham McTavish, who was, of all people, ''Lazarevic'' in the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Walther P5 [[File:P5Wood.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 07:21, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Yup, that's the one, thanks. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:27, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:What a cool dashboard. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:26, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== OMG! ==

Just wanted to say: this game is AWESOME! The true definition of action game. Compared to it, CoD games are like a day in retirement home :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:16, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:I so prefer a game like this over COD:MW3, too bad I can't play it, I have every console ''except'' a PS3. D: - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:24, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::I played the game at the video game shop and felt like I should buy PS3 like, right NOW. They call it PS3's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application killer app] :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:::The game looks amazing indeed, and I am stuck with F2P shooters on my shitty PC. I hate console-only games. Excuse me, now I'm going to beat myself to death with my Logitech keyboard. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, it's totally unfair for such games to be console exclusive :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== T-Bolt Sniper Rifle ==
Why isn't the T-Bolt listed on this page it's modeled after the Finnish TKIV-85 rifle. I would add it myself but I can't add pictures from my iPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:44, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I haven't got far enough to get a shot of it yet, I'll add it when I have one. I've already got a TKIV-85 image ready, I'll upload it when I add it. Obviously I can't really write an entry for a weapon I've never used, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:47, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Weapon image, placed here for now:

[[Image:7.62 TKIV 85.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Finnish TKIV-85 rifle - 7.62x53mmR]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:18, 6 November 2011 (CST)

== Suppressed 92FS is not an Inox ==

I didn't use this shot because the video was blurry, but it basically proves it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that even in bright light, the Beretta is the same colour as Nathan's suit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:03, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:417px-Silencer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that the Beretta is not the same color as the Houge grips. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:46, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I think that's just because the finish of the frame is slightly glossy compared to the grips. I'll see what that shot looks like when I get there, but you have to admit that that one shot of it being slight paler grey doesn't really prove it's bright, reflective stainless steel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:17, 6 November 2011 (CST)

The Beretta in the previous games would sometimes look like the first picture due to lighting but they were still Inox's --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:21, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Perhaps, but these are ''usually'' black, even in strong light. They catch the light from time to time is all, they're not silver as far as I can tell from my videos so far. Notes also the silver screws on the grip in your shot are much brighter than the frame and slide are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Having played the game myself, I'll tell you right now the gun clearly is NOT an Inox. --[[User:K|K]] 17:53, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:U3ddberettaInox.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Uncharted3-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta has seemingly been downgraded to the status of paperweight in the sequel.]]

You can see the contrast of slide and frame to grip and holster strap clearly here. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:58, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Equally, you can see the frame and slide are not silver while the screws on the grip are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 6 November 2011 (CST)

There is no way you can say that that the Beretta is black. It's just a tiny bit darker than the screws. Once you get to the level where you are sneaking ono the cargo plane you can see that it's an Inox. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Being very dark grey and being stainless steel are hardly the same thing. If it were an Inox the screws and slide / frame would be the exact same colour (as they are in Uncharted 2), the slide would not be dark grey when the screws are almost white. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:57, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Notice that the coloring of the Beretta of the first picture is the same as the Beretta listed in the page under Beretta 92FS Inox. Also note how the screws in the picture that was originally on the page are brighter than the slide/frame.

:::Actually I can't see that at all. Certainly not to the extent of the contrast on the suppressed pistol. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:16, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because the lighting is different in both pictures, the brighter screws might just be a result of the quality of the video. There is no way you can call the Beretta in the first pic a standard 92FS. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:24, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::But the first pic looks terrible, Nathan and Elena look like waxworks and the frame is torn at the top. I wouldn't regard is as a reliable indication of what that scene actually looks like until I've seen it myself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:29, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::The only thing that is wrong with that pic is that the frame is torn from converting it into a jpg, it's much better quality tha the pic you provided to prove that it was a regular 92FS. How much do you think the scene is going to change, that Nate is actually putting an M134 minigun in his holster. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:35, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Well, that the colours won't look wrong on the two human characters. Regardless, there's no point discussing this further until I get home to get the rest of the weapons screencapped. Also, how on earth do you tear a screenshot with jpeg conversion? Screen tearing is a lack of vsync. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:40, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Oh yeah, I forgot that Drake had blue skin and Elena's was green. And the screen didn't actually "tear" per say, but instead doubled the image and overlapped one but put it lower and I didn't realize it until after I uploaded it. I was forced to save this image via paint, because my crappy computer can only handle that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lose the attitude. It doesn't help. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:49, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::: Sorry man, it's not you I'm mad at, the New England Patriots just Lost and I'm pissed. I didn't mean to take it out on you, sorry. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:55, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Ah, don't worry about it. I'll be home in five hours or so to get the rest of those screenshots and I'll look over the video of the first stealth mission again while I'm at it. Only thing I won't get is supposedly there's a multi-only FAL and I'm not going to hit level 50 on a one week rental. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:11, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Lol, I'm renting it to, but I didn't get online pass so I can't play online, but I did hear that the FAL was a semi automatic. You can get much better views of the Beretta in question during the mission where you have to get on the cargo plane and the cutscene that sets up the mission, has some pretty decent shots of it too, so I hope that helps. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:19, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Still playing and recording, and I think I see what's up with that weapon. It ''is'' black, but the specular mapping for it is metallic, so in the right light it reflects like bare metal (the Dan Wesson PPC does exactly the same). There's a few weapons with weird specular settings; the SPAS looks like the entire heat sheild is chrome plated if you get the right light on it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:14, 7 November 2011 (CST)

== AKS-74U ==
I think the "KAL-7" is actually based on the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U because you can see in game, as well as in the title screen picture listed here that it uses 7.62x39mm AK-47 magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:38, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Also, I think the Arm Micro is based on the MasterPiece Arms MPA930SST as opposed to the model listed as the one in game is side cocking with a rail mounted on top of the receiver much like the MPA330SST. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:41, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I'll fix that when I get home, didn't see the top rail on it when I was checking my videos. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Just as some notes: I now have the ''entire game'' recorded, I'll get caps tomorrow. I think the flare pistol is based on the 3-barrel Type 90 flaregun. I'm not going to include Talbot's tranq gun, the only time you see it at all it's dark, the gun is black on a black suit, and he's already almost put it back in his jacket as the scene cuts to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 7 November 2011 (CST)

==Colt Defender==
The comment about the Defender's Mag capacity was wrong. Colt gives it as 7+1 or 8+1 on their website.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 15:29, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== Similarities to The Last Crusade ==

Spoiler Alert!!!
:
''Indiana Jones'' has obviously had a heavy influence on the Uncharted series, but this one is ridiculous:) Where to start? Third in the trilogy. A main theme is Drake's relationship with Sully, the father figure. It starts off showing a young Drake stealing the thing the badguys are after and being chased, starting his adventuring career. Drake is taken captive onto a ship where he fights his way off and jumps into the water as the ship sinks, leaving him in the middle of the ocean. Drake makes a rubbing of a clue in the knight's tomb. Drake and Sully have to escape from a burning castle. Drake stows away on a big transport aircraft only to be forced to bail out. Drake attacks an armored convoy, in the desert, on horseback, with the help of arabs who happen to be sworn to protect the thing everyone's after, and rescue Sully who's being held in one of the vehicles. Sully is shot near the end only to be miraculously fine once magic water comes into play. Of course the ancient ruins collapse as soon as the heroes get done with it. Also, duh, they talk about the actual crusades quite a bit. It just goes to show you, there's nothing really ''new''. Everything is influenced by something before it. Greatness from Great beginnings I guess! ~ACE

You know, that is very smart thinking..Now you notice it, there is a very much similar to The Last Crusade! --[[User:Walther_arms|walther_arms]]

Talk:Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

2012-05-24T19:13:17Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Similarities to Last Crusade */ new section

== Thanks ==

Thanks to whoever corrected me on the ID of the revolver. By the way, (just out of curiosity) where is the cylinder release on that Dan Wesson? --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 21:24, 8 July 2011 (CDT)
:In front of the cylinder. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:15, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== Guns Missing that I can see ==

Pistol - Sniper Tau

Appears to be the same as the Wes-44 from previous games, but with a sniper scope fitted.

:Hell it does.

[[Image:Uncharted3-WesandTau-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Taurus Raging Bull? I guess that's where the "Tau" comes from. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:15, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, it's a Raging Bull alright. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:54, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Sniper rifle - T-Bolt Sniper

Bolt-action Sniper Rifle, 1 shot kill every time regardless of hit location.
http://uncharted.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bolt_Sniper

==Adding Pics==

Also i keep trying to add a image to AKS-74U but i can't because i need more simpler
hints on how to add a image to pages so i need some help on adding images so
i need some guys to tell me how to add an image also displaying a image

== Any idea what the pistol in the top left is? ==

[[Image:Uncharted-Dashboard.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Full HD shot to make it biggar.]]

And yes, I have the ''Valkyria Chronicles'' theme. I'm a sucker for a game about tanks, ok? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:11, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:Looks like Makarov PM or Walther PP or similar pistol. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 3 November 2011 (CDT)
:''Valkyria Chronicles, heh''

Got another shot of it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-Cutterpistol-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's Cutter's gun. Looks a bit like a Makarov, but there's a control above the trigger that neither a Makarov or a PP / PPK have. Also, as a note of interest, Cutter is voiced by Graham McTavish, who was, of all people, ''Lazarevic'' in the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Walther P5 [[File:P5Wood.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 07:21, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

Yup, that's the one, thanks. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:27, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:What a cool dashboard. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:26, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== OMG! ==

Just wanted to say: this game is AWESOME! The true definition of action game. Compared to it, CoD games are like a day in retirement home :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:16, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:I so prefer a game like this over COD:MW3, too bad I can't play it, I have every console ''except'' a PS3. D: - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 08:24, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::I played the game at the video game shop and felt like I should buy PS3 like, right NOW. They call it PS3's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application killer app] :O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:08, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

:::The game looks amazing indeed, and I am stuck with F2P shooters on my shitty PC. I hate console-only games. Excuse me, now I'm going to beat myself to death with my Logitech keyboard. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:42, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

::::Yeah, it's totally unfair for such games to be console exclusive :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== T-Bolt Sniper Rifle ==
Why isn't the T-Bolt listed on this page it's modeled after the Finnish TKIV-85 rifle. I would add it myself but I can't add pictures from my iPad. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:44, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I haven't got far enough to get a shot of it yet, I'll add it when I have one. I've already got a TKIV-85 image ready, I'll upload it when I add it. Obviously I can't really write an entry for a weapon I've never used, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:47, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Weapon image, placed here for now:

[[Image:7.62 TKIV 85.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Finnish TKIV-85 rifle - 7.62x53mmR]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:18, 6 November 2011 (CST)

== Suppressed 92FS is not an Inox ==

I didn't use this shot because the video was blurry, but it basically proves it:

[[Image:Uncharted3-92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that even in bright light, the Beretta is the same colour as Nathan's suit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:03, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:417px-Silencer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Note that the Beretta is not the same color as the Houge grips. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:46, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I think that's just because the finish of the frame is slightly glossy compared to the grips. I'll see what that shot looks like when I get there, but you have to admit that that one shot of it being slight paler grey doesn't really prove it's bright, reflective stainless steel. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:17, 6 November 2011 (CST)

The Beretta in the previous games would sometimes look like the first picture due to lighting but they were still Inox's --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:21, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Perhaps, but these are ''usually'' black, even in strong light. They catch the light from time to time is all, they're not silver as far as I can tell from my videos so far. Notes also the silver screws on the grip in your shot are much brighter than the frame and slide are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Having played the game myself, I'll tell you right now the gun clearly is NOT an Inox. --[[User:K|K]] 17:53, 6 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:U3ddberettaInox.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Uncharted3-Beretta-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Beretta has seemingly been downgraded to the status of paperweight in the sequel.]]

You can see the contrast of slide and frame to grip and holster strap clearly here. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:58, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Equally, you can see the frame and slide are not silver while the screws on the grip are. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 6 November 2011 (CST)

There is no way you can say that that the Beretta is black. It's just a tiny bit darker than the screws. Once you get to the level where you are sneaking ono the cargo plane you can see that it's an Inox. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Being very dark grey and being stainless steel are hardly the same thing. If it were an Inox the screws and slide / frame would be the exact same colour (as they are in Uncharted 2), the slide would not be dark grey when the screws are almost white. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:57, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Notice that the coloring of the Beretta of the first picture is the same as the Beretta listed in the page under Beretta 92FS Inox. Also note how the screws in the picture that was originally on the page are brighter than the slide/frame.

:::Actually I can't see that at all. Certainly not to the extent of the contrast on the suppressed pistol. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:16, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because the lighting is different in both pictures, the brighter screws might just be a result of the quality of the video. There is no way you can call the Beretta in the first pic a standard 92FS. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:24, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::But the first pic looks terrible, Nathan and Elena look like waxworks and the frame is torn at the top. I wouldn't regard is as a reliable indication of what that scene actually looks like until I've seen it myself. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:29, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::The only thing that is wrong with that pic is that the frame is torn from converting it into a jpg, it's much better quality tha the pic you provided to prove that it was a regular 92FS. How much do you think the scene is going to change, that Nate is actually putting an M134 minigun in his holster. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:35, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Well, that the colours won't look wrong on the two human characters. Regardless, there's no point discussing this further until I get home to get the rest of the weapons screencapped. Also, how on earth do you tear a screenshot with jpeg conversion? Screen tearing is a lack of vsync. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:40, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::Oh yeah, I forgot that Drake had blue skin and Elena's was green. And the screen didn't actually "tear" per say, but instead doubled the image and overlapped one but put it lower and I didn't realize it until after I uploaded it. I was forced to save this image via paint, because my crappy computer can only handle that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:48, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lose the attitude. It doesn't help. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:49, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::: Sorry man, it's not you I'm mad at, the New England Patriots just Lost and I'm pissed. I didn't mean to take it out on you, sorry. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:55, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Ah, don't worry about it. I'll be home in five hours or so to get the rest of those screenshots and I'll look over the video of the first stealth mission again while I'm at it. Only thing I won't get is supposedly there's a multi-only FAL and I'm not going to hit level 50 on a one week rental. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:11, 6 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Lol, I'm renting it to, but I didn't get online pass so I can't play online, but I did hear that the FAL was a semi automatic. You can get much better views of the Beretta in question during the mission where you have to get on the cargo plane and the cutscene that sets up the mission, has some pretty decent shots of it too, so I hope that helps. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 20:19, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:Still playing and recording, and I think I see what's up with that weapon. It ''is'' black, but the specular mapping for it is metallic, so in the right light it reflects like bare metal (the Dan Wesson PPC does exactly the same). There's a few weapons with weird specular settings; the SPAS looks like the entire heat sheild is chrome plated if you get the right light on it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:14, 7 November 2011 (CST)

== AKS-74U ==
I think the "KAL-7" is actually based on the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U because you can see in game, as well as in the title screen picture listed here that it uses 7.62x39mm AK-47 magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:38, 6 November 2011 (CST)

Also, I think the Arm Micro is based on the MasterPiece Arms MPA930SST as opposed to the model listed as the one in game is side cocking with a rail mounted on top of the receiver much like the MPA330SST. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:41, 6 November 2011 (CST)

:I'll fix that when I get home, didn't see the top rail on it when I was checking my videos. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Just as some notes: I now have the ''entire game'' recorded, I'll get caps tomorrow. I think the flare pistol is based on the 3-barrel Type 90 flaregun. I'm not going to include Talbot's tranq gun, the only time you see it at all it's dark, the gun is black on a black suit, and he's already almost put it back in his jacket as the scene cuts to him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 7 November 2011 (CST)

==Colt Defender==
The comment about the Defender's Mag capacity was wrong. Colt gives it as 7+1 or 8+1 on their website.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 15:29, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== Similarities to Last Crusade ==

Spoiler Alert!!!
:
''Indiana Jones'' has obviously had a heavy influence on the Uncharted series, but this one is ridiculous:) Where to start? Third in the trilogy. A main theme is Drake's relationship with Sully, the father figure. It starts off showing a young Drake stealing the thing the badguys are after and being chased, starting his adventuring career. Drake is taken captive onto a ship where he fights his way off and jumps into the water as the ship sinks, leaving him in the middle of the ocean. Drake and Sully have to escape from a burning castle. Drake stows away on a big transport aircraft only to be forced to bail out. Drake attacks an armored convoy, in the desert, on horseback, with the help of arabs who happen to be sworn to protect the thing everyone's after, and rescue Sully who's being held in one of the vehicles. Sully is shot near the end only to be miraculously fine once magic water comes into play. Of course the ancient ruins collapse as soon as the heroes get done with it. Also, duh, they talk about the actual crusades quite a bit. It just goes to show you, there's nothing really ''new''. Everything is influenced by something before it. Greatness from Great beginnings I guess! ~ACE

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-05-02T19:42:59Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Future Warfare */

'''MAIN PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Only ''officially released'' images will be permitted. Leaked images, even if publicised elsewhere, are not permitted. This rule is not negotiable.'''

'''TALK PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Do not post lists of weapons you hope to see in the game. They will be deleted.'''

== The Newest Joke? ==
Why put up a IMFDB page of this game when it looks clearly like a waste of money

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks to just be like a space gun... It "resembles" a XM8 and an ACR, but looks like the SCAR from Crysis. It's just a future weapon. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:40, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

To be more specific,it appears to be the Malaysian variant of the XM8,the Malaysian variant has no built in scope like on the ones designed for the U.S Army,but a rail instead.however it has extra features of weapons such as the ACR, which Treyarch probably to give their own artistic touch to make it look unique and futuristic.[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Call Of Recon: Ghost Ops --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Well, I've given up on the series now that being on top of five grenades when they go off doesn't kill people.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

:Givern how CoD does with real weapons, watching them making up weapons should be eight kinds of hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:10, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

its been confirmed to be set in the year 2025,i would imagine a mixture of real weapons,and Treyarch-created mashups will be included[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

As long as we get (have) to shoot hundreds of rounds full auto at each quadrupedal robot it will apparently be awesome. I hope bullets have no effect on enemies until they suddenly die also. ~ACE

:I don't know, as long as the robots acknowledge being hit, a linebreaker enemy that stops you getting bogged down in one place can be good. ''Resistance: Fall of Man'' had enemies which would use their superior hitpoints (3+ headshots on normal for grunts with the basic rifles) to advance under fire while firing from the hip, which meant they ''didn't'' have to spam grenades at you constantly to stop you staying in one place (also they had Steelheads with guns that shot through walls to help them with that). It actually made the firefights rather more interesting than the headshot = dead standard. Though they at least reacted to being shot (flinched but kept running), it wasn't like ''STALKER'' where enemies were either alive or dead and wouldn't acknowledge any state in between (which in ''Clear Sky'' where they jacked up Bloodsucker HP ridiculously meant you weren't actually sure you were even hurting them).

:In general enemy variety is a huge weakness for modern shooters, since almost everything is 'man with gun.' If they do this ''right'' it could actually have far more varied firefights. Or they'll just have it invincible until you find the glowing rocket launcher Private Dies In An Inconvenient Place dropped, which seems more likely all things considered. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

::Dual wielding Javelins. ~ACE

== Come On ==

There is NOTHING warranting a page for this yet. All of you fanboys need to drop your cocks and have a little patience. Would any IMFDB mods put up with this for any other page or project with the same amount of leaked content, being 1, maybe 2 usable pictures? No way; this whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If there's nothing concrete worth putting on the main page, stick to the Treyarch forums. It's insane how quickly the COD community jumped onto it on IMFDB. It's fucking preposterous to discuss ONE PICTURE for a WHOLE GAME THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED YET. Please, fanboys, calm down, and don't get ahead of yourselves. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Finally someone who agrees with me. --[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I can't disagree [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:18, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

The game has been officially announced, there are several pictures on CallofDuty.com --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:47, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Plus, a trailer is coming out today [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:29, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Trailer released, and I can already see inclusions in the form of the M249. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 19:21, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Weapon Spots ==

Weapon spots from the trailer that I found in the new trailer: at 0:30 there is a M134 Minigun (future-ized) mounted on a four legged combat drone, 0:43 there is a tank drone that appears to have a Metal Storm weapon mounted on its left (our right), 1:09 there is a future pistol (seems unrelated to any real world firearm), 1:11 there is a future-ized XM8, 1:18 there is an M16 (which model can't tell though length suggest it is a full length barrel and has 20 round magazine), 1:27 there what appears to be an M249 SAW (or M240), 1:31 there is a soldier with a balaclava firing a bullpup short barreled weapon that bears resemblance to the QBZ-95, at 1:31 or 1:32 (very easy to miss) there is a soldier being blown away holding an AK variant and by the looks of the handguard and flash hider it is an AN-94, at 1:34 in horseback solders are armed with WWII bolt action rifles, at 1:36 the technical is armed with a Dshk hmg, 1:44 hard to make out but rider on the right has an AK pattern weapon, likely an AK-47 since it looks like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, 1:48 unknown shotgun. That's all I found for now. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 21:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:I have an intuition that the M16 might (and I have empathize this, ''might'') be an A1 variant or a faux XM16 judging solely from silhouette of the upper receiver. The SAW apparently has an Mk 48 Mod 1 styled heat shield and handguard but that doesn't really mean anything, considering how the franchise loves to mix and match different variants. Weapon at 1:32, on the other hand, is ''definitely'' an AN-94. At least in aesthetic terms.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:03, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:: Isn't it "Kriss USA" instead of "TDI" now?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 08:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Possibly, but KRISS ALLCAPS TACTICOOL ARMS is a stupid title and they were TDI first. They only changed it because they've belatedly discovered the mil-spec subgun market is a ghost town if you're not an MP5 and they're only ever going to sell Vectors to mall ninjas. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

==Designated Arguing/Complaining Area==
Before this discussion page turns to chaos like all the other CoD talk pages, let's open up a designated complaint zone. I know many people want to offer their negative opinions about the game, so if you don't have any real discussion topics please post in subheadings here. Hopefully this will allow people who want to actually discuss the game rather than arguing or whining to avoid these comments and have an actual discussion.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

===Wow...===
I'll start off by saying the obvious- this game looks stupid. I mean, why jump from the 60's to the 2020's? I could see the futuristic idea that they were trying for, but this looks like a Ghost Recon rip-off. I have just lost what little respect I had for Treyarch. As more details become availiable, I might change my mind, but first impressions are not good. As with any game, if it is fun I will play it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

I've lost respect for the Call of Duty franchise after Infinity Ward broke up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

After at least one failed Soviet aggression in the late 60s, failed invasion of the Eastcoast US, ''failed'' (third time's the charm, right?) invasion of continental Europe within the last three games alone, you'd think the US at least would just get used to getting attacked on a major scale by this point.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:09, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:Well they have, it's pretty clear from MW2 that Russia tries to nuke the US so often in this universe that they didn't even bother with a counter-launch since that would just encourage them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:11, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I can't believe how generic they managed to make their new take on the series. Evil robots, mechs on four legs and choppers with unnecesserly many features. It's basically the same as every futuristic game. On top of it the game looks awful, name doesn't make sense, it looks more over-the-top than MW3. Could Treyarch have mistaken May 1 for April 1? This either is a joke, or will become one.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 05:46, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

What the hell were Treyarch thinking? I was seriously hoping too see what happened to Hudson, Weaver and Mason in Operation Charybdis and maybe if we would get to see how Price started his career. It is often better to go back to basics than too go forward complications. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:What made you so sure that Price was going to be in this game?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:45, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:From what I've read on CoD wiki and heard, 1/3 of the game will take place in the 80s and the rest in 2025--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 09:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

: @ The Wierd It - the 'intel' at the ending of the final story mission of Black Ops suggest that Mason is being hunted by an SAS team in South Africa lead by a young operative called 'Jonathan' which many people have taken to mean a very young Captain Price [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::I think it's very unlikely that they'll have any crossovers between the WaW/BO and MW universes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:47, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-05-02T18:54:58Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Future Warfare */

'''MAIN PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Only ''officially released'' images will be permitted. Leaked images, even if publicised elsewhere, are not permitted. This rule is not negotiable.'''

'''TALK PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Do not post lists of weapons you hope to see in the game. They will be deleted.'''

== The Newest Joke? ==
Why put up a IMFDB page of this game when it looks clearly like a waste of money

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks to just be like a space gun... It "resembles" a XM8 and an ACR, but looks like the SCAR from Crysis. It's just a future weapon. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:40, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

To be more specific,it appears to be the Malaysian variant of the XM8,the Malaysian variant has no built in scope like on the ones designed for the U.S Army,but a rail instead.however it has extra features of weapons such as the ACR, which Treyarch probably to give their own artistic touch to make it look unique and futuristic.[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Call Of Recon: Ghost Ops --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Well, I've given up on the series now that being on top of five grenades when they go off doesn't kill people.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

:Givern how CoD does with real weapons, watching them making up weapons should be eight kinds of hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:10, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

its been confirmed to be set in the year 2025,i would imagine a mixture of real weapons,and Treyarch-created mashups will be included[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

As long as we get (have) to shoot hundreds of rounds full auto at each quadrupedal robot it will apparently be awesome. I hope bullets have no effect on enemies until they suddenly die also. ~ACE

== Come On ==

There is NOTHING warranting a page for this yet. All of you fanboys need to drop your cocks and have a little patience. Would any IMFDB mods put up with this for any other page or project with the same amount of leaked content, being 1, maybe 2 usable pictures? No way; this whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If there's nothing concrete worth putting on the main page, stick to the Treyarch forums. It's insane how quickly the COD community jumped onto it on IMFDB. It's fucking preposterous to discuss ONE PICTURE for a WHOLE GAME THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED YET. Please, fanboys, calm down, and don't get ahead of yourselves. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Finally someone who agrees with me. --[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I can't disagree [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:18, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

The game has been officially announced, there are several pictures on CallofDuty.com --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:47, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Plus, a trailer is coming out today [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:29, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Trailer released, and I can already see inclusions in the form of the M249. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 19:21, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Weapon Spots ==

Weapon spots from the trailer that I found in the new trailer: at 0:30 there is a M134 Minigun (future-ized) mounted on a four legged combat drone, 0:43 there is a tank drone that appears to have a Metal Storm weapon mounted on its left (our right), 1:09 there is a future pistol (seems unrelated to any real world firearm), 1:11 there is a future-ized XM8, 1:18 there is an M16 (which model can't tell though length suggest it is a full length barrel and has 20 round magazine), 1:27 there what appears to be an M249 SAW (or M240), 1:31 there is a soldier with a balaclava firing a bullpup short barreled weapon that bears resemblance to the QBZ-95, at 1:31 or 1:32 (very easy to miss) there is a soldier being blown away holding an AK variant and by the looks of the handguard and flash hider it is an AN-94, at 1:34 in horseback solders are armed with WWII bolt action rifles, at 1:36 the technical is armed with a Dshk hmg, 1:44 hard to make out but rider on the right has an AK pattern weapon, likely an AK-47 since it looks like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, 1:48 unknown shotgun. That's all I found for now. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 21:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:I have an intuition that the M16 might (and I have empathize this, ''might'') be an A1 variant or a faux XM16 judging solely from silhouette of the upper receiver. The SAW apparently has an Mk 48 Mod 1 styled heat shield and handguard but that doesn't really mean anything, considering how the franchise loves to mix and match different variants. Weapon at 1:32, on the other hand, is ''definitely'' an AN-94. At least in aesthetic terms.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:03, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:: Isn't it "Kriss USA" instead of "TDI" now?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 08:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

==Designated Arguing/Complaining Area==
Before this discussion page turns to chaos like all the other CoD talk pages, let's open up a designated complaint zone. I know many people want to offer their negative opinions about the game, so if you don't have any real discussion topics please post in subheadings here. Hopefully this will allow people who want to actually discuss the game rather than arguing or whining to avoid these comments and have an actual discussion.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

===Wow...===
I'll start off by saying the obvious- this game looks stupid. I mean, why jump from the 60's to the 2020's? I could see the futuristic idea that they were trying for, but this looks like a Ghost Recon rip-off. I have just lost what little respect I had for Treyarch. As more details become availiable, I might change my mind, but first impressions are not good. As with any game, if it is fun I will play it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

I've lost respect for the Call of Duty franchise after Infinity Ward broke up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

After at least one failed Soviet aggression in the late 60s, failed invasion of the Eastcoast US, ''failed'' (third time's the charm, right?) invasion of continental Europe within the last three games alone, you'd think the US at least would just get used to getting attacked on a major scale by this point.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:09, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:Well they have, it's pretty clear from MW2 that Russia tries to nuke the US so often in this universe that they didn't even bother with a counter-launch since that would just encourage them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:11, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I can't believe how generic they managed to make their new take on the series. Evil robots, mechs on four legs and choppers with unnecesserly many features. It's basically the same as every futuristic game. On top of it the game looks awful, name doesn't make sense, it looks more over-the-top than MW3. Could Treyarch have mistaken May 1 for April 1? This either is a joke, or will become one.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 05:46, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

What the hell were Treyarch thinking? I was seriously hoping too see what happened to Hudson, Weaver and Mason in Operation Charybdis and maybe if we would get to see how Price started his career. It is often better to go back to basics than too go forward complications. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:What made you so sure that Price was going to be in this game?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:45, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:From what I've read on CoD wiki and heard, 1/3 of the game will take place in the 80s and the rest in 2025--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 09:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

: @ The Wierd It - the 'intel' at the ending of the final story mission of Black Ops suggest that Mason is being hunted by an SAS team in South Africa lead by a young operative called 'Jonathan' which many people have taken to mean a very young Captain Price [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::I think it's very unlikely that they'll have any crossovers between the WaW/BO and MW universes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:47, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-05-01T20:34:03Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Future Warfare */

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Talk:The Last of Us

2012-03-08T05:51:03Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Cool! */

== Cool! ==

Hopefully Naughty Dog will be able to make a decent Zombie/Survival/Horror game, unlike all those other suck-fest's in the genre since Resident Evil 3!
:Do you mean ''after'' RE3 or are you including RE3? What about Code Veronica? RE0? REmake? All were fantastic games in every way. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:36, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::Sorry, I meant 3 was the last really good one. I never played any of those "in between" RE's because they always seemed to be for some obscure system only. But these modern ones... RE5, Dead Island, etc... They're okay, just not the same. Dead Space came close... but in ''space''. I Am Alive probably won't happen and the next RE looks stu-pid. Naughty Dog usually does good work. I hope they can revive survival horror!

::Well, Code Veronica X was on PS2, which isn't exactly an "obscure" console (in fact, it's the most successful game console ever made and calling it obscure is like calling the AR-15 rare). Code Veronica HD is also available for DL on PSN (not sure about Xbox Live) I wouldn't label the Gamecube (which REmake and RE0 are still exclusive to) as obscure either, really. And sign your posts by putting four tildes after it. ("~") [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:42, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:::No, you're right. I don't know why I thought it was a such a hassle? Just go back and get a Gamecube whatever that is ;) Oh and I never sign posts when I'm ragging on something as sacred as VGs!

Dead Space isn't a zombie game, and there are quite a few zombie games that aren't "suck-fests" you just have bad taste, and if you're not going to sign your posts you might as well not post at all because post signing is mandatory here.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 17:29, 29 February 2012 (CST)

:And not signing doesn't exactly make one's post anonymous... [[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]]! ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:46, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::Report me Kornflakes. This isn't really a zombie game either. -ACE

Escape from L.A.

2012-02-06T22:42:09Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Converted Heckler & Koch SP89 */

Talk:Lethal Weapon (1987)

2012-01-06T05:11:05Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Flinching */

== 16s ==
I think that M16 is actually an MGC replica. You can see the fake foward assist.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:20, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== ''[[Police Python 357]]'' Ten Years ''before'' ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' And a French movie to boot.==
Got myself over to Utube and watched a compilation of the movie. There is a pretty well done armored car robbery sequence. It's nicely done when you realize it was filmed 35 years ago. There is a stunt when the hero [[Yves Montand]] does a combat roll while being shot at. A middle aged French actor did it ten years before [[Mel Gibson]] in ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' (1987)! LOL. I wonder how many people know that? I didn't until today. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:01, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

=='Old Timer' gun==
Riggs states that "A lot of old timers carry those" with "Those" meaning revolvers. This film was made in 1987 when alot of police forces still carried revolvers as standard issue, so is this comment really appropriate?

- It's meant to be a remark about Murtaugh's age more than anything about guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:31, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

::I realize it was a jab at Murtaugh but the joke still seems to imply that only old timers carry revolvers, yet at the time this movie was made even young rookie cops were being issued revolvers.

I think Riggs was basically saying that Murtaugh is the old cop and he is the new generation with the comment. He could have said something like "Cops are going to be using my pistol soon though so you best get used to automatics over your revolver", but that would have been a rubbish piece of dialogue. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:18, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

==Flinching==

I've noticed that Mel Gibson flinches quite a lot whilst firing, especially during the target practice scene. This doesn't really fit the character of a trigger happy cop who once shot a guy 1000 yards away. What's quite ironic is that Danny Glover never flinched in that bit. [[Special:Contributions/88.111.25.228|88.111.25.228]] 16:30, 1 April 2011 (CDT)
:Yeah, you're right. He not only blinks every time, but flinches his entire head.
::Whenever I shoot at one of those stupid indoor ranges I can't help but flinch too. I think they designed the walls on either side to bounce the gas directly into your eyes so the wandering know-it-alls running the place can tell you you're flinching.--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 23:11, 5 January 2012 (CST)

==Heckler & Koch P7==

Anyone notice the H&K P7 or variant, all covered in dust and sitting next to the grenades, while the General is burning in the flipped car?
--[[User:Viktorgorchev|viktorgorchev]] 0:15, 21 August 2011 (GMT+1)

Talk:The Last of Us

2011-12-24T18:57:30Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Cool! */

Talk:The Last of Us

2011-12-16T06:06:46Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Cool! */

Talk:The Last of Us

2011-12-16T02:34:17Z

Acepeacemaker: Cool!

== Cool! ==

Hopefully Naughty Dog will be able to make a decent Zombie/Survival/Horror game, unlike all those other suck-fest's in the genre since Resident Evil 3!

Talk:Mythbusters

2011-12-08T23:32:46Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Whoops... */

.38 special bullets actually measure .357in OD.

==Silver Bullets==
:Silver bullets are more effective than lead against BIG GAME because silver is much harder than lead and does not deform as much on impact. This means that the silver bullet penetrates deeper into the target, which is why BIG GAME HUNTERS use silver bullets when hunting BIG GAME (they are much more likely to kill the animal on the first shot than they are with a lead round)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 19:40, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Cite your soucres, silver is too valuable to be used as a projectile
:I've met a few big game hunters, and that's what they told me they use (they only buy small batches though)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:48, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

::From Wikipedia, not 100% accurate all the time, but this sounds right to me.
"Contrary to the legend that a silver bullet is vastly superior over a lead bullet, the opposite is true. Lead is a soft metal, while silver is much harder. This gives lead two critical advantages over silver. First, as the bullet travels down the barrel of a modern gun, it takes advantage of rifling, which spins the bullet in order to provide a better trajectory. A soft lead bullet will grip the rifling, allowing it to spin. A hard silver bullet won't be able to grip the rifling, and therefore spin significantly less, if it spins at all. Also, when a lead bullet enters a body, the soft lead flattens out and tears a large hole through tissue. The silver bullet, on the other hand, retains its shape as it passes through a body and makes a much smaller hole, making it less likely to cause lethal bleeding or to strike a vital organ."

I know of Ballistic Silvertip bullets, which are apparently very effective. Though I do not know if they are pure silver or just a silver coloured metal. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 06:44, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
:I think I will believe the word of 3 honest men over that of wikipedia-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:23, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

----

I found this picture online. It's not seen in the show but still, uh, interesting. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 22:29, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Bond-mythbusters.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]

Yeah I think the poster is from one of the two "James Bond" specials they did. One of the specials had a rather interesting use of a Dillon Aero minigun. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:17, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

==Moved from main page==
===Remington 700===
* In one episode, to test the "Shooting through the scope" myth, Adam and Jamie, along with the range owner, tested shooting throught the scope with a .308 caliber Remington 700. If they really wanted to test it properly, they would have used a Winchester Model 70 .30-06 rifle, and would have known that both scopes must be perfectly aligned for the project to work. Also, Hathcock was much closer to his target, while they tested it at 100 yards and innaccurately at point blank.
:Hathcock said in his own words that he shot through a RIFLE scope, and pondered that if he had waited another second, the other sniper would have likely done the same to him, since to shoot through the scope requires both scopes to be aimed dead on to each other.
[[Image:Remington 700 BDL.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 700 .308 Winchester]]
They retested it with a .30-06 later.

Hathcock shot the enemy sniper through the old 3.5x scope mounted on his Mosin-Nagant, it said specifically in Marine Sniper. Hathcock also wondered if he would be able to take the rifle home as a souvenier, but he never saw it again.

They shot the wrong scope too-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Didn't Hathcock use an M14 or M40 as his rifle

No, GSgt Carlos Hathcock specificaly said he preferred the Winchester m70 .30-06 spgfld over the Remington m40a1 .308 winchester (.308 NATO) which was desighned to replace the Winchester m70s due to the fact that the m70 was just a "hunting rifle" per say and was not developed for usage as a "sniper rifle". And the "sniper" varient of the m14 was designated the m21. -Drh

I actually have read in one article that when Hathcock came back for his second tour that he was surprised to still see that the core was still using the the Model 70s and was expecting that they'd be replaced by the M40s.

Also just as a fact, the original M40s WERE designed as a hunting rifle. Heavy varmit barrels, plain finish on the stock and barrel. only real difference was the caliber. Also Hathcock did in fact use an M40 to obtain his last few kills in Vietnam.

as for the M21, he was known to use not only that rifle but also an M1D, however none of his famous shots were made with those rifles; the only famous shot he made without his trusty model 70 was his distance record setting kill which was made with a M2 machine gun with a specially developed mount for his scope

===Smith & Wesson SW99===
* Season 6, episode 1 "James Bond Special 1": Kari tries to pierce a propane tank with a [[Smith & Wesson SW99]] - and fails.
[[Image:Sw99 small.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson SW99 - 9mm]]
''I remember this episode. Kind of aggravated me when they misidentified it as Bond's gun.''
:''Correct. Though the S&W99 resembles the Walther P99, it certainly is NOT James Bond's gun. This show gets it wrong a lot regarding weapons (not the physics, but attributions and historical details). The proof of physics is good, their historical fact checking is bad.''

but its still chambered in 9mm same as the actual P99 is, unless Bond was using .40 S&W version of the P99, which is doubtful because its clearly a 9mm.

:''Regardless, it's NOT 007's weapon. Kind of like how a Norinco Type 56 isn't a genuine, true-blue Russian-produced AK-47.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 03:44, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The Walther P99 is now used by bond in the later movies. And the only difference between the Walther and the S&W are the markings and the cosmetics. Besides that they are basicly the same gun and the reason Mythbusters used a S&W is they the only version you can get new. S&W is now importing the Walther for the Germans and that is the same gun.

:Isn't a SW99 just a P99 assembled by S&W for Walther, who also import their PP series through S&W?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 19:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:Subtle differences, like a slightly different shaped slide, rounded trigger guard, bigger backstrap and internals, but more or less, yes it is just a P99 with S&W logos [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Kimber? ==
''' I think we resolved this one... True? False?''' --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 22:45, 3 December 2011 (CST)
[[File:MB-Kimber1911-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Adam mounts the Kimber 1911 in the vice. (S08E01)]]
[[File:MB-Kimber1911-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jaimie preps the the Kimber 1911 to fire.(S08E01)]]
[[Image:ColtGoldCupNatMatch1911.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Colt Gold Cup National Match (Mark IV, Series 70) - .45 ACP]]
I don't think that's a Kimber, looks to me like a Colt Gold Cup National Match and the original style rear sight has been changed out. The flat top is another giveaway.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:14, 1 December 2011 (CST)
[[File:Mythbusters_M1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jaime fires the [[M1911A1]].]]
[[File:Mythbusters_M1911A1_(2).jpg|thumb|none|600px|Adam fires the [[M1911A1]] single handed.]]
Pretty sure it's the same one used here. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:14, 1 December 2011 (CST)

Not a Kimber at all, slide serrations are wrong and it also lacks the front slide serrations that come with a Kimber, not the mention the lack of markings where they should be if it was a Kimber. The slide shape is wrong as well, what Predator20 mentioned about the flat top, most Kimbers have a curved top, and the hammer is wrong too. (I realise that they could have changed the hammer for an aftermarket one) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:48, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:A Les Bear maybe or some other type of custom 1911, still could be a custom Gold Cup. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:09, 2 December 2011 (CST)
::I think all full size Les Bear's have front cocking serrations along with a skeleton hammer, so don't think it is that. Don't think it is a Gold Cup either, as the grip safety is wrong along with the profiling of the slide behind the ejection port. Also, although I have seen Gold Cups with dovetail rear sights rather than the Ellasian ones, they are not recessed into the slide like these ones are. This is either something else of has been hevily customised. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:42, 2 December 2011 (CST)
:::My Les Baer doesn't have front cocking serrations, but it had to be ordered without them. The serrations are wider compared Baers. It has spur hammer and it appears the grip safety has been changed out to the duck-bill type. You can see the remnants of the Ellasian sight notch in the second pic. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:05, 2 December 2011 (CST)

==Unknown .50 rifle ==

I don't know what it is but the .50 BMG rifle from "Drive to Survive" is definitely not an AR-50. An AR-50 is a conventional single shot bolt action whereas this gun is a bullpup shell holder action. It looks quite a lot like the [[LAR Grizzly Big-Bore]] but there are a few differences so not sure, could be a variant/custom. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:58, 2 December 2011 (CST)

The only difference that I see is what appears to be a trigger guard, for lack of a better term. I concur that it is definitely not an AR-50 and it really does look like the [[LAR Grizzly Big-Bore]]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:35, 3 December 2011 (CST)

It's a Maadi Griffin Rifle I can't tell if it's an 89 or a 99. the handguard on the pistol grip is the dead Giveaway. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 23:10, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I have never heard of the Maadi Griffin Rifle... Couldn't find much information on it either but you are definitely right about the handguard. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:27, 3 December 2011 (CST)

== Note on page formatting ==

The entries for each gun should not have bullet points in order to keep to the same formatting as the rest of the pages on this site. Also, the links to the gun pages should only be in the text descriptions at the top of each section, not in the photo captions. Lastly, keep discussion on the talk page otherwise it makes the page look unprofessional and scruffy. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

== Clamp = Ransom Rest ==

I found out that the clamp they use to hold the pistols is called a "Ransom Rest", for example: [http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=10972/pid=4929/Product/MACHINE-REST?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&mc_id=10000&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c3466_a_7c164100000_d_164200025_d_10078| Here is an example].

--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:33, 6 December 2011 (CST)

== Whoops... ==

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/us/2011/12/07/dnt-cannonball-stunt-goes-wrong.kgo

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:35, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:Experience is the name we give to our mistakes. The Mythbusters have years of experience. . .--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 17:32, 8 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-21T02:08:00Z

Acepeacemaker: /* RSASS Secondary Sight on the Wrong Side */

See [[Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

== KSG ==

Kinda surprised it never appears in singleplayer since it's supposed to be one of the "gimmick" guns for this game, has anyone seen one anywhere? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:07, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::Right now it's still in production. It was apparently a HUGE hit at the 2011 SHOT Show, however on the downside Kel-Tec is a pretty small manufacturer who happens to make pretty popular products, and that results in some pretty severe backlogging. I think they are planning on releasing it in early 2012 last I heard. The best part though is it's supposedly not going to be that expensive! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 18:14, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::: This gun is out now! It's going for between $650 and $800 depending on where you shop. I found 6 different places selling it by putting a simple search into Google. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

I think he meant in the game, but that's good news too!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:22, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I did. And now I've got one, I get to discover they got literally ''everything'' about it wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:22, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Do tell :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:42, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::: LOL ooooooops! I haven't found the gun in single player, but I didn't do much searching either. But yea it's so messed up in the game (multiplayer). First, it's not a continuous fire shotgun. You get 7, then have to manually switch (not exactly sure how) to the other tube which holds another 7. Second, for being a 12 gauge, the damage is absurdly low. It took me an average of 3 torso hits to kill someone. Also, you would think they would give this shotgun to have slugs in one tube, and buckshot in the other! After all, that was the main idea behind the gun! Instant ammo switching or a lot of ammo in a compact package! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Way to ruin an awesome gun!!! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:00, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::In Survival it's 12 rounds and it's just treated as a standard shotgun; no switching tube mags. It's more or less just a crappier version of the Striker with even less damage and slow pump rather than semi-auto. Everything I've read implies it's 12 in multi too, which as I said on the page would only be true if it were using 3" shells; since it damages like it's using 1 1/2" shells loaded with sand, I'm just writing that up as an error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:08, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Mk 14 ==

on the pic Price's Mk 14 has a CTR stock so it is a Mod 1 --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:20, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Soap's M1911 ==
In the pic of his holster, that's not a 1911. Looks like an M9, by the grips and slide safety groove. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:03, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== reload animations ==

A lot of the reloads are still carried from the previous games but what baffles me is there are plenty of guns that have a cocking handle on the left side and even some are the same gun like the MG36 and the G36 but both cock the charging handle from different sides. I was hoping the ACR would changed, but nothing really changed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Beefed up gun sounds ==

I am really liking the beefed up gun shots in this game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)
::Lol... Everything but the ARs have good sounds, and everyone else's gunfire sounds great (ie. your standing next to them). Now I'll admit I'm only about 1/2 way through the ranking so I don't have all of the guns unlocked, so I don't know what some of the later guns sound like. I will say though, the Dragunov gunshot is incredible. I mean like 100% dead on. The L118 is the right sound, BUT NOT LOUD ENOUGH!!! That gunshot should be teeth rattling! The Barrett M107 is the same way; right but not loud enough! I just cope with it by cranking the volume when no one's home :D --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:36, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Actually, this was one of the things I really ''didn't'' like in this game, they all sound like they were made on a computer as opposed to being recorded. Think of the M200 in MW2, and a few others, they sound like, well, it's hard to describe, but something like metal hitting against metal? I dunno, but the Desert Eagle's sound in this is very bad compared to COD4 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::::That's what I think the Assault Rifles and quite a few LMGs sound like. They finally fixed the pistols and sniper rifle's sounds, but totally messed up the others! What the heck? --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 14:50, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== Overall thoughts on the game ==
To be honest folks, this game turned out really good in the end. The gameplay doesn't feel as noobified like the last game was, the graphics, game engine and gameplay is more sharper and cleaner this time around as opposed to the glitches and bugs in second game, the multiplayer isn't so bland, the SpecOps feel more polished and fun, and the game's story explained a whole lot more stuff to the overall plot than Modern Warfare 2 did, and it left it on a more appropriate closure to the series. All in all, a good game. Maybe it's nothing groundbreaking in the "realism" factor (We'll leave that to Battlefield), but it still turned out to be a damn good game, and definitely worth the price. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:42, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::After watching the whole Singleplayer playthrough, and some MP stuff too, I agree. While (to me) it doesn't beat MW1, it sure is better than MW2 and BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)
:Modern Warfare 3 had the gameplay of Modern Warfare 2, but has more-balanced multiplayer content (though the multiplayer is obviously borrowed from Modern Warfare 2), gameplay, perks, satisfying story with clear parts (unlike Modern Warfare 2, which had a muddled plot), and like everyone said, realistic gun sounds. Even though it is not as successful or good as the older Call of Duty games and the other modern FPS games, it is overall the best video game set during modern times. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:33, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Well, it being the best modern shooter is your opinion, and I'm certainly not trying to say that it's ''wrong'', but for me MW1 and BF3 both take the that title. I agree with your summary though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:21, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== MP5K? ==

Is there actually an MP5K in the game, or is this just an MP5A2 that someone misidentified ages ago? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:32, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:No, that is actually an MP5K (you can see the name on the right is "MP5K holographic," and the hold is with the PC's thumb covering more of the rail, implying it's shorter), it was just cut from the final game. It's quite likely that when the dev console codes come out you'll be able to call it up in singleplayer with a "give" cheat. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:45, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::As we all know a lot of things in Call of Duty games are copy-pasted from previous ones, and since what we see of the K looks identical to the MW3 MP5, and we can see the reload animation is copy-pasted from the MW2 K, so I'm betting they copy-pasted the whole gun, changed the model, but didn't change the name til after that video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:26, 12 November 2011 (CST)
:::This MP5K (if that is what it is, am still not 101% convinced) isn't the one from MW2 as has different rail system and a solid butt. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:40, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::::You misunderstood, the MW3 MP5K we're looking at, and the normal MP5 in MW3 look the same. The game files for the MP5K were brought over from MW2, and it was given a new model and name, but the name hadn't been changed yet as of the video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:::::I don't think so, the one labelled as an MP5K looks shorter. Edit: Actually, looking at the Spec-Ops trailer and my own caps you might be right, it's the MW3 MP5 but he's holding it like it's an MP5K because it doesn't have new hand positions yet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:35, 12 November 2011 (CST)

== RSASS Secondary Sight on the Wrong Side ==

Has anybody else noticed that the red dot secondary sight is mounted in the wrong (left) side? If your holding the gun as a rightie, than it needs to be on the right side so that the hand holding the pistol grip just has to twist outwards. With it being on the left side, you have to twist your hand inwards to be able to look through the sight, and between a pistol grip in the gut, no stock surface on your shoulder, a magazine getting in the way of your support hand, and a 100% unnatural face angle, it ain't happening. But what else is new. Go figure. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)

:You'd think you'd just put it on the top or side of the scope, regardless. But the left hold kinda works if you're willing to stick your "wing" right out for it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:16, 13 November 2011 (CST)

::I noticed that too but I just figured they wanted the player to see it. Even though it's wrong, I think it's still cool that they tried it. reminds me of Jerry Miculek doing a 3 gun match.--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 20:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Barrett ==

Price used an M82A1 in Pripyat as the M107 wasn't even developed 15 years before 2011. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:30, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Oh, whoops. Although a weapon not being invented yet has historically never been a problem for this series, you know. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:43, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::CoughBlackOpsCough..... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:53, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::OMFG, is that a suppressed RSASS between the two RPG's? In '96? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:34, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::See? SEE?! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:CoD... CoD... -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:02, 15 November 2011 (CST)

Also, the helicopter flying past is an Mi-28N (round ball above the rotor), which wasn't delivered until 2006. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Exactly. I recently updated CoD4:MW's main page about that issue. But something else I would like to know if in anyway, is it matter if Price used the M82A1 rather than the L96, even though the British Army does using the M82A1? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:24, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::The range involved, you'd be pushing things with just a 7.62. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

:::Ah, okay. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::Back then a Barrett M82A1 would be the correct weapon for an SAS sniper at long range. Although the M82A1 is still in the British army inventory, The AW50F tends to be favoured nowadays by both special forces and regulars (mainly EOD and anti material), so this weapon choice is chronologically correct although I think this is purely by accident. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Sigh, RSASSs... At least the weapons in the two flashback missions were close to being right, at most a couple years too early, but these? Really? Of all the guns they could have picked for that scene :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:To give Blops one point, the framing device does add some scope for ridiculous weapons (the action is being recounted by a man who's half dead, dosed up to the eyeballs on drugs and being tortured), though that in turn raises the question of why the interrogator is apparently letting him describe exactly how he shot every single person. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:02, 18 November 2011 (CST)

==EOTech XPS Logo==
There's nothing ridiculous about it, it actually ''is'' that big. [http://webyshops.com/ns/images/EOTech/EOTech-EXPS2-2-Holographic-Sight-2-dot-Ballistic-Reticle-with-3X-Magnifier-and-FTS-Mount-Flipped-View-MPO-III-Pic1.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:59, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Actually, there's still something ridiculous about that. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:12, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::How come? It's the same one. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:33, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Because it's ridiculous in real life too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Minigun ==

Are we sure it's Dillon Aero rather than Garwood Industries' [http://www.garwoodindustries.com/proddetail.php?prod=M-134G M-134G]? I can't find a Dillon with that top-mounted RIS rail, but Garwood's one has it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:44, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:If you go onto YouTube, you can find people shooting Dillon Aero miniguns with rails. It's more of an aftermarket thing, but they are out there. I'm also not sure why you wouldn't be able to find a photo, as 95% of handheld military arms have rails on them. Since the adoption of the M16A3/A4, rails have become pretty much standard on everything that might remotely need a sight. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:45, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, I meant I couldn't find a base model on their site with rails. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:06, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::Oh well you likely won't find one then. What is likely though, is the gun is probably drilled and tapped for the rail and shipped with filler screws, so that whoever receives the gun can add a rail if they want to. It's a pretty common practice on a lot of rifles. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:23, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::I wouldn't worry too much about the rail, as it is mounted in the wrong place anyway. Any sight rail I have seen on a minigun has been mounted to the yoke rather than to the gun body itself. Regardless, from the slotted flash suppressor the closest match is a GAU-17/A, which incidentally also has a sight rail. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::[[File:GAU-17A HH60.jpg|thumb|400px|none|GAU-17/A mounted on an HH-60H Seahawk - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
::::Looking at the screencaps again, just noticed that although it has the barrel assembly of a GAU-17/A it has dome Dillon parts, including the spade grips, the gun drive motor and gun control unit. Also, when you fire the gun, does the character press down with his thumbs, because this is what it looks like in the screenshot. If so, I think that this is incorrect as the fire buttons are on the GCU and the buttons on top of the spade grips can be optionally wired up to activate things like lasers or illuminators, or to deploy flares and chaff. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:16, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Yes. He rests his thumbs together in the middle when not firing, that's "firing" even though you can't see a muzzle flash in that shot. But looking at Dillon's site, the wording implies that those switches can be used for other functions ''or'' as triggers, so it might not be wrong, just weird. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::The trigger on these things can be a number of different options. I've seen a butterfly trigger with 2 toggle switches (one for power, the other for rate of fire) and I have seen ones with a power toggle switch and two button triggers, both firing the the weapon but each at different rates of fire. These guns are built to order, so all that's shown on the website is a base model. Extra features can be had when someone orders it.

::::::The rail is next to useless anyway though, because the gun is intended to be walked onto target. You start firing in the general direction, then move the gun onto target by watching the tracers (every 4th or 5th round). This makes red dot sights and most lasers pretty much worthless.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 10:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Well, the rail's always empty in CoD, so they might have actually got something right there. It's just there under the Black theory that adding a RIS rail makes any gun 30% better (the average gun in Black is thus roughly 270% better). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::LOL In the shooting community here, rails are super popular among people, but they add weight onto guns REALLY fast. Taking an AR-15 and switching out a normal handguard to a quad rail immediately adds on 8-20 ounces of weight (depending on rail length). Factor in grips, lights, and lasers, it gets heavy way too fast!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:08, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::::::And of course the 37mm flare launcher that you tell everyone is an M203, that's a vital part of every ridiculous range toy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::::Pah those things are really cool but ridiculously heavy. They are quite a bit of fun at night though!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:30, 16 November 2011 (CST)
I don't think those top thumb switches can be configured to fire the gun, as don't think there is an "input" into the GCU other than the main power supply. There is one plug I'm not 100% sure about, but when looking at pictures if it is attached it always goes away from the gun, possibly it is the power supply to the ammo booster if fitted but don't know. As for the rail thing, the one time a sight is handy is if you want to fire a warning shot across something, as would be a bit embarrassing to start firing and mince the target accidentally because you judged it slightly wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:Ok 1st, I don't think anyone on earth would fire a warning shot with a minigun. That just seems stupid beyond belief. Another reason a sight is worthless is because it doesn't take into account windage, lead, and bullet drop, especially if moving. These are all things you have to eyeball in order to make a hit.
:As for those switches, they can. It's all about how the manufacturer sends the gun out and simple electronics. Just like I could wire up all the lights in the house to be turned on with a timer or from my car, but there's just no reason to do so. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::I am only talking about the Dillon M134D, how other manufacturer set up their fire control group is up to them, but the spade grips here are for a Dillon. The GCU has 1 input and 2 or 3 outputs. Input is main power to the gun, first two outputs are for the motor and the clutch, and the third, if connected, goes away from the gun, my guess to the ammunition booster but not 100%.
::Warning shot from a minigun is not stupid, I have done it a couple of times to discourage fast boats getting a bit too close to where they shouldn't be, and it works pretty damn well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:07, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Fun fact ==

This screenshot

[[Image:MW3-Magnum-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Is actually ''impossible'' to get using Steam's screenshot feature, since it won't take shots during that part of the intro (loading, I guess). In the end I had to use FRAPS. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:25, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Glock 18C/Glock 17 hybrid? ==

I couldn't find a good picture to verify currectly, but even so the developers remembered to add a fire selector switch this time, let's not forget that the really really actual Glock 18C has compensator cuts on both the slider and barrel, in order to reduce the recoil (if I'm not mistaken).

[[Image:MW3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Undeterred by this, he's soon using his Glock to blow a Russian patrol boat in half. One-handed, no less.]]

If you open the picture above in a new tab, zoom in and look closely on the slider, there are no compensator cuts. Could this be, still, the same covereted-full-auto-fire Glock 17 model from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'', only with a fire selector switch? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 07:41, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:It is a Glock 18 not the 18C. Whoever wrote the "C" was wrong. Real G18C can be seen in [[GRAW]] for example. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:22, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:: +1 for the normal Glock 18. The C stands for compensator, and since it doesn't have one, It won't be a Glock 18C, just a normal Glock 18.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:00, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::Okay, guys, thanks for answering that :) --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:58, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Just noticed, they have put the fire selector on backwards. WTF is wrong with these people, it takes conscious effort to make some of these mistakes. It's like they just mess with stuff for the hell of it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:09, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:It's a little hard to tell, but it looks like it's on correctly. But as a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if they read these entries and switch stuff last minute just to mess with us lol...
:A side note that I noticed: The Glock 18 has way to little recoil for being uncompensated. The compensator removes about 1/2 the muzzle climb, however for being uncompensated and full auto, it really doesn't seem to have that much recoil.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:29, 17 November 2011 (CST)
::In the above image you can see the "pointer" on the fire selector, which is pointing backwards (If you zoom in you can see part of the circle of the selector above the straight "pointer" part which you wouldn't see if it was pointing forwards correctly). On a real Glock 18 the two positions are both forwards (up for semi down for auto). An easier way to see that it is wrong is in the create a class menu:
::[[File:Weapon g18 large.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
::The serrations are in the wrong place due to this, and the selector is too far back as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:06, 17 November 2011 (CST)
Gotchya. I wasn't sure if in the photo it was the pointer or a shadow, but I see it now. Go figure...--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:28, 17 November 2011 (CST)

::Also the magazine is shorter than an actual 31/33 round magazine, but it's still too long for a 20 rounder, 19-round mags (17-round Glock mag with a +2 base plate) are flush fitting. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:21, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== HD Screenshots from the MW3 Commercial ==

Here's some screenshots from the MW3 Commercial starring [[Sam Worthington]] and [[Jonah Hill]]:
[[File:MW3Com 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:MW3Com 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:MW3Com 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:MW3Com 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It might be a good idea to give this its own subheading (or even sub-page, there's a lot of weapons in the trailer). Usually we cover guns that appear in trailers and previews, but it's rather unique for a game trailer to have so many real weapons in it, and it'd look weird shoehorning shots from this trailer into the main page's gun entries. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:28, 18 November 2011 (CST)
:Here's some more screenshots from the same commercial. Note that I accidentally uploaded an existing screenshot. The following weapons appear in the commercial: FN SCAR-L, Czech Skorpions, RPG-7, M67 grenade, Barret M82, 9-Bang, M4A1 Carbine, M1911 and its modern variants, AKMS, Remington RSASS, M60E4, M16A2, and the M203 launcher. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:56, 18 November 2011 (CST)
::Actually, that "SCAR-L" is an ACR. :\ BTW, I just love this commercial for some reason. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)
[[Image:MW3Noob-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== I can't be the only one ==

[[image:CODBO-TDIVector.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Whenever I look at this image I feel an urgent need to photoshop Bill and Ted in either side of him and add the caption "EXCELLENT!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:34, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Lolz. X) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Hahaha!! :D Nice one!! - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:44, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Colt License ==
Did Colt have a licensing agreement with MW3, as well because if you look at the charging handle of the CM901, it has the Colt logo printed on it. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:49, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:I've got an image of the thanks section from the credits which includes everyone who advertised, I'll post it up when I get home. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::Cool, thanks man. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Main Page

2011-11-14T00:18:22Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Movie Quotes */

==Movie gear database==

Hey guys with all the questions about gear in movies (gloves,vests etc.) someone could create a page similar to this only with gear besides it would be much smaller than this database , what you guys think.

==Thinking==
For the last few days I have been browsing the internet and researching high-powered guns (.44 Mag mostly) and find myself wishing that some weapons were made sooner. Does anyone think that the Taurus Raging Bull in .44 Magnum would have been a badass weapon for Eastwood to carry (if it was around back then). What weapons do you think would have been good? NO SMITH & WESSON 500s! CZAR 4/14/11

==2011 Topic: Type 69: RPG or no RPG? ==

Recently, there has been some controversy about whether a Type 69 launcher should be indicated as an RPG or not. I've started a topic in the forums about this and also here to see if we can get to a consensus about this. Moderators, please weigh in. For futher information about this, you can take a look at the [[User Talk: BurtReynoldsMoustache]] page and [[User Talk:Evil Tim]] page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 17:17, 14 April 2011 (CDT)

:Leave it as Type 69 RPG.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:44, 14 April 2011 (CDT)

==Blue Bloods==
Can someone make a page for this new show starring Tom Selleck?--[[User:SAMBAMA|SAMBAMA]] 18:39, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

==Steven Seagal==
Why is their no weapon page for Seagal's The Patriot?
: Well Mr., why don't you make it yourself? And while your at it, sign your posts. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 06:54, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== Killzone ==
how are none of the killzone games on this website? i know they contain fictional weapons but its still intresting and other games with mock up weapons such as resident evil 0 are on here?

== Malcom X and 9 Deaths of the Ninja ==

There's a scene where Archie says, "Frisk me", and Malcom is unable to find the gun because it's hidden in the small of archie's back. Anyone know what type of gun that is? Oh and there's a low budget movie called "9 Deaths of the Ninja" which features a gatling type rifle called "the Dancer". Anyone know anything about that? Hit me up on my Talk Page. [[User:Des|Des]] 08:49, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

==NCIS/Sons of Anarchy crossover arsenal==
Hey I'm writing a crossover between those two shows and would like a second opinion about the arsenal the 3 Nomads use. it's listed below.

Nomad’s weapons: In Trojan Horse and the sequels that will follow The Nomads employ a variety of guns and weapons to get the job done, however they usually carry them on their persons, their saddlebags, or in their Chevy van.
Their weapons include:
On person:
Sam: Glock 22, KaBar, Glock 26 on right ankle holster, S&W tactical boot knife on left ankle

Vince: Glock 21, KaBar, 2 Glock 26s on a duel ankle holster on right ankle, S&W tactical boot knife on left ankle

Hank: Dual Glock 21s in shoulder rig, Big Daddy Jungle Knife, 1 Glock 30 on right ankle holster, Tiger shark combat knife on left ankle

In Saddle bags: 10 in each

Sam: 1 Sawed off Remington 1100, 1 Walther P22 loaded with ratshot, 1 Tec 9, 2 Kimber Custom 45s, 3 Glock 17s, 1 Glock 34, 1 Berretta PX4 storm 45

Vince: 1 Sawed off Ithaca M37, 1 Walther P22 loaded with ratshot, 8 Glock 19s

Hank: 1 Sawed off Remington M870, 9 Glock 21s

106 in Van in a custom extra tire compartment in the back floor, gun rack, glove

compartments, and boxes:

60 Handguns:

30 Glock 17s

10 Glock 21s

10 Glock 22s

10 Glock 27s

15 Shotguns:

5 Sawed off Remington M870s

5 Sawed off Ithaca M37s

5 Benelli M4 tacticals

12 Assault Rifles:

12 AK 47s

11 Knives:

5 5” Tantos

1 Spartan fixed blade

3 13” Bowie Knives

2 Neck Knives

8 Melee:

3 Louisville Sluggers

1 9 iron golf club

2 sawed off pool cues

1 black jack

1 Brass knuckles

What do you guys think? Are these weapons appropriate for outlaw bikers?
Also heres the link to the story:http: //www.fanfiction.net/s/5643700/1/Trojan_Horse. tell me what you think.

==Bolt-Action Shotguns==
I have watched some youtube videos with people using a variety of bolt-action shotguns, one of the videos is called 16 ga one handed redneck style where he has modified this bolt-action shotty by sawing off the stock and adding a green finish, if you can identify it I would appreciate it.

==IMFDB = Internet Movie Firearms Data Base, right?==
That's an assumption from the obvious subject of this Wiki. Don't you think the full name should appear on the Main Page? I don't see it anywhere! Fine Wiki you've got going here. [[Special:Contributions/68.199.188.123|68.199.188.123]] 05:20, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
:You are right! We should have the title INTERNET MOVIE FIREARMS DATA BASE somewhere boldly on the main page. I can EDIT the page, but it has a lot of wiki code on it and I don't want to mess anything up. Can someone else with access (and more wiki code experience) do this change? Can Bunni do this change? It seems pretty obvious and I can't believe we didn't catch it until now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:58, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

::- I see now we have a big '''Internet Movie Firearms Database''' banner on the main page. Looks good. All the OCD nuts should be happy now! Yay! :b Seriously though, it is good to have it, thanks and nice job. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:33, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

==Oh, and another question==
Just watched very interesting commercial. Directed by [[Sam Raimi]] it's actually spoofing [[Desperado]]. There are guns, including [[Remington 1866 Derringer]], one of my personal favoties, i can recognize it everywhere. There's also [[John Saxon]] here. Can i do a page about this commercial? Also, if more global, can commercials and music videos be here, as they also media, like video games and movies. --[[User:Kloga|Kloga]] 15:39, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
:I don't know about that. That's getting too much out of scope, I think. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::NO Commercials, NO Music Videos. There are tons of commercials that play only in Europe or Asia and we can't verify any of that info here. For one thing, you can't BUY or rent the DVDs of television commercials and (the vast majority of) Music videos to screencap them, or more importantly, confirm the veracity of said pages. Yes, chances are you can find a (usually low rez version) on the Internet, but really, do people wonder about the guns in either of those types of visual media? If we include ALL visual media, then we would be forced to accept news broadcasts, documentaries, industrial or training videos, etc. etc. and veer farther from the central theme of being the MOVIE firearms database. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:08, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::: You wrong actually - there are tons of DVD and festivals, that show commercials. And you can verify them via youtube Though, never mind. But can i do the thing on [[Sam Raimi]] page as a bonus like "Other Works" on IMDB? --[[User:Kloga|Kloga]] 09:36, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

::::No YOU'RE WRONG, Kloga. You insist on adding things that are (a) unnecessary and (b) Stupid. I'm on the verge of banning just because you keep on pushing it and pushing when we say NO to your various ideas. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:12, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

- Commercials? Music videos? Are you joking? Man, there are literally zillions of commercials that have been made in the world, and I'm sure a healthy percentage of them have gun usage. There have also been loads upon loads of music videos, with a much higher percentage of them having firearms in them. All of which would make for a rather ugly number of additional pages. You're talking about increasing this site in size and organization by at least two or three-fold, if not far more. Be realistic. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

==Request: High Heels & Low Lifes==
While kinda chick-flick-ish, it's still a highly entertaining movie.. and has some really nice looking firearms. There is a scene where one of the main characters, Mason, is standing in the doorway of a darkened apartment, turns to face (three quarters) the camera and pulls out a gun. I have no idea what kind of firearm this is but it looks really awesome.. and if anyone can identify it would be much appreciated!

==Jacked pictures==
The following are pictures taken from my website. The first one is edited, but it's still my picture. The first version still has my copyright notice on it, as does the second picture. [[Image:M1891.jpg]] and [[Image:M39.jpg]] Please remove all versions of both these pictures from the database. I'm not very familiar with wikis or I'd do it myself. --[[User:7.62x54r.net|7.62x54r.net]] 23:36, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

==English Scripts==
To unregistered users. use English script when writing on these pages. Most of us are American and don't run asian word scripts on our computers. Thus Asian letters are unreadable to us and look like gibberish. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 20:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Screencap Legality ==
How do you know whether uploading screencaps violates copyright or not?
: Pretty sure it is okay because no one has hunted us down to sue us, but anyway, as long as you don't claim it is your work and credit only yourself, you should be okay. -GM
:: One thing I would advise you to do is not upload screenshots from pirated copies of movies that haven't been released yet on DVD and Blu Ray. I imagine that if someone working for one of the studios saw that, they would be very upset. They'll know the shots came from a bootleg if the movie isn't out on DVD yet, and they might just throw the book at us. Avoid this at all costs. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:30, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

== Merging articles ==

Is it possible to merge an article with a pre-existing article? Every time I try to do this with particular types of guns, I get an error message that says, "A page of that name already exists, or the name you have chosen is not valid. Please choose another name." For instance, if I wanted to move the HK91 article under the H&K G3 article (since the HK91 is a G3 variant, I don't think it needs its own page), I can't do this.
::To merge an article, take the article, copy all the information and put it on the new page in the format you wish to make. You can also do this if you wish to change the name of a page. Take the page that you copied everything from and delete everything on that page. Write on that page this exactly(minus quotes):
"#REDIRECT (then use double [ ] brackets) and write the name of the page EXACTLY AS IT IS. Screw up the name and it'll redirect no where.
:Example
# "#Redirect [[[[M16 rifle series]]]]"
Note:How I made it look finished is what it should look like. Not what it looks like when in the editing of the page. Hope I helped. -[[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

This is probably rhetorical, but is this the same method of redirecting to a page, i.e. [[QBZ-95]] redirecting to [[Norinco QB rifle series]]? I noticed that a page for the QBZ-95 was deleted because there already was one (Norinco QB rifle series), but whenever you type in QBZ-95, there are absolutely no results for it, and that could be confusing for your everyday user..[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 22:44, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

== Let there be backups! ==
Ok, I've installed ruby on our dedicated server, signed up for Amazon's s3 storage service, and customized a ruby backup script to automatically backup the database and all image files at 4am pst and upload them to our s3 folder. The process really bogs down the box for a good 10 minutes, so I'm thinking once every 24 hours is fine, but I may go to once every 12 hours eventually... Thanks for putting up with the ups and downs during this time of transition.

Best,
Chris
[[User:Bunni|bunni]] 05:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to our new server! This is the first of many steps I am taking to ensure we never lose data again. The site used to be hosted on shared hosting overseas - we now have a dedicated server housed in a co-location in San Jose, CA. Dedicated servers don't come cheap, but your time, effort, and contributions are now my number one priority.

I'm still transferring the images that have been uploaded over the last couple days, don't worry they're not lost!

==The McUzi==
It wasn’t until I read the ‘Raw Deal’ article on the “fake Uzi” that I realized Hollywood was dressing MAC-10s up as Uzis.

In ‘The Dog of War’ the mercenaries are supposed to be using Uzis. However some are using MAC-10s and some are using MACs dressed up as Uzis. The actors seem to change weapons randomly. For example, as the climactic battle begins Tom Berenger is using a real Uzi and Christopher Walken is using a silenced Uzi. However in the final minutes both are using McUzis. This is made painfully clear as Walken holds the gun to his face when reloading.

There are real MAC Uzi hybrids. These are civilian versions of the Uzi with a .45 barrel, bolt and a MAC-10 magazine well to accept the universal Grease Gun magazines.

The Hollywood guns are merely MACs with Uzi parts added on.

I would see to real reason to make a gun like this accept that the filmmakers wanted to use Uzis but ran out. Much like ‘Planet of the Apes’ when the studio ran out of ape costumes they simply used paper mask. If you look closely at the audience of Heston’s mock trial.

I captured some great stills to add to ‘The Dogs of War’ article.````

== moved from main page ==
We're on the new server and still working the bugs out - email me at cserrano@gmail.com if you're having any issues editing or logging in. The backup file is from early September 30, so most of yesterdays edits are missing - sorry GunMaster45 I'm working on it! [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 17:03, 1 October 2008 (UTC) ''GunMaster45 I've recovered the latest version of the [[Street Kings]] page - anything else we're missing?'' [[User:WikiSysop|WikiSysop]] 21:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
: I had the R9 pistol which I had uploaed today but I redid it. Will the pictures remain fuzzy and pixelated or is that just temporary? (Hopefully) -GM

If you find something missing from the old server you can still access it here 66.79.167.132/~imfdb/index.php?title=Main_Page [[User:WikiSysop|WikiSysop]] 20:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
:I had just uploaded some pics of the AR18 from Terminator and the Street Sweeper from Total Recall. Can you get them back, or should I upload them again? Also, MPM2008 uploaded some new gun pics, and I don't think he'll appreciate their loss.

== How do i "screencap" a movie? ==
How do i screencap a movie?: [[User:Sick-vice|Sick-vice]] 12:41, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:Ah, OK then. We all have our own methods of doing so. Personally, I play my DVDs using VLC Media Player, which has a Snapshot feature which lets you take screenshots when paused, and then it saves them automatically as JPEGs or PNGs to a designated folder of your choosing. However, that's ONLY when I'm screencapping movies I own on DVD. I also rent and download movies using iTunes which I might screencap for IMFDB pages, and I can't play those with VLC. In those cases, I just hit the "Print Screen" key, paste the image into MSPaint, and then crop away the iTunes browser so that only the movie image remains. Then I save them to my HD in a designated folder. Once I've acquired enough screenshots for a movie, I use "Upload file" to put them on IMFDB so that I can use them for pages I edit. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::First and most importantly, you need a DVD drive in your computer to watch the movie. I watch mine on Windows WinDVD system, which has a built in "screencap" button by pressing P, which saves them all in WinDVD file. I take those files from the folder, which are all saved under BMPs and re-save them as JPGs using Corel Paintshop. If they are widescreen, I use crop to cut them out. I then upload them to the site and post them. Now that I've read MT2008's method for iTunes, I can screencap [[Shoot 'Em Up]] which wasn't compatable with my WinDVD system, but worked on my other DVD player which had no screencap button. Hooray! -[[User:Gunmaster45|GM45]]

And also you can use the program I use which is CyberLink PowerDVD which also has a built in Screenshot button. First the screenshots start out as BMPs, but then I use Irfan View to save them as JPGs to a different folder. And if they are widescreen, I use Windows Photo Gallery to crop off the black bars. You should also check out Gunmaster's and MT2008's methods because they might be better.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 18:02, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

What about taking pictures on a digital camera and uploading them to your PC? Does anyone know if it works?[[User:TheDon152|TheDon152]] 21:41, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

::Thats a very myspace101 question but it's simple there's about 4 ways to do it but I've only done 2. (This demonstration is only done on Windows XP)

:::Option 1: If your camera has a memory slot like a (Compact Flash, Secure Digital, Mini SD, Micro SD, Memory Stick Pro, MultiMediaCard (MMC), SmartMedia, xD-Picture Card (xD), etc.) you could remove the card from the camera. Step 1: Once you removed the card from the camera if you have a compatible USB card reader you can plug the card reader into the computer and plug the card into the card reader. The most common great quality card reader brands are (Sandisk, Memorex, PNY, and Lexar) for approximately $20.00 at Wal-Mart.

:::Option 2: If your camera has a connection for a USB cable. Step 1: You can easily find and plug the USB adaptor into the camera and plug the other end of the plug into you computer.

:::The upload process is easy (tested on Windows XP) your computer bottom right task tray will show a "Found New Hardware" icon and be gone that means your camera is connected. Step 2: A pop up will show on how you want to view your images click on "view with Windows" if this pop up does not pop up you will have to manually follow step 3 if not skip on to step 4. Step 3: You may click "My Computer" or "My Documents" most likely on the desktop or start menu on your computer you will go to "My Computer" and find a folder that says a brand of your memory card or camera. Step: 4 Click on the folder and look through all folders and once you find it you may highlight the folder or the selected images on your computer mouse right click and press copy (or press Ctrl+C on your keyboard) and paste the images where ever you want in your computer.

== How do i screencap from a television? ==
Like if i wanted to screencap some video games? 
[[User:Sick-vice|Sick-vice]] 22:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

If you have an XBOX 360 go out and buy a Dazzle adaptor, Video Amplification Distributor, and a few assorted cables such as an HD Cable for it. This will allow you to record videos from your game,and use a simple program like Paint or Snipping Tool to get your screenshots out of it.
-CZAR-

:You probably need some high tech gizmo. Usually people who screencap TV use DVR and record TV on DVD, then upload them on the computer. I've never done it but it may work for VGs. -GM45

::Personally, I'd recommend maybe trying an emulator to play said game on your computer (assuming your PC is fast enough to handle the software and game). I've been thinking of redoing the ''[[Goldeneye 007]]'' page for a while using Project64 (which has a screencap feature), because I can play that game at high resolution even on my laptop.
:::I recommend softwares like Fraps (only for PC games). It can take images with a click of a button and you can choose what to save it as in the Pictures section. The disadvantage is that you can't record gameplay in computer games and you must pay about $99 (not sure, but around there and you can also pay little by little per month or week to use) it to do unlimited video capturing. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:39, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

==Call of Duty 4 pictures==
I've got good pictures of guns for Call of Duty 4, but i don't know how to upload them, anyone knows how to email me at r1c0ch37@gmail.com

:All you have to do is go to "Upload file" under the "Toolbox" section in the left-hand column. -MT2008

==Protection Log?==
Is something wrong with the site. Why are all the pics being fixed with "([edit=sysop:move=sysop])" for a protection log? I know little about that technical stuff, is someone removing the pics or are they just being protected from over-uploading crappy pics over? -GM

:They're being protected. Some asshole came in earlier today and kept trying to replace MoviePropMaster's pics with stock 'Net images, and kept doing it even after he was asked to stop. MPM's pics are our pride 'n joy...Alienqueen and I agreed not to let them get screwed with anymore. -MT2008

Yeah, that's reason why I did it. I just wish I had my ability to block users back, and then I wouldn't have had to set up protections. I told that guy not to upload over MPM2008's images and multiple times and he didn't listen.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

==Flannigan==
on the Snatch page- I know it already says that the .50 is a 357, but also another way of finding out is that .50s fire 7 rounds where as in the film Bullet tooth tony fires 8 in every mag. so it must be a 357.

Retrieved from "http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Talk:Snatch"

==Deleting old files==
As y'all can probably tell, I have been on a huge deleting spree recently. I've been getting rid of files that weren't being used for whatever reason or another. Some of them were gun images that have since been replaced by MoviePropMaster's images, others were old screencaps that have been replaced by newer ones (like all of my old ''[[Hard Boiled]]'' shots, which have since been replaced by GunMaster's), and some were those images of weird experimental guns uploaded by Cutaway that don't appear in any movie and thus have no purpose on this site.

I realize, of course, that this by itself won't relieve the strain on the servers; it's inevitable as this site grows. But it seems like a worthwhile thing to do. If anyone of the Admins are interested in helping out, please go to "Special Pages" and click on "Unused Files" (at the top). If you see something that might be worth keeping (i.e. Choi's screencaps from ''[[The Killer]]'' which haven't been put on the page yet), leave it alone, but if you see gun images that obviously have no use or screencaps that you know have been replaced...ditch 'em.

Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

Good Work, MT2008. I'm sure it'll give us more server space, I'll be sure to delete some myself. One question, if we get rid of the old files, will this site load faster?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

:Beats me, but I'd have to guess...not ''noticeably'' faster. It will at least give us more space for uploading newer files. However, IMFDB is constantly growing, so it's inevitable we'll reach our limits eventually. You'd have to ask Bunni when that will be. Anyway, I'm off to the pub now. I will be back later to continue. [[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:20, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Go right ahead, you deserve a break. I'll get rid of as many as I can, I'm also seeing alot of screenshots nobody bothered to use, it makes me wonder why people upload them if they're just going to sit there for a year and gather dust. And, I'm also going to screencap [[Four Brothers]] and [[Assault on Precinct 13 (2005)]] soon, so you can look forward to seeing them completed.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

==Fictional Firearms==
I propose that we denote pages for 'fictional' firearms with parentheses "like Non Guns" so that they are in a different grouping than real guns. GM has made pages for the fantasy weapons of Hellboy II and that made me think about custom pages for the Morita Rifle (Starship troopers) or the M590 (Space:Above and Beyond) or the Blade Runner Pistol or any of the Star Wars guns (versus other types of Sci fi weapons, these should be guns). Even though THESE fictional guns are based on real guns, they can have their own pages with links to the original weapons page. Regardless, I think that guns that aren't real should be separated, lest they confuse users. Thoughts anyone? Thanks in advance.
[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

:I agree. I was kinda turned off when I saw the Aliens Resurrection page. None of those guns were based off of real firearms or even guns dressed up to look like futuristic guns.

::Well I get the point of making a post about fictional guns that were built around real guns like the Morita rifle and the Pulse Rifle of Aliens, but guns that were built from scratch like the Samaritian. Would it really need a page here or is that just for the fanboys who like the gun? It's like a page for the cars used in the Punisher movie or people who like to include knives, swords, and even bows & arrow in pages, including me. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

:::The advantage is that the page can inform an interested user that the prop was NOT based on any real firearm, information that is just as important as informing 'what real firearm' was used in a prop weapon. What I don't like are obvious NON crafted weapons .... like [[Molotov cocktails]] ... wtf? That's an improvised weapon, like a sharp stick or a brick.[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

::What about bows & arrows, or crossbows? I put them in my pages cause when they are used, they an impression and deserve a mention evne though they aren't firearms. Also what about knives and swords? I've seen some of those as well, but I think the knife of Rambo should stay because...well, it's the knife of Rambo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

== My gripe on Empty pages ==

I've been seeing a lot of new pages lately. The problem is that they are a blank! Nothing, not even a list of guns. What the fuck? I mean, a list of guns with no photos is ok, but just a fucking blank page? Do the people that do that expect someone else to do the work for them? They mind as well type down, "someone list the guns and put up pics for me cause I am lazy as fuck to even give a list." At least writing that down says something. Not just a blank.
:We all understand your pain Exy, we need a more efficient way to let the anonymous users know that if you make a page, you got to do the work. You gotta watch the language though, people will see it and think it is okay to do often. We all do it, but we don't want it done for no reason. Just ignore the empty pages, let them do the work eventually. If they don't, delete the pages. Half of them are movies I've never heard of anyway. Keep an eye out for [[Tropic Thunder]] and [[The Shawshank Redemption]], I'll have them done this week. -GM
::What about that new member who create thirty or so new movie pages (some of which barely had one gun in them) and then never filled out any of those pages? I'm tempted to give people a little time, but for movies in which I question their relevance to this site, I'm also tempted to get rid of blank pages and let people create them when they're ready to populate them with information. MPM
:::Sorry for the foul launguage. I'm used to talking on forums where the F word is acceptable when you are pissed. Swears is culturally part of any language and sometimes it slips and I like to think we're all adults here that do use swears in real life when it is required. Anyway. Nice job on the [[Tropic Thunder]] and [[The Shawshank Redemption]] pages. I've only done one movie that had ONE gun in it and it was [[The Forbidden Kingdom]] and even I did the work for it. I guess the anonymous users might also just be curious guys online and just hope we know what movie they are talking about, have it, and would take the time to tell them what guns are in it by doing the pages, but maybe on the main page, someone should put down rules of how to operate this site. I mean, I wanted to put a new qoute into the qoute section, but can't cause I don't know how to do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

=="jacked" summaries"==
One thing that irks me is people 'cut and pasting' a plot summary completely from IMDB. This is not only against IMFDB rules, but if any mods from IMDB sees them, they can make an stink about it. I'm tempted to 'erase' any pirated summaries and put a note to the original writer ''"'''Write your own summary in your own words'''. It isn't too hard, even to re-arrange the sentences and replace some words to make it LOOK like you wrote it yourself. Just don't lift them word for word from another well known source. IMDB itself has a rule that you must write your own summaries and not lift them from other 3rd party sources. So does IMFDB.org. "'' Of course there are so many jacked firearm images here, this may be hypocritical. Which is why I'm working so hard to get IMFDB their own exclusive gun images. But it's one thing to upload an image of an impossible to get gun which no one has, versus taking the time to type a few sentences...
:I agree. I did the same thing with my [[Black Lagoon]] page when I got here, but I took it off mainly because I didn't see the need for a summary at the beginning of the page that is THAT long winded. People are here for the guns and if they want to know what the movie or show is about, they just look it up. I don't know, I stopped writing summaries for movies and shows long ago. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
::I think we don´t need summaries.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:34, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
:::I disagree with those who think "we don't need no stinkin' summaries..." For those people who have NOT seen the movie a SHORT summaries are okay. I've put them on some of my pages, usually when I have something interesting to add. I do like them when someone puts a page for a movie so obscure that I have no idea what it's about (and I don't want to have to go hunting around the web to find out, capice?) I added summaries (and others did) for those REALLY OBSCURE East german B&W movies that are on the site. Who created those pages anyway? Like anyone's going to see Black and white German language communist era DDR movies .... oh well. I can always start creating pages for the cinema of 1930s Lithuania! hahahaha. But having no summary for SOME of the pages sucks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
::I found some summaries to stick out too much. Maybe a sentence or two to just give the jist, or a catch phrase like, but really I don't do summaries anymore. But I'll think about it for the anime ones simply cause some of them are harder to find or most people wouldn't have interests in them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

==Leaving your sign==
If you want people to know who you are when you write things on pages and discussion boards, put four ~ symbols after your message. Your user name and time/date are automatically shown. [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]] 20:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

:See?

:: What he said. ;)
::: I agree wholeheartedly ...
::::Yes. Just yes. --Maxaxle, [[Special:Contributions/99.50.201.235|99.50.201.235]] 23:47, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

== Should we have templates? ==

Like in Wikipedia?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It WOULD make this site a bit more...colorful than the standard white background, but if it's too much work, then it's up to whoever really runs this place.

:In all honesty, what this site needs most of all is cross-referencing of some kind, so that if somebody enters the name of a gun in one page, it shows up on another. It's a downfall of Wikis in general, and this one in particular. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

==Views==

Is there a way how I could check how many people viewed may page like on the home page the top 5 articles says how many people have viewed are page.
-[[User:Btracy1994|Btracy1994]] 01:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

== How do i replace a image? ==

How do i replace a image?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:38, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

== Updating ==

Can someone please update or add pictures to these listed pages:

*3000 miles to Graceland

*Blue streak

*The Mask

*Snatch

:The Mask and Snatch are on my to-do list. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== music videos ==

should be included on the site...i want to know the guns used in protest the hero's video for blindfolds aside...if anyone knows, please share, or at least where i can find out

== main page movies ==

What exactly is the criteria for a film to be featured on the main page? I was thinking of submitting some (unless there are already enough as it is). - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]
:Popular, critically aclaimed (but gun heavy I guess, something that wins 9 oscars but has three guns isn't a good idea), and it should have a decent amount of guns on it (like 15-20 seems about right).

dom't know who replied but that isn't really a good idea. Most movies don't even have 15-20 guns in them, and there are several low-budget films, and inconspicious ones too. Gran Torino one some oscars if I remember, but it has like 7-8 guns in it if I remember. - [[User:1morey]] July 12, 2011 3:16 PM (EST)

== Too many screencaps!!! ==

I'm getting a bit frustrated w/the amount of screencaps we're loading up. Is there any way we can limit the number? The pages are becoming much too long & scrolling takes forever. I know Wikis are not democracies so a vote would be out of the question but can we all please stop indulging our screecap skills by putting ALL our favorite stills from these films up & just have about 2-3 images per firearm? [[User:Tommyt|Tommyt]] 20:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

:At least for the front page I have to agree - the loading is taking way too long. I'm going to disable the featured page for a while and see how it goes. I can't afford to upgrade the server at the moment to handle the huge load. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 03:26, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::Can this be done on individual pages too? Take a look at the page for Shoot 'em Up for instance, seems like everyone just had to throw their favorite frame in there. Also, the Quick & the Dead is pretty bad too... Also, would it be bad in etiquette to go into pages & start cutting out images that are repetitive or unnecessary? [[User:Tommyt|Tommyt]] 18:47, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Excuse the language but FUCK YOU. And if you start removing my screencaps I'll be sure to remove ''you'' from the site. (sorry about the outburst but it is very rude to blatantly bash my hard work and contributions to this site, and it pisses me off gravely) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::No one was bashing the hard work or contributions. Don't confuse legitimate criticism with a personal attack, and your response back was a personal attack and beneath you, especially the fine responses you usually write (and the fact that you're a MOD now). I hope you eventually understand that I also mean no disrespect as well. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

GM's comment aside I'm all for detailed screencaps. Heck I'm going to be trying to collect a bunch for myself. Unfortunantly the interesting films I have are VHS. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 23:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:He's got a point though. I dont want to be rude, but when every single time the certain gun is shown, it doesnt really need a picture. 5 tops is ok. GM, you are very nortorious for 13-14 pictures of the same gun. i can understand showing cycling misfeeds/changes in guns, but on the Punisher page, you dont really need that many pictures of Castle shooting Spoon and Dante. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::You shouldn't have to apologize. The members who seem to LOVE tons of screencaps take it personally, like you're attacking THEM, not the decision to display endless screenshots of guns. I think when they think about it, they may realize that no one is trying to be insulting. When I screencap, I edit the pictures. Sure I might have 14 shots, but I choose the best couple and cull the rest. I don't feel compelled to force everyone to look at every since solitary screenshot, just because I took the time to do them. Just like a writer or artist, you must have the maturity to cut out what is excess, even though at the time it sucks to cut out stuff you like. Looks like some of the new (i.e. young also) members are trying to outdo the record for ridiculous screencaps. [[We Were Soldiers]] is now a page that I no longer like to look at, now that I have to scroll down for ten minutes to see the next section. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

== how do i screencap ==

i have many films, games exc that i want to screencap. please can someone tell me how to?
:You need a DVD-rom drive on your computer. Play the movie on a DVD player with a screencapture function. The images will be saved to a folder. Cut off any widescreen or full screen bars and convert the image to a JPG so it can be placed here. You'll need a photo editor such as Corel Photoshop or even Paintshop. Then go to the Upload file section and upload them on the site. Copy the picture's linkage (will say something like "Image:name.jpg") then put the image in double brackets [[]] and paste the linkage. now you'd take this image and write it like this:

(double bracket)Image:name.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Comment.(double bracket)

Look at some other pages to see this in use. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

You can actually screencap with any Windows computer, very easily. Just use the Print Screen button and paste it into whatever program you want; you can then crop out the interface and whatnot. You can also use Print Screen + Alt so that you only get what's inside the window instead of everything (I think PrtScn + Alt is what you want.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

==Should this picture be on the M16 Page?==
hahahaha. The CHAMPION of customization in the history of firearms! .....
[[Image:74ea0f45a31c.gif]]

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:19, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
:Oh hell yea! that looks awesome! [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::Looks like that GIF took a lot of work to make... Awesome though. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:::That would be perfect for the M16 page, so definitely yes!--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Well where on the page should this be on? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:55, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

:Interesting enough I don't see this thing transform into an M16A1 or A2
::M16A1 is dead and gone. the a2 series is the new and improved. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

Slow it down a touch and it's perfect! And to satisfy those who are sticklers about accuracy: split the animation into "A1" and "A2" animations (one for each M16 variant).
EDIT: Isn't there a silencer for it? Counter-Strike says so...
--Maxaxle, [[Special:Contributions/99.50.201.235|99.50.201.235]] 23:48, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

How awesome is that AR-15 builder, just love doing it for the hell of it.

== Grammar/Spelling ==
-
- Hello gentlemen. First off I just want to start of by telling you guys how much I enjoy this site. Anyhow, I come visiting from IMCDb (Internet Movie Car Database). I'm an administrator over there and given my interest in weapons and the similarity between the two sites, I've taken an interest in visiting your site. However, I've noticed a problem that I wanted to bring up to your guys' attention. Often times there are grammar and spelling mistakes and I think that it is something that you guys can improve upon a bit more. I don't mean to sound like I'm criticizing or I'm calling anybody stupid or anything, but it's things like that that could make the site look cleaner and more appealing. And yes, I do understand that english may not be the first language for some of the posters here. My point is that I'm just giving some friendly advice from who I'd like to think of as someone from a "sister" site. Thanks gents...keep up the great work.

:: We have tons of contributors who aren't even old enough to shave yet. Does that tell you anything? GM45 once described it as a small group of Mods/ Super users fighting against the cresting tide of the ocean, or something to that effect. :) An apt metaphor. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Hi, I am a fan of IMCDB myself (it was where I learned all about how M1 Abrams tanks in Hollywood are mocked-up Centurions). I do appreciate your concerns about grammar/spelling and agree with you that it needs to be addressed. However, being that (unlike IMCDB) we are a Wiki open for all to edit, it's somewhat inevitable that this will be an issue. I appreciate the fact that this is less of an issue with IMCDB due to the format of the site, and at times, I wish we could integrate elements of IMCDB into this site to standardize things a bit (I still get annoyed when I see people who call a Beretta 92F a "Berretta M92F" even though it says at the top of the page that this is not the correct spelling). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::::Fellas, I greatly appreciate the response. I understand the situation with your site and we ourselves deal with some of the same issues, as far as having younger members whose grammar and knowledge isn't exactly ideal. But thanks a lot for the response. And as I said earlier, keep up the good work.

:::::Thanks. We also have foreign contributors who don't have that great of a grasp of English. We also have guys who just don't know how to spell. One of my buddies who is a combat vet, former 82nd Airborne, types like a two year old on his computer. I jokingly say that I have to create a special filter for Babelfish to decypher what he is typing! LOL. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

===Our own movie===
I was thinkin'. We've got a lot of people on this site, a lot of them are very talented, we could probably make our own movie someday. I know a good script writer with an idea already mostly-formed, maybe imfdb should have a meet up and make a movie. We could probably all pool our resources and make an awesome one. Just a whimsical fantasy...-protoAuthor
:A movie based on a website? What the fuck? That won't work. I am sorry but, that just won't work.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:07, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::No, I mean we all pitch together and make an action movie. Not based on the website, but the website has the people and resources. As in, a community effort. -protoAuthor
:::That would be cool if only the movie we make is a cheesy action movie in the same vein as Commando, then we can do it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:45, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::::hahahahaha, uh no. :) Some of us actually work in the movie industry and it's not easy to make a movie, even a crappy backyard effort one with a video camera bought from Walmart. You're right, it's a whimsical fantasy, but you need a TON of talented people who know what they are doing in ALL of the positions of a film production. Not just armorers but you need everyone, a good script, good actors, a good director, a good producer (which amazingly is really hard since the producer is supposed to be a manager, NOT someone who micro manages the work by everyone else), a good crew, skilled camera operators, good cameras, pro lighting gear and a good DP or cinematographer. Oh did I mention TONS of $$ (you could spend a fortune just feeding the crew and paying for insurance and permits - salaries not withstanding). Wait, you also need office staff, pre production staff and post production staff and facilities (digital capture, color correcting, editing, sound engineering and editing) and then where are you going to sell it? You need marketing, posters, ads, trailers, a website, the list goes on and on. No I'm not making fun of your comment. It was funny and just that, fantasizing, but I know you are just throwing this bit out there and are not serious. Because it's akin to someone saying "hey let's stage our own high orbit launch of a satellite, all we need is ....." :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::I'm currently working on an amatuer backyard crap job now, and it is actually turning out quite well. We don't have tons of money but we can fund things like fake blood, spare t-shirts (to cover in fake blood), and blanks. As for lighting, so far everything has been working well for us. We actually have enough filmed now that I'm confident this will be a good movie. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Help with VLC ==
I need help with my VLC Media Program. When i screencap movies the program screencaps like normal, but when i upload my images to IMFDB the images stay like this:

[[Image:Vlcsnap-252103Mk2.jpg|thumb|none|512px|Charlie Sheen in [[Platoon]]. <s>The Problem here is that even when the screencap is in 1200x configuration, the screencap is still away too small.</s> Fixed!]]
:Can Anyone help me with this?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:I don't have that problem, but I'm checking out the settings to see what might cause it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

::I imagine you've got this sorted by now, but it's because you missed the letter "p." It's "px" as in "pixel," not "x" as in "times." And that still won't make it larger than the image itself is. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==Discussions on Articles==

I love this site, I have wasted many hours just browsing the wonderful collection of articles. My only qualm is some users feel that the article pages are also discussion pages to argue the validity of someone's addition. There is nothing that irks me more that when i am reading about a movie and then it becomes some kind of forum. I think this should be regulated to make the site more professional.

:We try to regulate it and throw those discussions on the discussion pages of articles but there are still some users that discuss on the articles.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, that has been a thorn in my side too. Nothing worse than to go to the trouble of creating a thorough, tidy-looking article only for people to clutter it up with chatter and arguements that should be saved for the article's talk page. that 'discussion' tab is up there for a reason, people! [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

:::I couldn't agree more, it turns me off when I'm going through a neat looking page, and then come across a bunch of comments and arguments. If we could just get into the habit of using the talk page for these arguments, then we'll be more obligated to use them more often.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:38, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

== This video ==

Have any of you lazy sons-of-bitches seen this video:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_3FFThpkyg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_3FFThpkyg]

It's fucking awesome let me tell you. And no, i'm not spamming links just watch the video. It's about us!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

:That's been out for a while now; take a look at some of those old gun pics on there, like the long since replaced M16A1/M203 with the 20-round mag. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:03, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::I know but i never seen it. It's really funny.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Unfortunately some our members are a bit too thin skinned. This guy wasn't being insulting. He was intentionally obnoxious trying to be a 'showman'. Some guys "telling him to fuck off" in the comments makes us look a bit immature. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

== How? ==
how do i create my own page to say what my favourite weapons and movies are and what contributions i have made? please can someone tell me.
:You have to register first and, contribute to this site. Bye!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
i'd hate to sound like an idiot but i've just done that (register and contribute) now what do i do?
:On the upper right corner of your screen there is an panel with thing about your username. Press the one with your name on it and write on it. Also, when editing, there will be an link with "Editing Help". Click it and read it. Now you know how to edit. Yay! Also, put four ~ after any of your messages. That way, you will sign you messages and people will know who you are.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

== Movie Article Request "Sky Captain And The World Of Tomorrow" ==

There are many guns, but I request this mostly for a big mistake in it. When Sky Captain is running on a log with a Colt 1911 (silver) in hand and drops it, the computer rendering shows a revolver of some sort. It is probably the same as the one in the scene where Sky Captain is at his desk and the reporter comes in, and he stops her at gunpoint.

Sorry if I was vague, but my memory's a little fuzzy.
--Maxaxle, [[Special:Contributions/99.50.201.235|99.50.201.235]] 23:46, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
:I actually own that film and I ''could'' screencap it ,but I effing hate that movie. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 21:34, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

:Is it really that bad? It looked like it sucked, but I wasn't sure-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:49, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

::It's just really corny. It tries to capture the feel of movies made in the 20's or whenever the hell the movie's suppose to take place, but it is just super, super, super, corny. If it was intentionally corny, it would be funny. But it's not and that's what makes it bad. The only redeeming part is that Angelina Jolie is in it. Unfortunately, she's always in a uniform and has a patch over one eye, so it's not really worth it in the end. The dues ex Machina near the end doesn't help, or the fact that the female lead is the type of person that would push a button for no other reason then it says "DO NOT PUSH". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:11, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== How do I ==

get pictures on a page? not screencaps but an actor holding a gun in a movie?

You know I've been trying to figure that one out myself for my users page and can't seem to upload pictures of my favourite guns or actors/actresses. Help will be greatly appreciated--[[User:Mikey|Mikey]] 16:41, 11 March 2011 (MSK)

== Fixed Width 1000px ==

I'm working on making the front page a fixed width design... let me play with the ads and featured articles for a couple days. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 22:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

:Created a new template for featured articles, you can play with it at [[Template:FeaturedArticle]]. I've currently only added 3:10 to Yuma and Live Free or Die Hard - feel free to add more. [[User:Bunni|bunni]]

==Random screencap==
Is there any chance of bringing this feature back? I liked looking at the different screenshots. [[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 11 Oct 2009
::Do you prefer having the site crash more often than not, for this little inconvenience?

== I need help with a Link problem ==

I started a State of Grace page, which shows up when entered in the search box, but when I went to add the info from the movie to the actors pages the link back to State of Grace is said to be deleted. Like when I went to the Sean Penn page and entered what pistol he used and entered State of Grace, when I click on State of Grace it brings to a page that says:

'''Warning: You are recreating a page that was previously deleted.'''

You should consider whether it is appropriate to continue editing this page. The deletion log for this page is provided here for convenience:
• 18:32, 15 April 2009 Gunmaster45 (Talk | contribs) deleted ''"State of Grace" ‎ (content before blanking was: 'This excellent movie starred Sean Penn, Ed Harris, and Gary Oldman. Penn, an undercover cop infiltrating the Irish mob in NYC carried a Smith 6906 in .9mm with a Ruger SP101 backup gun. Gary Oldman, a thug, carried ...')''

Does this mean I need to copy and paste all the work I did into that deleted page? Searching for the movie from the search box will bring you to the page I created from scratch, but the link from the actors pages brings you to that notice of an old deleted page. Can anyone help? --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 03:31, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

There was a small difference in titles between the link and the page you created. The link was State of Grace and the title of your page was State Of Grace, so that's why it didn't link. I made a redirect on the previously deleted page so it should work now.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Movies Page ==

I don't know if anyone has noticed but in the movies page King Kong (1933) is listed under B and there's no entry for it under K. Reason I'm saying this is because I guess only admins can edit category pages? because nothing pops up when I click edit.-[[User:Shooter2|Shooter2]]

::I fixed it. Someone put B&W in the same Category line as "movie". YOu put the categories in separate lines. WHen you put B&W in the same line, it thinks that you want the movie categorized in the "B" category [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:26, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

== Do a page on Pavement ==

Can someone please do a page on a movie called Pavement that stars Robert Patrick and Lauren Holly filmed in 2002. I was interested the weapons SWAT used and was pretty sure at one point even though she hadn't fired her weapon while clearing a house the top slide of her sidearm was locked back. I'd do it myself but I don't know where to find this movie as I saw it on TV one night and haven't done it before so wouldn't know how to make a page. Cheers
:Pavement was filmed in South Africa, even though the story is set in San Francisco. Funny how San Francisco, suddenly looks like the scenes from District 9? Lauren Holly used a Vektor CP1 pistol, and yes, she pops out and her slide is open, but it looks like she fired and the editor removed the sequence of her firing, wanting instead for the crazy dude to force her to withdraw by firing his shotgun first. It was an editorial decision that screwed up what was already filmed. The SWAT team used South African R4s, Vektor CR21s, some dummy SIG 550s and one M16A1(probably a replica). The weapons are what one expects from a South African production. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

== Actor's Pages ==

I see that a lot of the actor pages are being converted to the "table" format, but I don't know if it's clear what should be in the first category. Should the guns be placed first before what movie the actor used them in? I would prefer it this way, because it's easier to read that way. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
::You're right in pointing this out. I see NEW MEMBERS are changing the order in the tables on the ACTOR pages. Traditionally it's been WEAPON, then CHARACTER, then MOVIE TITLE, then notes. That format was chosen because it flows like a 'sentence'. I.e. John Doe has used the following ...... a [[Beretta 92FS]] as Krusty A. Clown in ''Attack of the Killer Cartoons'' (note), (year). WE should formalize a format and then institute it in the rules. Thanks for pointing this out. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

== Request ==

can someone do Wrongfully Accused with Leslie Nielsen. the reason I ask is because there is a strange LMG version of an M134 in it, and i would like to know what the hell it is, and if it is real.

== A question ==

So, this wiki has articles about video games, anime and animated films which are either 3d representations or drawings of guns. So why are stop-motion films, and other animation of this kind not allowed here? Why are they an exception?
::That answer is in the rules. The representations of guns are crude and not appropriate to waste IMFDB resources on. We haven't even covered the majority of our CORE genres (Films, Television shows, Anime & VG). And many of our pages are very incomplete or lame. So we tend to discourage new members from trying to introduce even MORE genres for us to cover. That and in those genres the guns are too crude to be listed as anything in particular. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:45, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

== Question: Live fire in movies ==

Hi, first of all, please excuse my English, I am not a native speaker. Secondly, please excuse I aks my question here although I know it is not the proper place for this, but I found no forum in this wiki. So here is my question:

When filming the German movie ''Spione'' (''Spys'', but there never was an English version) in 1928, there was live gun firing because they could not simulate it with special effects (1928), and the gun in the scene in question was fired in the direction of one of the actors. Strangely enough this caused a furor only because filming the scene was repeated several times by the director, who was was the lover of the actress in the scene, but it seems there was no talking about the live firing of a gun in a movie ''per se'' at all. So was using live fire in movies normal in a time they could not use special effects? Are there more films in which they used live fire instead of special effects? Thanks, Gustav

==[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imfdb IMFBD Wikipeda Page]==
It's been put up for speedy deletion. Could better writers than me go explain why it shouldn't? -[[User:JonathanDP|JonathanDP]] 18:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not sure I could myself. I mean, a Wikipedia article about another Wiki? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:57, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
::Too late, it's already gone. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 23:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
::Dude, there're many wikipedia articles on other wikis. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis Don't believe me?]--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 23:15, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::I was actually the one who wrote that article (Rockmandrum on Wikipedia). I wrote that article because there are also different databases such as the IMCFD (Internet Adult Film Database) and I thought IMFDB should go there as it's a database, but my article got tagged for the lack of sources though there are some sources out there. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:56, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

==Featured Quotes question...==

I dunno who is in charge of the featured quotes section, but I'd like to know. Can we, the registered users, propose new ideas of featured quotes? 'Cause I got a few, and I'm sure other guys have 'em too. [[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:45 March 7, 2010 (UTC)

== Quote suggestions ==

You might want to make your suggestions in the discussion section of the [[Template:Quote]] page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:06, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

==Page that can't be edited==

Seems that the [[Ga-rei: Zero]] page can't be edited. There a problem with this or should it be just deleted instead to start all over? [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 20:57, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

==Just Cause 2==
Hey guys. I know the first Just Cause had no realistic weapons, but that changes with JC2. So far even from the demo I've made out a Desert Eagle, M4-type rifle, MP5/UMP cross, and an M136 AT4. If anyone could screencap the game, I'd gladly do descriptions and the rest. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Hi there==
New member here. Just wanted to drop a line. awesome site! Some pics I recognize off the net. Just a question. where do you get the great gun pictures from? I used to use Security arms and Guns of the world for reference but you guys have some of the best pics I've seen, including some that I have never seen anywhere else. If you license from some stock photo site, please let me know. I would be interested in getting access to their image library! :) Kyle

-For the most part pictures that are used are from MoviePropMaster2008, he is IMFDB's armorer, he has a lot of the pics of weapons on white backgrounds that you see. Many from movies they helped with. However, he doesn't have all of them. Just check for the picture you are looking before uploading any of your own. --[[User:Camden Hennis|Camden Hennis]] 16:20, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

== Director's Pages ==

If I've seen a page on the site like Hurt Locker or Face/Off or even Heat, I might like to know what other films the director has done, so I think the pages are helpful in that respect. Judging by the amount of pages we have for actors who have maybe used or carried a gun once, compared to how many directors pages we have, I don't think you're saving that much on space. Also, if you're looking to make this site a really good reference site, omitting these pages just doesn't make sense. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:32, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

- Well, next thing you know, we'll include pages/categories for Producers, Production designers, etc. There's only so much this place needs to put on here. There's already an 'Internet Movie DataBase' that has all that other stuff. Like MPM said on another page - Putting a bunch of emphasis on what directors/actors/etc did what takes away from the primary focus of the site, which is to display and discuss the firearms and info directly relating to them. The actors are only here because they're the ones actually seen in movies handling the firearms, but anything other than that I feel would just be too much. If you want to find out about Directors and the like, again, there's IMDB as well as other sites on the internet for that. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:16, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

== Franchise pages ==

Like director pages, can we make pages for particular game franchises, like all of the Call of Duty games or all the Medal of Honor games? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:21, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

- You mean like list pages, like we have for movie franchises, film genres and such? If so, that would be fine, would make reference/look-up of a particular title in a series easier. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:No, unless the franchises have tons of titles that are completely different. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out all of the games titled "Call of Duty" or Medal of Honor" belong to a certain series of games. And I have not seen a surge of titles that OMIT the franchise identifiers like a new title that is officially a part of the Call of Duty series that doesn't have 'Call of Duty' in the title. Unless that happens, the franchise identifiers are NOT NECESSARY and add to the overall clutter that IMFDB is trying to avoid. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:12, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
::I was just talking about the really big franchises, and I guess it'd only apply to the CoD and MoH series. There are a DOZEN games in each series, several of which I've never even heard of. Users here are obviously fans, given how detailed the pages are and the length of the discussion pages. Maybe a chronological listing? Or a glorified disambiguation page? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:::There should be a ''see also'' addition to the pages, however, a glorified disambiguation page is not a bad idea. But the pages STILL need a 'see also' section at the bottom of the page that is complete. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:18, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

== Organizing firearms by type ==

I'm just organizing some pages. [[Heat]] , [[Ronin]] , [[McQ]], [[Public Enemies]] , [[Reign of Fire]] and so forth. I'm not changing the text or screencaps, but I'm anal and I am grouping the firearms by type. Just wanted to get that out there so nobody sends me hate mail. I'm not messing with anybody's hard work. Just helping to organize. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:42, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

- I took a gander at those pages, I actually like the grouped-together firearms, again, makes reference on the contents of a page easier. Especially if a page has a lot of guns that can be grouped under said categories like those pages.

Although some people like doing the pages by chronological appearance of the firearms (T2, as well as my own page, [[Nothing But Trouble]], for instance) but those pages either don't have a lot of guns or are very diverse.

But in pages where there are a lot of guns that can be grouped under some general types (Pistols, SMGs, Shotguns, Assault Rifles, etc) I think it helps. I've certainly seen some pages re-organized as such and it helped. I won't say it's the thing to do for ALL pages, but many would benefit from it. Just my thoughts. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm doing it to the pages that I created and a few pages with many many firearms like [[Heat]]. But I want to do it slowly. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

== Made for TV movies ==

What's the ruling on made for TV movies? I've seen them go either ways on this site. Dirty Dozen: the Next Mission is listed as a movie, while Lost Battalion is listed as TV, despite both being made for TV movies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:42, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
::'''What are you talking about? The Lost Battalion is not listed that way'''. For the record, made for TV Movies (or as called in Hollywood MOW for "Movie of the Week" as the major networks used to do, are listed as movies. They are not episodic series or Mini-series. If the entire thing is shown in a single showing then it's a movie. These made for TV movies are sometimes theatrically released overseas, and many of them are released on video/DVD as movies. Anyway that's the rule and I still don't see any violation of that rule. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:50, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I was referring to the weapons pages that link to it. For example, the M1917 pistol and rifle pages both have Lost Battalion under Television, while the M1911 and Chauchat entries have it under Film. And others not at all. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Well that's an error on those gun pages. If you see errors like that, which I am sure there are plenty of on IMFDB, please fix them when you see them. There is a LOT of breaks in cross indexing. I've long berated members for creating pages and NOT cross indexing them to actors and gun pages. And with new members creating new pages every other hour or so, the problem is just going to get bigger. All IMFDB members should try to fix cross indexing errors when they see them. Heck, there are pages I've made that I forgot to cross index some of the weapons entries on. But we must be vigilant and try to keep IMFDB accurate and up to date as possible. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:52, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

== The Last Hunt ==

Hi it's been a while since I've seen this but I remember Robert Taylor using a massive Winchester rifle. I was wondering if this was a Model 1886 since he was hunting buffalo with it and it used a .45-90 bullet.

I've seen a Model '86 Winchester rifle in the Monte Walsh remake and in a recent episode of Pawn Stars and they didn't really look as big as Robert Taylor's. I was just wondering if anyone knew if it was an '86 or maybe something else.

==Gun-releated quotes on actor/actress page==
I thought of an idea while looking at the quotes section: how about some quotes said by an actor/actress can go on their page? For example, Al Pacino's quote, "Say hello to my little friend," from [[Scarface]] can also go on his page, too. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Screen Used movie firearms ==

I have recently been searching the website for weapons which were pictures of actual movie firearms, example being weapons in Quentin Tarantino films.
if anyone could list some films for me that would be great. These are some of the ones i have already found:

*[[Scarface]]
*[[Pulp Fiction]]
*[[Reservoir Dogs]]
*[[True Romance]]
*[[Jackie Brown]]
*[[Lethal Weapon]] series
*[[Die Hard]] series
*[[Predator]]
*[[The Untouchables]]
*[[Austin Powers in Goldmember]]
*[[The Spirit]]
*[[Lord of War]]
*[[Beverly Hills Cop]]
*[[We Were Soldiers]]
*[[Tightrope]]
*[[The Enforcer]]
*[[The Dead Pool]]
*[[Dirty Harry]] - no S&W 29 unfortunately
*[[The Quick and the Dead]]
*[[Man on Fire]]
*[[Miami Vice - Season 3]]
*[[The Getaway (1972)]]
*[[3:10 to Yuma (2007)]]
*[[The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean]]
*[[Machete]]
*[[Fair Game]]
*[[Ghosts of Mars]]
*[[Wild Wild West]]
*[[S.W.A.T. (2003)]]
*[[Collateral]]
*[[Hidalgo]]
*[[Appaloosa]]
That's all I could think of, for now, also many have the pics on the site may not say they were used in a certain film, but a lot of them are movie guns.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

:::(a) Thank you. :) You're actually just chronicling my work for the site. 90% of the screen used photos I shot exclusively for IMFDB and I kinda wondered myself just how many titles I've covered. (b) it's sad but true that many OTHER gun pics are of guns that I'm certain have appeared in stuff, but unless record have been checked and verified, it can't be said with any sort of certainty. So we have TONS more movie used weapons than not in photographs. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:30, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

:We also have several guns from ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''. At some point, I think we need to make a page with all of the screen-used movie guns that MoviePropmaster has photographed for us. And then I also need to make a page with the gun pictures that my contact at ISS sent me. There are a lot of them on this site. Of course, there are also some that we've taken from other sites (like YourProps and PropStore), but I'd probably just put the gun pictures that are IMFDB exclusives. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:30, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
::That seems like a good idea MT.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

[[Book of Eli, The]] has that kind of stuff on its page and [[The Unit]] as well, if you want to be hardcore about it. [[Spades of Columbia]]

== Missing firearm (The Peacemaker) ==
Just got done watching this movie & there is a scene between the Russian General & one of the bad guys in the back of the truck (about 1 hour 15 minutes in) & I'm sure the gun that the General threatens him with is a Steyr GB pistol, he also uses it to shoot at the approaching helicopters, could someone else confirm this & update the page?

== Empty firearm ==
In some films you see that when a gun is fired, the chamber clicks empty but the slide doesn't lock back and I was just curious as to how they manage to do that?
:If it's showcased in a film, then it was intentional. Many directors who are unfamiliar with guns will use that action to indicate that a gun is empty.
:'''''Scene:''' Bad guy points pistol at face of good guy. It is a Beretta 92FS. He pulls the trigger dramatically. "click" nothing happens. Bad guy has panicked look on his face. "Click" "Click"! as he continues to pull the trigger. "Aha!" yells the hero as he swats away the empty gun and punches the bad guy in the face.'' DOH!
:It's done via editing. I seriously doubt most directors would end a gunfight with the phenomenon of a dud round (though dud rounds have appeared in the storylines of some shows). Or a bad primer. Or a worn or damaged magazine which does not engaged the slide lock. Or a worn or damaged slide. But seriously, anyone who fires a gun can pretty much tell when it's empty and devoid of rounds, unless it's not their gun and they're completely unfamiliar with it. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:15, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Bad magazines...its not the desired option on semi-autos.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

== glock variants ==
i just wondered, is a Glock 19 the same as a Glock 23 with the exeption of the caliber?

Yes

==Main Page error==
Has anyone ever gotten this error before? This happened to me many times. During this error, I cannot go to any pages unless there are links on a page and I'm logged out and I can't log in. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 13:51, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Mainpageerror.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

: I have had this happen to me, too. I am running up to date Firefox. It´s a rather odd error, really. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 17:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

:I've encountered it as well. I usually run IE as my browser, and it sometimes carries on when I go through Google Chrome too. Tends to be accompanied with a fair amount of lag as well when it occurs. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:26, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

:I've never had this error before, but I only update or run programs if I have to. It's running on bare bones only. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 20:05, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

- I had this error as well Friday evening (running FireFox), but as we had a badass lightning storm that probably played havoc with the signal, that ain't too surprising (Lag/connection issue, like Orca alluded to). But I can't speak for you other guys, though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

== Page Format Change? ==

I recently noticed that the page justification seems to be locked down, making actor pages with the table format seem particularly squashed if there's a lot of information. Is there a reason for this? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:58, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's an example:
[[Image:Actor Page Format.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Before, the page would stretch down to fill out the entire screen, but now it seems to stop in the middle.

:- I also have that same issue, though my screen hasn't lost that much, in which case I'd say it's locked at a particular resolution (1024 I'd have to figure, based upon my own display res). Not to mention it's also present here on this talk page and other pages as well. I too wonder what that's all about. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 13:50, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

::Might be for the upcoming ad test on IMFDB. will have to wait and see. If that is the case the we will have to change the layout on the pages to something more standard.--[[User:Phoenixent|phoenixent]] 16:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
==best guns for an assassin==
what would be the best guns for an assassin????
:That would depend on the situation he's in. Is the the assassin shooting from a distance? Sniper rifle then. In a place where there are other people around that could hear a gunshot. Suppressed small caliber handgun. You should also remember there is a million and one ways to kill someone. A gun is just one of tools to use.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 13:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Choice guns for an assassin:

-H&K USP
-H&K Mk. 23
-Any Glock models
-Agent 47's AMT Hardballers
-Walther P99
-Walther PP or PPK
-FN FNP-45 or FNP-49
-FN Five-Seven
-Colt M1911
-Para-Ordinance P14-45 or P18.9
-Kimber Warrior
-Colt M1911 or Variants
-Beretta 92, 81, or 84
-Browning Hi-Powered
-Ruger Mk. II (Best Bet)
-Browning BDA
-Luger Or High-Standard if your old-school
-Makarov
-SIG P220, P226, P228, P229
-Steyr M9 or GB
-These are some of my personal choices, feel free to comment.
I understand that, but I was looking for something more precise, like in "Assassins" they make a big deal about using those Ruger .22, but in "Collateral" the hitman uses a H&K .45 (well, he also use a Ruger .22), in "The Replacement Killer" the killer is into Berettas 92f, but what would be the perfect gun for a profesional, smart and effective assassin??????

It's hard to say if their is a "perfect" assassin's weapon because people will always have opinions, but the Ruger Mk. 2 is definitely a Top 5, look up a video of a supressed Mk. 2 and you'll see what I mean. I would have to say that either a .380 or .32 pistol for stealth but .45 or 9mm for power. [[Czar]]

I would go with two Beretta Model 71's with suppressors, extended 12 round mags, and loading it with hollow-point bullets.[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] 15:46, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

:In films like you mention, it's going to depend on what the writer or director chose to use. (Whether it was the ideal choice is another matter.) In Collateral he uses the H&K for the most part because noise isn't an issue and the .45 is a good round. He uses Ruger .22 only when in a restaurant. In the nightclub there's lots of people around, but he could get out with the crowd. The target also had several bodyguards. In the Replacement Killers the 92F was most likely chosen because Chow Yun-Fat used them in his prior films and knew how to handle them. There is no one gun that is the "perfect gun for a professional, smart and effective assassin." Since you're talking handgun distances there's too many good guns to choose from. Go with whatever you feel like in your story (I guess and hope that's the reason why you asked). If I had to choose I'd go with the 1911. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 12:49, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Agent 47 all the way, AMT Hardballers with optional longslide and supressor. More seriously, I guess a pistol like a Hi-Power or a Beretta 92 with a supressor would be good for closer range killings. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 14:36, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank ypu guys, Predator, I'm a scriptwritter, I don't own a gun and I don't want to kill anyone, so don't worry. I just like good assassins in movies, what about a H6K p7m8?????, It's such a compact gun for a 9mm, I always thought it was kind like a tactic gun, isn't it????? why Swat teams are into Kimbers?????
:Do you not speak English or are you just a kid? You grammar is terrible and with some many question marks at the end of your sentence, you must be a 12 year old or someone under 15. Also, it's very simple why SWAT like Kimbers, they like 1911s in general for its reliability. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:12, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Excalibur, English is not my first language, so I'm sorry that my grammar is so terrible, but I'm glad that the people here know what I mean, and BTW I'm 30 years old, not 12 or 15....

You can't errase the serial number of a Glock, so that make it a bad choice for an assasin, what do you people think????

Still thinking in the perfect gun for an profesional assassin (don't worry, I'm a scriptwriter, I don't own a gun and never shotted anything). Now I'm thinking that a 9mm compact is a good option, but it have to be alloy, steel or metal frame, not polymer, so you can errase the serial numbers, high mag capacity and it have to be in production. What would you recomend? I will love it to be a H&K P7M13, that is the perfect gun, a beauty, but is not currently under production and it will impossible to get a "clean" one. (Lenny)
:In my opinion, the best weapons for an assassin to snipe with would either be the Cheytec Intervention, Stealth Recon Scout, or the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series. This is because all three sniper rifles use high caliber ammunition, are extremely accurate due to their advanced designs, and are man-portable and not cumbersome to carry. A good CQB weapon would be the Magpul FMG9 because of the fact that you can have a weapon system at the ready discreetly without people knowing that you are armed and the fact that is is lightweight (only 1 pound), accurate, and sporting a high rate of fire. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 10:23, 8 September 2011 (CDT)

== Listverse.com ==
Here's a cool little list I found on The List Universe.com about the 10 greatest firearms in history.

http://listverse.com/2009/10/07/top-10-greatest-firearms-in-history/

not such a good list IMO. Where is the Sturmgewher 44? Basically started the assault rifle revolution? The Winchester M1873 (they didn't call it the gun that won the west for nothing) sure the Henry was first, but the Winchester set the standard. [[Special:Contributions/65.29.239.251|65.29.239.251]] 06:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

well, they can only fit ten in. [[User:jackbel]]

heres another one I found on that site: 10 greatest firearm designers.--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 02:24, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

http://listverse.com/2010/05/23/top-10-greatest-firearms-designers/

== This is ridiculous...==
anybody else think that the amount of pages slated for deletion is absolutely absurd and unneccesary?

We're cleaning out the pages that are either not good enough or not supposed to be on the wiki. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:21, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I am only restoring some of the pages that look like there was some work put into them. These can still be deleted, but I just want make sure that's what the consensus is. This is probably going to be discussed in the forum. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:06, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

: I made a note about the 'Documentary' matter in the discussion for the [[Mail Call]] page earlier. In any case, I'm sure the admins will let us know what will happen about all that in due course. Other than that, almost all the other pages slated for deletion are piss-poor pages that should indeed be in the Delete category. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:09, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

== Reviewguy/girl ==
So, did the search pay off? Do we have our own movie reviewer? What's the deal anyways? Just curious :)--[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 20:46, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

:- I almost forgot about that.. Well, indeed, what of it? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:08, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Are we gonna get a section for film reviews? If so, are the reviews gonna be the "normal" kind (what we see in the papers, tv, etc.) or are the reviews gonna emphasize gun use/usage in films?

== A Question ==
How do I submit a quote from a movie so it will appear on the Featured quotes section? [[User:jackbel]]

: Go [[Template:Quote|here]] and simply edit it in according to the template. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 05:21, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

well, how do you submit screencaps to the featured movies section? [[User:jackbel]]

: [[Template:FeaturedArticle|Click]]. Add it according to the template. If you are unsure of how it will look, try it out on the discussion page first. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 09:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Most Popular Gun? ==

I can't believe this hasn't been asked. So, Lets hear your views.

:- The top most viewed gun page on the site is the [[M1911 pistol series]] ‎(526,596 views), followed by the [[M16 rifle series]] ‎(420,778 views). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:00, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I actually meant popular by appearances. I've found out though [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:MostImages here] that it's the Beretta 92FS. Strange how the Annihilator 2000 is 2nd though?!

:That's because it is the icon that appears in the banner at the top of a page that is incomplete.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 11:20, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

:: Indeed, by the 'Linked most' attribute, the Annihilator image stat is misleading - Exclude the pages with the Incomplete template and it is certainly NOT the second most used gun image. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

== An urgent notice ==

If you see something that is wrong, PLEASE don't just say so, CHANGE it yourself.--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 05:14, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Uh, I'm afraid that statement is a bit ambiguous and potentially misleading. We all have our own opinion on what we see is 'wrong' on a page, and based on my own personal experience, you ''don't'' make changes based solely on that. I believe what Jackbel means is that if you see something that you are ''certain'' is wrong/incorrect on a page, especially spoilers, spelling/format errors, obviously false information, or anything of that particular sort, then it's probably ok to change that. ''Otherwise'', it is probably better to make a note in the proper discussion page about it, especially if you're not absolutely certain, as the RS&P states. Not to barge in, but I just think that needed a bit of flushing out. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok, no need to get so hasty --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 20:08, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: Sorry, I really wasn't trying to snob you man, but from what I gather, it's usually better for users to make notes and ask first about any serious or notable edits as many of the other members/admins find that less annoying than reverting bad edits - A note about that is in the RS&P. Again, not trying to snob you dude, Honest! :) [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:53, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Facebook ==

We should totally have like a "recommend" or "like" buttons on the database... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 13:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

== Do firearms work in space? ==

Stupid hypothetical question, but was watching the most recent episodes of [[Stargate Universe]] and one character was carrying a [[Heckler & Koch UMP]] in a hard vacuum, zero gravity situation. This got me wondering, would unmodified firearms reliably operate in space? I can imagine recoil and blowback operated weapons working ok, but am not so sure about any gun that uses gas operation. Also, would the coldness of space cause problems for the rounds to go off, and if they did would the gun components fracture at this low a temperature (About -270 degrees Celsius for arguments sake). And then even if the gun did fire there would be the problem that it would then very quickly overheat, as there would be no air to cool it, not to mention the fact that any lubricants would either be frozen, or instantly vaporise in the vacuum. I know that there were experiments by the Russians putting a Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 (or NR-30) cannon into space and shooting down target satellites, but has there ever been any experimentation with regular small arms? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 16:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

definitely not, for the same reason that there can't be any explosions in space, because fire needs oxygen and theres none of that in space.--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:44, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Not true actually, all gunpowders and the majority of explosives do not require external oxygen to detonate, as they have an oxidant as part of the composition. How do you think a torpedo explodes? Or how a rocket can work in space? [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Firefly the series does a good job addressing that issue. i believe it was "Our Mrs. Reynolds".--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 21:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:I remember that episodes, and Jayne said Vera (his gun) needed air around her to fire, so I believe that this line was purely based on the misconception that bullets need oxygen to detonate. Or it could be that Vera is not a conventional weapon as we know it. [[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== The African Queen ==

Can someone do a page for [[The African Queen]] (1951)? I tried, but my DVD screwed up and I'd really like to see that film on this site. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 19:22, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

== Not allowing PNG's ==

Someone noted that if we're discouraging uploading of PNG files, then it should be removed as an acceptable format on the upload page. This has been asked in the forum, but is there a way to do that? Is there a way to just restrict the uploading of files to just JPG's only? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:02, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

== Another question ==

Would whoever is putting screen used guns on their main page please stop? Screen used gun pictures belong in their discussion pages under "Additional Varients". --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 04:29, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

== Satchel charges ==

We've all seen these in movies or video games, or even on Mail Call with R. Lee Eremy. Designs and explosives charges vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, with field versions being cobbled together from whatever's on hand. But as far as the satchel charges built for use by the American military concerned, is there any information available on how they were made? Was there an official type of carrying bag that received a military designation and was ordered up under a governmental work contract? [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

== Colt Ad ==

haha, look at this ad for Colt from 1933 --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 22:11, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:Works for me. Those prices really work for me. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 03:29, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

::I see someone else reads Cracked.com.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 04:04, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Colt ad.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

::You sure this AD is from 1933? 84 dollars for that Colt Woodsman translates into $1,390.00 in 2010 dollars. That Colt Officer's Model in .22 LR is priced $79.00 which is $1,310.00 now. Actually dollar for dollar, they are more EXPENSIVE relative to what people earned than today's prices. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:52, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
:::I did a search in google, and I ran across two sources that say the ad is from 1939. If you run it through the inflation calculator though, the prices are still a bit high. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:42, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

== Tomorrow When the War Began ==

Hi, if possible could someone do an article on the Australian film Tomorrow When the War Began, it's pretty much the Australian version of Red Dawn but I'm not too familiar with the weapons or how to even create a page to do it myself, cheers.

The guns I saw used were the Fold stock AK-47's, AKM's, .22 Caliber rifles, a handgun I think to be is the H&K USP, some light Machineguns and the warhead's of the RPG-7. (I'm an American-Pinoy who watched it in NZ)

==Ban a Wangchao today?==
So how many Wangchaos do we have to ban? Some spammer is up to Wangchao58. He's like Doctor Who. He doesn't die. He just comes back as yet another incarnation. You know you haven't lived unless you've banned a user named "Wangchao_ _ "[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:43, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
:i dont get to ban people. :( lol -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

==Ads now?==
Stupid question time: are the ads supposed to be here? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 00:10, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

: http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=1232&page=4 --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 11:55, 3 January 2011 (UTC).

==So, two questions==

First of all, how do you upload pictures to this site, for those of us who are wiki-impaired. Secondly, I'm trying to start a page up for The Cape, that new TV series, and I wanted to know if anyone would be willing to help me, as it'll be my first page. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:45, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

: First go to the [[Special:Upload]] page. Click on "upload" and select the file you want to upload. Make sure that all images you upload are .jpgs, the .png format isn't allowed per the rules. Now, insert the name of the Film/Television Show/other Medium, that the page you are working on belongs to the Summary section like this: <nowiki>[[A-Team, The|The A-Team]]</nowiki>. Note that you can have the link display a different text than the one of the page you are linking to. The '''The A-Team''' for example is called "A-Team, The", but since that isnt exactly fun to read I used the | to put the "The" were it belongs. Then you need the appropriate category. These can be found here:[[:Category:Images]]. Insert them just like you inserted the title. Afterwards the only thing left is to upload the image. Once that is done, insert it into your page like this:

<nowiki>

[[Image:KingdomHK912.jpg|thumb|400px|right|Description]]

</nowiki>

:The first part is obviously your file name. Thumb forces the wiki to reformat it into a thumbnail of (here) 400 pixels. Instead of "right", there are also "left" and "center". But the only allowed page formatting is "left" for screenshots and "right" for the movie poster. Replace Description with an appropriate summary of the images contents. It´s also useful for inserting trivia notes and the likes.

: And as for starting your own page: Simply copy the basic layout from already existing pages and analyse what you see. [[Rules%2C_Standards_and_Principles|Rules, Standards and Principles]] also contains a lot of basic tips and guidelines that´ll help you get started. Once you feel like delving deeper into the wonders of wiki formatting: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki . I hope that helped. If you have any more questions, just put them up here on Talk:Main Page. The admins and mods usually give this place a lot of attention. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 06:56, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

== What caliber is this? ==

Whilst capping for the [[Red Cap]] page I came across this shot of a L85A1 being reloaded on the firing range:
[[Image:L85a1_100_2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Sgt McDonagh ([[Tamzin Outhwaite]]) reloads her rifle at the range.]]
Clearly the rounds in the magazine are neither live nor blank 5.56mm rounds, as they are rounded rather than spitzer bullets, and they are overall shorter/fatter. Also, there is some kind of spacer fitted at the front of the magazine to accommodate the shorter rounds. Regardless, the fact that it is firing a different round is bizarre to me, as have never heard of any SA80s firing anything other than 5.56mm other than a rare few converted to .22LR for training. Has anyone ever seen this type of round before, or explain why it is used in an L85A1? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:11, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
::They really look like the frangible rounds I've used before. These look like hard bakelite bullets, but they disintegrate when hitting any surface harder than they are. THUS they are still lethal, but they don't over penetrate. I remember some dude on the internet squawking because one of the frangible .223 training rounds he was testing punched through 8 1" thick soft pine boards. OF course they would They're not "non-lethal" rounds. They're plenty lethal. But they're designed not to overpenetrate, so something like sheet metal or thick plywood would turn these rounds to dust. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:52, 10 May 2011 (CDT)
::P.S. of course they could just be really crappy looking dummy rounds that the props department came up with..... I've seen dummy .30 CARBINE rounds used in an M14 magazine when the director (at the last minute) wanted a shot of the magazine before it was loaded and he did NOT want to see the crimped blanks. Doh! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:54, 10 May 2011 (CDT)

== television series from 1993 ==

in 1993 there was a television show starring Nick Mancuso.
He was a hitman with all kinds of cool looking guns, and he drove a corvette.
The show was called "matrix".
i am suprised to find nothing from that show here at imfdb.

-Max

::Why are you surprised Max? (1) the show has NOT been rebroadcast with any sort of regularity. Sure I used to watch it all the time when it was on and once during a Sci Fi channel run, but I haven't seen it since. and (2) It's not out on DVD. So exactly how are we supposed to do a page on the show? I for one would love to do pages on TONS of shows, but the jerks who own the rights won't release them on DVD. :( Shame. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:16, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this show is not available on DVD. I believe that there's some clips on Youtube. Another interesting bit of trivia is that [[Carrie-Anne Moss]] was also on the show. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

== Trivia on the Front Page ==

I just saw this bit of trivia on the main page today:

"... that a lot of television series substitute the M249 for visually modified Daewoo K3 machine guns? "

Shouldn't that instead read "...M249 _with_ visually modified Daewoo..."?

- Jeff
:I fixed it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:11, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
::Sweet deal. -Jeff

== Harrington & Richardson Pistol ==

I found this little pistol on Arundel Militaria.com, the site calls it a "Harrington & Richardson .32 Semi-Automatic Pistol", but doesn't give the exact name. Can anyone here tell me? --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 11:04, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
[[Image:Harrington & Richardson.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/deactivated-guns/allied-deactivated-guns/deactivated-very-rare-harrington-richardson-32-semi-automatic-pistol/prod_969.html

:I believe it is just called a H&R Self Loading Pistol. Have seen it referred to as the "Webley Type", due to it being basically an American made version of the Webley and Scott automatic pistol. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:01, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

== Modern Warfare 3 ==

Just to let you guys know, www.findmakarov.com has appeared which contains a countdown, reportedly until the announcement of Modern Warfare 3 in 5 days time (Next Wednesday). --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] 16:52, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

*It's a hoax. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 06:57, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
::It isn't a hoax, but it isn't for Modern Warfare 3. It is apparently for a "Call of Duty inspired project" from a Toronto based group called ''We Can Pretend''. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 23:29, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== Sarah Palin's Alaska Shotgun? ==

What kind of shotgun was the one Sarah was shooting at the range with what I recall had a foregrip for the pump.

== Pig Hunt ==

i think this site should have a page for the 2008 movie, "Pig Hunt"

:If you want a page for it, make it yourself. This is a wiki, making pages is pretty easy if you put a little effort into it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 04:02, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

Bullseye. Feel free to make the page.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:20, 11 March 2011 (MSK)

== Signatures ==

Not to sound stupid, but what's the (MSK) in this --> [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 06:44, 5 March 2011 (MSK) mean? It used to be (UTC) (whatever that means), and why does it say it's the 5th, It's the 4th where I am (GA). - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

: ''MSK'' = Moscow Standard Time.'' UTC'' = Coordinated Universal Time. ''GA'' stands for the United States State of Georgia and is that states code used by the United States Postal Service. At least I think so. Basically it's the Time Zone you are in. '''Preferences -> Date and Time'''. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 15:19, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

::Yeah, my timezone was set to "Other." Testing to see what it stamps this. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:26, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

== Problem ==

I'm having a problem with the site (it might be related to the new change, I'm not sure) but whenever I search for any Smith & Wesson, I get redirected to [[Smith]] --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 05:22, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

It works now. I just checked the search by copying and pasting what you wrote. It's good now [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 11:06, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

*Yeah, for a while yesterday it seemed "&" was an invalid character. Trying for any Heckler & Koch gun would land you on the page "Heckler," too. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:56, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

: Problem still persists for me. Going to the [[Smith & Wesson Escort]] page always sends you straight to the page on [[Smith]] --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 17:41, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

::Looks like it's happening again. XM8 page was working earlier but now dumps me straight on "Heckler," and Kane & Lynch 2 to "Kane." [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 18:01, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

Anyone else got the problem that the latest revision, discussions and whatever list is missing from the bottom of the main page? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 21:47, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

Yeah im missing it too, both physically and emotionally --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 23:16, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

: FYI Bunni removed it to "test speed improvements". http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=history --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 23:29, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

Can we have it back now? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 13:08, 20 March 2011 (CDT)

Yeah, I miss it too and I hope it's coming back. It was great because you knew what was going on instantly when you come here. Besides, the main page looks a bit too empty without it --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 13:46, 20 March 2011 (CDT)

It is a bit shit without it, unless you're looking for something specific the discussions and revisions is one of the main reasons I come here. [[User:Fitz175|Fitz175]] 06:20, 21 March 2011 (CDT)
::True dat --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 07:26, 21 March 2011 (CDT)

==Deus Ex: Human Revolution==

Hi, fellas. Just want to ask you if this game could have its own page? (The first game's page has been deleted) This game features a modified hi-tech FAMAS, MP7 and some more weapons. The weapons look like in Crysis or F.E.A.R. 2 and since those games have their own page this game should also. (I guess I don't have to tell you the history and influence of this franchise compared to the "new kid" Crysis....) --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 20:28, 6 March 2011 (MSK)
:I reckon so, the guns in the second game look alot less generic and made up than in the first game. From the look of it the SMG is a hybrid of an MP5 and an MP7, and the combat rifle does look like a FAMAS with a modified handguard and a few other bits. Granted they are not 100% real, but they are a hell of alot closer to real guns than most of those on the [[Crysis 2]] page. There is also a 10mm automatic pistol and a revolver firing explosive rounds in the gameplay trailer, but I don't know if these are based on anything. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:13, 9 March 2011 (MSK)

== The New Website Layout ==

This new website layout is seriously screwed up, i cant get to any weapon pages with "Heckler" or "Smith & Wesson" in the name, whoever did this seriously needs to rethink it.....

I second that. The whole thing looks a mess. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] 19:25, 8 March 2011 (MSK)

Can we go back to having the latest Discussions, New Entries, and Modified Entries on the homepage too? This new layout is a big step backwards in functionality. ''Wraith''

:We're working on it, but the software upgrade was a fact of life, we were running a seriously outdated version of the software with many security vulnerabilities. [[Special:Contributions/68.124.159.34|68.124.159.34]] 03:08, 9 March 2011 (MSK)

==Upload?==

I cannot upload any images since the update... can anyone confirm?? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 23:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

: I had that problem early on. I was first able to upload again around midday today (that's Central European Time mind you). --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 22:21, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

::I don't seem to be able to log in. o_O [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 14:56, 10 March 2011 (MSK)

== FN FAL vs M16 ==

I would totally choose the FN FAL. M16's give to many problems and is too weak. Any opinions?--[[User:Mikey|Mikey]] 22:24, 11 March 2011 (MSK)
:you can compare a 7.62semi/full auto to a 5.56 semi/3 round, either way FAL=more stopping power, M16=acuraccy. i heard alot of the reliability issues are being solved too.
In a way I really don't respect the M16 due to:

*The lack of reliability, M16's jam alot and could cost a soldier his/her life.
*Accuracy can do but it has little ability to stop a potential target(unless a marksman and can give a few well placed shots.)

FN FAL:

*Has good accuracy and is more reliable.
*The FAL is capable of taking out potential targets behind any sort of cover what so ever, unlike the famous 50. BMG Sniper rifles and other rifles(5.56 or 7.62)where one would have to wait for the target to "pop out" behing cover.
*No matter where a soldier hits his target with his FAL the target will drop.

Are you kidding me? Almost all M16/M4 reliability issues are a result of not proper maintenance or bad mags. Then you say the FAL has more power than a "50." or other 7.62 rifles. You are the epitome of a CoD armchair warrior.

From experience, the FAL (and the Anglo variations) will make a group 3-4 inches wide, and about 10-12 inches high at 300 metres. This is caused by the front and back sights being on opposite sides of the hinge pin. The front sight is on the upper receiver and the back sight is on the lower receiver. The play or wobble between the receivers causes the vertical dispersion. Talking to Australian Army Armorers, they said there were tricks to getting the SLRs to shoot. The most common was to use oversized pins and to never open the rifle unless absolutely necessary. The M16/M4 has both sights on the upper receiver, which eliminated the effect of the wobble between the receivers. ''Wraith''

Personally I believe that M16s are one of the most reliable modern rifles, any gun is prone to jamming under poor conditions, the M16 is no different. But this statement about an FAL being more powerful than a 50 caliber rifle, honestly I find it to be outrageous. And there is a difference between stopping power and bullet penetration that I don't believe you took into account. --[[User:Glockness Monster|Glockness Monster]] 23:10, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

This is a very dumb discussion, these are two completely different weapons, one's a 7.62x51 Battle rifle, the other is a 5.56x45mm Assault rifle. One's not better than the other they're just different. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:57, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

== How do I make a page? ==

I want to for a movie and video game. I do <nowiki>[[Category:Video Game]]</nowiki> then I put the game name right after it. I get "Bad Title" everytime.
:You may have figured this out on your own or maybe you tried it when we were doing sever changes and that was the problem. Did you go here? http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Category:Video_Game --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:13, 18 March 2011 (CDT)

==Help please==
Hi, can you help me with this WW2 flamethrower? Is this even a real weapon? I need to ID it for an upcoming page I'm working on. Thanks. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:37, 23 March 2011 (CDT)
[[Image:Unknown-flamethrower.jpg||none|300px|?????]]

*Flammenwerfer, isn't it? You're supposed to wear it sideways with the hose coming under your right arm, not that way up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:07, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Rainbow Six ==

Why are there TWO pages for Rainbow Six Lockdown? One features 43 weapons the other only 8 or 9. I think one of the should go don't you think? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:14, 26 March 2011 (CDT)

== M733 ==

I just wanna know the official correct answer for Colt commando M733. This site says that in Black hawk down use M733 and shoe the picture from the movie. The problem was on the m16/AR15 page this site also claims that M733 has M16A1 rear sight, but the one Black hawk down use had A2 rear sight. Which one is the official M733? If somebody can find the fact for me will be appreciated.
Thank you so much
:I asked this question also to another mod. The one used by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, I don't think it even has a short barrel. Probably a 14.5" or 16" barrel with a fake can (suppressor) slipped over it. I'm pretty sure the stock pic MPM took is a real M733. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 08:59, 7 April 2011 (CDT)
::The Colt brochure images of the 733 depict it with A1 rear sights, so that would propbably be he "official" version. However, it is my understanding that Colt manufactured these carbines from whatever parts were available, so there does tend to be some variation whilst still keeping the same designation. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:39, 8 April 2011 (CDT)

== How are Halo weapons not allowed? ==

So the EM-1 Railgun, a rectangle with a bunch of accessories glued on, has a page, but the BR55 battle rifle doesn't? The Battle rifle could pass for a real-life weapon system, yet we have the "holy shotgun" and "mouse's shotguns", which are completely fabricated, on the site? Hell, there's even a mention of that stupid nerf toy mockup rocket launcher from Hulk!

First of all, sign your name or username when you leave a message. Second, read the rules. The Rocket Launcher from the Hulk even if it is a modified toy, looks enough like a "real" firearm, a viewer may question what it is. Now with Halo, the developers themselves said they did NOT look at ANY real-life weapons when designing their guns, and that any resemblance to a real firearm is purely coincidental. -[[User:1morey]] April 11, 2011 4:59 PM (EST)
:Exactly. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:05, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

any one noticed that the sniper rifle from halo looks alot like a NTW-20.Why don't we have a halo Page--v 15:51, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]
:Yes, but we're not making a page that has '''one''' gun that ''sorta'' looks like a NTW-20, I'm really tired of you Halo fanboys always pushing to have Halo pages, Halo pages have been made and deleted at least 25 times or more. The reason we allow some very futuristic sci-fi games like say Crysis or Crysis 2 is because ''most'' of their firearms are ''heavily'' based on real firearms. BTW I am a big fan of the Halo series myself, but I don't push to make Halo pages because I know better. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:43, 20 August 2011 (CDT)
:It's not Halo fanboys but one troll. Notice the spelling or lack of it and how Immediatly they are pushing for a Halo page.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:24, 22 August 2011 (CDT)

==Just a note==

Could people adding new movies to gun pages that don't have tables consider adding the ''exact'' release date to all new entries if they're not going to build a table? I'm planning to have a crack at putting proper tables on [[Franchi SPAS-12]] soon, and it's kinda daunting to have to look up the precise release date of every single movie listed just to get the order right. Perhaps we could put day / month in the tables as well as year to make adding new entries in the correct order easier? Also, can we standardise whether the tables go newest to oldest or oldest to newest? I've seen pages doing both, and sometimes even putting titles in alphabetical order. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:59, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== A little help ==

Is there a way to change the name of a uploaded image? Cause I named a image "Nice Colt Anaconda" but I don't like it and want to change it. Or do I have to delete it somehow and upload a new version. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:26, 27 April 2011 (CDT)

== '''''Question''''' ==

I am going to add an image that i just got from the net for the Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater page. but can you add pics in this website from your own computer? '''Please reply back!!!'''
[[User:Dangerclose96|Dangerclose96]]

== Screencap from PC ==

How do i screencap from pc for my pc version video games?
And how do i upload images from my computer to this website?
[[User:Dangerclose96|Dangerclose96]]

== Vandalism ==

God, I wanna shoot all these vandalizing asses in the face! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 May 2011 (CDT)

*There's only one, it's a pile of proxies or a botnet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:55, 11 May 2011 (CDT)
:: Great. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:00, 11 May 2011 (CDT)

== Guns chronologically or by type? ==
Is there a preferred way that pages should be organised, as in all guns in one chronological section or separated by type (pistols, assault rifles, machine guns etc.)? I have seen it both ways on here, so is there a nominal cut off point where there are enough guns that they should be split into sections? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:28, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

*I must say I personally prefer by type. If you're trying to answer "what kind of gun was that?" it's a lot easier to figure it out based on what kind of gun it was rather than roughly where in the movie it appeared. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:33, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

== Evil Dead + Evil Dead 2 ==

Could someone ad photos of the shotguns used in those two films?

== IMFDB on ipod ==

My computer is so old and slow that I often just use my ipod to access the site, but when trying to view pages with images, the never seem to fit the page, I'm not sure if it's something that could be fixed, but I was wondering if anyone has looked into it. --[[User:Glockness Monster|Glockness Monster]] 23:34, 9 July 2011 (CDT)
:Try going into your preferences and changing the skin. I don't know about iPods, but the site displays fine on the Vector (ie, non-mobile) skin on an Android phone. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:09, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

I couldn't find a skin for the iPod. But it's not that big of a concern. Thanks anyways though. --[[User:Glockness Monster|Glockness Monster]] 00:08, 15 July 2011 (CDT)

== The Howling ==

I'm suprised that no one has created a page for The Howling. It's like the most classic werewolf movie ever made.

== Some questions ==

1. What is the oldest film on this site (I mean release, not the first page made)?
2. What is the largest Movie page?
3. What is the largest Anime Page?
4. What is the largest Video Game Page? - [[User:1morey]] July 18, 2011 10:48 AM

:Not sure about the oldest page, but think it might be ''[[The Racketeer]]'' (1929). Longest Movie page is [[‎Terminator 2: Judgment Day]], longest Anime page is [[Black Lagoon]], and longest Video Game page is ''[[‎Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]]''. Just got these from looking at the [[Special:LongPages|long pages]] list, so these aren't necessarily the things with the most guns. In particular, the terminator 2 page has 32 guns but a ridiculous number of pictures (e.g. there are 22 pictures in the 1887 section). [[Punisher, The (2004)|The Punisher]] page is smaller, but has more weapons listed. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:05, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

If you're going by the number of firearms (explosives and rocket launchers excluded), [[Hard Boiled]] and [[Last Action Hero]] are contenders. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 21:49, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

I think most weapons in a videogame article is probably ''[[Project Reality]]'' which has a hundred and twelve. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:09, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

== Broken FA ==

I just saw the main page looking like this:

[[Image:Missing FA.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

I'm guessing that means one of the featured articles has some bad markup in it that's preventing it from displaying properly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:39, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

::I've had that same thing happening to me, all the time... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 18:48, 19 July 2011 (CDT)

::: That problem has been around since the [[User_talk:Milkovich#Blank_feature_article|dawn of time]]. Went through the page and tried to find any apparent errors back then, but to no avail. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] [[File:Milkovich Signature.jpg|20px|frameless|link=User:Milkovich|]] 04:32, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

::::I think the best way to find out which ones are broken would be to set it to display them sequentially rather than randomly and refresh the main page, noting which ones it skips. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:19, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

== Again The Howling ==

I know I listed it before but could someone please add this movie to the pages. It has like five or six sequels which is ridiculous, but dont get confused I just want the first one on the site.

You can also try to do it yourself........ ? Also sign your posts. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 14:45, 9 August 2011 (CDT)

I would... if I knew how! I dont spend everyday on the computer. This is actually the first time ive been on this site for like a month

== Ultimate Question! ==

Who invented the first gun?

:The first guns were Chinese 'fire-lances' which had shrapnel added to them; gunpowder was discovered by Chinese alchemists who were trying to create the "elixir" which would make people live forever. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:06, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
::lol, When I first saw this question a while back I was gonna say the Chinese too, but I said meh, I might be wrong. But I was right! I'm a undiscovered genius! XD ;P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 10:49, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== CIA ==

What handguns do the CIA use?

That information is above your security clearance, citizen. Now move along. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:08, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== Future weapons ==
No not the show,I was thinking about future weapons and I was wondering How would the guns of the future look like ,Bullpups?Lazer?High caliber? But i was thinking of just a couple of future gunz I created see my [[User:Gundoiler|My page]].Anyways what will happen to the guns from now?--v 15:33, 20 August 2011 (CDT)[[User:Gundoiler|Gundoiler]]

== Media with one REAL weapon ==

Can those be added or not? The ''Rules, Standards and Principles'' state that a media MUST have MORE than one weapon to qualify. Yet we have lots of pages with one weapons. I stated this on [[Talk:Rules, Standards and Principles]], but no one ever responded. Some examples: The old ''Doom'' games feature a double-barreled shotgun as a usable weapon. In ''Gears of War'', Miniguns can be seen mounted on choppers. I'm really curious, I don't wanna waste my precious time if the pages will get nuked eventually. Hmm? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 09:48, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:::Did you forget the exceptions to the rule? Please be sure to read the rules completely :D
::::''There are some important exceptions to this rule:''

::::''1) the firearm is identifiable, well seen and important to the story. A film where 'some character' wields an 'unknown revolver' means nothing.''
::::''2) it has enough screen time for any viewer to wonder what make or model it is. .''
::::''3) it must drive the plot forward and not be an 'incidental' prop (like something hanging on the wall in the background).''
:::::''(a) If it is in the background, it must be 'interesting enough' to merit someone asking the question 'what is that?' Thus if it has enough screen time and it is identifiable, it qualifies. If it is a random 'set dressing' or a 'shape' held by a extra, then it does not qualify.''

:::::''4) the single firearm rule only applies if the firearm is real. If it is an obvious toy or airsoft gun, then it does not qualify. Having a lone character wave around an 'orange plug' airsoft toy does not merit a page. If the film is filled with various replica or high quality airsoft weapons than can fool the casual viewer, then it qualifies, if only to shine light upon the fact that the guns are fakes.''
:::::[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 16:02, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

This is a really tough call. There are some films where there's only one weapon used, but it's a major plot point in the film. Videogames are understandably lame when there's only one real weapon. I would suggest a case-by-case basis. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 15:31, 28 August 2011 (CDT)

:There were a couple in Doom that looked reasonably real (the pistol and shotgun, though they were both actually cap guns bought from the local Toys R Us) and were enough to fool one of the guys who put the old page together (the pistol used to be ID'd as a Beretta). Double barrel shotgun is just a generic one, though. I'd say for one not worth featuring you'd be looking at something like '''Quake 2'' which only has a [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/GMCMA/Other%20stuff/Misc-Top30UniqueGuns-28-SuperShotgun.gif NeoStead-thing] (which is treated as a double-barrel pump action using an invisible forend) unless you count anything portable with six barrels as an M134 regardless of what it looks like.

:I think for ones like that we should just document them on gun pages with redlinks for the sake of completeness but not bother building whole pages. If there's interest in making a page or someone tries to, just turn it into a redirect to the gun page in question. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:58, 12 September 2011 (CDT)

== User: Cbeattie ==

Can I please have some help? Cbeattie is bugging the living hell out of me. ಠ_ಠ Just look at the "Terror Scoped rifle from The Saboteur" and the "sabouter 44 pistol" section on my talk page. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:33, 10 September 2011 (CDT)

== Deer Hunter "Michael's deer rifle" Win VS Rem. ==

This database states that the deer rifle belonging to Michael(Robert Deniro)Is a Winchester Model 70. I must disagree.

The rifle in question is no doubt a left handed version of a standard prodcution hunting rifle Prior to 1978(Deer Hunter Release) only 2 manufactures produced left handed bolt rifles, Remington and Savage. Winchester did not develop and market a left handed version of the modle 70 until the mid 1990's.

I would however like to hear opinons from more seasoned veterans of this board.

Thanks

== Elephant White ==

I suggest the 2011 thriller Elephant White to be listed in the imfdb. It features a lot of weapons and they play big part in the film. Characters also talk about these weapons. Some have special modifications and I'd like to read imfdb professinalish commentary on these.
There are even references to other films and their guns. This would make a good imfdb listing.

::I once thought of doing a page for it, but most of the guns were airsoft guns, so that was a huge downer for me. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 07:56, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::: Really? Thanks. This is why I use this site. I couldn't tell.

:::: I have a couple of unfinished projects that I'm working on right now, but maybe when I'm done I'll consider doing a page for it... If someone doesn't beat me to it. After all, Djimon Hounsou is one of my favorite actors. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 08:34, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== Question ==
Would it be okey if I made a page fo the new animated movie BATMAN: YEAR ONE ? Most of the weapons in that movie are quite well drawn and recognisable.
:Without considering if it it is worthy, it is not officially released until the 18th so if you have seen it you must have a leaked version, so should wait until it is actually released. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:01, 12 October 2011 (CDT)
:Okey thanks. --[[User:thejoker|thejoker]]

I would suggest you put up two or three screenshots of the weapons seen in the movie on this page to determine if a page is warranted. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:56, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

== Yugoslav Partisan films ==

I wish they were pages that features the movies with Yugoslav Partisans, besides Force 10 from Navarone. i'm talking about the films that were made in Yugoslavia back then. most of them featured an actor named Velimir "Bata" Živojinović. and famous Partisan films that he was in such as Most/The Bridge, Bitka na Neretva/The Battle of Neretva, Sutjeska, and Valter Brani Sarajevo/Valter Defends Sarajevo. also the majority of the Partisan films have the usual German WWII weapons that both the Germans and Yugoslav Partisans used such as, Karabiner 98k, MP40, MG34 and MG42, and some pistols that i couldn't recognize besides a Walther P38.
:If you want a page to be made for a movie, then screencap the movie and make a page for it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 23:44, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

== Movie Quotes ==

Is there any way to get quotes from the movie page you're looking at? If not, I think it would be cool if there was some kind of link to see all the best gun quotes from your favorite movies without going through some randomizer bologna. Any interest in that?

Isn't there already movie quote wiki? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 19:01, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

I was just wondering, since there is already the quote generator on here, if there was any easy way to link them up with the pages.

== Amazon Link ==

Added an amazon link to the bottom of all pages besides the main page - I'm just testing this out. I'd like to get rid of some of the banner advertisements, especially the left and bottom ones - hopefully this can replace the income. I'm working on having it not appear on Special and Talk pages. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 22:03, 3 November 2011 (CDT)

== Team America: World Police ==

I was surprised to see that this 2004 marionet comedy movie does not appear on IMFDB. Would it be against any IMFDB 'rules' if I created such a page? I watched the movie again over the weekend and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Most guns used by the marionets were indeed somewhat fictional but the creators really seem to have been inspired by real-life guns and I'd love to get started on an IMFDB page for this movie. If nobody objects I will get to work on this. Thanks in advance for your feedback, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 15:02, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:I wouldn't think so; due to the scale of the props, I'm not sure that the weapons would actually be based on actual weapons, just "moulds" of them. I've seen the movie, and I think that they are very generic, so I think that making this page would go against the IMFDb rule of actually identifying weapons. --[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 15:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The weapons are pretty faithful to real guns. There is at least a Minimi, M134, M4 with 40mm grenade launcher, MP5K (with the stainless steel Navy suppressor), MP5A3, SKS RPG-7 and a few different varieties of AK-47 (identifiable, such as Norinco Type 56 with pig-sticker bayonet and Romanian AIMS). These are just off the top of my head and from a couple of clips on youtube. Even though the guns obviously aren't real I think it deserves a page, as they are all faithful representation of real guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:55, 13 November 2011 (CST)
Thanks for your quick comments, I understand the initial hesitation. However, just check below screenprints and you will see that indeed the makers did their homework, maybe they even checked IMFDB! Commando552's memory serves him right!
[[Image:TeamAmerica-screenshotexample.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I agree that the movie contains a lot of nonsense but I am actually tempted to go ahead, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 16:11, 13 November 2011 (CST)
:And It will be deleted just like last time as the "Weapons" are just whatever generic 1/6th scale guns the directors could find. they are obviously not real. The page has been deleted before and will most likely be removed again. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:17, 13 November 2011 (CST)
::The guns in anime and video games aren't real either. The guns aren't generic from what I can see, can identify them all (more so than some of the guns on pages like [[Crysis 2]]). If mods so no then fair enough, but I think it should have a page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:57, 13 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Main Page

2011-10-28T19:12:17Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Movie Quotes */ new section

Talk:Uncharted: Drake's Fortune

2011-10-28T18:57:17Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Great Quote */

This page needs some serious improvements, especially in-game screen caps. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:26, 26 April 2011 (CDT)

==Drake's Gun==
I thought his gun was a Makarov? LOL! What have the designers done?

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/19/you-too-can-buy-drakes-gun-from-uncharted/

The gun Drake is holding in the pic is definately a Makarov --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 15:30, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Roman's Revolver ==

I'm pretty sure Roman doesn't have a .44 because Drakes diary stops the bullet from killing Sully and .44 would not only have gone through the diary but it would have gone throught Sully as well. humanzie3

(Any idea on the ID of it then? It is definitely some kind of snub nosed revolver.)
it's probably a .38 special. Like Smith and Wesson .38 chief's special. humanzie3

It's a colt anaconda. the model 29 was an N frame and this thing is stainless steel and the shroud for the cylinder thing runs the length of th barrel. im not so sure S&W makes a weapon such as this in .44 magnum, but im sure colt does.

They could of course mean a Dan Wesson revolver of some sort.

It can't possibly be a 44. The bullet didn't even go all the way through Drakes Diary. humanzie3

any of yall ever thought that it might of been a smith and wesson model 629, witch is a stainless steal revolver, it is what replaced the infamous model 29

Sulley carries a 629, but not Roman. Humanzie3 is right the bullet couldn't have been as powerful as a .44.

Its a game, it doesn't need to be realistic, besides, even .38 special would pierce a diary anyway. -k9870

but he could have been shooting .44 specials, which are highly underpowered. - drh

If that's the case, then I'm thinking it's a Horton Special.-Neoindy

I am thinking it may be a Smith and Wesson 686, colt python or something similar with a stub nosed barrel, he probably loaded it with lower velocity .38 ammo. this is why it may have been possible to fail to penatrate the book. Book pages can be pretty hard on bullets. The old .38 loads are very dismal as far as ballistics are concerned. Back in the the day the mod. 10 smith and wesson (.38) was in just about every LEOs holster in the USA. Absolutely lousy penatration and terminal ballistics performance. Virtually no permanent wound channel is created with the old lead slugs. The advent of good +p hollow points have made this round marginally decent. Still though I would not stake life preservation on the performance of this round. I'm fine with the good ol' American .45 ACP.

Methinks it's a Colt Anaconda. It's got the ribbing above the barrel, and it is too large to be a python or a 686. --ConditionNone 18:10, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

== Great Line ==

:Nate: "Please tell me you have a gun."
:Elena: "Of course."

Talk:Uncharted: Drake's Fortune

2011-10-28T18:55:26Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Great Quote */ new section

This page needs some serious improvements, especially in-game screen caps. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:26, 26 April 2011 (CDT)

==Drake's Gun==
I thought his gun was a Makarov? LOL! What have the designers done?

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/19/you-too-can-buy-drakes-gun-from-uncharted/

The gun Drake is holding in the pic is definately a Makarov --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 15:30, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

== Roman's Revolver ==

I'm pretty sure Roman doesn't have a .44 because Drakes diary stops the bullet from killing Sully and .44 would not only have gone through the diary but it would have gone throught Sully as well. humanzie3

(Any idea on the ID of it then? It is definitely some kind of snub nosed revolver.)
it's probably a .38 special. Like Smith and Wesson .38 chief's special. humanzie3

It's a colt anaconda. the model 29 was an N frame and this thing is stainless steel and the shroud for the cylinder thing runs the length of th barrel. im not so sure S&W makes a weapon such as this in .44 magnum, but im sure colt does.

They could of course mean a Dan Wesson revolver of some sort.

It can't possibly be a 44. The bullet didn't even go all the way through Drakes Diary. humanzie3

any of yall ever thought that it might of been a smith and wesson model 629, witch is a stainless steal revolver, it is what replaced the infamous model 29

Sulley carries a 629, but not Roman. Humanzie3 is right the bullet couldn't have been as powerful as a .44.

Its a game, it doesn't need to be realistic, besides, even .38 special would pierce a diary anyway. -k9870

but he could have been shooting .44 specials, which are highly underpowered. - drh

If that's the case, then I'm thinking it's a Horton Special.-Neoindy

I am thinking it may be a Smith and Wesson 686, colt python or something similar with a stub nosed barrel, he probably loaded it with lower velocity .38 ammo. this is why it may have been possible to fail to penatrate the book. Book pages can be pretty hard on bullets. The old .38 loads are very dismal as far as ballistics are concerned. Back in the the day the mod. 10 smith and wesson (.38) was in just about every LEOs holster in the USA. Absolutely lousy penatration and terminal ballistics performance. Virtually no permanent wound channel is created with the old lead slugs. The advent of good +p hollow points have made this round marginally decent. Still though I would not stake life preservation on the performance of this round. I'm fine with the good ol' American .45 ACP.

Methinks it's a Colt Anaconda. It's got the ribbing above the barrel, and it is too large to be a python or a 686. --ConditionNone 18:10, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

== Great Quote ==

:Nate: "Please tell me you have a gun."
:Elena: "Of course."

Talk:Gun (VG)

2011-10-14T19:48:58Z

Acepeacemaker:

== Remington Creedmoor/High Wall ==

Don't they call the rifle Denton gives you a Remington Creedmoor instead of a High Wall? The two look really similar.--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 14:48, 14 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:The Dirty Dozen (1967)

2011-10-14T19:47:59Z

Acepeacemaker:

Actually, it was Gilpin who had his leg trapped and destroyed the antenna. Sawyer was manning the Browning with Lever. And Vladek was in guard duty inside mansion, instead of Gilpin. Just thought I'd mention that.--[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 11:52, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Whilst on trivia, the original person having their leg trapped was to have been done by Jiminez (Trini Lopez), but he walked off the film[[User:Foofbun|Foofbun]] 22:33, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Acepeacemaker

2011-10-14T19:47:33Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Never heard of it */

== Never heard of it ==

I'm not sure what to make of your comment on the [[The Dirty Dozen]] discussion page. Have you not seen this movie? Please also sign your posts (look right above when you're in edit mode, the next to last button on right that has a squiggly line) --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:01, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

Sorry, it's one of my favorite lines from the movie. Donald Sutherland pretending to be a general. I'll delete it. --[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 14:47, 14 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Gun (VG)

2011-10-14T19:44:12Z

Acepeacemaker: Remington Creedmoor/High Wall

== Remington Creedmoor/High Wall ==

Don't they call the rifle Denton gives you a Remington Creedmoor instead of a High Wall? The two look really similar.

Talk:The Dirty Dozen (1967)

2011-09-23T04:18:50Z

Acepeacemaker:

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2011-08-25T18:34:47Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Springfield Operator */

[[Image:MGS4poster.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots'' (2008)]]

''Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots'' is a 2008 stealth-action / third-person shooter video game directed by Hideo Kojima, developed by Kojima Productions and published by Konami. It concludes the saga of the character Solid Snake (now known as Old Snake). Set in the year 2014 following the events of the previous games, the storyline takes Snake through a series of warzones where rebels are fighting hired PMC soldiers as part of an ongoing "War Economy" engineered by a mysterious organization known as "The Patriots." Snake's mission is to uncover a plot by his old nemesis Liquid Snake, now seemingly reborn in the body of the gunman Revolver Ocelot, and set on bringing down the "System," an apparently invincible computer network which controls the world.

'''The following weapons can be seen in the video game ''Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots'':'''

'''Note: Spoilers are present in some weapon descriptions.'''

__TOC__ 

=Overview=

[[Image:MGS4-Intro.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Snake admires the place he's going to keep enough weaponry to outfit a company.]]
''Metal Gear Solid 4'' uses a split inventory system where the player character, Old Snake, can equip up to six weapons, which are then available using a quick-access menu; this is explained as Snake's "backpack," despite that he is not actually wearing one. The rest can be accessed via the pause menu, this swapping explained in-game as the TARDIS-like depths of Metal Gear Mark 2, a foot-tall robot which seemingly has no issues containing more or less every weapon on this page along with enough ammunition to destroy Belgium. Snake's currently equipped weapons each count their weight towards a total for all gear; heavy loads will cause his "stress" meter to rise faster when he moves around. Only weapons count towards weight; ammunition is treated as weighing nothing. This gets bizarre with disposable systems where each reload is a whole weapon in itself but all except the currently held one are treated as weightless "ammunition;" for example, only one of the fifty LAWs Snake can be carrying actually weighs anything for purposes of inventory weight.

Weapons can be found in the environment, but often feature biometric ID locks which prevent unauthorized use. To remove these, Snake can access a "gun launderer" by the name of Drebin and exchange points earned for the "war price" of repeatedly collected weapons, allowing him to purchase ammunition, buy new weapons and accessories, or unlock already collected ID-locked weapons for use. Drebin is explained as having an inside line to the "System" which controls the ID chips so he can replace existing chips with factory blanks (the process leading to the pun of the character called Drebin saying he sells "[[Naked Gun: From the Files of Police Squad!, The|Naked Guns]]"), but in reality such an operative would quickly find himself driven out of business by rogue gunsmiths simply replacing the ID lock parts with the original mechanical ones and bypassing the "System" entirely.

The game removes the "Tactical Reload" option of previous games where unequipping and re-equipping a weapon would instantly reload it; weapons now actually have to be reloaded properly. The animations have an odd quirk: apparently between games, Snake has decided to start practicing the "Middle Eastern Technique" mentioned in ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' of always chambering a new round when reloading, even when performing a mid-magazine reload. Despite this being described as a pistol shooting technique, he does it with every weapon ''except'' pistols; they are correctly shown ejecting an unfired round when he does it unless the magazine was totally spent when he reloaded. This seems largely done to explain what happens to the "extra" round that was in the chamber.

The game features an accessory system for weapons, with certain guns able to be customized; this is rather inconsistent, with many weapons not able to receive any modifications at all while only a handful have more than one or two accessory points, the majority limited to either an optional suppressor, underbarrel launcher or taclight. The showcase of the system is Snake's signature "M4 Custom" rifle, which can accept the largest number of accessories of any weapon. Shotguns and most grenade launchers also feature multiple types of ammunition, and weapons typically feature selectable fire modes if they have them in real life.

Accessory tactical weapon lights are shown rather strangely in game; apparently Snake has a fundamentalist attitude towards light discipline and maintains it ''everywhere'', even in broad daylight. This means taclights will only be flashed on and off briefly regardless of what the player wants; the result is only really useful for briefly blinding guards if Snake points the light in their face at extremely close range.

=Handguns=

==Custom M1911==

Big Boss's highly customized [[M1911_pistol_series|M1911]] from [[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater|Operation Snake Eater]] can unlocked via entering a password. Being an unlockable "special" weapon, it deals more damage than the other .45 ACP handguns. The Custom M1911 can be fitted with its own unique degradable suppressor; it is not compatible with the ones for Snake's Springfield Operator.

[[Image:1911custom.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Render of Big Boss' custom M1911 - .45ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-1911Cus.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"1911 Custom" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-1911Cus-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads Big Boss' custom M1911, resisting his genes telling him to first have a three-minute CODEC call about how awesome it is.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mark22.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In a painting in Big Mama's church, Big Boss brandishes his custom M1911.]]

==EAA Tanfoglio Thor .45-70==

The Thor .45-70 is a highly accurate and incredibly powerful single-shot bolt action pistol (referred to in the description as a "hand rifle") that must be manually chambered after every firing. It is Liquid Ocelot's signature weapon, both in singleplayer and multiplayer; in the singleplayer story he only actually fires it once, and his outfit does not display it openly as previous game did with his revolvers. It can be unlocked and used by the player by either earning the Foxhound emblem or entering a code, and comes with a unique red dot sight; this cannot be removed, and the weapon has no other customization options.

[[Image:THOR .45-70.jpg|thumb|450px|none|EAA Tanfoglio Thor - .45-70]]
[[Image:MGS4-Thor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Thor .45-70 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Thor-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Facing Snake on the non-existent Volta River, Ocelot pulls his Thor from an unspecified location inside his coat...]]
[[Image:MGS4-Thor-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And prepares to fire the only shot he ever fires from it. Though in spite of his line, not at Snake.]]

==FN Five-seveN==

The [[FN Five-seveN]] is the standard sidearm for Liquid Ocelot's elite FROG special operations unit (FROG standing for absolutely nothing), and is also one of the weapons used by Dwarf Gekko drones. It can be bought from Drebin, taken from a destroyed Dwarf Gekko, or taken from a FROG by disarming them of their primary weapon and then killing them or knocking them out. Since it shares ammunition with the fairly common P90, it is unlikely to have problems with ammunition, and it has a large magazine. However, it cannot mount a suppressor, the only option being a tactical light. The presence of the weapon is a reference to ''Metal Gear: Ghost Babel'' and the ''Ac!d'' games, where it is Solid Snake's primary weapon.

[[Image:FN-FiveSeven USG.jpg|thumb|450px|none|FN Five-seveN - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Five-Seven.jpg|thumb|600px|none|FN Five-seveN on the item menu.]]

==Glock 18C==

The [[Glock#Glock_18|Glock 18C]] can be purchased from Drebin, has a 33-round magazine, and oddly enough, is the only 9x19mm handgun in the game. It can be customized with a tactical flashlight. The weapon is a reference to ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', where Fatman's weapon of choice (aside from bombs) was a Glock 18, albeit with an 19-round magazine instead. This handgun is also available in multiplayer.

[[Image:Pistol Austrian Glock 18 with 31 round magazine.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Glock 18C - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Glock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Glock 18C on the item menu.]]

==Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Phase II Prototype==

The [[Heckler & Koch Mk 23 Mod 0|Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Phase II Prototype]] can be found in the game in Act 4; its status as Solid Snake's previous handgun in the original ''[[Metal Gear Solid]]'' is noted. It is also used in the Raven Sword PMC commercial in the introduction, and is seen in the holsters of Meryl's Rat Patrol soldiers and Raiden. The SOCOM presented in ''MGS1'', ''MGS2'' and ''MGS4'' is the Phase II model prototype submitted for trials in the USSOCOM Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) competition around the later part of 1991, and not the actual production model Mark 23 Mod 0. It is distinguished by small cocking serrations on the front of the slide, which the production model, Mod 0, does not have. The Mark 23 mounts the distinctive blocky LAM under the barrel as in previous games, and can also be fitted with a degradable suppressor. The Mark 23 is the subject of a number of the game's "Easter eggs," including being found almost exactly where it was in the original game. This is the only place it can be found in the campaign, and it is never available from Drebin; the only other way to unlock it is via a cheat code.

This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is also the only firearm that the special character Raiden is equipped with.

[[Image:SOCOM.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Tokyo-Marui '''Airsoft replica''' of the H&K Mark 23 Phase II Prototype - (fake) .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk23.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mark 23 Phase II Prototype on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk23-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Old Snake:''' ''"Just like old times . . . "'' Old Snake holds his Mark 23 Phase II Prototype as he stands in front of Shadow Moses Island's tank hangar and remembers the good old days.]]
[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny Sasaki (who actually uses a GSR) and the other members of the Rat Patrol have "holster stuffers" that resemble Mark 23, save for Meryl who for reasons best known to herself just wears the empty holster. The model used is fairly inaccurate for a Mark 23, having a metallic tang like a Desert Eagle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk23-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Raiden uses the same holster model except in black, though he's always too busy using his sword and heap of knives to bother with his handgun. His cybernetic body makes him look pretty cool until you get to his feet which have high heels for reasons only known to Konami.]]

==IMI Desert Eagle Mark XIX==

The [[Desert Eagle]], simply called the "D.E." is used by Meryl Silverburgh ingame. It can be purchased from Drebin, or occasionally picked up from the "Dwarf Gekko" drones (who amazingly have the strength to fire it accurately from one undersized mechanical hand). A 10-inch barreled variant with a scope can be unlocked, and is also used by Meryl. A bizarre glitch is that when Snake reloads the long-barrel Desert Eagle, rather than just holding a magazine he is holding an entire second gun in his other hand. Additionally, there is a second glitch where Meryl's slide will lock back and she will not play the reload animation. There may or may not be a round loaded when the second glitch happens; you can't see her remaining rounds so it's hard to tell.

This weapon is available in the game's multiplayer mode, Metal Gear Online. Players using Meryl's character online who equip a standard Desert Eagle in the pistol slot and the long-barreled variant in the primary weapon slot will allow her to switch from one gun to another when the first is empty, without ever pausing to reload.

[[Image:Desert-Eagle.jpeg|thumb|450px|none|IMI Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Desert Eagle on the item menu. Note Magnum Research's new barrel with a picatinny rail. The rail cannot be used on this version, however.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl's special 10"-barreled Desert Eagle with a scope on the item menu.]]
[[File:MerylDEMGS4-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl aims her Desert Eagle at Old Snake upon first encountering him. Despite likely wearing her balaclava up until this point, she removes it and does not use it for the rest of the game. The Meryl special character in multiplayer, however, can remove and re-don her balaclava at any time, as can Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl holds her regular Desert Eagle in the Advent Palace. She tends to use the normal one indoors, saving the 10-inch scoped version for outdoors. This relatively sensible choice doesn't really mitigate the bigger issue of using a pair of hand-cannons in the first place.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Desert Eagle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then re-Deagles his long-barreled Desert Eagle. This error is most likely caused by forgetting to separate the magazine and weapon objects in the game's files. Meryl's character in Metal Gear Online does not possess this glitch when reloading this weapon on its own.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The first sight of Meryl's specially modified Desert Eagle is, oddly enough, on a monitor in the back of Drebin's Stryker.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|By only carrying two Desert Eagles, Meryl fails "rifleman" on two counts, though she might make a passable futuristic pistolier. Note the unusual holster necessitated by her 10"-barrel Desert Eagle's scope mount.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As the "System" shuts down for the first time, everyone except Johnny Sasaki suffers a psychological breakdown; this includes Meryl, who drops her long-barrel Desert Eagle as she collapses.]]
[[File:MGS4DesertEagleLongBarrel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Screaming Mantis forces Meryl to hold her long-barreled Desert Eagle to her head, which is a reference to the original [[Metal Gear Solid]] when Psycho Mantis did the same thing to Meryl.]]
[[File:MGS4DE-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl fires her Desert Eagle at FROG soldiers inside Outer Haven.]]
[[File:MGS4DE-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl and Johnny fire a brace of handguns at the FROGs, Meryl wielding her standard and long barreled DEs, while Johnny fires a DE he got from Drebin along with his SIG-Sauer GSR.]]

== Luger P08 "Artillery Model" ==

During the bizarre live-action introduction sequences, one of the channels shows a PMC advertisement with two people in Middle Eastern-style robes hovering in mid-air as the camera circles around them. The one in white is armed with a long-barreled "Artillery Model" [[Luger P08]].

[[Image:LugerP08Artillery.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Luger P08 - 9x19mm. This is the long barreled "Artillery" model of the Luger P08 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the two strange combatants during the intro's PMC commercial holds up her long-barreled Luger P08.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of the Luger, with the toggle lock visible.]]

==Makarov PMM==

The [[Makarov PM#Makarov PMM|Makarov PMM]] is used by the rebel "mark" Snake has to track during the third Act, and can be purchased from Drebin. It is also the sidearm of the Paradise Lost resistance group as a whole, though they are only seen using it in cutscenes. There is little to be said for it; it uses uncommon ammunition, cannot be customized or suppressed, and really seems to only be in the game to give the rebels in Act 3 a suitably Eastern European sidearm.

[[Image:Makarov PMM.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Makarov PMM - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Makarov PMM on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Paradise Lost member draws his PMM as Snake enters their safehouse.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Makarov isn't exactly a Walther PPK, but then Snake isn't exactly James Bond, either.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Revisiting the Blast Furnace on Shadow Moses in Act 4, Snake takes on the army of Dwarf Gekko which now live there. Despite the name, the area does not actually contain a blast furnace: perhaps "Two Pools of Molten Metal Room" didn't have the same ring to it.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Makarov PMM.]]

== Mk22 Mod 0 "Hush Puppy" ==

In the third Act, a painting of Big Boss brandishing his M1911 Custom with his Mk22 Mod 0 (Navy modified [[Smith & Wesson Model 39]]) holstered is briefly focused on.

[[Image:Mk22 Mod 0.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mk22 Mod 0 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mark22.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Big Boss brandishes his M1911 Custom, with his Mark 22 holstered.]]

==PSS==

The [[PSS Silent Pistol|PSS]] can be found in several areas throughout the game or bought from Drebin; Drebin seems to have an odd fondness for this weapon, and it commands a premium price when found. It uses 6-round magazines with special "silent" 7.62x42mm ammunition, making it a lethal counterpart to the MK. 2 tranquilizer pistol (neither has a degradable suppressor).

[[Image:Pistol Russian PSS in 7.62x41mm SP-4 special purpose noiseless cartridge.jpg|thumb|450px|none|PSS Silent Pistol - 7.62x42mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PSS silent pistol on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Literally two dozen yards from the end of the first Act, Snake uses his PSS Silent Pistol to make a Praying Mantis soldier silent.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSS-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The threat dealt with, he reloads his weapon.]]

=="Race Gun"==

The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racegun Race Gun] is based on Strayer Voigt Inc's 1911-styled double stack pistols; it is not even close to a modern high-end race gun, with only the choice of ammunition really distinguishing it as anything unusual. The gun holds 19 rounds in 9x23mm Winchester which is a moderately powered pistol cartridge; the game's version, for reasons which are never particularly apparent, uses rounds lightly loaded with smokeless powder, providing barely enough force to cycle the gun's mechanism. In game terms, this means the low-powered bullets will ricochet off hard surfaces and can be used for the "trick shots" showcased by Revolver Ocelot with his Colt Single Action Army in previous games; the result is basically just a gimmick gun for showing off, and is useless in practical terms thanks to its low damage stats (which appropriately reflect the stopping power of such underloaded ammunition). Once the game is completed at least once, the pistol will be unlocked automatically. The Race Gun cannot be customized.

[[Image:SVI_Infinity.jpg|thumb|none|320px|Strayer Voigt Inc Infinity pistol - 9x23mm Winchester]]
[[Image:MGS4-Racegun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Race Gun" on the item menu.]]

==Ruger Mk. II==

An integrally suppressed, manually operated fictional variant of the [[Ruger Mk II Pistol]], that fires tranquilizer rounds and has grips with a built-in laser sight. It is given to Solid Snake by Otacon early in the game. After the game is completed, it is also able to fire fictional "Emotion" darts which induce one of the game's four psychological states (Cry, Laugh, Rage and Scream) in the target before knocking them out. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:RugerMkIISilenced.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Ruger Mk II pistol with professional Ciener Suppressor - .22 LR. This is a classic Silenced Pistol and this pistol has been seen in several motion pictures]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Mk. 2 Pistol" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Ruger Mk. II is presented to Snake using Metal Gear Mk. II's manipulator, Otacon seemingly having decided to give Snake two Mk. IIs for the price of one. Note laser sight grips.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the bolt of his custom Ruger Mk. II. This weapon is the successor to ''MGS2'' and ''MGS3's'' tranquilizer guns, and as in those games is manually operated.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After giving a Praying Mantis PMC soldier a hard-earned rest, Snake reloads his Ruger Mk. II.]]

==Shansi Type 17==

Used by Big Mama, this is a Chinese made version of the [[Mauser C96]], chambered for .45 ACP ammunition. The Type 17 can be fired in semi-auto or, incorrectly, full-auto (the real Type 17 never had select-fire capability), and uses a 10-round fixed magazine loaded with a single 10-round stripper clip. It lacks any customization options (not even able the option to mount its well-known stock) and also cannot be reloaded until it is totally empty. It can be unlocked by earning the Hound emblem at the end of the game, or through entering a code. While this is the weapon Big Mama used in her previous guise as Eva in ''Metal Gear Solid 3'', it is not the same Type 17, since that one was lost during the motorcycle chase. Big Mama uses this weapon to destroy three Dwarf Gekko drones which manage to infiltrate her European hideout.

[[Image:C96-10.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Shansi Type 17 with unfired rounds and 5-round stripper clips - .45 ACP. The game version uses a single 10-rounder, common for other C96 versions, but the Chinese copies were usually issued with 5-rounders which allowed them to be reloaded once five or more rounds had been fired.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Shansi.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Type 17 on the item menu. Note the undersized fire-selector borrowed from the [[Mauser C96#Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer|Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer]] above and to the right of the trigger; the Shansi Type 17 in reality is not select-fire and thus has no such switch.]]
[[File:MGS4ShansiType17-0.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Mama continues to use the method of "Bandit Shooting" that she utilized in [[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]], turning the gun sideways to clear rooms in a horizontal sweep. This is probably the only way to take the impractical "Gangsta" style shooting and make it practical.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Shansi-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After taking out three Dwarf Gekko drones, Big Mama strikes a pose with her Shansi Type 17.]]

==SIG-Sauer GSR==

The [[M1911 pistol series|SIG-Sauer GSR]] is the standard sidearm for all four of the game's Private Military Companies, and is also used by the small "Dwarf Gekko" drones. Any PMC soldier disarmed of his primary weapon will draw his GSR; the weapon can also be purchased from Drebin or found in a side-room in the first Act. The GSR uses the common .45 ACP round, but is inferior to Snake's default Springfield Operator due to being unable to mount a suppressor (though it does have the advantage of a slightly higher magazine capacity compared to the Operator).

This weapon is available in multiplayer, and if the "Drebin Points" option is not enabled, the GSR will become the only lethal pistol available to players who are not using unique storyline characters.

[[Image:SIG-Sauer GSR M1911.jpg|thumb|450px|none|SIG-Sauer GSR - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SIG-Sauer GSR on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Investigating a group of dead PMC soldiers in a side-room of the rebel safehouse in Act 1, Snake finds a discarded GSR on the floor.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The gun rack in Drebin's Stryker includes two GSRs, two unloaded Glock 18Cs, and in the rack further down a pair of SCAR-H CQC rifles and two copies of Snake's M4A1 Custom; beyond them is a barely-visible AK-102 and a pair of LAWs. Several of these weapons are low-detail since they are part of the Stryker model rather than copies of the normal model. The two boxes between the pistol and rifle racks are the generic model for "custom parts" and are used for both weapon accessories and accessory weapons such as the GP-30 and Masterkey.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As the system breaks down at the end of the first Act, a PMC soldier equipped with a GSR in his leg holster attempts to give Snake a hug. Note also the two large pouches for M67 hand grenades on his belt.]]
[[File:MGS4SIGGSR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny fires his GSR at FROG soldiers onboard Outer Haven.]]
[[File:MGS4SIGGSR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl picks up Johnny's GSR and fires it after he is wounded.]]
[[File:MGS4SIGGSR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mei Ling, Captain of the USS Missouri and returning support character from the first MGS, cradles her GSR as her ship is attacked.]]

==Springfield Operator==

A customized [[M1911_pistol_series#Springfield_Armory_M1911_-_A1|Springfield Operator]] is Old Snake's signature handgun in ''Metal Gear Solid 4'', and the weapon he most commonly has equipped during cutscenes; it is clearly designed to resemble the custom M1911 used by Big Boss during the previous game, though it is by no means identical. It is given to him for free (along with a [[Ruger Mk II Pistol]]) by Otacon early in the first Act of the game; Otacon comments that it was never integrated into the System, hence Snake's ability to use it before meeting Drebin. The Operator has the ability to mount both a tactical flashlight and a degradable suppressor, being one of only two pistols able to mount a suppressor and underbarrel accessory (the other being the Mark 23), and uses the very common .45 ACP round. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:Springfield Armory TRP.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Springfield Armory TRP - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Snake_.45.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Old Snake's Springfield Operator.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Springfield Operator on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Otacon presents the Operator to Snake, with the suppressor installed. Oddly, it tends to not be installed during cutscenes; while this might conceivably be done in case Snake has no suppressors left, Snake has no problem using it when he has no .45 ACP ''ammunition'' left.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake checks over his Operator after being presented it, first unloading it and examining the slide, then the fit of the suppressor, and finally pulling the trigger to let the hammer fall on the empty chamber.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He's soon merrily testing it out on the Praying Mantis PMC soldiers.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Operator; note the handle of his Stun Knife in his left hand. He frequently reloads weapons with this in his hand, as a nod to the CQC knife-and-gun techniques in ''Metal Gear Solid 3''.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Encountering Drebin, Snake keeps his unsuppressed Operator trained on the Gun Launderer, not eager to trust someone who hangs around with a weird hairless monkey thing.]]
[[File:MGS4OldSnakeSpringerOp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aims his Operator at Liquid Ocelot at the end of Act 1, unable to get a shot off due to his nanomachines being interfered with by Liquid Ocelot's failed attempt to login to the System using Liquid Snake's DNA.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aims his Operator at Drebin's weird naked monkey-creature "Little Gray" as he wonders where it all went wrong.]]
[[File:MGS4SpringerOp-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Liquid Ocelot:''' ''"When it comes to CQC, I have the upper hand."'' Liquid Ocelot holds Snake's Operator on him after disarming him at the end of Act 3.]]
[[File:MGS4SpringerOp-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Old Snake:''' ''"One last punishment I must endure: erase my genes, wipe this meme from the face of the Earth. This is my final mission."'' Snake puts the barrel of his Operator in his mouth when preparing to commit suicide, a scene that is viewable right from the beginning of the game and requires completion of the game to fully explain. This screenshot provides a clear view of the laser activation switch on the slide release, and the Bomar-style rear sights.]]
[[File:MGS4SpringerOp-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unable to commit suicide, Snake fires the only bullet into random space. Note that the slide locked back on an empty magazine follower, despite the fact that Snake only loaded one round in the chamber and then pocketed the magazine. This means the slide should be in battery.]]

=Submachine Guns=

This category in-game also includes the "Patriot" compact carbine, but that weapon is listed under assault rifles due to firing an intermediate round rather than a pistol round.

==FN P90==

The [[FN P90]] is the primary weapon of Liquid Ocelot's FROG commando unit and is also used by Laughing Octopus in-game; since the FROGs are a common enemy in the game, ammunition is fairly plentiful. The P90 correctly features an integral reflex sight on the carrying handle, and also has three accessory mounting points, able to fit a suppressor, laser aiming module and a tactical light. Unusually for a game, the 50-round polycarbonate magazine is correctly shown as translucent, and visibly empties as the weapon is fired in first person. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and if the "Drebin Points" option is enabled, it becomes the most expensive weapon of its type in that mode, thanks to its ease of use and plethora of customization options.

[[Image:FNP90Side.jpg|thumb|none|450px|FN P90 - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-P90.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FN P90 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-P90-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Liquid Ocelot's all-female special unit, the FROGs, carry P90s as standard-issue; this is in part a callback to the Arsenal Tengu troopers of ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2]]'', who wore similar armor and also wielded P90s. As with the Arsenal Tengus, the gas masks of the FROGs are apparently fake and offer them no protection against gas-based attacks.]]
[[File:MGS4P90-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Close up on the receiver of a suppressed P90. Looking down while lying prone with any gun gives this type of view.]]
[[Image:MGS4-P90-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the "Guns of the Patriots" sequence in Act 3, a group of FROG soldiers on Liquid's boat manage the impressive feat of firing their P90s for twenty solid seconds without ever once being shown reloading, implying they somehow managed to fit 300 rounds into a standard P90 magazine.]]
[[File:MGS4P90-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A FROG soldier firing her P90.]]
[[File:MGS4P90-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Close up on a FROG's P90.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5SD2==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5SD2]] can be purchased from Drebin and is equipped with an integral, non-degrading suppressor. However, the tradeoff is that it is one of the weakest weapons in the entire game, and uses the surprisingly uncommon 9x19mm round. This weapon is available in multiplayer, but cannot be customized. The appearance of this weapon is a reference to the "Integral" version of the original ''[[Metal Gear Solid]]'' for the Playstation 1 console that was sold only in Japan, where it was available on the Very Easy difficulty and had infinite ammunition.

[[Image:MP5SD5.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD2 - 9x19mm, The one in-game has the older S-E-F trigger group.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MP5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP5SD2 on the item menu.]]
[[File:MGS4MP5SD2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights on the MPSSD2.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP7A1==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP7A1]] is used by several of the PMC operatives in game. It can be first found and used by the player in Act 2 and can be equipped with a unique red dot sight or the ACOG scope. For whatever reason, the weapon is depicted ingame as being distinctly inferior to the P90, lacking any option to attach a suppressor, tactical light, or laser sight (all of which it can use in real life). It is also stuck with using a low-capacity 20-round magazine ingame (intended for use for when the MP7 is issued as a select-fire, armor-piercing, backup weapon you can holster), instead of its more appropriate 40-round magazine variant (intended for use when the MP7 is issued as a primary weapon).

[[Image:Hk mp7 b-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with Hensoldt RSA red dot sight - 4.6x30mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-MP7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP7A1 on the item menu.]]

==Izhmash PP-19 Bizon==

The [[Izhmash PP-19 Bizon]] can be purchased from Drebin; the game claims it to be a "new Russian submachine gun," even though it was twelve years old when the game came out and is sixteen years old in the game's universe; the version in-game is not even a current model, instead being based on the earliest production model. The version in game is chambered for 9x18mm Makarov, which translates into a 64-round magazine capacity. The Bizon cannot be customized in the game, though it can be used one-handed during the motorcycle chase in Act 3.

[[Image:Bizon1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Early PP-19 Bizon - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:MGS4-Bizon.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bizon on the item menu.]]

==MAC-10==

The [[MAC-10]] can be purchased from Drebin or found in Act 2. It can be equipped with a suppressor. Unlike most depictions, Snake actually uses both hands and the stock in-game.

[[Image:IngramMAC10.jpg|thumb|450px|none|MAC-10 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-M10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MAC-10 as "M10" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M10-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires his MAC-10 during the motorcycle sequence of Act 3; apparently Big Mama doesn't mind him firing unsuppressed fully automatic weapons right next to her ear.]]

==Skorpion Vz 82==

The [[Skorpion_SA#SA Vz. 82 Skorpion|SA Vz. 82 Skorpion]] is used by Paradise Lost resistance members riding motorcycles in the Eastern Europe section of the game (Act 3), and is given to Old Snake by Big Mama in the same level. While called the "Vz. 83" ingame, the game shows it as being chambered in 9x18mm Makarov rather than .380 ACP, making it a Vz. 82. It comes equipped with a visible laser sight.

Its comparatively low magazine capacity of 20 rounds, low stats, and inability to be customized, coupled with the fact that FN P90s can be obtained for free much earlier ingame, make it arguably a weapon hardly-chosen by most players, so it's largely for the nostalgia factor in singleplayer (the very similar [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion]] made an appearance in Metal Gear Solid 3), though players can still take advantage of the fact that it's the submachinegun with highest lock-on in the game, being especially useful for one-shotting enemies during the Act 3 chase scene. Multiplayer, however, is a different story, as it is the only firearm in its inventory slot to be available free of charge (if Drebin Points are enabled) for non-unique player characters, as well as possessing the longest auto-aim lock-on range of any weapon in multiplayer modes.

[[Image:Scorpion SA Vz 82.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA Vz. 82 Skorpion - 9x18mm Makarov.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Klobb.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Skorpion Vz 82 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Klobb-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Mama hands Snake a Vz 82 during the cutscene before the motorcycle escape sequence.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Klobb-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As usual, he inspects it before accepting.]]

=Shotguns=

Note: All shotguns in this game can use 00 buckshot, shotgun slugs, or non-lethal vortex ring ammunition.

== Knight's Armament MasterKey ==

A [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]] is available as an attachment for the "M4 Custom" only, and can be found in the hands of PMC search teams; curiously, they have it equipped in a standalone configuration with a pistol grip and stock, raising the question of why they aren't just using a regular full-size shotgun instead. The inferior tube magazine capacity and lower effective range would make it far less useful than a full-sized shotgun for general use, and for close quarters combat or door breaching a purpose-built short shotgun would be a far more logical choice than issuing a rifle accessory which needs to be attached to ''another'' accessory to actually function.

[[Image:M4masterkey01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M4A1 carbine with Masterkey shotgun - 5.56mm & 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Kacsbsa.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Masterkey in standalone configuration.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4CMasterkey.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Masterkey accessory shotgun mounted to the M4 Custom on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Masterkey.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Old Snake's M4 Custom in full recoil as he uses his Masterkey to ruin someone's day.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Masterkey-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Satisified for now, Old Snake reloads his Masterkey.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Masterkey-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Attaching an accessory shotgun to a standalone grip is rather like buying an iPod and then nailing it to the side of a desktop PC.]]

==Remington 870 Custom==

A heavily customized [[Remington 870]] can be purchased from Drebin or found in the second Act; it comes with a Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight as standard, and can also be equipped with an Aimpoint red dot sight or ACOG scope; if neither is fitted, it will have no sights at all, with Snake simply aiming along the top mounted-rail. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is the only weapon of its type in that mode if the "Drebin Points" option is not enabled.

[[Image:Model870P 14inlg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Police "Entry Gun" with a Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight - 12 gauge. The version in ''MGS4'' is further customized with a top rail instead of iron sights and a collapsible stock similar to the one used by the Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-870C.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"870 custom" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-870C-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A FROG reels in confusion as Snake aims a pump-action RIS rail at her. "It's a shotgun, I swear!"]]
[[Image:MGS4-870C-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With the Aimpoint scope attached, the 870 Custom at least looks a bit more respectable.]]

==Saiga 12==

The [[Saiga-12]] can be purchased from Drebin. It is the only weapon of its type capable of semiautomatic fire, as well as the only one that uses a detachable box magazine (with a capacity of 8 rounds); along with very clear iron sights, this makes it distinctly superior to the other shotguns in more or less every regard. This weapon is available in multiplayer, but cannot be customized in the game.

[[Image:Saiga 12k-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Saiga-12K - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:MGS4-Saiga12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saiga 12 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Saiga12-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finding the Advent Palace hotel's kitchen infested with FROGs, Snake takes prompt action before an inspector shows up and shuts the place down.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Saiga12-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Having done his bit for the community, Snake reloads his Saiga 12.]]

=="Twin Barrel"==

A [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Short barreled Side by Side Shotgun (Sawed Off)|sawed off side-by-side double barrel shotgun]], that can either be found in the game or purchased from Drebin. For some reason, Old Snake is restricted to using it with a one-handed grip. He can also only fire both barrels at once, though this is due to the shotgun only having a single trigger for both barrels.

[[Image:SS311A sawed-off-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sawed-off Baikal side-by-side shotgun - 12 gauge. Similar to the ''MGS4'' "Twin Barrel," though the latter has only a single trigger.]]
[[Image:MGS4-shotty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Twin Barrel" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Shotty-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Paradise Lost member holds a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun on Snake as the old man breaks into their headquarters.]]

=Assault Rifles / Battle Rifles=

==AK-102==

The [[AK-47#AK-102|AK-102]] is used by the rebel forces in the Middle East section (Act 1), and is Solid Snake's first weapon in the game (next to Solid Snake right after the first cutscene after the opening). It can be equipped with a [[GP-30]] grenade launcher. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and if the "Drebin Points" option is enabled, the AK-102 becomes the cheapest assault rifle in that mode.

[[Image:AK102.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AK-102 carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK-102 on the item menu, fitted with a GP30 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the first Act, Snake only manages a short burst from his original militia-issued AK before it jams up on him, leaving him to discard it.]]
[[File:MGS4AK102-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires the AK-102 at Praying Mantis PMC troops.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his second AK-102. There are two slightly different AK-102 models used in game; the "hero" version used only in cutscenes has modeled bullets in the magazine, while the in-game is empty.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads the "hero" AK model, with a more detailed magazine.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Menaced by Gekko, Snake still has time to strike a dramatic pose. He discards this AK shortly after this.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake encounters his third and last AK-102. Finding it on the ground next to a dead soldier, he carefully checks it for booby-traps before picking it up.]]

==AN-94==

The [[AN-94]] can be found in a shack at the beginning of Act 2 or purchased from Drebin. It can be equipped with a [[GP-30]] grenade launcher. The game correctly simulates the weapon's unusual mode of fully-automatic fire by first firing a 1,800 RPM two-round burst, before cycling the following rounds at 600 RPM. While it is powerful and accurate, it features a very poor iron sight and 5.45x39mm ammunition pickups are basically non-existent, with only a handful in the fourth Act. Its presence is a reference to ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', where Russian mercenaries under the command of Sergei Gurlukovich were equipped with the AN-94 during their attack on the Big Shell; unlike its previous incarnation, however, the AN-94 in this game cannot mount a tactical flashlight.

[[Image:Russian AN-94 Abakan Nikonov 5.45x39mm assault rifle 3.jpg|thumb|450px|none|AN-94 Abakan Nikonov assault rifle - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94.jpg|thumb|600px|none|AN94 on the item menu, equipped with a GP-30 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94-3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Snake holds an AN-94 fitted with a GP-30 grenade launcher as he waits for an elevator in the abandoned Shadow Moses base's nuclear warhead storage building.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|While waiting, he amuses himself by using the hideously tiny iron sight of the AN-94 to shoot at some of the warheads that the US military left lying around when the base was abandoned in an extremely sensible fashion. Apparently the alteration to his nanomachines that prevented him doing so before is long past its shelf life.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94-2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Luckily, the lethal radiation leak this used to cause has apparently also passed its shelf life and the warheads no longer care about being shot at, leaving Snake to smugly reload his weapon.]]

== AKS-74U ==

During the bizarre live-action introduction sequences, one of the channels shows a PMC advertisement with two people in Middle Eastern-style robes hovering in mid-air as the camera circles around them. The one in black is armed with an [[AK-74#AKS-74U|AKS-74U]].

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U (also referred to as the "AKSU" or 'Krinkov') - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AKS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A strangely-dressed pair of live-action combatants duel in the air, one holding an AKS-74U.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A second shot of the AKS-74U. This seems to be one of those adverts where nobody can actually figure out what the product was after seeing it.]]

== FAMAS ==

The [[FAMAS]] is not usable in the game, but appears in flashbacks to ''Metal Gear Solid'', as well as the brief "nightmare" sequence of ''MGS1'' gameplay.

[[Image:FAMAS F2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS-G1 - 5.56x45mm. Older version of the G2 with magazine and magazine release system from FAMAS F1]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAMAS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Meryl Silverburgh holds a FAMAS on Solid Snake during a flashback to the first game.]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAMAS-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|During the nightmare sequence at the start of Act 4, Snake is treated to some authentic ''MGS1'' gameplay, with the guards still armed with their low-detail FAMAS-G1s as in the original. Note the screen border; this is authentic, and suggests this sequence is the actual PS1 code being run in emulation mode by the PS3.]]

==FN FAL==

The [[FN FAL]], labeled the FAL Carbine, is seen in the hands of the rebel forces in the Eastern Europe section of the game (Act 3). It can be purchased from Drebin like most other firearms in the game. Its battle rifle cartridge makes it more powerful shot-for-shot than the ingame assault rifles, and its low rate of fire combined with the long range of its round allows effective full-auto fire from a much longer range, but it can't be customized.

[[Image:FN FAL 50 00.jpg|thumb|450px|none|FN FAL - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAL.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FN FAL on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAL-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Having knocked out several Paradise Lost members, Snake brandishes a FAL he took from one and his Stun Knife, preparing to lay some CQC down.]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAL-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Paradise Lost group prepare to move out as Big Mama delivers a ridiculous speech about how first-person shooter games have trained her "children" to be soldiers. Good thing it's not third-person stealth games that did that.]]

==FN SCAR-H CQC==

The short-barreled CQC variant of the [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|FN SCAR-H]], referred to under its SOCOM "Mk. 17" designation, is the standard battle rifle used by the PMC troops ingame. It can be found fairly early on in Act 1 (simply by killing, subduing, sedating, or disarming PMC troops) up to Act 3, and can be upgraded with various optics, an AN/PEQ-5 laser sight, a flashlight and one of two vertical foregrips; it cannot, however, mount either of the NATO underbarrel accessory weapons or a suppressor. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:2fff2537c0.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Third Generation FN SCAR-H CQC - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The FN SCAR-H on the item menu. Note the fire selector is always on semi-auto.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SCAR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his SCAR-H.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SCAR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Praying Mantis PMC soldiers retreat as "Gekko" unmanned vehicles are called in to take their place.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SCAR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|At the end of the first Act, Snake sneaks into the main base of the Praying Mantis PMC. Circumstances conspire to make this a slightly less bad idea than would normally be expected.]]

==Heckler & Koch G3A3==

The [[Heckler & Koch G3|Heckler & Koch G3A3]] is seen in the hands of the leftist insurgents in the South America section of the game (Act 2). It can also be purchased via Drebin like most other firearms in the game, but cannot be customized. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:HKG3A3.jpg|thumb|450px|none|HK G3A3 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Boatanchor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|G3A3 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-G3-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake uses the ACOG sight of his SCAR-H to admire the trigger discipline of a rebel soldier with a G3A3.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM8 Carbine==

The [[Heckler & Koch XM8]] is used by the Rat Patrol and other US troops in game, curiously still called XM8 even though it has obviously been formally adopted by the US military in ''Metal Gear Solid 4's'' world. It can be found by the player in a secluded area in Act 2, but cannot be purchased from Drebin. The version seen in game has an early XM8 flash hider with the rest of the features of the later model. It comes with a built-in red dot sight and can be equipped with an XM320 grenade launcher, but no other accessories. Meryl's team each have different versions of the rifle, two of which are not available to the player; Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki uses the compact carbine configuration, Johnathan uses the standard one with a grenade launcher, and Ed has the designated marksman variant. The standard version of the XM8 is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:XM8.JPG|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch XM8 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Xm8 rightmed.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Early Heckler & Koch XM8 - 5.56x45mm NATO. Note "duckbill" flash hider and lack of four oval PCAP holes.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SpaceshipM320.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM8 with an M320 grenade launcher fitted, on the item menu. Note it uses an early "duckbill" flash hider rather than the later model's "birdcage," but has the later version's PCAP accessory mounting holes in the handguard.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The XM8, as in real life, features a red dot optic as standard; here Snake uses it to take out one of the PMC soldiers guarding the power station.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the charging handle of his XM8 after a reload.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnathan has a lie down with his XM8 with XM320. This is what is technically known as a bad idea.]]
[[File:MGS4XM8-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US Army soldier tries to pull the trigger on his XM8, but the ID lock has been changed by Liquid Ocelot, rendering the weapon useless.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine==

The [[Heckler_%26_Koch_XM8#Heckler_.26_Koch_XM8_Compact_Carbine|Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine]], the shortest configuration of the XM8, is used by Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki, a member of Meryl Silverburgh's "Rat Patrol" FOXHound unit. While Heckler & Koch marketed this version as the "PDW" configuration, it fires a full-sized assault rifle round, therefore is classified here as a rifle. It is unavailable in singleplayer, but the Johnny Sasaki unique character in multiplayer can use it, and is the only player character in that mode who can select it at the beginning of a match or when respawning. In this mode, it retains the standard variation's red dot sight, but cannot be customized.

[[Image:XM8CC.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine with full stock - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8PDW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Old Snake:''' ''"You haven't even taken the safety off, rookie."'' '''Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki:''' ''"Careful, I'm no rookie! I'm a 10-year vet!"'' Johnny then bears out Snake's accusation by visually inspecting his weapon's safety rather than just flicking his thumb up and forward to ensure the safety is not still engaged or disengage it if it is.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8PDW-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The result is fairly predictable, with Snake ambushing Johnny via CQC techniques before turning Johnny's weapon against him and his comrades. Note that since there's only one model for the weapon used in this cutscene, the safety is ''still'' on.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8PDW-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny shows off the very "Future Force Warrior" look of the FOXHound unit's gear as he holds his XM8 Compact Carbine, including a backpack computer unit, a computer monitor integrated into his "shades," and a keyboard attached to his forearm. One very important piece of gear the Rat Patrol never wears, however, is a helmet.]]

==M4A1==

A customized [[M16_rifle_series#M4.2FM4A1_Carbine|M4A1]] is Solid Snake's assault rifle of choice and is given to him early in Act 1 by Drebin. In the first trailers, he instead steals it off a PMC soldier, and it is equipped with an EOTech sight. In the actual game, you can attach an Aimpoint red dot sight, ACOG scope, Surefire tactical flashlight, visible laser module, two types of vertical grip, Remington 870 Masterkey underbarrel shotgun, and an H&K XM320 grenade launcher. The sheer number of attachments, combined with excellent accuracy, low recoil and the abundance of 5.56mm ammo, makes this one of the best rifles available for a good bit into Act 3. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

Drebin makes a series of patently false claims about the M4A1 as shown; he tells Snake the barrel is free-floating ("of course") despite that the weapon's handguard is clearly not a free-float type, and claims the weapon is "popular with the big PMCs" despite none ever using it, and claiming it is "the official carbine model used by US army" even though in the fiction the US Army is shown to have adopted the XM8. In early preview shots PMC soldiers were shown carrying M4A1s, but in the finished game they use SCAR-H CQC rifles.

[[Image:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|450px|none|M4A1 Carbine - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4CMasterkey.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 on the item menu, fitted with a Masterkey accessory shotgun. Unusually for a videogame, mounting an optic will show the weapon with the sights folded down rather than removed entirely.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake is presented with the M4 by Drebin when they first meet as a gift to welcome him to the services of the Gun Launderer. Always one to look a possibly exploding horse in the mouth, Snake proceeds to thoroughly examine it. Note that despite Drebin's claim here, none of the PMCs use the M4 Custom at any point in the game.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake holds his M4 Custom, giving a good look at the rail handguard, flip-up sights and the high-detail magazine of the "hero" cutscene model.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After a minor diversion involving Snake's old nanomachines preventing the weapon firing (via a component he apparently didn't notice while stripping the weapon), Snake fires the M4 Custom.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the non-cutscene M4 reveals a distinct lack of bullets in the magazine.]]
[[File:MGS4M4Custom-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake prepares to squeeze off a shot a Vamp with his M4. Note that the M4 selector is properly set to Semi-Auto fire, but in gameplay the model selector is always set to Full-Auto, even if you select a different firing mode.]]
[[File:MGS4M4Custom-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aiming his M4 at Vamp. Despite being right-handed, Snake does a pro-job of setting up left-handed to remain behind cover, and makes good use of the wall for stability. Shortly thereafter he resumes his normal right-handed stance while turning the gun sideways, ejection port up, to fire at the PMCs guarding Vamp and Naomi.]]
[[Image:MGS4M4A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Old Snake wielding the M4A1 with an EOTech sight in early trailers; this accessory is not available in the final game.]]

=="Patriot"==

This custom full-auto-only AR-15-pattern carbine, seemingly based on an M231 Firing Port Weapon with the barrel significantly shortened so the whole weapon resembles a [[Rocky Mountain Arms Patriot Pistol]], is seen briefly at the end of the game. It can be unlocked by earning the Big Boss emblem after the end of the game or by a password. Its most notable trait is that it has unlimited ammo and never needs to be reloaded (the ingame reason is how its Beta-C magazine, misnamed in the previous game as the "feed mechanism," vaguely resembles the sideways-8 infinity symbol); it also plays part of the "Snake Eater" theme from ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' when aimed. It is classified as an SMG, despite firing an assault rifle round, which would in reality make it an ultracompact carbine. The Patriot cannot be customized ingame.

[[Image:Wm 1119951786543207.jpg|thumb|none|400px| The Rocky Mountain Arms M16-Style Pistol - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Patriot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Patriot" on the item menu.]]
[[File:MGS4Patriot-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "Patriot" being fired on the roof of Advent Palace. This is the only weapon where the Bandanna is unnecessary to accomplish having infinite ammo, yet the player chose to equip it anyway.]]
[[File:MGS4Patriot-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Boss drops his "Patriot" in front of Snake.]]

=Sniper Rifles / Designated Marksman Rifles=

==Barrett M82A2==

The [[Barrett_M82#Barrett_M82A2|M82A2]] can be purchased from Drebin, is Hideo Kojima's personal favorite, and is used the US military forces in Act 3 and later by Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki during Act 5, a curious weapon choice when it is clear that a weapon capable of extended automatic fire would be much better suited to the particular environment he's literally being thrown into. It is also exclusively available to the Akiba special character in multiplayer.

[[Image:Barrettm82a2.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Barrett M82A2 - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Barrett M82A2 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US soldier aims a Barrett M82A2 at Liquid's boat from the side door of a helicopter during Act 3.]]
[[File:MGS4M82A2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another U.S. soldier aims his Barrett M82A2 off the pier.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He is one of many, many, many soldiers and Marines aiming at said boat. Strangely, most of them aim straight forward even though the boat is ''below'' the bridge they're standing on.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|At the start of the final Act, Johnny Sasaki holds his M82A2 as he prepares to launch onto Outer Haven using the giant man-catapult which Drebin owns for some inexplicable reason.]]
[[File:MGS4M82A2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny aims his Barrett M82A2 at FROG soldiers onboard Outer Haven.]]
[[File:MGS4M82A2-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny fires his M82A2 at the FROGs.]]

==DSR-1==

The [[DSR-1]], a bolt-action sniper rifle in a bullpup layout, is used by FROG snipers and can be bought from Drebin; doing so is rather pointless, however, since Old Snake is automatically given an unlocked DSR-1 at the end of Act 2, after he uses it in a cutscene to free Raiden from Vamp's clutches. The weapon is loud and features a fairly slow bolt-action; this along with a lack of customization options places it distinctly behind the Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR and VSS in terms of versatility. The ingame caliber is specified to be 7.62x67mm, making it .300 Winchester Magnum. It is used by a few PMC and FROG snipers, the latter resulting in one of the game's more memorably unrealistic scenes in Act 3. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:Dsr1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|DSR-Precision GmbH DSR-1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|DSR-1 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the bolt of his DSR-1.]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the motorcycle escape sequence in the third Act, the game uses a "cinematic" camera any time Snake isn't aiming; at one point, a FROG sniper is seen firing her DSR-1 from a distant building. Note the FROGs place the scope against the side of their head rather than lining it up with their eyes; in addition, in this scene the DSR-1 ejects a spent casing immediately, without the bolt being operated.]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Mama reels from the FROG sniper's bullet. As noted above, if the player was using their weapon they will have no idea why this actually happened. Which is probably for the best...]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...Since apparently Big Mama isn't up on the whole thing where being shot with a .300 Win Mag is supposed to actually harm you in some way.]]

==Heckler & Koch PSG-1==

While not usable in the game, the "press X" flashback after defeating Crying Wolf shows Sniper Wolf's death scene in the original game, with the defeated sniper holding her signature [[Heckler_%26_Koch_G3#Heckler_.26_Koch_PSG-1|Heckler & Koch PSG-1]].

[[Image:H&KPSG01.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch PSG-1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSG1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sadly, the static and blur filters thrown over these flashback images mean this is the only frame of Wolf's PSG-1 where the barrel isn't distorted.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter==

A [[Heckler_%26_Koch_XM8#Heckler_.26_Koch_XM8_Sharpshooter_Rifle|Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter Rifle]] is used by the character "Ed," a member of Meryl Silverburgh's "Rat Patrol" FOXHound unit. It is never available to the player.

[[Image:XM8sharp.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter Rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8Sharp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ed checks over his XM8 Sharpshooter. Note Ed's weapon is fitted with the same Insight ISM-V scope as the other members of his unit, rather than the x4 magnifying scope the Sharpshooter variant is supposed to use.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8Sharp-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl, Ed and Johnathan demonstrate the capabilities of the "System" by taking down three FROG soldiers in perfect unison, using their shared senses.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8Sharp-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hearing a mysterious sound coming from all around, Ed and Johnathan apprehensively aim their weapons at particularly scary-looking parts of a derelict building.]]

== Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ==

The [[M14_Rifle#Mk_14_Mod_0_Enhanced_Battle_Rifle|Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ]] (Referred to incorrectly as the "M14EBR") is a modern variant of the [[M14 Rifle]]. It is used by PMC marksmen in-game and can be purchased from Drebin. It has semiautomatic and fully automatic rates of fire and can be equipped with a suppressor, laser sight, and flashlight. Its fully automatic fire mode makes it very useful even in short range combat, and the fact that it's available early on, combined with its extensive list of modifications, makes it one of the best guns in the game. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip - 7.62x51 NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"M14 EBR" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the first Act, rebel soldiers are shown trying to storm an urban area guarded by a PMC fireteam, including sniper / spotter teams; the snipers are armed with Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifles.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A second sniper team, with the marksman also armed with a Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR.]]

==Mosin Nagant Sniper==

A modified [[Mosin Nagant]] sniper rifle with a paratrooper stock and pistol grip can be purchased from Drebin in-game. It is the same rifle used by The End in MGS3 and is modified to only fire tranquilizer darts, though in this game this also includes fictional "Emotion" darts which cause targets to experience one of the game's four psychological states (Cry, Rage, Laugh or Scream). This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:MosinNagantM9130Sniper.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Mosin Nagant M91/30 Sniper Rifle - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mosin.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom Mosin-Nagant on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mosin-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake shows off The End's Mosin Nagant, which Drebin acquired somehow.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mosin-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the bolt of his Mosin Nagant, correctly shown as the turned-down bolt handle of a sniper version.]]

==SVD Dragunov-S==

The SVD Dragunov-S, a modernized, shortened version of the [[SVD Dragunov]] intended for paratroop use is seen in the hands of militiamen and rebel snipers in Acts 1 and 2. The weapon cannot be customized or mount any kind of suppressor, but the ammunition is relatively cheap and the weapon a semi-automatic rather than bolt-action, making it a middle-of-the-road weapon. The scope features an error: the number in the stadiametric rangefinder indicating the height of the reference target is "10" rather than the correct "1.7;" either that or in Snake's world shooting at 32-foot tall monsters is more important than shooting at infantry. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:SVD-S-Rifle.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Dragunov-S shortened sniper rifle intended for paratroopers - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SVD on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nobody had expected Snake to disguise himself as Venom.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As ever, Snake can't stand the idea of having a round lazing around in the chamber of one of his long guns after going to all the effort of reloading it, so gives the charging handle a yank to send it on its way.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As with the other sniper weapons, the SVD's scope has two zoom levels, the reticle slightly altering to take account of this. This is low-power...]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And this is high. Note the windage / lead marks have changed.]]

==VSS Vintorez==

The [[VSS Vintorez]] appears in the game, and can only be found in a room in Act 2; it cannot be bought from Drebin at any point in the game. It has an integral (non-degradable) suppressor, and like the M14EBR is capable of fully-automatic fire, though its shallower 10-round magazine can become a liability in close-range firefights. Since it uses the same reticle model, it duplicates the Dragunov's error of showing the reference height for the target as 10 metres instead of 1.7 metres. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is capable of firing tranquilizer rounds in multiplayer only.

[[Image:Vss1.jpg|thumb|450px|none|VSS Vintorez with PSO-1 scope - 9x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|VSS on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Out and about in Millenium Park, Snake aims his VSS Vintorez.]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake uses the scope of his VSS to help out his friend. "Well, that's a load off my mind. Thanks, Snake!"]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the VSS.]]

=Machine Guns=

As was the case in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]]'' with the [[Stoner 63]], player characters firing machine guns continuously will yell in classic ''"[[Rambo]]"'' tradition. Weapons in this category all have a strange ammunition display quirk; the ammunition bar only shows fifty rounds, with every tenth round marked white. This will scroll as the gun is fired and only count down when 49 or fewer rounds are left on the belt.

==Heckler & Koch HK21E==

The [[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_series_machine_guns#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK21|Heckler & Koch HK21E]] is seen in the hands of a rebel militiaman in the early portion of the Middle East section of the game (Act 1). In a conversation that can be overheard if the player remains hidden or has earned the trust of the rebels, he claims that it is an enemy gun, yet strangely none of the PMC troopers in the level are seen using it. The rebel militiaman also refers to it as "the very latest model", when in actuality the weapon was designed in the 1980s, some 30 years before the events of the game take place. It can be stolen in this location, or can be purchased via Drebin like most other firearms.

[[Image:HK21E.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch HK21E - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-HK21E.jpg|thumb|none|600px|HK21E on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-HK21E-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A rebel soldier brags about his "laundered" HK21E, ignoring several rules of firearm safety by waving it at his friend, even if his finger isn't on the trigger.]]
[[Image:MGS4-HK21E-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads an HK21E as a FROG trooper self-incinerates nearby. It's never particularly clear why they do this, so it's probably nanomachines. Note that the belt of the old drum vanishes just as Snake detaches it; this is the new drum being put in place.]]

==Kalashnikov PKM==

The [[PK Machine Gun]] is seen in the hands of militia and rebels in Act 2. at the time this is obtained, this gun is a good 40-50% more powerful at close range than any other automatic weapon. However, ammo is uncommon and expensive and it can't be customized.

[[Image:PKM-mg.jpg|thumb|450px|none|PKM with classic (most seen) version of the flash hider - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PKM on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake opens up on Pieuvre Armement PMC soldiers with his PKM, angered at the PMC's name being so hard to spell.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|His fury abated, it's time to reload.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rebel soldier thankfully realizes that Snake pointing a SCAR-H at his groin is just the old man's way of saying good morning.]]

==M60E4==

The [[M60 machine gun|M60E4]] is used by the PMC operatives in game. It can be equipped with optics, foregrips, laser sight, and flashlight. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is the only weapon of its type in that mode.

[[Image:M60E4-mk43.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M60E4 Mk.43 with picatinny rails, RIS foregrip, and ammo belt - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M60E4 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sights up a Pieuvre Armement PMC soldier armed with an M60E4.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake revisits Shadow Moses, bringing a touch more firepower this time.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Having foolishly alerted the million billion Dwarf Gekko which have apparently colonized the Tank Hangar, Snake does the only reasonable thing, whipping out his M60E4 and getting started making a big pile of scrap metal.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Werewolf PMC appears to be trying to deploy more Dwarf Gekko drones than a potential enemy has bullets.]]

==Mk. 46 Mod. 0==

The [[FN_Minimi#Mk_46_Mod_0|Mk. 46 Mod. 0]] can be purchased from Drebin; it is mislabeled as a Mod 1, but has the 12 o'clock rail on the handguard that is not present on the Mod 1. It features the same customization as the M60, but it's much lighter and fires the less powerful 5.56x45mm cartridge.

[[Image:Mk46.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Mk. 46 Mod. 0 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk46.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Mk. 46 Mod.1" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk46-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake starts to reload the Mk. 46 by pulling back the charging handle, giving a good view of the 12 o'clock rail on the handguard; this shows the weapon is actually a Mod 0. Despite its inclusion, there is no accessory that can be mounted on this rail.]]
[[File:MGS4Mk46Mod0-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake unloads his Mk. 46 on PMCs while atop Drebin's Stryker.]]
[[File:MGS4Mk46Mod0-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Mk. 46 in the hallway at Shadow Moses where the Cyborg Ninja's infamous massacre took place.]]

=Launchers=

==FGM-148 Javelin==

The [[FGM-148 Javelin]] is found in Act 1 and can be purchased from Drebin. It is erroneously shown as a SACLOS device requiring full-course guidance by the operator, with Snake discarding the entire launcher including the CLU after every shot and pulling out a fresh Javelin from more or less nowhere; it also cannot be used in top-attack mode by the player. Most of the time it is used by NPCs it is seen being used in an incorrect direct-fire mode; in real life, even shots fired in this mode start their flight with a rapid climb, while in game the missile flies straight forwards. The only time it is shown firing correctly is during Act 1, when a group of hidden PMC soldiers will fire missiles in top-attack mode to destroy a rebel BMP-3 IFV if the player protects it for long enough.

It is never at all clear ''why'' it operates the way it does; presumably, the lack of lock-on capability is to seperate the weapon functionally from the Stinger, and the SACLOS guidance intended to be reminiscent of ''MGS1'' and ''MGS2's'' fly-by-wire "Nikita" missile launcher, but this doesn't really explain why the resulting mechanics were given to a Javelin launcher rather than a fictional ATGM system.

[[Image:Javalin.jpg|thumb|450px|none|FGM-148 Javelin - 127mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FGM-148 Javelin on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake moves into position with a Javelin during the second Act, preparing to provide the rebels with a touch more firepower.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sighting up a PMC Stryker through the scope of the Javelin. In theory, it's possible to top-attack by guiding the round up and then down, but this offers no meaningful advantage over direct fire.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With the Stryker destroyed, Snake reloads by throwing the entire launcher away and pulling another one out of thin air. Apparently it doesn't occur to him to re-use the $80,000 Command Launch Unit. Note that Snake can carry up to ''fifty'' complete launchers; this means his invisible backpack has a carrying capacity exceeding one ton.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sights up a PMC Javelin operator during the first Act. With due dilligence, it's possible to escort the mildly suicidal BMP-3 past every launcher...]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...Whereupon a hidden Praying Mantis soldier suddenly remembers how the Javelin actually works.]]

==FIM-92 Stinger==

The [[FIM-92A Stinger]] can be purchased from Drebin, and is also found in the back of the truck in the Nuclear Warhead Storage Building, Floor 1, in Act 4. Unlike previous games where it was reloaded in a completely unspecified manner, in ''MGS4'' Snake will discard the launcher after firing and pull another one from thin air. As per series norms, the Stinger is incorrectly shown as a strange all-purpose missile, able to lock on to aircraft, ground vehicles, and even infantry.

[[Image:-0976t.jpg|thumb|none|450px|FIM-92A Stinger - 70mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FIM-92A Stinger on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With a determined look on his face, Snake clutches a Stinger as he advances on the Confinement Facility. As with the Javelin, being old apparently doesn't stop him lugging two thousand pounds of Stingers around.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake readies a Stinger as his previous one fails to take down a PMC helicopter. Reloading before impact broke the previous round's lock-on, leaving it to fly off aimlessly.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The helicopter is not nearly as lucky the second time around.]]

==GP-30==

The [[GP-series grenade launcher|GP-30 grenade launcher]] can be attached to the AK-102 and AN-94. It can be found in the Advent Palace Hotel in Act 1, in a secret room at the start of Act 2, or bought from Drebin. It can be used in multiplayer on the AK-102 if Drebin Points are enabled. The GP-30 correctly does not share ammunition with the other 40mm grenade launchers (as it uses caseless VOG-25 grenades, which are incompatible with 40mm NATO grenade launchers); in game, it can only use high explosive rounds.

[[Image:Gp-30 ak-74.jpg|thumb|none|500px|GP-30 grenade launcher mounted on AK-74 - 40mm & 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK-102 on the item menu, fitted with a GP-30 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GP30-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads the GP-30 mounted under his AN-94 assault rifle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GP30.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake finds a GP-30 in the Advent Palace Hotel. As noted previously, this "Custom Parts" box item is used to represent any accessory weapon or weapon accessory.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM25 Mock-Up==

An early mock-up of the [[Heckler & Koch XM25]] made for demonstration purposes is shown in game as the actual weapon. A semi-automatic grenade launcher chambered in 25mm, it fires airbursting HEAB (High Explosive Air Bursting) rounds, which function rather like the PK rockets in ''Battlefield 2142''; while the weapon is held normally they are simply impact detonated, but scoping shows a display with an always-on rangefinder. Pressing up or down on the D-pad freezes at the currently displayed range, with further presses adjusting the detonation distance up or down. It can be found on the catwalk of one of the control towers in Act 4, and is the only heavy weapon usable during the motorcycle chase in Act 3.

[[Image:Xm25 3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch XM25 mock-up - 25 x 40mm. This is a non-firing demonstrator which looks substantially different to the final version.]]
[[Image:ATKXM25.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Final XM25 for comparison - 25 x 40mm. The version in ''MGS4'' was clearly based on the former.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM25 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires his XM25 in over-shoulder mode; fired like this, the grenades are impact detonation only.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Using the scope, on the other hand, allows the HEAB rounds to be used properly. The two range figures to the right are the range to the object currently being aimed at (white) and the current detonation distance (red). It fires in impact mode until the D-pad is touched to fix and then alter the range. The launcher "forgets" the set range if Snake stops aiming down the sight.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his XM25 as he tries to ignore what Johnny Sasaki is currently doing nearby.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM320==

The [[Heckler & Koch M320|Heckler & Koch XM320]] grenade launcher is the underbarrel launcher for the M4 Custom and XM8 rifle; it lacks the MP7-style folding front grip added to the production M320, and therefore is correctly labelled in the game, even if it makes little sense in-universe for it to still have an XM- designation. It can be purchased from Drebin, and is also carried by some PMC members in stand-alone form in the South America portion of the game; it cannot be used by the player in this form. The XM320 has four ammo types; it can fire HE rounds, white phosphorous, stun grenades and smoke rounds. The attachment is also available in multiplayer.

[[Image:XM320.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch XM320 with optional telescoping stock - 40mm. Note the lack of a front grip.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SpaceshipM320.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM320 grenade launcher mounted to an XM8 rifle on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M320-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Assaulted by Pieuvre Armement PMC soldiers, Snake loads a white phosphorous round into the XM320 mounted to his XM8.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M320-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He stops being assaulted immediately afterward.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M320-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Later, he encounters two more PMC soldiers defending the Confinement Facility with their standalone XM320s. Thankfully, PMC soldiers can only use high explosive rounds in their launchers.]]

==M72A3 LAW==

The [[M72 LAW]] is used by a small number of rebels in Act 2.

[[Image:M72A2LAW.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M72A2 LAW - 66mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M72A3 LAW on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake comes across a rebel soldier with his M72 at the ready during the game's second Act.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Taking aim down the sights of an M72A3 LAW. Or rather, the sight; the weapon is incorrectly shown with the player's point of view in front of Snake's right hand, using only the front sight with the rear one not visible. To actually do this, Snake would have to be reaching back over his own shoulder with his right hand.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake discards a spent LAW and extends another; the ground model is actually a closed tube, meaning the tube instantly collapses as it leaves Snake's hands.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As Drebin moves to give Snake a shot of suppressor Nanomachines to let him use non-ID guns, two low-detail LAWs are visible in the weapon rack of his Stryker. These are low-detail because they are part of the Stryker model itself rather than copies of the normal in-world model.]]

==MGL-140==

The [[Milkor MGL]] appears as the "MGL-140," it is used by Raging Raven and is acquired by Solid Snake upon defeating her. It shares the ammunition reserve of the XM320, and can use the same four ammunition types: HE fragmentation, white phosphorous, "flashbang" stun rounds and smoke rounds.

[[Image:MGL32.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M32 MGL in desert tan finish fitted with Armson OEG reflex sight - 40mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MGL-140 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Raging Raven flies overhead during the introduction of the B&B Corps in the first Act, showing off her MGL-140 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Later, in the third Act, the MGL gets a closeup as Raven fires a grenade at the van Snake and Big Mama are escorting.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finally getting her boss fight in Act 3, Raven has her pre-battle speech...]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...During which, for reasons known only to himself, Snake doesn't shoot her. Perhaps he's marvelling at how this isn't even the weirdest thing that's happened to him ''today''.]]
[[File:MGS4MilkorMGL-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake collects Raven's MGL-140 after defeating her.]]

==RPG-7==

The [[RPG-7]] is used by the rebels in the first Act, and a large number of unlocked RPG-7s are present throughout the first stage, seemingly primarily to give the player some quick Drebin Points due to their high trade-in value. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is the only one of its type in that mode.

[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg|thumb|450px|none|RPG-7 - 40mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG.jpg|thumb|600px|none|RPG-7 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A rebel aims his RPG-7 during ''MGS4's'' first Act.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires on a Stryker using the PGO-7 scope of his RPG-7; the illuminated red dot at the aim point is obscured here by the flare of the rocket's sustainer motor.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake starts to reload his RPG-7, showing off the PGO-7 scope.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake finds a box of RPG-7 ammunition lurking around in the rebel base in Act 1. This is the generic pickup item used for all rocket launcher ammunition.]]

=Thrown / Placed=

==Airsoft gas charger grenade==

A grenade with a thin, smooth cylindrical body is used as the model for both the "flashbang" stun grenades and the game's fictional electronic warfare "chaff" grenades. This appears to be based on a grenade-shaped gas bottle for Airsoft guns, such as the one shown below. Stun grenades can be found throughout the game or bought from Drebin, and stun all enemies within a fixed radius who can see them while also causing an instant alert if there wasn't one already. The Chaff Grenade is treated as a "secret" weapon; only a handful can be found during the entire game, usually in out-of-the-way places, and Drebin never sells them; they are basically a short-duration EMP-like effect rather flimsily explained as strips of metal which are spread throughout the entire current area via magic. Using one temporarily disables security cameras, alarms and enemy radios, and temporarily paralyses any drone vehicles present. This lasts until the magic fades and all the strips of metal return to wherever they came from in the first place.

[[Image:DAM116A101.jpg|thumb|none|300px|EAIMING "M116A1 Distraction Device Grenade," an Airsoft gun gas charger built to resemble a hand grenade. "M116A1" is actually the US army's code for a simulation hand grenade with a paper body, used in training.]]
[[Image:MGS4-StunG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Stun grenade" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-ChaffG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chaff grenade" on the item menu. M363 is actually an obsolete anti-infantry canister round developed for the 76mm guns of the M4 Sherman and M41 Walker Bulldog tanks.]]
[[Image:MGS4-StunG-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After FROG soldiers knock a hole into the Advent Palace Hotel's bathroom, they toss a stun grenade inside, visible next to Meryl's head. The explosion, if looked at, turns the screen completely white; this can be simulated by looking to the right of this image.]]

==M112 C4 Demolition Charge==

Remote-detonated C4 charges are available during the game, and can be placed on the ground or objects and then detonated in the order they were originally placed. Precisely what attaches them to surfaces is not clear; the charges can be fixed to non-magnetic surfaces, and lack any obvious adhesive.

[[Image:M112.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M112 demolition charge]]
[[Image:MGS4-C4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"C4" on the item menu.]]

==M18 Smoke Grenade==

The [[M18 smoke grenade]] is usable in the game, in a default white version and four special "Emotion" versions which produce coloured smoke which affects the emotions of enemies caught in it; Blue for Cry, Red for Rage, Yellow for Laugh, and Green for Scream. The M18 is also the basis for the "fat" versions of the Stun and Chaff grenade seen in the ''MGS1'' nightmare sequence.

[[Image:M18red.jpg|thumb|none|250px|M18 smoke grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M18 smoke grenade on the item menu. This grenade produces white smoke.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18-Emot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the four coloured "emotion" smoke grenades available after completing the game once. This is the yellow "Laugh" grenade.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Faced with the rebel BMP-3 in the first Act, the Praying Mantis PMC soldiers decide that discretion is the better part of valour, one throwing an M18 smoke grenade to cover their retreat.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the Act 4 ''MGS1'' nightmare, Snake is surprised at finding a security camera in a top-secret base as he brandishes a "Chaff Grenade" based on an M18. Due to PS1-era graphical limitations, the grenade is bigger than his head.]]

==M18A1 Claymore==

The [[M18A1 Claymore]] mine is used as a trap in several locations throughout the game; as usual in the series, the mines use a proximity detonator rather than the real weapon's tripwire, although they lack the optical camouflage seen in the first two games which made them invisible.

[[Image:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|none|300px|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine]]
[[Image:MGS4-Claymore.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M18A1 Claymore on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Claymore-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake spots a Claymore in the lobby of the Advent Palace Hotel, deciding that practical jokes by the staff must have really got out of hand.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Claymore-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Luckily ''MGS'' series standards still apply, and Claymores are apparently both extremely hot for no readily determined reason and can be stolen by crawling over them.]]

==M34 White Phosphorous Grenade==

The [[M34 White Phosphorous grenade]] is available to the player only, and creates a burning cloud of white phosphorous which ignites enemies on contact.

[[Image:M34 2-1-.jpg|thumb|none|300px|M34 White Phosphorous grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-WP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M34 White Phosphorous grenade on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-WP-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake looks down the iron sight of his MP5SD2 at a case of WP grenades; this is the generic pickup model used by every type of grenade in the game.]]

==M67 Hand Grenade==

The [[M67 hand grenade]] is used by most enemies in the game and can be used by the player; it is also part of the armament of the "Gekko" bipedal IFVs, which can throw grenades using their manipulator tentacles.

[[Image:Baseball.jpg|thumb|none|300px|M67 hand grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-M67.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M67 hand grenade on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M67-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Drebin shows off a magic trick he presumably uses at ''really'' dull parties.]]
[[File:MGS4Grenade-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A better shot of the M67.]]

==Magazine==

A 30-round STANAG 5.56x45mm magazine can be thrown to distract enemies. One magazine is added to the stock every time a weapon's magazine is fully depleted; regardless of the weapon, it will always be shown as this type when thrown. Unlike ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', the reloading animation correctly shows Snake retaining the old mag during the reload rather than discarding it and then having it in his inventory anyway.

[[Image:MGS4-Magazine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Magazine on the item menu.]]

==Mk 2 Hand Grenade==

During the PMC commercials before the game proper begins, two live-action combatants are seen dueling in mid-air as the camera sweeps around them. As they move close, the one in white reaches down to produce a [[Mk 2 hand grenade]], with another attached to her belt. Mk 2 grenades are also used by Genome Soldiers in the ''MGS1'' nightmare sequence if Snake enters a vent during an alert.

[[Image:MK2 grenade DoD.jpg|thumb|none|200px|Mk 2 hand grenade|Mk 2 "Pineapple" high-explosive fragmentation hand grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the PMC commercial, one of the fighting-or-something women produces a Mk 2 grenade from her belt.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The grey object visible above the Genome Soldier's left hand is the fuze of a Mk 2 grenade. Since the ''MGS1'' soldiers always have a rifle in their right hand, they are shown pulling the pins with their mouth; apparently Big Boss' superior soldier genes include some for superior soldier teeth.]]

==Molotov cocktail==

Molotov cocktails, referred to as "Petro Bomb" in game, are used in place of grenades by rebel soldiers in the first two Acts, and can be picked up by Snake, functioning as less effective versions of the WP grenade which ignite on impact.

[[Image:MGS4-Molotov.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Petro Bomb" on the item menu.]]

==Valmera 69==

An Italian Valmera 69 bounding anti-personnel mine is featured as the "S.G. Mine," with SG presumably standing for "Sleep Gas." These contact-triggered mines instantly knock out anyone who triggers them, including Snake himself, though they can be triggered with gunfire or defused by crawling over them or picking them up with Metal Gear Mk. 2. Some are found in the Advent Palace hotel in the first Act.

[[Image:130705-004-42B40A6D.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Italian Valmera 69 land mine (centre).]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"S.G. Mine" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Apparently showing up as hot on thermal isn't enough for these mines, which are also concealed through clever application of a bright blue body and a big silly light on the top.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the unlikely case that Snake manages to trigger one, the entire mine jumps into the air; this is incorrect, as the Valmera, like most bounding mines, has an outer body containing the bounding body and propelling charge; only the bounding body should jump into the air.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake does not have time to consider this, due to the loss of his entire Psyche gauge and the resultant urgent need for a nap.]]

==Unknown land mine==

An unknown land mine is available as a remote-triggered sleeping gas bomb called the "S.G. Satchel."

[[Image:MGS4-Satchel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"S.G. Satchel" on the item menu.]]

=Mounted Weaponry=

==BGM-71 TOW==

The bipedal "Gekko" unmanned weapons are sometimes equipped with a launch unit for two [[BGM-71 TOW]] missiles on one of their weapon mounting points. These weapons are never usable by the player.

[[Image:Tow 07.jpg|thumb|none|400px|BGM-71 TOW mounted on M220 tripod - 152mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-TOW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake is ambushed by a "Gekko" unmanned vehicle crashing through a wall, equipped with an M2 Browning heavy machine gun and twin TOW launch tubes.]]
[[Image:MGS-TOW-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After Snake successfully evades the easily-fooled Gekko, they are called away.]]

==Browning M2HB==

The [[M2HB]] is mounted on Stryker APC and MGS variants and HMMWVs in game, and is also the principle dorsal armament of the Gekko bipedal IFVs. They can also occasionally be found mounted in fixed emplacements.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Browning M2HB - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the Praying Mantis PMC's "Gekko" unmanned vehicles, armed with a Protector M151 Remote Weapon Station and twin BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missiles. The Gekko also mounts a lighter machine gun in the "beak," but this is completely concealed by armour and impossible to identify.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Strykers in ''MGS4'' also mount the Protector M151 Remote Weapon Station, equipped with an M2 Browning heavy machine gun.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Pieuvre Armement PMC Stryker is seen at the start of the second Act.]]
[[File:MGS4M2HB-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake mans a Browning M2HB on top of Drebins Stryker at the end of Act 2.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the third Act, the Raven Sword PMC makes extensive use of HMMWV ("Humvee") light trucks armed with Browning M2 heavy machine guns. While the Young Snake disguise won't get Snake by these, apparently Colonel Campbell is allowed out and about after curfew.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The combined US Army / Marine taskforce sent to deal with Liquid Ocelot on the Volta in Act 3 turn up in force, including a number of Mark V Special Operations Craft, each armed with four M2 heavy machine guns mounted on the sides of the rear deck.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Liquid Ocelot's boat in Act 3 is a Swedish-designed Combat Boat 90 modified to mount a turret with what appear to be a pair of tank cannons. More normal for the class are the twin M2 Browning heavy machine guns mounted in a compartment forward of the helmsman's position, and visible here behind the FROG soldier on the left.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The gun cameras on Shadow Moses in Act 4 are based on the M2, with a shortened barrel and a rather undersized drum.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sneaks up on a mounted M2 Browning during the game's second Act. Knowing Snake's stealthy ways, it will later find it has much less ammo and is pointed in a different direction, and will never figure out why.]]
[[File:MGS4M2HB-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M2 Browning mounted on Drebin's Stryker.]]

==General Electric M134 Minigun==

During the second Act, soldiers of the Pieuvre Armement PMC are seen wearing suits of powered armour equipped with [[GE M134]] miniguns on their right arms.

[[Image:M134.JPG|thumb|none|400px|General Electric M134 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M134.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two power suits are visible at the top of the shot, both with arm-mounted miniguns.]]

==General Electric M61A1 Vulcan==

Secondary armament of Metal Gears Rex and Ray is a pair of [[M61 Vulcan]] 20mm rotary guns; Ray mounts them on the tips of the two wing-like underwater propulsion units on its shoulders, while Rex mounts them under the projections either side of the pilot's "beak." While the latter is claimed to be 30mm by the game, Metal Gear Rex has not changed size since Otacon called them "Vulcan cannons" in ''MGS1'' and the weapons are not large enough to be GAU-8s. The battleship USS ''Missouri'' also mounts M61 vulcans in her Phalanx CIWS installations.

[[Image:M61vulcan.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Electric / General Dynamics M61 Vulcan - 20mm.]]
[[Image:Phalanx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GE M61 Vulcan in a Phalanx mounting - 20mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The damaged cover of Metal Gear Rex's left-hand gun shows it to be a six-barrelled M61 Vulcan, despite the game labelling it as a much larger seven-barrelled 30mm GAU-8.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As in ''MGS2'', Metal Gear Ray's Vulcans are mounted at the tips of the two propulsor "wings," forcing the vehicle to position itself incredibly awkwardly to fire. Here, Ray opens fire on Metal Gear Rex in the finale of the fourth Act.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the final Act, Snake's base of operations becomes the USS ''Missouri'', which is recreated in loving detail and the subject of many dramatic shots. Here, a shot of the ''Missouri's'' flank as she approaches the submarine arsenal ship ''Outer Haven'' shows off her Mark 12 5-inch/38 calibre dual-purpose guns, angled RGM-84 Harpoon launch tubes and two of the M61A1 Vulcan cannons in Phalanx installations on her superstructure.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As Outer Haven launches a volley of Harpoon anti-ship missiles at the USS ''Missouri'', "Mighty Mo" responds with her dual-purpose guns and Phalanx installations.]]

== Kalashnikov PKT ==

During the first Act, the rebels assault Praying Mantis PMC positions with a Russian BMP-3 IFV. The BMP-3 is the world's most heavily armed IFV, packing in a 2A70 100mm low velocity gun / missile launcher, a coaxial 2A72 30mm autocannon, six 81mm 902V "Tucha" smoke grenade launchers and three [[PK Machine Gun|PKT machine guns]], one coaxial and two bow-mounted.

[[Image:Machine gun PKT.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PKT machine gun with 250-round ammo drum - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:MGS4-BMP3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The rebel BMP makes a grand entrance, firing off its bow-mounted PKT machine guns.]]
[[Image:MGS4-BMP3-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|If Snake has been nice to the rebels, this is a happy sight; if not, it may be time to be ''really'' stealthy.]]

==M224 Mortar==

During the first two Acts, a number of [[M224 Mortar]]s set up by rebel forces can be found and used by the player; these are aimed with a HUD indicator showing the round's trajectory, ending in an area-of-effect circle at the point of detonation. They have infinite ammunition.

[[Image:M224-60mm-mortar.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M224 Mortar - 60mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mortar.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake discovers the hard way that the mortar wasn't designed to be used as a pillow.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mortar-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vowing to never speak of his bad sleeping experience again, Snake decides to dispose of any witnesses, dropping a 60mm round into his M224 mortar after sighting up a hapless PMC soldier manning an M2 Browning.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mortar-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake admires his handiwork and shows off his amazingly flexible definition of "sneaking mission."]]

==M230 Chaingun==

PMC hybrid helicopters based on the Boeing X-50 Dragonfly aircraft / helicopter concept are armed with a chin-mounted [[M230 Chain Gun]].

[[Image:Hughes-M230-Chain-Gun3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hughes/Alliant Techsystems M230 Chain Gun - 30mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M230-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A PMC attack helicopter comes in to support Praying Mantis troops during the first level, showing off its chin-mounted M230. While these helicopters appear many times during the game, they never receive a name.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M230.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sights up a PMC attack helicopter with his VSS Vintorez as it fires its chaingun at rebels nearby. This is unlikely to end well for him.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M230-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the PMC hybrid helicopters in "jet" mode. They are never encountered like this during gameplay, only during the early cutscenes of Act 1. It's worth noting that the real X-50 Dragonfly program was axed due to "inherent design flaws," with neither prototype ever successfully transitioning from rotary-wing to fixed-wing flight.]]

==M240C==

The [[FN_MAG#M240_Machine_Gun|M240C]] is seen mounted coaxially on the remaining Abrams tank in Shadow Moses Island's tank hangar.

[[Image:M240C.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240C vehicle coaxial-mount version - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M240C.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake admires the remaining Abrams in the tank hangar, standing under the M256 120mm L/44 main gun. Note the CIS mounted on top of the turret right of the commander's Browning M2; apparently the magical elves which have been maintaining Metal Gear Rex since the island was abandoned took time out to update ''MGS1's'' M1A1 to A2 standard.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M240C-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A view from the upper walkway of the tank hangar. ''MGS4'' doesn't take sides on whether the Abrams in the first game had two Browning M2s as in ''Metal Gear Solid'' or an M2 and an M240D as in ''Twin Snakes''; the remaining tank in the hangar has no loader's weapon at all.]]

== Yakushev-Borzov Yak-B ==

Liquid Snake's crashed Hind-D can be found in the snowfield around the Comm Towers in Act 4, with the chin-mounted Yak-B gatling gun buried in the snow. Other Hinds can be seen in the PMC advertisments at the very beginning of the game; at least one of those seen, however, is a Hind-A which would have a different, single-barrel chin gun.

[[Image:Yakb.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Yakushev-Borzov Yak-B machine gun - 12.7mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Hind-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake finds the crashed Hind-D in a corner of the snowfield. "Bad dog! What did Snake tell you about destroying the helicopter?"]]
[[Image:MGS4-Hind-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During one of the introduction's confusing PMC commercials, an Mi-24 Hind-A is briefly visible circling two people in vaguely Middle-Eastern dress; it can be identified as such by the early "greenhouse" side-by-side cockpit rather than the later twin bubble canopy. This means it would mount a single-barrel gun rather than a Yak-B; it is included here for the sake of noting this.]]

=Other=

=="Rail Gun"==

The fictional handheld railgun used by Fortune in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty|MGS2]]'' returns in ''Metal Gear Solid 4'' attached to the quadrupedal armour of B&B Corps member Crying Wolf; the weapon is mounted to the "Beast" armour's shoulder, and can only be used when the cockpit is open. Following the battle, the railgun is made available to the player for free; it features a 3-step charge up activated by aiming the weapon and a digital scope with a charge level indicator. The gun no longer has the issues with runaway firing described in ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', where it was stated the project was cancelled for this reason and only Fortune with her "good luck" could use it effectively. Despite the railgun being roughly the size of a motorcycle, it apparently still somehow fits inside the foot-tall Metal Gear Mk. 2.

The railgun itself seems to have been created using either the same wooden motion capture prop as the one used for ''Metal Gear Solid 2's'' MoCap work or a reproduction of it; the design incorporates elements of a number of experimental and prototype high-tech weapons, but the weapon as a whole is a work of fiction.

[[Image:MGS4-Railgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Railgun" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake continues to make a mockery of the idea that he keeps his inventory in anything resembling a backpack.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the railgun; note the magazine in Snake's left hand is proportioned like a pistol mag, since it only contains projectiles with no propellant.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake uses the scope of the railgun to sight up a Gekko hanging from the ceiling in Shadow Moses' casting and rolling facility. The horizontal bars fill in as it charges, while the lower vertical bar is an ammunition counter.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With the Railgun slung over the right shoulder, Crying Wolf's quadrupedal "beast" armour manages the entirely impossible feat of stopping and then lifting a Caterpillar D9 bulldozer with an Israeli-standard up-armour package. This vehicle weighs as much as a main battle tank, and no matter how strong the "beast" is its legs would dig into the ground before it could ever hope to pull this off.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Three Acts later, Crying Wolf takes aim at Snake in the snowfield on Shadow Moses island; strangely, in this cutscene the railgun has an analog zoom on the scope rather than the two-setting digital zoom it has when Snake uses it. This is also the only time the railgun is seen with the armature extended when it isn't being charged.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake hefts the railgun as he prepares to take on a force of Gekko bent on destroying Metal Gear Rex's hangar. Despite that he could barely lift it when he picked it up after defeating Crying Wolf, he uses it just fine the rest of the time.]]

==Tanegashima==

A Japanese clone of a Portugese muzzleloading matchlock arquebus design, this is basically a joke weapon that can only be reloaded while standing, taking a lot of time to do so for only moderate damage and accuracy; costing one million Drebin Points, it's a very expensive joke at that. However, there is a one-third chance that when the Tanegashima is fired outdoors it will instead fire a gigantic whirlwind which knocks enemies down and scatters items everywhere. It is extremely silly.

[[Image:TanegashimaGun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Japanese "Tanegashima" matchlock arquebus. Tanegashima was the site of the first contact Japan had with European traders, and these firearms were copies of traded Portugese guns.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Tanegashima" arquebus on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aims down the iron sight of his Tanegashima arquebus. Note that only one end of the match is lit; typically on a real matchlock, both ends would be lit in case one was extinguished accidentally.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading involves a suitable amount of fiddling around with the weapon's ramrod, followed by a series of hard-to-make-out actions which are presumably refilling the flash pan, resetting the serpentine and replacing the match.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sometimes it's even worth it.]]

[[Category:Video Game]]
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Talk:Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2011-08-19T21:00:43Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Operator */

== Airsoft 1911 ==
Are you absolutely sure the airsoft gun wasn't based on the gun in the game?-protoAuthor
:What are you talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:10, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
::You say the custom 1911 was based on an airsoft gun. Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?-protoAuthor
::I also agree that the gun isn't based off the one in the pic for that weapon. Aside from it being an airsoft gun, it is a compact version of a 1911 when Big Boss's 1911 was a fullsize. Also, the slide serrations are slanted wheras the ones on big boss's weapon were vertical like those on the original 1911. Neither one has anything to do with the other, I think the image should be removed.

the 'source' for the statement 'Big Boss's gun is based off a custom airsoft' is http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/gameguns.html

However, I view this with a huge degree of skepticism. For starters, as mentioned, the barrel/slide seems to be longer on Big Boss's gun. But even if it is based on an airsoft gun, the airsoft gun itself is based on a standard real-world 1911 with real world features. So it's just one step removed from raw, hands on research. But then again, I don't think most game companies actually buy real versions of the guns they are modeling, they just look around for photos of them. It's like saying 'the model for the gun in this game isn't based on a REAL M-16, it's based on pictures of an M-16'

That 'source' mentions that the gun was produced by Sheriff Co. Given that Sheriff is mentioned in the MGS3 credits it's actually quite likely that it was in fact modeled off an airsoft gun. However, the one in the picture is obviously not the one in the game.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 19:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I know that Western Arms did an airsoft version of the MGS3 custom 1911 after the game was released. I wasn't aware of an airsoft gun like that existing before MGS3 was released. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:30, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

== DSR-1 ==

It can also be found in South America when following Naomi's trail, just follow the wrong footsteps from the point where you can also find hand trails. You will hear Naomi crying for help (from a radio) and a sniper will wait for you to come. She has the DSR-1 with her.

== In game pistures ==

Someone needs to post ingame pictures of the guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

this shot gun (http://www.gunsamerica.com/926290644/Guns/Shotguns/Ithaca-Shotguns/SxS/Ithaca_NID_New_Ithaca_Field_Grade.htm) looks alot like the "twin barrel" in the game.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.22|184.35.22.22]] 22:34, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mark 23 Mod 1? ==
''According to the Metal Gear Wiki, the gun they used as a reference in MGS4 is actually an experimental "Phase 2" model that is currently undergoing testing by the US Navy.''

No, actually it says that ''the SOCOM presented in MGS1, MGS2 and MGS4 is in fact the Phase II model handgun submitted for trials in the USSOCOM Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) competition around the later part of 1991, and not the actual production model of the Mk.23 Mod 0''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

::I wrote that -- the differences were the LAM, front serrations on the slide, markings, and the hammer looked different too. By the time the Mk23 was received in May '96, these details bad been changed; both for the military and civilian versions of the pistol. Overall, they're mostly aesthetic changes. -- Orca*

==Screenshots needed==

This page needs someone with enough effort to add pictures for all of these guns. -GM

:I can't do screencaps, but I did add some details about some of the weapons such as where they can be found and such. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:I would agree that a game with this many weapons would be much better with more relevant screencaps, especially ones without watermarks. More relevant information about the guns themselves would also be welcome.

==Why the strange biases towards certain weapons and calibers in this game?==

It seems odd to me why the weapon/caliber selection is so odd in this game. Metal Gear Solid has been one of the best game series to prominently display the real names of every gun in the game, but I have to wonder if some of those companies Kojima got permission from paid him to underplay the abilities of other guns in this game.

For the calibers, it seems mighty odd that the Glock 18c is the only 9x19mm pistol in the entire game. Not even the rebels or militia use older 9x19mm pistols, which is very odd because you'd think that of the vast majority of older pistols that escaped the worldwide mandatory ID lock systems that is mentioned in the game's backstory would be 9x19mm pistols. Not even something like a Beretta M9 is used by the PMC troopers, even though it would be a nice free choice to have in Metal Gear Online.

The game also strangely features 7.62x51mm Battle Rifles where they aren't the most appropriate, such as how the PMCs use the FN SCAR-H even in the confines of urban ruins (as in Act 1) or an intact city (as in Act 3). Only the South American countryside in Act 2 would be an appropriate location for those Battle Rifles in the hands of general troopers. You'd think that Kojima with his weaponry knowledge would give them assault rifles/PDWs/shotguns instead while in urban operations, but that's somehow not the case.

Did H&K and FN pay Kojima to include (and in turn, advertise) their products a great deal in this highly-anticipated and wildly popular game? FN has the Five-SeveN, the P90, the SCAR-H, and the FAL all in the game, while H&K has the SOCOM pistol, the MP5SD2, the XM8, the G3A3, and the HK21E. Colt products and their users by contrast don't get that kind of exposure--Colt M4s are rare, and Colt M16s are completely non-existent in this game. I also think it's telling that the FN P90 has its 50 round magazine, a combat sight, a flashlight and a suppressor, but its competitor, the H&K MP7 has only a red dot sight and is stuck with its 20 round magazine (not its upgraded 40 round magazine) according to this game just can't compete.

Contrary to what some posters on this wiki have said elsewhere, I don't believe this game is biased towards the latest and greatest weapons in general, as several weapons here such as the Vz. 83, the FN FAL carbine, the G3A3, the MAC-10, the Mosin Nagant, the PKM, the RPG-7 and the SVD Dragonuv are quite old.

Kojima definitely spent some time doing weapons research for this game, but did he ever come out with a reason as to why the game chose such odd additions to its arsenal? His personal favourite gun is the Barret M82, something not suited for general combat, so maybe he himself doesn't know as much as the ingame info might imply. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the same arguments could be said about any of the Tom Clancy games like Rainbow Six Vegas and it's whoring worth of H&K weaponry [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

It would seem to me that if HK and FN paid Kojima off to showcase (or "whore out", whichever you reading this prefers) their tech, weapons like the XM8 and SCAR-H wouldn't be seemingly outclassed by the M4. You can kit the M4 out with anything and everything, while the SCAR-H lacks a suppressor and grenade launcher (severely hindering its flexibility) and the only thing the XM8 gets is the grenade launcher. Heck, the M4 is pretty much a CQB, grenadier, and designated marksman carbine all in one package (and I typically use it as such, often foregoing the actual ''sniper rifles'' in the game in long range combat for the M4 equipped with an ACOG). If HK or FN had paid him off, it would seem logical for the M4 to be totally outclassed in-game by both the XM8 and SCAR-H. Not only those points, but the M4 and the 1911s (I say 1911s collectively because cutscenes seem to automatically replace every non-1911 pistol in your inventory with the Operator) are implied to be Snake's signature weapons this time around. If he were paid off, why aren't the Mark 23 and XM8 or Five-Seven and SCAR-H his signature weapons? Also where's the PSG1, the so-called "greatest sniper rifle in the world" (or so HK says)? And I also feel the urge to point out that the HK21E has '''0''' modifications for it as well as a ridiculously slow ROF, which makes the M60E4 ''clearly'' superior to it. Now, I'm not exactly ''defending'' either company here, but it just seems to me that if they had paid Kojima off, the biases pointed out here would be far more extreme. As it stands, I just think Kojima wanted the weapons he likes the most to be the ones players used the most. Regarding the "old" weapons in the game, they may have seen a few years, yes, but FALs, G3s, Dragunovs, PKs, and above all the RPG-7 are so ubiquitous today that we'll be seeing them on modern battlefields, ''especially'' ones in the Middle East, for decades to come. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

:Actually, now that I've spent some time thinking about it, the M4 and M1911 in MGS4 may not actually be Colt products at all. After all, didn't a court decision in real life rule that an M4 is a type of firearm and not a Colt trademark at all? It's kind of like how an "M1911-style pistol" is also a type of pistol, not a Colt trademark which is why there are dozens if not hundreds of kinds of "M1911-style pistols" for sale on the general market today. I wonder if Kojima asked Colt to use their trademarks and got rebuffed for whatever reason, which might have caused him to withdraw the M4s from the PMCs and substitute FN SCAR-Hs until someone told him he could just call it an M4 (though not a Colt M4) and avoid copyright infringement.

:On the issue of customizability, I think the M4's customizability compared to, for instance, the XM8 and FN SCAR-H is a bit of laziness on the part of Kojima. I don't think there's any reason why they couldn't just stick the M14 EBR's suppressor model on the end of the FN SCAR-H or G3A3 and turn those two into suppressed firearms, for instance. They could have also stuck the M4's suppressor model onto the AK-101 or XM8 as well (in my opinion the XM8's integral red dot sight in MGS4 is easier to use than the M4's, being a great deal less claustrophobic than the M4's version). Something like the FN EGLM would have been nice on the SCAR-H (or the SCAR-L had they bothered to give the PMCs assault rifles in urban areas) but unlike the M320 or GP-30, would only have gone on one weapon (unless the SCAR-L was included) and possibly not have been good on the cost-benefit analysis. But my point, that the customizability of many of the weapon systems (where are the PSO-1 scopes for the AN-94 and AK-102, for instance?) is more an artifact of the design decision than the reality of the weapons in question. Of course, even with the full "real-life" customizability, the M4 would still be the only one capable of carrying an underslung shotgun, which I think is unique enough (though I bet the XM8 could have gotten one had it been adopted, and I'm sure one will be designed for the FN SCAR models if it proves itself in the field enough).

:Oh, and one of the reasons why you can snipe with the M4 is because the game over-emphasizes headshots and doesn't implement ballistic physics for bullets. If it did, bullet drop would come into play (especially since the M4's short barrel means that less velocity and energy is imparted to the bullet, resulting in less effective range), moreso with the M4 than the FN SCAR-H or M14 EBR for instance. I think the game would have been more fun if helmets were stronger (for instance, 5 helmet hits from most pistol weapons to kill, 3 helmet hits from 5.56mm weapons to kill someone, or 2 7.62x51mm/PDW ammunition hits, or 1 9x39mm/shotgun slug hit), forcing the player to aim for the exposed face or neck to guarantee a one-hit headshot kill).

:I only mentioned those weapons as "old" so as to defuse claims that Kojima was only focussed on the "latest and greatest."

:It would have been nice if a PSG-1 and FAMAS (both weapons used in MGS1) showed up in the game for old time's sake, but that was not to be. Still, that doesn't resolve the question of why HK's PDW (the MP7A1) is so inferior to FN's PDW (the P90) in this game. Even the wikipedia image of the MP7A1 shows it with a suppressor and 40 round magazine, along with custom optics. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:25, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::Play on a higher difficulty level. The strength of the PMC's helmets varies. On the easiest level, a single 9mm round will punch through. On the highest level, it takes a couple of rounds of 7.62 NATO to punch through. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:50, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

One imagines a general switch from assault rifles back to battle rifles would occur in a world where you might reasonably expect to encounter extremely tough infantry armour or power suits; given the nature of the PMCs as private entities, being "equipped for anything" is probably a selling point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:23, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:Sure, but if you're really "equipped for anything" you'd issue what's needed for the environment. And the PMCs in Act 2 (South America) still use the SCAR-H CQC even though in open countryside that barrel length is more of a liability than anything else. Even the Leftist insurgents are using full-size G3A3s in that stage. In a battle rifle, the shorter the barrel, the more of the cartridge's energy goes to waste as useless muzzle flash and sound. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::To be fair, Pieuvre Armement also have more support weapons than any of the other PMCs (snipers, HMGs, grenade launchers, and a lot of mounted guns) and it looks like they were primarily hired to defend key government structures rather than fight it out in the open. Perhaps with the SCARs they just got a bulk discount, or given it's a private entity it could just be one of the directors like the look of the weapon / someone was impressed by the salesman's spiel / someone was sleeping with someone else / whatever. Out of game, it makes some sense; it means you only need one set of gestures coded for NPC / rifle no matter what level they're in. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:19, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:If Kojima's aim was to make the FN SCAR-H a "this is one of the signature enemy NPC guns" type of thing, then that does make some sense, but that doesn't even cover how many Pieuvre Armement troopers can be found patrolling in the open, sometimes ambushed by Leftist insurgents, or the lack of customizability options for the FN SCAR-H.

:Furthermore, if Kojima and his team could afford the time and money to put the KAC Masterkey on the M4A1 Carbine (an accessory that can be mounted on no other weapon in this game) you could just as easily do the same kind of work and stick an FN EGLM grenade launcher to the SCAR-H (it uses the same swing-out cylinder as does the M320 grenade launcher, so the animations would be largely the same), to say nothing of a suppressor or the LSS underslung shotgun for the XM8. And why not rip off the Mk. 14 Mod 0's suppressor to use on the SCAR-H, G3A3 or the FAL carbine? Before you tell me "they don't have barrel threading," neither does Snake's Operator pistol, his very first suppressed lethal weapon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:31, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
::Uh dude, Snake's Operator does have a threaded barrel, did you even look at the pics... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:41, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I stand corrected, the thumbnail made the threading blend together into a featureless grey. Regardless, my other points stand. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:55, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I think the idea was to make players want to use the M4 over other weapons (I guess to emphasise it), so the SCAR couldn't be as good as it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:07, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Noteworthy is the fact that the Masterkey in reality doesn't come in a rail-mounted version like is shown in-game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:44, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

== Mk. 23 Mod 0 ==
I just have to ask this; why does Snake like using the H&K Mk. 23? I mean, from everything I've heard/read about them, the USP compact tactical variant is much better, so why doesn't Snake use that?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 16:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

He uses it because the designers wanted him to use it. And if you've ever shot a Mk23 you'd know that it is vastly superior to the entire USP series in every possible way other than weight and weight shouldnt be an issue you're looking for a combat handgun.
-Double Agent M

:Um, yes, weight ''is'' an issue in a combat handgun. Weight is ''always'' an issue when it comes to the weapons and gear used by soldiers. That's why the Mark 23 ''failed'' as a combat handgun and lavished on supply shelves instead of inside holsters like the various 1911 makes and even the entire USP series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I've been meaning to ask this for a while now on the HK Mk. 23's page, but since this was brought up, I might as well ask it here: why ''was'' the Mk. 23 made so big and bulky in the first place, if its performance could have been replicated in the smaller USP series? It's close in size to the Desert Eagle despite firing a smaller (and more combat-practical) cartridge. Was it to ensure ruggedness, resistance to salt water damage, and reliability? Or something else? It's always puzzled me about this pistol that is one of the signature weapons of the Metal Gear Solid series (making appearances in 1, 2, and 4). Of course, it could be that Kojima just thinks it's a "cool gun" . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Its weight helps counteract recoil, the elongated barrel improves accuracy, and right out of the box it can be fitted with a suppressor and a LEM. It's bulky enough so that if you need to you can beat a man to death with it. It's a fantastic combat handgun but where it loses out to Berettas and Colts is in complexity. Because of it's raw size you cant just whip it around and the controls can take some getting used to. It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm.
-Double Agent M

:Supposedly the USP Compact Tactical can mount a suppressor and Laser Aiming Module, but only has 8 rounds in .45 ACP. Also, as a "Offensive Handgun Weapons System," the SOCOM pistol supposed to be usable as a primary weapon when killing is supposed to be done discreetly, such as many situations in the Metal Gear Solid series. On paper I can see why it's better, but if the hands-on experience of operators deems it as "uncomfortable to carry and use," then their complaints trump the on-paper benefits.

:Of course, "uncomfortable" and "hard to use" is a bit of a relative term, since training and practice can certainly acclimatise someone to almost any well-designed weapons system, but that takes time, money, and perseverance. Given that handguns are hardly a primary weapon system anymore, and the majority those who do professionally use them as such (such as average beat cops) don't train with them to be expert shooters most of the time, I suppose ease of use is a major factor because it's the easier way out instead of spending time to get used to a better-on-paper but less-user-friendly weapon. If "better-on-paper" mattered more, wouldn't the FBI be using Glock 20 pistols instead of Glock 22 pistols? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:48, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with you. :) But I'd still love to get a hold of one and try it for myself. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:: "It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm." <-I love this kind of thing. Sure, a pistol that's a foot and an half long with a suppressor and weighs as much as an empty MP5 is a much better compliment to your primary weapon than it's weight in extra magazines ''for'' that primary weapon. Think you needed to lay off the HK propaganda there, "Agent M." To actually answer the question, they used the Mk23 because it's huge and blocky (same reason Meryl got that 50 AE Deagle), so it's easy for the player to see it in Snake's hands and for the PS1 to render it. Simple as that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:42, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:::I've heard from a lot people who actually own MK 23s and they say that their excellent weapons (and no, it was not "HK propaganda"). - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::::From what I've heard, they're excellent weapons in terms of accuracy (which comes from being gigantic and heavy) but not something you'd want to take into combat; they're too big for a backup weapon and not capable enough as a primary weapon. Also, anyone who drops the cost of a Mk23 on a pistol is going to have thought it was an excellent weapon ''before'' they bought it, otherwise they never would have done so in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:56, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::::I would buy one, but hey, a four pound .44 Magnum revolver feels like nothing in my hands, and I'm only a medium-sized guy with not much of a build. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

== Meryl's Desert Eagle ==

Just how "combat-effective" would the ballistics of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle be? What might the effective range be, and would it regularly penetrate the body armour of the FROG troopers she faces? Or would she be better off with an 40-round MP7A1 (to go with the theme of "biggest to smallest" weapons of the Rat Patrol) when fighting the FROG troopers in Advent Palace and Outer Haven? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

*I've got an Airsoft Desert Eagle (bought many years ago, mind) that came with both barrels, and it's weighted to the point you can see what a bad idea it is: it's ridiculously front-heavy with that barrel extension, and I imagine with a scope as well it'd probably weigh as much as the MP7 anyway. So maybe it could penetrate body armour and maybe it couldn't, but you'd still have better ergo from using a 1911 duct-taped to the head of a banjo. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:21, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Okay, so that Airsoft model exactly duplicates the loaded weight of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle? That's rather interesting. Even if it couldn't penetrate the body armour the FROGs seem to be wearing, would the impact force be enough to inflict blunt trauma on the FROGs, such as broken ribs, concussions, or the like? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:15, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

Well back when I did Airsoft, I played for functionality and being simple. Sure my team and I decked out our guns, but nothing more than red dot sights, and vertical grips. Because it isn't real firearms, we tried to not equip like we would a real weapon because it's not the same thing. Lighter is always better. The less we have to carry, the better. That being said, I would never get an Airsoft Desert Eagle to shoot in games. For fun, yeah. It'll be cool to run around the woods with the 10in barrel and a scope mounted on it, but you wouldn't get any good range with an airsoft pistol anyway, even if it is gas powered. Now a REAL Desert Eagle, I'd get for fun, but that's only after I get my more practical guns first.

Anyway, I think from a character standpoint, Meryl's character is supposed to be a "tough chick" so what's the iconic tough guy gun? A Desert Eagle from the action movies. I don't know if the .50 AE could go through body armor [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Yeah, I just use it for plinking spiders because I have a high ceiling. Bought it because I was a teenager and it was a Desert Eagle, I will make no excuses on that front. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 10:48, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

::lol, I also bought a Airsoft Desert Eagle when I was a teenager and I still have it. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:50, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, living here in Comrade Elizabeth's Glorious People's Republic of Englandstan makes it easy to hang on to it since if I'm reading this correctly I couldn't legally sell it anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

::::lol. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:49, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

:Well I admit before I knew anything about the M16, I was very anti-gun kid in early high school. Then when I got to know guns, I thought the M16 is this Vietnam piece of crap that jams all the time and the AK is the ultimate assault rifle until I grew up and got a more objective view of guns. When buying my first Airsoft, I bought a P90 cause I was a fan of Stargate...then I discovered a P90 Airsoft is useless, inaccurate and has terrible range. So I went and bought an M733, and then realize that you need a longer barrel for range and accuracy and that evolved to my M4 type rifle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:59, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

One more thing; does the reloading style Meryl uses in the fight inside Outer Haven's computer room have a name (where she jams one of her magazines into the crook of her knee while firing with her other hand, before reloading an empty Desert Eagle with the magazine held in her knee)? I see so many adds for shooting schools with patented styles around I have to wonder if this comes from one of them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:11, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Tanegashima rifle ==

Why isn't it on the page?

:Thanks to Evil Tim's hard work, it is now on the page. However, there's something that remains to be investigated; I've heard conflicting reports about whether or not the Tanegashima arquebus will always fire its "divine wind" (translated version of the Japanese word "Kamikaze") tornado if you fire it in the opposite direction of the wind in a singleplayer level. That could be something worth looking into. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:15, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::I'll check up on that; I'd just heard it was a one-third chance per shot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:51, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::Nope, nothing to do with the wind direction, I tried with and against the wind, and in the end it just went off at random like usual. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:17, 3 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see it was just a rumour then. Still, I'm puzzled as to why you didn't take a screenshot highlighting the extreme silliness of the weapon; it would have been worth a chuckle to see a screenshot of PMCs caught in the tornado flying in a spiral while dropping far more items than they could ever carry in real life while collecting their "frequent flier miles."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:57, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well, I accidentally selected Solid Normal rather than Big Wuss Easy, and it's hard enough getting the Tanegashima to do its thing normally, nevermind trying to check how it's affected by the direction of the wind while being shot at. I'm doing enough stupid things to burn through rations as it is :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:58, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see; I guess not all of us have the time to learn how not to get shot up less in this game (here's a tip; going prone or crawling is the best way to use your Octocamo). Would have been nice to see PMCs flying in a big spiral anyhow on this wiki. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:43, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well sure, I can be pretty sneaky when I'm not doing stupid things like seeing if I can get a Gekko to throw a grenade at me. Same as I'm trying to avoid wearing the Octocamo hood even though it's good for your camo index, because it also makes Snake look really stoopid. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Someone needs to finish this page ==

This page is how old and no one has finished it? Someone needs to start doing it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:17, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Well I don't have this game and it's a chore to get all the screenshots second hand [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I've got a much better capture device than I used to, so I could probably do this at some stage; the main problem is I'd have to record it first (since the software with the Dazzle crashes every time I take a screenshot and BSODs the entire computer if I try to take more than one); I'll have a crack at it next time I'm off work. Don't want to just stand in a corner looking at the same thing for every gun, that makes for dull page. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

:Please do. Stealth camo would be useful to take screenshots of weapons in the hands of NPCs (such as the MP7 or the like). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

::Still on this. It's going to take a while before I have time (especially since I'll need to record some of those billion hours of cutscenes), but I haven't forgotten. I'll probably get Twin Snakes and cap the whole series, since doing PS1 MGS1 without first-person aim mode for caps would be a bit pointless. "Look, Snake has a FAMAS! Down there in his hands...oh just click on the damn image and press your nose right up to the screen." Only thing I really need from that is a comparison shot of the Abrams, since the original game's one had two M2 Brownings instead of one. Also I've got an MGS2 trailer somewhere showing Snake with a FAMAS, so I'll have to add that to the 2 page. I'm hoping I can find a picture of the wooden prop version of Fortune's railgun that they built for motion capture. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:31, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Good to know. I'm looking forward to a full version of this page. I would have finished the MGS2 page myself, except that the PC version I have (the official KONAMI port) is somewhat poorly optimized, with some textures missing or improperly rendered (and what do you mean, KONAMI, that we can't use the mouse to aim in FPV or duplicate the pressure sensitive button functions from a PS2 controller with a keyboard?!). Also, the FAMAS in MGS2 is only usable on the demo version of MGS2 (though it does show up in some cutscenes in the Plant chapter for some strange reason). Did they reuse the MGS2 Demo FAMAS for the Twin Snakes? Perhaps you can find out. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:54, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, that'd be worth checking. I heard GIAT (it was still GIAT back then) got very precious about their intellectual property after they realised people wanted to put the FAMAS in games (they're the same about model companies and the LeClerc, Tamiya had to stick their logo and "officially endorsed" on the box of their LeClerc kit) and I think that's why Konami pulled the FAMAS from 2 and never had it turn up again even in 4. Probably they couldn't say no to using it in a remake since they'd already said yes the first time. I've still got the demo of 2 (only reason anyone bought ''Zone of the Enders'', after all) and the FAMAS isn't in that either; it goes from the start of Tanker to the end of the boss fight with Olga, and only gives you the M9 and USP. It was only ever in the early trailers showing Snake on the Tanker. I heard there's some other changes like the guys in the Warhead Storage room using ring airfoil rounds rather than just instakilling you with a radiation leak if you were spotted. Also, you didn't miss anything with the pressure sensitive buttons, trying to half-hold the fire button to aim a rifle in first person was terrible. Apparently the "Tanegashima" is a Japanese copy of a Portugese arquebus design (sayeth Wikipedia, anyway), so I'll have to add that to the page too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:19, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, copyright is a sticky situation (go look at one of my earlier comments here and notice how there are no Colt products in this game, despite the presence of an M4A1 Carbine and an M1911). Ubisoft got around it because the FAMAS appears in Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by its real name, so why not MGS4? And I was wrong; the FAMAS is coded within the MGS2 demo, but it is only accessible [http://youtu.be/MxfMCXcpGx8 via a code]. And actually there are a few uses for the pressure-sensitive buttons in MGS2--without them you bang your head against a locker ventilation grille when trying to look out, alerting any nearby enemies. You also can't aim an assault rifle without the pressure-sensitive controls, which made controlling them on the PC next to impossible. Another problem is you can't lower a pistol without firing it if you don't let go of the aiming button gently (I got around this on the PC version by unequipping my weapon). Finally, the distance you throw grenades is determined by how hard you press the pressure-sensitive button (but they were almost useless anyway since throwing a frag or flashbang grenade automatically causes an alert upon detonation and frags have a small damage radius). All this made for a frustratingly bad PC port, which is why I caved in and got the PS2 version afterwards. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:20, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

Well, made a start before realising I'm going to have to crop the borders off every image by hand. :( Ah well, they're just placeholders anyway just so we can get rid of the IGN watermarks and have actual game images. For now they can keep the borders and I'll replace them all when I do this page properly. I hope you appreciate my sacrifice, I had to uninstall Vanquish to get these. Stupid 40 gig PS3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:35, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Good work so far Tim. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:40, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

*Ok, I'll put up the explosives later today (since we don't have them at all). I'm fairly sure the railgun qualifies as reasonably believable; it was actually built as a physical object (a wooden MoCap prop) and looks like an XM25 that's eaten its Wheaties. And then everyone else's Wheaties. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:29, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Anyone remember where the PMCs with standalone Masterkeys show up? I think it's somewhere in Act 2, but I can't remember if you have to cause an alert or if they're just ahead of where I stopped recording (partway through Confinement Facility). Also, don't worry, the shots aren't all going to be from Act 2. Also added a spoiler warning since, well, I can hardly ''not'' have a shot of A Certain Person holding the Patriot, and the fourth Act being on Shadow Moses is kind of a spoiler too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:There's definitely at least one in the Confinement Facility, check out about 10:50 of this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg87rbI3CXU#t=10m50s], there's a guard with one who shows up with one at the right edge of the screen (pretty sure he always respawns there with a Masterkey). --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:27, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, that's an XM320, he's one of the pair I've got a shot of in that section. You can hear a "phut" rather than a shotgun blast when he fires. But I know there's people with standalone Masterkeys somewhere, because I remember being puzzled at why on earth you would create such a thing. (edit) Ah, MG Wiki says there's one at the gate of Vista Mansion. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Also, considering all the shit that fits inside Metal Gear Mk. 2 (50 Stingers, 50 Javelins, 50 LAWs, a Barrett, a railgun the size of a pony, etc) why does it never occur to Snake to hide inside it himself? I know they kind of joked about it with Snake being able to pocket a drum can that's bigger than he is, but still. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:36, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

It's called a "Hyperspace Arsenal." I would be all for a realistic mode that forced you to carry guns that are too big right from the beginning of a mission rather than have them delivered by the mini-Metal Gear, or have you collect them after a period of time after "requesting" them at a cache location dropped off by Drebin, or else only be able to transfer/launder/buy ammo just after meeting Drebin in cutscenes. Still, that wouldn't address the other realism issues this game has, such as how the NPCs are indestructible--shouldn't shooting them with .50 BMG weapons or high explosives blow off limbs or reduce them to ludicrous gibs? And what about the octocamo system; wouldn't the human eye only be realistically fooled if Snake was hiding in foliage or else, quite some distance away, lest the enemies spot his outline and start shooting at Snake?

In any case, do you think you could also include tidbits on which guns need to be laundered and which don't need to be? It'd be a nice tidbit, since the entry already includes which guns are available in multiplayer and which aren't. I'm very much looking forward to seeing more great screenshots of this game's guns--do you think it'd be possible for you to equip stealth camo and enter First Person view so we can see NPCs with holding their guns up close?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:06, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm afraid I don't have stealth camo (I can never resist firing LAWs at Strykers :() but I tend to prefer wider shots with things actually going on in them; just focusing right in on the gun makes the page rather dull to look through, IMO (I ''hate'' those CoD page images with everything cropped out but one corner of the screen; just imagine if you took the shot of Dirty Harry holding his revolver in the "do you feel lucky?" scene and cut out everything but the revolver). Also, I'm fairly sure the player and world models for weapons are exactly the same in this game. Still, it's not that hard to get close when you're recording video rather than taking individual screenshots, and it's even easier to get close to the totally broken Raven Sword AI in Act 3. Plus you can get great views of almost all the PMC weapons in cutscenes anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:53, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I didn't mean cropping the images so that only the guns are visible; I was just saying that with Stealth camo you could get within punching (or kissing) distance of the various NPCs in the game so you could get good pics of them holding their weapons without the annoying black-screen parts from scopes or the HUD marks in the centre of the screen if you use Snake's binocular's or the mini-Metal Gear's camera view. Also, could you please please please make a screenshot of the FROG firing her DSR-1 at Big Mama followed by the latter's "I'm fine" despite not wearing any body armour? I find it one of the more unintentionally hilarious parts of the game. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'll be sure to get that, yes. Though for me the funniest sequence was the part before the "guns of the Patriots" part, where the US Army were pointing guns at Liquid Ocelot's boat and making clicking noises for so long it became ridiculous. Of course the Foxdie scene was funnier, but probably intentional (Snake and Liquid do the "Fox..." "...Die" bit, Liquid Ocelot jumps up and runs away cackling ridiculously and Snake responds by falling over). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Heh heh, it's funny how after the "Guns of the Patriots" scene, Drebin's prices fall flat on their faces with a permanent 50% discount until the end of the game. Of course, that raises the question about why Drebin's prices never go up; wouldn't the complete lock-out of ID-locked firearms mean that the services of gun launderers like Drebin would be more in demand than ever (resulting in a huge price increase), even if just to keep the Rebels who use naked guns from killing all the ID-locked gun users? It's just another entry in the long list of this game's realism problems. And of course, the first FOXDIE scene is another manifestation of how wrong it was to let Kojima direct the game, since he's so firmly stuck in MGS1's shadow the plot of MGS4 is so firmly stuck in the first game's mold. Of course, that's got nothing to do with the weaponry in the game, but I'm still looking forward to this page's completion nonetheless. By the way, have you seen Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN!" ability in Metal Gear Online yet?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:47, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:I must admit I've never played MGO. As for Kojima, I think he was at his best in MGS3 when he was making a tribute to something he loved (the old spy movies that had inspired the series in the first place, with their cool gadgets and ridiculous villians) and he's at his worst when he's trying to force out a game he seems to have regarded as his obligation; I remember that he didn't really want to be involved in 4 and only came back on board after the fans raised a stink about his being absent. He strikes me as a lot like Lucas, who was great when he was making a tribute to the old-fashioned sci-fi he grew up with and hideous when he was left making something he didn't really care for except as a way to make money. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:57, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Funny that you mentioned George Lucas. I have to wonder whether or not Kojima took some inspiration from Lucas when he decided to make his newest, completely over-referenced MacGuffin: nanomachines that do almost everything, from track biological functions to serve as ID keys, even form the basis for mind control or emotional manipulation. Kind of reminded me of Lucas' "midi-chlorians," since the two of them are both blood-borne squiggly things. Oh well, the fans, like everyone else, don't always know how what they want isn't necessarily what they need. And even the greatest of us can succumb to "Creator's Conceit," whereupon one starts believing in the delusion that "because I made this best-selling piece of media, I can change it however I want, heedless of the needs of believability, plausibility, realism or even my own previous work." Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN" ability in Metal Gear Online can be seen in full force [http://youtu.be/XM7yc5Gf_OU here]. You should give Metal Gear Online a try if you have the money; its training mode is great for taking pictures of the unique characters and their weapons, and it is the only mode where you can use the ballistic shield, or hear the various multiplayer characters do their Rambo impressions while firing an M60E4. Once again, a hearty thank you for your hard work. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:26, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think I'm immune to stupid depictions of nanomachines after playing the two ''Deus Ex'' games, expecially the second one where you apparently have a nanoforge in every weapon that makes the relevant ammo type out of a universal base material ''as you fire''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm trying to remember: I know there's no flashback of Vulcan Raven, but wasn't there one of Sniper Wolf that showed her PSG-1 at one point? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:59, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

::The various flashbacks in Act 4 can be found [http://youtu.be/81A3yb_FATg here] and [http://youtu.be/aznWCpBYkKQ here]. You can check those out at your leisure. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:50, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

:::The links you're posting don't work [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

::Pardon me, they're fixed now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:13, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Right, that's me out for today, getting sleepy. Got a lot more caps to get off this Act 1 video, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:13, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think if you see Sniper Wolf's PSG-1 it's part of Crying Wolf's death scene or Naomi's (I seem to recall there's an X button prompt when Otacon is getting upset about that whole thing where everyone he displays the slightest affection for dies instantly), which that doesn't have. Regardless, been a little busy, but should have some new caps up soon. I'm trying to get everything with a Browning M2, so IIRC I still need the Stryker MGS from Act 2, the Humvee in Act 3 and the derelict M1 tank in the hanger in Act 4. I'll finally be able to take that "Incomplete" down once I get a shot of Rex, Ray or one of ''Missouri's'' Phalanxes. Also might see if I can ID those two giant cannons on Liquid's boat, at least in a caption. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:10, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was right, you ''do'' have an X button flashback there. There's also a painting of Big Boss holding his old Mark 22 in Big Mama's church, because it makes sense for one of those to be there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:12, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Having never had a chance to really pay attention to the Vamp / Raiden fight until now, I must admit I laughed my ass off at the part where Raiden has both arms pinned to his back and so blocks Vamp's arm and then throws him using only his teeth. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:36, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot requests ==

I know Evil Tim's busy, but this might be a good opportunity to let him know what screenshots might be appropriate to showcase each weapon.
*Five-seveN pistol: Old Snake commits "sexual assault" at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper with her own pistol while patting her down for items, along with the "crotch grab" move.
*MAC-10/G18C: Old Snake tries out for a movie of "Bonnie and Clyde" while performing a drive-by shooting from Big Mama's motorcycle.
*M4 Custom: For some reason, Old Snake has taken up the habit of shooting this carbine while holding it sideways.
*Shansi Type 17: Big Mama gets her awesome on by shooting up some Dwarf Gekko drones with her Type 17 pistol.
*MP7A1: Isn't there a PMC in Act 2 carrying this weapon who is distracted by a Playboy Magazine?
Sometimes funny screenshots make entries on this wiki all the more entertaining to read. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

*Might try that
*Almost certainly going to do something like that
*When does he hold it sideways, again?
*Yes
*Yes

Also, totally going to show how you can kill a Gekko with the SVD. Just a note: you don't have to call him Old Snake in every caption. The game only calls him that occasionally and he's "Snake" the rest of the time, and it's not like this is MGS1 and there's two people potentially called "Snake" (even in that case, they always call him Snake and his brother Liquid, so there's only minimal potential for confusion). I could see there being some issues with what to call Big Boss in 3, but this guy is still Snake. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:06, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:I call him "Old Snake" because that's the name above his lifebar, and because that name clearly refers to him in the MGS4 time period. Of course, if you really want to be pedantic, it could be argued that Liquid Snake and Solid Snake should have called each other Liquid and Solid instead of Liquid and Snake (I think the latter combination was chosen because it sounds less silly). If you prefer to just call him Snake in the article, feel free to change that part pack. And Old Snake holds his M4A1 carbine sideways once when engaging the Pieuvre Armement PMCs who are taking Naomi away after headshotting Vamp. Another US Marine aboard the Missouri holds his M4A1 Carbine while trembling with fear as the Dwarf Gekkos execute a boarding action right outside the Missouri's bridge. That's all I can remember right now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:37, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and if you want to show the Vulcan Cannons on the Missouri battleship, shouldn't you include the dramatic close-up shot of its CIWS cannons firing like hell trying to intercept the swarm of anti-ship missiles launched from Outer Haven? The one available now only shows the CIWS cannons in a distant shot. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:58, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:The one you're thinking of is a rather dull closeup of the installation from the ''rear'', I wanted this one because it shows the main guns and looks awesome. The Phalanx shots are exclusively taken to show off ''Missouri'', the installations can piss off. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:15, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Incidentally

[[Image:MGS4-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Ray should not have been allowed to use the hydrocutter as it's opening attack. >:( Also, just noticed that half the "Street Fighter" attacks use the beak to grab Ray, even though it's where Snake is sitting and at least two of them would clearly kill him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Question ==

Do real suppressors degrade like in MGS3 and MGS4? I think not, or at least it's ''very'' exaggerated in these game. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:50, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:old style wipe suppressors do degrade over time. Maxim type supressors and supressors designed after the 1960s don't degrade. You will have to clean them out after combat load but with the lenght of most computer games it should not be an issue as there isn't the time for junk to build up to the point where the supressor will fail. Basically if you take the time to clean you equipment every so often things should't go bad. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:32, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thank you. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:45, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:Yep, suppressors in this game are another problem with its realism. The wipe-style suppressors in MGS3 would indeed degrade, sometimes after as low as 5 to 10 shots. Modern suppressors can last for thousands of rounds of semiautomatic fire, but less if fully-automatic fire is used.
:In reality, detachable suppressors fitted to weapons with supersonic ammunition (Drebin doesn't sell subsonic versions of normally supersonic ammunition, such as 5.56mm NATO, 7.62mm NATO, etc.) would not be as stealthy as depicted, especially at the ranges you fight at in this game. Try dropping a phone book from a height of 5 feet (or 150 cm in metric) onto a hard floor that is not covered by a rug or carpet--that's close to what even the best suppressors can do. At most of the ranges you shoot at in this game, real people would definitely notice (if not necessarily know where you are) and would immediately trigger a caution phase unless your first shot killed someone who was all by his lonesome. Suppressors can't deal with the sonic boom caused by supersonic ammunition, either, which can alert people. This is why the quietest suppressed weapons use subsonic ammunition (such as .45 ACP, or Russian 9x39mm ammo, etc.), or a special integral suppressor (like that on the MP5SD2) that slows supersonic ammunition down to subsonic speeds. Even that doesn't do anything for the clacking noises caused by the cycling of a (semi)automatic weapon's action, which is why the tranquilizer pistols in MGS2, 3, and 4 all use slide locks to eliminate that.
:Another problem is that suppressors, by slowing down the hot gas from fired rounds, cause a gun to overheat faster (because the slowed gas has more time to impart its heat to the weapon). Again, this is generally not a problem unless you forgo all fire discipline and keep firing in full auto; then you might have reason to detach an overheated suppressor and put a new one in place. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:08, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
Last ime I helped put rounds through a MP5 with a detachable supressor it took a bit for the supressor to cool enough that it could be removed from the barrel. Of course we put 120 rounds through it with mostly magazine dumps as we were just testing the guns funtion.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Thanks guys. Well a suppressor is not meant to suppress gun fire so people in the same room can't hear it, it's meant so people in the whole building and in the city outside the building can't hear it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:46, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:Oops, forgot to mention that another way to remove the "clack-clack" sounds of a firearm's action (which can be louder than a suppressed gun's muzzle blast if the suppressor is good enough), aside from slide locks. Any type of round cycling that needs to be manually operated (such as bolt action, pump-action, etc.) will eliminate that sound. Too bad the DSR-1 couldn't be suppressed in this game; combined with its bolt action you'd get a very powerful, quiet, and lethal counterpart to the Mosin Nagant tranq rifle. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:45, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

== Just checking something ==

Of the M4, Drebin says "The barrel's free floating, of course." Now, you can see from the shot of Snake firing that even the ''handguard'' isn't free-floating, but isn't it a contradiction in terms for a direct impingement rifle to have a free-floating barrel since the barrel ''has'' to be touching something other than the reciever, namely the gas tube? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:I hear of free-floating barrels on AR-15s all the time, I think "free-floating" means nothing but the receiver (and the gas tube) is holding the barrel in place. At least, that's what I know. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:36, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
It could be a bit of "Kojima nonsense" that snuck its way into the script (kind of like how Drebin claims the PMCs love to use the M4A1 Carbine, when in fact none of them do, and the game gives you the impression that Drebin is just foisting off old, obsolete stock onto Old Snake). After all, are we really supposed to believe that Fatman from Metal Gear Solid 2 built his first atomic bomb(!) at age 10? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:56, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
::I guess it could also be a translation error of some kind, since there's a few of those knocking around; I've just got to the first case of them mangling a symmetrical sentence by having Naomi alternate "fate" and "destiny" rather than just saying "it" the second time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Or it could be Kojima's notoriously inconsistent stance on the realism/unrealism scale, especially when it comes to weaponry. First in MGS2 they let us render any enemy limb useless in a single lethal weapon hit (a feature that never returned), but in that same game they let us use the Stinger Missile Launcher indoors (even though that kind of weapon would cause a cave-in or flooding in the Plant chapter). And now they ask us to believe that in some scenes, professional PMC operators can't hit Snake when he's in spitting distance (such as after he shoot Vamp in the head in South America). That scene might have worked if he was hiding some distance away using Octocamo, though. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:07, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and one more thing about the M4A1 in this game; why would you need to have a free-floating barrel on an automatic carbine? Wouldn't it just be simpler to insert a longer barrel, which would increase both accuracy and the bullet's effective range? Or, if you have the resources, you could always use better rounds (like the real life Mk 262) which have both longer effective range and accuracy than the standard 5.56mm NATO rounds in service now. That speech of Drebin's just makes him look like a "used car salesman"--it reeks of hucksterism. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:04, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown pistol ==

Any idea what this is in Johnny Sasaki's leg holster? USP, maybe?

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:26, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, even I'm a bit stumped, it's almost featureless. o_0 - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:12, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was going by the features it doesn't have, more. It's got a horizontal base to the grip while holstered, which rules out any 1911-based pistol, but it doesn't have a beavertail bigger than the one on an actual beaver, so it can't be a Desert Eagle. It's obviously not any pistol that's available in the game unless it's a very small Mark 23, and a very small Mark 23 is called a USP. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:25, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, am I hideously mistaken or is the Mk. 46 Mod 1 actually a Mod 0? The handguard doesn't look right for a Mod 1. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:01, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:Based on what the model looks like it could be a featureless USP or P226 (it's too small for a Mark 23), but without the said "features" it's almost impossible tell what it is. It could also be just a generic "holster stuffer". :P (P.S. what's the deference between the Mk. 46 Mod 1 and the Mod 0, I've only seen the Mod 0?) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:59, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::The forearm of the Mod 1 lacks the rail at the 12 o'clock position (FN Herestal has pictures of the Mod 1 on their website [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF055&gid=FNG008]). There's probably other differences, but either Google is failing me, or there's no info about on the Mod 1 upgrades on the entire internet. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:48, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:::[http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF059&gid=FNG008&mid=FNM0039 FN USA] says "improved receiver pins, a feed tray with retention pawls and a vented handguard with improved heat shield and three MIL-STD 1913 rails." Now, I've checked the reload animation and you can see it's got a 12-o-clock rail on the handguard, so it's a Mod 0. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also, of those two it'd have to be the USP, the SIG would have two screws visible holding the grips on. What I can tell you is the shape is intentional; it's ''not'' the same model used in PMC holsters; the ones I checked have a diagonal base to the grip and therefore are obviously supposed to be a GSR. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:34, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

Just to add these:

[[Image:MGS4-FROG-Holster.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FROG holster weapon, probably Five-seveN]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PMC Holster weapon, clearly GSR.]]
[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another angle on Johnny's weapon, and one where they seem to have forgotten to add that delightful skidmark to his trousers, too.]]

Incidentally, ID'ing this one will take us up to 76 weapons with only one not ID'd (the land mine). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:25, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

But it doesn't have the finger tip-shaped slots at the mag well to be a USP ether... In the last pic of Johnny the pistol now looks like a stubby Desert Eagle because of the way the grip looks. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:53, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Well, there should be some closer shots of it when I finally get off my ass and get around to recording and capping stage 3, there's a lot of closeups of the Rat Patrol members at the end of that one that should settle it if it actually is something. Interestingly, Meryl also has that holster as part of her uniform, but hers is empty (Deagle the first has a horizontal chest holster). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Think this is the best shot you're likely to get. Now, I'm going to bed, I just spent hours recording the entire third Act and at least half of the fourth and it's 3am. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:Looks kinda like a Desert Eagle with the beavertail milled down, wow this is hard. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:27, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::Seems it's actually a Mark 23, since Raiden's character weapon (aside from a heap of pointy things) is a Mark 23, and he has the same holster. Holster looks to be very similar to [http://airsoftbb4u.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=402 one of these]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:10, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::You could be right, but still looks off from a Mark 23, I see a metal tang on the grip like the Desert Eagle. Err. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:04, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Might just be a mistake in the model. It's certainly supposed to be a Mark 23 (it's Raiden's only gun in multi), but since they never draw them (unlike FROGs and PMCs, who do draw their sidearms if they're disarmed), there was probably no obligation to actually put a drawable gun in there. I can't remember if Johnny pulls out his sidearm when they're defending the door or not, I'll have to see if they'll actually settle it for us or not. Otherwise we'll just have to say it's an inaccurate Mark 23. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:09, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Johnny does use his sidearm there. He uses a GSR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

== Note about the M4 and the "big PMCs" ==
They ''did'' use the M4 in early builds of the game [http://ranger.gamebanana.com/img/ss/srends/thm__2863-.jpg] [http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/God-of-Reapers/metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-p-1.jpg], but it was changed to the Mark 17 at some point for some unknown reason. Snake even got ''his'' M4 by taking it from a PMC in an early trailer. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
:Regarding the Patriot, wouldn't it fall under the same hideously ill-defined "PDW" label as the XM8 Compact? It does rather seem that PDW just stands for whatever your marketing department wants it to: HK definately called the XM8 compact a PDW in sales fluff, and invented the term because they didn't want to call their compact MP5K the MP5 Kurz Kurz as far as I can tell. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:14, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:On the subject of the M4: the article mentions that the handguard isn't free floating like Drebin says. However, I'm pretty sure the rail is carbine length KAC URX which is free floating. Also, the MP5K-PDW isn't a compact MP5K; it's an MP5K with a stock added. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 09:01, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Look at the shot of Snake firing the M4 into the camera and you can see there's a circular cap on the front of the rail handguard which contacts the barrel: a KAC URX doesn't have such a cap, which is why it's free-floating while this one isn't. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:42, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

PDW is indeed something of a term that is a bit too nebulous. I've even heard the term applied to the select-fire variant of the Mauser C96 being described as a PDW since it could mount a shoulder stock and used ammo that was "armour piercing." Still, the question I raised earlier on this page as to the point of mounting a free-floating handguard onto an M4A1 carbine remains--isn't a free-floating barrel mainly for sniper or designated marksmen weapons, not for CQB full-auto weapons? And wouldn't greater long-distance accuracy be achieved more simply by using a longer barrel or enhanced ammunition? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:With regard to free-float rails: there's more to it than just accuracy. Keeping the rails from contacting the barrel means that any accessories mounted on the weapon will be affected less by the vibrations that occur during firing. This helps keep vertical grips and the like from coming loose, and any optics/lasers/IR designators mounted on the forearm will have an easier time retaining their zero. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:12, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

Well, that does make a bit more sense, but it still sounds like the sort of thing a National Army wouldn't issue--though it wouldn't be out of place among civilians or Private Military Contractors. Don't National Armies train for accurate semiautomatic fire whenever possible from anything that isn't an LMG, and if you fire enough fully-automatic rounds to affect the zero of accessories mounted on the handguard, doesn't that mean you're doing something wrong? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== XM8 Compact ==

Why is the XM8 Compact under the SMG/PDW section? PDW or not, 5.56x45mm should go to the Assault rifles. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I was considering moving it to go with the Patriot. I'll do that tomorrow assuming someone doesn't beat me to it, and I'll remove "PDW" from the other heading since it's such a vague, useless class of weapons that seems to include everything gun company marketing departments feel like including from SMGs firing pistol rounds to compact assault rifles. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm not sure about that; I think PDW is still useful to describe select-fire SCHV (small caliber, high velocity) two-handed firearms using proprietary rounds purpose-built for armour-piercing properties, like the 5.7x28mm, the 4.6x30mm, the 6.5x25mm, etc. that aren't (machine) pistols. Having said that, I would agree about how the label can be abused (the MP5K-PDW should have just received an "A" designation such as the MP5KA6 or the like). Still, I have to wonder if Akiba was given the XM8 Compact to show that Meryl "wears the pants" in their relationship--at a 9-inch barrel length, the XM8 (ultra)compact carbine is shorter than Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle, which is 10 inches long.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:08, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:The trouble I have with the PDW label is either (a) it just means SMG so there's no point including it or (b) it includes all the stupid things that are called PDWs but aren't SMGs. Sure, the SCHV rounds aren't all used by pistols so not all PDWs are ''technically'' SMGs, but all PDW rounds are dimensioned like pistol cartridges and most have pistols designed and / or manufactured to shoot them anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing is, if you really want to be pedantic, an SMG is really just a select-fire pistol-caliber carbine. In my view the PDW label is still useful for a narrower class of weapons than most users of the label think, and should only be used if the weapon meets all of the following characteristics.

*Proprietary PDW rounds are designed from the ground up as armour-piercing rounds (piercing Level IIIA ballistic armour or lower), and resemble miniaturized assault rifle ammunition (by virtue of its dimensions and spitzer shape) rather than traditional pistol ammunition. So by this definition the PP-2000 would not be a PDW since it's still using 9x19mm rounds, just in an armour-piercing configuration.
*A stock and foregrip must be present on the weapon for it to be considered a PDW, since both simplify aiming (which is very important in a CQB situation). So a select-fire Five-seveN or C96 are still not PDWs (instead, they are just armour-piercing machine pistols) since it lacks the ability to have both of those features. An MP5K PDW has both a stock and foregrip but doesn't meet the first requirement, and is therefore just a compact SMG with a folding stock and small foregrip.
*A true PDW must have select-fire or fully-automatic fire capability, otherwise it just becomes a fancy carbine like the PS90.

You have to admit that PDW is a more convenient acronym than something like SCHV SMG or the like. We could just go with something like "AP (armour-piercing) SMG" but that would bring stuff like the PP-2000 back into the mix. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:27, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

::Actually, an SMG is a super-light machine gun firing a pistol round: remember the category comes from the first world war before the concept of an intermediate round even existed. And the problem is most users of the label include most companies that say their weapons are PDWs; there's such a huge number of bad examples and so few good ones that it isn't really worth using it, IMO. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

:My google-fu's rather weak right now, but aside from H&K marketing derivatives of the MP5 and XM8 as PDWs I don't know of companies that are marketing SMGs or compact assault rifles with the PDW label, when in fact they don't meet the requirements I outlined earlier. Maybe you could point me in the right direction? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 23:32, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::Wikipedia says the Jatimatic was marketed as a PDW back when HK invented the term, and since the 5.7mm has realised its friends would still like it if it came out as a pistol round anything that fires that is basically a subgun in the normal sense of the term. Magpul's PDR Shirow-gun fires a full-sized 5.56mm, the Chinese QCW-05 fires the 5.8x21mm pistol round, the VBR-Belgium PDW fires the 7.92x24mm pistol round...It's fair to say most things called PDWs don't qualify in the strictest sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:00, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:The "Shirow-gun"? And here I was thinking firearms designed for Ghost in the Shell at least made some sense, even if their service pistol caliber choice was a little iffy on the stopping power side (BTW, the Seburo Firearms page should not have been removed from this wiki). PDW rounds fired out of pistols seem a little iffy to me as well; if HK had to cancel its UCP for "inadequate ballistics in a pistol platform," what makes the Five-seveN/QSZ-92/VBR 7.92 Glock that much better? In any case, the Magpul PDR is just a compact bullpup carbine in 5.56mm NATO, and the 5.8x21mm round (how is this better than the 5.7x28mm round again?) is a miniaturized version of the Chinese 5.8x42mm assault rifle round, which makes it a PDW round. Maybe we could compromise and call them "CQDWs" for "Close Quarters Defensive Weapons" to show how they are meant to be stowed in "Close Quarters" and are most effective in CQB range as well, given their shorter cases compared to full-size assault rifle rounds? Making a poll on the forum asking whether or not the PDW label should be expunged from the site might be useful as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:23, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Again, though, I don't really see the point of using a label that's just going to cause a lot of confusion with not-examples and pseudo-examples. Anything that is categorised as a PDW in the strictest sense is basically an SMG firing AP ammunition. Not using the term rules out all the various pistols and assault rifles that would otherwise sneak into the SMG heading through the vague backdoor marked "PDW." It's sorta like having a category called "Dogs / mammals" next to one saying "cats" and expecting cats to not end up in the dog category. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:I lol'ed at what you said about Akiba and Meryl. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:15, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

Yep, then Akiba tries to "man up" by getting the Barrett M82A2, but then finds he can't "last long." He definitely would have lasted longer if he had gotten something capable of "sustained fire" instead, like the Mk. 46 Mod. 0 coupled with an FN P90 of his own, so either he or Meryl could use the LMG for covering fire while the other goes out to loot P90 magazines from dead FROG troopers and keep wreaking merry hell as long as possible. But no, Kojima had to saddle Akiba with an incredibly impractical Barrett M82A2 (only really useful for killing larger Gekko drones and annoying unmanned Metal Gear RAYs), his old XM8 Compact and a GSR. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:23, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== The MAC-10 in this game ==

Is it an open bolt (the original version) or a closed bolt version? An open bolt version wouldn't need charging after reloading, and wouldn't need to be racked unless the trigger was held down after the last round fired (after which you'd just pull it back to ready the weapon). If the MAC-10 in this game were a closed bolt version, then you would need rack the bolt if you were loading from empty and would indeed eject a round if one were still in the chamber if you racked the bolt. If Old Snake is ejecting a round from the MAC-10 after a mid-magazine reload, then wouldn't it be a closed version? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:27, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'd have to check. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:09, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Another thing you might want to examine is the M60E4; it's still an open bolt weapon last I checked (partly because open bolt weapons run cooler than closed bolt ones, an advantage on an LMG since it means you don't have to change barrels as often). Also, is the M60E4 supposed to be the "very latest model" that the rebel in the Middle Eastern Militia Safe House was boasting about? It would make more sense than an HK21E, since some PMC machine gunners use the M60E4 and it is "the very latest model" of its kind. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:45, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Again, I'll check. In the latter case, I imagine the "very latest model" was probably supposed to be the XM8 LMG: it's the only version missing from the final game. Perhaps they gave the guy the HK21 instead because their playtesters would always kill him to get themselves a free 5.56mm machine gun with a built-in optic. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:30, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Please do. Your considerable efforts on this page are much appreciated. But it wouldn't be the first time a game has used closed bolt versions of weapons that were originally open bolt; Rainbow Six Vegas 2 uses a closed bolt version of the MAC-11 machine pistol, for instance. And the XM8 LMG was always a strange one to me; while the other variants had good advantages for reliability and ease of use for their roles (since their sights didn't need zeroing, had more durable/reliable parts, along with infrared laser pointer/illuminators built into the sight), the XM8 LMG does not have a quick-swap barrel (unlike the M249, for instance) and is a closed bolt weapon which would make its heat buildup more problematic, despite the tougher barrel. In any case, all the game devs had to do to make the XM8 LMG would be to stick a Beta C-mag on the Marksman version of the XM8, since you can't use bipods in this game. The XM8 LMG would have been great in Johnathan's hands, and the standard carbine would then be given to Akiba. Even so, giving that boastful rebel an M60E4 would still require that you spend the money for accessories on a new game, so it wouldn't be as imbalanced as an XM8 LMG.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:34, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== The "PMCs love the (M4)" line ==

In my edit I did NOT specify which voice track language I was referring to (for all I know, that line could also have been in the original JP version). What I was commenting on was how the recording for that scene was probably done before the decision was made to have the PMC guys use the SCAR-H rather than have them actually use the M4-type carbines (as seen in the preview images someone posted earlier). While not wrong to begin with, the fact that they didn't go back to re-do that scene based on the new weapon assignment leave me scratching my head. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 01:26, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, but it's hardly the only strange mistake made in that scene; Drebin also says it has a free-floating barrel even though there's clearly a circular end cap connecting the rail handguard to the barrel, and also that the US Army uses it even though in-game they don't. It's hard to say if it's something that used to be true, a mistake, or just Drebin playing salesman and hoping Snake doesn't notice the more obvious BS in his pitch. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

== Just found out something interesting... ==

HD remakes of all the previous games are apparently being released on PSN and possibly Live in November, so I'll hold out for them before screencapping those pages. Apparently they're going to sling in ''Peace Walker'' for PS3, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:15, 9 July 2011 (CDT

:Are they going to retexture MGS2 and MGS3 for this collection? I hope so, because MGS2 is horribly bland with its textures, far more than MGS3 was. I'd do MGS2 myself, I don't have a capture card and the PC version I have is not well programmed for PC graphics cards, so you often end up with a lot of graphical errors. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 11:48, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

::From the sounds of things it's going to be retextured MGS2, retextured MGS3 and probably retextured Twin Snakes running in the MGS4 engine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:02, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

:::That sounds cool. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

Last I heard it was only for the X Box 360. Good news that it's being released on the PS3 as well. Might mean that we're going to see it on the PC (fingers crossed). --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:10, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

== Drebins Camo Trousers ==
hi guys, wondering if anyone can tell me that make/pattern drebins trousers are, i mean obviously they are desert but im not sure what brand.

[http://images.wikia.com/metalgear/images/c/ca/DrebinMGS4.jpg] --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 10:48, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

Pattern would be something like "desert tiger stripe" and there's a similar-looking set of trousers [http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/original_desert_tiger_stripe.htm here]. His look to be bleached a bit lighter or something, but it's the same basic pattern. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:04, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

== A minor controversy over the Operator suicide scene ==

The English voice actor of Old Snake, David Hayter, caused a minor controversy among gaming journalists and the MGS fandom when he said he [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rH-cYUiogI didn't find Old Snake's reluctance to commit suicide to be believable]. Now that the relevant screenshot is in this wiki entry, I thought it deserved some explanation. In David Hayter's words, he says ''". . . Snake would put a bullet in, and put [the gun] in his mouth and just pop himself, like he's killed--he's killed how many countless thousands of people, and he's going to shake because he's going to kill himself? I didn't agree with that at all and begged them to change it . . . ."'' --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:05, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:Hm, I don't really buy that. He's killed ''other'' people, sure, but confronting the end of your own existence and what might come next isn't going to be easy unless you're incredibly secure in your convictions as to what will happen (and Snake hardly strikes me as devoutly religious) or too stupid to comprehend that's what you're doing. It's not like it's a spur of the moment "I have to do this" thing, after all. Mind you, I really don't think we needed to see him going down on the Operator for quite as long as he did. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:45, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

Even so, I think he's used to fearlessly facing death, even if it's virtually certain (such as when he faced Metal Gear REX before Grey Fox intervened in MGS1, or during his hopeless duel with Fortune in MGS2). And "going down on the Operator"--that's a nice wordplay. Still, I think it's a little disappointing how what comes next is available at any difficulty--it would be more of an incentive to play on harder difficulties if you only got the complete scene after doing something such as completing the Boss Extreme difficulty or getting a Big Boss emblem. Otherwise, you'd only see:

*Old Snake smoking a last cig before fading to black and the last gunshot after finishing Liquid Easy.
*The scene where he sucks his gun off (again fading to black with the last gunshot) after finishing Solid Normal.
*A short cut after the final gunshot showing the gun and its smoking barrel in Old Snake's gnarled hand, fading to black after finishing Big Boss Hard.
*And the complete ending scene after finishing The Boss Extreme.

It would also have been a nice touch if you got to see the ghostly forms of all the people you killed throughout the game or the people Old Snake couldn't save (which means, at a minimum, Liquid Ocelot, Naomi and Big Mama) surrounding Old Snake in the cemetery as he puts the gun in his mouth, as he will join them in death very soon. Such a scene would be a nice reference to the Sorrow's River in MGS3. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:42, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

*I don't know, facing almost certain death is different to facing ''actual'' certain death, especially when it's for something as abstract as the human race rather than something as concrete as someone right in front of you. Also, in both those cases his other option was being killed by the thing he was facing, so he ''didn't'' pick the "certain death" option. Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth, he's probably worried that shooting himself would just make the bullet ricochet off his superior genes, kill the person who was ''actually'' going to cure the disease and overpenetrate to also kill the world's most adorable kitten which was behind that guy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:18, 31 July 2011 (CDT)

== Operator ==

I think Snake's main 1911 is closer to a TRP Operator than a standard MC Operator. It has a Target cut rear sight, full length guide rod, extended magazine well and front strap checkering. Standard MEUSOC 1911s like the MC Operator and the Kimber Warrior don't have these features. I know it's not a huge difference but I think it may be worth mentioning.
:I just realized that TRPs are usually bushingless. I think it's more of a frankengun with features from both but I still think it's closer to the TRP so I changed the picture. Hope no one minds.

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2011-08-19T20:46:51Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Springfield Operator */

[[Image:MGS4poster.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots'' (2008)]]

''Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots'' is a 2008 stealth-action / third-person shooter video game directed by Hideo Kojima, developed by Kojima Productions and published by Konami. It concludes the saga of the character Solid Snake (now known as Old Snake). Set in the year 2014 following the events of the previous games, the storyline takes Snake through a series of warzones where rebels are fighting hired PMC soldiers as part of an ongoing "War Economy" engineered by a mysterious organization known as "The Patriots." Snake's mission is to uncover a plot by his old nemesis Liquid Snake, now seemingly reborn in the body of the gunman Revolver Ocelot, and set on bringing down the "System," an apparently invincible computer network which controls the world.

'''The following weapons can be seen in the video game ''Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots'':'''

'''Note: Spoilers are present in some weapon descriptions.'''

__TOC__ 

=Overview=

[[Image:MGS4-Intro.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Snake admires the place he's going to keep enough weaponry to outfit a company.]]
''Metal Gear Solid 4'' uses a split inventory system where the player character, Old Snake, can equip up to six weapons, which are then available using a quick-access menu; this is explained as Snake's "backpack," despite that he is not actually wearing one. The rest can be accessed via the pause menu, this swapping explained in-game as the TARDIS-like depths of Metal Gear Mark 2, a foot-tall robot which seemingly has no issues containing more or less every weapon on this page along with enough ammunition to destroy Belgium. Snake's currently equipped weapons each count their weight towards a total for all gear; heavy loads will cause his "stress" meter to rise faster when he moves around. Only weapons count towards weight; ammunition is treated as weighing nothing. This gets bizarre with disposable systems where each reload is a whole weapon in itself but all except the currently held one are treated as weightless "ammunition;" for example, only one of the fifty LAWs Snake can be carrying actually weighs anything for purposes of inventory weight.

Weapons can be found in the environment, but often feature biometric ID locks which prevent unauthorized use. To remove these, Snake can access a "gun launderer" by the name of Drebin and exchange points earned for the "war price" of repeatedly collected weapons, allowing him to purchase ammunition, buy new weapons and accessories, or unlock already collected ID-locked weapons for use. Drebin is explained as having an inside line to the "System" which controls the ID chips so he can replace existing chips with factory blanks (the process leading to the pun of the character called Drebin saying he sells "[[Naked Gun: From the Files of Police Squad!, The|Naked Guns]]"), but in reality such an operative would quickly find himself driven out of business by rogue gunsmiths simply replacing the ID lock parts with the original mechanical ones and bypassing the "System" entirely.

The game removes the "Tactical Reload" option of previous games where unequipping and re-equipping a weapon would instantly reload it; weapons now actually have to be reloaded properly. The animations have an odd quirk: apparently between games, Snake has decided to start practicing the "Middle Eastern Technique" mentioned in ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' of always chambering a new round when reloading, even when performing a mid-magazine reload. Despite this being described as a pistol shooting technique, he does it with every weapon ''except'' pistols; they are correctly shown ejecting an unfired round when he does it unless the magazine was totally spent when he reloaded. This seems largely done to explain what happens to the "extra" round that was in the chamber.

The game features an accessory system for weapons, with certain guns able to be customized; this is rather inconsistent, with many weapons not able to receive any modifications at all while only a handful have more than one or two accessory points, the majority limited to either an optional suppressor, underbarrel launcher or taclight. The showcase of the system is Snake's signature "M4 Custom" rifle, which can accept the largest number of accessories of any weapon. Shotguns and most grenade launchers also feature multiple types of ammunition, and weapons typically feature selectable fire modes if they have them in real life.

Accessory tactical weapon lights are shown rather strangely in game; apparently Snake has a fundamentalist attitude towards light discipline and maintains it ''everywhere'', even in broad daylight. This means taclights will only be flashed on and off briefly regardless of what the player wants; the result is only really useful for briefly blinding guards if Snake points the light in their face at extremely close range.

=Handguns=

==Custom M1911==

Big Boss's highly customized [[M1911_pistol_series|M1911]] from [[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater|Operation Snake Eater]] can unlocked via entering a password. Being an unlockable "special" weapon, it deals more damage than the other .45 ACP handguns. The Custom M1911 can be fitted with its own unique degradable suppressor; it is not compatible with the ones for Snake's Springfield Operator.

[[Image:1911custom.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Render of Big Boss' custom M1911 - .45ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-1911Cus.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"1911 Custom" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-1911Cus-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads Big Boss' custom M1911, resisting his genes telling him to first have a three-minute CODEC call about how awesome it is.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mark22.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In a painting in Big Mama's church, Big Boss brandishes his custom M1911.]]

==EAA Tanfoglio Thor .45-70==

The Thor .45-70 is a highly accurate and incredibly powerful single-shot bolt action pistol (referred to in the description as a "hand rifle") that must be manually chambered after every firing. It is Liquid Ocelot's signature weapon, both in singleplayer and multiplayer; in the singleplayer story he only actually fires it once, and his outfit does not display it openly as previous game did with his revolvers. It can be unlocked and used by the player by either earning the Foxhound emblem or entering a code, and comes with a unique red dot sight; this cannot be removed, and the weapon has no other customization options.

[[Image:THOR .45-70.jpg|thumb|450px|none|EAA Tanfoglio Thor - .45-70]]
[[Image:MGS4-Thor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Thor .45-70 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Thor-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Facing Snake on the non-existent Volta River, Ocelot pulls his Thor from an unspecified location inside his coat...]]
[[Image:MGS4-Thor-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And prepares to fire the only shot he ever fires from it. Though in spite of his line, not at Snake.]]

==FN Five-seveN==

The [[FN Five-seveN]] is the standard sidearm for Liquid Ocelot's elite FROG special operations unit (FROG standing for absolutely nothing), and is also one of the weapons used by Dwarf Gekko drones. It can be bought from Drebin, taken from a destroyed Dwarf Gekko, or taken from a FROG by disarming them of their primary weapon and then killing them or knocking them out. Since it shares ammunition with the fairly common P90, it is unlikely to have problems with ammunition, and it has a large magazine. However, it cannot mount a suppressor, the only option being a tactical light. The presence of the weapon is a reference to ''Metal Gear: Ghost Babel'' and the ''Ac!d'' games, where it is Solid Snake's primary weapon.

[[Image:FN-FiveSeven USG.jpg|thumb|450px|none|FN Five-seveN - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Five-Seven.jpg|thumb|600px|none|FN Five-seveN on the item menu.]]

==Glock 18C==

The [[Glock#Glock_18|Glock 18C]] can be purchased from Drebin, has a 33-round magazine, and oddly enough, is the only 9x19mm handgun in the game. It can be customized with a tactical flashlight. The weapon is a reference to ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', where Fatman's weapon of choice (aside from bombs) was a Glock 18, albeit with an 19-round magazine instead. This handgun is also available in multiplayer.

[[Image:Pistol Austrian Glock 18 with 31 round magazine.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Glock 18C - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Glock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Glock 18C on the item menu.]]

==Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Phase II Prototype==

The [[Heckler & Koch Mk 23 Mod 0|Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Phase II Prototype]] can be found in the game in Act 4; its status as Solid Snake's previous handgun in the original ''[[Metal Gear Solid]]'' is noted. It is also used in the Raven Sword PMC commercial in the introduction, and is seen in the holsters of Meryl's Rat Patrol soldiers and Raiden. The SOCOM presented in ''MGS1'', ''MGS2'' and ''MGS4'' is the Phase II model prototype submitted for trials in the USSOCOM Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) competition around the later part of 1991, and not the actual production model Mark 23 Mod 0. It is distinguished by small cocking serrations on the front of the slide, which the production model, Mod 0, does not have. The Mark 23 mounts the distinctive blocky LAM under the barrel as in previous games, and can also be fitted with a degradable suppressor. The Mark 23 is the subject of a number of the game's "Easter eggs," including being found almost exactly where it was in the original game. This is the only place it can be found in the campaign, and it is never available from Drebin; the only other way to unlock it is via a cheat code.

This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is also the only firearm that the special character Raiden is equipped with.

[[Image:SOCOM.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Tokyo-Marui '''Airsoft replica''' of the H&K Mark 23 Phase II Prototype - (fake) .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk23.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mark 23 Phase II Prototype on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk23-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Old Snake:''' ''"Just like old times . . . "'' Old Snake holds his Mark 23 Phase II Prototype as he stands in front of Shadow Moses Island's tank hangar and remembers the good old days.]]
[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny Sasaki (who actually uses a GSR) and the other members of the Rat Patrol have "holster stuffers" that resemble Mark 23, save for Meryl who for reasons best known to herself just wears the empty holster. The model used is fairly inaccurate for a Mark 23, having a metallic tang like a Desert Eagle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk23-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Raiden uses the same holster model except in black, though he's always too busy using his sword and heap of knives to bother with his handgun. His cybernetic body makes him look pretty cool until you get to his feet which have high heels for reasons only known to Konami.]]

==IMI Desert Eagle Mark XIX==

The [[Desert Eagle]], simply called the "D.E." is used by Meryl Silverburgh ingame. It can be purchased from Drebin, or occasionally picked up from the "Dwarf Gekko" drones (who amazingly have the strength to fire it accurately from one undersized mechanical hand). A 10-inch barreled variant with a scope can be unlocked, and is also used by Meryl. A bizarre glitch is that when Snake reloads the long-barrel Desert Eagle, rather than just holding a magazine he is holding an entire second gun in his other hand. Additionally, there is a second glitch where Meryl's slide will lock back and she will not play the reload animation. There may or may not be a round loaded when the second glitch happens; you can't see her remaining rounds so it's hard to tell.

This weapon is available in the game's multiplayer mode, Metal Gear Online. Players using Meryl's character online who equip a standard Desert Eagle in the pistol slot and the long-barreled variant in the primary weapon slot will allow her to switch from one gun to another when the first is empty, without ever pausing to reload.

[[Image:Desert-Eagle.jpeg|thumb|450px|none|IMI Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Desert Eagle on the item menu. Note Magnum Research's new barrel with a picatinny rail. The rail cannot be used on this version, however.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl's special 10"-barreled Desert Eagle with a scope on the item menu.]]
[[File:MerylDEMGS4-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl aims her Desert Eagle at Old Snake upon first encountering him. Despite likely wearing her balaclava up until this point, she removes it and does not use it for the rest of the game. The Meryl special character in multiplayer, however, can remove and re-don her balaclava at any time, as can Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl holds her regular Desert Eagle in the Advent Palace. She tends to use the normal one indoors, saving the 10-inch scoped version for outdoors. This relatively sensible choice doesn't really mitigate the bigger issue of using a pair of hand-cannons in the first place.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Desert Eagle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He then re-Deagles his long-barreled Desert Eagle. This error is most likely caused by forgetting to separate the magazine and weapon objects in the game's files. Meryl's character in Metal Gear Online does not possess this glitch when reloading this weapon on its own.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The first sight of Meryl's specially modified Desert Eagle is, oddly enough, on a monitor in the back of Drebin's Stryker.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|By only carrying two Desert Eagles, Meryl fails "rifleman" on two counts, though she might make a passable futuristic pistolier. Note the unusual holster necessitated by her 10"-barrel Desert Eagle's scope mount.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Deagle-LB-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As the "System" shuts down for the first time, everyone except Johnny Sasaki suffers a psychological breakdown; this includes Meryl, who drops her long-barrel Desert Eagle as she collapses.]]
[[File:MGS4DesertEagleLongBarrel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Screaming Mantis forces Meryl to hold her long-barreled Desert Eagle to her head, which is a reference to the original [[Metal Gear Solid]] when Psycho Mantis did the same thing to Meryl.]]
[[File:MGS4DE-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl fires her Desert Eagle at FROG soldiers inside Outer Haven.]]
[[File:MGS4DE-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl and Johnny fire a brace of handguns at the FROGs, Meryl wielding her standard and long barreled DEs, while Johnny fires a DE he got from Drebin along with his SIG-Sauer GSR.]]

== Luger P08 "Artillery Model" ==

During the bizarre live-action introduction sequences, one of the channels shows a PMC advertisement with two people in Middle Eastern-style robes hovering in mid-air as the camera circles around them. The one in white is armed with a long-barreled "Artillery Model" [[Luger P08]].

[[Image:LugerP08Artillery.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Luger P08 - 9x19mm. This is the long barreled "Artillery" model of the Luger P08 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the two strange combatants during the intro's PMC commercial holds up her long-barreled Luger P08.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of the Luger, with the toggle lock visible.]]

==Makarov PMM==

The [[Makarov PM#Makarov PMM|Makarov PMM]] is used by the rebel "mark" Snake has to track during the third Act, and can be purchased from Drebin. It is also the sidearm of the Paradise Lost resistance group as a whole, though they are only seen using it in cutscenes. There is little to be said for it; it uses uncommon ammunition, cannot be customized or suppressed, and really seems to only be in the game to give the rebels in Act 3 a suitably Eastern European sidearm.

[[Image:Makarov PMM.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Makarov PMM - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Makarov PMM on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Paradise Lost member draws his PMM as Snake enters their safehouse.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Makarov isn't exactly a Walther PPK, but then Snake isn't exactly James Bond, either.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Revisiting the Blast Furnace on Shadow Moses in Act 4, Snake takes on the army of Dwarf Gekko which now live there. Despite the name, the area does not actually contain a blast furnace: perhaps "Two Pools of Molten Metal Room" didn't have the same ring to it.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PMM-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Makarov PMM.]]

== Mk22 Mod 0 "Hush Puppy" ==

In the third Act, a painting of Big Boss brandishing his M1911 Custom with his Mk22 Mod 0 (Navy modified [[Smith & Wesson Model 39]]) holstered is briefly focused on.

[[Image:Mk22 Mod 0.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mk22 Mod 0 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mark22.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Big Boss brandishes his M1911 Custom, with his Mark 22 holstered.]]

==PSS==

The [[PSS Silent Pistol|PSS]] can be found in several areas throughout the game or bought from Drebin; Drebin seems to have an odd fondness for this weapon, and it commands a premium price when found. It uses 6-round magazines with special "silent" 7.62x42mm ammunition, making it a lethal counterpart to the MK. 2 tranquilizer pistol (neither has a degradable suppressor).

[[Image:Pistol Russian PSS in 7.62x41mm SP-4 special purpose noiseless cartridge.jpg|thumb|450px|none|PSS Silent Pistol - 7.62x42mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PSS silent pistol on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Literally two dozen yards from the end of the first Act, Snake uses his PSS Silent Pistol to make a Praying Mantis soldier silent.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSS-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The threat dealt with, he reloads his weapon.]]

=="Race Gun"==

The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racegun Race Gun] is based on Strayer Voigt Inc's 1911-styled double stack pistols; it is not even close to a modern high-end race gun, with only the choice of ammunition really distinguishing it as anything unusual. The gun holds 19 rounds in 9x23mm Winchester which is a moderately powered pistol cartridge; the game's version, for reasons which are never particularly apparent, uses rounds lightly loaded with smokeless powder, providing barely enough force to cycle the gun's mechanism. In game terms, this means the low-powered bullets will ricochet off hard surfaces and can be used for the "trick shots" showcased by Revolver Ocelot with his Colt Single Action Army in previous games; the result is basically just a gimmick gun for showing off, and is useless in practical terms thanks to its low damage stats (which appropriately reflect the stopping power of such underloaded ammunition). Once the game is completed at least once, the pistol will be unlocked automatically. The Race Gun cannot be customized.

[[Image:SVI_Infinity.jpg|thumb|none|320px|Strayer Voigt Inc Infinity pistol - 9x23mm Winchester]]
[[Image:MGS4-Racegun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Race Gun" on the item menu.]]

==Ruger Mk. II==

An integrally suppressed, manually operated fictional variant of the [[Ruger Mk II Pistol]], that fires tranquilizer rounds and has grips with a built-in laser sight. It is given to Solid Snake by Otacon early in the game. After the game is completed, it is also able to fire fictional "Emotion" darts which induce one of the game's four psychological states (Cry, Laugh, Rage and Scream) in the target before knocking them out. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:RugerMkIISilenced.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Ruger Mk II pistol with professional Ciener Suppressor - .22 LR. This is a classic Silenced Pistol and this pistol has been seen in several motion pictures]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Mk. 2 Pistol" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Ruger Mk. II is presented to Snake using Metal Gear Mk. II's manipulator, Otacon seemingly having decided to give Snake two Mk. IIs for the price of one. Note laser sight grips.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the bolt of his custom Ruger Mk. II. This weapon is the successor to ''MGS2'' and ''MGS3's'' tranquilizer guns, and as in those games is manually operated.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Ruger-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After giving a Praying Mantis PMC soldier a hard-earned rest, Snake reloads his Ruger Mk. II.]]

==Shansi Type 17==

Used by Big Mama, this is a Chinese made version of the [[Mauser C96]], chambered for .45 ACP ammunition. The Type 17 can be fired in semi-auto or, incorrectly, full-auto (the real Type 17 never had select-fire capability), and uses a 10-round fixed magazine loaded with a single 10-round stripper clip. It lacks any customization options (not even able the option to mount its well-known stock) and also cannot be reloaded until it is totally empty. It can be unlocked by earning the Hound emblem at the end of the game, or through entering a code. While this is the weapon Big Mama used in her previous guise as Eva in ''Metal Gear Solid 3'', it is not the same Type 17, since that one was lost during the motorcycle chase. Big Mama uses this weapon to destroy three Dwarf Gekko drones which manage to infiltrate her European hideout.

[[Image:C96-10.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Shansi Type 17 with unfired rounds and 5-round stripper clips - .45 ACP. The game version uses a single 10-rounder, common for other C96 versions, but the Chinese copies were usually issued with 5-rounders which allowed them to be reloaded once five or more rounds had been fired.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Shansi.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Type 17 on the item menu. Note the undersized fire-selector borrowed from the [[Mauser C96#Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer|Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer]] above and to the right of the trigger; the Shansi Type 17 in reality is not select-fire and thus has no such switch.]]
[[File:MGS4ShansiType17-0.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Mama continues to use the method of "Bandit Shooting" that she utilized in [[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]], turning the gun sideways to clear rooms in a horizontal sweep. This is probably the only way to take the impractical "Gangsta" style shooting and make it practical.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Shansi-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After taking out three Dwarf Gekko drones, Big Mama strikes a pose with her Shansi Type 17.]]

==SIG-Sauer GSR==

The [[M1911 pistol series|SIG-Sauer GSR]] is the standard sidearm for all four of the game's Private Military Companies, and is also used by the small "Dwarf Gekko" drones. Any PMC soldier disarmed of his primary weapon will draw his GSR; the weapon can also be purchased from Drebin or found in a side-room in the first Act. The GSR uses the common .45 ACP round, but is inferior to Snake's default Springfield Operator due to being unable to mount a suppressor (though it does have the advantage of a slightly higher magazine capacity compared to the Operator).

This weapon is available in multiplayer, and if the "Drebin Points" option is not enabled, the GSR will become the only lethal pistol available to players who are not using unique storyline characters.

[[Image:SIG-Sauer GSR M1911.jpg|thumb|450px|none|SIG-Sauer GSR - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SIG-Sauer GSR on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Investigating a group of dead PMC soldiers in a side-room of the rebel safehouse in Act 1, Snake finds a discarded GSR on the floor.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The gun rack in Drebin's Stryker includes two GSRs, two unloaded Glock 18Cs, and in the rack further down a pair of SCAR-H CQC rifles and two copies of Snake's M4A1 Custom; beyond them is a barely-visible AK-102 and a pair of LAWs. Several of these weapons are low-detail since they are part of the Stryker model rather than copies of the normal model. The two boxes between the pistol and rifle racks are the generic model for "custom parts" and are used for both weapon accessories and accessory weapons such as the GP-30 and Masterkey.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As the system breaks down at the end of the first Act, a PMC soldier equipped with a GSR in his leg holster attempts to give Snake a hug. Note also the two large pouches for M67 hand grenades on his belt.]]
[[File:MGS4SIGGSR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny fires his GSR at FROG soldiers onboard Outer Haven.]]
[[File:MGS4SIGGSR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl picks up Johnny's GSR and fires it after he is wounded.]]
[[File:MGS4SIGGSR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mei Ling, Captain of the USS Missouri and returning support character from the first MGS, cradles her GSR as her ship is attacked.]]

==Springfield Operator==

A customized [[M1911_pistol_series#Springfield_Armory_M1911_-_A1|Springfield Operator]] is Old Snake's signature handgun in ''Metal Gear Solid 4'', and the weapon he most commonly has equipped during cutscenes; it is clearly designed to resemble the custom M1911 used by Big Boss during the previous game, though it is by no means identical. It is given to him for free (along with a [[Ruger Mk II Pistol]]) by Otacon early in the first Act of the game; Otacon comments that it was never integrated into the System, hence Snake's ability to use it before meeting Drebin. The Operator has the ability to mount both a tactical flashlight and a degradable suppressor, being one of only two pistols able to mount a suppressor and underbarrel accessory (the other being the Mark 23), and uses the very common .45 ACP round. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:Springfield Armory TRP.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Springfield Armory TRP Operator - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Snake_.45.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Old Snake's Springfield Operator.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Springfield Operator on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Otacon presents the Operator to Snake, with the suppressor installed. Oddly, it tends to not be installed during cutscenes; while this might conceivably be done in case Snake has no suppressors left, Snake has no problem using it when he has no .45 ACP ''ammunition'' left.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake checks over his Operator after being presented it, first unloading it and examining the slide, then the fit of the suppressor, and finally pulling the trigger to let the hammer fall on the empty chamber.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He's soon merrily testing it out on the Praying Mantis PMC soldiers.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Operator; note the handle of his Stun Knife in his left hand. He frequently reloads weapons with this in his hand, as a nod to the CQC knife-and-gun techniques in ''Metal Gear Solid 3''.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Encountering Drebin, Snake keeps his unsuppressed Operator trained on the Gun Launderer, not eager to trust someone who hangs around with a weird hairless monkey thing.]]
[[File:MGS4OldSnakeSpringerOp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aims his Operator at Liquid Ocelot at the end of Act 1, unable to get a shot off due to his nanomachines being interfered with by Liquid Ocelot's failed attempt to login to the System using Liquid Snake's DNA.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Operator-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aims his Operator at Drebin's weird naked monkey-creature "Little Gray" as he wonders where it all went wrong.]]
[[File:MGS4SpringerOp-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Liquid Ocelot:''' ''"When it comes to CQC, I have the upper hand."'' Liquid Ocelot holds Snake's Operator on him after disarming him at the end of Act 3.]]
[[File:MGS4SpringerOp-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Old Snake:''' ''"One last punishment I must endure: erase my genes, wipe this meme from the face of the Earth. This is my final mission."'' Snake puts the barrel of his Operator in his mouth when preparing to commit suicide, a scene that is viewable right from the beginning of the game and requires completion of the game to fully explain. This screenshot provides a clear view of the laser activation switch on the slide release, and the Bomar-style rear sights.]]
[[File:MGS4SpringerOp-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unable to commit suicide, Snake fires the only bullet into random space. Note that the slide locked back on an empty magazine follower, despite the fact that Snake only loaded one round in the chamber and then pocketed the magazine. This means the slide should be in battery.]]

=Submachine Guns=

This category in-game also includes the "Patriot" compact carbine, but that weapon is listed under assault rifles due to firing an intermediate round rather than a pistol round.

==FN P90==

The [[FN P90]] is the primary weapon of Liquid Ocelot's FROG commando unit and is also used by Laughing Octopus in-game; since the FROGs are a common enemy in the game, ammunition is fairly plentiful. The P90 correctly features an integral reflex sight on the carrying handle, and also has three accessory mounting points, able to fit a suppressor, laser aiming module and a tactical light. Unusually for a game, the 50-round polycarbonate magazine is correctly shown as translucent, and visibly empties as the weapon is fired in first person. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and if the "Drebin Points" option is enabled, it becomes the most expensive weapon of its type in that mode, thanks to its ease of use and plethora of customization options.

[[Image:FNP90Side.jpg|thumb|none|450px|FN P90 - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-P90.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FN P90 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-P90-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Liquid Ocelot's all-female special unit, the FROGs, carry P90s as standard-issue; this is in part a callback to the Arsenal Tengu troopers of ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2]]'', who wore similar armor and also wielded P90s. As with the Arsenal Tengus, the gas masks of the FROGs are apparently fake and offer them no protection against gas-based attacks.]]
[[File:MGS4P90-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Close up on the receiver of a suppressed P90. Looking down while lying prone with any gun gives this type of view.]]
[[Image:MGS4-P90-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the "Guns of the Patriots" sequence in Act 3, a group of FROG soldiers on Liquid's boat manage the impressive feat of firing their P90s for twenty solid seconds without ever once being shown reloading, implying they somehow managed to fit 300 rounds into a standard P90 magazine.]]
[[File:MGS4P90-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A FROG soldier firing her P90.]]
[[File:MGS4P90-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Close up on a FROG's P90.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5SD2==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5SD2]] can be purchased from Drebin and is equipped with an integral, non-degrading suppressor. However, the tradeoff is that it is one of the weakest weapons in the entire game, and uses the surprisingly uncommon 9x19mm round. This weapon is available in multiplayer, but cannot be customized. The appearance of this weapon is a reference to the "Integral" version of the original ''[[Metal Gear Solid]]'' for the Playstation 1 console that was sold only in Japan, where it was available on the Very Easy difficulty and had infinite ammunition.

[[Image:MP5SD5.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD2 - 9x19mm, The one in-game has the older S-E-F trigger group.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MP5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP5SD2 on the item menu.]]
[[File:MGS4MP5SD2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aiming down the sights on the MPSSD2.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP7A1==

The [[Heckler & Koch MP7A1]] is used by several of the PMC operatives in game. It can be first found and used by the player in Act 2 and can be equipped with a unique red dot sight or the ACOG scope. For whatever reason, the weapon is depicted ingame as being distinctly inferior to the P90, lacking any option to attach a suppressor, tactical light, or laser sight (all of which it can use in real life). It is also stuck with using a low-capacity 20-round magazine ingame (intended for use for when the MP7 is issued as a select-fire, armor-piercing, backup weapon you can holster), instead of its more appropriate 40-round magazine variant (intended for use when the MP7 is issued as a primary weapon).

[[Image:Hk mp7 b-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with Hensoldt RSA red dot sight - 4.6x30mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-MP7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP7A1 on the item menu.]]

==Izhmash PP-19 Bizon==

The [[Izhmash PP-19 Bizon]] can be purchased from Drebin; the game claims it to be a "new Russian submachine gun," even though it was twelve years old when the game came out and is sixteen years old in the game's universe; the version in-game is not even a current model, instead being based on the earliest production model. The version in game is chambered for 9x18mm Makarov, which translates into a 64-round magazine capacity. The Bizon cannot be customized in the game, though it can be used one-handed during the motorcycle chase in Act 3.

[[Image:Bizon1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Early PP-19 Bizon - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:MGS4-Bizon.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bizon on the item menu.]]

==MAC-10==

The [[MAC-10]] can be purchased from Drebin or found in Act 2. It can be equipped with a suppressor. Unlike most depictions, Snake actually uses both hands and the stock in-game.

[[Image:IngramMAC10.jpg|thumb|450px|none|MAC-10 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MGS4-M10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MAC-10 as "M10" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M10-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires his MAC-10 during the motorcycle sequence of Act 3; apparently Big Mama doesn't mind him firing unsuppressed fully automatic weapons right next to her ear.]]

==Skorpion Vz 82==

The [[Skorpion_SA#SA Vz. 82 Skorpion|SA Vz. 82 Skorpion]] is used by Paradise Lost resistance members riding motorcycles in the Eastern Europe section of the game (Act 3), and is given to Old Snake by Big Mama in the same level. While called the "Vz. 83" ingame, the game shows it as being chambered in 9x18mm Makarov rather than .380 ACP, making it a Vz. 82. It comes equipped with a visible laser sight.

Its comparatively low magazine capacity of 20 rounds, low stats, and inability to be customized, coupled with the fact that FN P90s can be obtained for free much earlier ingame, make it arguably a weapon hardly-chosen by most players, so it's largely for the nostalgia factor in singleplayer (the very similar [[Sa. Vz.61 Skorpion]] made an appearance in Metal Gear Solid 3), though players can still take advantage of the fact that it's the submachinegun with highest lock-on in the game, being especially useful for one-shotting enemies during the Act 3 chase scene. Multiplayer, however, is a different story, as it is the only firearm in its inventory slot to be available free of charge (if Drebin Points are enabled) for non-unique player characters, as well as possessing the longest auto-aim lock-on range of any weapon in multiplayer modes.

[[Image:Scorpion SA Vz 82.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA Vz. 82 Skorpion - 9x18mm Makarov.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Klobb.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Skorpion Vz 82 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Klobb-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Mama hands Snake a Vz 82 during the cutscene before the motorcycle escape sequence.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Klobb-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As usual, he inspects it before accepting.]]

=Shotguns=

Note: All shotguns in this game can use 00 buckshot, shotgun slugs, or non-lethal vortex ring ammunition.

== Knight's Armament MasterKey ==

A [[Knight's Armament Masterkey]] is available as an attachment for the "M4 Custom" only, and can be found in the hands of PMC search teams; curiously, they have it equipped in a standalone configuration with a pistol grip and stock, raising the question of why they aren't just using a regular full-size shotgun instead. The inferior tube magazine capacity and lower effective range would make it far less useful than a full-sized shotgun for general use, and for close quarters combat or door breaching a purpose-built short shotgun would be a far more logical choice than issuing a rifle accessory which needs to be attached to ''another'' accessory to actually function.

[[Image:M4masterkey01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M4A1 carbine with Masterkey shotgun - 5.56mm & 12 gauge]]
[[Image:Kacsbsa.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Masterkey in standalone configuration.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4CMasterkey.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Masterkey accessory shotgun mounted to the M4 Custom on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Masterkey.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Old Snake's M4 Custom in full recoil as he uses his Masterkey to ruin someone's day.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Masterkey-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Satisified for now, Old Snake reloads his Masterkey.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Masterkey-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Attaching an accessory shotgun to a standalone grip is rather like buying an iPod and then nailing it to the side of a desktop PC.]]

==Remington 870 Custom==

A heavily customized [[Remington 870]] can be purchased from Drebin or found in the second Act; it comes with a Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight as standard, and can also be equipped with an Aimpoint red dot sight or ACOG scope; if neither is fitted, it will have no sights at all, with Snake simply aiming along the top mounted-rail. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is the only weapon of its type in that mode if the "Drebin Points" option is not enabled.

[[Image:Model870P 14inlg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 Police "Entry Gun" with a Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight - 12 gauge. The version in ''MGS4'' is further customized with a top rail instead of iron sights and a collapsible stock similar to the one used by the Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-870C.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"870 custom" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-870C-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A FROG reels in confusion as Snake aims a pump-action RIS rail at her. "It's a shotgun, I swear!"]]
[[Image:MGS4-870C-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With the Aimpoint scope attached, the 870 Custom at least looks a bit more respectable.]]

==Saiga 12==

The [[Saiga-12]] can be purchased from Drebin. It is the only weapon of its type capable of semiautomatic fire, as well as the only one that uses a detachable box magazine (with a capacity of 8 rounds); along with very clear iron sights, this makes it distinctly superior to the other shotguns in more or less every regard. This weapon is available in multiplayer, but cannot be customized in the game.

[[Image:Saiga 12k-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Saiga-12K - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:MGS4-Saiga12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saiga 12 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Saiga12-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finding the Advent Palace hotel's kitchen infested with FROGs, Snake takes prompt action before an inspector shows up and shuts the place down.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Saiga12-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Having done his bit for the community, Snake reloads his Saiga 12.]]

=="Twin Barrel"==

A [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Short barreled Side by Side Shotgun (Sawed Off)|sawed off side-by-side double barrel shotgun]], that can either be found in the game or purchased from Drebin. For some reason, Old Snake is restricted to using it with a one-handed grip. He can also only fire both barrels at once, though this is due to the shotgun only having a single trigger for both barrels.

[[Image:SS311A sawed-off-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sawed-off Baikal side-by-side shotgun - 12 gauge. Similar to the ''MGS4'' "Twin Barrel," though the latter has only a single trigger.]]
[[Image:MGS4-shotty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Twin Barrel" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Shotty-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Paradise Lost member holds a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun on Snake as the old man breaks into their headquarters.]]

=Assault Rifles / Battle Rifles=

==AK-102==

The [[AK-47#AK-102|AK-102]] is used by the rebel forces in the Middle East section (Act 1), and is Solid Snake's first weapon in the game (next to Solid Snake right after the first cutscene after the opening). It can be equipped with a [[GP-30]] grenade launcher. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and if the "Drebin Points" option is enabled, the AK-102 becomes the cheapest assault rifle in that mode.

[[Image:AK102.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AK-102 carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK-102 on the item menu, fitted with a GP30 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the first Act, Snake only manages a short burst from his original militia-issued AK before it jams up on him, leaving him to discard it.]]
[[File:MGS4AK102-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires the AK-102 at Praying Mantis PMC troops.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his second AK-102. There are two slightly different AK-102 models used in game; the "hero" version used only in cutscenes has modeled bullets in the magazine, while the in-game is empty.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads the "hero" AK model, with a more detailed magazine.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Menaced by Gekko, Snake still has time to strike a dramatic pose. He discards this AK shortly after this.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake encounters his third and last AK-102. Finding it on the ground next to a dead soldier, he carefully checks it for booby-traps before picking it up.]]

==AN-94==

The [[AN-94]] can be found in a shack at the beginning of Act 2 or purchased from Drebin. It can be equipped with a [[GP-30]] grenade launcher. The game correctly simulates the weapon's unusual mode of fully-automatic fire by first firing a 1,800 RPM two-round burst, before cycling the following rounds at 600 RPM. While it is powerful and accurate, it features a very poor iron sight and 5.45x39mm ammunition pickups are basically non-existent, with only a handful in the fourth Act. Its presence is a reference to ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', where Russian mercenaries under the command of Sergei Gurlukovich were equipped with the AN-94 during their attack on the Big Shell; unlike its previous incarnation, however, the AN-94 in this game cannot mount a tactical flashlight.

[[Image:Russian AN-94 Abakan Nikonov 5.45x39mm assault rifle 3.jpg|thumb|450px|none|AN-94 Abakan Nikonov assault rifle - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94.jpg|thumb|600px|none|AN94 on the item menu, equipped with a GP-30 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94-3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Snake holds an AN-94 fitted with a GP-30 grenade launcher as he waits for an elevator in the abandoned Shadow Moses base's nuclear warhead storage building.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|While waiting, he amuses himself by using the hideously tiny iron sight of the AN-94 to shoot at some of the warheads that the US military left lying around when the base was abandoned in an extremely sensible fashion. Apparently the alteration to his nanomachines that prevented him doing so before is long past its shelf life.]]
[[Image:MGS4-AN94-2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Luckily, the lethal radiation leak this used to cause has apparently also passed its shelf life and the warheads no longer care about being shot at, leaving Snake to smugly reload his weapon.]]

== AKS-74U ==

During the bizarre live-action introduction sequences, one of the channels shows a PMC advertisement with two people in Middle Eastern-style robes hovering in mid-air as the camera circles around them. The one in black is armed with an [[AK-74#AKS-74U|AKS-74U]].

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U (also referred to as the "AKSU" or 'Krinkov') - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AKS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A strangely-dressed pair of live-action combatants duel in the air, one holding an AKS-74U.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A second shot of the AKS-74U. This seems to be one of those adverts where nobody can actually figure out what the product was after seeing it.]]

== FAMAS ==

The [[FAMAS]] is not usable in the game, but appears in flashbacks to ''Metal Gear Solid'', as well as the brief "nightmare" sequence of ''MGS1'' gameplay.

[[Image:FAMAS F2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS-G1 - 5.56x45mm. Older version of the G2 with magazine and magazine release system from FAMAS F1]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAMAS.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Meryl Silverburgh holds a FAMAS on Solid Snake during a flashback to the first game.]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAMAS-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|During the nightmare sequence at the start of Act 4, Snake is treated to some authentic ''MGS1'' gameplay, with the guards still armed with their low-detail FAMAS-G1s as in the original. Note the screen border; this is authentic, and suggests this sequence is the actual PS1 code being run in emulation mode by the PS3.]]

==FN FAL==

The [[FN FAL]], labeled the FAL Carbine, is seen in the hands of the rebel forces in the Eastern Europe section of the game (Act 3). It can be purchased from Drebin like most other firearms in the game. Its battle rifle cartridge makes it more powerful shot-for-shot than the ingame assault rifles, and its low rate of fire combined with the long range of its round allows effective full-auto fire from a much longer range, but it can't be customized.

[[Image:FN FAL 50 00.jpg|thumb|450px|none|FN FAL - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAL.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FN FAL on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAL-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Having knocked out several Paradise Lost members, Snake brandishes a FAL he took from one and his Stun Knife, preparing to lay some CQC down.]]
[[Image:MGS4-FAL-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Paradise Lost group prepare to move out as Big Mama delivers a ridiculous speech about how first-person shooter games have trained her "children" to be soldiers. Good thing it's not third-person stealth games that did that.]]

==FN SCAR-H CQC==

The short-barreled CQC variant of the [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|FN SCAR-H]], referred to under its SOCOM "Mk. 17" designation, is the standard battle rifle used by the PMC troops ingame. It can be found fairly early on in Act 1 (simply by killing, subduing, sedating, or disarming PMC troops) up to Act 3, and can be upgraded with various optics, an AN/PEQ-5 laser sight, a flashlight and one of two vertical foregrips; it cannot, however, mount either of the NATO underbarrel accessory weapons or a suppressor. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:2fff2537c0.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Third Generation FN SCAR-H CQC - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The FN SCAR-H on the item menu. Note the fire selector is always on semi-auto.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SCAR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his SCAR-H.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SCAR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Praying Mantis PMC soldiers retreat as "Gekko" unmanned vehicles are called in to take their place.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SCAR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|At the end of the first Act, Snake sneaks into the main base of the Praying Mantis PMC. Circumstances conspire to make this a slightly less bad idea than would normally be expected.]]

==Heckler & Koch G3A3==

The [[Heckler & Koch G3|Heckler & Koch G3A3]] is seen in the hands of the leftist insurgents in the South America section of the game (Act 2). It can also be purchased via Drebin like most other firearms in the game, but cannot be customized. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:HKG3A3.jpg|thumb|450px|none|HK G3A3 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Boatanchor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|G3A3 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-G3-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake uses the ACOG sight of his SCAR-H to admire the trigger discipline of a rebel soldier with a G3A3.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM8 Carbine==

The [[Heckler & Koch XM8]] is used by the Rat Patrol and other US troops in game, curiously still called XM8 even though it has obviously been formally adopted by the US military in ''Metal Gear Solid 4's'' world. It can be found by the player in a secluded area in Act 2, but cannot be purchased from Drebin. The version seen in game has an early XM8 flash hider with the rest of the features of the later model. It comes with a built-in red dot sight and can be equipped with an XM320 grenade launcher, but no other accessories. Meryl's team each have different versions of the rifle, two of which are not available to the player; Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki uses the compact carbine configuration, Johnathan uses the standard one with a grenade launcher, and Ed has the designated marksman variant. The standard version of the XM8 is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:XM8.JPG|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch XM8 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Xm8 rightmed.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Early Heckler & Koch XM8 - 5.56x45mm NATO. Note "duckbill" flash hider and lack of four oval PCAP holes.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SpaceshipM320.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM8 with an M320 grenade launcher fitted, on the item menu. Note it uses an early "duckbill" flash hider rather than the later model's "birdcage," but has the later version's PCAP accessory mounting holes in the handguard.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The XM8, as in real life, features a red dot optic as standard; here Snake uses it to take out one of the PMC soldiers guarding the power station.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the charging handle of his XM8 after a reload.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnathan has a lie down with his XM8 with XM320. This is what is technically known as a bad idea.]]
[[File:MGS4XM8-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US Army soldier tries to pull the trigger on his XM8, but the ID lock has been changed by Liquid Ocelot, rendering the weapon useless.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine==

The [[Heckler_%26_Koch_XM8#Heckler_.26_Koch_XM8_Compact_Carbine|Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine]], the shortest configuration of the XM8, is used by Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki, a member of Meryl Silverburgh's "Rat Patrol" FOXHound unit. While Heckler & Koch marketed this version as the "PDW" configuration, it fires a full-sized assault rifle round, therefore is classified here as a rifle. It is unavailable in singleplayer, but the Johnny Sasaki unique character in multiplayer can use it, and is the only player character in that mode who can select it at the beginning of a match or when respawning. In this mode, it retains the standard variation's red dot sight, but cannot be customized.

[[Image:XM8CC.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch XM8 Compact Carbine with full stock - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8PDW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Old Snake:''' ''"You haven't even taken the safety off, rookie."'' '''Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki:''' ''"Careful, I'm no rookie! I'm a 10-year vet!"'' Johnny then bears out Snake's accusation by visually inspecting his weapon's safety rather than just flicking his thumb up and forward to ensure the safety is not still engaged or disengage it if it is.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8PDW-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The result is fairly predictable, with Snake ambushing Johnny via CQC techniques before turning Johnny's weapon against him and his comrades. Note that since there's only one model for the weapon used in this cutscene, the safety is ''still'' on.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8PDW-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny shows off the very "Future Force Warrior" look of the FOXHound unit's gear as he holds his XM8 Compact Carbine, including a backpack computer unit, a computer monitor integrated into his "shades," and a keyboard attached to his forearm. One very important piece of gear the Rat Patrol never wears, however, is a helmet.]]

==M4A1==

A customized [[M16_rifle_series#M4.2FM4A1_Carbine|M4A1]] is Solid Snake's assault rifle of choice and is given to him early in Act 1 by Drebin. In the first trailers, he instead steals it off a PMC soldier, and it is equipped with an EOTech sight. In the actual game, you can attach an Aimpoint red dot sight, ACOG scope, Surefire tactical flashlight, visible laser module, two types of vertical grip, Remington 870 Masterkey underbarrel shotgun, and an H&K XM320 grenade launcher. The sheer number of attachments, combined with excellent accuracy, low recoil and the abundance of 5.56mm ammo, makes this one of the best rifles available for a good bit into Act 3. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

Drebin makes a series of patently false claims about the M4A1 as shown; he tells Snake the barrel is free-floating ("of course") despite that the weapon's handguard is clearly not a free-float type, and claims the weapon is "popular with the big PMCs" despite none ever using it, and claiming it is "the official carbine model used by US army" even though in the fiction the US Army is shown to have adopted the XM8. In early preview shots PMC soldiers were shown carrying M4A1s, but in the finished game they use SCAR-H CQC rifles.

[[Image:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|450px|none|M4A1 Carbine - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4CMasterkey.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 on the item menu, fitted with a Masterkey accessory shotgun. Unusually for a videogame, mounting an optic will show the weapon with the sights folded down rather than removed entirely.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake is presented with the M4 by Drebin when they first meet as a gift to welcome him to the services of the Gun Launderer. Always one to look a possibly exploding horse in the mouth, Snake proceeds to thoroughly examine it. Note that despite Drebin's claim here, none of the PMCs use the M4 Custom at any point in the game.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake holds his M4 Custom, giving a good look at the rail handguard, flip-up sights and the high-detail magazine of the "hero" cutscene model.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After a minor diversion involving Snake's old nanomachines preventing the weapon firing (via a component he apparently didn't notice while stripping the weapon), Snake fires the M4 Custom.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M4-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the non-cutscene M4 reveals a distinct lack of bullets in the magazine.]]
[[File:MGS4M4Custom-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake prepares to squeeze off a shot a Vamp with his M4. Note that the M4 selector is properly set to Semi-Auto fire, but in gameplay the model selector is always set to Full-Auto, even if you select a different firing mode.]]
[[File:MGS4M4Custom-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aiming his M4 at Vamp. Despite being right-handed, Snake does a pro-job of setting up left-handed to remain behind cover, and makes good use of the wall for stability. Shortly thereafter he resumes his normal right-handed stance while turning the gun sideways, ejection port up, to fire at the PMCs guarding Vamp and Naomi.]]
[[Image:MGS4M4A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Old Snake wielding the M4A1 with an EOTech sight in early trailers; this accessory is not available in the final game.]]

=="Patriot"==

This custom full-auto-only AR-15-pattern carbine, seemingly based on an M231 Firing Port Weapon with the barrel significantly shortened so the whole weapon resembles a [[Rocky Mountain Arms Patriot Pistol]], is seen briefly at the end of the game. It can be unlocked by earning the Big Boss emblem after the end of the game or by a password. Its most notable trait is that it has unlimited ammo and never needs to be reloaded (the ingame reason is how its Beta-C magazine, misnamed in the previous game as the "feed mechanism," vaguely resembles the sideways-8 infinity symbol); it also plays part of the "Snake Eater" theme from ''Metal Gear Solid 3'' when aimed. It is classified as an SMG, despite firing an assault rifle round, which would in reality make it an ultracompact carbine. The Patriot cannot be customized ingame.

[[Image:Wm 1119951786543207.jpg|thumb|none|400px| The Rocky Mountain Arms M16-Style Pistol - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Patriot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Patriot" on the item menu.]]
[[File:MGS4Patriot-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "Patriot" being fired on the roof of Advent Palace. This is the only weapon where the Bandanna is unnecessary to accomplish having infinite ammo, yet the player chose to equip it anyway.]]
[[File:MGS4Patriot-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Boss drops his "Patriot" in front of Snake.]]

=Sniper Rifles / Designated Marksman Rifles=

==Barrett M82A2==

The [[Barrett_M82#Barrett_M82A2|M82A2]] can be purchased from Drebin, is Hideo Kojima's personal favorite, and is used the US military forces in Act 3 and later by Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki during Act 5, a curious weapon choice when it is clear that a weapon capable of extended automatic fire would be much better suited to the particular environment he's literally being thrown into. It is also exclusively available to the Akiba special character in multiplayer.

[[Image:Barrettm82a2.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Barrett M82A2 - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Barrett M82A2 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US soldier aims a Barrett M82A2 at Liquid's boat from the side door of a helicopter during Act 3.]]
[[File:MGS4M82A2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another U.S. soldier aims his Barrett M82A2 off the pier.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He is one of many, many, many soldiers and Marines aiming at said boat. Strangely, most of them aim straight forward even though the boat is ''below'' the bridge they're standing on.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Barrett-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|At the start of the final Act, Johnny Sasaki holds his M82A2 as he prepares to launch onto Outer Haven using the giant man-catapult which Drebin owns for some inexplicable reason.]]
[[File:MGS4M82A2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny aims his Barrett M82A2 at FROG soldiers onboard Outer Haven.]]
[[File:MGS4M82A2-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Johnny fires his M82A2 at the FROGs.]]

==DSR-1==

The [[DSR-1]], a bolt-action sniper rifle in a bullpup layout, is used by FROG snipers and can be bought from Drebin; doing so is rather pointless, however, since Old Snake is automatically given an unlocked DSR-1 at the end of Act 2, after he uses it in a cutscene to free Raiden from Vamp's clutches. The weapon is loud and features a fairly slow bolt-action; this along with a lack of customization options places it distinctly behind the Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR and VSS in terms of versatility. The ingame caliber is specified to be 7.62x67mm, making it .300 Winchester Magnum. It is used by a few PMC and FROG snipers, the latter resulting in one of the game's more memorably unrealistic scenes in Act 3. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:Dsr1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|DSR-Precision GmbH DSR-1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|DSR-1 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the bolt of his DSR-1.]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the motorcycle escape sequence in the third Act, the game uses a "cinematic" camera any time Snake isn't aiming; at one point, a FROG sniper is seen firing her DSR-1 from a distant building. Note the FROGs place the scope against the side of their head rather than lining it up with their eyes; in addition, in this scene the DSR-1 ejects a spent casing immediately, without the bolt being operated.]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Big Mama reels from the FROG sniper's bullet. As noted above, if the player was using their weapon they will have no idea why this actually happened. Which is probably for the best...]]
[[Image:MGS4-DSR-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...Since apparently Big Mama isn't up on the whole thing where being shot with a .300 Win Mag is supposed to actually harm you in some way.]]

==Heckler & Koch PSG-1==

While not usable in the game, the "press X" flashback after defeating Crying Wolf shows Sniper Wolf's death scene in the original game, with the defeated sniper holding her signature [[Heckler_%26_Koch_G3#Heckler_.26_Koch_PSG-1|Heckler & Koch PSG-1]].

[[Image:H&KPSG01.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch PSG-1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-PSG1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sadly, the static and blur filters thrown over these flashback images mean this is the only frame of Wolf's PSG-1 where the barrel isn't distorted.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter==

A [[Heckler_%26_Koch_XM8#Heckler_.26_Koch_XM8_Sharpshooter_Rifle|Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter Rifle]] is used by the character "Ed," a member of Meryl Silverburgh's "Rat Patrol" FOXHound unit. It is never available to the player.

[[Image:XM8sharp.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Heckler & Koch XM8 Sharpshooter Rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8Sharp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ed checks over his XM8 Sharpshooter. Note Ed's weapon is fitted with the same Insight ISM-V scope as the other members of his unit, rather than the x4 magnifying scope the Sharpshooter variant is supposed to use.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8Sharp-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Meryl, Ed and Johnathan demonstrate the capabilities of the "System" by taking down three FROG soldiers in perfect unison, using their shared senses.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM8Sharp-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Hearing a mysterious sound coming from all around, Ed and Johnathan apprehensively aim their weapons at particularly scary-looking parts of a derelict building.]]

== Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ==

The [[M14_Rifle#Mk_14_Mod_0_Enhanced_Battle_Rifle|Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ]] (Referred to incorrectly as the "M14EBR") is a modern variant of the [[M14 Rifle]]. It is used by PMC marksmen in-game and can be purchased from Drebin. It has semiautomatic and fully automatic rates of fire and can be equipped with a suppressor, laser sight, and flashlight. Its fully automatic fire mode makes it very useful even in short range combat, and the fact that it's available early on, combined with its extensive list of modifications, makes it one of the best guns in the game. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip - 7.62x51 NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"M14 EBR" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the first Act, rebel soldiers are shown trying to storm an urban area guarded by a PMC fireteam, including sniper / spotter teams; the snipers are armed with Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifles.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A second sniper team, with the marksman also armed with a Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M14-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR.]]

==Mosin Nagant Sniper==

A modified [[Mosin Nagant]] sniper rifle with a paratrooper stock and pistol grip can be purchased from Drebin in-game. It is the same rifle used by The End in MGS3 and is modified to only fire tranquilizer darts, though in this game this also includes fictional "Emotion" darts which cause targets to experience one of the game's four psychological states (Cry, Rage, Laugh or Scream). This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:MosinNagantM9130Sniper.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Mosin Nagant M91/30 Sniper Rifle - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mosin.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom Mosin-Nagant on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mosin-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake shows off The End's Mosin Nagant, which Drebin acquired somehow.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mosin-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake operates the bolt of his Mosin Nagant, correctly shown as the turned-down bolt handle of a sniper version.]]

==SVD Dragunov-S==

The SVD Dragunov-S, a modernized, shortened version of the [[SVD Dragunov]] intended for paratroop use is seen in the hands of militiamen and rebel snipers in Acts 1 and 2. The weapon cannot be customized or mount any kind of suppressor, but the ammunition is relatively cheap and the weapon a semi-automatic rather than bolt-action, making it a middle-of-the-road weapon. The scope features an error: the number in the stadiametric rangefinder indicating the height of the reference target is "10" rather than the correct "1.7;" either that or in Snake's world shooting at 32-foot tall monsters is more important than shooting at infantry. This weapon is available in multiplayer.

[[Image:SVD-S-Rifle.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Dragunov-S shortened sniper rifle intended for paratroopers - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SVD on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nobody had expected Snake to disguise himself as Venom.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As ever, Snake can't stand the idea of having a round lazing around in the chamber of one of his long guns after going to all the effort of reloading it, so gives the charging handle a yank to send it on its way.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As with the other sniper weapons, the SVD's scope has two zoom levels, the reticle slightly altering to take account of this. This is low-power...]]
[[Image:MGS4-SVD-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...And this is high. Note the windage / lead marks have changed.]]

==VSS Vintorez==

The [[VSS Vintorez]] appears in the game, and can only be found in a room in Act 2; it cannot be bought from Drebin at any point in the game. It has an integral (non-degradable) suppressor, and like the M14EBR is capable of fully-automatic fire, though its shallower 10-round magazine can become a liability in close-range firefights. Since it uses the same reticle model, it duplicates the Dragunov's error of showing the reference height for the target as 10 metres instead of 1.7 metres. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is capable of firing tranquilizer rounds in multiplayer only.

[[Image:Vss1.jpg|thumb|450px|none|VSS Vintorez with PSO-1 scope - 9x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|VSS on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Out and about in Millenium Park, Snake aims his VSS Vintorez.]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake uses the scope of his VSS to help out his friend. "Well, that's a load off my mind. Thanks, Snake!"]]
[[Image:MGS4-VSS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the VSS.]]

=Machine Guns=

As was the case in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]]'' with the [[Stoner 63]], player characters firing machine guns continuously will yell in classic ''"[[Rambo]]"'' tradition. Weapons in this category all have a strange ammunition display quirk; the ammunition bar only shows fifty rounds, with every tenth round marked white. This will scroll as the gun is fired and only count down when 49 or fewer rounds are left on the belt.

==Heckler & Koch HK21E==

The [[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK_series_machine_guns#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK21|Heckler & Koch HK21E]] is seen in the hands of a rebel militiaman in the early portion of the Middle East section of the game (Act 1). In a conversation that can be overheard if the player remains hidden or has earned the trust of the rebels, he claims that it is an enemy gun, yet strangely none of the PMC troopers in the level are seen using it. The rebel militiaman also refers to it as "the very latest model", when in actuality the weapon was designed in the 1980s, some 30 years before the events of the game take place. It can be stolen in this location, or can be purchased via Drebin like most other firearms.

[[Image:HK21E.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch HK21E - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MGS4-HK21E.jpg|thumb|none|600px|HK21E on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-HK21E-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A rebel soldier brags about his "laundered" HK21E, ignoring several rules of firearm safety by waving it at his friend, even if his finger isn't on the trigger.]]
[[Image:MGS4-HK21E-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads an HK21E as a FROG trooper self-incinerates nearby. It's never particularly clear why they do this, so it's probably nanomachines. Note that the belt of the old drum vanishes just as Snake detaches it; this is the new drum being put in place.]]

==Kalashnikov PKM==

The [[PK Machine Gun]] is seen in the hands of militia and rebels in Act 2. at the time this is obtained, this gun is a good 40-50% more powerful at close range than any other automatic weapon. However, ammo is uncommon and expensive and it can't be customized.

[[Image:PKM-mg.jpg|thumb|450px|none|PKM with classic (most seen) version of the flash hider - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PKM on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake opens up on Pieuvre Armement PMC soldiers with his PKM, angered at the PMC's name being so hard to spell.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|His fury abated, it's time to reload.]]
[[Image:MGS4-PKM-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rebel soldier thankfully realizes that Snake pointing a SCAR-H at his groin is just the old man's way of saying good morning.]]

==M60E4==

The [[M60 machine gun|M60E4]] is used by the PMC operatives in game. It can be equipped with optics, foregrips, laser sight, and flashlight. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is the only weapon of its type in that mode.

[[Image:M60E4-mk43.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M60E4 Mk.43 with picatinny rails, RIS foregrip, and ammo belt - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M60E4 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sights up a Pieuvre Armement PMC soldier armed with an M60E4.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake revisits Shadow Moses, bringing a touch more firepower this time.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Having foolishly alerted the million billion Dwarf Gekko which have apparently colonized the Tank Hangar, Snake does the only reasonable thing, whipping out his M60E4 and getting started making a big pile of scrap metal.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M60-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Werewolf PMC appears to be trying to deploy more Dwarf Gekko drones than a potential enemy has bullets.]]

==Mk. 46 Mod. 0==

The [[FN_Minimi#Mk_46_Mod_0|Mk. 46 Mod. 0]] can be purchased from Drebin; it is mislabeled as a Mod 1, but has the 12 o'clock rail on the handguard that is not present on the Mod 1. It features the same customization as the M60, but it's much lighter and fires the less powerful 5.56x45mm cartridge.

[[Image:Mk46.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Mk. 46 Mod. 0 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk46.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Mk. 46 Mod.1" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk46-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake starts to reload the Mk. 46 by pulling back the charging handle, giving a good view of the 12 o'clock rail on the handguard; this shows the weapon is actually a Mod 0. Despite its inclusion, there is no accessory that can be mounted on this rail.]]
[[File:MGS4Mk46Mod0-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake unloads his Mk. 46 on PMCs while atop Drebin's Stryker.]]
[[File:MGS4Mk46Mod0-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his Mk. 46 in the hallway at Shadow Moses where the Cyborg Ninja's infamous massacre took place.]]

=Launchers=

==FGM-148 Javelin==

The [[FGM-148 Javelin]] is found in Act 1 and can be purchased from Drebin. It is erroneously shown as a SACLOS device requiring full-course guidance by the operator, with Snake discarding the entire launcher including the CLU after every shot and pulling out a fresh Javelin from more or less nowhere; it also cannot be used in top-attack mode by the player. Most of the time it is used by NPCs it is seen being used in an incorrect direct-fire mode; in real life, even shots fired in this mode start their flight with a rapid climb, while in game the missile flies straight forwards. The only time it is shown firing correctly is during Act 1, when a group of hidden PMC soldiers will fire missiles in top-attack mode to destroy a rebel BMP-3 IFV if the player protects it for long enough.

It is never at all clear ''why'' it operates the way it does; presumably, the lack of lock-on capability is to seperate the weapon functionally from the Stinger, and the SACLOS guidance intended to be reminiscent of ''MGS1'' and ''MGS2's'' fly-by-wire "Nikita" missile launcher, but this doesn't really explain why the resulting mechanics were given to a Javelin launcher rather than a fictional ATGM system.

[[Image:Javalin.jpg|thumb|450px|none|FGM-148 Javelin - 127mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FGM-148 Javelin on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake moves into position with a Javelin during the second Act, preparing to provide the rebels with a touch more firepower.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sighting up a PMC Stryker through the scope of the Javelin. In theory, it's possible to top-attack by guiding the round up and then down, but this offers no meaningful advantage over direct fire.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With the Stryker destroyed, Snake reloads by throwing the entire launcher away and pulling another one out of thin air. Apparently it doesn't occur to him to re-use the $80,000 Command Launch Unit. Note that Snake can carry up to ''fifty'' complete launchers; this means his invisible backpack has a carrying capacity exceeding one ton.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sights up a PMC Javelin operator during the first Act. With due dilligence, it's possible to escort the mildly suicidal BMP-3 past every launcher...]]
[[Image:MGS4-Javelin-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...Whereupon a hidden Praying Mantis soldier suddenly remembers how the Javelin actually works.]]

==FIM-92 Stinger==

The [[FIM-92A Stinger]] can be purchased from Drebin, and is also found in the back of the truck in the Nuclear Warhead Storage Building, Floor 1, in Act 4. Unlike previous games where it was reloaded in a completely unspecified manner, in ''MGS4'' Snake will discard the launcher after firing and pull another one from thin air. As per series norms, the Stinger is incorrectly shown as a strange all-purpose missile, able to lock on to aircraft, ground vehicles, and even infantry.

[[Image:-0976t.jpg|thumb|none|450px|FIM-92A Stinger - 70mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FIM-92A Stinger on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With a determined look on his face, Snake clutches a Stinger as he advances on the Confinement Facility. As with the Javelin, being old apparently doesn't stop him lugging two thousand pounds of Stingers around.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake readies a Stinger as his previous one fails to take down a PMC helicopter. Reloading before impact broke the previous round's lock-on, leaving it to fly off aimlessly.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Stinger-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The helicopter is not nearly as lucky the second time around.]]

==GP-30==

The [[GP-series grenade launcher|GP-30 grenade launcher]] can be attached to the AK-102 and AN-94. It can be found in the Advent Palace Hotel in Act 1, in a secret room at the start of Act 2, or bought from Drebin. It can be used in multiplayer on the AK-102 if Drebin Points are enabled. The GP-30 correctly does not share ammunition with the other 40mm grenade launchers (as it uses caseless VOG-25 grenades, which are incompatible with 40mm NATO grenade launchers); in game, it can only use high explosive rounds.

[[Image:Gp-30 ak-74.jpg|thumb|none|500px|GP-30 grenade launcher mounted on AK-74 - 40mm & 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-AK102.jpg|thumb|none|600px|AK-102 on the item menu, fitted with a GP-30 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GP30-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads the GP-30 mounted under his AN-94 assault rifle.]]
[[Image:MGS4-GP30.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake finds a GP-30 in the Advent Palace Hotel. As noted previously, this "Custom Parts" box item is used to represent any accessory weapon or weapon accessory.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM25 Mock-Up==

An early mock-up of the [[Heckler & Koch XM25]] made for demonstration purposes is shown in game as the actual weapon. A semi-automatic grenade launcher chambered in 25mm, it fires airbursting HEAB (High Explosive Air Bursting) rounds, which function rather like the PK rockets in ''Battlefield 2142''; while the weapon is held normally they are simply impact detonated, but scoping shows a display with an always-on rangefinder. Pressing up or down on the D-pad freezes at the currently displayed range, with further presses adjusting the detonation distance up or down. It can be found on the catwalk of one of the control towers in Act 4, and is the only heavy weapon usable during the motorcycle chase in Act 3.

[[Image:Xm25 3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch XM25 mock-up - 25 x 40mm. This is a non-firing demonstrator which looks substantially different to the final version.]]
[[Image:ATKXM25.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Final XM25 for comparison - 25 x 40mm. The version in ''MGS4'' was clearly based on the former.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM25 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires his XM25 in over-shoulder mode; fired like this, the grenades are impact detonation only.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Using the scope, on the other hand, allows the HEAB rounds to be used properly. The two range figures to the right are the range to the object currently being aimed at (white) and the current detonation distance (red). It fires in impact mode until the D-pad is touched to fix and then alter the range. The launcher "forgets" the set range if Snake stops aiming down the sight.]]
[[Image:MGS4-XM25-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake reloads his XM25 as he tries to ignore what Johnny Sasaki is currently doing nearby.]]

==Heckler & Koch XM320==

The [[Heckler & Koch M320|Heckler & Koch XM320]] grenade launcher is the underbarrel launcher for the M4 Custom and XM8 rifle; it lacks the MP7-style folding front grip added to the production M320, and therefore is correctly labelled in the game, even if it makes little sense in-universe for it to still have an XM- designation. It can be purchased from Drebin, and is also carried by some PMC members in stand-alone form in the South America portion of the game; it cannot be used by the player in this form. The XM320 has four ammo types; it can fire HE rounds, white phosphorous, stun grenades and smoke rounds. The attachment is also available in multiplayer.

[[Image:XM320.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch XM320 with optional telescoping stock - 40mm. Note the lack of a front grip.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SpaceshipM320.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM320 grenade launcher mounted to an XM8 rifle on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M320-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Assaulted by Pieuvre Armement PMC soldiers, Snake loads a white phosphorous round into the XM320 mounted to his XM8.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M320-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He stops being assaulted immediately afterward.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M320-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Later, he encounters two more PMC soldiers defending the Confinement Facility with their standalone XM320s. Thankfully, PMC soldiers can only use high explosive rounds in their launchers.]]

==M72A3 LAW==

The [[M72 LAW]] is used by a small number of rebels in Act 2.

[[Image:M72A2LAW.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M72A2 LAW - 66mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M72A3 LAW on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake comes across a rebel soldier with his M72 at the ready during the game's second Act.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Taking aim down the sights of an M72A3 LAW. Or rather, the sight; the weapon is incorrectly shown with the player's point of view in front of Snake's right hand, using only the front sight with the rear one not visible. To actually do this, Snake would have to be reaching back over his own shoulder with his right hand.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake discards a spent LAW and extends another; the ground model is actually a closed tube, meaning the tube instantly collapses as it leaves Snake's hands.]]
[[Image:MGS4-LAW-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As Drebin moves to give Snake a shot of suppressor Nanomachines to let him use non-ID guns, two low-detail LAWs are visible in the weapon rack of his Stryker. These are low-detail because they are part of the Stryker model itself rather than copies of the normal in-world model.]]

==MGL-140==

The [[Milkor MGL]] appears as the "MGL-140," it is used by Raging Raven and is acquired by Solid Snake upon defeating her. It shares the ammunition reserve of the XM320, and can use the same four ammunition types: HE fragmentation, white phosphorous, "flashbang" stun rounds and smoke rounds.

[[Image:MGL32.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M32 MGL in desert tan finish fitted with Armson OEG reflex sight - 40mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MGL-140 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Raging Raven flies overhead during the introduction of the B&B Corps in the first Act, showing off her MGL-140 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Later, in the third Act, the MGL gets a closeup as Raven fires a grenade at the van Snake and Big Mama are escorting.]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Finally getting her boss fight in Act 3, Raven has her pre-battle speech...]]
[[Image:MGS4-MGL-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...During which, for reasons known only to himself, Snake doesn't shoot her. Perhaps he's marvelling at how this isn't even the weirdest thing that's happened to him ''today''.]]
[[File:MGS4MilkorMGL-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake collects Raven's MGL-140 after defeating her.]]

==RPG-7==

The [[RPG-7]] is used by the rebels in the first Act, and a large number of unlocked RPG-7s are present throughout the first stage, seemingly primarily to give the player some quick Drebin Points due to their high trade-in value. This weapon is available in multiplayer, and is the only one of its type in that mode.

[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg|thumb|450px|none|RPG-7 - 40mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG.jpg|thumb|600px|none|RPG-7 on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A rebel aims his RPG-7 during ''MGS4's'' first Act.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake fires on a Stryker using the PGO-7 scope of his RPG-7; the illuminated red dot at the aim point is obscured here by the flare of the rocket's sustainer motor.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake starts to reload his RPG-7, showing off the PGO-7 scope.]]
[[Image:MGS4-RPG-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake finds a box of RPG-7 ammunition lurking around in the rebel base in Act 1. This is the generic pickup item used for all rocket launcher ammunition.]]

=Thrown / Placed=

==Airsoft gas charger grenade==

A grenade with a thin, smooth cylindrical body is used as the model for both the "flashbang" stun grenades and the game's fictional electronic warfare "chaff" grenades. This appears to be based on a grenade-shaped gas bottle for Airsoft guns, such as the one shown below. Stun grenades can be found throughout the game or bought from Drebin, and stun all enemies within a fixed radius who can see them while also causing an instant alert if there wasn't one already. The Chaff Grenade is treated as a "secret" weapon; only a handful can be found during the entire game, usually in out-of-the-way places, and Drebin never sells them; they are basically a short-duration EMP-like effect rather flimsily explained as strips of metal which are spread throughout the entire current area via magic. Using one temporarily disables security cameras, alarms and enemy radios, and temporarily paralyses any drone vehicles present. This lasts until the magic fades and all the strips of metal return to wherever they came from in the first place.

[[Image:DAM116A101.jpg|thumb|none|300px|EAIMING "M116A1 Distraction Device Grenade," an Airsoft gun gas charger built to resemble a hand grenade. "M116A1" is actually the US army's code for a simulation hand grenade with a paper body, used in training.]]
[[Image:MGS4-StunG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Stun grenade" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-ChaffG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Chaff grenade" on the item menu. M363 is actually an obsolete anti-infantry canister round developed for the 76mm guns of the M4 Sherman and M41 Walker Bulldog tanks.]]
[[Image:MGS4-StunG-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After FROG soldiers knock a hole into the Advent Palace Hotel's bathroom, they toss a stun grenade inside, visible next to Meryl's head. The explosion, if looked at, turns the screen completely white; this can be simulated by looking to the right of this image.]]

==M112 C4 Demolition Charge==

Remote-detonated C4 charges are available during the game, and can be placed on the ground or objects and then detonated in the order they were originally placed. Precisely what attaches them to surfaces is not clear; the charges can be fixed to non-magnetic surfaces, and lack any obvious adhesive.

[[Image:M112.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M112 demolition charge]]
[[Image:MGS4-C4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"C4" on the item menu.]]

==M18 Smoke Grenade==

The [[M18 smoke grenade]] is usable in the game, in a default white version and four special "Emotion" versions which produce coloured smoke which affects the emotions of enemies caught in it; Blue for Cry, Red for Rage, Yellow for Laugh, and Green for Scream. The M18 is also the basis for the "fat" versions of the Stun and Chaff grenade seen in the ''MGS1'' nightmare sequence.

[[Image:M18red.jpg|thumb|none|250px|M18 smoke grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M18 smoke grenade on the item menu. This grenade produces white smoke.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18-Emot.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the four coloured "emotion" smoke grenades available after completing the game once. This is the yellow "Laugh" grenade.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Faced with the rebel BMP-3 in the first Act, the Praying Mantis PMC soldiers decide that discretion is the better part of valour, one throwing an M18 smoke grenade to cover their retreat.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M18-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the Act 4 ''MGS1'' nightmare, Snake is surprised at finding a security camera in a top-secret base as he brandishes a "Chaff Grenade" based on an M18. Due to PS1-era graphical limitations, the grenade is bigger than his head.]]

==M18A1 Claymore==

The [[M18A1 Claymore]] mine is used as a trap in several locations throughout the game; as usual in the series, the mines use a proximity detonator rather than the real weapon's tripwire, although they lack the optical camouflage seen in the first two games which made them invisible.

[[Image:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|none|300px|M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine]]
[[Image:MGS4-Claymore.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M18A1 Claymore on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Claymore-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake spots a Claymore in the lobby of the Advent Palace Hotel, deciding that practical jokes by the staff must have really got out of hand.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Claymore-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Luckily ''MGS'' series standards still apply, and Claymores are apparently both extremely hot for no readily determined reason and can be stolen by crawling over them.]]

==M34 White Phosphorous Grenade==

The [[M34 White Phosphorous grenade]] is available to the player only, and creates a burning cloud of white phosphorous which ignites enemies on contact.

[[Image:M34 2-1-.jpg|thumb|none|300px|M34 White Phosphorous grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-WP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M34 White Phosphorous grenade on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-WP-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake looks down the iron sight of his MP5SD2 at a case of WP grenades; this is the generic pickup model used by every type of grenade in the game.]]

==M67 Hand Grenade==

The [[M67 hand grenade]] is used by most enemies in the game and can be used by the player; it is also part of the armament of the "Gekko" bipedal IFVs, which can throw grenades using their manipulator tentacles.

[[Image:Baseball.jpg|thumb|none|300px|M67 hand grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-M67.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M67 hand grenade on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M67-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Drebin shows off a magic trick he presumably uses at ''really'' dull parties.]]
[[File:MGS4Grenade-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A better shot of the M67.]]

==Magazine==

A 30-round STANAG 5.56x45mm magazine can be thrown to distract enemies. One magazine is added to the stock every time a weapon's magazine is fully depleted; regardless of the weapon, it will always be shown as this type when thrown. Unlike ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', the reloading animation correctly shows Snake retaining the old mag during the reload rather than discarding it and then having it in his inventory anyway.

[[Image:MGS4-Magazine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Magazine on the item menu.]]

==Mk 2 Hand Grenade==

During the PMC commercials before the game proper begins, two live-action combatants are seen dueling in mid-air as the camera sweeps around them. As they move close, the one in white reaches down to produce a [[Mk 2 hand grenade]], with another attached to her belt. Mk 2 grenades are also used by Genome Soldiers in the ''MGS1'' nightmare sequence if Snake enters a vent during an alert.

[[Image:MK2 grenade DoD.jpg|thumb|none|200px|Mk 2 hand grenade|Mk 2 "Pineapple" high-explosive fragmentation hand grenade]]
[[Image:MGS4-Luger-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the PMC commercial, one of the fighting-or-something women produces a Mk 2 grenade from her belt.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mk2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The grey object visible above the Genome Soldier's left hand is the fuze of a Mk 2 grenade. Since the ''MGS1'' soldiers always have a rifle in their right hand, they are shown pulling the pins with their mouth; apparently Big Boss' superior soldier genes include some for superior soldier teeth.]]

==Molotov cocktail==

Molotov cocktails, referred to as "Petro Bomb" in game, are used in place of grenades by rebel soldiers in the first two Acts, and can be picked up by Snake, functioning as less effective versions of the WP grenade which ignite on impact.

[[Image:MGS4-Molotov.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Petro Bomb" on the item menu.]]

==Valmera 69==

An Italian Valmera 69 bounding anti-personnel mine is featured as the "S.G. Mine," with SG presumably standing for "Sleep Gas." These contact-triggered mines instantly knock out anyone who triggers them, including Snake himself, though they can be triggered with gunfire or defused by crawling over them or picking them up with Metal Gear Mk. 2. Some are found in the Advent Palace hotel in the first Act.

[[Image:130705-004-42B40A6D.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Italian Valmera 69 land mine (centre).]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"S.G. Mine" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Apparently showing up as hot on thermal isn't enough for these mines, which are also concealed through clever application of a bright blue body and a big silly light on the top.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the unlikely case that Snake manages to trigger one, the entire mine jumps into the air; this is incorrect, as the Valmera, like most bounding mines, has an outer body containing the bounding body and propelling charge; only the bounding body should jump into the air.]]
[[Image:MGS4-SmokeMine-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake does not have time to consider this, due to the loss of his entire Psyche gauge and the resultant urgent need for a nap.]]

==Unknown land mine==

An unknown land mine is available as a remote-triggered sleeping gas bomb called the "S.G. Satchel."

[[Image:MGS4-Satchel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"S.G. Satchel" on the item menu.]]

=Mounted Weaponry=

==BGM-71 TOW==

The bipedal "Gekko" unmanned weapons are sometimes equipped with a launch unit for two [[BGM-71 TOW]] missiles on one of their weapon mounting points. These weapons are never usable by the player.

[[Image:Tow 07.jpg|thumb|none|400px|BGM-71 TOW mounted on M220 tripod - 152mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-TOW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake is ambushed by a "Gekko" unmanned vehicle crashing through a wall, equipped with an M2 Browning heavy machine gun and twin TOW launch tubes.]]
[[Image:MGS-TOW-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After Snake successfully evades the easily-fooled Gekko, they are called away.]]

==Browning M2HB==

The [[M2HB]] is mounted on Stryker APC and MGS variants and HMMWVs in game, and is also the principle dorsal armament of the Gekko bipedal IFVs. They can also occasionally be found mounted in fixed emplacements.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Browning M2HB - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the Praying Mantis PMC's "Gekko" unmanned vehicles, armed with a Protector M151 Remote Weapon Station and twin BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missiles. The Gekko also mounts a lighter machine gun in the "beak," but this is completely concealed by armour and impossible to identify.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Strykers in ''MGS4'' also mount the Protector M151 Remote Weapon Station, equipped with an M2 Browning heavy machine gun.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Pieuvre Armement PMC Stryker is seen at the start of the second Act.]]
[[File:MGS4M2HB-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake mans a Browning M2HB on top of Drebins Stryker at the end of Act 2.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the third Act, the Raven Sword PMC makes extensive use of HMMWV ("Humvee") light trucks armed with Browning M2 heavy machine guns. While the Young Snake disguise won't get Snake by these, apparently Colonel Campbell is allowed out and about after curfew.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The combined US Army / Marine taskforce sent to deal with Liquid Ocelot on the Volta in Act 3 turn up in force, including a number of Mark V Special Operations Craft, each armed with four M2 heavy machine guns mounted on the sides of the rear deck.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Liquid Ocelot's boat in Act 3 is a Swedish-designed Combat Boat 90 modified to mount a turret with what appear to be a pair of tank cannons. More normal for the class are the twin M2 Browning heavy machine guns mounted in a compartment forward of the helmsman's position, and visible here behind the FROG soldier on the left.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The gun cameras on Shadow Moses in Act 4 are based on the M2, with a shortened barrel and a rather undersized drum.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sneaks up on a mounted M2 Browning during the game's second Act. Knowing Snake's stealthy ways, it will later find it has much less ammo and is pointed in a different direction, and will never figure out why.]]
[[File:MGS4M2HB-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M2 Browning mounted on Drebin's Stryker.]]

==General Electric M134 Minigun==

During the second Act, soldiers of the Pieuvre Armement PMC are seen wearing suits of powered armour equipped with [[GE M134]] miniguns on their right arms.

[[Image:M134.JPG|thumb|none|400px|General Electric M134 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M134.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two power suits are visible at the top of the shot, both with arm-mounted miniguns.]]

==General Electric M61A1 Vulcan==

Secondary armament of Metal Gears Rex and Ray is a pair of [[M61 Vulcan]] 20mm rotary guns; Ray mounts them on the tips of the two wing-like underwater propulsion units on its shoulders, while Rex mounts them under the projections either side of the pilot's "beak." While the latter is claimed to be 30mm by the game, Metal Gear Rex has not changed size since Otacon called them "Vulcan cannons" in ''MGS1'' and the weapons are not large enough to be GAU-8s. The battleship USS ''Missouri'' also mounts M61 vulcans in her Phalanx CIWS installations.

[[Image:M61vulcan.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Electric / General Dynamics M61 Vulcan - 20mm.]]
[[Image:Phalanx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|GE M61 Vulcan in a Phalanx mounting - 20mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The damaged cover of Metal Gear Rex's left-hand gun shows it to be a six-barrelled M61 Vulcan, despite the game labelling it as a much larger seven-barrelled 30mm GAU-8.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As in ''MGS2'', Metal Gear Ray's Vulcans are mounted at the tips of the two propulsor "wings," forcing the vehicle to position itself incredibly awkwardly to fire. Here, Ray opens fire on Metal Gear Rex in the finale of the fourth Act.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In the final Act, Snake's base of operations becomes the USS ''Missouri'', which is recreated in loving detail and the subject of many dramatic shots. Here, a shot of the ''Missouri's'' flank as she approaches the submarine arsenal ship ''Outer Haven'' shows off her Mark 12 5-inch/38 calibre dual-purpose guns, angled RGM-84 Harpoon launch tubes and two of the M61A1 Vulcan cannons in Phalanx installations on her superstructure.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M61.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As Outer Haven launches a volley of Harpoon anti-ship missiles at the USS ''Missouri'', "Mighty Mo" responds with her dual-purpose guns and Phalanx installations.]]

== Kalashnikov PKT ==

During the first Act, the rebels assault Praying Mantis PMC positions with a Russian BMP-3 IFV. The BMP-3 is the world's most heavily armed IFV, packing in a 2A70 100mm low velocity gun / missile launcher, a coaxial 2A72 30mm autocannon, six 81mm 902V "Tucha" smoke grenade launchers and three [[PK Machine Gun|PKT machine guns]], one coaxial and two bow-mounted.

[[Image:Machine gun PKT.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PKT machine gun with 250-round ammo drum - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:MGS4-BMP3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The rebel BMP makes a grand entrance, firing off its bow-mounted PKT machine guns.]]
[[Image:MGS4-BMP3-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|If Snake has been nice to the rebels, this is a happy sight; if not, it may be time to be ''really'' stealthy.]]

==M224 Mortar==

During the first two Acts, a number of [[M224 Mortar]]s set up by rebel forces can be found and used by the player; these are aimed with a HUD indicator showing the round's trajectory, ending in an area-of-effect circle at the point of detonation. They have infinite ammunition.

[[Image:M224-60mm-mortar.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M224 Mortar - 60mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mortar.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake discovers the hard way that the mortar wasn't designed to be used as a pillow.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mortar-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Vowing to never speak of his bad sleeping experience again, Snake decides to dispose of any witnesses, dropping a 60mm round into his M224 mortar after sighting up a hapless PMC soldier manning an M2 Browning.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Mortar-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake admires his handiwork and shows off his amazingly flexible definition of "sneaking mission."]]

==M230 Chaingun==

PMC hybrid helicopters based on the Boeing X-50 Dragonfly aircraft / helicopter concept are armed with a chin-mounted [[M230 Chain Gun]].

[[Image:Hughes-M230-Chain-Gun3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hughes/Alliant Techsystems M230 Chain Gun - 30mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M230-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A PMC attack helicopter comes in to support Praying Mantis troops during the first level, showing off its chin-mounted M230. While these helicopters appear many times during the game, they never receive a name.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M230.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake sights up a PMC attack helicopter with his VSS Vintorez as it fires its chaingun at rebels nearby. This is unlikely to end well for him.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M230-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the PMC hybrid helicopters in "jet" mode. They are never encountered like this during gameplay, only during the early cutscenes of Act 1. It's worth noting that the real X-50 Dragonfly program was axed due to "inherent design flaws," with neither prototype ever successfully transitioning from rotary-wing to fixed-wing flight.]]

==M240C==

The [[FN_MAG#M240_Machine_Gun|M240C]] is seen mounted coaxially on the remaining Abrams tank in Shadow Moses Island's tank hangar.

[[Image:M240C.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240C vehicle coaxial-mount version - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-M240C.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake admires the remaining Abrams in the tank hangar, standing under the M256 120mm L/44 main gun. Note the CIS mounted on top of the turret right of the commander's Browning M2; apparently the magical elves which have been maintaining Metal Gear Rex since the island was abandoned took time out to update ''MGS1's'' M1A1 to A2 standard.]]
[[Image:MGS4-M240C-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A view from the upper walkway of the tank hangar. ''MGS4'' doesn't take sides on whether the Abrams in the first game had two Browning M2s as in ''Metal Gear Solid'' or an M2 and an M240D as in ''Twin Snakes''; the remaining tank in the hangar has no loader's weapon at all.]]

== Yakushev-Borzov Yak-B ==

Liquid Snake's crashed Hind-D can be found in the snowfield around the Comm Towers in Act 4, with the chin-mounted Yak-B gatling gun buried in the snow. Other Hinds can be seen in the PMC advertisments at the very beginning of the game; at least one of those seen, however, is a Hind-A which would have a different, single-barrel chin gun.

[[Image:Yakb.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Yakushev-Borzov Yak-B machine gun - 12.7mm]]
[[Image:MGS4-Hind-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake finds the crashed Hind-D in a corner of the snowfield. "Bad dog! What did Snake tell you about destroying the helicopter?"]]
[[Image:MGS4-Hind-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During one of the introduction's confusing PMC commercials, an Mi-24 Hind-A is briefly visible circling two people in vaguely Middle-Eastern dress; it can be identified as such by the early "greenhouse" side-by-side cockpit rather than the later twin bubble canopy. This means it would mount a single-barrel gun rather than a Yak-B; it is included here for the sake of noting this.]]

=Other=

=="Rail Gun"==

The fictional handheld railgun used by Fortune in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty|MGS2]]'' returns in ''Metal Gear Solid 4'' attached to the quadrupedal armour of B&B Corps member Crying Wolf; the weapon is mounted to the "Beast" armour's shoulder, and can only be used when the cockpit is open. Following the battle, the railgun is made available to the player for free; it features a 3-step charge up activated by aiming the weapon and a digital scope with a charge level indicator. The gun no longer has the issues with runaway firing described in ''Metal Gear Solid 2'', where it was stated the project was cancelled for this reason and only Fortune with her "good luck" could use it effectively. Despite the railgun being roughly the size of a motorcycle, it apparently still somehow fits inside the foot-tall Metal Gear Mk. 2.

The railgun itself seems to have been created using either the same wooden motion capture prop as the one used for ''Metal Gear Solid 2's'' MoCap work or a reproduction of it; the design incorporates elements of a number of experimental and prototype high-tech weapons, but the weapon as a whole is a work of fiction.

[[Image:MGS4-Railgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Railgun" on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake continues to make a mockery of the idea that he keeps his inventory in anything resembling a backpack.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the railgun; note the magazine in Snake's left hand is proportioned like a pistol mag, since it only contains projectiles with no propellant.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake uses the scope of the railgun to sight up a Gekko hanging from the ceiling in Shadow Moses' casting and rolling facility. The horizontal bars fill in as it charges, while the lower vertical bar is an ammunition counter.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|With the Railgun slung over the right shoulder, Crying Wolf's quadrupedal "beast" armour manages the entirely impossible feat of stopping and then lifting a Caterpillar D9 bulldozer with an Israeli-standard up-armour package. This vehicle weighs as much as a main battle tank, and no matter how strong the "beast" is its legs would dig into the ground before it could ever hope to pull this off.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Three Acts later, Crying Wolf takes aim at Snake in the snowfield on Shadow Moses island; strangely, in this cutscene the railgun has an analog zoom on the scope rather than the two-setting digital zoom it has when Snake uses it. This is also the only time the railgun is seen with the armature extended when it isn't being charged.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Railgun-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake hefts the railgun as he prepares to take on a force of Gekko bent on destroying Metal Gear Rex's hangar. Despite that he could barely lift it when he picked it up after defeating Crying Wolf, he uses it just fine the rest of the time.]]

==Tanegashima==

A Japanese clone of a Portugese muzzleloading matchlock arquebus design, this is basically a joke weapon that can only be reloaded while standing, taking a lot of time to do so for only moderate damage and accuracy; costing one million Drebin Points, it's a very expensive joke at that. However, there is a one-third chance that when the Tanegashima is fired outdoors it will instead fire a gigantic whirlwind which knocks enemies down and scatters items everywhere. It is extremely silly.

[[Image:TanegashimaGun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Japanese "Tanegashima" matchlock arquebus. Tanegashima was the site of the first contact Japan had with European traders, and these firearms were copies of traded Portugese guns.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Tanegashima" arquebus on the item menu.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Snake aims down the iron sight of his Tanegashima arquebus. Note that only one end of the match is lit; typically on a real matchlock, both ends would be lit in case one was extinguished accidentally.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading involves a suitable amount of fiddling around with the weapon's ramrod, followed by a series of hard-to-make-out actions which are presumably refilling the flash pan, resetting the serpentine and replacing the match.]]
[[Image:MGS4-Musket-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sometimes it's even worth it.]]

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Third-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:Stealth]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:Thriller]]
[[Category:Drama]]

The Losers (2010)

2011-08-12T04:37:52Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Colt XSE M1911 */

[[Image:thelosersposter.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''The Losers'' (2010)]]

'''''The Losers''''' is a 2010 action film based on the DC Vertigo comic and stars [[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]] as the leader of a Special Forces team who, after they are assumed killed in a botched mission, are determined to root out the CIA operative who betrayed them.

'''The following weapons were used in the film ''The Losers'':'''

__TOC__ 

=Handguns=
==Kimber Custom TLE II ==
Clay ([[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]]) carries a [[M1911|Kimber Custom TLE II]] as his main sidearm.

[[Image:KimberCustomTLEII Plain.jpg‎|thumb|350px|none|Kimber Custom TLE II - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:Loser 57.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clay ([[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]]) carries a Kimber Custom TLE II during the raid on the drug lord's compound.]]
[[Image:Losers006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clay opens fire with his Kimber during the shootout at the Los Angeles Harbor.]]

==Colt XSE M1911 ==
Wade ([[Holt McCallany]]) carries a [[M1911 pistol series|Colt XSE]], fitted with Pachmayr grips. Roque ([[Idris Elba]]) uses one during the harbor shootout.
[[Image:ColtCustomXXX.jpg‎ |none|350px|thumb|Colt XSE with Les Baer Slide and Bomar sights - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:TheLosers-Max_return_XSE.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Max returning Wade's XSE back to him after killing his secretary. Note the clearly visible Pachmayr grips. Also note that the hammer fell, the slide didn't cycle and the gun didn't kick at all, meaning it was empty and the shot was added in post.]]
[[Image:Loser 51.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wade ([[Holt McCallany]]) pulls his Colt XSE on the scientist.]]

==Beretta 92FS==
One of the handguns that Aisha ([[Zoe Saldana]]) uses is a [[Beretta 92FS]]. Security guards at Goliath Industries and Cryon Security Contractors also use Beretta 92FS pistols. Pooch and Jensen also use them during the harbor shootout.

[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:Losers020.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aisha dual-wielding a Beretta 92FS in her left hand and her 84F in her right.]]
[[Image:TheLosers-Aisha_fire_92FS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aisha shooting a Cryon contractor while holding another as a human-shield.]]

==Beretta 85F Cheetah ==
The other handgun that Aisha uses is a nickel [[Beretta Cheetah|Beretta 85F]].

[[Image:Beretta85FNickel.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beretta 85F Nickel- 9mm.]]
[[Image:Losers019.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aishia taking cover in the bathtub when both Beretta's in hand.]]
[[Image:Losers020.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aisha dual-wielding a Beretta 92FS in her left hand and her 84F in her right.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 629==
Cougar ([[Óscar Jaenada]]) uses a [[Smith & Wesson Model 629]] as his primary sidearm.

[[Image:M6293.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Model 629 with 3" Barrel - .44 magnum.]]
[[Image:Losers014.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cougar pulls a 3" barrel Smith & Wesson Model 629 in the pharmacy]]
[[Image:Losers-SW629-Prostill.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Cougar aims a S&W Model 629 in a production still.]]

==Desert Eagle==
A [[Desert Eagle]] is the main sidearm of Roque ([[Idris Elba]]). Judging by the pictures below, Roque's Desert Eagle switches between a two-tone version with a silver frame, and an all-black version.
[[Image:Desert-Eagle.jpeg|thumb|400px|none|Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50 AE, black finish. The newer Mark XIX models are most distinguishable by the scope rail mount above the barrel, clearly visible here. This is the version of the Desert Eagle popularized by ''[[The Matrix]]'', and the most common in current movies and TV shows.]]
[[Image:TheLosers-DE.Bull.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Desert Eagle (circled in blue) lying on the crate during the blind man's bluff game in the beginning. This is a two-tone model with a silver frame (NOTE: this is not Roque's. pooch makes a bet, using this gun)]]
[[Image:Losers011.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Roque ([[Idris Elba]]) loads the Desert Eagle. In this shot the frame appears to be black.]]

==Taurus 44==
A Taurus 44 is one of the guns that are bet when the Losers play cards at the beginning of the film.
The Taurus 44 is a .44 magnum 6 shooter, while the Taurus 608 is a .357 magnum 8 shot revolver, built on the same frame as the 44. It's a large-framed revolver and can be easily mistaken for the more well-known Taurus Raging Bull. As can be seen in the screenshots below the extra cylinder locking catch of the Raging Bull isn't visible, the barrel profile is different (the Raging Bull has a tear drop profile) and the vents of the Raging Bull are not present. On top of that, it can clearly be seen that the words "Raging Bull" are not present on the barrel.
[[Image:Taurus_608.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Taurus Model 608 with 6.5" barrel and a matt finish- .357 Magnum for frame comparison]]
[[Image:TheLosers-DE.Bull.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Taurus 44 (circled in red) lying on the crate during the blind man's bluff game in the beginning.]]
[[Image:Taurus Raging Bull.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Taurus Raging Bull - .44 Magnum for comparison]]

==Glock 17==
A [[Glock 17]] can be briefly seen in the hands of a member of Max's protection force during the armored car heist.
[[Image:Glock17EarlyModel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 17 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:TheLosers-Guardglock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The security guard aiming his Glock 17.]]

==Heckler & Koch USP==
Max ([[Jason Patric]]) is seen with what could be a [[USP]] to execute a scientist.
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Heckler & Koch USP - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:TheLosers-max_w._USP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Max firing the USP which locks back after only a few shots were fired.]]

=Shotguns=
==Remington 870==
A [[Remington 870]] shotgun fitted with a pistol grip, shell holder, and door breach break is used by Pooch ([[Columbus Short]]) during the harbor shootout.

[[Image:Remington870BlackSynthetic.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 with early style black synthetic 'riot' foregrip and buttstock - 12 gauge.]]
[[Image:Losers003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pooch ([[Columbus Short]]) holds the 870 shotgun, understandably angry due to the gun's 'stovepipe' jam - a shotshell is clearly seen to be stuck in the chamber. Must have short-stroked the pump.]]

=Submachine Guns=
==Heckler & Koch MP5K PDW==
Clay ([[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]]) uses two [[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5K PDWs]] in the shootout at the harbor.

[[Image:MP5K-PDWEarly.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|MP5K 9x19mm with the PDW-style folding stock attached, commonly used in films to emulate the PDW.]]
[[Image:Losers005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clay emerges with both H&K MP5K's.]]
[[Image:Losers 314.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clay with his dual MP5K-PDW's.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP7==
Aisha uses a [[Heckler & Koch MP7]] during the shootout at the harbor.

[[Image:Hk mp7 b-1-.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 4.6x30mm with Hensoldt RSA red dot sight. This MP7 shown in SMG configuration.]]
[[Image:TheLosers-Aisha_fire_mp7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aisha about to fire her MP7 at Wade during the harbor shootout.]]
[[Image:Losers-Mp7-prostill.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Aisha aims a MP7 in a production still.]]

=Rifles=
==Knight's Armament SR-25==
A [[Knight's Armament SR-25]] is the main sniper weapon of Cougar ([[Óscar Jaenada]]). He later uses another SR-25 equipped with a PRS stock after getting back to the US.

[[Image:SR25.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Knight's Armament SR-25 7.62x51mm NATO with suppressor and Harris bipod (''Note magazine design and lack of forward assist, an important difference between the SR-25 and the 5.56x45mm [[M16 rifle series#Mk 12 Special Purpose Rifle|Mk 12 SPR]]'')]]
[[Image:TheLosers-coug_sr25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cougar aiming the SR-25 during the Bolivian mission.]]
[[Image:Losers001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cougar takes aim with the SR-25.]]
[[Image:Losers-AR10-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Cougar.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cougar seen here "firing" the SR-25 as a full cartridge is ejected.]]
[[Image:Losers-SR25-prodstill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A production still of Cougar with the SR-25.]]

==M4A1==
The [[M4A1]] carbine is carried by various members of the Losers including Jensen ([[Chris Evans]]), Pooch ([[Columbus Short]]), Roque ([[Idris Elba]]) and Clay ([[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]]) throughout the movie kitted out with different attachments depending on the mission. Several of Max's guards in the convoy also are armed with M4A1s.
[[Image:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 Carbine with M68 Aimpoint reflex optic and Knight's Armament RAS railed handguard and vertical forward grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Loser 58.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jensen ([[Chris Evans]]) fires his suppressed M4A1 during the raid on the drug lord's compound.]]
[[Image:TheLosers-Clay_fire_M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clay firing his suppressed M4 during the Bolivian mission.]]
[[Image:Losers 2004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Losers with their M4A1's during the assault on the compound.]]
[[Image:Losers002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clay ([[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]]) holds the M4A1 just after their Bolivian mission.]]
[[Image:Losers 2100.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jensen's M4 now has an ARMS Selective Integrated Rail system instead of the Knight's Armament RIS it previously had.]]
[[Image:Losers 2005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jensen ([[Chris Evans]]) holding his M4.]]

==Heckler & Koch HK416==
When the team inspects the wreckage of a helicopter in Bolivia, some of the team's M4's appear to have changed to different models of the similar looking [[Heckler & Koch HK416]].
[[Image:Hk416-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 14.5 inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]
[[Image:Losers002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Roque on the left appear to hold an HK416 instead of the M4A1 he was seen using before. Note the shorter barrel.]]

==Knight's Armament SR-15 E3 IWS==
Other members of Max's protection force are seen defending the convoy with Knight's Armament SR-15 E3 IWS rifles.
[[Image:Losers02002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two of Max's security team members are seen with the SR-15 E3 IWS rifles.]]

==AKM==
The soldiers of Bolivian drug lord Fadhil (Peter Francis James) are armed with [[AKM]] assault rifles.

[[Image:AKMRifle.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|AKM, Stamped Steel Receiver w/ slant muzzle brake 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Loser 59.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Bolivian drug lord Fadhil's guards are armed with [[AKM]] assault rifles.]]

==Heckler & Koch G36K==
Some of the guards protecting Max's convoy in Miami are armed with [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] rifles with top rails and foregrips. This is also the gun Clay uses in his confrontation with Max.

[[Image:HKG36KR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36K with Rail top - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:TheLosers-guardG36K.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Cryon contractor firing his G36K at the Losers.]]
[[Image:TheLosers-Clay_aim_G36k.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clay aiming a confiscated G36K at Max ([[Jason Patric]]).]]

==FN SCAR-L==
Cryon private security contractors at the Los Angeles harbor use [[FN SCAR]] rifles when they capture the Losers.

[[Image:Scar l-1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|A First Gen FN SCAR-L 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint scope and Grippod foregrip]]
[[Image:Loser 56.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Cryon contractor sneaks up on Pooch with a SCAR in hand.]]
[[Image:TheLosers-sec._guard_SCAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of the Cryon contractors aiming their SCAR's at Pooch.]]

=Heavy Weapons=
==Browning M2HB==
The [[Browning M2HB]] is fired by the Max's right hand man Wade ([[Holt McCallany]]) during the armored car heist.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB on vehicle mount - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:Losers025.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Wade ([[Holt McCallany]]) opens up with Browning M2 on the Losers' helicopter during the armored car ambush.]]
[[Image:TheLosers-Wade_drop_.50.jpg|thumb|none|600px| Wade letting go the M2 in frustration after the Losers get away with the package.]]

==M203==
Clay ([[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]]) uses a stand-alone [[M203|M203A1]] (a shortened M203 variant for use on M4/M4A1) grenade launcher with an M4-style stock, vertical handgrip, and C-More red-dot sight to fire a tear gas grenade during the ambush of Max's convoy.

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:TheLosers-m203_aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clay aiming his stand-alone M203A1.]]
[[Image:TheLosers-m203_fired.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Clay firing the stand-alone M203A1.]]

==M136 AT4==
Aisha fires an [[M136 AT4]] from the hip, which is NO way to handle it. However, as Jensen notes, it makes Aisha look like "one bad-ass chick". The AT4 also appears to launch an exposed warhead.

[[Image:AT-4Launcher.jpg‎ |thumb|none|450px|M136 AT4 Anti-Tank recoilless launcher - 84mm]]
[[Image:Losers015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Aisha fires the AT4.]]

=Other=
==Custom Rocket Launcher==
An improvised rocket launcher is constructed and fired by Pooch ([[Columbus Short]]).
[[Image:TheLosers-prep_impro_rocket.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pooch prepping the launcher.]]
[[Image:Losers018.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The improvised launcher is fired by Pooch.]]

==Crossbow==

A crossbow is used by Jensen ([[Chris Evans]]) during the armored car ambush.
[[Image:TheLosers-aiming_crossbow.jpg|thumb|none|600px| "That's right bitches, I got a crossbow."]]
[[Image:Losers crossbow.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jensen after firing the crossbow.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]

Grand Theft Auto: Vice City

2011-08-12T04:31:06Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Colt Python .357 Magnum, 6" Barrel */

'''The following weapons appear in the video game ''Grand Theft Auto: Vice City'':'''
[[Image:Gta-VC-boxart.png|thumb|right|300px|''Grand Theft Auto: Vice City'' (2002)]]

=Handguns=
Has a theme color of yellow. Can be put to good use while robbing a store.

== Colt M1911A1 ==

Called 'Pistol' ingame. Has a large ammunition capacity of 17 rounds, moderate rate of fire and low damage. It is the most popular weapon in the game, used by the VCPD, all gang members, Patrol Invest Group (PIG) guards and many more. Great all-round weapon for virtually all situations from Vice Beach (first island) missions.

You can easily stock up on ammo for free from as soon as the game starts from thug/cop fights if the thug wins (punch him once for "Good Citizen Bonus", and lead him to the cop so they fight. Thugs usually wins as long as you don't punch him too much, and you get a free nightstick and pistol).

This is virtually the only weapon used by armed NPC's in free-roam outside of missions and sub-missions, the exceptions being the Ammunation store shopkeepers, the Golfers and the soldiers around Fort Baxter (programmed similar to gangs) and Tommy's Gang after completing the storyline missions.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP.]]

[[Image:Pistol_3.png‎|thumb|400px|none|Colt M1911A1 Pistol]]

== Colt Python .357 Magnum, 6" Barrel ==

Called .357 ingame. The Colt Python is an extremely powerful handgun and has a low ammunition capacity of 6 rounds, and a very slow rate of fire. This weapon is very rare in the game, but is sold in two out of the three Ammu-nations. It is not used by any NPC in the game except for the Ammu-nation store-keeper in Downtown VC. It can usually kill a person in one shot, except for law enforcement units with bullet-proof vests like the SWAT, FBI and National Guardsmen, where it's slow rate of fire can become a big hinderance. Interestingly, Tommy uses one in the cutscene at the end of the mission 'Rub Out' even if you don't have one in your inventory. An empty shell is incorrectly shown being ejected after each shot.
[[Image:Pythstainless6.jpg|thumb|400px|none|[[Colt Python]] Stainless Steel variant with 6" Barrel - .357 Magnum]]

[[Image:357_vc.png‎|thumb|400px|none|Colt Python]]

[[Image:Gta-vice-city-21.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy carries his Python.]]

=Sub-Machine Guns=
Has a theme color of yellow. All can be used in drive-bys and can be fired to the front or sides while riding motorcycles. Interestingly, when fired from a vehicle, they all have the sound-bites of the Uzi, and a drastically much higher damage, so that one bullet will usually kill virtually every type of NPC.

== Intratec Tec-9 ==

Has a somewhat low rate of fire compared to other submachine guns in the game, moderate damage, and a high capacity magazine of 50 rounds. Used most prominently by Street Wannabes and low-level thug muscle in a few missions, but also by other gangs and the respawning Mafia attackers in 'Keep your friends close'.

[[image:TEC-9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Intratec TEC-9 9mm]]

[[Image:Tec9_vc.png‎|thumb|none|400px|Intratec TEC-9]]
[[File:Gta tec9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy with the TEC-9]]

== MAC-10 ==

The [[MAC-10]] is a weapon with a high rate of fire and somewhat low damage. Sort of a small upgrade to the Tec-9. This weapon is very rare, as it is never used by NPC's during any missions - it is only wielded by the storekeeper of the Ammunation Store that sells the weapon in Vice Beach - but on the PC version only. On the PS2 version, he is unarmed. Interestingly, the game icon for this is actually a Micro-Uzi. The opposite is the case of the 'Micro-SMG' in GTA: San Andreas, where the game icon is that of a Mac-10, whereas the game skin is that of a Micro-Uzi. Model also appears later in GTA: Liberty City Stories

[[Image:IngramMAC10.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Ingram MAC 10 - .45 acp]]‎
[[Image:Mac10_vc.png‎|thumb|400px|none|Ingram MAC 10]]
[[File:Gta mac 10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy with the MAC 10]]

== IMI Uzi ==

Considerably the second most popular weapon in the game. Has moderate damage and a very fast rate of fire. Used by some law enforcement officers (SWAT, Cheetah Undercover Officers), gang members such as Haitians and Cubans and many more NPCs throughout the game.

[[Image:Uzi.jpg|thumb|none|400px|IMI Uzi 9mm]]

[[Image:Uzi_vc.png‎|thumb|none|400px|IMI Uzi]]

[[Image:V screen001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy aims his Uzi from a motorcycle.]]

== Heckler & Koch MP5A3 ==

One of the most powerful weapons in the game. High rate of fire but slightly less to the Uzi, able to fire long ranges and a moderate ammunition capacity of 30 rounds. Can be found on FBI agents and US Army officers. Ricardo Diaz uses one when Tommy and Lance take over his mansion.
[[Image:MP5A3 StockCollapsed.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3, 9x19mm]]

[[Image:Mp5_vc.png‎|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch MP5A3]]

[[Image:Gta-vice-city-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy carries his MP5.]]

=Shotguns=
Has a theme color of dark green. When fired the shotgun shell can be erroneously seen leaving from the barrel in multiple directions.

== Ithaca 37 ==
A good reliable shotgun with a sort of fast firing rate. Has a low/medium damage. Called "Chrome Shotgun" in game.

[[Image:IthacaExtMagTub.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ithaca 37 - 12 Gauge]]

[[Image:Shotgun_vc.png‎|thumb|400px|none|Ithaca 37]]
[[File:Gta ithaca 37.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy with the Ithaca]]

== Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" ==

Called a "stubby shotgun". It is based on a customized Ithaca 37 Stakeout used by Phillip Michael Thomas in [[Miami_Vice_-_Season_2#Ithaca_37_Stakeout|Miami Vice]].

[[Image:Custom37.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Customized Ithaca 37 Stakeout used in Miami Vice]]
[[Image:Stubby_vc.png|thumb|400px|none]]
[[File:Gta stakeout.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy with the Stakeout]]

== Franchi SPAS-12 ==

The most powerful shotgun in the game. Has a very fast rate of fire with good damage but small ammo capacity.

[[Image:Franchi-SPAS12.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Franchi SPAS-12 with stock folded and butt-hook removed- .12 ga]]

[[Image:Spas12 vc.png|thumb|400px|none|Franchi SPAS-12]]
[[File:Gta franchi.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy with the Franchi]]

=Assault Rifles=
Has a theme color of orange. Allows aiming option by clicking the secondary fire mode button.

== Ruger Mini-14 ==

The Ruger is the first assault rifle the player encounters in the game. It has a slow rate of fire and somewhat inaccurate with moderate damage. Tommy and Lance use two of these weapons to cover Diaz during a Drug Deal gone wrong with the Cubans. It is also used during the mission "All hands on Deck" when Colonel Cortez's sailor's wield these, and Tommy has one too.

[[Image:Mini14gb-f.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Stainless Steel Ruger Mini-14 GB-F ("Government Barrel, Folding Stock") - 5.56mm]]

[[Image:Ruger vc.png|thumb|400px|none|Ruger Mini-14]]

[[Image:Gta-vice-city295.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy wields the Ruger.]]

== Colt Mod. 733 ==

It's a very powerful assault rifle. High rate of fire and damage. Tommy and Lance use M733s during their assault on Diaz' Mansion. Also used by some Military personnel and found spawned across the map. It is erroneously referred to as the "M4" in game, referring to the similar M4 Carbine despite the M4 not being introduced until 1994.

[[Image:Colt_Model_733.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Model 733 - 5.56mm NATO]]

[[Image:M4 vc.png|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 733]]

=Sniper Rifles=
Has a theme color of pink. Allows telescopic sight view by clicking the secondary fire button.

== Remington 700 ==

The first sniper rifle the player will most likely encounter in the game. Has good damage and only fires one bullet at a time.

[[Image:Remington 700 BDL.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 700 .308 Winchester]]

[[Image:Sniper rifle.gif|thumb|none|400px|Remington 700]]

== Heckler & Koch SR9(T) ==

The [[G3#H.26K_SR9_series_of_Sniper_Rifles|SR9(T)]] is the most powerful sniper rifle in the game. Comes with a 7 round magazine (though the real weapon only takes 5. 10, or 20 round magazines), and a laser magnifying scope (Which is more accurate in the long run). Can destroy a car with a whole magazine. Called Sniper .308 in PS2 version. Appears to be modelled after the fake SR9(T) from [[Sniper]]. This configuration is an anachronism, the SR9 series was not introduced until after the 1989 import ban. There is also a nonfunctioning suppressor on the rifle.

[[Image:H&KSR9T.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK91 made to look like an SR9(T)]]

[[Image:Psg vc.png|thumb|none|400px|The MSG90 in ''Vice City''.]]
[[File:Gta hk sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy with the SR9]]

=Heavy Weapons=
Has a theme color of purple. Carrying such a weapon will slow down your speed and prevent you from jumping and sprinting.

== M60 machine gun ==

Highly effective machine gun with a 100 round capacity. Can easily take down vehicles and can kill a person in one shot. Tommy uses a helicopter mounted one while on a mission for Diaz with Lance, which he later takes off the Heli for use in combat and keeps the weapon after the mission.

[[Image:M60.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M60 machine gun 7.62x51mm NATO]]

[[Image:M60 vc.png|thumb|400px|none|M60 machine gun]]
[[File:Gta m60.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy with the M60]]

== Hand Held GE M134 ==

A hand held [[M134 minigun]] that can be bought off from Phil Cassidy after you complete his mission. Extreme rapid rate of fire and damage.
[[Image:Minigun 2.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Handheld M134 Minigun with 'Chainsaw grip' to handle the recoil force. This variant was seen in ''[[Terminator 2: Judgement Day]]''.]]

[[Image:Minigun sa.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M134 Minigun]]

== RPG-7 ==
Extremely effective against helicopters and pretty much anything else.

[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|RPG-7 70mm]]

[[Image:Rl vc.png|thumb|400px|none|RPG-7]]
[[File:Gta rpg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tommy with the RPG]]

== Flamethrower ==

A hand held flamethrower that scorches anyone in front of it. It has a medium-long range.

[[Image:Flame_sa.png|thumb|none|400px|Flamethrower]]

=Explosives=

== Molotov Cocktail ==

One of the types of grenades in the game. Ignites the area with fire that scorches anyone in it.

== Grenades ==

There are two types of grenades in the game. One type which explodes with a timed fuse and another that explodes with a detonator.

== Tear Gas ==

Usually found behind police precincts, they resemble the M18 Smoke Grenade and billow out a big grey smoke. Entering the cloud causes your vision to go blurry and you slowly take damage from the cloud.Can only be found in the PS2 version

=Others=

== Desert Eagle ==

The [[Desert Eagle]] is a non-usable weapon. It is only seen during the Intro to 'Supply & Demand' & 'Rub Out'. Also appeared in the Cutscene for 'The Shootist' being duel wielded by Phil Cassidy. The Same Model later Appears in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

[[Image:DesertEagle357Black.jpg|thumb|none|400px|IMI Desert Eagle - .50 AE]]
[[Image:Deagle sa.png‎|thumb|none|400px|IMI Desert Eagle]]
[[File:Gta supply & demand.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ricardo Diaz (voiced by [[Luis Guzmán]]) with his gold Desert Eagle in the intro to 'Supply & Demand']]
[[File:Gta the shootist.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Phil Cassidy (voiced by [[Gary Busey]]) fires two Desert Eagles in 'The Shootist']]

== Heckler & Koch MP5K ==

Not a Gameplay Weapon. It is only seen in the opening cutscene being used by one of the thugs that ambushes Tommy's drug deal. The same model later appears in Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories

[[Image: MP5K-SEF.jpg | thumb | none | 400px | Heckler & Koch MP5K 9mm]]

[[Image: Mp5 lcs.png | thumb | none | 400px | Heckler & Koch MP5K]]

== Hughes M230 chain gun and AGM-114 Hellfire anti-tank missile ==
Vice City features a version of the Hughes AH-64 Apache, known as the "Hunter." It has an M230 chain gun in a chin mount, and wing mounts containing eight AGM-114 Hellfire missiles in two packs of four, as well as two non-functional Hydra 70 rocket pods. Can be found at the military base, and the helipad in Ocean Beach when all missions and all hidden packages are completed. You can also use this for vigilante missions, althought these missions are called "Brown Thunder" instead (a spoof on the film, "Blue Thunder").

[[Image:Hughes-M230-Chain-Gun4.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Hughes M230 chain gun, 30mm.]]
[[Image:HunterVC.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hunter attack helicopter in GTA: Vice City]]

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:Crime]]
[[Category:Thriller]]
[[Category:Third-Person Shooter]]

Talk:Tombstone

2011-08-12T04:28:11Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Editors */ new section

~This firearm looks more like the smith and wesson No. 3 Russian model in the film, especially given the long flat expanse behind the hammer.~
- If you look at the screenshot provided, the triggerguard has no spur coming off of it. Might be a Russian model with some damage?

It's definitely NOT a Russian. The only feature it has in common with the Russian is a mount for a lanyard ring, which only the Russian model had; an existing Schofield could have easily had that added. Plus, it's lacking the Russian's distinctive trigger-guard spur, as the poster above noted. But there are two basic structural differences between the gun pictured here and the Russian; the Russian had a differently-shaped grip than the standard Schofield; it was more rounded at the corners, not so squared-off...and the Russian model had a distinctive "bump" along the back of the grip just behind the hammer that the regular Schofield didn't have. This weapon is not a Russian.

== Kate's gun ==

Kate ([[Joanna Pacula]]), Doc Holliday's girlfriend, carries a [[Colt Lightning|Colt Lightning Shopkeeper]], drawing it on a saloon keeper when Doc stabs Ed Bailey.
[[Image:DSC02878.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Colt Lightning, Shopkeeper model]]
[[Image:Tomb-coltlights1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kate draws her Lightning Shopkeeper on the saloon keeper when he reaches for a shotgun.]]
[[Image:Tomb-coltlights2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kate aims her Lightning Shopkeeper at the other saloon patrons.]]

That's NOT a lightning that Kate has there. The gun is smaller and the cylinder and flutes are too short to be a lightning. Its one of the many cheap solid frame DA pistols of the era. Looks more like a "British Bulldog" or some variant of that.

Actually, contrary to the earlier post, that IS a Lightning that Kate is packing. It is not a Cimarron New Model Lightning, which is a modern invention, but rather an historical Lightning double-action with the appropriate long flutes and small stature. Its size is due to the fact that it was chambered in the diminutive .38 Colt cartridge.

I disagree. The profile isn't quite right to be a Lightning. It's some variant of a Bulldog as I stated above. There's no way that's a Lightning. I'd bet my entire gun collection on that.

Check this thread on the Coltforum that shows a picture of guns from the movie. It shows the picture of the "bulldog" that Kate had in the movie:

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=143268&posted=1#post143268

Here's a picture of some Forehand and Wadsworth British Bulldogs which is what Kate is holding. I wish I could just post this picture on here and get rid of the picture of the lightning but I can't seem to do that. This is the type of gun she is holding. It is definitely NOT a Colt of any type: http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/twaits/forehand.jpg

I'm gonna have to agree that it's a Bulldog. Look at the second picture, at the black grip of her gun. On the Lightning, the grip ends in a flat, horizontal line. The Bulldog, however, ends with a diagonal. The pistol she's using obviously has a diagonal end to it's grip, and therefore, it's a bulldog. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Editors ==

Anyone else notice when Doc fires three shots out of a double barrel shotgun. I assume it's supposed to be a different angle of the same shot but I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it on here yet!

Talk:Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2011-08-12T04:16:23Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Operator */ new section

== Airsoft 1911 ==
Are you absolutely sure the airsoft gun wasn't based on the gun in the game?-protoAuthor
:What are you talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:10, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
::You say the custom 1911 was based on an airsoft gun. Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?-protoAuthor
::I also agree that the gun isn't based off the one in the pic for that weapon. Aside from it being an airsoft gun, it is a compact version of a 1911 when Big Boss's 1911 was a fullsize. Also, the slide serrations are slanted wheras the ones on big boss's weapon were vertical like those on the original 1911. Neither one has anything to do with the other, I think the image should be removed.

the 'source' for the statement 'Big Boss's gun is based off a custom airsoft' is http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/gameguns.html

However, I view this with a huge degree of skepticism. For starters, as mentioned, the barrel/slide seems to be longer on Big Boss's gun. But even if it is based on an airsoft gun, the airsoft gun itself is based on a standard real-world 1911 with real world features. So it's just one step removed from raw, hands on research. But then again, I don't think most game companies actually buy real versions of the guns they are modeling, they just look around for photos of them. It's like saying 'the model for the gun in this game isn't based on a REAL M-16, it's based on pictures of an M-16'

That 'source' mentions that the gun was produced by Sheriff Co. Given that Sheriff is mentioned in the MGS3 credits it's actually quite likely that it was in fact modeled off an airsoft gun. However, the one in the picture is obviously not the one in the game.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 19:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I know that Western Arms did an airsoft version of the MGS3 custom 1911 after the game was released. I wasn't aware of an airsoft gun like that existing before MGS3 was released. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:30, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

== DSR-1 ==

It can also be found in South America when following Naomi's trail, just follow the wrong footsteps from the point where you can also find hand trails. You will hear Naomi crying for help (from a radio) and a sniper will wait for you to come. She has the DSR-1 with her.

== In game pistures ==

Someone needs to post ingame pictures of the guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

this shot gun (http://www.gunsamerica.com/926290644/Guns/Shotguns/Ithaca-Shotguns/SxS/Ithaca_NID_New_Ithaca_Field_Grade.htm) looks alot like the "twin barrel" in the game.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.22|184.35.22.22]] 22:34, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mark 23 Mod 1? ==
''According to the Metal Gear Wiki, the gun they used as a reference in MGS4 is actually an experimental "Phase 2" model that is currently undergoing testing by the US Navy.''

No, actually it says that ''the SOCOM presented in MGS1, MGS2 and MGS4 is in fact the Phase II model handgun submitted for trials in the USSOCOM Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) competition around the later part of 1991, and not the actual production model of the Mk.23 Mod 0''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

::I wrote that -- the differences were the LAM, front serrations on the slide, markings, and the hammer looked different too. By the time the Mk23 was received in May '96, these details bad been changed; both for the military and civilian versions of the pistol. Overall, they're mostly aesthetic changes. -- Orca*

==Screenshots needed==

This page needs someone with enough effort to add pictures for all of these guns. -GM

:I can't do screencaps, but I did add some details about some of the weapons such as where they can be found and such. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:I would agree that a game with this many weapons would be much better with more relevant screencaps, especially ones without watermarks. More relevant information about the guns themselves would also be welcome.

==Why the strange biases towards certain weapons and calibers in this game?==

It seems odd to me why the weapon/caliber selection is so odd in this game. Metal Gear Solid has been one of the best game series to prominently display the real names of every gun in the game, but I have to wonder if some of those companies Kojima got permission from paid him to underplay the abilities of other guns in this game.

For the calibers, it seems mighty odd that the Glock 18c is the only 9x19mm pistol in the entire game. Not even the rebels or militia use older 9x19mm pistols, which is very odd because you'd think that of the vast majority of older pistols that escaped the worldwide mandatory ID lock systems that is mentioned in the game's backstory would be 9x19mm pistols. Not even something like a Beretta M9 is used by the PMC troopers, even though it would be a nice free choice to have in Metal Gear Online.

The game also strangely features 7.62x51mm Battle Rifles where they aren't the most appropriate, such as how the PMCs use the FN SCAR-H even in the confines of urban ruins (as in Act 1) or an intact city (as in Act 3). Only the South American countryside in Act 2 would be an appropriate location for those Battle Rifles in the hands of general troopers. You'd think that Kojima with his weaponry knowledge would give them assault rifles/PDWs/shotguns instead while in urban operations, but that's somehow not the case.

Did H&K and FN pay Kojima to include (and in turn, advertise) their products a great deal in this highly-anticipated and wildly popular game? FN has the Five-SeveN, the P90, the SCAR-H, and the FAL all in the game, while H&K has the SOCOM pistol, the MP5SD2, the XM8, the G3A3, and the HK21E. Colt products and their users by contrast don't get that kind of exposure--Colt M4s are rare, and Colt M16s are completely non-existent in this game. I also think it's telling that the FN P90 has its 50 round magazine, a combat sight, a flashlight and a suppressor, but its competitor, the H&K MP7 has only a red dot sight and is stuck with its 20 round magazine (not its upgraded 40 round magazine) according to this game just can't compete.

Contrary to what some posters on this wiki have said elsewhere, I don't believe this game is biased towards the latest and greatest weapons in general, as several weapons here such as the Vz. 83, the FN FAL carbine, the G3A3, the MAC-10, the Mosin Nagant, the PKM, the RPG-7 and the SVD Dragonuv are quite old.

Kojima definitely spent some time doing weapons research for this game, but did he ever come out with a reason as to why the game chose such odd additions to its arsenal? His personal favourite gun is the Barret M82, something not suited for general combat, so maybe he himself doesn't know as much as the ingame info might imply. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the same arguments could be said about any of the Tom Clancy games like Rainbow Six Vegas and it's whoring worth of H&K weaponry [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

It would seem to me that if HK and FN paid Kojima off to showcase (or "whore out", whichever you reading this prefers) their tech, weapons like the XM8 and SCAR-H wouldn't be seemingly outclassed by the M4. You can kit the M4 out with anything and everything, while the SCAR-H lacks a suppressor and grenade launcher (severely hindering its flexibility) and the only thing the XM8 gets is the grenade launcher. Heck, the M4 is pretty much a CQB, grenadier, and designated marksman carbine all in one package (and I typically use it as such, often foregoing the actual ''sniper rifles'' in the game in long range combat for the M4 equipped with an ACOG). If HK or FN had paid him off, it would seem logical for the M4 to be totally outclassed in-game by both the XM8 and SCAR-H. Not only those points, but the M4 and the 1911s (I say 1911s collectively because cutscenes seem to automatically replace every non-1911 pistol in your inventory with the Operator) are implied to be Snake's signature weapons this time around. If he were paid off, why aren't the Mark 23 and XM8 or Five-Seven and SCAR-H his signature weapons? Also where's the PSG1, the so-called "greatest sniper rifle in the world" (or so HK says)? And I also feel the urge to point out that the HK21E has '''0''' modifications for it as well as a ridiculously slow ROF, which makes the M60E4 ''clearly'' superior to it. Now, I'm not exactly ''defending'' either company here, but it just seems to me that if they had paid Kojima off, the biases pointed out here would be far more extreme. As it stands, I just think Kojima wanted the weapons he likes the most to be the ones players used the most. Regarding the "old" weapons in the game, they may have seen a few years, yes, but FALs, G3s, Dragunovs, PKs, and above all the RPG-7 are so ubiquitous today that we'll be seeing them on modern battlefields, ''especially'' ones in the Middle East, for decades to come. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

:Actually, now that I've spent some time thinking about it, the M4 and M1911 in MGS4 may not actually be Colt products at all. After all, didn't a court decision in real life rule that an M4 is a type of firearm and not a Colt trademark at all? It's kind of like how an "M1911-style pistol" is also a type of pistol, not a Colt trademark which is why there are dozens if not hundreds of kinds of "M1911-style pistols" for sale on the general market today. I wonder if Kojima asked Colt to use their trademarks and got rebuffed for whatever reason, which might have caused him to withdraw the M4s from the PMCs and substitute FN SCAR-Hs until someone told him he could just call it an M4 (though not a Colt M4) and avoid copyright infringement.

:On the issue of customizability, I think the M4's customizability compared to, for instance, the XM8 and FN SCAR-H is a bit of laziness on the part of Kojima. I don't think there's any reason why they couldn't just stick the M14 EBR's suppressor model on the end of the FN SCAR-H or G3A3 and turn those two into suppressed firearms, for instance. They could have also stuck the M4's suppressor model onto the AK-101 or XM8 as well (in my opinion the XM8's integral red dot sight in MGS4 is easier to use than the M4's, being a great deal less claustrophobic than the M4's version). Something like the FN EGLM would have been nice on the SCAR-H (or the SCAR-L had they bothered to give the PMCs assault rifles in urban areas) but unlike the M320 or GP-30, would only have gone on one weapon (unless the SCAR-L was included) and possibly not have been good on the cost-benefit analysis. But my point, that the customizability of many of the weapon systems (where are the PSO-1 scopes for the AN-94 and AK-102, for instance?) is more an artifact of the design decision than the reality of the weapons in question. Of course, even with the full "real-life" customizability, the M4 would still be the only one capable of carrying an underslung shotgun, which I think is unique enough (though I bet the XM8 could have gotten one had it been adopted, and I'm sure one will be designed for the FN SCAR models if it proves itself in the field enough).

:Oh, and one of the reasons why you can snipe with the M4 is because the game over-emphasizes headshots and doesn't implement ballistic physics for bullets. If it did, bullet drop would come into play (especially since the M4's short barrel means that less velocity and energy is imparted to the bullet, resulting in less effective range), moreso with the M4 than the FN SCAR-H or M14 EBR for instance. I think the game would have been more fun if helmets were stronger (for instance, 5 helmet hits from most pistol weapons to kill, 3 helmet hits from 5.56mm weapons to kill someone, or 2 7.62x51mm/PDW ammunition hits, or 1 9x39mm/shotgun slug hit), forcing the player to aim for the exposed face or neck to guarantee a one-hit headshot kill).

:I only mentioned those weapons as "old" so as to defuse claims that Kojima was only focussed on the "latest and greatest."

:It would have been nice if a PSG-1 and FAMAS (both weapons used in MGS1) showed up in the game for old time's sake, but that was not to be. Still, that doesn't resolve the question of why HK's PDW (the MP7A1) is so inferior to FN's PDW (the P90) in this game. Even the wikipedia image of the MP7A1 shows it with a suppressor and 40 round magazine, along with custom optics. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:25, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::Play on a higher difficulty level. The strength of the PMC's helmets varies. On the easiest level, a single 9mm round will punch through. On the highest level, it takes a couple of rounds of 7.62 NATO to punch through. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:50, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

One imagines a general switch from assault rifles back to battle rifles would occur in a world where you might reasonably expect to encounter extremely tough infantry armour or power suits; given the nature of the PMCs as private entities, being "equipped for anything" is probably a selling point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:23, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:Sure, but if you're really "equipped for anything" you'd issue what's needed for the environment. And the PMCs in Act 2 (South America) still use the SCAR-H CQC even though in open countryside that barrel length is more of a liability than anything else. Even the Leftist insurgents are using full-size G3A3s in that stage. In a battle rifle, the shorter the barrel, the more of the cartridge's energy goes to waste as useless muzzle flash and sound. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::To be fair, Pieuvre Armement also have more support weapons than any of the other PMCs (snipers, HMGs, grenade launchers, and a lot of mounted guns) and it looks like they were primarily hired to defend key government structures rather than fight it out in the open. Perhaps with the SCARs they just got a bulk discount, or given it's a private entity it could just be one of the directors like the look of the weapon / someone was impressed by the salesman's spiel / someone was sleeping with someone else / whatever. Out of game, it makes some sense; it means you only need one set of gestures coded for NPC / rifle no matter what level they're in. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:19, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:If Kojima's aim was to make the FN SCAR-H a "this is one of the signature enemy NPC guns" type of thing, then that does make some sense, but that doesn't even cover how many Pieuvre Armement troopers can be found patrolling in the open, sometimes ambushed by Leftist insurgents, or the lack of customizability options for the FN SCAR-H.

:Furthermore, if Kojima and his team could afford the time and money to put the KAC Masterkey on the M4A1 Carbine (an accessory that can be mounted on no other weapon in this game) you could just as easily do the same kind of work and stick an FN EGLM grenade launcher to the SCAR-H (it uses the same swing-out cylinder as does the M320 grenade launcher, so the animations would be largely the same), to say nothing of a suppressor or the LSS underslung shotgun for the XM8. And why not rip off the Mk. 14 Mod 0's suppressor to use on the SCAR-H, G3A3 or the FAL carbine? Before you tell me "they don't have barrel threading," neither does Snake's Operator pistol, his very first suppressed lethal weapon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:31, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
::Uh dude, Snake's Operator does have a threaded barrel, did you even look at the pics... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:41, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I stand corrected, the thumbnail made the threading blend together into a featureless grey. Regardless, my other points stand. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:55, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I think the idea was to make players want to use the M4 over other weapons (I guess to emphasise it), so the SCAR couldn't be as good as it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:07, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Noteworthy is the fact that the Masterkey in reality doesn't come in a rail-mounted version like is shown in-game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:44, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

== Mk. 23 Mod 0 ==
I just have to ask this; why does Snake like using the H&K Mk. 23? I mean, from everything I've heard/read about them, the USP compact tactical variant is much better, so why doesn't Snake use that?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 16:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

He uses it because the designers wanted him to use it. And if you've ever shot a Mk23 you'd know that it is vastly superior to the entire USP series in every possible way other than weight and weight shouldnt be an issue you're looking for a combat handgun.
-Double Agent M

:Um, yes, weight ''is'' an issue in a combat handgun. Weight is ''always'' an issue when it comes to the weapons and gear used by soldiers. That's why the Mark 23 ''failed'' as a combat handgun and lavished on supply shelves instead of inside holsters like the various 1911 makes and even the entire USP series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I've been meaning to ask this for a while now on the HK Mk. 23's page, but since this was brought up, I might as well ask it here: why ''was'' the Mk. 23 made so big and bulky in the first place, if its performance could have been replicated in the smaller USP series? It's close in size to the Desert Eagle despite firing a smaller (and more combat-practical) cartridge. Was it to ensure ruggedness, resistance to salt water damage, and reliability? Or something else? It's always puzzled me about this pistol that is one of the signature weapons of the Metal Gear Solid series (making appearances in 1, 2, and 4). Of course, it could be that Kojima just thinks it's a "cool gun" . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Its weight helps counteract recoil, the elongated barrel improves accuracy, and right out of the box it can be fitted with a suppressor and a LEM. It's bulky enough so that if you need to you can beat a man to death with it. It's a fantastic combat handgun but where it loses out to Berettas and Colts is in complexity. Because of it's raw size you cant just whip it around and the controls can take some getting used to. It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm.
-Double Agent M

:Supposedly the USP Compact Tactical can mount a suppressor and Laser Aiming Module, but only has 8 rounds in .45 ACP. Also, as a "Offensive Handgun Weapons System," the SOCOM pistol supposed to be usable as a primary weapon when killing is supposed to be done discreetly, such as many situations in the Metal Gear Solid series. On paper I can see why it's better, but if the hands-on experience of operators deems it as "uncomfortable to carry and use," then their complaints trump the on-paper benefits.

:Of course, "uncomfortable" and "hard to use" is a bit of a relative term, since training and practice can certainly acclimatise someone to almost any well-designed weapons system, but that takes time, money, and perseverance. Given that handguns are hardly a primary weapon system anymore, and the majority those who do professionally use them as such (such as average beat cops) don't train with them to be expert shooters most of the time, I suppose ease of use is a major factor because it's the easier way out instead of spending time to get used to a better-on-paper but less-user-friendly weapon. If "better-on-paper" mattered more, wouldn't the FBI be using Glock 20 pistols instead of Glock 22 pistols? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:48, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with you. :) But I'd still love to get a hold of one and try it for myself. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:: "It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm." <-I love this kind of thing. Sure, a pistol that's a foot and an half long with a suppressor and weighs as much as an empty MP5 is a much better compliment to your primary weapon than it's weight in extra magazines ''for'' that primary weapon. Think you needed to lay off the HK propaganda there, "Agent M." To actually answer the question, they used the Mk23 because it's huge and blocky (same reason Meryl got that 50 AE Deagle), so it's easy for the player to see it in Snake's hands and for the PS1 to render it. Simple as that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:42, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:::I've heard from a lot people who actually own MK 23s and they say that their excellent weapons (and no, it was not "HK propaganda"). - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::::From what I've heard, they're excellent weapons in terms of accuracy (which comes from being gigantic and heavy) but not something you'd want to take into combat; they're too big for a backup weapon and not capable enough as a primary weapon. Also, anyone who drops the cost of a Mk23 on a pistol is going to have thought it was an excellent weapon ''before'' they bought it, otherwise they never would have done so in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:56, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::::I would buy one, but hey, a four pound .44 Magnum revolver feels like nothing in my hands, and I'm only a medium-sized guy with not much of a build. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

== Meryl's Desert Eagle ==

Just how "combat-effective" would the ballistics of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle be? What might the effective range be, and would it regularly penetrate the body armour of the FROG troopers she faces? Or would she be better off with an 40-round MP7A1 (to go with the theme of "biggest to smallest" weapons of the Rat Patrol) when fighting the FROG troopers in Advent Palace and Outer Haven? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

*I've got an Airsoft Desert Eagle (bought many years ago, mind) that came with both barrels, and it's weighted to the point you can see what a bad idea it is: it's ridiculously front-heavy with that barrel extension, and I imagine with a scope as well it'd probably weigh as much as the MP7 anyway. So maybe it could penetrate body armour and maybe it couldn't, but you'd still have better ergo from using a 1911 duct-taped to the head of a banjo. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:21, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Okay, so that Airsoft model exactly duplicates the loaded weight of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle? That's rather interesting. Even if it couldn't penetrate the body armour the FROGs seem to be wearing, would the impact force be enough to inflict blunt trauma on the FROGs, such as broken ribs, concussions, or the like? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:15, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

Well back when I did Airsoft, I played for functionality and being simple. Sure my team and I decked out our guns, but nothing more than red dot sights, and vertical grips. Because it isn't real firearms, we tried to not equip like we would a real weapon because it's not the same thing. Lighter is always better. The less we have to carry, the better. That being said, I would never get an Airsoft Desert Eagle to shoot in games. For fun, yeah. It'll be cool to run around the woods with the 10in barrel and a scope mounted on it, but you wouldn't get any good range with an airsoft pistol anyway, even if it is gas powered. Now a REAL Desert Eagle, I'd get for fun, but that's only after I get my more practical guns first.

Anyway, I think from a character standpoint, Meryl's character is supposed to be a "tough chick" so what's the iconic tough guy gun? A Desert Eagle from the action movies. I don't know if the .50 AE could go through body armor [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Yeah, I just use it for plinking spiders because I have a high ceiling. Bought it because I was a teenager and it was a Desert Eagle, I will make no excuses on that front. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 10:48, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

::lol, I also bought a Airsoft Desert Eagle when I was a teenager and I still have it. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:50, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, living here in Comrade Elizabeth's Glorious People's Republic of Englandstan makes it easy to hang on to it since if I'm reading this correctly I couldn't legally sell it anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

::::lol. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:49, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

:Well I admit before I knew anything about the M16, I was very anti-gun kid in early high school. Then when I got to know guns, I thought the M16 is this Vietnam piece of crap that jams all the time and the AK is the ultimate assault rifle until I grew up and got a more objective view of guns. When buying my first Airsoft, I bought a P90 cause I was a fan of Stargate...then I discovered a P90 Airsoft is useless, inaccurate and has terrible range. So I went and bought an M733, and then realize that you need a longer barrel for range and accuracy and that evolved to my M4 type rifle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:59, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

One more thing; does the reloading style Meryl uses in the fight inside Outer Haven's computer room have a name (where she jams one of her magazines into the crook of her knee while firing with her other hand, before reloading an empty Desert Eagle with the magazine held in her knee)? I see so many adds for shooting schools with patented styles around I have to wonder if this comes from one of them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:11, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Tanegashima rifle ==

Why isn't it on the page?

:Thanks to Evil Tim's hard work, it is now on the page. However, there's something that remains to be investigated; I've heard conflicting reports about whether or not the Tanegashima arquebus will always fire its "divine wind" (translated version of the Japanese word "Kamikaze") tornado if you fire it in the opposite direction of the wind in a singleplayer level. That could be something worth looking into. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:15, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::I'll check up on that; I'd just heard it was a one-third chance per shot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:51, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::Nope, nothing to do with the wind direction, I tried with and against the wind, and in the end it just went off at random like usual. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:17, 3 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see it was just a rumour then. Still, I'm puzzled as to why you didn't take a screenshot highlighting the extreme silliness of the weapon; it would have been worth a chuckle to see a screenshot of PMCs caught in the tornado flying in a spiral while dropping far more items than they could ever carry in real life while collecting their "frequent flier miles."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:57, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well, I accidentally selected Solid Normal rather than Big Wuss Easy, and it's hard enough getting the Tanegashima to do its thing normally, nevermind trying to check how it's affected by the direction of the wind while being shot at. I'm doing enough stupid things to burn through rations as it is :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:58, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see; I guess not all of us have the time to learn how not to get shot up less in this game (here's a tip; going prone or crawling is the best way to use your Octocamo). Would have been nice to see PMCs flying in a big spiral anyhow on this wiki. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:43, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well sure, I can be pretty sneaky when I'm not doing stupid things like seeing if I can get a Gekko to throw a grenade at me. Same as I'm trying to avoid wearing the Octocamo hood even though it's good for your camo index, because it also makes Snake look really stoopid. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Someone needs to finish this page ==

This page is how old and no one has finished it? Someone needs to start doing it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:17, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Well I don't have this game and it's a chore to get all the screenshots second hand [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I've got a much better capture device than I used to, so I could probably do this at some stage; the main problem is I'd have to record it first (since the software with the Dazzle crashes every time I take a screenshot and BSODs the entire computer if I try to take more than one); I'll have a crack at it next time I'm off work. Don't want to just stand in a corner looking at the same thing for every gun, that makes for dull page. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

:Please do. Stealth camo would be useful to take screenshots of weapons in the hands of NPCs (such as the MP7 or the like). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

::Still on this. It's going to take a while before I have time (especially since I'll need to record some of those billion hours of cutscenes), but I haven't forgotten. I'll probably get Twin Snakes and cap the whole series, since doing PS1 MGS1 without first-person aim mode for caps would be a bit pointless. "Look, Snake has a FAMAS! Down there in his hands...oh just click on the damn image and press your nose right up to the screen." Only thing I really need from that is a comparison shot of the Abrams, since the original game's one had two M2 Brownings instead of one. Also I've got an MGS2 trailer somewhere showing Snake with a FAMAS, so I'll have to add that to the 2 page. I'm hoping I can find a picture of the wooden prop version of Fortune's railgun that they built for motion capture. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:31, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Good to know. I'm looking forward to a full version of this page. I would have finished the MGS2 page myself, except that the PC version I have (the official KONAMI port) is somewhat poorly optimized, with some textures missing or improperly rendered (and what do you mean, KONAMI, that we can't use the mouse to aim in FPV or duplicate the pressure sensitive button functions from a PS2 controller with a keyboard?!). Also, the FAMAS in MGS2 is only usable on the demo version of MGS2 (though it does show up in some cutscenes in the Plant chapter for some strange reason). Did they reuse the MGS2 Demo FAMAS for the Twin Snakes? Perhaps you can find out. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:54, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, that'd be worth checking. I heard GIAT (it was still GIAT back then) got very precious about their intellectual property after they realised people wanted to put the FAMAS in games (they're the same about model companies and the LeClerc, Tamiya had to stick their logo and "officially endorsed" on the box of their LeClerc kit) and I think that's why Konami pulled the FAMAS from 2 and never had it turn up again even in 4. Probably they couldn't say no to using it in a remake since they'd already said yes the first time. I've still got the demo of 2 (only reason anyone bought ''Zone of the Enders'', after all) and the FAMAS isn't in that either; it goes from the start of Tanker to the end of the boss fight with Olga, and only gives you the M9 and USP. It was only ever in the early trailers showing Snake on the Tanker. I heard there's some other changes like the guys in the Warhead Storage room using ring airfoil rounds rather than just instakilling you with a radiation leak if you were spotted. Also, you didn't miss anything with the pressure sensitive buttons, trying to half-hold the fire button to aim a rifle in first person was terrible. Apparently the "Tanegashima" is a Japanese copy of a Portugese arquebus design (sayeth Wikipedia, anyway), so I'll have to add that to the page too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:19, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, copyright is a sticky situation (go look at one of my earlier comments here and notice how there are no Colt products in this game, despite the presence of an M4A1 Carbine and an M1911). Ubisoft got around it because the FAMAS appears in Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by its real name, so why not MGS4? And I was wrong; the FAMAS is coded within the MGS2 demo, but it is only accessible [http://youtu.be/MxfMCXcpGx8 via a code]. And actually there are a few uses for the pressure-sensitive buttons in MGS2--without them you bang your head against a locker ventilation grille when trying to look out, alerting any nearby enemies. You also can't aim an assault rifle without the pressure-sensitive controls, which made controlling them on the PC next to impossible. Another problem is you can't lower a pistol without firing it if you don't let go of the aiming button gently (I got around this on the PC version by unequipping my weapon). Finally, the distance you throw grenades is determined by how hard you press the pressure-sensitive button (but they were almost useless anyway since throwing a frag or flashbang grenade automatically causes an alert upon detonation and frags have a small damage radius). All this made for a frustratingly bad PC port, which is why I caved in and got the PS2 version afterwards. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:20, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

Well, made a start before realising I'm going to have to crop the borders off every image by hand. :( Ah well, they're just placeholders anyway just so we can get rid of the IGN watermarks and have actual game images. For now they can keep the borders and I'll replace them all when I do this page properly. I hope you appreciate my sacrifice, I had to uninstall Vanquish to get these. Stupid 40 gig PS3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:35, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Good work so far Tim. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:40, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

*Ok, I'll put up the explosives later today (since we don't have them at all). I'm fairly sure the railgun qualifies as reasonably believable; it was actually built as a physical object (a wooden MoCap prop) and looks like an XM25 that's eaten its Wheaties. And then everyone else's Wheaties. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:29, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Anyone remember where the PMCs with standalone Masterkeys show up? I think it's somewhere in Act 2, but I can't remember if you have to cause an alert or if they're just ahead of where I stopped recording (partway through Confinement Facility). Also, don't worry, the shots aren't all going to be from Act 2. Also added a spoiler warning since, well, I can hardly ''not'' have a shot of A Certain Person holding the Patriot, and the fourth Act being on Shadow Moses is kind of a spoiler too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:There's definitely at least one in the Confinement Facility, check out about 10:50 of this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg87rbI3CXU#t=10m50s], there's a guard with one who shows up with one at the right edge of the screen (pretty sure he always respawns there with a Masterkey). --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:27, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, that's an XM320, he's one of the pair I've got a shot of in that section. You can hear a "phut" rather than a shotgun blast when he fires. But I know there's people with standalone Masterkeys somewhere, because I remember being puzzled at why on earth you would create such a thing. (edit) Ah, MG Wiki says there's one at the gate of Vista Mansion. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Also, considering all the shit that fits inside Metal Gear Mk. 2 (50 Stingers, 50 Javelins, 50 LAWs, a Barrett, a railgun the size of a pony, etc) why does it never occur to Snake to hide inside it himself? I know they kind of joked about it with Snake being able to pocket a drum can that's bigger than he is, but still. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:36, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

It's called a "Hyperspace Arsenal." I would be all for a realistic mode that forced you to carry guns that are too big right from the beginning of a mission rather than have them delivered by the mini-Metal Gear, or have you collect them after a period of time after "requesting" them at a cache location dropped off by Drebin, or else only be able to transfer/launder/buy ammo just after meeting Drebin in cutscenes. Still, that wouldn't address the other realism issues this game has, such as how the NPCs are indestructible--shouldn't shooting them with .50 BMG weapons or high explosives blow off limbs or reduce them to ludicrous gibs? And what about the octocamo system; wouldn't the human eye only be realistically fooled if Snake was hiding in foliage or else, quite some distance away, lest the enemies spot his outline and start shooting at Snake?

In any case, do you think you could also include tidbits on which guns need to be laundered and which don't need to be? It'd be a nice tidbit, since the entry already includes which guns are available in multiplayer and which aren't. I'm very much looking forward to seeing more great screenshots of this game's guns--do you think it'd be possible for you to equip stealth camo and enter First Person view so we can see NPCs with holding their guns up close?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:06, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm afraid I don't have stealth camo (I can never resist firing LAWs at Strykers :() but I tend to prefer wider shots with things actually going on in them; just focusing right in on the gun makes the page rather dull to look through, IMO (I ''hate'' those CoD page images with everything cropped out but one corner of the screen; just imagine if you took the shot of Dirty Harry holding his revolver in the "do you feel lucky?" scene and cut out everything but the revolver). Also, I'm fairly sure the player and world models for weapons are exactly the same in this game. Still, it's not that hard to get close when you're recording video rather than taking individual screenshots, and it's even easier to get close to the totally broken Raven Sword AI in Act 3. Plus you can get great views of almost all the PMC weapons in cutscenes anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:53, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I didn't mean cropping the images so that only the guns are visible; I was just saying that with Stealth camo you could get within punching (or kissing) distance of the various NPCs in the game so you could get good pics of them holding their weapons without the annoying black-screen parts from scopes or the HUD marks in the centre of the screen if you use Snake's binocular's or the mini-Metal Gear's camera view. Also, could you please please please make a screenshot of the FROG firing her DSR-1 at Big Mama followed by the latter's "I'm fine" despite not wearing any body armour? I find it one of the more unintentionally hilarious parts of the game. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'll be sure to get that, yes. Though for me the funniest sequence was the part before the "guns of the Patriots" part, where the US Army were pointing guns at Liquid Ocelot's boat and making clicking noises for so long it became ridiculous. Of course the Foxdie scene was funnier, but probably intentional (Snake and Liquid do the "Fox..." "...Die" bit, Liquid Ocelot jumps up and runs away cackling ridiculously and Snake responds by falling over). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Heh heh, it's funny how after the "Guns of the Patriots" scene, Drebin's prices fall flat on their faces with a permanent 50% discount until the end of the game. Of course, that raises the question about why Drebin's prices never go up; wouldn't the complete lock-out of ID-locked firearms mean that the services of gun launderers like Drebin would be more in demand than ever (resulting in a huge price increase), even if just to keep the Rebels who use naked guns from killing all the ID-locked gun users? It's just another entry in the long list of this game's realism problems. And of course, the first FOXDIE scene is another manifestation of how wrong it was to let Kojima direct the game, since he's so firmly stuck in MGS1's shadow the plot of MGS4 is so firmly stuck in the first game's mold. Of course, that's got nothing to do with the weaponry in the game, but I'm still looking forward to this page's completion nonetheless. By the way, have you seen Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN!" ability in Metal Gear Online yet?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:47, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:I must admit I've never played MGO. As for Kojima, I think he was at his best in MGS3 when he was making a tribute to something he loved (the old spy movies that had inspired the series in the first place, with their cool gadgets and ridiculous villians) and he's at his worst when he's trying to force out a game he seems to have regarded as his obligation; I remember that he didn't really want to be involved in 4 and only came back on board after the fans raised a stink about his being absent. He strikes me as a lot like Lucas, who was great when he was making a tribute to the old-fashioned sci-fi he grew up with and hideous when he was left making something he didn't really care for except as a way to make money. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:57, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Funny that you mentioned George Lucas. I have to wonder whether or not Kojima took some inspiration from Lucas when he decided to make his newest, completely over-referenced MacGuffin: nanomachines that do almost everything, from track biological functions to serve as ID keys, even form the basis for mind control or emotional manipulation. Kind of reminded me of Lucas' "midi-chlorians," since the two of them are both blood-borne squiggly things. Oh well, the fans, like everyone else, don't always know how what they want isn't necessarily what they need. And even the greatest of us can succumb to "Creator's Conceit," whereupon one starts believing in the delusion that "because I made this best-selling piece of media, I can change it however I want, heedless of the needs of believability, plausibility, realism or even my own previous work." Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN" ability in Metal Gear Online can be seen in full force [http://youtu.be/XM7yc5Gf_OU here]. You should give Metal Gear Online a try if you have the money; its training mode is great for taking pictures of the unique characters and their weapons, and it is the only mode where you can use the ballistic shield, or hear the various multiplayer characters do their Rambo impressions while firing an M60E4. Once again, a hearty thank you for your hard work. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:26, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think I'm immune to stupid depictions of nanomachines after playing the two ''Deus Ex'' games, expecially the second one where you apparently have a nanoforge in every weapon that makes the relevant ammo type out of a universal base material ''as you fire''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm trying to remember: I know there's no flashback of Vulcan Raven, but wasn't there one of Sniper Wolf that showed her PSG-1 at one point? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:59, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

::The various flashbacks in Act 4 can be found [http://youtu.be/81A3yb_FATg here] and [http://youtu.be/aznWCpBYkKQ here]. You can check those out at your leisure. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:50, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

:::The links you're posting don't work [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

::Pardon me, they're fixed now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:13, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Right, that's me out for today, getting sleepy. Got a lot more caps to get off this Act 1 video, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:13, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think if you see Sniper Wolf's PSG-1 it's part of Crying Wolf's death scene or Naomi's (I seem to recall there's an X button prompt when Otacon is getting upset about that whole thing where everyone he displays the slightest affection for dies instantly), which that doesn't have. Regardless, been a little busy, but should have some new caps up soon. I'm trying to get everything with a Browning M2, so IIRC I still need the Stryker MGS from Act 2, the Humvee in Act 3 and the derelict M1 tank in the hanger in Act 4. I'll finally be able to take that "Incomplete" down once I get a shot of Rex, Ray or one of ''Missouri's'' Phalanxes. Also might see if I can ID those two giant cannons on Liquid's boat, at least in a caption. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:10, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was right, you ''do'' have an X button flashback there. There's also a painting of Big Boss holding his old Mark 22 in Big Mama's church, because it makes sense for one of those to be there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:12, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Having never had a chance to really pay attention to the Vamp / Raiden fight until now, I must admit I laughed my ass off at the part where Raiden has both arms pinned to his back and so blocks Vamp's arm and then throws him using only his teeth. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:36, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot requests ==

I know Evil Tim's busy, but this might be a good opportunity to let him know what screenshots might be appropriate to showcase each weapon.
*Five-seveN pistol: Old Snake commits "sexual assault" at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper with her own pistol while patting her down for items, along with the "crotch grab" move.
*MAC-10/G18C: Old Snake tries out for a movie of "Bonnie and Clyde" while performing a drive-by shooting from Big Mama's motorcycle.
*M4 Custom: For some reason, Old Snake has taken up the habit of shooting this carbine while holding it sideways.
*Shansi Type 17: Big Mama gets her awesome on by shooting up some Dwarf Gekko drones with her Type 17 pistol.
*MP7A1: Isn't there a PMC in Act 2 carrying this weapon who is distracted by a Playboy Magazine?
Sometimes funny screenshots make entries on this wiki all the more entertaining to read. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

*Might try that
*Almost certainly going to do something like that
*When does he hold it sideways, again?
*Yes
*Yes

Also, totally going to show how you can kill a Gekko with the SVD. Just a note: you don't have to call him Old Snake in every caption. The game only calls him that occasionally and he's "Snake" the rest of the time, and it's not like this is MGS1 and there's two people potentially called "Snake" (even in that case, they always call him Snake and his brother Liquid, so there's only minimal potential for confusion). I could see there being some issues with what to call Big Boss in 3, but this guy is still Snake. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:06, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:I call him "Old Snake" because that's the name above his lifebar, and because that name clearly refers to him in the MGS4 time period. Of course, if you really want to be pedantic, it could be argued that Liquid Snake and Solid Snake should have called each other Liquid and Solid instead of Liquid and Snake (I think the latter combination was chosen because it sounds less silly). If you prefer to just call him Snake in the article, feel free to change that part pack. And Old Snake holds his M4A1 carbine sideways once when engaging the Pieuvre Armement PMCs who are taking Naomi away after headshotting Vamp. Another US Marine aboard the Missouri holds his M4A1 Carbine while trembling with fear as the Dwarf Gekkos execute a boarding action right outside the Missouri's bridge. That's all I can remember right now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:37, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and if you want to show the Vulcan Cannons on the Missouri battleship, shouldn't you include the dramatic close-up shot of its CIWS cannons firing like hell trying to intercept the swarm of anti-ship missiles launched from Outer Haven? The one available now only shows the CIWS cannons in a distant shot. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:58, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:The one you're thinking of is a rather dull closeup of the installation from the ''rear'', I wanted this one because it shows the main guns and looks awesome. The Phalanx shots are exclusively taken to show off ''Missouri'', the installations can piss off. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:15, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Incidentally

[[Image:MGS4-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Ray should not have been allowed to use the hydrocutter as it's opening attack. >:( Also, just noticed that half the "Street Fighter" attacks use the beak to grab Ray, even though it's where Snake is sitting and at least two of them would clearly kill him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Question ==

Do real suppressors degrade like in MGS3 and MGS4? I think not, or at least it's ''very'' exaggerated in these game. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:50, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:old style wipe suppressors do degrade over time. Maxim type supressors and supressors designed after the 1960s don't degrade. You will have to clean them out after combat load but with the lenght of most computer games it should not be an issue as there isn't the time for junk to build up to the point where the supressor will fail. Basically if you take the time to clean you equipment every so often things should't go bad. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:32, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thank you. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:45, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:Yep, suppressors in this game are another problem with its realism. The wipe-style suppressors in MGS3 would indeed degrade, sometimes after as low as 5 to 10 shots. Modern suppressors can last for thousands of rounds of semiautomatic fire, but less if fully-automatic fire is used.
:In reality, detachable suppressors fitted to weapons with supersonic ammunition (Drebin doesn't sell subsonic versions of normally supersonic ammunition, such as 5.56mm NATO, 7.62mm NATO, etc.) would not be as stealthy as depicted, especially at the ranges you fight at in this game. Try dropping a phone book from a height of 5 feet (or 150 cm in metric) onto a hard floor that is not covered by a rug or carpet--that's close to what even the best suppressors can do. At most of the ranges you shoot at in this game, real people would definitely notice (if not necessarily know where you are) and would immediately trigger a caution phase unless your first shot killed someone who was all by his lonesome. Suppressors can't deal with the sonic boom caused by supersonic ammunition, either, which can alert people. This is why the quietest suppressed weapons use subsonic ammunition (such as .45 ACP, or Russian 9x39mm ammo, etc.), or a special integral suppressor (like that on the MP5SD2) that slows supersonic ammunition down to subsonic speeds. Even that doesn't do anything for the clacking noises caused by the cycling of a (semi)automatic weapon's action, which is why the tranquilizer pistols in MGS2, 3, and 4 all use slide locks to eliminate that.
:Another problem is that suppressors, by slowing down the hot gas from fired rounds, cause a gun to overheat faster (because the slowed gas has more time to impart its heat to the weapon). Again, this is generally not a problem unless you forgo all fire discipline and keep firing in full auto; then you might have reason to detach an overheated suppressor and put a new one in place. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:08, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
Last ime I helped put rounds through a MP5 with a detachable supressor it took a bit for the supressor to cool enough that it could be removed from the barrel. Of course we put 120 rounds through it with mostly magazine dumps as we were just testing the guns funtion.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Thanks guys. Well a suppressor is not meant to suppress gun fire so people in the same room can't hear it, it's meant so people in the whole building and in the city outside the building can't hear it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:46, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:Oops, forgot to mention that another way to remove the "clack-clack" sounds of a firearm's action (which can be louder than a suppressed gun's muzzle blast if the suppressor is good enough), aside from slide locks. Any type of round cycling that needs to be manually operated (such as bolt action, pump-action, etc.) will eliminate that sound. Too bad the DSR-1 couldn't be suppressed in this game; combined with its bolt action you'd get a very powerful, quiet, and lethal counterpart to the Mosin Nagant tranq rifle. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:45, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

== Just checking something ==

Of the M4, Drebin says "The barrel's free floating, of course." Now, you can see from the shot of Snake firing that even the ''handguard'' isn't free-floating, but isn't it a contradiction in terms for a direct impingement rifle to have a free-floating barrel since the barrel ''has'' to be touching something other than the reciever, namely the gas tube? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:I hear of free-floating barrels on AR-15s all the time, I think "free-floating" means nothing but the receiver (and the gas tube) is holding the barrel in place. At least, that's what I know. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:36, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
It could be a bit of "Kojima nonsense" that snuck its way into the script (kind of like how Drebin claims the PMCs love to use the M4A1 Carbine, when in fact none of them do, and the game gives you the impression that Drebin is just foisting off old, obsolete stock onto Old Snake). After all, are we really supposed to believe that Fatman from Metal Gear Solid 2 built his first atomic bomb(!) at age 10? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:56, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
::I guess it could also be a translation error of some kind, since there's a few of those knocking around; I've just got to the first case of them mangling a symmetrical sentence by having Naomi alternate "fate" and "destiny" rather than just saying "it" the second time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Or it could be Kojima's notoriously inconsistent stance on the realism/unrealism scale, especially when it comes to weaponry. First in MGS2 they let us render any enemy limb useless in a single lethal weapon hit (a feature that never returned), but in that same game they let us use the Stinger Missile Launcher indoors (even though that kind of weapon would cause a cave-in or flooding in the Plant chapter). And now they ask us to believe that in some scenes, professional PMC operators can't hit Snake when he's in spitting distance (such as after he shoot Vamp in the head in South America). That scene might have worked if he was hiding some distance away using Octocamo, though. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:07, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and one more thing about the M4A1 in this game; why would you need to have a free-floating barrel on an automatic carbine? Wouldn't it just be simpler to insert a longer barrel, which would increase both accuracy and the bullet's effective range? Or, if you have the resources, you could always use better rounds (like the real life Mk 262) which have both longer effective range and accuracy than the standard 5.56mm NATO rounds in service now. That speech of Drebin's just makes him look like a "used car salesman"--it reeks of hucksterism. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:04, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown pistol ==

Any idea what this is in Johnny Sasaki's leg holster? USP, maybe?

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:26, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, even I'm a bit stumped, it's almost featureless. o_0 - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:12, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was going by the features it doesn't have, more. It's got a horizontal base to the grip while holstered, which rules out any 1911-based pistol, but it doesn't have a beavertail bigger than the one on an actual beaver, so it can't be a Desert Eagle. It's obviously not any pistol that's available in the game unless it's a very small Mark 23, and a very small Mark 23 is called a USP. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:25, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, am I hideously mistaken or is the Mk. 46 Mod 1 actually a Mod 0? The handguard doesn't look right for a Mod 1. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:01, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:Based on what the model looks like it could be a featureless USP or P226 (it's too small for a Mark 23), but without the said "features" it's almost impossible tell what it is. It could also be just a generic "holster stuffer". :P (P.S. what's the deference between the Mk. 46 Mod 1 and the Mod 0, I've only seen the Mod 0?) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:59, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::The forearm of the Mod 1 lacks the rail at the 12 o'clock position (FN Herestal has pictures of the Mod 1 on their website [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF055&gid=FNG008]). There's probably other differences, but either Google is failing me, or there's no info about on the Mod 1 upgrades on the entire internet. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:48, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:::[http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF059&gid=FNG008&mid=FNM0039 FN USA] says "improved receiver pins, a feed tray with retention pawls and a vented handguard with improved heat shield and three MIL-STD 1913 rails." Now, I've checked the reload animation and you can see it's got a 12-o-clock rail on the handguard, so it's a Mod 0. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also, of those two it'd have to be the USP, the SIG would have two screws visible holding the grips on. What I can tell you is the shape is intentional; it's ''not'' the same model used in PMC holsters; the ones I checked have a diagonal base to the grip and therefore are obviously supposed to be a GSR. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:34, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

Just to add these:

[[Image:MGS4-FROG-Holster.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FROG holster weapon, probably Five-seveN]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PMC Holster weapon, clearly GSR.]]
[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another angle on Johnny's weapon, and one where they seem to have forgotten to add that delightful skidmark to his trousers, too.]]

Incidentally, ID'ing this one will take us up to 76 weapons with only one not ID'd (the land mine). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:25, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

But it doesn't have the finger tip-shaped slots at the mag well to be a USP ether... In the last pic of Johnny the pistol now looks like a stubby Desert Eagle because of the way the grip looks. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:53, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Well, there should be some closer shots of it when I finally get off my ass and get around to recording and capping stage 3, there's a lot of closeups of the Rat Patrol members at the end of that one that should settle it if it actually is something. Interestingly, Meryl also has that holster as part of her uniform, but hers is empty (Deagle the first has a horizontal chest holster). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Think this is the best shot you're likely to get. Now, I'm going to bed, I just spent hours recording the entire third Act and at least half of the fourth and it's 3am. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

:Looks kinda like a Desert Eagle with the beavertail milled down, wow this is hard. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:27, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::Seems it's actually a Mark 23, since Raiden's character weapon (aside from a heap of pointy things) is a Mark 23, and he has the same holster. Holster looks to be very similar to [http://airsoftbb4u.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=402 one of these]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:10, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::You could be right, but still looks off from a Mark 23, I see a metal tang on the grip like the Desert Eagle. Err. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:04, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Might just be a mistake in the model. It's certainly supposed to be a Mark 23 (it's Raiden's only gun in multi), but since they never draw them (unlike FROGs and PMCs, who do draw their sidearms if they're disarmed), there was probably no obligation to actually put a drawable gun in there. I can't remember if Johnny pulls out his sidearm when they're defending the door or not, I'll have to see if they'll actually settle it for us or not. Otherwise we'll just have to say it's an inaccurate Mark 23. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:09, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Johnny does use his sidearm there. He uses a GSR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

== Note about the M4 and the "big PMCs" ==
They ''did'' use the M4 in early builds of the game [http://ranger.gamebanana.com/img/ss/srends/thm__2863-.jpg] [http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/God-of-Reapers/metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-p-1.jpg], but it was changed to the Mark 17 at some point for some unknown reason. Snake even got ''his'' M4 by taking it from a PMC in an early trailer. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
:Regarding the Patriot, wouldn't it fall under the same hideously ill-defined "PDW" label as the XM8 Compact? It does rather seem that PDW just stands for whatever your marketing department wants it to: HK definately called the XM8 compact a PDW in sales fluff, and invented the term because they didn't want to call their compact MP5K the MP5 Kurz Kurz as far as I can tell. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:14, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:On the subject of the M4: the article mentions that the handguard isn't free floating like Drebin says. However, I'm pretty sure the rail is carbine length KAC URX which is free floating. Also, the MP5K-PDW isn't a compact MP5K; it's an MP5K with a stock added. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 09:01, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Look at the shot of Snake firing the M4 into the camera and you can see there's a circular cap on the front of the rail handguard which contacts the barrel: a KAC URX doesn't have such a cap, which is why it's free-floating while this one isn't. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:42, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

PDW is indeed something of a term that is a bit too nebulous. I've even heard the term applied to the select-fire variant of the Mauser C96 being described as a PDW since it could mount a shoulder stock and used ammo that was "armour piercing." Still, the question I raised earlier on this page as to the point of mounting a free-floating handguard onto an M4A1 carbine remains--isn't a free-floating barrel mainly for sniper or designated marksmen weapons, not for CQB full-auto weapons? And wouldn't greater long-distance accuracy be achieved more simply by using a longer barrel or enhanced ammunition? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:With regard to free-float rails: there's more to it than just accuracy. Keeping the rails from contacting the barrel means that any accessories mounted on the weapon will be affected less by the vibrations that occur during firing. This helps keep vertical grips and the like from coming loose, and any optics/lasers/IR designators mounted on the forearm will have an easier time retaining their zero. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:12, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

Well, that does make a bit more sense, but it still sounds like the sort of thing a National Army wouldn't issue--though it wouldn't be out of place among civilians or Private Military Contractors. Don't National Armies train for accurate semiautomatic fire whenever possible from anything that isn't an LMG, and if you fire enough fully-automatic rounds to affect the zero of accessories mounted on the handguard, doesn't that mean you're doing something wrong? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== XM8 Compact ==

Why is the XM8 Compact under the SMG/PDW section? PDW or not, 5.56x45mm should go to the Assault rifles. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I was considering moving it to go with the Patriot. I'll do that tomorrow assuming someone doesn't beat me to it, and I'll remove "PDW" from the other heading since it's such a vague, useless class of weapons that seems to include everything gun company marketing departments feel like including from SMGs firing pistol rounds to compact assault rifles. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm not sure about that; I think PDW is still useful to describe select-fire SCHV (small caliber, high velocity) two-handed firearms using proprietary rounds purpose-built for armour-piercing properties, like the 5.7x28mm, the 4.6x30mm, the 6.5x25mm, etc. that aren't (machine) pistols. Having said that, I would agree about how the label can be abused (the MP5K-PDW should have just received an "A" designation such as the MP5KA6 or the like). Still, I have to wonder if Akiba was given the XM8 Compact to show that Meryl "wears the pants" in their relationship--at a 9-inch barrel length, the XM8 (ultra)compact carbine is shorter than Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle, which is 10 inches long.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:08, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:The trouble I have with the PDW label is either (a) it just means SMG so there's no point including it or (b) it includes all the stupid things that are called PDWs but aren't SMGs. Sure, the SCHV rounds aren't all used by pistols so not all PDWs are ''technically'' SMGs, but all PDW rounds are dimensioned like pistol cartridges and most have pistols designed and / or manufactured to shoot them anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing is, if you really want to be pedantic, an SMG is really just a select-fire pistol-caliber carbine. In my view the PDW label is still useful for a narrower class of weapons than most users of the label think, and should only be used if the weapon meets all of the following characteristics.

*Proprietary PDW rounds are designed from the ground up as armour-piercing rounds (piercing Level IIIA ballistic armour or lower), and resemble miniaturized assault rifle ammunition (by virtue of its dimensions and spitzer shape) rather than traditional pistol ammunition. So by this definition the PP-2000 would not be a PDW since it's still using 9x19mm rounds, just in an armour-piercing configuration.
*A stock and foregrip must be present on the weapon for it to be considered a PDW, since both simplify aiming (which is very important in a CQB situation). So a select-fire Five-seveN or C96 are still not PDWs (instead, they are just armour-piercing machine pistols) since it lacks the ability to have both of those features. An MP5K PDW has both a stock and foregrip but doesn't meet the first requirement, and is therefore just a compact SMG with a folding stock and small foregrip.
*A true PDW must have select-fire or fully-automatic fire capability, otherwise it just becomes a fancy carbine like the PS90.

You have to admit that PDW is a more convenient acronym than something like SCHV SMG or the like. We could just go with something like "AP (armour-piercing) SMG" but that would bring stuff like the PP-2000 back into the mix. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:27, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

::Actually, an SMG is a super-light machine gun firing a pistol round: remember the category comes from the first world war before the concept of an intermediate round even existed. And the problem is most users of the label include most companies that say their weapons are PDWs; there's such a huge number of bad examples and so few good ones that it isn't really worth using it, IMO. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

:My google-fu's rather weak right now, but aside from H&K marketing derivatives of the MP5 and XM8 as PDWs I don't know of companies that are marketing SMGs or compact assault rifles with the PDW label, when in fact they don't meet the requirements I outlined earlier. Maybe you could point me in the right direction? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 23:32, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::Wikipedia says the Jatimatic was marketed as a PDW back when HK invented the term, and since the 5.7mm has realised its friends would still like it if it came out as a pistol round anything that fires that is basically a subgun in the normal sense of the term. Magpul's PDR Shirow-gun fires a full-sized 5.56mm, the Chinese QCW-05 fires the 5.8x21mm pistol round, the VBR-Belgium PDW fires the 7.92x24mm pistol round...It's fair to say most things called PDWs don't qualify in the strictest sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:00, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:The "Shirow-gun"? And here I was thinking firearms designed for Ghost in the Shell at least made some sense, even if their service pistol caliber choice was a little iffy on the stopping power side (BTW, the Seburo Firearms page should not have been removed from this wiki). PDW rounds fired out of pistols seem a little iffy to me as well; if HK had to cancel its UCP for "inadequate ballistics in a pistol platform," what makes the Five-seveN/QSZ-92/VBR 7.92 Glock that much better? In any case, the Magpul PDR is just a compact bullpup carbine in 5.56mm NATO, and the 5.8x21mm round (how is this better than the 5.7x28mm round again?) is a miniaturized version of the Chinese 5.8x42mm assault rifle round, which makes it a PDW round. Maybe we could compromise and call them "CQDWs" for "Close Quarters Defensive Weapons" to show how they are meant to be stowed in "Close Quarters" and are most effective in CQB range as well, given their shorter cases compared to full-size assault rifle rounds? Making a poll on the forum asking whether or not the PDW label should be expunged from the site might be useful as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:23, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Again, though, I don't really see the point of using a label that's just going to cause a lot of confusion with not-examples and pseudo-examples. Anything that is categorised as a PDW in the strictest sense is basically an SMG firing AP ammunition. Not using the term rules out all the various pistols and assault rifles that would otherwise sneak into the SMG heading through the vague backdoor marked "PDW." It's sorta like having a category called "Dogs / mammals" next to one saying "cats" and expecting cats to not end up in the dog category. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:I lol'ed at what you said about Akiba and Meryl. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:15, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

Yep, then Akiba tries to "man up" by getting the Barrett M82A2, but then finds he can't "last long." He definitely would have lasted longer if he had gotten something capable of "sustained fire" instead, like the Mk. 46 Mod. 0 coupled with an FN P90 of his own, so either he or Meryl could use the LMG for covering fire while the other goes out to loot P90 magazines from dead FROG troopers and keep wreaking merry hell as long as possible. But no, Kojima had to saddle Akiba with an incredibly impractical Barrett M82A2 (only really useful for killing larger Gekko drones and annoying unmanned Metal Gear RAYs), his old XM8 Compact and a GSR. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:23, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== The MAC-10 in this game ==

Is it an open bolt (the original version) or a closed bolt version? An open bolt version wouldn't need charging after reloading, and wouldn't need to be racked unless the trigger was held down after the last round fired (after which you'd just pull it back to ready the weapon). If the MAC-10 in this game were a closed bolt version, then you would need rack the bolt if you were loading from empty and would indeed eject a round if one were still in the chamber if you racked the bolt. If Old Snake is ejecting a round from the MAC-10 after a mid-magazine reload, then wouldn't it be a closed version? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:27, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'd have to check. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:09, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Another thing you might want to examine is the M60E4; it's still an open bolt weapon last I checked (partly because open bolt weapons run cooler than closed bolt ones, an advantage on an LMG since it means you don't have to change barrels as often). Also, is the M60E4 supposed to be the "very latest model" that the rebel in the Middle Eastern Militia Safe House was boasting about? It would make more sense than an HK21E, since some PMC machine gunners use the M60E4 and it is "the very latest model" of its kind. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:45, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Again, I'll check. In the latter case, I imagine the "very latest model" was probably supposed to be the XM8 LMG: it's the only version missing from the final game. Perhaps they gave the guy the HK21 instead because their playtesters would always kill him to get themselves a free 5.56mm machine gun with a built-in optic. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:30, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Please do. Your considerable efforts on this page are much appreciated. But it wouldn't be the first time a game has used closed bolt versions of weapons that were originally open bolt; Rainbow Six Vegas 2 uses a closed bolt version of the MAC-11 machine pistol, for instance. And the XM8 LMG was always a strange one to me; while the other variants had good advantages for reliability and ease of use for their roles (since their sights didn't need zeroing, had more durable/reliable parts, along with infrared laser pointer/illuminators built into the sight), the XM8 LMG does not have a quick-swap barrel (unlike the M249, for instance) and is a closed bolt weapon which would make its heat buildup more problematic, despite the tougher barrel. In any case, all the game devs had to do to make the XM8 LMG would be to stick a Beta C-mag on the Marksman version of the XM8, since you can't use bipods in this game. The XM8 LMG would have been great in Johnathan's hands, and the standard carbine would then be given to Akiba. Even so, giving that boastful rebel an M60E4 would still require that you spend the money for accessories on a new game, so it wouldn't be as imbalanced as an XM8 LMG.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:34, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== The "PMCs love the (M4)" line ==

In my edit I did NOT specify which voice track language I was referring to (for all I know, that line could also have been in the original JP version). What I was commenting on was how the recording for that scene was probably done before the decision was made to have the PMC guys use the SCAR-H rather than have them actually use the M4-type carbines (as seen in the preview images someone posted earlier). While not wrong to begin with, the fact that they didn't go back to re-do that scene based on the new weapon assignment leave me scratching my head. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 01:26, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, but it's hardly the only strange mistake made in that scene; Drebin also says it has a free-floating barrel even though there's clearly a circular end cap connecting the rail handguard to the barrel, and also that the US Army uses it even though in-game they don't. It's hard to say if it's something that used to be true, a mistake, or just Drebin playing salesman and hoping Snake doesn't notice the more obvious BS in his pitch. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

== Just found out something interesting... ==

HD remakes of all the previous games are apparently being released on PSN and possibly Live in November, so I'll hold out for them before screencapping those pages. Apparently they're going to sling in ''Peace Walker'' for PS3, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:15, 9 July 2011 (CDT

:Are they going to retexture MGS2 and MGS3 for this collection? I hope so, because MGS2 is horribly bland with its textures, far more than MGS3 was. I'd do MGS2 myself, I don't have a capture card and the PC version I have is not well programmed for PC graphics cards, so you often end up with a lot of graphical errors. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 11:48, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

::From the sounds of things it's going to be retextured MGS2, retextured MGS3 and probably retextured Twin Snakes running in the MGS4 engine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:02, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

:::That sounds cool. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

Last I heard it was only for the X Box 360. Good news that it's being released on the PS3 as well. Might mean that we're going to see it on the PC (fingers crossed). --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:10, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

== Drebins Camo Trousers ==
hi guys, wondering if anyone can tell me that make/pattern drebins trousers are, i mean obviously they are desert but im not sure what brand.

[http://images.wikia.com/metalgear/images/c/ca/DrebinMGS4.jpg] --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 10:48, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

Pattern would be something like "desert tiger stripe" and there's a similar-looking set of trousers [http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/original_desert_tiger_stripe.htm here]. His look to be bleached a bit lighter or something, but it's the same basic pattern. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:04, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

== A minor controversy over the Operator suicide scene ==

The English voice actor of Old Snake, David Hayter, caused a minor controversy among gaming journalists and the MGS fandom when he said he [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rH-cYUiogI didn't find Old Snake's reluctance to commit suicide to be believable]. Now that the relevant screenshot is in this wiki entry, I thought it deserved some explanation. In David Hayter's words, he says ''". . . Snake would put a bullet in, and put [the gun] in his mouth and just pop himself, like he's killed--he's killed how many countless thousands of people, and he's going to shake because he's going to kill himself? I didn't agree with that at all and begged them to change it . . . ."'' --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:05, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:Hm, I don't really buy that. He's killed ''other'' people, sure, but confronting the end of your own existence and what might come next isn't going to be easy unless you're incredibly secure in your convictions as to what will happen (and Snake hardly strikes me as devoutly religious) or too stupid to comprehend that's what you're doing. It's not like it's a spur of the moment "I have to do this" thing, after all. Mind you, I really don't think we needed to see him going down on the Operator for quite as long as he did. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:45, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

Even so, I think he's used to fearlessly facing death, even if it's virtually certain (such as when he faced Metal Gear REX before Grey Fox intervened in MGS1, or during his hopeless duel with Fortune in MGS2). And "going down on the Operator"--that's a nice wordplay. Still, I think it's a little disappointing how what comes next is available at any difficulty--it would be more of an incentive to play on harder difficulties if you only got the complete scene after doing something such as completing the Boss Extreme difficulty or getting a Big Boss emblem. Otherwise, you'd only see:

*Old Snake smoking a last cig before fading to black and the last gunshot after finishing Liquid Easy.
*The scene where he sucks his gun off (again fading to black with the last gunshot) after finishing Solid Normal.
*A short cut after the final gunshot showing the gun and its smoking barrel in Old Snake's gnarled hand, fading to black after finishing Big Boss Hard.
*And the complete ending scene after finishing The Boss Extreme.

It would also have been a nice touch if you got to see the ghostly forms of all the people you killed throughout the game or the people Old Snake couldn't save (which means, at a minimum, Liquid Ocelot, Naomi and Big Mama) surrounding Old Snake in the cemetery as he puts the gun in his mouth, as he will join them in death very soon. Such a scene would be a nice reference to the Sorrow's River in MGS3. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:42, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

*I don't know, facing almost certain death is different to facing ''actual'' certain death, especially when it's for something as abstract as the human race rather than something as concrete as someone right in front of you. Also, in both those cases his other option was being killed by the thing he was facing, so he ''didn't'' pick the "certain death" option. Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth, he's probably worried that shooting himself would just make the bullet ricochet off his superior genes, kill the person who was ''actually'' going to cure the disease and overpenetrate to also kill the world's most adorable kitten which was behind that guy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:18, 31 July 2011 (CDT)

== Operator ==

I think Snake's main 1911 is closer to a TRP Operator than a standard MC Operator. It has a Target cut rear sight, full length guide rod, extended magazine well and front strap checkering. Standard MEUSOC 1911's like the MC Operator and the Kimber Warrior don't have these features. I know it's not a huge difference but I think it may be worth mentioning. ~ACE

The American

2011-07-30T01:47:34Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Ruger Mini-14 */

[[Image:The-American-Movie-Poster.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''The American'' (2010)]]

'''The American''' is a thriller directed by Anton Corbijn and starring [[George Clooney]] as Jack, a weary and aging American assassin who goes to Italy for an assignment. While there he becomes entangled with a woman, and begins to wonder about his contract, his lover and his controller.
The film is based on Martin Booth's novel ''A Very Private Gentleman'', published in 1990.

'''The following weapons were used in the film ''The American:'''''

__TOC__ 

==Ruger Mini-14==
Jack ([[George Clooney]]) spends much of the film customizing and sighting a [[Ruger Mini-14]] with a hand-made suppressor he manufactures from various car parts. He also makes a custom case for it. He refers to the gun as a Ruger M14, which is a slight goof since the M14 is a completely different gun. Mathilde ([[Thekla Reuten]]), the customer, also asks the gun's muzzle velocity, to which Jack states "about 360 miles an hour". This is a goof since muzzle velocities are measured in feet, or meters, per second. It wouldn't be that bad if his statement didn't translate into 528 feet per second; not even near the muzzle velocity of a real .223 round.
[[Image:Mini14gb-f.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Stainless Steel Ruger Mini-14 GB-F ("Government Barrel, Folding Stock") - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:AmerRuger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jack ([[George Clooney]]) assembles the Mini-14, after he had ordered a custom barrel to fit in the gun.]]
[[Image:AmericanRuger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jack with the newly-assembled Mini-14.]]
[[Image:American-RugerMini14-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jack with his Ruger Mini-14 in a production still.]]
[[Image:Amer8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack ([[George Clooney]]) sights in the rifle he is preparing for the client, the rifle is a standard Ruger Mini-14 (pre 2005 style) with a Ruger Factory Folding Stock - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Amer1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde ([[Thekla Reuten]]) tests the Ruger Mini-14.]]
[[Image:AmerMini14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde adjusts the scope, after test-firing. Her shots were a bit off to the left and for some reason turning the elevation knob instead of the windage remedies this.]]
[[Image:AmerRugerMini14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack fires the gun next to Mathilde, at her request, as she wants to test the suppressor.]]
[[Image:AmerMini14_2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde prepares to use the Mini-14.]]
[[Image:AmerRugerCustomCase.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The custom padded case Jack makes for the Mini-14.]]

==Walther PPK==
Jack ([[George Clooney]]) uses a 7.65 mm [[Walther PPK]] as his personal sidearm, both suppressed and unsuppressed, throughout the whole film.
[[Image:WaltherPPKSuppressed.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Walther PPK with black grips and a sound suppressor - .380 ACP aka 9x17 mm Kurz]]
[[Image:AmericanPPK.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack's PPK lying next to his bed.]]
[[Image:Amer6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack's Walther PPK in the machine tool area where he displays his skill with machining parts.]]
[[Image:AmerPPK.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack affixes a suppressor onto his gun.]]
[[Image:Amer4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack aims his PPK at a Swedish assassin.]]
[[Image:AmericanPPK2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack fires the gun.]]
[[Image:AmerPPK2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack pulls out his PPK when on a picnic with Clara ([[Violante Placido]]). In this shot the gun's markings are seen quite clearly.]]
[[Image:AmerPPK3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack aims his gun.]]

==SIG-Sauer P230==
Mathilde ([[Thekla Reuten]]) pulls a [[SIG-Sauer P230]] from her purse, when she meets with Jack ([[George Clooney]]). She never gets a chance to use it.
[[Image:SigP230SS.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG-Sauer P230 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 ACP (9mm kurz). Built between 1977-1996.]]
[[Image:AmerP230.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde releases the magazine of the gun.]]
[[Image:AmerP230_2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde checks the magazine.]]
[[Image:Amer5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde chambers the gun.]]
[[Image:AmerP230_3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

==Beretta 92FS==
A swedish assassin is briefly seen chambering a [[Beretta 92FS]] in Dalarna, Sweden in the beginning of the film.
Another swedish assassin is also seen with a suppressed [[Beretta 92FS]] in Rome.
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:AmerBeretta.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An assassin with a Beretta.]]
[[Image:Amer2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A young swedish assassin ([[Samuli Vauramo]]) with a Beretta in Rome.]]
[[Image:AmerBeretta2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The young assassin's Beretta gets stuck in his car.]]

==Beretta 950 Jetfire==
Jack finds a [[Beretta 950 Jetfire|Beretta Jetfire]] from Clara's purse, which she keeps for self-defense.
[[Image:Beretta950BSJetfire.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|Beretta 950BS (Post 1968) Jetfire - .25 ACP. This has the thumb safety that the pre-1968 models do not. This is the model used in this film.]]
[[Image:AmerJetfire.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack finds Clara's Jetfire.]]

==Single Action Army==
A [[Colt Single Action Army]] can also be seen during the scene in the bar when the tv is on. We can briefly see one of the main characters of [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], Frank ([[Henry Fonda]]), fire a Single Action Army revolver.
[[Image:Colt_saa4.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Single Action Army - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:AmerOUATITW.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Single Action Army revolver being fired on tv.]]

==Unknown rifle==
A swedish assassin uses an unknown rifle in the beginning of the film in Dalarna, Sweden. He uses it to fire at Jack and Ingrid, his lover. The rifle is never fully seen, but it has a custom winter camouflage on it. We can see a glimpse of it when the assassin goes down as Jack shoots him with his Walther PPK. Perhaps this is a [[Remington 700]]?
[[Image:AmericanRifleUnknown.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The assassin with an unknown rifle circled in red.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:Espionage]]

The American

2011-07-30T01:44:51Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Ruger Mini-14 */

[[Image:The-American-Movie-Poster.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''The American'' (2010)]]

'''The American''' is a thriller directed by Anton Corbijn and starring [[George Clooney]] as Jack, a weary and aging American assassin who goes to Italy for an assignment. While there he becomes entangled with a woman, and begins to wonder about his contract, his lover and his controller.
The film is based on Martin Booth's novel ''A Very Private Gentleman'', published in 1990.

'''The following weapons were used in the film ''The American:'''''

__TOC__ 

==Ruger Mini-14==
Jack ([[George Clooney]]) spends much of the film customizing and sighting a [[Ruger Mini-14]] with a hand-made suppressor he manufactures from various car parts. He also makes a custom case for it. He refers to the gun as a Ruger M14, which is a slight goof since the M14 is a completely different gun. Mathilde ([[Thekla Reuten]]), the customer, also asks the gun's muzzle velocity, to which Jack states "about 360 miles an hour". This is a goof since muzzle velocities are measured in feet, or meters, per second. It wouldn't be that bad if his statement didn't translate into 528 feet per second; not even near the muzzle velocity of a real .223 round.
[[Image:Mini14gb-f.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Stainless Steel Ruger Mini-14 GB-F ("Government Barrel, Folding Stock") - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:AmerRuger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jack ([[George Clooney]]) assembles the Mini-14, after he had ordered a custom barrel to fit in the gun.]]
[[Image:AmericanRuger.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jack with the newly-assembled Mini-14.]]
[[Image:American-RugerMini14-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jack with his Ruger Mini-14 in a production still.]]
[[Image:Amer8.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack ([[George Clooney]]) sights in the rifle he is preparing for the client, the rifle is a standard Ruger Mini-14 (pre 2005 style) with a Ruger Factory Folding Stock - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Amer1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde ([[Thekla Reuten]]) tests the Ruger Mini-14.]]
[[Image:AmerMini14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde adjusts the scope, after test-firing. Her shots were a bit off to the left and somehow turning the elevation knob remedies this.]]
[[Image:AmerRugerMini14.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack fires the gun next to Mathilde, at her request, as she wants to test the suppressor.]]
[[Image:AmerMini14_2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde prepares to use the Mini-14.]]
[[Image:AmerRugerCustomCase.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The custom padded case Jack makes for the Mini-14.]]

==Walther PPK==
Jack ([[George Clooney]]) uses a 7.65 mm [[Walther PPK]] as his personal sidearm, both suppressed and unsuppressed, throughout the whole film.
[[Image:WaltherPPKSuppressed.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Walther PPK with black grips and a sound suppressor - .380 ACP aka 9x17 mm Kurz]]
[[Image:AmericanPPK.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack's PPK lying next to his bed.]]
[[Image:Amer6.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack's Walther PPK in the machine tool area where he displays his skill with machining parts.]]
[[Image:AmerPPK.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack affixes a suppressor onto his gun.]]
[[Image:Amer4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack aims his PPK at a Swedish assassin.]]
[[Image:AmericanPPK2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack fires the gun.]]
[[Image:AmerPPK2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack pulls out his PPK when on a picnic with Clara ([[Violante Placido]]). In this shot the gun's markings are seen quite clearly.]]
[[Image:AmerPPK3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack aims his gun.]]

==SIG-Sauer P230==
Mathilde ([[Thekla Reuten]]) pulls a [[SIG-Sauer P230]] from her purse, when she meets with Jack ([[George Clooney]]). She never gets a chance to use it.
[[Image:SigP230SS.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG-Sauer P230 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 ACP (9mm kurz). Built between 1977-1996.]]
[[Image:AmerP230.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde releases the magazine of the gun.]]
[[Image:AmerP230_2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde checks the magazine.]]
[[Image:Amer5.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mathilde chambers the gun.]]
[[Image:AmerP230_3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

==Beretta 92FS==
A swedish assassin is briefly seen chambering a [[Beretta 92FS]] in Dalarna, Sweden in the beginning of the film.
Another swedish assassin is also seen with a suppressed [[Beretta 92FS]] in Rome.
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:AmerBeretta.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An assassin with a Beretta.]]
[[Image:Amer2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A young swedish assassin ([[Samuli Vauramo]]) with a Beretta in Rome.]]
[[Image:AmerBeretta2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The young assassin's Beretta gets stuck in his car.]]

==Beretta 950 Jetfire==
Jack finds a [[Beretta 950 Jetfire|Beretta Jetfire]] from Clara's purse, which she keeps for self-defense.
[[Image:Beretta950BSJetfire.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|Beretta 950BS (Post 1968) Jetfire - .25 ACP. This has the thumb safety that the pre-1968 models do not. This is the model used in this film.]]
[[Image:AmerJetfire.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Jack finds Clara's Jetfire.]]

==Single Action Army==
A [[Colt Single Action Army]] can also be seen during the scene in the bar when the tv is on. We can briefly see one of the main characters of [[Once Upon a Time in the West]], Frank ([[Henry Fonda]]), fire a Single Action Army revolver.
[[Image:Colt_saa4.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Single Action Army - .45 Long Colt]]
[[Image:AmerOUATITW.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Single Action Army revolver being fired on tv.]]

==Unknown rifle==
A swedish assassin uses an unknown rifle in the beginning of the film in Dalarna, Sweden. He uses it to fire at Jack and Ingrid, his lover. The rifle is never fully seen, but it has a custom winter camouflage on it. We can see a glimpse of it when the assassin goes down as Jack shoots him with his Walther PPK. Perhaps this is a [[Remington 700]]?
[[Image:AmericanRifleUnknown.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The assassin with an unknown rifle circled in red.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Drama]]
[[Category:Espionage]]

Talk:Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

2011-07-15T22:52:46Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Getting soft in old age? */

That's a Webley Mk.VI if anything - the Mk.VI had the square butt and 6" barrel, the Mk.IV had a 4" barrel and bird's head grip.

If you look closely at the weapon the warhead is clearly that of the RPG-2...the 7's predecessor. However I will admit the launcher itself has been modified to look like a 7's launcher with the addition of the rear blast cone as opposed to the 2's straight pipe configuration.

:Just saw the movie 2 nights ago. The launcher is definitely a -7, and more specifically, the Chinese Type 69 version (all of the "Russian" weapons in this movie are actually Chinese copies, including the Tokarevs, the AKs, and the RPG). However, it looks like the rocket used in the launcher (which would have been inert and non-functional, as is customary in cinema) is the PG-2, which only the RPG-2 can fire. It's more likely they'd use the wrong rocket (which is easier to do) than visually modify the launcher. But that's not an RPG-2, and not just because of the cone in the back; you can tell the body of the launcher and everything else are completely unlike that of the -2. That would be a hell of a modification.

I don't know who changed the M2 Carbine into an M1A1 Carbine but that isn't right. While being fitted with a 30 round mag doesn't make it an M2, it would be an M1 not an M1A1. An M1A1 is the paratrooper folding stock model. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

What is İrina Spalko's sword?

The KGB? agents pulling their Tokarevs on Mutt are clearly carrying either real Russian TT-30 or TT-33s OR more likely Polish Wz48s as they are more common in the states. (The serration pattern on the slide matches Russian or Polish guns.) They are also fully cocked with fingers on the triggers. Eek!

I'm dubious that the "Used in the film" props were used in the film. All of the M1 Carbines seen in the film stills have bayonet mounts, which were added after WW2, however the framed prop does not. - [[User:Rugerlvr|Rugerlvr]]

== Getting soft in old age? ==

Indy does not fire one shot in anger the entire movie, except some rocket. How can this be?

:"Directed by Steven Spielberg," that's how. You know, the modern one who airbrushed the guns out of ''ET'' rather than the old one who let Indy remember he'd bought a gun to a swordfight. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:12, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

::Too right mate. What is with the whimpification of all things?

:::In real life you shouldn't fire a gun in anger, that's just stupid, if someone fired a gun in anger around me I would take it away from them. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:36, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

::::Movie.

Talk:Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

2011-07-14T21:22:09Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Realization */

== Realization ==

Does anybody else think that the two Indiana Jones's where he shoots a lot more people (Raiders and Crusade) are much better than the two where he hardly shoots anybody (Temple and Skull)? I guess the story could have something to do with it too.

Talk:Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

2011-07-14T21:19:29Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Getting soft in old age? */

Talk:Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

2011-07-14T21:19:04Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Getting soft in old age? */

That's a Webley Mk.VI if anything - the Mk.VI had the square butt and 6" barrel, the Mk.IV had a 4" barrel and bird's head grip.

If you look closely at the weapon the warhead is clearly that of the RPG-2...the 7's predecessor. However I will admit the launcher itself has been modified to look like a 7's launcher with the addition of the rear blast cone as opposed to the 2's straight pipe configuration.

:Just saw the movie 2 nights ago. The launcher is definitely a -7, and more specifically, the Chinese Type 69 version (all of the "Russian" weapons in this movie are actually Chinese copies, including the Tokarevs, the AKs, and the RPG). However, it looks like the rocket used in the launcher (which would have been inert and non-functional, as is customary in cinema) is the PG-2, which only the RPG-2 can fire. It's more likely they'd use the wrong rocket (which is easier to do) than visually modify the launcher. But that's not an RPG-2, and not just because of the cone in the back; you can tell the body of the launcher and everything else are completely unlike that of the -2. That would be a hell of a modification.

I don't know who changed the M2 Carbine into an M1A1 Carbine but that isn't right. While being fitted with a 30 round mag doesn't make it an M2, it would be an M1 not an M1A1. An M1A1 is the paratrooper folding stock model. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

What is İrina Spalko's sword?

The KGB? agents pulling their Tokarevs on Mutt are clearly carrying either real Russian TT-30 or TT-33s OR more likely Polish Wz48s as they are more common in the states. (The serration pattern on the slide matches Russian or Polish guns.) They are also fully cocked with fingers on the triggers. Eek!

I'm dubious that the "Used in the film" props were used in the film. All of the M1 Carbines seen in the film stills have bayonet mounts, which were added after WW2, however the framed prop does not. - [[User:Rugerlvr|Rugerlvr]]

== Getting soft in old age? ==

Indy does not fire one shot in anger the entire movie, except some rocket. How can this be?

:"Directed by Steven Spielberg," that's how. You know, the modern one who airbrushed the guns out of ''ET'' rather than the old one who let Indy remember he'd bought a gun to a swordfight. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:12, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

:Too right mate. What is with the whimpification of all things?

Talk:Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

2011-07-14T21:06:24Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Getting soft in old age? */ new section

Talk:Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

2011-07-12T20:18:39Z

Acepeacemaker: Realization

Talk:Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

2011-07-12T20:15:28Z

Acepeacemaker: /* Hands */ new section

==Indy==
Indiana Jones REALLY needs to start carrying more than one gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:21, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

=== M43 Field Cap ===

Another anachronism besides of the use of MP-40's is the woman wearing what looks like an M-43 Field Cap in the scene where the man is holding the Walther PPK. [[User:Harleyguy|Harleyguy]] 29 May 2010 20:36

== Hands ==

Does anybody else think this is the best movie ever made and will never be topped or is it just me?